Phrag. bessae quandry

abax · Jan 25, 2014

I bought three bessae that looked a bit rough, but are practice plants for
me. They have not been fertilized by me, they're in their original pots
and mix and sitting in rain water. All three began growing new leaves and
one has a new growth. All new growth is turning a streaky brown. I've
tested my rain water and it's neutral to very, very slightly acid. At this
point, I'm confused. It was my understanding that bessae needed
to have the pot sitting in water and not allowed to dry out at all. Also to
withhold fertilizer at least for the winter months. Is it possible that a
drench with Cleary's could have caused the discoloration. The new leaves
and new growth are not mushy wet, just streaky brown and rather alarming. This isn't a good start to my Phrag. learning curve. Suggestions?

John M · Jan 25, 2014

I don't grow besseae in a puddle. I just water often. Although, this winter, I've watered much less and some pots have dried out. The plants bounce back quickly once they are rewetted again. I don't know Cleary's...never used it. But, when applying any chemical, there is always a chance of doing damage for a number of different reasons. A few clear photos of the problem would be a great help. It's almost impossible to diagnose a problem accurately and suggest the correct remedy, without ever seeing the patient.

cnycharles · Jan 25, 2014

If you have high humidity it may not be necessary to grow in water. Low humidity makes that seem more necessary; standing in water you may need more air movement. I had an ebb flow set up in last apartment for couple phrags and they looked really better. But not standing all day in water

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NYEric · Jan 25, 2014

Sorry, I find besseae can be in S/H only using S/H media with air spaces and lots of air movement. Otherwise I am growing them wet but not sitting in water. The besseae hybrids are more tolerant.

If you post a photo I'm sure it would show rot. If so, it can be snipped off and the open cut treated w/ Captan powder. Good luck.

ehanes7612 · Jan 25, 2014

I hope i didn't tell you to grow those in water...i tried standing water a few months last year with my mix (at that time bark and perlite) and they didnt like it..new growths with brown tips. I only grow with a bit of sphagnum now in bark and perlite and they love it..they may get a little wet feet but only the water stuck in between the bottom of the pot and the table which dries out after a day. I also run the greenhouse at 50-60 % humidity during the day and 70 to 80 at night..half of the plants that I received ( as part of the besseae I sold) were almost dead (much worse off than the ones I sold) and they are making a great come back

orchideya · Jan 25, 2014

Sorry for your besseae Angela.
I am taking my besseae from puddle now. I didn't have any problems yet, but don't want to take chances.
Hope yours will clear up.

abax · Jan 25, 2014

I'll try to take some photos, but the weather here is near blizzard conditions
for KY. My humidity is near 80%-90% most of the time and I think the
removal from standing water is probably the best idea. I do have excellent
air flow and I can't think of anything else that could be the problem.

No, Ed, this is not a problem that you created nor did you recommend
the puddle. I managed this situation all on my own. Part of the learning
curve that I have to figure out.

Thank you all sooo much. The forum is an slipper- saver for me!

Trudged a whole 130' in the snow and the bessae are now out of the standing rainwater.
I snipped off the brown growth with fired pruners and will hope for the best. Orchideya,
we've learned something today!

John M · Jan 25, 2014

Angela, I find that besseae is definitely more tempermental than it's hybrids. Although, at the same time, even if you lose the entire leaf fan of a single fan plant, the roots and rhizome will usually sprout a nice, new growth. So, they are simply more of a challenge at all times, as compared to hybrids; but, they can be grown well, once you find that "sweet spot" in terms of culture in your conditions. However, I also find that stressed plants will get ugly, dry, brown spotting which progresses to entire brown areas of dead tissue on the new growth. It's not a rot. It's a physiological problem. It can't be cured with Cleary's or anything else. It can be stopped with improved culture and less stress on the plant. So, you need to identify and stop the stress. In my case, no matter what time of year it is, I find that repotting into fresh mix is all that it takes to kickstart a plant into "happy mode". Plants that are really in bad shape go into VERY loose, NZ sphagnum moss (which has been pre-soaked and the excess water squeezed out) and are kept covered; but, with venting to allow fresh air in slowly. It takes time; but, they usually recover with this treatment.

Rick · Jan 26, 2014

NYEric said:
Sorry, I find besseae can be in S/H only using S/H media with air spaces and lots of air movement. Otherwise I am growing them wet but not sitting in water.

I agree with Eric.

If you still have in a dead bark mix with standing water, you will have a big rotting mess that is not conducive to good root growth. And if the previous owner fertilized, then that old mix is already loaded up in K salts.

I get good besseae results with lots of water, but in open baskets with lots of heavy gravel. Not a dense organic mix.

abax · Jan 26, 2014

I may have found and solved the bessae problem by removing the standing
water and repotting into clay pots. Two had good roots and one had one
little root that looked healthy. Since the plants were obviously stressed, I
used the same mix as the plants arrived and added a bit of Orchiata here and there. Now it's just a waiting game to see if any other problems
develop.

Ed, I should have known better than to leave any plant in plastic pots
in my greenhouse. *smacking head with hand*

KyushuCalanthe · Jan 26, 2014

I wonder if using the "double pot cooler" method I use for my Cyps would help. The roots are kept cool and moist continuously, all the while remaining well aerated.

abax · Jan 27, 2014

You read my mind Botany Boy! I'm going to let the medium dry out just
a bit and then double pot as you suggested. However, I do think the clay
pots "respirate" sufficiently with ceiling fans and a small muffin fan. The
Phrags. are very close to the south wall of my greenhouse and do get some
convection cooling. Night temps. are holding very close to 58F at the
moment.

eaborne · Jan 30, 2014

Angela, I pot most of my besseae and cooler growing phrag. species in "phrag. cool pots" purchased from The Orchid Gallery.
http://theorchidgallery.net/index.html
I would pot them in an open mix so there is lots of air and water them to keep the medium from drying out. I find it does wonders by opening up the mix for the "problem" plants. I mainly use these pots to push the envelope with temperatures here in Louisiana, but the wicking of these pots is far greater than that of regular clay pots giving you a little more evaporation and air flow around the roots.

abax · Jan 30, 2014

Very nice pot. I think I'll buy a few for testing. Thank you, Eron.

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