# Improving on MSU/rain mix with growstones



## monocotman (Feb 29, 2016)

Hi,
Another penny in the fountain of complexity that is slipper orchid culture.
Just a heads up to show a real improvement in growth seen this year in the phrags when they were grown in the vicinity of growstones.
Culture so far consists of rain water and rain mix at low rates.
First up is the MDC that I've shown recently.
This was the first Phrag to come into contact with growstones. It has been growing in a tray of water together with a Phrag planted in 100% growstones for most of 2015. The Phrag in growstones did not like it and lost several roots but the MDC loved it! 
From growing small growths slowly it went to large/huge in a year.
This is the plant currently. Four spikes with branches plus two other smaller growths.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/i43Q0b
https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/gvDD4h

So following on from this in September last year I potted a Suzanne Decker into a mix of leca and growstones after seeing this recommended on the orchid web site.
This is the plant now after 5 months growth.
The two new growths have matured and are sending up flowering shoots. Last year they flowered in June so these two have taken about 9 months to develop.
Growth is good but not 'great'. Not bad for a newly repotted plant.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/747Hy0

However the plant sits in a tray of water together with two others that did very well.
The first is Don Wimber 'remembrance'. It is still recovering from rot a few years ago.This plant flowered for most of last summer. The new growth has matured in 8 months despite being twice as big as anything produced before. Some of the leaves are 3 inches across. The leaves are long and a lovely deep green.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/2sV3Y8
https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/h2d14N
https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/0K9919

The other Phrag to do well is La Hougette. This did OK for a few years and grew slowly. This year since the addition of growstones to the other pot in the tray it has grown really well. Four big growths. The new flowering stem has two branches, not something that this cross is known for.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/5b8fZN

This is the first flower.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/4cq4CJ

So it may all be a coincidence and due to other factors but the much improved leaf growth is almost certainly due to something given off by the growstones into the water in the tray and subsequently picked up by the other plants.
My guess would be calcium or silica.
Remember these plants are grown indoors in a kitchen without extra heating or lighting. They plants are never sprayed and grow in average house humidity. They just sit it trays of rain mix.
Any views?

David


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## Ryan Young (Feb 29, 2016)

Looks like component of growstone is 98% glass, 1.25% calcium carbonate (Foaming agent to expand the glass powder ) i would assume the calcium is slowly leaching out?

Just read a bit further, it leaches soluble Silicon. 

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## troy (Feb 29, 2016)

Would the leeching out raise ph?


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## gonewild (Feb 29, 2016)

troy said:


> Would the leeching out raise ph?



If it leaches calcium carbonate it will.


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## abax (Feb 29, 2016)

I'm not familiar with the term growstone. What does it
look like? I assume we're not talking about something like
hydroton or volcanic rock.


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## terryros (Mar 1, 2016)

Growstones is a proprietary name. It is made from recycled glass. I use it in a mix with milled sphagnum moss. It does cause an increased pH (the milled sphagnum moss mitigates this). It does give some increase in Ca and silicon availability. I add a modest amount of lemon juice to the fertilizer mix to help deal with the modest elevation in the pH of the pour through after fertilization. Growstones give good aeration and moisture availability


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## consettbay2003 (Mar 1, 2016)

Growstones need to be 'conditioned' before using them.


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## Ray (Mar 1, 2016)

The manufacturer claims to do that (at first, they didn't) via an acid treatment, but no matter what you do, it is temporary only.


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## terryros (Mar 1, 2016)

I agree that the pH raising effect of the Growstones appears to be persistent (at least over 1-2 years), but for me it has been modest when combined with milled sphagnum moss and has created a good opportunity to use the lemon juice (5-10 mL/gallon solution) and perhaps get some benefits from citrate (and maybe a couple of other things) in the juice (see other posts about citrate).


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## monocotman (Mar 1, 2016)

*Growstones*

Whatever the stones contain, it is extremely beneficial for phrag growth under my conditions.
The extra silicon or calcium carbonate produces a big improvement in growth on top of rain mix.
David


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## gonewild (Mar 1, 2016)

monocotman said:


> Whatever the stones contain, it is extremely beneficial for phrag growth under my conditions.
> The extra silicon or calcium carbonate produces a big improvement in growth on top of rain mix.
> David



That's why I say supplement the rain mix or msu fertilizers with calcium nitrate and magnesium to improve growth of phrags.... extra calcium.
If growstones achieve this then bravo!


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## monocotman (Mar 1, 2016)

Sounds like this may be the case!
David


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## dodidoki (Mar 1, 2016)

Slippers in glass??? Could you send me more info about this potting media? Or any pics? ( about media)


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## troy (Mar 1, 2016)

I put ag lime (E.B. stone ag lime) in with my phrags mix, very little, and am experiencing new growth to bloom in 1 year, I would guess growstones in phrag mix would be benificial


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## myxodex (Mar 1, 2016)

Thanks for the info, this is very interesting for me. I've been looking for a replacement for the diatomite/dynarock that is no longer available. I really liked that stuff. I currently use leca, but the stuff I have doesn't have much wicking action ... so I've had to add rockwoll into the mix and I don't particularly like rockwool either.

My guess is that by adding calcium carbonate to the bottle glass they might be producing a flux saturated glass (bottle glass is already high in the fluxing oxides Na2O and CaO). If this is the case it would be likely that a calcium silicate (wollastonite) microcrystalline phase developed on cooling of the melt. This could explain the persistent alkaline reaction. CaCO3 would be stripped out by the acid treatment more quickly than the wollastonite. In aqueous systems wollastonite slowly reacts with CO2 to produce CaCO3 and SiO2, so the CaCO3 is being regenerated ... moreover this reaction is exothermic ! Magnesium silicates undergo this dissolution too, but at a much slower rate than wollastonite. If the producers of growstone experimented with mixtures of CaCO3 and MgCO3 they could probably come up with a product that produces alkalinity at a slower, more convenient rate, and providing both Mg++ and Ca++. That is some really cool chemistry ... err .. maybe warm chemistry !

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ation_as_a_possible_CO2_sequestration_process


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## monocotman (Mar 1, 2016)

*Growstones*

Interesting stuff!
Pure growstones as a growing medium are probably too alkaline for phrags but 50:50 seems to work well for Suzanne Decker plus a few others I am trying in the mix of leca and growstones.
This includes a straight besseae and the hybrids Beauport, cardinale and Jersey.
The plants have only been in this mix for a few months so it is a bit early to say but I like the idea of a totally inert medium. So far so good.
Also the plants that have benefited so far were growing in a variety of mediums.
The MDC and Don Wimber were in bark. La Houegtte grows in rockwool.
David


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## Hien (Mar 2, 2016)

what is the secret for every plants in your collection to have such pristine green & gorgeously unblemished leaves ?


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## monocotman (Mar 2, 2016)

*Culture*

Hien,
There is no secret, I just grow the plants indoors in a west facing kitchen window.
There the environment is very constant compared to a greenhouse. Much less variation in temperature and light conditions, so little stress.
The temperature on a daily basis only varies by a few degrees, down to 10- 13c at night and up to 15-17c during the day in winter. In summer it will be a few degrees higher. It rarely gets over 25c. Blame the UK weather!
The plants just receive light through the window although they get moved out of the way if it gets hot in the summer.
So although the humidity is a bit low and the light is a bit low, the lack of stress more than makes up for these issues,
David


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## gego (Mar 2, 2016)

"They plants are never sprayed and grow in average house humidity. They just sit it trays of rain mix."

When you say never sprayed, you mean you don't fertilize? or you fertilize with solids?

Your plants really look good. Congrats. I like your idea of less stress. But these plants are definitely having some nutrients.


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## monocotman (Mar 2, 2016)

*Feed*

Gego,
I water with rain water plus rain mix every watering.
My conductivity meter tells me that the rain water reads 30 units, the local hard tap water reads 300 units and the rain water plus rain mix reads about 120 units. Pretty light feeding year round.
I never flush the pots and they all sit in about 1 cm of water. The water in the trays gets up to about 200 units. Beyond this I know no more.
The light feeding must be some of the reason that the phrags have responded to what ever the growstones are leaching into the water.
Remember that these mature plants are making up a mature growth in 8-9 months so there must be quite a high requirement for feed.
Maybe I would not see this response if I fed at higher levels.
The good thing about this quick maturation of growths is that the plants are actually in flower for more than half the year.
David


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## gego (Mar 2, 2016)

Thanks David, very interesting.

Rain mix is a fertilizer? I'm assuming you mean EC reading and the units is in uS. Tap water with 300 uS EC is pretty good already. If that is indeed a fertilizer then you have 90 units of total dissolved fertilizer. Since the pots sit on the mix then is it right to say that the nutrients are available to the plants 24/7? Assuming some roots are reaching the water or the media is delivering that water to the roots. Almost like SH.


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## Bjorn (Mar 3, 2016)

Interesting David, 
I thought that I used low amounts of fertiliser, but it seems that I am not alone At 90µS you should have something like 50-60ppm TDS fertiliser in your mix. Since commercial fertilisers are a bit low on their content of micronutrients, this leads me to think that you might be on the brink of lacking some micronutrient (although the rainwater contains a lot of interesting things)
The growstones are made of glass that has been blown up by the use of calcium carbonate as far as I understand. And as is stated earlier here this could make them useful as a source of both calcium and silicon. Guess you already have enough calcium, so my suggestion is that its silicon. Silicon is believe it or not, an important element in plant nutrition, and sufficient silicon is making plants utilise certain fertiliser elements better and also makes them tolerate stresses like drought, heat, lack of nutrition etc. So, if you are on the brink of e.g. some nutrient deficit, silicon makes your plants tolerate that better, and that may be what you see.


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## monocotman (Mar 3, 2016)

*rain mix*

Gego,
as far as I know, rain mix is a European version of MSU fertilizer. The pots sit in trays of water so it is available 24/7. It is pretty much semi hydro.
This adds another layer of 'consistency' to the plants as they do not go through any significant wet/dry cycles. 
The levels of water, O2 and fertilizer are very constant in the pot and the roots can adjust their growth to fit with these.
This may be very important when you are a phrag and a large leafy plant with no buffering capacity like you have when there are pseudo bulbs.
This helps maintain pristine foliage.
Bjorn - being on the brink is probably true. I remember that the new growth of Don Wimber was pretty pale to begin with but 'greened up' quickly when the growstones were added to the Suzanne Decker in September.
It is going to be interesting to see what develops when the plants go through a second cycle of growth in this environment,
David


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## gego (Mar 3, 2016)

I can relate to that since I'm using SH on some of my plants. Catts actually love it.

So the only input you added are the growstones and you believe the plants reacted positively to that. 

Thanks for sharing. Keep us posted.


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## phraggy (Mar 3, 2016)

Funny you should mention growstones David because I started using them only two weeks ago just to see what would happen. By the looks of your plants I hope the same will apply to mine.

Ed


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