# Throwing my paph. a lifeline



## rdhed (Apr 22, 2009)

As I was watering today I noticed one of my paphs that has been in hydroton for quite sometime was loose in its pot. I decided to take a bunch of the hydroton out to find the problem. A large portion of the root system had rotted off leaving me with just two roots..one approx. 1 3/4" and the other approx. 2 1/4" long and the plant has 2 open blooms at this time. My question is...would it be better to cut the two blooms off and repot to a bark mix or let the two blooms finish and then repot to a mix. So far for now, I have just cleaned out the hydroton..rinsed the pot of any bacteria...and sunk the plant deeper into the hydroton. 

Signed undecided,
--Allen--


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## swamprad (Apr 22, 2009)

With root loss that severe, you should consider trying the root recovery method outlined in a recent issue of Orchid Digest. Basically, potting it up in sponge rock, then sitting the pot in a a couple of inches of water with KLN rooting hormone added, and waiting 2 - 3 months. I did this a few months ago with several of my more root-challenged plants, and had amazing results with most of the plants. Much better than the sphag-in-bag method. Once you've got some healthy roots going, pot it up in your mix of choice.


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## bcostello (Apr 22, 2009)

swamprad said:


> With root loss that severe, you should consider trying the root recovery method outlined in a recent issue of Orchid Digest. Basically, potting it up in sponge rock, then sitting the pot in a a couple of inches of water with KLN rooting hormone added, and waiting 2 - 3 months. I did this a few months ago with several of my more root-challenged plants, and had amazing results with most of the plants. Much better than the sphag-in-bag method. Once you've got some healthy roots going, pot it up in your mix of choice.




this method works really well for me also


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## Candace (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes, cut the flowers off since the plant is already so stressed. :<


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## cnycharles (Apr 22, 2009)

did you wait to put the plant into the hydroton until it was starting to put out new roots? the basic guidelines are that the old roots will often rot off, and then new ones will grow down into the water. it could be that this is happening, and you only have two new roots; it would be expected though it doesn't always happen, that the old roots would rot off

thanks for posting the re-rooting method, I think I will give that a try


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## NYEric (Apr 23, 2009)

Is sponge rock = large perlite?


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## goldenrose (Apr 23, 2009)

Sounds like you're getting good advice. 
I thought the stuff that looks something like styrofoam is sponge rock.


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## NYEric (Apr 23, 2009)

I need to try this I have a few plants [Paphs of course! ] that are giving me root issues.


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## Paph_LdyMacBeth (Apr 23, 2009)

It sounds like a good technique to try. Plus I've found that "Sphag in a bag" usually ends up as "mush in a bag" before anything gets better!


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## JeanLux (Apr 23, 2009)

thanks for the tip Marc!!! I have some candidates to try it!! Jean


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## Elena (Apr 23, 2009)

I was also wondering is sponge rock was the same as perlite


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## NYEric (Apr 23, 2009)

I have a bag of small 'perlite' from the supermarket downstairs that is like the small beads used in beaded styrofoam. Then I have some larger stuff [perlite/sponge rock?] that I got from Kelly's Korner that is more brittle/harder. [almost oxymoronic ]


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## Gilda (Apr 23, 2009)

Great advice in the posts above ! ..

Hydroton is *NOT* for struggling paph plants or paphs in general, in my humble opinion. All of my paph collection except for a doz or so in spike/bud, have been repotted out of Hydroton/leca ,into a bark/coconut husk mix. I am seeing some new root growth already !! Yipee ! 

I have not tried the sponge rock recovery method for rootless paphs ,but it sounds encouraging. 

I have my rootless wonders in moss, not sphag and bag though..just moss and have been watering with superthrive occasionally. This is only 3 weeks in, so I have not done a "check". 
Good Luck !


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## Elena (Apr 23, 2009)

NYEric said:


> I have a bag of small 'perlite' from the supermarket downstairs that is like the small beads used in beaded styrofoam. Then I have some larger stuff [perlite/sponge rock?] that I got from Kelly's Korner that is more brittle/harder. [almost oxymoronic ]



Hmmm, the stuff they sell in UK and call perlite is the brittle, uneven mineral sort of thing but it's also fairly fine.


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## Gilda (Apr 23, 2009)

Elena said:


> Hmmm, the stuff they sell in UK and call perlite is the brittle, uneven mineral sort of thing but it's also fairly fine.



Perlite and sponge rock are the same . Sponge rock is larger and not readily available at garden centers like the smaller "cut" is. The smaller crushes easily and can pack down in your mix , where the larger size does not. Here is a link to show the differences. Scroll down till you see it.
Hope this helps.

http://www.repotme.com/orchid-media/index.html


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## Wendy (Apr 23, 2009)

Good link. Interesting that they list rice hulls. We use them in the mix that our company (www.northerncompositeproducts.com) uses in the production of composite deck boards. Rice hulls normally get sent to landfill so it is good to see them being put to good use besides being tossed. :clap: I'll have to grab a bucketfull next time I go up there. 

I really like perlite in my orchid mixes and keep both large and small size on hand. I'll have to try the straight perlite method for root building in the future. Thanks for the tip.


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## Elena (Apr 23, 2009)

Thanks, Gilda! 

I managed to find some on a UK website www.orchidaccessories.co.uk. They describe it as American Sponge Rock (Super Large Perlite). I use the normal small stuff mixed with bark but it's good to know about the bigger size.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Apr 23, 2009)

I haven't had any luck at all with the Orchid Digest method. Even plants with small roots put out no new root growth at all, all though they stay firm. Rootless plants remain rootless. I think I'll go back to my cocopeat/perlite mixture. Take care, Eric


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## Paph_LdyMacBeth (Apr 23, 2009)

How does your method work Eric?


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## Bob in Albany N.Y. (Apr 24, 2009)

Marc, are you saying that with this method of root recovery you don't water at all and the water is pulled up from the bottom?


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## cnycharles (Apr 24, 2009)

Wendy said:


> Good link. Interesting that they list rice hulls. We use them in the mix that our company (www.northerncompositeproducts.com) uses in the production of composite deck boards. Rice hulls normally get sent to landfill so it is good to see them being put to good use besides being tossed. :clap: I'll have to grab a bucketfull next time I go up there.



our greenhouse parent company buys rice hulls by the boatload and uses it often instead of perlite, or at least part of the perlite. it is nice to use a natural product, but it is a pain to get the stuff wet if it dries out, and if things are planted dry you can drip water on one side of a six inch pot and it will take forever for the water to wick over to the other side (water will drain out the bottom long before it will move over to the other side)


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## swamprad (Apr 25, 2009)

Bob in Albany said:


> Marc, are you saying that with this method of root recovery you don't water at all and the water is pulled up from the bottom?



Yes, that is essentially correct. I pot up the plants in sponge rock and sit them all together in a plastic container (from Target, holds a dozen or so pots) in a couple or inches or so of a water/KLN mixture. I mist them every morning and change the water/KLN mixture every week or two. I put about 20 plants into this regimen last December. Not all were rootless wonders, but they all had markedly suboptimal root systems, imho. (Many of these were fairly recent purchases that, in retrospect, I should have repotted as soon as I received them.) After 3 months most (though not all) had multiple new fat roots and were looking great. There were a few that did not respond, so I potted them back into sponge rock, and I'm giving them another 2-3 months. The article stated that they had much better results with this method when used during spring/summer, rather than winter. And I will add that none of the brachy crosses that I tried put out any new roots (so far).


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## Wendy (Apr 25, 2009)

cnycharles said:


> our greenhouse parent company buys rice hulls by the boatload and uses it often instead of perlite, or at least part of the perlite. it is nice to use a natural product, but it is a pain to get the stuff wet if it dries out, and if things are planted dry you can drip water on one side of a six inch pot and it will take forever for the water to wick over to the other side (water will drain out the bottom long before it will move over to the other side)




Interesting. With our company we experience the opposite as the hulls need to be as close to 0% water content as they are used in the mix. It's a pain in the butt to keep the moisture so low. But then again getting it that low is just not natural as everything has some moisture content.

I will bring a bucket home though and try it in my mix. Thanks for the tip on keeping it moist. :clap:


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## cnycharles (Apr 25, 2009)

well, they do have twin personalities. when the media containing the hulls is dry, it is hard to wet or wet fully, quickly. once the media is soaked, it can be sort of stifling as there isn't as much air in the media. i'm sure that hulls by themselves could be tough to dry properly, and especially to 0%


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Apr 25, 2009)

I can't say that my method works well....but it seems marginally better than sphagnum or perlite. Just a mix of cocopeat and perlite, roughly 50:50. Plants don't really put out much root growth, but they get more turgid. If I'm lucky, after a few months to a year I'll have enough small root growth to repot in a regular mix. Take care, Eric


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