# Paphiopedilum armeniacum and X micranthum



## Berthold (Aug 21, 2013)

Seed pods of Paphiopedilum armeniacum and Paph. micranthum pollinated by armeniacum. Seed pods are about 5 cm long after 3.5 month


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## The Orchid Boy (Aug 21, 2013)

:clap:


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## SlipperFan (Aug 21, 2013)

Excellent!


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## abax (Aug 22, 2013)

Are you excited about the prospects??? I'd be ever so impatient and
excited.


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## NYEric (Aug 22, 2013)

Good luck.


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## Trithor (Aug 22, 2013)

I am very jealous!:clap:


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## Berthold (Dec 15, 2013)

Berthold said:


> Seed pods of Paphiopedilum armeniacum



have a look at what was in it. After bleaching, otherwise seeds are black.
Photo from Hans-Joachim Pischeli, Jena/Germany


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## SlipperKing (Dec 15, 2013)

Is that straight sphagnum you are growing in?


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## eaborne (Dec 15, 2013)

How long from pollination to harvest for these pods?


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## Trithor (Dec 16, 2013)

eaborne said:


> How long from pollination to harvest for these pods?



I am also very interested. Did you wait for the pods to reach full maturity and split on their own?


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## fibre (Dec 16, 2013)

nice embryo, ready to grow ...
thanks for sharing this nice pic!


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## Berthold (Dec 16, 2013)

Trithor said:


> I am also very interested. Did you wait for the pods to reach full maturity and split on their own?



I harvested 7 months after pollination, just before capsule opened by itself.

Substrate is pine bark with 20% Akadama with a moss layer on top


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## PaphMadMan (Dec 16, 2013)

Thanks for the seed picture. My inner botany geek is grinning from ear to ear.


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## Berthold (Apr 8, 2014)

No germination yet, either armeniacum or micranthum x armeniacum


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## Trithor (Apr 9, 2014)

What medium have you used for the germ flasks? It is early days though.


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## eteson (Apr 9, 2014)

very nice picture of the seed, thanks for sharing.
Germination in paphs usually take a while...

Eliseo


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## Berthold (Apr 9, 2014)

Yes I think so also. We tested a lot of different media. My be we had a problem with bleaching the seeds, which was not long enough.


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## SlipperKing (Apr 9, 2014)

What about over bleaching?


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## Trithor (Apr 10, 2014)

SlipperKing said:


> What about over bleaching?



A definite possibility.


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## Ozpaph (Apr 11, 2014)

microscope some seed after bleaching??


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## Berthold (Apr 11, 2014)

Ozpaph said:


> microscope some seed after bleaching??



Yes we did. The seed in that photo is overbleached a lot, because the seed is black and You can't see the embryo without overbleaching. 
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=459931&postcount=7


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## Ozpaph (Apr 11, 2014)

Thanks. I didnt know that. Would love to see more photos like that.


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## Berthold (May 28, 2014)

Ozpaph said:


> Would love to see more photos like that.


It's too late for such photos. Germination is in progress. We have some protocorms of micranthum x armeniacum. See photo from Claus. It looks like underwater mines.

Paphipedilum armeniacum doesn't show germination yet.


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## eteson (May 29, 2014)

Cool!

Enviado desde mi SGH-I337M mediante Tapatalk


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## Trithor (May 29, 2014)

Great to see success!


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## Ozpaph (May 30, 2014)

This is really interesting. Please keep us updated! Thanks


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## Berthold (Jul 4, 2014)

Protocorms of micarnthum x armeniacum are developing


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## SlipperKing (Jul 4, 2014)

Your photo in May shows 6 procorms but todays PIC only shows 4. Is this a different mother flask or did 2 die off?


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## Berthold (Jul 4, 2014)

The 6 protocorms are in 2 glasses now. The new medium has less hormones to accelerate cell differentiation. For primary germination the hormones in medium are of advantage.


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## Berthold (Aug 22, 2015)

The biggest bastard seedling made 2 new leaves in the last year out of glass. I am impressed.


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## Happypaphy7 (Aug 22, 2015)

Oh, wow! That is so tiny!! 

I hope they speed up a little. All the best!

BTW, what happened to the rest of the seeds? 
What happened to the armeniacum seeds? Any germination?


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## Berthold (Aug 22, 2015)

The other seedlings are still in glass. From armeniacum we have 1.5 seedlings only.
It's not so easy to earn one's living by propagating Paphiopedilum armeniacum.


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## NYEric (Aug 23, 2015)

Thanks for the info.


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## Happypaphy7 (Aug 23, 2015)

Berthold said:


> The other seedlings are still in glass. From armeniacum we have 1.5 seedlings only.
> It's not so easy to earn one's living by propagating Paphiopedilum armeniacum.



1.5? Does that mean you have one and another one is half dead?? 

I have read that P. armeniacum is easily propagated via division or wild collection that propagation by seeding is not often done. Maybe this is another reason why?? 

Anyways, at least Fumi's Delight yield is much better.
I love that hybrid.


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## Berthold (Aug 24, 2015)

Happypaphy7 said:


> 1.5? Does that mean you have one and another one is half dead??



Yes, small and half alive. I tend to forget it.

Propagating by division is easy. But for generative propagation we would have to do some more research on the sowing medium and the bleaching procedure.


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## myxodex (Aug 25, 2015)

Thanks for posting that is very interesting to see and it inspires me to have another go.

As for bleaching, I did hear that you can use an ascorbate (vitamin C) solution (adjust pH with KOH), as a "stop solution". Vit C neutralises bleach very effectively and is supposed to allow you to use longer bleach treatments. You give one water rinse after bleach, then a 3-5 min soak in the stop solution, followed by another water rinse. Autoclave vit C as pure solution to avoid denaturing or filter sterilise.

I've tried this (at 0.1% w/v, pH 6.0) on neo seeds and got high percent germination in 21 days with the stop method but poorer and slower germination without, ... however the protocorms did not develop and died off. This happened in both treatments so I don't think it was the stop solution, rather some major mistakes in formulating my home made germination medium. Another observation was that the seeds that had the stop treatment came out pale yellow-orange colour, rather than dull brown, so the vit C treatment did affect seed colour more than the bleach did on it's own. I suspect that the vit C is doing something more than just neutralising the bleach.


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## Berthold (Nov 25, 2015)

The little bastard is reaching 12 mm leaf span already.
But how do we say: Haste makes waste :wink:


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## NYEric (Nov 25, 2015)

Good luck, thanks for sharing.


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## polyantha (Dec 5, 2015)

That´s a damn good pic of such a tiny plant!


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## Berthold (Dec 5, 2015)

Photo with a 44-MPixel chip of a Sony A7R II and a 90 mm close-up lense, distance 30 cm


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## Berthold (Apr 12, 2017)

This is my wonderful baby. Its so cute :wink:

Span is 1 inch by now.


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## NYEric (Apr 12, 2017)

Cute, the survivor! Good luck.


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## Happypaphy7 (Apr 13, 2017)

How do you keep the moss alive so nicely like that?
It looks comfy in the green blanket. lol


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## JeanLux (Apr 13, 2017)

:clap: bravo !!!! Jean


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## Berthold (Apr 13, 2017)

Happypaphy7 said:


> How do you keep the moss alive so nicely like that?
> It looks comfy in the green blanket. lol



Moss is growing on pine bark in very humid air condition


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## Berthold (May 4, 2017)

Father and mother of the little bastard


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## Berthold (Mar 24, 2018)

The little guy is reaching 2 inches now, 3.5 years after deflasking


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## My Green Pets (Mar 24, 2018)

My favorite slippertalk thread in a long time!


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## consettbay2003 (Mar 26, 2018)

At this stage are you fertilizing the little guy and if so with what and at what strength?


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## Berthold (Nov 21, 2018)

After potting into pine bark the bastard is in progress, only 5 more years to blooming.


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## Guldal (Nov 22, 2018)

Thank you for a most interesting and enlightening thread! 

Looking foreward to follow the li'l one's further progress in life! 

Kind regards, 
Jens


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## xiphius (Nov 30, 2018)

Wow... long haul! But it is looking quite nice! Congrats!


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## Berthold (Apr 17, 2020)

5 years after the bottle the plant reached a span of 12 cm (for non metrics: 0.000074564 mil)


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## xiphius (Apr 18, 2020)

Berthold said:


> 5 years after the bottle the plant reached a span of 12 cm (for non metrics: 0.000074564 mil)



Lol! Well on it's way to 0.0001 miles then. It'll be in bloom before you know it. ;P


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## BrucherT (Apr 19, 2020)

Berthold said:


> 5 years after the bottle the plant reached a span of 12 cm (for non metrics: 0.000074564 mil)


Why such a big pot for such a little plant?


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## Berthold (Apr 20, 2020)

BrucherT said:


> Why such a big pot for such a little plant?



I am not sure to find time for repotting again in 6 month 

and

In a larger pot it is easier to keep the moisture of the substrate constant.
It is a clay pot in which water evaporates through the wall.

In nature, the plants have a much larger pot.


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## Stone (Apr 21, 2020)

I bought two plants of micranthum. When they flowered years later, they turned out to be two bastards like this.


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## DrLeslieEe (May 30, 2020)

A seven year old 'bastard' story! Love the updates and seeing the progression from pod to NBS.

Now we can understand why sometimes it costs a bit for the blooming size plants as it take this long to get here. Then to select ones with good flowers will wean others out even more. 

Here's to your 'bastard' Fumi's Delight adventure!


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## Guldal (May 30, 2020)

So nice to see the progress of 'the li'll one'! Hope he is behaving better than your average, unruly teenager?!



Berthold said:


> In nature, the plants have a much larger pot.


Cogent observation!


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## Berthold (May 30, 2020)

Guldal said:


> Cogent observation!



Sorry, I wanted to say it is not a Laelia rupicola living in little rock holes in Brazil.


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## Berthold (May 30, 2020)

Stone said:


> I bought two plants of micranthum. When they flowered years later, they turned out to be two bastards like this.


Are the plants or the fotos of the the plants still alive? Was it in the last millennium, Mike?


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## Guldal (May 30, 2020)

Berthold said:


> Sorry, I wanted to say it is not a Laelia rupicola living in little rock holes in Brazil.


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## Stone (Jun 4, 2020)

Berthold said:


> Are the plants or the fotos of the the plants still alive? Was it in the last millennium, Mike?


I still have them.


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## Berthold (Jun 13, 2021)

The little bastard 7 years after deflasking. It is going on


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## Ozpaph (Jun 14, 2021)

that's slow.
How many others grew?


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## Berthold (Jun 14, 2021)

Ozpaph said:


> that's slow.
> How many others grew?


We have two little plants alive. The other plant has a kindle already.


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## Berthold (Dec 16, 2022)

Flower shoot on approach 8 years after sowing


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## KyushuCalanthe (Dec 16, 2022)

Patience... I've been there.


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## Berthold (Tuesday at 1:33 PM)

Reaching middle marker


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## Mafate (Today at 1:43 AM)

Can’t wait to see the result of this good long job. How excited you must be!


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## Ozpaph (Today at 12:05 PM)

well done


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