# Seeking Cdn Source for Phrag flasks



## Kawarthapine (Feb 19, 2015)

I am avid hobbiest with about 150 plants, of which roughly half are paphs and phrags.

I would like to acquire a mature flask or two so I can try raising some juvenile seedlings into blooming plants.

Can anyone point me in the direction of and recomend a Canadian grower or two who might consider selling some flasks?

Many thanks!


Duncan


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## SlipperFan (Feb 19, 2015)

Welcome to Slippertalk, Duncan. We have quite a few Canadians on this forum -- I'm sure they can give suggestions.


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## Justin (Feb 19, 2015)

orchid inn visits canada and they sell flasks


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## Lordoftheswarms (Feb 19, 2015)

I'm ordering plants and flasks from Chuck Acker. 
Normally he doesn't ship to Canada, but I managed to find a way. 

Let ME know if you want anything off of his site (http://www.flasksbychuckacker.com/) , and I'll get it for you, if you'll contribute to the shipping, and then ship from Edmonton to Peterborough. 
Go straight to him, and you can forget it. 
I had some people do that once. 
They kept me out of the loop intentionally, and expected me to take CITES listed plants across an international border for them. You can guess how that went.


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## NYEric (Feb 20, 2015)

what border, which direction, if you don't mind me asking?


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## Lordoftheswarms (Feb 20, 2015)

NYEric said:


> what border, which direction, if you don't mind me asking?



Sorry, I don't understand what you are asking.

Ah, I think you are asking about which border I crossed with plants, and which direction? 
I import plants into Canada, and at the time, it was plants from the Orchid Zone.


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## orchideya (Feb 20, 2015)

I never deflasked phrags, but would be tempted by this one:
Phragmipedium besseae v. flavum 'Chuck's Choice' AM/AOS x ‘Germany #2’
How much do you charge for importing services?


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## ALToronto (Feb 20, 2015)

Are Chuck's flasks better than Sam's flasks? Sam will be in Toronto in May.


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## orchideya (Feb 20, 2015)

was there updated list of Sam's flasks sent out? The latest I have was from last September.


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## Cat (Feb 20, 2015)

I would also like to have an updated list of Sam's flask.


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## NYEric (Feb 20, 2015)

ALToronto said:


> Are Chuck's flasks better than Sam's flasks? Sam will be in Toronto in May.



Chuck will grow them up into Compots!


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## ALToronto (Feb 20, 2015)

NYEric said:


> Chuck will grow them up into Compots!



That wouldn't be helpful to us in Canada. Aren't importation rules for potted plants different than for flasks?


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## ALToronto (Feb 20, 2015)

I just exchanged emails with Sam. He may have some phrag flasks for his May trip. I'll post any updates.


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## NYEric (Feb 20, 2015)

I was told at the Northbound NY/Montreal border that as long as the plants were bare root, not in wood/bark, they could be carried in so I have done that a few times. The other way..not so much.


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## Paph_LdyMacBeth (Feb 20, 2015)

NYEric said:


> I was told at the Northbound NY/Montreal border that as long as the plants were bare root, not in wood/bark, they could be carried in so I have done that a few times. The other way..not so much.



You should be able to bring up to 40 plants across the border, bare root...but that doesn't mean every border guard will agree or know this.


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## John M (Feb 20, 2015)

Paph_LdyMacBeth said:


> You should be able to bring up to 40 plants across the border, bare root...but that doesn't mean every border guard will agree or know this.



How do you know this? Do you know of a page in the bowels of the Canadian Gov't website that we could print out and carry with us....to show border guards? Thx.


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## Lordoftheswarms (Feb 20, 2015)

orchideya said:


> I never deflasked phrags, but would be tempted by this one:
> Phragmipedium besseae v. flavum 'Chuck's Choice' AM/AOS x ‘Germany #2’
> How much do you charge for importing services?



For just a flask? 
20$ on top of the cost of the flask and the shipping. 
I think that's a pretty good deal considering Chuck's flasks aren't available in Canada at all. Start adding plants, then it's going to start getting expensive. 
You'd have to share in the costs of the documents, more of the shipping.


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## Lordoftheswarms (Feb 20, 2015)

CITES documents are not required for CITES listed plants in flasks. 

Anything CITES listed better have a CITES export permit, and a CITES import permit. Most orchids except Phalaenopsis and a few others are CITES 2, which is easier to bring across borders, but Paphs and Phrags are CITES 1. All orchids should have a Phytosanitary Certificate. 

If the right customs official sees you without these documents, you will lose everything, and be charged, fined, etc.

You run a significant risk, but some veterans in my local orchid society have claimed the orchids they were bringing were just "tropical house plants", and they get away with bringing them in without documents. I wouldn't risk it. If you get caught, everytime you travel after that, you are flagged for additional screening and inspection. You are put on a list of people that smuggle/mislead officials on whatever you are declaring. 
I saw a asian lady get chewed out by a customs official. Here stuff was confiscated, and next time, if she makes the mistake of hiding stuff, she's going to federal prison, as she has been counselled on the crime.


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## eggshells (Feb 21, 2015)

John M said:


> How do you know this? Do you know of a page in the bowels of the Canadian Gov't website that we could print out and carry with us....to show border guards? Thx.



Hi John, I emailed CFIA because I am looking to get some orchid bark and looking to get those 2 cubic foot bags. I was willing to drive to the US and get some there so I inquired on permits, etc. I got this reply and I'm quoting it



> "Orchids from the United States do not require a permit, yet will require a phytosanitary certificate. Orchid Bark however, is something I will need to send the horticultural specialist for review."



So I think we still need Phytosanitary but you don't have to apply and pay for the permit. It's much harder getting an orchid bark for substrate!


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## John M (Feb 21, 2015)

Thanks. CFIA actually forgot to mention that it's only orchids from the continental USA that do not need a Canadian Import Permit. Orchids from Hawaii do need a Canadian Import Permit. 

What I was hoping was maybe finally clarified was the definition of "houseplant" vs. "orchid". Of course, orchids ARE houseplants, these days. The rules for houseplants seem to be more lax; but, without something in writing, anybody with houseplants or orchids is taking a chance if they don't have all the paperwork done.


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## Kawarthapine (Feb 22, 2015)

Thanks ladies & gents. 

I've been drooling over Chuck Acker's plants for a few years and agree with Orchideya about the var flavum x germany. 

I too would like to get a hold of Sam's list but must plead ignorance as I've been living in isolation far too long!

Another Cdn. source that comes to mind is Paramount Orchids (used to be in Alberta but now have a single nursery in BC. While they mostly sell plants they will have some flasks available by late May to early June. I have not ordered from them before but do know a few folks in Alberta that are happy purchasers.


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## NYEric (Feb 22, 2015)

Orchid Inn Ltd. = Sam Tsui


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## Kawarthapine (Feb 22, 2015)

Thanks Eric.

BTW. Hope mother nature is being kinder to you folks South of the border...


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## Lordoftheswarms (Feb 25, 2015)

eggshells said:


> Hi John, I emailed CFIA because I am looking to get some orchid bark and looking to get those 2 cubic foot bags. I was willing to drive to the US and get some there so I inquired on permits, etc. I got this reply and I'm quoting it
> 
> 
> 
> So I think we still need Phytosanitary but you don't have to apply and pay for the permit. It's much harder getting an orchid bark for substrate!




Your Canadian official wasn't talking about Phrags or anything CITES listed. 
They were talking about orchids that are not CITES listed. 

You do need to have a CITES export permit and CITES import permit to transport Phrags across international borders, unless they are in flask.


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## orchideya (Feb 27, 2015)

Lordoftheswarms said:


> Your Canadian official wasn't talking about Phrags or anything CITES listed.
> They were talking about orchids that are not CITES listed.
> 
> You do need to have a CITES export permit and CITES import permit to transport Phrags across international borders, unless they are in flask.




So, if I travel to States, get there couple flasks and go back to Canada - I don't need any docs or permits for those flasks or I still need import permit and sanitary certificate?

I am talking only flasks, no plants, no bark, no moss.


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## gonewild (Feb 27, 2015)

John M said:


> What I was hoping was maybe finally clarified was the definition of "houseplant" vs. "orchid". Of course, orchids ARE houseplants, these days. The rules for houseplants seem to be more lax; but, without something in writing, anybody with houseplants or orchids is taking a chance if they don't have all the paperwork done.



John you sparked my interest in the import definitions so I read through the Canadian regulations. Orchids are not considered Houseplants" under import rules. Generally all wild orchids are CITES listed so all orchid plants are separated from "Houseplants" and classed as "Orchids". In the Canadian regs it refers to Houseplants and Orchids separately (on purpose). The regs give examples of plants that are considered houseplants and orchids are not listed.

Canada allows you to personally carry in 50 houseplants for your own private non commercial use without a permit but that rule is not intended to include orchids. Trying to bend that rule is high risk.


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## gonewild (Feb 27, 2015)

orchideya said:


> So, if I travel to States, get there couple flasks and go back to Canada - I don't need any docs or permits for those flasks or I still need import permit and sanitary certificate?
> 
> I am talking only flasks, no plants, no bark, no moss.



You need a phytosanitary certificate.

People assume that the phytosanitary certificate is only a certificate declaring the plants are pest free but it also is the document that states the identification of the plants being imported. The certificate is what the border inspector can use to know if the flasks contain orchids or marijuana....don't expect them to actually know the difference!


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