# Paph. Heaven's Knight



## rdlsreno (Feb 8, 2010)

It flowered again and it is better than the last flowering. The dorsal is still cupped but it has better segments. What should I cross it with?

Ramon

Paph. Heaven's Knight (Paphiopedilum Autumn Gold x Paphiopedilum White Knight)


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## Leo Schordje (Feb 8, 2010)

Lovely flower

You could cross it to a larger clear green or clear yellow complex, to get even larger whites. 

cross it to a rothschildianum type hybrid or species to get Rolfei like flowers with taller stems and better flowers. 

cross it to greyii album to get something similar to Skip Bartlett. 

the sky is the limit,


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## labskaus (Feb 8, 2010)

Very nice flower, indeed!

I'd try to get a large percentage of seedlings with a clearer white colour by mating it with another good white.

And, cross it with a good henryanum.


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## biothanasis (Feb 8, 2010)

Almost pure white!! Nice!!!


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## TyroneGenade (Feb 8, 2010)

What about Mystic Knight to round out the shape and increase the dorsal sepal hood? (See http://mikiorchid.myweb.hinet.net/my.html and scroll down to near end of page.) Mystic Knight also has Skip Bartlett in the back ground so the chance of getting the cross to take is much higher. Unless your plant has multiple growths I would not use it as a seed parent (but I am paranoid).

This link may be of interest to you: http://www.marriottorchids.com/RoadLEss.html


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## Roth (Feb 8, 2010)

I would immediately think about crossing it with Irish Eyes or a similar green like Elfstone to get larger whites with a larger dorsal... 

I would definitely not cross it with another complex white from experience. The whites x huge green complex are the way to go to increase the size and get better shape. And crossing back to Skip Bartlett would just make a step backwards. If one looks carefully, Skip Bartlett was good as a parent to use once, but that's it. One big complain being that Skip Bartlett decreased the flower size dramatically. 

I think that Snowbird x godefroyae, or even some of the Miller's Daughter x godefroyae would have performed much better as a white parent, or whitemoor x godefroyae, or this kind of things. It happens that the starting point of the US and Japanese white is Skip Bartlett WP, itself being F.C. Puddle FCC/RHS - not Superbum - x godefroyae 'Bion' FCC/AOS. Bad luck in a way.


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## Ernie (Feb 8, 2010)

I'm intrigued by the henryanum idea Carsten mentioned and based on your previous post of an all green/white, spotless Complex x henry cross. I want to test that out some more.  

Or try a nice, big venustum measuresianum for something different. 

Have some fun, kick an onside kick at the beginning of the second half.  

-Ernie


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## etex (Feb 8, 2010)

Gorgeous bloom!! I like the colors and shape!!


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## goldenrose (Feb 8, 2010)

:clap: :drool: Oh yeah, it's a beaut!
I think the suggestions made have covered a lot of bases. 
My first thought was godefroyae/luecochilum, but are you going to flatten out the dorsal? 
I'd have some doubts with Mystic Knight, I'm seeing a funky dorsal in one of the pics on the link Tyronne gave, another has cuppy petals. 
The process of elimination has begun!


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## TyroneGenade (Feb 8, 2010)

In light of Sanderianum's point about small flowers I retract the Mystic Knight notion. Big is better and there would be too large a proportion of small progeny. I noticed the funky dorsals and cuppy petals but the idea was to simply get the dorsal bigger and the nice flat petals of the Heaven's Knight may balance it out. There is no telling if the defects are culture or genetics so you are going to have to take a big risk in any event. If one looks at the Paph.Winston Churchill 'Indomitable' on the link you will also see a cuppy flower even though this clone is known for flat welll presented flowers.

My idea would be to get pollen or put pollen on a good breeder rather than a good looking flower. Given the high % of runts in Paph breeding this is very much a numbers game. The more seed you get the more plants you can raise the better chance of raising something exceptional. My idea of Mystic Knight was specifically because there is a higher chance of getting a fat pod of seed if the genetics is similar.

It may be an idea to find out which of the crosses white/pink and green/yellow crosses have received the most awards and have the most complementary genetics and use one of the parents rather than the awarded plant as the genes which lead to superior substance can cause progeny which don't open fully as the tissues harden faster. I've seen some excellent looking flowers which were crippled by exceptional substance (i.e. cupped). Sanderianum, Leo et al, can you suggest a good breeder to cross this to?

I'm keen to learn where this thread will go as regards breeding trends.

tt


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## JeanLux (Feb 8, 2010)

not being an expert in paph hybridizing, I would be happy with this white bloom as it is!!! Jean


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## SlipperFan (Feb 8, 2010)

I'd like to see a pink complex like this.


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## rdlsreno (Feb 9, 2010)

Hmmm.... I have a two to flower, My first pick a) Paph. Emerald Lake and the other b) Paph. Su Fa Golden.

Ramon

Paph. Emerald Lake (Old Flower taken two years ago. Already turning yellow)





Paph. Su Fa Golden


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## Roth (Feb 9, 2010)

Clearly Emerald Lake...


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## labskaus (Feb 9, 2010)

Absolutely.


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## toddybear (Feb 9, 2010)

Stunning!


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## goldenrose (Feb 9, 2010)

Ahhh .....another consideration in picking & choosing - what's readily available can have an influence! Emerald Lake should be a good one.


TyroneGenade said:


> ....My idea would be to get pollen or put pollen on a good breeder rather than a good looking flower. Given the high % of runts in Paph breeding this is very much a numbers game. The more seed you get the more plants you can raise the better chance of raising something exceptional. My idea of Mystic Knight was specifically because there is a higher chance of getting a fat pod of seed if the genetics is similar.
> I'm keen to learn where this thread will go as regards breeding trends.
> tt


Good point/consideration. There are so many things to consider when breeding. It's nice to bounce ideas around on this forum. Some are commenting, they're not expert/experienced hybridizers but there's nothing wrong with sharing an opinion, IMO you're learning along the way, at some point you might start making crosses!


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## KyushuCalanthe (Feb 9, 2010)

Impressive. I love the white and cream blending colors. I think Leo recommendation of a rhoth hybrid sounds very good.


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## tim (Feb 9, 2010)

x Emerald Lake = small dorsals... you need something with a huge dorsal to offset the Heaven's Knight...


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## rdlsreno (Feb 28, 2010)

The one I chose is the Paph. Emerald Lake. Here how it looks. The pouch has a ding in it but a lot fuller this time.

Ramon

Paph. Emerald Lake


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## SlipperKing (Mar 1, 2010)

Nice ones Ramon


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## rdlsreno (Nov 26, 2011)

Up date of the cross: I am waiting to see how many flask I have.

Ramon


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## rdlsreno (Nov 26, 2011)

rdlsreno said:


> It flowered again and it is better than the last flowering. The dorsal is still cupped but it has better segments. What should I cross it with?
> 
> Ramon
> 
> Paph. Heaven's Knight (Paphiopedilum Autumn Gold x Paphiopedilum White Knight)



This plant does breed and very vigorous. I made a cross again with the pollen of Paph. Baroness Byford which has now has NS of 13.75 cm.

Ramon

Paph. Baroness Byford


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## toddybear (Nov 26, 2011)

I'm not generally a fan of complexes but WOW!


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## rdlsreno (Nov 28, 2011)

Here is an up date of the Paph. Baroness Byford not as flat but huge 13.75 cm. from 11 cm.

Ramon

Paph. Baroness Byford


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## SlipperKing (Nov 29, 2011)

Looks like a high potential cross Ramon.


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## barry (Dec 1, 2011)

I want the flask!


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## labskaus (Dec 2, 2011)

I want the parents and the flask.


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