# Choice of flasks from Sam Tsui



## leeaun (Oct 29, 2016)

Hi everyone, 

a newbie trying out some paphs from flasks and not really decided on which would be a more vigorous cross and have better flowers. The flasks are from Sam which I know have a very good reputation:

1) Paph Rothschildianum (Giant wings x Canadian Club) versus (Giant wings x Pylo)? 

2) Paph sanderianum (Red Delight x World 101) versus (World 101 x Red Delight)? 

I would just like 1 flask from each of the above roths and sanderianum crosses. Would really appreciate your feedback on your personal choice from your experience with the above. 

Many thanks!


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## Justin (Oct 29, 2016)

For the roth definitely the Canadian club cross. 

For the sand i am sure either would be great. I have not seen either parent but from the parent clonal names it sounds like 101 has very long petals while the other has color. There is a belief among some that the pod parent (usually the first clone named in the cross) predominates over the pollen parent (usually the second name). So these two crosses are a reciprocal pollen cross. If you are looking for color try the first or for long petals try the second. Of course your milage may vary and both should be equally awesome!


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## Ozpaph (Oct 29, 2016)

I purchased both roth flasks - both steady growers. I favour the CC cross.
I dont have luck with sanderianums. My personal view would be not to start with sandies. Sam's, Johanna Burkhardt and Lady Rothschild flasks etc will be very nice, I think. Mine are growing well.


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## troy (Oct 29, 2016)

Sam does have the best flasks!!!


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## paphioland (Oct 29, 2016)

I'm not a big fan of either roth cross truthfully but if I had to I would go with Canadian club cross. But if I had to take 6-8 yrs to bloom roths these wouldn't be my choice. 

The sand crosses should be great. I would go with 101 X red. 
Good luck


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## Ozpaph (Oct 29, 2016)

paphioland said:


> But if I had to take 6-8 yrs to bloom roths these wouldn't be my choice.



What would be your choice?


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## paphioland (Oct 29, 2016)

Ozpaph said:


> What would be your choice?



Not a cross that is similar to what is being bloomed out now from TON. Also these two are nice but there are even nicer. Like tarantula, Tokyo fantasy, raptor, perfection, titanic. I would want next generation or with tarantula or Tokyo fantasy. Or mix new generation oz roths with ton roths.


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## leeaun (Oct 29, 2016)

Wow - thanks to everyone who gave me their thoughts! I have placed my order for the one with CC and the sanderianum cross with 101 as the pod parent as suggested. I have grown sanderianum seedlings before from flask from plants from Equatorial plants but they were very slow growing and some flasks from them that were so fast growing that I though they might be the Prince Edward of York. I gave the seedlings of all away after growing for 2 years to a friend as I moved overseas for 2 years so they are still with him but all perished (sigh!) because he overwatered them.....

I read so many insightful posts on expert growers like yourselves about the deflasking method ranging from keeping the agar on to washing it all off to advice that after taking it out of the flask they should be all grown together for at least another 6 months in a community pot? Sam told me that one of the reason that many plants are so slow growing are that they have already run out of nutrients in the flask so he replates them to keep them in constant growth to reduce the check on growth after leaving the flask. 

To reduce the boredom of waiting to see the little seedlings bloom, I have also ordered 8 seedling plants which is 20ish leafspan from 3 crosses of 2 each and 2 other different crosses of one each (Sam's choice) and also 8 roths of NBS (4 crosses of 2 each, one package of 4 which is of both parents from japanese parents and the other package of 4 which includes at least one japanese parent in the cross. 

Thanks once again for all the advice and if anyone has any comments on what I have mentioned please do so......


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## Justin (Oct 29, 2016)

Nice please share pics.


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## Migrant13 (Oct 29, 2016)

Good luck with everything. Sounds like a great assortment.


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## Ozpaph (Oct 29, 2016)

paphioland said:


> Not a cross that is similar to what is being bloomed out now from TON. Also these two are nice but there are even nicer. Like tarantula, Tokyo fantasy, raptor, perfection, titanic. I would want next generation or with tarantula or Tokyo fantasy. Or mix new generation oz roths with ton roths.



Are they available, anywhere?


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## paphioland (Oct 29, 2016)

Ozpaph said:


> Are they available, anywhere?



Yes from TON on occasion . I'll have some great flasks soon. Mixing oz and some of ton plants even their new gold medal. I may sell some seedlings, I have a bunch which are going to be a nightmare when they get older. . I'm sure the OZ will have top notch flasks plants coming soon. Sam has some nice Roth crosses I just don't like those at this stage.


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## leeaun (Oct 29, 2016)

Migrant13 said:


> Good luck with everything. Sounds like a great assortment.



Thanks! And thank you to everyone for the critical review of the parents used in the roth crosses. Unlike most experts on this page, I am working flat out as a surgeon and I dont think I will have time for showing but wanting to get a variety of the different kinds of roth flowers for diversity. Was smitten by the beautiful roths displayed in orchids shows and also very much impressed by the diversity of flower forms I saw in the nursery of the Mount Kinabalu National Park in Sabah where they originate from. I saw at least 20 pots of huge specimens in the display nursery with flowers ranging from 20cm odd up to 34cm acoss as the park ranger who showed me around measured to show the tour group I was in....absolutely fascinating......


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## emydura (Oct 29, 2016)

paphioland said:


> and some of ton plants even their new gold medal. .



What is their latest GM? Are there any photos of it?


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## Ozpaph (Oct 29, 2016)

paphioland said:


> Yes from TON on occasion . I'll have some great flasks soon. Mixing oz and some of ton plants even their new gold medal. I may sell some seedlings, I have a bunch which are going to be a nightmare when they get older. . I'm sure the OZ will have top notch flasks plants coming soon. Sam has some nice Roth crosses I just don't like those at this stage.



Thanks Ken. Keep some flasks for the Down Under contingent, please.


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## kiwi (Oct 29, 2016)

Yes please for Down Under


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## cattmad (Oct 30, 2016)

emydura said:


> What is their latest GM? Are there any photos of it?



as far as I can tell two roths received GM/JOGA this year

X-hot got upgraded
http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/purewater_orchids/folder/580773.html?m=lc&p=2

and 'Giant Black'

http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/purewater_orchids/folder/580773.html?m=lc&p=4

this is a good page to bookmark too


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## Happypaphy7 (Oct 30, 2016)

Thanks for the links.
I love looking at beautiful flowers on those websites.
Amazing Magic Lantern and funny looking gratrixianum on that second link. lol


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## paphioland (Oct 30, 2016)

http://more4you.life.coocan.jp/joga2016/_MG_0739.jpg


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## paphioland (Oct 30, 2016)

Ozpaph said:


> Thanks Ken. Keep some flasks for the Down Under contingent, please.



Sure. No problem.


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## Ozpaph (Oct 30, 2016)

paphioland said:


> http://more4you.life.coocan.jp/joga2016/_MG_0739.jpg



That's lovely. What is it?


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## Ozpaph (Oct 30, 2016)

paphioland said:


> Sure. No problem.



That would be great. Thanks.


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## Ozpaph (Oct 30, 2016)

cattmad said:


> as far as I can tell two roths received GM/JOGA this year
> 
> X-hot got upgraded
> http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/purewater_orchids/folder/580773.html?m=lc&p=2
> ...



some really nice orchids, there.


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## paphioland (Oct 30, 2016)

Ozpaph said:


> That's lovely. What is it?



'Giant black' gm/joga


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## Ozpaph (Oct 30, 2016)

Thanks.


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## cattmad (Oct 30, 2016)

paphioland said:


> 'Giant black' gm/joga



any idea on size of 'Giant Black' Ken?


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## AdamD (Oct 30, 2016)

Thanks for keeping us in the loop on the current state of Roth breeding. Always welcome insight, and I'd never know where to find JOGA info myself.


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## paphioland (Oct 30, 2016)

I was looking at orchid inn page. If I were going to buy roths I would buy the seedlings. There are some nice interesting crosses on there. I don't know if the flasks will be better than the seedlings. If I were forced to get flasks I would try the 2nd dimension and pylo cross. Part of this maybe that I bloomed out this second generation TON crosses. The gw X cc will be nice but you will just be behind. This type of cross has been blooming out over the last two years.

You can't go wrong with the sands. Orchid inn has some of the nicest around.


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## leeaun (Oct 30, 2016)

Hi, oh so you have bloomed the gw x cc crosses? How were they in your opinion in terms of how big the flowers were and the quality? Any pictures you can share? I am also very tempted by the GW x pylo cross. 

I saw that Sam is also offering another 2 more crosses: 

1) Giant wings x 2nd dimension 
2) 2nd dimension x Pylo

Are the above two worth considering as well? 

Thanks! 






paphioland said:


> I was looking at orchid inn page. If I were going to buy roths I would buy the seedlings. There are some nice interesting crosses on there. I don't know if the flasks will be better than the seedlings. If I were forced to get flasks I would try the 2nd dimension and pylo cross. Part of this maybe that I bloomed out this second generation TON crosses. The gw X cc will be nice but you will just be behind. This type of cross has been blooming out over the last two years.
> 
> You can't go wrong with the sands. Orchid inn has some of the nicest around.


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## paphioland (Oct 30, 2016)

leeaun said:


> Hi, oh so you have bloomed the gw x cc crosses? How were they in your opinion in terms of how big the flowers were and the quality? Any pictures you can share? I am also very tempted by the GW x pylo cross.
> 
> I saw that Sam is also offering another 2 more crosses:
> 
> ...



Not this exact cross. Perfection X giant wings, tarantula X perfection, I think Tokyo fantasy X perfection, tarantula X giant wings. Etc etc. they are all Val X mm crosses

I like those two flasks more. They are different. Just get all three then. Lol


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## leeaun (Oct 30, 2016)

Wow that is a huge number of crosses you have flowered. were they up to your expectation? 

Yup I am quite tempted to get all three crosses as they are all quite novel.....




paphioland said:


> Not this exact cross. Perfection X giant wings, tarantula X perfection, I think Tokyo fantasy X perfection, tarantula X giant wings. Etc etc. they are all Val X mm crosses
> 
> I like those two flasks more. They are different. Just get all three then. Lol


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