# Paph. fairrieanum, Easy?



## jjkOC (Jul 19, 2011)

Hi all, I am interested to find out whether Paph. fairrieanum is an easy species to grow and bloom. Have you found fairrieanum amenable to growing into specimen plants, or do they have temperamental tendencies?

I'd love to hear about your experiences with this species! Thanks!


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## Ernie (Jul 19, 2011)

I think they're a little tricky, but doable. Intermediate to barely warm summers, well watered. Winters cool to intermediate, less water. They really don't like high heat in my experience. Not too picky on light, not too dark, not too bright. As long as you keep them happy, they clump up well and fairly fast.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jul 20, 2011)

Definitely not easy to keep alive. Except for my first one, I haven't had one survive much more than a year...That said, getting them to spike is easy, if they stay alive. Completing development to full bloom is more challenging, but overall they fall into the "hard to keep alive, easy to bloom" category. When the bud develops, keep them as cool as possible. That will give you a much darker flower, with much more red in the dorsal. Warmer, its mostly white.


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## Pete (Jul 20, 2011)

for some reason ive always had a hell of a hard time with this species. they grow and flower, but they need a lot more attention than the majority of the others to do so.


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## emydura (Jul 20, 2011)

Every Paph book I have read says this is an easy species to grow. My experience is that it is one of the most difficult. I got a small seedling to flower but from there it struggled and eventually died. You very rarely see them here in Australia which suggests to me that few people can grow them as they would be very common otherwise. 

David


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## paphioboy (Jul 20, 2011)

> You very rarely see them here in Australia which suggests to me that few people can grow them as they would be very common otherwise.



That's true to my observation also. I don't have one but their comparative rarity to other cool growers like insigne, spicerianum, charlesworthii and villosum might suggest that they are a bit more finicky. That said, I know Jason Ong (aquagem) has grown and flowered fairrieanum in Singapore. I am not sure if he has it in his glasshouse though...


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## goldenrose (Jul 20, 2011)

Not easy and I have no trouble with charlie, insigne or villosum, go figure!


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## Shiva (Jul 20, 2011)

I bought my first two fairries from Sam in spring and found one had no roots at all. I potted that one tighly in sphagnum moss and the other one in Aussie Gold. So far, despite the rather hot summer we have here also, they don't seem to suffer. I hose the plants down at least once a day and more than once for the masdevallias. I've even got a bright red coccinea with at least two spikes in 30°C plus heat and partial sun. That one seems to need warmer temps to flower. To quote Rose: Go figure!


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## jtrmd (Jul 20, 2011)

Never had any issues with mine,and wish I would of held on to it.I grew it somewhat warm (high of 90f from time to time) in the Summer ,and on the cool (no cooler than 50f) side in winter.Watered when needed,maybe 2-3 times a week.

I have heard the Alba forms are a pain in the a$$ to keep happy.


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## Erythrone (Jul 20, 2011)

I bought one plant in spring 2010. Easy grower for me.... But I don't know if it will bloom or be easy to keep alive after that!!!


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## goldenrose (Jul 20, 2011)

Interesting thread, thanks for starting it Jennifer!


jtrmd said:


> ....I have heard the Alba forms are a pain in the a$$ to keep happy.


Since my earlier posting, went out to the GH to do my thing before it gets so ungodly hot. I have a regular & an alba. The regular is in the aquarium with the masdies as it had no roots, so in a ditch effort I gave the sphag another try, it seems to be doing fine. If my memory was serving me correctly, I thought I knew where the alba was/is, & sure enough it was there! It's multi-growth, looks great, was repotted this spring in a deep pot. I got the plant, in bloom, 3 growths in 2/'07 & although this one grows fine I think it's only bloomed one time since then


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## jjkOC (Jul 20, 2011)

Hmm... everyone's sharing is making me think this Paph is mysterious in its culture. I've seen many photos of specimen fairrieanums at the shows in Japan, I wonder what their secret is...


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## nikv (Jul 20, 2011)

I find the species to be difficult to keep alive more than a year, but the hybrids make up for it. I find them to be rather easy to cultivate under average household conditions.


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## Rick (Jul 20, 2011)

My experience with this species is that its easy as long as you keep it away from potassium.

My first couple (which I'm nursing back a small division of one) grew like mad and produced lots of division, then started the "amazing shrinking plant" syndrome.

I've picked up one since, and kept it away from alot of ferilizer, and augmenting calcium and magnesium (they have been very responsive to epsom salt addition).

So we'll see how it goes from here, but same for spicerianum. Keep these guys away from monovalent salts and plenty of divalents (ca and mg) and I bet they'd be easy as pie.


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## quaker (Jul 20, 2011)

I bought 3 seedlings over 12months ago. One flowered when only 3 inches across then lost it's roots as did the other 2. I placed them in a small aquarium with a reptile heater on the outside bottom. All three are still living,growing very little { if at all !! )with one of them after all this time developing a few roots.I took this one out of the tank last week so we will see what the future will bring. I must add that on the bottom of the tank I placed some wet sphagnum moss, sealed the top with glass and didn't open it for about 8 months. So upto now I have only one with a few roots. They are not only difficult but VERY difficult in my opinion.

Ed


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## Rick (Jul 20, 2011)

The divisions of the plant I'm presently nursing along were from a plant I purchased in June 2002. It was a fantastic plant, blooming and putting up multiple divisions every year until sometime after I bred it with a plant I purchased in 2004 (probably sometime in 2005). Sometime in 2006 is when it got bad about loosing roots, and growths getting smaller and smaller. I got one seedling back from that breeding and its alive but stubborn about growing well.

Moving both of these plants into the sphag basket system, and changing the nutrition looks like they are turning the corner. Keep in mind the original plant has been abused for 9 years now. 

A clone I got in bloom from Sam a year or so ago (which hadn't been subjected to my old fertilizer regime) is moving along quite nicely even though it is still in a bark mix.

So of all the unsuccessful cases, how many are being grown with no fertilization, or with very low fertilization with calcareous supplementation to the potting mix? You might compare what your feeding regime and potting mix was to QuietAustralian's regime for his Paph concolors


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## Bolero (Jul 21, 2011)

They aren't to bad so far, I have a tray of about 25 out of flask growing well. Initially they didn't do well but over the last couple of months during winter the leaves are growing well and they are looking very nice. Don't grow them to hot though.


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## ran (Jul 21, 2011)

I cant say P. fairrieanum is hard to grow, in fact it is the easiest and fastest Paph out of 20+ species i grow from flask.
These seedlings were deflasked about 2 years ago, and i think the biggest ones are approaching blooming size by now.
I dont treat them very special, they grow in a bark mix with charcoal and perlite added, and get watered 3-4 times a week with ~200-250 ppm hydroponic fertilizer under t5-fluorescents.
Few weeks ago they were much more light green until i started some foliar feeding with kelp extract and epsom salts, now they look much happier 


Greetings from Germany,
chris


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## paphioboy (Jul 21, 2011)

looking very good, chris... Hope they bloom soon..


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## Rick (Jul 21, 2011)

ran said:


> and get watered 3-4 times a week with ~200-250 ppm hydroponic fertilizer under t5-fluorescents.
> Few weeks ago they were much more light green until i started some foliar feeding with kelp extract and epsom salts, now they look much happier
> 
> 
> ...



Can you give us the specs on your fertilizer and make up water?


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## Bolero (Jul 21, 2011)

ran said:


> I cant say P. fairrieanum is hard to grow, in fact it is the easiest and fastest Paph out of 20+ species i grow from flask.
> These seedlings were deflasked about 2 years ago, and i think the biggest ones are approaching blooming size by now.
> I dont treat them very special, they grow in a bark mix with charcoal and perlite added, and get watered 3-4 times a week with ~200-250 ppm hydroponic fertilizer under t5-fluorescents.
> Few weeks ago they were much more light green until i started some foliar feeding with kelp extract and epsom salts, now they look much happier
> ...



That's interesting, I find it one of the harder ones. Maybe it's my climate but I am finding species like hangianum, micranthum, armeniacum, helenae, delenatii and thaianum much easier to grow at the moment. I have the conditions right now for the fairrie's but up until now I was worried I would lose them but I think things are safe now.


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## Ozpaph (Jul 22, 2011)

ran said:


> I cant say P. fairrieanum is hard to grow, in fact it is the easiest and fastest Paph out of 20+ species i grow from flask.
> These seedlings were deflasked about 2 years ago, and i think the biggest ones are approaching blooming size by now.
> I dont treat them very special, they grow in a bark mix with charcoal and perlite added, and get watered 3-4 times a week with ~200-250 ppm hydroponic fertilizer under t5-fluorescents.
> Few weeks ago they were much more light green until i started some foliar feeding with kelp extract and epsom salts, now they look much happier
> ...


Magnificent growing, congrats.
Please share as much detail as you can. If under T5, do you have a light meter to give us some readings?


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## ran (Jul 22, 2011)

Rick said:


> Can you give us the specs on your fertilizer and make up water?


Hi Rick,
i use reverse osmosis water with advanced nutrients micro and bloom (i dont use the "grow" formula) added to 250 ppm. Rarely they do get a top dressing with a teaspoon or so of crushed limestone. i never bothered with a ph measurement of the water though....



Ozpaph said:


> Magnificent growing, congrats.
> Please share as much detail as you can. If under T5, do you have a light meter to give us some readings?



The plants are under a total of 120 watts of a t5 fixture, 20 inches from the light away. i dont have a lightmeter, but they are now quite far from the light, seems they dont enjoy the bright conditions the multis like.
i also have additional bottom heat, min temperature is 20 C at night.


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## Rick (Jul 23, 2011)

ran said:


> Hi Rick,
> i use reverse osmosis water with advanced nutrients micro and bloom (i dont use the "grow" formula) added to 250 ppm. Rarely they do get a top dressing with a teaspoon or so of crushed limestone. i never bothered with a ph measurement of the water though....




The product info on the Advanced Nutrients foods are confusing, but may be making my point about low potassium tolerance for this species.

The Micro portion of the mix has lots of calcium (a big allotment of Calcium nitrate) and very little potassium. I see one label that has NPK of 5 0 1 and then an analysis showing N at 2% and Ca at 2.4%, 0.1% Mg, with no K listed at all even though potassium nitrate is listed as one of the ingredients and no magnesium salts are listed??? The Bloom and Grow formulas have potassium and magnesium salts listed with nothing listed in the analysis of final magnesium concentration. And then you have periodic top dressings of crushed limestone to compensate even more for the reduced K in their formula. Overall, it appears that you would be supplying your paphs with a more balanced application of Ca/Mg/K then what most of us probably would derive from our fertilizer mixes. The greening up after epsom salt application suggests your addition of divalent cations is even better now.

The Advanced Nutrition products are intriguing, and may provide a good alternative paph fertilizer that's relatively lower in K.


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## Justin (Jul 23, 2011)

chris those are some spotless seedlings. great growing.

I have one that grows fine. It bloomed one year, but then the next year's bud blasted after the spike grew and the bud was about to open. It puts out new growths and is clumping up now so I am hoping it will spike this winter.


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## NeoNJ (Jul 25, 2011)

I agree with Emydura.....every book says this is an Easy species to grow and flower. I've had mine for awhile now, and its done nothing - hasn't even had a new growth. I don't know if this is just a slow grower or a difficult species.......if I don't see anything happening, it will move closer to the trash bin ....LOL


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## Rick (Jul 25, 2011)

NeoNJ said:


> I agree with Emydura.....every book says this is an Easy species to grow and flower. I've had mine for awhile now, and its done nothing - hasn't even had a new growth. I don't know if this is just a slow grower or a difficult species.......if I don't see anything happening, it will move closer to the trash bin ....LOL



They grow real fast during the season (now). Try repotting in some out of the box method, and dilute your fertilizer down 1/4 to 1/8 strength.


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## NeoNJ (Jul 25, 2011)

Rick said:


> They grow real fast during the season (now). Try repotting in some out of the box method, and dilute your fertilizer down 1/4 to 1/8 strength.



Now that I think of it ..... I have a few species Paphs that "aren't doing a thing" --- Charlesworthi, niveum, bellatulum (was infested with mealies, and had to repot)....the insigne and spicerianum are both growing very very slowly... the Druid Springs isn't doing a bloody thing either !

The only 2 that are growing are Paph lowii and Paph haynaldianum. 
Had another Magic Lantern that blasted - right after the Fumi's Delight blasted - so all I can say is this "NOW" growing season isn't doing so well for me or my Paphs.....

My Paph Delrosi is outside (I'm trying to "kill it" in order to scare it into doing something, like BLOOM).


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## Rick (Jul 25, 2011)

NeoNJ said:


> Now that I think of it ..... I have a few species Paphs that "aren't doing a thing" --- Charlesworthi, niveum, bellatulum (was infested with mealies, and had to repot)....the insigne and spicerianum are both growing very very slowly... the Druid Springs isn't doing a bloody thing either !
> 
> The only 2 that are growing are Paph lowii and Paph haynaldianum.
> Had another Magic Lantern that blasted - right after the Fumi's Delight blasted - so all I can say is this "NOW" growing season isn't doing so well for me or my Paphs.....
> ...



I'd try a different strategy. Charlesworthii and spicerianum shouldn't be on the list of "tough to grow" for just about anyone.

You might repot and consider the Advanced Nutrient "micro" food that Chris is using.


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## emydura (Jul 26, 2011)

Rick said:


> I'd try a different strategy. Charlesworthii and spicerianum shouldn't be on the list of "tough to grow" for just about anyone.
> 
> You might repot and consider the Advanced Nutrient "micro" food that Chris is using.



I'd agree with you Rick on spicerianum. It is a weed. But I don't find charlesworthii that easy to grow. My plants survive rather than thrive.

David


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## NeoNJ (Jul 26, 2011)

Rick said:


> I'd try a different strategy. Charlesworthii and spicerianum shouldn't be on the list of "tough to grow" for just about anyone.
> 
> You might repot and consider the Advanced Nutrient "micro" food that Chris is using.



I don't really have a clear understanding of what the "Advanced Nutrient micro food" is ? Is it a specific brand of fertilizer ?

I currently use Dyna-Gro for Orchids.


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## Rick (Jul 26, 2011)

NeoNJ said:


> I don't really have a clear understanding of what the "Advanced Nutrient micro food" is ? Is it a specific brand of fertilizer ?
> 
> I currently use Dyna-Gro for Orchids.



Dyna-Gro Orchids looks like a typical balanced fertilizer with more potassium than calcium and magnesium.

I googled the Advanced Nutrient food line that Chris in Germany is using. The "micro" food has more calcium than potassium.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jul 26, 2011)

I find neither spicerianum or charlesworthii to be that easy. I would rank charlesworthii along with fairreanum in terms of difficulty. Maybe spicerianum is a touch easier, but none are as easy as insigne or villosum.


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## emydura (Jul 27, 2011)

Eric Muehlbauer said:


> I find neither spicerianum or charlesworthii to be that easy. I would rank charlesworthii along with fairreanum in terms of difficulty. Maybe spicerianum is a touch easier, but none are as easy as insigne or villosum.



I agree with you on charlesworthii. The easiest from that group for me is gratrixianum. A rampant grower and much easier to flower than insigne.

David


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## NeoNJ (Jul 27, 2011)

charlesworthii is listed as being "easy species to grow and flower ......" in
Birks book, as is fairreanum. Infact, fairreanum is listed as "...one of the easiest paphiopedilum species to grow and flower" in the book.

So I don't know why my charlesworthii and fairreanum aren't growing ....


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## emydura (Jul 27, 2011)

NeoNJ said:


> charlesworthii is listed as being "easy species to grow and flower ......" in
> Birks book, as is fairreanum. Infact, fairreanum is listed as "...one of the easiest paphiopedilum species to grow and flower" in the book.
> 
> So I don't know why my charlesworthii and fairreanum aren't growing ....



According to Birk just about everything is easy to grow.

tigrinum - "This species is one of the easiest to grow and flower".
papuanum - "this species is an easy plant to grow and flower".
purpuratum - "this species is an easy plant to grow and flower".
hookerae - "this species is an easy plant to grow and flower".
armeniacum - "This is an easy species to cultivate".

I could go on and on. Most of us are obviously very poor growers. The book lacks credibility for this reason alone.

Having said that Birk is not alone on fairrianum and charlesworthii. Most other books have also said they are easy to grow. Certainly not my experience.

David


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## Rick (Jul 27, 2011)

emydura said:


> According to Birk just about everything is easy to grow.
> 
> tigrinum - "This species is one of the easiest to grow and flower".
> papuanum - "this species is an easy plant to grow and flower".
> ...



I would agree that nothing is hard to grow in Birks book. There are some subtle tips he gives that I guess make some easier than otherwise. And a few small cautions that hint of problems for some species. I guess what's missing is the definition of hard or easy or fast or slow. Ultimately I guess if you could find at least one grower who has no problems at all then it must be "easy if you do it right".

One of the benefits of ST is that you can pole a few hundred growers and if you dig deep enough find things that work and things that don't and put some of that hard/easy relativity thing into a more quantitative expression.

Just like at work (where I have to sort through sometimes 100's to 1000's of data points) to see the patterns, I've had to go through maybe up to a dozen or more of my own plants, and then try to combine the methods and results of our fellow growers to generate some patterns to have something new to test.

Breeding plants has given me the opportunity to get larger numbers of plants that I can split into smaller groups, and try different things for a lot less $$ than buying a blooming size plant and being scared to try new things that might kill it.


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## NeoNJ (Jul 27, 2011)

emydura said:


> According to Birk just about everything is easy to grow.
> 
> tigrinum - "This species is one of the easiest to grow and flower".
> papuanum - "this species is an easy plant to grow and flower".
> ...



I guess what really got me thinking was ..... that easy growing doesn't mean easy blooming ! Ta-Dah! I guess you can for sure keep a Paph growing, but to get it to bloom is another story entirely ....

That's what caused me to give up my Paph and Phrag collection a few years ago in the first place .........they grew, but nothing bloomed ! I was tired of seeing "Green Houseplants" all over the place .....and no Flowers!

So I started buying Paphs "In Bud" which was great .....I got to see a Paph in flower. But suddenly realized that I was not able to get it to RE-BLOOM.
Sadly, I trashed my entire collection of Paphs and Phrags....


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## SlipperFan (Jul 27, 2011)

NeoNJ said:


> I guess what really got me thinking was ..... that easy growing doesn't mean easy blooming ! Ta-Dah! I guess you can for sure keep a Paph growing, but to get it to bloom is another story entirely ....
> 
> That's what caused me to give up my Paph and Phrag collection a few years ago in the first place .........they grew, but nothing bloomed ! I was tired of seeing "Green Houseplants" all over the place .....and no Flowers!
> 
> ...



How terrible! Have you started building up your slipper collection again? We are great enablers here, you know!


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jul 27, 2011)

When it comes to paphs, easy growing and easy blooming are radically different concepts. Some of the most difficult paphs to grow- emersonii, mastersianum, violascens, are still relatively easy paphs to bloom. Others, like armeniacum, micranthum, and roth are relatively easy to grow but not easy to bloom. Then you have bellatulum...which is hard to keep alive, but teases you by spiking really easily and blasting even more easily.


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## smartie2000 (Jul 28, 2011)

....I'm trying to move into more phrags since I can bloom and grow them better. Except there is more variety in paphs and plus I keep getting tempted to buy more paphs.

I agree with the above. farrieanum is not easy. I bloomed one, unfortunately it didn't last for a second blooming. I might try again, buying from a plant grown from seed from someone that is not a greenhouse grower, similar to myself.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jul 28, 2011)

I was just checking all my plants today, to see what damage was wrought by the intense heat last week. While my phrags are a disaster, and I have lost all but one of my besseae's, the paphs are OK, and fairreanum is in very good shape, with only minor sunburn that actually occurred when it first went outside in April. Keeping my finger's crossed.............


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## paphioboy (Jul 29, 2011)

emydura said:


> According to Birk just about everything is easy to grow.
> 
> tigrinum - "This species is one of the easiest to grow and flower".
> papuanum - "this species is an easy plant to grow and flower".
> ...



Easy is a relative thing  Doesn't he live in a tropical place and grow everything in rocks, or am I mistaken?


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## Rick (Jul 29, 2011)

paphioboy said:


> Easy is a relative thing  Doesn't he live in a tropical place and grow everything in rocks, or am I mistaken?



I'm not sure where Birk is today, but when he had his collection going, he was in Southern California. He has adventured and studied in the tropics a lot.

I don't know if he has personally cultured every species he writes about or quotes from other growers too.

He could have quoted from some of the best in California, Terry Root, Norito, ...... seems like everything is easy for those guys.

I guess if you can find at least one person who finds a species can turn into an un-stoppable weed should be able to do it for everyone else (its just a matter of finding out their secret).


I am reminded of when I was working the reptile house in Oklahoma. We wanted to maintain a collection of African Chameleons (notoriously difficult). We insisted on keeping several to a cage with a warm muggy atmosphere. They always died. I called around and found out that a handful of "little old ladies" in Southern California just left them loose on trees in their backyards and thrived. Also found a researcher in Texas who had thriving lizards kept one to a cage (no humidity control) with opaque dividers to keep the animals from seeing each other.

Turns out that these lizards prefer a dry Mediterranean climate (not humid rainforest) and the stress of living in close visual proximity is so great it makes them sick. So we opened up the cages to ventilate, and reduced the group size to very low density, and they became as easy as our local fence lizards. The species were not hard, we humans were hard headed to accommodate the lizards needs.


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## goldenrose (Aug 1, 2011)

NeoNJ said:


> ..... I guess you can for sure keep a Paph growing, but to get it to bloom is another story entirely ....
> 
> That's what caused me to give up my Paph and Phrag collection a few years ago in the first place .........they grew, but nothing bloomed ! I was tired of seeing "Green Houseplants" all over the place .....and no Flowers!
> 
> ...





SlipperFan said:


> How terrible! Have you started building up your slipper collection again? We are great enablers here, you know!


:sob::sob::sob: now that you're here - don't do that again. The first step to getting a paph to rebloom is that in needs to be grown well, if you can accomplish that much, you shouldn't be that far to getting it to rebloom. Are you selecting plants that fit your growing conditions? Quite often it's thought if one has a GH, they can grow & bloom a much wider range of plants, I don't think that's always the case. A couple of months ago there were 2 members that brought in blooming hirsutissimums, both grew indoors underlights or supplemented with natural light & these plants bloomed like clockwork for them. For years I've been giving the chill - nothing! These 2 treat their's like warm growing esquirolei, which I think they really have, but I supposedly had one of these too & couldn't get it to bloom either! So it can & will happen with some plants but not an entire collection.


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## NeoNJ (Aug 2, 2011)

goldenrose said:


> :sob::sob::sob: now that you're here - don't do that again. The first step to getting a paph to rebloom is that in needs to be grown well, if you can accomplish that much, you shouldn't be that far to getting it to rebloom. Are you selecting plants that fit your growing conditions? Quite often it's thought if one has a GH, they can grow & bloom a much wider range of plants, I don't think that's always the case. A couple of months ago there were 2 members that brought in blooming hirsutissimums, both grew indoors underlights or supplemented with natural light & these plants bloomed like clockwork for them. For years I've been giving the chill - nothing! These 2 treat their's like warm growing esquirolei, which I think they really have, but I supposedly had one of these too & couldn't get it to bloom either! So it can & will happen with some plants but not an entire collection.



Back then, I had more Phrags than Paphs. Now I seem to have more Paphs than Phrags.....It took me forever to re-build my collection. The difference is now I have most of the Paphs under supplemental lighting, but a few of them (lowii, haynaldianum) in a SW windowsill so they get very bright afternoon sunlight. All the others grow in a SE windowsill with very bright Morning light with additional supplemental lighting. If anything I think the Paphs are getting to much light (I had to move a few of them to lower light levels). 

I'm watching them carefully, as I don't want to lose them.


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