# Robin nest INSIDE the greenhouse!



## John M (Aug 15, 2017)

I was watering the other day and I realized that the old hibiscus tree that I've had for about 35 years, has a Robin nest in it! I usually put this plant outside in the summer and I've always wanted a bird to build a nest in it; but, that's never happened. This year, I just didn't get around to moving the tree outside. So, it remained on the bench, just about in the middle of the greenhouse. 

However, once it warms up here in the summer, I leave the back vent open 24/7 and this year a Robin pair decided to fly into the greenhouse and build a nest in my old hibiscus! So cool!

The nest is at the tip of the blue arrow in the photos.


----------



## Gilda (Aug 15, 2017)

aww how sweet:clap:


----------



## John M (Aug 15, 2017)

I took this photo a few minutes ago. It looks like the baby hatched a couple days ago. I guess the other two eggs have died. I've tried so hard to not disturb the parents from their egg sitting duties; but, they're very skittish and whenver I'd get near the nest, they'd fly off and berate me from the fence just outside the back vent. Also, the tree is on a rolling bench; so, it keeps moving, which must confuse the parents a great deal. Really, it's a pretty dumb place to build a nest! Bird brain! I presume that the other two eggs were chilled too many times while the parents were off the nest. I have to continue to care for my plants. I do know that once Robins have actual babies, they're much more attentive and less prone to fleeing at the first sign of danger (me). I'll be very careful and as considerate as I can be and hope that Mom and Dad successfully raise this little one to fledging age.


----------



## Gilda (Aug 15, 2017)

Eggs don't hatch at same time.. Eggs are laid one a day, babies hatch at different times. The eggs will prob hatch.


----------



## NYEric (Aug 15, 2017)

Omlets!? :evil:


----------



## Gilda (Aug 15, 2017)

NYEric said:


> Omlets!? :evil:



oke:from someone who doesn't have usable stove surface !


----------



## SlipperFan (Aug 15, 2017)

NYEric said:


> Omlets!? :evil:





Gilda said:


> oke:from someone who doesn't have usable stove surface !



heheheh!

I'm amazed the robins haven't abandoned the nest. We once had a robin nest in the eavestrough by our garage door. The birds spooked very easily, and we had to go by there frequently. But they raised their young anyway.


----------



## emydura (Aug 15, 2017)

Fantastic John. What beautifully coloured eggs. Do you have a photo of the parents.?


----------



## John M (Aug 15, 2017)

Gilda said:


> Eggs don't hatch at same time.. Eggs are laid one a day, babies hatch at different times. The eggs will prob hatch.



Of course, that's possible. Anything is possible. After all, the Robins have not necessarily read the same books we have and I did find one website that said the same thing. However, I also found more websites that said incubation begins after the last egg is laid to ensure that all the babies hatch at roughly the same time and all fledge within a day or two of each other. This latter scenario is what I've seen many, countless times. 

Coordinating incubation (by starting after the last egg is laid, not after the first one is laid), ensures that the total number of days the nest contains babies (which make noise and attract attention), is reduced, giving more babies an increased chance of not being predated before fledging. Not being cavity breeders; but, being solitary nesters, the babies are highly exposed and vulnerable in their open-cupped nests, as they are on nearly every predator's dinner menu. Thus, getting the noisy babies all grown up and out as quickly as possible is an advantage and that can only be achieved if they all hatch at the same time and fledge at the same time. It's a statistical advantage for solitary open-nest breeders to have their babies all hatch at the same time and all fledge as soon as possible, more or less all at the same time. So, reducing the time there are babies in the nest down to less than 14 days, from as many as 20 days, helps more babies to reach fledging age without being predated. The sooner the entire brood can leave the nest, the more likely more of them will survive, because there simply are fewer days where the nest contains (noisy), "sitting ducks" for predators to eat. 

Possibly, in the case of my nest in particular, the frequent disturbances and cooling of the eggs that has happened may have caused one or two of the eggs to simply slow down the speed of development and make hatching a little bit less coordinated, instead of killing the embyo(s) outright. So, maybe I will find that one or two of the remaining eggs do hatch. However, Robins generally lay a clutch, one egg each day (usually 3 or 4 eggs, although I have seen as many as 5), until done. Then, they bring all the eggs up to temperature (102*F) and begin serious incubating. This way, all the eggs hatch at about the same time and the babies can fledge at about the same time 12 to 14 days later. Other types of birds that nest in the open; but, begin incubating with the first egg, nest in HUGE collonies. For example: Pelicans. In those cases, there simply is too much food (baby birds), for predators to take....so, while some individuals draw the short stick and end up as dinner, the species still replenishes and population numbers remain stable. 

There are other types of birds that typically begin incubating with the first egg; thus they hatch at different times. A lot of cavity breeders do this. Psittacines (Parrot type birds), are a good example. They lay one egg every other day and begin incubating with the first egg and then they hatch two days apart. In the case of Budgies, you can have newborns in the same nest with babies that are 10 days old. The need to have all the babies fledge the nest as soon as possible, all at the same time, is not as great. The nature of being in a tree (or some other), cavity, provides much more protection from predators to such a degree that the behaviour of beginning incubation only after the last egg has been laid did not evolve as part of the species survival strategy.

This baby in the photo was there yesterday. So, by the time I got back with the camera today, it was at least a day old. However, if you look at the size of it, compared to the eggs around it, it is probably 2 days old. If incubation did start when the first egg was laid, this means that at least one of the other eggs should've hatched by today. I'll have a quick look tomorrow and let you know. I'll be surprised if there is another hatching; but, it'll be interesting to find out.


----------



## John M (Aug 15, 2017)

emydura said:


> Fantastic John. What beautifully coloured eggs. Do you have a photo of the parents.?



Have you ever heard the term "Robin's egg blue"? That's what is meant by that. It's a very distinctive shade of blue.

No, I don't have photos of the parents. It didn't occur to me. Robins are so common, it makes me feel like everybody knows what a Robin looks like. However, of course, that's a dumb assumption. Of course, they're not global. This is a North American species. Now that they have at least one baby, Mom and Dad still do spook; but, they don't go far and sometimes they come back to just inside the greenhouse to scold me. If I have my camera ready, I should be able to get a photo of one of them with their hackles up and looking quite pissed off! I'll give it a go tomorrow.

BTW: For those not familiar with the North American Robin.....
They're quite good at masonry. They build their nests out of mud, strengthened with grass and then lined with softer grass. Each nest will hold up for a season, even a rainy and wet one. Although, many pairs do build a new nest for each clutch, it is common for pairs to reuse a good, sturdy nest over and over in the same season. Each pair of birds will raise 2 to 4 broods in that nest. This year, there was also a nest on top of the light fixture just outside of my door. The first brood hatched in May. The last one, their 3rd, left the nest in early August.


----------



## abax (Aug 15, 2017)

Not fair John! You get robins and I get skunks!!!

Hatchlings are so ugly cute with scruffy feathers here and
there and that HUGE open mouth. Kinda makes you want
to dig worms for 'em.


----------



## John M (Aug 16, 2017)

LOL! Oh, I'm so happy that I have Robins and not Skunks in the greenhouse!
Yeah, there's something about a naked baby bird that makes me want to "help" it. However, it's best to leave it alone. When I was a kid and really keen on birds and bugs, etc., I "helped" a lot of baby birds that would've been better off if I'd just left them alone. 'Learned that lesson a long time ago. However, I do love watching baby birds grow up and turn into beautiful, sleek adults. I used to raise fowl as well as some cage birds. I think I'd like to get back into that one day. I've not had any chickens, ducks, pheasants, peafowl for about 30 years and it's been about 20 years since I kept finches. I think I'd like to get back into raising Zebra Finches and Gouldian Finches again. In the 90's, I had Zebra finches, Gouldian finches, Bengalese Finches, Mannikins, Diamond doves, Pekin Robins and Button quail living loose in the greenhouse from October through March each year. The Zebra finches, Gouldian Finches, Bengalese Finches, Diamond doves and Button Quail were constantly raising families all over the greenhouse. It was VERY cool! I finally gave up letting them roam free when I got tired of the damage they did to the orchids and also when I began to have an insect problem; but, I couldn't spray because it would hurt the birds. Then, I thought I was going to have to move, so I donated all my small birds to a local public aviary.


----------



## Ozpaph (Aug 16, 2017)

Isnt nature grand?


----------



## abax (Aug 16, 2017)

Some times, Ozpaph, some times. LOL!


----------



## John M (Aug 17, 2017)

emydura said:


> Fantastic John. What beautifully coloured eggs. Do you have a photo of the parents.?



I was busy yesterday; but, I got some more photos today. 

The baby is still by itself, no more eggs hatched. The baby is at least 4 days old; probably 5. So, I think it's pretty safe to assume the other two eggs have died, or were never fertile.

"Mom" was not pleased with me being near her baby; so, she came quite close to scold me and I got a few photos of her. I know it's the mother because only the female broods the eggs and young. The male sometimes helps in nest building (but not always) and he helps with feeding the babies. The male also has brighter red feathering.


----------



## Gilda (Aug 17, 2017)

Yep, gonna be a spoiled only child


----------



## eteson (Aug 17, 2017)

Amazing! They choosed a very nice place


----------



## Happypaphy7 (Aug 17, 2017)

Good to read this thread!
I once got close to their nest once without realizing it was even there and I almost got hit by the birds flying over my face. Phew~

The nest was at my eye level on a fairly small tree. 
I was rather worried cats got them.


----------



## abax (Aug 17, 2017)

Goood mama bird! She does look a bit peeved at you,
doesn't she?


----------



## emydura (Aug 18, 2017)

Thanks for the photos John. Yes, not a species you see around here.  

I assume it is a common garden bird? It looks more like a Thrush which you see commonly in gardens here. These are mostly introduced from Europe. I think everywhere has birds called robins but they are generally unrelated. This is an example of what we call a robin - a male Flame Robin. You won't see these nesting in your garden though. They normally breed high up in the mountains in the summer and come down to the lower Canberra area in winter.


----------



## John M (Aug 18, 2017)

emydura said:


> Thanks for the photos John. Yes, not a species you see around here.
> 
> I assume it is a common garden bird? *Yes, very common around here. They're almost the first birds to migrate North in the spring (arriving well before the snow is gone) and one of the earliest to begin nesting......and there's plenty of them. They spend a great deal of their day hunting for insects and earthworms in the short grass of mowed lawns and they prefer to nest in trees and on buildings, close to the ground....normally about 5' to 10' high. The plentiful areas of mowed grass with many compact, ornamental trees, along with all the common types of back-yard infrastructure (fences, pergolas, etc.), typical of urban and suburban environments, provides them with ideal habitat.*It looks more like a Thrush which you see commonly in gardens here. *Yes, they are actually a Thrush.* These are mostly introduced from Europe. I think everywhere has birds called robins but they are generally unrelated. *Right. The American Robin was called "a Robin" because it reminded people of the English Robin. There is also the Pekin Robin (commonly sold as a cage bird here years ago; but, very rare now), which also looks and behaves like it might be related; but, I bet it's not....at least, not very closely.* This is an example of what we call a robin - a male Flame Robin. You won't see these nesting in your garden though. *Too bad! That's BEAUTIFUL! Even the male American Robin here doesn't have colour that bright. What a gorgeous little bird!* They normally breed high up in the mountains in the summer and come down to lower Canberra area in winter.



Angela, notice that in a couple of my photos, "Mom" has raised her head feathers? They don't have any sort of crest; but, they do seem to think that they do because when they get "peeved", they raise their head feathers, which even gives them a "pissed off" look. Of course, when protecting their young, they also hurl insults at the intruder as well as click their beaks, by snapping their beak shut, hard and fast. It's their Robin version of growling like a junk-yard dog to let you know they mean business.


----------



## PaphMadMan (Aug 18, 2017)

emydura said:


> Thanks for the photos John. Yes, not a species you see around here.
> 
> I assume it is a common garden bird? It looks more like a Thrush which you see commonly in gardens here...



The American Robin is a type of Thrush (genus Turdus). This genus has world-wide distribution so similar birds occur in many places, though the coloring differs.


----------



## abax (Aug 18, 2017)

The Flame Robin is a gorgeous bird. Is it common in your
area emydura?

I didn't notice the "crest" until you mentioned it John. I just noticed she was giving you the stink eye that's fairly
common with skunks just before that lethal tail comes
up. Once the tail is up and they stomp their feet it's too
late to run! The message is pretty clear from the robin and our skunks. As an aside, I was walking in the woods
one day and got knocked to the ground by two Pileated
Woodpeckers...very serious about nest protecting.


----------



## emydura (Aug 19, 2017)

abax said:


> The Flame Robin is a gorgeous bird. Is it common in your
> area emydura?
> 
> g.



Locally common I guess. You need to know where they are. You won't see them in parks and gardens. They don't tend to be around human settlement much. In summer you need to drive up into the mountains where the alpine meadows are. They are much easier to see in winter when they come down from the mountains and congregate on farms and such around Canberra. There is a farm only a few minutes drive from my place where I often walk and photograph birds. You can see them in large numbers at this time of year. You can be standing in the middle of a field and you are surrounded by all these Flame Robins perched on fence posts and flowering stalks. It is stunning. 

There are several different species of these type of robins. This Scarlet Robin is another one you can see in Canberra and can be often found in parks within the city (as long as there are some trees or shrubs). I took this photo only a few hundred metres from my place down by the creek. Again, I only see these in winter in Canberra itself. Flame Robins tend to prefer more open areas whereas Scarlet Robins like a bit more vegetation cover, although you can see them together at times.


----------



## SlipperFan (Aug 19, 2017)

That bird definitely has a "WOW!" factor.


----------



## abax (Aug 19, 2017)

Sort of makes our robins look a little homely, doesn't it? I
like our plain robins for their song in spring more than for
looks really.

emydura, I never got over to Canberra when I visited. Now I wish I had! You've got one BIG damn country!


----------



## cnycharles (Aug 20, 2017)

Nice pics from both. 
North American robins can be quite visible, quite generally used to people and being very active in the human landscape and even nesting on objects over doorways or in front of windows under overhangs. But friend Matt who helped me start native orchid hunting and who works with the cornell ornithology lab told me there are like two sub races or personality types of American robins. The other is very shy and secretive living in deep woods and flies away at the first sign of people. Since he mentioned this, I've observed the woodsy variety while looking for orchids or other interesting things

The one we know I think took advantage of space cleared by humans and so seems to the more common type, but before widespread open areas were cleared forests were more the norm
I call them the 'tourist bird' because they can be noisy gregarious and often acting in a belligerent fashion  . I've often seen them leave a safe spot along the road to fly directly in front of my car... if they were bothered why don't they fly 'away' from the car  kind of a 'duh' factor, and they can be scattered over the landscape sometimes fighting each other


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## John M (Aug 20, 2017)

Gettin' bigger!


----------



## Stone (Aug 21, 2017)

emydura said:


> Thanks for the photos John. Yes, not a species you see around here.
> 
> I assume it is a common garden bird? It looks more like a Thrush which you see commonly in gardens here. These are mostly introduced from Europe. I think everywhere has birds called robins but they are generally unrelated. This is an example of what we call a robin - a male Flame Robin. You won't see these nesting in your garden though. They normally breed high up in the mountains in the summer and come down to the lower Canberra area in winter.


David, the American robin is more like our blackbird in size and habits. Nothing like our little guys. When I first moved down here my neighbour said they were very common a decade ago. He said the back fence was ''red'' with them sometimes and 7 years ago I did see many during winter. I haven't seen one for years.


----------



## Ozpaph (Aug 22, 2017)

Great photos, David. What lens etc?


----------



## emydura (Aug 22, 2017)

Stone said:


> David, the American robin is more like our blackbird in size and habits. Nothing like our little guys. When I first moved down here my neighbour said they were very common a decade ago. He said the back fence was ''red'' with them sometimes and 7 years ago I did see many during winter. I haven't seen one for years.



Thanks Mike. We get lots of blackbirds here. They do so sound very similar in nature. Bush birds are declining in general in Australia. I don't know many places where you see the Flame Robin, but where I do they are found in high numbers. 



Ozpaph said:


> Great photos, David. What lens etc?



Thanks Stephen. The setup is a Nikon D800 camera with a Sigma 150-600 mm Sports lens and a Sigma 1.4 TC. Unfortunately the TC is now completely stuck on the camera and I can't remove it. I sent it in for repair and the quote is $500 to take off the TC and fix the mount. I'm not sure if it is worth it. The Nikon D850 is just about to be released. I can still use the Nikon D800 as a dedicated bird camera. I just can't take off the TC and put on another lens.


----------



## Ozpaph (Aug 22, 2017)

Thank-you. That's a bummer.


----------



## John M (Aug 26, 2017)

Ooookaaaay......gettin' back to my Robin, here he is sitting up on the edge of the nest, just about ready to fledge. My guess is that he's about 13 days old now. He'll probably leave the nest tomorrow.


----------



## emydura (Aug 26, 2017)

Fantastic John. It is hard to get your head round that chicks could develop that quickly.


----------



## John M (Aug 26, 2017)

Yes, David. I get the feeling that I could've just stood there and watch the chick grow! Going from a naked, blind, deaf, helpless blob of flesh the size of a large grape to this in 13 days is just crazy! However, I knew they grow fast, which is why I decided to allow the parents to continue "squatting" in my greenhouse. It's been cool to watch; but, also a MAJOR pain! I'm busy and I need to work in the greenhouse and the nest is in a tree that is on a rolling bench. It's been difficult to say the least to get anything done and still not cause the parents to abandon the chick. I'm glad I have the photos and that I had the experience; but, I'll not let birds nest in the greenhouse again....too difficult to work around. Also, I've got 120 newly potted out flasks of Phrags on a nearby bench. At one point, one of the parents was scolding me from that bench and he/she was having a hissy fit while hopping all over my seedlings! It occured to me that if either of the parents decide that they should dig for worms in those compots, it could cost me tens of thousands of dollars! I gotta be sensible. So, this was fun; but, I'll not allow it to happen again next year! I look forward to this little one moving out into the big world this weekend. Then, I'll start closing the vent in the evening before dark to discourage any ideas of this pair deciding to squeeze in just one more brood before they get the urge to call it a season and migrate South.


----------



## abax (Aug 26, 2017)

My goodness, he looks like a real bird now!!! Congratulations dad! John, there's a fabric at Charlie's
Greenhouse Supply that you can place over the louvers
that only blocks 1% of moving air. I've been using it for
years and it only has to be changed a couple of times a
year when it gets dirty. Love the stuff.


----------



## John M (Aug 27, 2017)

Thanks for the info, Angela. I've been thinking that I should put up something like that to help keep out bugs too. However, one thing I do really, really love in the summer is the hummingbirds coming in to feed on the Impatiens and Passiflora flowers inside the greenhouse. I'd really miss that. However, I've also been thinking of installing some sort of evaporative cooling at the back vent, which would also keep ALL the birds out. This summer has been very comfortable here; but, the previous 2 years were incredibly hot and the Phrags and Disas suffer in that kind of extreme heat.


----------

