# Terry Root and the Orchid Zone



## heliomum (Mar 5, 2008)

The prince of paphs, the king of orchids, Terry Root. I first heard of him in the book _Orchid Fever_ by Eric Hansen (I highly recommend this book) Anyway, Terry Root has a mystique surrounding him. I have tried for hours to find the address of the Orchid Zone. I only could find a P.O Box and a phone number. I called the number, he picked up, and after recovering from mild shock from it actually being him, I asked him where the Orchid Zone was. He said it was wholesale only, *bla**bla**bla* he appreciated me calling, *bla**bla**bla* and that's it. Although it was pretty cool talking to him, I didn't get anywhere. So the big question is,WHERE THE HECK IS THE ORCHID ZONE? oke::clap::evil:


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## isaias m rolando (Mar 5, 2008)

I have visited him only twice. He is indeed a character. He can be a very nice person in a moment and same day next minutes he could be very nasty.

But nobody can deny he has contribuited a lot to slipper history, Paph, Phrag... and now he is playing with Masdevallias.

It is true he only deals with wholesale, but all of us are waiting his last hybrids or improved species to buy...

*" al cesar lo que es del cesar..."*


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## swamprad (Mar 5, 2008)

Does anyone have any idea what constitutes wholesale? Is it a minimum dollar amount, or minimum quantity per cross, or proof of intention to resale (i.e. sales tax i.d.)? Because if wholesale means a minimum purchase amount of, say, $500, an individual or a small group of individuals could handle that...just thinkin'......


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## SlipperKing (Mar 5, 2008)

We (society) have done that in the past with OZ. A group of us pull monies together and order, he had a min dollar amount


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## ohio-guy (Mar 5, 2008)

Sign me up! 
Is anyone else interested in getting a group together to buy some from him? Since we function as an online society in a way, perhaps we could get a big order together and then have someone split it up and forward it on. 
I am not sure how to go about seeing if he would take an order, if he has a listing of plants, or if someone out in California would be able to go and pick up an order. 
When societies have ordered in the past, what was his minimum order?


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## Candace (Mar 5, 2008)

The OZ is about 2 hours away from me. I plan on going and dropping some $ when my 2nd g.h. is up and running. You need to plan on spending a couple thousand dollars or it's simply not worth his time. There's no "listing" that I'm aware of as he only sells in bloom plants now and what is in bloom changes on a daily basis. I have a couple friends that are customers of his and I will tag along with them one day. I look forward to meeting a premier breeder. His plants are top of the line.


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## NYEric (Mar 5, 2008)

Yep, definately [did I spell that right?] top of the line. Min. order is in thousands. Let me know when somebody is getting together an order and i'll add in for a few plants. Can you guess what kind?


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## Candace (Mar 5, 2008)

Eric, let me repeat...there's no list so how do you plan on doing a group order Ain't going to happen. Buy them through ebay, that's where many are showing up now from resellers. And like I mentioned before, there were tons of OZ plants being resold at the POE last weekend.


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## paphioland (Mar 5, 2008)

Candace said:


> Eric, let me repeat...there's no list so how do you plan on doing a group order Ain't going to happen. Buy them through ebay, that's where many are showing up now from resellers. And like I mentioned before, there were tons of OZ plants being resold at the POE last weekend.



Like you said Terry sells *mostly* in bloom. So the plants that are showing up on ebay are *almost all *pot plants which is fine but people should know that.

Being that Terry rarely sells paphs not in bloom except crosses which he has an abundance you will most of the time have to either get pot grade plants which from the OZ can be pretty good. Or pay based on flower quality. That is probably why there is no list because the amount of paphs sold out of bloom is not that large. However, there have been lists in the past. The last one I received was about 3 yrs ago.

Can you blame Terry for wholesale only. An operation that well run and of that size takes alot of work. Hagling over a 50 dollar plant for 20 minutes would be super annoying especially considering the work that has to be done and the over head of the operation he is running. If he wanted to do that he would have to hire more employees and anyone who has owned or has family who has owned their own business knows the headache invlolved with employees


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## NYEric (Mar 5, 2008)

Candace said:


> Eric, let me repeat...there's no list so how do you plan on doing a group order Ain't going to happen.


 Well, if someone here PM'd and said " Hey I'm going by OZ and getting some besseae hybrids, maybe album ones. Are you interested?" What do you think my response would be?


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## slippertalker (Mar 5, 2008)

I agree, he sells almost entirely plants that are in bloom. That way he can grade them and price accordingly. I believe the minimum is at least $1000. and preferably more.

You could probably easily figure out what is in bloom now- complex hybrids, phrags, paph fairreanum and other species, and pretty soon the parvis will bloom.


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## DavidH (Mar 5, 2008)

I'm not sure where you guys get your information about Terry, but it doesn't appear as firsthand. He's a really likeable guy and has a variety of interests in life beyond orchids. Both he and his wife are great people and I count them as friends. He is wholesale only, but you don't necessarily need to spend thousands. Harold Koopowitz and Norito Hasegawa will go up there and pay a few hundred dollars (or more) for a single breeding plant. 

He simply chooses not to deal with the multitudes of individual growers who are looking for only one or two plants.

If you're looking for something specific, I recommend you send a note to Paphiness Orchids and ask Dean to look for something specific as he visits the OZ about once a month.

You can also join the Paph Guild and attend the yearly meeting in California and meet Terry in person, as well as the top paph hybridizers from around the USA and the world. This year, Fumi (can't remember his full name) from Japan and his son attended, Olaf Gruss was there, Terry Root spoke, Norito Hasegawa and Harold Koopowitz attended, Jerry Fischer was there with his wife, and a number of other hybridizers from Taiwan and Hawaii as well.

On the southeast coast, there's the Paph Symposium with Frank Smith and on the east coast there's one other paph group and I understand several growers/hybridizers from the area attend that one as well.


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## NYEric (Mar 5, 2008)

DavidH said:


> I'm not sure where you guys get your information about Terry, but it doesn't appear as firsthand. He's a really likeable guy and has a variety of interests in life beyond orchids. Both he and his wife are great people ..


I take exception to the suggestion that anyone here stated otherwise. 


DavidH said:


> He is wholesale only, but you don't necessarily need to spend thousands. Harold Koopowitz and Norito Hasegawa will go up there and pay a few hundred dollars (or more) for a single breeding plant.


Well gee, most of us aren't Harold or Norito.:wink: Therefore I guess we have to spend at least $1K!


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## Candace (Mar 5, 2008)

> Well gee, most of us aren't Harold or Norito. Therefore I guess we have to spend at least $1K!


 I agree, and duh, isn't it fair to say they've spent thousands and will continue to spend thousands there. Of course, as respected breeders in their own right they can buy as much or little as they choose. They've already proved they aren't going to waste time by dinking over a $50 plant, like Ken/paphioland stated.

DavidH, all your suggestions about joining those forums are nice ones but have nothing to do with your point about "us" not having the correct info. Yes, I've never been as I've stated, but I trust what Ken/pahioland and my 2 friends who are resellers that shop there weekly tell me. And I don't believe any of us have said one thing negative about his business or practices. In fact, all I see is positive statements about his breeding and plants. It is, what it is, and it works great for him. Rock on!


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## Candace (Mar 5, 2008)

Oh, Eric, you made the same mistake I did last week....album besseae...ha! And I'll quote what you said to me last week..."Wishful thinking.":rollhappy:

Seriously, though, it's tough shopping with someone else's money. You'd have to be VERY specific with what you wanted. Which is hard, if you don't know what's available. For example, I had to tell my friend exactly the cross I wanted, how much I wanted to spend, what pot size and what to look for in the flower...


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## NYEric (Mar 5, 2008)

Candace said:


> Oh, Eric, you made the same mistake I did last week....album besseae...ha! And I'll quote what you said to me last week..."Wishful thinking.":rollhappy:



http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1684&highlight=Saint+Ouen
I said "album besseae hybrids" not besseae album hybrids!


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## NYEric (Mar 5, 2008)

Some server issues!? Heather did you remember to pay the bill!? oke:


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## paphlady (Mar 5, 2008)

swamprad said:


> Does anyone have any idea what constitutes wholesale? Is it a minimum dollar amount, or minimum quantity per cross, or proof of intention to resale (i.e. sales tax i.d.)? Because if wholesale means a minimum purchase amount of, say, $500, an individual or a small group of individuals could handle that...just thinkin'......



It all depends on how each wholesale place conduct its business. If you are a buyer from the same state (e.g. you're in CA and the place is in CA), you are required to have a business license to buy from a wholesale place. Most wholesale places also have a min item # and/or $ amount. With that said, there's always exceptions (Costco is one). The biggest thing is how sales tax gets collected and given to the gov't. So it boils down to what each business decides its "sales" policy is.


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## Sirius (Mar 5, 2008)

David,

I don't think anyone is disrespecting Terry in this thread. Isaias simply said Terry could be nice one moment, and nasty the next. I have heard this very same opinion from at least two other people who have dealt with Terry face to face. I have never met the man, and at this point I have no desire to meet him. 

As for Terry's plants and business practices, I think he has made some very interesting choices. I respect the fact that Terry is wholesale only. That is a purely practical business model. I can appreciate the fact that Terry is a very talented breeder. I love the fact that he doesn't have a website with photos of his plants. What would be the point if you aren't selling to the public, right? I know several breeders who do sell to the public and their websites are so crappy and outdated it makes me want to punch them in the face, but I digress. 

Could I walk into Terry's greenhouse and drop $5000 on plants? You bet I could. But I won't, and here is my reason.

Terry is like a baseball card seller who opens all the packs, takes out the rookie cards, special chase cards and gum, and leaves you the common player cards. Then he charges you a premium for them. For the same amount of money, you could buy plants from equally talented breeders that have not been bloomed, culled and sold as leftovers. I am not saying that his pot plants aren't beautiful, or worth what you pay for them. But the whole practice smells funny. With that said, I own a couple of Orchid Zone plants, and I even have some of Terry's seedlings. But when I want to spend crazy money, I shop somewhere else.


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## paphioland (Mar 5, 2008)

To get the quality of plant that you buy from the OZ as highly select you would likely have to bloom out so many of other nurseries crosses and get lucky. Growing space is expensive, what do you do with the pot plants you bloom out? I don't want them and selling them is a big pain. Time is valuable too. So buying 100 of a species is just not practical. Potting watering and caring for that many orchids is highly work intensive.

Anyways my opinion is that Terry is the man and has always been an honest gentleman as a sales person, treats people respectfully who are repectful themselves, patient teacher and is a very interesting character-I mean this in a good way. It is amazing how noncondescending he is given his knowledge and experience. I have never had a single negative experience with Terry or the OZ but I have with many many others in the orchid world. I prob do 90% of my buying at the OZ and I am a very satisfied customer. The OZ has been so good it is hard for me to buy stuff in other places because I know I get great "customer service" and great plants with the OZ so why risk it on a product I am not sure about? Also his wife Sam who helps with the business is very knowledgable, honest and a great asset to the business. The thing with the OZ is that there is no crap. You get what you ask for or is told to you. There is no fluff.


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## Candace (Mar 5, 2008)

I want to go...:> I guess I look at it this way. I'm at the stage with my collection that I'd rather buy something great and spend much more than buying 15 so-so plants. There is a lottery type fun growing out a bunch of plants and finding a winner, but it sure it nice knowing what you're buying ahead of time. There are definate pluses for both scenarios. And as for him selling his culls. Well, his culls are probably much nicer than keepers for other vendors:> I know for a fact the person I know bought 2 paphs last month and turned around and got them awarded the next week. Not that I'm advocating that as you all know my opinion on this subject!:rollhappy:

Now I just need my 2nd g.h. up. Anyone good at digging trenches and will work for close to free??


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## Sirius (Mar 5, 2008)

Candace,

I once refinished a hardwood floor for a six pack of Bud Light and a large pizza. If you can meet these terms, I can have my agent (wife) look over our schedule.


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## paphlady (Mar 5, 2008)

PHRAG said:


> I don't think anyone is disrespecting Terry in this thread. Isaias simply said Terry could be nice one moment, and nasty the next. I have heard this very same opinion from at least two other people who have dealt with Terry face to face.


I'll bet you that they are such angels and didn't do anything to provoke him either. 



PHRAG said:


> I have never met the man, and at this point I have no desire to meet him.



Reminds me of this quote: *"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance — that principle is contempt prior to investigation."* by Herbert Spencer in _Spiritual Experience_




PHRAG said:


> Terry is like a baseball card seller who opens all the packs, takes out the rookie cards, special chase cards and gum, and leaves you the common player cards. Then he charges you a premium for them. For the same amount of money, you could buy plants from equally talented breeders that have not been bloomed, culled and sold as leftovers. I am not saying that his pot plants aren't beautiful, or worth what you pay for them. But the whole practice smells funny. With that said, I own a couple of Orchid Zone plants, and I even have some of Terry's seedlings. But when I want to spend crazy money, I shop somewhere else.



Similar to Paphioland, there are many people who would rather buy something in bloom and know exactly what they're getting than to invest time, money, g/h space, etc. with no guarantee of a winner. With complex Paphs, the probability is even smaller. And some people just detest gambling. Like Paphioland said, it's work (a hassle) just to dispose of the culls after you bloomed them.

Did you bother to find out from Terry (directly and not through the grapevine, we all know how info can change as it passes from one vine to another) his reasoning behind selling plants in bloom before concluding "the whole practice smells funny"? In another thread, Paphioland mentioned something about him being paranoid that plants get mislabelled. It could be the reason or part of the reason. Who knows.


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## Roth (Mar 5, 2008)

paphlady said:


> I'll bet you that they are such angels and didn't do anything to provoke him either.



Actually, there are a couple of things that could have made Terry unpleasant in the past, and I understand him fully, having been through the same as well. He had some personnal and professionnal problems, including a business divorce together with the fake sanderianum story, and people selling other plants under the Orchid Zone name, along with some more. I remember that in one year he got the complete collection of messes around ( including stolen plants the very same year). 

He had to manage, successfully, some business problems, heavy ones at that, and everyone must understand that for many people, orchids are a hobby, but for the real professionnal growers, it is something very dangerous to manage. They have to have huge income every month, anticipate what could be sold in 2 years, and in Terry's case, I heard once that his costs were in the couple hundreds thousands$ per month during winter. 

One more thing, the fake sanderianum story (again). What I think ( but that's personnal opinion), some of his customers knew ( from me actually, and one Taiwanese bloomed some fake ones) well before that those sands were mislabeled. They bought then many many plants. It seemed strange to me. If you know the apples are sour, you do not go to buy again and again like crazy. Except that this sanderianum story, highly emphasized, alone destroyed for some years Terry's reputation amongst many hobbyists, allowing some other growers ( who spread the rumor) to "catch" the market.

On the other subject, I noticed that he likes to talk with people who have experience, and can be quite quickly "fed up" with the others.



> Similar to Paphioland, there are many people who would rather buy something in bloom and know exactly what they're getting than to invest time, money, g/h space, etc. with no guarantee of a winner. With complex Paphs, the probability is even smaller. And some people just detest gambling. Like Paphioland said, it's work (a hassle) just to dispose of the culls after you bloomed them.



Terry once told me amongst some other reasons that he wanted to maximize his "investment" as well, which is very normal. 

The cost of a plant is:
- motherplants
- lab work ( with non-germinating crosses, or few seedlings produced)
- deflasking ( with some losses) in trays or plugs
- potting in small pots.

After that, it requires to pot from the small pot to the big pot. Sounds stupid, but quite a few people now ( including Terry I think...), went upset to sell in 7 cm pots for US$20 a plant, whilst repotting it and waiting another year would lead to some selected plants at 500-1000+$, and the culls can still be sold 20$.

Plus, as for the roth Rex x Mt Millais and some others, he did the original cross, but there were far, far more "blooming size" plants sold by the resellers than he produced. I think he does not want other people to profit by cheating, buy cheap NBS Charles E x Borneo and pass them at the "Orchid Zone breeding". Terry has had some financial problems with that as well when the first Rex x Mt Millais started to bloom, he got the AQ, was happy, thinking many people would buy from him many plants, and he could reinvest for his breeding program. No way. Many people started to sell the Charles E x Borneo renamed as RxMM.

To the best of my knowledge as well, when it comes to divisions or selected plants, bought directly from him, there is absolutely no "surprises" that the alba is not, or the roth is a sister plant of the plant you though you bought. Sometimes the plants are way overpriced I have heard, but in my case, when I went there myself, it was way underpriced to my mind.

Never forget as well, it is possible to find "cheaper selected plants" for some of the species he sells, but for most of it, he is the best source, and "stable". No "luck" involved. If you want to buy highly selected henryanum, go to the Orchid Zone, you are sure to find what you want, maybe "expensive" according to some, but he has them. 

I got some plants that are apparently much better, for much, much cheaper, but then it is luck and gamble. If I did not want to eat roasted duck in october, and pass through a small shop with collected henryanum in bloom as pot plant, there was no way I could have had highly selected henryanum at extremely cheap price. If I wanted to be sure to get a very selected henryanum in october, I would have paid the price from the Orchid Zone.

Some people will say that they got from this or that nursery a better looking plant than the selected one from the Orchid Zone. Maybe it's true, but it is gambling. Orchid Zone, you pay what you want, and you get what you paid for.

The only thing I am looking now again to buy from him selected divs is someone who is willing to make CITES export permit, as Terry does not like to make them.

Onto the culls subject, it is my experience that with selected parents, a cull one year may surpass the FCC next year, especially in some of the complex, brachys or besseae. Terry sorted out many culls in the besseae and roths, just based on the flower size. So with good growth ( maybe the plant was not happy there!), you can still expect something better than the average plants.

For Paphanatics, actually the Orchid Zone had a partnership with them at a time. Paphanatics had a greenhouse of selected mother plants, made many crosses, and flasked them ( that was a very kind man who died of a brain cancer some years ago). Then Terry would buy many, if not most, of the flasks, grow them and bloom them. Paphanatics would buy back young plants, and some of the very selected plants, and do the next step of breeding. After a while Terry started all his own breeding lines for everything.

The wholesale/retail. Well, I have been through that as well.The problem is that to manage many hobbyists customers (sorry), it requires a lot of time and a lot of emails, and a lot of talks, phone calls... All of that time, either you pay a worker ( you have remember that most people want to talk to the owner anyway, and a worker is paid, so 20 min of phone call to end up with a no-sale is money lost), you do yourself, and the business collapses, because of no time, breeding, accounting, caring of the professionnal customers, the hobbyists, the problems, checking the quality of the plants, paperwork, etc... Terry simply prefers to have open doors from time to time, receive some people from time to time as well, and do wholesale. Most of the time, he will care about his "crop", and he has fewer customers to think of, fewer headaches, fewer unpaid bills.

I remember that many people went to work with the Orchid Zone, thinking that it is very simple. Buy from the Orchid Zone, sell, and make money! Unfortunately, it is not that simple. Prepay to invest in a stock, talk with the customers, reply to many emails, from pleasant to very strange questions ones, pack 3 plants here 7 plants there, make XXXXXX's of invoices, watch many people pay slow, slowly, the cashier's checks rejected... Then the follow up, why my plant has a yellow leaf, why this, why that. It is very time consuming. I do not criticize such customer, just emphasize that no one in the world can do everything. And retail is a very, very hard work.

One last thing, quite a lot of US paph "breeders" in fact come to reload in the Netherlands and Taiwan with cheap species seedlings, that they then sell at a premium with AOS awarded parents. I saw them many times going to Holland, pay as an example tigrinum seedlings (unknown parentage, but genuine) a couple$, and sell them right away as "selected parents". No way. 

The Orchid Zone only sells plant that they know and have bred, and bloom them to be sure they are genuine.


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## heliomum (Mar 5, 2008)

*Answer the Question!*

Although this discussion is great, no one has answered my original question. Where is the Orchid Zone?!


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## DavidH (Mar 5, 2008)

Right outside Moss Landing, CA. Just to the north of Monterrey.


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## Sirius (Mar 5, 2008)

paphlady said:


> I'll bet you that they are such angels and didn't do anything to provoke him either.



Maybe they did. All I know is this: the very people who related to me the stories of which I speak are people I trust. One still buys from Terry to this very day. Once you learn how not to provoke him, I guess you could have a pretty good relationship with the guy. 



paphlady said:


> Reminds me of this quote: *"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance — that principle is contempt prior to investigation."* by Herbert Spencer in _Spiritual Experience_



The bad thing about throwing quotes at people to argue a point is, they never quite get the point across properly. You see, by saying I hold Terry in contempt, you are saying I despise him. The very definition of contempt according to Merriam Webster, is "the act of despising." If you look up the definition of despise, you find that it means "to regard as negligible, worthless, or distasteful." I suggest you re-read my post and point out to me exactly where I called Terry negligible, worthless or distasteful. 



paphlady said:


> Did you bother to find out from Terry (directly and not through the grapevine, we all know how info can change as it passes from one vine to another) his reasoning behind selling plants in bloom before concluding "the whole practice smells funny"?



No, I have not asked Terry directly why he blooms before he sells. It doesn't matter. I prefer to buy plants that are bred by respectable breeders, and at the same time plants that I can raise and bloom myself. I am young enough to see plants through to first bloom. Terry is very respected, but frankly, I don't want previously bloomed plants. I am not in the hobby for awards, or perfect specimen plants, and I am not in it to buy "pot plants" that have pretty blooms and perfect form. I am in it because I love growing plants, and for the thrill of surrounding myself with living things that I enjoy learning about. To me, all the rest is nonsense wrapped in foolishness.


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## heliomum (Mar 5, 2008)

Just another thought, in the book _Orchid Fever_, it says that a Thai monk walked in to buy an orchid. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Thai monks buy orchids wholesale. So either that monk was very wealthy, or Terry Root gives discounts to monks.


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## Sirius (Mar 5, 2008)

Ha ha ha.


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## Leo Schordje (Mar 5, 2008)

Jeezzz - this thread is less than 24 hours old and already it is three pages. You guys are indulging in the "Cult of Personality". Back up a bit and get real. 

Terry Root is using a WHOLESALE business mdoel. This means he does not retail IN ORDER TO AVOID COMPETITION WITH HIS WHOLESALE CUSTOMERS. 

When he first began advertising he stated then that his business is WHOLESALE. He guarranteed his customers that he would not show up at shows, conferences, forums, guild meetings or on the internet as competition. If OZ were to retail, Terry could undercut his wholesale customers if he opened a retail outlet, but he does not. Because he stays wholesale only he has more wholesale customers who don't have to worry about competing directly with him, they just have to worry about competing with each other. 

This is a standard business model. By following this, Terry can have more sales, and see his product sold all over the world, because his wholesale customers don't have to worry about him under cutting them. If he started selling retail beyond the walk in customers that he simply could not keep away, he would loose his largest wholesale accounts. So who is the fool? 

So give the man a break, he is simply doing business, this decision is a business model, not a personality issue. 

Leo


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## Sirius (Mar 5, 2008)

Hey Leo,

Everyone on this board has the fair chance to post their opinion on any subject started on the board. That's kinda why it was started it in the first place. So I appreciate your opinions, but next time can you leave the "Cult of Personality" remarks at home. After all, you chided us for running up a thread by three pages, and then you added another post.


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## heliomum (Mar 5, 2008)

I agree with you.


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## Candace (Mar 5, 2008)

I have no idea if you're aiming your comments at one person or more, Leo. But I don't understand the tone of your posting and "cult of personality" thing, at all. People are entitled to their opinions and 3 pages of discussion in one day, in my mind, signifies people are interested...that's all.


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## gonewild (Mar 5, 2008)

I think I remember Terry saying at the Paph Guild meeting that he grows his plants so he can select "good" plants to sell to collectors. His wholesale business and sales are simply the way for him to get the selected plants. His fun and joy is with selling the selected plants to private collectors and he did say he considers a plant as "select" when it is one he can sell for $2000 or more. And he said he has no problem selling his selects for that price.

I bet that monk had some gold under his robe to trade for something very spiritual.


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## Sirius (Mar 5, 2008)

gonewild said:


> His fun and joy is with selling the selected plants to private collectors and he did say he considers a plant as "select" when it is one he can sell for $2000 or more. And he said he has no problem selling his selects for that price.



It's good to be the king.


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## Rick (Mar 5, 2008)

gonewild said:


> I think I remember Terry saying at the Paph Guild meeting that he grows his plants so he can select "good" plants to sell to collectors. His wholesale business and sales are simply the way for him to get the selected plants. His fun and joy is with selling the selected plants to private collectors and he did say he considers a plant as "select" when it is one he can sell for $2000 or more. And he said he has no problem selling his selects for that price.
> 
> I bet that monk had some gold under his robe to trade for something very spiritual.



Even if he kept the "best" for himself, it seems like the "seconds" are world class keepers. I'm happy with those:clap:


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## Leo Schordje (Mar 5, 2008)

PHRAG said:


> Hey Leo,
> Everyone on this board has the fair chance to post their opinion on any subject started on the board. That's kinda why it was started it in the first place. So I appreciate your opinions, but next time can you leave the "Cult of Personality" remarks at home. After all, you chided us for running up a thread by three pages, and then you added another post.





Candace said:


> I have no idea if you're aiming your comments at one person or more, Leo. But I don't understand the tone of your posting and "cult of personality" thing, at all. People are entitled to their opinions and 3 pages of discussion in one day, in my mind, signifies people are interested...that's all.



That's odd, I didn't think I was being particularly insulting or negative. So I checked Wikipedia just to make sure I wasn't making a cross generational faux pax. (I'm over 50 you know). Here is what I found; 
"A cult of personality or personality cult arises when a country's leader uses mass media to create a heroic public image through unquestioning flattery and praise. Cults of personality are often found in dictatorships but can be found in some democracies as well.
A cult of personality is similar to general hero worship except that it is created specifically for political leaders. However, the term may be applied by analogy to refer to adulation of non-political leaders."

nothing really insulting there. So John and Candace I don't understand your beef. Perhaps you are projecting a negative tone into my note that really is not there. 

Most of the posts prior to mine were speculation about why OZ and Terry Root did business the way he does. Several of the posts went into his personality. (Nice vs abrupt, etc) Not one of the posts prior to mine mentioned the real reason why they are wholesale only as stated by the Orchid Zone in its own advertisments. Orchid Zone guarrantees its customers that the Orchid Zone will not compete with them in the retail market. I thought it would be fair to the OZ if I pointed out that this was the reason they did business that way. I am fairly confident Terry Root and the rest of the OZ staff get tired of people speculating about their motivations and personalities. "Hero Worship"? "Cult of Personality"? Whatever. I guess it's not wrong. Terry Root is definitely a hero in the Paph world, even I think so. 
Leo


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## aquacorps (Mar 5, 2008)

Terry is a very decent person that does not suffer fools. A little known fact about Terry is that he appeared in the early 70's in the Coca Cola TV commercial “I’d like to teach the world to sing (in perfect harmony)". He’s the one in the suit in the back near the end. Rusty

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mOEU87SBTU


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## Sirius (Mar 5, 2008)

Sorry Leo, I misunderstood. It was just that you followed it up with "back up and get real." I thought you were implying something else.


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## Candace (Mar 5, 2008)

Hmm. Well all the capitals "shouting" Leo, and saying we're a cult of personality-which by the way I'm still not getting since the term is coined to describe dictatorships vs. democracy...and telling us to "get real". My comments have been nothing but positive and before your posting I thought everyone was handling themselves nicely. Disagreeing but not resorting to name calling. 

Leo, we own a reselling business, so I for one don't need the mechanics of the business model pointed out to me. I didn't notice anyone else questioning his business practice. Like I said earlier, it is what it is. And truly it's not anyone's business! It's so odd that this topic has become so heated and it makes me wonder what that's really about.


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## paphioland (Mar 5, 2008)

aquacorps said:


> Terry is a very decent person that does not suffer fools. A little known fact about Terry is that he appeared in the early 70's in the Coca Cola TV commercial “I’d like to teach the world to sing (in perfect harmony)". He’s the one in the suit in the back near the end. Rusty
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mOEU87SBTU



shut up. Is that really Terry???? LoL


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## Sirius (Mar 5, 2008)

aquacorps said:


> Terry is a very decent person that does not suffer fools.



The problem with that philosophy is, every man is a fool at some point or another.


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## Heather (Mar 5, 2008)

okay....

First off, it needs, again apparently, to be said that this is an open forum. 
If Terry Root, whom I have the UTMOST respect for, wishes to not have his address posted online, he needs to talk to Google first (you try it!), and me, PERSONALLY, second. 

I don't particularly appreciate PM's saying I should delete messages from people acting on someone else's behalf. We don't do that here, especially when the person in question has a very public profile. 

If someone has an issue with this, they should contact me directly.


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## Gcroz (Mar 5, 2008)

All I have to say, even though I probably shouldn't but thats what a glass of port and cigar will do, is that I wish I was able to afford Terry's plants. I'm a reseller and I've thrown my hat in with some growers I like. For what I do, they're perfect.

After all, in my humble opinion and please excuse the language, who gives a crap what the grower is like if his plants are First Class the world over. 

Besides, if you think he might be a jerk, God help any of you that meet me!


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Mar 5, 2008)

On a more peaceful note....a few years ago I bought a blooming paph at my favorite plant shop in Chinatown...it was an exceptionally large and well shaped vini, with a tag that had nothing more than a number. Since the number had "OZ" in it, I looked up the OZ online (Yes, all that info is posted for the world to see at a mouse click), and emailed them, asking what the cross was. In less than a day, Terry replied personally, with all the info on the cross. All I did was buy a plant (and not at an exorbitant price) from a plant shop...guy didn't know me from a hole in the wall, yet he was willing to take his time to give me the information..that's classy to me. Take care, Eric


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## paphlady (Mar 5, 2008)

PHRAG said:


> The bad thing about throwing quotes at people to argue a point is, they never quite get the point across properly. You see, by saying I hold Terry in contempt, you are saying I despise him. The very definition of contempt according to Merriam Webster, is "the act of despising." If you look up the definition of despise, you find that it means "to regard as negligible, worthless, or distasteful." I suggest you re-read my post and point out to me exactly where I called Terry negligible, worthless or distasteful.



You've completely missed my point and the meaning of the quote. Re-read my post and the quote. Nowhere did I attempt to interpret your statement (e.g. I didn't say this is what you're saying about Terry).


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## Leo Schordje (Mar 5, 2008)

PHRAG said:


> Sorry Leo, I misunderstood. It was just that you followed it up with "back up and get real." I thought you were implying something else.



Thanks, no problem. 

Candace - I apologize if you felt I was singling you out. I was not referring to any single person. I forget that capitals means shouting rather than emphasis. I did not think capitals were rude. My mistake (I plead guilty of over 50). I guess I did sound a bit grouchy. Sorry about that 
Leo


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## Sirius (Mar 5, 2008)

paphlady said:


> You've completely missed my point and the meaning of the quote. Re-read my post and the quote. Nowhere did I attempt to interpret your statement (e.g. I didn't say this is what you're saying about Terry).



I don't see how anyone could misunderstand the meaning of the quote. It's pretty simple. A man is stuck in his own ignorance, if he holds something in contempt without investigating it for himself. The translation is right there, and doesn't leave much room for interpretation. 

Don't worry, you haven't hurt my feelings.


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## malibucarl (Mar 5, 2008)

*OZ*



aquacorps said:


> Terry is a very decent person that does not suffer fools. A little known fact about Terry is that he appeared in the early 70's in the Coca Cola TV commercial “I’d like to teach the world to sing (in perfect harmony)". He’s the one in the suit in the back near the end. Rusty
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mOEU87SBTU



WOW. 
That Coke commercial, along with TWA's "Up Up and Away" commercial, bring back memories of a time I didn't have to TIVO darn near everything to skip annoying ads.
Thanx for the link,
Carl Straub
Ret TWA Pilot


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## Heather (Mar 5, 2008)

Okay, validated. I did just have email from Terry so, that message that was deleted was done so validly, both with regards to the original posted and with regards to administration here. 


Please, I will just say, if people have an issue with a post, please just email me directly? Please!


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## Sirius (Mar 6, 2008)

For future reference, if someone wants the address to the Orchid Zone, point them to Google and let them find it. We are not going to post it on this forum, because apparently it is ok for Google to display a listed phone number and address, but not us. Are we all cool with that? Good.


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## paphioland (Mar 6, 2008)

PHRAG said:


> For future reference, if someone wants the address to the Orchid Zone, point them to Google and let them find it. We are not going to post it on this forum, because apparently it is ok for Google to display a listed phone number and address, but not us. Are we all cool with that? Good.



You are such a punk. Where is it a *listed address*? Just because other people put up private info doesn't make it right.


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## Sirius (Mar 6, 2008)

Ken,

Please review the Forum Rules before you post again.

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18


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## Sirius (Mar 6, 2008)

The information I found was from an archive of press releases, and telling you where it is would point more people to it. That is what we are trying to avoid here. It wouldn't really matter though, the information is also listed by the California Dept. of Agriculture, and is also readily available on other orchid forums. I am sorry if the information is so much a secret, as it seems that it is readily available to anyone with a web browser. I can point you to these other sources, and you can contact them Ken, as the duly authorized point of contact for Terry, so these other listings may be removed. You are a duly authorized spokesperson for the Orchid Zone right?


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## Roth (Mar 6, 2008)

Leo Schordje said:


> Orchid Zone guarrantees its customers that the Orchid Zone will not compete with them in the retail market. I thought it would be fair to the OZ if I pointed out that this was the reason they did business that way. I am fairly confident Terry Root and the rest of the OZ staff get tired of people speculating about their motivations and personalities. "Hero Worship"? "Cult of Personality"? Whatever. I guess it's not wrong. Terry Root is definitely a hero in the Paph world, even I think so.
> Leo



For sure. But I am absolutely sure on the other side that OZ decided to keep a "segment" of the orchid market, and do it well, rather than making a lot of things from propagation to end-consumer sales, mostly because of time.

I have a tissue culture lab, and actually now I have a "distributor" in Europe ( with a database on a website that he can access). If hobbyists want to get 30 seedlings of that cross, and 100 of that other, from their own seeds, it is perfectly fine. But I "splitted". The "distributor" actually gets the hassle of replying to many emails, getting a lot of enquiries for fewer orders, care of each individual customer, the unpaid bills ( and there are many in the orchid world). On my side, I just make the lab ( well, at least I hope), I get packets of seeds, make the flasks, and return them to him 4-6 times a year. 

I tried to do the whole process, but I got too many enquiries as to the stage of that seed caps, how many seedlings can be done, etc... and I was spending before I decided to have a distributor, at least 6H/day in emails reply.

Terry is not a brutal stupid guy, he is very well educated, so he is deemed to reply to any enquiries, for politeness. From that, he can loose a hell of a lot of time to reply to too many people, and the flower he wanted to be pollinated has faded, he was too tired and inverted pollen, or whatever. Believe me from experience, retail is a full time job.

And no, I think they definitely would not need distributors to make money if they wanted. If the Orchid Zone was going retail, most people would buy from them directly, so retailers or not, their income would be the same ( and retail entitles from some people at least x5 the wholesale price !). But they choose not to have an overload of work.

Apart from the coca cola (that's a really good video actually!), Terry is very keen on astronomy as well, and many others fields (I do not know if he still have the target shooting practice somewhere ?).


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## rdlsreno (Mar 6, 2008)

paphioland said:


> shut up. Is that really Terry???? LoL



That is so cool!!! Can't believe that is Terry!


Ramon


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## goldenrose (Mar 6, 2008)

Eric Muehlbauer said:


> On a more peaceful note....a few years ago I bought a blooming paph at my favorite plant shop in Chinatown...it was an exceptionally large and well shaped vini, with a tag that had nothing more than a number. Since the number had "OZ" in it, I looked up the OZ online (Yes, all that info is posted for the world to see at a mouse click), and emailed them, asking what the cross was. In less than a day, Terry replied personally, with all the info on the cross. All I did was buy a plant (and not at an exorbitant price) from a plant shop...guy didn't know me from a hole in the wall, yet he was willing to take his time to give me the information..that's classy to me. Take care, Eric


I had the same experience!


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## Heather (Mar 6, 2008)

On a lighter note...what happened to strong advertising? 

That Coca Cola ad, and the Keep America Beautiful campaign were pretty amazing...

Before anyone says anything, I realize that what I am going to post now is pretty stereotypical, I majored in Native American Studies, but in 1974, these were pretty good marketing strategies. 
Obviously, many of us remember both of these...

http://www.aef.com/misc_video/adcouncil/indian_in_canoe_60.mpg


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## NYEric (Mar 6, 2008)

NYEric said:


> I take exception to the suggestion that anyone here stated otherwise.
> 
> Well gee, most of us aren't Harold or Norito.:wink: Therefore I guess we have to spend at least $1K!


Wow, obviously this thread has generated a lot of knee-jerk reactions. I believe OZ has created a "cult" through both it's quality of plants and exclusivity. Whether it is intentional or not media manipulation has helped create the OZ monster. Even on eBay, OZ plants command a price because of their quality and the OZ name. [PS they are affordable.] I enjoy the plants, I would love to meet the man, but I realize my location and personal finances don't allow me to buy wholesale probably will not have the chance. I don't think anyone here has told an untruth about Terry's temperment and we all can't get allong all the time so we'll all just have to try to deal. Terry, I'm sure, is computer literate and if he objects can respond here on our open forum. Just my 3 cents.


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## Heather (Mar 6, 2008)

NYEric said:


> Terry, I'm sure, is computer literate and if he objects can respond here on our open forum. Just my 3 cents.




Agreed, let him speak for himself if he has something to say.


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## Hien (Mar 6, 2008)

Heather said:


> On a lighter note...what happened to strong advertising?
> 
> That Coca Cola ad, and the Keep America Beautiful campaign were pretty amazing...
> 
> ...



What happen to the ads like these?
Because our government did not care (in fact we do not care, the government is a mirror of ourselves).
While some kids volonteer at the hospitals & bagging food for the homeless, picking garbages on the road side etc , I also witness adults driving humvees, flashy cars tossing out coffe cups, beer cans right on the middle of the streets .


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## kellyincville (Mar 6, 2008)

Drama. I agree with the cult of personality comment. Simply through deciding that less exposure to the general orchid community is better for him, every time I've seen his name mentioned it generates more discussion that anyone else. Rock on Terry! 

I hope that if I open a retail establishment one day, I'll be able to have Terry as a wholesaler.


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## charlie c (Mar 6, 2008)

aquacorps said:


> Terry is a very decent person that does not suffer fools. A little known fact about Terry is that he appeared in the early 70's in the Coca Cola TV commercial “I’d like to teach the world to sing (in perfect harmony)". He’s the one in the suit in the back near the end. Rusty
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mOEU87SBTU



I guess he really is a choir boy. 

charlie c


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## Heather (Mar 6, 2008)

Paph people are crazy ass nuts....that's all the more I'll say on the subject.


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## swamprad (Mar 6, 2008)

I'm glad we all have personalities and occasionally have differences of opinion. Makes life interesting, you know!

As for the commercials, I've watched the Coke commercial over and over, at least a dozen times. I think I'm falling in love with one of those girls...


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## Candace (Mar 6, 2008)

> Rock on Terry!



Now where have I heard that before...


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## paphlady (Mar 6, 2008)

swamprad said:


> I'm glad we all have personalities and occasionally have differences of opinion. Makes life interesting, you know!



Occasionally? I think very often. That's why Baskin-Robbins has 31 flavors.


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## malibucarl (Mar 6, 2008)

swamprad said:


> I'm glad we all have personalities and occasionally have differences of opinion. Makes life interesting, you know!
> 
> As for the commercials, I've watched the Coke commercial over and over, at least a dozen times. I think I'm falling in love with one of those girls...



Do you know her current age ??


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## berrywoodson (Mar 11, 2008)

As far as i am concerned, Terry Root and Frank Smith are the top two breeders of Paphs. in the USA.


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## Roth (Mar 11, 2008)

malibucarl said:


> Do you know her current age ??



Maybe he is gerontophilic :rollhappy::rollhappy: or he can still contact to know if she has a daughter !



berrywoodson said:


> As far as i am concerned, Terry Root and Frank Smith are the top two breeders of Paphs. in the USA.



Definitely! There are some more, but for the consistency of results, and the wide range of genuses, they are the only two. Terry bred some stunning draculas ( I still have several d.vampira from him that are really massive), miltoniopsis, phalaenopsis ( the equestris special strain), and a lot more, and Frank Smith a lot of catts, vandas etc...


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## e-spice (Mar 17, 2008)

Sanderianum said:


> He had some personnal and professionnal problems, including a business divorce together with the fake sanderianum story, and people selling other plants under the Orchid Zone name, along with some more.



Hey Sanderianum - Would you tell the story of the fake sanderianums for those of us not familiar?

Thanks,
e-spice


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