# Paphiopedilum trantuanii



## Damas (Apr 4, 2009)

Hello All,
I bought this paphiopedilum from a european orchid prod.
I tried to grab information or photos of the flower (the one I bought is not in flower) but found many different opinions regarding this trantuanii that I am even more confused now...
Some people think it's a primary hybrid, some other a true species. Does anyone here have information and pics of the plant/flower ? This would be so great !


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## emydura (Apr 4, 2009)

Never heard of it.

There is a photo and discussion here.

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9064

David


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## Damas (Apr 4, 2009)

Thank you Emydura, so I believe trantuanii is this :







That's cool, I like it. Here is a photo of my plant. It has already four growth, each one of decent size, so hopefully I'll be able to post pics of flowers in a close future :


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## emydura (Apr 4, 2009)

Your plant sure looks healthy. Shouldn't take long to flower.

As Rick said in the previous link, the flowers just look like gratrixianum x henryanum. The pouch, petals and big spots are all henryanum. I'm a little scepticle that this is a valid species. Although Olaf thinks it is and he knows a lot more than me. 

Where is it meant to be found?

David


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## Damas (Apr 4, 2009)

I bought mine at Nardotto e Capello, an italian prod near french border. It was the first time I heard of this trantuanii paph, so I ordered it 
Nardotto e Capello are well known over here to have nice and healthy orchids, at a very good price.


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## goldenrose (Apr 4, 2009)

I can't say that I've heard of it either. Will look forward to seeing pics when it blooms. Nice compact, healthy plant!


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## NYEric (Apr 4, 2009)

Good luck, keep us posted.


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## emydura (Apr 4, 2009)

Actually, you would expect red markings on the leaves of a hybrid of gratrixianum x henryanum. Yours has no markings at all. So it couldn't be a hybrid of these two species.

Does anyone know where trantuanii is suppose to be found naturally?

David


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## biothanasis (Apr 4, 2009)

I hope you very nice blooms soon, so that we all know what it is exaclty or approximatelly...!!!!


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## Rick (Apr 4, 2009)

Why could it not be a variant of henryanum? Knowing the range would be pretty important.


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## SlipperKing (Apr 5, 2009)

Good question Rick. It would take a lot to convince me that it's a hybrid between gratrix and henry.


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## Hakone (Apr 5, 2009)

Damas said:


>




Hello Damas,

look like paph. coccineum


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## emydura (Apr 5, 2009)

Rick said:


> Why could it not be a variant of henryanum? Knowing the range would be pretty important.



If I interpret this thread correctly it comes from Vietnam which is where henryanum can be found. So you are probably right Rick. Strange dorsal for a henryanum though and there doesn't appear to be any red mottling at the bottom of the leaves either.

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7512&page=2

David


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## Damas (Apr 5, 2009)

Hakone said:


> Hello Damas, look like paph. coccineum



Hi Hakone, I also have a coccineum, I am sure it's a coccineum as I have it for a year now and it already bloomed. In order to compare I took two shots. Cocci is on the left, trantuanii on the right. Trantuanii is darker in color and leaves looks like if they were cover with varnish. They are also softer that coccineum leaves, which are quite rigide and more matte, and of a lighter green :


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## Rick (Apr 5, 2009)

emydura said:


> If I interpret this thread correctly it comes from Vietnam which is where henryanum can be found. So you are probably right Rick. Strange dorsal for a henryanum though and there doesn't appear to be any red mottling at the bottom of the leaves either.
> 
> http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7512&page=2
> 
> David



Ny henryanums don't have any red mottling at the bottom of the leaves either, and the dorsal is only weird (compared to a standard henryanum) by having a white border.

Anyway things get lumped and split for smaller differences than these, so who knows.:sob:


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## Hien (Apr 5, 2009)

You are right, they are different
I see clearly in the photos that one has shiny leaves & the other one is with matted leaf texture.
I guess you have to wait for the flower. I would love to see the flower too
This is the first time I heard of this paph.
Obviously growers in US like I am can be quite ignorant since we do not have the plants that Europeans & Asians have access to.




Damas said:


> Hi Hakone, I also have a coccineum, I am sure it's a coccineum as I have it for a year now and it already bloomed. In order to compare I took two shots. Cocci is on the left, trantuanii on the right. Trantuanii is darker in color and leaves looks like if they were cover with varnish. They are also softer that coccineum leaves, which are quite rigide and more matte, and of a lighter green :


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## Rick (Apr 5, 2009)

Hien said:


> You are right, they are different
> I see clearly in the photos that one has shiny leaves & the other one is with matted leaf texture.



I've see that much variation amongst different clones of henryanum and barbigerum. For that matter I've seen that much difference in the same plants just grown under different conditions of temp and humidity.


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## Kavanaru (Apr 6, 2009)

Damas, where did you get your coccineum from? I have it from N&C and both plants look like your trantuanii: darker in color and leaves like covered with varnish. Maybe something they use at N&C to spray their plants with? insecticide or so? my Paph.tranlienianum from them (arrived in the same order) also has the same shiny look....


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## Damas (Apr 7, 2009)

Coccineum comes from Alfa orchids (Albert Falcinelli) in the south of France. I do agree with tranlien look. Among all my paphs, tranlienianum foliage is the closest I could find to trantuanii one, same colour and texture.

Here is a pic my last coccineum bloom :


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## Kavanaru (Apr 7, 2009)

wow, Damas, that's a cutie... looking forward to seeing my both coccineum blooming...


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## baodai (Apr 7, 2009)

Damas,
If your plant is from France, it could be from Mr. (Xavier Garreau de Loubresse) who is a member of this forum. I hope he will tell us more about this plant
As far as I know, paph trantuanhii is from Sơn La Province, It would be a supprise if there is henryanum invole with this plant, Henryanum can be found at Cao Bằng, Hà Giang, Hòa Bình, so there is no where near this area !!! Also, Paph. gratrixianum can be found at Hoàng Liên Sơn, Vĩnh Phúc, Thái Nguyên, and barbi can be found at Sơn La, Lào Cai ... personally, i beleive this is a var aspersum plant.
Also, Mr. Bùi xuân Đáng (from Cali) had recently visited Vietnam, I hope he has more info on this plant
I hope this help a bit
BD


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## Damas (Apr 11, 2009)

Baodai, this helps for sure ! I will also ask infos to the prod I bought the plant from and report here if I get an answer. Thank you !


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## Damas (Apr 14, 2009)

I had the feedback from prod (Nardotto e Capello) :

"La plante arrive du Vietnam et il doit etre une variete du Paphiopedilum
Tranliemianum"

Translation : "Plant arrived from Vietnam. We believe it's a variety of Paphiopedilum tranlienianum"

I guess we now just have to wait for the plant to bloom... :rollhappy:


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## SlipperKing (Apr 14, 2009)

Damas said:


> I had the feedback from prod (Nardotto e Capello) :
> 
> "La plante arrive du Vietnam et il doit etre une variete du Paphiopedilum
> Tranliemianum"
> ...


Well, it appears your supplier made that as "clear as mud"!
I think the best thing to do is to divide the plant and send me half. When the two bloom will see if different continents has anything to do with it's identity!


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## Ernie (Apr 14, 2009)

Damas,

You are growing the crap out of that coccineum! Keep it up! 

-Ernie


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## Kavanaru (Apr 14, 2009)

Damas said:


> I had the feedback from prod (Nardotto e Capello) :
> 
> "La plante arrive du Vietnam et il doit etre une variete du Paphiopedilum
> Tranliemianum"
> ...



hhhmmm.... looking forward to seeing that plant in bloom.. especially, because I ordered it from N&C too and should be here within the next 2 or 3 days


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## Damas (Apr 14, 2009)

Cool Kavanaru, we will compare with the plant you get :clap:
To Slipperking 
To Ernie, yeah ! I sure will :evil:


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## Kavanaru (Apr 18, 2009)

well, my plant arrived and looks a bit different than my Papph. cocineum too. let's see....


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## Kavanaru (Apr 20, 2009)

ok, here are my two plants for comparison... Paphiopedilum coccineum and Paphiopedilum trantuanii. Bot plants coming from the same nursery as Damas' plants... 









sorry, could not decide which picture was better for the comparison... so, I posted both 

P.S.- click on the picture, and you will be linked to my Flickr page. Once there click on "All sizes" (on top of the picture), for a better view...


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## Damas (Apr 21, 2009)

Yes, both "trantuanii" look similar. Let's wait for them to bloom :crazy:


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## pierre63 (Sep 27, 2009)

good news

my P. trantuanii is in bud!!


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## NYEric (Sep 27, 2009)

keep us posted.


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## pierre63 (Sep 27, 2009)




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## Ernie (Sep 27, 2009)

Does Mom Nature make Tyke??? (barbigerum x henryanum)

-Ernie


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## Roth (Sep 27, 2009)

Ernie said:


> Does Mom Nature make Tyke??? (barbigerum x henryanum)
> 
> -Ernie



Trantuanii is not barbigerum x henryanum, the flowers are extremely different... On the other side, I have seen several coccineum x henryanum, jungle collected, in Son La last year, blooming around october...


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## Ernie (Sep 27, 2009)

Fair enough. Thanks. 

-Ernie


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## Kavanaru (Sep 27, 2009)

pierre63 said:


> good news
> 
> my P. trantuanii is in bud!!



really cool... looking forward to seeing it open


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## Kavanaru (Sep 27, 2009)

Sanderianum said:


> Trantuanii is not barbigerum x henryanum, the flowers are extremely different...



Have you ever seen it? I have not been able to find any pictures, which I could call reliable... Even the picture posted at the beginning of this thread are sometimes posted as barbigerum var. XXXXX...


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## SlipperKing (Sep 27, 2009)

Hey, that's really cool! I hope it blooms true.


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## pierre63 (Sep 28, 2009)

i hope quickly...


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## Kavanaru (Oct 26, 2009)

any updates on the blooming Paph trantuanii?


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## pierre63 (Oct 26, 2009)

it advances slowly :wink:


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## callosum (Oct 26, 2009)

*dorsal dotted*

:rollhappy:noted on the dotted dorsal


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## Kavanaru (Oct 26, 2009)

lovely.... looking forward to seeing those spots


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## pierre63 (Nov 1, 2009)

:clap::drool:


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## Kavanaru (Nov 1, 2009)

wow... Tic Tac Tic Tac Tic Tac...


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## SlipperKing (Nov 1, 2009)

looks like a lot of spots on that dorsal! petals too!


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## Roth (Nov 1, 2009)

Looks like Mr. Tran Tuan Anh after having sold out and wiped the colony of trantuanii started to sell henryanums under that name...


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## SlipperKing (Nov 1, 2009)

Foul! Not fair!


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## Roth (Nov 1, 2009)

SlipperKing said:


> Foul! Not fair!



I bloomed about 100 last year like that, found out he ordered at that very same time henryanum from Ha Giang, not Son La, so of course they bloomed out as henryanums. He sold coccineum under that name too.

In the early days of trantuanii, the colony has been collected out in a matter of days, I still have some plants from that collection here. Most of it was offered at prices too high to be sold, in the 30-50usd/growth so they just slowly died in Hanoi at the seller's place. 

All the sellers in Hanoi are totally unable to keep a paph alive more than 2 months...


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## fibre (Nov 1, 2009)

Sanderianum said:


> ... so they just slowly died in Hanoi at the seller's place.
> 
> All the sellers in Hanoi are totally unable to keep a paph alive more than 2 months...



This is an absolute disgrace!


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## Kavanaru (Nov 1, 2009)

Sanderianum said:


> ... I still have some plants from that collection here...



Sanderianum, do you by chance have a picture of this species? I have not found yet any picture which I could trust to be this species... it would be interesting to have a reference from a trustful source (I have a plant from teh same source as Pierre63)


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## pierre63 (Nov 4, 2009)

it's open 
mini henryanum???


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## goldenrose (Nov 4, 2009)

It's cute - looks like a henry to me! :clap::clap:


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## Kavanaru (Nov 4, 2009)

well... pretty nice henryanum  nice color...


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## pierre63 (Nov 4, 2009)

nice small henryanum but not trantuanii


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## luvsorchids (Nov 4, 2009)

> nice small henryanum but not trantuanii



True and disappointing, but it is very cute :smitten:.




Sanderianum said:


> Looks like Mr. Tran Tuan Anh after having sold out and wiped the colony of trantuanii started to sell henryanums under that name...



Great catch. I'm impressed :clap:.

Susan


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## SlipperFan (Nov 4, 2009)

It's a cute henryanum. Is this the first one you have or do you have another?


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## pierre63 (Nov 5, 2009)

it's my first trantuanii. i have one henryanum too


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## Kavanaru (Nov 5, 2009)

Pierre. I am just curious to see how my "Paph. trantuanii" will bloom.. coming from the same nursery as yours... I think I can expect a nicely colored henryanum too... also looking forward to see Damas' plantblooming (also from the same nursery)


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## pierre63 (Nov 5, 2009)

i hope we can see your bloom :wink:


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## SlipperKing (Nov 5, 2009)

Defenitely no trantuanii but a nice henryanum as Sanderianum said.


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## quietaustralian (May 25, 2010)

*P trantuanii*

This thread was started some time ago but the question still remains unanswered. Has Paph trantuanii been recognised as a species? I have some plants that were sold as trantuanii but have yet to flower them. I have only seen one picture of the plants in bloom and that is the one shown in a previous post. Even in Vietnam there is a little controversy about this plant.


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## quietaustralian (Sep 15, 2010)

*Paph. trantuanii*



Sanderianum said:


> I bloomed about 100 last year like that, found out he ordered at that very same time henryanum from Ha Giang, not Son La, so of course they bloomed out as henryanums. He sold coccineum under that name too.
> 
> In the early days of trantuanii, the colony has been collected out in a matter of days, I still have some plants from that collection here. Most of it was offered at prices too high to be sold, in the 30-50usd/growth so they just slowly died in Hanoi at the seller's place.
> 
> All the sellers in Hanoi are totally unable to keep a paph alive more than 2 months...



Sanderianum. Have you flowered your trantuanii plants? Some pics would be great if anyone has any. The only pic I have seen is the one that pops up elsewhere on the net and originated with Tuan Anh himself. Only 1 picture on the net, makes me wonder.

Regards, Mick


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## callosum (Sep 29, 2010)

interested paph


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## quietaustralian (Jan 7, 2011)

I thought I'd give this thread a bump. 

Has anyone seen anymore pics of this plant? Has anyone bloomed it?

I have seen some plants for sale but they look like henryanums to me.


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## quietaustralian (Jun 21, 2011)

bump!


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## baodai (Jun 21, 2011)

I purchased 2kg from Mr. Trần Tuấn himself, it turned out henryanum. Waste time and space
regards,
BD


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## Braem (Jun 21, 2011)

Damas said:


> Thank you Emydura, so I believe trantuanii is this :
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The top plant may well photographed in the wild ... it is very close to Paph. henryanum Braem from what I can see, but the staminodal shield is not quite visible.

Whatever plant that is at the bottom, it seems like a plant from cultivation .... that would indicate that it is a hybrid .... but all this is ... guesswork. So I suggest you ask whoever sold the plant


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## quietaustralian (Jul 3, 2011)

I finally found that this plants wasn't described as a new species, it was described as a natural hybrid. 

Does anyone have a link to the original description or a pdf of it?

Paphiopedilum × trantuanhii Gogniat & Loubr., Swiss Orchid Soc. Bull. 1: 2 (2008).

Regards, Mick


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## Braem (Jul 3, 2011)

*Recognition*

No, this plant is not recognized as a separate species by anyone who is serious about Paphiopedilum ...


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## Braem (Jul 3, 2011)

quietaustralian said:


> This thread was started some time ago but the question still remains unanswered. Has Paph trantuanii been recognised as a species? I have some plants that were sold as trantuanii but have yet to flower them. I have only seen one picture of the plants in bloom and that is the one shown in a previous post. Even in Vietnam there is a little controversy about this plant.


The problem is that the Vietnamese (just as the Chinese. the Brazilians and some others) describe plants from their country notwithstanding the fact that they have been described before. That procedure is nothing new and can be traced back to the 18th and 19 century when the English described plants that were described by the French and vice versa. I refrain to state whether this is pure ignorance or simple stupidity ... but it causes chaos ... On the other hand, it brings money to those who sell the plant as a separate species.


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## quietaustralian (Jul 3, 2011)

It appears Averyanov named this as Paphiopedilum × aspersum Aver., Komarovia 2: 17 (2002), he then changed to Paphiopedilum barbigerum var. aspersum (Aver.) Aver., Turczaninowia 11(1): 72 (2008) and then back to × aspersum.

I'd be keen to get a link too or pdf of Paphiopedilum × aspersum Aver., Komarovia 2: 17 (2002), as well as the description of x trantuananhii

Regards, Mick


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## quietaustralian (Jul 3, 2011)

Braem said:


> The problem is that the Vietnamese (just as the Chinese. the Brazilians and some others) describe plants from their country notwithstanding the fact that they have been described before. That procedure is nothing new and can be traced back to the 18th and 19 century when the English described plants that were described by the French and vice versa. I refrain to state whether this is pure ignorance or simple stupidity ... but it causes chaos ... On the other hand, it brings money to those who sell the plant as a separate species.



I agree

Regards, Mick


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## Braem (Jul 3, 2011)

quietaustralian said:


> bump!


Well Eric Hansen had to give his book some dramatic "highlights". Many people mistake "opinionated" for "knowledgeable" ... and I honesty don't understand the rest of the quote. 

I admit that I have not seen the publication from the Swiss Orchid Soc. Bull. but if the plant corresponds to that photo posted earlier, I would have a problem considering it anything else as P. henryanum.

I have just called Switzerland to get a copy of the pub. ... I will comment as soon as I have it.


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## Braem (Jul 3, 2011)

quietaustralian said:


> I finally found that this plants wasn't described as a new species, it was described as a natural hybrid.
> 
> Does anyone have a link to the original description or a pdf of it?
> 
> ...


A Swiss Orchid Society Bulletin does not exist.


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## valenzino (Jul 3, 2011)

*xAspersum*

To compare to other photots around,this is a Paph.xAspersum(in my opinion),seen in bloom in a batch of plants mixed(coccineum,henrianum,tranliemianum,helenae) in malaisya nearly 10 yers ago...what do you think?





Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## Braem (Jul 3, 2011)

*OK Here we go with some true Taxonomy*

1) The "publication" of "Paphiopedilum trantuanhii" appeared as ab Internet publication under "Selected Orchid Science" ... and is thus void and nil. The rules clearly rule out a publication on the internet (see below).

2) As I have stated in an earlier posting: The Swiss Orchid Society Bulletin does not exist. 

Thus the name P. truantuanhi is invalid and void ... 

I don't know what the authors were thinking when they published this, but at least Xavier should know that the ICBN states that electronic publications are invalid. (Article 29 of the Code). And even if there is a true publication on paper somewhere, it is also invalid as it bases on the original that was published on the web. Anything published based on an invalid name is invalid.

Now to the contents: The authors write (first page, 4th paragraph): "In September 206, one of us (Xavier ...) has been shown pictures and sample specimens of a new species ... This species has been compared with _Paphiopedilum coccineum_ Perner & Herrmann, and _Paphiopedilum henryanum _G.J. Braem to which it is closely related."

Now looking at the picture in the web "publication" one can indeed argue that this plant could be a hybrid between _coccineum_ and _henryanum_ or better between _barbigerum_ and _henryanum_. ... But as the plants come from a nursery, one can also "think" that this may be a man-made hybrid. 

In any case, the flower of the web publication do NOT correspond to the flowers shown on the habitat picture posted in this thread.... 

Maybe now some people will start to understand why I always claim that "taxonomy should be left to taxonomists".


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## quietaustralian (Jul 3, 2011)

Braem said:


> A Swiss Orchid Society Bulletin does not exist.



Paphiopedilum × trantuanhii Gogniat & Loubr., Swiss Orchid Soc. Bull. 1: 2 (2008).
Was referenced in World checklist of selected plant names.
http://apps.kew.org/wcsp/namedetail.do?name_id=464426
I have been searching for the original x trantuananhii and x aspersum descriptions via the net without luck. I'll have a look tomorrow at uni.

Regards, Mick


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## Braem (Jul 3, 2011)

I checked with Rudolf Jenny. He has ALL orchid publications, and he confirmed that a Swiss Orchid Society Bulletin does not exist.

That it is listed by Kew does not mean anything


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## quietaustralian (Jul 3, 2011)

valenzino said:


> To compare to other photots around,this is a Paph.xAspersum(in my opinion),seen in bloom in a batch of plants mixed(coccineum,henrianum,tranliemianum,helenae) in malaisya nearly 10 yers ago...what do you think?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I dont think it looks much like the "in situ" pic but I've seen x aspersum described with two different parentages. The "in situ" pic looks almost identical to some clones of Paph Mary Zdilla.

Regards, Mick


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## Kavanaru (Jul 3, 2011)

Braem said:


> A Swiss Orchid Society Bulletin does not exist.


indeed, never heard of it.. te bulletin of the SOG is called "Orchidee"


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## quietaustralian (Jul 4, 2011)

Braem said:


> 1) The "publication" of "Paphiopedilum trantuanhii" appeared as ab Internet publication under "Selected Orchid Science" ... and is thus void and nil. The rules clearly rule out a publication on the internet (see below).
> 
> 2) As I have stated in an earlier posting: The Swiss Orchid Society Bulletin does not exist.
> 
> ...



Where did you find the web based description? I did a web search and found a Vietnamese website that gave an extract of the description (without pics or figures) but didn't give details of where it was originally published. 

I agree that taxonomy should be left to taxonomists. I'm interested in the mystery that is Paph trantuanii/trantuananhii/x trantuananhii? and Paph. helenae forma delicatum.


Regards, Mick


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## Braem (Jul 5, 2011)

quietaustralian said:


> Where did you find the web based description? I did a web search and found a Vietnamese website that gave an extract of the description (without pics or figures) but didn't give details of where it was originally published.
> 
> I agree that taxonomy should be left to taxonomists. I'm interested in the mystery that is Paph trantuanii/trantuananhii/x trantuananhii? and Paph. helenae forma delicatum.
> 
> ...


I got the copy from my friend Rudolf Jenny out of Switzerland ... I have googled for it but did not find it. Really, if Xavier (and he is on this forum and will certainly be reading this) wants to publish, he should do it properly.


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## Roth (Jul 5, 2011)

Just a short note as I am overloaded with work:

the SOS bulletin existed as a paper edition, and was the one sent to Kew to validate trantuanii ( like henryanum in its time. SOS bulletin was planned to be published on the long term, but some participants disagreed, dropped, wanted to take the control.. normal story. The paper edition was and is the original one.

As for the history of that plant, Tran Tuan Anh showed to me some HUNDREDS wild collected plants, I know since from which area. They were all identical, with spots on the dorsal, and maybe resulting from a hybrid swamp of henryanum and coccineum originally, but all fresh from the wild. In fact he ordered a batch from the collector of coccineum (some dozen kilograms of plants) in low spike/bloom for a customer, and ended up with that new species/variety/natural hybrid colony.

He sold those a premium price after having divided every clump in single growth, so that nearly no plant from the original collection survive. 

I have to say too that the plants I have have flower that are way, way bigger than henryanum or coccineum when they bloom, usually in the 12 to 14cm as a minumum. (that's when they bloom, apparently a growth matures slower than henryanum.).


During a trip to the minorities with two foreigners 2 years ago, we took more picture of a few left plants ( less than 5 so far). Tran Tuan Anh was not on that trip at all.

Afterwards, he tried to sell coccineum, henryanum and other things under that name. But the original plants of trantuanii are nearly all gone.

helenae delicatulum, same story, there has been a colony, now wiped out, close to Yen Bai, very far from the original helenae colony. Few plants are still alive today. But apparently there is one collector who still can get it, though it remains to be seen in bloom.


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## Braem (Jul 5, 2011)

Roth said:


> Just a short note as I am overloaded with work:
> 
> the SOS bulletin existed as a paper edition, and was the one sent to Kew to validate trantuanii ( like henryanum in its time. SOS bulletin was planned to be published on the long term, but some participants disagreed, dropped, wanted to take the control.. normal story. The paper edition was and is the original one.
> 
> ...


No,No ... Xavier, you can't get away with that. You can't make one issue and the say "oh sorry" we have discontinued. Schlechteriana existed 7 years. And sending a publication to Kew alone is not a publication.

If you want that plant recognized as a species ... you must publish it in accordance with the ICBN.

What happened to the plant and pictures or whatever, is of no concern in respect to taxonomy. 

And the story about "helenae delicatum" is just as confuse ... do the work properly, if you want it recognized.


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## quietaustralian (Jul 7, 2011)

The legality of the publishing of this plant is not for me to say but I’m still curious about a few details.

I have seen two internet references to the publication of this plant; one refers to P. trantuanii and the other to P. x trantuanhii, the second appears to be a typo. I’d expect the name to be x trantuanii or x trantuananhii. What name was used when it was published?

A picture of a plant appears in this thread, Trần Tuấn Anh himself says this is Paph trantuanii. I’m predicting that someone will say that it doesn’t matter what Tuấn Anh says but I’m interested to know if Tuấn Anh’s picture resembles the plant in the publication.

Regards, Mick


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## Braem (Jul 7, 2011)

quietaustralian said:


> The legality of the publishing of this plant is not for me to say but I’m still curious about a few details.
> 
> I have seen two internet references to the publication of this plant; one refers to P. trantuanii and the other to P. x trantuanhii, the second appears to be a typo. I’d expect the name to be x trantuanii or x trantuananhii. What name was used when it was published?
> 
> ...


Mick,

no that is not a typo ... it means that the authors decided to change their opinion and now consider the plant a natural hybrid. It is a mistake in that the "x" should be put directly before the name, that is "xtrantuanii" and not "x trantuanii" ... that would be a valid "move" if the taxon were published effectively, which it is not.


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## quietaustralian (Jul 7, 2011)

Braem said:


> Mick,
> 
> no that is not a typo ... it means that the authors decided to change their opinion and now consider the plant a natural hybrid. It is a mistake in that the "x" should be put directly before the name, that is "xtrantuanii" and not "x trantuanii" ... that would be a valid "move" if the taxon were published effectively, which it is not.




Thanks for that.

I thought the typo was in the actual name, it just doesn't read right.
The plant was named after Trần Tuấn Anh so I'd assume it would be named xtrantuanii or xtrantuananhii but on Kew its xtrantuanhii . Maybe Kew made a typo?
It was published as a natural hybrid? 

Regards, Mick


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## Braem (Jul 7, 2011)

quietaustralian said:


> Thanks for that.
> 
> I thought the typo was in the actual name, it just doesn't read right.
> The plant was named after Trần Tuấn Anh so I'd assume it would be named xtrantuanii or xtrantuananhii but on Kew its xtrantuanhii . Maybe Kew made a typo?
> ...


It wasn't publisdhed as anything according to the rules, so Julian at Kew goofed (not the first time), I have a contact in England who can ask ...


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## Paphluvr (Feb 16, 2012)

*Paphiopedilum trantuanii species or hybrid?*

If you'll notice the tag in one of the photos and assume that they followed normal naming convention, then it appears to be a hybrid as the "T" in trantuanii is capitalized.

Just an observation!


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## slippertalker (Feb 16, 2012)

Paphluvr said:


> If you'll notice the tag in one of the photos and assume that they followed normal naming convention, then it appears to be a hybrid as the "T" in trantuanii is capitalized.
> 
> Just an observation!



You might note that all of the letters were in caps, not just the first one....
I wouldn't place any importance on that....


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Feb 16, 2012)

This may be meaningless, but it seems that when scientific names are published in British publications, the species name is capitalized if it is named after someone....only in British journals, nowhere else.


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## likespaphs (Feb 17, 2012)

Eric Muehlbauer said:


> This may be meaningless, but it seems that when scientific names are published in British publications, the species name is capitalized if it is named after someone....only in British journals, nowhere else.



hmmm
this seems to go against all the typical naming rules


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## Kavanaru (Feb 17, 2012)

Eric Muehlbauer said:


> This may be meaningless, but it seems that when scientific names are published in British publications, the species name is capitalized if it is named after someone....only in British journals, nowhere else.



you sure about that? I have seen/noticed that at all... will no do some checks....


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## cxcanh (Oct 31, 2016)

Sorry everyone to take this thread back because I search in formation for this species. It blooming in my hand now and I still not sure what is the valid name.


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