# Paphiopedilums That Will Do Good Without Cooler Period



## Happypaphy7 (Apr 23, 2016)

As large bulk of my collections have now moved to T8 light set up in my bedroom, I need to shuffle around my assortments.

The main issue is the temperature.
It is significantly warmer, day and night, then is outside. I have a fan going. 
This will be for both summer and winter.

I could use AC to keep day and night temperature cooler during the summer, and crack the window open a bit during cooler months, but livingroom is no longer an option.

I am rather sad because I have gathered up large amount of parvis and such which benefit from having cool winter to do well long term and flower well. 
I can keep some and have them by the window in the livingroom, but the space is very very limited. 

I was getting so depressed the other day thinking that I might have to give up these plants and go back to Phalaenopsis and vandas. No!!!!!

Anyways, so for those of you, who are growing under lights and not in the basement which stay cooler, especially in the winter, what are some paphs that do well long term without having cooler period.

I mean, in the current bedroom, it won't even get down to 65F any more.
It will always be like summer.

Some of the ones I have searched are ones in the cochlopetalum, of which I have two species and intersectional hybrids, althought not such a huge fan of them.

Then, lawrenceanum, hookerae ( I have it), leucochilum & nevium (I have them, do like their leaves, but not too fond of these flowers, they all look similar) stonei (says mostly warm but also have a cool period right before flowering).... not many.

Most of paph seem to go through some cooler period at some point in their habitat. 

I'm doomed! I guess it's time to move on and get used to a new love. lol


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## troy (Apr 23, 2016)

Paphs that require a higher low will also require a higher high, I'm finding that my godefroyaes, leucochilums, niveum, concolor & bellatulum hybrids & hangianum & hangianum hybrids take off at temps over 82 farenheit day temps and right at 68 night temp


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## tnyr5 (Apr 23, 2016)

You can grow anything in any room, it just depends upon how much effort you're willing to expend.


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## orchidman77 (Apr 23, 2016)

Don't give up! You should be able to grow the multi florals fairly well in your conditions. Like Paph stonei, roth and hybrids, etc...warm and bright!

Also, successful plant culture is the intersection of many things - water, light, air movement, temperature, potting substrate, nutrients - and if other variables are in line, one doesn't have to worry as much about one aspect of culture most of the time. 

David


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## troy (Apr 23, 2016)

Just about any plant will adapt to your conditions, david is right about multis will do good in your conditions!!! Kolopakingii, haynaldianum, phillipinense, sanderianum, rothschildianum, praestans aka glanduliferum will all do good in your conditions also adductum and var anitum, these multis natural habitats stay mostly warm year round


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## Happypaphy7 (Apr 23, 2016)

troy said:


> Paphs that require a higher low will also require a higher high, I'm finding that my godefroyaes, leucochilums, niveum, concolor & bellatulum hybrids & hangianum & hangianum hybrids take off at temps over 82 farenheit day temps and right at 68 night temp



Well, that temperature range is something I would be very happy with.
In the bedroom, it is already 75 at night, which is crazy.
During the day, it goes above 82. It is only a little over 70 outside today.

Night temp of 68 is very good for plants.


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## Happypaphy7 (Apr 23, 2016)

tnyr5 said:


> You can grow anything in any room, it just depends upon how much effort you're willing to expend.



That is not true.

Please read the first post in full and the temperature range I gave above in respond to Troy.

I am not going to blast AC for plants. I am going to have to grow what works with the conditions I have.


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## Happypaphy7 (Apr 23, 2016)

orchidman77 said:


> Don't give up! You should be able to grow the multi florals fairly well in your conditions. Like Paph stonei, roth and hybrids, etc...warm and bright!
> 
> Also, successful plant culture is the intersection of many things - water, light, air movement, temperature, potting substrate, nutrients - and if other variables are in line, one doesn't have to worry as much about one aspect of culture most of the time.
> 
> David



Thanks.

I read up on habitat info on multis.
In general I do not like care for multis. They get too big, which means I can only grow just a few and sacrifice everything else.
So back to the habitat, roth habitat info says it is not a warm grower, well, mostly warm temperature but it does go through considerably cooler period.

Stonie average temp shows higher than that for roth, but it says it does need slight cooling in the early spring before blooming.

Do people grow multis warm all the time without any fluctuation??
I don't think greenhouse people will understand because they will get natural fluctuation a lot better than city apartment.

Also, since I have a lot of parvis, they, especially armeniacum and micranthum do need cooler winter to do well and bloom well.
I know there are people who report some odd cases, but it is just that. It is not the norm. 
I honestly think people who struggle with these plants have two mistakes.
One, keeping them too warm. Two, keeping them too dry. 
Nothing else will compensate for them, again, I'm not talking about some odd plants that behave like they are something else.


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## troy (Apr 23, 2016)

Dennis olivas grows everything in an unheated uncooled greenhouse in east bay sf, and he blooms out everything catts, paphs, phrags, dendrobiums, what I'm saying is given enough time plants will adapt to your conditions, given they are not extreme hot or cold growers, then I gave you a list of multis that have a natural mostly warm habitat that would grow good in your conditions, given a 10 degree temp change from day to night for respiration


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## Happypaphy7 (Apr 23, 2016)

In short, my main concerns are night temp that are too high in any season (from now on) and winter day time temp being too high as well as night time temp as mentioned.

Unheated, uncooled greenhouse in east bay SF is a great environment, nothing like my hot apartment.

Just frustrated.

I guess I'll just pull out whatever do not thrive over time. 
I would really hate to not be able to have lots of armeniacum and micranthum and related hybrids. 
Time will tell while I wait for someone who has similar conditions report something.

I know many growers with light set up have their stuff at the basement or in a separate room where they can open windows or somehow manipulate conditions easier.

Fragrant Phalaenopsis will probably be my new friends. I don't know. This really upsets me.


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## troy (Apr 23, 2016)

Those multis I mentioned grow very close to sea level, so moderate year round they should do ok, although a drop in night temp helps with transpiration 10 degrees, is easily done, there are alot of research done on sleep temps & health, our bodies repair and produce human growth hormone when we sleep at lower temps between 65 & 70 research it


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## paphioland (Apr 23, 2016)

You can grown pretty much any paph in those temps. 65 nights 70 days. Actually the night is fine the day might not be hot enough for some Multis to grow at a fast rate but they will grow.


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## Happypaphy7 (Apr 23, 2016)

I know that lower night temperature is good for humans as well.
Hence, why people hate hot humid summer nights in NYC (well, without AC that is). just can't fall asleep!

The matter is a bit more complicated because now I grow in the bedroom and my significant other does not like AC. Go figure. lol

So, I have to deal with the conditions I have.

I don't like stonei, but I do have hybrids with it in it.
I guess time will tell.
I have Hsinying Lady Duck (seedling still), Pink Sky (multi growths but never flower lol) and some others. 

I guess I will be fine with leuco and nevium as their leaves are pretty but the flowers are boring since they tend to look similar. 
Oh, well...


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## Happypaphy7 (Apr 23, 2016)

paphioland said:


> You can grown pretty much any paph in those temps. 65 nights 70 days. Actually the night is fine the day might not be hot enough for some Multis to grow at a fast rate but they will grow.



Me? No, I don't have 65 night anymore. I wouldn't even be posting this if I did.

Right now, spring time still, I have well over 80 during the day (right now it is 86), and at night it won't fall below 75 even when outside temp is close to 65. I was up late til 3-4 to measure the room temperature. I am that stressed at the moment! 

The worst would be say some summer, when it gets cooking hot here in the city, I run AC during the day and the temp is good, then at night, my partner will ask me to shut off the AC (except on those unbearably hot nights), then the night temp will be higher or similar to the day temp. 
That would be bad for plants.

I wish I had a separate room to do whatever I want for plants. lol


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## troy (Apr 23, 2016)

hhmmm all I can say is comprimise would have to be considered. the great balance......


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## Happypaphy7 (Apr 23, 2016)

Yeah, oh, well...

I will see what grows and blooms best in about one two years time from now, and I will start making some big changes in what I will grow.


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## troy (Apr 23, 2016)

well I had to literally give away more than half of what I had over 1,500 spent on premium plants because I had to move, it took some serious convincing my girlfriend to let me continue my hobby...... hopefully it works out for you!! good luck!!!!


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## Happypaphy7 (Apr 23, 2016)

I know, moving sucks.
I moved and this is now what I have to live with. hahaha

I basically traded living room windowsill space for an extra light stand in the bedroom. lol


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## abax (Apr 23, 2016)

I'd say get a new girlfriend who's willing to compromise
with your interests.


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## troy (Apr 23, 2016)

If you are referring to me, I have no problems in that area, I've got quite a few goin in bloom here real soon


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## paphioland (Apr 23, 2016)

75 at night especially for a few months you can grow any paph


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## garysan (Apr 24, 2016)

Happypaphy7 said:


> I basically traded living room windowsill space for an extra light stand in the bedroom. lol



Can you not utilise both? That way your brachy's and the like could stay on the living room windowsill and have the others in the bedroom under lights? I guess it's more complicated than that otherwise you'd have done it I guess... 



abax said:


> I'd say get a new girlfriend who's willing to compromise
> with your interests.



I got the impression Happypaphy7 was female so it'd more likely be 'get a new boyfriend' although I believe 'partner' is the new PC term that covers all the bases 

Apologies if I've mis-read you there HP7


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## Happypaphy7 (Apr 24, 2016)

I will do what I can, but I have to now grow mostly under lights and some by the windows, but all in the bedroom. I will see how things go.

For clarification, I am a man and I am happily married to a man. I'm not leaving him for plants. lol
Life is great in NYC!


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## garysan (Apr 24, 2016)

Happypaphy7 said:


> For clarification, I am a man and I am happily married to a man. I'm not leaving him for plants. lol
> Life is great in NYC!





All is good 

I wonder if anyone on ST has actually left their significant other because of plants...... ???


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## Happypaphy7 (Apr 24, 2016)

Well, as crazy as it might sound at first, I can see unmarried (just because nothing legal or financial is binding them) not so happy relationship could use "great passion" for orchids as a great excuse to separate. and possibly and hopefully find a much better and working relationship in the future. 

Otherwise, they need help. hahaha


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## phraggy (Apr 25, 2016)

troy said:


> Paphs that require a higher low will also require a higher high, I'm finding that my godefroyaes, leucochilums, niveum, concolor & bellatulum hybrids & hangianum & hangianum hybrids take off at temps over 82 farenheit day temps and right at 68 night temp



Hi troy==if only we had those temperatures. Today has been around 7c and tonight around 1c--- and it doesn;t get a lot better. we have weather here and not seasons!!!

Ed


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## Bjorn (Apr 26, 2016)

phraggy said:


> Hi troy==if only we had those temperatures. Today has been around 7c and tonight around 1c--- and it doesn;t get a lot better. we have weather here and not seasons!!!
> 
> Ed


Do not complain, here the traffic was jammed due to heavy snowfall!:sob:


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## Happypaphy7 (Apr 26, 2016)

phraggy said:


> Hi troy==if only we had those temperatures. Today has been around 7c and tonight around 1c--- and it doesn;t get a lot better. we have weather here and not seasons!!!
> 
> Ed



You have a nice clean greenhouse where you can keep them warmer than outside, though! 

I know, it is strangely cool for late Spring here when we had cooking heat a few weeks back.
I was watching a soccer match yesterday (of UK), and everyone was dressed up as if it was a winter, now I know why.


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## gonewild (Apr 26, 2016)

paphioland said:


> 75 at night especially for a few months you can grow any paph



Do you mean that 75 at night is good if it is for at least a few months or do you mean if it's only for a few months 75 wont hurt.

What if it rarely gets cooler than 75 at night and often is 95 -100 during the day? (Tropical climate).


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## Ozpaph (Apr 26, 2016)

gonewild said:


> What if it rarely gets cooler than 75 at night and often is 95 -100 during the day? (Tropical climate).



Its like that months on end here (though daytime low 90s more common). Paphs grow great; but I do try to keep the parvis cooler with extra shade.


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## gonewild (Apr 26, 2016)

Ozpaph said:


> Its like that months on end here (though daytime low 90s more common). Paphs grow great; but I do try to keep the parvis cooler with extra shade.



That's good to know. I'm working on locating some paphs to try but they are not easy to find in Peru. I can keep them cooler in one of our cooled grow areas but I am hoping they will tolerate the heat in the garden shade so they grow energy free. I may have some Maudiae types in a few weeks so we'll see what happens.


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## paphioboy (Apr 26, 2016)

If your main concern is temperature, then what blooms for me will definitely bloom for you. lol. All brachys, all cochlopetalum and all multis fit the bill. And why limit yourself to species? Cochlopetalum x brachy as well as cochlo x multiflora crosses (which have smaller plant stature than multis and bloom semi-sequentially will flower well. Examples I have posted before are Ron Williamson (primulinum x niveum), Heeder Fladder (prim x godefroyae), Miss Faith Hanbury (niveum x glaucophyllum), Jogjae (glaucophyllum x praestans), Jolly Holiday (philippinense x liemianum).. There might be some novelty primary hybrids that can fit the bill (Angela, Olivia), although I have not tried them.


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## Happypaphy7 (Apr 28, 2016)

Thanks, but I know.
I already pointed out those groups that do well in the warmer conditions, niveum, leucochilum, colchol section, certain species in the Barbarta group, perhaps some multis (but I'm not into these).

Thing is these are what I am least interested in. lol
Hence the stress I'm going through.


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## troy (Apr 28, 2016)

I saw an anitum x liemianum in bloom at the s.f. poe show it was reletively small multi growth with semi sequentially blooms, looked really cool!!! If I had an extra 150.00 lol..


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## Ozpaph (Apr 29, 2016)

gonewild said:


> That's good to know. I'm working on locating some paphs to try but they are not easy to find in Peru. I can keep them cooler in one of our cooled grow areas but I am hoping they will tolerate the heat in the garden shade so they grow energy free. I may have some Maudiae types in a few weeks so we'll see what happens.



In my experience Maudiaes dont like the heat as much as multis etc.


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## gonewild (Apr 29, 2016)

Ozpaph said:


> In my experience Maudiaes dont like the heat as much as multis etc.



Is that true for all mottled leaf types or just the Maudiae family.


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## Happypaphy7 (Apr 29, 2016)

Maudiaes types are more intermediate than warm growers with exception of a few species. 
Mine always grow the best during cooler months of spring and fall.


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## Ozpaph (Apr 30, 2016)

Happypaphy7 said:


> Maudiaes types are more intermediate than warm growers with exception of a few species.
> Mine always grow the best during cooler months of spring and fall.



ditto


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## jtrmd (May 1, 2016)

tnyr5 said:


> You can grow anything in any room, it just depends upon how much effort you're willing to expend.



Over the years I learned this. The only thing I still havent managed to figure out are Masdies(cool growers). The humidity here in Baltimore can keep my Swamp cooler from keeping it cool enough during the day in Mid August. I adjust the shading on the GH for certain Microclimates for Paphs, Phals, Cattleyas, etc.


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