# Paph. godefroyae var. ang-thong



## Erythrone (Feb 22, 2018)

I am helping write an article on orchids names for the Orchidophiles de Montreal newletter. One of our goal is to explain the difference between forma and var. . We choose Paph. godefroyae var. ang-thong as an example of variety.

But I am not really sure what are the differences between a true godefroyae and godefroyae var. ang-thong, at least for a botanist.
Can anyone help?

Lise


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## Ozpaph (Feb 22, 2018)

is it addressed in any of the standard paph texts?
I suspect you picked a difficult example.


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## Erythrone (Feb 22, 2018)

OK.... I agree it may be too difficult... Do you have any suggestion ?


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## Ozpaph (Feb 23, 2018)

Im no botanist and I think we use the terms loosely.

As examples insigne - alboviride, sanderae vs Harefield Hall
or maybe micranthum alba, eburneum.

I was looking for Braems book and cant find it - it might answer the question.


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## Rob Zuiderwijk (Feb 24, 2018)

According to Braem's latest book, the entity _ang-thong_ has been proven to be a natural hybrid of _Paph. godefroyae_ and _Paph. niveum_, so the correct name than would be _Paphiopedilum _×_ang-thong_.


P.S.
Harefield Hall is the name of a clone of _insigne_ not a var. or f.


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## Erythrone (Feb 24, 2018)

Thanks to both of you!


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## Ozpaph (Feb 24, 2018)

Rob Zuiderwijk said:


> P.S.
> Harefield Hall is the name of a clone of _insigne_ not a var. or f.



I was using insigne as a reasonable example of the 'type' sp, a fma/var (ie alba) and a 'cultivar' 'Harefield Hall' (which many call a variety)


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## Rob Zuiderwijk (Feb 24, 2018)

Ozpaph said:


> I was using insigne as a reasonable example of the 'type' sp, a fma/var (ie alba) and a 'cultivar' 'Harefield Hall' (which many call a variety)



In that case it's clear that I misunderstood your message. My apologies.


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## Lance Birk (Feb 25, 2018)

Paph. godefroyae originates from the Bird's Nest Islands off the coast of Chumphon in the Gulf of Siam. P. niveum comes from the other side of the Tenasserim Range so there is zero possibility of a hybrid between the two species from ever occurring. 

"Koh Ang Thong" is an important island (especially to travelers) within the gulf and has been often cited as a locus for centuries, more recently by orchid hunters. That citation has been used by modern orchid sellers and thence named as a new species Paphiopedilum by resourceful people such as Ray Rands.

The species is variable within its range however the differences between it and with P. leucochilum cannot be mistaken, even though they consistently are by uninformed individuals.


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## Ozpaph (Feb 25, 2018)

Lance Birk said:


> Paph. godefroyae originates from the Bird's Nest Islands off the coast of Chumphon in the Gulf of Siam. P. niveum comes from the other side of the Tenasserim Range so there is zero possibility of a hybrid between the two species from ever occurring.
> 
> "Koh Ang Thong" is an important island (especially to travelers) within the gulf and has been often cited as a locus for centuries, more recently by orchid hunters. That citation has been used by modern orchid sellers and thence named as a new species Paphiopedilum by resourceful people such as Ray Rands.
> 
> The species is variable within its range however the differences between it and with P. leucochilum cannot be mistaken, even though they consistently are by uninformed individuals.



Thanks Lance may be you could help Lise with her taxonomic question and give her suitable examples?


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## Stone (Feb 28, 2018)

As I understand it, fma should precede things like different colours eg alba, coerulea, lutea. Variety should precede features like consistently different morphology eg latifolium, brevipetalum etc. It can get a bit confusing because a lack of anthocyanin in the concolor leaves is used to determine a variety ie: chlorophyllum. You can pretty much bet that most varieties are not botanical but cultivars or selections of different forms. A botanist would explain it better I'm sure but even they make mistakes as Lance points out.


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