# Can an orchid be awarded more than once ?



## Gilda (Feb 1, 2008)

Ok, I have an awarded phrag Memoria Dick Clements 'Sandy's Gem' ,that's blooms are bigger all over this blooming than the specs when it was awarded back in 1995. If I took it to a judging could it be awarded again ??? By the way, it is the second highest awarded MDC !


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## goldenrose (Feb 1, 2008)

What's the award? I assume an AM? I think this has come up before & the answer is/was yes.


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## cwt (Feb 1, 2008)

Gilda, here in South Africa we can, if everything is larger, bigger or better than last time, and the best (highest) award stands.


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## Roy (Feb 1, 2008)

Gilda, from my view, it could be awarded again...but....over here, it would have to point up to the NEXT award. If it already had a HCC, it would have to point to AM etc. It would be pointless to award the plant a second HCC.
Probably the same in the US, interesting to read other opinions.


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## neo-guy (Feb 1, 2008)

Yes, if the plant came up for AOS judging, it would not be considered unless it was to receive the next level of award, e.g. from HCC to AM. However i think it has happened that a plant can go from a low AM of say 80 points to a higher point score of 86 points. It would still be an AM. The clonal name would not change.
Peter.


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## Ernie (Feb 1, 2008)

It certainly can be awarded again. If you think it's nice, take it in! Although a step up from an 89 point AM to an FCC on ther same clone is a tough sell in this case because... You must keep in mind that the flowers will be compared against the *current* standard, not those that 'Sandy' Gem' established back in 1995. If size is the only improvement, the judges will see that there are two FCCs ('Jersey' and 'Flashpoint') and that the 'Flashpoint' clone awarded a 90 point FCC in 2005 was larger in all dimensions and that 'Jersey' awarded a 91 point FCC in 1995 (the same year 'Sandy's Gem' was awarded) is larger in all respects other than synsepal length and width and would likely pass on the elevation. 

HOWEVER, SIZE IS ONLY TEN POINTS!!! Color and form make up most of the points! If this flowering shows other improvements over current MDC awards, by all means take it in. What are the other attributes that makes this blooming special??? Are there a lot of flowers open at once? How many spikes, flowers, and buds are there? How many growths? 

-Ernie


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## Ernie (Feb 1, 2008)

neo-guy said:


> Yes, if the plant came up for AOS judging, it would not be considered unless it was to receive the next level of award, e.g. from HCC to AM. However i think it has happened that a plant can go from a low AM of say 80 points to a higher point score of 86 points. It would still be an AM. The clonal name would not change.
> Peter.



We've re-awarded a clone with a higher pointage with the same award. Something like described above, from a low AM to a high AM. In Gilda's case the clone has an 89 point AM. 

-Ernie


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## NYEric (Feb 1, 2008)

Oh show us!!


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## slippertalker (Feb 1, 2008)

It is rather uncommon to see awards raised although it has happened several times in the past. I have had one plant increased from 86 pts to 91 pts, and have seen a few others over the years. There are many factors that contribute, size is the most obvious but improved shape, color, number of flowers and arrangement are as important. With paphs and phrags, often a plant that is more mature will present a much improved blooming.


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## Candace (Feb 1, 2008)

I've received an upgrade of a past award. My cattleya bloomed out much larger, nicer and with more flowers than the past awarded HCC by someone else. Someone received an HCC of 77 in 2002 for it and I received an AM of 83 last year. http://www.csnjc.org/July2007/cgreenemerald.html

So, yes, upgrades do happen, but like everyone has stated the plant needs to compare to current awarded plants to be given a new award.


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## Gilda (Feb 1, 2008)

NYEric said:


> Oh show us!!



Here ya go..specs on this bloom : 10.5ct spread (prev. 9.6), 7.6 vert.(same) 2.5 (prev. 2.0)wide pouch
Nice and flat which was a big part of the first award ! You can get an idea of the size of the bloom from the whole picture photo. No HCC as this is a div. from the mother plant(which has not bloomed yet)..so what do you all think ??


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## Candace (Feb 1, 2008)

> No HCC as this is a div. from the mother plant(which has not bloomed yet)..so what do you all think ??



I'm confused. If this is a division of an awarded(HCC) plant, it carries the HCC award as well.


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## Candace (Feb 1, 2008)

For comparison, and it would be directly compared to this award for a FCC upgrade, an FCC was given in 2005 of 90 pts. the clone was 'Flashpoint'. Here are the specs.






Based on this award, your flower isn't as large as recently awarded. There isn't a photo of 'Flashpoint' so form and color aren't easily comparable.

There is an FCC that was awarded in '95( so much older) that yours seems to be very similar in size to. Here are the specs for 'Jersey'





Maybe one of the judges can comment, but from what I understand it would need to be very similar to the more recent FCC to be upgraded. But, it's a nice one for sure and worth the bench space!


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## NYEric (Feb 1, 2008)

Yay besseae hybrids!


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## Ernie (Feb 1, 2008)

Gilda said:


> Here ya go..specs on this bloom : 10.5ct spread (prev. 9.6), 7.6 vert.(same) 2.5 (prev. 2.0)wide pouch
> Nice and flat which was a big part of the first award ! You can get an idea of the size of the bloom from the whole picture photo. No HCC as this is a div. from the mother plant(which has not bloomed yet)..so what do you all think ??



I think she meant CCM (a cultural award) as the previous award to this clone was an 89 pt AM. 

-Ernie


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## Ernie (Feb 1, 2008)

AQ Plus has pictures of all three clones. Not very good images tho. 

-Ernie


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## NYEric (Feb 1, 2008)

Does AQ plus have photos and any awards for Pleuro. quadrifolia [aka rubens v. longifolia?]? Thread-Jack!


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## Candace (Feb 1, 2008)

Well, Mr. Thread-Jack...I found some awards for Plocoglottis quadrifolia and Habenaria quadrifolia-no pleuro. quadrifolia.


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## Ernie (Feb 1, 2008)

The only "quadrifolia" hit in AQ Plus is...

Plocoglottis quadrifolia 'Max', CHM/AOS (83 points), a scaph relative. Didn't find the Wiz's Habenaria q. 

-Ernie


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## Gilda (Feb 1, 2008)

Ernie said:


> I think she meant CCM (a cultural award) as the previous award to this clone was an 89 pt AM.
> 
> -Ernie



yep, that's what I meant CCM


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## NYEric (Feb 1, 2008)

I found something that looks the same Pleuro. rubens v. longifolium. Maybe my plant was mis-labelled. I'm wondering if it's worth bringing to an OS for judging?


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## Candace (Feb 1, 2008)

> Does AQ plus have photos and any awards for Pleuro. quadrifolia [aka rubens v. longifolia?]? Thread-Jack!



Mr. Jack, this plant is a.k.a. Anat.(Anathallis) rubens. There are no awards but here's a purty picture for you to aspire to.






Do a search under this name and maybe you'll have better luck. Start a new thread and post a photo or Gilda will beat your butt.


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## NYEric (Feb 1, 2008)

Candace said:


> There are no awards but here's a purty picture for you to aspire to.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You mean like this? Aspire to the plant or the photo? 
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3270&highlight=Pleurothallis
Gee Gilda please forgive me. I just wanted to use the AQ Plus while mom was in the shower! :wink:


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## Gilda (Feb 1, 2008)

"Gilda will beat your butt".
Don't tell NY Eric that Candace ! He probably would like it !:rollhappy:


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## NYEric (Feb 1, 2008)

Kinky!


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## rdlsreno (Feb 1, 2008)

Yes, infact one Paph. armeniacum 'Nova' was awarded a FCC of 93 pts. in 1987 then again another FCC of 96 pts. in 1988.:drool:

Ramon


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## Roy (Feb 1, 2008)

Candace said:


> I'm confused. If this is a division of an awarded(HCC) plant, it carries the HCC award as well.



Very true Candace, it doesn't matter how many divisions or mericlones are done of a plant, they ALL carry the same award as the parent plant.


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## Gilda (Feb 1, 2008)

So what is being said is ,it would be judged against the 2005 FCC awarded Flashpoint ? Someone mentioned seeing pictures..how did that one look ?? I know any divisions of an awarded plant carries the same award...I just didn't know if an awarded plant could be awarded again.


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## SlipperKing (Feb 1, 2008)

neo-guy said:


> However i think it has happened that a plant can go from a low AM of say 80 points to a higher point score of 86 points. It would still be an AM. The clonal name would not change.



This is true. Check on old awards (the Register of Awards) and you will see that it has occured a lot. But a higher AM, in my opinion is a waste of money. You could aways ask a judge(s) if they think a FCC is likely. Of course these judges couldn't set on the team to judge after you ask


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## Candace (Feb 1, 2008)

Gilda, yes it would be scored/compared to 'Flashpoint'. Look at the description of 'Flashpoint' that I posted. Does yours have as many flowers? Spikes? Like I said earlier, based on size it's smaller than the most recent FCC. I don't have AQ so can't post a photo. 



> . But a higher AM, in my opinion is a waste of money.


 I agree.


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## Rick (Feb 2, 2008)

I also don't think there is a limit on how many CCM's can be awarded for a plant/grower if it just keeps getting bigger and better.

The culture awards are for the quality of the growing, and not really the quality of the flower (within the norms for the clone)


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## berrywoodson (Feb 2, 2008)

RF got an FCC on three meristems of V. Robert's Delight on three different continents.


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## Gilda (Feb 2, 2008)

Maybe this one will be up to Flashpoint's specs one day..in the meantime ,I am going to put this one in the For Sale/ Trade thread area. Thanks for the wealth of info on how orchids are awarded.


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