# How to mix K-lite?



## The Mutant (Jun 3, 2013)

I'll just ask, despite feeling totally stupid...

So, here's the thing, I know I asked for mixing instructions when I bought it, but after suffering burn-out etc. I can't really make head or tails of them anymore. I got into my head that I misunderstood something in the previous instructions, and made the fertilizer too concentrated, now, I'm just confused.

I need help to firstly, calculate how strong the concentrated fertilizer should be (for one liter, metric system, please), and secondly, how much of the concentrated fertilizer I should use per liter when watering. I've underlined the 100 ppm N on the front of the bag that the K-lite arrived in, so that was what I was aiming for before apparently.

I can only mix one liter of concentrated fertilizer at a time, since I have limited space and nothing big enough to mix more in. I looked on Ray's website, and it didn't help me one bit, since I have no idea what anything means, so please help. 

So metric system and imagine you're talking to a five-year old, okay? Me and math are not good friends on the best of days, toss some chemistry into that and I'll have a mental breakdown. 

Since it says something about N on the front of the bag that the K-lite arrived in, I can say that the N levels in my tap water is <0.003 mg/l (NO2), it says nothing about K though.


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## Paphman910 (Jun 3, 2013)

The Mutant said:


> I'll just ask, despite feeling totally stupid...
> 
> So, here's the thing, I know I asked for mixing instructions when I bought it, but after suffering burn-out etc. I can't really make head or tails of them anymore. I got into my head that I misunderstood something in the previous instructions, and made the fertilizer too concentrated, now, I'm just confused.
> 
> ...



I agree that it is confusing on the website! You are not alone! That is the other reason I did not buy K-Lite fertilizer!


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## Rick (Jun 3, 2013)

Most of us have gone to 50ppm N or less per weekly feeding.

50ppm is about 1/4 tsp per gal.

If you want to go to 25 then 1/8 tsp/gal. 100 ppm N is roughly 1/2 tsp/gal.



given the variation in the size of the different particles, it's hard to get an even distribution when using small measuring devices.

So if you want to go for 50ppm N. Then make up a small quantity (maybe a liter or two) with a full teaspoon. Then after fully disolved then divide this concentrate up into four equal amounts to top up to the full gallon for fertilizing.

It's really all based on the old MSU fertilizer so if that's what you are used to in the past its no more complicated than that.


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## Rick (Jun 3, 2013)

K lite was made for RO or rain water, so the NPK values from your tap water are not relevant.

Mutant since I know the hardness and conductivity of your tap water (which are both fairly low) there very little K already in your tap water. By law a drinking water safe for human consumption will have little or no N in it too.

Just to note, this is not because the drinking water has been altered at the drinking water plant, but because surface waters are already very low in NPK (naturally).


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## Trithor (Jun 3, 2013)

Err Rick, I think mutant asked for metric, I am sure that teaspoon is reasonably universal, but gallon may be somewhat bigger than a liter. I assume that Mutant is asking how to mix up a liter concentrate and then how much of that concentrate to add to a liter to get a finished strength solution suitable to use?



Rick said:


> Most of us have gone to 50ppm N or less per weekly feeding.
> 
> 50ppm is about 1/4 tsp per gal.
> 
> ...


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## Ray (Jun 3, 2013)

What's so confusing?

If you look at the link given in the product description, you have a nice chart that tells you the g/L for 50, 75, 100, 125, and 150 ppm N. It also tells you how many grams to mix up to make a concentrate. (Click Here)

For example, for 50 ppm N, you need 0.38 g/L. If you wanted to make a concentrate, let's say 100:1, then you'd use 38.31 g/L, then use 10 ml of that concentrate to make a liter of 50 ppm N final solution.

As the stuff isn't the most uniform powder in the world, I suggest that folks dissolve the entire 2 pounds (908 g), making up 10 L of concentrate. That means the solution has 908/10000=0.0908 g/ml. If you use 4 ml of THAT to make up a liter (litre) of final solution, that will be 4 x 0.0908= 0.3633 g/liter, or 50 x .3633/.3832 = 47 ppm N - close enough.


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## Rick (Jun 3, 2013)

I think thats fine for big collections Ray, but Mutant has a small collection so making up 10 L of concentrate sounds like she would be using it for about 10 years.

I guess if she wants to work strictly metric the fast answer is 0.38g/L for about 50ppm N strength fertilizer.

If she makes up about a 10 L pot then 3.8gr in the 10L and through away the left overs after watering. 

2lbs at 3.8 gr per feeding round is about 240 feeding days. If weekly then thats over 4 years of feeding if you can feed your collection with 10 L.

What a deal!!


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## Rick (Jun 3, 2013)

I guess if you still want to mess with Teaspoons, that would be a "slightly heaped teaspoon in 7.5 L of water.

As Ray noted about the particle size issues, I wouldn't mess with anything less than a full tsp to get good even distribution.

Unless you do what a fellow member does, and re-grinds up small batches with a coffee grinder.:wink:


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jun 3, 2013)

This is what I do. I mix 5mL of K-lite (1 tspn) in about 2 liters of warm water. I shake it and swirl it, then walk away and come back in a few minutes. By then everything has dissolved. I top it off with a little less than 2 more liters water (1 gal). That concentration is used for catts, vandas, strap leafed paphs, large growing phrags. I reduce the concentration by 50% for all other paphs, pleurothallids, smaller phrags like besseae, neos, cacti and succulents.


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## Rick (Jun 3, 2013)

Eric Muehlbauer said:


> This is what I do. I mix 5mL of K-lite (1 tspn) in about 1 gal



Wow, Isn't that about 200 ppm N Eric?

That's about 4X stronger than I use on everything. Including my monster Catts and Vandas.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jun 3, 2013)

Well, its what works for me. Oh...I was wrong about reducing the concentration...I dilute it to 50% for the other orchids. Hmm....I thought I was doing about 100ppm. At any rate, this time of year my plants are outdoors and getting it weekly. Of course, today there was a heavy rain right after I fertilized, so they probably got nothing. But my plants mostly grow well, with no signs of damage from it. Getting great root growth and buds on previously stubborn plants.


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## goldenrose (Jun 3, 2013)

wouldn't the purchase of a TDS meter simplify all of this?


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## Rick (Jun 3, 2013)

goldenrose said:


> wouldn't the purchase of a TDS meter simplify all of this?



Yes, for all the problems with math we seem to have.


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## ALToronto (Jun 4, 2013)

33 g dissolved in 1 L of water (make sure you boil the water first!) makes a concentrated solution of 4000 ppm N. 

I have a 2 L jug, so I put 20 ml of the concentrated solution in 2 L of water to end up with 40 ppm N (100:1 dilution). Whatever the volume you mix for fertilizing, 1% of the concentrate will give you 40 ppm N. I hope this is clear enough.

I kept my first (plastic) bottle of concentrate on the kitchen counter, and it went cloudy after only a week. So now I use a glass bottle, fill it with boiling water and after the concentrate cools down, keep it in the fridge. My latest bottle was mixed over a month ago, and it's still clear blue.


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## Trithor (Jun 4, 2013)

I mix 100 g of fertilizer in 5 liter of water (5liter plastic container with a tap like is used for camping) I apply through an injector at 1 in 50. I think this works out very similar to what is above.


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## The Mutant (Jun 4, 2013)

Thank you all for helping this rather dense Paph owner out! 



Rick said:


> Most of us have gone to 50ppm N or less per weekly feeding.
> 
> 50ppm is about 1/4 tsp per gal.
> 
> ...


Nope, never used MSU, only cheap brands from the local stores (if I've used any at all).



Trithor said:


> Err Rick, I think mutant asked for metric, I am sure that teaspoon is reasonably universal, but gallon may be somewhat bigger than a liter. I assume that Mutant is asking how to mix up a liter concentrate and then how much of that concentrate to add to a liter to get a finished strength solution suitable to use?


That I did, and not even the teaspoons agree with each other. :rollhappy: In Sweden one tsp = 5ml while the American tsp = 4.92...ml. I think the British one differs too...

A gallon is about 3.75l, so it's a rather big difference. All adding to my confusion! 



Ray said:


> What's so confusing?
> 
> If you look at the link given in the product description, you have a nice chart that tells you the g/L for 50, 75, 100, 125, and 150 ppm N. It also tells you how many grams to mix up to make a concentrate. (Click Here)
> 
> ...


I wasn't certain that it was instructions for mixing up the concentrate or not, since it doesn't say so specifically (English is not my native language after all, plus I can be rather dense when reading instructions). Thanks for clarifying it me.  



ALToronto said:


> 33 g dissolved in 1 L of water (make sure you boil the water first!) makes a concentrated solution of 4000 ppm N.
> 
> I have a 2 L jug, so I put 20 ml of the concentrated solution in 2 L of water to end up with 40 ppm N (100:1 dilution). Whatever the volume you mix for fertilizing, 1% of the concentrate will give you 40 ppm N. I hope this is clear enough.
> 
> I kept my first (plastic) bottle of concentrate on the kitchen counter, and it went cloudy after only a week. So now I use a glass bottle, fill it with boiling water and after the concentrate cools down, keep it in the fridge. My latest bottle was mixed over a month ago, and it's still clear blue.


THIS helped a lot, thank you! Now I'm going to get some glass bottles and remix the fertilizer so I get it right this time.


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## Brabantia (Jun 4, 2013)

goldenrose said:


> wouldn't the purchase of a TDS meter simplify all of this?


I think the best solution to solve all the problems with teaspoon weight, dilution and concentrations is to buy a small balance like the one used to sale white powder along streets. They are available as for for example on e-bay (here) at a very low price. This what I am doing since many years to prepare my home-made fertilyser.
Out of curiosity I weighed 10 times the weight of fertilizer contained in a small plastic spoon which should deliver 1.5 gr. The mean weights was 1.99 gr with a std of 0.14 gr. So for me the best way is to use a low cost balance in order to be sure about what we are doing.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jun 4, 2013)

Good if you go through it quickly enough...but for my small collection, I'm still on the container I bought over a year ago. Its hygroscopic, so I'm sure that at this point a tspn would weigh more for me now than when I first bought it.


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## cnycharles (Jun 5, 2013)

for us americans who want to do small volume measurement exchanges, it's easy to remember that one liter is about equal to a fat quart (liter is a tiny bit bigger than a quart)

probably a good pinch into a liter of water would be enough to use if you were feeding every time.


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## The Mutant (Jun 5, 2013)

goldenrose said:


> wouldn't the purchase of a TDS meter simplify all of this?


If you happen to be made out of money it might be. I checked the price on TDS meters here in Sweden, and let's just say that I could buy a bunch of BS sized roths for the same price as some of them! :rollhappy: They're expensive...


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## Ray (Jun 5, 2013)

I think that part of the issue is the fact that we are trying to be quite precise, and that the K-Lite is manufactured in small-, hence variable lots.

In general, for mass-marketed powdered fertilizers, the bulk density is fairly stable, so the "X/%N=teaspoons per gallon for Y ppm N" is pretty reasonable.

Specialty fertilizers, being produced in smaller batches on infrequent, intermittent schedules, can be affected by the available raw materials, which affects the bulk density.

I put two pounds in a quart jar. For the MSU WW & RO formulas, that two pounds occupies maybe 65-70% of the volume. For the K-Lite fertilizer formula coming from the same manufacturing plant, two pounds from the first, 50# batch almost filled that jar, the next one (125#) was about like the MSU's, and for the last several batches (all larger, and ground and blended more uniformly), they seem to have settled in at about 85% of the quart volume. And who's to say how much compacting or fluffing occurs during shipping?

So if I am dealing with a bulk density that's 15-20% lower than the MSU, my "teaspoons = ppm N" factors are all off, and just how many ppm's am I supplying????


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## dodidoki (Jun 5, 2013)

Hello!

I think K-lite -or other fertilizer method- can be good just if you buy a TDS meter.

One of favourite fertilizer is in my country is Wuxal for orchids. Many growers adviced it one ml/L cc, but I measured it: it gives 350 ppm!!!!!!!

I mix K-lite from collection I can get in local agricultural shop.
I can get 27% N solution ( ammonium nitrate), 21/10% Ca/N solution ( Ca-nitrate), epsom salt from pharmacy ( MgSO4 X 7 H2O) and Wuxal and some special microelement solution.

There is a good K-lite form:
13% N, 10 % Ca, 4% Mg, 3% P, 3% K and micros.

I calculated my mix by this formula, a add these solution some RO water and after this I dilute solution to 100 ppm. I use it for EVERY waterings, and results are unbelivalbe good.


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## ALToronto (Jun 5, 2013)

cnycharles said:


> for us americans who want to do small volume measurement exchanges, it's easy to remember that one liter is about equal to a fat quart (liter is a tiny bit bigger than a quart)
> 
> probably a good pinch into a liter of water would be enough to use if you were feeding every time.



No, a pinch in a litre would be quite an overdose.

Is there no access to Amazon in Sweden? I bought a TDS meter for $15.


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## The Mutant (Jun 6, 2013)

ALToronto said:


> No, a pinch in a litre would be quite an overdose.
> 
> Is there no access to Amazon in Sweden? I bought a TDS meter for $15.


We have something similar to it, but no TDS meters I'm afraid. Sweden is just too small, or rather, the market for TDS meters is too small.


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## Brabantia (Jun 6, 2013)

ALToronto said:


> No, a pinch in a litre would be quite an overdose.
> 
> Is there no access to Amazon in Sweden? I bought a TDS meter for $15.



Sweden as acces to e-Bay Germany. TDS meter or small balance can be baught by direct buy (sofort kaufen). Look Here.


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## The Mutant (Jun 6, 2013)

Brabantia said:


> Sweden as acces to e-Bay Germany. TDS meter or small balance can be baught by direct buy (sofort kaufen). Look Here.


That's not a TDS meter, is it? I don't speak a word of German but it's good to know that there might be cheaper TDS meters not too far away at least.


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## Brabantia (Jun 6, 2013)

The Mutant said:


> That's not a TDS meter, is it? I don't speak a word of German but it's good to know that there might be cheaper TDS meters not too far away at least.


This is not a TDS you need but a small balance. You weight 20 gr of KLite, you dissolve these in 500 ml of rain water (stock solution). You take 10 ml of this solution and you put it in 1 liter of rain water ... taking into account that the KLite is 13% N you have a solution containing 52 mgr/L of nitrogen. If you take 8 ml of this stock solution you have 42 mgr/L of nitrogen. This method is more accurate than the use of a TDS meter because this device must be calibrated not the balance. A weight is an absolute measure and TDS ( base on conductivity) is a relative measure.


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## Stone (Jun 6, 2013)

Got my klite today (thanks Ray) Can someone tell me the EC of 100ppm N of klite (or 50ppm or whatever) solution without me having to find a set of scales?
Thanks.


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## tomkalina (Jun 6, 2013)

Mike,

All you need is a postal scale to weigh out 2 lb of K-Lite, dissolve it in a 5 gal bucket of R/O water and the resultant solution, if applied at the rate of 1 ounce per gal., will give you approx. 50 ppm of N, with total dissolved solids about 400 ppm. The EC of the final solution should be about .360-.365 micro-siemens/liter. In my case, I add approx. 8 cups ( 64 oz) to 55 gal of R/O and end up with approx. 50 ppm N in my irrigation water, assuming an 85% conversion.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jun 6, 2013)

Now I have 5 gal buckets...but if I were to dissolve all my K lite, exactly how long would that solution last? Will it last me 2-3 years? Because that is basically how long such a container lasts me, given the size of my collection. My container is now on its 2nd year, and I anticipate having about a years worth remaining (unless it gets so humid and clumped I have to toss it and order more). Just how long would a 5 gal concentrate last me?


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## Stone (Jun 6, 2013)

tomkalina said:


> Mike,
> 
> All you need is a postal scale to weigh out 2 lb of K-Lite, dissolve it in a 5 gal bucket of R/O water and the resultant solution, if applied at the rate of 1 ounce per gal., will give you approx. 50 ppm of N, with total dissolved solids about 400 ppm. The EC of the final solution should be about .360-.365 micro-siemens/liter. In my case, I add approx. 8 cups ( 64 oz) to 55 gal of R/O and end up with approx. 50 ppm N in my irrigation water, assuming an 85% conversion.



Thanks Tom. I came up with more or less the same EC by disolving 5gms in a Litre and dividing.

Ray, is the 1.3% P in the Klite the % of actual P or the % of P205?


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## ALToronto (Jun 6, 2013)

I bought a little 'coke dealer' scale on Amazon for $9.99, free shipping for a total order over $25, batteries included. 100 g range, 0.01 g accuracy. I have to shield it from air flow and breathe to the side when I'm using it. Surprisingly accurate. 

I weigh out 33 g in a paper cup, pour the powder into my 1 L glass bottle and pour a little cold water into the bottle first. Then fill with nearly boiling water. 

Eric, you would be crazy to mix up a 2-3 year supply of concentrate. Even if you kept it in a fridge, you would still get bacteria growing in it within a couple of months. If you're concerned about moisture degrading the powder, get a spray can of Bloxygen or X-tendit and flush out the air space in the jar just before you close the lid.


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## Stone (Jun 6, 2013)

Ray said:


> > Specialty fertilizers, being produced in smaller batches on infrequent, intermittent schedules, can be affected by the available raw materials, which affects the bulk density.
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't have scales and you measure a very granular fert by the teaspoon you can grind it up into a finer powder with a small motar and pestle. The difference in volume can be surprizing.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jun 6, 2013)

No, I never had the intention of doing that. I was just curious as to how long such a concentrate could last. No...I'll just keep my jar and the handy red scoop that Ray sends, and measure a tspn into my gal jug whenever I need to make some.


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