# Latest kovachii FCC



## MorandiWine (Feb 21, 2014)

From the Pacific Orchid Expo in SF. Exhibited by Peruflora.

Sorry for the bad I-Phone pic.

Tyler










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## jeremyinsf (Feb 21, 2014)

OrchidZone bought it for use in breeding.


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## MorandiWine (Feb 21, 2014)

Thought that might happen . Good luck to them I hope they do great things with it.


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## Ozpaph (Feb 21, 2014)

its sits so nicely


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## phrag guy (Feb 21, 2014)

that is very nice,great to see


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## eOrchids (Feb 21, 2014)

Lovely!


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## Paph_LdyMacBeth (Feb 21, 2014)

Its a nice one. I like the colouring variation.


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## eteson (Feb 21, 2014)

Very nice one


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## NYEric (Feb 21, 2014)

Nice. I wish there was something next to it to show how big the blooms really are. Thanks for sharing; and Congrats to the Arias'.
I guess this means my Peruflora order is on the way.


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## jeremyinsf (Feb 21, 2014)

I'm going again this morning, I will try to get you the 'perspective shot'.


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## abax (Feb 21, 2014)

I'm sorry, but I don't see much improvement here. The dorsal is off-color and too small. The pouch is a very nice, velvety color though. I too hope
OZ can do some spectacular work with them.


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## NYEric (Feb 21, 2014)

abax said:


> I'm sorry, but I don't see much improvement here. The dorsal is off-color and too small.


 F..C..C!!!
May be because it's a phone photo.


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## monocotman (Feb 21, 2014)

How long will it be before we see seedlings of this plant crossed with Tesado morado?
Some of those should be amazing!
David


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## jeremyinsf (Feb 21, 2014)

Here are two pictures. I did one with the flash just so it wasn't blurry and gave better perspective on the shape.

For the one with the ruler, keep in mind the ruler is far enough to the front so I wasn't at risk of touching the plant, so it's perspective is off just a bit. The flower is about five and a half inches wide.


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## NYEric (Feb 21, 2014)

Go ahead! Touch the plant! :evil:- homage to WOC 2008 Miami! 
Thanks for the perspective.


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## theorchidzone (Feb 21, 2014)

Here is our thinking on the plant:
This includes some input from Peruflora
--good news for everyone: Peruflora has done selective breeding. They have bred for vigor and compactness. These plants bloom 4 years from flask, I believe (we all have stories of the first generation  ). For example this is a 5 growth plant. I don't think the leaf span is much above 12 inches.
--not the biggest kovachii flower but still opening
--color is excellent. It is not easy to capture by photo. The difficulty is sort of illustrated by the two photos being very different in color. [not just my judgment. The Perfuflora grower held this view of the darkness]
--the flower is flat. None of that ruffling/recurving etc
--they grow them in about 50% river sand (they called it sand, but really about 1/4 inch across -- so pebbles?) 50% organic. Also called the sand "limestone rock"
--lots of water: I think everyone knows that about Phrags already. 
--and yes, the pollen is coming off on Monday!!!


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## jeremyinsf (Feb 21, 2014)

100% agree on the color and the (bad) photos etc. The room at Fort Mason is really dark, so there isn't much to work with on a cell phone camera. It's a beautiful flower and I'm excited to see what they do with it!


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## slippertalker (Feb 21, 2014)

That is a very fresh blooming.....the flower will continue to grow over the next few weeks. I have bloomed 3 plants so far and one was very similar to this one with a nice dark color. It is difficult to compare newly opened flowers to mature flowers since they change as they age. My flowers all grew from around 14-15 cm spread to 19cm+ when mature. The form also changes especially in response to higher temperatures. The species is spectacular by nature and is by far the largest in the genus.


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## mrhappyrotter (Feb 21, 2014)

Not to be negative, I'm genuinely curious. Regarding the flatness of the flower - is that actually holding?

What I've noticed in nearly all kovachii hybrids I've seen and bloomed is that the flowers open up, look great for a bit in terms of flatness and petal stance, and then slowly or sometimes quickly, the shape turns to crap.

While kovachii undoubtedly brings size into the equation, overall, I've been a bit underwhelmed with the shape and more importantly color of its hybrids in general. Here's hoping that this plant at least might help overcome the issue with petal shape and stance!


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Feb 21, 2014)

I have yet to see a kovachii hybrid that has truly impressed me. Now, the species, on the other hand.......! Well, maybe some day it will be easier and remotely affordable for me.....


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## jeremyinsf (Feb 21, 2014)

This one impressed me - the flower wasn't even all the way open yet. That's my hand and part of my arm side by side with the flower. I think this at least shows what kovachii is capable of adding to Phrags in general.


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## Justin (Feb 21, 2014)

whoah!


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## theorchidzone (Feb 22, 2014)

Thanks for posting Jeremy. The very big flower is at our greenhouse, I believe.
That is kovachii X one of the long petalled ones. We obtained the seedlings, ie. not our cross. 
It is indeed pretty darn big!!!


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## theorchidzone (Feb 22, 2014)

On the kovachii it will be hard to judge the final size and shape since it is sitting in an orchid show with low humidity for 5 days. 

The petals have no hint of recurve etc. Perfectly flat at the moment. Keep our fingers crossed.


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## mrhappyrotter (Feb 22, 2014)

jeremyinsf said:


> This one impressed me - the flower wasn't even all the way open yet. That's my hand and part of my arm side by side with the flower. I think this at least shows what kovachii is capable of adding to Phrags in general.



Agreed. That's a nice flower.

Overall, when it comes to kovachii hybrids, the quality is very hit or miss. I expect that to improve over time, but the vast majority of kovachii hybrids suffer from some major flaws. The color tends to be disappointingly pale and muted and the petals tend to reflex or twist in undesirable ways. More and more, though, I am seeing vast improvements on both fronts.

Either way, thanks for sharing these photos. I'm sure others agree. It's encouraging to see such promising clones!


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## eaborne (Feb 22, 2014)

Simply outstanding!!


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## jeremyinsf (Feb 22, 2014)

Yes, that's your flower at the OZ, sorry I didn't mention that.

I really couldn't believe it when I saw it - my jaw dropped open. I know we 'talk' about how this species discovery was such a game changer... but it wasn't until I saw this one that I really 'felt' it. 

Glad you are OK with me sharing the photos! I mean well


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## theorchidzone (Feb 22, 2014)

No problem on photos.
JC


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## Ozpaph (Feb 22, 2014)

jeremyinsf said:


> That's my hand and part of my arm side by side with the flower.



I assume you're not a 4yo child...............


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## jeremyinsf (Feb 22, 2014)

No, fully grown adult male


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## mormodes (Feb 22, 2014)

jeremyinsf said:


> Yes, that's your flower at the OZ, sorry I didn't mention that.
> 
> I really couldn't believe it when I saw it - my jaw dropped open. I know we 'talk' about how this species discovery was such a game changer... but it wasn't until I saw this one that I really 'felt' it.



Yeah, my jaw dropped too. I couldn't believe how nice it was. Glad it got the FCC and best of show. Truly beautiful, I don't think any photo can do it justice.

[email protected], will you try to convert this to 4n?


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## MorandiWine (Feb 22, 2014)

That hybrid is HUGE!! Fantastic!!


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## gnathaniel (Feb 22, 2014)

Nice flowers! Thanks for the size/lighting comparisons, Jeremy.

WRT Pk hybrids, I'd bet money (not much, but maybe a little) that we'll see substantial improvements in color as more are made/remade with kovachii as pod, rather than pollen parent. Since plants have more plastids/organelles carrying their own discrete genes than do animals, maternal influence on crosses is potentially much higher. Pk being so rare at first, it's been used far more as 'dad' than 'mom' b/c: 1) there's more pollen than free stigmatic surfaces to go around, and 2) being daddy is relatively costless to an orchid, whereas growing a pod, especially on plants already somewhat marginal in culture, runs the risk of killing or compromising the plant. Something else I'd speculate as a factor is that on very large flowers, pollen from related but smaller species can have trouble growing a long enough tube to reach the ovaries, making 'small' x 'big' crosses more likely to produce seed than 'big' x 'small'. As more crosses are tried with Pk as mom, especially backcrosses from larger-flowered Pk hybrids, I suspect that due to increased maternal influence, greater expression of recessives, etc., we'll start seeing more of that stunning Pk color depth carrying through.


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## Ozpaph (Feb 22, 2014)

gnathaniel said:


> Nice flowers! Thanks for the size/lighting comparisons, Jeremy.
> 
> WRT Pk hybrids, I'd bet money (not much, but maybe a little) that we'll see substantial improvements in color as more are made/remade with kovachii as pod, rather than pollen parent. Since plants have more plastids/organelles carrying their own discrete genes than do animals, maternal influence on crosses is potentially much higher. Pk being so rare at first, it's been used far more as 'dad' than 'mom' b/c: 1) there's more pollen than free stigmatic surfaces to go around, and 2) being daddy is relatively costless to an orchid, whereas growing a pod, especially on plants already somewhat marginal in culture, runs the risk of killing or compromising the plant. Something else I'd speculate as a factor is that on very large flowers, pollen from related but smaller species can have trouble growing a long enough tube to reach the ovaries, making 'small' x 'big' crosses more likely to produce seed than 'big' x 'small'. As more crosses are tried with Pk as mom, especially backcrosses from larger-flowered Pk hybrids, I suspect that due to increased maternal influence, greater expression of recessives, etc., we'll start seeing more of that stunning Pk color depth carrying through.



Very interesting thoughts, thanks.


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## NYEric (Feb 23, 2014)

When I first saw a kovachii bloom in person, 2008 WOC, I was blown away by the size, dark color, and velvet texture, and I knew it was a game changer on par w/ besseae. IMO the only real negative of the bloom is the poor substance which shows as floppy, curving petals and dorsal. If this one stays flat and full...!!! Thanks for sharing, John and everyone else.


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## theorchidzone (Feb 23, 2014)

mormodes said:


> Yeah, my jaw dropped too. I couldn't believe how nice it was. Glad it got the FCC and best of show. Truly beautiful, I don't think any photo can do it justice.
> 
> [email protected], will you try to convert this to 4n?



Yes, we will likely try to convert some kovachii. The newer methods make it much easier to do so these days.
We suspect that some of our besseae flavum are 4N. For example, the round one we posted a few months ago. (and on our FB page).
I believe EYOF tried to convert kovachii also on a selfing of their best clone, named "Trinity"???.
Apparently Peruflora had another one awarded FCC in Florida too quite recently. They sold it and we are trying to find out who owns it, for obvious reasons.


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## eteson (Feb 23, 2014)

Yes, the new methods of conversion are much safer and easier than the colchicine one. Also seems to me that the PLB lost during treatmeny is much lower. I hope to see soon some of your selected breeding kovachii and other plants converted! 

Enviado desde mi SGH-I337M mediante Tapatalk


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## Ghosthunt64 (Feb 23, 2014)

It definitely deserves it; deep color and very good shape. The size goes without saying, of course.


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## Erythrone (Feb 23, 2014)

eteson said:


> Yes, the new methods of conversion are much safer and easier than the colchicine one. Also seems to me that the PLB lost during treatmeny is much lower. I hope to see soon some of your selected breeding kovachii and other plants converted!
> 
> Enviado desde mi SGH-I337M mediante Tapatalk



eteson, whait is PLB?


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## mormodes (Feb 23, 2014)

theorchidzone said:


> Yes, we will likely try to convert some kovachii. The newer methods make it much easier to do so these days.
> We suspect that some of our besseae flavum are 4N. For example, the round one we posted a few months ago. (and on our FB page).
> I believe EYOF tried to convert kovachii also on a selfing of their best clone, named "Trinity"???.
> Apparently Peruflora had another one awarded FCC in Florida too quite recently. They sold it and we are trying to find out who owns it, for obvious reasons.



There was 'Crystelle' awarded FCC in 2013, but I don't think that's the one you mean. That was Jan 2013.

Did you notice the last slide the EYOF showed at the paph guild was a cross of a 4N kovachii onto another 4n (Don Wimber?? I can't remember) I just was blown away they had a 4N kovachii already.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for your 4n endeavors. Personally I don't think we've even scratched the surface of this species potential.


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## theorchidzone (Feb 24, 2014)

I posted a glamor shot on our Facebook page. The flower is not quite as pink as in the photo. It has a little more purple shade.
https://www.facebook.com/theorchidzone


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## MorandiWine (Feb 25, 2014)

It could be tie dye and it is still an awesome flower! Glad that you picked it up and are going to work with it. Cant wait to see/hear what is done.

Tyler


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## SlipperFan (Feb 25, 2014)

Very nice, indeed!


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## John M (Feb 26, 2014)

Can't see the pic.  Facebook is a pain.


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## theorchidzone (Feb 26, 2014)

John M said:


> Can't see the pic.  Facebook is a pain.


I'll put a pic on ST for the non-Facebookers when I get a chance.


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