# Paphiopedilum parishii culture advice



## jokerpass (Oct 2, 2021)

I just received 3 very healthy Paphiopedilum parishii from Paph Paradise this morning, very happy with the qualitiy. It is known to be difficult to grow because it has weak genes. This will be my 3rd attempt to grow it since I started collecting orchids over 15 years ago. Paph parishii is rarely offered by Paph vendors if you can find one. I know that another US Paph vendor has it but he attempted to sell me a NBS one with very little roots (2 roots) a few years. He brought the plant to Canada from US and I rejected the plant from this Paph vendor since the plant had very little roots.

Anyway, I had some experience with Paph parishii in the past but not very successful. From my past failures, I think it requires lower light than Paph rothschidianum, Paph philippinese? I know that in the fall and winter, it has to be grown on the dryer side. If anyone has any advise on growing it, much will be appreciated.

Thank you


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## Stone (Oct 3, 2021)

Quick drying after water seems to be the (one) key. Keep them in a small pot - slightly cramped. The faster they dry out, the more you can water them and the happier they will be.


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## Greenpaph (Oct 3, 2021)

The plants  look great!
I'll take the larger one


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## jokerpass (Oct 3, 2021)

Stone said:


> Quick drying after water seems to be the (one) key. Keep them in a small pot - slightly cramped. The faster they dry out, the more you can water them and the happier they will be.


Thank you


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## Karp60 (Oct 4, 2021)

Good luck and do not forget the post the photos!


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## jokerpass (Oct 4, 2021)

Karp60 said:


> Good luck and do not forget the post the photos!


Thank you. I managed to keep a medium seedling alive for 2-3 years before and rotted maybe 2 years from blooming. I got some very useful tips specifically for Paph parishii from *DrLeslieEe since he has a collection himself. I also got some tips from some other menbers here, much is appreciated. I hope, once I tweaked the conditions, they will be okay. Also, the 2 big plants are the biggest Paph parishii I ever purchased, so I hope they will be easier to take care.*


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## skirincich (Oct 4, 2021)

Is Paph Paradise a good resource for growing these plants?


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## jokerpass (Oct 4, 2021)

On the website, Paph Paradise says that he doesn't do anything special. He has a greenhouse, located in California, grown besides other multiflorous paphs. I live in Toronto, Canada, can only grow outdoor in the summer time. Many people I know rotted Paph parishii (if you can find one) over the years. From my own experience before, I know that from September onwards, grow on the dryer side until the next growing cycle. I want to know what other people's experience who don't have a greenhouse and grow indoor with similar conditions I have currently. I do notice that he pots them in very small pots (for the size of the plant) considering it's a multiflurous species. So, I got confirmation from DrLeslieEe that they need to be potted in the smallest pot possible like a dendrobium (I didn't know about this fine point for example about this among other things). Another example is the light requirement. I checked the light requirement as well from the Paph book by Braems, Baker, and Baker, it only requires around 1500-2000 fc which is low for a multiflorous Paph. There are some fine points about this Paph species that are a bit different than other multiflorous Paph species such as rothschildianum and philippinense.


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## Paphman910 (Oct 6, 2021)

jokerpass said:


> On the website, Paph Paradise says that he doesn't do anything special. He has a greenhouse, located in California, grown besides other multiflorous paphs. I live in Toronto, Canada, can only grow outdoor in the summer time. Many people I know rotted Paph parishii (if you can find one) over the years. From my own experience before, I know that from September onwards, grow on the dryer side until the next growing cycle. I want to know what other people's experience who don't have a greenhouse and grow indoor with similar conditions I have currently. I do notice that he pots them in very small pots (for the size of the plant) considering it's a multiflurous species. So, I got confirmation from DrLeslieEe that they need to be potted in the smallest pot possible like a dendrobium (I didn't know about this fine point for example about this among other things). Another example is the light requirement. I checked the light requirement as well from the Paph book by Braems, Baker, and Baker, it only requires around 1500-2000 fc which is low for a multiflorous Paph. There are some fine points about this Paph species that are a bit different than other multiflorous Paph species such as rothschildianum and philippinense.



Paph parishii likes to grow in tropical conditions during the growing season with about 1500 to 2000 fc. In the cooler season temperatures are in the intermediate to cool conditions and the plant does not like to be constantly wet during the cooler months. In winter the plant gets higher light and likes to to dry out before watering.


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## jokerpass (Oct 6, 2021)

Paphman910 said:


> Paph parishii likes to grow in tropical conditions during the growing season with about 1500 to 2000 fc. In the cooler season temperatures are in the intermediate to cool conditions and the plant does not like to be constantly wet during the cooler months. In winter the plant gets higher light and likes to to dry out before watering.



Thank you for the pointers. I will grow Paph parishii with my spring blooming Dendrobiums that gets 15C every night.


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## Paphman910 (Oct 6, 2021)

I could not grow get parishii to flower so I gave it to my friend who grew it along side his Dendrobium cuthbertsonii and Phrag bessae with a minimum temperature set to 10c in a greenhouse. He put the plant higher up so it gets bright light. He flowered it may times.


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## jokerpass (Oct 6, 2021)

Paphman910 said:


> I could not grow get parishii to flower so I gave it to my friend who grew it along side his Dendrobium cuthbertsonii and Phrag bessae with a minimum temperature set to 10c in a greenhouse. He put the plant higher up so it gets bright light. He flowered it may times.


Thank you. DrLeslieEe said that he has luck with it when he brings the temp down to 16C. 

I grow my Cymbidium goeringii in the basement room in the winter time for like 3 months but the temp must be between 0C-10C at all times to do vernalization (in order to bloom the buds every year). I think this will be too cold for Paph parishii.


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## Paphman910 (Oct 6, 2021)

jokerpass said:


> Thank you. DrLeslieEe said that he has luck with it when he brings the temp down to 16C.
> 
> I grow my Cymbidium goeringii in the basement room in the winter time for like 3 months but the temp must be between 0C-10C at all times to do vernalization (in order to bloom the buds every year). I think this will be too cold for Paph parishii.



I do agree that 0 to 10C is a bit too cool for Paph parishii. Maybe due to breeding the current generation of Paph parishii can tolerate warmer temperatures.


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## werner.freitag (Oct 9, 2021)

Paphman910 said:


> I could not grow get parishii to flower so I gave it to my friend who grew it along side his Dendrobium cuthbertsonii and Phrag bessae with a minimum temperature set to 10c in a greenhouse. He put the plant higher up so it gets bright light. He flowered it may times.


the light should be as for Cattleya, literature gives a wrong advice


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## Stone (Oct 11, 2021)

jokerpass said:


> , I got confirmation from DrLeslieEe that they need to be potted in the smallest pot possible like a dendrobium


Yep. I learned this the hard way...twice! Had 3 now have 1. Dianthum is similar too I think.


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## jokerpass (Oct 11, 2021)

Stone said:


> Yep. I learned this the hard way...twice! Had 3 now have 1. Dianthum is similar too I think.


Yes, Paph dianthum's is also known as Paph parishii var. dianthum. However, I think Paph dianthum is a little bit easier than the true parishii.
I know, Paph parishii is not an easy one. I also know that many Paph parishii are wildy collected from Thailand and the wildly collected ones are even more difficult than the seed-grown ones.


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## tenman (Oct 11, 2021)

Its a cool grower. A lot of people aren't awasre there is a large section of paphs which are cool growers including druryi, venustum, spicerianum, and others like parishii.


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## jokerpass (Oct 11, 2021)

I am reading Paph parishii growing chart from the book written by Braems, Baker, and Baker. Throughout the years, the daytime high is always above 20C (in early spring and summer, it goes up to 28C-31C during the day). I don't think it's a cooler grower. However, the night time low in the winter time goes down as low as 7C. From what I understand from other people on this forum, you grow it intermediate to warm from spring to fall. In the winter, during the day, can still provide 20C-25C during the day, but in the evening, it has to be cool. I can grow them with the spring dendrobiums where the night temp goes down to 15C. Let's see if it's going to be okay. Also, for this particular species, I was also told to be grown on the dryer side and pot them into th smallest pot possible (like a dendrobium).


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## werner.freitag (Oct 13, 2021)

this is for Kanchanaburi province, a habitat in Thailand


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## jokerpass (Oct 13, 2021)

werner.freitag said:


> View attachment 30022
> 
> 
> this is for Kanchanaburi province, a habitat in Thailand


thanks...it is very similar to the Paph book I have (day time high temp) and the rainfal amount. For this species, in the winter time the temp in the night is cool/cold (with a huge diurnal difference, 15C), I think that's the challenge for me, will see if I can grow with my spring blooming Dendrobium species that require the cool winter rest.


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## Paphman910 (Oct 13, 2021)

It would be nice if the temperature chart have data of light intensity and humdity and precipitation. That would give us more information on how to grow it.


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## jokerpass (Oct 13, 2021)

I have the complete data from the Paph species book by Braems, Baker and Baker. Attached is the information from the book. Usually, these books are very good if you follow as closely as possible. However, since Paph parishii is difficult to grow, I just want to hear from growers who have personal experience and also some pointers (such as the smallest pot possible which is not common for Paph) not written in the book.


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## werner.freitag (Oct 13, 2021)

jokerpass said:


> thanks...it is very similar to the Paph book I have (day time high temp) and the rainfal amount. For this species, in the winter time the temp in the night is cool/cold (with a huge diurnal difference, 15C), I think that's the challenge for me, will see if I can grow with my spring blooming Dendrobium species that require the cool winter rest.


night temperatures there 20C in January
here in the north 5-10 degrees lower


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## LO69 (Dec 3, 2021)

I can only second the correct info given by other members. Small pot, a draining compost, 
12/15*C night temp. with higher day temp.(20/22*C).In my pots I used to place polistirene chips for extra drainage.
Regarding light requirement I notice that when given same cattleya light the leaves are more yellow but you get good blooming. 
I grow in a GH so have not house experience, but a small pc fan that keeps the air moving Is certainly a 'very good friend'.
For me dianthum Is not an easier one just has more vigor and tolerates higher light levels. Have one in the south- west corner of the GH that has enjoyed all summer long almost full afternoon sun that bloomed with 7 spikes!!
Wish you a good growing!


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## jokerpass (Dec 3, 2021)

LO69 said:


> I can only second the correct info given by other members. Small pot, a draining compost,
> 12/15*C night temp. with higher day temp.(20/22*C).In my pots I used to place polistirene chips for extra drainage.
> Regarding light requirement I notice that when given same cattleya light the leaves are more yellow but you get good blooming.
> I grow in a GH so have not house experience, but a small pc fan that keeps the air moving Is certainly a 'very good friend'.
> ...


thank you, much is appreciated. Thank you for the confirmation about the pointers....yes, everyone I speak to and also here all said small pots (like a dendrobium). 
thanks


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## BrucherT (Dec 3, 2021)

Sam Tsui grows stunning parishii. His “Jeanie” in bloom is a sight to behold. 7 flowers. I missed a chance to get a seedling .

I’m curious about two things: 1) it’s listed in this book as epiphytic; am I misremembering a photo of a nice flowering group growing out of a mound of some kind of limestone karst stuff? And 2) the small pot thing…I didn’t see any smallness to Sam’s pots; maybe he was accomplishing drying with climate control?


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## jokerpass (Dec 3, 2021)

BrucherT said:


> Sam Tsui grows stunning parishii. His “Jeanie” in bloom is a sight to behold. 7 flowers. I missed a chance to get a seedling .
> 
> I’m curious about two things: 1) it’s listed in this book as epiphytic; am I misremembering a photo of a nice flowering group growing out of a mound of some kind of limestone karst stuff? And 2) the small pot thing…I didn’t see any smallness to Sam’s pots; maybe he was accomplishing drying with climate control?


I am reading the Paph book by Braem, Baker & Baker and here it is: It grows in the Shan Plateau Region of Burma and the mountains of neighboring western and noterhn Thailand at 4100-4500 ft (1250-1370m). It is usually found on east-facking slopes where conditions are shady and light islow. It normally grows as an epiphyte in the middle or lower branches of trees, 10-15 ft above the ground, but plants are sometimes found growing in thick moss on boulders or fern roots.

I would never buy stuff from Sam. I never had any good experience with him. I was told by our orchid inner circles here that he only provides good plants for his friends or someone he knows very well. Even some orchid vendors complained about his plants for an order more than 100 plants (very little to no roots). He brought a large Paph parishii a few years ago to Canada for me as a pre-order, and it had pretty much not roots. The plant was NBS but the leaves were soft (not hard), so I suspected that the plant had no good roots. When I unpotted the pot, on a such big plant, there were only 3 roots (2 good size roots with 1 very short size roots). I rejected the plant and didn't buy it. I care about the quality, not the price. As you know, I grow Cym. goeringii so I am very particular, detailed orientated, and picky on plants and their quality, price is not a factor for me.


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## Paphman910 (Dec 3, 2021)

jokerpass said:


> I am reading the Paph book by Braem, Baker & Baker and here it is: It grows in the Shan Plateau Region of Burma and the mountains of neighboring western and noterhn Thailand at 4100-4500 ft (1250-1370m). It is usually found on east-facking slopes where conditions are shady and light islow. It normally grows as an epiphyte in the middle or lower branches of trees, 10-15 ft above the ground, but plants are sometimes found growing in thick moss on boulders or fern roots.
> 
> I would never buy stuff from Sam. I never had any good experience with him. I was told by our orchid inner circles here that he only provides good plants for his friends or someone he knows very well. Even some orchid vendors complained about his plants for an order more than 100 plants (very little to no roots). He brought a large Paph parishii a few years ago to Canada for me as a pre-order, and it had pretty much not roots. The plant was NBS but the leaves were soft (not hard), so I suspected that the plant had no good roots. When I unpotted the pot, on a such big plant, there were only 3 roots (2 good size roots with 1 very short size roots). I rejected the plant and didn't buy it. I care about the quality, not the price. As you know, I grow Cym. goeringii so I am very particular, detailed orientated, and picky on plants and their quality, price is not a factor for me.



Did you ask Sam why they had little to no roots?

Sam did mention many years ago that he had trouble growing his plants in Orchidata.


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## jokerpass (Dec 3, 2021)

When I pointed it out, he insisted that the plant was fine. Does he think that I am stupid or what? This is not my first orchid.

I do not care if Sam had problems with his growing conditions, as a customer, all I care about is if the plant is healthy or not (roots or no roots). But when a customer unpotted the plant and pointed out the conditions of the plant, he insisted that the plant was fine (to me, that was lying in a plain sight)....this is not first orchid and not first experience. Since he could not bring the plant back into the US, he gave the plant to a collector I know in Toronto for free. The collector told me that the Paph parishii that Sam offered me was in a rough condition. On the otherhand, all the Paph parishii that this collector received from Sam were in good to very good conditions (little bit smaller than the one Sam offered me in terms of the leaf span). The plant that Sam offered me was the biggest and according Sam, the biggest plant was the best....I do not know what is his logic and if he has any conscience in selling orchids to potential customers who is aware of the quality of the plants (root health). 

In this instance, if I am a good salesman, I would have said that I don't have any Paph parishii that is in good condition and I do not feel comfortable selling the plant, I would be absolutely fine with that, there is always next time, and if he said this, I would have waited and get it from him when he has good enough plants. Basic sales. I have the patience to wait for the plant, if I cannot get it today, there is always tomorrow.


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## BrucherT (Dec 4, 2021)

I am in shock from reading these messages. I don’t know what to say. I believe you had your experience and that’s awful. This is the very first time I’ve ever heard a negative word about Sam or his plants. I’ve never had any negative issues with him or his plants; each time I’ve ordered, plants arrive perfect, healthy and worth every penny. Again, not trying to say you didn’t have a problem and I’m sorry to hear it. But I’ve also visited Orchid Inn and found it immaculate. I have walked every aisle and I don’t think I’ve ever even seen a plant in rough condition. Everything seems pristine to me. I’ve watched him repot plants himself and marvel at the deft skill. Often, when I pick something out, he wants to dump it and repot for me, so I’m seeing the roots. I have never asked him to do this, he just does it. Again, my experience. I would like to call him my friend but I don’t know what he would say… I feel treated very well by him and I’m always humbled because I’m such a small-potatoes customer compared to how he makes his real money. Point being, if I’m receiving preferential treatment, I don’t know why he would favor me. We’ve probably had ten transactions over the years. Every plant I get from him is a winner in my eyes. With regard to his P. parishii, he had quite a selection of them about two years ago and I just decided to buy something else then. But I remember they looked delicious. That’s all I know, that’s my experience. I hope someday he gets a chance to redeem himself in your eyes, somehow.


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 9, 2021)

I have been reading this post for a couple days now and thought I should add some comments since I am mentioned several times here.

My success in parishii is indeed the cultural notes that JP has outlined:
1. warm in summer (up to 32C days) and cool in winter (13-15C nights)
2. heavy watering and feeding in summer and less water/feeding in winter (let dry in winter before watering)
3. smaller that normal pots (24 inched plants in 4 inch pots)
4. larger bark with medium perlite and large charcoal (for perfect drainage) mix
5. medium light (1500-1800 FC)

Many of my parishiis are from Sam (OI) and they have grown well for me. I should note that Sam has always supplied me with really good plants (maybe because I buy much from him) and rarely lose any. I have not really seen preferential treatment between me and another friend out west who buys much less than me.

I have some parishiis from Hung Sheng that grows ok but their flowers so far have not been as dark or as large as OI. Perhaps when they get larger, their potential may show.


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## BrucherT (Dec 9, 2021)

DrLeslieEe said:


> I have been reading this post for a couple days now and thought I should add some comments since I am mentioned several times here.
> 
> My success in parishii is indeed the cultural notes that JP has outlined:
> 1. warm in summer (up to 32C days) and cool in winter (13-15C nights)
> ...


What is your high flower count on parishii?


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## Paphman910 (Dec 9, 2021)

Just ask Sam to ship the plants without media and tell him that the plants needs to have good root system.


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 10, 2021)

BrucherT said:


> What is your high flower count on parishii?


From 5 to 7 flowers, never reaching the 12 that Sam gets though


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## Happypaphy7 (Dec 10, 2021)

I just wanted to say what you have said about Sam is completely untrue.
Any vendor can send you "bad" plants. The main concern for me is the customer service. Unlike some people who deny and lie or become outright rude, Sam will send you replacements.
I know this because a member of my society bought a few paphs from him not too long ago. A couple of his plants were in poor conditions and he informed Sam about it. He sent him replacement plants without any hesitation.
I bought a few of my first order from him last December. All great stuff mostly larger than what's indicated on his website. A couple were in bud even!
I recently bought some more plants and a flask. All are of superb quality in my opinion and I'm rather picky.

I realize that disputing and getting replacement plants may be near impossible for you since you are on the other side of the border, but I advise you to not follow rumors and gossips without solid proof.
Let him know what happened and maybe on his next trip to Canada, he might bring some sort of replacement if he has any left.
Also, just like many other vendors, he will have things that are not listed on his website.


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## Happypaphy7 (Dec 10, 2021)

Now back to parishii, I always shied away from this species based on what I read about its habitat info. 
They tend to occur rather high elevation and, in the area, where it gets warms during the day but cools off significantly at night, especially during the winter months. I grow everything indoors so this will be extra challenging if not impossible to provide without some sort of special enclosure system. 
Now, I do have a nice primary hybrid of parishii x lowii. It has been an easy one for me and the flowers look very similar to parishii. 
My only complaint is that the plant is too big. It is currently my largest plant in leaf length only threatened by a roth hybrid that is on its way to become even bigger very soon! 
Good luck in finding & growing your plants.


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## jokerpass (Dec 10, 2021)

Happypaphy7 said:


> I just wanted to say what you have said about Sam is completely untrue.
> Any vendor can send you "bad" plants. The main concern for me is the customer service. Unlike some people who deny and lie or become outright rude, Sam will send you replacements.
> I know this because a member of my society bought a few paphs from him not too long ago. A couple of his plants were in poor conditions and he informed Sam about it. He sent him replacement plants without any hesitation.
> I bought a few of my first order from him last December. All great stuff mostly larger than what's indicated on his website. A couple were in bud even!
> ...



He told me that that was the last Paph parishii he had. Which I doubted that was the case. Usually, I am argumentative but because I didn't have a high expectation from Sam (from my past experience and other Canadian inner orchid circle friends and Canadian vendor experiences), I just insisted that I don't take the plant, so that was it. Every time when I purchase Japanese orchids (C. goeringii), I spent thousands of dollars. A $100-$150 Paph parishii is nothing to me (money wise). However, if the plant is in a bad health, even $1 is too expensive. This is how I look at this.


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## Happypaphy7 (Dec 10, 2021)

Well, sorry to hear about your experience, then. 
And I agree with your sentiment that a plant in bad health is not worth buying. 
I prefer to buy plants after seeing them myself for this reason. I have no one else to blame this way and I usually pick out the good ones.
I avoid mail ordering plants as much as possible, but it does happen every now and then, and fortunately, my experience has been mostly good.


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## Paphman910 (Dec 10, 2021)

Happypaphy7 said:


> Now back to parishii, I always shied away from this species based on what I read about its habitat info.
> They tend to occur rather high elevation and, in the area, where it gets warms during the day but cools off significantly at night, especially during the winter months. I grow everything indoors so this will be extra challenging if not impossible to provide without some sort of special enclosure system.
> Now, I do have a nice primary hybrid of parishii x lowii. It has been an easy one for me and the flowers look very similar to parishii.
> My only complaint is that the plant is too big. It is currently my largest plant in leaf length only threatened by a roth hybrid that is on its way to become even bigger very soon!
> Good luck in finding & growing your plants.



Me too as well since I grow indoor as well! 

I had one many years ago and it had long, thick stiff leaves and very little roots. I gave it to my friend who grew it in his greenhouse and after a few years later he bloomed it with 9 flowers. 

I do agree that hybrids are alot easier to grow! I found that parishii and randsii doesn't produce alot of roots.


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## jokerpass (Dec 10, 2021)

Paphman910 said:


> Me too as well since I grow indoor as well!
> 
> I had one many years ago and it had long, thick stiff leaves and very little roots. I gave it to my friend who grew it in his greenhouse and after a few years later he bloomed it with 9 flowers.
> 
> I do agree that hybrids are alot easier to grow! I found that parishii and randsii doesn't produce alot of roots.



And if you overwater it


Paphman910 said:


> Me too as well since I grow indoor as well!
> 
> I had one many years ago and it had long, thick stiff leaves and very little roots. I gave it to my friend who grew it in his greenhouse and after a few years later he bloomed it with 9 flowers.
> 
> I do agree that hybrids are alot easier to grow! I found that parishii and randsii doesn't produce alot of roots.


 
And if you overwater it, it will die very easily (because it has so little root to begin with).


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## Paphman910 (Dec 10, 2021)

jokerpass said:


> ...
> And if you overwater it, it will die very easily (because it has so little root to begin with).



Not true and it depends on your conditions! 

One of our local member had lots of plants in his greenhouse and they would have very little roots. Even some of our local members complained about it. So I decided to examine his watering practises. He use a sprayer to just enough water so there is barely any water dripping from the drainage holes. He does the same with fertilizer water as well. He has been doing that for years and has great looking Paphiopedilums! Growths are big and looks healthy but when you unpot it ..... only 2 to 3 roots. His greenhouse has high humidity and lots of air movement.


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## Happypaphy7 (Dec 10, 2021)

Paphman910 said:


> Me too as well since I grow indoor as well!
> 
> I had one many years ago and it had long, thick stiff leaves and very little roots. I gave it to my friend who grew it in his greenhouse and after a few years later he bloomed it with 9 flowers.
> 
> I do agree that hybrids are alot easier to grow! I found that parishii and randsii doesn't produce alot of roots.



But the few roots part you mention is most likely not the representative of the species because this species is mostly found rather high up (well above the ground level) on trees. You'd think such an epiphytic plant would produce lots of roots to secure itself on the tree surface. 
My lowii, a species also found as an epiphyte (although not exclusively as one), grows lots of roots. But then, I find multi-floral paphs are in general the root champions.


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## LO69 (Dec 11, 2021)

Happypaphy7 said:


> But the few roots part you mention is most likely not the representative of the species because this species is mostly found rather high up (well above the ground level) on trees. You'd think such an epiphytic plant would produce lots of roots to secure itself on the tree surface.
> My lowii, a species also found as an epiphyte (although not exclusively as one), grows lots of roots. But then, I find multi-floral paphs are in general the root champions.


Good observations!
I just think the more you water a plant the less developped its root system is. 
But my experience Is limited to organic medium I know nothing about S/I or other cultural methods.


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## Happypaphy7 (Dec 11, 2021)

LO69 said:


> Good observations!
> I just think the more you water a plant the less developped its root system is.
> But my experience Is limited to organic medium I know nothing about S/I or other cultural methods.



It might seem logical but true, at least not for orchids in my opinion.
I have seen these comparison photos where plants that grow their roots in the soil are grown in two different conditions. One with frequent watering and one on the slightly drier side. The one grown with more frequent watering indeed had much less developed root system.
Here is the problem. I'm not sure if the less developed root system is due to ample water available at all time and thus the plant decides to spend less energy invested on growing a larger root system, or is it because lack of available air that harm the proper root growth?
I raise this question because I have seen how the Dutch farmers grow plants (conventional soil crops like tomatoes and lots of other garden crops). All the roots are in water but massive root system!! They do pump lots of oxygen in the water for the plants and I wonder that is why?
The larger the root system (even under ample water availability), the more water and nutrient a plant can uptake and use towards growing bigger. So, this seems like a logical thing at first, but the more think about it, the more problem there is with this line of reasoning.

By the way, the Dutch still grow their orhids like Phalaenopsis in bark mix. I don't think that's necessarily because they can't grow them in water, but they have to sell them as potted flowering plant. It's much easier to transport and such.
The ones grown in water are usually edibles like berries and leafy vegetables and flowers harvested for cut flower trade where they don't have to transport the entire plant.


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## LO69 (Dec 11, 2021)

Happypaphy7 said:


> It might seem logical but true, at least not for orchids in my opinion.
> I have seen these comparison photos where plants that grow their roots in the soil are grown in two different conditions. One with frequent watering and one on the slightly drier side. The one grown with more frequent watering indeed had much less developed root system.
> Here is the problem. I'm not sure if the less developed root system is due to ample water available at all time and thus the plant decides to spend less energy invested on growing a larger root system, or is it because lack of available air that harm the proper root growth?
> I raise this question because I have seen how the Dutch farmers grow plants (conventional soil crops like tomatoes and lots of other garden crops). All the roots are in water but massive root system!! They do pump lots of oxygen in the water for the plants and I wonder that is why?
> ...


Well if I try to think like an orchid I guess that when ample supply of water and nutrients are close to me why should I spend energy to grow an abundant and extensive root system? The opposite Is also true, if the medium Is on the dry side I must go in search for water and I need to extend and go deeper in search for umidity and nutrients. 
A costantly wet medium has also less oxigen at the bottom layer so the roots probably want to stay in the upper part of the pot. 
When we repot our orchids don't we keep them quite dry for 15/20 days to stimulate new roots production?

A good thing for those who like to water a lot Is to oxigenate the water with a small pump and an airstone ( Aquarium type). Roots love oxigen!!! Rain Is full of O2
I experienced both ways but I definitely prefer to keep them on the dry side!


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## BrucherT (Dec 11, 2021)

LO69 said:


> Well if I try to think like an orchid I guess that when ample supply of water and nutrients are close to me why should I spend energy to grow an abundant and extensive root system? The opposite Is also true, if the medium Is on the dry side I must go in search for water and I need to extend and go deeper in search for umidity and nutrients.
> A costantly wet medium has also less oxigen at the bottom layer so the roots probably want to stay in the upper part of the pot.
> When we repot our orchids don't we keep them quite dry for 15/20 days to stimulate new roots production?
> 
> ...


I think we keep them dry so as to minimize impact of root injury?

curious about the air pump. How would one accomplish this? I mix my RO/K-Lite water in gallon jugs; if I stick an aerating tube in, doesn’t the oxygen just bubble right now instantly? Is there a practical method? Thanks.


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## LO69 (Dec 11, 2021)

BrucherT said:


> I think we keep them dry so as to minimize impact of root injury?
> 
> curious about the air pump. How would one accomplish this? I mix my RO/K-Lite water in gallon jugs; if I stick an aerating tube in, doesn’t the oxygen just bubble right now instantly? Is there a practical method? Thanks.


I had seen this method at a paph nursery in Germany. The owner was a skilled grower. He built a 1 Meter cube concrete(1000 lt./250 gal) tank into his GH and just dip the air stone inside the tank keeping It constantly bubble into the water. He also warmed the water up with an Aquarium heater. In Winter time It Is not good to apply cold water.

You can find a container just bigger than a gal with only water and put your air stone inside. If you don't want to let It on 24/7 Just connect a timer that switch the pump on several hours before watering Is needed. It takes some time to oxigenate well the water. Take this O2 water and make your fertilizer solution.


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