# How fast do your paphs grow?



## Paphologist (Jun 23, 2008)

Hi,

Probably a newbie question that reveals my impatience with how slow my paphs seem to be moving but how fast do reasonably well grown paphs grow? in a measurable way, like leaves, inches or flowering growths per month or year, for example.

I understand that the particular genetics of the plant, plant maturity, season, etc can all be variables but does anyone know if anyone has done any scientific experiments on this and measured it? at least for one species or clone perhaps?

Or is there a different general way to assess how well I am growing my paphs? (ie, speed not necessarily being the thing) If this is an experience thing then please someone let me know so I don't keep doing my head in watching my plants to see if they are growing and can relax a bit and just learn over time.

Regards


Simon


----------



## SlipperKing (Jun 23, 2008)

You NEWBIE! You're growing impatience trying to learn patiences. You're going at it all wrong. You grow orchids/ Slippers to get away from the hectic real world and all of it's problems. Relax! Read, read, read. Go to the cultural section of this forum and take notes. Pick up Slipper books, join local orchid societies. You need to listen to your plants and they will tell you what they like. This will take a life time to hear their voices. Now enjoy.


----------



## Rick (Jun 23, 2008)

Going through all the threads on this site is a good way to learn stuff. Pick a species and try the search functions.

One thing you should pick up fast is that there is no one or best way to grow orchids ("except the way I do it"). People have success with lots of different strategies, and the resources they have to put into their programs.

Also it's hard to put generalizations on a group of plants with 30,000 species and 5 times that many registered hybrids. Working only with slippers (all genera) knocks the number down to about 200 species + the hybrids, but there is still a good variation of culture nuances to consider.

Since most orchid growers are in it for the flowers a common measure of growth rate is "years from flask to first bloom". Yes we measure in years!! But success can be measured in lots of ways such as longevity of an individual plant (once again measured in years).

When I got started in orchids with a handful of plants there were long gaps between flowering events. I found that when you have a diverse collection with about 100 mature plants, you will have something in bloom almost all the time, and you will have less to be impatient about.


----------



## NYEric (Jun 23, 2008)

I agree, it takes about 100 plants to have something in bloom year round. I have a Paph bellatulum that put out a new growth, spikes, then blasts every year, so if you want a fast growing paph bellatulum and its' hybrids would be recommended. Phrags grow quicker, Yay besseae hybrids!


----------



## Roy (Jun 23, 2008)

NYEric said:


> I agree, it takes about 100 plants to have something in bloom year round. I have a Paph bellatulum that put out a new growth, spikes, then blasts every year, so if you want a fast growing paph bellatulum and its' hybrids would be recommended. Phrags grow quicker, Yay besseae hybrids!



Eric has every second vacant NY Apartment under besseae hybrid cultivation and does produce some nice orchids. As Rick suggested, Paph growing is for the long term until your plants are established and used to YOUR conditions and culture. Even if you start with mature plants the same rules apply. 
Some Paphs will grow faster to flower than others, like Maudiae type Paphs against multi floral Paphs. If you have the conditions right like Shade / Light, temperature, humidity, compost, watering / feeding and air movement whether growing indoors under lights or outside in a greenhouse, the environment has to be correct to have better chance of early success. Probably Paph insigne is the exception coz it seems to grow for the most non orchid growing people.


----------



## Ernie (Jun 23, 2008)

How do you know if you're growing well??? Good roots! Speed should be of little concern unless they're going backwards or nowhere. If you want fast, grow Phals or water lilies.  As you say, each species, hybird, or even clone can be different. Strive for improvement over perfection- it's a hobby, enjoy it! 

-Ernie


----------



## Paphologist (Jun 24, 2008)

Thanks everyone for the good advice. A couple of thoughts:

1. I feel a little bit more relaxed/patient about this now - only a little bit (I am a first born so I can't help the perfectionism bit)

2. I was happy with myself about how my insigne was going up til now - now I'm not so pleased with myself - (see point 1 above).

3. Is it going backwards if a leaf is smaller than the previous one when the next one starts? (I remember reading this somewhere)

4. I am delighted that I have another reason to buy lots more orchids (thanks NYEric and Rick).

5. Hybrid phrags sound like an excellent idea (plus another 80 or so paphs).

thanks again


Simon


----------



## Rick (Jun 24, 2008)

With regards to number 3:

Buy a hygrometer and check the humidity levels around your orchids. I shoot for 70 to 80%, but some folks do fine at levels in the 50-60% range.

Depending on the species, most of my early "incredible shrinking plants" were due to excessively warm and dry air. Warm and humid air is generally not a problem for most paph species.

And some species (usually the barbata group) will shrink if light is too bright.

So you need to define what type of plant you are talking about.

It's kind of like buying parts for your car. You need to start out with the make year and model before asking for parts.

I would also look for Lance Birk's book on Paph Culture, and check out the chapter on air quality.


----------



## NYEric (Jun 24, 2008)

Paphologist said:


> 4. I am delighted that I have another reason to buy lots more orchids (thanks NYEric and Rick).
> 
> Simon


There's no such thing as too many orchids! :evil:


----------



## Leo Schordje (Jun 24, 2008)

The latest talk I am giving on the orchid society lecture circuit is: How to Build an Ever Blooming Orchid Collection. If you start with mature plants you can do it with 12 orchids. A collection of 18 or so can be put together and easily have at least one plant in bloom at all times. 

1.) first buy a plant or two in bud or bloom, they will give you something to look at while waiting for seedlings to mature. Don't buy too many blooming plants at once. Wait until the first is done blooming, then buy the second. Since most will tend to settle into a pattern of re-blooming at the same time of the year, if you buy one each month in bud or bloom, you will have the year covered once you do the full cycle. Now growers generally sell first bloom seedlings, so it may take a few years for these seedlings to settle into an annual cycle, but it will happen. 

2.) give seedlings time to mature, most Paphs need at least 3 growths in the pot to settle into a regular bloom cycle. Generally this means the plant is 5 or more years old. 

3.) by repeat bloomers - complex hybrids with enough species in them that there is no seasonality to when they initiate blooms. Most of the Maudiae type hybrids fit this group. When species that normally bloom in oposite seasons are crossed, the offspring tend to bloom anytime they have the energy to do so. 

4.) buy species or hybrids with long lived multifloral flowering stems. Cochlopetalum Paphs like chamberlainianum, liemianum, glaucophyllum, kalinae, primulinum, moquettianum and victoria-mariae come to mind (victoria-regina is an invalid name, use the name chamberlainianum instead, see Braem's article) 

In Phrags, any hybrid with longifolium, lindleyanum, sargentianum, and or besseae in it has the potential to produce a large number of flowers over a long period of time. I have had a longifolium give me 25 flowers on one stem before it quit. 

For more detailed suggestions, have your local orchid society invite me out to give the whole talk. 

Leo


----------



## NYEric (Jun 24, 2008)

Leo Schordje said:


> The latest talk I am giving on the orchid society lecture circuit is: How to Build an Ever Blooming Orchid Collection. If you start with mature plants you can do it with 12 orchids. A collection of 18 or so can be put together and easily have at least one plant in bloom at all times.
> 
> Leo



Doesn't sound like as much fun as buying more plants! :drool:


----------



## Rick (Jun 24, 2008)

NYEric said:


> Doesn't sound like as much fun as buying more plants! :drool:



Leo's presentation is definitely true. Technically you can have an ever blooming collection of 1 moquettianum or primulinum var purpurescens. But I think that would generate as much boredom after a month or two as not having any blooms for a few months.

The cochlopetalums definitlly fill in the gaps for the other groups, and longifolium based phrags really go almost continually too.

But who can stop at 18 plants:evil:


----------



## SlipperFan (Jun 24, 2008)

Rick said:


> But who can stop at 18 plants:evil:



It's just a clever ruse to get someone else to become an orchid addict.


----------



## Gilda (Jun 24, 2008)

NYEric said:


> Doesn't sound like as much fun as buying more plants! :drool:



:rollhappy::rollhappy: I agree Eric !


----------



## NYEric (Jun 26, 2008)

Next time anyone goes to an orchid show, just tell yourself that the orchids get sad if they don't get new friends!


----------

