# Paph Susan Booth 'Paracombe' FCC/AOC



## emydura (Dec 26, 2020)

I have shown this clone a few times but worth seeing again, especially when it has two spikes.

I normally flower my multi-florals from September through to November. But something triggered them to flower now as I have a whole heap flowering at the exact same time. 


Paph Susan Booth 'Paracombe' FCC/AOC


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 26, 2020)

Spectacular!!


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## Guldal (Dec 26, 2020)

Stunning, stupefying, splendiferous beauty! The parents for this cross must have been really 1st class +++, judging from those impressive dorsal sepals and synsepals...and such great colours!


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## Ozpaph (Dec 26, 2020)

Man oh Man is that good.
and a superb photo.
Whats the size like compared to when awarded?


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## Ozpaph (Dec 26, 2020)

What were the parents, David?
I have praestans in flower but my multis finished months ago: weird climate.


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## emydura (Dec 26, 2020)

Ozpaph said:


> What were the parents, David?
> I have praestans in flower but my multis finished months ago: weird climate.



It is a relatively old cross. All I know is that it came out of a flask from Gallop & Stribling of the USA. Those in the US might know of this nursery. I assume they closed many years ago. I have never heard of them. 



Ozpaph said:


> Whats the size like compared to when awarded?



As big if not bigger. If I measure the biggest flower, the dorsal and petals are a little bit bigger than the awarded measurements. But it is my understanding that they don't measure the largest flower for awards.

I think this is the best the plant has flowered. When it got an FCC, it also had two spikes. But the flowers on one of the spikes were quite small. The flowers are big on both these spikes.


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## emydura (Dec 27, 2020)

Guldal said:


> Stunning, stupefying, splendiferous beauty! The parents for this cross must have been really 1st class +++, judging from those impressive dorsal sepals and synsepals...and such great colours!



Thanks Jens. Yes, the sepals are this clones best feature. Bigger than a lot of roths I have flowered. I have a sibling of this clone ('Highercombe') that got an AM award. It has darker flowers and a taller spike with better spacing, butt the sepals are not as big.


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## Ozpaph (Dec 27, 2020)

Yous should enquire if they will re-judge it.

Gallup and Stribling were huge commercial cymbid growers. I think in California. I think they focused on cut flowers. Maybe our US friends can help here?


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 27, 2020)

In awards, they always pick the largest flower to measure. Only that one flower's parts are measured, and not different parts of different flowers.

The award picture may not focus on the largest flower, rather the most photogenic or best angle of the inflorescence.


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## emydura (Dec 27, 2020)

DrLeslieEe said:


> In awards, they always pick the largest flower to measure. Only that one flower's parts are measured, and not different parts of different flowers.
> 
> The award picture may not focus on the largest flower, rather the most photogenic or best angle of the inflorescence.



Thanks. That is what I thought. It certainly makes sense. But the measurements of a lot of my awarded multi-floral Paphs are significantly under what I measured for the largest flower. So much so, that when you read the measurements, you wonder how they were ever awarded.


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 27, 2020)

Two things can explain that:

1. The largest flower was not selected properly for measurements. Sometimes a student judge is tasked to measure, and sometimes mistakenly selects the prettiest rather than the largest flower to measure. You can always subtlely indicate the largest flower during that time (since you've most likely have measured at home).

2. Certain measurements are made while flattening floral parts while others are measured as they hang naturally. This may show the discrepancies on your measurements with the judging center.

In any case, if there is a big difference in their measurements against yours (more than 0.5 cm), its best to ask for clarification when you get the certificate award, before you leave the judging center. That way the head of the judging team of your plant can verify their measurements against yours, and make any necessary changes to the award before its submitted to HQ.


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## Ozpaph (Dec 27, 2020)

that experience has been repeated up here


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## emydura (Dec 27, 2020)

DrLeslieEe said:


> Two things can explain that:
> 
> 1. The largest flower was not selected properly for measurements. Sometimes a student judge is tasked to measure, and sometimes mistakenly selects the prettiest rather than the largest flower to measure. You can always subtlely indicate the largest flower during that time (since you've most likely have measured at home).
> 
> ...



Thanks for the explanation. I only ever see the measurements well after the event by which time it is too late. I may need to be more proactive.

I was looking at this roth I had awarded (award dispay ). They have the dorsal width as 43 mm, which is clearly wrong. Then I looked at the ventral sepal width and it has 55mm which is much closer to what I think the dorsal width is. I think they have got them the wrong way around. I remember for this one they spelt rothschildianum wrong so you could never find this award. It took me months to get that fixed. Human error plays a part.

Out of interest, how is the dorsal width measured? The dorsal can often be cupped in slipper orchids. Is it flattened when measured?


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 27, 2020)

emydura said:


> Thanks for the explanation. I only ever see the measurements well after the event by which time it is too late. I may need to be more proactive.
> 
> I was looking at this roth I had awarded (award dispay ). They have the dorsal width as 43 mm, which is clearly wrong. Then I looked at the ventral sepal width and it has 55mm which is much closer to what I think the dorsal width is. I think they have got them the wrong way around. I remember for this one they spelt rothschildianum wrong so you could never find this award. It took me months to get that fixed. Human error plays a part.
> 
> Out of interest, how is the dorsal width measured? The dorsal can often be cupped in slipper orchids. Is it flattened when measured?


Good to be proactive after the judging so mistakes are caught early. To err is human!

The dorsal sepal, synsepal and petals are flattened to measure.


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## emydura (Dec 27, 2020)

DrLeslieEe said:


> Good to be proactive after the judging so mistakes are caught early. To err is human!
> 
> The dorsal sepal, synsepal and petals are flattened to measure.



Thanks. That is interesting. I just spoke to an experienced judge who said in Australia we just measure a straight line from edge to edge (without flattening). This makes a huge difference. In the roth I just posted, the approach used in the US would add one cm to the width of the dorsal compared to how it is measured here.


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 27, 2020)

emydura said:


> Thanks. That is interesting. I just spoke to an experienced judge who said in Australia we just measure a straight line from edge to edge (without flattening). This makes a huge difference. In the roth I just posted, the approach used in the US would add one cm to the width of the dorsal compared to how it is measured here.


Hmm this difference can make or break an FCC here lol.


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## Guldal (Dec 28, 2020)

DrLeslieEe said:


> Two things can explain that:
> 
> 1. The largest flower was not selected properly for measurements. Sometimes a student judge is tasked to measure, and sometimes mistakenly selects the prettiest rather than the largest flower to measure. You can always subtlely indicate the largest flower during that time (since you've most likely have measured at home).
> 
> 2. Certain measurements are made while flattening floral parts while others are measured as they hang naturally. This may show the discrepancies on your measurements with the judging center.



Ad 1. Although the scoring of points of the judging system is different in Europe and the names of the awards, too, I think the general rules for judging should be the same? Concerning measurements of size, at least, this is also here based on the largest flower - or ought to be, when done right.

Ad 2. NS is here measured, as the floral parts hang naturally - from the measurements of petal lengths, you get the impression of the total size, when flattened. Besides this, I'm not quite sure, which floral parts will be measured flattened.
Next time I see my friend and mentor in all things orchidiadic, Hans Christiansen (who for many years was head of the danish judges - and in his 50+ years as independent nursery owner have participated in a wealth of shows, also internationally, both as participant and as judge), I wii ask, how the rules regarding measurements are applied in Europe?


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## emydura (Dec 28, 2020)

DrLeslieEe said:


> Hmm this difference can make or break an FCC here lol.



Absolutely. There has only been one rothschildianum awarded an FCC in Australia and that was way back in 1993. An important criteria for getting an FCC for a roth is the width of the dorsal. I know the judges here will look at the measurements of roths that have previously received an FCC award, most of which will be in the US. Given you are measuring this different, it will make it very difficult to get an FCC in this country. Our flowers will always look small in comparison. There needs to be consistency.


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 28, 2020)

emydura said:


> Absolutely. There has only been one rothschildianum awarded an FCC in Australia and that was way back in 1993. An important criteria for getting an FCC for a roth is the width of the dorsal. I know the judges here will look at the measurements of roths that have previously received an FCC award, most of which will be in the US. Given you are measuring this different, it will make it very difficult to get an FCC in this country. Our flowers will always look small in comparison. There needs to be consistency.


Please confirm with your judging center on this measurement discrepancies?


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## Happypaphy7 (Dec 28, 2020)

What a sight!! You can post it every time it flowers!


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## Justin (Dec 29, 2020)

Some of the AMs and even HCCs are a little surprising to me given the high bar of roths these days.

List awards rothschildianum&type=1&Pag=0

I will say the roth Q'lander is spectacular and definitely FCC material if you ask me. If I recall it is 'Borneo' x self. My Borneo clone is in bud right now. (First time I will bloom this particular division I picked up just a couple years ago, as my first division died.) If it turns out to be true to label maybe I will buck the current trend and self it. 

(Edit I can't get the link to work but David's original link above has an option to see the list of all awards for the species.)


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## emydura (Dec 29, 2020)

Justin said:


> Some of the AMs and even HCCs are a little surprising to me given the high bar of roths these days.
> 
> List awards rothschildianum&type=1&Pag=0
> 
> ...



I don't disagree with you Justin. A lot of those roth clones are not anything special. We are a bit behind here I think. Growers are now starting to flower roths from better breeding, so I expect we will start to see higher quality roths awarded in future.


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## Ozpaph (Dec 30, 2020)

fingers crossed!


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## Justin (Dec 30, 2020)

emydura said:


> I don't disagree with you Justin. A lot of those roth clones are not anything special. We are a bit behind here I think. Growers are now starting to flower roths from better breeding, so I expect we will start to see higher quality roths awarded in future.



Yeah not intending to throw any shade . And nothing takes away from any award. 

It has been cool to see some of the stellar plants you are growing and your advancement over all these years. I wish I had your skills!


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## Dawn (Dec 30, 2020)

Beautiful!


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## My Green Pets (Dec 30, 2020)

Hear hear. Every flowering is worth a post.


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## Ozpaph (Dec 30, 2020)

I wish Sam'/Dave would remake SB with top shelf, modern parents............sigh................


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 31, 2020)

Ozpaph said:


> I wish Sam'/Dave would remake SB with top shelf, modern parents............sigh................


I'm sure that can be arranged. Ask them!


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