# Question on VIRUSES.... Bob, this is all you, man!



## bwester (Apr 5, 2007)

Why is it they cant make a vaccine against orchid viruses??? Or simply kill the virus once a plant is infected. I mean, they cured Magic Johnson, why not a Magic Lantern????


----------



## kentuckiense (Apr 5, 2007)

bwester said:


> they cured Magic Johnson


They didn't.

Additionally, (correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. W) only vertebrates have the adaptive immune systems in which vaccines would work.


----------



## bwester (Apr 5, 2007)

yeah they did, he had full blown aids and now its just HIV....


----------



## kentuckiense (Apr 5, 2007)

bwester said:


> yeah they did, he had full blown aids and now its just HIV....


HIV is the virus, AIDS is the autoimmune syndrome caused by the virus. He still caries the virus. I don't know if he even progressed to the AIDS stage yet.


----------



## bwester (Apr 5, 2007)

I know that. Still, i bet you he's cured. I'm not going to delve into my pharmaceutical conspiracy theories that I developed in my eight years of working in a pharmacy, but hes done things no one else that has had HIV as long as he has because they are all dead. He has money and isnt.... not that hard to figure out. Back to plants......


----------



## paphioland (Apr 5, 2007)

This requires a very long explanation. I will try and keep it brief. Anything is theoretically possible. Look at genetic engineering, makes sense but has not cured one disease yet. Not to say that it never will. The simple answer is money. Why would a company invest millions to billions of dollars to cure orchid viruses.
The long answer is even in humans viruses are very difficult to cure. Can you think of one that can be? It is easier to immunize against them so you don't get infected in the first place. The other treatments are immune modulators such as aldara and drugs that attack the machinary of the virus such as protease inhibitors, reverse transcriptase inhibitors..... etc, ohh and maybe produced antibodies against a protein the virus produces or needs. Anyways, viruses are usually intracellular unlike bacteria, although bacteria can be intracellular too. They usually depend on the host cells machinery to replicate themselves. Then they destroy the cell and move on to the next. This is all a generalization of course but trying to keep it simple. It is very difficult to make a drug that is specific against a virus and non toxic to human cells. It is also difficult to get the drug into the cell and/or nucleus. The best shot at curing viruses are either immune modulators or genetic engineering in my opinion. In orchids how do you cheaply administer a systemic tx anyway. I don't know much about plant medicine. LOL. Hope this helps. Maybe others can give you better answers.


----------



## paphioland (Apr 5, 2007)

kentuckiense said:


> HIV is the virus, AIDS is the autoimmune syndrome caused by the virus. He still caries the virus. I don't know if he even progressed to the AIDS stage yet.



Yes both your threads are right


----------



## paphioland (Apr 5, 2007)

you could make a tx to decrease the liklihood of infection by spraying on the plant. Possibly increasing the plants first line of defense, just like the langerhans cells formed matrix in human skin has been found recently to possibly help protect against HIV transmission.


----------



## Bob Wellenstein (Apr 5, 2007)

I've started this six times, and erased it, deciding the best course is a straightforward answer and not getting involved in fractured fairy tales, its a valid question Blake. In essence classic vaccines depend on priming the T & B cells that make up our immune systems, and these along with a rapid transport system that can carry them to any part of the organism are lacking in plants.


----------



## paphioland (Apr 5, 2007)

Plants might not have an adaptable immune sytem but they do have physical barriers to prevent transmission of viruses. These could be enhanced. There are also other ways to attempt to fight viruses besides vaccination. I don't know much about plant physiology but delivering a systemic tx against the virus itself must be theoretically do able. Just like curing aids or using genetic engineering/tissue engineering to cure diabetes is thoeretically possible. The reason no one even bothers is because it would be a waste of money and resources.


----------



## bwester (Apr 5, 2007)

It just seems like there has got to be some advance in treating plant viruses. seems like everyone has just accepted that they win and not tried anything else...


----------



## gonewild (Apr 5, 2007)

bwester said:


> It just seems like there has got to be some advance in treating plant viruses. seems like everyone has just accepted that they win and not tried anything else...



Try this formula Blake, it should work.....

alloaromadendrene, alpha-bergamotene, alpha-calacorene, alpha-copaene, alpha-cubebene, alpha-multijugenol, alpha-pinene, alpha-selinene, alpha-thujene, ar-curcumene, beta-bisabolene, beta-caryophyllene, beta-cubebene, beta-elemene, beta-farnesene, beta-humulene, betaine, beta-muurolene, beta-pinene, beta-selinene, bincatriol, borneol, calamesene, camphene, carioazulene, caryophyllenes, catechins, cedrucine, 
coipaiferic acid, copaene, copaibic acids, copaiferolic acid, copalic acid, crolechinic acid, cuparophenol, cyperene, daucosterol, delta-cadinene, delta-elemene, dihydrobenzofuran, dimethylcedrusine, dipentene, D-limonene, enantio-agathic acid, eugenol, euparophenol, gallocatechin, gamma-cadinene, gamma-elemene, gamma-humulene, gamma-terpinene, gamma-terpineol, hardwickic acids, hardwickiic acid, illurinic acid, isoboldine, kaurenic acid, kaurenoic acids, kolavenol 1, korberin A & B, lignin, linalool, magnoflorine, maracaibobalsam, methlyl copalate, methylthymol, myrcene, norisoboldine, paracopaibic acids, p-cymene, polyalthic acid, proanthocyanidins, procyanidins, resin, tannin, taspine, terpinen-4-ol, trans-alpha-bergamotene, and vanillin


----------



## Bob Wellenstein (Apr 5, 2007)

Well, engineering resistance could likely be done, but there are too many different orchids, with none being financially significant enough to do so. Not to mention that the major market these days is in disposable plants anyway. The best approach still is prevention. Be wary of older Phrag clones and anything that comes from collections with lots of Cattleya or Cymbidium alliance plants, this is where we saw most of the virused "Cyps" when we were indexing. And be careful of aphids, especially with plants that may be summered outdoors.


----------



## bwester (Apr 5, 2007)

Bob, was there anything you have found that can be used to increase a plants resistance to viruses in general?


----------



## Eric Muehlbauer (Apr 5, 2007)

Magic Johnson is living with HIV...he has not been cured. If you doubt that, offer to receive a blood transfusion from him. There are many others who are not famous who are living just as long, and just as healthy, due to various anti-retroviral drug combinations...they are not cured. it is still not known if these drugs will benefit for a lifetime, or if they are just buying time...it is well within the realm of possibility that time will run out and these people will come down with full-blown AIDS. There are also people who are HIV-positive who have never come down with AIDS, and no treatment either...these people are naturally immune. This is to be expected whenever a virus is introduced into a population. If its deadly, some, maybe most, will die...the resitant few go on to expand into a resistant population. Humans got HIV 1 from chimps, HIV 2 from sootey mangabey monkeys...we got sick, they are unaffected (at this point in their evolution...presumably their "AIDS" occured generations ago). As far as I know, there is no virus, affecting plant or animal, that can be cured......As for plant viruses, as already mentioned by others, plants do not have the active immune systems that animals have. For viruses, they may not need it. Plant viruses are a major inconvenience for humans, who want their orchids free of mosaic markings and color breaks. Plants can live with them. Maybe they won't have as many offspring as they would without the virus, but they can still reproduce...and that is all that counts in the natural world. Take care, Eric


----------



## Hien (Apr 6, 2007)

Eric Muehlbauer said:


> Magic Johnson is living with HIV...he has not been cured. If you doubt that, offer to receive a blood transfusion from him. There are many others who are not famous who are living just as long, and just as healthy, due to various anti-retroviral drug combinations...they are not cured. it is still not known if these drugs will benefit for a lifetime, or if they are just buying time...it is well within the realm of possibility that time will run out and these people will come down with full-blown AIDS. There are also people who are HIV-positive who have never come down with AIDS, and no treatment either...these people are naturally immune. This is to be expected whenever a virus is introduced into a population. If its deadly, some, maybe most, will die...the resitant few go on to expand into a resistant population. Humans got HIV 1 from chimps, HIV 2 from sootey mangabey monkeys...we got sick, they are unaffected (at this point in their evolution...presumably their "AIDS" occured generations ago). As far as I know, there is no virus, affecting plant or animal, that can be cured......As for plant viruses, as already mentioned by others, plants do not have the active immune systems that animals have. For viruses, they may not need it. Plant viruses are a major inconvenience for humans, who want their orchids free of mosaic markings and color breaks. Plants can live with them. Maybe they won't have as many offspring as they would without the virus, but they can still reproduce...and that is all that counts in the natural world. Take care, Eric


 My father told me that a population will always have someone who totally immune to certain virus or bacteria that wipe out others.
PBS shown this person who had been exposed to HIV so many times, but never get infected (all his friends had died) he missing both copies of something in his genes. They also show that lot of the northern caucasians descendants also have this mutation (some lack 1 and can get sick eventually, but do survive for a long time, those that lack both markers never get sick, the virus can not invade the cells in their bodies)
They trace this particular trait to descendants of the real survivors of the plague who had the mutation genes at the time. (not from the ones who survive because of remote isolated location)


----------

