# guessing game



## SYL (Jan 30, 2013)

F1 hybird


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## cattmad (Jan 30, 2013)

sangii X ?


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## TyroneGenade (Jan 30, 2013)

emersoni x charlesworthi


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## Barry (Jan 30, 2013)

fairrieanum x emersonii


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## Cochlopetalum (Jan 30, 2013)

Paphiopedilum vietnamense x fairrieanum ?.


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## SlipperKing (Jan 30, 2013)

Clearly fairrieanum is one parent.


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## TyroneGenade (Jan 30, 2013)

Cochlopetalum said:


> Paphiopedilum vietnamense x fairrieanum ?.



Hmm... The vietnamense is a better guess than the emersonii but I'm not sold on the other being fairrieanum. Some vietnamense have petals which reflex just as shown above: http://www.paphs.net/media/Paphs/viet.htm


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## The Orchid Boy (Jan 30, 2013)

P. fairrieanum x P. charlesworthii ? Or (P. emersonii x P. charlesworthii) x P. fairrieanum ?


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## eggshells (Jan 30, 2013)

niveum x vietnamense?


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## nikv (Jan 30, 2013)

vietnamense x concolor?


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## GuRu (Jan 30, 2013)

delenatii (vietnamense) x callosum


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## Paph_LdyMacBeth (Jan 30, 2013)

Wow that's pretty! 
I'm keen to see what it is 

Sent from my BlackBerry 9300 using Tapatalk


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## NYEric (Jan 30, 2013)

hang x sang!


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## mrhappyrotter (Jan 30, 2013)

Guys, clearly it's a jpeg.


But seriously, put me down for fairrieanum x vietnamense.


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## cnycharles (Jan 30, 2013)

armeniacum x vietnamense ?


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## NYEric (Jan 30, 2013)

cnycharles said:


> armeniacum x vietnamense ?



oke: really!?


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## cnycharles (Jan 30, 2013)

has a yellow pouch (armeniacum) and color/shape of vietnamense; I 'never' said I knew anything about paphs 

besides, I can't guess what everyone else is guessing...


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## mrhappyrotter (Jan 30, 2013)

Answers!!! We need answers!


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## SlipperFan (Jan 30, 2013)

First of all, is it even a primary???


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## Leo_5313 (Jan 30, 2013)

Whatever this is it is amazing!


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## MorandiWine (Jan 31, 2013)

kovachii x venustum


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## Cochlopetalum (Jan 31, 2013)

SlipperFan said:


> First of all, is it even a primary???



It says F1 hybrid, so I would say it's a primary.


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## goldenrose (Jan 31, 2013)

Different! I bet we're going to say 'oh, of course!' 
Charles - I do like your guess, I was using the same reasoning.... but there's something suppressing the white & green colors ....
hmmm .....


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## NYEric (Jan 31, 2013)

MorandiWine said:


> kovachii x venustum


YES!!


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## Clark (Jan 31, 2013)

Visual observation is inconclusive. Photo too small.


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## SlipperFan (Jan 31, 2013)

Cochlopetalum said:


> It says F1 hybrid, so I would say it's a primary.


Ok, I'm showing my ignorance: What does F1 mean???


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## cnycharles (Jan 31, 2013)

I thought that it was simply the designation of the offspring from the results of pollination or conception (not sure if f1 applies to crosses by non-plant species, I would assume so but just not sure); meaning the first wave of offspring (like a math equation sort of), usually used in genetics discussion

okay parent 1 and parent 2 are crossed
1 x 2
you get offspring which in this case is 'z'
1 x 2 is z
z is the F1 generation

if you were to cross some of the offspring from the F1 generation
z1 x z5 is z alpha
z alpha is now the F2 generation. crossing parents gives you the F1 generation, then crossing some of the F1's gives you the F2 generation of that original cross

probably waaaaay too wordy and long

maybe the easiest way I should have said it was
take two parents, cross them, the population you first get is the F1 generation. cross some of the F1's and you get the F2 generation

I'm sure that this designation also applies if you do selfings of a parent. If you do another crossing of the original parents, those offspring then become the F1 generation of that particular cross or breeding; cross some of them and you get the F2


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## SlipperFan (Jan 31, 2013)

Thanks, Charles. I'm a little more informed now.


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## Cochlopetalum (Jan 31, 2013)

F1 = First filial generation.
The filial generation comprised of offspring(s) resulting from a cross between strains of distinct genotypes.


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## Ozpaph (Jan 31, 2013)

Cochlopetalum said:


> F1 = First filial generation.
> The filial generation comprised of offspring(s) resulting from a cross between strains of distinct genotypes.



so, does the term 'F1', strictly speaking, only apply to line breeding siblings or selfings?? (ie not first generation hybrids - species cross species)


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## cnycharles (Jan 31, 2013)

I think it's a generic genetics term; you make a cross and the offspring resulting are the F1 generation. It doesn't imply the types of parents, just that all those in 'f1, f2' are all directly related in their own generation

now, I have seen in places where someone has been doing orchid breeding of a certain species, and they use 'f1, f2, f3, f4' and so on, and I don't know if they are really using all the same plants to make these crosses. I have seen up to 'f6' used for certain breeding of phal bellina, to indicate that they are supposed to by highly selected, but I don't know if all the parents in each generation are all from the original parents, and that sort of thing, or if they are including outcrosses and are using the F descriptor incorrectly. They want to show that it's the next level of breeding and expected improvement, but who knows if they are using the term properly or not. (I think it was michael ooi who I had seen using this designation for his bellinas)


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## Cochlopetalum (Feb 1, 2013)

Ozpaph said:


> so, does the term 'F1', strictly speaking, only apply to line breeding siblings or selfings?? (ie not first generation hybrids - species cross species)



If the first filial generation is the offsprings from a cross between strains of distinct genotypes.

That means the parents of the F1 can't be closely related. They come from 2 different breedinglines or species. Speaking of F1 in orchid breeding, in most cases would indicate a primarycross.

The F2, F3 and so on, is the following generations of inbreeding/linebreeding the offspring.


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## Ozpaph (Feb 1, 2013)

thanks for the help.


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## TyroneGenade (Feb 1, 2013)

So what is it?


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## Erythrone (Feb 1, 2013)

vietnamense x fairrieanum?


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## tim (Feb 1, 2013)

hangianum x fairrieanum, with a nice red hangianum?


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## mrhappyrotter (Feb 1, 2013)

The guessing game isn't really that fun when you never get to find out what the plant is.


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## wjs2nd (Feb 1, 2013)

mrhappyrotter said:


> The guessing game isn't really that fun when you never get to find out what the plant is.



I agree!


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## Clark (Feb 1, 2013)

yawn.


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## SlipperFan (Feb 1, 2013)

Maybe Syl dropped off the face of the earth?


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## Erythrone (Feb 2, 2013)

wjs2nd said:


> I agree!



so do I!!!


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## TyroneGenade (Feb 4, 2013)

SlipperFan said:


> Maybe Syl dropped off the face of the earth?



Maybe Syl doesn't know either.


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## iweyshen (Feb 4, 2013)

This cross is (fairrieanum x emersonii)


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## tim (Feb 4, 2013)

lol...with that "special" variety of emersonii? It looks nothing like a normal India Ennega: http://www.orchidweb.jp/orchidshow/tokyopaph2006/IMG_5516.jpg


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## Erythrone (Feb 4, 2013)

tim, how can you explan the dark color of Syl's plant?


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## wjs2nd (Feb 4, 2013)

Hmmm, the shape is basically the same as the picture. The color is just lighter.


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## NYEric (Feb 4, 2013)

Sweet! i'll take one of each the light and dark color ones!!


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## Hera (Feb 4, 2013)

I know........a lycaste and a hangianum went into a bar. 120 days and two years later, voila!:evil:


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## goldenrose (Feb 4, 2013)

:rollhappy::rollhappy::rollhappy: good one Hera!
Really fairrie x emersonii????


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## tim (Feb 4, 2013)

It's hangianum instead of emersonii, just like all the other exceptionally dark 'emersonii' hybrids


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## mrhappyrotter (Feb 4, 2013)

I'm unconvinced about the hangianum parentage assuming this is a primary hybrid. The staminode has quite a bit of yellow in it -- more than I feel could be explained by hangianum as a parent. 

Also, I would expect the raspberry coloration to be particularly intense near the base of the petals, and then show significant fading towards the tips of the petals. In this flower, the intensity of the coloration is fairly uniform.

To me, this looks like a particularly colorful Paph. Black Diamond (though obviously more intensely colored) and that suggests it's fairrieanum x vietnamense.

Right or wrong, that's my logic.


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## SYL (Feb 4, 2013)

Like the Barry and wey say.
Answer is fairrianum × emersonii.
I knew the result well be questioned by many people.
But it is
Ask God
:rollhappy:


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## SYL (Feb 4, 2013)

MorandiWine said:


> kovachii x venustum



Creative
:clap:


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## NYEric (Feb 4, 2013)

He is an aethist and doesn't believe in me.


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## SYL (Feb 4, 2013)

cnycharles said:


> I thought that it was simply the designation of the offspring from the results of pollination or conception (not sure if f1 applies to crosses by non-plant species, I would assume so but just not sure); meaning the first wave of offspring (like a math equation sort of), usually used in genetics discussion
> 
> okay parent 1 and parent 2 are crossed
> 1 x 2
> ...



nice explanation:clap:
thanks


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## SYL (Feb 4, 2013)

plant can explain some things


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