# Green "Maudiae" question



## Eric Muehlbauer (Mar 7, 2014)

Ever since I got involved in slippers, it seems like, among the green Maudiae types, the top clones have been Alma Gavaert "Madame Maurice Mertens", Clair De Lune "Edvard Van Bell" and Maudiae "The Queen", with, I guess "The Queen" considered the best of the bunch. All of these are old hybrids. Are there any new green barbata crosses that surpass these early guys? Even come close? It seems that there is nothing new out there worth getting over these crosses (not counting intersectional crosses, like those with fairreanum)?


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## Ozpaph (Mar 8, 2014)

Well grown, those are hard to beat. There can only be so many ways you can interbreed a small handful of 'album' species before they all look pretty much the same.
My impression is that some of the new crosses from Sam Tsui and the Taiwanese breeders will produce bigger blooms. eg Hilo Citron


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## Roy (Mar 8, 2014)

Eric, I have to agree with you on those earlier hybrids you listed. As Opaph said, they have to be grown well but as to the modern hybrids, to me, they leave a lot to be desired. Some of the promoted clones have a hard time matching Maudiae 'Magnificum' flowered well. I think there is a side to it that because very little breeding was being done with them that jumping on the band wagon was chosen. Growers got carried away with the 'new' supply of these plants & delight over took sense & away they went. Maybe the older clones were harder or impossible to obtain that helped. Newer grower, hadn't seen the older ones nor been able to buy ?? Cost of some is over the top also ( asked by some nurseries)
We have a green maudiae over here, P. Gael 'Camira'. It was awarded & dozens of divisions ?? were instantly available. I have seen 7 different so-called divisions flowered extremely well, none look the same. I'll leave it to you to contemplate.


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## Trithor (Mar 8, 2014)

I think it is important to realise that in the barbata group, there are only a limited number of 'album' species available to mix in without resorting to intersectional hybrids. So the permutations are limited, and we now find most hybrids in the group being very similar to each other.
I agree that there has not been much gained past the 'original' big guns listed. However, I have seen some very good Almaud, Hsinying Citron, Hilo Citron, Goultenianum x Hsinying Citron flowering lately. 
The problem is that given the genetic similarity of the plants, you need to flower out a huge amount to get a few exceptional plants, by far the majority are average (but a good average) as the 'Bell curve' is much steeper than in other types of crosses.
If you are looking for an above average green 'Maudiae' type, buying one or two plants or even one or two flasks is unlikely to do that for you, ten or twenty flasks,..... perhaps. This is the reason why the really good ones are so expensive, the vast majority being simply a good average.


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## Ozpaph (Mar 8, 2014)

Hope my Gael 'Camira' isnt a fake....................


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## jeremyinsf (Mar 8, 2014)

I have heard stories more than once of fake "The Queen" plants being sold in a similar fashion.

I have a large plant of Clair De Lune that I got from a trusted grower - It produces the largest green maudiae flowers I've ever personally seen, usually two per spike. I enjoy it, and then stop myself from thinking about it and wondering if it's "real". That's just what I need to do for me, to keep me sane


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## Roy (Mar 8, 2014)

I've seen Maudiae 'The Queen' replicas as well. The dorsal isn't anywhere near the size it should be for 'The Queen' on excellent plants. 'The Queen', from a very experienced grower/hybridiser tells me that doesn't breed either. It appears to be sterile. Any crosses listed as having it as a parent need to be treated with caution/disbelief.

Gael 'Camira', genuine ?, who knows. You just have to grow/show it as such.
Picking a green Maudiae for a name is like naming a white Phalaenopsis.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Mar 8, 2014)

I have heard that Maudiae "Bankhaus" is identical to "The Queen". I disagree. I have bloomed both, and if anything, "Bankhaus" resembles "Maginificum". Nothing to complain about, of course.....I love Mag and want to get it again, despite already having the Queen.


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## terryros (Mar 10, 2014)

This little debate crops up every once in a while and is probably not able to be settled for sure. I have a division of Maudiae 'Bankhaus' obtained about four years ago from Jerry Fischer at Orchids Limited. He was very confident in the reliability of the source, able to trace it back to the original plant belonging to Mrs. Margaret Dupont in 1941 who got it awarded. Jerry also told me that he had seen or traced the documentation that the Maudiae clone 'The Queen' which was awarded later was in fact traceable back to 'Bankhaus'. With no genetic testing to be able to test this, we can never know for sure. When we realize how easy it was in those days, without easily available record keeping, to have different divisions of plants awarded as different clones, I have given up thinking we will ever know. I have always wanted Jerry to publish the detective work showing the connection between 'Bankhaus' and the subsequent 'The Queen' but I think he has better things to do with kovachii!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## reivilos (Apr 6, 2014)

Eric Muehlbauer said:


> Ever since I got involved in slippers, it seems like, among the green Maudiae types, the top clones have been Alma Gavaert "Madame Maurice Mertens", Clair De Lune "Edvard Van Bell" and Maudiae "The Queen", with, I guess "The Queen" considered the best of the bunch. All of these are old hybrids. Are there any new green barbata crosses that surpass these early guys? Even come close? It seems that there is nothing new out there worth getting over these crosses (not counting intersectional crosses, like those with fairreanum)?



I find it strange there are so many divisions of the said clones out there. Especially since most are considered 3N .
I also wonder why noone redo the cross. Isn't hyeanum still among us?

Not 100% related, but still refreshing: http://www.aosforum.org/pdf/Paph_Maudiae.pdf
I seriously miss that kind of articles.


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## reivilos (Apr 6, 2014)

It looks like the aos link no longer works. Here is the one I downloaded last year:
http://www.speedyshare.com/g4qdd/Paph-Maudiae.pdf


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## Ozpaph (Apr 7, 2014)

Norton AV blocks its download.


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## SlipperKing (Apr 7, 2014)

I have a question: I own a division of Maudiae 'Magnificum' supposably. When it does bloom the flowers are not large nor is the plant itself. It comes nowhere close to the size of 'The Queen'. So, do I have Maudiae 'Magnificum' or not? Is it compareable size-wise to 'The Queen'?


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## NYEric (Apr 7, 2014)

Buy the bloom, not the name!


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## PaphMadMan (Apr 7, 2014)

Based on awards listed in OrchidWiz, 'Magnificum' tended to get cultural awards with up to 18 spikes with 11-12cm ns flowers on specimen plants, while 'The Queen' got quality awards with 1-2 flowers in the 15-18cm ns range.


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## SlipperKing (Apr 7, 2014)

Well that makes sense then Kirk because my Magnificum is in that size range and does tend to clump.


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