# Average Mortality Rate with Compots



## JAB (Sep 2, 2016)

A question for the breeders here...
In the process of flask to compot and raising the compot... what is the average mortality rate of the seedlings? For example if I deflask 20 little ones and transplant in a compot; by the time they are ready to be transplanted individually, what percentage is average for loss? 

Just curious if there was a standard, as obviously a number of factors and variables would dictate such numbers. 

Thanks
Jake


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## Bjorn (Sep 2, 2016)

Normally less than 2-3. Mostly all get through, but not all grow well. Occasionally disasters happen with almost 100% mortality. I do not include those in the regular statistics. It al depends heavily on the condition and how the flask was bred.


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## troy (Sep 2, 2016)

My experience is 2-4 die out of 20


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## Ray (Sep 2, 2016)

I suspect that's related to the species and your ability to provide the "just right" conditions.

For example I know Holger Perner ran about 95% losses with Paph. tigrinum, until he devised a four-stage process through flasks, at which point that improved to about 75-80% losses. When he added the Inocucor product to his culture upon deflasking, that mortality dropped to about 15%.


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## NYEric (Sep 2, 2016)

I have a very high loss rate. Too much moisture.


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## Ozpaph (Sep 2, 2016)

Of the good sized seedlings in flask you should grow most of them through the compot stage, barring disasters.


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## JAB (Sep 2, 2016)

Good feedback, thanks guys!


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## Happypaphy7 (Sep 7, 2016)

Not a breeder, but an indoor grower, but based on my limited experience, yes, mortality rate is usually very low, but I guess it depends on the crops and culture.

I have tried a few flasks ( section parvi, barbarta, paphiopedilum) and I rarely lost any at all other than a few that I accidentally pull apart and therefore end up rootless or torn apart.


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## littlefrog (Sep 8, 2016)

I'd go with Ray... I have always been 'OK' at deflasking paphs and phrags, lost a few flasks, had occasional home runs. I'd say most flasks gave me about 70% of what started out in the flask. Good enough at it that I continued to buy flasks (lots of them), but I wouldn't say it was the best investment. 

After I started using the Innocucor stuff I can report an amazing improvement. The last 40 or so flasks I've compotted are giving me at least 90% survival (I routinely get 25 plants into 2" pots out of a compot - the flasks are supposed to have 25 - usually they have a few more). Even the hard species. I don't think it is just luck, I haven't changed my conditions other than the Innocucor. I'm going to run out of space...  

One last tip - repot frequently. I've stepped it up, I'll repot my initial compots after six months. Some will go into individual 2" pots (about half), and the rest go back into new compots. I'll even get a few (phrags mostly) that go right into 3.5" pots from compot. Seedlings in small pots need repotting at least once a year. If I let them go longer than that they suffer badly. I had amazing root growth on my phrag seedlings this year, which I attribute to the Innocucor and the fresh mix. Some I've needed to repot more than once a year, simply because they outgrow the small pots.

Anyway, I'm normally pretty subdued about new products, never really seen the wonders that people report for fertilizers, etc. This Innocucor stuff is the real deal. If you are at all worried about your technique, it is well worth the investment. Even if you are comfortable with deflasking, I think it is still worth it. Cheap insurance.


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## JAB (Sep 9, 2016)

Thanks for sharing your experiences Rob. Good info in there! 
I would never refer to Inocucor as "cheap" but I agree it is certainly worth the investment.


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## Ray (Sep 9, 2016)

So let's do some math.


Flask of 25 plants - $200, or $8 per plant.
Liter of Inocucor - $32, or $1.50 per gallon of treatment spray/drench
In my experience, one gallon will treat the plants at deflasking, and for daily sprayings for a couple of weeks, if that's the approach you want to take.

If one even one plant survives that you'd have otherwise lost, it's a bargain.


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## littlefrog (Sep 9, 2016)

Yes. Cheap insurance. Although feel free to get us a better price, Ray...


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## Ray (Sep 10, 2016)

Well jeez, Rob. I just had it on sale for a few weeks that just ended last weekend.


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## littlefrog (Sep 10, 2016)

I always miss the sales...  Still have half a bottle though, I'm good.


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