# So I mixed up my own sulphur spray...



## ALToronto (Feb 11, 2014)

Put 15 ml of powered sulphur (Green Earth fungicide / miticide) in a litre of water, shook it up and sprayed all my orchids. Several phals were showing signs of being eaten by mites, so I decided to take no chances - I figure it can't hurt even if I don't have mites.

The homemade spray turned out to be much more concentrated than the pre-mixed spray I had been using (also by Green Earth). So now my plants look like I had them behind the rear wheels of a Jeep, spinning in white mud.

My questions:

Is dried-up sulphur slurry doing anything against mites? I'm sure it helps as a fungicide, but wouldn't it need to be wet to kill mites? 

Do I need to re-spray with sulphur in a week, or can I re-activate the sulphur by spraying with clean water? 

Should I leave the sulphur on the leaves, or am I more likely to kill the mites by washing and wiping the leaves?


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## Justin (Feb 11, 2014)

i would use something a lttle stronger. pyrethrines are good against mites and relatively safe for mammals. be sure to spray undersides of the leaves too.


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## consettbay2003 (Feb 11, 2014)

Powdered sulphur will have a 'drying' effect on the leaves which is a condition that mites prefer. You would have more success in dealing with mites by using an insecticidal soap.


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## ALToronto (Feb 11, 2014)

I don't think soap is very effective - I've had it let me down before. I'll try pyrethrin. Should I be spraying the medium as well (sphag/lava rock), or just the leaves?


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## Justin (Feb 11, 2014)

spray the top of the medium, in the leaf axils, and underneath the leaves.

keep in mind most pyrethrins are mixed with horticultural oil, so turn the lights off until it dries.

treatments 7 days apart should do it.


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## John M (Feb 11, 2014)

Why would you use sulphur for mites? It's effective as a topical fungicide; but, I haven't heard of it being for mites. By far, the best thing I've ever used for mites, in my 30+ years of growing orchids, is horticultural oil. Green Earth is the brand I'm currently using. The label says you can use it at 10 ml per litre for spraying plants while in growth. I use it at 15 ml per litre; but, NOT more. You don't want to clog the stomata and suffocate your plants; you just want to suffocate your mites. It does a fantastic job at killing mites....and your plants don't get that "covered in mud" look! It's made of a very high grade mineral oil with a bit of emulsifier to help the oil mix with water. So, there isn't any toxicity issues for you when using it. It's even WAY better than using things like Pentac, or other chemicals.

I have a very mixed collection and I have never had any damage. However, there are some plants, most noteably, Dendrobium cuthbertsonii, that are reported to hate oil spray. Also, in my greenhouse, not long after I spray, the plants end up getting sprayed with clear water anyway, as a matter of my normal routine. So, the oil residue is rinsed off; but, by then, the mites are dead. The "dry" oil residue will readily disolve and rinse off because it has the emulsifier as part of it's make-up. If you used pharmacy bought mineral oil, not only is that grade too thick, it won't rinse off nearly as easily.

Doing a thorough spraying of your entire collection about once a month, should keep all your plants free of mites. Don't use the oil at a stronger concentration than 10 to 15 ml per litre and don't be temped to spray over and over and over too close together. Your plants need time to breathe.


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## Stone (Feb 11, 2014)

Sulphur works very well on all kinds of mites - especially the microfine stuff. Probably by clogging up their breathing? But I hate the residue on the leaves too so I think I'll reserve it for dipping new plants and disinfecting plants when repotting etc. Oil works well too but I've noticed damage on some seedlings and a phrag. There are new sprays based on vegetable oils rather than mineral oil which might be worth a try. You can make your own by mixing liquid soap with veg oil. I'm sure the web has recipes. In fact I might try that myself.


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## ALToronto (Feb 11, 2014)

John, thanks for the advice on horticultural oil. As for sulphur for mites, I'm just reading the product labels. Both the powder and the prepared spray are labelled fungicide/miticide. I don't know how or why it would work against mites, but Green Earth insists that it does.

I like the idea of an oil emulsion; the sulphur residue is really ugly.


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## Paphman910 (Feb 12, 2014)

I totally agree with John M regarding the Horticulture oil to treat for mites. All the garden shops recommend them all the time.


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## John M (Feb 12, 2014)

I guess it's been a VERY long time since I actually read the label on a can of sulphur. I'd forgotten that it's a fungicide/miticide. I keep it on hand for dusting/drying open cuts on plants to prevent disease from gaining a foothold. I don't use it for active fungal infections or mites. Mike (Stone), is probably right about the fine powder clogging up the mite's breathing holes, making it a good mechanical control method. However, the residue is so ugly! 

Sorry, Mike; I strongly disagree with using soap and vegetable oil on plants. Yes, some people have used it and found that it works. But, many people have also used it and found that they just did great harm to their collection. I was one of them about 30 years ago....totally devastated my collection with a soap, vegetable oil and water spray recommended by another grower. Soap is phytotoxic. No soap is safe to use on your plants unless it was specifically formulated for use on plants. Also, vegetable oil is too thick. It will clog the stomata and suffocate the plant, turning the foliage black. Plus, it does not have an emulsifier, making it necessary to use liquid soap. This is an old-fashioned, home remedy and it's simply not as good, or as safe, as using the right stuff.


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## Stone (Feb 12, 2014)

John M said:


> > Sorry, Mike; I strongly disagree with using soap and vegetable oil on plants. Yes, some people have used it and found that it works. But, many people have also used it and found that they just did great harm to their collection. I was one of them about 30 years ago....totally devastated my collection with a soap, vegetable oil and water spray recommended by another grower. Soap is phytotoxic. No soap is safe to use on your plants unless it was specifically formulated for use on plants. Also, vegetable oil is too thick. It will clog the stomata and suffocate the plant, turning the foliage black. Plus, it does not have an emulsifier, making it necessary to use liquid soap. This is an old-fashioned, home remedy and it's simply not as good, or as safe, as using the right stuff.[/
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Ozpaph (Feb 12, 2014)

Ive used eco-oil. In fact last weekend. No harm even in our hot weather (late afternoon application). Not sure if its works, yet.


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## Ray (Feb 12, 2014)

I have to disagree with John's broad assessment of the use of soaps on plants.

I have used liquid dish-washing soaps and detergents for years with absolutely no negative results - including when used with vegetable oils. 

Our differences of experience could be related to the soaps used, the concentrations used, or the timing- or conditions of application.


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## John M (Feb 12, 2014)

Ray said:


> Our differences of experience could be related to the soaps used, the concentrations used, or the timing- or conditions of application.



Making the use of soaps and vegetable oils a game of Russian Roulette. You just never know which set of specific circumstances will trigger damage and/or death. However, using horticultural oil, designed and recommended for use on plants while in growth, takes the risk away.


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## Paph_LdyMacBeth (Feb 12, 2014)

I have two passion flower vines that I bring inside every winter and are notorious carriers of mites. I also happen to place these plants next to my lycastes etc which have very fine leaves and get easily destroyed by mites. I started spraying all my plants with sucrashield routinely and it eliminates mites easily. Prior to this I was using hort or neem oil, but I really didn't find it as effective and I didn't like the smell of the neem.


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## Jaljala (Feb 13, 2014)

I used sucrashield with success as well on my Catasetinae.


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## SlipperFan (Feb 13, 2014)

I've used sucrashield on my Phals, Paphs and Catasetinae all with good results and no harm to the plants.


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## John M (Feb 14, 2014)

I've never used Sucrawshield; but, my understanding is that it's a sugar based spray. Once the solution dries, the sugar is so sticky that the bugs suffocate and die. I remember about 20 years ago when Jean-Pierre (Phrag-Plus), told me that he used Coca-Cola (as a source of sugar in solution), on his plants to kill mites and it worked really well for him.


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## ALToronto (Feb 14, 2014)

I have Sucrashield - and there is a lot more to it than just sugar. I really don't like the smell, but if it works, I'll use it. I do remember getting a bad ant infestation a while back - I wonder if Sucrashield had anything to do with it?

I asked an fellow member of SOOS (our orchid society), and in her opinion, I have false mites - these are about 10x smaller than regular mites and are impossible to see without magnification. They feed on chlorophyll, and she said that she used Windex to get rid of them. Any thoughts on the 'My Big Fat Greek Wedding' remedy?


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## Paph_LdyMacBeth (Feb 14, 2014)

Ha ha ha I know exactly who you talked to about the Windex! ...I'm not sure its the best suggestion, but they are excellent growers, so they might know a thing or two. I just worry about it affecting the plants as it contains ammonia and other harsh chemicals. I'm also not sure which method gets rid of the mites.
You'll have to figure out the mite lifecycle and treat accordingly. Using a combination of sucrashield weekly for 4 weeks and neem or hort oil (also once weekly a few days later) should probably do it. 

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## Trithor (Feb 16, 2014)

I have used Neem oil to spray on my plants, I find that it works for both mites and a host of insects. I find the smell very unpleasant so don't use it too often anymore, and if I do, I try to use it in a more isolated application. Somebody recently recommended 'citrus' oil. I spray it with a few drops of regular dishwashing soap mixed in. Till now I have not seen any adverse effects on the plants. It definitely seems to work on mites, and an added benefit is that it has a very pleasing smell, with no ugly marks on the plants.


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## Ray (Feb 16, 2014)

John M said:


> I've never used Sucrawshield; but, my understanding is that it's a sugar based spray. Once the solution dries, the sugar is so sticky that the bugs suffocate and die.



Sorry John. You're WAY off.

SucraShield is a blend of sucrose octanoate esters - no sugar in it anywhere - sucrose is just a starting raw material in the chemical manufacturing process, and it does not leave a sugary residue.

The esters break down the protective coatings on the insects' and mites' eggs, pupae, larvae and adults, and they desiccate to death.


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## NYEric (Feb 16, 2014)

Neem w/ peppermint soap, alcohol, water and Merit 75, can't smell any worse than sulphur solution!


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## John M (Feb 16, 2014)

Thanks Ray. 'Guess I should not have commented on what I think; but, just stick to what I know.


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## cnycharles (Feb 16, 2014)

If I only commented on what I knew, probably wouldn't be too many posts!


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## Paph_LdyMacBeth (Feb 16, 2014)

cnycharles said:


> If I only commented on what I knew, probably wouldn't be too many posts!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




ha ha ha I would have nothing to add...to anything...ever. lol

From personal experience though, I can attest that Sucrashield does not leave any kind of residue. I particularly love it for my "fine" leaved plants such as lycastes and catasetinae as I find it very gentile. It also dries very quickly, so I don't have to worry about saturating the plants. It truly has changed my pest-control regime. I have also been able to shorten my quarantine period (and I can use it on most blooms...though I dont advise this)
I'm actually going to have to order more soon, Ray!


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## lepetitmartien (Feb 16, 2014)

(Really bad smelling neem oil is old oxydised oil…


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## John M (Feb 17, 2014)

Other than mites, what do you all use Sucrashield for?


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## Paph_LdyMacBeth (Feb 17, 2014)

It works great for mealies. I've not had an outbreak, but it controls the one's coming in. 
I originally bought it to deal with soft scale...which it isn't marketed to do, but it came with a recommendation. It worked great! A scale problem I had been battling for almost a year cleared up within a couple of months! I only used sucrashield once weekly, and would wipe the scale off every now and again (which I was doing with the previous method also). 
I am only growing indoors with a collection just shy of 125plants. I have recommended it to two friends with greenhouses who had success with it for general control.

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## John M (Feb 17, 2014)

Thanks! I should give this a try. Where can I get some?


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## Jaljala (Feb 17, 2014)

I would think that it is the alcohol component in Windex which helps kill the mites. Spraying 70% isopropyl on the plants would most likely do the same without arm to the plants (I have done it), the alcohol evaporates quicky once sprayed.
I too dislike the smell of sucrashield (as well as the smell of sulfur!), but it is efficient...


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## Jaljala (Feb 17, 2014)

ALToronto said:


> I have Sucrashield - and there is a lot more to it than just sugar. I really don't like the smell, but if it works, I'll use it. I do remember getting a bad ant infestation a while back - I wonder if Sucrashield had anything to do with it?
> 
> I asked an fellow member of SOOS (our orchid society), and in her opinion, I have false mites - these are about 10x smaller than regular mites and are impossible to see without magnification. They feed on chlorophyll, and she said that she used Windex to get rid of them. Any thoughts on the 'My Big Fat Greek Wedding' remedy?



I think the mites you are talking about could be the twospotted mites. They are indeed extremely small ( you need x10 magnifying glass to see them) and you only notice them when they start to be in huge numbers. 
I don't know how many plants you have, but for big infestation (if you don't want to use Sucrashield or other strong chemical , wipping the leaves with 70% alcohol is efficient, but you have to do it often...


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## SlipperFan (Feb 17, 2014)

...and it won't kill the mites that are on the stems.


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## Paph_LdyMacBeth (Feb 17, 2014)

SlipperFan said:


> ...and it won't kill the mites that are on the stems.




Why not?



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## Paph_LdyMacBeth (Feb 17, 2014)

John M said:


> Thanks! I should give this a try. Where can I get some?




I got mine from Ray. Need more soon! 


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## John M (Feb 17, 2014)

Thanks!


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## ALToronto (Feb 18, 2014)

A suggestion for John and PLMcB: if you're going to be ordering SucraShield from Ray, have it go through John, since he is a registered agri business. For individuals importing pesticides from the US, the customs duty is brutal, and it's not obvious on the shipping documents - you need to go to the CRA website, enter a product code from the documents, and then you find out that the duty is over 50%.


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## John M (Feb 18, 2014)

ALToronto said:


> ....have it go through John,...



John who?


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## eggshells (Feb 18, 2014)

Is sucrashield effective on springtails?


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## lepetitmartien (Feb 18, 2014)

Springtails are symptoms (decaying substrate), not issues.


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## SlipperFan (Feb 19, 2014)

Paph_LdyMacBeth said:


> Why not?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my BlackBerry Bold 9900 using Tapatalk



Because wiping the leaves doesn't get the stems. Or anything else that is not leaves.


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## Paph_LdyMacBeth (Feb 19, 2014)

Ah yes, of course! Ha ha ha

I would typically wipe any part of the plant where I can see pest evidence and could get to. I guess they wouldn't be considered pests if they weren't always finding new places to hide themselves! 


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