# Fredclarkeara After Dark



## goldenrose (Dec 4, 2010)

Although it probably has more opening to do, the next couple of days the temp drops so don't want to be bring it from GH to house.
I got this seedling almost 2 years ago from Orchids Unlimited when they attended the Madison Show. It was in a 2.5" pot, 1 old bulb, 1 new. I lost the smallest but gained 2 more. The inflorescence has 16 buds!


----------



## e-spice (Dec 4, 2010)

Wow - Looks great! I can grow cycnoches fine but have a Fredclarkera hybrid that I just can't seem to get the hang of. Any cultural hints?

e-spice


----------



## Erythrone (Dec 4, 2010)

A wonderful plant.... Unfortunatlsy, I am not sure I could grow it successfully.

Warm grower?


----------



## goldenrose (Dec 4, 2010)

I too, Erythrone didn't think I could grow them, some cycnodes grow well for me, they usually don't bloom & I've lost some during dormancy.
Robert said don't let it go dormant that winter, keep it growing & suggested I leave it in the sphagnum. Although I lost the first bulb, it had the second & sprouted another. By fall I let it dry out a little too much, leaves started yellowing & fell off so I knew I had to let it go thru dormancy. This spring it was the first to sprout, we had a hot summer this year, ('09 was cool), I upped the fertilizer & treated it like my other cycnodes, south end of the GH, hung it near the peak, tried not to let it dry out. I did transplant to a larger net pot & loosely pack new sphagnum. It grew like crazy & it was the only one to bloom! I feel I have more intermediate temps normally so did it like the heat + the fertilizer do the trick??? I'll be able to better tell you next year! Hope that helps.
I'm open for suggestions, the leaves are starting to yellow so I'm concerned about the watering. I've been letting it dry slightly but with the other buds yet to open, should I increase it? Judging is next Sat., I don't know if it's possibly award worthy on this first blooming but have to wonder if the flowers would possibly open up more & water is going to have an influence on that??
At the show, on display were a black clone & a brown clone, of course we'd all like black but I liked the brown one too. The velvety lip is black otherwise I'd call it a purple-brown.


----------



## Hera (Dec 4, 2010)

Good growing.:clap:


----------



## McPaph (Dec 4, 2010)

Very nice Rose. I like the brown one too. Although Im going to try and get a piece of the all black one. Congrats on blooming. None of mine bloomed this year, we had a real cool summer here in SOCAL so maybe that had something to do with it.


----------



## li'l frog (Dec 4, 2010)

Rose, if you bring it, you will be able to find out from the judges what its potential is, even if it doesn't get an award. Judging is a learning experience.


----------



## biothanasis (Dec 4, 2010)

Amazing!!!!


----------



## SlipperFan (Dec 4, 2010)

From the little I know, if the leaves are starting to yellow, that's a sign the plant is going into dormancy. I don't think cutting back on water will hurt the flowers -- there is plenty of juice in the pseudobulb. I don't think I'd stop watering just back, but cut back until the leaves are all yellow or dropped -- then stop the watering. At least that's what I remember from Fred Clarke's talk.


----------



## McPaph (Dec 4, 2010)

SlipperFan said:


> From the little I know, if the leaves are starting to yellow, that's a sign the plant is going into dormancy. I don't think cutting back on water will hurt the flowers -- there is plenty of juice in the pseudobulb. I don't think I'd stop watering just back, but cut back until the leaves are all yellow or dropped -- then stop the watering. At least that's what I remember from Fred Clarke's talk.



I agree. My friend Ed grows a bunch of these actually made the cross that fred used to make this cross. When i have gone to his gh in winter when he doesn't water them at all a few are blooming with no leaves on them


----------



## jblanford (Dec 4, 2010)

WOW!! Rose what a great looking plant and blooms, and thanks for all the good information.... Jim.


----------



## Yoyo_Jo (Dec 4, 2010)

Fantastic blooming Rose!!! 

Fred Clarke spoke at our society this year and now we're all gaga for Catasinae! I have four now for heaven's sake.


----------



## smartie2000 (Dec 5, 2010)

Yoyo_Jo said:


> Fantastic blooming Rose!!!
> 
> Fred Clarke spoke at our society this year and now we're all gaga for Catasinae! I have four now for heaven's sake.



me too


----------



## JeanLux (Dec 5, 2010)

That is some great coloration!!! Jean


----------



## smartie2000 (Dec 5, 2010)

Rose, So you are suggesting that you don't let them go into dormancy?
Mine have not gone into dormancy yet, but I think I will let them do that soon...


----------



## Kavanaru (Dec 5, 2010)

very nice one!! Mine is in spike now for teh first time  I was supposed to be a "Black Pearl" but the flowers look more like SVO or any other of the spotted ones... By The Way, the black ones are not really BLACK, they are indeed very dark, but it is more a dark purple, and if not grown under teh right conditions they can be lighter than expected and look actually a bit purple/brown... 




sorry for this, but I have seen some question on how to grow these plants here  Hope you don't mind... 

*Growing Catasetinaes... dormancy or not dormancy...* hhhmm.. my experience: Just let the plant tell you! Most plants will normally go into dormancy automatically (Depending on species, dormancy can last for few weeks to several months!), however, some plants refuse to do it if they are continually receiving water and nutriens (Old leave will indeed become yellow and die off, but a new growth will start just before this...)

However, I know of a grower in Germany who keeps all her Catasetum pileatum and its hybrids on windowsills (all windows of the house should be full, as she is supposed to have over 30 different clones!) continually growing in S/H (potted in standard bark miy, in clay pots sitting on a 2-3 cm layer of water). She does not allow them to go into dormancy and is very succesfull growing these plants! 

Many Catasetinae are adapted to bloom while "dormant" and do not need any "external" water or nutrients for the blooming process, as they take all what they need from the Pseudobulb. As per Fredclarkeara, I am not 100% sure when they normally bloom. I have seen plants blooming after gone into "vegetative dormancy"

So, the general procedure would be: 

1.- as soon as you have an active growth (wait until the roots are at least 5 cm long, as in culture you could have the risk of rot!) you should start watering and feeding like mad. In South America, when catasetinae are grown in pots, some slow release fertilizer is given to the substrat and they are also fed with almost each watering. I give my plants the same treatment and teh fertilizer in the water goes to double the recommended concentration without any visible problems (key: don't let them dry out!).. Note: some species are more susceptible to rot than others, therefore you should keep an eye on the base of the PBs. For Mormodes and Cycnoches it is important not to leave water between the leave!! These are the most susceptible genus to rot! On the other hand, if you detect rot in one PB, don't panic. Just cut it off inmediately, even if it means you stay with only one single PB. The plant will most probably recover! They are adapted to it, as in nature, as mentioned in another thread, they mostly grow on rotting material and if the delicate balance of water is gone, they get PB rot easily, but somehow they manage to recover very qick. Keep in mind that it is easier to keep a Cattleya or Paphiopedilum with perfect healthy leave and PBs than a Catasetinae!

As soon as the pseudobulb is mature, stop heavy feeding and slowly change to use only water. You should also reduce watering a bit, as the plant will not need that much water anymore. It is not very actively growing, but just more a sort of maintenance! at some point the leave will start yellowing and you should stop watering at this point. HOWEVER, if you have a new growth started, forget dormancy.. the plant decided to continue without sleep! 

During vegetative dormancy if you have your plants in a very hot and dry place, the PBs will shrivel... that's normal! BUT, if they shrivel too much, you could quickly water them and let them dry again.

During vegetative dormancy (and after blooming, of course) you can either unpott your plant and keep it bare-root until next season, or you leave it in the pot... now, my experience, and that of all my friend gowing Catasetiane in south america: Catasetiane do better if not repotted every year! We have seen that they like staying in the same substart for up to 3 or 5 years, and love it when the substrat is rotting. You need to be carefull at this point as the risk of rot is very high in normal artificial condition in greenhouses or indoors! Personally, I just leave my plants (those not growing in traditional S/H) for 2 or 3 years in the same pot, allowing them to enjoy rotting material only for one season!

Mormodes, especially those coming from South America or from the rain forest of Central America, need more water than the other Catasetinae (on the other hand they are more susceptible to rot than all other Catasetiane as well!).

The grade of difficulty to grow classical Catasetiane from easier to more difficult: Catasetum, Cycnoches, Clowesia, Mormodes... (cannot say much of Dressleria as I am very new growing this Genus)

AOS has a series about culture of Catasetinae, which are very helpfull:

http://www.aos.org/AM/Images/pdf/Beginners_Series-Ctsm1.pdf
http://www.aos.org/AM/Images/pdf/Beginners_Series-Ctsm2.pdf
http://www.aos.org/AM/Images/pdf/Beginners_Series-Ctsm3.pdf
http://www.aos.org/AM/Images/pdf/Beginners_Series-Ctsm4.pdf
http://www.aos.org/AM/Images/pdf/Beginners_Series-Ctsm5.pdf
http://www.aos.org/AM/Images/pdf/Beginners_Series-Ctsm6.pdf
http://www.aos.org/AM/Images/pdf/Beginners_Series-Ctsm7.pdf

One last word: If you have never had problems with spider mites, get a Catasetinae in your collection and you will! They are magnets to these creeters!! My only recommendation here: preventive treatment!! treat them even if you do not see signs of mites anywhere!! They can kill or damage your plants easier than rot!

P.S.- Sorry for


----------



## etex (Dec 5, 2010)

Fabulous blooms Rose!!


----------



## paphioboy (Dec 5, 2010)

Beautiful...!!!


----------



## NYEric (Dec 5, 2010)

Fantastic! I've wanted to try them but the no watering thing and I aren't really compatible.  Can you please take another foto w/ a different background so the color pops better?  Thanx for posting and good luck. Good info Ramon, maybe I'll try a couple.


----------



## paphreek (Dec 5, 2010)

I love the color on this one, Rose!


----------



## goldenrose (Dec 5, 2010)

smartie2000 said:


> Rose, So you are suggesting that you don't let them go into dormancy?
> Mine have not gone into dormancy yet, but I think I will let them do that soon...


Is yours a young seedling? It was end of Jan. when I bought mine so it made sense to keep it growing. I have supplement lighting in my GH during the winter months so it was easy. I was then faced with a cool summer & somewhat undecided if I should try to keep it growing one more winter. The plant made that decision for me! I think that was a good thing, the growths were huge this year & I'm sure the hot summer it liked, I was watering every other day & fertilizing at full strength. The ones I saw on display had no where near 16 buds, I'd really like to know how many flowers awarded ones had & the size. I think these flowers are a bit small (4.5cm x 4.5cm).


----------



## goldenrose (Dec 5, 2010)

Great info Ramon! I think I got lucky - I did basically what you suggested - so guys make note! (I'll even get braver on the fertilizer next year!)
I was wondering if cooler conditions would produce darker blooms? Even though it spiked this fall, we did have a warm/dry fall.
I have seen plants in bloom without leaves, so I figured this was normal, I didn't want to overwater at this stage. My other thought was - spidermites! :rollhappy: Actually the cycnodes are next to the gongoras, I think spidermites like them as well, they've all been getting Decker's peppermint soap spray!



NYEric said:


> .... Can you please take another foto w/ a different background so the color pops better?  Thanx for posting and good luck. Good info Ramon, maybe I'll try a couple.


Today we have sunny weather & the temps have not taken a nose dive. I'll give it a shot, my gut feeling was there would be to much contrast between the subject & the background & that would throw things off.


----------



## goldenrose (Dec 5, 2010)

li'l frog said:


> Rose, if you bring it, you will be able to find out from the judges what its potential is, even if it doesn't get an award. Judging is a learning experience.


Found out last night at work I'm scheduled to work 1-5pm this Sat. so doesn't look like I'll make it, I have agility trials 2 days & Sun. off for OC so I'll just bring it there.


----------



## goldenrose (Dec 5, 2010)

*white background*

better than I thought-


----------



## tocarmar (Dec 5, 2010)

Very Nice Rose!!! Good Growing!! 
I have 3 seedling FDKs', I am hoping at least one is Black!! 1 is big enough to bloom but I think it will be next year!! I have around 15 in the alliance, w/ 5 blooming size..


----------



## Kavanaru (Dec 5, 2010)

tocarmar said:


> I have around 15 in the alliance, w/ 5 blooming size..


 :drool: photos photos photos photos photos oke:


----------



## Kavanaru (Dec 5, 2010)

goldenrose said:


> better than I thought-



:clap::drool::clap: GORGEOUS!!! :drool::clap::drool:


----------



## Rick (Dec 5, 2010)

I like those dark flowers. Closer to black!!

I should just go Goth


----------



## Yoyo_Jo (Dec 5, 2010)

Just scrumptious color!! :clap::drool:


----------



## SlipperFan (Dec 5, 2010)

You have a good one, Rose!


----------



## NYEric (Dec 5, 2010)

Thanx.


----------



## Jorch (Dec 6, 2010)

Never a bad one from this cross!! :clap:


----------



## Clark (Dec 7, 2010)

Really very jealous...


----------



## toddybear (Dec 8, 2010)

Never heard of this intergeneric....how funky!


----------



## goldenrose (Dec 17, 2010)

*Update!*

All 16 flowers are open and along came a bonus I didn't expect - a wonderful fragrance!


----------



## NYEric (Dec 17, 2010)

Thanx!  Now I'm really jealous!


----------



## Erythrone (Dec 17, 2010)

beautiful velvety flowers!


----------



## SlipperFan (Dec 17, 2010)

Wow -- what a display!


----------



## JeanLux (Dec 18, 2010)

Beautiful!!!! Jean


----------



## biothanasis (Dec 18, 2010)

Superb!!!!! Well done Rose..


----------

