# Leaf markings



## Alex (Sep 27, 2020)

A bit off topic in that this is a Cymbidium, but for me this is by far the most expert and knowledgeable orchid forum out there so I’d love your collective opinion anyway. I bought this Cymbidium goeringii a short while ago, and saw these markings on some of the leaves, which otherwise look normal. The obvious question: could they be viral? Any views welcome, and thank you.


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## SouthPark (Sep 28, 2020)

Alex ------ when it comes to the word 'could' ...... yes .... it 'could' be virus-related. But, then again, it might not be. The main ways to get a high certainty of being virus related is by seeing whether flowers have particular deformations or patterns - consistent patterns, like white or other colour streaky patches in tepals. Or if the orchid consistently tests 'positive' for one or more viruses. Orchids grown outdoors can have their leaves blemished by lots of things. I'm thinking that ---- as long as the orchid's leaves look ok in general ------ then don't worry about it. There is always the option to do some virus testing though. Or to wait --- and check out the flowers when it comes flowering time.


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## NYEric (Sep 28, 2020)

If the color is true, the leaves look very light, from sun.


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## eds (Sep 28, 2020)

I've seen similar leaf scraping from insect pests (tiny caterpillars) or small slugs and snails.


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## Alex (Oct 2, 2020)

Thank you all. Reassuring, but I’ll keep an eye on it of course. NY Eric, I agree the leaves are very pale, they were like that when I received it a few weeks ago. I’m not growing it in a high light set up and I’ll feed it too, so hopefully that will improve.

Cheers,

Alex


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## Hien (Oct 2, 2020)

My thought is nothing in this world whether animals or plants which do not have virus or bacteria in them, it just some virus & bacteria are deleterious and show obvious symptom while others are either contribute to the health of the hosts or neutral.


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## jokerpass (Oct 2, 2020)

I have a collection of Japanese Cymbidium goeringii (all coloured varieites and they are all budding now). The picture was taken in the spring (May 2020). The colour of the leaves of your C. goeringii are too light. A well grown C. goeringii should have dark leaves. I would keep an eye on the marking to make sure that it doesn't spread.


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## jokerpass (Oct 2, 2020)

Alex, for C. goeringii, you cannot feed it for the 1st year when you receive it. You can only feed it second year of growng. The more you feed, the quicker it dies. C. goeringii has very specific cultural requirements. My Japanese C. goeringii vendor told me if you grow C. goeringii like Western orchids, including your Standard and Miniature Cymbidiums = 100% kill. It is very complicated to culture C. goeringii. 

There are 3 elements in growing orchids: watering techniques, light, and temp. C. goeringii is a seasonal grower, so I adjust these 3 elements every season, so there are 4 growing conditions throughout the year. Right now, they are part one of the autumn protocol and will switch to part 2 of the autumn protocol before they are subjected to the winter protocol. 

Just to give you an idea how complicated C. goeringii is, here are the temp requirements throughout the year:

April-Mid June= daily low 10C, daily high 25C
Mid June-Mid Sept = daily low 23, daily high 28 (over 30C is okay)=Asian summer. Flower buds are induced and formed in the middle of the summer, you should see flower buds from end of July until end of October.
Mid Sept-end of Oct = daily low 15C, daily high 23C
early Nov to winter solstice = daily low 10C, daily high 15C
winter solstice to end of March=daily low 0C, daily high 14C (cannot exceed 14C; otherwise bud will blast), minimum 50 days consecutively daily low below 7C is required; otherwise, the flower buds will blast. Blooms from end of Feb to mid April.

All year round, humidity must be 50%-70%.


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## Ozpaph (Oct 3, 2020)

it looks like virus; especially if the streaks become black/necrotic. Test it.


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## NYEric (Oct 5, 2020)

I think it looks like snail damage. ??? Little sneaky buggers!


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## Alex (Oct 6, 2020)

Thanks all again. Here are a few more photos of the leaves. I agree it is very pale, hopefully it will improve (I’ve only had it a few weeks). Also, thank you jokerpass for the very detailed cultural info - very helpful. 

thanks,

Alex


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## Alex (Oct 6, 2020)

I should say the one thing that seems odd and potentially not in keeping with virus is that all of these marks I’ve shown are on different adult leaves but at more or less the same spot (a third if the way up or so), and there are no marks elsewhere on any leaves - only in this area. No marks further out towards the leaf tip at all. So, could they represent a nutritional issue? Maybe some deficiency at a particular time point that affected how the leaves grew for a certain period?


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## BrucherT (Oct 6, 2020)

jokerpass said:


> I have a collection of Japanese Cymbidium goeringii (all coloured varieites and they are all budding now). The picture was taken in the spring (May 2020). The colour of the leaves of your C. goeringii are too light. A well grown C. goeringii should have dark leaves. I would keep an eye on the marking to make sure that it doesn't spread. View attachment 22487


Would love to hear your methods to grow, where you get the kanuma, etc. you have the nicest ones I’ve seen in the U.S. I struggle mightily with my one and am longing to be a good grower of goeringii and kanran. I did succeed in spiking quiebiense this year...and then found the flowers knocked off days before blooming.


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## jokerpass (Oct 6, 2020)

Brucher: I only follow exactly what my Japanese Cymbidium vendor and the Cymbidium goeringii protocol books tell to do. I follow it as precisely as possible. Since the weather pattern is very different in Toronto, Canada than Tokyo, Japan, I had to do try my best to get the conditions as close as Japan for these Cymbidiums. First, I only use Japanese Cymbidum Mix ONLY, no exception and no substition. The Mix is composed of Hard Kanuma (better quality Kanuma than regular Kanuma), baked akadama (better quality akadama than regular akadama), and Satsuma. This potting mix (premixed in a big) was purchased in Japan. Unfornately, you cannot find this kind of Mix in North America (US/Canada) and Europe. To grow C. goeringii well, 4 growing conditions ARE REQUIRED adjusted/changed according to season. It is very complicated and very hard to explain in a few sentences, but just give you an idea, here is a quick summary of the conditions:

Spring (after flowering): End of March to Mid June, daily low temp 10C, daily high 25C, water once every 6-8 days, morning sun only
Summer: Mid June to Mid Sept, daily low 23C, daily high 28C (Can go above 30C), water once every 6 days only after 7pm, the later the better, morning sun only, shadier location than Spring.
Fall: Mid Sept to early Nov, daily high 23C, daily low 15C, water once every 9 days, morning sun only, same amount as spring
Fall: early Nov to Winter Solstice: daily low 10C, daily high 15C, water once every 10 days, underlight in a basement
Winter solsitce to end of March: daily low 0C, daily high 14C. Water once every 14 days, underlight in a basement.
To bloom, from winter solstice, for 50 days straight (yes, straight, no exception), daily low must be below 7C (lower the better), but must be above 0C Daily high CANNOT Exceed 14C. Water during the warmest time of day.
Humidity: ALL YEAR is 50%-70% humidity.

Here are the flower buds for this year (half of my growing collection). There are 21 flower buds in 4 Cymbidium goeringii plants.


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## Elite Orchids (Oct 7, 2020)

jokerpass said:


> Brucher: I only follow exactly what my Japanese Cymbidium vendor and the Cymbidium goeringii protocol books tell to do. I follow it as precisely as possible. Since the weather pattern is very different in Toronto, Canada than Tokyo, Japan, I had to do try my best to get the conditions as close as Japan for these Cymbidiums. First, I only use Japanese Cymbidum Mix ONLY, no exception and no substition. The Mix is composed of Hard Kanuma (better quality Kanuma than regular Kanuma), baked akadama (better quality akadama than regular akadama), and Satsuma. This potting mix (premixed in a big) was purchased in Japan. Unfornately, you cannot find this kind of Mix in North America (US/Canada) and Europe. To grow C. goeringii well, 4 growing conditions ARE REQUIRED adjusted/changed according to season. It is very complicated and very hard to explain in a few sentences, but just give you an idea, here is a quick summary of the conditions:
> 
> Spring (after flowering): End of March to Mid June, daily low temp 10C, daily high 25C, water once every 6-8 days, morning sun only
> Summer: Mid June to Mid Sept, daily low 23C, daily high 28C (Can go above 30C), water once every 6 days only after 7pm, the later the better, morning sun only, shadier location than Spring.
> ...


thanks for sharing - we are unable to get the media you specify in Europe - what would you recommend as the closest alternative?? medium size pumice with power bark?? 50/50 mix? thank you


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## jokerpass (Oct 7, 2020)

I have seen people using 50% pumice (Kanuma or Satsuma) and 50% bark. From what I have seen, it is a mixed bag. Some C. goeringii do well and some don't. However, the ones that do survive, they don't bloom well.


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