# Mealy Bugs (I think) - Please HELP!



## Chris (Nov 15, 2008)

I first noticed the problem when I saw the bottom leaf turning yellow, and when I peeled back the leaves to look in-between, I noticed a white substance that looked like toothpaste. There was a bug - I think it was a bug, it wasn't really moving around much - with white, hairy whiskers. 

Please tell me if you agree with the diagnosis and recommendations for treating. I'm new at orchids, and I'm really scared. I need a lot of specific directions. I don't want to lose my plants. Please help me guys (and girls)! 

I've included some pictures, but my camera struggled to really get a good close up. 









I have about 15 paphs, but this is the only one I've seen a problem on (so far...) Do you recommend that I treat the others as well? Also, is it good advice to repot everything? Again, I'm really at a loss here. If it seems like I'm freaking out, it's because I am. But I know this in the long run will help boost my confidence. Thanks again!


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Nov 15, 2008)

I can't really see from the photo's, but from your description I know its mealies...welcome to the bane of paph growers. There are all kinds of remedies...ranging from really expensive (Enstar) to really cheap (isopropyl rubbing alcohol)...all work, but its a never ending battle. You just have to be vigilant...although I am never vigilant enough. The shorter acting the poison (isopropyl, pyrethrin) the more frequently you have to use it...but longer acting inseciticides can lull you into feeling safe about it...you still have to check..all the time. Take care, Eric


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## Hien (Nov 15, 2008)

How close are the plants, growing together?
-I had plants put on different ends of the table, and the mealies actually crawled from one to the other (I saw them travelled across the table because it is a black surface)
-So you may have to treat all of them, then separate this plant from the rest.


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## P-chan (Nov 15, 2008)

Just keep hitting the spots with a Q-Tip dipped in rubbing alcohol. Check every day. Keep at it for a few weeks. Eventually, you'll have it under control.


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## Chris (Nov 15, 2008)

Do the roots get the treatment, too? Should I use rubbing alcohol [or other product] on the roots and the leaves while I am repotting? 

Or do I just apply alcohol on the bugs and in-between the leaves and then wait a few days to repot and spray the roots with Physan like when I normally repot?


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## Chris (Nov 15, 2008)

Yes, the plans are all growing in the same vicinity. Pots are essentially touching.


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## Corbin (Nov 15, 2008)

I can't really see in the photos but your description is very familiar. I would say you have mealy bugs. First I would isolate the plant from the others. Second get some Q-tips and alcohol. Dip the Q-tip in the alcohol and press it down in the base of the leaf. It will kill the varmints. Third check all your plants isolating and treating all that you find. 

It is true that the mealy bugs will hide out in the medium. I never repotted mine. I just poured a little alcohol down in the pot around the plant. 

A second solution is to get some systemic poison and spray the plants. It will be absorbed by the plant and will kill anything that eats on the plant. Mealy bugs are just one of the things you have to deal with in this hobby. I used Bayer Rose and Bloom in a spray bottle. It is a week solution (less that 1% of the “active ingredient” ) that you can used in an enclosed space. Still you want to follow all the precautions listed on the bottle. Just make sure you spray all the plants twice as they recommend. There are other products out there but most of them are pretty powerful and require a lot more in the way of precautions. 

Also, if you type in mealy bugs in the search you will find many threads dealing with this problem and a lot of information for dealing with the critters. 

Good luck


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## Hien (Nov 15, 2008)

Chris said:


> Yes, the plans are all growing in the same vicinity. Pots are essentially touching.


 If the pots are touching as you describe, and if you have this particular plant w/ the other long enough, even if you don't see anything on other plants at this point, they may have been infected already.


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## Elena (Nov 15, 2008)

First, take a few deep breaths  Mealies are tiresome buggers but don't panic just yet!

Personally I found that (as long as you have a small collection) the most effective way to get rid of these was to both remove any visible bugs manually using a Q tip soaked in alcohol (and keep checking for them constantly) as well as treating the plants with a course of systemic pesticide as instructed on the label. 

Good luck!


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## NYEric (Nov 16, 2008)

If you see one- you have more!  I hate mealies!


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## Chris (Nov 16, 2008)

Last night I selectively applied alcohol with a cotton q-tip to the affected areas. I will keep my eyes open for touch-ups and plan to repot everything along with a good spraying. Thanks so much for all of the helpful advice! 

Follow-up: In the tray where I set my seedlings, this morning I noticed several dead bugs curled up in a ball. 





Could this have been the source of the mealies, or is it a separate bug the alcohol also killed? Can anyone identify this critter?


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## biothanasis (Nov 16, 2008)

I can only wish you good luck... I do not have any idea on how you can treat your plants, but I see that you got plenty of help...


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## SlipperFan (Nov 16, 2008)

Another method (yes, isopropyl, or rubbing alcohol) is a 60% solution in a spray bottle. You can spray down into the joints and let the spray drip down into the roots. It evaporates pretty fast, but don't spray the plant in the sun. The only part of the plant that seems to be harmed by isopropyl alcohol is the flowers (and buds).


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## Gilda (Nov 16, 2008)

I hate mealies, and find they can weaken a small paph quick, because they hide so well in the tight leaf axils. You have got to keep one step ahead them or your plants will suffer greatly ! Good Luck !


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## goldenrose (Nov 16, 2008)

Hien said:


> If the pots are touching as you describe, and if you have this particular plant w/ the other long enough, even if you don't see anything on other plants at this point, they may have been infected already.



... not necessarily, some paphs the mealies don't like as much as others. The most expensive complexes is what they like best!


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## biothanasis (Nov 16, 2008)

goldenrose said:


> ...The most expensive complexes is what they like best!



They must be gourmet guys...


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## TADD (Nov 16, 2008)

Fire works well also...... Not so good for the plants but a great killer for mealies....


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## Renegayde (Nov 16, 2008)

SlipperFan said:


> The only part of the plant that seems to be harmed by isopropyl alcohol is the flowers (and buds).




Dot

LOL where were you before I took a q-tip dipped in alcohol to the bud of my suspected mealy infected plant

Todd


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## Kevin (Nov 16, 2008)

I can't quite tell from your last pic, but that just looks like a sow bug or a centipede. Essentially harmless - at least compared to mealies!


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## cnycharles (Nov 17, 2008)

welcome! in a small collection, it may be easier to try and get rid of them than with a big one. I would repot everything. either use new pots or get a water spray wand that you can hook up to a sink or if it's warm outdoors. Gently spray out every crevice in each plant after taking off any dead or dying leaf/root material. set the plants aside to dry, after a little while you'll probably see more white spots moving around; blast them again. do a few times and then use new potting material and pots or blast clean the pots as well. a key thing to do is to clean or change the tray or shelving that your plants are sitting in/on, and they can be cleaned with a household spray cleanser that will kill any crawlies that are moving around away from the plants. they are very good at moving around and hiding where there aren't any plants. if the trays and shelves can be blasted with water as well then that can be done instead of chemicals, just trying to eliminate a backup population of bugs. if you see tiny white cottony masses here and there near where your plants are, those are usually egg masses. a mix of mineral oil, a few drops of mild dish soap and water can be used for contact spraying of the bugs, provided that the plants won't be in bright light or extreme temps which can allow the mix to burn plants. this won't poison the bugs but can help to smother them. I think it is a few teaspoons of oil, a few drops of soap and a liter/quart of water, shaken periodically to keep the mix together (think salad dressing). using lukewarm water can help the oil mix into the water better.

after that, if you would like you can use a systemic insecticide, some come in granule form that can be applied to the top of the pot or drenched into the pot. mealybugs have that white, waxy material that often makes it tough for chemicals to get to their body which can keep them from being exposed to the insecticide. 

when you get new plants, it may be a good idea to keep it isolated from your hopefully clean collection, repot and give it the same treatment of blasting and cleaning that you did with your other plants. even if you don't think there are any bugs it's a good practice to put plants into potting material that works in your collection, because mix that grows good plants in greenhouse conditions may not work well under lights or on a windowsill.

hope this helps, good luck!
charles


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## cnycharles (Nov 17, 2008)

Chris said:


> Could this have been the source of the mealies, or is it a separate bug the alcohol also killed? Can anyone identify this critter?



fast glance looks like a millipede, they often are found in potting mix that is breaking down, they eat that kind of material. you can find them often in the woods, under rocks, eating usually decaying material though they might sometimes chew on root tips but that is just a guess. too bad you can't train them to eat mealybug eggs..  if they are around it's probably a good sign that your potting mix needs to be changed because it's breaking down enough for them to have something to eat


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## NYEric (Nov 17, 2008)

Milli, and Centipedes eat fungus gnat larva. Mealies kill and spread disease among plants! At the Altamonte Slipper Symposium, one of the anouncers went on about using Neem Oil in solution. I'm ordering some this week.


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## Bob in Albany N.Y. (Nov 17, 2008)

Eric, you do know that neem oil smells like onions and garlic. That smell will stay with your collection for at least a few days after spraying. In your case that means you whole apartment will smell bad.


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## biothanasis (Nov 17, 2008)

Aromatherapy???oke:oke:


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## nikv (Nov 17, 2008)

I've been using Neem Oil for the past five years and don't think it smells bad. It's a bit pungeant, but I wouldn't say it's like onions and garlic. Something different although I'm not sure how to identify it. It works great on my pests and it won't hurt beneficial insects such as ladybugs. And it won't hurt kitties or humans either. FYI.


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## goldenrose (Nov 17, 2008)

nikv said:


> I've been using Neem Oil for the past five years and don't think it smells bad. It's a bit pungeant, but I wouldn't say it's like onions and garlic. Something different although I'm not sure how to identify it. It works great on my pests and it won't hurt beneficial insects such as ladybugs. And it won't hurt kitties or humans either. FYI.


I don't think it smells bad either, not sure how I'd describe it.


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## Gilda (Nov 17, 2008)

I use a Neem extract concentrate from Lowe's that has the fragrance of oranges/citrus....I think it smells good. Makes my phal leaves shiny ,too !


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## Yoyo_Jo (Nov 17, 2008)

I find the smell of Neem oil sort of indescribable; I don't find it unpleasant, but it doesn't really remind me of anything else that I can put my finger on.

I've heard it touted as having anti-fungal properties as well. It's sold here primarily as a "leaf cleaner". A gardner I know swears by it for use on her roses; I know, I know, unrelated.


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## Elena (Nov 17, 2008)

My bottle of neem oil definitely smells of stale garlic, not nice  Mercifully it's not that strong and the smell disappears fairly quickly.


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## NYEric (Nov 17, 2008)

Umm, neem oil smells like 'neem oil'! Heck, if it smelled like onions and garlic, maybe some chickies would be lured in looking for home cookin! :rollhappy:


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## SlipperFan (Nov 17, 2008)

Renegayde said:


> Dot
> 
> LOL where were you before I took a q-tip dipped in alcohol to the bud of my suspected mealy infected plant
> 
> Todd


Ouch!!!


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Nov 17, 2008)

I think it smells like durian....which is OK, since I love durian and therefore like the smell...but I only use neem when my plants are outdoors...and not often, since its never worked for me...or at least, no more than plain old Sunspray oil. Take care, Eric


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## Corbin (Nov 18, 2008)

Gilda said:


> I use a Neem extract concentrate from Lowe's that has the fragrance of oranges/citrus....I think it smells good. Makes my phal leaves shiny ,too !



Does it have a particular name or brand name?


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## emydura (Nov 18, 2008)

Mealy bugs are bad news. The worst pest in my opinion. If you find mealy bugs on a couple of your plants than it is almost certainly spread throughout your collection. If you have a large collection then you will have to spray a systemic pesticide of some sort. 

A few years back I had mealy bugs in plague proportions. Nothing I used would work. It was getting to a point where I was re-considering my hobby. Then I noticed an Australian website that said the best way of getting rid of mealy bugs was to mix White Oil with the systemic pesticide Rogor. Both pesticides will kill the mealy bugs although the main function of the white oil is to assist the plant in absorbing the systemic Rogor. Well, it worked fantastic. Killed all the mealy bugs and I didn't have a problem for a few years. Unfortunately the little buggers are back so I'm going to have to spray again.

A few things to note -

* you need to spray at least 3 times in succession a week or so apart as the sprays only kill the adults not the eggs. So if you only spray once, the eggs will hatch shortly after and you will be right back to where you started.
* Rogor stinks and takes forever to dissapate. It has a real toxic smell to it as well. Truly awful.
* Some people will not use white oil as they feel it will damage there plants. I haven't found it to be a problem. You should only use it in cool weather. In anycase try it out on a couple of unimportant plants before spraying your whole collection.

If you have mealy bugs and nothing is working, consider mixing rogor and white oil. It is guaranteed to work.

David


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## NYEric (Nov 18, 2008)

What is "white oil"?


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## emydura (Nov 18, 2008)

NYEric said:


> What is "white oil"?



It is a petroleum oil. It is widely used in Australia on all sorts of of pests. I assume there is an American equivalent.

http://www.yates.com.au/products/pest-control/insects-concentrates/yates-white-oil-insecticide/

David


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## NYEric (Nov 18, 2008)

ok, thanx.


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## cnycharles (Nov 18, 2008)

probably mineral oil, mostly found in drug stores to aid in 'digestive slippage' among other things (or could be what's sold as horticultural oil)


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## paphioboy (Nov 18, 2008)

> I think it smells like durian....



Neem oil smells like durian..? :drool: :drool:


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## Yoyo_Jo (Nov 19, 2008)

paphioboy said:


> Neem oil smells like durian..? :drool: :drool:



So...is that a good thing then?

When I googled durian, one of the definitions I found said it smells like stinky feet. :rollhappy:


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Nov 19, 2008)

It all depends on if you like durian....its illegal to eat it in public in Singapore, and I've read that major hotels in Malaysia ban its open consumption, or at least disapprove of it. Its one of those acquired tastes. In my family, my oldest son and I love it.....the rest of my family abhors it and is horrified even by its mention. My niece summed up its flavor very well..."onion icecream!". If you've never tried it, its worth it...just for the experience. At least in NYC, its available in the Asian markets, frozen. rather than getting a whole one, which can easily weigh 10 lbs, the cleaned durian flesh costs about $3, and its no work. Then at least you can say that you tried it! Take care, Eric


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## paphreek (Nov 19, 2008)

Corbin said:


> Does it have a particular name or brand name?



I use Schultz Fungicide 3. It is clarified neem oil. I don't know why it is touted as a fungicide. I've heard it has anti-fungal properties, but I find it far more useful as an insecticide. I like it better than some of the other neem oils because it is clarified and therefore doesn't clump into chunks at lower temps.


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## NYEric (Nov 20, 2008)

Eric, we have to go out and eat in Manhattan Chinatown one night, mmmm snails...


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## Chris (Nov 25, 2008)

Thanks to everyone's help, I am pleased to report that my plants are poised to make a successful recovery. Here's what I did:

1) Rubbing alcohol on a q-tip 
2) Cleaned my growing space with bleach
2) Bayer Dual Action Rose and Flower Insect Killer 
3) Repot

As a very novice grower, I was hardly prepared to identify let alone battle mealybugs. Now that I've worked through this, I'm a more confident grower. BTW it was also my first time repotting! 

Chris


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Nov 25, 2008)

Oh....I love those snails! In garlic and black beans............!


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## NYEric (Nov 26, 2008)

Pan fried shrimp, ha-gow, ... :drool:


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## wilbeck (Jun 9, 2009)

If you find them out on a leaf, it gives one great pleasure to smash the little bas...ds with your finger.


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## NYEric (Jun 9, 2009)

I'm glad this thread started back up. After treating through winter and early spring w/ Neem & Merit 75 combo solution I checked a couple of weeks ago and found colonies of mealies deep in dead leaves of 4-5 phrags. I recommend everyone go through their collection before it gets warm and they start to spread.
BTW-Neem does smell like shallots!


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## Yoyo_Jo (Jun 9, 2009)

Yes, I've noticed a lot more of the little *&!!$##@'s recently.


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## NYEric (Jun 10, 2009)

Don't play w/ them, treat seriously! 
BTW Wilbeck, I don't handle them because that could spread them!


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## wilbeck (Jun 11, 2009)

Hi Eric--What is the mechanism of spread of the pests after crushing one with a finger? Are they like the broomsticks in "Sorcerer's Apprentice?"


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## NYEric (Jun 11, 2009)

The eggs are as fine as dust; they can drift off and spread, seriously.


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## cnycharles (Jun 11, 2009)

NYEric said:


> Don't play w/ them, treat seriously!
> BTW Wilbeck, I don't handle them because that could spread them!



you could try using the micro vacuum cleaner attachments that are used for cleaning computer keyboards and things like that to try and vacuum the bugs away...


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## Yoyo_Jo (Jun 11, 2009)

Jabbing the big ones with a toothpick is my favorite method of destruction, followed by alcohol swabbing of the little buggers.


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