# Variation, Forma and ???



## PHRAG (Aug 25, 2006)

Ok, what makes a forma a forma? And what makes a variation a variation? Are they the same thing? Why is my philippinense a "frma album" while my equestris is a "var. alba"? 

And why is one alba and one album?

Is that enough questions?


----------



## kentuckiense (Aug 25, 2006)

var. refers to a population that displays certain traits. For instance, malipoense var. jackii refers to a population of malipoense that has narrower lateral petals and less coloration on the staminode.

f. refers to an individual that has 'sprung up' within a population. For example, these is no colony of flavum besseaes. One simply "appeared."

Forma vs. formum: I think it has to do with the masculinity of the generic name. All slipper generic epithets end in -i*um*, so for slippers it should always be form*um*.

That's how I understand those things, at least.


----------



## Heather (Aug 25, 2006)

kentuckiense said:


> Forma vs. formum: I think it has to do with the masculinity of the generic name. All slipper generic epithets end in -i*um*, so for slippers it should always be form*um*.
> 
> That's how I understand those things, at least.



Same with alba vs. album. Because _Paphiopedilum_ is masculine, all slippers should be referred to as album, instead of alba.


----------



## lienluu (Aug 25, 2006)

Heather said:


> Same with alba vs. album. Because _Paphiopedilum_ is masculine, all slippers should be referred to as album, instead of alba.



I believe _Paphiopedium _is a second declension neuter noun.


----------



## Heather (Aug 25, 2006)

lienluu said:


> I believe _Paphiopedium _is a second declension neuter noun.



Uh, thank you Dr. 
I think.


----------



## PHRAG (Aug 25, 2006)

Lien, you make my head hurt.


----------



## gore42 (Aug 25, 2006)

This is interesting... it was also my understanding that -e and -um were neuter suffixes. However, I note that Guido Braem (at least as quoted here: http://www.nascentorchids.com/color_designations.html , see Q/A at the bottom) seems to think it is masculine. I wonder if he was mis-quoted, or whether he meant that the gender is masculine in German, not Latin...

- Matt


----------



## lienluu (Aug 25, 2006)

gore42 said:


> This is interesting... it was also my understanding that -e and -um were neuter suffixes. However, I note that Guido Braem (at least as quoted here: http://www.nascentorchids.com/color_designations.html , see Q/A at the bottom) seems to think it is masculine. I wonder if he was mis-quoted, or whether he meant that the gender is masculine in German, not Latin...
> 
> - Matt




Aside from 2nd declension neuter, the other -um endings are accusative and genative cases for various declensions and genders, but none are nominative


----------



## PHRAG (Aug 25, 2006)

And yet another thread goes over my head in record time. At least Zach knows how to phrase things so my elementary school intellect can follow along. :rollhappy:


----------



## Mahon (Aug 25, 2006)

Yes, I will say that the '_-um_' in _Paphiopedilum_ and all related genera are in fact under Second Declension Neuter, in Nominative Case... I think that the epithet _Paphiopedilum_ and realted genera can combine with the specific epithet correctly, which can be any Latin noun... _Paph. sangii_, _P. jackii_, _P. malipoense_, _P. hangianum_... I think this is right... (?)

-PM


----------



## lienluu (Aug 26, 2006)

gore42 said:


> This is interesting... it was also my understanding that -e and -um were neuter suffixes. However, I note that Guido Braem (at least as quoted here: http://www.nascentorchids.com/color_designations.html , see Q/A at the bottom) seems to think it is masculine. I wonder if he was mis-quoted, or whether he meant that the gender is masculine in German, not Latin...
> 
> - Matt



There are a number of errors/inaccuracies on that page.

For example, it states: "Thus it is correct to use 'album, virens, aureum, etc.' as opposed to 'alba, viride, aurea, etc.'"

However, under the photo of the P. stonei, it is labelled as "Paphiopedilum stonei var. alba"

Also, that photo of the Paphiopedilum emersonii f. luteum has been digitally yellowed out.

Here is a copy of the true image, taken by Sam Tsui, the former owner of that plant:


----------



## Marco (Aug 26, 2006)

lienluu said:


> Aside from 2nd declension neuter, the other -um endings are accusative and genative cases for various declensions and genders, but none are nominative



you guys are giving me headaches and flashbacks about the days in high school when i was putzing around in german class and licking gummy bears till they got sticky and throwing them on the ceilling until they got stuck!

I think thats why i did so bad in german damn gummy bears. ach ya!

Lien - thats a sweet emersonii f. luteum


----------



## lienluu (Aug 26, 2006)

Marco said:


> you guys are giving me headaches and flashbacks about the days in high school when i was putzing around in german class and licking gummy bears till they got sticky and throwing them on the ceilling until they got stuck!
> 
> I think thats why i did so bad in german damn gummy bears. ach ya!
> 
> Lien - thats a sweet emersonii f. luteum




Unzählige Fragen, die nach einer Antwort suchen. Doch ist es am Ende nicht immer wieder die gleiche Frage, und immer wieder die gleiche Antwort? Ball ist rund, Spiel dauert neunzig Minuten. Soviel ist schon mal klar. Alles andere ist Theorie. Und ab!


----------



## Marco (Aug 26, 2006)

lienluu said:


> Unzählige Fragen, die nach einer Antwort suchen. Doch ist es am Ende nicht immer wieder die gleiche Frage, und immer wieder die gleiche Antwort? Ball ist rund, Spiel dauert neunzig Minuten. Soviel ist schon mal klar. Alles andere ist Theorie. Und ab!



Damn you!

umm....something said...something something round ball play any minute something something after all its just a theory? something something

The only thing i remember is "woher ist die kloset?" and "ich habe keine idee" Yeah!

ok i need some advil now


----------



## Heather (Aug 26, 2006)

Ja, das ist gut! 
(That's it for me. I took a year too but kept getting confused between French and Norwegian.)


----------



## likespaphs (Aug 26, 2006)

i just can't wait for the lowii aureum...


----------



## gore42 (Aug 26, 2006)

> Unzählige Fragen, die nach einer Antwort suchen. Doch ist es am Ende nicht immer wieder die gleiche Frage, und immer wieder die gleiche Antwort? Ball ist rund, Spiel dauert neunzig Minuten. Soviel ist schon mal klar. Alles andere ist Theorie. Und ab!



LOL - That was a pretty good movie! One of the few German films I've seen in the past several years that I really enjoyed. I thought Franke Potante (sp?) was pretty decent in the American films she was in to...

- Matthew


----------



## ScottMcC (Aug 27, 2006)

lienluu said:


> Unzählige Fragen, die nach einer Antwort suchen. Doch ist es am Ende nicht immer wieder die gleiche Frage, und immer wieder die gleiche Antwort? Ball ist rund, Spiel dauert neunzig Minuten. Soviel ist schon mal klar. Alles andere ist Theorie. Und ab!



Bitte bitte lauf lauf!!!

I love that movie (Lola Rennt/Run Lola Run for those who have no idea what we're talking about).

The quote translates approximately to "uncountable questions, that people are trying to answer. But in the end, it's all the same questions, and the same answers. The ball is round, the game lasts 90 minutes, this is certain. Everything else is theory. Go!"


----------



## lienluu (Aug 27, 2006)

ScottMcC said:


> Bitte bitte lauf lauf!!!
> 
> I love that movie (Lola Rennt/Run Lola Run for those who have no idea what we're talking about).
> 
> The quote translates approximately to "uncountable questions, that people are trying to answer. But in the end, it's all the same questions, and the same answers. The ball is round, the game lasts 90 minutes, this is certain. Everything else is theory. Go!"



I LOVE that movie and esp. love this opening monolog!


----------



## Jon in SW Ohio (Aug 27, 2006)

I always wondered why it was Paph. malipoense and not malipoensis...I thought since it was named for Malipo, -ensis was mandatory.

Jon
________
Yamaha golf car history


----------

