# What's a Cancerian to do?



## 2Toned (Oct 19, 2013)

Orchids are just one of Creations muses for me. As a youngster of 4 or 5 I was fascinated by... everything! As such, I had collections of birds, birds' eggs, butterflies, cicadas, lizards, frogs, native orchids, native fish, etc...

Today, I keep a modest 7 aquaria. Here are some of the inhabitants:


























They're like aquatic orchids to my eyes  hope you enjoy them, as well.


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## 2Toned (Oct 19, 2013)

*Segue*

I've also been working with native mosses, acclimating them to submersed growth. What do you think?


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## 2Toned (Oct 19, 2013)

*Crusty ole Crab!*

The small things fascinate & beguile....


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## gonewild (Oct 19, 2013)

2Toned said:


> I've also been working with native mosses, acclimating them to submersed growth. What do you think?



How long have they been submerged?
Are they growing or onlt existing?


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## goldenrose (Oct 19, 2013)

FANTASTIC!!!
In my eyes there's nothing modest about aquaria in which the caretaker maintains & breeds discus! Please tell us what the color varieties are! The crustaceans certainly are plentiful & colorful as well!


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## 2Toned (Oct 19, 2013)

gonewild said:


> How long have they been submerged?
> Are they growing or onlt existing?



Hi Lance, these mosses have acclimated really well and, at the time of pics, had been growing and thriving submersed for over 7 months. I'm finding that approximately 2/3 will adapt. The growth habit changes, sometimes considerably, but I find them wonderful new species to work with. 




goldenrose said:


> FANTASTIC!!!
> In my eyes there's nothing modest about aquaria in which the caretaker maintains & breeds discus! Please tell us what the color varieties are! The crustaceans certainly are plentiful & colorful as well!



Rose, you truly flatter me  I've kept discus on & off for 40 yrs with limited success until my move to my current home, which I FINALLY, settled on in July. The rainwater is a godsend! Add the the tannins in the inevitable leaf litter that accumulates in the tank, the water comes close to Amazonian. I bought the pair of Goldens (Louis & Marie) first, merely as canaries. However, 70 fry later ) I set up 2 more 3ft tanks, 1 for the fry to grow out & 1 for the gorgeous Checkered Pigeon Bloods, Helen & Troy. Unfortunately they succumbed to the dreaded erwinia of the aquarium, Camallanus worms. Insidious things! so hard to eradicate. Their life cycle is 4 weeks (the asian species) and our quarantine period is only 2 weeks. The importer is now following my regime and replaced Helen & Troy with Big Red (Super Melon) and his mate, The Divine Miss M! (Checkered Pigeon).

My last batch, now 6 mths old, numbered 120 with <5% mortality. I've been culling by giving away to young hobbyists and mentoring them with the keeping. I remember that it took me 6 months to save for my first discus in 1974, a German Red Turquoise. I've killed more than I care to mention. It's nice to pass them on & still be in touch.

Thank you, both. Tony


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## abax (Oct 19, 2013)

I've never seen such gorgeous Discus and the younguns' look very healthy
too. Discus are wonderful parents when conditions are right for them. The
moss garden is quite unexpected and really beautiful.


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## biothanasis (Oct 20, 2013)

Lovely aquascapes and fish!! I like the shrimps too


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## Rick (Oct 20, 2013)

A discus breeder:drool::drool:


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## Trithor (Oct 20, 2013)

A most interesting and lovely glimpse into another interest! Please post more!


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## goldenrose (Oct 20, 2013)

Keep it up Tony! Great job!


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## SlipperFan (Oct 20, 2013)

Beautiful mosses. And I love to watch fish -- they are so fascinating.

It looks like the shrimp are in a feeding frenzy.


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## NYEric (Oct 21, 2013)

Very cool stuff. I have a garden moss here I keep in water, I forget what type.


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## Linus_Cello (Oct 23, 2013)

Where did you get the discus from? I bought 1 more discus from Kenny's discus, and I won a $70 leopard eruption discus (both come friday). 

Do you have OEBT shrimp? I think the orange eyes are cool. I have some; they aren't as hardy as the cardinal shrimp.

Terry Root of OZ used to be a discus breeder; he thought his plants did extra well since he used the water from his discus tanks to water his paphs. You should try it.


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## gonewild (Oct 23, 2013)

2Toned said:


> Hi Lance, these mosses have acclimated really well and, at the time of pics, had been growing and thriving submersed for over 7 months. I'm finding that approximately 2/3 will adapt. The growth habit changes, sometimes considerably, but I find them wonderful new species to work with.



Very interesting!

Are you adding CO2 or nutrients for the moss?
What light levels does the moss get?

Are you collecting terrestrial mosses that grow near water or are some also arboreal?


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## 2Toned (Oct 23, 2013)

SlipperFan said:


> Beautiful mosses. And I love to watch fish -- they are so fascinating.
> 
> It looks like the shrimp are in a feeding frenzy.



Yes Dot, they're very keen on banana, which I feed to them once a week. Frenzied is exactly how they respond!



Linus_Cello said:


> Where did you get the discus from? I bought 1 more discus from Kenny's discus, and I won a $70 leopard eruption discus (both come friday).
> 
> Do you have OEBT shrimp? I think the orange eyes are cool. I have some; they aren't as hardy as the cardinal shrimp.
> 
> Terry Root of OZ used to be a discus breeder; he thought his plants did extra well since he used the water from his discus tanks to water his paphs. You should try it.



I purchased the fish from two retail outlets in Oz, one in Sydney that imports through Indonesia and the other closer to my home in the Hunter Valley that imports through Thailand. I visit each regularly hoping to discover a specimen with... _je ne sais quoi._ I hope your new purchases are what you're hoping for, as there's such variety within each strain, much like variability to found in paph hybrids.

I'm picking up my first 20 Tiger Shrimp in two days, some of which are orange eyed. I'm excited to be introducing these and beginning a new breeding project crossing them with my current line of white crystal shrimp with the objective of producing White Tigers.

As to using the tank water on my paphs - I'm going to make a point of doing so routinely and will let you know how the plants respond. Thank you for making the link to Terry 



gonewild said:


> Very interesting!
> 
> Are you adding CO2 or nutrients for the moss?
> What light levels does the moss get?
> ...



Lance, I don't "add" CO2 to my tanks, as I've devised a substrate that generates sufficient CO2 for most aquatic plants to thrive. I add little in the way of ferts, preferring macros to be supplied by fish waste. I do add magnesium sulphate, as my water is rain water, Ca is supplied in the sub. I also add micros in the form of seaweed extract at each water change.

Lighting varies widely! from <1 watt per gallon to >6wpg. No science, just pragmatism - whatever is at hand 

Collection is purely opportunistic, but mainly terrestrial. However, I recently came across a profusion of fallen trees covered in what I initially thought was a species I didn't have. However, a more thorough examination determined that is was one that grows around my home, but takes a very different form during the last stage of its life cycle. The nutrients from the decaying wood, the lower light levels and the higher humidity all providing optimal conditions for its growth.

Keeping discus for 40 yrs has endowed me with an intuitive discernment for quality... similar to the skills of senior ST members who's replies I read and reflect on while referring to the new pic postings. In time I believe I can build my appreciation for quality in paph breeding to a similar level as that which I've acquired in discus breeding by digesting the detailed replies of members who provide explanations/descriptions/cross references/etc... Thank you to everyone who makes this possible for all us rookies.


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## 2Toned (Oct 23, 2013)

Trithor said:


> A most interesting and lovely glimpse into another interest! Please post more!



Just for you 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gFKA5g8GZQ&feature=share&list=PLE0jRtaH3tT0XS4WxLOYpM1TuUV7Vpo0p


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## TyroneGenade (Oct 23, 2013)

2Toned said:


> Lance, I don't "add" CO2 to my tanks, as I've devised a substrate that generates sufficient CO2 for most aquatic plants to thrive.



Please share. I'm a big fan of planted aquariums.

The fissidens-like moss is really nice. It could be very useful in aquascaping.


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## Brabantia (Oct 24, 2013)

Incredible fishes. I have also some gouramis in an aquarium (140 L). Discus were always my dream but non compatible with the attention the orchids need. Orchids are time consuming...


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## Linus_Cello (Oct 24, 2013)

Brabantia said:


> Incredible fishes. I have also some gouramis in an aquarium (140 L). Discus were always my dream but non compatible with the attention the orchids need. Orchids are time consuming...



Yes and no. Wild discus are a lot of work (high water quality, etc). But if you get many of the highly bred ones (cobalt, blue diamond, pigeon blood, etc), they are more forgiving of water quality. If you can keep cardinal tetras, then you can keep discus.


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## gonewild (Oct 24, 2013)

TyroneGenade said:


> Please share. I'm a big fan of planted aquariums.



Yes please tell us about your substrate!


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## 2Toned (Oct 24, 2013)

*CO2 generating substrate*

As requested, here's the original post that I made on my favuorite Ozzie aquarium forum, Aquarium Life, and the link (http://www.aquariumlife.com.au/showthread.php/30650-Cheap-Sand-based-CO2-Generating-Sub) for those who are interested:

"Here's a recipe I've been using for 4-5yrs (now 8yrs) for a low cost, long life substrate that suits just about everything I've grown.

*
Propagating Sand (Brunnings $4.95 a bag)
Marble Chips/Oyster Shells
Blood & Bone
Laterite (optional, as the sand has a lot of clay in it)
Peat Moss (optional)
*
_Cover the base with 1-1.5cm unwashed propagating sand - straight from bag, heaps of clay
Sprinkle marble chips - 1 x handful per 30cm square
Sprinkle blood & bone - 1 x dessert spoonful per 30cm sq
Sprinkle laterite - 1/2 x handful per 30cm sq or lay cut and dried potters clay
Cover the lot with 3-4cm well washed propagating sand, don't want all that clay in the water column!
Cover with cling wrap and fill to desired level to work with plants._

The propagating sand is full of minerals and a fair bit of clay... that's why you can get away without using laterite. Coupled with the B&B for N & Ca, the gross feeding plants love it.

The marble chips help maintain ph balance, which is needed for efficient nutrient uptake, and provide an ongoing Ca source. It also acts as the carbon reserve, supplying CO2 as it dissolves. Oyster and other mollusk shells do the same and are the building blocks of aragonite.

The sand is fine grained for a substrate, which keeps all the crap from leaching into the water column. But it really encourages micro-organisms, worms, etc... and I find that the spiral (Malaysian) snails keep it really well aerated - not to mention the Corys rooting around.

In three years I've never had a problem with fouling or gas build up.

I've tried adding a fine layer of peat, but haven't noticed an appreciable difference either way.

The substrate in my shrimp tank is full of tubifex, which aerate it constantly and transfer nutrients up and down through it. My CRS/CBS seem to love the free treats they deliver.

Give it a go - even in an experimental tank."​
I might add that this sub is now in use by 00's of hobbyists and, as the thread on AL shows by its popularity, has proved its merit. The recipe was one I settled on after many years of trial & error and initially inspired by the writings of Diana Walstad, the renowned aquarist - thank you Diana!

I've since found, thanks to the work of another AL member and good friend, Mark Bear (Bardus), that increasing the depth of the sub to a total of 7-8cm gives the added benefit of a Deep Sand Bed that provides anaerobic bacteria the opportunity to convert nitrate to nitrogen & oxygen therefore, completing the final process in the *nitrogen cycle*. As such, and because I currently use rainwater in my tanks, I don't actually do water changes as part of my husbandry, just top up.

Cheers, Tony


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