# Paph thaianum now in the the USA



## s1214215 (Apr 9, 2011)

Hi Everyone.

Well, good news. A flask of Paph thaianum that I sent to the USA passed through USDA/Customs on Friday and now is legally in the USA. :clap:

I will be sending some more to a few people I have the flasks for, so you should be seeing some around in the future.

Brett


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## tenman (Apr 9, 2011)

Woohoo! Yea! Now, for the other species. When can we order stuff?


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## s1214215 (Apr 10, 2011)

Hhahah.. Tenman you will have to wait a little. I am not a nursery, so I source some flasks from friends nurseries and from nurseries in Taiwan. I am able to get more Paph thaianum at the end of May and some other species then. I will post something closer to then to see what people want.

Still for now this is a happy thing. The only sad point in not being able to send Vietnamese species. This is a problematic aread. I have emailed F&W about it, but no response as yet. Some species do grow in China. I was told Dr. Holger Perner has seen hangianum in-situ there. So I can not see how Vietnam can have a complete hold on it.

Well, anyway, getting thaianum to the USA is a good thing and a first step.

Brett


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## s1214215 (Apr 10, 2011)

I am about to send a second flask to make sure its all good with sending this species. I am confident I am on the right track though with sending paphs to the USA now.


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## Bob in Albany N.Y. (Apr 10, 2011)

Brett, I want to thank you for all of the correspondence, phone calls, time and expense that you have expended in order to help us here in the United States in order to ship paph. flask. that we can't legal obtain here. You are a true lover of paph. and a gentleman. Is there any chance you might be able at some future date to post a photo of one of the flasks? I'm interested to see how big they are in flask. Here in the U.S. in my humble opinion flasks are sold to early and the seedling are not strong enough to survive. Yet, places like Japan have hugh seedling in flask. Probable the largest I've seen in flask have come from Woodstream.


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## s1214215 (Apr 10, 2011)

Thanks Bob. 

I dont normally ship flasks other than to a few friends, but of late I have been able to get good paph flasks and when people on the forum approached me, I thought I'd do a few shipments of flasks to try and get some species into US collections. I am a big believer in conservation in collections as I see how ecosystems are being pillaged all the time. I wont get into that old chestnut again hahha.. My day job is working as an English teacher, so I dont get much time for running around after flasks except on weekends, but lucky for me Phyto and CITES open 6 days a week here.

I am in Thailand until the end of July and then move back to Australia. So while I am here, if I can get some species like thaianum to the USA, thats a little bit for conservation in my mind. Recently I was able to get the new and amazing species Bulbophyllum kubahense in flask for the first time and have sent that to some friends and am just getting one flask split so I can donate it to some botanic garden. I have friend who are currators at a few. http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/2435764447/

I will take some pics and post them in a few minutes.. I only have a phone camera at the moment though.. My regular camera is toast.

Brett


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## s1214215 (Apr 10, 2011)

Hi Bob

This is one of my own thaianum flasks I got from Taiwan. The Taiwanese are a-line breeding them for shape. The thaianum we get in Thailand (not commonly offered either) is of the normal form and in a whisky bottle. Sorry for the dodgy pic. My phone camera is not the best.






Brett


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## Bob in Albany N.Y. (Apr 10, 2011)

Thanks for the photo, my new friend. I'm sure that others on the forum will be sad to hear you will be moving to Australia shortly. I'm interested in all of the paph species we can't get here, but am not the best grower from flask. People like Pete and others are much better than I in growing from flask. Although, those seedlings look pretty darn, strong.


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## cnycharles (Apr 10, 2011)

Bob in Albany said:


> Thanks for the photo, my new friend. I'm sure that others on the forum will be sad to hear you will be moving to Australia shortly. I'm interested in all of the paph species we can't get here, but am not the best grower from flask. People like Pete and others are much better than I in growing from flask. Although, those seedlings look pretty darn, strong.



one of the members here sends some of his flasks or deflasked seedlings to a grower who can grow them up for him. might be an option since you know glen decker....


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## Bob in Albany N.Y. (Apr 10, 2011)

I do indeed know Glen but we never really clicked. Let me tell you about an experience that I had. Someone, who owns a orchid nursery in Hawaii offered to grow out some flasks for me at a certain fee per plant, per year that they stayed there. I know them and trusted them, as they grow out thousands of flasks per year. I sent 8 or 9 flask from Orchid Inn. They arrived and they stated that they were much smaller in size then they were used to. They stayed there three years. They sent back about 18 seedlings in total many of which looked liked they just came out of the flask. Now, don't misunderstand me, they didn't rip me off. They didn't even charge me a penny other then shipping. But losing $1,000 or more for the flasks has me (and my lovely wife) more then a little leery. So far only one plant has flowered and it was mismarked. The whole thing, left a bad feeling in my mouth. I really believe, they did their best but possible just separated them and they never got the care they needed. It was disappointing to say the least. Would I try again? Possible but on a smaller scale. Would my wife let me? I don't know!


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## cnycharles (Apr 10, 2011)

Bob in Albany said:


> Would my wife let me? I don't know!



hmmm, maybe not!


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## s1214215 (Apr 10, 2011)

Generally I have found deflasking not difficult, but then I have ideal conditions, a wardian case at 23 celcius and 90% humidity, with very good airflow. Heat stress is a huge killer for new seedlings out of flask I find. 

A friend of mine pots her seedlings and then puts them into large clear plastic boxes to keep humidity up, removing the lids periodically for fresh air. Seems to work for her. 

Well, I am off to send a second flask of thaianum to my friend today as a safe check, but I am sure it will get to him fine.

Brett


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## quietaustralian (Apr 11, 2011)

Was it illegal for people in the US to import flasks of thaianum from Thailand or Taiwan prior to these shipments. I know its wasn't illegal under CITES. Was it a problem with Thailand?

Mick


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## NYEric (Apr 11, 2011)

s1214215 said:


> Well, I am off to send a second flask of thaianum to my friend today as a safe check, but I am sure it will get to him fine.
> 
> Brett



Just include the stickers!!!


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## s1214215 (Apr 11, 2011)

:rollhappy:Hi Mick

As far as I know Thailand has no issues with thaianum going to any country. I have sent my own mature plants (sourced in Chiangmai) of the natural form to Australia with CITES.. I have sent flasks of the a-line form to Japan. CITES (Bangkok) inspected both and gave approval. I have the papers.

To the USA, I sent a flask of a Thai made flask of the natural form (from nursery raised parents), and the USA accepted it via Customs (USDA) and I got the ok via Fisheries and Wildlife. I can only assume if I and others involved have communications from them, that is ok. What was communicated was that as long as it is a propagated plant in flask from propagated parents" it was ok.

In a nut shell, I cant see it was ever illegal to send thaianum to the USA. Just that it was perceived to be illegal.

Mick, (are you Vietnamese-Australian or Anglo-Australian - cant tell from your nick. [just a curious thing]). Your write like a bunch of my Viet-Ozzie friends and family. GEts confusing these days given what a mixed bunch Ozzies are :clap:.

Oh yeah thanks Eric for the push.. oke: I already have and thanks for the embarassing reminder.:sob: It was a dreadful week by the way....  Thats what I get for letting my partner get involved. Now I do all the export work myself.

Brett


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## quietaustralian (Apr 11, 2011)

s1214215 said:


> :rollhappy:Hi Mick
> 
> As far as I know Thailand has no issues with thaianum going to any country. I have sent my own mature plants (sourced in Chiangmai) of the natural form to Australia with CITES.. I have sent flasks of the a-line form to Japan. CITES (Bangkok) inspected both and gave approval. I have the papers.
> 
> ...



:ninja: anh không hiểu


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## s1214215 (Apr 11, 2011)

anh không hiểu? I am not Vietnamese or birth or nationality. Not sure,but does your explaination mean "I dont understand?" Sorry, my skill at Vietnamese is limited to sweet nothings (learnt from my ex-), insults and directions: as are those of most of my Viet-born/Oz born-Viet friends :rollhappy:

Brett


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## s1214215 (Apr 11, 2011)

Wow did this topic get off track...

OK.. As far as can tell. thaianum is legal to leave Thailand, and can legally enter the USA. CITES in Thailand checked my first flask, gave it the ok to leave THailand, Phytosanitary (Thai Agricultural Dept) gave the OK for all of them. Phyto in Thailand has to get a list of species from CITES for approved species to export.

F&W emailed an ok. USDA gave a verbal one. The first flask has passed USDA/Customs and now my friend has plants and certs.

Brett


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## fibre (Apr 11, 2011)

s1214215 said:


> Wow did this topic get off track...
> 
> OK.. As far as can tell. thaianum is legal to leave Thailand, and can legally enter the USA. CITES in Thailand checked my first flask, gave it the ok to leave THailand, Phytosanitary (Thai Agricultural Dept) gave the OK for all of them. Phyto in Thailand has to get a list of species from CITES for approved species to export.
> 
> ...



WOW! Brett, you are the 'thaianum-hero'!


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## s1214215 (Apr 11, 2011)

Not really Chris.. I just want to see paphs in flask exportable from country to country for preservation in collections, free of political BS. Luckily there was no reason thaianum can not be exported.

Brett


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## fibre (Apr 11, 2011)

s1214215 said:


> Not really Chris.. I just want to see paphs in flask exportable from country to country for preservation in collections, free of political BS. Luckily there was no reason thaianum can not be exported.
> 
> Brett



Yes, you're right, Brett. But someone had to do this first step or US collections would have to wait some more years for the first thaianum.


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## Hien (Apr 11, 2011)

I think the Thai government is practical & wise. This way things get preserved in nature, the country and the peoples make money as well.
In contrast, the vietnamese government is kind of silly/crazy, they have not permitted the export of their desireable paphs or flasks (like the thai). But sell tons of orchids very cheaply as herb to the chinese. I can not fathom the twisted logic of the action.


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## s1214215 (Apr 11, 2011)

Very wise words Hien. I agree completely. 

However, I dont now how much the Thai government really cares about conservation given the rampant pillaging of its and neighbouring countries forests for local markets. Well I cant see that changing any time soon. 

I also wonder how some species are still said to be only of Vietnamese origin, like hangianum, when some very prominent Paph people have seen them growing in Southern Yunan.

I also see many wild collected Vietnamese orchids sold illegally in Thailand at markets (within Bangkok and other areas), yet the same plants can not be exported legally from Vietnam. Many of the same plants a week later I see on Ebay and often claiming to have certificates - which I doubt as I know the CITES folk here well enough and they are not stupid. We discussed the matter recently.

Brett


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## KyushuCalanthe (Apr 11, 2011)

Hats off to you Brett for making this possible.

Oh, no, crap, some dudes in black suits are banging on the door....:rollhappy:


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## NYEric (Apr 11, 2011)

Shhhhhhh! :ninja:


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Apr 11, 2011)

So......the thaianum's in people's collections in the US were actually legal??? Good news! It does seem that CITES issues are strictly with Vietnam. P. kovachii certainly made it to market fast enough...P. parnatanum seemed to have no problem being distributed...not that anyone wanted it.


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## s1214215 (Apr 11, 2011)

Er.. Yeah thanks Tom 

Not sure Eric. All I can say is that what I have sent is. I cant say how people got the previous plants. I guess if they came in and were properly inspected they would be.

The issue with the flask I sent was that it was "propagated plant material from propagated parent plants" and that allows the flask to come it. Flasks with wild parents are a no go.

Brett


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## s1214215 (Apr 12, 2011)

Well the second thaianum flask is in the post and will arrive in 5 days. So we will soon see if there are any irregularities. I dont think there will be though. 

Did I go overkill on the packing :rollhappy:

Brett


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## Marc (Apr 13, 2011)

At least your bring the message across clearly


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## Ernie (Apr 13, 2011)

Marc said:


> At least your bring the message across clearly



 Brett, I already said it I think, but thanks for all your efforts. You are doing this species and those that grow it a huge favor. Cheers to you!


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## KyushuCalanthe (Apr 13, 2011)

I think you can't state it more clearly than that Brett! Maybe next time you could put something like: THERE ARE FLASKS OF PROPAGATED CITES APPENDIX I PLANTS INSIDE HERE. STOP DRINKING YOUR COFFEE AND INSPECT THE X?FR!ING BOX PLEASE! :rollhappy:


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## Bob in Albany N.Y. (Apr 13, 2011)

Brett, I don't think you went over board. Good job.


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## s1214215 (Apr 13, 2011)

Hi and thanks everyone.

Actually the people at Customs and PIS are generally great and fast with inspection. They only times I see things slow with them is holidays when they get backlogged with a skeleton staff.

The headache nearly always is USPS. The worst is when they fail to scan a package in and then it doesnt arrive in Customs. 

I once had to call Customs, and they had to call USPS before USPS would actually go look for a box that was not scanned in, which was labelled as the one in the photo, and was just sitting on a shelf. I dont understand the attitude. They also wont act for a customs until the shipping country post office makes an inquiry. With EMS post, thats not until after 5 working days. So you can see why USPS is frustrating. Their attitude toward providing a servive is not good and once becoming of a postal provider.

Brett


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## NYEric (Apr 14, 2011)

What!? A problem with the USPS!? No way!!


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## s1214215 (Apr 14, 2011)

You'd be suprised at the hassles I have had with them over the years. Thats why I only use EMS mail as I can track it and have gotten to know some of the upper staff at USDA, PIS and Express Mail within USPS (who know more about what they are doing).


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## s1214215 (Apr 14, 2011)

The box is in NY at Customs already.. Wow... Thailand post is getting fast getting to NY lately. Fingers crossed now its all good

So it seems the glaring stickers worked. Either that or someone at USPS is watch this thread haha..
Brett


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## NYEric (Apr 14, 2011)

Not funny!


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## s1214215 (Apr 14, 2011)

NYEric said:


> Not funny!



It gets better. Its in PIS now..

Hmmm that sounds bad doesnt it.. 

Well with some luck its on its way out tomorrow and back with those lovely people at USPS.

Brett


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## NYEric (Apr 14, 2011)

Hopefully, none of *them* are reading this thread! oke:


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## s1214215 (Apr 14, 2011)

Yeah, maybe I shouldnt pull a joke on the acronym. They are very very helpful at PIS, and at USDA. Never had a problem and I find them helpful. No joke.

USPS, well.. They are why I use EMS and track packages carefully, and note where it is each step of the way.


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## s1214215 (Apr 15, 2011)

Woohoo..:clap: The second flask has passed USDA and PIS and is back with USPS.. hmm enough acronyms for you? 

So I sur enough now that thaianum is an ok plant to ship to the USA

Brett

ps.. can anyone add the dancing banana to the list of emoticons :rollhappy:


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## s1214215 (Apr 19, 2011)

2nd flask thaianum is at the delivery hometown post office and about to be delivered. Seems there is no reason for thaianum to be sent to the USA..

Brett


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## cnycharles (Apr 19, 2011)

s1214215 said:


> 2nd flask thaianum is at the delivery hometown post office and about to be delivered. Seems there is no reason for thaianum to be sent to the USA..
> 
> Brett



you mean that there is no reason it can't be sent to the u.s.? 

I just opened up the box and everything looks good (especially those phal lowii; sweet!), though I'll have to check out the thaianum as they got mixed a bit. Most of them should be okay, though


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## gonewild (Apr 19, 2011)

Love to see a picture of how they arrived!


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## s1214215 (Apr 19, 2011)

I am hoping they are ok.. They are in conical flasks, which I think dont travel as well as whisky bottles. That said, the Taiwanese only use conical flasks from what I have seen. I tend to get the flasks from two suppliers that add less agar to their flasks when replating as I find these travel much better. I will ask my friend for pics now that they arrived.

I think we have to be realistic though when we send flasks in the post. They never really arrive pristine. Some arrive looking really good, but they tend to be big plants and an element of luck comes in too i.e. the handlers didnt play football with it. Small seedlings travel less well. I try to send as large as I can get them so they dont bounce about. 

Its a shame I cant take seedlings out of flask, wash off the agar and put them into sterile bags. I have a laminar flow cabinet and bagging the plant is really the best way to ship them. No damage at all then. I dont think this is permitted to the USA though. I might send an email to USDA to check, but I think it is not and if it is, I may have to get an authorised lab to deflask them into bags.

Brett


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## s1214215 (Apr 19, 2011)

Hi Charles.. I missed your post above. Can you take some pics for us? Will email you too about pics. It would be good to see.

Yes, you are correct. There is no reason we can not send thaianum to the USA. F&W, CITES and USDA have said ok, and now I have sent two flasks and there has been no problems or confusions. So its all go. 

Brett


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## cnycharles (Apr 19, 2011)

I posted pics of plants I'm putting in the auction and included the thaianum flask which is linked here
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=280425#post280425

things did get turned around a bit I can see, but like brett said the booze flasks with large plants fared the best while smaller things got stirred around a bit

too bad there isn't a packaging invention that includes a sort of gyroscope such that when placed in a box, it makes it very difficult to turn the box on it's side


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## s1214215 (Apr 20, 2011)

Hi Charles

I am happy that the whisky bottles did ok.. Shook up, but thats normal for flasks that have been half way around the world for near seven days in the post I think.

Thanks for the help on this and the pics. I am glad the Phal lowii fared well, the Pecteilis I OK, and the thaianum, well I think they guys at USPS had a game of football.. I am sorry, but I think standards are declining at USPS. I have been posting to the USA for three years now and I keep seeing things slip. The manager at Customs was scathing of USPS as they took near two days to come get this box, even though Customs the manager had cleared it and called them to say come get it. I was advised I should make a formal complaint. Bit hard from Thailand though.

I suggest if you can do a big order/group order to use an airline to freight flasks over and pay an agent to transit them for you.. Its worth the fee and not hard to organise.. They are much kinder to your plants. I just got a box from Taiwan last month, 20 flasks and only two had to be unflasked.. All the others are still in flask. That was with KLM. Oh, the box had this way up stickers on it and fragile stickers,, yet packed no where near as well as I pack. Yet they arrived near pristine. Says a lot. I am about to get my third lot of flasks from Taiwan by KLM and I will stick with them.

Here is a pic of a flask from the same batch of thaianum (still in flask) and a second thaianum from a conical flask with heavier agar from a different Tawainese nursery (after potting - you can see why I prefer light agar in flask and why I am purchasing from the fist flask supplier more now), and a Chilochista that I sent to Japan after four days in the post and the later thaianum after potting. 

Brett


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## cnycharles (Apr 20, 2011)

hello brett,
I agree that a different carrier is the way to go, and that either complete incompetence or absolute spite was involved in these two boxes being treated so roughly. For this last box, which was packed and labeled so well, it is shocking how much damage there was to the thaianum flask. It had to have been deliberate as the packing and labeling were done so well; the packing wasn't the issue... a box that large would have to be deliberately roughed around for the contents of that flask to have been so completely mixed around and the leaves/stems to have been damaged as they were

that said, though I can't say how I would act if I had sent packages and the carrier were not being timely in getting them around; if someone has you at their mercy and can have such a negative effect on a lot of valued items, I have a feeling that if at all possible I'd try to talk as calmly as possible to keep individuals from getting so uptight that they would do something like this. though I am mentioning this, if the same had happened to me I can't say that I would have dealt with them any differently, just that letting loose on service people rarely ever ends up going well for the customer when the customer isn't present to watch over their goods! (think of the cockroach in the cheeseburger....) 

after looking at your pictures above again, I have to say that the damage to the seedlings in this last box (and likely the previous one) was deliberately done. for a box that large to have that much damage meant that someone went to a lot of trouble to mess them up that badly


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## s1214215 (Apr 20, 2011)

Hi Charles

I know the grief on this. Luckily the thaianum I sent was at my cost and you are not out of pocket in it.. The other plants are were bigger and that shows in that they travelled better. Still, I think it not impossible to send these flasks as I have sent paphs of the same size in flask to friends before

Two factors come in though. Speed is one. 

The other is a big heavy box.. If the USPS boys cant pick it up and throw it, it arrives soooo much better.  

Serious,, I sent a 18kg box to Virginia a while back and not much movement at all in some flasks.

Also, I just got a word from my friend in Japan.. One of the thaianum I send him, after 4 days in the post is still in flask, unifected after a month.. so post can work..

I do suggest though, that it may be worth looking at airlines for larger shipments as I still have flasks from Taiwan sitting here perfect from my last two shipments.

Brett


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## gonewild (Apr 20, 2011)

s1214215 said:


> Its a shame I cant take seedlings out of flask, wash off the agar and put them into sterile bags. I have a laminar flow cabinet and bagging the plant is really the best way to ship them. No damage at all then. I dont think this is permitted to the USA though. I might send an email to USDA to check, but I think it is not and if it is, I may have to get an authorised lab to deflask them into bags.
> Brett



In order for the plants to be exempt from CITES they must be "in-vitro" at the time of importation. Deflasked and in a sterile bag is not "in-vitro". We can import the species into the USA if they are out of flask but that requires all the CITES permits and documents and expense.


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## s1214215 (Apr 20, 2011)

gonewild said:


> In order for the plants to be exempt from CITES they must be "in-vitro" at the time of importation. Deflasked and in a sterile bag is not "in-vitro". We can import the species into the USA if they are out of flask but that requires all the CITES permits and documents and expense.




Thanks.. I worried this was the case. 

We can send plants deflasked into sterile bags to send to Australia, but sadly every lab in Thailand I contacted from the AQIS list says they dont do that anymore as theres no money in it. 

I emailed AQIS to see if I can get a friend certified.. Doesnt help the USA though

Brett


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## gonewild (Apr 20, 2011)

s1214215 said:


> Hi Charles
> 
> I suggest if you can do a big order/group order to use an airline to freight flasks over and pay an agent to transit them for you.. Its worth the fee and not hard to organise.. They are much kinder to your plants. /ChilochistaFlask.jpg[/IMG]



The problem is that there can be long delays clearing customs from the airlines. Believe it or not the USPS has a fast process through Customs.


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## s1214215 (Apr 20, 2011)

Ye Gods.. I cant win to help my friends.. 

So then it may be to send a big order by EMS as then it wont be tossed about..

Brett


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## Hien (Apr 20, 2011)

s1214215 said:


> Ye Gods.. I cant win to help my friends..
> 
> So then it may be to send a big order by EMS as then it wont be tossed about..
> 
> Brett



I think we should be less demanding of perfection with plants in flasks, and be just happy that we are lucky to have a Slippertalk friendly member who provides us a mean to get some plants we may not have access to otherwise.

1) even sending flask a short distance between states may not look better than what I see from these pictures in this post.
2) short of having a personal courrier who bring the box always right side up door to door (but we will have to pay the person's air fare , and may be more...for such a critical /important stuff) there is no way to avoid all the mechanical / automatic UPS, FEDEX, USPS sorting belts from tumbling thing once it is off the sender's hands.
3) I also have a suggestion. To save the bruise plants / leaves, one should use only distilled water in washing them, not normal tap water or any chemical such as physan (distilled water really does a wonderful job in saving leaves).


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## cnycharles (Apr 20, 2011)

hien, that sounds like good advice, though eric had washed them with water and some physan and then diluted dragon's blood, and I just finished rinsing them after a short soak with warm water and diluted hydrogen peroxide (minutes before I read this). we do have city water, but as adirondack spring water has very little contaminants and sources of bacteria, they have the lowest allowable levels of chlorine in their water. i've received a few flasks including from australia and seen agar moved around a bit, but both of these flasks were completely stirred up like someone had put a spoon in there and mixed them up like a milkshake. to have that happen in a large box that is packed tight with bubble wrap, means that someone or many people tossed it around for a while (or shook it like a holder you would mix a drink with ice in...)


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## NYEric (Apr 20, 2011)

Hien said:


> 3) I also have a suggestion. To save the bruise plants / leaves, one should use only distilled water in washing them, not normal tap water or any chemical such as physan (distilled water really does a wonderful job in saving leaves).


I used distilled water, the plants were so damaged that to not use a cleaning agent would have meant just throw into garbage can.


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## gonewild (Apr 20, 2011)

Most flasks that I have bought that were shipped in flask get all messed up. Even some flasks I bought from Santa Barbara ( 2 hour drive) shipped in the mail came all scrambled. The problem is the agar block acts like a hammer and smashes the tender foliage. I always ask that the plants be removed from the flask for shipping but of course this is not possible for international shipping.

Maybe the solution would be to ship the flasks when the plants are in a protocorm stage and then replate them on arrival into another flask. This of course means extra lab time after arrival but maybe a higher survival ratio?

If the agar in the flask can be more liquid for shipment that would reduce physical damage to the plantlets. Or the root mass needs to be so overgrown that it won't move around in a tapered flask.

I don't think airline security will allow anyone to hand carry flasks on board a plane now so personal transport is not an option.


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## NYEric (Apr 20, 2011)

yes, that would work better. another idea I suggested would be to pack the flask w/ sterile styrofoam beads. The plants could grow up and the air space would be less open for plantlets to shift during transportation.


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## s1214215 (Sep 4, 2013)

Any updates on how the seedling have fared over time? Should be fs by now. 

Hope they recovered from the postal trauma. Sadly we cant put anything in flasks to protect the plants. I have had friends in countries that are not fussy, put sterile perlite in the flask and it stops plants getting smashed.

Brett


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## NYEric (Sep 4, 2013)

Sounds like a good idea. 
the seedlings that I got first a had no chance. 
Let me know if you get chiloschista viridiflava in decent size. Although IOSPE Orchids says it is not fragrant I got a plant years ago from Thailand vendors at the GNYOS show labeled "viridiflava" that smelled exactly l8ike chocolate. I would love to get more.


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## Chicago Chad (Sep 4, 2013)

NYeric-
I have a viridiflava if you are interested. It was purchased from Natt's orchids (also Thai vendors). I was going to put it up on Ebay soon, b/c I have new plants to accommodate. It is a good sized plant that bloomed last year. I cannot tell you with certainty that it has a scent, but I was told that it does. If you're interested, PM and I will send you some pics.


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## NYEric (Sep 4, 2013)

That would be very cool, thanks.


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## Chicago Chad (Sep 4, 2013)

No prob. I will take some pics after work and send them to you tmrw.


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## NYEric (Sep 4, 2013)

OKey!


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## Chicago Chad (Sep 5, 2013)

Pics are in your inbox.


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