# Deflasked Fritz Schomburgs, this will be a challenge



## tnyr5 (Mar 12, 2015)

Got a flask of Fritz Schomburgs today. As soon as I saw the package, I knew this was going to be interesting.




I think the postal service actually kicked this package at some point. Not sure if a "fragile" sticker would have helped. 
The flask looked...well like a flask that had been shipped without a fragile sticker lol. Not so much a flask as a ball of agar, shredded paper, and disembodied roots with some tiny plants mixed in. It was packed nicely enough, but thepacking method didn't seem to work.



Consequently, there was no choice but to wash the agar away & put them straight into compots, rather than potting them with the agar for a month like I did with my Jason Fischers. 
I put them in some boiled sphag and perlite for now. All told, I have about 26 after losing 8 or so to shipping damage. We'll see how they do. Most are very, very tiny with only one root.


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## gonewild (Mar 12, 2015)

How far did it travel?


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## tnyr5 (Mar 12, 2015)

CA to PA, so certainly not an insignificant trip.


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## NYEric (Mar 12, 2015)

Good luck.


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## Cat (Mar 12, 2015)

Hope the shipping did not do to much damage on them. So you planned to pot them with the agar? I only ask because I have not potted with the agar myself. I remove most of it and I have a flask of Phrag Fritz Schomburg (besseae “Mega” X kovachii “Leonardo Andre” FCC/ AOS) from OZ coming in sometime around April 13th.


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## mrhappyrotter (Mar 12, 2015)

Goooooooo USPS!

To be honest, I doubt even a 3 inch layer of fragile stickers on the outside of the box would have made a difference in how they treat your packages.

As you can tell, I'm a little disgruntled with USPS. They frequently fail to put a notice in my mailbox to alert me that I have a package waiting in the office (they won't leave it at the mail center anymore, and they won't deliver to my door). They also have a habit of electronically marking packages as delivered, but not bothering to actually deliver it until several days later. I guess it looks better on their reports if they lie about having delivered on time. And something about shipments of plants, it's like those stickers stating "perishable" "fragile" and "live plants" are a beacon to have the boxes crushed, kicked, dropped, or otherwise mechanically damaged.

Grrrrrrrrrr.

Rage mode deactivated. I do hope your phraglings adjust and thrive.


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## tnyr5 (Mar 12, 2015)

Lol calm yourself man! Deep breaths.
Cat, this is the same cross you're getting. Check my Jason Fischer thread, those were started with the agar on for a month.


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## orchid527 (Mar 12, 2015)

Don't know if it is the case this time, but I see this frequently when the medium is a little on the soft side. It comes loose in the flask and tumbles into a ball, and in the process does a lot of damage to the plants. I doubt if USPS is ever going to take special care of any package you ship and I don't think there is any way to protect the flask to prevent the damage, except to open the flask and add soft packing to fill the void.

Sad to hear this as I will be receiving one of these tomorrow, and I'm sure it will look just like yours.

Mike


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## tnyr5 (Mar 12, 2015)

Mike, I'm sure yours will be better. I'm extremely unlucky. 
Post pics when you get it .


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## abax (Mar 12, 2015)

The only way to ship plants for me is FedEx two day. It's
worth the extra cost to me to receive intact plants. So sad
about your tumbled babies, but it might have a happy ending.


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## Ruth (Mar 13, 2015)

Recently, I learned that fedex 2 day has a central location that all packages go to. I live in Idaho. A plant coming to me from California would go to the Tennesee fedex distribution center and then come back to me in Idaho. The only answer with fedex is one day which costs a fortune


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## gonewild (Mar 13, 2015)

orchid527 said:


> I doubt if USPS is ever going to take special care of any package you ship.



You are supposed to label packages that contain live plants. Put a big red sticker on every side of the box that says "Live Plants, Fragile, Keep from heat and cold". The label does make a difference. If you make your box look special and important most USPS personal will respect the package. If it looks like it contains shoes it will get treated like shoes.



> and I don't think there is any way to protect the flask to prevent the damage, except to open the flask and add soft packing to fill the void.



That is correct. Best to ask the seller to deflask the plants for you. Learn to grow the seedlings without the agar.


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## cnycharles (Mar 13, 2015)

Ouch. I have had very good luck with USPS and timely safe delivery. I did receive some bletilla tubers in the street side mailbox last week instead of inside the front door but it was 'warm' enough and they were perennials 

Don't ask about intl delivery of paph flasks; they looked just like yours or worse and were quickly dead


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## tnyr5 (Mar 13, 2015)

Yeah, lesson learned. I'll stick with my rule from now on and only buy things I can see in person.
Despite that, I am GOING to save most of these babies. This is a full-blown mission now lol.


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## theorchidzone (Mar 13, 2015)

We can replace the plants. My shipper is new. We should have sent entirely out of flask. 
Please let us know.
JC


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## tnyr5 (Mar 13, 2015)

The Orchid Zone, being the awesome group of people it is, has made me an offer I can't refuse lol.


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## gonewild (Mar 13, 2015)

tnyr5 said:


> The Orchid Zone, being the awesome group of people it is, has made me an offer I can't refuse lol.



Breaking your new rule already???? oke:

No reason to avoid shipping plants with USPS as in reality most of the time plants arrive fine. OZ recognized the problem was an error on a new persons part so.... apologize to USPS.


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## tnyr5 (Mar 13, 2015)

The only way you'll get me to apologize to USPS is by slow, painful torture, and I don't think you've got the


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## gonewild (Mar 13, 2015)

USPS has the essos to punish you. Now you don't dare order any more plants through the mail.


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## Ozpaph (Mar 14, 2015)

Wont boiling the sphagnum moss kill it? Wouldnt it be better alive?


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## orchid527 (Mar 15, 2015)

Tony

Received my plants on Saturday and they had been shipped out of flask with the medium removed. They were a little on the small side, but all were quite healthy. There are about 30 seedlings. 

Mike


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## gonewild (Mar 15, 2015)

Those look perfect size to come out of flask!
They look good.


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## Justin (Mar 15, 2015)

this is going to be good.


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## Cat (Mar 15, 2015)

ohh looking good!! Can't wait to get mine :clap:


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## orchid527 (Mar 15, 2015)

Regarding the size, the largest is 3 cm and the smallest is 1 cm. The average is about 1.5 cm. Most have a single root about 1 cm long. For reference, these pots have an ID of about 9 cm.

I have potted out hundreds of flasks, and I really don't anticipate much trouble with these, but I suspect the size would be a problem for many. I don't keep statistics, but I would guess that these are in the lower 25 percentile, with respect to size, of the plants I have deflasked.

That said, they are healthy, it is an excellent cross and the price was right. I am quite satisfied with the purchase.

Mike


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## gonewild (Mar 15, 2015)

What I see as far as size is not the measure in cm. The plants have two strong leaves with a new leaf coming from the crown. The new new 3rd leaf emergence is when the plant begins to grow a real root system. So the timing/size is perfect for strong rapid growth. Because they are slightly physically smaller and have fewer roots there was basically no damage when they were deflasked.
That's why I said they are the perfect size in my experience.


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## tnyr5 (Mar 15, 2015)

Mike, those look very good .


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## tnyr5 (Mar 20, 2015)

I got my replacement batch; these came in much better shape.


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## Justin (Mar 20, 2015)

those look nice. i would be excited.


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## MaryPientka (Mar 20, 2015)

Good luck


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## ehanes7612 (Mar 20, 2015)

as long as they have roots, they should be fine...phrag hybrids are pretty tough..although next time I would encourage you to have them send out of flask next time..chuck acker sends me out of flask every time and they do just fine


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## Bob in Albany N.Y. (Mar 20, 2015)

Ed, I may be wrong, but Orchid Zone sends them out of flask, bare root wrapped in a damp paper hand towel. He is most likely showing you them as they arrived.


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## theorchidzone (Mar 20, 2015)

Yes. That is what we do now. Briefly a new person was shipping them in flask but with the lid open and packing material to prevent jostling. I know some other flask sellers do it this way with good luck. In the case of these damaged ones, the were sent by the in-flask method.

To state the obvious, plants are perishable and something can always go wrong. It is a constant source of concern. Too cold, too hot, too rough, too long in transit....

But we are happy to work with customers. We understand that people are spending their hard earned money on our plants.



Bob in Albany said:


> Ed, I may be wrong, but Orchid Zone sends them out of flask, bare root wrapped in a damp paper hand towel. He is most likely showing you them as they arrived.


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## tnyr5 (Mar 21, 2015)

You guys went way beyond what I could ever have expected. Thank you!


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## tnyr5 (Jul 17, 2015)

:evil::evil::evil:




The wee ones seem to be past the temper tantrum stage and into active growth now. Obviously, I have a lot more than these 8 lol


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## NYEric (Jul 17, 2015)

Not bad.


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## Migrant13 (Jul 17, 2015)

Looking good. Under lights? If so, what type? Feeding regimen? Thanks!


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## tnyr5 (Jul 18, 2015)

Yeah, under lights. 
They get K-lite.


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## tnyr5 (Aug 5, 2015)

It's amazing how fast they grow once they get a mind to do it.


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## NYEric (Aug 5, 2015)

Looking good.


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## theorchidzone (Aug 5, 2015)

Indeed. Looking very good. Very husky.
We really pay attention to roots rather than leaves when we deflask. We believe the roots are vastly more important.
Terry has also taught me to deflask early. The thought being that one never wants the plants to stall by outgrowing their nutrients.
Finally, this grex has been one of our best sellers this year. Hope to see the results in a few years too. We kept plenty also.


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## tnyr5 (Sep 8, 2015)

Here's a shot of the whole litter. The ones from the previous pics are on the bottom right. I admit that I had trouble with the bulk of the seedlings until recently. I started them all in sphagnum with some perlite, but only about 15% (I'm guessing the ones that inherited the _besseae_'s medium preferences) ever did well. The rest sulked with stalled root tip after stalled root tip. Fed up with this, I repotted all the stragglers into a mix of 40% seedling grade Orchiata and 60% freshly-collected forest moss, which I scalded in 160° water for 5 minutes to kill off any gunk. The results were immediate. Within one week, every single sulking plant had thrown a new root, even the tiny runts. So, if you're having trouble with this cross, that's the medium I suggest you use.


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## NYEric (Sep 8, 2015)

"freshly-collected forest moss" You are playing with fire!!  Good luck.


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## Justin (Sep 8, 2015)

looking good!


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## SlipperFan (Sep 8, 2015)

Tony, do you chop up the moss to mix with the orchiata? Or just layer it?


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## tnyr5 (Sep 8, 2015)

I just tore chunks & mixed it with Orchiata, then added a ~ 3/8" top dressing of pure moss.


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## SlipperFan (Sep 8, 2015)

tnyr5 said:


> I just tore chunks & mixed it with Orchiata, then added a ~ 3/8" top dressing of pure moss.



Thanks.


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## abax (Sep 8, 2015)

Why didn't the scalding kill the moss, tnyr? I'm rather
surprised about that. The seedlings look very good to me.


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## tnyr5 (Sep 9, 2015)

It did kill it; it doesn't turn brown right away.


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## tnyr5 (Sep 30, 2015)

Growth update. Largest seedling is 5" now.


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## troy (Sep 30, 2015)

Growing very well!! Growing from flask I beleive is key!!!


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## orchidman77 (Sep 30, 2015)

Great-looking seedlings!!


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## Hamlet (Oct 2, 2015)

They look great!


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## Migrant13 (Oct 2, 2015)

Very happy looking seedlings. This cross looks to have good vigor especially with your growing medium and conditions.


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## tnyr5 (Oct 26, 2015)

Been about 7 months now & I'm starting to put the largest in individual pots. 
They are about 3 months behind where the Jason Fischers were at this point, but they did get a rocky start, after all.


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## Ssapha (Oct 26, 2015)

They look absolutely beautiful!
When a flask is purchased, what kind of a survival rate (percentage?) can an experienced grower have?
Just curious.

Margit


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## Justin (Oct 26, 2015)

Generally I have 100% survival out of flask and then see a very small percentage of runts (maybe 2-3 plants out of of 25) die over the 12 months. Some species are more difficult but generally flasks do very well for me...and apparently for other good growers like Tony


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## Ssapha (Oct 27, 2015)

That is really great Justin.
Maybe I should start researching ...
;-) 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## tnyr5 (Nov 29, 2015)

Little update. The largest one is 18cm LS.


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## MorandiWine (Dec 1, 2015)

Nice! They get the Oceanic Salt too?

T


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tnyr5 (Dec 1, 2015)

Shhhhh! Quit giving away my secrets!


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## tnyr5 (Jan 28, 2016)

Little update.


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## NYEric (Jan 28, 2016)

Looking good, I have to pick something to trade with you...Phrag. Ice Princess perhaps!?


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## tnyr5 (Jan 28, 2016)

It's okay, Eric. You don't have to give me anything. I'm completely out of room!


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## NYEric (Jan 28, 2016)

There's always more room for orchids!


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## Justin (Jan 28, 2016)

Looks very successful!


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## tnyr5 (Jan 28, 2016)

There are a bunch more, I just couldn't fit them all in one picture lol.
Eric, NO ROOM!


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## orchidman77 (Jan 28, 2016)

They continue to be gorgeous!! I'm over here salivating... :rollhappy:

David


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## abax (Jan 28, 2016)

I'll volunteer to help you make more room. The plants
look wonderful, but what are they doing in my jacuzzi?
You've done a fantastic job.


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## Marco (Jan 28, 2016)

tnyr5 said:


> There are a bunch more, I just couldn't fit them all in one picture lol.
> Eric, NO ROOM!



Ive said that many times as well. 

They look like they are coming along well..

Well done!


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## tnyr5 (Mar 24, 2016)

One year from deflasking. Leaf spans are 9-9.5in on the group leaders.


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## tomkalina (Mar 24, 2016)

Nice looking seedlings.


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## orchidman77 (Mar 24, 2016)

I'm loving all these seedling updates (mine and others)!!! They look fantastic, as always - you sure you _really _need about 60 of them? 

David


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## tnyr5 (Mar 24, 2016)

Yes, yes I do lol.
I have to admit, the grow out threads are mostly for me to keep track of things. This will become much more important in the next couple years as my breeding projects start coming to fruition.


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## orchidman77 (Mar 24, 2016)

I absolutely agree--it's very convenient to scroll through a few pages and see the months pass by. I'm interested to hear of these breeding projects!

David


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## tnyr5 (Oct 30, 2016)

The first of these are blooming now, but due to a miscalculation on my part, the first flower is deformed. Second one spiking looks normal, so I'll wait for that one before I post pics.


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## Justin (Oct 30, 2016)

That is fast to flower!


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## NYEric (Oct 30, 2016)

Yes. Show us your blooms!


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## tnyr5 (Oct 31, 2016)

Soon enough.


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## NYEric (Oct 31, 2016)

tnyr5 said:


> Eric, NO ROOM!


Hey, I picked up a flask of the Paph. Sacajawea's Slippers from Tom Kalina. Do you have room...?


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## tnyr5 (Oct 31, 2016)

Not with thousands of potential seedlings from my own breeding in the works lol. No room!


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## leeaun (Nov 1, 2016)

Wow what an achievement in 1 year! Are the straight kovachii seedlings ever so fast growing like these hybrids? Being based in the UK its not easy to find phrag kovachii flasks so I was contemplating getting one from Sam from OI but he warned me they are not easy from flask and would not release them to me this time round as they are a bit small and risk me killing them.......

If only the paph sanderianums and roths have such growth rate from flasks......




tnyr5 said:


> Little update.


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## abax (Nov 6, 2016)

I know it's hard for an orchid dad to let babies go, but you
must allow ST people first crack at these beautiful younguns'.


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## tnyr5 (Nov 20, 2016)

Speaking of cracking...


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