# Paphiopedilum in China - A interesting new book



## ORG (Sep 5, 2009)

Yesterday I get from China a very interesting new book
written by
*Liu Zhongjian, Chen Singchi, Chen Lijun and Lei Sipeng*
*The Genus Paphiopedilum in China*
371 pages with a lot of pictures, especially also from the habitats.
It includes 27 species and many natural hybrids in China, but shows also the other species of the genus
It is published by Science Press, Beijing
ISBN 978-7-03-024864-0







Best greetings

Olaf


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## NYEric (Sep 5, 2009)

THanx for the info.


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## Ernie (Sep 5, 2009)

Is there a version in English? 

-Ernie


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## ORG (Sep 5, 2009)

Dear Ernie,
the book is written in chinese and many parts also in english, especially about the species.
It was just published, so there is no version only in english. But it is very interesting, also when I cannot read and understand chinese.

Best greetings

Olaf


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## Ernie (Sep 5, 2009)

Thanks Olaf. Cheers! 

-Ernie


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## biothanasis (Sep 5, 2009)

Interesting!!!


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## SlipperFan (Sep 5, 2009)

Interesting, Olaf. I would like to see this.


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## goldenrose (Sep 6, 2009)

:clap: Looks like it would be a good one!


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## Pete (Sep 7, 2009)

I cant seem to find it available for purchase anywhere...


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## Clark (Sep 7, 2009)

Price: ￥ 280.00 

http://translate.google.com/transla...v=/search?q=ISBN+978-7-03-024864-0&hl=en&sa=G

another link- http://translate.google.com/transla...v=/search?q=ISBN+978-7-03-024864-0&hl=en&sa=G

Both give price, but unclear how to purchase.


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## kentuckiense (Sep 7, 2009)

Oooooh man I need to find this.


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## Roth (Sep 11, 2009)

The good news is that Chen Singchi is responsible for the whole jungle paphiopedilum business, he is the big Godfather in China to arrange shipping of thousands and thousands of paphs and cyps each year for the last 20 years... So he knows what he is talking about. Apart from that, he was responsible, for his very bleak reports of the "situations of paphiopedilum the wild" for paphs being on App I, and for a dramatic raise i the paphs prices... 

His daughter in law went by the name of Kaichen Nursery - Chen-Yi nursery. Every year this trader smuggles some hundreds to thousands boxes of Paphiopedilum and cypripedium through the world, including USA, using EMS, DHL, and other lesser known carriers similar to those. On the other side, Pr. Chen was the CITES scientific authority for China. Strange world isn't that ?


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## yijiawang (Sep 14, 2009)

today, I purchase some books, very nice book with many many situ pictures!


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## NYEric (Sep 14, 2009)

Sanderianum said:


> Strange world isn't that ?


 Like the Gigante family; one brother "reputed mobster", the other "priest"! :rollhappy:


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## Bolero (Sep 15, 2009)

I will be interested to see what people think once they start getting the book. I might hold off until I see reviews.

But the book looks like it might be the one for me.


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## goldenrose (Sep 15, 2009)

It's on my list when $$$ improve!


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## kentuckiense (Sep 22, 2009)

I received a copy of this book last week, so I'll write up a little review of sorts.

What I like:
-The _in-situ_ photographs are just phenomenal. Almost every species has an _in-situ_ photo, and the vast majority have several. There is even an _in-situ_ photograph of _P. xfanaticum_. These alone make this book worth it for me.
-Almost all species also have a landscape habitat photo. They really put the species in environmental context.
-While this is a China-specific Paph book, the authors also provide a synopsis of the species not found in China. Their coverage is exactly the same as those found in China save the line drawings and multiple photographs.
-Surprisingly, there isn't an entirely new treatment of the _P. glanduliferum_ complex to join those of Garay/Cribb/Braem etc. They stuck with Cribb's treatment.
-The authors are VERY judicious with the correct usages of form/variety.
-I found the treatment of natural hybrids to be especially enjoyable.
-The authors provide a pretty awesome account of the _P. delenatii_ found growing on limestone in Yunnan. I had only heard whisperings. They include _in-situ_ photos!

Where it falls short:
-RANGE MAPS! There aren't any. You only have a county map of China in the front. These should be required for such monographs!
-The authors are lumpers in the extreme. I'm in favor of recognizing geographic variation no-matter the taxonomic rank. For example, no more _Paph. micranthum_ var. _eburneum_. Similarly, the authors suggest sinking _P. thaianum_ into _P. godefroyae_(??). You get the idea. To each their own, I suppose.
-The authors provided very little historic info on the various species. I suppose that isn't a requirement, but it certainly adds interest.

As a note, the majority of the introduction portions (cultivation, pollination, etc.) of the book are in Chinese. I don't really care about that. I can find that info elsewhere in Cribb's, Averyanov's, or Braem's books.

Bottom line: I'd get it. The photos are great, and the current price is impossible to beat.

I'm sure many of you are wondering where I got it. I purchased mine from yijiawang in this thread: http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13506. The book was shipped from Beijing on Monday and arrived to me in West Virginia on Thursday. That 5-day shipping is pricey, but it is at-cost and extremely fast. The book arrived in the original publisher's shrinkwrap.


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## Roth (Sep 22, 2009)

kentuckiense said:


> I received a copy of this book last week, so I'll write up a little review of sorts.
> 
> -The _in-situ_ photographs are just phenomenal. Almost every species has an _in-situ_ photo, and the vast majority have several. There is even an _in-situ_ photograph of _P. xfanaticum_. These alone make this book worth it for me.
> -Almost all species also have a landscape habitat photo. They really put the species in environmental context.
> -The authors provide a pretty awesome account of the _P. delenatii_ found growing on limestone in Yunnan. I had only heard whisperings. They include _in-situ_ photos!



Waiting for my copy...

In the meantime:

- Many in-situ pictures, similarly to the Paphiopedilum in Vietnam book have never been taken by the authors, but by the collectors, whose are provided with a camera for that purpose. It is sometimes very unclear whether the pictures in Paphs of Vietnam as an example are really in-situ, or plants stuffed in a place and pictures taken. The photo by Averyanov of the paph vietnamense seedling in-situ as an example is bogus like hell...

- There is still no delenatii in Yunnan nowhere. The Chinese traders buy it from Nha Trang and Da Lat by masses every year, and from Nha Trang to China, none has been seen, the distance being over 1000 km. Same for hangianum if it is included in the book as a Chinese species. China claims to have those species in the wild, as they expect to be able to export sooner or later paphs with CITES, so they made such claims.

I bought some Chinese delenatii few years ago, to find out that the trader in Kunming - who is a close friend of Pr. Chen too... - was buying them from Nha Trang. The Nha Trang type of delenatii has a bit smaller leaves, a smaller flower, fragrant. He stills to date claims that those plants are Chineses, but I even know how he gets them to Kunming, so I am not fooled anymore.

I think it is still worthwhile to get Paphs in China, but the habitat data, and geographical distribution must be taken with a grain of salt. To date, I have yet to see a book properly written with the geographical distribution. 

In the maybe not so breaking news, but Paphiopedilum rothschildianum grows very far from the Kinabalu Park as well, and Paphiopedilum ooii is geographically not from Malaysia, but from Indonesia - OK a couple dozen kilometers from Sabah only, but still Indo/Kalimantan, on the way to Longbawan. It is nowhere published. 

I have seen too lately godefroyae being offered from Saigon, that the traders got from Thailand and claim to be local, and China gets a lot of strange stuff that is absolutely not from China too. 

I even doubt that China ever got Paph. tigrinum. I discussed with the man who was the source from Baoshan, Yunnan, for 20 years. He had and still has the total monopoly on that species, and told me he was getting them from the minorities who cross weekly the border from Burma to Baoshan - a town that is quite close. Those minorities come all the time to supply wild orchids in China. He had no idea about the real origin. 

On the other side, he supplied a few pictures of "tigrinum in the wild in China" on several instances, and told me very clearly that they were made by one man from the minorities, who got a camera for that. He had several pictures as well from the set supposedly taken by Philip Cribb, and had an autographed book of the first version of the Genus Paphiopedilum, as well as several photos of a dinner between his family and Philip Cribb... He said he wanted to see tigrinum in the wild and went to his place - a very large storage of jungle paphs - but he eventually did not go to the forest and asked him for the pictures. He clearly recognized pictures quoted as being from Phillip Cribb as being photos taken by his collector, and he even had more of the same clump under various angles. So at least we know the real origin of those photos...


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## edkravcik (Sep 22, 2009)

You can get copies through EBay for $49 plus shipping. I actually bought mine Saturday and received it today (Tuesday). Pretty incredible considering it came from Beijing. Haven't had a chance to really look at it yet.


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## kentuckiense (Sep 23, 2009)

Sanderianum said:


> - There is still no delenatii in Yunnan nowhere. The Chinese traders buy it from Nha Trang and Da Lat by masses every year, and from Nha Trang to China, none has been seen, the distance being over 1000 km. Same for hangianum if it is included in the book as a Chinese species. China claims to have those species in the wild, as they expect to be able to export sooner or later paphs with CITES, so they made such claims.
> 
> I bought some Chinese delenatii few years ago, to find out that the trader in Kunming - who is a close friend of Pr. Chen too... - was buying them from Nha Trang. The Nha Trang type of delenatii has a bit smaller leaves, a smaller flower, fragrant. He stills to date claims that those plants are Chineses, but I even know how he gets them to Kunming, so I am not fooled anymore.



Stranger than fiction. And yes, _P. hangianum_ is listed in that book as from China. Yunnan, if I recall correctly.

Just to clarify, _P. delenatii_ has still only be found in southern Vietnam?


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## Roth (Sep 23, 2009)

kentuckiense said:


> Stranger than fiction. And yes, _P. hangianum_ is listed in that book as from China. Yunnan, if I recall correctly.
> 
> Just to clarify, _P. delenatii_ has still only be found in southern Vietnam?



Delenatii has been found only in central-south Vietnam, around Dalat to Nha Trang.

It's normal about hangianum being listed from China, they have so many plants and hybrids, and it will be a way to legalize their plants. Hangianum never comes close to the Chinese border in fact...


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## kentuckiense (Sep 23, 2009)

Sanderianum said:


> - Many in-situ pictures, similarly to the Paphiopedilum in Vietnam book have never been taken by the authors, but by the collectors, whose are provided with a camera for that purpose. It is sometimes very unclear whether the pictures in Paphs of Vietnam as an example are really in-situ, or plants stuffed in a place and pictures taken. The photo by Averyanov of the paph vietnamense seedling in-situ as an example is bogus like hell...



You're right. I just took a look at Averyanov's book, and a few of the photographs certainly DO look a bit staged to me. However, that may just be the power of suggestion acting.


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## baodai (Sep 23, 2009)

I peronally visited the area where paph hangianum growth from the wild last year. As far as I know, paph hangianum is growing no where near china, the book would be a joke to me if it is claming paph hangianum is species from china.
BD


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## poozcard (Aug 24, 2011)

thank you for information


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## epc (Aug 24, 2011)

Sam Tsui has these books for sale. I got one from him last January. It has some very good paph information in it.


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## NYEric (Aug 25, 2011)

How much?


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## Kavanaru (Aug 25, 2011)

NYEric said:


> How much?



How much money for the book? or How much good information in it? oke:


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## NYEric (Aug 25, 2011)

I would love to have this book but if it cost so much that I cant buy plants forget it!


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## Howzat (Aug 25, 2011)

Is there any bookstore or anyone in Australia who is stocking this book????
Yuan280.00 (AUD45.00) seems fair to me. Even there are comments above suggesting the book is not 'accurate' to say mildly, I like to get one, just to satisfy my curiosity.


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