# Paph rothschildianum 'Mt Millais' FCC/RHS FCC/AOS GM/WOC



## Roth (May 3, 2011)

Plant 78cm
FS 26cm, DS 5.7cm x 6.4cm PL 14cm, PW 2.2cm





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## e-spice (May 3, 2011)

Wow Roth - that's a famous one and beautiful too!


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## Paph_LdyMacBeth (May 3, 2011)

That Roth doesn't have nearly enough titles!


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## poozcard (May 3, 2011)

oh


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## Paphman910 (May 3, 2011)

Wow! Such dark petals and pouch! Must have paid alot of money for a division of it!

Paphman910


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## Justin (May 3, 2011)

oh my, absolutely phenomenal.


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## W. Beetus (May 3, 2011)

Superb! No wonder it has so many awards!


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## Bob in Albany N.Y. (May 3, 2011)

Very, nice roth.


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## Wendy (May 3, 2011)

Oh yeah....that is stupendous! :drool:


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## Heather (May 3, 2011)

We all are trying to be adjective creative tonight, huh!?  

Welcome btw!


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## SlipperKing (May 3, 2011)

Nice indeed. A corner stone to a lot of the superb roth breeding of today! Is this the first time for you to bloom this division? I expect it will hold more flowers on a mature,multi-growth plant.


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## Shiva (May 3, 2011)

Splendid flowers.


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## tenman (May 4, 2011)

Excellent!!


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## Jorch (May 4, 2011)

Major drool-worthy!


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## rdlsreno (May 4, 2011)

Very nice! I love this clone!

Ramon


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## Fabrice (May 4, 2011)

Yes, the famous MM HIMSELF!

I want it in my collection... wonderful!


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## Bolero (May 4, 2011)

Gorgeous! I would happily take that off your hands.........;-) Just if you ever get sick of having it that is........


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## suss16 (May 4, 2011)

I guess all this staring at your Roth we forgot to welcome you to Slippertalk! 

Welcome! and I look forward to seeing more spectacular Paphs!


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## paphioboy (May 4, 2011)

Simply gorgeous!  Love it. Where are you from?


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## Roth (May 4, 2011)

Paphman910 said:


> Wow! Such dark petals and pouch! Must have paid alot of money for a division of it!
> 
> Paphman910



15.000USD. It is the original motherplant from Tokyo Orchid Nursery, 3 BS growths. One division has 1 BS growth and new start, in bloom now. The others are bigger, but will bloom next year. They bought it from the Eric Young in 1989, and it is the real parent of the Val x Mt Millais strain.



SlipperKing said:


> Nice indeed. A corner stone to a lot of the superb roth breeding of today! Is this the first time for you to bloom this division? I expect it will hold more flowers on a mature,multi-growth plant.



It was a multigrowth, but divided for safety. That one is the single growth and start. 

For its GM/WOC it had 5 flowers, FS 31cm. Three years later, in Jersey the flowers eventually reached 34cm. There is a picture with a ruler taken by Alan Moon.


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## quietaustralian (May 4, 2011)

Very nice!!!
I see the image links to Select Orchids. Is this your plant Xavier?


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## chrismende (May 4, 2011)

Wow! What a fabulous piece of history you have there! And what fun to share with all of us! I'm delighted to see the photos and would love to see more!
Congratulations! Take good care of it for all of us!


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## SlipperFan (May 4, 2011)

That is the darkest, richest color on a roth I've seen!

And welcome to Slippertalk!


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## Marc (May 4, 2011)

When there are no words left there are only smileys:

:drool::crazy::smitten:


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## Justin (May 4, 2011)

someday i hope to have the resources to acquire a division of this clone...but that is many years away.


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## carrilloenglish (May 4, 2011)

Classic breeding line. A wonderful division to own.


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## eOrchids (May 4, 2011)

An exceptional clone! :drool:


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## Paul (May 5, 2011)

Still the best one, even if this bloom is under its best for size!!

Many line breedings to come, for sure... ;-)


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## Fabrice (May 5, 2011)

One division for me and all is perfect!oke:


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## Roth (Sep 12, 2011)

Well, I undestand why Mt Millais is an amazing plant

That pictured division had 2 seed capsules finally, the new growth is half mature, and it made another new growth.

The second division 1 old+1BS is going to bloom in a 5 L pot, at least 4 flowers with 3 more new growths started and massive leaves. It dries out the mix within a day, and made roots on the bench already... 

The third division 1old+1BS will bloom in a few months, with 4 more new growths, 2 new growths on the old and two on the new one.

On average all make a leaf a month...

I have grown many roths, from the wild, from seed, divisions, but that's the first time I get something clumping all sides like that with big fat leaves - in fact the leaves here are now looking like the Eric Young plant at the WOC, very dark black green, very wide, very fat. Ll post photos when the second division blooms.

This time it will bloom at the same time as another very famous roth, and the Dou Fong will bloom at last this winter. Looks promising...


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## SlipperKing (Sep 12, 2011)

Sounds great Xavier. I guess with 3 different divisons of this One-of-a-Kind clone you're ready to share the love a round, right? 15K would put a lot of food on the table!


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## Fabrice (Sep 12, 2011)

Cool! You can reserve me one div. please!:evil:

But first, it will be difficult to successfully communicate...


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## peter.orchid (Sep 12, 2011)

wonderful colour!


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## Justin (Sep 12, 2011)

i hope to have a divison someday...


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## Justin (Sep 12, 2011)

i guess i already said that, that's how much i mean it lol


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## Howzat (Sep 12, 2011)

That is wonderful Xavier. How does it compare with your Tarantulla??


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## rdlsreno (Sep 13, 2011)

Excellent!:clap:

Ramon


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## Roth (Sep 15, 2011)

Honestly I want to have way more plants before selling any division... I intend to use it for breeding, as I have a couple other roths that can be paired, and Mt Millais as a pod parent gave much better result than as pollen parent

As a pollen parent, quite a bit of the progeny is excellent, as a pod parent, nearly all the seedlings are good, like Mt Millais x Nan Chou, Mt Millais x Val ( that gave most of the GM roths from the TON, the Val x Mt Millais being very good too, but with a lower percentage of excellent ones), the Lady Isable from the Eric Young (unsurpassed as of today, even if the stonei was low quality, but Mt Millais was the pod parent), the Gloria Naugle from EYOF and its crazy hybrid with vietnamense, etc...

About Tarentula, and the other awarded roths, they are amazing, BUT in fact they are improved Mt Millais, not really something 'brand new'. I found even the key to the improvement. Mt Millais has thin roots, and lighter color leaves. It can make flowers up to 34cm, petals 2.2cm ( that's what I got, so I imagine they can be wider on an older plant...), and a dorsal that is similar to most if not all modern FCC/GM roths. There are really few FCC roths if any that are superior in sizes IF Mt Millais is grown in rockwool (or orchiata, but with very careful feeding...).

When bred with Val, it makes seedlings that have a kind of hybrid vigor. The root system, like for Tarentula, is stronger, leaves are darker green (similar to Val). They can grow traditionally to have flowers up to 30-32 cm. With meikakke and some other culture skills, the flowers can reach 38-40cm.

I think in rockwool such a plant can go over 45cm flowerspan. On the other side, I was interested in Tarentula and others GM roths for the 'prestige'. 

Mt Millais is the plant behind all of that, Val or Rex are in fact not so good and not so nice, they were only growth boosters, and eventually correcting one very minor defect of Mt Millais ( the slightly pinched dorsal, but I like it...). In fact Rex washed out the color in most of its progeny...

For fun, the TON offered to me Rex 3 mature growths and starts for I think 2000USD if I remember correctly... 

When using Dou Fong, a vini roth, or a 40cm naturally flowered jungle roth (got two different, soon three...), as a pollen parent, the progeny will be superior, so I just have to be patient to get the next roth standard ( and maybe AQ hehe...). 

I am doing as well a lot of primaries, there are quite a few seed caps on the way already, and the germination rate of the first ones is pretty impressive. 

The selfing has been harvested and took two weeks to germinate. I will make tetraploids out of those only, to keep the EYOF tradition alive ( they did 4n counted roth, that were absolutely amazing..., selfings of Mt Millais).


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## Fabrice (Sep 15, 2011)

Please contact me for the future generation of your roths.

But there's something I don't understand... The last time you talked to me about rockwool, you told me it was the worst mix to grow the genus paphiopedilum, because very difficult to master it. You told me also the deficencies (yellow leaves for example) were very common and the majority of paphiopedilum plants died in some months or years in rockwool.

So, when I read your last post, it's contradictory, no?

Maybe is it because you change your mind when you see the good results of a common friend (irony)...?


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## e-spice (Sep 15, 2011)

Roth said:


> With meikakke and some other culture skills, the flowers can reach 38-40cm.
> 
> I think in rockwool such a plant can go over 45cm flowerspan. On the other side, I was interested in Tarentula and others GM roths for the 'prestige'.



Thanks for your very informative post Borat.

What is meikakke? I don't believe it is possible for a roth to grow to 40-cm NS, let alone 45-cm, unless meikakke is something that is highly radioactive


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## Howzat (Sep 15, 2011)

Xavier, if you talk about this subject at next AOC Sept 2012, you will have the whole hall full. In fact by then you will have cross sib, selfings of MM or other primaries flasks that you can offer and I can guarantee a complete sale.
It is always a fascinating story about rothschildianum evolution. Between you and TON (Takahashi), roths has been darker and larger. 20 years ago a 26-30cm roths would get an FCC. And the dorsal is now 7cm ????


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## Roth (Sep 15, 2011)

Fabrice said:


> Please contact me for the future generation of your roths.
> 
> But there's something I don't understand... The last time you talked to me about rockwool, you told me it was the worst mix to grow the genus paphiopedilum, because very difficult to master it. You told me also the deficencies (yellow leaves for example) were very common and the majority of paphiopedilum plants died in some months or years in rockwool.
> 
> ...



Email comiiiing....

For the rockwool, in fact the old type, Greenmix, could be managed, it was very technical, but that type was not so difficult. Though the Eric Young could grow roth, Lady Isabel, but not the others multis, and no other paph species or maudiae/complex hybrids in it ( they used even then bark). Greenmix was a wool, water repellent, water absorbent, plus lignin and another clay type added, and was made of very high quality materials. Paphsmokeajoint used Greenmix very well, but when it came to the growcubes, he had to go back to bark...

The Growcube are industrial, there are a lot of problems associated with them, not only with orchids. Some growers using it in France clealy have some other tricks ( like some fungicides, etc...) to keep the things working, and it is a very high risk thing. This said, rockwool can be used like a dopant to see the maximum potential of a plant for a specific purpose, but not for general care. The risks far outperform the benefits of using it, and a bark/orchiata based mix can anyway perform the same, if not better than rockwool for that purpose. Growcubes apparently decompose too, something the Greenmix did not do, and according to one of their sales rep, they are made of new rock + a percentage of recycling, which could explain the unstability of some batches.



e-spice said:


> Thanks for your very informative post Borat.
> 
> What is meikakke? I don't believe it is possible for a roth to grow to 40-cm NS, let alone 45-cm, unless meikakke is something that is highly radioactive



40cm NS exists, I got two plants, there has been one awarded in England as well a decade ago with 38.5, went to 40. There is (sorry, since I went there WAS ) another roth in Malaysia with a 40cm+ NS. Those are naturally grown roths. The RHS has a record of a ca.43cm roth, awarded in the 20's as well.

Now, Meikkake consists of the removal of some growths, and some flower stems, to optimize fewer flower spikes. There are added things to do ( specific fertilizer schedule, high temperature to force the spike to stay in the crown and get bigger, before a cold drop to push the flowering, etc...). It is very complicated, and art like bonsai making. The plant usually does not like it too much 

I have seen a roth in Taiwan with a dorsal over 8cm. It was a clump, all flower spikes removed, the second new growth of the blooming growth cut above the ground ( still leaving the stump and its roots), and the flower bud removed when the spike was young... except 1. The dorsal was in exceed of 8cm width. I think it can be possible, by perfect culture, to get such a plant to naturally bloom to this size, but in this case, it was really not natural ( and it was a Rex x MM clump).


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## paphioboy (Sep 16, 2011)

iMH, meikkake would be the equivalent of pinching multiple growth, allowing only a single lead new shoot to develop to full potential. The Japanese use this technique for exhibition type cattleyas to keep them in shape and also give super large flowers, along with the proper nutrition etc..


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## Roth (Sep 16, 2011)

paphioboy said:


> iMH, meikkake would be the equivalent of pinching multiple growth, allowing only a single lead new shoot to develop to full potential. The Japanese use this technique for exhibition type cattleyas to keep them in shape and also give super large flowers, along with the proper nutrition etc..



Well that's what they call meikkake... Except that for cattleya they go further, and use sometimes orthopedic equipment to an unbelievable extent, removing it to show a perfect shape that can only exist in dreams or artificially...

They have as well Bukkake, but for that one google it or I'll get fired from the forum.


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## Marco (Sep 16, 2011)

Roth said:


> They have as well Bukkake, but for that one google it or I'll get fired from the forum.



A Japanese method of serving various types of noodles


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## Marc (Sep 16, 2011)

Uhm if I ever come in a restaurant that serves Bukkake noodles I'm probably ending up running out of the restaurant and throwing up.


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## Roth (Sep 16, 2011)

Marco said:


> A Japanese method of serving various types of noodles



That's correct, McDonald's Hamburger in the US, Bukkake Furburgers in Japan


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## JC94030 (Sep 26, 2011)

Roth, can you say something more about the 4n EYOF roth?
Does a picture exist?
Thanks,
JC


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## Pete (Sep 27, 2011)

Roth said:


> That's correct, McDonald's Hamburger in the US, Bukkake Furburgers in Japan



:ninja:


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