# Phal. gratrixianum



## Chien (Nov 28, 2009)

4 flowers
I like its form, but I prefer purple or pink colors, not this kind of coloroke:


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## Bob in Albany N.Y. (Nov 28, 2009)

Good to see you back by friend. As always a nice looking plant. 

I've been busy repotting my whole greenhouse. I've moved way from Semi-hydroponics and back into bark. I bet I'll see an improvement in a few months. 

Chien, please share some more of your plants with us. We all love the photos.


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## Hera (Nov 28, 2009)

This one looks like it would have potantial as a breeder because of the rounder, more compact shape. Anyone care to comment?


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## Pete (Nov 28, 2009)

ya sure. the dorsals not so pinched as you often see, basally. that _might_ make for nicer hybrids..


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## SlipperKing (Nov 28, 2009)

I'm not convinced it gratrixianum. It looks like a hybrid between barbigerum and gratrixianum to me.


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## Rick (Nov 28, 2009)

SlipperKing said:


> I'm not convinced it gratrixianum. It looks like a hybrid between barbigerum and gratrixianum to me.




It's definitely a lot different from the other gratrixianums we've seen lately. The dorsals have almost no spots at all, and very consistent from flower to flower, so not just an individual flower fluke. 

I was thinking more along the lines of some of the villosum varieties out there.

Do you know anything about the history of this plant Chien?


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## Kevin (Nov 28, 2009)

Very unusual looking *PHAL.* oke: I do agree that it doesn't look like the typical Paph. gratrixianum.


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## Chien (Nov 28, 2009)

Kevin said:


> Very unusual looking *PHAL.* oke: I do agree that it doesn't look like the typical Paph. gratrixianum.


Haha, recently my mind is full of a special Phal. lindenii, so I typed the wrong name on this Paph. Please forgive me.


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## SlipperFan (Nov 28, 2009)

So, what is the right name???


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## biothanasis (Nov 28, 2009)

Great colouration!!!!


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## Chien (Nov 29, 2009)

My friend bought this one from BangkoK, he also bought another one for me.






I think the second one is more close to so called 'typical' gratrixianum that we often see.
Does gratrixianum must have sopts on dorsal?

Let's see another collection of my friend.




On this one there is no dot!

I think it is not villosum. Most gratrixianums I've seen have erect leaves, and the leaves of villosum are soft and not very erect. Compare this plant to other gratrixianum, they have many characters in common, and different from villosum or barbigerum.

So if you asked me what it is, I'll say it is Paph. gratrixianum.


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## etex (Nov 29, 2009)

Nice blooms. I love the first one you posted the most! It is a beauty!!If you get tired of it,I would be happy to give it a home!!


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## Chien (Nov 29, 2009)

Hera said:


> This one looks like it would have potantial as a breeder because of the rounder, more compact shape. Anyone care to comment?



I crossed this one to another special gratrixianum 'Sweet Wild Berry'









Hope I can get flasks soon:wink:


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## Roth (Nov 29, 2009)

Chien said:


> Let's see another collection of my friend.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have seen plants like that in the trade as villosum var. annamense. They come from Nha Trang, and the leaves are indeed very erect.

The gratrixianum from Sapa have very wide broad leaves that are dropping, but the laichauense, which is couple dozen kilometers, are closer to villosum and with extremely erect, rough leaves. The gratrixianum var. daoense have yellowish leaves and are much smaller plants overall, the gratrixianum from Nha Trang are referred usually to affine, but in Nha Trang there are some villosum var. annamense as well.

In Laos they have gratrixianum with thick very hard corrugated leaves, and in China, villosum with narrow leaves. 

The whole group hybridizes with whatever comes close, I would think that yours from that post might well be a gratrixianum x coccineum, coming from Sa Pa, as the coccineum from Sa Pa are very close to what we called barbigerum in the trade years before, and they hybridize with gratrixianum definitely. It's a very beautiful plant that you have anyway.

The Sweet Wild Berry could well be gratrixianum x coccineum the small reddish type from Son La...

I have seen natural hybrids swamps here, so those species on one side differentiate, and on the other side are doing natural hybrids, it's very complicated to know what's what nowadays.


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## Rick (Nov 29, 2009)

Sanderianum said:


> I have seen natural hybrids swamps here, so those species on one side differentiate, and on the other side are doing natural hybrids, it's very complicated to know what's what nowadays.



Do you mean hybrid swarms? It sure seems like a swamp thoughoke:oke:

One big gooey taxonomic mess.

If it really is that messy if may be that only one true highly variable species (vilosum) with many local variations, rather than several "species" with many varieties and natural hybrids.


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## Hera (Nov 29, 2009)

Love the color of Sweet Wild Berry. I saw a gratrixianum cross last year that had shades of lavender. Too bad you're so far away, I'd be begging for seedlings otherwise.


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## NYEric (Nov 29, 2009)

Hera said:


> Love the color of Sweet Wild Berry. I saw a gratrixianum cross last year that had shades of lavender. Too bad you're so far away, _*I'd be begging for seedlings otherwise.*_



Go ahead! :evil:


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## Ernie (Nov 30, 2009)

In a fit of late-night, Steelers-just-lost in OT again, gotta get to bed-ness... I've decided the villosum complex is like African Rift Lake Cichlids--- evolving before our eyes. 

-Ernie

P.S. Yes, 11:30 _is_ late to the dad of a three-year-old. 

P.P.S. Paula Farris (sports) and Ginger Zee (weather) are the hottest ladies in Chicago newscasting. Thanks NBC 5!


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## Roth (Nov 30, 2009)

The villosum annamense laichauense gratrixianum coccineum story is very complicated indeed. They breed between themselves to make big colonies, on the other side, they have geographical variants that are extremely segregated in some mountains. Laichauense grows- sorry grew - only on a couple of mountains near Lai Chau. The coccineum that has the size of helenae and red flowers only 2-3 mountains in Son La, and a couple other mountains in Moc Chau.

The gratrixianum from Hoang Lien Son/Sapa are very distinctive in some of the colonies - including the now overcollected colony of Fansipan.

They breed together, even outside of their groups, occasionnally with henryanum, helenae...

BUT

Paphiopedilum sukhakhulii and callosum grow together by the hundreds of thousands, as well with appletonianum in the middle of them. It is as common as dandelion in Laos, plenty, everywhere. They bloom quite frequently at the same time in the wild. 

The only thing we have seen in cultivation so far were a very few - maybe 10 over 20 years real plants - xSiamense, callosum x appletonianum. 

Never, ever, has a plant of sukhakhulii x callosum been collected. Looking at the insects that come in my place on those flowers, there are quite a few different pollinators, nothing specific. I have seen wasps, bees, flies... going out of sukhakhulii and callosum.

As for this villosum group, I treat it a bit differently nowadays. What does not fit perfectly well in a group like affine, helenae, laichauense, boxallii... goes in the villosum or gratrixianum, former if it has no spots, latter if it has spots, with a reference to the original place, let other people arrange the taxonomy. I avoid to get plants that do not have an history back to the wild.


I really like Chien first plant... Definitely it has very good potential for breeding, and it is charming by itself...


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## goldenrose (Nov 30, 2009)

SlipperKing said:


> I'm not convinced it gratrixianum. It looks like a hybrid between barbigerum and gratrixianum to me.


:clap: :clap:so cute, so charming, adorable but ...
I'd have to agree with Rick.


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## KyushuCalanthe (Dec 1, 2009)

Sweet Wild Berry is just that, sweet!


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