# Crazy leggy Paphiopedilum



## Happypaphy7 (Aug 16, 2022)

When a Paphiopedilum suddenly thinks it is a bamboo stick! 
Jokes aside, it had been growing normally for the first few years, but then 
Three new growths have grown in this fashion in the last 1.5 year. 

Yes, it is getting plenty of light where other plants are happy. The growing conditions have not changed.
I’m thinking of bagging up the plant to encourage those nobs grow into roots, then cut them off & pot up.
I don’t think I want to bury the whole thing as is. What do you think?
I’m going to have to “save” this because look at the flower this plant makes!


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## Markhamite (Aug 16, 2022)

That colour is gorgeous!


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## Happypaphy7 (Aug 16, 2022)

Markhamite said:


> That colour is gorgeous!


Right? I love it and that's why I'm trying to "correct" this issue. Otherwise, I wouldn't bother. lol


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## CarlG (Aug 16, 2022)

You say that they get plenty of light, but is that at the top of the plant, or down where the new growths start? That may be the cause...


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## TyroneGenade (Aug 16, 2022)

What type of light is it getting? Maybe it isn't an issue with light quantity but quality? Also what ferts are you using.

I also have a Maudiae hybrid with slightly leggy growth. Perhaps we have something in common?

I am using artificial light: a cheap LED grow lamp. I am using klite but only recently started to fertilize seriously. The plants get 12 hrs of light.


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## Happypaphy7 (Aug 16, 2022)

CarlG said:


> You say that they get plenty of light, but is that at the top of the plant, or down where the new growths start? That may be the cause...


Please note that I said that the growing conditions have not changed.
The light is the same everywhere since it is natural light by the way.
I have two plants from this batch. The other plant looks "normal".


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## Happypaphy7 (Aug 16, 2022)

TyroneGenade said:


> What type of light is it getting? Maybe it isn't an issue with light quantity but quality? Also what ferts are you using.
> 
> I also have a Maudiae hybrid with slightly leggy growth. Perhaps we have something in common?
> 
> I am using artificial light: a cheap LED grow lamp. I am using klite but only recently started to fertilize seriously. The plants get 12 hrs of light.


It is in the natural light, the best kind. 
The growing conditions have not changed, so that does not explain this sudden change in growing habit.
I also have one Magic Lantern that did this and I have a few Magic Lantern. No others do this. Go figure!

The only time when my plant did this and it made sense was my Armeni White. 
It grew many growths fast in its first three years after its very first bloom. Then, once the plant got too bushy for the newer growths, only then new growths will make this long "stem" to rise above the already existing growths which were over 20! 

This plant in this post is doing this way too soon as there still is plenty of space for the new growths to take up. so I'm puzzled why it is suddenly doing this. 
I just hope it will start sending up new growths from the base of the plant again once I try and correct the current condition.


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## Tom Reddick (Aug 16, 2022)

What a beautiful flower! And despite the unusual growth - at least the plant has plenty of vigor. The leaves all look great- top to bottom.

I have seen this before, if not to this degree, but I also note as you pointed out that new roots are coming out all up and down the stalk at the base of each leaf.

And so my inclination is that maybe this needs repotting- perhaps it is rootbound or maybe for some one-off reason the plant is not liking the growing medium in its present state (which I cannot discern from the photos.)

So my suggestion would be to repot and see if that helps. And if you would consider a pollen exchange next year, I think I may have the perfect plant to make a cross!


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## Happypaphy7 (Aug 17, 2022)

Tom Reddick said:


> What a beautiful flower! And despite the unusual growth - at least the plant has plenty of vigor. The leaves all look great- top to bottom.
> 
> I have seen this before, if not to this degree, but I also note as you pointed out that new roots are coming out all up and down the stalk at the base of each leaf.
> 
> ...


It does need repotting as it has never been repotted. I got it as a blooming size seedling in 2016. who knows how long it had been in the pot but I would think at least one to two years at the nursery. 
The thing is though, I don't think this strange growth pattern change has much to do, if at all, with the potting mix being old as most of my paphs are in very old mix and nearly none show this kind of growth. 
Also, the sibling plant I got at the same time is not like this at all. 
It truly is strange! 

Anyway, what are you going to mate it with? You don't have to reveal if it's a secret. 
I was thinking of injecting yet another shot of charlesworthii as I have a very nice dark red one.


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## GuRu (Aug 17, 2022)

HP7, I don't think the growing conditions caused the problem. I suppose, the cause is in the genes of some single plants..... for example have a look at Slipperking's P. delenatii tree


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## Happypaphy7 (Aug 17, 2022)

GuRu said:


> HP7, I don't think the growing conditions caused the problem. I suppose, the cause is in the genes of some single plants..... for example have a look at Slipperking's P. delenatii tree


I remember that plant! One of my Magic Lantern looked like that and I tossed it. lol
Yeah, as I have already mentioned, I don't think it has anything to do with the growing conditions.


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## southernbelle (Aug 17, 2022)

Maybe not an issue causing this, but (now deceased) Hadley Cash recommended going no longer than 2 years between repots of Paphs for healthy plants. If nothing else, a breakdown of the mix causes root rot because plant stays wet too long, and if using Orchiata, it becomes acidic at year 4, exponentially so thereafter. This from Keith Davis through UNC testing that was done.


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## Happypaphy7 (Aug 17, 2022)

southernbelle said:


> Maybe not an issue causing this, but (now deceased) Hadley Cash recommended going no longer than 2 years between repots of Paphs for healthy plants. If nothing else, a breakdown of the mix causes root rot because plant stays wet too long, and if using Orchiata, it becomes acidic at year 4, exponentially so thereafter. This from Keith Davis through UNC testing that was done.


I agree with the idea behind repotting. However, I find that it is not necessary to repot plants too often.
Under greenhouse or other enclosure setup where the humidity stays high all the time, repeated watering will cause the potting mix to go "bad" faster and thus would require more frequent repotting.
I grow indoor and things dry bone crisp within three days after watering. Also, I water thoroughly and I believe this has a lot to do with why most of my plants look good and grow well even in very old potting mix. At the time of repotting, potting mix rarely crumble into bits, which indicates that they stay in fairly good conditions.
These are orchiata. With the red brown ones, Douglas fir bark I believe, they become completely mushy at the time of repotting in my experience. I don't use Douglas Fir bark but some plants coming from certain nursery are always potted in this material. It works well for them, or for anyone as along as they are changed every 1-2 years, I guess. 

I have many paphs in the same old potting mix for almost ten years. Some are older than ten! They all look great. 
I do try and repot my plants for about every three four years. I just don't like repotting and when I do repot, it is usually because the plants have grown too big and need more space. 
So, the bottom line is that I'm not a frequent repotter and I don't believe frequent repotting is necessary in my experience, but at the same time, I'm not asking people to do the same. Just saying that such frequent repotting may not be such a big deal as some people make it out to be. I don't have a single plant of any kind that I repot every 2 years. Probably not even 3 years!


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## Cearbhael (Aug 17, 2022)

Never could figure out why some paphs and Phrags do this! I am told the Phrags are descended from plants that crawl uphill in the mountains. Maybe this is true of Paphs as well! I know it is not a good situation and getting them to root is difficult (lost one due to that and the Paph expert I consulted was unable to give me any proper advice) Phrag owners will often tray culture their climbers


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## Happypaphy7 (Aug 18, 2022)

Cearbhael said:


> Never could figure out why some paphs and Phrags do this! I am told the Phrags are descended from plants that crawl uphill in the mountains. Maybe this is true of Paphs as well! I know it is not a good situation and getting them to root is difficult (lost one due to that and the Paph expert I consulted was unable to give me any proper advice) Phrag owners will often tray culture their climbers


I know that Phragmipedium besseae among others grow crawling around in steep wet slopes and cliffs. 
I'm not sure if any of the species involved in this hybrid does that in the wild. They are callosum, lawrenceanum, sukhakulii, wardii, curtisii, purpuratum, mastersianum and charlesworthii. I have seen photos of hainanense (appletonium?) growing slightly leffy on the wet humus rich slope in the wild but nothing dramatic. 
So, I have no idea why this is happening. Annoying to deal with for sure!


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## Tom Reddick (Aug 29, 2022)

Happypaphy7 said:


> Anyway, what are you going to mate it with? You don't have to reveal if it's a secret.
> I was thinking of injecting yet another shot of charlesworthii as I have a very nice dark red one.



Apologies for the delayed reply- work has been crazy. What I have in mind is to cross it with the Petula's Wood I recently got awarded (it is posted in the Judging forum.) The flower on my plant is very large and the petals are quite broad and. The dorsal is pretty but it is a bit more twisted than I would like. Overalll it is a very nice flame coloratum type.

The fun of crossing with your plant is that we inject a bit more red color in there plus the charlesworthii dorsal which could improve things. And yours also has good broad petals. If you are interested, I am happy to reach out in the spring when this blooms again. Would offer a stud fee or a share of flasks- whatever you like. Somehow I really think this could be an interesting pairing.


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## likespaphs (Aug 30, 2022)

Years ago, there was a member of this forum who "cloned" a similar plant. It was truly cloning, but I think he called it that.
I'm pretty sure that they took a similar plant, noticed roots growing in the leaf axis, cut it below that and grew them all on. 
Not sure how they did...


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## Happypaphy7 (Sep 1, 2022)

Tom Reddick said:


> Apologies for the delayed reply- work has been crazy. What I have in mind is to cross it with the Petula's Wood I recently got awarded (it is posted in the Judging forum.) The flower on my plant is very large and the petals are quite broad and. The dorsal is pretty but it is a bit more twisted than I would like. Overalll it is a very nice flame coloratum type.
> 
> The fun of crossing with your plant is that we inject a bit more red color in there plus the charlesworthii dorsal which could improve things. And yours also has good broad petals. If you are interested, I am happy to reach out in the spring when this blooms again. Would offer a stud fee or a share of flasks- whatever you like. Somehow I really think this could be an interesting pairing.


It's alright. My turn to apologize for such a late reply. 
I will save pollen on its next bloom and send it to you for your breeding plans.
I am wanting to cross this back onto charlesworthii and see what I get. I have a friend who has a very nice charlesworthii, so I just have to wait.


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## Happypaphy7 (Sep 1, 2022)

likespaphs said:


> Years ago, there was a member of this forum who "cloned" a similar plant. It was truly cloning, but I think he called it that.
> I'm pretty sure that they took a similar plant, noticed roots growing in the leaf axis, cut it below that and grew them all on.
> Not sure how they did...


As in mericloning?? 
Some paphs would grow like crazy weed and one can make multiple of them quite fast. 
I have seen insigne, villosum, spicerianum and even some very old (maudiae x section Paphiopedilum) type hybrids that do this.


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## DrLeslieEe (Nov 23, 2022)

What a gorgeous flower! One of the few Paph hybrids I like. 

Let me know if the top cuttings works out. I’d love to trade a piece of this! 

And yes cross back to charlesworthii or to a bigger rounder hangianum hybrid with a touch of pink/red to increase size of petals.


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## troy (Nov 23, 2022)

I hate it when they do that…..I have a longipetalum that does this right next to a couple other plants that are normal…all the variables are the same with all the plants….this leggy growth a complete mystery…


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