# Judging Qualifications for Paphs and Partial Blooms



## Papaholic (Mar 23, 2011)

Hello everyone.
I figure somone here in the forum will know the answer to this one. I have a Paph ( phillipinense ) I would like to enter for judging this weekend at the Chicago Botanic Garden Orchid Show but I don't want to drive over two hours to register the plant and find out it won't qualify.
I have two stems one has 5 buds with one flower open and the second stem has 6 buds [ 7 if you count the terminal bud which won't open] with 3 flowers open and one starting to open. 
How many of the flowers would need to be open for it to be judged? All? Some? I'm doing this for the first time and any advice is greatly appreciated.
Oh..The plant is large. It has appx 9 to 10 mature growths and 3 starters. Don't know if that matters or not.
Any pointers on entering the plant is also welcome.
Thanks all in advance to any replies.
Papaholic


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## Rick (Mar 23, 2011)

I think for local ribbon judging it doesn't make a difference how many flowers are open. You are just competing against the other multifloral species plants that get brought into the show on that day.

If you want the plant considered for AOS judging, I think it needs 75% of buds open on one inflorescence to be fully open for consideration for quality awards, and you probably need the bulk of them open for a cultural award. Keep in mind that there is A LOT of AOS award history on this species. So for AOS awards you are competing against records that date back many years for plants all around the country. So for this species you need something truly outstanding (size, color, number of flowers)to even get the judges to score the plant for "qualifying" for AOS quality and cultural awards.

If your primary reason to enter the show is to be competitive, I doubt this plant is ready. But for the companionship of the show and the hosting society, or the learning experience I think shows are invaluable.

Are you a member any Orchid society? Is that society putting up a society display or are you entering the single plant as an independent? Both are valid ways to enter the plant at a show, but this plant may have more importance to the overall quality of group display rather than as a single plant on the walk in table.

Also most judges I've met are happy to give feedback on plants that may not be in score able condition. They may also show you how to access some the records software so you can research the past AOS awards records and determine yourself whether or not you have a competitive plant.


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## Ernie (Mar 23, 2011)

For AOS judging, the more flowers open the better IMO. Some say at least half, some say 75%. The Handbook says, "The inflorescence should be mature enough to show the full potential of the flower or flowers." Honestly, it just matters what team it goes to. Multiflorals are at their full glory when most of the flowers are open. That's the whole point- they're MULTIflorals!  Honestly, if I saw this plant before me, I'd probably deem it unjudged- i'd rather see it with more open. However, if the individual flower quality is spectacular, I could see myself bending a little. So, If you really think it has a shot at an AOS award, I'd skip the show and walk it directly into Chicago's monthly judging at the Gardens the second Saturday coming up (April 9 or May 14). That should give it enough time to open up some more buds. 

If you send it to the show with your local club, the chances of it getting "pulled" are lower. You are relying on one of the judges to recognize it as worthy enough to pull it from the display. Lots of good things get overlooked at shows just due to the sheer volume of plants to look at. Also, flowers often get dinged up when some poor soul has to tote a van full of other peoples' plants and set up a display. No dogging the volunteers! They are great, but expect petal tips to get damaged or dry at the minimum. So, if it goes to the show and is worthy, I'd guess the team would say "we deemed it unjudged based on the maturity of the inflorescence" and it'd come back to you a little beat up with a note to bring it to the next monthly judging. (The Chi crowd does this a lot, I used to be part of that Center- it's a fair thing for the exhibitor, but travels will usually make it not worth sending back unless it is packed with great care). 

You could also just carry it to the show and enter it directly into AOS judging, foregoing the ribbon bit altogether. But if you're going to carry it in, better to wait until it's giving a full show. 

Where the heck are you? There could be another center close by?


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## Darin (Mar 24, 2011)

Not sure which direction you are from Chicago. If you are to the east there is the Cincinnati Judging Center that meets on the 2nd Sunday and the Great Lakes Judging Center (Ann Arbor) that meets on the 3rd Saturday of each month. Either of those would be an option for you. 

IMHO, if you think it is award worthy, getting it to a monthly judging center is a better option than a show as the judges have more time and resources at their disposal to really look at the merits of the plant to consider it for nomination.


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## Kevin (Mar 24, 2011)

Ernie said:


> If you send it to the show with your local club, the chances of it getting "pulled" are lower. You are relying on one of the judges to recognize it as worthy enough to pull it from the display. Lots of good things get overlooked at shows just due to the sheer volume of plants to look at.



Yes, but can't exhibitors request that their plant be pulled for consideration? That way you can have it in the show and also see what the judges have to say about your plant. I'm pretty sure that's how we do it at our show, but it might depend on which AOS judges you have.


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## cnycharles (Mar 24, 2011)

Our show is small enough that all plants get looked at, if it is a nice one. ... and if it had one really nice flower, they would give it a chance, though like already said if there are tons of plants and only one open flower, more likely it might get pulled and then passed for maturity (or just passed over)


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## Papaholic (Mar 24, 2011)

Thank you all for the helpful (and quick) replies.
After reading what everyone had to say, I think my best course of action will be to wait a bit and take it to the Apr 9 judging at the Botanic Gardens when all the flowers are open. By then it will be for sure.
In the meantime, I will try to take a few pics over the weekend and post them if anyone here is curious to see the plant. I'm a newbie at this so I cannot say for sure how "good" the plant is other than I've seen shabby flowers, some that look good and others that I myself have been wowed with. Beyond that, that's where my expertise ends. I figure photos will tell a lot more. Once again, thank you all for the VERY helpful input and direction you have given me.
Papaholic


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## Ernie (Mar 24, 2011)

Kevin said:


> Yes, but can't exhibitors request that their plant be pulled for consideration? That way you can have it in the show and also see what the judges have to say about your plant. I'm pretty sure that's how we do it at our show, but it might depend on which AOS judges you have.



I personally have no problems with someone whispering in my ear to pull a plant. Some might frown on that though. It's best to have a non-owner pass the word since judges aren't supposed to know the identity of the plant's owner. (although, honestly, more times than not at our local shows/judging we know the owner just by what genus it is or what display it's in, or what type of media, pot...).


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## SlipperFan (Mar 24, 2011)

Ernie said:


> ... (although, honestly, more times than not at our local shows/judging we know the owner just by what genus it is or what display it's in, or what type of media, pot...).



I think that's true here, also. I like to think most judges are above judging a plant based on who it belongs to.


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## Darin (Mar 24, 2011)

SlipperFan said:


> I think that's true here, also. I like to think most judges are above judging a plant based on who it belongs to.



True here as well, though our ethics preclude us from taking that into consideration when judging a plant. Doing otherwise would devalue the entire system. The plant has to stand on its own merits regardless of ownership.


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## emydura (Mar 24, 2011)

So you don't ask for a plant to be judged? You just take it to a show and the judges will award it if they think it is good enough? I'm confused what the process is in Australia. The one plant I have had awarded I had to beg to get it judged.

David


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## Rick (Mar 24, 2011)

emydura said:


> So you don't ask for a plant to be judged? You just take it to a show and the judges will award it if they think it is good enough? I'm confused what the process is in Australia. The one plant I have had awarded I had to beg to get it judged.
> 
> David



In the US there are shows and regional judging centers.

Shows are put on by societies that invite judges to look at the plants where they compete for local ribbon awards or national AOS awards ( the quality and cultural awards like AM, FCC, CCE ....). A show could have from 100 to 1000+ plants. The invited judges blitz through the entries and give out 1st, 2nd, 3rd place ribbons to the best plants in the various classes. During that initial screening, if they see something really outstanding or interesting, they "pull" the plant for team judging and scoring against the AOS awards database.

In addition if you feel a plant that wasn't "pulled" in a show is worthy of being judged you can put in a special request.

My experience is that less than 10% of the plants going to shows get pulled, and maybe 5% get awarded. Even though almost every one can get a ribbon award at a small show. To make things interesting though, there is no requirement to give a plant a ribbon even if it is the only plant entered in its class, so it is not uncommon with underrepresented classes to see no first place but only second and third place ribbons given out. I've even seen a case when none of the three plants entered in a class got a ribbon at all. 

The judging centers are different. The regional judges assigned to a regional center meet (more or less) monthly at designated locations. Individuals may bring in plants to be judged at these monthly meetings of the judges. The number of plants coming into the monthly judging center is much smaller than what typically shows up to a show, and the number of judges present can be greater than the number attending a show. So your odds of your plant getting full attention are obviously much higher at a judging center than a show.

My experience at judging centers is that there is a higher rate of plants getting awarded, but the bulk of plants are brought in by judges or breeders, who already have a good handle on what the awards history/standards is for a given plant and wouldn't bring in a plant that wasn't competitive to start with.

There are few software packages out there for reviewing awards records, such as AQ+ or WildCatt. In some ways its almost disheartening, when you look through the old awards records of popular species, and find out that your 35 flower Phal stuartiana that you've been nurturing for 5 years is still a baby compared to a 1980 AM record that had over 100 flowers.


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## Howzat (Mar 25, 2011)

Hi guys.
Don't really know the AOS standard judging of a plant judged at blue ribbon/competitionion or at an award judging.
But in Australia the AOC judging for multiflora (for both competition and award judging) is that it should have at least 3 flowers open and should represent 66% of the total (open flower and buds). So if there are 3 open and there are 2 more buds, then it won't be judged and given an "insufficient flower count" note and signed by at least 2 judges.
Your plants philippinenses with 2 spike one with 5 and the other 6 is worth consideration,. I would love to see a photo sent here.


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## Papaholic (Mar 27, 2011)

Wow, I guess I touched on an interesting and popular topic here with all the replies. Anyways, as a response to the last posting by fellow member Howzat, I just uploaded some images of the plant. it is in this forums paph pics and I titled my posting as " Paph Philippinense - first good display". I would love to get feedback from anyone here who would be interested in looking at the pics.
At least I'll know if I would be wasting my time or not.
All critiques are cordially invited!!!!
Thanks again all.
Papaholic


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