# Phrag. dalessandroi??



## Drorchid (Sep 1, 2010)

We have this plant, which is labeled as Phrag. dalessandroi ('Echo' x 'Doug Pulley'). It originated from Terry Root's breeding at the OZ. Doing some reserch on the internet, there is some speculation that this actually may be a sib cross between two Phrag. Jersey's (dalessandroi x besseae). Any thoughts? 
I still have not seen any true Phrag. dalessandroi in true life, so got all excited when I saw this plant in-bud. It does have the non-stolon forming habit. Also note the very dark red staminodal shield.






















Robert


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## Rick (Sep 1, 2010)

It has the narrower droopy petals you often see with Dalesandro.

Maybe just to early or young yet to see a branching infloresences.


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## Phragmatic (Sep 1, 2010)

I had this sib cross in my collection a few years ago. the plant was growing like a normal ''climbing'' Besseae rather than a clumpy dalessandroi and the flower looked as the one you posted. IMO, I doubt it could be a real dalessandroi.


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## Shiva (Sep 1, 2010)

Real or not, it is still beautiful! Nice pics!


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## Chuck (Sep 1, 2010)

I don't know if this helps, but, this is a Phrag Jersey that came from the Eric Young Foundation years ago.




The petals and the staminod seem very different.


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## SlipperKing (Sep 1, 2010)

The staminodes are complete opposites of each other. So maybe Robert.


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## e-spice (Sep 1, 2010)

Using my limited knowledge, it looks too red and the petals are a tad too full to be dalessandroi. I would suspect it is Jersey. Here's a picture of dalessandroi and besseae from phragweb.com.






e-spice


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Sep 1, 2010)

Have you contacted Dennis D'Alessandro? I think he would know this plant about as well as anyone.....


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## Ernie (Sep 1, 2010)

Have seen a couple d'allesandroi and none have had such rich color saturation.


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## JeanLux (Sep 1, 2010)

can't help for the id, but extreme color!!! Jean


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## John M (Sep 2, 2010)

It's beautiful! Whatever it is, it's worth selfing to produce more like it. That's a very unique flower and that "look" is worth duplicating. Love the bright yellow synsepal and red dorsal, petals, pouch and staminode sheild.

It looks to me to be Jersey, not dalessandroi. The colour is too red and saturated and the petal stance, while reminiscent of dalessandroi, definitely looks to me to have some besseae influence.


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## smartie2000 (Sep 2, 2010)

I own the same cross, just search my threads: 
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3037&highlight=dalessandroi
the reblooming is nicer
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9405&highlight=dalessandroi

and I no longer call it dalessadoi now that I am more informed. BTW my plant is a climber. and it seems to grow better in cooler temps than my other besseae, otherwise it rots. It seems like one of those more difficult besseae


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## Bolero (Sep 2, 2010)

Amazing colour!


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## ORG (Sep 2, 2010)

I agree with the other Phrag-friends, it looks like a Phrag. Jersey.

Best greetings

Olaf


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## cnycharles (Sep 2, 2010)

*sigh*; I think eric, clark and I have the same thing; from a california grower who had some plants from the orchid zone. don't know if it is the same outcross though. so far the plant isn't climbing but mine hasn't spiked. I think eric and clark's plants may have had spikes when purchased. hopefully someday we'll all have real d'alessandrois?!

nice color on these flowers


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## lienluu (Sep 2, 2010)

Here is one that I have in bloom now that was originally wild-collected. I don't have a photo of the plant but it is non-stoloniferous and it does branch.


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## Drorchid (Sep 2, 2010)

Thanks everyone! Yes I have to agree that it is most probably a Phrag. Jersey.

Robert


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## NYEric (Sep 2, 2010)

Wow! He who shall remain nameless even responded! :evil:
I agree probably a cross of Jersey or a Jersey.


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## tomkalina (Sep 2, 2010)

Hi All,

Robert, I too have a few of the old OZ sib and believe it is actually the natural hybrid (besseae x d'alessandroi) i.e. Jersey. Lien's flower looks similar to our `Fox Valley' CHM/AOS clone (photo attached) which was ID'ed by Cal Dodson prior to the award, and I believe it is the true species as well.

Thanks, Tom


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## Drorchid (Sep 2, 2010)

Thanks Tom,

Does your`Fox Valley' CHM/AOS branch with multiple flowers? If so do you have a picture of its branching habit?

Robert


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## tomkalina (Sep 2, 2010)

Robert,

Here's one of a subsequent blooming that shows the branching habit. When awarded the CHM/AOS, it had only one flower (the first on the inflorescence) and one bud. The attached photo is actually a better representation than the awards photo, which is pretty weak......FYI everyone else: We now have a good supply of selfings of the awarded (and ID'd) `Fox Valley' clone in seedling size, listed on the Fox Valley Orchids, Ltd. website at: www.foxvalleyorchids.com. Had to put in the plug ;=)

I mentioned before that Dr. Cal Dodson examined the flower and validated the CHM/AOS award. Given the number of plants labelled "d'alessandroi" in circulation that are not the true species, I thought it especially important to have it's discoverer verify it's identity prior to using in in our breeding program.

Thanks, Tom


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## NYEric (Sep 2, 2010)

More phrag torture! Thanx Tom, you sadist!


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## SlipperFan (Sep 2, 2010)

Here's a photo of the d'alessandroi I got from Tom:


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## e-spice (Sep 3, 2010)

SlipperFan said:


> Here's a photo of the d'alessandroi I got from Tom:



Very pretty!

Hey Dot - I have always wanted to get one of those from Tom but don't do well with besseae. How is the plants vigor compared to besseae?

e-spice


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## KyushuCalanthe (Sep 3, 2010)

Wow, what a feast for the eyes this thread is! I'm loving those deep red staminodes especially. Dot, what a pic!


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## tomkalina (Sep 3, 2010)

Hi Dot,

Beautiful flower and beautiful photo. I wish I had your photographic eye (and equipment!). Once you see enough of the true d'alessandroi, it's pretty easy to differentiate between it and other, less authentic examples. 

e-spice - our seedlings have 6 inch leaf spans and are growing vigorously in rose pots. I think the secret to growing d'alessandroi well is to grow the compots in R/O water until the seedlings have 4-5 inch leaf spans - then repot into 2 1/4 inch pots and never, ever allow them to dry out. We don't continue to grow them with the pots sitting in water beyond this point, but some of our customers do so successfully. The water has to be of good quality. Rainwater or R/O) are best, but even these don't seem to approach the quality of the seepage in which they grow in their Ecuadorian habitat (16 micro-siemens !).

Hey Eric - Didn't mention it before, but there will be a tray of d'alessandroi seedlings available at Fox Valley during the Chicagoland Orchid Festival on September 24th weekend ;=)


Thanks,


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## NYEric (Sep 3, 2010)

Haha! I won't wait for that!


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## Shiva (Sep 3, 2010)

Tom!
This is pure torture! I can't wait to get my hands on one, or two. Let's abolish the frontier for orchid plant migrants.


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## SlipperFan (Sep 3, 2010)

e-spice said:


> Very pretty!
> 
> Hey Dot - I have always wanted to get one of those from Tom but don't do well with besseae. How is the plants vigor compared to besseae?
> 
> e-spice



It's still pretty early for me to say for sure, but so far, it's still alive. I have a lot of trouble with besseae, partly because of it's stolonous (sp?) habit..



tomkalina said:


> Hi Dot,
> 
> Beautiful flower and beautiful photo. I wish I had your photographic eye (and equipment!).


My equipment is pretty simple, Tom. And I count on Photoshop to help correct things my camera can't.


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## Phrag-Plus (Sep 4, 2010)

NYEric said:


> Wow! He who shall remain nameless even responded! :evil:
> I agree probably a cross of Jersey or a Jersey.



It reminds me some ecuadorian form of besseae we've seen in the past. 
I agree with Eric it could be a Jersey (?) or an hybrid (??) ...


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## Pete (Sep 4, 2010)

i have seen many phrag. dalessandroi that belong to dennis himself and that looks like it could be a very good one. who knows but it looks very similar to some ive seen.


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## Phrag-Plus (Sep 6, 2010)

Phrag-Plus said:


> It reminds me some ecuadorian form of besseae we've seen in the past.
> I agree with Eric it could be a Jersey (?) or an hybrid (??) ...



I had a look at _'Die Gattung Phragmipedium' _ writen by Olaf (1996), many besseae ecuadorian form can be seen. The clone 'Elisabeth', Rechtalperle v. Lautenbach', 'Wössener' and 'Wössener Feuer' and all of them are looking prety similar to that one... But again some of those seems to have branching and multifloral habit?


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## smartie2000 (Sep 7, 2010)

Phrag-Plus said:


> It reminds me some ecuadorian form of besseae we've seen in the past.



I agree with JP...it looks like the bessease Zach. posted. And it may grow the same way, since it likes to be cooler than my other besseaes. I dont have many though


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