# true miniature paphs



## philoserenus (Jan 6, 2009)

i am just wondering wat are some true miniature paphs species or primary hybrids that are relatively easy to grow. i had no idea that paphs can be sooo small until i saw an appletonianum in flower.

in my mind, helenae and barbigerum comes to mind. now appletonianum too.


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## paphreek (Jan 6, 2009)

For species, Paph fowliei grows easily into a specimen plant. I also consider henryanum, fairrieanum, godefroyae, and niveum to be compact growers.

For hybrids, crosses featuring barbigerum or helenae as a parent crossed to other smaller species can be nice. See Rose's example of Paph Barbi Doll (barbigerum x fairrieanum)


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## British Bulldog (Jan 7, 2009)

Hi Nik
Very surprised to see you refering to P. appletonianum as a miniature.
In the past we made miniature complex using concolor, now of course we have the exciting P barbigerum and helenae. Lots of stuff coming out of lab!!
One important trait is the length of stem and things like appletonianum stem is far too long.
Although it has a medium stem, our Copper Spice is a beautiful mini complex.
I will send some pics later
Regards
Paul Phillips
Ratcliffe


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## Elena (Jan 7, 2009)

What about thaianum, I got the impression that they are pretty small. Also, micranthum plants are fairly compact, aren't they?


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## goldenrose (Jan 7, 2009)

philoserenus said:


> i am just wondering wat are some true miniature paphs species or primary hybrids that are relatively easy to grow...





Elena said:


> What about thaianum, I got the impression that they are pretty small. Also, micranthum plants are fairly compact, aren't they?



I wouldn't call appletonianum a mini, compact yes. Micranthum can be compact but are they relatively easy to grow/bloom?


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## philoserenus (Jan 7, 2009)

thank you for correcting me that P. appletonianum isn't mini. then the plant must be mislabeled... hmm... 

as for the micranthum, definitely a compact plant with a huge flower, but i've read they are quite hard to bring into bloom. this is one that i took a pic of last year at a local show Paph Micranthum. 

The paph thaianum looks cute, something i can consider. is it one of those calcium liking ones? and if so, wat can i put into the bark mix to make it calciferous--dolomite?


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## NYEric (Jan 7, 2009)

thaianum aren't easy to grow!


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## philoserenus (Jan 7, 2009)

any suggestions from you then eric? i've always loved ur collection of orchids


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## NYEric (Jan 7, 2009)

Use the 'search' in the Paph foto section. Ross Hella or someone was working in that direction.


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## Elena (Jan 7, 2009)

Apoligies, folks, I didn't notice the bit about being easy to grow. My micranthum is still alive and seems to be doing well but I'll have to wait and see how it does in the long term. I suppose these things depend on your conditions, too. 



NYEric said:


> thaianum aren't easy to grow!



Does it mean you killed one? oke:


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## shakkai (Jan 7, 2009)

Paul, Please make sure I'm on the list for some of those Copper Spice x helenae seedlings!! I think this line of breeding is going to be really interesting to watch.

Cheers,
S


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## john mickel (Jan 7, 2009)

*Paph thaianum*

Ok - where do you get this baby paph -john


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## Sangii (Jan 7, 2009)

helenae and tranlienianul are true miniature. Not sure though wether they are legal in Canada


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## Hakone (Jan 7, 2009)

niveum var. thaianum is still smaller than helenae and tranlienianum


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## philoserenus (Jan 7, 2009)

i dunno about helenae, but Cloud's sell tranlienianum, so i'm pretty sure those are legal here ^^ i definitely like the look of tranlienanum. something i can consider for sure 

where would i be able to look if i wanted to know if a certain plant is legal in canada or not? is there a list somewhere online?


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## Leo Schordje (Jan 7, 2009)

Koopowitz covered this in several articles. Any species or hybrid that a mature, 3 growth plant will bloom in a 3 inch pot and total height is less than 9 inches and overall leaf span less than 8 inches, could be considered compact. As a side note; in my mind, true mini doesn't start until you are at or under 4 inches - this Paphs simply don't do well, so I think the 8 to 9 inches and fit in a 3 inch pot is an acceptable rule. At this size a teacup could be used as a pot or cachepot. Easy to grow is relative, I find parvi's easy and callosum types difficult - because I grow fairly cool. So ease of growth should be ignored as far as defining the type. 

My picks for the list would be
armeniacum
micranthum
concolor (not all races, there are some larger growers too)
niveum
godefroyae
thaiianum - have never seen it live, so this is from what I've read
appletonianum - some clones are more compact than others I have a small clone labeled as wolterianum that fits the bill. 
barbigerum
helenae,
henryanum
hermanii
charlesworthii & fairrieanum & spicerianum all can get too big for the mini category, but there are some clones that are more compact than others. 
tranlinianum
primulinum
wilhelminiae - some clones are smaller than others. 
fowliei of course - smallest of the barbatum-callosum group
purpuratum & barbatum, some clones will bloom rather compact. 
wardii - you can usually keep a 2 growth plant blooming in a 3 inch pot, eventually they get big. 
Paph lynniae is too big, but it is the smallest of the lowii group. Almost on the list.
Paph philippinense, there is a dwarf race that just barely fits the ticket

22 species on my list, and I am sure one could add a few more. Of course from this list there are hundreds of hybrids using these species, many will be amendable to growing as teacup Paphs. 

I have been a student of bonsai for a long time, and it has taught me a few things that do cross over into orchids. In bonsai - the real effort is put into thoughtful presentation. The cross over into orchids is that you should groom your plants, and choose pots to show the plants better. It is possible to deliberately keep some of these Paphs healthy & blooming and force them to stay more compact. Growing a bit brighter will force tighter foliage. Don't overpot, take the time to wind overlong roots into the smaller pot. Remove more of the previously flowered, older growths. Caution on removing old growths, make sure front growths have developed roots, often the front growth or two don't have roots. Choose your pot size so that the roots system fills 50% or more of the volume. These are some tricks to keeping the Paphs tight and compact. Experiment !!! Remember - adjust watering schedule to the plant. Only a healthy plant will bloom, so be careful. Too extreme on this and the plant won't bloom, defeating the purpose of the excercize. Consider foremost that you are growing for an attractive presentation. In terms of hort skills, this is the next level up, once you have learned how to keep the same plant growing for 5 or more years, now it is time to really work on good presentation. 

I have a 5 growth Paph armeniacum in a 4 inch tall, 3 inch diameter hand made ceramic pot. I deliberately wound the rhizomes around to make it fit, rather than simply potting up and letting it spread out. So far it has only bloomed one flower at a time, but when it does more, it will be quite a showpiece. Most of the above, with a little encouragement could make nice specimens in 3 inch or smaller pots. Give it a try.


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## Hien (Jan 7, 2009)

Sangii said:


> helenae and tranlienianul are true miniature. Not sure though wether they are legal in Canada



Yes they are, one can check canadian growers' websites. Most ( if not all) are legal & available in Canada.


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## Hien (Jan 7, 2009)

Didn't we have a few photos of thaianum posted somewhere on the forum (or maybe I see on a website) looks like they flower on 2 inch leaf span when you look at the scale of things around it (like cigarette, finger, pot..etc..).


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## emydura (Jan 7, 2009)

As Leo stated, Harold Koopowitz has a really good chapter on miniature Paph breeding in his recent book. Every Paph enthusiast should own that book.

David


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## Rick (Jan 7, 2009)

A couple of neat non-paph mini slippers include Phrag fisheri, and Mexipedium xerophyticum (but this one can be a real rambler).


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## philoserenus (Jan 7, 2009)

surprisingly for phrags, i went for the big ones, haha. giganteum & sorcerer's apprentice are big ones and maria glanz & conchiferum which are smaller. but no mini's there.

hmm seems like harold koopowitz's book looks quite interesting--from the sample i read online. i've gotta see if i can find it at a chapters/indigo.

leo: i like ur little blurb on bonsai methodology, definitely applicable

hien: even if wat u said is right and that almost everything is legal here in canada, is there a place where i can look? maybe like a CITIES pages in the Environment Canada or something?


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## NYEric (Jan 8, 2009)

Phrags pearcei-the small variety, and klotz, are small growers!


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## shakkai (Jan 8, 2009)

If you're talking about Phrags, don't forget about Phragmipedium Wössen:

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9530


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## philoserenus (Jan 11, 2009)

shakkai--true that the schulimi hybrids definitely stay small but for me at my current skill level, i dun think i will be able to grow

im currently looking at hybrids of Cochlopetalums. are most of them easy to grow and bloom? and they do stay relatively small right?


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## SlipperKing (Jan 11, 2009)

philoserenus said:


> shakkai--true that the schulimi hybrids definitely stay small but for me at my current skill level, i dun think i will be able to grow
> 
> im currently looking at hybrids of Cochlopetalums. are most of them easy to grow and bloom? and they do stay relatively small right?


Yes and yes


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## goldenrose (Jan 11, 2009)

philoserenus said:


> ....im currently looking at hybrids of Cochlopetalums. are most of them easy to grow and bloom? and they do stay relatively small right?



I have to disagree with Rick on this one. Primulinum stays smallish, especially var. purpuratum, for me.
My lieminianum has a 24" leafspan with leaves 2 1/2 wide & occupies a 6" pot with ease. My chamberlainanum is slightly smaller. Most cochlos I would say fall into the medium - large size.
Check out these threads - http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9971
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10450
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10452


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## Phil (Jan 12, 2009)

philoserenus said:


> is it one of those calcium liking ones? and if so, wat can i put into the bark mix to make it calciferous--dolomite?



A friend recomended crumbled egg shells as an easy source of calcium. Haven't tried it but it seemed to work for him.


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## NYEric (Jan 12, 2009)

lime?


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## British Bulldog (Jan 14, 2009)

Dear Leo
As a hybridiser I hate the thought of "forcing" a plant to be compact.
Developing a breeding line has to be more satisfactory.
Stand by for some real "Babes"
Paul


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## Leo Schordje (Jan 14, 2009)

British Bulldog said:


> Dear Leo
> As a hybridiser I hate the thought of "forcing" a plant to be compact.
> Developing a breeding line has to be more satisfactory.
> Stand by for some real "Babes"
> Paul




Hi Paul, 
Point taken. It is easy to mis-understand the intent when talking about 'cross over' techniques from bonsai. Next time you get a chance, check out a public bonsai display. Note that the best trees are in phenomenally good health. These trees are healthy and vigorous. This is key. They would not make a good display if they were not vibrantly healthy. Yet most of these trees, by careful use of growing technique have leaf sizes reduced to 1/3 to 1/10th of the normal size. Healthy but dwarfed. 

My intent is applying the techniques of good culture, but using the techniques to keep the plant more compact in order to create a more compact display. Radical dwarfing won't be possible, but improved compactness is very do-able. Healthy and attractive are the goal. If it is not attractive, it is not worth doing. 

Beyond that - I am looking forward to the true genetic mini hybrids in the future. I love Paph helenae, though in of itself it is a bit monochromatic. I would love to see a bunch of Paph hybrids that size in a whole pallet of colors. 

In the mean time - I ain't getting any younger, so rather than wait for the mini's to come out and USFWS to get CITES straight for the new species that need to be used. I am working with what I have. I have a 5 growth division of Paph Papyrus 'Maybrook' in a 3 inch diameter pot with 2 flower buds. Normally this plant would be in a 5 inch pot, but I am trying to grow it tight & compact. If the flowers bloom with at least average for the clone form and size - I will have succeeded. If the flowers are substandard for what 'Maybrook' can do, I'll repot it up to a larger pot, and stick it on the bench next to the other division of that clone. It is an experiment with technique that I am playing with while I wait for the true mini's. But hurry - I am feeling my mortality.


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