# Question about barbigerum



## eggshells (Oct 4, 2012)

I have a barbigerum that is currently in bud. However, the bract nor the bud has no pigment. Does that mean that its an album?

Cross is barbigerum x barbigerum fma. aureum 'War Eagle'. I cant tell if the basal leaves or axil has pigment because its covered with moss and algae but I think there is no pigment because the new shoots are green but still small. I believe it's one of Ross (Paphreek) crosses.

I cant wait and I'm dying to know. Might not be able to see it as I'm going on vacation for 5 weeks in December.


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## paphreek (Oct 5, 2012)

If the bud shows no dark spots or hairs, it is most likely the album form.  Did you get the plant from Oak Hill or Orchid Inn?


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## eggshells (Oct 5, 2012)

Hi Ross. It has hairs but no dark spots on the bract. I got it from OI.


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## Mocchaccino (Oct 5, 2012)

Congratulations! Not sure yet until the flower opens up I think but it has a high chance!


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## NYEric (Oct 6, 2012)

Another person gets an album! :sob:


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## Ozpaph (Oct 6, 2012)

one parent was fma aureum so it likely to be light coloured


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## eggshells (Oct 9, 2012)

What do you guys think? Or too early to tell?


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## Cheyenne (Oct 9, 2012)

The stem sure looks like it. If its not a true album it might be aureum. I cant tell from the pic, but does the base of the plant have any color or speckles?


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## eggshells (Oct 9, 2012)

Not really, the colouration at the base is just stain. From the potting mix or algae.


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## Cheyenne (Oct 9, 2012)

Thats what I thought. I remember reading on woodstream and a few other sites about barbigerum, and it seems like the albums pip up alot more frequently than with other species. So maybe even some of the colored ones have been bred with albums so they carry the album gene. I think it is album. Woodstreams site says the aureum is more rare than the album, so I don't know which to hope it is. I just bought a flask of semi-album x album. Hopefully I get a few albums too.


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## SlipperKing (Oct 9, 2012)

'War Eagle' is Ross's clone people. Do a search and you'll see were Ross got a AQ for this cross. ...................All albums! 

Of course he doesn't mention 'War Eagle' LOL
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17803&highlight=barbigerum


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## Hakone (Oct 10, 2012)

eggshells said:


> What do you guys think? Or too early to tell?



albino


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## Roth (Oct 10, 2012)

Cheyenne said:


> Thats what I thought. I remember reading on woodstream and a few other sites about barbigerum, and it seems like the albums pip up alot more frequently than with other species. So maybe even some of the colored ones have been bred with albums so they carry the album gene. I think it is album. Woodstreams site says the aureum is more rare than the album, so I don't know which to hope it is. I just bought a flask of semi-album x album. Hopefully I get a few albums too.



Ross cross is indeed the real, genuine barbigerum from China, not the coccineum or this kind of things from Vietnam...

There has been two wild barbigerum album ever found, one very weak one that went to the USA, and another one that went to Taiwan. I know that the weak one has been crossed with a normal, high quality barbigerum in the early 90's, before it eventually died. The flasks were released in quite a bit number, and it is likely that many barbigerum in the market carry the albinism of that alba barbigerum.

Barbigerum is really rare, and since 15 years I have never seen a single wild collected plant of it, so people put their hands on the blooming size barbigerum available, and selfed/ sibbed it, getting eventually back the albino.

I have to confess one thing too, in France I did some delenatii for Klinge, and some were delenatii x delenatii album. They bloomed as regular delenatii of course, but I kept only the 10 best shaped ones, the remaining I sold them wholesale as delenatii ( growers do not care in Europe about the 'carry the albinism trait' or whatever...), so if anyone self any of those delenatii, he will get some albino ones for sure, but it is not mentioned on the plants... I think for the barbigerum it is the same story.

There should be some urbanianum album in the USA in a similar fashion too...


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## Hakone (Oct 10, 2012)

I just heard abou Paph zieckianum album in indonesia


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## paphreek (Oct 10, 2012)

Roth is right. My cross was fma. aureum x normal color with half aureum genes, which I was unaware of when I made the cross. I had expected that I would have to do a second sib cross to get aureums.


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## eggshells (Oct 10, 2012)

paphreek said:


> Roth is right. My cross was fma. aureum x normal color with half aureum genes, which I was unaware of when I made the cross. I had expected that I would have to do a second sib cross to get aureums.



Are you still continuing or doing this cross? I think it is very nice.


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## NYEric (Oct 10, 2012)

Deff. album Eggshells. Ross, dont forget an album for me!


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## eggshells (Oct 10, 2012)

NYEric said:


> Deff. album Eggshells. Ross, don't forget an album for me!



I bought this as a coloratum version. Bonus if it indeed turns out an album or better yet, aureum variety.


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## NYEric (Oct 10, 2012)

that's what the people here said about their albums also. Mine was not album though.


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## paphreek (Oct 10, 2012)

eggshells said:


> Are you still continuing or doing this cross? I think it is very nice.



Yes I am. Unfortunately, the first sib cross of aureums was lost when Kelsey Creek went out of business. Another flasker was able to pick up some material from Kelsey Creek, including an aureum x 1/2 aureum cross. I am waiting for an update on their condition.


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## paphreek (Oct 10, 2012)

NYEric said:


> Deff. album Eggshells. Ross, dont forget an album for me!



I've still got a few unbloomed seedlings, but they don't seem to want to bloom as readily in the greenhouse as they did in the house.


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## Roth (Oct 10, 2012)

Hakone said:


> I just heard abou Paph zieckianum album in indonesia



Yes there is, and it is quite common, I have seen 3 myself over the years, but nearly no one wants to buy. The collectors want a premium price, and most normal zieckianum have a bacterial rot shortly after collection, so the survival rate out of a batch is only a few percents. 

Same for sangii album, it came out 2 times, but you need to see the plant condition in its greatest details, and even so it may not survive...


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## eggshells (Oct 10, 2012)

paphreek said:


> I've still got a few unbloomed seedlings, but they don't seem to want to bloom as readily in the greenhouse as they did in the house.



Can it be distinguish without blooming? Like pigmentation on the leaf of some kind? Or pretty much needs to bloom?


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## paphreek (Oct 10, 2012)

eggshells said:


> Can it be distinguish without blooming? Like pigmentation on the leaf of some kind? Or pretty much needs to bloom?



They're pretty hard to tell. The colored form has a slight stippling at the base of the leaves, but dirt and abrasion in the same area can make ir hard to distinguish.


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## NYEric (Oct 11, 2012)

paphreek said:


> I've still got a few unbloomed seedlings, but they don't seem to want to bloom as readily in the greenhouse as they did in the house.



Sounds like a couple of them would like to stay in a nice warm NYC apartment! 


Roth, sangii album!? :drool:


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## Roth (Oct 13, 2012)

NYEric said:


> Sounds like a couple of them would like to stay in a nice warm NYC apartment!
> 
> 
> Roth, sangii album!? :drool:



I have seen quite a few albinos over the years, but many are not in viable condition. Zieckianum album appeared about 20 years ago, then regularly every 3-4 years. However, a shipment of zieckianum must be at least 1000 plants for the collector to go, and by the time it reaches Java ( about a week-10 days), many plants have started to rot. Maybe one day there will be a pristine plant that is an albino, but otherwise, buying two or three rotten leaf with an albino flower is not so interesting... Same for sangii album. 

In contrast, for the helenae album, the collectors collect usually about 10-20 plants (clumps) a year in bloom, not to mention green leaf plants year round. Out of those, I would say that only 2-5 clumps, and sometimes not the entire clump in fact, can be cultivated and will survive. The remaining are poor things with 2 dried up leaves and one flower, plus a tiny new growth if you are lucky. At 50-200USD/growth, it is a bit expensive to end up in the dustbin. Zieckianum album, the collectors usually want around 1000-5000USD for a plant in bloom, again expensive to end up in the dustbin...


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## Mrs. Paph (Oct 15, 2012)

eggshells said:


> Can it be distinguish without blooming? Like pigmentation on the leaf of some kind? Or pretty much needs to bloom?


Once I knew that some were blooming out album and I actually Looked at my plants, there was no doubt in my mind that I had 2 of each 'color' out of the four seedlings I got. And blooming confirmed it. But I am pretty near-sighted  , and I had some of each variety to compare to, so that helped make me certain I guess.


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## eggshells (Nov 9, 2012)

It's an alba but damn it, the form sucks. It seems that its already fading and It just opened a few days ago. Not really sure why. Probably got wet too much during watering.

Oh well here it is. First time bloomer.


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## Paphman910 (Nov 9, 2012)

eggshells said:


> It's an alba but damn it, the form sucks. It seems that its already fading and It just opened a few days ago. Not really sure why. Probably got wet too much during watering.
> 
> Oh well here it is. First time bloomer.



Nice flowers! It will get better and the plant is probably stressed about something so it is fading. May also be the reason why shape and form is not good!


Paphman910


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## wjs2nd (Nov 9, 2012)

Looks very nice for a first bloom.


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## JeanLux (Nov 10, 2012)

Cute colors!!!! Jean


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## Marc (Nov 10, 2012)

If it's allready fading and the plant is a bit stressed I would cut the spike asap.


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