# Dilemma concerning purchases



## limuhead (Sep 27, 2013)

I think by now it is fairly obvious that I am an avid Paph/Phrag flask shopper. Truth is I truly enjoy the challenge of growing from flask, and after killing many I have gotten to the point where my success rate is extremely high; few if any mortalities so long as I have decent material to start with. I have bought from some of the best in the business, some unknowns, and gotten mixed results from both as well. My dilemma is this. Should I reveal details about a recent bad purchase as a public service to those who might be in the market? I have contacted the seller, and not enough time has elapsed for a reply, but the flasks were really in bad shape. I have thrown out better flasks than that doing volunteer work at local nurseries. At one place in particular I asked the owner if he would mind if I tried anyway; his reply was 'Don't waste your time'. 
I will post pictures tomorrow, have to stay up almost all night to try and salvage what I can...


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## SlipperKing (Sep 27, 2013)

Bit your tongue until you get a reply. I don't want to know until you have all the facts.


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## goldenrose (Sep 27, 2013)

Bummer but I have to agree with Rick.
I hope they weren't the helenae.


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## limuhead (Sep 27, 2013)

Rose, the helenae were/are a bit on the small side, but tons of them and really nice...


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## limuhead (Sep 27, 2013)

SlipperKing said:


> Bit your tongue until you get a reply. I don't want to know until you have all the facts.



In some ways I agree, but on the other hand the flasks were old and should had been planted out months ago. Half of the leaves on some of them were brown and translucent. I have gotten many flasks that were jumbled due to poor packing or rough treatment by the delivery company, but to send flasks with rotten plants?


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## ehanes7612 (Sep 27, 2013)

limuhead said:


> In some ways I agree, but on the other hand the flasks were old and should had been planted out months ago. Half of the leaves on some of them were brown and translucent. I have gotten many flasks that were jumbled due to poor packing or rough treatment by the delivery company, but to send flasks with rotten plants?



if they didnt tell you ahead of time then you have every right to post their name...even if they make amends after the fact. They should know better. I have gotten flasks from Sam that were like that but he always told me ahead of time with a discount.


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## eggshells (Sep 27, 2013)

Sorry to hear limu. It sucks when you were expecting a good product because you paid good money for it and then receiving a crappy sub par product. Wish you the best.


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## goldenrose (Sep 27, 2013)

limuhead said:


> Rose, the helenae were/are a bit on the small side, but tons of them and really nice...


Glad to hear it! They're little guys to begin with so one has to expect that they're not gonna be giants coming out of flask.



limuhead said:


> In some ways I agree, but on the other hand the flasks were old and should had been planted out months ago. Half of the leaves on some of them were brown and translucent. I have gotten many flasks that were jumbled due to poor packing or rough treatment by the delivery company, but to send flasks with rotten plants?





ehanes7612 said:


> if they didnt tell you ahead of time then you have every right to post their name...even if they make amends after the fact. They should know better. I have gotten flasks from Sam that were like that but he always told me ahead of time with a discount.


TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE! There was a time Sam had a concolor flask that went to long, it tempted me but due to my inexperience at the time I passed on it. He was totally upfront and as you said discounted it. 
With these additional details I'd post the name and I'd continue with an update as to how they handled it. 
You want to be treated as you'd treat others, I think that what's causing the dilemma. 
When Fred posted a list of extra compots back this spring, I jumped on the broughtonias. There was a pink and an aurea x splash. You were upfront with me, you wanted to double check the aurea compot as it experienced a little fungal issue, before you shipped it. You felt it was fine but told me to let you know if there were any troubles. The aurea compot, the plants were quite a bit smaller but boy did they take off and lots of them!


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## Leo Schordje (Sep 27, 2013)

I would give the vendor 5+ days to have a chance to discuss and make it right. But if the vendor refuses, definitely feel free to post. IF the vendor's attempt at resolution falls short, you probably should still post the name and a few details. If you get absolutely no response to emails, it might be technical, try a phone call. But if both fail to get a response, consider it deliberate and go ahead and post the name and some details.


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## NYEric (Sep 27, 2013)

Deal w/ the vendor as best as you can. the forum is often a place to vent and we appreciate warnings if a vendor sells you "not satisfactory" product. One bad apple could result in a bushel of apples good or bad! :wink:


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## Ozpaph (Sep 27, 2013)

Show pictures of the flasks - possible, but unlikely, you're being too picky.
Everyone makes mistakes and should be given a chance to make amends before a public flogging.


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## SlipperFan (Sep 27, 2013)

I think it's OK to show us the flasks, but I agree with the others who say to wait until there is a resolution -- or not -- before revealing the vendor's name.

I recently had an interesting experience with a vendor. I send him two pods. One didn't germinate, but the other did and he made 4 flasks from it. But then he got an outbreak of mold and lost 3 of the 4 flasks, set the 4th aside and forgot about it. When it was discovered, he sent it to me with an apology that it probably should have been sent out weeks ago. It turns out that I'm happy he kept it that long. The roots were great and the leaves are sturdy and they came apart easily. All's well that ends well, and I hope your situation resolves well, Fred.


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## Clark (Sep 28, 2013)

Have we come to that point, where one is forced to video tape the opening of the package, to avoid libel and/or slander?

I know what this fells like. Difficult to remain professional.
Good luck with this Fred.


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## chrismende (Sep 28, 2013)

I'm happy this we can have this discussion before you reveal the name of the vendor. I'd love to hear that the vendor made good on the error...


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## limuhead (Sep 29, 2013)

chrismende said:


> I'm happy this we can have this discussion before you reveal the name of the vendor. I'd love to hear that the vendor made good on the error...



Me too. I hope this works out. As a vendor myself(mostly Cattleya and Dendrobium species; I'm new to slippers) I strive to make sure that my customers are happy. As a matter of fact the majority of the sales I make are to repeat buyers. Nearly impossible to find flasks of paphs and phrags here in Hawaii, I have to get them from the mainland, and even then it can be difficult...


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## cnycharles (Sep 29, 2013)

I would always wait until there was a resolution before posting all details to a forum. Years ago I ordered a plant or two from a big vendor in California. One was bright yellow, the pot was very heavy and the roots mush. I sent an email to the company but didn't receive a reply. I was tiffed, but later on found out the owner had been ill and it was Mother's Day holiday (crazy busy for big orchid vendor), plants were likely being grabbed quickly by unseasoned helpers. Later when I purchased a nice plant from the same vendor, two plants were sent instead of one. The owner had realized after the fact what had happened, must have made a note, and replaced the bad plant. 
You never know just what goes on after you place an order; right about the time an assumption is made, sometimes an unexpected thing happens. Flasks sent to me from overseas have ended up looking completely trashed, and this can happen easily if a plane is encountering high altitudes between there and home


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


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## limuhead (Sep 29, 2013)

The same day I got the flasks in question I also received 2 flasks from another person. Both of those flasks were jumbled; could barely see the plants. I rinsed them off and the plants, although small were in perfect shape. I potted them out and they look great. The other flasks, the ones I am not happy with had lots of brown leaves; a problem that has gotten much worse on most of them. They seem to be damping off even though they were treated with fungicide and given a dose of calcium as well(1/8tsp. per gallon of K-lite). The vendor responded and asked for pictures, which were sent this morning. In the past 6 months I have purchased about 20 flasks. Treated them all the same. So far I have suffered almost no losses. The recent purchase I am posting this rant about are going down hill already after a few days...


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## NYEric (Sep 30, 2013)

Unfortunately I am a terrible grower from flask but some vendors grow them out into compots for me. In my experience, damaged and brown plants from flask never make it.


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## limuhead (Oct 12, 2013)

*pictures of flasks*

After a few days I got a response from the vendor. These are pictures of the flasks AFTER I cleaned them up and removed much of the dead/brown leaves. The response was:

'Send me some images. There should be 8-9 plants per flask. The Phrag Pink Panther was overdue to come out, but I expect them to grow our well if not mechanically damaged. The Epi is more root than leaves. If there was significant loss we can work to make it right.'

The flasks were sent after I requested an invoice. I never got the invoice, the flasks arrived on my doorstep without notice, 3 weeks after initial contact. I changed my order after a response saying one of them was no longer available. The original order was sent, they added a free flask, which ironically is the only one that wasn't in terrible shape. 
































The last picture was the free one. $279.00, including shipping. About 1/2 of the plants are dead or dying as of today. I am sending out the check tomorrow although I really don't want to. As a vendor on Ebay I have sold 100's of compots and orchids of all kinds. I have had only one disgruntled customer; said the compot was smaller than the picture which was a bold faced lie. I take pictures of EVERY item I sell. I refunded the money of the customer and let them keep the compot(and yes, they are banned from bidding on my auctions). I sent these photos to the vendor and have not heard from them since...


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## SlipperFan (Oct 12, 2013)

I'm certainly not impressed with the roots. There seems to be way too much inconsistency to be a good flask.


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## NYEric (Oct 12, 2013)

I recommend rockwool cubes and diatomite for the Phrags.


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## limuhead (Oct 13, 2013)

I usually put them in a compot with loose sphagnum for about a month or so them in a plug tray, seems to work pretty well for me...


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## NYEric (Oct 13, 2013)

Ok.


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## orcoholic (Oct 13, 2013)

It looks to me like some of the flasks don't have 8 viable seedlings. Maybe they will accept half price for those if you send the pictures and let them know you're unhappy. 

I think pics 1,2,3,4,&6 don't have the promised amount of plants. Were the flasks advertised as "ready to remove and compot"? It looks like some of them should have left in the flask (if possible).


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## abax (Oct 14, 2013)

I'm not experienced with deflasking so take my comment with a grain of
salt. I'd ask for a total refund or a new flask. These tiny plants would scare
me to death if I received them with very little or no roots. If the vendor
leaves you hanging, out 'em!


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## limuhead (Oct 16, 2013)

As much as it pains me I sent out a check for the full amount this morning. Hopefully the vendor will made good on this purchase. I have bought several flasks from different vendors from the time of the original post; all exceptional. Needless to say I am done with this vendor, even though they have quite a few crosses/species that I really want...


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## SlipperFan (Oct 16, 2013)

Did you tell him you won't buy from him anymore?


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## limuhead (Oct 16, 2013)

SlipperFan said:


> Did you tell him you won't buy from him anymore?



Dot, 
If the person saw what I post on this site I am sure they would tear up my check and offer an apology. Think about it. I am an obsessive compulsive orchid buyer. I love to grow plants from flask and I am constantly changing my mind on what I really like, so I need a little of everything. I am the perfect customer. I have, since joining this forum bought 20+ Paph and Phrag flasks, ranging from $30 to $250, and still have another 10, at least on reserve/order. At very least 2 or 3 a month. I have local orchid show vendors that want me to grow out flasks, up to 2 inch pots anyway, so they can sell them at the shows I don't sell at. The ONLY reason I am disappointed that winter is coming is that I miss out on some really cool flasks because it is too cold to ship. I love to grow things. Certain crosses I plan on growing out for breeding stock, but even those I will select out the more vigorous growers and sell many of them before they bloom. Why would anyone NOT want me as a customer?


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## limuhead (Oct 16, 2013)

Other than the fact I tend to be a little obnoxious on slippertalk.com


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## Trithor (Oct 17, 2013)

I am still patiently waiting to hear who the errant vendor is.


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## SlipperFan (Oct 17, 2013)

Unless you sent him a link to this thread and asked him to look at it, I'm doubtful he did. Believe it or not, not everyone knows Slippertalk exists.


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## limuhead (Oct 17, 2013)

Trithor said:


> I am still patiently waiting to hear who the errant vendor is.


 I sent out a check. You'll know in a week. The vendors name has come up in a few posts on slippertalk...


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## limuhead (Nov 2, 2013)

*Redemption*

Well after many weeks, photographs sent, emails exchanged I have some news. The vendor whom I purchased the questionable flasks has in my opinion totally surpassed my expectations and is an honorable and professional company. I was given a partial refund, which was more than adequate, Two of the flasks were replaced by ones that were in excellent condition, and an extra flask was sent(which I must also say is very uncommon and very difficult to find in any condition). I would still like the opinion of the slippertalk crowd to see if I should divulge the name of the vendor. Opinions please...


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## cattmad (Nov 2, 2013)

as this turned out well I would think it is a positive story for the vendor and yourself, they corrected the error, which is all you can really ask for


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## JeanLux (Nov 2, 2013)

Bring in his name in an undirect but positive way somewhere else (f.ex. by opening a thread with pics of the last received flasks  )!! Jean


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## Ray (Nov 2, 2013)

I agree with cattmad, this is an example of a good vendor, who should be given kudos.

I am now in my 20th year of online sales, and as hard as this is to believe, I have, on occasion, screwed up on orders. My standard policy is to make it right immediately, and that has ended up making the potentially negative transaction at least acceptable, if not outright positive.

About the only exception was a guy who complained that the plants I sent were "loaded with bugs". I denied any claim as, 1) I had not seen any such critters in my greenhouse in years, and 2) the plant had been shipped to the customer six months earlier.


Ray Barkalow
Sent using Tapatalk


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## SlipperFan (Nov 2, 2013)

What, Ray -- you are not taking responsibility for bugs that appear on plants you shipped 6 months earlier?!!! oke:

It's incredible that someone would expect you to.

I agree with the others. Maybe it's just curiosity now, but without knowing, a person can put the suspicion on all kinds of vendors.


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## abax (Nov 3, 2013)

OMG...six months is nothing! I had customer who came in for a total
refund for dogwoods he'd bought five years ago...and didn't ever bother
to water. When you deal with "the public", you have to deal with crazy
people occasionally. No, he didn't get a refund and I told him never to come back again. It felt REALLY goooood!


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## NYEric (Nov 3, 2013)

I think we have an idea who the vendor is and if you want to you can post. After all; it did work out OK.


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## limuhead (Nov 3, 2013)

*Woodstream Orchids; I business I HIGHLY reccomend!*

After a rocky start and slightly lengthy transaction I am happy to report that Woodstream Orchids is not only a business that I would recommend, but I plan on being a repeat customer to many years to come. They gave me a partial refund on my original purchase and more than made up for any inconvenience by sending replacement flasks and an additional flask as well. The one complaint I have about them is that they might want to fix a few links to pictures of other available flasks which I am interested in. If you are interested in variety and don't need 20+ seedlings of slipper orchids I would suggest visiting their website and consider placing an order. A big Mahalo to Lynn and Bill for going the extra mile and making me a believer in honesty and integrity. Do yourself a favor, visit their website...

http://www.woodstreamorchids.com/


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## SlipperFan (Nov 3, 2013)

Thanks, Fred. All's well that ends well.


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## cnycharles (Nov 3, 2013)

the only problems I ever had with dealing with woodstream, was that whenever I did a web search and ended up on their site, whatever it was I was looking for was already sold out!


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## NYEric (Nov 3, 2013)

Woodstream, and Chuck Acker are my 2 usual flask go-to companies.


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## abax (Nov 4, 2013)

Yeah, what cnycharles said! I'm always a day late and a dollar short at
Woodstream. Of course, for them sold out is great.


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## Linus_Cello (Nov 4, 2013)

Woodstream are regular vendors at the Paph Forum. In fact Lynn is co-chair of the Paph Forum. So come and buy plants in person! Hopefully there'll be new info on the Paph Forum soon.


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## NYEric (Nov 4, 2013)

What a tease! oke:


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