# paphiopedilum hermanii album . Question



## Hakone (Sep 12, 2020)

I've been looking for paphiopedilum hermanii for 16 years, not found. According : 

Cribb (1998) considered it to be a natural hybrid between P. hirsutissimum var. esquirolei and P. barbigerum. He cites personal communication with Cox, who did a molecular analysis on a cultivated plant and concluded it was probably of hybrid origin.

Averyanov (2003) considered it to be a, "more or less stabilized natural hybrid of P. hirsutissimum and another slipper species of P. insigne complex, most probably Paphiopedilum helenae. The morphology of P. x herrmannii is obviously intermediate between its putative parents, leaving little doubt as to its origin." Averyanov cites discoveries of P. x herrmannii growing in between P. hirsutissimum var. esquirolei and P. helenae as evidence for this origin.

Braem (2003) considers it a "stabilised natural hybrid" and thus a valid species. Orchidspecies. com A natural hybrid between P. helenae × P. hirsutissimum var. esquirolei that occurs in northern Vietnam

If I get hirsutissimum esquirolei album x helenae album, I get hermanii album?


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## silence882 (Sep 15, 2020)

Hello,

Sorry, but you would get an artificial hybrid if you made that cross. The only way to get a true hermanii album would be to find one in the wild. Or in very rare cases, albino versions of species can appear in artificial propagation of a species.

--Stephen


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## Hakone (Sep 16, 2020)

To get a true herrmanii album in the wild is impossible. According Braem : herrmanii is natural hybrid helenae x hirsutissinum . Natural hybrid herrmanii album would probably helenae album x hirsutissinum album


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## silence882 (Sep 16, 2020)

It sounds like hermanii is a stable population in the wild - whether of natural hybrid origin or not. Since hermanii is reproducing within its own population, there's always a chance that an albino can appear. This would happen due to genetic mutations in a plant that disable the anthocyanin production pathway.


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## Hakone (Sep 16, 2020)

Chu Xuan Canh´s photo of herrmannii in situ . Only one Clum. Where are the thousands of plants herrmannii in Feld. 





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## Hakone (Sep 17, 2020)

in Book Paphiopedilum Species , essential Guide Braem and Oakeley wrote :


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## NYEric (Sep 17, 2020)

Anything coming from Mr. Canh lately?


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## Hakone (Sep 17, 2020)

NYEric said:


> Anything coming from Mr. Canh lately?








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## Hakone (Sep 17, 2020)

He's here right now


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## silence882 (Sep 18, 2020)

Even if Paph hermanii is shown conclusively to be a natural hybrid of helenae and hirsutissimum, you cannot make the natural hybrid x hermanii by crossing the two species in cultivation. If you do cross helenae and hisutissimum in cultivation, you have made an artificial hybrid. I believe the naming convention would be to call your plants Paph. Hermanii (the capitalized name shows it's an artificial hybrid), but you may get to name it whatever you want. You'd have to ask the RHS orchid register to be sure.

There are several cases where natural hybrids have been discovered and described after artificial hybrids with the two parent species have been made. In those cases, the artificial hybrid and natural hybrid may have different names. For example, Paph. Lola Bird is the artificial hybrid of micranthum and emersonii. Paph. x glanzii is the natural hybrid of micranthum and emersonii. Paph. x glanzii was formally described after Paph. Lola Bird had been made, bloomed, and registered.

As for albums, it is entirely possible for two non-album parents to produce an album offspring. It is also possible for two album parents to produce normally colored offspring. The genetics of albinism in orchids is complicated.

So, the _only_ ways to have a genuine Paph. x hermanii album would be to (a) find one in the wild, or (b) have one appear while crossing normally colored Paph. x hermanii in cultivation.

--Stephen


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## Ozpaph (Sep 20, 2020)

conco-bellatulum and Wenhansense, also


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## Hakone (Sep 20, 2020)

Weshanense is according Kew , a specie . I have weshanense album .


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## Ozpaph (Sep 20, 2020)

yes, but the man made hybrid is conco-bellatulum.


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