# Paphiopedilum superbiens var curtisii 'Big Boy' AM/AOS



## DrLeslieEe (Oct 11, 2019)

My superbiens got a whopping 88 points in the September monthly judging here in Toronto! I called him 'Big Boy' as the flower size is as big as the largest previously awarded ones and darker than most. Thanks to a good friend in US who helped me select this plant. 

As it is just a first bloom, maybe next flower will be larger and get an FCC! One can dream LOL.


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## likespaphs (Oct 11, 2019)

love this complex (superbiens/curtisii)


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## Ozpaph (Oct 11, 2019)

very well done.
love the flower and foliage, not the lime green background.


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## Guldal (Oct 12, 2019)

Splendid - and then for a first time bloomer!

(due to the proportions of the flower, I gather, that your clonal epithet is somewhat of a euphemism?! )

Kind regards,
Jens


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## DrLeslieEe (Oct 14, 2019)

Thanks all.

Yes indeed a euphemism!


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## emydura (Oct 14, 2019)

Congratulations. That is a magnificent flower and a well deserved award.


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## Phred (Oct 14, 2019)

I may be incorrect but I don’t believe this is a complex between superbiens ant curtisii


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## NYEric (Oct 14, 2019)

It is superbiens v. curtsii, definitely. Very nice, thanks for sharing.


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## Phred (Oct 14, 2019)

There is a registered cross of Paphiopedilum superbiens x Paphiopedilum curtisii named Paphiopedilum Cymatodes. It was registered by R.H. Measures in 1893. The last AOS award for Paphiopedilum Cymatodes WAS an 83 pt AM.

The AOS has also awarded Paphiopedilum superbiens, Paphiopedilum superbiens var. curtisii and Paphiopedilum curtisii independently.

Kew.org however lists both Paphiopedilum superbiens var. curtisii and Paphiopedilum curtisii as synonyms of Paphiopedilum superbiens.


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## Guldal (Oct 14, 2019)

Phred said:


> I may be incorrect but I don’t believe this is a complex between superbiens ant curtisii



No, Phred, you are not 'incorrect' as such, you have just misunderstood 'likespaphs' comment... He is, I gather, not referring to a grex between superbiens and curtisii - but to an entity sometimes used by taxonomists as e.g. the hirsutissimum complex (containing hirsutissimum, esquirolei and chiwuanum), the hookerae complex (hookerae and volonteanum) - thus also the superbiens complex (superbiens and curtisii). 

And God knows it's not only complex in this case, but complicated too! Some taxonomists considers them synonymous; others claim that the "real" superbiens was lost for cultivation for a period of time, but now refound; the differences between the two taxonomic entities often only vaguely described; and if this wasn't enough, among hortoculturalists private definitions of the two "species" abound. One kind of gets the impression that one man's superbiens is another man's curtisii!


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## Phred (Oct 14, 2019)

emydura said:


> Congratulations. That is a magnificent flower and a well deserved award.


Lol makes sense now... like saying group.
My mistake


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## DrLeslieEe (Oct 14, 2019)

Thanks for the comments.

There are unfortunately many Paphiopedilum species that are similar and confusing with each other, separated only by egos (of taxonomists) and minor flower differences (or even geographical origins). Some examples include Paph. leucochilum/Paph. godefroyae and the entire appletonianum complex. 

In this case, the superbiens (as name suggests) is supposed to differ from curtisii by larger elongated size and less dark pouch, possibly taller spike. Because these were so similar and back crossed to each other multiple times, they start to look alike, aka large and dark. Now the accepted name from Kew Checklist is Paphiopedilum superbiens var. curtisii.

The hybrid between the two Paph. Cymatodes is very unlike the parents, most with non-twisted petals and different markings.


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## NYEric (Oct 17, 2019)

There are many "conversations" on this site regarding Paph. superbiens vs. Paph. curtsii. I think they are different and have different foliage, petals etc. Some people disagree.


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## Phred (Oct 17, 2019)

I agree mine are very different.


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## GuRu (Oct 29, 2019)

Lovely flower which obviously deserved its award. I agree, distinguish P. superbiens from its variety curtisii isn't easy.


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## ORG (Oct 29, 2019)

Your plant is really a true Paphiopedilum curtisii. Some years ago the true Paph. superbiens was found again and this Shows the clear differences to curtisii. Her eat first two different clones of curtisii




Paphiopedilum curtisii


and now the true superbiens 
Paphiopedilum superbiens 

Here an old print of the typical Paph. superbiens




Best greetings

Olaf


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## Guldal (Oct 29, 2019)

Thank you, Olaf, for your very elucidating clarification!

Your pictures are very illustrative...and makes clear the distinction between the two taxonomic entities 'superbiens' and 'curtisii'. 

It also makes clear that many a curtisii over the years have been sold under the name of 'superbiens', and thus added to the prevailing confusion! 

Kind regards,
Jens

.


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## Stone (Oct 29, 2019)

DrLeslieEe said:


> My superbiens QUOTE]
> 
> Magnificent plant! How are you growing it?


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## DrLeslieEe (Oct 30, 2019)

Thank you Olaf for putting this matter to rest. So many conflicting theories out there about this complex. Your illustrations and photos are, as Jens states, 'elucidating'. I hope to see you again at WOC Taiwan.

I grow my curtisiis warm all year, heavier watering in summer growing months. I feed once a month with organic fertilizer, flushing a lot in between.


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## SlipperKing (Oct 30, 2019)

I put this issue to rest a year+ ago but folks here have very short memories.


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## DrLeslieEe (Oct 31, 2019)

I wasn’t here a year ago, Mr. SlipperKing. But thanks again for contributing to this post. Those pics are great to confirm again.


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## bulolo (Dec 13, 2019)

I purchased a superbiens 'real' from Popow a couple of months ago. Noticed recently that the single growth has a blasted bud so will have to wait to see if it's real superbiens. Has any one else bloomed one of these?


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## gego (Dec 14, 2019)

So should we drop "var" now and just call it Paph curtisii? AOS has been awarding this var curtsii name so this makes it more confusing.


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 15, 2019)

AOS follows the World Checklist of Selected Plants from Kew and unfortunately the var curtisii has been reduced to a synonym of superbiens. I hope they correct that and put curtisii back to varietal status as we can see they are quite different in this thread.

Perhaps Olaf and Braeme can add their thoughts on this?


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