# My Paphs are growing tall and leggy!



## JoeJo (Jun 1, 2015)

Hello, I have a question or two. Last year in June I purchased 4 Paphs because they where on sale at a great price, 5 for $49 and was told that they would bloom within 12-18 months. I have never attempted to grow Paphs before, my first question is, why are they growing so tall and leggy because 2 of them have grown 15 small skinny leafs with a 16th on the way and the other 2 have 9 leafs with a 10th on the way. My second question is, what are the brown tiny knobs in the crown of each leaf. I always thought that Paphs grow low in the pot with only 4 to 6 fairly large leafs. Final question, what is wrong with my Paphs, if anything.


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## ehanes7612 (Jun 1, 2015)

you should post pictures (because it doesn't sound like you are describing paphs)


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## JoeJo (Jun 1, 2015)

*Reply about pictures!*

I have not figured out how to post photos yet but I assure you they are Paphs. I got them from Carter & Holmes Orchids online from South Carolina last year with labels of what they are. Also, how do I post photos? Thanks


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## NYEric (Jun 1, 2015)

the brown knobs are probably root starts, you probably got a bunch of Maudiae types and they are getting leggy. Some people would say to try to get some media around the starts, that's what I do.


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## rbedard (Jun 1, 2015)

Sometimes that leggy growth is a response to low light; how's your light?


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## SlipperFan (Jun 1, 2015)

The best way to post photos here is to use a photo storage internet site, like Photobucket or flickr, and copy/paste the appropriate "img" link to your photo.


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## JoeJo (Jun 1, 2015)

I grow the Paphs by a west window under a 4 foot shop light with 2- 40 watt bulbs.


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## troy (Jun 1, 2015)

I highly doubt they are not getting enough light, unless it rains every day or you live in alaska


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## youngslipper (Jun 1, 2015)

We really need a photo


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## naoki (Jun 1, 2015)

Very cool looking (sorry)!

Here is JoeJo's photos:
https://www.orchidsforum.com/threads/why-are-my-paphs-growing-tall-and-leggy.15361/#post-108372

How far is the light from the leaves, and how long? It does seem to be too little light. BTW, T12 is inefficient. Some shop light can take T12 or T8. If yours are like that, you might want to change to T8 for the next bulb change.

Are you using some plant hormones?


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## youngslipper (Jun 1, 2015)

Strange looking kinda cool looking


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## Ryan Young (Jun 1, 2015)

Slipper vines! What's your watering schedule, and humidity around the plants?


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## Justin (Jun 1, 2015)

have never seen that before


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## PaphMadMan (Jun 1, 2015)

Wow. I've seen some leggy Paphs before, my own and plenty of pictures/questions on forums, but those are unique in my experience. The response is extreme but uniform, conspicuously short leaves on a couple of them, more leaves per fan than in a normal growth pattern. 

The usual suspects for cause include low light, high humidity, bad media and crowding, and sometimes a genetic tendency, but with these I really suspect something hormonal going on. 

Are you giving your plants anything besides water and fertilizer? What fertilizer and rate? Have you repotted and what is the media? Insect pests or pesticide use? Anything unusual about the location or activities in the room? Wine or beer making? Any open flame regularly nearby (pilot light, gas water heater)? Compost bin? Unusual use of solvents for a hobby?


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## gonewild (Jun 1, 2015)

Must be excessive Gibberellins.


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## troy (Jun 1, 2015)

Reed stem epidendrum x paph hybrid?


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## phraggy (Jun 2, 2015)

I'm sure it's not the 1st April!!!!!

Ed


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## JoeJo (Jun 2, 2015)

*My Paphs are growing tall and leggy*

Thanks for the link naoki, how did you do that? I tried to enter the same link in my original post but it didn't work. I keep the 4 foot light about 12 inches above the plants by a west window wrapped with bubble wrap to diffuse direct sunlight, they get about 2-3 hours sun and altogether they get about 15 hours of light. I don't use any growth hormones, just 20-20-20 orchid food twice a month. Thanks again and please let me know how you got that link and how it works.


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## JoeJo (Jun 2, 2015)

I only use 20-20-20 orchid food twice a month and that is all. Nothing unusual going on in the room, just humidity, light and fan. I repotted the plants from a 2.5" pots to 4" pots in fresh fern medium as suggested by the grower when I got them a year ago.


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## cnycharles (Jun 2, 2015)

Yikes. Triple 20 is a lot of growth stuff even when used at a low rate. From the other forum the bulb seems too far away. You could try moving the plants to within 5" of the center of the bulb, and maybe use something with less p and k maybe like 20 10 10 or like that ratio just for a start


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ruth (Jun 2, 2015)

Do you use full strength as directed on the package? The old adage of fertilizing orchids that I go by is weakly weekly, or at least half strength when I fertilize.


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## Chicago Chad (Jun 2, 2015)

I see this thing occur but it is with window sill growers almost every time. I can not give you the reason. My non professional opinion is that the plants are getting inadequate light most of the day from the lights for some reason. That is followed by a burst of light at the same time each day for a short period. Therefore changing the growth habit in a consistent way. Fertilizers may also play a part because those growers often used something similar and equally balanced.

IMO both have to occur to get the plant to do that. I have done both with paphs before but never at the same time. I have also never had this happen. 

Your case is extreme and consistent with each plant so I would change things around with new ones.

New bulbs. Closer bulbs. East window. Different filter, if any for the east window. Different potting media for sure IMO, different fertilizer. Sounds like a lot but all relatively cheap and easy.


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## gonewild (Jun 2, 2015)

Your plants have a secret drug problem.
Heavy use of 20-20-20 fertilizer would not cause small leaves with elongated stems.
Low light should cause bigger floppy leaves, not short stiff leaves on a strong elongated stem.
You have the same exact strange growth occurring with different genetic hybrids, too nu-natural.
You will often see this type of stem elongation in flasks and that is likely from excessive hormones
Your neighbors must have strange chemicals floating around. Maybe venting a growroom nearby?


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## orcoholic (Jun 2, 2015)

Never seen anything like it. Are you sure those are the same orchids you bought?
I think Lance is closest to the reason for why your orchids look like that. I don't think lack of light or anything you do could cause that.
It must be hormonal or genetic.


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## naoki (Jun 2, 2015)

I believe that known gaseous plant hormones are ethylene and NO (relatively recent addition), so leak from neighbor is unlikely to cause it, though.

I think the light level is at the low end, but it is not extremely low. I haven't measured T12 40W, but it is similar total output to T8 32W. I don't have the number now, but I vaguely remember that 2x T8 (which I measured before) was similar to 1x T5HO 54W. With T5HO x 1 bulb, you get about 287fc (33 micromol/m^2/s, old bulb) to 472fc (58 mircomol/m^2/s, brand new bulb) at 12". So if you have old bulbs, it is fairly low.

Etiolation does happen in some plants if only red light is used, but it is unlikely to be the cause in this case.

I'm not sure why you couldn't add the link. I just copy-and-pasted the link to orchidsForum.


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## gonewild (Jun 2, 2015)

naoki said:


> I believe that known gaseous plant hormones are ethylene and NO (relatively recent addition), so leak from neighbor is unlikely to cause it, though.



May as well play Dr House...

Cladosporium sphaerospermum. an airborne fungi. Colonizes on plants.

_"C. sphaerospermum can possibly become a substitute for chemical fertilizers due to its ability to produce gibberellins, plant growth hormones that are essential for plant growth and development"_

https://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Cladosporium_sphaerospermum


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## gonewild (Jun 2, 2015)

I guess some unlikely things that are possible things.... 

"Gibberella
Fungus
Gibberella is a genus of fungus in the Nectriaceae family. In 1926, Japanese scientists observed that rice plants infected with Gibberella had abnormally long stems. A substance, gibberellin, was derived from this fungus."


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## JoeJo (Jun 2, 2015)

OK thanks I will try that!


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## Stone (Jun 2, 2015)

Well that's a new one! Forget the fertilizer. Nothing to do with that. Low light should not cause this type of growth either. Is it maybe the spectrum of light is wrong? It is almost like only part of the metabolism is working. 
Hormones (or lack of the right ones) are definitly playing a role somehow.


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## Stone (Jun 2, 2015)

gonewild said:


> May as well play Dr House...
> 
> As long as you don't come anywhere near me:rollhappy:


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## JoeJo (Jun 2, 2015)

I just added another 4 foot shop light and replaced all 4 bulbs with new 40 watt bulbs, light are 12 inches above the plants. Also I moved the growing rack right in front of the west window where they will get 2 to 4 hours indirect sunlight in the afternoon during the summer season and see what happens. I never had any problems with orchid fertilizer in 15 years with any of my other orchids, so I don't think that is the problem. Thank for your reply and concern.


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## troy (Jun 2, 2015)

If I grew my paphs in a west window they would be dead within three days, where do you live?


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## JoeJo (Jun 2, 2015)

I live in Phoenix, AZ, it's like living in the desert, today it was 109 degrees. I grow all my orchids (40 in total) by the west window under light and they love it. The window is covered with 1" thick bubble wrap to diffuse the direct sunlight. No problem with them except with my 4 Paphs.


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## geogeo21 (Jul 7, 2016)

Mmm...makes me think, what is in the plants' heritage? Alot of paphs are known for also being stoloniferous. So it could be the result of the new growth wanting to become stoloniferous


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