# Paphiopedilum armeniacum Fail



## Happypaphy7 (Jul 15, 2016)

This is more like a vent, but it's related to collection and orchid growing, so thought I would do that here. 

I decided to try armeniacum and micranthum knowing my conditions are not to their liking, but I was hoping to be lucky enough to find plants that would do good anyway as I have seen it happen, although not too common.

So, I have bought two from Peter in Big Leaf earlier in the spring.
They both looked very beautiful and grew well adding new leaves and even a couple of stolons. 
Well, one got hit by rot two months ago. I tossed it.
The second one, which has been a better one, just had this dreaded black rot all over the plant. I tossed the entire pot today.
It was very very very upsetting. There acutally was a flower spike coming at the center. 

The funny thing is, the potting mix was way too wet. I thought they were dry and been watering too much. stupid me. 

I might get some more from Peter and try the plants in growstone or something. I really liked Peter's plants. but now they are both gone. 

Now, I also bought three from Thanh in Springwater around the same time.
His were all single-growth plants, and looked rather different, and slightly rough. yet, these have been, well, alive so far. 

Oh, I also have a bunch of division from Nat, a member on this forum. 
They all looked terribly dry with no roots, so I thought he was joking. 
I potted them all together with sphag and kept moist.
Well, it's been over a month or longer now, and I see a few of them are pushing a new leaf!
He said these are from a very vigorous armeniacum that blooms easily indoor as well.
I am hopeful! 

My two micranthum, also from Thanh, are very happy! 
Please not rot on those.

Interestingly, all the armeniacum hybrids I have are very strong growers, especially the root department.


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## Linus_Cello (Jul 16, 2016)

Some people were reporting great success of armeniacum in hanging baskets. Maybe you could try it that way, and it would help address your overwatering issues.


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## Happypaphy7 (Jul 16, 2016)

I know, JMPC is the member, is it?
I know that plant is grown warm (min 18C) and blooms throughout the year. 
Definitely an odd plant, not the basket.


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## Bob in Albany N.Y. (Jul 16, 2016)

I agree with Neil on this one. I've not had success with a large hanging basket like JMPC has. I understand some others have not also. I'm trying low trays, and low clay pots, and even food strainers. Looks, good so far, but to early to make a call. At this point it seems micranthums like it more than armeniacums.


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## Ozpaph (Jul 17, 2016)

micrathum needs cool, bright, dry-ish winters and moist summers with lower light (in the sub-tropics). LOTS of air movement. In my limited experience. They rot fast if too damp over winter.


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## NYEric (Jul 17, 2016)

I have lost a lot of Parvi species to overwatering. I think low light and drier from now on.


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## Happypaphy7 (Jul 17, 2016)

Ozpaph said:


> micrathum needs cool, bright, dry-ish winters and moist summers with lower light (in the sub-tropics). LOTS of air movement. In my limited experience. They rot fast if too damp over winter.



Micranthum comes from a very wide area, but at least for Yunnan Province, they say the temperature fluctuation is greater day/night and day to day, than season to season. I know it also depends on the area within the region as well, but it is well-known for unpredictable weather pattern.
Generally mild, not too hot, not too cold, although higher elevation in the cooler season, it will get cold ( well above freezing most if the time though). 

Armeniacum is highly confined in a small area. Similar weather pattern I hear, though. 

Lots of rain part of the year, but still very moist in the "winter" with high air humidity and seepage on the rock and soil surface.


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## Happypaphy7 (Jul 17, 2016)

NYEric said:


> I have lost a lot of Parvi species to overwatering. I think low light and drier from now on.



I think coarse mix with frequent watering is the way, but I just don't want to water all the time. I'm already fed up. lol

Low light might give you beautiful leaves but may never flower for you. 

The only parvi that died for me so far: 2 Lynleigh Koopowitz ( one each year in the last two years) both within a month of purchase in bloom, 2 armeniacum this year. 
I still have lots of healthy parvis.


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## JAB (Jul 22, 2016)

We must remember that just because an area receives lots of annual rainfall, does not mean the flower is sitting in water so to speak! The availability of water is important but that surely does not mean they are wet per se.


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## Happypaphy7 (Jul 26, 2016)

Of course! 

Even plants in the soil, and get rained on a lot are not sitting in water.
Paphs on the rocky area with mosses and dirt covering the roots, much less so. sort of like tree dwellers. 

Only those that grow right next to streams or in the stream maybe.

Often, in the culture note, it says paphiopedilum must not go dry between watering or something along that line, and people just overwater. 
I find going dry between water is much safer than keeping them constantly wet, which is what Eric pointed out. Eric, stop watering twice everyday!!
I bet the death toll you see will dramatically go down.


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## NYEric (Jul 27, 2016)

We can't help it, it's pathological.


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## Tom-DE (Jul 27, 2016)

FWIW, both species like good air movement(very important IMO). Let the potting mix dry out a bit between watering, especially in winter. Open up the mix a little bit more as well. Cooler winter temperature is beneficial(down to the low 50s).


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## KyushuCalanthe (Jul 29, 2016)

Here's my plant that has been basket grown for over two years. First a look at it in March 2014, recently transfered to a coconut fiber lined basket.







And here it was yesterday. It looks good, but not great, so I thought it was time for a repot.






Newly situated in the same basket with new mix. I ditched the coconut fiber and lined the basket with sphagnum. The top of the growing medium was dressed with a bit more sphagnum.






We'll see how it goes from here. To see the full article on this, check out: Paph. armeniacum in a basket


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## Ozpaph (Jul 30, 2016)

Did you find 'lost' stolons that couldn't push through the coconut fibre? How were the roots?


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## Ozpaph (Jul 30, 2016)

I should have read your link first. Its EXCELLENT!


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## SlipperFan (Jul 30, 2016)

Looks really good!


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## KyushuCalanthe (Aug 2, 2016)

Ozpaph said:


> I should have read your link first. Its EXCELLENT!





SlipperFan said:


> Looks really good!



Thanks. I'm hoping it will grow even better now. Time will tell.


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## Happypaphy7 (Aug 3, 2016)

Thanks, Tom.
I don't think I've seen this post before.
Has this plant flowered in the two years time frame??

Regarding the plant growth habit, I thin the speed you're getting might also be related to individual plant's "personality"?
The large specimen in a basket shown here years ago, that plant was definitely different. It was given rather warm temperatures indoor year around, bloomed a random time throughout the year, and surely grew fast and well.


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## KyushuCalanthe (Aug 3, 2016)

This plant came with a flower, but hasn't flowered since - maybe this year if I can get it to grow better roots. My plant endured colder conditions in winter, down to 5 C occasionally, a dry period. It seems like a steady grower, but not super fast, nor slow.


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## spujr (Aug 7, 2016)

I've moved my armenicum and micanthum in a basket. I've seen some growth but it's slow. Maybe I am just impatient, but was hoping for more after 1 year. The micanthum grew 1 leaf but lost 2. It was getting more water so I oriented it in a newer position that should be a tad bit drier. The arm is doing better with new leaves on both but no new shoots and nothing exciting. During the spring/summer, they sit under a mister that goes off about 8 times during the day (the first watering is long in the morning around 8am, the other 7 times are just for 1 minute, used mainly to keep things cool and humid during the hottest time of the day, about 80-100F). The mister drips after each watering so the plants are constantly wet, but since they are in a basket, they have good air movement almost all the time. In the winter I water much less. Light levels are around 1,000fc at noon (summer).


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