# Cattleya tenebrosa ‘Rainforest’ FCC/AOS



## DrLeslieEe (Jun 14, 2020)

These blooms crept up on me when I wasn’t looking lol.

A very old classic of the species, used in breeding the tenebrosas we see today. In fact, I bred this with a fantastic round flowered tenebrosa from GlenD couple years ago and the seedlings are all in flasks now.

Flowers can be large, around 22 cm if happy. Unfortunately my plant needed repotting and the flowers were not big this year. From a division.


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## dodidoki (Jun 14, 2020)

One of my favourite laelia.


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## Djthomp28 (Jun 14, 2020)

This species is so striking. I just wish it was smaller


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## PeteM (Jun 14, 2020)

Yes. I’m in the market for this species. Krull smith has a nice big one for sale but ... it’s BIG. I need more room.


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## DrLeslieEe (Jun 15, 2020)

PeteM said:


> Yes. I’m in the market for this species. Krull smith has a nice big one for sale but ... it’s BIG. I need more room.


They do get quite tall but with small footprint. The newer ones are slightly shorter.

However the alba and the aurea versions are about 1.5 feet tall, so maybe try those if you can find them. This is one of my tenebrosa aurea blooming at a friend’s GH (thanks to Dave).


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## DrLeslieEe (Jun 15, 2020)

Update of this Rainforest. The blooms are expanded to about 17 cm NS today.


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## Vox (Jun 16, 2020)

Lovely species. Your aurea is great! There shall be also an alba form out there, but who has it ever seen? Is yours smelling?


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## dodidoki (Jun 16, 2020)

Vox said:


> Lovely species. Your aurea is great! There shall be also an alba form out there, but who has it ever seen? Is yours smelling?


Alba form is on way to me....not was too cheap...


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## DrLeslieEe (Jun 17, 2020)

Thanks all. 

Yes lightly fragrant.

The albas are notoriously hard to grow but not impossible.They just need more attention.


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## SouthPark (Jun 17, 2020)

The brown colour tepals of Rainforest is just so nice to see.


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## Guldal (Jun 17, 2020)

Both colour forms can only elicit 'Ah's and 'Oh's from this party! 

But can anybody give me a reasonable explanation, why this is (now transferred to?) Cattleya? I've never seen anything looking so Laeliaish?


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## tomp (Jun 17, 2020)

A happy b


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## PeteM (Jun 17, 2020)

tomp said:


> A happy bView attachment 20737
> View attachment 20737


Wow, which variety is this? The pattern on the petals. so many flowers for such a small basket, looks like it's been in there for a long time. Well done and very impressive.


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## DrLeslieEe (Jun 17, 2020)

I agree with Pete. Lovely basket culture of this tenebrosa! 

Looks like the plant takes high light like mine.


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## DrLeslieEe (Jun 17, 2020)

Guldal said:


> Both colour forms can only elicit 'Ah's and 'Oh's from this party!
> 
> But can anybody give me a reasonable explanation, why this is (now transferred to?) Cattleya? I've never seen anything looking so Laeliaish?


Thanks Jens.

The taxonomy of this is based on the DNA studies by Dr. Chase where they look at specific markers and determined it to belong to Cattleya. I am a little wary of this renaming as it is still in infancy stage.

I still think it is a Laelia lol


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## tomp (Jun 17, 2020)

PeteM said:


> Wow, which variety is this? The pattern on the petals. so many flowers for such a small basket, looks like it's been in there for a long time. Well done and very impressive.


L. tenebrosa Maria Fumaca with 17 cm NS


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## tomp (Jun 17, 2020)

DrLeslieEe said:


> I agree with Pete. Lovely basket culture of this tenebrosa!
> 
> Looks like the plant takes high light like mine.


Yes good bright location . I either mount or grow open basket anytime I can. Plants are soo much happier if their roots can breathe freely


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## SouthPark (Jun 18, 2020)

DrLeslieEe said:


> Unfortunately my plant needed repotting and the flowers were not big this year. From a division.



True! The very last photo way down the bottom shows the bulbs to be sort of on the dry side. Only just noticed it.


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## DrLeslieEe (Jun 18, 2020)

SouthPark said:


> True! The very last photo way down the bottom shows the bulbs to be sort of on the dry side. Only just noticed it.


Yes indeed lol
Next year with more attention, it should bloom much better.


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## setaylien (Jun 18, 2020)

Guldal said:


> Both colour forms can only elicit 'Ah's and 'Oh's from this party!
> 
> But can anybody give me a reasonable explanation, why this is (now transferred to?) Cattleya? I've never seen anything looking so Laeliaish?


Guldal, there is no logical or scientific reason to reverse 200 years of botanic tradition and lump together Cattleya, Laelia and Sophronitis species. John Lindley decided to separate Laelia from Cattleya because Laelias have 8 pollinia, Cattleyas normally only 4. There are observable differences in size, plant habit, morphology and anatomical details which all add up to the conclusion these genera should be kept separate. Every time I see "Cattleya grandis" or "Cattleya coccinea" in print I inwardly cringe. The truth is, cladistic studies conducted by Wesley Higgins and others are really in their infancy and I seriously doubt that we currently have the knowledge to use such data as a basis for classifying plants. Dr. Carl Withner specialized in his long botanic career in the Cattleyas and their relatives and he never considered for a moment to lump very different orchids together merely because they shared some similar genes. 
The truth is, lumping is currently in vogue with some botanists and they currently (and I hope, momentarily) dominate the orchid scene. You could use their logic to call human beings apes, too, but I for one would still like to be considered a member of Homo sapiens.


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## Guldal (Jun 18, 2020)

setaylien said:


> Guldal, there is no logical or scientific reason to reverse 200 years of botanic tradition and lump together Cattleya, Laelia and Sophronitis species. John Lindley decided to separate Laelia from Cattleya because Laelias have 8 pollinia, Cattleyas normally only 4. There are observable differences in size, plant habit, morphology and anatomical details which all add up to the conclusion these genera should be kept separate. Every time I see "Cattleya grandis" or "Cattleya coccinea" in print I inwardly cringe. The truth is, cladistic studies conducted by Wesley Higgins and others are really in their infancy and I seriously doubt that we currently have the knowledge to use such data as a basis for classifying plants. Dr. Carl Withner specialized in his long botanic career in the Cattleyas and their relatives and he never considered for a moment to lump very different orchids together merely because they shared some similar genes.
> The truth is, lumping is currently in vogue with some botanists and they currently (and I hope, momentarily) dominate the orchid scene. You could use their logic to call human beings apes, too, but I for one would still like to be considered a member of Homo sapiens.


Thank you for taking the time to expound upon this subject, setaylien!
In the realm of Paphiopedilum I tend to be in the camp of the lumperers, as I find, that often rather insignificant and smaller differences are being used to herald new varieties - differences, that in my opinion would be better understood as an expression of the range of variation within the typical variety.
With Sophronitis, though, I whole heartedly share your feelings - and, thank God, the taxonomy police doesn't have access to my window sill, where I'm clinging to my tags of Sophronitis, whilst stonewalling! 
Being only of middle age, I never the less feel a bit like a dinosaur of 80+ years, when it comes to "Phalaenopsis japonica"...muttering under my breath : "For me you will always remain Sedirea japonica" (no matter where the plant actually belongs, anything else would be such a shame...throwing one a the very few botanical jokes out with the bath water!")


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## dodidoki (Jun 18, 2020)

setaylien said:


> Guldal, there is no logical or scientific reason to reverse 200 years of botanic tradition and lump together Cattleya, Laelia and Sophronitis species. John Lindley decided to separate Laelia from Cattleya because Laelias have 8 pollinia, Cattleyas normally only 4. There are observable differences in size, plant habit, morphology and anatomical details which all add up to the conclusion these genera should be kept separate. Every time I see "Cattleya grandis" or "Cattleya coccinea" in print I inwardly cringe. The truth is, cladistic studies conducted by Wesley Higgins and others are really in their infancy and I seriously doubt that we currently have the knowledge to use such data as a basis for classifying plants. Dr. Carl Withner specialized in his long botanic career in the Cattleyas and their relatives and he never considered for a moment to lump very different orchids together merely because they shared some similar genes.
> The truth is, lumping is currently in vogue with some botanists and they currently (and I hope, momentarily) dominate the orchid scene. You could use their logic to call human beings apes, too, but I for one would still like to be considered a member of Homo sapiens.


Totally agree.There was a clear and logical standard for classifying them.New taxinomical system is only a chaos for me.


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## DrLeslieEe (Jun 19, 2020)

And it *Neofinetia falcata*, folks!


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## NYEric (Jun 19, 2020)

As a slipper person, I can confidently say, "Cattleya"!!


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## KyushuCalanthe (Jun 19, 2020)

Holy Guacamole Tomp, that is one awesome plant you have!


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## tomp (Jun 20, 2020)

Thanks. I love tenebrosa and have a couple of different color forms and the hybrid Pacavia (tenebrosa x purpurata ) but do not have a nice aurea form So looking.


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## tomp (Jun 20, 2020)

Here is the Pacavia. It’s a nice plant but not much of an improvement on either species


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## PeteM (Jun 20, 2020)

Thanks for sharing, I have never seen this primary cross before.

If one were looking for a Maria Fumaca, have you seen any nurseries make these available? Where should one look?


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## tomp (Jun 20, 2020)

PeteM said:


> Thanks for sharing, I have never seen this primary cross before.
> 
> If one were looking for a Maria Fumaca, have you seen any nurseries make these available? Where should one look?


Pete, I have not seen. I got mine from an older grower who passed some time ago. If I see one Or if I divide I’ll post.
In the same vain if one were looking for a nice yellow/aurea any idea where to look?


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## SouthPark (Jun 20, 2020)

tomp said:


> Here is the Pacavia. It’s a nice plant but not much of an improvement on either species



Nice!!!!!! But that is just one Pacavia. Maybe other children from that cross can look different.


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## DrLeslieEe (Jun 20, 2020)

tomp said:


> Pete, I have not seen. I got mine from an older grower who passed some time ago. If I see one Or if I divide I’ll post.
> In the same vain if one were looking for a nice yellow/aurea any idea where to look?


Try Sunset Valley (Fred), Orchids Limited (Jerry) or EBay (where I got my aurea, not sure who though?)


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## PeteM (Jun 20, 2020)

L. tenebrosa aurea (`Walton Grange' FCC/RHS x self) 2.5" Pot


L. tenebrosa aurea (`Walton Grange' FCC/RHS x self) (species) From the late 1800's this form still stands today as a very unique color. This is the very desirable yellow color form of the species. We are very pleased to offer these selfings of a truly unique plant. Limited offering.




www.waldor.com





There is a Father’s Day code for 10% off. DADDY

only 3 left on their website


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## SouthPark (Jun 20, 2020)

So what's the go with tenebrosa and purpurata? They got transferred to the cattleya group due to DNA checkups, right?


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## DrLeslieEe (Jun 20, 2020)

PeteM said:


> L. tenebrosa aurea (`Walton Grange' FCC/RHS x self) 2.5" Pot
> 
> 
> L. tenebrosa aurea (`Walton Grange' FCC/RHS x self) (species) From the late 1800's this form still stands today as a very unique color. This is the very desirable yellow color form of the species. We are very pleased to offer these selfings of a truly unique plant. Limited offering.
> ...


Get it DADDY!


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## DrLeslieEe (Jun 20, 2020)

SouthPark said:


> So what's the go with tenebrosa and purpurata? They got transferred to the cattleya group due to DNA checkups, right?


Yup that’s why. Poor things...


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## tomp (Jun 21, 2020)

DrLeslieEe said:


> Get it DADDY!


Got it! Thank You Pete


PeteM said:


> L. tenebrosa aurea (`Walton Grange' FCC/RHS x self) 2.5" Pot
> 
> 
> L. tenebrosa aurea (`Walton Grange' FCC/RHS x self) (species) From the late 1800's this form still stands today as a very unique color. This is the very desirable yellow color form of the species. We are very pleased to offer these selfings of a truly unique plant. Limited offering.
> ...


GOT IT! THANK YOU PETE


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## tomp (Jun 21, 2020)

DrLeslieEe said:


> Yup that’s why. Poor things...


One just has to be careful using the C word around those nice folks from Brazil


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## SouthPark (Jun 21, 2020)

tomp said:


> One just has to be careful using the C word around those nice folks from Brazil



It is true. Giant anacondas do not account for every orchid trekker disappearance from Brazil.


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## DrLeslieEe (Jun 21, 2020)

tomp said:


> Got it! Thank You Pete
> 
> GOT IT! THANK YOU PETE


Congrats! Yayyyy....


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## DrLeslieEe (Jun 21, 2020)

SouthPark said:


> It is true. Giant anacondas do not account for every orchid trekker disappearance from Brazil.


In Brazil now, the most dangerous is the current leader. Wear your masks folks.


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## PeteM (Jun 21, 2020)

tomp said:


> Got it! Thank You Pete
> 
> GOT IT! THANK YOU PETE



Wow, FANTASTIC. That was close.. they are sold out this AM.


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## tomp (Jun 21, 2020)

PeteM said:


> Wow, FANTASTIC. That was close.. they are sold out this AM.


Yeah, Thanks to you, I bought the last two. ))


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## DrLeslieEe (Jun 21, 2020)

We are so great at enabling each other lol


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## Ozpaph (Jun 22, 2020)

I hope my plant with those two cultivars as parents turns out nice!


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