# Carbon monoxide harmful to plants?



## papheteer (Jan 2, 2014)

This morning we were told to evacuate our condo building because they detected some carbon monoxide in the air. Is it harmful to the paphs I had in there? I do have some fans in the small room they are in.


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## naoki (Jan 2, 2014)

I don't think so. According to this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2634307/

CO could help cell expansion of root, so you can use CO instead of Kelp (the abstract says it has the similar effect to IAA, which is an auxin).


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## TyroneGenade (Jan 2, 2014)

Hello,

CO is toxic to use because it binds to the the heme groups in our hemoglobin. This prevents them from being able to bind oxygen. I was told once by my biochem prof that if we every suspected CO poisoning we shouldn't move. Moving increasing the need for O2 and then rapidly depletes the O2 in the blood stream. The hemolobin in our red blood cells can't carry any O2 so then we pass out and die... Very sad... But, the good news is that your plant doesn't have hemoglobin or a large demand for oxygen so it should be fine. The plant does have heme-binding proteins so it my have trouble doing somethings it would ordinarily do.


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## SlipperFan (Jan 2, 2014)

Well, a member of our orchid society collected plants at her home for an upcoming show. After a day or so, the flowers started dying. That's how she learned she had a faulty heater that was putting out CO. Apparently it affected the flowers before it affected the people.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jan 2, 2014)

Faulty heaters also put out ethylene, which is known to blast flowers and buds.


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## Erythrone (Jan 2, 2014)

Eric Muehlbauer said:


> Faulty heaters also put out ethylene, which is known to blast flowers and buds.



That is what I thought too


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## NYEric (Jan 2, 2014)

Let us know how your CO experiment goes.


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## SlipperFan (Jan 3, 2014)

Eric Muehlbauer said:


> Faulty heaters also put out ethylene, which is known to blast flowers and buds.


I should have said furnace. It was carbon monoxide.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jan 3, 2014)

I think same applies to furnaces. Certainly applies to stoves. Actually, I meant heater in a very general way, including furnace, hot water heater, etc.


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## PaphMadMan (Jan 4, 2014)

Anything burning that is producing CO is going to produce ethylene and other incomplete combustion products too. For a human or any other red blooded animal, every molecule of CO that comes in contact with hemoglobin gets bound and as it builds up is harmful because it interferes with oxygen distribution in the body. There is no comparable mechanism for it to harm plants, no way for it to accumulate. But the ethylene that must also be there, and is essentially harmless to humans, will cause bud and leaf drop, and possibly trigger senescence and death in a plant. CO just isn't likely to harm plants at any concentration obtained by combustion in an open system, and the presence of ethylene and other incomplete combustion products is the simplest explanation for any harm caused to plants.


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## littlefrog (Jan 4, 2014)

What he said...

As an aside, during our recent power outage of a far too long duration, I was burning propane in the barn to keep the plants warm. I didn't have much choice. 'Outdoor' propane burners, not for indoor use, and the plants were fine (I made a point not to be in there while the burners were going). I didn't see any particular damage, not that I have much in bloom right now.

I also used kerosene or diesel 'turbo' heaters in the greenhouse, never had any flower damage. Not my heating source of choice, but it didn't seem to harm the plants. Loud! 

Secondary aside, now that the power is back on in mid michigan for everybody, I can't find a generator anywhere. They had restocked last week, but I guess everybody had the same thought as I did and decided they should buy a replacement generator before the next storm. Which is today...


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## SlipperFan (Jan 4, 2014)

We put our propane heater in Bill Porter's greenhouse on Christmas day, when his generator failed. We figured there was so much air leakage in there that CO wouldn't accumulate in any harmful amount. Probably the same for your barn, Rob.

How long were you without power? I heard that one of our GLOS members (Julie B) was w/o power for 10 days, and speculates she lost about a third of her collection.


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## littlefrog (Jan 5, 2014)

Three days? Maybe 3.5. Definitely living a lie in the barn. I insulated the hell out of it, but didn't anticipate power going out for 3 days in 10 degree nights... My backup plan was insufficient, although without the excessive insulation it would have been a catastrophe. 

Our generator stopped generating (motor runs, doesn't make power) about 2 hours before the lights came back on... Blind luck, if it had quit 24 hours earlier I'd have been really screwed. Now I know I need two, one for the house and one for the plants.


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## papheteer (Jan 5, 2014)

Wow, lots of info! Thanks guys!

Quick update: it's been 3 days and no plant seems damaged in any way.


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## papheteer (Jan 5, 2014)

Hope you're doing fine over there! Sending you good vibes.



littlefrog said:


> What he said...
> 
> As an aside, during our recent power outage of a far too long duration, I was burning propane in the barn to keep the plants warm. I didn't have much choice. 'Outdoor' propane burners, not for indoor use, and the plants were fine (I made a point not to be in there while the burners were going). I didn't see any particular damage, not that I have much in bloom right now.
> 
> ...


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## SlipperFan (Jan 5, 2014)

I hope this latest snow storm/wind/sub-freezing temps doesn't cause more outages.


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## NYEric (Jan 6, 2014)

Snowmagedon!


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## Paphluvr (Jan 14, 2014)

"I was told once by my biochem prof that if we ever suspected CO poisoning we shouldn't move."

Interesting! Than how do you get to fresh air?


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## SlipperFan (Jan 14, 2014)

It does sound rather counter-productive!


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## TyroneGenade (Jan 14, 2014)

Paphluvr said:


> "I was told once by my biochem prof that if we ever suspected CO poisoning we shouldn't move."
> 
> Interesting! Than how do you get to fresh air?



You don't... but if you stay calm then someone should eventually arrive in the lab to to open a window. It wasn't a particularly good plan but if you paniced and tried to get out you blood O2 levels would crash and that would be the end of you quicker than the other way round.

In that lab people were coming and going at all hours so it was an OK plan for an unlikely event (we worked with the CO in the fume cupboard). In reality you die :sob:

As CO is an odorless invisible gas you would never know... You would just fall asleep and die.

Anyway, what happened to the plants?


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## DavidCampen (Jan 15, 2014)

I use one of these Coleman catalytic propane heaters inside my orchid room.
http://www.coleman.com/product/2000004165#.UtbUVrHTlpg
I have it connected via piping to 20 lb propane tanks outside. I have slept in a large tent with 2 of these burning during the night and I still woke up the next morning.

Here is a non-vented, catalytic propane heater intended for RVs, it puts out more heat than the Coleman catalytic heaters.
http://www.adventurerv.net/olympian-wave-catalytic-safety-heater-p-1706.html

Another brand of non-vented catalytic heater.
http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/big-buddy-heater/34073


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## NYEric (Jan 16, 2014)

Paphluvr said:


> "I was told once by my biochem prof that if we ever suspected CO poisoning we shouldn't move."



That's what the Port Authority initially told people to do when the planes flew into the buildings on 911! 
When in doubt, get out!


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## SlipperFan (Jan 16, 2014)

Good reasoning, Eric.


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