# Paphiopedilum papuanum stagnating



## Alex (Sep 22, 2015)

Hi all,

I have three of these from Popow about a year ago. Two flowered straight away, very nice, but they have done precisely nothing since. Not grown a single cm of leaf, just one has lost a basal leaf through natural senescence. generally, they look well and they aren't rotting away, just stagnating. By contrast, the smaller one that didn't flower is growing really well and may now flower this year. 

I have heard of this stagnating or dwindling away after flowering in other species, though not really experienced it before. Can anyone suggest an explanation or remedy?

Growing conditions are pretty standard, other than I grow in pure Seramis. Feeding is K lite, relatively weak, moisture is relatively high.

Any advice welcomed!

Thanks,

Alex


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## NYEric (Sep 22, 2015)

Did you feed them during the growing season?


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## Alex (Sep 22, 2015)

Hi Eric,

Yes, they get fed weakly all year round. It is the contrast between the performance of the young plant and the previously flowered ones which puzzles me, all follow the same feeding regime.

Cheers,

Alex


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## troy (Sep 22, 2015)

Temp change night & day?, season change (light duration)?


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## consettbay2003 (Sep 22, 2015)

In my opinion growing paphs in seramis is not a good idea. Even if you sift 
out all the dust and small bits what you are left with is still much too fine for
paphs roots.


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## Bjorn (Sep 23, 2015)

Is there anyone that actually have experience with this species? I have two of them myself, that seem to get along but might tend towards a negative development(hopefully not). I grow them relatively warm(17-28 night/day) and moist and at moderately low light.


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## Alex (Sep 23, 2015)

Bjorn - have they flowered, or are they building up to their first flower?


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## Bjorn (Sep 23, 2015)

No, just smallish plants, how big do they get btw?


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## Alex (Sep 23, 2015)

Judging by mine, same diameter as violascens although with narrower leaves


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## Bjorn (Sep 23, 2015)

So, 8-9cm across?


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## Brabantia (Sep 23, 2015)

consettbay2003 said:


> In my opinion growing paphs in seramis is not a good idea. Even if you sift
> out all the dust and small bits what you are left with is still much too fine for
> paphs roots.



It is what I have immédiately thought when I have read this thread.


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## Alex (Sep 23, 2015)

Actually, they like it a lot if you get the feeding right. I know quite a few successful Seramis growers. It may not suit epiphytes but Paphs are mostly geophytic and have roots adapted for that. I have some very nice root growth in this medium, and it is a big bonus that it does not degrade and repotting is only for upsizing pots.

Phrags like it a lot too.

Bjorn, 8-10 cm per leaf, total leafspan 15-20cm


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## myxodex (Oct 1, 2015)

I've had this "dormant" paphs after flowering syndrome. One a hybrid Cymatodes, was dormant for about three years and started growing after I began adding a bit of tap water to my regime (5% V/V in rain water) . The other a P cerveranum did not despond to this change but has started growing slowly again after I started adding a bit of humic acid to my mix, just a few drops in 5L. Whether these results are coincidental or not I have no way of knowing, but at least, this "dormancy" can be reversed sometimes by small changes.

If you are using only RO water you could add some tap water to augment the very low SO4 in Klite or add small amount of ammonium sulphate once in a while. 

Interesting species to have ! Good luck.


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## Rick (Oct 3, 2015)

I have 4 left from a group of 5 seedlings from the Ten Shin shipment we did a couple (3?) of years ago.

They have not bloomed so can't be sure if they are really papuanum, but 3 are growing pretty good, and 2 are what I would say are very good/aggressive and have reached blooming size. The biggest is about 2/3 the size of my mastersianum so about 9" (24cm) across.

They are all in wood baskets mostly coarse rock, and live moss is growing well.

The biggest one is hanging and fairly bright conditions, but all the others are in a shady spot. They don't seem to picky about light. The humidity is always high (70% min).

They get fertigated every day with RO water touched up with a small amount of K lite (2-5ppm N concentration), well water, Mg-PO4/SO4 supplement and now 6 drops per gallon of lemon juice.

The recent addition of lemon juice has greened things up a bit and seems to increased leaf elongation and more roots. (lots of plants and not just the papuanum).

I also recently picked up a ziekianum from SlipperKing, that is settling fine into the program, but its very early to tell.

Overall I don't think these are much different in culture to mastersianum, which I've had for much longer, but we'll see.

Also see if Dodioki has responded on this thread.


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## Rick (Oct 3, 2015)

Bjorn said:


> No, just smallish plants, how big do they get btw?



From looking Cribbs book they are 1/2 to 2/3 the size of mastersianum. So should expect >20cm across.


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## Alex (Oct 3, 2015)

Thanks all. Rick, thanks for this. Aside from the basket, the culture is not wildly dissimilar to what I've given them. Mine grew really well before flowering and my not yet flowered one continues to grow fairly vigorously, so i hope yours don't do as mine and stagnate after the flowers appear. Please show pics when they do!

Cheers,

Alex


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## Rick (Oct 3, 2015)

What is your feed rate Alex (concentration, and frequency).

Similar to what a few of us have experienced with anitum or aductum, this species may thrive at very low feeding rates.


Also have you tried lemon juice? Under high nitrate loads the plants may be locked up with high internal pH, and could use a jolt of citric acid to wake them up.

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36559&highlight=papuanum

Hopefully Dodidoki can throw in on this thread.


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## dodidoki (Oct 4, 2015)

Cool, all of I wrote lost because of re-logging in....So here are my plants, first is one year old, I got as single growth with dried stem now it has a new growth. Second is flowered, linked by Rick, older growth died back, two new growht are growing fine. Third is a smaller plant. I tried few mix but I think they like better pure bark. Very important factor is low cc fertilizer what never higher than 60 ppm . I use K-lite with lemon juice( half lemon to 100 L water), results are good till this time however test period is fairly short now.


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## dodidoki (Oct 4, 2015)

by the way: I tried with Seramis few years ago, all of plants died or had to remove before dieing.


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## Alex (Oct 4, 2015)

Rick and Dodidoki, thanks so much, especially for the pictures.

Dodidoki, your plants look good. It sounds as though your first plant also sat for at least a year after flowering before putting up a new shoot (assuming you've had it a year as you say). So maybe this isn't uncommon? My two flowered plants look exactly like your first picture, only without the new shoot sadly. My third plant, which btw is an (accidental) division of one of the flowered ones, is really vigorous and may flower soon. I have to say, it loves being in Seramis, and has busted new roots out all over the surface...I'll try to photograph it later so you can see.

I grow with Seramis in a tray based system, so feed strengths can be complicated to calculate as it accumulates and then breaks down at an uncertain rate. However, it is fair to say I use *very* little, adding low strength K lite about once a month. This will be supplemented by some decomposed organic material in the collected rainwater that I use. This regime is empirical, in that I started off feeding almost nothing and have increased until now I feel growth and colour are generally good.

I grow adductum and anitum under very similar conditions to the papuanum, and think that they look healthy - actually, on this subject I have to make time to photograph a flower and post it in the next day or two 

I will check out the lemon juice thread - this is completely new to me.

Cheers,

Alex


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## Rick (Oct 4, 2015)

Here's a link to another good paper on citric/malic acid used for plants.

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/aag/2014/147278/


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## Alex (Nov 28, 2015)

By way of an update - just noticed that the larger of the two stagnant plants is putting up a new growth! Perhaps patience is the key...

Alex


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## NYEric (Nov 28, 2015)

Rick said:


> I have 4 left from a group of 5 seedlings from the Ten Shin shipment we did a couple (3?) of years ago.



You are a GOD!!!


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