# Phrag. Paph. Hybrid



## heliomum (Mar 4, 2008)

:rollhappy::rollhappy::rollhappy::rollhappy: Are there any hybrids or attempts at making cross-genera hybrids with slipper orchids? e.g. Paphiopedilum, Phragmepedium, Selenipedium, Cypripedium, Mexipedium


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## Candace (Mar 4, 2008)

Yes...attempts and claims.


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## Roy (Mar 4, 2008)

I'm with Candace. Don't believe a word of such hybrids being made.


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## smartie2000 (Mar 5, 2008)

Just a thought, I haven't really seen a paph hybrid out there that would look like the photos of Phragmipaphium besseae x micrantum and besseae x malipoense on Dr Tanaka website. http://www.orchid.or.jp/orchid/people/tanaka/Special/enbxm.html
The best guess is cochlo cross if they were false.

I heard mexipedium crossed with phrags, but some aborted, some germinated and died young and none bloomed


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## mccallen (Mar 5, 2008)

I think the fact that there's more than a little cochlopetalum and _less_ than a smidgen of Phrag cast about those pictures would be enough to convince me that they are straight Paph.


There are pictures of Phragmipaphium Hanes Magic in books and online (here) as well. As others have said before me, none are really convincing.


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## NYEric (Mar 5, 2008)

Anything is possible.


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## Candace (Mar 5, 2008)

> Anything is possible.


 Do you believe in leprechauns, Eric?:rollhappy:


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## NYEric (Mar 5, 2008)

Not really; ghosts, spirits, or conscious beings on astral plane, why not? Some people don't believe in evolution. I'm still open on god.


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## Roy (Mar 6, 2008)

I'm a little partial to spirits myself.


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## paphreek (Mar 6, 2008)

:rollhappy::rollhappy::rollhappy:


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## Heather (Mar 6, 2008)

No. 

(really, did we need nine posts?)


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## NYEric (Mar 6, 2008)

I don't agree. Look at the Lion/Tiger or other x-species hybrids.


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## Hien (Mar 6, 2008)

-I agree with Eric, I think it is possible( because we have not seen it before, does not mean that it can not happen or already happen) And if we are saying that it is impossible, we will become very close minded.
-It sounds crazy, but I thought that the red color in besseae maybe a result from a jump that incorporate the red color gene from another orchid flower (that was not even a phrag). All it takes is one crazy insect that visited two different species.
And by some weird coincidence, the original "green/brown" besseae decided to incorporate the red piece of the gene from the foreign pollen.
Don't the scientists now create all sorts of GMO things.
http://209.85.207.104/search?q=cach...odified_organism+GMO&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us


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## NYEric (Mar 6, 2008)

Hien, You mean those fish aren't painted!?!


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## smartie2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

Some are injected with dye, and some are genetically modified. Guess what the genetically modified glo fish are banned in Canada


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## NYEric (Mar 6, 2008)

I'll trade you for a jackii or hangianum!


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## smartie2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

> sounds crazy, but I thought that the red color in besseae maybe a result from a jump that incorporate the red color gene from another orchid flower (that was not even a phrag). All it takes is one crazy insect that visited two different species.
> And by some weird coincidence, the original "green/brown" besseae decided to incorporate the red piece of the gene from the foreign pollen.



I think the red pigment have been around in angiosperms and orchids for a while. If there was an insect pollentation event with another genera of plant is nearly impossible because phrags are so derived. I think hybrid only possibly only with other cypripedioideae if it were to happen (and they already have anthocyanin). Anthocyanin which contributes to red and pinks is present in many diff slipper spp and on diff continents. Somehow besseae had mutation to load up on anthocyanin

what pollentates beseae? (bees?) It is possible the red was selected by its pollenator


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## kentuckiense (Mar 6, 2008)

I'm pretty sure besseae is pollinated by a small bee, probably an Andrenid or a Halictid or something. I don't really know my bees.

As for Paph x Phrag, I don't think it has happened. I've seen Mexi x Phrag, and I don't think it is real either. Such crosses may happen one day, but I'm not holding my breath. Additionally, I'd think slipper orchids would be pretty terrible candidates to be made GMOs. Generation time is, at best, 4 or 5 years and there just isn't any money in it compared to agricultural crops like soybeans, corn, wheat, and rice. I don't think we'll be seeing any Monsanto Phrags any time soon.


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## Candace (Mar 6, 2008)

> I don't agree. Look at the Lion/Tiger or other x-species hybrids.



Now you're just having flashbacks from watching Humanzee the other night! Anyone else see it?


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## Heather (Mar 6, 2008)

I'm totally with Zach on this one. Don't think it's very viable (in case that wasn't clear from my last message!) oke:


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## smartie2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

...also the whale and dolphin crosses too


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## PaphMadMan (Mar 6, 2008)

Hien said:


> -I agree with Eric, I think it is possible( because we have not seen it before, does not mean that it can not happen or already happen) And if we are saying that it is impossible, we will become very close minded.
> -It sounds crazy, but I thought that the red color in besseae maybe a result from a jump that incorporate the red color gene from another orchid flower (that was not even a phrag). All it takes is one crazy insect that visited two different species.
> And by some weird coincidence, the original "green/brown" besseae decided to incorporate the red piece of the gene from the foreign pollen.
> Don't the scientists now create all sorts of GMO things.
> http://209.85.207.104/search?q=cach...odified_organism+GMO&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us



A GMO-style gene transfer isn't easy to get even when you're trying. I know, it used to be my job. If it was going to happen naturally it would probably involve a virus carrying a snip of DNA between hosts rather than a random pollination event. But the presence of red pigment is a simple evolutionary change from typical green/brown phrag colors, just take away the green and tweak the shade of the anthocyanin from the more typical magenta. The simpler explanation is usually correct.

PaphMadMan (Kirk)


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