# Scales!!



## papheteer (Apr 12, 2013)

I just found some scales on a brachy a bought 2 months ago from our show. I am gonna spray it with Safer's End all 2 and maybe treat it with Merit 75. Do I treat all the plants that were beside it as well?


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## Paphman910 (Apr 12, 2013)

Yes, good idea!


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## nikv (Apr 12, 2013)

By all means treat the neighboring plants, too. It's very likely they've spread in the past two months. Good luck!


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## papheteer (Apr 12, 2013)

Is Merit 75 drench effective against scales?


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## jtrmd (Apr 12, 2013)

papheteer said:


> Is Merit 75 drench effective against scales?



I rotate merit with orthene when I see anything.Haven't seen scale in my gh in awhile,well until I just jinxed myself. I get the occasional visits from mealy bugs though.


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## eggshells (Apr 12, 2013)

70% alcohol if you're up to manual labour.


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## abax (Apr 13, 2013)

Orthene 97% granular will take care of the scale very quickly. I've not
been impressed with Merit and it's expensive. Orthene is not. I'd drench
everything in the greenhouse if the scale has been around for two months.
Scale is a sneaky bastid!


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## gonewild (Apr 13, 2013)

Have you checked to see if the scales are alive or not? It is possible the grower had already killed them and what you see are the empty shells.
No need to spray if they are not alive.


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## TyroneGenade (Apr 13, 2013)

Might I suggest malathion? I worked like a bomb for me. One application it knocked off everything that was an insect. I let some of the run-off seep into the soil around my lemon tree and the next day the scale on the lemon tree was gone too---so it has a systemic property to it too. It is also harmless to humans---which is great!


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## Trithor (Apr 13, 2013)

It is only harmless to humans you don't like!


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## TyroneGenade (Apr 13, 2013)

No, it is apparently totally harmless, even if you drink it: http://articles.latimes.com/1989-11-10/local/me-1151_1_diluted-malathion


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## jtrmd (Apr 13, 2013)

TyroneGenade said:


> It is also harmless to humans---which is great!



Some one has been sniffing the fumes too long,HAHAHAHAHAHA!

from a quick google search since I dont have the label around to read because I dont use it since it smells worse than Orthene and lingers around longer.


From the first hit on http://www.livestrong.com/article/274407-side-effects-of-malathion/


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## jtrmd (Apr 13, 2013)

TyroneGenade said:


> No, it is apparently totally harmless, even if you drink it: http://articles.latimes.com/1989-11-10/local/me-1151_1_diluted-malathion




In 1989 they also thought denim shorts,mustaches,and mullets were a good look.


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## cnycharles (Apr 13, 2013)

ha ha I actually remember the press story about the politician or whoever who drank the glass of malathion to try and 'prove' that it was harmless. I don't remember exactly, but i'm pretty sure it isn't 'harmless' 

http://www.chem-tox.com/malathion/research/

testing shows that most all malathion used has contaminants, and these cause many problems. also, when malathion is stored in the container for any expanse of time, it changes and there are more contaminants present, especially if it is stored where it gets hot. some studies showed that pure malathion didn't do so much damage or cause problems, but that it is very unlikely that a container of malathion doesn't have contaminants present

i'm not sure if i would eat any lemons from your tree for a while...


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## DavidCampen (Apr 13, 2013)

A federal government sponsored database shows the No Observable Effect Level (NOEL) for malathion in humans to be 25 mg/kg/day; for someone who weighs 60 kg (132 pounds) this would mean that a dose of 1.5 ml of pure malathion would produce no no observable effect. Malathion is typically sold at a strength of 50-60% so this would translate to a NOEL dose of 2.5 ml.

http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/haloxyfop-methylparathion/malathion-ext.html

http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/...emical Application & Safety/Malathion 5EC.pdf


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## DavidCampen (Apr 13, 2013)

cnycharles said:


> ha ha I actually remember the press story about the politician or whoever who drank the glass of malathion to try and 'prove' that it was harmless. I don't remember exactly, but i'm pretty sure it isn't 'harmless'
> 
> http://www.chem-tox.com/malathion/research/
> 
> i'm not sure if i would eat any lemons from your tree for a while...



That was in California 30 or 40 years ago. People were upset about a plan to spray malathion bait to try to control some sort of fruit fly so at a press conference this official drank some of the diluted malathion that was to be sprayed. I don't believe that he suffered any ill effects other than being severely criticized.

The chem-tox website seems to be a group of anti-chemical/anti-pesticide people. I doubt that they have ever met a chemical that they don't consider to be horribly toxic.


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## cnycharles (Apr 13, 2013)

well, that may be true (overly-excited anti-pesticide people), I would never advise anyone risk their health by eating anything that had any systemic pesticide in it. at least in ny, I don't know of any systemic pesticide that is allowed to be used for any crop that is meant to be eaten. you can only get away with it if you are growing something to be 'ornamental' or some other statement like that where you aren't growing the plant to harvest vegetables. it may be not overly harmful, but why take the chance is my thought


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## Ozpaph (Apr 13, 2013)

cnycharles said:


> well, that may be true (overly-excited anti-pesticide people), I would never advise anyone risk their health by eating anything that had any systemic pesticide in it. at least in ny, I don't know of any systemic pesticide that is allowed to be used for any crop that is meant to be eaten. you can only get away with it if you are growing something to be 'ornamental' or some other statement like that where you aren't growing the plant to harvest vegetables. it may be not overly harmful, but why take the chance is my thought



excellent advice and commonsense!!!


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## gonewild (Apr 13, 2013)

cnycharles said:


> well, that may be true (overly-excited anti-pesticide people), I would never advise anyone risk their health by eating anything that had any systemic pesticide in it. at least in ny, I don't know of any systemic pesticide that is allowed to be used for any crop that is meant to be eaten. you can only get away with it if you are growing something to be 'ornamental' or some other statement like that where you aren't growing the plant to harvest vegetables. it may be not overly harmful, but why take the chance is my thought



And Gold miners will drink Mercury to prove it is not toxic and it only proves they have no brain.
Malathion is extremely toxic and that is the reason to use it (and a reason not to),


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## Tom499 (Apr 13, 2013)

I agree with gonewild, do check they aren't dead, as scale will stay stuck onto the leaves after dying.

I have been fooled before!


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## 2Toned (Apr 13, 2013)

*Insect Repellent*

I going to go out on a limb here, but hey... I'm a noob  and if I don't take risks, I don't learn.

I've been using a common household insect repellent, Aerogard, (I'm not a fan of ....icides) to excellent effect on aphids, scale, ants, caterpillars, grubs, beetles and of course, mozzies, flies and ticks. The latter three don't bother the plants, but boy-oh-boy, they annoy the hell outta me when outdoors tending to my orchids!

The active ingredients are DEET and N-Octyl bicycloheptene dicarboximide.

To date, there's been no ill affects on my plants or my naturally jaundiced complexion.

Has anyone else tried this or similar products? If so, would you advise I continue use or cease & desist?


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## gonewild (Apr 13, 2013)

2Toned said:


> I going to go out on a limb here, but hey... I'm a noob  and if I don't take risks, I don't learn.
> 
> I've been using a common household insect repellent, Aerogard, (I'm not a fan of ....icides) to excellent effect on aphids, scale, ants, caterpillars, grubs, beetles and of course, mozzies, flies and ticks. The latter three don't bother the plants, but boy-oh-boy, they annoy the hell outta me when outdoors tending to my orchids!
> 
> ...



Are you applying it to yourself or plants?


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## jtrmd (Apr 13, 2013)

gonewild said:


> Malathion is extremely toxic and that is the reason to use it (and a reason not to),




I am a firm believer in the more toxic the better theory myself.I wouldn't mind getting some DDT.Thats if anyone still had some around that was still good.


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## gonewild (Apr 13, 2013)

jtrmd said:


> I am a firm believer in the more toxic the better theory myself.I wouldn't mind getting some DDT.Thats if anyone still had some around that was still good.



Chlordane was a big loss.


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## DavidCampen (Apr 13, 2013)

jtrmd said:


> I am a firm believer in the more toxic the better theory myself.I wouldn't mind getting some DDT.Thats if anyone still had some around that was still good.



DDT never goes bad, it will last for centuries, that was the problem with it.
There's a lot of DDT at the bottom of Santa Monica Bay, perhaps a hundred tons or so, courtesy of Montrose Chemicals who stopped producing it in 1982.

I would like to get my hands on some Dursban or Methiocarb to off some orchid snails. I have toyed with the idea of getting a pesticide applicators license so that I could buy the good stuff.


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## jtrmd (Apr 13, 2013)

DavidCampen said:


> DDT never goes bad, it will last for centuries, that was the problem with it.




I always thought the opposite,but I wasn't even born when it was being used by the local farmers.I never thought about getting certified to be able to get my hands on the good stuff,but its a good idea.


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## gonewild (Apr 13, 2013)

jtrmd said:


> .I never thought about gettin certified to be able to get my hands on the good stuff,but its a good idea.



Not really a good idea. There is a huge amount of legal responsibility that comes with the permits.


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## abax (Apr 14, 2013)

Yes sir, there is a good bit of responsibility that goes along with getting an
applicator certification including taking tests about every two years or so
in KY and inspections periodically. That said, I've been certified for almost
sixteen years and find that when I need a chemical in my greenhouse, I can
get it wholesale. While I'm lecturing, let me say that the chemicals I find
most effective in my greenhouse is Orthene 97% WP and Cleary's 3336.
I do use Physan to sanitize my potting counter and clean algae off the
floor. THE most effective item I've used for years is a type of cover for the louvers in my gh and yelling if anyone leaves the doors open. Charley's Greenhouse Supply has the material to cover openings that allow critters inside and it is very inexpensive and non-toxic. It only cuts
down air flow by 1%.


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## cnycharles (Apr 14, 2013)

how much do door-return springs for the doors cost?


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## Trithor (Apr 14, 2013)

I use chlordane on the farm for termites. Problem is it can leak into the water table if you don't apply it correctly or carefully and it is responsible for a wide range of horrid results. I certainly would not use it in town in my greenhouse.


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## Carkin (Apr 14, 2013)

papheteer said:


> I just found some scales on a brachy a bought 2 months ago from our show. I am gonna spray it with Safer's End all 2 and maybe treat it with Merit 75. Do I treat all the plants that were beside it as well?



I HATE scale!!!  I haven't tried Merit 75 but I had good success with Safer's End All 2. I found that I needed to do repeat applications but with vigilance I was able to get rid of those nasty critters. 
In between applications, a little trick that worked well for me was to shine a flashlight on the plants at night, the white cottony stuff practically glows white so you can catch the little colonies earlier, and then dab them with rubbing alcohol.
I hope they didn't make their way onto any of your other plants!


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## abax (Apr 14, 2013)

NYCharles, I'd rather yell...it leaves a lasting impression! In other words,
the garden clubs don't come back a second time. ;>)


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## NYEric (Apr 15, 2013)

2Toned said:


> The active ingredients are DEET and N-Octyl bicycloheptene dicarboximide.
> 
> 
> Has anyone else tried this or similar products? If so, would you advise I continue use or cease & desist?




These are effective on flying pests and things that attack animals. Not really good on scale, or mealies.


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## 2Toned (Apr 15, 2013)

Thanks, NYEric. I'll keep a close eye and see what effect it has. I'm a firm believer in evidence based practices.


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## gonewild (Apr 15, 2013)

If you are applying Deet directly to plants keep in mind that it also has oil and solvents in the bottled repellent. The deet repellent I use for my body will slowly dissolve rubber and paint. Not good for cameras. The solvents may damage some tender plant tissue so experiment before massive use.


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