# Board field trip to Ecuador/Peru 2007



## PHRAG (Jul 1, 2006)

Ok, so I have decided to go to Ecuador and possibly Peru in January of 2007. The invitation is open to everyone from the board that wants to go. The more the merrier. This is the thread for discussion of these two countries, and tips on traveling there. I am sure this thread is going to get pretty long over the next few months. So let's start planning!


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## kentuckiense (Jul 1, 2006)

I'll be on winter break most of January. However, I'm going to be realistic here and say that there's a very, very, very slim chance that I'd be able to go. However, planning is still really fun, so I'm still going to camp out in this thread.

Also, since this is a field trip, who is going to chaperone and make sure there isn't any making out going on in the back of the bus?


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## Wogga (Jul 1, 2006)

Ok. First thing - when can everyone go?? I am super duper stoked to go look at wild pleurothallids. i can barely contain myself!!!


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## Wogga (Jul 1, 2006)

making out? are we going to have orchid sex???:evil:


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## Marco (Jul 1, 2006)

ok everyone hold hands now. dont loose your partner and make sure to scream if you get lost oke:


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## Jon in SW Ohio (Jul 1, 2006)

I've got a couple grand in my pocket and a weeks paid vacation after Aug. 15th...get it finalized and I'm there.

I can't be held responsible for my actions while traveling to and from and during the trip though...especially since I will only drink beer to avoid Montezuma's revenge.

Jon
________
DRUGTEST


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## adiaphane (Jul 1, 2006)

Oh, I wish I could come... but not being a citizen of any country, I cannot get a hold of a passport. The only way for me to go and come back (I'm a permanent legal resident) is to get permission for rentry and to call the host country up first. Since this administration is a little iffy, I'd rather not risk it, and stay here until I can get my citizenship.

After that, let's all go to Vietnam. We'll go look at Parvis! I'll translate.


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## Heather (Jul 1, 2006)

...I'm definitely interested in tagging along. 



kentuckiense said:


> Also, since this is a field trip, who is going to chaperone and make sure there isn't any making out going on in the back of the bus?



Z- I think you just volunteered.


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## nyorchids (Jul 1, 2006)

wow i want to go i can see frogs while you wierdos look at orchids!


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## couscous74 (Jul 1, 2006)

nyorchids said:


> wow i want to go i can see frogs while you wierdos look at orchids!



:rollhappy: 

Maybe next field trip, we can do Borneo and look at multifloral paphs :clap:


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## Heather (Jul 1, 2006)

Okay, 
I did a couple quick airfare checks and it looks as though (at least now) airfare would be somewhere between $600-$1000. Those of us on the east coast are on the lower end of that spectrum. I checked Boston, Manchester ($400 more than Boston!), Cincinatti, Phoenix, San Francisco, and NYC just to get an idea. 

Regarding other info, I'm sure Kyle can help out with ideas and planning (where to go, stay, etc.) I can also talk to Jean Stephanic about logistics. (She's an NHOS member who was down there last spring when Kyle was there. She gave a talk on it a few months back. Of course, I don't think I took notes or anything.) 

There may be some info on Parkside's website also, and Ecuagenera maybe?


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## bwester (Jul 1, 2006)

I'll start saving


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## Heather (Jul 1, 2006)

bwester said:


> I'll start saving



Most of the flights (on Delta, which is the cheapest) of course connect in Atlanta.


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## Kyle (Jul 1, 2006)

Hi,
I think a group trip would be fantastic. 

First for flights, I cannot say enough good things about continental. Definatly pay extra to fly with them. They have a direct flight from Newark to Guayaquil. The airline is friendly and I never had any problems with them.

Now Delta on the other hand, I can't express enough my disatisfaction with Delta Airlines. Its no wonder that they are going bankrupt. They have no direct flight to Ecuador. When I came back from Ecuador, I had to go Guayquil - Bogata - Atlanta - cleavland - Toronto. It sucked. And I can't say enough bad things about their hub in Atlanta. The dirtiest airport I have ever been to filled with the rudest employees I ever delt with. Plus if you are planning on bringing plants back, the peopel in Atlanta were obnoxious about examining the plants dispite me continuing to tell them they wern't for the US. I give the company 12 months befroe they are out of business.

Sorry for the rant. But if your on the east coast and you want to go to Ecuador, fly continental.

I'm a big fan of the Orchid tours that Ecuagenera puts on. I would recommed them. It possible to do your own thing, but Ecuagenera takes a lot of the guess work out of it, plus they know where to go. I saw way more orchids with them then when I did my own exploring.

Kyle


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## Heather (Jul 1, 2006)

Okay, FYI, I was checking to Quito, not Guayaquil. The latter looks to be comparable and cheapest (right now) is actually the Continental flight (that's from Boston -> Newark -> Guayaquil.


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## PHRAG (Jul 1, 2006)

Are we all going to meet up at one airport and fly out together? I don't know where I will be living in January, but it might be easier and cheaper for me to buy the same ticket as some of you, and then take a plane, drive or catch a bus to the airport of departure. This is probably a logistical mess for me only, but I was just wondering if the rest of you were thinking about taking the same flights.

Zach. If you are really interested in going, I can find a way to get your ticket. You would be responsible for food and lodging, which if what I am hearing is correct, could be next to nothing. P.M. me and let's talk.

How long do you all think we should plan the trip for? 5 days? 

Heather, have you tried the "tricks" of cheap airline tickets. Changing departure days, picking redeye flights? Supposedly, you can fly to Ecuador from Miami pretty cheap, and fly from most cities in the U.S. to Miami pretty cheap. And the cost of these two tickets might be cheaper than one ticket for a direct flight to Ecuador. We just might have to leave ourselves plenty of time in between flights so we don't miss one.

Just ideas.


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## lienluu (Jul 1, 2006)

A friend of mine gives tours of Ecuador and Peru. He also arranges all the paperwork so that you can bring back all the plants you find (within reason) and of course, some species excluded.


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## Heather (Jul 1, 2006)

PHRAG said:


> How long do you all think we should plan the trip for? 5 days?



I don't know, that sounds short to me though, I was thinking at least a week, but maybe we should check into the Ecuagenera idea also...? 



PHRAG said:


> Heather, have you tried the "tricks" of cheap airline tickets. Changing departure days, picking redeye flights? Supposedly, you can fly to Ecuador from Miami pretty cheap, and fly from most cities in the U.S. to Miami pretty cheap. And the cost of these two tickets might be cheaper than one ticket for a direct flight to Ecuador. We just might have to leave ourselves plenty of time in between flights so we don't miss one.
> 
> Just ideas.



Not yet, I was just trying to get a ballpark estimate to give us an idea of what airfare could range. We probably need some ballpark idea of dates to shoot for also, I just randomly picked the 5th-12th ish.


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## bwester (Jul 1, 2006)

Well, I dont think my wife will let me go  Maybe someone could smuggle me back some plants though


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## Heather (Jul 1, 2006)

bwester said:


> Well, I dont think my wife will let me go  Maybe someone could smuggle me back some plants though



Bring her along? Come one, who doesn't want to go to Ecuador?


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## lindafrog (Jul 1, 2006)

*board field trip*

ahh, climbing Machu Piccu and seeing masdevallia veitchiana has always been a dream of mine, Can I meet you at the border?
:clap:


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## Wogga (Jul 1, 2006)

Lien - that sounds like a great idea - i know ill want to bring plants back with me. its pleurothallid heaven down there, so im sure it would be a wet dream for me. id like to find some sobralias as well (i got a S. decora today - only sobralia to keiki). 

I think a 7 day trip sounds about right - probably help with the round trip price too, wouldnt it?


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## nyorchids (Jul 1, 2006)

on a real note guys count me in! my wife has given me the ok:drool: when we figure out more definate plans let me know about a total price. i live in rochester ny so anyone close we can carpool to a closer airport!


heather will you go on a frog tour with me


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## Heather (Jul 1, 2006)

Wow, great! I hope we can really seriously get this together. I think it would be a BLAST!!


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## Wogga (Jul 1, 2006)

Preliminary count - whos in so far?

I make 1.


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## nyorchids (Jul 1, 2006)

me make 2


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## PHRAG (Jul 1, 2006)

3- I am going

Maybe Kyle can pipe in here and tell us what week might be good to fly down. Then we can set a date and start really confirming everything.


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## bench72 (Jul 2, 2006)

no fair! :sob:

I just checked the cost from Sydney to Guayaquil -------- $4899!!!!

looks like I'll be waving the von voyage flag!

however, the NEXT trip - destination Borneo (fingers crossed) should be easier to manage!


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## adiaphane (Jul 2, 2006)

Screw it!!! For the next trip, everyone save money, and we'll do a Southeast Asian paph tour for a month or two. :evil:


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## Heather (Jul 2, 2006)

Southeast Asia definitely sounds like fun also, Tien. 

I cannot commit yet, but I'm seriously interested in going if people really get this together. I have to say though, I'd have a hard time going down there and not spending some time in Peru as well, but maybe I could go off on my own after the Ecuadoran adventure. I really want to see Macchu Picchu someday....


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## nyorchids (Jul 2, 2006)

after checking cheap tickets the cheapest i found was 750$ from my local airport in rochester. that is a fair price! anyone have any other sites for cheap tickets?


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## likespaphs (Jul 2, 2006)

adiaphane said:


> Screw it!!! For the next trip, everyone save money, and we'll do a Southeast Asian paph tour for a month or two.:



i'm with you, but with a little alteration. i think it should be for a year or two.
i'll start playing the lottery today. i should win by wednesday, right? if so, the trip's on me...


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## Kyle (Jul 2, 2006)

PHRAG said:


> 3- I am going
> 
> Maybe Kyle can pipe in here and tell us what week might be good to fly down. Then we can set a date and start really confirming everything.



I'm in, unless I get a real job between then and now.

I think what needs to be done is every one needs to decide what they want from the trip (what species they want to see, tourist destinations, orchid nurseries. frogs etc.) and then we decide what course of action to take, probably most importantly, where to fly into. I always flew into Guayaquil because its closer to Ecuagenera. But Quito might be a better place to start a tour. 

I recommend we use a tour guide, I have gone looking on my own and seen only a fraction of the plants that I saw when I would go on a Ecuagenera tour to the exact same place.

7 Days is good, but the longer you stay, the more you can see. 

And if people want to pick out plants at Ecuagenera, that alone takes a day. Ecuagenera can then mail the plants to you from the next show they do in the US.

So what does everyone want to see?

Kyle


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## Rob Zuiderwijk (Jul 3, 2006)

Wish I could join in. No such luck however.

Have a great time and bring me back some photos...

RZu.


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## nyorchids (Jul 4, 2006)

what dates are we looking at?? are we going to get the ball rolling??


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## PHRAG (Jul 4, 2006)

Kyle was asking what everyone wants to do. I am not into camping out, so some sort of civilization is a requirement for me. I do not really have specific species in mind that I want to see on a tour, besides maybe besseae. I have no interest in frogs or other wildlife. I think it is just going to take some planning to let everyone see what they want to do.

We don't all have to do the exact same things once we get there. Maybe we could plan an orchid tour for the group, and then we could split up and do our own thing before we meet back up and visit Ecuagenera or some other tour.


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## nyorchids (Jul 4, 2006)

i am game for anything i know i will see frogs along the way on an orchid tour good enough for me!


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## Kyle (Jul 4, 2006)

You don't have to worry about camping, hotels are cheap enough that it makes camping kinda silly. However, the hotels are pretty basic, some might not have hot water, but after a day in the blazing sun, a cold shower sometimes feels jsut fine.

Besseae is easy to see, its blooms year round and is right near the road.

I saw a couple of frogs, but I have no idea where the majority hang out. None were all the colorful. If you wnat I could post a picture. I would assume the amazon, not the cold at night mountains. I saw tadpoles on the way to kovachii...

Ecuagenera has two nurserys, the big one up in the mountains near Cuenca and another one in the amazone for the really warm loving things. Besseae is on the way from one nursury to the other. 

But there are quite a few interesting Orchid and tourist spots further north near Quito. There are more orchids per mile from Quito to Mindo then anywhere else in the country. Mindo is the birding capital of Ecuador. I saw a pair of toucans. There is also Otovalo, a huge market town. But that is far from Besseae. 

My advice is to fly into Quito, go up to Otovalo for a day or so. There is whitewater rafting near Mindo is you like. Then go over to Otovalo. Down to Banos where you can see phrag lindinii, among other things. Theres hot springs in Banos. Drive to Ecuagenera the next day, and look around. Then to pangui, where the other nursery is. Get to see besseae, then return to ecuagnerea via a different route, see another population of besseae. Another night at Ecuagenera. Then to Cuenca, fly to Quito then fly home.

Thats just a possible route. Time wise it should take a week. The drive from Banos to the south is long and there arn't many orchids to see along the way. There is a inca ruin to stop at.

I know I said flying to Guayquil was better, but I wasn't really thinking of it from an orchid tour perspective. You could fly into guayaquil then fly to quito. Its pretty cheap.

Is there any thing people want to do or see, other then frogs or besseae?

Kyle


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## PHRAG (Jul 4, 2006)

Kyle, that sounds AWESOME! I am not huge on shopping, so if we didn't hit a marketplace I wouldn't be dissapointed. I am in this thing to see some plants, and take some photos. I can do all the shopping I need to do at Ecuagenera. The ruins sound like a good opportunity as well. Other than that I am just looking for some good food and cold beer and I will be set. As for everyone else, what are you hoping for?

Kyle, did you have other plans while you were down there? We kind of just lumped ourselves in with you, and I want to make sure you don't feel like you have to play tour guide to us.

This will be my first trip down there, so I think I need someone to tell me what I want to see, and Kyle's sample itenerary sounds perfect.


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## Wogga (Jul 4, 2006)

I'm definitely interested in checking out the frogs. And, believe it or not, my main reason (orchidwise) is to see the wild pleurothallids and see if i can conjure up any new culture ideas, although i would be VERY interested to see phrag lindenii ensitu!!

I would like to get a nice feel for the wild fauna as well, birds, insects, spiders, primates (if they have any?). The ruins sound like a good itme too.

Im kind of an allround sightseer - i hope this can be coincided with others' desires - the idea of doing one big group trip then split off and meet back up sounds pretty good.


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## adiaphane (Jul 5, 2006)

Oh, this sounds so great. Can someone snuggle me in their suitcase and snuggle me back to the US? I'm fairly short and don't take up much space (about 5'3"). Please? Pretty please?


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## nyorchids (Jul 5, 2006)

Wogga said:


> I'm definitely interested in checking out the frogs. And, believe it or not, my main reason (orchidwise) is to see the wild pleurothallids and see if i can conjure up any new culture ideas, although i would be VERY interested to see phrag lindenii ensitu!!
> 
> I would like to get a nice feel for the wild fauna as well, birds, insects, spiders, primates (if they have any?). The ruins sound like a good itme too.
> 
> Im kind of an allround sightseer - i hope this can be coincided with others' desires - the idea of doing one big group trip then split off and meet back up sounds pretty good.


ya another frog person!!! i will post some pics of frogs that are in that region later today


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## Heather (Jul 5, 2006)

I am hesitant to post because I am not sure I can go, but, if I were to go, I would be most interested in:

Orchids
Inca Ruins
Nature in general
Interesting food
Ecuagenera 
The Ecuagenera school...

If we were to go, I think coming up with a group organized donation to the school would really be an excellent thing... Here is a link about it....
http://parksideorchids.com/liceo nuevo mundo.htm

I know for sure they are interested in children's books for their library. There aren't really a lot of libraries in Ecuador. From what I understood from Jean, this was a foreign concept to the school - starting a library. They had some books but didn't know how to handle it so had them stored away out of use. Now, after she went in and helped them organize the place, they are finding that they have to arrange specific time for each class to visit the library because the kids enjoy it so much. Maybe everyone could bring a favorite kids book or something? I don't know....it was one part of Jean's talk about Ecuador that really left me with a warm, fuzzy feeling, and I would like to see our forum help out if possible. Whether we go or not, kind of a neat thing...

I think there is also an orchid "park" fairly close to Ecuagenera (Kyle?) where they have collected wild plants and established them on the property? I will try to corrall Jean on Saturday if she is around. 

John....where are those business cards? Are we go soon, or should I use what I made for the interim?


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## Kyle (Jul 5, 2006)

The last time I got an email from Jean was a month or more ago. I think she still has a bunch of books to send to Ecuagenera. I agree collecting a handful of books would really be appreciated. Jean did a fantastic job on the library. Ecuadorians just didn't get the concept of borrowing the books. they don't have a lot of respect for property. Cultural I guess. The books weren't aloud to leave the library. Maybe in the future, but they wern't ready for the responsibility yet.

Jean was probably talking about the el puhuma orchid reserve that she worked at a couple of years back. Its a neat place with a few trails and lots of waterfalls. My only complent is that they used bright orange thread to fasten the plants to the trees, instead of fishing line. Its not very close to Ecuagenera, its up north between Quito and Mindo. The have a website, google it.

Ecuagenera has their reserves where they plant some of the seedlings they have artifically propagated. They have 3 reserves. Somehow, I went all winter without ever going to the reserves. They are close ecuagenera on the way to the other greenhouse.

Kyle


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## Heather (Jul 5, 2006)

Thanks Kyle! 

May I mention - every time I see your avatar, it reminds me of how someone would caress a pet! LOL! It is like a giant spaniel's head. Scratch a bit under the chin...hehe! :rollhappy:


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## Mahon (Jul 13, 2006)

...don't forget how dangerous it is right now (and kinda has been) in Ecuador... Cal Dodson has a home in Manabi, and he loves it there... almost any where else, you are either facing unfriendlies, disease and infections, cholera, or land mines, scattered among the borders of Ecuador and Peru... if interested in Ecuador, I would say ask Pepe or Magali at Ecuagenera, because they have the most tourist experience...

I will post a new thread about an alternative place, much safer, and more organized country... most likely no one would be interested, seeing all the persistence in an EC trip...

-Pat


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## Kyle (Jul 13, 2006)

Mahon said:


> ...don't forget how dangerous it is right now (and kinda has been) in Ecuador



I must have forgoten. Please remind me. Seriously.

I remember the country being very safe and the locals be exceptionally friendly and curious. I never once felt my personal safety being compromised wither on my one in a group, day or night.




Mahon said:


> if interested in Ecuador, I would say ask Pepe or Magali at Ecuagenera, because they have the most tourist experience
> -Pat



I agree, they (or any other knowledgable guide) are essential to insuring the trip goes smoothly. Not all orchids are on the side of the road or on public land. Ecuagenera knows where the plants are and has permission to be on peoples land.

Kyle


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## Heather (Jul 13, 2006)

Kyle said:


> I must have forgoten. Please remind me. Seriously.
> 
> I remember the country being very safe and the locals be exceptionally friendly and curious. I never once felt my personal safety being compromised wither on my one in a group, day or night.



Yeah, we actually know several people who have gone on just this trip, to just this place, several times over the last couple years. I've never heard one word from them about experiencing any trouble. Glen did say that in Peru, traveling with a group was a good idea but that's sort of the whole point of this anyway....

Pat - have you been to the region?


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## PHRAG (Jul 13, 2006)

Pat, my bull**** meter is going off the scale.


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## Heather (Jul 13, 2006)

PHRAG said:


> Pat, my bull**** meter is going off the scale.



ROTFL!


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## kentuckiense (Jul 13, 2006)

For what it's worth, my brother's girlfriend spent an entire semester in Ecuador without a single problem. In addition, this is a slipper board. I'd want to see slippers.

Edit: Mahon, my above post probably sounds a bit rude. I didn't intend that. I'm just saying that a core part of the trip would be viewing Phragmipedium in-situ. Your proposed trip sounds great and it is certainly something that I would want to do someday, but I think the forum members demand slippers.


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## Heather (Jul 13, 2006)

I'm sorry Pat. I didn't mean to laugh, I know you were just being concerned and had our best interest at heart. But you know, we're grown ups and I think we can plan a group trip to a South American country (or any country) in a safe and constructive manner.


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## adiaphane (Jul 13, 2006)

It is dangerous anywhere you go. Don't forget, M, it's hurricane season... but oh wait, you'll probably be okay, because you're a white guy. Seriously, I would worry about staying in Florida right now more than I would worry about people going to Ecuador.


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## PHRAG (Jul 13, 2006)

Mahon said:


> ...and John, happy birthday! Your bull s**t meter is out of whack. Please re-check it and make sure it isn't pointing at the owner of the meter...


 
Pat, let me teach you something since you seem to be educated, but lack a lot of common sense.

There are people on this forum who can discredit false information. Just a cautionary word of advice, when you name drop or speak in detail about scientific concerns, don't make anything up. I can promise you embarassment will follow.

When you contend that one country is dangerous that you have never been to, while spouting about a "safer" location you spent all of two hours in, it makes you look like an a$$hole.

I think you can figure this out, but let's just lay the cards on the table so there is no question about it. I don't like you. Don't rattle my cage.


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## kentuckiense (Jul 13, 2006)

Mahon said:


> ...and no, I am not worried about Hurricanes being in FL... a well built house will sustain the hurricane winds... it should've been mandatory before to build with concrete... roofs are a different story... poor designing on contractors part...
> 
> -PM


It's not always the wind that you have to worry about. Think tidal surges and floods.


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## adiaphane (Jul 13, 2006)

Listen here, Mahon, you have no idea what you're talking about. First off, no one calls it Rhodesia anymore--it's offensive, and if you knew the history you would know why.

Secondly, if you knew anything about other countries, you wouldn't make such blanketed and ignorant statements.

And the next time you feel like making opinionated statements, BACK it up with more than just general statements. Yes, there are murders going on all over the world, but what are you saying that we don't already know?

You need to take your own advice, and "listen to what people tell you, sometimes they are right, sometimes they are full of 'excrement' (couldn't think of any other term, lol), but just listen, open up your ears, it will help you either learn something."


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## Heather (Jul 13, 2006)

Carpe Diem! 

I am sorry but I'm not just going to bury my head in the sand and not see the world based on the fact that there are issues in EVERY country in the world. 
Yes, of course, do your research, but LIVE LIFE!


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## adiaphane (Jul 13, 2006)

Mahon, everything you said proved my point. That is all. Thank you.


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## adiaphane (Jul 13, 2006)

Mahon, in vietnamese, no diacriticial marks: dong ma may.

May mat vit, do ngu, di an cut di.


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## Mahon (Jul 13, 2006)

..ok


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## adiaphane (Jul 15, 2006)

Ok, I don't want people to think that anyone is ganging up on anyone here. Many of the posts in this thread have been deleted. I stand by what I said, and I mean no harm and have no malicious intent. Just please keep in mind that some of this is out of context.


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## Wogga (Jul 15, 2006)

we're all adults. nothing to get too worked up about. i won't tell anyone what to do, nor make any pretense of condescension, i just know what works for me - if it bugs you, take it with a grain of salt. its not worth raising your blood pressure over. 

tempers may be flared, and offensive remarks taken - i dont dispute or belittle the validity of those feelings. im just saying it might help if we dont let those things get us too riled up.

and besides, im stoked to see lindenii, to steer it back to orchids.


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## adiaphane (Jul 15, 2006)

Oh yes, I would love to see phrags and take some in situ photos... that would be freaking fantastic!

And if I can't go, someone please post them....


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## Wogga (Jul 15, 2006)

Any pleuro guys out there heard of Lou Jost and his Teagueia discoveries?


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## Mahon (Jul 15, 2006)

Colin,

I have been informed on exact locations of Teagueia, Lepanthes, and Brachionidium found in the same exact locality... I got to mount some of Jost's herbarium specimens for MBG, so I got to see the size on these taxa being found.

-P.A. Mahon


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## Marco (Jul 16, 2006)

Hey can we all give each other a hug  {{HUG}}


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## Ron-NY (Aug 21, 2006)

Looks like an interesting trip. I am headed to the Moyobamba region of Peru in October. I am going with the ultimate goal of seeing kovachii in situ. I have been researching the other orchids of Peru and checking to see what will be in bloom when I will be there. Here is a link to Peruvian species. Clicking on the picture thumbnails will give you further info on the species.
http://www.peruorchids.com/en/galeria/galeria.htm

I found a round trip ticket from my local Airport, in Albany, NY, for $679 round trip to Lima and it has been purchased. I am flying with Continental Airlines.

I am still trying to convince my wife that I am not putting myself into a dangerous situation.


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## Heather (Aug 22, 2006)

Ron, 
I'm so jealous! 
October is not very far off either. Please keep us posted and take LOTS of photos. How long will you guys be there?


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## Ron-NY (Aug 22, 2006)

I arrive back home on November 4th but leave there on the 3rd..red-eye flight . It will take me 13 hours down so two days are travel days. I have sceduled a booster on my Hep A and a couple of shots for next week.


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