# KLN and superthrive



## papheteer (May 26, 2015)

Does anyone use these supplements? I have some small plants that aren't doing anything and I wanna try to help them out a bit! I'd like to hear your experiences!


----------



## abax (May 26, 2015)

I'm not familiar with KLN, but I stay away from Superthrive. Even with minimal usage, I've seen some
rather ugly malformations due presumably from its use.


----------



## Marco (May 26, 2015)

I use KLN when i repot only. maybe on a whim to add to fertilizer water (2-3 drops a gallon) once in a blue moon.

Honestly, i can't say whether it helps or not. but from my experience a couple of years ago and when i repot now it doesn't seem like KLN hurts the plants. When i repot i use maybe a half a teaspoon of kln per gallon. Regarding super thrive, I did hear about the flower deformities Angela mentions of. I do avoid using fertilizer water with kln or any other additive on fertilizer water when watering in spike/in flower plants. I just use plain ol' grow more 20-20-20.


----------



## papheteer (May 27, 2015)

Thanks, Angela and Marco. I intend to try them on those small plants. Seaweed doesn't do it for them.


----------



## Ozpaph (May 27, 2015)

I tried Superthrive - no idea if it helped.


----------



## Stone (May 27, 2015)

papheteer said:


> Thanks, Angela and Marco. I intend to try them on those small plants. Seaweed doesn't do it for them.



I find with using the seaweed, it takes about 3 weeks before you notice new roots.
Also I think using any of these more than once a month can be a problem.


----------



## Ray (May 27, 2015)

Both K-L-N and SuperThrive contain synthetic rooting hormones. Those synthetic compounds are extremely unstable, decomposing rapidly when exposed to heat and/or light. Dave Neal, owner of Dyna-Gro, once told me that a fresh batch of K-L-N, if kept refrigerated, will be viable for about a year. At room temperature, but kept dark, maybe 6 months. Warmer, or in sunlight, and you're looking at a few weeks. 

Considering that we don't know about the conditions in the trucks and warehouses during distribution, or how long it's been on the store shelf, I think this is the reason there are so many conflicting stories of their efficacy.

Papheteer's lack of results from kelp products might fall in a similar vein, with more variables affecting the stimulating effects, with the species used, and how it was prepared being the "big two".

All kelps contain stimulating chemicals, but while some are more chemically plentiful than others, if you take a great starting product, and process it poorly, the effects will be clobbered. Some are mechanically crushed, some are cooked out, some are "chemically digested", all of which degrade the chemistry. Drying as product to make a powdered form also degrades the chemistry. 

KelpMax (Kelpak) is cooled and placed in a vacuum so the cells burst, releasing the juices. They then have a tiny amount of natural preservatives added to stabilize them. Recent studies in product made over 4 years ago showed the presence of concentrated chemicals thought to be very unstable and expected to no longer be present - auxins, cytokinins and polyamines, abscisic acid, and concentrated gibberellins and brassinosteroids.

Mike is right about the "delayed reaction", and recommendation about frequency of use. The auxin/cytokinin cycle is a natural part of plant growth. Auxins cause the initiation and growth of root tips. As they grow, they naturally release cytokinins that move up in the plant and stimulate plant shoot growth. As the shoot tips grow, they release auxins that travel down and stimulate root tip growth.... If we "spike" the auxins, the plant starts to react immediately, but it takes some time for the reaction to build from its "baseline" rate to the accelerated one, and then drop back to normal. The cytokinin production also takes time to begin, and peak, so the whole process can take anywhere from two- to three weeks. Adding more stimulation of the process within that can disrupt things, giving odd growth.


----------



## rbedard (May 27, 2015)

In my experience, these products do work well in moderation on Sarcanthanae, but seem much less effective on Paphs. I don't apply them to plants in spike or flower; only to encourage new root growth on recently repotted or ailing plants.


----------



## Ray (May 27, 2015)

rbedard said:


> In my experience, these products do work well in moderation on Sarcanthanae, but seem much less effective on Paphs. I don't apply them to plants in spike or flower; only to encourage new root growth on recently repotted or ailing plants.



It may be that the KelpMax contains more than just auxins, but I find that my paphs are forming many more leads than they have ever done in the past.

One- or two new leads per plant per growing season was my old norm, and now it's 4-, 5- or more.


----------



## papheteer (May 27, 2015)

Ray, I think that's the reason why I am not seeing these results. I use the kelpmax and other kelp products at 1/2 TSP per gallon of water. At what rate do you recommend I use it?


----------



## Ray (May 27, 2015)

papheteer said:


> Ray, I think that's the reason why I am not seeing these results. I use the kelpmax and other kelp products at 1/2 TSP per gallon of water. At what rate do you recommend I use it?



According to the producer, you'll see no reaction at a concentration under 1:500. Your 1/2 tsp/gallon is 1:1536.

Personally, I use and recommend one tablespoon per gallon (1:256), added to water or fertilizer once every 4- to 6 weeks.


----------



## rbedard (May 27, 2015)

Sorry, for sake of clarification, I was referring to Superthrive and KLN, not kelp products. I do use seaweed based fertilizer on my collection, FWIW.




Ray said:


> It may be that the KelpMax contains more than just auxins, but I find that my paphs are forming many more leads than they have ever done in the past.
> 
> One- or two new leads per plant per growing season was my old norm, and now it's 4-, 5- or more.


----------

