# Paph sanderianum culture



## gonewild (Oct 1, 2010)

What is the ideal media type/conditions for Paph sanderianum?
Does it like a lot of limestone?

I have a bunch of seedlings that have been growing in leca and I want to repot into a more typical type media.


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## Paphman910 (Oct 1, 2010)

They like limestone. I have grown them in coconut husk, sphagnum moss, perlite with dolomite lime as well as crusted coral in the medium.

Keep to good growth is clean low salt water!

Paphman910


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## gonewild (Oct 1, 2010)

Thanks.
I was planning to use a mix of Coir, Leca, Oyster shell, Carbon and Pumice.
Sounds like it should work well.


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## Paphman910 (Oct 1, 2010)

Make sure your coconut husk is rinsed until the water becomes clear to remove the tanins and salts. Also give them warm temperature minimun of 70 F at night and 50% or higher humidity. They like light level slightly higher than Phalaneopsis.

Paphman910


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## likespaphs (Oct 1, 2010)

Paphman910 said:


> Make sure your coconut husk is rinsed until the water becomes clear to remove the tanins and salts....



i had heard use 1 (tsp or tbsp, can't remember) of epsom salts and 1 tsp of calcium nitrate(?)
draws out salts that aren't water soluble
then clear water rinse, i think
sorry can't be more helpful...


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## ehanes7612 (Oct 2, 2010)

they definitely like warmer nights and low light compared to other multiflorals...not sold on the limestone ...after growing them without it for two years i heard they needed it and i added...its been six months ...no change..my water is soft so its not that they were already getting it...perhaps they were getting enough from the fertilizer


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## Paul (Oct 2, 2010)

I find they really like living moss (not sphagnum!!! too acidic for them!!) in the compot. I use 50/50 pumice/medium bark + moss (from the garden) in the mix, medium to low light, as warm and humid as possible. NEVER let it dry completly, water copiously or the roots can die. I try to keep the pH of the water about 7.


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## gonewild (Oct 2, 2010)

For the CHC, I'm not using chunks. I am using Coir which is ground up like peat moss. It probably is already washed before grinding, I don't know. In any case I have been using it straight from the bag and root growth is very good so it must not have a salt excess.


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## Paphman910 (Oct 2, 2010)

gonewild said:


> For the CHC, I'm not using chunks. I am using Coir which is ground up like peat moss. It probably is already washed before grinding, I don't know. In any case I have been using it straight from the bag and root growth is very good so it must not have a salt excess.



I wasn't sure if the seller from the hydroponic shop was telling me the truth about coir not having any salts. But from what you said it sounds like they are right. 

I have the chunky stuff from the hardware store that will need to be treated. You would have to treat it with epsom salt and calcium nitrate in the final wash.

Paphman910


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## Paphman910 (Oct 2, 2010)

ehanes7612 said:


> they definitely like warmer nights and low light compared to other multiflorals...not sold on the limestone ...after growing them without it for two years i heard they needed it and i added...its been six months ...no change..my water is soft so its not that they were already getting it...perhaps they were getting enough from the fertilizer



My potting mix have sphagnum so the limestone or dolomite lime should reduce the acidity of the medium.

Paphman910


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## gonewild (Oct 3, 2010)

Paphman910 said:


> I wasn't sure if the seller from the hydroponic shop was telling me the truth about coir not having any salts. But from what you said it sounds like they are right.
> Paphman910



It has not made sense that the companies that prepare and bag the coir would leave excess salts in the product. Neither does it make a lot of sense that Hydroton would need to be washed to leach it out.
So......
I decided to find out. I made my last mix without rinsing any of the ingrediants.
Hydroton and Coir from the Hydoponic store. Oyster shell from the feed store. Pumice from the hardware store garden center. Charcoal direct from the Peruvian rainforest. I used all the ingredients straight from the bag without rinsing.

Here is a picture of Phrag kovachii roots one month after repotting.


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## Paphman910 (Oct 4, 2010)

gonewild said:


> It has not made sense that the companies that prepare and bag the coir would leave excess salts in the product. Neither does it make a lot of sense that Hydroton would need to be washed to leach it out.
> So......
> I decided to find out. I made my last mix without rinsing any of the ingrediants.
> Hydroton and Coir from the Hydoponic store. Oyster shell from the feed store. Pumice from the hardware store garden center. Charcoal direct from the Peruvian rainforest. I used all the ingredients straight from the bag without rinsing.
> ...




Wow! That is a very healthy root system! Great growing! 

Paphman910


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## SlipperKing (Oct 4, 2010)

Nice looking roots Lance. Do you slip the potted plant above into a solid colored pot to avoid agae growth on the side walls of the clear pot?


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## ehanes7612 (Oct 4, 2010)

Paul said:


> I find they really like living moss (not sphagnum!!! too acidic for them!!) in the compot. I use 50/50 pumice/medium bark + moss (from the garden) in the mix, medium to low light, as warm and humid as possible. NEVER let it dry completly, water copiously or the roots can die. I try to keep the pH of the water about 7.



I agree and i think every paph loves living moss...as the moss builds up the new roots that come out of the upper end of the root system have cover and can continue growing...but if you use dolomite (limestone).be careful not to place it on top of moss, it kills it (not sure why)


i had a sangii whose mix was too wet (before i realized the drainage was bad) but had established its living roots in the halfinch thick matt of living moss...


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## gonewild (Oct 4, 2010)

SlipperKing said:


> Nice looking roots Lance. Do you slip the potted plant above into a solid colored pot to avoid agae growth on the side walls of the clear pot?



No.
I don't see any reason that the algae does any harm. It may even add a benefit to the root environment?


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## SlipperKing (Oct 4, 2010)

I have always believed the same about the algae. Growing in air cones since the late 80's I've had lots of algae but I've never really been able to get the moss growing on the top of the pots. Using rain water always, could it be the fertilizer is too strong? Plants I buy with moss started on top quicky dies after a week or two.


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## gonewild (Oct 4, 2010)

SlipperKing said:


> I have always believed the same about the algae. Growing in air cones since the late 80's I've had lots of algae but I've never really been able to get the moss growing on the top of the pots. Using rain water always, could it be the fertilizer is too strong? Plants I buy with moss started on top quicky dies after a week or two.



Probably the moss gets to dry. 

I have misters (fog nozzles) that cycle all day long. Basically just enough to keep the surface with visible moisture. The mist stops in time to dry off before dark. I also will let the mist stay on for longer durations and shorter intervals when the weather is hot. 

My mist water is RO. I don't see any ill effects from full strength fertilizer on the moss but when a mister gets plugged the moss that is in that area that does not get it's misting will start to turn brown and then when the mist returns so does the moss.


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## ehanes7612 (Oct 5, 2010)

moss needs to be wet most of the time (high humidity or misting a must)...the only real requirement as they dont need much light and dont need fertilizer


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## TyroneGenade (Oct 5, 2010)

Paphman910 said:


> ...Also give them warm temperature minimun of 70 F at night and 50% or higher humidity. They like light level slightly higher than Phalaneopsis.



I grew my seedling outside where temps dipped to as low as 4 deg C at night. It didn't mind at all, surviving this for several years (to eventually be killed by by my doting parents overwatering it in winter while I was away).

The lower light level bit is interesting. Think I'm going to have to move my new sanderianum someplace more shady.

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

Regarding getting moss to grow on top: this is more a matter of humidity that watering. If you keep the humidity up around the post then the moss will grow well.


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## Justin (Oct 5, 2010)

everyone's conditions are different, but i personally have never had succes with coir for paphs (I tried the aussie gold paph and phrag mix). 

I only have a few sanderianum, but mine grow fine in standard bark/perlite/charcoal mix. I don't think they require much special treatment, but they do need good quality water. I use R/O and also feed them often.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Oct 5, 2010)

I never had luck with coir either. The plants would plump up, but growth would be minimal and there would be 0 root growth. I do find a coir/perlite mix to be excellent on Cymbidiums and Ludisia's.


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## SlipperKing (Oct 6, 2010)

Thanks for the tips on the moss guys.


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## Rick (Oct 7, 2010)

I've been growing sanderianums in a variety of mixes since about 2002 (although some were only seedlings I've had for a couple of years now).

They don't seem to care too much what they are in, but the biggest factor to improving growth for mine is high air humidity, and lower light than most of my other multis. I've got them shaded by the kolos, philis, stonei, and roths, and they are nearest the wet pads with lots of breeze. Only my supardii are comparable to their light and temp requirements. 

I'm generally much cooler than Paphman getting down to night lows in the low 60s and high 50s in the winter.

My epson salt spiking gave a good boost to the larger plants in terms of growth rate and leaf color. I think it made a difference to have more resistance against rot too.

The most common mix I have them in is CHC (chunk) with charcoal, and sponge rock. The mixes generally have a dash of oyster shell too. Some also have a dash of leca.


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