# Cypripediums de Guatemala



## SlipperKing (Nov 16, 2010)

Anyone have info on this guy?


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## Kavanaru (Nov 16, 2010)

looks more like Selenipedium to me... Selenipedium chica is the only one I know that grows in Central America, but not sure if as far north as Guatemala... I have never seen a flower os this species, so cannot say whether it is yellow or not...


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## valenzino (Nov 16, 2010)

Cypripedium irapeanum.
One of my favourite but impossible to grow(seems for eveyone).
One of the few subtropical/hot grower Cyps.(irapeanum,molle and a 3rd that i can remember from central america and subtropicum from asia)
Many peoples have tryed to grow this beauty with no success(also the most experienced Cyps growers) and unfortunately,I heard that also artificially propagated plants are also impossible to grow.
Someone knows about a successfull irapeanum growing story?


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## SlipperKing (Nov 16, 2010)

Is this Cyp dickisonianum?


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## NYEric (Nov 16, 2010)

idk!


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## smartie2000 (Nov 16, 2010)

It's unfortunate no one can grow it because it is a beauty.

Anychance this can be hybridized into a Phrag to produce deep yellow phrags?!


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## NYEric (Nov 16, 2010)

I have never heard of a cyp/selenipediium - phrag hybrid!


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## SlipperKing (Nov 16, 2010)

Hear are a few more shots of Rodolfo Rene Hernandez Reyes's Photos 














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## Berthold (Nov 16, 2010)

It is Cyp. irapeanum.
Problem in cultivation is that this species has no self protection mechanisms against infections. So You need a special fungus in the root system to protect it against other fungi and microorganisms.
Without this special fungus the plant starts rotting in a pot immediately. Same problems You have with Selenipedium aequinoctiale.


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## Shiva (Nov 16, 2010)

Nice large flower. Does it have any scent?


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## SlipperFan (Nov 16, 2010)

Gorgeous yellow.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Nov 16, 2010)

How does it hybridize? Maybe if crossed with pubescens or calceolus a similar looking, but hardier, plant could be developed.


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## McKatelyn (Nov 16, 2010)

That's just what I was thinking or maybe an all yellow var of kentickiense to produce a huge flower hybrid. Does this tropical Cyp flower in may (or even spring)? If not, How long can the pollen be stored?


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## Kevin (Nov 17, 2010)

Very nice! Very rare to see a pic of this one. Would be cool if it could be hybridized.


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## biothanasis (Nov 17, 2010)

Berthold said:


> It is Cyp. irapeanum.
> Problem in cultivation is that this species has no self protection mechanisms against infections. So You need a special fungus in the root system to protect it against other fungi and microorganisms.
> Without this special fungus the plant starts rotting in a pot immediately...



Do you mean use of substrate like Neudohum??? I recenlty read about this material....!! 

Great pictures btw!! What is the smaller one??


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## Berthold (Nov 17, 2010)

biothanasis said:


> Do you mean use of substrate like Neudohum??? I recenlty read about this material....!!



I could not hold a Cyp ira in my hand yet but I did some test on Seleni aequi without success.

20% Neudohum beside Seramis is a good substrate component but thats not all. You have to disinfect the root system of the plant as perfectly as possible. I missed in that point.


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## SlipperKing (Nov 17, 2010)

biothanasis said:


> Do you mean use of substrate like Neudohum??? I recenlty read about this material....!!
> 
> Great pictures btw!! What is the *smaller* one??



I believe it is the same...just a runt!


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## valenzino (Nov 17, 2010)

SlipperKing said:


> I believe it is the same...just a junt!



In my opinion,the big one is shurely C.irapeanum,but the small one I think is not the same species...
I think is C.dickinsonianum...rare photo(and plant)....really thanks for shareing those photos!


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## Berthold (Nov 17, 2010)

valenzino said:


> In my opinion,the big one is shurely C.irapeanum,but the small one I think is not the same species...
> I think is C.dickinsonianum...rare photo(and plant)....really thanks for shareing those photos!



I didn't notice the small plant yet but I completely agree its dickinsonianum.

First photo I see of this species. Congratulation to the photographer.


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## Kavanaru (Nov 17, 2010)

Interesting... something new to me  I did not know of Cypripedium growing in warmer areas of the Americas...

for those interested in reading a bit more http://www.cypripedium.de/forum/messages/811.html


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## s1214215 (Nov 17, 2010)

I was in contact with the person who took some of these pics. He says he tried to grow them, taking some to his garden, and he still failed even though he took soil with them. 

He was saying that parts of the habitat are being destroyed by illegal rubbish dumping. Sad as it can not be grown it seems, let alone exported legally.

Brett


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## biothanasis (Nov 18, 2010)

Thank you for the answers....


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## cyprimaniac (Nov 18, 2010)

hey, 
this August I got some pics from a buddy here in Europe,
showing a C. irapeanum plant flowering "on his windowsill".
Unfortunately he asked me to keep the pics secret 

I dont know -didnt ask-, whether the plants were "digged" or grown from seeds.

BUT I asked some informations about his plants and he told me, that he cultivates the plants in pots for many years, and he called them "shy bloomers" under his conditions. The shown plant last flowered 6 years ago.

He also told me the "recipe" of the potting mix, no spectacular (inorganic) ingredients. 

*Insofar it "seems to be not so difficult"......... if one has a plant* 

I estimate, that seedlings might be available in the next years,
if he finds a successful lab............

cheers

OK, this is one of the pics..............


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## Dido (Jan 6, 2011)

Hello, 

Sorry I was not here for a while, had not much time.

In Belgium Moors has Plants, and he is telling maybee
next year he can offer again seeds. 
Has a photo on his homepage. 
http://www.crustacare.be/Plants/HomepagePlantsEnglish.html

So if your friend searching for someone who can make seeds contact him.


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## NYEric (Jan 6, 2011)

Wow! Amazing I didn't follow this thread, good luck to whomever propogates these.


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## Amadeus (Nov 2, 2013)

*BUMP* I want updates.


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## s1214215 (Jan 31, 2014)

I am curious why it has not been possible to identify the fungi this plant is dependent on as has been done with other terrestrials


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## KyushuCalanthe (Jan 31, 2014)

Brett, it has been done. See:

The root colonizing fungi of the terrestrial orchid Cypripedium irapeanum


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## Transvaal (Feb 7, 2014)

It seems that the impossible has been achieved. For those who fancy a challenge it appears that Albiflora can offer you a seedling at 70 euros each. I look forward to hearing from some brave soul in the future who masters this....

http://www.albiflora.be/plantdetail.php?id=71

Phil


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## Berthold (Feb 7, 2014)

The real problems begin after deflasking


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## KyushuCalanthe (Feb 7, 2014)

Berthold said:


> The real problems begin after deflasking



Indeed. C. irapeanum has been successfully germinated in flask for a couple decades. BTW Berthold, any luck with your seedlings?


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## Berthold (Feb 7, 2014)

Tom, I will find out tomorrow


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## Berthold (Feb 8, 2014)

The seedlings are lost in all different substrates 2 months after deflasking


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## SlipperKing (Feb 8, 2014)

Berthold said:


> The seedlings are lost in all different substrates 2 months after deflasking



That's messed up. 
One must learn how to grow the fungus first before the plants I'm guessing.


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## Berthold (Feb 8, 2014)

SlipperKing said:


> One must learn how to grow the fungus first before the plants I'm guessing.



I agree. Maybe You have to grow both together or there is a third partner necessary even, living roots of a tree or something like that.


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## cnycharles (Feb 8, 2014)

True; a number of ny natives are connected to fungi that are connected to beeches and other trees 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## naoki (Feb 8, 2014)

According to Tom's link, fungi are from Tulasnaceae. My friend, who studies mycorrhizae of Corallorhiza, said that many mychorrhizae is difficult to culture. But according to this info, B1 (Tulasnella) germinator can be cultivated (and available from UK sources). I wonder if inoculating the deflasked C. irapeanum with B1 can help. There are some specificity between the host and fungi, but there seems to be some wiggle room, too.


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## Transvaal (Feb 8, 2014)

Sorry to hear Berthold 
Good luck with the fungi, though it seems the wild plant is difficult even when planted in substrate removed from its original growing position.


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## Berthold (Feb 8, 2014)

naoki said:


> According to Tom's link, fungi are from Tulasnaceae. My friend, who studies mycorrhizae of Corallorhiza, said that many mychorrhizae is difficult to culture. But according to this info, B1 (Tulasnella) germinator can be cultivated (and available from UK sources). I wonder if inoculating the deflasked C. irapeanum with B1 can help. There are some specificity between the host and fungi, but there seems to be some wiggle room, too.



I am doing a lot with B1 and A36 also. It's a good germinator for a lot of tuber orchis species. 
But I don't think it has the potence to protect Cypripedium against fungi and bacterial attacks


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## naoki (Feb 8, 2014)

Thanks for the info, Berthold. I found some info about B1, but I can't find info about A36 or Q414. Do you happen to know what kind of fungi they are (e.g. fungal family, which plant they are isolated from etc)? I'd like to learn about the symbiotic germination methods, but I'm not finding lots of info.

Does anyone know if there is a source of these fungi in the US? I looked at Hardy Orchid society in the UK, and they have a few kinds. But I'm assuming that they can't ship it to the US.


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## KyushuCalanthe (Feb 8, 2014)

Well, it does seem that this plant requires something nobody has been able to furnish it with yet. Soil fungi may be the key, or something as yet not understood. It would be interesting to try to grow it indefinitely in aseptic conditions, but I suppose that would become a logistical nightmare quickly.

I applaud the work you are doing with fungi Berthold, and your intense interest Naoki. The solution may indeed be in there somewhere. Perhaps it needs a cocktail of symbionts - that is what the pdf I linked to suggests.

The other option would be to try keeping it pathogen free with a continuous supply of antifungal compounds... assuming you could meet its other requirements.

Berthold, any luck with C. subtropicum?


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## Berthold (Feb 9, 2014)

Tom, another problem is to keep bacteria away beside bad fungi. The plant associated fungus or fungi cocktail produces antibiotica. That helps themselves and the plant also.

I am sure it's possible to grow this species in aseptic conditions, but the problems of that You mentioned already.

Subtropicum is doing well meanwhile in warm living room condition during winter time with low humidity which you applicate for ironing bedclothes (bügelfeucht)


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## KyushuCalanthe (Feb 9, 2014)

Berthold said:


> Tom, another problem is to keep bacteria away beside bad fungi. The plant associated fungus or fungi cocktail produces antibiotica. That helps themselves and the plant also.



OK, but couldn't you use artificial chemicals to accomplish the same thing? Don't get me wrong, I applaud your approach, I'm just wondering. 



Berthold said:


> I am sure it's possible to grow this species in aseptic conditions, but the problems of that You mentioned already.



Yes, kind of like a really sick hospital patient! Not a nice image.



Berthold said:


> Subtropicum is doing well meanwhile in warm living room condition during winter time with low humidity which you applicate for ironing bedclothes (bügelfeucht)



OK, sorry, lost this one in translation. You mean the poor plant(s) get ironed everyday? :rollhappy: If they are doing well for you, that is great. Virtually everyone else I've talked to about their plants are not having much luck. Lots of people claiming to have luck, but let's just say I don't trust them. You however, I would trust to report the truth.


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## Berthold (Feb 9, 2014)

KyushuCalanthe said:


> You however, I would trust to report the truth.




I agree  

have a look over there please
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=468485&postcount=36


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## naoki (Feb 9, 2014)

KyushuCalanthe said:


> OK, but couldn't you use artificial chemicals to accomplish the same thing? Don't get me wrong, I applaud your approach, I'm just wondering.



I just did quick check. It seems that for the other type of the mycorrhizae (endo-/Arbuscular mycorrhizae), there are some studies how the resistance against disease is achieved. The process is not well understood, but salicylic acid pathway seems to be involved. However, orchids are associated with ecto-mycorrhizae, and I didn't find any info so far. They may have different mechanisms.

A couple of my Cyps deflasked in 2012 seem to get the black leaves (assuming fungal infection) every year. I'm going to try including aspirin for every water this year.


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## Berthold (Feb 9, 2014)

naoki said:


> However, orchids are associated with ecto-mycorrhizae, and I didn't find any info so far. They may have different mechanisms.



Germination of orchid seeds is a *endo* mycorrhiza process where the orchid protocorm parasitizes the fungus but ecto mycorrhiza can develope in a later stadium of the plant live.


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## s1214215 (Feb 10, 2014)

I guess it is all a matter of time and patience to finding the way. We used to say that many Australian terrestrials were impossible, and now we can buy them in pots of inoculated soil. 

I wonder given time if we can find the key to this plant? :drool:

Brett


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## cypfanatic (Feb 10, 2014)

s1214215 said:


> I wonder given time if we can find the key to this plant? :drool:
> 
> Brett



YES WE CAN 

(Barrack Obama)


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## Berthold (Feb 10, 2014)

s1214215 said:


> I guess it is all a matter of time and patience to finding the way.
> 
> 
> I wonder given time if we can find the key to this plant? :drool:
> ...



I would say the key is known, but it is very difficult to handle, like it is complicate to cultivate truffle.


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