# C. trianae (good story too!)



## lanthier (Jan 17, 2021)

A good orchid story, if a bit long. This fall I took on the project of virus testing my orchid collection. Unfortunately, I had to dispose of several plants, mostly Cattleyas, and one that I was particularly sad to go was C. trianae ‘A.C. Burrage.’ It was my only trianae and I set out to find a copy of it (I did, but this is not THAT story). I shared my story of virus testing and disposal with one well-known grower that I had done quite a bit of business with. I asked if they would check their Cattleya trianae divisions, with the hope that I could add one or two strong trianae plants to my collection. I heard back that none were in good shape, and so I placed my order of various Cattleya seedlings. When I received the order, there were two gifts: Two Cattleya trianae divisions. They were not great shape, but a very nice gesture. And just this week one of them came into bloom. A single flower, yet I think this plant will do well going forward. Tons of roots, 4 potential new growths and clearly a bloomer and a fighter. There are good people in the world! 

To my orchid friends! Happy 2021! I hope you are all safe and healthy.


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## My Green Pets (Jan 17, 2021)

I bought a seedling clone of A.C. Burrage last summer at Carter and Holmes.
Nice that this division managed to squeeze out a flower for you. They'll be much better next year, I'm sure.


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## lanthier (Jan 18, 2021)

My Green Pets said:


> I bought a seedling clone of A.C. Burrage last summer at Carter and Holmes.
> Nice that this division managed to squeeze out a flower for you. They'll be much better next year, I'm sure.



Nice!!!! I was able to source a mature division from Waldor. I was telling Dave my story and he said, well I have trianae, x, y, and z, and can probably get you a division of our AC Burrage plant if you like. I was shocked and said YES!!!! It is doing great and I hope for it to bloom next year. Good luck with yours!!!! !


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## monocotman (Jan 18, 2021)

Good news! Catt peopleI find to be very generous!
If there are good roots on your plant then it should bounce back very quickly. Looking at the flower, I would say that you have a dark ‘Sangre de toro’ type.
David


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## Djthomp28 (Jan 18, 2021)

Lovely flower. great story!


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## Justin (Jan 18, 2021)

Nice! I tested my Cattleya and Laelia this winter. Out of seven plants, all were negative except for a really nice trianae, which sadly had to go.


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## lanthier (Jan 18, 2021)

Justin said:


> Nice! I tested my Cattleya and Laelia this winter. Out of seven plants, all were negative except for a really nice trianae, which sadly had to go.



Yeah Justin, I think I had to toss about 25% of my catts. Not sure if they were sourced infected or became so in my care...


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## BrucherT (Jan 18, 2021)

I want someone to show me what happens to these virus-positive plants that’s so dreadful.


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## Justin (Jan 18, 2021)

BrucherT said:


> I want someone to show me what happens to these virus-positive plants that’s so dreadful.



Orchid viruses can cause flower color breaks and deformation, and weak growth. Infected plants may also be asymptomatic.

Virused plants cannot be cured, and can infect other plants in a collection through human (hands, tools) and insect vectors.

This is why plants that test positive are usually discarded or destroyed. Growers with virused plants of historical or personal significance may decide to keep them, but under a regime to reduce the risk of infection of other plants.


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## lanthier (Jan 18, 2021)

BrucherT said:


> I want someone to show me what happens to these virus-positive plants that’s so dreadful.



It is interesting as I have worked with virused plants that show all the common manifestations (color break, non blooming, leaf issues, non-thriving) and have also seen plants that are garbageable, but not virused. Have also seen gorgeous vigorous plants that test positive, and they especially hard to throw out. But you don't want them mingling with your healthy plants, because if they DO transmit the viruses you do not know how they will infect healthy plants. Not worth the chance. I retest a + result and if it too is positive (always has), then it is GONE.


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## monocotman (Jan 19, 2021)

I only throw a Catt if the flowers are affected. I am now pretty good at plant hygene and keep all plants separate. 
As I have many choice divisions, some of old clones, it is highly likely that some are affected. As long as the plants grow and flower well then I am happy,
David


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## DrLeslieEe (Jan 19, 2021)

Great story!

David and Justin are both right in regards to virused plants. 

Important and heirloom plants and divisions without floral affects can be separated and managed. 

They have to be herded in a location away from insect vectors and handled very carefully at level 3 sanitation. I have mine in a separate room and regularly sprayed with systemics (insecticide and antiseptics) and handled with care (sterility protocols). I have not had any viral contamination since 15 years of doing this. 

So it is possible.

I also keep these 'special plants' at the highest immune functionality as possible using plants auxins and modulators (besides good nutritional practices) such as kelp, superthrive, subtilis bacteria, humic acids, silica, etc. This keeps them stronger to outgrow the viral particles ahead of infection of new growths. 

If you think about it, most jungle collected plants from a century ago were already virused. Yet they were grown and bred with before it became a big genocidal issue a century later. Something to think about lol.


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## monocotman (Jan 19, 2021)

All organisms have evolved in the presence of viruses. They are part of the natural world. Much of the DNA present in all higher plant and animal chromosomes came about through insertions made by viruses but subsequently modified by the host organism.
The reason that we are concerned about them in orchids that are maintained vegetatively for many years is that they have come into contact with viruses not present in their natural environment.
It is up to each grower to decide on their individual strategy. It’s not usually a problem where plants are predominantly seed grown like phrags. Going through a seed cycle cleans out many but not all viruses.
David


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## BrucherT (Jan 19, 2021)

Thank you everybody about the virus question. I’m just starting into Cattleya. I ordered test strips but they never arrived.


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## Guldal (Jan 19, 2021)

I'm just glad they don't discard of humans infected with covid-19 - and that I'm now afterwards supposed to have antibodies for at least the next six months... which should carry me through, untill my number is called up in the vaccine-queu!


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## DrLeslieEe (Jan 19, 2021)

Guldal said:


> I'm just glad they don't discard of humans infected with covid-19 - and that I'm supposed to have antibodies for at least the next six months... which should carry me through, untill my number is called up in the vaccine-queu!


I was going to reference to virally infected humans but thought too moral to touch upon lol.


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## Guldal (Jan 19, 2021)

DrLeslieEe said:


> I was going to reference to virally infected humans but thought too moral to touch upon lol.


You can with good conscience leave that to me....as a covid-me2-survivor of dubious moral standing, I guess, I would be granted a wee bit of leeway! 

But still, there are limits, so I better keep my thoughts to myself, when it comes to the virus and my stranger than strange (sick)bedfellows such as the now soon (can't wait) ex-POTUS; Bolsonaro and the like!


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## Happypaphy7 (Jan 19, 2021)

So....are you going to use that flower to test for virus on this one or wait until the next growth matures? Even then, cutting a part of the only leaf on a plant like this would be difficult. Why not test this one now using the flower??


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## Happypaphy7 (Jan 19, 2021)

DrLeslieEe said:


> Great story!
> 
> David and Justin are both right in regards to virused plants.
> 
> ...



Back then, they did not know about virused. So, how would you tell jungle collected plants were already virused? expecially since many do not show any symptoms at all?


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## DrLeslieEe (Jan 19, 2021)

Happypaphy7 said:


> Back then, they did not know about virused. So, how would you tell jungle collected plants were already virused? expecially since many do not show any symptoms at all?


Because many jungle collected plants within the last 30 years had been virused, so the scientific community assumed viral rates at 30% or more. 

Also many flowered back then with marks on flowers (like the famous art tulips) that were unexplainable. Now we know what those markings are.


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## Happypaphy7 (Jan 19, 2021)

DrLeslieEe said:


> Because many jungle collected plants within the last 30 years had been virused, so the scientific community assumed viral rates at 30% or more.
> 
> Also many flowered back then with marks on flowers (like the famous art tulips) that were unexplainable. Now we know what those markings are.


I realize that there are many different types of virus affecting orchids, but do you know if orchids (let's limit the topic to orchids, not tulips or other plants just for ease of discussion) collected from the wild came with either CymMV or ORSV?


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## DrLeslieEe (Jan 19, 2021)

Happypaphy7 said:


> I realize that there are many different types of virus affecting orchids, but do you know if orchids (let's limit the topic to orchids, not tulips or other plants just for ease of discussion) collected from the wild came with either CymMV or ORSV?


I don't really know that information as I'm not in the field of insitu collection. But I can find out from my South American contacts and revisit this topic when I get an answer. Please stay tune.


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## lanthier (Jan 19, 2021)

HI All,

I do not have the grow space to allow for the virused plants to live out their lives. Most of mine were mules or showed evidence in the blooms, so no big loss. If you are keeping the virused plants that perform well, you have far better care techniques/luck than I do. We dispose of all virused plant in the Smithsonian Orchid Collection in Washington DC, where I used to volunteer before Covid. We just cannot take the chance of virus ravaging the collection.

Cheers all!


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## Happypaphy7 (Jan 19, 2021)

DrLeslieEe said:


> I don't really know that information as I'm not in the field of insitu collection. But I can find out from my South American contacts and revisit this topic when I get an answer. Please stay tune.


Alright. I would love to know if the named two virus are present in the wild orchids.


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## Happypaphy7 (Jan 19, 2021)

lanthier said:


> HI All,
> 
> I do not have the grow space to allow for the virused plants to live out their lives. Most of mine were mules or showed evidence in the blooms, so no big loss. If you are keeping the virused plants that perform well, you have far better care techniques/luck than I do. We dispose of all virused plant in the Smithsonian Orchid Collection in Washington DC, where I used to volunteer before Covid. We just cannot take the chance of virus ravaging the collection.
> 
> Cheers all!


I think this is the best practice, and ideally if everyone did this, then, the prevalence of virus would be much reduced.


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## monocotman (Jan 20, 2021)

Just as an aside on viruses. I have worked as a plant breeder all my life and in the last 10 years we as a company have become increasingly interested in viruses. My particular crop is barley. Here there is one gene (yd2) that confers true tolerance to one of the main viruses in barley, barley yellow dwarf virus, transmitted by aphids. If the plant has this gene, the viral load can be the same as in a susceptible plant but the plant does not exhibit any symptoms ( yellowing leaves, dwarfing and eventually death). This resistance was discovered in Ethiopian barley lines in the 1950’s and has been crossed into mainstream varieties.
There is also a new resistance gene, yd4, which has been crossed in from a closely related species, hordeum bulbosum. Here the virus cannot replicate in the plant and dies out.
In addition to these two known genes there are several others that confer a lower level of tolerance to this virus.
This sort of arms race will be going on all across the natural world In plants and animals. It is part of the natural order of things.


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## DrLeslieEe (Jan 20, 2021)

Very interesting. I wonder if some of these positive viral cattleyas contain similar genes that can confer tolerance or reduce viral replication. That could explain the long term survival rate of these hardy heirlooms.


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## monocotman (Jan 20, 2021)

Almost certainly it will be! 
Part of the evolutionary arms race that has been going on for millions of years.


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## Happypaphy7 (Jan 20, 2021)

monocotman said:


> Just as an aside on viruses. I have worked as a plant breeder all my life and in the last 10 years we as a company have become increasingly interested in viruses. My particular crop is barley. Here there is one gene (yd2) that confers true tolerance to one of the main viruses in barley, barley yellow dwarf virus, transmitted by aphids. If the plant has this gene, the viral load can be the same as in a susceptible plant but the plant does not exhibit any symptoms ( yellowing leaves, dwarfing and eventually death). This resistance was discovered in Ethiopian barley lines in the 1950’s and has been crossed into mainstream varieties.
> There is also a new resistance gene, yd4, which has been crossed in from a closely related species, hordeum bulbosum. Here the virus cannot replicate in the plant and dies out.
> In addition to these two known genes there are several others that confer a lower level of tolerance to this virus.
> This sort of arms race will be going on all across the natural world In plants and animals. It is part of the natural order of things.


Thanks for sharing this information. I love reading about stuff like this! 
I wonder if this kind of discovery and application would be done with orchids, though. Food crops are essential to humans for survival and also for economic value. 
Orchids are bred mostly for flowers and sold, done. I know there are scientists studying quite a bit about orchids (mainly certain Dendrobiums and Phalaenopsis only as far as I know since these two are the ones that bring the most money in the trade). I hope to see better breeding practice for disease resistance and such, but I doubt there is enough incentive to get that done.


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## monocotman (Jan 20, 2021)

It should trickle down eventually when costs get lower when technology becomes routine and ‘old’. 
In the plant breeding industry we are piggy backing on gene marker technology that was originally developed for human medicine.
Just when that will happen is anyone’s guess.


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