# Are these fertilizers safe for orchids ?



## Gilda (Jun 14, 2016)

Are they worth using ? They were given to me...I DO NOT want to kill my orchids again. There is a bottle of liquid calcium....0- 0.5- 0
available phosphate 0.5% , calcium 4.0%

Then this ,also a liquid.


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## SlipperFan (Jun 14, 2016)

I don't see Boron, for instance.


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## troy (Jun 14, 2016)

It looks good to me, but I'm not a scientist, how much does it cost?


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## Gilda (Jun 14, 2016)

troy said:


> It looks good to me, but I'm not a scientist, how much does it cost?



Haven't a clue, it was given to me.


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## gonewild (Jun 14, 2016)

If you are already happy with the fertilizer you are using don't use it on your orchids.
Nothing it it will hurt but not much there to help either.

If you use it at the strength they recommend it is basically plain water.

Use it in your garden to get rid of it.


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## Gilda (Jun 14, 2016)

gonewild said:


> If you are already happy with the fertilizer you are using don't use it on your orchids.
> Nothing it it will hurt but not much there to help either.
> 
> If you use it at the strength they recommend it is basically plain water.
> ...


Thanks !


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## troy (Jun 14, 2016)

Interesting, it's no good??? I like the ingredients, 

pretty soon fertilizer will be outlawed because terrorists will use it to blow stuff up, after all the guns will be taken lol!!!


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## gonewild (Jun 14, 2016)

It's not that it's no good it just too confusing.
It does not have enough nutrients or the right balance of nutrients to use by itself. And to use in in combination with another fertilizer you need to figure out how to integrate it to maintain correct levels.

It has sugar in it, it's basically sweet tea that would taste like worms.

Why bother?


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## gonewild (Jun 14, 2016)

It lists kelp extract on the label yet it only contains 45mg in the entire bottle.
Dilute that at 1 tsp per gallon and your gallon of water only contains .25mg of kelp extract. So thinking there is some benefit from the kelp extract content is misleading. That is such a small amount.... imagine taking an asprin tablet and carefully dividing it into 1200 pieces and that is how much kelp extract would be in a gallon of water for your plants.


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## troy (Jun 14, 2016)

Hmm.. fertilizer is a marketing ploy. do you alternate urea - ammonium fertilizers on slippers?


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## gonewild (Jun 14, 2016)

troy said:


> Hmm.. fertilizer is a marketing ploy. do you alternate urea - ammonium fertilizers on slippers?



I don't use UREA.
I do use ammonium forms to supplement nitrates.
But the products in this thread don't have enough of either.


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## Gilda (Jun 14, 2016)

I found some info on the internet about this product . it is listed on Amazon. I think Lance is right, sweet tea that tastes like worm poo. I wondered about the sugar ?Never saw that listed on a fertilizer before.


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## Happypaphy7 (Jun 14, 2016)

It sounds scray! Medusas Magic!

Ok, jokes aside, I would feel safe using it. 
It has the big 5, and I believe/assume that the organic ingredients it lists contain enough of trace elements, if not most.


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## Vrug (Jun 15, 2016)

According to Oregon's Only website, https://www.oregonsonly.com/nectar-for-the-gods-products/, Medusa's Magic is just part 1 of a three part formula. In other words, they recommend you buy two other products to create a complete fertilizer. Sounds like marketing to me.


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## PaphMadMan (Jun 15, 2016)

There's not enough sugar there to taste it (so no sweet tea comparison), or to be a meaningful microbial food source in an already richly organic medium most orchids are potted in, or in comparison to the feather meal, bone meal and soybean meal extract. That amount of kelp has no possible function or purpose at all. Lots of hype here. 

But no harm using it up if you want to figure how it fits into your N-P-K CA Mg needs, and have an adequate supply of micronutrients from other sources.


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## JAB (Jun 15, 2016)

Oregons Only "Nectar for the Goods" products are a solid nutrient line marketed mainly for the Cannabis industry. I have never used it on orchids but with other container plants it seems to have worked well. It is not cheap in retail stores, but if you believe in feeding the evil amazon machine you can find pretty good prices. 
The philosophy behind various sugars is that the beneficial fungi and mycho's in your soil feed and thrive on simple sugar compounds. The idea is the sugar goes to the little community in your soil to facilitate uptake of nutrients better etc. 
It is part of a three part line but depending on what else you are using you may not need other components. 
Hype? In the nutrient industry!? LOL! Next you will tell me their is hype in the human nutrient industry too!?!?! I don't believe such hyperbole 
Of course there is hype. They want you to buy their product AND buy it frequently!! 

Just like anything new to your collection... dilute the **** out of it, and test it on a couple orchids that are not near and dear to you. 

Cheers
Jake


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## Gilda (Jun 15, 2016)

Hype...yep just like human nutrients , supplements...green coffee extract..Make you lose weight...and the list goes on and on.


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## czpana (Jun 15, 2016)

The sugar is probably molasses and that goes hand in hand with worm castings to activate them. This is just for enhancing the microbial in the soil. Unless you are growing in soil I wouldn't use it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PaphMadMan (Jun 16, 2016)

There isn't enough sugar there to have any effect on anything. Its presence is irrelevant, good or bad, soil or not.


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## Ray (Jun 16, 2016)

Most things intended for cannabis cultivation appear to be questionable in effect, let alone price. I guess their growers are more gullible than us!


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## JAB (Jun 16, 2016)

It has been my experience that people in general (whether growing pot or orchids or christmas trees) have a piss poor understanding of fundamental botany and the botanical sciences. Nutrient companies are well aware of this fact and certainly capitalize on it, just like vitamin producers for humans do. I would not say that every product geared for the cannabis industry is BS anymore then I would say that about orchids, begonias, etc. One has to find the right nutes for their specific conditions, and typically as time goes on I find that less is more regardless of the subject line. 

Most of us are quick to dismiss the underground cannabis growers as being stereotypical lazy, stoner ding dongs. But keep in mind that some of these folks have been growing a very specific crop for decades on the DL ... back in the day you had to actually figure out the problems you had as you couldn't look up "pot plant problem" on the googletron, nor could you go to your local gardeners club and ask advice. 

Point being is that everyone brings something to the table, but it is often a tiresome, tedious process sifting through the endless flow of BS out there in any hobby. 

My 2 cents (USD)
JAB


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## NYEric (Jun 16, 2016)

Gilda said:


> Hype...yep just like human nutrients , supplements...green coffee extract..Make you lose weight...and the list goes on and on.


Girl! You so fine.. You don't need to lose no weight!


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## gonewild (Jun 16, 2016)

JAB said:


> Most of us are quick to dismiss the underground cannabis growers as being stereotypical lazy, stoner ding dongs.
> JAB



Not me! I recognize the cannabis growing community as being very knowledgeable about plant nutrition. The serious growers are not lazy and do a fantastic job of producing beautiful plants. 

However, how they fertilize, how much they fertilize and what they fertilize with does not relate much to orchid plants. Two extremely different groups of plants.
However again, how the different nutrients affect cannabis plants can be used as a compassion of how they probably affect orchids similarly.
(No I don't grow or use and I'm not stoned)

The products like these in this thread may have some benefit to fast growing cannabis plants but not for slow growing orchids. But mostly they are just capitalizing on the magic frenzy. I've gone into grow shops and asked if they had basic fertilizers like calcium nitrate and they did not even know what they were.


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## gego (Jun 16, 2016)

SlipperFan said:


> I don't see Boron, for instance.



I read a study about commercial organic fert and one of the findings that were pointed out is that the level of Boron is too high for typical plants. Trace elements were abundant from the organic sources. For whatever reasons, they don't show these info on the labels.

I'm not speaking for this specific fert but the one I'm using which has some similar stuff to it, gave some really good results. If you remember that ball of roots from a Saint Swithin I posted a while back, that had about 4 months of application of this organic stuff. One thing I noticed is that an old media becomes sweet again. I don't have evidence or any proof or any scientific knowledge to back this up. This comes purely from experience and good eyes with deep attachment to these plants.

Here's one example and you can make your own observation and conclusion.
I have this standard hybrid paph in a two year old fir bark on a clay pot. White salt stain was already covering the half bottom part of the clay pot. I know everyone is familiar with this picture. This plant was ready for repot but I intentionally included this to my experiment. I wanted to see what happens to the bark.

I started to use this organic stuff in addition to my usual inorganic stuff. I never really paid attention to it (it wasn't part of the test) but one morning, as I was checking for root activity on the bottom of the pot, I noticed 90% on the white salt were gone. And the pot surface looks really clean. Very surprised.


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## Gilda (Jun 16, 2016)

NYEric said:


> Girl! You so fine.. You don't need to lose no weight!



One can never be too thin, too rich or have too many slipper orchids oke::evil:


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## JAB (Jun 16, 2016)

Lance
Solid points! 

Gilda
One can certainly be too thin! The anorexic standard of beauty in our culture is reminiscent of slave camps one see's in the horrors of war. Except our culture imposes it in a much more subliminal way.


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## Gilda (Jun 16, 2016)

JAB said:


> Gilda
> One can certainly be too thin! The anorexic standard of beauty in our culture is reminiscent of slave camps one see's in the horrors of war. Except our culture imposes it in a much more subliminal way.



The standard of beauty has been around awhile because the saying "A woman can never be too rich or too thin.") is attributed to Wallis Simpson, the American heiress for whom Great Britian's King Edward abdicated his throne in 1936.

I waiting on the "Rubenesque" women to make a comeback  It was surprising to see the fit , larger Sports Illustrated swimsuit model this year. Kudos to SI for including her !


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## JAB (Jun 17, 2016)

Gilda
Learned something new today! 

That SI model was HOT! Majority of men I know are not interested in a twig.


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## troy (Jun 17, 2016)

Twig ladies to me are not anything super extroardinaty although with the right personality then maybe, there is beauty in all shapes & sizes


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## myxodex (Jun 19, 2016)

gego said:


> I read a study about commercial organic fert and one of the findings that were pointed out is that the level of Boron is too high for typical plants. Trace elements were abundant from the organic sources. For whatever reasons, they don't show these info on the labels.
> 
> I'm not speaking for this specific fert but the one I'm using which has some similar stuff to it, gave some really good results. If you remember that ball of roots from a Saint Swithin I posted a while back, that had about 4 months of application of this organic stuff. One thing I noticed is that an old media becomes sweet again. I don't have evidence or any proof or any scientific knowledge to back this up. This comes purely from experience and good eyes with deep attachment to these plants.
> 
> ...



Interesting point, and there is a plausable reason for the result you see.

I suspect that the term "salting up" used by orchid growers is mostly a problem with phosphate scale. One of the benefits of low phosphate fertilisers like MSU and Klite might be partly down to reducing the rate at which phosphate scale develops. All the divalent cations in our ferts form very insoluble phosphates, and the first that will precipitate is Ca, simply because it's at the highest concentration. This problem is effected by pH and so it will most likely start only at a pH above 6.0. When the medium dries a bit between feedings the concentration of salts increases and phosphates precipitate. The issue with phosphate scale is that once formed, it enhances it's own formation by providing a template to sequester further divalent cations and phosphate at lower pH and at lower concentrations than in it's absence. So once formed it will continue to grow with subsequent feedings, and without drastically reducing the pH you cannot easily flush it out. Most importantly this will also sequester micronutrients even though they are present at low concentration. One thing that is known about phosphate scale is that it's growth is inhibited by the presence of soluble charged organic compounds. Citrate, for example, is a potent inhibitor of phosphate scale growth. So including soluble charged organics into your fertiliser will help prevent scale developing. So it is not inconceivable that organics could actually reverse the phosphate scale problem and give the result you see. 

There is some technical information in the following paper but it is not about horticultural application and it is not easy reading either.
http://www.nhm.ac.uk/research-curat...sphate-recovery/Nordwijkerhout/Koutsoukos.pdf


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## cnycharles (Jun 19, 2016)

Troy, ammonium nitrate sales are very carefully watched just for the reasons you mention. Anyone not in a Hort/ag industry purchasing 'quantity' of it not matching the grower profile gets a visit (because of Timothy mcveigh)


Elmer Nj


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## JAB (Jun 19, 2016)

McVeigh was a horticulturist!?!?!?


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## SlipperFan (Jun 19, 2016)

JAB said:


> McVeigh was a horticulturist!?!?!?



No, but he used nitrate fertilizer to make his bombs.


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## JAB (Jun 20, 2016)

Sorry Dot... that was sarcasm. Should have added a  at the end of the sentence


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## SlipperFan (Jun 20, 2016)

JAB said:


> Sorry Dot... that was sarcasm. Should have added a  at the end of the sentence



Ah -- OK. I'm glad.


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## JAB (Jun 21, 2016)

Come on Dot you are from Michigan. You should know sarcasm. You know like... The Wolverines are going to win the BCS this year!!!!


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## SlipperFan (Jun 22, 2016)

I do. And I'm often guilty of it myself. Didn't catch that one, though. 

About the Wolverines...or the Spartans...


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## JAB (Jun 22, 2016)

Well to be fair if we were talking hockey then MI would have several upper hands!


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## gonewild (Jun 22, 2016)

JAB said:


> McVeigh was a horticulturist!?!?!?



He secretly grew African Violets. Not many people know that. 
That's why he has so much nitrate.


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## JAB (Jun 22, 2016)

And so much anger  Should have grown orchids... would have been semi well adjusted!


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