# Two Icons Gone



## KyushuCalanthe (Jun 25, 2009)

Hey guys,

I'm not much for sentimentalism or gossip, but the passing of both Farrah Fawcett and Micheal Jackson in just one day is a bit much to over look. Both were such important icons that changed, in their own ways, different parts of our culture. It makes me a bit sad to see them pass, especially Michael since he was a genius who's life ended so weird and tragic.

Godspeed to both...

Tom


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## nikv (Jun 25, 2009)

I feel bad for Farrah's family and Michael's children. Particularly litte Blanket, the one who is a test-tube baby without any known mother. Wonder whether Debbie Rowe will raise the two older ones or will the Jackson family assume custody? And I'm guessing there will be a used cryogenic tank available on eBay soon.


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## SlipperFan (Jun 25, 2009)

Both, too young to die.


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## Wendy (Jun 25, 2009)

SlipperFan said:


> Both, too young to die.



Agreed...R.I.P. to both of them.


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## NYEric (Jun 26, 2009)

Our condolences to both families.


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## SlipperKing (Jun 26, 2009)

SlipperFan said:


> Both, too young to die.


I'm sorry but you get what you ask for. I for one, would never use either as a role model for rasing my kids.


NYEric said:


> Our condolences to both families.


I can agree with Eric.


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## emydura (Jun 26, 2009)

SlipperKing said:


> I'm sorry but you get what you ask for. I for one, would never use either as a role model for rasing my kids.
> 
> I can agree with Eric.



I agree that Michael Jackson is one of the strangest people to have walked the planet. But what is the issue with Farrah Fawcett? I can't say I know her that well other than she was in Charlies Angels.

David


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## kentuckiense (Jun 26, 2009)

emydura said:


> I agree that Michael Jackson is one of the strangest people to have walked the planet. But what is the issue with Farrah Fawcett? I can't say I know her that well other than she was in Charlies Angels.
> 
> David



Yeah. I can't speak for Michael, but I don't recall Farrah doing anything other than pushing the pop-culture sexual boundaries in a then (and to a certain extent, now) puritanical society. However, I can see how that can be seen as the objectification of women. Either way, I wouldn't call that "asking for" cancer.


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## goldenrose (Jun 26, 2009)

SlipperKing said:


> I'm sorry but you get what you ask for. I for one, would never use either as a role model for rasing my kids.
> I can agree with Eric.





emydura said:


> I agree that Michael Jackson is one of the strangest people to have walked the planet. But what is the issue with Farrah Fawcett? I can't say I know her that well other than she was in Charlies Angels.David





kentuckiense said:


> Yeah. I can't speak for Michael, but I don't recall Farrah doing anything other than pushing the pop-culture sexual boundaries in a then (and to a certain extent, now) puritanical society. However, I can see how that can be seen as the objectification of women. Either way, I wouldn't call that "asking for" cancer.



I'm puzzled with Farrah too, she also got beat up, who asks for that abuse?
I'll lay odds on a drug overdose on Jackson. We have to consider all of his 'rare' diseases that come with a **** load of drugs. Does anyone recall how long ago he had a fall on stage that resulted in a broken leg & broken vertebrae that he was _*still*_ suffering from & holding him back??? The suffering has ended for him & the children he possibly, probably molested!


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## orchidmaven (Jun 26, 2009)

OOO, Nasty !

If you can't say anything good about the departed. Don't say anything at all!
Let's get back to something we all know about.

Slippers!

Theresa. Off to spray my greenhouses........


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## Kavanaru (Jun 26, 2009)

orchidmaven said:


> OOO, Nasty !
> 
> If you can't say anything good about the departed. Don't say anything at all!
> Let's get back to something we all know about.
> ...



:clap: agreed!! :clap:


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## nikv (Jun 26, 2009)

Well, not to be argumentative, but I don't agree with that sentiment. You wouldn't say that about Adolf Hitler or Saddam Hussein. Just because someone is dead doesn't mean you should only speak of their good deeds and forget their bad deeds. While I have great sympathy for Michael's family and his children in particular, I won't forget that he was most likely a pedophile and was at the very least a strange dude. Farrah, on the other hand, I cannot say anything bad about her.


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## SlipperKing (Jun 26, 2009)

Unfortunely, Farrah didn't do her body any good after first showing off in her "birthday suit" but most of her adult life she spent it in a swimming pool of alcohol! I guess this wasn't a well known item with her.. Again not my kind of role model.


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## biothanasis (Jun 27, 2009)

nikv said:


> You wouldn't say that about Adolf Hitler or Saddam Hussein.


You see, they were not so bad! They might have been mentaly ill, but what can one do when a whole society wants to rise u to the top of power??? People like u and me (I am reffering generally, not to you and me personally...) drove them or permitted them to do what they did!!! So it is our fault too!!! We are the bad ones...!!!  They just confirmed how ill we all are!!!


Let's remember their good deeds and learn from their bad habits and actions!!! I think this is the best to do with everyone that departs from this world!!!

I can't say that I feel sorry for any family, but I wish God gives them the strength to withstand their loss!! Life goes on and I like to see people smiling!!!!


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## SlipperFan (Jun 27, 2009)

Shakespeare: "The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones."


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## KyushuCalanthe (Jun 27, 2009)

biothanasis said:


> Let's remember their good deeds and learn from their bad habits and actions!!! I think this is the best to do with everyone that departs from this world!!!
> 
> I can't say that I feel sorry for any family, but I wish God gives them the strength to withstand their loss!! Life goes on and I like to see people smiling!!!!



Hear, hear!


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## cnycharles (Jun 27, 2009)

SlipperFan said:


> Shakespeare: "The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones."



though shakespeare was an excellent writer, his quote isn't really very accurate. you could say that people's evils shouts and echoes from the rooftops, but their good whispers from one person's soul to another....

I wouldn't want to ascribe to his inference that evil can live on longer than good.... maybe he wasn't exposed to very much good in his time so that he couldn't recognize it's lasting effects! 

another point is though someone famous may have been indicated to be notorious, but unless it was proven, and since they can no longer defend themselves, it's better to let it lie... to compare hitler to jackson is completely off base; hitler's actions were completely proven and documented. though jackson may have been perverted (as many many other humans are), if it hadn't been proven (I don't watch news to know if it was or not) then what is there really to say now that he's dead? if it is eventually proven, then that would be different. conjecture never proves anyone guilty or innocent


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## Clark (Jun 28, 2009)

Had the poster.
Has the Thriller cd.
I was thoroughly entertained.
Would rather stab self in head with pencil then read Shakespear again.


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## SlipperFan (Jun 28, 2009)

cnycharles said:


> though shakespeare was an excellent writer, his quote isn't really very accurate. you could say that people's evils shouts and echoes from the rooftops, but their good whispers from one person's soul to another....
> 
> I wouldn't want to ascribe to his inference that evil can live on longer than good.... maybe he wasn't exposed to very much good in his time so that he couldn't recognize it's lasting effects!


I was trying to be ironic, as was Shakespeare when he put those words into Mark Anthony's mouth after Julius Caesar's death:
"Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears;
I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.
The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interred with their bones;
So let it be with Caesar."

In fact, Anthony's speech had the opposite effect of his words (as he intended) -- Romans tended to finally recognize Caesar's greatness, and Brutus, first the hero, became the villain.

My irony was meant to be a response to those who could only see the bad things about Jackson & Fawcett. I would hardly compare Jackson to Hitler, even though he certainly was a flawed character, especially in his later years. But his contributions to music, especially popular music, were enormous. Farrah was certainly someone who, toward the end of her life, contributed much to those suffering from cancer.

Who among us is perfect???


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## PaphMadMan (Jun 28, 2009)

While MJ was beyond eccentric, he was also the product of a twisted childhood and dealing with physical and mental health issues through much of his adult life. That he led a productive life at all shows great strength as well as talent. That he brought happiness to many and gave much to those in need is to be commended.

There certainly were serious questions about his relationship to children, but when it did come to a court of law he was found innocent on all charges. That he paid off an earlier accuser may say more about what the accuser was after than anything MJ did. There is at least some basis to give him the benefit of the doubt.


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## nikv (Jun 28, 2009)

PaphMadMan said:


> There certainly were serious questions about his relationship to children, but when it did come to a court of law he was found innocent on all charges.


No, he was found not guilty, which only means that the case against him wasn't proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Not the same thing as innocent. He had a very high-powered legal team on his side. And as for my analogy to Hitler an Saddam Hussein, I was merely pointing out that nobody has ignored their evil deeds, nor should they. I really don't think I should be referred to as "off base". I don't go around insulting other posters here, not sure why I should put up with it here.


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## cnycharles (Jun 28, 2009)

SlipperFan said:


> I was trying to be ironic, as was Shakespeare when he put those words into Mark Anthony's mouth after Julius Caesar's death:
> "Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears;
> I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.
> The evil that men do lives after them;
> ...



 oh, I would have understood the irony, though it was so long ago that I would've read that, that I missed it. also, it was someone else who had commented about the hitler/saddam slight comparison roundabout thing, so I wasn't pointing to you when I said that. pretty much I was just commenting in general and not pointing fingers at you... so, i'll go back to lurking!


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## cnycharles (Jun 28, 2009)

nikv said:


> No, he was found not guilty, which only means that the case against him wasn't proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Not the same thing as innocent. He had a very high-powered legal team on his side. And as for my analogy to Hitler an Saddam Hussein, I was merely pointing out that nobody has ignored their evil deeds, nor should they. I really don't think I should be referred to as "off base". I don't go around insulting other posters here, not sure why I should put up with it here.



my comments were certainly not meant to carry insult, just to point out that the comparison seemed a little strong. no injury intended. I don't insult people here at all if I can help it, so that should've helped point against my intention for insulting anyone. I would never say that evil deeds should be ignored, so we are in agreement there


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## SlipperFan (Jun 28, 2009)

cnycharles said:


> ... so I wasn't pointing to you when I said that. pretty much I was just commenting in general and not pointing fingers at you...


I didn't take it personally, Charles. I just wanted to be sure everyone knew I was being ironical, not passing judgment.



cnycharles said:


> my comments were certainly not meant to carry insult, just to point out that the comparison seemed a little strong. no injury intended. I don't insult people here at all if I can help it, so that should've helped point against my intention for insulting anyone. I would never say that evil deeds should be ignored, so we are in agreement there


Me, too!


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## PaphMadMan (Jun 28, 2009)

nikv said:


> No, he was found not guilty, which only means that the case against him wasn't proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Not the same thing as innocent. He had a very high-powered legal team on his side. And as for my analogy to Hitler an Saddam Hussein, I was merely pointing out that nobody has ignored their evil deeds, nor should they. I really don't think I should be referred to as "off base". I don't go around insulting other posters here, not sure why I should put up with it here.



Pardon my imprecise use of legal terminology. My point stands.

I did not refer to your analogy, call you 'off base' or otherwise insult you or anyone else. Including these comments after a partial quote of my post implies that I did.


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## NYEric (Jun 28, 2009)

Hmmm, I hadn't considered the fact that the Jackson accusers $ettling out of court reflected on them also! MJ definitely had issues anyway; and FFM was no 'Angel' either. However as noted, let's not speak ill of the dead.


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