# Cross Breeding???



## tocarmar (Apr 4, 2011)

I have been doing some research in cross breeding of Phaius.. I know you can breed with Calanthe, but has anyone tried with Cymbidiums? I was looking at Santa Barbara Orchid Estate and found this:
http://www.sborchid.com/plantdisplay.php?ocode=CBO2092

Tom


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## Shiva (Apr 4, 2011)

That's the only one known in more than a hundred years. That must mean something. Originally made in 1902 the parents are said to be Cym. iridioides x Phaius. tankervilleae. I wonder if the SBOE plant is a division of the original plant or a repeat of that cross.


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## Brian Monk (Apr 4, 2011)

That is terribly cool. I grow with Milton Carpenter, who originated many of the heat-tolerant breeding lines in teh backgrounds of today's plants. As far as I know, he has tried the occasional cross, but never made one that took.


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## Shiva (Apr 4, 2011)

Shiva said:


> That's the only one known in more than a hundred years. That must mean something. Originally made in 1902 the parents are said to be Cym. iridioides x Phaius. tankervilleae. I wonder if the SBOE plant is a division of the original plant or a repeat of that cross.



I am mistaken: there is also Phcym. Yellow Bird (Phaius. tankervilleae x Cym. Golden Elf registered in 1994.


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## Dido (Apr 4, 2011)

would be interesting to have a phaius with a cold growing cymbidium

But did you tried Phaius with frost hardy calanthe.

would be nice to have a Phaius growing outside. 

Have a flowering calnthe but no pollen of phaius.


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## NYEric (Apr 4, 2011)

different!


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## tocarmar (Apr 4, 2011)

I don't have a cold hardy Calanthe!! I have a Phaius in spike!!


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## s1214215 (Apr 4, 2011)

I have put pollen on Phaius tankervillae from Cym Golden Elf, Cym. Golden Vanguard, Spathoglottis Lion of Singapore, Calanthe rosea and Grammatophyllum speciosum. All pods took except the Calanthe and the Gramattophyllum. Sadly the spike rotted at the base before the pods were ready and I never got them to flask.

The reverse crosses took pods on the Spathoglottis, and Cym Golden Elf, but the Cym pods aborted after a month. The Spathoglottis held, but no results out of the lab in Bangkok. I dont think it was an infertility issue as Spathophaius has been made in the past with S. plicata and P. tankervillae. But the lab more likely, who tried too tell me the seed in the green pod was too old. I think they just didnt want to do flask it. Spatho also took pods with the Grammatophyllum, but no germination.

Brett


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## PaphMadMan (Apr 4, 2011)

Shiva said:


> I am mistaken: there is also Phcym. Yellow Bird (Phaius. tankervilleae x Cym. Golden Elf registered in 1994.



A third Phaiocymbidium was registered in 1999, Lloyd Alfred Southwood (Phcym. Yellow Bird x Phaius Gravesiae). It suggests that while the first generation Phaius x Cymbidium hybrids aren't easy, at least you aren't necessarily at a sterile dead end. 

From a classic plant breeding perspective it might be productive to start with tetraploids. Or start with an intergeneric hybrid of known fertility (Cymphiella x Phaius, Phaiocalanthe x Cymbidium, Gastrophaius x Cymbidium) or simply Cymbidium hybrid x Phaius species or Phaius hybrid x Cymbidium species. Sometimes hybrids are more accepting of 'foreign' pollen .


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## Brian Monk (Apr 4, 2011)

I have a Gastrophaius in bloom right now, and an incredible amount of deep red Cym pollen. I will probably make some kind of cross this week, as I am now very curious.

I wonder if the difference in time to seed formation makes a difference in this kind of breeding. For example, if Phaius makes seed in a short period of time, vs. Cymbdiums which take a long time. What if the Phaius aborts the inflorescence before the seed is ready?

Lastly, it doesn't surprise me that Golden Elf aborted seed pods, as this plant and its parent ensifolium are notoriously difficult to breed with.


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## Scooby5757 (Apr 5, 2011)

It seems, though im not completely sure, that a Phaius tank x Bletilla ocheracea took last week.


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## s1214215 (Apr 5, 2011)

Hi Ty

That wouldnt surprise me. Bletilla has crossed to Arundina and Pleione (both results intermediate between parents). Both are supposed to have been crossed with Coelogyne. Coelogyne and Pleione to Cymbidum.. So who knows. Mind you some were never registered I was told as they turned out to be poor plants, not easy bloomers and not all that worthwhile

Still, its worth trying.

Brett


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