# Humates



## Stone (Feb 26, 2012)

Well after a bit of reading, I think I'm becoming convinced of the benifits of humic and fulvic acids and will try using some on everything from paphs to vegies 
http://www.calciumproducts.com/articles/Dr._Pettit_Humate.pdf
And maybe even me!
http://www.humichealth.info/effects.html
Any thoughts?


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## keithrs (Feb 26, 2012)

A few of us have been using them for a while.... A few products I have been using as supplments use have humic so I only add fulvic acid as a supplment to my routine every so often.


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## Rick (Feb 26, 2012)

That's why I use kelp extracts.

But also consider that humic acids are present in high concentrations in moss, bark, and CHC, leaf litter, peat moss. Its what makes the tea brown color to the water from soaking the above materials.


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## Stone (Feb 27, 2012)

Rick said:


> That's why I use kelp extracts.
> 
> But also consider that humic acids are present in high concentrations in moss, bark, and CHC, leaf litter, peat moss. Its what makes the tea brown color to the water from soaking the above materials.



I think it's tannin which gives water it's tea colour. When I soak chc in water for 2 days it turns dark brown from the tannins. Humic acid is formed after years of biological degredation of organic matter and millions of years in the case of brown coal.
So presumably moss and chc would contain no Humic acid, bark and litter very small amounts and peat/soil- some?

From what I understand, the humic acid is extracted from the brown coal and the fulvic acid extracted from that.
Both are apparently very chemically active and have been shown to have a wide range of benefits to both plants and animals not the least of which is the ability to solubize and chelate nutrients and readily enter cells.

My thinking is that they should (and are) be used in conjuction with kelp and regular feeding program.


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## Rick (Feb 27, 2012)

http://www.engg.ksu.edu/HSRC/95Proceed/tang.pdf

Humics are from peat moss

http://jhbiotech.com/docs/Humic-Acids-on-BentGrass.pdf

Also check out this paper, sphagnum peat and fir bark contain both humic and fulvic acids.

I think Keithers (or maybe Ozpath's) kelp analysis shows very high levels of fulvic and humic acids.

The high calcium/ low K Life Force Trio product (available in Australia) is kelp based and full of your favorite organic goodies.




Stone said:


> I think it's tannin which gives water it's tea colour. When I soak chc in water for 2 days it turns dark brown from the tannins. Humic acid is formed after years of biological degredation of organic matter and millions of years in the case of brown coal.
> So presumably moss and chc would contain no Humic acid, bark and litter very small amounts and peat/soil- some?
> 
> From what I understand, the humic acid is extracted from the brown coal and the fulvic acid extracted from that.
> ...


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## Lanmark (Feb 27, 2012)

I tried this stuff several years ago and it stained my beautiful Fukiran roots a dark blackish brown. 

I'm sure, though, that it's great for orchids without decorative roots.


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## Stone (Feb 27, 2012)

Another interesting paper Rick. I thought you were talking about sphag moss which is totally different to moss peat. Some samples of peat moss I've used are very ''young''. you can still detect fragments of the sphag in it. You will notice from your post that the reed sedge peat has a much higher cec than the bark indicating the presence of higher no. of colloidal size particles formed over a long time period= higher humic acid concentration.


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## Stone (Feb 27, 2012)

Rick said:


> > The high calcium/ low K Life Force Trio product (available in Australia) is kelp based and full of your favorite organic goodies.
> 
> 
> 
> One at a time!! I just started using ''Seasol+plus'' which has kelp, marine wastes, humic and fulic acids. Fairly low in N and K.


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## Stone (Feb 27, 2012)

Lanmark said:


> > Fukiran
> 
> 
> 
> Please explain?


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## Ray (Feb 27, 2012)

"Humic" and "humus" are from the same root word, referring to "from the ground".

The humic acid used in horticulture is often from soft coal, which is simply a more-aged peat, in many cases.

Yes, we are trying to enhance the chemical nutrient environment of our plants, but I am concerned that "a little bit of this, a little bit of that" will mess with the plants' natural processes too much.


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## Stone (Feb 27, 2012)

Ray said:


> "Humic" and "humus" are from the same root word, referring to "from the ground".
> 
> The humic acid used in horticulture is often from soft coal, which is simply a more-aged peat, in many cases.
> 
> Yes, we are trying to enhance the chemical nutrient environment of our plants, but I am concerned that "a little bit of this, a little bit of that" will mess with the plants' natural processes too much.



I agree Ray, It's certainly very easy to get carried away with ''magical'' additives and if we do we should probably use them in extremely dilute form until we know what we're doing.
The humic substances though, are what the habitat plants have evolved with and probably gain a good proportion of their food that way? (through negatively charged humic substances as a carrier) so using small amounts with your regular fert. _should_ be a positive. At least that seems to be the experience in several reports.


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## Lanmark (Feb 28, 2012)

Stone said:


> Please explain?



Fukiran: Special Japanese varieties of Neofinetia falcata. There are over 200 of them registered with Nihon Fukiran Kyokai, the Japanese Fukiran Society.


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## Rick (Feb 28, 2012)

http://www.springerlink.com/content/h73pm17140273048/

Here's a paper that isolated humic acid from live kelps (including our favorite species used in our kelp extracts).

I also found a paper on isolation of humic acids from live water hyacinth and a couple of other terrestrial species.

In another paper, humic acids were inferred in living bryophytes (mosses) on the basis of metal absorption properties by organic acids (not specifically ID'd).


All the above papers expressed "head scratching" over the notion that humic substances were only produced by the decomposition of plant material carbohydrates, since it was apparent that humic acids could be sequestered in living plants.


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## keithrs (Feb 29, 2012)

I would be interested in knowing if humic acid would help with orchid seed sowing? I have noticed a big difference with veggie seeds in how soon they sprout and rate at which they grow.


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## Rick (Mar 1, 2012)

keithrs said:


> I would be interested in knowing if humic acid would help with orchid seed sowing? I have noticed a big difference with veggie seeds in how soon they sprout and rate at which they grow.




Good or bad Keithrs?

That sounds like a good experiment for a flasker.

I do a lot of salt toxicity work in my lab, and saw an interesting phenomenon that adding humic acid to an inherently toxic mixture of salts, reduced the toxicity of the mixture.

The cations are all technically "metals" so it doesn't surprise me that even cations like sodium and potassium may have some of their activity chelated by humates.


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## keithrs (Mar 1, 2012)

Good... I have cut about 2 days off lettuce seed germination. I water my seedling mix with a 8% humic acid solution before seeds are placed, than place a thin, moist layer of seedling mix top. Two days later I water(lite) with a kelp/fish product to help rooting and add alittle food for the seedlings and microbes.


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## jacobwilliams (May 7, 2021)

Thanks for sharing the document. There is no doubt humic acid is best fertilizer for plants. You just need use it wisely. 
I always keep in mind few things
Compost Correction
Water quantity
Use tap water
I am using it from 
I am using it for quite some time my experience is awesome


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