# Cyp. tissue culture



## Kevin (May 16, 2012)

Might be a dumb question, but just want to clarify for myself: if a person uses the term 'tissue culture' when referring to propagating Cyps, do they mean growing from seed, or do they have their terms mixed up?


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## monocotman (May 17, 2012)

Kevin,
at the moment this always refers to the aseptic culture of seed. 
Svante Malmgren has a great web site talking about the trials and tribulations of this system. Well worth a look.
As far as I know, there is no way of propagating individual clones using tissue culture like, say, cattleyas,
Regards,
David


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## Roth (May 17, 2012)

monocotman said:


> Kevin,
> at the moment this always refers to the aseptic culture of seed.
> Svante Malmgren has a great web site talking about the trials and tribulations of this system. Well worth a look.
> As far as I know, there is no way of propagating individual clones using tissue culture like, say, cattleyas,
> ...



At present time most European seedlings and flasks suppliers no longer have access to the wild mother plants, so they divide the clumps in flask and replate them, this is in a way 'tissue culture', though there is a loss of vigor, that makes up for weak, hard to grow seedlings after several cutting on improper media.

It is possible to tissue culture cypripedium that have been grown in pumice or rockwool, more difficult if they have been grown with organic or dirty mixes, as the decontamination process would be more complicated. They can be however tissue cultured readily, by lateral shoot induction out of a mature plant's apex, using little if no hormons and the proper media.


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## Kevin (May 20, 2012)

I was under the impression that _all _slipper orchid species could not be grown by tissue culture (mericloning). Is it only Cyps that this is able to done with? Why not Paphs or Phrags, then? Who is doing this with Cyps, and where can we buy them? Why are they still so expensive then?


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## Eric Muehlbauer (May 20, 2012)

Wasn't there an article in Orchids a few years ago about mericloning C. reginae and reintroducing it to the wild? From what I've read, there have been some cloning techniques developed for paphs, but they were not as cheap or productive as mericloning....not to mention that it seems that a lot of people just seem to like slippers being what they are, and don't want to see the mass produced clones that we see with other orchids.


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## Kevin (May 20, 2012)

I'm not aware of that article. Could be, but it may be like you say, that the market is not there. Too bad, because the alternative is to dig them from the wild. I have no problem with rescued plants, but there is no way to prove they were rescued or taken from someplace else.

For the major Cyp growers and sellers in the U.S. and Europe, where do they get their plants?


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## KyushuCalanthe (May 20, 2012)

Kevin said:


> For the major Cyp growers and sellers in the U.S. and Europe, where do they get their plants?



It depends on the plant. Of course all hybrids are produced in vitro. In the US only a few hobbyists are doing doing this. In Europe Michael Weinert and Svante Malmgren are two of the more famous producers of hybrids, but there are quite a few others.

With the species it depends on which one. To date most of the Eurasian species are as yet wild sourced, though C. calceolus, C. fasciolatum, C. flavum, C. formosanum, C. guttatum, C. macranthos, C. tibeticum, and even C. shanxiense have all been produced in fairly large numbers. Of the Japanese plants, only C. macranthos is produced through seed, the rest are wild sourced. Most of the North America plants (with the exception of the Mexican sp) have been raised by seed, though the C. acaule for sale are largely wild collected since it is such a common species.


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## Hakone (May 21, 2012)

Kevin said:


> For the major Cyp growers in Europe, where do they get their plants?



vegetative propagation


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## Hakone (May 21, 2012)

KyushuCalanthe said:


> C. calceolus, C. fasciolatum, C. flavum, C. formosanum, C. guttatum, C. macranthos, C. tibeticum



are produced in Europe through seed.


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## KyushuCalanthe (May 21, 2012)

Hakone said:


> are produced in Europe through seed.



Yes, that is what I meant. Though not all sold in Europe are from seed...


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## Hakone (May 21, 2012)

Correctly, not all sold in Europe, USA, China, Japan are from seed.


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## Kevin (May 21, 2012)

Good info. My original question was about tissue culture, and it seems that the general concensus is that it is possible, but not a good way of producing a high number of high-quality plants. And only a few species have had success with it. Is that correct?

More specifically, in Canada, where I'm from, is it amlost guaranteed that all native orchids for sale here are wild collected?


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## tocarmar (May 21, 2012)

Kevin said:


> Good info. My original question was about tissue culture, and it seems that the general concensus is that it is possible, but not a good way of producing a high number of high-quality plants. And only a few species have had success with it. Is that correct?
> 
> More specifically, in Canada, where I'm from, is it amlost guaranteed that all native orchids for sale here are wild collected?



I think Frasier farms are mostly seed raised, from their own breeding.


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## KyushuCalanthe (May 21, 2012)

tocarmar said:


> I think Frasier farms are mostly seed raised, from their own breeding.



Yes, Frasier is one that is seed propagating in Canada. In the past they definitely were getting a lot of stuff out of China alla pulled from the ground, but have turned to artificial propagation in the last decade.

Hey Kevin, terrestrial orchid sales will always be a "micromarket", so not many folks get in the game. Perhaps no one takes artificial production more seriously than European growers. You constantly hear stories of mass production and micropropagation out of Germany, Holland, and Belgium. 

Dido, thanks for the information on the tissue cultured plants. Hopefully this technique can be expanded and improved on. I know of one person in the US who has been trying this as well with some success (C. reginae).


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## Dido (May 22, 2012)

Frasier they do cloning of seedlings too, 
on this way they do it for the rare kinds, I get told by them. 

So it exist already in your countrys too.


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## Linus_Cello (May 23, 2012)

KyushuCalanthe said:


> Hey Kevin, terrestrial orchid sales will always be a "micromarket", so not many folks get in the game. Perhaps no one takes artificial production more seriously than European growers. You constantly hear stories of mass production and micropropagation out of Germany, Holland, and Belgium.



Maybe terrestrial temperate orchids will become the new outdoor garden fad once prices come down to $10-20US? Maybe in the US we'll see them in Home Depot, like some folks in Germany are seeing in their nursery?
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25492

In the US, once Martha Stewart mentions these plants in her magazines, sales can really take off. Tom of Parkside has a great story about one of their plants being featured in her magazine (some oncidium intergeneric, maybe brassidium); hundreds of people (orchid newbies) asked to buy one- the plant is about 4-5 feet tall with flower spikes (rivalling a standard cymbidium), not a windowsill plant.


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## keithrs (May 23, 2012)

I have heard of folk being able to buy terrestrial orchids from home centers in FL.


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## KyushuCalanthe (May 23, 2012)

Dido said:


> Frasier they do cloning of seedlings too,
> on this way they do it for the rare kinds, I get told by them.
> 
> So it exist already in your countrys too.



Hey Dido, I have heard of that, but "cloning" a developing seed isn't really quite the same thing as cloning a mother plant. Using axillary buds and root tips ensures that the resulting plants will be replicates of the mother plant while cloning developing seedlings could lead to propagating unknown plants. That is useful for getting more plants of a rare species, or if you are tying to increase production with a limited amount of germinating seed.

I know of one person who has cloned using root tips of the mother plant - that is the interesting direction to move in, especially with exceptional plants. Using axillary buds is fine too, but if the procedure fails then you risk losing the mother plant, and you don't get any new propagules either. On the other hand, using root tips doesn't mortally harm the mother plant if done correctly.

So, I guess it is all a matter of what your goals are for cloning plants in the first place. Really unusual plants like "alba" flowering C. japonicum, C. formosanum, C. kentuckiense, etc. could potentially be propagated using root tip tissue culture, but so far has not been done (or at least reported). Similarly, hybrids that result in exceptional flowers could be reproducing using the same technique.


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## Dido (May 24, 2012)

hi Tom, 

they are claiming that they do clones of adult plants. 

http://www.nextplant.de/gardenorchids

So lets see how it goes on.


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## KyushuCalanthe (May 24, 2012)

Hey Dido, sounds interesting. They need to clone that spotted Ulla Silkens on their top page!


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## Dido (May 24, 2012)

from this one are clones availabel but they changing form clone to clone, they told persons and it is affected by the themp as we know it from reginae with the intense colour for some types. 
It is nature....


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## Roth (May 24, 2012)

Root tip tissue culture is absolutely impossible, if one wants to get no mutations...

As for the remaining, mutations will happen, as there are exceedingly few knowledgeable people to develop protocols that carry no risks of mutations, and they ask a very high price for consulting.


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## Linus_Cello (May 24, 2012)

keithrs said:


> I have heard of folk being able to buy terrestrial orchids from home centers in FL.



What do you mean by "terrestrial"? Phaius and some calanthes? Isn't Florida too hot for most cyps? I've heard of folks growing good cyps in Florida, but they refrigerate them during the summer, and take them out late fall/early winter for blooms in Feb.


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## Kevin (May 24, 2012)

So, I asked my question because I was talking to a nursery here who is selling some native Cyps, and I asked where they got them. They said they got them from a broker, and the plants were from tissue culture. This didn't add up for me, and I asked more questions. They guy who owns it is nice and his company is very 'organic' and environmentally conscience, so I was hoping to have a good dialogue with him, and I am. Turns out the broker gets the plants from Holland, and the plants are divisions. I don't know the Dutch company name, but I'll try to get it. It's good to know that this kind of thing is happening here, and the plants aren't being dug up, but it is a bit of a shame that we have to get our native plants all the way from Europe!!! I really hope some Canadians will get into native orchid propagation, besides FTF. Their prices are a bit high, but unfortunately, I don't think anyone else will be able to go lower.


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## Dido (May 25, 2012)

Hy here is the Link for the NL one. 

http://www.gardenorchid.com/de


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## cnycharles (May 25, 2012)

Linus_Cello said:


> What do you mean by "terrestrial"? Phaius and some calanthes? Isn't Florida too hot for most cyps? I've heard of folks growing good cyps in Florida, but they refrigerate them during the summer, and take them out late fall/early winter for blooms in Feb.



there are lots of terrestrial native orchids in florida, since it is semi-tropical. i don't think there are any cyps native to florida


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