# Grande / Wössner Supergrande / Leslie Garay



## Rob Zuiderwijk (Aug 2, 2016)

Hi all,

I know I wasn't really up to speed with all the new stuff and changes in the world of Phragmipediums the last couple of years. But I'm quickly catching up again. Yes, I know about the confusing situation regarding the name changes in the subgenus _Phragmipedium_. But while migrating, and in the process updating, the data from my old web site to the new I discovered another major change by the R.H.S. in the hybrid registration, I totally missed out on. A change that in my opinion creates a lot of confusion and potentially a lot of mislabelled plants.

What am I talking about. While updating my database, I found out that in 2012 a new hybrid was registered as _Phragmipedium _Leslie Garay, made from _Phrag_. _caudatum _× _Phrag_. _longifolium_. But wait a minute isn't that grex for day and age known as _Phrag_. Grande?! What happened? So I checked the R.H.S. online database and saw to my surprise that they now say that _Phrag_. Grande = _Phrag_. _longifolium _× _Phrag_. _humboldtii_/_popowii _and that _Phrag_. Wössner Supergrande is now a synonym of _Phrag_. Grande?!?!?!?!
All this made me wonder what happened with the grexes where _Phrag_. Grande was involved. So I did some checking and searching in the R.H.S. online database and found that several hybrids are no longer registered as having _Phrag_. Grande as one of its parents, but _Phrag_. Leslie Garay.

Again, I totally missed out on this change. And I don't know if this was published/announced somewhere. (If it was can you please point me in the right direction so I can find it?) 
I know there has been some debate about the true parents of some Grande's around, but I didn't know that the decision was made to change the parentage of _Phrag_. Grande and as a consequence that of several other registered grexes.
I wonder if this is well known among people that are involved in the hybridisation of Phragmipediums. I mean not only the parents of some hybrids have changed, but what about plants of the grexes involved that are in turn used for further hybridisation. If the names are not changed one can end up with mislabelled plants that add to the confusion about the ancestry of certain hybrids.

Sorry, I needed to vent some confusion, amazement and surprise.

All the best,

Rob


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## eteson (Aug 2, 2016)

thanks for this information Rob.


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## SlipperFan (Aug 2, 2016)

I would guess not many knew of this change. I hate all this confusion the name changes create!!!


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## troy (Aug 2, 2016)

It gives the chucklehead plant taxonimists something to do, **** with us orchid growers.....


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## abax (Aug 2, 2016)

Rob, join of Confusion Club. There are many of us in grave
doubt as just what is what and many mislabeled plants.


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## NYEric (Aug 3, 2016)

Brown Phrags, who cares!? :evil: 
Just kidding Smitty!


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## eteson (Aug 3, 2016)

troy said:


> It gives the chucklehead plant taxonimists something to do, **** with us orchid growers.....



Man just pull out all the labels from your plants if you are not concerned about names... oke: taxonomy is a science and growing plants usually only a hobby.
Those "chucklehead plant taxonomist" spend hours and hours studying plants trying to understand them and giving us keys to name our plants. Some of them, specially in the Orchid world even work for free... I am very concenred about taxonomy and plant nomenclature and I think that if the RHS has made this change is for a very good reason. We need to understand why before complain.


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## Rob Zuiderwijk (Aug 4, 2016)

troy said:


> It gives the chucklehead plant taxonimists something to do, **** with us orchid growers.....



I don't think taxonomists have anything to do with the change I mentioned in this thread. Someone or something convinced the Orchid Registrar that one of the parents of a grex registered in 1881 is different from what they always said/thought it was. The evidence was obviously convincing enough that the Orchid Registrar changed the registration entry.


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## Rob Zuiderwijk (Aug 4, 2016)

NYEric said:


> Brown Phrags, who cares!? :evil:
> Just kidding Smitty!



Hey Eric,

I know you don't like green and brown Phrags.
You're forgiven. :wink:

Rob


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