# gardineri



## goldenrose (Jun 14, 2011)

Purchased this plant Feb '07 in bud which blasted, it was 3 gr. Nothing for 2008. Then 2009 in bloomed in April & July! Well ... there's no stopping it now-
4 spikes, 7 flowers!









5" pot with about 8 growths now, I just love it!


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## Shiva (Jun 14, 2011)

Fabulous Rose. Good growing!


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## Marc (Jun 14, 2011)

Very nice!


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## eOrchids (Jun 14, 2011)

Awesome display!!!


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## polyantha (Jun 14, 2011)

Fabulous plant! You love it and it obviously loves you too...


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## jjkOC (Jun 14, 2011)

This is super awesome!!! I hope mine will grow-up as nice as yours! Any culture tips??


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## emydura (Jun 14, 2011)

That is super Rose. What a beautiful healthy, well grown plant. Well done.

David


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## fibre (Jun 14, 2011)

:clap::clap::clap: :drool::drool: :clap::clap::clap:

W O W 

    

what a plant - what a culture!




​


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## KyushuCalanthe (Jun 14, 2011)

Rose, control that thing! It's embarrassing... :rollhappy:


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## John M (Jun 14, 2011)

Awesome! Wow! You've done super with this plant! Congratulations!

'Looks like wilhelminiae to me.


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## paphioboy (Jun 14, 2011)

Wowza!!! That's gorgeous!!! Excellent growing.... :drool: :drool: :clap::clap:


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## W. Beetus (Jun 14, 2011)

Spectacular display! Great growing!


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## Howzat (Jun 14, 2011)

That is awsome Rose. You have beautifully grown it to a big specimen.
I, personally still call it gardinerii, but taxonomists made it as wilhelminae or praestan var. wilhelminae. Look at the thread "glanduliferum revisited". Believe me it is soo confusing. In the mean time keep the original name tag.


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## JPMC (Jun 14, 2011)

Whatever the name it's a spectacular plant.


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## SlipperFan (Jun 14, 2011)

Fantastic blooming, Rose. 

As for the name, by the time I get these names/plants straight, somebody will change them again...


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## Rick (Jun 14, 2011)

Rose

This is the biggest/best grown wilhelm/gardnerii I've ever seen.

I would definitely check the AOS records to see if its good for a CCE:clap::clap:

Given the taxonomy issues, you'd have to research under all the possible names.

The flowers don't have to be the biggest or best quality for a cultural award, but just the best grown with representative flowers.


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## Justin (Jun 14, 2011)

great growing, well accomplished!


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## jblanford (Jun 14, 2011)

WOW!! That is just 'AWESOME' Rose. I pick one up in Feb. I hope it does half as good as yours, thanks.... Jim.


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## goldenrose (Jun 14, 2011)

THANK YOU! THANK YOU ST'ers! 
It does feel great to get one to this point! I have more plants than I know what to do with & sometimes think I'm spreading myself a bit thin when it comes to really getting to know them. I feel it's still somewhat of a baby, I hope I can continue to give it what it wants & needs! 


jjkOC said:


> This is super awesome!!! I hope mine will grow-up as nice as yours! Any culture tips??


I don't do anything special, treat it like my other multis - bright light, south end of the GH but it's shaded by 2pm. Let it dry slightly between waterings, fertilize on a regular basis, I rotate MSU, OL's Jungle Green, I got some Schultz's & a bottle of something else & epsom salts & sprinkle the crushed oyster shell around.  Sounds like a real plan! 




John M said:


> ......'Looks like wilhelminiae to me.





Howzat said:


> ......I, personally still call it gardinerii, but taxonomists made it as wilhelminae or praestan var. wilhelminae. Look at the thread "glanduliferum revisited". Believe me it is soo confusing. In the mean time keep the original name tag.


Believe me I thought a few seconds & did go back to that thread. I'm going to continue to call it gardineri. The tag says gardineri 'Joe' x 'Ron' and came from OrchidsTN, an ebay vendor.



SlipperFan said:


> .....As for the name, by the time I get these names/plants straight, somebody will change them again...


oh so true! :rollhappy:



Rick said:


> Rose
> This is the biggest/best grown wilhelm/gardnerii I've ever seen. I would definitely check the AOS records to see if its good for a CCE:clap::clap:
> Given the taxonomy issues, you'd have to research under all the possible names. The flowers don't have to be the biggest or best quality for a cultural award, but just the best grown with representative flowers.


Does one need one of the judging programs/software to access the database? I would like to find out. Judging was this past Sat. but I didn't think it was far enough along with the flowers opening. Sun. was club meeting but no judging, Natt's Greenhouse were our hosts! Timing is everything! This plant has bloomed anywhere Mar-July so maybe we'll hit it right one of these years! .... or depending on how the flowers hold up it might be OK for next month, time will tell. 
Does anyone one know - would 2 flowers per stem be typical or has anyone seen one with 3?


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## John M (Jun 15, 2011)

I have seen with 3; but, it's not common at all. Considering that your plant is 8 growths, with 4 in bloom and most with 2 flowers, there's good reason to be very impressed!


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## Howzat (Jun 15, 2011)

Rick said:


> Rose
> 
> This is the biggest/best grown wilhelm/gardnerii I've ever seen.
> 
> ...



Rose/Rick, I don't know about the AOS standard. I know that my gardinerii can give 2-3 flowers, a small multigrowths but has never given multispikings. But yours looks like that the flowers also display a good shape, good color and good spiking habit. Can't see the size of it. But if you happen to meet a judge, ask him/her first about the quality. If the quality,size, shape, color etc are also good, then why not ask for a quality award as well as the Cultural award. You might get both. Good luck.
If you see UweM's post in the thread of "glanduliferum Revisited" he has attached a link to Notes by Dr. Leslie Garay, who is a splitter and recognized Paph gardinerii as a species.
And Rose, for the sake of Conservation please self it. I selfed mine 2 years ago and now have about 150 seedlings, still in compots. And I rate yours better than mine.


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## Howzat (Jun 15, 2011)

Last night I just installed my OrchidWIZ. Don't know yet how to operate it fully, but I will try to see what award has ever been given to gardinerii (wilhelminae)??


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## emydura (Jun 15, 2011)

goldenrose said:


> Does anyone one know - would 2 flowers per stem be typical or has anyone seen one with 3?



I was able to get a third flower on mine this year for the first time. I remember Rick saying that was pretty rare as most only have two. Who needs three flowers when you have that many spikes. I may have had 3 but you had 7. 

David


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## SlipperKing (Jun 15, 2011)

goldenrose said:


> Believe me I thought a few seconds & did go back to that thread. I'm going to continue to call it gardineri. The tag says gardineri 'Joe' x 'Ron' and came from OrchidsTN, an ebay vendor.



Beautifully grown plant Rose! I find your quote above so funny. My tag says wilhelminiae 'Joe' X 'Ron'!:rollhappy:


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## Howzat (Jun 15, 2011)

Rose
I just extractthis from my new OrchidWiz.
1. Orchid Wiz recognized this as wilhelminae, so too is AOS. But Dr. L.Garay critised AOS for lumping it together in glanduliferum. But funnily enough, the last three awarded plant only bear the name of wilhelminae. I think L. garay still maintained this as gardinerii.
2. anyway, the last three awarded plants in USA are
(i) 2004 Paph wilhelminae "Wilhelmina Gardener". HCC /AOS 78 points. NS12x6.6cm, DS2.5X3.1, Petal 0.6X3.1 Synsepals 1.6X3.1. 2 flowers, 1 spike
(ii) 2006 Paph wilhelminae "Irma Scott HCC 78points owned by Greg&IrmaScott. NS 14X6.4, DS 2.5X3.5, petals 0.8X7.0, Synsepal 2.0X3.2, Pouch 1.8X4.8. 1flower + 1bud on 1 spike
(iii) 2008 Paph wilhelminae "Sunset Valley". HCC/AOS 77 points. Owned by Fred Clark, Vista, Ca. NS 13.2X7.2, Dorsal 2.8X4.3cm, petals 1.1X7.5, synsepal 2.5X4.2, Pouch 1.7X4.4. 6 flowers on 2 spikes.
Rose, I think yours is amongst the above three awarded plants, though the third one was very impressive, with its bloom and size of dorsal and its NS.
Hope you approach the judging panel.

David, I remember seeing yours here and I also remember it has impressive flowers. I also asked you to get it judged for an award and to self it. Did not know what you've done with it.


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## emydura (Jun 15, 2011)

Howzat said:


> David, I remember seeing yours here and I also remember it has impressive flowers. I also asked you to get it judged for an award and to self it. Did not know what you've done with it.



It just flowered at the wrong time to get it judged. Maybe one day. The plant was a bit small to self as well. It is not like Rose's plant. I'll wait till it is a bit bigger.

David


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## Yoyo_Jo (Jun 15, 2011)

Way to grow, Rose! :clap:


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## goldenrose (Jun 15, 2011)

SlipperKing said:


> Beautifully grown plant Rose! I find your quote above so funny. My tag says wilhelminiae 'Joe' X 'Ron'!:rollhappy:


No kidding! I thought I remembered a couple of people having this clonal X. When did you get yours? The rest of the info on the tag is 6/05 B 7400.


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## goldenrose (Jun 15, 2011)

Howzat - *thanks so much* for the info of Orchidwiz, I was pulling up zippo thru searches. I'm kinda surprised there aren't more. Well all I can do is hope the flowers hold up! (and it would help if the weather stays mild!)
I'm getting measurements of - NS 11.5 x 6 (on 2 largest, 9.5 x 5.5 on others).
DS 3 x 4, Petals 1 x 7.5 (on 2 largest, .75/8 x 6.5 on others),
Synsepal 3 x 4, Pouch 1.5 x 3.5.

If I self it now, then I wouldn't be able to present it for judging correct? 
I think there will be enough mature growths for it to bloom next year........ decisions, decisions!


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## Rick (Jun 15, 2011)

goldenrose said:


> Howzat - *thanks so much* for the info of Orchidwiz, I was pulling up zippo thru searches. I'm kinda surprised there aren't more. Well all I can do is hope the flowers hold up! (and it would help if the weather stays mild!)
> I'm getting measurements of - NS 11.5 x 6 (on 2 largest, 9.5 x 5.5 on others).
> DS 3 x 4, Petals 1 x 7.5 (on 2 largest, .75/8 x 6.5 on others),
> Synsepal 3 x 4, Pouch 1.5 x 3.5.
> ...



I don't think the judges would want to see flowers tramatized for breeding.

Also I'm only seeing record comparisons to flower quality awards, and not for cultural awards (which will tell how many growths in spike), which I see as the superior atribute for your plant Rose. Your flowers are smaller than the above HCC awards, but note they are all single spike plants. I've seen some big clumps of this species, but never with more than 1 or 2 spikes at once.

When is your nearest judging center meeting coming up?

wilhelm flowers hold up for quite a while, so you have plenty of time to breed after showing.


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## Howzat (Jun 15, 2011)

Rose,
Yes, you cannot show to the judges if it has been hybridised or selfed. However this type of plant is long lasting. You can hybridise it 4-6 weeks after it flowered. So there is plenty of time.
I think the dorsal is awesome and large, same as the synsepal, but dorsal is one of the first point of eye contact in slipper. As long as there is nothing wrong with the staminode (most important in slipper) and there is no color break or other blemish ( a tiny one is OK), I think the judges should look at this flowers/plant favourably. Also the petals is wider than the others and as long as the others. Sorry number (i) as in my previous post above, the petals are 0.6X7.0 (very very narrow), so yours are bigger than most. Pouch is within the range. Yes, the NS is a little smaller, but on balance it is an awesome wilhelminae flower. Try to stake all the spikes so that most flowers are well positioned. Sometimes you have to manipulate the flowers by hand. But in your case you may not have to do it. One last thing is that you may have to ask whether the judges lean towards the name wilhelminae or would they accept gardinerii (my feeling is the AOS judges do not recognise gardinerii), and if they only recognise wilhelminae, then make another tag for wilhelminae!!! Good Luck.


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## Clark (Jun 15, 2011)

Eye candy!


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## valenzino (Jun 15, 2011)

Beautiful,congrats to have grown this to specimen size!


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## goldenrose (Jun 15, 2011)

Rick said:


> I don't think the judges would want to see flowers tramatized for breeding.
> Would certainly ruin that pretty picture!
> 
> When is your nearest judging center meeting coming up?
> ...






Howzat said:


> Rose,
> Yes, you cannot show to the judges if it has been hybridised or selfed. However this type of plant is long lasting. You can hybridise it 4-6 weeks after it flowered. So there is plenty of time.
> I think the dorsal is awesome and large, same as the synsepal, but dorsal is one of the first point of eye contact in slipper. As long as there is nothing wrong with the staminode (most important in slipper) and there is no color break or other blemish ( a tiny one is OK), I think the judges should look at this flowers/plant favourably. Also the petals is wider than the others and as long as the others. Sorry number (i) as in my previous post above, the petals are 0.6X7.0 (very very narrow), so yours are bigger than most. Pouch is within the range. Yes, the NS is a little smaller, but on balance it is an awesome wilhelminae flower. Try to stake all the spikes so that most flowers are well positioned. Sometimes you have to manipulate the flowers by hand. But in your case you may not have to do it. One last thing is that you may have to ask whether the judges lean towards the name wilhelminae or would they accept gardinerii (my feeling is the AOS judges do not recognise gardinerii), and if they only recognise wilhelminae, then make another tag for wilhelminae!!! Good Luck.


Thanks again, you've brought up some good points! Can you tell I've never presented a plant for judging? I keep saying I'm going to go to one to listen & observe but I still haven't made it. At our shows I have sat in for a short time when they've pulled plants for AOS judging so I would think it's pretty much the same.
I've looked it over closely, no color breaks, nothing wrong with the stams, everything all lined up, nothing wonky. I do have one regret that I didn't start staking sooner, these stem are noticeably stiffer than others but I'm trying to encourage a better direction & think I can get those other 3 flowers facing forward (although I like the side profile, 2 are going one way & the third the other way). Cross your fingers!


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## Mathias (Jun 15, 2011)

Wow, what a wonderful plant! :clap:


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## Rick (Jun 15, 2011)

Rose.

For cultural awards need to be just as concerned about foliage as the flower orientation. Groom the leaves for shininess, remove dead basal leaves, ultra check for mealies and scale, find a pretty pot to set it in (or at least make sure the pot looks clean and presentable).

The flower dimensions/ form/ color of these flowers aren't competitive with the past HCC awards, but they are good representative flowers. So what you are competing for would be as a grower of a very well grown plant (as opposed to the owner of a particularly high quality/ showy flower). Different philosophy. Technically a cultural award is for the grower (showing off your growing skills) not the plant.


Hopefully some of our AOS judges will throw in some tips.

Seems like I saw an article in Orchids within the last year on growing/showing specimen plants.


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## Howzat (Jun 15, 2011)

Rose, one last thing. Please cut the top of stake that is over the top of the flower. Also do not tie the pedicel/ovary to the stake. It is an automatic disqualification. Over here AOC is pretty strict on this matter, but I am sure AOS have similar requirement. I know the excitement of getting your first award. I had mine in 1990, an AM for my micranthum. Luckily I had lots of help how to present the plant prior to judging. Over here award judging can be conducted half hour prior to any club's (there are 5 clubs in or near metropolitan Perth) monthly meeting, though there should be a minimum of 5 judges present.


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## SlipperKing (Jun 15, 2011)

goldenrose said:


> No kidding! I thought I remembered a couple of people having this clonal X. When did you get yours? The rest of the info on the tag is 6/05 B 7400.



Glen Decker


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## JeanLux (Jun 16, 2011)

:clap: Bravo !!!! :clap: Jean


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## chrismende (Jun 16, 2011)

Wonderful plant and flowers! I love this species! I have one labelled gardineri (the "true" one, says Michael at Orchids of Los Osos), and a small seedling labelled wilhelminiae. Someday the first will bloom, but it has only two growths now. The second one I'll have to wait on for quite a while. Hope one looks as nice as yours!


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## Ernie (Jun 16, 2011)

Rick said:


> Groom the leaves for shininess.



But not unnaturally so. 

Your tips are spot on, Rick.


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## goldenrose (Jun 16, 2011)

With all this great info ....
should we have a seperate Preparing Your Show Plants thread?


Rick said:


> Rose....
> Seems like I saw an article in Orchids within the last year on growing/showing specimen plants.


it's not ringing a bell but I do hold on to them, I'll look back. Thanks!



Howzat said:


> Rose, one last thing. Please cut the top of stake that is over the top of the flower. Also do not tie the pedicel/ovary to the stake. It is an automatic disqualification. Over here AOC is pretty strict on this matter, ....


:rollhappy: actually I didn't like taking the pic with it (nor all the clips) but I'm almost out of long stakes & was hoping once it's trained I could go to short ones that don't detract from the flowers. Clipping the ovary to the stake is the only way I can get the flower to turn, I'm hoping after a month it will stay put!


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## Rick (Jun 16, 2011)

Even better if the spikes and flower orientation are nice without stakes.

After they've been "trained", then see if they stand up good without the stakes, and use them only for transport.

Otherwise as Howard says make them as inoccuous and un-noticable as possible.


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## goldenrose (Jul 6, 2011)

*update*

:sob::sob: well judging & club is this weekend - 3 flowers have faded ...
so the next best thing - pollinate! 
Went for something different ... 
have this China Moon (armen. x Greyi), haven't killed it in 2 years & bloomed both years! Puts out a new growth each year, nice compact as is the gardineri ... time will tell!


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## McPaph (Jul 13, 2011)

WOW! What a great looking plant and flowers. Good job and congrats. :clap:


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## tenman (Jul 13, 2011)

Impressive!


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## goldenrose (Jul 13, 2011)

Wondering if the pollinated flowers were too far along, they wilted rather quickly ....
time will tell before too long!


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## Marco (Jul 13, 2011)

hey now...4 spikes thats awesome...good growing. flowers look great too


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