# cyp reginae at remsen bog +(2)



## cnycharles (Sep 6, 2008)

...pictures continued from part 1 of cyp reginae plus lots more in adirondacks





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showy ladyslippers




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loesel's twayblade and grass pink (left to right)




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rose pogonia and shining ladies' tresses




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shining ladies' tresses and large padleaf orchis




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large padleaf orchis and very shaky pic of goodyera tesselata leaves


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## biothanasis (Sep 6, 2008)

Great photos and spectacular plants!!!! Padleaf is Platanthera? And shinning ladies' tresses is Spiranthes? I love the Pogonia, but I cannot find it anywhere to buy...
Thanks for sharing...!!!


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## likespaphs (Sep 6, 2008)

wow... so very neat.
thanks!


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## cnycharles (Sep 6, 2008)

biothanasis said:


> Great photos and spectacular plants!!!! Padleaf is Platanthera? And shinning ladies' tresses is Spiranthes? I love the Pogonia, but I cannot find it anywhere to buy...
> Thanks for sharing...!!!



yes, those species are the one. funny, I think rose pogonia is fairly common to find here in the u.s. and seems like could find in europe. maybe you could get some from labs in flask from here or somewhere else
thank you and you are very welcome!

.... or do you mean can't find the grass pinks? they are very common here in the states, should be able to find some in flask that could be shipped to you if you can't find it in europe


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## Heather (Sep 6, 2008)

These are just blooming now?


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## biothanasis (Sep 6, 2008)

I was reffering to the Pogonia! I search mainly in ebay, maybe that is why I cannot find any, but again this is the site I trust most...  Additionally I have been told of a site here in europe but I lost the link and as far as I remember it was too expensive for me... Thank you for the info!!!!!!!


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## cnycharles (Sep 6, 2008)

biothanasis, by pogonia you do mean pogonia ophioglossoides... 

heather, I edited and uploaded my pictures from my download folder, which were in order from most recent to the least recent... the last posts of showies and all were from mid-june (which I think you already figured out but just making sure... )


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## biothanasis (Sep 6, 2008)

Calopogon tuberosus! Sorry, I guess I should reffer to the scientific names for more clarity!!! However I do not remember which one the site was for!


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## cnycharles (Sep 6, 2008)

I'm sorry, it seems I can't keep straight the common and latin names of grass pink and rose pogonia. Rose pogonia is p. ophio....... and grass pink is calopogon. 

Biothanasis, If I were you I would do a google search http://www.google.com for what you are looking for, I'm sure there must be a lot of labs or nurseries that would have that available for sale, and must be ones that would have flasks in the u.s. that would be able to ship to you if for some reason you couldn't find one near you


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## biothanasis (Sep 6, 2008)

Hmmmm.... Thank you cnycharles!!!! I think I will as soon as I increase my budget a little... Thanks again...


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## goldenrose (Sep 6, 2008)

Beautiful cyps & that padleaf is cool!


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## Kevin (Sep 7, 2008)

biothanasis said:


> Great photos and spectacular plants!!!! Padleaf is Platanthera? And shinning ladies' tresses is Spiranthes? I love the Pogonia, but I cannot find it anywhere to buy...
> Thanks for sharing...!!!



They are _Platanthera orbiculata_ (one of my favorites) and _Spiranthes lucida_ - haven't seen that one yet.


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## cnycharles (Sep 7, 2008)

Kevin said:


> They are _Platanthera orbiculata_ (one of my favorites) and _Spiranthes lucida_ - haven't seen that one yet.



I wish the padleaf was orbiculata, I've never seen it yet. Here in NY we have lots of platanthera macrophylla but so far a bunch of us have not found p. orbiculata. Macrophylla has spurs longer than 30mm I believe and generally orbiculata has spurs generally shorter than 28mm. I would have to look that up to be exact, but that is how you tell them apart by measuring the spurs.


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## Kevin (Sep 7, 2008)

Oh, thanks for the correction. I was not aware of P. macrophylla. Seems that with a difference so minute as that, they should be varieties, not distinct species. But, I'm not a taxonomist. Very nice pictures anyway.


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## Yoyo_Jo (Sep 7, 2008)

Oh wow! The cypripediums are fabulous! All great photos - thanks for sharing. Now must go find your first thread...


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## cnycharles (Sep 7, 2008)

Kevin said:


> Oh, thanks for the correction. I was not aware of P. macrophylla. Seems that with a difference so minute as that, they should be varieties, not distinct species. But, I'm not a taxonomist. Very nice pictures anyway.



It is interesting how a plant can be an orbiculata or a macrophylla depending on small details and yet if you were to look at a picture you would say they were exactly the same. Yet, a northern small yellow ladyslipper, and small southern yellow ladyslipper and a yellow ladyslipper are all only varieties. If you had full plant to-scale pictures of the ladyslippers you would see obvious differences. I guess a lot of weight is placed on the likelihood of something possibly having a different pollinator, and therefore being called a different species. There is some difference of habitat in general for macrophylla (I've read this anyhow) though some can grow together, but a huge difference in habitat for the three yellow ladyslippers from what I've seen. I've heard and read that a longer spur on an orchid or a flower in general is intuited by a taxonomist as meaning a pollinator must have a longer tongue to get to the bottom and gather nectar. So, macrophylla can be separated more quickly from orbiculata in part because of a difference in spur length (for the general population. 

Yes, it can seem sort of random at times trying to figure it out... especially nowadays with genera and species names bouncing all over the place


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## Kevin (Sep 7, 2008)

cnycharles said:


> It is interesting how a plant can be an orbiculata or a macrophylla depending on small details and yet if you were to look at a picture you would say they were exactly the same. Yet, a northern small yellow ladyslipper, and small southern yellow ladyslipper and a yellow ladyslipper are all only varieties. If you had full plant to-scale pictures of the ladyslippers you would see obvious differences. I guess a lot of weight is placed on the likelihood of something possibly having a different pollinator, and therefore being called a different species. There is some difference of habitat in general for macrophylla (I've read this anyhow) though some can grow together, but a huge difference in habitat for the three yellow ladyslippers from what I've seen. I've heard and read that a longer spur on an orchid or a flower in general is intuited by a taxonomist as meaning a pollinator must have a longer tongue to get to the bottom and gather nectar. So, macrophylla can be separated more quickly from orbiculata in part because of a difference in spur length (for the general population.
> 
> Yes, it can seem sort of random at times trying to figure it out... especially nowadays with genera and species names bouncing all over the place



Quite right. I was going to mention the yellows as a comparison, but I have read some other threads on this forum that have got pretty heated about this kind of issue. But since you mentioned it... Also, please use the latin names too to describe species if you can - for instance, what are the three yellows you are talking about? I only know of two - Cyp. parviflorum var. makasin (small yellow) and parviflorum var. pubescens (large yellow).


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## cnycharles (Sep 7, 2008)

Kevin said:


> Quite right. I was going to mention the yellows as a comparison, but I have read some other threads on this forum that have got pretty heated about this kind of issue. But since you mentioned it... Also, please use the latin names too to describe species if you can - for instance, what are the three yellows you are talking about? I only know of two - Cyp. parviflorum var. makasin (small yellow) and parviflorum var. pubescens (large yellow).



 that was part of a previous discussion, whether or not cyp. parviflorum var. makasin (northern small yellow ladyslipper) was any different from southern small yellow ladyslipper (cyp. parvi. var. parvi.); this is maybe condensing the discussion a bit, that maybe the two were just different ends of a cline or such. other people more south of where I live hadn't had experience with the different habitat of the northern yellows and wondered if they were really different that much from the southern yellows (small). the two live in very different conditions, have a different fragrance and overall size of plant/flowers from the plants I've seen. part of what I mentioned was that for tropical orchids many taxonomists would separate two populations of plants as very possibly different species if they had a measurably different fragrance, and it would seem that the northern small yellow ladyslippers (makasin) and southern small. y. lslipper (parviflorum var. parviflorum) have a very different one from what I can tell and have read other's descriptions of the two. translating the different fragrance theory from tropicals to native yellows, this might make a good argument for the three yellows to be all different species instead of varieties... there seems to be less difference between orbiculata and macrophylla than the three yellows in my opinion (no taxonomist here, for sure!), so begs the question to me that shouldn't the three yellows be different species instead of varieties. it doesn't matter to me if they are called species or varieties, it just seems a bit various that different orchids in different parts of the world seem to have a different basis for being called a species or a variety... just that wherever there are two different persons there will be different interpretations of things


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