# rarest slipper....



## dodidoki (Sep 8, 2011)

Any tips???
My experience: I got cyp. suptropicum for 150 USD ( recently I saw it for 2500 USD, but for today absolutely disappeared). I look for paph. wentworthianum and bougainvilleanum for 5 years: invain......I was searching for micranthum album, recently I got it for 500 USD.....Slippper collecting is a horror!!!!!!!


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## paphioboy (Sep 8, 2011)

Are you serious..??? For a price of that one paph, I could have hundreds of more common species..!


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## dodidoki (Sep 8, 2011)

My dream is a wentworthianum.....I would give away all my collection for one wentworthianum....I'm crazy, maybe you say.....


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## eggshells (Sep 8, 2011)

dodidoki said:


> My dream is a wentworthianum.....I would give away all my collection for one wentworthianum....I'm crazy, maybe you say.....



Mine is adductum and anitum.


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## tenman (Sep 8, 2011)

dodidoki said:


> Any tips???
> My experience: I got cyp. suptropicum for 150 USD ( recently I saw it for 2500 USD, but for today absolutely disappeared). I look for paph. wentworthianum and bougainvilleanum for 5 years: invain......I was searching for micranthum album, recently I got it for 500 USD.....Slippper collecting is a horror!!!!!!!



You got a deal on the micranthum album...the only one I've ever known available here was $2000.


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## paphioboy (Sep 9, 2011)

tenman said:


> You got a deal on the micranthum album...the only one I've ever known available here was $2000.



Slipper people are obviously :crazy:


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## biothanasis (Sep 9, 2011)

Hehe...!!! I think someone is addicted...


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## NYEric (Sep 9, 2011)

I could get a better deal for the micranthum album; but I still have my limits. I would have a hard time buying that and then if it died!..:sob:
Anyway, the most expensive slipper I've ever dealt with is the WHITE St. Ouen that was $1500 a division!!!


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## Justin (Sep 9, 2011)

i'm sad to say i've killed a $500 division before. very painful experience. But i've paid a lot more than that for other divisons so until i kill a four-figure plant i guess i'm OK.


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## NYEric (Sep 9, 2011)

Call me right before that day so I can set up the videocam to get the reactions.  I felt terrible when I killed a $150 division of the red Waunakee Sunset from Chuck Acker.


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## eggshells (Sep 9, 2011)

I like the white pouch micranthum. Is it really hard to take care of theses guys. I was planning to get one.


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## nikv (Sep 9, 2011)

For years and years I have a self-imposed limit of 40 USD for an orchid. I eventually raised it to 50 USD. My limit is currently at 100 USD, which I only have done once. I find that I can enjoy the flowers of lesser-expensive orchids just as much as the high priced ones. And I don't have to fret so much over losing them. In other words, I still have all my hair.


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## tocarmar (Sep 9, 2011)

The most expensive plant I bought was a $150.00 Roth. I killed it in less than a year!!  My budget is in the toilet due to my health & not able to work (since mid Feb)..
What I would love to get is the mottled leaf Cyps!!!!!!


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## likespaphs (Sep 9, 2011)

i convinced my boss to spend a whole lot of cash on a plant that i also killed....
we don't bring it up


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## John Boy (Sep 9, 2011)

tenman said:


> You got a deal on the micranthum album...the only one I've ever known available here was $2000.



I don't think it's the problem finding these plants and buying them, it's about finding a mic. albino that grows happyly and doesn't spend its days fading away, like most of them do.

And as to being willing to give away a lot for one plant: This here would be my fate:


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## Justin (Sep 9, 2011)

Aside from seedlings I've grown up from flask, with passing time and diminishing space I am more interested in the more expensive divisions. Instead of buying mulitple plants throughout the year I just save up and pay for an expensive plant once a year or two.

I still love the diversity and thrill of growing out different paph seedlings though--they are all unique and special. It's the diversity that makes paphs so cool.


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## gonewild (Sep 9, 2011)

John Boy said:


> And as to being willing to give away a lot for one plant: This here would be my fate:



You got your money's worth! really cool now what is it?


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## John Boy (Sep 9, 2011)

It's Jerrys Bulbo. beccarii. Plants like that, or of that size you'll only see in Borneo, The Eric Young Foundation... or @ OrchidsLtd. All others come as single leaf (sometimes 2 leaf shredder-like-cuttings), knocked into a bock until they fit, basically doomed to die before they arrive anywhere.


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## Roth (Sep 9, 2011)

John Boy said:


> I don't think it's the problem finding these plants and buying them, it's about finding a mic. albino that grows happyly and doesn't spend its days fading away, like most of them do.



In a hurry, many micranthum album sold are fake ones, they are green leafed micranthum from a specific colony. So far nearly all the ones that were sold in Germany and bloomed were absolutely not album. I don't know for those that did not bloom, but I would suspect it is the same, just that maybe they will luckily die before the buyer realize...

Real album are more rare, and the high quality ones are very rare. But not that expensive, a very selected one in Japan will sell for a thousand USD a mature blooming size growth division.

Wentworthianum, I still have some, not for sale, but the source vanished in the Solomons a couple years ago.


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## NYEric (Sep 9, 2011)

eggshells said:


> I like the white pouch micranthum. Is it really hard to take care of theses guys. I was planning to get one.



Are you talking about micranthum v. Eburneum?


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## eggshells (Sep 9, 2011)

NYEric said:


> Are you talking about micranthum v. Eburneum?



Yes that's the one that I'm talking about. I like the leaf even if it doesn't bloom. I'll still enjoy it.


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## Rick (Sep 9, 2011)

Roth said:


> Wentworthianum, I still have some, not for sale, but the source vanished in the Solomons a couple years ago.



Have you been breeding them?

Dennis D'alessandro had some maybe 5 or so years ago (after getting out of jail in Borneo!!), but I don't think he has any left.


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## Paul (Sep 10, 2011)

mine is probably micranthum var. albescens... bought as a var. album (not that expensive or I won't have bought it) in Germany (yes it's of my plant I suppose Xavier is talking about lol), close to album, nice and very good growing plant!!


But appart to Paphs, I have paid much more for Cattleya violacea semi-alba and coerulea...


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## ronan (Sep 10, 2011)

John Boy said:


> It's Jerrys Bulbo. beccarii. Plants like that, or of that size you'll only see in Borneo, The Eric Young Foundation... or @ OrchidsLtd. All others come as single leaf (sometimes 2 leaf shredder-like-cuttings), knocked into a bock until they fit, basically doomed to die before they arrive anywhere.



i trade my wife for jerry's beccarii, and he gets my sister as free gift!!! amazing plant,really incredible.
but nice beccarii can be found in europe. forget the single leaf one as it will takes years to recover. usually you buy 2leaves cutting (no way to start from seedlings) and a start and if good care in one year, the newest leaf have to be the size of the two first. people and sellers don't know how togrow these,that's why you only find poor stuff. you have to put sphagnum one the center of the leaves and keep it wet...it grows fast under good care


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## NYEric (Sep 10, 2011)

eggshells said:


> Yes that's the one that I'm talking about. I like the leaf even if it doesn't bloom. I'll still enjoy it.


 I know someone who had pots of v. Eburneum growing on their floor. If I come across a good supply I'll send you some. 



ronan said:


> i trade my wife for jerry's beccarii, and he gets my sister as free gift!!! amazing plant,really incredible.


You know she knows how to use a knife, dont you!? :ninja:


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## polyantha (Sep 10, 2011)

Paph. intaniae, ooii, randsii and gigantifolium in BS are also very pricey (if you find them)


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## dodidoki (Sep 10, 2011)

dodidoki said:


> Any tips???
> My experience: I got cyp. suptropicum for 150 USD ( recently I saw it for 2500 USD, but for today absolutely disappeared). I look for paph. wentworthianum and bougainvilleanum for 5 years: invain......I was searching for micranthum album, recently I got it for 500 USD.....Slippper collecting is a horror!!!!!!!



Some of you asked me about micr. glanzenianum. Here are few picture of my rarities:
Micranthum album, phrag. vittatum, cyp. suptropicum


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## SlipperKing (Sep 10, 2011)

I'm looking for a simple Ole sangii but they have become rare apparently!


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## cnycharles (Sep 10, 2011)

SlipperKing said:


> I'm looking for a simple Ole sangii but they have become rare apparently!



mount prospect orchids has them on their list (brooklyn) though it may be an old list


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## SlipperKing (Sep 10, 2011)

cnycharles said:


> mount prospect orchids has them on their list (brooklyn) though it may be an old list



Thanks Charles


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## tocarmar (Sep 10, 2011)

dodidoki said:


> Some of you asked me about micr. glanzenianum. Here are few picture of my rarities:
> Micranthum album, phrag. vittatum, cyp. suptropicum



I think that Cyp. subtropicum looks sick you should send it to me!!!!  oke:


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## eggshells (Sep 10, 2011)

NYEric said:


> I know someone who had pots of v. Eburneum growing on their floor. If I come across a good supply I'll send you some.



Thanks Eric


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## dodidoki (Sep 11, 2011)

tocarmar said:


> I think that Cyp. subtropicum looks sick you should send it to me!!!!  oke:



Isn't sick at all..last grwth begins to turnn yellowish, at the base begins to emerge a new one...as all cyps do.


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## Roth (Sep 11, 2011)

Rick said:


> Have you been breeding them?
> 
> Dennis D'alessandro had some maybe 5 or so years ago (after getting out of jail in Borneo!!), but I don't think he has any left.



I think that they came from me, not directly however... Was in 2006 I think. I did not breed them yet, want to get them nice and beautiful, and anyway, Taiwan offers seedlings of fake ones ( they are mastersianum seedlings). I am not interested to discuss with anyone that I have real ones and they do not, etc... Wentworthianum must be kept very wet, very hot, very dark, very acid, like its relative bougainvilleanum, or they always die, except a very few individual plants. They must have dark green/black leaes.



SlipperKing said:


> I'm looking for a simple Ole sangii but they have become rare apparently!



Sangii is exceedingly easy to grow, but if they dry out too much, they are exceedingly prone to rot. 

That's why they disappeared from cultivation or nearly so. They prefer to be kept on the acid side as well. Before, fresh wild collected plants were available all the time in the trade, but if they dry out twice, they never establish and they die. After collection, they dry out, then they are potted and watered, they become plump and start root, that's fine. If they dry out a second time, they die. Wild plants can look like cultivated ones ( like mastersianum), but I have not seen many blooming size sangii or mastersianum from seed ( just a few anecdotal ones).

A very, very recent photo for fun:


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## JeanLux (Sep 11, 2011)

Are all of those collected sangiis?? Jean


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## Roth (Sep 11, 2011)

JeanLux said:


> Are all of those collected sangiis?? Jean



I am afraid so... Sangii is extremely common in the wild so far. Picture taken in Sulawesii one box 60x40x30 full. The collector was packing another 3 boxes.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Paphiopedilum-sangii-/260850397941?pt=DE_Haus_Garten_Garten_Blumen_Pflanzen&hash=item3cbbe532f5#ht_983wt_1139

As you can see, I never lie, that ebay offer is a plant from that same batch. As I said too they look 'not too collected' when they are potted with a tag, but the old leaves tell it all. From a few dollars to 70 euros. And that plant offered was a piece of crap, most of the plants I have seen had leaves about double size.

Of course if you prefer fresh wild mastersianum that's here:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Paphiopedilum-mastersianum-Orchid-Plant-/280709402000?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Garden_PlantsSeedsBulbs_JN&hash=item415b958d90#ht_500wt_969

Or, why not,. violascens? 
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Paphiopedilum-violascens-/250888983661?pt=DE_Haus_Garten_Garten_Blumen_Pflanzen&hash=item3a6a26146d#ht_965wt_1185

All guaranteed collected.


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## Rick (Sep 11, 2011)

Roth said:


> I think that they came from me, not directly however... Was in 2006 I think. I did not breed them yet, want to get them nice and beautiful, and anyway, Taiwan offers seedlings of fake ones ( they are mastersianum seedlings). I am not interested to discuss with anyone that I have real ones and they do not, etc... Wentworthianum must be kept very wet, very hot, very dark, very acid, like its relative bougainvilleanum, or they always die, except a very few individual plants. They must have dark green/black leaes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



BTW is anyone getting tissue sample analysis of wild collected plants?


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## gonewild (Sep 11, 2011)

Rick said:


> BTW is anyone getting tissue sample analysis of wild collected plants?



To be of value the samples would need to be collected from wild plants before the plants are collected. Once collected the tissue values would deteriorate and any test would not show "wild" results.


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## Shiva (Sep 11, 2011)

The most I paid for a plant so far is $250 for a Phrag kovachii I bought three years ago and who's still about the same size (though completely renewed). I would only consider going in a four digit number if I planned to breed orchids, which is not the case.  I have no trouble going in the four digits every year, but for several orchids.


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## Roth (Sep 12, 2011)

gonewild said:


> To be of value the samples would need to be collected from wild plants before the plants are collected. Once collected the tissue values would deteriorate and any test would not show "wild" results.



Actually those packed plants were collected the day before, so they would qualify.... Locally sangii is exceedingly abundant.


Now, I was expecting a question that no one dare to ask. Where are those boxes going to?

Some are sold to resellers who sell individual plants, it is not a massive output however.

Most of the plants from those boxes go for another type of business...

Ever heard of that bashing about 'buy artificially propagated seedlings in flask'?

The sangii, violascens and mastersianum I have seen were in low bud (in the crown) for most of them. They were ordered from 3 collectors in 3 cities by a nursery doing paph flasks.

That's why people who love to buy 'art propagated' seedlings know nothing about the real story behind the flasks

If you look carefull at some flasks listing, there are batches of flasks of a certain species, suddenly available, with many different parents violascens #1 x #25, #52 x #84 etc... or zieckianum, or mastersianum. 

Those sangii will be used to make seed, flasks, and most will die or be discarded. That's all. People will buy flasks unknowingly that in fact those flasks costed a lot of wild plants, as I said before. And people will be very happy with those little seedlings in flasks because they 'saved the wild orchids' by buying 'art propagated seedlings'. In fact that's the opposite. 

More and more nurseries realize that selling wild plants is risky, and many people now want to get 'artificially propagated plants'. OK, so, because it's a business for the sellers, they arrange to make flasks. Anyone who is not stupid can see with pictures of such boxes, ordered, I repeat, by a large paph nursery selling flasks, that flask business can be as dirty as wild paph trade, if not much more (making flasks requires more wild plants in fact.. and because they have to bear seed caps with wild roots and leaves, most are sentenced to death). Small plants with clean leaves will be sold as seedlings, plants with blasted buds will be thrown away, and plants blooming killed to make quickly flasks.

sanderianum 7x14, 26x90cm,44564654x456465131234 ? But open your eyes, they are wild plants, collected fresh with the flower spike in the crown, to satisfy the new market, 'flasks'. That's something I find funny too, and I know exactly what I am talking about. Azadehdel, Kovach? OK they smuggled plants. 'Better to buy from a nursery doing flasks'? From some nurseries, yes, but from most, NO. Some of those flask business are way, way worse and more detrimental to any conservation than any smuggler, anywhere in the western world.


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## s1214215 (Sep 12, 2011)

I dont know how rare some of these are considered to be, but these are some of my flasks I am taking to Australia soon

Paphiopedilum anitum 'Chouyi #4' SM/TOGA x self
Paphiopedilum concolor var.longipesalum
Paphiopedilum emersonii var. huonglanae sib 'NO-2' x 'NO-1' 
Paphiopedilum gigantifolium ('Hsinying'SM/TOGA x 'Crown') 
Paphiopedilum randsii self
Paphiopedilum richardianum self S&C
Paphiopedilum sugiyamanum 'N0-1' sib
Paphiopedilum supardi self
Paphiopedilum stonei var. alba 'Formosa' CHM/TPS x self
Paphiopedilum toperi self
Paphiopedilum tranlienianum 
Paphiopedilum vejvarutianum
Paphiopedilum wenshanense fma. Album 'Yellow Sea' self
Paphiopedilum zieckianum 'No-2' x 'No-1'

Brett


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## SlipperKing (Sep 12, 2011)

Sweet list Brett. Now, swing by the US and we'll help deflask for you!


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## SlipperKing (Sep 12, 2011)

SlipperKing said:


> Thanks Charles



Note: They emailed me back......no plants left.


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## Ozpaph (Sep 12, 2011)

s1214215 said:


> I dont know how rare some of these are considered to be, but these are some of my flasks I am taking to Australia soon
> 
> 
> Brett



Where are you taking them to in Oz? Are you reselling or growing on for your self?


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## NYEric (Sep 12, 2011)

Thanks for the info Roth.  I wish people in Govt would be illuminated to these conditions. 
Brett, a couple of interesting plants on that list. I was surprised to see I have some of the others since I'm really not a species person!


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## eggshells (Sep 12, 2011)

s1214215 said:


> I dont know how rare some of these are considered to be, but these are some of my flasks I am taking to Australia soon
> 
> Paphiopedilum anitum 'Chouyi #4' SM/TOGA x self
> Paphiopedilum concolor var.longipesalum
> ...




Owww, Where did you get the anitum flask. I want one too. The stonei alba is worth of a mention too.


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## biothanasis (Sep 12, 2011)

GReat list of paphs!!!!


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## s1214215 (Sep 14, 2011)

Here are the sources. This us just a small sample of the more special flasks I got from them. I think I have about 40 paph flasks, mainly species with some oddball hybrids like thaianum x hangianum, thaianum x Chouyi Green Apple, Thaianum x anitum etc.

Paphiopedilum anitum 'Chouyi #4' SM/TOGA x self (from Chouyi Orchids, TW)
Paphiopedilum concolor var.longipesalum (Phrao Orchids, Chiangmai Thailand)
Paphiopedilum emersonii var. huonglanae sib 'NO-2' x 'NO-1' (Hung Sheng, TW)
Paphiopedilum gigantifolium ('Hsinying'SM/TOGA x 'Crown') (Formosa Orchids, TW)
Paphiopedilum randsii self (Formosa Orchids, TW)
Paphiopedilum richardianum self S&C (Hung Sheng, TW)
Paphiopedilum sugiyamanum 'N0-1' sib (Formosa Orchids, TW)
Paphiopedilum supardi self (Hung Sheng , TW)
Paphiopedilum stonei var. alba 'Formosa' CHM/TPS x self (Formosa Orchids, TW)
Paphiopedilum toperi self (Hung Sheng , TW)
Paphiopedilum tranlienianum (Hung Sheng , TW)
Paphiopedilum vejvarutianum (a friend of mine here in Bangkok, will have more flasks in a few months)
Paphiopedilum wenshanense fma. Album 'Yellow Sea' self (Hung Sheng , TW)
Paphiopedilum zieckianum 'No-2' x 'No-1' (Hung Sheng , TW)

Send me a PM and I can give you the suppliers emails and websites. Chouyi Orchids, and Hung Sheng are on Facebook too.


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## s1214215 (Sep 14, 2011)

Hi Ozpaph.. 

I am moving back to Brisbane. This is me seed stock for an eventual nursery, but I dont plan to sell many of these until they are larger and some until I have bloomed them out.. Jeez, will have to be patient of some of them. 

Oh, yes thanks for the offer Rick hahha.. nice try.. 

Brett


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## SlipperFan (Sep 14, 2011)

s1214215 said:


> Hi Ozpaph..
> 
> I am moving back to Brisbane. This is me seed stock for an eventual nursery, but I dont plan to sell many of these until they are larger and some until I have bloomed them out.. Jeez, will have to be patient of some of them. ...
> Brett



Maybe by the time you are ready to sell these, we'll have better world trade conditions ... always hopeful!


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## s1214215 (Sep 14, 2011)

Hi Dot

We can only hope

Brett


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## Ozpaph (Sep 16, 2011)

s1214215 said:


> Hi Ozpaph..
> 
> I am moving back to Brisbane. This is me seed stock for an eventual nursery, but I dont plan to sell many of these until they are larger and some until I have bloomed them out.. Jeez, will have to be patient of some of them.
> 
> ...



We might be neighbours!!!
Should have a coffee sometime and talk slippers.


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## s1214215 (Sep 22, 2011)

Sure.. will do

Brett


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