# A rose by any other name.... tigrinum?



## quietaustralian (Sep 13, 2011)

For many years I've pronounced tigrinum ... tig ri num but I find that I'm often corrected. Most often I'm told the pronunciation should be Ty ger i num (with the i sounding like the i in tiger and not the i  in tigris ie Panthera tigris (Tiger) which is similar to the (i) in big.

How do you pronounce tigrinum?


Regards and thanks, Mick


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## cnycharles (Sep 13, 2011)

I think i've always heard and said tie grie num or tie grih num


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## quietaustralian (Sep 13, 2011)

cnycharles said:


> I think i've always heard and said tie grie num or tie grih num



Yes, that's how I've heard it said most often but I do wonder why?

I wonder if Koopowitz meant it to be pronounced that way (similar to tiger) or more like the Latin form of tigris ( pronounced something like tee-grihs).

Regards, Mick


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## Sirius (Sep 13, 2011)

Tie grih num

This one for me as well. Of course, I am the only person I have ever heard say it out loud.


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## Marc (Sep 13, 2011)

Sirius said:


> Tie grih num
> 
> This one for me as well. Of course, I am the only person I have ever heard say it out loud.



Same here


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## Shiva (Sep 13, 2011)

Far too many people speak latin in English.


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## Sirius (Sep 13, 2011)

Somebody get Cribb or Koopowitz to write a book with the proper pronunciations of every orchid genera and species. Then we can all be proper. Or pissed off that they chose a pronunciation we don't agree with. :rollhappy:

Until then, it's tie-grih-num and neo-fin-et-ia and wars-suh-wick-zee-anum-ay-pal-ooza-docious.

Ok, I made that last one up.


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## gonewild (Sep 13, 2011)

quietaustralian said:


> For many years I've pronounced tigrinum ... tig ri num but I find that I'm often corrected.
> How do you pronounce tigrinum?



I think you are correct. But it will depend on what strength and sound you put on the letters.

I would sound "ri" ree but someone else might sound it "rye"


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## Shiva (Sep 13, 2011)

You don't need a book of pronunciation. You only have to pronounce the names as they were and are given in latin. Then no matter what language we speak, we will always pronounce the names correctly. Wasn't it the reason in the first place for chosing latin? Latin was the universal language of science and still is in a very fundamental way.

As for learning latin pronunciation, there are many sites on Google, like this one:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A657272


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## biothanasis (Sep 13, 2011)

I agree with Shiva. Latin has raw pronounciation of the letters... I have heard a lot of times calling the Cymbidium -> Si-mbi-di-um, which is of course wrong, as in latin letter "c" stands for "k" in english...lol..... Similarly, Cyrtochilum is Ki-rto-chi-lum and not Si-rto-chi-lum.

And let's not forget the last syllables of the family names, as the -ceae syllable at the end of the name is pronounced here as "che" (like in cherry), influenced by italian language, but it is obviously pronounced "ke-ae", as every letter is pronounced in latin (there are some diphthongs though)... 

But as Sirious noted, let the experts find out what is right and wrong and then we follow...


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## quietaustralian (Sep 13, 2011)

gonewild said:


> I think you are correct. But it will depend on what strength and sound you put on the letters.
> 
> I would sound "ri" ree but someone else might sound it "rye"



Yes, that's how I pronounce it... tig ree num.




Shiva said:


> You don't need a book of pronunciation. You only have to pronounce the names as they were and are given in latin. Then no matter what language we speak, we will always pronounce the names correctly. Wasn't it the reason in the first place for chosing latin? Latin was the universal language of science and still is in a very fundamental way.
> 
> As for learning latin pronunciation, there are many sites on Google, like this one:
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A657272




In the case of tigrinum there is no problem as it is from Latin.

Problems occurs when a plant has been named after a person, a name "Latinised". 

Regards, Mick


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## Shiva (Sep 13, 2011)

The rule is still the same as in Paph. wardii with the accent put on dee or Paph. chamberlainianum. The name of the person is only latinised at the end. Think again of Paph. emersonii (emersonee with the accent in the last syllable. Or fowleyee. 
Once you understand the underlying principle, it becomes easy.


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## gonewild (Sep 13, 2011)

And some people just grow orekuds.


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## nikv (Sep 13, 2011)

I've been waiting for someone to say that it's prounced mar-kee-a-num. But that's topic for a different discussion. 

As to pronunciation, I've had an ongoing debate with a friend over the proper pronunciation of Vuylstekeara. Any guesses?


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## gonewild (Sep 13, 2011)

nikv said:


> I've been waiting for someone to say that it's prounced mar-kee-a-num. But that's topic for a different discussion.
> 
> As to pronunciation, I've had an ongoing debate with a friend over the proper pronunciation of Vuylstekeara. Any guesses?



Not meant to be repeated.


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## Sirius (Sep 13, 2011)

I am an American, and therefore too arrogant and lazy to learn latin. So my pronunciation is always right, even when it is wrong, no matter what anyone says. :rollhappy:

I can't even trust people from other english speaking countries, like England, to help me out. I mean, have you heard how they say garage? Ghastly. 

[YOUTUBE]I7e_zCpw08A[/YOUTUBE]


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## Shiva (Sep 13, 2011)

Sirius said:


> I am an American, and therefore too arrogant and lazy to learn latin. So my pronunciation is always right, even when it is wrong, no matter what anyone says. :rollhappy:




I know! Top of the food chain!


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## goldenrose (Sep 14, 2011)

Sirius said:


> I am an American, and therefore too arrogant and lazy to learn latin. So my pronunciation is always right, even when it is wrong, no matter what anyone says.


:clap::clap:I'm with you, well not sure about the arrogant part ...
anyway then thank you for confirming my pronunciation is correct -
ty grin um!


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## quietaustralian (Sep 14, 2011)

Shiva said:


> The rule is still the same as in Paph. wardii with the accent put on dee or Paph. chamberlainianum. The name of the person is only latinised at the end. Think again of Paph. emersonii (emersonee with the accent in the last syllable. Or fowleyee.
> Once you understand the underlying principle, it becomes easy.



Yes, but by "Latinising" a word, it gets away from a universal pronunciation standard.

Two other examples of names that people often correct me on are; Paph canhii and Paph tranlienianum. 

In conversation I refer to canhii as Kang-ii and tranlienianum as chan lien ianum.

btw. How does Michael Ooi pronounce his name?


Regards, Mick


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## Shiva (Sep 14, 2011)

If you learn to speak a second or third language, like French, German or Spanish, won't you strive to get the best pronunciation possible? Won't you feel proud when you're complemented for your knowledge of this foreign language? I was born in a Quebec area 100% french speaking. My English professors were Diana Rigg, Patrick Macnee and the crew of the original starship Enterprise on television. I spent a lifetime learning to speak it and write it better and better and last spring, an english speaking orchid judge asked me if I was coming from England.  Wow! I felt I had arrived at last.

Why shouldn't I strive to do the same with orchid names. After all this is my favorite hobby! There are exceptions in any language and situations never foreseen. We have to adapt.


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## mormodes (Sep 14, 2011)

Shiva said:


> I was born in a Quebec area 100% french speaking. My English professors were [snip] the crew of the original starship Enterprise on television.



Interesting. Inspector Gamache the detective in Louise Penny's mystery series says the same thing. His only English was 'fire torpedoes' and 'Klingons decloaking' 

(No jokes about Klingons around Uranus, please)


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## Shiva (Sep 14, 2011)

When I was a child, I thought that the english word for smell was ''sniff''. That's what dogs did in comic strips. :rollhappy:


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