# Tigers, lions, bears shot after US zoo escape



## quietaustralian (Oct 21, 2011)

I guess this story has been around the world a few times but if the news article I read is to be believed, I wonder how a guy that has been charged with animal cruelty 11 times in 5 years was allowed to keep these animals. What were the government thinking?

I read some time ago that there are 4000 tigers in private hands in Texas alone, many of them hybrids. How long before we only have "ex situ" tigers?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-10-20/freed-animals-cause-panic-in-ohio/3580374

Mick


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## SlipperKing (Oct 21, 2011)

Yea Mick sad deal here with Terry. He graduated two years ahead of me. I don't think the neighbors where real happy with him having so many animals that they were constantly calling the authorities on him. His passion for animals was like ours with orchids...it got out of control! He wasn't set up like a zoo with lots of people to help out and things got out of control real quick so they were bound to find something to fine him on. His place was (is) about 2 miles down the road from my old high school and my cousin lives across the road from the school so it could be a bit freaky at night with all the animal noises! The story goes; he had just gotten out of prison on gun charges and his wife threw divorce papers on him. He released the animals and put a bullet in his head. He use to be a gum dealer and let his licence expire. The ATF came in with a search warrent and got him with ilegal weapons stored in his basement.


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## Clark (Oct 21, 2011)

Messy.


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## Shiva (Oct 21, 2011)

Sad story for the man and the animals.


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## Lanmark (Oct 21, 2011)

My heart broke when I heard of all the killing.

Messy life. Legal strife. Angry wife. Sensationalism rife. Fatal decisions. Panicked citizens. The sheriff's testosterone surged. Jack Hanna was present, his media-fed ego in full blown "expert" mode and fully in support of said sheriff's Quick Draw McGraw mentality. Those beautiful creatures were doomed right from the start. It's a wonder six of them managed to survive mankind's self-centered folly.


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## Rick (Oct 21, 2011)

quietaustralian said:


> What were the government thinking?
> 
> Mick



No winning for loosing. Too much CITES but unregulated tigers in municipalities!

A lot of these same local governments that allow large cats have bans on keeping large constrictor or venomous snakes.

The "government" has very little consistency across the country. For all the blowing and going about excess Federal control in the US, an individual can usually find a sympathetic locality to get away with just about anything. "The Fed" really has limited authority and local government can be just as crazy as the individuals in their communities.


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## goldenrose (Oct 21, 2011)

SAD ... SAD .... SAD
so many of us share the same thoughts, how on earth were these animals left on that property? All the counts of animal abuse then combined with the fact that the guy ends up in prison, who's taking care of the animals, he wasn't when he wasn't in jail! One has to wonder what kind of person the wife is? How could she let this happen to the animals? I can't stand to watch the TV programs with the animal hoarders or animal cops, in the majority of cases other family members are aware of how 'sick' the individual is and why aren't they going to the authorities before it ever gets to this point?


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## Hera (Oct 21, 2011)

Lanmark said:


> My heart broke when I heard of all the killing.
> 
> Messy life. Legal strife. Angry wife. Sensationalism rife. Fatal decisions. Panicked citizens. The sheriff's testosterone surged. Jack Hanna was present, his media-fed ego in full blown "expert" mode and fully in support of said sheriff's Quick Draw McGraw mentality. Those beautiful creatures were doomed right from the start. It's a wonder six of them managed to survive mankind's self-centered folly.



You have to understand how dangerous this situation was. Its not about testosterone, its about protecting the surrounding community. They tried to tranc one of the tigers and it got very agitated and ran away. There were too many animals to deal with in a short amount of time. Once the animals find hiding places people would surely have been hurt, including children and pets. Jack Hanna was just being realistic in his comments. If you want to blame someone, blame the owner, as he knew exactly what he was setting in motion when he opened the cages. I believe he didn't want the animals to outlive him, he just couldn't bring himself to kill them himself. If he wanted them to survive, he would have contacted the exwife. I'm not trying to berate you, I just think this needs to be said. Its easy to criticize when you're not the one on the scene making the decisions, and many people have been critical. Think what would have happened if somebody's child was hurt the next morning. Then the criticism would have been that the police didn't move quickly enough. Please excuse the rant, but your comments opened up an opportunity for me to state the other side and btw I do have some inside info on this.


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## Lanmark (Oct 21, 2011)

Hera said:


> You have to understand how dangerous this situation was. Its not about testosterone, its about protecting the surrounding community. They tried to tranc one of the tigers and it got very agitated and ran away. There were too many animals to deal with in a short amount of time. Once the animals find hiding places people would surely have been hurt, including children and pets. Jack Hanna was just being realistic in his comments. If you want to blame someone, blame the owner, as he knew exactly what he was setting in motion when he opened the cages. I believe he didn't want the animals to outlive him, he just couldn't bring himself to kill them himself. If he wanted them to survive, he would have contacted the exwife. I'm not trying to berate you, I just think this needs to be said. Its easy to criticize when you're not the one on the scene making the decisions, and many people have been critical. Think what would have happened if somebody's child was hurt the next morning. Then the criticism would have been that the police didn't move quickly enough. Please excuse the rant, but your comments opened up an opportunity for me to state the other side and btw I do have some inside info on this.


I don't disagree with you about the danger of this situation. Read my comments again please. I criticized everyone involved. I also acknowledged the panicked citizens. I made note of the media frenzy. I criticized mankind in general for putting our own needs above every other species on the planet. I'm ashamed to be human today. You are free to disagree with me.

Messy life, legal strife, angry wife, fatal decisions: all refer to the man who owned these animals, a man who did not conduct his affairs in a manner in which the care of these animals could be placed first and foremost at all times. Animal ownership is a HUGE responsibility! He deliberately failed at the end.

Yes, people were in danger! Yes, something drastic had to be done! _The death of some of these animals was in fact unavoidable_, but the death of 49 of them only goes to show how the almighty human life has been elevated in value above every other creature on the planet. I happen to think we aren't that special as a species. We just assume we are.

People could have stayed indoors until a larger team of animal capture experts could be assembled. There could have been a mandatory enforced curfew for a couple of days, but such a thing is not realistic in the human mind. Americans are much too important to be inconvenienced for a day or two. Our daily routine must go on. It was simply too much to ask people to change their lives and routines for a few days until more of these animals were safely hunted down.

Our modern way of life demanded an immediate solution to the mess we alone had created. Our self-imposed importance mandated that we dared not allow a single frightened animal to harm a single member of our negligent society. There are 7 billion of us smothering this planet because we all feel entitled to be here, use and abuse the place, and to recklessly procreate in the process.

We caused a bad situation with exotic animals where all the animals were in danger and some of us were in danger too. Politics demanded that we end the danger to the humans at once and at the cost of animal life. That little sheriff in his little Ohio hat of authority was positively brimming with macho fever whether or not anyone cares to admit it, and Jack Hanna has been acting like he's been on a 24 hour amphetamine drip for the past few decades. I'm just calling a spade a spade.

Nobody wanted a small child getting mauled by a bengal tiger. I know that. My point is that this situation should have been resolved a long time ago before it got to this point. That's all I'm saying. That's my criticism. Humans created this artificial situation. Humans solved it in the heat of the moment at the expense of all other species. There's no denying the truth of the matter.


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## Hera (Oct 21, 2011)

Thanks for a lively discussion and hearing my viewpoint, as I have heard yours. My biggest point of grief is the loss of irreplaceble endangered animals.


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## Lanmark (Oct 21, 2011)

Hera said:


> Thanks for a lively discussion and hearing my viewpoint, as I have heard yours. My biggest point of grief is the loss of irreplaceble endangered animals.



Mine too! :wink:


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## SlipperFan (Oct 21, 2011)

Rick said:


> No winning for loosing. Too much CITES but unregulated tigers in municipalities!
> 
> A lot of these same local governments that allow large cats have bans on keeping large constrictor or venomous snakes.
> 
> The "government" has very little consistency across the country. For all the blowing and going about excess Federal control in the US, an individual can usually find a sympathetic locality to get away with just about anything. "The Fed" really has limited authority and local government can be just as crazy as the individuals in their communities.


Thank you, Rick, for making this clarification.

I think it should also be noted that this was not a Zoo, it was a private collection. 

In my opinion, there should be a Federal law that forbids private ownership of exotic animals. Period. They do belong in Public Zoos, or better -- in the wild.



Hera said:


> ...My biggest point of grief is the loss of irreplaceble endangered animals.


You got that right!


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## emydura (Oct 21, 2011)

SlipperFan said:


> Thank you, Rick, for making this clarification.
> 
> I think it should also be noted that this was not a Zoo, it was a private collection.
> 
> ...



I agree. I can't believe a private citizen would be allowed to own those animals. You certainly couldn't here.

The 18 Bengal tigers in particular is just tragic given there rarity. I think a little more could have been done to save those.

David


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## Rick (Oct 21, 2011)

Another point of note is that most of these animals most likely came from zoo or circus over-production. I worked in the zoo/aquarium biz (fish and herps, but saw it all. My wife was a pachyderm keeper). Big cats and hoof stock breed like crazy in captivity, and big cats in particular are very expensive to support. They are generally antisocial, and eat nothing but meat. Zoo's generally run on shoe string budgets, so uneasy alliances with private distributors just kind of happen to help pay the bills. I got out of the biz about 15+ years ago, but even at that time it was a major point of contention that most zoo production was heading into private collection since there was nowhere else to go with it. Spay/Neuter or other forms of birth control was being practiced by the more responsible zoos, but a lot of stuff would end up at shooting ranches in Texas.

There are a handful of private collectors that do take good responsible care of their animals, but its a major investment when it comes to the big stuff.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Oct 21, 2011)

Its true. Bengal tigers are highly endangered in the wild....but are very common in captivity. There are way more tigers, of all subspecies, that exist in captivity than in the wild. What happened was a tragedy, and like everyone else I wish that those animals could have been recaptured. But its not likely that the average cop in rural Ohio is going to have immediate access to tranquilizer darts. Those cops did what they had to do under those circumstances...I really don't think that they had much of a choice. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to be in their shoes, and if anyone is to blame for this, its certainly not them.


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## emydura (Oct 21, 2011)

Rick said:


> Another point of note is that most of these animals most likely came from zoo or circus over-production. I worked in the zoo/aquarium biz (fish and herps, but saw it all. My wife was a pachyderm keeper). Big cats and hoof stock breed like crazy in captivity, and big cats in particular are very expensive to support. They are generally antisocial, and eat nothing but meat. Zoo's generally run on shoe string budgets, so uneasy alliances with private distributors just kind of happen to help pay the bills. I got out of the biz about 15+ years ago, but even at that time it was a major point of contention that most zoo production was heading into private collection since there was nowhere else to go with it. Spay/Neuter or other forms of birth control was being practiced by the more responsible zoos, but a lot of stuff would end up at shooting ranches in Texas.
> 
> There are a handful of private collectors that do take good responsible care of their animals, but its a major investment when it comes to the big stuff.



Given that they are almost extinct in the wild, should there be more effort for zoos to get these excess tigers released in their natural environment rather than give them cowboy private citizens? There is a lot of collabaration between various zoos around the world to maintain the genetic diversity of tigers but I now wonder what is the point if they are just selling their excess stock to the private sector as they do not know what to do with them. Surely the end goal is to get viable populations back in the wild.

David


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## Roth (Oct 22, 2011)

Rick said:


> Another point of note is that most of these animals most likely came from zoo or circus over-production. I worked in the zoo/aquarium biz (fish and herps, but saw it all.  My wife was a pachyderm keeper).



Mmmh... That's why she married you ??? :evil:



> Big cats and hoof stock breed like crazy in captivity, and big cats in particular are very expensive to support. They are generally antisocial, and eat nothing but meat. Zoo's generally run on shoe string budgets, so uneasy alliances with private distributors just kind of happen to help pay the bills. I got out of the biz about 15+ years ago, but even at that time it was a major point of contention that most zoo production was heading into private collection since there was nowhere else to go with it. Spay/Neuter or other forms of birth control was being practiced by the more responsible zoos, but a lot of stuff would end up at shooting ranches in Texas.



In France I worked at the customs for many years, and I happened to have been a friend of Alain Bonneau, both a veterinary and the director of the CITES office in France for a long time. He reported exactly the same to me, the big cat styles breed like normal street cat, and at a point, no one knows what to do with them ( at that time it was illegal to neuter them, as they were App I CITES, and under the old EU regulations of those days, it was not possible to harm anything from the App I... this included neutering...). They end up with many euthanasia, selling surplus to private zoos ( and in France we have a few privately owned zoos that were first class, like Thoiry...).

People do not realize how common it is to get tiger ( even white tiger, giant tiger, Siberian Tiger, etc...) cubs in zoos, there are simply too many. And many zoos, when the animals are in heat, let them breed to be peaceful or that's hell in the zoo... giving the next generation... The same happens with some of the parrots too ( though it is easier to control), and some reptiles.



emydura said:


> Given that they are almost extinct in the wild, should there be more effort for zoos to get these excess tigers released in their natural environment rather than give them cowboy private citizens? There is a lot of collabaration between various zoos around the world to maintain the genetic diversity of tigers but I now wonder what is the point if they are just selling their excess stock to the private sector as they do not know what to do with them. Surely the end goal is to get viable populations back in the wild.
> 
> David



No, because the source of most of the parental stock from most zoos, including public ones, is very, very 'bleak'. We followed up the path of a couple of things ( Komodo varan, some giant turtles, and even some lions) in France. We found an honorable zoo was importing/getting them from a quite honorable source. Then, following the path, like for many plants in botanical gardens, we ended up in the poacher/smuggler world being the source. How you want to trust them for the real source of those animals? Now we have DNA testing, but even so, it would be tremendous task to type all the various types, races and populations, and reintroduce those.

I was very interested in Komodo varans in those days, because the two legal sellers were quite strange. Well, they got them from a poacher group in Indonesia for quite a lot of them ( some came from San Diego Zoo breeding program though, but really few, and the papers were split, one imported from SD zoo, 4-5 resold...). I know some of those sellers from this ring. The poachers knew that it is way easier to get Komodo varan from the remote colonies of Flores, there are some in Ambon as well. So they are disjunct populations. If you reintroduce captive bred Komodo one day, they will be hybrid of those populations, for sure. That would be the same problem as the Galapagos turtles varieties...

The other problem we had too at that time were diseases, including viruses, that had attacked those animals in captivity, sometimes the cubs. Many of those disease (including Borrelia) were not deadly immediately, but there. How could anyone guarantee that, let's say, tigers cubs fed by a mother who ate a pig contaminated with a pig virus, are not going to carry on the virus, then back to the wild? There are many major concerns against reintroduction in the wild ( especially big cats, they have been found to be sensitive to many, if not nearly all, the domestic cat disease, including FIV, etc...).

About the tranquilizer darts, they are exceedingly difficult to use, and some species can have an highly erratic behavior. The customs in France and Czech republic got several major issues with tranquilizer that did make the animals become raving mad. 

For humans too, the french Police ordered some containers of Capstun, a kind of tear spray that supposedly stops the people. Well, they made trials, and some people were immobilized. Some could use it as a deo spray. And some became out of control, with an unimaginable strenght and craziness. Those were usually people suffering from schizophrenia, some people who had strokes, and some people from specific populations. All the subjects from some former USSR countries, could not care less, we tried, and genetically they were definitely nearly totally insensitive.


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## Ozpaph (Oct 22, 2011)

We, unfortunately, live in a world were too many abrogate their personal responsibilities.


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## Rick (Oct 22, 2011)

emydura said:


> Given that they are almost extinct in the wild, should there be more effort for zoos to get these excess tigers released in their natural environment rather than give them cowboy private citizens? There is a lot of collabaration between various zoos around the world to maintain the genetic diversity of tigers but I now wonder what is the point if they are just selling their excess stock to the private sector as they do not know what to do with them. Surely the end goal is to get viable populations back in the wild.
> 
> David



Unfortunately very little habitat left in the wild to release too. Humans have encroached into the most remote places in the the world, and big cats end up perceived as direct competitors to humans when they move in. There was a wolf protection campaign in the US and captive raised wolves were released into state/federal parks. They have been extremely successful, but not that some collateral damage of adjacent ranch cattle has been observed, the ranchers are mounting a huge anti wolf campaign to start a new eradication program. 

When I was in zoo's the keepers made up a program called "Bowling for Rhinos". To raise money for purchase and support of game preserves in native countries. Since I worked in herps, I didn't have has much issue selling our production into the public pet trade, and wanted to use that money for the same purpose, but upper admin just took the profit and put into the general animal purchase fund. Actually there are lots of protected game preserves in developing countries, but the rangers need lots of firepower to keep up with the poachers, and that seems to be where the $ shortfall is when it comes to the big animal species.


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## ohio-guy (Oct 22, 2011)

Ohio's last Gov, Strickland, had placed a temporary ban on the trade of exotic animals in Ohio before he left office. The new Gov, Kasick, (who I think is an idiot who caters to the elite 1%) let it expire, for what ever reason. Then he gets on the news and says "why didn't anyone address this before?" (duh!....his predecessor from the other party did!)
I am sure it is more complicated than that, and as with many things, there is blame to spread all around. People complain about big Government, but when the s#!t hits the fan, we all want to be protected.


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## Hera (Oct 22, 2011)

ohio-guy said:


> Ohio's last Gov, Strickland, had placed a temporary ban on the trade of exotic animals in Ohio before he left office. The new Gov, Kasick, (who I think is an idiot who caters to the elite 1%) let it expire, for what ever reason. Then he gets on the news and says "why didn't anyone address this before?" (duh!....his predecessor from the other party did!)
> I am sure it is more complicated than that, and as with many things, there is blame to spread all around. People complain about big Government, but when the s#!t hits the fan, we all want to be protected.



Thank you. BTW did you see that he passed an emergency animal bill. Publicity whore.


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## SlipperFan (Oct 22, 2011)

Yea, and the Michigan (conservative) legislature is trying to pass a bill that would loosen the restrictions we currently have on owning exotic animals. Idiots.


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## SlipperKing (Oct 22, 2011)

Just saw a new update. Terry was trading firearms for animals One other note: the authorities not only shot meat eaters but also giraffes, camels and who knows what else. Where was the immediate danger in these leaf eaters?


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## Lanmark (Oct 22, 2011)

SlipperKing said:


> Just saw a new update. Terry was trading firearms for animals One other note: the authorities not only shot meat eaters but also giraffes, camels and how knows what else. Where was the immediate danger in these leaf eaters?



There was an overabundance of testosterone and a Quick Draw McGraw mentality in play like I said before. Were human lives spared? Yes. Were some animal deaths unavoidable? Yes. Were too many animals needlessly killed? Most likely yes.


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## Clark (Oct 23, 2011)

I'm applauding the police for doing their job.


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## Rick (Oct 23, 2011)

SlipperKing said:


> Just saw a new update. Terry was trading firearms for animals One other note: the authorities not only shot meat eaters but also giraffes, camels and who knows what else. Where was the immediate danger in these leaf eaters?




Sounds like it turned into one of the Texas shooting ranges.


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## Lanmark (Oct 23, 2011)

Clark said:


> I'm applauding the police for doing their job.



Yep, they did their job...perhaps a little too well.

They always do their job, and their actions are always justified. 

I remember the time when I called the cops many years ago as I watched a group of teenagers vandalizing the Catholic school next door. The cops came. The kids denied doing the damage. The cops told the kids I was the one who had called. The cops left. The kids came to my house, hit me on the head with a large rock, trashed all my potted orchids on my deck and then left. Then they called the police and claimed that I had physically assaulted them. The police came. They didn't care about the massive bruise and cuts on my head. They didn't care about the vandalism to my property. They didn't check the kids for any physical harm. They didn't ask me what had happened. They didn't speak to the neighbors who had witnessed everything that had happened.They simply arrested me for assault. They held me in the city jail for 16 hours before the judge reprimanded them and cleared me of all charges. It was just another fine job done by the police who always claim they are justified in their actions. The city ended up paying me dearly for this arrest and denial of medical care.


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## goldenrose (Oct 24, 2011)

Lanmark said:


> Yep, they did their job...perhaps a little too well.
> They always do their job, and their actions are always justified.
> .... It was just another fine job done by the police who always claim they are justified in their actions. The city ended up paying me dearly for this arrest and denial of medical care.


That's awful, I'm not a sue happy person at all, but there are exceptions & this is one!



Rick said:


> Sounds like it turned into one of the Texas shooting ranges.


yep or - safari without going to Africa. I can understand the predators but a giraffe or camel?


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## cnycharles (Oct 24, 2011)

camels can spit  .. and I don't know what giraffes do, maybe bat their long eyelashes threateningly


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## Shiva (Oct 24, 2011)

Well what do you expect? Your former vice-president shot his friend in the face in a cage filled with lame birds, then his friend said it was his fault. When you have a v-p like that, don't ever call the cops. :evil:


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## Clark (Oct 24, 2011)

To give the giraffe or camel a bye, would not of been fair,
to the lions, tigers, and bears.


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## Hera (Oct 24, 2011)

Clark said:


> I'm applauding the police for doing their job.



Thank you. It's a much harder and complicated job than most can imagine. It's like doing brain surgery on a moving target.


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## Lanmark (Oct 25, 2011)

Hera said:


> Thank you. It's a much harder and complicated job than most can imagine. It's like doing brain surgery on a moving target.



It is, and yet some of the dumbest, most obstinate people I've ever met in my life have been police officers. There should be minimum IQ requirements and much higher standards overall.

Anyway, I'll give it a rest after this. I just want to say, "Great job, oh dear police officers! You too, Jack Hanna! When Bengal Tigers become extinct someday, your bravery and heroism will be remembered in the history books right along with the cowardice of Terry Thompson." 

Real heroes are measured by the brave and often self-sacrificing choices they make and not by the sizes of their hats or the number of bullets they manage to fire off at wildlife in the heat of the moment. Creative problem solving is apparently a dying art form in this nation, and doling out death from the barrel of a gun is far too often the quick and easy solution chosen by those in positions of authority.


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## Hera (Oct 25, 2011)

I thought this was an orchid forum?


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## Lanmark (Oct 25, 2011)

Hera said:


> I thought this was an orchid forum?



It is. This is the Off Topic Section. :wink:


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## NYEric (Oct 25, 2011)

I heard a little about this before I left but this is the first time I've had to see/hear the story. The actions by the police seem a little heavy-handed, but at least Jim-Bob can say he and Skeeter got some big game!  A very sad day. BTW, ferrets are exotic animals also!


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