# Paph. hainanense



## eggshells (Jan 31, 2015)

One of the compact growing barbata species. The plant is in a 4 inch community pot. Extra proud of this one as this is my *crop*. I have seen them grow from the bottle to flower. Cute flower and hoping the rest will follow soon.


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## mrhappyrotter (Jan 31, 2015)

That is very nice. I like small growers and foliage on this is really pretty, let alone the flower.


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## MorandiWine (Jan 31, 2015)

Great flowing, gorgeous plant and equally amazing photography!

tyler


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## troy (Jan 31, 2015)

I agree with the top 2 awesome!!!


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## papheteer (Jan 31, 2015)

Oh, Ibn... THAT's really nice!!! Is that one plant? The one that you gave me doesn't do much. I think i'll try to repot it in sphag. Great job on this one! I would be super proud too.


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## phraggy (Jan 31, 2015)

Thanks for showing this lovely plant and photographic skills.

Ed


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## Paul (Jan 31, 2015)

that's a nice flower!! well done


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## Migrant13 (Jan 31, 2015)

Beautiful. You must be psyched with this result. The foliage and flower are so attractive. Your are one hell of a photographer too!


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## John M (Jan 31, 2015)

Love the flower and the foliage is gorgeous! At first, I thought it was just one plant, from that flask less than 3 years ago! But, then I reread your post and saw that you said it was one of many plants in a community pot. You grew them really well. Congrats!


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## Ozpaph (Jan 31, 2015)

you have grown that superbly - well done!


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## Justin (Jan 31, 2015)

i can't believe that spike isn't staked! very nice. they are loving life in the compot.


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## jjkOC (Jan 31, 2015)

Wow, that is one uber-tall inflorescence. Great growing!


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## SlipperFan (Jan 31, 2015)

Wow--that is gorgeous!


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## NYEric (Jan 31, 2015)

Super nice. I want some!


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## 17andgrowing (Jan 31, 2015)

I too agree with the top two.


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## abax (Jan 31, 2015)

I have two of these and the leaves are quite a bit lighter
in color than your plant and neither have bloomed yet.
Can you provide a few pointers for proper culture. My
plants look quite healthy, but perhaps a tip or two might
help me bloom them.


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## Trithor (Feb 1, 2015)

A good uniformity to those seedlings. Always nice when they seem to grow uniformly and mature at a similar rate. Great growing!
Attractive bloom on a strong tall spike. Good petal width and attitude. The staminode is lit up like a bright green light in the center of the bloom. Interesting visual effect that is created by the green radiating out into the bloom and bordering the edge of the pouch. Lovely, congratulations on your success.


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## Stone (Feb 2, 2015)

Well Es, you have done exceedingly well again. And the more you post the better they are!! I think now would be a good time to remind us of your techinque and conditions??......:clap:


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## eggshells (Feb 2, 2015)

Thanks for the kind compliments.

As for culture. I treat everything the same. I grow them at intermediate temperatures. 17c-22c in winter and no higher than 30c in the summer. I keep it moist with fine bark, perlite and clay balls. Feed with low dose of fertilizer. I use .5 tsp per 5 gallon of water. Humidity is kinda low for my liking (only 30%-50% RH).

For fertilzer, I use plant prod. 

The N breakdown is as following:
Nitrate Nitrogen 3.0%
Ammoniacal Nitrogen 7.6%
Urea Nitrogen 14.4%

The ca/mg source is my tap water which has plenty of it.


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## John M (Feb 2, 2015)

Which Plant Prod formulation do you use? What is your water source? Thx.


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## eggshells (Feb 2, 2015)

Hi John, 25-10-10 but if its not available to me. I use the 20-20-20 version. 

I use tap water. Calcium and Magnesium ratio is 44:24 ppm.


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## SlipperKing (Feb 2, 2015)

Fantastic all around results. Please up date us when the flower is fully open.


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## Markhamite (Feb 2, 2015)

Love the colour and the pattern on the foliage.


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## Stone (Feb 3, 2015)

eggshells said:


> Thanks for the kind compliments.
> 
> As for culture. I treat everything the same. I grow them at intermediate temperatures. 17c-22c in winter and no higher than 30c in the summer. I keep it moist with fine bark, perlite and clay balls. Feed with low dose of fertilizer. I use .5 tsp per 5 gallon of water. Humidity is kinda low for my liking (only 30%-50% RH).
> 
> ...



Thanks eggshells. That says a lot. Do you water between feeds?


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## myxodex (Feb 3, 2015)

Beautiful plant and flower.

Also thanks for the cultural info,... I've been way too nervous about introducing some alkalinity in my water !


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## eggshells (Feb 3, 2015)

Thanks, I have forgotten to mention that I adjust the pH to 6. I use phosporic acid to do that. But citric acid might do the job as well.


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## Trithor (Feb 3, 2015)

I think I need to start paying attention to my water pH


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## eaborne (Feb 4, 2015)

Beautiful flower and outstanding photos. The leaves just "pop" right off the screen!


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## eggshells (Feb 4, 2015)

Stone said:


> Thanks eggshells. That says a lot. Do you water between feeds?



Mike, I feed every time I water.


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## Bjorn (Feb 5, 2015)

Should be approx 130ppm additional to what is in your water. Somewhat higher than I would have added- but in the ballpark. And totally agree, "feed weakly - weekly" should be rephased to "feed very weakly - always".


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## eggshells (Feb 5, 2015)

Hi Bjorn do you mean fertilizer ppm or just water ppm?


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## John M (Feb 5, 2015)

eggshells said:


> Hi John, 25-10-10 but if its not available to me. I use the 20-20-20 version.
> 
> I use tap water. Calcium and Magnesium ratio is 44:24 ppm.



Thanks very much.

p.s. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. But, keep in mind that using Phosphoric acid can lead to Phosphorous excess/toxicity because when the acid degrades into Phosphorous, it sticks to particles of potting medium and is not easily washed out; so, it can build up to toxic levels. This is especially a concern in winter when plants are growing more slowly and not able to use all the phosphorous being made. Using Nitric acid fixes that because the resulting Nitrite that is produced isn't "sticky" and it is easily washed out of the pot with each watering. Excess Phosphorous shows up as light coloured, or yellow leaf margins....and eventually the death of leaf margins. If you're not seeing that symptom, then, I wouldn't worry about it. I did have this problem years ago and I did have to switch to Nitric acid from Phosphoric acid to solve this toxicity issue that showed up in my plants each year, in the late winter. 

If you ever try Nitric acid, BE CAREFUL! That stuff is NASTY! When you open the container, the fumes are so strong that an acid "smoke" will waft out of the opening. One tiny whif and you'll be coughing for an hour. It will dissolve many types of plastics as well. So, it must be stored in the original container that it came in.....no dividing it up into other containers, or you risk a breach and choking to death on a Nitric acid cloud.


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## Bjorn (Feb 6, 2015)

eggshells said:


> Hi Bjorn do you mean fertilizer ppm or just water ppm?



100ppm fertiliser


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## Bjorn (Feb 6, 2015)

John, you are mostly right in what you say, just a couple additions; phosphoric acid reacts and gives phosphates, particularly calcium phosphate (from the water) this is absolutely insoluble and will remove some calcium and phosphorous from the water. This may or may not be beneficial in this case I don't know.
Concentrated nitric acid is quite nasty as you say, but no-one should have to handle that in orchid growing. Here in Europe, its planned to get withdrawn from the public due to the posibility of someone using it as bomb component. I do not know what they have in mind, but it is entirely possible to make a bomb with it. Most explosives are using concentrated nitric acid in the manufacturing process. 
BUT, there is no resason to use either phosphoric or nitric acid, as long as we have citric acid, available from the nearest grocery store. Citric acis is more or less harmless and quite tolerant when it comes to dosage. Further it complexes ions and may assist the plant in the uptake of the fertiliser. Its reasonably priced as well as long as we are hobby'ists. For Commercial operations it may get a biut expensive so there I would probably use suphuric acid (the cheapest stuff available but nasty as well)


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## Stone (Feb 6, 2015)

Bjorn said:


> John, you are mostly right in what you say, just a couple additions; phosphoric acid reacts and gives phosphates, particularly calcium phosphate (from the water) this is absolutely insoluble and will remove some calcium and phosphorous from the water. This may or may not be beneficial in this case I don't know.
> Concentrated nitric acid is quite nasty as you say, but no-one should have to handle that in orchid growing. Here in Europe, its planned to get withdrawn from the public due to the posibility of someone using it as bomb component. I do not know what they have in mind, but it is entirely possible to make a bomb with it. Most explosives are using concentrated nitric acid in the manufacturing process.
> BUT, there is no resason to use either phosphoric or nitric acid, as long as we have citric acid, available from the nearest grocery store. Citric acis is more or less harmless and quite tolerant when it comes to dosage. Further it complexes ions and may assist the plant in the uptake of the fertiliser. Its reasonably priced as well as long as we are hobby'ists. For Commercial operations it may get a biut expensive so there I would probably use suphuric acid (the cheapest stuff available but nasty as well)



Bjorn, I used sulphuric acid now and then but I have now run out and find it hard to get more. (The nanny state in action yet again! They seem to think they need to protect us from ourselves. Bastards!). What is your opinion of acetic acid? Citric I should be able to get ok too. Not that I need to acidify much anymore as I still have a good supply of rain water but it probably won't rain now for the next 2 months at least and it goes fast! The next 7 days will be around 30C or more with low humidity so water is really getting splashed around!


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## Bjorn (Feb 6, 2015)

Either its bombs or nanny mentality
Acetic acid should be ok as well, but it smells. On the other hand, perhaps you could dose it by the smell? Once you can smell it then its overdosed
No, frankly, no problem with it. Amongst other acids are tartaric and....? Think citric is the easiest to use though. Concentrated acetic acid can be very agressive so use rubber gloves and protection if you have really concentrated acetic acid. No issues with citric....
Good Luck!


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## Trithor (Feb 6, 2015)

Surely battery acid is available? All our Home Depot/hardware stores and automotive spare shops carry stock of battery acid (sulphuric acid)


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## troy (Jan 6, 2016)

I am now looking for a hainense flask seriously lol... this flower is great on a great foliage plant, congrats on your accomplishment


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## Bob in Albany N.Y. (Jan 6, 2016)

troy said:


> I am now looking for a hainense flask seriously lol... this flower is great on a great foliage plant, congrats on your accomplishment



I've got a couple of leads for you and can send you copy of price lists if you want. Stacey Sorokowsky has flasks of Paph henissianum (type x album) that he will be picking up in a week or two. Also correct me if I'm wrong but aren't we talking about Paph appletonianum , which Windy Hill has mini compots of .ML-2526A Paph appletonianum (‘Windy Hill’ AM/AOS x ‘Harford’s Hainanense II’ HCC/AOS, $40. Also Chuck Aker has flasks of these as well. So lots of choices for you to chose from.

Hope this helps.


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## geogeo21 (Jan 6, 2016)

Love the tall stems


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## gego (Jan 6, 2016)

Wow, beautiful flower and a very healthy plant. Very impressive growing. All eaves are intact. Love it.

This info you shared to us is golden. If your Ca is 44 ppm, then it is even greater than your nitrogen.

This is great info.

Salamat.


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## gego (Jan 6, 2016)

Bjorn said:


> Should be approx 130ppm additional to what is in your water. Somewhat higher than I would have added- but in the ballpark. And totally agree, "feed weakly - weekly" should be rephased to "feed very weakly - always".



Hi Bjorn,

Seems like there tap water is so low in calcium only 44 ppm. I noticed that when I added citric acid to lower ph, the total ppm lowered a few points, very few but just wondering if the acid was cancelling some salts.


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## Bjorn (Jan 7, 2016)

gego said:


> Hi Bjorn,
> 
> Seems like there tap water is so low in calcium only 44 ppm. I noticed that when I added citric acid to lower ph, the total ppm lowered a few points, very few but just wondering if the acid was cancelling some salts.



Might be an effect of the chelating by the citric acid. Interesting observation. Does not remove salts, just makes them "inconductive"


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## Brabantia (Jan 7, 2016)

Very Nice!


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## gego (Jan 7, 2016)

Bjorn said:


> Might be an effect of the chelating by the citric acid. Interesting observation. Does not remove salts, just makes them "inconductive"



I made a solution yesterday having 7.2 pH and 375 ppm before adjusting the ph. After dropping a few grain of citric acid, the ph went down to 6.2 and the ppm to 353. Could it be that H+ had increase or the NO- decreased? Maybe it resulted to more ammonium? Just guessing, we have good chemists here maybe they can explain.


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## Markhamite (Jan 7, 2016)

I would grow this plant just for the leaf pattern. Great photos!


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## C. Rothschild (Jan 8, 2016)

Those leaves are amazing.


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## Stone (Jan 8, 2016)

gego said:


> Hi Bjorn,
> 
> Seems like there tap water is so low in calcium only 44 ppm. I noticed that when I added citric acid to lower ph, the total ppm lowered a few points, very few but just wondering if the acid was cancelling some salts.



Just a guess, but maybe the citric acid is binding with Ca to form insoluble Calcium Citrate which would not register on your EC meter. In other words you're getting precipitation.


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## troy (Jan 8, 2016)

Will precipitation cause a white film on medium?


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## gego (Jan 9, 2016)

Stone said:


> Just a guess, but maybe the citric acid is binding with Ca to form insoluble Calcium Citrate which would not register on your EC meter. In other words you're getting precipitation.



Will this be visible in the solution like tiny white powder?


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## Bjorn (Jan 10, 2016)

gego said:


> Will this be visible in the solution like tiny white powder?



Yes it would btw my comment about the chelating, well that may happen with the metal ions like calcium and magnesium, normally not with ammonium or anions like nitrate


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## Stone (Jan 10, 2016)

gego said:


> Will this be visible in the solution like tiny white powder?



Not sure but I would not be surprised if you can see it.


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## gego (Jan 10, 2016)

Stone said:


> Not sure but I would not be surprised if you can see it.



I didn't see any as I always stir my solution to check for precipitation. Just wondering what is lost or what is added when pH goes down after adding cirtic acid to the solution.


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## gego (Jan 10, 2016)

Bjorn said:


> Yes it would btw my comment about the chelating, well that may happen with the metal ions like calcium and magnesium, normally not with ammonium or anions like nitrate



Did you notice precipitation? I only add a few grain of it. Didn't expect the precipitation.


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## troy (Jan 10, 2016)

This is great!!! Very pleasing to look at every time!!! Thanks for posting this


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## Bjorn (Jan 11, 2016)

Ok, you may get calcium citrate precipitation in relatively concentrated solutions (like stock solutions). I always keep magnesium and calcium salts apart from the rest until it is mixed into the feed at e.g. 50ppm (mg/l). Then it will not precipitate. But stronger solutions may, depending on the concentration.


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## Bjorn (Jan 11, 2016)

And if you get a precipitation, you will see a precipitation if you leave it to stand for a day or two.


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