# only have enough money for one



## youngslipper (Jun 8, 2015)

Which one in your opinion is the best to grow. Would like to know size and care. Love both but only enough change for one.
Only five days to choose

Paph. Gloria Naugle
Paph. malipoense


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## Linus_Cello (Jun 8, 2015)

I vote for GN for 2 reasons:
(1) you can possibly get a large flower on a very small plant
(2) if it will bloom for you, the GN flower will more likely open; malipoense take a lot of time for the bloom to develop, and during that time there's a good likelihood of bud blast, etc. 
(also possible hybrid vigor with GN)


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## Happypaphy7 (Jun 8, 2015)

Well, the answer of this kind of question is totally personal and up to you.

They have completely different flowers and leaves, so it's a tough call.

With that said, if I were in your situation, I would go for malipoense because it is easy to grow and flower. It is one of the easiest parvi along with delenatii. You just have to have a cool winter to ensure that you see flowers in the spring. I suspect that bud blast is due to temperature fluctuation and/or underwatering during the "winter" period.

Gloria Naugle, like any other roth x parvi hybrids, will grow like a weed, *BUT* may not bloom for you as many people have tough time with this kind of hybrids. If you have a lot of patience, and love red over green, then why not! 
While waiting for it to bloom, you can enjoy growing and the nice leaves. It will make you feel like a great grower, but not a bloomer.


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## troy (Jun 8, 2015)

There are alot of variations that could trigger blooming of a hybrid or cause not to bloom, paph data sheets will generally five you the info about your paph


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## emydura (Jun 8, 2015)

Some people find GN all but impossible to flower. I think GN would be easier to grow but you may struggle to get any flowers.


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## troy (Jun 8, 2015)

I'm blooming a gloria naugle from giving it a 3 month cool rest and cattleya bright light


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## Happypaphy7 (Jun 8, 2015)

Troy- There are no secrets or tricks to get these hybrids to bloom.

It is the genetics of mixing certain things. Like mixing a horse and a donkey resulting in a infertile offspring. 

There are many people who grow roth x parvi hybrids under very good conditions. Some plants will flower and some will flower occasionally, and some will just never ever flower. 
There are no tricks. You just have to be lucky to have the right plant to see the flowers. And then, even when they flower, often, the quality is just meh~. but when it is good, it's *GOOD* which is why these hybrids are still being made.

Congratualtions on your blooming GN!
Let us see the flowers.


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## troy (Jun 8, 2015)

It's pushing up, thank you, there is alot of truth to what you said, it has to do with the pedigree of the parents


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## Kalyke (Jun 8, 2015)

Happypaphy7 said:


> Troy- There are no secrets or tricks to get these hybrids to bloom.
> 
> It is the genetics of mixing certain things. Like mixing a horse and a donkey resulting in a infertile offspring.
> 
> ...



I see it more like mixing a chihuahua with a great dane.


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## Secundino (Jun 8, 2015)

It looks as if you are beginning with Paphs. 
In my experience, both are difficult, if your goal is to see flowers every other year.
But there should be cheap, thrilling alternatives, which are easier to flower every year.


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## Justin (Jun 8, 2015)

i'm a species guy but have to go with the roth primary for more impactful flower.


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## Marco (Jun 8, 2015)

Gn because I like the form and flower color. Albiet i would probably kill it in an instant


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## Happypaphy7 (Jun 8, 2015)

No one mentioned about the size and care as the thread starter requested, so here.

GN can be very small (less than 8 in leaf span as a flowering size) due to the influence of micranthum, but most tend to have skinny long leaves going easily over 15 in. 
You can grow them like regular paph, bright indirect light.

Malipo plants are somewhat more uniform in size, although variability is of course there. Usually around 8-10 in leaf span. 
You can grow this one just like any other paphs as well, but these will perform (growth and flowering) better with proper winter. They go through cold (but not freezing) winter in the wild.


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## youngslipper (Jun 9, 2015)

I have got quite a few paphs. It is gor me the hardest decision to make. I will talk to the vendor this afternoom on what he think is best also. Both are seedlings


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## NYEric (Jun 9, 2015)

Personally, I don't find either of them easy to grow or bloom. If you want a parvisepilum x polyantha hybrid I would recommend a Delrosi or Marylin Hansen, not as colorful but having a different parent than roth will probably allow easier/quicker blooming.


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## emydura (Jun 9, 2015)

Secundino said:


> It looks as if you are beginning with Paphs.
> In my experience, both are difficult, if your goal is to see flowers every other year.
> But there should be cheap, thrilling alternatives, which are easier to flower every year.



I agree with you Secun. Neither of these plants would be considered easy to grow. There are other much easier growing Paphs that are just as spectacular.


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## Linus_Cello (Jun 9, 2015)

NYEric said:


> Personally, I don't find either of them easy to grow or bloom. If you want a parvisepilum x polyantha hybrid I would recommend a Delrosi or Marylin Hansen, not as colorful but having a different parent than roth will probably allow easier/quicker blooming.



I thought Delrosi had a reputation of being prone to rot?


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## emydura (Jun 9, 2015)

Linus_Cello said:


> I thought Delrosi had a reputation of being prone to rot?



I haven't found that. In fact they grow very easily for me. But many people find them just as difficult to flower as Gloria Naugle. Fortunately my two clones seem to flower easily though.


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## Happypaphy7 (Jun 9, 2015)

Delrosi is actually known to be a weed, which does not flower easily but will grow into a large clump in no time, which is very common for this type of hybrid ( parvi x roth or any other multi flora paph) as I mentioned earlier.

David, I have seen your threads of roth x parvi flowers. You got really lucky to have ones that flower easily for you.

By the way, I wonder if GN is prone to rust diseases or spotting issues on the underside of the leaves?
I have bought a few mature size (which turned out to be just NBS at best) off eBay last year. All had bad spotting on the underside of the leaves.
I got refund for some, and kept some, which I ended up tossing in fear of having the plaque spread onto my other plants. 

Well, my visits to three nurseries ( I will not say the name to protect them) tell me that GN might be prone to this spotting problems.
One nursery had some that were in bloom. I was not allowed to get close to the plants. lol Fair enough. The other two, I was allowed to freely walk around and touch whatever I want. Well, one of them had about 5 multiple growth healthy looking GN. None of them had any signs of blooming in the past. I was very tempted to take one or two and see if I would be lucky to see them flower. I checked the back of the leaves (since I already had bad experience with the leaves of this hybrid), well, let me just say I just quietly put them all down. All of them, to varying degree, had spots and even brown spot rots. 
The next nursery had many many of GN of varying sizes from small seedlings to multiple growths plants. I checked almost every single one of them, lifting up to see the underside of the leaves in search of that "clean" plant. Well, I did not see any. Well, I did see a few seedlings without any spots but they were dying. lol 
The multiple growths plants also showed no signs of past blooming and they again had those spots or had rotting leaves. 
So makes me wonder if this is a GN thing. 
I am more than willing to grab any GN without these problems. 
In the meantime, I am nursing my own crops that are disease free so far, but who knows when they will ever be ready to flower. Time will tell. I better eat super healthy and live a long life. hahaha
I do have one supposedly a mature size single fanned GN with no dieases, and it has that fat base, which makes me excited. Maybe this year? 

My two mature sized Delrosi continue to fool me with the dark edged leaves all the while making more pups.
My single growth Dollgoldi is sending up three pups all at the same time.
No good news on Pink Sky nor Harold Koopowitz, not just yet. 
Why did I buy these again? hahaha


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## Happypaphy7 (Jun 9, 2015)

NYEric said:


> Personally, I don't find either of them easy to grow or bloom. If you want a parvisepilum x polyantha hybrid I would recommend a Delrosi or Marylin Hansen, not as colorful but having a different parent than roth will probably allow easier/quicker blooming.



Eric, unfortunately, that is not the case. All these mutil x parvi or brachy are pain in the rear in the flowering department. 
You just have to be lucky to have the right plants, given that the growing conditions are suitable.


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## youngslipper (Jun 10, 2015)

I talked to the Nollie and Tinus from plantae about which they would say is the best to choose. They said that the GN would bloom a lot later than malipoense, but other than that they said they are easy to grow. I wanted a delrosi first but they did not have


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## emydura (Jun 10, 2015)

Happypaphy7 said:


> Delrosi is actually known to be a weed, which does not flower easily but will grow into a large clump in no time, which is very common for this type of hybrid ( parvi x roth or any other multi flora paph) as I mentioned earlier.
> 
> David, I have seen your threads of roth x parvi flowers. You got really lucky to have ones that flower easily for you.
> 
> ...



You keep buying them because they look so incredible when they do flower.  I also find the roth-parvi hybrids are incredible growers. They are easily the best clumpers in my collection. They put out lots of new growths. So far I have flowered two Dollgoldii's, two Delrosi's and one Harold Koopowitz without much effort. All of those plants were divisions of proven flowerers. So maybe you could try that route. I have another seedling of Harold Koopowitz from Taiwan. It must have 10 growths or so but still no flowers. It is a prolific grower. It just keeps putting out new growths. The plant looks fantastic but I'd like to see a spike. Having said that the original growth still seems to be putting out new leaves so maybe it isn't mature yet. It will be a specimen plant when it flowers for the first time. I've also got two each of NFS seedlings of Pink Sky, Gloria Naugle, Dollgoldii, Gerd Roellke and Wössner Vietnam Star. We'll see how they go.

Good luck in getting yours to flower.


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## Happypaphy7 (Jun 10, 2015)

Thanks, David. 
I hope I see some of them at least flower in my lifetime.
I never thought I would buy these hybrids, but I am sort of gambling. 
As you say, when these guys bloom and when they are good, they are just amazing!!! I finally gave in, I guess. I just have no more space to house these big growers that may never flower for me. 

I thought about getting a known division, but they are either not available or very expensive. My recent visit to a nursery had three divisions of HK, but I did not even bother to ask for price. It had AM/AOS, so it was going to be expensive, but the real problem was that the plant was gigantic! I had never seen such big HK. All three divisions were multiple growths, again, these are like weeds as you and I both confirm, but only one had old spike, which tells me that must be the mother plant. So apparently not a good bloomer. 
wasn't going to drop hefty dollars on non blooming large weed. hehe

How's your Gerd Rollke coming along? good grower?
I thought about getting Gerd Rollke and Alexej, but I think I want to hold off on these types of plants for now as I have loaded up on myself given the space issues. The interesting thing is even the those two are primary hybrids, the results can be quite variable in colors. So I really wish I had a greenhouse and grow a whole bunch of them to see I might get. Oh, well...sigh~


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## paphioland (Jun 10, 2015)

Happypaphy7 said:


> Troy- There are no secrets or tricks to get these hybrids to bloom.
> 
> It is the genetics of mixing certain things. Like mixing a horse and a donkey resulting in a infertile offspring.
> 
> ...


The environment matters. Just because you have a good environment doesnt mean you have one that initiates the bloom. GN are def harder than some to bloom but I've bloomed a vast majority of my GNs and dollgoldis. 
So in my experience I would say a large majority can be bloomed they just need to be coaxed more than others.


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## Happypaphy7 (Jun 10, 2015)

I guess the word "good" was too general and vague because I did not mean it as just ok environment but rather good conditions where the plants will grow and flower fine. 

So what do you do to get them to bloom?
I don't believe there is such a thing as coaxing them to bloom.
I know people whoes GN flowers about any time of the year. 
It is definitely the plants. These types of hybrids are just not willing bloomer in general. That is just a known fact. Otherwise you will see them in flower all the time. And that is not the case.


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## emydura (Jun 10, 2015)

Happypaphy7 said:


> I gu
> I don't believe there is such a thing as coaxing them to bloom.
> I know people whoes GN flowers about any time of the year.
> It is definitely the plants. These types of hybrids are just not willing bloomer in general. That is just a known fact. Otherwise you will see them in flower all the time. And that is not the case.



I agree with that. Most of my Paphs are so seasonal that you could set a calendar by their flowering. But these Parvi - roth hybrids flower at any time of the year for me. As soon as the growth matures it seems to flower. So to me environmental conditions play no role in their flowering.


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## paphioland (Jun 11, 2015)

Happypaphy7 said:


> I guess the word "good" was too general and vague because I did not mean it as just ok environment but rather good conditions where the plants will grow and flower fine.
> 
> So what do you do to get them to bloom?
> I don't believe there is such a thing as coaxing them to bloom.
> ...



A vast majority can bloom. You might not believe it but they can be coaxed to bloom. I've owned a bunch and they have all bloomed. Certain nurseries bloom a majority of their crop. You made it sound as if a vast majority can't genetically bloom when the reverse is true.


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## emydura (Jun 11, 2015)

Happypaphy7 said:


> Thanks, David.
> 
> 
> How's your Gerd Rollke coming along? good grower?
> I thought about getting Gerd Rollke and Alexej, but I think I want to hold off on these types of plants for now as I have loaded up on myself given the space issues. The interesting thing is even the those two are primary hybrids, the results can be quite variable in colors. So I really wish I had a greenhouse and grow a whole bunch of them to see I might get. Oh, well...sigh~



Slowly. These plants were imported in which means being fumigated and quarantined for 3 months. It really knocks them around and hence they take a long time to recover. Fortunately though the parvi's are more tolerant of the fumigation and hence don't lose their roots. Same thing with the Parvi-roth hybrids. They had good root systems (unlike straight multi-florals). Most of the plants look healthy but are growing slowly. I think Gerd Rollke can be even more difficult to flower. It is variable as you say ranging from beautiful to pretty ugly. Fingers crossed. I had the chance to get some Alexj but I didn't which I'm really regretting.


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## Happypaphy7 (Jun 11, 2015)

paphioland said:


> A vast majority can bloom. You might not believe it but they can be coaxed to bloom. I've owned a bunch and they have all bloomed. Certain nurseries bloom a majority of their crop. You made it sound as if a vast majority can't genetically bloom when the reverse is true.



Sure, they can! No one is saying that they can't, but based on observation, many usually do not, and that is true. They are not willing bloomer in general, and this is not the same thing as saying they are genetically unable to flower. I never said that.

You keep saying that they can be manipulated to flower, yet have not answered how. I do not believe there is any secrets. 
Growers with seasonal changes still have tough time flowering these hybrids, and some people who have constant conditions throughout the year have blooming plants, not to mention again that some people with or without seasonal change have theirs flower at any time of the year.
These are all true and not some odd cases.

I have no problem believing some growers have better luck with more willing stocks. 

So, I'm only interested in hearing one thing, and one thing only because everything else is getting rather repetitive. 
How do you "coax" them to flower? Or what is it that you think is helping them flower?
I'm sure many people would love to hear about it.


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## Happypaphy7 (Jun 11, 2015)

emydura said:


> Slowly. These plants were imported in which means being fumigated and quarantined for 3 months. It really knocks them around and hence they take a long time to recover. Fortunately though the parvi's are more tolerant of the fumigation and hence don't lose their roots. Same thing with the Parvi-roth hybrids. They had good root systems (unlike straight multi-florals). Most of the plants look healthy but are growing slowly. I think Gerd Rollke can be even more difficult to flower. It is variable as you say ranging from beautiful to pretty ugly. Fingers crossed. I had the chance to get some Alexj but I didn't which I'm really regretting.



Thanks, David.

What do you fumigate your newly acquired plants with, if I may ask?

I hope they all recover well.


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## emydura (Jun 11, 2015)

Happypaphy7 said:


> Thanks, David.
> 
> What do you fumigate your newly acquired plants with, if I may ask?
> 
> I hope they all recover well.



It is not my choice to fumigate them. They are fumigated by Customs at the quarantine centre. They use Methyl Mercury I believe. Actually Paphiopedilums and Phalaenopsis are exempted from fumigation as they are considered too sensitive to it, but they still fumigate them anyway. If they consider them to be a risk they ignore the exemption. When a large shipment is imported in they just take the safety first option and fumigate them. 

As I said the fumigation will kill the roots in a lot of the Paphs so when you get them after 3 months in quarantine the plants can be in terrible condition. Even when they look healthy and have good roots they still seem to take a long time to kick on.


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