# Brown Scale



## David Pedersen (Nov 15, 2012)

Hello All:

What is the best way to get rid of scale? I find these annoying invaders on my leaves and flowers now and again. Many thanks.


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## SlipperKing (Nov 15, 2012)

The best way is Endstar


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## abax (Nov 16, 2012)

...or Orthene 97% granular which is a systemic insecticide.


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## wjs2nd (Nov 16, 2012)

Insecticidal soap with or without Neem oil will also do it. Insecticidal soap is not very aggressive and will need three or four applications 6 days apart.


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## Bob in Albany N.Y. (Nov 16, 2012)

Rick you mean Enstar II don't you? I'm not sure it is still made in that form (liquid). With Enstar you only use a very small amount per gallon of spray. All of the above suggestions will take 4 sprays about a week apart to knock them down.


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## NYEric (Nov 16, 2012)

The best way depends on the size of the problem. My way is to wipe them off with alcohol! Then I spray the plants with a mixture of alcohol, lavender Oil soap, neem, and Merit 75!


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## likespaphs (Nov 16, 2012)

i'm a fan of systemic insecticides
but you'll have to make sure that you time the applications correctly
some want to be applied when the crawlers are present


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## Paph_LdyMacBeth (Nov 16, 2012)

Stupid scale!
I'm giving SucraShield a try. 


Sent from my BlackBerry 9300 using Tapatalk


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## Leo Schordje (Nov 16, 2012)

Eric is right, if you only have a few plants, his non-toxic chemical approach will work well. 

If you are growing hundreds of plants, you need to treat them all to make sure there is no 'hidden' population to re-infect the whole collection. 

In terms of chemicals I agree that Enstar II, which is still being made, is a key component. BUT Rick & Bob neglected to mention that Enstar II was designed to be used WITH a quick kill pesticide. It was not designed (by Sandoz) to be used alone. The Enstar II provides long term inhibition, but it needs a knock down or short term kill to get the population of pests down so that its long term effects will be most efficient. 

I apply a mixture when I spray. This generally allows me to clean the collection up completely in as little as 2 applications. My mixture of choice is Mavrik AD, Enstar II, and a few drops of wetter sticker or dish soap. Sometime I add a miticide to the mix also, usually WP Pentac. Then I spray this cocktail, twice 10 days apart. Then 10 days after the second application I look for living scale, usually all I find is dry, empty shells. If you see any life at all spray a 3rd time. You should be done after 2 applications, but if needed a 3rd is in order. Boisdevallia scale, it has a clear shell, is particularly resistant to all manner of control because the shell is so tight, pesticides have a hard time getting under the shell. 

Be sure to follow label for concentration. Too dilute you don't get the kill. Too strong you are both wasting money, and risk damaging plants. My cocktail is either 'AD' or 'WP' formulations which means no oil carriers other than the oil carrier for the Enstar II, so damage to the plants is unlikely. Making a mixture of several different emulsion concentrates, EC, does run the risk of damage from the oils in the emulsions. So choose Wettable Powders, WP, or Aqueous Dispersions AD, for you pestacide formulations where possible. 

The Mavrik is a water based Aqueous Dispersion. Mavirk is a synthetic pyrethroid compound. Relatively short life, but pretty good at the quick kill. 

Enstar II is a growth hormone disrupter. It doesn't kill. It prevents immature scale from changing into fertile adults. 

Alternate quick kills that have been successfully used with Enstar II include Imidiproclid formulations like Bayer Tree & Shrub. Malathion, Diazinon, Cygon, Pyrethrum sprays of all types. 

Hope this helps
And of course, read the labels, follow safety precautions and state and local rules for application and disposal. - the boiler plate to say: Double check what I just told you.


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## NYEric (Nov 16, 2012)

Leo Schordje said:


> Eric is right, if you only have a few plants, his non-toxic chemical approach will work well.



Yes, Merit 75 is very non-toxic!! :rollhappy:


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Nov 16, 2012)

I've always found Sunspray oil to be very effective under my conditions, which means just a small number of plants.


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## likespaphs (Nov 16, 2012)

NYEric said:


> Yes, Merit 75 is very non-toxic!! :rollhappy:



um, technically no
it has very low mammalian toxicity but is very toxic to aquatic invertebrates as well as the target pests.....


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## likespaphs (Nov 16, 2012)

i think i missed the joke.
oops


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## abax (Nov 17, 2012)

Why on earth go to all this trouble and mixing, multiple sprayings, etc. when one drench application of Orthene 97% WP will take care of the
problem? Using Orthene, you don't have to spray all over the place...just
mix one tsp. per gallon and soak the medium and you're done with either
type of scale.


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## Leo Schordje (Nov 17, 2012)

abax said:


> Why on earth go to all this trouble and mixing, multiple sprayings, etc. when one drench application of Orthene 97% WP will take care of the
> problem? Using Orthene, you don't have to spray all over the place...just
> mix one tsp. per gallon and soak the medium and you're done with either
> type of scale.



Because Orthene EC did not work well when I last tried it some 15 years ago. I settled on this mixture about 10 years ago after poor control with other mixtures. Great if it works for you, go ahead and use it. 

I was responding to the part of the post about using Enstar II. If one is going to use Enstar II, one should use it correctly. 

My way is not the only way. There certainly are other products that work. I was not trying to insist that my system is the best, only that it really works for me. 

*The Key Point Is:* The original literature published by Sandoz clearly stated that Enstar II should not be used by itself, that it should be used in combination with an insecticide that has good quick kill effect. Sandoz also stated that Enstar II was formulated to blend well with a wide range of quick kill insecticides. Sandoz also formulated Mavrik and Decathalon, both are synthetic chlorinated pyrethrin type insecticides and in their literature suggested either of these as good quick kill pestacides to combine with Enstar II. At the time I was plauged with a persistent mealy bug infestation that would return over and over a few months after every treatment. With the system I use now, Enstar II with Mavrik, I only have to spray twice in the fall, 10 days apart, and that is it. My collection stays insect free until summer, when critters come in from outside. Even though these sprays are expensive, because they work I spend a lot less than I used to.


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## likespaphs (Nov 17, 2012)

i'm pretty sure Enstar is an insect growth regulator which is why it isn't a quick kill
i don't like orthene as it is an organophosphate, a class which typically has higher mammalian toxicity....


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Nov 17, 2012)

Sandoz? Funny...growing up in the 70's, I have very different associations with sandoz.....


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## abax (Nov 18, 2012)

Well, pawtucket, I should have said that I have a greenhouse so Orthene
is the best choice for me since I can drench and leave. It does stink, but
I think it kills practically everything in one drench application. I don't think
I've ever had to use it twice. Oh wait, I used it on bush snails and did it
twice. Ain't seen one since either! It's also quite cheap compared to Merit, Enstar, etc. $18.00 for a rather large can that lasts a very long time.


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## Paph_LdyMacBeth (Nov 18, 2012)

Canadians aren't allowed to use chemicals! 
Ha ha ha 

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## NYEric (Nov 18, 2012)

Eric Muehlbauer said:


> Sandoz? Funny...growing up in the 70's, I have very different associations with sandoz.....


Sean Connery at his finest! LOL!



Paph_LdyMacBeth said:


> Canadians aren't allowed to use chemicals!
> Ha ha ha



Neither are NY'ers!!


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## Erythrone (Nov 18, 2012)

And even if we can't get strong chemicals pesticides, we are still able to grow orchids!!


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## Leo Schordje (Nov 19, 2012)

NYEric said:


> Yes, Merit 75 is very non-toxic!! :rollhappy:


Brain cramp, didn't read for comprehension.


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## Leo Schordje (Nov 19, 2012)

Eric Muehlbauer said:


> Sandoz? Funny...growing up in the 70's, I have very different associations with sandoz.....



:rollhappy:

For those who are too young to remember the 60's and 70's, Sandoz was the company who's researcher discovered LSD. They also owned the ExLax brand name (a laxative) and a fair number of other pharmaceuticals. But it is a huge multinational. Before I retired the company I worked for was for a period owned by Sandoz, before being sold to BASF. Our subsidiary made chemicals for concrete. So LSD, Exlax and Concrete were all Sandoz product lines.


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## cnycharles (Nov 19, 2012)

back a bunch of years ago I had brown soft scale and mealybug problems. I used imidacloprid products a few times (marathon, merit etc) and the brown soft scale went away, but would only knock back the mealybugs a bit and they would come back

we in upstate ny are allowed to play with marathon; only nyc'ers and islanders can't handle it... I know why long islanders can't use it but not sure why it applies to nyc (imidacloprid connects easily with water, and can easily move through sandy soil into the water table, and long island has lots of sand, and lots of nurseries and turfgrass growers. this isn't a scientific statement, just a very general explanation of why it's banned on long island) imidacloprid isn't that nasty of a chemical for people or plants, just that it can get into water easily and stay there a while. it's also being implicated along with other similar chemicals with the honeybee decline


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## Ozpaph (Nov 19, 2012)

Leo Schordje said:


> :rollhappy:
> 
> For those who are too young to remember the 60's and 70's, Sandoz was the company who's researcher discovered LSD. They also owned the ExLax brand name (a laxative) and a fair number of other pharmaceuticals. But it is a huge multinational. Before I retired the company I worked for was for a period owned by Sandoz, before being sold to BASF. Our subsidiary made chemicals for concrete. So LSD, Exlax and Concrete were all Sandoz product lines.



Where you a product tester.................?


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## Leo Schordje (Nov 20, 2012)

Ozpaph said:


> Where you a product tester.................?



More than one person has accused me of that. :crazy:


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