# New flowers from old growths?



## AnnCha (Nov 7, 2011)

I'm wondering if old growths on paphiopedilum can produce new flowers? Or is it only new growths that can produce flowers? I don't know how paphs works


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## Mocchaccino (Nov 7, 2011)

Old growths will not flower, either they have already flowered, or they are reluctant to flower. Each growth can only flower once. But there've been exceptional cases. 

A flowered old growth will usually produce another new growth from the stem. And only these new growths produce flowers for next year.


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## ehanes7612 (Nov 7, 2011)

Mocchaccino said:


> Old growths will not flower, either they have already flowered, or they are reluctant to flower. Each growth can only flower once. But there've been exceptional cases.
> 
> A flowered old growth will usually produce another new growth from the stem. And only these new growths produce flowers for next year.



previously bloomed growths will not rebloom flowers...but old growths that havent flowered can flower (although the likelihood is small)..i had an 8 growth parishii bloom on its two oldest nearly dead growths


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## Rick (Nov 7, 2011)

I think this is true for many orchids generally.

I know that I get reblooms on old growths from Bulbophyllums, Some genus in Pluerothalid, and some Dendrobiums.


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## Paph_LdyMacBeth (Nov 7, 2011)

ehanes7612 said:


> previously bloomed growths will not rebloom flowers...but old growths that havent flowered can flower (although the likelihood is small)..i had an 8 growth parishii bloom on its two oldest nearly dead growths


I've found some of my paphs wait until they have 2-3 growths before they all bloom, but this is usually with growths no older than a few years.

There is of course the odd growth that will produce a dreadfully distorted bloom and then push out another bud beside it on the same growth. An anomaly for sure, but members here have posted of its happening.


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## Rick (Nov 7, 2011)

I've had a handful of cases lately were an old growth, instead of pushing up a spike, starts a whole new growth from the crown.?!?!

A small subset of these where cases where either a bract or new leaf started to come up, but then blasted/rotted. So I thought the growth was spent for producing a flower anyway. Then it would start producing new basal growths, and then a new "crown" growth.


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## gonewild (Nov 7, 2011)

Rick said:


> I've had a handful of cases lately were an old growth, instead of pushing up a spike, starts a whole new growth from the crown.?!?!



Maybe potassium deficiency? (just kidding :rollhappy: )


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## emydura (Nov 7, 2011)

gonewild said:


> Maybe potassium deficiency? (just kidding :rollhappy: )



LOL.

David


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## Rick (Nov 7, 2011)

gonewild said:


> Maybe potassium deficiency? (just kidding :rollhappy: )




Actually I was thinking that in the past these plants were just going to die with crown rot (at the worst) or linger long enough to get a few new basal starts before dieing back.

I think my new low K feeding regime and hormones in the kelp extract is getting new growth out of the old crowns.


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## gonewild (Nov 8, 2011)

Rick said:


> Actually
> I think my new low K feeding regime and hormones in the kelp extract is getting new growth out of the old crowns.



You probably are right. Keep talking!
While you see the increase of vegetative growth and these unusual growths from the crown do you notice any decline in flowering?


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## Rick (Nov 8, 2011)

gonewild said:


> You probably are right. Keep talking!
> While you see the increase of vegetative growth and these unusual growths from the crown do you notice any decline in flowering?




To early to tell for the collection as a whole. At first it seemed like a few things (non slippers) were having smaller than normal flowers, but just as many. A few flowers seemed "greener" or less heavily pigmented. But the same plants a month or two later are producing big flowers again with good color.

One other concern I have is that some seedlings seem to be getting bigger and bigger leaves, but not producing new growths at the size I am used too. But I just found some new growths on a 2 different sanderianums that have been getting the treatment, and a venustum seedling (in bud now!) just develeped its first new basal growth. I posted a henryanum pic not that long ago which was a first time bloomer but already had 3 or 4 new growths before spiking. It's continuing on. Just about all my wardii (whichbloomed last year, are in spike/bud now). And I have an emersonii with a low spike (first time bloomer, but with 4 growths).

I'm real excited about a big multi growth Phrag caricinum that has 4 spikes just starting to bud up. This plant has always been an erwinia battle ground, but this year just a few older leaves needed pulled, and I didn't even need to play with dragons blood or cinomen.

Now that you bring it up, it doesn't seem like lack of flowers are a problem.


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## Rick (Nov 8, 2011)

gonewild said:


> You probably are right. Keep talking!
> While you see the increase of vegetative growth and these unusual growths from the crown do you notice any decline in flowering?




I think I was intending to watch some of my more aggresive growing plants as prime indicators of something negative about low K feeding.

To that end I have a pretty big (like 10"pot) Phrag longifolium in hydroton that I have been watching pretty closely. It's put on several new growths with extra long leaves. And no sign of leaf tip burn, which was pretty normal for this plant. It had 2 or 3 blooming spikes before I reduced K and its added 2 or 3 more new ones. Blooms are in the 18-21 cm range. So this plant hasn't shown any negative effects.

From looking at one of my articles on rainforest overy karst geology, there is a short blip of about a month or so when K increases a bit in the leaf litter. I think this was Feb or March, but need to check.

So I was thinking that maybe late winter I might spike a little Proteck depending on how things look.


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## gonewild (Nov 8, 2011)

Rick said:


> To that end I have a pretty big (like 10"pot) Phrag longifolium in hydroton that I have been watching pretty closely. It's put on several new growths with extra long leaves. And no sign of leaf tip burn, which was pretty normal for this plant.



When you reduced the K did that result in a lower ppm total so as tds was reduced or did your increase of Ca keep the tds the same?



> It had 2 or 3 blooming spikes before I reduced K and its added 2 or 3 more new ones. Blooms are in the 18-21 cm range. So this plant hasn't shown any negative effects.



No negative effects and would you say the overall condition of the plant is better?



> From looking at one of my articles on rainforest overy karst geology, there is a short blip of about a month or so when K increases a bit in the leaf litter. I think this was Feb or March, but need to check.



Feb or March is like mid summer and very wet. Leaves fall from trees in June and lay on the surface basically dry and crumbly until rains come and then could dissolve a high content of K and move it into the root zone.



> So I was thinking that maybe late winter I might spike a little Proteck depending on how things look.



I think that would correlate with what I wrote above? Kind of hard to keep track of what we are actually saying.


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## SlipperKing (Nov 8, 2011)

Rick said:


> Actually I was thinking that in the past these plants were just going to die with crown rot (at the worst) or linger long enough to get a few new basal starts before dieing back.
> 
> I think my new low K feeding regime and hormones in the kelp extract is getting new growth out of the old crowns.



I don't think so Rick. I have a number of them doing the same thing. I don't use hormones in the kelp thing.


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## Rick (Nov 8, 2011)

gonewild said:


> When you reduced the K did that result in a lower ppm total so as tds was reduced or did your increase of Ca keep the tds the same?
> No negative effects and would you say the overall condition of the plant is better?
> 
> Feb or March is like mid summer and very wet. Leaves fall from trees in June and lay on the surface basically dry and crumbly until rains come and then could dissolve a high content of K and move it into the root zone.
> ...




To cut K I reduced the amount of MSU fert. But I added back the missing N by adding CaNO3. I'm also adding some Mag sulfate. TDS may actually be a bit higher than before.


Yes I think the plant is overall better. Blooming rate is the same, but leaves are bigger/darker/stiffer, and don't have tip burn.

The litterfall paper is based on forest in West Sumatra. Overall seasonality of rain/temp is not that high, but peak rainfall actually in August/Sept and generally higher from June through November. Lowest temps in November. The peak K was Jan/Feb and again in May. This corresponds more to higher rates of fresh leaf fall rather than flush of rain through old beat up leaves.

My reasoning for a late winter shot of K is actually that the W Sumatran peak K coincides with the beginning of the multifloral paph blooming season both in the wild and in my GH. I'm not necessarily trying to time it to rain and temp cycles.


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## Rick (Nov 8, 2011)

This is getting more off the subject on blooming of old growths, and going back into a general culture/nutrition topic.

But I'm also getting good growth for Catts and Oncidium types too.

Another indicator plant is a Degarmora I bought from home depot in 2002. It's waxed and waned over the years, but really started to go downhill, with ever shrinking growths up to about 2010, (when I started playing around with Mg addition and putting a little well water in with the RO). But the growths and leaves just since this past spring (under low K) are about 20% bigger than what this plant did for 2010. 2010 was almost a record blooming for this plant so we'll see what happens on the next blooming.


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## NYEric (Nov 9, 2011)

Tolumnia continue to put out growths and bloom on old growths.


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## Rick (Nov 9, 2011)

NYEric said:


> Tolumnia continue to put out growths and bloom on old growths.



Is Tolumnia monopodial?

I guess all monopodial orchids rebloom on old growths. (That would cover all the vandaceous species).


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