# What do you look for when selecting a seedling?



## Carkin (Dec 11, 2014)

If you have your pick of seedlings and you're only choosing one, what do you look for?
Is it the biggest one? Or is it the colour of the leaves? Intensity or clarity of pattern (on mottled leaves)? What about colour at the base of the leaf, do you look for darker shades?


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## Linus_Cello (Dec 11, 2014)

What you listed, and also: number of leaves, width of leaves, and any new leaf growth.


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## Chicago Chad (Dec 11, 2014)

leaf width, not length... Tom Kalina led me onto that in the beginning.


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## NYEric (Dec 11, 2014)

That they are not seedlings.


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## Chicago Chad (Dec 11, 2014)

> That they are not seedlings.


....and we have a winner!!!


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## Carkin (Dec 11, 2014)

Linus_Cello said:


> What you listed, and also: number of leaves, width of leaves, and any new leaf growth.







Chicago Chad said:


> leaf width, not length... Tom Kalina led me onto that in the beginning.




Thank you guys! I never thought about width of leaves...what does that indicate? Fuller blooms?


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## Linus_Cello (Dec 11, 2014)

more maturity


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## Carkin (Dec 11, 2014)

Linus_Cello said:


> more maturity




Interesting, thanks!


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## troy (Dec 11, 2014)

Lol.. not seedlings lol.. start out with blooming size plants!!!


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## Justin (Dec 11, 2014)

i like plants to have a "chunky" look if that makes sense.


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## NYEric (Dec 11, 2014)

troy said:


> Lol.. not seedlings lol.. start out with blooming size plants!!!


That will save you more headaches than you can imagine! :wink:


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## Carkin (Dec 11, 2014)

NYEric said:


> That they are not seedlings.







troy said:


> Lol.. not seedlings lol.. start out with blooming size plants!!!




I hear what you are saying. I do prefer to buy plants in bloom, no surprises that way. But, for a few reasons, often times buying seedling are my best/only option. So that's why I asked the question.


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## Carkin (Dec 11, 2014)

Justin said:


> i like plants to have a "chunky" look if that makes sense.




"Chunky", that's cute...I'll remember that! Thank you.


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## Parryaw (Dec 12, 2014)

Seedlings? I have enough problems with blooming sized plants!


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## PaphMadMan (Dec 12, 2014)

Carkin said:


> Thank you guys! I never thought about width of leaves...what does that indicate? Fuller blooms?



Leaf width has some correlation with width of segments in the flower. There is a genetic basis for this - flower parts all evolved as specialized leaves. They share some developmental genes. Selection for broad petals can lead to broad leaves too. If you're looking at a group of same size/age seedlings of similar genetic background - same pod - then it can be worth looking at as a comparison. It doesn't mean much if comparing plants that are not closely related and same size/age.

But the first thing I look at is health - and that doesn't necessarily mean the biggest or greenest. Just that it must look healthy and vigorous. Anything that isn't absolutely thriving as a pampered seedling among a jungle of siblings probably never will.

Another thing that catches my eye is new growth. If it is the optimal stage for repotting I can get it fully adapted to my conditions starting immediately and that will put it ahead of others in the long run.


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## Carkin (Dec 12, 2014)

That is very informative, thank you PaphMadMan.


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## Carkin (Dec 12, 2014)

Parryaw said:


> Seedlings? I have enough problems with blooming sized plants!




I actually love growing seedlings! Yes, it requires patience and there is no guarantee that you will get an exceptional bloom but I just love to grow things! I find it very satisfying to see a little thing become a mature plant, kinda makes me proud that I'm doing something right.


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## The Mutant (Dec 12, 2014)

Carkin said:


> I actually love growing seedlings! Yes, it requires patience and there is no guarantee that you will get an exceptional bloom but I just love to grow things! I find it very satisfying to see a little thing become a mature plant, kinda makes me proud that I'm doing something right.


I can understand this. I've had the majority of my Paphs since they were young plants (had them for 2-3 years now), and so far, four of them have flowered (my sukh tried to, but I didn't allow it).

What I like the most is comparing pictures I took when I got them home, with what they look like now. It's great to see how much some of them have grown.

Multis, however, I think I prefer NBS or BS, because they are just too slow. :rollhappy:


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## NYEric (Dec 12, 2014)

Carkin said:


> I actually love growing seedlings! Yes, it requires patience and there is no guarantee that you will get an exceptional bloom but I just love to grow things! I find it very satisfying to see a little thing become a mature plant, kinda makes me proud that I'm doing something right.


What about when things go wrong? God willing we should live long enough..


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## Carkin (Dec 12, 2014)

NYEric said:


> What about when things go wrong? God willing we should live long enough..




What do you mean? Like a hideous bloom?


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## NYEric (Dec 12, 2014)

No, like the seedlings don't survive.


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## Carkin (Dec 12, 2014)

The Mutant said:


> I can understand this. I've had the majority of my Paphs since they were young plants (had them for 2-3 years now), and so far, four of them have flowered (my sukh tried to, but I didn't allow it).
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I love doing that too!


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## NYEric (Dec 12, 2014)

You are thinking like a young person. When i buy plants I try to choose the healthiest, then the ones with the most number of mature growths, then I look at the proportions and color (deeper is better, or lighter for albums) of the leaves.


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## Carkin (Dec 12, 2014)

NYEric said:


> No, like the seedlings don't survive.




Oh, well I have lost a few, but that happens. I don't buy anything that I don't think that I can handle. Like, I passed up on a nice bunch of hangianums because I know they grow super slow and they were tiny...and I would be really sad if it died.



NYEric said:


> You are thinking like a young person. When i buy plants I try to choose the healthiest, then the ones with the most number of mature growths, then I look at the proportions and color (deeper is better, or lighter for albums) of the leaves.




Lol, I'm 38, not sure if that's young but you're not old! I didn't say that I only buy ss, I often have a pick of ms's and sometimes ls's too.

Thanks for sharing your tips!


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## NYEric (Dec 12, 2014)

Ya, i only have 15 years on you, that's a lifetime in plant growth.


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## Carkin (Dec 12, 2014)

NYEric said:


> Ya, i only have 15 years on you, that's a lifetime in plant growth.




Hahaha, well in 15 years I'll probably be telling people not to buy seedlings...but for now I appreciate all the tips I've been given by you experienced growers. Thank you.


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## Parryaw (Dec 12, 2014)

Carkin said:


> I actually love growing seedlings! Yes, it requires patience and there is no guarantee that you will get an exceptional bloom but I just love to grow things! I find it very satisfying to see a little thing become a mature plant, kinda makes me proud that I'm doing something right.




I have tried a few seedlings before and all of them have died on me. I also enjoy that feeling of satisfaction but maybe once I have enough experience then I would get myself a flask. I have even reduced multigrowth plants to a mere seedling size!


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## Carkin (Dec 12, 2014)

Parryaw said:


> I have tried a few seedlings before and all of them have died on me. I also enjoy that feeling of satisfaction but maybe once I have enough experience then I would get myself a flask. I have even reduced multigrowth plants to a mere seedling size!




Awww...maybe they weren't healthy seedlings to begin with. 
I would love to try a flask one day too! Not quite confident enough yet though.


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## PaphMadMan (Dec 12, 2014)

I think some of you are being too literal about buying 'seedlings'. I think the original question applies more to any unbloomed plant than to one just weeks out of flask.


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## Carkin (Dec 12, 2014)

PaphMadMan said:


> I think some of you are being too literal about buying 'seedlings'. I think the original question applies more to any unbloomed plant than to one just weeks out of flask.




Yes, that is what I meant! Sorry if I was unclear.


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## troy (Dec 12, 2014)

Unless you unflask the seedlings you really don't know which are the good ones!! You may get seedlings from somebody who keep all the good ones and dump the rejects, the slow growers non blooming etc..., not all growers do this but some do, so it's a crapshoot!! I'm just trying to give you some insight about buying seedlings, not jade you, hope this helps


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## troy (Dec 12, 2014)

Most seedlings that dies under good culture was a bad seed!!


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## Bjorn (Dec 13, 2014)

Eric, I am your age, and buy flasks. What does that make me? Joke aside, my experience is that for some species it takes longer time to acclimatise seedlings than getting flasklings to a decent size. Eg. Venustums and wardiis flower within two years. I have had seedlings sulking for longer time than that!


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## NYEric (Dec 13, 2014)

That's a good point. Probably because the seedlings were started one way and then have had a change in conditions; but with unflasked plants the culture is probably consistent.


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## Bjorn (Dec 13, 2014)

And you have the possibility of choosing the best growers. This may not be those with the best flowers but ok, it feels good to have something that actually grows and not only sits there. And if you keep the rest of the flask they may surprise you one day!


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## troy (Dec 13, 2014)

Check that plants culture and mimic that best as possible, you should not have a problem


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## Trithor (Dec 13, 2014)

troy said:


> Unless you unflask the seedlings you really don't know which are the good ones!! You may get seedlings from somebody who keep all the good ones and dump the rejects, the slow growers non blooming etc..., not all growers do this but some do, so it's a crapshoot!! I'm just trying to give you some insight about buying seedlings, not jade you, hope this helps



Not so sure that is true. I have found that the fastest seedlings are seldom the best of the flask. Also seedlings that struggle under a set of conditions often thrive under someone else's conditions. Not quite as simple as deflasking and keeping a few of the 'best' ones. I wish it were, that way I could deflasking a batch and keep 10% and be happy that I had achieved my goal of selecting some good plants and save a lot of space and effort


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## Clark (Dec 13, 2014)

To the OP, price is the determinant.

About these flasks(full size, 25 or more), to me, the bottom 20% are just plain crap.
Will a vendor keep these? Water these runts another year or two till they are big enough to sell?
Will a vendor take a bunch of runts of same size, throw them in a compot, and make it $150.00? Meanwhile keeping the top for himself, for a more favorable sale later?

I can go on and on about how much dung I think is on the sales booth.
That's money. What vendor is going to throw away money.

Flask or blooming plant (to me) is the way to buy. Avoid impulse buying.
I have gotten many killer plants from Slippertalkers also. I think ego has a lot to do with it.


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