# Please be mindfull...



## Heather (Jun 19, 2008)

When posting about natural Cyp. habitats. We don't want to risk anyone being able to poach anything from the wild based on logistical information. 

Thank you!


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## biothanasis (Jun 20, 2008)

Good point Heather...!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I think there are a lot of people with the "good will" to do that!!!!!!! (You all understand what I mean...!!!)


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## Corbin (Jun 20, 2008)

I understand the concern and could not agree more, but on the other hand if I or anyone else knows where they are and if we do not share how is anybody else going to enjoy them?


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## Heather (Jun 20, 2008)

I think photographs and vague location descriptions are fine. PM a person if you want details and it should be up to them to discern whether to give out more particulars. 

This isn't really an issue with any of our members - I think we are all quite conservation minded - but we do have a lot of unregistered guests and I just think we should be mindful of it.


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## cnycharles (Jun 22, 2008)

I usually offer to take someone/people to a spot of concern if I haven't met them before to gauge their level of 'interest before I would give them directions to a spot; before that I often describe the mud, the mosquitos and the distance walking/driving to a spot they may have to endure if they really want to see something. After that most people are just happy to see the pictures. One person asking me about certain plants made a fairly flat joke about 'having a shovel in the trunk' without my having said anything about plant poaching; others will unknowingly point out their future orchid poaching potential by talking about other wildflowers they've borrowed and put in their gardens. I just smile and mentally remove them from any future orchid trips! If it seems like they are willing to learn I try to explain why it isn't a good idea to take plants from the wild.

Often photographers (like myself) are so involved with getting pictures that they don't concern themselves with the possibility of removing plants, though I have seen photographers so anxious to get pictures of everything that they don't pay attention to where they tromp, where the tripod legs get stuck or what they knock over, or things like that. I have an ingrained habit now when I am in orchid habitats that I am always walking with my head down to see where I'm stepping; it can be a real problem when walking through a cedar or hardwood forest where sticks can reach out at head level... good reason to where a hat

- these are just thoughts for someone who may not understand why people knowing about orchid or other plant sites are often very careful about not giving out location information, it isn't because we are selfish people or jerks that don't want anyone else to know about a prime spot, it is too easy for a spot to get ruined or plants removed by people that may be somewhat well-meaning (or obviously completely un-well-meaning) but just don't know the dangers of being at a site or removing plants (other than it being not legal in most cases if you don't have permission of landowner)


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## musiclovertony (Jun 14, 2010)

I make it a point to never publicly disclose the locations of my photographs of rare species of any variety (animal, or plant). I often see overzealous photgraphers taking photos from as close as they possibly can to their subject without realizing the damage they're causing. I attended a lecture by Marilyn Light, last month, that emphasized the importance of not coming closer than 2 or 3 feet from any orchid, due to the compaction of the soil it causes and the effect that has both on the roots of the existing plant and the possible germination of future generations of plant. I remember seeing a 4 foot tall, multiple stemmed Cyp reginae in a bog in a MN state park that was entirely surrounded by footprints. Needless to say, it's not present above ground, this season.

The most unfortunate example of the danger of listing known populations of rare species is one that I've noticed the last couple years. The state of Minnesota lists populations of many of their rare species. There is a native lady slipper that has it's strongest presence in Minnesota (Cypripedium candidum). It has already been extirpated from many of its previous locations, even in the last couple decades, from invasive grasses and degradation and alteration in hydrology. There is a site in the Minnesota River valley where, a few years ago, thousands of Cyp candidum grew. The last two years there have been no more than a dozen plants and these were all single stemmed plants. This didn't happen naturally and this year, I saw physical evidence of poaching of these and Cyp parviflorum at the site (numerous shovel holes). I called the Department of Natural Resources to report the poaching. They were appalled, but said that with how thinly the conservation officers are stretched, there's basically no way the problem can be stopped, unless the offenders are caught in the actual act of poaching, with plants in hand.

It's a terrible thing to see and will likely be more and more common with the advent of sites like Flickr, where people list and even map the locations of their photographs.


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## smartie2000 (Jun 14, 2010)

people also trample on soil and that compacts the soil which probably kills plants slowly or inhibit new plants/growth. don't walk too near Cyps! I make this comment based on my viewing of habitat, the soil does have obvious areas where people have walked continuously. and I know cyps like fluffy soils when cultivated


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## parvi_17 (Jun 14, 2010)

The situation with Cyp. candidum is very sad indeed. This has always been one of my favorites and it breaks my heart to see it continue to disappear. I was fortunate enough to receive a seedling from a batch lab propagated by a local expert on in-vitro propagation, who is a Cyp specialist. Hopefully I can keep it alive! But I am at least happy to report that they are now being grown artificially where I am.


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## jewel (Jun 15, 2010)

smartie2000 said:


> people also trample on soil and that compacts the soil which probably kills plants slowly or inhibit new plants/growth. don't walk too near Cyps! I make this comment based on my viewing of habitat, the soil does have obvious areas where people have walked continuously. and I know cyps like fluffy soils when cultivated



when soil is compacted the air and water holding capacity of the soil is destroyed causing either suffocation to the roots or drought stress because normal soil structure includes naturally occurring pockets and capillaries for air and water movement, in other words, its like trying to grow a cattleya in a bucket of swamp mud.


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## KyushuCalanthe (Jun 16, 2010)

The situation here in Japan is a model for what could happen globally with any rare and desirable plant. Rundown of Japanese Cyps in the wild today:

C. debile - still fairly common in some areas of central and northern Honshu and Hokkaido, but under pressure from the nursery trade. Rare or extinct in the rest of Japan. Shikoku populations in danger of extinction.

C. japonicum - rare throughout its range due to habitat loss and collection. Likely to extirpated from Kyushu and Shikoku within the next few decades. Large colonies are maintained and "shepherded" 24/7 to protect them, however even these populations are subject to collection.

C. macranthos - three varieties in Japan, all critically endangered:

* "speciosum" - this plant can still be found in northern Honshu and Hokkaido, but every year is becoming less common. Collecting pressure has decreased due to strong laws focusing on this species, but they still are being taken.

* "hoteiatsumorianum" - a near ghost in the wild due to over collection. Some populations persist in Hokkaido and reportedly some in Honshu, but those southern plants have been mostly collected out.

* v. rebunense - botanically recognized creamy yellow variety found only on Rebun Island off the NW coast of Hokkaido. Much of the original population was taken years ago, but the remaining plants are highly protected and designated a "national treasure". 

* yatabeanum - a few mountains of central Honshu still harbor populations and more widespread on Hokkaido. Still not safe from collection and rare.

In addition two other species have been found in very limited numbers in Hokkaido, C. calceolus and C. shanxiense. Both are critically endangered within Japan, but are fairly common in nearby northern China, north Korea, and adjacent areas of Russia.

So, overall the situation in Japan is depressing. Taiwan's Cyps have suffered similarly and many of China's species will follow suit in the coming decades with the exception of perhaps a few wide ranging and common species.

Still, having said all that, with a few exceptions, the greatest threat to any Cypripedium species is habitat alteration - whether it be out and out destruction via development or more subtle changes in climate or local conditions. As human populations spread out more and more, fewer and fewer places exist for remaining plants. 'Nuf said.


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## cnycharles (Jun 16, 2010)

it's sad that people that from afar seem so intelligent and in tune with nature could so blindly destroy their natural resources. I guess if it's done a little at a time, nobody pays any attention


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## grady (May 24, 2013)

musiclovertony said:


> I often see overzealous photgraphers taking photos from as close as they possibly can to their subject without realizing the damage they're causing.



As I photographed the cyp montanum on our property, especially those plants in difficult locations, I couldn't help but leave an imprint of my presence. This became more and more of a concern as I went from clump to clump (we have 36 clumps of 182 plants). I found that it was impossible to get good photos of some of the plants without disturbing their habitat. I've decided to stop photographing plants in difficult locations; just watching them from a distance has become my standard procedure.


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## cnycharles (May 24, 2013)

A good 105 mm macro lens will let you get as close as you need without doing any damage


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## KyushuCalanthe (May 24, 2013)

cnycharles said:


> A good 105 mm macro lens will let you get as close as you need without doing any damage



Yeah, but after buying that lens all you can eat for dinner for 6 months is cup ramen :rollhappy:


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## cnycharles (May 25, 2013)

Sigma lens. Pretty good quality for a very reasonable price, and you'll get more use than most toys you buy. 

I still won't pay nearly $400 for a canon ring flash that's been on the market for a number of years, and there is no competitor's nearly equal version for a lot less


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