# Went to judging today with 7 came home with 3



## SlipperKing (Mar 18, 2017)

Gave a preview of this one in my delenatii thread.

micranthum fma. eburneum 'Sexy' HCC/AOS











Judges thought it was on the small side, barely made the cut. 75pt





Paph ciliolare 'Rick's Pink Panther' HCC/AOS 79pt. Posted this one earlier















Paph delenatii fma album 'White Rabbit' AM/AOS. This is the fourth time to bloom and it hit on the right date! Also, first time to bloom with 2 flowers.

















*The ones that didn't make the cut;*
lawrenceanum v. hyeanum. The judges didn't think the photographer could capture the flower without catching some of the synsepal (extra tissue). Of course I could not show my ST posting to show it was avoidable.






The std delenatii F3 I made. Too pale compared to today's standards (the vini X stds)oke:






javanicum- too weak of a stem. Of course the judges didn't know anything about most species slipper, yet alone this one. javanicums must all have weak tall stems and grow in tall grasses/ brush which supports the stems. oh well next time.






Dot's Phrag Joyce's Island Sunset because it sweep to the right


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## Justin (Mar 18, 2017)

Awesome...the del and the mucranthum are to die for.


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## AdamD (Mar 18, 2017)

Congrats! I bet you made the judges' day!


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## John M (Mar 18, 2017)

Congratulations!

I love the album delenatii and of course, the micranthum. I LOVE micranthum eburneum!


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## Spaph (Mar 18, 2017)

What a haul! Congrats for the awards and for taking all those plants for judging. What an accomplishment :clap:


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## abax (Mar 18, 2017)

Good for you SK! I'm sure you've noticed that most AOS
judges know very little about most slipper orchids. I bestow on you the second ST/Award of Merit and the first
of 2017.


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## Ozpaph (Mar 19, 2017)

you certainly went all in. Great set of plants.
If they thought the eburneum was small why did they award it? I like it anyway.


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## Wendy (Mar 19, 2017)

A wonderful group of flowers! Congratulations!


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## tnyr5 (Mar 19, 2017)

Ozpaph said:


> you certainly went all in. Great set of plants.
> If they thought the eburneum was small why did they award it? I like it anyway.



Size is 10 points; form is 40.


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## Happypaphy7 (Mar 19, 2017)

No awards because it sweeps to the right?
How ridiculous! Then, again, I have no interest in awards or judging.

Beautiful bunch!


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## orchid527 (Mar 19, 2017)

A nice bunch of flowers and deserving of the awards. Mike


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## emydura (Mar 19, 2017)

Congratulations Rick. Your strike rate is amazing. I got a NFS ciliolare yesterday. I hope it looks half as good as yours.


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## NYEric (Mar 19, 2017)

Congrats!


Happypaphy7 said:


> No awards because it sweeps to the right?
> How ridiculous! Then, again, I have no interest in awards or judging.


You should, if you're head of an OS.


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## Marco (Mar 19, 2017)

Well deserved..Congrats!


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## Happypaphy7 (Mar 19, 2017)

NYEric said:


> Congrats!
> 
> You should, if you're head of an OS.



Nah~ I like what I like.


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## SlipperKing (Mar 19, 2017)

emydura said:


> Congratulations Rick. Your strike rate is amazing. I got a NFS ciliolare yesterday. I hope it looks half as good as yours.


Thanks David. I hope it's even better then my.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


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## MorandiWine (Mar 20, 2017)

Congrats on the awards. The eburn is super nice! Love the colors, how big is it? So many of them are tiny compared to standard micranthum. I hope they didnt compare it to non eburneums. IMHO it should be a different species.

T


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## Mark Karayannis (Mar 20, 2017)

Congrats Rick, you, v done an excellent job


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## emydura (Mar 20, 2017)

Happypaphy7 said:


> No awards because it sweeps to the right?
> How ridiculous! Then, again, I have no interest in awards or judging.
> 
> Beautiful bunch!



I don't understand your comment. Symmetry is an important criteria in orchid judging. This flaw is pretty obvious even to a non-orchid judge. If you ignore flaws and award everything then you devalue the whole award system. Only the very best should receive an award. Maybe next time it will have better symmetry and it can be awarded.


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## SlipperKing (Mar 20, 2017)

MorandWine, I will try to take a pic of the paperwork tonight. I wondered the same thing. Reading over the last 3 awards the support group came up with is unclear. None used the word, eburneum in their description. 
To the credit of the judges, they realize albanistic flowers do run smaller then the norm.
If I'd had one more day the petals would of been flatter. I had no choice, it would of not made for April 's judging. 
I agree with you David. I realized the flower had flaws but its Dot's plant and I was trying for her, not that she ask I just took it in.

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## JeanLux (Mar 20, 2017)

Bravo again !!!! Jean


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## Happypaphy7 (Mar 20, 2017)

emydura said:


> I don't understand your comment. Symmetry is an important criteria in orchid judging. This flaw is pretty obvious even to a non-orchid judge. If you ignore flaws and award everything then you devalue the whole award system. Only the very best should receive an award. Maybe next time it will have better symmetry and it can be awarded.



Not the symmetry, but how the flower sits is the way I understood "sweeping to the right". It's nodding to the side. 

David, I don't mean any harm but beauty, including what's desirable and good, is in the eye of the beholder and individual taste differs widely. 

Awards mean a lot to those who participate in the judging and awards, and place high value in them. 
To others like me, they mean little to nothing.


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## emydura (Mar 20, 2017)

Happypaphy7 said:


> Not the symmetry, but how the flower sits is the way I understood "sweeping to the right". It's nodding to the side.
> 
> David, I don't mean any harm but beauty, including what's desirable and good, is in the eye of the beholder and individual taste differs widely.
> 
> ...



But then why make a comment criticising the judges and the judging process. Orchid judges are looking at the flowers from a completely different perspective to you. 

You make the mistake of thinking that just because the judges didn't award the plant, they didn't like it. It is not about what they like. It is whether the judges think the orchid is an exceptional (way above average) form of the species or hybrid.


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## Happypaphy7 (Mar 20, 2017)

David, I have more than basic understanding of how orchid judging works. I am just not interested in that world. Even then, I can express my opionion, right?

It is sort of about what they like or not, too. In your own words, you sort of said it, too, where you said "It is not about what they like. It is whether the judges think the orchid is..." which I find rather contradicting.
How do they conclude (or think as you put it) that an orchid is exceptional?
There are more than numerically measurable, hence objectional aspects and that is where their personal tastes and such come into play, is it not??

It is alright. 
I don't want to start a whole war on this subject as it had been here before and some people tend to be quite overly sensitive as you seem to be here. 

Hence, I started out by saying I don't mean any harm and then went on to express my opinion.


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## SlipperKing (Mar 20, 2017)

That is true David. At least one judge liked it enough to nominate the plant for further consideration. 

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## SlipperKing (Mar 20, 2017)

Here is the summary score card for the micranthum v. eburneum. I also included the three micranthums the support team pulled for the judges to read over and to use as a bases for comparison. 









Hopefully it's large enough to read. No were did I see on the 3 awarded plants did it mention eburneum. 

Added note: in pencil at the top of the micranthums they looked up they write the total number awarded. In this case 178 plants for AOS. *I just notice my phone# at the bottom of the page! I should of blocked that out. I don't need you guys bugging me to buy the thing! LOL*

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## Happypaphy7 (Mar 20, 2017)

Regarding the name, does the judging system not recognize the difference or did they forget??

By the way, I thought Huntington's micranthum was not eburneum?
I have no idea about Glen's plant.


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## SlipperKing (Mar 20, 2017)

Happypaphy7 said:


> Regarding the name, does the judging system not recognize the difference or did they forget??
> 
> By the way, I thought Huntington's micranthum was not eburneum?
> I have no idea about Glen's plant.



They do recognize variation and our judges do pull up the pictures of the plants they have the written description of. I think all three of these are the colored form.
I did not have a chance to set in with the team that awarded the eburneum but i could here talk and know it was going to be point scored. I was more interested in the ciliolare at the time and was with that team. The team that judged the delenatii did mention, as a general rule albas do run smaller then their counterpart.
I set with the lawrenceanum as well. The team was chomping at the bit to point score that plant but their biggest concern was the synsepal being larger then normal where by sticking out past the pouch if photographed I had to bite my tongue! You can't say anything unless you are directly ask a question. They were so concerned what other judging centers would think if they awarded a plant that was imperfect in anyway. I wanted so badly to pull out my cell phone and show them the pic I had taken, minimizing the synsepal effect. No can do. What they really need to do is take a pic with their own cell phones and they would see for themselves.


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## Tom-DE (Mar 20, 2017)

I like the del. album. Mine is blooming also and it has great white rose fragrance, how is yours?


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## Happypaphy7 (Mar 20, 2017)

SlipperKing said:


> They do recognize variation and our judges do pull up the pictures of the plants they have the written description of. I think all three of these are the colored form.
> I did not have a chance to set in with the team that awarded the eburneum but i could here talk and know it was going to be point scored. I was more interested in the ciliolare at the time and was with that team. The team that judged the delenatii did mention, as a general rule albas do run smaller then their counterpart.
> I set with the lawrenceanum as well. The team was chomping at the bit to point score that plant but their biggest concern was the synsepal being larger then normal where by sticking out past the pouch if photographed I had to bite my tongue! You can't say anything unless you directly ask a question. They were so concerned what other judging centers would think if they awarded a plant that was imperfect in anyway. I wanted so badly to pull out my cell phone and show them the pic I had taken, minimizing the synsepal effect. No can do. What they really need to do is take a pic with their own cell phones and they would see for themselves.



Well, a lot of dramas are involved.


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## SlipperKing (Mar 21, 2017)

Tom-DE said:


> I like the del. album. Mine is blooming also and it has great white rose fragrance, how is yours?



It does have a weak scent and your description fits well. It's nothing like the vinicolor clone, same scent but very powerful.



Happypaphy7 said:


> Well, a lot of dramas are involved.



No Sh*t!


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## Stone (Mar 21, 2017)

Happypaphy7 said:


> David, I have more than basic understanding of how orchid judging works. I am just not interested in that world. Even then, I can express my opionion, right?
> 
> It is sort of about what they like or not, too. In your own words, you sort of said it, too, where you said "It is not about what they like. It is whether the judges think the orchid is..." which I find rather contradicting.
> How do they conclude (or think as you put it) that an orchid is exceptional?
> ...



HP,
I agree with you 100%. Watching them scurry about with their little measuring sticks and their little colour cards....Please!
IMO, The whole orchid judging game is a huge joke. Having observed it from a distance for many years and looked closely at the various results. There are more questions than answers. It's obviously very subjective. Not withstanding the parameters they supposedly need to stick to, the variations among the results for similar species judged in different places can be massive. Some examples good, some highly questionable. Yet we see the same award given. Local orchid politics is so obviously coming into play. It should not but it does. No question about it. Competition between one club or organization and another leading to distorted views.
Then we have new species given awards simply because they are new species or because a particular group of judges have never had the opportunity to award this or that plant so they do whether it deserves it or not. I have seen this too many times. I could post examples but that would be unfair to the owners of the plants. The number of times I have seen highly awarded species which to any reasonable observer are just average examples are numerous. How can any value be placed on the decisions being made? The truth is there cannot be. There should not be.
Orchid judging needs to be exposed for what it is. A side show.
I have been asked on several occasions to have my plants judged. I have done so a couple of times but no more. I want nothing to do with the whole process. The only award I see merit in is cultural certificates which recognize the true ability on of the grower.
Another side of the judging process is that it has placed pressure on those desiring to win awards to alter traits of the original species so much that they lose true botanical validity. There are more negative side to the process as well. Jealousy, resentment, exclusiveness. 
A formal recognition of plant quality? ....As if a plant could give a **** what it looks like. The award is not for the plant, it's for the owner who happens to be lucky enough to acquire a nice flower. Good luck to him but really!!!... Big f***g deal. Why does that need to be formally recognized?

Orchid judging....F**k Off.


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## eaborne (Mar 22, 2017)

Congratulations Rick!


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## Stone (Mar 22, 2017)

Ozpaph said:


> If they thought the eburneum was small why did they award it.



This is exactly (one of my) point. Meaningless.
90% of _these_ should be awarded too.......https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...SAhXJq5QKHcwuDzwQsAQIGA&biw=1920&bih=910#spf=
Are to hell with it, let's just award _everything!_:rollhappy:
I tell you, it would be funny if it wasn't so blatantly ridiculous and worse, everyone just plods along thinking it's all just hunky dory.


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## Don I (Mar 22, 2017)

I'm just some dork that grows orchids and this year for the very first time I received 2 awards. The first time I was all excited. The second maybe a little less so but I still enjoyed it. Our society goes to 5 shows. They award a number of plants at every show. I think it is like a dog show or a horse show awards or championships are primarily for the breeders and some self promotion. I enjoy getting ribbons too. It's like getting a gold star on your homework. I think it's just a bit of harmless fun.
Don


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## Don I (Mar 22, 2017)

Sorry I forgot. Congratulations, 3 out of 7 is not too shabby.
Don.


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## Tom-DE (Mar 22, 2017)

SlipperKing said:


> It does have a weak scent and your description fits well. It's nothing like the vinicolor clone, same scent but very powerful.



My normal color(pink) del. has no fragrance that I can detect but my white one has strong fragrance...I guess it all depends on each individual plant.


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## SlipperKing (Mar 23, 2017)

Wow Mike somebody did you wrong in the past! When I started getting serious about orchids in the late 80's early 90's I too had my ego bruised when told my plant wasn't good enough. I got over it and kept taking plants back. Each time I got a better understanding of the process. I never played politics, I never kiss anyone's A$$, I just kept plugging along. These days its no big deal if plant is awarded or not. I of course get a kick out of it if one does get an award. For me that's one of joys of this hobby. Like Don I said harmless fun if you look at in the correct light.
I like to know how my plants stand against the pack and at least, my judging community is not stupid. They know when they're looking at an inferior plant previously awarded else were. Another joy I get out of slippers is the opportunity to educate the judging community about our slippers. Many times they have never seen or rarely so, some of the species I bring in. I often hear misconceptions of why a slipper is the way it is. I always politely correct any misunderstandings but only after judging is over of course. I think over the years I have improved upon their understanding as well as my own.


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## Stone (Mar 23, 2017)

SlipperKing said:


> > Wow Mike somebody did you wrong in the past! When I started getting serious about orchids in the late 80's early 90's I too had my ego bruised when told my plant wasn't good enough.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## li'l frog (Mar 24, 2017)

Perhaps judging in Australia is different than judging in the US.


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## SlipperFan (Mar 27, 2017)

Congratulations, Rick. WOW!!!


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## tnyr5 (Mar 28, 2017)

Stone, why are you showing us pics of awards that are 30+ years old to support your case?


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## Stone (Apr 20, 2017)

tnyr5 said:


> Stone, why are you showing us pics of awards that are 30+ years old to support your case?



Because they support me case. Still goes on today. Just last year there was an award given to a VERY average leucochilum. When I asked one of the judges why it had been awarded, they told me ''because we haven't given an award to that species yet''
Need any more?


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## NYEric (Apr 21, 2017)

Together we can fix the judging system. We will make AOS great again!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZn8tFbISpo
Let me know if this works. :evil:


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## tnyr5 (Apr 21, 2017)

Stone said:


> Because they support me case. Still goes on today. Just last year there was an award given to a VERY average leucochilum. When I asked one of the judges why it had been awarded, they told me ''because we haven't given an award to that species yet''
> Need any more?



Well, if you want to sway many opinions, yes. I'm not trying to disparage your position; you could very well be right and I think you would find that a surprising number of judges would side with you. However, because the standard is progressive, examples from so long ago are almost meaningless. A lot can happen with judging in 30-40 years, and very few clones from that era would stand up to today's standards (regardless of whether or not those standards are correct). I think your argument would carry a lot more weight with recent examples.


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