# Does anybody know how slow Canadian pstal service is?



## Hien (Mar 6, 2008)

I hope someone who lives in Canada or had experience in shipping/receiving mail from Canada can clarify this scenario for me.
Is it average? normally expected?
I (am in New Jersey,USA) got something sent to me from Gloucester, Ontario, Canada. on feb 25, 2008. The sender using something called EXPEDITED (by the Canadian postal service)
It was transferred to Montreal, Quebec the next day Feb, 26,2008.
There, the tracking number keep saying: Item processed at postal facility" to today March 06,2008 (They've been processing it for 10 days already). How many inches, does the package moves per day in that facility?
I could have sending my Mexican buddy up there to bring the package back. He would have cross that border in 5 second already. By the way the package contain some ceramic bowls, not CITES orchid good.

If they called it EXPEDITED, what does the normal mail service like?


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## Kyle (Mar 6, 2008)

Sometimes packages get held up at US customs. They search them at their leisure.

It works both ways, sometime stuff we order from the US takes a long time to reach us.

Kyle


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## gonewild (Mar 6, 2008)

The Postal Service (USPS) is not very good at updating their tracking information. As Kyle said it is probably held up in Customs, but once it is released the postal service will deliver it in an expedited way. You can have your local Postmaster track it since it was sent expedited.


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## Candace (Mar 6, 2008)

I mailed something to Canada once and it took forever...like almost a month to get there? I started receiving threats from the person that I hadn't shipped what they purchased and were threatening legal action. It wasn't worth the hassle and I won't be shipping anything to Canada again!


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## smartie2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

hmmm... I have not run into a incident like Candace's.

I do know there are ppl in USA who won't who anything here unfortunately. even if it is ok with customs

BTW the ****ing customs agents took a wack load of American Cultivated ginseng from my dad and customs sent a letter stating it is an Appendix II product. Then we provided proof of purchase and that it is cultivated and still they did not return the ginseng. They should have just returned it to the sender (my aunt) than to take the expensive products, otherwise I would not blame the agent for stealing. 10lb of gensing is allowed and we were under, and I can't believe my aunt declared ginsing on the customs label too (just cause unneccessary trouble). I cannot do anything now b/c my dad is in Asia and its probably past the appeal date now. Plus the office is far away in Vancouver or I would go there myself. They know very well it is legal ginseng and they took it, possibly for themself

If you pay the high price of overnight shipping. I think anything can go across the border. I get the feeling they don't check


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## Hien (Mar 6, 2008)

Thanks for the answers guys.
It is just some vietnamese ceramic bowls that I bidded on Ebay.
The government of Vietnam auctioned off (150,000 items from a 15th century shipwreck) a few years ago with Bonham/Butterfield in a few locations in the West.
So it is not out of ordinary that it is slow, from what everybody said .
I check with both USPS and Canadapost. Both tracking says the items is being process in the facility in Montreal, Quebec. I guess it has not been transfered across the border yet.
Would something likes express mail (EMS) forces them to send/transfer/release the package faster?


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## Hien (Mar 6, 2008)

smartie2000 said:


> hmmm... I have not run into a incident like Candace's.
> 
> I do know there are ppl in USA who won't who anything here unfortunately. even if it is ok with customs
> 
> ...



They definitely stole your stuff (If they did not send it back to the original sender)
Maybe , you can write to your congressmen/women to have these thing investigated. Write your complain to television stations , they may do feature report on the postal rats, maybe it will make them look bad enough, that they may gag & spit those ginsengs back out.


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## gonewild (Mar 6, 2008)

Hien said:


> Would something likes express mail (EMS) forces them to send/transfer/release the package faster?



No. Customs is immune to the postal service. You really don't want to make them mad at you either, remember they are profilers. Just be patient. We ship items (not plants) to Canada all the time. Everything always arrives but sometimes Canadian customs holds packages for up to 2 months without processing them. Is it legal to export antiquities from Canada?


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## Kyle (Mar 6, 2008)

I don't know if its illegal to exprt antiques. Maybe antiques/artifacts that have to do with our heritge/native people. I would think the custums agents are not 'up' on thier antique vietnamese bowls.

Also, in Hiens case, its the US guys causing the delays.

Candace, sorry to hear that you've let one bad apple spoil the bunch.

Kyle


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## Hien (Mar 6, 2008)

gonewild said:


> No. Customs is immune to the postal service. You really don't want to make them mad at you either, remember they are profilers. Just be patient. We ship items (not plants) to Canada all the time. Everything always arrives but sometimes Canadian customs holds packages for up to 2 months without processing them. Is it legal to export antiquities from Canada?


 You mean the customs on both side of the border? is it under jurisdiction of the sender's country Custom? or the receiver's country Custom? or both?
What do you mean by profiling?
I am not sure what canadian policy is on what so called (or definition of )antiques. But these things were auctioned off legally by the Vietnamese government to countries in the West. They accompanied with paper work, sealed, signature from the Vietnamese government VISAL & the salvage company SAGA. And the seller sell worldwide. So I assume they should have no problem.
Although, it is 15th century, it is not really antiquity like few thousands year old greek / egyptian stuffs.


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## Candace (Mar 6, 2008)

> Candace, sorry to hear that you've let one bad apple spoil the bunch.


 Yes, you're right about the one bad apple. I hadn't thought about it that way. I would probably ship again(not plants) but only to someone I knew was very understanding about the possible hold-ups.


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## gonewild (Mar 6, 2008)

Hien said:


> You mean the customs on both side of the border? is it under jurisdiction of the sender's country Custom? or the receiver's country Custom? or both?



Both, export and import.



> What do you mean by profiling?



They are looking for terrorist and other illegal activities and they have a profile of behavior they look for when someone brings something across the border.. Anyone who questions their methods can easily become a suspect.



> I am not sure what canadian policy is on what so called (or definition of )antiques. But these things were auctioned off legally by the Vietnamese government to countries in the West. They accompanied with paper work, sealed, signature from the Vietnamese government VISAL & the salvage company SAGA. And the seller sell worldwide. So I assume they should have no problem.



If they are accompanied by paper work then that would mean some customs agent will need to verify the paperwork. That could eaisly explain a delay.



> Although, it is 15th century, it is not really antiquity like few thousands year old greek / egyptian stuffs.



I doubt customs would see it like that. They were valuable enough to bother auctioning off? I bet they show up sometime and they won't be stolen, maybe confiscated though! oke:


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## Hien (Mar 6, 2008)

gonewild said:


> Both, export and import.
> 
> They are looking for terrorist and other illegal activities and they have a profile of behavior they look for when someone brings something across the border.. Anyone who questions their methods can easily become a suspect.
> 
> I doubt customs would see it like that. They were valuable enough to bother auctioning off? I bet they show up sometime and they won't be stolen, maybe confiscated though! oke:



I am always feel weird of the authority. Has anyone else also feel funny, whenever you drive by a police car (even you did not do any illegal turn, speeding etc..)

You mean they will use those bowls to contain Fren's ginseng


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## Hien (Mar 6, 2008)

Kyle said:


> I don't know if its illegal to exprt antiques. Maybe antiques/artifacts that have to do with our heritge/native people. I would think the custums agents are not 'up' on thier antique vietnamese bowls.
> 
> Also, in Hiens case, its the US guys causing the delays.
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the info,Kyle, as long as it comes, it is ok.
I just do not want the thing to languish in some warehouse for years.
With all the delay, it may become real antique by the time you get your stuff.


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## Jorch (Mar 7, 2008)

Yes, customs on both sides usually is the cause of delays. Also, they don't care about fragile stickers. Everything, fragile or not, get dumped automatically from the cargo into the sortation belts, it's only luck and good packing that fragile items are receive in one piece. 

Fren, no, customs won't steal your ginseng. You'd be surprise how much ginseng/birdnests/other valuation medicine and goods customs seize each day. Even if you send in all the paper works, Vancouver is so under-staffed that probably no one has time to look at your paper (or appeal, whatever you want to call it) and fish your package from the warehouse. Afterall, finding a <10 lbs package of ginseng amongst the thousand packages takes a bit of time and labour. And of course, CFIA plays a role in determining if the package should be release or not too...


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## smartie2000 (Mar 7, 2008)

I do hope Hien that you get your bowl. I'm very curious what it looks like!
I love asian art. I think the oldest vase I have is the one my grandma brought here when she first immigrated. All our other vases are more recent productions.

My fingers are crossed that we get our ginseng back from their drug stash. lol
I hope they are just slow. Its been since December. They send us a empty box with paper and the green tea my aunt also sent. I noticed the wrote a red D on the box, whatever that means

I always get the sender to make the customs label as vague as possible. The parcel will go through smoother. 
My aunt listed all the contents and every detail. This aunt thinks she knows it all (being the eldest) and said plant and aquariums were a health hazard when she visited, and told me to trash them. I was so insulted as I have plenty of both as my expensive hobbies. She is so full of it, my mom laughs bout it all the time :rollhappy:

The reason my dad needed the ginseng was b/c he was going to gift them when he went back to his town in china (after 30yrs!). I supposed he thought it would be cheaper to get the armerican gingseng from america so he got my know it all aunt to send some. Guess what, when my dad went to China he took all my mom's supply of good ginseng without asking, so my mom wasn't happy. His ginseng valued in a couple hundred $. My dad should have just gave red envelopes with Canadian bills than go through that trouble, that money can buy lots.


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## NYEric (Mar 7, 2008)

"D stands for delicious." _Candian customs official_


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## NYEric (Mar 7, 2008)

Yes Hien, I feel profiled. Next time I get bothered by a cop I'll ask him if 'driving while black' is a serious crime.


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## Heather (Mar 7, 2008)

Interesting discussion. I recently purchased something in NH, but because the vendor was Canadian, I couldn't take it with me and he had to get it back to Quebec and then ship it to me. It was sent Priority overnight fedex and still got caught in customs for an extra day. Arrived safely though, thank goodness!


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## NYEric (Mar 7, 2008)

That's insane.


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## arcticshaun (Mar 7, 2008)

Canada Post is very slow to update their tracking information. I've received items that were listed as being processed at a post office 3,000 km away.

Shaun


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## smartie2000 (Apr 7, 2008)

My Ginseng was confiscated by customs and will be 'disposed of'. My first true experience with CITES.... It is a pain in the ass! and I am only dealing with appendix II species too! I had written two letters already, even asking the ginseng returned to the USA, but the officer still refused. I don't know what else to write. I think his response is pathetic and he just keeps sending me the website to CITES after each response and repeats I must have a permit.
I think I must find a way to get a change with these dumb policies

Hien you have your bowl right?


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## Roth (Apr 7, 2008)

smartie2000 said:


> My Ginseng was confiscated by customs and will be 'disposed of'. My first true experience with CITES.... It is a pain in the ass! and I am only dealing with appendix II species too! I had written two letters already, even asking the ginseng returned to the USA, but the officer still refused. I don't know what else to write. I think his response is pathetic and he just keeps sending me the website to CITES after each response and repeats I must have a permit.
> I think I must find a way to get a change with these dumb policies
> 
> Hien you have your bowl right?



For Panax ginseng, either it is the fake ginseng ( Panax qinquefolius), or only the Panax ginseng coming from the Federation of russia. For those, only the roots alone are concened... See www.cites.org


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## Hien (Apr 8, 2008)

smartie2000 said:


> My Ginseng was confiscated by customs and will be 'disposed of'. My first true experience with CITES.... It is a pain in the ass! and I am only dealing with appendix II species too! I had written two letters already, even asking the ginseng returned to the USA, but the officer still refused. I don't know what else to write. I think his response is pathetic and he just keeps sending me the website to CITES after each response and repeats I must have a permit.
> I think I must find a way to get a change with these dumb policies
> 
> Hien you have your bowl right?



Yes, I got it.
Exactly as Shaun mentioned, After I received it, I went on the Canadian postal service website to check. It still says the package is processing.


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## Jorch (Apr 8, 2008)

From the CITES Canada website:
-----
CITES Appendix II
Specimen imported into Canada must be accompanied by export permit

The exportation of cultivated American ginseng (Panax quinquefolius) always requires a Canadian CITES export permit issued by the Canadian Wildlife Service. The requirement for CITES permits applies only to live ginseng plants and to whole and sliced ginseng roots and parts of ginseng roots.
-------

Fren, I'm not sure if it is fair to blame the Canada Customs or Canadian Wildlife Services for confiscating your ginseng if it was exported without a proper permit. oke: And even if it was sent with a vague label, the dogs can easily sniff out packages that contains plant and animal products.. oke:


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## Tom499 (Apr 8, 2008)

I've read alot about the troubles spent shipping things between Canada and USA, why are the regulations so high and take so long?


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## Gcroz (Apr 8, 2008)

I placed an order with a Canadian grower and was assured there would be no problems with CITEs as they will deal with all the paper work, being "fully certified". It should be interesting as the plants I ordered are all flask grown plants scheduled Appendix I. So, it's a crap shoot as to whether the plants will be allowed in, even though technically they are legal.

Wish me luck, I know I'll need it.

Sorry to hear about the ginseng. It's issues like this that remind me how faulty CITES is, despite its great intentions. But then again, we all know where the road paved with good intentions leads.


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## NYEric (Apr 8, 2008)

So far, in my experience, CITES = crap-shoot!


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## smartie2000 (Apr 9, 2008)

I'm glad that you got your bowl Hien.

What is frustrating is that CITES does not differentiate between wild collected and cultivated plants. In response to my second letter, he wrote that my ginseng had to be certitfied as cultivated, and nobody usually goes to a chinese herbal store asking for this certification (at least to my knowledge). I feel like writing a third letter though I know this is a one sided debate, he is in control no matter what I write. The officer is just strictly following the policies, and even though reasoning in my letters was rational.

I do have a package of wild collected ginseng, and the roots do not look the same as the others, though I am not an expert on whether it is the same species or why they look so different. And my mom seems to know what is good stuff visually...

BTW, this ginseng would have been fine if they were handcarried, according to the officer in the first letter (in response to the note attached to the receipt from the vendor stating that 10lb is allowed for import). Makes no sense to me what the diff between mailing and hand harrying, the end result is the same.

My aunt had no bad intentions in sending the material and it was not a attempted smuggle as she did not know. The package remains confiscated and could not be dispatched back to my aunt, again using permits for his reasoning. ...My dad doesn't care anymore, some reason I still have the drive to get the ginseng back

There will always be a demand and trade for orchids or ginseng, etc. I will have to write to someone (maybe my Member of Parliament?) about these extremist conservation policies eventually....they are not helping anyone, as most of us are aware, especially when so many good people are spending years to cultivate the plants when they could be illegally harvested. we need change, getting permits is costly for small imports and annoying. It's going to be tough though.


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## Gcroz (Apr 9, 2008)

It's been my experience that when it comes to the government, btw this will be a generalization, logic and reason very rarely enter into their decisions. It's similar to the old saying that, " a court of law is no place to ever seek the truth." I feel sad that it seems to me that the only way anyone will ever listen to us orchid folks, and ginseng folks, is if we donate huge sums of money to politicians.

It's my feeling that CITES, no matter how well intentioned, is a body comprised of politically motivated people who are only out there to tell the side their government wants them to tell, and they do this for their own personal gain. Damn the truth. So, who benefits from all this? I would be interested to see the money trail, someone in a high place benefits from keepig the little guys from getting the plants.

Sorry about the rant, I just woke up and I'm afraid it was on the "wrong side of the bed". Hey, I even have a brother in law who is a Customs agent, but he doesn't count toward my diatribe. LOL


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