# Would like to show some of my seedlings



## Bjorn (Jan 8, 2013)

In may 2011 I received a flask of P. venustrum that is flowering for the first time now, after approx 1.5 years. This time I got 5 flowers on approximately 10 plants. Here they are, in 50mm(2 inch) square pots.




A view from above, the plants in front are mostly charlies (album and normal) received at the same time, no blooming yet




A close-up




This one was two weeks ahead of the others and got the petals curled up. Perhaps not perfect, but...




Some other flasklings, here malipoense deflasked in march 2012; recently potted. Amazing how they grow...To the left some recently potted micrantum var. eburneum. deflasked same day as the malipoense.



Tranlienianums also deflasked March 2012. 50mm pots




And so were also these vietnamense. Yummy leaves here. Astonished by their growth rate. also in 50mm pots




And YES! the substrate is mainly marble(grey) mixed with dolomite grit(white) plus some sand, leca and organics (minor amounts) - the venustrums have basically a bark based mix.


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## Secundino (Jan 8, 2013)

That is just stunning! Well done! When I realize that I've been growing seedlings of _callosum_ for five years now without reaching maturity... obviously I did something wrong. 
Btw, I like even the curled petals of that _venustum_. It may be no award winner, but its quite the species way. Where did you get the seelings from?
Great leaves, omg!


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## emydura (Jan 8, 2013)

They certainly look good. That is an amazingly short time to flowering. You leave me for dead.


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## Bjorn (Jan 8, 2013)

Secundino said:


> That is just stunning! Well done! When I realize that I've been growing seedlings of _callosum_ for five years now without reaching maturity... obviously I did something wrong.
> Btw, I like even the curled petals of that _venustum_. It may be no award winner, but its quite the species way. Where did you get the seelings from?
> Great leaves, omg!



The flasks are from Hung Sheng, Taiwan through Formosa Orchids(http://www.orchids.com.tw/).
B


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## Secundino (Jan 8, 2013)

*thanks*

Thank you, I've seen that site - far to expensive for me, minimum order as well... so I stick to the pics in this forum!:rollhappy:


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## NYEric (Jan 8, 2013)

Secundino said:


> Thank you, I've seen that site - far to expensive for me, minimum order as well... so I stick to the pics in this forum!:rollhappy:



European group order?

Nice plants, and astonishing growth w/ the venustums.


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## Dido (Jan 8, 2013)

congrats for this nice group of plants, the vietnamense looks really happy with you. 
Keep us posted about your plants


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## Bjorn (Jan 8, 2013)

NYEric said:


> European group order?
> 
> Nice plants, and astonishing growth w/ the venustums.



No, I do it myself. After all total costs do not get too bad, some 50% above the listed prices. Exchange rates are favourable for us now and flasks slide easily through customs - if the right paperwork is done. At the last import I had some hilarious request though, they(Norwegian authorities) requested a "declaration on Thrips palmi (Karmi). The declaration should contain a statement that the shipment has undergone treatment warranting that Thysanoptera (Thrips) is not present". For flasks!:rollhappy:
Norway is not a member of the EU and the import is a bit less restrictive, but still things have to be done right. Feel I have a relativley good grip on it though. The problem in importing flasks is of course that sales is difficult, few norwegians are into paphs (or any orchid for that sake) so getting rid of excess gets difficult.
The seedlings are fed with K-lite from Ray by the way. some 3-400ppm dissolved in rainwater, every time.


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## Dido (Jan 8, 2013)

for some of them we could find a good home......


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## Bjorn (Jan 8, 2013)

Dido said:


> for some of them we could find a good home......



yeah! if we only got them across the border:sob: As Norway is not a member of the EU, phyto certificate and CITES is necessary, and I am (although it may look differently) only a hobbyist hooked on this passion (for 25 years almost)
Bjorn


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## Susie11 (Jan 8, 2013)

Great collection of seedlings. Your venustum's look great.


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## wjs2nd (Jan 8, 2013)

Great looking seedlings! Have you find the mable add anything to the plant/mix? I know dolomite can has some benefits.


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## Secundino (Jan 8, 2013)

*excess...*

I should move to Norway. Its funny, never think like that _Norway_ is not EU, but of course, it is not. It seems so 'near' ...
I learned most I know about orchid-care with a norwegian hobbyist, Hjalmar Elmberg, who lived near to where I went to school, some 35 years ago. Now that I got addicted again, I miss his advices sometimes, but though he passed away long ago, he left me his old books and lots of information I'm recalling now and then. He grew mostly Paphios, and even got to sell them as pot-flowers and cut-flowers back in the seventies.


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## Bjorn (Jan 8, 2013)

wjs2nd said:


> Great looking seedlings! Have you find the mable add anything to the plant/mix? I know dolomite can has some benefits.



Good question! Where is Rick? I added that for him! 
I like the marble for several reasons:
i)Chemistry: I believe the marble and dolomite is relatively inert, in the sense that it does not dissolve readily. It may adjust pH slightly and counteract acid conditions, but slowly. This process will of course release some Ca and Mg which is beneficial. But basically inert. I always add some sand, think that silicon is important and underestimated. Have to do some research on that.
ii)Particle packing: equally sized particles give an airy particle packing that allows roots and air access. Water retention is adjusted with bark, moss leaves etc but not so much of it. It is perfect for potting, free-flowing and fills up between roots without disturbance.
iii) longivety: I have experieced that it is not necessary to repot very often. Infrequent repotting requires a potting mix that does not break down. Part of that is that it should consist of material with small or neglible cation-exchange-capacity CEC. I believe that saturation of the mix with cations (like potassium, K) is one of the most important reasons for the need for frequent repotting. I think that Rick agrees with me here. Generally, orchids are ill affected by too much nutrients, its better to stay on the low side. CEC makes it impossible(difficult) to flush out excess. CEC is normally a function of surface area, so dense, coarse particles minimises CEC. Fertiliser should be added in all(at least during growth season) water in small amounts. I use a total of 3-400ppm TDS.
iiii) Stability. heavy aggregates (relatively) makes the small pots more stable with a larger fan of leaves. Its practical for small pots but perhaps not that practical for large multifloras. For those I add liberal amounts of expanded clay aggregates as well.
My thoughts in a (coco)nutshell:clap:
Bjorn


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## Bjorn (Jan 8, 2013)

Secundino said:


> I should move to Norway. Its funny, never think like that _Norway_ is not EU, but of course, it is not. It seems so 'near' ...
> I learned most I know about orchid-care with a norwegian hobbyist, Hjalmar Elmberg, who lived near to where I went to school, some 35 years ago. Now that I got addicted again, I miss his advices sometimes, but though he passed away long ago, he left me his old books and lots of information I'm recalling now and then. He grew mostly Paphios, and even got to sell them as pot-flowers and cut-flowers back in the seventies.



Secun,
never heard of Hjalmar, its before my time. Where did you study and where do you live now?
Bjorn


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## The Orchid Boy (Jan 8, 2013)

Nice looking seedlings you have. It's amazing that the venustums are flowering already. I wish I had the room for that many seedlings. I love to watch seedlings grow up.


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## Rick (Jan 8, 2013)

Bjorn said:


> Good question! Where is Rick? I added that for him!
> I like the marble for several reasons:
> i)Chemistry: I believe the marble and dolomite is relatively inert, in the sense that it does not dissolve readily. It may adjust pH slightly and counteract acid conditions, but slowly. This process will of course release some Ca and Mg which is beneficial. But basically inert. I always add some sand, think that silicon is important and underestimated. Have to do some research on that.
> ii)Particle packing: equally sized particles give an airy particle packing that allows roots and air access. Water retention is adjusted with bark, moss leaves etc but not so much of it. It is perfect for potting, free-flowing and fills up between roots without disturbance.
> ...



That's phenomenal growth Bjorn!! I agree with your strategy.

I'm at work and gotta run.


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## annab (Jan 8, 2013)

thanks for show us.
just for curiosity ,is it natural light in the pics? or not .I believe that gravel of marble is an beautiful element for paphs ,because it bring calcium and because is inert material , but i think that it don't work well if the plant are not in greenhouse or without high level of umidity around. what is the temp inside your gh and the umidity level?and how many hours stay the plant without light?if they stay, I intend complete dark? thanks in advance.
anyways yours venustum are very nice,and you have had an excellent results in such short time too
congrats,anna


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## JeanLux (Jan 9, 2013)

As already stated, impressive growing Bjorn :clap: !!!!

btw. where do you find the marble? Jean


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## Bjorn (Jan 9, 2013)

annab said:


> thanks for show us.
> just for curiosity ,is it natural light in the pics? or not .I believe that gravel of marble is an beautiful element for paphs ,because it bring calcium and because is inert material , but i think that it don't work well if the plant are not in greenhouse or without high level of umidity around. what is the temp inside your gh and the umidity level?and how many hours stay the plant without light?if they stay, I intend complete dark? thanks in advance.
> anyways yours venustum are very nice,and you have had an excellent results in such short time too
> congrats,anna



Anna, you have probaly already figured out that the pics are dominated by the HPS lights in the green-house. I tried with flash, and that was sucessful for the seedlings, but the venustrums got pale and ugly, so I choose the yellow pics. I know it makes them look a bit strange-they are nicer in reality
You have a point with the gravel, but water retention can be adjusted by additions of moss etc. The greenhouse conditions are variable; in winter I try to maintain some 17-25 C during daytime and 6-10 at night; in summer 17-20 at night and 25-30 at day. I must add that the greenhouse have two compartments, this is the "cold" the other has 12-18C minimum at day during winter and that is where my multifloras etc reside. Lighting is on for 10hours now 12 in summer. Humidity is regulated(at least I try) to be some 80%, in practice 75-100%.
Btw the lighting povides some 800-1000 fc, the venustrums probably lower as they are in a dark corner.


jeanlux said:


> As already stated, impressive growing Bjorn !!!!
> 
> btw. where do you find the marble? Jean



Jean, the marble was bought in the local nursery as decorative stone. I am always on the lookout for such things and it can frequently be found for decorative purposes. The Dolomite grit is from a dolomite mine in the north of Norway, got it from a personal contact. Milled dolomite is commonly used in Norway as "lime" to increase soil pH. Since it is carbonate of calcium and magnesium, it does normally not increase pH to much above neutral so quite safe.
Bjorn


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## paphioboy (Jan 9, 2013)

Those are some gorgeous seedlings! I wish you lived closer so I can snap up your excess seedlings..


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## Bjorn (Jan 9, 2013)

paphioboy said:


> Those are some gorgeous seedlings! I wish you lived closer so I can snap up your excess seedlings..



So would I Paphio,
Just imagine how they get when grown ups. Btw, I have a flask of topperi starting to show that problem, 20 of those simply take a lot of space:rollhappy:
Bjorn


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## Stone (Jan 10, 2013)

Bjorn said:


> In may 2011 I received a flask of P. venustrum that is flowering for the first time now, after approx 1.5 years. This time I got 5 flowers on approximately 10 plants. Here they are, in 50mm(2 inch) square pots.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very well grown! I am also astonished at the growth rate of the vietnamense!
Mine are amoung the slowest of all!


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## Dido (Jan 11, 2013)

Stone said:


> Very well grown! I am also astonished at the growth rate of the vietnamense!
> Mine are amoung the slowest of all!



where did you get the flask of vietnamense from is it from Hilmar too, or a import from asia. Mine are extremly slow growers too only the expetion is the new cross I have vietnamense X wenshanense they grow extremly fast for me. And the vendor is using a new potting mix and sanded me a plant now and it is even bigger then mine and this in 6 month out of flask.


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## Bjorn (Jan 11, 2013)

Dido said:


> where did you get the flask of vietnamense from is it from Hilmar too, or a import from asia. Mine are extremly slow growers too only the expetion is the new cross I have vietnamense X wenshanense they grow extremly fast for me. And the vendor is using a new potting mix and sanded me a plant now and it is even bigger then mine and this in 6 month out of flask.


The flasks are all from Hung-Sheng, so perhaps its a hybrid? On the other hand, I have another cross as well that is very similar in size and appearance, so guess its the genuine stuff. I have probably somehow hit the sweet-spot regarding growing conditions. As you may see, they are recently potted, the deflasking is done into trays with a somewhat similar mix, but finer. The mix is based on dolomite grit, sand , some bark, leca and moss, sterilized (microwawe is practical). Relatively similar except for the marble. The trays are actually mini-greenhouses with vents, sold for seed raising on the windowsill. Ok, the flasks are broken (if glass), the plants washed carefully and planted into a "ditch" in the substrate in rows. Then the lid on the greenhouse with closed vents and it all goes into a cabinet I built with heating and light. 2x250W CFL at 6400K + 1x250W at 2400K. gives approx 6-700 f.c at plants. 16 hours a day. Temperature 26C at day, 16 at night. Feeding with 3-400ppm K-lite in rainwater.
After 1-2 weeks the wents are carefully opened and kept open for most of the time.


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## Rick (Jan 11, 2013)

Bjorn

What is the total number of seedlings presently coming up in this system, the number of species, and any losses?


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## Marc (Jan 11, 2013)

Very nicely grown Bjorn, you seem to be very skilled in taking care of these orchid babies


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## Justin (Jan 11, 2013)

gorgeous seedlings, especially the vietnamense. Great growing! Also interested to hear how many seedlings and species, etc. from Rick's question.


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## cattmad (Jan 11, 2013)

great growing, I find vietnamense very fast growing


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## Bjorn (Jan 12, 2013)

Rick said:


> Bjorn
> 
> What is the total number of seedlings presently coming up in this system, the number of species, and any losses?



Difficult to answer, but every flask is approximately20 plants, sometimes more. Since 2011 i have had through at least 1 vietnamense, 1 tranlie, 1 micranthum, 1 malipo, 1 topperii, 1charlie alba, 1 charlie, 1 esquirolei alba, 1 roth, 2-3hangs, and 2 emersonii. All flasks. Generally without losses prior to potting. And of course the venustums.
But after potting and placement in the greenhouse, problems appear,particularly with hangianums and emersonii. Mostly due to erwinia. So a certain loss there is,but as i said, generally not before potting and greenhouse conditions.
The mix is of course adjusted according to the species.
Some other species have not been very successful, I am currently killing off the last few out of a flsk of tigrinums, received in march last year :sob
For some reason jackii does not like it neither, I might have missed with the substrate? As I said hangianum is a challenge but mostly after potting, not during the community stage. Also very slow.
Now in the pipeline are armeniacum, micranthum, stonei, helenae alba, one flask of each. And of course my randsii flask. And the anitum. The latter two are very slow growing but looks ok, has been in the community trays since march 2011 as far as I remember?. The first four are recently planted(in november 2012) but look ok with significant growth. 
Lots of plants in other words. Since I am an amateur (although the above may not seem so ) I have started to worry about what to do with the excess. After all, 20 grown up topperiis occupy quite some space
Statistics are unavailable on the plant level, but losses during the community stage are either almost none or almost entirely. Depending on species. 
I have found it much easier to raise plants in this special enclosure, devoid of infection from the outside. Placing the plants in a specially designed area in a location away from the greenhouse (mine is in our barn), sterilising the compot and using the mini greenhouses as additional barriers against infection, provides time for the plantlets to grow until they reach a size that better takes "life" in the greenhouse. But as said above, from then on life gets tough


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## Dido (Jan 12, 2013)

Barn do you have animal production at home, which ones.


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## Bjorn (Jan 12, 2013)

Dido said:


> Barn do you have animal production at home, which ones.



Not really, its more a shack, but we call it the barn. I live on a former farm though, so plenty of garden etc.
:wink:
Bjorn


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## Cheyenne (Jan 12, 2013)

Bjorn, how often do you water them in the marble mix? It seems like you would have to water alot unless the humidity is very high. I noticed some moss growing on top of the pots.


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## Stone (Jan 12, 2013)

Dido said:


> where did you get the flask of vietnamense from is it from Hilmar too, or a import from asia. Mine are extremly slow growers too only the expetion is the new cross I have vietnamense X wenshanense they grow extremly fast for me. And the vendor is using a new potting mix and sanded me a plant now and it is even bigger then mine and this in 6 month out of flask.



No I purchased 4 different seedling clones, but they all seem to be very slow---Slower than concolor and niveum....but growing:clap: I think maybe I watered too much in spring and damaged the roots?


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## Bjorn (Jan 13, 2013)

Cheyenne said:


> Bjorn, how often do you water them in the marble mix? It seems like you would have to water alot unless the humidity is very high. I noticed some moss growing on top of the pots.



Depends on the season, but every two to three days? during summer more often. I have quite a few mounted plants that needs water so hosing down additional areas is easily done. I probably do it to often, particularly now in winter. The moss takes time to establish on the marble, but eventually it does.
I am a bit ambivalent about it, on one side its indicative of healthy conditions, on the other side it tends to get too mich so I have to remove it.
Bjørn


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## biothanasis (Jan 13, 2013)

Fantastically well grown plantlets!!! Well done Bjorn!!!! :clap:


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## Justin (Jan 13, 2013)

great job, you have good taste in Paph species too. can't wait to see these all get bigger!


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## Justin (Jan 13, 2013)

also, which roth cross did you get?


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## chrismende (Jan 14, 2013)

What an informative thread, Bjorn! Could you tell us about, or perhaps show pictures of your seedling growing cabinet? I've been wanting to build something to warm my youngest deflasked seedlings and have a couple of small heat mats, but want to design a structure to incorporate heat. Is yours bottom heat? Is it warmed by the lights? and how do you ventilate it?


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## Brabantia (Jan 14, 2013)

Dido said:


> for some of them we could find a good home......



+1 me too !


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## Bjorn (Jan 22, 2013)

chrismende said:


> What an informative thread, Bjorn! Could you tell us about, or perhaps show pictures of your seedling growing cabinet? I've been wanting to build something to warm my youngest deflasked seedlings and have a couple of small heat mats, but want to design a structure to incorporate heat. Is yours bottom heat? Is it warmed by the lights? and how do you ventilate it?



Here you are Chris, 
quite primitive construction made from double-walled polycarbonate sheets. Remains from greenhouse construction Lights on top of a box with heating, fan and plants inside. Outside and lights covered with reflective "Mylar".
Closed cabinet.




Open, look inside




Vietnamense, with randsii in back. in front jackii that is not thriving. I try to kill off moss before it gets too bad. Deflasked in March 2012.




New (Nov. 2012) planting of armeniacum and stoneii




and micranthum and helenae album :rollhappy:




Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## NYEric (Jan 22, 2013)

Cool, thanks for the photos!


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## get (Jan 22, 2013)

:drool:

Impressive!! Thanks for the info and the photos!!


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## wjs2nd (Jan 22, 2013)

Very nice setup! Thanks for showing it off.


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## Dido (Jan 22, 2013)

thanks for that pics brings up a idea in me. 
Will try with my next flask


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## The Orchid Boy (Jan 23, 2013)

Cool set up!


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## Secundino (Jan 23, 2013)

Great! Thanks for sharing!


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## Justin (Jan 23, 2013)

looks like you get good quality flasks too!


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## biothanasis (Jan 26, 2013)

well done!!! great growing!!!!


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## chrismende (Feb 9, 2013)

Bjorne this is great! Thanks for the very useful discussion! How large overall is your grow-cabinet?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bjorn (Feb 10, 2013)

160x80x80(cm) approx.


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