# Paphiopedilums and photoperiod



## Damas (Oct 5, 2008)

Hello, I was wondering myself, for those who grows under lights, how long do you light them every day, and do you apply season changes to photoperiod ?


----------



## Gilda (Oct 5, 2008)

12 hours in the winter..14 hours in the summer


----------



## biothanasis (Oct 5, 2008)

Gilda, thanks for the info...


----------



## paphreek (Oct 5, 2008)

I give mine the same time year round.(14-15 hrs.) They might get a photo period difference from the sun as all my light carts are near windows. I try to supplement the artificial light with natural light where possible.


----------



## Ernie (Oct 5, 2008)

16 hours of light nearly year round. Garage is insulated, no natural light- 16 h all the time. Upstairs ex-bedroom- we back off a little in winter just so the neighbors don't get too suspicious; little indirect sun. 

-Ernie


----------



## TADD (Oct 5, 2008)

I agree with Ernie, I feel that slippers don't need the photoperiod change, maybe a temp change, but not light. Most of the slippers that I grow are from near the equator they get pretty similar light year round I guess. But than again look at how nice Ross's plants always look compard to mine.... :evil:


----------



## Damas (Oct 6, 2008)

Thank you All for answering ! I think it is very interesting to share such information. :clap:


----------



## Wendy (Oct 6, 2008)

Mine get 16 hours in the summer and 12 winter. They have no other source of light....only the HID lights.


----------



## Carol (Oct 6, 2008)

I do 16 hours a day, courtesy of Ernie, one of the speakers at our society.


----------



## Mrs. Paph (Oct 6, 2008)

I do ~16 summer, and ~14 winter. I don't know if there's a huge need for the change, but it makes me feel like I'm helping them know what season it is  lol And I can tell myself I'm saving just a little bit of $$ w/ the shorter duration for winter!


----------



## JeanLux (Oct 6, 2008)

Wendy said:


> Mine get 16 hours in the summer and 12 winter. They have no other source of light....only the HID lights.



Hi Wendy! the october issue of Orchids arrived in Lux. today! Just had the time for a brief look, but stopped at page 742: A Basement Greenhouse!! Is this the same Wendy??!! Jean


----------



## Wendy (Oct 6, 2008)

Yep. That would be me. I got my mag today as well....two weeks early!:clap:


----------



## goldenrose (Oct 6, 2008)

:clap::clap::clap: A celebrity among us!!!!


----------



## Damas (Oct 7, 2008)

Wow ! A Basement Greenhouse ! That sounds great Wendy ! :clap:


----------



## JeanLux (Oct 7, 2008)

Damas said:


> Wow ! A Basement Greenhouse ! That sounds great Wendy ! :clap:



a very good description of your growing area Wendy, congratulations for that!!!!! great pict. of the lady in her 'sunroom' with pets and plants around, a lot of really strong slippers!!! and great photo of the phrag. Nitidissimum and of Galeandra dives! :clap::clap::clap: Jean


----------



## Bolero (Oct 7, 2008)

Mine seem to flower with dramatic changes in photoperiod. I get 9.5 hours in winter and up to 16 hours in summer.

So I guess it depends on what you grow. My parvi's and complex hybrids do ok with the above conditions.


----------



## Kevin (Oct 8, 2008)

Ernie said:


> 16 hours of light nearly year round. Garage is insulated, no natural light- 16 h all the time. Upstairs ex-bedroom- we back off a little in winter just so the neighbors don't get too suspicious; little indirect sun.
> 
> -Ernie



I'm wondering why some growers give more than 12 hrs of light per day for their plants if grown under lights. Does this benefit the plants somehow? There is nowhere in the world that gets 16 hrs, or even 14 hrs of sun all year long. On top of that, there is extra cost having the lights on for that long. Please help.


----------



## Damas (Oct 8, 2008)

This is not exact and depends from the inclination of the planet Earth and it's position compared to the Sun. Here in Paris, in summer, for instance Day starts at 6:00am and sun won't go down before 10:00pm. You got your 16 hours. oke:

Oops, sorry I forgot to read the "All year long". I think the goal is not to reproduce natural conditions but just to get the best out of our plants.


----------



## Kevin (Oct 11, 2008)

Thanks. Anyone else?

Hey Wendy - I just got my mag on Thursday. Nice article! I was wondering which article people were talking about, then I got it in the mail! You must have got it early because of your article. A testament to the great Canada Post (or perhaps the border security) - mail from the U.S. can get to Luxembourg faster than to Canada!!!


----------



## Yoyo_Jo (Oct 16, 2008)

Wendy - it was great to read the article about your basement grow-op!  It was great.

I was wondering what you do for water in the winter time; don't your rain barrels freeze up?


----------



## Ernie (Oct 16, 2008)

Kevin,

Especially with fluorescents, one is usually well below the intensity the plants would wish for. Tacking on hours gives them the light they want just over an extended period. Like sipping a little tea all day versus sucking down a Red Bull (well sorta). Agricultural literature supports this. More than 16 h/day gives no benefit and can stress plants. Daylength sensitive plants of course would disagree. Paphs seem to love it. 

-Ernie


----------



## Kevin (Oct 16, 2008)

Ahh. Thanks. That helps. So, extended daylight does put stress on the plants. I hadn't thought of the low light intensity from growing under lights. How about HID bulbs? Is 16 hrs year-round good even with using these? I have all my plants outside for as long as they can take it, which, in a good year, is 4 months. Since there is a long day length here in the summer, when I bring them in, I give them 12 hrs, then 11, then back to 12 before bringing them back out in spring. I figure that gives them a seasonal change. Now, perhaps a lot of plants don't need this, but it can't hurt, and it saves money. I grow just about everything I can, and probably some of them appreciate the change, but I don't know. Like I said, it can't hurt. (I like the saving money part too ).


----------



## Ernie (Oct 17, 2008)

For us, the lights being on helps keep the heater from running in winter. The majority of our collection is in an insulated garage. In the western suburbs of Chicago, we see crazy hot summers (many 90+ F days) and pretty dang cold winters (a week or three of sub-zero in winter). We are 35 miles west of the Lake, so we get roughly the hottest summers and coldest winters of greater Chi-town here IMO. It's a tradeoff. In a completely "closed system" here, I'd reverse the seasons with the plants seeing the longer days in our freezing winters to benefit from the lights' heat, but shorter days in summer so the lights wouldn't add even more heat to our hot days here. If your plants grow and bloom, dont' mess with it IMO. 

-Ernie


----------



## goldenrose (Oct 17, 2008)

Kevin said:


> ..... I give them 12 hrs, then 11, then back to 12 before bringing them back out in spring. I figure that gives them a seasonal change. Now, perhaps a lot of plants don't need this, but it can't hurt, and it saves money. I grow just about everything I can, and probably some of them appreciate the change, but I don't know. Like I said, it can't hurt. (I like the saving money part too ).


 an hour makes a difference?


----------



## gonewild (Oct 17, 2008)

Ernie said:


> Kevin,
> 
> Especially with fluorescents, one is usually well below the intensity the plants would wish for. Tacking on hours gives them the light they want just over an extended period. Like sipping a little tea all day versus sucking down a Red Bull (well sorta). Agricultural literature supports this. More than 16 h/day gives no benefit and can stress plants. Daylength sensitive plants of course would disagree. Paphs seem to love it.
> 
> -Ernie



I'm not sure I would agree that more than 16 h/day will stress plants. 
In what way is the plant stressed by longer daylength?


----------



## Ernie (Oct 17, 2008)

gonewild said:


> I'm not sure I would agree that more than 16 h/day will stress plants.
> In what way is the plant stressed by longer daylength?



I've seen stressed plants that got *no* night that recovered after reducing the daylength to reasonable levels. Otherwise, probably won't make much difference if one did, say, 18h days.  I've stumbled across agricultural literature (probably soy beans or corn?) which said more than 16h might not hurt, but has no benefit (a waste of electricity beyond 16h essentially). Unfortunately, as far as I know, no such study has been done on orchids??? Make sense? 

-Ernie


----------



## Ray (Oct 18, 2008)

I think you've hit upon it, Ernie.

Just like feeding, in which the concentration of fertilizer times the frequency of application determines the mass of nutrients delivered - and we know too much can be a problem - it seems logical that plants probably have an upper limit on the "mass" (intensity x duration) of PAR photons they can accept before the ongoing "forced" photosynthetic chemical reactions interfere with- or overwhelm the others that go on.

It also wouldn't surprise me if some of those processes need darkness as a trigger to occur. I won't claim to know diddly about it, but don't CAM plants only open their stomata at night? Maybe a certain amount of darkness is required to allow time for the "balancing" reactions to catch up with those that occur in the light.


----------



## Kevin (Oct 18, 2008)

goldenrose said:


> an hour makes a difference?



If terms of the plants, probably not, but perhaps for some. For energy savings and money, yes, absolutely. I've got a 1000W HPS. I may even go down to 10 hrs.


----------



## musiclovertony (Jun 24, 2010)

This might sound crazy, but I actually check the weather channel every day and adjust my timer so that it coincides with the local sunrise and sunset. That way my plants experience seasonal changes at a less than shocking rate of change. 

Is there any reason I should not be doing this?


----------



## SlipperFan (Jun 24, 2010)

Interesting concept. But we live in an area that has long-day summers and short-day winters. I think the more tropical countries that most of our orchids come from have more even day-night periods throughout the year.


----------



## likespaphs (Jun 24, 2010)

musiclovertony said:


> This might sound crazy, but I actually check the weather channel every day and adjust my timer so that it coincides with the local sunrise and sunset. That way my plants experience seasonal changes at a less than shocking rate of change.
> 
> Is there any reason I should not be doing this?




the only reason i have for not doing it is that it's a pain in the...well, you know where.
there are timers out there that can do it automatically....


i think i remember an australian member of the forum who said that they have significant shade on his/her greenhouse because the days are so very long


----------



## Ernie (Jun 25, 2010)

musiclovertony said:


> Is there any reason I should not be doing this?



The only reason you _should_ match your daylength to Minneapolis' is if you're growing plants that grow in Minneapolis. Go to the weather channel and check the sunrise/set for Vietnam, India, Borneo, Thailand, China... Then consider Peru, Ecuador, Panama, etc for your Phrags. Then tack on a fudge factor for elevation...  You get the point. These things are tropical to sub-tropical. Most will see about 12 h light year round. But, Like I said earlier, for fluor gardens especially, growers give them barely enough light usually, so a slightly longer daylength will help offset that.


----------



## musiclovertony (Jun 25, 2010)

Ernie said:


> The only reason you _should_ match your daylength to Minneapolis' is if you're growing plants that grow in Minneapolis. Go to the weather channel and check the sunrise/set for Vietnam, India, Borneo, Thailand, China... Then consider Peru, Ecuador, Panama, etc for your Phrags. Then tack on a fudge factor for elevation...  You get the point. These things are tropical to sub-tropical. Most will see about 12 h light year round. But, Like I said earlier, for fluor gardens especially, growers give them barely enough light usually, so a slightly longer daylength will help offset that.



Oh you have a very good point. hmmm...so many things to consider! I grow with HID lighting, so I'm not worried about too little light. I think I might be giving too much light this time of year, since we're around 16 hours a day right now


----------



## SlipperFan (Jun 25, 2010)

musiclovertony said:


> Oh you have a very good point. hmmm...so many things to consider! I grow with HID lighting, so I'm not worried about too little light. *I think I might be giving too much light this time of year*, since we're around 16 hours a day right now


Just remember, these are *tropical* plants, not temperate...


----------



## Shiva (Jun 26, 2010)

Interesting reading! Thank you Ernie and all. It helps everyone to read about this. Though I still wonder if HID lamps require longer days.


----------



## Ernie (Jun 27, 2010)

Shiva said:


> Though I still wonder if HID lamps require longer days.



Depends on what's under them, how far, how hot, wattage, output spectrum...


----------

