# My kovachii X's



## Gilda (Dec 8, 2007)

Back in August I bit the bullet and bought 2 seedlings of Phrag wallisii 'Rapunzel' x kovachii 'Tupac Amaur' + a compot of Phrag longifolium x kovachii 'Goliath' from Chuck Acker.
I wanted to see how they would do before posting. I have been pleasantly surprised..like all compots you have plants that take off and others that are slower, but they have all grown well even the tiny baby that was attached . The wallisii X has been *very* vigourous with the largest plant even starting a second growth !
These spent the remainder of the summer outside, watered with rain water and fertilized every watering. Since bringing them inside for the winter, they sit on a South/West window sill, watered with our city water and fertilized with every watering. They are in a mix with bark, charcoal, coconut husk,etc., and I recently top dresed them with oyster shell. They are in a cup with a reservoir, similar to setting them in water..only the water is in the cup !
I thought you might enjoy seeing how they are doing.


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## SlipperFan (Dec 8, 2007)

Growin' good. Especially the center one.


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## isaias m rolando (Dec 10, 2007)

Yes, these are very nice growing phrags, so similar to a Phrag boissierianum specie or hybrids...

I think Mr Fisher should tell people what were the DNA results after the "mistakes in the lab" at this particular peruvian exporter of flask and Hybrids of Phrag kovachii.

The WOC is very close and orchid buyers should know all data before buying their dear future plants.


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## biothanasis (Dec 10, 2007)

Nice... good luck...


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## NYEric (Dec 10, 2007)

I'm not sure what Isaias is trying to say but the wallisii x Pk certainly looks like a Pk hybrid. Is there still a question about what's what?


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## goldenrose (Dec 10, 2007)

isaias m rolando said:


> I think Mr Fisher should tell people what were the DNA results after the "mistakes in the lab" at this particular peruvian exporter of flask and Hybrids of Phrag kovachii..



 To my knowledge/understanding there is only one lab that kovachii & it's hybrids came out of. I am under the impression that that 'mistake' is old history at this point, is there something more current you're referring to?



isaias m rolando said:


> The WOC is very close and orchid buyers should know all data before buying their dear future plants.



What is 'all this data' you're referring to? I've purchased from 2 different vendors in the U.S., the reciept lists a cross # & Peruflora. I'm not sure if I made a wise purchase?


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## NYEric (Dec 10, 2007)

There are lots of thoroughly annoyinig threads here because one of the labs [there are more than one] sold some products as Pk which were later found to be mis-labled. If you have the product I think you can get a resolution.


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## Kyle (Dec 10, 2007)

Your fine, hes just trying to stir up some s h i t. 

Peruflora sold some mislabled flasks to Chuck Acker and Jerry Fisher. The flasks were supposed to be pure kovachii species, but DNA test proved that they were in fact kovachii hybrids, but which hybrid won't be known until they bloom. It was blamed on a mistake in thier lab. 

All the flasks sold as hybrids from Peruflora have bloomed out correctly as far as I know. To my knowledge, kovachii x wallisii has not bloomed yet.

Thats what he's getting at.

Kyle

PS. There are 2 labs making flasks for export in Peru, Peruflora and Alfredo Manrique (who is good friends with Isaias)


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## Gilda (Dec 10, 2007)

isaias m rolando said:


> Yes, these are very nice growing phrags, so similar to a Phrag boissierianum specie or hybrids...
> 
> I think Mr Fisher should tell people what were the DNA results after the "mistakes in the lab" at this particular peruvian exporter of flask and Hybrids of Phrag kovachii.
> 
> The WOC is very close and orchid buyers should know all data before buying their dear future plants.



Please explain ..I bought these from Chuck Acker ,and as people have stated I think the matter was resolved and do not belive Mr. Acker would sell plants that are not PK hybrids !


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## Kyle (Dec 10, 2007)

Please see my post above yours.


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## NYEric (Dec 10, 2007)

My solution is send them to me and if they bloom out as Pk hybrids I'll let you visit them every other weekend! :evil:


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## Gilda (Dec 10, 2007)

Kyle said:


> Please see my post above yours.



Thanks !


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## Gilda (Dec 10, 2007)

NYEric said:


> My solution is send them to me and if they bloom out as Pk hybrids I'll let you visit them every other weekend! :evil:



Eric, your soooo sweetoke:


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## isaias m rolando (Dec 12, 2007)

All we know in Peru is that Peruflora was never able to show CITES authorities a single plant of PK with seed pods or even flowers at their inspections.
We also know that local illegal collectors were selling Phrag boissierianum seed pods as PK sed pods. Nobody at that time knew how the seed pods of PK look like and this collector told the story about growers in Lima (you all know who they are) bought these seed pods and offer "legally" their flask to export.
If you consider this "some ****" Mr Kyle...please grow up and do not show your miseries in this excellent forum.
Have a nice week, enjoy your orchids, even you " Mr Kiye"....you have the right to enjoy your orchids, no matter how you obtained them...


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## Hien (Dec 12, 2007)

NYEric said:


> My solution is send them to me and if they bloom out as Pk hybrids I'll let you visit them every other weekend! :evil:



:rollhappy::rollhappy::rollhappy:


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## Hien (Dec 12, 2007)

isaias m rolando said:


> All we know in Peru is that Peruflora was never able to show CITES authorities a single plant of PK with seed pods or even flowers at their inspections.
> We also know that local illegal collectors were selling Phrag boissierianum seed pods as PK sed pods. Nobody at that time knew how the seed pods of PK look like and this collector told the story about growers in Lima (you all know who they are) bought these seed pods and offer "legally" their flask to export.
> If you consider this "some ****" Mr Kyle...please grow up and do not show your miseries in this excellent forum.
> Have a nice week, enjoy your orchids, even you " Mr Kiye"....you have the right to enjoy your orchids, no matter how you obtained them...



Isaias. In all fairness, Kyle resides in Canada, and there is only one source for PK up there (Peru-Flora does not export pk to Canada).
So if Kyle has any Pk species or hybrid he would have obtained them from the GREEN CANYON ORCHIDS (which is from Alfredo Manrique)


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## NYEric (Dec 12, 2007)

You're dreaming!


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## paphlady (Dec 12, 2007)

isaias m rolando said:


> All we know in Peru is that Peruflora was never able to show CITES authorities a single plant of PK with seed pods or even flowers at their inspections.
> We also know that local illegal collectors were selling Phrag boissierianum seed pods as PK sed pods. Nobody at that time knew how the seed pods of PK look like and this collector told the story about *growers in Lima (you all know who they are) *bought these seed pods and offer "legally" their flask to export.
> If you consider this "some ****" Mr Kyle...please grow up and do not show your miseries in this excellent forum.
> Have a nice week, enjoy your orchids, even you " Mr Kiye"....you have the right to enjoy your orchids, no matter how you obtained them...



No, I don't. Could you please clarify? Thanks.


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## Candace (Dec 12, 2007)

Paphlady, there are some old threads that you should peruse, if you're interested in the kovachii saga. If you do a search under kovachii you'll have some fine reading:>


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## SlipperFan (Dec 12, 2007)

Hien said:


> Isaias. In all fairness, Kyle resides in Canada, and there is only one source for PK up there (Peru-Flora does not export pk to Canada).
> So if Kyle has any Pk species or hybrid he would have obtained them from the GREEN CANYON ORCHIDS (which is from Alfredo Manrique)


Sorry, Hien. Kyle gets around besides in Canada. Green Canyon Orchids only sells kovachii, the species. He does not sell kovachii hybrids. I believe Zyphrus Orchids has the rights to the Manrique hybrids in Canada. And I don't think Manrique has these particular hybrids, but you could check with either Zyphrus or Glen Decker about this.


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## isaias m rolando (Dec 13, 2007)

You see Mr Kyle:
_*"...no tires piedras al cielo cuando tienes techo de vidrio..."*_Enjoy your orchids


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## NYEric (Dec 13, 2007)

Peruflora has a lot of Pk hybrids listed. It will be interesting to see if any come to the WOC! [Not to mention what blooms!!!]


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## Hien (Dec 13, 2007)

You are right Dot. I just check Zephyrus, and they have kovachii hybrids.

Just to show that if you do not peruse internet orchid sites for a while, you are left behind in information & goodies.

I always thought Green Canyon has the exclusive (pk species & hybrids) right up in CANADA. I did not realize that he only concentrates on pk species.
However, those list on zyphyrus are exactly crosses from Glen & Manrique.
So there is no Peru-flora stuff up in Canada yet (that still seems to be correct)


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## NYEric (Dec 13, 2007)

Maybe HP Norton got his stuff from Peruflora but the only thing I know he's released is Pk x besseae.


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## SlipperFan (Dec 13, 2007)

Hien said:


> You are right Dot. I just check Zephyrus, and they have kovachii hybrids.
> 
> Just to show that if you do not peruse internet orchid sites for a while, you are left behind in information & goodies.
> 
> ...


PeruFlora has been to many shows outside Peru, and Kyle may have gone to one (or more) of them. I think he has also travelled to Peru -- didn't he say so in one of his posts?


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## Kyle (Dec 13, 2007)

Not that it matters, But I have kovachii seedlings from Peter Crozen. I have flasks of hybrid from Peru FLora that I got from Peruflora while in Germany and legally imported the flasks to Canada. The plants are still in flask (replated). Growing Phrags in flask past the 1st replate does not seem to be Perufloras forte.

I also thought that Peter Crozen had a monopoly on anything Alfredo Manrique produced in Canada. I was surprised to see Zypherus selling those hybrids. Not sure if some sort of deal was worked out. There are other (legal) ways to get those plants into Canada. I don't care, just happy to see the plants avaialble in Canada. We are a small market and sometimes get left behind. I also believe they are sold out.

I have been to Peru. I have been to some of Perufloras greenhouses and their lab. Not that it matters or anyone cares, but I have met and had lunch with Alfredo in Ecuador. I have seen kovachii in the wild. 

In personal, face to face communication, with Jerry Fischer I was told that the plants that were bought as pure kovachii but turned out not to be PK, do have kovachii as one parent (they are hybrids with kovachii) the other parent could not be determinned with out further (expensive) tests. 

Althou anything is possible, I have not heard of any pure kovachii coming out of Peruflora ending up being pure boissarianum (only the hybrids that Ackers and OL have). Correct me if I'm wrong. That is a rumour (based on the above). 

That is pretty much the extent of my knowledge on the subject. Isias is (obviously) much closer to the source, being close friend with Alfredo Manrique.


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## isaias m rolando (Dec 14, 2007)

Well Done Mr Kyle. Good Resume Of Data From Your Side.
This Is The Proper Way To Clear Things Up.
Only Time Will Tell What Is Going To Bloom. 
My Personal Approach Is That We All Should Work Together, Including Peruflora To Avoid More Habitat Destruction And Illegal Selective Depredation Of The Habitat.
It Took 25 Years To See Phrag Besseae Back Into The Original Habitat Where It Was Discovered, With Some Help Of Local Collectors Who Rescued 5 Plants And Kept Them In A Very Protected Natural Site.
Now It Has Taken Only 5 Years For Phrag Kovachii To Be Available Worldwide, Legally. It Is Good To Know That All Efforts Are Directed To Stop Illegal Collecting At The Habitat.
For All We Lucky Orchidist That Have Visited The Habitat Know That We Can Work For Habitat Protection And Legal Propagation Of The Specie. The Specie Is Saved From Extinction, But It Is My Humble Opinion That It Is Already Saved At The Opriginal Habitat.
I Strongly Encourage All Efforts Of People Around The World To Show Everybody That We Can Mak It...if We Work Together, Not Protecting Any Particular Interest But The Species And Their Habitats.
I Have To Thank All Good People Working Silent, Just Working...but Doing Something Good For Future Generations.
Have A Nice Weekend And Enjoy Your Orchids...i Did In The Past, I Do And I Will Do Foerever.
*veritas Illuminatio Mea*


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