# Phrag. xroethianum x besseae, flavum



## SlipperFan (Sep 7, 2011)

Info on tag: Phrag. xroethianum ‘FV’ CBR/AOS x besseae v. flavum
xroethianum = hirtzii x Phrag. longifolium
Should it look like this???


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## goldenrose (Sep 7, 2011)

I certainly wouldn't think so!
Hmmm .... so what is this cutie?


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## Shiva (Sep 7, 2011)

Beautiful!


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## Kyle (Sep 7, 2011)

I would expect something along the lines of Eric Young.


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## NYEric (Sep 8, 2011)

This is Robert Palm x something.


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## goldenrose (Sep 8, 2011)

Robt. Palm x bess = Robin Redbreast, don't think it's that.
Where did you get it? FV? Unusual cross, I would think, your source of the plant could probably ID it.
Here's one scroll down to the bottom of the page, it's the last pic. http://www.slipperorchid.com/gallery_phrags.asp


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## John Boy (Sep 8, 2011)

well, any hirtzii background certainly seems to have melted into the landscape. For a besseae v. flavum Hybrid it also has a lot of red in the flower. How about a forgetting longifolium as well as hirtzii in it's background? 
A very nice shot by the way!


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## Susie11 (Sep 8, 2011)

Lovely.


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## wojtek (Sep 8, 2011)

Fantastic bloom !!!


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## Marco (Sep 8, 2011)

Whatever the cross I like it.

Thanks for the photo.


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## JeanLux (Sep 8, 2011)

This is really one lovely flower, but hard to see any longifolium influence!!! Jean


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## Chuck (Sep 8, 2011)

JeanLux said:


> This is really one lovely flower, but hard to see any longifolium influence!!! Jean



I agree with everything Jean said here. 

The marking in the pouch might suggest sargentianum in the background and the colour looks like it might have been derived from schlimii or fischer back there some where as well.


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## Marc (Sep 8, 2011)

I like the flower and I like the picture.


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## Heather (Sep 8, 2011)

Looks more like Hanne Popow to me.


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## SlipperFan (Sep 8, 2011)

I'm thinking it looks very much like my Frosted Velvet (Hanne Popow x St. Peter):






I got the plant from Fox Valley. I think I'll contact Tom -- unless he's watching this thread and wants to weigh in...


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## W. Beetus (Sep 8, 2011)

I really like that, regardless of parentage!


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## tomkalina (Sep 9, 2011)

Hi Dot,

There's a good chance it is Phrag. Tammi Jo Hilsenbeck (Rosalie Dixler x schlimii). We registered the cross in 2004 and had about 25 seedlings which were sold at various shows, including the MOS show in Livonia....so it's possible. It's definately not (x roethianum x besseae v flavum), which looks more like Mountain Maid (hirtzii x besseae) which we sold at about the same time. Here's a poor (by your standards) photo of one of our Tammi Jo's for comparison.


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## NYEric (Sep 9, 2011)

Could be..


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## SlipperFan (Sep 9, 2011)

Thanks, Tom. That looks like mine in just about every aspect, down to the wavy petals and two-tone coloring.


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## Phrag-Plus (Sep 9, 2011)

SlipperFan said:


> Thanks, Tom. That looks like mine in just about every aspect, down to the wavy petals and two-tone coloring.



I'm agreeing with you and Tom, look much more like a possible Tammi Jo Hilsenbeck.
And I do agreeing with you too, about the resemblance with your Frosted Velvet (?). Because this Frosted Velvet, is having lindleyanum or sargentianum in it. And it's not suppose to… 

Frosted Velvet like Longueville or Cape Sunset don’t have the heavy marking from the sargentianum in the inner pouch.


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## NYEric (Sep 10, 2011)

Phrag-Plus said:


> I'm agreeing with you and Tom, look much more like a possible Tammi Jo Hilsenbeck.
> And I do agreeing with you too, about the resemblance with your Frosted Velvet (?). Because this Frosted Velvet, is having lindleyanum or sargentianum in it. And it's not suppose to…
> 
> Frosted Velvet like Longueville or Cape Sunset don’t have the heavy marking from the sargentianum in the inner pouch.



All this delicious besseae hybrid talk is making me dizzy! :crazy:


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## SlipperFan (Sep 10, 2011)

Phrag-Plus said:


> I'm agreeing with you and Tom, look much more like a possible Tammi Jo Hilsenbeck.
> And I do agreeing with you too, about the resemblance with your Frosted Velvet (?). Because this Frosted Velvet, is having lindleyanum or sargentianum in it. And it's not suppose to…
> 
> Frosted Velvet like Longueville or Cape Sunset don’t have the heavy marking from the sargentianum in the inner pouch.


So you mean my Frosted Velvet isn't labeled right either???


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## Phrag-Plus (Sep 11, 2011)

SlipperFan said:


> So you mean my Frosted Velvet isn't labeled right either???



Unfortunately yes! 
Frosted Velvet ( 32,5 bess + 32,5 long + 25 schlim) should look between an Eric young ( 50% bess + 50% long ) and Grouville ( 50 bess + 25 long + 25 schlim ). This inner pouch is showing lindleyanum/ sargentianum hybrid influence like Beauport or a Andean Fire X …


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## SlipperFan (Sep 11, 2011)

Hmmmm -- so, do you think these are both Phrag. Tammi Jo Hilsenbeck?

Or what else could they be? 

Other than Tom's post here, I could not find any other photo of Phrag. Tammi Jo Hilsenbeck on the internet.


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## Phrag-Plus (Sep 12, 2011)

SlipperFan said:


> Hmmmm -- so, do you think these are both Phrag. Tammi Jo Hilsenbeck?
> 
> Or what else could they be?
> 
> Other than Tom's post here, I could not find any other photo of Phrag. Tammi Jo Hilsenbeck on the internet.



When I’m looking at the photo I would like to say Andean Fire X, because the colour and shape. But if I’m looking and compare to the variation I’ve seen in my own breeding offspring originated from a single seedpod ( Phrag. Michel Tremblay, Phrag. Serge Harvey, Phrag. Claude Marcoux, etc… ) variations in colour, size and shape can be very surprising and unexpected. 

And as you said, we didn’t had the opportunity to see many photos from those crosses and we don’t have any repairs to compare them yet. Make those identification much more difficult and it is almost impossible to say yes I’m sure of what it is, even guessing because we can be very far from the truth…! We will have to wait!


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## Shiva (Sep 12, 2011)

There is a Phrag. Frosted Velvet 'Milford' HCC/OCNZ 77.05 [C. Hubbert] In OrchidWiz that looks every bit like yours but a little darker.

You can see it at http://www.tuckersorchidnursery.co.nz/news.cfm?month=December&CFID=31919939&CFTOKEN=86766

Then: http://aoc.inetgardens.com/redirect.asp?plants/gallerymainphrag.htm

Hope this help.


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## NYEric (Sep 12, 2011)

Thanks for the links from around the world Shiva.


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## Phrag-Plus (Sep 12, 2011)

Shiva said:


> There is a Phrag. Frosted Velvet 'Milford' HCC/OCNZ 77.05 [C. Hubbert] In OrchidWiz that looks every bit like yours but a little darker.
> 
> You can see it at http://www.tuckersorchidnursery.co.nz/news.cfm?month=December&CFID=31919939&CFTOKEN=86766
> 
> ...



You are right both link are showing flower from the same source for sure...


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## SlipperFan (Sep 12, 2011)

So confusing.....


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## goldenrose (Sep 12, 2011)

It sure is, the 2 links show toothiness on the petals, can that be a hint to the possible ID?


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## SlipperFan (Sep 12, 2011)

goldenrose said:


> It sure is, the 2 links show toothiness on the petals, can that be a hint to the possible ID?


I noticed that, also. That characteristic is absent on both of mine.


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## ORG (Sep 15, 2011)

Here you can find a picture of the true cross between
*Phrag. x roethianum *and *Phrag. besseae forma flava*

http://www.phragweb.info/phragmipedium/hybrids/unregistered/photos/display_unreghybrid_thumbnails_phrag.asp?phrag_id=312&phrag_name=n.r.&seed_parent=332&pollen_parent=29&photo_type=P&photo=True

Really quiet different

Best greetings

Olaf


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## tomkalina (Sep 15, 2011)

Hi Olaf,

We offered these seedlings a few years back, but they sold out pretty quickly. Maybe it's time for a remake, now that x roethianum is blooming again. 

Thanks,


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## ORG (Sep 15, 2011)

Dear Tom,
nice to read that you are well. Could you show us a picture of your clones. I had seen only the clone in the net.
And is it possible to show also a picture of your Phrag. x roethianum? Perhaps you can send both also to my private mailadress.

For this time best greetings and many thanks

Olaf


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## tomkalina (Sep 15, 2011)

Hi Olaf,

I'll look in the slide file tonight and get back to you re add'l Phrag. (x roethianum x besseae fma flavum) photos. Attached is one of the x roethianum clones currently in bloom. Unfortunately, I dropped my good camera in the water last week, so the photo is not the best quality using my old Nikon 1.2 mp antique.

Best Regards,


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## tomkalina (Sep 15, 2011)

Here's a little larger photo.


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## SlipperFan (Sep 15, 2011)

ORG said:


> Here you can find a picture of the true cross between
> *Phrag. x roethianum *and *Phrag. besseae forma flava*
> 
> http://www.phragweb.info/phragmipedium/hybrids/unregistered/photos/display_unreghybrid_thumbnails_phrag.asp?phrag_id=312&phrag_name=n.r.&seed_parent=332&pollen_parent=29&photo_type=P&photo=True
> ...


Thanks, Olaf. It does look a lot like my Mountain Maid (hirtzii x besseae flavum).


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## Shiva (Sep 15, 2011)

SlipperFan said:


> It does look a lot like my Mountain Maid (hirtzii x besseae flavum).



Darn! I was going to say that. oke:


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## NYEric (Sep 15, 2011)

As it should! oke:


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## ORG (Sep 15, 2011)

Mountain Maid shoul be very similar because it is the hybrid between besseae and hirtzii.
x roethianum is the natural hybrid between hirtii and laongifolium. When you corss this with besseae there must be a similarity with Mountain Maid.

Best greetings

Olaf


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