# Phragmipedium medium



## swamprad (Nov 16, 2008)

Ah, the eternal question, what should I pot my phrags in?

I've got good quality tap water in Memphis, and I don't over fertilize.

Last Spring, I potted my phrags (I only had 5 or 6 at that time) in semi hydro. My Jason Fischer grew like a giant weed all summer and recently threw up two fine spikes. So that was my s/h success story.

The rest of my phrags just sulked in s/h. They were all outside from April until October, watered frequently, and they did nothing but lose bottom leaves, turn their leaf tips brown, and just generally sulk (although one of them just pushed up a spike, despite all the brown leaf tips!).

I acquired a dozen or so bs phrags from Hawaii that were potted in old, stagnant chc this summer, all looked happy and in bud, but way overdue for repotting.

So here's my plan. Keep Jason Fischer in semi hydro, don't tamper with success, but forget about s/h for the rest of them. Pot up half of the rest of my phrags in a bark mix, and half in straight sphagnum, and see which works best for me.


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## Ron-NY (Nov 16, 2008)

Mark, I have been very happy with S/H and Phrags and gradually have been moving all of mine over to it.


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## SlipperFan (Nov 16, 2008)

On the other hand, Fred Clarke (Sunset Valley Orchids) told me something this weekend that explained why my Phrags eventually didn't like S/H and why they are doing so well now: In nature, they don't sit in a pond. They have fresh water running through their roots. So unless one can flush the S/H pots whenever you water (I couldn't in the house), one is better off with a fast-draining but moisture-retentive media that one can water fairly often. My Phrags are in a mixture of about 50/50 diatomite/CHC, and I water them 2X a week.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Nov 16, 2008)

I have great success with a simple bark mix- fine bark, sponge rock, chopped sphagnum...can be almost equal thirds, with slightly more bark and slightly less NZ sphagnum...a little charcoal also. They can last in this mix up to 4 years...I repot and there's only brown muck left, but tons of healthy roots. I gave up on SH....all my phrags died if they remained in it (and phrags can be hard to kill...) except 2 that seem to love it. I have had poor luck with phrags in CHC, and the one time I tried cocopeat on a phrag it was a disaster...Take care, Eric


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## NYEric (Nov 17, 2008)

I don't like straight s/h media, too unnatural and leaves no option, unfortunately because I grow in water I soon have to repot some of the few phrags I have!


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## Paul (Nov 17, 2008)

Hello,
My Phrag usually love rockwool or living sphagnum moss. Except P. kovachii which are in a different medium


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## phrag guy (Nov 17, 2008)

I grow 95% of my phrags in moss. the rest in a bark perlite charcoal mix.


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## Candace (Nov 17, 2008)

Post a poll. Everyone loves a good poll:>


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## NYEric (Nov 17, 2008)

Too many choices; unless you want to know s/h or non-s/h.


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## Hera (Nov 17, 2008)

I'm trying a mixture of coir, charcol and perlite with a small amount of bark thrown in. SO far they love it. Roots growing like crazy and new shoots. S/H didn't work for me for the phrags, but the phals and catts love it.


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## Rick (Nov 17, 2008)

I think its real hard to generalize for all phrags. My wet feet species do fine in just about anything I put them in as long as their feet are wet. Similarly I've had good success with just about anything for long petaled phrags as long as I didn't keep them sopping wet.

I have noticed that many of my phrags were much more sensitive to warmer temps than many of my paphs, and a combination of warm temps and bright light was real bad for several species regardless of mix choice.

Memphis is consistently just a bit warmer than Nashville Swamprad. Maybe your problems are more traceable to overheating rather than SH. What species/hybrids are you growing?


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## NYEric (Nov 18, 2008)

Thanx for putting your location in your sig! oke:


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## Yoyo_Jo (Nov 18, 2008)

I've got phrags in bark, one phrag in dyna-rock, one in CHC (I think) with pebbles on top, and I got one last night (longifolium) in what looks like straight perlite. Will be interesting to see how they all do...


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## parvi_17 (Nov 19, 2008)

For most of the time I've been growing Phrags, I have used rockwool and have used s/h for all except the caudatum complex species/hybrids (which grow in a Paph bark mix). I have had great results with those methods. Recently, however, I have switched over to LECA for many of my s/h grown Phrags. So far the results have been good.


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## Ray (Nov 21, 2008)

I have generally found that most plants - s/h or not - do better if they get watered more frequently, and phrags are no exception. In addition to making sure the overall chemistry of the medium is as close to your "target" as possible, I have heard notions that watering "drags" fresh air through the medium as well, which is a *big* plus for any potted orchid.

*<soapbox>*
I hope that folks don't take this as being insulting or an attack; it's really just a couple of humorous observations:

A comment was made that there was a dislike of LECA as a medium because it isn't "natural" or at least wasn't natural looking. So when was the last time any of us saw any orchids _naturally_ growing in CHC, perlite, or even bark chips?

I also wonder about the comment that one was unable to flush properly in the home with S/H, but is successful with a fast-draining (more-or-less standard) medium. Doesn't that need to be flushed, too?

Lastly, I find it interesting that if one does not have the right condition, capabilities, and/or temperament to grow orchids mounted (i.e., good humidity and frequent watering) - probably the most "natural" way there is - we simply acknowledge that and move on. If, on the other hand, we don't have the right conditions, capabilities, and/or temperament to grow orchids in other specific ways - semi-hydroponics or the use of straight sphagnum or Aussie Gold are often part of the equation - problems are more likely to be attributed to the medium or culture technique! (I've been guilty of that myself.)

My point being that there are many ways to grow orchids, but folks apparently have an inherent desire to pin success or failure on a medium or particular growing technique. The simple fact is that they are but one factor out of many that determine success, and the sooner folks realize that and analyze all aspects of their culture - including their own fastidiousness (do they like to "mess with" the plants, or do they prefer to provide minimal attention), the sooner they will be successful. Questions like "what's the best medium for..." or "what's the easiest plant to grow..." are akin to "How high is up?".
*</soapbox>*


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## swamprad (Nov 21, 2008)

Rick said:


> I think its real hard to generalize for all phrags. My wet feet species do fine in just about anything I put them in as long as their feet are wet. Similarly I've had good success with just about anything for long petaled phrags as long as I didn't keep them sopping wet.
> 
> I have noticed that many of my phrags were much more sensitive to warmer temps than many of my paphs, and a combination of warm temps and bright light was real bad for several species regardless of mix choice.
> 
> Memphis is consistently just a bit warmer than Nashville Swamprad. Maybe your problems are more traceable to overheating rather than SH. What species/hybrids are you growing?



Here's my list of phrags. I've kept them all equally wet. I guess I should keep the Devil Fire, Giganteum, and Wossner Supergrande a bit on the drier side.

Phragmipedium Acker's Charm 4N (Rosy Charm 'Pink Flare' 4N x Grande 'Vista' 4N)

Phragmipedium After-Glo (Eric Young 4N x Sorcerer's Apprentice 4N)

Phragmipedium Autumn Fire (Eric Young x Barbara LeAnn)

Phragmipedium Bel Croute (Sorcerer's Apprentice x caudatum sanderae)

Phragmipedium Cape Sunset (Eric Young 'Mount Millais' AM/RHS x fischeri)

Phragmipedium Chuck Acker (Eric Young x wallisii)

Phragmipedium Devil Fire (Grande 'Vista' 4N x warscewiczianum)

Phragmipedium Franz Glanz (richteri x besseae)

Phragmipedium Giganteum (Grande x caudatum)

Phragmipedium Iron Works (Sorcerer's Apprentice x longifolium 4N)

Phragmipedium Jason Fischer (Memoria Dick Clements x besseae)
 
Phragmipedium Kal Quintal (Sorcerer's Apprentice x richteri (amazonica) 'Birchwood")

Phragmipedium Living Fire (Sorcerer's Apprentice x besseae)

Phragmipedium Les Dirouilles (Sorcerer's Apprentice x Grande)

Phragmipedium Les Dirouilles (Sorcerer's Apprentice x Grande)

Phragmipedium NOID

Phragmipedium Prince Albert (Memoria Dick Clements 4N x pearcei 'Birchwood' AM/AOS)

Phragmipedium Red Sky (Demetria 'Mem. Don Walker' x Twilight 'Rising Rocket' 4N)

Phragmipedium Richard Lemay (pearcei 'Birchwood' x Sorcerer's Apprentice)

Phragmipedium Scheherezade (richteri x wallisii)

Phragmipedium Sergeant Eric (Eric Young 4N x sargentianum 'Birchwood’ AM/AOS)

Phragmipedium Sergeant Eric (Eric Young 4N x sargentianum 'Birchwood’ AM/AOS)

Phragmipedium Sorcerer's Fire (Andean Fire 'Michelle Lee' AM/AOS x Sorcerer's Apprentice 4N)

Phragmipedium Uranus (lindleyanum x Grande 4N 'Gigantea')

Phragmipedium Walter Schomburg 'The Best' x schlimii

Phragmipedium Wossner Supergrande (longifolium x warscewiczianum)

Phragmipedium Young Lindley (Eric Young x lindleyanum)


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## SlipperFan (Nov 21, 2008)

Ray said:


> *<soapbox>*
> I hope that folks don't take this as being insulting or an attack; it's really just a couple of humorous observations:
> 
> I also wonder about the comment that one was unable to flush properly in the home with S/H, but is successful with a fast-draining (more-or-less standard) medium. Doesn't that need to be flushed, too?
> ...



That was me, Ray. I think my lack of success with Phrags in PrimeAgra was because I couldn't fill the containers with water -- I only put enough water, 2X per week, in the pots so that it started to come out the holes. Certainly not enough to "flush" them, and probably the water standing in the well got too high in minerals. Whereas with the media and pots I now use, the water goes through the pots and doesn't sit in them -- I don't grow my Phrags sitting in water, but the water passes through the medium and the pots twice a week. One time with fertilizer, and the other with just water -- I guess that's flushing them, at least somewhat.

If I ever get a greenhouse, my watering technique will certainly change, and maybe slippers in S/H will be viable for me then.

The interesting thing to me is that I have some orchids in S/H PrimeAgra or diatomite that are doing well, that are not slippers.

I agree with your observation that everyone needs to find out what works best for them and their conditions. Do not be afraid to experiment!


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## TADD (Nov 21, 2008)

CHC Med. Hydro rock of some kind, and spongerock maybe some charcoal for color....


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## Ray (Nov 22, 2008)

Dot, I'm still a bit confused.

If you were unable to fill the pots (and I'm quite sure that was the reason for your lack of success with s/h), how can you water with pots that the water drains right through?


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## Phrag-Plus (Nov 22, 2008)

Eric Muehlbauer said:


> I have great success with a simple bark mix- fine bark, sponge rock, chopped sphagnum...can be almost equal thirds, with slightly more bark and slightly less NZ sphagnum...a little charcoal also. They can last in this mix up to 4 years...I repot and there's only brown muck left, but tons of healthy roots. I gave up on SH....all my phrags died if they remained in it (and phrags can be hard to kill...) except 2 that seem to love it. I have had poor luck with phrags in CHC, and the one time I tried cocopeat on a phrag it was a disaster...Take care, Eric



I'm agree with Eric, 
I'm always freak out when I hear or read ‘chc’, it was the worst grower’s experience I ever made in my life for my Phrags. It did seem good for a short period of time but when it starts to kill the plants it was a real mess... I did lost hundreds of plants even they were re-potted in new media; the one who did survive did take 1 to 3 years to recover entirely of that experience... 

I do grow all my Phrags in 75% moss and 25% perlite, charcoal and small bark with very good results, the caudatum alliances and hybrids get more perlite and smaller pots to dry out faster. 
I did try s/h but didn't see any major differences and after a year and did prefer to return in my usual mix. It is easier to manage the greenhouse when everybody got the same conditions.


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## SlipperFan (Nov 22, 2008)

Ray said:


> Dot, I'm still a bit confused.
> 
> If you were unable to fill the pots (and I'm quite sure that was the reason for your lack of success with s/h), how can you water with pots that the water drains right through?


It takes a lot more water to fill s/h pots and let them drain out than it does to water into a mix that absorbs most of it. Remember, I'm not using a hose, but a watering can with a snout. I can direct the water over all the surface of the media and stop the watering when the water begins running out all the holes.


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## Ray (Nov 23, 2008)

Gotcha. Makes sense now.

Thanks for the reply.


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## SlipperFan (Nov 23, 2008)

Ray said:


> Gotcha. Makes sense now.
> 
> Thanks for the reply.



You're welcome, Ray. BTW, I still have my awarded Phrag Grouville in S/H (remember?), but I found that diatomite works better for me than does PrimeAgra -- probably because of the way I water. 

Hope I didn't negate everything I said by that last statement. I have about 10 Phrags in S/H and the rest of my collection (115 + seedlings) in diatomite/CHC in regular pots.


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## Ray (Nov 24, 2008)

Oh, I remember. As a matter of fact, it is the first flower photo I use in my s/h presentation, as it was the first awarded plant grown that way, as far as I can tell!


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## SlipperFan (Nov 24, 2008)

It bloomed really well the next time and got another AOS, and then the plant almost died. It's coming back, I'm pleased to say.


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