# The story Paph. callosum 'jac'



## cliokchi (Dec 21, 2010)

Hi guys,

here's the picture that Norris H Powell from the Orchid House took when it flowered for the first time after he brought it back from The Netherlands
the name 'Jack' is the first name of the Dutch Orchid grower mr. Jac Falstar
from Naaldwijk near Rotterdam.
Norris was in the Netherlands to join the European orchid congress in Amsterdam at that time.
Norris asked me to join him help him find a few orchid nurseries , I'm dutch but spoke fluently english so we left for Naaldwijk 
i was the official dedicated translator/tourguide on this trip, 

upon arriving in the Jac Falstar nursery Norris could not believe his eyes when he saw the tenthousands and ten thousands of paph species , 
callosum 3 different types, Paph. gratixianum laos uncountable in quantities.
Paph. concolor, sukhahulii, niveum and Paph . faireanum ,Norris first started to select the faireanums he choose about 50 diff faireanum 
all plants were jungle collect [Holland did not join CITES till 1989]

then we walked over to the callosums and there was standing out like a sore thumb *Paph. callosum black*
Norris asked how much for this plant and if Jac Falstar was willing to part with it ,
*he answered you like it you keep it for free , Falstar said i don't like it's color to Dark ! , it's then that Norris gave the plant it's varietal name 
Paph. callosum 'jac'* 
nobody realized at that moment it would be one of the main building blocks of a whole new type of Paph. hybrids the Vinicolors, 
in the 90's becoming the new craze and rang the bell for the demise of Complex Paph. hybrids

For *Dot* as you can see the original picture already shows it's habit of making crooked *S* shaped flower spikes.
another long history lesson, 
I hope I don't bore the forum which such detailed info , 
i hope it's useful for somebody
cliokchi


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## paworsport (Dec 21, 2010)

Very interesting story. Thanks for your post. Lucky you are to live in Thailand !


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## Shiva (Dec 21, 2010)

Thanks for the tale. I wish I could go there to see everything with my own eye.


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## Ernie (Dec 21, 2010)

Thanks! I, personally, love these history lessons.


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## paphreek (Dec 21, 2010)

Thanks for the story!  Isn't callosum 'Jac' now considered to be Paph viniferum? I notice on the photo of 'Jac' that the petals are covered with warts,


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## fibre (Dec 21, 2010)

Thanks for this thread, cliokchi! I like all these history or breeding or selecting lessens! It is always interesting to learn about the milestones of paph-history!


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## cliokchi (Dec 21, 2010)

HI ross,

they were found among Paph. callosum 'laos'
i've never heard of any more plants surfacing of it all though millions
were imported into the Netherlands, i live now for 16 yrs in thailand 
and i'm in daily contact with the suppliers of callosum 'laos'
i've never heard of another one being offered for sale !
i think all the other vini callosum came from the selfing, 
the sib cross with callosum 'laos' and the sib of 'jac' x 'sparkling burgundy' from rex van delden over at Stewart's
during my stay in the Netherlands i came across 5 Callosum 'thailandense' vini
there's a few of these at the project Doi tung collection 
in those days in the Netherlands it was quiet common to come a cross
Paph. callosum 'laos' alba or Paph. callosum 'sublaeve' alba or callosum 'thailandense' alba 
the growers in Holland would keep them a side for me because 
they couldn't mix them with their regular callosum potplants
i'm not such a big fan of the splitter mentality of some of our taxonomists
i think in my opininion you need to have at least a differentiated paph population 
and not being represented by a single occurence !
cliokchi





paphreek said:


> Thanks for the story!  Isn't callosum 'Jac' now considered to be Paph viniferum? I notice on the photo of 'Jac' that the petals are covered with warts,


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## emydura (Dec 21, 2010)

Very interesting story Cliokchi. Sounds like it is just an individual mutation rather than from a population. I have a flask of the selfing of vinferum 'Jac' (from Sam Tsui) that I am currently raising slowly. What would you expect them to tun out like?

David


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## gonewild (Dec 21, 2010)

great history story!
Do you remember what year this was in?


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## cliokchi (Dec 21, 2010)

As I previously wrote Norris was in Europe to attend the european orchid congress in spring 1976 !!! now 34 yrs ago
cliokchi 


gonewild said:


> great history story!
> Do you remember what year this was in?


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## cliokchi (Dec 21, 2010)

Hi David,
they all come out quiet close to the original, 
i find it highly questionable that Sam Tsui had an original division of viniferum 'jac' still alive
it's more likely that he has a selfing of Callosum 'jac' which is basically the same, 

i just saw recently that joe kunisch from Bloomfield orchids
has flasks for sale of callosum 'jac' x self for $ 125,--
cliokchi 



emydura said:


> Very interesting story Cliokchi. Sounds like it is just an individual mutation rather than from a population. I have a flask of the selfing of vinferum 'Jac' (from Sam Tsui) that I am currently raising slowly. What would you expect them to tun out like?
> 
> David


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## GuRu (Dec 21, 2010)

cliokchi said:


> ....Norris H Powell from the Orchid House took when it flowered for the first time after he brought it back from The Netherlands
> the name 'Jack' is the first name of the Dutch Orchid grower mr. Jac Falstar
> from Naaldwijk near Rotterdam.


Hi Cliokchi,
the story of P. callosum 'Jac' was published in 'DIE ORCHIDEE' 01/2001 by Harold Koopowitz, Norito Hasgawa and Olaf Gruß.
Most of the story there is the same as yours. But there are also differences.
They claimed 'JAC' is the abbreviation of *J*ust *A*nother *C*allosum. 
The image you show is also there but it's titled 'Paphiopedilum viniferum 'Ebon'.
They said that the petals of 'Ebon' are in an angle of about 45° and that of 'JAC' hang more downwards!


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## cliokchi (Dec 21, 2010)

hi Guru,

I was there present when it happened !
i'm now 52 then i was 17/18] 
cliokchi oke:



GuRu said:


> Hi Cliokchi,
> the story of P. callosum 'Jac' was published in 'DIE ORCHIDEE' 01/2001 by Harold Koopowitz, Norito Hasgawa and Olaf Gruß.
> Most of the Story there is the same as yours. But there are also differences.
> They claimed 'JAC' is the abbreviation of *J*ust *A*nother *C*allosum.
> ...


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## gonewild (Dec 21, 2010)

cliokchi said:


> As I previously wrote Norris was in Europe to attend the european orchid congress in spring 1976 !!! now 34 yrs ago
> cliokchi



Did not see the year in what you wrote!


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## GuRu (Dec 21, 2010)

cliokchi said:


> hi Guru,
> 
> I was there present when it happened !
> i'm now 52 then i was 17/18]
> cliokchi oke:



Hi Cliokchi, 
I'm pretty sure you are remembering properly and obviously your information is based at first hand!
I just said what was written in that article nothing more and nothig less.
They also said that the origin of the plants was Burma and they were brought to Europe by Kees SAHIN a well known Dutch vendor.
According to that article the clone 'Ebon' was bought by Emerson 'Doc' Charles.


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## cliokchi (Dec 21, 2010)

hi Guru,

Burma is completely wrong ,it was Laos Kees Sahin was right i forgot to mention this, he was a kind of Plant hunter, 
he was the one that supplied Paph. callosum' laos' and the huge quantities of Paph. gratixianum to Jac Falstar
The clone 'ebon' came from the first flasks of 'Jac' x self
thanx cliokchi



GuRu said:


> Hi Cliokchi,
> I'm pretty sure you are remembering properly and obviously your information are based at first hand!
> I just said what was written in that article nothing more and nothig less.
> They also said that the origin of the plants was Burma and they were brought to Europe by Kees SAHIN a well known Dutch vendor.
> According to that article the clone 'Ebon' was bought by Emerson 'Doc' Charles.


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## NYEric (Dec 21, 2010)

Nice story and history. Thanks for sharing.


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## SlipperFan (Dec 21, 2010)

Keep the history lessons coming -- always interesting!


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## GuRu (Dec 22, 2010)

gonewild said:


> ....Do you remember what year this was in?


According to the article it must have been around 1975/1976.
Cliokchi confirmed that date to be correct.


cliokchi said:


> ....I was there present when it happened !
> i'm now 52 then i was 17/18...


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## JeanLux (Dec 22, 2010)

I like that story a lot!!!! Jean

(And surely some interesting decision, away from Holland over to Thailand!!!!)


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## cliokchi (Dec 22, 2010)

hi David,

is it possible to take a few pictures of your selfing of vinferum 'Jac' (from Sam Tsui),
please take a shot of the plant base and from the top if it's not to much
asked of you
thanx cliokchi:wink:



emydura said:


> Very interesting story Cliokchi. Sounds like it is just an individual mutation rather than from a population. I have a flask of the selfing of vinferum 'Jac' (from Sam Tsui) that I am currently raising slowly. What would you expect them to tun out like?
> 
> David


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## emydura (Dec 22, 2010)

Here you go cliokchi. Can you see enough from this photo?

They are still pretty small plants. I have 4 or 5 of these small compots. They don't all belong to me. Sam donated them to our local orchid society and I was given the responsibility of looking after them. They initially struggled for a bit but are now starting to pick up.

David





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## SlipperKing (Dec 22, 2010)

Nice David. They're in much better shape then mine are.


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## cliokchi (Dec 22, 2010)

hi David,

thanx for your prompt picture, i would suggest that as soon as you some
roots growing get them out of the coconut chips
have you ever tried to grow in NZ or 5xxxxx chillean sphagnum ?
mottled paph's do generally well in it but of course this all depends on your water quality .
I attached your picture and marked the plant that i feel has the most 'Jac'
blood in it's veins, if it's not to much asked send me also the other pots on a picture i'll pm you my private mail adress, so we don't have to bore our dear other slippertalkers forum members with my ramblings.
thanx for your prompt reply
cliokchi


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## nikv (Dec 22, 2010)

cliokchi said:


> . . . so we don't have to bore our dear other slippertalkers forum members with my ramblings.


There is nothing boring about your posts. I find this thread to be totally facinating!


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## emydura (Dec 22, 2010)

cliokchi said:


> hi David,
> 
> thanx for your prompt picture, i would suggest that as soon as you some
> roots growing get them out of the coconut chips
> ...



Thanks Cliokchi. I'll try and post some more photos this evening. Running out of time though as I'm heading off for Christmas tomorrow.

All the seedlings are from JAC. Are you saying the one you marked is the most likely to resemble the parent?

Co-incidentally I just bought a big bale of NZ spaghnum moss to grow Miltoniopsis in, so I have a supply. I have not grown orchids in it generally so can you tell me what sort of mix I should use. With the Miltoniopsis I was told to grow them in 50% spaghnum moss and 50% large grade perlite. Would something similar for Paphs suit? Maybe smaller grade perlite for the seedlings. Do you grow your large mottled-leaf Paphs in it as well? Our water is pretty low in TDS.

David


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Dec 22, 2010)

Please keep this going! This is a fascinating thread...I've always wanted a "Jac"...and I've always wondered about the validity of "viniferum" if it was coming from such a small sample. Oh, and yes, get them out of the CHC....you can already see the yellowing of the lower leaves...first sign of problems when barbata types grow in them.


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## cliokchi (Dec 22, 2010)

hi David,

this an article about Sphagnum moss and Paph's
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17700

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17840
both threads are made by a young Indonesian student of horticulture
currently studying in Taiwan, I found it very well written and certainly 
useful for you.
yes i think the plant I marked by me will be closest to 'Jac'
have a nice day
cliokchi



emydura said:


> Thanks Cliokchi. I'll try and post some more photos this evening. Running out of time though as I'm heading off for Christmas tomorrow.
> 
> All the seedlings are from JAC. Are you saying the one you marked is the most likely to resemble the parent?
> 
> ...


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## emydura (Dec 23, 2010)

cliokchi said:


> hi David,
> 
> this an article about Sphagnum moss and Paph's
> http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17700
> ...



Thanks Cliokchi for the links. I'll look at them closely and repot the viniferums when I get back from my holidays.

I'm just not going to have enough time to photograph the other compots before I go. I will post them on my return.

Have a great Xmas and NY everyone.

David


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