# The Parvi's, culture idea's please



## SlipperKing (Jan 19, 2008)

I've been growing Paphs since 86 and given a learning curve I got the hang of it in a year's time. Never had much trouble with the Parvi's, except blooming them of course. Recently (in the last 4 yrs) I've gotten a new GH and everything is bustin out everywhere, except the Parvi's, I should add the Bachy's too. My #1 question is; What is everyone using as a growing medium? I've always used bark, carcoal and sponge rock. I'm not having any luck with roots on these plants. I've thought about trying CHC (need a source).

I saw on one of the forums, a guy growing armeniacum in a moss lined wire basket with muliple growths sticking out everywhere! Pretty cool.

Rick


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## Bob Wellenstein (Jan 19, 2008)

There are so many factors a question like this is tough to answer in a few sentences, but there is no reason you shouldn't be able to grow parvi roots in the mix you've been using provided the bark is good quality, and the size of the compnents is large enough to allow air flow through the pot and a bit of drying of the mix. If other slippers are taking off, and these are lagging, the one common factor between the parvis (except delenatii) and brachys is they do come from areas with lots of calcium and magnesium in the substrate, and generally a neutral to slightly alkaline pH. Do you know the pH of your irrigation water plus fertilizer? Do you know what your water contains as far as mineral content, and what is your fertilizer?


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## SlipperKing (Jan 19, 2008)

Thanks Bob,
I use rainwater only with Peter's Professional, 20-20-20 at 100ppm in the summer (growing season), pH is neut to slighty acid. In the past I would switch to a super bloom fertilizer for a couple of months stating in Sept then no fert. until warm weather came along. Remembering that I live in south Texas and winters only last 2 wks. This fall I didn't use the super bloom (lazy). I cut the Peter's in half to 50ppm. I have somewhere a round 25 delenatiis and they're part of the bustin loose, several budding. The malipoenses are also growing well. It's micranthums, armeniacums and Bachys that are giving me fits.
My medium is med bark, #3 carcoal and I think #4 sponge rock in a 3:1.5:3 ratio. I also use the aircone pots and get a lot of algeae growth on the inside walls. I use the smallest pot possible for the roots ( maybe too small?).
One other comment i would like to made is in regards to the 2 micranthums and 1 armeniacum I just bought. All very healthy but all in different media. One micranthum was in straight pro-mix (and wet!) The other two from one source; micranthum was in straight sphagnum with calcium chips added and armeni (in bud) was in mostly broken down bark. I've even gotten micranthum in a bark mix with a lot of gravel in it.
One thing I've done in awhile is throw egg shells in my water storage tank. Does calcium stimulate roots?


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jan 19, 2008)

While I am now in the process of moving many of my paphs out of CHC and back into bark, I am not doing this with the parvis. They all seem to greatly appreciate CHC, mixed heavily with inorganics...spongerock, lava rock, dynarock, whatever...as long as there's lots of aeration. Yes, delanatii is the exception...I grow that in my phrag mix of bark, spongerock, and some sphagnum (the only paph I'll put in sphagnum). But growth is one thing...blooms are another. I have never gotten malipoense to even spike, much less bloom. micranthum has spiked, but blasted. armeniacum bloomed once...after 12 years, then died the next season. Other armeniacums have never spiked. Interestingly enough, emersonii is easy to bloom....but getting it to survive past its bloom is another story. I follow the usual rules...cool and dry in winter (not delanatii though...), outdoors in summers. take care, Eric


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## SlipperKing (Jan 20, 2008)

Thanks for the insight Eric.
Can you go into more detail in regards to CHC? The Wellensteins were very positive in their evaluation. I bought a small brick of the stuff a year ago and finally used it with my bark mix to pot up all of my Phrags. They're kickin big time but I contribute that to the Peter's fertizier. Other words, no negative effect from the CHC that I can tell.
As for blooming the Parvi's, I 've bloomed all of them at one time or the other. But like you, some are very difficult to grow let alone bloom. P. malipoense and delenatii's bloom easy if I let the GH get down to the 50's in the winter. I would go colder if the thermostat would let it ( it bottoms out at 50). I've bloomed P micranthum half-a-dozen times and even got a HCC on one. But it's more of a growing problem then blooming with them. Of course recently, even more so. P armeniacum I've bloomed 2 plants at the same time. Again, a culture issue is going on. I've bloomed emersonii once in my life time and it turned out to be a dog of a flower. Go figure, all that work for it to bark back at you. I have 6 emersonii's now and they all were going down hill but this past summer they have all turned a round and are growing bigger instead of smaller. An old timer told me once he kept loosing his emersonii's until he made dang sure to repotted every year. I'll keep experimenting until I loose them or get it right. I did place all the Parvi's and Bachy's next to the wet wall one summer and that was a diseaster! 
I'm going to add more fans to get rid of some dead spots. I know that will help. Let me know about CHC when you get a chance.

Rick


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jan 20, 2008)

Aahhhhh...that's a big problem with emersonii. Most parvis will look good when they bloom, even if they are an "inferior" bloom. My armeniacum was small, but it was still gorgeous to look at. But emersonii is either gorgeous or hideous...doesn't seem to have much middle ground. As for CHC, you mentioned a "brick". Coco-peat (coir) comes in a brick...its the powdered remains of coconut husk, used as a peat substitute. I use it mixed with perlite for terrestrials (Ludisia, and Cymbidiums love it) but it isn't too good for most other orchids, although I use it on rootless paphs...they will revive somewhat, but never grow many roots in it. Non-orchids actually die in the stuff. CHC looks similar to bark, just with distinct fibers. There was a recent thread here about how CHC was damaging to paphs in the long run...and I am finding that out to be true for many of my paphs (not parvi's or brachy's). It can't be the salt...I soak it a minimum of 3 times,(1 gal or less CHC to 5 gal water) using Ca NO3 and Mg SO4 in the second soaking..and besides, if salts were retained, then brachy's would certainly die in it. A common feature that I find when I repot CHC paphs is that all the live roots are near the top of the mix...and the leaves are very yellow....Take care, Eric


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## Leo Schordje (Jan 21, 2008)

If you have bloomed micranthum half a dozen times and gotten an award you aren't doing that badly. Don't make radical changes. 
The only thing I see that I would change is your fertilizer. I use Green Care's MSU Orchid special or MSU Plug Special exclusively. Dyna Grow also makes something similar. Read the articles in Orchids and in Orchid Digest by Jan Szyren. A 20-20-20 fertilizer is NOT balanced, you need a high nitrogen fertilizer to meet the balance of your plant's needs. Definitley the 'Blossom Booster' high phosphorous is more harmful than helpful. The good thing is your concentrations at 100 ppm were low enough you likely avoided phosphorous toxicity. Improve your nutrition and you will have better results. With MSU (I think the ratios are 13.5-1.5-12 or something close to that) you can use a higher concentration, I use 250 ppm, and this will give you faster growth and more frequent blooming. Also, MSU has all the micro nutrients. 
Good growing - Leo


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## NYEric (Jan 25, 2008)

Eric Muehlbauer said:


> Coco-peat (coir) comes in a brick...its the powdered remains of coconut husk, used as a peat substitute. I use it mixed with perlite for terrestrials (Ludisia, and Cymbidiums love it)


So that's what that is! Thanx Eric.


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## Brabantia (Jan 25, 2008)

I am in agreement with what Leo says, Peters 20-20-20 fertilizer decrease the pH of the potting media because it contains nitrogen on the ammonia form. MSU is the best because it contains nearly all the nitrogen on the nitrate form. During the nitrogen assimilation processus by the plant when nitrogen is present in the fertilizer in the nitrate form the pH of the potting increase this what love the paphios. Ideally the pH of the fertilyser solution must be adjusted at a pH ranging between 6 and 7 before being distributed.


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## streetmorrisart (Jan 25, 2008)

I've been lurking at this thread. I love parvis above all slippers and have a good number of them, most of which were purchased or traded for on the young side, though they'd likely have bloomed sooner under ideal conditions. I see sheaths on a bunch after changing the lighting situation (added a bunch of fat cfls), but I'm guessing MSU will be another good move...I've been thinking about it for a year or so while continuing to use a balanced multipurpose fertilizer. The switch is hard to make being a UofM Ann Arbor grad! Just kidding. MSU knows farming and horticulture.


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## SlipperFan (Jan 25, 2008)

I'd like to add that I do get CHC in brick form from the Kinsman Company. It works just like the coir in that it expands when it is soaked. But it is chips. I do rinse it 3 times before using it.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jan 25, 2008)

I have seen CHC offerred in brick form...usually in massive sizes (3 cu ft) but I think also in "hobby" bags...sorry....Eric


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## cnycharles (Jan 26, 2008)

SlipperKing said:


> I saw on one of the forums, a guy growing armeniacum in a moss lined wire basket with muliple growths sticking out everywhere! Pretty cool.
> 
> Rick



Hello Rick,
I'm wondering what the media was that was in the armeniacum basket? I'd like to try that, my armeniacums when they put out new sideshoots they turn brown and die back. If they are down in the media they look good but when I move the media away from above the shoot they turn brown.

Is brown bottom leaves (slowly browning and drying up) with paphs more or less equal to bottom leaves of phals turning yellow and falling off (due to not enough nitrogen fertilizer)?
thanks,
charles


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## SlipperKing (Jan 26, 2008)

What I remember, the wire basket was lined with sphagnum moss, half to one inch thick. Then a "standard" Paphs mix added to the moss. Again, I think the mix was a bark, sponge rock and charcoal.


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## Rick (Jan 26, 2008)

cnycharles said:


> Hello Rick,
> I'm wondering what the media was that was in the armeniacum basket? I'd like to try that, my armeniacums when they put out new sideshoots they turn brown and die back. If they are down in the media they look good but when I move the media away from above the shoot they turn brown.
> 
> Is brown bottom leaves (slowly browning and drying up) with paphs more or less equal to bottom leaves of phals turning yellow and falling off (due to not enough nitrogen fertilizer)?
> ...



I did the basket routine for both micranthum and armeniacum. I used wood slat baskets and lined them with sheet moss from Home Depot. I also had a good flat piece of limestone in the bottom. Then I potted up the plants with Antec style CHC mix with about with about 1/4 part of the mix crushed oyster shell. I was able to get a good growth of live moss growing on the top. Humidity stays upwards of 70% year round in the GH. Those plants grew very well for about 3 or so years in that system, but I had allot of erwinia last summer that got them both one growth at a time. I've picked up a couple of new ones since, but haven't got around to setting them up in the baskets yet.


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## SlipperKing (Jan 26, 2008)

Here is the Pic posted by JPMC on the other forum. Hope this helps.


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## cnycharles (Jan 26, 2008)

SlipperKing said:


> Here is the Pic posted by JPMC on the other forum. Hope this helps.



thanks, all the info is very helpful
charles


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## JeanLux (Jan 27, 2008)

cnycharles said:


> I'm wondering what the media was that was in the armeniacum basket? I'd like to try that, my armeniacums when they put out new sideshoots they turn brown and die back. charles



I have the same phenomenon with 2 armeniacums. Thanks for the tip with the basket. I should try this; maybe I would be able to get a plant like that on the picture (hahah)!!
Jean


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## Berrak (Jan 27, 2008)

Another way is to use a low and wide pot.
I killed ny armeiniacum beacuse I did not let it rest
Its some years ago.


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## Rick (Jan 27, 2008)

SlipperKing said:


> Here is the Pic posted by JPMC on the other forum. Hope this helps.



That's cool. Here's a picture of the micranthum. It didn't ramble as much as armeniacum.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jan 27, 2008)

I recognize the tag from Andy's......


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## Rick (Jan 28, 2008)

Eric Muehlbauer said:


> I recognize the tag from Andy's......



That's were I got it originally. I had it potted this way for 3 years before its demise.


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## DavidH (Jan 30, 2008)

I'm still trying to learn how to grow my armeniacums and micranthums. I have about 150 of each. So far, most of them are in CHC, but some are in bark. I have lots of new baby growths in the CHC, but the bark has the larger plants. The CHC stays much wetter than the bark. I also have a few in a coir/diatomite mix and they're sending out stolons versus new growths at the base of the older growths.

As for flowering, I think the cold temperatures finally spiked the micranthums to push out their buds (58 F at night in the greenhouse). I have one plant that's sending up two spikes on different growths, with one of the flowers getting ready to fade. I have about 12 more starting to push up the buds. Armeniacums, on the other hand, have been blooming since June. There's always a plant somewhere pushing up a spike. I've had very few bud blasts on armeniacums while micranthums have been around 50%. My micranthums from Sam Tsui have been the most reliable bloomers (50% of his have budded/bloomed, whereas about 10% of my imported ones have budded/bloomed).


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jan 30, 2008)

150 of each?????!!!!!!!! No wonder you can bloom them! I've got 2 clones of each.....neither of which like the idea of blooming.....Eric


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## NYEric (Jan 31, 2008)

must like them...


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## DavidH (Jan 31, 2008)

Yep, I like them.


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## tim (Feb 1, 2008)

*parvi ideas*

I was fortunate enough to visit the grower of armeniacum 'Nova' FCC/AOS, which has the highest FCC of any plant ever awarded. He said that what really benefits armeniacum and micranthum (not necessarily other parvis - he didn't have experience with the others) is a handful of "chicken grit" - crushed oystershell - as a top dressing when the plant begins to show a bud. So calcium it is...

As far as making it to that point, I'd say good water, correct temps and overall good culture are your best bets...these plant are "fussier" about these conditions than alot of other paphs, so are good determinants of your overall growing conditions.

-Tim


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## NYEric (Feb 1, 2008)

H.P. Norton said that it takes too long to break down the calcium from eggshells so I'm going to look thru the threads here for a liquid solution.


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## JDY (Feb 1, 2008)

*Liquid lime*

After talking to Sam Tsui i started using liquid lime on all of my Orchids. One time a month on Paphiopedilums i didn't ask him how much or how often so i use 1 tsp. My other plants every 3 months.

Liquid Dolomitic Lime ONLY!
The kind i use is called GET-A-LAWN made by RainGrow www.raingrow.com 1-877-232-7651 i bought it at Sears.

Hope this helps
Jon


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## cnycharles (Feb 1, 2008)

NYEric said:


> H.P. Norton said that it takes too long to break down the calcium from eggshells so I'm going to look thru the threads here for a liquid solution.



I heard that somewhere else recently, but elsewhere I've read that if you use cold water the lime can leach out much more quickly, almost too quickly. They suggested using warm water so that you didn't get an overdose, and to not use the crushed lime found in garden supply stores. I don't know which one is 'right'.

The other thing you can do is to just use fertilizer that has calcium/magnesium right in the mix, and or use calcium nitrate straight fertilizer from time to time which is where most of these fertilizers get their calcium. Calcium is very important for new growth, when our poinsettias are starting to get red bracts we spray with pharm. grade calcium water to keep them from burning. Same general problem happens with orchids in that leading edges can't get enough as it doesn't move really quickly in the plant, and it must be in constant supply as it doesn't translocate from one spot to another like nitrogen.


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## Rick (Feb 2, 2008)

We've gone over this before, but I'll through it out again for discussion.

The point of adding oyster shell or lime is not to supplement calcium (there is more than enough in your fertilizer), but to buffer the pH of your potting mix.

Without lime, crushed coral, dolomite, or oyster shell addition, the pH of your potting mix will be acidic. Parvis (with the exception of delanatii) and brachys come out of limestone based soils that are usually neutral to basic in pH.

There are lots of physiological process that are facilitated at certain pH ranges (such as the uptake of nutrients). So I can't guess which ones they might be for parvis. But if that's what they like to grow in in the wild it's a good starting point for greenhouse culture.


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## cnycharles (Feb 2, 2008)

Rick said:


> We've gone over this before, but I'll through it out again for discussion.
> 
> The point of adding oyster shell or lime is not to supplement calcium (there is more than enough in your fertilizer), but to buffer the pH of your potting mix.
> 
> ...



thanks for the refresher for new people,..... another point of using certain fertilizers is that the same effect can happen. If you use certain types, a plant gives off certain 'wastes' through it's roots to take up the elements of the fertilizer. By using the different types, the media can then head either basic or acidic. If you have a media that has perfect aeration, then using a fertilizer to achieve the proper pH helps keep the pores open. If you toss in too much of a small substance it can clog things up, potentially. two sides to the coin. If the plant doesn't mind small pore spaces and you can mix the additive evenly and the pores are still fairly even preventing unwanted dead spots then you're in business either way.


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