# Growers: How Are you Dealing With the Heat?



## paphreek (Jul 20, 2011)

The temperature is currently 92F (33C) and rising here in northern Minnesota, and there have been much hotter temps throughout much of the US. How are you keeping your plants cool? Do they even need cooling and at what temperature does the heat become critical? My questions relate to greenhouse growing, but responses from outdoor and in house growers would be good, too.

Here are the things I am doing to keep my greenhouse cool:
1. Aluminet shade cloth











2. Two 19" exhaust fans with intake vents on lower part of opposite wall.





3. HAF fans inside to mix air and eliminate hot spots.





4. "Custom" under bench misting system, using 54F(12C) well water. oke:





5. Finally, a big old oak tree which starts to shade the greenhouse around 3:00 PM.

Current greenhouse temp at 3:30: 90F (32C) and holding.


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## Rick (Jul 20, 2011)

My Jaybird fogger has been running 4 or more hours a day on these super hot sunny days, and I have a single big ventilator fan that kicks in at the high 80's too.

I have seen a few temps in the low 90's in the upper half of the GH out of the line of the wet pad and fogger, so I'm pretty sure I have some areas near the wet pad still in the 80's


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## Shiva (Jul 20, 2011)

My greenhouse is in full sun all summer long and even with white shade paint and ventilation, i find it too risky to leave the plants inside so out they go to a shade house where they are sprayed regularly to keep the leaves cool during hot weather. I have been using a shading net for many years but i plan to put a fiberglass roof over part of the structure next year leaving the sides open for ventilation.


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## emydura (Jul 20, 2011)

I have a Jaybird fogger like Rick and I find that is very good at stopping the temperature from getting really hot. I also have an evaporative cooler which comes on when the temperature goes above 30oC, although that is rarely needed. In my glasshouse the temperature is very stable, irrespective of what the temperature is outside. The hottest it would ever get in my glasshouse is 31oC.

David


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## Scott Ware (Jul 20, 2011)

It is nearly 2:00pm and a scorching 64F outside my greenhouse here in the Puget Sound area. According to a local TV station's website KOMOTV.com, Seattle has only experienced temperatures in excess of 80F for 78 minutes in all of 2011. _*I am NOT complaining.*_


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## Brian Monk (Jul 20, 2011)

My shade house is open, so I just increase the shade in the summer. 

And beer. Lots of cold beer.


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## lindafrog (Jul 20, 2011)

Heat wave @ 95 is hitting us in northwestern lower Michigan.. where it rarely reaches into the high 80's. We have shade cloth on greenhouse and exhaust fan kicks in at 80. I make it rain couple of times a day for the restrepia and dracula along with plants that I don't put outside. Big bargain was a standing misting fan from closeout at Lowes-- $29 marked down from $130. Outside cymbidiums are doing okay in shade of cherry trees. The plants are in trays of water and I hose them down once in afternoon. I would be more worried about flower gardens and blueberry patch but we were lucky. A long soaking storm on Sunday night drenched our sandy soil with a couple of inches of rain. I feel for all our you in places south of us, which includes just about everyone !
Take care, keep your self and your orchids hydrated. I'm on my second gallon of solar green tea!
lindafrog


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## jtrmd (Jul 20, 2011)

I think it was 96f here today with a heat index of 103f or something.GH still hasn't been out of the 80s yet.The stuff (Cyms,Vandas)that is outside is still doing good,but I stepped up the watering.


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## valenzino (Jul 20, 2011)

Send me some sun please!Here is worst summer ever!Rain Rain Rain and Rain!!!


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## Marco (Jul 20, 2011)

Personally....I stay in the A/C


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## paphioboy (Jul 20, 2011)

Oh c'mon people... Orchid are not such wusses.  Bit extra heat and sun won't kill them...


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## paphreek (Jul 20, 2011)

paphioboy said:


> Oh c'mon people... Orchid are not such wusses.  Bit extra heat and sun won't kill them...



Point well taken! What is challenging for us in extreme temperate climates is to build a growing area that can function for 5 months in subfreezing temps and then turn around and be equally functional in 90+F temps for three months. With 90F temps and full sun beating down on the greenhouse, without some way of dissipating the heat, such as exhaust fans, temps inside can raise rapidly to over 130 degrees, killing all the plants.


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## SlipperFan (Jul 20, 2011)

valenzino said:


> Send me some sun please!Here is worst summer ever!Rain Rain Rain and Rain!!!


I sure wish we could do some trading! We need rain so badly, and that after a very wet Spring!



paphioboy said:


> Oh c'mon people... Orchid are not such wusses.  Bit extra heat and sun won't kill them...


I'm so glad you said that -- I was beginning to worry after reading all the previous posts.

My greenhouse got to 95ºF today -- the hottest it's been. I think the temperature outside was the same. I added an extra fan on the floor in the center. My other two fans, now set on high, are just above my head, and so pull the air mostly around the middle to upper part of the greenhouse. The vent fan pulls the uppermost air out of the greenhouse, bringing outside air in through the louvered vents and awning windows. So I expect the greenhouse will never be cooler than the outside air in the hot weather. The greenhouse will certainly be tested tomorrow when it's supposed to get to 97. My hope is that there will be a cloud cover during the hottest part of the day -- that should help.

I've thought about adding shade cloth, but so far I've not needed it.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jul 20, 2011)

Nearly all my orchids are outdoors. I've stopped fertilizing the paphs...I hose them over nearly every day. They seem fine, my only problem is my lack of shade (thanks to last fall's tornado/microburst). My phrags and some of my paphs are scorched on some leaves...even the Barbata's have a burn mark or 2...just much shady places for them. No lasting damage though. Otherwise the increased sun has been a blessing...getting loads of veggies for the first time in years.


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## Rick (Jul 20, 2011)

paphioboy said:


> Oh c'mon people... Orchid are not such wusses.  Bit extra heat and sun won't kill them...



I know I've had an occasional 100/103 temps in the old GH with crappier cooling systems in place. But with sustained day temps in high 90's and low 100's the plants definitely showed some were and tear. They definitely quit growing.

So the new systems are a welcome relief to stay below 95 so far. As Ross said the GH without cooling and ventilation could hit 130 on a sunny day, and then things would look like Death Valley. My alternative would be to make a big open shade structure under the trees and move everything outside (which is not unheard of in these parts).

Although we are not seeing record highs (maybe record consecutive >90 days), the regular rains we used to get this time of year have become very irregular, so air humidity is usually <50% on these hot days too. So I could put everyone out of the GH to get out of the heat, but then I'd have to add something to constantly mist to keep them from drying out. 

So I might add more shade cloth to the GH before abandoning it to the great outdoors.


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## Ernie (Jul 20, 2011)

95+. You mean June through October, Ross?  

All you midwesterners should come down to Florida to cool of a little.  

Even stuff that is supposed to like full to barely diffused sun (strap leaf vandas, Arundina, reedstem Epidendrums, etc) don't handle it in the middle of summer when it's hot. Providing mid-day shade helps a lot. Humidity and air movement also help a TON. Established terete vandas are going apes#$% now though. 

To top it off, we're fully into the wet season here, so most days have better than 50% chance of precip (anywhere from drizzles that evaporate before hitting the ground to torrents) somewhere between lunch and dinner (usually around 5-6 pm, just as I'm hopping on my bike to commute home- feels great actually!). So the rain barrels are ever-full and we water less frequently than in spring and fall since mom nature helps out. With all the moisture and humidity, gotta watch fungal and bacterial issues. And mosquito blooms. 

Oddly, the tropical storms in the Atlantic (Brett & Cindy) moving N, NE are sucking the moisture from us, so we've been dry the past five days or so.


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## Rick (Jul 20, 2011)

Pretty cool. 

I just read out the data logger which showed I haven't cleared 92 in the GH with outside ambients hitting close to 100. Also the peak temps(above 90) are only lasting for no more than 2 hours.

So as long as we don't have a power outage.......:sob:


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## John M (Jul 20, 2011)

Rick said:


> So as long as we don't have a power outage.......:sob:



 'You a gambler, Rick?


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## John M (Jul 20, 2011)

valenzino said:


> Send me some sun please!Here is worst summer ever!Rain Rain Rain and Rain!!!



So, where is "Here"? You haven't included your location in your profile. It REALLY helps to know that. It puts things into perspective.


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## tocarmar (Jul 20, 2011)

It was about 95 today with heat index at about 100. Tomorrow & friday are going to be hotter. I have most of mine in the basement about 70 now. The only ones outside are the Cyps, & 1 Cymbidium which only get morning sun & shade the rest of the day. I have misted them 2x's a day with the heat.


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## Rick (Jul 20, 2011)

John M said:


> 'You a gambler, Rick?



No but live for ulcers

At least the significant summer power outages normally are from big thunder storms when there is cloud cover, so the odds of a 130 degree meltdown are pretty low.


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## paphioboy (Jul 21, 2011)

It gets up to 45 degrees Celsius (113 Fahrenheit for all you Americans ) in summer here in Adelaide (not now, around December to February). Most growers here just use shadecloth for cyms, zygos, dends and some paphs (insigne, spicer etc..) and they seem to survive the heat just fine... Crowd the plants together and damp down frequently. That should help them weather through the heat.. 



John M said:


> So, where is "Here"? You haven't included your location in your profile. It REALLY helps to know that. It puts things into perspective.



Alex is in Italy, I believe...


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## emydura (Jul 21, 2011)

If you can keep the air humid the plants will withstand the heat better. That can be difficult here in Canberra where the humidity in summer is often below 10%. The fogger comes in handy on days like this. We had one summer day where the temperature was well over 40oC. The hottest Canberra day I have experienced. Many local orchid growers lost a lot of plants. Even on this day my glasshouse barely went above 30oC. My fogger ran for four or five hours straight though without stopping.

David


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## Roth (Jul 21, 2011)

paphioboy said:


> It gets up to 45 degrees Celsius (113 Fahrenheit for all you Americans ) in summer here in Adelaide (not now, around December to February). Most growers here just use shadecloth for cyms, zygos, dends and some paphs (insigne, spicer etc..) and they seem to survive the heat just fine... Crowd the plants together and damp down frequently. That should help them weather through the heat..
> 
> Alex is in Italy, I believe...



In Hanoi we got crazy weather here too... Until last year I was quite afraid of the temperatures, however I found that many plant take very high temperature here ( 36celsius day, 28-30 night) if they have a very good root system. I do not restrain the fertilizer, but the trend is to increase the potassium and ammonium, and lower drastically the nitrate ( for those who still use it). It makes a nice dark green plant with good leaves. For unknown reasons, nitrate + high temps = very yellow washed out leaves, but ammonium is fine, and the plant anyway need a nitrogen source somewhere. I have a highland place too where it's still cool...

The other trend is to use shadecloth WELL ABOVE the greenhouses, over a meter. That's what they do in Thailand and Malaysia. If you put the shading too close to the greenhouse you still get residual heat captured by the shade cloth (maybe not aluminium, I am not experienced with that one, but black one, that's sure...), and in fact it can be warmer than without a shadecloth.


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## emydura (Jul 21, 2011)

Roth said:


> The other trend is to use shadecloth WELL ABOVE the greenhouses, over a meter. That's what they do in Thailand and Malaysia. If you put the shading too close to the greenhouse you still get residual heat captured by the shade cloth (maybe not aluminium, I am not experienced with that one, but black one, that's sure...), and in fact it can be warmer than without a shadecloth.



I think that is important too. My shadecloth sits a fair distance from the glass. Not a metre though.

David


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## Ray (Jul 21, 2011)

I had a 100' tall tulip poplar taken down a couple of weeks ago (was struck by lightning and was dying), and it was my "shade cloth". 

Despite lots of ventilation and a Jaybird fogger, i did get some slight burning on a few plants. Fortunately, the Aluminet came in and i was able to get it installed last week.

Separation between the glazing and shadecloth is not as important with Aluminet as with others. Being aluminized Mylar, it tends to reflect the light, rather than absorbing it and turning it into heat, which is what happens with pigmented shadecloths. I noted a 10°F interior temperature drop within 30 minutes of installation.


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## Rick (Jul 21, 2011)

Ray said:


> I had a 100' tall tulip poplar taken down a couple of weeks ago (was struck by lightning and was dying), and it was my "shade cloth".
> 
> Despite lots of ventilation and a Jaybird fogger, i did get some slight burning on a few plants. Fortunately, the Aluminet came in and i was able to get it installed last week.
> 
> Separation between the glazing and shadecloth is not as important with Aluminet as with others. Being aluminized Mylar, it tends to reflect the light, rather than absorbing it and turning it into heat, which is what happens with pigmented shadecloths. I noted a 10°F interior temperature drop within 30 minutes of installation.



Yes Aluminet is a whole different world from standard black shadecloth.

I've had warped/cooked PVC support pipes in my old GH when the black shade cloth was laying on top of it.


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## NYEric (Jul 21, 2011)

More water to pots, more misting, move some cool growers into the AC bedroom. . Lock the cat in the air conditioned bedroom and open the windows for more cross ventilation...


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## goldenrose (Jul 21, 2011)

The plants seem to be dealing with the heat better than I am!
I have 6 small fans in my 8' x 12' GH plus the exhaust fan, I've now added 2 more fans. I use 6-9" fans as I can place them in nooks & get better air movement thruout the whole GH. The aluminet stays on 24/7, the GH is shaded by trees from about 1:30 on and normally I would raise it but not now. About a dozen plants have been moved outside to protected areas to allow more air circulation in between plants inside the GH. I have supplemental flourescent lights under the one row of benches, seedlings & compots are there, those lights have been turned off. Fertilizer has been reduced except on the high light plants or heavy feeders.
I'd start the rain dance but it's too darn hot & humid to exert that amount of energy!


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## John M (Jul 21, 2011)

Rick said:


> Yes Aluminet is a whole different world from standard black shadecloth.
> 
> I've had warped/cooked PVC support pipes in my old GH when the black shade cloth was laying on top of it.



My greenhouse is double poly inflated plastic with 50% black knitted shade cloth tied down tightly right against the plastic on the outside. Zero air space. The greenhouse is 30' wide and 48' long. There is a 4' x 24' vent in the back and a 48" exahaust fan in the middle at the front. Other than one dead spot (at the front on the west side), that heats up a bit too much, the temps inside are kept at no higher than the temps outside with this size of exhaust fan. Today....in fact, in a few minutes, I'm going out to instal a sprayer line that will spray a heavy mist accross the entire back vent opening, which will cool the air a bit as it is drawn in by the exhaust fan at the other end. I've got a stream near the greenhouse to draw the water from; so, I don't need to worry about collecting the water and recycling it. I call it a poor man's evaporative cooler. Since today is going up to 39*C (!!!), I think I need to do this. I've got a lot of Disas that I'm concerned about and hundreds of Vandas that I don't want to blast their buds. I find that the Vandas stop growing when it gets too hot.


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## Erythrone (Jul 21, 2011)

I installed a small air conditioner in the basement in the growing area. 


My Paphs don't seem to hate hot weather but many other dislike it... Except my 3 Lippewunder. Lots of stress last summer.

Masdevallias and Intergeneric ondicium were a pity last year.

Some Phrags are tricky about hot weather here. My popowii was not very happy last year. Now it is OK. I put the pot in larger pot filled with wet moss. Same for Masds. Seems to help a lot. And since I now have an air conditioner...

A question about fogger: is it very effective when RH is high?


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## John M (Jul 21, 2011)

Rick said:


> No but live for ulcers
> 
> At least the significant summer power outages normally are from big thunder storms when there is cloud cover, so the odds of a 130 degree meltdown are pretty low.



Hmmmm? Seems that the answer is "Yes", you are a gambler! Well, it's none of my business; but, unless Murphy's Law doesn't apply in Tennessee, I'd be worried sick. What about power outages in the winter when it's below freezing? FWIW, calculating that the odds of anything bad happening (were very low), was what I did the night my greenhouse froze. I had taken my back-up heater offline for repairs for just one night. I was in the middle of a maintenance / repair job when it got dark and I didn't want to have to haul lights down to the heater to finish. I figured I'd just leave the back-up heater offline that one night and finish the job the next day. That was the night that for the first time in 15 years, the thermocouple on my other heater gave up and the pilot light went out. When I went to the greenhouse the next morning, I found that it had frozen overnight. I wish you luck!


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## Rick (Jul 21, 2011)

John M said:


> Hmmmm? Seems that the answer is "Yes", you are a gambler! Well, it's none of my business; but, unless Murphy's Law doesn't apply in Tennessee, I'd be worried sick. What about power outages in the winter when it's below freezing? FWIW, calculating that the odds of anything bad happening (were very low), was what I did the night my greenhouse froze. I had taken my back-up heater offline for repairs for just one night. I was in the middle of a maintenance / repair job when it got dark and I didn't want to have to haul lights down to the heater to finish. I figured I'd just leave the back-up heater offline that one night and finish the job the next day. That was the night that for the first time in 15 years, the thermocouple on my other heater gave up and the pilot light went out. When I went to the greenhouse the next morning, I found that it had frozen overnight. I wish you luck!



I'm in much better shape for winter. My base heating is electric, but I have a freestanding, non-electric propane heater with enough BTU to handle the whole GH should I loose power (yes, would be better with fans for circulation). I check the opperation of the propane heater and keep it running (at minimum levels) throughout the cold season. I recently got a small gas generator that could handle fans that needs a tune up, but it doesn't have an auto start. My wife is generally not to far from home to give me alerts to outages when I'm at work. 

I do have telemetry to get temps in the house from the GH at night. But no auto dial to my cell phone to alert me at work. 

It's not perfect, but getting there. Also compared to Canada we don't get the severe cold (neither depth nor duration) that you have up North. 

Having a back up auto generator to run circulatory fans is the ultimate goal to covering both summer and winter power outages.


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## Bob in Albany N.Y. (Jul 21, 2011)

Well, my high temp. alarm went off in the greenhouse at 2 P.M. today. It was set at 105 degrees. My wife was home and there really wasn't much anyone could do. All the vents where open and locked opened since yesterday. All 4 fans on the rafters where running as was the box fan on the floor. My high low temperature alarm is hooked into my house alarm. They called my home as the first # on the call list and Donna asked them to disarm the alarm for a couple of days. Luckily we don't get too many days of heat like this. 

I worry more about the winter but do have a southern burner backup furnace with the pilot light burning as well as a generator that runs on propane and turns on as soon as we lose power for 5 seconds. I've learned from John M. and I would hope others do as well.


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## Rick (Jul 21, 2011)

Erythrone said:


> A question about fogger: is it very effective when RH is high?



If the ambient temp of the input water is already high and the RH is greater than 80% then you will get minimum cooling.

But generally the fogger is fed by a cooler water source, and typically you would have ventilators sucking in relatively dry air from outside at <80% RH.

So fogging is normally pretty effective.


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## John M (Jul 21, 2011)

Bob in Albany said:


> I worry more about the winter but do have a southern burner backup furnace with the pilot light burning as well as a generator that runs on propane and turns on as soon as we lose power for 5 seconds. I've learned from John M. and I would hope others do as well.


 I need to update my auto start generator. Mine is a dinosaur! Could you tell me more about yours, please?


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## goldenrose (Jul 22, 2011)

*Relief!*

The rolling thunder & lightning woke me up early this am, then came the much needed rain - over an inch! Now let's hope the sun doesn't come out!


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## Shiva (Jul 22, 2011)

Minimum 29°C at wake-up this morning in my house. I've become a real fan of the man who invented the fan.


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## Erythrone (Jul 22, 2011)

Rick said:


> If the ambient temp of the input water is already high and the RH is greater than 80% then you will get minimum cooling.
> 
> But generally the fogger is fed by a cooler water source, and typically you would have ventilators sucking in relatively dry air from outside at <80% RH.
> 
> So fogging is normally pretty effective.



thank you Rick for your explaination.

That is what I thought... It would not be effective in the room where my orchids grow. HR can be higher thant 80% all day long for a few months and I am concern about disease.

Air conditionner seems to do a good job for me. And HR is now lower..... 60 to 70%! Not too low. Unfortunatly it is an energy consuming solution.


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## Erythrone (Jul 22, 2011)

Shiva said:


> Minimum 29°C at wake-up this morning in my house. I've become a real fan of the man who invented the fan.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jul 22, 2011)

Well, when I got back from LI today (where it was only 98) I saw that it was 103....it will be interesting to see what gets affected. Hosed everything down...paphs still look good, phrags look like they were in a toaster oven.


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## paphioboy (Jul 23, 2011)

Shiva said:


> Minimum 29°C at wake-up this morning in my house. I've become a real fan of the man who invented the fan.



Excuse me, that's what we people who live in the tropics wake up to almost every single day... oke:


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## Rick (Jul 23, 2011)

paphioboy said:


> Excuse me, that's what we people who live in the tropics wake up to almost every single day... oke:


And that's why you guys are running around NAKED, while the Canadians are still running around in their parkas!!

In Southern US that's not uncommon during the summer too, but in the winter you can still get freezing temps.

Must be nice never to worry about having a heater blow out and freeze your collection in the winteroke:oke:

However, we see on this website that more than not most people in the tropics live at lower elevations that are considerably warmer than the higher elevations where many of our favorite paphs are found. And I've seen plenty of comments that one plant or another doesn't grow good for them because it gets too hot.

Comparing what is trouble free for me compared to our northern friends I see some differences too. The most obvious seems to be how trouble free they grow Pleurothalids, (which I can only keep indoors in air conditioning) while my Bulbophyllums are like monster weeds with no effort at all.

Overall its really good to have all these international viewpoints to share. We can see how much we can "stretch" our plants and figure different strategies to compensate.


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## mormodes (Jul 23, 2011)

paphioboy said:


> Excuse me, that's what we people who live in the tropics wake up to almost every single day... oke:



I agree. Who was it who said orchids aren't wusses. They can take this heat. A few weeks ago I posted about how the swamp cooler went out in my GH. I totally freaked. I wound up learning not to depend on these contrivances. I took a panel off the greenhouse thereby negating the Greenhouse effect. The heat did not build up so the orchids didn't steam in the ambient 98F temps. Had I left the wall intact it'd have been 113 if not higher inside the GH, higher still at the roofline. 

I haven't put the siding back on since June 21 even though the swamp cooler is now operational. Ambient high temps are 95F or so. Low temps are 62F. [shrug] Jerry Rodder used to say these temperature differentials pull more air through the pots. Maybe yes, maybe no. But I'm happy with the better air quality inside the GH. 

My challenge has become ambient humidity (20-40%) - which you guys in the rest of the USA have plenty of. So take a wall off the GH and let the breezes blow through it. Shade cloth keeps out larger bugs, pets and other nocturnal animals.

I suppose my point is that I learned something from the heat wave. I learned to give up and stop trying to control everything. Stop trying to provide the perfect temps etc. The weather at this point in time isn't really *that* bad. Its just shaking us out of our complacency.

BTW a Paph Constance that has never bloomed for me is putting up a spike. A happy coincidence. A Paph Armeni White that never bloomed for me did too. Again a coincidence. I think what's actually going on is that I have to go out to the GH and damp down the floor. Not that this is what's helping the orchids either. Its getting me out looking at them. Paying attention wheres I used to just think they were OK out in the GH. Instead I'm looking at them daily. Kind of like what Bill Thoms says about having a friend put 10 pennies someplace in teh GH and seeing how long it takes you to find all 10.

I await your vocal disagreements. LOL! (easy for me to say as I sit in my pajamas on my patio sipping coffee, barefoot... ain't life in the San Fran Bay Area grand?)

Don't worry. Be happy. - Meher Baba


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## Shiva (Jul 23, 2011)

paphioboy said:


> Excuse me, that's what we people who live in the tropics wake up to almost every single day... oke:



Would you rather have -35°C in the dead of winter? That's the range of temps we have here over the year. I'm not complaining though. I like the glorious seasonal changes. Of course, I consider -35°C a tad too cold. oke:


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## Rick (Jul 23, 2011)

mormodes said:


> .
> 
> My challenge has become ambient humidity (20-40%) - which you guys in the rest of the USA have plenty of. So take a wall off the GH and let the breezes blow through it.
> 
> ...



Tennesse humidity ain't what it used to be. Right after a good rain it will jump up to the 50-60% range (probably >70% at night), but I've been here since 96 and for the last couple/few years, the RH has been in the 30-40% range just like out where you are. It used to rain a little almost every day in the summer, but now it goes for weeks without a drop (almost as bad as when I lived in Oklahoma). Maybe its more humid farther south and north. But in the middle of the country, we went from record rains to drought in about a 2 month period. I still do a fair amount of work in Oklahoma and monitor stream flows. This spring in Tx Ok, Ks there was mega rains and widespread flooding. Now its so dry that farmers and ranchers are going under. The primary stream I monitor went from well over 100cfs to under 10 cfs in about 2 months.

I don't have time, space, money to build a second structure that's open air. My greenhouse isn't designed for easy removal of walls since I needed maximum sealing for winter humidity and heat savings, and need to save my resources to up-grade my winter heating system. So shade/ventilation and fogging has been the strategy for me.


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## cnycharles (Jul 23, 2011)

it's interesting to read about how people all over deal with the heat, and also the cold (and everyone's perspectives). at work, we have small greenhouses and very big ones; others that are all forced-air cooling and others that the roof opens up. the big open-roof houses are very nice right now while the forced-air ones are very toasty. black cloth is a killer in the small houses where mums and asters are being shaded for daylight length control (to make them flower later) while aluminet really helps to cut the heat. having small peak vents in your greenhouse no matter if it's large or small, is a great way to dump out some heat!

in my apartment I have to turn off some of the fluorescent lights when it gets hot since I live in a second-floor apartment with most of the windows on the south side so my apt and plants don't get too hot. more fans around and especially in the windows to pull in cooler air (if it cools off at night) from outside makes a difference, though I have a/c in my bedroom and sometimes when it's really hot crank it up and put a fan in the doorway to push some cold air out into the living room


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## SlipperFan (Jul 23, 2011)

I have to add an addendum to my note. 

One the day it was supposed to get to 97ºF and sunny, and that morning the coolest (!) it got in the greenhouse was 81º, I decided I'd better not take a chance. I had some remay material from my vegetable garden, so I draped that over the rods I hang my plants from and added an extra fan. It got to 96º inside -- a degree or two cooler than outside, and the leaves didn't fry from the sun.

So I'm a believer, and will probably be getting some aluminet to put over the outside, if I can figure out how to attach it!


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## mormodes (Jul 23, 2011)

Rick said:


> Tennessee humidity ain't what it used to be.
> 
> I don't have time, space, money to build a second structure that's open air. My greenhouse isn't designed for easy removal of walls since I needed maximum sealing for winter humidity and heat savings, and need to save my resources to up-grade my winter heating system. So shade/ventilation and fogging has been the strategy for me.



I find that very interesting. I guess I gotta travel more. Perhaps in light of climate change we all have to be less rigid and more flexible. I have wondered if the prolonged rainy season we had this year - if it were to continue for a decade or so - what effect that'd have on the Golden State... [sigh]. 

Why isn't it ever easy, *G*!


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## paphioboy (Jul 23, 2011)

> And that's why you guys are running around NAKED, while the Canadians are still running around in their parkas!!



Me no run around nekkid at home... 



mormodes said:


> I suppose my point is that I learned something from the heat wave. I learned to give up and stop trying to control everything. Stop trying to provide the perfect temps etc. The weather at this point in time isn't really *that* bad. Its just shaking us out of our complacency.



True for all the control freaks with greenhouses...  



> Would you rather have -35°C in the dead of winter? That's the range of temps we have here over the year.



 :crazy: No thank you.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jul 23, 2011)

OK...so I'm checking out the damage here. I have several decidous azalea's, a rhododendron, and a red horse chestnut with seriously burnt leaves...all that occurred within the past 24 hours. With my orchids, nothing worse than before...except for a Bepi cattleya that looks pretty toasted...but interestingly, it was far more shaded than the other untouched orchids.


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## Rick (Jul 24, 2011)

SlipperFan said:


> I have to add an addendum to my note.
> 
> 
> 
> So I'm a believer, and will probably be getting some aluminet to put over the outside, if I can figure out how to attach it!




You can order it with grommets all around so you can tie it off to the GH or stakes on the ground (just need rope). There are also shade cloth clips that can be attached to the GH roof.

Some super high-tech folks probably have automatic ways to drop shade cloth curtains from the ridge of their GH's.


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## T. migratoris (Jul 24, 2011)

John M said:


> I need to update my auto start generator. Mine is a dinosaur! Could you tell me more about yours, please?



I recently installed a Generac auto start generator for backup GH power. I bought the smallest one available - 8KW - and delivered it was just a hair over $2K. Came with a pre-wired transfer switch & great installation instructions; the battery was an extra $80 or so. Mine runs on natural gas. It has a little computer in it that allows you to program start delays, the weekly exercise schedule, etc. It starts & runs for 12 minutes once a week to keep the battery juiced up. I only needed one circuit for the GH so I used several of the other transfer switch circuits for our house so now I have backup power for a couple of house circuits as well - refrigerator, chest freezer, couple of lights, couple of receptacles, water heater (I hate cold showers), etc. I've had mine operating for a little less than a year now & it's already operated once during a power outage.


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## John M (Jul 24, 2011)

That sounds nice. I'll google Generac and have a look. Thanks.


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## Bob in Albany N.Y. (Jul 24, 2011)

Hi John

I got beat to the punch. I went outside today and check our generator. Mine said Guardian by Generac. Works for me. It was pricier than the one just quote but mine does the Green house, garage, and most on my home with the exception of the A.C., drier and a couple of odd lights. I love mine. It tests once a week at a time you pick and comes on in about 5 seconds. I started out getting a smaller one. But by the time you start adding the furnace, well, and fridge it turned out it wasn't' all that much more to do most of the house. It even does the electric stove top and oven. If I was able to go back and do it all over again. I would have upgraded to the next size and done everything except the A.C. I really didn't chose the specific brand. I called and few people in and went with the best price.


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## SlipperFan (Jul 24, 2011)

We have a Generac, also. It automatically comes on if power is off for 5 seconds, and goes off when power is restored. It tests itself once a week, as Bob said, at a time of your choosing. It does need to be serviced once a year, and it's a little pricey. But we have the greenhouse, our furnace, freezer, refrig, stove, water pump and heater and a bunch of lights attached to it. When the power went off recently, it was worth it's weight in gold! (Well, almost.)


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## John M (Jul 24, 2011)

Thank you again all! I'd like to get something that will also run stuff in my house too. That would be VERY convenient!


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## SlipperFan (Jul 24, 2011)

Rick said:


> You can order it with grommets all around so you can tie it off to the GH or stakes on the ground (just need rope). There are also shade cloth clips that can be attached to the GH roof.
> 
> Some super high-tech folks probably have automatic ways to drop shade cloth curtains from the ridge of their GH's.



I just saw your post, Rick. I'm doing some research -- thanks for the suggestions.


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## SlipperKing (Aug 7, 2011)

I'll add a little bit about my conditions here in South Texas. Here is the weather we have to deal with





Shading that I currently need because of tree loss.








Next is how well the wet wall works during these 95 degree plus days with no rain. 
Outside Temp in the shade today.




the water pump running for the wet wall




Here I'm checking the water temp of the wet wall reservoir before it starts




Here is the drop in temp after it has ran a few minutes.




This is the temp in the first third of the GH closest to the wet wall.




Here is the temp 2/3 of the way from the wet wall closer to the exhaust fans.




About 10 degrees difference from end to end. The Greenhouse is 32ft long.


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## paphreek (Aug 7, 2011)

Very effective cooling!


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Aug 7, 2011)

OK....so here's the damage so far from last months heat. All but one of my besseae's dead. The survivor not doing so well. The paphs, on the other hand, are doing surprisingly well. The only damage, beyond what they had already sufferred from accidental sunburn, was some burn spots on the leaves of my fowlieii, which was actually completely shaded. Surprisingly, a lot of my paphs are in bud now, and the buds are growing rapidly, not blasting as summer buds usually do- 2 niveums, Clair De Lune, Maudiae "The Queen", Freckles x primulinum (a plant that almost never blooms).


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## goldenrose (Aug 8, 2011)

so sorry to hear that Eric. My phrags overall are showing heat stress but I don't see any in serious trouble ... yet. Our temps dropped to upper 80's but the humidity went up! Yesterday morning & afternoon storms rolled thru & forecasts are saying upper 70's for the week, I'll believe when I see & feel it!


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## paphreek (Aug 8, 2011)

goldenrose said:


> so sorry to hear that Eric. My phrags overall are showing heat stress but I don't see any in serious trouble ... yet. Our temps dropped to upper 80's but the humidity went up! Yesterday morning & afternoon storms rolled thru & forecasts are saying upper 70's for the week, I'll believe when I see & feel it!



It's possible, as our high was 80 today, with a low of 56 tonight, followed by a high tomorrow of 69.


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## Rick (Aug 8, 2011)

I'm pretty pleased with my system so far.

We've had straight temps as high as 102 and sunny. GH hasn't gone above 94, and for no more than a few hours at mid day.

I moved the fogger to the opposite side of the GH from the ventilator fan, and added a vent behind it. So when the big ventilator fan comes on it pulls the outside air through the fogger.


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## Rick (Aug 8, 2011)

SlipperKing said:


> I'll add a little bit about my conditions here in South Texas. Here is the weather we have to deal with
> 
> Shading that I currently need because of tree loss.
> 
> ...



Rick I see you using black shade cloth. Switching to a white or the reflective aluminet will make a significant difference.


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## SlipperKing (Aug 9, 2011)

Rick said:


> Rick I see you using black shade cloth. Switching to a white or the reflective aluminet will make a significant difference.



On my wallet too:rollhappy:.....I'll think about it.


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## eOrchids (Aug 9, 2011)

Phrags are fine (lost a besseae); Non slippers are fine. Some of my Paphs are showing a bit of heat stress and lost a few! :sob:


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