# Fish Moving



## Heather (Mar 4, 2007)

Um....

I am a very bad pet owner. :sob:

The snails got the best of me, and I neglected to clean my fish tank for, well, since the last time I moved. If you've been paying attention you'll know how pathetically long ago that was.  

So, now I am moving again, and I have a new fleet of fish who are used to the unclean tank. How do I go about moving them without stressing the you-know-what out of them? I'd really like to use the opportunity to get all the snail poo out of there...blech. 

I feel as though I am such a bad mother. Thank heavens I don't have more than fish and a cat and some plants. At least I didn't feed the fish to the cat.


----------



## gonewild (Mar 4, 2007)

Heather said:


> Um....
> 
> I am a very bad pet owner. :sob:
> 
> ...



What kind of fish?


----------



## Heather (Mar 4, 2007)

Endler's Livebearers.


----------



## gonewild (Mar 4, 2007)

Heather said:


> Endler's Livebearers.



How many do you have to move?
How long do they need to be out of the aquarium?


----------



## Heather (Mar 4, 2007)

8 or so. They can stay in the aquarium, I just have to remove most of the water. But I also need to clean out the poo and I worry that it will muddy the water so much I cannot see the fish.


----------



## Jon in SW Ohio (Mar 4, 2007)

Fill a few jars/buckets/whatever with water and let it sit overnight, and viola, instant tank water lol.

I do 100% water changes on my fish all the time, with no problems. Just make sure the water sits overnight so all the chlorine evaporates. If you are worried your water is too hard, mix in half or so with RO water.

If you need any specifics or whatever, I should be on AIM.

Jon


----------



## Heather (Mar 4, 2007)

okay, so the drastic switch from dirty to clean water won't upset them, Jon? 
I'm not doing it for a week or two....


----------



## dave b (Mar 4, 2007)

Im guessing that the tank isint too big, since you are moving it with some of the water still in? 

Do use a gravel siphon?


----------



## Heather (Mar 4, 2007)

Yes, Dave, I have a siphon and it is just a 6 gallon tank. 
I'm looking forward to culling the snail herd too. :evil:


----------



## dave b (Mar 4, 2007)

Heather said:


> okay, so the drastic switch from dirty to clean water won't upset them, Jon?
> I'm not doing it for a week or two....



The main concern would be if you moved them into water that had a much different Ph, or temperature, in addition to Jon's mention of chlorine. Differences of those can easily shock fish into death. If you are not currently altering you tank waters Ph, you probably dont have to worry about that. For my smaller tanks, ive used 5 gallon buckets to pre prep water a day or 2 in advance if needed.


----------



## Jon in SW Ohio (Mar 4, 2007)

Dirty to clean shouldn't bother them. The other good thing about "overnighting" water is that the temps should be the same too so that doesn't shock the fish...unless you are using a heater. If you are, there are a few ways to acclimate them. The easiest is to turn off the heater and let the tank cool off to room temperature like the bucket of water will be.

I personally would put them in a holding tank/bucket/whatever and clean out the old tank completely if you want to be rid of the snails. They should be fine in the bucket for a day or two, guppies are surprisingly resilient usually.

Jon


----------



## Heather (Mar 4, 2007)

Guppies!?!?! These are the original strain of Endlers! Give them some credit, dude....:rollhappy:

Okay, point taken. With only 8 maybe I will try to capture them and clean the tank WELL. That would not be a bad thing for sure. Damn snails. 

They sure do keep the algae down tho! And my plants are rocking the Casbah, as Blake would say.


----------



## dave b (Mar 4, 2007)

Heather said:


> Guppies!?!?! These are the original strain of Endlers! Give them some credit, dude....:rollhappy:
> 
> Okay, point taken. With only 8 maybe I will try to capture them and clean the tank WELL. That would not be a bad thing for sure. Damn snails.
> 
> They sure do keep the algae down tho! And my plants are rocking the Casbah, as Blake would say.



Endler's are what guppies aspire to someday be.

Those snails are a pain.


----------



## Heather (Mar 4, 2007)

dave b said:


> Endler's are what guppies aspire to someday be.




That's RIGHT! GO Endler's!!!!


----------



## gonewild (Mar 4, 2007)

Do you want to take the opportunity to completely get rid of the snails?


----------



## Heather (Mar 4, 2007)

I wouldn't mind....


----------



## gonewild (Mar 4, 2007)

Heather said:


> I wouldn't mind....



Do you need to keep the gravel or can you replace it?
Are your plants replaceable or are they dear to you?


----------



## Heather (Mar 5, 2007)

I can replace the gravel but the plants are really thriving so I'd like to keep them if possible.


----------



## Ray (Mar 5, 2007)

Sounds to me like you need to remove the fish from the tank and give it a good scouring!

I moved 4 large tanks of fish from Kentucky to South Carolina once, taking three days to get there.

I put plastic bags in styrofoam coolers, transferred the tank water and fish, pumped up the bags with oxygen instead of just air, tied up the bags, and taped the tops on.

Didn't lose a single fish.


----------



## NYEric (Mar 5, 2007)

Hi, my recommedation would be to take the fish out right before you move. Carry them in a plastic bag [w/ a little stress coat] from the pet store. Clean out the tank removing excess snails (80% water change), move it and fill to remainder w/ the new water supply. Let this new mix sit for a day while the existing bacteria act on the new water. Add fish back.


----------



## Park Bear (Mar 5, 2007)

It is almost impossible to get rid of snails, unless you add some copper or a botia (snail eating fish). Snails have their place in the aquarium; they eat all of the food missed by the fish. The mulm on the bottom left from their waste is a great place to harbor good bacteria. The snails always find there way back usually, plants, gravel, digestive tract of the fish, etc 

If you keep some of your old water from the tank and add it within a day, then you can add in fresh water as long and the ph and temperature is not too different from what the fish are use to. Endlers can be fussy at times, so I usually add new water by dripping is in with a siphon with a valve to reduce flow or just double the water each time you add fresh water. For example, you start with 1 gallon old water and add 1 gallon fresh, next hour you add 2 gallons and so on. When I acclimate my fish it takes me over 24 hours, just because I am paranoid.


----------



## likespaphs (Mar 5, 2007)

i was gonna suggest getting a clown loach. you wouldn't have any snails left after that.... the water quality might be an issue for them, though...


----------



## gonewild (Mar 5, 2007)

If you want to treat your fish with the most care remove them from the dirty aquarium before you disturb the gravel. There is all kinds of stuff in the gravel that could possibly harm the fish when it is suddenly mixed into the water. (bacteria, toxic gases).

In reality you could just put the fish into a bucket with an inch or two of your aquarium water and they would live just fine as long as they did not get cold. But that would not be very respectful now would it?  

You only have a few small fish so it won't be hard to put them into a small container for a while. Here is a basic process we use to acclimate wild caught fish for aquarium life.
For you few fish....

Prepare one quart of room temperature water that is chlorine free and put it into a non clear plastic container so that it is about 1/2 inch deep. Add one quart of water from the aquarium where the fish are now to make the water level about 1 inch deep. Make sure the aquarium water you add has no food particles or debris in it. This should bring the temperature and pH fairly close to what the fish are in now. Add a big pinch of salt. Put the fish from the aquarium into the container and cover it so the fish are in the dark. Set the container aside so the fish can rest undisturbed. The next day change the water the fish are in but this time don't mix it with aquarium water but still add a pinch of salt. Let them set another day in quiet. DO NOT feed the fish during this process. The next day change it again and don't add salt. They are now ready for their new tank and they should be snail free. The fish could live in this quarantine for well over a month as long as it is quiet, dark and you do not feed them.

Once you have done the above process the fish will have acclimated to new water and completely purged their systems of all food and snail eggs they may have eaten. You could now put them into a quart sized plastic bag with 1/3 water and 2/3 oxygen and they will live for at least 72 hours. If you put each fish in a small bag by themselves they would probably live a few weeks.

To get rid of the snails replace your gravel with new snail free material. Sterilize the tank and all objects you will reuse. Bleach works well for this.

To eradicate the snails from your plants is more difficult. While you have them out of the aquarium is a good time to treat the plants with a chemical to kill the snails. It takes some effort and time but it should be worth it. Put the plants in a container (not the aquarium). Check to see what nasty chemical the local fish store sells to kill snails but won't kill plants. Treat the plants in a container with a strong dose, no worry about the fish because they are not with the plants. Copper compounds like Malachite green should kill the snails, but make sure your plant species aren't sensitive to copper.
Potassium permanganate or formalin might work to kill the snail eggs.
It would be a good idea to keep the container of plants under your lights.

Once you are in your new house just put the aquarium back together and hope you killed all the snails.


----------



## NYEric (Mar 5, 2007)

Sounds a little severe.


----------



## gonewild (Mar 5, 2007)

NYEric said:


> Sounds a little severe.



It is a lot of work but it is not severe. The acclimation process greatly reduces mortality rates. But what the heck they are just guppies. 

Like I said Heather could just put the fish in a bucket if she did not want to go to the effort.

If you are going to transport or keep fish in a small amount of water for an extended time the 3 day process will almost guarantee their survival.

I don't think it is right to treat fish kept as pets with any less respect than other animals.


----------



## Heather (Mar 5, 2007)

Thanks! 
I've decided (based on my 2 hour commute during rush hour this morning) that I need to have the fish, plants, and cat moved to MA by the time I start my new job 3/12. Which means, I'll be handling all this over the weekend. 

I bought new gravel today.  

I will also say that I haven't had to clean the tank due to algae because of the snails, so I don't mind the few that I might not be able to get off the plants sticking around but the other 400 million of them are destined for their demise. 

I agree with Lance, I love my wee fishies, and my cat loves watching them swim around. It was a little simpler when they lived in the rainbarrel though! 

Any tips for netting them? I seem to have a hard time catching them and I have one brand new little fry I don't want to lose (literally) in this process.


----------



## Ron-NY (Mar 5, 2007)

When I wanted to net my fish, I used to drain off part of the water first and remove the plants...then I would net the fish.


----------



## dave b (Mar 5, 2007)

_To eradicate the snails from your plants is more difficult. While you have them out of the aquarium is a good time to treat the plants with a chemical to kill the snails. It takes some effort and time but it should be worth it. Put the plants in a container (not the aquarium). *Check to see what nasty chemical the local fish store sells to kill snails but won't kill plants.* Treat the plants in a container with a strong dose, no worry about the fish because they are not with the plants. Copper compounds like Malachite green should kill the snails, but make sure your plant species aren't sensitive to copper.
Potassium permanganate or formalin might work to kill the snail eggs._

Good advice above. 
Be advised.
Many of the snail killers sold in pet stores around here are not safe for plants, and usually say it in the fine print. One product that was popular, was Snail-Be-Gone. But, not safe for plants. i do not know what the chemical base was.


----------



## adiaphane (Mar 5, 2007)

Heather, where are you going?


----------



## Heather (Mar 5, 2007)

Hi Tien, 

I 'm just going back to my mom's for now. Got a new job working for New England Wildflower Society. They grow Cyps. There's even a Cyp. on the letterhead.  Could you ask for much more out of a job? lol. 

I'm pretty excited to work for them. In case you couldn't tell.


----------



## Eric Muehlbauer (Mar 5, 2007)

I say smush the excess snails and turn them into live food for the fish...that's what I always did as a kid. Take care, Eric


----------



## Heather (Mar 5, 2007)

Another dumb question. 

Can I buy six gallons of spring water? 
The only empty bottle I have right now has had plant fertilizer in it.


----------



## gonewild (Mar 5, 2007)

Heather said:


> Another dumb question.
> 
> Can I buy six gallons of spring water?
> The only empty bottle I have right now has had plant fertilizer in it.



Sure, just make sure it is free of chlorine. Also be sure to aerate it before putting the fish in as it may be low of oxygen in the bottles. Also the small amount of fertilizer drops in your bottles won't hurt the fish. It is just a little salt.


----------



## NYEric (Mar 6, 2007)

Heather said:


> Another dumb question.
> 
> Can I buy six gallons of spring water?
> The only empty bottle I have right now has had plant fertilizer in it.


HaHaHa! I used to pass by the yard of a major 'spring' water company and watch them fill the bottles w a common hose to the City water supply!! Use tap water if the supply isn't gruesome. If it tastes good it's probably OK.


----------



## Park Bear (Mar 6, 2007)

The process Lance describes is pretty much what I do when out on a collecting trip.

The off the counter snail killers are also hard on catfishes, but the Endlers should be fine. As I mentioned before I don't mind snails, with all of my tanks I'd never be able to get all of them.


----------



## Heather (Mar 6, 2007)

NYEric said:


> HaHaHa! I used to pass by the yard of a major 'spring' water company and watch them fill the bottles w a common hose to the City water supply!! Use tap water if the supply isn't gruesome. If it tastes good it's probably OK.



Don't laugh at me! 
There is a fair amount of chlorine in my water and as I mentioned I don't have any empty water jugs to fill, and let sit to off-gas. So, I have to buy water anyway. Geesh!


----------



## dave b (Mar 6, 2007)

Heather said:


> Any tips for netting them? I seem to have a hard time catching them and I have one brand new little fry I don't want to lose (literally) in this process.



Using 2 nets instead of one is the key. I worked at a aquarium shop for years back in the day, and it was mandatory that we do so. You spend less time chasing them around, and stresses them less in the process. With 2 nets, you can gently scoot the fish in between the 2, and easily scoop them. Especially if you have them up against the glass. There is no where for them to go. Sometimes they just swim right in. Ive watched people spend several minutes chasing a little fish around, when they could have done it in 10 seconds with a second net. 

This may sound crazy, but i couldnt even begin to tell you how many tropical fish ive seen die from stress/heart attacks after being chased around, caught up in a net, poured in a bag, then waiting to be paid for. Suddenly there is a floater in the bag.


----------



## Heather (Mar 7, 2007)

Thank you Dave! Great tip, and one I will try!


----------



## NYEric (Mar 7, 2007)

Heather said:


> Don't laugh at me!
> There is a fair amount of chlorine in my water and as I mentioned I don't have any empty water jugs to fill, and let sit to off-gas. So, I have to buy water anyway. Geesh!


I was 'laughing' at the idea of the benefits of "Spring Water". Buy Distilled water instead. It's probably cheaper at the supermarket too. BTW, do you have an R.O. filter?


----------



## Heather (Mar 7, 2007)

Nope, no RO filter, unfortunately.


----------



## Heather (Mar 14, 2007)

I'm happy to let you all know that the fish seem to have been moved into their new (clean!) home without any issues. 

Yay Fish!


----------



## NYEric (Mar 16, 2007)

Heather said:


> Nope, no RO filter, unfortunately.


OK everyone, now you know what someone needs for X-mas. oke:


----------

