# paphiopedilum zickianum semialba ?



## Hakone (Jul 14, 2011)

I got this photo from friend . Is that paphiopedilum zickianum semialba . Please ID


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## Shiva (Jul 14, 2011)

There is no such name. The real name is Paph. papuanum.


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## paphioboy (Jul 14, 2011)

How interesting that the lighter-coloured form has much larger flowers than the darker one... Nice, both of them..


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## SlipperKing (Jul 14, 2011)

Nice! I got to meet your friend!!


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## SlipperFan (Jul 14, 2011)

I like the one on the left!


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## Rick (Jul 14, 2011)

paphioboy said:


> How interesting that the lighter-coloured form has much larger flowers than the darker one... Nice, both of them..



Truly bigger or just closer to the camera?

I'd like to the the dark one with good light on it?


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## labskaus (Jul 15, 2011)

Very nice flowers, both of them. Your friend is very generous with the names he uses on his plants.
I couldn't tell if the left plant is papuanum or wentworthianum since I haven't seen any of those with my own eyes. The flower to the left looks different, esp. the staminode.
It causes me pain when the term semi-alba is applied to Paphs. Semi-alba is a nice way to describe those Cattleyas with a pure white flower and a coloured lip. With Paphs, I'm only aware of delenatii (possibly) being semi-alba. The term used for a flower from the Barbata section is complete BS, sorry. Makes me angry.


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## Roth (Jul 15, 2011)

The correct term in horticulture would be 'aureum', like sukhakhulii aureum. Though it would be interesting to see the leaves. I have seen one other plant like that, and there were several more supposedly, so it could be a new variation...


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## Braem (Jul 15, 2011)

Hakone said:


> I got this photo from friend . Is that paphiopedilum zickianum semialba . Please ID


First of all ... the correct name for thus plant is P. papuanum and if you want to use the synonym, it is P. zieckianum.
Furthermore, the plant shown is by no means a semi-album.


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## NYEric (Jul 15, 2011)

Both are interesting. thanks for posting. Whew! I thought I had this addiction bad!


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## dodidoki (Jul 15, 2011)

Braem said:


> First of all ... the correct name for thus plant is P. papuanum and if you want to use the synonym, it is P. zieckianum.
> Furthermore, the plant shown is by no means a semi-album.



I don't think so. I think it would be better to forget this name "papuanum", because it causes many confusions. You have right, papuanum is really zieckianum, but many times use this name for violascens.

I agree with that, this plant correct name is "aureum" not semialba. I think so, that it is worth to selfing this plant for trying to propagate, because it is extremely rare plant. I know, almost impossible but if I remember Fox Valley had some success for arteficial propagating about this specie.


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## Braem (Jul 15, 2011)

dodidoki said:


> I don't think so. I think it would be better to forget this name "papuanum", because it causes many confusions. You have right, papuanum is really zieckianum, but many times use this name for violascens.
> 
> I agree with that, this plant correct name is "aureum" not semialba. I think so, that it is worth to selfing this plant for trying to propagate, because it is extremely rare plant. I know, almost impossible but if I remember Fox Valley had some success for arteficial propagating about this specie.


You can think as you like. The correct name is P. papuanum, whether you like it or not. Maybe it would be good to read some literature by Cribb or by me.

The correct name of the plant you showed is NOT "aureum" .... where is the golden-yellow color? I am sure that Tom at Fox Valley selfed a better specimen of papuanum than the ones shown here (if he selfed one).


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## Hakone (Jul 15, 2011)

My friend said:


papuanum - Discovery : Irian Jaya (indonesicher part of New Guinea)
violascens - Discovery : Island Kar Kar
zieckianum - Discovery : Mt. Carstenz ( Irian Java )


is that correct?


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## dodidoki (Jul 15, 2011)

The reason I mentioned that it would be better to use name "zieckianum" is the confusion caused by using of "papuanum". You can find many descriptions where author used "papuanum" and illustration showed tipical violascens. If you want I can link some....

Otherwise a rare colour form can be worse than typical , but despite of this fact, this colour form is rare.

This plant is in picture seems to be yellowish green on my computer.


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## dodidoki (Jul 15, 2011)

Here is one:
http://www.orchidsminiature.com/viewproduct.php?proid=285


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## valenzino (Jul 15, 2011)

Many violascens have been sold by indonesians as papuanum,but that dont change the taxonomic status of the plant...violascens is easy to recognize and no confusion with the others...the only discussion that can be made about violascens,is about the difference with bouganvillieanum...that can be considered a variety of it by some...
P.papuanum is the name for this plants,and zieckianum is a synonim or a darker forma/variety....
Also probably not enough material to study it well...also because are difficult plants to grow and 99% of plants die in cultivation...


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## Braem (Jul 15, 2011)

Hakone said:


> My friend said:
> 
> 
> papuanum - Discovery : Irian Jaya (indonesicher part of New Guinea)
> ...


Look it up .... why should I or someone else do the reading for you?


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## Braem (Jul 15, 2011)

dodidoki said:


> The reason I mentioned that it would be better to use name "zieckianum" is the confusion caused by using of "papuanum". You can find many descriptions where author used "papuanum" and illustration showed tipical violascens. If you want I can link some....
> 
> Otherwise a rare colour form can be worse than typical , but despite of this fact, this colour form is rare.
> 
> This plant is in picture seems to be yellowish green on my computer.


That argument is irrational. Just because you call a Volkswagen a Mercedes for twenty years, the car still is a Volkswagen.


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## Braem (Jul 15, 2011)

valenzino said:


> Many violascens have been sold by indonesians as papuanum,but that dont change the taxonomic status of the plant...violascens is easy to recognize and no confusion with the others...the only discussion that can be made about violascens,is about the difference with bouganvillieanum...that can be considered a variety of it by some...
> P.papuanum is the name for this plants,and zieckianum is a synonim or a darker forma/variety....
> Also probably not enough material to study it well...also because are difficult plants to grow and 99% of plants die in cultivation...


Right!, with one little change ... In Schoser's description of the plant as P. zieckianaum, there is no mention of any lighter or darker forms of the plant. 
Anyone who knew Schoser personally, knows that he certainly was not the expert on orchids for which he passed.


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## Berthold (Jul 15, 2011)

Hakone said:


> I got this photo from friend . Is that paphiopedilum zickianum semialba . Please ID



Are these Your plants?


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jul 16, 2011)

During the late 80's, before CITES, "papuanum" was available...I got mine from Richard Topper. All bloomed out to be violascens, including mine. I contacted Topper about it, and he said he would try to get me the real papuanum. i never heard from him again.


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## Hakone (Jul 16, 2011)

more photos













paph. violascens








enjoy


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## Pete (Jul 16, 2011)

i havent read all the posts in this thread but just wanted to say a) nice flowers and b) MY GOD IM SICK OF THE OVERUSE/MISUSE of the term semi-alba. people that term is reserved for an otherwise WHITE flower with a colored lip. that is all.


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## Pete (Jul 16, 2011)

also, im with braem here, that, to me, is papuanum.
furthermore, from what i know from people that are actually from PNG, the term Irian Jaya is both outdated and derogatory. at least to people of new guinea.


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## Berthold (Jul 16, 2011)

Hakone said:


> more photos
> enjoy



Your friend makes nice pictures of Your plants. Plants look healthy.


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## Paphman910 (Jul 16, 2011)

Nice photos! How about picture of the foliage closeup? Any secret to how to grow this species well?

Paphman910


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## Braem (Jul 16, 2011)

Pete said:


> i havent read all the posts in this thread but just wanted to say a) nice flowers and b) MY GOD IM SICK OF THE OVERUSE/MISUSE of the term semi-alba. people that term is reserved for an otherwise WHITE flower with a colored lip. that is all.


I fully agree with the overuse of "semi-alba" .. I have been preaching this problem for decades, but apparently very few read literature


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## Braem (Jul 16, 2011)

Pete said:


> also, im with braem here, that, to me, is papuanum.
> furthermore, from what i know from people that are actually from PNG, the term Irian Jaya is both outdated and derogatory. at least to people of new guinea.


It is papuanum and it does't matter where a plant is found ... you can describe a Paph. lahnauense validly and effectively if you wish, and there are no Paph. species growing in the wilds in Lahnau. But obviously the person who started this thread has no idea about taxonomy ans systematics and obviously does not want to read anything either.


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## Ozpaph (Jul 16, 2011)

Pete said:


> furthermore, from what i know from people that are actually from PNG, the term Irian Jaya is both outdated and derogatory. at least to people of new guinea.



What is the Indonesian part of New Guinea called then?


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## Pete (Jul 17, 2011)

all i remember is my friends from over there told me the very first time i used that term irian jaya that i shouldnt use it and it was borderline derogatory. i believe that they just call it Papua. or the province of papua. with that little upper peninsula being referred to as western papua. Then east of pretty much the middle is papua new guinea.


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## valenzino (Jul 17, 2011)

Berthold said:


> Your friend makes nice pictures of Your plants. Plants look healthy.



Not his plants(and not mine)...get informed before write...and many time is irritating to read always provocatory posts from same peoples...


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## s1214215 (Jul 17, 2011)

Pete, while you may be right as to how the Papuans feel, Irian Jaya still holds for a map/state based definition, regardless of how we feel about the injustices of the Indonesian government/army there. 

Brett


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## s1214215 (Jul 17, 2011)

I love the plant by the way.. I just got a flask as zeickianum too

Brett


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## quietaustralian (Jul 18, 2011)

s1214215 said:


> Pete, while you may be right as to how the Papuans feel, Irian Jaya still holds for a map/state based definition, regardless of how we feel about the injustices of the Indonesian government/army there.
> 
> Brett



Many years ago I visited what at the time was known as Irian Jaya but I believe the Indonesian government changed the name of the two provinces too Papua and West Papua about ten years ago. The UN, cartographers etc now use these names.

Mick


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## Ozpaph (Jul 18, 2011)

Thanks for the geography update. Learnt another thing today!


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