# Mold in flask



## papheteer (May 21, 2017)

One of my flasks has some type of white fuzzy mold in it. Just a small part. I did what John M suggested and opened the flask to acclimate the seedlings to the open environment (I noticed the mold before opening the flask). Is this type of mold fatal to seedlings? Should I treat the seedlings when I deflask? It's been about 3 days since I noticed the mold. I plan to deflask tomorrow. Thanks


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## John M (May 21, 2017)

Honestly, I wouldn't spend even one second worrying about it. The problem with mould in flasks is usually just that the mould grows so much faster, it uses up nutrients and it overwhelms the tiny seeds/protocorms/seedlings. The issue is not that the mould if poisonous. Often, if a flask with large seedlings begins growing mould, they can be left in the flask for quite awhile and allowed to grow up more, as long as the mould is not a species that can overtake them.

If I was deflasking, I'd just do what I normally do. That is: I like to deflask with the entire disk of agar and roots left intact. I pot the agar "puck" into a depression in a pot of medium and then carefully fit some fine medium inbetween the seedlings....placing the mix right on top of the agar disk. If the agar has mould on it, it simply washes away as the agar slowly decomposes and melts away little by little with each watering.

If it'd make you feel better, then go ahead and wash away the portion of agar that has the mould growing on it. If you want to treat the seedlings, be careful that the cure is not more harmfull than the thing your trying to fix. Don't use harsh chemicals, or strong doses. You'll just stress and burn the delicate seedlings. Good luck.


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## papheteer (May 21, 2017)

Thanks for the tips, John! I feel relieved. The flask is open now as you suggested, for 3 days now. The agar still looks wet. How long do you think I can still keep them in there before deflasking?


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## John M (May 21, 2017)

3 days is enough. The gentle air exchange will have begun to aclimate the foliage to the outside air. I'd deflask tomorrow.

Here's how I do it. The following are photos of the seedlings from two Cattleya flasks and one Phrag flask. They have been removed from their flask with the agar intact and roots undisturbed. They were potted like this. I did not remove any agar. In fact, one of the clumps lost a large lump of agar, which I put back before I com-potted the whole lump of seedlings together.

Photo #1
Three bunches of seedlings immediately after removing them from their glass flask. The agar "puck" is left intact.

Photo #2
All potted up. Those are 6" clear plastic pots. Notice the ample amount of styrofoam peanuts in the bottom for drainage. The mix is 1/2 filtered perlite and 1/2 small size CHC.

Photo #3 and #4
If you leave the seedlings fully exposed to the air and the air movement, they will likely go soft and wilt and suffer great stress. The pot on the right would suffer greatly. However, I have cut the bottom out of a Margarine tub and taped it over the pot to create a "cone" that will contain a microclimate of less air movement and much slower air exchange. It also reduces and filters/softens the light. Unless the sun is directly overhead, which it is not, the light reaching way down inside to the seedlings is reflected in through the top and filtered as it passes in through the white, plastic sides. However, the open top still allows for heat to escape and excess humidity to escape. It also allows for easy inspection and proper watering. This more gentle, less extreme microclimate is a very good "nursery" which allows seedlings to aclimate at their own pace without losing ground and being stressed. The seedlings in the photo were planted out on April 13. Now, it's May 20th and they have never shown any signs of stress, they've never gone soft, never wilted, never lost a single leaf, never developed brown edges and not even one seedling has been lost. After 5 weeks post deflasking, they're all strong, turgin, healthy and thriving seedlings. In another month, I'll remove the "cone" tops and they'll begin to take off with new growth.

As I said, the cones will be removed after a couple months. However, the seedlings will be left to grow and put on some size, for about 8 or 12 months. By the time the compots are unpotted and the seedlings given their own, individual pots, the agar will have long since disolved away and disappeared.


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## Ozpaph (May 21, 2017)

I would remove them now.


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## NYEric (May 21, 2017)

Good info, yes open them and deflask. Good luck.


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## PaphLover (May 21, 2017)

John M said:


> as long as the mould is not a species that can overtake them.



What is a kind that can overtake them? And how do you recognize it as such?


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## John M (May 21, 2017)

PaphLover said:


> What is a kind that can overtake them? And how do you recognize it as such?



"Overtaking" refers to the mould being so vigorous that it burries the tiny seedlings. Plus, being so vigorous, the mould can use up all the nutrients and starve the seedlings. If you have a little mould that grows slowly and stays low, against the surface of the agar, most seedlings will continue to grow an get larger, even while sharing their space with the mould. However, some moulds can be so vigorous that they physically smother the tiny seedling and starve them by removing all the available nutrients from the agar medium.


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## Stone (May 22, 2017)

I have a flask of gratrixianum which has been opened for nearly 2 months without mould. I fill the flask with fert solution and let it soak for about 2 minutes then empty.
If you do get mould developing and you don't want to de-flask, you can quickly destroy ( 1 day) the mould with beneficial bacteria. It usually does not re-develop after that.


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## Ozpaph (May 22, 2017)

Stone said:


> I have a flask of gratrixianum which has been opened for nearly 2 months without mould. I fill the flask with fert solution and let it soak for about 2 minutes then empty.
> If you do get mould developing and you don't want to de-flask, you can quickly destroy ( 1 day) the mould with beneficial bacteria. It usually does not re-develop after that.



what bacteria?


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## Stone (May 22, 2017)

Ozpaph said:


> what bacteria?



I used juice from well matured compost/vermi compost. You must use old compost that has remained moist for at least 12 months to ensure little or no ammonium.
The mould was completely gone the next day without a trace! I diluted at about I part compost to 100 part water (a guess) Strained through a rag. I think the bacteria set up shop on the agar and eat all competition.


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## Ozpaph (May 22, 2017)

I wonder if 'Go-go' juice would do the same thing? I use it on my plants intermittently.
http://www.neutrog.com.au/gogo-juice/


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## John M (May 22, 2017)

Stone said:


> I have a flask of gratrixianum which has been opened for nearly 2 months without mould. I fill the flask with fert solution and let it soak for about 2 minutes then empty.
> If you do get mould developing and you don't want to de-flask, you can quickly destroy ( 1 day) the mould with beneficial bacteria. It usually does not re-develop after that.



Hmmm? Very interesting! I have tried numerous times to leave seedlings in an open flask for longer than a few days; but, then the agar begins to dry out. So, I've added a bit of water and then poured off the excess. However, in my experience, whether it was a Cattleya, Phrag. or Disa, the seedlings always rotted. In every case, a devastating bacterial soft rot ran through the whole population like a freight train. However, I was not using beneficial bacteria tea. Not sure how that prevents soft bacterial rot; but, I might try again with a flask I don't mind losing if all goes wrong again.


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## Stone (May 22, 2017)

Ozpaph said:


> I wonder if 'Go-go' juice would do the same thing? I use it on my plants intermittently.
> http://www.neutrog.com.au/gogo-juice/



Probably not. I would hazard a guess that the bacterial population would be mainly anaerobic in the solution and probably a very narrow rage of species.
Where as in the ''live'' compost there would be many thousands of species of bacteria and fungi. Experimenting is the way to find out!


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## Stone (May 22, 2017)

John M said:


> Hmmm? Very interesting! I have tried numerous times to leave seedlings in an open flask for longer than a few days; but, then the agar begins to dry out. So, I've added a bit of water and then poured off the excess. However, in my experience, whether it was a Cattleya, Phrag. or Disa, the seedlings always rotted. In every case, a devastating bacterial soft rot ran through the whole population like a freight train. However, I was not using beneficial bacteria tea. Not sure how that prevents soft bacterial rot; but, I might try again with a flask I don't mind losing if all goes wrong again.



Well maybe it's just luck so far John but out of the last 30 flasks I have not lost one seedling to rot. For example, 5 years ago I got a flask of Paph sulivongii and lost every one over a couple of months. I bought another one last august and they are all booming after the treatment. Same for all the paphs as well as Psycopsis papilio, Dendrobium belatulum and others. I have lost a very small amount in the community pots due to general weakness, runts etc.
You have to find a good source of compost. The commercial liquids are no good. If you have a local worm farm, that would be a good place to start or start your own. You could probably treat 100 flasks with one handful of vermicompost!


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## John M (May 23, 2017)

Thanks very much, David. Actually, there's a worm farm just a few kms from my home. I'm a little confused about the definition of "vermicompost". Is that just another word for "worm castings"?


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## Stone (May 23, 2017)

John M said:


> Thanks very much, David. Actually, there's a worm farm just a few kms from my home. I'm a little confused about the definition of "vermicompost". Is that just another word for "worm castings"?



Yes.....and it's Mike.


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## John M (May 23, 2017)

Stone said:


> Yes.....and it's Mike.



Are you sure? I think your name should be David. I'll call you David.oke:

*LOL!* Ooops, must be past my bedtime!:snore: {John wanders off, muttering to himself} :crazy: Good night!


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## papheteer (May 23, 2017)

Lots of great info here! Thanks guys!

I just deflasked yesterday. Mold did increase. Mostly lightcolored and fluffy. I washed it a bit and potted in small fir bark and perlite. I put it inside my mini greenhouse along with other small plants. I hope the mold doesn't spread to other plants!


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## papheteer (May 23, 2017)

John M said:


> Thanks very much, David. Actually, there's a worm farm just a few kms from my home. I'm a little confused about the definition of "vermicompost". Is that just another word for "worm castings"?



I wondered about as well. I saw the website. They're selling 50LBS of castings for 5$!


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## Ozpaph (May 23, 2017)

50lbs!!!!


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## PaphLover (May 28, 2017)

Yes, very interesting information. Thanks for responding!


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