# Diploid versus Triploid Phrag. Barbara LeAnn



## Drorchid (Sep 6, 2006)

I remade Phrag. Barbara LeAnn (besseae x fischeri) using our tetraploid Phrag. besseae 'Rob's Choice' AM/AOS. The result are triploids (as the fischeri parent is a diploid). Below are pictures so you can compare the diploid (made with a 2N besseae) versus the triploid. Keep in mind that the triploid was a first bloom seedling on a small plant, so probably next year the flowers will be bigger, but you can clearly see a difference in color between the two. The triploids tend to be much darker in color (almost a lipstick red), and rounder in shape.

The diploid form:







The triplioid form: 






diploid versus triploid:






Robert


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## slippertalker (Sep 6, 2006)

It's interesting how the tetraploid parent overwhelms the diploid parent both in shape and color. It would be interesting to see a tetraploid Barbara LeAnn, and how the confirmation of the flower and color would be influenced.
The triploid is a lovely flower.....


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## Roth (Sep 6, 2006)

slippertalker said:


> It's interesting how the tetraploid parent overwhelms the diploid parent both in shape and color. It would be interesting to see a tetraploid Barbara LeAnn, and how the confirmation of the flower and color would be influenced.
> The triploid is a lovely flower.....



Everyone must remember that triploids are sterile, therefore they have much, much less financial value, even awarded. This is the problems of all the triploids.


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## Shadow (Sep 6, 2006)

Sanderianum said:


> Everyone must remember that triploids are sterile,


How can they be sterile, if they can be parents?


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## Heather (Sep 6, 2006)

Very interesting comparison. 
Have either of these had their colors enhanced or are these pretty true to life?


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## Drorchid (Sep 6, 2006)

Those bright red colors are hard to capture on a photo, but I would say they are pretty true to the real colors.

In regard to triploids being sterile; I would say yes, for the most part that is correct, but once in a while you will find a triploid plant that will breed; especially when crossed to tetraploid parents.

In regard to triploids not being valuable, we have had triploid plants that have been awarded (one of our flavum Phrag. Saint Ouens); so even if they are triploid, they can still be valuable (just for thier beauty as a plant, or as a clone). Triploids sometimes combine the valuable characteristics of a diploid and a tetraploid: they can be more vigorous than a tetraploid, and have larger and more brighter colored flowers than a diploid.

Just to show you that some triploids are fertile; I crossed a triploid Hanne Popow (again made with a 4N besseae) to Phrag. Sedenii. I got a bunch of seedlings to germinate from this cross. The interesting thing was that there was a lot of variation in this cross. This is probably because most of them are aneuploids (they all have different number of chromosomes, and are either lacking some, or have some to many)......now these will probably be all sterile.....

Phrag Hanne Popow (3N):






Phrag. Randy McDonald (Hanne Popow (3N) x Sedenii) seedling #1






Phrag. Randy McDonald seedling #2






Phrag. Randy McDonald seedling #3







Robert


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## slippertalker (Sep 6, 2006)

I agree that triploids are usually nice flowers even though they cannot be bred further. There is nothing wrong with enjoying the flower for what it is, rather than what it will breed to the next generation. There are many nice phrags these days that are triploids, things like Don Wimber and Jason Fischer, and are marvelous flowers.


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## Heather (Sep 6, 2006)

That variation in Randy McDonald is wild! I love the third one.


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## SlipperFan (Sep 6, 2006)

They are all pretty nice. I like the pink flush on the petals and dorsal.


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## Jon in SW Ohio (Sep 6, 2006)

I never really cared for Barbara LeAnn, but I would definitely love to have that triploid one. Excellent photos, very cool to see the comparisons.

Jon
________
Paolo martinelli


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## charlie c (Sep 7, 2006)

Robert,

Curious as to the genetics going on here. This may be dumb question, but are results of this cross skewed towards the besseae parent because it contributes 2/3 of the genetic material? And if it were made with a 4N fischeri and a 2N besseae. would the results tip towards the fischeri? 

charlie c


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## Drorchid (Sep 8, 2006)

Yes, you are right. In this case we have a double dose of besseae genes, so the result looks a lot like Phrag. Waunakee Sunset (= Barbara LeAnn x besseae). Actually in this case it is 1/3 fischeri genes and 2/3 besseae genes, as in Phrag. Waunakee Sunset it is 1/4 fischeri genes, and 3/4 besseae genes.

If we would have made the cross with a 2N besseae and a 4N fischeri; the resulting hybrid would look very different, and favor the fischeri parent more; it would probably be more pink in color. Now if we would have used 2 tetraploid parents, the resulting hybrid would have looked more like a regular Phrag. Barbara LeAnn, but probably with larger flowers , that would have thicker petals, and perhaps a little darker (more intense) in color.

Robert


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## NYEric (Sep 14, 2006)

*new,*

Heck, I'd be happy as a clam with any of those flowers. E.


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## Gideon (Sep 15, 2006)

Stunning remake :clap: :clap: :clap:


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