# Off Topic - Wile-E Coyote



## Heather (Sep 6, 2008)

So, I live in a fairly rural suburban area, a good amount of woods in back and surrounding us. 

In the last few years we've seen a fair number of deer and have a flock (FLOCK) of wild turkeys that wakes me up every morning (ugh.)

Last year a couple of the neighbors cats disappeared and now I guess I might know why. In the last week we've had two coyote sightings. I missed the first one around 5:30 p.m. but caught yesterday's at 4:30 p.m. I ran after it (chasing a turkey) to get a good look but it disappeared into the woods.

The unfortunate thing is my cat's only time allowed outside is weekends and after I get home from work. She stays very close by but I'm thinking that she's only going to be allowed out when I am out at this point. I'm too afraid of her being snatched up, carried off, and eaten.

She's older, it's about the only exercise she gets. I'd hate to have to curtail it but I also don't want her harmed. 

Does anyone have experience with coyotes? The last two times I let her out I watched her like a hawk because I'm scared to death! 

Let me know if you have any thoughts or advice, please.


----------



## likespaphs (Sep 6, 2008)

i think that's a good thought. 
the population of coyotes has been increasing. i've seen them around providence...


----------



## biothanasis (Sep 6, 2008)

Ops!!!! Coyotes are nasty creatures like foxes, but they are great animals! The thing is that they are attracted by sth! I have no idea of what you could do, but you should avoid letting out things that could serve as food for the coyotes and lure them close to your house. Tell your neighbours to do so!! You cannot tell turkeys and deer to go away, but this is something... You could also do sth to scare them off the area, after consulting the local authorities, but avoid doing harm to the animals!

Did your neighbour have his cats spayed? If not they may have fled to search for mate! Sometimes they never come back...

First of all, do not panic! I hope everything turns out ok and you find a good solution in favour of your cat... and the coyotes!!


----------



## goldenrose (Sep 6, 2008)

OK - Heather here's the bad news & the good news. The coyotes are getting way to use to be in close proximity with humans, they do not fear/avoid humans, humans mean easy food! I know of several people that have had their small dogs snatched up by the coyotes! One dog was on a six foot leash with the owner when they tried. Another was in it's backyard with the owner & another dog present, she claims no more than eight feet away & they came out of nowhere & snatched the old dog. The third incident was the dumbest of them all - this lady lived on the edge of the forest preserve & has a fenced in yard. She regularly saw the coyotes along the fence line during various parts of the day/night. She had 4-5 shelties & felt they 'needed' to go for nature walks, she didn't keep an eye out on them all & pretty soon she's close to home & missing a dog. She does not recall an incident in which the other dogs reacted, there was never a sound uttered. She had wanted posters out, the dog was never found or sighted. So that's the bad news. What's the good news? You know how to avoid it with your cat. Freedom is a hard thing to give up but for the safety of our domestic pets an enclosure with a top might be needed for a cat to be unsupervised.


----------



## Heather (Sep 6, 2008)

I just went to the two neighbors who leave their cats out but no one was home. 

I think you are right, Rose, the best thing to do is keep her inside, or be outside with her, for very limited amounts of time. If that.


----------



## Leo Schordje (Sep 6, 2008)

Dog and Cat owners are irresponsible when they leave their pets roam free. 

Cats are the number one urban and suburban predator of song birds. An interesting survey done by Univ of Wisc showed that the average pet cat, when allowed to roam free had a hunting territory that extended out an average about 1 to 5 miles from the cat's home. Some individual cats ranged much further, a few went out as much as 25 miles for their hunting territory. Songbirds, particularly warblers, tanagers, and other shrub level nesting & roosting birds were 50% of the prey of these domestic predators. About 50% of the the cats studied in the Wisconsin paper I read preferred rodents, and 50% of the cats in the survey preferred songbirds. They did not identify any breed characteristics of cat as to which was prey preferred. According to the study the reason you never see scarlet tanagers or indigo buntings at your suburban bird feeder is due entirely to predation by house cats. Your cute loveable ***** cat is efficient killer of songbirds. The study did concluded that the increasing scarcity of a number of songbirds, in spite of the fact that the suburban environs seem to be adequate habit is due definitively to predation by cats. That low biodiversity of species at our suburban bird feeders is because cat owners just don't think, and let their little predators roam free, and think it is cute when occasionally they bring you part of the remains of their latest prey. 

So keep your cats indoors or on a leash. In addition to protecting your kitty from coyotes, keeping your domestic cat indoors or on a lead, will protect your local songbirds from that deceptively innocent looking predator you call your pet. 

That's my grumpy rave for the day. Seriously - I do like cats. I have had one in the house for a number of years a while back. But be a responsible pet owner and keep your cat either indoors, or on a leash or sufficiently under your direct control that it can't go wandering off, hunting. Think global, act local. Protect your local biodiversity by keeping your little predator under control.


----------



## biothanasis (Sep 6, 2008)

Leo Schordje said:


> Think global, act local.



That is what my teacher in Ecology calls "glocal" ...!!!!


----------



## Yoyo_Jo (Sep 6, 2008)

Heather,
There's not a single cat outdoors in our neighborhood, chiefly, I suspect, because there are coyotes about. We live at the edge of the city and they roam in from the country side. Everyone keeps their cats inside, and I suspect the ones who don't are the ones who post the odd sign around our community looking for their "lost" cat...

I had my first cat for nearly 18 years, and she lived indoors the entire time. Our current cat, who is 13, is also indoors and I don't regret keeping them indoors for a moment...

Joanne


----------



## Gilda (Sep 6, 2008)

Leo Schordje said:


> Dog and Cat owners are irresponsible when they leave their pets roam free.
> 
> Cats are the number one urban and suburban predator of song birds. An interesting survey done by Univ of Wisc showed that the average pet cat, when allowed to roam free had a hunting territory that extended out an average about 1 to 5 miles from the cat's home. Some individual cats ranged much further, a few went out as much as 25 miles for their hunting territory. Songbirds, particularly warblers, tanagers, and other shrub level nesting & roosting birds were 50% of the prey of these domestic predators. About 50% of the the cats studied in the Wisconsin paper I read preferred rodents, and 50% of the cats in the survey preferred songbirds. They did not identify any breed characteristics of cat as to which was prey preferred. According to the study the reason you never see scarlet tanagers or indigo buntings at your suburban bird feeder is due entirely to predation by house cats. Your cute loveable ***** cat is efficient killer of songbirds. The study did concluded that the increasing scarcity of a number of songbirds, in spite of the fact that the suburban environs seem to be adequate habit is due definitively to predation by cats. That low biodiversity of species at our suburban bird feeders is because cat owners just don't think, and let their little predators roam free, and think it is cute when occasionally they bring you part of the remains of their latest prey.
> 
> ...



If that is your grumpy rave for the day , then it's mine ,too !! Very well said !:clap: Thank you for standing up for our songbirds !
Coyotes *love* cats and small dogs as prey !


----------



## Wendy (Sep 6, 2008)

Wer have coyotes here as well....not so much in the city where we live but at my parent's farm they run rampant. Quite a few farm cats have fallen prey to the coyotes recently; even though my parent's have rottweilers.

I agree TOTALLY about the responsible pet owner thing. We have three cats of our own (in the city) and they are only allowed out on a harness. It is one of my pet peeves that city folks let their cats roam free. They kill birds, not to mention the mess that they can leave in the gardens etc, plus the fact that my cats...who are leashed...have been threatened by roaming neighbourhood cats. I would like to know who would pay the vet bill should a fight break out. Our one neighbour just had a $750 vet bill....her backyard cat was attacked by a cat from down the street and developed a nasty infection from the resulting bites and scratches. The owner of the guilty cat basically said....'that's your tough luck'. They won't think it's funny if I can catch and take their cat to the humane society and have to pay to get it back. I honestly think that cats should be licensed to try and weed out irresponsible owners. I LOVE cats but would really like to see more city people take responsibility for keeping their pets and others safe.

My rant for the day......


----------



## SlipperFan (Sep 6, 2008)

I am in total agreement with Leo. I love cats, dogs, birds, deer, turkeys, and just about every other animal that comes around our house (except moles). Wild animals have a right to their lives, and pet owners have a responsibility to the lives of their pets.


----------



## Heather (Sep 6, 2008)

Yeah, Okay. My cat is inside for 23 hours a day at least 5 days a week and only out when I am with her on the weekends or after I am home from work. As I said, she is only outside when I am. Still, it is nice for her to be able to experience nature, and I like to think I am still a responsible pet owner, despite that. Please don't judge if you don't know the entire situation.

I've been working this weekend to notify the people who have outdoor cats in my neighborhood about this coyote issue. This ain't no city either, as I indicated in my initial message.


----------



## Eric Muehlbauer (Sep 6, 2008)

My cats are strictly indoors...the older cat wants to go outdoors, and he is allowed out sometimes for supervised "play time"...but all we have to do is call to him and clap our hands and he runs back in. My other cat is a Maine coon...got her from a breeder, and we actually had to sign a contract that we would not allow her outdoors. She won't go out either....will run to the threshold, and look out, but won't step outside. As for coyotes....Queens is on Long Island, so we havent't gotten them....yet. Manhattan is also an island, but one was found in Central park a few years ago. I have seen them just standing by the NY state thruway. Take care, Eric


----------



## dave b (Sep 7, 2008)

With a healthy concentration of deer and turkeys, you will definitely have the coyotes. They prefer small easy prey, small deer / young turkeys, rodents etc.

We have Coyotes all over. In small patches of woods in the cities and neighborhoods. They've been on the news before. All of the nature preserves have them. My ex bought a house surrounded by woods full of them. While picking up my son last month, police / fire sirens went off in the distance and the coyotes lit up the woods with their howling. Supposedly, the previous owner of the home had a small dog of sorts and it was killed by the coyotes. 

Generally speaking, coyotes are more active at dawn/dusk and definitely at night. When you are sleeping, they are walking thru your backyard (if you have them). I see them out during the day more on cloudy/dreary days than in full sun.

They dont like human encounters. They are chicken sh... when it comes to confrontations, stay in the vicinity of kitty. Unless of course you are climbing thru a den trying to get a closer look at the cute little coyote pups...not recommended.


----------



## goldenrose (Sep 7, 2008)

I wouldn't bet on that! They're chicken ____ if they're not use to being in close proximity to humans! I have a friend, who has a friend that walks his male Golden Retriever in the forest preserve daily. He normally goes in midday, he was walking a rather open trail & about 50 ft ahead of him a coyote comes out & makes full eye contact, holding it's ground, stopping dead in it's tracks! He slowly took a few steps backwards & thought he'd go back the way he came, as he looked over his shoulder, there was one behind him! Wanna guess what was to his right & left? His dog remained calm, not reacting to their presences, it took about 15 minutes before they gave up & left.


----------



## SlipperFan (Sep 7, 2008)

Heather said:


> Please don't judge if you don't know the entire situation.


No judgement here. Just stating my opinion.


----------



## Heather (Sep 7, 2008)

I wasn't saying you were, Dot, but the insinuation by several people was that if I let my cat out at all, even supervised, I was an irresponsible pet owner. That is not the case.


----------



## goldenrose (Sep 8, 2008)

Leo Schordje said:


> Dog and Cat owners are irresponsible when they leave their pets roam free.
> 
> So keep your cats indoors or on a leash. In addition to protecting your kitty from coyotes, keeping your domestic cat indoors or on a lead, will protect your local songbirds from that deceptively innocent looking predator you call your pet. .





Wendy said:


> Wer have coyotes here as well....not so much in the city where we live but at my parent's farm they run rampant. Quite a few farm cats have fallen prey to the coyotes recently; even though my parent's have rottweilers.
> 
> I agree TOTALLY about the responsible pet owner thing. We have three cats of our own (in the city) and they are only allowed out on a harness. It is one of my pet peeves that city folks let their cats roam free. They kill birds, not to mention the mess that they can leave in the gardens etc, plus the fact that my cats...who are leashed...have been threatened by roaming neighbourhood cats. .... I LOVE cats but would really like to see more city people take responsibility for keeping their pets and others safe.
> My rant for the day......



Heather I went back & reread the posts. I'm not reading anything that is insinuating that you are anyone else is irresponsible when you allow your cat outdoors, supervised or on a leash.  We're behind you - we all want & are concerned for the safety of your pet!


----------



## NYEric (Sep 8, 2008)

We hunt in packs!


----------



## Leo Schordje (Sep 8, 2008)

Heather, I too saw that you keep your cat under supervision. You are not part of the problem. I was cranking because when I went out in the yard, there was a cat walking the bench with the orchids, knocking them over. I have terrible neighbors. I should have included that in my post right away.


----------



## Heather (Sep 8, 2008)

Cool, thanks guys. I just am very concerned myself. It's one thing to hear about something in the neighborhood, it's another to see it running after a wild turkey at 4:30 in the afternoon!


----------



## SlipperFan (Sep 8, 2008)

I should add that my rant was because this thread reminded me of when I lived in a different (city) neighborhood, and two doors down from us was a couple who let their cat roam, unsupervised. We tried to attract birds to our backyard, and that cat would lie in wait for them. I tried to work with the couple, but it became clear that they weren't interested in containing their cat, saying that it was "a cat's nature" to prey upon birds. While that may be true, it is, I believe, the cat's owner's responsibility to be keeping their cat at home and not in other people's yards.

As I said, no judgement here on you, Heather. You seem to be a responsible pet owner.


----------



## dave b (Sep 8, 2008)

goldenrose said:


> I wouldn't bet on that! They're chicken ____ if they're not use to being in close proximity to humans! I have a friend, who has a friend that walks his male Golden Retriever in the forest preserve daily. He normally goes in midday, he was walking a rather open trail & about 50 ft ahead of him a coyote comes out & makes full eye contact, holding it's ground, stopping dead in it's tracks! He slowly took a few steps backwards & thought he'd go back the way he came, as he looked over his shoulder, there was one behind him! Wanna guess what was to his right & left? His dog remained calm, not reacting to their presences, it took about 15 minutes before they gave up & left.




Good point. I should have stated 'generally'. Ive heard similar stories, though not quite as scary as that one. Every one ive encountered in the wild has run off quick, keeping a good eye on me as it fled.


----------



## Eric Muehlbauer (Sep 8, 2008)

Dot- is you neighbor's cat friendly? If so, get it to come to you...and slip a bell on a collar around its neck...while your neighbor's my get pissed and take it off, they will definitely get the message...and if they decide to leave it on, that eliminates the bird killing problem. Take care, Eric


----------



## Heather (Sep 8, 2008)

The bell is extremely useful. Mosi doesn't go out without a collar, tag, and a loud bell on, and she makes herself known even if I cannot see her immediately. I call and she moves and there she is. I think it's very important. She also has a new reflective collar (the fishes all over it are the reflective part) and it works great. It even has a fish shaped safe-clasp.  

My cat is my baby so....I'll go to any length for her. She's also almost 16 so...I'm invested, though I would be with any animal. We're actually dealing with a possible medical problem with the new puppy and I've been encouraging my mother to research it a bit more. I know she's scared of potential results but we need to know.


----------



## Jon in SW Ohio (Sep 8, 2008)

My best friends parents lost their Maltese to a wild animal and are assuming it was a coyote since we have them all over around here.

Not to be insensitive, but since Jakes passing, her parents have now "adopted" a wild bobcat that comes to their fence in the evening for after dinner scraps. I asked her how she knew it was a coyote and not a bobcat that got Jake...but that didn't go over too well.

Needless to say our little dogs don't go outside at night alone.


----------



## Gilda (Sep 9, 2008)

SlipperFan said:


> As I said, no judgement here on you, Heather. You seem to be a responsible pet owner.



My feelings too ,Heather!


----------



## Wendy (Sep 9, 2008)

Gilda said:


> My feelings too ,Heather!



Me too Heather! My problem lies with owners who let their cats roam free to cause chaos and destruction. (and then don't give a crap) I believe you are a good mommy to your girl.


----------



## NYEric (Sep 9, 2008)

Heather said:


> My cat is my baby so....I'll go to any length for her. She's also almost 16 so...I'm invested, though I would be with any animal.



You know there may be a correlation here with your difficulties with human relationships. oke:


----------



## kentuckiense (Sep 9, 2008)

NYEric said:


> You know there may be a correlation here with your difficulties with human relationships. oke:



Great post Eric, really.


----------



## tocarmar (Sep 9, 2008)

I live in the country, Up until 2 years ago 2 new neighbors in back of me, I had no neighbors for 1/2 mile in any direction. You actually couldn't see any other houses unless you drove up or down the road. The wild animals bears, coyote, fox, wolfs ??? & even cougar ( mountain lions) depending on where you are in the country are in the area. We are in there habitat so of course we are considered on their food chain. The best things to do is not leave anything outside ie. garbage, birdseed, small animals (dogs cats) should not be left out & be careful what you put in compost pile as not to attract them. Especially this time of year when they are getting fat for the winter.

Tom


----------



## SlipperFan (Sep 9, 2008)

Eric Muehlbauer said:


> Dot- is you neighbor's cat friendly? If so, get it to come to you...and slip a bell on a collar around its neck...while your neighbor's my get pissed and take it off, they will definitely get the message...and if they decide to leave it on, that eliminates the bird killing problem. Take care, Eric


I'm no longer in that neighborhood, Eric. But the neighbors did try a bell -- for about a day. Then they took it off because they said the cat didn't like it. They were basically uncooperative, and put their cat above the interests of their neighbors. The cat was friendly in the beginning. But I guess it got tired of me picking it up and taking it home.


----------



## NYEric (Sep 10, 2008)

kentuckiense said:


> Great post Eric, really.


Come on now, HUMOR!


----------



## Heather (Sep 10, 2008)

You're one to talk, Eric.


----------



## NYEric (Sep 10, 2008)

I think we're running neck and neck regarding relationship problems!


----------



## Jon in SW Ohio (Sep 11, 2008)

Amateurs...I'll take the Pepsi Challenge when it comes to relationship problems LOL


----------



## cnycharles (Sep 12, 2008)

hey, the trick to avoiding relationship problems is to avoid relationships! 
costs a lot less, too, though these orchids and trips to take pictures aren't cheap......


----------

