# Phrag. warscewiczianum



## SlipperFan (Jul 9, 2008)

That's what the tag says. But is it wallisii?


----------



## biothanasis (Jul 9, 2008)

WOW!!! This is so beautiful, whatever it is...


----------



## Kyle (Jul 9, 2008)

Looks like caudatum. Unfortunatly, not warscewiczianum.

Kyle


----------



## goldenrose (Jul 9, 2008)

Looks quite a bit like mine, flower & foliage. I'd say the color on mine was lighter, leaning toward yellowish. Mine is tagged wallisii but haven't they been reclassified to warscewiczianum? Kyle - what's the difference?


----------



## Kyle (Jul 9, 2008)

Here are pictures. I was going by color. I also don't subscribe to the recent changes: My wallisii is the same one its always been. Wars is the central american species.





















Kyle


----------



## NYEric (Jul 9, 2008)

The green and cream ones are beautiful. The light green phrags are really starting to grow on me. I'm really interested in pearcei x boisserianum.


----------



## John M (Jul 9, 2008)

Dot: I LOVE it! I LOVE it! I LOVE it!

Kyle; at first, I agreed with you 100%. However, if you consider that striking white pouch interior, it makes me wonder if this is caudatum x wallisii. What do you think of that possibility?


----------



## NYEric (Jul 9, 2008)

If caudatum isn't supposed to be grown wet how would you grow that cross?


----------



## SlipperFan (Jul 9, 2008)

Rose, mine is actually a little more yellowish-green than these photos show -- for some reason, they are not displaying quite right through photobucket. I might try again. Also, according to the article below, wallisii & warscewiczianum are synonyms, but they are calling it warscewiczianum now, not wallisii.

Eric, I use the same mix as with my other Phrags -- I just don't allow any of the caudatum group to sit in water.

Kyle, according to Braem & Ohlund, I think your first one is popowii and the second is warscewiczianum:

"The following Key may help to eliminate future confusion in respect to this group:
Key to Phragmipedium section Phragmipedium
1. Plants with normal cypripedioid flower morphology (2 lateral petals, 3rd petal transformed into a pouch ..... 2.
1a. Plants with 3 petals (no pouch) ..... P. lindenii
2. Plants with a staminode ..... 3.
2a. Plants without a staminode ..... P. exstaminodium
3. Leaves exceeding inflorescence, pouch not darkly stained at orifice, plants from South America ..... 4.
3a. Leaves not exceeding inflorescence, pouch darkly stained at orifice, plants from Mesoamerica ..... P. popowii
4. Rim of pouch flared, sepals veined, not strongly tessellated ..... P. warszewiczianum
4a. Rim of pouch not flared, sepals tessellated ..... P. caudatum" 
-- The Australian Orchid Review, December 2004/January 2005

Having re-read this article, I agree with Kyle that this is caudatum. The picture of caudatum in their article looks practically identical to mine.


----------



## Leo Schordje (Jul 9, 2008)

The Phrag in the first picture posted is Phrag caudatum. 

The 2nd and 4th image are what Sandy Ohlund & Guido Braem refer to as Phrag popowii, formerly known as warszewiczianum. Phrag popowii is the 'Central American version of caudatum. 

The 3rd and 5th photos are what Ohlund & Braem call warszewiczianum, formerly known as wallisii. The lovely Colombian version of caudatum, with the shell pink pouch. 

I am not a fan of ever changing names, but I would like to get the name straight, so that the plant I hold up today will refer back to the original description. 

Now to the culture question. 

Grow your Phrag caudatum WET. The books are misleading. ALL Phrags come from habitats that are very wet. Splash zones of water falls frequently get mentioned. Phrag caudatum comes from a habitat that is a little bit less wet than other Phrags, this is still far wetter than anything any Cattleya would tolerate. Give your caudatum more light, a more open potting mix, and more air movement than your other phrags, then you can still grow it standing in water, or give it daily waterings. Think of Phrags as semi-aquatic Vandas. Light lovers that love water too. Phrag caudatum grows as an epiphyte on trees on the cliffs just below Machu Pichu in Peru, with Masdevallia veitchii growing in the grasses below or alongside. Think daily rain, wet fog & breif periods of very hot bright sun. Temps often quite cool due to elevation. When the sun comes out, it is very bright, because you are almost 2 miles above sea level. Everything gets wet and dries out a couple times a day, then gets wet and stays wet all night long in the wet fog. 

If you are getting leaf tip die back, that is a sign you need more water. 

Hope this helps


----------



## Candace (Jul 9, 2008)

Dot, it's fabulous.


----------



## benilaca (Jul 9, 2008)

possible warszewiczianum album. petals're a bit short for the spp. you might want to self it to see if it would produce any alba. if it's an import, the chance is high that it's a wars. album [which should produce paler album & few alba] or a new sub-spp. if it's a hybrid between wars. & wallisii [petal length], color & marking will be more pronounce.
beni.


----------



## Rick (Jul 9, 2008)

Kyle said:


> Looks like caudatum. Unfortunatly, not warscewiczianum.
> 
> Kyle



It's a bit hard to tell with the angle of the pouch in the close up photo, but the pouch opening does not look flared out enough to be wallisii, and most likely is a caudatum.

Windy Hill has been selling a caudatum var sanderae (esentially an alba caudatum) that this could be a dead ringer for.


----------



## Rick (Jul 9, 2008)

goldenrose said:


> Looks quite a bit like mine, flower & foliage. I'd say the color on mine was lighter, leaning toward yellowish. Mine is tagged wallisii but haven't they been reclassified to warscewiczianum? Kyle - what's the difference?



I would call it renamed rather than reclassified.

Braem recently changed wallisii (back to) warsce, and warsce to popowii. Not everyone is eager to take up the name change, and it saves from having to call it "warscewiczianum (formerly wallisii)":sob:


----------



## Rick (Jul 9, 2008)

Leo Schordje said:


> Now to the culture question.
> 
> Grow your Phrag caudatum WET. The books are misleading. ALL Phrags come from habitats that are very wet. Splash zones of water falls frequently get mentioned. Phrag caudatum comes from a habitat that is a little bit less wet than other Phrags, this is still far wetter than anything any Cattleya would tolerate. Give your caudatum more light, a more open potting mix, and more air movement than your other phrags, then you can still grow it standing in water, or give it daily waterings. Think of Phrags as semi-aquatic Vandas. Light lovers that love water too. Phrag caudatum grows as an epiphyte on trees on the cliffs just below Machu Pichu in Peru, with Masdevallia veitchii growing in the grasses below or alongside. Think daily rain, wet fog & breif periods of very hot bright sun. Temps often quite cool due to elevation. When the sun comes out, it is very bright, because you are almost 2 miles above sea level. Everything gets wet and dries out a couple times a day, then gets wet and stays wet all night long in the wet fog.



This is really great info Leo, and brings up another issue with these guys in that they are prone to Erwinia. I have found that hot and dry air equates to rot much more so than cool and wet. So keeping them cool, very good airflow and high air humidity reduces odds of Erwinia. If they are going to get it, it also corresponds to when they go into massive growth phases, so this year I started light top dressing with bone meal and watering with a dilute phosporus supplement. So far I'm getting really fast growth with no hint of rot as the new growths are breaking through.

Since I use the MSU pure water mix which is a light on P, and P is much less mobile than N in acidic substrates, and for several other reasons, I thought boosting P is a good idea with these guys during heavy growth. Marilyn LeDoux also adds bone meal into her mixes, and I like how she grows these babies.


----------



## Gilda (Jul 9, 2008)

:drool::drool: Fantastic ..I'd call it "Beautiful" !


----------



## SlipperFan (Jul 9, 2008)

Leo Schordje said:


> The Phrag in the first picture posted is Phrag caudatum.
> 
> The 2nd and 4th image are what Sandy Ohlund & Guido Braem refer to as Phrag popowii, formerly known as warszewiczianum. Phrag popowii is the 'Central American version of caudatum.
> 
> The 3rd and 5th photos are what Ohlund & Braem call warszewiczianum, formerly known as wallisii. The lovely Colombian version of caudatum, with the shell pink pouch.


Leo -- I'm wondering if you read my post, or maybe you were writing yours as I was writing mine. But I think we said the same things.


----------



## Phrag-Plus (Jul 10, 2008)

For me it is a caudatum and I'm agreeing with Leo explanations, 
As a biologist I do like taxonomy (always fun) but over the years they did change so many times the names (I’m not mentioning the varieties) that brought a lot of confusion and misidentification in the family... This is the reason why I did start to do my own hybridization program many years ago to try to understand the phylogeny.... Always new surprises!
About culture: I’m growing all my Phrags in the same mix using different size of pot. Smaller they are faster they dry...


----------



## Roy (Jul 10, 2008)

Dot, you've done it again, magic flowering.


----------



## SlipperFan (Jul 12, 2008)

I think the colors are more accurate now. Subtle difference, but I replaced the files.


----------



## Leo Schordje (Jul 14, 2008)

Sorry Dot - I probably was writing while you were posting.


----------



## SlipperFan (Jul 14, 2008)

Leo Schordje said:


> Sorry Dot - I probably was writing while you were posting.


Thanks, Leo. I was afraid I'd said something stupid but didn't catch what it was. It could happen!


----------



## Rayb (Jul 22, 2008)

Thanks Leo that was a great helpI have several long petal Phrags and grow them all in water changing it weekly but was concerned about them from what we are led to believe.

Ray


----------

