# Is it just me?



## MorandiWine (Jan 6, 2017)

Ok, dont get me wrong, I love Phrags. Perhaps more than Paphs. But all the hybrids now that use besseae or kovachii all look alike. It seems that eventually no matter what hybrid you make using the straight species or a hybrid with those species the end result is pretty predictable and similar to dozens more. 

Just kinda wanted to vent as I feel that besseae and kovachii have long since peaked as genetic contributors to anything different and exciting....to me.

This coming from a guy who thinks that besseae is the best orchid in the world.

Tyler


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PaphMadMan (Jan 6, 2017)

I agree that there has been more emphasis than necessary on crosses that are just variations on typical besseae and kovachii forms and colors. For years I have just wanted to yawn when yet another red besseae wannabe comes along. Phrags are somewhat limited in genetic range of forms and colors, but I think breeders have been rather unimaginative or lazy about trying for the more unusual results that should be possible.


----------



## Linus_Cello (Jan 6, 2017)

It could be part of the breeding is driven by the people who like red and large flowers; red is a "good luck" color in Asia (but so is yellow/gold).

There are people who are focusing in small plant phrags; check out Woodstream Orchids.


----------



## NYEric (Jan 6, 2017)

Did you actually start a thread about red Phrag besseae and kovachii crosses!  The largest growth in Phrag hybrids was after the discovery of besseae, it added a completely new color pallet. I have different Phrag hybrids ranging in many colors, like Sedenii v. Candidulum, Mem. Anne Stuckey, and Ice Princes that have bloomed near white, to peach crosses like this,
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2743&highlight=Prissy
, to new crosses with fischeri that bloomed flourescent pink! The variety is amazing without being just "Red".


----------



## JAB (Jan 6, 2017)

Agreed. We need another pink Phrag like a hole in the head. I feel the same about the seemingly endless preoccupation with roth's! 

JAB


----------



## tnyr5 (Jan 6, 2017)

JAB said:


> I feel the same about the seemingly endless preoccupation with roth's!
> 
> JAB



YOU SHUT YOUR HEATHEN MOUTH lol


----------



## NYEric (Jan 6, 2017)

:rollhappy:


----------



## MorandiWine (Jan 6, 2017)

Eric, dont think that I hate besseae, its my favorite species. But does the world need another nearly identical looking flower. Leave it at Jason Fischer and Scarlet Ohara and call it a day. All of the long petal hybrids using besseae are faxes of each other. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NYEric (Jan 6, 2017)

As i stated, there are multitudes of different colors and hues and shapes of besseae and Pk hybrids.


----------



## Linus_Cello (Jan 6, 2017)

MorandiWine said:


> Eric, dont think that I hate besseae, its my favorite species. But does the world need another nearly identical looking flower. Leave it at Jason Fischer and Scarlet Ohara and call it a day.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



No! What about Phrag. Robert-Jan Quene?
(this thread is getting heated... may need to move it to "out back"  )


----------



## emydura (Jan 6, 2017)

JAB said:


> I feel the same about the seemingly endless preoccupation with roth's!
> 
> JAB



That's blasphemous.


----------



## abax (Jan 6, 2017)

I love the smallish, bubble shaped pink Phrags., but
they're not for everyone. I don't think the discussion is
heated...just very individual. I'll take just about any
Phrag. I can get my little greedy hands on!


----------



## JAB (Jan 7, 2017)

LOL! I have been called worse... most recently as a matter of fact 

Sanderianum crosses and species are WAY more interesting IMO! 

Is anyone trying to isolate the gorgeous purple kovachii we see every now and then with the brilliant yellow highlights on the pouch? That would be worth breeding out and isolating!


----------



## MorandiWine (Jan 7, 2017)

I get it Eric. Perhaps I should have clarified that maybe the world does not need another look-a-like hybrid. But I know how much you love besseae and anything with besseae in the background, I'm just complaining. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Happypaphy7 (Jan 8, 2017)

It's not just you. 
I love the colors of those hybrids, but yes, they all look very much alike.
I'm like what's the point? lol


----------



## terryros (Jan 8, 2017)

Beyond color and shape of a flower are other important plant features:

Ease of inducing flowering
Number of flowers
Length of bloom for each flower
Height of first flower on flower spike
Compactness of plant
Resistance to disease
Ease of growth
Ease of making two new growths from each old growth
Closeness together of growths, which is ease of clumping

Each time a breeder shuffles the genetic deck, there is a wish and a hope that one of the things in this list might improve, even if the flower is roughly the same size, shape, and color, which is what we see in a picture.

Since mericloning of Phrags (and Paphs) is not routinely available and purchasing a division of an AM or FCC awarded Phrag/Paph is difficult/expensive, a serious Phrag/Paph grower always has hope that a new seedling from a new cross will have some improvement over the type.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## cnycharles (Jan 8, 2017)

Terry does bring up a good point; availability of slippers being less than other orchids. If all this breeding means there might actually be a plant available of a cross and isn't super expensive, then i'm all for it. There are phrags up in canada not available here so if duplicate or near crosses make similar plants available here, that's great


----------



## tnyr5 (Jan 8, 2017)

JAB said:


> Sanderianum crosses and species are WAY more interesting IMO!



That's strike two! :viking:


----------



## JAB (Jan 8, 2017)

What do I win with strike three?????


----------



## Happypaphy7 (Jan 8, 2017)

I prefer roth over sandy. haha
but don't really like either. 
Is this going to count as a strike too? 

My favorite multis are roebelini (sp?) and "good" stonei.


----------



## NYEric (Jan 8, 2017)

Funny that my longifolium x Imagine bloomed now. It has besseae on the Imagine side but has color similar to Mem. Estelle Getty.


----------



## MorandiWine (Jan 9, 2017)

there's a couple cookies for ya ;-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## troy (Jan 9, 2017)

Lol...


----------



## tnyr5 (Jan 9, 2017)

Eric, just ignore Tyler; he can't tell crackers from cookies .


----------



## NYEric (Jan 9, 2017)

When I get a PC I will post photos of dozens of different colors and shapes in besseae hybrids.


----------



## tnyr5 (Jan 9, 2017)

Lol he's just teasing you. As am I when I say I can't wait to see all the slightly-different shades of orange . *runs & hides*


----------



## MorandiWine (Jan 9, 2017)

No need Eric. I just picked up a few dozen paint chips from Home Depot in hues of pink, red and orange. 

Tonys is spot on by the way....just pokin' fun.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------

