# Maybe too much light?



## abax (Apr 28, 2014)

I've been growing my Paphs. and Phrags. in slightly higher than Phal.
light and they've been very slow to put out new leads. The color of the
Brachy leaves seems a bit faded to me. However, those large enough to
bloom are blooming. I have aluminet at 50%, but until the sun gets
higher in the sky and the trees around the greenhouse leaf out completely,
it still seems to be too much. Since the long side of my gh is south facing,
I've added another 50% shade cloth over the side of the gh where most
of my Paphs. and Phrags. are placed. I took a light meter reading yesterday
and today (quite sunny) and the needle hardly moved at all.

Now I'm a bit confused. I have an Enlightened Wings blooming and a
niveum with one bloom opening and another spike with two buds showing.
I can only conclude that my light meter is inaccurate or the light in my
greenhouse is so diffused through one layer of fiberglass and two layers
of greenhouse plastic (for dead space) that I just can't get an accurate
reading. The hand/shade thing doesn't work either.

Since I'm quite the newbie with slippers, I feel a conundrum coming on.
If anyone has any comments, questions or stupidity abuse, let me have
it.


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## NYEric (Apr 28, 2014)

A photo of the leaves would help to give advice about over-exposure.


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## SlipperFan (Apr 28, 2014)

I grow my Phrags and multifloral Paphs quite bright. The Phrags are on the south end of my greenhouse, and the multiflorals are hanging throughout. They are both under 30% aluminet, but the greenhouse itself has tinted glass that cuts down on some light, so maybe the total is 50%. The mottled-leaf Paphs are in the middle and under the hanging multiflorals. I'd say your Phrags aren't growing too bright, but the Paphs may be. 

Did you check the battery in your light meter?


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## Ray (Apr 28, 2014)

Eric is right that a photo would help, but morning sunlight is probably not an issue, as it's coming through-, and being attenuated to some degree by more of the atmosphere.

I have absolutely no shade cloth on my greenhouse yet, and all of my slippers are growing like mad these days, putting out multiple growths like mad. I am watering every day that it's sunny with K-Lite at about 35-50 ppm N, and supplemented 3 days in a row with KelpMax about a month ago.


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## Trithor (Apr 28, 2014)

Angela, take a few pics, and I will post them for you.


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## abax (Apr 28, 2014)

Gary, I will do so when it quits raining...maybe three days.

All of your suggestions are helpful. Thank you.

I only fertilize about twice a month with K-Lite at 1/4 tsp. Perhaps that's
the problem.

Dot, I'll check the battery, however, it's a new one. Of course, there's a possibility
that there's a bad battery.


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## SlipperFan (Apr 28, 2014)

abax said:


> Gary, I will do so when it quits raining...maybe three days.
> 
> All of your suggestions are helpful. Thank you.
> 
> ...



That fact that the needle won't move sounds like a battery issue to me.


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## goldenrose (Apr 28, 2014)

may be time for a dose of epsom salts? 
The light does not sound like too much to me.


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## abax (Apr 29, 2014)

Hmmm...epsom salts. I hadn't thought of that. I do epsom salts in the
fall and never thought of doing it in the spring. Somehow the idea of "salts"
on Paphs. kind of scares me. Might a tsp. per gallon be about right?

Dot, I tested the battery and it's fine. The needle moves. It just doesn't
move very much with the addition of the 50% side cloth. I expected a lower
reading, however, the diffuse light in my greenhouse is pretty even everywhere in there.


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## Ozpaph (Apr 29, 2014)

How are you taking the light meter reading and what with?
Is the 'scale' correct?


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## gonewild (Apr 29, 2014)

abax said:


> Somehow the idea of "salts"
> on Paphs. kind of scares me.



If "Salts" scares you then use Magnesium Sulfate instead. 
Same thing but might sound less scary.


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## Ray (Apr 29, 2014)

abax said:


> Somehow the idea of "salts"
> on Paphs. kind of scares me.


And just what do you think most fertilizer ingredients are?

I think you're fertilizer dosing is WAY too low or infrequent.

With the MSU RO fertilizer, having that same nitrogen level, 1/4 tsp/gal will give you about 40 ppm N. K-lite has a lower bulk density (about 20% lower), so your 1/4 teaspoon will provide even less nutrition.

I am now feeding my plants at about 35 ppm N, which is probably where your levels are, but I'm doing so several times a week. Last week, when it was sunny, I watered 5 times...


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## abax (Apr 30, 2014)

Thanks Ray. I don't understand the chemistry, but I can fertilize more
often. However, if I tried fertilizing as much as you do, everything in my
greenhouse would rot. I only need to water twice a week due to rather
erratic weather. 

Lance, it's all in the words one uses, eh?

Ozpaph, I don't know how to answer your question. The meter has a scale for sunlight
and a scale for HID, etc. It has an extention piece that is held above or beside the
plant and the meter "reads" that particular area. Is that what you're asking? The
product is made by Scientific Instruments.


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## Ray (Apr 30, 2014)

If you water twice a week, see what feeding once a week at 1/4 tsp does.


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## Trithor (May 4, 2014)

(Sorry Angela, I took the liberty of posting an older picture of the interior of your grow area as it relates to the current problem and post, I hope you don't mind?)


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## Rick (May 4, 2014)

abax said:


> Thanks Ray. I don't understand the chemistry, but I can fertilize more
> often. However, if I tried fertilizing as much as you do, everything in my
> greenhouse would rot. I only need to water twice a week due to rather
> erratic weather.



Frequent very light feedings are better than infrequent heavy feedings.

I water mys stuff daily at 5-10ppm N daily to every third day.

Most of us have been taught to keep things a lot dryer for fear of root rot.

But with K way down and Ca up you can water lots more which will encourage more growth (especially roots).

Plants grow ( and use nutrients) 7 days a week, not just the day you add chemicals to the potting mix. And unless the pot is wet, NPK doesn't move from the mix into the plant roots.

Also plants are 99% water and CO2. That's what plants really "eat". The fert is just the 1% tools for the plants to make more plant and carbs to grow with.

Also if you've been adding pH buffering top dress materials (like oyster shell), that will raise the pH of the mix and reduce the availability of phosphate and iron. These "nutrients" are required for the plant to make sugars and utilize nitrogen effectively for chlorophyl production (amongst other things). These are things that effect "greenness"

In the old days of heavy feeding all that extra food would force the pH down and buffering was necessary to keep the pot from getting too acidic. But under a lite feeding regime the pH will climb and can short you plants. So take the buffer out of your mixes.


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## abax (May 5, 2014)

No buffers...just plain Orchiata...different sizes for large or small plants.

Thank you, Gary. Hope life was good at the farm.

Oh, the pH coming out of the pot is pretty much neutral. I check it about
once a month or so.

I don't mind at all Gary. That photo was taken maybe a year ago. The gh has a lot
more plants now. I know the people to blame too! ;>)


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## Stone (May 5, 2014)

abax said:


> > I've been growing my Paphs. and Phrags. in slightly higher than Phal.
> 
> 
> If the Phals are doing well and have nice big leaves then you can gage your light from that; Give the barbata types less and the brachys and parvis the same as the phals or a bit more. The multis a bit more again.
> ...


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## Trithor (May 5, 2014)

Looking at the niveum, that you are flowering at the moment, I would say your light is perfect for that plant. Wow, it has to be one of the healthiest brachys that I have seen posted of late.
(Sorry about not posting the other picture of your plants, I don't know what happened to it, I posted it when I got back from the farm, and this morning it had disappeared! Perhaps I posted it in some other thread by mistake? I will try again after dinner)


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## abax (May 6, 2014)

Gary, have a delightful, leisurely dinner and don't worry about the photo.
I forgot about the fans again and the pic was a tad blurry. I think I have
the light just about right now that I've added the side panel of shade
cloth. Time will tell.

Hey, the tulip poplars are blooming and the hummingbirds have returned! SPRING!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Trithor (May 6, 2014)

Angela, please will you take a picture of the poplars. I have always wondered what they look like. I often buy tulip poplar timber to make drawer cases at the workshop.


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## NYEric (May 6, 2014)

um..unless that was a cloudy day, my hall closet is brighter.. That is not the issue.


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## abax (May 7, 2014)

Twas a cloudy day and a baaaad phone camera.

I will make an attempt to take a photo of the poplars, but they're somewhere between 30-40' trees. Did I mention that I'm afraid of
heights? I think Rick in TN posted a photo of a flower last spring.
Our rafter/beam ceiling is tulip poplar and it's beautiful...so many
pictures for the imagination in the colors and grain.


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## gonewild (May 7, 2014)

abax said:


> I will make an attempt to take a photo of the poplars, but they're somewhere between 30-40' trees. Did I mention that I'm afraid of
> heights?



30-40' tall trees scare you? Just to photograph them?
oke


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## Rick (May 7, 2014)

abax said:


> No buffers...just plain Orchiata...different sizes for large or small plants.
> 
> 
> Oh, the pH coming out of the pot is pretty much neutral. I check it about
> once a month or so.



Orchiata comes "pre-buffered" because of their lime composting system.

Yes if pH is coming out at 7 that is probably too high for good adsorption of P and Fe. Both would be much better utilized around 5.5-6.0


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## abax (May 8, 2014)

Lance, the trees don't scare me, but trying to take a photo with a Galaxy S4 scares me a
bit.

Gary, a photo is on the way, but it's going to be hard to tell one tree from
another back here in the woods. I also took a photo of the bark and will
send that one if my computer agrees.

Rick, the run through is usually very slightly +- 6.0.


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## Ozpaph (May 11, 2014)

most light meters have a function that changes the 'scale' by a factor of 10, 100 and 1000. Take a photo of the light meter in position in the GH - that'll help.


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## Rick (May 11, 2014)

abax said:


> Twas a cloudy day and a baaaad phone camera.
> 
> I will make an attempt to take a photo of the poplars, but they're somewhere between 30-40' trees. Did I mention that I'm afraid of
> heights? I think Rick in TN posted a photo of a flower last spring.
> ...



http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30226&highlight=Tulip

Thanks for remembering Angela

This same tree is just starting to bloom now. So far not as good as last year, but it had single digit temps to contend with this past winter.


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## abax (May 13, 2014)

Much better photo than I sent to Gary. Our
blooms are starting to fall and the blossom probably fell 30' feet and was quite faded.

Thank you for re-posting.


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