# Mixing low K fertilizer



## abax (Jan 17, 2012)

Let me see if I have this right, please. If I mix 1/8 tsp.
Jack's Pro (16-4-20 3 1 rec. at 1/4 tsp), 1/8 tsp. calcium nitrate (Calcinit water soluable) and 1/8 tsp. epsom salts
per gallon, I'll have approximately the formula of the K-Lite. The Jack's Pro has considerable micronutrients and
I will be cutting my usual dose in half and substituting the
cal.nit. and epsom salts for additional mag. Right?

I realize I'm getting tiresome with these questions, but I'm
trying to get this right until Ray gets more of the K-Lite to
sell.


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## Rick (Jan 17, 2012)

What is your usual dose of Jack's, and what is the final N concentration that you are shooting for?

And what is the chemistry of your irrigation water? (At least hardness).


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## gonewild (Jan 17, 2012)

I would use double the amount of Calcium Nitrate to further reduce the Potassium ratio level. But I'm just now having my morning coffee so maybe I'm delirious? :wink:


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## NYEric (Jan 17, 2012)

Wheeeeee!


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## goldenrose (Jan 17, 2012)

:rollhappy: I'm not a coffee drinker so I doubt that would help me! 
Does anyone else think this should be a new thread? Don't we have 3 now? The other thread is more 'techno' but I'm wondering if down the road when one goes back to refresh their memory or newbies searching now we have to jump around to multiple threads. I'm with you abax on your 2nd thread simplifying it, but shouldn't this thread be a continuance of that one?


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## Brabantia (Jan 17, 2012)

Assuming that 1 tsp = 5 gr,
1/4 tsp Jack's + 1/8 tsp Ca Nitr + 1/8 tsp Epsom salt
is giving a solution which is 78 ppm N, 55 ppm K, 41 ppm Ca.

1/4 tsp Jack's + 1/4 tsp Ca Nitr + 1/8 tsp Epsom salt
is giving a solution which is 104 ppm N, 55 ppm K, 73 ppm Ca.


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## keithrs (Jan 17, 2012)

Still high on the K from what Rick said on a earlier thread....


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## gonewild (Jan 17, 2012)

Yes still high on the potassium (K) but about 30% lower by doubling the Calcium Nitrate. Double the Calcium Nitrate again and see what happens the the ratio.

The problem is the Jacks is so high in K to start with.


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## Rick (Jan 17, 2012)

Need to cut more Jack's and up the CaNO3

At 1/8 tsp of Jack's you would at least be down to ~25ppm K. That's getting there.


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## abax (Jan 18, 2012)

*Jack's normal dose per gallon is 1/4 tsp. and I'm*

suggesting cutting that in half and adding 1/8 tsp. cal. and 1/8 epsom salts. I realize that's still high K, but is better
than I've been using. Might 1/4 cal. be better? My water is neither hard nor soft, very, very close to neutral and very low TDS. Excellent water, in fact, right out of the tap
and I test often.

goldenrose, I have no idea where anything goes on this
topic. It seems to me that it is all over the place and every time Ray tries to keep the topic to results of testing that topic goes all over the place too. Perhaps Ray should make one topic for results and try to restrict wondering off that topic. I'm just sayin'...............


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## abax (Jan 18, 2012)

TN Rick, that's what I was trying to say in the opening thread. Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. There are
forumites at OSF who are interested in this topic too and we're all trying to figure things out as we go.


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## Stone (Jan 18, 2012)

abax said:


> suggesting cutting that in half and adding 1/8 tsp. cal. and 1/8 epsom salts. I realize that's still high K, but is better
> than I've been using. Might 1/4 cal. be better? My water is neither hard nor soft, very, very close to neutral and very low TDS. Excellent water, in fact, right out of the tap
> and I test often.
> 
> ...



abax, Unless your K imput is almost nil, ( like Rick n Ray's ) you will probably find that your plants will still find and upload K regardless. Remember that your mix is probably full of the stuff. Isn't this fun??
Just a side note, Ammonium inhibits K but unfortunately Mg and Ca as well.

Mike


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## Brabantia (Jan 18, 2012)

> Just a side note, Ammonium inhibits K but unfortunately Mg and Ca as well.
> 
> Mike



At what ratio N(NH4+)/K, N(NH4+)/Mg .... All the elements have there antagonists. Personally I am for a ratio NO3-/N (NH4+) 80/20. This ratio is often considered as optimal by the plants nutritionists literature.
A good lecture on this subject *Here*


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## Ray (Jan 18, 2012)

The K-Lite formula (and the MSU formulas) is about 20:1 NO3-:NH4+, as "greenhouse grade" calcium nitrate contains a small amount of ammonium nitrate.

I took a look at the bag of stuff I have, and it's about 1% ammonaical nitrogen, which apparently is about a pure as it gets unless you go to non-horticultural grades.

Bill Argo sent me a copy of an article, he, Paul Fisher, (U Fla) and a grad student wrote for _Greenhouse Grower_ that was a general outline of nutrient deficiencies. Their summary suggests <2% K will lead to deficiencies in typical greenhouse crops, but Bill acknowledged that he has no idea of its applicability to orchids. I guess we'll see - probably me first, as most of my plants are in an inert medium.

He did say that deficiency symptoms tend not to be species-specific, so be on the lookout for "edges of lower leaves becoming chlorotic or necrotic".


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## abax (Jan 19, 2012)

Mike, I don't know whether this is fun or not for me. I'm
more than a little confused, but my orchids seem rather fine to me with my current fertilizer. However, I'm willing to alter my habits should the new information prove beneficial. *wheeeeeeeeeeeee*

Addendum: I now wish I'd taken my doctorate in chemistry instead of English Renaissance Literature.:>(


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## Stone (Jan 19, 2012)

abax said:


> Mike, I don't know whether this is fun or not for me. I'm
> more than a little confused, but my orchids seem rather fine to me with my current fertilizer. However, I'm willing to alter my habits should the new information prove beneficial. *wheeeeeeeeeeeee*
> 
> Addendum: I now wish I'd taken my doctorate in chemistry instead of English Renaissance Literature.:>(



Well abax, it's fun for some!
English Renaissance Literature hey. Is that back when the English ''gentlemen'' pranced around Florence drinking wine by the litre, reciting poetry and trying to get laid as I learned from Black Adder?:rollhappy:

Mike


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## Rick (Jan 19, 2012)

abax said:


> suggesting cutting that in half and adding 1/8 tsp. cal. and 1/8 epsom salts. I realize that's still high K, but is better
> than I've been using. Might 1/4 cal. be better? My water is neither hard nor soft, very, very close to neutral and very low TDS. Excellent water, in fact, right out of the tap
> and I test often.



I don't think you need that much nitrogen to go to 1/4 tsp cal nitrate.

There is no such thing as "neutral" hardness, but if your water is similar to Nashville tap it is "moderately hard" with a hardness of roughly 80 mg/L as CaCO3 ("not soft and not hard"). TDS is roughly 100 mg/L(conductivity about 180mseimen), which I wouldn't call "very low" compared to rain water, but its definitely not Southern California water. Nashville tap already supplies about 25 ppm of Ca with each watering, so another reason not to go to 1/4 tsp of CaNO3


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## abax (Jan 20, 2012)

1/8 tsp. of each it will be. As you can tell, I'm still a bit vague about "hardness" and have to depend on our water
assoc. report about every six months and I don't necessarily understand all of the info. the assoc. sends out. I test for some things that relate to our pool that we
like to maintain as perfectly as possible.


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## abax (Jan 20, 2012)

*Dear Mike, I appreciate that those knowledgable*

about chemistry are enjoying themselves. It makes me happy and I learn a little something now and then.

I'm not familiar with Black Adder. Renaissance lit. roughly
covers the written word during Elizabeth I reign. My area
of expertise is Edmund Spenser and the first book of THE
FAIRIE QUEEN. The wild parties you mentioned took place
at Elizabeth's court, not in Catholic Italy. Generally, I think
the whole period was great fun if one was rich and very miserable if one was poor...as always.


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## Stone (Jan 20, 2012)

abax, Here is some info. on water hardness.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_water

This isn't the right forum but quickly, Black Adder is an English comedy series centered around the Royal household from pre Elizabethan to WW1. I think it's the funniest comedy ever written.
If you have a good sense of humour, you should take a look.

Mike


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## abax (Jan 21, 2012)

Thank you, Mike, for the info. on hard water. We should have a report from our water company at the end of the month and I'll try to understand more of it. I'd guess, using the soap illustration, that we have soft water.

I'll see if I can find Black Adder on DVD. I've never seen it on our DirecTV menu. Sounds wonderfully funny.


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## Justin (Jan 21, 2012)

abax said:


> Mike, I don't know whether this is fun or not for me. I'm
> more than a little confused, but my orchids seem rather fine to me with my current fertilizer. However, I'm willing to alter my habits should the new information prove beneficial. *wheeeeeeeeeeeee*
> 
> Addendum: I now wish I'd taken my doctorate in chemistry instead of English Renaissance Literature.:>(




Hey abax i have my Ph.D. in Ren. lit too. Where did u go to school? What was your dissertation on?


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## Ray (Jan 21, 2012)

Just an FYI for everyone - I have more of the K-Lite fertilizer on order.

A few folks were "asleep at the wheel" the first go-round, and several people here (including a few lurkers) contacted me, asking to get some "next time".

Rick and I agreed we could expand the test base, and I wanted to have some available at the NCOS Paph Forum next month.


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## abax (Jan 22, 2012)

I'm usually asleep at the wheel, but have been prodded
awake. Count me in for two pounds, please.


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## billc (Jan 22, 2012)

Ray, you can put another "sleeper" down for a pound.

Bill


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## Ray (Jan 22, 2012)

I will be packaging it in my standard, 2# resealable jar, and listing it with the "Chemicals - Nutrients" at my store.

I'll let everyone know when it's ready to go.


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## NYEric (Jan 24, 2012)

I'm currently making my own. I took a 30-10-10 add some Protekt and Dynagrow for old time sake and some Epson salt.


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## cnycharles (Jan 24, 2012)

why would you want to add more protekt? it's mainly just adding more potassium. I had thought about the possibility of using 30-10-10 weakly, along with calcium nitrate and epsom salts (maybe not all together in the same bucket)


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## NYEric (Jan 25, 2012)

I just add a little bit of the Proteckt because that's what the plants are used to.


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## Ray (Jan 25, 2012)

The new batch just arrived; I hope to have it packaged today or tomorrow.


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## Ray (Jan 28, 2012)

K-Lite, 2# resealable jars are now available at our store.

Rick and I discussed it, and we're going to open up the trial to anyone wanting to participate, but to give an advantage to those of you who regularly participate here, through the end of February, use the coupon code "SLIPPERTALK" at checkout to get $2 off, making it the same price the rest of us paid. Please don't share that with folks outside.


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## SlipperFan (Jan 28, 2012)

Ray, do you think you'll eventually sell it in 25# bags?


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## Ray (Jan 29, 2012)

I don't see why not, but maybe a bit premature to expect anyone to make that big of a commitment.


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## SlipperFan (Jan 29, 2012)

Just looking down the road.....


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## Ray (Jan 30, 2012)

FWIW, I got a call from a large-scale hobby grower (about 3000 square feet of greenhouse) on Sunday afternoon wanting a full bag, as he feels that is exactly the right direction to go nutritionally, based upon his own research, and he couldn't find a source.


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