# paphiopedilum delenatii vinicolor



## Hakone (Mar 3, 2012)

from friend ( Germany )


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## biothanasis (Mar 3, 2012)

Ohhhhhhh.....!!! So great colour!!!!!


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## fbrem (Mar 3, 2012)

wow that's a lot of color, even on the petals. The pouch looks odd to me, small and set very low, maybe it's the angle. Very nice regardless, great bloom!!!


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## Hakone (Mar 3, 2012)

delenatii pastell


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## Rick (Mar 3, 2012)

I like those super dark flowers


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## Erythrone (Mar 3, 2012)

Your vini is stunning!


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## SlipperKing (Mar 3, 2012)

Both have their charm. Love that vini staminode.


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## Shiva (Mar 3, 2012)

One of the very best I've seen.


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## Ozpaph (Mar 3, 2012)

Lovely.
Are the terms vinicolor and Dunkle interchangeable??


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## ORG (Mar 3, 2012)

The dark colored form of _Paph. delenatii_ was described as 
*Paphiopedilum delenatii forma vinicolor*
The word *'dunkel' *was only the german tradename for these dark colored clones and this word means only *'dark'*

The plant shown by Hakone was the result of a cross between 2 different clones of _Paph. delenatii_ forma _vinicolor _and you can see that the result is really a forma _vinicolor_.

Best greetings

Olaf


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## SlipperKing (Mar 3, 2012)

Dumb taxonomists should of named it forma dunkel. Some of us like it better and it was used first!


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## ORG (Mar 3, 2012)

It was not named by a taxonomist, but it was impossible to use dunkel, because it was not a latin word.
But why don't you like vinicolor? The color of these clones are really like the color of a dark red vine.












Best greetings

Olaf


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## John M (Mar 3, 2012)

SlipperKing said:


> Dumb taxonomists should of named it forma dunkel. Some of us like it better and it was used first!



I have to say, I do like "Dunkel" better than "Vinicolour". I like the reference to the German origin of this plant in the hobby. But, it's not something I lose any sleep over. ......And I have to agree that the taxonomists really couldn't have used Dunkel if they wanted to, because the name must be latin. Imagine the uproar if the taxonomists that named this one with a non-latin name. Basically, it wouldn't be recognised as a legitimate name and another taxonomist could come along and rename it......and his name, as long as it was in latin, would become the correct, "legal" name.


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## Hien (Mar 3, 2012)

I too like the word Dunkel , for some unknown reason, it sounds nice to my ears.


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## SlipperFan (Mar 3, 2012)

Vinicolor is Latin?


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## Hakone (Mar 4, 2012)

Wine = Vini = Genitive case. ( Latin )

red color as red wine


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## chrismende (Mar 4, 2012)

I love all this linguistic and taxonomic frenzy we work ourselves up into...

Thanks, Olaf, for the clarification on the origin of that flower's "Uberdunkel!" (add Umlaut as needed...)


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## Hakone (Mar 4, 2012)

Latin is a dead language 

For medical school and teachers school you have to learn Latin in Germany . These time is over, nowhere is spoken in Latin.


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## JeanLux (Mar 4, 2012)

Both are beauties Tai!!!! Thanks for showing; you have good friends!!! Jean


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## Ozpaph (Mar 4, 2012)

ORG said:


> The dark colored form of _Paph. delenatii_ was described as
> *Paphiopedilum delenatii forma vinicolor*
> The word *'dunkel' *was only the german tradename for these dark colored clones and this word means only *'dark'*
> 
> ...


Thank-you for the explanation.


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## SlipperFan (Mar 4, 2012)

So, vini is latin. Is "color"? How about vinidunkel? oke:


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## Erythrone (Mar 4, 2012)

Yes, Dot, color is the latin word for... color!

Paph concolor

Cattleya bicolor

Vanda tricolor


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## Ozpaph (Mar 4, 2012)

so why not dunkelii if you want it latinised???


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## SlipperFan (Mar 5, 2012)

Ozpaph said:


> so why not dunkelii if you want it latinised???



Good point. They latinize people's names.


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## ORG (Mar 14, 2012)

For me is more the question

*Why Dunkel!!!*

I have writte the description of this colorform. I had spoken at first with the owner of the type-plant in Germany. He had written on the label of the plant 
_Paph. delenatii _'dunkel' or in english 'dark', because the leaves had black margins. He could give also the name 'schwarz' (black), but ge agreed with me that the better word for this colorform is _*vinicolor*_.

So I wrote the description.

Sometimes the owner of the plants prefer to use names which are difficult to pronounce like
*Paph. javanicum forma nymphenburgianum.*

But when they want to use this name then it is ok, also when some persons in the world don't like it.

Or shall we ask at first all people, if the name is suitable for all?

Best greetings

Olaf


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## Hakone (Mar 14, 2012)

vini = wine 

In Germany are 2 kinds of wine:

- Red wine

- White wine

vinicolor = color of wine , but here must understand Red wine. I suspect that he would rather drink red wine.


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## NYEric (Mar 14, 2012)

Hakone said:


> vini = wine



"Vini" as also Latin for I came; as in "Vidi, vichi, vini!"

I couldn't resist! :evil:


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## slippertalker (Mar 14, 2012)

With the new changes departing from the need to write taxonomic descriptions in latin, does that also apply to the nomenclature?


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## Erythrone (Mar 14, 2012)

Bill, the scientific names will be in Latin. Only the description will be in English.


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## Lycaste53 (Mar 14, 2012)

ORG said:


> For me is more the question
> 
> *Why Dunkel!!!*
> 
> ...



We should NOT do that, Nymphenburg or Neuschwanstein and Oberschleissheim are much more common all over the world than some other places, and we are proud of that. The greenhouses of the castle of Nymphenburg had the first warm- water- heating system in Germany, the great fountain in front of the main building gets, since more than 250 years, the water- pressure by pumps, invented and created from Effner, they are still working... I will go there in the next days and make some pics.
Best regards from Munich, next Nymphenburg!


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## hchan (Mar 14, 2012)

SlipperFan said:


> Good point. They latinize people's names.



And Dunkel is a German surname... I guess we just like it for sentimental reasons  Plus it's a type of German beer...


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## W. Beetus (Mar 14, 2012)

Very nice looking bloom!


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## SlipperFan (Mar 14, 2012)

hchan said:


> And Dunkel is a German surname... I guess we just like it for sentimental reasons  Plus it's a type of German beer...



I'll remember that!


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## Pete (Mar 15, 2012)

vinicolor is good. thanks for doing the official description on it olaf. but i have a question, the "sibling cross" your talking off, is that for real, because I heard there was only one plant originally collected with that coloration. hence making everything else "selected selfings".. or were there a lot of plants collected?


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## valenzino (Mar 15, 2012)

Pete said:


> vinicolor is good. thanks for doing the official description on it olaf. but i have a question, the "sibling cross" your talking off, is that for real, because I heard there was only one plant originally collected with that coloration. hence making everything else "selected selfings".. or were there a lot of plants collected?



No,a small colony supposedly was found,and so there are different individuals wild collected around the world...


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## ORG (Mar 15, 2012)

Thanks Valenzino,
so it is not necessary to write more about

Olaf


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## Marc (Mar 15, 2012)

Lycaste53 said:


> The greenhouses of the castle of Nymphenburg had the first warm- water- heating system in Germany, the great fountain in front of the main building gets, since more than 250 years, the water- pressure by pumps, invented and created from Effner, they are still working... I will go there in the next days and make some pics.
> Best regards from Munich, next Nymphenburg!



Please do so and post the pictures here if you would be so kind.


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