# Growing conditions for urbanianun



## VickiC (Aug 19, 2010)

Hi,
As I mentioned in the introductory forum, I'm concerned that my growing conditions are not suited for Paphs.  I've searched the internet, but I have found that some sites are contradictory, or vary somewhat, to others...so I would appreciate advice from you experienced growers. I rec'd my first Paph last week and it now sits in front of an east window but is not getting much light- approx. 300-900 footcandles (at the most). This may be due to the way our house is built....the window is very slightly shaded??). About 30-40% humidity and not much air flow. Also, I have no shear curtains on any window. I could move my Paph to my greenhouse where I would have control of the light it receives (small pieces of shadecloth, etc.) and I'm guessing that my humidity level is ok for it ?? I'm also guessing that the air flow is ok. ?? That's another thing I hope to learn from you. My gh conditions are:

General high for the day-appprox. 95 degrees in the summer (Of course, I have more control in the winter because of adjustable therm. heaters).

GH humidity is approx. 60-80% in the summer....quite a bit lower in the winter.

Of course, I can control watering, but I would appreciate help as to damp, dry or whatever is needed. 

Airflow seems to be good...2 large fans-1 under each bench, as well as a very small clip on fan that would increase airflow to the Paph itself. 

Please let me know if I have missed something....

So, what do you think? 

I have included a pic. of the Paph (it's small). I repotted it when I rec'd it (a general practice I have). I had to overpot it into a 4" pot because at the time I didn't think I had a smaller one, but but I have since found a 3" plastic pot and repotted it again, in hopes it would be better suited. 

I would also appreciate any tips you many have to offer.
Thanks,
Vicki


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## Paphman910 (Aug 19, 2010)

Grow them at 800-1000 foot candles and intermediate temperatures (75-80 F Day to 60-65 F Night). 

Your medium looks like coconut husk in a clay pot. Make sure you keep medium moist since clay pots dry out more quickly!


Paphman910


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Aug 19, 2010)

I think in the long run your plant may do better in bark...I find that the barbata paphs (of which yours is one) do not take to coconut husk for more than a few months. A plastic pot will help maintain the moisture of the mix...unless you are growing in a humid greenhouse, small paphs are best in plastic or glazed pots. For larger paphs it doesn't matter.


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## VickiC (Aug 21, 2010)

*Paphman*

Uh oh...I probably wouldn't be able to supply enough light for Paphs in the house, and if I tried to grow them in the greenhouse, the temp would be too hot (approx. 95 degrees). Gosh, looks like I'm gonna have to figure out another way to go. Back to the drawing board. 
Thanks...
Vicki

I have it in a smaller plastic pot now, but the medium is still coconut husk. Is that ok...or is there another medium that you think would be better?




Paphman910 said:


> Grow them at 800-1000 foot candles and intermediate temperatures (75-80 F Day to 60-65 F Night).
> 
> Your medium looks like coconut husk in a clay pot. Make sure you keep medium moist since clay pots dry out more quickly!
> 
> ...


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## VickiC (Aug 21, 2010)

*Eric Muehlbauer*

Thanks for the info....I really had no idea what medium would be best to use. I just guessed. 

I had already moved it from the clay pot into a smaller plastic pot. I still don't know what to do about the low light problem inside the house vs the high temp. in the greenhouse. Looks like I need to work something different out. 

Thanks again,
Vicki



Eric Muehlbauer said:


> I think in the long run your plant may do better in bark...I find that the barbata paphs (of which yours is one) do not take to coconut husk for more than a few months. A plastic pot will help maintain the moisture of the mix...unless you are growing in a humid greenhouse, small paphs are best in plastic or glazed pots. For larger paphs it doesn't matter.


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## Rick (Aug 21, 2010)

I grow the majority of paphs in my GH with temps as high as you are pushing.

However, you can't generalize ALL paphs as having the same requirements.

Paph urbanium is from the Barbata group (as Eric mentioned). This group which probably comprises about 1/3 to 1/2 of the 80 or so Paph species are generally found deep in the forest near or on the forest floor rooted in deep forest duff or moss. Depending on the elevation they are found can dictate the temperature preferences, but generally if you provide enough shade and humidity they can get into the 90's OK. I don't have urbanium in my collection, but about 15 other Barbata species. They are in the darkest part of my GH. I've had some similar experiences as Eric about poor results with coconut husk based mixes for Barbata paph species, but am getting better results with bark based mixes or semihydro methods. This group often tends to do the best of Paph species under "windowsill" conditions in the house.

In comparison there are a group of Paph species that are large strap leafed plants that produce multifloral spikes. Many of these species like as much light as Cattleya's higher temps and grow great for me in CHC based mixes. Many of these species are in the hottest, brightest spots in my GH

Even in my 8X14 GH I'm able to find a niche spot for the whole range of Paph species. Lance Birk's book "A Paphiopedilum Growers Manual" is a great book for learning the different species groups, geographic home range climate and habitat, and tips for culture.

If you start growing hybrids you generally find that they are much more tolerant of a wider range of growing conditions.


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## VickiC (Aug 21, 2010)

*Rick*

Ok, Right or wrong...here's what I came up with this afternoon. Today was an average summer day here. In back of my gh on a pot turned upside down...in a 3" plastic pot inside a 4" clay for support...approx. 1300 fc...getting air flow from the two lg. fans several feet away-1 under each bench, as well as the very small black fan attached to a shelf, blowing in it's direction...gh humidity at the time was approx. 70%. I also have it sitting on a clay saucer of rocks with slight amt. of water...temp. about 90 or so, I think. Guess that's all. So, what do you think...Good? Bad? Suggestions? Anything? Anyone else?
Thanks for looking,
Vicki





Rick said:


> I grow the majority of paphs in my GH with temps as high as you are pushing.
> 
> However, you can't generalize ALL paphs as having the same requirements.
> 
> ...


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## SlipperKing (Aug 21, 2010)

Pretty fancy floor for a greehouse! plant looks fine


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Aug 21, 2010)

FWIW, all my paphs, including urbanianum, are outdoors. This has been one of the most consistently hot summers I can remember. 90's many more days than not, and urbanianum has been doing fine, along with most of my paphs.


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## Rick (Aug 21, 2010)

SlipperKing said:


> Pretty fancy floor for a greehouse! plant looks fine




Wow. Looks pristine compared to my GH

I think those conditions will be fine. Except for being lonely for some more plant companionshipoke:oke:

We want more pics Vicki!!


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## VickiC (Aug 22, 2010)

*SlipperKing*

Naaah, not fancy at all. I just watered down the floor...sorta looks like some kinda finish...but no. Landscape cloth, then 6" of gravel, then wood floor. I wish we had dug a lil deeper, but 'hind sight is 20/20', you know. 





SlipperKing said:


> Pretty fancy floor for a greehouse! plant looks fine


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## SlipperKing (Aug 22, 2010)

That floor's going to get slick once the algae grows!


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## VickiC (Aug 23, 2010)

*SlipperKing*

I know...it's already slick in places because of the algae. I knew that treated wood in a greenhouse had it's downsides...algae being one (boat docks, for example) but decided to go that route anyway. I originally chose all gravel with stepping stones, but changed my mind mainly because I wanted to be sure my shelves sat level. That might not have been a problem, but I didn't know. I still like the idea of all gravel because of the humidity factor, but maybe the 6" under my wood floor will work out ok. Since this is my first greenhouse (and most likely my last), I didn't have 'experience' on my side.....I just had to do the trial and error thing. 




QUOTE=SlipperKing;232982]That floor's going to get slick once the algae grows![/QUOTE]


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## VickiC (Aug 23, 2010)

*Eric Muehlbauer*

I envy you because I would like to be able to grow my orchids outside, but since I live in the country with critters running around....knocking flower pots over, yada yada yada, I can't. I have lots of other flowers outside, just no orchids. 

I understand what you're saying about the consistent 90+ days, so I won't be as concerned about high temps in the greenhouse as I was. Thanks for your input. 






Eric Muehlbauer said:


> FWIW, all my paphs, including urbanianum, are outdoors. This has been one of the most consistently hot summers I can remember. 90's many more days than not, and urbanianum has been doing fine, along with most of my paphs.


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## NYEric (Aug 23, 2010)

I thought that was a finished floor too and was thinking that it looks better than my living room!


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## VickiC (Aug 23, 2010)

*NYEric*

nope...just plain treated wood, no finish. If it were finished, it would look better than MY living room, too. 





NYEric said:


> I thought that was a finished floor too and was thinking that it looks better than my living room!


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Aug 23, 2010)

Vicki- I may be in NYC, but I have the same critters. Squirrels are rampant, and I have several knock-downs a season, not to mention the occasional nibbled flower bud. Then there are the raccoons...my pepper plants were knocked off the deck by something much larger than a squirrel. But I just pick them up and repot...the outdoors time is too valuable to be deterred by the risks.


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## VickiC (Aug 25, 2010)

*Eric Muelbauer*

Hi Eric,
We enjoy watching the squirrels in the trees and running around in the wooded area around our house, but when they get in the "lawn zone", they're fair game. If one of our cats doesn't grab one, then another cat will.  I think they're cute, as well as chipmunks, but I've seen what they can do....damage-wise. 

The raccoons are regular visitors here every night....they like to drop by and eat the remainder of the catfood on our open back porch. I hate that!! We try and try, but can't figure out what to do to keep them away and keep our cats fed at the same time. I don't think a shotgun is the answer. I can only imagine what the neighbors would think.  lol Besides being dangerous, have you ever seen a raccoon fight with other raccoons...even their babies (I bet you have)? They reek havod over the food dish....and the water. When this happens, some things on the porch get demolished, so that would probably include orchids at some point. 

I won't even go into the subject of 'possums' (opossums, to some people)...they are naaaassssssty!! And the occassional armadillo. Geez. 

So, you wanna move to Bama, eh?! 

Anyway, your point is well taken. I guess I didn't realize that they can be pests to you up there, too....so I feel your pain. 
Vicki





Eric Muehlbauer said:


> Vicki- I may be in NYC, but I have the same critters. Squirrels are rampant, and I have several knock-downs a season, not to mention the occasional nibbled flower bud. Then there are the raccoons...my pepper plants were knocked off the deck by something much larger than a squirrel. But I just pick them up and repot...the outdoors time is too valuable to be deterred by the risks.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Aug 25, 2010)

Well, no armadillos here...but plenty of possums. And I have seen a raccoon fight. Not here, but at my summer place on LI. Came home from fishing one night after dark to hear this incredible crashing in the woods...sounded massive. I was sure it was a deer...then I heard the most godawful screaming, and scrabbling up the tree. Ran in to get my flashlight...looked up at the tree, to see a completely unremarkable, smallish raccoon staring down at me....
My cats aren't allowed outside...well, my Maine coon isn't. Our mutt cat is allowed out for short daytime excursions, restricted to our yard....no staying out long and definitely not after dark! No outdoor food....if he wants to eat, he'd better stay inside.


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## VickiC (Aug 25, 2010)

*Eric Muehlbauer*

Maine coon?!?! You've got a Maine coon?!? Awesome!!! They are so cool!!! I've never seen one....only pictures! I know this is not orchid related and maybe out of line, but if it's not asking too much, would you please post a picture if you have one? Maybe a PM to me...or via my private e-mail? 
[email protected] 

Thanks for sharing your story. Raccoon fights sound fierce...I agree. Oh, by the way, there aren't many armadillos around....every once in a while I see one. You may know....they migrated from Mexico. 
Vicki




Eric Muehlbauer said:


> Well, no armadillos here...but plenty of possums. And I have seen a raccoon fight. Not here, but at my summer place on LI. Came home from fishing one night after dark to hear this incredible crashing in the woods...sounded massive. I was sure it was a deer...then I heard the most godawful screaming, and scrabbling up the tree. Ran in to get my flashlight...looked up at the tree, to see a completely unremarkable, smallish raccoon staring down at me....
> My cats aren't allowed outside...well, my Maine coon isn't. Our mutt cat is allowed out for short daytime excursions, restricted to our yard....no staying out long and definitely not after dark! No outdoor food....if he wants to eat, he'd better stay inside.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Aug 26, 2010)

Here's a picture of her....her name's Norkel. I remember seeing lots of armadillos on a college trip to Florida. Unfortunately, none were alive.....lots of roadkill.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## VickiC (Aug 26, 2010)

*Eric Muehlbauer*

Norkel is beautiful! What size is she? I understand that they are large for a domesticated cat! Very pretty cats from pictures I have seen. I saw a picture sometime back (via e-mail I think) of what someone said was a Maine coon. That cat was (using your word) massive! Huge! I actually thought the photo might be touched up. ???

My husband and I are cat lovers, so we have Nick, Orville and Maggie ouside. Rodney is also retired (32 yrs. military) and has a Harley motorcycle shop next to our house....his thing is the Dyno. Anyway, I'm sorry that I got sidetracked. I was starting to tell you that Rodney has a shop cat (lives in and out...basically where he wants to). His name is Max. Max is a cool bike-guys cat....all the guys call him 'Max the Man'.....they like him a lot. lol I think he must have some bobcat (or something wild) somewhere back in his bloodline....looks and personality. We only have one prissy, long-haired female kitty inside....her name is Lucy. 

Thanks for posting Norkel's picture! She's a pretty girl! 

Oh, by the way, many of the armidillo down here are roadkill, as well. Not all, though. 

Thanks again,
Vicki







Eric Muehlbauer said:


> Here's a picture of her....her name's Norkel. I remember seeing lots of armadillos on a college trip to Florida. Unfortunately, none were alive.....lots of roadkill.
> 
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Aug 26, 2010)

Yes, she is big! Massive....but very low slung...coons have short legs. She's also very spoiled and whiny...a real kvetch. But we all love her......


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