# Dendrobium cruentum



## Berrak (Mar 30, 2008)

Ever since I saw this flower in a book some years ago I wanted to get one.
So last summer when Herman te Borch (Botanische Orchideen) visited Stockholm last summer there was one cruentum standing there.
It had 2 new growths.

I grabbed it directly. I knew it should have warm culture and shady conditions. 

But watering ? I found different reccomendations.

1. Should not be dried out.
2. Should be dried out during the winter but not more than 2-3 days.
3. In order to get good flowering a prolonged dried period is needed.

It grew well under florescent tubes and in decemer the growth was compleated. I the put it on a 2 months rest period. I just gave it a mist every morning and evening. When the buds came I started to water again.

It has 4 flowers and possibly some mor comming.


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## rdlsreno (Mar 30, 2008)

Nice!!


Ramon


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## biothanasis (Mar 30, 2008)

It is fantastic... I would like one...!!! The red parts seem as though they are eatable... Strawberry flavored... Well done...


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## goldenrose (Mar 30, 2008)

:clap::clap: WELL DONE!!! Very nice!


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## JeanLux (Mar 30, 2008)

very nice flowers, and nice atmosphere captured in your pict. (I have quite some plants of Herman ter Borch, too) Jean


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## Rick (Mar 30, 2008)

Very nice flowers Berrak:clap:


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## Ron-NY (Mar 30, 2008)

looking at Baker and Baker's book This one does not get rested. Growing temps are maintained all year. In it's habitat, rainfall is reduced for 3-4 months in the winter. So cultivated plants should dry between waterings but they should not dry for extended periods.


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## Park Bear (Mar 30, 2008)

wonderful!


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## Berrak (May 1, 2008)

Ron-NY said:


> looking at Baker and Baker's book This one does not get rested. Growing temps are maintained all year. In it's habitat, rainfall is reduced for 3-4 months in the winter. So cultivated plants should dry between waterings but they should not dry for extended periods.



Well - I will have 7 flowers more soon. And 3 from one node that is the max
Even though I did not water I sprayed it morning and evening.


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## Roth (May 1, 2008)

I do not think at all that it is a cruentum... How many lamellae are there on the labellum ? 5 ? Do you have a complete picture of the plant ? I would even think about suzukii. If so, congrats...

Cruentum is a now very, very rare species. I have seen few wild collected plants of genuine cruentum from Thailand, I still have some with me ( pre appI plants...), but I find suzukii more appealing actually. I will post pics of my suzukii in the coming days, I have several in bloom.


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## Berrak (May 1, 2008)

Yes 5 lamella. Thanks if you can identify it.


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## Roth (May 1, 2008)

Berrak said:


> Yes 5 lamella. Thanks if you can identify it.



So it is for sure dendrobium suzukii. At a time, den suzukii were exported from Viet Nam under the name of cruentum Viet Nam.

As far as I know, suzukii is definitely a genuine species, coming from Bao Loc amongst other places. The plant habit is very, very close to dendro tobaense as well, but clearly it has nothing to do with dendrobium Peng Seng as previously claimed on some websites. Some native collectors from minorities come up from time to time with a few plants, and nowadays it is a very rare species in Viet Nam ( too many have been exported of that one).


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## Ron-NY (May 1, 2008)

a beautiful species, congrats on blooming it with confusing cultural info!

With this species, spring through autumn plant should be evenly moist with water reduced in winter. With higher light in winter. This is based on Baker and Baker cultural info


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## Berrak (May 1, 2008)

Sanderianum said:


> So it is for sure dendrobium suzukii. At a time, den suzukii were exported from Viet Nam under the name of cruentum Viet Nam.
> 
> As far as I know, suzukii is definitely a genuine species, coming from Bao Loc amongst other places. The plant habit is very, very close to dendro tobaense as well, but clearly it has nothing to do with dendrobium Peng Seng as previously claimed on some websites. Some native collectors from minorities come up from time to time with a few plants, and nowadays it is a very rare species in Viet Nam ( too many have been exported of that one).



Thanks a lot. So the 2 most expensive i bought last year was wrongly labeled


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## Roth (May 1, 2008)

Note that suzukii grows with very, very warm conditions for several months. In winter the temperature drops only very slightly, the same stands true for cruentum... tobaense has 2 variants apparently, one cooler growing than the other one, and ayubii is warm growing too.


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## Berrak (May 2, 2008)

Thank you once again - I found a german article with pictures who shows what you asked me :the lamellas 

The link is (language is German):

http://www.orchideen-journal.de/pdf/artikel2_2004.pdf


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## Hien (May 2, 2008)

Berrak said:


> Thanks a lot. So the 2 most expensive i bought last year was wrongly labeled


 Congratulation. Very beautiful flowers.
You should be happy that your plants turn out to be suzuki.
(it is harder to find)
I love all 3 species. tobaense, cruentum & suzuki, but so far I only manage to find a tiny tobaense.


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## Roth (May 2, 2008)

The main problem with those species, once again, is that there are 4 species total, tobaense, ayubii (definitely different), cruentum, and suzukii. Those 4 species have been bred already together like crazy, F2 are already blooming ( and the F1 of tobaense have not yet bloom anywhere commercially...) because of the hybrid vigor, and they will be very hard to tell apart. The plant from Botorch is definitely a genuine suzukii because you bought it last year, but from this year onwards, nothing will be sure, and only the wild plant can be assumed to be real species. There are already Peng Seng ( toba x cruentum) x suzukii, Peng Seng x suzukii and a few dozen other crosses offered worldwide by Chung Hua Orchids, blooming size. They for sure will be mixed, because a blooming size Peng Seng x suzukii is sold wholesale blooming size at 4$, a genuine suzukii this year, in Viet Nam, is 7$ minimum...

One more note about those nigrohirsute dendrobium coming from the wild ( and that applies to several species in other groups, such as aurantiflammeum, cinnabarinum). They have an embedded sickness in their rhizome in the wild, for about half of all the plants. The base of the canes is yellow-orange. In the wild, it does not disturb the plant that much, but in cultivation it accounts for the wrong reputation of many of those species to be "impossible to grow". When you buy a dendrobium plant, always watch the base of all the pseudobulbs. If the base is yellow or orange, even if the top of the canes has beautiful leaves, it is better to stay away. It might be "natural" or most likely it might be that sickness... The plant will then fail to establish, and shrink, shrink, to eventually die. There are chemicals to treat that, but they are definitely not registered for plant use, and it is best not to use them to avoid resistance in the future.


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## Hien (May 3, 2008)

I bought this from Dowery orchids in 2006,
I do not see tobaense on their catalog any more.
It is true like Sanderianum mentioned, the blooming cane dies right away, then the plant get smaller.


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## Berrak (May 3, 2008)

Nice Hien

Here is a snapshot of the whole plant. I can see no yellow or orange.


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## paphioboy (May 5, 2008)

Can anyone please identify this for me? I bought it as cruentum also... The whole plant is pretty small, only about 6 inches tall at first blooming... these pics were taken during its last blooming. sorry i don't have bigger pics at the moment... Thanks!


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## Roth (May 5, 2008)

Berrak, very nice plant...

Paphioboy, your plant is a mericlone made by Doi Tung in Thailand of one of their good quality cruentum.


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## paphioboy (May 5, 2008)

Thanks, Sanderianum... I'm amazed that you can identify the orgin of my plant by just looking at it...


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## Roth (May 5, 2008)

paphioboy said:


> Thanks, Sanderianum... I'm amazed that you can identify the orgin of my plant by just looking at it...



Not that difficult, there are not that many real cruentum available in Thailand or Malaysia at present time, and only 2 sources, one from the wild, with different type lips, or the ones from Doi Tung, mericlone of a single plant that has the very same flower. I would not trust any other sources at the moment actually ( Thais have done too many hybrids and backcrossing).


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## Hien (May 23, 2008)

Sanderianum said:


> Not that difficult, there are not that many real cruentum available in Thailand or Malaysia at present time, and only 2 sources, one from the wild, with different type lips, or the ones from Doi Tung, mericlone of a single plant that has the very same flower. I would not trust any other sources at the moment actually ( Thais have done too many hybrids and backcrossing).



It is a shame that peoples mix-up things so much (specially if it is done purposedly for financial benefit)

here is the link to a nice picture of suzuki.
http://www.aospacificcentral.org/OakSept2004/suzukii.html
and a link to the description that sounds very much like what Sanderianum is talking about
http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/article/200219/000020021902A0611559.php
and a very nice picture of tobaense
http://www.aospacificcentral.org/SFNov2004/dentobaense.html


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## paphioboy (May 23, 2008)

Thanks, Hien.. Whoa..!! Tobaense has such a funky flower...


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