# The age of a Cypripedium stand



## Dokmai Garden (Apr 9, 2011)

Dear friends,

Would anyone know the age of a certain Cypripedium stand? I know there are stads that have been visited over generations by botany students, and I am just curious how old an individual root system can become.

Cheers, Eric Danell, Dokmai Garden


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## SlipperKing (Apr 9, 2011)

Nice website


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## Dido (Apr 9, 2011)

No Idea, if there is no collector around maybe more than 100 year. 

Hear from a lot of people, that some think arientum is a short living one. 

But the rest could get really old I think. 

My oldest I gaught bloom size is now 15 years in my garden


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## cnycharles (Apr 10, 2011)

Dido said:


> No Idea, if there is no collector around maybe more than 100 year.
> 
> Hear from a lot of people, that some think arientum is a short living one.
> 
> ...



so far i've never seen any clumps of arietinum, just populations of scattered plants so that would seem to support the guess that it doesn't age well


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## koshki (Apr 10, 2011)

LOL, I thought this thread was about someone selling cyps at a roadside stand!


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## Dokmai Garden (Apr 10, 2011)

*One of the oldest known Cypripedium stands is over 40 years*

Being situated in Thailand I do not have access to all my precious literature, but I know for sure one stand of Cypripedium calceolus mentioned in Erik Almqvist's 'Flora Upsaliensis' from 1965. That makes that orchid individual over 40 years old, and I guess there are references inside indicating it is even older. 

I am rather interested in how long time different orchids stay fertile. Is it decades or centuries? Say that we propagate an endangered orchid using cloning. It becomes extinct in nature, but we still try to restore its habitat and put it back. If we keep an orchid in a garden or nursery for too long, it may, theoretically, lose reproduction abilities due to mutations. Even if it is still making flowers and seeds, theoretically the viability of the seeds may be poor. To know what time spans we are dealing with, I am curious to know about recorded examples from nature, or from botanical garden collections. I am not interested in a site, which could be colonized by new orchid generations, but I am interested in the age of individual orchids.

As to Southeast Asia, continuous botanical studies did not begin until the 1950's, with the exception of Singapore botanic gardens. Unfortunately many original documents have disappeared there due to insects and the Japanese invasion, so I guess we have to rely on European orchids and botanic gardens for a few suggestions.

Cheers, Eric Danell, www.dokmaigarden.co.th/orchidark.php


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## Dokmai Garden (Apr 10, 2011)

Yes, it is tricky to ascertain age. An orchid like Epipogium may grow continuously in one direction, or over decades slither around, but we never see more than a few flowering stalks. Age does not have to result in a thick stand. Only by carefully documenting a certain individual, we should know for sure.

Eric


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## KyushuCalanthe (Apr 11, 2011)

Eric, depending on the local conditions Cyp colonies can very likely last hundreds of years, particularly if there are factors that keep ecological variables fairly constant (for example fire). From what I've seen (very limited) many Cyps like to colonize disturbed sites such as mines and road cuts which are in a state of rapid change. Such stands are likely to expand quickly and then have a serious population crash a few decades later unless some factor maintains the situation. Most often light is the limiting factor.

There is a fair amount of research showing that fire and herbivory play important roles in many cases, and the removal of ground level vegetation (including new tree saplings) can extend the life of a particular orchid colony, or revive ones in decline. While individual plants can be set back or even killed by such disturbance, more often these are a benefit. I would love to know how many _C. tibeticum_ are eaten each year by yaks for instance! Many terrestrial orchids can in fact go dormant for years on end (_Isotria_ and _Triphora_ are especially good examples). The theory is they are "waiting" for better conditions to grow, flower, and hopefully reproduce. This ability alone potentially extends the age of colony.

You also have to imagine that in most cases Cyps take a long time to mature, especially in nature - I'd guess no less than 6-8 years for really good conditions and perhaps decades in the worst. One way you can estimate age is by looking at the rhizome - if it is long with lots of internodes you know the plant is old - possibly decades old. That BTW is a good indication if your plant is wild collected or not since most Cyps haven't been in propagated long enough artificially to create really long rhizomes - not yet at any rate.


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## fundulopanchax (Apr 11, 2011)

Certainly an interesting question. There are a number of specimens in cultivation that are 100 years old and even a bit older. In nature I suspect that such might also happen if there is fire from time to time to keep the canopy in check.

Ron


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