# BEWARE!!!! This is a rant on the orchid business



## Gcroz (Aug 27, 2008)

READ NO FURTHER IF YOU HAVE A SENSITIVE NATURE

Alright, this will be my first rant. I'm not very good at it, but I need the release.

Last Friday I encountered my first complainer. By happenstance this complainer probably cost me a sale since the customer went running after the complaint was lodged. Anyhow, we sold a Miltoniopsis hybrid to a customer 6 weeks ago, and she was complaining that the plant was about to go to the Great Cloud Forest in the Sky. By talking to her, I found out she was giving the plant an ice cube every other week. YES, thats right, "every other week." I mentioned to her that when we sold her the plant, insturctions to the contrary were included. But, "I have a friend who said the instructions were wrong. Orchids don't like much water (paraphrased)."

When I pointed out that she needed to water the plant more frequently, specifically follow the directions given, she got angry and told my I had no idea how to raise orchids.

As some of you may know, my specialty is Cattleyas. I was mentored by both Chadwicks, and now I'm venturing into slipper territory (hence the "dumb" questions I've been accused of). But, besides that, I also know that Milts like more water than 1 ice cube every other week. I also know where those instructions come from (shame on you big box stores).

To end the rant, I implore all of you, the next time you hear the "ice cube trick" dispensed by someone, please correct them. In this economy, us growers, hobby and pros alike, need to band together and make orchids easy for all. Otherwise, we can all enjoy playing "Nearer my God to Thee" as the ship sinks.

Rant over. PLEASE ADD COMMENTS OR YOUR RANTS HERE. It's very therapeutic!


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## Jon in SW Ohio (Aug 27, 2008)

If she can keep a Miltoniopsis alive for 6 weeks, she's almost got me beat lol


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## Gcroz (Aug 27, 2008)

(Orchid snobbery coming) We've found that Miltoniopsis are great in the house here. In fact most of the buyers are loving 3rd and 4th spikes! Must be the climate. 

But we all have to agree, these plants do need a little water!


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## Candace (Aug 27, 2008)

I used to work for Butterfly Orchids when they came to our show every year. I would help him unload all the plants on Fri., price them and stand on my feet from 8-6 Saturday and Sunday. It was hard, hard, hard work. I was in my 30's and Ernie, the owner was in his 70's. I had problems with an aching back from all the standing and I have no idea how he coped. I was sort of relieved when he retired from the biz, because it's such work! The profit margin is low, and the hours(counting travel time) are long. I'm glad I've been on the commercial side because it made me positive I would never want to be involved with shows and selling to the public like that. If I ever do go commercial it will be via website and appointment only. 

Sorry to hear about the disgruntled customer. Unfortunately you will have more. Many more. Mega Marts are taking over and many people today think they can return anything, anytime for their money back. Good luck keeping the blood pressure down.


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## SlipperFan (Aug 27, 2008)

I agree with Candace.

I'll never forget the time someone came into the greenhouse, in the dead of Michigan Winter, with some plants that looked terrible. When I touched them, they were ice cold, and starting to get mushy. Seems she brought them in the trunk of her car where they had been for several hours, and couldn't figure out why they looked so bad. Sigh.


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## practicallyostensible (Aug 27, 2008)

I work for a nursery, and when I encounter issues with difficult individuals I just whole hardheartedly agree and tell them that indeed, the customer is *always* right. This generally infuriates them, and pleases me.


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## Heather (Aug 27, 2008)

I love working shows with Glen (Decker) but I don't know how he does it every weekend, plus speaking and all the nuts out there bugging him on the phone. And yet he is always nice and polite and friendly to people. I remember the first show I met him at, I just hung around listening to him help educate people. Tough job for sure.


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## Gcroz (Aug 27, 2008)

hmmm, sounds like you might be partial to my competition Administratrix! tsk tsk. 

IMHO, the customer is usually wrong. that is until they prove otherwise. (Thats only when i'm in a bad mood of course.)


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## Yoyo_Jo (Aug 27, 2008)

I sympathize entirely; nothing like a wacky retail customer to spoil one's passion for something. My hubby learned the hard way; he loves motorcycling, loves Harleys, and made the mistake of working at an HD dealership for a very short time - dealing with customers drove him nuts.


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## Heather (Aug 27, 2008)

Gcroz said:


> hmmm, sounds like you might be partial to my competition Administratrix! tsk tsk.



Oh, you know I love you George, I just don't grow Catts or Milts. (Actually, as I recall, I have a tendency to throw your Cattleyas around and misplace your Milts!) :rollhappy:

The job I learned the most about customer service at was managing a Williams-Sonoma store. Retail in general is tough - lots of smiling and nodding involved.


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## MoreWater (Aug 28, 2008)

I helped with plant sales for 30 mins and I won't ever be doing it again! Argh! There's a reason I'm not in the smiling business!!!!


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## John M (Aug 28, 2008)

I'm really sorry to learn about your stress filled customer troubles. However, it is par for the course. Retail sucks. Lots of customers are great to deal with; but, it takes way fewer crappy ones to totally ruin your day. Some are dishonest and some are like that woman you dealt with....they're idiots! As soon as she told you that her "friend said...", you should've told her "Then take your complaint to your friend. You didn't follow my instructions, you followed hers...and now your plant's dying. What does that tell you about your friends advice?" Man! I hate retail!  I've worked as a waiter, a Maitre 'D, a commercial orchid grower at a retail nursery and as a retail grower for myself. People like that woman are the reason why I'm only wholesale now. I realized that one day....I was gonna smack somebody, or worse. It was time to get out of that environment.

As a hobbyist and a commercial grower, I've bought plants. I've made mistakes and I've killed plants. I just accept my loss, I learn from my mistake and I try again, with improved culture. The people who will not accept responsibility for their own actions and decisions drive me nuts. I've told people that they should move on to plastic flowers and leave the live ones in the hands of someone capable. They go away in a big huff. Good! It is better if those types burden the competition instead and stop costing me money with their outrageous demand that I be responsible for their mistakes. 

Oh, what a wasp's nest of bad memories this thread has brought back for me! It is utterly astounding how totally daft some people can be. My favourite trick (SARCASM!), is when someone buys a plant one week and then a couple weeks later, returns the dead one that they bought a year ago....saying that it is the one that they just bought and they want a full refund. Grrrrrrrrr!


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## NYEric (Aug 28, 2008)

Heather said:


> and all the nuts out there bugging him on the phone. And yet he is always nice and polite and friendly to people.




First of all, I resemble that remark! And, I've had Glen call me a pest many a time, in a friendly way of course. 
I've been fortunate enough to have worked as a ski bum bussing tables in restaurants and as a maid cleaning rooms and learned about obnoxious customers. Plus I fortunately have an 'ex' that taught me the value of the Merck concept of the 'customer oriented sale'. :rollhappy: Sometimes you just have to shake your head and laugh inside at what people say and do!


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## goldenrose (Aug 28, 2008)

Jon in SW Ohio said:


> If she can keep a Miltoniopsis alive for 6 weeks, she's almost got me beat lol


:rollhappy::rollhappy: I'm with you Jon! I love waterfall miltonias but I can't grow them to save my sole!



John M said:


> .... As soon as she told you that her "friend said...", you should've told her "Then take your complaint to your friend. You didn't follow my instructions, you followed hers...and now your plant's dying. What does that tell you about your friends advice?"



EXACTLY!!!

I've always said in any business, as hard as you try, you will not please everyone! There's probably nothing you could have said that would satisfy this person. 

Hope you're feeling better George!


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## Hien (Aug 28, 2008)

John is right, 

This lady was wrong in not following your instruction. After all you raise the plant to perfection (that is why she bought it from you in the first place, because it looked so nice)
-I would be too embarrassed to ask for a refund/replacement no matter who is at fault. Most of the time I assume it is mine. There was an incidence years ago, I bought a lot of cattleyas from (if my memory is correct) from Mr. Norris of Orchid House, then some of them bloom out with virus streaks & crippled. I am pretty sure the infection is not from my collection because I just start collecting at the time (there was nothing in the collection to infect them). I never ask for refund, I do not order more from the source.
-I think the best thing, is always querry the customer about his/her environment, expertise, the species raised in current collection etc.. so you can guide them to the right/wise choice (be it phalaenopsis or cattleya). If they still like the plant that is not suitable, you can warn them ahead for difficulty.
-On the bill, specifically state what plant it is that you sell, so no one can bring in a different species/hybrid dead plant purchased a year ago from another seller and claim that is the one bought the previous week from your nursery.


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## slippertalker (Aug 28, 2008)

I've never heard of the icecube watering system, but I do have a couple of hundred Miltonopsis that love being watered copiously during the growing season. Depending on the weather in the summer, they get a daily spraying with water and hard watering every 2-3 days. 

Hopefully your customer has learned from experience that the icecube idea is not a good one!


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## Hien (Aug 28, 2008)

slippertalker said:


> I've never heard of the icecube watering system, but I do have a couple of hundred Miltonopsis that love being watered copiously during the growing season. Depending on the weather in the summer, they get a daily spraying with water and hard watering every 2-3 days.
> 
> Hopefully your customer has learned from experience that the icecube idea is not a good one!



Actually I heard about the ice cube trick for blooming cymbidium if you live in a hot weather zone. It may be just a myth.


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## NYEric (Aug 28, 2008)

slippertalker said:


> Miltonopsis that love being watered copiously during the growing season. Depending on the weather in the summer, they get a daily spraying with water and hard watering every 2-3 days.


WHAT!? [in best Little John imitation! :rollhappy:]
How come nobody ever told me about this!?


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## Heather (Aug 28, 2008)

NYEric said:


> How come nobody ever told me about this!?




Because you're a pest, Eric. :rollhappy:

For reference:


NYEric said:


> First of all, I resemble that remark! And, I've had Glen call me a pest many a time, in a friendly way of course.


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## SlipperFan (Aug 28, 2008)

Hien said:


> Actually I heard about the ice cube trick for blooming cymbidium if you live in a hot weather zone. It may be just a myth.


I've heard this, also, as a way to take Cymbidiums down temperature-wise so they will bloom. I don't know if it's true.


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## cnycharles (Aug 28, 2008)

Hien said:


> Actually I heard about the ice cube trick for blooming cymbidium if you live in a hot weather zone. It may be just a myth.



it's not a myth though maybe a measure of degrees. you can pour buckets of ice over them, they can take upstate ny snow for a while if the temps aren't too much below 30˚F, and they need the cold snap to get them to flower


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## dave b (Aug 29, 2008)

I dont have much experience in the orchid customer experience world, but ages ago i worked for a local aquarium shop. For years we held the hands of newbies explaining why their tank of toxic brew was killing the fish. I gave the lecture (kindly) on the Nitrogen Cycle and correct tank maintenance / cleaning a bazillion times. Some actually wanted to learn, and took advice to heart. Others eyes glazed over, and just wanted more fish. Then you always get the ones who already know it all. They've been raising fish for 15 years and...blah, blah, blah...some young whippersnapper behind the counter cant tell them crap. OK, fine. Here is your fish you bitter old lady/man, now go home (all under your breath while smiling of course).


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## Scott Ware (Aug 29, 2008)

Amen, dave b. I've been making a mental comparison between the orchid business and the aquarium business since this thread began. I operated an aquarium fish store for several years and was involved in the same customer education and handholding experiences you mention. The one thing that stunned me is how so many people insisted on spending hundreds of dollars on fish, but wouldn't ever consider spending $5-$10 on a book that would help them keep the fish alive and happy. Ask them to bring in a water sample and they would insist that it was unnecessary because, "Our water tastes fine." Then when they managed to kill a fish, it was always my fault from their point of view because I must not have told them everything they needed to know. There are many parallels where the orchid and aquarium worlds are involved.


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## Gcroz (Aug 29, 2008)

Scott Ware said:


> . There are many parallels where the orchid and aquarium worlds are involved.




I agree. Yes, it's true that when you educate a customer, many rarely listen. And just like you said, it's always the sellers fault that the plant/fish died. I hear the ice cube trick often, it seems that Home Depot employees give that info out. Now, when you try and correct it you get the glazed eye look. I've even been told I'm wrong on that subject.

Goodness, the fonts of wisdom at the Big Box stores sure have me beat!


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## Leo Schordje (Aug 29, 2008)

All in all, I have had pretty good luck. Part time in the orchid business for 16 years now, I have had only one bounced check/deadbeat customer and only a few customer satisfaction problems. 

One I feel bad about was a series of disasters trying to ship in cold weather to southern Louisiana. Mostly my fault, we could not get the timing down right. I did my best to make good, replacing the plants ordered twice. Yet in the end, I know the customer wasn't happy. 

It is a good thing I don't have to pay the mortgage with the hobby business, I have walked away from certain customers, because they struck me as being too high maintainance. But that does mean I have to get back to my sometimes miserable day job in the chemical industries. 

Leo


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## littlefrog (Aug 29, 2008)

I guess I'm asking for trouble, but I love selling orchids... Perhaps it is my personality. When I instruct I instruct... In teacher voice, sometimes, if I need to. It sometimes even works. What I don't really like is keeping my web-inventory up to date. It is just the last thing in the world I want to do. But selling at shows or in the greenhouse is fun.

I have a few difficult customers, but they are usually my best customers so I tolerate it. I can't remember anybody doing something really stupid and then trying to blame it on me. Or perhaps they did, and I just didn't notice? That would be a hoot.

I have had a few people who have told me plants haven't done well, and I often just give them another one even if it was their fault. Or at least a nice discount on the next one. It doesn't happen very often. I think most people are embarrassed to complain. Maybe it is a midwest thing. Usually if I replace a plant it results in high satisfaction and many repeat orders, so it is a win-win.

I've had a few boxes not make it for various reasons, usually the post office's fault. I expect it to happen sometimes, and I suspect it happens more often than I hear about (again, not everybody complains).


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## Ernie (Aug 29, 2008)

I'm with Rob and Leo. The good times make up for a few bad. Just part of the territory. I just try to do my best- no one can ask more than that. 

-Ernie


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## Paph_LdyMacBeth (Apr 21, 2009)

I wish the people I have been dealing with in my area were so helpful! 
I go to greenhouses looking for help/advice/info and usually the answer is "it grows like a phal." Since when did that become the standard for growing all orchids?!? ...and usually I know well enough to know it grows nothing like a phal...like my tolumnias who hate me with a passion because I didn't out until they were all wrinkled what they really need (this probably took less than a week)

I also had a situation where I was picking up some plants at a local show along with some extras & the guy who was running the booth said "Oh I'll get you some bigger plants than that, but I ended up going home with Oncidums with rotten pesudo bulbs and two plants that were completely different than what I had picked out! 

So customer services is important...even if you cant please everyone!


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## Greenpaph (Apr 21, 2009)

I volunteered work at the Boston Flower Show every year for 32 years with Victor DeRosa (DeRosa Orchids) and at his greenhouses in Natick many weeks per year. We both would give cultural advise to many customers through the years. There would be a few that would claim we were the cause of their orchids demise. However, (like Rob said) we would give them another one free or discount one. That always brought them back or satisfy them.
These few problems were outweighed 50 to 1 by the many satisfied customers that came back year to year and swore by our cultural advise and claimed that they were able to bloom their plants over and over! Then we would let them shine as we would ask them for their cultural advise!

I am glad that you could vent! However, no customer or orchid is worth getting that angry about! Enjoy them both and make them happy!


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## Bolero (Apr 22, 2009)

Of course the plant needs more than that. For someone to accuse you of knowing nothing about plants when they themselves have a limited knowledge is poor form to say the least.

It's ok to let it out, that's why we are here. I also know that the customer is not always right as the old saying would go.


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## NYEric (Apr 22, 2009)

Um, the saying here is "The customer is always right." Whether it's true or realistic I can't vouch for.


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## lipelgas (Apr 22, 2009)

well, I was helping to sell orchid at local orchid show this spring. must say, that people believed me when I told something. of course, most of them bought the simpliest ones - phalaenopsis's, but several of them even considered to go to "teach" their friends, because I said something else. I think, I'll do it next year again


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## NYEric (Apr 22, 2009)

Good, help spread the knowledge.


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