# Which one?



## SlipperFan (Nov 1, 2007)

These are both Paph. Friedrich von Hayek x fairrieanum. If you could pick just one for yourself, which one would you choose?







Or


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## suss16 (Nov 1, 2007)

Both


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## slippertalker (Nov 1, 2007)

I'll take door number 2...........


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## Heather (Nov 1, 2007)

Gorgeous! The second one. I like the fuller petals and the dorsal looks less pinched.


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## littlefrog (Nov 1, 2007)

If you put a gun to my head, number one. Gut reaction. I always tell people to go with their first instinct, so I should do it myself.

I don't know why. Perhaps it looks more like fairrieanum and I like fairrieanum. I like the petals better.


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## Persephone (Nov 1, 2007)

I like #1.


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## WolfDog1 (C. Williams) (Nov 1, 2007)

#2 for me too. 
I also like the wide petals. 
Both have nice color. 

Craig


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## Corbin (Nov 1, 2007)

I just think no. one has better lines


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## Candace (Nov 1, 2007)

I'd go with #2 as well.


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## myxodex (Nov 1, 2007)

#1 ditto Littlefrog


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## Marco (Nov 1, 2007)

i like the first one


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## goldenrose (Nov 1, 2007)

#2 color, size , proportion, bolder spotting.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Nov 1, 2007)

#2 for me....I prefer the dorsal of #1, but everything else on #2................Eric


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## gore42 (Nov 1, 2007)

I like the first one.

- Matt


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## Hien (Nov 1, 2007)

I like the 2nd one for the large petals width.
However, I will chose the first because the dorsal is less hovering over the pouch (the rain protection overhang is a feature I don't like)


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## jblanford (Nov 1, 2007)

#2 For me. Jim.


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## paphioboy (Nov 2, 2007)

can i have both, please? pretty please..?(",) ok ok... i choose no.2, but both are fabulous anyway..


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## Roy (Nov 2, 2007)

#2 for me. Bold, reasonable form, the wide petals. From a hybridists point of view, a better flower to work with. As a grower, #1 is too close to fairrieanum.


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## Grandma M (Nov 2, 2007)

# 2. I like the wide dorsal but I would be happy with either...or both.


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## NYEric (Nov 2, 2007)

I think N0.2 looks more robust!


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## eOrchids (Nov 2, 2007)

1st one.


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## toddybear (Nov 2, 2007)

Love both but I'd choose the first one.


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## GuRu (Nov 2, 2007)

If I had to choose I chose the first one - its more graceful and delicate. 

Best regards from Germany, GuRu


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## parvi_17 (Nov 2, 2007)

Number 2!


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## paphreek (Nov 2, 2007)

I'd go with no.1. It appears flatter. Both are nice.


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## myxodex (Nov 3, 2007)

dear ... oh ... dear ! ... #2 is in the lead by 13 votes to 10. 
OK ... OK , I know I can't vote twice ... but ... damn ... 
... #1 is sooo gorgeous ... 
... and no one said I can't indulge in a little propaganda rant 
on behalf of #1  Go on then, read the rules if don't believe me ...
... it's not there ... yup ! ... told you ... says zip about this 

After all, how negligent of me would it be to sit on my hands and do nothing when quite clearly there are poor suffering souls :sob: to be saved from the tyranny of measurement :evil: and the shackles of formulaic aesthetics. 

If you were thinking of voting for #2 ... don't ... pause for moment and think about the following. Look at the lack of color co-ordination between pouch and dorsal on #2 ... do you really want this on your conscience for the rest of life  . Now look at number one, cast your eye up from the bottom of the pouch ... following the contour you will see how perfectly it leads onto the contour of the dorsal on both sides ... and how the stance of the petals compliments this form ... pure elegance ! So go on ! ... do the right thing ... follow the path to enlightenment ... and join us #1 voters on a higher plane of aesthetic awareness oke:

Cheers,
Tim


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## goldenrose (Nov 3, 2007)

:rollhappy::rollhappy: to funny Tim! Actually I thought #1 had taken over ..... 
*so #2's ban together!!! :clap::clap:I think Tim has different color on his screen or it's his eyesight or both!!!*
Dot - look what you started - did you ever think it would lead to this?


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## Gilda (Nov 3, 2007)

#2...petals, spotting , halo ,bigger pouch ......beautiful ! :clap:


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## Mrs. Paph (Nov 3, 2007)

I have to go with number 1, I really like the petals on number 2, but I don't care for the pouch on 2.


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## SlipperFan (Nov 3, 2007)

goldenrose said:


> Dot - look what you started - did you ever think it would lead to this?


This is great!:clap:

Here's the story: Porter's Orchids got a batch of Paph. hybrids in bud a couple of weeks ago. I happened to be there volunteering when they came in, so I helped unpack them. I saw these two fairrieanum crosses, and noted them to Bill Porter. We decided to set them aside to see how they would look when in flower. When I came back a week later, they were both open. I asked Bill which one he liked best, and he said #2. That was great, because I was attracted to #1. The reasoning for both of us was pretty much what everyone has posted. He said we should put them both in the next show if they are still open, and see what the judges thought. I said I'd put their photos up on Slippertalk and see what everyone here thought.

I'm actually pretty amazed that the choices are so close. I thought the vast majority would choose #2 because of it's size and roundness. The essential reason I chose #1 is the fairrieanum influence, which is what caught my eye in the first place. I'd have been happy with either one, but am pleased that #1 is in my collection, and #2 is in Bill's.

Thanks everyone! This has been a really fun thread for me, and I hope you've enjoyed it also.


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## Persephone (Nov 3, 2007)

So.....?
Did you do the math?
Who won the beauty contest here?
I guess I could scroll back and count, but I'm way too lazy.


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## goldenrose (Nov 4, 2007)

if we go from myxodex count, because I, too, am too lazy to scroll back - it looks like #1 - 12, #2 -14.


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## SlipperFan (Nov 4, 2007)

Persephone said:


> So.....?
> Did you do the math?
> Who won the beauty contest here?
> I guess I could scroll back and count, but I'm way too lazy.



By my tally, it's a tie: 13:13.


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## NYEric (Nov 5, 2007)

Were they judged?


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## goldenrose (Nov 5, 2007)

NYEric said:


> Were they judged?



Yes - by us - see what you miss when you're in FL!


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## SlipperFan (Nov 6, 2007)

NYEric said:


> Were they judged?


The next show in this area is over Thanksgiving weekend. I'll let you know, if they are still open, what happens.


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## biothanasis (Nov 6, 2007)

I like them both but mostly the second one because of better colour patern...


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## SlipperFan (Nov 28, 2007)

I promised to let everyone know what happened:

Bill and I both took our plants to the Saginaw Valley Orchid Society Show Thanksgiving weekend. Guess what! Both were given blue ribbons -- so it looks like the judges were torn between the two, also!

And another interesting thing: someone else also had one of these at the show, and it's my understanding that it also got a blue ribbon!
All 3 flowers were pulled for AOS judging, but they were all 'passed."

So there you have it. Personal preference!

By the way, I learned before taking the plant to the show that it has been named: Fair Fred.


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## rdlsreno (Nov 28, 2007)

slippertalker said:


> I'll take door number 2...........



I agree!!!

Ramon


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## TheLorax (Nov 29, 2007)

#1 but I can't quite put my finger on why.


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## littlefrog (Nov 29, 2007)

I was on the team that was giving those ribbons, Dot. I thought it was kind of funny that we couldn't agree on the best one as a team, either. Split right down the middle. The third Fair Fred didn't get a blue, it got a second, I believe. I did suggest we pull them all since they were all nice, to judge them as a group. I didn't do the AOS judging, don't know what the comments were.

Rob


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## TheLorax (Nov 29, 2007)

Silly question but when a situation such as what you described occurs, would there be anything so wrong with awarding both with best knocking out second? Even in soccer ties are allowed so why not with orchids?


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## littlefrog (Nov 29, 2007)

For ribbon judging? There aren't any rules that restrict us from giving the ribbons we think are appropriate. We don't need to award to three places (sometimes we just give a third or second, no first), or we can do more. We usually stick to three places, but not always. I suppose we could have bumped the third Fair Fred to third, but it was really nice too.

In green complex paphs we awarded two firsts, two seconds, and a third. But that was apples and oranges, since we had some very nice Maudiae types (old ones, like 'The Queen' and Claire de Lune 'Edgar Van Belle') in perfect condition, and some absolutely huge complex greens. In my mind at that point it is almost like dividing the class in half, awarding one set of ribbons to maudiae types and one to complex. 

Yes, we are just pushing off the decision sometimes. When we go to award the best Paph trophy we would have to go back and look at all the firsts and might need to break the ties. That can be painful. But often, we don't have to worry about it, usually our trophy plant is in a class it clearly dominated.

Other shows might do it differently. Ribbon judging is really a function of the show, not the AOS. We go by the show rules. Most of the shows I judge follow the same basic ribbon rules, but I'm sure other regions do different things.


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## NYEric (Nov 29, 2007)

I think it's funny that we're also split.


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## TheLorax (Nov 29, 2007)

I know what it is, the color of the second one seems disconcerting. Almost as if it is mismatched even though the petals are real nice. The first one seems more pleasing to the eye from a color standpoint. 

It's kind of nice to know that when giving out ribbons there can be a tie, particularly when a situation such as this occurs.


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## SlipperFan (Nov 29, 2007)

Thanks, Rob. I was hoping you'd weigh in. 

This whole issue was fun, and enlightening.


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