# Cypripedium potting media



## greenthumbguru (Sep 30, 2011)

I am using a 50/50 mix of Turface and Soil Perfector for my Cyps. Now I may be worrying too much, but I just want to make sure I'm not making life for my Cyp's difficult. The Turface, now that it has settled in the pots, has a very stiff - almost cement like texture. Unlike sand which gives easily when you push your finger into it, the Turface is like hard ground. I have to twist my finger into it just to get it to give a little. This distressed me a little, thinking that come spring, the new growth would stress itself trying to break the surface and just die off, never seeing the light of day. I re-potted everything, this time mixing in some perlite in hopes that it would help 'loosen' the soil a little. It's been about a week and the texture of the soil hasn't changed very much. Is this 'stiffness' normal for Turface and is it OK to just leave the Cyp's well enough alone? I guess I'm use to the light, airy mix of normal potting soil. Any input would be appreciated!

Thanks in advance!!


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## tocarmar (Oct 1, 2011)

With me I also use tuface/ soil perfector, but I also mix in some light potting soil/compost depending on species & size/maturity of the plants. I will use either pine duft (acid lover acule) or oak leaves mix (parvi var. pubescense). Perlite should help it, But I found that it is very light & floats to the top. I planted a few in the ground this year to see how they do here, using a mix of the above. Using just the tuface/SP you also have to water more frequently.


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## cnycharles (Oct 2, 2011)

I was told to pot the ram's head when it comes out of the frig next year into a mix of turface and perlite; what is this soil perfector? he also said to use a tiny bit of organic media to help it along until it starts up, but just a tiny amount so that it doesn't encourage rot. what would be a good o.m. to use?


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## tocarmar (Oct 2, 2011)

cnycharles said:


> I was told to pot the ram's head when it comes out of the frig next year into a mix of turface and perlite; what is this soil perfector? he also said to use a tiny bit of organic media to help it along until it starts up, but just a tiny amount so that it doesn't encourage rot. what would be a good o.m. to use?




If I remeber correctly they are not an acid lover so I would use some leaf mulch. If you have a good wooded area you can dig alittle of the topsoil from there to use in the mix. Beign that they are seedlings I would use very little in the mix, as you can get 4-5 seedlings in a 5" deep pot.
Soil Perfector looks like rocks.. It is a natural soil conditioner.

http://www.google.com/products/cata...sa=X&ei=yQ2JTqPFKsqctwfrkpQu&ved=0CDgQ8wIwAA#


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## greenthumbguru (Oct 3, 2011)

Thanks Tom!
I might try that - anything to loosen the potting media. I wanted to try growing some Cyps in a non-organic potting media. Some say that it's better for the plants because you don't have to disturb the plants as often or re-pot because the media doesn't break down as organic media does. Thing is, when you observe plants in their native habitat, the soil is very light and arid - composed mainly of leaf / pine mulch which the new growth easily pushes through in the spring. I may need to lean more tword a 30/70 mix with more Soil Perfector to keep the mix more arid. I agree with you about the Perlite, but I usually 'dust' off any perlite on the surface. After a few waterings I repeat the dusting and eventually the only perlite left is what is under the surface with only the Turface and Soil Perfector remaining on the top 1/8" of the soil. The perlite remains around the plant roots where it does what it needs to do - retain and slowly release moisture and nutrients.


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## tocarmar (Oct 3, 2011)

What Cyps are you growing? You will have to give it a try. You can also ask Ron (here on forum) from Gardens at Post Hill in vendor section. Before I got the turface/ soil protector I was using small size diatomite & that seems to work well too.


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## greenthumbguru (Oct 3, 2011)

Hey Tom,
Thanks for your quick reply. Ron is the person who recommended the mix. I private messaged him about the issue. He grows just about everything he has in the Turface/Soil Perfector mix. However, I never recieved a reply so I posted in the Forum. At the moment I'm growing Cyp. Acaule and Pubescens. Both seem to be doing well - especially the ones I have growing in the all organic media. When I repotted the plants in the inorganic media, the dormant plants were all alive and seemed to be OK. I just wanted to see if those who use the Turface and Soil Perfector mix had the same 'hard' texture that I had. I figured if they did, then I was just concerned for no reason and that the plants will pop up this spring without any problems. But if their mix wasn't 'hard' or exessively firm then I need to do something to loosen the mix. I tried to explain what I meant by 'hard'. When I attempt to dig my finger into the pot it won't penetrate unless I twist my finger and push - unlike when one would push their finger into sand - it gives fairly easily with no need to twist. What I was hoping for is some explanation of what the ideal soil texture should be when using Turface and Soil Perfector.


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## tocarmar (Oct 4, 2011)

Being that you have those 2, 1 acid lover Acaule, & Pubescens no acid I would mix in some organic leaf matter & soil for each, or at least put it on the top for the winter so you don't disturb the roots anymore. Acaule does not like to be disturbed. All mine are getting ready to go dormant just afew with some green on them. He is probably very busy now sending out fall orders.


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## Linus_Cello (Oct 4, 2011)

Just to be clear, are you using this mix only for outdoor planting, or both outdoor and pots? Ron sells two different mixes (one for outdoor, one for pots: gardensatposthill.com/website/StoreSupplies.htm). I've been planting mine in pots (Gisela and Ula Silkens). I'm going to try some this fall in the ground.

This summer was really dry and hot. Does anyone use anything to help keep their potted cyps moist besides leaf mulch and spaghnum moss?

If anyone is in the DC area, come to the National Capital Orchid Society show this weekend (Columbus Day weekend). As for Cyps, Roberts Flowers, OH (orchidmix.com) will be there (hopefully he can answer my questions on potted cyps, and improving moisture retention).


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## Kavanaru (Oct 4, 2011)

as for soil perfector, wouldn't LECA or Lava Rock be a good substitute?


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## tocarmar (Oct 4, 2011)

Linus_Cello said:


> Just to be clear, are you using this mix only for outdoor planting, or both outdoor and pots? Ron sells two different mixes (one for outdoor, one for pots: gardensatposthill.com/website/StoreSupplies.htm). I've been planting mine in pots (Gisela and Ula Silkens). I'm going to try some this fall in the ground.
> 
> This summer was really dry and hot. Does anyone use anything to help keep their potted cyps moist besides leaf mulch and spaghnum moss?
> 
> If anyone is in the DC area, come to the National Capital Orchid Society show this weekend (Columbus Day weekend). As for Cyps, Roberts Flowers, OH (orchidmix.com) will be there (hopefully he can answer my questions on potted cyps, and improving moisture retention).



I use it both in ground & in pots.


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## tocarmar (Oct 4, 2011)

Kavanaru said:


> as for soil perfector, wouldn't LECA or Lava Rock be a good substitute?



I would say yes you can substitute them as long as they are small size..


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## greenthumbguru (Oct 4, 2011)

Hello Linus,
All my Cyps are outside and I've got mine in pots. The organic media I use is a peat moss/sand/perlite mix that I layer with leaf mulch (much like it would occur in nature as leaves fall and slowly decay) and they seem to love it. For my Cyp Acaule's I throw in mulched pine needles. I water sparingly and only when needed as it doesn't rain weekly here. I wanted to try Ron's approach and see how well a inorganic media would do in my situation (Zone 7). Thing is, my organic mix is very light and airy as opposed to the firm texture of the inorganic media. That's where my concern lies. I'm trying to find out if I've got my mix ratio correct. 
Kavanaru, I'm not sure if Soil Perfector has any moisture retentive abilities as perlite does, but I see no difference (other than a possible PH variance) using Lava Rock in place of Soil Perfector. Perhaps Linus, if he's going to the DC Orchid show, could ask Robert Flowers our questions and concerns and post his replies. That is if it's not too much trouble.


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## Linus_Cello (Oct 5, 2011)

greenthumbguru said:


> Hello Linus,
> Perhaps Linus, if he's going to the DC Orchid show, could ask Robert Flowers our questions and concerns and post his replies. That is if it's not too much trouble.




Sure. Just to be clear, can you re-type your question, so I don't mangle your question? (Are you asking about the 50/50 ratio with Turface, or what you can add to the mixture to make the media not too firm?)


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## greenthumbguru (Oct 6, 2011)

*Turface and Soil Perfector mix*



Linus_Cello said:


> Sure. Just to be clear, can you re-type your question, so I don't mangle your question? (Are you asking about the 50/50 ratio with Turface, or what you can add to the mixture to make the media not too firm?)



I'm asking about the 50/50 ratio of Turface and Soil Perfector - specifically what the ideal consistency should be. I'd like to try Ron's method of keeping the mix completely inorganic.

It's not easy properly proportioning two completely opposite soil amendments. The Turface is finer than sand and the Soil Perfector is like all different sizes of Pea gravel.


Thanks Linus!


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## cnycharles (Oct 8, 2011)

I did a quick google read on turface and there are two sizes; which one should be used with ram's head and other native orchids for pots?

... to add detail, when I was googling, an athletic field supply page listed the two sizes of turface so plant supply sites may not stock the larger size


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## tocarmar (Oct 8, 2011)

cnycharles said:


> I did a quick google read on turface and there are two sizes; which one should be used with ram's head and other native orchids for pots?



I use the small size for all my Cyps.. I got it off of e-bay from a bonsai store. I didn't know it came in 2 sizes.


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## Kavanaru (Oct 9, 2011)

In case someone wants to try this... I have just read here about the use of Turface for Cypripedium culture and that it can be purchased at the Bonsai shop... that reminded me of an article referring to cheaper (and sometimes better) options for their use in Bonsai culture... It could be worth the test with Cypripedium.... I can say, that at least the recommended swiss brand is A LOT cheaper than Turface of Akadama and works very well for my plants (Bonsai and Spider Lillies). For refernce, 15Kg Akadama = 35 CHF, 10L Turface = 25CHF, 15L Migros Cat Litter = 4CHF!! 

here the link,also with brands fromother countries, including USA (3 entries!) and Canada: http://www.bonsai4me.com/Basics/Basicscatlitter.htm


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## Dido (Oct 9, 2011)

cnycharles said:


> I did a quick google read on turface and there are two sizes; which one should be used with ram's head and other native orchids for pots?
> 
> ... to add detail, when I was googling, an athletic field supply page listed the two sizes of turface so plant supply sites may not stock the larger size



In some discussion if have heard that arientinum need sand in the mixture and more to be on the acaule side. 
Plectrochilum grows good in fine lava stone with normal pot soil, so maybe this is the trick between. 
Heard that in Canada there is a fixed garden soil that work well. 
Still searching for the mail of the lady who told it. The new manager of that company will not give me the answer, and the lady is not working any more for them. 
Kedntuckyense loves a part sand in the mixture too. 
Some guys in ermany add to acaule sand too, this is a so called acid soil of special region. 
The Sand for arientinum is an grey sand like you use it for birds in the cage.:drool:


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## cnycharles (Oct 9, 2011)

about the cat litter link from kavanaru - interesting! I checked it out, and it seems that I have small seedling diatomite from australia that I had purchased before to try with phrags and paphs. for some reason, it didn't work all that well for me though I may not have been watering properly for semi-hydro use. so, I may try that for the arietinum. I'd heard that ram's head might like neutral to slightly alkaline, but I guess I could take a pH meter and go to a spot where there are some, and test the soil there. There is a spot with tiny ones that are growing in the leaf/needle litter underneath some evergreens, but there are larger plants in places with more mixed/deciduous woods, and they are supposed to be more numerous in alkaline cedar swamps through central ny. That said, just because they are in an alkaline swamp doesn't mean that the plants themselves aren't growing over hemlock roots (like pink ladyslippers/acaule do.. and they are acidic lovers)
thanks for all the info!

that said, I found this a few minutes ago http://orchids.wikia.com/wiki/Cypripedium_arietinum that suggests a media pH of around 6

also found on a german forum, a local north american botanist describes his attempts at growing ram's head and providing culture clues 
"Cypripedium arietinum is a rather rare species distributed from the taiga of central Canada across the Great Lakes region and eastward to the Coast. Only in the Great Lakes region is it abundant, and then only rarely. It most commonly occurs in the immediate vicinity of the larger lakes, growing on bluffs and sand dunes under open, scrubby forest of conifers and deciduous species. Soils are often moderately acidic but over calcareous substrates, very well-drained and often moderately dry. The species also occurs in calcareous fens; rare in such habitat, the plants grow atop well-drained but moist hummocks in calcareous muck." 

also "in contrast to my success with these species, my experience with the curious little C. arietinum has been mixed. These plants will grow well in my standard mix (mostly sand dune sand with a tiny bit of calcareous muck) in partial shade with moderate moisture levels. They are small and weak, however, and correspondingly difficult to establish. They grow in sites that often become quite dry in nature, but until established they require careful watering: too little and they may wilt fatally, but they rot easily if over-watered."


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