# Part of the problem with the AOS is...



## Ray (Jun 18, 2016)

...a lack of advertisers.

Without getting into a "chicken or egg" discussion, I looked at a recent issue of Orchids, and counted 36 advertisers in the index, not including AOS entries.

I then went at looked at the November 1997 issue, and saw this - 140!:


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## paphioland (Jun 18, 2016)

There are more problems with the AOS than that. The AOS is pretty useless. Especially in the Internet age. Dying group unless they change lots of things.


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## Ray (Jun 18, 2016)

I can't argue with that, but it seems to me that if there were more opportunities to ogle in anticipation of feeding one's habit, it could help a lot. Not to mention put more cash into the AOS' hands, allowing other changes.

Damn! I was trying to avoid chickens and eggs.


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## gonewild (Jun 18, 2016)

I wonder of the 140 you counted how many are still in business?


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## My Green Pets (Jun 18, 2016)

Recently they have redone their website and started an Instagram account. They're on Facebook and YouTube, though their videos are few. They also offer free "webinars" that you can log in and learn from other growers.

They seem to be rising to meet the needs of the newest generations of orchid growers, but it takes time to establish a presence on so many platforms.

I would actually like to be more involved, since I have my own YouTube channel and would be quite chuffed to be able to sport some kind of affiliation with the aos...


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## Ray (Jun 19, 2016)

Lance- not many, but there are a few long-timers.

Cam - Yeah, I did a webinar for them several months ago on semi-hydroponics, and it was quite well received.


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## Justin (Jun 19, 2016)

It is the same trend with orchid societies. 

If some has ideas on reversing the trend please let me know. We try to have more of an online presence these days which helps.


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## Lanmark (Jun 19, 2016)

I think a robust online presence would do wonders not only for the AOS but for local orchid societies as well. Videos, photos, event calendars, moderated Q&A forums, vetted paying sponsors who sell plants, lighting, supplies etc would all be essential. Maintaining an up-to-date, relevant, interesting online presence across several platforms takes work and attention, though, and can't be neglected if it's going to be successful. People quickly lose interest if a website is static.


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## JAB (Jun 19, 2016)

Well the "updated" AOS website is pretty much un-navigable IMHO. They are indeed behind the times on many fronts. As Lance mentioned many are out of business. The advent of online marketing and sales makes a magazine ad obsolete (anyone remember those yellow page thingy's!?). 
That said I would have to believe the majority of AOS members are probably 50 years old + .... if our local orchid society is any marker, the majority of the membership is not online at all, or if so in very limited capacity (email, porn. Not much social media at all). So I am not sure how significant online sales and adverts are to their overall focus!?


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## My Green Pets (Jun 19, 2016)

JAB said:


> (email, porn. Not much social media at all).



LOL


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## Ryan Young (Jun 19, 2016)

Justin said:


> It is the same trend with orchid societies.
> 
> If some has ideas on reversing the trend please let me know. We try to have more of an online presence these days which helps.


Our society really focuses on Web presence, and keeping lots of updates on Facebook with great pics and a bit of info regarding the plant, it generates good interest form the older to younger crowd. 
Lots of people like seeing blooming flowers and share the post which in turn receives a wider audience. 
We go to garden centres to give potting demos and answer questions hand out orchid show flyers, culture sheets and offer memberships (there and at shows). 

We've been stable for several years adding to members (older ones staying on) our culture classes we offer are well attended also. 

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk


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## Lanmark (Jun 19, 2016)

JAB said:


> That said I would have to believe the majority of AOS members are probably 50 years old + .... if our local orchid society is any marker, the majority of the membership is not online at all, or if so in very limited capacity (email, porn. Not much social media at all). So I am not sure how significant online sales and adverts are to their overall focus!?



There's nothing wrong with having older members, of course, but I think the point of having a top notch online presence would be to attract more new members of a younger age to grow the ranks of membership and keep the society going long into the future.


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## JAB (Jun 19, 2016)

Certainly nothing wrong with it, but it has been my experience that many older folk are Luddites. Am having this situation with the NWOS where some of the younger crowd (and me) are trying to build a better online presence in spite of a seeming disinterest from many older board members. 

Just a difference of focus and money, afterall that is the topic at hand.


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## SlipperFan (Jun 19, 2016)

JAB said:


> Certainly nothing wrong with it, but it has been my experience that many older folk are Luddites. Am having this situation with the NWOS where some of the younger crowd (and me) are trying to build a better online presence in spite of a seeming disinterest from many older board members.
> 
> Just a difference of focus and money, afterall that is the topic at hand.



I'm over 50. I'd be very happy to turn over the web site and newsletter to a younger member. Any takers?


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## Ray (Jun 20, 2016)

I am over 60, and I was the society's webmaster until I passed the torch in anticipation of relocation. I also do all of my own website work.

When I moved to Louisville KY, and joined a society there, I was 25, and the vast majority of the members were over 50, so that sort-of stat is nothing new.


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## JAB (Jun 20, 2016)

Interesting. In a city such as Seattle renowned for its tech savvy residents we have had headaches with website and social media aspects of the society both on users end and on developing and running it. Seems that many are anti computer. Strange.


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## gonewild (Jun 20, 2016)

What could the AOS on a webpage offer to an orchid enthusiast that would be better than a private free forum like SlipperTalk?

Orchid vendors can't afford to pay for advertising now like they could before the internet. I imagine a nice ad in the magazine costs well more than $1000... same ad here on ST is free.


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## Linus_Cello (Jun 20, 2016)

gonewild said:


> Orchid vendors can't afford to pay for advertising now like they could before the internet. I imagine a nice ad in the magazine costs well more than $1000... same ad here on ST is free.



And a more targeted audience.

In general, younger folks aren't interested growing plants/horticulture. The prefer spending discretionary income on "experiences" (travelling, eating out). Either residences are getting smaller (smaller apartments), or larger homes on small lots; no room for plants. I see the same trend with aquariums; folks would rather buy electronics than plants or fish.


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## NYEric (Jun 20, 2016)

Ray said:


> ...a lack of advertisers.
> 
> Without getting into a "chicken or egg" discussion, I looked at a recent issue of Orchids, and counted 36 advertisers in the index, not including AOS entries.
> 
> I then went at looked at the November 1997 issue, and saw this - 140!:





gonewild said:


> I wonder of the 140 you counted how many are still in business?



That is a good point. So many vendors, at least in our region, have closed shop. Just looking at that page from the back, Ray Rands, Whipporwill, Sunset Labs, Stewarts...


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## JAB (Jun 20, 2016)

Good points across the board!


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## Lanmark (Jun 20, 2016)

I wish I were in a better position to help, but I am not very internet or tech savvy. My plate is full, and I'm still trying to recover from this pesky back problem as well.

I have a lot of respect for all the work everyone already contributes to keep our orchid societies alive and well. I do think there is a viable younger crowd which is interested in growing orchids, but it's probably not nearly as large as the over-fifty crowd. Still, if only a few more younger people would step up to the challenge, I think they would find it rewarding.

Lance gave an excellent point too about how great this particular website is when it comes to free advertising for vendors and a plethora of connections and useful information for enthusiasts.


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## KyushuCalanthe (Jun 21, 2016)

With the explosion of technology and free online platforms, content is essentially free these days. Bottom line - nobody wants to buy content anymore, the expectation is everything is free. That is killing the print business - magazines, newspapers, books, you name it.

Societies are another matter. Again, the tendency is towards free content rather than paying. Facebook and Google have capitalized (meaning $$) on this since they have a huge workforce making content at no cost. They collect ad revenue here and there, and this translates into huge profits. The content producers, with few exceptions, get very little in return.

This brings up the interesting question - why bother making any good content? And of course, can you "trust" the content you are getting since anybody can produce it. Quality is crazy variable.

It will be interesting to see how this all pans out over time.


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## JAB (Jun 21, 2016)

Out of curiosity does anyone have the analytics concerning age demographics of AOS membership, or even ST membership? I am turning 40 this year and with a few exceptions am one of the youngest in our society. 

I have never been to an AOS meeting (are they worth it?) or any other big organization for that matter. When I visited both the Hilo and Kona orchid societies my better half and I were were the youngest by easily 15 years!!! 
I just do not see a lot of interest from the young crowd. Kyushu and others have made some solid points about the generation living in much more cramped quarters, and choosing to spend their income on tech garbage and/or "experiences."


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## gonewild (Jun 21, 2016)

JAB said:


> I have never been to an AOS meeting (are they worth it?)



It's worth it if you are old and rich or young and want to make friends with an old rich person.


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## tomkalina (Jun 21, 2016)

Interesting thread. We appear to be one of the lucky (?) few who are still in business today, but the nature of the business has changed dramatically since 1997. Print advertising is virtually non-existent today; it's all online via our websites, and forum targeted. As for the seeming lack of interest among younger growers, I think they are still interested - they just get their information more efficiently via the internet. When I started growing orchids in 1964 (!) the only way to get cultural information was to join the AOS for it's AOS Bulletin and a local society with it's coincident politics. We also tended to collect orchid books - a lot of them - and they were expensive. Nowadays, the information we find is not only better and more accurate, it's free for the most part.


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## pontupo (Jun 21, 2016)

I wonder to what extent this is a generational pattern vs it being an age pattern. Put another way, were orchid societies ever filled with a lot of young people? 

The hobby, because of the comparatively high costs and the potentially high time demands is something that's going to appeal to people with a lot of leisure time and a certain amount of disposable income. The general life pattern of working longer hours, starting a family, buying a house, etc during the first couple decades of adulthood seems like it would leave little time for orchid growing. 

It's certain that there are big changes in the way that information / content is produced and distributed. It's also certain that there are generation changes in interests and values. However, given that there are no even remotely comprehensive figures on the size of the hobby orchid market (not the disposable orchid commercial market), it may not be safe to assume that the hobby is declining in popularity. Orchid societies in the classical vein are declining, yes, but orchid forums are exploding in popularity (relative to nonexistence just a few short years ago). Likewise vendors using a classical sales model may see declines in sales, but there may be other vendors selling largely or exclusively online that are not seeing declines. 

All of this is to say that I agree that the AOS must evolve or die. The times have changed and it must change with them. However, I don't necessarily think a conclusion that there's a general decline in interest in orchids or horticulture in younger generations is warranted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SlipperFan (Jun 22, 2016)

gonewild said:


> It's worth it if you are old and rich or young and want to make friends with an old rich person.



I must be missing something. I've met a lot of AOS members, being one myself. I don't see a lot of wealth, unless it is in orchid knowledge.


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## JAB (Jun 22, 2016)

Lance,
Info wise do you find the AOS meetings subpar? I get the general feeling from most it is strictly a networking type of thing. 

Good insight Tom. Good point about the AOS being the sole source of info for decades! 

Dot, 
I think in general folks who can afford orchids (or a hobby like orchids) have more money then not. Now that is all relative, but the general point is this is mostly a hobby for upper middle class (does that exist anymore??) folks. 
I think in general it is getting tougher to "see" who has money and who does not in our society. Just read a study that said 60 million some Americans do not have enough money saved to survive a month without income. Not to say they ain't buying the latest roth cross....


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## gonewild (Jun 22, 2016)

SlipperFan said:


> I must be missing something. I've met a lot of AOS members, being one myself. I don't see a lot of wealth, unless it is in orchid knowledge.



Referring to attending the AOS official meetings that are "society" affairs. Not AOS members at large. Think the officers that spend a fortune on events based in their home areas that 99% of the AOS membership could never be able to attend because of travel and expense. And when a unconnected member shows up they are ignored.


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## gonewild (Jun 22, 2016)

JAB said:


> Lance,
> Info wise do you find the AOS meetings subpar? I get the general feeling from most it is strictly a networking type of thing.



I've not been to a meeting in over 30 years! I dont think it is even about networking it's about a social event to rub elbows. At one time the magazine was a fantastic source of info, basically the only source unless you had friends in high places. The AOS has changed from what it was 30 years ago and it has not gotten better.
Don't get me wrong the orchid hobby needs the AOS, not to attract new members but rather to administer awards and promote orchids as being something of monetary worth and status symbol. Every serious orchid collector should belong to the AOS just to support and help continue the romance of orchids.


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## JAB (Jun 22, 2016)

Thank you Lance for your insight. I have been skeptical about the AOS and its agenda since joining years ago. Everything about it seems political. I know the fall meeting is in LA this year but not sure if I can afford to go, and even if so if it is worth it.


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## tnyr5 (Jun 23, 2016)

The AOS is certainly not without its problems, but, if you would like to see the wild-west craziness that the orchid hobby would be without it, go have a look at the reef aquarium hobby some time, where the same $50 ocean-cultured coral (one of hundreds of identical cultured pieces) is cut up into 25 pieces and given 25 different designer names by 25 different vendors, all of whom are selling 1/4in pieces of it for $1000 each. This is not the equivalent of a high-priced awarded orchid, it's more like pretending any old orchid you have sitting on your bench is awarded and trying to dump it off on some unsuspecting rube. 
I am not a guy with a lot of money; when I got back into orchids after leaving the reef hobby (partly because of the meth cooking neighbors killing it, but also partly because I ABSOLUTELY COULD NOT STAND the kind of people that were gravitating to the hobby), I was amazed at how *dirt cheap* they are. And the reason for that is because we have a flawed ( we could argue to what degree, but I digress...) but still workable system of checks and balances to keep the crazy largely at bay.


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## troy (Jun 23, 2016)

Jab if you went, most likely, you would be ignored 'who is this guy' treatment


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## Linus_Cello (Jun 23, 2016)

tnyr5 said:


> The AOS is certainly not without its problems, but, if you would like to see the wild-west craziness that the orchid hobby would be without it, go have a look at the reef aquarium hobby some time, where the same $50 ocean-cultured coral (one of hundreds of identical cultured pieces) is cut up into 25 pieces and given 25 different designer names by 25 different vendors, all of whom are selling 1/4in pieces of it for $1000 each. This is not the equivalent of a high-priced awarded orchid, it's more like pretending any old orchid you have sitting on your bench is awarded and trying to dump it off on some unsuspecting rube.
> I am not a guy with a lot of money; when I got back into orchids after leaving the reef hobby (partly because of the meth cooking neighbors killing it, but also partly because I ABSOLUTELY COULD NOT STAND the kind of people that were gravitating to the hobby), I was amazed at how *dirt cheap* they are. And the reason for that is because we have a flawed ( we could argue to what degree, but I digress...) but still workable system of checks and balances to keep the crazy largely at bay.



Interesting. I don't do marine since I'm annoyed with "salt creep" and was spoiled growing up volunteering at the NeAq where salt water came out of spigot (after having to make salt water, I lost interest, though I have a soft spot for tridacnas and anenomes). 

But I've seen so many Live Fish Stores disappear. The only ones that stick around do extensive marine; the margins are so tight with fresh water, and Pet Smart/PetCo have filled up that niche. But I think the aquarium hobby is fast going downhill like orchids because (1) people are more mobile, only living in one place for a couple of years before moving, (2) people are moving in to smaller homes/apartments, so no space for orchids/aquariums, (3) people are interested in "experiences" such as travel and eating out (so discretionary income goes there), and (4) some work requires more travel, so less time to be at home to take care of orchids/aquariums.


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## Happypaphy7 (Jun 23, 2016)

gonewild said:


> It's worth it if you are old and rich or young and want to make friends with an old rich person.



Hahaha funny! 

I have no idea about this topic, but aren't a lot of orchid people MD and DDS? 
Not saying all doctors are equally wealthy. lol


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## Happypaphy7 (Jun 23, 2016)

Good points. 
Regarding age group, I think the answer is yes.

I've only been to just a handful of societies, and all were with old people for the most part. But then many of them have been society members for decades, so yes, at some point, the meetings were full of young(er) people. 
May not be teenagers and those in their 20s, but still much younger than the average age group I see now. 

I think life is just too busy for many people, and especially younger people who are just establishing everything in life, like careers and family ( I mean even family comes second, so why plant hobby? lol). 

Linus had great points regarding this. 

Busy people can still grow one or a few orchids, the whole hobby can sometimes seem too much. Speakers bring their plants to sell, orchid show throw a full spectrum of different vendors, and of course you want to try different things but the reality doesn't allow this luxury of time and effort to take care of plants.
At least for some people. 



pontupo said:


> I wonder to what extent this is a generational pattern vs it being an age pattern. Put another way, were orchid societies ever filled with a lot of young people?
> 
> The hobby, because of the comparatively high costs and the potentially high time demands is something that's going to appeal to people with a lot of leisure time and a certain amount of disposable income. The general life pattern of working longer hours, starting a family, buying a house, etc during the first couple decades of adulthood seems like it would leave little time for orchid growing.
> 
> ...


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## JAB (Jun 23, 2016)

Kinda what I was thinking Troy. 
Back in the day I was a member of the IHS (International Herpetological Society) and went to a number of their meetings. Was treated much the same way.


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## gonewild (Jun 23, 2016)

Linus_Cello said:


> But I've seen so many Live Fish Stores disappear. The only ones that stick around do extensive marine; the margins are so tight with fresh water, and Pet Smart/PetCo have filled up that niche. But I think the aquarium hobby is fast going downhill like orchids because (1) people are more mobile, only living in one place for a couple of years before moving, (2) people are moving in to smaller homes/apartments, so no space for orchids/aquariums, (3) people are interested in "experiences" such as travel and eating out (so discretionary income goes there), and (4) some work requires more travel, so less time to be at home to take care of orchids/aquariums.



There is another factor that has not been mentioned about why younger people are not being interested in having collections of live plants or fish.

Over the last 15 to 20 years there has been a campaign by many conservation groups to demonize the collecting and keeping of plants and animals. As part of their long term plan to eliminate collecting species from the wild these groups have promoted "educational propaganda" programs which teach young persons that buying orchid plants or buying tropical fish and keeping them as a hobby is a direct support of environmental destruction. There has been a "guilt complex" created about orchids and fish that diverts people from pursuing the hobbies. 

It's not the cost, people spend more playing video games than the cost to buy orchids or to have a couple aquariums.

This is not by accident it is by plan. And now the final part of the time frame of the plan is being reached. 

Your observation of seeing so many Live fish stores disappear is an example of the goal of the plan. Ten years ago there were about 40 licensed fish exporters in Iquitos Peru. Today there are maybe 3 or 4 and they don't have enough demand to stay in business and have resorted to narco trafficing, after all that is the modern hobby for the youth. 

:sob:


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## JAB (Jun 23, 2016)

Lance
Solid point! 
I have heard recent news reports that even the blackmarket cannabis growers south of the border are starting to farm poppies because the legal market here in the US has undercut their profits, so they are resorting to opium production in lieu of cannabis production. Like Lance said opiates seem to be the new big thing with Americans of all ages! Sad.


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## gonewild (Jun 23, 2016)

JAB said:


> Lance
> Solid point!
> I have heard recent news reports that even the blackmarket cannabis growers south of the border are starting to farm poppies because the legal market here in the US has undercut their profits, so they are resorting to opium production in lieu of cannabis production. Like Lance said opiates seem to be the new big thing with Americans of all ages! Sad.



Poppies are starting to replace coca in the north of Peru now also. It's the younger farmers making the change. So the youth are taking the world in different directions. Better keep the young people out of the AOS!! :rollhappy:


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## JAB (Jun 23, 2016)

On the flip side that would bring much needed revenue to a non-prof


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## Linus_Cello (Jun 23, 2016)

gonewild said:


> There is another factor that has not been mentioned about why younger people are not being interested in having collections of live plants or fish.
> 
> Over the last 15 to 20 years there has been a campaign by many conservation groups to demonize the collecting and keeping of plants and animals. As part of their long term plan to eliminate collecting species from the wild these groups have promoted "educational propaganda" programs which teach young persons that buying orchid plants or buying tropical fish and keeping them as a hobby is a direct support of environmental destruction. There has been a "guilt complex" created about orchids and fish that diverts people from pursuing the hobbies.
> 
> ...



There may be some influence of "environmental destruction" education, but cyanide fishing is an issue with marine fish. As far as I know, cyanide is not used for freshwater. My guess the reason why there are fewer exporters in Iquitos is (1) consolidation of the industry to larger more profitable exporters, (2) less interest in the freshwater fish hobby generally (and amazon fish), (3) some of these fish are now successfully farmed (cheaper and easier to export to US from Florida than wild caught from Amazon; most of cost is freight of water). Related to the last point is that people are interested in breeding lines of certain fish (discus, angelfish), buying line bred fish from Asia/US/Europe; occasionally injecting wild genes.

On the flip side, I've seen campaigns for buying cardinal tetras from the Amazon as a "sustainable" industry; and the zebra pleco has brought some attention to the Bel Monte dam.


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## Happypaphy7 (Jun 23, 2016)

Other than common sense of protecting and respecting the nature, I was not really affected by such ideas. Maybe it is a US thing?
I'm referring to what Lance pointed out earlier. 

At least in Korea, I guess totally different hobby culture, it is kind of like Japan where people grow mostly just local species like Cymbidium goeringii and Neofinetia falcate, which are probably the big two among others.
It was not really a hobby, but rather a show off for very wealthy people even into the 90s, and still so in some respect. Money was a driven factor, again I guess.
People went into the wild and removed basically any special varieties with high market value. Even the common types are nearly extinct in Korea now.

Japan has introduced other popular orchids that are seen in the Western world, but in Korea, it is still rare to see such orchids. 
Wild form of certain local species are quite common, and anyone can get a hold of those now. Rarer varieties and top notch are still rich people's toy, a dream for average people, of course.

Hobby does pose danger on wild species, but banning without proper education and system to moniter activities probably cause more harm in the form of black market and smuggling. 

Sad, but typical of how things work.


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## gonewild (Jun 23, 2016)

Linus_Cello said:


> My guess the reason why there are fewer exporters in Iquitos is (1) consolidation of the industry to larger more profitable exporters, (2) less interest in the freshwater fish hobby generally (and amazon fish), (3) some of these fish are now successfully farmed (cheaper and easier to export to US from Florida than wild caught from Amazon; most of cost is freight of water).



#2 and 3 are correct.
#1 is not correct The big companies dropped first. It was not possible for big companies to service all clients. The reason is simple lack of demand and interest in general and no one will pay for the cost of collecting now.

Same problem with orchids the public interest that has commercial value is in cheaply produced hybrids.... basically like line bred fish.


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## My Green Pets (Jun 24, 2016)

Isn't it true that more people in the United States have orchids in their homes today than ever before?

Cheap hybrids are available everywhere - Superstores, Home improvement stores, Grocery stores - and of course online.

I don't think the orchid hobby is shrinking. I think it is changing. Orchids are now COMMON HOUSEPLANTS.

Also, young adults ARE interested. Look at the breakdown of my viewers on Youtube. From a total of 41,600 views from the US:

13-17: 3.4%
18-24: 7.6%
25-34: 24% This group is almost a quarter of my total viewers!
34-44: 17%
45-54: 17%
55-64: 17%
65+: 14%

Now obviously I can't say that my viewer statistics can be expanded to encompass all orchid growers across America, but it can demonstrate who is watching my orchid videos!


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## KyushuCalanthe (Jun 24, 2016)

CambriaWhat said:


> Also, young adults ARE interested. Look at the breakdown of my viewers on Youtube. From a total of 41,600 views from the US:
> 
> 13-17: 3.4%
> 18-24: 7.6%
> ...



I have very similar demographics for my YT channel, though I cover more than orchids. About 30% of my traffic comes from the states, and the rest is broadly spread across the globe, favoring Europe and English speaking countries. Interestingly, men watching outnumber women, 60% and 40% respectively, but in Japan the trend is the opposite, women make up almost 75% of my audience! Go figure. Having said all that, I'd say interest isn't really down worldwide, but the manner in which folks access information surely has changed.

Here in Japan there is a real problem with youth culture not favoring things like orchid cultivation - hobbies like that are left for old folks. I wonder about the future for orchids, bonsai, and the like here. In this country interest may indeed be waning.


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## Ray (Jun 24, 2016)

Don't forget that the data may be skewed by the demographics of YT viewers in the first place:

http://digiday.com/platforms/demographics-youtube-5-charts/


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## Lanmark (Jun 24, 2016)

Spread the hobby, folks! Show off your plants to your friends and neighbors. You never know when someone new will catch the bug!


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## Happypaphy7 (Jun 24, 2016)

Ray has a good point. 

Also, certain age groups use internet more than others.

Speaking of internet, people can easily access information they need on the internet and website like this one we are on. 
To many, sacrificing a couple hours in the evening during weekday or weekend is just too much. 
It's more about socializing, I think. 

So in the end, people feel less or no need to join anything unless they just love to drag their tired-selves out to a meeting where they gain nothing to little on something they can gain in just a few minutes of searching and reading online in their comfortable setting.

I have seen a few people in their 20s visit our meeting but none really came back.
They might have felt that it was not the right place for them seeing the demographic. lol


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## gonewild (Jun 24, 2016)

As far as age goes nothing really has changed. I never really met anyone my age or younger that was interested in orchids.....until I got into the old bracket.


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## Linus_Cello (Jun 24, 2016)

Yes, there are more orchids in houses, but the plants are a disposable commodity, rather than a hobby. More of a live floral arrangement.

The hope was that these mass commodity phals would be a gateway to the greater orchid hobby. Again, I think busy schedules, smaller homes, and spending discretionary income on "experiences" will win out.

I think if AOS or other societies want to grow, maybe they should partner up with other hobby groups. Maybe a joint orchid/gesnerid/master gardners symposium/society?


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## JAB (Jun 24, 2016)

The majority of folks whom buy orchids at Home Depot don't have a clue what they have, and with HD BS policy of refunding you money within a year of purchase if it dies... is no motivation for the lemmings to better their culture techniques. I have not met one person that bought an orchid at a big name store and then came out to a meeting to learn more. 
Linus is right... they are throw away plants anymore to most.


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## AdamD (Jun 24, 2016)

JAB said:


> The majority of folks whom buy orchids at Home Depot don't have a clue what they have, and with HD BS policy of refunding you money within a year of purchase if it dies... is no motivation for the lemmings to better their culture techniques. I have not met one person that bought an orchid at a big name store and then came out to a meeting to learn more.
> Linus is right... they are throw away plants anymore to most.



I'm one of those people


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## AdamD (Jun 24, 2016)

Happypaphy7 said:


> Ray has a good point.
> 
> 
> I have seen a few people in their 20s visit our meeting but none really came back.
> They might have felt that it was not the right place for them seeing the demographic. lol



I'm in my 20's, and yes, this is my sentiment. I enjoy the people, enjoy the comradery. I just feel out of place sometimes


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## gonewild (Jun 24, 2016)

AdamD said:


> I'm in my 20's, and yes, this is my sentiment. I enjoy the people, enjoy the comradery. I just feel out of place sometimes



Don't worry you'll get over the feeling. In another 20 years. 
Then you'll have 10 good years.
Then all the 20's year olds will be whining about all the snobby grumpy old people and you will avoid them. :wink:


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## Happypaphy7 (Jun 24, 2016)

hahaha I love these funny comments. 

Anyway, when I first went to the meeting, I felt so out of place, plus, no one talked to me! 
I only went because it was easy to get to, and then they were having a holiday party and auction next month. Otherwise, I wouldn't have gone back.
Nothing new to learn about, and rather boring was my impression, plus older demographic and no friendly people. Ok, there was one person who said hello. lol


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## AdamD (Jun 24, 2016)

After getting hot and sweaty at work, usually driving an hour there and an hour home in traffic, I don't feel like driving an hour and 15 to get ignored. But, I digress, this rant is about the AOS. Not local societies. 

I feel the AOS is stepping up its game, too little too late. I used to think of the award process as something of beauty and mystery, adhering to strict guidelines, checking all personal emotions and experiences at the door. I guess I'm disillusioned by the whole political nepotistic process. I do agree that it has brought validity and order to a hobby that could have possibly been as unruly as the fish and tank industry. 

For me, I have let my membership lapse both times I have subscribed to it. I felt the cost outweighed any benefit. The website was ( and still is) unnavigable and slow. Nonprofits still hire outside help. Might be time to delegate that one. The magazine has some top notch orchid porn, but little in the way of the creative or informative journalism I crave. Hell, throw in some opinion pieces. Dare to be controversial for content, not for back office politics. 

Also, integration of a forum or pic sharing medium would be highly beneficial. I'm sure it'd catch on quick and take on a life of its own. Much like...

I am in the precarious situation of being an energetic enthusiastic young member with my time tied up by work and family. My free time is precious. I spend it where I should, with my family. I try to integrate orchids into that as much as possible, which ends up being once or twice a year. When life slows down I will step it up where I can. Today I haven't seen my wife since Sunday, literally between overtime and her college. Our kids haven't seen us together all week. Am I going to a society meeting tonight? No. Am I spending free time while she's doing homework on orchids? Yup. And I feel a bit guilty about it. But a guy's gotta have a hobby. 

In closing, the AOS could occupy this little bit of free time I have right now, if they tried a little harder.


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## SlipperFan (Jun 24, 2016)

About being ignored at local society meetings: I felt that way -- terribly out of place and not feeling welcome. But here's the way to change that: volunteer for something for the society. You'll get to know people and they will get to know you. It doesn't have to be big, just get involved.

I think the AOS has a forum on their site, plus a Facebook page. I don't participate in either one because I'm so involved here. And this is enough for me.


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## MattWoelfsen (Jun 25, 2016)

AOS does have a website, as Adamd remarked, it is slow. You can participate on the website's forum but few people do that. Instead they opt to participate on Facebook. That page has over 25,000 members. 

The AOS Facebook has a lot of pictures of orchids. Very few discussions on growing orchids or even descriptions of a posted orchid and its culture. Postings do try to include names of the orchid. But there are numerous photos that someone posts from someone else. 

AOS does provide me with a lovely printed magazine and if I wanted, I can download a PDF copy of that magazine. The articles are informative. My local Orchid Society is very small. I dropped out a couple of years ago when my schedule wouldn't permit me to attend the monthly meeting or set up and take down orchid exhibits.

I'm at a place where I don't need inspiration on acquiring more orchids. But I am interested in knowing how to grow what I own. This place serves that purpose as well as AOS and its library.

For these reasons, I do not see anything wrong with AOS. I do wish they would hold meetings in the center of the US--I'd rather spend money buying orchids than spending a lot of time traveling and money for airfare.


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## Ray (Jun 25, 2016)

Ive been an AOS member since the '70's, and a lot has changed in that time. With the number of vendors closing, so no longer advertising in the magazine, it isn't as enticing to me as it once was, but I still enjoy perusing it.

They dredged up a very old article about the "Myths of Kelp Usage" a year or so back, and I was forced to write a rebuttal article... Besides that, I have written a number of articles for it and a few for the Orchid Digest, and for a lark, those are the only editions I keep.


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## JAB (Jun 25, 2016)

Adam
Bummer you have been ignored at local meetings. Seems to be a nationwide issue with NOOBS at meetings (which I don't get). But you make solid points about family and time. And may I say it is refreshing to hear of a father with his priorities straight! 
You are spot on with your assessment of the AOS' site and magazine. I have noticed even in the past couple years the quality of articles diminishing. I am willing to be within 5-6 that magazine will be having problems staying afloat. 


FWIW I believe the Orchid Digest and Slipper Orchid Alliance are the better bangs for ones dollar. Though the SOA is hurting for articles, I think they do an excellent job for the most part.


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## KyushuCalanthe (Jun 25, 2016)

Ray said:


> Don't forget that the data may be skewed by the demographics of YT viewers in the first place:
> 
> http://digiday.com/platforms/demographics-youtube-5-charts/



Ha ha Ray! I knew, or intuited, those results, I just never saw them laid out so explicitly. So basically, if you aren't making videos about gaming for the boys, beauty products and style for the women or taking videos about dogs, you might as well throw in the towel!

Since YT is used primary by the 18-24 crowd, then it is no surprise they would give the largest stat no matter the type of content.

Regardless, I think I need to rethink my channel - start making videos about young, beautiful Japanese girls walking their dogs to the local gaming center to meet their equally young, handsome boyfriends for a day out on the town.:rollhappy: Of course I'll have to keep my ugly mug off screen and hire some bubbly 20 something woman to do the narration...


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## keithrs (Jul 4, 2016)

Where/what is the incentive to join?


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## JAB (Jul 4, 2016)

I think they pull at the heart strings of a lot of us die hard collectors reminiscing on what once was, or could be. 

Also to a certain degree the older crowd likes the orchid porn all in one magazine where they do not have to get online to click around. 

Other then that I see little. The quality of the articles seems to be diminishing at a monthly rate. I have not been to a AOS meeting, but a lot of it sounds like good ol boy hob nobbing.


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## AdamD (Jul 4, 2016)

Register your awards


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## SlipperFan (Jul 4, 2016)

I'm reading a lot of negative comments in this thread about how bad the AOS is. It reminds me a little of all the gripping I hear about how bad the US government is, but when these folks are asked if they vote, they say, 'No." So once again I say, get involved. Make a difference.


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## Happypaphy7 (Jul 5, 2016)

How about we start a new thread on "benefits of AOS"?


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## JAB (Jul 5, 2016)

Dot
Well the topic is "what is the problem with the AOS." 
I will be quite frank and honest here... I have reached out to the AOS, SOA, and a couple others about getting more involved and helping. Only ONE group got back to me, SOA, and even then it has only been a couple emails and very little info as to how I can get more involved. If I were to read between the lines most groups do not seem to want help from some random member. The AOS ignores 2/3 of any emails I send. 
So overall I hear ya when it comes to the griping and getting involved. But to draw a parallel to your analogy of the US government... go to get involved only to discover the bullshit is thicker then you ever thought and your voice is never heard, or if it is it is ignored. 
Why I got involved at the local level, only to find out a lot of my assumptions about the big organizations is simply reflected in the more local chapters. Funny ego's abound in this orchid world. 


Cheers
JAB


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## SlipperFan (Jul 5, 2016)

I certainly don't disagree about egos. I'm really saddened by the negation reactions you've received. I think there may be something about ego at play here: I've observed that often, while the "old guard" say they want new blood and new ideas, they are reluctant to give up their "power." They've earned their place in the society, and it is difficult to let go. But I still say the only way to change things is to get involved, even if it is only a little bit at a time.

Keep at it. You'll be heard.


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## JAB (Jul 6, 2016)

Dot
Agree 100%. Unfortunately, sadly, many folks have nothing more than the modicum of "power" they hold in a society based on... flowers. It is not coincidence so many folks have a hard time culture wise with their plants... once again they are imposing their ego onto a living plant. Deep down inside they know they have absolutely zero power over the plant!! Sad.

Oh, don't you worry. My voice is big, loud, and hard to unhear  and I will keep pestering the good groups. 
Cheers
JAB


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## SlipperFan (Jul 6, 2016)

That's good -- a loud voice can be very useful!


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## JAB (Jul 7, 2016)

Glad you think so. Tends to cause more problems than not


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## SlipperFan (Jul 7, 2016)

Sometimes it's not the volume that is troublesome -- it is the tone.


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## JAB (Jul 8, 2016)

Tis true.


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## Happypaphy7 (Jul 9, 2016)

So true! hahahaha although volume can be annoying when too much. hahaha


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