# Thun Orchids Show 2010 (Switzerland) - Slippers and others.



## Kavanaru (Mar 22, 2010)

Last weekend was teh Orchids Show in Thun (Switzerland). As expected, very well organized and lots of public. I was a bit disappointed this year due to the lack (IMO) of stunning plants... not that there were no good plants this year, but more a matter of being spoiled with better quality of plants in the past..

However, there were some interesting plants there:

a nice sized Phrag. Jason Fischer




Paph xglanzii (natural hybrid micranthum x emersonii)






Paphiopedilum Liberty Taiwan





Paphiopedilum Benedikt (St. Swithin x vietnamense)




A nice Paph sukhakulii (plus friends)





Paph hainaldianum var. album




Paph philippinense var. album (first time I see one, therefore I still think it is very nice - cannot compare to any other philippinense album)




For those interested in some more pictures, including non-slipper orchids:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157623669058068/


enjoy!


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## GuRu (Mar 22, 2010)

Lovely flowers, thanks for sharing your photos!!

Best regards from germany, rudolf


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## Kavanaru (Mar 22, 2010)

I forgot to add this guy 

Paphiopedilum bundtii (this first time I ever hear about this species.... anyone has any info about it?)


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## NYEric (Mar 22, 2010)

Not me, thanx for sharing. I like the album phill because all I've seen have been tiny! 
Nice Dollgoldi in your flikr site.


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## valenzino (Mar 22, 2010)

Probably the show was not like past cause of fights inside organization of the show.Nice photos.

P bundtii is a sinonym.....difficult to say in bullenianum group like in barbigerum group....


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## smartie2000 (Mar 22, 2010)

Looks like a good show!

Interesting that I have never heard of the natural hybrid Paph xglanzii
But they are gorgeous flowers!


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## Kavanaru (Mar 22, 2010)

valenzino said:


> Probably the show was not like past cause of fights inside organization of the show.Nice photos.



hehe, well... you said that  but you are probably right... let's see if the other group makes it better end of May... 

It was though a very nice show with lots of plants and, after talking to some friends on the commercial side, with lost of sales... I only missed those "WOW!-Effekt" Plants...


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## Kavanaru (Mar 22, 2010)

smartie2000 said:


> Looks like a good show!
> 
> Interesting that I have never heard of the natural hybrid Paph xglanzii
> But they are gorgeous flowers!



http://www.orchid.or.jp/orchid/people/tanaka/orchid/org/shinshu/shinshu45.html

this plant was from Franz Glanz... According to some discussion I heard, it should even be the same plant used for the description... however, it looks different to me (when compared with the photos in the article attached) 

Franz Glanz had (IMO) the best plants in the show, including the two great Calanthes in my Flickr page.


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## valenzino (Mar 22, 2010)

Kavanaru said:


> hehe, well... you said that  but you are probably right... let's see if the other group makes it better end of May...
> 
> It was though a very nice show with lots of plants and, after talking to some friends on the commercial side, with lost of sales... I only missed those "WOW!-Effekt" Plants...



I will be at the other show(i missed Thun this year unfortunately) that is end of april (April 29~May 2nd) so if you are there we can meet.

I am always sorry seeing fights inside orchids groups....


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## Kavanaru (Mar 22, 2010)

valenzino said:


> I will be at the other show(i missed Thun this year unfortunately) that is end of april (April 29~May 2nd) so if you are there we can meet.
> 
> I am always sorry seeing fights inside orchids groups....



Indeed... and I think the whole story was actually negative for all orchids lovers in Switzerland.. however, I think the Thun show already has a name on its own, and that keeps people going there (IMO, one, if not the best show in Switzerland) 

If you will be in Yverdon-les-Bains end of May, of course I would be up for a meeting  I am nlot really sure yet when exactly I would be there. Most probably 1/2 May, but I am also thinking of attending teh first day of the show: less people, easier to take pictures (this was a nightmare in Thun!) and better chance to get interesting plants from the different nurseries...

Just curiuous, Would you by chance come to Merlimont next week?


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## Jorch (Mar 22, 2010)

I like the color on Paph Benedikt! 

I agree that the pictures of x glanzii that Olaf showed here before look different from this plant. I wonder if it is the same plant? Only the flowers looks "better" as the plant is more matured?


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## KyushuCalanthe (Mar 22, 2010)

Thanks for sharing these Ramón!

The micranthum/emersonii hybrid is very interesting as is Benedikt - I haven't seen either before. I'd really like to get a hold of a philippinense v. album and you pic just hammers that home. I looked at the flickr album too - those micranthum are just so cool, such huge flowers on small plants! And that Mercccatoli x adductum is just fabulous....ah...


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## Roth (Mar 22, 2010)

xGlanzii exists as spare plants here and there. Most of the xGlanzii displayed however are multigrowth seedlings coming from an Austrian nursery...

Bundtii is coming from Sulawesii, named after Carl Bundt who had a nursery there years ago. It is a variation in the bullenianum group.


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## SlipperFan (Mar 22, 2010)

Great flowers! I don't think I've seen any of these before.


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## emydura (Mar 22, 2010)

Great photos. The xGlanzii is a particular highlight for me.

David


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## valenzino (Mar 22, 2010)

Kavanaru said:


> Indeed... and I think the whole story was actually negative for all orchids lovers in Switzerland.. however, I think the Thun show already has a name on its own, and that keeps people going there (IMO, one, if not the best show in Switzerland)
> 
> If you will be in Yverdon-les-Bains end of May, of course I would be up for a meeting  I am nlot really sure yet when exactly I would be there. Most probably 1/2 May, but I am also thinking of attending teh first day of the show: less people, easier to take pictures (this was a nightmare in Thun!) and better chance to get interesting plants from the different nurseries...
> 
> Just curiuous, Would you by chance come to Merlimont next week?



Agree...

I will be in Yverdon-les-Bains every day so no problems.The first day is always best one to buy and talk also.

Unfortunately I cannot come to Merlimont,cause at the moment I have some family problems and cant move around freely.Sorry because is some years that they invite me and I had always problems!!!


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## JeanLux (Mar 23, 2010)

Really excellent pics Eamon, not so easy to realize during a show!!!!

btw. Benedikt is acc. to RHS St. Swithin X vietnamense, Roth. X vietn. being Wössner Vietnam Star (hope that mine will bloom one day) Jean


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## Kavanaru (Mar 23, 2010)

JeanLux said:


> Really excellent pics Eamon, not so easy to realize during a show!!!!
> 
> btw. Benedikt is acc. to RHS St. Swithin X vietnamense, Roth. X vietn. being Wössner Vietnam Star (hope that mine will bloom one day) Jean



you are right, I did not remember the cross and quickly checked for the photos in Orchid Digest vol. 73-1 p. 17. I forgot that Olaf had mentioned about the mistakes on this page in a previous thread. On page 14 it is correct andon page 15 is a photo of Wössner Vietnam Star (roth x viet) - I have corrected the first entry


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## Kavanaru (Mar 23, 2010)

Sanderianum said:


> xGlanzii exists as spare plants here and there. Most of the xGlanzii displayed however are multigrowth seedlings coming from an Austrian nursery...



Maybe, but the plant shown in Thun was not a multigrowth (that's another reason for me to think that what I heard was not true and this is not the same plant used for the description) On the other hand, knowing this plant comes from the nursery where Paph xglanzii was "discovered" and described, I don't think this one comes the Australian nursery, but more that it has been produced in Germany. How the original plant came to Germany might be a different story...


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## labskaus (Mar 23, 2010)

Very nice pictures, thanks Ramon!

the Paph bundtii should have been in Hilmar Bauchs display since he offers seedlings on ebay occasionally. That "species" turned up in culture some 30 years ago, I think, but the name was never officially published. Some people call it x bundtii as well, suppose it is a natural hybrid with a species of the bullenianum group. It reminds me of mohrianum.
The Mercatelli x adductum (anitum?) cross is registered as Woessner Komet (Sam Tsui offers a remake). Franz had just a dozen seedlings from his original cross. He seems to like it since he carried about every blooming plant of this cross to judging in the last few years. This is about the fifth of the dozen I get to see in flower, and this one has quite an intense colour.


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## Kavanaru (Mar 23, 2010)

labskaus said:


> Very nice pictures, thanks Ramon!
> 
> the Paph bundtii should have been in Hilmar Bauchs display since he offers seedlings on ebay occasionally. That "species" turned up in culture some 30 years ago, I think, but the name was never officially published. Some people call it x bundtii as well, suppose it is a natural hybrid with a species of the bullenianum group. It reminds me of mohrianum.
> The Mercatelli x adductum (anitum?) cross is registered as Woessner Komet (Sam Tsui offers a remake). Franz had just a dozen seedlings from his original cross. He seems to like it since he carried about every blooming plant of this cross to judging in the last few years. This is about the fifth of the dozen I get to see in flower, and this one has quite an intense colour.



hehe, interesting about the Mercatelli x adductum. I am not 100% sure, but if I recall it correctly it was not in Franz' display... I would surprised that if it his plant and he registered the cross, the plant was not labelled with the correct name, and also the label was incorrect as it should read Mem. Mercatelli x adductum... 

and yes, the bundtii is from Hilmar Bauch


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## goldenrose (Mar 24, 2010)

:clap::clap:Lots of nice flowers, ones not normally seen! Thanks for sharing!
I'm with everyone, gotta love that xGlanzii. I'm not crazy about the adductum cross but I'll certainly take the St.Swith x stonei X! :drool::drool:
The chiloschista are outstanding, as is the sophronitis I've never heard of!!!:drool::drool:


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## JeanLux (Mar 24, 2010)

I had a look at your slide-show only now, must have skipped the link!!! Great pics of pretty plants!!!! Hirsutissimum, the mantiquera sophro... !!!! Do you remember who exhibited the epi pseudoepi? Jean


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## Kavanaru (Mar 24, 2010)

JeanLux said:


> Do you remember who exhibited the epi pseudoepi? Jean


I need to check at home, but I think it was also from Botanical Garden Zurich (need to check..)


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## Kavanaru (Mar 24, 2010)

yeap! Botanical Garden Zurich!


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## Roth (Mar 24, 2010)

Kavanaru said:


> Maybe, but the plant shown in Thun was not a multigrowth (that's another reason for me to think that what I heard was not true and this is not the same plant used for the description) On the other hand, knowing this plant comes from the nursery where Paph xglanzii was "discovered" and described, I don't think this one comes the Australian nursery, but more that it has been produced in Germany. How the original plant came to Germany might be a different story...




Franz Glanz sources many plants from that Austrian nursery actually and I was there 3 years ago when he bought trays of micranthum x emersonii...


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## JeanLux (Mar 25, 2010)

Kavanaru said:


> yeap! Botanical Garden Zurich!



Thanks Ramon!! Just asked because I think Schronen was there too, and I know that he has some of these monsterplants! Jean


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## Kavanaru (Mar 25, 2010)

Sanderianum said:


> Franz Glanz sources many plants from that Austrian nursery actually and I was there 3 years ago when he bought trays of micranthum x emersonii...



sorry, I originally read Australian nursery 

might be, but the plant is still not a multigrowth (as you mentioned) and as far as I know FG has also bred his xglanzii... so it could also be his own plant... 

My point is that I personally do not think that all, absolutelly ALL, Paphiopedilum plants on this world go through "conspiration theory"-threads, malintended mislabellings, illegal threads, and so on... in other words, let's say I am the "Agent Scully" in this story... Please do not misunderstand me, nothing personal against you or your comments, and I appreciate that in many cases you may have good fundaments for your comments and a good knowledge in the field... maybe it's me being "too naïve", but I also tend to believe some people do things right, and it's difficult for me to believe in omnipotence or a single person having the absolut knowledge and truth about everything on this world, no matter if it happens in Taiwan, China, Japan, Australia, Germany, France, Zimbawe, Canada, USA, Argentina or Timbuktuk... (that's also one of the reasons why I do not believe in God)


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## UweM (Mar 25, 2010)

..allways the same problems:

a "new" discovered plant get a name (xglanzii) and looks like a artificially cross. Whats the name of this cross - I think not xglanzii.

It will be interest to see the childreens of the real xglanzii

http://www.orchid.or.jp/orchid/people/tanaka/orchid/org/shinshu/shinshu45.html


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## Kavanaru (Mar 25, 2010)

UweM said:


> ..allways the same problems:
> 
> a "new" discovered plant get a name (xglanzii) and looks like a artificially cross. Whats the name of this cross - I think not xglanzii.
> 
> ...



Paph xglanzii is believed to be the natural hybrid between emersonii x micranthum. Natural hybrids occur "pretty" often (note: I do not refer to number of individual plants in nature, but more to the number natural hybrids between different orchid species!). The artificial hybrid is registered as Paph Lola Bird. A picture of it is in the article you have linked to your post (at the very bottom)

Opposite to artificial hybrids, the name of natural hybrids is not capitalized and should start with "x" (I have seen pretty often this "x" rule not used in orchids, so I cannot say how strict it is followed - it is also not applied in RHS when they give reference to natural hybrids)


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## Roth (Mar 25, 2010)

Kavanaru said:


> sorry, I originally read Australian nursery
> might be, but the plant is still not a multigrowth (as you mentioned) and as far as I know FG has also bred his xglanzii... so it could also be his own plant...



I checked with Austria, they had a lot of plants blooming size and in bud, and they get the visit of Franz Glanz about 2-4 times a year, period.

If you want a picture of one of the blooming size plants from their new batch, here it is:

http://cgi.ebay.de/Paphiopedilum-glanzii-(micranthum-x-emersonii)_W0QQitemZ380181203255QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20091215?IMSfp=TL091215169005r21085



> My point is that I personally do not think that all, absolutelly ALL, Paphiopedilum plants on this world go through "conspiration theory"-threads, malintended mislabellings, illegal threads, and so on... in other words, let's say I am the "Agent Scully" in this story...



Definitely not, but let's say a fair share of the worldwide market, that would fit the bill.

From the micranthum flasks story that I was the witness in Taiwan up to the besseae 'Wings of Fire' x self sold worldwide, there are a lot of plants that are sold and not true to their names or their parentage. It's a business, there are some fair players, and a lot that are absolutely not. Add esquirolei Atlas, Taka, and the grand champion of the World Orchid Conference in Dijon that were not esquirolei but complex pot plant hybrids that look like esquirolei, and you can get an idea about what's going one.

Think about the future too. Apparently we have lost lawrenceanum album in cultivation because some people, 30-40 years ago, wanted to make big bucks and called a linebred Maudiae lawrenceanum 'Tradition', and you get the bill. Superbiens album? I am not pretty sure there are any real ones anymore. Why I can claim that? Because I selfed some of those stuff, bloomed them to 'select' and ended up with a massive fuckup of hybrids and intergrade. Not many, but enough to know that those were bogus. The chamberlainianum or glaucophyllum that are hybrids are another case in point.



> Please do not misunderstand me, nothing personal against you or your comments, and I appreciate that in many cases you may have good fundaments for your comments and a good knowledge in the field... maybe it's me being "too naïve", but I also tend to believe some people do things right, and it's difficult for me to believe in omnipotence or a single person having the absolut knowledge and truth about everything on this world, no matter if it happens in Taiwan, China, Japan, Australia, Germany, France, Zimbawe, Canada, USA, Argentina or Timbuktuk... (that's also one of the reasons why I do not believe in God)



Omnipotence, I would never have the pretention. The fact that I know most of the people in this field, and many in situations that have never been made public, that's the truth. The fact too that a lot of sellers want to get flasks and plants from me, giving me sometimes, or most of the time, the real story behind some plants. Why so? Because if I buy the wrong plants from them, maybe I will not sell to them later flasks or exchange divisions. Maybe as well because we traveled together, or because I helped them for various matters...



Kavanaru said:


> Paph xglanzii is believed to be the natural hybrid between emersonii x micranthum. Natural hybrids occur "pretty" often (note: I do not refer to number of individual plants in nature, but more to the number natural hybrids between different orchid species!).



xGlanzii occurs only in Ha Giang, Vietnam. Franz Glanz plant comes from there in fact but for the detailed history of that plant I put a joker  ( another joker for the accuracy of the parentage he gives sometimes for his seedlings )

They find about 10-20 plants each year in that area. The remake with micranthum Kwangsee x emersonii looks exactly in terms of color and shape like the natural hybrid. That's the remake they have in Austria, and they have thousands of them - and many blooming size delenatii albums, delenatii dunkel, besseae flavums, besseae, etc.. come from that nursery as well.

Visit the nursery, it's close to Linz, and then you can understand from where many German paphs and phrags are coming from. But that nursery will not put the SM/DOG, BDSM, etc... on the parents, they are honest for that. They are even doing thousands of cypripedium seedlings. 

I can say I have been there a couple years ago when they got the coldest winter ever in Germany, with a very famous German nurseryman. 

The CD player of the auto was blocked on a single track, and no way to remove the damn CD, singing 'Mein Kaktus ist in blute, das ist schooooooooone' the whole freaking way and we had to borrow from the restaurant on the road a knife to fix the problem.

We had to wait in Bavaria stuck with the car for a day, and we went to visit Franz Glanz at the same time on the way back. :evil: :evil: :evil:

I respect Franz Glanz as a grower, he has amazing culture, especially for the multiflorals.


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## valenzino (Mar 25, 2010)

I think sanderianum is right about xglanzii...to make understand,the gold medal in WOC Paph. hangianum x leucochilum from FG is from same nursery in reality...i bought also some of this plants that will flower in few months(already can see sheaths)...
Unfortunately I have experienced also some fake plants from them so...
what is very high in request sometimes is better not to buy....


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