# Berlusconi on the way out



## Stone (Nov 8, 2011)

Congratulations to Italy!
This self serving ceep is finally going:clap::clap::clap::clap:


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## Stone (Nov 8, 2011)

Creep that is.


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## valenzino (Nov 9, 2011)

Stone,I'm Italian and I dont know....be happy...be worried...
Shurely I will have a party the day he really goes...
but the other choices can be even worst....on a side Politics in Italy are like a Lobby,and they dont care about the wealth of the peoples...they care only about votes...and their wealth...So we have a lot of small Berlusconi as politicians in Italy...on a side he was a big buissness man and so he had knowledge on how to do money...the future ones...maybe self serving creeps without buissness knowledge.


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## Stone (Nov 9, 2011)

HI Valenzino,
I have a sister living in Genoa, I don't no all the details regarding Berlusconi's
buisiness dealings but from what I hear, most people over there are pleased that he is going? I think whatever happens, a beautiful and important country like Italy will survive. Good luck and enjoy your orchids!


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## Rick (Nov 9, 2011)

Whether its Italy, Spain, Greece, USA......50% of the population is too young to work or too old and sick to work, and business making robots faster than people to replace anyone in the right age group who want to work.

Old people paid into retirement with 1950's $, but getting paid in retirement and health costs in 2011 $$$$ and lots of pension systems went bust when the stock markets took the big dumper in the previous recession.

Austerity isn't to trim the fat out of government, but to suck any accumulated wealth out of the older non working demographics.

The right wing won't admit it, but they yearn for the good old days when grandma and grandpa crapped out by 65 before they had a chance to burn up their pensions and suck up health benefits.


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## Stone (Nov 9, 2011)

You can include oz in that list of countries.
Our population is ageing fast with no-one to replace it so gov.is desperate for money. They tried to tax the western mining companies with a super- profits tax, but they kicked up a big fuss so now they've introduced a Co2 tax which will
end up sucking even more $$ from the little guy and raise my fule bill yet again. And all this from a socialist gov!!.


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## valenzino (Nov 10, 2011)

No difference between right and left wings....as history speak very loudly about it..
is only matter of money and power...
..and democracy,like is in italy,is only a "dictatorship of many" instead of one...

...europe as Italy...politics are ass lickers of banks and oil companies...or are the sae peoples that got oil companies, banks and other multinational groups...
...so how a name at the head of a government can change the system...

In Italy the left wing based all her effort and campaigns on destroyng Berlusconi(helped by him and his way of acting),and not on a serious project...now that Berlusca is down...they have no plans made and dont know how to rule!And also the left italian wing is an impossible aggregation of many different thinking peoples that now will splitt up and loose its power,for 2 reasons:
1)The end of the motivation that have put tem together
2)the rush for power
...


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## cnycharles (Nov 14, 2011)

sounds sadly familiar... here most politicians regardless of parties just want to get into office to 'play the game', and don't care what they say to get there. it's a fun game for them to brainwash people into thinking there is a difference between them, when they all have their hands in the same cookie jar. often they are so intent on getting into office that they really don't have an idea about what to do when they get there, other than find some important friends to tag and vote along with


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## Roth (Nov 14, 2011)

Stone said:


> Congratulations to Italy!
> This self serving ceep is finally going:clap::clap::clap::clap:



For some reasons he will be missed too  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkDp-6t-keA


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## tomkalina (Nov 14, 2011)

I agree with all this......seems like a real mess world-wide. it seems the only thing we can do in the U.S. to "right the boat" is to vote out whoever comes up for re-election in 2012 - from the President on down. Then (maybe... just maybe) the ones that are left will get the message that we are sick of this constant grid-lock between the parties. Doesn't make any difference whether you're a Democrat or Republican, vote that same way if you want to, but let's send a strong message to those that are left. We want results......and 2014 is another election.....can't result in any more chaos than we have now....

Also, with most countries in the world (including ours) having serious debt problems and our states on the verge of bankruptcy, someone has to ask the question "Where's all the money "? Where did it go? Maybe some smart PhD candidate will write the thesis to explain it all.....someday.... 

Sorry for the rant, but I feel like we are losing control of a government that used to be pretty (somewhat?) more capable of making sense to those of us who have to work for a living....

Thanks,


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## Rick (Nov 14, 2011)

tomkalina said:


> I agree with all this......seems like a real mess world-wide. it seems the only thing we can do in the U.S. to "right the boat" is to vote out whoever comes up for re-election in 2012 - from the President on down. Then (maybe... just maybe) the ones that are left will get the message that we are sick of this constant grid-lock between the parties. Doesn't make any difference whether you're a Democrat or Republican, vote that same way if you want to, but let's send a strong message to those that are left. We want results......and 2014 is another election.....can't result in any more chaos than we have now....



Unfortunately I think the only alternative to grid lock is to become the United States of Exon Mobil:sob:


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## poozcard (Nov 15, 2011)

cheer up valenzino

there is nothing different here in Thailand.
let me know when you arrived ok?


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## SlipperFan (Nov 15, 2011)

So you are going to vote out the current President and replace him with -- one of the Republicans who want to take his place? What a joke! Those right-wingers are among the 1% who caused all the problems in the first place. 

Of course, the 99% voted for those in power -- just shows that it takes an uninformed and gullible electorate. Which is what we have.


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## Stone (Nov 15, 2011)

In response to all the cheering at his departure, Berlusconi said '' THIS IS WHAT I GET AFTER EVERYTHING THAT I HAVE DONE FOR THEM '':rollhappy::rollhappy::rollhappy:


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## tomkalina (Nov 16, 2011)

Hi Dot,

Since we don't have term limits for these clowns, it's the only way I can think of to send the message that we're sick of all this. The problem with Obama IMHO is that he focussed on the wrong thing (Health Care Reform) when he had a Democratic controlled congress instead of the economy/jobs issue. Obama is just the second Democrat I've voted for for President- the first one was John Kennedy - so I guess I'm just a dis-illusioned Independent at heart. Romney's looking pretty good about now......but they all seem to look good until they get in office......


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## SlipperFan (Nov 16, 2011)

I'm an independent, also, Tom -- with progressive leanings. The problem with Obama isn't that he focused on the wrong thing. It's that he tried too hard to meet in the middle, and ended up caving to the right wing. He also tried too hard to just throw money at our problems. I wish he'd taken a cue from FDR, who really had a plan for getting this country back on track. Successfully so.
You like Romney? Have you actually listened to what he's said?
All that said, I really wish we had a third party, because both the Dems and the Repubs are much too tied to the moneyed interests in this country. The Dems have potential, but most of them don't have the guts to stand up for what is right, or what they say they believe in.


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## Marc (Nov 17, 2011)

Yesterday I visisted an uncle of mine, while we were leaving I noticed that the house across the street had a flag hanging. So I asked what it was all about.

My uncle told me that the women that lived in that house was italian and she had hung that flag the moment that Berlusconi resigned.


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## Roth (Nov 17, 2011)

tomkalina said:


> Also, with most countries in the world (including ours) having serious debt problems and our states on the verge of bankruptcy, someone has to ask the question "Where's all the money "? Where did it go? Maybe some smart PhD candidate will write the thesis to explain it all.....someday....



Easy answer, the money is nowhere, because most of that money did not exist in the first place.

There is more money in the financial system than there is actually. At present time many things are overpriced, many are underpriced, this stands true for the stock markets, bonds, etc... When some traders play here or there, the stocks go up or down, but this does not reflect a real performance of any given company. Some company with low stocks value are excellent, some with high stocks value are just scams.

What Madoff has done, that's what all the stock markets and banks of the world are doing, in a join-venture, for ages. The day people want to get hardcore cash out of their stocks, bonds, investments... then the whole system will collapse to nothing.

It did on small scales all over Asia. In Asia, when people can make profit, they do it like crazy. So when new stock markets opened, or people got interest in stock markets ( like in Thailand), the stocks value go up to the sky, without knowing in fact what the corporate is really doing. Because someone buys one thousands share, the costs raises by 10%, so several people will buy each 1000 stocks right now, and the cost raises by 20%. Some people sell with a 25% profit, so the cost raise to 30%. I have seen crazy things in the Vietnam Stock market, that ended up in many people being bankrupt last year, having to sell their houses. It was a new stock market, so the actors were not as clever to hide the truth as the US or European ones can be. 

Basically, in the early days ( now the government has regulated and is watching very carefully), anyone could open a company and put its shares on the stock market. Even a company at home with nothing inside, just a name, a so-called purpose, one office, nothing else. The price would raise, raise, raise, at that point the 'owner' would sell the company and cash in a big profit, but the company is in fact just a piece of paper with some crap appended.

Many companies like that opened, in Vietnam, China, Thailand... and the shares value would raise sky high, up to some thousands dollars each for some of them. Then, when the people had enough money in stocks to buy a house, they would sell the stocks to buy a house or a land. They went to sell back their stocks. The first ones got their money, very few lucky ones. All the others got the reply 'sorry, there is no money to give to you'. The stocks would collapse from some thousands USD to 1-2USD within minutes, I have seen it myself. Dozens of thousands of Vietnamese went bankrupt at that time, or borderline. The same happened decades ago in Thailand too.

However, many people did not invest money from their work. They borrowed the banks ( who incidentally ran all the stock market services and took a profit on each trade), with a 15-20% yearly interest, a minimum amount to borrow ( usually 20.000USD), and no possibilities to pay before the deadline (so 20.000USD, the people were FORCED to pay back 24.000USD). The banks, at the end of the day, got many houses, and a lot of real hardcore cash out of this scheme. They lent numbers on pieces of paper, and now they want to get banknotes and real cash. It happens all over the world, all the time, on a small scale, but not yet on a very large scale. It is just a matter of time.

At a point, there were dozens of billions of USD worth in stocks in Vietnam. From one day to the next one, it vanished. Now, where is the money, well, it did not exist in the first place. But as it was possible to borrow money on a stocks account, people could have some millions USD in stocks (not that rare at that time), borrow some hundreds thousands USD out of it to buy land, the price of the land raised an absolute craziness, with some lands in Hanoi being sold for 100.000USD/square meter right now (that makes 50 square meters for 5 millions USD, not a mistake). Many people had so much money, they would offer any price to buy anything, because the profit on the stock market was dozens to hundreds times the investment within weeks. Put 1000USD, get 100.000USD 6 months later was quite realistic and common in the early days.

The virtual money from the stocks would go to a virtual account, to buy the land, and be transferred to another virtual account ( the seller's one), who would most likely buy stocks, or more land. As a result, a lot of money never existed really. When it collapsed, it has been a disaster ( but the land price never went down, it is still one of the most expensive prices in the world, way over Tokyo even for some parts of Hanoi, I have been offered a 120 square meter apartment for 15.000.000USD, and in fact it has been sold to a pharmacy owner hours later :noangel.

As for most countries being poorer and poorer, not at all. In Asia, there are heaps of fortunes, because they never pay the taxes according to their income. The profit is pure profit. That's why too some Chinese from the Wenzhou community can buy nearly complete streets in Paris, as they do now, or some people from Saigon buy houses and apartments in London, it's so cheap... 

Now they even buy a lot in the USA, because it is really, really damn cheap to buy there (just had a discussion with some Hanoian fortunes a couple of days ago at the dinner, they bought an apartment in New York, a house in LA). 

An US citizen who wants to buy has to earn the money, pay his taxes, then buy. in Asia, people would do some business, bring the money over and buy instant, that's quite easy. Same for European people, we earn the money, pay the taxes, cannot reduce our workers in slavery to earn more, so we cannot compete, and it will be worse and worse. Incidentally, I still cannot figure why there is no reciprocity in a way between countries regarding buying houses. A Chinese can buy many apartments in France, but a French cannot buy anything in China...

A couple of years ago, in an Asian country I have been only twice yet, I have been offered by a very cute, educated girl, her husband and their childrens, during a dinner after a big purchase of orchids, if I could meet one of her friends. I did, got another cute, well dressed, Louis Vuitton etc... girl. She asked me if I have contacts with my relatives in France ( a part of my family are doctors, lab directors, surgeons). So they already knew a lot about me before I came. Then she explained to me that many foreigners went with local girls over the years, including blacks, caucasians, etc... 

She already had a good market with another Asian country (thanks to Japanese soldiers during the WWII, she knew EVERYTHING about transplants), but she knew that it was possible to find an endless mine of organs for transplants, including liver, heart... She knew a lot, even the prices, the delay, how to smuggle the things, the stabilizing solutions. 

She knew too it was possible to get money forever from the customers for the anti rejects medicines, she knew the names, the dangers of some like vincristine, and she was not a doctor. She knew too that the 'customers' could never ask in their countries for such chemicals without being heavily questioned, so she managed a smuggling network to get those in.

it was a real business, not a 'fake' or a 'scam'. She asked me if I could find 'customers for the business' in France. 

I spoke with some officials after, they told and WHAT??? It's business, anyway those half half people are a waste, so if their relatives can get money out of them, why not...

I just found back that cute girl with the LV bags, she is now doing a 'give money for childrens and villages' in Asia. Still studying how to screw her, I will succeed one of those days. But she is exceedingly rich now, owns some resorts all over Asia, and is popular. She even made an interview in a financial Newspaper in Singapore about how to manage real estate businesses, and is giving lessons on how she became rich. She was poor a decade ago, sold organs, and here she is, that's the truth. But a bunch of 'economists' study her, and her 'cookbook for success'.

There is a whole underground economy, that must remain hidden in Europe or the USA, they can never buy stocks, never buy houses openly. 

However, in some Asian countries, it is accepted as business, and those people invest in France, Europe, the USA... We even applause some of those people as ' top XXX fortunes', made of one third corruption, one third smuggling and very, very dirty crap, one third of work, so they would be stupid not to do so. We get a problem in our economies from that.


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