# Spider mites! Please help!



## orchideya (Mar 29, 2012)

When watering my paphs I noticed some silvery trace on my paph bellatulum. I looked at the leaves with good light and found microscopic spots all over the leaf, just like small sunken dots.
After some research I diagnosed it as spider mites infestation. All my paphs are standing together in the basement, so I have checked all and found similar traces and spots on many, including malipoense with growing bud :sob:

What insecticide that is available in Canada would you recommend?
I read threads here about one from First Rays, but it is in USA.
What good do we have here?
I think i need to treat all of them, even the ones that don't show damage now. Is it safe to use on budding plants? 
Good thing my new paphs from the show are still quarantined upstairs.

Thank you.


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## SlipperFan (Mar 29, 2012)

Check with Ray -- he may be able to send Sucra-Shield to Canada. Otherwise, maybe Google will be able to tell you who has it in Canada.


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## Stone (Mar 29, 2012)

Orchideya, Until you find a miticide, you can use alchohol/water 50/50 with a few drops of dishwashing liquid and spray this under, over the leaves and pots. I have brought mites under control doing this and it does not hurt the plants. You must repeat 3 or 4 times once/week. It will not kill mites that you don't spray directly. It will also kill/control bacteria and fungus.


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## Paphman910 (Mar 29, 2012)

Have you tried Safer's Endall?

Paphman910


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## Stone (Mar 29, 2012)

Paphman910 said:


> Have you tried Safer's Endall?
> 
> Paphman910



Is that the insecticidal soap Paphman?


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## orchideya (Mar 29, 2012)

Stone said:


> Orchideya, Until you find a miticide, you can use alchohol/water 50/50 with a few drops of dishwashing liquid and spray this under, over the leaves and pots. I have brought mites under control doing this and it does not hurt the plants. You must repeat 3 or 4 times once/week. It will not kill mites that you don't spray directly. It will also kill/control bacteria and fungus.




Thank you,
I will try this.


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## orchideya (Mar 29, 2012)

Paphman910 said:


> Have you tried Safer's Endall?
> 
> Paphman910



Paphman910, I never tried anything since it is my first experience with mites.
I had brown scale on vandas and managed to win with dishwashing liquid, although I think I damaged the leaves surface with high concentration, it looks sort of rough now and has lots of black patches.
I had mealies on Angraecum sesquipedale and killed them with alcohol swabing.
Mites seem to be the nastiest and need chemicals. Am I right?


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## orchideya (Mar 29, 2012)

I didn't find Endall, but there is Safer's Rose and Flowers Insecticide at HD:
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/rode-flower-insect-killer-1l-rtu/909578
Would that one work?
What is neem oil used for?
Thanks again.


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## Rick (Mar 29, 2012)

Also how much air humidity do you have in your growing area?

Unless these are the tropical spider mites, the typical mites are often symptomatic of dry conditions.

They have real problems surviving at the higher humidity levels favored by orchids.


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## Wendy (Mar 29, 2012)

I use 10-15 ml of horticultural oil in a litre of water. It has emulsifier already in it so a good shake and it is well mixed. I use an electric paint sprayer to apply it, as it makes a nice fine foggy mist, but you can use a small pump spray bottle just as well. Not toxic and no unpleasant smell (as in neem oil) so it can be used indoors.


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## Paphman910 (Mar 30, 2012)

orchideya said:


> I didn't find Endall, but there is Safer's Rose and Flowers Insecticide at HD:
> http://www.homedepot.ca/product/rode-flower-insect-killer-1l-rtu/909578
> Would that one work?
> What is neem oil used for?
> Thanks again.



Should work as well! You will have treat it once a week to kill the mites and wait another week to spray again to kill the newly emerged mites and then again a week later!

Pot growers has lots of trouble with mites and they regularly post on forums about mites. They use EndAll.

Wendy suggested horticultural oil and that works the same!

Paphman910


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## orchideya (Mar 30, 2012)

Thank you! extermination is planned on tomorrow - Saturday, beware mites!
Just couple questions on the procedure.
Do I spray the whole plant, even the buds?
Should I cover the pot so media doesn't get sprayed, or media SHOULD be sprayed too?
Do I spray and leave it, or wash it off after some time?
Thanks a lot


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## Erythrone (Mar 30, 2012)

After reducing the number of mites with oil or soap, maybe you should introduce auxillaries like this one:

http://www.naturalinsectcontrol.com/product.php?id=000000321

I must say I use Botanigard for thrips and mealybugs control on Paphs. So I don't introduce auxillaries on them. But I introduce auxillaries regularly on the other plants (including the mite predators, and only once a year. They are very effective for me)


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## Paphman910 (Mar 30, 2012)

orchideya said:


> Thank you! extermination is planned on tomorrow - Saturday, beware mites!
> Just couple questions on the procedure.
> Do I spray the whole plant, even the buds?
> Should I cover the pot so media doesn't get sprayed, or media SHOULD be sprayed too?
> ...



You spray the whole plant: leaf, stem, buds! You don't need to spray medium! A little spray on the medium won't affect the plant! You don't need to cover the medium up to spray it!

Spray and leave it, does not have to be washed off! 

You may want to wear a breathing mask as it can make you cough if you breathe in the spray by accident!

Paphman910


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## Wendy (Mar 30, 2012)

I make sure the whole plant is covered...however I am careful spraying buds and flowers as they can be damaged. Horticultural oil is my choice as it helps combat the dry indoor air humidity. I don't use a mask with a hand sprayer but I do when using the electric paint sprayer as it creates a fine mist. There's no need to wipe the leaves as long as you don't overdo an oil application. I should also add that I repeat this treatment once a month. Don't worry about getting it on the medium.

If it is just spider mites you are treating there is no need to use an insecticide. The oil will create a moist environment and they only live in low humidity.


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## Paph_LdyMacBeth (Mar 31, 2012)

I second Wendy's suggestions. 
One more suggestion is that you block the light source or turn the lights off for the day you spray. The reason why I suggest this is because the oil can magnify the heat and intensity of the light and sometimes cause burns. You don't want to spray at night though because it can cause rot if stuck in the crowns.


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## Justin (Mar 31, 2012)

Have you seen any actual mites? Use a jeweller's loupe to find them.

Be careful if spraying with dish detergent, it needs to be very dilute or it can damage Paph leaves. With hort oil also don't spray with lights on.

I have found the pyrethrin with horticultural oil is very effective on mites for a small collection.


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## orchideya (Mar 31, 2012)

Thank you for the advices. I didn't actually see the mites, just traces of their existance.
Well, I have done it already. I did it in the basement sink, the light there is not so bright. I found Safer's Endall at Rona store, the concentrated version. I dilluted it in the water as instruction suggests and sprayed plants all over. My paphs share the space witn masdies, so I sprayed them too.
Now I am thinking to spray my catts and vandas, they are actually far from paphs, but sometimes meet with them during watering.
Would it hurt them? Also how phals would react to Safer's Endall. I feel like spraying every orchid in a house.


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## Justin (Mar 31, 2012)

you should wait a few days to ensure there is no phytotoxicity.


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## cnycharles (Mar 31, 2012)

um, I may be too late, but don't use bayer rose and flower to treat mites. if it is their imidacloprid product, the systemic chemical imidacloprid doesn't kill mites and has the unfortunate side-effect of causing the mites to have a population explosion! definitely an odd result of using a pesticide....


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## SlipperFan (Mar 31, 2012)

Charles is right: imidacloprid is great for scale and mealies, but it won't kill mites.


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## orchideya (Apr 4, 2012)

I used Safer's Endall which is marked as miticide. I didn't find the list of ingredients on the bottle though.
The plants look fine now, almost 4 days after treatment. Three paphs with buds didn't drop them yet, I keep my fingers crossed, because I brutally sprayed the buds too.
The label said to repeat after 10 days if needed. How do I know if it is indeed needed?
Thanks again.


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## Paphman910 (Apr 4, 2012)

cnycharles said:


> um, I may be too late, but don't use bayer rose and flower to treat mites. if it is their imidacloprid product, the systemic chemical imidacloprid doesn't kill mites and has the unfortunate side-effect of causing the mites to have a population explosion! definitely an odd result of using a pesticide....




It is not bayer's brand of Rose and Flower and it doesn't have imidacloprid in it!

Paphman910


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## Paphman910 (Apr 4, 2012)

orchideya said:


> I used Safer's Endall which is marked as miticide. I didn't find the list of ingredients on the bottle though.
> The plants look fine now, almost 4 days after treatment. Three paphs with buds didn't drop them yet, I keep my fingers crossed, because I brutally sprayed the buds too.
> The label said to repeat after 10 days if needed. How do I know if it is indeed needed?
> Thanks again.



Even if you don't see the mites do repeat it again to kill the youngster that hatched from eggs.

Paphman910


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## cnycharles (Apr 5, 2012)

Paphman910 said:


> It is not bayer's brand of Rose and Flower and it doesn't have imidacloprid in it!
> 
> Paphman910



ah


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## Yoyo_Jo (Apr 5, 2012)

As far as I know, we can't buy Bayers products here in Canada anyway. I emailed them in 2007 looking for Bayer Advanced All-in-One Rose & Flower Care and that's what they indicated back then...


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## Fawkes (Apr 8, 2012)

Unless you have a widespread infestation, I have never found chemicals to be useful for spider mites. They reproduce so fast that they can become tolerant of repetitive ttreatments. Take the plant to the sink and spray the unerside of the leaves with water. Repeat every 2-3 days for a week or two.

I would make sure they are mites - mites usually pick thin leaved plants. Paphs don't fit that profile.


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## Rick (Apr 8, 2012)

Paphman910 said:


> It is not bayer's brand of Rose and Flower and it doesn't have imidacloprid in it!
> 
> Paphman910



Yes Bayer Rose and Flower has imidacloprid (Merrit) in it. Actually a couple of other Bayer products have Merrit in higher % than in "Rose and Flower".

Rose and Flower is already diluted down to recommended use rate. There must be a licensing issue why they can call it Merrit in some of their products, but call it by the generic name in Rose and Flower.


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## cnycharles (Apr 9, 2012)

Merit is the 'nursery' licensed product; can't be used in greenhouses or interiorscapes (legally). it is much cheaper than the sprayed and other ones labeled for greenhouses (marathon). I wonder what they have against greenhouse growers why they overcharge them so much?


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## SlipperFan (Apr 10, 2012)

Fawkes said:


> Unless you have a widespread infestation, I have never found chemicals to be useful for spider mites. They reproduce so fast that they can become tolerant of repetitive ttreatments. Take the plant to the sink and spray the unerside of the leaves with water. Repeat every 2-3 days for a week or two.
> 
> I would make sure they are mites - mites usually pick thin leaved plants. Paphs don't fit that profile.



All I can tell you is that red spider mites attacked my Phals and my Paphs one year.


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## orchideya (Apr 11, 2012)

I didn't use Bayer, it was Safer's.

Well, I didn't actually see any bugs, but I found some sticky substance on the purpuratum leaves, some silvery streaks on the bellatulum and malipoense and some little pricks (sunken spots) on couple others. And I know it wasn't there before. Since all my paphs are sort of crowded together plus masdies - I sprayed everything and last weekend repeated the treatment.
I have several paphs with buds and was afraid they will blast after two sprayings, but (knock on the wood) they are still plump. Here is bellatulum for example:







Maybe they will bloom after all.

Do you think I should repeat one more time?


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## Paphman910 (Apr 11, 2012)

Nice bloom! Hope it opens for everyone to see! Spray one more time just to be sure!

Paphman910


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## surachais Thai (May 19, 2012)

in my country,Thailand. 
I made a recommended follow IRAC mode of action (MoA) recommendation (www.irac-online.com>>>resources>>>moa_mite poster)

Group 12 Inhibitors of mitochondrial ATP synthase (growth regulator)
12B _Fenbutatine oxide_..........Torque
12C _Propargite_....................Omite
12D _Tetradifon_....................Tedion V18

Group 19 Octopamine receptor agonists (nerve action)
......_Amitraz_........................Mitac

Group 21 Mitocondrial complex I electron transport inhibitors (energy metabolism)
21A _Fenazaquin_...................Totem
......_Fenpyroximate_...............Ortus
......_Pyridaben_.....................Sanmite
......_Tebufenpyrad_................Pyranica 

Group 23 Inhibitors of Acetyl CoA carboxylase (growth regulator lipid synthase)
......_Spirodiclofen_.................Oberon 

choose one chemical in each group,alternate MoA in each spray, spraying cover underside of the leaves where mite occur,repeat 2 - 3 times for good control.


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## Yoyo_Jo (May 19, 2012)

LOL! I don't know what all those chemicals are, but I'm thinking there's not a chance in hell they're available legally to the average orchid grower here in Canada!


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