# Library



## NYEric (Jan 16, 2011)

I have to fill in the application to join the AOS student judging program and one of the questions is about my _"Library"_! 
Beside Rebecca Nothern's book and Pridgeon's Illustrated Encyclopedia I honestly dont have many orchid books. I know I need to become more familiar with Catt/Dendrobium/and Phal hybrids [and complex paphs], can anyone recommend good current books or should I just buy and study AQ+?


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## Orchidnut57 (Jan 16, 2011)

Eric
I have found most of my books on the 'Bargin Books' bin at all independent book stores...for a few dollars. Here are a few I have picked up over time that are worth while
Orchids for Dummies Steven Frowine $16.
The Practical Ency of Orchids Brian & Wilma Rittershausen $ 5.
The International Book of Orchids Francis Hunt $ 9.
Orchids For Everyone $ 4.95
A lot of the satelite book stores inside malls have the best deals
I am a book person so in my world one can not have enough
Good luck with your studies and application

Later
jim


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## Ernie (Jan 16, 2011)

Helps to have some non-general books. Like books on specific genera or taxonomy. Hawkes is a "bible" to lots of judges, but it is getting dated by the minute. Unfortunately, lots of these big monograps are very expensive and hard to find. Be sure to list Orchids mag and O Digest if you get them. What they're hoping to see is that you are well read and knowledgable on many different genera. 

Honestly, the BEST way IMO to nudge into the system is to PARTICIPATE. Clerk at show ribbon judging. Set up displays. Sit in on judging. Car pool to events with judges. Go to society meetings. The better they know you and how sincere you are, the better chance you'll have of being accepted first app. In Chi, we had to be visible for at least six months before they'd even take an app. And don't just sit in the corner. Get involved. Get on teams with captins that will let you score and discuss (talk to the chair to hedge your bets). It also demonstrates your willingness and commitment to invest the time required. If someone shows up once or twice, they still go for the novelty. If you keep going six or twelve months straight, they have a better idea you won't drop out. If you do stuff and chip in, it'll count way more than the biggest library would.


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## NYEric (Jan 16, 2011)

Thanx, I have been clerking a few shows a year since 2000. I will have to go to the judgings more frequently, and maybe visit other centers also.


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## Ernie (Jan 16, 2011)

You should be consistent. Anyone can go once in a while. Judges are usually expected to go almost always. That's what will set you ahead of the casual observer.


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## Kevin (Jan 16, 2011)

NYEric said:


> Thanx, I have been clerking a few shows a year since 2000. I will have to go to the judgings more frequently, and maybe visit other centers also.



Come to Winnipeg for our show in March! That will show dedication!


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## Ernie (Jan 16, 2011)

Kevin said:


> Come to Winnipeg for our show in March! That will show dedication!



No crap! Where -40F certainly does equal -40C! I'll miss you guys! You have one helluva weekend!!! Prime rib & Yorkshite pudding, YUM! Still willing to come up if you need me to. Who does Lorne have picked out?


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## Kevin (Jan 16, 2011)

I'm not sure who we have off hand, but I think they are all Canadian. The weather is great in March, though. Nothing to worry about, right Ernie? oke: Really wish you could gome back. Glad to hear you are willing, but it's just the cost...


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## Rick (Jan 16, 2011)

Ernie said:


> You should be consistent. Anyone can go once in a while. Judges are usually expected to go almost always. That's what will set you ahead of the casual observer.



Maybe there's specific rules for every center, but I thought the Atlanta center had stipulations for student judge showing up to the center about 8 out of 12 months for their center judgings, and attending at least 3 or so shows per year. I may be off on the exact number, but it was more than I could commit to before retirement.

Atlanta and Cincinnati are the closest centers to me, and both 4 or so hours away. So it would make a big difference if I was in the same town.


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## Darin (Jan 16, 2011)

Dont forget, Your "Books" can be electronic. There are lots of old books scanned into .PDF that are public domain and can count towards the size of your library. There used to be several good ones on slipperinfo.


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## cnycharles (Jan 16, 2011)

hey, you can student judge our show next october! we usually have three judges from the nyc area who come up in addition to most of montreal, and student judges usually are brought along to get experience (and they love that we take them out to dinner the night they arrive... and that we let them buy wine!)

also consider that, if you were a member of a local society you would have access to books in their library and can sign them out/put those on your list


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## mormodes (Jan 17, 2011)

NYEric said:


> I have to fill in the application to join the AOS student judging program and one of the questions is about my _"Library"_!
> Beside Rebecca Nothern's book and Pridgeon's Illustrated Encyclopedia I honestly dont have many orchid books. I know I need to become more familiar with Catt/Dendrobium/and Phal hybrids [and complex paphs], can anyone recommend good current books or should I just buy and study AQ+?



If you are joining the judging program as a student you *have* to buy AQ+ as a part of the program. As well as be a member in good standing in the AOS...

Don't forget back issues of any magazines count as a library, too.


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## NYEric (Jan 17, 2011)

Thanx all, I have to rush the applicaton because I will be able to do Deep Cut and SEPOS and Montreal shows within 3 months. I am waiting until the internet friendly version of AQ+ comes out before I buy it.


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## cnycharles (Jan 17, 2011)

NYEric said:


> Thanx all, I have to rush the applicaton because I will be able to do Deep Cut and SEPOS and Montreal shows within 3 months. I am waiting until the internet friendly version of AQ+ comes out before I buy it.



when is the montreal show?


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## NYEric (Jan 18, 2011)

March a few weeks after SEPOS this time.


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## aquacorps (Jan 18, 2011)

Eric, Try to get on a judging team with Howard Ginsberg. He is a great guy and knows his phals and catts.


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## NYEric (Jan 18, 2011)

At which venue?


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## Kevin (Jan 19, 2011)

I assume he's talking about Montreal. Howard is a character. You two should get along well.oke: His business is http://www.bedfordorchids.com/

By the way, I was serious about you coming to our show. Unfortunately, ours is the same weekend as Montreal. Maybe next year?

Good luck with your judging career!


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## NYEric (Mar 2, 2011)

Wow, I'm starting to accumulate some good books and i recommend Botanica's Orchids! My collection is going to double after seeing all these new orchids! :drool:


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## Clark (Mar 2, 2011)

I'll have heated bench space available in a couple of months.
:wink:


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## koshki (Mar 2, 2011)

I love my copy of _Masdevallias: Gems of the Orchid World._ I'd loan it to you, but it has been droooooooled all over (especially page 223!!)


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## nikv (Mar 2, 2011)

^ ^
What's on page 223, the centerfold? oke:


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## koshki (Mar 2, 2011)

To me it is! It's Anna Chai's Bella Donna 'Sung Sook' HCC CCM with 178 flowers, 27 buds on 205 inflorescences! I nearly pass out every time I look at it!


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## cnycharles (Mar 3, 2011)

unfortunately I pass out when I look at any plants of masdevallia I have, because the plants always look like they've passed out... (and into the great beyond)


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## NYEric (Mar 3, 2011)

I'm surprised about that thinking how close your cllimate is to the climate of some of the cooler growers . I would think that w/ enough light and moisture masdies and draculas would grow w/ no problems.


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## tenman (Mar 4, 2011)

NYEric said:


> I have to fill in the application to join the AOS student judging program and one of the questions is about my _"Library"_!
> Beside Rebecca Nothern's book and Pridgeon's Illustrated Encyclopedia I honestly dont have many orchid books. I know I need to become more familiar with Catt/Dendrobium/and Phal hybrids [and complex paphs], can anyone recommend good current books or should I just buy and study AQ+?



I think that requirement's something they need to take a look at - in these days, there's so much MORE info available on the web than in most libraries, it's both unrealistic and counterintuitive to concentrate on paper sources. For species, take Jay's IOSPE, for example. He lists citations with the entries. Just one example. And he constantly updates it. Most of the 'encyclopedic' books have numerous major errors and all are woefully incomplete. As well, a printed source can't EVER update itself with new discoveries, taxonomic reassignments, and general taxonomic changes. It is as it was the day it was published. Forever. Digital sources therefore have more flexibility, and, increasingly, more relevance.

The RHS site used to be reliable for researching hybrid genealogies, but in the cattleya groups at least, once they started making up dozens of new hybrid generic names and foolishly reassigning plants willy-nilly to them based on a never-accepted recent classification scheme in the cattleya group, without any cross-reference to old names, it has become worse than useless.

Another point I have found a stumbling block is that to actually access the original descriptions of species, really the only way to be authoritative with them, one must be RICH and CONNECTED. These things are scattered around the globe in odd places subject to admission requirements (only accredited and befriended [P.C.] taxonomists allowed!) and unlikely to soon be digitized; these are old mags and journals of often limited distribution and duration. It takes money to fly to Berlin, London, Rio, and all the other places these things are scattered about. And time - no ordinary day job would allow for such a venture. So, given that 99.999999% of us will never have access to these things, digital sources - the web, AQ-, and Wildcatt seem to be the best options.


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## NYEric (Mar 4, 2011)

Thanx Tenis. I already use Jay's site and will subscribe there. I plan to get more books and magazines so that by next month i have a reasonable amount of paper resources. I will have to get AQ+, and I'll look into Wildcatt also.


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## tim (Mar 4, 2011)

As for contacts with taxonomists, I'll throw an idea out there for those of you interested in primary literature: find a local herbarium and donate some time to volunteering for them. Many herbaria have significant volunteer staff for many different assignments, some of them technical, and some not so much. Working in a herbarium and interacting with people there can sometimes get you the contacts you need to get scans of some primary source material. Of course, this is only of interest if you are really serious about finding original descriptions; I understand volunteerism is sometimes difficult especially in terms of time committments...I just figured I'd bring it up as a possibility.


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## NYEric (Mar 4, 2011)

I'm volunteering as AOS Student Judge applicant! 
Thanx. I'll talk to our person at ht eBroolyn Botanical Garden about that.


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## Ernie (Mar 4, 2011)

A couple points:

Yes the information on the internet is numerous and can be frequently updated, but it is not reviewed. Judges do know the trustable sites for sure, so maybe list that you are aware of Jay's site, the monocot list, etc on your application. 

As quaint as a "library" sounds, it shows ones dedication to orchidology and gives the judging center a perspective of your involvement in the hobby. Someone with a large library of non-general books, no matter how old or dated, would have a higher percentage of having the long term interest and dedication to the sport. to protect its investment in time to train you, a JC wants to have a good idea you'll stick it out to the end AND maintain your status for 20+ years. It's foolish for a center to admit potential dropouts, so lots of the screen is geared that way.


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## NYEric (Mar 5, 2011)

Thanx.  - little bit skeered!


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## SlipperFan (Mar 5, 2011)

NYEric said:


> Thanx.  - little bit skeered!


You'll do fine!


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## NYEric (Mar 5, 2011)

Thanx,


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## tenman (Mar 6, 2011)

Ernie said:


> A couple points:
> 
> Yes the information on the internet is numerous and can be frequently updated, but it is not reviewed. Judges do know the trustable sites for sure, so maybe list that you are aware of Jay's site, the monocot list, etc on your application.
> 
> As quaint as a "library" sounds, it shows ones dedication to orchidology and gives the judging center a perspective of your involvement in the hobby. Someone with a large library of non-general books, no matter how old or dated, would have a higher percentage of having the long term interest and dedication to the sport. to protect its investment in time to train you, a JC wants to have a good idea you'll stick it out to the end AND maintain your status for 20+ years. It's foolish for a center to admit potential dropouts, so lots of the screen is geared that way.




Unfortunately, it seems a majority of the 'screening' at our local center seems geared more to personalities, likes, dislikes, and politics; very little emphasis seems to be given to anything as insignificant as qualifications, dedication, or staying power. Numerous students have dropped out because of this and others have been dropped simply based on personal dislikes.


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## NYEric (Mar 6, 2011)

I dont think our center would have that problem. Most of the Judges have known me for years from having worked at the GNYOS show for years. I might have to start looking a little more conservative though!


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## JeanLux (Mar 7, 2011)

I had been away for a week, and took the occasion to have a second reading of Eric Hansen's (Imo) great book Orchid Fever! I really like the way he is able to point out some of the problems conc. international trade in orchids, and give some orchid history!!! I would not like to miss it in my small orchid library !!!! Jean


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## NYEric (Mar 7, 2011)

I have that of course. It is great that I've met and deal with some of the people in the book on STF!


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## SlipperFan (Mar 7, 2011)

NYEric said:


> ... I might have to start looking a little more conservative though!


No way!!!


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