# Paph rothschildianum (TC-5 x TN-Tiger)



## emydura (Dec 22, 2020)

A first flowering seedling from the cross rothschildianum TC-5 x TN-Tiger. This is Taiwanese breeding from Shen-Lu Orchids (Iweyshan). This is the eight roth I have flowered now and the best. In fact, I believe this is the finest orchid I have ever flowered. The flowers are big (28.5 cm NS), have great colour and also have a wonderful stance. I had a roth get an AM award a couple of years back, but this one is a level above that in quality and size. So hopefully this will be awarded in the future. The other positive thing is this plant appears to be a great grower.

I have one other seedling of this cross although it is a few years from flowering. Fabrice posted two seedlings from this cross way back in 2014 (Rothschildianum crazy orchid. ). My plant had to go through quarantine which generally sets them back a few years, if it doesn't kill them.

Anyway, I am so excited about this plant. I can't wait to see it flower in a larger clump. Probably in another three years.


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## Linus_Cello (Dec 22, 2020)

Please keep us posted!


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## Paphman910 (Dec 22, 2020)

That is beautiful!


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## Duck Slipper (Dec 22, 2020)

Very nice!


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## Djthomp28 (Dec 22, 2020)

Wonderful! Are you one growth number 2 now?


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## emydura (Dec 22, 2020)

Djthomp28 said:


> Wonderful! Are you one growth number 2 now?



One flowering growth with a small new lead which you can see in the second photo.


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## troy (Dec 22, 2020)

nice roth!!!


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## Happypaphy7 (Dec 22, 2020)

Congrats!! That really is a very good roth! 
You expect this to bloom again in 3 years?


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 23, 2020)

Well proportioned and dark... a very good roth indeed!


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## eds (Dec 23, 2020)

Cracking bloom! Well done.


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## musa (Dec 23, 2020)

Wow! Looks great!


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## monocotman (Dec 23, 2020)

Superb!
David


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## emydura (Dec 23, 2020)

Happypaphy7 said:


> Congrats!! That really is a very good roth!
> You expect this to bloom again in 3 years?



Yes, my experience is that a first flowering seedling roth will take about three years to flower again. Especially given the size of the new lead. If the new lead was bigger than maybe two years.


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## Ozpaph (Dec 23, 2020)

That is mighty!


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## Dawn (Dec 23, 2020)

Lovely


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## fibre (Dec 23, 2020)

Absolutely impressive!


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## Guldal (Dec 23, 2020)

Absolutely scorching gorgeous, David! I like it on all accounts!  

And let me take the opportunity to wish you - and everybody here on STC: A Merry Christmas and A Happy and Floriferous New Year!

Kind regards, 
Jens


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## lanthier (Dec 23, 2020)

Absolutely fabulous!!!


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## tnyr5 (Dec 23, 2020)

That's a keeper, and not even close to showing off what it can really do yet. I think I see an FCC in your future!


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## Happypaphy7 (Dec 23, 2020)

emydura said:


> Yes, my experience is that a first flowering seedling roth will take about three years to flower again. Especially given the size of the new lead. If the new lead was bigger than maybe two years.


Thank you!


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## emydura (Dec 24, 2020)

Guldal said:


> Absolutely scorching gorgeous, David! I like it on all accounts!
> 
> And let me take the opportunity to wish you - and everybody here on STC: A Merry Christmas and A Happy and Floriferous New Year!
> 
> ...



Same to you Jen's. Lets hope 2021 is a better year. I was meant to go home for Christmas today but a breakout of covid in Sydney has meant we cannot travel there. So it won't be a family Christmas this year. Plenty in that boat I'm sure.


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## Justin (Dec 24, 2020)

That is killer! IME it is so hard to find this quality from seed as an amateur grower.

That is going to do really big things! I too see some awards in your future!


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## BrucherT (Dec 24, 2020)

Thrillingly magnificent. So beautifully grown, too. I wonder if any more of these are out there? Well done.


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## BrucherT (Dec 24, 2020)

You’re right...they’re hard to come by...Sam Tsui has a bunch of Japanese breeding seedlings, good prices.


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## emydura (Dec 24, 2020)

Justin said:


> That is killer! IME it is so hard to find this quality from seed as an amateur grower.
> 
> That is going to do really big things! I too see some awards in your future!



Thanks Justin. Yes, you need to flower a lot to get a good one. I have flowered eight, six of which were just average. One got an AM award and then this one. Interesting that my two good ones were not not from exceptional breeding with highly awarded parents. 

You do it the right way. Get flasks of the best breeding and flower them all out. Takes a lot of time and space though.


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## emydura (Dec 24, 2020)

BrucherT said:


> Thrillingly magnificent. So beautifully grown, too. I wonder if any more of these are out there? Well done.



Thanks. I have one more seedling of this cross, but it has been very slow and won't flower for a while. I was speaking to the guy who imported these roths from the Taiwanese nursery and he said this particular crossed was giving much rounder dorsals than the other roth crosses he imported in. 

Fabrice bought a whole flask of this cross and posted a couple of photos six years ago. Unfortunately Fabrice doesn't seem to post here anymore. 



BrucherT said:


> You’re right...they’re hard to come by...Sam Tsui has a bunch of Japanese breeding seedlings, good prices.



I have about 20 seedlings of those various TON crosses. Some of those should potentially be great. I would stick to the ones involving Giant Wings or Raptor.


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## Ozpaph (Dec 25, 2020)

Im looking forward to the "King Kong" progeny and Paph Paradise roths.


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## emydura (Dec 26, 2020)

Ozpaph said:


> Im looking forward to the "King Kong" progeny and Paph Paradise roths.



Which ones are the Paph Paradise roths?

The 'King Kong' x 'Humongous' roths are great growers. I dare say I might flower those before the 'Giant Wings' x 'Canadian Club' seedlings.


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## Ozpaph (Dec 26, 2020)

tempranillo, graciano and soon to be, tarantula. https://paphparadise.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Winter-2021-flask-list-1.pdf


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## emydura (Dec 26, 2020)

Ozpaph said:


> tempranillo, graciano and soon to be, tarantula. https://paphparadise.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Winter-2021-flask-list-1.pdf



They look amazing crosses. The Graciano clone is wonderful and the Tempranillo clone with 7 flowers on a first flowering seedling is incredible. 

If you are into dark roths, than I am not sure you could do better than that 'Paradise City' x 'Dark Angel' cross. 

A bit out of my price range though. Can anyone comment on the quality of the flasks? Size, number of seedlings?


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## Ozpaph (Dec 26, 2020)

Just like Sam's flasks.


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## emydura (Dec 26, 2020)

Ozpaph said:


> Just like Sam's flasks.



But more expensive.

So you have some of these flasks Stephen?


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## Ozpaph (Dec 26, 2020)

From the previous listings.


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## emydura (Dec 26, 2020)

Ozpaph said:


> From the previous listings.
> g[/img][/url]



They are looking great Stephen. They should be so exciting.

Did you order the flask from within Australia or did you purchase the flask when you were in the US?


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## Ozpaph (Dec 27, 2020)

Brought them back from Tokyo Dome in Feb.


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## Duck Slipper (Dec 27, 2020)

I have a Roth infatuation. I have bought a few over the last 4 years, and enjoy reading the musings, and stories here on ST!


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## Justin (Dec 28, 2020)

Duck Slipper said:


> I have a Roth infatuation. I have bought a few over the last 4 years, and enjoy reading the musings, and stories here on ST!



It is a really fun obsession but.requires patience and dedication. Once you get enough mature plants in your pipeline it is great to see flowers every April.


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 29, 2020)

It's sad that Aussies can't import plants into the continent except through flasks. This seriously delays the blooming times by 10 years to the rest of the world. I hope this can change in the future. 

In the meantime, kudos to all you koalas for doing such a great job growing and expanding your collections.


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## Justin (Dec 30, 2020)

DrLeslieEe said:


> It's sad that Aussies can't import plants into the continent except through flasks. This seriously delays the blooming times by 10 years to the rest of the world. I hope this can change in the future.
> 
> In the meantime, kudos to all you koalas for doing such a great job growing and expanding your collections.



Totally agree. And even with great quality parents it is still a numbers game to get exceptional clones from seed, at least for me as an amateur indoor grower. I have bloomed a couple dozen + roth seedlings and not a single one would get noticed. Also once you see a bunch bloom from the same cross you realize they are all going to be pretty much the same. I still hold out hope that one lucky FCC plant is sitting in those seedling trays.


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## emydura (Dec 30, 2020)

DrLeslieEe said:


> It's sad that Aussies can't import plants into the continent except through flasks. This seriously delays the blooming times by 10 years to the rest of the world. I hope this can change in the future.
> In the meantime, kudos to all you koalas for doing such a great job growing and expanding your collections.



It is frustrating. It also means that there is very little available to purchase. There aren't many nurseries here. I certainly can't go and purchase a FS roth or sanderianum if I wanted to. There are just no plants around. As a result what plants do turn up from time to time can sell for incredible prices. 

It is possible to import large plants in from overseas. In fact, this roth was imported from Taiwan as a near flowering seedling. The problem is the plants have to sit in quarantine for three months where they are invariably fumigated with methyl bromide (even though they are exempt from because of their sensitivity). This spray does so much damage. A lot of plants won't survive and even if they do, they just sit their for years sulking. This particular roth I got in 2013 and it did nothing for many years, but all of a sudden took off. Most of the other roths I got at the same time either died or are still struggling. My experience is that it is not just worth importing in from overseas. It is expensive (the quarantine costs are exorbitant) and most plants will never survive to flowering. In the end it is cheaper and quicker to grow from flask or buy small seedlings that have been deflasked.

A few years ago, Sam Tsui shipped a whole lot of large Paphs into Australia. We were told they would not be spraying with methyl bromide. Alas one or two insects were found and they fumigated the whole collection at way over the recommended dosage. It was a complete disaster. Just about every plant was killed. I had ordered 10 plants (at a cost of about $1100) and I ended up with just one. It is just starting to come good. There were people who ordered a lot more than me. I would estimate that maybe $80,000 worth of plants were lost. Sam was incredibly generous and offered discounts for future flask orders for those affected. He didn't need to do that. Until they stop spraying with methyl bromide, I'm done with imported plants.


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## Justin (Dec 30, 2020)

That is tough...I can only imagine the stress.


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 30, 2020)

emydura said:


> It is frustrating. It also means that there is very little available to purchase. There aren't many nurseries here. I certainly can't go and purchase a FS roth or sanderianum if I wanted to. There are just no plants around. As a result what plants do turn up from time to time can sell for incredible prices.
> 
> It is possible to import large plants in from overseas. In fact, this roth was imported from Taiwan as a near flowering seedling. The problem is the plants have to sit in quarantine for three months where they are invariably fumigated with methyl bromide (even though they are exempt from because of their sensitivity). This spray does so much damage. A lot of plants won't survive and even if they do, they just sit their for years sulking. This particular roth I got in 2013 and it did nothing for many years, but all of a sudden took off. Most of the other roths I got at the same time either died or are still struggling. My experience is that it is not just worth importing in from overseas. It is expensive (the quarantine costs are exorbitant) and most plants will never survive to flowering. In the end it is cheaper and quicker to grow from flask or buy small seedlings that have been deflasked.
> 
> A few years ago, Sam Tsui shipped a whole lot of large Paphs into Australia. We were told they would not be spraying with methyl bromide. Alas one or two insects were found and they fumigated the whole collection at way over the recommended dosage. It was a complete disaster. Just about every plant was killed. I had ordered 10 plants (at a cost of about $1100) and I ended up with just one. It is just starting to come good. There were people who ordered a lot more than me. I would estimate that maybe $80,000 worth of plants were lost. Sam was incredibly generous and offered discounts for future flask orders for those affected. He didn't need to do that. Until they stop spraying with methyl bromide, I'm done with imported plants.


I'm so disturbed by that story of that genocidal destruction of good plants. Such a tragedy.


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## emydura (Dec 30, 2020)

DrLeslieEe said:


> I'm so disturbed by that story of that genocidal destruction of good plants. Such a tragedy.



A tragedy indeed. Many years of growing gone to waste. This is what I ordered. They were all large NFS or FS plants. All that survived was one roth from the last item. It ended up being a seedling of Paph. rothschildianum x sib (Miles x Perfection FCC/AOS, G/JOGA). It was in terrible condition when I got it and went backwards for a while, but it is starting to grow nicely. Still many years from flowering though. Below is just a tiny fraction of the plants that were killed. Some were divisions of his select plants.

* Paph. Wossner Black Wings (rothschildianum 'Red Sea' x adductum var. anitum 'Ace' AM/AOS) 
* Paph. Ching Hua Dancer 'Muscle Man' x sanderianum 'Sam Tsui' NBS $65.0 AM/AQ/AOS
* Paph Stonei NFS
* Paph. Michael Koopowtiz (philippinense 'Super Long Twister' x sanderianum '90+') 
* Paph. philippinense x sib ('Super Wings' x 'New Twist') 
* Paph. Prince Edward of York (sanderianum 'Lady in Red' x rothschildianum 'Leo' SM/JOGA) 
* Paph. rothschildianum - Collector Package #2 PACKAGE $300.00 Four NBS rothschildianum x sib seedlings - all Japanese strain breeding (Both parents) of our choice Plants expect to bloom in 1-2 years.


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## Ozpaph (Dec 30, 2020)

I ordered a very large number of plants. All dead. An extremely expensive exercise due to incompetence (NOT Sams)


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 31, 2020)

My heart goes out to you guys for the loss. I empathize that feeling when I lose plants to cold and human foibles. We all cry inside, a mourning no one outside the orchid collector/grower world could ever understand. We bear that pain alone.


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## Ozpaph (Dec 31, 2020)

DrLeslieEe said:


> We bear that pain alone.


......because I dare not tell my wife how much it cost!!


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## emydura (Dec 31, 2020)

Ozpaph said:


> ......because I dare not tell my wife how much it cost!!



LOL. Mine is blissfully unaware about the whole debacle.


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## emydura (Dec 31, 2020)

emydura said:


> LOL. Mine is blissfully unaware about the whole debacle.


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## Duck Slipper (Dec 31, 2020)

emydura said:


> A tragedy indeed. Many years of growing gone to waste. This is what I ordered. They were all large NFS or FS plants. All that survived was one roth from the last item. It ended up being a seedling of Paph. rothschildianum x sib (Miles x Perfection FCC/AOS, G/JOGA). It was in terrible condition when I got it and went backwards for a while, but it is starting to grow nicely. Still many years from flowering though. Below is just a tiny fraction of the plants that were killed. Some were divisions of his select plants.
> 
> * Paph. Wossner Black Wings (rothschildianum 'Red Sea' x adductum var. anitum 'Ace' AM/AOS)
> * Paph. Ching Hua Dancer 'Muscle Man' x sanderianum 'Sam Tsui' NBS $65.0 AM/AQ/AOS
> ...


Awful. I can’t imagine. 
Excellent Roth now!


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## Guldal (Jan 1, 2021)

Your tales are thoroughly horrible! My most heartfelt commiserations! Why on earth they don't ask for advice, when handling such valuable plants, I can't phatom? I guess, they wouldn't tear out or cut free the canvas of a valuable Carravagio painting to be able to inspect the frame more closely... or would they? The barbaric treatment of your plants is in my eyes even worse - as my mentor in all things orchidiadic, Hans Christiansen once said with vehemence, when the postal services had treated some plants abhorable, "but they are _living beings_"!


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## musa (Jan 13, 2021)

Even to think about it gives me a shiver!


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