# New Phrags!



## Jenn4a (Jan 15, 2015)

I had a mishaps with my original Fritz... Poor thing.. but it might make it! I was told to bring it in so they can look at it. Of course I can't leave without getting some orchids..  I decided to get a bigger Fritz just in case... and I also picked out a Phrag. Mem. Dick Clements AM/AOS that has a start of a new growth peaking out. Both of the new orchids appear to have plenty of roots; you can see some from the top. I feel much better about new orchids when I unpot them to see if the medium is old or if there's pest. Would anyone recommend against, or for unpotting? I like to use clear pots, but right now I only have coarse bark, fine perlite, charcoal, LECA, cracked oyster shells and sphag moss. Right now both are in my "new orchid" tank with a 65W _(200w-300w equivalent)_ cfl bulb. Once they're either repotted, or I'm sure there isn't any pests in the medium, they'll likely go in my orchid setup with a 2' 24W T5. It's by a Northern window so some natural sunlight comes in. 

I have to repot the Phrag. Caudatum 'Jon Sauer'.. I only had 4" pots at the time, but now I have 3" pots. The Fritz I took to the nursery was repotted into a 3" pot while I was there... but my Caudatum is smaller.. 

(I do have rockwool... but I don't think I want to use any. While it was soaking, there was an awful sulfur smell coming from it.)

Ignore the white metal thing, it's not part of the tank but I have the clamp lamp attached to it. This tank was cleaned with physan a week ago, but you know how long "clean" aquariums last, lol.

Side view 


 

Top view




*Phrag. Mem. Dick Clements 'Sandy's Gem' AM/AOS*




*Phrag. Fritz Schomburg * _Yes, it says phal, but it's just a typo_


----------



## SlipperFan (Jan 15, 2015)

Nice looking plants. I usually say Phal when I mean Paph, so not to worry about the tag.


----------



## NYEric (Jan 15, 2015)

Your mix should reflect your watering culture. If you water often or heavily and you don't want to drown the roots by keeping them too wet (without air). Luckily these hybrids can take a lot of water.


----------



## Jenn4a (Jan 15, 2015)

Hmmm, I'm not sure exactly; I'm still new to orchids.
I try watering each plant by weight of the pot when they aren't clear pots. I use RO water, but only 1 cup or so comes out at a time. I usually use 16 oz mustard bottles, or if a plant looks like it needs some water, but not much, I just lightly spray the top. I have some plants growing in different mixes of bark, sphag, perlite, charcoal and LECA. The Fritz that I originally had was repotted in just sphag today, so I don't know about that.. 
The Caudatum 'Jon Sauer' and the (Red lightning x Caudatum) are in a layered perlite, sphag, charcoal and LECA mix. I only repotted them 3 days ago so I can't really comment on them.  

I guess my best judgement would be to leave them in the bark and wait to see how the 2 newly repotted orchids do in the mix I used. If I suspect decomposing media, I will repot ASAP though. *I haven't had a very good experience with bark mixes, but I mainly think it's because most of my orchids came to me in decomposed bark. I much rather use media that doesn't break down, but I suppose I should give fresh bark a fair chance. 

I've heard that some phrag growers keep a little bit of water underneath the pots, but possibly not for Caudatums? 
I do like the thought of being able to use LECA and keep a little water at the bottom. I've realized that it's not really a water problem, but a suffocation of the roots with tightly packed media... But since I'm new, I don't want to try straight LECA yet on new orchids. I have cattleyas in straight LECA and I've noticed that the top dries out too quickly in my conditions. 

Sorry, I overcomplicate things! :0


----------



## monocotman (Jan 16, 2015)

The Fritz S. and MDC will love to stand in 1cm of water, especially if your pots dry out quickly. Mine do so year round and are growing in a cool room over winter. They really love to be damp at all times.
Another very important thing with phrags is water quality. Rain water or RO water with a low level of feed is much better tha tap water for them.
I have hear that caudatums like it drier -more like paphs.
david


----------



## The Mutant (Jan 16, 2015)

They're looking very nice both of them. :clap:


----------



## Jenn4a (Jan 16, 2015)

Thanks! I'll probably ask Hilltop how they're Caudatums are grown. When I got the first Fritz in a 2.5" pot, He said to water it 2X weekly. It was growing pretty fast! I do use RO water, but I'm noticing that the phrags have dark root tips. They do seem to be a little dry to slightly damp at the time of purchase, so I wonder if that's why the root tips are dark. 

I don't have a water quality meter, but I do have a pH meter, and 2 other methods to check pH. My RO water reads from 6.90- 7.14. The tap water reads 7.5- 7.9 I think. I know it's about time to change out the RO system but they water doesn't turn off; the valve turns and turns but it doesn't shut off... It'll have to turn off at the main.


----------



## The Mutant (Jan 16, 2015)

Jenn4a said:


> Thanks! I'll probably ask Hilltop how they're Caudatums are grown. When I got the first Fritz in a 2.5" pot, He said to water it 2X weekly. It was growing pretty fast! I do use RO water, but I'm noticing that the phrags have dark root tips. They do seem to be a little dry to slightly damp at the time of purchase, so I wonder if that's why the root tips are dark.
> 
> I don't have a water quality meter, but I do have a pH meter, and 2 other methods to check pH. My RO water reads from 6.90- 7.14. The tap water reads 7.5- 7.9 I think. I know it's about time to change out the RO system but they water doesn't turn off; the valve turns and turns but it doesn't shut off... It'll have to turn off at the main.


Just remember that they have a greenhouse (or I assume they do at least), so it's not certain their culture will fit your conditions.

I know for example that while I can have all of my Phrags standing constantly with their feet wet, another member of ST could probably get problem with rot if they did so. I don't have anything with caudatum in them however, so that one I won't say anything about.

When I got my first Phrag, my Green Hornet, I dried its oldest growth to death, despite watering it every day. I has to stand in water, otherwise it doesn't stay moist enough.

I have two baby Phrags now and a young BS Jason Fischer that I also have standing in water and when I get up, their saucers are usually empty. They are _thirsty_ little buggers.


----------



## Jenn4a (Jan 16, 2015)

I'm excited! Last night after I cleaned the leaves off the new phrags I sprayed a little seaweed extract on the surface. Today when I picked them up so I could water them, I saw that the MDC has roots coming out of the pot?! They weren't like that last night 

I noticed that they seemed a little dry so I sprayed the pots down with the seaweed extract and left just a little amount in the containers that the pots are sitting in. I'm not too worried about rotting the roots with spraying the medium since the bark looks fairly airy. I much rather spray them more frequently than soak them weekly. (Soaking in the sense of submerging the whole pot in water) I feel like the bark gets too soggy when submerged. I'm new though so It could just be my experience with decomposed bark. 

The method of spraying works well with my cattleya (altered to it's preference.) I spray it every couple of days, or sometimes up to a week, until the water starts running out the bottom. I base how much to spray by how thirsty it seems. For instance: spraying until it's drenched when it's really thirsty, or lightly spraying the top when the top is dry. It really seems to like it and has been growing. 

I know that different methods will depend on different conditions, but I hope I'm not doing something awful.


----------



## The Mutant (Jan 16, 2015)

Jenn4a said:


> I'm excited! Last night after I cleaned the leaves off the new phrags I sprayed a little seaweed extract on the surface. Today when I picked them up so I could water them, I saw that the MDC has roots coming out of the pot?! They weren't like that last night
> 
> I noticed that they seemed a little dry so I sprayed the pots down with the seaweed extract and left just a little amount in the containers that the pots are sitting in. I'm not too worried about rotting the roots with spraying the medium since the bark looks fairly airy. I much rather spray them more frequently than soak them weekly. (Soaking in the sense of submerging the whole pot in water) I feel like the bark gets too soggy when submerged. I'm new though so It could just be my experience with decomposed bark.
> 
> ...


I've never grown Cattleyas and have absolutely no idea how to care for one, all I do know is that most Phrags love water and I don't think just spraying them will be enough (again, reserving myself when it comes to the caudatum).

I might be seriously wrong so wait until someone with more experience chimes in though. 

Do you know the humidity levels in your tank?


----------



## 17andgrowing (Jan 16, 2015)

Congrats!


----------



## Jenn4a (Jan 16, 2015)

In the area with the cattleyas, it stays around 60-77% zipped up (there's a small fan in there.) In the new orchid isolation tank, it's probably much lower. 20-40%, but I don't have a fan or a way to keep the humidity inside the tank. 

Hmm, I'm not sure. Usually I use a mustard bottle or spray bottle. When I need to drench the pot I've been using the jet spray, or mustard bottle. When the top is dry, I lightly mist the top. Everything seems much or evenly watered this way. I guess it's much harder to describe by words rather than watching.  
With the Catts, I let them dry out, just for clarification  and the orchids that don't like to be dry, I water when they look almost dry. Kind of hard to explain? I let the phal and paphs dry out more than the phrags. 
My brains pretty scrambled right now. Sorry about that.... I need some brain food. 

I use the RO water because we have a water softener. It's bad to use softened water with sodium right?


----------



## mrhappyrotter (Jan 16, 2015)

Howdy stranger. Those are nice looking new plants. I hope the curse of Fritz Schomburg doesn't strike you again!

Frankly, with phrags, unless they aren't in good shape to begin with, they've always seemed perfectly fine with being repotted after purchase. They seem to like fresh media, even if you grow in something that's mostly inorganic, and while the roots are sensitive to poor water quality, they are resistant to mechanical damage compared to a lot of other orchids.

With paphs and phrags, generally speaking, I repot them soon after I get them so that they are in the same mix as everything else, but also so that I can see whether or not the roots are healthy. However, if I buy a slipper in spike or in bloom, I don't repot until it's done flowering.


----------



## Jenn4a (Jan 17, 2015)

MrHappyRotter! I've been waiting for you to come by, (either on OB or here.) I did update my last thread on my phrag Fritz the 1st. I decided to call them Fritz the 1st and Fritz the 2nd.  I did notice that the Besseae is different between the two of them; Fritz the 1st is Besseae var Flavum. 

I will add photos of the Fritz together so you can see the difference! The 1st has a leaf of only 3-5", while the 2nd has a leaf around 11-12" long. The Fritz was repotted in sphag that looks kind of tightly packed, but I'm not sure I want to mess with him too much.  His leaf has shown where there was mechanical damage, but none of the nubs at the base have darkened. I really hope he pulls through! 

I'll probably repot the new ones sometime this week. I'm still debating on what to use. How is vermiculite? The perlite I have is pretty fine grade, and it doesn't look like coarse grade perlite is easy to obtain. I want to have something inorganic to use with the LECA because the LECA dries out too fast, and I fear it could have a pH issue. My rockwool smells like sulfur so I'm not sure if I can use that either. So far I have coarse bark, LECA, charcoal, sphag and some oyster shells for certain orchids. 

I may just have to order some medium bark for the bigger phrags, and maybe some fine bark for the smaller ones. What type of bark is best suited? I've heard of fir bark, coconut husks, coconut coir, and some others. 
I've also heard that the orchiata brand is good. 

I might just have to start a different thread for potting medium questions?


----------



## RNCollins (Jan 17, 2015)

What I do for my Phrags. (I think this was a tip from NYEric) that sit in water is put LECA in the bottom of the container... Then put your bark mix or whatever you prefer on top of it so the bark sits above the water. That way the bark decomposes more slowly.

Kelleys Korner has coarse Perlite:
http://www.kkorchid.com/media-for-potting-orchids/Sponge-Rok.html


----------



## The Mutant (Jan 17, 2015)

Jenn4a said:


> In the area with the cattleyas, it stays around 60-77% zipped up (there's a small fan in there.) In the new orchid isolation tank, it's probably much lower. 20-40%, but I don't have a fan or a way to keep the humidity inside the tank.
> 
> Hmm, I'm not sure. Usually I use a mustard bottle or spray bottle. When I need to drench the pot I've been using the jet spray, or mustard bottle. When the top is dry, I lightly mist the top. Everything seems much or evenly watered this way. I guess it's much harder to describe by words rather than watching.
> With the Catts, I let them dry out, just for clarification  and the orchids that don't like to be dry, I water when they look almost dry. Kind of hard to explain? I let the phal and paphs dry out more than the phrags.
> ...


You know what, keep doing what you're doing. It's what you're comfortable with and the only reason I reacted is because it would not work in my conditions.  Your general humidity in the Cattleya tank is higher than in my apartment for example (it's around 60% here right now, but that's because it's temporary spring outside).

When it comes to substrate, I keep mine potted in fine graded fir bark (it's actually for reptiles but so far the Phrags I have it in love it), perlite (also the smaller version, I try to filter out the smallest ones since I can't get my hand on anything larger) and sphagnum.

I'm going to be experimenting with some new substrate however. I'll replace the sphagnum with Synthic and see how that works, and then I'm considering using CHC and some..eh...stones/pebbles of some kind. I don't remember right now what it was called. Oh, and I'll also try growing one of the baby Green Hornets in a tray. It's going to be fun.


----------



## mrhappyrotter (Jan 17, 2015)

Jenn4a said:


> MrHappyRotter! I've been waiting for you to come by, (either on OB or here.) I did update my last thread on my phrag Fritz the 1st. I decided to call them Fritz the 1st and Fritz the 2nd.  I did notice that the Besseae is different between the two of them; Fritz the 1st is Besseae var Flavum.
> 
> I will add photos of the Fritz together so you can see the difference! The 1st has a leaf of only 3-5", while the 2nd has a leaf around 11-12" long. The Fritz was repotted in sphag that looks kind of tightly packed, but I'm not sure I want to mess with him too much.  His leaf has shown where there was mechanical damage, but none of the nubs at the base have darkened. I really hope he pulls through!
> 
> ...



You could start a new thread or do a search for other threads regarding potting mixes. The only thing is, there are at least as many opinions on potting mixes as there are members here, so it could get confusing.

My personal take on it is that phrags are incredibly adaptable to most any mix (using standard ingredients), so long as the individual constituents (and your care) keep the roots both moist and aerated. From there, it's really just a matter of what's convenient for you to acquire and what fits in your budget. Once you have a good base mixture, be it bark, leca, cocochips, rockwool or otherwise, then you can mix in the minor additives like oyster shell, course sand and things of that nature.

I've never encountered rock wool with a noticeable smell, though I avoid breathing in the air from the bag so as to avoid getting rockwool dust in my lungs. Either way, I always soak, flush, and rinse it a few times to clean out some of the dust and particles. I have some plastic containers that I keep the rockwool in, where it soaks in water with a small amount of fertilizer until ready for use. Most online sources recommend rinsing then soaking it over night in this manner to rid it of anything that might affect the pH, since different manufacturing processes can leave rockwool on the acidic side, while others will give it a basic pH. Rockwool itself, from what I gather is more or less inert with neutral pH, but fresh out of the bag, processing contaminants will affect pH.

For me, I like rockwool because it's very light-weight. It holds lots of water, but also maintains a lot of its air capacity when wet. There's a local-ish shop that carried it, but I've also purchased it online and had it shipped. Because it's so light, the shipping isn't anything too horrendous (IMHO). Of course, after trying out rockwool based mixes, I've come to love the stuff (as have the majority of my plants), so I'll likely continue using it unless it becomes hard to find or expensive or they find it causes your brain to liquefy.


----------



## Jenn4a (Jan 17, 2015)

I did repot my Caudatum and the Red Lightning, I posted questions in a new thread about them though so I'll try not to sounds repetitive 
I noticed that When I unpotted both that they were still wet. The mix with the amount of sphag used didn't seem to suit them. (A Besseae or Bess. hybrid might have enjoyed it though.) My Main concern for my cauds. is that the roots are small and each has about 4-10 roots at most. I feel safer keeping them in something that dries faster at the moment.
Anything that I didn't mention about these two phrags are in my new thread 

Thanks for the tip about leca at the bottom so the bark or etc. doesn't decompose as fast; I've been doing that  I kind of question the quality of my LECA so I do feel safe using it mixed with other substances, but not so sure how it'll do on it's own. If I feel inclined to, I may purchase PrimeAgra.. maybe along with some pea gravel and stalite. So many choices! In fact, I was reading about Orchiata's inorganic orchid mix. I may try that too.

About the rockwool, I had it in a ziplock bag. Instructions say to add lemon juice and let it sit for 8 hours. Well.. I did let it soak.. for more than recommended. It smelled rotten.. similar to sulfur. I did some reading but I forget what the smell could have been "hydrogen sulfide gas" or something. It also said that it can be lethal when you breath it in.. At that point I was about to repot, but decided against using it. It did have a pH of 2.3; whatever the cause, I'm not sure. It could be the brand I used, or it could be from my improper preparement. 

here's a picture of my tank for New orchids; I added foil around the outside of the tank. Fritz the 1st, Mem. Dick Clements, And Frits the 2nd. _The discolored water is due to seaweed extract_


----------



## troy (Jan 24, 2015)

Stagnant air incubates pathogens, keep them ultra clean in small confined areas


----------



## Jenn4a (Jan 24, 2015)

Thanks. I do have an available fan I can put in there now. These 'chids have been moved into the setup. I use this tank for new orchids and usually move them out after I repot them.  Before I started using the tank, I sprayed it with physan. 
Any area that looks really dirty is from prior use. I believe this tank was used for snakes yeeeears ago, and the heating pad melted onto the glass; maybe it was tape? Those areas are nearly impossible to remove.


----------



## NYEric (Jan 25, 2015)

Thread has a life of its own. Your set up looks fine.


----------



## Jenn4a (Jan 26, 2015)

Thanks.  
I will have a new shelf set up by a southern window soon! I'll have to clear space for it. Unfortunately the window won't supply enough light for both units. 
I'll set up the adjustable shelving units, and then I'm going to customize it. 
I have 2 sets, and they're 72"H 36W 18D. I can have 200 pounds of orchids on each shelf  It comes with 5 adjustable shelves each  ... Gotta love Menard's sales.


----------



## Jenn4a (Mar 26, 2015)

*I have a question about new growths.. If there is one starting to grow and the leaf is still attached, do you just let the plant shed the leaf? *
My MDC surprised me with a growth "trapped" inside a leaf. I only noticed it now, as the leaf seems fully attached, and the growth can only be seen from the top. I can barely see it, but I doubt it's a root? I'll attach a photo, but it's not a good one. 

My paph sukhakulii is also growing a new fan in between a leaf, but it's much closer to the edge. I haven't bothered taking the leaf off because it isn't firmly attached and I figured the leaf will completely shed off when it's ready to.

MDC


----------



## Justin (Mar 26, 2015)

yes it is normal. you don't have to remove the leaf. new growths are always a good sign!


----------



## NYEric (Mar 26, 2015)

Let them grow.


----------



## Jenn4a (Mar 26, 2015)

Thanks, Justin and NYEric!  
My MDC has 3 growths then.. The small growth that it came with hasn't grown much, but it has gotten a little bigger.


----------

