# Phragmipedium kovachii



## ORG (Nov 22, 2009)

Today I had the possibility to make some pictures of Phragmipedium kovachii.
The plant came with official papers to North-Germany.



























Really a very dark colour and a big flower.

With best greetings

Olaf


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## goldenrose (Nov 22, 2009)

:clap::clap:Quite impressive! Love the rich color! :drool::drool:


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## SlipperKing (Nov 22, 2009)

I agree with Rose...Very rich colors!


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## SlipperFan (Nov 22, 2009)

Great color! It looks like a rather short spike.


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## Heather (Nov 22, 2009)

That last photo is wonderful! Just gorgeous, Olaf!


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## Roth (Nov 22, 2009)

Very nice one. That's a plant from Arias if I do not mistake - and I know I don't-, and just prove that I was right about him. First the flasks, then he could get the export papers, and sell his stock of precultivated plants for cheap price. Maximum profit.


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## Phrag-Plus (Nov 22, 2009)

Just gorgeous!


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## parvi_17 (Nov 22, 2009)

As far as I'm concerned, this is the most beautiful plant species in the world, and I love seeing photos of it. Thanks for sharing!


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## Candace (Nov 22, 2009)

It's hard to believe with this type of coloration, that this species was kept hidden for so long.


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## JeanLux (Nov 23, 2009)

this is a dream, looking at my small sad seedlings!!!! Jean


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## Kavanaru (Nov 23, 2009)

very nice deep color!


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## smartie2000 (Nov 23, 2009)

Nice, I just realized how unique the staminode is!


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## TyroneGenade (Nov 23, 2009)

Hello Olaf,

Great plant and flower. What are you growing your plant in? I have a tiny seedling and am desperate to give it the best chance of becoming as lovely as your plant.

thanks


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## Roth (Nov 23, 2009)

TyroneGenade said:


> Hello Olaf,
> 
> Great plant and flower. What are you growing your plant in? I have a tiny seedling and am desperate to give it the best chance of becoming as lovely as your plant.
> 
> thanks



That plant is not from flask...


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## JeanLux (Nov 23, 2009)

Sanderianum said:


> Very nice one. That's a plant from Arias if I do not mistake - and I know I don't-, and just prove that I was right about him. First the flasks, then he could get the export papers, and sell his stock of *precultivated plants for cheap price*. Maximum profit.



what do you call cheap in this context? What is this blooming plant worth? Does precultivated mean collected and precultivated? Jean


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## Roth (Nov 23, 2009)

JeanLux said:


> what do you call cheap in this context? What is this blooming plant worth?



Arias is selling 50-100 us/plant wholesale depending on the quantity.



> Does precultivated mean collected and precultivated? Jean



Definitely yes. I know it... I don't care to say it publicly, because the importer cannot have any problem with those plants, there is no expert skilled enough to make an official report about that. But they are not at all artificially propagated. That was my point about Arias some months and years ago. He collected many plants, cultivated them to sell them when the time would have been ready - that's now - and made a small fortune with the flasks. Now he is doing another fair amount of money with the collected and cultivated plants. Double profit. And frankly, at 1040US/flask in the early days, if you think carefully, 50US for a blooming size plant wholesale, bigger than any plant from flask, from the same supplier who sold the flasks... How people feel about that? A bit cheated...

Basically the honest people who bought the flasks to raise kovachii to blooming size from seed are screwed up like hell, it was better to wait for Arias to release the wild plants - even if that one does not seem to have spent too long in a nursery actually -. 50Us/blooming size multigrowth. From flask, about 50-100USD/ blooming size plant, if the grower was good to start with and bought the commercial flask... Many seedlings are slow growing and will not reach blooming size, or in a loooong time.


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## toddybear (Nov 23, 2009)

My seedling croaked...WWWWHHHHAAAAAA


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## Paul (Nov 23, 2009)

WOW !! 

I can't wait to see mines blooming ... from Arias flasks lol


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## NYEric (Nov 23, 2009)

Is this your plant Olaf? If I could get blooming size Pk I certainly would!


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## McPaph (Nov 23, 2009)

Very cool


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## TyroneGenade (Nov 25, 2009)

Sanderianum said:


> That plant is not from flask...



Very well, but I am still interested in knowing what it is being grown in as it looks very happy.


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## Roth (Nov 25, 2009)

TyroneGenade said:


> Very well, but I am still interested in knowing what it is being grown in as it looks very happy.



On limestone hills in the forest some weeks ago for that one...  When they are carefully collected, they look like that.

If you look at the pot side too, the plant did not root in its media, because it is very freshly repotted - september, correct ???

Other than that, kovachii grows very well in many media, the key problem is to keep the pH a bit up, if you grow it in a mix with some degraded limestone - loess type - the plants are thriving fast and well.


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## TyroneGenade (Nov 25, 2009)

Thanks for the info! I will sprinkle some CaCO3 and MgCO3 onto the mix and hope for the best! Thanks


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## gonewild (Nov 25, 2009)

TyroneGenade said:


> Thanks for the info! I will sprinkle some CaCO3 and MgCO3 onto the mix and hope for the best! Thanks


Best to actually put limestone chips in the mix not just on top.


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## KyushuCalanthe (Nov 25, 2009)

A truly unique flower without a doubt - and those colors...


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## slippertalker (Nov 25, 2009)

It would be interesting to see how the color and shape changes as it ages..


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## Ray (Nov 26, 2009)

I know this harks back to the plant nutrition thread, but is it specifically the pH that is critical, or is it the presence of abundant Ca (and Mg, probably)?


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## gonewild (Nov 26, 2009)

I think the presence of Ca and/or other minerals in limestone rather than pH.
The native soil for kovachii is fractured limestone chunks and clay... not moss.


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## Bobc (Nov 26, 2009)

very impressive.


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## cnycharles (Nov 28, 2009)

very velvety, intense color


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## Ron-NY (Nov 28, 2009)

I did not realize that INRENA changed their position on non flask grown kovachii leaving Peru. 

Very nice!


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## gonewild (Nov 28, 2009)

Ron-NY said:


> I did not realize that INRENA changed their position on non flask grown kovachii leaving Peru.



Neither did INRENA.


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## Kyle (Nov 29, 2009)

When I was at Perufloras greenhouses in 2005 they had compots of hybrids and pure species. I've posted photos in the past.

I've seen paperwork from peru for plants.

I agree these plants being offered are huge, but just stating what I've seen with my own eyes,

Kyle


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## Roth (Nov 29, 2009)

Kyle said:


> When I was at Perufloras greenhouses in 2005 they had compots of hybrids and pure species. I've posted photos in the past.
> 
> I've seen paperwork from peru for plants.
> 
> ...



That's always the problem between seeing and the truth in the orchid world...

Officially Paphiopedilum sanderianum, Paphiopedilum rothschildianum, Phragmipedium kovachii and more are 'extinct'. In fact, they are still very common and plentiful in the wild - as of today, but for sure not tomorrow. 

They are very cheap to buy from the local people too.

After the flask amazing profit, and a little profit selling young cultivated kovachii, now comes the time of the plant profit. Triple gain for the same individuals, and it is not a slim one.

If you want to know maybe more about kovachii, you could ask Mr. Isaias Rolando about what was exactly going on or maybe not 

It is the first time since the Victorian era that so much profit has been generated by an individual with a single species. Kovachii is definitely not rarer than besseae or pearcei even. It's not because the flower is huge and impressive that it must be rare in the wild. The rarity and all the story about it has been carefully arranged and scheduled, congrats.

Now come the time of the kovachii bought 2-3USD from the local people and sold 50-100. Not bad. I just imagine the poor honest people who bought those 1040USD flasks, and have near blooming size plants as of now that costed them 50USD-100USD to grow and raise, including the losses. How many will say 'never again with that scam' ? Good question.

What I know, and the calculations are very clear, is that the people involved in kovachii in Peru earned some hundreds thousands USD of profit, and they have some more hundreds of thousands of USD on the way, because they have a large supply of mature blooming size kovachii to cut down the competitors that are just starting to bloom their kovachii from flask for the last few months to a year. They have been the first to sell the flasks and make really huge profit, they are the first to make a huge profit selling the plants before anyone else.

In september, Arias sold more than 50.000USD of phrag kovachii blooming size, in cash. So much for those poor farmers...


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## JeanLux (Nov 29, 2009)

Sanderianum said:


> ....
> If you want to know maybe more about kovachii, you could ask Mr. Isaias Rolando about what was exactly going on ...
> ...



http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8640&highlight=Isaias+Rolando

Jean


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## Roth (Nov 29, 2009)

JeanLux said:


> http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8640&highlight=Isaias+Rolando
> 
> Jean



That's why I said 'maybe not'. I don't think someone is crazy enough to go to Peru to get hardcore proofs about how much the kovachii trade is worth, and how big the scam is, unless he wants to commit suicide. 

He was not wise to try to understand exactly what was behind the kovachii story... 

Anyway, I think people are not interested and just want to see the smoke screen of poor nurseries struggling to earn a few US. They don't want to hear that a scam brought to their perpetrators some hundreds thousands US.


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## JeanLux (Nov 29, 2009)

Sanderianum said:


> That's why I said 'maybe not'. I don't think someone is crazy enough to go to Peru to get hardcore proofs about how much the kovachii trade is worth, and how big the scam is, unless he wants to commit suicide.
> 
> He was not wise to try to understand exactly what was behind the kovachii story...



sorry for the missunderstanding, but in that case, IMO, the 'big grin' is too ambiguous!
As, 'pour le fond', of what you are saying, I think I got it !!! Jean


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