# Paph ooii



## Bolero (Mar 25, 2009)

Any thoughts on culture for this? I have the opportunity to get some and am just wondering how to grow them before I order 1 or 2.

Thanks guys, I know i can count on you!


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## SlipperKing (Mar 25, 2009)

WHAT! Show-off! I'm sure members of this group of growers (ooii growers) are far and few between!:evil:


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## Lance Birk (Mar 25, 2009)

Are these mature plants? Are they seedlings?

I just saw Michael Ooi a coupla days ago and he tells me P. ooi is extremely difficult to grow. He doesn't grow them in Penang.... too hot, but he has some in the mountains that seem to be doing okay.

This species comes from a continuously wet area, cold and foggy all the time. He said he'd never go back there, no matter what. 

If you cannot meet those conditions I hope you might know of another grower who could, then maybe we can keep this species in cultivation. Looks like it's a real toughie. I'd hate to lose it.

Can you give us any info on the history of those plants?


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## NYEric (Mar 25, 2009)

Lance Birk said:


> This species comes from a continuously wet area, cold and foggy all the time. He said he'd never go back there, no matter what.



.. and leeches; don't forget the leeches!!


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## goldenrose (Mar 25, 2009)

Lance Birk said:


> This species comes from a continuously wet area, cold and foggy all the time. He said he'd never go back there, no matter what.



Sounds like it belongs with masdies & dracs!


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## Bolero (Mar 26, 2009)

I grow Masdevallias and some Drac's but not many of the latter.

All I know is that they are seedlings that have come from flask.

I wasn't showing off, are they really that hard to come by? I will have to grab a couple. I grow parvi's outside in the cooler temps in winter here but it never gets to freezing. We have cool winters and hot summers and autumn and spring are perfect usually.

Hmmmmmm I am thinking I should give them a go.


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## SlipperKing (Mar 26, 2009)

I think so too. Also, you should share your source so we all can give them a go! Please!!


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## bench72 (Mar 26, 2009)

if your source is the same as what I'm thinking of, the last purchases I had from this vendor, the plants were very tiny, ie straight out of flask size... but all the plants I purchased has survived bar one... i think the ooii won't be ready till october...


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## TyroneGenade (Mar 26, 2009)

What substrate do they grow in?

The problem with wet and cold is that wet and cold, together with certain substrates equal wet and dead. To grow Masdies and Disa in my hot sunny south africa climate, I have to grow them in either gravel/peat or in live moss which I grow over a stony substrate constantly full of water. Maybe, fill the bottom of a pot with lime stone and try grow some sphagnum or Java moss over it for the plants?


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## Lance Birk (Mar 26, 2009)

Despite the fact that dead Sphagnum moss will kill many orchids when left too long in the pot, ...LIVE Sphagnum moss is a life-saver to most all species of orchids. 

I found this out in 1969 and it is in fact, what has allowed P. delenatii to become one of the most plentiful species of paphs. You can buy one in flower for $20 these days.

If anyone does manage to get plants of P. ooi, either seedlings or mature, I would suggest this:

Get appropriate size WHITE pots; NOT clear ones. Wrap live, growing Sphagnum moss around the roots of the plant and press he bundle into the pot. Wrap more moss if necessary and re-pot. Firm but not too tight. Water with distilled water only and place in bright part of the greenhouse.

Clear pots will allow algae to grow which will overtake the moss; white pots will allow the moss to continue to grow and at about the time the moss has expanded, it will be time to pot to the next size up.

If you follow these instructions you will have success.


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## truemadman (Mar 26, 2009)

Lance Birk said:


> Despite the fact that dead Sphagnum moss will kill many orchids when left too long in the pot, ...LIVE Sphagnum moss is a life-saver to most all species of orchids.
> 
> I found this out in 1969 and it is in fact, what has allowed P. delenatii to become one of the most plentiful species of paphs. You can buy one in flower for $20 these days.
> 
> ...



Would that work for paph anitum as well? Thanks


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## Mrs. Paph (Mar 26, 2009)

I guess I've never looked into it, but where does one get Live sphag? I've only ever gotten the dried kind, and occasionally a small section will start growing, but it doesn't seem to last long. I do use clear pots though, so it probably is an algae issue.


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## bench72 (Mar 26, 2009)

Thanks for the tip Lance, why white pots and not black or green or red (these are all the different plastic pot colours I have  )


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## Bolero (Mar 26, 2009)

White would let through enough light for the moss to grow without the algae getting enough to light to develop. I think that's what he means but hopefully he will clarify that.

Thanks Lance for the help.


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## SlipperFan (Mar 26, 2009)

I, too, would like to know where one can get live sphagnum. I really don't like the dead stuff for orchids.


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## cnycharles (Mar 26, 2009)

SlipperFan said:


> I, too, would like to know where one can get live sphagnum. I really don't like the dead stuff for orchids.



adirondack park, or most of canada (except you aren't supposed to collect plants/moss things like that from parks)


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## SlipperFan (Mar 26, 2009)

cnycharles said:


> adirondack park, or most of canada (except you aren't supposed to collect plants/moss things like that from parks)



Doesn't sound promising. I'm not in Canada, and I'm pretty law-abiding.


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## likespaphs (Mar 27, 2009)

i think sphag is native in many parts of the country. i have friends in ri who collect their own.
i've seen it on ebay, too or maybe a carnivorous plant vendor or grower?


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## Mrs. Paph (Mar 27, 2009)

I'm with SlipperFan - who knows a viable source for those not living in a humid forest area?


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## e-spice (Mar 27, 2009)

Bolero said:


> Any thoughts on culture for this? I have the opportunity to get some and am just wondering how to grow them before I order 1 or 2.
> 
> Thanks guys, I know i can count on you!



Based on the difficulty growing this species, sounds like ordering zero of them should be a definite option oke: 

e-spice


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## likespaphs (Mar 28, 2009)

Miss Paphiopedilum said:


> I'm with SlipperFan - who knows a viable source for those not living in a humid forest area?



ebay


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## Rick (Mar 28, 2009)

I agree with Lance that something magic happens with the use of live moss. When I get it to grow for me, the paphs in it do great.

Keeping it from getting over run with blue green algae is a concern. opaque pots will help, but also reduced fertilizer may be required. 

I had much more success with moss growth when my GH was generally cooler and I used MSU fert at 1/4 strength.

Lance reffered to sphagnum specifically, but I've had some good results with other species of moss to.


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## valenzino (Nov 4, 2009)

Bolero said:


> Any thoughts on culture for this? I have the opportunity to get some and am just wondering how to grow them before I order 1 or 2.
> 
> Thanks guys, I know i can count on you!



Paph. ooii is standard growing Paph.Is well known to be difficult to grow because all plants collected and distributed,first have been taken to lowland malaysia and grown for a while there...with the result of dehydration.
Also collectors use to cut off a lot of roots when they collect and so the plants have no roots.Paph ooii have a huge rhizome and huge aerial part(leaves) and with no roots have compleately no equilibrium.As start to loose water,the process became very difficult to stop...so plants became smaller and smaller takeing food from the leaves remaining with no ability to put out new wealthy roots...
In my opinion plants from flask will be quite easy to grow.
I suggest the same conditions of Dend. cuthbertsonii.
I will use a mix of lava rock,white marble,perlite and charcoal....a lot of water but extreamely good drainage.


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## Bolero (Nov 5, 2009)

valenzino said:


> Paph. ooii is standard growing Paph.Is well known to be difficult to grow because all plants collected and distributed,first have been taken to lowland malaysia and grown for a while there...with the result of dehydration.
> Also collectors use to cut off a lot of roots when they collect and so the plants have no roots.Paph ooii have a huge rhizome and huge aerial part(leaves) and with no roots have compleately no equilibrium.As start to loose water,the process became very difficult to stop...so plants became smaller and smaller takeing food from the leaves remaining with no ability to put out new wealthy roots...
> In my opinion plants from flask will be quite easy to grow.
> I suggest the same conditions of Dend. cuthbertsonii.
> I will use a mix of lava rock,white marble,perlite and charcoal....a lot of water but extreamely good drainage.



cuthbertsonii needs cool conditions and the leaves kept dry but lots of moisture at the roots. So is that what you're suggesting? I am still waiting for them but they are seedlings that have come from flask. I think I am getting 3 plants so it gives me a little room to experiment with conditions. 

Seeing you are suggesting similar conditions to cuthbertsonii, are you suggesting similar conditions to Masdevallia and Dracula then?

Thanks, this is most interesting.


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## TyroneGenade (Nov 5, 2009)

SlipperFan said:


> I, too, would like to know where one can get live sphagnum. I really don't like the dead stuff for orchids.



Find a damp highland area like a mountain. The odds are you will find some grow. The habitat to look out for is one which is wet to damp all year round. Grab a hand full (no one will notice its gone unless you get caught grabbing the handful) and put it on top of some gravel in a basin of shallow water. Full sun and off you go: endless supply of live moss.

At least thats what works for me. I pot all my Disa in live moss only. So far 75 success rate which beats 0% in the suggested mediums.


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## valenzino (Nov 5, 2009)

Bolero said:


> cuthbertsonii needs cool conditions and the leaves kept dry but lots of moisture at the roots. So is that what you're suggesting? I am still waiting for them but they are seedlings that have come from flask. I think I am getting 3 plants so it gives me a little room to experiment with conditions.
> 
> Seeing you are suggesting similar conditions to cuthbertsonii, are you suggesting similar conditions to Masdevallia and Dracula then?
> 
> Thanks, this is most interesting.



The conditions can be also similar to cool growing Dracula and Masdevallia.
Usually this conditions are not very easy to reproduce for the unusual mix of light/temperature/humidity/wind.
You have to have a place with very good air movement but also high humidity...and is not easy..but more difficult:
Good light with not high day temperatures...(25-27C° maximum).
I will grow them indoor with fluocompact lights,in S/H with a dedicated slow fan attached to ionizer to give humidity.

I had the lucky experience to see Paph topperii in the wild.Everywhere you can find that topperii is a hot grower....not true...in the night was cool(8-10C°) and for ooii will be the same in the cooler part of the year.
But,as topperii is 1300-1400 m,in the day get higher temperatures.
P.ooii is 2000 m so cooler days.Also the colour and intensity of light have to be different.
Paph. topperii takes untill 12 AM full sun,and so needs more "red colour light"..
P.ooii grows more under other plants,in a mix of full and shaded sun,so needs more blue light.This is very important for the Co2 metabolism,because the plants use to regulate the stomatal cycle also based on light and not only on temperatures and humidity.
Blue light seems to help plant to open stomata and so help plant breathing faster and growing faster,if have enought Co2 and humidity.


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## Bolero (Nov 6, 2009)

valenzino, I grow Masdevallias outside for most of the year so the conditions should suit. It's difficult getting humidity up in my dry climate but they do ok. I can keep temps at 8C and above so this should be ok, I will keep them drier during the winter. In winter I have them under 70% white shade cloth and summer I have two layers of 70% white shade cloth, hopefully that will do ok. During hot days I bring them inside into a cool home.

I think many plants can be grown differently to the recommended levels you see often in books. This has been really enlightening, thank you for all your advice.


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## Roth (Nov 6, 2009)

The keypoint with ooii and with sanderianum is that if the plants are not collected at the proper time of the year, it is a massive screwup to establish them. 

Many people were buying jungle sanderianum in october-november in Europe. If they have greenhouses and the temperature really goes down, the plants are sentenced to death, they are unable to root...

Ooii must be kept extremely wet to establish, but with high rates of fungicides, otherwise the remaining roots will be attacked by fungus or worse, bacterias. Second, ooii roots at specific time of the year, if the plant has 1 mature + 1 new growth, it will not root, the growths root only when they are about 1/5 to 1/4 the size of the mature growth, the same story that happened to thousands of jungle paph stonei sold over the last 30 years... Seedlings should be easier to grow, if they are genuine, which remains to be proven.

I have seen only very few pictures of ooii, and suspect only a handful of people have ever bloomed ooii, so if you get a flask, ask if you can get picture of the parents...


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## NYEric (Nov 6, 2009)

How did he get *that *word thru the filters!?! :evil:


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## likespaphs (Nov 6, 2009)

are there filters?


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