# Are there mini/compact white Cattleya hybrids?



## TyroneGenade (Monday at 4:30 PM)

The flurry of Catt photos has got me curious: are there white mini-Catt or compact-Catt hybrids? 

I am aware of mini alba types of loddigesii and walkeri but no little white Catt hybrids that look like Cow Bells, Bob Betts etc... Are there any? If not, why has no one bothered to try create them? 

I am eager to read your opinions.


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## Carmella.carey (Monday at 5:10 PM)

TyroneGenade said:


> The flurry of Catt photos has got me curious: are there white mini-Catt or compact-Catt hybrids?
> 
> I am aware of mini alba types of loddigesii and walkeri but no little white Catt hybrids that look like Cow Bells, Bob Betts etc... Are there any? If not, why has no one bothered to try create them?
> 
> I am eager to read your opinions.


There are a lot of large plant whites sutch as Bow Bells, Tiffin Bells, Bob Betts, ect. But when these hybrids are crossed with alba C.intermedia sometimes you can get somewhat frilly catts with small plants.
-Patrick


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## Carmella.carey (Monday at 5:14 PM)

There's one clone of Bob Betts that has really short bulbs like six inches with leafs.
-Patrick


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## TyroneGenade (Monday at 6:04 PM)

Anyone know the name for that mini Bob Betts and intermedia hybrids?


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## Carmella.carey (Monday at 6:35 PM)

C.Bob Betts 'Sestina' FCC/AOS is the extremely small clone C.Henrietta Japhet is a good lodagesii
Hybrid C.José Marti (Bob Betts x Bow Bells) is a very small plant W/ large blooms. and now that I think about it most of the intermedia hybrids are pretty large stature plants.

Shown is C. Carol Akerson (intermedia x Dorothy Machaill) about a 3 feet or a meter tall
-Patrick


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## TyroneGenade (Monday at 11:58 PM)

3 feet is almost as tall as the last Catt. Portia I saw on show some years back. I would love such BIG plants but don't have the space... hence my interest in mini/compact white Catts. 

CATTLEYA JOSE MARTI looks like a good candidate to try -- at the very least it available. 

This looks like a fun avenue for experimentation. Could crossing to walkeriana make these more compact, with big flowers on small plants? 

Thanks for the info.


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## Carmella.carey (Tuesday at 1:35 AM)

TyroneGenade said:


> 3 feet is almost as tall as the last Catt. Portia I saw on show some years back. I would love such BIG plants but don't have the space... hence my interest in mini/compact white Catts.
> 
> CATTLEYA JOSE MARTI looks like a good candidate to try -- at the very least it available.
> 
> ...


Walkeriana usually gives smaller blooms with heavier substance. There are a few good alba varieties of mossiae which are very short plants with up to 7 1/2 inch flowers and up to 7 per spike.

Here's a lavender form but just to show plant flower size ratio. Shown is C.mossiae 'Patrick's Choice' in a 4" pot


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## tomp (Tuesday at 9:52 AM)

TyroneGenade said:


> The flurry of Catt photos has got me curious: are there white mini-Catt or compact-Catt hybrids?
> 
> I am aware of mini alba types of loddigesii and walkeri but no little white Catt hybrids that look like Cow Bells, Bob Betts etc... Are there any? If not, why has no one bothered to try create them?
> 
> I am eager to read your opinions.


Gold Country Orchids (Alan Koch ) and Sunset valley Orchids (Fred Clarke) are a good place to start.
here is an example of one of Fred’s latest


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## mormodes (Tuesday at 12:08 PM)

tomp said:


> Gold Country Orchids (Alan Koch ) and Sunset valley Orchids (Fred Clarke) are a good place to start.
> here is an example of one of Fred’s latest
> 
> View attachment 37672


Click on the link. Tom. Its not white. Sunset Valley Orchids - Superior Hybrids for Orchid Enthusiasts


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## TyroneGenade (Tuesday at 12:24 PM)

I checked out Fred's list the moment the thought for this thread entered my mind. I think the problem here is that just because the different species have different "alba genes" and outcrossing can result in the dominant "color-genes" to be expressed again. Catts don't seem to behave like Paphs where niveum will white wash the progeny. This looks more promising: Cattleya Dubiosa ‘Scully’ HCC X C alaorii ‘Snowflake’ Pink White Orchid 4” Pot | eBay But the weather isn't good for bidding now... I hope they will still be there in the spring.


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## tomp (Tuesday at 7:52 PM)

mormodes said:


> Click on the link. Tom. Its not white. Sunset Valley Orchids - Superior Hybrids for Orchid Enthusiasts


You are right Kathy It’s not white. Part of my sentence got clipped. I was trying to point to Fred’s breeding efforts. If anyone can make mini white it might be him (or Alan).
Sorry Tyrone for my poorly worded post.


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## TyroneGenade (Tuesday at 9:02 PM)

No problem.


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## NEslipper (Tuesday at 10:30 PM)

TyroneGenade said:


> The flurry of Catt photos has got me curious: are there white mini-Catt or compact-Catt hybrids?
> 
> I am aware of mini alba types of loddigesii and walkeri but no little white Catt hybrids that look like Cow Bells, Bob Betts etc... Are there any? If not, why has no one bothered to try create them?
> 
> I am eager to read your opinions.


As others have mentioned, I'm sure Fred Clarke and/or Alan Koch are working on white-flowered minis or micro minis. Historically, there were the Japhet style cattleyas, which were by no means mini, but were more compact white catts than the standard Bow Bells type. C Henrietta Japhet (C Eucharis x C loddigesii) was registered by Clint McDade in 1946, and its offspring C Joan Lines in 1958 and C Marjorie Hausermann in 1964. Clint Mcdade even crossed the Bow Bells lineage onto some loddigesii genes in 1960 registering C Angel Bells (C Empress Bells x C Little Angel). Again, they're by no means mini, but they were attempts to bring down the flower and plant size, and I still see them pop up for sale from time to time.


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## tnyr5 (Yesterday at 10:09 AM)

They exist, but they're rare:


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