# Dream Hybrids MegaThread



## Ernie (Feb 18, 2010)

Was thinking today of some crosses I'd love to see made. Then thought it would be fun to see what you all have yearned for... _not_ shopping lists of things you've seen blooming, but hypothetical pairings you think might turn out pleasing. 

Post your parentage, and, if you want, your reasoning behind the cross. 

Of course he quality of the parents will determine the quality of the progeny, but imagine you're using decent to excellent parents. 

-Ernie


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## Ernie (Feb 18, 2010)

I'll start...

I have a place in my heart and on our benches for a couple general things: armeniacum hybrids, micranthum hybrids, Cochlopetalum influence for easy growing and blooming and more flowers, henryanum/tigrinum for dorsal spots. I'm sure I'll come up with more later, but to start...

I have been looking for Paph. Golden Diamond (armeniacum X fairrieanum), but figured they aren't around because maybe they are hard to grow or germination is poor? So, maybe something like (Golddollar X fairrieanum) or (Pedro's Moon X fairrieanum)? 

I'd also like to see a nice, large, pink (delenatii X cochlopetalum) hybrid, like Annabellchen or similar, onto henryanum. I predict oligofloral whites with pink overlay and a spotted dorsal on compact plants??? Wouldn't that be nifty? 

-Ernie


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## snow (Feb 18, 2010)

anything fairiarum will do for me


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## luvsorchids (Feb 18, 2010)

snow said:


> anything fairiarum will do for me



Me too :smitten:.

Susan


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## paphioboy (Feb 19, 2010)

Ooii x sanderianum and ooii x roth.


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## musiclovertony (Feb 19, 2010)

I think my dream is Paphiopedilum Madeline (argus x bellatulum). I've only seen reference to the cross once http://www.rogersorchids.be/paphiopedilum_madeline.htm It looks really stunning, though!


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## emydura (Feb 19, 2010)

Julius x sanderianum. I have seen one (an AM awarded one from Japan). One of the most amazing multis I have seen. Made Screaming Eagle look boring. I've never seen another. I here Julius isn't very fertile so I assume that is why we haven't seen many.

David


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## Roth (Feb 19, 2010)

paphioboy said:


> Ooii x sanderianum and ooii x roth.



Second one done, first one will be done soon


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## labskaus (Feb 19, 2010)

Could anybody please get those Mexipedium crosses to work?

Mex with bessae or its hybrids, maybe even kovachii/hybrids for compact colourful cuties.

On the Paph side I expect the first albinistic mutliflorals to turn up soon. I'd like to cross an albinistic Bel Royal with some of the modern, Brachy-heavy whites. Looking for plain white flowers, three on a stem, of decent shape and size. Think of a much improved version of Wild Thing album and you know what I mean.


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## Clark (Feb 19, 2010)

aniston x knowles :evil:


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## TyroneGenade (Feb 19, 2010)

labskaus said:


> ...I'd like to cross an albinistic Bel Royal with some of the modern, Brachy-heavy whites. Looking for plain white flowers...



Don't Brachy x multis normally produce over all pinkish flowers? Still, it would be nice to see more of these. An albinistic St Swithin would be something to look at.

Anyone done any line breeding of Woluwense or Wossner Koloniv towards getting more of the white together with more of the multifloral genes?


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## Roth (Feb 19, 2010)

TyroneGenade said:


> Don't Brachy x multis normally produce over all pinkish flowers? Still, it would be nice to see more of these. An albinistic St Swithin would be something to look at.
> 
> Anyone done any line breeding of Woluwense or Wossner Koloniv towards getting more of the white together with more of the multifloral genes?



They do indeed, as the white comes usually from the niveum parent in the albinos, if they are heavy on the brachy side. Otherwise, the white comes as well from insigne var. sanderAE, but insigne sanderae x philippinense album produced normal offspring. One very beautiful cross I have not seen for years is spicerianum x philippinense. Some are really gorgeous...


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## labskaus (Feb 19, 2010)

It depends on the parents. In this case both were album and it worked:

http://orchid-lin.blogspot.com/2009/06/paphiopedilum-wild-thing-fma-album.html

http://www.incharmorchids.com/gallery/categories.php?cat_id=4&page=2#

I've got two divisions of this cross, still waiting for them to flower. I must admit they are not the best growers for me. Vigor would be something else that needs improvement.


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## Bob in Albany N.Y. (Feb 19, 2010)

I will find a large spot on my benches for micranthum x bellatulum. I have heard that it has been made in the past. I also heard there were alot of dogs but the good ones were really good. Can someone school me on this?


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## etex (Feb 19, 2010)

WOW!! The In Charm Gallery is awesome! Page after page of beauties!!


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## tomkalina (Feb 19, 2010)

Hi Bob,

Paph. (micranthum x bellatulum) is named Paph. Kevin Porter. The good ones are few and far between, and most clones show some signs if color-break or flares in the pouch and/or petals. Most also show signs of streaking of the leaves long before they reach blooming size. One way to minimize (but not eliminate) such defects is to use the brachy as the capsule parent. All that having been said, however, the good ones are beautiful.

Thanks, Tom


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## Ernie (Feb 19, 2010)

tomkalina said:


> Hi Bob,
> 
> Paph. (micranthum x bellatulum) is named Paph. Kevin Porter. The good ones are few and far between, and most clones show some signs if color-break or flares in the pouch and/or petals. Most also show signs of streaking of the leaves long before they reach blooming size. One way to minimize (but not eliminate) such defects is to use the brachy as the capsule parent. All that having been said, however, the good ones are beautiful.
> 
> Thanks, Tom



Yeah, good KPs are excellent, the rest (majority) are compost IMO. Take it to the next level, Bob... what would you want to see to give you the Kevin Porter feel that might be more consistent or better? Use a red-saturated brachy hybrid onto micranthum or Fanaticum (per earlier Dick Wagner discussion) or Magic Lantern maybe? Magic Lantern must be a crappy parent for viability (?)- I'd personally try to use it to remake every micranthum hybrid (instead of micranthum of course). 

I'm glad you guys are getting into the spirit of this thread. Maybe we can inspire some of the breeders to make some of our dreams come true?  

-Ernie


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## paphioland (Feb 19, 2010)

TyroneGenade said:


> Don't Brachy x multis normally produce over all pinkish flowers? Still, it would be nice to see more of these. An albinistic St Swithin would be something to look at.
> 
> Anyone done any line breeding of Woluwense or Wossner Koloniv towards getting more of the white together with more of the multifloral genes?



If I am not mistaken an albanistic St Swithin is in seedling from Norito. We will see if 1/4 come out albums.


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## Bob in Albany N.Y. (Feb 19, 2010)

Sorry guys I should have known the name was Kevin Porter. I guess my memory is failing me. That plus I'm still looking for my morning coffee.


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## paphioland (Feb 19, 2010)

Jason Fischer x Kovachii

Elizabeth Castle x Jason Fischer

Good luck

paphs and mainly the complexes I will keep to myself


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## TyroneGenade (Feb 19, 2010)

labskaus said:


> It depends on the parents. In this case both were album and it worked:
> http://orchid-lin.blogspot.com/2009/06/paphiopedilum-wild-thing-fma-album.html



Oh my. That is striking! And what luck that the alba genes were compatible.



paphioland said:


> If I am not mistaken an albanistic St Swithin is in seedling from Norito. We will see if 1/4 come out albums.



If they have the same gene for albanism, and its resessive, and the exact same mutation then one should get all of them being albino. On the other hand, if the genes are different then none will be albino. But a selfing of that generaion would give 1/8 to 1/16th will be albino. If the alba mutation is dominant in both or either parent than one has a 100% to 50/50 chance of albinos. My point: this would be a silly bet unless one knows the genetics. Chatting with the Phal breeders, there are multiple paths to albino and almost always the albino mutation is in a different gene from species to species.

This is pretty much why I would tend to line breeding over making alba x alba crosses. At least in line breeding you have some idea of the starting material while alba genetics is a big guess.

On idea, to avoid inbreeding depression, would be to set out with several multiflorals (i.e. (1) kolopakingii (flower count), (2) philippinense (vigor + flower count), (3) rothschildianum (size + flower count) and cross each to, for instance, (4) niveum and the cross the progeny working towards several large clean white flowers per stem. My idea would be:

F1s: (5) 1 x 4, (6) 2 x 4, (7) 3 x 4
F2s: (8) 5 x 6 for vigour and flower count and (9) 6 x 7 for vigour and size
F3: 8 x 9 to give (10) which would ideally have several large white flowers on vigourous plant. This is, of course, wishful thinking. Even if every seed were sown and every plant grown out (who among us has the space! :crazy to blooming I doubt anyone would strike it this lucky first go. One would probably have to play around witht he F1 progeny a bit before moving on to stage 2.

Well, I think I've been enough of a wet blanket.


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## tim (Feb 19, 2010)

Bob in Albany said:


> I will find a large spot on my benches for micranthum x bellatulum. I have heard that it has been made in the past. I also heard there were alot of dogs but the good ones were really good. Can someone school me on this?



Last time I was at Nick Tannaci's there were still a few at $15 each...


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## NYEric (Feb 19, 2010)

Clarke, you'll be visiting me soon I see! :evil:
labskaus - spicerianum album?! 
paphioland - Jason Fischer x Pk was made only 8 plants survived out of flask, hopefully we'll have photos w/in a few months. 
I like the color that phrag fischeri adds to its hybrids, hopefully more crosses w/ besseae, schlimii and Pk will be made.


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## nikv (Feb 19, 2010)

I have a liemianum x gratrixianum that I purchased as a tiny seedling from Ray Rands years ago. It's one of only a few plants that I purchased as part of the six-packs that he offered in the _AOS Bulletin_ ads that I've managed to not kill. It's a multi-growth plant but has yet to bloom. But I dream of seeing this plant in bloom some day. I think it should be a very interesting flower. And as far as I can tell, this cross has not been registered.


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## paphioland (Feb 19, 2010)

TyroneGenade said:


> Oh my. That is striking! And what luck that the alba genes were compatible.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't quite get what you are saying will read it more carefully after work but there is no Roth album. So he probably took a philip album and crossed it with a roth to get SS. Then he either selfed or crossed two of those. The mutation should be identical in both loci, actually it almost has to be in simple mendelian genetics with out any added mutations. Penetrance with the roth Genes added I am not sure what will happen but highly likely 1/4 will be albino. Roth and Philip are also from the same group.
Aa x Aa= AA, Aa, aA, *aa*


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## paphioland (Feb 19, 2010)

TyroneGenade said:


> Oh my. That is striking! And what luck that the alba genes were compatible.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I reread what you stated quickly. Not in this example but in one where two albino species from different groups are crossed, there is no way to predict if they are on different loci. We don't know where in the enzyme chain the mutation is occuring and whether there is an alternate means of bypassing the deficiency. So there is no way to predict except to bloom them if you take two albino species and cross them. How do you know where the mutated gene/defective enyme is? Even if you did I am not sure many people are well versed on the enzymatic chain and alternate pathways of different group paph species pigmentation.


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## paphioland (Feb 19, 2010)

no question you could line breed and self your way possibly to lighter or maybe even pure albino plants but that takes along time and lots of effort. who has time to mess around with 20 generations of roths. Unless of course you find a roth that is albanistic or very light.


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## KyushuCalanthe (Feb 19, 2010)

OK, on the Cyp front there is lots of work to be done. Here are some ideas:

- californicum with just about any large flowered species, but the most interesting would be with irapeanum hoping for a large, multiflowered, warmth tolerant plant.

- any large flowered tibeticum variety with similarly large macranthos with deep color - the hoteiatsumorianum varieties come to mind. The goal is for a large flower with deep "red" color.

- any of the spotted leaf species (section Trigonopedia) crossed with large flowered species such as macranthos, tibeticum, fasciolatum, kentuckiense, etc. The goal is to create large multicolored flowers on novel, dwarf plants. A few have already been done, but there is lots of potential left.

- more guttatum hybrids, especially with large flowered species, such as reginae, macranthos, etc. Shooting for a dwarf plant with good sized flowers on a more warmth tolerant plant.

- anything with subtropicum just because it is such a weird species! Goals would include a multiflowered plant with actual heat tolerance.

And the list goes on. Cyp breeding is still in its infancy. So far species such as fasciolatum and kentuckiense have produced good crosses while others like parviflorum and macranthos have resulted in more variable outcomes. The dream Cyp for me would be a huge, deep colored flower (around 6" in spread) on a relatively short plant - basically a very large flowered tibeticum.


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## NYEric (Feb 19, 2010)

Cyp propagation is still in it's infancy!


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## ohio-guy (Feb 19, 2010)

I saw a flower at a show once that looked to me like it was Armeniacum x suk. I know it is a named cross, but I can't find a pic. Anyway, I would like to see a cross like that that was easy to grow and bloom....basically a yellow background, with fairly large flower size and lots of freckles.....


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## SlipperFan (Feb 19, 2010)

I'd like a very white very long petaled Phrag with red dots in the pouch...


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## ohio-guy (Feb 19, 2010)

Dot likes dots.........


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## KyushuCalanthe (Feb 19, 2010)

NYEric said:


> Cyp propagation is still in it's infancy!



Don't worry, they'll grow up eventually!


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## Hera (Feb 19, 2010)

etex said:


> WOW!! The In Charm Gallery is awesome! Page after page of beauties!!



Ditto!! I think the glaucophyllum x spicerianum was one of my dream crosses. Love the pink pouch, and I like the reflexed dorsal of spic. Its kind of like the farrieanum petals, it has its own distinctive look.


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## Roth (Feb 19, 2010)

tomkalina said:


> Hi Bob,
> 
> Paph. (micranthum x bellatulum) is named Paph. Kevin Porter. The good ones are few and far between, and most clones show some signs if color-break or flares in the pouch and/or petals. Most also show signs of streaking of the leaves long before they reach blooming size. One way to minimize (but not eliminate) such defects is to use the brachy as the capsule parent. All that having been said, however, the good ones are beautiful.
> 
> Thanks, Tom



There is another thing, the exhibition type micranthum with the huge pouches are not the ones to use for that cross - and quite a few others-. The best is to use a well balanced micranthum with good color, big petals and quite small but nicely shaped pouch. Then there are less flares in my experience. Another way, I have seen once micranthum kwangsee x bellatulum, they turned out without any streaks.

In the not yet made hybrids that I would love to see, selfings of a Michael Koopowitz made with a very good philippinense album. Those should be something.

Spicerianum crosses are grossly underrated. I have seen a few of those, including x parishii, x philippinense, x roth, and some were really amazing. spicerianum x kolo could look really nice in fact, or Leeanum using the insigne sanderae as a parent x kolo...

Spicerianum album indeed exists, at least 4 times it has been found. I got a plant from China of that, there was apparently one in the US, and an all pink spicerianum too, wild collected and if I remember correctly it got an award, and another one has been offered to several people from Burma, where this species gros in masses in the north.


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## Ernie (Feb 19, 2010)

SlipperFan said:


> I'd like a very white very long petaled Phrag with red dots in the pouch...



Oooo. I'm liking the sound of that too. Good one, Dot.

-Ernie


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## paphioboy (Feb 19, 2010)

What about sanderianum album (if it exists) x roth album (again, if it exists)... Or PEOY or Bel Royal made with both album parents...


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## valenzino (Feb 20, 2010)

paphioboy said:


> What about sanderianum album (if it exists) x roth album (again, if it exists)... Or PEOY or Bel Royal made with both album parents...



Unfortunately there are no roth or sand albino forms....in my knowledge..

But you can see a nice example looking Paph. kolosand album...I think Paphioland from this forum posted it somewhere....really beautifull!!!

My dream hybrid is Phrag. kovachii x Paph. hangianum.....probably will be a dream forever!
I will be very curious to see Paph. sanderianum X Paph. sangii.
Obviously I want to see Paph. hangianum alba X every parvi/brachy alba.

I have already in flask Paph. hangianum x Paph. tigrinum....


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## paphioland (Feb 20, 2010)

valenzino said:


> Unfortunately there are no roth or sand albino forms....in my knowledge..
> 
> But you can see a nice example looking Paph. kolosand album...I think Paphioland from this forum posted it somewhere....really beautifull!!!
> 
> ...



It has to be seen in person to fully appreciate. It is totally album when I bloomed it.


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## lindafrog (Feb 21, 2010)

I'll second the mexipedium crossed with besseae for tiny bright red jewels. How about dracula vampira crossed with masd vietchiana-can you imagine the brillant striping on that one..


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## TyroneGenade (Feb 22, 2010)

paphioland said:


> How do you know where the mutated gene/defective enyme is?



Hi and thanks for the reply. Its is perhaps useful to explore this further. Genetically, hybridizing is very much like buying a lottery ticket. If that was an alba phil which was used then this will prove a very interesting experiment as my alba phil and breeder roth is on its way 

I've been doing some more looking and its seems that stonei is more useful for good form than roth. Any opinions on that? I'm feeling pretty silly that I never got a stonei when I had the chance. But I did get a niveum.

From the old watercolors of insigne-types x cochlo crosses, the progeny look to be very colourful and have good form---just look at Festive Hunter which was posted on the forum a few weeks back. Why isn't this line of breeding pursued more? A problem with too many genetic variables in the later generations?


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## goldenrose (Feb 22, 2010)

TyroneGenade said:


> ...Anyone done any line breeding of Woluwense .....


I doubt it, who's lucky enough to have a blooming Woluwense?



valenzino said:


> ...My dream hybrid is Phrag. kovachii x Paph. hangianum.....probably will be a dream forever!
> I will be very curious to see Paph. sanderianum X Paph. sangii.
> 
> I have already in flask Paph. hangianum x Paph. tigrinum....


 
PK x hang = farout!!!
I have a roth x sangii & it spiked a couple years ago but blasted!
Hang x tigrinum could be interesting.


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## slippertalker (Feb 22, 2010)

A few ideas for phrags:

Phrag manzurii x besseae flavum
With the longifolium album, crosses onto boissierianum, besseae flavum (Tom Kalina has already done this one) and the eventual flavum Don Wimber.

Backcrosses of kovachii, including Fritz Schomburg x besseae, Haley Decker x besseae, both of these will intensify the color and flatten out the tendency of kovachii to waffle. 

kovachii album (if it exists) x schlimii

remakes of early besseae crosses using "improved" line bred besseaes.


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## NYEric (Feb 22, 2010)

slippertalker said:


> A few ideas for phrags:
> 
> Phrag manzurii x besseae flavum
> With the longifolium album, crosses onto boissierianum, besseae flavum (Tom Kalina has already done this one) and the eventual flavum Don Wimber.
> ...



:drool:


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## cnycharles (Feb 22, 2010)

slippertalker said:


> A few ideas for phrags:
> 
> Backcrosses of kovachii, including Fritz Schomburg x besseae, Haley Decker x besseae, both of these will intensify the color and flatten out the tendency of kovachii to waffle.



just a polite note that it's nice to see something once in a while that isn't flat, flat flat! (I wouldn't make a very good aos judge, i'd be trying to award everything that caused other judges to get a case of the hives, probably)


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## musiclovertony (Feb 22, 2010)

cnycharles said:


> just a polite note that it's nice to see something once in a while that isn't flat, flat flat! (I wouldn't make a very good aos judge, i'd be trying to award everything that caused other judges to get a case of the hives, probably)



Agreed! I like some good, quirky character


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## slippertalker (Feb 22, 2010)

cnycharles said:


> just a polite note that it's nice to see something once in a while that isn't flat, flat flat! (I wouldn't make a very good aos judge, i'd be trying to award everything that caused other judges to get a case of the hives, probably)



While I disagree a bit, the lack of flatness can also be accentuated by other parents that aren't flat like the cross of kovachii x czerwiakowianum to create an interesting flower with some character. With the lack of dominance in color by kovachii, a besseae backcross will not only flatten the flower but add a depth of color not evident in the early crosses.

Judges aren't apt to award flowers with poor shape, weak substance, muddy color, etc. and frankly although many say otherwise the public usually purchases plants that carry good color and shape versus mediocrity. Hybridizers also reflect what judges look for, but flowers that aren't awardable are certainly desirable in many cases. I have more than a few myself.


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## kentuckiense (Feb 23, 2010)

lindafrog said:


> I'll second the mexipedium crossed with besseae for tiny bright red jewels.



I'll have both in bloom shortly, so I may give it a spin. Can't hurt.


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## tocarmar (Feb 23, 2010)

In my dream world I would like to see paph. sanderianum & cyp. flavum. (album would be better) Having a long petaled cyp. would be really interesting!! IMHO


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## kentuckiense (Feb 23, 2010)

tocarmar said:


> In my dream world I would like to see paph. sanderianum & cyp. flavum. (album would be better) Having a long petaled cyp. would be really interesting!! IMHO



How about Cyp. kentuckiense?

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60


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## tocarmar (Feb 24, 2010)

They are nice!! But I would like longgggggggggggggg petals!!


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## fbrem (Feb 26, 2010)

Maybe I just like this plant to much but I'd like to see some brachy x cochlo hybrids, something like I posted this morning,

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15362 

crossed with armeniacum to make a nice easier growing roundish yellow, crossed with a roth or roth heavy hybrid to make something similar to brachy x coryo crosses but easier to grow, bloom, and more floriferous, or with fairrieanum for something similar to paph. Angela that may be multifloral.

Forrest


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## Ernie (Feb 26, 2010)

Forrest,

I'm on board with the ((brachy x cochlo) x fairrieanum) idea! Good thinking. 

-Ernie




fbrem said:


> Maybe I just like this plant to much but I'd like to see some brachy x cochlo hybrids, something like I posted this morning,
> 
> http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15362
> 
> ...


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## fbrem (Feb 27, 2010)

Ernie said:


> Forrest,
> 
> I'm on board with the ((brachy x cochlo) x fairrieanum) idea! Good thinking.
> 
> -Ernie



anyone got pollen from nice fairrie, I'd like to try making my first cross.

Forrest


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## Ernie (Feb 27, 2010)

Big red complexes (bulldogs) backcrossed onto charlesworthii are floating around now...

Soooooo, anyone seen the album version of that... a yellow/green complex onto charlesworthii fma. sandowiae (album)???? I'd love to have a monstrous hybrid that could stunt double for a chuckworth sandow!!! Blaring white staminode and chubby dorsal sepal are a must! 

-Ernie


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## likespaphs2 (Feb 27, 2010)

fairrieanum x hangianum


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## paphreek (Feb 27, 2010)

fbrem said:


> anyone got pollen from nice fairrie, I'd like to try making my first cross.
> 
> Forrest



I'll send you a PM.


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## paphioland (Feb 27, 2010)

Ernie said:


> Big red complexes (bulldogs) backcrossed onto charlesworthii are floating around now...
> 
> Soooooo, anyone seen the album version of that... a yellow/green complex onto charlesworthii fma. sandowiae (album)???? I'd love to have a monstrous hybrid that could stunt double for a chuckworth sandow!!! Blaring white staminode and chubby dorsal sepal are a must!
> 
> -Ernie



It has been done. We will see what they look like.


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## paphreek (Feb 27, 2010)

Ernie said:


> Big red complexes (bulldogs) backcrossed onto charlesworthii are floating around now...
> 
> Soooooo, anyone seen the album version of that... a yellow/green complex onto charlesworthii fma. sandowiae (album)???? I'd love to have a monstrous hybrid that could stunt double for a chuckworth sandow!!! Blaring white staminode and chubby dorsal sepal are a must!
> 
> -Ernie



Great idea, Ernie! It might not be as easy as it appears, however.

Please excuse my clumsy explanation. Due to the recessive nature of the color suppression genes in the charlesworthii fma. sandowiae, and the fact the necessary genes may not be at the same address on the DNA strand of both parents, the resultant F1 generation might not benefit from the album genes of the fma. sandowiae, and in fact could turn out looking as if the cross was made with a normal charlesworthii. To achieve the desired look, the F1's would most likely need to be sib crossed or backcrossed onto the charlesworthii fma. sandowiae. Perhaps then, some of the F2 generation would achieve the desired look.


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## Ernie (Feb 27, 2010)

Then you better get to work now, Ross.  Actually, I figured as much. 

-Ernie


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## Sue (Feb 28, 2010)

I think I've mentioned this to you before, Ernie, but I'd really like to see Paph. (micranthum x venustum), or vice versa. I think it'd be super-cool. And kinda dirty-looking.


I also want:

P. sangii x any of the cochlopetalum

P. villosum x concolor

P. appletonianum (or similar) x delenatii

P. sangii x delenatii (or vietnamense)

P. helenae x appletonianum

P. appletonianum x niveum


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## PaphMadMan (Feb 28, 2010)

Sue said:


> I also want:
> 
> P. sangii x any of the cochlopetalum
> P. villosum x concolor
> ...



I'm with Sue on the appletonianum and sangii hybrids... with any/all parvis especially.


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## paphreek (Feb 28, 2010)

Ernie said:


> Then you better get to work now, Ross.  Actually, I figured as much.
> 
> -Ernie



I've actually been considering the same idea using barbigerum fma. aureum and charlesworthii fma. sandowiae. Eventually I'd like to see a vigorous growing green and white Paph Little Trouble.


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## Leo Schordje (Mar 4, 2010)

Okay, I finally got caught up enough to read this thread. 

I would like to see complex kovachii hybrids, to stabilize the form and shape, no floppy flowers, and keep the big size and intense colors. 

(Alfredo Manrique x Allison Strom) etc. 

((sargentianum or lindleyanum x kovachii) x kovachii) - to get a parallel version of Jason Fisher substititing kovachii for besseae. 

I also would like to see more henryanum hybrids. All henryanum hybrids are good.


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## Drorchid (Mar 4, 2010)

Ernie said:


> Big red complexes (bulldogs) backcrossed onto charlesworthii are floating around now...
> 
> Soooooo, anyone seen the album version of that... a yellow/green complex onto charlesworthii fma. sandowiae (album)???? I'd love to have a monstrous hybrid that could stunt double for a chuckworth sandow!!! Blaring white staminode and chubby dorsal sepal are a must!
> 
> -Ernie



We have a charlesworthii fma. sandowiae x Elfstone, If I have time I will post some pictures. I think the cross originated from Oz. We were actually able to use it as a parent as well, and have some seedlings going in the lab.

Robert


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## Drorchid (Mar 4, 2010)

Leo Schordje said:


> Okay, I finally got caught up enough to read this thread.
> 
> I would like to see complex kovachii hybrids, to stabilize the form and shape, no floppy flowers, and keep the big size and intense colors.
> 
> ...



Agree with you on those crosses! especially the ((sargentianum or lindleyanum x kovachii) x kovachii)!

other kovachii crosses that will be outstanding are: Fritz Schomburg (kovachii x besseae) x kovachii and Fritz Schomburg x besseae.

Robert


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## Drorchid (Mar 4, 2010)

Another type of "dream cross" is any cochlopetalum intersectional. cross (for instance Paph. Vanguard or Paph. (vietnamense x moquetteanum)) backcrossed onto a cochlopetalum species or hybrid. In that way you would get sequential flowers that keep blooming with different colors. We have one primulinum that has had over 60 flowers on a spike and is in its 3rd year of blooming! It will be nice if they can pass that trait to other hybrids. I have tried breeding in those lines, but cochlopetalum intersectional hybrids tend to be reluctant breeders. The only successful cross that I have gotten thus far is (primulinum x delenatii) backcrossed onto our 4N primulinum. I can't wait to see if that will be a sequential bloomer!

Robert

Robert


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## Leo Schordje (Mar 5, 2010)

Drorchid said:


> Agree with you on those crosses! especially the ((sargentianum or lindleyanum x kovachii) x kovachii)!
> 
> other kovachii crosses that will be outstanding are: Fritz Schomburg (kovachii x besseae) x kovachii and Fritz Schomburg x besseae.
> Robert



Robert, we are definitely thinking along the same lines. Great ideas. :clap:

Here is another one I would love to see, and it is not new, but rather old. I would love to see *Paph Pelican (Sanderio-Superbiens x rothschildianum)* registered in 1904 by N.C. Cookson - don't you wish you could see this one? I found no images using Google. 

Paph Sanderio-Superbiens was registered in 1893 also by N.C. Cookson, I wager it was interesting but possibly not too shapely.


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## Ernie (Nov 23, 2010)

Bump.

To get some input from the loads of new folks here...


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## Brian Monk (Nov 23, 2010)

I love whites, and multiflorals, and sequentials. The first of these I ever got was Nimit, and it had three blooms and two buds on two spike last year. It is my icon. I have tried making several crosses with it, putting Brachys back onto it, with only one pod so far. Very few embryos, and the mother flasks were contaminated. So, more white sequetials.

The far-out intersectionals hold some appeal for me. I'm with Ernie when it comes to Cochlo crosses - they add an ease of growth and flowering that is difficult to find in other sections. The addition of Barbata and Cochlo genes to complex Paphs may seem like a pot-plant game for some, but to me it seems like a reasonable step toward producing multi-floral complexes that are easier to bloom. Who wouldn't want an Elfstone or White Knight or Winston Churchill with two flowers open at the same time on the same stem, with another on the way?


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Nov 24, 2010)

As far as kovachii goes...I'd like to see more line breeding and crosses between floriferous/hardy/fast growing strains of the species. I am still not impressed by any kovachii hybrid, and I'd much rather see a more freely available, affordable, and faster growing specimen of the species.


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## paworsport (Nov 27, 2010)

3 or 4 "things" : 

Delrosi x micranthum : two seedlings which are growing well ow at home
Lola Bird, a cross form Sam Tsui
Lola Bird x roth again from Sam
a complex : Silent Knight x Amanda


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## Erythrone (Nov 27, 2010)

I am dreaming of many plants... but today, I dream of red long petals Phrag...

Maybe Phrag wallisii x Super Rubies? (Orchidbabies made that cross I think)


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## Ernie (Nov 27, 2010)

Resteer...

Use your mind's eye and imagine what you want to see in the future. Not stuff you can buy or mail order right now or have on your bench already growing. And tell us what parents you'd use to get that desired result.


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## NYEric (Nov 27, 2010)

Phrag Eumilia Arias x fischeri or x Pink Panther. = Purple phrags!


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## paworsport (Nov 28, 2010)

one true red paph : Kevin Porter x Amanda for example or Kevin Porter x Paeny Regency !


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