# Helena in basket culture



## Bjorn (Sep 20, 2011)

Approximately one year ago I aquired four P. helenae and planted them in a plastic basket. The below picture is taken in the end of March this year. The mush. is allowed, its a part of the growing regime I try to apply and seems not to harm at all. :wink:





Now some flowers are appearing, the first one is seen here in this picture from last week. In total there should be some 6-8 flowers coming, but unfortunately not simultaneously. This flower is about to fade now but others appear. 3 stalks are visible in the pic. The petal of the flower has been touching the leaves thats why it has a different angle. There seem to be a certain variability in the flowers of the plants, particularly the one back to the right may be interesting. It seems to lack pigment on the flower sheet. Coult it be an albino? Time will tell..


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## Bob in Albany N.Y. (Sep 20, 2011)

Very interesting. So, all four plants are in the same basket, correct?


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## Bjorn (Sep 20, 2011)

Yes they are, have had a colony of henryanum and one of micranthum going in the same substrate since 1997 now. Might not be that long lasting this time(?) the vitality of the micranthum colony seems to fade now though, but the henryanum is coming with 10 spikes and is actually propagating by seeds in the basket. Will revert to the henryanum later.


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## paphioboy (Sep 20, 2011)

Very cool! Love to see pics when more flowers are in bloom... How deep is the basket and what media do you use? All bark?


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## Bjorn (Sep 20, 2011)

paphioboy said:


> Very cool! Love to see pics when more flowers are in bloom... How deep is the basket and what media do you use? All bark?



I try to imagine how the plants grow in nature and try to adopt a bit to that. This one has a mix of bark, sand, marble pebbles and expanded clay together with some ground dolomite and finally half decayed and minced twigs (there you have the origin of the mushroom). Recently I have shifted towards more stone, almost entirely crushed marble with a little organics for certain species like hangianum etc. A certain addition of minced oak-leaves and twigs is also good for growth together with the decaying twigs. I have had some really interesting growth rates for some plants using this mix. I do however feed additionally with all water. TDS is around 500ppm but cut back during winter.
Had some rot problems but after I reduced on potassium and increased Mg and Ca (according to Ricks ideas), it seems to have improved significantly.
The media is some 10-12cm deep and the baskets are simply plastic baskets that is intended to use for storage etc. I do however melt holes in the bottom with a soldering iron.:evil: The aeration from the sides is important I believe.
The helenae in the pic is about to go now, but a couple new ones are there. will revert with more pics later.


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## NYEric (Sep 20, 2011)

I've always been interested in your culture but my growing area isn't condusive to a media where bugs could become an issue. Looking good though.


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## paphioboy (Sep 20, 2011)

> I have had some really interesting growth rates for some plants using this mix.



Can you please expand more on this? Is 'interesting' a good or bad thing? or do you mean growth rate is not at a constant pace?


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## SlipperFan (Sep 20, 2011)

Interesting concept. I do notice that your plants are all similar in size. I don't think it would work if they weren't.


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## Shiva (Sep 20, 2011)

Interesting! The plants look very healthy. What's the temperature range?


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## Paph_LdyMacBeth (Sep 20, 2011)

This is really really neat. It will be something to try when I get a better growing space. Thanks for sharing


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## SlipperKing (Sep 20, 2011)

Great culture techinque!


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## Rick (Sep 20, 2011)

This is too cool Bjorn. We must be psychic twins.:wink: The similarities are striking.

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18566

I'm also thrilled that you have some plants in baskets since 1997 (14 years!!) Do you ever have to replenish the media? I can't imagine that the organic parts would last for too many years.

I also think the aeration is important. I set up some paphs using the same moss, gravel mix as plants in baskets, but in aircone pots. They started doing poorly fairly fast so I melted a bunch more holes in the pots that seemed to improve their spirits considerably.


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## chrismende (Sep 21, 2011)

I agree with everyone that this is wonderful! I've been slowly planting more and more plants in baskets and plastic pots intended for hydro culture - net pots. Seems the way to go with any paph that is rot-prone or stoloniferous, but clearly most paphs need lots of air around the rootzone.


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## Bjorn (Sep 21, 2011)

NYEric said:


> I've always been interested in your culture but my growing area isn't condusive to a media where bugs could become an issue. Looking good though.



Frankly Eric, the way you grow, I understand it very well. However bugs is probably not a problem in this set-up, if you want moss to grow its the humidity that may be restricting. And of course the watering. It is not straight forward to water these things without using a hose.


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## Bjorn (Sep 21, 2011)

paphioboy said:


> Can you please expand more on this? Is 'interesting' a good or bad thing? or do you mean growth rate is not at a constant pace?



Interesting in this context is good. I made some pics yesterday and will put it on a separate thread later.:wink:


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## Bjorn (Sep 21, 2011)

SlipperFan said:


> Interesting concept. I do notice that your plants are all similar in size. I don't think it would work if they weren't.



Agree if you mix up species, or have plants with very big roots but I have examples of seed germinating and growing to full size together with established plants (in similar set-up). Guess the best is to use it for small sized species like helenae, henryanum +++ Would not expect it to work very well with e.g. four kolopakingii etc. (unless in a veeery big basket :clap


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## Bjorn (Sep 21, 2011)

Shiva said:


> Interesting! The plants look very healthy. What's the temperature range?



In that part of my greenhouse I try to keep summer temperature below 30C at day night 20C, humidity is high (80-90%). Winter is dry down to below 10C at night for a couple of months while day is around 20-25C. Humidity relatively high 70%(?). I can control this by a combination of AC and fogger.


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## Bjorn (Sep 21, 2011)

Rick said:


> This is too cool Bjorn. We must be psychic twins.:wink: The similarities are striking.
> 
> http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18566
> 
> ...



The media is replenished to some extent, when moss gets too excessive I remove it and replace top layer with new substrate since some is lost. Perhaps shredded twigs and leaves(oak) should be the best for the top dressing? The medium itself is quite rich in inorganics, notably sand, expanded clay perlite crushed marble and dolomite etc. so its not breaking down too much. Of course the medium changes over time, but I believe the secret to the longivity is the generous amounts of limestone or dolomite. I am here talking about gravel and sand like qualities, not the kind offered to correct pH of the lawn. I know that you understand the difference Rick, but always make sure its not "lime", quick-lime, hydrated lime or something containing it, since thse things are very alkaline. When we talk about lime in this context it is normally as limestone, i.e. the carbonate. Dolomite is of course also crushed stone of the doble carbonate (Ca,Mg)CO3.


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## Bjorn (Sep 21, 2011)

I do not know what happened to the colors, but photography is not my thing.
This is how it looked yesterday, the basket is turned around so the presumably "alba" or whatever is left front. Three flowers, there is another of these buds and two of the "whateveritiscouldbealba" buds hiding.





My old colony of henryanum starts to flower as well here is a pic of the 14 year old colony, two of the 10(11?) flowers. The right one sits on a plant that appeared as the result of a flie's visit to a flower some years ago. The outcome was seeds that were spread around and some(5) plants emerged due to that. This is the first that blooms.




Here is a kindof "overview" of the old "basketculture". It is actuall a plastic box that was used for mushrooms at that time. The quality was very bad and it has become quite brittle by now. Should not touch it too much.
And if anyone looks closely they will find plants in the background that are hardly surviving and that has got a good dose of rot. That is a part of the game though and I continously strive to minimise the appearance of it.:clap:


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## Marc (Sep 21, 2011)

Wouldn't repotting in a same enviroment revitalise the micranthum colony?


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## Bjorn (Sep 21, 2011)

Marc said:


> Wouldn't repotting in a same enviroment revitalise the micranthum colony?



Guess you are right, its probably time to do something like that. Has to mature a seed-capsule first though.


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## SlipperKing (Sep 21, 2011)

How often do you fertilzer and at what concentration?


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## Bjorn (Sep 21, 2011)

fertiliser? In all the water TDS around 500ppm. Else look at the below thread, that I made earlier today.
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22534


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## SlipperKing (Sep 21, 2011)

Bjorn said:


> fertiliser? In all the water TDS around 500ppm. Else look at the below thread, that I made earlier today.
> http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22534



I just read it a second ago! Thanks


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## paphioboy (Sep 21, 2011)

That's an awesome henryanum!! :clap: :clap: :drool: I do think the propensity of mushrooms growing in your media is a result of your previous mushroom growing.. LOL I rarely see such obvious fungi growing in my organic mixes..


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## Rick (Sep 21, 2011)

Bjorn said:


> fertiliser? In all the water TDS around 500ppm. Else look at the below thread, that I made earlier today.
> http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22534



What is the TDS of your water before adding the fertilizer?

Or do you know hardness and alkalinity concentrations?


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## Bjorn (Sep 22, 2011)

The water is a mix of rainwater and surface water from a nearby bog. TDS normally not more than 50ppm, recently it has been lower due to much rain. Hardness etc. close to nothing. The bog water contains some sulphur compounds according to the smell of it.


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## Bjorn (Sep 23, 2011)

*pictures in the dark*

More helenae. A close up in the dark using my phone produced this nottoogood picture of the flower with its back to us in a previous piture(actually the one facing left inthe "dull" picture) Unfortunately these "acrobatic" exercises made me snap a coccineum bud about to flower, these things are irritating, but I do not care too much since they will bloom again next year and also because there are 3 more buds coming Back to the helenae, obviously quite a variable species, this is diffefrent from the others. Tiny flowers about 1.5in.(4cm)





I did also an attempt of getting a decent photo of the "happy henryanums" in the basket/tray since they are probably at their best now. Its not too easy since the flowers point in different directions and it is not possible to arrange them by will as you can with pots. pls. enjoy.


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## biothanasis (Sep 23, 2011)

Great work!!!! :clap:


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## TyroneGenade (Sep 23, 2011)

Thanks for posting all this valuable information. I think the leaves may be the critical ingredient. In the wild, best I can tell, Paphs grow among the leaf-litter either on the forest floor, on the rock ledges/crevices or in trees. I've now begun repotting my plants in well ventilated pots in a medium of crushed brick, some limestone and then leaf litter. So far so good... The experiments are on going. I do find that regular leaves decompose quickly and am now going to proceed with oak leaves instead.


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## Bjorn (Sep 23, 2011)

Please Tyrone, give us info on your results. I think that you may be on the right track, sound similar to my ideas


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## TyroneGenade (Sep 23, 2011)

When I have results I will share for sure.

Earlier in the year I put a Leeanum division into crushed brick and some leaf litter. I had a look at it yesterday and the roots were fine BUT there were no leaves left in the mix, just the brick. I added some fine milled bark to hold water but will add oak leaves from now on and see how that goes.

Kind regards


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## Bjorn (Sep 23, 2011)

Perhaps not the right leaves? I have started harvesting oak (quercus petreae/robur) twigs with leaves during late summer, dry it all and process it all through compost shredder that cuts and crushes (the quiet type). Turns it all into pieces. Later this is what I add and the mix of leaves, twigs and wood can be quite durable. I think that the species is important, oak is regarded as one of the best. Some other trees may disintegrate very fast. I am unfamiliar with the flora you have acess to in S-Africa so you have to look around for something that is a bit durable.
Good luck!


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## Cochlopetalum (Sep 23, 2011)

Quercus robur is known to make a very acidic kompost. Couldnt that be a problem ?.


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## Bjorn (Sep 23, 2011)

Probably not when we use limestone in the mix. Another thing; sphagnum is very acidic (pH 3-4) and is till extensively used. And finally: This is not my invention, its based on experience from the early days of orchid growing, in those days mixes with loam and tan bark were sucessfully used for growing many kinds of orchids.
Generally there seems to be some misconception regarding orchids and oak amonst orchid growers. One common misconception is that oak-bark is unsuited for mounting. Quite the opposite is my experience, I only use oak slabs with bark, that is my preferred choice, and the plants love to dig their roots into the cracks and fissures of the oak-bark. Much better than cork (-oak):clap::rollhappy:


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## Cochlopetalum (Sep 23, 2011)

Okey, I think I'll have to consult my old gardening dictionary from the 1940's.


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## Rick (Sep 23, 2011)

Bjorn said:


> Probably not when we use limestone in the mix. Another thing; sphagnum is very acidic (pH 3-4) and is till extensively used. And finally: This is not my invention, its based on experience from the early days of orchid growing, in those days mixes with loam and tan bark were sucessfully used for growing many kinds of orchids.
> Generally there seems to be some misconception regarding orchids and oak amonst orchid growers. One common misconception is that oak-bark is unsuited for mounting. Quite the opposite is my experience, I only use oak slabs with bark, that is my preferred choice, and the plants love to dig their roots into the cracks and fissures of the oak-bark. Much better than cork (-oak):clap::rollhappy:



Part of the nutrition research I was doing for understanding what may be ideal for Paphs looked at leaf litter. Generic average, and individual source species. It looks from the litterature that "leaves are leaves". In one rain forest in Peurto Rico the differences in primary nutrients from maybe 20+ species was all the same +/- 20%. This was a serpentine geology based forrest (similar to what rothschildianum grows on in Borneo), so expectation was that many species would have high levels of nickel sequestered. But in reality only a small % of species where specialists for high nickel.

There may be some specific phytochemicals that are not on the primary nutrient list that may differentiate some species, but the general nutrient status of leaves in general is pretty similar across the species spectrum.


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## Bjorn (Sep 24, 2011)

Cochlopetalum said:


> Okey, I think I'll have to consult my old gardening dictionary from the 1940's.



I have one as well from 1941 I think. If you worry about acidity, then alternatively use beechleaves instead?


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## Cochlopetalum (Sep 24, 2011)

It's just that you usally get the advice to not to use oak leaves in compost, because of the high content of tannins and polyphenols. Which is usually regarded as harmful to other plants. But maybe it works well if you use it as a small part in a mix.


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## Marc (Sep 24, 2011)

An older orchid grower that I know once told me that many years ago a lot of people were growing with oak leaves mixed into their substrate. He told me that back then a lot of people were having issues with snails as the collected oak leaves from the forest floor tended to have snail eggs on them.


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## Bjorn (Oct 11, 2011)

Marc said:


> An older orchid grower that I know once told me that many years ago a lot of people were growing with oak leaves mixed into their substrate. He told me that back then a lot of people were having issues with snails as the collected oak leaves from the forest floor tended to have snail eggs on them.



That may of course happen unless you sterilise. Personally I take twigs and small branches of the trees and thereby avoid that posibility.
The helenaes may vary quite a lot in size as this photograph shows.The one between the other two is indees something like half the size of the two others






While the normals are something like 5cm that one was just approx 3. A very tiny one.. PS the ruler is actually touching the flower.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Oct 11, 2011)

Back when I used to add crushed oak leaves to my bark mix, I'd always bake it in the oven first to sterilize it.


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