# I can't believe it's really happening!



## SlipperFan (Oct 24, 2010)

After two frustrating years of trying to make plans for an attached solarium, we decided late this summer it just wasn't feasible -- too many unresolved problems, and started making plans for a free standing greenhouse. It will be 16' x 26', and will be a Florian glass structure.

So about a month ago, we decided on a site and began removing a tree and sod:






The first thing was to drill under the house and attach pipes from our basement and bring them to the building site. The pipes will have hot and cold softened water, water from the pond for watering the orchids, electricity and natural gas:





Then the digging began last week. The stump had to be removed, and the pipes had to be protected from the excavator:









Once the hole was finished, boards for the footings were put in place and cement was poured:





Then cement blocks were brought in and put in place:





This is what it looks like now. It will be like this for a week to cure. Next week, the knee wall will be built after the hole is filled in. Then the floor will be finished.





I am so excited!!!


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## ehanes7612 (Oct 24, 2010)

congratulations~!!!


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## Pete (Oct 24, 2010)

awesome!


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## fibre (Oct 24, 2010)

WOW! Another greenhouse building thread!
Congrats! It looks really good! So hopeful pics ...


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## SlipperKing (Oct 24, 2010)

Its so exciting Dot! I can't believe you've bit your tongue this long and not spill the beans on this project!!!! Super progress so far!


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## Justin (Oct 24, 2010)

wow, a lot (more) great growing in your future!


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## Shiva (Oct 24, 2010)

Great! We can look for many, many more wonderful orchid pictures in the future.


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## Bob in Albany N.Y. (Oct 24, 2010)

I'm happy for you. You'll love it.


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## papheteer (Oct 24, 2010)

Congratulations, Dot! Your plants are gonna grow even better! If that's even possible!


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## rdlsreno (Oct 24, 2010)

That is awesome! Very exciting.

Ramon


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## Lanmark (Oct 24, 2010)

Super!


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## cliokchi (Oct 24, 2010)

Xciting !!:drool:
keep us posted with your next episode.
what are you planning to grow in your Greenhouse ?
these must be exciting times for you
happy orchid growing from Northern Thailand
cliokchi;


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## paphreek (Oct 24, 2010)

Great looking start, Dot!


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## Ernie (Oct 24, 2010)

Cool! Keep the updates coming!


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## paphioboy (Oct 24, 2010)

Nice house  For the orchids...


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## etex (Oct 25, 2010)

Congrats,Dot!! Great start! I am so happy for you-what an exciting time!!


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## goldenrose (Oct 25, 2010)

:clap::clap: WOW!!! :drool::drool:


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## swamprad (Oct 25, 2010)

wow!


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## eOrchids (Oct 25, 2010)

Looking awesome!

Keep us posted!


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## Darin (Oct 25, 2010)

Congrats Dot!!! Cant wait to see the finished product.


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## Heather (Oct 25, 2010)

WOW! 
Dot that is so awesome! 

We have sort of similar things going on here - though not greenhouse related but someday that may be the issue. Home improvement projects though - fun and challenging! 
Congratulations! Your's is super fun!


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## Kavanaru (Oct 25, 2010)

Cool!! I know how you are feeling now  way to go!!


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## Ernie (Oct 25, 2010)

swamprad said:


> wow!



Hey, you put up a greenhouse didn't you, Mark? You should do a post-hoc thread for yours. oke:


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## Clark (Oct 25, 2010)

Congrats on the ground breaking!
Love the combination of tech and hydraulics in #2.

How many inspections? Thanks.


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## SlipperFan (Oct 25, 2010)

Thanks everyone -- it's nice to be able to share my long-term dream.



SlipperKing said:


> Its so exciting Dot! I can't believe you've bit your tongue this long and not spill the beans on this project!!!! Super progress so far!


I wanted to be sure it was really happening before I posted so I wouldn't jinx the project. 



papheteer said:


> Congratulations, Dot! Your plants are gonna grow even better! If that's even possible!


Actually, I've heard that one has to learn how to grow all over again because greenhouse growing is so different from growing inside a home (and outside during summers). Anybody find this to be true???



cliokchi said:


> Xciting !!:drool:
> keep us posted with your next episode.
> what are you planning to grow in your Greenhouse ?
> these must be exciting times for you
> ...


Thanks -- I will continue to post as the building progresses.
The greenhouse will be home for my 500+ orchids, a few ferns, maybe my growing collection of Hoyas, and all my potting material.



Clark said:


> Congrats on the ground breaking!
> Love the combination of tech and hydraulics in #2.
> 
> How many inspections? Thanks.


I don't know -- the project is in the hands of our contractor. But I suspect there will be inspections of the building, the electrical, the gas and maybe the water. There was someone out before the project started to check to make sure the site would be to code. Since we are within 500 feet of the river, we had to get a special permit that waived the need for an erosion barrier.


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## bigleaf (Oct 25, 2010)

Congrats !


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## Scooby5757 (Oct 26, 2010)

Congrats Dot! I've seen what you can do in a house, so in a greenhouse...:clap:.


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## John M (Oct 26, 2010)

SlipperFan said:


> Actually, I've heard that one has to learn how to grow all over again because greenhouse growing is so different from growing inside a home (and outside during summers). Anybody find this to be true???



Absolutely, Dot! You'll be testing all your knowledge and putting your skills to good use as you observe your plants in their new home and decide on just the right location, watering and feeding schedule.

Are you installing an automatic-start generator? What about heat....do you have plans for a main heater and a back-up heater? Both an auto-start generator and a second heater are worth their weight in gold when it comes to peace of mind you'd enjoy, knowing that you've built in some redundancy on the most critical systems.

Congratulations, Dot! ENJOY and HAVE FUN!:clap:


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## NYEric (Oct 26, 2010)

Congrats! One of the diff things I see in g/h growers is that plants become numerous and dont receive as much individual care. Good Luck.


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## emydura (Oct 26, 2010)

WOW. That is going to be some greenhouse. Can't wait to see the finished product. Is that all your land? The possibilities are endless.

David


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## Lanmark (Oct 26, 2010)

NYEric said:


> Congrats! One of the diff things I see in g/h growers is that plants become numerous and dont receive as much individual care. Good Luck.



Hehehe...she's already giving individual care to over 500 plants! :wink:


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## Kavanaru (Oct 26, 2010)

Lanmark said:


> Hehehe...she's already giving individual care to over 500 plants! :wink:


 :clap:


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## goldenrose (Oct 26, 2010)

SlipperFan said:


> .....Actually, I've heard that one has to learn how to grow all over again because greenhouse growing is so different from growing inside a home (and outside during summers). Anybody find this to be true???


Hmmm ... I think I have to basically disagree with that statement & John. 
Maybe it's the location of my GH, natural shade from the west by deciduous trees? 
and maybe it's been too long for my memory to remember windowsill growing!
I have east, south & west windows, plants got moved indoors to better locations, no different in a GH. 
Outdoor summer growing should be pretty similar.


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## tenman (Oct 26, 2010)

If it's not too late, you should insulate the outside of the foundation before backfilling with styrofoam panels. I did it for mine here in Ohio, and in MI I think it's important to reduce the 'cold sink' effect. My GH is attached and I used triple-wall glazing, insulated the foundation and cover the north wall inside with 'clear' plastic sheeting in the winter. It's 14x 24 and the heating cost has only added about $25 to my monthly gas budget .So, that means I'm only spending $300 to heat it all nine months of winter here in Ohio, set on 55 degree nights, which is far less than I used to spend on the electricuty for growlights! Every little bit you can do to decrease energy comsumption will add up big time in the long run.

As far as growing being different, having just built my GH 3 summers ago, I do think there's a learning curve - and the plants will have an adjustment curve, too. You'll be adjusting light levels and fans and humidity and vents for several years before you think you're satisfied. I expect you may decide to alter your potting mixes/pot types/sizes as well. Some things I found styed much too wet once they had a decent environment, and some things grew so much better they needed different mixes and pots to keep up with their metabolisms.

I'm not so sure having the potting mixes in the GH is a great idea unless they can be hermetically sealed. A friend has had ruined bags of bark and CHC from mold and fungus. 

I do store my plastic pots in the GH, but not the clay. The extra couple hundred clay pots I laboriously washed, bleached, set out to dry in the sun, and then stored underbanch in the GH all had mold or fungus on them the following spring when I went to use them and I had to repeat the process.

But you will find things which have not bloomed, things which have performed poorly, and even things which have done fairly well for you, will take off in a year or two and really surprise you!


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## Ray (Oct 26, 2010)

Dot, since you're going to have gas heat, I VERY strongly suggest you look into a separated-combustion heater, as they have several advantages over conventional ones.

A conventional gas heater uses air from inside the greenhouse for combustion, so the exhaust pumps your humid, heated air out of the greenhouse, necessarily drawing the cold, dry outside air in. Most modern heaters also have "positive ventilation" for the exhaust - a fan that comes on before the heat goes on, and stays on for a while after the flame is extinguished - so that makes it even worse.

A separated combustion heater, on the other hand, draws outside air into the sealed combustion chamber, and exhausts it out again without any impact on the greenhouse atmosphere - including the "positive ventilation". In the case of my heater (I suspect they're all like this), the intake air flue surrounds the exhaust flue, so the intake air is preheated for greater efficiency, and the electronic controller circuitry is also in that sealed chamber, isolated from the moisture of the greenhouse, extending its lifespan.

After switching from a standard Modine (vertical heat exchanger, conventional design) model to the Reznor UDAS (horizontal exchanger - like a Modine Hot Dawg - and separated combustion), my gas consumption dropped 40%, and I stopped struggling to maintain decent humidity.

One might also argue that the separated combustion chamber also provides greater isolation of the plants from the potential of ethylene gas caused by incomplete combustion of the fuel.


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## Yoyo_Jo (Oct 26, 2010)

Oh Dot, that is so exciting - lucky you! :clap: Looking forward to hearing how the transition to your greenhouse goes.


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## SlipperFan (Oct 26, 2010)

emydura said:


> WOW. That is going to be some greenhouse. Can't wait to see the finished product. Is that all your land? The possibilities are endless.
> David


We have about 2 1/3 acres. It's our little piece of paradise!



tenman said:


> If it's not too late, you should insulate the outside of the foundation before backfilling with styrofoam panels. I did it for mine here in Ohio, and in MI I think it's important to reduce the 'cold sink' effect. My GH is attached and I used triple-wall glazing, insulated the foundation and cover the north wall inside with 'clear' plastic sheeting in the winter. It's 14x 24 and the heating cost has only added about $25 to my monthly gas budget .So, that means I'm only spending $300 to heat it all nine months of winter here in Ohio, set on 55 degree nights, which is far less than I used to spend on the electricuty for growlights! Every little bit you can do to decrease energy comsumption will add up big time in the long run.


We are actually going to insulate the inside as well as the outside, plus add insulation to the holes in the cement blocks, including the knee-wall blocks.



tenman said:


> As far as growing being different, having just built my GH 3 summers ago, I do think there's a learning curve - and the plants will have an adjustment curve, too. You'll be adjusting light levels and fans and humidity and vents for several years before you think you're satisfied. I expect you may decide to alter your potting mixes/pot types/sizes as well. Some things I found styed much too wet once they had a decent environment, and some things grew so much better they needed different mixes and pots to keep up with their metabolisms.


I'm expecting to need to watch things carefully.



tenman said:


> I'm not so sure having the potting mixes in the GH is a great idea unless they can be hermetically sealed. A friend has had ruined bags of bark and CHC from mold and fungus.
> 
> I do store my plastic pots in the GH, but not the clay. The extra couple hundred clay pots I laboriously washed, bleached, set out to dry in the sun, and then stored underbanch in the GH all had mold or fungus on them the following spring when I went to use them and I had to repeat the process.


Hmmm, interesting. I hadn't considered that possibility. Thanks for that observation. The garage is only a few steps away, maybe I'll have to store media there.



tenman said:


> But you will find things which have not bloomed, things which have performed poorly, and even things which have done fairly well for you, will take off in a year or two and really surprise you!


I'm certainly hoping so!



Ray said:


> Dot, since you're going to have gas heat, I VERY strongly suggest you look into a separated-combustion heater, as they have several advantages over conventional ones.
> 
> A conventional gas heater uses air from inside the greenhouse for combustion, so the exhaust pumps your humid, heated air out of the greenhouse, necessarily drawing the cold, dry outside air in. Most modern heaters also have "positive ventilation" for the exhaust - a fan that comes on before the heat goes on, and stays on for a while after the flame is extinguished - so that makes it even worse.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Ray. I'm planning to use the Empire heater: http://www.littlegreenhouse.com/accessory/heaters2.shtml
What I don't want is a heater that will blow directly on plants. I've seen too many buds blast and other problems with that type of heater. Isn't that what the Modine does???


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## SlipperFan (Nov 1, 2010)

Phase 2: 
This is what happened today:

Placing insulation. We decided to place two layers of foam on the outside instead of one also on the inside. We thought the greenhouse's interior warmth would penetrate into the blocks, thus keeping the floor warmer. I got this idea from Ramón.






Then the excavator filled in around the foundation:





They used 1" stone in the bottom 2' for drainage:





Our contractor came up with a unique way to drain water from the sink - they created a drainfield under the flooring. The soil in the location is sandy loam, so things should drain very well. Here they are covering up the drainfield with the 1" stone:





Tomorrow will bring a peastone layer, then landscape fabric, then sand. Finally later will come pavers to finish the floor. Tomorrow also, they'll start building the kneewall.


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## Justin (Nov 1, 2010)

that looks like a pro operation, your contractor seems to know what they are doing...awesome.


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## paphreek (Nov 1, 2010)

Looking great!:clap:


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## SlipperFan (Nov 1, 2010)

Justin said:


> that looks like a pro operation, your contractor seems to know what they are doing...awesome.



chuckle. He's never built a greenhouse before, but he's had lots of experience building, and has accumulated excellent people to help him. And we did a lot of research!


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## tenman (Nov 2, 2010)

Hurry! Winter is here!!!!


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## JeanLux (Nov 2, 2010)

Wow Dot that is a solid construction!!!!!

As you are close to a river, are you expecting problems with ground water?

I am very interested to see the next pics of your undertaking! Jean


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## KyushuCalanthe (Nov 2, 2010)

Man, y'all are making me jealous...


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## Clark (Nov 2, 2010)

Nice toys on the job.


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## Ernie (Nov 2, 2010)

Looks awesome, Dot!!! 

He, he... look at those sorry bastards with coats on.


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## NYEric (Nov 2, 2010)

Ouch!


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## SlipperFan (Nov 2, 2010)

JeanLux said:


> As you are close to a river, are you expecting problems with ground water?


No. Although the river goes along the back of our property, our house is quite high, and the soil most of the way is a sandy loam. We've never had water in our basement, I'm happy to say. Flooding went into the pond near the river once since we've lived here, but even a 100 year flood would not come anywhere close to the house.



Ernie said:


> He, he... look at those sorry bastards with coats on.


I'll remember this when the hurricanes hit Florida.:wink:

Today's progress:
Placing the landscape fabric:






Filling with pea stone:





The block man decided to wait until tomorrow to start the kneewall. He thought the freezing temperatures predicted for tonight might be a problem for the mortar.


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## Ernie (Nov 2, 2010)

SlipperFan said:


> I'll remember this when the hurricanes hit Florida.:wink:



Ouch!


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## Ernie (Nov 2, 2010)

SlipperFan said:


> He thought the freezing temperatures predicted for tonight might be a problem for the mortar.



Take that. oke:


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## SlipperFan (Nov 2, 2010)

Ernie said:


> Take that. oke:


:rollhappy: OK -- you win this round.


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## Candace (Nov 2, 2010)

Looking great!


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## cnycharles (Nov 3, 2010)

SlipperFan said:


> :rollhappy: OK -- you win this round.



no need to concede... florida had lots of freezing weather last winter


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## goldenrose (Nov 3, 2010)

:rollhappy: and how long does it take for one's blood to thin as they say, it won't be long when the daytime high is 60 down there & he needs a jacket!


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## SlipperFan (Nov 3, 2010)

goldenrose said:


> :rollhappy: and how long does it take for one's blood to thin as they say, it won't be long when the daytime high is 60 down there & he needs a jacket!



Poor thing!


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## Lanmark (Nov 3, 2010)

Wow! Your construction is coming along nicely! :clap: I'm so happy for you!!!


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## SlipperKing (Nov 3, 2010)

goldenrose said:


> :rollhappy: and how long does it take for one's blood to thin as they say, it won't be long when the daytime high is 60 down there & he needs a jacket!



Heck! I've been that way for many years Rose!


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## NYEric (Nov 4, 2010)

Wussies!


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## Ernie (Nov 4, 2010)

goldenrose said:


> :rollhappy: and how long does it take for one's blood to thin as they say, it won't be long when the daytime high is 60 down there & he needs a jacket!



Yeah, we better start stocking up on hooded sweatshirts!


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## SlipperFan (Nov 5, 2010)

This part took two days -- The blocks are called split-face:





Now it needs to cure. More will be done next Monday:





The bad news -- I found out today that the greenhouse structure won't be finished and shipped to us until the last of Nov/ first of Dec.


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## JeanLux (Nov 6, 2010)

That really bad news, must be very frustrating for you!!! Just hope that there will not be too strong frost! Jean


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## goldenrose (Nov 6, 2010)

Frost? The past 3 nights have been in the 20's for me, I'd be more concerned about snow! I'm sure they'll find something to do til then!


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## SlipperFan (Nov 6, 2010)

goldenrose said:


> Frost? The past 3 nights have been in the 20's for me, I'd be more concerned about snow! I'm sure they'll find something to do til then!


Here too, Rose. The people who will put the greenhouse together say working in snow is no big deal. But it's a two-week delay, and I'm getting anxious!


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## NYEric (Nov 7, 2010)

38F predicted for NYC tonight!


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## SlipperFan (Nov 19, 2010)

Progress is slow, but being made. Since my last post, they've built a cement lip which will hold the floor pavers, filled the cement blocks with insulation, placed the pipes for water, gas and electricity in their respective postions, put in the sand trap for the sink






and drilled the holes for the heater vents:









Next week, the sand will be poured and the interior of the blocks will be sealed.


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## NYEric (Nov 19, 2010)

Where's the house part?


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## SlipperFan (Nov 19, 2010)

NYEric said:


> Where's the house part?



You mean the glass? Coming, supposedly, in about two weeks.


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## etex (Nov 20, 2010)

Thanks Dot for showing the process! Lots of useful information in these greenhouse threads,like yours and Ross's, for growers who are thinking of getting a greenhouse.


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## SlipperFan (Nov 20, 2010)

etex said:


> Thanks Dot for showing the process! Lots of useful information in these greenhouse threads,like yours and Ross's, for growers who are thinking of getting a greenhouse.



Believe me, I studied all the greenhouse threads these past couple of years!


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## NYEric (Nov 20, 2010)

Me too!


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## GuRu (Nov 24, 2010)

Wow Dot, that will become a large greenhouse!!! Plenty of space for Paphs, Paphs and Paphs!!


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## SlipperFan (Nov 24, 2010)

More activity: laying landscape fabric between peastone and sand layers. It was so cold and windy, they had to anchor the fabric or else it blew away!





Sand layer being placed inside -- notice that the inside of the cement blocks have been sealed:





And the pavers for the floor came today:


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## goldenrose (Nov 25, 2010)

:clap: movin' right along! What's the countdown for the arrival of the glass?


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## Lanmark (Nov 25, 2010)

When can I come live in your greenhouse?


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## SlipperFan (Nov 25, 2010)

goldenrose said:


> :clap: movin' right along! What's the countdown for the arrival of the glass?


It is supposed to come next week, but we haven't heard when. My best guess is that it will come late next week and we'll be putting it together the following week.



Lanmark said:


> When can I come live in your greenhouse?


When it's built, you'd better come quick because it will soon after be filled with plants.


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## NYEric (Nov 26, 2010)

Hurry.


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## paphreek (Nov 26, 2010)

NYEric said:


> Hurry.



The foundation work is done. The rest isn't so temperature sensitive.


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## SlipperFan (Dec 9, 2010)

It finally came today! I still can't believe it. Everything worked perfectly: The truck and the loader and our contractor all arrived at the same time, and all were a little early. It took a little over an hour to unload everything. It's all stored beside the knee wall, covered because it's supposed to snow big time this weekend, and waiting to be put together next week.

The truck and the loader, parked in front and ready for action (it was 11º F this morning):





Unloading the first pallet. Altogether, there were 8 pallets plus 32 separate packages:





Last pallet inside a very long truck. More boxes beyond that, though:





Here's the loader taking a load down our drive to where the greenhouse will be constructed -- you can see the knee wall on the left, behind the guy (my very dear husband) directing traffic:





And here is the staging area, with the boxes all about to be covered with a tarp. We are supposed to get anywhere between 2 - 10 inches of snow by Monday, the day the crew is supposed to get here to put it together:


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## Ernie (Dec 9, 2010)

Awesome, Dot!


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## jblanford (Dec 9, 2010)

WOW!! Dot, that's going to be fantastic..... Jim.


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## JeanLux (Dec 10, 2010)

Wow, as Jim wrote !!!! 
Hope that the snow will not sabotage the work next week!!!! I am really very curious to see how it is going to look like! That seem to be rather compact panes of glass/Plexi that will be assembled!? Jean


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## NYEric (Dec 10, 2010)

I hope the weather doesn't cause too many problems.


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## SlipperFan (Dec 10, 2010)

Jean, it's an aluminum and glass structure. The glass will be triple pane every where except the windows that open and the ridge vents, which will be double pane.

We are supposed to have "near blizzard" conditions on Sunday and Monday. When we told this to the guy who is going to assemble the greenhouse that he might want to wait until Tuesday, he said that the weather would not be a problem. He and his crew must be tough hombres!


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## cnycharles (Dec 10, 2010)

SlipperFan said:


> We are supposed to have "near blizzard" conditions on Sunday and Monday. When we told this to the guy who is going to assemble the greenhouse that he might want to wait until Tuesday, he said that the weather would not be a problem. He and his crew must be tough hombres!



either that, or their crew manager is even tougher!


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## Ernie (Dec 10, 2010)

Ya gotta work to get paid! Money is a pretty good muse. 

On my walk to my previous job in Chicago (after a 20 minute bus ride and a 45 minute train ride), I watched the progress of a row house being built from scratch. A bunch of Scandanavian guys worked all winter and did a hell of a job.


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## SlipperFan (Dec 11, 2010)

cnycharles said:


> either that, or their crew manager is even tougher!


The crew leader is the owner of the business. He's the one who will be here Monday morning. I am impressed.

Ernie, really now, don't you miss this cold and snow?


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## Ernie (Dec 11, 2010)

SlipperFan said:


> The crew leader is the owner of the business. He's the one who will be here Monday morning. I am impressed.
> 
> Ernie, really now, don't you miss this cold and snow?



We had frost last week and will be frosty again on Monday am. It's a pain- cover plants, uncover plants, cove plants... The orchids have a nice cozy spot, but the yard plants are cursing us out. The tomatoes finally died back a little, as did the bananas and some of the touchier elephant ears.


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## NYEric (Dec 11, 2010)

Last year Orlando/Kissimee had 2 weeks of freezing weater! Welcome to sunny Fla! oke:


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## John M (Dec 12, 2010)

This is all very impressive, Dot. I hope the weather doesn't hamper the construction. Crossed fingers for you!


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## SlipperFan (Dec 15, 2010)

After a two-day delay because of the awful weather and even more awful roads, the crew is here and began their work today. They think they'll be done by Sunday. If so, then we start work on the inside on Monday.


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## Yoyo_Jo (Dec 15, 2010)

I was wondering how things were going...glad to see the progress despite the weather!


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## NYEric (Dec 15, 2010)

Not too bad a speed bump, good luck.


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## SlipperFan (Dec 16, 2010)

They worked steadily from 8 am to 6:15, stopping only for a short lunch break. They wouldn't even stop to eat a cookie. The first photo was taken about 3:30 pm. The second one was at 5:15 pm, getting dark out. So they set up a stand with lights and continued working until the frame was finished. They said they'll be putting in the glass tomorrow. I am impressed!


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## NYEric (Dec 16, 2010)

Yay!


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## Ernie (Dec 16, 2010)

Gotta love tradesmen with the right attitude! But passing up a cookie break!


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## Clark (Dec 17, 2010)

WOW! 
That is a great looking kit!

How 'bout one of those cookies?


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## Shiva (Dec 17, 2010)

What a great g/h this will be!


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## SlipperFan (Dec 17, 2010)

Much progress today -- they've finished the metal framing and have much of the glass on.

Here they are just starting the glass.





They began at the back, then went to the front.





Then the triple panes on the roof, and on to the sides.





Just a pretty view toward the end of the day.





Oh, yeah -- they accepted cookies and hot chocolate this afternoon.


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## NYEric (Dec 17, 2010)

Cool, acouple more days! WHere are the Pad coolers, blowers, lights, etc?


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## JeanLux (Dec 18, 2010)

Wow, wow, wow that going to be an a3-class gh!!!!! Jean


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## chrismende (Dec 18, 2010)

What a fabulous greenhouse! so exciting!


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## mormodes (Dec 18, 2010)

This has completely changed my mind about manufactured greenhouses. Its gorgeous. (Where's the symbol for 'envy'?)


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## Candace (Dec 18, 2010)

Looking good! I must say, even though I built mine, I wouldn't be able to work with glass-it would scare the heck out of me. They were smart to accept the goodies this time.


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## mormodes (Dec 18, 2010)

Candace said:


> Looking good! I must say, even though I built mine, I wouldn't be able to work with glass-it would scare the heck out of me.



I always thought the same thing until I went to the Florian web page. That triple wall glass will give her an r-10 rating. Not bad. I also always thought a metal structure would transmit cold to the interior, I guess not. I always thought a casually thrown rock, or pine cone dropped from a height would damage the glass, but this glass must be impact resistant or some sort of safety glass. (I didn't read the web page too thoroughly for fear I'd get really envious. LOL!) 

dang, all in all it looks like a really beautiful addition to the yard, too.


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## SlipperFan (Dec 18, 2010)

Some snow today prevented them from putting the final panels in the roof today, but hopefully tomorrow that will happen. Tonight they are working in the garage, putting together the automatic ridge vents, which they'll install tomorrow.

Today, they finished putting in the windows (awning), the fan and the vent:











and the door:





Mormodes, my husband and I travelled from Michigan to the Florian factory in S. Carolina just to see how these were built. My husband, who is not easily impressed, was indeed impressed and convinced that we were making the right decision going with Florian.

This Cincinnati crew who are putting it together are really dedicated workers and craftsmen. They told us they put together several greenhouse manufacturer's products, and Florian is the best. 

And they accepted hot chocolate and cookies twice today.


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## John M (Dec 18, 2010)

Oh God that's gorgeous, Dot!


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## NYEric (Dec 18, 2010)

Soon enough there'll be less plants in the home!


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## cliokchi (Dec 19, 2010)

hi Dot,

how many more days till you being able to put plants in the greenhouse ?
these must be exciting times for you and Christmas is just around the corner !
are you going to test run the greenhouse empty for a few days ? or you trust the techniques to do the work flawless from day one ?
The waiting game must be almost unbearable seeing it so close to finish
good luck and keep us posted about your venture !
cliokchi


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## mormodes (Dec 19, 2010)

SlipperFan said:


> Mormodes, my husband and I travelled from Michigan to the Florian factory in S. Carolina just to see how these were built. My husband, who is not easily impressed, was indeed impressed and convinced that we were making the right decision going with Florian.



Well, its beautiful and you should be proud of yourself.


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## goldenrose (Dec 19, 2010)

WOW!!!


mormodes said:


> ..... That triple wall glass will give her an r-10 rating. Not bad.....
> I always thought a casually thrown rock, or pine cone dropped from a height would damage the glass, but this glass must be impact resistant or some sort of safety glass. (I didn't read the web page too thoroughly for fear I'd get really envious. LOL!)
> dang, all in all it looks like a really beautiful addition to the yard, too.


and I thought glass was a poor choice when it came to insulating.... 
breakage would be a big fear for me & we have members here that have limbs take out panes.
Gorgeous Dot! :clap:


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## Shiva (Dec 19, 2010)

Dot! How will you shade your greenhouse next summer? Just curious.


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## SlipperFan (Dec 19, 2010)

cliokchi said:


> how many more days till you being able to put plants in the greenhouse ?


I would say at least two weeks. Tomorrow, the electrician is supposed to be here as are the guys to install the heaters and the plumbing. That will take this week. I am hoping that the floor will be put in the week before New Years. But that will depend on whether they have all the other work done then, and if the guy who is doing the floor will be free then.



cliokchi said:


> these must be exciting times for you and Christmas is just around the corner !
> are you going to test run the greenhouse empty for a few days ? or you trust the techniques to do the work flawless from day one ?
> The waiting game must be almost unbearable seeing it so close to finish
> good luck and keep us posted about your venture !
> cliokchi


Yes, there will be several days, maybe even a couple of weeks, that the heaters will be going and we'll be testing out the system before plants will move in. I can't put the stands in until the floor is in, and even that will take a day or two.



Shiva said:


> Dot! How will you shade your greenhouse next summer? Just curious.


I'm not sure I'll need it -- I'll have to see about that as well as whether I need more humidity or not. There are tall trees on the East side of the greenhouse, and a fairly big tree, as well as our house, on the West. It will be the mid-day sun that will shine directly in -- not the best of situations, but it's what I have to work with. I have some shade cloth I can throw over, just in case. If I find shade cloth is necessary, I'll work something out for a more permanent (Summer) fix. The glass is tinted and triple pane -- that should help in both seasons.

Here is what they did today:

This is the view I saw at first light this morning. They were working on the ridge vent area -- notice that all the awning windows are installed. I have five on each side, two on the North end and 4 on the South end:





Installing the ridge vents on the East side:





Then the West side:





Usually, they walk on the roof and can install the vents and the glass very quickly. But because it was snowing all day, they had to work from the inside, and went up on the roof only to finish it off -- they used pads so that the snow-slippery glass wouldn't make them fall off. It took them probably a half day longer than they thought it would because of this:





Installing the rod that will open the ridge vents:





And then the motor. The guy on the outside was finishing sealing the roof glass.





They finished caulking (with a special caulk -- actually, they said they used 4 different caulks) about 6:30 tonight. They said this caulk cost $14 a tube -- not the kind you'd get at your local hardware. In fact, they left some for our main contractor because they said he'd have a hard time finding it.

When they finished, they put a heater our general contractor had left here for that purpose, inside the greenhouse so that, hopefully, by morning, the snow inside will be gone and the ground unfrozen so they can do the other installing mentioned above.

Tomorrow, I'll take a photo of the finished product -- but I'll keep posting in this thread until all my plants are moved in.


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## Ron-NY (Dec 19, 2010)

:drool: color me green Dot!
Congrats!!!!


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## John M (Dec 19, 2010)

Dot, can you post a link to the manufacturer's website, please? TIA


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## Yoyo_Jo (Dec 19, 2010)

That's a beautiful GH, Dot!


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## cliokchi (Dec 20, 2010)

hi dot,
you might want to consider to make a contraption that allows you to put the shade cloth 1 0r 2 ft above the maximum height of your aeration vents opening
experience has taught me that it's better to keep shadecloth of the windows/roof because the airflow between the greenhouse roof and the shade cloth gives extra cool insulation and makes sure that there is no transmission heat as would occur as you attach the shade cloth directly to the greenhouse roof.
furthermore the saran/shadecloth also will protect your windows from direct contact with hail
just some ramblings from me 
cliokchi 

I'm not sure I'll need it -- I'll have to see about that as well as whether I need more humidity or not. There are tall trees on the East side of the greenhouse, and a fairly big tree, as well as our house, on the West. It will be the mid-day sun that will shine directly in -- not the best of situations, but it's what I have to work with. I have some shade cloth I can throw over, just in case. If I find shade cloth is necessary, I'll work something out for a more permanent (Summer) fix. The glass is tinted and triple pane -- that should help in both seasons.


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## Clark (Dec 20, 2010)

Makes a great stocking stuffer...

http://www.squeegees.net/


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## mormodes (Dec 20, 2010)

> I'm not sure I'll need it --



Check Ronald A Coleman's 'Orchids' article for how he shaded his gh in Tucson. April 1996 pg 376. 99.999% of it doesn't apply to you!!! but the way he elevated the shade cloth off the gh structure was sensible, visually appealing and might provide inspiration and/or a springboard for your own creativity.


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## SlipperFan (Dec 20, 2010)

John M said:


> Dot, can you post a link to the manufacturer's website, please? TIA


Happy to: http://floriangreenhouse.com/index.html Dave Anderson is the contact person: [email protected]loriangreenhouse.com



cliokchi said:


> hi dot,
> you might want to consider to make a contraption that allows you to put the shade cloth 1 0r 2 ft above the maximum height of your aeration vents opening
> experience has taught me that it's better to keep shadecloth of the windows/roof because the airflow between the greenhouse roof and the shade cloth gives extra cool insulation and makes sure that there is no transmission heat as would occur as you attach the shade cloth directly to the greenhouse roof.
> furthermore the saran/shadecloth also will protect your windows from direct contact with hail
> ...


Good advice -- this is something I have to see about this Summer. The shade cloth I have is a "stop-gap" measure, if needed.



Clark said:


> Makes a great stocking stuffer...
> http://www.squeegees.net/


Great idea! Thanks for the link., Clark.



mormodes said:


> Check Ronald A Coleman's 'Orchids' article for how he shaded his gh in Tucson. April 1996 pg 376. 99.999% of it doesn't apply to you!!! but the way he elevated the shade cloth off the gh structure was sensible, visually appealing and might provide inspiration and/or a springboard for your own creativity.


Thanks -- I'll try to look that up. I wasn't a member of AOS in 1996, and was barely into orchids. But I know some members of our society who would probably have that issue.

Here are photos I took today. As things progress inside, I'll post some of that process.















In the bottom picture, you can see the vents for the heaters. They were put in today, though not hooked up because the ground is still frozen inside. We have a propane heater inside going continually to thaw out the ground so the plumbing, gas and electric can be hooked up. Winter -- ugh!


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## John M (Dec 20, 2010)

Thanks for the link, Dot. That's a fine looking greenhouse!


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## Shiva (Dec 21, 2010)

Very impressive project.


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## paphreek (Dec 21, 2010)

Looking great!


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## chrismende (Dec 26, 2010)

Wow! Such a spiffy and beautifully designed greenhouse! You are going to have soooo much fun!


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## SlipperFan (Dec 31, 2010)

Work continues -- slowly!

Heaters being installed:






And electricity:





Next week, supposedly, the heaters and vents will be hooked up to the thermostats, the sink will be installed, and the floor will be put in. I hope!


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## W. Beetus (Jan 1, 2011)

That is going to be one heck of a greenhouse... :drool:


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## bigleaf (Jan 1, 2011)

Looks great. I love step benches. I used to have them. Now I have rolling benches. While I can squeeze in more orchids - but I do miss the convenience I had before.


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## Rick (Jan 1, 2011)

Awesome!!!!!

How come they still need their jackets on??


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## SlipperFan (Jan 1, 2011)

Rick said:


> Awesome!!!!!
> 
> How come they still need their jackets on??



That day, the wind chill was 5ºF outside. While they were hooking up the heater to the natural gas line, it was 40º inside. Several days later, when the sun was out, our electrician had to turn down the thermostat and open the vent because up at the top, he said it was hot!


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## NYEric (Jan 1, 2011)

This is to be expected. I hope you get the day/night temp diff worked out quickly.


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## SlipperFan (Jan 1, 2011)

Thanks, Eric. Me, too.


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## NYEric (Jan 1, 2011)

If you're not home all day, get a decent Min/max thermometer. I never realized that my house goes into the low 80's daytime in the winter because I was never home!


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## Rick (Jan 2, 2011)

NYEric said:


> If you're not home all day, get a decent Min/max thermometer. I never realized that my house goes into the low 80's daytime in the winter because I was never home!



I'm going to get some of those down loadable data loggers for humidity/temp.

It's hard to beat that -5, even on a sunny day. I was asking as an illustration that down here in TN, with winter day lows rarely below +10, on a sunny day I can get 70's in the GH without supplemental heat.


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## SlipperFan (Jan 2, 2011)

NYEric said:


> If you're not home all day, get a decent Min/max thermometer. I never realized that my house goes into the low 80's daytime in the winter because I was never home!


I have one, and will put it out there as soon as the heaters are hooked up to the thermostats.


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## SlipperFan (Jan 4, 2011)

Talk about slow greenhouses!

Today, the floor crew started.

This is the compacting-the-sand machine:





They began setting the pavers in the corner by the door. Good thing I was there, as they were going to set the pavers level with the ledge instead of using the ledge to set the pavers on!





At the end of the afternoon, they were nearly half finished. They said they'd finish tomorrow. I can hardly wait!!!


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## Candace (Jan 4, 2011)

It looks beautiful!


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## Shiva (Jan 4, 2011)

Great progress Dot. It all looks very professional. I see that you finally bought Empire heaters. With two big ones, that should do the trick for your climate. Next will come the benches and then the plants. Will you put high intensity lamps at the ceiling to light those darks days of fall and winter? Thanks for showing us everything. It's very instructive. :drool:


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## SlipperFan (Jan 4, 2011)

We are putting enough electrical outlets in so that if I decide in the future to add light, I'll be easily able to. For now, I'm just going to have fluorescent lights over my work area and one or two in the growing area in case I need to see there at night.


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## SlipperKing (Jan 4, 2011)

Super!!!


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## Yoyo_Jo (Jan 4, 2011)

Looking good Dot! I keep showing my husband this thread; he is starting to get nervous...:rollhappy:


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## Ernie (Jan 4, 2011)

Giddy for you!!!... 

We can attest that starting a new growing experience is super exciting!


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## NYEric (Jan 4, 2011)

Almost there!


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## paphreek (Jan 5, 2011)

Ernie said:


> Giddy for you!!!...
> 
> We can attest that starting a new growing experience is super exciting!



What Ernie said!


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## W. Beetus (Jan 5, 2011)

It looks great! If only my greenhouse was as nice...


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## SlipperFan (Jan 5, 2011)

Today, they did finish the floor:

Almost done:






Compacting the pavers. This floor is going nowhere!





Here is the finished floor:





Tomorrow: water!


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## Paph_LdyMacBeth (Jan 5, 2011)

oooooooooooo. floors. 
I'm jealous of floors


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## hchan (Jan 5, 2011)

Wow you could eventually have a whole string of interconnected greenhouses! Great thread btw, this is one of the ones that got me hooked on this forum


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## Rick (Jan 5, 2011)

Paph_LdyMacBeth said:


> oooooooooooo. floors.
> I'm jealous of floors





I can relate to that


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## JeanLux (Jan 6, 2011)

:drool: What a great space, that is excellent !!!! :drool: Jean


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## chrismende (Jan 6, 2011)

Whooeeeee!


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## smartie2000 (Jan 6, 2011)

awesome! it is beautiful inside and out


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## Ernie (Jan 6, 2011)

That's one nice floor. Never thought I'd have floor envy.  You have some top notch contractors. 

Turning into an impenetrable fortress. Well, if it won't keep out zombies, it will certainly keep out the weather.


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## NYEric (Jan 6, 2011)

Now that you have all that space do you want to grow out some besseae hybrid flasks/compots for me!?


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## SlipperFan (Jan 6, 2011)

The sink was put in today -- I have water!!!






The sink is mounted on the wall, rather than sitting on legs. That means I have storage space under it, and have better access to the sand trap (to left of sink) to clean it out periodically. The faucet to the right of the sink is for a hose connection. I have found that there is nothing like water under pressure to clean the debris out of used pots before putting them into a bleach bath.






The connection for a hose for watering the orchids is also set up -- it's on the west side of the greenhouse, and is connected to my pond through a heater in the basement. I've been using pond water for about 8 months now, and the orchids seems to be very happy with it. I got that idea from Walt Fliznik, of Greenacres Orchids. 

Tomorrow, I think the electric hook-ups will be finished. If things go according to plan, we should be able to start bringing stands in.

Yet to do: Fans are on order. I thought I had the day/night temperature situation resolved, but things are never as simple, or as cheap, as first envisioned. So I am still working on that. Until I get a suitable thermostat, I will be turning the heaters up and down by hand. Also, we have yet to hang the rods for hanging plants.


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## mormodes (Jan 6, 2011)

SlipperFan said:


> Until I get a suitable thermostat, I will be turning the heaters up and down by hand.



One of the things I do when I manually use the heater is turn on the lights. That way when I have a visual reminder as the sun sets. (lights on = heater on) In your case your lights aren't installed, but you should have a lamp you can use in the meantime. Its saved me many times.


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## SlipperFan (Jan 6, 2011)

mormodes said:


> One of the things I do when I manually use the heater is turn on the lights. That way when I have a visual reminder as the sun sets. (lights on = heater on) In your case your lights aren't installed, but you should have a lamp you can use in the meantime. Its saved me many times.


Interesting idea. Here, though, the heater has to be on all the time, not just at night. It's about 25ºF (-3.9ºC) here during the day now. At this point, I don't intend to have supplemental lights. That may change -- the GH will have ample outlets if I change my mind.


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## paphreek (Jan 6, 2011)

Things are really looking great, Dot! Up until now, there hasn't been an extreme environment programmable thermostat. An electrician told me he heard one was coming on the market, but I haven't found it, yet.


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## Rick (Jan 6, 2011)

paphreek said:


> Things are really looking great, Dot! Up until now, there hasn't been an extreme environment programmable thermostat. An electrician told me he heard one was coming on the market, but I haven't found it, yet.



See if you can find something in the Worms Way catalog.


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## paphreek (Jan 6, 2011)

Rick said:


> See if you can find something in the Worms Way catalog.



For me with the in floor heat, it's much more efficient to run it at a constant temp and let the sun warm things for the daily temperature change, so I probably don't need it, now.


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## cnycharles (Jan 7, 2011)

sweet! I thought it was a bit ironic seeing the chair in the corner of the greenhouse... with this much space, when it gets filled, you won't have time to sit down! 

what is an extreme environment programmable thermostat? if you want to adjust temps for day and night and a mounted thermostat won't work for your needs, then you could get a sensor that works with a computer system and work your heating and vents from the computer. I think there are standalone type systems if you don't want to use a pc type computer. then you could have everything adjust with the daylength. it would still pay to have a hardwired standard thermostat that would be set to your absolute minimum temp, as a backup to fire up the heaters if the programmable things didn't work. a digital one like in the home may work fine most of the time, but at some point the electronics or such might go bad, so it would seem to be a good idea to have that backup that was mechanical and very tough, to cover in emergency times if the digital one failed. .. and they are made for tough environments/middle of working greenhouse. we have one backup in every separate greenhouse at work as backup if the sensor or wiring fails for the heating for that greenhouse (or the computer dies for some reason); lightning strikes are good at messing up electronics


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## SlipperFan (Jan 7, 2011)

cnycharles said:


> sweet! I thought it was a bit ironic seeing the chair in the corner of the greenhouse... with this much space, when it gets filled, you won't have time to sit down!


Thanks for noticing that chair. I put it there for several reasons, but foremost to honor my sister. It's her chair, and she would be so pleased for me and I miss her so much -- she died last June, very unexpectedly. I think she would have liked to sit there. 

I expect to use it occasionally, also.

I've found several day/night thermostats. One is about $500 and is digital. While very nice, the cost of this and the installation cost would break the bank. I've found others that are more mechanical, and that have a solar sensor and a wired remote proble. The problem with them seems to be that they are either in-line or would have a problem with a humid environment. One solution suggested, that I have to consult with my electrician about, is to put it into a humidity-safe box, like the do outlets, and wire it accordingly. Maybe I will be able to resolve this tomorrow -- the electrician couldn't come today but is planning on coming tomorrow (Saturday!) to complete his work.

We did put in the stands today.


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## John M (Jan 7, 2011)

Dot, I love, love, love, love, love, love your greenhouse floor!!!!!!!! My greenhouse floor is earth and it's muddy! Yuck! I've put down lots of limestone screenings in the aisles; but, eventually, the mud oozes up through the tiny stones and the aisle gets disgusting again. A nice floor is the single biggest thing I'd like to change about my greenhouse. I must wear boots in there. I even keep spare pairs of rubber boots handy for guests if they arrive soon after watering. It's a pain and it looks horrible.


Until now, I was unaware of all the various options one has to consider when deciding how to manage the automatic operation of greenhouse heaters. In my case, I have two heaters. Each one is 175,000 BTU's and is enough to handle the heating for the greenhouse on it's own. One is a back-up to the other. Each heater has two simple, rugged thermostats situated on a pannel just above the bench in the middle of the greenhouse. One is set for the day temp I want and the other is set for the night temp that I want. Both run off a heavy duty, mechanical timer that is wired in-line on the North wall next to the electrical pannel. I set the time for day temps and night temps that I wanted by sliding a pointer and tightening a screw. Since I set them 19 years ago, I've never wanted to change them. When the timer flips to "on" (about 8:30 p.m.), the nighttime thermostat is the one controlling the heater. When the timer flips to "off" (about 7 a.m.), the daytime thermostat becomes the one controlling the heater. It's a system that has worked beautifully for me for over 19 years. Want pictures?

BTW: I think I prefer the basic, old fashioned mechanical thermostats and timers. Electronic, digital stuff can be fried by a utility power surge or even a single lightning strike. Because they are wired in and not something that you can "unplug", like a microwave or TV, there is always a chance that a rogue power surge could shut down everything until you get an electician in there to replace the electronics. By then, your plants are either fried by the heat or frozen by the cold. Of course, these disasters happen only during the coldest and hotest times of year, on Sundays! Over the years, I've had to replace a computer modem, a microwave, a VCR and an answering machine because of lightning strikes on the power grid; but, never any components in my greenhouse......except the electronic, vairable speed, circulator fan control. Of course, I learned my lesson and put the household electronics on surge protectors; but, the greenhouse stuff is direct wired. So, I'm glad that it's all the old fashioned, basic, mechanical type of controls that are not effected by surges.


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## SlipperFan (Jan 7, 2011)

Thanks John -- yes, pictures!

This is one of the options my electrician and I actually talked about. What has dissuaded me from this was my original idea that one heater be the main one and the other be the back up if the first one failed. If I understand this correctly, both heaters are used -- one for day, the other for night. But I may have to re-think my original idea, depending on what we decide about the day/night thermostat possibilities.

About the floor: I spent a long time considering options. The in-floor heating, the totally cement floor, among others. I decided on this because I want the floor to drain well, yet hold water to put back into the greenhouse as humidity. And since I don't have traditional benches, a peastone or other kind of crushed stone wouldn't work because those would be too unstable for stands.


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## Rick (Jan 7, 2011)

paphreek said:


> For me with the in floor heat, it's much more efficient to run it at a constant temp and let the sun warm things for the daily temperature change, so I probably don't need it, now.



That's pretty much how I run my GH. Just one low temp setting for nights, and let it warm up during the day on its own.

I just put a data logger in yesterday, and it showed the standard night low around 60 (where the thermos is set), but even with poor sun today, it got up to 75 (todays outdoor max was around 40).

However if I'm around on those really cold cloudy days, I'll bump up the thermostats manually.


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## Rick (Jan 7, 2011)

SlipperFan said:


> Thanks John -- yes, pictures!
> 
> 
> About the floor: I spent a long time considering options. The in-floor heating, the totally cement floor, among others. I decided on this because I want the floor to drain well, yet hold water to put back into the greenhouse as humidity. And since I don't have traditional benches, a peastone or other kind of crushed stone wouldn't work because those would be too unstable for stands.



Whether you have a solid slab or block floor, they tend to act like a thermal mass (much better than dirt/gravel) and give you more temp stability.


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## cnycharles (Jan 7, 2011)

if the second heater is for backup, it could have it's own hard thermostat and be separate of the the first heater/thermostat. in either case, if the day heater can't keep up then the backup one with it's own thermostat can turn on to supplement or replace the first one. maybe this is already what you have planned. I'm glad that you will have a nice place to remember your sister


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## SlipperFan (Jan 7, 2011)

Rick said:


> See if you can find something in the Worms Way catalog.


Thanks for the link, Rick. I'd never heard of them -- they have a couple possibilities I've printed off to show my electrician.



paphreek said:


> For me with the in floor heat, it's much more efficient to run it at a constant temp and let the sun warm things for the daily temperature change, so I probably don't need it, now.


Sun? You have sun? 


Rick said:


> That's pretty much how I run my GH. Just one low temp setting for nights, and let it warm up during the day on its own.
> 
> I just put a data logger in yesterday, and it showed the standard night low around 60 (where the thermos is set), but even with poor sun today, it got up to 75 (todays outdoor max was around 40).
> 
> However if I'm around on those really cold cloudy days, I'll bump up the thermostats manually.


40º? Today's high was 21º.


cnycharles said:


> if the second heater is for backup, it could have it's own hard thermostat and be separate of the the first heater/thermostat. in either case, if the day heater can't keep up then the backup one with it's own thermostat can turn on to supplement or replace the first one. maybe this is already what you have planned. I'm glad that you will have a nice place to remember your sister


Yes, that is exactly how I had it set up. My mistake was that I thought I had the right kind of thermostats. I didn't realize my error until they were hooked up.


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## John M (Jan 7, 2011)

SlipperFan said:


> Thanks John -- yes, pictures! *Okay. I'll try to get them for you tomorrow.*
> 
> This is one of the options my electrician and I actually talked about. What has dissuaded me from this was my original idea that one heater be the main one and the other be the back up if the first one failed. If I understand this correctly, both heaters are used -- one for day, the other for night. But I may have to re-think my original idea, depending on what we decide about the day/night thermostat possibilities. *Having one as a back-up to the main one is only going to work if each of them have their own thermostats. I have 2 heaters and 4 thermostats. Each heater has a day thermostat and a night thermostat. A single timer switches both heaters from their respective day thermostats to their respecitve nighttime thermostats and back again. I also have two fuels. The main heater runs on Natural Gas, which is a cheaper fuel. My back-up heater runs on Propane. This way, if some idiot digs up the gas line down the road and my NG heater can't run, my back-up heater is unaffected and will come on and save the day. I set the NG heater's temp 10*F higher than I set my Propane heater's temp. Right now, the NG heater is normally set at 80*F (day) and 65*F (night). The Propane is therefore set at 70*F (day) and 55*F (night). My smaller exhaust fan, right up in the peak of the greenhouse, comes on when the winter sun pushes the heat up to 85*F and at the same time, motorized louvres at the other end open up to feed fresh air in. Plus, my greenhouse alarm rings in the house if the temp gets down to 50*F, or up to 90*F. So, it's all automatic. If something happened to my NG heater, the temp in the greenhouse would fall 10* more than normal and upon reaching the cooler setting of the propane heater, the propane heater will automatically kick in. *


..


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## Rick (Jan 8, 2011)

Lots of great redundancy in your system John.

I use electrics as primary heat (with their own built in thermostats) and a propane heater to cover the bottom end (with its own built in thermo). 

The propane heater is a blue flame, ventless that requires no electricity. So in the event of those (fairly frequent) electric outages we have, the propane heater is big enough to run the whole thing.

Dot today is about 30 and very cloudy, so I will probably waste more propane today, and bump up the thermostat on the propane heater for the middle of the day. Otherwise the GH would probably stay in the 60's all day. Yes, I'm totally spoiled living south of the Fall Line.


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## NYEric (Jan 8, 2011)

Yay! Finally an advantage to the apartment-greenhouse!


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## Rick (Jan 8, 2011)

NYEric said:


> Yay! Finally an advantage to the apartment-greenhouse!



Only one electric bill!!

I've always thought it would be cool to have a huge gh that was also the main living quarters.

You can poop in your own private jungle


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## NYEric (Jan 8, 2011)

No plants in bathroom! BTW, electric is included in the maintenance so if I wanted to run 10 HPS 500 watt lights same cost!


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## Rick (Jan 8, 2011)

NYEric said:


> No plants in bathroom! BTW, electric is included in the maintenance so if I wanted to run 10 HPS 500 watt lights same cost!




:clap::clap::clap:


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## Heather (Jan 8, 2011)

DOT! It's looking FABULOUS! 

I'm jealous, and by no means do I need a greenhouse! Really sweet - you're one lucky lady!


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## John M (Jan 8, 2011)

Rick said:


> Lots of great redundancy in your system John.



Well, yes....that was the point; but, there's always room for me to screw up something! I've also got a back-up, automatic-start generator with a transfer switch and a manual-start generator as a back-up to the back-up! The reason why I suffered the freeze (almost 3 years ago), was because the propane heater needed some maintenance and I didn't finish before it got dark. So, I left the propane heater (which is my back-up heater), turned off just that one night. But, as bad luck would have it, the pilot light in the Natural Gas heater went out that same night. That was the first time it had gone out in 15 years! So, the propane heater wasn't available to come on and the temp went down to -1*C, enough to kill most everything, with a few surprising exceptions. Of course, back then, the one thing that I didn't have was a temperature alarm. Now, I've got one of those too. I love having the peace of mind that it gives me.


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## SlipperFan (Jan 9, 2011)

The electrician did finish installing the electrical system yesterday, so today I started loading the plants.

This is the view from the SW corner toward the N. end. You can see this is not a "normal greenhouse with benches on the peripheral. I left a walk way all around the outside with plant stands in the middle, separated by two aisles. After I took this photo, I brought out the rest of my Phrags, so now the foreground benches are full.






Here's the middle tier, almost filled.





And the third tier, pretty empty, but will be filled with Paphs and the other plants that are still in my basement greenhouse.





Tomorrow, I will be able to water with abandon! :clap:


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## tenman (Jan 9, 2011)

Looks great! Given the cold and that your GH is not attached, how are you getting the plants from point A to point B without freezing them?


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## SlipperFan (Jan 9, 2011)

Heather said:


> ... - you're one lucky lady!


Thanks, Heather. I do feel very fortunate, on many levels.



John M said:


> ... Of course, back then, the one thing that I didn't have was a temperature alarm. Now, I've got one of those too. I love having the peace of mind that it gives me.


You do have lots of back-up, John. That is wise. I've not thought of someone messing the flow of natural gas, but we do have a generator that the greenhouse is plugged into in case of power failure. I think I'll keep an electric heater handy.

What kind of temperature alarm do you recommend? My husband thinks we should have one.



tenman said:


> Looks great! Given the cold and that your GH is not attached, how are you getting the plants from point A to point B without freezing them?


It's only a few feet from the garage to the greenhouse door. The plants are in the cold for only a few seconds. I can move fast when necessary!


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## cliokchi (Jan 9, 2011)

hi Dot,
congrats on your official opening your greenhouse for your plants, must be very exciting times for you,
Dot a small suggestion on my side all though it's close to your garage it's better to cover your plants with some plastic, becuz at your temperatures frost can damage in a few seconds !!
have fun moving and stocking your new greenhouse
cliokchi

Quote:
Originally Posted by tenman 
Looks great! Given the cold and that your GH is not attached, how are you getting the plants from point A to point B without freezing them?

It's only a few feet from the garage to the greenhouse door. The plants are in the cold for only a few seconds. I can move fast when necessary.


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## cnycharles (Jan 9, 2011)

lots of room for those trichopilias now! and epidendrums, and vandas... by the way, I have a small flask of vanda tricolor suavis that look like a few might feel at home in that greenhouse!


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## NYEric (Jan 10, 2011)

Wow! THat was quick! GoodLuck.


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## fibre (Jan 10, 2011)

WOW! What a beautyfull greenhouse, Dot!!! I feel happy with you!


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## hchan (Jan 10, 2011)

Whoa that is looking fantastic!! One day...


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## eOrchids (Jan 10, 2011)

We are all happy (and envying) that your greenhouse is finally done!!!


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## SlipperFan (Jan 10, 2011)

cliokchi said:


> ...
> Dot a small suggestion on my side all though it's close to your garage it's better to cover your plants with some plastic, becuz at your temperatures frost can damage in a few seconds !!
> have fun moving and stocking your new greenhouse
> cliokchi


Thanks, cliokchi -- I think orchids are tougher than one might think. They are all moved now, and no cold damage done. I didn't move them when the temp was in the single digits, though -- it was in the high teens and low 20's when I moved them. Their leaves didn't even get cold, and the only damage was that I knocked off the pouch of a slipper when I took it through the door. 



cnycharles said:


> lots of room for those trichopilias now! and epidendrums, and vandas... by the way, I have a small flask of vanda tricolor suavis that look like a few might feel at home in that greenhouse!


Thanks Charles -- I haven't forgotten your offer. Can we talk about this in the Spring when shipping is not so problematic?



eOrchids said:


> We are all happy (and envying) that your greenhouse is finally done!!!


Me too! And I really appreciate all the support and encouragement evidenced in this thread. Thanks, everyone!!!


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## Scooby5757 (Jan 10, 2011)

Almost full...time to start second phase of construction. oke:


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## Rick (Jan 10, 2011)

Holly Cow Dot!

It already looks half full, and already massive amounts of beautiful slipper blooms.:clap::clap::clap:

Did you post a pic of that long petaled Phrag already?


Definitely get a temp alarm.

I have a wireless temp monitor, but its doesn't have alarm function. So I wake up every hour on those extra cold nights to make sure the power is still on.


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## John M (Jan 11, 2011)

Dot, here are the photos of my heater thermostats and timer.

Okay. So they look ugly. They are 19 years old and the housing has rusted and the paint is peeling; but, they work fine. Even so, I've got a bunch of new ones to install when I get a few minutes. The two on the left control the propane heater and the two on the right control the natural gas heater. The two on the top are the day thermostats and the two on the bottom are the night thermostats. The thing in the middle is the fans control. The left dial controls 18" motorized louvres at the south end, in the peak, as well as an 18" exhaust fan at the north end, in the peak. The louvres are situated near the interior circulating fan which blows air down an 18" plastic tube the length of the greenhouse for general air movement as well as to distribute the (cold), air coming in when the louvres are open. Even on a very cold winter day; if the sky is clear and the sun shining, the greenhouse will overheat from the solar energy. So, the louvres open and the small exhaust fan comes on. Hot air is expelled and cool air is brought in and widely dispersed throughout. As the season progresses, the sun becomes too strong for the 18" exhaust fan and 18" louvred vent to keep the temp down. So, the dial on the right is set at a temp just a little above the dial on the left. This right dial controls a large 48" exhaust fan. When I've got that set so that it can come on, I have to manually crank open the back vent at least 12". The whole back vent is 4' high x 24' wide. 







All 4 of the heater thermostats are controlled by this timer. I have set it to trip the night thermostats on at 8:30 p.m. and to trip them back off in the morning at 7:30 a.m. When they are tripped off, the daytime thermostats take over.





BTW: The temperature alarm I use is the one recommended by Ray at First Rays Orchids. Here's a link to his web page about it. YOU MUST GET SOME SORT OF ALARM. Sooner or later, an alarm will save your plants for you! http://www.firstrays.com/alarm.htm The diagram on Ray's site shows a battery and an alarm device in the circuit; but, I don't do that. The module in the house gives off a very loud alarm when the temp in the greenhouse drops or exceeds the temps to which I've set the sensor in the greenhouse. I've set it at 50*F and 90*F. If either of those temps are reached, the alarm in the house goes off and wakes the dead! Plus, (Rick, you should get one of these), I have a power outage alarm. You can buy ones that are made specially for that purpose. They plug in your wall and sit there quietly until the power goes off. When that happens, a loud alarm sounds and you are woken up and able to do whatever you might need to do. The power outage alarm I have right now is actually a power outage night light/flashlight. A loud buzzer alarm from Radio Shack has been screwed to the housing and the wires fed inside and hooked up to the same wires that power the light during a power outage. So, when the power goes out, this flashlight goes on and lights up the room as well as sounds the alarm. I never sleep through a power outage.


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## Ernie (Jan 11, 2011)

Old fashioned, mechanical muscle beats chips and circuits in a greenhouse for sure.


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## tenman (Jan 11, 2011)

John M said:


> Dot, here are the photos of my heater thermostats and timer.
> 
> Okay. So they look ugly. They are 19 years old and the housing has rusted and the paint is peeling; but, they work fine. Even so, I've got a bunch of new ones to install when I get a few minutes. The two on the left control the propane heater and the two on the right control the natural gas heater. The two on the top are the day thermostats and the two on the bottom are the night thermostats. The thing in the middle is the fans control. The left dial controls 18" motorized louvres at the south end, in the peak, as well as an 18" exhaust fan at the north end, in the peak. The louvres are situated near the interior circulating fan which blows air down an 18" plastic tube the length of the greenhouse for general air movement as well as to distribute the (cold), air coming in when the louvres are open. Even on a very cold winter day; if the sky is clear and the sun shining, the greenhouse will overheat from the solar energy. So, the louvres open and the small exhaust fan comes on. Hot air is expelled and cool air is brought in and widely dispersed throughout. As the season progresses, the sun becomes too strong for the 18" exhaust fan and 18" louvred vent to keep the temp down. So, the dial on the right is set at a temp just a little above the dial on the left. This right dial controls a large 48" exhaust fan. When I've got that set so that it can come on, I have to manually crank open the back vent at least 12". The whole back vent is 4' high x 24' wide.
> 
> ...



I can't use an outage alarm here; our power goes out all the time for a second or two to a minute or three; we're on an old substation and all they want to do about it is keep raising our rates without improving service. So, an outage alarm would be going off all the time. I'd never get any sleep. A temperature alarm, on the other hand, is handy, and not affected by the frequent power outages as they don't last long enough to cause the temps to drop much if at all.


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## John M (Jan 11, 2011)

tenman said:


> I can't use an outage alarm here; our power goes out all the time for a second or two to a minute or three; we're on an old substation and all they want to do about it is keep raising our rates without improving service. So, an outage alarm would be going off all the time. I'd never get any sleep. A temperature alarm, on the other hand, is handy, and not affected by the frequent power outages as they don't last long enough to cause the temps to drop much if at all.



I understand your point; but, if you used a UPS (uninterupted power supply), available in computer supply stores, that would feed the alarm power during those short outages and keep the alarm from ringing. However, after a short while (10 or 20 minutes or so?), the back-up power would run out and the alarm would then be activated. This way, you'd only be disturbed if the power outage was lasting long enough to cause your greenhouse trouble. It's worth looking into......


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## SlipperFan (Jan 11, 2011)

Rick said:


> Did you post a pic of that long petaled Phrag already?


I think you mean Phrag. Geralda. I've been so busy moving things I haven't had time to photograph it yet since it opened. I need to create a spot in my greenhouse to use for photography. I have ideas, but I can't act on them until the traffic (contractors)eases, hopefully by this weekend.



John M said:


> Dot, here are the photos of my heater thermostats and timer....
> BTW: The temperature alarm I use is the one recommended by Ray at First Rays Orchids. Here's a link to his web page about it. YOU MUST GET SOME SORT OF ALARM. Sooner or later, an alarm will save your plants for you! http://www.firstrays.com/alarm.htm The diagram on Ray's site shows a battery and an alarm device in the circuit; but, I don't do that. The module in the house gives off a very loud alarm when the temp in the greenhouse drops or exceeds the temps to which I've set the sensor in the greenhouse. I've set it at 50*F and 90*F. If either of those temps are reached, the alarm in the house goes off and wakes the dead! Plus, (Rick, you should get one of these), I have a power outage alarm. You can buy ones that are made specially for that purpose. They plug in your wall and sit there quietly until the power goes off. When that happens, a loud alarm sounds and you are woken up and able to do whatever you might need to do. The power outage alarm I have right now is actually a power outage night light/flashlight. A loud buzzer alarm from Radio Shack has been screwed to the housing and the wires fed inside and hooked up to the same wires that power the light during a power outage. So, when the power goes out, this flashlight goes on and lights up the room as well as sounds the alarm. I never sleep through a power outage.


Thanks, John. His diagram shows a battery that looks like a car battery -- maybe it's just diagrammatic. Do you know how many amps are needed? I think I need to contact Ray.


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## John M (Jan 12, 2011)

SlipperFan said:


> Thanks, John. His diagram shows a battery that looks like a car battery -- maybe it's just diagrammatic. Do you know how many amps are needed? I think I need to contact Ray.



Dot, if you look at the diagram on Ray's website, I have the same Temperature Sensor and the same Powerflash Module that is shown there. In the house, I have the same Universal Module; but, no bell or battery. The Universal Module is all I have in the house. If the temperature in the greenhouse goes too high, or too low, the Temperature Sensor closes a circuit and that tells the Powerflash Module (plugged into an electrical outlet in the greenhouse), to send a signal over the wiring to the Universal Module in the house, which causes it to start screeching with it's own built in alarm. Yes, asking Ray a few questions is a good idea. I have no idea why the diagram shows a separate bell and battery. Both the Modules are powered by the electricity in the power lines and the Universal Module has it's own alarm built right in.


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## SlipperFan (Jan 12, 2011)

I think we came to that conclusion today, John. Also, I don't think I need a battery because we have a back-up generator that will power the electricity should we have an outage. I think my contractor will work something out similar to what you have. Thanks!


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## John M (Jan 13, 2011)

Of course, during a power cut, the alarm won't work because it's powered by the line power. In my case, even when the generator is running the greenhouse, the alarm wouldn't alert me of a temperature problem in the greenhouse because the transfer switch isolates the greenhouse from the power grid before starting up the generator. That's so that the power from the generator doesn't get diverted down the lines and out onto the grid (and the whole neighbourhood). When I use the manual-start generator, I also manually flip off the main breaker in the greenhouse to isolate it from the power grid. Also, the greenhouse must be taken off the main power grid for another reason. It's so that the power from the generator doesn't go down the lines and electrocute some poor utility worker while he's repairing the damaged lines down the road. So, during a power cut, I don't have an alarm when there's no power at all; or, even while I do have the greenhouse being powered by the generator because when that's happening, the greenhouse is isolated from the rest of the power grid, which means the sensor in the greenhouse is temporarily incommunicado and cannot alert the house alarm device to make some noise. However, during a power cut, I'm alert and paying attention and I check the greenhouse frequently. If I'm awake, of course, I'll know instantly if there's a power cut and if I'm asleep, my power outage alarm will wake me. 

Plus, to help monitor the greenhouse, I also have a 25 watt green lightbulb in the greenhouse that stays lit 24/7, all year. Even though the greenhouse is over 200' from the house, when I look outside in the middle of the night (on a regular, uneventful night; or, during a power cut and the generator is on), I can see the faint green glow of the light. So, that way, I can monitor that the greenhouse has power without having to leave the house. I can also see the front of the greenhouse; so, in the summer during the daytime (when I can't see the green light, even though it's still on), I can see the exhaust fans working, which tells me that the greenhouse has power and the thermostats are functioning and keeping the greenhouse ventilated. In the winter, during the daytime, I can see the water vapour exhaust billowing from the Natural gas heater chimney. So agian, I can tell from the house that the greenhouse has power and that the heater is functioning.

By paying attention to a number of climate control functions (exhaust fans and chimney exhaust), as well as employing the use of other means (temp alarm and a green light bulb), I can easily monitor the greenhouse status while I remain in the house. BTW: I use a green light bulb because plants are "blind" to green light. A low wattage, green light bulb does not disturb the photoperiodic sensitive plants and delay or prevent their blooming.

One thing that I must do, is investigate immediately if the green light is not evident. There's no point in having it, if when it's not shining, I simply think; "Oh, the bulb's burned out. I'll have to change that tomorrow"! If there's no green glow, I'm out there immediately, no matter what the hour, to check on things. If the problem was simply a burned out bulb, I change it there and then, not the next day when I have more time.

So now, I'm going to repeat myself a bit here; but, it's important. Even if there's a green glow, that does not mean that the greenhouse has heat. It means that there is power in the greenhouse.  A furnace can still go down for some reason other than a power cut. In fact, the night my greenhouse did freeze, I got up in the middle of the night and saw the green glow and felt the peace of mind as I went back to bed in the knowledge that all was well and the greenhouse had power and was warm. Of course, I found out in the a.m. that the heater had broken down and there was no heat, even though there was power. So, it's important to install a temperature alarm.....and for some redundancy, get used to how your greenhouse looks and sounds when all's well in the night, day, cold and heat. Make a point of learning how your greenhouse works and how all the various controls work. Being familiar and having an instinctive understanding of how all the various controls work and interact with each other will one day save you from immense heartache. This way, your own senses will help you catch a problem before it becomes a disaster.


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## NYEric (Jan 13, 2011)

Man, w/ all these hassles who need a g/h!? oke:


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## hchan (Jan 13, 2011)

NYEric said:


> Man, w/ all these hassles who need a g/h!? oke:



Well you sure don't need one Eric, as your apartment is one big grow room! :rollhappy:


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## SlipperFan (Jan 13, 2011)

NYEric said:


> Man, w/ all these hassles who need a g/h!? oke:


Now that all my orchids are out of the house, I'm starting to clean out my former grow areas.

No matter how careful one tries to be with regard to watering, re-potting, etc., a mess is bound to be created. I'm finding mold and water stains on the bottoms of my windows and along the floor where the wall meets it. To say nothing about the dirt that collects under the stands -- no matter how many times you try to sweep. 

I am so glad to have that greenhouse! It is worth the "hassles" -- or problems that need to be solved along the way.


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## cnycharles (Jan 13, 2011)

hchan said:


> Well you sure don't need one Eric, as your apartment is one big grow room! :rollhappy:



I'm surprised that he hasn't installed astroturf on the walls and a misting system for mounted plants! :rollhappy:


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## John M (Jan 13, 2011)

cnycharles said:


> I'm surprised that he hasn't installed astroturf on the walls and a misting system for mounted plants! :rollhappy:



When I grew under 9,000 watts of HID lights in my basement, I covered the walls with 1/2" chicken wire from floor to ceiling and had hundreds of mounted plants! I watered with a regular garden hose. 'You doing that yet, Eric? oke:


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## Justin (Jan 13, 2011)

wow that is just awesome. congrats again!


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## JeanLux (Jan 14, 2011)

SlipperFan said:


> Now that all my orchids are out of the house, I'm starting to clean out my former grow areas.



You are having Lots of free space now in your house  !!! Jean


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## NYEric (Jan 14, 2011)

John M said:


> When I grew under 9,000 watts of HID lights in my basement, I covered the walls with 1/2" chicken wire from floor to ceiling and had hundreds of mounted plants! I watered with a regular garden hose. 'You doing that yet, Eric? oke:



9000 watts, hmmmmmmmm. :evil:
No, even though I have plastic under the trays of flowing water I still use an old 1 qt. watering can!


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## John M (Jan 14, 2011)

NYEric said:


> No, even though I have plastic under the trays of flowing water I still use an old 1 qt. watering can!



OMG! You are dedicated! My basement has rock and mortar walls and a cement floor. I was able to splash everywhere without concern. The mounts and potted plants just drained onto the floor and the water seeped out under the door to a drain in the bottom of the stairwell just outside. Ah, heck! Just get yourself a garden hose and go crazy! Your neighbours below you won't mind, I'm sure!:rollhappy:


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## SlipperFan (Jan 25, 2011)

Fans are hooked up and attached to a variable-speed control, and rods are in place for hanging plants. All my plants are now moved in. All I have to do is finish organizing my work space and photo corner -- and cleaning up all the trays and clearing out the stands from my former growing areas.

Thanks for your interest -- it has been quite an enlightening experience for me!

I love my greenhouse!!!


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## SlipperKing (Jan 25, 2011)

Beautiful finally!!!! It looks like you just watered too. Easy wasn't it?


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## Yoyo_Jo (Jan 25, 2011)

Wonderful!!! Dot, I can't believe you had all those plants in your house! :rollhappy:


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## eOrchids (Jan 25, 2011)

Awesome sight! :clap:


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## Shiva (Jan 25, 2011)

I'm happy for you Dot. The g/h looks fantastic as do the plants inside. And you even got lots of empty space to fill. Well planned and well done. I'm sure there's a lot of envious people out there, me included. :clap::clap::clap:


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## Ernie (Jan 25, 2011)

Awesome!


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## paphreek (Jan 25, 2011)

:clap: :clap: :clap:


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## paphioboy (Jan 25, 2011)

WOW...!! that looks great!  :clap: :clap:


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## hchan (Jan 25, 2011)

Thanks for the update photos, I'd been wondering how things were coming along. It certainly does look awesome! :clap:


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## JeanLux (Jan 26, 2011)

That looks great with a lot of space left to walk and work around, all plants pretty clean :drool: !!!! Bravo and have lots of fun!!!! Jean


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## John M (Jan 26, 2011)

Oh, so nice! And I still LOVE your floor! Wow!


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## NYEric (Jan 26, 2011)

hey!? Is that a Pk hybrid in spike in the top photo? BTW those floors look like a showroom!!!


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## Howzat (Jan 26, 2011)

Hi Dot,
That is an awesome G/H you have there. Do you have double glazed glass for the canopy and side walls??? And what type of heating do you use??? I am very curiuos as no one I know in our mediteranian temperate climate has gone to such a great deal of work to please our beloved orchids.


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## wojtek (Jan 26, 2011)




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## fibre (Jan 26, 2011)

Dot, I love your greenhouse! It is one of the most beautyfull greenhouses I've ever seen! Congrats! Enjoy it! I'm happy with you!


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## Kavanaru (Jan 26, 2011)

wow... gorgeous...


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## Mathias (Jan 26, 2011)

Wow, what an inspiration! Such a lovely greenhouse! :clap::drool::clap:


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## Clark (Jan 26, 2011)

Magazine worthy!
:clap:


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## Bob in Albany N.Y. (Jan 26, 2011)

I can tell you from personal experince, you'll love it. Those empty spaces will be filled in no time. Just beautiful.


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## W. Beetus (Jan 26, 2011)

Awesome greenhouse! And all those plants fit into your house??


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## goldenrose (Jan 26, 2011)

:drool::drool::drool:
ENVIOUS!!!


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## SlipperFan (Jan 26, 2011)

SlipperKing said:


> Beautiful finally!!!! It looks like you just watered too. Easy wasn't it?


Yes -- watering is such a treat now! I can pay attention to watering the plant instead of worrying about spilling water on the floor!



John M said:


> Oh, so nice! And I still LOVE your floor! Wow!


Me too, John! Some people tried to talk us into a solid cement floor, but that's not what I thought would be best. So far, this is working out very well. I water the floor twice a day -- the cement stays wet for quite awhile, but the excess water drains down into the sand and some is released back into the atmosphere. I have humidity, typically between 60 - 80%



NYEric said:


> hey!? Is that a Pk hybrid in spike in the top photo? BTW those floors look like a showroom!!!


No Pk hybrids in spike as yet. But all the Phrags seem to like their new home -- I have several that have come into spike since their move.



Howzat said:


> Hi Dot,
> That is an awesome G/H you have there. Do you have double glazed glass for the canopy and side walls??? And what type of heating do you use??? I am very curiuos as no one I know in our mediteranian temperate climate has gone to such a great deal of work to please our beloved orchids.


Triple pane everywhere except the awning windows and the ridge vent, which are double pane. I have two Empire heaters: One is attached to a day/night thermostat, and the other is back-up. I have it set to come on at a temperature slightly lower than where the primary is set for. Also, during the day on these very cold days, I turn it up to warm the greenhouse faster. You are lucky to be in a Mediterranean climate!



Bob in Albany said:


> I can tell you from personal experince, you'll love it. Those empty spaces will be filled in no time. Just beautiful.


Yeah -- that is what I'm afraid of!!!



Yoyo_Jo said:


> Wonderful!!! Dot, I can't believe you had all those plants in your house! :rollhappy:





W. Beetus said:


> Awesome greenhouse! And all those plants fit into your house??


It was crowded in the house. My husband was very patient with me.


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## Howzat (Feb 1, 2011)

Triple pane everywhere except the awning windows and the ridge vent, which are double pane. I have two Empire heaters: One is attached to a day/night thermostat, and the other is back-up. I have it set to come on at a temperature slightly lower than where the primary is set for. Also, during the day on these very cold days, I turn it up to warm the greenhouse faster. You are lucky to be in a Mediterranean climate!


Dot, what is an Empire heater ??? Is it electric /gas or what???
-Howard


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## goldenrose (Feb 1, 2011)

Howzat said:


> Dot, what is an Empire heater ??? Is it electric /gas or what???
> -Howard


Google them! Direct vent, highly efficient, gas or propane.


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## Lanmark (Feb 1, 2011)

It has turned out to be a spectacularly superb greenhouse! Your careful planning and attention to every specific detail from footing to ridge vent has truly paid off well. I am very happy for you, Dot. :clap: I hope to come see it in person someday when I am feeling better than I am now, bask in the glory of your creation, and ask impertinent questions of you like, "How much did it cost you to build this?" and so forth.  :rollhappy: This is my dream greenhouse. If ever I build my own, I want to copy yours.


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## SlipperFan (Feb 1, 2011)

Howzat said:


> Dot, what is an Empire heater ??? Is it electric /gas or what???
> -Howard


What Rose said. Empire is a brand name. My heaters are hooked to a natural gas line.



Lanmark said:


> It has turned out to be a spectacularly superb greenhouse! Your careful planning and attention to every specific detail from footing to ridge vent has truly paid off well. I am very happy for you, Dot. :clap: I hope to come see it in person someday when I am feeling better than I am now, bask in the glory of your creation, and ask impertinent questions of you like, "How much did it cost you to build this?" and so forth.  :rollhappy: This is my dream greenhouse. If ever I build my own, I want to copy yours.


Thanks, Mark. I hope you are feeling better soon, and I plan to invite you here when I'm finished moving all my stuff and setting things up -- it's a long process! -- and when the weather improves!


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## SlipperFan (Feb 7, 2011)

I finally finished bringing in all my "stuff" and organizing my work space:


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## JeanLux (Feb 8, 2011)

Omg, that looks pretty organized!!!! Wish I could find this space in my gh  !!! Jean


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## Shiva (Feb 8, 2011)

All I can say is Wow! My working space is my kitchen.


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## Marc (Feb 8, 2011)

Nice organised workspace you have there. The collections of pot's you have tells me you prefer transparrant pots. 

I'm thinking about replacing all black and brown pots with transparants ones as I repot them. I have a couple of orchids in them and it's much easier to see how their roots are doing and how wet / dry the medium is.


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## goldenrose (Feb 8, 2011)

Marc said:


> Nice organised workspace you have there. The collections of pot's you have tells me you prefer transparrant pots.
> I'm thinking about replacing all black and brown pots with transparants ones as I repot them. I have a couple of orchids in them and it's much easier to see how their roots are doing and how wet / dry the medium is.


do you have a GH? All of my plants in transparent pots that sit on upper shelves or exposed to direct sun are now double potted. I would caution one, think about it, if the plants roots are in nature exposed to sun, they'd probably do OK, if not you're running the risk of baking the roots IMO, I'm no longer buying new transparent pots.


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## NYEric (Feb 8, 2011)

Where's the stove and the microwave heater?


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## goldenrose (Feb 8, 2011)

NYEric said:


> Where's the stove and the microwave heater?


:rollhappy: or the bed?


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## NYEric (Feb 8, 2011)

That's another Eric!


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## Marc (Feb 8, 2011)

goldenrose said:


> do you have a GH? All of my plants in transparent pots that sit on upper shelves or exposed to direct sun are now double potted. I would caution one, think about it, if the plants roots are in nature exposed to sun, they'd probably do OK, if not you're running the risk of baking the roots IMO, I'm no longer buying new transparent pots.



I'm currently still confined to the windowsills in the house and I don't see a change in the foreseeable future. At least 50% of the plants I currently have are double potted in ceramic overpots so I'm not worried about the sun damaging the roots.


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## SlipperFan (Feb 8, 2011)

JeanLux said:


> Omg, that looks pretty organized!!!! Wish I could find this space in my gh  !!! Jean


It's not as big as it looks -- actually it's 6' wide by 9' long. It has to be organized! when I planned my greenhouse, that was part of the plan, to have this area be work space.


Marc said:


> Nice organised workspace you have there. The collections of pot's you have tells me you prefer transparrant pots.
> 
> I'm thinking about replacing all black and brown pots with transparants ones as I repot them. I have a couple of orchids in them and it's much easier to see how their roots are doing and how wet / dry the medium is.


I began switching to transparent pots about 5 years ago. Now, besides clay pots for certain genera, that is about all I use.


goldenrose said:


> do you have a GH? All of my plants in transparent pots that sit on upper shelves or exposed to direct sun are now double potted. I would caution one, think about it, if the plants roots are in nature exposed to sun, they'd probably do OK, if not you're running the risk of baking the roots IMO, I'm no longer buying new transparent pots.


Interesting observation, Rose. I think there is enough foliage above to keep that from being a problem, but I'll keep watch.


NYEric said:


> Where's the stove and the microwave heater?


A few steps away -- in the house...


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## NYEric (Feb 9, 2011)

SlipperFan said:


> It's not as big as it looks -- actually it's 6' wide by 9' long.


I see, bigger than my kitchen!


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## JeanLux (Feb 9, 2011)

What kind of music do your plants like best, or is there no preference ?  ? Jean


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## Marc (Feb 9, 2011)

I see only one downside to having such a nice work space inside the greenhouse. It takes away growing area.


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## Orchidnut57 (Feb 9, 2011)

Shiva I feel your pain! My kitchen IS my work space!


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## Bob in Albany N.Y. (Feb 9, 2011)

When I built my green house, I put in a large sink in the corner. Well, it wasn't long before, I took it out and replaced it with a growing area. Green houses are never big enough, even if you build them twice as big as you think. My wife thought I was nuts when I built mine.


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## NYEric (Feb 9, 2011)

Bob in Albany said:


> My wife thought I was nuts when I built mine.


Er, Bob you may have left off the, "but she was wrong!", part here. :rollhappy:


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## SlipperFan (Feb 9, 2011)

JeanLux said:


> What kind of music do your plants like best, or is there no preference ?  ? Jean


oke:For some reason, they seem to like what I like: Classical, Baroque, Rock & Roll, Ragtime, Boogie-Woogie... 



Marc said:


> I see only one downside to having such a nice work space inside the greenhouse. It takes away growing area.


That's true. But I can't stand the thought of having to take plants out of the greenhouse & back into my basement to repot them.

I know my collection will grow -- I'm truly addicted. But there will soon come a time when I reach my personal capacity for caring for them with any kind of quality. This greenhouse certainly helps!


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## emydura (Feb 10, 2011)

WOW Dot. What a setup. Most of us can only dream of a glasshouse like that.

David


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## goldenrose (Feb 10, 2011)

Bob in Albany said:


> When I built my green house, I put in a large sink in the corner. Well, it wasn't long before, I took it out and replaced it with a growing area. Green houses are never big enough, even if you build them twice as big as you think. My wife thought I was nuts when I built mine.





Marc said:


> I see only one downside to having such a nice work space inside the greenhouse. It takes away growing area.





SlipperFan said:


> ..... That's true. But I can't stand the thought of having to take plants out of the greenhouse & back into my basement to repot them....


my GH had a potting tub that was quickly replaced by cedar slats. The potting bench moved outside, considering I do most repotting in spring, no need to be inside!


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## Bob in Albany N.Y. (Feb 10, 2011)

Rose, We have so much cold weather here in the north east that I'm forced to repot inside. Most of it is done in the winter. I still have my potting bench in there, however I did decide that I had to much room behind me when I was working at it, so I put up another bench. We are all crazy, and I know it.


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## SlipperFan (Feb 10, 2011)

Bob in Albany said:


> ... We are all crazy, and I know it.


That really says it all, doesn't it!


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## W. Beetus (Feb 10, 2011)

Hmmm. Envy may just be an understatement... That is an AWESOME greenhouse.


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## Orchidnut57 (Feb 10, 2011)

If one believes in a Heaven...then that is the kind of GHs we hope to be rewarded with!


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## Heather (Feb 10, 2011)

FANTASTIC! 
Really a gorgeous job all around Dot. Though, I have to say, your plants looks as though they have certainly been happy up until this point as well! Thanks so much for keeping us all a part of the process!


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## etex (Feb 11, 2011)

Gorgeous greenhouse Dot!! Congrats! Good to see your dream become a reality.


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## SlipperFan (Feb 12, 2011)

Last photo -- of my photo corner. The black is black velvet. The object on the left is a diffusion screen for when there is sun. It also serves to block the wind from the fans -- somewhat. Air has a way of moving around things!


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## NYEric (Feb 12, 2011)

Looks just like my set up!


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## bigleaf (Feb 13, 2011)

wow.... great job. I have a lot to learn from your setup.


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## chrismende (Feb 17, 2011)

Excellent workspace, Dot! Mine is much simpler so far. Just a bare potting bench. No sink. I'll rinse in buckets.


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## Marc (Feb 18, 2011)

Nice photography corner you have setup. I take my pictures in more or less the same way. Only my setup lacks the sophistication of yours. I need to help myself with chairs etc. to hang a few black towels.

Will buy velvet as a background asap, and this week my manfrotto tripod + ballhead arrived in the mail


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## Shiva (Feb 18, 2011)

Do you have any lights to supplement on very dark days? Or do you have dark days at all with such a beautiful collection?


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## SlipperFan (Feb 18, 2011)

Shiva said:


> Do you have any lights to supplement on very dark days? Or do you have dark days at all with such a beautiful collection?


I have lights over my work area which I could turn on. But with a tripod, it's usually just a matter of longer exposure times.


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## biothanasis (Feb 19, 2011)

Amazing result and space for your plants!!! Great work, Dot..!!!Congrats! :clap:


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## chrismende (Mar 19, 2011)

So, Dot, it's been a month since your last post about your new greenhouse. I know it's the dead of winter there, but how is it going?


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## Yoyo_Jo (Mar 19, 2011)

chrismende said:


> ... I know it's the dead of winter there, but how is it going?



oke: Spring is on Monday!!! Well, in some parts of the world, anyway.


Yes, Dot, how's it going?


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## SlipperFan (Mar 20, 2011)

Thanks, guys -- it's going very well. I still have to pinch myself to know this hasn't been just a dream.

I wet the floor twice a day, except on watering days, so the humidity stays between 70 and 80%. Watering is such a pleasure now. I can water with abandon, and the plants seem to be responding well.

Depending on where in the greenhouse, the temp is 55 - 58º F at night and about 70 (where I have it set) during the day. On days when the sun is out fully and the temperature has been in the 50s, it's gotten to 78 in the greenhouse. 

I'm not sure yet, but I don't think I'll need shade cloth. There are big trees to the east and west of the greenhouse, and the triple-pane glass is coated, so although there is a lot of sun coming in (on sunny days), it doesn't seem to be harmful.

I'm learning the different "micro climates" in the greenhouse, and have moved plants around accordingly. Places I thought would be cooler turned out to be warmer, and the area I thought would be warmest extends a little further than I expected.

It is really a great place to be, and I would encourage anyone who is thinking about building a greenhouse to take the plunge! It is worth it.


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## chrismende (Mar 23, 2011)

Ah, yes! Building one or renting one! Just being IN one is wonderful! Yours must be about as wonderful as a greenhouse can be, though, since you've collected such fine plants for years and now have the choice to house them in a more ideal climate. Fabulous! Do post some photos of how you have things arranged and re-arranged during the coming months!


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## chrismende (Mar 23, 2011)

I'm about to build my own photo corner in the greenhouse I'm renting, and I'll pattern it on yours. Still have to buy that black velvet that's so essential!


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## SlipperFan (Mar 25, 2011)

Ok -- here's an update from the SW corner (p.21 of this thread) -- lots of spiking, yay!:


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## Shiva (Mar 25, 2011)

Ohhhhh!. I'm going to faint... :smitten:


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## W. Beetus (Mar 25, 2011)

Spectacular greenhouse! The red Phrag is very nice too. What is it?


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## Shiva (Mar 25, 2011)

Hey! What the heck? Why am I lying on my back on the floor...? Er! beam me up Snotty!


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## Yoyo_Jo (Mar 25, 2011)

Holy cow, you filled it up in no time! :clap: Looks like a marvelous place to hang out.


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## John M (Mar 26, 2011)

Looks wonderful!


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## NYEric (Mar 26, 2011)

W. Beetus said:


> Spectacular greenhouse! The red Phrag is very nice too. What is it?




Phrag Waunakee Sunset/Fox Valley Fireball. 
Looking good. Bright there!


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## Mathias (Mar 26, 2011)

What an awesome sight!! :drool::clap:


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## JeanLux (Mar 26, 2011)

Om.,Om., that looks really great!!!! Jean


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## Evergreen (Mar 26, 2011)

Orchid heaven ! Thanks for sharing :clap:


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## mormodes (Mar 26, 2011)

Yoyo_Jo said:


> Holy cow, you filled it up in no time!


No no, She's got one empty basket in the upper left hand corner... for luck? *G*


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## Marc (Mar 26, 2011)

I want one too 

Looks very nice


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## eOrchids (Mar 26, 2011)

:drool: :smitten: :drool:


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## Justin (Mar 26, 2011)

wow wow wow! fantastic.


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## SlipperFan (Mar 26, 2011)

W. Beetus said:


> Spectacular greenhouse! The red Phrag is very nice too. What is it?


It's Waunakee Sunset (http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19280&highlight=Waunakee+Sunset). Fox Valley Fireball dropped it's flower, but it's next red bud is close by.



mormodes said:


> No no, She's got one empty basket in the upper left hand corner... for luck? *G*


It's waiting for something to fill it. Actually, I have some hanging space left, and some shelf space. But I have lots of seedlings that need to be taken out of compot, and a couple orchid shows coming up. I have to learn to restrain myself, but I fear it is too late. :wink::wink:


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## Hera (Mar 27, 2011)

It looks like heaven in there. ITs so well organized and so much in bloom.


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## koshki (Mar 27, 2011)

Wow, it's ovewhelming! It must feel so great to just be in there!


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## eOrchids (Jun 6, 2011)

Hey Dot! Just curious, what does your greenhouse look like now? Post a pic if you could. Thanks!


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## SlipperFan (Jun 6, 2011)

eOrchids said:


> Hey Dot! Just curious, what does your greenhouse look like now? Post a pic if you could. Thanks!



Thanks! I'll take some photos tomorrow.


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## paphreek (Jun 6, 2011)

Please do. It'll be great to see it, again!


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## Yoyo_Jo (Jun 7, 2011)

Oh yes, photo updates welcomed for sure. Living vicariously, you know....


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## KyushuCalanthe (Jun 7, 2011)

Haven't popped into this thread in months. Lovely greenhouse Dot, you must be thrilled.


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## SlipperFan (Jun 7, 2011)

It's true, Tom! A dream come true. It is such a joy to be in there!

Here are a few photos I snapped this morning, plus one taken in May:

This is what you would see walking into the greenhouse: (It's a composite of 3 photos stitched together -- there are a few discrepancies.)






From a few steps to the left:





Same area photographed from the opposite end -- I've placed hooks on the metal between the windows for hanging plants. Right now, that's where most of my Hoyas are:





This is a composite (more discrepancies) taken from the corner diagonally opposite to the door:





This is the Phal bench, looking toward a rather eclectic group of plants:





My photo cornet on the right, by the door, looking toward my "Tolumnia Tree:"





And my Tolumnia Tree, with my reflection in the glass, and Nik's plant hanging above:


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## Shiva (Jun 7, 2011)

I'll use Goldenrose talk:

:drool::drool::drool::clap::clap::smitten: :rollhappy:


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## bigleaf (Jun 7, 2011)

Wow..fantastic.. like an orchid heaven


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## eOrchids (Jun 7, 2011)

That is awwww inspiring!!! :smitten: :clap: :drool:


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## hchan (Jun 7, 2011)

Wow that looks so fantastic! Looks pretty full already though, do you you still have space to plant out your compots?


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## Marc (Jun 7, 2011)

This looks very impressive!!!!!

I want one too!


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## Heather (Jun 7, 2011)

Filled up fast!


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## Evergreen (Jun 7, 2011)

Wow! Awesome GH ! :clap: :drool:


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## SlipperFan (Jun 7, 2011)

hchan said:


> Wow that looks so fantastic! Looks pretty full already though, do you you still have space to plant out your compots?



Well, let's put is this way: I'll have lots of plants for the Slippertalk auction next year!


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## emydura (Jun 7, 2011)

Amazing setup Dot. I'm pretty jealous.

David


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## NYEric (Jun 7, 2011)

Tolumnia tree! 
I'm envious! How is it doing against the heat?


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## mormodes (Jun 7, 2011)

wow.......... no algae...... [sigh.] 

Heaven!


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## SlipperFan (Jun 7, 2011)

NYEric said:


> Tolumnia tree!
> I'm envious! How is it doing against the heat?


The tree or the greenhouse?



mormodes said:


> wow.......... no algae...... [sigh.]
> 
> Heaven!


Periodically, I spray the walls and floor where there is green starting with the bleach solution I use for cleaning my pots. So far, so good!


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## Candace (Jun 7, 2011)

What a paradise!


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## Yoyo_Jo (Jun 7, 2011)

Looks heavenly. Also looks kinda fuller than the last time you posted photos of it...


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## JeanLux (Jun 8, 2011)

Wow, lots of great looking plants in there, and yet a lot of free space left!!!! Isn't that a large Ansellia near the Tolumnia tree, and have you ever posted pics of the blooms? Jean


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## SlipperFan (Jun 8, 2011)

Yoyo_Jo said:


> Looks heavenly. Also looks kinda fuller than the last time you posted photos of it...


No kidding!



JeanLux said:


> Wow, lots of great looking plants in there, and yet a lot of free space left!!!! Isn't that a large Ansellia near the Tolumnia tree, and have you ever posted pics of the blooms? Jean


I don't have an Ansellia. Phrags are on the bench next to the tree. Which photo are you looking at?


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## NYEric (Jun 8, 2011)

SlipperFan said:


> The tree or the greenhouse?


I meant the g/h. That's a lot of glass area to build up the heat in!!


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## wojtek (Jun 8, 2011)

Take me to your paradise, please !


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## JeanLux (Jun 8, 2011)

SlipperFan said:


> ....I don't have an Ansellia. Phrags are on the bench next to the tree. Which photo are you looking at?



First pic, on the right side foreground, and then just behind the tripod, on that small pedestal!?

Jean


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## Mathias (Jun 8, 2011)

What an awesome place! :clap::drool:


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## goldenrose (Jun 8, 2011)

JeanLux said:


> ... Isn't that a large Ansellia near the Tolumnia tree, and have you ever posted pics of the blooms? Jean





JeanLux said:


> First pic, on the right side foreground, and then just behind the tripod, on that small pedestal!?Jean


Your right Jean that does look like ansellia, quite a bit taller than the ones I have! 
Dot - rather than call it a small pedestal - the wire milk crate!
That's one heck of a GH! Now that we've hit mid 90's, how's the shady & ventilation doing?


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## Ernie (Jun 8, 2011)

wojtek said:


> Take me to your paradise, please !



Hey! Dot is _my_ orchid crush!


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## SlipperFan (Jun 8, 2011)

goldenrose said:


> Your right Jean that does look like ansellia, quite a bit taller than the ones I have!
> Dot - rather than call it a small pedestal - the wire milk crate!
> That's one heck of a GH! Now that we've hit mid 90's, how's the shady & ventilation doing?





NYEric said:


> I meant the g/h. That's a lot of glass area to build up the heat in!!


It is a lot of glass. It's been really hot here the past couple days -- mid 90's. The highest the greenhouse has gotten is 94ºF. With all the air movement and ventillation, it really doesn't feel that bad, probably because the temp. doesn't stay there very long. I should post a photo of the environment: there are tall trees to the East, so the sun doesn't hit the glass until about noon. Then about 4, the tree on the West side starts to give shade to the greenhouse. In the winter, of course, the trees drop their leaves so when we have sun, it does good things for the plants.



JeanLux said:


> First pic, on the right side foreground, and then just behind the tripod, on that small pedestal!?
> 
> Jean


Next to the heater? That's my Dendrobium spectabile. Huge plant!


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## SlipperFan (Jun 8, 2011)

Ernie said:


> Hey! Dot is _my_ orchid crush!



Aw, Ernie! How'd you know I had a secret crush on Steve Jobs?!


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## Gilda (Jun 9, 2011)

WOW !!!!!!!! Simply beautiful Dot !:clap::clap::clap:


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## JeanLux (Jun 9, 2011)

SlipperFan said:


> ....
> Next to the heater? That's my *Dendrobium spectabile*. Huge plant!



:drool: Ok!!! really a huge spectabile!!!! Jean


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## paphioboy (Jun 9, 2011)

Holy cow! I'm from the tropics and i must say, I envy your greenhouse, Dot. You have way more blooms going at any one time than I do... :clap::clap::clap:


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## NYEric (Jun 9, 2011)

paphioboy said:


> You have way more blooms going at any one time than I do...


Shhhhh, maybe she'll board some of my plants to get them blooming!


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## wojtek (Jul 31, 2011)

Hey Dot! Post a some new pic if you can  Please


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## SlipperFan (Aug 1, 2011)

wojtek said:


> Hey Dot! Post a some new pic if you can  Please


OK -- here are a few.

The first ones show the remay material I decided to shade with as a stop-gap solution until I can figure out how to attach some Aluminet to the outside.

Very make-shift:






Outside looking in:





You can see that landscaping around the GH hasn't been done yet:





All the clutter is from the guys who are now re-siding our home.





I watered today:





Looking down (into a puddle) and up at the same time:





Many minis hanging. I think everything has grown since my last posting here!


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## gonewild (Aug 1, 2011)

In the 3rd from the last photo there are a few leaves on the floor in the back corner, what gives?


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## koshki (Aug 1, 2011)

Sigh......


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## SlipperFan (Aug 1, 2011)

gonewild said:


> In the 3rd from the last photo there are a few leaves on the floor in the back corner, what gives?



Don't look in the other corners, OK?


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## paphioboy (Aug 2, 2011)

wow. Can I say I'm jealous?  Splendid GH...


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## Shiva (Aug 2, 2011)

What a beautiful greenhouse!


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## NYEric (Aug 2, 2011)

Hope the shading works. Thanks for the updates.


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## Marco (Aug 2, 2011)

Awesome greenhouse Dot. It's well deserved.


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## chrismende (Aug 3, 2011)

Great, Dot! I love the impromptu shading - but what is "remay" material?

I particularly love the wonderful abstract into the puddle. The hose and the reflections are terrific!


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## SlipperFan (Aug 3, 2011)

chrismende said:


> Great, Dot! I love the impromptu shading - but what is "remay" material?
> 
> I particularly love the wonderful abstract into the puddle. The hose and the reflections are terrific!



Thanks, Chris.

Remay is a woven material used in gardens to either shade plants, keep insects out, or to keep them from frost in the Spring and Fall. Sometimes here in Michigan, we have late Spring frosts and early Fall ones. I mostly use the cloth in the Fall when I have lots of tomatoes ripening, and I can't stand the thought of losing them to one cold night when I know there is still growing season left. If you google "remay cloth", you'll get lots of info about it.


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## koshki (Sep 13, 2011)

Hi Dot,
I just popped in here to show my husband what I was thinking about when I was trying to describe a "photo corner" set up I'd like to try in my sunroom.

He was suggesting one of those pop-up cubes with lights and all, but I thought your setup would be less expensive and more functional (more flexible for plant heights, better background color for plants, etc.)

Could you tell me what direction your photo corner faces? I mean, looking from the plant toward the sun. I now have a spot in my sunroom that I thought might work...it faces sort of WSW, although the house blocks a lot of the afternoon sun. I have to make due with what I have, and then add the restrictions that my wheelchair places on my ability to move around. I was hoping that with natural light, a tripod, a black velvet background and a blooming plant, I might be able to get some better photographs!

Thanks!


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## SlipperFan (Sep 13, 2011)

Hi Katherine,

The opening faces East and North, but I think the only thing to consider is where the sun comes in to your sunroom the brightest. That's what you need to block if you don't want direct sun on the plants you are photographing. So one side is to block the direct sun, and the other side is to give a black background. If you don't need to block the direct sun, then all you need is the black backdrop.

Let me know how yours turns out.


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## koshki (Sep 14, 2011)

Thanks! I think I might try to pick up some black velvet tomorrow and see what I can jerry-rig.

I've tried photographing on a table on the east end of my sunroom, and have had trouble with too much light when I was experimenting. Plus, I have difficulty getting around to the right angle for decent shots. I hope this idea for the other end of the sunroom will work out better. Will let you know!


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## SlipperFan (Sep 14, 2011)

koshki said:


> Thanks! I think I might try to pick up some black velvet tomorrow and see what I can jerry-rig.
> 
> I've tried photographing on a table on the east end of my sunroom, and have had trouble with too much light when I was experimenting. Plus, I have difficulty getting around to the right angle for decent shots. I hope this idea for the other end of the sunroom will work out better. Will let you know!


OK.

Before I had my greenhouse, I photographed in my sunroom. It had windows on the E., S. & W. I put the plant in the middle of the room and the black cloth between it and the S. windows. The plant would get a lot of indirect light from the windows all around, but no direct sun because of the black cloth. It worked fine.


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## wojtek (Oct 9, 2011)

Hi Dot !!! What's new in your Greenhouse ???


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## SlipperFan (Oct 9, 2011)

wojtek said:


> Hi Dot !!! What's new in your Greenhouse ???


Hmmmm -- probably too many new plants???

Actually, I've been thinking about asking for advice about foggers. I'd like something that I can hook up to my water line that would provide humidity in the Winter and a little cooling in the Summer. This past Summer, we had about two weeks of temperatures over 90ºF, which made me consider shade cloth. But the cost would not be proportionate to the need for it for such a short time, so I'm thinking about fogging to do the job -- which would also be useful in the Winter for humidity.

I've looked at foggers and portable cool pads, but I'd love to hear suggestions from Slippertalkers...


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## NYEric (Oct 9, 2011)

Cooling pads. No such thing as too many new plants!


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## Ozpaph (Oct 10, 2011)

Buy a proper fogger. Like this but you can buy them cheaper in the USA.http://www.easyorchids.com/shop/details/116/9/hardware/humidifier

I've fiddled with many fogger nozzles but NONE produce a fine enough fog unless you go to a high pressure pump system.


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## SlipperFan (Oct 10, 2011)

Thanks, Ozpaph -- that's the kind of thing I'm looking for.


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## emydura (Oct 10, 2011)

I'm not sure how cool it gets at your place but I don't tend to have my fogger on in winter. The fogger is very effective at cooling the temperature which is not a great thing in winter. I find that the heating greatly reduces the humidity, which turns on the fogger, which cools the air, which turns on the heating, which dries the air, which turns on the fogger, etc etc. It just chases itself. You could have an issue with rot as well if there is too much moisture in winter.

Foggers are great in summer though. Low humidity in winter is my biggest problem.

David


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## cnycharles (Oct 10, 2011)

I think in winter, you would be better off having a trickling hose on the floor of your greenhouse to raise the humidity; i've heard vendors and other greenhouse owners say that this low-tech system works fairly well. ... or, if you want to use your fogger all the time, then to counter what David describes you could just use warm water to use in the fogger; it won't cool as much

thinking for a few seconds reminded me that if you were to use a fogger to emit particles of moisture into the air, they may be more likely to deposit on plants and cool, or on the underside of your plastic roof; in either case you would have drips and/or disease starting up where the moisture has collected/condensed. we have had terrible losses of plants in areas of some houses at work where the last roof plastic purchased (very cheaply) was not of the 'non-condensate' type, and moisture would collect and drip in the winter/early spring even when the sun was out. huge problem!


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## emydura (Oct 10, 2011)

I'm still experimenting but I built a big pond which sits underneath one of the benches. I heat the water to 26oC or so. This has been pretty effective in increasing the humidity - by 20-30%. Unfortunately the water heater stopped the other day so I'm currently trying to work out what is wrong with it.

David


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## Ozpaph (Oct 11, 2011)

These are the US guys who make foggers/humidifiers - http://www.hydrofogger.com/products_spare_parts

As I understand it, as the temperature drops the humidity drops. Not much you can do about it in winter if you have a non-heated orchid house.
But if its an issue I would use fogger nozzles UNDER the benches to damp the floor. Cycle with a tap timer for a minute or so every hour - cheap, efficient and water-wise!
Heating a water pool/bath will increase the ambient temp just above the water but as the temp drops (moving away from the water) so does the humidity. I use a water bath (+aquarium heater) directly under my flasklings over winter. Keeps them warm but use an ultrasonic fogger to increase the humidity (in an enclosed space).


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## emydura (Oct 11, 2011)

Ozpaph said:


> These are the US guys who make foggers/humidifiers - http://www.hydrofogger.com/products_spare_parts
> 
> As I understand it, as the temperature drops the humidity drops. Not much you can do about it in winter if you have a non-heated orchid house.
> But if its an issue I would use fogger nozzles UNDER the benches to damp the floor. Cycle with a tap timer for a minute or so every hour - cheap, efficient and water-wise!
> Heating a water pool/bath will increase the ambient temp just above the water but as the temp drops (moving away from the water) so does the humidity. I use a water bath (+aquarium heater) directly under my flasklings over winter. Keeps them warm but use an ultrasonic fogger to increase the humidity (in an enclosed space).



I already own a fogger from the US. Best thing I ever bought. But there is no way I can use it at night time in the middle winter. My heating bill is already enormous. Conitinually cooling down the greenhouse with a fogger will make it a lot worse. Then there is the issue of rot. In winter my pipes are often totally frozen so there is no way of providing water to the fogger. We all don't have the luxury of growing our orchids in Brisbane. oke: I use the fogger mostly in summer when the temps are hot and the humidity is low.

The pond setup has increased the humidity in my glasshouse by 20-30% to above 50% which is what I was hoping for.

David


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## NYEric (Oct 11, 2011)

Oh! that kind of fogger. Jaybird makes different sizes, so go for it. But I agree, cant see it in the winter for more thatn a few minutes use.


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## SlipperFan (Oct 11, 2011)

This is an interesting conversation! I didn't think about the idea that the fogger would also cool the air in the Winter -- definitely not desirable here!

My greenhouse is all glass and aluminum, but I do get condensation, so maybe another reason a fogger isn't a good idea in the winter.

But if last winter, the first one for the greenhouse, is typical, I had to wet the floor twice a day to keep the humidity at about 60%. I have thought about putting down one of those rubber hoses the leak all over (intentionally), but I hate the idea of tripping over it all the time, plus the algae that will undoubtedly grow around the constant moisture.

Cold weather is almost here, so we'll see how the humidity holds this time around. Maybe I'll just keep doing the wet-the-floor thing in the winter, and get a fogger for the hot summer days.

Thanks, Ozpaph, for the link. That is one of the ones I've been considering.


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## NYEric (Oct 11, 2011)

SlipperFan said:


> I have thought about putting down one of those rubber hoses the leak all over (intentionally), but I hate the idea of tripping over it all the time, plus the algae that will undoubtedly grow around the constant moisture.



AKA, sprinkler hose!


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## SlipperFan (Oct 11, 2011)

No -- it's called a soaker hose. It just drips -- doesn't spray.


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## NYEric (Oct 11, 2011)

Oh, OK.


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## goldenrose (Oct 12, 2011)

I've never had a problem with low humidity in my GH in the winter .....
could it be the 2 open barrels of rainwater? 
Wasn't it John M that replaced corner bench supports with water barrels & dropped his heating bill by 20%?


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## Ozpaph (Oct 12, 2011)

emydura said:


> I already own a fogger from the US. Best thing I ever bought. But there is no way I can use it at night time in the middle winter. My heating bill is already enormous. Conitinually cooling down the greenhouse with a fogger will make it a lot worse. Then there is the issue of rot. In winter my pipes are often totally frozen so there is no way of providing water to the fogger. We all don't have the luxury of growing our orchids in Brisbane. oke: I use the fogger mostly in summer when the temps are hot and the humidity is low.
> 
> The pond setup has increased the humidity in my glasshouse by 20-30% to above 50% which is what I was hoping for.
> 
> David



David, I think my point was - its hard to increase humidity if the temperature is low. Here's a link showing the relationship between temp and 'humidity'- http://www.bom.gov.au/lam/humiditycalc.shtml. 
Its just not possible to have 'high' humidity when the winter night temp is 10-15 Cel. in your glasshouse, worse if lower. 
In winter you have to add more heat to increase the humidity. In summer, like you, I add as much water into the air as I can to lower the temp and raise the humidity.


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## emydura (Oct 12, 2011)

Ozpaph said:


> David, I think my point was - its hard to increase humidity if the temperature is low. Here's a link showing the relationship between temp and 'humidity'- http://www.bom.gov.au/lam/humiditycalc.shtml.
> Its just not possible to have 'high' humidity when the winter night temp is 10-15 Cel. in your glasshouse, worse if lower.
> In winter you have to add more heat to increase the humidity. In summer, like you, I add as much water into the air as I can to lower the temp and raise the humidity.



Thanks. You are correct. But my low humidity (30% in winter) is due to the drying effects of heaters rather than cool temperatures. My minimum temperature in winter is around 16oC. It takes a lot of heat to to keep it that way when it is well below freezing outside. Interestingly my minimum temps in summer is also mainly 16oC (unless we get a really balmy night) but the humidity is around 80% because there is generally no heating involved.

David


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## quietaustralian (Oct 12, 2011)

Ozpaph said:


> David, I think my point was - its hard to increase humidity if the temperature is low. Here's a link showing the relationship between temp and 'humidity'- http://www.bom.gov.au/lam/humiditycalc.shtml.
> Its just not possible to have 'high' humidity when the winter night temp is 10-15 Cel. in your glasshouse, worse if lower.
> In winter you have to add more heat to increase the humidity. In summer, like you, I add as much water into the air as I can to lower the temp and raise the humidity.



Temperature is only one part of the equation, air pressure/dew point are others. At the time of writing its 7.6C here and the relative humidity is 83%, 1020hPa and dew point is 4.9C. 

As an aside: I had a conversation recently with someone that was considering evaporative cooling or a fogger, the only problem is that at the hottest time of year the humidity is between 85-100%. The cooling effect of evaporative cooling or a fogger in those humidity ranges at 30C would be between about 3C and 0C. He might as well just run a fan.

Mick


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## cnycharles (Oct 12, 2011)

there are 'sprinkler hoses', though I haven't purposely looked for them to see if they are still made; they are a flat hose that has tiny holes poked into them about every so often so that a band of area around the hose gets something stronger than a mist. if they are still available they would broadcast the water around a little more, if that's desirable over a seeping hose

at times of high humidity you can 'force' fogger coolers to cool a little by moving the air around a lot. I don't remember the mechanism described, but have heard that strong air movement helps them, though at 100% there definitely won't be much!


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## Ray (Oct 12, 2011)

I know I'm coming in WAY late on the conversation, but there seem to be some misconception/misinterpretation going on.

Heaters only "dry out" the air if they are literally drawing humidified air out of the greenhouse. What we most commonly see, and misinterpret at "drying" is a reduction in the RH caused by heating. For example, let's say it is 1°C outside and raining heavily. The RH outside is 100% - the air is saturated, but that absolute mass of water is low. Bring that air inside and heat it up, and while the absolute mass of water in the air is the same, the capacity of the air to hold moisture goes way up, making the _relative humidity_ - the percentage of its capacity - lower.

I also think the concern that a fogger will significantly drive up your heating bill is misplaced.

It takes a certain amount of energy to raise the temperature of a mass of water from A to B, and in this case "B" is a level that causes it to go into the air. That energy has to come from somewhere. Have a pond in the greenhouse, and energy is taken from the air, and put into the water. Have a fogger, and the exact same thing happens, although you've increased the surface area sufficiently to make it happen faster. You will see that energy consumption in your fuel or electric bill. Put a heater in that pond, and the energy is still going to be on your bill, isn't it?

However, if you have a nice, tight greenhouse, with very little leakage, the "spike" in energy consumption will only happen in the initial effort to boost the RH. Once it's in the air, all you're doing is maintaining the temperature, not paying to add more moisture to the air. And as was said, as you increase the humidity, the "cooling effect" of a fogger does down, so "refilling" the air from leaks and door opening shouldn't be significant.

So, that simply means that you need to "batten down all the hatches" to keep from losing the precious humidity and warmth, and you'll keep your costs at a minimum.

Nobody said this was a cheap hobby.


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## Marc (Oct 12, 2011)

Wise words Ray people always seem to mix up relative and absolute humidity.


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## emydura (Oct 12, 2011)

Ray said:


> I know I'm coming in WAY late on the conversation, but there seem to be some misconception/misinterpretation going on.
> 
> Heaters only "dry out" the air if they are literally drawing humidified air out of the greenhouse. What we most commonly see, and misinterpret at "drying" is a reduction in the RH caused by heating. For example, let's say it is 1°C outside and raining heavily. The RH outside is 100% - the air is saturated, but that absolute mass of water is low. Bring that air inside and heat it up, and while the absolute mass of water in the air is the same, the capacity of the air to hold moisture goes way up, making the _relative humidity_ - the percentage of its capacity - lower.
> 
> ...



Thanks Ray. I understand. I'm currently looking at moving to a twin-walled polycarbonate greenhouse. They seem to have become so cheap recently. Hopefully that should be more leak proof than my old glass greenhouse.

David


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## Bjorn (Oct 13, 2011)

A timely correction from Ray, - one that I fully agree on. I have however a few comments/additions. Having grown orchids in the norwegian climate in an aluminium structure greenhouse with double sheeted polycarbonate for 15 years, I might have made some experiences that can be useful.
first a comment regarding Rays explanation. Youre absolutely right Ray, the heat is consumed to evaporate water and this is basically a one-time expense. In cold weather the water tends to condense on cold surfaces, theoretically releasing the evaporation energy (enthalpy). This is theoretically. So in principle no addition to the heating bill due to high humidity. This is not entirely correct though since the coefficient of heat-transfer from air to the cold spot is influenced by that humidty so heat loss is bigger (but not that much bigger) with humid air.
I would not recommend to lower humidity though, unless the plants are resting etc. Increasing humidity is not difficult using a hydrofogger or some similar equipment. It should be attached to a hygrostat, so that its fairly well automised. The problem of condensation, may make it difficult to maintain high humidity though, but this is an effect of heat-loss and not the warming itself.
What you should consider is to try to reduce the heat loss. I have experienced that the aluminum structure itself is the most important source of heat-loss. The structure serves as a quite efficient cooling-rib unless the heat transfer is interrupted. Possibly some greenhouses may be available taking that fact into consideration but I have not seen any here in Norway. Well to put it shortly, I mounted an extra set of double-walled polycarbonate inside the structure when the house was erected. Later I installed heat-pumps (can also be used as airconditioning) and this summer, as a consequence of last years ridiculous heating bills (one-full month salary for the period Nov-April!!!) I ripped off the vents closed the opening with poly, and covered also the outside of the house with another, third layer of double-poly. So now it is no vents to open, and six layers of poly-sheeting. Ventilation is taken care of with fans and additional heat reduction by air-con. The light does get much reduced, but there is still enough during summer for cattleyas and also dendrobiums. During the winter light has to be supplied anyhow du to the very low sun. My house does not get sun at all during Dec-January, so I am totally dependent on HPS lamps. These run during winter time and provides heat as well as light. A costly story and also vunreable to power failures. More a worry in winter than in summer, its not only winters that are cold here
Power failures are rare however and the house takes a day to cool down to dangerous levels even in winter.
Hope this contains useful info, I guess its not necessary to go to such extremes for you, but If I was to prioritise, I would have invesed in a fogger and also tried to do something with the aluminium ribs of the house.


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2011)

An alternative to build a greenhouse made with an aluminium or steel frame would be a "plastic" framework. It's pretty common to see this being used as a conservatory attached to a house. Building one specific as a greenhouse should be a possibility as well. Only issue I can see is the cost of the initial purchase.


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## Ray (Oct 13, 2011)

I agree 100% Bjorn. The more-humid air has more mass, so carries more thermal energy with it - lost both to leaks and to the structure faster than the same temperature drier air would. Leaks are a killer.


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## Ozpaph (Oct 13, 2011)

quietaustralian said:


> Temperature is only one part of the equation, air pressure/dew point are others. At the time of writing its 7.6C here and the relative humidity is 83%, 1020hPa and dew point is 4.9C.
> 
> As an aside: I had a conversation recently with someone that was considering evaporative cooling or a fogger, the only problem is that at the hottest time of year the humidity is between 85-100%. The cooling effect of evaporative cooling or a fogger in those humidity ranges at 30C would be between about 3C and 0C. He might as well just run a fan.
> 
> Mick


We can't change air pressure in our growing areas and relative humidity is relative to temperature. We want absolute humidity ie more water in the air at all temps. There is a graph on the same link that shows that RH is very high at low temps ie. the air is saturated but its not holding much water. Now, I'm not sure what's important to the plants, RH or AH. I suppose it doesn't really matter, we're bound by atmospherics and our ability to afford adequate heating in winter.
Fortunately, outside the tropics, high temps are associated with low/medium RH so we can achieve cooling through fogging. And having a fan running helps too.


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## SlipperFan (Oct 13, 2011)

We have triple pane glass, except for the awning windows and ridge vents windows, which are double pane:
http://floriangreenhouse.com/IMAGES/new-glazing-chart.jpg

This is the construction of the aluminum structure:
http://floriangreenhouse.com/Features/Weep&GuterSystem.jpg


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## SlipperFan (Nov 2, 2011)

Today was a banner day! The guys who put together the greenhouse came back to finish the job. They sealed the awning windows -- no more cold wind robbing the greenhouse of warmth:






And they went up on the roof to "wet-seal" all the joints. Remember, they built this in the Winter when it was snowing, so although they sealed the seams, they couldn't quite seal them tight. I did have a few leaks when it rained -- very minor, actually, but this is now resolved.









View from the inside:









Also, I've been hanging a lot more plants, making better use of the vertical space. Here are two views of the inside from today, the first from the SE corner, the second from the SW. I had to stitch shots together to get it all in:


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## likespaphs (Nov 2, 2011)

that's strong glass!


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## NYEric (Nov 3, 2011)

So nice.


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## Marc (Nov 3, 2011)

Lovely, I can only hope that in a couple of years I have a greenhouse halve the size of yours.


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## Clark (Nov 3, 2011)

:clap:


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## Gilda (Nov 3, 2011)

:clap::drool: Beautiful Dot !!! So happy for you !


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## paphreek (Nov 3, 2011)

You've done a great job of using the space!


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## wojtek (Nov 4, 2011)

Nice to have a private heaven in garden


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## chrismende (Nov 5, 2011)

Wow, Dot, you have a lot of plants in that space! I'm just beginning to hang more and more things, now. How nice to get the final touches to the seals in before winter sets in in earnest.


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## Orchidzrule (Nov 5, 2011)

likespaphs said:


> that's strong glass!



I'll say! I gasped when I saw them standing on it.


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## SlipperFan (Nov 5, 2011)

likespaphs said:


> that's strong glass!





Orchidzrule said:


> I'll say! I gasped when I saw them standing on it.



When they came to put on the final touches, my husband said, "When you are on the roof, you probably only walk on the metal, right?" Rod answered, "No -- we walk all over the glass as well as the metal. We do that all the time." And they did!


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## koshki (Nov 5, 2011)

Sigh.......!!


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## Lanmark (Nov 7, 2011)

Nice!


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## SlipperFan (Nov 30, 2011)

First snow this season dumped about 8.5 inches on us last night:






This is what it looked like this morning:


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## koshki (Nov 30, 2011)

Wow! We didn't get anywhere near that much snow. 

What did it look like from inside your greenhouse?


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## SlipperFan (Nov 30, 2011)

I didn't take photos from inside, but it's pretty much like this earlier post, from last winter. Only there are a lot more plants in there now...

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=260598&postcount=204


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## koshki (Nov 30, 2011)

Pretty photos! I am no where near ready to face winter...


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## SlipperFan (Nov 30, 2011)

Neither am I! But here it is.


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## Stone (Nov 30, 2011)

SlipperFan said:


> First snow this season dumped about 8.5 inches on us last night:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How on earth do you keep it warm in there Dot?


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## SlipperFan (Nov 30, 2011)

Stone said:


> How on earth do you keep it warm in there Dot?


Two natural gas heaters. One for main, one as back-up:
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=255042&postcount=124


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## John M (Nov 30, 2011)

Wow, Dot! The weather system that dumped all that snow on you came my way too; but, by the time it got here, it was just rain....lots and lots and lots of rain! It snowed heavily this morning; but, none of it stayed. It just melted as as soon as it hit the ground. Are you in a snow belt?


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## NYEric (Dec 1, 2011)

That sucks! Hope it doesn't stay cold.


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## Hera (Dec 1, 2011)

Nice to have a tropical paradise to retreat to when the cold gets to be too much.


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## SlipperFan (Dec 1, 2011)

John M said:


> Wow, Dot! The weather system that dumped all that snow on you came my way too; but, by the time it got here, it was just rain....lots and lots and lots of rain! It snowed heavily this morning; but, none of it stayed. It just melted as as soon as it hit the ground. Are you in a snow belt?


Well, for this storm we were! But usually there is more snow closer to Lake Michigan. But this time, that area is snow-free, and the length of mid-Michigan got dumped on.

You should see all the broken trees and branches down around here because of all the wet stuff.



Hera said:


> Nice to have a tropical paradise to retreat to when the cold gets to be too much.


Total agreement here!


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## John M (Dec 1, 2011)

SlipperFan said:


> You should see all the broken trees and branches down around here because of all the wet stuff.



That's a bummer! The heavy snow and ice can really do a lot of damage and it takes the trees so long to recover. Your greenhouse is so attractive. It must be very nice to be out there when the sun is shining on all the white snow around you.


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## Shiva (Dec 2, 2011)

What a marvellous greenhouse you have Dot. And it really shines in the snow.


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## likespaphs (Dec 2, 2011)

i still get freaked out by the photos of them walking on the glass!


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## SlipperFan (Apr 24, 2012)

Something new has been added: 30% shade cloth

Last Summer, we had a couple of weeks of really hot weather, and really hot sun beating into the greenhouse. So I thought, and thought, and thought -- do I need shade cloth? If so, should I put it inside or outside???

I decided yes -- I don't need a lot of shading, but I wanted to diffuse the sun a little more than what the tinted windows do. Putting it on the outside is supposed to be the best option, but it would have been prohibitively expensive to rig a system that could be easily assembled and disassembled each season. So I opted to put it inside. 

I'm amazed at it's effectiveness already. I installed it three days ago, and for the past two days, although the temperature at plant level read 77ºF and 79ºF, the ridge vents, which are set at 82ºF opened. So I have great hopes that that little bit of shading will help keep the plants a little cooler when the hot weather returns.

View from the door:






View from the back (I had to splice together 3 photos to make this image):





The plant on the right is not shaded, so you can see the effect of 30% shading:


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## Justin (Apr 24, 2012)

wow those plants look like they are loving their digs...


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## Marc (Apr 25, 2012)

I love seeing pictures of your greenhouse Dot!


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## keithrs (Apr 25, 2012)

Look'n good.... Your plants will love the shade cloth.


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## fibre (Apr 25, 2012)

Your greenhouse is fantastic, Dot!


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## koshki (Apr 25, 2012)

Looks great, Dot! I love how you have so many plants hanging.

Just out of curiosity (I didn't have time to search this thread for this info)...what are the dimensions of your greenhouse?


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## KyushuCalanthe (Apr 25, 2012)

Wow, a dream come true Dot - I'm envious!


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## NYEric (Apr 25, 2012)

Wow! Nice that it fit inside.


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## Stone (Apr 25, 2012)

Nice set up Dot. You don't have shade on the outside?


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## Yoyo_Jo (Apr 25, 2012)

I want a greenhouse just like yours when I grow up.


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## JeanLux (Apr 26, 2012)

Very interesting option Dot :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: Jean


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## paphreek (Apr 26, 2012)

Everything still looks great! You are right about the shade cloth. It works best outside, but is still effective on the inside. Is it aluminet?


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## W. Beetus (Apr 26, 2012)

That looks great! I'm sure the plants will like the extra shade.


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## tomkalina (Apr 26, 2012)

Hi Dot,

Looks like a great set-up! Ours is similar, but using 70% shade cloth on the outside of the greenhouse. It's amazing how much it lowers the temp during periods of hot weather. Is that Aluminet? And what is your eventual light intensity on a sunny day?

Thanks, Tom


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## SlipperFan (Apr 26, 2012)

tomkalina said:


> Hi Dot,
> 
> Looks like a great set-up! Ours is similar, but using 70% shade cloth on the outside of the greenhouse. It's amazing how much it lowers the temp during periods of hot weather. Is that Aluminet? And what is your eventual light intensity on a sunny day?
> 
> Thanks, Tom



Hi Tom,

It is aluminet. I know putting shadecloth on the outside is preferred, I just couldn't make it work for me. I'm not sure exactly what my light intensity reading is anymore, but I do know that the triple-pane tinted glass cuts the sun's intensity nearly in half. I also have very tall maple trees on the east side of the GH which shade it until about noon, and a big locust tree on the west side which gives shade after 4 pm. So it's the 4 hours of hottest sun I'm concerned about.


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## Susie11 (Jun 13, 2012)

Gobsmacked and amazed. Beautiful thread.


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## Linus_Cello (Jun 13, 2012)

Apologies if you addressed this somewhere in the 40+ pages of the thread, but in your most recent pic, it appears that some of your strap-leafs are grown semi-hydro (S/H), and some are grown non-S/H. How did you decide which one to be S/H?


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## SlipperFan (Jun 13, 2012)

Linus_Cello said:


> Apologies if you addressed this somewhere in the 40+ pages of the thread, but in your most recent pic, it appears that some of your strap-leafs are grown semi-hydro (S/H), and some are grown non-S/H. How did you decide which one to be S/H?



You may be seeing the deep clear S/H plastic pots on some of my Paphs and Phrags, but it's been over two years ago that I took all my slippers out of S/H. I still have a few plants from other genera in S/H, but I found that S/H didn't work well for me with my slippers.


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## Linus_Cello (Jun 14, 2012)

SlipperFan said:


> You may be seeing the deep clear S/H plastic pots on some of my Paphs and Phrags, but it's been over two years ago that I took all my slippers out of S/H. I still have a few plants from other genera in S/H, but I found that S/H didn't work well for me with my slippers.



In the first pic, it's a hanging in-bloom strap leaf paph (my guess would be Paph Julius or some other cross with lowii).


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## SlipperFan (Jun 14, 2012)

Linus_Cello said:


> In the first pic, it's a hanging in-bloom strap leaf paph (my guess would be Paph Julius or some other cross with lowii).



It is Julius. It's in my standard mix in a deep pot. I drilled holes in the bottoms of these for drainage, as per regular pots.


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## Linus_Cello (Jun 15, 2012)

SlipperFan said:


> It is Julius. It's in my standard mix in a deep pot. I drilled holes in the bottoms of these for drainage, as per regular pots.



I don't see the holes on the bottom, but I did see the holes on the side near the bottom, which is why I thought it was s/h.


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## SlipperFan (Jun 15, 2012)

Linus_Cello said:


> I don't see the holes on the bottom, but I did see the holes on the side near the bottom, which is why I thought it was s/h.



I figured that, which is why I added the info about drilling holes in the bottom.


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## chrismende (Jun 16, 2012)

Looks great, Dot. I, too, have had to get the light adjusted lately. I put whitewash on the roof. Much cooler now! I am still thinking of getting a strip of Aluminet for the seedling bench, and putting it on wires that I can use to pull it over the plants or back to let more light in.


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## SlipperFan (Jun 16, 2012)

Thanks, Chris. I'm really amazed at how much difference the 30% shade/aluminet has made.


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## eaborne (Jun 17, 2012)

SlipperFan said:


> I still have a few plants from other genera in S/H, but I found that S/H didn't work well for me with my slippers.



I am also having mixed results with semi-hydro with my phrags. Some are doing good and others have deteriorated so I've taken those out of semi-hydro. What did you notice with semi-hydro that made you switch back? Thanks.


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## SlipperFan (Jun 17, 2012)

eaborne said:


> I am also having mixed results with semi-hydro with my phrags. Some are doing good and others have deteriorated so I've taken those out of semi-hydro. What did you notice with semi-hydro that made you switch back? Thanks.


My theory is that even Phrag roots need to breathe. I may have left my plants in the same pots for too many years, and the roots filled in all the spaces between the PrimeAgra pellets. Since they couldn't breathe anymore, they rotted. Just a theory, understand, but they grew well for 2-3 years, and then the roots rotted. For my own growing conditions, I think the potting media I've been using seems to work best for me.


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## eaborne (Jun 18, 2012)

Thank you and I seem to think my phrags with an airier mix do a little better too.


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## SlipperFan (Jun 30, 2012)

I see I neglected to respond to a couple questions -- 



koshki said:


> Looks great, Dot! I love how you have so many plants hanging.
> 
> Just out of curiosity (I didn't have time to search this thread for this info)...what are the dimensions of your greenhouse?


It is 16' x 26', 6 of the 26 is used for the photo corner and work area. So the growing area is 16' x 20.'



paphreek said:


> Everything still looks great! You are right about the shade cloth. It works best outside, but is still effective on the inside. Is it aluminet?


It is 30% aluminet. I know that for the most efficiency, it should be on the outside, but I coudn't come up with an inexpensive way to have it there, without just laying it on the surface which isn't a good idea, especially with ridge vents.

It is effective where it is, though. two days ago, the temperature got to 97ºF outside, but the warmest reading on the inside was 93ºF. Not a huge difference, but enough to keep me happy. Of course, the fans help...


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## SlipperFan (Apr 22, 2013)

Update:
I thought my Phrags may not be receiving enough air, as they were all on the same level on a bench. So I added a shelf, and now I can actually see leaves moving.

From back:




From front:


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## SlipperKing (Apr 22, 2013)

Nice Dot!


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## NYEric (Apr 22, 2013)

Looks familiar!  I am adding some fans also. Thanks for the update.


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## The Orchid Boy (Apr 22, 2013)

Looks like a lawn of grass that needs mowed! :rollhappy:


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## Trithor (Apr 23, 2013)

Wow Dot, you grow your plants realy well. I am envious!


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## Ozpaph (Apr 23, 2013)

you grow nice plants!


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## SlipperFan (Oct 7, 2013)

A few photos of my October 2013 greenhouse:


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## Ozpaph (Oct 7, 2013)

Wow, Dot. A lot of vandaceous. You must have enough light to flower them.


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## SlipperFan (Oct 7, 2013)

Ozpaph said:


> Wow, Dot. A lot of vandaceous. You must have enough light to flower them.


They are on the south side of the greenhouse. Big trees shade on the east until about noon or 1 pm, and a locust shades on the west from about 4 or 5 -- depending on the time of year. They are all deciduous, so more light in the winter when they really need it.


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## NYEric (Oct 7, 2013)

Thanks for sharing.

BTW, that's a scary amount of Neos!


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## Secundino (Oct 8, 2013)

Wow, that's joy!


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## 2Toned (Oct 8, 2013)

*Incredible!*

Dot,

WOW! :drool:

I've just spent 2 hrs going through this thread, it's a wonderful journal. Thank you!

Your greenhouse is worthy of the grandees of orchid collections of the Victorian era, IMO. What a lucky girl!

Tony


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## Hera (Oct 8, 2013)

The collection really has grown. Thanks for the tour, it was inspiring as always!


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## SlipperFan (Oct 8, 2013)

NYEric said:


> ...BTW, that's a scary amount of Neos!


??? Only 20. :evil:


Secundino said:


> Wow, that's joy!


It is indeed. After living with it for a couple years, there's really very little I'd do differently.


2Toned said:


> Dot,
> 
> WOW! :drool:
> 
> ...


Thanks, Tony. I am lucky! And you are amazing, to spend two hours going through this thread!


Hera said:


> The collection really has grown. Thanks for the tour, it was inspiring as always!


It has grown! I'm afraid to tell you my collection has tripled in size sine I moved in! I really have to start reigning myself in now.


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## Paph_LdyMacBeth (Oct 8, 2013)

I think I found a corner of this amazing space where I can live happily ever after.

Sent from my BlackBerry Bold 9900 using Tapatalk


----------



## SlipperFan (Oct 9, 2013)




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## Justin (Oct 9, 2013)

Wow Dot that is amazing


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## 2Toned (Oct 10, 2013)

Dot, I just have to ask - when do you find time to pot, pic & post?


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## NYEric (Oct 10, 2013)

SlipperFan said:


> ??? Only 20. :evil:
> 
> It has grown! I'm afraid to tell you my collection has tripled in size since I moved in! I really have to start reigning myself in now.



A woman after my own heart!


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## SlipperFan (Oct 10, 2013)

2Toned said:


> Dot, I just have to ask - when do you find time to pot, pic & post?



I'm retired. That helps a little.


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## The Mutant (Oct 11, 2013)

Okay, I'll never whine about having to repot my 80 orchids... Ever again.


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## SlipperFan (Dec 19, 2013)

Thought I'd share with you what it looks like outside my greenhouse from inside:


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## NYEric (Dec 19, 2013)

Hmmmmmm.


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## tomkalina (Dec 20, 2013)

Very nice environment - both inside and out.


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## papheteer (Dec 21, 2013)

What an amazing piece of heaven you have. Truly blessed. I hope to have one someday. Thank you for sharing.


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## phraggy (Dec 21, 2013)

Just read qll the way through your construction. What I like is --EVERYTHING especially the stuff you can't see!!

Ed


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## JeanLux (Dec 22, 2013)

Wow, still enough light inside?? Jean


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## Paphluvr (Dec 22, 2013)

Hey, Dot. With all those trees around your greenhouse I hope you aren't getting the ice build-up that we are here in the thumb. I see quit a few branches on the ground already. 

The lowest branch on my large fir tree out front is attached to the trunk about 15' up, but the tip of the branch is touching the ground. I'm also keeping my eye on a massive maple in the back yard. Nothing large broken so far!


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## SlipperFan (Dec 23, 2013)

JeanLux said:


> Wow, still enough light inside?? Jean


Now that the icicles are gone and the snow is off the roof, yes.


Paphluvr said:


> Hey, Dot. With all those trees around your greenhouse I hope you aren't getting the ice build-up that we are here in the thumb. I see quit a few branches on the ground already.
> 
> The lowest branch on my large fir tree out front is attached to the trunk about 15' up, but the tip of the branch is touching the ground. I'm also keeping my eye on a massive maple in the back yard. Nothing large broken so far!


I'm posting a few photos of what it looks like around here. There is a 1/2 inch of ice on every surface. Broken trees everywhere, and also power lines. We are very lucky that the limbs from the tall tree beside the greenhouse came down away from it. I told my husband, after another limb came down, that that tree has to go. it is just too tall and too weak.
Thousands of homes and businesses in mid-Michigan are still without power. Our power came back on after 24 hours, and our internet after a day and a half. We are still without phone (land-line). We are very glad we invested in a good generator, so we have heat in our home and the greenhouse.


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## NYEric (Dec 23, 2013)

"Green Acres is the place to be,
farm living is the life for me.."


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## SlipperFan (Dec 25, 2013)

Well, you (NYC) had a lovely time with flooding recently...

Here's a photo taken from inside my greenhouse. My husband said, "What a difference a pane of glass makes!"


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## eaborne (Dec 25, 2013)

I love that picture!


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## SlipperFan (Aug 31, 2014)

Some iPhone snapshots of my greenhouse today, all nice and clean:


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## Rick (Aug 31, 2014)

It's wonderful Dot:drool::clap:

You wanta come down and clean mine:sob:


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## NYEric (Aug 31, 2014)

Man, you have a lot of plants! p


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## JeanLux (Sep 1, 2014)

Wow, that's a clean one, bravo!!!! And lots of non-slipper flowers :clap: !!!! Jean


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## troy (Sep 1, 2014)

I'd like to take those dozers plow down the apts in front of me and build me a greenhouse the size of the apts.


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## NYEric (Sep 1, 2014)

troy said:


> I'd like to take those dozers plow down the apts in front of me and build me a greenhouse the size of the apts.


Seems a little antisocial!


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## daniella3d (Sep 1, 2014)

wow! You put the Montreal botanical garden to shame. They don't even have a fraction of what you have in your greenhouse. Amazing collection!


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## SlipperFan (Sep 1, 2014)

Thanks, folks!

@Jean -- about half of my collection are slippers. The rest are whatever catches my fancy...


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## NYEric (Sep 2, 2014)

daniella3d said:


> wow! You put the Montreal botanical garden to shame. They don't even have a fraction of what you have in your greenhouse. Amazing collection!


That's nice; but not true. A large part of the collection is not shown to the public. Denis is a member here and is one of the orchid guys responsible for their collection. They always have amazing specimen plants at the Orchidphiles show in Montreal. Hope to see you there.


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## troy (Sep 3, 2014)

A reply to the antisocial response to my saying I'd like to plow the apts in front of me only bcuse they block alot of light and I'd love to have me a very big greenhouse, I can grow paphs bcuse they don't require much light but theres alot of other species I'd like to grow that have different requirements, including no harm to my neighbors they are nice


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## NYEric (Sep 3, 2014)

Ok.


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## troy (Sep 3, 2014)

No offense taken eric, I guess from another perspective other than my own, that statement could have sounded barbaric, I'm a little rough around the edges, bear with me, we are all orchid lovers, and probably 90 percent of us are wildlife habitat conservationists


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## NYEric (Sep 3, 2014)

LOL! I was just poking fun. You have no idea how rough we are around the edges here.


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## Trithor (Sep 3, 2014)

I think it was a great idea to bulldoze apartment blocks and replace them with equally large greenhouses!:evil:


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## daniella3d (Sep 3, 2014)

yeah, that's exactly the problem. shame.



NYEric said:


> That's nice; but not true. A large part of the collection is not shown to the public.


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## SlipperFan (Sep 4, 2014)

I guess I had better post some more photos...


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## bigleaf (Sep 4, 2014)

Awesome!


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## SlipperFan (Oct 31, 2014)

Walking from the backyard to the greenhouse this fall, the light was such, and the leaves were such that it looked like the greenhouse was on fire:


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## abax (Nov 1, 2014)

What a lovely place to hide from "the world and all the bad news". My
greenhouse is my sanctuary and I betcha your gh is for you too.


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## NYEric (Nov 1, 2014)

I cant believe you have so much shade over the GH!


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## AdamD (Nov 1, 2014)

NYEric said:


> I cant believe you have so much shade over the GH!



I was thinking the same! It looks like my yard, I can hardly get grass to grow under the canopy I have, let alone orchids!

That being said, what a beautiful fortress of solitude! And nothing but beautifully grown plants and flowers from what you have shared.


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## Ozpaph (Nov 1, 2014)

a lovely time of year; missed in the subtropics


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## SlipperFan (Nov 1, 2014)

NYEric said:


> I cant believe you have so much shade over the GH!



The angle of view deceives: There are tall trees to the East, SE and one in the West, but non of them hang over the top. They are all deciduous, which lets the sun come in (filtered through the branches) all day in the winter, and in the summer, the overhead sun has no interference (except for the low-E glass & 30% shade cloth) from about noon until about 4.


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## SlipperFan (Nov 1, 2014)

So, 4 years ago, the adventure of building my own greenhouse began. For multiple reasons, we haven't been able to finish the landscaping around the greenhouse. But this summer, we found a landscaper who we could work with to do something that would enhance and finish off the area without breaking the bank too much. We came up with a plan, and yesterday, the process began.













These views should give a better idea about where the trees are relative to the greenhouse.


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## cnycharles (Nov 1, 2014)

It's taller/bigger than I thought! You could fit some Hawaiian tree ferns in there and hang orchids from them 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SlipperFan (Nov 2, 2014)

cnycharles said:


> It's taller/bigger than I thought! You could fit some Hawaiian tree ferns in there and hang orchids from them
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



 ...except there isn't any room!


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## abax (Nov 2, 2014)

What's your plan so far? I only have one long south side and I landscaped
with daylilies, peony and different annuals each year until everything fills
out. If you can find it, there's a wonderful ground cover that's in the
dogwood family available. I've forgotten the name, but White Flower
Farm has it in their catalog. It isn't an aggressive spreader.


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## cnycharles (Nov 3, 2014)

Bunchberry


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SlipperKing (Nov 3, 2014)

NYEric said:


> I cant believe you have so much shade over the GH!



Mine use to be even more so, before the drought hit in 12. Now I have to have heavy, ugly shadecloth all over the gh. I never had problems blooming anything.
Beautiful scene Dot.


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## SlipperFan (Nov 3, 2014)

@Angela: I decided I don't want any plants near the greenhouse -- too many hiding places for bugs that would like to get inside. So we are doing pavers and a wall, plus we are extending the driveway for access to the back yard. 

Today, the process began.
Here, they are locating where the pipes (Water, gas, electricity) goes into the wall:




This photo shows where the pavers will go on the west side of the greenhouse:




Digging the driveway area on the east side of the greenhouse.




The hill in back is gone:




They took away 4 truckloads of dirt so far.


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## abax (Nov 3, 2014)

That's a neat solution...at least you won't have roots growing into your
foundation. I wish sometimes that I'd done that, but I have so little
sun back here in the woods that I just couldn't let a good perennial
area go to waste.

BTW, that looks like good soil and you can send it here. This area is mostly
clay.


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## Ozpaph (Nov 4, 2014)

please keep us updated.


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## SlipperFan (Nov 4, 2014)

abax said:


> ...BTW, that looks like good soil and you can send it here. This area is mostly clay.


I know what you mean by clay. My Dad's farm was mostly clay soil. Very sticky when wet, and hard to drain. Our soil here is a sandy loam on top and under that is mostly sand. It drains very well, but doesn't grow things well. All our garden and perennial beds have a top layer of good soil (added by us), or we wouldn't have much vegetation. 

I'd be glad to send you some...


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## SlipperFan (Nov 4, 2014)

Today started out nice -- temp in the 50's, but it gradually turned cold and nasty. But the crew worked on through it!

Here, they are removing my temporary entry-way tiles.




This is the crushed stone they are putting under all the new tiles:




So much hand digging! Here, they are preparing for the block wall:




Showing the compactor they use before setting the blocks/tiles:




Starting the block wall:




All those roots. I wonder if the tree will survive.


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## DeafOrchidLover (Nov 5, 2014)

Wow! What a nice journal of your greenhouse dated four years ago... I enjoy reading and admiring your pictures... Ofc, we all orchids lover do have dreams greenhouse. Yes, please keep update about our landscaping. It looks WOW, it takes my speech away. It looks so organized and nice-looking gh and place, too...  


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## abax (Nov 5, 2014)

Uh Dot, when those men finish, send them down here with the soil. I
want to enclose our pool for winter use. They appear to be doing an excellent job.


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## SlipperFan (Nov 5, 2014)

DeafOrchidLover said:


> Wow! What a nice journal of your greenhouse dated four years ago... I enjoy reading and admiring your pictures... Ofc, we all orchids lover do have dreams greenhouse. Yes, please keep update about our landscaping. It looks WOW, it takes my speech away. It looks so organized and nice-looking gh and place, too...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Thanks! It is indeed a dream-come-true!


abax said:


> Uh Dot, when those men finish, send them down here with the soil. I want to enclose our pool for winter use. They appear to be doing an excellent job.


We have been impressed with their work ethic and attention to detail. And after they work in what is coming to Michigan soon, I'm sure they'd love to come work in a warmer place!


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## SlipperFan (Nov 5, 2014)

Day 3: The wall is growing:




We like the curved corners.




Showing the structure: the landscape fabric, the drain tube, the crushed stone and the blocks.




And the driveway is taking shape:


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## goods (Nov 5, 2014)

Dot, I haven't commented on this thread until now, but I must say that this entire structure is beautiful. Most conventional greenhouse can be unsightly from the outside and are strictly utilitarian. In yours, both the building and its contents are very nice!


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## SlipperFan (Nov 5, 2014)

Thank you, goods. The greenhouse sits at the end of the drive, very prominent from the street. It had to look good. But part of the look is due to the Florian design -- that's the glass portion.


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## NYEric (Nov 6, 2014)

You should consider the expansion before you put the retaining wall in! :evil:


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## SlipperFan (Nov 6, 2014)

NYEric said:


> You should consider the expansion before you put the retaining wall in! :evil:



:rollhappy: It is big enough. I already have more orchids than I should have, given that they grow and get bigger every year...


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## SlipperFan (Nov 6, 2014)

Today was nasty, cold and wet. But two guys continued to work through it. They mostly were working on the wall between the new drive and the greenhouse:




The pavers were also delivered today. I expect they may start on that phase tomorrow:


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## NYEric (Nov 6, 2014)

SlipperFan said:


> I already have more orchids than I should have, given that they grow and get bigger every year...


That's why it's not big enough!


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## abax (Nov 7, 2014)

Dot, I absolutely have to say this, so forgive me if I intrude. Tell the contractors to really reinforce the wall by the driveway. I HAD a lovely
hand cut stone wall around some perennial beds across from my gh and
every single delivery truck has hit that wall and now it's a shambles. There's plenty of room there and a circular drive, but it's been hit over
and over again. Warning doesn't help and standing out in the middle
of the driveway screaming doesn't help either. I suggest steel rebar or
a big crappy sign saying "Don't hit the wall, idiot"! BIG sign.


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## NYEric (Nov 7, 2014)

Install bollards anchored in concrete!


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## SlipperFan (Nov 7, 2014)

NYEric said:


> Install bollards anchored in concrete!


My husband actually did quite a lot of research on these, but we decided they would look ugly.

Angela, The wall is built well and reinforced. The drive is approx. 12 feet wide, and the curve is wide enough to accommodate any vehicle needing access to the back yard. Nonetheless, we will be putting markers in for the truck that plows our main drive when we need him. Luckily, there will be no deliveries to the back yard.

Today was mostly working on the drive, and some work on the wall:




After the ground was prepared by leveling and compacting, they laid down the landscape fabric:




The truck that was to deliver the crushed stone for the drive was delayed about two hour. But finally at 4:45 pm, it came. It was so big, they had to dump the load at the end of the drive and then use a front loader to scoop up the stones and take them to the driveway:




It was getting quite dark when they finished putting the stones in place:


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## abax (Nov 7, 2014)

The project is really beginning to shape up nicely. Don't forget who
warned you about that wall though. Our drive is 18' wide...doesn't seem
to make any difference to some truck drivers.


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## SlipperFan (Nov 8, 2014)

I'll remember. But no truck goes into the back yard unless one of us is there watching/guiding. Now I'll be doubly watchful. Thanks.


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## Migrant13 (Nov 9, 2014)

The new wall looks great and really accentuates the greenhouse. The GH has that certain majestic Parthenon type look to it.


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## eaborne (Nov 9, 2014)

This is sooooooo exciting!!


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## tomkalina (Nov 9, 2014)

Nicely done, Dot. I'm sure you'll enjoy growing in a modern climate controlled structure. (Although you seem to do really well without one)!


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## SlipperFan (Nov 9, 2014)

Hi Tom, next time you come to Michigan, you should stop by. I'm so pleased to finally be finishing off the landscaping around the greenhouse that I've been enjoying for 4 years.


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## Stone (Nov 9, 2014)

Very nice Dot. What are you planting in the beds?


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## SlipperFan (Nov 10, 2014)

Stone said:


> Very nice Dot. What are you planting in the beds?


Beds???


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## SlipperFan (Nov 10, 2014)

Today progress was made on the retaining wall. I think they also finished leveling-off the stones in the driveway.

The smoke is actually cement dust from cutting the cap-stones to fit the curved corners:




This corner of the wall is finished:




This corner is being completed:




Ready for the pavers:




Hopefully, tomorrow they can get a lot of the pavers down, before the cold and snow coming our way sets in.


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## cnycharles (Nov 10, 2014)

SlipperFan said:


> Beds???



The space between the retaining wall and the greenhouse 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SlipperFan (Nov 10, 2014)

cnycharles said:


> The space between the retaining wall and the greenhouse
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



See post http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=504397&postcount=478

No plants near greenhouse. That space will be pavers for a walkway around the greenhouse for exterior maintenance (like washing windows, access to fan and louvers, etc.


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## Stone (Nov 10, 2014)

SlipperFan said:


> Beds???



The planting area around the G/H.


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## SlipperFan (Nov 10, 2014)

Stone said:


> The planting area around the G/H.



Not a planting area. See post above yours, please.


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## tomkalina (Nov 10, 2014)

Not entirely sure we can do the MOS Palm Sunday show in 2015, but if so - I'd love to visit; not much that can compare to a well landscaped, climate controlled greenhouse.


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## SlipperFan (Nov 11, 2014)

Not much to look at today. But they said they would lay the pavers tomorrow.

Boulders delivered -- to line the drive on the opposite side of the wall:




Show the angle of slope for the paver walkway, a total of 1":




The smoothed finish, preparatory to laying the pavers tomorrow:


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## NYEric (Nov 11, 2014)

SlipperFan said:


> No plants near greenhouse. That space will be pavers for a walkway around the greenhouse for exterior maintenance (like washing windows, access to fan and louvers, etc.


This is how you know they have too much land! oke:


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## abax (Nov 12, 2014)

Oh wow, I love the idea of the big boulders. By gosh, let a truck hit those
things! HA! What a fiiiiiine idea Dot.


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## SlipperFan (Nov 12, 2014)

Today, despite the freezing cold, most of the pavers were placed and filled:





This is pretty close to how it will look when finished:


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## Migrant13 (Nov 12, 2014)

Looking fabulous. Really accentuates the greenhouse.


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## SlipperFan (Nov 13, 2014)

A lot of work was done today, despite the occasional lake-effect snow.

They finished laying the pavers, and also the rocks along the drive:




Notice the big rock on the right, protecting the wall from potential damage by a snow plow.


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## Justin (Nov 13, 2014)

Wow!


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## abax (Nov 14, 2014)

Outstanding Dot. Those guys are goooood. Love the pavers and that random
looking pattern. My rock wall took another hit yesterday by a new UPS delivery
person...new UPS employee, more wall down. Never fails.


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## eOrchids (Nov 14, 2014)

Looks awesome, Dot!


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## cnycharles (Nov 14, 2014)

abax said:


> My rock wall took another hit yesterday by a new UPS delivery
> person...new UPS employee, more wall down. Never fails.



yikes! you should set up a camera and each time someone whacks the wall, submit a bill/video to the parent company. either that or a proximity sensor, and each time someone starts to get too close, a giant foghorn goes off.....


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## 17andgrowing (Nov 14, 2014)

Looking good.


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## abax (Nov 15, 2014)

Charles, there's hardly enough wall left to snitch
about! The elderly gentleman who cut the rock and
placed it died a couple of years ago and was still
working at 87 years old. There's very few artisans
left who can do that kind of work. I feel really badly about the damage.

Actually, we did consider a big air horn, but by the time the air horn scares the hell outta
a driver, the damage has been done.


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## cnycharles (Nov 15, 2014)

Directional land mines! True I had thought that if driver gets surprised may step more on gas and do more damage 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Clark (Nov 15, 2014)

Soooooo many cuts on the walkway!
Those paver saws are screamers!!
Pass the Advil!!!




Nice glitz.
Fine choice of materials.


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## SlipperFan (Nov 15, 2014)

Finished -- almost!

Yesterday, they completed the driveway, adding the top dressing of crushed stones and the cobble stones between the drive and the rock border. They also put in the first layer of polymeric sand in the pavers, to cement them in place. (That's why they still look white-ish). They'll have to come back when the weather is a little warmer to finish filling in with the sand. Finally, they added some good soil, planted grass seed and covered those area with that blue stuff you see to hold it al in place.

Yay!


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## abax (Nov 15, 2014)

That's fantastic. Your guys did a GREAT job. Your greenhouse makes mine
look like an Appalachian shack.

I hear you Charles.


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## eOrchids (Nov 16, 2014)

Love the finished product!


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## Rick (Nov 16, 2014)

It's starting to look like a conservatory Dot.

I'd feel guilty about not paying admission to come and see this in person


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## 17andgrowing (Nov 16, 2014)

Sensational.


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## Ozpaph (Nov 16, 2014)

Thats something to be very proud of.


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## cnycharles (Nov 16, 2014)

pretty nifty! .... do you guys play basketball? I may have to come by and play a few games of 'horse' for divisions


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## SlipperFan (Nov 17, 2014)

abax said:


> That's fantastic. Your guys did a GREAT job. Your greenhouse makes mine look like an Appalachian shack....


I'll bet not!!! But they did do an excellent job. We are impressed -- and it takes a lot to impress my husband!


Rick said:


> It's starting to look like a conservatory Dot.
> 
> I'd feel guilty about not paying admission to come and see this in person


You can come visit anytime, no charge!


cnycharles said:


> pretty nifty! .... do you guys play basketball? I may have to come by and play a few games of 'horse' for divisions


We used to. But arthritis takes it's toll...


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## Stone (Nov 17, 2014)

Very nice finish there Dot. Mine has cracked glass and weeds all around.


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## mormodes (Nov 17, 2014)

Wow. Just wow. Awe.


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## 17andgrowing (Nov 17, 2014)

I wish I was your neighbor.


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## under1630 (Nov 18, 2014)

Just joined the forum, and I'm amazed at the work and time you've put into your greenhouse. Attention to detail is top notch. You should be really proud and you have a place to practice your hobby/business that will bring you a great deal of joy.

Jon


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## SlipperFan (Nov 18, 2014)

Thanks, Jon. It is a tropical paradise, and a dream come true for me.


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## SlipperFan (Aug 27, 2015)

Update:

With a greenhouse, what are all those plants doing outside???!!! Notice almost all have hangers. I spent the better part of one day getting the plants out.





i finally decided to add lights. I've not been getting the blooming that I should have the past couple years, especially with Phrags. So I decided to consult with Little Frog Farm Rob about putting LED lights into the greenhouse. The lights we got are 50 watt LED outdoor floodlights. The electricians who installed them were impressed with their specs. I am impressed with how much light they put out, and how even the spread is. As the days grow shorter, I'm sure the plants will all be happier with extended daylight.









When it was all finished, I took advantage of the empty aisles and gave the greenhouse a good sweeping, and then the better part of a day putting everything back together again.

Thanks, Rob!!!


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## Marco (Aug 27, 2015)

I love it. Now comes the fun part of filling it up!


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## SlipperFan (Aug 27, 2015)

ha ha -- but it's already full! It's just that I took these photos before I brought all the plants back inside.


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## NYEric (Aug 27, 2015)

Congrats! We need a night/light photo.


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## Lanmark (Aug 27, 2015)

How many lights did you install? I think I am seeing 8. Are they all cool white?

Also, the nice thing about these is that not only do the LEDs themselves use far less electricity than other lamp types, they also don't have wattage-sucking ballasts like HID lamps do. People often forget to take into account the energy consumption of said ballasts when calculating their costs of running HID lamps.


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## SlipperFan (Aug 27, 2015)

NYEric said:


> Congrats! We need a night/light photo.


When it gets dark enough to have them on, I'll do that. Right now, days are still long and the lights are not needed.


Lanmark said:


> How many lights did you install? I think I am seeing 8. Are they all cool white?
> 
> Also, the nice thing about these is that not only do the LEDs themselves use far less electricity than other lamp types, they also don't have wattage-sucking ballasts like HID lamps do. People often forget to take into account the energy consumption of said ballasts when calculating their costs of running HID lamps.


Yes, eight: four on each side. The greenhouse is 26 feet long.

That's one of the things that sold me on these lights -- they are daylight white and very energy-efficient. And not as expensive as I expected.

Again, thanks, Rob!


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## SlipperFan (Sep 20, 2015)

At dusk:


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## Ozpaph (Sep 20, 2015)

looks great!


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## Migrant13 (Sep 20, 2015)

Sweet. Really highlights your beautiful greenhouse.


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## Rick (Sep 20, 2015)

That does look great.

AGHH just another improvement to add to mine:sob:


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## Stone (Sep 20, 2015)

Very nice.You very own Tardis!


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## troy (Sep 20, 2015)

Very impressive!!! I'm jealous


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## abax (Sep 20, 2015)

Your greenhouse looks wonderful. Thanks to Rob's excellent information, I now have a row of LEDS over
my Phrags. One of the nice things I've noticed so far is
that there's no big heat projected down onto the plants
and colors look as they actually are.


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## JeanLux (Sep 21, 2015)

The light seems to get evenly on all plants!!!? Jean


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## Justin (Sep 21, 2015)

what a gorgeous greenhouse!!! so jealous!


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## mormodes (Sep 21, 2015)

Back in the day I think it was Herb Hager wrote an article - might have been for the 3rd or4th WOC - about getting Cattleyas from flask to bloom in 2 1/2 yrs. He augmented light in his GH, too, as part of that plan. (I think I'm citing the correct source). I'm pretty sure the article is reproduced or heavily quoted from in Rebecca Northen's 'Home Orchid Growing'. I can't remember if he was shooting for 14 hr days or 16 hr days. There was also an article on installing a photovoltaic cell to turn on or off your lights once sufficient ambient light levels are achieved. But that's probably easier to do with timers.

Apropos of nothing, I was thinking about your aisle placement yesterday, as it got over 100F for the third or fourth time this year. I thought about placing my aisles against the windows - like I believe yours are - so any heat from fans doesn't mass there and overheat plants against the windows. But that would require me to actually do some work, so I forgot about it, LOL!


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## NYEric (Sep 21, 2015)

Looking good. Those lights will help my team find the place one night!  :evil:


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## SlipperFan (Sep 21, 2015)

Mormodes -- yes, the aisles are against the windows and the benches are all in the interior. I've been in too many greenhouses where one didn't have access to open and close the windows without a great deal of difficulty. That was behind my thinking here, and it has worked very well for me.

Eric -- you don't have a key. oke:

Jean -- yes, the light is very even on all the plants. That even surprised me!


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## Bjorn (Sep 22, 2015)

Dot, I envy your house, and how you are able to keep it tidy and clean:clap:
I am growing in a house with loads of lamps both HPS/MH and LED as Power is cheap here and I actually use the lights as the main heat source during winter. The house is well insulated (which means that much light is lost as well so lights are important). Ok to the point; my experience has told me that it is absolutely necessary to combine the lighting with a thermostat so that it cuts power when the temperature exceeds a certain limit. This circuit has failed a couple of times at my place and yes, the plants get fried at some point. Only one time severe, I still have scorched leaves from that incidence But my point is that you need a thermostaticly controlled circuit to control the lights additional to a timer. This is of course if you intend to use the added light as grow light and not just to be able to see what your'e doing during winter evenings


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## SlipperFan (Sep 22, 2015)

Thanks for your advice, Bjorn.

My lights are all LEDs, so very minimal heat will be produced. They are on timers that will extend daylight in the morning and early evening. They won't be on during the day. My heaters are controlled by a photo cell. When there is a certain amount of light, the main heater turns on. If it gets too warm in the greenhouse, thermostatic controls automatically turn on a vent fan and open the ridge vents. That rarely happens in cold weather, but almost every day when we are in the summer months.


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## Bjorn (Sep 23, 2015)

That is a common misconception Dot; that LED give less heat than HPS. They are approximately just as effective in lumen per watt, but the heat is dissipated on the back of the chip and not given off in the direction of the light. When that is said, since LED's are much more directional than eg HPS, the installed wattage normally is lower because more of the emitted light actually reach the plants and consequently the heating is lower. In my house, I have blinded all the vents in order to save on heating (remember we are north of you at 59degrees north and summers are never hot) And have cooling by fans drwaing in fresh air from outside combined with an A/C.
I have played around with the automation incl. using light to steer, but came to the conclusion that a thermostat controlling the light was the best solution.
Nevertheless, good luck with your setup I am certain it will work nicely for you.


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## littlefrog (Sep 23, 2015)

The estimate you always see is that you get 10x more light per watt using LED vs incandescent. I don't think that is actually true, but I'd say those 50W LEDs are about as bright as the 400W MH I used to have.

So even if we assume that every watt of electricity is wasted in the form of heat, she has 8x50W = 400W of heat, and with HID lights that would be at least 8x400 = 2400W of heat. So yes, they put out as much light, but not as much heat. Still put out heat though! 


Mine (of Dot's type) are usually comfortably warm to the touch. I wouldn't try touching the MH bulbs I used to have! I don't suggest anybody do that.



Looks great, Dot!


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## eOrchids (Sep 23, 2015)

Absolute stunning greenhouse, Dot!


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## Bjorn (Sep 24, 2015)

So what about this: A HPS lamp of 400W is frequently rated higher than 50000 lumens. that is 125 lumens per W. Indeed a very good number for a LED as well. The radiation may be more useful from LED but the amount of light is not very different. I build my own LED panels based on Cree chips, and cooling gets very important. Due to cooling difficulties I have had to restrict to 200-300W, even with fan. But I like the LED for certain purposes, one is that they are so directional and does not necessarily need a reflector. The other thing is that it is possible to have a natural ligth color, which of course is not available with HPS. MH yes bot then the efficiency and life span gets reduced.


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## naoki (Sep 24, 2015)

Bjorn, if you switch on and off HPS, doesn't it influence the life of bulbs and ballasts quite a bit?

Bjorn and Rob, I quote this paper frequently, but here is actual comparison of efficiency (table 3).

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0099010

As Bjorn said, the efficiency of the top HPS is similar to the top LED. But majority of LEDs have lower efficiency than HPS. If you do DIY LED, you can squeeze out the efficiency.

I've also wondered about the heat issue. I've never used HPS, but it seems to be hot compared to the LED with the same input watt. The input energy goes either to light or heat, so if the efficiency is similar, they should release the same amount of heat. But one thing that I may be missing in this way of thinking is that photons with different wavelengths have different energy levels. The efficiency of both best HPS and LED is around 1.7 micromol/s/W (=micromol/J). However, the emission spectra is different, actual energy used to produce the same 1.7 micromol of photons is different. For example, using an extreme case, let's say LED uses all Blue. HPS emission peak is around yellow. 1 blue photon requires more energy production than yellow photon. So even if they both get the same photon efficiency, LED is converting more energy to light and less energy to heat than HPS. But in reality, those top level LEDs use lots of red, which has lower energy than yellow. So it is still puzzling why LED seems to be cooler.

To compare the heat emission of LED vs HID, we need the efficiency in terms of emitted light watt per given input watt (instead of photon efficency or lumen efficacy).


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## Bjorn (Sep 25, 2015)

Sure naoki, it may wear the ballsts and bulbs, but after a couple of years using it as a kind of heater, I am not that worried about it anymore. Seems to take it well. Nice paper btw giving a balanced presentation. But, since its the number of photons that Count, will not red wawelengths yield more? Also instead of hijacking Dots thread, why do we not make our own LED or resurrect one of the older LED threads?


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## naoki (Sep 25, 2015)

That's true, sorry Dot!


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## SlipperFan (Sep 27, 2015)

Not a problem, naoki. But I'm glad you have a new thread on this topic -- it does deserve its own thread. It will be much easier for someone to research.


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## Kostas (Sep 28, 2015)

I just finished reading your thread from the start. What an awesome experience you are having there and i am very impressed with the quality, the efficiency and the cleanliness of everything in there. You sure put in a lot of effort on it!!!

Towards the initial phase of the greenhouse where you just moved the plants in, i see some pretty large Paphiopedilum with wide, dark coloured, mottled leafs. What are they?

You have many impressive orchids there and i am sure they will only grow to be more impressive in your growing environment!

Do you think Phragmipedium need especially high air circulation to do well and you added a bench for some of them? Do you find they need higher light intensity for blooming or more hours of light, even if of lower intensity? Most interested on P. kovachii's whims  

I am about to get me new land for a house and i will definitely be putting an atrium in the design. I will opt for in ground growing of tropical cycads/ferns/aroids/short palms/extreme tropical fruit trees and an epiphyte wall, rocks and thick dead tree trunk or a live tree for epiphyte and lithophyte growing(orchids/bromeliads/ferns/aroids), all around a comfy sitting area/dining table. Thats the plan at least...i, too, won't believe its happening when i hope it does...


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## SlipperFan (Sep 28, 2015)

Good luck with your plans, Kostas -- they sound fantastic. What a great growing/living space you will have!

Yes, I think Phrags need high air circulation. I think being able to see the leaves move a little in the breeze helps with erwinia, especially, My plants are probably too close together, but I can't seem to say "no" when it comes to purchasing another good plant.

As for light, when I had all my Phrags under lights in the house, before I built the greenhouse, I had very good blooming. I did not add lights when I built the greenhouse, which I now think was a mistake because Phrags, especially, haven't been blooming well, or at all, for the past couple years. That's why I've added lights. So I'll be able to tell you about blooming in about a year. I think Phrags need bright light, but not direct sun. I think my problem was too short a day with light during the winter months. That would be duration more than intensity.


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## Kostas (Sep 29, 2015)

Yeah, i have been dreaming about this for a while. I look forward to growing my tropical Zamia sp. to perfection. Otherwise i can grow most of what i like outdoors, and i do.

Haha, i see what you mean. I have my fair share of monster size growing seedlings here that i actually hope to ground plant one day... 

I try to offer mine as much as i can indoors and i crack a couple windows open to form a light breeze. It helps dry a dehiscing leaf faster and not risk rot. I watch them carefully till i know they are adapted and like things here.
I am giving them bright light as much as i can(no sun though as the other plants nearby don't want it) and they get room lighting for more hours of the day, so photoperiod shouldn't be a problem. I am growing them in a room with northeast and northwest facing windows, so the days in the dead of the winter are somewhat darker, though we get like 300days of unblocked(no cloud cover) sun a year, so the ambient light from the window is bright in general.
Wish you to get abundant blooming next year 

P.s.: I saw some very beautiful Paphiopedilium with big and wide dark reddish/black mottled leafs in some of your earlier greenhouse pictures. What are they? I love how big and dark foliaged they are.


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## Wendy (Sep 29, 2015)

I can't believe that in all these years I have actually missed this thread.  Finally found it and read it all....WOW! You have such a nice greenhouse Dot. A few years late, but congratulations on having this come together so well. It's amazing! :clap::clap:


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## SlipperFan (Sep 30, 2015)

Thanks, Wendy. It truly is a dream come true. 

Kostas, I have no idea which one you mean. Can you direct me to the page/photo?


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## NYEric (Sep 30, 2015)

SlipperFan said:


> My plants are probably too close together, but I can't seem to say "no" when it comes to purchasing another good plant.



:rollhappy:
Hahhahhahahhahaaa!


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## SlipperFan (Oct 11, 2015)

Some recent spots of color:


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## fibre (Oct 12, 2015)

Orchid paradise!


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## NYEric (Oct 12, 2015)

Cool!


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## Migrant13 (Oct 12, 2015)

Just an appetizer I am sure of the blooming banquet ahead.


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## tomkalina (Oct 12, 2015)

Looks like a great environment, Dot!


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## abax (Oct 13, 2015)

Dream a little dream with me...


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## SlipperFan (Oct 17, 2015)

Morning light:


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## Kostas (Oct 17, 2015)

Very nice!


Page 29, 2nd image, center, dark plant for example. Maybe lighting? Not sure, it's dark in many photos


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## gego (Oct 17, 2015)

Beautiful!!!!!!. I can stay there with my coffee the whole morning. Paradise.


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## SlipperFan (Oct 17, 2015)

Kostas said:


> Very nice!
> 
> 
> Page 29, 2nd image, center, dark plant for example. Maybe lighting? Not sure, it's dark in many photos



It does have dark leaves. It is Psychopsis Kalihi.


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## 17andgrowing (Oct 18, 2015)

Looks like a post card. Very nice photo.


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## SlipperFan (Nov 21, 2015)

Orchid's view of the snow storm we are having today:













View of the Greenhouse:


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## Ozpaph (Nov 21, 2015)

I miss snow, sort of.
It was near 100F, here, yesterday.................


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## Denver (Nov 21, 2015)

It is almost more beautiful with the snow. It most be so nice to have your tropical retreat...


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## SlipperFan (Nov 21, 2015)

Denver said:


> It is almost more beautiful with the snow. It most be so nice to have your tropical retreat...



That's exactly what I said to my hubby as I headed toward the greenhouse this afternoon--my tropical retreat.


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## Marco (Nov 21, 2015)

Spectabile is one of my favorite dends.

Thanks!


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## JeanLux (Nov 22, 2015)

Lovely photos and lots of snow :-( !!!! Jean


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## Brabantia (Nov 22, 2015)

Snow has also its charm. Nice pictures!


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## Clark (Nov 22, 2015)

I can't believe how much you got already.
Is this the norm for your area, a good storm before Thanksgiving?


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## 17andgrowing (Nov 22, 2015)

I hate snow.


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## Linus_Cello (Nov 23, 2015)

17andgrowing said:


> I hate snow.



AGreed. It's only good for snow days (no school/work).


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## NYEric (Nov 23, 2015)

What the Hel...?!? Is that from this year?!


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## troy (Nov 23, 2015)

50 gallon drums + snow = free good water


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## NYEric (Nov 23, 2015)

This is for those who do not pay a water bill. 
Yes, at a 1:10 +/- ratio that is 5 gallons/drum. At the cost of filling a 50 Gallon drum = buy an R.O. filter system.


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## SlipperFan (Nov 23, 2015)

Clark said:


> I can't believe how much you got already.
> Is this the norm for your area, a good storm before Thanksgiving?


Not the norm, but not that unheard of, either. Here is Thanksgiving day here in 20 
http://wacoustabarnetts.com/Barnett_2004/Barnett_2004-4.html


17andgrowing said:


> I hate snow.


It's pretty for the first snowfall. After that, it just gets tedious.


NYEric said:


> What the Hel...?!? Is that from this year?!


Yup -- just one day in the life of a Michiganer.


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## Lanmark (Nov 23, 2015)

We got dumped on too, Dot. I don't think I could survive these winters without the flowers my plants produce all winter long.


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## cnycharles (Nov 23, 2015)

Nice! I saw the lake effect sweeping Michigan today on weather radar


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## NYEric (Nov 23, 2015)

Hideous!


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## adiaphane (Jul 29, 2016)

What a beautiful, beautiful place you have. I bookmarked this so I can look through this for inspiration. Some day I hope to have a place like yours.


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## SlipperFan (Jul 29, 2016)

adiaphane said:


> What a beautiful, beautiful place you have. I bookmarked this so I can look through this for inspiration. Some day I hope to have a place like yours.



Thanks! As I mentioned in another thread, I waited many years before I could afford this GH, and I love every minute in it!


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