# Parvisepalum specific culture questions



## PHRAG (Jun 23, 2006)

Ok, so I am knee deep into a Parvi buying spree. I have a couple of questions already...

How much light do these need? More than phrag? 

Should I buy some oyster shell calcium supplement to put in the S/H media? Do parvi hybrids like Ho Chi Minh and Magic Lantern even need this?

I am watering my phals every four days, so the mix doesn't completely dry out but it gets close. Is this how I should water my Paphs?

Thats all I can think of for now, but if anyone has some suggestions or tips for growing these in S/H I would love to hear them.


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## Rick (Jun 23, 2006)

It can be a little tough to generallize about all parvis, probably easier to generallize with the hybrids.

As far as light goes, phal light (or slightly brighter) is fine for summer, but should be brighter in winter. Because Tennessee winters are fairly dark and cloudy, I add supplemental lights in the greenhouse over my parvies. Noteably micranthum and armeniacum

Water more heavily during warm and summer times than winter. The high elevation, more northern parvis (micrantum and armeniacum) come from areas that actually frost or snow in the winter, and like cooler/dryer winter conditions.

Except for delanatii, all the other parvis are calcareous, and do good with oyster shell in my mix, but I've never kept any in SH so I can't vouch for the practice there. Also because of the stoloniferous habit of some of these guys I grow them in baskets.

Just guessing but delanatii, and maybe maliopoense would be a good candidates for SH.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jun 23, 2006)

OK....parvi treatment depends on the species. armeniacum likes strong light, especially in winter...definitely at least as much as a phrag. Certainly in winter they can take full sun. Wet in summer, dry and cool in winter. delanatii takes bright light, but not direct sun...wet in summer...and, well, wet in winter is good too. Very different culture from the other parvi's..grow it like a phrag (but don't let it sit in water). I give it the same mix that I use on phrags....fine bark, sponge rock, NZ sphagnum...the only paph I still grow in bark. Micranthum is like armeniacum, but less light. It can tolerate sun during winter, but shade it during the summer. Malipoense gets even more shade....and I have heard that they should be watered very heavily in the summer... emersonii can be treated in pretty much the same way as micranthum...(I can't speak yet for vietnamense, hangianum, or jackii....for obvious reasons...but from what I have read, conditions should not be different from the others...there is a good article in the latest OD about hangianum culture) except for delanatii, all parvi's should be dry in winter....and cool. In terms of ease of culture, delanatii is the easiest to both grow and bloom. armeniacum and malipoense are easy to grow, particularly malipoense, but hard to bloom. emersonii is easy to bloom, hard to grow..its slow as **** and has a charming tendency to die a year after blooming. micranthum is neither easy to bloom nor easy to grow...but not the hardest of paphs either...the buds have a very nasty tendency to blast just when you think you can trust them. Hybrids are very variable..some are easy to grow and bloom, others are not...and that goes for different clones within the same cross....but at least their cultural requirements are more in line with most paphs. Take care, Eric


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## PHRAG (Jun 23, 2006)

Sorry guys, I should have been more specific. I am not at all brave enough to try species parvi's. I am going to start with some hybrids first to cut my teeth on paphs.

I can find all kinds of culture information for species parvi's, but it doesn't translate when I am growing hybrids with delenatii and micranthum, or malipoense and delenatii. And added to that, the culture information I have found is similiar to "this species grows under shady trees but likes bright indirect light" type statements which don't translate well to greenhouse or window culture.


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## PHRAG (Jun 23, 2006)

These are the crosses I have, or will have shortly...

Magic Lantern (micranthum x delenatii)
Ho Chi Minh (vietnamense x delenatii)
Lynleigh Koopowitz (delanatii x malipoense)
Envy Green (malipoense x primulinum)
Memoria Larry Heuer (malipoense x emersonii)

It might be harder to generalize care for these, especially those with delenatii. Any suggestions?


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## Jmoney (Jun 23, 2006)

standard paph care should suffice for these; most from these crosses should be easygoing. bright diffuse light, even moisture, intermediate temps.


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## PHRAG (Jun 24, 2006)

Jmoney said:



> standard paph care should suffice for these; most from these crosses should be easygoing. bright diffuse light, even moisture, intermediate temps.


 
That is what I was hoping for since I grow all my orchids that way!  

On one hand, I really want to try to cater more to the specific needs of all my different types of orchids. On the other hand, I want to treat them all the same and the plants that don't die will become my favorites. Kind of a "throw it at the wall and see what sticks" approach. I guess the real joy of growing orchids comes in finding a balance between the two.

Do you think I should give the above hybrids a winter chill and dry spell?


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## Jmoney (Jun 24, 2006)

I suppose a winter chill won't hurt if the plants are blooming-size. however, a normal day/night differential oughta suffice. I haven't heard of these plants being particularly hard to bloom (unlike some of the species).


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## Jon in SW Ohio (Jun 24, 2006)

Should have gotten a roth...oke: 

I have had no reason to treat parvi hybrids different than any other paphs I grow. Don't keep them too wet and don't let the leaves stay wet. Parvis and Brachys get basal rot VERY easily, so water carefully.

I personally have never added calcium to any paph and have never had any problems growing or blooming them, and I almost never fertilize...again that's just me. Keep the plant dry and the roots wet and you should have minimal trouble. Keep the humidity high with good air movement on developing buds and they usually don't blast, just avoid sudden fluctuations so you don't stress them.

Jon
________
Honda Rincon history


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jun 24, 2006)

All of those hybrids should be easy to grow under normal paph conditions...I'm sure all would benefit from a winter chill. As I had mentioned before, the ease of bloom varies individually with the clones...within a cross, some clones will bloom yearly, some when they feel like it, some not at all. Crosses with delanatii are generally the easiest to bloom, and don't require the phrag-like treatment that delanatii itself seems to require. In terms of appearance, parvi x parvi crosses range from beautiful to ordinary...fortunately, rarely ugly. parvi x cochlopetalum crosses are generally successful, can be easy to bloom (but not always ..) and generally quite attractive...and also monotonous. Parvi x coryopetalum I won't get into..life's too short....parvi x brachypetalum....well, the best are definitely the best...really gorgeous...but you do also get the chance of something totally hideous. I once saw a cross of vietnamense x bellatulum...the all time ugliest (excluding deformed monsters) paph I have ever seen...small, cupped, with a cubic pouch...yes, it was square, shaped like a cube...Take care, Eric


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## lienluu (Jun 24, 2006)

This is the ugliest parvi x brachy i've ever bloomed. It's Kevin Porter and I waited and waited for it to finish opening to see how even more hideous it could get, but it never did.


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## PHRAG (Jun 24, 2006)

You should sell it on ebay as "Paph. Abstractaca - Very rare specimen". With all the nuts on there spending money on non-rare "rare" plants, you'd make a killing.


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## SlipperFan (Jun 24, 2006)

I had a multifloral that bloomed like that. I think (hope) that it was stressed in shipment, and that's what happened shortly after I received it.


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## L I Jane (Jun 26, 2006)

Lien, was this Kevin Porter's 1st blooming? Maybe next time it will be a swan?


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## silence882 (Jun 27, 2006)

Here's my way-late parvi rant:

*Medium*
I currently use fine CHC, perlite, and charcoal. I used to use a bark-based mix, but I like the water-retention characteristics of CHC. I topdress the parvis heavily with crushed oyster shell (except for P. delenatii, which grows on a volcanic substrate).

*Temps*
I grow mine in the intermediate range. I would like to give them a cool period in the winter, but I grow indoors and that can be hard to do. The exception to this is P. micranthum, which needs to be grown almost cold. A few winter weeks with night temps of 3-5 C and a cool summer with highs not exceeding 22 C would be ideal.

*Light/Water*
The parvis grows about 22-27 degrees N latitude. This results in only about a 3-hour max difference in day length between winter and summer. This area is subject to May-October monsoons that keep the skies overcast and the light levels low almost constantly. During the winter the monsoon abates, moisture drops and the sun comes out.
I try to mimic these conditions by keeping the plants cooler, brighter, and drier in the winter. During the summer, I keep them wetter, dimmer, and warmer. It seems counter-intuitive since I'm used to living at a latitude where the amount of light is dictated more by day-length than by weather.

--Stephen


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## PHRAG (Jun 27, 2006)

Thanks for that Stephen. Now if I could just get them all in. Ordering is so slow. Why can't I live closer to a nursery?


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## Heather (Jun 27, 2006)

L I Jane said:


> Lien, was this Kevin Porter's 1st blooming? Maybe next time it will be a swan?



ohh...I don't think there will be a next time for this one....ity: 
R.I.P.


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## wonderlen3000 (Apr 8, 2007)

What about emersonii???? I heard it doesn't require the chill in winter to initiate the bud. I don't see the plant offer much in Paph. vender!


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## Bob Wellenstein (Apr 8, 2007)

To be plain spoken, if you've already killed 4 or 5 armeniacums and micranthums each, which are not terribly difficult to grow, you should give the very limited population of emersoniis in cultivation a wait until you've improved your level of skills. They are far more difficult to grow, slow to grow, and are rarely being artificially propagated so I suspect most of the replacement stock is being collected/smuggled.


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## PHRAG (Apr 8, 2007)

I don't even grow these anymore. In the future, it might be better to start a new thread instead of bringing up an outdated topic.


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## bwester (Apr 8, 2007)

i very much agree with Bob on this one, give it a bit of time before tackling a potentially expensive plant you might kill.


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## Hien (Apr 9, 2007)

Bob Wellenstein said:


> To be plain spoken, if you've already killed 4 or 5 armeniacums and micranthums each, which are not terribly difficult to grow, you should give the very limited population of emersoniis in cultivation a wait until you've improved your level of skills. They are far more difficult to grow, slow to grow, and are rarely being artificially propagated so I suspect most of the replacement stock is being collected/smuggled.



Bob,
I think last year Orchid Inn still have them, the cross is:
Paph. emersonii x sib ('Chico' x 'San Leandro') 
If you look at emersonii the way manufacturer produce goods, they want the products to only be good enough & will breakdown after certain length of time, so the customers will buy new replacement. 
Then it could be the best product in the paph world, something peoples want, but have to replace every few years.


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## Parvi (Apr 9, 2007)

*micranthum culture*

There are many different varieties of micranthums that are found growing at different elevations in the wild from 600m probably up to 1100m which in my opinion is why some are easier to flower than others.

I have always found the larger and darker flowers are the easiest to flower which could indicate that it is micranthum var. micranthum which tends to grow at the lowest elevation.

Heather is correct with the drop in temperature in winter! I generally try to lower the temp to about 4 Celsius, keep the plants dryer than normal and really increase the light; this is similar to the conditions in the wild during the winter. 

Hopefully you will see your bud from the end of winter to the beginning of spring appearing!

In my opinion people fail with some of the Parvi species because they are some what scared to really lower that temp and wack up the light! Trust me it does produce buds!


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## Bolero (Apr 9, 2007)

PHRAG said:


> These are the crosses I have, or will have shortly...
> 
> Magic Lantern (micranthum x delenatii)
> Ho Chi Minh (vietnamense x delenatii)
> ...



This is a most interesting thread, I am gaining a lot from it. Oh and by the way I have 4 of the above listed hybrids so we will have stuff to discuss in the future!!!


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## lienluu (Apr 9, 2007)

Hien said:


> Orchid Inn still have them, the cross is:
> Paph. emersonii x sib ('Chico' x 'San Leandro')



You're right, Sam did have some of those available last year, but they sold out quickly. I bought a few and they are really fast growing, much faster than any other P. emersonii i have. I am hoping some of those will bloom this year or next.


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## Bob Wellenstein (Apr 9, 2007)

Sorry, Hien, but apparently I will never be a successful orchid businessman as I will not view Paph species as a commodity (and I know that your comment was not fully serious, however the commodity attitude does seem to pervade the community these days). Not sure that I fit into the scheme of things these days.


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## NYEric (Apr 9, 2007)

Everything is a commodity. Look at how leaders throughout history have even decided that Lives could be thrown at enemies to result in an overall outcome. Of course there are valuable commodities, but everything can be looked at from the view of what its worth and and what its investent or disinvestment will result in. I dont believe Orchid vendors view 'planned obselecense' as a criteria for selling plants, they're just trying to getr the products out and make money. [That is the reason people go into business!]


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## Hien (Apr 9, 2007)

Bob Wellenstein said:


> Sorry, Hien, but apparently I will never be a successful orchid businessman as I will not view Paph species as a commodity (and I know that your comment was not fully serious, however the commodity attitude does seem to pervade the community these days). Not sure that I fit into the scheme of things these days.


 I know you would get my funny thought On the serious side, things used to last a lot longer in the old days.:sob: .

Lien,
Maybe his breeding has made the species a little more vigorous and grower friendly.

Eric, isn't that sad, that lives are lost for the profit of a few. I wonder if those peoples could really sleep at night thinking about some poor soldiers' wife & mother.


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## wonderlen3000 (Apr 9, 2007)

I know. I had given up growing parvi for a while now. Now i'm concentrating more on the barbata and insignis group, which i have way more success.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Apr 9, 2007)

Breeding has definitely had its effects on parvis's. It made delanatii an easy plant to grow and bloom. It seems to me, and I've posted this before, although no one has ever confirmed or denied it, that armeniacum and micranthum no longer seem to be stoloniferous. Years ago, those plants would be all over the place, coming out the drainage holes, everywhere. Now they grow neatly and contained. Supposedly easier to bloom...but my only concession there is that I can now get micranthum to bud...but it still blasts. Emersonii is still slow as *%$#, and a truly sucidal plant, but it (in its lifetime) has proven easy to both bud and bloom. Of course, I'm hoping to find a new one now...Take care, Eric


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## Candace (Apr 9, 2007)

What is it about emersonii? I've never heard that they were tricky to grow. Do they rot easy? I don't own one, but would like to eventually.


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## smartie2000 (Apr 9, 2007)

I know that they grow slowly........................


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Apr 9, 2007)

P. emersonii grows slowly, and , in my experience, blooms easily. Unfortunately, in my experience, after bloom it shuts down and doesn't grow at all. Then, several months later, it just dies...top dies, roots seem to hold up. No prolonged death, no signs of sufferring...one day the leaves just fall off, dead at the base, otherwise looking fine. I find that bellatulum also dies in a similar way, with good roots and dead leaves, but at least bellatulum gives you the courtesy of letting you know that its going to die, and then drags out its death for way too long, like a bad actor.....Take care, Eric


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