# West Palm Beach Judging



## Drorchid (Oct 23, 2014)

Just noticed a plant got awarded with an HCC/AOS, and was labeled as Phragmipedium caricinum 'WS Antoinette' HCC/AOS. It is clearly NOT a caricinum (looks more like some kind of longifolium or longifolium hybrid...)

What is wrong with Judges....don't they know how to ID plants anymore??

http://angraecums.blogspot.com/p/west-palm-beach-judging-center-wpbjc.html

Robert


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## NYEric (Oct 23, 2014)

I guess not.


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## Linus_Cello (Oct 23, 2014)

Who cares about the Antoinette... how do I get a piece of the Phrag. Mariza Rolando!


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## Drorchid (Oct 23, 2014)

Linus_Cello said:


> Who cares about the Antoinette... how do I get a piece of the Phrag. Mariza Rolando!



Actually that is how I found this caricinum picture. I was doing a google search for Phrag. Mariza Rolando (=Hanne Popow x kovachii), and yes I agree it is a beauty! The reason I did a google search, is that I just remade this cross using one of our 4N Phrag. Hanne Popow's (Hanne Popow 'War Eagle' AM/AOS from the Eric Young Foundation). It is probably the largest Hanne Popow I have ever seen! Combined with a kovachii, it should make a super hybrid!





Robert


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## Linus_Cello (Oct 23, 2014)

let us know when seedlings of Mariza Rolando are available!


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## eteson (Oct 23, 2014)

Robert you are right it seems to me a Elfin Touch (Green Hornet x hirtzii)...
Linus I care about this kind of things... because some of this wrongly labelled plants can be breed and it will be a big confusion. And this is more likely when the plant receives an AOS


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## Drorchid (Oct 23, 2014)

eteson said:


> Robert you are right it seems to me a Elfin Touch (Green Hornet x hirtzii)...
> Linus I care about this kind of things... because some of this wrongly labelled plants can be breed and it will be a big confusion. And this is more likely when the plant receives an AOS



I am with you!!

Robert


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## aquacorps (Oct 23, 2014)

Robert, A few years ago friends and I brought some paph species for judging in San Francisco. A judge felt it was a hybrid. He claimed to be a taxonomist. I wrote a letter to the then AOS president, Carols F., about the insanity we experienced at judging. To his credit he had a Dr. Krauss reach out to me. Krauss was then head of judging. Krauss listened to the judge and offered me the opportunity to register the "hybrid" in my name. *This was suggested by the judge/taxonomist* Paph Russ Palmer!!!! I pointed out to Dr. Krauss the hybrid he wanted me to register was registered in the 1890's, plus I already had a plant named after me. Krauss to his credit admitted he looked stupid in suggesting I re-register a plant from the 1890's. After that I gave up on anything to do with the AOS. The AOS in my opinion is a joke. I do have the emails somewhere. Russ palmer


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## tomkalina (Oct 23, 2014)

Sad.......


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## SlipperFan (Oct 23, 2014)

tomkalina said:


> Sad.......



Stupid, even...


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## cnycharles (Oct 23, 2014)

The judges in this area IME have been pretty good


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## abax (Oct 23, 2014)

..., but typical of AOS judging these days.


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## paphioland (Oct 24, 2014)

That lady Isabel is questionable at best. AOS judging = joke.


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## paphioland (Oct 24, 2014)

Man that lady Isabel is not even nice. Are they serious?


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## PaphMadMan (Oct 24, 2014)

I assume the Cattleytonia type labeled as Vanda Alberta Rubio 'Midnight Delight' AM/AOS is just a mislabeled photo. At least I hope AOS judges aren't that far off in their identification skills.


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## Lordoftheswarms (Oct 24, 2014)

PaphMadMan said:


> I assume the Cattleytonia type labeled as Vanda Alberta Rubio 'Midnight Delight' AM/AOS is just a mislabeled photo. At least I hope AOS judges aren't that far off in their identification skills.



I noticed that too.


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## Drorchid (Oct 24, 2014)

paphioland said:


> That lady Isabel is questionable at best. AOS judging = joke.



I agree with you on that one! Also I noticed they gave the Phrag. Suzanne Decker an AM/AOS. Also a total joke. The form is terrible with twisted petals. 

Robert


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## Drorchid (Oct 24, 2014)

Another oddity, The Phrag. April Fool 'Fool's Gold' that I posted earlier, we have taken that plant probably 4 times to judging. I think it is probably THE best Phrag. April Fool that I have ever seen, and a fast improvement over Phrag. Cardinale. The judges have never considered it "Good Enough" for an AOS award...go figure...And they give an AM/AOS to that Paph. Lady Isabel and Phrag. Suzanne Decker?? That tells you that there is something wrong with the current Judging system, it is too much in "The Eye of the Beholder" and depends too much on personal preferences of certain Judges (I am not saying every Judge is that way)...

Robert


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## couscous74 (Oct 24, 2014)

It's Florida...


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## Justin (Oct 24, 2014)

agree on the lady isabel. it is just a photo but not AM level in my eyes.


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## Drorchid (Oct 24, 2014)

eteson said:


> Robert you are right it seems to me a Elfin Touch (Green Hornet x hirtzii)...
> Linus I care about this kind of things... because some of this wrongly labelled plants can be breed and it will be a big confusion. And this is more likely when the plant receives an AOS



It could also be a Phrag. (hirtzii x longifolium) either as a man made cross, or as the natural hybrid Phrag. x roethianum, http://phragweb.slipperaceae.info/p...rue&detail=True&habitat=False&botanical=False

or the other possibility is Phrag. christiansenianum.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/P...Phragmipedium_christiansenianum_Orchi_088.jpg

I definitely can tell it is related to Phrag. longifolium, but those twisted petals throw me off... Do you (or anyone else) have a picture of Phrag. Elfin Touch? I couldn't find any on the internet..

Robert


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## phrag guy (Oct 24, 2014)

Drorchid said:


> It could also be a Phrag. (hirtzii x longifolium) either as a man made cross, or as the natural hybrid Phrag. x roethianum, http://phragweb.slipperaceae.info/p...rue&detail=True&habitat=False&botanical=False
> 
> or the other possibility is Phrag. christiansenianum.
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/P...Phragmipedium_christiansenianum_Orchi_088.jpg
> ...










Here are a couple


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## Drorchid (Oct 24, 2014)

Thanks Russel! Yes, it does look like that hybrid! The other possibility, is that it could be the parent, Phrag. Green Hornet. With these longifolium hybrids, it is sometimes hard to distinguish between them, especially if they are mislabeled and have other plants related to longifolium like hirtzii and or christiansenianum in the background...Also, it doesn't help, that longifolium itself is so variable (especially as hartwegii, gracile and hinksianum and other varieties are or were at one time also considered longifolium).
Robert


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## Linus_Cello (Oct 24, 2014)

couscous74 said:


> It's Florida...



"The Orchid Thief" suggests vanda bias...


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## Erythrone (Oct 24, 2014)

Drorchid said:


> I agree with you on that one! Also I noticed they gave the Phrag. Suzanne Decker an AM/AOS. Also a total joke. The form is terrible with twisted petals.
> 
> Robert



I agree....


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## NYEric (Oct 24, 2014)

The problem is that some judges don't know Phrags as well as others, (judges and orchid families).


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## mormodes (Oct 25, 2014)

I'm sure y'all will point these out to Frank Smith when you are at his GH for the Paph meeting.


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