# New seedlings



## Carper (Jun 22, 2016)

After a good search finally got hold of 3 flasks I've been after for a while. At one of the biggest shows in the UK, my order of Paph randsii, paph adductum and paph anitum finally arrived. Can say that I'm very pleased with all the flasks and have now potted them up in small orchiata after a soak in kelpmax. All look very healthy especially the adductum. A bit surprised to find after deflasking that some of the seedlings had between 2 & 5 growths. These didn't look like separate seedlings but part of the one growth with very good root systems. I didn't and would not have been able to separate these so potted them up as they were in the flask. Will possibly not feed for a few weeks but then very weak with a few doses of kelpmax along the way.

Gary 
UK


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## JAB (Jun 22, 2016)

Very nice!


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## SlipperFan (Jun 22, 2016)

They look great!


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## Migrant13 (Jun 22, 2016)

They are off to a fantastic start!


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## abax (Jun 22, 2016)

Outstanding younguns'. I'd love to see the growth progression of these seedlings.


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## orchidman77 (Jun 23, 2016)

Best of luck with your little ones! They look great. 

David


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## Bjorn (Jun 23, 2016)

From where? 
B


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## Carper (Jun 23, 2016)

Bjorn said:


> From where?
> B



I had the randsii from Hilmar Bauch at Assendorfer from Germany. The other 2 were from Hsiao at In Charm, Taiwan.

Gary


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## Bjorn (Jun 24, 2016)

So Hilmar has randsii seedlings? I have some that I got from Taiwan (HS) in 2012. They grew slowly but did not take-off until I sprayed them with mancozeb. Then, suddenly a spurt of growth and sice then they have been growing at a steady, albeit not fast, speed. One of them starts with a side-shoot now so probably something is going to happen within a few years. Your anitum and adductum looks similar to some that I got from HS this spring, perhaps its the same source? Glass bottles, right?
I cannot give any hints regarding the adductum/anitum, just that I have problems growing them.
Good Luck!


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## SlipperKing (Jun 24, 2016)

Good stuff Gary


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## JAB (Jun 24, 2016)

Bjorn
What is Mancozeb?


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## Paphman910 (Jun 24, 2016)

Mancozeb is a fungicide and is called Dithane.


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## Bjorn (Jun 24, 2016)

JAB said:


> Bjorn
> What is Mancozeb?



dithane, contains extra zinc and manganese


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## Carper (Jun 24, 2016)

Bjorn said:


> So Hilmar has randsii seedlings? I have some that I got from Taiwan (HS) in 2012. They grew slowly but did not take-off until I sprayed them with mancozeb. Then, suddenly a spurt of growth and sice then they have been growing at a steady, albeit not fast, speed. One of them starts with a side-shoot now so probably something is going to happen within a few years. Your anitum and adductum looks similar to some that I got from HS this spring, perhaps its the same source? Glass bottles, right?
> I cannot give any hints regarding the adductum/anitum, just that I have problems growing them.
> Good Luck!



Bjorn, 

I think the anitum were obtained from HS as Hsiao did not have any. However, the adductum were his. I have been told many struggle with these but that's a challenge. The randsii apparently was the last flask of a selfing of his awarded plant. I'm expecting slow growth but hopefully I can settle them in and get through the first few months. Do you keep yours fairly wet or do you let them dry between waterings? 

Gary


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## Justin (Jun 24, 2016)

They look fantastic. Both adductum and anitum like to stay very moist at the roots.


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## Bjorn (Jun 25, 2016)

Carper said:


> Bjorn,
> 
> I think the anitum were obtained from HS as Hsiao did not have any. However, the adductum were his. I have been told many struggle with these but that's a challenge. The randsii apparently was the last flask of a selfing of his awarded plant. I'm expecting slow growth but hopefully I can settle them in and get through the first few months. Do you keep yours fairly wet or do you let them dry between waterings?
> 
> Gary



Gary, there is a chance that the randsii will grow faster than regular since they are 'domesticated' . But mine were pretty slow to begin with. Now, they are quite sizeable, some 20-30cm LS. Still have 5-10 of them, some were lost to rot of course. I never let the paphs dry out mine are always wet. Except for those requiring a dry rest of course. Be careful with the randsiis, they do not have extensive root systems, at least mine do not, so it may be a good idea with early pot, up. I never do it myself though, always a year at least in community flats. Sometimes that turns ot to be a bad idea, as with a flat of sanderianum I pottet up, never seen such brittle roots. Killed half of them even if I tried to be careful. Well lesson learned and who needs 15 sanderianum?
Good luck, keep us posted:clap:


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## Ozpaph (Jun 25, 2016)

looking good


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## Carper (Jun 25, 2016)

Bjorn said:


> Gary, there is a chance that the randsii will grow faster than regular since they are 'domesticated' . But mine were pretty slow to begin with. Now, they are quite sizeable, some 20-30cm LS. Still have 5-10 of them, some were lost to rot of course. I never let the paphs dry out mine are always wet. Except for those requiring a dry rest of course. Be careful with the randsiis, they do not have extensive root systems, at least mine do not, so it may be a good idea with early pot, up. I never do it myself though, always a year at least in community flats. Sometimes that turns ot to be a bad idea, as with a flat of sanderianum I pottet up, never seen such brittle roots. Killed half of them even if I tried to be careful. Well lesson learned and who needs 15 sanderianum?
> Good luck, keep us posted:clap:



Apparently, the randsii are only about a year old so hopefully they will be faster. I was advised by Hilmar that he would and they do pot up individually and not as compots. So this is what I've done. I had a go at several flasks last year for the first time including sanderianum, fairreanum and kolopakingii and potted them in individually and they seem happy enough. I also thought about the problems of separating, problems with roots etc and it worked for me. Now I can just "pot on" like I always do with the orchiata. Will keep you updated with hopefully good progress.

Gary


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## Carper (Oct 8, 2016)

Just thought I'd post an update on the seedlings which are just over 3 months out of flask. I didn't expect much but they have all have settled in very well. The randsii were around 9cm when I deflasked them and they average 14cm. The adductum have also increased in size from around 10 to 14cm. The anitum have increased the most with some around the 16cm mark. Fingers crossed as not lost any yet.

















These are seedlings that are just over a year out of flask;

- Death Star x anitum have roughly doubled in size to around 15cm
- kolopakingii have gone to 21cm on average from 9cm









The sanderianum seedlings I split into single pots and left some in compots. They average 16cm from 8cm. The fairreanum have surprised me the most. Some have grown very well and I've put an image on to compare against a FS plant I have. 
















The Paph Lebeau x adductum is around 25cm and was the first flask I had. 





The Paph Wossner Spiderman have gone from 9cm to some which are 26cm. 









All the seedlings are on a heatmat set around the 20C mark. They also have supplementary lighting for around 6 hours a day. They are all in orchiata bark and I water them every other day as they are nearly dry throughout. The feed strength is normally around 100 u/S at most and I occasionally add Epsom Salts & Maxicrop. I feed Kelpmax every 3 weeks. Hopefully the growth will continue throught our winter months!!

Gary
UK


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## phraggy (Oct 8, 2016)

Looks like the heatmats are working very well for you -- coupled with your growing skills which are second to none. The growth,as shown in your pics, is phenomenal, looks like you'll be short of room again in another year or two!!!
Very well done Gary, you make me so envious.

Ed


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## Ozpaph (Oct 8, 2016)

You are doing a fantastic job; I'm envious.


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## Redtwist (Oct 8, 2016)

Lovely looking collection of plants Gary. Looks like you have got everything spot on for them.
I've no experience of raising from flask, but definitely a big fan of the heatmat treatment - all my plants have put on great roots with mats on timer overnight. My phil.roebellini is threatening to burst its pot!
Very envious of your spidermen - thats one I'd love to have in the collection.


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## Carper (Oct 8, 2016)

Redtwist said:


> Lovely looking collection of plants Gary. Looks like you have got everything spot on for them.
> I've no experience of raising from flask, but definitely a big fan of the heatmat treatment - all my plants have put on great roots with mats on timer overnight. My phil.roebellini is threatening to burst its pot!
> Very envious of your spidermen - thats one I'd love to have in the collection.



The heatmat treatment is something I need to expand on for some of my other plants. Ed (Phraggy) also gets excellent results in the form of a heated sandbed. It certainly is an area that produces results. Looking forward to getting all the seedlings to FS as soon as possible.

Gary


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## Carper (Oct 8, 2016)

phraggy said:


> Looks like the heatmats are working very well for you -- coupled with your growing skills which are second to none. The growth,as shown in your pics, is phenomenal, looks like you'll be short of room again in another year or two!!!
> Very well done Gary, you make me so envious.
> 
> Ed



Thanks Ed, I will admit whatever I seem to try is working even though I am very cautious. I try not to push the boundaries too far as the seedlings are still very tender and young. They seem to be getting all they need from the small quantities I'm providing and with regular watering and their growing environment, hopefully they will progress well within the next year or so. I pick up a lot of information on this forum, so it's thanks all round aswell.

Gary


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## NYEric (Oct 8, 2016)

Looking good.


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## Bjorn (Oct 9, 2016)

Impressed, you will soon run out of room:evil:
I know, I am there


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## Carper (Oct 9, 2016)

Bjorn said:


> Impressed, you will soon run out of room:evil:
> I know, I am there



With a moderate 3m x 3m greenhouse, space is a premium already. With this amount of potentially large multis, it may not be long before I'm in serious trouble. May need to ask the wife for a greenhouse extention.:rollhappy:

Gary


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## phraggy (Oct 9, 2016)

Carper said:


> With a moderate 3m x 3m greenhouse, space is a premium already. With this amount of potentially large multis, it may not be long before I'm in serious trouble. May need to ask the wife for a greenhouse extention.:rollhappy:
> 
> Gary



Don't ask ---- just do it!!!! the consequences wont hurt that much and the bruises will go after a few days!!

Ed


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## troy (Oct 9, 2016)

I'm envios!! Excellent growing, in a few years you could possibly have a thriving carper orchid business, I'd buy plants off you


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## Carper (Jul 14, 2018)

Thought I'd give an update on the seedlings I deflasked over the last few of years.




Paph adductum approx. 24cm. Multigrowth plants.







Paph anitum approx. 22cm




Paph randsii approx. 23cm







Paph sanderianum approx. 30cm







Paph Lebeau x adductum approx. 42cm




Paph Wossner Spiderman approx. 40cm




Paph Death Star x anitum approx. 28cm




Paph fairreanum approx. 30cm. Bloomed after 3 yrs out of flask and now has 3 new growths. A few more of these approaching FS this year.




Really pleased with how the deflasking has gone and learnt a great deal. Accepted that some of the species, ie anitum, adductum & randsii are slow but they are picking up speed as they strengthen.

Gary
UK


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## NYEric (Jul 14, 2018)

Nice, thanks for sharing. Those fairries look especially nice! 
Hmmm, I have a mystery Paph I received a while ago that looks a lot like your adductum!


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## fibre (Jul 14, 2018)

Great job! 
Do you have them all on heat mats?


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## Ozpaph (Jul 18, 2018)

you are doing a great job.


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## Carper (Jul 24, 2018)

fibre said:


> Great job!
> Do you have them all on heat mats?



I grow most of them on the heatmat, especially at the beginning until a good root system is established. I then move them off but occasionally alternate them with other seedlings. I may wish to dry out the pots slightly more so the heatmat is a good way as it only takes the odd day or so. This has worked very successfully for me over the last couple of years so was wondering if the warmer temps from below helped nutrient uptake? It's set around 22C mark so it's thermostatically set.

Gary


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## fibre (Jul 25, 2018)

Thank you, Gary!


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## Carper (Mar 31, 2020)

Another bit of an update on the anitum/adductum/randii seedlings I began this thread with. They are all picking up pace as they grow larger. Just repotted the randsii as they were getting a bit root bound. To be brief, the anitum (yellow label-single growth plants) are around 32cm leafspan. The multigrowth adductum (pink label plants) are around 30cm and so are the randsii. They look healthy and I know there is a way to go on these, but any ideas on how large they need to be to bloom would be interesting.

Gary
UK



DSCF4377 by Gary Dobbs, on Flickr



DSCF4379 by Gary Dobbs, on Flickr



DSCF4378 by Gary Dobbs, on Flickr



DSCF4380 by Gary Dobbs, on Flickr



DSCF4385 by Gary Dobbs, on Flickr


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## Justin (Mar 31, 2020)

anitum can be a really difficult species to grow, so you clearly have some skills! Great job.


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## BrucherT (Mar 31, 2020)

Carper said:


> Thought I'd give an update on the seedlings I deflasked over the last few of years.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This thread is killer! Question for you, master seedling grower: I’m about one year into my first deflasking of 16 OZ-refugee fairrieanum. They had stayed a year too long in the flask. I got them all out and so far have lost only one rootless runt (I cried anyway). The seedlings were very difficult to separate, which I did anyway before this forum taught me that I should have given them time on one big clump first. They were also very leggy and I chose to respect their root/stem lines anyway, so they’re kinda tall. Some suggested I repot them deeper but I just couldn’t bring myself to disturb them again. Well, here they are now. I was waiting for the mix to tell me they needed repotting but the plants have come through a Chicago winter happily, watered twice a week with RO/K-lite, sometimes KelpMax, sometimes Cal-Mag added, pinch of oyster shell twice in the year. I never let them dry out and mist most mornings with RO. South/southeast windows. One seedling is very runty but I keep pulling for it. The rest seem hearty enough to me, if leggy. All advice appreciated. I had been hoping to see roots through the clear soup container and yogurt cups but so far I really don’t.


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## kiwi (Mar 31, 2020)

I think you should be planting deeper. They look healthy enough. Maybe combine all into another community pot.


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## setaylien (Mar 31, 2020)

Carper said:


> Another bit of an update on the anitum/adductum/randii seedlings I began this thread with. They are all picking up pace as they grow larger. Just repotted the randsii as they were getting a bit root bound. To be brief, the anitum (yellow label-single growth plants) are around 32cm leafspan. The multigrowth adductum (pink label plants) are around 30cm and so are the randsii. They look healthy and I know there is a way to go on these, but any ideas on how large they need to be to bloom would be interesting.
> 
> Gary
> UK
> ...





Carper said:


> Another bit of an update on the anitum/adductum/randii seedlings I began this thread with. They are all picking up pace as they grow larger. Just repotted the randsii as they were getting a bit root bound. To be brief, the anitum (yellow label-single growth plants) are around 32cm leafspan. The multigrowth adductum (pink label plants) are around 30cm and so are the randsii. They look healthy and I know there is a way to go on these, but any ideas on how large they need to be to bloom would be interesting.
> 
> Gary
> UK
> ...


I think your seedlings look great and your growing skills appear to be excellent. As for the size they will need to be to bloom well, adductum could be just 18 inches leaf span but anitum and randii both grow to a very large size. The best flowered plants of those species I have seen were about a meter across and had several mature leaf-fans. I hope that is not discouraging.


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## Carper (Mar 31, 2020)

BrucherT said:


> This thread is killer! Question for you, master seedling grower: I’m about one year into my first deflasking of 16 OZ-refugee fairrieanum. They had stayed a year too long in the flask. I got them all out and so far have lost only one rootless runt (I cried anyway). The seedlings were very difficult to separate, which I did anyway before this forum taught me that I should have given them time on one big clump first. They were also very leggy and I chose to respect their root/stem lines anyway, so they’re kinda tall. Some suggested I repot them deeper but I just couldn’t bring myself to disturb them again. Well, here they are now. I was waiting for the mix to tell me they needed repotting but the plants have come through a Chicago winter happily, watered twice a week with RO/K-lite, sometimes KelpMax, sometimes Cal-Mag added, pinch of oyster shell twice in the year. I never let them dry out and mist most mornings with RO. South/southeast windows. One seedling is very runty but I keep pulling for it. The rest seem hearty enough to me, if leggy. All advice appreciated. I had been hoping to see roots through the clear soup container and yogurt cups but so far I really don’t.



Hi,
the seedlings look healthy and you have got them to adapt to your environment, with minimum loss. I also deflasked a fairrieanum flask for the first time a few years ago and I took a similar pattern to yours. I possibly could have kept them a little wetter, but like all my seedlings treat them all the same. To be brief, I always put in single pots, to avoid any possible contamination. I monitor daily, feed kelpmax only for a month or so, then feed very low for around 6 months, keeping the medium of precision bark/perlite damp at all times. The aim is to get the seedling roots. I keep them on a heat mat in low light for up to a year, thats it. It may take longer than normal but the seedlings look healthier with this approach. When I do repot, I always "pot on" to avoid disturbance to the roots if possible. I possibly agree that to keep the whole flask together for several months may lead to better stronger seedlings/better roots before separating, but I have yet to try that, maybe next time. 
Your seedlings have done great so far, so you could carry on a for a while as you are. You could also split up one of the compots into individual pots to try out first. 

Gary
UK


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## Carper (Mar 31, 2020)

setaylien said:


> I think your seedlings look great and your growing skills appear to be excellent. As for the size they will need to be to bloom well, adductum could be just 18 inches leaf span but anitum and randii both grow to a very large size. The best flowered plants of those species I have seen were about a meter across and had several mature leaf-fans. I hope that is not discouraging.



Thanks for the advice. To just keep them alive is rewarding. They are picking up speed but will just keep growing them as best I can until they do bloom. Never discouraged, but more determined! I have a phrag kovachii, over 10 years old still waiting to bloom, and a Paph Kolosand from 2012 that is just approaching FS so looking forward to the challenge.


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## Ozpaph (Apr 9, 2020)

They look great but i suspect will need to be twice as big to flower.


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## BrucherT (Apr 10, 2020)

Carper said:


> Hi,
> the seedlings look healthy and you have got them to adapt to your environment, with minimum loss. I also deflasked a fairrieanum flask for the first time a few years ago and I took a similar pattern to yours. I possibly could have kept them a little wetter, but like all my seedlings treat them all the same. To be brief, I always put in single pots, to avoid any possible contamination. I monitor daily, feed kelpmax only for a month or so, then feed very low for around 6 months, keeping the medium of precision bark/perlite damp at all times. The aim is to get the seedling roots. I keep them on a heat mat in low light for up to a year, thats it. It may take longer than normal but the seedlings look healthier with this approach. When I do repot, I always "pot on" to avoid disturbance to the roots if possible. I possibly agree that to keep the whole flask together for several months may lead to better stronger seedlings/better roots before separating, but I have yet to try that, maybe next time.
> Your seedlings have done great so far, so you could carry on a for a while as you are. You could also split up one of the compots into individual pots to try out first.
> 
> ...


Thank you!!! This is encouraging! I think I can go another year before repotting....the mix looks good anyway, space is rather at a premium, so. I will hope for updates on yours too!


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## sastry (Aug 26, 2020)

Hi 
May i know what media you have used for freshly deflasked seedlings and subsequently when you shifted them to individual pots
sastry


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## Carper (Sep 7, 2020)

sastry said:


> Hi
> May i know what media you have used for freshly deflasked seedlings and subsequently when you shifted them to individual pots
> sastry



I keep it simple and use the orchiata precision with a little added perlite. I soak the bark with kelpmax for a good 24-48 hours before I use. I do keep a good eye on the pots as they are on a heat mat and can very quickly dry out. I only feed with kelpmax for the first few weeks any way so just try to keep the medium damp at all times. The feed strength after that will be very weak as I may need to water 3-4 times a week. 

Gary


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