# Brachypetalum breeding -what's the point?



## emydura (Jun 15, 2010)

As I see more and more of the complex Brachy Paphs being posted I wonder what is the point of a lot of the breeding. They are all starting to look the same to me. I don't think I could confidently identify any Brachy hybrid anymore. Even a lot of the complex hybrids look like some of the primaries. I guess the exception is the leuchochilum based hybrids where the breeding is trying to get darker and darker flowers. There seems great value in this line of breeding. I'm not sure about the rest. 

David


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## SlipperKing (Jun 15, 2010)

I have to agree with you David. I was thinking the same thing as I veiwed the last few postings


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## paphioboy (Jun 16, 2010)

I think pedigree breeding (like in Thai leucochilums) is more interesting than the hybrids..


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## John Boy (Jun 16, 2010)

I approach the subject from the European end of things and have to say that there’s a HUGE gap, as so often when we start talking about Brachypetalum breeding here, and there. You guys (within the U.S.) pretty much live in WonderWonderland and seem to be loosing the appreciation for what your breeders are doing. Let me tell you: If Europe had the kind of Brachies available as you have, I’d be sticking all my Cattleyas and Draculas into the trash-can, and I would be growing about 1000 different Brachies. Just take the pictures of the last 3 days, and tell me how these plants look all the same. If I see these colours… I want to start shouting at our breeders. Maybe you all need to come here for a while, to start having to build a collection with mostly inferior plants?!


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## Scooby5757 (Jun 16, 2010)

I've often thought it seems we are trying to head towards something the Japanese already have...Paph. Memoria Hirohisa Kawai.


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## Drorchid (Jun 16, 2010)

emydura said:


> As I see more and more of the complex Brachy Paphs being posted I wonder what is the point of a lot of the breeding. They are all starting to look the same to me. I don't think I could confidently identify any Brachy hybrid anymore. Even a lot of the complex hybrids look like some of the primaries. I guess the exception is the leuchochilum based hybrids where the breeding is trying to get darker and darker flowers. There seems great value in this line of breeding. I'm not sure about the rest.
> 
> David



I totally disagree. I breed Brachy's as well, and I do see differences between the different crosses. There is a number of different things that you can breed for within the Brachy's:

*Size and shape*: Trying to create Brachy's with larger and more flat and round shaped flowers
*Stance of the flowers*: Breed for flowers that stand up on their own flower stem.
*Color*: you can breed for multiple things. One thing I am trying to breed for, is Brachy's with a nice yellow brackground, but you can also breed for all red (to almost black) brachy's, all white brachys, or just ones that have an interesting spotting pattern.
*Disease resistance and vigor*: Brachy's are known to easily get bacterial rot, so if you can create ones that are more resistant, and are more vigorous this is a good thing.

So you see, there is a lot we breeders still can do.

Robert


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## Mrs. Paph (Jun 16, 2010)

I kindof see what you mean with everything looking the same, but I think that's just my lack of enough exposure to Brachys - my eyes aren't trained enough to see some of the finer points at first glance. My first glance just says white with purple/red spots, blah, blah, blah. But I know if I could dig in and just spend time looking at tons of them in bloom, I could really appreciate what I was seeing (and get a more solid idea of the SPECIES to help understand the hybrids), and of course in person there's so much more to see than just in a photograph - there's size, the 3-D aspect... And working with disease resistance is great, b/c I've even had a Brachy x Cochlo cross that would rot in the crown if I looked at it wrong! I've never had the issue with anything else indoors, but that plant would send out tons of growths and rot every other one! I have one little chunk of my Primcolor left in sphag'n bag...it blooms so nice when it's not rotting! I have one from another set of parents, a plant above it dripped on it, and it started rotting the first week I had it! I caught it in time to let the growth bloom later I think, but I digress... lol Let the Brachy Breeding continue!  I have a complex brachy starting to thrive and bloom again in my new grow room, so I plan to get a few more this fall!


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## NYEric (Jun 17, 2010)

Brachypetalum breeding -what's the point? 
Pleasure + baby brachys! :crazy:


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## Ernie (Jun 17, 2010)

I agree and disagree. Yeah, you can expect Brachys to all have the same theme: white to off-white to yellow background with some degree of spots, speckles and overlay on a round flower with heavy substance and a short stem, BUT what's wrong with that. It is hard to shop for unbloomed seedlings if you're looking for something specific, but it's super fun to buy a bunch of seedlings a bloom them out to see the variability. Brachys are cool!


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## Leo Schordje (Jun 17, 2010)

Not trying to be a kiss-****, but I agree with everybody.  David's post is valid, and there are times my eyes glaze over when looking at posted images or my own plants, trying to decide which is better. But I do like them, and I need to keep at least a few, because they are really a nice addition to the collection. 

As for Robert's comments about the goals of current breeding. I agree 100%. I also would point out that the traits that Robert states as goals of these breeding programs have been proving more difficult to acheive than similar programs in groups like Cattleya. 

Brachy hybrids need stronger flowers stems, enough to self support the flowers. Niveum and godefroyae seem to be the two parents of choice for this trait. If there is a recent dose of one of the floppy species, it sets this goal back. 

Stable non-fading yellow background is also an illusive trait, many open yellow and slowly fade to a pale cream or ivory color. 

Going for a solid red or dark purple by breeding for bigger and bigger spots. This goal is a neat one, it is similar to how red Phals were developed out of the Harlequin type Phals. Again, the bigger the spots the more likely to have a lot of bellatulum, the more likely the flower stem will be weak and floppy. 

So as you see, each of these breeding goals pulls in other traits that are not desirable from the breeder's perspective. So Robert's point of veiw is very valid, and it is hard to appreciate that these goals will not be easy to get to. Many generation will be needed to get there. 

Now back to my dilemma, I don't have room for them all, which is better, the Welleslyanum that blooms reliably, stands up and displays well, but is a small ivory flowers with small spots, or the (Wellesleyanum x concolor) which is more yellow when it first opens, but fades and is rather floppy? My eyes glaze over.


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## Pete (Jun 20, 2010)

haha. leo i was thinking the same thing as your first statement as i read through every post..


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## emydura (Jun 20, 2010)

I have enjoyed the responses. I feel much the same way as Leo. I do like Brachies but I'm not sure I could have a big collection of them. I would have a few more if they were easier to grow. So this is a worth while breeding line alone. I guess when you only have half a dozen species that look superficially very similar, you ain't going to get a lot of variation. I like the idea of large yellow Brachies so best of luck with that one Robert. I guess in the search for these elusive traits, the bulk of the seedlings will look much like that which has already been produced.

David

PS John Boy. Do you not have access to US breeding? Even we in Australia can get access to the best breeding from the US. In fact Sam Tsui will be here this year. Plus we get a lot of stuff from Taiwan as well.


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## goldenrose (Jun 20, 2010)

I've been sitting back just listening to responses. There was a part of me to hesitate on purchasing 10 plants from Nick due to them being 'alike' but the price was too good to pass up. When you've got 5-6 plants (or more) in bloom all lined up it's really easy to see the differences. The difficulty is trying to weigh the minor differences and then of course you have to give them one more blooming to see if they'll improve ......
or if you kill them!


Leo Schordje said:


> .....Now back to my dilemma, I don't have room for them all, which is better, the Welleslyanum that blooms reliably, stands up and displays well, but is a small ivory flowers with small spots, or the (Wellesleyanum x concolor) which is more yellow when it first opens, but fades and is rather floppy? My eyes glaze over.


It doesn't appear that you've gotten much help so here's my suggestion. Breed the two, as soon as you know the breeding took, send the plants to new homes. Now as certain someone told me 'keep 6 of a cross & the odds are you should have a pretty good one'. So you have some time before those 6 seedlings come home & for awhile they'll take up less space than 2 adult plants! .... and you have more time to make room for them as they grow up!


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## etex (Jun 20, 2010)

I also bought Nick's budded special last fall and enjoyed the subtle differences in blooms and the super cool marbled foliage. Took a first time blooming Paph Triple Trix to our Orchid Show this spring, and was lucky enought to be a clerk on the Paph judging Team. It was a real kick to hear the judge look closely at my little plant and say it had a good form,color and spots!
Part of their allure,I think, is that they are not the easiest plants to keep healthy and are a confidence builder when you get it right. When I first got mine, I must have left some water on a dip in a lower leaf on 2 of the plants and ended up with a black spot on each which did not spread.
I think Brachy's are cool and are well suited for indoor culture due to their small size and the foliage is attractive year round.
I hope the breeding continues for rounder flowers, all-whites, yellows,darker blooms, increased disease resistance, and stronger stems. Am on Nick's mailing list and he's been coming up with some real cool stuff in his select plants- of course, at up to 500.00 to 1,000.00 a plant, it's out of my price range.
Right now, I have a blooming Paph Wellesleyanum FMA Alba x In-Charm White 'In -Charm' that blooms twice a year, and has a good self supporting stem and the bloom is as cute as can be.


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## Leo Schordje (Jun 22, 2010)

goldenrose said:


> ..........Now as certain someone told me 'keep 6 of a cross & the odds are you should have a pretty good one'. So you have some time before those 6 seedlings come home & for awhile they'll take up less space than 2 adult plants! .... and you have more time to make room for them as they grow up!



:rollhappy::rollhappy::rollhappy:


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