# Phrag. besseae



## silence882 (Sep 4, 2006)

Continuing my tradition of having plants bloom at odd times of the year, here's my besseae:







--Stephen


----------



## PHRAG (Sep 4, 2006)

:drool: 

That is drool inducing. Do you have the parent info?


----------



## Marco (Sep 4, 2006)

:drool: sweet phrag!


----------



## Heather (Sep 4, 2006)

Oh, beautiful! Always beautiful. Have I mentioned how much I really do like besseae? :smitten:


----------



## SlipperFan (Sep 4, 2006)

She is *very* lovely!


----------



## silence882 (Sep 6, 2006)

Thanks, guys!

This cross is '#4' x '#7' from Antec. I've been attempting to get a better picture, but can't get it quite right.

--Stephen


----------



## SlipperFan (Sep 6, 2006)

silence882 said:


> ...I've been attempting to get a better picture, but can't get it quite right.


The flower looks pretty good, but the background is distracting. Maybe that's why you are not satisfied?


----------



## silence882 (Sep 11, 2006)

The texture didn't look quite right on the first pic. I have finally gotten another, better photo:






--Stephen


----------



## Heather (Sep 11, 2006)

that's better!!


----------



## PHRAG (Sep 11, 2006)

Maybe the Antec folks will pop in here and tell us more about #4 and #7. More specifically, were they wild collected or seed grown? 

Is this besseae growing on stolons or growing in a clump?


----------



## SlipperFan (Sep 12, 2006)

Yes, very nice, Stephen!


----------



## silence882 (Sep 15, 2006)

This plant only has two growths and they're clumped. I think stolonous growth is more common in plants in the wild than it is in plants in cultivation.

And of course, the besseae bloom fell off about a day before the dalessandroi second bloom would have been fully open, so no together picture for now. However, I got bored and dissected the besseae bloom. Here are a few shots:









I posted more shots on the besseae page:
http://www.slipperorchids.info/phragdatasheets/besseae/index.html

--Stephen


----------



## Shadow (Sep 16, 2006)

It was much better as a whole flower. Now it reminds me seafood.


----------



## Heather (Sep 16, 2006)

Or a chicken? (on the left.)


----------



## DavidM (Sep 17, 2006)

Very nice


----------



## NYEric (Sep 18, 2006)

If I had the 2 bloom that close together I would have crossed them to make a Phrag. Jersey. The only place that I've seen selling Delassendroi hybrids is Piping Rock and EYOF, and we all know how hard it is to get EYOF plants, (I think they out-OZ OZ). E.


----------



## lindafrog (Sep 18, 2006)

Wow, what a cover girl beautiful phrag besseae, congradulations on your growing skill. Any advice you'd care to share? What type of water are you using?


----------



## silence882 (Sep 18, 2006)

I've been thinking of using the besseae pollen on the 3rd dalessandroi bloom to make Phrag. Jersey. I don't know if I actually want the seedlings, though.

I use untreated well-water. It has a ppm of ~180 and a pH of ~6.4. I add fertilizer at about 1/4 strength about a third of the time. The besseaes are in diatomite now, although i think i'll switch to medium CHC / charcoal / diatomite once the two are done blooming.

--Stephen


----------



## Kyle (Sep 18, 2006)

I don't see much use in makng Phrag Jersey. In my opinion it only causes confusion between the pure dalessandroi species. I think it would much better to self the dalessandroi and preserve the species rather then muddle the genes.

Its like crossing caudatum with wallisii. Whats the point?

Kyle


----------



## kentuckiense (Sep 18, 2006)

Kyle said:


> I don't see much use in makng Phrag Jersey. In my opinion it only causes confusion between the pure dalessandroi species. I think it would much better to self the dalessandroi and preserve the species rather then muddle the genes.
> 
> Its like crossing caudatum with wallisii. Whats the point?
> 
> Kyle



I agree with Kyle.


----------



## Marco (Sep 18, 2006)

Shadow said:


> It was much better as a whole flower. Now it reminds me seafood.



chicken and a lung


----------



## NYEric (Sep 19, 2006)

The solely delAssendroi hybrids I've seen have a softer orange tint to the flowers and the slightly downswept petals. Why not mix the 2 species and get something new? After all, the mix is why people hybridize. PS Isolating the species will improve certain characteristics but wont improve the overall qualities of the resulting prodigy... [think Darwin] E.


----------



## Drorchid (Sep 22, 2006)

Kyle said:


> I don't see much use in makng Phrag Jersey. In my opinion it only causes confusion between the pure dalessandroi species. I think it would much better to self the dalessandroi and preserve the species rather then muddle the genes.
> 
> Its like crossing caudatum with wallisii. Whats the point?
> 
> Kyle



As long as you keep records, I think it is perfectly OK to cross 2 species that are very closely related. The point or reason why you would do this is that often the hybrid will show hybid vigor....meaning it will grow faster, less prone to diseases, will be able to tolerate a wider growing range (temperature; light and or humidity) and sometimes the flowers will be larger, or more colorfull than either parent.

As two examples we crossed Phrag. popowii with Phrag. wallisii (= Phrag. Stairway to Heaven), and this hybrid bloomed much faster for us than either parent, and is much easier to grow.

I also crossed Phrag. fischeri with Phrag schlimii (= Phrag. Pink Panther; see other thread); and in my opinion this hybrid is way more superior than either one of it's parents, both in it's vigor, and in the shape and color of the flowers.

The problem off course arises when people don't label their plants correctly, and when sister species (like besseae and dalessandroi) that look very similar are labeled as the same species and get crossed with each other. So if they were labeled incorrecty, after a few generations no one knows what is what....so that is why it is important to always maintain records and keep the labels in the pots!!

Robert


----------



## silence882 (Sep 22, 2006)

I agree with Eric and Robert!

Hybridizing like species or varieties is fine as long as good records are kept and one doesn't try to sell the offspring as true species. EYOF has registered some hybrids with Phrag Jersey as a parent, so I assume it has the potential to have improved characteristics over either species parent.

If I had a second dalessandroi, I might try a species cross. There's something about selfings that I really don't like. I think it creates sort of a bottleneck in the genetic diversity of the species (just don't ask me to explain how or why I get this impression!).

--Stephen


----------



## Kyle (Sep 22, 2006)

silence882 said:


> EYOF has registered some hybrids with Phrag Jersey as a parent, so I assume it has the potential to have improved characteristics over either species parent.



I could be totally wrong, but I think some of those hybrids they had made prior to the whole besseae/dalesandroi mess was sorted out. Way back when they thought they were crossing two besseae, but in fact it was two diferent species. It wasn't until many years later that they realized that the error in thier ways. Fast forward to now, and we get 10 Jersey hybrids registered at the same time in 2004.




silence882 said:


> There's something about selfings that I really don't like. I think it creates sort of a bottleneck in the genetic diversity of the species (just don't ask me to explain how or why I get this impression!).



I think in the short term, with plants, selfings and brother/sister (sib crosses) are OK. But look what Robert posted recently about besseae flavum. All crosses came from one plant. Vigor and fertility has been lost.

Kyle


----------



## silence882 (Sep 23, 2006)

I finally got a pic of the two together:







--Stephen


----------



## NYEric (Sep 25, 2006)

That will be the case until another original flavum is found.


----------



## Gooch (Oct 4, 2006)

Awesome color


----------

