# Maudiæ type slowly turning brown



## My Green Pets (Sep 10, 2015)

Hi everyone,

I have had this Paph Odette's Vision for about a year and a half, during which time it has flowered twice with no problems at all. A couple of months ago, I cut off a piece of a leaf to virus test. The blade was sterilized and not used on another plant.

Eventually, the remainder of the leaf turned brown and withered. Then the next leaf, and now the next. A new growth hasn't shown any browning yet, but this fan looks like it is done for.

I'm wondering what on earth could be going on, and if this could spread and eventually kill the whole plant?

Photos:

First leaf to go brown






Next leaf up going brown





Now it's spreading to the largest leaf, and I'm afraid I'm going to lose the whole fan and the emerging bud.





Any advice on what I should do?

Thank you


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## SlipperFan (Sep 10, 2015)

Looks like erwinia rot. If you have Dragon's Blood, apply it. If you don't, get some powdered lime and mix it with cinnamon, and dust everywhere on the brown rot. But I fear you will lose this fan, and if you don't remove it and treat the base, you may lose the whole plant. Sorry!


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## Kostas (Sep 11, 2015)

I would remove any leaf with this water soaked brown toward the base of the plant and definitely do not wet the fans from above! Only water the substrate


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## Justin (Sep 11, 2015)

cut.out all.infected pieces down into.healthy tissue...with a sterile tool.

separate from your.other plants and adjust culture to.prevent futher occurrence (more airflow maybe)


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## Ray (Sep 11, 2015)

FWIW, I had a phalaenopsis with erwinia, and daily spraying with 3 tablespoons per gallon of the Inocucor solution stopped it cold.


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## My Green Pets (Sep 11, 2015)

Thank you for your help! I don't have any of those products at home...can I buy them at big box stores? Will antibiotic creme like N**sporin do anything? Hydrogen peroxide poured over the plant?


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## My Green Pets (Sep 11, 2015)

Pulled these leaves off.


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## John M (Sep 11, 2015)

Yup. That's Erwinia. As you have done, all affected tissue MUST be removed. What I like to do next is spray the entire plant with an Aspirin solution (one 325 mg pill disolved in 1 litre water). Then, place the plant in a high airflow location to dry the wound and keep it dry.


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## My Green Pets (Sep 11, 2015)

Will keep you posted. This is my first encounter with it. The lower leaves of my Phrag Grande and Paph roth have been slowly browning, but I was attributing it to age as it has happened over the course of a few months. Now I'm not so sure.


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## John M (Sep 12, 2015)

Erwinia moves very fast, not over months. Erwinia rot also looks like the inside of the leaf is wet.....it looks like tea or coffee inside the leaf. It also has a very distinctive sour smell.


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## SlipperFan (Sep 12, 2015)

Also, erwinia seems to start at the base of the leaves. Aging tends to start at the tips and move slowly toward the base.


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## My Green Pets (Sep 12, 2015)

AWESOME advice, guys, thank you.


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## My Green Pets (Oct 3, 2015)

I followed advice I got here as well as some from a commercial grower.

I squirted hydrogen peroxide all over the infected areas. Leaves with spreading brown rot were removed, then I unpotted the plant and snapped off the first three growths (the middle had the infection....was sending up a bud  ) I soaked both pieces (the older growths first) in a bleach water solution, about a quarter cup in a five gallon bucket. Soaked each piece separately for about ten minutes each and potted them both up. Sprayed daily with swimming pool algae killer (supposedly similar to Physan 20) for about a week. Let infected division dry out nearly completely over several days.

There are brown spots and speckles everywhere, but they don't seem to be spreading.

These are all shots of the old growths.


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## SlipperFan (Oct 4, 2015)

Any chance there is water dripping onto the leaf?


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## My Green Pets (Mar 17, 2016)

Five month update post treatment.

The infected growth was removed as detailed above, but instead of tossing it, I removed all infected parts and potted it up. It is now in bloom.

The back growths put up a new growth that is smaller, but doing fine.

There are brown stains and splotches here and there on both plants, but no sign of advancing rot.


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## Happypaphy7 (Mar 20, 2016)

Congrats on the save!


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## SlipperFan (Mar 21, 2016)

Good for you!


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## Hyun007 (Mar 22, 2016)

Brilliant! Reminded me to get a bottle of Hydrogen Peroxide. Was it a 3% or 5%??? I am scare to soak in bleach though.


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## Ozpaph (Mar 23, 2016)

good job


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## fibre (Mar 23, 2016)

Well done!


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## Trithor (Mar 25, 2016)

It is always good to read a success story.


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## My Green Pets (Mar 26, 2016)

Hyun007 said:


> Brilliant! Reminded me to get a bottle of Hydrogen Peroxide. Was it a 3% or 5%??? I am scare to soak in bleach though.



It was 3%. The bleach solution was weak; 1/4 cup in 4 gallons.

I think letting it dry out almost completely after treatment also may have had something to do with it.

Thanks everyone for the encouragement. I am working on curing a Paph. rothschildianum and a Phrag Grande as well, but they are proving to be more difficult.


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## My Green Pets (Jun 10, 2016)

DAMN ! ! ! IT ! ! ! 

The _Erwinia_ has returned on the original Maudiae-type, as well as on my Phrag Grande.

Must be directly tied to me taking the plants outside for the summer. Hot, humid and wet, and suddenly _Erwinia_ is back. I guess it was just lying in wait for the right moment.

AARHRHHHGHG!! !


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## Happypaphy7 (Jun 10, 2016)

Oh, well. Sorry to hear, but what can you do?
As they say, **** happens.

Look at the brighter side.

Time to go buy a nicer replacement! :evil:

I lost beautiful plant of Paph. Golddollar in bloom last fall to center rot. 
I just lost wenshanense aureum to black rot last week.

Only the strong survive. 

and I just bought a flaks of wenshanense aureum. haha


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## abax (Jun 10, 2016)

Cambria, get on Eric's list for Dragon's Blood. I was having
a terrible time due to condensation from the roof of my
greenhouse over winter and the DB saved every one with
no recurrence.


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## troy (Jun 11, 2016)

Cambriawhat, you cannot I repeat, you cannot leave water in the crown, overnight or even half a day it will rot!!! everything!!!


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## My Green Pets (Jun 11, 2016)

The rot is occurring at the very base of the plants and working its way up, leaf by leaf.



abax said:


> Cambria, get on Eric's list for Dragon's Blood. I was having
> a terrible time due to condensation from the roof of my
> greenhouse over winter and the DB saved every one with
> no recurrence.



I did get a bottle of the DB, and I put a few drops on the Phrag infection when it was only a couple of centimeters in diameter, but still the rot took most of an outer leaf in a week! I tore off the entire growth (over 1 year in the making plus two new growths emerging at base - talk about a setback) and drenched with peroxide.

I think maybe I'm doing it wrong. I'm dripping 4-5 drops directly on the infection and rubbing it around with my finger to try to cover the infected part as well as the green parts surrounding it. When it dries, it leaves a red stain on the area. Is this the way to do it?

I have not applied the DB to the Maudiae yet. Just tore off rotting leaf and squirted with peroxide.

Trying not to get stressed out but @!#^(@($%(^! ! !


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## troy (Jun 11, 2016)

Anytime you touch irwinia or rot and the touch healthy tissue no matter what topical solution you have you spread it, cut the rottted part of the leaf off then put the bd on the area by drip, or dab with a q tip


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## gonewild (Jun 11, 2016)

It's probably a soil borne fungi like Phytophthora or Rhyzoctonia rather than bacterial.


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## Happypaphy7 (Jun 11, 2016)

The ones that rotted in my collection, never got water or even misted.
Then certain things like bulldogs and others, get watered and center filled with water, never get rot. 
I don't think it's that simple. Otherwise, nothing in the wild would survive.

Some plants just seem to be weak, unfortunately.

Squirting hydrogen peroxide don't help. At best, it will clean off the surface.
Whatever pathogens already inside plant tissues don't be affected. 

Isolate any sick plants if this is an option.

I hope you find even nicer prettier plant!


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## Ryan Young (Jun 11, 2016)

Have you tried half tablet of aspirin dissolved in a litre of water. Spray on plant. Salicylic acid related triggers plant defence mechanism. 

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk


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## My Green Pets (Jun 12, 2016)

I coated the damn thing in DB. I think the bacteria are residing in the plants tissues and just start spreading under certain conditions. In this case, maybe it was the sudden increase in temperatures, light, humidity, and water that stressed the plant and provided an opportunity for the _Erwinia_.

I also ordered Inocucor from Ray to try the probiotics route. Only thing is, I use tap water - not sure if the clorine/chloramine will negate the effect.

I have not tried the aspirin method but will give it a shot.

Thank you for your suggestions! I came home from a few days away to find Erwinia infections, Zygo dropping leaves, Catasetum roots dying...a whole hell of a lot of fun waiting for me.


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## gonewild (Jun 12, 2016)

CambriaWhat said:


> I coated the damn thing in DB. I think the bacteria are residing in the plants tissues and just start spreading under certain conditions. In this case, maybe it was the sudden increase in temperatures, light, humidity, and water that stressed the plant and provided an opportunity for the _Erwinia_.
> 
> I also ordered Inocucor from Ray to try the probiotics route. Only thing is, I use tap water - not sure if the clorine/chloramine will negate the effect.
> 
> ...



If you suddenly have that many problems after being gone for a few days look at some other cause other than bacteria.


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