# Cattleya species



## terryros (Mar 20, 2021)

While I have enough Phrags and Paphs to still qualify as a legitimate Slipertalk member, I have to admit that Cattleyas are now about 2/3 of my collection and 1/2 of my Cattleyas are species. All of my species were new self or sibling crosses of high quality plants. The great majority of these species are from the large flowered, unifoliate group.

I have not obtained the following members of this group, either because of lack of availability of young plants from crosses OR because there is something about the plant or flower that I have read that makes me think I would not like it. I am asking you if I should reconsider any of the following small group and work harder to obtain them.

lawrenceana
eldorado
rex
quadricolor


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## monocotman (Mar 20, 2021)

Terry,
I am in a very similar position to you. Two thirds of my plants are catts and the rest phrags. Most of the catts are unifoliate species of the large flower type. I don’t have any of the species you mention But would be interested to know what other thought
David


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## CarlG (Mar 20, 2021)

Well, I have a quadricolor. The flowers of this species don't open fully, giving a more bell-shaped appearance. Mine's kind of pale, and the flowers smell of melted plastic.

FWIW.
YMMV
HAND


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## terryros (Mar 20, 2021)

I knew that quadricolor ‘Elly’ AM is the rare one that opens, but it costs a lot. I did not know about the fragrance. I tolerate to slightly like percivaliana, but I don’t think I could get to melted plastic!


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## PeteM (Mar 21, 2021)

eldorado
rex

these two I have added to the collection. I believe the flowers are worth the extra effort and challenge. William Green from my green pets is on this forum and has a YouTube channel which focuses mainly on his Rex culture and success in different conditions. Rex has been difficult and took a long time for me to establish roots and new growth.

Eldorado I was also hesitant to try because I thought the growing conditions were difficult. This is a great video on the species that also peaked my interest.. 

After seeing ‘mt Ito’ in bloom on this forum (Cattleya eldorado ) I tracked down a seedling cross from a ‘mt Ito’ (EROS orchids) I have managed to split my 2 seedlings into 4 separate plants and even the tiniest of this species is growing very well under my conditions.

I am interested to see what others say about lawrenceana, it has never been on my radar. What about this species was the interest or issue?

Yes. Mostly phrags and Cattleyas growing in the collection for me. I look to be in good company!


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## geoffsharris (Mar 21, 2021)

Opinion of 1 human: 
Quadricolor is a bit like a poorly colored and shaped trianae. Nice, but not fantastic.
Rex is a very cool plant, just not that available. Worth tracking down.
Lawrenceana can be very hit or miss. Some clones are super vigorous and have big heads of flowers and others are runty and slow, difficult growers. Nice ones are really nice, and the less nice ones are a waste of space and time.
True eldorado (aka wallisii, trichopiliochila) are from near Manaus where it is almost never below 75F at night. I've seen them in the habitat and can attest that it is quite warm day and night. Mt. Ito is suspected by some growers to potentially be of hybrid origin. The very dark colors and the fact that it has become so common because it is so much easier to grow hint at this, but to my knowledge no one has proven it. Beautiful plant. Other clones are often more difficult to grow if you don't live in a place like Singapore. If you can keep them 70F+ at night, 85F+ day they do quite well.


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## terryros (Mar 21, 2021)

Thanks much for the video and other information. Eldorado is going to be a challenge and be in the warmest part of my room under high light. Orchids Limited has a seed grown eldorado alba (not sure if a selfing or sib cross) but it should be clean and I trust their breeding.

They are going to get some seed-grown rex in this spring that I think I will also get. Jerry Fischer told me the lawrenceana is "beautiful but difficult to obtain." so that probably isn't going to happen. I am still reluctant to buy the quadricolor.


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## terryros (Mar 21, 2021)

geoffsharris said:


> Opinion of 1 human:
> Quadricolor is a bit like a poorly colored and shaped trianae. Nice, but not fantastic.
> Rex is a very cool plant, just not that available. Worth tracking down.
> Lawrenceana can be very hit or miss. Some clones are super vigorous and have big heads of flowers and others are runty and slow, difficult growers. Nice ones are really nice, and the less nice ones are a waste of space and time.
> True eldorado (aka wallisii, trichopiliochila) are from near Manaus where it is almost never below 75F at night. I've seen them in the habitat and can attest that it is quite warm day and night. Mt. Ito is suspected by some growers to potentially be of hybrid origin. The very dark colors and the fact that it has become so common because it is so much easier to grow hint at this, but to my knowledge no one has proven it. Beautiful plant. Other clones are often more difficult to grow if you don't live in a place like Singapore. If you can keep them 70F+ at night, 85F+ day they do quite well.


Thank you for joining the little Cattleya club hiding inside Slippertalk. You can definitely contribute to the growing expertise of this group. Would you please tell me a bit about your growing location and conditions, as well as a bit about your Cattleya collection?


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## geoffsharris (Mar 21, 2021)

Hi Terry,

In N. California, used to be in San Diego. Pretty well represented collection. Coccineas, pumilas, sincoranas, purpuratas, jongheanas, most of the Colombian and Venezuelan Cattleya species, and a good cross section of the bifoliates - aclandiae, schilleriana, velutina, guttatas, amethestoglossas, nobiliors, walkerianas, tigrinas. Have a warmer greenhouse that is targeted to be 62-85F year round as much as possible and a second more seasonal one that gets down to high 40s in winter and about the same as the other greenhouse in summer. Most of the Cats, but not all are in the warm house. The other house is for Laelia anceps, other Mexican species and paphs from more temperate regions in Asia, and Ausie Dendrobiums. How about you?

-Geoff


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## terryros (Mar 22, 2021)

Minnesota in a space-locked indoor plant room with three different types of LED lighting. I have to be very selective with what I grow. I think orchids are a kind of biology experiment for me, so I am into details of growth conditions for things. I think that is why I am attracted to species and primary hybrids.


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## geoffsharris (Mar 22, 2021)

Happy to share my experience with the sub-group. I've come to appreciate that "Cattleya conditions" is not a very useful shorthand for a group with a lot of diversity in terms of optimal cultural practices. Don't know if you have these, but a lot of the smaller sized "Brazilian Laelias" like pumila, jongheana, alaorii, etc. are definite satisfying to grow, do well under lights and take up a lot less space that traditional unifoliates.


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## terryros (Mar 23, 2021)

I have a few, but I have a definite preference for the large flowered unifoliates!


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## Duck Slipper (Mar 23, 2021)

I like the Big Catts. myself. For some reason I have taken a liking to Warscewiczii’s. In the last couple years I have acquired 6 different Warscewiczii’s. Even acquired a “Firmin’Lambeau” division. Also, Jenmani, Dowiana, Mossiae, Lueddemanniana. Mossiae and Lueddemanniana have bloomed, others are to young.


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## tomp (Mar 24, 2021)

while I have and like the big catts too I am gravitating towards the small Brazilians as well. Here are examples of why:


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## southernbelle (Mar 24, 2021)

Love the second one!


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## tomp (Mar 25, 2021)

southernbelle said:


> Love the second one!


Sorry, I should have provided labels. They are as follows:
C. jongheana (syn L)
C. alaorii (syn L.)
the third is a rupicolous Laelia which may or may not be endsfeldzii


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## geoffsharris (Mar 25, 2021)

I used to be somewhat of a unifoliatist when it came to cattleyas, but have come around to appreciating the bifoliates as well. If you have lots of space and sun, leopoldii/tigrina, gutatta, amethystoglossa are awesome. Aclandiae, schilleriana, walkeriana, nobilior, kerrii are great and take up a lot less space. Intermedia is also quite pretty and adaptable to a lot of conditions. Just so I don't loose all credibility on ST, I do have some number of paphs and a few phrags as well.


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## PeteM (Mar 25, 2021)

geoffsharris said:


> Just so I don't loose all credibility on ST, I do have some number of paphs and a few phrags as well.


Thats what they all say


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## geoffsharris (Apr 2, 2021)

Not the best picture, but Cattleya warneri coerulescens. Very unusual color from tropical orchid farm. Pretty much like a concolor , but the overall color is different than a tipo, but not exactly coerulea. Has the tiniest hint of yellow way back in the throat.


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## monocotman (Apr 2, 2021)

Lovely!
David


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 4, 2021)

Although I post a lot of paph pics here, I am really a Cattleya connoisseur lol. I collect the rare varieties or forms of the unifoliates, particularly flameas and pelorics, or simply just with special traits. Some of you have seen the ones I bloomed recently. I will post some pics here that I have not shown on ST when I gather them together.

There are some confusion that surround certain species that tend to perpetuate through lack of proper updated information. What happens in North America is not what happens with the rest of the world sometimes. Through my travels of judging in US, Asia and South America, many myths surrounding these magnificent plants were completely busted for me.

For example:

1. the new quadricolors have many flat cultivars. We awarded a few in Bogota that could rival trianaes.
2. lawrenceana is readily available from South American vendors who regularly come to Redlands and Tamiami.
3. eldorados/wallisi is not a difficult species to grow under lights as long as they are watered properly and kept in the warmest part of the growing area (where phals grow, they thrive closer to the light).

The key to growing the right species is to determine if you have the right spot for it in your growing environment. There's the warm spot all year or that cool spot in winter. Place the plants accordingly. For me it could simply be a difference of one foot from the window separating the percivaliana from the eldorado (who is further in). 

There are many fantastic cattleya growers on here, and I hope we can keep sharing and exchanging info within our ‘secret’ cattleya group hiding in a slipper forum lol.


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 4, 2021)

Here are some of my collectables . Some pics are original pics of the divisions that I bought. I leave you to guess what they are before I provide key to identities.



Warneri var flamea (large flamea)




Warneri semialba quasi-flamea (great blushing effects around the picotee areas)



Percivaliana pelorica (Japanese breeding by Wakayama with intense rubra color and bright pelorism, also normal wide lip)





Labiata semialba pincelada (line bred from semialba lines with great form in Brazil)





Violacea coerulea (one of the best forms with very flat lip and intense blue coloration)





Alaorii flamea (very full and flat petals)


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 4, 2021)

Few more:



Amethystoglossa albescent (rare color form with pink freckles)




Amethystoglossa aurea (the orange form with good shape)







Amethystoglossa 4n (tetraploid with big round petals)





Labiata semialba flamea 'Brennandianna' (a select from the collection of a private grower in Brazil who did a limited mericlone run of a hundred or so plants; this plant was supposedly collected from the jungle, and one of the plants I would test against the labiata standard)



Below is the labiata semialba pincelada from Europe.






Mendellii albescent 'Bucaramanga' (original jungle plant with huge flowers)





Labiata coerulea 'Blue Balls' (selected from line breeding with exceptional shape)





Bicolor coerulea (line bred with a different yellow petals and blue-ish lip).




Schilleriana albescent (good wide lip)


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 4, 2021)

And few more:



Trianae flamea 'Panda' (the flameas can be random on this plant, some with markings and others do not; shows the instability of this gene even within the same plant on the same flowering; also a Wakayama original)






Lueddemaniana semialba flamea





Mossiae semialba flamea (one of the best flameas of this species with huge flares on petals and sepals; probably my favorite plant)






Gaskelliana semialba pincelada




Eldorado (syn. wallisi) semialba flamea 'Golden Trumpet' AM/AOS (got this one awarded a few years ago, one of the treasures of my collection).


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## Greenpaph (Apr 4, 2021)

Alaorii is one of my favorites!


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## terryros (Apr 4, 2021)

There are a few I might guess at, but I realize that my knowledge of specific cultivars within various species is limited. Time for the key to the pictures! Also, along with out species testing topic in the other chain, do you have any doubts about the true origin of any of these (species versus some admixture)?


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## monocotman (Apr 4, 2021)

Wow now you are just showing off! Those splash petals are something else.
The one with picotee sepals is amazing. Never seen anything like that!
David


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## southernbelle (Apr 4, 2021)

DrLeslieEe said:


> Few more:
> 
> View attachment 26734
> View attachment 26735
> ...


Bet you knew #4 in this group would steal my


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## southernbelle (Apr 4, 2021)

I think I’m sort of the one who started this little sub group, inadvertently, asking if there was a good cattleya group anywhere. All the Cattleya groups I could find on the web were ones that did not offer any expertise, I’ll just put it that way. A lot of likes and Memes but not much else. Some nice person, here, suggested that there was some cattleya interest in this group, so I started posting. I have a few species and a few bifoliates, but primarily large flowered unifoliates and remakes of old hybrids with better parents from O. Ltd.
I grow indoors in a 9 x 12 grow room under LED-T5 tubes. My low temperature in the winter is about 61-65 at night and my high in the summer is 84. I can’t get lower than that, as there is no window in my room, so I’m at the mercy of my basement’s low night temperature. I have six tables of cattleya’s and two tables of paths. I also have a small collection of phrags (10 plants) I grow upstairs in my living room window, along with three phals.
The only two things I have not been able to bloom, so far, are warscewiczii (young plants, though) and a Paph. (micranthum x roth) ‘Gloria Naugle’.
I had to destroy about a third of my catts due to virus, but now the room is virus free as I’ve tested most of the paths and have found no virus, so I am assuming they will be fine.. My paths are all small so will be outgrowing their two tables pretty rapidly, and will occupy more of the other tables.
I really appreciate this group and the information/expertise here. Also the photos are just awesome!

Deborah


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## BrucherT (Apr 4, 2021)

DrLeslieEe said:


> And few more:
> 
> View attachment 26744
> View attachment 26746
> ...


How is that center flower so different on the first one in this group?


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 4, 2021)

terryros said:


> There are a few I might guess at, but I realize that my knowledge of specific cultivars within various species is limited. Time for the key to the pictures! Also, along with out species testing topic in the other chain, do you have any doubts about the true origin of any of these (species versus some admixture)?


ID is now provided with each picture. Did you guess right?

Most of the species are 'procured' carefully with lots of research and required provenances. Most are obviously a species but of course mistakes can happen and doubt can occur when I bloom them a few years in a row. Some of these plants are in the 4 figure range so I buy them with as much care as I buy a car lol.


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 4, 2021)

BrucherT said:


> How is that center flower so different on the first one in this group?


From the side, the center flower looks the same as the rest. The lip develops weirdly on eldorados on some bloomings.

Update:
Oops on rereading the thread, I realized you were asking about the trianae flamea ‘Panda’, which I explained in the key (description) of the unstable flamea gene of this Japanese breeding.


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 4, 2021)

geoffsharris said:


> Not the best picture, but Cattleya warneri coerulescens. Very unusual color from tropical orchid farm. Pretty much like a concolor , but the overall color is different than a tipo, but not exactly coerulea. Has the tiniest hint of yellow way back in the throat. View attachment 26685


I love warneris. 

Could you take a pic of this flower next to a lavender cattleya so we can compare the colors? Or in sunlight? Coerulea and coerulescens have very defined parameters.


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 4, 2021)

southernbelle said:


> I think I’m sort of the one who started this little sub group, inadvertently, asking if there was a good cattleya group anywhere. All the Cattleya groups I could find on the web were ones that did not offer any expertise, I’ll just put it that way. A lot of likes and Memes but not much else. Some nice person, here, suggested that there was some cattleya interest in this group, so I started posting. I have a few species and a few bifoliates, but primarily large flowered unifoliates and remakes of old hybrids with better parents from O. Ltd.
> I grow indoors in a 9 x 12 grow room under LED-T5 tubes. My low temperature in the winter is about 61-65 at night and my high in the summer is 84. I can’t get lower than that, as there is no window in my room, so I’m at the mercy of my basement’s low night temperature. I have six tables of cattleya’s and two tables of paths. I also have a small collection of phrags (10 plants) I grow upstairs in my living room window, along with three phals.
> The only two things I have not been able to bloom, so far, are warscewiczii (young plants, though) and a Paph. (micranthum x roth) ‘Gloria Naugle’.
> I had to destroy about a third of my catts due to virus, but now the room is virus free as I’ve tested most of the paths and have found no virus, so I am assuming they will be fine.. My paths are all small so will be outgrowing their two tables pretty rapidly, and will occupy more of the other tables.
> ...


You will outgrow this room Deborah!!

If there Is no access to the outside to channel cold air in during winter, you can still grow majority of the large unifoliates. Only the Mexican laelias may require the chill and dryness.

Or you will need ANOTHER room with window access lol.


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## My Green Pets (Apr 4, 2021)

Got to plug my rexes here! My first two to bloom were crossed and Meyers is making flasks, I believe they are still taking reservations if anyone wants one! They are just lovely. Like lots of water during the growing season, but be extra careful not to rot them in the dry season.


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 4, 2021)

Great one Fuzzy Bud! Love to hear you grow them well. I have no experience in them as the flamea rexes I’m trying to get eludes me.

Please post a general guide to them? Normal catt summer but dryer cooler winters with bright light all year?


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## My Green Pets (Apr 4, 2021)

This is just about everything I know!


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 4, 2021)

My Green Pets said:


> This is just about everything I know!



Great video! Thanks for the cultural recommendations William!! So helpful. 

I think you also have a post here of your rex seedling journey?


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## southernbelle (Apr 4, 2021)

DrLeslieEe said:


> You will outgrow this room Deborah!!
> 
> If there Is no access to the outside to channel cold air in during winter, you can still grow majority of the large unifoliates. Only the Mexican laelias may require the chill and dryness.
> 
> Or you will need ANOTHER room with window access lol.


I just about had outgrown it, until I had to destroy virused plants. Right now this space is about my max, time and energy wise. Trying too have fewer, but more special things. Nothing anywhere near 4 figures, though.


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## geoffsharris (Apr 4, 2021)

DrLeslieEe said:


> I love warneris.
> 
> Could you take a pic of this flower next to a lavender cattleya so we can compare the colors? Or in sunlight? Coerulea and coerulescens have very defined parameters.


I'll wait until one of the tipos is in bloom and do a side by side.


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## Paphman910 (Apr 5, 2021)

Beautiful collection of cattleyas! I would love to get Cattleya rex and it is an amazing species! Saw it for sale 25 years ago from a guess speaker at a show for $50 but I did not have the money to buy it.


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 5, 2021)

My favourite rex is this flamea from the internet. I think I’m close to finding the owner to beg for a division!



I’ve also been trying to reserve a select rex flamea from PeruFlora for years but Manolo keeps deferring until a great one shows up. One day!


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## monocotman (Apr 5, 2021)

Leslie,
now I’ve flowered my warneri ‘graue’ I too am I love with this species. That flammea is very nice! For me the form is just about perfect. Not too full.
I have an unawarded concolor and an awarded alba called schwanensee that should both flower next spring. Really looking forward to that.
There are some fantastic photos on line of this species from shows in South America.
David


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 5, 2021)

These are some of the warneri divisions that I have, of which the albescents are my favourite.










Pic 1 (clockwise from top left):
warneri semialba ‘Itabarina’
warneri albescent ‘AWZ’
warneri albescent ‘Dona Luerdes’
warneri flamea

Pic 2: warneri albescent (first bloom seedling)

Pic 3: warneri coerulea ‘Purple Hill’


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## monocotman (Apr 5, 2021)

Leslie,
I agree about the albescens clones. They are spectacular. I tried to grow a mericlone of Santa Teresa a few years ago but it was a weak thing and eventually died,
David
ps the coerulea clone has amazing colour.


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## monocotman (Apr 5, 2021)

Leslie,
Apropos of nothing much, here is the mendelli pincelada ‘Lu’ that arrived a few months ago from Max Strauss. It is his photo.
Your advice about establishing the imported plant was critical and it’s now throwing several new roots and a second growth at the usual time of year for the northern hemisphere. It ha several mature bulbs so this growth could end up flowering,


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## geoffsharris (Apr 5, 2021)

I have a soft spot for mendelii and rex. Both should be much more widely grown. Beautiful.


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## My Green Pets (Apr 5, 2021)

I have about 50 rex seedlings from Peruflora on their way to the US at the end of this month. Flamea, splash, semi-alba, rosita, and ayacucho forms. Hope to be able to show off their flowers before I'm 50


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## monocotman (Apr 5, 2021)

Wow 50. You must have plenty of room!
David


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## geoffsharris (Apr 5, 2021)

Willing to help hedge your bets of disaster by growing some of them for you.


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## PeteM (Apr 5, 2021)

monocotman said:


> Wow 50. You must have plenty of room!
> David


He’s going to need to purge or erect another grow tent! I’m tuning in to see what cutthroat decisions are made!


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## Vox (Apr 5, 2021)

DrLeslieEe said:


> View attachment 26737
> 
> Labiata semialba flamea 'Brennandianna' (a select from the collection of a private grower in Brazil who did a limited mericlone run of a hundred or so plants; this plant was supposedly collected from the jungle, and one of the plants I would test against the labiata standard)


Incredibly beautiful plants in this threat, but that one is very special and unique. Leslie, you say that there are mericlones. Do you know a source? I can't find them in the internet.


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## Paphman910 (Apr 5, 2021)

My Green Pets said:


> I have about 50 rex seedlings from Peruflora on their way to the US at the end of this month. Flamea, splash, semi-alba, rosita, and ayacucho forms. Hope to be able to show off their flowers before I'm 50



Would love to see the ayocuho form in bloom in the future!


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## My Green Pets (Apr 5, 2021)

Oh me too, believe me!!



Paphman910 said:


> Would love to see the ayocuho form in bloom in the future!


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 5, 2021)

monocotman said:


> Leslie,
> Apropos of nothing much, here is the mendelli pincelada ‘Lu’ that arrived a few months ago from Max Strauss. It is his photo.
> Your advice about establishing the imported plant was critical and it’s now throwing several new roots and a second growth at the usual time of year for the northern hemisphere. It ha several mature bulbs so this growth could end up flowering,
> 
> View attachment 26762


That’s a beautiful cultivar.

I only have one mendelii flamea semialba called ‘Harlequin’ from Katia Orchids in Medellin, Colombia in below pic.


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## monocotman (Apr 5, 2021)

As usual that is amazing! Love that lip,
david


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 5, 2021)

Vox said:


> Incredibly beautiful plants in this threat, but that one is very special and unique. Leslie, you say that there are mericlones. Do you know a source? I can't find them in the internet.


Unfortunately this mericlone is sold privately within Brazil only. The only way I got it was to beg my Brazilian importer Orquidero Americana nurseries in Sao Paolo to order it specially for me and to include it it my big order.


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 5, 2021)

My Green Pets said:


> I have about 50 rex seedlings from Peruflora on their way to the US at the end of this month. Flamea, splash, semi-alba, rosita, and ayacucho forms. Hope to be able to show off their flowers before I'm 50





My Green Pets said:


> I have about 50 rex seedlings from Peruflora on their way to the US at the end of this month. Flamea, splash, semi-alba, rosita, and ayacucho forms. Hope to be able to show off their flowers before I'm 50


I can’t access their site... could you post pics of their splash and rosita parents? I’m curious to see what a rosita rex looks like.


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## terryros (Apr 5, 2021)

I like that our little club has started new chains for specific species (or hybrids) when they have pictures. That makes it easy to search for them. We could add to the chain as we have new information/questions/pictures.


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## My Green Pets (Apr 6, 2021)

These are all from Peruflora's spring 2021 list.


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 6, 2021)

Gorgeous! I’d buy 10-15 more purple splash for you to grow out for me ... I just need 1-2 back of my choice lol.


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