# Has anybody used Neem for killing mealybugs in Paphs?



## SuperPaph (Nov 17, 2020)

In recent days, have read about the use of Neem like insecticide, has anybody experience it, please?


----------



## NYEric (Nov 17, 2020)

I use a mixture, water, Neem, rubbing alcohol, Dr. Bonner's lavender oil soap, and for a kicker Merit 75! However, with mealies I only use this after I have removed those I see with alcohol on a Q-tip.


----------



## DrLeslieEe (Nov 17, 2020)

NYEric said:


> I use a mixture, water, Neem, rubbing alcohol, Dr. Bonner's lavender oil soap, and for a kicker Merit 75!


Do you mix it all together??


----------



## NYEric (Nov 17, 2020)

Yes, but the proportions are secret!


----------



## DrLeslieEe (Nov 17, 2020)

Haha you are a riot.
So no reactions to leaf burns or bud damage?


----------



## Tlynnt66 (Nov 17, 2020)

I generally use 1 part neem oil, 1 part castille soap, and 3 parts warm water and it does the trick fairly well. I don't like the neem to be too thick in the mixture because it gets down into the roots, which I have found don't much care for being smothered in oil. The castille soap helps to break it up a bit. However, you'll want to use everything that you mix up right away, as the mixture will harden in the spray tube because of the neem. Hope this helps!


----------



## Ozpaph (Nov 17, 2020)

insecticides work better.


----------



## abax (Nov 17, 2020)

I agree with Ozpaph. Orthene is the best knocker-outer of almost anything.


----------



## Djthomp28 (Nov 18, 2020)

Orthene definitely works better but smells horrible. It's not really indoor friendly. However when I can apply outside, it is in the rotation.

Insecticidal soap works for small outbreaks also. I like it more than neem.


----------



## Ray (Nov 18, 2020)

My outdoor “go-to” is (Orthene) acephate.

I used to be a big proponent of neem oil, but for three failings: the “rotten onions” smell, the limited effectiveness, and I have grown to generally dislike and avoid the use of any oil due to issues with burning and bud/spike loss, especially if plants are warm. Specifically for mealy bugs, which can populate root systems so require pot drenchings, oils are to be avoided altogether.

However, I highly recommend products like Azamax, which is a concentrated form of azadirachtin, the active ingredient in neem oil. Non-oily, it is a contact and systemic insecticide and miticide, affects adults and juveniles (most only affect adults), and is an “anti-feedand”,discouraging critters from feasting on the plants. The odor is mild, and the dried product is not a threat to kids or pets.


----------



## SuperPaph (Nov 18, 2020)

Ok friends, all your opinon are very interesting. Thyank you very much.
I will purchase Orthene, having my first experience on it. 
Some times ago I though in using Imidacloprid, and a question emerge now......Could be Orthene better for Maely than Imid?


----------



## Ozpaph (Nov 19, 2020)

probably.
Alternate them


----------



## emydura (Nov 19, 2020)

Ray said:


> My outdoor “go-to” is (Orthene) acephate.
> 
> I used to be a big proponent of neem oil, but for three failings: the “rotten onions” smell, the limited effectiveness, and I have grown to generally dislike and avoid the use of any oil due to issues with burning and bud/spike loss, especially if plants are warm. Specifically for mealy bugs, which can populate root systems so require pot drenchings, oils are to be avoided altogether.
> 
> However, I highly recommend products like Azamax, which is a concentrated form of azadirachtin, the active ingredient in neem oil. Non-oily, it is a contact and systemic insecticide and miticide, affects adults and juveniles (most only affect adults), and is an “anti-feedand”,discouraging critters from feasting on the plants. The odor is mild, and the dried product is not a threat to kids or pets.



Thanks Ray for your tip on Azamax. I just ordered it. I am having some issues with spider mites and mealy bugs, so this product sounds promising.

I agree with you on the use of oils. I have done some damage to my Paphs over the years using them. Especially with the affects of heat. If you live in a hot climate, I would avoid them.


----------



## Ray (Nov 19, 2020)

Both acephate and imidacloprid are quite effective on mealies. The trick to eradication is how they are administered:

Choose your appropriate pesticide.
Treat three times at one-week intervals.
At each treatment, thoroughly wet all exposed surfaces of the plant AND drench the potting medium, as they can populate the roots as well.
That should eradicate them. If you see a re-emergence, switch to a pesticide with a different mode of action and repeat that.


----------



## SuperPaph (Nov 19, 2020)

Ray said:


> Both acephate and imidacloprid are quite effective on mealies. The trick to eradication is how they are administered:
> 
> Choose your appropriate pesticide.
> Treat three times at one-week intervals.
> ...


Thank you Ray.


----------



## SuperPaph (Nov 23, 2020)

Is this???


https://www.amazon.com/Orthene-Acephate-Systemic-Insecticde-Ornamentals/dp/B008ISRH02


----------



## Bob in Albany N.Y. (Nov 23, 2020)

Yes, that is the guy you need.


----------



## SuperPaph (Nov 23, 2020)

Bob in Albany N.Y. said:


> Yes, that is the guy you need.


Thank you!!!!!


----------



## emydura (Nov 24, 2020)

Ray said:


> My outdoor “go-to” is (Orthene) acephate.
> 
> 
> However, I highly recommend products like Azamax, which is a concentrated form of azadirachtin, the active ingredient in neem oil. Non-oily, it is a contact and systemic insecticide and miticide, affects adults and juveniles (most only affect adults), and is an “anti-feedand”,discouraging critters from feasting on the plants. The odor is mild, and the dried product is not a threat to kids or pets.



Ray - does Azamax work on mealy buds? It doesn't advertise that it does. I need it mostly for spider mites but it would be a bonus if it worked on mealy buds as well.


----------



## Ray (Nov 24, 2020)

@SuperPaph - search for Acephate 97UP. It’s the same product at a better price.

@emydura - over the summer, we had a pyracantha in a relatively secluded part of the yard become completely infested with mealies. They were so thick, the plant looked like it had been sprayed with the fake snow flocking stuff used for decoration. It was literally all white. Three, weekly treatments with Azamax eradicated them. One treatment got almost all, from a visual check perspective.


----------



## Guldal (Nov 24, 2020)

As insecticides in Denmark and EU as such have at large been prohibited for common use by non-profesionals and highly regulated for those in farming, nurseries, etc.


----------



## fibre (Nov 24, 2020)

I've used Neem-Azal, six times after ten days. It had a kind of knock-down-effect at the beginning, most probably from the oil I guess. Unfortunately the mealies are back. 
I have hundreds of Paphs, I can't kill each mealy by hand with a toothpick! I liked to buy Calypso with Thiacloprid, but Neonikotinoides aren't allowed any more.

Any idea for European users?


----------



## southernbelle (Nov 24, 2020)

NYEric said:


> I use a mixture, water, Neem, rubbing alcohol, Dr. Bonner's lavender oil soap, and for a kicker Merit 75! However, with mealies I only use this after I have removed those I see with alcohol on a Q-tip.


Eric: the Merit 75 is systemic and extremely effective all by itself (and relatively non-toxic). Every 14 days for a couple of sprays and you are done. Why all the other stuff with it?


----------



## Guldal (Nov 24, 2020)

fibre said:


> Any idea for European users?



I tried to finish writing my post above (#21) to the end twice, both times something went wrong just before I could post it in its entirety. I actually decided to give up on it, and just leave it by that. But I just can't turn my back to a request from you, Chris! So here we go again:

As insecticides in Denmark and EU as such have at large been prohibited for common use by non-profesionals and have been restricted and highly regulated for use in farming, nurseries, etc., we have had to find new ways for fighting those ubiquitous little bug(ger)s!

I got the following advice from a very experienced and dedicated grower of Neofinetias. It is as cheap and easy to use as it is efficient. I even find it more effective than Calypso (Bayer), that was the most efficient insecticide allowed for hobby growers, before it was prohibited.

In a spray flask mix an emulsion of: 1 ltr. somewhat lukewarm water, 15 ml of unperfumed and uncoloured dishwashing liquid and 15-20 ml paraffin oil, normally used for lamp oil or barbecue lighter fluid (a high-burning kerosene fraction). In Denmark the latter, "tændvæske", can be bought cheaply in supermarkets.
Before use shake it dilligently - during use shake ever so often. Spray the leaves of the plants. Leave the plants to dry.
Plants with a risk for crown rot (fx. Phalaenopsis) or with areas especially susceptible for rot, I dry lightly with a piece of paper towel or with a cotton swab in these areas and then let them dry. If you grow the plants under conditions with better ventilation, than is possible for me, you might not need to dry them as I do.
Repeat the procedure every 5-7 days untill you have made sure the little blighters have gone to bug-heaven or bug-hell (the latter place is indeed where they belong!).
I know people are discussing the length of the hatching cycle of mealybugs, and its implication for treatment. Without having studied the question in detail I would consider 10 days a too long period to wait with the method, described here (as the chemical used is not a systemic remedy), but from an experiental point of view I would consider you on the safe side within the 7 days margin stipulated.
By the way the procedure also applies well in treating scale bugs and mite-infestations.

Best of luck with the crusade on mealy bugs and other like pests!


----------



## emydura (Nov 25, 2020)

Ray said:


> [USER=8900]@emydura - over the summer, we had a pyracantha in a relatively secluded part of the yard become completely infested with mealies. They were so thick, the plant looked like it had been sprayed with the fake snow flocking stuff used for decoration. It was literally all white. Three, weekly treatments with Azamax eradicated them. One treatment got almost all, from a visual check perspective.



Thanks Ray. Sounds very effective. It is amazing the company doesn't promote this more given mealies can be so hard to eradicate. 

Just one more quick question. Have you noticed any sensitivities of Paphs to Azamax? I have a few multi-florals in bud at the moment.


----------



## Ray (Nov 25, 2020)

emydura said:


> Just one more quick question. Have you noticed any sensitivities of Paphs to Azamax? I have a few multi-florals in bud at the moment.


None, whatsoever - on paphs, phrags, phals, a couple of sarcos, and the small vandas, tolumnias, tillandsias and neoregelias on my “epiphyte tree”. I do always try to treat plants in the morning, so they can dry as the day warms. 

The only negative reaction I’ve ever seen was in New Guinea impatiens: We have several large planters on our elevated deck and they are pretty much in full sun all day. One box got a mite infestation and it started spreading to adjacent ones. I mixed some liquid dishwashing detergent with the Azamax and treated all of the boxes. This was during an extended hot spell, and I did spray in the afternoon. Within a day, most of the blossoms were damaged and the plants dumped them. The buds bloomed normally and the mites were gone in one treatment.


----------



## NYEric (Nov 25, 2020)

southernbelle said:


> Eric: the Merit 75 is systemic and extremely effective all by itself (and relatively non-toxic). Every 14 days for a couple of sprays and you are done. Why all the other stuff with it?


Because I like the natural components also. BTW, if you think Merit is non-toxic, I think you better check again!


----------



## SouthPark (Nov 25, 2020)

DrLeslieEe said:


> So no reactions to leaf burns or bud damage?



That's exactly what makes me hesitate ----- when it comes to oils - like neem oil or other horticultural oils etc on orchids.

For orchids growing out in the sun or gets a fair bit of power from the light into the oil regions on the leaf -------- the overheat can definitely lead to unsightly stuff heheh. Might not kill the orchid, but what used to look pristine can end up looking like ........ less than pristine.

So with oils ------ not sure what the procedure is ----- such as to apply the oil and keep it out of the sun for 'X' days ...... followed by washing/wiping the leaves to get rid of residue oil before putting high light on them again.


----------



## southernbelle (Nov 25, 2020)

NYEric said:


> Because I like the natural components also. BTW, if you think Merit is non-toxic, I think you better check again!


The key word was relatively.


----------



## NYEric (Nov 26, 2020)

southernbelle said:


> The key word was relatively.


Jeeze, microwaves plants to kill insects!!!


----------



## Ray (Nov 26, 2020)

SouthPark said:


> So with oils ------ not sure what the procedure is ----- such as to apply the oil and keep it out of the sun for 'X' days ...... followed by washing/wiping the leaves to get rid of residue oil before putting high light on them again.


Always spray early in the day, before the plants have begun to warm up. It’s not guaranteed to be safe, but is the best bet.

Never spray them when they’re warm.


----------



## southernbelle (Nov 26, 2020)

NYEric said:


> Jeeze, microwaves plants to kill insects!!!


Now Eric, be nice! Below you will see what the ratings mean, hence my "relatively" statement. Merit, Azamax and Neem are all in the "Caution" category. Yes, it's a chemical and not considered organic as Neem is, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily more dangerous in use. If I were going to consume it, clearly organic is better. But as far as application goes, the same precautions are recommended for each. Merit does not kill spider mites, and as was pointed out could allow an overrun of those if they are present, but I've found it to be very effective.

"Signal words are found on pesticide product labels, and they describe the acute (short-term) toxicity of the formulated pesticide product. The signal word can be either: *DANGER*, *WARNING* or *CAUTION*. Products with the *DANGER* signal word are the most toxic. Products with the signal word *CAUTION* are lower in toxicity."

*SIGNAL WORDS - National Pesticide Information Center*


----------



## fibre (Nov 28, 2020)

Guldal said:


> I tried to finish writing my post above (#21) to the end twice, both times something went wrong just before I could post it in its entirety. I actually decided to give up on it, and just leave it by that. But I just can't turn my back to a request from you, Chris! So here we go again:
> 
> As insecticides in Denmark and EU as such have at large been prohibited for common use by non-profesionals and have been restricted and highly regulated for use in farming, nurseries, etc., we have had to find new ways for fighting those ubiquitous little bug(ger)s!
> 
> ...



Thank you for your long answer! 

I've tried different kinds of oil-products. Neem for example is an oil-product as well. And I've killed some Paphs by using oil-products. Especially in winter times they are very sensitiv to moisture and rot quickly. 

Over the winter I will treat single plants with Isopropanol when I see mealies pop up. 
In spring, when moisture isn't such a problem any more I will start to treat them with oil again. I've used it every 10-14 days. Maybe that's too long. So next time I will try to spray every 5 days. Fingers crossed!


----------



## Just1more (Nov 28, 2020)

SouthPark said:


> orchids.
> 
> For orchids growing out in the sun or gets a fair bit of power from the light into the oil regions on the leaf -------- the overheat can definitely


----------



## Just1more (Nov 28, 2020)

just received a small bottle of AzaMax and have query regarding the dosage. If I’m understanding I’m to use 2 tsp per gallon. If that is correct my small bottle will not last long at all!


----------



## SouthPark (Nov 28, 2020)

Just1more said:


> just received a small bottle of AzaMax and have query regarding the dosage. If I’m understanding I’m to use 2 tsp per gallon. If that is correct my small bottle will not last long at all!



That looks correct! Although ----- it is all relative when it comes to 'will not last long'. It depends on how many orchids you're treating hehehe.

One gallon is approximately 4 litre, which could be relatively a lot for some growers. And also ----- once we've applied a treatment, it's not like we apply it every day.

Also ------ I hear reports about the smell of Azamax. I haven't used it before, even though I bought some already ----- in case the spidermites do a big attack on my catasetums. This year ----- spidermites attacked one of my paphs. But fortunately were dealt with in good time.


----------



## Guldal (Nov 28, 2020)

fibre said:


> Over the winter I will treat single plants with Isopropanol when I see mealies pop up.
> In spring, when moisture isn't such a problem any more I will start to treat them with oil again. I've used it every 10-14 days. Maybe that's too long. So next time I will try to spray every 5 days. Fingers crossed!



I think the 10-14 days interval would be the recommended schedual for systemic insecticides (as our late Calypso, I think, was). 
If oil-based treatment, I would go for the 5-7 days schedual - if the oil, you use, doesn't have sufficient impact, try a shift to the oil, our Neofinetia specialist recommended. 
Although, I agree with you, I don't think, I would use it on plants with a very delicate leaveage. However, most Paphs, Phals (incl. Doritis), Bulbos, Catts and Sophronitis (that I insist on keeping separate á la Vithner, when on my own window sill) seem in the greater picture to respond with no adverse reaction.

Good luck on the crusade against the damn, little blighters!


----------



## Ray (Nov 29, 2020)

I suppose the frequency of application ought to coincide with the pest’s breeding cycle, which can vary by species and temperature, but one-week intervals seems to be a reasonable “standard”.

I know the acephate 97UP I have says 10 days, but I still go with a week.


----------



## Just1more (Nov 29, 2020)

Thanks for the info. My attack is on!!!


----------



## NYEric (Nov 30, 2020)

southernbelle said:


> Now Eric, be nice!
> 
> "Signal words are found on pesticide product labels, and they describe the acute (short-term) toxicity of the formulated pesticide product. The signal word can be either: *DANGER*, *WARNING* or *CAUTION*. Products with the *DANGER* signal word are the most toxic. Products with the signal word *CAUTION* are lower in toxicity."



OK, but remember, enough sugar can kill you too.


----------

