# Can some one please tell me?



## baodai (Jan 15, 2013)

Vietnamese has never release a single CITES to export Paph. How could this plant be legal in USA?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Paphiopedil...894?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a7d59cb36
Thanks,
BD


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## gonewild (Jan 15, 2013)

Divine Intervention.


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## slippertalker (Jan 15, 2013)

It is claimed that tranlienianum is native to China, hence CITES documentation from China is valid.


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## wjs2nd (Jan 15, 2013)

slippertalker said:


> It is claimed that tranlienianum is native to China, hence CITES documentation from China is valid.



My be from Hengduan Mountain Biotech. They selling US legal flowering size plants. They could just be reselling some.


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## baodai (Jan 15, 2013)

I just checked the CITES database and paph tranlien is from Vietman ( btw Tran Lien is a Vietnmese's name)
I didn't realize how slick is china. They claim orchid from Vietnam also can be found in china, in this way they can illegal import tons of plants from Vietnam and provide CITES so they can export, (oh, I forgot China is claiming Vietnam is China teritory, and all south China sea).
BD


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## NYEric (Jan 15, 2013)

The Glorious Peoples' Democratic Republic objects to your assertions of impropriety in the distribution of our natural resources and our confirmation of the borders with our cousins to the South! Your re-education has been recommended!!


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## gonewild (Jan 15, 2013)

Divine Intervention. Miracles happen.


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## Rick (Jan 15, 2013)

Enough interceptions ended up at the rescue centers that they bred and released them.

I think the first legal batches (in the US) came out of ANTEC from confiscated adults several years ago.


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## Rick (Jan 15, 2013)

wjs2nd said:


> My be from Hengduan Mountain Biotech. They selling US legal flowering size plants. They could just be reselling some.




Hengduan is real

Breeding and flasking, and selling captive produced plants.

Regardless of what CITES has on their documentation, there is published peer reviewed articles locating several Vietnamese species in Southern China.

These have been debated for legitamacey, but apparently accepted enough by CITES to allow the Hengduan produced plants into the country.


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## wjs2nd (Jan 15, 2013)

I have a Hengduan biotech tranlienianum. Hopefully it'll flower next year. How many rescue centers are around? Are there still centers you can buy flask/plants from? (no more ANTEC  )


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## Rick (Jan 16, 2013)

wjs2nd said:


> I have a Hengduan biotech tranlienianum. Hopefully it'll flower next year. How many rescue centers are around? Are there still centers you can buy flask/plants from? (no more ANTEC  )



Several Botanical Gardens across the US became rescue centers.

I'm not aware that any of them became retail outlets. I was under the impression that ANTEC actually curtailed their retail exposure in part to work as a rescue center alowing limited release of propagated offspring.


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## SlipperKing (Jan 16, 2013)

wjs2nd said:


> I have a Hengduan biotech tranlienianum. Hopefully it'll flower next year. How many rescue centers are around? Are there still centers you can buy flask/plants from? (no more ANTEC  )



I have one, along with others coming next month, with papers! So the "cat is out of the bag" sort of speaking.


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## SlipperKing (Jan 16, 2013)

Baobai what's the problem? you have many yourself including the albumistic one.


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## baodai (Jan 16, 2013)

SlipperKing said:


> Baobai what's the problem? you have many yourself including the albumistic one.



Rick,
I swear i have none

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18702&highlight=baodai

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18883&highlight=baodai

my problem is: no one confirm with me that Vietnam is part of China. So, If China issue CITES for all paph (including Apendix I), We don't need to get CITES from Vietnam
BD


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## NYEric (Jan 16, 2013)

This has been brought up previously where it was mentioned that there is a trading place in China where lots of plants from other countries were brought and propagated pre-Cites. Now this does not mean they are legal, just that the suppliers in China can say they are Chinese plants.


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## likespaphs (Jan 19, 2013)

maybe they came in via Canada?


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## Rick (Jan 20, 2013)

NYEric said:


> This has been brought up previously where it was mentioned that there is a trading place in China where lots of plants from other countries were brought and propagated pre-Cites. Now this does not mean they are legal, just that the suppliers in China can say they are Chinese plants.



It's 900+ miles from New York to Tennesse and probably 10 orchid species (including 3 cyps) can be found in both states. Cyp kentuckiensis is found in scattered sites in Ohio, Ky, Tn, and TX(?!?!?!)

It's only 350 miles from Kunming (Yunan South China) and Hanoi Vietnam, and supposedly the native range of slippers in Vietnam is a few square miles???

Despite the controversy, I don't think the natural range extensions of the Vietnamese slippers into Southern China is that implausible.


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## NYEric (Jan 21, 2013)

The Glorious People's Democratic Republic applauds and commends your comprehension and realization of the natural materials shared with our cousins to the south and the fluid nature of supposed boundries set by your imperialistic government.


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## wjs2nd (Jan 21, 2013)

NYEric said:


> The Glorious People's Democratic Republic applauds and commends your comprehension and realization of the natural materials shared with our cousins to the south and the fluid nature of supposed boundries set by your imperialistic government.



Yes, and wither we like it or not, the Glorious People's Democratic Republic are export orchids all over. Unfortunately, for Vietnam, they haven't jumped on the band wagon and tried, legally, to make some money.


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## baodai (Jan 21, 2013)

wjs2nd said:


> Yes, and wither we like it or not, the Glorious People's Democratic Republic are export orchids all over. Unfortunately, for Vietnam, they haven't jumped on the band wagon and tried, legally, to make some money.



It is a bit too late now. They destroy forest faster than "water fall". The Goverment makes more money by using forest land for other bussiness. Do you think they want to collect peny
BD


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## NYEric (Jan 21, 2013)

likespaphs said:


> maybe they came in via Canada?


You did notice how I ignored that, right?


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## wjs2nd (Jan 21, 2013)

baodai said:


> It is a bit too late now. They destroy forest faster than "water fall". The Goverment makes more money by using forest land for other bussiness. Do you think they want to collect peny
> BD



Sorry to hear that baodai. Do they try to preserve any of the forest?


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## Rick (Jan 21, 2013)

NYEric said:


> The Glorious People's Democratic Republic applauds and commends your comprehension and realization of the natural materials shared with our cousins to the south and the fluid nature of supposed boundries set by your imperialistic government.



Your Welcome


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## baodai (Jan 21, 2013)

wjs2nd said:


> Sorry to hear that baodai. Do they try to preserve any of the forest?


 In Vietnam, anything from forest, ocean, (wild life) is a fair game. You can catch a fish from the ocean and it doesn't matter how small it is, you can have it. There're birds if you can catch them, their are your to keep. There's a book Called "So Do" red book (endanger species). If you get catch taking something you are not suppose to (there's a slap on a wrist fine) or you can barter with the officer who catch you and pay him something. Just remmeber one thing: Vietnamese goverment is serve for themself not for the people. Do you think they care enough for enviromental? It's sad, but it is what it is.


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## gonewild (Jan 21, 2013)

baodai said:


> In Vietnam, anything from forest, ocean, (wild life) is a fair game. You can catch a fish from the ocean and it doesn't matter how small it is, you can have it. There're birds if you can catch them, their are your to keep. There's a book Called "So Do" red book (endanger species). If you get catch taking something you are not suppose to (there's a slap on a wrist fine) or you can barter with the officer who catch you and pay him something. Just remmeber one thing: Vietnamese goverment is serve for themself not for the people. Do you think they care enough for enviromental? It's sad, but it is what it is.



It is that way everywhere there is people with power. 
In Countries like *** the normal person does not have the opportunity to pay a police officer or gov official to solve a problem, but there are plenty that do, and do it.


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## Rick (Jan 21, 2013)

baodai said:


> In Vietnam, anything from forest, ocean, (wild life) is a fair game.



My brother is a musician and learned Vietnamese. He lived in Vietnam for a few years and married a very nice Vietnamese woman.

Since he is into music and culture I asked about the music/culture scene in Vietnam. It sounded like the environment is not the only thing getting lost in Vietnam. 

He said that everybody wants to be scene as modern and progressive, and there is disdain for older culture and traditional music.

So it sounds like loss of habitat, pollution, traditional music are really minority concerns while the majority considers these attributes a of "modern" culture.


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## KyushuCalanthe (Jan 21, 2013)

*The future is yours*

Hey Rick, 

Sad to say I have to agree with you. Humanity has hit a turning point in my mind, one where we need to change our "mining" approach to the world. If we continue to extract whatever we can at whatever price then surely there won't be much of the original nature left. 

What that means exactly remains a mystery, but you have to realize that a mere 100 years ago this planet was a far different place. There were 4.5 billion less people in the world and their influence was minimal, yet on the cusp of growing wildly. Vast regions were as yet unsettled and unaffected by human influence.

Today, it is a different thing. No ecosystem, no matter how remote from human habitation is unaffected. While that should surely make the red flags go up, we seem to want to barrel ahead even faster! Fracking! More economic growth! Bigger cities! And so on...

Around 10,000 years ago the great Pleistocene-Holocene Extinctions finished, removing the bulk of the earth's large bodied fauna - what has happened to the same group of animals (average body mass ~100+kg) over the last century is beyond reckoning. Even without the effects of climate change, few large bodied animals will remain alive in nature as viable populations by this century's end. That ought to make us wonder at least a little.

Ah well, just put another shrimp on the barbie and pop a beer and go back to sleep...


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## quietaustralian (Jan 23, 2013)

These are the current regulations in Vietnam relating to wildlife trade (translated in to English) http://www.envietnam.org/library/Law%20articles/Decree_32_30_March_06_EN.pdf Paphs are classified as 1A which is plants or animals prohibited from exploitation and use for commercial purposes.

tiếng Việt:http://www.thiennhien.org/images/Tailieu/Cosodulieuluat/nghi-dinh-322006nd-cp.pdf


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## wjs2nd (Jan 23, 2013)

Their was a show on Animal Plant, I forget the name, where the host was an undercover animal cop. He would help Eastern country's, usually around Asia, catch poachers.

Modern progression isn't always great. Look at all the beautiful home that have been destroyed in the U.S. for "progression".


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