# Paphiopedilum affine??



## Brabantia (Oct 24, 2009)

The last discussions on the very variable Paphiopedilum gratrixianum sowed some trouble in my mind. I think it becomes more and more difficult to differentiate the different members of the "Insigne group". I submit to your perspicacity this two photos of a plant which is in flowers in my greenhouse. 
The leaves of the plant are very narrow (2 cm) and long (30 cm).The leaves base is covered with small reddish brown dots. Is it an insigne, a villosum a particular gratrixianum? Thank you in advance for your always very usefull and well directed comments.


----------



## Ernie (Oct 24, 2009)

I'm certainly not sure, but this looks like a hybrid. 

-Ernie


----------



## SlipperFan (Oct 24, 2009)

I don't have any idea, but it's an interesting flower.


----------



## Roth (Oct 24, 2009)

There has been a lot of gratrixianum etc... exported from Vietnam over the last 15 years.

This looks like an hybrid for sure, but what's extremely strange is that this one looks like a henryanum hybrid. Do you have the history or a picture of the whole plant by chance? If the plant could have been collected, it could well be a natural hybrid, henryanum is sympatric with villosum in some places, and with gratrixianum in some others, so...


----------



## SlipperKing (Oct 24, 2009)

My first thought was a hybrid between villosum and henryianum


----------



## Eric Muehlbauer (Oct 24, 2009)

Woudn't henryanum reduce the plant size? Leaves are 30 cm long...could it be insigne x boxallii?


----------



## cnycharles (Oct 24, 2009)

Brabantia said:


> I submit to your perspicacity this two photos of a plant which is in flowers in my greenhouse.



I had to look that one up! Usually I can recognize a lot of unusual words but that one I'd never heard. There definitely are some perspicacious slipper growers around here which I'm glad of, as I wouldn't have a clue. It does have sort of a 'hybrid' look to it to me, but beyond that I have no idea.


----------



## Roth (Oct 25, 2009)

Eric Muehlbauer said:


> Woudn't henryanum reduce the plant size? Leaves are 30 cm long...could it be insigne x boxallii?



No, there are many large henryanum colonies, henryanum can be up to 40 cm for each individual leaf and make massive clumps similar to esquirolei. Does not mean anything about the flower size, but I found that those giant plants are still giant after a few years in cultivation. There are colonies of coccineum that are very big as well btw, same size as esquirolei. Clearly there are at least 2 very different types of coccineum in Vietnam, big leaves brown flowers dull color, very small plants similar to helenae, a bit yellowish, with dark red flowers.

Add to that that the common type of villosum in North Vietnam can reach nearly a meter leafspan, a hybrid could be that big. About the dots vs. flush at the base of the leaves, I found out that it does not mean anything, some henryanum have dots, some have flush, some have small dots... and some can be confused with coccineum even. 

Actually, since I have seen many 50cm leafspan Phal maculata a couple of week ago with many leaves, similar to a pot-plant phal, and with 40-50 cm branched flower spikes like a christmas tree, I start to think that anything is possible regarding plant size.

Same for helenae, there are 20-30cm leafspan plants, plenty. Still the flower size is not quite related, apart from some exceptions...


----------



## Rick (Oct 25, 2009)

Eric Muehlbauer said:


> Woudn't henryanum reduce the plant size? Leaves are 30 cm long...could it be insigne x boxallii?



I was also thinking along those lines. Insigne X some darkly colored variety of villosum.


----------



## NYEric (Oct 26, 2009)

I'd bet that is a hybrid!


----------



## Brabantia (Oct 26, 2009)

Sanderianum said:


> There has been a lot of gratrixianum etc... exported from Vietnam over the last 15 years.
> 
> This looks like an hybrid for sure, but what's extremely strange is that this one looks like a henryanum hybrid. Do you have the history or a picture of the whole plant by chance? If the plant could have been collected, it could well be a natural hybrid, henryanum is sympatric with villosum in some places, and with gratrixianum in some others, so...



Here a photo of the whole plant. You can see that a second flower is in preparation.


----------



## Roth (Nov 6, 2009)

Brabantia said:


> Here a photo of the whole plant. You can see that a second flower is in preparation.



Would be very fit with a henryanum x villosum plant... I will post a picture of an authentic villosum x coccineum plant in a couple of days if I can, the plant looks a bit the same.


----------



## NYEric (Nov 6, 2009)

It looks healthy!


----------

