# Phragmipedium Saint Ouen flavum ‘Franceville’



## Erythrone (Aug 30, 2015)

Not the best picture of one of my favorite Phrags, which is supposed to be a 3 N (some of you don't believe there could 3 N plants). The plant is in a gazebo for its summer "vacation", that's why you see a strange background (window screen)! The light was quite low for shooting and I didn't use tripod so there is a blurring effect. But I wanted to share it anyway... Grown in rockwool with LECA.



Phragmipedium St-Ouen web by Erythrone, sur Flickr


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## mrhappyrotter (Aug 30, 2015)

Wow, that yellow is more intense than any P. armeniacum I've ever seen. That should be in a breeding program for sure!


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## Erythrone (Aug 30, 2015)

Unforatunately it is supposed to be a triploid...


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## Achamore (Aug 30, 2015)

Stunning! Where did you find that..?


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## Erythrone (Aug 30, 2015)

Achamore said:


> Stunning! Where did you find that..?



DrOrchids breeding (OL)


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## Linus_Cello (Aug 30, 2015)

Erythrone said:


> Unforatunately it is supposed to be a triploid...



I think it's still possible to breed; probably very low fertility rate, but still possible.


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## trdyl (Aug 30, 2015)

Wow! Such intense color.


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## Marco (Aug 30, 2015)

That is a lovely yellow.


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## John M (Aug 30, 2015)

OH MY GOD!!! Gimme, Gimme, Gimme! :smitten:

Wow, I love that. It is so beautiful. :drool:

...And, congratulations to Robert for creating such a stunning flower! Well done!


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## 17andgrowing (Aug 30, 2015)

That's lovely. Congrats on a great looking bloom.


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## Achamore (Aug 30, 2015)

Erythrone said:


> DrOrchids breeding (OL)



Sorry, can you give a website? All I get is a flower arranging site in Palm Springs coming up for DrOrchids.


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## Denver (Aug 30, 2015)

Achamore said:


> Sorry, can you give a website? All I get is a flower arranging site in Palm Springs coming up for DrOrchids.



I think she got it from Orchids Limited as Drorchid is a member here who works for Orchids Limited.


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## NYEric (Aug 30, 2015)

Yay besseae hybrids! It is easy to make 3N plants; 4N x 2N, the problem is in breeding with the resultant 3N plants. 2N x 3N =2.5N - no good, and 3N x 4N = 3.5N - no good.


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## Denver (Aug 30, 2015)

NYEric said:


> Yay besseae hybrids! It is easy to make 3N plants; 4N x 2N, the problem is in breeding with the resultant 3N plants. 2N x 3N =2.5N - no good, and 3N x 4N = 3.5N - no good.



This may be an idiotic statement as I know very little about genetics and unfortunately I think it is a little more complicated, but if that is the case, wouldn't a 3N x 3N have good fertility?


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## Paphluvr (Aug 30, 2015)

Wow, one awesome looking flower! Love the color and the form.


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## Linus_Cello (Aug 30, 2015)

NYEric said:


> Yay besseae hybrids! It is easy to make 3N plants; 4N x 2N, the problem is in breeding with the resultant 3N plants. 2N x 3N =2.5N - no good, and 3N x 4N = 3.5N - no good.



Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that 2N x 3N = 2.5N(99%) and 2N(1%), and

4N x 3N = 3.5N(99%) and 4N(1%).

Or something like that (may be less than 1% 2N/4N)


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## Erythrone (Aug 30, 2015)

Denver said:


> I think she got it from Orchids Limited as Drorchid is a member here who works for Orchids Limited.



Right


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## theorchidzone (Aug 30, 2015)

Triploids are usually sterile or very low fertility because in order to produce pollen or egg, Meiosis is required in both mother and father to produce germ cells.

In the first division in a diploid where there are two copies of each chromosome, normally chromosomes pair and then segregate. In a triploid, the pairing involves the three chromosomes of each type and the orderly segregation is a big mess. You can't split three into two. [I am sure there is some terrible analogy here]

Tetraploids are usually OK because each chromosome can find a partner.
Interestingly, with plants that are pentaploid, sometimes fertility is restored because there are so many copies of each chromosome that pollen and egg get about the right amount.

I am sure a search on the web for why triploids are sterile would yield explanations at various levels.

JC


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## Erythrone (Aug 30, 2015)

theorchidzone said:


> Triploids are usually sterile or very low fertility because in order to produce pollen or egg, Meiosis is required in both mother and father to produce germ cells.
> 
> In the first division in a diploid where there are two copies of each chromosome, normally chromosomes pair and then segregate. In a triploid, the pairing involves the three chromosomes of each type and the orderly segregation is a big mess. You can't split three into two. [I am sure there is some terrible analogy here]
> 
> ...



Thanks for the explanations!


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## Erythrone (Aug 30, 2015)

Achamore said:


> Sorry, can you give a website? All I get is a flower arranging site in Palm Springs coming up for DrOrchids.



Here is a link. As you can see the color is quite variable.

https://www.orchidweb.com/products/phrag-saint-ouen-flava-color-3n~1240.html

This hybrid is not available anymore but, of course, you can ask Orchids Lted if they can sell you a divison. Or maybe they remade the cross? 

Drorchid showed a few other plants of this cross on Slippertalk:

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1716&highlight=ouen

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=958&highlight=ouen


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## abax (Aug 30, 2015)

Gorgeous yellow! I'd almost trade one of my dogs for one
like this...almost.


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## Kawarthapine (Aug 31, 2015)

Luv yhat floeer.

Thanks for sharing!


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## Ozpaph (Aug 31, 2015)

lovely colour


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## Achamore (Aug 31, 2015)

Ahh... I had thought you were referring to some website when you mentioned DrOrchid. He's been a bit quiet lately, and I'm a newbie to this forum, hence my confusion. I know Orchids Ltd very well, been buying from Jerry for about 14 years I think. He creates great plants. But that St. Ouen flavum you have knocks the ball out of the park..!


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## monocotman (Aug 31, 2015)

it is definitely the best yellow phrag hybrid I have seen.
Stunning.
David


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## Achamore (Aug 31, 2015)

monocotman said:


> it is definitely the best yellow phrag hybrid I have seen.
> Stunning.
> David



Yep.


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## eaborne (Aug 31, 2015)

Outstanding!


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## Drorchid (Aug 31, 2015)

Erythrone said:


> Here is a link. As you can see the color is quite variable.
> 
> https://www.orchidweb.com/products/phrag-saint-ouen-flava-color-3n~1240.html
> 
> ...



I did actually remake it, using a 4N besseae flavum. I didn't get as many plants this time, but hopefully they should be available in one to two years. And yes, we may have some divisions for sale as well. I think two of our plants got an AM/AOS from this cross.

Btw, sometimes you can use 3N plants as parents, but the only way you get viable seed is by crossing them back to a 4N parent. And yes, I have crossed one of these 3N Saint Ouens back to a 4N besseae flavum, and did get some viable seedlings to grow. Unfortunately these will be for the most part all aneuploids (almost tetrapoid plants, but missing some chromosomes). Very rarely will these breed, but usually it will be a dead end..

Robert


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## JasonG (Aug 31, 2015)

Love this plant. Great job.


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## SlipperFan (Aug 31, 2015)

Stunning flower!


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## KyushuCalanthe (Sep 1, 2015)

Beautiful flower, but I'm a sucker for pure yellow flowers. Summer vacation in Quebec sounds great :rollhappy:


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## Silvan (Sep 2, 2015)

Simply fantastic!


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## Erythrone (Sep 2, 2015)

KyushuCalanthe said:


> Beautiful flower, but I'm a sucker for pure yellow flowers. Summer vacation in Quebec sounds great :rollhappy:



Yes!!!! Although we always complain about the bad weather. It is our national sport (with hockey of course)


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## John M (Sep 2, 2015)

I keep coming back to admire this. 'Not a word I use often; but, this flower is absolutely "Yummy!" LOL!


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## NYEric (Sep 2, 2015)

KyushuCalanthe said:


> Summer vacation in Quebec sounds great :rollhappy:



Dusty!


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## John M (Sep 2, 2015)

NYEric said:


> Dusty!


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## Erythrone (Sep 3, 2015)

NYEric said:


> Dusty!



Why??


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