# Oil-spray damage?



## papheteer (Oct 7, 2013)

I sprayed some plants this morning with end all II solution with a little canola oil added. Then a few hours after, a brachy leaf developed what looks like ink spots, not on the surface but looks like they're inside the leaves! Has anyone seen this happen before?

Here's a photo. The spots look darker in person.


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## SlipperFan (Oct 7, 2013)

Do the spots wash or wipe off?


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## papheteer (Oct 7, 2013)

Dot, no they are inside the leaf. Looks like blotches of ink. Not dry or wet.


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## limuhead (Oct 7, 2013)

Exactly what is end all solution II? I know that some chemicals, harsh or mild are not compatible. I remember I friend that used to mix fertilizer, fungicide and miticide together for years with excellent results. He ran out of miticide and used a very similar product and cooked a few of his plants. the end all might not be compatible with canola oil...


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## papheteer (Oct 7, 2013)

End all is insecticidal soap with pyrethrins.


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## John M (Oct 7, 2013)

Never use cooking oil, salad oil, etc. on your plants. It's WAY too thick and it suffocates your plant's stomata. Use ONLY horticultural oil at the recommeneded strength. Horticultural oil is ultra-refined mineral oil, mixed with an emulsifier so that it will mix with water. The Canola Oil, etc., will resist mixing with water and it is much more likely to "gummy" up the plant's stomata. Horticultural oil is a much lighter grade oil than the mineral oil found in a Pharmacy, and it's WAY lighter than vegetable oil!

Soap is phytotoxic (toxic to plants). Even some insecticidal soap is bad news for certain plants. There's no way manufacturers can test all plants; so, anytime you use it on something exotic, you are treating your plants as Guinea Pigs. Avoid using soap of any kind, for any reason.

I don't know what you can do to reverse the damage already done. Watch it closely to catch outbreaks of Erwinia and hope. You might try washing the leaves with warm water only, to at least dilute or remove any residue of the Canola oil and soap.


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## papheteer (Oct 7, 2013)

Thanks, John! What type of emulsifier should
I use with horticultural oil?


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## John M (Oct 7, 2013)

The horticultural oil is sold in garden centres as "Horticultural Oil". Most brands I've seen are 97% highly refined mineral oil and 3% emulsifier. The emulsifier comes premixed with the oil. Just use it as it is, out of the bottle. I use 10 to 15 ml per litre of water to kill mites and give plants a nice, temporary shine.


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## goldenrose (Oct 7, 2013)

be careful with brachys, they can be sensitive to chemicals and NO NEEM oil.
I've used Sucrashield with no problem.


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## abax (Oct 7, 2013)

SunSpray Ultrafine Horticultural Oil is a very good oil for using on most
orchids. Generally, I don't broadcast spray it. I get a roll of paper towels
and wipe the plants down on both sides. It's time consuming, but I've
never had any damage on any kind of orchid.

What specific insects were you trying to kill?


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## lepetitmartien (Oct 10, 2013)

There's quite a few products sold here in Europe using canola and pyrethrins, but the idea is also to have the oil hydrosoluble, by soap and/or alcool (I'm investigating this at the moment). 

What bothers me is that the effects in there's bad effects happens after a few days. Not that quick.

In the French speaking circles it's common use not to go after canola and the like, too dangerous for orchids in the clog all department, but to prefer Neem oil and clean it 2 days later. I don't use oil but if I did, I'd go this way with protections (Neem has human side effects)

Now if it was the oil, there would be much more dark spots than these… I wonder…


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## papheteer (Oct 12, 2013)

The underside of the same leaf has developed sunken pits right under the "ink spots". Could it really be chemical damage or does it look like it could be bacterial/fungal? They did develop shortly after spraying with the canola/end all solution. 

Here's a photo:


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## Bob in Albany N.Y. (Oct 12, 2013)

Yes, I also use untrafine horticultural oil. I just bought a 2 1/2 gallon container of it. I just mix it with a hose sprayer that puts the proper amount of oil into a gallon of water. I only mix this product with water.


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## Ozpaph (Oct 12, 2013)

There's no way those marks were cause by spraying something a few hours earlier. You just didnt notice them before.
Looks like some sort of mite/insect damage from underneath.

Organic farmers use canola blends as spreaders - http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/products/liquid-fertilisers/cloak-spray-oil.html


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## papheteer (Oct 12, 2013)

Ozpaph said:


> There's no way those marks were cause by spraying something a few hours earlier. You just didnt notice them before.
> Looks like some sort of mite/insect damage from underneath.
> 
> Organic farmers use canola blends as spreaders - http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/products/liquid-fertilisers/cloak-spray-oil.html



I thought that too but I always check the plant and it only showed the markings on the top after spraying. At that time i checked the bottom and the pits were quite faint. Only after a few days did they become that pronounced.


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## Paul (Oct 13, 2013)

I have to show you photos of some of my plants sprayed with neem oil (total care, for plants only) once to twice a week for more than a month now. No damage, even on freshly deflasked plants. I think it even helps them to protect from infections and deshydratation.


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## Trithor (Oct 15, 2013)

John M said:


> Never use cooking oil, salad oil, etc. on your plants. It's WAY too thick and it suffocates your plant's stomata. Use ONLY horticultural oil at the recommeneded strength. Horticultural oil is ultra-refined mineral oil, mixed with an emulsifier so that it will mix with water. The Canola Oil, etc., will resist mixing with water and it is much more likely to "gummy" up the plant's stomata. Horticultural oil is a much lighter grade oil than the mineral oil found in a Pharmacy, and it's WAY lighter than vegetable oil!
> 
> Soap is phytotoxic (toxic to plants). Even some insecticidal soap is bad news for certain plants. There's no way manufacturers can test all plants; so, anytime you use it on something exotic, you are treating your plants as Guinea Pigs. Avoid using soap of any kind, for any reason.
> 
> I don't know what you can do to reverse the damage already done. Watch it closely to catch outbreaks of Erwinia and hope. You might try washing the leaves with warm water only, to at least dilute or remove any residue of the Canola oil and soap.


Wash with soap?


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## likespaphs (Oct 15, 2013)

but you have to be careful because some soaps are phytotoxic too


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## papheteer (Oct 15, 2013)

I sprayed the plants again but this time with just end all II. The plant developed a few more "ink spots" on the upper side of the same leaf. And after a few days developed pits under the spots. So I guess its the soap/pyrethrum. Weird coz its only one leaf thats affected.


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