# Does Soapy water Work against Soft Brown Scales??



## Happypaphy7 (Dec 1, 2016)

I know the topic of scale has been covered before.
I myself posted once before hoping in search of effective ways to get rid of them without resorting to harsh chemicals.

I had a shocking discovery last week that my big Armeni White has a major case of soft brown scale.
I always check on my plants on their underside when watering.
For Armeni White, I somehow stopped doing that once it got very big. 
I thought I would have a look in a while, and wow~ There were tons of them in all sizes! Lot of adults near the base of the growths and leaves, and smaller ones all over along the center of the leaves on the underside.

I sat down and picked out as many as I can with a toothpick and then sprayed a solution whose main ingredient is a form of pyrethrin. 

I checked the plant today and I see scales but I can't tell if they were dead or alive.

I went to a garden center thinking I would get a bottle of systemic with imidacloprid, but reading the label worried me away. ex) strictly outdoor use only, apply in the soil, do not let the run off enter into sewage system, lake, pond, don't let it touch your skin, ...... This is why I don't want to use chemical sprays. I don't want them on me, and on the environment.

So, I think I'm going to try the old and cheap rumor I've heard many times.
Soapy water. I'm not sure about the effectiveness, though. I've tried it on mealy bugs before, but it was not that effective. I wonder if it was because their cottony body surface protects them?
I wonder if adult scales would be affected by soapy water treatment??

Those of you who have tried it, how do you do it?
Spray soapy water all over the plant, wait, rinse???


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## cnycharles (Dec 1, 2016)

If you use soap, oil or alcohol, stir them all up with a qtip or toothbrush so it can get under the shell. I don't know if soap would work against mealies


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## NYEric (Dec 1, 2016)

Not that I know of. Use a paper towel and alcohol to wipe them off. I would them spray with a systemic to kill the hidden ones. I use a mixture of Neem oil, Doctor Bronner's violet oil soap, alcohol, and for a concentrated kick, Merit. Don't play with scale.


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## Happypaphy7 (Dec 1, 2016)

cnycharles said:


> If you use soap, oil or alcohol, stir them all up with a qtip or toothbrush so it can get under the shell. I don't know if soap would work against mealies
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I once brought home a dendrobium hybrid full of mealy bugs. 
I don't know how I did not notice, but it was evening auction and I must have been too excited.

Good thing I checked right away upon return home. I normally check plants for bugs before buying.

Anyway, this plant had mealy bug inside every single flower, and there were lots of flowers. then, some were hiding deep into the crevice between where the leaves attach to the cane. 
I picked out as much as I could, then I sprayed with soapy water, followed by rinsing with water.
All the flowers wilted the next day.
I check everywhere for mealies and did find a few more hiding in the cane/leaf junction. picked them all out with a toothpick.
I checked everyday to see anything crawling around. 
I kept the plant for a couple of years and never saw any after that.

So, I think most of the mealy bugs were removed by hand picking and washing off the flowers where majority of them were. and followed by more hand picking. Soapy water itself seemed inadequate to kill them.


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## Happypaphy7 (Dec 1, 2016)

NYEric said:


> Not that I know of. Use a paper towel and alcohol to wipe them off. I would them spray with a systemic to kill the hidden ones. I use a mixture of Neem oil, Doctor Bronner's violet oil soap, alcohol, and for a concentrated kick, Merit. Don't play with scale.



I had some of my plants react badly to neem oil or any oil. I think I had problem with other spray too. Plants will turn brown in the next few days or reach near death when the browning was severe. 

Do you use Merit in your apartment with cats around? 

The real pain is that Armeni White is soooo packed with growths (over 30 growths!!!) and I can only reach certain area. It seemed like big adult scales were concentrated near the base of the growths, and I can even check the growths at the center because the plants are too dense in the center. 

I don't want to lose the plant, hence thinking about using systemic. 
I did spray with mild indoor one, but very effective against other bugs via direct contact. This has pyrethrin or similar form of chemical.
I sprayed really good, like half the bottle until the whole plant was dripping wet. The thing is again, I could not get every little hidden corner because of the densely pack nature of the plant, although I'm sure it reached nearly everywhere with the amount I used. 

I'm wondering if adult scales are even affected by sprays other than oils because of their waxy covering??
I've read confusing things about this. 

Now, if I were to go with systemic, I think I will have to do it on all my plants in case they move around and become resistant, then spread again on the same plants.

I check all other plants very closely and they are much easier to do so because they are seedlings or just a couple to few growths. 
I do find that a few others have light infestation also. They are all on the neighboring plants, but this Armeni White is away from these.
With the ceiling fan on, tiny crawlers must have travelled in the breeze and somehow landed on it unfortunately.


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## NYEric (Dec 1, 2016)

I don't have any issues with the cats and the Merit. With Neem, since it is a heavy oil you must also water heavily or else you block the plants stomatic cells. Since we water every day we don't have a problem with Neem usually. BTW, bugs do not get resistant to Neem.


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## Happypaphy7 (Dec 1, 2016)

Yes, nothing is immune to suffocation. lol

By the way, Merit is a granular product of imidacloprid??
They used to sell a small container of granular imidacloprid at Home Depot but I don't see it. Garden center carries liquid fork but the bottle is huge!!

Let me know if yours is granular.
I rather toss in the granular and let it dissolve when watering rather than making dilutions and pouring them over the plant in the tub.


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## Happypaphy7 (Dec 1, 2016)

I guess if I were to use it, might as well treat all my collection.


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## abax (Dec 1, 2016)

I guess I won't mention granular 97% Orthene as a
drench again.


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## cnycharles (Dec 2, 2016)

If you read of an imidacloprid product whose label says it can't be used indoors, it's because of the labeling regulations where some are cheaper and they are targeting the nursery industry. Many imidacloprid products are available for greenhouse or indoors. 
One option for treating one or a few plants if it says to drench is to mix water/Chem in bucket, then dunk or set the plant in the bucket and splash Chem all over it. Can let it sit in there and get all corners soaked, then lift and put into a tray or bucket to drip dry after that


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## Happypaphy7 (Dec 2, 2016)

abax said:


> I guess I won't mention granular 97% Orthene as a
> drench again.



I know you mentioned it before, but didn't you say it stinks for a long time?


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## Happypaphy7 (Dec 2, 2016)

cnycharles said:


> If you read of an imidacloprid product whose label says it can't be used indoors, it's because of the labeling regulations where some are cheaper and they are targeting the nursery industry. Many imidacloprid products are available for greenhouse or indoors.
> One option for treating one or a few plants if it says to drench is to mix water/Chem in bucket, then dunk or set the plant in the bucket and splash Chem all over it. Can let it sit in there and get all corners soaked, then lift and put into a tray or bucket to drip dry after that
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I know a local garden center here used to carry this small container of granular form of immidacloprid, but now they only have a large bottle of liquid concentrate.

I looked up on ebay and there are plenty. Thing is the seller says they won't ship to NY. hmmm


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## NYEric (Dec 2, 2016)

Let me know if you need some. BTW, you really have to be careful handling the Merit.


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## ksriramkumar (Dec 2, 2016)

Apologies for jumping in late, there is an alternative to neem oil. You get Azadirachtin extracts which are extracted from neem and readily soluble in water, I am not sure if it is available overseas but in here we get these products and are very effective for most of the sucking pests.


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## Happypaphy7 (Dec 2, 2016)

NYEric said:


> Let me know if you need some. BTW, you really have to be careful handling the Merit.



Thanks and I was going ask some if it was of granular form, which to me seems like the least of hassle to deal with. 
Powder might easily become breathable. I could wear a mask but you know. 

I also read only oral intake of large quantity by mammals and humans can be of serious concern on short term. 
Skin contact and infalation might be minor issues. 
Animals coming in contact with power might show various symptoms. 
Ask possible carcinogenic effect.
Highly toxic to invertabrea and fish and birds. 
These are about the summary of what I read about warnings regarding imidacloprid. 

I'll somehow find a way to get the granula form. 
I'll go ask the garden center if they stopped carrying it. Then I'll find a way.


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## Hien (Dec 2, 2016)

NYEric said:


> Let me know if you need some. BTW, you really have to be careful handling the Merit.


 Eric, why do you have to be careful handling Merit?


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## JAB (Dec 2, 2016)

www.evergreengrowers.com has predatory nematodes and mites for pretty much every pest you will run across. Safe. Effective. No stink. Do not harm vegetation. Won't kill Fluffy the kitty. Once they have eaten everything they can find they simply die off. Pretty much as organic as you can get. 

Hope that helps,
JAB


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## NYEric (Dec 2, 2016)

Happypaphy7 said:


> Thanks and I was going ask some if it was of granular form, which to me seems like the least of hassle to deal with.
> Powder might easily become breathable. I could wear a mask but you know.





Hien said:


> Eric, why do you have to be careful handling Merit?



Because it is a POISON!!! I hold my breath while I work with it!


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## Happypaphy7 (Dec 2, 2016)

Do yourself a favor and get a mask. It's only like $5 at HD.


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## cnycharles (Dec 2, 2016)

Imidacloprid is fairly safe as things go. It is restricted in NYC and Long Island because it readily binds with water and can move a bit easily into the water table. Since LI is all sand, and tons of homeowners and turf/nurseries etc the restriction is to try and alleviate movement into the water supply. It has/had been used for systemic soil drenching to kill grubs in bagged box store products so in past used indiscriminately 

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## NYEric (Dec 2, 2016)

Happypaphy7 said:


> Do yourself a favor and get a mask. It's only like $5 at HD.



You're no fun!


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## Happypaphy7 (Dec 2, 2016)

cnycharles said:


> Imidacloprid is fairly safe as things go. It is restricted in NYC and Long Island because it readily binds with water and can move a bit easily into the water table. Since LI is all sand, and tons of homeowners and turf/nurseries etc the restriction is to try and alleviate movement into the water supply. It has/had been used for systemic soil drenching to kill grubs in bagged box store products so in past used indiscriminately
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Good to know. Thanks, Charles. 
I assume it does not rarely break down then once having entered body of water?
Imagine the damage it could do to all the little sea creatures.

I think I saw info saying NY state trying temporary ban on neonicotinoids starting end of 2014. I wonder if it ended now or still on. 
I know I saw imidacloprid product at HD during this period in the city though. 
Hmmm


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## Happypaphy7 (Dec 2, 2016)

NYEric said:


> You're no fun!



I'm concerned about your (and everyone else in your household )health. 
It's no fun when you get sick. Especially in a country like America. Hehe

I'm all about safety and good health.


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## NYEric (Dec 2, 2016)

Thanks.


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