# Paph. thaianum: from live sphagnum to mix



## hardy (Oct 23, 2010)

I had some success growing Paph. thaianum seedlings in live sphagnum. I 
kept the pots in a translucent plastic box with the bottom soaking bit in a bit 
of water. I covered the box almost completely and the growth was fine when 
the sphagnum was healthy. But sphagnum growth declines in stagnant 
condition, and after prolonged neglect the moss started dying in the box and 
the paph started to rot.

Here's a photo taken 7 months ago, you can see the beginning of trouble.






I did not do anything much, and a few days ago I found that several paphs 
have been lost completely, and a few were on the verge of death. Ah, the 
evil outcome of procrastination 

Here's my desperate attempt to salvage them, also my first shot at using granular mix for paphs:















Looking much better. I'm growing them in my lab's research greenhouse together with the phals. Will update. 


p.s. This is off-topic but just want to share with you all another evil outcome of waiting too long... :sob:


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## SlipperKing (Oct 23, 2010)

How do you prevent this die off Hardy? Repot into healthy,freash sphag? Or once the plants where established you should remove them from your plastic containers?


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## paphioboy (Oct 23, 2010)

Most of the thaianums look like they can make it... What happened to the AVs..? Too wet I think..


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## hardy (Oct 23, 2010)

Rick, you're right, the die off could well have been prevented. I should have weaned them off to regular media while they were still growing strong in the live moss, or at least change the live sphagnum perhaps, or, frequent spraying or leaching of the moss might have kept it alive.

Thanks, Paphioboy, I hope there won't be too many losses in the coming weeks.  African violets can handle wetness and humidity well when conditions are right, but too cold or too warm and off they go. That box was cooked in the summer heat, they turned black and melted into nothing....


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## NYEric (Oct 26, 2010)

Good luck w/ the baby thais!


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## hardy (Jul 10, 2011)

An update, the plants made very little growth in the past nine months or so...





The ailing plants grown in live sphagnum is making a recovery.





I'm wondering if I should pot all the seedlings back to live sphagnum, and give them frequent foliar fertilizer. But will need to start growing some live moss again for that. Probably will take a couple months before I have enough moss.


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## Rick (Jul 10, 2011)

Hardy 

You should read through my thread on Basket Culture.

Also go through the recent thread on nutrition for Paph concolor.

If you like to water lots like me and using sphagnum I would encourage you to drill lots of holes in your pots (if not going to baskets) and add some sand.

Also be careful with the balance of K compared to Ca and Mg.

I'm pretty convinced that paphs and potting mixes are easily "poisoned" by excess potassium in common balanced fertilizer mixes.

My growth rate of all paph seedlings has improved drastically after making concerted effort increase divalent cations relative to monovalents.


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## hardy (Jul 10, 2011)

Hi Rick, thanks for the useful information!
I'll find time to carefully read through the posts. 
Thanks again


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## Shiva (Jul 10, 2011)

Hardy, how exactly do you grow live sphagnum so quickly?


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## NYEric (Jul 11, 2011)

The issue might be the fertilizing. Do paphs need that much fertilizing as seedlings?


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## TyroneGenade (Jul 11, 2011)

Spaghnum and stagnant conditions are a problem but I think I have over come that based on the difference between my old and my current method which are running concurrently.

I got a big bag of live moss from the mountain and potted it in clear plastic pots. I had melted holes into the sides of the pots before. I then rested the pot in a plastic cup which held a little water and used another plastic cup to cover the pot (the cup rests on the pot rim). This maintained the humidity but due to the wholes in the sides of the pot the moss could still breath. The water in the bottom cup was used within a few days and then regularly replaced. So far so good, and the moss has not taken offense to foliar feeding. The seedlings in the moss are also happy.

For the seedlings, you could wrap their roots in a live sphagnum ball and then pot them directly into crushed brick chips. I've done this with my Brachies and they seem quite happy. Not much growth, but it is winter here.


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## Rick (Jul 11, 2011)

NYEric said:


> The issue might be the fertilizing. Do paphs need that much fertilizing as seedlings?



Troy Meyers pots up all kinds of stuff (not just paphs) in sphagnum. The guidance is on his website. But I seem to recall he only added fertilizer once (when presoaking the dead sphag), wrung it out and didn't reapply for quite a while after the initial setup.

I think given the small size of the seedlings the live moss is probably getting more out of the feeding than the paph seedlings.

If the moss starts to get over run with algae then there is probably an overabundance of fertilizer.


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## hardy (Jul 12, 2011)

I think it's quite difficult to give small plants the right amount of fertilizer. They have small biomass, yet the growth increments are large during this period (i.e. they double their size more quickly when they're still young), so naturally they are sensitive to deficiencies. But also because they are small, it's quite easy to overdose them with fertilizer. I think more dilute fertilizer given at closer intervals is probably best for them. Though nowadays I can hardly find the time for even weekly feeding...



Shiva said:


> Hardy, how exactly do you grow live sphagnum so quickly?



Hi Shiva, I find that live sphagnum can grow quite quickly given intermediate temps (about 20-25 degrees), high light, and frequent spraying with dilute fertilizer just at the surface. I find that it also helps to lower the water level a bit, so that more air is available to the capitula.


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