# How do I get my Phrag Grande's to flower.



## emydura (Jan 1, 2018)

I'm mainly a Paph grower but I have a few Phrags that never seem to flower. In particular, I have two large Grande's that have never flowered. They are big plants, one of them has four large growths. The plants grow alongside my multi-floral Paphs. I'm wondering if their culture is incompatible with that of Paphs. Maybe they are not getting enough light or a suitable temperature regime?


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## troy (Jan 1, 2018)

I find phrags grow better with parvis temperature Preference or a lower night temp. Drop


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## emydura (Jan 1, 2018)

troy said:


> I find phrags grow better with parvis temperature Preference or a lower night temp. Drop



The minimum temperature they would ever receive are about 15 to 16 degrees celsius.


When would I expect to flower such a hybrid? Are they seasonal?


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## blondie (Jan 1, 2018)

Your minim temps are very similar to mine, I have also found my Grande's don't flower for me, I have had some plants for two year and not flowers. But last year (as its a new year now). They looklike the might start blooming I have been playing with my phrag culture so I think that's but them back. 

I keep mine in water all year and moderate shade through spring and summer and there's a layer of bubble over winter


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## emydura (Jan 1, 2018)

blondie said:


> Your minim temps are
> 
> I keep mine in water all year and moderate shade through spring and summer and there's a layer of bubble over winter



That is interesting. I thought caudatum and longifolium needed to be grown a little dryer, so they don't need to sit in water. I grow them very much like a multi Paph. Same bark etc. The plants look magnificent, they just don't flower. It is funny as I thought Phrags were easy to flower.


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## blondie (Jan 1, 2018)

I grow longifolium in rockrock, caudatum is in bark and Grande are in bark.

The Grande have there own dish that dose dry out faster than the rest of the trays.the caudatum's are at one end of a tray that seems to hold less water at that end.

My other long petaled hybrids are treated the same as all the other phrags.


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## troy (Jan 1, 2018)

Longifoliums grow half submerged under water during monsoon season, caudatum grows in damp leaf hummus, some plants are gonna prefer one or the other, just gonna have to observe closely, I do know they like lower temps than paphs, I killed 1 warscwizi, 2 caudatums, 1 longifolium, and 2 bessea hybrids growing 90 days and 75 nights, held those summer temps for 4 months


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## John M (Jan 1, 2018)

You're growing it too warm. Try getting the nighttime temps down to 10 or 12 degrees Celsius in the winter for spring blooming. Also, while not standing in a puddle, they need frequent watering. Caudatum is dryer; but, longifolium is NOT. It loves wet. So, a cross wants lots of moisture.....AND air. Use a chunky potting medium and water every day or two; graduating to every 3 or 4 days as the mix ages and becomes more "seasoned". Or, use a net pot and water like a Gorilla. However, the lack of flower spike initiation is likely because it's too warm.


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## abax (Jan 1, 2018)

Yep, I agree with the cooler temps. I have about 60 Phrags. in my greenhouse and most of them are either
in spike or bloom starting when temps. dropped to the
58F-60F night temps.


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## emydura (Jan 2, 2018)

Thanks John and Amanda. Some great feedback. Much appreciated. Might be difficult to get those temps in my greenhouse. Maybe in autumn I'll grow them outside for a few weeks to give them a chill. 

I think I have been growing them a little too dry, especially one plant whose potting mix dries out very fast. The plants look healthy though with big luscious leaves. It seems to be a tough forgiving hybrid.


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## mrhappyrotter (Jan 2, 2018)

I'm going to be "that guy", but if you can't provide the night-time lows that other people are mentioning in this thread, I wouldn't sweat it too much. My night temps (indoors) do not get that low, unless I really screw up and leave a window open on a very cold night which is a rarity and I have lots of good success with blooming all kinds of different Phrags (including Grande).

As for the watering, any cross that's 50% or more caudatum (or related species) should be treated with caution. Chances are good it's going to want to stay at least damp year round, and probably outright wet in late spring through fall. However, as already pointed out, there will be some variation in preferences, and by chance alone, you might get a clone that doesn't like and can't tolerate wet conditions.

Unless the leaves are very light in color or clearly sunburned, increasing the light levels would be the first thing I'd try. Even if it's just for part of the year, it'll increase your odds of getting the plant to bloom. For instance, setting it in a bright sunny spot outdoors in the summer would probably go a long way.

Another thing I've noticed, especially with Phrags, is that some clones seem to want to grow into nice, big clumps before they're willing to bloom. For instance, I had a P. pearcei, P. Grande, and others that no matter what I did to try and promote blooming, simply would not do so until they were very large multi-growth (8 - 10+ growth) plants. Once they reach that size, they would then go on to bloom regularly and profusely. I've had this happen with flasklings (or compotlings) where some or most of the plants would start to bloom young and early, but a few stubborn hold outs that would take years growing into a clump before they'd start blooming regularly.

That's not to say you should just wait another few years without trying other things. I know with my P. pearcei I scorched it with tons of light one year after waiting 5+ years for it to bloom, and that was the first year it started blooming. Interestingly enough, though, after that first year of blooming, it went back under the regular lights (T8/T12 fluoros at the time) in the same old light levels that it formerly refused to bloom under, and yet it's been a reliable and heavy bloomer (almost ever blooming) up until I repotted it earlier this year. So, maybe it takes a bit of a shock, change of conditions, or one season of lower temps/higher lights/ more water/whatever -- and then after that, things should work out.


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## emydura (Jan 5, 2018)

Thanks for your detailed response myhappyrotter. I'm hoping your experiences with the plants needing to reaching large clumps holds true for mine. One of the plants really only has one FS growth and a couple of small leads so I really need to give that one more time.


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## SlipperFan (Jan 5, 2018)

I agree that Phrags seem to like brighter light, more like multi-floral Paphs than mottled-leaf.


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## Ozpaph (Jan 10, 2018)

David, Ive had a few grandes that never flowered - binned. You might check that yours has actually flowered for someone previously or get a clone that flowers.


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## Duck Slipper (Apr 2, 2018)

I read a long time ago, somewhere, that if you are having trouble getting Phrag's to bloom, your nights aren't cool enough and/or light isn't bright enough. Right now I have Phrag. Caudatum, Grande, and Sorcerer's Apprentice blooming in a south facing window. I turn the thermostat down in my house to about 64 degrees when I go to bed. This has worked for years. I purchased these orchids in 1998-1999. I also have a 4 bulb T12 that surprisingly (to me) was enough light for caudatums to set buds. With these 2 different lighting conditions, I think it is very important for the cool nights!


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## ehanes7612 (Apr 3, 2018)

Grande seem to be like multifloral paphs..they bloom when they feel like it...I had a bush of a really nice Grande that I had for years..had something like 15 growths on it...one day it just decided to bloom...no difference in temperature or culture of any kind (I grew under lights)...It was quite a display when it bloomed. I have had some other Grande's that bloomed in my greenhouse years later...I couldnt tell you if it was the cold shock..or if it was the cold shock with the timing of a lot of light or what ...but they would always bloom. Given that Grande is a hybrid, it may be the particular clone that may or may not want cold temps or maybe it's just a size issue..if you haven't already, try a cold shock...I have never had a Grande die and sometimes the nights would get pretty low high forties (8-10 celsius) by accident of course...also try it in sync with a lot of light the following day and do that for a few days


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## emydura (Jun 9, 2018)

A few posts I had missed. Thanks Stephen, Ed and Duck Slipper. I really wish the unread post option would get fixed. I miss so many posts because of this bug. 

Stephen - The second Grande I have (it is actually a SuperGrande) is a division of a clone from FoxyLady (ebay seller). It is a nice flowering clone. 

The great news is that my large plant has a spike coming through which you can see below. I think the trick was to create a post on Slippertalk asking how to flower it.


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## Ozpaph (Jun 9, 2018)

I know 'Foxylady', the best phrag grower Ive seen. He has great plants, so it should be reliable if he's bloomed it.


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## NYEric (Jun 11, 2018)

troy said:


> growing 90 days and 75 nights, held those summer temps for 4 months


 Whoa! yes too warm.


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## emydura (Sep 28, 2018)

I finally have flowered one. I must have been growing this plant for more than 10 years. The flowers seem to take forever to develop. way longer than my multi Paphs.


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## Dandrobium (Sep 28, 2018)

Gorgeous! Great colour on this one! Is this the WSG?


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## emydura (Sep 28, 2018)

Dandrobium said:


> Gorgeous! Great colour on this one! Is this the WSG?



Thanks. I'm really not sure. It just has Grande on the label. I do have a WSG but I haven't flowered it yet.


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