# Paph superbiens



## xiphius (Jun 19, 2018)

Always a favorite. The size of the flowers on these (in general) never fails to dazzle me. This is the first time this particular plant has bloomed for me. Also, I really like the unique leaves on this one. Not to mention the pouch is super-dark. :drool:


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## dodidoki (Jun 19, 2018)

very nice classic superbiens...seeing your pic i am very curious about culture....


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## xiphius (Jun 19, 2018)

dodidoki said:


> very nice classic superbiens...seeing your pic i am very curious about culture....



Thanks! Culture is nothing special. It's in my grow tent with my other paphs. Potted in a bark mix with live moss on top. It gets misted 5x a day and watered 1-2x per week.

The setup in the background is the recirculating water table for my phrags.


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## gego (Jun 19, 2018)

I agree with you, the flower is amazingly large for the plant. I also have two with flowers right now. The mottled leaves are not typical in that they have more light color with very few dark mottling. Big pouch too..

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## Ozpaph (Jun 19, 2018)

leaves are to die for


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## NYEric (Jun 20, 2018)

Nice, I'm trying to tell if this is superbiens or v. curtsii. Can you post a photo of the plant in natural light, thanks.


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## paworsport (Jun 20, 2018)

Marvelous
My favorite species for longtime


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## xiphius (Jun 20, 2018)

NYEric said:


> Nice, I'm trying to tell if this is superbiens or v. curtsii. Can you post a photo of the plant in natural light, thanks.



I'll pull it out tomorrow when I'm doing maintenance and snap a few pics under natural light. I would actually be very interested to get an opinion on whether it is superbiens or superbiens var curtsii. It was sold to me as a superbiens, but I've always wondered. It looks a lot like a lot of pictures of var curtsii that I have seen. But then, I am not 100% sure what all the differences between them are... and every time I think I am, I find something else that makes me question if I'm right.

Somewhere, I also have the original tag with the parentage noted on it. I'll see if I can find that too. I never really looked into the parents. Meant too, but got sidetracked.


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## Don I (Jun 23, 2018)

Nice.
Don


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## xiphius (Aug 1, 2018)

I realize I am way behind on getting these natural light photos uploaded, but I was having some computer issues recently and things got away from me...

Still interested in any opinions about whether this is a regular superbiens or a var. curtsii. I've always wondered...

Flower:





Plant:


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## Guldal (Aug 1, 2018)

xiphius said:


> Still interested in any opinions about whether this is a regular superbiens or a var. curtsii. I've always wondered...



Haven't we all...see f.ex. the thread by Slipperking 'Will the true superbiens please stand up!':
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46576

Kind regards,
Jens


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## gego (Aug 1, 2018)

This has the typical form of the curtisii variant. The shorter pouch and dorsal. Overall size is supposedly smaller.
But what i see these days are big curtisii variant with elongated pouches and taller DS. 
There must be cross breedings involve.

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## NYEric (Aug 1, 2018)

Guldal said:


> Haven't we all...see f.ex. the thread by Slipperking 'Will the true superbiens please stand up!':
> http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46576
> 
> Kind regards,
> Jens



Actually, I would have thought v. curtsii with bleached out foliage.


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## gego (Aug 1, 2018)

Eric, check the one i just posted. It has bleached out leaves too but has curtisii looks. But size of flower, pouch and DS is not typical curtisii. I think crosses have been made between the two, superbiens and var curtisii.

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## Guldal (Aug 2, 2018)

Or compared to the 'original' superbiens, recently reintroduced to cultivation, Slipperking might be right in his assumption: 


SlipperKing said:


> To me, what has been call superbiens for years is in fact different variations of curtisii



If interested, see the discussion and references in the whole thread, "Will the true superbiens please stand up!": 
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46576

I think, my own conclusion on the matter, can be stated quite shortly: we need a botanist to review/revise the species, including a thoroughly review of the original literature!

Kind regards, 
Jens


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## xiphius (Aug 2, 2018)

Yeah, the foliage has always been that kinda whitish-grey-blue-green. I don't think it's washed out,that's just how it grows.

From pictures and descriptions floating around, I have always tended to lean towards the curtsii direction, even though it was sold to me as a superbiens. But then, descriptions of what actually is different between the two are so vague that it's hard to tell. I'm with Guldal that it probably takes a pro taxonomist and careful examination to say for sure.

...but then... if they are that close... maybe they should just be collapsed into one, highly variable, species.


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## gego (Aug 2, 2018)

This is published by Harold Koopowitz. He believes then that curtisii is a variant of superbiens.





Very obvious that curtisii is short and small.











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## gego (Aug 2, 2018)

On the other hand, Lance Birk separated the two but showed the locations are common in central Sumatra.

Superbiens





Curtisii






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## SlipperKing (Aug 2, 2018)

I will get Harald Koopowitz opinion tonight while at the HOS meeting. I will have both plants with me and the reference book I mentioned. He is one of our guest speakers for the summer workshop, held this weekend. 

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## SlipperKing (Aug 2, 2018)

Ok back from the meeting. One of the last things we do is have a couple of people introduce the plant tables and Harald graciously accepted the Job for the species table. One of his first comments was about my two Paphs and I quote, "We have a couple of Paphs one of which is extremely rare. Which I have only seen pictures of, Paph superbiens." Then he asked, "Who's plant?" I rasied my hand then he tells me "Don't kill it!"
Then he took a couple of pictures with his cell but wasn't happy with them. I offered up pictures I had on my phone, so I emailed them to him.

I'll ask tomorrow but I think he may write up an article because he needed my full name for picture credit.

Harald also mentioned he had thought the two were different species but in a recent publication he again lumped them together. I'm guessing but I think now he is reconsidering. He wanted to where I'd gotten it and I told him Popow. Maybe he'll contact Popow to track down the source.


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## Ozpaph (Aug 3, 2018)

great info


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## Ozpaph (Aug 3, 2018)

curtisii per Reichenbachia print - pre hybridisation


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## Guldal (Aug 3, 2018)

SlipperKing said:


> Ok back from the meeting.....



Well done, Rick! Now we are going somewhere!

Please, keep us informed/posted!

K.r. Jens


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## gego (Aug 3, 2018)

Ozpaph said:


> curtisii per Reichenbachia print - pre hybridisation


Did you post a pic?

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## gego (Aug 3, 2018)

Pretty much all description so far for superbiens has pendulous petals and over all flower is bigger than curtisii.

Rick's has neither. This could be a new species.

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## Ozpaph (Aug 3, 2018)

gego said:


> Did you post a pic?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk



yes, see the other post.


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## gego (Aug 3, 2018)

Ozpaph said:


> yes, see the other post.


Yes. Pretty much the same as the pictures published by MK and Birk. Short petals and proportionally short.
I agree with you about that pre- breeding era.

The recent curtisii have big flowers with long petals and pouches. They are no longer squatish.

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## xiphius (Aug 9, 2018)

Great info guys! Thanks! I guess the lines are very blurred. I am going to keep it as per the original label, even though it seems quite likely that mine is really a curtsii.


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## BarbaraAnne (Aug 13, 2018)

It looks like you grow all your paph's in sphagnum moss.


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## xiphius (Aug 14, 2018)

BarbaraAnne said:


> It looks like you grow all your paph's in sphagnum moss.



I do not. They are in a seedling bark mix that is covered with live moss (not sphagnum). The background of the first photos catch my phrag setup. I do grow my phrags in a mix of sphagnum moss with charcoal and lava rock (sitting in water).


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## Sara_Cenia (Mar 23, 2022)

xiphius said:


> Always a favorite. The size of the flowers on these (in general) never fails to dazzle me. This is the first time this particular plant has bloomed for me. Also, I really like the unique leaves on this one. Not to mention the pouch is super-dark.


I adore this plant and am on my own quest to find a superbness. this is a great shot. this one looks like a mix as many have stated but the longer twisted petals are from the Superbiens side. Id love a clone if you ever put them on the market.


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