# Judging Minature Paph's



## Drorchid (Sep 19, 2014)

I have a question for all you judges out there! How does one judge miniature Paph's? I am trying to breed for smaller compact Paph's (teacup Paph's) that are mature in a 2" to 3" pot. I have a feeling these will never be pulled for judging, because until now the main characteristic judges look for is "size" of the flower and by that, the larger the flower is, the more points it gets, but how does that work for "miniatures"? I am trying to breed flowers that are small on purpose, but still have great shape and color. Do you think there should be a separate category for teacup Paphiopdilums in the Judging system, and a flower also gets judged by it's size, but the smaller the flower, the more points it gets? 

As an example here is one of my Teacup Complex Paph's that I took to a show once. It is grown in a 2" pot!





Robert


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## eggshells (Sep 19, 2014)

Was there some criteria established on judging "teacup Paph hybrids"? 

Perhaps one criteria should be plant to flower size ratio. Smaller plant and bigger flowers should be one of the criteria. Then there should be a minimum size requirement that when it exceeds the "x" measurement. Then it should not be considered or classified as "teacup size anymore".


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## Chicago Chad (Sep 19, 2014)

I agree with Eggshells. I think size ratio is important.


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## tim (Sep 19, 2014)

I think most good judges would consider a flower independent of size. I certainly do - it's always the last thing I look at, it's only worth 10 points, and it can be modified to include ratios and so forth. Judging is not totally objective - it's not robotic, and if you bring in something nice and proportional like this, I think it would be pretty easy to judge it. I like the flower you're showing here.


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## NYEric (Sep 19, 2014)

There is a definition of "miniature" in the Judging Manual. If entered as one the plant should be judged as one.


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## PaphMadMan (Sep 19, 2014)

I would never try to understand what goes on in the head of an AOS judge. Like a member of any other cult their perceptions of reality are too far skewed from the rest of us. But looking at just a few smaller hybrids, it doesn't seem like they have any particular problem giving quality awards for small flowers on small plants. 

Doll's Kobold has several awards with an average width of about 8cm.
Tyke has an award with a width of 7.8cm.
In-Charm Topaz has at least 15 awards with an average width of about 7cm.
Fairy Bird has an award with a width of 6.5cm.
Wossner Zerg has a couple awards with an average width of about 6cm.

There's your competition for teacups, not some 15cm Elfstone.


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## Ozpaph (Sep 19, 2014)

Cymbidiums have size categories and min-catts get awarded all the time. Not sure why paphs should be any different.


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## paphioboy (Sep 20, 2014)

Very cute! Recently saw pics online of miniature brachys in Thailand, looks like niveum, with very small leafspans around 3 inches across. Opens up a lot of possibilities..


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## Linus_Cello (Sep 21, 2014)

If you had a 10" pot filled with a specimen mini with 15+ plants/flowers, I bet that would get the judges attention.


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## s1214215 (Feb 11, 2015)

I have some plants of Paph. Chouyi's Green Apple x thaianum. So far the largest plant is no more than 10cm wide and showing no sign of getting larger. I wonder what a green complex with thaianum will produce. That said, I have seen hangianum x thaianum and that produces a small plant and large bloom.


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## troy (Feb 12, 2015)

Lol.. paphmadman, hahaha very funny


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## tomkalina (Feb 12, 2015)

What tim said......


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## poozcard (Feb 12, 2015)

eggshells said:


> Was there some criteria established on judging "teacup Paph hybrids"?
> 
> Perhaps one criteria should be plant to flower size ratio. Smaller plant and bigger flowers should be one of the criteria. Then there should be a minimum size requirement that when it exceeds the "x" measurement. Then it should not be considered or classified as "teacup size anymore".




Agree! Leave 'Tea cup' for those tea cup.

The 'Ratio' type seems to be another differrent thing that all breeding should lead to anyway.

10 cm leafspan plant that gives 10 cm NS flower should beat 30 cm leafspan plant that gives 10 cm NS


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## Finrod (Feb 12, 2015)

Teacup or otherwise. Wouldn't common sense suggest the most crucial factor in determining suitability for an award be to consider the parentage and what you could expect in terms of size, shape and so on.


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## Happypaphy7 (Feb 13, 2015)

Great comment. 



PaphMadMan said:


> I would never try to understand what goes on in the head of an AOS judge. Like a member of any other cult their perceptions of reality are too far skewed from the rest of us. But looking at just a few smaller hybrids, it doesn't seem like they have any particular problem giving quality awards for small flowers on small plants.
> 
> Doll's Kobold has several awards with an average width of about 8cm.
> Tyke has an award with a width of 7.8cm.
> ...


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