# Clay pots?



## Stone (Oct 21, 2013)

The past couple of decades has seen a preference for plastic pots. Recently I moved a few to clay (terra cotta) and although a bit early to tell, I'm liking what I'm seeing. I believe they have the following advantages:

1 Easier to fine tune the water content in the mix.
2 Roots will not ''escape'' as easily out of the one center drainage hole and therefore will not get ''air pruned'' when they reach the bottom of the pot.
3 Roots seem to like growing on the porous suface.
4 Pots will stay several degrees cooler during hot weather.

Disadvantages:

1 Pots will be cooler than plastic in winter.
2 Algae can grow on the outside of the pot.
3 They can dry quickly.

I think I have solved the above problems by placing the clay pot inside a similar sized plastic pot with a generous pad of wet sphagnum under the clay pot. By doing this one watering will last a week to 10 days or more regardless of the weather.

Thoughts?


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## Ozpaph (Oct 21, 2013)

can you show us some photos?
Have you changed your mix?
Thanks


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## keithrs (Oct 21, 2013)

I like clay pots as well... But it can be a pain when you need to repot. Roots tend to stick to the sides and breaking the pot is almost a must. As where plastic gently squeeze the pot to try to release the roots. Most of the time I try not to use so much organic media.


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## NYEric (Oct 21, 2013)

Repot!?


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## Rick (Oct 21, 2013)

Since I could never see inside a clay pot, things like fine tuning water, and keeping track of root growth were not possible for me. So I did much better in baskets or the clear aircone plastic pots with regard to root monitoring and water managment. 

In the past if roots weren't coming out of the bottom or over the top, root growth was often poor anyway. If root growth was reall good, then repotting was a pain in clay vs plastic. (Baskets don't repot anyway).

The main reason I like clay is because they are heavy enough to keep top heavy monsters from tipping over. So the last vestige of clay pot use at my place is for big specimen Catts (that all tend to grow over the top of the pot anyway).


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## Stone (Oct 21, 2013)

Ozpaph said:


> can you show us some photos?
> Have you changed your mix?
> Thanks



No point showing a bunch of plants in clay pots but after a season I'll take some pics. The mix can basically remain the same because you can adjust water content with the moss at the bottom. So for the brachys ( which are the ones that made me try this really), the mix is orchiata, course perlite, leca and a dash of charcoal. For the others chopped oak leaves and chopped sphag instead of the leca. But I don't know how important the mix is.

I want to get to the stage where I can leave the ''crevice'' dwellers in the same pot for a long time. Another good thing about clay pots is that you can use bigger sizes. So far I've put in charlesworthii, bellatulum, hangianum, niveum, emersonii, concolor, malipoense, leucochilum, henryanum, fairrieanum, helenae, glaucophyllum, vietnamense, delenatii.

The other thing I've found is that must use the Italian pots, the German ones are too slick and not very porous.


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## Stone (Oct 21, 2013)

keithrs said:


> I like clay pots as well... But it can be a pain when you need to repot. Roots tend to stick to the sides and breaking the pot is almost a must. As where plastic gently squeeze the pot to try to release the roots. Most of the time I try not to use so much organic media.



Ah there's a trick to this too! When the plant if very firm in the pot, hold the bottom of the pot with your left hand and with your right hand, grab the base of the plant and pull gently while moving the plant in a circular motion. (sometimes you need a bit of force) The roots detach from the top down. If its moist, I find it comes out with all the roots most times.


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## abax (Oct 22, 2013)

I never ever use plastic pots. I've always found that unglazed clay orchid
pots allow plenty of air movement and transpiration (maybe the same thing?) and repotting is no problem at all if you soak the whole pot in warm
water for a few minutes. I use approximately the same mix as Stone, but
I do add some gravel if the particular plant likes limestone. If I have to
whack the pot with a hammer, I have nice shards to put in the bottom of
the next pot.


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## limuhead (Oct 22, 2013)

Here's a thought. I planted a Dendrobium anosmum in a 3 inch peat pot and then placed the peat pot in a basket. The peat pot was filled with a bark, perlite, and CHC in equal parts. Grown side by side with other plants of the same type in baskets it has a better root system, retains moisture better, and the psuedobulbs are plumper and overall looks much healthier. It has been in that pot for about 2 months and the pot is still in great shape; hasn't fallen apart and the roots are stuck to it. As far as repotting, I got the idea from Ivan Komoda. He plants out all of his compots of Miltoniopsis in them. Soak it in water for about an hour and the roots come off without damage. Just potted out about 50 Phrags the same way and ordered 100 2 1/4 inch peat pots for stuff coming out of compots. Peat pots bought in bulk are cheaper than clay or plastic as well...


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## Linus_Cello (Oct 22, 2013)

limuhead said:


> Here's a thought. I planted a Dendrobium anosmum in a 3 inch peat pot and then placed the peat pot in a basket. The peat pot was filled with a bark, perlite, and CHC in equal parts. Grown side by side with other plants of the same type in baskets it has a better root system, retains moisture better, and the psuedobulbs are plumper and overall looks much healthier. It has been in that pot for about 2 months and the pot is still in great shape; hasn't fallen apart and the roots are stuck to it. As far as repotting, I got the idea from Ivan Komoda. He plants out all of his compots of Miltoniopsis in them. Soak it in water for about an hour and the roots come off without damage. Just potted out about 50 Phrags the same way and ordered 100 2 1/4 inch peat pots for stuff coming out of compots. Peat pots bought in bulk are cheaper than clay or plastic as well...



The phrags are in a basket (in a peat pot)?


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## limuhead (Oct 23, 2013)

Linus_Cello said:


> The phrags are in a basket (in a peat pot)?



In baskets or trays. The Dendrobium is in a 3 inch peat pot, placed in a 3.5 inch basket, hanging in my misting area. Gets watered every day. I even have a few Phrags in sphagnum in a peat pot. When they get watered they seem to drain fairly fast and then stay moist, not wet...


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## gonewild (Oct 23, 2013)

limuhead said:


> Here's a thought. I plantedGrown side by side with other plants of the same type in baskets it has a better root system, retains moisture better, and the psuedobulbs are plumper and overall looks much healthier.



In your opinion why is it growing better?

It would seem to indicate that your plants would grow better if you watered more often, but you say you water everyday.
Too much aeration on the roots?


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## Linus_Cello (Oct 23, 2013)

gonewild said:


> In your opinion why is it growing better?
> 
> It would seem to indicate that your plants would grow better if you watered more often, but you say you water everyday.
> Too much aeration on the roots?



If I lived in Hawaii, I would live better too. =)
I think aeration is good. More oxygen to the roots; supposedly watering plants brings oxygen to the roots. Water every day, more oxygen.


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## gonewild (Oct 23, 2013)

Linus_Cello said:


> If I lived in Hawaii, I would live better too. =)
> I think aeration is good. More oxygen to the roots; supposedly watering plants brings oxygen to the roots. Water every day, more oxygen.



The question is why does the plant in a peat pot sitting in a basket grow better than a plant in a basket without peat pot. Both are growing side by side in Hawaii.
The peat pot would decrease aeration in the basket.


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## gonewild (Oct 23, 2013)

Clay vs plastic.

You should not discount that plastic pots may actually be leaching (or gassing) chemicals that are detrimental to plant health. The belief that plastic is inert and completely safe and non toxic to plants may not be justified.

Clay pots provide a better environment than plastic but are not as convenient. Wood baskets are even better but are even less convenient.

Plastic pots became popular because they are cheap and easy not because plants grew better in them.


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## limuhead (Oct 23, 2013)

gonewild said:


> In your opinion why is it growing better?
> 
> It would seem to indicate that your plants would grow better if you watered more often, but you say you water everyday.
> Too much aeration on the roots?



It may be the plants dry out too fast. My plants in plastic tend to retain too much water when it rains for days on end. Clay pots are a bit spendy when you buy as many plants/flasks as I do. I am not sure why, but the peat pots seem to be the right amount of moisture retention. It may have something to do with the pretty much constant breeze here.


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## limuhead (Oct 23, 2013)

Also the roots seem to stick to the peat pots. I'm wondering if they are somehow getting some type of nutrients that are absorbed by the pots. I just recently started doing this. One plant as a guinea pig, now more of them to see what happens.


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## Linus_Cello (Oct 23, 2013)

gonewild said:


> The peat pot would decrease aeration in the basket.



yes, but better moisture retention


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## Stone (Oct 23, 2013)

gonewild said:


> > Clay pots provide a better environment than plastic but are not as convenient. Wood baskets are even better but are even less convenient.
> 
> 
> 
> Probably true, But if I put all my plants in baskets I wouldn't be able to move in my g/house. The only paphs in baskets at the moment are tigrinum, armeniacum and micranthum. When (if) they get really big I may transfer some of the multies into baskets as well. But I really would like to reach a stage where I can grow most of the others well in pots. Hence the continuous experimenting


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## abax (Oct 24, 2013)

Stone, put some holes around the sides of the clay pots as an experiment.
All my clay pots are orchid pots with holes or slits down the sides and it
works very well. My gh is very humid and I find that the potting medium
doesn't break down as quickly and the roots love the aeration.


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## gonewild (Oct 24, 2013)

limuhead said:


> Also the roots seem to stick to the peat pots. I'm wondering if they are somehow getting some type of nutrients that are absorbed by the pots. I just recently started doing this. One plant as a guinea pig, now more of them to see what happens.



The peat pots may have nutrients added to the fiber. It makes sense that the manufacture would include additives that would give an added growth flush when their product is used.

It may also be the peat is using CEC to retain nutrients from your fertilizer water. 

Are you peat pots 100% peat or do the contain coir?


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## gonewild (Oct 24, 2013)

Stone said:


> gonewild said:
> 
> 
> > Probably true, But if I put all my plants in baskets I wouldn't be able to move in my g/house.
> ...


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## Stone (Oct 24, 2013)

abax said:


> Stone, put some holes around the sides of the clay pots as an experiment.
> All my clay pots are orchid pots with holes or slits down the sides and it
> works very well. My gh is very humid and I find that the potting medium
> doesn't break down as quickly and the roots love the aeration.



I'm constantly battling low humidity. I've done that with other orchids but with paphs I think it may be too dry for my situation.


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## abax (Oct 24, 2013)

Mike, you are welcome to KY where the humidity is ever-present. It'd be
fun having another orchid person here. Have you tried a fogger? I can't
remember the name of the one I have along with a humidifier, but it sure
does do the job...80% or better all the time in a 12' x 28' greenhouse.


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## limuhead (Oct 25, 2013)

gonewild said:


> The peat pots may have nutrients added to the fiber. It makes sense that the manufacture would include additives that would give an added growth flush when their product is used.
> 
> It may also be the peat is using CEC to retain nutrients from your fertilizer water.
> 
> Are you peat pots 100% peat or do the contain coir?



Not sure, they are Jiffy Pots, made from Canadian Sphagnum peat. Could be some wood by products in there as well. One thing I have been pondering, as I fertilize the pots seem to 'fill up' to the top(total submersion in fertilizer solution) and then drain. Maybe minute amounts of fertilizer are embedded in the pot. With the humidity I have the pots never completely dry out. Slightly damp, so maybe the roots in contact with the pot have a constant source of nutrients? I just picked up about 400 peat pots in assorted sizes. I am beginning an experiment this weekend, but my experiments are not what you would call 'scientific' by any means...


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## Stone (Oct 25, 2013)

abax said:


> Mike, you are welcome to KY where the humidity is ever-present. It'd be
> fun having another orchid person here. Have you tried a fogger? I can't
> remember the name of the one I have along with a humidifier, but it sure
> does do the job...80% or better all the time in a 12' x 28' greenhouse.



Yes I've got my eye on some on Ebay


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## gonewild (Oct 25, 2013)

limuhead said:


> Not sure, they are Jiffy Pots, made from Canadian Sphagnum peat. Could be some wood by products in there as well.



Jiffy does make some pots out of coir as well and they also have pots made from a blend of both fibers. They do not disclose whether the add nutrients to the peat before it is pressed into the shapes. But they must add something to help hold it together.



> One thing I have been pondering, as I fertilize the pots seem to 'fill up' to the top(total submersion in fertilizer solution) and then drain.



There's the reason the plant is doing better! The peat pot is slowing down the initial drainage of the irrigation water. When it causes the pot to fill up as opposed to the water just running through it allows the media to become more saturated. This extra moisture lasts longer into the day and so the plant has enough moisture for extended growth hours each day.



> Maybe minute amounts of fertilizer are embedded in the pot. With the humidity I have the pots never completely dry out. Slightly damp, so maybe the roots in contact with the pot have a constant source of nutrients?



Yes probably. But probably the greatest effect is the peat layer is acting as a wall and creating a moister environment for the roots. Doing this also gives the roots a better environment so they can utilize nutrients from the basic media for more hours each day.



> I just picked up about 400 peat pots in assorted sizes. I am beginning an experiment this weekend, but my experiments are not what you would call 'scientific' by any means...



It is interesting that you may have found a simple solution to improve growth by simply changing the shape of some of the common media components.


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## Ozpaph (Oct 26, 2013)

Stone said:


> Yes I've got my eye on some on Ebay



Mike, what sort are you looking at?
I have both a Mist King system - not really a fogger - very fine mist - http://www.livefoods.com.au/accessories/mistking-misting-systems or the US site - http://www.mistking.com/ - run my 6 times days for 1-3 minutes in summer.

or this - http://www.easyorchids.com/shop/details/116/9/hardware/humidifier. Mines worked well for 2-3 years now. Run it 8hrs a day in summer.


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## paphioboy (Oct 26, 2013)

I prefer using clay pots and more frequent watering (more rapid wet-dry cycles) than plastic pots in the humid tropics. But I would never use one with just a single drainage hole. For epiphytes, I tend to use clay pots with holes all over the sides (essentially a clay basket). The roots will cling onto them in every which way and just form a ball but the media does not get anoxic.


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## Stone (Oct 27, 2013)

Ozpaph said:


> Mike, what sort are you looking at?
> I have both a Mist King system - not really a fogger - very fine mist - http://www.livefoods.com.au/accessories/mistking-misting-systems or the US site - http://www.mistking.com/ - run my 6 times days for 1-3 minutes in summer.
> 
> or this - http://www.easyorchids.com/shop/details/116/9/hardware/humidifier. Mines worked well for 2-3 years now. Run it 8hrs a day in summer.



I saw some nice fogging nozzles a while back but can't find them now. But there's a lot of options. How big is the area you're humidifying with the easy orchids one?


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