# Phrag Deflasking - I need help



## Bolero (Apr 10, 2011)

Hi,

I don't have any experience deflasking Phrags and this is my first try, the flasks weren't cheap so I need some help with them. I have deflasked individually into 50mm pots (2 inch) and there were 3 flasks in total. The sizes are quite varied and as they were quite tossed around they had to be deflasked right away. I have potted them into sphagnum moss and perlite.

Also, I have them outside in the greenhouse which is heated tonight to about 13C. The humidity is quite high and the moss is still quite wet this evening. There is a fan for air movement. The dilemma I have now is that I am tossing up whether to put them inside my home so they are protected from the elements and pests but there is no air movement and it's quite dry in here with perhaps less than 50% humidity. Outside is more ideal but they are young and I am thinking that maybe inside plastic storage boxes like I did with the paphs might also work for phrags.

What do you think? These are the flasks, as you can see one flask did not produce many plants but the other two were ok.

The back trays are Phrag kovachii x schlimii 

The front tray is Phrag kovachii x besseae

















Thanks for looking


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## Phrag-Plus (Apr 10, 2011)

When deflasking, I’m always put a plastic dome over the trays for at least 4 to 6 weeks, to keep the humidity as high as possible around the seedlings. The seedling need to get use of their new environment. In the flask humidity is always available and there is no air movement in there... Air movement can desiderate the new seedlings very fast, they have to be come stronger before to let them like that. 

Usually I let the dome over for 2-3 weeks, after that time when I water I open the dome a little like an inches for the day and close it at night. Next watering 2 inches and like that till the seedling get use of the new environment. Dramatic change are often the cause of a lost...

Second; Mature plant can take low temps but seedling usually are suffering from a temps over 18 C. Cold and damp could feverish fungi like mildiew…

Third: I'm always put at least 9 seedling of that size on pot like that. They prefer community pot and grow faster, they are using the available water and the pot is drying a little bit faster. I did aware than seedling overpotted have the tendency to rot too...

Good luck!
Jean-Pierre


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## Bolero (Apr 10, 2011)

Phrag-Plus said:


> When deflasking, I’m always put a plastic dome over the trays for at least 4 to 6 weeks, to keep the humidity as high as possible around the seedlings. The seedling need to get use of their new environment. In the flask humidity is always available and there is no air movement in there... Air movement can desiderate the new seedlings very fast, they have to be come stronger before to let them like that.
> 
> Usually I let the dome over for 2-3 weeks, after that time when I water I open the dome a little like an inches for the day and close it at night. Next watering 2 inches and like that till the seedling get use of the new environment. Dramatic change are often the cause of a lost...
> 
> ...



Thanks Pierre, I am considering the storage box idea I have and putting them trays in enclosed (but vented) storage boxes near a bright window where it's warm and they get protection. So tomorrow that is my goal........right after I spray them with fungicide.

Hopefully they do ok in the 2 inch pots on their own, I grow other genera this way but I understand it's not always ideal.

Thanks again for the great advice!!!


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## quietaustralian (Apr 10, 2011)

I dont seem to have the sucess with deflasking Phrags as I do with Paphs so I wont be much help. That being said, I'm in Melbourne tonight and I beleive its going to get down to about 8C. I would have thought that it would be a bit of shock for the young plants going from a lab to +- 8C.

Regards, Mick

I just reread your post... I must be tired, I didnt notice heated.


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## Marc (Apr 10, 2011)

No experience with deflasking in general but I recieved 4-5 seedlings 2 weeks ago and they were all in seperate 5 cm pots. I repotted them in one big compot and we'll see how they develop.

As far as I can tell the general concensus here on the forum is that after deflasking the plants are best of in a compot.

But I'm not an expert.


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## Paphman910 (Apr 10, 2011)

Phrag-Plus said:


> .....
> 
> Second; Mature plant can take low temps but seedling usually are suffering from a temps over 18 C.
> ....
> ...



I am not sure what you mean by this statement? Are you saying that seedling don't like temperature above 18 C. What about low temperature for seedlings? I have grown many Paph seedlings from flask and they don't like huge temperature swings between day and night. I wonder if this applies to Phrag seedlings?

Paphman910


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## Bolero (Apr 10, 2011)

Hmmmmmm thanks guys, it actually got down to 5C last night but I had the heater on 18C so I am hoping it stayed warm enough.

I will move them inside and try and monitor them here. Might be cheaper to do that also......lol.


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## NYEric (Apr 10, 2011)

warm is better. Good luck.


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## quietaustralian (Apr 12, 2011)

How are the babys going?

Mick


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## Bolero (Apr 13, 2011)

I have moved them inside my home, it's drier but the minimum I can maintain is 15C all night long. So it might be better for the early stages. They are in plastic storage boxes to keep the humidity up and my home is centrally heated so fingers crossed this works.

I will keep you posted, so far they look ok. I heard a story from someone else who had a slug get into his and it ate all but 2 of his seedlings out of flask (ouch!) so they won't have that problem inside.


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## Clark (Apr 13, 2011)

Hope you nuked your sphag.

I skipped a step, and now stay up late for some snail hunting.
Must prevent them from mating...


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## Bolero (Apr 13, 2011)

No I don't nuke the sphag, I think it should be ok.


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## Phrag-Plus (Apr 14, 2011)

Paphman910 said:


> I am not sure what you mean by this statement? Are you saying that seedling don't like temperature above 18 C. What about low temperature for seedlings? I have grown many Paph seedlings from flask and they don't like huge temperature swings between day and night. I wonder if this applies to Phrag seedlings?
> 
> Paphman910



Yes! Sorry for that big mistake and confusion! I was thinking  bellow  18C not over...


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## s1214215 (Apr 14, 2011)

Hi Darren

Good luck with those babies. Look good so far. 

I have ordered 1 x Phrag kovachii 'Grimanesa' x Phrag Jason Fischer and 2 x Phrag kovachii ' Memoria Grimanesa Manrique' x self flasks from Alfredo Manrique and will bring the back to Oz with me. I will have to keep an eye on you and how you fare with these.

Brett


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## Bolero (Apr 14, 2011)

s1214215 said:


> Hi Darren
> 
> Good luck with those babies. Look good so far.
> 
> ...



Those flasks also sound good, see how things go. So far so good for me. I won't be able to grow them all and that's clear from what I have seen so far. But fingers crossed I get a good number going. I can grow Masdevallias, Cattleyas and Paphs from flask no problems but Phrags are a different issue.........


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## quietaustralian (Apr 14, 2011)

s1214215 said:


> Hi Darren
> 
> Good luck with those babies. Look good so far.
> 
> ...



I bought some flasks from Alfredo Manrique about 5 years ago. Last year when I was in OZ I emailed him about some more and received an email from a guy in Western Australia who said he is now the Australian agent. I don't remember his name but I was talking to Howard (Hozat) last week about the guy and Howard knows him.

In regards to thaianum, I bought 4 flasks to Australia last year from Taiwan. I see some of the nurseries in Taiwan still have thaianum on their flask lists. Formosa has 400 flasks in stock @ $75 a flask going by their website. I think you can get them cheaper than that though.

Regards, Mick


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## Bolero (Apr 14, 2011)

I bought my thaianum flasks indirectly from a nursery in Taiwan. The first flask didn't work out but the second one is going ok. At $75 that sounds good, I think the price is slowly coming down for them.


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## Paphman910 (Apr 14, 2011)

Those seedling look healthy and elongated stems! I have seen this on Phrag Andean Fire that I got from Candor Nurseries about 15 years ago. I grew it in moist sphagnum moss in a community pots in ziploc bags. The temperature range from 16 to 20 C in my folks basement. Do keep an eye monthly for new root growth. If you see new roots, start layering the seedling with more sphagnum moss around it. I grew it under 4 40Watt florescent tubes.

Hope this helps!

Paphman910


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## Bolero (Apr 14, 2011)

Paphman910 said:


> Those seedling look healthy and elongated stems! I have seen this on Phrag Andean Fire that I got from Candor Nurseries about 15 years ago. I grew it in moist sphagnum moss in a community pots in ziploc bags. The temperature range from 16 to 20 C in my folks basement. Do keep an eye monthly for new root growth. If you see new roots, start layering the seedling with more sphagnum moss around it. I grew it under 4 40Watt florescent tubes.
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> Paphman910



Excellent! Thanks for the advice, I will do that. I have them next to a bright window that gets good light but on sunny days during winter I will put them outside for extra airmovement and light that's a bit brighter. I should take a photo so you guys can see how they are going.


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## Bolero (Apr 15, 2011)

Here are some photos showing where they are growing now. I think the window provides enough light through the vertical blinds. You can see I sit the lid loosely on the boxes leaving room for air circulation. I will take the boxes outside during the warmer days and sit them open in the shade for air movement. The window faces north (which is good for us in the southern hemisphere of course).


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## quietaustralian (Apr 15, 2011)

I used an almost identical set up some years ago when I was living in a hotel room for about a year. The only difference is that I had 5cm of clean gravel in the tubs. I would keep the water level below the gravel and treat the water/gravel with H2O2 occasionally. H202 was all I could find in Hanoi at the time to control algae etc.

Regards, Mick


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## Bolero (Apr 15, 2011)

quietaustralian said:


> I used an almost identical set up some years ago when I was living in a hotel room for about a year. The only difference is that I had 5cm of clean gravel in the tubs. I would keep the water level below the gravel and treat the water/gravel with H2O2 occasionally. H202 was all I could find in Hanoi at the time to control algae etc.
> 
> Regards, Mick



Actually that's a great idea, I will give that a try as it would help with humidity.

Thanks again!


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## Scooby5757 (Apr 15, 2011)

We have a misting system over a few rows of benches at the Rutgers floriculture greenhouses. I deflasked three phrag hybrids over the past few months and they all went into straight perlite, with a majority of the agar intact (one i did wash almost all away), and sitting in a tray. I was afraid that it might be too wet for them, or what seems like nearly constant water in the crowns during the day when the system is on might might be too much....not at all. We'll see how they continue on....


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## Bolero (Apr 23, 2011)

You will all be happy to know that they are going well. It's still early but the plants are growing better than I expected to be honest. Very healthy and some have established themselves. Hopefully this continues!!


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## Justin (Apr 23, 2011)

that's great. sounds like you are mostly out of the woods now!


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