# Not a slipper, but it did have a pouch!



## AdamD (Jul 17, 2016)

An upside down pouch even! Ok... Non resupinate...

So this




Plus this




Equals this, so far




The cross is Ctsm. pileatum var. imperiale x Ctsm. Dagny 'Falkor', and it was a chance, collaborative effort. Fred Clarke was hosting our OSOGSL 3rd annual Orchid Seminar. It just so happened I had a blooming female catasetum at the time. Now I've never seen the male blooms of this plant as this is it's first blooming. He asked if I'd bring it to the seminar, and also asked if I had any blooming males. I told him I didn't, but might know someone who does. So I emailed the only other person I know in our group who grows catasetinae, Marilyn LeDoux. When I thinned my collection I gave her some things that were near and dear to me in case I'd ever build my collection back. She just happened to have two blooming Dagny clones I gave her, this one and my awarded one. Since I'd always liked this one better, I opted for it. 

The time came and Fred did what he does best, he gave a baby making demonstration with our two plants. Now this cross is one we're just having fun with, nothing serious. But one has to start somewhere. In the future this is something I'd like to do much, much more of with this group. The genetic variation in offspring is so random, color and form between sibs seems to be a crap shoot. The variation in pileatum var. imperiale crosses seems to be even greater than other species within the genus, giving testament to the theory that it may be a natural hybrid between macrocaprum and pileatum. But, I digress...

So wish me luck on this venture! I'll post pics of the male pileatum flowers if I ever get any!


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## NYEric (Jul 17, 2016)

Very cool. Thanks for sharing.


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## Happypaphy7 (Jul 17, 2016)

love the first one, second one, not so much. 

What was your vision in combing these two??
I know pileatum makes great hybrids.

Good thing is that these plants tend to bloom very very fast out of flask.
So I hope to see the results in the near future.


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## paphioboy (Jul 17, 2016)

Nice! I love catasetums too.. In my environment, they are much more tolerant of sub-optimal culture than Oncidiinae..


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## AdamD (Jul 18, 2016)

Happypaphy7 said:


> love the first one, second one, not so much.
> 
> What was your vision in combing these two??
> I know pileatum makes great hybrids.
> ...



The second one is the female flower of pileatum. The males are much bigger and showy. This is one of two orchid groups with flower sexual dimorphism. So the vision was hopefully the male flowers of the pileatum are worth a damn. Like I said, it was a cross of convenience for learning purposes. 

Best case scenario, the Ctsm Dagny flattens out the curled edges and lip of the pileatum and we get some solid reds out of the bunch. Worse case scenario, the flowers are dogs and we get some practice at growing this group from flask


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## AdamD (Jul 18, 2016)

paphioboy said:


> Nice! I love catasetums too.. In my environment, they are much more tolerant of sub-optimal culture than Oncidiinae..



I've seen some spectacular catasetums come out of Malaysia and the Philippines. I've found this group to be tolerant of downright abuse.


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## Justin (Jul 18, 2016)

That is a fast turnaround for flowers. I am growi g the wrong genus lol.


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## AdamD (Jul 18, 2016)

I've seen pictures of cycnoches blooming in flask!


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## JAB (Jul 18, 2016)

Ive got fro Catesetum's from Clarke in spike in 2" pots! And they are super tolerant of abuse and neglect! Great species to work with. Really digging these.


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## AdamD (Jul 18, 2016)

Careful, some get big. Here's the male parent plant


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## Happypaphy7 (Jul 18, 2016)

Yes, these get very big but they come with big showy flowers. 
I'm more of a cycnoches person, though. 
The female flowes are so different and ugly on catasetum! lol 
Cycnoches, both flower types are similar and pretty.

Btw, I thought catasetum was the same in that they make flowers of both sexes but on a different spike, not on different plant??
Your wording made me curious.


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## adiaphane (Jul 18, 2016)

AdamD said:


> Careful, some get big. Here's the male parent plant



Wow!! That is huge. I just acquired my first catasetinae type orchid, Fredclarkeara After Dark 'SVO Black Pearl'. I'd like to get some more, but they need to stay compact.


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## Linus_Cello (Jul 18, 2016)

adiaphane said:


> Wow!! That is huge. I just acquired my first catasetinae type orchid, Fredclarkeara After Dark 'SVO Black Pearl'. I'd like to get some more, but they need to stay compact.



It's even bigger in person on top of Corcovado mountain


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## AdamD (Jul 18, 2016)

Happypaphy7 said:


> Btw, I thought catasetum was the same in that they make flowers of both sexes but on a different spike, not on different plant??
> Your wording made me curious.



You are correct. 

It seems the evolution is trending toward making plants of one sex, in that some plants, no matter their culture, will tend to bloom male while others tend to bloom female. I wish I had 100,000 years to stick around and find out!


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## AdamD (Jul 18, 2016)

Linus_Cello said:


> It's even bigger in person on top of Corcovado mountain



:rollhappy: Maybe in another life


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## Happypaphy7 (Jul 18, 2016)

AdamD said:


> You are correct.
> 
> It seems the evolution is trending toward making plants of one sex, in that some plants, no matter their culture, will tend to bloom male while others tend to bloom female. I wish I had 100,000 years to stick around and find out!



Interesting! If they are stable that way, at least they are reliable. 

My cycnoches do both. 
Last year, one bloomed late summer with female flowers. Slightly larger than male flowers but smaller number, last longer and I think smelled better too. 
Then in late fall, the same plant made makes flowers. 
That plant is now making two spikes at the same time. I am so excited about which sex these will be this time!


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## tnyr5 (Jul 18, 2016)

AdamD said:


> Careful, some get big. Here's the male parent plant



....meep!!!


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## JAB (Jul 18, 2016)

I have a Fredclarkaria that is approaching that size!!! Might have to sell it just to save room. That said, when she blooms it is the most heavenly fragrance!


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## Paphman910 (Jul 18, 2016)

Lovely cross!


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## AdamD (Jul 18, 2016)

adiaphane said:


> Wow!! That is huge. I just acquired my first catasetinae type orchid, Fredclarkeara After Dark 'SVO Black Pearl'. I'd like to get some more, but they need to stay compact.



Fred Clarke of SVO is breeding miniature catasetinae. Check out his list sometime. Anything with denticulatum in it will stay very compact. I'm talking 4 inch pot for multi growth specimen.


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## AdamD (Jul 18, 2016)

JAB said:


> I have a Fredclarkaria that is approaching that size!!! Might have to sell it just to save room. That said, when she blooms it is the most heavenly fragrance!



I had to thin when all my baby ctsms grew up... It's hard to get rid of such beauties


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## AdamD (Jul 18, 2016)

paphioboy said:


> Nice! I love catasetums too.. In my environment, they are much more tolerant of sub-optimal culture than Oncidiinae..



I saw a Facebook post today of catasetums growing in situ in Malaysia... Which is terrible news considering they are not endemic... In South and Central America they grow like weeds, trees, ground, rocks, telephone poles, on the sides of people's f*<€^#& houses!


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## SlipperFan (Jul 18, 2016)

I should have that problem!


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## AdamD (Jul 27, 2016)

I don't want to jinx it, but I'd say it's doing its thing :rollhappy:


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## My Green Pets (Jul 27, 2016)

i had no idea they got so huge. thank you adam d, i'm smitten!! will my cycnodes wine delight get that big?!


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## AdamD (Jul 28, 2016)

I don't think so, mormodes and cycnoches are both manageable sized plants.


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## paphioboy (Aug 1, 2016)

AdamD said:


> I saw a Facebook post today of catasetums growing in situ in Malaysia... Which is terrible news considering they are not endemic... In South and Central America they grow like weeds, trees, ground, rocks, telephone poles, on the sides of people's f*<€^#& houses!



In situ? That's strange, first time I ever heard. Do you mind sharing that pic?


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## AdamD (Aug 1, 2016)

Sorry, I don't Facebook. But I do stalk this page


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