# Phrag. longifolium...



## abax (Feb 21, 2015)

fairly recently acquired. It bloomed two very nice blooms
and is now finished. The problem is brown leaf tips. I've
always associated this with over fertilizing, but it hasn't been fertilized at all and it didn't have the brown tips when
acquired. Rainwater, frequent watering (every other day
or so), high humidity...I've tried to provide conditions that
are suitable for this species and can find nothing amiss.
Can lack of sun due to weather cause brown tips? Might
repotting help? It is beginning a new growth and the leaf
color looks good. I'm stumped. Oh, I have no idea when
the plant was last repotted.


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## Clark (Feb 21, 2015)

It was repotted 18 months ago.
You should be good for another year on the mix.


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## MaryPientka (Feb 21, 2015)

abax said:


> fairly recently acquired. It bloomed two very nice blooms
> and is now finished. The problem is brown leaf tips. I've
> always associated this with over fertilizing, but it hasn't been fertilized at all and it didn't have the brown tips when
> acquired. Rainwater, frequent watering (every other day
> ...



I having this problem, too. I am really hoping for some advice. I was thinking maybe too much sun?


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## eaborne (Feb 21, 2015)

If you know for certain it is not over fertilization, then it probably is getting drier than it would like. Cut the tips back to green growth and then water it daily for a while and see if the tips start browning again. If the brown tips return, then repot as the media may have absorbed too much salts. It never hurts to repot and even though I use orchiata in my mix, it still gets stale. So I aim to repot no later than the two year mark.


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## SlipperFan (Feb 21, 2015)

Leo Schordje says brown tips are from under-watering.


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## Silvan (Feb 21, 2015)

I guess we all have our theories about brown leaf die back (not the dark brown pittings that I consider due to over fertilise). In my case die back occurs mostly
when I over water at certain periods of the year especially when the "days" are
short. Some of my plants dies back when not receiving enough light even when
the plant receive a very light feeding. And since I only water with tap water some
plants shows more light pitting around the tip of the leaf and others when over water or the roots are drowning dies slowly from the tip (starts by yellowing then it becomes brown..but light brown.. y'all know what I mean, right?! )

oh, I forgot to mention that I adjust the ph of my water to around 6.5-7. Last fall I tried not to adjust it and some leaves died back. Don't know if it was a coincidence (we always seem to change more than one thing at a time. )

I have three longifoliums (hinksianum, a 4N and an album) and except for the album the others enjoys quite a lot of light (the album grows literally away from the center of the light fixture (both the plant and the flower spike)).

...and of course, since it's a recent purchase it might only be adjusting to it's new environment and the new growths will be perfect.


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## abax (Feb 21, 2015)

Hmmmm...I don't think over watering, but perhaps these
very dark days could be under watering. This is the only
Phrag. with any leaf tip problems. Watering is problematic
this time of year. I am sure about no fertilizer. The plant
only gets rainwater. I do as you suggested Clark and water this one throughly and let the plant sit in the water
until I finish watering the rest of the greenhouse and then
empty the saucer. I cut the tips and drenched with Cleary's just in case. Actually, the plant looks quite good,but I tend to be a worrier.
This Phrag. is 'Waunakee' x self, I think.


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## Leo Schordje (Feb 24, 2015)

I grow my longifolium in individual trays of water about 1 inch deep. They get watered at least once every 4 to 5 days. I have only gotten brown leaf tips from letting them get too dry. But this is my experience. I fertilize pretty heavy in warm weather, never a problem. If I let them them get dry, I definitely have problems. I've been growing several clones of longifolium since 1992, so I have a little experience. Dry for a Phrag would still be considered moist by a Paph, Phrags really want it wet.


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## abax (Feb 25, 2015)

How about letting the plant sit in the clay saucer in the
rainwater that runs through the pot? Might that be too
much water in Feb. with very little sun? I dropped on the
long. into a slightly larger clay pot. It had amazing roots
in excellent shape, but was very tight in the small plastic
pot it was in. Great growing Clark! Amazing root system
with absolutely no dead roots at all!


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## Leo Schordje (Feb 25, 2015)

I don't think it is possible to over water Phrag longifolium, natural habitat descriptions always include water, splash zones of waterfalls, stream banks, humocks in swampy areas, etc. They do like light, part shade to full sun. The wide leaved types tend to be intermediate to warm growing. The narrow leave varieties can take cooler conditions, middle of intermediate range. None I now of like Odontoglossum cool. Try to keep them above 50 F.

Key to remember - water, if it is just moist enough for a Paph it is already too dry for a Phrag. They like it wet.


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## tomkalina (Feb 25, 2015)

Are you growing in clay or plastic pots?


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## abax (Feb 26, 2015)

I grow everything that isn't mounted in clay pots. I do soak the pots over night before using them. Here's a list
of the Phrags. I have. I have more than one of a few.

longifolium
Appalachian Sunset
schlimii
Ice Princess 'White Angel'
Hanne Popow 'Powder Puff' x sedenii 'Candidium'
Hanne Popow (besseae x schlimii) That's what the tag says
fischeri
schlimii ('EYOF' x 'Little Pink') Tag again!
besseae 'Peach Cobbler' x 'Colossal Peach'
besseae 'Balance' x 'Curvy'
St. Eligius

None are seedlings and several are multigrowth, big
plants in 6"-8" pots. Only longifolium had the brown
leaf tips. Temps. 60F-75F at this time of year. Any
suggestions as to which ones might appreciate sitting
in rainwater? Rainwater is neutral ph and all are in
Orchiata, a bit of sphagnum and a bit of hydroton.
Leo, I left long. in rainwater today and didn't empty the
clay saucer. I've been watering every other day since
I began trying to grow Phrags., but haven't let any sit
in water for longer than an hour. Rh is around 80%
and lots of air movement. I haven't killed any so far and
they look very good to me. However, the leaf tips annoy me
on longifolium.


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## NYEric (Feb 26, 2015)

RH is 80%!!?? That's great! I think my plants don't get that; and they're growing in trays of water! 
Hmmm..Phrag Randy MacDonald; I have to see if I have one..


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## Clark (Feb 26, 2015)

abax said:


> Amazing root system with absolutely no dead roots at all!



The roots were free.


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## abax (Feb 26, 2015)

Oh, which one is Randy McDonald...I've forgotten the
cross. If you need one, the one I have is huge with maybe eight growths. Probably could use dividing.
Eric, I have three humidifiers going 24/7 in my greenhouse, so it's about to rain most of the time in there.

Thank you for the free roots, Clark. Very thoughtful of you!

Now, which ones can sit in water and which ones shouldn't??????


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## abax (Feb 27, 2015)

I'm bumping this thread because I really need an answer
about which to allow to stand in water and which not.


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## eaborne (Feb 28, 2015)

Angela, All of the Phrags you have can be set in water or put into semi-hydro. So just take your pick and try some of them both ways. The phrags you really need to be very careful sitting in water are the long-tail species and their primary hybrids. But again, each plant is different. I have a Phrag. Grande(F1 caudatum hybrid) that is thriving in semi-hydro and loves to be wet but another Grande that will NOT tolerate sitting in any water. Again, all of your plants should do well either way and it is strictly a personal choice if you want them sitting in water.


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## cnycharles (Feb 28, 2015)

I was hesitant to mention any, because your humidity is so high you might not need to keep any in water. Often I think this is necessary because growers have phrags in areas that have less humidity and they dry out a bit too quickly.
That said, I was told by another ST member who traded or auctioned a phrag ice princess to me (I think that was the hybrid) told me it didn't prefer to be in water like that. I had also heard that often yellow besseaes didn't prefer sitting in water like the reds might so if a peach one is less vigorous then that might indicate not sitting in water? Schlimii, fischeri and besseae and close approximations i'd assume could take sitting in water. More easily i'd recommend doing ebb/flood so that way you have more air in the moist media and if one particular plant doesn't need quite as much water as the rest, just lift it out of the tub when flooding the others


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## abax (Feb 28, 2015)

Thank both of you. I'm a bit hesitant to leave them in
rainwater, but will try it for a few days and keep very close
watch. I have two in bud and although the buds are quite
small now, perhaps the additional water will help the buds develop.

Charles, if I understand the ebb and flow, my greenhouse
just isn't set up for it. I'm carrying one gallon jugs of rainwater back and forth to the g.h. with freezing hands
now and don't keep enough on hand to do it. My poor water barrel is frozen! Could you post a photo of how
your system is set up?


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## NYEric (Mar 1, 2015)

I grow a lot of my Phrags in 27 Qt. clear plastic Sterilite trays, with water circulated by a small electric aquarium pump. . I use s/h media, aliflor, in the bottom that sits in the water and an organic mix above the water.
Hanne Popow 'Powder Puff' x Sedenii 'Candidulum' (This one, should be spectacular w/ the light Sedenii!!)

BTW, Don't put the St. Elegius in s/h I think.


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## Rick (Mar 1, 2015)

SlipperFan said:


> Leo Schordje says brown tips are from under-watering.



Mine sits in a bowl of water that never goes dry.

It's kind of buried in the GH, so can't say its too bright.

Some of the roots should always stay wet on this species. Some people who have switched to Orchiata have said the pot seems dryer with fresh mix and it takes a while to break down enough to stay damp.


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## abax (Mar 1, 2015)

I don't seem to have that problem with Orchiata, but then
again, if I mix a bit of the old mix with new mix when I
drop on, it works out just fine and doesn't shock the plants.
Using clay pots seems counter- intuitive, but a well-soaked
clay pot does a good job staying moist, keeping roots
cool and keeping new orchid mix hydrated. My experience may not relate to anyone with less humidity
however.


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## cnycharles (Mar 2, 2015)




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## abax (Mar 3, 2015)

Thank you, Charles. I wondered how you managed the
ebb and flow. So far, watering and letting the Phrags. sit
in the clay saucer filled with the run off is working as far
as I can tell. However, I've only been letting them stand
in water for about a week with water changes about every three days or so. The buds on the bessese 
do seem to be filling out more. That's a good sign I think.


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## eaborne (Mar 3, 2015)

abax said:


> The buds on the bessese
> do seem to be filling out more. That's a good sign I think.



A great sign indeed!


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## abax (Mar 4, 2015)

Eron, I'm trying not to get too excited. The buds are quite
small and we've had no sun to speak of for weeks. The
buds are first bloom on the air layered mother and baby.
Both are besseae ('Balance' x 'Curves') so I have no idea
what to expect. The tag says 'Curvy', but Mt. Prospect calls
this cross 'Curves' and indicates that it's a line bred red...
no photo.


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## eaborne (Mar 4, 2015)

abax said:


> Eron, I'm trying not to get too excited. The buds are quite
> small and we've had no sun to speak of for weeks. The
> buds are first bloom on the air layered mother and baby.
> Both are besseae ('Balance' x 'Curves') so I have no idea
> ...



I think it's going to be great! Any blooming besseae is a spectacular sight to me and they are what first got me interested in phrags! We are in the same situation down here with the sun and we are also practically floating away with all the rain this winter. Oh well, we'll be baking soon enough!


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