# What's the Truth about Hsinying Alien??



## Happypaphy7 (Oct 16, 2015)

I have a few Paphiopedilum Hsinying Alien (the tag will normally say Raisin Pie x Supersuk) that I have collected over the years.

There were everywhere in the flower shop here in the city about 5 years ago, at least that's when I first saw them.
I bought a whole bunch for fun because there were so cheap.
I gave them all away.
Then I saw them the next year with the same tag, a lot of them!
I even bought one from Trader Joe's while vacationing in Northern California a couple of years ago!
Then again, I saw a vendor at a show over a year ago had them too, but all vini, one of which I bought and turned to be my favorite!

Anyways, this makes me wonder about this hybrid.
How many flasks (say each flask contains about 20-30 seedlings) can be made from a given cross? I'm sure it varies but a very willing cross for an example. 

Or is it possible that Chin Hua, who is the originator of this cross, continue to make seed capsules from the same parent each year and make flasks?

Or is this tag just leftovers that are used by some irresponsible vendors who does not give a crap? 

I see the same about this album cross with the tag saying (makuli-curtisii)-Maudiae x Maudiae'Napa Valley' HCC/AOS x Sib.
I have seen lots and lots of plants with this tag coming out in the market every year from at least five or six years ago, just like the above cross.

Anyone know the truth about these two??


----------



## TyroneGenade (Oct 16, 2015)

I sowed some Alma Gevaert "Cellery Seed" x some or other white complex for a friend. I didn't use half the pod but must have got 100s of protocorms... I image that a good sowing would clear more than 1000 seedlings. The plants are quite robust (and the person probably has multiples of each parent) so he could be producing 1000s of these each year. 

Raisin Pie and Supersuk are no doubt available in both alba, vini and coloratum types so an endless variety is possible from crosses with the "Raisin Pie x Supersuk" grex.


----------



## Happypaphy7 (Oct 16, 2015)

I see, thank you!
Didn't know a single capsule can produce so many! 
Success rate must be extraordinary for these, then. 

By the way, I think this particular hybrid is only in coloratum (most common) and vini. I think the parents were all colored types.


----------



## Bob in Albany N.Y. (Oct 16, 2015)

I have a different story to tell. I occasionally buy whole sale for an orchid club sale. I ordered some maudiaes from a vendor and they all came in with only two crosses, that being one of them. The next year, the same thing, so I also started to wonder. Years later I received a few more from that vendor. No way this can still be the same cross. They are just using NOIDs and putting in this name tag. I would still buy from them but tell them if they don't have proper name tags, don't send them. They also started sending catts. and such with no name tags, if you didn't request only properly tagged items. After that instance, I also received other mixed maudiaes with proper names. So my thoughts are that none of that particular cross is properly identified.


----------



## littlefrog (Oct 16, 2015)

Maybe... I would say that if it is a particularly fertile cross the breeder may be making it over and over again. I've seen a hundred or so myself. 

I don't think anything I've bloomed out would be unusual for the parents, so I don't think it is just a case of labelling anything as Hsinying Alien. It is consistently OK. Nothing spectacular, but I've never bloomed out anything bad. If the goal is to sell a lot of plants, I could see remaking it over and over again.

Some crosses proliferate in flask, as well. I've seen that with phrags... About 15 years ago I could have made as many flasks of Hanne Popow as I wanted, every replate I could replate into a dozen more. I finally got tired of replating them, but I imagine I could still be doing it.


----------



## Happypaphy7 (Oct 17, 2015)

TyroneGenade said:


> I sowed some Alma Gevaert "Cellery Seed" x some or other white complex for a friend. I didn't use half the pod but must have got 100s of protocorms... I image that a good sowing would clear more than 1000 seedlings. The plants are quite robust (and the person probably has multiples of each parent) so he could be producing 1000s of these each year.
> 
> Raisin Pie and Supersuk are no doubt available in both alba, vini and coloratum types so an endless variety is possible from crosses with the "Raisin Pie x Supersuk" grex.



How many plantlets can come from a single protocorm? Or is it one to one match? 
I have also read somewhere that sometimes seeds will germinate at different intervals. This was about complex (bull dog hybrids) if I remember correctly.


----------



## Happypaphy7 (Oct 17, 2015)

Bob in Albany said:


> I have a different story to tell. I occasionally buy whole sale for an orchid club sale. I ordered some maudiaes from a vendor and they all came in with only two crosses, that being one of them. The next year, the same thing, so I also started to wonder. Years later I received a few more from that vendor. No way this can still be the same cross. They are just using NOIDs and putting in this name tag. I would still buy from them but tell them if they don't have proper name tags, don't send them. They also started sending catts. and such with no name tags, if you didn't request only properly tagged items. After that instance, I also received other mixed maudiaes with proper names. So my thoughts are that none of that particular cross is properly identified.



Same experience here, I mean I have never ordered them in, but I have seen so many of them for a few years, hence I started to wonder.

Then again, here I guess I should have specified the information on the tag.
It is a sib cross of Hsinying Alien. All the tags said (Raisin Pie x Supersuk) x Sib. I have of course simplified the names and omitted the clonal names and awards attached to the names.
So...if as other members say, this cross has been made over and over again using different plants of the same grex (sibbing I guess), then it is definitely possible and very well explains what's been going on.

I have bought and tossed or gave away so many of them since they were so cheap, like $10 a piece. I even got on at Trader Joe's in California for $5.99.
Then I bought one at a show for $25 or 35. but I'm glad that I bought it as it is my favorite Alien. 

It is such a fun cross with quite consistent and predictable results for the most part, but with some crazy odd balls every now and then. 

Sad news, now these plants are sold for $49 each at a store in flower district here. What rip off! I would not buy any of these again as I already have about 6 very nice ( to my taste) and unique ones.


----------



## Happypaphy7 (Oct 17, 2015)

littlefrog said:


> Maybe... I would say that if it is a particularly fertile cross the breeder may be making it over and over again. I've seen a hundred or so myself.
> 
> I don't think anything I've bloomed out would be unusual for the parents, so I don't think it is just a case of labelling anything as Hsinying Alien. It is consistently OK. Nothing spectacular, but I've never bloomed out anything bad. If the goal is to sell a lot of plants, I could see remaking it over and over again.
> 
> Some crosses proliferate in flask, as well. I've seen that with phrags... About 15 years ago I could have made as many flasks of Hanne Popow as I wanted, every replate I could replate into a dozen more. I finally got tired of replating them, but I imagine I could still be doing it.



Thanks for your input! makes a lot of sense.


----------

