# Carnivorous Plant Help



## goods (Jul 19, 2011)

I know there are a couple of people who grow CPs on here, and they do it very well. Lately, my plants have struggled tremendously. I lost one temperate Pinguicula and a Sarracenia psittacina. Both of these were plants I got this year, but all of my collection seems to be struggling. The Sarracenia put out new pitchers, but they tops turn brown and never fully develop or struggle to develop. 

I grow them in various sized pots sitting in saucers of water that always hold some water. I only use rainwater, but it is collected off the roof.

I can't seem to figure out what's causing this to even come up with a solution. Here are a few of my theories, but I've adjusted my conditions in an attempt to correct these things with no success as of yet. 

1) Contaminated rainwater- I collect my water in 5 gallon buckets placed under the downspouts draining the roof. We have a metal roof. Could the metal be leaching some kind of ions into the water? I've used this method of collection for years and never had a problem with CPs or orchids before. 

2) Bad/ broken down potting mix- The grower I bought these from grows in what looks like mostly peat. Should I change this to closer to a 1:1 peat sand mix? If so, when should I repot?

3) Watering habits- I water about once a week, give or take a few days. I look at how much water is in the saucer; if it's low I water. I always water from the top to flush the pots of any build up and to keep the moss looking green (also struggling). 

4) Climate issues- We've been hot and dry here this summer. The plants were always in water, but we've been HOT! Most of these plants are native to Louisiana or surrounding Gulf Coast states, so I don't really thing this is the issue. 

This is what I've come up with so far. I can provide pictures of the leaf damage I described, set up, etc. if that would help.


----------



## goldenrose (Jul 19, 2011)

Hmmm .... 
I'm a bit new at this but I have to wonder if because they're potted if that's not part of the problem .....
Yes, they are native to your part of the country, but it's my understanding that CPs can take the heat - hot tops, COOL feet and that's what potted plants are missing. ???? my 2 cents worth.
Do you have a TDS meter? TDS meter doesn't measure the possible containments that you've mentioned but it's one thing you could eliminate.


----------



## Paphman910 (Jul 19, 2011)

Check your pH of your water and TDS!

Paphman910


----------



## chrismende (Jul 19, 2011)

First - if it's been too hot, possibly the pots aren't able to keep the level of "cool feet" that goldenrose mentions. I agree that it's likely that your water may be the problem. It's also possible that sun or brightest shaded light could have browned the tops of the Sarracenia if the tops were really tender at the time.
What did the Ping look like when it was dying?

I'd recommend joining the International Carnivorous Plant Society!http://www.carnivorousplants.org/


----------



## goods (Jul 19, 2011)

I checked the pH of the water and it's around 5 maybe a little lower. This seems acidic to me, but I know these like more acidic conditions than other plants. 

I don't currently have a TDS meter to test that. Most of the plants' pots are sitting almost totally in water, so their roots are more or less submerged. It is possible that the water is still staying too hot.


----------



## likespaphs (Jul 19, 2011)

do the plants need to be raised a little bit? is too much of the plant underwater?


----------



## goldenrose (Jul 19, 2011)

???? what size are your pots? how much of the pot is submerged in water? how many hours of full sun are they getting?
The pings are prone to rot so if they're planted too deep then they're even more prone to rot. One could gently pull some potting mix away from the base of the plant & replace it with pea gravel.
Now is not an appropriate time to repot, the roots already sound stressed, don't stress them anymore.


----------



## Eric Muehlbauer (Jul 20, 2011)

Grow them in the ground. Take a big plastic container, like a laundry bin. Slash some drainage slits in the UPPER portion, about an inch or two below the rim. Dig a hole big enough to set the entire container in the ground up to its rim. Fill with a sand and peat/sphagnum mixture, top off with sphagnum. Plant them directly into it. A certain amount of die-off is to be expected. Here in NY, I cover the "bog" with evergreen branches in fall, but where you are you can probably leave it uncovered all year.


----------



## Andrew (Jul 20, 2011)

What is your humidity like? I find Sarra's aren't usually bothered by hot weather. My CP glasshouse regularly gets summer maximums into the high 30oC's to low 40oCs, occassionally hitting 50oC and my Sarra's don't seem to care. However, if you combine hot weather with low humidity and especially hot, dry winds the pitchers can brown off easily. 

Rhizome rot can also cause browning although this shows up as the pitchers looking water stressed (wrinkled) and dying off before they mature properly rather than burning at the tops of otherwise healthy pitchers. IME it's usually results from overwatering (keeping the water level too high for prolonged periods) but it usually affects individual plants rather than your entire collection which seems to be your case. Rotting rhizomes feel spongy and when you cut through them they're brown and soft as opposed to the firm, white, live rhizome or the woody, brown, old rhizome. 

With regard to your psittacina, this species can be temperamental and you wouldn't be the first person to lose this species. They seem to like/need deeper water than other Sarra's. I keep the water to 1/2 the pot depth.



goods said:


> The grower I bought these from grows in what looks like mostly peat. Should I change this to closer to a 1:1 peat sand mix? If so, when should I repot?



Sarra's should be repotted in winter-early spring. However, I've repotted ailing plants year-round and if you keep them shaded and protected from extreme weather for a few weeks while they settle into the new mix, they bounce back fine. They don't enjoy root disturbance but they do get over it. If you think the problem is just due to old mix, keep the water level in the tray low (~1/2") and stop flushing the pot from above so the mix stays a little drier. I don't know whether they've changed practices since they moved to their new set up but Triffid Park, one of the major CP nurseries in Australia, used to reuse their peat mix well beyond what most growers would consider to be a reasonable use by date. However, they grow their plants on capillary mats so the pots are never saturated and their Sarras are excellent. As for the mix, personally, I prefer a heavier mix than 1 peat: 1 sand for Sarra's. I use 2 peat: 1 perlite but a lot of growers in my area use 4 peat:1 sand with outstanding results.


----------



## fbrem (Jul 20, 2011)

I'll agree with most and say the heat at the roots is the first problem I'd try to fix, probably want to repot too, like you said peat and sand, and maybe perlite if you can't sink the roots to keep them cooler. You could try a larger above ground bog, I've grown those well here. Also summer is hard on pitchers that grew in the spring, I get lots of the big fat pitchers in the spring which always turn brown in the heat of summer, but they are generally replaced by smaller healthy pitchers conditioned to summer growth.

Forrest


----------



## goods (Jul 20, 2011)

Thanks for all the responses!

I'm not sure if the pots should be raised. I grew them like this last year and didn't have problems. I'll post pictures of how I currently have them growing and see what everyone thinks.

I'd like to plant these all in a bog in the ground, but I'm still in college. I keep these at home while I'm away, but I will want to take them with me when I go. I've been planning to make a large bog to keep all of them in above ground, but I was afraid to repot as this is not the correct season. 

Andrew- Our humidity is usually >50% most of the year. I live within or just outside of these plants' native ranges, and most of these were grown from seed at a local grower's house. I have had both young pitchers and previously mature pitchers turn brown on the tops and slowly die off. The ones that have died already do not look the same as an orchid when it rots if that helps at all. The leaves turn crispy and not mushy. Not even sure if that matters.

I may go with an above ground large bog if it would be better to repot now. I'll add pictures probably tomorrow or later tonight because I think that will help better diagnose the problem and then go from there.


----------



## Kevin (Jul 21, 2011)

What species, other than what you have mentioned, do you have in your collection? Which is the 'temperate Ping' you have? From what I have heard of P. psittacina, they like to be almost submerged in water.


----------



## goods (Jul 21, 2011)

I currently have S. rubra, S. rosea, S. purpurea, S. leucophylla, Pinguicula planifolia, Pinguicula primuliflora, and Drosera brevifolia. I lost one of the two Pings. I think it was the priumliflora but not totally sure. The rosea and purpurea look the best. They only have burned leaf tips. 

I had the psittacina pot a little more than 50% submerged. Maybe the water level wasn't high enough.

Here are a few pictures of what I'm describing. The first is what's left of S. leucophylla. The second is S. rubra, and the third is part of my growing area to show how much of the pots are submerged in water.


----------



## paphioboy (Jul 22, 2011)

Take them out of the pot and check the rhizomes and roots. First 2 look like rhizome rot to me, because of the many brown pitchers.. Ping primuliflora is a weed, grows very easily and very tolerant. I never have problems with mine..


----------



## goods (Jul 22, 2011)

Is there any treatment that can save them if it is rhizome rot?


----------



## paphioboy (Jul 22, 2011)

goods said:


> Is there any treatment that can save them if it is rhizome rot?



I do not use fungicides in my collection. I would cut off the infected part and making sure none of the healthy part still shows any brown/black discoloration. Sarras can survive with very little mature rhizome, provided you have a healthy rosette of pitchers. Then replant in fresh sphag (I use the dead stuff).


----------



## Andrew (Jul 25, 2011)

Paphioboy has given some good advice for treating the rot. As far as how you're growing the plants, it might be the angle of the photo but either your water level looks too high or your pots are too squat, particularly for your upright Sarras. Your plants also look like they're not getting enough light. How much sun are they getting?


----------

