# How to represent a genealogical tree with complex ancestry



## Secundino (Dec 11, 2015)

I'm trying to find out the ancestry of one of Yamamotos Dendrobiums (Dendr. Comet King) and so far have managed to find the maternal ancestors (89 times crossed with _nobile_ ... it is really complex!) This - well documented at rhs - is the easy (but time consuming) part. 

But how on earth do you represent this, in a visual appealing but space saving way? Has anyone here done it and can help?
Thank you!


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## gonewild (Dec 11, 2015)

You have to make a Family Forest.


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## Ozpaph (Dec 11, 2015)

why not use orchidwiz?


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## gonewild (Dec 11, 2015)

Nobile used 89 times. Over howw many years?

Nobile is a very common ancestor but unless the same nobile clone was used each time then each nobile use needs to be treated as a separate genetic entry. but then that complicates the tree with parentage of each nobile clone used. You need a big piece of paper!

If you want to illustrate it visually you might use a 3D approach and connect each crossing together with strings of different colors.


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## Secundino (Dec 11, 2015)

I'm on my way ... as I have no access to Orchidwiz, I'm compiling myself. That's not the problem. The difficult step is how to represent it. 

The first half is nearly done - have a look ... as to now, the oldest cross is Dend. Ainswworthii from 1874 by Dr. Ainsworth. But Veitch and Sanders have their share, too, until in the sixties Yamamoto begins an very extense/intense breeding program. No wonder his plants look like they look!


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## Secundino (Dec 11, 2015)

And this is the culprit:


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## SlipperFan (Dec 11, 2015)

What a forest for that flower!


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## naoki (Dec 11, 2015)

Looks like that you figured out how to plot. Graphviz could be a good program if you have a huge pedigree (it is probably an overkill, though).

http://www.graphviz.org

If you know R, there are also several pedigree type packages (kinship2 and Genetic Analysis Package), which can make pedigree figures.


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## Secundino (Dec 12, 2015)

Somehow - but I cannot copy and paste complex elements - 'sub-trees' like Lady Colman e.g. - that appear more than once and I'd need to extend the page on the right side, but the program just allows the left side ... my pc skills are rudimentary, and I'm afraid I can not use your links, naoki, for the same reason, but thank you all the same. 

But it has been a incredible piece of understanding; 12 generations extending to the beginnings of orchid hybridisation, six species involved (so far - still on the first parent), the recurrent use of some early hybrids (or special clones) which must have been outstanding for some reason (I still have to find pictures of them) and it seems it takes this route to fix the characteristics that distinguish a Yamamoto Dendrobium, stout and strong growth, lots of long lasting flowers with heavy substance, big, colourful, upright, round - genetic and lost of feeding. 
What is lost - as in all flowering plant that have undergone a breeding program like this - is the dainty beauty, the frail peduncules, the nearly transparent appearance of the petals, the 'wild look' of course.


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## PaphMadMan (Dec 12, 2015)

From OrchidWiz I can tell you the completed tree will cover 13 generations, 8 species, and 51 different hybrids involved along the way, going back to Den. Ainsworthii in 1874 as you noted. Den. nobile accounts for a theoretical 45.7% of the ancestry, and I think I'm interpreting this correctly, appearing in the complete family tree 215 times. You've still got some work to do.

The display you show is using a definite row and column grid structure. For me that would suggest using Excel or another spreadsheet program, but my mind tends to go to that because I use it constantly at work. That would allow you copy and paste functionality for repeating branches of the tree, no real limit on rows and columns in the display, and plenty of formatting and drawing tool choices. It might be interesting to color code each species when it appears and see if that highlights any patterns or trends in the breeding.


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## Ozpaph (Dec 16, 2015)

PaphMadMan said:


> It might be interesting to color code each species when it appears and see if that highlights any patterns or trends in the breeding.



That is a VERY good idea - it would make it visual more readable by adding a 'quantitative' element to the tree.


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