# Sangii, what can you tell me about them?



## Bob in Albany N.Y. (Aug 20, 2012)

Hi everyone

I was wondering what the people here on the forum can tell me about sangii. Are the easy to grow, hard, any special requirments? Also I hear that there is a dark form, is that true? If it is true that there is a darker form how much more desirable is it and is it available in the U.S. Is any forms sangii available here and at what cost and from whom? I know Piping rock used to have them but they are no longer listed on the site.


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## Cheyenne (Aug 20, 2012)

Piping Rock does not have them on there site, but when I saw Glen in june he had a few new seedlings. So you may have to ask him. I think they are a cross of the darker form with the lighter form. He had pictures of both parents thats what it looked like but he did not say that was the case. I wish they would be kept separate, thats just me. I have not grown them but would like to.


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## ehanes7612 (Aug 20, 2012)

i had one...it slowly did the death dance for two years before giving up


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## eggshells (Aug 20, 2012)

There is the ayubianum or something forma or variety. It has a nice flower shape compared to its normal form. I still like the normal form though very unique colours. Some people grow it intermediate and some warm. Im leaning towards the latter with high humidity.

Mr. Gruss posted showcasing the difference between the normal and the other form.

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=498

Personally I like them both. 

Orchid Inn are offering some seedlings. Of what form? I am not sure.


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## SlipperFan (Aug 20, 2012)

eggshells said:


> ...
> http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=498
> 
> Personally I like them both.
> ...


Me, too!


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## NYEric (Aug 20, 2012)

Mine is sitting not doing much! Not dying but not multiplying or growing either!  So at least its a survivor species, i.e. not easily killed.


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## Ayreon (Aug 21, 2012)

I have tried mine in some different contitions, but it grows great and flower no matter what conditions I give it. Once I divided it and tried to grow one under much light and the other one under less light, I had read that they didn't want too much light, but the one I gave lots of light grew way better.


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## Cheyenne (Aug 21, 2012)

eggshells said:


> There is the ayubianum or something forma or variety. It has a nice flower shape compared to its normal form. I still like the normal form though very unique colours. Some people grow it intermediate and some warm. Im leaning towards the latter with high humidity.
> 
> Mr. Gruss posted showcasing the difference between the normal and the other form.
> 
> ...



The ayubianum form is different from the regular form in stem length, flower and maybe size. But in the normal form there is two different color forms. They might not be recognized as such, but one is alot lighter and one is alot darker. The flower form is the same. I am not sure how much is considered normal variation, but you can clearly tell there is a difference between the two. Ask Glen to send you pictures.


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## eggshells (Aug 21, 2012)

Cheyenne said:


> The ayubianum form is different from the regular form in stem length, flower and maybe size. But in the normal form there is two different color forms. They might not be recognized as such, but one is alot lighter and one is alot darker. The flower form is the same. I am not sure how much is considered normal variation, but you can clearly tell there is a difference between the two. Ask Glen to send you pictures.



Was it different than what Robert of Orchids Limited posted here?
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15248&highlight=sangii




Drorchid said:


> Two different plants of Paph. sangii are blooming right now. I thought I would post them both, so you can see the differences.
> 
> The first one has a relatively large flower:
> 
> ...


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## atlantis (Aug 21, 2012)

I got mine from a German vendor in Oct-2011.

I try to keep it in the best conditions I can provide:
- Moderate light
- 60-70% Humidity 
- Good air movement
- 15ºC min. in winter and 30ºC max. in summer

I find it a tough species to thrive. Since I bought it I´ve been unable to make him send new roots or new growths, and the new leaves are smaller and smaller. 
I´m using the same mix I usually make for all my Barbata because it has proved to be the best in my growing conditions (60% fir bark, 20% charcoal, 20% sphagnum and perlite), but it isn´t working for this plant.

I don´t think it is an easy species to kill. Mine is struggling and sending new leaves so I don´t give up.


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## Cheyenne (Aug 21, 2012)

eggshells said:


> Was it different than what Robert of Orchids Limited posted here?
> http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15248&highlight=sangii



I am going from memory but the pictures that Robert posted are along the lines of what I was talking about. The plants that Glen showed me had the same shape and form but one was alot darker than the other. Just like Roberts pictures. That darker one is amazing, I think that just made it into my top five most wanted list. The only problem is when they are sold they never say if they are darker or lighter they are just sangii. So when someone finds out who is selling the dark ones please let me know.


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## SlipperKing (Aug 21, 2012)

Impressive difference


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## Cheyenne (Aug 21, 2012)

SlipperKing said:


> Impressive difference



That's what I mean. Its like the difference of adductum and var. anitum. So why can't we get a sangii var. dark as hell, so we know what were buying.


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## eggshells (Aug 21, 2012)

Is it really a variety or just a common differences between clones? I am looking at google images and I can see plants that looks like the colours of both clones and some colours in between. 

i.e. 

Look at this clone named 'claudia'

http://www.aospacificcentral.org/SFJuly2012/paphsangii.html






It got the dark pouch but not the dorsal.

It would be interesting if there is actually a dark variety of sangii.


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## Cheyenne (Aug 21, 2012)

eggshells said:


> Is it really a variety or just a common differences between clones? I am looking at google images and I can see plants that looks like the colours of both clones and some colours in between.
> 
> i.e.
> 
> ...



I don't think there is actually a dark variety described. How much is natural varition is always debatable. But the dark one that Robert posted and others I have seen are certainly to one end of the color variation spectrum. I am sure there are ones inbetween also. I have an adductum that has attributes of reg adductum and anitum and I get different answers from everyone on what one it is. So there is alot of variation but we still have var anitum. So I have think having a dark var of sangii is not crazy.


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## goldenrose (Aug 21, 2012)

NYEric said:


> Mine is sitting not doing much! Not dying but not multiplying or growing either!  So at least its a survivor species, i.e. not easily killed.


I have to agree with Eric, pretty much the same story for me.
I got it in a trade from NYRon, who got it from Glen, as a small seedling, it grew to a point but has been sitting there. Dixler's have one, the plant is big, the flowers are big & it seems at every IOS show (April & Oct) it's in bloom!


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## Rick (Aug 21, 2012)

I'm thinking this is a species that is sensitive to high K and low humidity.

I'm on my second one now. I always maintained >70% humidity knowing this is one of the thin leaved paphs. The first one was most likely a collected plant that arived bare root. It quickly grew into a multi growth plant, but then went into boom and bust cycles of loosing roots, or new growths, or both until it went into a general downhill disappearing act. Tried to bloom once and produced a small crippled flower just before it died. All this during my high K, MSU/RO water days.

This new one was a seedling from Glen Decker I've had for a year now. Potted in a 4 inch wood slat basket w/sphag and large limestone gravel/sand/cichlid sand. Started out about 4- 5" span, and now easily 9-10" span. Roots poking out the sides of the basket. Main difference is K-lite and soft water instead of pure RO, but I think the basket works real good for barbatas in generall too.

Mastersianum is similar in being problematic. I'm handling some seedlings of these the same way. I have 9 seedlings of this species out of flask almost 2 years now. The 4 largest are in 4" wood baskets and the largest is already over 12" leaf span.

Use dilute fertilizer and ensure you always supply more soluble Calcium than potassium.


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## SlipperKing (Aug 22, 2012)

Looking at Vandacee's sangii it appears to be colored somewhere in the middle of these two extremes.
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26725

Rick,
If Robert grew both of his posted plants side by side would the K concentration still hold up?


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## Rick (Aug 22, 2012)

SlipperKing said:


> Rick,
> If Robert grew both of his posted plants side by side would the K concentration still hold up?



Not sure if I'm understanding the question, but I don't think K would have that much to do with the overall size differences of the plant or color, if they were truly different varieties or subspecies. I am seeing about a 20% increase in leaf size (for individual plants) and increased growth rate of leaves and roots. But my henryanums are still way smaller than my supardii.

Now it is certainly possible that variants are only variants due to specific growing conditions. I keep using wild Jack in the pulpits as an example since they are very common in the woods around my house, and I've moved several from the woods into my yard. I noticed in the woods there would be large greenish flowered ones and small dark flowered ones growing within a few feet of each other. About as different as the two sangii in Roberts post. I moved a couple of each variant into the yard, and now all I see are super large plants (even bigger than the biggest ones in the woods) with very dark flowers. I don't fertilize the yard so can't vouch for what environmental change has caused such a change in morphology in the plants.

But my biggest concern I was addressing in this thread was general survival and vigor of the species as a whole (regardless of variant), so I'm pretty confident that reduced K would only help with the culture of this species regardless of the variant.


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## jtrmd (Aug 23, 2012)

Grew the couple 3'' LS seedlings I got got from Glen Decker back in 2008 or 2007.It was a bumpy road until they got used to my conditions,then really they took off.They seemed to prefer brighter light,and a lot of humidity.I was fertilizing every other watering 1/4 strength during spring/summer,and once a month in fall/winter.They were potted in bark mix in plastic pots.I bloomed them out and I didn't like them all that much.They probably ended up in the vegetable garden.I ended u with another one someone gave me as a gift that just sat on the bench forever not doing a thing.That one ended up in the trashcan lol.


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## SlipperFan (Aug 23, 2012)

jtrmd said:


> Grew the couple 3'' LS seedlings I got got from Glen Decker back in 2008 or 2007.It was a bumpy road until they got used to my conditions,then really they took off.They seemed to prefer brighter light,and a lot of humidity.I was fertilizing every other watering 1/4 strength during spring/summer,and once a month in fall/winter.They were potted in bark mix in plastic pots.I bloomed them out and I didn't like them all that much.They probably ended up in the vegetable garden.I ended u with another one someone gave me as a gift that just sat on the bench forever not doing a thing.That one ended up in the trashcan lol.



Why didn't you offer them to someone who would appreciate them?


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## jtrmd (Aug 23, 2012)

SlipperFan said:


> Why didn't you offer them to someone who would appreciate them?





They were pretty damn ugly.I would say Mother Theresa might not even of liked them.LOL!


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## SlipperFan (Aug 23, 2012)

Sangii? Ugly? First bloom??? Pity.


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## jtrmd (Aug 24, 2012)

ugly and deformed.i might have an old photo on one of my external hds.i will look when I get a chance.I was going to put them on eBay,but with the flower photo I had they wouldn't of sold for enough to cover the fees.


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## fibre (Aug 24, 2012)

Someone might love those freaky Paphs, in particular if they are good growers and if one could get them for free ...


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## Cheyenne (Aug 24, 2012)

I live about an hour away from Baltimore. Next time you want to throw away some sangii let me know and I will make the drive so you don't have to take up valuable trash can space with those ugly little things.


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## NYEric (Aug 24, 2012)

Heck, I would have traded something for those instead of letting them go to waste.


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## Rick (Aug 24, 2012)

Dang

Blooming size sangii are worth some bucks! I'd have paid some cash just to see if the second blooming was normal.:wink:


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## jtrmd (Aug 24, 2012)

In hindsight I should of kept it,but I figured I would get another one eventually.I have thrown away a lot of stuff I should of kept over the years.


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## SlipperFan (Aug 24, 2012)

jtrmd said:


> In hindsight I should of kept it,but I figured I would get another one eventually.I have thrown away a lot of stuff I should of kept over the years.


We are supposed to learn from our mistakes. oke:


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## SlipperKing (Aug 24, 2012)

SlipperFan said:


> We are supposed to learn from our mistakes. oke:



LOL!


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