# Phragmipedium besseae 'Peru 1988'



## kentuckiense (Dec 13, 2009)

First, a little backstory on this plant: As I understand it (please correct me, OL guys), Orchids Limited collected this besseae in Peru in 1988, pre-CITES. Obviously, throughout the years, divisions have been made and sold, and this plant is a division gifted to me by forum founder John (PHRAG) about 3.5 years ago. Unlike most besseae, this clone has a non-stolonous growth form.

Unfortunately, I can't seem to flower it without mutated blooms, so this photo will have to do:







This is also my first attempt at a new method of "studio" style orchid photography. Here's the basic setup:

Completely dark room
Black jacket draped over a desk lamp in the background
Plant 1.5 feet in front of jacket
ISO 200 (will try 100 next time)
f22
25 second exposure
White balance set to 'flash'
During the exposure, I use an LED maglight to highlight various areas of the flower

This is, quite literally, my first attempt at this method, so it isn't perfected yet. Due to a drafty window (maybe my breathing and movement, too), the image isn't perfectly sharp. However, I like the preliminary results, and I'm definitely going to keep working on it. I encourage those with the equipment to give it a shot.


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## kentuckiense (Dec 13, 2009)

Just gave it another spin.

This time:
ISO 100
8 seconds

It was a lot easier to get desirable results.


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## Ernie (Dec 13, 2009)

1988 pre-CITES??? What happened to 1975? 

-Ernie


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## kentuckiense (Dec 13, 2009)

Ernie said:


> 1988 pre-CITES??? What happened to 1975?
> 
> -Ernie



I supposed I phrased it poorly. Paphiopedilum and Phragmipedium were added to Appendix I in 1989.


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## gonewild (Dec 13, 2009)

The photography looks good. It is very difficult if not impossible to get close up images perfectly sharp at long exposures. Your second image is much sharper.

The flower looks like it might have a viral problem?


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## SlipperKing (Dec 13, 2009)

Nice Shooting.....why do you think this clone always muts?


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## kentuckiense (Dec 13, 2009)

SlipperKing said:


> Nice Shooting.....why do you think this clone always muts?



I would have to imagine it's because it grows under lights in a corner of my low-humidity apartment.


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## smartie2000 (Dec 13, 2009)

I have a friend that grew a besseae (labelled dalessandroi, IMO it is not) inside and it all he got from his plant was mutant blooms like this, even though it was a multi-growth plant.
But he moved it into his cool solarium (in Feb, so still snowing), and it gave perfectly round blooms. So he thinks that temperature was the issue for his plant. Maybe this is a similar situation? When I saw the plant both types of blooms were there, so it was a recent move.


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## kentuckiense (Dec 13, 2009)

smartie2000 said:


> I have a friend that grew a besseae (labelled dalessandroi, IMO it is not) inside and it all he got from his plant was mutant blooms like this, even though it was a multi-growth plant.
> But he moved it into his cool solarium (in Feb, so still snowing), and it gave perfectly round blooms. So he thinks that temperature was the issue for his plant. Maybe this is a similar situation? When I saw the plant both types of blooms were there, so it was a recent move.



You know, I wouldn't be surprised. My plants are in my bedroom, so I have to walk a sort-of fine line between making my orchids happy and not freezing.


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## kentuckiense (Dec 13, 2009)

I retook the first photo. I wasn't happy with how a few spots got blown out and looked a bit harsh.






I also tried out a bit more macro (1:1) work:






I can tell I'm going to have a lot of fun with this.

(I've got a vietnamense in the blooming pipeline, so hopefully I'll be able to try this out with a non-deformed flower soon.)


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## Yoyo_Jo (Dec 13, 2009)

I'm enjoying the quality of your photos and am also envious of them. I need to learn how to take decent photos.


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## SlipperFan (Dec 13, 2009)

kentuckiense said:


> During the exposure, I use an LED maglight to highlight various areas of the flower



We used to call this "painting with light."


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## NYEric (Dec 13, 2009)

Thanx for explanation of technique, now I have to learn what all those things are!


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## smartie2000 (Dec 13, 2009)

SlipperFan said:


> We used to call this "painting with light."



ah now it makes sense!


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## Kevin (Dec 14, 2009)

kentuckiense said:


> This is also my first attempt at a new method of "studio" style orchid photography. Here's the basic setup:
> 
> Completely dark room
> Black jacket draped over a desk lamp in the background
> ...



Are you saying that the only light is from the flashlight? How does the background not get lit up too, then? 1.5 feet is not a long way.


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## KyushuCalanthe (Dec 14, 2009)

Can't argue with the quality of that macro shot...


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## Clark (Dec 14, 2009)

Great shots!


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## etex (Dec 14, 2009)

Nice photography!! Odd that the blooms always mutate!


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## cnycharles (Dec 14, 2009)

you're color and saturation look alot closer than alot of digital besseae and deep red flowers i've seen, very nice. the last phrag I posted is in a low humidity environment and it also had marks on each pouch so it could be the humidity issue


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## SlipperFan (Dec 14, 2009)

Kevin said:


> Are you saying that the only light is from the flashlight? How does the background not get lit up too, then? 1.5 feet is not a long way.



It's all about how long it take light to record.


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## Roth (Dec 15, 2009)

I have got some besseae 'Peru' plants too, they are extremely distinctive in the way that they do not make stolons like yours. 

A couple of things:
- That's the 'besseae' used by the Eric Young for their magnificent first batch of besseae hybrids. The Ecuador besseae apparently is a much worse breeder.
- It is extremely rare in cultivation. Even the Peruvian - Arias - who tried to recollect that form in the 90's eventually never found it back. They found a colony further north that is similar to the Ecuador type, but never again plants like those ones.
- Indeed I bloomed them many times crippled like yours. Apparently it is related to heat.


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## NYEric (Dec 15, 2009)

Sanderianum said:


> I have got some besseae 'Peru' plants too,
> - Indeed I bloomed them many times crippled like yours. Apparently it is related to heat.



These are in SE Asia?


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## Roth (Dec 15, 2009)

NYEric said:


> These are in SE Asia?



Nowadays :evil: Even the cuthbertsonii and that kind of stuff, decockii, brevicaule, perform well. North Vietnam is not warm, this morning it's only 14C...

Before those besseae were in France, and that was the same problem. Summer, the blooms were crippled completely, winter perfectly fine... Automatic. And the siblings did the same, so it's not virus related. Another observation, the 4n hybrids from the EYOF - the earlier generations, as nothing good went out since Alan Moon left... - made with that peruvian besseae, such as EY, Mem. Dick Clements, etc.. make more teeth on the petal sides during warm weather.


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## gonewild (Dec 15, 2009)

Sanderianum said:


> - It is extremely rare in cultivation. Even the Peruvian - Arias - who tried to recollect that form in the 90's eventually never found it back. They found a colony further north that is similar to the Ecuador type, but never again plants like those ones.



Alfreado Manrique collected bessea from the original population location about 2 years ago. I saw the plants right after they were collected and the plants were clumping type growth and the bloom was very nice.


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## NYEric (Dec 15, 2009)

0 degrees in Chicago tomorrow and 14C is not warm!? I need some more besseae!


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## kentuckiense (Mar 23, 2010)

I'm having way too much fun playing with my new macro flash rig...


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## JeanLux (Mar 23, 2010)

now, this is a sharp flower profile and IMO a very good lighting !!! (I should use my ringflash again, maybe ) Jean


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## kentuckiense (Mar 23, 2010)

It's a tad underexposed. I'll learn eventually!


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## JeanLux (Mar 23, 2010)

that's why you got that interesting view / color of the pouch especially, IMO!!! Jean


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## NYEric (Mar 23, 2010)

Um, photo of front?


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## smartie2000 (Mar 23, 2010)

I prefer under exposed, than over exposed!


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## treefrog (Mar 23, 2010)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Sanderianum
> - It is extremely rare in cultivation. Even the Peruvian - Arias - who tried to recollect that form in the 90's eventually never found it back. They found a colony further north that is similar to the Ecuador type, but never again plants like those ones.
> 
> Alfreado Manrique collected bessea from the original population location about 2 years ago. I saw the plants right after they were collected and the plants were clumping type growth and the bloom was very nice.



These plants are indeed very rare at the type locality. All the plants have been collected for a quick buck by campesinos and populations have never regenareted. I've been working in the mountains of the type locality for the last 4 years and I only found 2 small populations of around 10 plants each which is very disturbing when you hear the stories of the local about the enormous number of plant they collected. With a group of scientist, we are thinking about regenerating the types localities in the next 2-4 years but it will be extremely hard to keep the campesinos from collecting them again....we will see.
I have a Flickr gallery with a few photos of the Peruvian besseae populations for those interested. http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/
st
MAth
All the be


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## NYEric (Mar 23, 2010)

Thanx for sharing treefrog!


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## mccallen (Mar 23, 2010)

treefrog said:


> These plants are indeed very rare at the type locality. All the plants have been collected for a quick buck by campesinos and populations have never regenareted...With a group of scientist, we are thinking about regenerating the types localities in the next 2-4 years but it will be extremely hard to keep the campesinos from collecting them again....we will see.
> I have a Flickr gallery with a few photos of the Peruvian besseae populations for those interested. http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/



Thank you for sharing those photos, it's special to see these plants in their native habitat. 

Is it correct to assume that the photos of the _P. kovachii_ in the "Traffic" album are such plants, "collected for a quick buck"? If so, are these plants mostly sold domestically, or to foreign collectors? Any idea of the number of plants coming out of the countryside on a yearly basis?


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## treefrog (Mar 24, 2010)

> Is it correct to assume that the photos of the P. kovachii in the "Traffic" album are such plants, "collected for a quick buck"? If so, are these plants mostly sold domestically, or to foreign collectors? Any idea of the number of plants coming out of the countryside on a yearly basis?



Yes these plants are collected for a quick buck.
The only known population of Kovachii is from a National Park and yet a few hundreds (4-500) plants are collected each year from there and sold for 10-40 Nuevo Soles. In Peru their is a big domestic orchid traffic and the problem with Kovachii is that it is a very fragile plant (only 10% of what is collected survive). A few years ago, renown orchid nurseries from Peru and Ecuador were collecting the plants in large quantities for the international market. Now the pressure comes mainly from the domestic market. This plant will disapear soon if nothing is done...I might talk more about that situation when I will have a little bit more time.
MAth


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## KyushuCalanthe (Mar 24, 2010)

Thanks for the photos and "on ground" truth Treefrog. Yes, I can imagine what you are saying is the truth. Sadly, even when habitat is saved plants still go extinct. What is to be done? I don't know, but trying to reestablish viable populations is really difficult from what I've seen, particularly if adult plants are used.

Please do tell us more as time and energy permits!


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