# My bog garden progression



## fbrem (Aug 1, 2008)

My bog garden is probably my single best horticultural success to date, check out the progression from moving it to its new sunnier spot last July up 'til now

July '07






May '08





June '08





Aug. '08





Forrest


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## NYEric (Aug 1, 2008)

Aie Caramba!!! If those pitcher plants get bigger they might start swallowing the neighborhood pets!!


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## Heather (Aug 1, 2008)

Wow! that's wonderful!! Rivals ours here at the garden for sure. What all is growing in there (besides the pitchers?)


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## JeanLux (Aug 1, 2008)

congratulations!!!! nice growing with a lot more success than when trying to keep those plants potted!!! Jean


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## fbrem (Aug 1, 2008)

Heather said:


> Wow! that's wonderful!! Rivals ours here at the garden for sure. What all is growing in there (besides the pitchers?)



I know you didn't ask for the pitchers but here's the complete list of everything in there:

-Sarracenia leucophylla (wild type and 'Tarnok')
-S. flava (wild type and 'Coppertop')
-S. purpurea (green, red, and red veined forms)
-S. rubra (at least 3 different varieties)
-S. alata (wild type and red veined form)
-S. x Scarlet Belle
-S. x Catesbeiana
-S. x Wrigleyana
-Dionaea muscipula (green dragon and red dragon)
-Drosera capensis (wild type and alba)
-Drosera spathulata (wild type and Frasier Island forms)
-Drosera dielsiana
-Drosera nitidula x pulchella (pygmy sundew, my favorite of all)
-Drosera binata
-Drosera multifida var. extrema
-Utricularia bisquamata
-Phaius Dan Rosenberg
-Platanthera blephariglottis
-Neobenthamia gracilis
-some kind of boggy fern southern Illinois native
-some king of fiber optic grass I regret introducing, seeds keep popping up everywhere
I think that is about everything except some columbine type thing that either seeded or came in with one of the pitchers. 

all carnivores are hardy in Memphis except Drosera dielsiana (hardy only under leaf litter around pitchers) and Drosera nitidula x pulchella (grown as annuals from gemmae produced in mass in the fall, so easy). Not sure about the Phaius and Neobenthamia. I'm gonna give the Phaius a try this winter but the Neobenthamia will be yanked up and brought indoors. 

Forrest


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## fbrem (Aug 1, 2008)

JeanLux said:


> congratulations!!!! nice growing with a lot more success than when trying to keep those plants potted!!! Jean



Yeah, for sure. started out in pots with deep saucers and they do so much better in the bog, keeps the roots cool and gives a much needed winter dormancy. bogs are the way to go, even worked for em up in southern Illinois. Sarracenia and Dionaea are incredibly hardy. I really want to get some of the North American Drosera but have stopped buying anything cause the pitchers are expanding much faster than expected.

Forrest


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## JeanLux (Aug 1, 2008)

do you expect strong winters in your area, will this be a problem for the plants??? Jean


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## fbrem (Aug 1, 2008)

JeanLux said:


> do you expect strong winters in your area, will this be a problem for the plants??? Jean



It was a concern of mine last year but not really anymore. Last winter was well below normal for our area and everything came back fine, even in front where leaf litter did not build up around the pitchers and the ground was totally bare only a few D. dielsiana and my only D. alicia did die. I think it would take a really freakish winter here to do any damage, especially to the Sarracenia and Dionea. Some of the Drosera died at the crowns dut came up from the roots, but they weren't even well established going into last winter because I planted it in July and we had a sweltering August last year, 15 consecutive days over 105. All I can say is that they are some incredibly hardy plants.

Forrest


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## Kevin (Aug 1, 2008)

Wow! Thanks for the pics! Very well done! How do you protect the bog during winter, or do you at all? What zone are you in (low winter temp)?

What type of water do you use? I wouldn't think you could top it up with water from the hose, right? 

My concern here, would be to prevent making a breeding ground for mosquitoes! Do you keep the water at a certain level, or do you just try and make sure it doesn't dry out too much?

Kevin


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## fbrem (Aug 1, 2008)

Wow! Thanks for the pics! Very well done! 

How do you protect the bog during winter, or do you at all? 
- Not at all, I tried putting leaf litter over it and it blew away in the front and stayed nicely around the dormant pitchers.

What zone are you in (low winter temp)? 
-We are in 7a I believe, the warmer of the 7's, winter low usually about 15F. Got down to like 10-12F a few days this winter.

What type of water do you use? I wouldn't think you could top it up with water from the hose, right? 
-Mostly RO and carbonfiltered, about 7-10 gal/day average. When I'm desperate 'cause it's in the 100's I'll spray it with the hose to try to keep a crust from forming but they root really deep so a intermittently dry top crust has never seemed to bother them. 

My concern here, would be to prevent making a breeding ground for mosquitoes! Do you keep the water at a certain level, or do you just try and make sure it doesn't dry out too much?
-Just try and make sure it doesn't dry out too much. Never standing water, unless the spring rains make it flood. I poked a few dozen tiny holes in the 6mil plastic liner for slow drainage and to retard stagnant conditions at the roots.

In all it is my easiest horticultural endeavor to date, everyone should have one. I planted my neighbor a container bog and she used straight tap with no problems but I'm really invested in them so I don't take too many chances.


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## paphioboy (Aug 1, 2008)

DROOL-icious sarracenias.... :drool::drool::drool: Great growing, Forrest..! :clap::clap: Wish I could I have a bog like that..


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## fundulopanchax (Aug 1, 2008)

That is some progression! 

Congratulations!

Ron


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## Corbin (Aug 2, 2008)

Nice Growing:clap::clap:


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## Yoyo_Jo (Aug 2, 2008)

That's wonderful Forrest! :clap: 
Any chance of some close-ups of the plants? 

Joanne


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## KyushuCalanthe (Aug 2, 2008)

Very nice growth on your garden! Sarracenia are much more cold resistant than most folks think - with a good layer of winter mulch you can easily grow them in zone 6 and even the 5b. The key is sun, sun, sun!


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## Kevin (Aug 2, 2008)

KyushuCalanthe said:


> Very nice growth on your garden! Sarracenia are much more cold resistant than most folks think - with a good layer of winter mulch you can easily grow them in zone 6 and even the 5b. The key is sun, sun, sun!



Yeah, I just wish that the real cold-hardiness from S. purpurea would transfer to it's hybrids. I haven't heard reports of success with anything other than purpurea in zone 2.


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## goldenrose (Aug 3, 2008)

:clap::clap: AWESOME!!! :clap::clap:


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## fbrem (Aug 3, 2008)

KyushuCalanthe said:


> Very nice growth on your garden! Sarracenia are much more cold resistant than most folks think - with a good layer of winter mulch you can easily grow them in zone 6 and even the 5b. The key is sun, sun, sun!



Absolutely, not enough sun that was reason I had to relocate my bog last year. The spot was great in the spring, until the sun went to it's high summer position in the sky and got shaded by the house most of the day. If you don't give them at least 6-8 hours direct sun they just grow tall and flop over.

Forrest


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## fbrem (Aug 3, 2008)

*you've unleashed the beast with that request*

Joanne, As for you're earlier request of some close ups, absolutely, with pleasure, the only thing funner than watching them grow is showing them off. This may be the longest pictyre posting in Slippertalk history so I hope it's legal, and it's not even orchids.

S. alata





S. alata flowers





S. alata flower underside





S. purpurea (red form and red-veined form)













S. purpurea buds and opening flower





Sarracenia flowers





S. leucophylla





S. leocophylla flowers









S. leucophylla 'Tarnok'





more images to come in mere moments...


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## fbrem (Aug 3, 2008)

S. flava









S. flava 'Coppertop'









S. rubra









S. 'Scarlet Belle'





S. 'Catesbeiana'





S. 'Wrigleyana'





S. 'Judith Hindle'


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## fbrem (Aug 3, 2008)

and the last of them...

Dionaea muscipula














Drosera multifida var. extrema





D. capensis alba









D. nitidula x pulchella (natural hybrid)













D. dielsiana





and that's about it, wow that posting made me weary, time for a beer then a nap. Enjoy

Forrest.


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## Rick (Aug 3, 2008)

Your bog has done excellently:clap::clap:

I would have worried about too much heat rather than our winter cold, but they all look great.

West TN has much softer water than middle and east TN. West TN either is on Mississippi RW or sandstone based artesian wells. Middle and east TN are on limestone based waters and tend to be higher in hardness and salts in general.


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## likespaphs (Aug 3, 2008)

really great photos!
thanks so much


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## fbrem (Aug 3, 2008)

Rick said:


> Your bog has done excellently:clap::clap:
> 
> I would have worried about too much heat rather than our winter cold, but they all look great.
> 
> West TN has much softer water than middle and east TN. West TN either is on Mississippi RW or sandstone based artesian wells. Middle and east TN are on limestone based waters and tend to be higher in hardness and salts in general.



Yeah, I agree, the heat is a real killer, only the S. rubras and alata, Drosera multifida and the pygmy sundews seem to grow well in July and August, everything else slows down dramatically, and yes the water here is really soft, but it smells like a swimming pool, although a little aging or carbon filtration easily takes care of that.


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## Rick (Aug 3, 2008)

fbrem said:


> Yeah, I agree, the heat is a real killer, only the S. rubras and alata, Drosera multifida and the pygmy sundews seem to grow well in July and August, everything else slows down dramatically, and yes the water here is really soft, but it smells like a swimming pool, although a little aging or carbon filtration easily takes care of that.



Yup... Get the chlorine out.

How deep is the bog, and what kind of material did you use to fill it with?

Did you already detail the construction in another thread?


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## paphioboy (Aug 3, 2008)

Wonderful CPs...!! :clap::clap::clap: Nice to see the VFTs producing 'summer leaves' now...


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## Yoyo_Jo (Aug 3, 2008)

OMG!!! Those are wonderful photos! Thanks so much for posting the close ups. I have never seen an actual pitcher plant - I had no idea there was so much variety and beauty! Very cool! I particularly like Scarlet Belle. :clap::clap::clap:

Joanne


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## fbrem (Aug 3, 2008)

*It's so easy*



Rick said:


> Yup... Get the chlorine out.
> 
> How deep is the bog, and what kind of material did you use to fill it with?
> 
> Did you already detail the construction in another thread?



Nope this is the first thread about it, pretty new here. Construction was easy once the pit was carved out of the caly that is my front yard. It was as easy as digging an 18 inch deep kidney shaped pit, lining it with one sheet of 6mil plastic, filling it with 1/2 peat and 1/2 sand both from a landscaping store (about 1/2 cubic yard of each, I also added a few bags of perlite but wish I didn't 'cause it just floated to the top during the spring rains and made a mess of my rosetted and pygmy Drosera), then running my RO filter nonstop for a few days to wet it all down. After it was all boggy, I poked about 2 dozen tiny holes through the liner to let it slowly drain to avoid stagnant conditions at the roots as I found out my smaller older bog had developed a slightly foul smell after only a year, this one is still fresh smeling all the way down due to the increase water and air exchange. If I were to do it over again the only thing I would do differently would be to use multiple layers of plastic or a high quality rubber liner, but I'm not too worried 'cause I'll probably be moving in about 3-4 years from now, and not have put in the perlite. It was nerve racking overwintering them outside the first year in Illinois but I really from that how hardy some are, tough plants they are if they stay wet (a little drier in winter).

I got all the ideas for the bog and knowledge of growing carnivores from "The Savage Garden" by Peter D'Amato, the owner of California Carnivores. He sells some of the best plants money can buy, although there are other less expensive route to acquire CPs. One thing is that California Carnivores has a yearly clearance of Sarracenia every spring, large mature rhizomes for $8 each, the downside is that you have no choice, they just send you a mix of species and hybrids that they have to clear out to make room for new hybrids in their nursury. Thanks for the interest, although I;m far from an expert, I've only maintained a bog garden for about 3 years now I'd be happy to share anything I've learned if anyone is interested. CP's are great and most are fairly easy plant s to grow. 

Forrest


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## fbrem (Aug 3, 2008)

paphioboy said:


> Wonderful CPs...!! :clap::clap::clap: Nice to see the VFTs producing 'summer leaves' now...



Yeah, the summer leaves are awesome and they are gluttons, but nothing compared to the 10's of thousands of insects one large Sarracenia can devour, I was amazed when I removed a leaf and split it open, literally 1000's of insects mostly flies but lots of roaches and a few beetles too, They are so awesome.

Forrest


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## fbrem (Aug 3, 2008)

*Thanks*



Yoyo_Jo said:


> OMG!!! Those are wonderful photos! Thanks so much for posting the close ups. I have never seen an actual pitcher plant - I had no idea there was so much variety and beauty! Very cool! I particularly like Scarlet Belle. :clap::clap::clap:
> 
> Joanne



Thanks so much, they have really gone beyong my expectations and blown me away this year. The leucophyllas are not too happy with the current high temps here in Memphis though, we're looking at at least three more days above 100F.


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## Kevin (Aug 4, 2008)

fbrem said:


> The leucophyllas are not too happy with the current high temps here in Memphis though, we're looking at at least three more days above 100F.



Just curious why some of your plants are suffering from the heat. Most Sarracenia species are native from the Gulf States, through northern Florida, and north up the east coast. Doesn't it get hot there in the Summer? I would think it would be hotter than Memphis.


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## JeanLux (Aug 4, 2008)

another nice job done Forrest :clap::clap:: posting all of those pretty pict.!!! Did you have to shoot them for this posting or do you have sort of pictures file of your plants?? Jean


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## fbrem (Aug 4, 2008)

Kevin said:


> Just curious why some of your plants are suffering from the heat. Most Sarracenia species are native from the Gulf States, through northern Florida, and north up the east coast. Doesn't it get hot there in the Summer? I would think it would be hotter than Memphis.



I've thought that myself but every time I check temps we're consistently about 5F hotter here further inland. I'll be honest, this is the hottest place I've ever been, it can be quite miserable. It's most likely because my bog is only 18" deep so the plants can't root far enough down to tap into cooler ground water to bring up to the plant to keep it cool. Same thing happened last Aug. when temps get around 100F, only the ends of the new leaves on the leucophyllas, probably to tough to get cool water three feet above the ground to keep those developing leaves cool enough to avoid flopping over. If I give them an overhead watering with the hose it alleviates the condition for a few hours/minutes.

Forrest

Forrest


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## fbrem (Aug 4, 2008)

JeanLux said:


> another nice job done Forrest :clap::clap:: posting all of those pretty pict.!!! Did you have to shoot them for this posting or do you have sort of pictures file of your plants?? Jean



I take photos all the time and slap them in my plants folder in my external hard drive, all I had to do was upload them to Photobucket. Need to clean up the hard drive though, nothing is in order there and it has become like fishing for images.

Forrest


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## NYEric (Aug 4, 2008)

Awesome job! Thanx for posting.


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## TADD (Aug 4, 2008)

Just keep 'em wet, you can't overwater pitchers, vft, etc... Well grown garden I might add. I have a quite small collection compared to yours, but it is not a permanent set-up yet so Leuco's are my favs ( look a bit like fairrieanum) and Judith Hindle is a great hybrid. 

Well done! You should get drosera intermedia it is a virtual weed here in Charlotte.


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## Rick (Aug 4, 2008)

fbrem said:


> I've thought that myself but every time I check temps we're consistently about 5F hotter here further inland. I'll be honest, this is the hottest place I've ever been, it can be quite miserable. It's most likely because my bog is only 18" deep so the plants can't root far enough down to tap into cooler ground water to bring up to the plant to keep it cool. Same thing happened last Aug. when temps get around 100F, only the ends of the new leaves on the leucophyllas, probably to tough to get cool water three feet above the ground to keep those developing leaves cool enough to avoid flopping over. If I give them an overhead watering with the hose it alleviates the condition for a few hours/minutes.
> 
> Forrest
> 
> Forrest



I think so too about the heat. Going west towards Ark, TX, and OK can get even hotter at roughly the same lattitude (no cool breezes of the coast??). But just moving east to Nashville, you can drop 5 or so degrees.


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## fbrem (Aug 4, 2008)

Rick said:


> I think so too about the heat. Going west towards Ark, TX, and OK can get even hotter at roughly the same lattitude (no cool breezes of the coast??). But just moving east to Nashville, you can drop 5 or so degrees.



Don't tempt me. I need to finish grad school before I can think about moving where the climate suites my clothes.

Forrest


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## swamprad (Aug 4, 2008)

Outstanding photos, Forrest.


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## NYEric (Aug 5, 2008)

TADD said:


> Just keep 'em wet, you can't overwater pitchers, vft, etc...



R U sure!?!?


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## fbrem (Aug 5, 2008)

*He's pretty much right*



NYEric said:


> R U sure!?!?



I've read some of your posts and seems like you a good candidate for my new club, overwaters anonymous. oke: Welcome to the club, I'm running for president, but I'm doing much better this year, only drowned a few Catts, a Peristeria, and a few Catasetums, no CPs though. I'm pretty sure it would take a concentrated effort consisting of total, long term submersion to overwater most CPs. Like the biblical floods in the time of Noah. The only way to kill them with water is to give them bad water, which is really any water with high pH or lots of nutrients, like the errant fert. spray for my orchids that fried a few of my Pings and Utrics.

Forrest


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## NYEric (Aug 5, 2008)

Maybe that was the problem but there are some ghosts of VFT's that disagreed w/ that statement! Maybe you saw the tombstones I posted before but my overwatering has done its' share of damage to the environment.


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## fbrem (Aug 5, 2008)

I can't believe it was over watering that killed the flytrap, either something in it or no dormancy, they die after the first winter if not let to go dormant. I get a kick out of the directions they give you with those VFTs from most nursery's of garden stores, you know the ones in the little plastic boxes/domes. When followed to the T the VFTs will inevitably and invariably die. Capitalist bastards want us to kill them and buy more, again and again.


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## philoserenus (Aug 9, 2008)

im pretty sure that ur neighbourhood are quite free of insects, haha!! since they all got gobbled up ^^


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## Gilda (Aug 9, 2008)

:drool: We have a few around our fish pond but your bog garden is wonderful !!! The red blooms are sooo beautiful ! Gives me ideas...more work for hubby:evil:


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## likespaphs (Aug 10, 2008)

fbrem said:


> I can't believe it was over watering that killed the flytrap, either something in it or no dormancy, they die after the first winter if not let to go dormant. I get a kick out of the directions they give you with those VFTs from most nursery's of garden stores, you know the ones in the little plastic boxes/domes. When followed to the T the VFTs will inevitably and invariably die. Capitalist bastards want us to kill them and buy more, again and again.




yeh, people don't realize the dormancy issue... 
i give tours around the conservatory where i work and when i get to the vft i ask people if they know where they're native and i get all sorts of crazy answers....


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## Heather (Aug 10, 2008)

What are the dormancy requirements with regards to pinguliculas? Since I've lost my sundews....it's all I've got now.


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## Kevin (Aug 10, 2008)

It depends on which Pings you have - tropical or temperate. I have P. moranensis, which is Mexican, and doesn't seem to require any dormancy. There are also some species native to North America, so it depends on what you have. Do you know which ones you have?


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