# Paphiopedilum javanicum var floresianum



## DrLeslieEe (Dec 22, 2020)

Finally, my first javanicum to bloom (of ten, seven of which are half albino selfings). This is the floresianum variety, with more reddish tones (not really present in this one) than the normal type. 

A very waxy olive brown-green with magenta borders around the dorsal sepal and petals. 

Color appears dull, typical of species. Reminds of the nephrite jade from BC and NZ. 

The shape I really like with the erect spade shaped dorsal and outspread petals. 

NS about 10 cm. 

Culture: bark mix, warm, low light, moist all year







Can’t wait for my half albino selfings to bloom as there is a 25% chance of an albino appearing!


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## monocotman (Dec 22, 2020)

Interesting. I like it.
David


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## GuRu (Dec 22, 2020)

That's a lovely P. javanicum. I like this elegant greenish flower with its upright dorsal and the soooooo long flower stem. 
Leslie, did you choose a background of the photo that fits to spots on the petals? Lol


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 22, 2020)

GuRu said:


> That's a lovely P. javanicum. I like this elegant greenish flower with its upright dorsal the soooooo long flower stem.
> Leslie, did you choose a background of the photo that fits to spots on the petals? Lol


Haha yes the flower is camouflaging against the background!

Thanks to both 'likes' to boost the flower's confidence!


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## Ozpaph (Dec 22, 2020)

very nice. Sam's breeding?


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## Linus_Cello (Dec 22, 2020)

What light do you use for the wine refrigerator?


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 22, 2020)

Ozpaph said:


> very nice. Sam's breeding?


Yes it’s from Sam. He thinks it’s a good one too.


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 22, 2020)

Linus_Cello said:


> What light do you use for the wine refrigerator?


I use 8 rows on LEDs (12 bulbs across each row). Six middle rows are white bulbs, one end is blue, other end is red. Plants are staggered along sides till bottom (at 1.5 feet to cuths).


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## Linus_Cello (Dec 22, 2020)

Lights are in or outside of wine refrigerator?


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 22, 2020)

Linus_Cello said:


> Lights are in or outside of wine refrigerator?


Inside lol...


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## Duck Slipper (Dec 22, 2020)

Very nice...javanicum and your wine fridge.


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## Paphluvr (Dec 22, 2020)

Not sure of which I like best, the flower or the foliage.


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## richgarrison (Dec 23, 2020)

Definitely like that one..... which parents from sam?


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## emydura (Dec 23, 2020)

I have always liked this species. Yours is an especially nice one.


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## NYEric (Dec 23, 2020)

Thanks for sharing. Looks like its tying to use camouflage to hide with the fridge!


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 23, 2020)

richgarrison said:


> Definitely like that one..... which parents from sam?


Here’s the tag with code and parentage:


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## Guldal (Dec 23, 2020)

Very, very good and beautifull flower and plant, Leslie! Nothing I don't like about it...and those broad petals, ah!

One thing, though, that intrigues me is, how your flower differs from var. virens?!


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 23, 2020)

NYEric said:


> Thanks for sharing. Looks like its tying to use camouflage to hide with the fridge!


Hehe right?

Today he’s hiding on the side of the Winerium:


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 23, 2020)

Guldal said:


> Very, very good and beautifull flower and plant, Leslie! Nothing I don't like about it...and those broad petals, ah!
> 
> One thing, though, that intrigues me is, how your flower differs from var. virens?!


Thanks Jens. I’m really happy with this first ever species bloom for me. I have always adored the shape of the good javanicums. And this one fits the bill for me. 

In terms of the difference with virens, there are key objective differences (enough for me to say they are different species!):

1. Petals of virens are more horizontal whereas javanicums are usually angled down by 45 degrees.

2. The tips of the viren petals are also tipped bright pink on distal 1/4 to 1/3. 

3. The green of the virens flower is usually brighter green (lime green) and not dull green like javanicum. This makes the virens flower brighter green with pink petal tips. 

4. The staminode of the virens sometimes have a brighter green tip on the lower edge. The virens staminode sometimes have pink blush too. 

5. The inner rim of the virens pouch sometimes are flushed pink too. 

Also the plants are different vegetatively. Virens leaves tend to be more compact and stiff, angled up (though not all, which I think are intermediary hybrid swarms of the two crossed together). 

The holotype plant description of the javanicum from the Kew herbarium sample fits my flower to the tea. That was from 1888 I think!


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## dodidoki (Dec 23, 2020)

Very nice pale form of this very rare species.Growing from seedling is a huge deal!


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 23, 2020)

dodidoki said:


> Very nice pale form of this very rare species.Growing from seedling is a huge deal!


Thanks Istvan, but I grew them from NBS stage .


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## Guldal (Dec 24, 2020)

DrLeslieEe said:


> Thanks Jens. I’m really happy with this first ever species bloom for me. I have always adored the shape of the good javanicums. And this one fits the bill for me.
> 
> In terms of the difference with virens, there are key objective differences (enough for me to say they are different species!):
> 
> ...


Thank you for the explanation, Leslie. The colour difference, by the way, was much more clearly to see in your second batch of photos (with the side of your winery as background) - with the black in the back the dullness of the green comes so much more to the fore!

Seriousness aside, next follows a little cheeky one: if your plant to a 't' fits the description of the holotype of javanicum (var. javanicum), what then sets var. floresianum apart from the typical variety? 

Ps. The position, the angle of the lip, by the way, judging from the photos, seems to bear some resemblance to volonteanum? Might we have a shoot from the side to judge this closer?


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 24, 2020)

Guldal said:


> Thank you for the explanation, Leslie. The colour difference, by the way, was much more clearly to see in your second batch of photos (with the side of your winery as background) - with the black in the back the dullness of the green comes so much more to the fore!
> 
> Seriousness aside, next follows a little cheeky one: if your plant to a 't' fits the description of the holotype of javanicum (var. javanicum), what then sets var. floresianum apart from the typical variety?
> 
> Ps. The position, the angle of the lip, by the way, judging from the photos, seems to bear some resemblance to volonteanum? Might we have a shoot from the side to judge this closer?


Variety floresianum is a horticultural term given to plants that have 'more' color than the type variety. As seen in this offspring, this color is not stable or easily inherited. That's why color forms are not given forma status. As a result the colorful flowers of the javanicums will resort back to the type coloration most of the time. This does not happen with the virens type, thus my view that it is a different species all together.

Yes more pics? My pleasure ... I will take more tomorrow. 

But the javanicum pouch is not like the volonteanum pouch as the latter has a engorgement in the lower half and pinched at the upper rim (like a gourd). The javanicum pouch on the other hand is more like flute glass, narrow at bottom and flared opened at the top.


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## Guldal (Dec 24, 2020)

DrLeslieEe said:


> Variety floresianum is a horticultural term given to plants that have 'more' color than the type variety. As seen in this offspring, this color is not stable or easily inherited.


The first part of your answer would suggest: P. javanicum fma. floresianum (Hort.); the last sentence seems, albeit, to make it pure and simple: P. javanicum var. javanicum. But, indeed, a gorgeous exemplar! 


DrLeslieEe said:


> But the javanicum pouch is not like the volonteanum pouch as the latter has a engorgement in the lower half and pinched at the upper rim (like a gourd). The javanicum pouch on the other hand is more like flute glass, narrow at bottom and flared opened at the top.


I didn't intend to say, that the pouch, per se, looks like volonteanum - I meant, that I sensed some similarity in respect to its seemingly slightly protruding position, the slightly more acute angle in the placement of the pouch. It's difficult, though, from the present pictures to judge, whether this is just a figment of my immagination, or really there, so looking foreward to the next batch of pictures!


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## P.K.Hansen (Dec 24, 2020)

beautiful flower.


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 24, 2020)

Many paphs pouch jut out indeed. Here are some pouch pics: 









What say you Jens?


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## Guldal (Dec 24, 2020)

DrLeslieEe said:


> What say you Jens?


*Slurp, slurp, slurp* 

Merry Christmas and A Happy New Year" Ho, ho, ho!


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 24, 2020)

Guldal said:


> *Slurp, slurp, slurp*
> 
> Merry Christmas and A Happy New Year" Ho, ho, ho!


Hehe I love a psychologist humor!!


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 24, 2020)

Hope this link from Kew works. It’s the holotype javanicum description. You will see how this plant and flower matches perfectly with the 1888 description! 





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Paphiopedilum javanicum (Reinw. ex Lindl.) Pfitzer | Plants of the World Online | Kew Science


The native range of this species is W. Malesia to Lesser Sunda Islands. It is a perennial and grows primarily in the wet tropical biome.




powo.science.kew.org


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 26, 2020)

The flower is finally fully expanded. 

Luckily the dorsal has maintained the flatness without the typical reflex curl at the base. Such a regal flower shape due to the large dorsal size and stance. 

Not bad for a first ever javanicum for me. One down, nine to go!


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## GuRu (Dec 27, 2020)

DrLeslieEe said:


> ......Not bad for a first ever javanicum for me.



Indeed! 



DrLeslieEe said:


> ................One down, nine to go!



Holy cow, I would be lucky if I had one of your quality.


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 27, 2020)

It seems many feedback from several paph connoisseurs and experts from here and worldwide alike that this is indeed a very special one. It just makes me stoked to be lucky enough to secure several of them from Orchid Inn (thanks Sam!). 

And to have this first bloom of a javanicum so beautiful not just to my eyes (as a parent would love his child unconditionally) but to those who have grown these for decades. I'm glad we have a forum like ST to share our joy with the world!


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## richard.feldman48 (Dec 27, 2020)

DrLeslieEe said:


> The flower is finally fully expanded.
> 
> Luckily the dorsal has maintained the flatness without *the typical reflex curl at the base*. Such a regal flower shape due to the large dorsal size and stance.
> 
> Not bad for a first ever javanicum for me. One down, nine to go!



I'm hoping to learn what determines the curl in the dorsal. I have Paph. Graetrixianum that's quite pretty, but the dorsal is curled all the way back so that it touches in the back. It was pretty flat at first - I posted a photo on 12/8 - but has curled over the past couple of weeks. Does anything about the growing conditions affect that? Or is it just the nature of the plant?

Rich


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 27, 2020)

Some species flowers naturally recurve at the lower half of the dorsal sepal, especially the insigne and villosum alliance. That's why the flat charlesworthii dorsal were used to breed onto bulldog paphs to flatten them.


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 28, 2020)

Color corrected pic (minus the LED's blue glow):


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## Guldal (Dec 29, 2020)

Clonal name: Green Apple, Green Delicious, Green Elf, or maybe Wood Nymph?


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 29, 2020)

Guldal said:


> Clonal name: Green Apple, Green Delicious, Green Elf, or maybe Wood Nymph?


'Delicious Apple Green Elf' aka DAGE!


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## mSummers (Jan 9, 2021)

Beautiful!


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## Justin (Jan 10, 2021)

Wow awesome bloom.


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## DrLeslieEe (Jan 23, 2021)

So its about one month from opening. Still as fresh as day 1. I'm interested to see how long the bloom lasts in this species as there are no records of this aspect. Also dorsal has remained in same plane with no reflexing at base as with most ones I've seen in awards and publications.


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