# Paph. Lady Isabel x wilheminiae



## mrhappyrotter (Jan 16, 2013)

I recently acquired one of these guys. I was curious what the hybrid name would be. I couldn't find it on the RHS registar, using wilhelminiae.

Is wilhelminiea considered to be a variety of glanduliferum, thus making it Paph. Praying Isabel? Is there another hybrid name or is this simply an unregistered hybrid?

Thanks in advance for your help.


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## SlipperKing (Jan 16, 2013)

Paph. Praying Isabel is the name of your plant


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## SlipperFan (Jan 16, 2013)

SlipperKing said:


> Paph. Praying Isabel is the name of your plant



And it should be a beauty:
http://www.aospacificcentral.org/SFJuly 2003/paph.html


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## mrhappyrotter (Jan 16, 2013)

Thanks guys. I was under the impression that wilhelminiae was considered a species and not a variety of gland.

Either way, the plant and flower are beautiful. Definitely not as nice as the awarded clone you posted Dot, but charming in it's own way. Unfortunately, it's only got one flower on the current spike, but perhaps if I can improve the conditions it's growing in, I'll get 2 -3 flowers next time.


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## Dido (Jan 17, 2013)

pics please


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## Drorchid (Jan 18, 2013)

SlipperKing said:


> Paph. Praying Isabel is the name of your plant



I would disagree. Paph Praying Isabel (according to the RHS) is Paph. glanduliferum x Paph. Lady Isabel. RHS does consider Paph. glanduliferum and Paph. wilhelminiae to be separate species. They do however consider glanduliferum to be synonymous with Paph. praestans.

So to answer the question, Paph. Lady Isabel x wilhelminiae has not yet been registered..

Robert


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## SlipperFan (Jan 18, 2013)

Oh Oh!


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## SlipperKing (Jan 18, 2013)

Drorchid said:


> I would disagree. Paph Praying Isabel (according to the RHS) is Paph. glanduliferum x Paph. Lady Isabel. RHS does consider Paph. glanduliferum and Paph. wilhelminiae to be separate species. They do however consider glanduliferum to be synonymous with Paph. praestans.
> 
> So to answer the question, Paph. Lady Isabel x wilhelminiae has not yet been registered..
> 
> Robert



Well when I got this plant from Orchid Zone so many years ago that's what Terry was calling it, so you better correct him too while you're at it. 
Also, back then...RHS was calling all the glanduliferum complex the same damn thing. So until further offical notice, it's Praying Isabel for me.
If you do a google search you find Praying Isabel made with both types, wilhelminiae and praestans and awards given as such. AND nobody alive has seen a "glanduliferum". So why both using this name at all?


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## emydura (Jan 18, 2013)

This does get a bit confusing. Is Lady Isabel x praestans also Praying Isabel? If so, your one needs a new name assuming the wilhelminiae cross was not named first.


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## mrhappyrotter (Jan 18, 2013)

Interesting. I figured there would be a variety of opinions and responses on this. Thanks to all who've weighed in with their view points.

Obviously I'm not a taxonomist, but to me the answer comes down entirely to whether or not wilhelminiae is in and of itself a separate taxa or simply a variety of an existing species. The resolution on that is well outside of my qualification.


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## emydura (Jan 18, 2013)

mrhappyrotter said:


> Interesting. I figured there would be a variety of opinions and responses on this. Thanks to all who've weighed in with their view points.
> 
> Obviously I'm not a taxonomist, but to me the answer comes down entirely to whether or not wilhelminiae is in and of itself a separate taxa or simply a variety of an existing species. The resolution on that is well outside of my qualification.



I don't think there is much doubt wilhelminiae is considered a species in its own right. Not by most people. I think this is much the same debate as is with the roth cross - Paph Susan Booth (rothschildianum x praestans). Before wilhelminiae was separated, the cross with rothschildianum was also called Susan Booth. Once wilhelminaie was recognised as a species in its own right this cross was changed to William Ambler. So I think one of these crosses has to be renamed. Whichever was the one used in the registration of the cross gets to keep it.

Same thing with the stonei crosses with these two species. I think wilhelminiae x stonei was registered first so that gets to keep the name Yellow Tiger. I haven't a clue what the name is for the praestans x stonei. I don't think anyone has renamed it.


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## mrhappyrotter (Jan 18, 2013)

Again, I have a crappy camera. This is the best photo I could get.

I like the color, but it definitely doesn't compare to the awarded clone linked earlier in this thread. Still, I like it, and I hope the next time it blooms, it'll live up to its full potential (more than 1 flower).

The flower is good sized. Tip to tip, the petals span 8 inches (20+cm). The lip is nice and dark red. I wish the stripes on the hood were a bit more "clean" like stonei, and that there were a little more yellow in the coloration. The angle makes the flower look a bit distorted, but the shape and alignment are actually quite nice.


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## Ozpaph (Jan 21, 2013)

nice solid pouch colour.


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## Drorchid (Jan 21, 2013)

SlipperKing said:


> Well when I got this plant from Orchid Zone so many years ago that's what Terry was calling it, so you better correct him too while you're at it.
> Also, back then...RHS was calling all the glanduliferum complex the same damn thing. So until further offical notice, it's Praying Isabel for me.
> If you do a google search you find Praying Isabel made with both types, wilhelminiae and praestans and awards given as such. AND nobody alive has seen a "glanduliferum". So why both using this name at all?



I agree, I think that is what started the confusion. Paph. Praying Isabel was registerd by Booth back in 1994. Back then the whole "glanduliferum" complex was considered to be one species. Now, according to Braem, there are actually 3 separate species. The darker form (native to the main land of New Guinea) is known as Paph. wilhelminiae. The lighter colored (and more yellow in color) is known as Paph. praestans. Paph. praestans also tends to get larger flowers on larger plants. According to Braem there is a different and distinct species called Paph. glanduliferum, but it has been lost in cultivation for over 100 years (and who knows it may be extinct, if it really existed). Besides the original description, there is only one "Type" herbarium specimen known of this species. Based on this herbarium specimen and the original description, the main distinction between glanduliferum and praestans is the shape of the staminodal shield. The RHS considers both species to be the same (and they probably are correct, as in my opinion you can't base a whole "species concept" on just one herbarium specimen, and on just one characteristic that is probably variable within the species), and also, like you said as Paph. glanduliferum has not been seen for over 100 years, I would just leave out "Paph. glanduliferum" and call it Paph. praestans for registration purposses.

Now as Paph. Praying Isabel was registered back when there was only one species accepted for registration (Paph. glanduliferum), when Booth registered the cross the parent name became Paph. glanduliferum (which is now considered by the RHS the same as praestans). Now if Booth did make it with Paph. wilhelminiae, and can prove that he did, he can let the registrar change the parents of Paph. Praying Isabel to wilhelminiae and Lady Isabel. Until then the accepted parent names will stay as praestans and Lady Isabel. If you have a cross of wilhelminiae x Lady Isabel, it is thus considered unregistered at this moment. 

When Terry had (what he called) Paph. Praying Isabel, he may have remade the cross using wilhelminiae, but as back then it was considered the same as glanduliferum (aka praestans) he just called the hybrids Paph. Praying Isabel (which back in the 70's and 80's was still correct, but not any more).

Robert


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## Drorchid (Jan 21, 2013)

This btw is a "True" Paph. Praying Isabel (made with "praestans"):
http://www.slipperorchid.org/gallery.display.photo.asp?image_id=176&lib_id=8

Compare it to a Paph. (wilhelminiae x Lady Isabel), even though it was labeled incorrectly as a Paph. Praying Isabel:
http://www.honoluluorchidsociety.or...-20120504-Paph-Praying-Isabel-CR-HOS-Edit.jpg

Both hybrids are very distinct, and I think it would be wrong to call them both the same (Praying Isabel).

Robert


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## Ozpaph (Jan 25, 2013)

Robert, thank-you for the insights, Very interesting.

If the main difference between the 'species' is colour and plant size, the form of their respective hybrids should look similar(?). The 2 examples you post links to look very different in form as well as colour. Could that be just due to the variable influence of the Lady isabel and not the prae/wilh?


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## SlipperKing (Jan 25, 2013)

So Robert in the same link there is this.
http://www.slipperorchid.org/gallery.display.photo.asp?image_id=182&lib_id=8
Do you think this is a true Susan Booth? I don't. To me this is William Ambler


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## Drorchid (Jan 26, 2013)

Yes, it does look like it was made with a wilhelminiae, which means it is a William Ambler.


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