# SucraShield Spider mites



## quietaustralian (Apr 13, 2012)

I have read threads were SucraShield has been suggested to control spider mites and I'm keen to know more about it. I have Googled SucraShield but I'm not clear on whether this product is an organic product derived from tobacco or a synthetic chemical. Anyone know?

Mick


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## goldenrose (Apr 13, 2012)

I believe Ray sells it, I'm sure he'll chime in.


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## keithrs (Apr 13, 2012)

Organic


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## quietaustralian (Apr 13, 2012)

keithrs said:


> Organic



Thanks.

As tobacco is so cheap in Vietnam, I considered making a nicotine pesticide but was worried about tobacco mosaic virus. It seems that TMV is common in tobacco crops worldwide. I wonder how the makers of SucraShield get around this problem?


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## Ray (Apr 13, 2012)

The active ingredient is sucrose octanoate ester, an OMRI-listed product derived from sugars chemically extracted from the leaf hairs of a wild tobacco plant.

Its MOA is similar to that of a soap, dissolving the protective coatings of the bugs, so they desiccate and die. Also similar to soaps, it is an eye irritant, but other than that is nontoxic and unlike soaps, not phytotoxic.

It is listed generally for soft-bodied insects and mites, including the varroa mite that wipes out honey bee hives. Interestingly though, it has no effect on bees.

The is one major issue with the product: availability. The OMRI-approved manufacturing plant apparently lost its approval, and a new one has been very difficult to find and to get production scheduled, so there is currently no inventory anywhere. 

The commercial distributor of the product does have another insecticide/miticide that is available - Oleotrol-I. Like its sister compound, Oleotrol-M, a mildewcide/fungicide, Oleotrol-I uses nanoparticles of vegetable oils to pierce the critters' cell walls, blowing them open using surface energy lowering, and they desiccate and die. I have a few samples, and am about to try it out on some mealiebugs that showed up in a "nursery tank" in my basement. If it looks good, I'll get some in.


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## Ray (Apr 13, 2012)

Extracts may carry a virus, but the manufacturing process and chemical reactions that result in the active chemical will not carry them through.


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## SlipperFan (Apr 13, 2012)

SucraShield is a great product. I got some from Ray a couple years ago because I had an infestation of red spidermites on my Paphs and Phals. I'll vouch for it's effectiveness.


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## Ray (Apr 14, 2012)

What I also like is the safety aspect - containing no toxins, it is safe to use in close quarters. When dividing plants, I keep a spray bottle nearby, and holding the plant with my bare hand, douse it down to make sure it's free of hidden pests. 

No issue whatsoever.


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## mormodes (Apr 14, 2012)

Hopefully someone with a pesticide license will chime in here, but a million years ago when I was an undergrad my botany professor said that just soaking tobacco in a solvent produces an effective insecticide BUT it will also kill you. Nicotine soaks through the skin and affects you too. And if I recall rightly back in the times (pre WWII??) nicotine was used this way and many nursery employees either got sick or had other adverse events. Of course, one could do that to one's employees then... now they got rights, LOL! *G*

Of course, I'm always one to go my own way, I seem to recall trying it by soaking one of Mom's cigarettes in water and all I got was a stinky mess o' water. Didn't affect the bugs at all.

And then, as you say, the old hands in orchid growing always kept smokers out of their greenhouses for fear of TMV. Whether virus transmittal is a myth or reality I can't say.


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## likespaphs (Apr 14, 2012)

mormodes said:


> Hopefully someone with a pesticide license will chime in here, but a million years ago when I was an undergrad my botany professor said that just soaking tobacco in a solvent produces an effective insecticide BUT it will also kill you. Nicotine soaks through the skin and affects you too. And if I recall rightly back in the times (pre WWII??) nicotine was used this way and many nursery employees either got sick or had other adverse events. Of course, one could do that to one's employees then... now they got rights, LOL! *G*
> 
> Of course, I'm always one to go my own way, I seem to recall trying it by soaking one of Mom's cigarettes in water and all I got was a stinky mess o' water. Didn't affect the bugs at all.
> 
> And then, as you say, the old hands in orchid growing always kept smokers out of their greenhouses for fear of TMV. Whether virus transmittal is a myth or reality I can't say.



i have a pesticide license but, well, don't know all about this....
i think Andy once chided me for mentioning tmv and orchids in the same post. i think he was saying tmv doesn't affect orchids (i was saying that smokers shouldn't get near things in the tobacco/tomato/potato family as tmv is all over).
perhaps you didn't soak the enough cigarettes or for long enough. it is a way to get a nicotine based pesticide but nicotine is a very broad, non-selective pesticide which has high mammalian toxicity. 
i don't know what the appropriate way to soak/dilute a homemade nicotine solution either but it is definitely dangerous.....

feel like this was rambling. sorry....


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## cnycharles (Apr 14, 2012)

since sucrashield doesn't contain nicotine, it won't harm you if you spray it all over your hand like ray did... I would allow it to get into your eyes, but your hands are fine as long as you wash them off. sucrashield may have come from a tobacco plant, but doesn't have nicotine as an ingredient (at least in any amount large enough so that it must be listed on the label).

i'm not sure if you were to try and make an insecticide from tobacco leaves if you would need to expose crushed tobacco to alcohol or something like that to pull the chems out; I know some organic substances can have water as a solvent, and others certain alcohols. some pesticides and related chemicals have an rei and warnings about a person being exposed to the solution, but sometimes the active ingredient isn't really poisonous, it may cause burns or more importantly the carrier in the bottle is a petroleum-based chemical which is needed to make the pesticide easily mixed in water, to stabilize the chemical in the bottle or something related like that. 

there is a common insect growth regulator that i can't remember the name of at the moment, comes in a small glass bottle, has a short re-entry interval and some warnings, but that is only because the carrier solvent is kind of nasty; the main ingredient is harmless to people

it's too bad if the sucrashield isn't available at the moment, as I was just telling workers and manager at work that we should get some to use on things that have thrips and other stupid bugs like them that are resistant to everything else


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## mormodes (Apr 14, 2012)

likespaphs said:


> i have a pesticide license but, well, don't know all about this....
> i think Andy once chided me for mentioning tmv and orchids in the same post. i think he was saying tmv doesn't affect orchids (i was saying that smokers shouldn't get near things in the tobacco/tomato/potato family as tmv is all over).
> perhaps you didn't soak the enough cigarettes or for long enough. it is a way to get a nicotine based pesticide but nicotine is a very broad, non-selective pesticide which has high mammalian toxicity.
> i don't know what the appropriate way to soak/dilute a homemade nicotine solution either but it is definitely dangerous.....
> ...



Andy?? Easton? Sorry which Andy are you referring to? If its Easton I'd have more of a tendency to believe him. He's been around forever. If its Andy Phillips I'd have more of a tendency to believe him too. Both are smarter than I'll ever be. 

Like I say I only tried this once many, many decades ago and it was a failure, such that I'd never try it again.

The reason why I brought this up is to try to dissuade people from trying this themselves at home. I think trying to make one's own nicotine pesticide is a recipe for disaster. I believe you are concurring with me. (yes? no?)

Rambling is good. Else Detroit never would have named a car for it.


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## likespaphs (Apr 14, 2012)

um, come to think of it, i don't know which Andy. 
he is MrCym at OSF
Phillips is Andy's Orchids, no?
i've heard of A Easton but don't know anything about him
and yes, i am absolutely agreeing with you trying to dissuade people from making homemade nicotine sprays from butts


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## mormodes (Apr 14, 2012)

Yes, MrCym is Andy Easton. Personally I count him as a friend and IMHO he's one smart fella. Opinionated (as we all are), but smart.


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## quietaustralian (Apr 15, 2012)

Thanks for all the comments. All new plants that come into my collection get a good dose of chemicals before joining the other plants in the greenhouse. I'm not particularly happy about the toxicity of some of these chemicals so I'm looking for alternatives where possible.

I've had plants arrive from some of the biggest and best nurseries infected with various pests.

When you bring new plants into your collections, do inspect the plants, treat with chemical, both or hope for the best?

Regards, Mick


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## vinhpicohp (Apr 21, 2012)

I am interested 

"MOA is similar to that of a soap, dissolving the protective coatings of the bugs, so they desiccate and die. Also similar to soaps, it is an eye irritant, but other than that is nontoxic and unlike soaps, not phytotoxic" . It is extracted from wild tobacco plant.

So I wonder whether the fibre from wild tobacco plant will effect on spider mites? How will we use it?


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## Ray (Apr 21, 2012)

vinhpicohp said:


> ISo I wonder whether the fibre from wild tobacco plant will effect on spider mites? How will we use it?



Probably not. The stuff extracted from the fibers of the wild tobacco plant is sucrose - sugar (which does nothing bad to bugs, attracting more, in fact) - and does not provide control until it is chemically altered into sucrose octanoate.

I suppose that if you had a handful of those fibers and rubbed the plant surfaces thoroughly and vigorously, you might scrape the mites off.


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## Mike (Apr 24, 2012)

Any update on the use of Oleotrol-I. Does it work?


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## orcoholic (Apr 25, 2012)

lol, ray.


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## Ed M (Apr 26, 2012)

I can tell you from first-hand experience, do not use cigarette nicotine as an insecticide. Back in the 1970's I was slightly poisoned by nicotine sulfate, and it doesn't take much. The greenhouse I worked in had some nicotine sulfate on the shelf and we decided to use it. A small amount of mist got on one of my arms and I delayed in washing it off. I got the worst blinding migrane headache in my life. I can't imagine what a serious contact with the stuff would feel like, but it only takes about five drops to kill you. Its one of the most deadly poisons known.


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## Ray (Apr 26, 2012)

Mike said:


> Any update on the use of Oleotrol-I. Does it work?



Still haven't gotten around to trying it, Mike.


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