# Paphiopedilum helenae forma delicatum



## ORG (Apr 20, 2008)

The new form of Paphiopedilum helenae was described at first as a distinct species in China by Liu and Zhang as Paphiopedilum delicatum.
Last month we combined it in 'Die Orchidee', the journal of the German Orchid Society to a new form of Paph. helenae because the difference was only the colour.






















*Paphiopedilum helenae forma delicatum*






I hope that this extraordinary nice clone will be propagated artificially soon.

Best greetings

Olaf


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## John M (Apr 20, 2008)

That is spectacular Olaf! I really like this. I can't wait until they are available.


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## SlipperFan (Apr 20, 2008)

John M said:


> That is spectacular Olaf! I really like this. I can't wait until they are available.


I totally agree!


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## myxodex (Apr 20, 2008)

Beautiful! I also hope they are propagated soon.
Thanks for posting.
Tim


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## Greenpaph (Apr 20, 2008)

Superb clone!


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## rdlsreno (Apr 20, 2008)

Yeah!! Artificially propagated!!!


Ramon


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## Jorch (Apr 20, 2008)

The color is really good! Can't wait to see it used in selfing or hybrids.


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## Faan (Apr 21, 2008)

A very beautiful flower.


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## Hien (Apr 21, 2008)

ORG said:


> The new form of Paphiopedilum helenae was described at first as a distinct species in China by Liu and Zhang as Paphiopedilum delicatum.
> Last month we combined it in 'Die Orchidee', the journal of the German Orchid Society to a new form of Paph. helenae because the difference was only the colour.
> 
> 
> ...



Olaf
I am looking at the page that you posted.
The paper from Liu & Zhang says the species is in central vietnam in the tittle.


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## Elena (Apr 21, 2008)

Really nice colours, very pretty.


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## NYEric (Apr 21, 2008)

Hien said:


> Olaf
> I am looking at the page that you posted.
> The paper from Liu & Zhang says the species is in central vietnam in the tittle.



Does it matter? You can't have one anyway if it's from Vietnam! oke:


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## Hien (Apr 21, 2008)

NYEric said:


> Does it matter? You can't have one anyway if it's from Vietnam! oke:



Maybe it is better for me that it is from China then.


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## NYEric (Apr 21, 2008)

I agree. BTW What's to stop China from "incorporating" Vietnam like it did to Tibet!


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## Hakone (Apr 21, 2008)

NYEric said:


> Does it matter? You can't have one anyway if it's from Vietnam! oke:



Hallo Olaf,
After Leonid Averyanov Paphiopedilum helenae was found in north Vietnam
After Liu and Zhang Paphiopedilum helenae forma delicatum was found in central Vietnam
between north and central Vietnam is appropriate for 500 km distance, is that possible? :sob:


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## Hien (Apr 21, 2008)

Hakone said:


> Hallo Olaf,
> After Leonid Averyanov Paphiopedilum helenae was found in north Vietnam
> After Liu and Zhang Paphiopedilum helenae forma delicatum was found in central Vietnam
> between north and central Vietnam is appropriate for 500 km distance, is that possible? :sob:


Hakone
:rollhappy::rollhappy::rollhappy:

Leonid is correct to say that it is found in North Vietnam if you looking with the view point of modern Vietnam geographical border. In fact in the future it may be in a province of China, if the current vietnamese government keep gift away their border land to China similar to what they do with their 1999 treatise. The real sad fact is the vietnamese/Chinese border gate (AI NAM QUAN as called by Vietnameses) now is well inside China's territory.

Liu & Zhang is also correct in saying that it is found in central Vietnam , I am sure the two chinese authors have in their minds the land belong to the Viet (or perhaps what used to be the land of the 100 yueh tribes or Viet tribes which is southern half of China today ) during the Trung sisters' uprising AD 12-43 who united 65 cities & strongholds

:rollhappy::rollhappy::rollhappy:


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## Park Bear (Apr 21, 2008)

wonderful flower


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## Hakone (Apr 21, 2008)

Hien said:


> Hakone
> :rollhappy::rollhappy::rollhappy:
> 
> Leonid is correct to say that it is found in North Vietnam if you looking with the view point of modern Vietnam geographical border. In fact in the future it may be in a province of China, if the current vietnamese government keep gift away their border land to China similar to what they do with their 1999 treatise. The real sad fact is the vietnamese/Chinese border gate (AI NAM QUAN as called by Vietnameses) now is well inside China's territory.
> ...


Hello Hien,

geographically Viet Nam is smaller than China .
Truong sa and hoang sa left those the USA us alone . Was can we do?.


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## NYEric (Apr 21, 2008)

Next year vietnam will be a chinese province!


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## Berrak (Apr 21, 2008)

That was intresting - a fantastic beutiful flower.


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## paphreek (Apr 21, 2008)

Absolutely wonderful photos. I like the color. Thanks, Olaf!


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## Roth (May 5, 2008)

The helenae we know for years ( the "yellow" helenae) is coming from Cao Bang, close to the Chinese border. There is a very good type of micranthum coming from there too.

The helenae delicatum comes from Tuyen Quang province. The plants as a whole are usually larger than the "yellow" Cao Bang type. Many have been exported to China. Overall the plants are easier to collect than the ones from Cao Bang ( the former grows on stone firmly anchored, delicatum grows on moss cushions) and they look nearly like seed-grown plants immediately after collection, so they were favored by a couple of Chinese traders for a couple of years. That type usually has stronger growth habit, with slightly larger leaves than Cao Bang type.

The province of Yen Bai has the giant type of helenae, like a normal helenae, but up to 8 cm flowers and the leaves can be up to 25 cm. The shape however is not as good as the Cao Bang type, and the flowers are of a muddy brown color mostly with "some" yellow...

Only some of the plants from Cao Bang can compete to be the smallest paph species. The smallest paph species I have ever seen for sure is a colony of Paph. coccineum from Moc Chau, the plants always are 4 cm leafspan, 5 maximum ( and 3-4 cm flowers !!!). That is the red type of coccineum as well, with the nearly red flowers. I think when more material will be available, coccineum will prove to have at least one forma. There are 2 types too of coccineum, one with plants that are about the size of henryanum, and brownish flowers, one with smaller plants and red flowers...


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## quietaustralian (Jan 8, 2011)

*Mystery Paph. ????*

The original post was missing the last page of this plant description, I have pasted it below. It appears that a large number of helenae were shipped to China from Việt Nam, a plant bloomed differently and this was described as delicatum.
The author of the article indicates that he was told that the plants came from central Việt Nam but its common for collectors to give false information.:ninja:
I have not doubt that the plants came from Nth Việt Nam and possibly from Tuyên Quang as Sanderianum said.

I have been looking for this form for a number of years without luck. I have spent quite a few weeks in Tuyên Quang and have found reds, muddy brown and the usual coloured helenae but no delicatum.

The only pics I have seen of delicatum seem to be this same plant from different angles.

1) Has anyone seen any other pics of this form?
2) Are these plants in cultivation?
3) Does anyone have contact details for the author of the original article?

Regards, Mick


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## tenman (Jan 9, 2011)

Send me the red ones. Please.


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## quietaustralian (Jan 9, 2011)

tenman said:


> Send me the red ones. Please.



I would if I could but I can'toke:


I may have some red helenae flasks later in the year. Most are spoken for but I'll see how they go.

Regards, Mick


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## fibre (Jan 9, 2011)

tenman said:


> Send me the red ones. Please.



Hey Mick, do you have pics of the red ones to post them here?


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## Shiva (Jan 9, 2011)

I can't believe I missed this one until now. Such a beautiful flower.


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## quietaustralian (Jun 8, 2011)

quietaustralian said:


> The original post was missing the last page of this plant description, I have pasted it below. It appears that a large number of helenae were shipped to China from Việt Nam, a plant bloomed differently and this was described as delicatum.
> The author of the article indicates that he was told that the plants came from central Việt Nam but its common for collectors to give false information.:ninja:
> I have not doubt that the plants came from Nth Việt Nam and possibly from Tuyên Quang as Sanderianum said.
> 
> ...



As Xavier is back, I thought I'd give this thread a bump.

Regards, Mick


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## Heather (Jun 8, 2011)

Zut alors, I have missed one!

Thanks for the bump Mick!


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## carrilloenglish (Jun 8, 2011)

Truly beautiful.


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## NYEric (Jun 8, 2011)

legally collected and exported! Whee! :rollhappy:


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## quietaustralian (Jun 13, 2011)

Heather said:


> Zut alors, I have missed one!
> 
> Thanks for the bump Mick!



This plant is number one on my wife’s want list. I could score quite a few points if I came home with one of these but this plant is on my mystery Paph list.

Considering this plant was described based on plants found in a plant nursery, could this be a hybrid e.g. helenae x ? x helenae? Anyone like to comment on the shape of the pouch and the large synsepalum?

Regards, Mick


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## Bolero (Jun 13, 2011)

Very nice! I need to give mine more shade as your leaves are beautiful and green whereas mine are much lighter.


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