# Size of Phrag. Patty Wak



## Ladyslipper2020 (Mar 4, 2010)

Hi, would anyone tell me if the Phrag. Patty Whak Cross: (longifolium hincksianum x Robert Palm 'Roberto' AM/AOS) gets real big or is it more compact. I have my suspicions about the influence of the longifolium but i am not sure.

thanks, m


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## Leo Schordje (Mar 4, 2010)

Phrag hinksianum is one of the 'mid-size' variants of Phrag longifolium. While its leaves are narrow, they are not short, it is not a 'tiny' plant. In the hybrid, the other parent will widen the leaves, the narrow leaves is not a dominant trait in the on/off Mendalian sense. Ofspring may be intermediate in leaf broadness. The larger parent of Robert Palm, Phrag czerwiakowianum is a medium large to robust member of the boissierianum group, leaves over two foot long are not unheard of. So I would bet the hybrid Patty Wak will be a medium to large Phrag when mature. For a 3 or 4 growth plant I would expect to need a 5 inch pot and at least 24 inches of head space for the leaves. The bloom spike could be taller. It should make a nice display plant.


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## Ladyslipper2020 (Mar 5, 2010)

*Phrag Patty Whak*

Hi Leo, thanks for the info. Here's another question i forgot to write about when I posted the Patty Whak question. I am trying to remember what hybrid of Phrag. Hanne Papow doesn't try to crawl out of the pot when it matures. 

Does anyone know? 

thanks, m:chick::chick:


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## Kevin (Mar 5, 2010)

Not sure, but my guess would be anything with a low percentage of besseae in it. Have you tried looking at PhragWeb? http://www.phragweb.info/phragmipedium/hybrids/infrageneric/display_infrageneric_hybrid.asp?phrag_id=138


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## smartie2000 (Mar 5, 2010)

it is not going to be a small plant, but it will be a managable one. probably 2 feet wide if it get many growths (by then you can divide it to keep it small, if you must)


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## Leo Schordje (Mar 5, 2010)

Ladyslipper said:


> Here's another question ...... what hybrid of Phrag. Hanne Papow doesn't try to crawl out of the pot when it matures.



Bad News:

None, both parents of Hanne Popow (besseae & schlimii) tend to climb. The vast majority of Hanne Popow and of St Ouen (Hanne Popow x besseae) tend to climb. 

There are individual clones of besseae that don't climb much, same for schlimii. Almost all batches of all besseae hybrids will have some clones that will constantly climb, and some clones that rarely send out climbing rhizomes. I think, but I have no documentation, in low light conditions I get more climbing than in high light. But even a clone that behaves nicely for years at a stretch will suddenly send out a few climbing rhizomes. It is something we just have to live with. This is one of the reasons that in spite of the vigor of many Phrag crosses, you don't see many CCM or CCE awards. It is hard to grow a large specimen, because you are always fighting the climbing tendancy. 

More often than not, once a climbing rhizome & growth is a year or two old, I tend to cut them off, and root them up separate from the main plant. The older back growth in the original pot often then will send out new growths and you just have to cross your fingers and hope that this new growth doesn't climb too, (sometimes you get lucky). The new division becomes your "heir and a spare" if you like that clone.

I have tried bending and then wiring down climbing growths, it is often an excersize in futility, though sometimes it works.

Hybrids with 25% or less of besseae, where the other parent is not normally a climber, do stay in their pots better. For examble;

After-Glo and any other hybrid where one parent is Sorcerer's Apprentice. 

Some clones of Phrag Jason Fisher behave nicely. Or behave for several years then send out a climber.

Phrag hybrids with a member of the Phrag caudatum group as a parent tend to behave most of the time. 

I have found that kovachii hybrids are capable of climbing. My clone of Phrag Allison Strom leaps up 4 inches every new growth. So this is a problem throughout the whole range of Phrag species and hybrids.


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## NYEric (Mar 5, 2010)

If you're worried about stolonous growth I'll post some photos that will discourage you totally.


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## Scott Ware (Mar 5, 2010)

NYEric said:


> If you're worried about stolonous growth I'll post some photos that will discourage you totally.



I am hopeful you will limit these to photos of a horticultural nature.


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## Yoyo_Jo (Mar 5, 2010)

:rollhappy::rollhappy::rollhappy:


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## NYEric (Mar 5, 2010)

What else!?


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