# Speaking of lindenii...



## Heather (Jun 17, 2006)

The buds have all of the sudden begun to plump rapidly. I am torn, I'd like this to still be fresh in bloom for my July 8th OS meeting so I hope it takes another week to open, but probably will start sooner.


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## Jmoney (Jun 17, 2006)

very nice. but even it opens now it oughta be fine for 7/8...with fully extended petals too.


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## phrag guy (Jun 17, 2006)

very nice,can hardly wait to see it fully open


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## Heather (Jun 17, 2006)

Thank you.
I really like taking these in to my society meetings because they are not regularly seen. We only have a few serious slipper growers in my society (and I'm the only woman, which I find fascinating!)


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## Rick (Jun 17, 2006)

4 on one spike too.:clap: :clap: 

Good growing Heather


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## Marco (Jun 18, 2006)

:clap: Great plant, it looks very happy! Can't wait to see the blooms.


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## adiaphane (Jun 18, 2006)

Your lidenii looks wonderful and I'm sure it will be a knockout just like your caudatum was.


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## Heather (Jun 18, 2006)

Hey, one bud started opening today and - no kidding you - there really is *no* pouch!  
How cool is that??


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## Heather (Jun 19, 2006)

I thought this was a neat stage. Very fetal.


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## blueovalgal (Jun 19, 2006)

Wow, that is cool!


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## adiaphane (Jun 19, 2006)

That is one lovely shot. Great pic.


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## kentuckiense (Jun 19, 2006)

When it opens fully do you think you can get a shot of the fabled third pollinia in contact with the stigma?


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## Heather (Jun 19, 2006)

kentuckiense said:


> When it opens fully do you think you can get a shot of the fabled third pollinia in contact with the stigma?



No.

Not for you, sorry...


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## Marco (Jun 19, 2006)

:drool:


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## kentuckiense (Jun 19, 2006)

Heather said:


> No.
> 
> Not for you, sorry...



Them's fightin' wordS.


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## Heather (Jun 19, 2006)

kentuckiense said:


> Them's fightin' word.



LOL! 
(Zach needs to get down w/ that n'east sarcasm thang!)

I am SO kidding you - will try...


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## kentuckiense (Jun 19, 2006)

Heather said:


> n'east/QUOTE]
> =northeast?
> 
> I don't know.
> ...


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## Billie (Jun 21, 2006)

*This is the best stage*

when you just can't wait to see it all unfold -- don't leave us hanging please post more great pics -- well done so many flowers --
billie:drool:


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## Wendy (Jun 21, 2006)

Good blooming Heather! Now post more pictures darn it!oke:


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## kentuckiense (Jun 21, 2006)

Given any thought as to letting one of the pods mature and maybe getting a little flasking done?


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## Heather (Jun 21, 2006)

You people will be sorry you asked for more photos. 
Billie, that is my favorite stage also.
Zach...hrm, not sure? If I grew the capsule I'd probably send it to Troy Meyers. Maybe...

I think this plant is so fricken cool! 
Every time I look at it, I have to remind myself - hey- no pouch! Makes me laugh.


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## Marco (Jun 21, 2006)

:drool: again! I want one so bad! Heather how big does it get?


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## Heather (Jun 21, 2006)

Marco said:


> :drool: again! I want one so bad! Heather how big does it get?



Mine's a good 18-20" in leafspan, maybe a little more. 
Not a small plant - more akin to caudatum than to warscewiczeanum/popowii.


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## Marco (Jun 21, 2006)

Heather said:


> Mine's a good 18-20" in leafspan, maybe a little more.
> Not a small plant - more akin to caudatum than to warscewiczeanum/popowii.



Man that is a big plant. What kind of potting medium do you use? In comparison to your strap leaf multis do you give them more or less light?


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## Heather (Jun 21, 2006)

Marco said:


> Man that is a big plant. What kind of potting medium do you use? In comparison to your strap leaf multis do you give them more or less light?



My Paphs and Phrags get the same light whenever possible. South facing, w/ supplemental to cover cloudy days. 

Potting medium is that of your Eva Weigner (at least for now). CHC/Diatomite/ a little perlite and charcoal. They seem to dig it. These have not been repotted since I first got them two years ago - about the longest in my collection! I am finding that those in spike dry out much faster than when not in spike. Remarkably faster!


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## Gideon (Jun 23, 2006)

Very nice, I *need* one of these


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## Heather (Jun 25, 2006)

*Update*

Still waiting for most of the petals to drop. It will be a challenge to keep the petals from touching anything - it is just a mess of 'em right now.


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## SlipperFan (Jun 25, 2006)

That is looking really good!


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## Marco (Jun 25, 2006)

:drool:


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## kentuckiense (Jun 26, 2006)

_so pretty flowers i like long petalls_


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## Wogga (Jun 26, 2006)

ungh! i NEED one!


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## Heather (Jun 26, 2006)

kentuckiense said:


> _so pretty flowers i like long petalls_



Zachary - are you trying to make trouble? lol...
Cut that out...hehe...

Okay, this plant is so bizarre. The first one dropped its petals (from the dorsal and synsepals, not completely!) and the other five are just growing and growing and not dropping...is this normal? 

I'm tempted to carry it around the house in a little in hopes that they will jostle like the first bud did (as I was photographing it when it dropped) but it seems the petals might be longer if left alone. Has anyone seen this sort of behaviour before? Very curious!


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## Heather (Jun 29, 2006)

I am still waiting for the petals to unfurl before I take more photos. 
This plant is SO unruly with all those petals! 

Actually, I have a Wildcatt Request - can someone send me a pdf of lindenii? I'm curious what the normal petal length is (mine seem awfully short so far!) 
Thank you. 

Also, one bud bloomed upside down, with the lower petal coming from the top! I thought it was just backwards, but the top is the bottom - if there were a pouch, it would be on top, near the dorsal. Does that make sense? Very strange, but hard to actually notice it, I had to look several times to see what was up. I am planning on bringing this to (maybe) both NHOS and MOS meetings in the next couple weeks, mostly for it's freak factor. I wonder if anyone else will notice it?


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## Heather (Jun 30, 2006)

Here's the upside down flower.


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## kentuckiense (Jun 30, 2006)

Upsidedown flower? Lien woulda pitched that one!

Excellent growing, by the way. It looks great.


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## bench72 (Jun 30, 2006)

hmmm... yes, I think you best quarantine it... better yet, send it to Oz! It'll be far enough so that it doesn't affect any plant on the continent! oke:


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## SlipperFan (Jun 30, 2006)

Without a pouch/lip, how can you tell if it's upside-down????


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## Heather (Jun 30, 2006)

The petal is emerging from the top! 
Or, maybe all the other ones are upside down?


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## PHRAG (Jun 30, 2006)

Heather said:


> The petal is emerging from the top!
> Or, maybe all the other ones are upside down?


 
That's trippy. Maybe you were standing on your head when you took the photo.


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## SlipperFan (Jun 30, 2006)

Whatever, it's very cool-looking!!!


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## Heather (Jun 30, 2006)

PHRAG said:


> That's trippy. Maybe you were standing on your head when you took the photo.



Not this time...


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## Jmoney (Jun 30, 2006)

nicely bizarre, nothing quite like it.


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## Heather (Jul 1, 2006)

Darn. I think it self-pollinated already! The oldest bloom is fading, but unlike all of the other caudatum types, it has no browning on the dorsal or synsepal. Just droopy. It sure wasn't open for very long, only since June 18th. Wonder if it will still be worth taking to my meeting next week.


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## Rick (Jul 1, 2006)

Dang that's allot of danglys! That's a great specimen Heather:clap:


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## silence882 (Jul 1, 2006)

Great pics!

Could you take an up close shot of the staminode? and perhaps a side view?

Phrag. lindenii has a, "third anther that is borne on a filament long enough to push the pollen mass against the base of the stigmatic surface while the flower is still in the bud stage. This ensures that every flower will be self-pollinated."

Source:McCook, Lucile M. "An Annotated Checklist of the Genus Phragmipedium." Orchid Digest special publication (1998): 1-12.

--Stephen


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## Heather (Jul 1, 2006)

Thanks, but I'm kind of annoyed by it actually. I wanted to take it to my meetings. Wah... But, the plant is not about ME and evolutionarily, I suppose that is pretty damn amazing actually. No pouch = no pollinators to get stuck so the plant had to invent its own system. Okay. Maybe I'm not SO annoyed...

Stephen, I will try, I am not good at close-up shots and the dorsals hang WAY over. That is definitely what is going on though, you can clearly see that the third anther is touching the back of the stamnode. 

Perhaps this would explain why there are only two awarded plants (three if you count a CBM - thanks Lien for the wildcatt data today) and why the petals seem to be so short compared to the other caudatum types? They aren't given enough *time* to *grow*!


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## Jmoney (Jul 1, 2006)

I've never owned a lindenii...can you remove the pollen when the flower opens to avoid it self-pollinating?

I think there's some genetic work linking lindenii as closer to wallisii, and the caudatum/wars being more closely related as well. makes sense since lindenii looks a lot like a pouchless wallisii, and both of them tend to have smaller flowers with slightly shorter petals (compared to the other two).


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## Heather (Jul 1, 2006)

Okay, Stephen...I can try for a few more of these in the natural light Monday or Tuesday if the sun is out, but see if any of these will work for you.

(Actually the upside down one was most obliging as I was able to lift it's petal up to raise the synsepal.)


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## silence882 (Jul 1, 2006)

Heather, thanks much for the pics, they're just what I was looking for. Phrag. lindenii is the only cypripedioid that has a third fertile anther. The pouch probably evolved away after the self-pollination had started.

Dressler in a 2005 OD article makes wallisii a subspecies of lindenii since lindenii was described first.

--Stephen


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## PHRAG (Jul 1, 2006)

Evolution is awesome!


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## JB_Orchidguy (Jul 5, 2006)

Very nice plant. I have heard about this plant, but never seen one. Thanks for sharing.


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## Rob Zuiderwijk (Jul 5, 2006)

@Stephen

If I may be so bold...

My young _Phrag_. _lindenii_ produced its first flower two months ago. I have taken some photos for PhragWeb (which I still have to upload by-the-way). I thought you might like the two photos below.











Does this one make you think of a cow from some cartoon as well...  


@ Heather,

I had the same experience as you with my flower. It faded a little and then dropped looking quite fresh, like most other phrags do. 
On the bright side. It gave me the opportunity to disect the flower and make some good photos.

All the best,

RZu.


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## SlipperFan (Jul 5, 2006)

The top one looks like something one might find alongside the road. The bottom one looks a bit like a little bull. Interesting angles!


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## silence882 (Jul 5, 2006)

Very nice pics!

And yes, definitely a cow. I think its horns are the 'anther depressor mechanism' that Koopowitz talks about...

The third anther is just flat out weird.

--Stephen


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## Heather (Jul 6, 2006)

Excellent photos! Thanks Rob!!


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## Gideon (Jul 6, 2006)

Very nice H :clap: :clap: :clap:


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## Gideon (Jul 6, 2006)

Great photos Rob


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## Marco (Jul 6, 2006)

Heather no lindenii for me. :sob: I saw Jane's phrags and realized how big they get. I can't house one. And student loan payments start this month.  Maybe in a year or so when some plants die off and when I have a real 9-5 (something I'm not to excited about). Maybe by then I'll be able to get a lindenii and kovachii and for a finger and not an arm.

This sucks too cause Glen Decker's coming next week to my LOS meeting.


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## Heather (Jul 6, 2006)

Well, Marco, I have to say I prefer the wallisii now that I have seen this one in person. It is VERY ultra cool from an evolutionary standpoint, but as far as beautiful goes, the plant is a bit of a mess, petals everywhere, and not nearly as long as the other species, and the blooms last for a significantly shorter time than any of the other long petaled species Phrags. 

I have plucked all but the last bloom off. If this one can keep from pollinating itself before Saturday, I will still bring it to New Hampshire for the novelty factor, but I fear it will last that long.

Say 'HI!' to Glen for me please!! He's such a nice guy!


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## Marco (Jul 6, 2006)

Heather I'll definately say hi to Glen for you.  

Has it pollinated it self yet?

Well you know if you don't like youre lindenii and want to get rid of it you can always give it to me oke:. I'm sure I can make some room for them. (The huge noid phals will be going on their way out next)


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## kentuckiense (Jul 6, 2006)

Rob-
Those photos are great. Exactly what I've been trying to see. Thanks for sharing them.


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## Heather (Jul 6, 2006)

Marco said:


> Has it pollinated it self yet?



Yep, 5x over! lol! If I bring it up to NH, people will marvel at the pods, at least, hahaha!


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## Marco (Jul 6, 2006)

Heather said:


> Yep, 5x over! lol! If I bring it up to NH, people will marvel at the pods, at least, hahaha!



Really?? cool! Well at least you'll have something to show to the people at the meeting...lol


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## Heather (Jul 8, 2006)

I had one fresh bloom still open today - enough to garner a 2nd place ribbon. 
A fellow grower said that he has a lindenii that did not self pollinate, and that the blooms lasted a couple months. Much longer than my little whore of a plant who clearly is just interested in hot sex...


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## silence882 (Jul 8, 2006)

You may wanna give him a good swift kick in the ass when you next see him. The plants self-pollinate before the buds are even open...

--Stephen



Heather said:


> I had one fresh bloom still open today - enough to garner a 2nd place ribbon.
> A fellow grower said that he has a lindenii that did not self pollinate, and that the blooms lasted a couple months. Much longer than my little whore of a plant who clearly is just interested in hot sex...


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## Heather (Jul 8, 2006)

ok, well no one there seemed to be aware of that! lol!


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