# Phrag leaf tip problem



## koshki (Mar 26, 2011)

I spent quite a bit of time today trying to figure out what is wrong with two of my phrags...Sedenii and Schroederae.


They start like this. You can see in the background another leaf where this is not advancing.


But even after I cut that off with a sterile knife and apply cinnamon to the cut, the brown keeps slowly advancing.

At first I thought it was over-fertilizing, but I haven't fertilized them since this started, and I only applied it once. They were repotted in fresh, clean CHC in November. I haven't taken them out of the pot, but I can see nice, healthy new roots throught the pot.

When I water, the pot is flushed with lots of water. It is tap water, but our water is supposed to be pretty good, and again, it's just these two plants.

This is affecting about 1/3 of each of the plants...not all the leaves, and not the new leaves. I'm worried about these guys because they are the biggest, and most expensive phrags I have. Plus, I would really love to see them bloom!

Any ideas what this is, and how I should treat this?


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## Shiva (Mar 26, 2011)

Both hybrids are doing the same for me. They always produce new growths while other leaves yellow and die. I've no idea why but I also have a schlimii that does the same thing and it's a parent in both hybrids. I don't worry too much about it since the plants grow vigorously anyway. I usually cut the leaves affected or pull them out when they've gone brown.


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## koshki (Mar 26, 2011)

I should add that I am growing indoors, under lights, with fans running all the time. It is generally in the mid to low 60s in my sunroom, but humidity is low.


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## koshki (Mar 26, 2011)

Aside from looking ugly, some of the leaves are getting kind of stumpy, and I'm worried I won't have enough leaves to support the plant.

They are both growing new leaves, new growths and new roots, but no spikes.


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## NYEric (Mar 26, 2011)

schlimii needs pure water. Try distilled and see if the problem stops.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Mar 26, 2011)

This looks like most of my phrags. Leaf tip browning is just part of the phrag growing game. My species do not do it as often as the hybrids, although I used to find sargentianum to be a particular offender.


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## SlipperFan (Mar 26, 2011)

Some of my Phrags do this, also. And some worse than others. I read somewhere, I think it was on the Ofe website, that when there is a yellow edge between the green and the brown, that is an indication of other problems besides leaf tip burn or dryness, but they didn't say what.

I try to cut the leaf (sterile blade) well beyond the yellow edge, and that seems to help stop the yellowing.


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## koshki (Mar 26, 2011)

I have cut it a couple times, but it just seems to keep advancing.

I'm not sure I can manage distilled water on a regular basis (wheelchair and all), but maybe I'll try it for a while and see if it helps.

But so far, it doesn't seem like anyone thinks this is a fungal/bacterial or virus problem? So I don't need to treat this with anything?


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## NYEric (Mar 26, 2011)

koshki said:


> But so far, it doesn't seem like anyone thinks this is a fungal/bacterial or virus problem? So I don't need to treat this with anything?



Not from the tip like that; unless there is some apparent pest at work.


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## koshki (Mar 26, 2011)

Well, that is a relief! I spent an hour on line and another in Lowes today trying to figure out what kind of remedy I needed.


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## toddybear (Mar 27, 2011)

I have that problem on most of my phrags as well...it is a bit of a turn off. My paphs don't seem to have any sorts of problems. I personally would not bother with phrags if they weren't so darn nice! Especially the red tones....why can't there be a red or purple Paph!


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## Erythrone (Mar 27, 2011)

Did you take a look at the roots?


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## Ray (Mar 28, 2011)

I consider myself to be a beginner with phrags, but growing them in S/H culture and watering them thoroughly every 3-5 days, I see none of that.

I - like most everyone else - have always focused on mineral issues causing that, whether they be from the water supply, the fertilizer, or the medium (especially in the case of CHC), but I'm beginning to think that this might also be related to the accumulation of plant waste products as well.

A few years ago, several of us tested the pH of the solution in the S/H reservoir at fixed period following a thorough watering (when the pH was that of the applied solution), and we found it to plummet in a matter of days. I don't recall what plants, and lost the data we had, but it was astounding.

If I add to that anecdotal evidence, the fact that some phrags prefer to grow with their root systems literally trailing in streams, where there ain't nothin' accumulating, maybe I'm onto something.


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## NYEric (Mar 28, 2011)

I agree, insufficient watering, accumulation of salts, and breakdown of media are the 3 biggest problems with phrags.


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## Leo Schordje (Mar 31, 2011)

I too am one of the proponents of more water. Or maybe more frequent water. For growing purposes, think of Phrags as "Aquatic Cymbidiums", rather than as a variation on Paphs. Like Cymbidiums, most Phrags want it quite bright, and they really are semi-aquatic plants when you take a look at the habitat descriptions. Stream bank, splash zones of water falls, wet grasslands on seeps, like hanging fens. They do not want to dry between watering, and that water is frequently refreshed. Now I get away with Lake Michigan tap water, as long as I water at least twice a week. Low mineral content is not the issue as much as keeping it fresh is. 

Thats my two cents worth.


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## koshki (Mar 31, 2011)

I'd be surprised if these aren't getting enough water. I water them every 2-3 days, and they have water in the saucer at all times. If they need more, I'll have to keep them in the shower!

I did repot both of these guys this past week. Interesting roots. What appeared to be the roots they came to me with (I got them last November bareroot and potted them up in CHC) were mostly gone. But there were a TON of new roots on both, all looking very happy.

I put them up in bark. Just checking them today, they look fine, but I did cut off all the brown stuff the other day. Both have a number of new growths starting that don't have any brown tips.

So, I'm not really sure what that told me. But if they do better now, I'll know it was the CHC. If not, well, then I'll need a plan B.


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## Shiva (Apr 1, 2011)

I was surprised some years ago when I repotted a Schroderae, The root ball was healthy and at least three times bigger than the foliage. I have two of these plants and I can't remember the last time they flowered. And of course, hey have brown tip leaves all the time. So much for the grow roots to get flowers theory in their case. The vast majority of my phrags are perfectly normal and don't have brown tips and they all get the same light, the same feeding regimen and the same temps.


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## NYEric (Apr 1, 2011)

There was a big hoodoo here about CHC and how most product has to be soaked in pure water repeatedly to remove salts from processing and how it holds salt. I now use a little of it in my mix because some roots seem to love it. Good luck and keep us posted.


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## koshki (Apr 1, 2011)

Shiva, these two plants are big, and in big pots, so they take up quite a bit of precious real estate under my lights. So, I guess I'll have to evaluate whether or not they're "paying back" so to speak, and if they're worth keeping. If they don't bloom for a long time, well, off to the OS raffle table!

Eric, I've been reading elsewhere about washing CHC as well, and I must confess I did not do it to the extent others have recommended (although I did rinse it). The most interesting explanation I heard recently was that the coconut husk acts as a filter for salt water before the plant absorbs it...not sure how that would work for a whole palm tree, but whatever, maybe I misunderstood (first time, lol!). The new roots on my plants certainly seemed "attached" to it!


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## Shiva (Apr 1, 2011)

koshki said:


> Shiva, these two plants are big, and in big pots, so they take up quite a bit of precious real estate under my lights. So, I guess I'll have to evaluate whether or not they're "paying back" so to speak, and if they're worth keeping. If they don't bloom for a long time, well, off to the OS raffle table!



I'm having the same thought!


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## NYEric (Apr 1, 2011)

If I got rid of my non-blooming plants my livingroom would look like a desert!


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## SlipperFan (Apr 1, 2011)

koshki said:


> ...Eric, I've been reading elsewhere about washing CHC as well, and I must confess I did not do it to the extent others have recommended (although I did rinse it). The most interesting explanation I heard recently was that the coconut husk acts as a filter for salt water before the plant absorbs it...not sure how that would work for a whole palm tree, but whatever, maybe I misunderstood (first time, lol!). The new roots on my plants certainly seemed "attached" to it!



I could be wrong, but I understood that the folks who harvest coconuts wash the hulls in saltwater.


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## koshki (Apr 1, 2011)

Lol, Eric! I didn't mean non-blooming, I meant NEVER blooming!

Raises an interesting question...what percentage of your plants are in bloom at any given time?

@ Dot, yeah, I probably didn't have that story correct!


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## NYEric (Apr 1, 2011)

Oh, I know what you meant. I have a bunch of mature phrags and paphs I've had for years and they haven't bloomed yet. With my luck I'd sell/trade them away and they'd bloom awards for someone else!


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Apr 1, 2011)

I haven't seen any connection between phrag root growth and leaf tip browning. I find my phrags have heavy root growth regardless of foliage appearance...even when they haven't been repotted in 4 years and the medium has turned into muck. I have found leaf tip browning to be an individual thing....one plant does it, and will always do it, other plants in the same conditions will never get it. But I have found CHC the kiss of death for phrags, an otherwise hard to kill group. And I have always soaked CHC ad infinitum.....


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