# phrag longifolium and water..



## cnycharles (Sep 12, 2008)

....so I have this plant that originally was a tiny seedling from flask, labeled 'phrag longifolium' and there might have been a clonal or other name that has been lost. A fellow cnyos orchid club member since moved also had a seedling which he grew very well, flowered and someone told him that they thought it looked like a phrag tetzlafianum (sp?). Friend was excited, but then after one of his many trips for work, the plant suffered and then died. My plant is finally getting larger, I would like to know what amounts of water and other cultural conditions that longifolium likes? I know from reading past posts that people have thought that phrag tetzlafianum was a hybrid of some sort, but since this plant was flasked as longifolium I'm going by the assumption that that's what it is. The friend was hopeful that I could trade part of my plant to him at some point, so it would be nice to be able to get the plant to grow larger, stay alive and hopefully flower at some point.

thanks


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## John D. (Sep 12, 2008)

They like clean water, I keep mine in a tray of rainwater about 1/2 inch deep with my other water loving Phrags.


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## Heather (Sep 12, 2008)

If it's longifolium it will be MUCH bigger than tetzlaffianum. Like, two feet bigger, I think. Both like a lot of water but tetzlaffianum is more like caricinum or pearcei, I believe. Much smaller, grassier growth habit, whereas longi is HUGE. 

Can anyone confirm this? I've had both, and they were markedly different, but it was a while ago for both...


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## John M (Sep 13, 2008)

Yes Heather, you are correct. There are different varieties of longifolium, with var. hinksianum being the smallest (I think). Even so, they are all larger than tetzlaffianum, which has dark green leaves that are long and grass-like. In terms of foliage appearance, Phrag. tetzlaffianum looks like an ecuadorense on steroids. The one and only plant that has been identified as Phrag. tetzlaffianum is widely suspected to be a division of Phrag. Simon Marcotte 'Sheila' AM/AOS (Nitidissimum x ecuadorense).


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## cnycharles (Sep 14, 2008)

Hmmm, I saw pearcii yesterday at parkside orchids, and these leaves on my plant are definitely past the 'grass-like' look; they are pretty wide and not nearly as short as the pearcii. When the plant was much younger there were more growths that had more of a grass-like look.
How about a good growing media for moist culture for someone growing in an apartment under lights?
thanks,
charles


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## goldenrose (Sep 14, 2008)

I have a hincksianum & I don't consider it a big plant, it's not small either. I don't have it sitting in water, I water every 2-3 days & it seems just fine.


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## John M (Sep 14, 2008)

It really depends on what works for you. I never stand any Phrags in water. I am a wet grower anyway and my greenhouse is usually very humid. 

Wendy on the other hand, grows under HID lights in the basement and she is constantly trying to keep the humidity up. Plus, because she has to collect and store rain water, she tends to be very careful about not wasting it. I'd call her a dry grower. So, she frequently stands plants in a puddle to help extend the time in between waterings. In her conditions, this trick works wonders! 

If I did the same thing in my greenhouse, I'd have problems. I was at Wendy's on Friday and saw a beautifully grown Paph. platyphyllum seedling (among many others), with about a 12" leafspan. She was keeping it in a puddle. Wendy told me that before the puddle was used, it just sat and did nothing for a couple years; then, she put it into the puddle of rain water and it took off! I could easily tell the plant had experienced some sort of HUGE and sudden boost in it's culture by looking at the leaves. There were a few old, small leaves at the bottom, with the new "puddle" grown leaves on top that were huge and wide and long, compared to the leaves below. 

Wendy often keeps water loving Phrags in a puddle and they do spectacularly well. I've even seen her growing Potted Vandas in a puddle!...with equally spectacular growth and blooming! However, as I said, I couldn't do this. My plants get cooler at night, they experience cloudy days and very high humidity and uneven light levels depending on the time of year. My plants already tend to grow green slime algae on top of the pots at times because the medium stays too wet. Wendy's plants never, ever have that, even when standing in a puddle. The temps are high, the light is high and the humidity is low; so, the plants are very active every day, pumping that water up and out. It just goes to show how the same plants can become adapted to different conditions and thrive. 

It all comes down to the grower being "in tune" with their conditions and when trying something new and tweaking the way they grow their plants, they are also good at correctly interpreting the results and adjusting things accordingly. If you just throw all your plants into puddle dishes and wait to see which ones live and which ones die, that's not growing, that's gambling.


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## Yoyo_Jo (Sep 14, 2008)

Great food for thought, John.


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## Rick (Sep 14, 2008)

My longifolium is also a monster with leaves about 2 feet long and almost 2 inches wide. It's a major weed, and I have it sitting in water.

Then there's amazonica (richteri). It's bigger than pearcei, but smaller than longifolium. Getting back to the "grass" like forms.

These days I switched allot of my "bog" phrags to semi-hydro using hydroton balls.


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## Kevin (Sep 14, 2008)

Rick said:


> These days I switched allot of my "bog" phrags to semi-hydro using hydroton balls.



Good to know! How are they doing?


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## Rick (Sep 14, 2008)

Kevin said:


> Good to know! How are they doing?



I have a pot of pearcie (ecuadorensis) thats been growing great in it for 5+ years. Most of the "switches" are between 1 year to 4 months, and looking good so far. The longifolium is one of the plants that is about 1 year in so far.

I should add that I water with RO water, and fertilize once a week.


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## NYEric (Sep 15, 2008)

I *had*both types of "pearcei" the narrow smallleave type and the bigger type. All I can tell you is that scale and mealies love them and will spray mace in your eyes if you give them a hard time to get rid of them!


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## goldenrose (Sep 15, 2008)

Interesting! I can't remember having any insect problems on phrags. For me it's fungus/ rots/bacterial?


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## NYEric (Sep 15, 2008)

Get yourself a pearcei and I'll send you a packet of pestilence so you can experience the rapture!


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## cnycharles (Sep 15, 2008)

my besseaes have been slowly removed of life by mealybugs that hide in the old sheaths. I have presently replenished my stock of rose and flower spray. of course, if I were to keep the plants happier they might not have the bug problems


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## JeanLux (Sep 16, 2008)

Eric, I agree; I am fighting those beasts on my pearcei since several years now, with pesticides and toothbrush and no success!!! Jean


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## NYEric (Sep 16, 2008)

There must be something in the taste of pearcei because they [mealies and scale] love to eat them. :sob:


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## goldenrose (Sep 16, 2008)

NYEric said:


> Get yourself a pearcei and I'll send you a packet of pestilence so you can experience the rapture!


 
I'm feeling lucky, for a change! I have an ecuadorense 'Shanjar' for over a year now & have had no problems & I fight the mealie bug war on other plants. I have a couple of pearcei crosses & haven't had troubles with them either.


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## NYEric (Sep 16, 2008)

I hope not but, check in the leaves really closely.


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## Candace (Sep 16, 2008)

The only phrag I've ever lost to pests was a pearcei. I agree that for some reason it's a mealie magnet.


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## charlie c (Sep 16, 2008)

I don't know whether the difference in opinion is due to variations in growing conditions or inherent pest resistance of different cultivars; but I haven't had the experience of pearcei being any more of an attraction to mealies than any other plant. 
Now, this is based on a limited sample of two plants. Pearcei 'Candor Red' (my avatar) and a green variety of ecuadorense. 
Maybe a definitive answer might come from a commercial firm growing large blocks of these.

charlie c


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## NYEric (Sep 16, 2008)

How many phrags in the same growing conditions are you comparing w/? I'm talking about in my collection of 220+/- phrags the pearcei weren't the only ones to have problems but definitely *were* the worst!


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## charlie c (Sep 16, 2008)

NYEric said:


> How many phrags in the same growing conditions are you comparing w/? I'm talking about in my collection of 220+/- phrags the pearcei weren't the only ones to have problems but definitely *were* the worst!



Out of your large collection, how many are species and how many are hybrids? Of the many criteria for making hybrids, disease and pest resistance is not an unimportant aspect. These characteristics can be, and many times are, passed along to the offspring. Add to that hybrid vigor (heterosis). These alone may be the difference you're seeing. 

I have no doubt what you are relating is what you have seen. I just don't believe that it is valid for each and every member of the species. And, as I said above, I don't believe we have enough information (large enough sample) to make "broad brush" generalizations.

charlie c


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## NYEric (Sep 17, 2008)

It is possible that you're correct. I'm only making observations from my experience. Luckily most of my plants are hybrids [you know what type :wink:] and happily not a lot pearcei.


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