# paph emersonii informal culture poll



## cnycharles (Dec 2, 2008)

Hello everyone,
I was wondering if those of you that have grown or are growing paph emersonii could post how you grow and pot it? I have a single-growth plant that has been a single-growth plant for about four years. Occasionally it grows a new leaf... and occasionally a bottom one turns brown and dries up. Not stellar, but it's alive! Did just notice yesterday that one of the leaves has a brown spot on it...

thanks,
charles


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## nikv (Dec 2, 2008)

I can't offer any cultural advice but I'm very interested in other people's responses. I recently purchased two tiny emersonii seedlings on eBay and I'm hoping that I can grow them and get them to bloom. Right now, they have about 1-1/2 inch leaf-span, so they have a long way to go!


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## Candace (Dec 2, 2008)

I've had my emersonii growing in s/h for about 6-8 months. It's starting a small second growth now. It's not lost any leaves etc. in the time I've owned it and has definately grown. Probably b.s. now.


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## TADD (Dec 2, 2008)

Is the brown spot wet? If it is I would put cinnamon or some other anti-fungal/ bacteria on it. It will quickyl spread and destroy your plant.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Dec 2, 2008)

I treat emersonii like any other parvi (excluding delanatii)...lots of spongerock and other inert material to open up the mix. I now use bark...had been using CHC. I keep it outdoors until it gets cold....end of October or so. As much light as I give malipoense....bright shade. It stays in my cool room for the winter...usual night temps in winter are 50-55 or so, really cold nights in the 40's. Unlike other parvi's, I have actually gotten emersonii to bloom for me, fairly easily...problem is, it dies within a few months of blooming. Take care, Eric


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## Rick (Dec 2, 2008)

I only have experience with 2 plants, and one is dead now. The second was a seedling from Orchid babies that I've had for about 4 years. For the first couple of years I was growing it kind of bright near some phrags with results about like what you are experiencing. Then I moved it shadier and more humid/coole/breezier near the sweet spot for my sanderianums, and it really took off. It added two new growths this past year, and I'm counting on a blooming this spring.

It's in a CHC mix, but I use oyster shell and (recently) bone meal liberally in the mix. Overall there is not much mix in the pot, and sits up a bit out of the mix, It sometimes sends roots out of the bottom of the pot, and I have added a bit of sponge rock as a top dress to help keep all the shallow roots covered.


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## kentuckiense (Dec 2, 2008)

I have one plant with two mature, unbloomed growths and one new growth.

I grow it in a mixture of bark, spongerock, and marble chips. The roots appear to be nice and healthy.

I grow it hot and humid outside all summer and into mid-October. It is currently under T8 fluoros in my bedroom but gets pretty cool at night (mid 50s, I would guess). I have yet to bloom it. It seems somewhat slow growing, but I think that is because my plant likes to focus on one growth at a time.


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## JeanLux (Dec 3, 2008)

nikv said:


> I can't offer any cultural advice but I'm very interested in other people's responses. I recently purchased two tiny emersonii seedlings on eBay and I'm hoping that I can grow them and get them to bloom. Right now, they have about 1-1/2 inch leaf-span, so they have a long way to go!



same for me! I got a tiny one 2 years ago, repotted last year in bark mix; it's getting new leaves 1 - 2 / year, but it far from bs (ls +/- 10cm)!!!! Jean


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## gotsomerice (Dec 3, 2008)

emersonii is a bit challenging to grow. I have one that flowered once in 4 years, then it lost most of the leaves now this plant has only 3 leaves. I have not seen anymore growth. Hopefully it will survive for me. I had to cut the flower off after it fully opened for one day and harvested the pollens. I had to save the plant since flowering size emersonii is quite expensive to replace.


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## slippertalker (Dec 3, 2008)

My experience is similar to others; I managed to keep this species alive for several years and blooming it was pretty easy. It is not easy to grow long term and seems to get progressively smaller over time. Other than a few scraps, my plants have all gone to the jungle in the sky. Not recommended for beginners.........


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## gotsomerice (Dec 3, 2008)

slippertalker said:


> My experience is similar to others; I managed to keep this species alive for several years and blooming it was pretty easy. It is not easy to grow long term and seems to get progressively smaller over time. Other than a few scraps, my plants have all gone to the jungle in the sky. Not recommended for beginners.........


Hence, the price of the flowering size plant! Most commercial growers can't even keep them alive long term.


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## goldenrose (Dec 3, 2008)

I'm not finding emersonii hybrids to be any easier, I have Joyce Hasegawa & Sugar Suite. Joyce nearly croaked after blooming & Sugar, I've seen no noticable growth in a year.  These will be the only 2 emersonii X's for me!


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## Leo Schordje (Dec 3, 2008)

I had 4 P. emersonii bloom this year. .... BUT all 4 had defects in the flowers for one reason or another. Also I started with about 12 emersonii that I picked up in 2 batches, 6 in 1988 and another 12 in 1998. I am down to 12 plants having lost 6 over the years due to one thing or another. A 66% survival rate over 20 years is not bad, but nothing to brag about either. For me, the older batch has the best form for its flowers, very flat, but these plants are really slow to grow. Most took 8 years or more to their first bloom and most only rebloom once every 4 or 5 years since. 

The latter batch has bigger flowers, seems to grow a little faster and has teriible flower shape. They always look at the ground, are floppy, usually a bit twisted and otherwise just don't pose for the AOS photo look. The later batch seem to bloom every 3 or 4 years instead of 4 or 5. Not much improvement, but a little better. 

I grow mine under 40 watt shop light fluorescents, in the 'cool' section of my basement. It actually gets warm in summer and into the high 50's at night in winter. Heat from the lights brings up temps just a little in daytime. I pot in a fine seedling grade bark mix, with charcol added. I top dress with oystershell. I use Lake Michigan sourced tap water, and 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of MSU Orchid Special every watering. I repot every 2 or 3 years. I do not divide multigrowth plants, only when a division falls off on its own do I pot it up separate. Only 1 clone has been prolific enough to produce more than one division in over 20 years. 

I have had very little disease trouble.I would say emersonii is a slow growing Paph, but not much trouble, just very slow. If you get seed raised plants, from a good breeder like Sam Tsui you should find some seedlings will be more vigorous and not as slow as the ones I bought, the ones I bought so many years ago were probably divisions of originally collected plants. Not many were being produced from seed 20 years ago. So for what it is worth, that's my 2 cents. 

Leo


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## rob (Dec 3, 2008)

I grow emersonii like all my other parvis, a well draining mix; ample summer water,lighter water in the winter. I have several different strains from Florida to California and most grow and bloom for me without problem but I will agree that they are not a speedy grower and I do lose a bit more % of them then other parvis but not that much more. I also have a alkaline h2o source @8.1.
Rob


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## Nutz4Paphs (Dec 3, 2008)

I'll add my 2 cents...emersonii is one of my favorite Paphs. I guess that I have had unusually good luck with the plants and have only lost 1 plant out of the 15 or so that I have grown. These are my tips:

1) open media - inert, quickly draining
2) defining a dry season
3) alkaline water or oyster shell
4) higher winter light
5) only allow to bloom on multiple growth plants!

emersonii is horribly slow growing but it really needs the establishment of a multi growth plant in order to sustain a reasonable amount of vigor. I have noticed a considerable slump in plant vigor after blooming so I have never allowed the flowers to fade on my plants in the last few years. I clip the flowers long before the flowers fade. I have found this to be the better route.

Also, consider the natural growing environment. These plants are always found growing in EXTREMELY steep slopes - almost vertically with roots tightly wedged into small crevasses in the rocks so, I put mine in quickly draining media - keep them far far away from spag moss!!! This is the quickest way to loose the roots - cross my heart, hope to die.

Dont give up on your plants, but know that these plants - although smallish in size - are very slow growing. I bought a couple of plants many years ago - 2 years out of flask - 2 emersonii and 2 roths. The roths BLOOMED 2 years before the emersonii (which both bloomed last year and are still alive :clap Anyway, it is a wonderful yet challenging species and is worth a try if you have the patience and fortitude to experiment a bit.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Dec 3, 2008)

You clip the flowers long before they fade? How long do you keep the blooms..a day or two? Just kidding...but I've never seen it last more than 2, maybe at most 3 weeks. In my experience, the blooms seem to continue to grow for several days after fully opening....last a few more days, then fade. They can have a great fragrance though. Anyone know if the "huonglanae" form from Vietnam behaves any diffeently from Chinese emersonii? Take care, Eric


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## Rick (Dec 3, 2008)

Given its natural growth on limestone and common thread for slow growth, reabsorbing leaves to grow new leaves, or slumps (or death) after blooming I think this species is a good candidate for increased use of a slow release phosphorus source. Either bone meal or phosphoric acid soaked oyster shell.

Natural limestone is generally high in phosphorus (phosphate mines and limestone quarries are often side by side). I live in a karst limestone region, and my well water has a few ppm of phosphate in it.

Phosphorus is critical to energetic demands of plants. liquid fertilizers don't leave much phosphorus in the potting mix as it drains through, unless there is oyster shell in it to absorb the P. MSU (which I also use) has a low P content to start with, but at least if you add oyster shell to the mix, it will retain it longer in the mix for use by the plants.

As I mentioned earlier, my experience with this species is low, but the growth rate of my surviving plant for the last couple of years hasn't been that slow, and it hasn't been eating its leaves while adding new growths. It hasn't bloomed yet , but its only about 5 years out of flask.


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## Rick (Dec 3, 2008)

I would also remind us about the posts of Sanderianum on hangianums, huonglanae (an emersonii twin), and plant nutrition.

Some say he's crazy, but I've been using allot more P because of his success with these species.

There is a thread on huonglanae started on 4/26 that details his growing conditions for this species.

Low light
high humidity
bark mix with natural limestone added
osmocote and a 28/14/14 fertilizer.


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## Nutz4Paphs (Dec 4, 2008)

Re: Eric,
I have left the blossoms on for a week and a half or two weeks before cutting. They have lasted about 3 weeks for me when left on the plant so, Im cutting them off about 2/3 into their bloom life. Seems to work.


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## likespaphs (Dec 4, 2008)

this is one of my very favorite species and i haven't been growing it too well. thanks for the info folks!


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## john mickel (Dec 4, 2008)

You hear this all the time with a lot of imported species - I was at Doc Emersons when he got this " new " species - a clasic example of " new Species " buy. buy, buy - almost everyone can get a 1st bloom - Nature is too hard to duplicate sometimes - john


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## john mickel (Dec 4, 2008)

*Species*

I was with doc emerson when he got this " new Species " and everyone said buy,buy,buy - A lot of people bloomed it once - but few can bloom it again - most imported species fair well - When someone manages to self 1- you can have better luck - I say wait till the expert growers offer the same - john


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## cnycharles (Dec 8, 2008)

thanks for the info, it will definitely be helpful. the brown spot on the one leaf isn't wet, looks more like a burn of some sort. will put something on it anyhow

say, which fungicide was it that someone posted would help to raise zinc and manganese levels for plants like emersonii and maybe a few others? was it dithane?


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## NYEric (Dec 9, 2008)

One w/ zinc and manganese in it!? 
I love emersonii crosses and it sucks to read that they're so difficult [especially the part about dry season]!


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## cnycharles (Dec 9, 2008)

I think mancozeb is a fungicide that has manganese I think, don't know about zinc. There was a post by one of our southeast asian forum members who talked about how he added a fungicide to the media once in a while because he thought testing showed the plants needed more zinc and manganese, and after using it the plants did better; also said that many modern western fertilizers didn't have the right concentrations of stuff for I think things like emersonii and maybe a few others to do better


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## SlipperKing (Dec 10, 2008)

You have it right Charles....Mancozeb or Dithane either name


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## cnycharles (Dec 10, 2008)

SlipperKing said:


> You have it right Charles....Mancozeb or Dithane either name



good, thanks!


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## SlipperKing (Dec 10, 2008)

I'm planning a trip to the store to pick one of them up and give it a try. Once a month application at recommended strengh


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## cnycharles (Dec 14, 2008)

NYEric said:


> One w/ zinc and manganese in it!?
> I love emersonii crosses and it sucks to read that they're so difficult [especially the part about dry season]!



This morning I was re-reading my orchidculture.com culture sheet for emersonii, and it states that in the natural habitat it grows in moss that is on top of basically weathered, packed alkaline mud, but that even in the dry season there is considerable condensation on the rocks which then flows through the moss. The roots grow through the moss and slightly into or at least on top of the wet mud, and because of this continual seepage the roots are intolerant of high salts conditions or true drying. So, it looks like with cooler winter temps it doesn't need high water amounts but definitely shouldn't dry out, and if there is much less water then maybe before the dryish season the media should be flushed to try and clear out some possible excess nutrients. It looks like an excellent candidate for the 'weakly weekly' fertilizing regime. As rick points out, keeping a low amount of P always available like what is found in the weathered limestone mud and possibly from the moss (maybe another good candidate for moss over limestone in a basket) would help the growth rate a bit along with the zinc/manganese from dithane/mancozeb. I'm definitely going to try this one in a moss basket with some crushed coral.


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## SlipperFan (Dec 14, 2008)

You guys are all scaring me. I guess I'd better go and check on my em.


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