# Phrag. caudatum group lip morphology



## naoki (Feb 7, 2014)

As a phrag beginner, P. caudatum group was pretty confusing. They talk about the different shape of the lip margin, but I didn't have a clear idea what they are talking about. And I happened to find a link to this pdf (around the end of p.627, and Figs 3&4), so I thought other Phrag beginners may be interested in.

Dressler & Pupulin 2011. Phragmipedium section Phragmipedium. Orchids: October 626-631.

It was mentioned a couple times in ST, but there wasn't a link to the article, and I think that anyone can see this pdf. It's not a formal taxonomic treatment, but the photos and description in the article helps to understand the morphological differences (also there is a easy key at the end). 

There are lots of discussion involving Dr. Braem and Robert (DrOrchid) in the ST archive (e.g., here and here)


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## NYEric (Feb 7, 2014)

Thanks.


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## SlipperFan (Feb 7, 2014)

Thanks, naoki -- interesting article. One I'll keep.


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## SlipperKing (Feb 8, 2014)

I read the PDF and I must say I know now what to look for! Thanks so much for the link


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## Rick (Feb 9, 2014)

The pdf would have been good to have around when we were disusing the validity of the "gandalf" clone of exstaminodium (which looks like the Chiapas Mexico form) versus the forms coming out of Guatemala.

You almost need to include GPS coordinates for every flower that gets run through the taxonomic wringer in this group. They are very plastic.

I have a plant of Gandalf exstaminodium, and the degree of lack of staminode varies with each flower (on the same spike!!). Sometimes it even has a complete staminode and looks just like a regular humboldtii (from Mexico and not from the Guatemalan side of the boarder) 

I have a paper that is essentially an endangered species summary from the Mexican version of the FWS. It also points to lots of disjoint small populations with highly variable staminode quality. Unfortunately no photos or drawings for lip comparisons. But aside from splitting out the flared lip wallisii (now warczewicksianum or something similar), lip morphology among the dark versions of caudatum will probably have as much variation as the number of discreet populations you can come up with.


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## naoki (Feb 12, 2014)

Rick, thanks for pointing out the "gandalf" situation. It took a couple days to go over the ST archive (and a couple of related articles). Lots of interesting info there.

Is yours a kid of Gandalf, or is it a division? I wonder what kinds of variation (not just staminodes, but lip shape and color too) you get among selfed kids of Gandalf.

I wish all of horticuluralists respect the geographic origins (especially for widely spread species), but that's not their interests most of the time.


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