# Brown Rot Death Count



## Gcroz (Mar 18, 2008)

Well, the tally so far, since 2 weeks ago, is 2 Paph. Ho Chi Minh and 4 emersonii seedlings. Aint this a fun one to tackle. 

Anyone hve any suggestions? I'm treating the plants on the bench, and the infection seems to be in check, but I'm very worried as it seems to be going after my best stuff.


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## Heather (Mar 18, 2008)

What are you using for treatment? 
(where's Lance with his dragon blood...?)


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## NYEric (Mar 18, 2008)

Dragon's Blood from Shop GoneWild applied to the area and keep crowns from getting wet.


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## Hien (Mar 18, 2008)

Gcroz said:


> Well, the tally so far, since 2 weeks ago, is 2 Paph. Ho Chi Minh and 4 emersonii seedlings. Aint this a fun one to tackle.
> 
> Anyone hve any suggestions? I'm treating the plants on the bench, and the infection seems to be in check, but I'm very worried as it seems to be going after my best stuff.



What did you do out of ordinary?
Did you just introduce a new purchased plant with infection into the collection? may be quarantine all the infection plants would help stop the spread?


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## Gcroz (Mar 18, 2008)

Phyton 27 is what I'm using. Where it arrived from, I have no idea. All plants with signs of it have been removed and destroyed. It seems to pop up about once a week, taking a plant or 2. Primarily younger plants. I'll be repotting and treating every Paph. in the gh one day this week.

Never heard of Dragons Blood.


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## Hien (Mar 18, 2008)

You may want to sterilized your potting mix with heat just to be sure before using.
Once, I bought the bark mix, they come with all the molds (I am sure if the mold is there, there must be other dormant nasty stuff that just wait to resurface at the right condition) I end up throwing the mix away


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## NYEric (Mar 18, 2008)

Did you let water from another plant drip into the seedlings? Lots o' threads here about DB, for *on* the plant I think it's good.


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## goldenrose (Mar 18, 2008)

If I have anything suspicious the first thing I grab - Sangre de Grado - Dragon's Blood!!!


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## Candace (Mar 18, 2008)

I always seem to lose a few paphs in the winter months to crown rot. I think I probably lost 7 or 8 this year. Usually smallish one growth seedlings that rot and die seemingly over night. One of my fans died and I've not replaced it. So the decrease in airflow wasn't a good thing! Do you usually lose a couple in the winter or is this a much higher mortality rate for you?

I haven't had to use any chemicals, I just refrain from watering later in the day and keep my air flow high. When I don't do this, I get rot.


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## orcoholic (Mar 18, 2008)

Try spraying with hydrogen peroxide (from the drug store). Use it full strength.

If you think it's in the mix, get a product called ZeroTol. It's supercharged hydrogen peroxide. It's about $100 for a 2.5 gallon container from Griffen's and you dilute it 100 to 1. Works on everything.


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## smartie2000 (Mar 18, 2008)

my paph pinocchio got rot over night one time. I stuffed the crown with lots of dry cinnamin powder and it stopped...


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## charlie c (Mar 18, 2008)

orcoholic said:


> Try spraying with hydrogen peroxide (from the drug store). Use it full strength.
> 
> If you think it's in the mix, get a product called ZeroTol. It's supercharged hydrogen peroxide. It's about $100 for a 2.5 gallon container from Griffen's and you dilute it 100 to 1. Works on everything.



Sounds good. Wondering how do you apply it? As a s foliage spray or a drench, or both? 

I think I looked at this before and was slowed a little because it was not compatible with certain other chemicals and fertilizer. So I'm wondering how you rotate it into your program? Or do you only use on a "when necessary" basis?

Thanks in advance.

charlie c


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## gonewild (Mar 18, 2008)

Dragons Blood will likely stop the infection. It works well and is completely safe to use. You can use it in combination with other treatments if you feel it necessary. It is a mistake not to try it as a simple solution to a bad problem.
We sell it at ShopGoneWild.com 
I will be happy to answer any questions you have about it.


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## Kyle (Mar 18, 2008)

If you want a more chemical solution. I've had excellent results with Phyton 27 and Daconil. I use daconil on freshly deflasked seedlings.

Kyle


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## NYEric (Mar 18, 2008)

I like the natural solution as often as possible or until problems get out of control. Dragon's Blood works well on my Phrags, which I grow in water. If I find a plant w/ a problem I isolate it, remove the affected area if possible, and treat w/ DB.


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## orcoholic (Mar 18, 2008)

charlie c said:


> Sounds good. Wondering how do you apply it? As a s foliage spray or a drench, or both?
> 
> I think I looked at this before and was slowed a little because it was not compatible with certain other chemicals and fertilizer. So I'm wondering how you rotate it into your program? Or do you only use on a "when necessary" basis?
> 
> ...


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## Rick (Mar 18, 2008)

I'll endorse the Dragons Blood too. Use it straight up right on the infected location, and then make a spray of a drop or two per pint and use as a foliar spray and pot drench.


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## Gcroz (Mar 19, 2008)

Ok, bought some Dragons Blood, so I'm giving it a try.

I'm glad you mentioned you usually lose a few in the winter Candace, it makes me feel not so alone. LOL


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## Elena (Mar 19, 2008)

Dragons Blood sounds like some sort of magic potion. I use Phyton 27 if I have to but it scares the beejeesus out of me. I wonder if I can get Dragons Blood in UK? Sounds like it's effective but safe.


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## cwt (Mar 19, 2008)

All good remedies. But since we put up the large g/h we have been doing something totally different. We stepped up the ventilation during the day, so much so that a match can't be lit anywhere in the greenhouse.It is blown out immediately. At night a seperate set of fans are moving the air, the test, cigarette smoke doesnt go up, it is always going up at 45 degrees( a soft movement of air.) Sounds funny, but it works. No more spots, crownrot or brown rot.And no spraying. There is however a downside , we have to water everyday, though the paphs love it.


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## gonewild (Mar 19, 2008)

Elena said:


> Dragons Blood sounds like some sort of magic potion. I use Phyton 27 if I have to but it scares the beejeesus out of me. I wonder if I can get Dragons Blood in UK? Sounds like it's effective but safe.



ShopGoneWild.com ships Dragon's Blood worldwide. It is not heavy so postage is not very expensive.


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## Elena (Mar 19, 2008)

gonewild said:


> ShopGoneWild.com ships Dragon's Blood worldwide. It is not heavy so postage is not very expensive.



Noted and acted upon  I couldn't find it anywhere in the UK anyway.


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## NYEric (Mar 19, 2008)

I think lance actually goes to South America and brews it up himself, its definately got a fermented taste. Probably get you blitzed if consumed in volume! :rollhappy:


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## Elena (Mar 19, 2008)

Fermented taste? You tasted it?


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## NYEric (Mar 19, 2008)

4 drops every morning in my OJ!


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## Elena (Mar 19, 2008)

That explains a few things :evil:


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## gonewild (Mar 19, 2008)

NYEric said:


> I think lance actually goes to South America and brews it up himself, its definately got a fermented taste. Probably get you blitzed if consumed in volume! :rollhappy:



You would not believe what I have to go through to get the pure Dragons Blood. Getting anything from Native people in quantity is a real experience.


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## gonewild (Mar 19, 2008)

Elena said:


> That explains a few things :evil:



No more foot fungus!


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## NYEric (Mar 19, 2008)

Unfortunately the swamp rot I got on my foot drinks DB for fun.


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## Candace (Mar 19, 2008)

I lost another seedling last night. I need to get another fan:<


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## goldenrose (Mar 21, 2008)

NYEric said:


> Unfortunately the swamp rot I got on my foot drinks DB for fun.


Try lavender essential oil.


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## Roth (Mar 21, 2008)

It depends what you call "brown rot death". There are several diseases classified by hobbyists and most professionnal as "bacterial" that are definitely not !

I will scan some reports from a PCR lab with pictures of the sicknesses, when I have time.

A soft watery area with brown rot, very fast, can be related to phytophthora, one strain or erwinia carotovora, one yeast, glomerella sudden attack, pseudomonas, and fusarium. They are totally unrelated, but the symptoms will look exactly the same.

The orange gooey roots of paphs can be due to erwinia, fusarium, phytophthora, bremia, and xanthomonas with secondary infection.

For the dry slow rot, it can be again phytophthora, different strain, or your choice of erwinia, xanthomonas, colletotrichum, pythium... and much more.

My experience is that some of those sicknesses are actually very slowly invading the plant, and suddently they will resume and attack. 

As an example, most of the plants that have got erwinia never recover on the long term, after some months or years, the erwinia will restart, treated again, and restart some years later. Keep records, and you will find out that it's true, even if the plants looks beautiful for a while after the "cure"...

Plant diseases are not very well understood by many people, but people have to realize that many are systemic, and the "symptoms" are only a small part of the affected area. Second, if you keep the plants dry, the phytophthora, pseudomonas and fusarium on the leaves will make only a few pitting here and there, to resume massively when the weather is better for those sicknesses.

Many chemicals are bacteriostatic and fungistatic, not bactericides and fungicides as well, so it delays the death of the plant, but does not prevent it completely. Sometimes it can delay that death for many months or years A batch of paph gardineri in the Netherlands has systemic bacteria, kept under control with antibiotics, but when moved to others places, the plants die after a couple of months...


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## paphjoint (Mar 23, 2008)

Same here Xavier 
You've been babbling about your "scientific" results
for ages -- 

Any publications ? 
Any publications which uses your work as a reference?
I don't even think that Joe knows who you are 

>>classified by hobbyists... 
Do you consider yourself as having more knowledge in the microbiological field than the "ordinary hobbyists"?-- any credentials perhaps? 
In which lab did you do your studies -- did you apply any statistical models on your research results? 

>My experience is that some of those sicknesses are actually >very slowly invading the plant, and suddently they will resume >and attack. 

Do you believe in spontaneous generations as well?

>A batch of paph gardineri in the Netherlands has systemic >bacteria, kept under control with antibiotics, but when moved >to others places, the plants die after a couple of months

and at last on a more funny-note- antibiotics ? as a Suppository?

Pandora


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## NYEric (Mar 23, 2008)

goldenrose said:


> Try lavender essential oil.



Thanx!  Wow venom above eh?


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## Roth (Mar 25, 2008)

pandora said:


> Same here Xavier
> >>classified by hobbyists...
> Do you consider yourself as having more knowledge in the microbiological field than the "ordinary hobbyists"?-- any credentials perhaps?
> In which lab did you do your studies -- did you apply any statistical models on your research results?



Yes Darling, I got many lab analysis made by the best pathology lab in Europe...

About the statistical models, for plant pathology identification there is no "statistical model", when the analysis is done by PCR, the results are completel foolproof for the identification.



> >My experience is that some of those sicknesses are actually >very slowly invading the plant, and suddently they will resume >and attack.
> 
> Do you believe in spontaneous generations as well?



In latency I believe, I think that's the best you should do !



> >A batch of paph gardineri in the Netherlands has systemic >bacteria, kept under control with antibiotics, but when moved >to others places, the plants die after a couple of months
> 
> and at last on a more funny-note- antibiotics ? as a Suppository?



As a mixture with the fertilizer...

As a suppository, may I suggest for you a coconut ? 

For the publications, do not worry, it'll be not too long before there are quite a few ( peer reviewed please, and by people with credentials !).


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