# Phragmipedium Sedenii



## Secundino (Jun 2, 2015)

I'm preparing a new entry in my blog with a short text about _Phragmipedium_ Sedenii (_Cypripedium_ Sedenii), a plant I got recently as a surprise birthday present. I've always known - don't ask me where I read it some 30 years ago! - that Sedenii is also a natural hybrid (x _sedenii_); now I've been researching and I just don't find a prove of this, though many pages repeat that it is a natural hybrid, there are no references to the original description (Reichenbach fil, Rolfe, Schlechter)! 
There is also little info about John Seden besides wiki and Hortus Veitchii; does anybody know where I can find a photograph and some further details about the 'father' of _Phrag_. Sedenii? 

Thanks!


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## Rob Zuiderwijk (Jun 3, 2015)

Secundino said:


> <snip>...I just don't find a prove of this, though many pages repeat that it is a natural hybrid...<snip>



Hi,

Hmmm. I've never heard about Phrag. Sedenii being a natural hybrid. You say that many pages repeat that it is a natural hybrid. Can you name one or more of these pages. 

On the other hand I've a feeling that I know what you're talking about. But before I start talking none sense, let see which pages you mean. There are lot of knowledgable people on this forum and I'm sure that together we can figure this out.

All the best,

Rob


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## Secundino (Jun 3, 2015)

Here:
http://www.orchidspecies.com/phragsedeni.htm 

though if I try to find the cited reviews - those which are digitalized - Orchid Review, Gardeners Chronicle, there is no evidence for this cross being a natural hybrid. 

and here (very strange):
http://collections.si.edu/search/results.htm?q=record_ID:nmnhbotany_2219986

But hold on, I'll find some more (I'm not going to show all those not scientific copy-and-paste-pages !) As I strongly feel this is an early copy-and-paste artifact! 

Tropicos, IPNI and rhs list Phragmipedium (Selenipedium, Cypripedium) x sedenii (written as natural hybrid) without mentioning location(s).


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## phraggy (Jun 4, 2015)

To me Sedeni has always been a hybrid between longifolium (pollen parent) and schlimii.

Ed


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## NYEric (Jun 4, 2015)

Yes Sedenii is a hybrid, but a natural one..?!


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## Rob Zuiderwijk (Jun 4, 2015)

Hi again,

I've been looking into some of the pages you mention, and my humble opinion is that you misinterpret the way the names are written.

If you check the names index IPNI and search for the genus _Cypripedium _or _Selenipedium _for example, you will see a list that contains a lot of names which have the '×' in them. If you do some researching on (some of) these names you’ll find that most of these names are synonyms for _Paphiopedilum _or _Phragmipedium _(man-made) hybrids. Reason for this is that in the old days it was customary that *all* hybrid names were written with the '×' in-between the (notho)genus name and the hybrid name, and new hybrids were often described in the same way new discovered species were.

Anyway, that is what I think is the explanation for your confusion.

A small note. As far as I understand the official way to write a natural hybrid name is with the '×' connected to the name, as in _Phragmipedium_ ×_roethianum_. When one wants to indicate a cross between two entities one uses the '×' as a separate character, like in _Phragmipedium longifolium_ × _Phragmipedium schlimii_.

All the best,

Rob


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## John M (Jun 4, 2015)

Hmmm - good info. Thanks Rob!


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## Secundino (Jun 5, 2015)

Thank you. Though I was not really confused by the name or how it is written - there are still lots of non-scientific pages (mostly german based) which mention _Phrag_. Sedenii as a natural hybrid and I wonder where this special part of information has its scientific (?) origin. Schlechter in 'Orchideen' (1914) just mentions it as normal hybrid - that could be a strong hint that a (false?) natural origin was postulated later.
Modern indexes should write according to actual taxonomic rules, regardless of later changes (_Cypripedium, Selenipedium, Uropedium_ until actual _Phragmipedium_); my 'confusion' is not taxonomic - I wonder who has stated for the first time this cross being a naturally occurring colombian hybrid. This paper is the one I'm searching for ... if it exists.
I doubt it because while searching I haven't found any modern reference of _Phrag. xsedenii_ in Colombia. But the absence of this information is no direct evidence of course.


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