# How about an IQ Test?



## Wogga (Jul 8, 2006)

I figured this would be a good way to make my 100th post, and also say thanks to the guys out there for making this place, and especially to stephen for telling me this wonderful site existed!!

Ok, here are two of the paphs i encountered on my trip to the smithsonian - both of which i found to be particularly interesting. (Tim, you're ineligible on this!) 
Feel free to ask questions, etc. Any answers can be Pm'ed to me, so i can let y'all know who gets them first. Let the games begin!
Paph #1



Paph # 1 - another bloom about opening




Paph # 2 - several different views


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## Jon in SW Ohio (Jul 8, 2006)

#1 (adductum x lowii)
#2 (spicerianum x hirsutissimum)

Jon
________
Mflb


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## Wogga (Jul 8, 2006)

no and no. you're getting somewhere with #2 though. good guess.


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## Rick (Jul 8, 2006)

#1 is lowii x randsii or supardii with randsii

#2 is spicerianum x lowii


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## Heather (Jul 8, 2006)

Boy, from that second photo I'd sure want to guess there was some adductum in there with regards to the shape, but I'm just not sure the color is at all right for any of their primary hybrids.


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## Heather (Jul 8, 2006)

Oooh, rick - that's a good first guess! Hrm...now I want one....lol!


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## Marco (Jul 8, 2006)

#1 paph landmark x lowii or supardii x lowii

#2 I go with Rick spicerianum x lowii


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## Wogga (Jul 9, 2006)

Rick - youre right on with the second one. It is indeed Lowii x Spicerianum, a.k.a. Paph De Witt Smith

As for the second one - it is not a primary hybrid, and no, supardii, lowii, and randsii are not in the mix.


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## Jon in SW Ohio (Jul 9, 2006)

#1 (Transvaal x sanderianum)
Jon
________
Volcano digital


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## Wogga (Jul 9, 2006)

I'll clarify - this is a really weird plant, considering what it is. When i found out what it was, i didnt believe it. Apparently there was some sort of weird transfer of the genes, and it picked up some odd petal structure elements that are not visibly indicitave of the parentage. PHEW! that took the breath outta me!

Short version - it's a FREAK! A highly unusual mutation.


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## Jon in SW Ohio (Jul 9, 2006)

Wogga said:


> Short version - it's a FREAK! A highly unusual mutation.



Or mislabelledoke: 

Jon
________
Fr-50


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## Rick (Jul 9, 2006)

Then its gotta have kolopakingii and philipinnense in it!!

I hate mind teasers:drool:


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## Wogga (Jul 9, 2006)

Jon in SW Ohio said:


> #1 (Transvaal x sanderianum)
> Jon



Nope, no transvaal in there. I'll throw another vague hint out there - the traits that one would expect to carry through strongly with this concentration of a certain parent - did not. instead, the subtle traits of another parent, not usually bred for, became quite a bit more pronounced.


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## Wogga (Jul 9, 2006)

Jon in SW Ohio said:


> Or mislabelledoke:
> 
> Jon



Nope - i took a good while investigating this guy with the owner, and he had done his homework on it as well. it has been confirmed.


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## Wogga (Jul 9, 2006)

Rick said:


> Then its gotta have kolopakingii and philipinnense in it!!
> 
> I hate mind teasers:drool:



nope, niether.

Think SUPER popular primary hybrid x SUPER popular species = Super weird manifestation of subtle traits of each. When you figure it out, you'll see the small hints in the flower. 

_its all coryo, too..._


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## Marco (Jul 9, 2006)

(haynaldianum x stonei) x lowii

or 

eva weigner x lowii


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## Rick (Jul 9, 2006)

St Swithin X haynaldianum


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## Wogga (Jul 9, 2006)

Think longer petals on parents (It's 100% coryo)


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## Marco (Jul 9, 2006)

Michael Koopowitz x stonei or mount toro x sanderianum


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## Rick (Jul 9, 2006)

Wogga said:
 

> Think longer petals on parents (It's 100% coryo)


So no pardopetalums at all?

St Swithin with an xtra dose of phili?


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## Wogga (Jul 9, 2006)

The sanderianum element in the primary hybrid is right.


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## Wogga (Jul 9, 2006)

Rick said:


> So no pardopetalums at all?
> 
> St Swithin with an xtra dose of phili?



You've got the right logic!!! its not swithin though, but close.


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## kentuckiense (Jul 9, 2006)

PEOY x haynald

or

PEOY x lowii


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## Marco (Jul 9, 2006)

addicted phillip x sanderianum


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## adiaphane (Jul 9, 2006)

sander's pride x kol?


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## Wogga (Jul 9, 2006)

Zach - there arent any non coryos. Everyone else - think along Rick's idea with the extra dose.


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## Marco (Jul 9, 2006)

sanders pride x stonei

I have a headache....I'm going to think accounting now and study....


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## kentuckiense (Jul 9, 2006)

Oops.. I was thinking Coryopetalum = Polyantha.


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## Rick (Jul 9, 2006)

I know very few hybrid names, but by process of elimination I'll try a phili /sand X phili


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## Wogga (Jul 9, 2006)

Not quite it. I've probably narrowed down the options enough that someone's going to get it by process of elimination soon. 

I love this! SO MUCH participation!


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## adiaphane (Jul 9, 2006)

sander's pride x stonei


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## adiaphane (Jul 9, 2006)

sand x supardii x supardii


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## Wogga (Jul 9, 2006)

Another hint - as far as my research has lead me to believe - this is an unnamed cross, and theres a lot of low altitiude borneo beauty in there!!

i went out to my patio for a minute and saw a few cops outside. i asked what happened, and they said there was a party... looks like the cops have _joined_ the party instead of breaking it up, haha!


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## Rick (Jul 9, 2006)

supardii, kolo, randsii have already been ruled out and sanderianum is in.

That leaves aductum,phili, roth, stonei as just about anything you could get.

gigantifolium and oowii are too weird


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## Wogga (Jul 9, 2006)

Rick said:


> ... and sanderianum is in.
> 
> That leaves aductum,phili, roth, stonei...



it IS one of those 4...


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## Marco (Jul 9, 2006)

i take it back (Sanderianum x adductum) x adductum adductum and sanderianum both have the yellow tint and stripes in the dorsal


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## Rick (Jul 9, 2006)

Wogga said:


> it IS one of those 4...



And aductum is only found in the philippines, and roth is found at higher elevation.


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## Wogga (Jul 9, 2006)

No phil in there...


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## Jon in SW Ohio (Jul 9, 2006)

Prince Edward of York x stonei?

I'm still holding out to see if it's mislabelled 

Jon
________
Macintosh Games


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## kentuckiense (Jul 9, 2006)

PEOY x phili

edit: Jon beat me


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## Marco (Jul 9, 2006)

Rick said:


> And aductum is only found in the philippines, and roth is found at higher elevation.



Speaking of adductum, Rick do you have one and if you do does it blook like clockwork along with your phil and lowii ?


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## Wogga (Jul 9, 2006)

kentuckiense said:


> PEOY x phili
> 
> edit: Jon beat me



OY! you guys are getting SOOOOO close! one step away...


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## adiaphane (Jul 9, 2006)

(sand x stonei var platytaenium) x (stonei x adductum)


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## Rick (Jul 9, 2006)

Marco said:


> Speaking of adductum, Rick do you have one and if you do does it blook like clockwork with your phils?



Afraid no to both questions, but I'm trying to resurect an old platyphylum.


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## Wogga (Jul 9, 2006)

adiaphane said:


> (sand x stonei var platytaenium) x (stonei x adductum)



remember - primary cross x species


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## kentuckiense (Jul 9, 2006)

Sander's Pride x phil?

That's probably already been said.


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## adiaphane (Jul 9, 2006)

I was reaching... shame on me!

In which case, I'm going to modify it to (sand x stonei) x stonei


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## Marco (Jul 9, 2006)

I want another crack oke: 

Michael koopowitz x sanderianum


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## kentuckiense (Jul 9, 2006)

PEOY x stonei?


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## kentuckiense (Jul 9, 2006)

PEOY x sanderianum.

That's it. I am so awesome.


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## Wogga (Jul 9, 2006)

Marco said:


> I want another crack oke:
> 
> Michael koopowitz x sanderianum



GOD you're so close, but remember - there's no phillipinense in the mix.


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## Marco (Jul 9, 2006)

PEOY x sanderianum


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## silence882 (Jul 9, 2006)

My turn!

PEoY x stonei?

--Stephen


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## Wogga (Jul 9, 2006)

kentuckiense said:


> PEOY x sanderianum.
> 
> That's it. I am so awesome.



i TOLD you it was a freak!!! you got it, zach. 

let the 'what the f__k?!?' - ing ensue!


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## kentuckiense (Jul 9, 2006)

I am so good I want to date myself.


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## Rick (Jul 9, 2006)

I thought MK was a Roth/sand cross?


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## Marco (Jul 9, 2006)

Wogga said:


> i TOLD you it was a freak!!! you got it, zach.
> 
> let the 'what the f__k?!?' - ing ensue!



POEY x Sanderianum???  It has red petal tips!


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## adiaphane (Jul 9, 2006)

This was so much fun! More!


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## Wogga (Jul 9, 2006)

Sorry about the time warp - i didnt see zach's post until i had responded to other one's - marco - you hit the nail on the head too.

MK is sand. x philli.


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## Wogga (Jul 9, 2006)

Adiaphane - as soon as i find some more freakishly abnormal plants that i can confirm are actually the abomination of parents that should never make a baby that looks that way, ill photograph them, and run IQ's on them. 

It's just not as much fun if it's predictable, is it?


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## Marco (Jul 9, 2006)

Wogga said:


> MK is sand. x philli.




oh duh. there goes the red petal tips.


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## Jon in SW Ohio (Jul 9, 2006)

I was right! 

Mislabelled:evil: 

Jon
________
MAZDA F3A TRANSMISSION SPECIFICATIONS


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## adiaphane (Jul 9, 2006)

Jon in SW Ohio said:


> I was right!
> 
> Mislabelled:evil:
> 
> Jon


 I second Jon.


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## Wogga (Jul 9, 2006)

haha! thats what i thought too - im not going with my logic - this was confirmed for me by the director of the smithsonian orchid collection. he knows a little more than me, lol.


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## Rick (Jul 9, 2006)

Wogga said:


> MK is sand. x philli.



See, I don't know my hybrids. The only paph hybrid I own is a MK X roth.

Its about the slowest growing plant on the face of the earth.


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## adiaphane (Jul 9, 2006)

Tell him to check again! (I'm not a sore loser.)


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## Jon in SW Ohio (Jul 9, 2006)

Paph. Shin-Yi Prince (PEOY x sanderianum) for comparison:

http://www.parksideorchids.com/images/Paphs/Paph Shin-Yi Prince.JPG

So far from the clones I've seen, this is a pretty uniform hybrid. Staminode, pouch, and dorsal striping especially.

Jon
________
MAGIC FLIGHT LAUNCH BOX


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## Wogga (Jul 9, 2006)

look closely - you'll see subtle elements of the parents.


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## kentuckiense (Jul 9, 2006)

Wogga said:


> look closely - you'll see subtle elements of the parents.


Yeah, I think we do see the subtle elements of roth in there, I don't think that's the issue.

I know that hybrids are variable and all, but I'd have to imagine that most PEoYs backcrossed onto sanderianum have much, much longer petals. That second set of genetic recombination could have randomly selected a lot more roth, but I'd imagine the chance of that happening is infinitely small.

Still a mighty fun game, though! Next time I get a hybrid, I'm going to do this.


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## Marco (Jul 9, 2006)

It was really fun. Thanks Colin.


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## kentuckiense (Jul 9, 2006)

Marco said:


> It was really fun. Thanks Colin.



I second that, definitely! I love this stuff.


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## Wogga (Jul 9, 2006)

Jon in SW Ohio said:


> Paph. Shin-Yi Prince (PEOY x sanderianum) for comparison:
> 
> http://www.parksideorchids.com/images/Paphs/Paph Shin-Yi Prince.JPG
> 
> ...



precisely why i called it a freak.

i make no attempt to indicate that this is a plant indicative of what it _should_ look like. look closely though, as i said - the elements that are bred for - clean spiraling of the petals, as well as length - poorly represented. subtle elements - veining of the slipper, and striation pattern of the dorsal - strongly represented.

Most likely - this is a poor specimen of the desired qualities of this hybrid (thank you for giving me the name for the common hybrid, by the way - i was kicking myself for not being able to find it).


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## Wogga (Jul 9, 2006)

kentuckiense said:


> Yeah, I think we do see the subtle elements of roth in there, I don't think that's the issue.
> 
> I know that hybrids are variable and all, but I'd have to imagine that most PEoYs backcrossed onto sanderianum have much, much longer petals. *That second set of genetic recombination could have randomly selected a lot more roth, but I'd imagine the chance of that happening is infinitely small.*
> 
> Still a mighty fun game, though! Next time a get a hybrid, I'm going to do this.



As far as i can reason, its congruent to recessive genetics in humans. Very unlikely indeed, but very cool, nonetheless, despite any lack of show winning quality.
And as far as the cause of such a thing happening - Someone's got their poor quality sanderianum that they managed to produce a PEOY with, using a strong quality roth, then backcrossing onto the same plant. I could see such a strange (yet feasible) scenario, producing such a plant that is strong in roth, poor in sand. Thats the most likely possibility i can think of.

Regardless of controversy, I'm glad people enjoyed this one.


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## Jon in SW Ohio (Jul 9, 2006)

Definitely very fun!!

What'd we get, like 8 pages in 2 hours?

Jon
________
Ford motor company history


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## kentuckiense (Jul 9, 2006)

Wogga said:


> As far as i can reason, its congruent to recessive genetics in humans. Very unlikely indeed, but very cool, nonetheless, despite any lack of show winning quality.
> 
> Regardless of controversy, I'm glad people enjoyed this one.


Yeah, not trying to stir up controversy. Definitely fun!


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## Wogga (Jul 9, 2006)

Jon in SW Ohio said:


> Definitely very fun!!
> 
> What'd we get, like 8 pages in 2 hours?
> 
> Jon



YUP!! 8 pages... from 1130-130 (we really are crazy orchid people, arent we? other people are out partying - we're playing orchid games!  i wouldnt trade it for the world!)

And zach - i didnt mean you. i meant i didnt mean to create controversy with the thread, just thought it would be fun for there to be a big m knight shamyalan-esque twist!


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## bench72 (Jul 9, 2006)

well, great, fine... now i guess I can join in 

I still think there it's PEOY x phili oke:



(and I hate having to work on a sunday and miss all the fun)


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## Greenpaph (Jul 9, 2006)

Colin,

Excellent thread! I enjoyed it!

Greenpaph


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## Heather (Jul 9, 2006)

Damn... why did I go to bed last night? 

That's one weird plant...that's all I say. 

On the topic of fun posts - this type is excellent - good for getting us thinking, and fun at the same time. I think we should do more of this AND I think keeping the answers/guesses public is more fun than private messaging, and that's my official administrative comment of the day.


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## SlipperFan (Jul 9, 2006)

Guess I left the forum too early last evening...


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## Marco (Jul 9, 2006)

Heather you were dreaming about Catts oke:


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## Heather (Jul 9, 2006)

Marco said:


> Heather you were dreaming about Catts oke:



Most absolutely not...


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## Wogga (Jul 9, 2006)

Na-nanny-boo-boo, you like caattss!!


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## Heather (Jul 9, 2006)

Wogga said:


> Na-nanny-boo-boo, you like caattss!!




Oohhh...noooo I don't!!!

If you only knew what I *was* dreaming about....:rollhappy:


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## PHRAG (Jul 9, 2006)

Heather said:


> Oohhh...noooo I don't!!!
> 
> If you only knew what I *was* dreaming about....:rollhappy:


 
Johnny Depp and Orlando Bloom covered in baby oil and wrestling in a field of miltonias?


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## Heather (Jul 9, 2006)

PHRAG said:


> Johnny Depp and Orlando Bloom covered in baby oil and wrestling in a field of miltonias?



You are most amusing....


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## PHRAG (Jul 9, 2006)

Heather said:


> You are most amusing....


 
My wife doesn't seem to think so.


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## Marco (Jul 9, 2006)

This is what Heather was dreaming about.







John was right on point!

:rollhappy:


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## PHRAG (Jul 9, 2006)

Marco, can you change that from "Heather, run away..." to "John, run away..." and email it to me.


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## Heather (Jul 9, 2006)

Oh Jesus Christ Marco!!! ...now I've completely lost any remote whiff of composure I still had....what is the matter with you people??? Damn photoshop! I'm going to have to go after those f'ing Adobe people....


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## Marco (Jul 9, 2006)

John - Sent

Heather - You crack me up. I'm dying here :rollhappy:

Banana!


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## Wogga (Jul 9, 2006)

Marco said:


> John - Sent
> 
> Heather - You crack me up. I'm dying here :rollhappy:
> 
> Banana!



Oh man, you guys are too much!! i love this place!


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## Jmoney (Jul 11, 2006)

I'm not an authority but I think the chances of that first one being mislabelled are much greater than it being some bizarre PEOY x sandy. that's just my opinion, there's no way you can get those thick pink petal tips with these two species. those "teardrop" shaped dorsals also go for lowii I think.

I don't know who the director of the smithsonian is, or his/her level of expertise in slippers, but remember, fully-accredited AOS judges were awarding Grandes as caudatums for years.


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## kentuckiense (Jul 11, 2006)

The staminode bugs me. I don't really know what I'm talking about, but that staminode just screams "cochlo influence!!" to me. Probably a bit too light colored for that, though.


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## Heather (Jul 11, 2006)

Jmoney said:


> I'm not an authority but I think the chances of that first one being mislabelled are much greater than it being some bizarre PEOY x sandy. that's just my opinion, there's no way you can get those thick pink petal tips with these two species. those "teardrop" shaped dorsals also go for lowii I think.



I wholeheartedly agree. 
It looks nothing to me like what you say it should be, sorry, JMHO. 
As someone else said, if that was a PEOY x sand, I'd trash it. Not kidding.


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## gary (Jul 11, 2006)

Jmoney said:


> I'm not an authority but I think the chances of that first one being mislabelled are much greater than it being some bizarre PEOY x sandy. that's just my opinion,


I agree that mislabelling is a stong possibility. Even the best of breeders can have errors get away from them, a famous example is PEOY sold as sanderianum. I recently flowered some plants sold to me as Kee Chin Lim, they came out looking like Stella Lim. I don't think that malipoense hybrids flower pink, the green seems to be dominant. TAgs have been known to get mixed up. :wink: 

I don't know enough aboiut the genetics of the parents (alledged parents?  ) But if it looks like a duck... IMHO

gary


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## Jmoney (Jul 11, 2006)

even worse is when it is sometimes deliberate. as far as I know those bogus flasks from Taiwan had NO sanderianum in them and refunds were not given. I can't say I'm all that surprised, the commitment to customer service is overall not nearly as strong there as in the US.


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## Heather (Jul 15, 2006)

Marco said:


> This is what Heather was dreaming about.
> John was right on point!



Hey Marco! Our favorite film is on! :evil:


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## Marco (Jul 15, 2006)

Heather said:


> Hey Marco! Our favorite film is on! :evil:




What film??


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## Heather (Jul 15, 2006)

haha, read back a page or two...


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## Marco (Jul 15, 2006)

Johnny Depp and Orlando Bloom wrestling in oil??? you dream came true????oke: :rollhappy:


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## Heather (Jul 15, 2006)

who woulda thunk it?


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## Marco (Jul 15, 2006)

Sweet!!!!!!Now I want to see Jessica Alba and Brooke Burke wrestling in oil....If either of them asked me to run away to Borneo. I'm on the plane and sending sanderianums out.


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## Jmoney (Jul 16, 2006)

Jessica Alba was filming some movie at my very own Bellevue Hospital not that long ago. of course nobody bothered to tell me when she was actually here, not that security would let some idiot resident near the set anyway.


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## Jon in SW Ohio (Jul 16, 2006)

Marco said:


> Sweet!!!!!!Now I want to see Jessica Alba and Brooke Burke wrestling in oil....









Jon
________
Washington marijuana dispensaries


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## adiaphane (Jul 16, 2006)

haha ha... Jon, you are too funny!


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## Heather (Jul 16, 2006)

Hahaha....
you know I had a really hard time finding where this thread was...this was not the location I had remembered. Boy are we good at derailing. 

I think we need another IQ too...


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