# Saint Swithin progression



## tnyr5 (Oct 19, 2015)

It's about bloody time lol. 
Threw two false sheaths before finally getting to the real thing. 
I'll update as the spike moves along.


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## NYEric (Oct 19, 2015)

Cool, keep us posted.


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## troy (Oct 19, 2015)

Congrats on the blooming, may I ask what your temps are?


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## Linus_Cello (Oct 19, 2015)

First bloom? How many growths? I have one with 3 large growths and several small growths; still no blooms yet (grr).


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## tnyr5 (Oct 19, 2015)

My temps are about 75 during the day and 60 at night; I'm in Winter mode. 

It is indeed a first bloom seedling. Parents are Roth 'New Horizon FCC/AOS' x philippinense 'Hilo Twister'. Not getting my hopes too high, as most NH progeny I've seen have been underwhelming. 
This plant has one (obviously) mature growth, one 3/4 mature growth, one 1/2 mature growth, and two starts. LS is about 27" on the blooming growth, the next one looks like it will be bigger.

Question for you guys: Do you think keeping it in the shade to help elongate the spike will affect the bloom color at this point?


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## orchidman77 (Oct 19, 2015)

Awesome!! Can't wait to see the updates. 

David


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## bigleaf (Oct 19, 2015)

How exciting. Can't wait to see flowers


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## phraggy (Oct 19, 2015)

One of my favourites and this one looks excellent.

Ed


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## 17andgrowing (Oct 19, 2015)

Looking good.


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## Justin (Oct 19, 2015)

tnyr5 said:


> My temps are about 75 during the day and 60 at night; I'm in Winter mode.
> 
> It is indeed a first bloom seedling. Parents are Roth 'New Horizon FCC/AOS' x philippinense 'Hilo Twister'. Not getting my hopes too high, as most NH progeny I've seen have been underwhelming.
> This plant has one (obviously) mature growth, one 3/4 mature growth, one 1/2 mature growth, and two starts. LS is about 27" on the blooming growth, the next one looks like it will be bigger.
> ...



not sure but i can't wait to see the blooms. the buds look like they will have nice color.


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## Happypaphy7 (Oct 19, 2015)

Can't help you there with the question, but what a lovely sight indeed! 
Looking forward to some nice flowers. 
Fingers crossed.


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## tnyr5 (Oct 20, 2015)

I've actually got a little flush of blooms on the way. _Fowliei, sugiyamanum, venustum, tranlienianum_, triple bella, & mystic isle are all in spike as well.


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## gego (Oct 20, 2015)

I have one in sheath too. Seems like the drop in temp initiated the flower.

Congrats.


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## SlipperKing (Oct 21, 2015)

The only thing I have found that influences the color is Epson's salts. The higher the concentration the better the color within limits of course. It was most noticable in the Phrags, esp the green ones. At one heeping tablespoon per 50 gals of rain water a typical green Praying Mantis popped with maroons but I also got allot of distorted flowers in the Phrags only, mainly longifolium hybrids. I never saw any bad effects in the Paphs.


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## Happypaphy7 (Oct 21, 2015)

I have never heard of that. 
Magnesium and sulfur both are important in the formation of chlorophyll along other functions in the plants, and your observation of green flowers could therefore has something to do with it. 

Are you sure it wasn't coincidental with temperature drop or other changes??


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## SlipperKing (Oct 21, 2015)

Of course temperature plays a role but you can influence color up and down with the Epson's


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## Happypaphy7 (Oct 21, 2015)

Is there a study regarding that because this is very new to me?


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## SlipperKing (Oct 21, 2015)

Bob(?) Gordon, a big Phal grower from Calif in his day mention Epson's in the fall for better blooms and stronger colors.That was from the 80's and/or 90's.

He had a book in print and I believe he mentions Epsons there, as well as, on speaking tours. I don't remember him ever saying anything about a study done just something he stumble across.


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## tnyr5 (Oct 21, 2015)

Interesting. I do use a lot of MgSO4 in my fert regimen, and I do typically get above-average color, so my anecdotal evidence does support the hypothesis.


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## gego (Oct 21, 2015)

I use 25 ppm of Epson as a supplement more so on my S/H plants. My Paph SW is in sheath again (second flower) will compare the flowers if I get lucky.


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## Happypaphy7 (Oct 22, 2015)

I doubt Epsom Salt affects the flower color much, if at all, because as far as I understand, flower color especially anything with blue, magenta, red hues is either not affected by anything (usually the intense dark and solid colors) or it is affected by sugar production and allocation within the plant which is controlled by light level and temperature. 
I could be wrong, but I'm still waiting to hear from others to learn about it. 
To me, this seem like one of those many things that float around among orchid growers. 

BTW, there is a phal lady in the local society here, and she adds Epsom salt in the late summer or fall. She "believes" that Epsom salt is what makes phals spike, which is obviously not true as most phals (she grows the common hobby hybrid type) spike in response to the lower temperature that comes with the season of late summer or fall.

I'm sure adding Epsom salt helps with plant growth/development of course.


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## tnyr5 (Oct 24, 2015)

Looks like there will be four.


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## Justin (Oct 24, 2015)

exciting. I don't think I've seen pictures of anything with the roth 'New Horizon' parent. I have a sib cross growing out from flask. I will have to keep an eye out for pics.


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## tnyr5 (Oct 24, 2015)

I've seen 3 Saint Swithins from the NH x HT grex. All 3 sucked.


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## Justin (Oct 24, 2015)

that's too bad. i haven't seen any in person myself, but this one pictured looks nice...

http://www.orchids.com/Paph-St-Swit...CCAOS-x-philippinense-Hilo-Twister-P4245.aspx


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## tnyr5 (Oct 24, 2015)

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=7929a5ed2c05f9151060adbe634081ee&oe=56BFA570 Here's a link to one from this bloodline on the paphs of distinction fb page. The one in your picture is St Swithin 'Super Saint', an 89 point AM from South Africa. It's one of my favorite St Swithins, along with 'Neptune' FCC/AOS


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## Justin (Oct 26, 2015)

what is the parentage on Super Saint?

yeah the one you linked to is definitely kind of meh.


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## tnyr5 (Oct 26, 2015)

I don't know. It was awarded several years ago. I wish all the judging centers would keep track of the clonal names of the parents.


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## tnyr5 (Oct 29, 2015)

OMG hurryuphurryuphurryuphurryup!!!!!


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## SlipperKing (Oct 29, 2015)

Impressive Tony. How many buds?


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## Justin (Oct 29, 2015)

gorgeous plant. hope the flowers are good!


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## emydura (Oct 29, 2015)

That is a beautiful looking plant.


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## tnyr5 (Oct 29, 2015)

SlipperKing said:


> Impressive Tony. How many buds?



There are 4. Respectable for a first bloom.


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## tnyr5 (Nov 2, 2015)

Fat bud. Always a good sign.


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## tnyr5 (Nov 5, 2015)

Almost time. 16" from pot rim to first bud. I hope my stake is big enough. Looks like it will be big, if nothing else.


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## NYEric (Nov 6, 2015)

Doesn't waiting suck!!??!!


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## tnyr5 (Nov 6, 2015)

Oh, it's opening as we speak, I'm just not posting a pic until next week. ;-) It looks like it's going to be very "roth-y".


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## Ozpaph (Nov 6, 2015)

waiting...........


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## Justin (Nov 7, 2015)

Saint Swithin buds are my favorite...love the yellow and maroon...


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## Happypaphy7 (Nov 7, 2015)

Real close now!!!


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## tnyr5 (Nov 7, 2015)

It's about 1/3 open & has good potential, but we all know that could contort into something ugly, so I'll post the bloom progression after it opens. The dorsal will be exceptional if it stays flat. Love the pepper smell.


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## NYEric (Nov 7, 2015)

Wow! What a tease!


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## tnyr5 (Nov 9, 2015)

Soon...


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## troy (Nov 9, 2015)

Pepper smell?


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## tnyr5 (Nov 9, 2015)

Yep. I like it. Better than urine & feet lol.


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## troy (Nov 9, 2015)

It's fragrant? Roths can be I heard, but never have heard of a S.S. fragrant, are you sure you didn't get rowdy & peppersprayed or maced last night, pass out & forget I've heard the nightlife in pa. Can get crazy bar hopping n stuff lol..


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## tnyr5 (Nov 9, 2015)

The roth was the pod parent. I would guess that helps.


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## troy (Nov 9, 2015)

Cool!!, you know what roth it is? J.k. the last statement


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## tnyr5 (Nov 10, 2015)

There ya go. Still twisting & twirling so NS is unstable. Dorsal 4.9cm, petal width at widest point is just barely 1.3cm, petal length 16cm, synsepal 4.2cm. Not particularly big by St Swithin standards, but the color is nice & the flower is chunky.


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## phraggy (Nov 10, 2015)

Turned out beautifully, congrats, I love SS.

Ed


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## Justin (Nov 10, 2015)

looks like a winner.


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## SlipperKing (Nov 10, 2015)

Someone will have to retract their comment about these particular parents not making beautiful offspring! Look'in good so far!


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## tnyr5 (Nov 10, 2015)

Oh, I'm sure it'll find some way to piss me off lol.


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## NYEric (Nov 10, 2015)

Send it to NYC for disciplining!!


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## tnyr5 (Nov 10, 2015)

You're too soft; it's a willful plant.


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## cattmad (Nov 10, 2015)

Dorsal size is disappointing, I like the form and Colour though


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## Camellkc (Nov 10, 2015)

Not bad overall.


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## SlipperFan (Nov 10, 2015)

Very good shape and contrast. All around, a nice flower.


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## tnyr5 (Nov 10, 2015)

cattmad said:


> Dorsal size is disappointing, I like the form and Colour though



Just curious, and I mean no offense: What would you consider "not disappointing?"


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## cattmad (Nov 10, 2015)

For an SS with modern roth breeding I would expect a 5.5 or 6cm dorsal, I have been dissapointed with new SS I have been flowering as well

You rarely see a JB OR WBW with a ds under 5.5


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## cattmad (Nov 10, 2015)

Overall it is very nice, but really the DS needs to be bigger given the roth parent has a 6.8 DS


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## orchidman77 (Nov 11, 2015)

so beautiful, no matter the dimensions! Enjoy (we will to!) -

David


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## tnyr5 (Nov 11, 2015)

cattmad said:


> For an SS with modern roth breeding I would expect a 5.5 or 6cm dorsal, I have been dissapointed with new SS I have been flowering as well
> 
> You rarely see a JB OR WBW with a ds under 5.5



Sounds like we have similar standards of excellence. I was hoping for a dorsal in the 5.5cm range, but, I'm content to wait for the next bloom to see that kind of size. My only disagreement is that I think it's unfair to judge Saint Swithin by the standards of the superior cross that is roth x anitum. Apples to oranges, and all that.


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## cattmad (Nov 11, 2015)

I would re flower it, you may find the DS increases to around 5.4 or 5.5 on a bigger plant


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## Ozpaph (Nov 11, 2015)

Great colour and stance.
I'd consider cutting the spike early. You can see its worth keeping for a second blooming on a bigger plant.


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## Justin (Nov 11, 2015)

phil is a great hybridizer for vigor but poor parent for quality....only a few exceptions in my mind such as SS and some MK. Many SS turn out wonky but they have their own charm so it is a favorite of mine.

When I have room to grow them out I would love to make SS with phil 'Alford' and a modern roth (not that it hasn'r been done before but could be awesome with a great roth). Alford doesn't have huge flowers but the segments are very broad and the color is great. 

This one looks like a keeper for form and color alone.


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## tnyr5 (Nov 11, 2015)

Oh, I'm definitely keeping it lol. The NS seems like it's settling around 20cm h x 18cm v 
I have people who want to see it, so I can't be cutting spikes just yet. As you can see, it's a big plant with a huge root system, so it won't make much difference. 
On the other hand, I do have some Chiu Hua Dancer pollen that I saved ...:evil:


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