# definitely not sangii



## Chicago Chad (Jan 29, 2018)

So this one came as sangii but we can see it is not


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## JRO (Jan 29, 2018)

It looks like P. lunatum


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## Daniel Herrera (Jan 29, 2018)

JRO said:


> It looks like P. lunatum



Definitely P. lunatum oke:


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## StreetVariety (Jan 29, 2018)

"came as sangii" oke:


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## Spaph (Jan 29, 2018)

Very sad to see non seed grown plants of new species


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## Chicago Chad (Jan 29, 2018)

Like i said, came as sangii. I can remove it which I have. I guess the post can be interpreted as promoting the concerns of Spaph but the plants all come from somewhere and this was indeed with a dozen sangii. It was also purchased through legit channels and I don't mean some rando on ebay sending padded envelopes around customs. The plant has been set successfully with a seed pod. After it is artificially propagated I am sure more will be more open to the idea of it. I would have preferred a sangii in flower.


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## Spaph (Jan 29, 2018)

Chicago Chad said:


> Like i said, came as sangii. I can remove it which I have. I guess the post can be interpreted as promoting the concerns of Spaph but the plants all come from somewhere and this was indeed with a dozen sangii. It was also purchased through legit channels and I don't mean some rando on ebay sending padded envelopes around customs. The plant has been set successfully with a seed pod. After it is artificially propagated I am sure more will be more open to the idea of it. I would have preferred a sangii in flower.



Great to hear you have a successful seed pod. Thanks for taking a chance on starting a conversation about the issues out there...


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## Ozpaph (Jan 30, 2018)

i cant see a photo


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## StreetVariety (Jan 31, 2018)

Look, I understand the fact that whether if CITES is actually effective at what it is supposed to do is questionable and debatable. I'm also happy that he got a seed pod out of it. However, what I take issue is this ridiculous farce. 

Chicago Chad is obviously a notorious plant smuggler by the eyes of law by judging his previous posts. From what I can gather, it seems like that he uses this forum to advertise his plants on "low down". Could he just be honest and put up a sales thread instead? Am I supposed to believe that a brand new species from different island with different leaf pattern somehow got mixed up with sangii shipment? Please.


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## MorandiWine (Jan 31, 2018)

WOW! Those are some rather harsh accusations there.


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## orchid527 (Jan 31, 2018)

Streetvariety, you are just plain wrong. I've had dealings with Chicago Chad regarding hangianum and hangianum hybrids and I know for a fact that he was very concerned about all associated legal documents. Mike


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## John M (Jan 31, 2018)

Where's the photo?


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## StreetVariety (Jan 31, 2018)

orchid527 said:


> Streetvariety, you are just plain wrong. I've had dealings with Chicago Chad regarding hangianum and hangianum hybrids and I know for a fact that he was very concerned about all associated legal documents. Mike



Words on documents don't mean anything. Nobody involved in the progress barring the people who filled out the documents is going to notice the fact that there's a lunatum among sangiis.


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## Ozpaph (Feb 1, 2018)

John M said:


> Where's the photo?



that's what I said!


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## NYEric (Feb 1, 2018)

I also did not see any photo.

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## NYEric (Feb 1, 2018)

NYEric said:


> I also did not see any photo.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


BTW, Chicago Chad is about beyond reproach in terms of credibility. 

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## Tom-DE (Feb 1, 2018)

StreetVariety said:


> Look, I understand the fact that whether if CITES is actually effective at what it is supposed to do is questionable and debatable. I'm also happy that he got a seed pod out of it. However, what I take issue is this ridiculous farce.
> 
> Chicago Chad is obviously a notorious plant smuggler by the eyes of law by judging his previous posts. From what I can gather, it seems like that he uses this forum to advertise his plants on "low down". Could he just be honest and put up a sales thread instead? Am I supposed to believe that a brand new species from different island with different leaf pattern somehow got mixed up with sangii shipment? Please.



Serious accusation indeed! I wonder what Chad might say about this. :evil:


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## JRO (Feb 2, 2018)

I agree with Spaph. It is sad that newly discovered species are so easily smuggled across borders. A blooming P. lunatum could not have found its way into middle America without someone being complicit. We don't know who that person was, but I would suspect that the vendor Chad acquired the plants from knew that they were wild collected plants whether they were P. sangii or not.


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## Chicago Chad (Feb 2, 2018)

I guess I expected a bunch of **** and I got it. Probably a lot more if I left the photo up. Out of respect for the group and the overall feeling I immediately received, I decided to remove it. As I stated, I was not trying to promote someone to buy plants without proper documentation. After collecting plants for a few years I realize the importance of this regardless of my personal feelings on the matter. 

Since I do choose to sell plants from time to time, I make sure I keep all receipts and necessary paperwork that may be needed to trace some lineage if it were to be disputed.


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## Chicago Chad (Feb 2, 2018)

Just to keep you in the loop with the 'came with some sangii' comment, they indeed did. I have been ordering in wholesale amounts for a few years now. Same with collections of plants as people leave the hobby or business all together. I have many, many plants that have come in as 'type' this and 'type' that. I doubt some of them are accurate as the leaf tessellation, color and shape will often vary. Actually I don't label anything at all until it blooms unless it was a select cultivar with some provenance. My thoughts are few of these plants are artificially propagated based on the growth habits, rhizome elongation, ect. I have not asked vendors if they are.


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## Chicago Chad (Feb 2, 2018)

My due diligence comes in the names, the payment and the paperwork. Every single one of my plants has cleared customs. As a result from trying to acquire as many species variations as I can, from as many vendors as possible, I can guarantee that things get mixed up, mixed in and lied about. Where that occurs and how that transpires into the US or to me is beyond my understanding. Why someone would want to sell a plant that presumably retains a higher price value for one much less, is more of the same. 

This plant actually flowered quite a while ago, before the name was established. At that time I had nothing to compare it to other than similar leaf patterns like tonsum, javanicum and sangii. So the pod was set. The fruit is ripe. The damage is done. My apologies for upsetting anyone. And thank you to those that have vouched for me and our experiences in working together.


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## NYEric (Feb 2, 2018)

Dude, no need to explain, if you got something questionable, swallow it. 

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## Tom-DE (Feb 3, 2018)

I would not accuse Chad/anyone "notorious plant smuggler" so quickly like that youngster(StreetVariety)....but I must say, people have to be very careful when import wild collected plants from overseas, especially for Paphs. It is not "funny" if you get caught....Sometimes it is better to keep it quiet even if you are innocent.


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