# Orchiata and Phrags.



## abax (Mar 1, 2014)

Is anyone growing Phrags. in straight Orchiata? If so, what size Orchiata?
Suggestions as to what potting material might be beneficial to add to
Orchiata aside from moss? How 'bout hydroton?


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## NYEric (Mar 1, 2014)

If sitting them in water i would put straight hydroton in the bottom that's in the water. You can mix the media above that. I use Power size 3/8 - 1/2". Mostly i keep moss on the top only, live moss is better.


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## RNCollins (Mar 1, 2014)

*Orchiata*

I'm interested in the responses to this question too. I have some Orchiata and was wondering the same thing.


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## MaryPientka (Mar 1, 2014)

NYEric, I saw the live moss on some of your photos in another thread. I would like to try this, too. I wonder how you prepare the moss. What do you recommend?


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## jeremyinsf (Mar 1, 2014)

I use a mix of the Classic and Power, along with some lava rock. I'm going to try Eric's LECA idea on the next one I pot.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Mar 1, 2014)

I grow them in orchiata mixed with sponge rock and NZ sphagnum. Since I tend not to repot phrags for too many years, the sponge rock is necessary to keep some air in the mix.


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## mormodes (Mar 1, 2014)

I've grown phrags in a combination of semi hydroponics and straight orchiata (fine) for 3-4 years. Semi-hydroponics is where the pot or container doesn't have drainage holes in the bottom of the pot but rather they are some distance up the side, allowing a reservoir of water to stand in the pot. Since orchiata doesn't break down quickly I used this method to good success until the past two years when I have inadvertently tested the method. My life went in the toilet and I haven't repotted for 2 years, nor have I watered consistently. The bark is holding up well, the plant aren't dead as I'd have expected and have even grown. Roots are visible through the clear pot. Only the Sorceror's Apprentice has bloomed consistently for me during this time span, which I think speaks to the hybrid's tolerance. In the next few weeks I'll start repotting and see what hell I've unleashed on my plants. I'd have expected full-on total death of my collection due to a build up of salts from neglect, stagnation, & putrifaction but no. Talk about pushing the envelope, *G*.

Oh, the Barbara LeAnn has bloomed for me during this abusive period too. I'm not encouraging anyone to neglect their collection, but just saying orchiata is harder & more durable than you may think it is.


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## NYEric (Mar 2, 2014)

MaryPientka said:


> NYEric, I saw the live moss on some of your photos in another thread. I would like to try this, too. I wonder how you prepare the moss. What do you recommend?


Get live moss, clean preferably , from eBay, mix with or top media with moss, grow orchids.


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## abax (Mar 2, 2014)

Eric, I just looked over the offerings of live moss on ebay. Does it matter
what type of moss? How exactly do you determine if the moss is "clean"?
I wonder if I collected my own moss, might a spraying with Orthene be
advisable?


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## cnycharles (Mar 2, 2014)

Forest critters will enter your growing area if you proceed without caution


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## Erythrone (Mar 2, 2014)

cnycharles said:


> Forest critters will enter your growing area if you proceed without caution
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Yes, pay attention to moose and dear. They will browse on you orchids. oke:

Just kidding of course.


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## cnycharles (Mar 2, 2014)

No joke about the deer though here in nj; a pack of 21 wandered in front of my car in my way home from work few nights ago  . They are taking advantage of the hard, deeper snow to chew in trees and shrubs higher than ever before, eating everything in sight. At work if you leave hoop house doors open they will walk inside and chew lots of things up

I grabbed some nice rotted log moss a few years ago and all sorts of nasty bugs and some disease I think spread through my plants. If you can culture some or buy clean from someone else would be of great benefit


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## NYEric (Mar 2, 2014)

On eBay it should say its clean. The type is not super important, but if you can get live sphagnum that is the best.


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## abax (Mar 3, 2014)

Thank you, Eric and all. We have quite a few deer around the nursery,
but they'd have one hell-of-a-time getting through the louvers.

CNYcharles, I was afraid of that!


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## chrismende (Mar 3, 2014)

I grow Phrags in a combination of Orchiata and GrowStone which is expanded recycled glass from a Colorado landfill. I've used this combination for over two years now and as long as you rinse the GrowStone once to reduce the moderate level of alkalinity the plants seem very happy. I like GrowStone much better than Perlite, since it provides aeration without the compaction issues of the Perlite.
I have a mix of two or three sizes of Orchiata according to the root size I'm dealing with. Seedlings go into the fine size with small size GrowStone.
This mix works very well in an ebb and flood tray system for all my Kovachii hybrids, P. kovachii seedlings, and besseaes and schlimiis. The other Phrags grow on the regular bench in the same mix or even hanging up higher for more light. All the same mix.


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## chrismende (Mar 3, 2014)

Incidentally, I try to keep moss at a minimum, since it eats lots of nutrients and reduces surface aeration...


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## Erythrone (Mar 3, 2014)

cnycharles said:


> No joke about the deer though here in nj; a pack of 21 wandered in front of my car in my way home from work few nights ago  . They are taking advantage of the hard, deeper snow to chew in trees and shrubs higher than ever before, eating everything in sight. At work if you leave hoop house doors open they will walk inside and chew lots of things up



Sorry to read this. Do you have problems with Turkeys too? They are new here (thanks to global warming...). They like flower buds of many shrubs... They are able to dig in the hard frozen snow cover. They seem to eat the same plants as ruffed grouse but are much much destructive.


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## cnycharles (Mar 3, 2014)

In central ny where I grew up they were quite scarce until re-introduced; now there are many. When I hunt deer at uncles they practically trip over me when I'm sitting in one spot. They do scratch the ground pretty thoroughly. 

In nj I saw one turkey in west orange within a block of my sister's place (like urban suburb). Here in more farm country near penn. I've seen none to my surprise. I'll bet upstate ny turkeys have migrated north to your area after they were reintroduced 


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## Erythrone (Mar 3, 2014)

cnycharles said:


> In central ny where I grew up they were quite scarce until re-introduced; now there are many. When I hunt deer at uncles they practically trip over me when I'm sitting in one spot. They do scratch the ground pretty thoroughly.
> 
> In nj I saw one turkey in west orange within a block of my sister's place (like urban suburb). Here in more farm country near penn. I've seen none to my surprise. I'll bet upstate ny turkeys have migrated north to your area after they were reintroduced
> 
> ...



Yes, some populations are from New England. Turkeys have also been introduced as "game birds" in many areas in the province. Impressive birds. We now often see flocks of 10 to 30 birds on some corn fields.


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## MaryPientka (Mar 3, 2014)

NYEric said:


> Get live moss, clean preferably , from eBay, mix with or top media with moss, grow orchids.



Thanks


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## mormodes (Mar 4, 2014)

Will wonders never cease. A Don Wimber is in spike!


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## limuhead (Mar 7, 2014)

Lately I have been putting my phrags in baskets and straight sphagnum. I just put a Fliquet in Super Orchiata and #4 Pahoa Roc perlite. Interesting thing is that they all seem to be doing about the same. I know Kai at Quintal Farms uses large bark and lots of large perlte and every time I go there I am amazed at the phrags.


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## SlipperFan (Mar 7, 2014)

I'll bet they get watered every day. With that media, the roots should get lots of air circulation, which they love.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Mar 7, 2014)

Phrags are all or nothing plants. They either love their medium, even if it's stale and rotten, or they hate it. Nothing in between. Phrags loved the Rexius bark that killed much of my collection...they have good roots when the bark has turned to muddy peat. They either thrive in SH or quickly decline, and for me to stick them in CHC means a very fast decline until repotting. They do well enough with straight sphag, but I never use that.


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## mrhappyrotter (Mar 7, 2014)

This post might be entirely irrelevant, so I apologize in advance, but I've always had great success with phrags in primarily inert mixes, throughout the years. I've tried and experimented with lots of media, and more or less, my phrags have acclimated to and grown well in all of them.

My preference and my plants' preferences, as stated have always been for mostly inert mixes, with just a small percentage of organic components. The organic components, at least in theory, provide a small amount of nutrition as they break down, and most likely assist in pH and ion regulation.

My current mix, which I've stuck with for nearly a decade now, is rockwool based. I add large grade perlite (sponge rock) and aliflor/hydroton (or other LECA) as the base. Then I mix in some charcoal and spaghnum to round out the mix. Minor constituents include egg shell, bone meal, and oyster shell "to taste".

This applies primarily to water loving phrags, but honestly, I grow almost all my orchids in the same mix, and they all seem to love it. Even the caudatum type phrags enjoy it -- I simply water those less and avoid leaving them in sitting water.

I shy away from primarily organic mixes due to experience, though I have no experience with orchiata. Bark mixes break down quickly, and while phrags mostly seem fine with this, other orchids do not. Overall, I grow best when my collection is in a consistent mix. Coconut husk was okay, but while plants initially did well in it, over time, they failed to thrive. Maybe it was salt build up? But, rockwool supposedly has the same, and yet, it works really well for me.

I guess if you were to take any advice from me, it would be that most phrags are ambivalent to the potting mix as long as specific requirements are addressed (i.e. water lovers kept wet, others allowed to dry out a bit between watering especially in winter).


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