# Sanderianum and stonei deflasklings



## orchideya (Oct 4, 2013)

Flasks from Orchid Inn:







Paph. sanderianum x sib ('Mini' AQ/AOS x 'Dr. John' AM/AQ/AOS):












Paph. stonei x sib ('Red Pouch' x 'The Best') :











Do they look ok?


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## NYEric (Oct 5, 2013)

So far so good.


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## JeanLux (Oct 5, 2013)

Good luck!!!! Jean


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## orchideya (Oct 5, 2013)

Thank you Eric and Jean!

I put them straight into tank with all other orchids, they are shaded by larger phalaenopsis plants:






Thank keeps 25C temps and 80% RH. They should be ok, right?


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## Justin (Oct 5, 2013)

Looking good!!!!


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## Trithor (Oct 5, 2013)

They are looking good. Do you pot all your plants (and seedlings) in straight sphagnum?


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## orchideya (Oct 5, 2013)

Thank you Justin and Trithor.
Most of my plants are in moss, it is my preferred medium since it is easiest for me to tell when it is dry. 
I usually kill everything in bark.
I moved some mature phals in large pots to bark to try and they seem to be ok, but they had very good root systems when I moved them, so maybe eventually I will kill them too.
My adult paphs are in bark mix, but I do rot a lot of roots in it, when I repot I see their root system getting smaller and smaller. I keep them in bark because that's how I bought them and not sure if I can move them to moss safely.
I am hoping that these new seedlings will get used to moss and will continue to grow in moss when mature.
I do change moss often, so it doesn't have chance to pack up too much.


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## Justin (Oct 5, 2013)

I ammend bark mix with moss for plants out of flask but generally don't use it straight for Paphs. suggest adding perlite for next time you repot the sands and stones


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## AdamD (Oct 5, 2013)

Very nice! I was thinking about getting the stonei. Yours look great!


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## Paphman910 (Oct 5, 2013)

Justin said:


> I ammend bark mix with moss for plants out of flask but generally don't use it straight for Paphs. suggest adding perlite for next time you repot the sands and stones



Totally agree!


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## orchideya (Oct 5, 2013)

Thanks! 
Will do. I was also thinking about adding some limestone pieces. Should I?


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## gotsomerice (Oct 6, 2013)

10 more years to see any flowers?


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## orchideya (Oct 6, 2013)

gotsomerice said:


> 10 more years to see any flowers?



Yeah, don't know what I was thinking. Probably will see grandchildren before the blooms .


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## orchideya (Oct 9, 2013)

Unfortunately few stonei seedlings did not make it already. They were very thin and narrow from the beginning and got bent through the stem during deflasking (I never noticed before how clumsy and fat my fingers are ).
The bent places got brown, looking like rot will be starting there, so I threw them away.
Sanderianums didn't have this problem, they were more sturdy at the stem.
oh, well.


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## goldenrose (Oct 9, 2013)

Sorry to hear that but unfortunately it happens.
It's too bad that they're still using that type of container, it's one way to avoid that from happening but still doesn't guarantee a loss down the road! If you want to try husky flaskings with roots, try a brachy cross, I've bought from 2 different sources & it amazes me the roots they have!


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## orchideya (Oct 9, 2013)

thank you for the suggestion GoldenRose. 
I usually avoided brachy types because I read somewhere that they are very demanding and not easy to grow. I only had one bellatulum before mites.
It is nice to know that they are good from flasks.
I was going to buy something from parvi next spring, maybe delenatii or some cross. Are they hard to deflask?


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## orchideya (Oct 28, 2013)

*Three weeks after deflasking*

Three weeks after deflasking.
I have noticed that moss in these pots doesn't dry out as fast as it did with my phalaenopsis deflasklings in the same conditions.
So I freaked out and rearranged compots to make them a bit more crowded and put large bark chunks under moss for about half the pot.
While pulling seedlings out I noticed tiny new roots started to grow, it is a good sign.

Sanderianums look happier, no losses so far. There are now only 4 compots after rearrangement:






Stonei is not as happy on the top but grew more new roots than sandie. I threw away two more seedlings with damaged foliage. Here is what left:


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## Trithor (Oct 28, 2013)

They seem to be doing very well. The big attrition period is passed. I am sure most should survive from here. Good luck!


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## Ozpaph (Oct 28, 2013)

ggod luck.
keep the temperature and humidity up


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## NYEric (Oct 29, 2013)

Good Luck.


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## orchideya (Oct 31, 2013)

Thanks guys!


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## orchideya (Dec 26, 2013)

Seedlings after 2.5 months from deflasking. They are still alive!
I just moved them from clay pots with sphagnum to plastic pots with bark mix. They don't seem to grow as much, but when repotting I noticed lots of new roots.

Paph. sanderianum . Didn't loose any yet.  :








Paph. stonei. Lost half of the seedlings to rot through the bent stem. Here are the remains, their stems weren't bent:






I am an easily encouraged person and am getting more flasks from OrchidInn in April. This time some hybrids .


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## NYEric (Dec 26, 2013)

Good progress. Sam has good flasks in my opinion. The best is to catch him at a good show. Next time I find out OI is going to be at a show I'm going to I will pre-order and bring extra cash. :wink:


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## AdamD (Dec 26, 2013)

Very nice to see the progress. I potted out my first flask a few days behind you, they look similar in size and substance. All are pushing new leaves. But mine are hybrids, had to go easy on the first flask. You took the plunge, and it looks like they are happy in your care. Good growing.


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## Justin (Dec 26, 2013)

nice work. looking pretty good.


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## eaborne (Dec 26, 2013)

Looks great!


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## abax (Dec 27, 2013)

You're doing so well with them. You're a very brave person...I'd be terrified! Please keep us posted from time to time.


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## cattmad (Dec 27, 2013)

the sandies in particular look to be going very well


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## Paphman910 (Dec 27, 2013)

Nice sanderianum seedlings! They generally grow really well from Sam's flask but about 33% of them will be really vigorous and fast growers!

Can't believe the mortality of the stonei! Sucks!

If you need any tips, let me know.


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## ehanes7612 (Dec 27, 2013)

i found bent stems from Sam (and his flasker) to be a recurring problem


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## orchideya (Dec 27, 2013)

Thank you everybody!
I don't think stonei mortality was my fault. Every seedling that I threw away looked like this:






And I think this bend happened because of packing peanuts inside the flask on the top of seedlings during shipping. Sanderianums were shorter and thicker, they didn't suffer from this, but stonei seedlings were thin and long, and they did bend a lot.

Now, I pre-ordered three more flasks and they will have to be shipped from Toronto too. Here is what Sam said in an email:
_ I will fill the flask inside with foam peanut so that the plants wouldn't jumbled and cause damage. However, you must deflask within a week after you receive the flasks. _ 

Should I ask him to not put peanuts inside? But will I get jumble then?

Thanks.


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## orchideya (Dec 27, 2013)

abax said:


> You're doing so well with them. You're a very brave person...I'd be terrified! Please keep us posted from time to time.



Angela, nothing terrifying about it. Worst thing could happen - they all die and I will buy another flask .

Of course smarter thing would be to try some easy hybrid first. But I tend to do everything backwards. My next flasks are all hybrids.


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## orchideya (Dec 27, 2013)

Paphman910 said:


> Nice sanderianum seedlings! They generally grow really well from Sam's flask but about 33% of them will be really vigorous and fast growers!
> 
> Can't believe the mortality of the stonei! Sucks!
> 
> If you need any tips, let me know.



Thank you Paphman910. If you could share your fertilizing routine for the small seedlings, I would really appreciate that.


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## Justin (Dec 27, 2013)

Just guessing but i suspect the problem is the plantlets may have grown in the flask for too long and they became etoliated. once they "neck" like that they are prone to the mechanical problems you experienced.


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## ehanes7612 (Dec 27, 2013)

orchideya said:


> Thank you everybody!
> I don't think stonei mortality was my fault. Every seedling that I threw away looked like this:
> 
> 
> ...


good luck ..this is exactly why i dont buy flasks from Sam anymore (even his phrag longifoilum album he sent me were crap )


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## ehanes7612 (Dec 27, 2013)

Justin said:


> Just guessing but i suspect the problem is the plantlets may have grown in the flask for too long and they became etoliated. once they "neck" like that they are prone to the mechanical problems you experienced.



it really doesnt matter ..i have had charlesworthii album and barbigerum album (not etiolated ) sent from Sam and most were broken


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## Paphman910 (Dec 28, 2013)

Sam's flask rarely jumbles because the agar is rubbery! Ordered many times from him and sent to me by mail with no issues from Toronto to Victoria.

1/4 strength 20-20-20 year round!


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## SlipperKing (Dec 28, 2013)

Has anyone given Sam feedback? Flask buyers should let Sam know his peanuts are doing more harm then good. He probably should de-flask and ship in damp paper towels rather then the peanut thing.


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## orchideya (Dec 28, 2013)

SlipperKing said:


> Has anyone given Sam feedback? Flask buyers should let Sam know his peanuts are doing more harm then good. He probably should de-flask and ship in damp paper towels rather then the peanut thing.



Well, it was my first time ordering paphiopedilum flasks, I thought there had to be peanuts and it was just my bad luck.
I just emailed Sam asking to not put them in and send flasks as is. Hope they will be ok.


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## orchideya (Dec 28, 2013)

Paphman910 said:


> Sam's flask rarely jumbles because the agar is rubbery! Ordered many times from him and sent to me by mail with no issues from Toronto to Victoria.
> 
> 1/4 strength 20-20-20 year round!



Thank you Paphman910. So, you don't use K-Lite on them?


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## Paphman910 (Dec 29, 2013)

orchideya said:


> Thank you Paphman910. So, you don't use K-Lite on them?



Never bothered with it!


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## Justin (Dec 29, 2013)

i have had many shipped with the flasks still sealed and never any problems.


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## The Orchid Boy (Dec 29, 2013)

Awesome seedlings! My first flask is getting big and almost ready for their own pots.


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