# phragmipedium manzurii



## Phrag-Plus (Jan 1, 2009)

I wondering if somebody got some more information about that new one?...
http://www.orchidspecies.com/phragmanzurii.htm


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## John M (Jan 1, 2009)

WOW! That's nice! I've never heard of this before. It's spectacular!


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## Kyle (Jan 1, 2009)

Interesting, thanks for bringing it to our attention.

Looks kinda like a schlimii hybrid, or could be Phragmipedium schlimii f. albiflorum.

Kyle


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## Heather (Jan 1, 2009)

Definitely looks like it has some schlimii influence going on, or is related maybe? I'd not heard of it yet.


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## John M (Jan 1, 2009)

Hmmm; I had just taken it as a fact that this was a new species and not a hybrid. Obviously, it's related to schlimii and fischeri. I'd really like to learn more about this one and see more photos.


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## rdlsreno (Jan 1, 2009)

That is interesting! I does look like a Phrag. schlimii with rounder staminode.

Ramon


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## SlipperKing (Jan 1, 2009)

It's suppose to be from Columbia. So I bet it's a sport of schlimii


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## John M (Jan 1, 2009)

According to PhragWeb, schlimii f. albiflorum is all white with just a bit of pink in the centre of the flower and the staminode remains yellow with the 2 normal purple/red spots at the bottom. The Phrag. manzurii in the photo is not white, it's yellow. It's got *more* than a little pink in the centre and the staminode has no purple/red spots. The photo is not clear; so, it's really impossible for any of us to say; but, I'd really like to see more photos and learn what Olaf thinks. It's seems to be as different from schlimii as fischeri is different from schlimii.....and fischeri is widely accepted as a valid species.


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## ORG (Jan 1, 2009)

I had the good luck to get 2 pictures more, but it is difficult to decide on this base, if it is really a new species, a variety of schlimii or andreettae or the hybrid between. It looks different to schlimii in the staminode and the leaves for the first view. 
But let us wait at first for more informations and the official description.

Best greetings

Olaf


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## SlipperFan (Jan 1, 2009)

ORG said:


> I had the good luck to get 2 pictures more, but it is difficult to decide on this base, if it is really a new species, a variety of schlimii or andreettae or the hybrid between. It looks different to schlimii in the staminode and the leaves for the first view.
> But let us wait at first for more informations and the official description.
> 
> Best greetings
> ...


I was wondering about it's connection to andreettae, also. It sure is cute, whatever it is. And of course, I need one badly!


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## NYEric (Jan 2, 2009)

I forwarded it to Glen Decker; I'll ask him. Its lateral petals don't look like andreetae to me. I'd like to see more of the plant.


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## Kyle (Jan 2, 2009)

I don't think its very closely related to andreettea. Color and shape don't resemble andreettea at all. Closest to schlimii.

Kyle


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## streetmorrisart (Jan 2, 2009)

This is very striking, and not just because I haven't seen it before / can't have one. Really beautiful. I hope I can learn more about it soon!


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## Scooby5757 (Jan 2, 2009)

Oh god....oh my god. I want one. 

Who's gonna stop me. :viking:


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## NYEric (Jan 5, 2009)

I got an email from Glen and he thinks it's probably a variety of schlimii but tests will show.


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## SlipperKing (Jan 6, 2009)

I got word last night from a friend, he is working on buying two flasks (from whom ever). His plan is to send them to Hawaii to compot out. We'll see what we see.


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## Drorchid (Jan 7, 2009)

I too think it is probably a variety or a form of schlimii. The staminodal shield looks more like a schlimii than a fischeri. We have had 2 clones of schlimii that also had some yellow pigments in the flowers, I think this "manzurii" is more extreme and has even more yellow pigments, so I would call it the "flavum" form of schlimii, but what ever it is I do like it, and I think it could be useful for breeding yellow phrags.

Our 2 clones of schlimii with yellow pigments: 
Phrag. schlimii 'Golden Halo' had some yellow pigments in the petals and on the outside rim of the pouch:






Phrag. schlimii 'Yellow Heart' with yellow pigments in the pouch:










Robert


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## Leo Schordje (Jan 7, 2009)

*being described in Lankesteriana 8 (1)*

The description is in the galley proof stage. It will go to print soon in Lankesteriana. Phrag mazurii is being described by Wesley E. Higgins & Paula Viveros. It seems Selby learned from the kovachii disaster - Paula was sent down to Columbia to examine specimens in situ and the herbarium specimens are deposited in the herbarium at Universidad de Caldas.

David Manzur collected plants in Antioquia, Colombia, several years ago. He is the author of several articles on the varieties of Milt. vexillaria growing in Colombia. He also collects Phrags from the various regions of Colombia. He showed Paula 8 speciemens of this new plant in bloom and took her to the collection area. 

The fact that the type location is known, not just a sport found in cultivation, and that 8 different clones were examined in Colombia all lend solid support that this is a new species. The photos in Lankesteriana show a flower that definitely looks different than shlimii. The dorsal & petals are very green in the disected specimen. The gestalt is very different.

I think it is a good species, and it will stand. I think it is more different from schlimii than fisherii is different from schlimii. Though clearly it is in the same sub-genera as schlimii. 

Leo


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## John M (Jan 7, 2009)

That's great news, Leo. Thanks for posting it. This is kind of exciting. I'd love to see more photos. I hope that some begin filtering out soon.


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## NYEric (Jan 7, 2009)

Man, I haven't even got my andreetae yet!


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## SlipperFan (Jan 7, 2009)

I think it's amazing that new Phrags are still being discovered. I wonder what else is out there...


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## SlipperKing (Jan 7, 2009)

*Phrag manzurii discription*

Try this link. After it opens, it should ask for user name or email, type; Maudiae (at sign) aol.com Password; manzuri. After it opens go to the bottom half and click on one of the symbols this should list the files. If this works, you see the offical write up.


https://share.acrobat.com/adc/adc.do?app=org


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## Rick (Jan 7, 2009)

Leo Schordje said:


> The fact that the type location is known, not just a sport found in cultivation, and that 8 different clones were examined in Colombia all lend solid support that this is a new species.
> 
> Leo



Sounds like they got it right on this one. It would also be great if they document population variability, and even greater if they can identify a pollinator.

Do you know what the nearest distance this species is to schlimii, fisheri, and the rest?


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## cnycharles (Jan 7, 2009)

NYEric said:


> Man, I haven't even got my andreetae yet!



i'd be happy if I just had a schlimii flower for me


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## Kyle (Jan 7, 2009)

Rick said:


> Sounds like they got it right on this one. It would also be great if they document population variability, and even greater if they can identify a pollinator.
> 
> Do you know what the nearest distance this species is to schlimii, fisheri, and the rest?



Not sure about the range of schlimii, but fisherii and andretteae are found further south, near the ecuador/columbian border. I don't think the ranges overlap.

Kyle


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## tomkalina (Jan 8, 2009)

Does anyone know anything about the plant's growth habit? We acquired a plant marked P. schlimii from Ecuagenera that has a strikingly similar flower color but the leaves are much shorter (20cm leaf span) and wider (2.5cm) than a typical schlimii - more like P. fischeri or P. andreetae. 

Thanks, Tom


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## SlipperKing (Jan 8, 2009)

Go up to post #22 where I put in a link and try it.


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## kentuckiense (Jan 8, 2009)

SlipperKing said:


> Go up to post #22 where I put in a link and try it.



Nothing. Just links to a generic Adobe page. PM me and I may be able to help.


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## Kyle (Jan 8, 2009)

Nope, doesn't work for me. What are you tryin to post?

KYle


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## NYEric (Jan 8, 2009)

Nope; forgot password?


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## SlipperKing (Jan 8, 2009)

maybe this will get the job done.



https://share.acrobat.com/adc/document.do?docid=6f06e413-6635-4ad4-9cba-6bf7d40d115a


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## NYEric (Jan 8, 2009)

Maybe not!


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## Kyle (Jan 8, 2009)

It worked for me this time. Its the official description from the december issue of Lankasteriana.

Kyle


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## kentuckiense (Jan 8, 2009)

Worked perfectly for me. Problem solved I guess.


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## NYEric (Jan 8, 2009)

All I see is a screen w/ an acrobat icon!


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## kentuckiense (Jan 8, 2009)

What a gorgeous species! Thanks for sharing.


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## John M (Jan 8, 2009)

NYEric, I'm on dial-up. So, things are very slow. However, I get the same screen that you're getting and I can see a red "loading" bar slowly crawling across the underside of the icon. Try putting the page down on your task bar for a while and see if it opens eventually.


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## NYEric (Jan 8, 2009)

Will do thanx, or I might just go over to their building and assassinate all the system admins! 
OK got it finally, Thanx mucho! Does anyone know if Ms. Viveros is related to the import Co. in Florida?


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## phrag guy (Jan 8, 2009)

worked for me,that is nice to see. can't wait to see one in person


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## NYEric (Jan 8, 2009)

As usual, stupid CITES restrictions will probably make that a lot sooner for Canada than US!


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## biothanasis (Jan 8, 2009)

Very cute newly discovered Phrag...


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## SlipperFan (Jan 8, 2009)

Thanks, Rick. This worked for me just fine today, though not last night. It did take a long time, for some reason, for the document to load. This is an interesting document, with all the data including the area it comes from. Thanks!


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## NYEric (Mar 11, 2009)

An article on Phrag manzurii was published in the latest AOS Orchids magazine.


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## slippertalker (Mar 11, 2009)

The article describes the species and shows a couple of nice photos of two different clones. It is a very lovely flower and should provide some new avenues for hybridizing. It is already being reproduced artificially so it will be available over the next few years.


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## tim (Mar 11, 2009)

We heard an interesting presentation on this, andreetae, fischeri, and schlimii at the Paph Guild meeting this year from Eric Christensen. He commented that they all seem to be forms of schlimii representing a gradation from very strongly colored (fischeri) to very lightly colored (andreetae), and that the differences prescribed in the various taxonomic treatments pertaining to staminode shape and (what a terrible choice of taxonomic characters) petal wavy-ness and petal shape are quite variable within each of these "species". It's pretty evident you can find schlimiis with wavy and non-wavy, oblong or rounded, flat and recurved petals...not a very good distinctive trait to separate one species from the next. Of course, these are just Dr. Christensen's opinions...but he is a pretty reputable taxonomist.

I dunno...I don't grow any of them 
Give me a paph any day!!

-Tim


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## slippertalker (Mar 11, 2009)

Tim,

I think you are referring to a lumper versus a splitter. The same observations can be seen within Paphiopedilum also, i.e. section Cochlepetalum - they are all variations on the same theme but differ in varying respects.


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## NYEric (Mar 11, 2009)

tim said:


> We heard an interesting presentation on this, andreetae, fischeri, and schlimii at the Paph Guild meeting..
> I dunno...I don't grow any of them
> Give me a paph any day!!
> 
> -Tim


Oh you poor thing! ity:


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## SlipperFan (Mar 11, 2009)

NYEric said:


> Oh you poor thing! ity:


Yes. My condolences, also! oke:


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## Leo Schordje (Mar 12, 2009)

Lumpers vs Splitters - as a bird watcher, all birds can be labelled with one of 4 official bird names. Little Brown Bird, Medium Brown Bird, Big Brown Bird and Big White Bird. Swans & Egrets, Eagles & Vultures, Warblers and Sparrows, robins & jays, all are good examples of the 4 species of bird. Most of the time - that's good enough for me.

now we just have to work out a similar scheme for slippers.


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## SlipperFan (Mar 12, 2009)

How about: big long petals, big round, little long petals, and little round.oke:


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## NYEric (Mar 13, 2009)

Green vs Red!


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