# Politics. Really?!



## NYEric (Mar 8, 2011)

Is Michigan's state government really going to use their state's financial crisis to pass a bill that would allow professional corporate "Crisis Managers" to exempt the power of local elected officials?!


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## Lanmark (Mar 9, 2011)

Yes. 

First up were the massive tax cuts for corporate friends of the Governor which must of course be paid for somehow. Then came the push to eliminate the Earned Income Tax Credit for working class citizens with the lowest of wages. Meanwhile, the job skills training and employment agency called "Michigan Works!" with 100 offices Statewide has landed on the chopping block. They intend to shut it down completely.

Now the State is cutting off revenue sharing with local municipalities and school districts throughout the State which will trigger widespread and immediate financial crises and insolvencies. The State will then use the excuse of financial crisis to appoint emergency managers (various personal friends of the Governor) who will step in to assume control. They will be able to do whatever they damned well please starting with the dissolution of local governments and school boards followed up by union busting, closing down local fire and police departments, firing teachers, consolidating classrooms, cancelling programs at will, ordering millage elections and acting like despots in general. Part of the larger but thinly veiled goal is to crush the left-leaning political clout of unions before the next presidential election rolls around.

Bills were introduced trying to limit the powers of these crisis managers but these efforts were immediately shot down. A bill was introduced to limit the salary for each of these crisis managers to no more than the official Governor's salary of $159,300, but it was promptly defeated. (To be fair I must point out that our illustrious Governor has voluntarily reduced his own pay to $1 but the amount of wealth he will amass as a result of the policies he implements is something we will likely never know.) Take into account the emergency manager who has been appointed to the Detroit Public School System. His name is Robert Bobb. His personal compensation is $425,000, $275K of which comes directly out of the school district where he is cutting programs and teachers and placing 60 children into each classroom in order to "save money".

What is happening in the USA today in places like Wisconsin, Ohio, and Michigan lines up with classic Milton Friedman Shock Doctrine Economics. Create a crisis and then use that crisis to break unions, kill democracy, end all social safety nets and implement plutocracy. Humans beings are the disposable factors in this equation as the greatest transfer of wealth in the history of the USA is taking place today, stealing life and livelihood from the middle and lower classes and placing it into the hands of the oligarchs who care for absolutely no one but themselves. There's plenty of wealth left in the United States of America today, but fully 50% of that wealth is firmly in the pockets of America's billionaires. Mark my words: that percentage will continue to grow and grow and grow until only 10% of America's wealth will belong to 90% of her population. It's going to get really ugly. I can see the graffiti on the wall.

I say let's cut the Military-Industrial Complex which Eisenhower warned us of. That's an excellent place to start if we really want to balance this nation's budget. Let's implement a truly progessive system of taxation where the wealthy can continue to build their wealth but at a more reasonable pace. Let's establish some fair trade policies and stop sending our jobs overseas. I've seen and heard it all, and I'm sick and tired of the crap falling on my ears out of the mouths of FNC imbeciles and their hangers-on. I believe in Social Democracy, and I am not ashamed to shout it from the mountaintops until the day I cease to have any breath left in my body.

Now don't get me started... :evil: ...oops, maybe I've already started. :wink:

Peace, ya'll.
http://youtu.be/x8bc_ZyORbM <<< :rollhappy:


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## Shiva (Mar 9, 2011)

Lanmark said:


> Yes.
> 
> First up were the massive tax cuts for corporate friends of the Governor which must of course be paid for somehow. Then came the push to eliminate the Earned Income Tax Credit for working class citizens with the lowest of wages...



Unfortunately, the great pendulum of History seems to has swung to the conservative side everywhere. We're not much better off here in Canada, Before first elected as prime minister, Stephen Harper promised transparency in government. Anything but! Then he went on the security crime fighting stuff like every other conservative groups. Being tough on criminal sells well for any conservative government. Hey! We just had our eight or ninth murder in Montreal since the beginning of the year, and it's more or less the average in the rest of the country. How much of that increase in security do we really need and at what cost? No transparency there. Building prisons when it comes to it costs a lot more than schools and it creates schools for criminals. Great thinking! Now Mr Harper doesn't want federal construction projets to be attributed to the Government of Canada but to the Harper Government. Thus, my tax money is being used to boast the popularity of a megalomaniac I would never ever in many lifetimes consider voting for. We're preparing to go in election and the polls are good for the conservatives. I fear that we're done for.


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## ronan (Mar 9, 2011)

ok, same here in france, the lost democracy...no needs to be detailed...
crisis is the modern way to push the limits!
enjoy.


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## Hera (Mar 9, 2011)

Thank you Lanmark, couldn't have said it better. I'd like to know why the working class is suddenly become demonized. The people who are protecting the people and educating the children have been cast as the enemy. What planet are we living on??????????


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## gonewild (Mar 9, 2011)

Hera said:


> What planet are we living on??????????



One with too many hominids.


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## Rick (Mar 9, 2011)

Yes the hypocrisy of sending our troops to the middle east in defense of democracy while the same people are advocating the demise of democracy in our own country.

Actually what is advocated by the right is not democracy, but every man for himself (or freedom to screw your neighbor if you have the means and don't get caught). Presently the hope is to financially cripple enforcement mechanisms so they can claim to support the laws/regulations, but not get caught when they violate them. I haven't met a Tea Party-er yet that follows the speed limits!! 

Talking to the Tea Party types, they talk out of both sides of their mouths.
They act as if the freedoms we presently enjoy (like womens or African American's right to vote) have always been in place and those are a given for future protection. But everything else has been inapropriatley interpretted by "activist judges" to get all the present ammendments to the constitution (like womens or African American voting rightsoke. 

The swing to the right is more due to complacency of the young who don't realize they are about to be enslaved (or else they feel hopeless), than to any general attitude of the public at large. The voting demographics of the last elections basically support that notion.

We'll see if it has to get as bad as the "good old days" of the 1800's before the young'uns wake up and see what's getting taken away from them.


On the other hand, maybe it will be good for the environment for 1/4 of the population to die from chronic illness, the poor masses huddled into multiple
families into mud hut cubicles, and our purchasing power reduced to simply food and cooking fuel.


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## Lanmark (Mar 9, 2011)

Too many hominids indeed, gonewild!



Hera said:


> Thank you Lanmark, couldn't have said it better. I'd like to know why the working class is suddenly become demonized. The people who are protecting the people and educating the children have been cast as the enemy.



My ideology isn't the most popular these days, and I don't want to alienate my orchid-growing friends who believe differently than I do. That being said, I also refuse to apologize for speaking the truth. I would have to answer your question by saying that selfishness and greed (both monetary and political) are the primary driving forces behind the demonization you speak of, Hera.

I believe poor levels of education nationwide have led to a lot of misconceptions and a generalized lack of knowledge regarding sound economic principles as well as Constitutional law. This has allowed vast numbers of voters to be easily misled by the political tools of big business behind the scenes (Koch Brothers, Tea Party). I also believe that widespread religious bigotry plays a significant role in fueling the fires of many eager politicians who seek power and influence. Bachmann, Palin, Angle, Demint and Toomey aren't doing this country any favors.

That's how I see it anyway. My views may not garner me many friends these days, but I am firm in my convictions. I've lived a lot of life, I've been to a lot of places, and I've learned a lot of things over the years. No system of governance or economy is perfect, but I'm absolutely certain we can do a heck of a lot better than what we are doing today.


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## Lanmark (Mar 9, 2011)

Rick said:


> The swing to the right is more due to complacency of the young who don't realize they are about to be enslaved (or else they feel hopeless), than to any general attitude of the public at large. The voting demographics of the last elections basically support that notion.
> 
> We'll see if it has to get as bad as the "good old days" of the 1800's before the young'uns wake up and see what's getting taken away from them.
> 
> ...



I'd have to agree with you, Rick, that voter complacency among the young has also played a significant role in what is happening today.

I fear what you said about poor huddled masses, but I also believe it is a very real possibility, a scenario which could easily play out within our foreseeable future.

As for the environment, Dominionists and others have already begun to villify the green movement with a vengeance. It's truly frightening to see how their minds spin. http://youtu.be/to1naH2A7GU


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## Shiva (Mar 9, 2011)

Widespread ignorance also plays a role. You only need to read the feedback forums on CNN and MSNBC stories to be horrified by the lack of public knowledge and understanding about the world they live in. Ignorant people are easily manipulated and the Tea Party and other fearmongers thrive on them.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Mar 9, 2011)

I spend too much time discussing politics on other sites...I have decided that I will always avoid politics on orchid sites....which allows me to get along perfectly well with characters like George Norris and Peter O'Byrne.


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## Rick (Mar 9, 2011)

Eric Muehlbauer said:


> I spend too much time discussing politics on other sites...I have decided that I will always avoid politics on orchid sites....which allows me to get along perfectly well with characters like George Norris and Peter O'Byrne.



I guess Eric....Sorry but sometimes after a full day of it you just gotta vent.

I'll move on to something else now.


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## SlipperFan (Mar 9, 2011)

That is very noble of you, Eric.

But this is a thread that orchidists can choose to read, participate in, or ignore. My thought is that, just maybe, bringing some of these real issues to the light of day may help bring about some changes in thinking -- much like what is happening in the "why" of what is happening in the Middle East.

For the past two days, I've been having a "conversation" with my niece's husband on facebook. He takes a position quite directly opposed to mine about the issues discussed above. At the end, I could only say we agree to disagree. 

It's driving me crazy. I don't think I will live long enough to see the pendulum start swinging the other way. And that's driving me nuts.


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## Lanmark (Mar 10, 2011)

Today Michigan's Senate passed the Emergency Financial Manager bill and sent it on to the House. They also approved the resolution to overturn domestic partner benefits. Meanwhile Wisconsin's Republicans have pulled a fast and evil maneuver and passed a bill which strips nearly all collective bargaining rights from public employees. They should all be ashamed of themselves. What a disgusting underhanded lot of subhuman beings -- liars and thieves each and every one. This is no longer the United States of America. This is tyranny of the worst kind and it will not go unanswered.


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## TyroneGenade (Mar 10, 2011)

Lanmark said:


> ...followed up by union busting...



From my view, in the ANC one-party state of South Africa, we could do with some union busting. The public service unions (never mind others) merrily rape the tax payer on an annual basis. The ANC, which is in bed with the national union, COSATU, is happy to let the unions get away with this as COSATU in tern tells its members (every single unionized worker) to vote ANC. Here in S. Africa we don't so much have a democracy as national cleptocracy where the ANC agrees to buy union votes with middle-class money (who pay the majority of the tax). The middle-class, which is predominantly HARD WORKING whites, muslims, indians and mix-racial groups are then treated as 2nd class citizens as we are the demographical minority.

Of course, what I am stating here is no different to the US where unions sell votes to the Democrats who then go along merrily raping the the US tax payer. Of course your alternative party is no better as they deludingly pursue the Crony-Capitalist agenda of screwing voters out of their collective assets in the name of cutting prices and privatization. (For the last 15 years the ANC has pursued that idea but now the socialist camp in it has won its turn at the gravy boat.)

Any country where votes can be bought by a ruling or would-be ruling party by means of the public purse, or where the free market can be subverted by Crony-Capitalism, ceases to be a democracy. It becomes a festering sore of injustice which inevitably bursts open into civil strife.

P.S. In Friedman's defense, he envisioned a free market. The Crony-Capitalism did like any smart scum would do, and see the potential to exploit people for personal gain. Naomi Klein's "Shock Doctrine" is a one-sided book with absolutely no balance. It is as accurate a mirror of the real world as those wonky mirrors at the fun fair. If you have had the misfortune of reading it (such as myself---hell, was that a painful read for a thinking person!) you have to see some balance. Thomas Sowell's Applied Economics is a good choice.


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## Shiva (Mar 10, 2011)

That pendulum I was talking about earlier can also go too far to the left. When it does, there is a strong reaction to move it back the other way. The best place for it is in the middle. Then everybody is in balance. It'a simplification I know, but in the end, it's all about balance. In Canada actually, the conservative party demonizes the opposition leaders with crappy unflattering black and white pubs while Harper himself is shown in full colour with pictures of his family on the wall at the nation's desk looking like Winston Churchill. How's that for extremes?


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## Lanmark (Mar 10, 2011)

We'll have to agree to disagree on many points, Tyrone. I am a thinking person, thank you. Naomi Klein may have missed the mark on some major points, but make no mistake about it, Milton Friedman supported shock economics and Crony-Capitalism at any and all costs to humanity. He revelled in it no matter what he may have asserted to the contrary. Actions behind closed doors speak louder than public assertions.

Thomas Sowell is a Libertarian who supports a laissez-faire economy. I support Social Democracy. I believe Capitalism must be tempered by rules and regulations to ensure balance and honesty lest greed run amok and trample everyone in its path. Free Market Capitalism has killed almost as many people as has religon. Both are insidious.

I find Social Democracy to be nicely in the middle. It's not Communism nor is it Plutocracy. It's Capitalism with compassion. It's not Totalitarianism nor is it an anarchic free-for-all. It is a system combining Representative Democracy as well as Consensus. It is Fair Trade and freedom for everyone where enterprise is encouraged and greed is reined in.

Education, social safety nets and universal healthcare provide a higher quality of life for everyone. Citizens can enjoy freedom of religion or freedom from religion. It's their choice. There is true separation of Church and State. Labor unions are not villified. Workers' voices are heard and fair wages with benefits are paid while consumers have protection under the law. Social justice, human rights, and individual civil liberties rule the day. Environmentalism is embraced instead of being scoffed, and foreign policy is not dominated by an agressive bloated military motivated by bloodlust and greed.

Call me an idealist if you will, but I believe these are just and noble goals toward which we can strive. Civilization will not survive if humanity continues along the same worn paths of aggression, greed and environmental destruction.


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## NYEric (Mar 10, 2011)

The fear that the Tea-party/conservative serving/ Republican bent, etc movement is building is that white America is becoming a racial minority. In the mean time, if you look at the government what you see is predominantly white faces. Where is this supposed "Minority" whose will is empowered thru goverment there. The right wing who pander to these fears is really being manipulated to counter the movement that got a "Minority" persident elected. The movement who began to see that the last Bush administration's primary goal was to line the pockets of the last Bush administration! Unions dont settle all work problems and I agree that some laziness is inherent in the job security provided but the unions were created to protect workers. When corporate values come ahead of the workers the formula is disaster!


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## Candace (Mar 10, 2011)

NYEric said:


> The fear that the Tea-party/conservative serving/ Republican bent, etc movement is building is that white America is becoming a racial minority. In the mean time, if you look at the government what you see is predominantly white faces. Where is this supposed "Minority" whose will is empowered thru goverment there. The right wing who pander to these fears is really being manipulated to counter the movement that got a "Minority" persident elected. The movement who began to see that the last Bush administration's primary goal was to line the pockets of the last Bush administration! Unions dont settle all work problems and I agree that some laziness is inherent in the job security provided but the unions were created to protect workers. When corporate values come ahead of the workers the formula is disaster!



Take a look at Forbes' U.S. top 400 list of billionaires. What is the common denominator? Very few non-white, males appear on this list. These folks are the ones that are funding much of the current legislature and you can bet are behind much of what goes on in our government.


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## NYEric (Mar 10, 2011)

Word!


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## gonewild (Mar 10, 2011)

I'm moving back to Peru, you guys screwed this place up.


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## NYEric (Mar 10, 2011)

I'm sure its the same in "civilised" areas there also!


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## gonewild (Mar 10, 2011)

NYEric said:


> I'm sure its the same in "civilised" areas there also!



I not going to no civilized area. Are you crazy? I'm going where the orchids grow without help.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Mar 10, 2011)

See, I don't need to post about politics here...too many people I agree with.


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## SlipperFan (Mar 10, 2011)

gonewild said:


> I not going to no civilized area. Are you crazy? I'm going where the orchids grow without help.


Utopia!


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## SlipperFan (Mar 11, 2011)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUpO1QFMDtM&feature=player_embedded


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## Lanmark (Mar 11, 2011)

Snyder is evil. He might as well change his name to Satan. This will NOT go unanswered. There will be HELL to pay!


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## PaphMadMan (Mar 11, 2011)

Thanks for this thread everyone. As an employee of the State of Wisconsin, circumstances have me feeling a little shell-shocked, out-numbered and out-gunned, even when among a crowd of 50,000 on my side. A few words of sanity in an unexpected place really helped. 

Lanmark, if you've got Satan in Michigan I'm not sure there is a word that adequately names the evil thing in our governor's chair, his minions, or his puppet masters.


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## Hera (Mar 11, 2011)

Ohio hasn't been kind either, I'm just waiting for the pay cuts to begin. Oh, and you know how they said we wouldn't have to pay exorbinant union dues and we should be grateful, well you don't think they'll let us keep that extra do you.


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## biothanasis (Mar 11, 2011)

Welcome to my world and the world that many fellow human beings started living a long time ago...!


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## Lanmark (Mar 11, 2011)

PaphMadMan said:


> Thanks for this thread everyone. As an employee of the State of Wisconsin, circumstances have me feeling a little shell-shocked, out-numbered and out-gunned, even when among a crowd of 50,000 on my side. A few words of sanity in an unexpected place really helped.
> 
> Lanmark, if you've got Satan in Michigan I'm not sure there is a word that adequately names the evil thing in our governor's chair, his minions, or his puppet masters.



Your governor is Satan II :rollhappy:
You should follow the link provided by slipperfan if you haven't already done so. Democracy is coming to an end in Michigan aka the Dictatorstate of Snyderstan.



biothanasis said:


> Welcome to my world and the world that many fellow human beings started living a long time ago...!



I can't live this way. I don't know how others do it, but apparently those who do are much stronger than I am. I must leave.


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## SlipperFan (Mar 11, 2011)

Lanmark said:


> YI can't live this way. I don't know how others do it, but apparently those who do are much stronger than I am. I must leave.


Where you going? There is madness all over the world these days.


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## Bolero (Mar 11, 2011)

Shiva said:


> Widespread ignorance also plays a role. You only need to read the feedback forums on CNN and MSNBC stories to be horrified by the lack of public knowledge and understanding about the world they live in. Ignorant people are easily manipulated and the Tea Party and other fearmongers thrive on them.



As opposed to Fox which provides the honest truth?


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## Lanmark (Mar 12, 2011)

SlipperFan said:


> Where you going? There is madness all over the world these days.



Sigh...I'm probably going nowhere in the immediate future, Dot, but I see myself in Denmark, the Netherlands or Sweden within five years' time. We'll see  (I'd prefer France but I think Scandinavia is the safer choice.)


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## biothanasis (Mar 12, 2011)

Well I think there is no safe place...! This is happening all over the world. The allocation of wealth from the poor (gazillions) to the rich (few) so that they become richer! It is the classic tendency of human beings all over the history. I do not know if patience is all we can do. But then again what can we do against the unconcern and ingratitude of those who govern us?? Will our voices be heard or just neglected for another of the million times?? Pfff..... on the other hand I think I and ourselves are to blame that we permited all these to happen. We (I speak for my county now) have lost every value and ethics. Sometimes I wonder why do we do this?? But there is no answer where profit and money come in...!!! It is that simple.


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## Lanmark (Mar 12, 2011)

There is a limit to how far people can be pushed before revolution ensues. I wonder if I could get rich selling guillotine-building supplies. :drool: :rollhappy: :evil:


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## Shiva (Mar 12, 2011)

Lanmark said:


> Sigh...I'm probably going nowhere in the immediate future, Dot, but I see myself in Denmark, the Netherlands or Sweden within five years' time. We'll see  (I'd prefer France but I think Scandinavia is the safer choice.)



You'd be welcome in Quebec. We have a liberal government probably on the way out but the opposition is even more to te left. It would be like France in America. Of course there is that winter, but you can't have it all.


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## biothanasis (Mar 12, 2011)

Lanmark said:


> There is a limit to how far people can be pushed before revolution ensues. I wonder if I could get rich selling guillotine-building supplies. :drool: :rollhappy: :evil:



hehe....interesting idea...!!!:rollhappy::rollhappy:


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## Shiva (Mar 12, 2011)

biothanasis said:


> hehe....interesting idea...!!!:rollhappy::rollhappy:



Maybe we could update it to a guillotine with a remote.


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## Lanmark (Mar 12, 2011)

Shiva said:


> You'd be welcome in Quebec...


I'm not adverse to living in Quebec. I love it there! The winter's cold, however, is daunting to say the least. 

I've been quite certain for a long time that I would move to France by the end of this decade. Life happens (pout: it's not fair!), so I've allowed my dream to settle on the back burner. Now I feel the urge to go more than ever, but my choices are no longer so clear.



Shiva said:


> Maybe we could update it to a guillotine with a remote.



I'm so bad to have suggested guillotines. :evil: If only I had the powers of Endora, no real harm would be inflicted. I'd sure have a lot of fun putting things right, though, and everyone would be laughing throughout the process.


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## cnycharles (Mar 12, 2011)

gonewild said:


> ....... Weapons of Mass Destruction are not allowed to be used by private citizens.



 I thought that's what television sets were .... .really, it's just my opinion, but here in north america, maybe things haven't been so hot for a short term of history, but to suggest revolution without really having tried on a large scale any meaningful change over time is very knee-jerk. our lot is very good compared to many other countries and peoples over the scale of human history. there were many small protests in the 50s and 60s that led to very positive changes. 
one of the problems with suggesting forceful radical change is that there is always a power group poised and ready to usurp any population movement to their advantage. the best thing anyone could do is not react to their efforts, and work positively in a desired direction. look to very and near human history for political or social groups who were more than willing to stir up the pot and jump into power when things got very excitable. ... and then things only go downhill from there. a person or group pushed into a rage can easily be pointed into any particular direction, and then manipulated into doing whatever the lazy and cowardly power-hungry types want


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## Lanmark (Mar 12, 2011)

cnycharles said:


> ...but to suggest revolution without really having tried on a large scale any meaningful change over time is very knee-jerk. our lot is very good compared to many other countries and peoples over the scale of human history. there were many small protests in the 50s and 60s that led to very positive changes.



Certainly I am _not_ acting in a knee-jerk manner. My comment about revolution was made as a warning of what _could_ happen if we don't change course. It was _not_ a call to action. My reference to guillotines was made purely in jest. I believe my comments were _quite_ clear in both cases.

That being said, I have worked toward meaningful positive change for 30+ years by repeatedly volunteering my time and effort to numerous progressive organizations and social causes, making frequent charitable and political monetary contributions and by showing up at the voting polls without fail _each and every time_ there has been an election since I was old enough to vote. I have witnessed, however, very little real change for the better during that period of time. Individual civil rights, economic opportunities for the average worker, and environmental protection laws have all suffered.



cnycharles said:


> ...a person or group pushed into a rage can easily be pointed into any particular direction, and then manipulated into doing whatever the lazy and cowardly power-hungry types want



You don't think that is what is happening right now with all these racist, birther, reactionary nutjobs led by the raging mouths of Beck and Limbaugh, financed by the Koch brothers, and pandered to by the likes of Michele Bachmann, Sarah Palin, Sharron Angle, Jan Brewer, and Scott Walker??? 

Ignorant people who allow their emotions and superstitions to rule their intellect have increasingly made themselves the pawns of the far right political movement in recent years. These people get out and vote with regularity. The apathy of younger voters and the disenfranchised, meanwhile, has kept them away from the voting booths. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts and his ultra-conservative cronies have further stacked the cards by allowing unlimited political campaign contributions to be made by big corporations with deep pockets. The result is having governors like Snyder of Michigan and Walker of Wisconsin take office.

To sit idly by and not speak out in protest against the decidedly authoritarian, undemocratic and unilaterally partisan actions of these activist politicians would be just about the most unpatriotic thing I can imagine doing right now. I will continue to speak out loudly and without apology until our leadership changes direction from its well-trodden path of international aggression and nationally-destructive personal and corporate greed. I _might_ shut up about it once I have given up all hope and moved my arse to France or the Netherlands. :wink:


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## SlipperFan (Mar 12, 2011)

Hear! Hear!

...or Canada?


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## Clark (Mar 13, 2011)

Popcorn anybody?


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## cnycharles (Mar 13, 2011)

Lanmark said:


> Certainly I am _not_ acting in a knee-jerk manner. My comment about revolution was made as a warning of what _could_ happen if we don't change course. It was _not_ a call to action. My reference to guillotines was made purely in jest. I believe my comments were _quite_ clear in both cases.



Hello Lanmark, just so that you know, I hadn't replied to your specific message directly or indirectly... I just made a statement generally to the overall mood presented here and many other places (about a desire for revolution). To be truthful when I wrote my part I had no memory of your having written about revolution  .
In case some may not have understood what I was pointing out, mob psychology can be like physics.. if a group is welded together by hatred it is much easier to direct as one unit. Imagine trying to push a pile of sand, or pushing a concrete block. If you can remain a clear-headed individual wary to the efforts or power-mongers, you are very hard to move or influence. Once you have lost your head to something, you are welded to the whole and once it starts moving it will be extremely difficult to remove yourself no matter what the actions of the group are.

I like mine salted with butter!


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## luvsorchids (Mar 13, 2011)

> I like mine salted with butter!




:drool: and with a cup of hot chocolate to wash it down .

Susan


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## SlipperFan (Mar 16, 2011)

For those who want to know what is happening in Michigan:
http://blogs.forbes.com/erikkain/20...se-with-democracy-invokes-radical-new-powers/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53BkWfyb9n0&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYrv65HufIs&feature=player_embedded#at=413
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvqQ_olFJ2U&feature=related


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## Lanmark (Mar 16, 2011)

Thanks Dot!


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