# Paph. Dollgoldi



## Leo_5313 (May 10, 2011)

First bloom. I really like it.


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## SlipperFan (May 10, 2011)

Shape looks like Dollgoldi, but not the color -- at least, not ones I've seen.


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## W. Beetus (May 10, 2011)

SlipperFan said:


> Shape looks like Dollgoldi, but not the color -- at least, not ones I've seen.


 
I agree. I see Dollgoldi as having more horizontal petals from the rothschildianum parent.


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## Jorch (May 10, 2011)

Looks more like a Harold Koopowitz to me?  Nice color and markings though


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## gonewild (May 10, 2011)

This is Dollgoldi.
Most often yellow but Dollgoldi can be shades of green and even very brown.


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## John M (May 11, 2011)

gonewild said:


> This is Dollgoldi.
> Most often yellow but Dollgoldi can be shades of green and even very brown.



I agree with the others. If it was Dollgoldi, it would not have the netting design on the petals. Paph. armeniacum does not have any markings on the petals of course and roth has stripes, not netting. However, malipoense does have a netting design on the petals. I'd like to see a photo of the staminode sheild.

I just did a search for Harold Koopowitz on this forum and found a number of photos that have been posted here. There is no doubt in my mind that this is HK, not Dollgoldi. I've seen Dollgoldis with strong stripe colour from the roth; but, the background colour is always bright yellow, not green. Also, check out these photos of HK: http://http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16123&highlight=Harold+Koopowitz


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## JeanLux (May 11, 2011)

St. Swithin x armeniacum? Nice anyway!!! Jean


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## SlipperKing (May 11, 2011)

Double check with your source because I think others are correct, HK BUT A nice HK!


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## Bolero (May 11, 2011)

Fast becoming my favourite hybrid, I have a seedling tray full of these and cannot wait for the day when they finally flower.

Thanks for sharing.


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## Shiva (May 11, 2011)

I agree with JohnM. This is a HK, and one I'd like to have.


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## Leo_5313 (May 11, 2011)

Hi everyone, 
Thanks for the information. I have been wondering myself if this is a Dollgoldi. I would be extermely happy if this is a HK but the label says Dollgoldi!


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## gonewild (May 11, 2011)

John M said:


> I agree with the others. If it was Dollgoldi, it would not have the netting design on the petals. Paph. armeniacum does not have any markings on the petals of course and roth has stripes, not netting. However, malipoense does have a netting design on the petals. I'd like to see a photo of the staminode sheild.




I would certainly not say that it is not an HK. But it is consistent with some Dollgoldi I have seen bloom.

Here is a pic of one Dollgoldi and you can see that it does have a type of "netting" in the petals.


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## gonewild (May 11, 2011)

Here's two Dollgoldi siblings blooming at the same time....

Normal





Green with extra heavy stripes and different staminoid but they definately came from the same flask.
And the foliage was the same. Flower size about the same.


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## KyushuCalanthe (May 11, 2011)

Lance, Ooooo....Ahhh..... :clap:

Leo, I'd stick with the Dollgoldi name. Every HK I've seen was green.


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## toddybear (May 11, 2011)

Wonderful!


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## John M (May 11, 2011)

You know Lance, assuming your information is correct, you've given me lots to ponder. Before this, of the two clones you've posted, I wouldn't dispute the validity of the more yellow one; but, I would dispute the more green one. Yet, you say that thay came from the same capsule. So (assuming that is correct), there seems to be far more variety in this grex than I had realized. I wonder if the capule that the two examples you show was the result of a selfing of Dollgoldi or from crossing armeniacum x roth? If it was from a selfing of Dollgoldi, there would be far more variety in the offspring. Still, where does that green colour come from? Hmmm?

I had a look at the photos of my Dollgoldi that I posted on ST last year and found that even my flowers did have some netting in the petals. I'd forgotten that and remembered the bright yellow colour more. Now, you've made me want to buy at least one flask of Dollgoldi and one of HK and grow them all out to bloom and compare! There definitely is more investigation needed here....at least for me. 

In light of the information you've provided, the flower at the beginning of this thead could very well be Dollgoldi. I must look closely at the markings on roth petals sometime. I guess the netting design comes from small markings on roth petals that are not so evident on the roth; but, come out in the hybrid Dollgoldi. Of course, all of this is assuming that the armeniacum used to make the Dollgoldi of this thead was in fact, a true armeniacum. If it was Norito Hasegawa (which looks like a "butch" armeniacum; but, with netting on the petals and green colour in it's genes), that would make sense, considering the "look" of the flower on page 1.

I'd like to learn what others who have bloomed Dollgoldis have to say....


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## gonewild (May 12, 2011)

John M said:


> You know Lance, assuming your information is correct, you've given me lots to ponder. Before this, of the two clones you've posted, I wouldn't dispute the validity of the more yellow one; but, I would dispute the more green one. Yet, you say that thay came from the same capsule.
> 
> Well I said they came from the same "flask". We have to assume that they came from the same capsule. In all fairness to 100% accuracy is it possible that a few seeds hitch hiked into the flask as stow-aways? I highly doubt it but anything is possible.
> 
> ...


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## gonewild (May 12, 2011)

Sorry if this hijacks your thread Leo but it is all evidence as to the true id of your clone.

Here is a pic of P.armeniacum 'Oso Grande' FCC/AOS. This was the original clone used to make the original Dollgoldi cross. 
This picture is a scan from an old slide so the image quality is a bit faded. 
No "netting" but the tiny pigment spots may have come out that way in the hybrid.






Just for fun I found this scan of the old faded slide when Dollgoldi made it's appearance. That's all one plant.


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## NYEric (May 12, 2011)

When you leave the country send these plants to me for safe-keeping, thanks!


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## gonewild (May 12, 2011)

NYEric said:


> When you leave the country send these plants to me for safe-keeping, thanks!



They expatriated a long time ago. ity:


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## gonewild (May 12, 2011)

OK, final piece of evidence I have to submit to the Defense...

This is a CU of roth petal.
Here we can see that the pigment lines are actually made up of horizontal connected "dots". On the petal edges the dots are actually connected vertically and the vertical connection could be the underlying "netting" in Dollgoldi. 

So can roth be the genetic source of the netting?
What does the jury say?


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## John M (May 12, 2011)

gonewild said:


> What does the jury say?



I need a nap! LOL! 

Thanks for all the info and replies. Unfortunately, I'm no further ahead on a decision. There seem to be a lot of possibilities to consider and now, I just don't know which ones are the most valid.


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## Leo_5313 (May 13, 2011)

Hmmm....here are the recent pics for this bloom- it gets slightly yellower as the bloom gets older.


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## jtrmd (May 13, 2011)

Very nice!!


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## NYEric (May 13, 2011)

gonewild said:


> They expatriated a long time ago. ity:


Another National treasure lost! :sob:


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## Howzat (May 14, 2011)

I have flowered my Dolgoldi from the flask I bought from Dr. Tanaka but they were certainly yellow. The Paphiopedilum 4 Taiwan book has a cover photo of Dolgoli and there are a few Dolgoldi's in it and they are all yellow. Lance's 2nd photo is a green Dolgoldi, which I have never seen before. But this has different shape from Leo's photo, and it is closer in shape with any Dolgoldi's. I still think Leo's Dolgoldi is Harold Koopowitz, with narrower petals. No matter what, it is still a nice flower.


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## emydura (May 14, 2011)

Nice.

It is pretty yellow for a Harold Koopowitz. I'm happy with Dollgoldii. If that is what the label says than that is what it most likely is. It may be slightly different from your average Dollgoldii but there are no features in that flower that clearly prove that it cannot be a Dollgoldii. You do get genetic variation, even in a primary hybrid. The main evidence is the label.

David


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