# P. lowii & wardii seed size



## Mrs. Paph (Mar 18, 2007)

I recently flasked my first batch of Paph seeds (3/5/07), and all seems to be going well - no contamination in the 6 mother flasks - except that the lowii seed was, and still is, substantially smaller than the wardii. Going by mature plant size, this seems a bit backward to me, but I haven't had the chance to deal w/ seed before. The embryos in the wardii seeds have already grown to easily visible dark spots in the middle of the seeds  , but there's still no change in the much smaller lowii seeds. I'm a bit worried that there aren't any embryos... Any thoughts? Or maybe seed is small enough that no one would have noticed a size difference if they didn't flask both in the same evening  

~Miss Paph


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## Rick (Mar 18, 2007)

Seeds of all the Barbatas (wardii, sukhakulii, calosum, etc.) are about the biggest of the paph seeds I've seen so far. They have long filaments on either end, and are quiet fluffy. It does seem that the actual embryo is a smaller proportion of the whole seed compared to lowii though. Lowii seed is smaller and more "granular".

I've been sending all my seed to Troy Meyers, and typically germination begins somewhere between 1 and 2 months (but sometimes longer). He also germinates them in the dark.

I usually check my seed under the microscope for embryos before sending it out. The technique is to add a drop of xylene to the seed on the slide, add a cover slip, and vacume down the seed to get the air out of the seed case. This makes the embryos more visible.


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## gonewild (Mar 18, 2007)

Miss Paphiopedilum said:


> I recently flasked my first batch of Paph seeds (3/5/07), and all seems to be going well - no contamination in the 6 mother flasks - except that the lowii seed was, and still is, substantially smaller than the wardii. Going by mature plant size, this seems a bit backward to me, but I haven't had the chance to deal w/ seed before. The embryos in the wardii seeds have already grown to easily visible dark spots in the middle of the seeds  , but there's still no change in the much smaller lowii seeds. I'm a bit worried that there aren't any embryos... Any thoughts? Or maybe seed is small enough that no one would have noticed a size difference if they didn't flask both in the same evening
> 
> ~Miss Paph



:rollhappy: 

I can't see the seed much less the embryo! But I do know some species sit still forever before the germination process starts.


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## gore42 (Mar 18, 2007)

I made hayanldianum species and hybrid flasks this winter, and both took about 6 weeks to germinate (in the dark for the first 3 weeks). They're not lowii, but they're closely related so I'd expect something similar from lowii. They all germinated pretty quickly, though, once they started.

- Matt


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## Mrs. Paph (Mar 18, 2007)

Awesome, Thanks Rick. That's exactly what I'd say I observed - wardii w/ filaments and lowii less elongated, just a little 'fleck'. Hopefully the seed is viable and it's just a matter of time. I'm thoroughly impressed that there's a visible difference in the wardii seed already. 
(I got the seed from the Orchid Seed Exchange, and I think they try to check seed for embryos if they have time, but this wasn't labelled as having been checked. I could have probably checked at work, but I hated to impose, since I was already borrowing the use of the autoclave )
~Miss Paph


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## Mrs. Paph (Mar 20, 2007)

Hey Matt, 
and anybody else sowing seed too - how did you arrive at three weeks as the amount of time to keep the flasks out of the light? Mine are in the dark now, but I must confess I really wasn't sure when to put them out under my lights, but now would be a good time to figure that out!


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## paphjoint (Mar 21, 2007)

It's has been suggested that paph seeds germinate better in the dark than under light - while this might be true for some speceis it migh not be the case for all, whereas to how long they should be kept in the dark, well it seems that a 4 to 8 week dark out period is commonly used.


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## gore42 (Mar 21, 2007)

I don't actually remember where I got the specific time duration... someone told me to keep them in the dark for a few weeks, so I tried 3 weeks, and it works well for me. To be honest, though, I don't keep them strictly dark... I keep them in very subdued light during the day.

It's been tricky to find reliable data for Paph seed germination, so I'm mostly experimenting as I go along.... luckily with pretty good results so far 

- Matt


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## Rick (Mar 24, 2007)

I've sent a wide range of Paph species seed to Troy Meyers (but only one very small batch of a parvi species, which hasn't done anything good). Provided that no contamination was observed everything seems to be germinating between one - two months. If a "rescue" of a contaminated flasking is involved they can go for several months before germination.

Seed storage also seems to go well, as he has pulled seed out of storage for stuff I harvested over a year prior and got germination in the usual time frame.


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## morita_yuban (May 22, 2007)

Care to share the medium formula?


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## littlefrog (May 22, 2007)

Back in the day... I used to germinate paphs in my lab, on a shelf above one of my flasking hoods. It wasn't dark, but it wasn't bright either. I've seen well upwards of six months to first germination.

No, I still don't have my flasking lab set up... Too much to do outside.


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