# delenatii var. dunkel hybrids



## paphreek (May 17, 2008)

Has anyone seen any traditional delenatii hybrids done with delenatii var. dunkel? 

Any conjecture on what difference there might be, when compared to standard delenatii hybrids? I'm considering Vanda Pearman (bellatulum x delenatii) in the hopes of making a darker than average flower. I'm also considering a remake of Deperle, using primulinum fma. purpurescens, or glaucophyllum to remake Delophyllum. Comments?


----------



## SlipperKing (May 18, 2008)

paphreek said:


> Has anyone seen any traditional delenatii hybrids done with delenatii var. dunkel?
> 
> Any conjecture on what difference there might be, when compared to standard delenatii hybrids? I'm considering Vanda Pearman (bellatulum x delenatii) in the hopes of making a darker than average flower. I'm also considering a remake of Deperle, using primulinum fma. purpurescens, or glaucophyllum to remake Delophyllum. Comments?



Haven't seen any to date but I have been waiting for them. I think the vast majority of dunkel hybrids will be in high demand. Esp if the first ones shown are super.


----------



## Frederick (May 18, 2008)

*Even better*

a new (roths x dele dunkel) and dunkel x micranthum. The recent trend towards washed-out colours is deplorable. We need strong, vibrant colours. 
Let's hope for the best
F.


----------



## paphreek (May 18, 2008)

Well, I went ahead and pollinated my bellatulum with the var dunkel. I was going to use pollen from my larger delenatii 'Deerwood' AM/AOS, but I just got a few seedlings of the same cross from another grower, using the 'Deerwood' cultivar and one of their excellent bellatulums. This made it easier to try the riskier var. dunkel cross. 

As for the roth cross, Delrosi, I've heard that it works better using the delenatii as the parent. I may try this cross on the next blooming as the var dunkel is still a young plant and also is scheduled to be repotted. I do have a roth in bloom, but I'm not impressed with the flower quality. 











The color is OK, the dorsal is relatively flat and upright, but the petals leave much to be desired.


----------



## Candace (May 18, 2008)

I'd be curious to see if the dunkel will make the progeny blooms smaller. Adding color is great, but I'm if decrease in size is the cost... But I say it's surely worth a few crosses.


----------



## Roth (May 18, 2008)

Some dunkel original plants have very large flowers with perfect shape, so flower size is not a concern. However, I had micranthum x dunkel, delenatii x var. dunkel and vietnamense x dunkel, I bloomed a few, and all turned out to have a really standard flower. By the way, delenatii x delenatii dunkel gives standard delenatii, there is not a hint of purple in the leaves, and the flowers are those of a normal delenatii. Maybe the "dunkel" is carried out by the mitochondrial DNA, therefore it would be fine to use dunkel as the pot parent.


----------



## Candace (May 18, 2008)

> Some dunkel original plants have very large flowers with perfect shape, so flower size is not a concern.



I've never seen a dunkel posted that wasn't smaller than average delenatii size.


----------



## Roth (May 19, 2008)

Candace said:


> I've never seen a dunkel posted that wasn't smaller than average delenatii size.



I will find back the pics of the good dunkel. Delenatii dunkel can have very large flowers, up to 9.5-10 cm, it depends on the individual plants. Most of the dunkel blooming today are coming from the first dunkel ever found, which was far from being a good one. Some are from the second dunkel ( I did release quite a few when I was in France...), and now there are some released here and there from different motherplants. A couple have absolutely perfectly shaped flowers.

Anyway, I have been really disappointed with the hybrids, heavily to say the least. In fact, I expected a possible disappointment after deflasking, because none of the progeny had the purple margin. But it was far from sure ( I have some callosum "vinicolor", progeny of JAC that have definitely a pure green leaf base, but very dark flowers), so I waited and bloomed some.

Only 2 dunkel together, or the selfings, gave 100% of the progeny with purple margin. This means too that the potential as a parent is close to 0. Of course F2 may be dunkel, or by using the dunkel parent as a capsule parent it may be interesting, but frankly I doubt it. I have 1 delenatii that has a nearly dunkel flower, but normal leaves too, that one proved to be an outstanding parents. The micranthum x delenatii dunkel surprisingly had quite pale flowers.

I just found quickly a picture of a delenatii dunkel with the flower measurement, nearly 8 cm:

http://orchidophiles.qc.ca/images/T05.jpg


----------



## NYEric (May 19, 2008)

Oh I so do love all these posts about plants that are next to impossible to get here!


----------



## benilaca (May 31, 2008)

*dunkel*

dunkel are smaller than typo = decrease hybrid size.
" have deep red pouch = intensify pouch color.
" have cleaner white = petals will be whitter > + or - ?!?!
" have oxblood color on under leaves w/ darker making.
dunkel + primulinum = poor color / dirty looking Deperly, only 2 > 3 flowers, where in typo, upto 7 flowers per spike, been done.

some said that dunkel = Ho Chi Minh crossed back to delenatii; but saw this cross last year in San Fran. the second blooming was stupendous! 2 blooms, both 11.5 cm spread on a huge plant 30 cm w/ 5 cm leaf width! needless to say that it quite defferred from any dunkel! 
may improving / inline breeding dunkel is the first step to glory!?!?
1. looking to breed darker delenatii X? have you consider vietnamiense and its X ?
2. primulinum is mostly use to wash out color not darken it. one used to think that put together a good colored parent w/ alba or album will improve marking & color as shown in Cattleya; it prove to be quite opposite in slipper; been done! check out [viet. X moquet.], [viet. X victoria-regina], larger & deeper pink & green Deperle type.
3. hangianum X vietnamiense = perhap is the color scheme you're looking for?
:rollhappy:


----------



## NYEric (Jun 1, 2008)

In-Charm catalog has photo of the latter, Paph Anni Fuchs. It's pale green w/ light pink shades.


----------

