# C. (S.) coccinea 'Little Devil' AM



## rdlsreno (Dec 8, 2012)

One of my C. (S.) coccinea got an AM (82 pts) last Wednesday. It has three spikes with two flower each. Flower has a NS of 6.3 cm.

Ramon 

C. coccinea 'Little Devil' AM


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## fibre (Dec 8, 2012)

Congratulations! What an exceptionel flower!


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## gonewild (Dec 8, 2012)

Beauty!


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## Erythrone (Dec 8, 2012)

very nice!!!

Is it a 4N plant?


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## gonewild (Dec 8, 2012)

Erythrone said:


> very nice!!!
> 
> Is it a 4N plant?



Yes 4N.......Nice Nice Nice Nice


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## e-spice (Dec 8, 2012)

That is exceptionally beautiful. Great job bro.


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## Hera (Dec 8, 2012)

Nice show!


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## cnycharles (Dec 8, 2012)

very nice. for controversy (not involving ramon  ), do people here think that plants that are known to be 4n should be judged against other same species or hybrids known to be 2n? I know that most plants are not known as to their chromosome counts, i'm just looking for people's opinions where in a perfect world where all counts were known, should plants with different counts/same name be judged only against others of the same chro. counts?

one thought is that once some 4n plants are found/produced/awarded, then judges would never give an award to a 2n plant, as they are just often not as solid/spectacular/colorful?


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## gonewild (Dec 8, 2012)

cnycharles said:


> very nice. for controversy (not involving ramon  ), do people here think that plants that are known to be 4n should be judged against other same species or hybrids known to be 2n? I know that most plants are not known as to their chromosome counts, i'm just looking for people's opinions where in a perfect world where all counts were known, should plants with different counts/same name be judged only against others of the same chro. counts?
> 
> one thought is that once some 4n plants are found/produced/awarded, then judges would never give an award to a 2n plant, as they are just often not as solid/spectacular/colorful?



If the 4n occurs naturally then it should be judged against the natural species. But if the 4n is artificially created it should be judged in a separate class. I guess it is somewhat like performance enhancing drugs in sports.


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## gonewild (Dec 8, 2012)

gonewild said:


> Yes 4N.......Nice Nice Nice Nice



I wrote that as humor, don't take it as fact about the chromo count.


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## KyushuCalanthe (Dec 8, 2012)

Stunning doesn't adequately describe this beauty.



gonewild said:


> If the 4n occurs naturally then it should be judged against the natural species. But if the 4n is artificially created it should be judged in a separate class. I guess it is somewhat like performance enhancing drugs in sports.



Good idea! Maybe we should do that with sports as well. For example, hold the DRUF (Drug Free) Tour de France in June and the JUP (Juiced Up) Tour in July.


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## NYEric (Dec 8, 2012)

Plants should be judged against the standard. Can you imagine having to guess a plant's ploidy as you judge!!?
BTW Ramon, congrats! Another under the table discovery!? oke:


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## JeanLux (Dec 9, 2012)

:clap: Beautiful !!! :clap: Bravo !!!! :clap: Jean


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## Ozpaph (Dec 9, 2012)

That is magnificent and a well earned award.
Can you tell us how you grow it? It seems potted and not mounted?
Thanks


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## JeanLux (Dec 9, 2012)

Ozpaph said:


> That is magnificent and a well earned award.
> Can you tell us how you grow it? It seems potted and not mounted?
> Thanks



That's really a good question from my point of view!!! I killed at least 6-8 of them already, no question about bringing them to bloom!!! Jean


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## rdlsreno (Dec 9, 2012)

JeanLux said:


> That's really a good question from my point of view!!! I killed at least 6-8 of them already, no question about bringing them to bloom!!! Jean





Ozpaph said:


> That is magnificent and a well earned award.
> Can you tell us how you grow it? It seems potted and not mounted?
> Thanks



I grow it in my friends green house in CA. Potted in pure white NZ moss in clay pots. With no heating, subdued bright light which keeps it cool, and good clean water (5.5 PH). His place is perfect where the cool moist mist from the pacific rolls in every morning. This makes my car mileage goes through the roof! 

Ramon


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## monocotman (Dec 9, 2012)

*coccinea 4n*

Lovely flower and well deserved award.
Mine is at the same stage with several flowers but they vary quite a bit in size - maybe the plant isn't mature enough.
Jean - this new strain of tetraploid coccineas is much easier to grow and way more vigorous than the original 2n species.
Mine grows well on the kitchen windowsill. It is a straight forward as a mini catt hybrid.
Popow has some for sale.
Regards,
David


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## JeanLux (Dec 9, 2012)

monocotman said:


> ...
> Mine is at the same stage with several flowers but they vary quite a bit in size - maybe the plant isn't mature enough.
> Jean - this new strain of tetraploid coccineas is much easier to grow and way more vigorous than the original 2n species.
> Mine grows well on the kitchen windowsill. It is a straight forward as a mini catt hybrid.
> ...



I got my my latest 'try' from Popow a month ago, so wait and see! (It is mounted, about 20 growths, 5 of them new, but not one single stem showing that the plant had already flowered  ) Jean


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## monocotman (Dec 9, 2012)

*coccinea*

Jean,
I saw a plant for sale like that on ebay. Good luck -it was pretty impressive.
On the other hand - they now have a 4n coccinea for sale as well!
maybe try them both as an experiment?
Regards,
David


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## cnycharles (Dec 9, 2012)

rdlsreno said:


> His place is perfect where the cool moist mist from the pacific rolls in every morning.



:wink: ah, cheating! when i tried to expose my early orchids to 'rolling mists' in upstate ny, it was a disaster. fog would start like 3am and then stick around until 10am and some things started rotting, including the only viable flower spike i've had on a laelia speciosa which rotted off where it was coming out of the leaves. i'll bet there are tons of orchids that love the rolling mists in your area!


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## Paph_LdyMacBeth (Dec 9, 2012)

Wow! Spectacular!!

Sent from my BlackBerry 9300 using Tapatalk


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## Drorchid (Feb 6, 2013)

cnycharles said:


> very nice. for controversy (not involving ramon  ), do people here think that plants that are known to be 4n should be judged against other same species or hybrids known to be 2n? I know that most plants are not known as to their chromosome counts, i'm just looking for people's opinions where in a perfect world where all counts were known, should plants with different counts/same name be judged only against others of the same chro. counts?
> 
> one thought is that once some 4n plants are found/produced/awarded, then judges would never give an award to a 2n plant, as they are just often not as solid/spectacular/colorful?



I think they should all be judged within one class. Like mentioned earlier, it will be too difficult to determine the ploidy level during judging if it is unknown. Also there would be too many classes, one for diploids, one for tetraploids, one for triploids, and what does one do with the aneuploids, should plants that have one extra chromosome go in the same class with plants that have two extra chromosomes or are missing a chromosome or should they all go in separate classes?

It is true that once (natural or artificial) tetraploids get awarded, it is harder to give awards to regular diploids, but I think it just raises the bar... Also size only counts for so many points, and if you compare say a diploid Phal. schillleriana with a tetraploid Phal. schilleriana, the tetraploid definately will have larger flowers, but the overal show of the diploid may be much larger, as it will have a much bigger flower count, so based on that it still could get an award.

Robert


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## tomkalina (Feb 6, 2013)

Since not everyone has access (or can afford) tetraploid species, maybe we need to have a "genetically engineered" vs. "non-genetically engineered" designation somewhere in the AOS judging point scales?


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## goldenrose (Feb 6, 2013)

Great lookin' devil! Congrats!


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## biothanasis (Feb 6, 2013)

Stiking colour!!!


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## paphreek (Feb 6, 2013)

tomkalina said:


> Since not everyone has access (or can afford) tetraploid species, maybe we need to have a "genetically engineered" vs. "non-genetically engineered" designation somewhere in the AOS judging point scales?



That might well be a more important issue if gene splicing becomes cheap and easy enough to make it economically feasible.


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## rdlsreno (Feb 10, 2013)

NYEric said:


> Plants should be judged against the standard. Can you imagine having to guess a plant's ploidy as you judge!!?
> BTW Ramon, congrats! Another under the table discovery!? oke:



HE HE HE!

Ramon


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## shadytrake (May 22, 2013)

This is an exceptional bloom and color! Congrats!


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