# Paph usitanum (= parnatanum?)



## JeanLux (Dec 25, 2008)

I bought this plant in febr. 2007 as usitanum from Roellke. Others would say, it is parnatanum: whatever, this is its first bloom, starting to open more than 1 week ago. I hope it will open some more ! Jean


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## ORG (Dec 25, 2008)

It is not Paph. parnatanum. It is a hybrid but which?

Here you can find some pictures which I placed there

http://www.orchid.or.jp/orchid/people/tanaka/orchid/org/newpaph9.html

Best greetings

Olaf


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## Hakone (Dec 25, 2008)

very nice, unusually, thanks


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## GuRu (Dec 25, 2008)

ORG said:


> ..It is not Paph. parnatanum. It is a hybrid but which?...


Sorry for the Christmas disappointment but that's what I intended to say. In my eyes one parent is from the Paph appletonianum/bulleanum complexe. 
Olaf beat me while I was searching for a good photo of Paph parnatanum (usitanum). You can find it here http://www.orchid-nord.com/p_page/Paphiopedilum_usitanum/paph_usit.htm

Best regards from sunny Germany, rudolf


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## ORG (Dec 25, 2008)

Dear Rudolph,
I agree with you, it is an _appletonianum_-hybrid.

With the name it is very clear.
William Cavestro was faster in the publishing of his description with the name *Paph. parnatanum*.
Our description was ready half an year before, but we had difficulties with our journal and so the description as *Paph. usitanum * comes too late.
So the name _Paph. parntanum_ is now the official name, usitanum only a synonym.

Best greetings

Olaf


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## JeanLux (Dec 25, 2008)

GuRu said:


> Sorry for the Christmas disappointment but that's what I intended to say. In my eyes one parent is from the Paph appletonianum/bulleanum complexe....




Thanks Rudolf, thanks Olaf!! It is not really a disappointment; I just started to like this somewhat fragile flower !

But it is unfortunately only another example that one cannot rely on tags for plant identif.! Here, I had precisely ordered a paph. usitanum / parnatanum!!! Jean


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## Hakone (Dec 25, 2008)

ORG said:


> Dear Rudolph,
> I agree with you, it is an _appletonianum_-hybrid.
> 
> With the name it is very clear.
> ...



Hello Olaf and Rudolf,
Appletonianum occurs from Viet Nam, Loas and Thailand. Parnatanum washes however in Philippine. As comes the Pollen from the Appletonianum to Philippine?. I believe rather a Argus variant


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## ORG (Dec 25, 2008)

Dear Hakone, 
I think it was not a natural hybrid. Perhaps there was only a mistake in the labeling of the flask and then of the seedlings.

Best greetings

Olaf


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## SlipperFan (Dec 25, 2008)

...or the tags got mixed up somehow.


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## NYEric (Dec 25, 2008)

Good stuff, sorry it's not a parnatum/usitanum JeanLuxx.


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## SlipperKing (Dec 26, 2008)

Jean it may turnout to be cervenianum(sp?) and a good one if so. Lets see when the flower matures.


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## GuRu (Dec 26, 2008)

SlipperKing said:


> Jean it may turnout to be cervenianum(sp?) and a good one if so. Lets see when the flower matures.



The majority of taxonomists don't accept P. cerveranum as good species and therefore the name P. cerveranum is synonym to P. appletonianum. 
But furthermore the colouration of the striped dorsal and the striking hairy warts at the upper edge of the petals remind me to a ppletonianum/bulleanum hybrid (perhaps with P. callosum).
Best regards from Germany, rudolf


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## slippertalker (Dec 26, 2008)

My guess is that the other parent is probably Paph superbiens or Paph ciliolare.


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## ORG (Dec 26, 2008)

The cross with callosum would be aPaph. Siamense. It is different with this plant. It is also not similar to the narural hybrid Paph. x mattesii, the cross between bullenianum and barbatum. 
It could be a cross with superbiens or ciliolare. The crosses of appletonianum, bullenianum and cerveranum are very similar.

Best greetings

Olaf


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## JeanLux (Dec 27, 2008)

SlipperKing said:


> Jean it may turnout to be cervenianum(sp?) and a good one if so. Lets see when the flower matures.



Unfortunately, it looks as if the flower matured much too fast, the petals totally recurved. I think to cut off the spike and give the plant another chance!?

thanks for the possible ids!!! 

Jean


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## myxodex (Dec 27, 2008)

I like this one whatever it is. I did take a photo of a plant at the London Orchid Show in March this year that is similar to yours and was also labelled P. usitanum ... can't remember who's display it was though.


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## Sangii (Dec 27, 2008)

nice paph anyway Jean


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## paphjoint (Dec 27, 2008)

hennisianum hybrid !


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## JeanLux (Dec 28, 2008)

myxodex said:


> I like this one whatever it is. I did take a photo of a plant at the London Orchid Show in March this year that is similar to yours and was also labelled *P. usitanum *... can't remember who's display it was though.



Thanks a lot for that pict.!! this flower is nearer to mine than to the real parnatanum that olaf and rudolf showed us!! Maybe I should contact lutz roellke about possible origin! Jean


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## SlipperKing (Dec 28, 2008)

Jean it looks like it's a ciliolare hybrid or curtisii hybrid. Is it a large flower?


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## Rick (Dec 28, 2008)

paphjoint said:


> hennisianum hybrid !



I was thinking this too with the petal reflex, and the dorsal striping.


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## Bodil (Jan 2, 2009)

I have had a Paph. parnatanum a few years now. But when I looked on the leaves it dosn´t agree with what Lance A Birk writes about the parnatanum. My plant is in bud, so the future will till me more.


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## emydura (Jan 2, 2009)

I agree with a couple of views above. Assuming it is a primary nybrid, my guess is appletonianum x superbiens.

David


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## Ayreon (Jan 2, 2009)

I also have an usitanum bought from Röllke that ended up just like yours. I really like the flower, but it's definitely not what I expected.


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## JeanLux (Jan 3, 2009)

Ayreon said:


> I also have an usitanum bought from Röllke that ended up just like yours. I really like the flower, but it's definitely not what I expected.



oh thanks; this does very much confirm that the tags where mixed up at the nursery! Jean


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## JeanLux (Jan 3, 2009)

SlipperKing said:


> Jean it looks like it's a ciliolare hybrid or curtisii hybrid. *Is it a large flower*?



not just 10cm ns Rick! Jean


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## Bodil (Feb 11, 2009)

JeanLux said:


> Unfortunately, it looks as if the flower matured much too fast, the petals totally recurved. I think to cut off the spike and give the plant another chance!?
> 
> thanks for the possible ids!!!
> 
> Jean



It´s flexing the petals like urbanianum


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## ORG (Nov 5, 2012)

The plant from JeanLux has nothing to do with the true _Paph. parnatanum_. Just now only few plants of this species, which I described a bit late as *Paph. usitanum*, are in culture.
Here some pictures of two plants of this species:






















Best greetings

Olaf


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## wjs2nd (Nov 5, 2012)

Whatever it is, it's very nice. Hope you can find out.


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## Ditto (Nov 5, 2012)

Jun Golamco 
says about usitanum and parnatum that it is BS. 

I'm only citing him:rollhappy:


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## dodidoki (Nov 5, 2012)

Here is mine pseudo-parnatatum:
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19122&highlight=usitanum

I think so that it is something bullenianum hybrid.


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## Roth (Nov 5, 2012)

I have seen large batches of parnatanum twice, one in Thailand, and another time in Indonesia at Parnata farm (maybe 3000 or 4000 clumps, it was absolutely massive, came from the Philippines weeks before). There has been selfings sold several years ago that turned out to be true to the species in Germany ( not those ones obviously), it was traded by the O'Javier family, and the first batch was said to be ciliolare. They collected a big stockpile of them, then they disappeared from everywhere, but it is clearly a valid species/variety.


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## Rick (Nov 6, 2012)

JeanLux said:


> Thanks a lot for that pict.!! this flower is nearer to mine than to the real parnatanum that olaf and rudolf showed us!! Maybe I should contact lutz roellke about possible origin! Jean



I would for sure since it looks like the confusion is spreading far and wide on the internet and in greenhouses.


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## reivilos (Nov 6, 2012)

Rick said:


> I would for sure since it looks like the confusion is spreading far and wide on the internet and in greenhouses.


I think Jay should just dump the picture on orchidspecies as the website is one of the top results for the plant.


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## SlipperFan (Nov 6, 2012)

reivilos said:


> I think Jay should just dump the picture on orchidspecies as the website is one of the top results for the plant.



Tell him, and point him to this thread.


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## troy (Aug 16, 2014)

I have never heard of this species, where did it come from?


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## troy (Aug 16, 2014)

I didn't read thread before I spoke lol..


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