# All Around Medium for Paphs?



## Cklinger (Feb 26, 2019)

About a year ago I started my collection, which is still small. I'll list out what Paphs and Phrags I currently have, but I have been thinking about just preparing potting medium for my Paphs when I'll eventually need to repot them. Is there a good combination of components that could suit "most" paphs?

For Paphs I have...
Paph. hirsutissimum
Paph. helenae
Paph. primulinum flavum
Paph. vogue wonder
Paph. woluwense

I only have a couple Phrags which are...
Phrag. longueville
Phrag. Franz Glanz

I also have a tank containing around 15 orchids

Any information is appreciated, I always enjoy learning more about paphs and phrags!


----------



## masaccio (Feb 26, 2019)

I can't wait to see some of the replies to your question. I think the traditional school goes for a seedling-grade bark mix (bark, sponge rock and charcoal). I'm on the verge of ordering a bag, commonly available. I personally like sphagnum as a general purpose potting medium. I've been trying to understand why it isn't more popular. It dries out more evenly than bark mixes, and there is a big difference between freshly watered sphagnum and sphagnum even one day later, so there's less guess-work in watering. I think one of the reasons sphagnum isn't more popular is that it's not as easy to pot with. I saw a photo today (on this forum) of a paph. with a gorgeous root system, and I thought to myself, what would it be like to repot that plant in sphag. The nice thing about a small-grade bark mix is that you can mostly just pour it around the roots and with a little help, it settles itself. And really nice paph pots are on little legs that allow air to enter from underneath to keep the bottom from being too wet while the rest of the plant requires water. Another approach to a paph mix is a medium grade mix that allows a lot of air into the pot. But I've found that this requires frequent watering, like every two days.


----------



## troy (Feb 26, 2019)

This is defenitely open to dispute, I use non organic potting mix except for rocks, pumus, and clay balls, that excludes breakdown of medium


----------



## Cklinger (Feb 27, 2019)

masaccio said:


> I can't wait to see some of the replies to your question. I think the traditional school goes for a seedling-grade bark mix (bark, sponge rock and charcoal). I'm on the verge of ordering a bag, commonly available. I personally like sphagnum as a general purpose potting medium. I've been trying to understand why it isn't more popular. It dries out more evenly than bark mixes, and there is a big difference between freshly watered sphagnum and sphagnum even one day later, so there's less guess-work in watering. I think one of the reasons sphagnum isn't more popular is that it's not as easy to pot with. I saw a photo today (on this forum) of a paph. with a gorgeous root system, and I thought to myself, what would it be like to repot that plant in sphag. The nice thing about a small-grade bark mix is that you can mostly just pour it around the roots and with a little help, it settles itself. And really nice paph pots are on little legs that allow air to enter from underneath to keep the bottom from being too wet while the rest of the plant requires water. Another approach to a paph mix is a medium grade mix that allows a lot of air into the pot. But I've found that this requires frequent watering, like every two days.



The only time I use sphagnum is when I mount an orchid or pot Bulbophyllums. I like using it, however I do not know how much to use if I were to repot a Paph. with it. How do you know when to water next when you use a combination of sphagnum and bark? Also I'm interested in these kind of pots your talking about! Most of the Paphs I have are in Rand's Aircone pots which don't have legs but have a cone in the center to allow some airflow in.

I have half bag of seedling grade bark as well as a bag of perlite. When receiving the Paph. hirsutissimum I noticed that there is charcoal as well as crushed shells. If anyone has used charcoal and shells along with perlite and bark, what are your ratios?


----------



## musa (Feb 27, 2019)

Sphagnum doesen't go along with my watering habits, so I grow all my paphs in medium (12-18mm) and coarse (18-25mm) Orchiata depending on the pot size without any other components, except a drainage of limestone - or granit gravel on the bottom of the pot. I have to water twice a week.

Michael


----------



## masaccio (Feb 27, 2019)

musa said:


> Sphagnum doesen't go along with my watering habits, so I grow all my paphs in medium (12-18mm) and coarse (18-25mm) Orchiata depending on the pot size without any other components, except a drainage of limestone - or granit gravel on the bottom of the pot. I have to water twice a week.
> 
> Michael


Michael, would you mind sharing where and how you grow your paphs? Greenhouse or in your house? Artificial lights or natural light? Relative humidity? Thanks!


----------



## Ray (Feb 27, 2019)

While it may be OK for comparing notes, how one person grows their plants has no bearing on how another should.

Consider the points written *HERE*.


----------



## Ray (Feb 27, 2019)

Duplicate deleted


----------



## NYEric (Feb 27, 2019)

While there is no definitive mix I think this combination of mixes works well.
On the bottom the pot, leca expanded clay balls or some hard inorganic media to act as dunnage and keep the organic stuff out of the water we inevitably have at the bottom of our plant trays. The main mix is medium orchiata, coarse perlite and/or leca for air-spaces, and charcoal to filter impurities. On the top I add some sphagnum and diatomite (yes I still have a little) to the mix to keep some moisture.


----------



## Cklinger (Feb 27, 2019)

NYEric said:


> While there is no definitive mix I think this combination of mixes works well.
> On the bottom the pot, leca expanded clay balls or some hard inorganic media to act as dunnage and keep the organic stuff out of the water we inevitably have at the bottom of our plant trays. The main mix is medium orchiata, coarse perlite and/or leca for air-spaces, and charcoal to filter impurities. On the top I add some sphagnum and diatomite (yes I still have a little) to the mix to keep some moisture.



With this combination, how often do you have to water? With the mix mine are in, they need watering around once a week, but this could be because I grow indoors. Does the diatomite keep moisture well? I have not seen it in use so I have no clue. 

I appreciate all of these responses and I am making notes of possibilities that I could try out before I have to repot my Paphs.


----------



## musa (Feb 28, 2019)

Masaccio, I'm growing in my livingroom on the windowsill (south) but mostly on a shelf with a mix of natural and artificial light. Each board has two flourescent tubes (36W, 120cm). The tubes are an additional heating as well. The pots are standing on a grid with water underneth. Humidity is about 40% in Winter (lowest is 25%) in summer it is about 65% (highest 80%). Temperature is always over 20°C In winter the range is 20°C - 33°C, in summer temp is between 24°C and 36°C (last summer was exeptional over 37°C). I grow my orchids with Aroids, which stabilise the humidity a bit by creating a kind of "climapocket in my plant corner.
I fertilize once a week 20-5-10 (~600µS), in between I flush with tab water (~240µ). In general I repot once a year, except the big plants.

Of course Ray is right, that conditions are hardly comparable, because there are so many factors, which one is not even aware of. e.g. I don't need any ventilation because my windows are old and don't fit well so there must be a constant but unrecognizable airflow in my flat, etc...

Michael


----------



## masaccio (Feb 28, 2019)

Ray said:


> While it may be OK for comparing notes, how one person grows their plants has no bearing on how another should.
> 
> Consider the points written *HERE*.



Thanks for the link to this, Ray.


----------



## masaccio (Mar 1, 2019)

NYEric said:


> While there is no definitive mix I think this combination of mixes works well.
> On the bottom the pot, leca expanded clay balls or some hard inorganic media to act as dunnage and keep the organic stuff out of the water we inevitably have at the bottom of our plant trays. The main mix is medium orchiata, coarse perlite and/or leca for air-spaces, and charcoal to filter impurities. On the top I add some sphagnum and diatomite (yes I still have a little) to the mix to keep some moisture.



That's cool. I have some aliflor. I'll try this instead of "peanuts."


----------



## masaccio (Mar 1, 2019)

Cklinger said:


> The only time I use sphagnum is when I mount an orchid or pot Bulbophyllums. I like using it, however I do not know how much to use if I were to repot a Paph. with it. How do you know when to water next when you use a combination of sphagnum and bark? Also I'm interested in these kind of pots your talking about! Most of the Paphs I have are in Rand's Aircone pots which don't have legs but have a cone in the center to allow some airflow in.
> 
> I have half bag of seedling grade bark as well as a bag of perlite. When receiving the Paph. hirsutissimum I noticed that there is charcoal as well as crushed shells. If anyone has used charcoal and shells along with perlite and bark, what are your ratios?



Life is too short to make my own mixesView attachment 14715
. I saw an appealing mix from Quarter Acre and ordered it. Blurb: "This orchid potting mix contains fine fir bark, fine horticultural charcoal, oyster shell, perlite and just a touch of AAA+ New Zealand Sphagnam... all excellent for healthy Paphs & Phrags!" Photo attached.

To help determine watering frequency, especially with bark mixes, I weigh plants on my kitchen scale, in grams, before and after watering, and log the weights on a dedicated page for each plant. Over time, this can be instructive. For plants in bark, there isn't that much weight difference between wet and needing moisture. 35-40 grams, so weighing helps. This, as opposed to sphagnum, a 4" pot of which can increase in weight in excess of 150 grams - much easier to judge as it dries. If properly used, the moss will still percolate out this amount of moisture in a relatively short time (3-4 days), helping to supply immediate humidity to the immediate area as well). I also log watering dates of every plant, and what I watered with. I guess not everyone would enjoy this, but it relieves me from remembering, and avoids putting a plant on an arbitrary schedule instead of giving it what it needs at the time.

If you want to try straight sphagnum: take more dry sphagnum than you think you will need from the bag. Put it in a large bowl. Add water gradually, tossing the sphagnum until it is evenly moist. Squeeze out any excess moisture and fluff it until you have a nice light, damp pile. Pot firmly, in clumps, not layers. A bamboo stake can help where fingers can't reach. I usually wait a day before watering the freshly potted plant. If you're potting a in a large pot, clay works fine. Smaller pots, plastic is best.


----------



## Cklinger (Mar 1, 2019)

masaccio said:


> Life is too short to make my own mixesView attachment 14715
> . I saw an appealing mix from Quarter Acre and ordered it. Blurb: "This orchid potting mix contains fine fir bark, fine horticultural charcoal, oyster shell, perlite and just a touch of AAA+ New Zealand Sphagnam... all excellent for healthy Paphs & Phrags!" Photo attached.
> 
> To help determine watering frequency, especially with bark mixes, I weigh plants on my kitchen scale, in grams, before and after watering, and log the weights on a dedicated page for each plant. Over time, this can be instructive. For plants in bark, there isn't that much weight difference between wet and needing moisture. 35-40 grams, so weighing helps. This, as opposed to sphagnum, a 4" pot of which can increase in weight in excess of 150 grams - much easier to judge as it dries. If properly used, the moss will still percolate out this amount of moisture in a relatively short time (3-4 days), helping to supply immediate humidity to the immediate area as well). I also log watering dates of every plant, and what I watered with. I guess not everyone would enjoy this, but it relieves me from remembering, and avoids putting a plant on an arbitrary schedule instead of giving it what it needs at the time.
> ...



That is an appealing mix! I book marked the page for in case I decide on ordering some. I think it's interesting that you weigh individual plants, it must take quite a while depending on how many plants you have. I usually check the moisture of my paphs every other day by taking out the tag and feeling it. If it's fairly moist I'll leave it, and when its slightly damp/dry I water the plant. The plants usually all need watering at the same time since most of them are potted in the same size pot. 

I am just curious, do you grow in your house or in a greenhouse?


----------



## Cklinger (Mar 1, 2019)

Also, I'm very curious if people have had any mounted paphs. My grandfather told me that at the Umpqua Orchid Society there was a mounted paph being raffled off. That sounded really intriguing but also difficult to care for.


----------



## Junglejewel (Mar 2, 2019)

I've tried just about every media and different combinations and ratios of mixes, and what works best for me, bar none!, for all my Paph's, depending on the species, is a mix of 40-50% small orchiata (classic), 30-40% New Zealand sphagnum moss, and 20% medium perlite #3. The grow sky rockets and they flourish! And this mix last 2-3 years for me before breaking down. And all of mine are in this mix and planted in Rand's air cone pots.


----------



## Cklinger (Mar 2, 2019)

Junglejewel said:


> I've tried just about every media and different combinations and ratios of mixes, and what works best for me, bar none!, for all my Paph's, depending on the species, is a mix of 40-50% small orchiata (classic), 30-40% New Zealand sphagnum moss, and 20% medium perlite #3. The grow sky rockets and they flourish! And this mix last 2-3 years for me before breaking down. And all of mine are in this mix and planted in Rand's air cone pots.



Interesting! Do you find that the sphagnum may keep to much water at times? in other words, what's the indication that they need to be watered?


----------



## masaccio (Mar 2, 2019)

Cklinger said:


> That is an appealing mix! I book marked the page for in case I decide on ordering some. I think it's interesting that you weigh individual plants, it must take quite a while depending on how many plants you have. I usually check the moisture of my paphs every other day by taking out the tag and feeling it. If it's fairly moist I'll leave it, and when its slightly damp/dry I water the plant. The plants usually all need watering at the same time since most of them are potted in the same size pot.
> 
> I am just curious, do you grow in your house or in a greenhouse?



Weighing doesn't take that long. I have my notebook open anyway so I can log other stuff for that plant. And you know, I do all this first thing in the morning, usually before coffee. Theres nothing worse than picking up a plant, putting it down, picking it up, shoving in a skewer yadda yadda when you're just trying to get done. I do some of that other stuff anyway, until I'm sure my baseline is good. I'll definitely try your tag idea, too. Nah, different pots, some clay some plastic, different shapes and sizes all around, different mediums, different light. I have a grow room, which also happens to be where I sleep (notice how I put that!) that luckily has a large picture window with a pretty nice, long ledge, by design. It faces NW, but it lets in a lot of light, supplemented with LED spots. Humidifier keeps that up all the time. Constant gentle fan. Have a second grow room planned so I can make one higher and one lower light without trying to make everybody happy in the same space. The lower light space won't have any natural light and will be mostly a paph garden. If I still want more room, first I'll have my sanity checked, and then I could put a greenhouse 10x16 or something on a stone patio next to the house. I'd probably have to supplement light in there a little bit too, but that could be fun. More control. Probably way too much info. Thanks for asking. It helps me think through things.


----------



## masaccio (Mar 2, 2019)

Junglejewel said:


> I've tried just about every media and different combinations and ratios of mixes, and what works best for me, bar none!, for all my Paph's, depending on the species, is a mix of 40-50% small orchiata (classic), 30-40% New Zealand sphagnum moss, and 20% medium perlite #3. The grow sky rockets and they flourish! And this mix last 2-3 years for me before breaking down. And all of mine are in this mix and planted in Rand's air cone pots.



That makes sense. Sounds great, too. I'm making a permanent note of it. I haven't gotten into orchiata yet, but I did just order some cone pots. By the way, I was reading a random on-line commentary on paph culture. I think it was an Asian vendor. He said he believed that paphs like to be "tight" in their pots, so pot in the smallest pot that everything fits into. Comment?


----------



## Cklinger (Mar 2, 2019)

masaccio said:


> Weighing doesn't take that long. I have my notebook open anyway so I can log other stuff for that plant. And you know, I do all this first thing in the morning, usually before coffee. Theres nothing worse than picking up a plant, putting it down, picking it up, shoving in a skewer yadda yadda when you're just trying to get done. I do some of that other stuff anyway, until I'm sure my baseline is good. I'll definitely try your tag idea, too. Nah, different pots, some clay some plastic, different shapes and sizes all around, different mediums, different light. I have a grow room, which also happens to be where I sleep (notice how I put that!) that luckily has a large picture window with a pretty nice, long ledge, by design. It faces NW, but it lets in a lot of light, supplemented with LED spots. Humidifier keeps that up all the time. Constant gentle fan. Have a second grow room planned so I can make one higher and one lower light without trying to make everybody happy in the same space. The lower light space won't have any natural light and will be mostly a paph garden. If I still want more room, first I'll have my sanity checked, and then I could put a greenhouse 10x16 or something on a stone patio next to the house. I'd probably have to supplement light in there a little bit too, but that could be fun. More control. Probably way too much info. Thanks for asking. It helps me think through things.



I like the idea of having a grow room, especially where you sleep haha. I have a grow "nook" where I currently just have a long wooden bench with my paphs and phrags on it with lighting. It's on the east side of my place, but the window that is there is blocked by a building which is a bummer. I also keep my terrarium of other orchids in the grow nook. I would eventually like to get shelving with lighting on each tier, but as a student I do not want to break the bank haha it will just have to be something I'll be saving up for pretty slowly. My place has good air flow so I mist my plants several times a day and check their moisture about every other day. I like the idea of getting a green house, mostly because my grandfather had a green house where he kept mainly miniature orchids and his green house was packed to the ceiling with them. I love reading about different ways people keep orchids, it helps expand my horizons on how to take better care of mine.


----------



## Junglejewel (Mar 3, 2019)

Cklinger said:


> Interesting! Do you find that the sphagnum may keep to much water at times? in other words, what's the indication that they need to be watered?


Not at all. I used to be worried about too much moisture and water like most others and my paph's didn't do a whole lot because of that... I started using a lot more sphagnum and watering them a lot more, and they exploded in growths and flowering!! I use the Rand's air cone pots because they hold a lot of extra water in the corners of the bottom and they also deliver more air to the core which helps me with the extra moisture I provide them, and being clear, I water when the top half of the media is pretty dry and the bottom half is slightly moist.


----------



## Junglejewel (Mar 3, 2019)

masaccio said:


> That makes sense. Sounds great, too. I'm making a permanent note of it. I haven't gotten into orchiata yet, but I did just order some cone pots. By the way, I was reading a random on-line commentary on paph culture. I think it was an Asian vendor. He said he believed that paphs like to be "tight" in their pots, so pot in the smallest pot that everything fits into. Comment?


I highly recommend orchiata and Rand's pots for Paph's. I don't find potting them "tight" to be critical. I don't put a seedling in a 4" pot, but don't cram it in a 1" pot either. When I pot, I put the roots in and if there's alittle room to grow, that's the size I use.


----------



## Cklinger (Mar 3, 2019)

Junglejewel said:


> Not at all. I used to be worried about too much moisture and water like most others and my paph's didn't do a whole lot because of that... I started using a lot more sphagnum and watering them a lot more, and they exploded in growths and flowering!! I use the Rand's air cone pots because they hold a lot of extra water in the corners of the bottom and they also deliver more air to the core which helps me with the extra moisture I provide them, and being clear, I water when the top half of the media is pretty dry and the bottom half is slightly moist.



I will definitely be giving this mixture a try when I have to repot. I have an ample amount of sphagnum and bark, all I would need to purchase is the perlite! I do get worried about my paphs drying out sometimes, especially now that summer is coming up and my place unfortunately has no AC so I will have to think ahead and prepare.


----------



## Junglejewel (Mar 4, 2019)

Cklinger said:


> I will definitely be giving this mixture a try when I have to repot. I have an ample amount of sphagnum and bark, all I would need to purchase is the perlite! I do get worried about my paphs drying out sometimes, especially now that summer is coming up and my place unfortunately has no AC so I will have to think ahead and prepare.


Try it and let me know how it goes. I wouldnt pot all of yours my way though. I'd do a couple my way and see how it works with your environment. See if they grow better or not for you. And make sure you have a fan to provide air movement.


----------



## masaccio (Mar 4, 2019)

Cklinger said:


> I like the idea of having a grow room, especially where you sleep haha. I have a grow "nook" where I currently just have a long wooden bench with my paphs and phrags on it with lighting. It's on the east side of my place, but the window that is there is blocked by a building which is a bummer. I also keep my terrarium of other orchids in the grow nook. I would eventually like to get shelving with lighting on each tier, but as a student I do not want to break the bank haha it will just have to be something I'll be saving up for pretty slowly. My place has good air flow so I mist my plants several times a day and check their moisture about every other day. I like the idea of getting a green house, mostly because my grandfather had a green house where he kept mainly miniature orchids and his green house was packed to the ceiling with them. I love reading about different ways people keep orchids, it helps expand my horizons on how to take better care of mine.



You've got great plans. Paphs, phrags and a terrarium. Sounds like you really love the botanicals. So you discovered orchids in your grandfather's greenhouse?


----------



## masaccio (Mar 4, 2019)

Cklinger, I tried your tag moisture test this morning. It's pretty cool. My concern is that it would be testing the medium at the edge, instead of more in the center. I guess, though, if it's just becoming dry at the edge, probably time to water a paph. I'm still hoping that the new mix that incorporates sphag will be more of a tell-tale because of the weight that sphag gives up as it's drying out. Gonna keep on with the tag test though.


----------



## NYEric (Mar 4, 2019)

We water or mist every day. We have over 1000 orchids (see our 'Miscellaneous Stuff' thread). The diatomite holds water but is currently unavailable; in the battle leading to their divorce one of the couple, who own only source in the world, sold off the mining equipment! Our problem is that we were overwatering the Paphs so that's why the mix has to breathe.


----------



## Cklinger (Mar 4, 2019)

masaccio said:


> You've got great plans. Paphs, phrags and a terrarium. Sounds like you really love the botanicals. So you discovered orchids in your grandfather's greenhouse?



I do have a great interest in botanicals, I'm in my third year of University studying biology and planning on going to graduate school for botany. I see your point about the tag only being at the edge of the pot and not measuring the moisture in the center, that is something I haven't really thought about until you brought it up haha so I will probably try your measuring method as well as using your same mixture. It is frustrating though that none of the nurseries around me have medium sized perlite because all I have, and all they keep in stock is small perlite, about the size of a grain of rice or so. I will be making what I can of the mixture and I'll incorporate the perlite when I get it. I am curious though how small you chop up the sphagnum, I was thinking about cutting them a half inch big or so.


----------



## Cklinger (Mar 4, 2019)

NYEric said:


> We water or mist every day. We have over 1000 orchids (see our 'Miscellaneous Stuff' thread). The diatomite holds water but is currently unavailable; in the battle leading to their divorce one of the couple, who own only source in the world, sold off the mining equipment! Our problem is that we were overwatering the Paphs so that's why the mix has to breathe.



Sounds like you have quite the greenhouse! my grandfather kept around 500 or so orchids, I thought his greenhouse was pretty impressive but I couldn't imagine what it would look like in yours! Do you happen to sell/trade orchids at all?

I could see how being in a greenhouse would make it a little difficult to keep paphs unless the mix has a lot of breathe-ability, especially if you have bulbophyllums and other water loving plants.


----------



## Cklinger (Mar 4, 2019)

Junglejewel said:


> Try it and let me know how it goes. I wouldnt pot all of yours my way though. I'd do a couple my way and see how it works with your environment. See if they grow better or not for you. And make sure you have a fan to provide air movement.



I only have 1 or 2 paphs that need repotting sometime soon, so I'll start out with those. I got mixed up and asked the wrong member about this, but how small do you cut your sphagnum moss for your mixture? As I have mentioned in the post above replying to Masaccio, I was thinking about cutting the sphagnum at around a half inch. I will have to order the perlite since for some reason no nurseries around me sell medium perlite.


----------



## masaccio (Mar 4, 2019)

Cklinger said:


> I do have a great interest in botanicals, I'm in my third year of University studying biology and planning on going to graduate school for botany. I see your point about the tag only being at the edge of the pot and not measuring the moisture in the center, that is something I haven't really thought about until you brought it up haha so I will probably try your measuring method as well as using your same mixture. It is frustrating though that none of the nurseries around me have medium sized perlite because all I have, and all they keep in stock is small perlite, about the size of a grain of rice or so. I will be making what I can of the mixture and I'll incorporate the perlite when I get it. I am curious though how small you chop up the sphagnum, I was thinking about cutting them a half inch big or so.



I've never incorporated sphagnum into a mix before so we're in the same boat. In the past I've either used sphagnum alone, or not at all. Maybe the photo of the mix I ordered with the quarter for perspective will help. Personally I'm tolerating a medium grade mix for my two new paphs at the moment because don't want to change the structure of their mix at this point. I suspect strongly that growing in a home with less than ideal humidity, a smaller grade paph mix would be better. It has been pointed out in another thread that it is important if not essential that paph roots immediately contact moist medium as they emerge. I think keeping a medium grade mix moist on the surface in a home at this critical point might be challenging. Indeed, the complex paph that I just bought (in a medium mix) and which presumably was grown in a vendor greenhouse, shows stunted roots from the last growth that didn't make it into the medium). Of course you could top dress to help this along if you really want to use a medium grade mix. One of the other thread participants describes the top dressing he employs.


----------



## masaccio (Mar 4, 2019)

NYEric said:


> We water or mist every day. We have over 1000 orchids (see our 'Miscellaneous Stuff' thread). The diatomite holds water but is currently unavailable; in the battle leading to their divorce one of the couple, who own only source in the world, sold off the mining equipment! Our problem is that we were overwatering the Paphs so that's why the mix has to breathe.



Eric, I happen to have a hobby bag of medium diatomite (which I've had for years). I don't have much clue how to use it. Any suggestions? I don't know how it holds water, how plants react to it, how long it holds water, how it affects a mix, any of that stuff. Thanks for any guidance.


----------



## Cklinger (Mar 4, 2019)

masaccio said:


> I've never incorporated sphagnum into a mix before so we're in the same boat. In the past I've either used sphagnum alone, or not at all. Maybe the photo of the mix I ordered with the quarter for perspective will help. Personally I'm tolerating a medium grade mix for my two new paphs at the moment because don't want to change the structure of their mix at this point. I suspect strongly that growing in a home with less than ideal humidity, a smaller grade paph mix would be better. It has been pointed out in another thread that it is important if not essential that paph roots immediately contact moist medium as they emerge. I think keeping a medium grade mix moist on the surface in a home at this critical point might be challenging. Indeed, the complex paph that I just bought (in a medium mix) and which presumably was grown in a vendor greenhouse, shows stunted roots from the last growth that didn't make it into the medium). Of course you could top dress to help this along if you really want to use a medium grade mix. One of the other thread participants describes the top dressing he employs.



I agree that a smaller paph mix would be better for growing indoors. I would not be able to get the area humid enough to use a medium grade mixture without using a humidifier. For now they have been doing well with several misting sessions throughout the day. 

If you don't mind me asking, what kind of paph did you just get?


----------



## Junglejewel (Mar 4, 2019)

Cklinger said:


> I only have 1 or 2 paphs that need repotting sometime soon, so I'll start out with those. I got mixed up and asked the wrong member about this, but how small do you cut your sphagnum moss for your mixture? As I have mentioned in the post above replying to Masaccio, I was thinking about cutting the sphagnum at around a half inch. I will have to order the perlite since for some reason no nurseries around me sell medium perlite.


Nothing precise. I just grab a handful and scissor it up, but I'd say about 1"-2". I'm really interested about growing Orchid's in a terrarium. I'd like to try some more challenging species that way. Any tips to growing in a terrarium?? And do you have any pictures of your setup?


----------



## Cklinger (Mar 4, 2019)

Junglejewel said:


> Nothing precise. I just grab a handful and scissor it up, but I'd say about 1"-2". I'm really interested about growing Orchid's in a terrarium. I'd like to try some more challenging species that way. Any tips to growing in a terrarium?? And do you have any pictures of your setup?



This is my first terrarium and it's nothing fancy. I use a 25 gallon aquarium and I am mainly interested in miniature/compact orchids. Basically I have a drainage layer with egg crate lining the bottom and back wall for mounted orchids. Underneath I have 2 heating pads that are originally used for heating aquariums/reptile enclosures and it keeps the enclosure at 70 degrees. With the water in the drainage layer and the heaters under the tank, it stays between 65-70% humidity. Everything is on a timer so that at night the temperature drops and the humidity drops a little bit also. It is important to keep airflow in mind also. I have a fan that blows air into the enclosure, and a fan that blows air out of the enclosure as well. The fan that blows air outside the enclosure is on all the time so that the tank does not get too humid over night. I have one light over the terrarium but it gets sunlight throughout the day as well. You can see in the picture that I have a cheap hygrometer and thermometer, but I also check it with an electronic one every once in a while to make sure they are staying accurate.

It is a little difficult when selecting what orchids to keep in the terrarium because some orchids need it warmer or cooler and so on, so you would have to keep in mind what temperature and how humid your terrarium gets and then kind of choose accordingly. 

My terrarium was a rushed project since my grandfather wanted to give me orchids before he passed away, and luckily they are doing great in the terrarium! My terrarium is currently on the ground since I still have to get some furniture for my place. There is also a little bark scattered from when we moved, one of the plants tipped over.


----------



## masaccio (Mar 4, 2019)

Cklinger said:


> I agree that a smaller paph mix would be better for growing indoors. I would not be able to get the area humid enough to use a medium grade mixture without using a humidifier. For now they have been doing well with several misting sessions throughout the day.
> 
> If you don't mind me asking, what kind of paph did you just get?



I bought two at the recent Deep Cut Show in New Jersey, a Paph. venustum var. album (which wasn't in bloom) and a complex paph in bud, which turned out very nicely. I didn't go looking for a venustum, but Marlow had some nice plants so I picked one up. I also have a haynaldianum, a micranthum and a Mem. Larry Heuer (mailpoense x emersonii), all fairly new acquisitions. That's it for paphs for now; out of space until the new growing area has been done. I've been growing off and on for most of my life and have always had a few paphs, although previous collections were generally cattleya=heavy. I still want space for a few unifoliate cattleyas and some bifoliates too, but at this point in my growing "career," I've gone a little paph crazy.


----------



## Cklinger (Mar 4, 2019)

masaccio said:


> I bought two at the recent Deep Cut Show in New Jersey, a Paph. venustum var. album (which wasn't in bloom) and a complex paph in bud, which turned out very nicely. I didn't go looking for a venustum, but Marlow had some nice plants so I picked one up. I also have a haynaldianum, a micranthum and a Mem. Larry Heuer (mailpoense x emersonii), all fairly new acquisitions. That's it for paphs for now; out of space until the new growing area has been done. I've been growing off and on for most of my life and have always had a few paphs, although previous collections were generally cattleya=heavy. I still want space for a few unifoliate cattleyas and some bifoliates too, but at this point in my growing "career," I've gone a little paph crazy.



wow, sounds like quite the haul! Also sounds like you will need that other grow room! I have space in my area, but it just needs to be organized to fit plants more efficiently, I should probably look at shelving sometime soon haha


----------



## NYEric (Mar 5, 2019)

Hahahha! Cklinger, we don't have a greenhouse. I give and trade orchids all the time. If you do the aquarium thing make sure it doesn't stay too moist.
masaccio, dolomite holds water, put a handful in water and you can hear the absorption. Put it next to sphagnum or rock-wool grow cubes and it will keep them wet. If sphagnum gets dry it can be worse than dry bark.


----------



## Junglejewel (Mar 6, 2019)

Cklinger said:


> This is my first terrarium and it's nothing fancy. I use a 25 gallon aquarium and I am mainly interested in miniature/compact orchids. Basically I have a drainage layer with egg crate lining the bottom and back wall for mounted orchids. Underneath I have 2 heating pads that are originally used for heating aquariums/reptile enclosures and it keeps the enclosure at 70 degrees. With the water in the drainage layer and the heaters under the tank, it stays between 65-70% humidity. Everything is on a timer so that at night the temperature drops and the humidity drops a little bit also. It is important to keep airflow in mind also. I have a fan that blows air into the enclosure, and a fan that blows air out of the enclosure as well. The fan that blows air outside the enclosure is on all the time so that the tank does not get too humid over night. I have one light over the terrarium but it gets sunlight throughout the day as well. You can see in the picture that I have a cheap hygrometer and thermometer, but I also check it with an electronic one every once in a while to make sure they are staying accurate.
> 
> It is a little difficult when selecting what orchids to keep in the terrarium because some orchids need it warmer or cooler and so on, so you would have to keep in mind what temperature and how humid your terrarium gets and then kind of choose accordingly.
> 
> ...


That's so neat!! Thank you for the thorough explanation! I might have to try that out.


----------



## Cklinger (Mar 6, 2019)

Junglejewel said:


> That's so neat!! Thank you for the thorough explanation! I might have to try that out.



No problem!


----------



## Cklinger (Mar 6, 2019)

NYEric said:


> Hahahha! Cklinger, we don't have a greenhouse. I give and trade orchids all the time. If you do the aquarium thing make sure it doesn't stay too moist.
> masaccio, dolomite holds water, put a handful in water and you can hear the absorption. Put it next to sphagnum or rock-wool grow cubes and it will keep them wet. If sphagnum gets dry it can be worse than dry bark.



Good to hear! And yeah although the terrarium is set up, I check almost everyday to make sure the plants don't stay too moist for long periods of time.


----------



## Cklinger (Mar 6, 2019)

I am curious, since I am having a hard time finding medium sized perlite, if it would be fine to use charcoal instead? I would think so because it would prevent compaction while also filtering the water of impurities.


----------



## Junglejewel (Mar 6, 2019)

Cklinger said:


> I am curious, since I am having a hard time finding medium sized perlite, if it would be fine to use charcoal instead? I would think so because it would prevent compaction while also filtering the water of impurities.


I got my medium #3 perlite on eBay from BayHydro. Great company and great product!


----------



## Cklinger (Mar 6, 2019)

Junglejewel said:


> I got my medium #3 perlite on eBay from BayHydro. Great company and great product!



Thanks so much! I literally just ordered some after I read your post haha


----------



## xiphius (Mar 20, 2019)

masaccio said:


> Life is too short to make my own mixes View attachment 14715 . I saw an appealing mix from Quarter Acre and ordered it. Blurb: "This orchid potting mix contains fine fir bark, fine horticultural charcoal, oyster shell, perlite and just a touch of AAA+ New Zealand Sphagnam... all excellent for healthy Paphs & Phrags!" Photo attached.



Interesting. This mix looks very similar to Hausermann's "seedling orchid mix" (minus the crushed oyster shell, it looks basically identical). When I lived near Chicago, I used to buy this in bulk and use it for all of my Paphs. Worked great for me as an "all around" medium. I actually used to add in crushed oyster shell myself for calcicolous Paphs.


----------



## masaccio (Mar 22, 2019)

xiphius said:


> Interesting. This mix looks very similar to Hausermann's "seedling orchid mix" (minus the crushed oyster shell, it looks basically identical). When I lived near Chicago, I used to buy this in bulk and use it for all of my Paphs. Worked great for me as an "all around" medium. I actually used to add in crushed oyster shell myself for calcicolous Paphs.



I've always wondered how people do this. Did you buy it crushed? Did you crush it yourself? Have also read that seashells also work. The Quarter Acre mix looks good, but it's expensive. Is it overkill anyway, using a Cal-Mag fertilizing formula?


----------



## tomkalina (Mar 23, 2019)

We've used Hausermann's seedling orchid mix for Paphs for many years right out of the bag. It's at least as good as any other mix we've tried, including Orchiata. For the larger Paphs, we use 50% Paph. seedling mix + 50% of their standard orchid mix which contains larger pieces of bark (Rexius - Heat Sterilized). For the calcium loving Paphs and Phrags, we add one cup of 100 mesh dolomite lime powder per bag.


----------



## masaccio (Mar 23, 2019)

tomkalina said:


> We've used Hausermann's seedling orchid mix for Paphs for many years right out of the bag. It's at least as good as any other mix we've tried, including Orchiata. For the larger Paphs, we use 50% Paph. seedling mix + 50% of their standard orchid mix which contains larger pieces of bark (Rexius - Heat Sterilized). For the calcium loving Paphs and Phrags, we add one cup of 100 mesh dolomite lime powder per bag.



Great. Looking at the Hausermann website, I see a paph/miltoniopsis mix but not a seedling mix per se. Same thing? Interesting that Hausermann doesn't list the contents of this paph/miltoniopsis mix. When you say you add a cup of the dolomite lime powder per bag, do you mean per "hobby bag"? Thanks!


----------



## xiphius (Mar 23, 2019)

masaccio said:


> I've always wondered how people do this. Did you buy it crushed? Did you crush it yourself? Have also read that seashells also work. The Quarter Acre mix looks good, but it's expensive. Is it overkill anyway, using a Cal-Mag fertilizing formula?



You buy it crushed. It's super cheap. A 50 lb bag generally costs <$10 and will last you for years (unless you have an insanely big collection). You can find it at farm supply stores. They sell it for chickens (to ensure strong eggshells). I have heard of some people using seashells and crushing themselves, but it seems like a lot of work to save a very small amount of money. Plus, the stuff you buy has been heat treated and washed to remove impurities.



tomkalina said:


> We've used Hausermann's seedling orchid mix for Paphs for many years right out of the bag. It's at least as good as any other mix we've tried, including Orchiata.



Yeah, it is pretty great (I'm actually still using it because I bought a couple big bags before I left and brought them with me, almost out though). Plus, I loved how cheap it was and that they could easily accommodate any quantity you needed (because they are such a huge operation, they always have a TON on hand). I really miss being nearby . Soon I shall have to figure out alternatives.



tomkalina said:


> For the calcium loving Paphs and Phrags, we add one cup of 100 mesh dolomite lime powder per bag.



Is this coarser than regular dolomite lime? if so, where do you find it? I tried dolomite once, but it seems to just wash out the pot pretty quickly. The nice thing about oyster shell is that it seems to stick around.



masaccio said:


> Great. Looking at the Hausermann website, I see a paph/miltoniopsis mix but not a seedling mix per se. Same thing? Interesting that Hausermann doesn't list the contents of this paph/miltoniopsis mix. When you say you add a cup of the dolomite lime powder per bag, do you mean per "hobby bag"? Thanks!



Not sure, but probably. I know they grow pretty much all of their paphs in their seedling mix (at their greenhouse, it was just called their "seedling mix" - at least as of a couple years ago). Hausermann's isn't great about listing things on their website though. If you are in the neighborhood, I would just stop by in person and look. They always had a ton of paphs in their greenhouse that weren't listed online.


----------



## tomkalina (Mar 23, 2019)

masaccio said:


> Great. Looking at the Hausermann website, I see a paph/miltoniopsis mix but not a seedling mix per se. Same thing? Interesting that Hausermann doesn't list the contents of this paph/miltoniopsis mix. When you say you add a cup of the dolomite lime powder per bag, do you mean per "hobby bag"? Thanks!


The Paph/Miltoniopsis mix is the one I referred to as "seedling orchid mix". We add one cup dolomite lime powder to a 2 cu ft bag of mix. A hobby bag would take much less; perhaps a tablespoon.


----------



## masaccio (Mar 23, 2019)

xiphius said:


> You buy it crushed. It's super cheap. A 50 lb bag generally costs <$10 and will last you for years (unless you have an insanely big collection). You can find it at farm supply stores. They sell it for chickens (to ensure strong eggshells). I have heard of some people using seashells and crushing themselves, but it seems like a lot of work to save a very small amount of money. Plus, the stuff you buy has been heat treated and washed to remove impurities.
> Yeah, it is pretty great (I'm actually still using it because I bought a couple big bags before I left and brought them with me, almost out though). Plus, I loved how cheap it was and that they could easily accommodate any quantity you needed (because they are such a huge operation, they always have a TON on hand). I really miss being nearby . Soon I shall have to figure out alternatives.
> Not sure, but probably. I know they grow pretty much all of their paphs in their seedling mix (at their greenhouse, it was just called their "seedling mix" - at least as of a couple years ago). Hausermann's isn't great about listing things on their website though. If you are in the neighborhood, I would just stop by in person and look. They always had a ton of paphs in their greenhouse that weren't listed online.



Thanks for all the information! I have some of the mix on the way now. Yes, I noticed not a lot of information generally. Would love to visit them though. I probably will never be in the neighborhood, but it might be a fun bucket-list trip.


----------



## masaccio (Mar 23, 2019)

tomkalina said:


> The Paph/Miltoniopsis mix is the one I referred to as "seedling orchid mix". We add one cup dolomite lime powder to a 2 cu ft bag of mix. A hobby bag would take much less; perhaps a tablespoon.


Thanks!


----------



## ostarraann (May 25, 2020)

masaccio said:


> That makes sense. Sounds great, too. I'm making a permanent note of it. I haven't gotten into orchiata yet, but I did just order some cone pots. By the way, I was reading a random on-line commentary on paph culture. I think it was an Asian vendor. He said he believed that paphs like to be "tight" in their pots, so pot in the smallest pot that everything fits into. Comment?



I watched a doco on Indian Paph growers. They said 'put the back of the plant close to the pot but leave room for it to grow forward in the pot'.


----------



## Junglejewel (Jun 12, 2020)

masaccio said:


> That makes sense. Sounds great, too. I'm making a permanent note of it. I haven't gotten into orchiata yet, but I did just order some cone pots. By the way, I was reading a random on-line commentary on paph culture. I think it was an Asian vendor. He said he believed that paphs like to be "tight" in their pots, so pot in the smallest pot that everything fits into. Comment?


Yes for the most part. I pot them in one size larger than the root ball. Meaning, enough room for a year or two of root growth.


----------



## Geek_it (Oct 29, 2020)

troy said:


> This is defenitely open to dispute, I use non organic potting mix except for rocks, pumus, and clay balls, that excludes breakdown of medium



Can you share details? % in mixture?


----------

