# Orchiata, the best pine bark for orchids



## Roth (Sep 23, 2009)

Some years ago I was using Bas van Buuren mixtures, and of course when I moved to Vietnam it was out of question to import from the Netherlands.

I found in Thailand a pine bark supplier from New Zealand, www.orchiata.com and got some samples bags. 

The pine bark they supply is by far the finest I could ever see, the size is perfect, no waste, and furthermore it has been throughly processed so the excessive tannins have been removed, and the acidity of the bark has been corrected by the supplier with lime. I have used it extremely successfully, and discussed at length with the producers of this product, before getting a large shipment to Vietnam.

Their bark is absolutely perfect for orchids, and especially paphs. In my tropical conditions, it does not decompose or nearly so, and I know of several very large nurseries using it for some years. 

I will post more on that subject, but they just informed me that they have a distributor here:

http://www.calwesttropical.com/

For those who are struggling to get good quality bark, it is a really ready to use product. It is even far superior to anything I got in Europe. 

Unfortunately they do not yet export to Europe, but I heard they are investigating how to do.


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## Bob in Albany N.Y. (Sep 23, 2009)

As some of you know last week I visited Hadley of Marriott Orchids. He has been growing in CHC for at least 10 years. This year when he ordered a pallet of what he always buys the quality was so low that he was able to return the product. He then bought a sample bag from Crylstal or what ever the name of company is. He was also not happy with that product. While he was some where in Hawaii going to a show and speaking, he was also introduced to this product. Apparently some of the Hawaii growers have been using it for years. They claimed it held up for 4 or 5 years. I know that is hard to believe but thats the story. Hadley has now switched to the above bark. In the near future there are to become a few distributors of this bark in the U.S. I believe he mentioned one in Georgia. All the seedlings and divisions I bought were already in that bark or he put them in this product before I left. Sounds like a good product to me. It is also my understanding that Sunset Valley Orchids used to use this product but now that there will be distributors in the U.S. he now has switched to another product.


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## nikv (Sep 23, 2009)

Thanks for the link! They are located right here in California. I think I'll be placing an order for bark and some tree fern pots while I'm at it.


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## NYEric (Sep 23, 2009)

Interesting, especially since i have a couple of cubic feet I'm thinking of returning to a vendor!


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## Paul (Sep 23, 2009)

As usual, Europe is at the end of everything about the products quality ... pleeaaaase I want this super bark!! :sob:


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## Bob in Albany N.Y. (Sep 23, 2009)

Eric, so why are you returning such a product to the vendor? If indeed it is Orchiata bark that comes in 3 cubic foot bags, I'll buy it from you.


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## NYEric (Sep 24, 2009)

No, I communicated poorly, I have another media I have to return, too large.


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## kentuckiense (Sep 24, 2009)

I need to do some repotting. I'll have to check this stuff out.


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## Bob in Albany N.Y. (Sep 24, 2009)

Now, all I need to find someone on the East Coast that is selling it. I can only imagine how much shipping would be from California.


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## SlipperKing (Sep 24, 2009)

If it holds up for 4-5 yrs Bob it might be worth the shipping. I went through the motion of buying a 1.5 cu bag and the handleing fee was 8.00 bucks. I stopped there. There might of been an additional "shipping fee" on top of that.


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## gonewild (Sep 24, 2009)

Pinus radiata in the native pine here on the central California coast. I would have never considered it to be a good orchid bark. In the garden it decomposes fast. Whatever they do in their preparation process must really stabilize it. It sounds like a good product.


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## Pete (Sep 24, 2009)

Orchiata is great! the majority of growers on big island use this. It lasts for years easily and that is with a really high humidity and lots of watering too.
I have been using orchiata bark for about 5 years now and I would never switch.


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## emydura (Sep 25, 2009)

Does it come in different sizes?
Can you just buy a bag or two or have you got to get a large shipment?
Price?


David


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## Ray (Sep 25, 2009)

Bob in Albany said:


> Now, all I need to find someone on the East Coast that is selling it. I can only imagine how much shipping would be from California.


I have contacted the vendor to inquire about east-coast distribution. No response yet.


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## Pete (Sep 25, 2009)

it comes in four different sizes. i think they range from #9 being the smallest, #5 is next biggest, #5A is pretty coarse (what i use) and #7 which is really big chunks, ideal for cattleya.
It ships from new zealand so i doubt they will send a single bag or two, you should just hope they can direct you to somebody close by who brings in a few pallets or even a container of it and then you could buy a bag or two from them...


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## Roth (Sep 25, 2009)

Pete said:


> it comes in four different sizes. i think they range from #9 being the smallest, #5 is next biggest, #5A is pretty coarse (what i use) and #7 which is really big chunks, ideal for cattleya.
> It ships from new zealand so i doubt they will send a single bag or two, you should just hope they can direct you to somebody close by who brings in a few pallets or even a container of it and then you could buy a bag or two from them...



Actually, the owners came to see me in Vietnam last month, and they already made 2 distributorship in the USA, now the plan to expand their network.

I worked with Bas van Buuren for many years, as well as Slingerland in the Netherlands. Orchiata people are far more professionnal than those 2 companies. They understand much more about the pine bark than anyone else, and I have been very surprised first by the quality and consistency of their product. I got the grade power - number 5 - 3 times from 3 different batches, and the quality was absolutely constant. 

The pH of the product was 5.9-6.2, and it did not drop after a few months, the EC was extremely low. Before I did not plan to use too much of that in Vietnam, as it was expensive to import, but now I will switch most to a mixture including that pine bark.

For paphs, that's my habit, I always put an element to prevent too much droplets or water pockets to form, like sheet moss, sphagnum, peat or whatever. Low percentage and that's done. 

I have seen as well very large nurseries of phals only potted in that, and of hybrids paphs in China and Vietnam, some in Thailand, and in Taiwan, the plants were great. In Japan, Mukoyama is using it for many years, and they said that it lasted in some cases up to 10 years. I am not too surprised, whilst the BVB bark started to decompose after 4-6 months in Vietnam with the heavy rain, the trial I did 2 years ago showed me that as of today, the product is the same as new.

It must not be soaked or washed before use, use it straight from the bag. If you soak it, a part will sink, because they processed the bark to hold more water than normal fresh or composted bark. Second, there is extra fine lime added that coats all the bark, that will be washed away too quickly if you soak it. I use it straight out of the bag. There is a little liber, maybe 2-3 1cm pieces to a liter, not more, there is absolutely no need to remove it.


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## Pete (Sep 25, 2009)

i find that you absolutley MUST wash the bark before use. your right about the ph and EC being ideal and staying that way for a long while, as well as the unbelievable consistancy. (been the exact same for me for ~5 years), however there is a silt or sediment that needs to be cleaned off the bark before use. Not soaked, but washed.


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## NYEric (Sep 26, 2009)

Now all we need is a source!


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## Chas (Sep 26, 2009)

*Ohio Source of New Zealand Bark*

Roberts Flower Supply in Ohio is now selling Pinus radiata bark from New Zealand in hobby ($4), ½ cu ft ($9.50) and 50 liter bags ($32). The brand is different from Orchiata, but has the same quality characteristics (hard, clean etc). It appears to be the same as the brand that Fred Clark of Sunset Valley Orchids sells (called Kiwi brand bark) and highly recommends. I have used both very successfully. (Orchiata is a darker brown color than the Kiwi). I usually wet the bark slightly (don’t soak) with some water that contains a little KLN.

Roberts Flower Supply, 12390 Root Rd. Columbia Station, Ohio, 44028. Phone 449-236-5571 (email [email protected]). http://www.orchidmix.com/cat2.htm
Depending where you are, shipping is more reasonable from Ohio than California sources (and Wayne Roberts goes to shows in the Ohio-PA area).

While the NZ bark is more expensive, it is worth it. It does not decompose as fast as other bark and plants need to be transplanted less frequently. When needed, plants (paphs and phrags at least) can be moved to bigger pots without disturbing the roots. Plant is removed from the existing pot and more media is simply added to fill the new pot. I do this now with plants I get from Hawaii that use NZ bark and the plants are not set back as much as removing all the bark and starting over. 

Chas


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## Roth (Sep 26, 2009)

Chas said:


> Roberts Flower Supply in Ohio is now selling Pinus radiata bark from New Zealand in hobby ($4), ½ cu ft ($9.50) and 50 liter bags ($32). The brand is different from Orchiata, but has the same quality characteristics (hard, clean etc). It appears to be the same as the brand that Fred Clark of Sunset Valley Orchids sells (called Kiwi brand bark) and highly recommends. I have used both very successfully. (Orchiata is a darker brown color than the Kiwi). I usually wet the bark slightly (don’t soak) with some water that contains a little KLN.
> 
> Roberts Flower Supply, 12390 Root Rd. Columbia Station, Ohio, 44028. Phone 449-236-5571 (email [email protected]). http://www.orchidmix.com/cat2.htm
> Depending where you are, shipping is more reasonable from Ohio than California sources (and Wayne Roberts goes to shows in the Ohio-PA area).
> ...



I checked, and it is indeed Kiwi bark, which is not the same as the orchiata... If you look at the picture apparently there are more flat pieces than in the orchiata. What first surprised me was the high amount of chuncks in the orchiata, perfect 1x1x1cm pieces, and not too much flat parts...

According to the technical datas from both NZ companies, Kiwi is not as suitable as orchiata to my mind, because orchiata is aged bark and pH stabilized, Kiwi is just fresh pine bark. I would be quite careful, or it has to be treated/composted to avoid the high acidity. That's why I choosed orchiata permanently now. I would suspect too that kiwi is less stable regarding the pH and aging than orchiata in a pot...

Kiwi has the drawback of being twice as expensive as orchiata, even by containers, where kiwi is just fresh raw bark, and orchiata is already processed to eliminate the tannins and raise the pH. And the last reason, Orchiata supplied me with batch analysis of the pine bark I purchased, and test it for a wide range of parameters...


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## Ray (Sep 26, 2009)

Sanderianum said:


> Actually, the owners came to see me in Vietnam last month, and they already made 2 distributorship in the USA, now the plan to expand their network.


We know Cal Orchid is one. Who's the other?


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## Bob in Albany N.Y. (Sep 26, 2009)

As I said before it is my understanding it will be someone in Georgia as the other distributor. But who still remains the question. Personally, I'd like at least 20, 3 cubic feet bags, possible more. I'm sure others in my Society would love it. Sunset Valley is claiming they can save on shipping by getting a pallet of 20 bags so I assume that will be from any distributor.


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## Roth (Sep 26, 2009)

I just asked, the second distributor and wholesaler as well is http://www.greenhousespecialists.com/

They have distributors in Oregon, Washington and Idaho.

So far I got only the processed/treated Orchiata, not the kiwi bark. I got far too many problems with tannins and terpenes being released from too fresh bark in Europe. The thing with pinus radiata, it grows in many places, including Viet Nam, but only some plantations produce the thick bark, others have very weak ones. That's why they can do it so far only in NZ. Chileans tried to enter the market a couple of years ago, and they could not, because their bark was too thin...


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## cnycharles (Sep 26, 2009)

Bob in Albany said:


> As I said before it is my understanding it will be someone in Georgia as the other distributor. But who still remains the question. Personally, I'd like at least 20, 3 cubic feet bags, possible more. I'm sure others in my Society would love it. .....



as well as those in neighboring societies! maybe kim of kim's orchid supplies who lives in syracuse and buys potting supplies to sell would be interested


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## paphioland (Sep 28, 2009)

Sanderianum,

Sounds like a great product and have been hearing about it from an orchid friend for a little while who says its great. At the moment I use Rexius bark. Which is heat treated. My concern is viruses. Is this a valid concern. What is your take on this? I have been thinking about switching for a few months now. That is my last reservation.


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## Roth (Sep 28, 2009)

paphioland said:


> Sanderianum,
> 
> Sounds like a great product and have been hearing about it from an orchid friend for a little while who says its great. At the moment I use Rexius bark. Which is heat treated. My concern is viruses. Is this a valid concern. What is your take on this? I have been thinking about switching for a few months now. That is my last reservation.



The viruses would not have worried me too much, because they produce it from fresh bark, so it has not been stockpiled. I was initially thinking about pathogenic fungus and bacterias, but first they provided me microbiological analysis, quite extensive, second during their processing, the piles are warming up naturally, and third, I have seen phals nurseries using that product exclusively, and no signs of diseases. As for myself, I did not get any single problem with the orchiata.

For the orchid viruses, there are not that many in fact, roughly 30+, and only ORSV could pass through the potting media - CyMV much less so. None of them is around pine bark or forests in NZ, so I am sure the virus part is not a problem. The second thing is that they make many growth and phytotoxicity tests before releasing each batch, which makes me quite confident. I am even thinking to distribute their product in Vietnam, because that's really working foolproof...

I just got the manager by email, asked him if there is a distributor closer to NY or FL areas, they have one in progress

Tim May
Acadian Industrial Textiles
1856 Buford Highway
Duluth, Georgia 30097
Ph # 678-206-1103

It's a large company dealing as well in industrial greenhouse covers...


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## NYEric (Sep 28, 2009)

THanx for the info.


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## SlipperFan (Sep 28, 2009)

Ray said:


> We know Cal Orchid is one. Who's the other?



Is there a difference between Cal Orchids and Cal West Orchids? Different websites, and Cal West sells orchiata on their website, but I didn't see in on the Cal Orchids site.


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## luvsorchids (Sep 28, 2009)

SlipperFan said:


> Is there a difference between Cal Orchids and Cal West Orchids? Different websites, and Cal West sells orchiata on their website, but I didn't see in on the Cal Orchids site.



They are different companies in different locations. I am not sure if they have any real connection other than similar names.

Susan


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## cnycharles (Oct 2, 2009)

*northeastern u.s supplier of true orchiata*

I talked to Kim B. of Kim's Interiors + Orchids tonight while setting up our show, and she said that she will have some tomorrow. Her website is 
http://www.kmborchids.com/page/page/1978297.htm though it's not listed there yet. She said that she thinks a few others in the east have the kiwi bark, but not orchiata, and that she will have orchiata. She bought it from the wholesaler. You can contact her through the website (syracuse, ny area). I'll see it tomorrow and can let you know how much it will cost for what size bark and bag. Looks like chc's will be gone from my collection!

Kim said that she will be updating her website with pictures and links to the media and prices


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## Scott Ware (Oct 3, 2009)

I just received 6 bags of Orchiata bark to do a small test to see how well I liked it and so far it has been an absolute pleasure to work with. 

I was astounded at how heavy the bags were when they arrived but quickly realized it was because the bark is actually quite wet inside the bag. It is very uniform in size, so no need to rescreen it. It's VERY clean so there is no need to pick out sticks and wood. And for the first time since I can remember, I didn't get any splinters in my hands while mixing and repotting. 

Now I just need to find an economical shipping method to get a couple pallets of it before the real repotting season begins and still not have to remortgage the house.


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## Pete (Oct 3, 2009)

Fedex aircan my friend


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## Ray (Oct 8, 2009)

Hooray!!!!

I was finally contacted by the Orchiata distributor, and a load of material is on the way to the east coast, so I'll actually have the stuff available shortly.

In an unrelated story (commercial content, please forgive me on this one):

First Rays is coming up on our 15th anniversary of being in business.

As a "thank you" :smitten: to all that have kept us running, we are offering a discount on all orders placed through 10/14/2009. Details on our home page


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