# Paph (venustum x helenae):Looking for Suggestions



## paphreek (Jun 21, 2007)

I'm looking for ideas on breeding these little darlings. While the flowers are a little drab and don't have tremendous shape, the plants are vigorous growers and free bloomers, quickly creating clumps of growths in a 2 1/4 inch pot. This is a picture of one on its second bloom. Its first bloom was last October. I've tried breeding to complex Paphs twice, doing the cross both ways. None of the four crosses took. With the current two in bloom, I've tried an F2 sib cross and ([venustum album x helenae] x godefroyae var. leucochilum). What other species or primaries would you suggest and why? I have two more in bud.


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## bwester (Jun 21, 2007)

well, I'm naturally going to say malipoense or micranthum. but thats just because I'm obsessed with the 2 and think they make a good cross with just about anything.


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## Roy (Jun 21, 2007)

I wonder why bother trying to put shape and size into a miniature paph like that. Why not use similar small growing Paphs, with color, on it. Suggestions would be, spicerianum, appletonianum, wolterianum, volontianum, gratrixianum, fairrieanum. Or, sequential flowerers like P.liemianum or moquettianum would add good clean color also.


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## ohio-guy (Jun 22, 2007)

I like look of the venustum, and always wonder why there aren't more back crosses to it. 
Have you considered trying to cross back to a colorful venustum to get similar species appearence but maybe a bit of hybrid vigor?


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## TADD (Jun 22, 2007)

YOu know what I am gonna say.....fairrieanum or even niveum(yours especially!)


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## paphreek (Jun 22, 2007)

Roy said:


> I wonder why bother trying to put shape and size into a miniature paph like that. Why not use similar small growing Paphs, with color, on it. Suggestions would be, spicerianum, appletonianum, wolterianum, volontianum, gratrixianum, fairrieanum. Or, sequential flowerers like P.liemianum or moquettianum would add good clean color also.



I like the idea of the sequential, perhaps glaucophyllum as it can impart red/maroon spotting to its progeny. Here is a link to Antec that shows some visual examples: http://ladyslipper.com/ppglauco.htm


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## paphreek (Jun 22, 2007)

ohio-guy said:


> I like look of the venustum, and always wonder why there aren't more back crosses to it.
> Have you considered trying to cross back to a colorful venustum to get similar species appearence but maybe a bit of hybrid vigor?



I am trying something similar with the F2 cross. This idea comes from an Orchid Digest article from a couple of years ago. The writer crossed two Masdevallia species with high hopes only to have all the seedlings bloom out consistently the same, without the characteristics that he had hope for. He then took two of the seedlings and crossed them to each other creating an F2 generation. This second cross created flowers with a far greater range of variation. I would assume this is due to recessive genes being able to assert themselves in a pertentage of the progeny.


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## paphreek (Jun 22, 2007)

TADD said:


> YOu know what I am gonna say.....fairrieanum or even niveum(yours especially!)



Niveum seems like a strong possibility, too. Unfortunately, I seem to have little luck getting fairrieanum hybrids to breed, but as an end in itself, it has merit.


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## paphreek (Jun 22, 2007)

bwester said:


> well, I'm naturally going to say malipoense or micranthum. but thats just because I'm obsessed with the 2 and think they make a good cross with just about anything.



At the present, I don't have any plants to use for either cross, but they are something to keep in mind. BTW, I also have one of the malipoense in spike from the same cross I sold you. I'm anxious to see how it turns out. If it's nice, I'll have malipoense pollen to use!


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## Roy (Jun 24, 2007)

Here's a thought, Uri has P.barbigerum in flower, maybe he could spare some pollen for your plant to help increase the yellow???
See Paph Pic threads.


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## Darin (Jun 25, 2007)

Ross, I'd really like you to keep trying the complex stuff (perhaps an old known good breeder like Winston Churchill or Hellas) or perhaps your Little by Little "war eagle". If you are going the primary/ species i'd say cross it with a henryanum (To add colour) or a brachy to widen the petals.

D


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## Mrs. Paph (Jun 25, 2007)

I second the henryanum idea for color, or how about Tyke, for the same reason? 
~Miss Paph


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## paphreek (Jun 25, 2007)

Darin said:


> Ross, I'd really like you to keep trying the complex stuff (perhaps an old known good breeder like Winston Churchill or Hellas) or perhaps your Little by Little "war eagle". If you are going the primary/ species i'd say cross it with a henryanum (To add colour) or a brachy to widen the petals.
> 
> D


Hi Darin,
I will try another complex cross or two in the future. For now, I just want to see if this cross will breed with anything. I probably will try a henryanum cross, simply because like just about anything with henryanum.


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## paphreek (Jun 25, 2007)

Roy said:


> Here's a thought, Uri has P.barbigerum in flower, maybe he could spare some pollen for your plant to help increase the yellow???
> See Paph Pic threads.



I, also have a few barbigerums in bloom, so that is a possibility.
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4122


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## WolfDog1 (C. Williams) (Jun 26, 2007)

barbigerum was my first thought as well. That should keep it small/mineature. However, micranthum sounds great too.


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