# Climbers?



## Bjorn (Dec 12, 2014)

I have a slight problem with some of my paphs. I am talking of a tendency to climb i.e. an elongation of the stem with roots coming out. Particularly plants of the sigmatopetalum sub section like braemii and dayanum seem to be hit by this. Anyone having experience with how to avoid/minimise this?


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## Parryaw (Dec 12, 2014)

My sukhakuliis have that problem too! The new growth is way out of the substrate and the new root tips just shrivel.


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## The Mutant (Dec 12, 2014)

I don't have this problem with any of my sigmatopetalums...yet. My dayanum is still a tiny baby, my sukh doesn't display this tendency, but then it's only working on its second growth, but I think I will have this problem with my tonsum. I hope it'll be well behaved.

I think it might be genetic, but that's just a wild guess.


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## PaphMadMan (Dec 12, 2014)

Most Sigmatopetalum, and sometimes other Paphs, can do this. Possibly an adaptation to let a plant climb a bit in a location with rapidly accumulating leaf litter or scrambling between rocks. It definitely can be genetic - some plants will always do it - but there seem to be environmental factors as well. Crowding, less than optimal light, very high humidity, warm nights, and media that stays too wet too long seem to encourage it, in my experience.


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## eggshells (Dec 12, 2014)

My Paph braemii is notorious at this. It looks like an epidendrum now. Same with a few barbata species. It's ridiculous.

I'm pretty sure its not the lighting or lack thereof as it is right on top of my bulbs so I second Kirk's opinion on the accumulating leaf adaptation.


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## Justin (Dec 12, 2014)

my superbiens do this too. so far i have been dividing them which works well but only if you've got strong plants. Otherwise you are just stuck with trying to keep repotting them deeper and deeper.


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## Bjorn (Dec 12, 2014)

Interesting that you have it with braemii as well. Its easy to buy the leaf litter theory, though at the speed the plants grow, there must be an accumulation of thick piles of leaf litter in a couple of years, and it does not. Tropical forests hardly build up humus layers at all so fast is the decomposition. Could there be other things, light perhaps, what is correct?


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## Parryaw (Dec 12, 2014)

I have resorted to planting mine sideways so that it can root but yet mine still insist on going up!


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## eggshells (Dec 12, 2014)

Bjorn said:


> Interesting that you have it with braemii as well. Its easy to buy the leaf litter theory, though at the speed the plants grow, there must be an accumulation of thick piles of leaf litter in a couple of years, and it does not. Tropical forests hardly build up humus layers at all so fast is the decomposition. Could there be other things, light perhaps, what is correct?



My other theory is that the plants uses it to anchor themselves (just like a phal or other epiphytes would do on a tree). Many barbata species actually grows in slope (quick drainage). I've seen barbatum, ciliolaire, appletonianum growing this way. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkkwCV7eJvs

The stem is really thin in the first place so there will be few root growth points in one place. I guess by putting roots on the more elevated part of the axis allows more room for root growth points.


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## troy (Dec 12, 2014)

I have a malipoense that does that, I just thought the roots were pushing it up so I repotted it in a large pot but it still seems to pop up lol.. anybody else have a malipoense that does this?


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## NYEric (Dec 12, 2014)

eggshells said:


> My Paph braemii is notorious at this. It looks like an epidendrum now. Same with a few barbata species. It's ridiculous.
> 
> I'm pretty sure its not the lighting or lack thereof as it is right on top of my bulbs so I second Kirk's opinion on the accumulating leaf adaptation.



Yep. repot in tall pots so the roots don't dry out, and move to a brighter location.


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## troy (Dec 12, 2014)

Huh.... more light


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## NYEric (Dec 13, 2014)

yes, the plant is trying to climb. that's not to get more water!


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## Bjorn (Dec 13, 2014)

Will the leaves show when enough light? Upright, flat to the ground etc? My braemis, the most notorious climbers, are at close to cattleya light level, but leaves point upwards. Too much or too little? And still they try to climb....


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## Stone (Dec 13, 2014)

This often happens with seedlings in flask so I don't think its a low light issue.
I recently (5 months ago) got a flask of malipoense which were very vigorous but also very stretched like this. I have seen it often in different flasks from different suppliers.

After a few months in the compot they started to settle down and are now nice and compact.

It could be nutrient related or hormonal or both. (If the plant is in a down cycle going to sleep/domancy/rest, the growth hormones may be out of wack with the light or feed or water coming to the plant) I wonder if some form of cytokinin to rectify it or auxin to stop it similar may help? Maybe someone knows???
I have also noticed it happening after after a sick plant begins to recover. That is - if a plant has lost leaves and become small (shrinking plant syndrome) and then decides to start up again this often happens with me.
Although I must say it is usually in winter with artificial light.

I had a few doing this this winter but all which have survived are now ok and growing normally.

Might have something to do with trying to force growth off season?
I don't think it has anything to do with natural adaptation.


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## Bjorn (Dec 13, 2014)

I'ts quite common in flasks thats true. But it normally gets normal once they are planted. In the braemi case, we talk about a lot (approx15) of plants that came to me from Indonesia some months ago. They acclimatised easily but now they started stretching. I wonder if it could be their natural way of growing, several of the plants seemed to have stoloniferous roots, almost like the kind you see in micranthum and armeniacum, but thicker. How to describe? Perhaps as a stem without leaves but with roots radiating in a comb-like manner to both sides? I have a feeling that the plants were collected, but of course they could as well be from farming. Who knows? I would like to have them in the pot close to the surface and not wandering around, be it upwards or sideways.
B


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## Leo Schordje (Dec 16, 2014)

I see it more often in my collection where light levels are low, but it can happen with plants in good light too. Don't know the cause. I repot tilting plant sideways if this is possible, divide when not. Sometimes an old growth will send out several climbers, in that case sometimes I remove the leaves of the old growth and bury the whole clumps in a deep pot with the new growths at the right level. For some plants where I have a nice clump and just one climber, I remove the climber - pitch it to the compost heap and hope the main clump sends out a better behaved replacement. (the compost heap is only for the more common hybrid stuff, don't worry I try to save every fragment of the 'good stuff'). It has always been a problem, my Paphs virens and hookerae are chronic climbers. At some point you just have to expect it to happen. 

Phrags of course are notorious for this, and were the ones I most often use the tilt and repot, often using wire - bonsai style - to hold down the new growths into the mix. Of course with the tilt method, old foliage will move and level out some, but never completely. So it looks weird, but better than having to go with either no new growths or constantly having only a one growth plant. Besseae in particular is a much better flower when you have 3 or more growths rooted in the pot.


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## Rick (Dec 19, 2014)

I used to see this a lot in barbata types at higher feed rates (lower watering rates), but hardly ever any more.

I used to think it was a natural way to stay above leaf litter accumulations, and didn't think much about it back then.


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## likespaphs (Dec 22, 2014)

i know there has been at least one thread about this, but i can't seem to find it
then again, i may be confusing a couple different threads
i know there was one about someone sort of taking cuttings with a climber
i found one from Jason Fischer about a climbing Phrag, but links to the photos are broken


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## Happypaphy7 (Feb 26, 2015)

I can't find older thread one, either. 

Anyway, I am here because I have some paphs (barbarta group) doing this same thing, which I find highly annoying.

I can say that it has nothing to do with heavy feeding as I never do that.
I can also say what we're talking about here is not the same kind of stretch that occurs in the shade. I grow all mine in fairly high light and some still do this and some that are actually in rather shaded area do not exhibit this.

So...I guess it's just genetic?


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## Kawarthapine (Feb 27, 2015)

This tends to happen most often with my phrag, Don Wimber. I have several from two different sources. Both sourced plants do it but it seems to happen more under window-sill culture compared to those growing in my plant room (overhead artificial light).

Could it have something to do with a disproportionate amount of lateral light?


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## Justin (Feb 27, 2015)

i believe it is just natural for certain types to grow this way as an adaptation to their original environment. in culture we just have to work around it.


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## paphioboy (Feb 28, 2015)

I think it is more to do with root aeration. Since transitioning my barbata types to wooden baskets, they don't produce these tall growths any more..


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## abax (Feb 28, 2015)

I'd suggest air layering some of the tall climbers. I did it
successfully on a very leggy besseae and the new detached plant which is fairly small has a bud. The mother plant
is doing much better and also has a bud developing. I was
doubtful about the process on Phrags., but found it quite
easy.


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## Kawarthapine (Mar 1, 2015)

I apologize for my inexperience. But what is 'Air Layering'?

Can someone please describe this technique.

Thank you.


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## abax (Mar 1, 2015)

Use a razor blade and cut a slit in the elongated part of the stem, get a toothpick and insert it into the slit to keep it from
growing closed, wrap the whole area with wet sphagnum moss,
enclose the whole shebang with Saran Wrap and tie off the ends of the plastic wrap securely with twist ties. The
sphag. will have to be kept quite moist so make provision
for getting water in there. If I remember correctly, it
took a couple of months to see nice, new roots pushing
through the sphag. Detach from mother plant when you
can see the root development and pot up. Now you have
two plants instead of one and the mother plant fills out
quite well and stays more compact. TAHDAH!!!


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## dodidoki (Mar 2, 2015)

My tonsums do that. I got them as import plants with thin, elongated rhizomes, so I think they did the same in wild, too. Maybe they grew on vertical rocks or branches...God knows.


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## abax (Mar 3, 2015)

Try the air layering. It's fun!


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## andre (Mar 3, 2015)

Same thing happens to me with my volonteaum and javanica. I do think it is an adaptation to climb out of accumulating leaf litter, or the plant being a lithophyte having to cling to the cliff. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## NYEric (Mar 3, 2015)

abax said:


> Try the air layering. It's fun!



Why do you have to cut the plant? Usually there are root growths coming where the plant elongates.


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## cnycharles (Mar 3, 2015)

It's a standard for air layering regular plants, not sure if needs to be done with all plants but if it works don't fix it!


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## abax (Mar 4, 2015)

Eric, mine didn't have any air roots on the leggy stem so
I made some.


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