# Phrag besseae flavum



## edkravcik (Jun 29, 2015)

First bloom. Just over 7 cm across

Purchased from Ecuagenera in Toronto earlier this year


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## NYEric (Jun 29, 2015)

Yay besseae!


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## youngslipper (Jun 29, 2015)

Wow


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## eOrchids (Jun 29, 2015)

Nice!


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## trdyl (Jun 29, 2015)

Beautiful!


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## 17andgrowing (Jun 29, 2015)

Lovely!


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## Justin (Jun 29, 2015)

nice!


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## abax (Jun 29, 2015)

I want a flavum just like that! It's lovely and such a nice
change from all the reds.


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## eaborne (Jun 29, 2015)

Love it!


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## Ozpaph (Jun 30, 2015)

lovely


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## phrag guy (Jun 30, 2015)

very nice


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## SlipperFan (Jun 30, 2015)

Good color; lovely dorsal. Looks to be a good one.


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## Achamore (Jul 1, 2015)

*The Story behind besseae flavum?*

Do you know the story of the finding of the first flavum..?


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## edkravcik (Jul 1, 2015)

No I don't. Please enlighten .... I love a good orchid story


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## Hamlet (Jul 1, 2015)

A beauty!


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## eaborne (Jul 1, 2015)

Achamore said:


> Do you know the story of the finding of the first flavum..?



I would love to hear it too!


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## Phrag-Plus (Jul 3, 2015)

Very nice!


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## MaryPientka (Jul 4, 2015)

Beautiful!


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## trdyl (Jul 6, 2015)

Achamore said:


> Do you know the story of the finding of the first flavum..?



I'd like to hear about it also.


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## Achamore (Jul 31, 2015)

Ok, I'll just take a day or so to double-check the details first.


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## Achamore (Jul 31, 2015)

Ok, so I have the story details once more, from one of those directly involved. You'll understand that I cannot give names to people or companies in this little story.

Many years back, before besseae seedlings were available, a number of blooming size besseae plants were brought in to Germany by a grower there. Over several months he sold a number of these to various customers. One day one of these customers came to his premises, rather irate, holding the besseae flavum in his hand. "I bought a red one, but you gave me a yellow one!!" The grower kindly let the silly man pick any of the other besseae's he had on hand, and took the yellow one off his hands.

Eventually a division of this original flavum was sold to someone in America, where it ended up being sold to a grower who was able to self it. The same happened over here in Europe, where the other division of the original plant was lent to a grower in the UK who was also able to self it (as the German grower had not succeeded in doing so).

To the best of our knowledge, this one specimen that landed (illegally) in Germany all those years ago, is the only one ever to have been found. So any of us that have a besseae flavum, our specimens are all self-seeded offspring of that one plant. An interesting story, eh..?


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## NYEric (Jul 31, 2015)

Yes, the story has been posted here previously. Tom Kalina (Fox Valley Orchids) rescued the piece from Popow. Since it's previously mentioned and was published  and any statute of limitations has surely passed, the issue of legality is moot.


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## Achamore (Jul 31, 2015)

When I asked, nobody mentioned that the story had been told on the forum before. In any case, many folk may not be aware that all of the besseae flavum out there derive from that one plant, which is pretty incredible.


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## My Green Pets (Jul 31, 2015)

Thanks for the story! I didn't understand the part about some growers not being able to self it and others were. You place the pollen on the stigma and it is pollinated, is that not right? If not, what variations would lead to one grower's success where others failed?


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## Achamore (Jul 31, 2015)

Well, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, or so I am led to believe. I tried a few times myself a few years ago, but gave up. Never managed to get it to work. Some people are just better at that than others!


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## NYEric (Jul 31, 2015)

CambriaWhat said:


> Thanks for the story! I didn't understand the part about some growers not being able to self it and others were. You place the pollen on the stigma and it is pollinated, is that not right? If not, what variations would lead to one grower's success where others failed?



You're kidding right? Most pods, even if they take, don't get good germination, and then replates fail. It's not that simple.
And by the way, one example did not land in Germany, it was a "sport', i.e. a mutation.


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## trdyl (Jul 31, 2015)

Achamore said:


> Ok, so I have the story details once more, from one of those directly involved. You'll understand that I cannot give names to people or companies in this little story.
> 
> Many years back, before besseae seedlings were available, a number of blooming size besseae plants were brought in to Germany by a grower there. Over several months he sold a number of these to various customers. One day one of these customers came to his premises, rather irate, holding the besseae flavum in his hand. "I bought a red one, but you gave me a yellow one!!" The grower kindly let the silly man pick any of the other besseae's he had on hand, and took the yellow one off his hands.
> 
> ...



Don, Thanks for posting. I love reading about this kind of stuff.


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## NYEric (Jul 31, 2015)

Here, from the Central NY OS publication 2005. Start on Page 7.
http://www.cnyos.org/CNYOS.Feb.2005.pdf


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## trdyl (Jul 31, 2015)

NYEric said:


> Here, from the Central NY OS publication 2005. Start on Page 7.
> http://www.cnyos.org/CNYOS.Feb.2005.pdf


 
Thanks Eric. If that woman only knew what she had in her hands....


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## Achamore (Aug 1, 2015)

NYEric said:


> You're kidding right? Most pods, even if they take, don't get good germination, and then replates fail. It's not that simple.
> And by the way, one example did not land in Germany, it was a "sport', i.e. a mutation.



Ummm... In what way did it not "land" in Germany? Of course it is a mutation. That doesn't mean that it just suddenly appears out of thin air. The point is that these plants were collected from the wild, and this one plant, which was a flavum in the wild, happened to be amongst the plants that were flown in to Germany. The plane touched down. so in this sense all the besseae of that shipment landed in Germany. Just because it is a mutation doesn't mean it didn't follow the route of its bretheren. Or are you assuming that it changed from a red besseae to a yellow one, after it arrived in Germany? That is of course possible, but I think it is far more likely it was born that way in the wild, and so was a flavum upon arrival in Germany.


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## NYEric (Aug 1, 2015)

The plant was part of a pre-CITES shipment, thousands of plants not in bloom. Do you know how it came to Europe?


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## Achamore (Aug 1, 2015)

Interesting point. Have tried to get more info on when CITES came into effect with its Appendix 1 for orchids, but CITES itself came into effect in 1975. Besseae was discovered in 1981. But just how the bunch that included the flavum came into Europe I have not been told.


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## NYEric (Aug 1, 2015)

You're welcome.


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## Achamore (Aug 3, 2015)

NYEric said:


> The plant was part of a pre-CITES shipment, thousands of plants not in bloom. Do you know how it came to Europe?



Do you know more about the story? Care to share?


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## NYEric (Aug 3, 2015)

I'm already on 'the list'. Are you trying to get me killed!?


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## Achamore (Aug 3, 2015)

Just wasn't sure what you had meant by "You're welcome" so was trying to find out.


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## NYEric (Aug 3, 2015)

:ninja:


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