# Survey of S/H Growers - Repotting



## Heather (Jan 24, 2007)

I was thinking the other day that in May (I know, a ways off) it will be a year since many of my plants were moved over to S/H. 

Other than a fair amount of algae in some of the pots, though root growth in many has been very good, I wouldn't say a lot of the plants necessarily will *need* repotting for that reason. Is it a good idea to remove the plants, clean the media and the pots and repot back into the same, or do most people just leave well enough alone? 

I have found that, growing in other media, my plants have always seemed to enjoy repotting, so I wonder if that's another reason to repot or if it might be different in S/H.

So, I'd like to know how often our S/H growers repot, and their primary reason for doing so. 

Thanks!


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## NYEric (Jan 24, 2007)

I don't know if my unothodox hydro. method counts but I plan on repotting when the plants get so big or when the media breaks down. A lot of my Phrags are seedlings so I will do a bunch of them as they grow [soon]. Then, unfortunately, I'll have space issuesdue to bigger pots and lots o' plants! The Paphs I will repot soon, as I just got my order from Kelly's Korner [shameless plug], and have a couple of nights free per week. I think for typical s/h method it wouldn't hurt to freshen the media as long as you don't break the roots. Cheers!


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## Cinderella (Jan 24, 2007)

For me personally I repot if I see any decline, that is obvious. Otherwise if things are moving along, I don't repot Phrags and Paphs that often but I do check every 2 years because I just want to see what is going on down there. I also wash off the media in case there are any accumulated salts, altho flushing is supposed to get rid of that, get rid of the algae too while I'm at it.

However in Phals especially I think it is important to repot much sooner because a lot of the roots rot and I like to clean them up. I try to repot after about 6 months but it doesn't always happen. 

I was going to ask this question too, Heather, about Paphs since they don't like to be disturbed.


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## Ron-NY (Jan 24, 2007)

I only repot my S/H plants when the pot size warrants it. I don't use clear pots to avoid an algae problem. I find it is totally impossible to remove the medium, without damaging roots, due to the amount of root growth and some genera attach thier roots to the pellets. Being it is an inorganic medium, it never breaks down. Repotting and removal of the medium breaks roots and slows down the plant.


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## Park Bear (Jan 24, 2007)

I the same as most above, I repot only when I have to. I usually flush the clay in a bucket of water or under a hose outside and then repot.


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## gonewild (Jan 24, 2007)

Heather said:


> I have found that, growing in other media, my plants have always seemed to enjoy repotting, so I wonder if that's another reason to repot or if it might be different in S/H.



The reason they enjoy repotting is because the new fresh mix is an improvement over the old decayed mix. With leca you don't have that situation. Since you use clear pots there is no reason to repot unless you see a problem starting. One future problem you might foresee is that the pot is getting really full of roots, then you may want to repot into a larger pot so the root mass does not fill up all of the air space between the pebbles. Maintaining the open space in the media is important with the wet S/H culture.


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## Leo Schordje (Jan 24, 2007)

I am not sold on semi-hydro results so far are no better than my results in a bark mix. I need to repot just as often, if not more often due to algae growth. Roots seem short lived. Nice roots grow, then die, rot, and new roots take their place. Curious.


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## Cinderella (Jan 24, 2007)

Maybe Leo because you have really good conditions and grow lots of healthy roots. Then, as Lance said, there is insufficient air because the abundance of roots creates insufficient air flow. This is just a kooky theory. I guess moving up to a larger container would take care of that issue? Maybe someone more experienced w/ s/h can weigh in.


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## Heather (Jan 24, 2007)

This has been an interesting thread. What I was thinking I would (not repot across the board) has been confirmed. Thanks, but keep the answers coming if there are more of you. 

Does anyone else add anything to their water to help control algae? I'm always reticent, though I see it suggested occasionally.


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## gonewild (Jan 24, 2007)

Leo Schordje said:


> I am not sold on semi-hydro results so far are no better than my results in a bark mix. I need to repot just as often, if not more often due to algae growth. Roots seem short lived. Nice roots grow, then die, rot, and new roots take their place. Curious.



Maybe this process of short lived roots is taking place in regular media as well. Just that the decaying roots are not as visible in the regular media as in the S/H? Do you notice if the decayed roots from your s/h pots have been down in the water reservoir?

I don't think the S/H method of growing will be any better than growing in regular media if you are managing regular media properly. I do think the S/H method makes it easier to manage fertilizer and water requirements. 

I actually think the best use of the leca media would be in regular drainage pots as opposed to using the water reservoir. Then you could water the plants a couple times per day. But that would require a lot of attention and care


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## gonewild (Jan 24, 2007)

Heather said:


> This has been an interesting thread. What I was thinking I would (not repot across the board) has been confirmed. Thanks, but keep the answers coming if there are more of you.
> 
> Does anyone else add anything to their water to help control algae? I'm always reticent, though I see it suggested occasionally.



I would not add any chemical to control algae on a regular basis. Such additives could easily lead to disaster.

What harm is the algae is doing in the pots?


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## johnndc (Jan 24, 2007)

With no proof at all to back me up, I'm one of those who thinks the algae is a sign of life in my pots. My best semi-hydro plants, with tons of roots, are the messiest in terms of algae. I have a catt that's going on a good 18 months now, and it has FILLED the pot with roots, down into the reservoir, and they're not dying. I will probably have to repot that one soon, the roots have fllled it. Otherwise, as someone else noted, I only repot when I notice something wrong with the plant - or if it's a plant that I'm not convinced is taking to semi-hydro, then I unpot to have a peek (and so far, have been pleasantly surprised with most since I got my lights). But I could imagine the algae becoming a problem if it REALLY got thick. Then again, as I said, I have roots underwater and it's not like they get a lot of air


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## gonewild (Jan 24, 2007)

johnndc said:


> With no proof at all to back me up, I'm one of those who thinks the algae is a sign of life in my pots. My best semi-hydro plants, with tons of roots, are the messiest in terms of algae. I have a catt that's going on a good 18 months now, and it has FILLED the pot with roots, down into the reservoir, and they're not dying. I will probably have to repot that one soon, the roots have fllled it. Otherwise, as someone else noted, I only repot when I notice something wrong with the plant - or if it's a plant that I'm not convinced is taking to semi-hydro, then I unpot to have a peek (and so far, have been pleasantly surprised with most since I got my lights). But I could imagine the algae becoming a problem if it REALLY got thick. Then again, as I said, I have roots underwater and it's not like they get a lot of air



You do have proof to back you up! Your stated observation "My best semi-hydro plants, with tons of roots, are the messiest in terms of algae."

I agree with you about algae. I'm not even sure thick algae would be a problem. After all algae produces oxygen so it is actually adding oxygen to the root area, is it not?

I would like to know if there is a valid reason to eliminate it.


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## Heather (Jan 24, 2007)

My biggest. only? Issue with algae is it blocks the drainage holes and I have to pluck it out.

Other than that I am concerned it precludes me from seeing good root growth.


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## gonewild (Jan 24, 2007)

Heather said:


> My biggest. only? Issue with algae is it blocks the drainage holes and I have to pluck it out.
> 
> Other than that I am concerned it precludes me from seeing good root growth.



Blocking the drainage holes is a good concern. Does it actually block the holes to the point where the water won't drain or just slow down the flow?
Even so I think it would be better to pluck it out than use an algaecide. just chalk it up to "Quality Family Time".

When you have so much algae growing that you can't see the root growth do you often find bad roots? 

Is there a correlation between algae growth and root quality?


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## Tony (Jan 24, 2007)

gonewild said:


> I actually think the best use of the leca media would be in regular drainage pots as opposed to using the water reservoir. Then you could water the plants a couple times per day. But that would require a lot of attention and care



That is how I grow mine, LECA in clear aircone pots. Results have been good so far, and I have found that watering every 2-3 days is sufficient. The best part of it is that I no longer have to worry about root rot during the times that we get daily rain.

I have noticed some algae growth in a few pots, but it's too soon to say if it has any effect on the plants, good or bad. I remember reading that algae releases nutriens as it grows, and of course also releases oxygen, so I doubt it would cause any harm.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jan 24, 2007)

Its too soon for me to participate in the survey, as none of my SH plants have grown enough to even consider repotting...but I have yet to find any algae in my pots or on the rocks....Take care, Eric


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## johnndc (Jan 25, 2007)

Catt transplated into semi-hydro, July 2005.





Same catt, today. Lots of algae, yet roots not dying - at least not the roots on the outside.


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## Heather (Jan 25, 2007)

This thread is about slippers, John. oke:

Just kidding.
Roots look great!


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## johnndc (Jan 25, 2007)

Well, I wasn't thinking that it mattered for slippers in s/h vs. other roots, but then again, catt roots might be hardier  Otherwise, I was just trying to illustrate the point that lots of goo in semi-hydro doesn't per se mean bad roots.


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## gonewild (Jan 25, 2007)

johnndc said:


> Well, I wasn't thinking that it mattered for slippers in s/h vs. other roots, but then again, catt roots might be hardier




Well, when it comes to being too wet Catt roots may be even more sensitive to rot than slippers since the are usually epiphytic on trees and in Nature are hardly ever subjected to prolonged over wetting. Whereas most slippers grow on the ground are are subjected to some periods of supper wet root zones. (maybe?)

Do you have trouble with algae clogging the drainage holes like Heather mentioned? I don't consider your pots as having an excess of algae. The roots in your pots look great.


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## johnndc (Jan 25, 2007)

Sometimes things slow down, I can tell the water is running out slowly or not at all out of one hole, but then I just poke it with my finger and it runs again LOL I haven't had the nerve to repot this thing since it's going so well, but fear I may have to soon - the thing is, I used a V8 bottle, and it's not perfectly smooth, has lots of indentations, so I'm hoping that won't make it harder to remove - otherwise, V8 plastic bottles are GREAT as semi-hydro containers - I make the hole maybe 2 inches up, to give it a bit more water.


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## gonewild (Jan 25, 2007)

johnndc said:


> Sometimes things slow down, I can tell the water is running out slowly or not at all out of one hole, but then I just poke it with my finger and it runs again LOL I haven't had the nerve to repot this thing since it's going so well, but fear I may have to soon - the thing is, I used a V8 bottle, and it's not perfectly smooth, has lots of indentations, so I'm hoping that won't make it harder to remove - otherwise, V8 plastic bottles are GREAT as semi-hydro containers - I make the hole maybe 2 inches up, to give it a bit more water.



I bet your root ball does not slide right out! Just don't let a new growth hang over the side or it will really get stuck. But then V8 pots are cheap enough you can attack it with scissors. :rollhappy:


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## Cinderella (Jan 26, 2007)

BTW another way you can tell when you need to repot is the container gets very hard, when you squeeze the sides there is no movement at all in the plastic. This usually means it is chock full o' roots.


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## Grandma M (Jan 26, 2007)

Possibly I am over doing it a bit but I want to play safe. 

I use clean media and always wash and then boil the old media just to be safe. I repot only when they outgrow the pot, or a lot of algea is growing and blocking the holes, which isn't very often. I think I have only had to repot because of algae 4 or 5 times. If some of the balls stick to the roots I don't remove them because I don't want to risk damage to the roots. 

I just combine all used media in a bucket, both PA and Hydroton. Maybe that isn't wise but it is too much work trying to keeping them separate, especially now that the new PA looks so much like Hydroton.

I always soak my media with KLN when I am going to repot.

I have more than 450 plants growing in my home using S/H under lights. I only have a few which are in either bark or CHC. At this time I have quite a number of phaphs which are becoming pot bound so I will need to do some repotting soon. My paphs especially love S/H

Grandma


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## Park Bear (Jan 26, 2007)

I see a lot of discussion about algae. I have always used barley straw to control algae. I have used it in my pond in my pond with pretty good success. The only problem is that it does not work fast, but it you are patient it will work. I use it from day one on my ponds (especially early in spring) and I have used it for my s/h orchids and I don't ever have algae problems. Just steep some straw and water periodically with it. I don't do it all the time maybe once a month; a little more in the summer when they are outside.


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## gonewild (Jan 26, 2007)

Park Bear said:


> I see a lot of discussion about algae. I have always used barley straw to control algae. I have used it in my pond in my pond with pretty good success. The only problem is that it does not work fast, but it you are patient it will work. I use it from day one on my ponds (especially early in spring) and I have used it for my s/h orchids and I don't ever have algae problems. Just steep some straw and water periodically with it. I don't do it all the time maybe once a month; a little more in the summer when they are outside.



That is interesting. How much straw do you put in what volume of water for your orchids? Does it completely eliminate the algae?


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## Grandma M (Jan 26, 2007)

oops

I meant to say my PHRAGS really like S/H. My paphs do well also but my phrags grow like weeds in the stuff.

Grandma


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## Park Bear (Jan 29, 2007)

gonewild said:


> That is interesting. How much straw do you put in what volume of water for your orchids? Does it completely eliminate the algae?




It doesn't take much depending on how much you water. I keep a 55 galon drum full of water and I fill one of my wife's panty hose (i use one leg) full of straw. I run an air pump for circulation. If you already have a lot of algae it will take some time for it to go away. If you have bad algae in a pot, I would clean the algae and then use the straw treatment. If you have very bright lighting conditions I would water with the straw mixture more than I do.

I don't have hardly any algae in my pots, I think of it as preventive medicine not a cure.


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## bwester (Jan 29, 2007)

I'm getting out of s/h all together. I've had some plants seem to thrive in it, but also had a hell of a lot more die. Plus, that new crap ray has..... grrrrrrrrrrr


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## NYEric (Jan 29, 2007)

Park Bear said:


> I see a lot of discussion about algae. I have always used barley straw to control algae. I have used it in my pond in my pond with pretty good success.


Oh there you people go again, cracking me up! Tonight I'm going to by a camera so I can take and post a picture of my pond and my waterfall!:rollhappy:


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## gonewild (Jan 29, 2007)

For years people have been using barley straw to control algae in koi ponds and I never really paid any attention to whether it worked or not. After Park Bear said he used it on his plants I researched it a bit and found Tetra Pond sells Barley/Peat extract for pond algae control. So I bought a bottle and am trying it in recirculating tray water. The recommended dosage seems to weak to do anything but I'm trying it.


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## Grandma M (Jan 29, 2007)

Keep us posted on how the barley straw juice works. It sounds like a natural product which would not harm the roots.

I'm anxious to hear how it works.

Grandma


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## Park Bear (Jan 30, 2007)

I've never tried the Tetra stuff. I'd be interested in the results too.

Eric, I'm not sure what you are referring to, but I'm guessing a certain beverage.


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## Heather (Jan 30, 2007)

Park Bear said:


> Eric, I'm not sure what you are referring to, but I'm guessing a certain beverage.



Yes, Eric, just what are you talking about?


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## Tony (Jan 30, 2007)

Heather said:


> Yes, Eric, just what are you talking about?



His toilet, maybe? If that's the case I don't want to see the "waterfall"... :rollhappy:


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## NYEric (Jan 30, 2007)

Tony said:


> His toilet, maybe? If that's the case I don't want to see the "waterfall"... :rollhappy:


People where are your minds? I bought the camera but, just like the phone camera, the network wont let me install the software. I have another non-network computer at my desk which I'll set up so I can download pic's onto a disc. Then I'll show you my waterfall. Give me a day or two to get another monitor.


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## gonewild (Feb 4, 2007)

Grandma M said:


> Keep us posted on how the barley straw juice works. It sounds like a natural product which would not harm the roots.
> 
> I'm anxious to hear how it works.
> 
> Grandma



Barley straw concentrate update.....

After treating with the barley straw extract about one week ago the algae in the trays grew as normal. I treated the water with the recommended dosage of 1ml/gal. That seemed to me to be a pretty weak dosage but I tried it. It had no effect on stopping the algae at that dosage.

Today I'm treating with bleach and will follow up with a Barley treatment at 10x the recommended dosage to see if that will keep the algae from growing back.


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## johnndc (Feb 4, 2007)

Are you sure the algae is a problem? If it's blocking up the whole pot, then sure, address it. But if it's just "unsightly," personally I wouldn't add bleach - my plants seem to like the algae (again, provided it's not overwhelming).


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## gonewild (Feb 4, 2007)

johnndc said:


> Are you sure the algae is a problem? If it's blocking up the whole pot, then sure, address it. But if it's just "unsightly," personally I wouldn't add bleach - my plants seem to like the algae (again, provided it's not overwhelming).



Oh no... I'm not adding bleach to water the plants are in, never do that!
Our trays have recirculating water around and under the pots. The trays are clear Plexiglas and the algae is "unsightly", we like it clear, like having a clean aquarium. The algae is not a problem for the plants or care process.

Algae in the pots and growing media is not a problem for us and I agree with you it may be good for the plants.

However, if the Barley straw concentrate will control the algae in our trays it may be a good tool for those growers who want to control algae in their s/h pots. 

Just seeing what we can learn. :drool: 
So far I see I blew $16 on a bottle of hay water.  
But if it works on the next dosage. :clap:


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## Candace (Feb 4, 2007)

I'm not sure if this application would be useable or advantageous in a nursery setting, but we prevent and control algae in our 4,000 gal. koi pond with an external uv light. The water flows through the light and it kills off most of the algae leaving us with crystal clear water. I wonder if intalling a uv light in your water line would keep your water algae free.


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## Park Bear (Feb 7, 2007)

I've never had a bad outbreak of algae....I'm not surprised that the barley had no effect within a weeks worth of time. It has never been a quick fix, just preventative medicine over prolonged use.


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## gonewild (Feb 7, 2007)

Park Bear said:


> I've never had a bad outbreak of algae....I'm not surprised that the barley had no effect within a weeks worth of time. It has never been a quick fix, just preventative medicine over prolonged use.



Maybe the dosage was just to low. I did not expect a quick fix but I was hoping it would inhibit the growth of new algae from the start, which it did not do. I'm giving it another try with a stronger dosage.


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## Park Bear (Feb 7, 2007)

I'm sure my dosage is all over the place....my 55 gallon drum is very dark with tannins from the straw. Maybe it is beer now!


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## gonewild (Feb 7, 2007)

Candace said:


> I'm not sure if this application would be useable or advantageous in a nursery setting, but we prevent and control algae in our 4,000 gal. koi pond with an external uv light. The water flows through the light and it kills off most of the algae leaving us with crystal clear water. I wonder if intalling a uv light in your water line would keep your water algae free.



My system does not recirculate through pipes so there is no way to use UV. I'm not sure UV could keep up with algae control in a nursery setting where nitrogen levels are high, as opposed to an aquarium or pond where nitrogen levels are low. But it might work and is a good suggestion.


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## Darin (Feb 7, 2007)

Have you considered using some aquatic plants in the resevoir? A sort of Nitrogen scrubber? The aquatic plants use up the excess nitrogen thereby starving out the algae.

Darin


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## IdahoOrchid (Feb 10, 2007)

Darin said:


> Have you considered using some aquatic plants in the resevoir? A sort of Nitrogen scrubber? The aquatic plants use up the excess nitrogen thereby starving out the algae.
> 
> Darin



I think that is a good theory. In practice though I have a friend that has an aquarium set up with TONS of plants and he still has an algae problem.

I think that what Bear is saying about his treatment is think _sanderianum_, not _barbigerum_, for the expected results!!!!:rollhappy:


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## Park Bear (Feb 12, 2007)

That is a good analogy Steven


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## NYEric (Feb 21, 2007)

*Waterfall NYC indoor style*

This is why " my waterfall or my pond" is so funny to me. :rollhappy:


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