# Neem Oil



## Stone (Jun 27, 2014)

I've been having a pow wow on another forum about the effectiveness of neem oil. I say its not much good
Thoughts?


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## Paul (Jun 27, 2014)

not much good actually... 

you can use it occasionnaly, it makes the same "greening up" effect as kelp extract, but it can have bad sides effects (deposit on the leaves). So I prefer the kelp extract! 
slighlty phytotoxic too (on long term, decolorations)


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## Ozpaph (Jun 27, 2014)

Not much good for what?


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## ALToronto (Jun 27, 2014)

I thought neem oil was a pesticide. What else is it used for?


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## slipperscout (Jun 27, 2014)

In my experience the Neem oil products are poorly formulated emulsions which clogged my sprayers and were a marginally effective contact insecticide. 
For mealies I drenched every plant in the greenhouse with Talus twice at a 1 month interval at the concentration of 1 tsp/gallon. No mealies even after 1 year!!


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## NYEric (Jun 27, 2014)

I use Neem oil in my pesticide formula, I think it works.


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## Justin (Jun 27, 2014)

i don't like it. pretty useless on spider mites, which is what i have tried to use it on in the past.


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## abax (Jun 28, 2014)

Neem oil is not very effective and doesn't smell particularly good either.


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## Stone (Jun 28, 2014)

NYEric said:


> I use Neem oil in my pesticide formula, I think it works.



But is it the oil smothering the pest or the chemical doing the job?


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## limuhead (Jun 28, 2014)

I think the neem extract, I think its called used with Dr. Bonners liquid soap works on just about any insects. The problem with pure neem oil is that it too thick and leaves a nasty residue. Used with soap it works great.


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## Ozpaph (Jun 28, 2014)

My guess is smothering. What do you use for mealy bugs etc, Mike?


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## cnycharles (Jun 28, 2014)

There is part of the oil, azidaractin (sp) that is supposed to be an insect growth regulator, and the whole is supposed to help encourage some bugs to not chew on the leaf, and another part that may be slightly anti fungal. Like with any organically sourced material, how it's treated and/or stored can protect or negate these effects (the right chemicals break down)

Azidaractin is the main ingredient in some greenhouse igr's, (insect growth regulators) and those pesticides work well. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NYEric (Jun 28, 2014)

Stone said:


> But is it the oil smothering the pest or the chemical doing the job?


I'm not sure, I use it in a mix with Dr. Bonner's lavender oil soap, which thins it. The mix also has water, alcohol, and for potency, Merit 75!


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## Justin (Jun 28, 2014)

i have not had any kind of bug problem on my orchids since i went to a coctail of Enstar II AQ and Decathlon 20.


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## iwillard (Jun 28, 2014)

Neem oil,triple action! whatever that means,it just didn't work ridding mites in my greenhouse.

Bought horticultural oil and had AzaMax ( Azadirachtin extracted from neem oil) on hand,mixed those 2 and used it once a week,so far so good as long as it is done in the middle of the night :sob: with a flashlight on hand since everything is kicked out after mighty mite infestation. 4 weeks is now gone and some plants suffered due to mites eradication program but the good news,new growths are appearing along with new roots.


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## NYEric (Jun 28, 2014)

I believe mites are usually a result of low humidity. My floors attest to that not being our problem. Good luck w/ Neem, but as I said, not alone.


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## Hera (Jun 28, 2014)

In my situation Azamax has been effective with mites but not very effective with mealies. I use Malathion or Bayer rose and flower for mealies.


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## Stone (Jun 28, 2014)

Ozpaph said:


> My guess is smothering. What do you use for mealy bugs etc, Mike?



Confidor and malathion. Luckily I don't get many. What is diappointing is the the constant dumbing down of Chems so its getting harder and harder to get things that work. Of course all this chemical phobia pushed by shows like Gardening Australia and others. They like to promote ridiculous things like garlic spray and chilli spray. Obviously they have never grown orchids in a greenhouse!
This year I had a terrible infestation of boiduval scale. Really hard to control.
I went thru every single orchid in the glasshouse and prayed every square mm of each with oil/malathion. But if you miss just a couple of females you're back to square one.
I need to get Supracide from somewhere! Something that rips your face off:evil:


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jun 28, 2014)

I've never found neem to be effective. The straight oil may work, but it's thick and it stinks, and is no better than sunspray oil, which is great on scales.


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## cattmad (Jun 29, 2014)

Stone said:


> Confidor and malathion. Luckily I don't get many. What is diappointing is the the constant dumbing down of Chems so its getting harder and harder to get things that work. Of course all this chemical phobia pushed by shows like Gardening Australia and others. They like to promote ridiculous things like garlic spray and chilli spray. Obviously they have never grown orchids in a greenhouse!
> This year I had a terrible infestation of boiduval scale. Really hard to control.
> I went thru every single orchid in the glasshouse and prayed every square mm of each with oil/malathion. But if you miss just a couple of females you're back to square one.
> I need to get Supracide from somewhere! Something that rips your face off:evil:



get some crown from garden city plastics, cleans up mealies & scale very quickly.


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## Dido (Jun 30, 2014)

I have good result with it but with enulsifier used. 
I use the one from Neudorf from time to time on my orchids. As the only Problem I have are mealy bugs.


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## Stone (Jun 30, 2014)

cattmad said:


> get some crown from garden city plastics, cleans up mealies & scale very quickly.



Are you saying they sell supracide to the general public?


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## couscous74 (Jun 30, 2014)

Neem oil stinks. It keeps me away from the orchids, and thus I don't see the mites anymore.


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## gonewild (Jun 30, 2014)

Neem oil works great if you are inclined to live "organic".
Not that it is very effective at killing a broad range of pests but if you don't use pesticides it works better than nothing.

But if you don't mind using toxic chemicals Neem is a waste of time.

There is a big interest in the tropics now to plant Neem trees around houses. People say it helps to repel mosquitoes from it's vicinity. So maybe when used as a spray it actually repels the insects rather than kill them.


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## Secundino (Jul 2, 2014)

Neem oil's active ingredient azidirachtin will possibly be no longer allowed in organic agriculture (mainly because it does not work selectively) in Europe. It smells and works as long as you apply it like your formulation tells. But this is true for every pesticide. Very important are the intervalls one should observe. Especially with scales. 
I don't use it. As pyrethrin-containing pesticides do harm orchid tissues (not all groups) I'm back to household formulas and mechanic intervention. With some 300 plants it is still manageable.


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## gonewild (Jul 2, 2014)

Secundino said:


> You should contrast informations. Neem oil's active ingredient azidirachtin is no longer allowed in organic agriculture.



Who does not allow it?


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## NYEric (Jul 2, 2014)

Secundino said:


> Neem oil's active ingredient azidirachtin will possibly be no longer allowed in organic agriculture (mainly because it does not work selectively) in Europe. It smells and works as long as you apply it like your formulation tells. But this is true for every pesticide. Very important are the intervalls one should observe. Especially with scales.
> I don't use it. As pyrethrin-containing pesticides do harm orchid tissues (not all groups) I'm back to household formulas and mechanic intervention. With some 300 plants it is still manageable.


I use neem because I think it works and there is no resistance building issue. As it is a natural material I would think that it is typically a "household formula". BTW you need more plants!


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## Secundino (Jul 3, 2014)

Oh yes, I need more plants!! 
By 'household fomula' - I apologize for my bad english - I meant a formula extracted, mixed and prepared by oneself. Like garlic and onion decoctions, equisetum preparations and stuff like that. Like the one I use now, a bit of detergent - as wettening agent - and isopropyl-alc and water. A stick, brush, lots of patience and infected plants. 
Neem has a few advantages - like it does not affect bees, does not affect adult insects, is quickly destroyed without leaving metabolites etc. But it has also negative properties. As far as I know it acts upon the metabolism of larvae when changing moulds. That means it could affect as well predators like Coccinella and other wanted insects. And it will not affect adult shieldcritters, our beloved scales... 
Then, it does only work at its best when highly emulsified. As I don't buy it I think there are a lot of formulas on the market, from azadirachtin to neem extracts, in solutions and emulsified to different degrees. And oil. This last, I think, could be contraproductive for the use we want.


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## lepetitmartien (Jul 5, 2014)

Neem smell is directly related to it's age, the newer it is the less stinky it will be. It will smell, yes, but not to the point you can't enter the GH. Plus as you point rightly, the emulsion must be done right.

Neem was forbidden in France, then not. I have not heard of a Euro wide rule out but its status is currently very confusing and they seem to still fight over it in Brussels.

Beware of garlic/onion, as they are reservoirs for viruses that can harm orchids. I'm not saying it's not effective, on the contrary, but the cure can be more dangerous than the issue in the long term, especially if you're dealing with sucking/leaf eating pests.


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