# Phrag.Leslie Garay (prev.Grande)



## Redtwist (Dec 24, 2017)

The petals are still lengthening, but thought I might not get the chance to take some more pics over Christmas.
Bought as Phrag.Grande, but as I understand it this is now classed as Leslie Garay (longifolium x caudatum). Either way, has the pink and green combo I was hoping for!








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## blondie (Dec 24, 2017)

Very nice bloom congrats and an very healthy plant doing a great job.


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## John M (Dec 24, 2017)

Beautiful!

So, what is Grande supposed to be now?


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## Erythrone (Dec 24, 2017)

John M said:


> Beautiful!
> 
> So, what is Grande supposed to be now?



(Phrag. longifolium x Phrag. humboldtii)


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## Ozpaph (Dec 24, 2017)

well grown


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## chris20 (Dec 24, 2017)

Love it.


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## abax (Dec 24, 2017)

Lovely flowers and a good Phrag. that blooms well and
often.


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## Phrag-Plus (Dec 25, 2017)

Very nice!


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## cnycharles (Dec 25, 2017)

Very nice flowers congrats 


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## Phrag-Plus (Dec 25, 2017)

John M said:


> Beautiful!
> 
> So, what is Grande supposed to be now?





Erythrone said:


> (Phrag. longifolium x Phrag. humboldtii)



The caudatum and its hybrids were the greatest source of confusion in the last decade…
If the parentage is not found on the tags or not enough explicative we should keep the epithet Grande for the plant not to bring more confusion.

In the past even some caudatum allies were mixed together too… And remember the difficulties to find a real humboltii on the market in that time because some were mixed with caudatum. In that period of time even some Grande were awarded as caudatums…etc… 

But if the parentage of the Grande on the tags are well identified we can change our label but it will always be a guessing game. 

The nomenclatures for the new hybrids with well identifying parentage are:

Leslei Gary caudatum x longifolium 
Woosner Super Grande = humboltii x longifolium (popwii or warczewiczii or warzcewiczianum )
Paul Eugene Conroy = warczewiczianum x longifolium (aka walissii) ) 
Faust's Majestic Lace = exstaminodium x longifolium


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## John M (Dec 26, 2017)

Wow, what a nomenclature mess! Thanks Jean-Pierre for the detailed info. However, according to your name list, Grande doesn't even exist now. You show that longifolium x humboltii is Woosner Super Grande. What is plain Grande? Nothing?

Thanks!


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## tomkalina (Dec 26, 2017)

John,

Phrag. Grande was registered by Veitch in 1881 as being a hybrid of (caudatum x longifolium). Phrag. Leslie Garay was registered in 2012 by Olaf Gruss as being a hybrid of (caudatum x longifolium). Since he is a member of this Forum, maybe Olaf can enlighten us.


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## Phrag-Plus (Dec 26, 2017)

John M said:


> Wow, what a nomenclature mess! Thanks Jean-Pierre for the detailed info. However, according to your name list, Grande doesn't even exist now. You show that longifolium x humboltii is Woosner Super Grande. What is plain Grande? Nothing?
> 
> Thanks!



Unfortunately I have to agree Grande name will turn out to be ancient history in the future hybridization and registration.

But the old hybrids and their clones should be kept as Grande. The confusion is already difficult to take we don’t have to push the bottom further. And I’m not talking about the 55 crosses made with Grande to date who will add to that confusion too.


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## tomkalina (Dec 26, 2017)

I'm not an expert on RHS hybrid registration, but I thought you could not rename a hybrid if the parents were the same as that of a previously registered hybrid. Has this changed?


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## Phrag-Plus (Dec 27, 2017)

tomkalina said:


> I'm not an expert on RHS hybrid registration, but I thought you could not rename a hybrid if the parents were the same as that of a previously registered hybrid. Has this changed?



You are right it is what I thought too!


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## e-spice (Dec 31, 2017)

My Grandes are staying Grandes.  If that makes sense.


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## Phrag-Plus (Jan 1, 2018)

e-spice said:


> My Grandes are staying Grandes.  If that makes sense.



This is what we should and must do to minimize the confusion.


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## SlipperFan (Jan 5, 2018)

Mine, also. But this doesn't look like any of my Grandes.


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