# Oncidium question: leaf curl



## Bluefirepegasus (Nov 19, 2007)

A friend of mine recently gave me some of his oncidium hybrids that weren't growing so well. He decided to grow only phals instead. They were pretty haggard looking when I got them and many of them have leaf curl/crimping on the newest growths. I suspect this may be a sign of under watering so i have been watering them properly and fetilizing 'weekly, weakly'. I also am thinking perhaps they need to be repotted if they aren't blooming. However, some of them are in clay rocks which I have been told they can be left in for the rest of their lives. 

Any advice or opinions would be appreciated. I just want to do the best I can to get them back on their feet. 

Bluefirepegasus


----------



## Gilda (Nov 19, 2007)

You are right about the crimping of leaves..that is due to underwatering. It sounds like it is growing semi hydro...and they can be left alone for years. Is the pot over flowing with growths ? If so , it might need to be repotted, or watered more frequently. I have an oncid. Sweet sugar , Colm. Wildcat & a Sharry Baby in semi hydro and all are doing great.


----------



## Bluefirepegasus (Nov 19, 2007)

I also have sweet sugar and wildcat. There are a few in the pots with the compressed clay beads in them that appear to have pushed themselves up out of the pot. I suspect I need to repot them....but should I just use the same compressed clay or will the plan care? 

Also, this is rather a stupid question but how long until I don't see anymore leaf crimping? And should I water more frequently than everything else? I usually take everyone to the bathtub and turn the shower on them for about 10-15 minutes. Then, I fertilize and leave the doors closed overnight so everything has roots that turn green to absorb the water. I do that once a week. Then, everything gets misted by hand in the morning and at night. Think that is enough?

Bluefirepegasus


----------



## SlipperFan (Nov 19, 2007)

Unfortunately, once the leaves are wrinkled like that, they will always be. The hope is for the new growth to be OK. 

You have to be careful with oncidiums. Their growth habit is climbing, and by the time the plant has roots outside the pot, the ones inside are often rotted.

Underwatering can cause the leaves to wrinkle, but so can a lack of humidity. Misting, I'm afraid, doesn't last long. It would be better to increase the local humidity with a humidifier, or some other technique. Increasing the watering without checking the status of the roots could be deadly.


----------



## Bluefirepegasus (Nov 19, 2007)

Hmm...good thinking. I think many of the ones I recieved had not been cared for in a long time. I think it is time for me to get to the bottom of the pots and carefully examine all the root systems and re-organize. Do you think oncidiums and their related hybrids care what kind of medium they are in?

My house has high ceilings....do you think a humidifier will do anything for them or perhaps humidity trays would be better?

Bluefirepegasus


----------



## SlipperFan (Nov 20, 2007)

Humidity trays may help a little, but I think a humidifier would be more effective. Get one where you can control the output and that has a large reservoir. And also if you don't already have one, get a humidistat.


----------



## Bluefirepegasus (Nov 20, 2007)

a humidistat? what exactly is that and where can I get one? How much do they cost?

Bluefirepegasus


----------



## SlipperFan (Nov 21, 2007)

Do I have the wrong name? I guess it's called a hygrometer. It's like a thermometer only it reads humidity. Some devices read both. Charley's Greenhouse has them: http://www.charleysgreenhouse.com/index.cfm?page=_a2&cid2=359&cid1=182


----------



## goldenrose (Nov 21, 2007)

A humistat would control a humidifier. 
Check your local Ace, Lowes, Menard's or Home Depot for a hygrometer, why pay for shipping if you get can get it around the corner.


----------



## Bluefirepegasus (Nov 26, 2007)

What do you guys think about humidity trays? My husband was worried that a humidifier would encourage the growth of mold. I have been sick inside my lungs this year and won't be able to withstand much mold at all. Do you guys think that the trays would mimick the humidifier well enough? I would just have to change the water out a lot I think and keep things really clean. 

What do you think?

Bluefirepegasus


----------



## Candace (Nov 26, 2007)

Humidity trays don't raise humidity much at all. They're great at catching spills, but do little to nothing for plants. I love the comparison raised on another forum. An open toilet raises the humidity in a bathroom as much as a humidity tray does for plants.


----------



## Bluefirepegasus (Nov 29, 2007)

Well shoot! I was counting on them to help me out. I was looking at a humidifier and my husband brought up the point of mold. Have you ever had any trouble with mold caused by your humidifier? I got really sick this year and my lungs won't be able to handle any mold. We have carpet so I wonder if that will be a factor?

Bluefirepegasus


----------



## SlipperFan (Nov 29, 2007)

I think it depends on how much humidity you pump into the air. You shouldn't have a mold problem if you keep the humidity between 50 - 60%, with good air movement.


----------



## goldenrose (Nov 30, 2007)

I agree with Dot. Could one even get 50-60% humidity inside a house? If your getting mold obviously, it would be too high, something you wouldn't want to chance.


----------



## swamprad (Nov 30, 2007)

I grow under fluorescent lights on trays filled with water, and my humidity stays between 49% and 60%. I have a hygrometer with a max/min feature that I check every morning and reset. It's interesting that several of you say that the trays of water don't have much effect on humidity. Maybe my baseline humidity is already high, even without the trays. (I do live in the humid South.) One thing's for sure, the trays grown nice green algae and smell bad!  I've added some algacide to the trays, which helps for a while.


----------



## Bluefirepegasus (Dec 4, 2007)

Gah! I really need to get a better set up. I wish it didn't cost so dang much! I have eight foot ceilings in the room where my orchids are---they are in the living room which is open with the kitchen. It is very big. I wonder if a humidifier would even affect the orchids because of the open spaces? Ideas? Thoughts?

Bluefirepegasus


----------



## goldenrose (Dec 4, 2007)

I put my humidifier with the orchids, they like/need the air movement and we benefit as well.


----------



## Bluefirepegasus (Dec 4, 2007)

think a humidifier in the open living room will help them goldenrose? if it will I will invest in one for sure. do you have carpet where you have your humidifier? ours would be on carpet so I wonder if that means mold?

Bluefirepegasus


----------



## goldenrose (Dec 5, 2007)

Would a humidifier help the plants? YES! I have a GH, when plants are in bloom they're in my house or if they need higher temps than what I want to heat the GH.
Do I have carpeting? YES - infact too much of it with 4 dogs!
Do I have any allergies or sensitivity to molds? Nope, not that I'm aware of.
In my opinion, mold on anything means several things - it's been wet too long, isn't drying out, humidity too high, air circulation poor.
Do I live in the south - NO, I live in the midwest, it's dry indoors, this is the time of year for alligator skin for most of us! 
You have to do what's right for you. It may appear that we have some things in common but actually we're on almost opposite ends because of our geological location & individual health.
How many plants do you have? 1-1 1/2 gal.humidifiers run $25-30, which might be adequate for an area where the plants are but may not have much impact on the whole room depending on the size. Another possibility for a small collection - it may not be pretty but it's temporary - enclose it in plastic/vinyl??? You'd be making a mini GH inside, it would be easy to raise the humidity within that area & not affect your health! 
Good luck - I'm sure something will work out!


----------



## Corbin (Dec 5, 2007)

Candace said:


> Humidity trays don't raise humidity much at all. They're great at catching spills, but do little to nothing for plants. I love the comparison raised on another forum. An open toilet raises the humidity in a bathroom as much as a humidity tray does for plants.



I am going to have to differ with you on this one Candace. I grow in a light stand with two shelves. The whole stand is enclosed and I have humidity trays that cover the whole shelf. I monitor with a min/max instrument and record temps and humidity daily. When I see a drop in the humidity that is above the norm I check the trays and the vast majority of the time one or more of the trays will be dry. I will admit that I have a fan on each shelf and the fan is directed so that part of the air current hits the tops of the humidity trays. I am sure the air movement picks up more moisture. As a general rule each self will evaporate into the space one to one and a half gallons of water a week. The humidity in the enclosure, depending on the temperature, will run between 60 and 80 percent while the room itself is maintained at a comfortable temp and humidity.


----------



## Candace (Dec 5, 2007)

> The whole stand is enclosed



There you go...it's not a room. Just like open toilets don't add humidity to a bathroom. Humidity trays may make someone feel like a better mom, similar to misting plants. But a humidifier is a much better source of adding humidity to a room.


----------



## Corbin (Dec 5, 2007)

Candace said:


> There you go...it's not a room.



Ouch1oke: but maybe it would be a way for her to go. They do not cost much (let me qualify that) if you build it yourself or start with some cheep shelving. It might be less costly then trying to humidify the whole space and it could advert the health issue.


----------



## Bluefirepegasus (Dec 9, 2007)

Thanks for the advice. Both are very good suggestions. I think I will have to just ask my doctor about the humidifier and if he says no then go with the idea of making a mini green house indoors!  Getting big ideas already!  You guys are so helpful! 

Bluefirepegasus

P.S. How do you guys feel about compressed clay for media? I have some oncidiums in it and I am not sure whether they should stay in it.


----------



## Ellen (Dec 9, 2007)

Oncidium-type plants are really tough. If your plants have been neglected for years, it's probably a good idea to take them out of their pots, remove anything that's dead or rotten, and repot into the smallest possible pot. Everybody has their own favorite medium. I use a mixture of small bark, perlite and charcoal. You can also use a mix of sphag and perlite, you just have to make sure that you wait until the medium is dried out before watering again. Humidity trays don't do very much except a few inches from the tray. If you have very dry air, a small room humidifier as suggested by Slipperfan would be much more effective. You can get one at any box store. The frustrating thing is that you probably won't see much improvement until the plants put out new growth. Good luck!


----------



## goldenrose (Dec 10, 2007)

Bluefirepegasus said:


> .. How do you guys feel about compressed clay for media? I have some oncidiums in it and I am not sure whether they should stay in it.


There are quite a few that grow in hydroton, saves on repotting as well! If it's working for the plant, leave it alone!


----------



## NYEric (Dec 10, 2007)

Well, I've finally read enough. Your plants could have been suffering from overwatering or underwatering; you have to check. If they're in s/h media, I don't care what anyone says, it holds salts so it must be flushed. and on the subject of humidity trays, of course they add humidity because the water that evaporates out of them is added humidity that wouldn't be there w/out the trays. Of course a toilet adds humidity but there are more attractive ways to do it.


----------



## Candace (Dec 10, 2007)

The fact that humidity trays do evaporate water, doesn't mean they raise the humidity in a room to an extent that it's a benefit for plants. And I'd suggest you actually grow in s/h before giving advice about it.


Edit: Do this test. Take your humidity meter and go into your bathroom open the lid, look at your meter, close the lid look at your meter. Heck wait a couple of hours after closing the lid. See what I mean?


----------



## NYEric (Dec 10, 2007)

Actually the humidity added from the humidity tray has more to do w/ the surface area of the tray relative to the depth of the water, than the room. A toilet doesn't have the same evaporative surface. Although if you removed the toilet from your house you'd probably see a decrease in the direct and relative humidity. P.S. if the water in your trays evaporates in a few hours, move out of the desert.


----------



## Candace (Dec 10, 2007)

> Although if you removed the toilet from your house you'd probably see a decrease in the direct and relative humidity.



As Blake would say, "I have to call bullshit to that."


----------



## swamprad (Dec 10, 2007)

Hahahahaha....


----------



## Candace (Dec 10, 2007)

Here's a snippet of a humidity tray experiment done with bonsai over humidity trays vs. not...

"I did an experiment by placing two digital hygrometers (measure relative humidity) in the canopies of two bonsai trees that were under 12 inches tall. In the middle of the MI heating season, the before/after change in humidity when they were placed over humidity trays was only .4% (4/10 of 1%), which is a minuscule difference."

They're great marketing devices, though. Mind you, this is for grow rooms, windowsills etc. Enclosed, orchidarium type set-ups with humidity trays would be more effective.


----------



## SlipperFan (Dec 10, 2007)

But they do have a value -- you can set your plants on them and water them there. The water goes through the medium and into the trays. To me, watering this way is much easier that taking the plants to a sink, or bucket, or...

I wonder, did the experiment say how big the tray was???


----------



## Candace (Dec 10, 2007)

I'm sure just the typical size that's standard. 

But you're right they definately work perfect as you stated. Have you seen the ones that Charley's carries that have a nifty built in tube that you can can water your plants in place and then drain out the excess? Then when you don't need it, it looks like the tube slides back in and is hidden. Pretty cool.

Here's a link http://www.charleysgreenhouse.com/i...4&s=humidity table&cid1=-99&cid2=-99&cid3=-99


----------



## Bluefirepegasus (Dec 10, 2007)

i am thinking that the cause of the curl was definately underwatering. I talked to the guy i got the plants from and he said he only watered once a week. i think that is too little for most orchids. So far, I have seen some new growth and they are coming up not curled. I am happy about that. 

For soil, I finally got rid of the clay. There were all kinds of icky things in it so I just repotted in bark with perlite and charcoal. Easier to pick up too.

And for humidity....I think I am leaning towards a humidifier when I can afford it. I am greatful for everyone's advice. You guys have really helped me think about the problems I face growing inside a house. Not easy!  

Bluefirepegasus


----------



## NYEric (Dec 11, 2007)

Candace said:


> And I'd suggest you actually grow in s/h before giving advice about it.



Oh no Dearie, why would I want to go backwards, I grow in Hydro remember! oke:


----------



## Bluefirepegasus (Dec 14, 2007)

NY Eric what do you like most about growing in hydro? And do you mean like in hydro pots---the special pots with the two holes on the side that keep the orchid moist? If so, I tried it and there is only one plant i like to grow in it. Everything else just stayed too wet and I wasn't even watering that much. 

Bluefirepegasus


----------



## NYEric (Dec 14, 2007)

Look into the growing area megathread, you will see peoples areas. I grow my phrags in trays of circulating water. I'm going to try disas next if Gore Orchid has any left.


----------



## Bluefirepegasus (Dec 14, 2007)

I heard Disas were difficult. Your take on them?

Bluefirepegasus


----------

