# Phrag. besseae 'Carlisle'



## tomkalina (Jan 20, 2019)

One of our favorites in bloom in a sunny greenhouse this morning. HNS = 7.8cm PW = 2.6cm. We grow our Phrag. besseae breeding plants in 10 x 20 trays with bottom drainage and get really good plant growth. The only down-side is the trays take up a lot of bench space!


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## mrhappyrotter (Jan 20, 2019)

That's a very good quality flower for sure. Is it not awarded?


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## JasonG (Jan 20, 2019)

Great flower. Thanks for posting. How often do you need to clean the trays?


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## tomkalina (Jan 20, 2019)

We've never submitted it for AOS judging, but if it's still in bloom for the OGG show in Madison, WI in early February, we may try to wrestle the tray up there.
At one point, the AOS was thinking about allowing AOS judging teams from the local judging center to visit growers to judge plants in situ so to speak, but I don't think this idea ever left the ground.


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## tomkalina (Jan 20, 2019)

Jason,

The trays aren't cleaned until the plants are divided, and then the only thing we do is rinse them out to remove bits of bark and moss to make sure the drainage slots are open. We don't sterilize them.


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## Ray (Jan 20, 2019)

Tom, I think I know the answer (pretty much all of it...) but how much of the Travis occupied by the root system?


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## tomkalina (Jan 20, 2019)

The roots are long and run rampant by the time the plant is divided. Much longer than our besseaes grown in pots. The added root mass allows greater absorption of nutrients and the plant gets very large. Just measured an old growth on this clone and it had a 29 inch leaf span.


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## Guarceñosis (Jan 21, 2019)

tomkalina said:


> The roots are long and run rampant by the time the plant is divided. Much longer than our besseaes grown in pots. The added root mass allows greater absorption of nutrients and the plant gets very large. Just measured an old growth on this clone and it had a 29 inch leaf span.


Tom I see you use large pots for Phrag. What is the reason and the medium used? Is it acid or basic?

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## Guarceñosis (Jan 21, 2019)

Excelent flower and healthy plant.

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## Linus_Cello (Jan 21, 2019)

Does the tray method prevent stoloniferous vertical growth?


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## tomkalina (Jan 21, 2019)

Guarceñosis said:


> Tom I see you use large pots for Phrag. What is the reason and the medium used? Is it acid or basic?
> 
> Enviado desde mi SM-G955F mediante Tapatalk



We only use the 10 x 20 trays for our breeding plants, but if we had the bench space, I think we would grow most of our Phrags that way given the success we've had with the besseae's. In cases where we grow Phrags in pots, we use pots just large enough to contain the root mass of the individual plant. 

As far as our Phrag. medium, we've used the same formula for many years. It consists of:

8 parts seedling grade bark (1/8-1/4 inch particle size)
1 part #3 size charcoal approx (1/4-3/8 inch particle size)
1 part small perlite (approx 1/8 inch particle size)
1 part milled Canadian peat moss

For the long-petalled Phrag. species and hybrids, we replace the small perlite with Spong-Rok which has a larger particle size (approx 1/4-3/8 inch). For the Micropetallum species, we add a pinch of very fine dolomite lime to each pot. We don't use Orchiata because it just hasn't worked as well for us as our standard formula. Given the above formulation, I'd expect the mix to be acidic rather than basic, although we haven't done a pour-through pH.

Hope this helps. It works for us under our conditions, but that's not to say there aren't better formulas for particular circumstances. I've seen beautifully grown lady's slippers growing under what I would consider less than ideal conditions, so the plants are somewhat flexible. In the final analysis, what works for you, works for you.


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## tomkalina (Jan 21, 2019)

Linus_Cello said:


> Does the tray method prevent stoloniferous vertical growth?



It doesn't eliminate vertical stoloniferous growth, but I think it's less of a problem compared to growing in smaller containers. Some clones of Phrag. besseae seem to climb regardless of what you pot them in and others not so much. The closely related Phrag. d'alessandroi has shorter stolons with growths emerging closer to each other, so climbing isn't a problem; at least not in the clones we've seen.


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## Guarceñosis (Jan 21, 2019)

tomkalina said:


> We only use the 10 x 20 trays for our breeding plants, but if we had the bench space, I think we would grow most of our Phrags that way given the success we've had with the besseae's. In cases where we grow Phrags in pots, we use pots just large enough to contain the root mass of the individual plant.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot Tom for your detailed info.

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## Guarceñosis (Jan 21, 2019)

tomkalina said:


> We only use the 10 x 20 trays for our breeding plants, but if we had the bench space, I think we would grow most of our Phrags that way given the success we've had with the besseae's. In cases where we grow Phrags in pots, we use pots just large enough to contain the root mass of the individual plant.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Tom could you post a picture of the tray with this plant? Tks.

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## tomkalina (Jan 21, 2019)

Here's a photo of the plant growing in it's tray. Not sure if you can see it clearly enough to see the carpet of peat moss growing on the surface of the mix, but some have said the roots of the moss secrete amine compounds that are beneficial to the health of the plant.


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## Guarceñosis (Jan 21, 2019)

tomkalina said:


> Here's a photo of the plant growing in it's tray. Not sure if you can see it clearly enough to see the carpet of peat moss growing on the surface of the mix, but some have said the roots of the moss secrete amine compounds that are beneficial to the health of the plant.


Thanks a lot again. Interesting.

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## Guarceñosis (Jan 21, 2019)

tomkalina said:


> Here's a photo of the plant growing in it's tray. Not sure if you can see it clearly enough to see the carpet of peat moss growing on the surface of the mix, but some have said the roots of the moss secrete amine compounds that are beneficial to the health of the plant.


Tom, what is the depth of the tray? 10X20 are inches, right?

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## tomkalina (Jan 21, 2019)

10 x 20 inches x 2 1/4 inches deep. 
.


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## Guarceñosis (Jan 21, 2019)

tomkalina said:


> 10 x 20 inches x 2 1/4 inches deep.
> 
> .


Tks.

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## abax (Jan 21, 2019)

Tom, this flower is perfect...color, shape and stance.


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## tomkalina (Jan 22, 2019)

Thanks, Angela. Here's a photo I took this morning with the flower fully open. HNS = 8.4cm and PW = 2.8 cm. Wish I could get an AOS judging team out here to judge it because IMHO, it's awardable and I don't think it'll last until the Madison show in 11 days. Fingers crossed, though.


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## tomkalina (Jan 22, 2019)

Not sure why the photo is side-ways. If you click on it, it rotates to right side up. Gremlins.....


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## MorandiWine (Jan 22, 2019)

Great flower Tom! Do you know the parentage?

Tyler


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## tomkalina (Jan 22, 2019)

The original plant came from OZ years ago. For some reason, Z6777 sticks in my mind as being on the tag, but not 100% sure of that.


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## NYEric (Jan 23, 2019)

Yay besseae! Tom, what's, the ploidy of this plant, 4N?


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## Dandrobium (Jan 23, 2019)

Wonderful bloom & colour Tom!! I've been trying to self this cultivar for a while now, but it has resisted my efforts. It would be nice to know the ploidy. I've also got one in bloom at the moment in a bonsai pot.


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## tomkalina (Jan 23, 2019)

Not sure of the ploidy, but the plant is very robust and the flower has heavier substance than our other breeding clones.. We were able to self this clone a year or so ago and the seedlings are currently in compots, so they'll probably be available as individual seedlings this fall or next spring; current leaf spans are 2 inches so they have a ways to go.


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## littlefrog (Jan 23, 2019)

I use these (http://www.orchidmix.com/cat7.htm - look for the bulbophyllum pots). Not for everything, but a lot of my besseae/schlimii type plants. I'd say they were breeding plants but I don't have much luck breeding phrags anymore. Anything that I want to show, for sure.


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## NYEric (Jan 23, 2019)

Thanks. The leaves suggest extra chromosomes!


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## eaborne (Jan 26, 2019)

A beauty!


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## tomkalina (Feb 4, 2019)

tomkalina said:


> Thanks, Angela. Here's a photo I took this morning with the flower fully open. HNS = 8.4cm and PW = 2.8 cm. Wish I could get an AOS judging team out here to judge it because IMHO, it's awardable and I don't think it'll last until the Madison show in 11 days. Fingers crossed, though.



Turns out _I'm_ the one who didn't last until the Madison show last weekend. Fighting a cough and cold the week before the show and it just kept getting worse instead of better. Ended up with pneumonia, and steroids + antibiotics became the order of the day. My sincere apologies to the folks up in Madison; hoping to do the show next year. 

In any event, slowly improving over-all and looking forward to the upcoming MOS show in Madison Heights in late March. Here's the latest photo of 'Carlisle' with two flowers open on the same stem.


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## NYEric (Feb 4, 2019)

Sweet! Thanks for sharing.


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## tomkalina (Feb 20, 2019)

......and here's the final photo before we breed this clone. It's amazing, that the original flower lasted for 19 days before it fell off.


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## Don I (Feb 21, 2019)

Beautiful.
Don


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## Silverwhisp (Feb 22, 2019)

Eric, could you elaborate on this, please? Thanks~



NYEric said:


> Thanks. The leaves suggest extra chromosomes!


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