# I'd like to rant and ***** for



## abax (Mar 14, 2016)

just a moment please. I'm getting quite tired of mislabeled 
plants. It's becoming all too common particularly with
Paphs. and Phrags. I've been hearing it frequently from
reliable vendors that flasks they've bought have proved to
be mislabeled. At first I thought the problems were simple
mistakes, but I'm beginning to think there's some deliberate deception. For instance, I've bought three Phrags. from three different, reputable vendors and the
large plants were labeled fischeri. All three turned out to
be schlimii. How many "mistakes" have to happen to become deception? Might we, as customers, become a
bit more concerned and show it?


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## troy (Mar 14, 2016)

I feel your pain, alot of mine are misslabeled, I can imagine from how many different ways it could happen, but aaarrrgggghhhh!!!! dammit!!!! I'm next to positive a recent inquiry of mine is a hangianum not a brachy x hangianum, time will tell


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## NYEric (Mar 14, 2016)

If you want a guaranteed fischeri you should go to the Fischers.


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## eteson (Mar 14, 2016)

NYEric said:


> If you want a guaranteed fischeri you should go to the Fischers.



Or Glen Decker


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## Linus_Cello (Mar 14, 2016)

Buy one in bloom.
As for the hangianum, I was told that sometimes plants are purposely mislabeled as something else in order to get them in to the US. I guess since they are allowed now, not as much as an issue.


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## phraggy (Mar 14, 2016)

I bought a barbatum x nigrum from Germany --- turned out to be an appletonianum !!

Ed


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## trdyl (Mar 14, 2016)

I guess the safest way is to buy it in bloom and know what you are looking for.

I remember last spring a reputable grower was selling one. By the look of it, it was a hybrid and probably Hanne Popow. It was a very good one though but still a hybrid. In hind sight, I wished I would have picked it up.


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## troy (Mar 14, 2016)

You should be able to return yur appletonium for a tigrinum x barbatum or get a refund and keep the appletonium


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## tomkalina (Mar 14, 2016)

Angela,

Sorry to hear about your problem. Usually, the problem is with re-sellers and not the breeders who sell their own product. Vendors who have a breeding program and sell flasks/seedlings of their own breeding tend to keep very tight control at every step of the process, from seed capsule to finished product. That's not to say mistakes don't happen in the lab, but they are few and far between. When a vendor buys flasks or seedlings from other commercial sources for resale, however, it's a different story. The tight controls used by the breeders are sometimes not possible when the product changes hands along the way.


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## KyushuCalanthe (Mar 14, 2016)

Angela, the same thing happens in Japan, especially with online auctions - big surprise :rollhappy: I've heard more than one story about a rare form of Neo or D. moniliforme that turned out being something completely different, and not at cheap prices.


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## SlipperFan (Mar 14, 2016)

Another problem happens at greenhouses that are open to the public. People pick up a label to read it and sometimes don't put it back in the right pot, or don't seat it properly and it falls out. I've seen all that happen.


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## abax (Mar 15, 2016)

So Eric, how do I get in touch with the Fischers?

Tom, vendor I mentioned got a flask labeled fischeri that
turned out to be schlimii was from Glen Decker. I think that was an honest mistake and the vendor told me immediately when I asked about fischeri. Sad, but no
problem. However, the proliferation of amateur hybridizing compounds the problem of identification on
down the line. As you can see from the posts, this isn't
an isolated problem. Eventually, the breeder gets the
blame justified or not. I empathize being in the nursery
business...I really do. Another problem in our business is
the confusion concerning what constitutes a nursery and a
garden center. We sell large trees wholesale to garden centers
and large landscapers by the trailer truck load, not to retail
customers. Customers often don't know the difference and it's
the industry's fault for not properly identifying what business is
what.

You said it Dot. We used to have a garden center as well and the
tags ended up all over the place no matter how carefully we grouped
annuals and perennials together and each one tagged. Every morning was designated as put the proper tags back in the proper pots.

I have no solution to this problem, but I really think breeders and
vendors need to be thinking it through if they want trust from their
clients.


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## troy (Mar 15, 2016)

Vendors should have plant security officers during open house, whenever somebody pulls a tag out of a plant they get punched in the ribs


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## Linus_Cello (Mar 15, 2016)

SlipperFan said:


> Another problem happens at greenhouses that are open to the public. People pick up a label to read it and sometimes don't put it back in the right pot, or don't seat it properly and it falls out. I've seen all that happen.



Could sellers put a second tag in the bottom of the pot? Someone suggested that as a trick to prevent not knowing the plant from lost tags.


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## Hien (Mar 15, 2016)

abax said:


> So Eric, how do I get in touch with the Fischers?
> 
> Tom, vendor I mentioned got a flask labeled fischeri that
> turned out to be schlimii was from Glen Decker. I think that was an honest mistake and the vendor told me immediately when I asked about fischeri. Sad, but no
> ...


 According to the website, they don't have it anymore . I wonder why they don't make more of the plant that bear their name .
https://www.orchidweb.com/products/phrag-fischeri-4n-colchicine-treated-~152.html


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## Hien (Mar 15, 2016)

"Tom, vendor I mentioned got a flask labeled fischeri that
turned out to be schlimii was from Glen Decker. I think that was an honest mistake and the vendor told me immediately when I asked about fischeri."

Are you sure that the mistake flask is from Glen? The very good vendor that I bought my "mis-identified fischeri" plants from told me that the mixed up fischeri flasks are from a different breeder not Glen , and the blooming photo that alerted and prompted the seller to contact me with the attached photo looks like an unknown hybrid not a straight schlimii .
I also appreciate so much that when the seller saw one of the plant in bloom , I got contacted and informed that my plants are not fischeri with offer of correcting the mistake. That is great integrity on the part of the seller . I was so impressed that I bought even more plants from that seller .


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## NYEric (Mar 15, 2016)

abax said:


> So Eric, how do I get in touch with the Fischers





Hien said:


> According to the website, they don't have it anymore . I wonder why they don't make more of the plant that bear their name .
> https://www.orchidweb.com/products/phrag-fischeri-4n-colchicine-treated-~152.html



Yes, the Fischers are Orchids Limited in Minnesota, you can probably get a plant from Jerry and Jason.


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## abax (Mar 15, 2016)

I can't confirm that the plants are from Decker, but I believe the vendor and she said so. Hien your statement
illustrates just what I'm ranting about. This mislabeling is
happening everywhere intentionally or not. I'm purchasing from maybe three to four vendors that I really
trust and pass up other plants I'd really like to have because of the trust issue.

I can give it a try Eric.


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## NYEric (Mar 16, 2016)

Good luck.


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## JAB (Mar 16, 2016)

I spoke with Prof. Guido Braem about this before... LOL talk about getting someone fired up! 
Unfortunately there is a nasty combination of laziness and greed even in the orchid world. We have no clue what we have until the flower blooms. Best thing to do is not give said vendors business again, and you can go online and put them on blast. With social media now days their is no excuse for poor customer service nor rookie mistakes like "mislabeling."


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## cnycharles (Mar 19, 2016)

At my last employer where they sold many plug trays of mostly native perennials they stapled the tags to the tray
Of course that didn't help if you were using hedge clippers to cut back the top growth and the tag was cut also


Elmer Nj


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## abax (Mar 19, 2016)

We tried the staple thing one year and customers tore the
pots up trying to get them off. *roll eyes* That's just one of
the reasons we sold the garden center. Loved the business...
hated dealing with the public.

Eric, I've emailed and called the Fischers and get no answer. That's two vendors I've just given up on.


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## NYEric (Mar 20, 2016)

I will try during the week for you. I can also call Bill Goldner.


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## cnycharles (Mar 20, 2016)

abax said:


> We tried the staple thing one year and customers tore the
> pots up trying to get them off. *roll eyes*



Lol I did the same thing at work a few days ago. Was told the big 't' tags were loose and had to face towards the door. Saw one pointing elsewhere and couldn't get it out and the top came off the tag (it was stapled, not supposed to be unless it was bought from somewhere else)

Lately met a few people who'd had their own garden businesses and they gave up and started working for others because of customer issues (and weather). Wholesale does limit that a lot unless you decide to sell to big box customers, then you have giant headaches instead of lots of little ones


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## Linus_Cello (Mar 20, 2016)

cnycharles said:


> Lately met a few people who'd had their own garden businesses and they gave up and started working for others because of customer issues (and weather). (



Customer issue?


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## cnycharles (Mar 20, 2016)

The things like people taking tags out of pots, buying things somewhere else then killing it and bringing to you for a refund, people demanding a deal on prices, being difficult or obnoxious, bringing pets to sales areas, coming and asking advice for plants bought somewhere else and not buying anything from you, not following any given instructions for care then expecting refund, putting things in enclosed vehicles in sun or in back with no tarp and expecting refund when they die or look really bad complain to everyone what bad things you sell
Etc etc


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## PaphMadMan (Mar 23, 2016)

Yes, retail would be a much more pleasant occupation without any customers.


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## gonewild (Mar 23, 2016)

PaphMadMan said:


> Yes, retail would be a much more pleasant occupation without any customers.



That's how we ran our retail shop. The method has hidden issues.


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## ehanes7612 (Mar 23, 2016)

I hated the two months I worked in orchid retail (seattle orchid)...they have a great business plan..but , you just cant escape those customers who feel entitled to everything


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## trdyl (Mar 23, 2016)

PaphMadMan said:


> Yes, retail would be a much more pleasant occupation without any customers.



:rollhappy:

The customers that made me giggle were the ones that would try to bring a dead plant brown orchid back after a few weeks and would want a refund.


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## abax (Mar 24, 2016)

All these responses make me giggle now that I don't
have to put up with it anymore. My favorite story is the
couple who wanted their home landscaped with plants
they wouldn't have to water. This was right in the middle
of one of those hot summer mini-droughts. Whatchagonnado?

Regarding selling field grown trees, the big box stores set your
prices for you too. They also don't like the proper sized root
balls for the trees they sell. Oy vey!


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