# It's been nice, Chinese River Dolphin



## kentuckiense (Dec 14, 2006)

http://www.baiji.org/expeditions/1.html

Well, looks like the Three Gorges Dam has officially sealed their fate. It's our first large mammal extinction in quite some time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_River_Dolphin


----------



## NYEric (Dec 14, 2006)

Sorry to read this. It's a shame that another species could lose out to man's economic goals. Maybe CITES should look into the probable Paph. loss that will occur do to the rapid industrializaton in China. :sob:


----------



## kentuckiense (Dec 14, 2006)

NYEric said:


> Maybe CITES should look into the probable Paph. loss that will occur do to the rapid industrializaton in China. :sob:



For some reason, I think any Paph species would be better off _without_ CITES looking at it. CITES only deals with international trade; it says nothing nor deals with habitat loss, the real threat.


----------



## smartie2000 (Dec 15, 2006)

I agree let's ban CITES agreements regarding orchids!!!!!!!!!! There are way rarer plants than orchids that need more attention. CITES is the silliest law in the world.


----------



## kentuckiense (Dec 15, 2006)

smartie2000 said:


> I agree let's ban CITES agreements regarding orchids!!!!!!!!!! There are way rarer plants than orchids that need more attention. CITES is the silliest law in the world.


Ban it? I don't know about that... But it DOES need refining. As for CITES being the silliest law in the world: for Paphs and Phrags, yeah maybe. It seems to work ok for animals(animal parts), though.


----------



## Jon in SW Ohio (Dec 15, 2006)

CITES is no match for the all mighty dollar and habitat destruction is only going to increase. Would it be a success if there were still some Baiji in zoos around the world? Or would you rather see them as pictures on a Google search? 

Be thankfull for the plants and animals you are lucky enough to see in person, let alone provide shelter for...there's no guarantee they'll be around for a long time where they come from. I can think of a few plants and fish that would only be pictures if someone hadn't taken an interest in their care and ex situ reproduction.

Jon


----------



## kentuckiense (Dec 15, 2006)

Jon in SW Ohio said:


> CITES is no match for the all mighty dollar and habitat destruction is only going to increase. Would it be a success if there were still some Baiji in zoos around the world?


I'd put money on baiji being virtually impossible to keep in captivity, but I see your point.

I still think, ideally, that in-situ conservation is the most ideal. However, we obviously live in a very non-ideal world, so we definitely must do what we can. In terms of animals, I really wonder what the future of extinct-in-the-wild species are. Either they pass through the genetic bottleneck and everything turns out great or the recessive alleles take over and everything croaks.


----------



## Sangii (Dec 15, 2006)




----------



## Rick (Dec 15, 2006)

kentuckiense said:


> I'd put money on baiji being virtually impossible to keep in captivity, but I see your point.
> 
> I still think, ideally, that in-situ conservation is the most ideal. However, we obviously live in a very non-ideal world, so we definitely must do what we can. In terms of animals, I really wonder what the future of extinct-in-the-wild species are. Either they pass through the genetic bottleneck and everything turns out great or the recessive alleles take over and everything croaks.



After working in the zoo biz for 13 years I've seen a handfull of examples about what you are considering. You could probably see results all over the board. I worked with some extinct in wild african cichlids that seemed to not have any multigenerational issues with genetic inbreeding. Chetahs were a big concern, but I think they were still having some success.

And regular bottlenoses dolphins are have been breeding fairly well for some institutions, definitely better than pandas. So I bet they could breed the river dolphins if there were any left.


----------



## kentuckiense (Dec 15, 2006)

Rick said:


> And regular bottlenoses dolphins are have been breeding fairly well for some institutions, definitely better than pandas. So I bet they could breed the river dolphins if there were any left.


Did someone say pandas?

http://environment.guardian.co.uk/conservation/story/0,,1966664,00.html

_Another challenge was the risk of in-breeding. To widen the genetic stock, researchers had to come up with a way to find a mate for even the least popular females. How did they do that? "We tricked them," Zhang says with a smile. The "trick" is to put a fertile and attractive female into a breeding pen, where she leaves scratchmarks and droppings capable of exciting a male. But at the last moment the females are swapped. The zookeepers introduce a new, less popular, mate who has been scented with the urine of the more attractive animals. She is introduced into the mating pen rear end first, so the male cannot see the face of his partner until after they have finished copulating. "When the males find out, they get very angry and start fighting the female," Zhang says. "We have had to use firecrackers and a water hose to separate them."_


----------



## smartie2000 (Dec 15, 2006)

LOL good trick  Poor old male panda copulated on the wrong thing. Reminds me of male bumble bees and _Ophyrus_ orchids.


----------



## kentuckiense (Dec 15, 2006)

I can only imagine the roar of combined anger and despair that would be produced by a panda that was tricked into mating with one of the "ugly" ones.


----------



## Jason Fischer (Dec 16, 2006)

That's really sad news about the dolphins. I wouldn't be surprised to see more situations like this in the near future. Especially in China with their economy developing so fast. 

It's the human race population that is disturbing the balance of mother nature all over the world! I suppose that's why China limits each household to 1 child.


----------



## smartie2000 (Dec 16, 2006)

I'm sorry but China is a big F-ing screw up....it looks all great becuase of the ecomonic development to most of the general public here, but its a mess! And messier than many westerners know.
I am born here in Canada, but of chinese ethnicitiy and background, and I am in no way proud of the China we have today.

Examples of why: lack of pollution control (rivers are black with leather tanins-->people get rashes from touching water, smog, etc.), habitat loss, counterfiet everything (not just your LV purses that ppl like..it includes milk powder, antibiotics-things that can kill people), killing babies because they were female (abortion, drowning them, etc.), horrible human rights (people forced homeless to clear land, horrible injuries in factories to produce those cheap items we use-a single life seems disposable to the rich because there are so many of them, etc)....

The list can go on and on. The government cares nothing but to industrialize the country. The chinese people especially the rich and bureaucratic have to stop and think about the crap thats going on to make the country look modern and presentable to the western people. They are too proud of the fact they can compete with westerners now and all they can think of is to build more and clear more land they are neglecting what is really important. Most of the damage done is irreverable!
I wonder how much damage was done to make the 2008 olympics look modern and presentable to us already. I know its gonna be a really big show (A lot of chinese talent and history to display), but you don't get to see the chaos and crap in the background to build that damned stadium and finish incomplete work (like a river dam) to show off to westerners.
Our precious river dolphins, pandas and orchids will go extinct if they don't stop and many lives will be lost. Many of the consequences are irreversable. How on earth will they fix the black lake filled with leather tanins? Everything is dead in there.

There I'm done rambling I don't know if any of my sentences are clear or make sense


----------



## SlipperFan (Dec 16, 2006)

Makes all kinds of sense. Unfortunately, you could be describing just about any of the industrialized nations, and those that are hoping to become that. Not everything applies to all countries, of course, but we all seem to thing that progress is OK at the expense of the environment.


----------

