# paph phillipinense ????



## JeanLux (Nov 14, 2008)

The flowers of the plant I got with tag eliottianum opened and, for me, they look like phillipinense !!?? But I would need your confirmation or altern. proposals! Thanks Jean

the plant; stem size +/- 20 cm:




sepal length +/- 12 cm:




closer:


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## P-chan (Nov 14, 2008)

I don't know Paphs well enough yet, but it sure is beautiful!


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## bench72 (Nov 14, 2008)

really intersting shape to the staminode... i've never really noticed it on philippinense's....

there's something really fascinating and beautiful about this flower... 

thanks for sharing Jean.


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## Heather (Nov 14, 2008)

Tim's right - the staminode is weird...almost looks like there's some rothchilidianum in there? I dunno. The petal stripey color also seems a little funky for philippinense.


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## Roy (Nov 14, 2008)

Jean, P. elliottianum was a name used for what is now known as P.rothschildianum. Yours is not a roth'. P.philippinense is more likely or a hybrid there of.


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## SlipperKing (Nov 14, 2008)

It looks like a very pale P.philippinense and nothing more then that. Sorry Jean I was hoping for adductum or something new when you first posted your purchase.


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## Damas (Nov 14, 2008)

That sometimes happens. Who has never lost a label ? Anyway, it's always a great disappointment but I am sure the prod will understand and do something to ease situation. I feel sorry for you JeanLux even if this phillipinense is still a very nice plant.


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## goldenrose (Nov 14, 2008)

You have a nice multi there! It will be interesting to see in a couple of days once the flowers open up more!


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## Candace (Nov 14, 2008)

Do take another photo in a few days when the open further. Grrr. Mislabeled plants make me grind my teeth!


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## Heather (Nov 14, 2008)

I still think it's a hybrid with phil. in it but that's just my opinion...


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## dan_t (Nov 14, 2008)

Well I don't know enough to hazard a guess, but I think it's fantastic whatever it is! If you ever work it out, I'll start looking for one to buy!

Dan


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## PaphMadMan (Nov 14, 2008)

Assuming the tag should actually read 'elliotianum _x something_' then the best guess might be elliotianum x philippinense. It is easy for long names to get truncated as tags are copied. Since elliotianum = rothschildianum, this would make your plant St. Swithin, but that can only be a guess unless the supplier can confirm it for you. Depending on the price and how long you've had it a reputable supplier should give you a partial refund for a mislabeled/No ID plant.


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## GuRu (Nov 14, 2008)

Heather said:


> I still think it's a hybrid with phil. in it but that's just my opinion...



I think Heather and PaphMadMan are on the right trail. The staminode isn't P. philippinenese like. And if you compare the staminode with that of P. rothschildianum a hybrid with it is most probably.

Best regards from Germany, rudolf


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## JeanLux (Nov 14, 2008)

PaphMadMan said:


> Assuming the tag should actually read 'elliotianum _x something_' then the best guess might be elliotianum x philippinense. It is easy for long names to get truncated as tags are copied. Since elliotianum = rothschildianum, this would make your plant St. Swithin, but that can only be a guess unless the supplier can confirm it for you. *Depending on the price and how long you've had it *a reputable supplier should give you a partial refund for a mislabeled/No ID plant.



Thanks a lot for your feed-backs!!

I got the plant 2 weeks ago, BS, for a very modest price, far from that of any spiking multi!  ! Jean


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## biothanasis (Nov 14, 2008)

FAntastic plant and flowers, Jean!!! Well done!!! VEry nice choice!!!


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## SlipperFan (Nov 14, 2008)

Nice flowers. Good luck with the name.


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## bench72 (Nov 15, 2008)

maybe elliotianum is not a synonym of roth at all... was there ever a plant tendered into a herbarium when elliotianum was described? maybe this is the long lost species


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## Bernhard Hilse (Nov 16, 2008)

I think it just opened. The staminode could become light yellow later on. I have one that looks a lot like yours. It is laevigatum. The flowers are usually a lot paler than the philippinense. Bernhard


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## JeanLux (Nov 16, 2008)

In the latest issue of 'Die Orchidee', the orchid journal of DOG, the german orchid society, Olaf Gruss, Lutz Röllke and Jürgen Röth publish a new description of a further philippinense variety: var. compactum from Palawan. As the pictures shown with the description had some resemblences with my plant, I pm-ed Olaf to ask his opinion about my thread, and here what he answered (with his authorisation):

Originally Posted by ORG 
Hallo Jean,
your plant looks really like the phillipinense var. compactum. I have seen around 100 plants and some of them differed also in staminode.

Viele Grüße

Olaf


So, this is interesting news!

Jean


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## JeanLux (Nov 16, 2008)

Bernhard Hilse said:


> I think it just opened. The staminode could become light yellow later on. I have one that looks a lot like yours. It is laevigatum. The flowers are usually a lot paler than the philippinense. Bernhard



Thanks Bernhard! Koopowitz considers laevigatum as var. of philippinense. does your's also have the indentation on the basis of the staminode and the rel. small stem? Jean


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## rdlsreno (Nov 16, 2008)

I do agree with Olaf. I have scanned a picture in a book taken by my friend Joel Dayao (Philippine book on orchids) in which they called it var laevigatum and stated that it is a small plant rarely 8 cm wide and small flowers. The flower and staminode looks like yours but paler

Ramon

Paph. philippinense var. laevigatum


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## John M (Nov 16, 2008)

The staminode does look too narrow for a regular philippinense; but, I don't think it's a hybrid with any roth in it. It's certainly not Paph. St. Swithin. It looks just like a philippinense except for the narrow shape of the staminode. 

For comparison, here's a photo of my Paph. palawanense. A.K.A. Paph. laevigatum [or, philippinense], v. palawanense for all you lumpers. The staminode on this plant is also quite narrow.






Here's a link to my thread on ST from 2 years ago.http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=386&highlight=miniature+laevigatum


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## Kyle (Nov 16, 2008)

John, did this plant parish in the freeze?


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## John M (Nov 16, 2008)

"John, did this plant parish in the freeze?"

Luckily, no. I don't understand why not. It was near the outside wall and was surrounded by other plants that were killed. It was right next to a huge, specimen Phal. Orchid World 'Joe' AM/AOS that was turned into wet mush by the next morning. This Paph didn't lose a single leaf to the cold. Whew! In fact, it bloomed again this summer; but, the flowers weren't nearly as good as the previous blooming two years ago; so, I cut the stem to save the plant's strength.

One thing that is interesting to note: The foliage is not soft, like a regular strap leaf Paph. The leaves are very thick, succulent and stiff, like a Mexipedium, or succulent cactus.


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## SlipperFan (Nov 16, 2008)

John, if you ever have any to sell that look like yours, I'd sure be interested!


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## rdlsreno (Nov 16, 2008)

SlipperFan said:


> John, if you ever have any to sell that look like yours, I'd sure be interested!



Me too!


Ramon


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## paphjoint (Nov 17, 2008)

FYI 


The book was written by Andres Golamco in 1991

I think you should have referred to the author when using pictures from his book oke:




rdlsreno said:


> I do agree with Olaf. I have scanned a picture in a book taken by my friend Joel Dayao (Philippine book on orchids) in which they called it var laevigatum and stated that it is a small plant rarely 8 cm wide and small flowers. The flower and staminode looks like yours but paler
> 
> Ramon
> 
> Paph. philippinense var. laevigatum


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## rdlsreno (Nov 17, 2008)

paphjoint said:


> FYI
> 
> 
> The book was written by Andres Golamco in 1991
> ...



Sorry I for got to do so. (I am bad). I was a contributor to that book by lending my photo and plant. Example the Paph. randsii at page 104.

Ramon


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## paphjoint (Nov 17, 2008)

No problem I won't tell him
So you know Andres too ?


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## paphjoint (Nov 17, 2008)

Unfortunately - this can only once again add to the confusion
the id is already made difficult by historical misinterpretations and personal ambitions and commercial interests too. 
as said elsewhere phillipinense is very widespread throught the phillippines - the compact form is not only found in palawan - but also on the mindoro Island and elsewhere too, 

putting a var compactum is on a plants is imo nonsense -- this will only generate more questions. 


my five cents or centimes if your prefer 






JeanLux said:


> In the latest issue of 'Die Orchidee', the orchid journal of DOG, the german orchid society, Olaf Gruss, Lutz Röllke and Jürgen Röth publish a new description of a further philippinense variety: var. compactum from Palawan. As the pictures shown with the description had some resemblences with my plant, I pm-ed Olaf to ask his opinion about my thread, and here what he answered (with his authorisation):
> 
> Originally Posted by ORG
> Hallo Jean,
> ...


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## rdlsreno (Nov 17, 2008)

paphjoint said:


> No problem I won't tell him
> So you know Andres too ?



Yes, In fact when he described Paph. adductum var anitum or Paph. anitum, I was the one who took all staminode pictures.


Ramon


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## SlipperKing (Nov 18, 2008)

rdlsreno said:


> Yes, In fact when he described Paph. adductum var anitum or Paph. anitum, I was the one who took all staminode pictures.
> 
> 
> Ramon


So Ramon, Does this mean you have anitum?????:evil:


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## rdlsreno (Nov 18, 2008)

Back in the Philippines. And still waiting for the CITIES to be given on the artificially grown seedlings.

Ramon


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## SlipperKing (Nov 19, 2008)

rdlsreno said:


> Back in the Philippines. And still waiting for the CITIES to be given on the artificially grown seedlings.
> 
> Ramon


Put me in the front of that waiting list too. PLEASE!


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