# Paphiopedilum gratrixianum - Vietnam



## ORG (Sep 4, 2009)

Here a very nice _*Paphiopedilum gratrixianum*_ from Vietnam, which I get some months ago










































With best greetings

Olaf


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## slippertalker (Sep 4, 2009)

Is this the "true" Paph gratrixianum as compared to the common Paph gratrixianum which is actually Paph affine? 

This is a lovely flower.


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## ORG (Sep 4, 2009)

I think so

Olaf


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## slippertalker (Sep 4, 2009)

One of the distinctions is that Paph affine has lots of spotting on the bracht and also distinct spotting at the base of the leaves, neither is seen with this plant which matches Christensen visitation of the rediscovery of Paph gratrixianum. I guess I need to change tags again.....


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## biothanasis (Sep 4, 2009)

Wonderful!!!!!!


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## baodai (Sep 4, 2009)

Olaf,
Correct me if i'm wrong, I think this gratrixianum come from Tuyên Quang instead of Hoàng Liên Sơn, Vĩnh Phúc or Thái Nguyên. It has larger spot than regular gratrixianum.
Thanks,
BD


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## SlipperFan (Sep 4, 2009)

That's a great dorsal, for sure!


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Sep 4, 2009)

Gorgeous plant..but the leaves seem a little narrow for the plant that Christenson has described as the "true" gratrixianum...the plants of that type that I have seen have wide leaves, resembling a complex paph rather than villosum or insigne. How much variation is there in leaf size and shape in the "true" gratrixianums? Take care, Eric


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## NYEric (Sep 4, 2009)

I really have no idea; but if it's the gratrix. that was commonly used for gratrix. x sanderianum it grows like a weed!


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## bench72 (Sep 4, 2009)

is this a different variety again to the var. daoense? also, do the leaves have the gratrixianum purple spotting towards the base?


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## ORG (Sep 5, 2009)

Dear Eric,
I think there is a great variation in the maculation and also in the leaves in Paph. gratrixianum and also villosum , depending from the locality where they were found.
I think my plant is very near to the plants which are seen nowerdays as the true gratrixianum without purple spots on the base of the leaves.
The flower looks ,also when it has more spots on the dorsal sepal, a bit similar the var. daoense, but I know only the description and have never seen a plant in flower.

Best greetings

Olaf


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## SlipperKing (Sep 5, 2009)

Fantastic Flower Olaf. thanks for posting it.


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## Ernie (Sep 5, 2009)

The world is definitely coming to an end... our "gratrixianum" is in bud too. That thing never blooms before January. It has long, narrow leaves super well marked, as is the bract. The pouch is the most beautiful mix of honey, pink, and peach tones. The color from the petals also streaks up into the dorsal. The petals curl backwards and hug the pouch a little. See a pic at our Paph gallery. One spicerianum is opening up too. 

-Ernie


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## bench72 (Sep 6, 2009)

Olaf, I have a gratrixianum var daoense which i had previously posted on Slippertalk.. here is the link - 

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6516&highlight=daoense


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## odin (Sep 6, 2009)

It is very nice,


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## Rick (Sep 6, 2009)

Eric Muehlbauer said:


> Gorgeous plant..but the leaves seem a little narrow for the plant that Christenson has described as the "true" gratrixianum...the plants of that type that I have seen have wide leaves, resembling a complex paph rather than villosum or insigne. How much variation is there in leaf size and shape in the "true" gratrixianums? Take care, Eric



I haven't dug up Christenson's article but I thought that his big leaf gratrixianum came from Burma rather than Vietnam (but I might have this backward). Averyanov's book shows a wide range of dorsal sepal spotting and floral habit for insitu plants in Vietnam, even from the same region.

Also If you remember the huge floral variation in two successive years blooming for one of Corbin's plants it seems that this species appearance is highly influenced by environment.

Will the "true" gratrixianum please stand up.


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## Rick (Sep 6, 2009)

Ernie said:


> The world is definitely coming to an end... our "gratrixianum" is in bud too. That thing never blooms before January. It has long, narrow leaves super well marked, as is the bract. The pouch is the most beautiful mix of honey, pink, and peach tones. The color from the petals also streaks up into the dorsal. The petals curl backwards and hug the pouch a little. See a pic at our Paph gallery. One spicerianum is opening up too.
> 
> -Ernie



Yikes I hope this doesn't mean an early hard winter


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## Rick (Sep 6, 2009)

slippertalker said:


> Is this the "true" Paph gratrixianum as compared to the common Paph gratrixianum which is actually Paph affine?
> 
> This is a lovely flower.



I found Christenson's OD article on the "Rediscovery of Paph gratrixianum" (OD 68 (3) 2004)

In his article the "true" gratrixianum:
Comes from Laos not Vietnam

Has 4 cm wide leaves

Has dense maroon marbling (almost like partially fused spots) that extend substantially up the base of the plant under the leaves.

Has a bract that is well spotted with purple

Has a central lower portion of the dorsal sepal that is green (not white as in Olaf's flower), with very discreet scattered purple spots.

So Olaf's plant does not really fit Christenson's definition of the true gratrixianum, but it sure looks like the bulk of the plants identified as gratrixianum by Averyanov in Vietnam.

According to Christenson, the heavily spotted forms of gratrixianum (as P affine, DeWildemann 1906) were thought to originate from Tonkin in Vietnam.

Looks to me like just a highly variable species overall.


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## Ernie (Sep 6, 2009)

I guess it makes sense that a taxon with a broad distribution also has marked variability. 

-Ernie


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## bench72 (Sep 6, 2009)

any splitter want to tackle this one?


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## tenman (Sep 7, 2009)

The most salient distinguishing features for me are the leaf width, the green background to the lower half of the dorsal, but most importantly the difference in staminode shape. The pic published with Eric's article (which, by the way, reads light and fun, showing taxonomic writing need not always be dry as dust!) shows a staminode shaped roughly like an upside-down heart, whereas the plant which is the subject of this thread, on close examination of the third pic, shows a staminode which is the reverse on the bottom, i.e., instead of being sharply indented it has a somewhat flattened point.

*NOW*, on to the most important consideration for all of us slipper freaks: where did Eric's pics come from, where are these plants, and how can we get some????


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## Rick (Sep 7, 2009)

tenman said:


> *NOW*, on to the most important consideration for all of us slipper freaks: where did Eric's pics come from, where are these plants, and how can we get some????



Don't know where the plants Eric took pictures of are now. At the time when that article came out Andy's Orchids offered me "wide leaf" Laotian gratrixianums. But since that was 4 or so years ago I don't know if they have any left.


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