# Vegetative Growth



## troy (Nov 14, 2015)

What do you think? Any suggestions will help


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## gonewild (Nov 14, 2015)

They look good to me.


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## troy (Nov 14, 2015)

Would higher nitrogen green them up?


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## papheteer (Nov 14, 2015)

Can you take a photo without flash?


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## gonewild (Nov 14, 2015)

troy said:


> Would higher nitrogen green them up?



They are green!
The color as it shows on my screen does not indicate any problem to me.

To answer your question more directly, no I dont think higher nitrogen would make them more green (darker).


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## papheteer (Nov 14, 2015)

If you're happy with their rate of growth then the colour doesn't matter. I personally prefer my plants to be rich green. The greener the plants are the faster they grow. That's all based on my experience.


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## troy (Nov 14, 2015)

The growth rate is so rapid its noticeable everyday, but the leaves are void of color, I'll have to wait till tomorrow, during daylight to take a picture without the flash


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## abax (Nov 14, 2015)

The new growth will darken up as the leaves get older. I
think you're over-worrying yourself. Orchid growing is
supposed to be FUN!


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## emydura (Nov 14, 2015)

I wish I had your problems.


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## NYEric (Nov 15, 2015)

Worse come to worst (not a sausage) add epsom salts to your fertiliser.


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## troy (Nov 15, 2015)

Already added epsom salts 2 weeks ago


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## papheteer (Nov 15, 2015)

I am an Epsom salt believer! I feed 1/4 tsp per gallon of water at least every 2 months. My tap water has way more calcium than magnesium.


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## Stone (Nov 15, 2015)

I would not give extra N to these plants. You will weaken them. Give them some K and a rest instead. :wink:


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## Brabantia (Nov 15, 2015)

Curious to know what is your feeding regime? And your culture temperatures?


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## troy (Nov 15, 2015)

Brabantia, every saturday I fertilize 4 weeks ago I use 1/3 ro mixed with my tap fertilize with (floralicious plus) seaweed base fertilizer very low numbers 2/.8/.02 3 weeks ago I use foliage pro 9/3/6 2 weeks ago I use epsom salts last week I use coco max 5/4/3 made by ata, I know guys at a hydro shop they give me samples of stuff, I alternate alot my night temp is 59-60 my day temp is 70-72 my humidity is 80 percent 24 hours a day. I grow under lights one shelf I have 3 2' foot t5s on the other I have 1 ballast 2 t8 bulbs 12 to 14 inches from the top of the plants 11 hours light period


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## PaphMadMan (Nov 15, 2015)

If growth rate is good nitrogen is not a problem. Another vote for no increase. Fast growth is commonly a bit pale to start.

If magnesium was an issue you covered it for now. Consider a light application of Epsom salts regularly rather than waiting to see a possible problem. That covers sulfur too, a sometimes neglected nutrient.

I assume your regular fertilizer use includes micronutrients, but it is worth double checking that iron and manganese are supplied. Do you supply calcium? Do you monitor pH?


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## troy (Nov 15, 2015)

I moniter ph my ro-tap mix buffers the ph, my fertlizers coco max has .35 ammoniacal nitro, 4.65 nitrate nitro, 4 percent soluble potash 4 percent phosphate, 3.03 magnesium, 7.57 calcium, .0013 molybednium, dyna gro (foliage pro) has most of the other micros, chelated zinc, copper, iron, manganese, and, molybednium, in all my different fertilizers sulfur is void??? I have a 16 16 16 grow more (sea grow) I use during the warmer months that has sulfur in it, I use these fertilizers 1 tsp per gallon there is also general hydroponics ( flora nova bloom) I will mix in every 6 months or so it's full of micro nutrients maybe toxic high levels? My tap water has quite enough micros


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## consettbay2003 (Nov 15, 2015)

For T8 bulbs 12"-14" is fine but for T5HO bulbs from my experience this is too close for paphs. 
I also think you ammonium to nitrate ratio is much too low. I would supplement so that your ammonium is at least equal to your nitrate. I would consider using ammonium sulphate as this will also help your low sulphur level.
I would aim for a ph of 5.8 in your fertigation solution.


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## troy (Nov 15, 2015)

Thank you consetta bay, next week I'll get something that has ammonium sulphate, my tap has virtually no sulphur, what do you use for fertilizer?


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## consettbay2003 (Nov 15, 2015)

I live in the EU so I use Akernes for rain water. This is comparable to MSU.
MSU (Akernes) is basically all nitrate so I supplement with ammonium sulphate.
I use 1 tsp. Akernes, 1/2 tsp. ammonium sulphate, 1/4 tsp. urea to 6 gallons of RO water. I add a pinch of trace elements and 24 ml of fulvic acid.
I then adjust to 300ppm and a ph of 5.8


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## troy (Nov 15, 2015)

Thanks for the info, I'll research fulvic acid, my bulbs are really close to the plants, from what you say I need to adjust them, thanks!!!


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## consettbay2003 (Nov 15, 2015)

The T8 distance sounds ok. I use 2 bulb 4' T5HO fixtures with the top of the plants 2 feet from the bulbs. I use 6500 kelvin bulbs.
Fulvic acid apparently aids in the absorption and movement of nutrients within the plant. It makes Calcium less immobile in the plant.
I also supplement with sea weed extract once an month and MgSO4
every two months.


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## troy (Nov 15, 2015)

MgSO4, I've been using twice a year, I'll use it more often, it's surprising to me the absence of vital micros in fertilizers...


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## troy (Nov 15, 2015)

I suppose the lights are too close?


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## consettbay2003 (Nov 15, 2015)

Actually your plants look fine to me. Are you getting good root growth?


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## troy (Nov 15, 2015)

Here is an esquirolei






Memoria gordon peters






Warsciwizianum x china dragon






Randsii x kolopakingii





This one wossner kolorand put up a inflourescence sheath started to swell then stopped 2 months ago?


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## consettbay2003 (Nov 15, 2015)

Looking good troy. I would maintain the status quo.


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## troy (Nov 15, 2015)

Thanks for the encouragement!!!


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## papheteer (Nov 15, 2015)

To be honest I don't see any problem here


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## troy (Nov 15, 2015)

I wasn't sure if my lights were too close


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## papheteer (Nov 15, 2015)

I think it's fine. I'd be worried if they were T5HOs. My T8s are very close to my plants too. Your plants look like they are doing well.


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## troy (Nov 15, 2015)

The bottom are t5s


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## papheteer (Nov 15, 2015)

What media do you use?


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## troy (Nov 16, 2015)

My media is orchiata, rexxus fir bark, perlite, charcoal, sphagnum moss, the size of the orchiata and rexxus bark depend on the size of plant, I add 1/4 crushed rock to the rock dwellers like it


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## consettbay2003 (Nov 16, 2015)

Do you allow your media to approach dryness before watering again. I ask this because of the lack of algae on the inside of your pots.


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## Ozpaph (Nov 16, 2015)

Dont change a thing!


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## troy (Nov 16, 2015)

Paphs get pretty dry before I water, the media stays damp but the roots change to more of a tan color, my phrags always stay pretty wet


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## gego (Nov 16, 2015)

Your plants really look pretty good and healthy. Your only concern is if it doesn't flower regularly then you may relax on the feeding. But yours are probably grown better than the growers I bought some of my plants from.

What percentage of moss do you use in the mix?

Thanks


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## troy (Nov 16, 2015)

No moss, I'm ooking into it though


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## gego (Nov 16, 2015)

I mean sphagnum moss, you stated it in your post.
Thanks


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## troy (Nov 16, 2015)

Very little sphagnum


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## gego (Nov 16, 2015)

Coco max by ata, do you mean Atami?

Thanks again


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## troy (Nov 16, 2015)

Coco max by atami, yes


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## gego (Nov 16, 2015)

Who's carrying this in NCal? Did you get it online? Do you know that this has humic acid already (supposedly)?


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## troy (Nov 16, 2015)

I got it from john the owner of cal west tropical supply, hydro shop


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