# AOS?... or maybe just me



## Gcroz (Oct 14, 2010)

Has everyone received their _Orchids_ magazine for this month? I have gotten my _Orchid Digest_ but not the former. I'm curious as to whether it was late, lost, or part of a bigger problem.

A lot of discussion has been happening regarding the AOS/Orchidwiz issue. I'm curious as to what others think. I'd like to see something worked out, mainly because I loathe AQ Plus. I do honestly believe that a deal would be in their best interest and think that even a joint product could be fantastic. I know lots of orchid folks who feel the same, but are not encouraged by what they see as the AOS "not being with the times." 

Well, I'm droning on. Let us discuss...


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## Shiva (Oct 14, 2010)

What really bugs me are those emails I get from the AOS and OrchidWiz explaining their side of the story. I don't know about you, but I really don't care about their negociations. What I want is for them to find a solution. I'm not going to buy any new update from either one until they get it all together.


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## ehanes7612 (Oct 14, 2010)

i signed up to be a member over a month ago....never got any word on being billed or anything, tried buying the Awards dvd...the website was dead...


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## goldenrose (Oct 14, 2010)

I was just thinking earlier today especially when the mail came, shouldn't I be getting Orchids? I guess I didn't get enough of a fix these past weekend with the show!


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## Gcroz (Oct 14, 2010)

Shiva said:


> What really bugs me are those emails I get from the AOS and OrchidWiz explaining their side of the story.



Reminiscent of when I was apart of a chat board and the Owners/moderators decided to have their divorce discussions shared with all the members. Entertaining for about 5 seconds, then it just seems petty and sad.


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## goldenrose (Oct 14, 2010)

ehanes7612 said:


> i signed up to be a member over a month ago....never got any word on being billed or anything, tried buying the Awards dvd...the website was dead...


If you think that's long join Slipper Orchid Alliance, I'm a bit disappointed in that one.


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## etex (Oct 14, 2010)

Was starting to look for my AOS mag,too! All the email from AOS complaining/defending their position, about Orchid Whiz gets old. Hard to get all worked up about it as OrchidWhiz donates one of their programs to our local society every year.


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## cnycharles (Oct 14, 2010)

Whether or not the aos has a legal leg to stand on, and I see that they are always trying to find ways to make more money with things that they create, I think they are missing the fact that their image is more important than their being right and winning a legal case. Others have pointed out that they would likely make more money by settling for a small amount and partnering with orchidwiz and not engaging legal issues and creating/updating their own software all the time, especially since they talk about not having enough help to do things. Here they seem to want to be right, but often there are times when being 'right' is the wrong thing to do at a particular time, and ends up causing you more grief than you had before. If they worried less about protecting assets that seems kind of slim and engaged the public by being fairly cooperative and making a little instead of worrying about getting more, people might be more willing to go along with being a member of the aos. ... and asking a lawyer 
(who wants your money) if you have a legal case, is like asking a bear if it wants some honey. they'll go along if they think they'll get paid, whether or not they really have a good legal base to litigate. (pardon me if i'm being a little cynical and over-generalizing here)


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## luvsorchids (Oct 14, 2010)

I got my Orchids magazine with the special Dendrobium supplement a couple days ago. Last I heard there was no progress being made with the negotiations, so everything has been stopped for the time being.

Susan


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## nikv (Oct 14, 2010)

My copy of Orchids magazine usually doesn't arrive until the latter portion of the month.  So I hadn't been looking for it yet. It seems that newer members get their magazine before long-term members. I once called up and complained and they started sending it out in a more timely fashion. But that was years ago and I've apparently dropped down the mailing list again. 

I also was a subscriber to Awards Quarterly and had renewed my subscription about three months before they switched to AQ Plus. I never received anything to get me started with AQ Plus. No CD, no email, no instructions. Nada. So in other words, my renewal was a complete waste. I've grown quite disillusioned with the AOS over recent years and continually ask myself whether or not to renew each time. Particularly now that so much orchid information is available online these days.


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## Gcroz (Oct 14, 2010)

nikv said:


> Particularly now that so much orchid information is available online these days.



Very good point. I see this as an even greater incentive to partner with Orchidwiz, or whoever, and make a great program. The internet is good, but I kind of like the idea of "one stop shopping" for information.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Oct 14, 2010)

I got the OD yesterday, but nothing from AOS.


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## paphreek (Oct 14, 2010)

I've gotten my AOS magazine, but not Orchid Digest.


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## Ernie (Oct 14, 2010)

paphreek said:


> I've gotten my AOS magazine, but not Orchid Digest.



Same here. Got _Orchids _just the other day (way later than usual) but not _Orchid Digest _yet. 

I encourage you all to voice your opinions in a respectful, concise manner directly to the AOS. Be constructive, not derogatory. E-mail the president and Ron McHatton. Tell them in a couple sentences what it will take for them to keep your membership. This whole thing is a mess. If I didn't have so many years invested in judging already, I'd seriously consider not renewing.


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## tenman (Oct 15, 2010)

Just received Orchids, but am curious when this supposed AQ 4.0 Sept.10 issue will be out (given that it's mid-Oct. already). Anyone know? I have to email them to get ours mailed out. I think it's a cost-cutting measure; they only mail the AQ out to people who call or email to ask why they haven't gotten it. I even asked specifically last time if something needed to be done so it would come automatically, such as checking our address for an update or double-checking to be sure we are on the distribution roster.


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## edkravcik (Oct 15, 2010)

I have not received either but I am in Canada so both show up around this time of month here.

I have been an AOS member over 25 years. I was ready to not renew this year but after about 10 years of the magazine becoming worse and worse it seemed to me that the last few issues are better if not great. I hope they focus on the quality because that is how they will attract the readership that they lost and rebuild

As for the computer programs. I quit the AQ shortly after it came out. Absolute garbage in my opinion. Got the OrchidWiz last year. Its better but quite honestly I rarely use it. It bored me after a couple of weeks.

What both parties really need to do is remember that theoretically we are all doing this to promote the hobby, help each other, educate the public etc.---it is supposssed to be fun and every grower I have ever met was at least in part a bit of teacher and philanthropist rolled into one. Back biting, penny pinching and petty squabbling will bankrupt each side and make us all poorer because we will have lost the opportunity to perhaps put together a product that will be loved by all; inexpensive; comprehensive and easy to use. Shame on both sides. Imagine what could be acheived if the energy in arguing were used to focus on a superb product---with the parties sharing the profits if there were any.

Finally, to cnycharles----I don't know what lawyers you deal with but kindly keep your opinions to yourself. It is people like you shooting their mouths off without thinking that start and inflame these things. For your information , I am a trial lawyer. Every lawyer that I know including myself would be urging both sides to mediate the matter and do everything they can to keep it out of court. No one will win if its litigated- including the lawyers because a. neither party has hugely deep pockets and b. the bad press for the lawyers will cost them more in business in the future than they would earn from this case. 

Lawyers must put bread on the table too---but I can do that quite well without silly squabbles like this. It is too time consuming to micromanage this kind of petty rhing and EVERY lawyer I know would run from the case if given the chioce. However the Law Society requires that if we are able to assist, we MUST do so---we can advise clients agaisnt a course of action but as long as they know our opinion, they have a right to fight if that is what they insist upon.

So, if the parties want to be bone-headed and childish--blame the parties not the messenger. Ain't no lawyer gonna get rich off this baby


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## Gcroz (Oct 15, 2010)

edkravcik said:


> Ain't no lawyer gonna get rich off this baby



I agree with this. Orchidwiz brought me back to my law school days when they cited the _Rural Telephone_ case, and if I remember the facts somewhat, they may have a point. For clarity, the AOS awards info can't be copyrighted since it is ifornmationdisseminated for public use and consumption (at least if my recollection of _Rural Telephone_ is correct). Haven't looked up the case, and frankly I have better things to do than worry about Orchidwiz's legal position (such as post about it here! :O)

However, please keep the posts civil. Having been in the legal profession and having left it for my own reasons, I can see both sides.


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## NYEric (Oct 15, 2010)

I got my magazine 2 days ago. I hope the thingie w/ AQ+ gets worked out asap.


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## Wendy (Oct 15, 2010)

Shiva said:


> What really bugs me are those emails I get from the AOS and OrchidWiz explaining their side of the story. I don't know about you, but I really don't care about their negociations. What I want is for them to find a solution. I'm not going to buy any new update from either one until they get it all together.



Ditto for me. I don't read the updates anymore....they get deleted as I'm sick of reading them. As for renewing....I don't think I will renew either next year. The cost is getting a little too high.


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## Bolero (Oct 16, 2010)

I am a member of the AOS and I really don't care if Orchidwiz use the information. The information is out there for everyone to see so who cares? I don't know anyone in Australia who checks the information, I haven't used it either. Others will disagree but seriously I don't think it's something people should care about.


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## cnycharles (Oct 16, 2010)

edkravcik said:


> Finally, to cnycharles----I don't know what lawyers you deal with but kindly keep your opinions to yourself. It is people like you shooting their mouths off without thinking that start and inflame these things. For your information , I am a trial lawyer. Every lawyer that I know including myself would be urging both sides to mediate the matter and do everything they can to keep it out of court. No one will win if its litigated- including the lawyers because a. neither party has hugely deep pockets and b. the bad press for the lawyers will cost them more in business in the future than they would earn from this case.



 Hello Ed,
Of course, not every lawyer is a thief! I'm not shooting off my mouth, but most likely just pointing out that in this case there seems to be more interest in litigation than pointing out reality that there isn't really money to be made by trying this case, though they are hired to do so. I have many relatives who are also lawyers, and none of them are thieves. On the other hand, I most likely followed and posted that line of reasoning because a good friend and co-worker is going through a divorce, and he has pointed out that in several instances his wife's lawyer refused points in the agreement stating that 'she doesn't want that...'. When she was contacted she denied it and said that their previous in person agreements were still agreeable and didn't know what the heck the lawyer was talking about. They had to sit down and draft a total agreement and hand it to her lawyer, with her telling him that this is what she agreed to, make no other determinations or statements or else. It doesn't help, here, that there often are numerous ads on television and newspapers with ambulance chasers plying their wares and asking if you've recently been insulted by your neighbor and their asking to represent you... It is fair game at least in the U.S. that in general conversation of and about lawyers will most often include the descriptive term 'shyster', even though there are many who are not... it is part of the culture and if lawyers in canada and most importantly yourself are not, I humbly apologize and wish you and them well in their practice. 

we do both agree that this litigation is a waste of time, and getting personally insulted by broad statements made to a case not involving either of us, probably won't help anything either. ... and if I were in canada and needed representation, then I would know where to look for honest representation!


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## slippertalker (Oct 16, 2010)

One point that has been forgotten here is that there was a mediator involved between the two sides, and he suggested that the lawyers on both sides should meet to discuss the matter. The Orchidwiz lawyers decided not to participate. It seems that without such assistance and intent by BOTH parties to find a solution that there will not be an amiable result.


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## Paph_LdyMacBeth (Oct 26, 2010)

Sorry to bring this back here, but I have yet to receive my AOS magazine for OCTOBER! 
It used to come around the 7th...over the past few months its been arriving around the 20th. Today is the 26th and I am NOT happy.
I don't know how long I wait before I assume it was lost, or they don't wish to send it to me anymore.
Grrrr.


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## Shiva (Oct 26, 2010)

Paph_LdyMacBeth said:


> Sorry to bring this back here, but I have yet to receive my AOS magazine for OCTOBER!
> It used to come around the 7th...over the past few months its been arriving around the 20th. Today is the 26th and I am NOT happy.
> I don't know how long I wait before I assume it was lost, or they don't wish to send it to me anymore.
> Grrrr.



Keep hoping! You're not alone. I'm still waiting for mine too. Curiously though, one AOS judge phoned me to encourage me to renew my subscription for 2011... Hmmmm!


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## Kavanaru (Oct 26, 2010)

I have received it last Friday  later than normal, but it is there


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## aquacorps (Oct 26, 2010)

I stopped being a AOS member last year, and have never been happier. "orchids" is not missed. With all due respect to Ed K. i would love to represent Alex, though my specialty is defending those accused of crimes.


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## Gcroz (Oct 26, 2010)

aquacorps said:


> I stopped being a AOS member last year, and have never been happier. "orchids" is not missed.



Out of curiosity, why are you happy not being in AOS. Why don't you miss _Orchids_? I'm curious about your opinion because I'm beginning to feel that AOS doesn't have much to offer anymore. 

BTW, I received my October magazine yesterday.


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## SlipperFan (Oct 26, 2010)

My October issue came just a few days ago.


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## aquacorps (Oct 26, 2010)

I had a bad experience attending judging a few years ago. I wrote the president and told him about it. To his credit he had the head of judging contact me. A judge claimed the species we brought was actually a hybrid. After a series of emails i was offered the chance to register the "hybrid". the only problem--the cross was registered over a 100 years ago. I took no pleasure in pointing this out to the head of judging as he seemed to be a nice guy. "Orchids" is mostly ads and can be read in less than five minutes.


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## Paph_LdyMacBeth (Oct 26, 2010)

I will patiently wait for my magazine. In the mean time I will send an email letting them know I am getting annoyed. It seems only fair.

It does seem that "Orchids" has been getting a little limp. I was a little put off by the 5 or so articles about painted leaf orchids. Not that they aren't interesting or have a place in collections -they do & "Orchids" should cover a wide variety of plants & interests. BUT MAN...Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz I can only handle so much. 

It is expensive, and there are problems, but I think we should continue our support and invest ourselves in the organization. I am sure it can be what we all want.


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## SlipperKing (Oct 26, 2010)

I stopped my membership about 7 years ago. I really liked the "Bulletin" for some of the articles but mostly all the ads in the back. There was so many more vendors it seemed then. I didn't like the new look and the price hike was a real turn off too. THEN, two Christmas ago a rich member of the HOS offered to pay 1/2 of everyone that night at the meeting if they would sign up. There was a big push for AOS membership (it had fallen way off) and AOS was (is) hurting for monies. That was his incentive.
I will probably drop it again.


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