# Virus?



## AdamD (Jul 25, 2017)

This plant was fine 3 days ago. Two days ago pitting on the leaves started. Yesterday they started to turn brown. Now today, this





Is it viral?


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## AdamD (Jul 25, 2017)

A better look. 

We also had 75 mph straight line winds Saturday night that shredded a few ctsm leaves, not to mention took down trees and knocked out power for a day... Could be wind damage to the leaves


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## Ozpaph (Jul 25, 2017)

Looks ominous. Unless its the world only example - burn it or test it.


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## SlipperFan (Jul 25, 2017)

check for spider mites. They can quickly suck the life out of these.


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## AdamD (Jul 25, 2017)

Sigh. Tossed it. It's was definitely a mosaic virus, probably caused by insects. The joys of outdoor growing. All things being equal it was very interesting to see. The pics didn't do it justice


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## Happypaphy7 (Jul 25, 2017)

Yikes! 
I would gate to see something like that. It looks to be in very active growth and got hit also. 
Has this flowered before? 
If it has and you like it, then I would send a leaf sample for testing. But remember that virus testing usually check for two, and there are many that affect orchids. 
It looks to be some kind of disease with that regular circular shapes all over. 
I would love to know just to satisfy my curiosity.


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## Happypaphy7 (Jul 25, 2017)

Oh, well...probably for the best as so many leaves were severely affected it seems. 

Speaking of diadems and catasetum, today as I was watering my cycnoches and catasetum, Cycnoches Pineapple Popcorn whose flowers I absolutely loved, is showing those little warts. 
Now I'm really wanting to check for virus. But i don't think it is caused by the tie big V if viral at all. 
I saw that SVO listed Pineapple popcorn on their updated list and the warscewiczii patent used was a different cultivar. 
I'm tempted to get it or two. 
Such a nice hybrid!


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## AdamD (Jul 25, 2017)

It's an unbloomed mormodes seedling. I have another of the same cross. Hopefully it'll fare better


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## AdamD (Jul 25, 2017)

Happypaphy7 said:


> Oh, well...probably for the best as so many leaves were severely affected it seems.
> 
> Speaking of diadems and catasetum, today as I was watering my cycnoches and catasetum, Cycnoches Pineapple Popcorn whose flowers I absolutely loved, is showing those little warts.
> Now I'm really wanting to check for virus. But i don't think it is caused by the tie big V if viral at all.
> ...



Pineapple Popcorn is a great cross, it'd be a shame to lose one. I didn't notice that the cross was different on the new list. Good eye!


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## Happypaphy7 (Jul 25, 2017)

I know. And mine had such nice flowers. 

Most of his plants seem to be geared towards "black" flowers which I'm not really into. Some of the plants from such dark crosses can come out with surprisingly different colors which I would love to have, but I don't want to gamble as the chance is probably quite slim. lol 

I also see spotted Cycnodes crosses. Fred likes yellow with red spots, but other than Ann-Katherine Berger (spelling probably messed up here lol) x warscewiczii sort, I'm not interested in them, either. 

So I'm really eyeing on rather typical yet classic & beautiful yellow or green Cycnoches or non-black preferably miniature catasetum if any. 

As I see how much larger my cycnoches gets each year, I'm reluctant to add any more of this group of orchids as space is limited. I would love to buy a bunch and bloom them out, but reality...


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## My Green Pets (Jul 25, 2017)

Can virus really move that quickly through a plant? I'm not criticizing, just surprised!


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## Happypaphy7 (Jul 25, 2017)

Let's say the plant is virused. 
Then, I would guess it has been virused for a while without showing any symptoms. And this is not uncommon. 
Then, suddenly, the symptoms can show up. 
Usually gradual as in chlorotic spots and streaks or irregular marks that eventually die and turn black or dark brown. 
Others show wrinkled or malformed leaves or plant parts.
It all depends on the type of virus involved and interactions between virus & host, as well as environmental factors that may affect the host.


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## Hien (Jul 26, 2017)

what I don't understand is the orchids which growing in the wild ,where all of our orchids descend from, must have virus in them , how do they survive ?


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## Happypaphy7 (Jul 26, 2017)

The way I understand is that virus infected plant(s) will weaken and die with or without producing healthy next generation.
There will always be others in the same group that are not infected with virus. 
Either way, as a whole group, it won't matter to their survival as it is not likely that entire group becomes infected and die off before leaving behind any progenies.

To orchid growers, virus infected plants are big headache, though, especially if they are one of a kind type plant.


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## AdamD (Jul 27, 2017)

Two days later, a plant from the same cross is showing the same symptoms. And they were the only two affected in my whole collection 





Also in the trash can. So much for that cross


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## Happypaphy7 (Jul 28, 2017)

Sorry to hear. 
What's the cross?


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## AdamD (Jul 28, 2017)

Mormodes Nitty Gritty x mormodes Wild Rainbow


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## Happypaphy7 (Jul 28, 2017)

Yikes! I have a hybrid with Mor. Nitty Gritty. 
Hopefully the problem wasn't on that parent.


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## Jeffreyn (Jul 30, 2017)

It is mites, Ive grown thousands, in a few months the leaves will fall off and in spring the clean new shoots will come out.
Use miticide more.


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## Happypaphy7 (Jul 30, 2017)

Not mites. Based on his description and photos. No.


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## Erythrone (Jul 30, 2017)

Jeffreyn said:


> It is mites, Ive grown thousands, in a few months the leaves will fall off and in spring the clean new shoots will come out.
> Use miticide more.



I am with Jeffreyn and Cambria What.. Since the disease developped so quickly, I don't think it is a virus...


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## AdamD (Jul 31, 2017)

Why then did it only affect two plants of the exact same cross (that were a few feet away in the shade house) and leave everything in between alone?


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## AdamD (Jul 31, 2017)

I've dealt with mite damage before, it wasn't mites. I do spray and regulate carefully. Orthene (Acephate) 97 weekly when I have problems. Neem oil when I don't


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## Erythrone (Aug 1, 2017)

AdamD said:


> A better look.
> 
> We also had 75 mph straight line winds Saturday night that shredded a few ctsm leaves, not to mention took down trees and knocked out power for a day... Could be wind damage to the leaves



Well... I recognize I didn't take a close look at this picture before writing my comments... The reason why I wasn't sure about the diagnosis is that I never saw virus appearing very quickly.... And I tested many plants in my collection with Immunistrips, destroying near 100 to 150 plants that were positive till now. 

But I wonder what other organmism than virus can do such rings on leaves...oke:


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## AdamD (Aug 1, 2017)

I'm also skeptical, that is why I posted. I will say, catasetinae have crazy fast metabolism this time of year. Possibly if conditions were right? Could it have lied dormant?

I just think it's too much of a coincidence not to be genetic or infected in vitro


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## Erythrone (Aug 1, 2017)

AdamD said:


> I'm also skeptical, that is why I posted. I will say, catasetinae have crazy fast metabolism this time of year. Possibly if conditions were right? Could it have lied dormant?
> 
> I just think it's too much of a coincidence not to be genetic or infected in vitro




For what I read about virus, yes, they can be in a plant for a while without showing any symptoms or signs. Such plants may be "dangerous" in our collection because they can be a reservoir of virus for other plants (tools, insects...). In fact, some of the plants I discarded as positive for ORSV or CymMV were asymptomatic (I remember some Phals, Cattleyas, Tolumnias and Phaius). Sometimes the plant showed light sign... like tiny streaks on the blooms. I had a vey nice yellow Tolumnia for years... One day, with the afternoom light, I saw tiny white streaks in the blooms.... He was positive for the 2 virus I tested if I remember well... 

If you want to see a very good diaporama about virus: http://staugorchidsociety.org/PDF/OrchidViruses.pdf

And there are other interesting links here : http://staugorchidsociety.org/culturepests-viruses.htm


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## Happypaphy7 (Aug 2, 2017)

Virus can show up very quickly. Or the damage of its action on the host plant I should say. 
In many cases of asymptomatic plants have virus all over inside them, and once the host weakens, it can just show up.


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