# Poll on Patricipants



## Ray (Mar 16, 2018)

Interested in seeing the opinions of the regular members here:

If a member repeatedly causes or incites major disagreements over non-orchid-related subjects, would you prefer the administrators to:


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## ehanes7612 (Mar 16, 2018)

Probably best that ST get rid of non orchid topics, except for posting pictures. I have changed my mind about this...even with non political posts, there are those who manage to turn it into a political statement..and then that tempts me to respond...terrible cycle


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## Secundino (Mar 16, 2018)

¿pagar justos por pecadores? we would say, something like that all un-guilty pay for the guilty. 

I'd say that nearly all of the 'regular members' of this forum and this special political section do write with sense and courtesy. 

And this one particular and ordinary member who likes to spoil every thread he enters and being judgmental with all of us, could be asked to stop it.


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## NYEric (Mar 20, 2018)

I like to hear other uncomfortable opinions and it shows a person's level of crazy so... let them rant! We can rant back.


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## Tom-DE (Mar 20, 2018)

Well, "This" is what I have expected since the beginning.... "This" isn't new! It happened somewhere else before, remember?

You smack me and I smack you back, Love it!


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## Happypaphy7 (Mar 22, 2018)

I don't understand the need for things like political section.
This is a forum for orchids. Why come here to talk about politics at all?
There are other places where those who are so inclined to do so can.

If you look at how many people usually participate in that sectione and how things turn out, we really don't need it. 
It only creates negativity in my opinion.

We've talked about this before. Oh, well...


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## Heather (Mar 22, 2018)

Happypaphy7 said:


> I don't understand the need for things like political section.
> This is a forum for orchids. Why come here to talk about politics at all?
> There are other places where those who are so inclined to do so can.
> 
> ...



Right, and the last time we talked about it a bunch of people wanted it. 
I'd be happy to get rid of the political forum but that doesn't mean you guys can just move the political discussions to the "off topic" forum again. That's why we broke it out - so that people wouldn't clutter up that forum with nasty arguments and name calling. I don't have the time nor the inclination to police the off topic forum nor do I believe in censoring the forum (and having to police it for censor-worthy posts.) 

I suppose we could make the political forum a password protected forum like the Out Back section. Then you'd REALLY have to work to post there. 

I'm really looking for less work here overall, not more.


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## Berthold (Mar 22, 2018)

Heather said:


> I suppose we could make the political forum a password protected forum like the Out Back section. Then you'd REALLY have to work to post there.


Who will get the password for that section?


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## Tom-DE (Mar 22, 2018)

Berthold said:


> Who will get the password for that section?



Don't Worry! You only, Berthold! Just for you, my dear.:rollhappy::clap:oke::


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## Tom-DE (Mar 22, 2018)

Wait! Ed said Nazis only.:evil: Yum-Yum-Yum-Yum-Yum!


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## Berthold (Mar 22, 2018)

Tom-DE said:


> Don't Worry! You only, Berthold! Just for you, my dear.:rollhappy::clap:oke::



How can I feel certain that You dont get one also?


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## Happypaphy7 (Mar 22, 2018)

Heather said:


> Right, and the last time we talked about it a bunch of people wanted it.
> I'd be happy to get rid of the political forum but that doesn't mean you guys can just move the political discussions to the "off topic" forum again. That's why we broke it out - so that people wouldn't clutter up that forum with nasty arguments and name calling. I don't have the time nor the inclination to police the off topic forum nor do I believe in censoring the forum (and having to police it for censor-worthy posts.)
> 
> I suppose we could make the political forum a password protected forum like the Out Back section. Then you'd REALLY have to work to post there.
> ...



That sounds like a great idea unless we get rid of politics section altogether and whoever brings up politics gets reported and then deleted. 
Three strikes and banned. Yay!!!


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## abax (Mar 22, 2018)

Heather, do what is easiest for you. We have this forum because of you and
I'm grateful.


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## Tom-DE (Mar 23, 2018)

Berthold said:


> How can I feel certain that You dont get one also?



The saddest part of it is that you don't have a clue, especially for someone who have claimed to have a PHD.


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## Berthold (Mar 23, 2018)

Tom-DE said:


> The saddest part of it is that you don't have a clue, especially for someone who have claimed to have a PHD.


In this forum: the clue are You.


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## Heather (Mar 23, 2018)

Thanks Angela.

Honestly you guys don’t want to know what I really want to do. For now, I’m going to run a little experiment. We shall see how it goes...


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## Berthold (Mar 23, 2018)

Heather said:


> Thanks Angela.
> 
> Honestly you guys don’t want to know what I really want to do. For now, I’m going to run a little experiment. We shall see how it goes...



No experiments with living Forum Users please.


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## Heather (Mar 23, 2018)

Berthold said:


> No experiments with living Forum Users please.



If certain people could handle discussing current events like adults and not resorting to name calling, perhaps people would have been more interested in keeping the political forum going...


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## Tom-DE (Mar 23, 2018)

Berthold said:


> In this forum: the clue are You.



It is like I am talking to a two years old............but carry on with your "improved" English or a better translator!


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## Berthold (Mar 23, 2018)

Heather said:


> If certain people could handle discussing current events like adults ..


Heather, human beings are different. Some adults are staying young for a long time, others becoming old very quickly. 
I can tell You, I have a lot of experiences in running an orchid forum, meanwhile about one decade with more than 360000 posts.

In addition, Your signature is no longer correct, natura facit saltum. Max Planck detected it. It's called Quantum jump.


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## Berthold (Mar 24, 2018)

Please don't reduce this forum to a low level picture book forum assembling threads with 20 posts, starting post with a nice flower picture followed by 20 applause post. 
That is interesting for simple minded and limited users only.

You already find a lot of such threads in this forum yet.

A lot of users will appreciate such a forum and will donate, others will delete this forum from their favorite list, which will simplify moderation for You. Its Your decision of course.


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## Ray (Mar 24, 2018)

Berthold said:


> That is interesting for simple minded and limited .




Mighty dickish of you to characterize folks based entirely by their opinions. Do you make similar dismissals based upon wine preference, as well?


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## Heather (Mar 24, 2018)

Berthold, it’s time to remind you of the forum rules. 

Please reread: http://http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18

It’s quite apparent that these polls are regarding the trolling you have been doing here. This is a forum that only survives because of the members, and the regulars know that. Clean it up or go elsewhere please. Consider that your first warning.


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## fibre (Mar 28, 2018)

This is my observation:
Since Trump occurred at the political arena this forum isn't as interesting as before. Now you see a lot of political exchange of blows that are not honest discussions. Most participants are not interested in the opinion of the others but rather like to show their own political views. Discussions about culture, pests, breeding, taxonomy etc. have nearly disappeared. I miss them. I miss the people who contribute their experience to these themes. 

I absolutely would prefer the professional exchange over the political views in this forum.


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## Secundino (Mar 28, 2018)

Now there is none of them. Some will be delighted. There are three (¿or more?) german forums on orchids you can join and rise the quality level.


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## Wendy (Mar 28, 2018)

fibre said:


> This is my observation:
> Since Trump occurred at the political arena this forum isn't as interesting as before. Now you see a lot of political exchange of blows that are not honest discussions. Most participants are not interested in the opinion of the others but rather like to show their own political views. Discussions about culture, pests, breeding, taxonomy etc. have nearly disappeared. I miss them. I miss the people who contribute their experience to these themes.
> 
> I absolutely would prefer the professional exchange over the political views in this forum.



I certainly agree with this. Since the nasty political aspect came about I have put several previously enjoyable members on my ignore list. I just don't want to hear the anger.


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## Tom Reddick (Mar 29, 2018)

Wendy said:


> I certainly agree with this. Since the nasty political aspect came about I have put several previously enjoyable members on my ignore list. I just don't want to hear the anger.



Agreed. I have not put anyone on ignore- but in hobby forums in general this is what I do not like about having a political forum available. It brings a different conversation into the whole being of a forum, and one that can create divisions. I have had no issues here, but I have terminated long time friendships with fellow wine people over their rantings in the wine forums (people I have also met and tasted with in person.) In all but one case, ending the friendship was more about the approach and lack of openness to discussion than about the actual stance on a given issue. 

Incidentally, I started using forums like this in the 90s- during college and back in alt.news days. Over time, I have been surprised to see just how vitriolic political postings can get- and how they damage online friendships and camaraderie in a forum dedicated to a hobby.

So at one point I asked my parents and grandparents- and their view universally was that politics has always been a dangerous topic because so many people will, and in person at dinner parties etc., get very combative. So I do not think we live in unique times on that front. All that has changed is a certain anonymity that allows people to speak even more brazenly without worry of social repercussions.

Also, I have often heard the argument of "If you take away the political forum, then fewer people will post at all." I do not agree with this, nor does it fit with my experience. You may see actual foot and post traffic down a bit, but if a forum is not providing a good home for discussion of the topic for which it was originally formed, the presence or lack of a political discussion page is not- IMHO- going to make a fundamental difference either way.


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## Secundino (Mar 29, 2018)

For the last time (for me) - nobody needs to read this tiny sub-forum.

But alas, you have won. It's so much easier to forbid opinions completely than to find and give a good answer in an conciliate manner. 

I assume I am the only one who has noticed that there are many more responses to threads I've begun in this subforum than on any of my orchid - related threads. How does this fit to the claim that no one is interested in opinions in an slipper forum? Obviously most read here, too, though only a few participated. Bye bye liberty.


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## Ray (Mar 29, 2018)

Oh, c'mon now, Secun. This is no restriction of liberty.

You are still entitled to your opinions. The only thing restricted is your ability to express them here, and as this is a privately-sponsored forum (meant in the broader sense) that we have been graciously invited to participate in, the definition of "appropriate subject" is at the option of the owner, and should be honored by the participants.

Would any one of us walk into a grocery store, stand in the produce section, and expound upon same-sex marriage? Probably not, because it's simply not appropriate, but we're still entitled to our thoughts on the subject.

Taking a bit of a turn from the subject, I think that much of the problem comes from two sources:

> We are much more likely to think of our opinions as "right" or "wrong", rather than merely "different". I don't know how we got here, or how to remedy that, but if we apply the well-established fact that diverse systems are the most successful to our social interactions, I think we'll be much better off.

> The internet and social media have made it easy for each individual to express his or her opinion, and for some reason, that has made many feel they must, apparently without regard to the opinions or feelings of others.


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## Heather (Mar 29, 2018)

I came here to ask if anyone was missing the political forum. It seems most are okay with us continuing to have it turned off for new posts. 

This forum is members based. If the members aren’t interested, I’m inclined to go with that. 

I’ll continue to watch this thread for discussion and then maybe do another poll in a week. Thanks for all the constructive discussion everyone!


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## Secundino (Mar 29, 2018)

@Ray:
Well, yes I have. It might be because I AM gay and _ thus I am directly involved _ when it comes to discrimination. It wasn't a grocery eventually, but in many other places; and of course I didn't ask for permit previously - I defended myself and my husband's rights right away. If you were black, which I don't know, you would refuse to be offended at a grocery, wouldn't you? 

In this forum I was indeed allowed to write and give my opinion on things that seemed important to me and could perhaps be of interest for other users, too. This has changed now, not because I misbehaved (at least nobody told me), but because of other users who wouldn't accept it. That is a crucial difference.

There are many orchids and even slippers I consider ugly - but would I write so everytime someone has finally got them to flower and shows them proudly in a thread? No, of course not. I don't even open that thread (and sometimes, when I did, I was surprised that a godefroyae, in the end, isn't so ugly at all ...).

On 8 march I obviously gave publicly congratulations to women I met and know - as I did here in the forum. Not a problem you could think. Look what happened to that thread. Just one example.

I'd love to write on the democratic backlash _happening right now _in Spain. It affects - as I believe, democracy at a whole. I feel it's important. I don't think that is an offence to us-american citizens.
But obviously, I am only one. The 'no' has won (though the poll tells another 'truth').
Well, Ray, you began this thread, you must be happy with it. (And yes: I DO chose where I go and where I write and where I stay and where I feel right according to how free I am allowed to be at that place where I am.) 

An Heather, I am not going to write on politics here, because this is not the place for it (others have done!) and you had organized a special place for it - on request of the same people who want it closed down now. 

Sorry for my clumsy english btw.


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## Ray (Mar 29, 2018)

Secundino said:


> @Ray:
> 
> Well, yes I have. It might be because I AM gay and _ thus I am directly involved _ when it comes to discrimination. It wasn't a grocery eventually, but in many other places; and of course I didn't ask for permit previously - I defended myself and my husband's rights right away. If you were black, which I don't know, you would refuse to be offended at a grocery, wouldn't you?
> 
> .




I am against discrimination of all sorts, but I think you missed my point.

If you were being discriminated against in a grocery store, by all means I support your protest. On the other hand, if that was not the case, and you just decided to bring up same-sex marriage on your own while shopping, then I'd label you a jerk, if not worse.

There is an appropriate forum for everything, but my point was that not every forum is appropriate for everything.


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## Happypaphy7 (Mar 30, 2018)

I agree with Wendy and Tom and others.

There is no need for political section. This is a place for orchid lovers to talk about orchids. 
Politics will only create negativity and divides people, and we have seen enough of it already.
Why even think of coming here to talk about politics at all?
I just don't understand that mentality in the first place.
This is a slippertalk for a clear reason!
Let's keep it that way.


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## monocotman (Mar 31, 2018)

*Poll*

I agree with these guys.
If you want to talk politics then go somewhere else.
There is no need for it here.
The other big plant forum that I use is the Scottish rock garden club and that forbids politics and is none the worse for that.
It is a thriving on line plant community with contributors from around the world with many people with a huge amount of knowledge, sound familiar?
David


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## Berthold (Mar 31, 2018)

monocotman said:


> . the Scottish rock garden club and that forbids politics and is none the worse for that.


Yes, a good idea.
The same to Playmobil forum. All off topics are forbidden except pets.


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## troy (Mar 31, 2018)

Thank you happypaphy!!!! I agree!!!!


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## Wendy (Mar 31, 2018)

Secundino said:


> For the last time (for me) - nobody needs to read this tiny sub-forum.
> 
> But alas, you have won. It's so much easier to forbid opinions completely than to find and give a good answer in an conciliate manner.
> 
> I assume I am the only one who has noticed that there are many more responses to threads I've begun in this subforum than on any of my orchid - related threads. How does this fit to the claim that no one is interested in opinions in an slipper forum? Obviously most read here, too, though only a few participated. Bye bye liberty.




Secundino...fwiw, you have never been on my ignore list. I find your postings reasonable and open minded. Your orchid/flower photos and contributions are always enjoyable. I’m disappointed that you want to leave and I hope you reconsider.


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## Berthold (Mar 31, 2018)

Ray said:


> Oh, c'mon now, Secun. This is no restriction of liberty.
> 
> You are still entitled to your opinions. The only thing restricted is your ability to express them here,



That is the strongest restriction of liberty, it is the same situation as in North Korea.


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## Ray (Mar 31, 2018)

Sorry, but that's a preposterous comparison that can only appear to be the slightest bit valid by taking it out of context, as you did, which is the mark of a poor debater.


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## Berthold (Apr 1, 2018)

Ray said:


> Sorry, but that's a preposterous comparison that can only appear to be the slightest bit valid by taking it out of context, as you did, which is the mark of a poor debater.



Ray, You allow all others their own opinion but You don't want them to publish it in a small corner of this forum if their opinions differ from Your own or are not of Your interest.
For everybody You want to forbid any potential and theoretical possibility to have access to this small forum corner.

Sorry Ray, that is a typical attitude of each dictatorial system. And the majority of the users refuse that like You see in the poll result.

I am still training my English but I hope You understand my view on this subject.


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## Ray (Apr 1, 2018)

Happy Easter, Berthold.

Yes, your English is apparently the issue, but it's your understanding of my statements, not the other way around.

I have no interest in restricting anyone.

I enjoy hearing others' opinions, as it exposes me to points of view I may not have considered. I may-, or may not agree with them, but for the most part, I try to consider them different, not right or wrong.

What I object to the most is the name calling and insulting characterization of others in the manner that has developed in this context.

I still think it's preposterous to equate a despotic, dictatorial country with a privately owned forum.


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## Berthold (Apr 1, 2018)

Ray said:


> I have no interest in restricting anyone.
> I enjoy hearing others' opinions, as it exposes me to points of view I may not have considered...
> 
> I still think it's preposterous to equate a despotic, dictatorial country with a privately owned forum.



I did not equate a dictatorial country with a private forum but I show a similarity in one point between this both institutions if some users of the forum postulate a ban of all off topic discussions which they are not interested in.

But if You change Your mind in between we are on the right way.

If You don't understand my post, it's my English of course. In that case I suggest to proceed discussion in German.


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## Tom Reddick (Apr 2, 2018)

I don't think it is a question of banning off-topic discussions in which many are not interested. In fact I would argue politics is tricky because everyone is interested- often very deeply- and thus you run a higher risk of conversations becoming unpleasant and eventually ruining the overall quality of the forum. Plus, as fibre alluded to, you have the even greater audience that sees something they find offensive and either comes to the forum less often, or never again converses with the person who offended them. You will never hear that person complain- but they will quietly spend less and less time on the forum, and eventually you have a serious problem.

In my experience- and I say this more generally because while the political forum here can certainly get heated, it is not nearly as unpleasant as many I have seen- political pages on hobby forums tend to require the greatest amount of active work by moderators and also create tensions and animosities that can spill over into other hobby-related parts of the forum. And at the end of the day, the discussions in political forums do not even have anything to do with the original purpose of the forum.

I see your and Secundino's points, and in a perfect world every hobby forum could have a number of off-topic pages where just about anything can be discussed. But in practical terms it just seems to not work with politics.

And even having such a forum carefully moderated can create trouble as people who are having their posts edited or deleted will often- again in my general experience- start accusing moderators of using censorship to promote their own political agendas or to play favorites.

I have not cast a formal vote, and will remain here happily either way, but just wanted to point out some of the reasons why it is worth considering whether a private forum with a specific hobby mission should have a political page. 

It certainly does not happen in real life. Most hobby groups I have belonged to where you have meetings in person have a mission statement or charter which specifies the purpose of the group. And usually there is a specific statement that at no time may members make use of the group's mailing list, newsletter or public meeting times to engage in any political activity whatsoever. That is in part because it could result in the revocation of a group's tax exempt status, but also to keep the focus very clearly on the group providing a place where anyone can come and freely discuss and share the hobby without interference.


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## Berthold (Apr 2, 2018)

Tom Reddick said:


> In my experience- and I say this more generally because while the political forum here can certainly get heated, it is not nearly as unpleasant as many I have seen- political pages on hobby forums tend to require the greatest amount of active work by moderators and also create tensions and animosities that can spill over into other hobby-related parts of the forum. And at the end of the day, the discussions in political forums do not even have anything to do with the original purpose of the forum.



Tom I agree with Your post.

My view is following:
In my orchid forum we have a big part of off topics. It has more than 100000 posts which means nearly 1/3 of all.
We are interested in users with scientific base and a wide general education and knowledge and *interests*.
Over a longer time it is too boring for me to discuss only orchid problem with users I know via forum for many years already.

So the off topic area is divided in 
- politics
- economy 
- science and technology
- art and culture
- feuilleton

I can assure You there are a lot of hot discussions, also with severe problems of insults which is illegal in German forums.

To keep everything cool it really needs a hight qualified moderation by persons with wide knowledge and good nerves.
Biggest problem is to find out in a struggle the originator. There always is only one originator at the beginning.
It is not a successful moderation to give *all* participants a warning. That normally extends the problem.
In all the time of about 10 years we didn't have to ban a single user but some users left the forum by themselves.

So, if You want a forum with general interesting off topic discussions the first step is improve the moderation.
Exception are pet threads.There are only 2 types of post:
1. That's a cutey
2. oh my dear, I am so sorry.

p.s. Sorry for my English, but mostly the problem is not the language, the problem is located between the ears.


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## Tom Reddick (Apr 2, 2018)

Berthold said:


> My view is following:
> In my orchid forum we have a big part of off topics. It has more than 100000 posts which means nearly 1/3 of all.
> We are interested in users with scientific base and a wide general education and knowledge and *interests*.
> Over a longer time it is too boring for me to discuss only orchid problem with users I know via forum for many years already.



Good deal- if I understand correctly what you are saying is that you and many users prefer to have a place where they can not only talk orchids, but a bunch of other things all in the same place versus having to hop around to different forums or stop and think every time if it is okay to post something or not.

If that is what you are saying- I see your point. The concept of the forum as more of a social interactive place than a specific place to discuss a specific hobby and nothing else.

That seems to be the question that faces many forums I guess- at least when it comes to having politics be a topic.


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## ehanes7612 (Apr 2, 2018)

I understand Berthold's desire too...but the fact of the matter is...there are only a handful of people who engage in the politics section..it's not useful as a tool in any scope of a social experiment


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## Berthold (Apr 3, 2018)

Tom Reddick said:


> If that is what you are saying- I see your point. The concept of the forum as more of a social interactive place than a specific place to discuss a specific hobby and nothing else.



That is correct.


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## Berthold (Apr 3, 2018)

ehanes7612 said:


> I understand Berthold's desire too...but the fact of the matter is...there are only a handful of people who engage in the politics section..


There is not only politics. There is also:

- economy
- science and technology
- enviroment
- art and culture
- feuilleton
- other curiosities of the life

In which of these fields are *You* interested? I could tell You a lot about holocaust, what You don't know, I guess.


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## Heather (Apr 3, 2018)

I just want to be very clear here. I have no issue re-opening the politics forum. The issue I have is dealing with moderating it when it gets out of hand. It is indeed the hardest section to moderate. Again, we could password protect it and you guys could go at it all you want but I don’t want to hear about it when it gets nasty. 

I’ve now both lost and gained members as a result of closing it, same as last year when we started it. 

I have very little interest in running this forum at all anymore, frankly, but I’m still doing it to keep this place going for those of you who enjoy it and because the members still support it. I personally don’t care one way or another, but if the forum is going to survive, the interest of the forum is to have the most supporting members.

*The only reason I am still running the forum is because the only people interested in taking it over wanted to ban off topic discussions and I refuse to turn the forum over to someone that would jeopardize the integrity of the forum.*


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## ehanes7612 (Apr 3, 2018)

Berthold said:


> There is not only politics. There is also:
> 
> - economy
> - science and technology
> ...



all of that is covered in 'tell me about it'


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## Berthold (Apr 3, 2018)

ehanes7612 said:


> all of that is covered in 'tell me about it'



No, politics is not part of that.


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## ehanes7612 (Apr 3, 2018)

Berthold said:


> No, politics is not part of that.



yes, I know


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## Berthold (Apr 3, 2018)

Oh I see, You are Not interested in politics


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## ehanes7612 (Apr 3, 2018)

I am not interested in conversing with you anymore...you turn EVERYTHING into politics...so until you leave this earth ..I totally support no politics on ST


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## troy (Apr 3, 2018)

Who posts the most about politics?? Or is totally devoted to move everybody to one specific side or shut them out, and insult them??? One or more should ask themselves!!! Thats the problem......


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## ehanes7612 (Apr 3, 2018)

'totally devoted' ??? I think you overestimate people's intentions here. I don't see anyone 'totally devoted' to anything on here except for people just wanting to keep ST around (for the orchid's sake) and of course Berthold's devotion ...which is fine, although if he has an orchid forum that is so diverse in Germany, why is he pushing so hard for this here??? I dont get it...and TBH..Slippertalk is not, by any means, important to the narrative of political speakeasy or anything besides orchids ( I have by far more significant non orchid social interactions on Facebook and face to face)..I have always held this opinion..there are plenty of other forums to get your political rockers off ..the importance of this aspect of ST is way overblown, SEVERELY OVERBLOWN. I find it silly that we are even having this conversation. Maybe peopel should ask themselves how insignificant they will feel if the political section is taken away permanently..I could care less myself because I have a life. Anyway, I have said enough, wasting my energy here


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## Tom-DE (Apr 3, 2018)

Political guys always like to blame on others but themselves...no surprise here! 
As long as someone(you know who!) is trolling the politic forum or trying to say the last word on any topics, the chaotic situation will stay. I find the chaos(especially created by idgits) quite amusing from time to time, but if I vote, I would vote to *shut it down for good*.


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## Tom Reddick (Apr 3, 2018)

Heather said:


> I just want to be very clear here. I have no issue re-opening the politics forum. The issue I have is dealing with moderating it when it gets out of hand. It is indeed the hardest section to moderate. Again, we could password protect it and you guys could go at it all you want but I don’t want to hear about it when it gets nasty.
> 
> I’ve now both lost and gained members as a result of closing it, same as last year when we started it. [/b]



In case it is helpful Heather, tonight I went to my main wine forum and signed into the special political forum, plus I read through the sticky post at the top with the rules and history.

Your idea I think is the best since that extra step to log into it will help keep people from casually wandering in there and maybe getting turned off.

On the wine board, where I have been an active member for 9 years, I tend to know who everyone is that posts regularly. In the politics section I was surprised to see a number of users with thousands, or even tens of thousands of posts, that I do not recall ever seeing post in the main wine forums. So, it clearly attracts users who may be into wine- but want to talk politics. Note that this forum has a huge member base- well into the thousands and perhaps over 10,000- plus we who donate annually have a special designation by our user names. So there is quite a bit of money out there for the owner to potentially justify the extra moderation work.

Generally speaking it was fairly tame, though far more argumentative than insightful. I did note one good friend of mine who posts in the wine forums all the time and often gets ribbed or fussed at for being so argumentative. He is not usually like that in the wine section- but in politics... So there is some spillover effect of animosities coming out of the political forum- not significant, but noticeable.

Final note- a couple of times in the past decade the politics forum- even in this private form- was shut down completely because inevitably there are reported posts and requests for mods to get involved. So even isolated with a big warning that it is a Wild West zone- there is mod work.

But one final positive point- the existence of that forum keeps the politics well-isolated and gives the moderators all the justification and general group support they need to mercilessly delete anything remotely political anywhere else (and that does not have to happen too often.)

As I said before, I am good either way and will still support and participate in the forum. Just offering the above in hopefully very non-biased terms to show some of the pros and cons from a site where the political forum has existed for years.


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## Berthold (Apr 4, 2018)

ehanes7612 said:


> Slippertalk is not, by any means, important to the narrative of political speakeasy or anything besides orchids ( I have by far more significant non orchid social interactions on Facebook and face to face)..I have always held this opinion.



Very great :rollhappy: 

It's exactly You who started the very most threads in the off topic area in this Forum, including from politics to climate change, nearly everything. I am only missing a pet thread from You. I started one.

I am interested in finding and discussing this things in a culture environment which differs from German language users. It is interesting for me what a real Trump hater and a real trump voter thinks.

The price I have to pay for that is meeting users like Tom-DE.


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## Tom-DE (Apr 4, 2018)

Berthold said:


> The price I have to pay for that is meeting users like Tom-DE.



Dude, what is in your head now is far more fucked-up than I thought....and FYI, I am not here to have a pissing contest with sickos like you. 

Based on how often you've posted and how you have been interacting with others(picking fights), I can conclude that you want to be *THE *troll of the politic forum....You really don't have a life, do you?
PS, your English is lousier than my grandmother's German. and she only had a "PH.D" of home economics. when you improve your English, then we talk!


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## Berthold (Apr 4, 2018)

Tom-DE said:


> your English is lousier than my grandmother's German. and she only had a "PH.D" of home economics.



I think, the problem of Your grandmother is not her German but her grandson.


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## Happypaphy7 (Apr 4, 2018)

Berthold said:


> I think, the problem of Your grandmother is not her German but her grandson.



Haha this is a great response! I love it!!  

By the way, if you can't speak German at the level of his English, there is no need to insult him like that. That was very rude. And dropping f bomb? I don't think so.


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## ehanes7612 (Apr 4, 2018)

Berthold said:


> Very great :rollhappy:
> 
> It's exactly You who started the very most threads in the off topic area in this Forum, including from politics to climate change, nearly everything. I am only missing a pet thread from You. I started one.
> 
> ...



I have no doubt...but if it was political I kept it in the correct thread category....you on the other hand ..warp non political posts into the context of political ideologies, and create ideological divisiveness with any post (even non political posts). Also, you may not be the OP on threads but you certainly have a penchant for overtaking the thread...you are the reason why politics cant be on this forum..you have no boundaries, whatsoever..well, except when someone calls you a Nazi (which is just political hyperbole and by any account, playing by your rules)....this makes you a hypocrite


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## Tom-DE (Apr 4, 2018)

Happypaphy7 said:


> By the way, if you can't speak German at the level of his English, there is no need to insult him like that. That was very rude. And dropping f bomb? I don't think so.



Fortunately this is not a German forum and I don't have to post in German! 
Considered how he has been interacting with others/insulting others, he deserved the "f bomb" and every bit of it. The whole political forum got shut down mainly because of this troll. If you don't like the word "fucked-up" I used for this a-hole, too bad! I don't give a damn!


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## Berthold (Apr 4, 2018)

ehanes7612 said:


> ..you on the other hand ..warp non political posts into the context of political ideologies,..


Yes You are right, I beg Your pardon. 
Indeed I wrote the forum users can see the new flower of my Paphiopedilum micranthum album at the beginning of Trumps next term.
I can imagine that this post really hurts You. 

I will never repeat something like that.


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## Berthold (Apr 4, 2018)

Tom-DE said:


> Fortunately this is not a German forum and I don't have to post in German!



Yes that is Your luck. 
But You should know, Germany is a nice city.


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## Tom-DE (Apr 4, 2018)

Berthold said:


> Yes that is Your luck.
> But You should know, Germany is a nice city.



You really need to know the meaning of the word and that would be the start for you to improve your English. Somehow an on-line translator can only do so much for you.

BTW, Germany is a country not a city! That shows how much you know!

Germany is beautiful and most of the people are nice as well unlike..., I have visited Germany few times, and that I can agree!


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## Berthold (Apr 5, 2018)

Tom-DE said:


> I can conclude that you want to be *THE *troll of the politic forum.



I am a "Homo politicus", not a troll. Each of my words has a political context.

Der Homo Politicus ist eine Fiktion der Wissenschaft, den es genauso wenig gibt wie den Homo Oekonomicus oder den Homo Sociologicus. *Er soll ein klar rational denkender Staatsbürger sein, der kluge, überlegte Entscheidungen trifft.*
Please ask Your Grandmother for translation and to explain You the difference between a Homo politicus and a troll.


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## SlipperFan (Apr 5, 2018)

I've been away from this forum for awhile -- life takes over sometimes.

Heather is asking whether we should continue to have a thread on Politics. In the beginning, I was for having one. I thought it would be a good place for sane discussions on differences of opinion.

I have changed my mind. It really has become a place for people to exchange insults and that is about it. It was a good experiment, but in the end, this is an orchid forum and all other topics should be dealt with in the "Tell me about it" section, where "Talk about anything but orchids" is encouraged.

Also, when one person seems to have taken over just about any discussion with argumentative negativity, he has become "persona non-grata" and should be ignored.


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## Tom-DE (Apr 5, 2018)

Berthold said:


> I am a "Homo politicus", not a troll. Each of my words has a political context.
> 
> Der Homo Politicus ist eine Fiktion der Wissenschaft, den es genauso wenig gibt wie den Homo Oekonomicus oder den Homo Sociologicus. *Er soll ein klar rational denkender Staatsbürger sein, der kluge, überlegte Entscheidungen trifft.*
> Please ask Your Grandmother for translation and to explain You the difference between a Homo politicus and a troll.



"*Homo politicus*"? In English, that means *gay politician*? and for the rest of contents you posted here in German, well, you can shovel that up your *##

You call yourself politician? You don't even come close to that! Self-claimed "homo politicus"? well, you are giving gays bad name... however, that explains a lot about how you have been acting here...Congrats! You're finally coming out of your closet. 

Just to be clear, I don't discriminate gays in any way and we have plenty of them here locally...., but drama queens/attention whores might be a different story and usually they don't represent the gay community.
I will say it again! Berthold, you are giving "homo" bad name here! Go *-yourself!

I will see my grandmother again someday....Grandma, RIP!


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## Happypaphy7 (Apr 5, 2018)

Please, guys, stooooop!!!!

Tom, I feel your sentiment, but you know that it doesn't help the situation.


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## Happypaphy7 (Apr 5, 2018)

I agree! 

I've been saying the whole time that there is no need for politics section. 
It's been shown quite clearly. 

This is an orchid forum. Let's keep it this way. 
Off topic section is good and I've never seen any ugly stuff happening there except for the case of politics section. 

For those of you who enjoy talking about politics, please do so in politics forum or make one yourself.

Let's not do it here. It does not help anyone.
And admins have better things to do with their precious time other than policing around. 






SlipperFan said:


> I've been away from this forum for awhile -- life takes over sometimes.
> 
> Heather is asking whether we should continue to have a thread on Politics. In the beginning, I was for having one. I thought it would be a good place for sane discussions on differences of opinion.
> 
> ...


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## Berthold (Apr 5, 2018)

Tom-DE said:


> "*Homo politicus*"? In English, that means *gay politician*




:rollhappy: No, that is Latin language. Ask You grandmother please.
You mean a *Homo sapiens* is a wise gay? Have a look in a mirror.


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## Tom-DE (Apr 5, 2018)

Berthold said:


> :rollhappy: No, that is Latin language. Ask You grandmother please.
> You mean a *Homo sapiens* is a wise gay? Have a look in a mirror.



You really are a piece of ****, aren't you? Let my grandma RIP!

Homo politicus means gay politician per google translation. I "trust" it(good god, I never thought I would say that!) and at least it knows Germany is a country not a city. It is so sad, especially for someone who claimed to have a PH.D and lives in Germany. Need more to say?


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## Berthold (Apr 5, 2018)

Tom-DE said:


> Homo politicus means gay politician per google translation.



No, You are wrong. *Homo* is the scientific name of the genus You belong to also.

*Homo sapiens* is the scientific name of the living human beings, but I am not sure if the species identifier "sapiens" can be applicable to You.

How is it possible that a US citizen doesn't know what a Homo sapiens is. I am baffled.


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## Tom-DE (Apr 5, 2018)

A man who thinks Germany is a city is asking me if I know what homo sapiens means? LOL!........ How is it possible that a German doesn't know Germany is a country? Quite astonishing!

If you want to call yourself homo(man), you got it! but I don't think you are much of a man anyway. Here in u.s., if you call yourself homo, you are a gay. FYI, in modern English, "Homo" is an offensive term used to refer to a male homosexual.... and are you really a "homo"? If you are, you are the worst kind, the kind giving gay people bad name.

Maybe google is wrong but I am not wrong! Homo politicus means gay politician in English per google translation. You don't believe it, google it!


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## Tom-DE (Apr 6, 2018)

Berthold said:


> *Homo sapiens* is the scientific name of the living human beings, but I am not sure if the species identifier "sapiens" can be applicable to You.



LOL! I am not even sure about that myself either, so I am not going to take it as an insult. :rollhappy: 

PS, I am done with your "homo" chitchats but you carry on, and I am sure you will!


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## Berthold (Apr 6, 2018)

SlipperFan said:


> Also, when one person seems to have taken over just about any discussion with argumentative negativity, he has become "persona non-grata" and should be ignored.



That's a good idea. Everybody with an opinion different from mine should be declared as "Persona non grate" and expelled to Russia.


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## Ray (Apr 6, 2018)

Berthold said:


> That's a good idea. Everybody with an opinion different from mine should be declared as "Persona non grate" and expelled to Russia.



That would be "persona non grata"....


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## Berthold (Apr 8, 2018)

Wendy said:


> Secundino.... I’m disappointed that you want to leave and I hope you reconsider.



Wendy, don't be sad. 
I have a lot of experience in orchid cultivation and propagation and I think I can answer many of Your questions concerning this field, if I will not be banned in this forum.


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## cnycharles (Apr 8, 2018)

You people are too much! Those who grow orchids should recognize Latin... and who knows how many times many of us have tried to type in one word and spell check has changed it! This is a poll on the future existence of a certain line of threads, please keep insults bashing and swearing off main discussion. If you don&rsquo;t care, well many do so try to not be antisocial. Swear and bash all you want in private threads 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SlipperFan (Apr 8, 2018)

"don&rsquo;t" -- a good case of Latin or spell check translation! oke: :rollhappy:


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## cnycharles (Apr 8, 2018)

That’s a technology issue with Tapatalk. I’ve sent them the error issue but for now I have to purposely misspell so it doesn’t do that. It’s correct when I type and press ‘post reply’. I’ve seen other posts here that Tapatalk has misrepresented contraction marks (like ‘ and “ and maybe more) and inserted web code in its place. Doesn’t happen when posting directly to the forum


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## Heather (Apr 8, 2018)

SlipperFan said:


> Also, when one person seems to have taken over just about any discussion with argumentative negativity, he has become "persona non-grata" and should be ignored.



THIS. 

Also, so, I'm not planning on reactivating the political forum and I'm closing this discussion. 

Carry on elsewhere, just not about politics please. Thanks Ray for bringing this back up to light so we could re-evaluate and follow up.


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