# physiological problem?



## Paul (Jan 27, 2010)

Hello,

Here is a paph philippinense (supposed to be a seedgrown palawanense) that is growing fast and furious, but never bloomed... I have tried everything but no bud. I've been growing it for more than 3 years now (bought as a FS plant)







Have you ever seen such problem on that species and is there an explanation?

thank you.


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## goldenrose (Jan 27, 2010)

Yes - I've heard of this syndrome -
Probably *N*ot a *B*looming *S*ize plant at time of purchase Syndrome.
Be patient - it looks great!


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## Shiva (Jan 27, 2010)

Yes! The plant is obviously happy in your care, so it may not feel the need to reproduce. I agree with Goldenrose. Be patient! And maybe buy another one that's more floriferous. I have a big masdevallia ignea that I bought years ago and it has never flowered and another one a third of the size right beside it that has flowered at least five times in the last 18 months.


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## Leo Schordje (Jan 27, 2010)

Your plant looks great, it most likely just needs time. Threaten it, it will bloom.


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## ldrhawke (Jan 27, 2010)

Leo Schordje said:


> Your plant looks great, it most likely just needs time. Threaten it, it will bloom.



I'm just an orchid newbie, but your statement may have more merit than you think. I have always believed that it is only Darwin logic that plants respond by flowering to assure the species is maintained when they sense their life is threatened by drought, cold, or other adverse sense of pending death during their life cycle. Maybe it is just too comfortable living with you....


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## Paul (Jan 27, 2010)

ldrhawke said:


> I'm just an orchid newbie, but your statement may have more merit than you think. I have always believed that it is only Darwin logic that plants respond by flowering to assure the species is maintained when they sense their life is threatened by drought, cold, or other adverse sense of pending death during their life cycle. Maybe it is just too comfortable living with you....



OR when the plant is big and fat enough to produce many many good seeds, it blooms so it is not yet that big enough :rollhappy:


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## smartie2000 (Jan 27, 2010)

put it next to the garbage can. or say that you are donating it to a newbie...it works
Nice plump leaves BTW.
I do have BS plants that seem to sit there, but none this size yet


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## emydura (Jan 27, 2010)

Maybe give it more light. I've read that in its natural environment, phillipinense gets so much light the leaves are more a yellow colour. Others with your problem have put there plant outside in the blazing sunlight with some success.

David


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## SlipperFan (Jan 27, 2010)

I remember Paul Phillips (Ratcliffe) telling about a philippinense plant they had that wouldn't bloom. He said he got disgusted, threw it under the bench and forgot about it. It bloomed.


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## ohio-guy (Jan 27, 2010)

OK, one says more light, one says less. Another says threaten it.....Maybe you can scare it by dividing it in 2, put one half in higher light, the other half under the bench in low light!


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## SlipperFan (Jan 27, 2010)

ohio-guy said:


> OK, one says more light, one says less. Another says threaten it.....Maybe you can scare it by dividing it in 2, put one half in higher light, the other half under the bench in low light!


:rollhappy:
Or just keep doing what you are doing, growing it well. The people at MSU who formulated their fertilizer said that if you grow a plant well, giving it proper nitrogen fertilizer, it will bloom. (My words -- they said that in connection with the so-called "bloom-booster" fertilizer. Their research showed that proper nitrogen ratios = good blooms.)


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## PaphMadMan (Jan 27, 2010)

I think it is terminal. You can send it to me if you don't want to watch it die a slow and painful death.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jan 27, 2010)

Sounds like a typical philipinense, in my experience....


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## NYEric (Jan 27, 2010)

I don't think it's blooming size yet.


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## paphioboy (Jan 27, 2010)

Gorgeous plant..  Maybe dividing it may stimulate blooming... Or a longer dry cool period. I once had an exul with the same problem - 15 growths and not a single bloom despite grown with vandas.. Its now no longer with me..


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## Ernie (Jan 27, 2010)

ldrhawke said:


> I'm just an orchid newbie, but your statement may have more merit than you think. I have always believed that it is only Darwin logic that plants respond by flowering to assure the species is maintained when they sense their life is threatened by drought, cold, or other adverse sense of pending death during their life cycle. Maybe it is just too comfortable living with you....



This logic is common, and yes, plants do perform "death blooms", but biologically, a healthy plant getting the "correct" conditions would be more likely to carry a seed pod "to term" successfully. It is evolutionarily and energetically more efficient for healthy plants to have successful offspring. 

Additionally, consider when temperate trees bloom... early spring lotsa times before significant rainfall and before daylength is restored. Pink magnolias and many other trees and shrubs bloom in mid to late February here (Chicago). They are responding to environmental cues typical for their environment. And it's good to have fruits bearing when the critters are waking up/moving back to disperse seed. Humans consider cold, drought, etc as "stress"; plants see them as _cues_. You just need to realize what cue(s) you're missing. 

So, you probably aren't providing the proper cues for it to bloom. Try some of the sugestions listed here. Since philippinense is reported to occur in bright light up to full sun, I doubt you're giving it too little light though. 

Our top two reasons why plants don't bloom are
1) light intensity- blooming requires tons of energy, light "gives" plants energy; not enough light = not enough energy
and 
2) night time temp drop- respiration = energy usage = energy loss, so slow respiration by reducing night temp to help retain energy stores. 

All this being said, sometimes you just get a stinker of a plant. When this happens, divide it, keep a nice chunk, and donate the rest to SlipperTalk (or your local orchid society) as a fund raiser. If your division still fails to bloom, move it closer and closer to the trash can and forget about it. The "stress" of you ignoring it can be the key to its failure to bloom. 

-Ernie


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## Paul (Jan 28, 2010)

ok thank you all!!
I will try two things after reading your messages:
1 - highest light as possible (top of the greenhouse, then full sun outside during summer with little care)
2 - more nitrogen: 28-14-14 fertilizer only at 1g/L rate

I will tell you if I see a bud some day ... lol


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## SlipperKing (Jan 28, 2010)

Paul,
I've seen this with Phals. They form huge clumps and rarely bloom. If they do bloom, it's short spikes and lot of them. A bushing flowering plant!


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## Ray (Jan 29, 2010)

I agree with both Erics and Rick.

I think your plant is basically immature - not by much - and is setting itself up to become a spectacular specimen.

Also, I don't have as much paph expertise as many here, but wouldn't more nitrogen favor vegetative growth, potentially suppressing blooming?


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## etex (Jan 29, 2010)

I would agree with Ray. High nitrogen fertilizer promotes vegetative growth, not flowering.


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## Paul (Jan 29, 2010)

etex said:


> I would agree with Ray. High nitrogen fertilizer promotes vegetative growth, not flowering.



I'm not sure of that with the polyantha section... I would have said the contrary for them: bigger growths = best chance of bloom
But I can be wrong


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## Ernie (Jan 29, 2010)

Paul said:


> I'm not sure of that with the polyantha section... I would have said the contrary for them: bigger growths = best chance of bloom
> But I can be wrong



I dunno, looks like you have a mature plant that's been very well grown and the leaves look good and sturdy. It's as strong as one could expect. I doubt it lacks nitrogen. 

-Ernie


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## NYEric (Jan 30, 2010)

If that plant is mature, does that mean blooming size? If so, he has a giant mitt for a hand.


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