# Suggestions to Cross with Paph Varvara



## paphreek (Sep 3, 2006)

I'm getting ready to pollinate my Paph Varvara 'Penn Valley' AM/AOS and I'm interested in ideas from the group.






Feel free to come up with any ideas. Below are pictures of plants I have to help you get started, but please don't limit yourself to these ideas. I have pollen from many other species and hybrids.

The first idea would be a remake: Paph Varvara x charlesworthii = Paph Margaret Rose , one AOS award.





Paph Harbur 'Perfection' HCC/AOS





Paph Via Luna Este 'China Doll' AM/AOS


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## paphreek (Sep 3, 2006)

Here's a few others to consider
Maybe a complex white like Paph Mem. Howard King 'Marriott's Dreamdust' AM/AOS





Paph Barbi-Doll





Paph concolor





Paph henryanum


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## Kyle (Sep 3, 2006)

Oh, I do like it when you have these little 'contests'!

My vote is for either the complex white, howard king (improved shape) or for barbi doll (another shot of fairianum and hopefully will make the plant smaller)

Let us know what you decide!

Kyle


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## Heather (Sep 3, 2006)

I vote for crossing with charlesworthii or henryanum. 

I love these 'contests' too! Keep 'em coming, please Ross.


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## Stephan (Sep 3, 2006)

Don't ask me why but I believe the concolor would be you best choice.

Cheers
Stephan


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## myxodex (Sep 3, 2006)

OK ... firstly I'm a complete beginner and know nothing about paph breeding ...
but I'd go for Barbi-Doll ... for me both have a nice "open" structure and why go destroy this elegant form with something round and squat! Besides I like small and perky.
Cheers,
Tim


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## Rick (Sep 3, 2006)

I think Parvara is already to "busy" to add more spots or textures.

I would put it on the complex white or via luna este.

By the way, how often do your crosses take? I've been trying some big phal crosses with little success.


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## TADD (Sep 3, 2006)

In keeping with your smaller breeding.. My vote is for henryanum or barbi-doll. Let us know!


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## Candace (Sep 3, 2006)

Paphreek, I've been looking for your Varvara clone for several years. I had this same plant, but it succumbed to a really bad scale infestation. I'd love to buy a division from you or trade....please shoot me an e-mail. Thanks!


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## SlipperFan (Sep 3, 2006)

My vote is for charlesworthii or back to fairrieanum.


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## TADD (Sep 3, 2006)

Your after my heart Dot! I didn't say that for redundancy!


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## paphreek (Sep 3, 2006)

Thanks for all the comments, so far. I should have given you more info about Varvara. It is a complex x species cross of fairrieanum x Clair de Lune. Clair de Lune through a combining in four generations of crosses is comprised of lawreceanum, callosum and cutisii. The leaves have the thin shape of fairrieanum, but are longer. The flowers are perched atop a 30 cm. stem with these dimensions: Natural spread: about 8.5cm, doral width about 5cm.

Rick, I'm just guessing, but I'd say I get about 50% pollination success. Of those 50%, some have very little viable seed. Success can vary depending on what type of cross, also. For instance, I pollinated 6 Barbi-Doll's and used their pollen on two other plants for a total of eight crosses. Only two of the Barbi-Dolls are currently holding capsules. That's an initial succes rate of 25%. Time will tell if the seed is viable.


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## paphreek (Sep 3, 2006)

TADD said:


> In keeping with your smaller breeding.. My vote is for henryanum or barbi-doll. Let us know!



I may use Varvara pollen on the Barbi- Doll. I currently have one in bloom that has a very tall stem like Varvara


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## slippertalker (Sep 3, 2006)

I have Paph Varvara "Searle 13" which has an HCC/AOS. I would guess that your clone is pretty similar in flower and plant size. The coloration is very close. The plant and flowers are closer to fairreanum than Claire de Lune.

It sort of depends on what your goals are for the hybrid. I would line breed it to fairreanum or try something new like henryanum. Henryanum will enhance the spotting on the dorsal, perhaps bringing some green background. It has a tendency to breed pink pouches which would be very nice with Varvara, and the petals will still deflect down similar to Varvara with dark color. It would be a variable darkly colored hybrid of dwarf character.

The other choices wouldn't really enhance the Varvara in my opinion.


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## paphreek (Sep 3, 2006)

I agree that a back cross to fairrieanum would be interesting. I can, however, get flasks of Varvara x fairrieanum from Orchidaceae, Inc. Purchasing a flask or two from them would save another year or two over trying the cross myself. http://www.orchidaceae.com/flasks.cfm?section=14 Right now, I'm leaning toward putting charlesworthii on Varvara, and using some of the Varvara pollen on Barbi-Doll and henryanum. The henryanum is a first bloom with four growths and I'm just waiting to see how the dorsal turns out before using it to breed or not. Thanks for all the great comments! I look forward to more.


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## Ron-NY (Sep 5, 2006)

a fairrieanum alba or charlesworthii alba with it would be neat cross!


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## slippertalker (Sep 5, 2006)

Using an alba on a colored parent will produce all colored progeny. A sib cross or selfing on the next generation might produce some alba clones. Even albas crossed with each other don't always produce albas......


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## littlefrog (Sep 5, 2006)

Winston Churchill

Winston Churchill x fairrieanum = Oto. 
Winston Churchill x Varvara = Awesome... 

Make that cross and I'll buy a couple flasks...


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## paphreek (Sep 5, 2006)

littlefrog said:


> Winston Churchill
> 
> Winston Churchill x fairrieanum = Oto.
> Winston Churchill x Varvara = Awesome...
> ...



I could do (Varvara x Winston Churchill 'Indomitable') or (Winston Chuchill 'Redoubtable' x Varvara). Unfortunately my 'Indomitable' clone is not in good enough shape to carry a pod this year.


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## littlefrog (Sep 5, 2006)

paphreek said:


> I could do (Varvara x Winston Churchill 'Indomitable') or (Winston Chuchill 'Redoubtable' x Varvara). Unfortunately my 'Indomitable' clone is not in good enough shape to carry a pod this year.


 
I'd offer my "Redoubtable" if it were in bloom. I suspect WC as the pod parent would be better, but it might work either way.


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## Kyle (Sep 5, 2006)

Do you guys know the ploidy of Winston Churchill? 2N, 3N or 4N?

Kyle


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## Jon in SW Ohio (Sep 5, 2006)

I vote rothschildianum...of course.

Another I would like to see is your Varvara crossed with tigrinum, making a darker possilby more colorful Bailey Kalina.

Jon
________
Buy glass bongs


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## paphreek (Sep 5, 2006)

littlefrog said:


> I'd offer my "Redoubtable" if it were in bloom. I suspect WC as the pod parent would be better, but it might work either way.



I do have 'Redoubtable' in bud. The Varvara pollen should store OK until the flower opens. Now the question is which is better: using WC as the capsule parent with the 'Redoubtable' clone or giving the progeny a double dose of dorsal spots by using WC 'Indomitable' pollen on the Varvara?

roth x Varvara (1/2 fairrieanum) : sounds like it might be a tough on to bloom, but if anyone has a roth that they want to pollinate, I'll donate pollen.

Ploidy on Winston Churchill? I've seen somewhere reference to the fact that at least the 'Indomitable' clone is a tetraploid.


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## littlefrog (Sep 6, 2006)

Has enough spots for my taste already. I think you are looking to improve size and form with the WC cross, not spots.

I'm pretty sure the roth cross would be painful to bloom. I've got similar breeding purchased no less than 10 years ago that has still never bloomed. It sounded like a good idea at the time, I'm sure. 

I think all of the bulldogs are tetraploid at best, but probably aneuploid (not an evenly divisible chromosome count). Some individual chromosomes might be 4 copies, some two, some three, etc... I could be completely wrong, I don't know where I heard that. I'd like to see the actual chromosome spread on these... Somebody go do that real quick! *grin*


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