# "Odd" new growths on my nigritum aka. barbatum



## Candace (Feb 12, 2008)

I've had this plant for probably 5 years and it's been in s/h for 4. It's grown and bloomed easily for me, but this year it's got 2 new growths and they're very different looking than all the other old growths. The plant is very healthy and happy and here's a picture of it to show it's not stressed in any way I can see.






Here are it's 2 newest growths which are growing on stems. They aren't stolons that run through the media, just stems that almost look like keikes.









Now, I don't grow many paphs from this group since I'm simply not attracted to them visually. But, is this species prone to climbing? Before all the jokes about it trying to escape s/h, the plant is happy like I mentioned above. Or is there something culturally going on?


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## charlie c (Feb 12, 2008)

Candace,

I've seen see before on others members of this group; callosum, urbanium, and Maudiae. I have no scientific proof to back this up, but I think, when they're really happy they seem to "auto-divide". The "lead" will act like a seedling. Smallish growth, followed by a larger growth, and then a blooming growth. 

It's different, but I don't think it's bad. I usually let them develop new roots and then pot up separately. Had a Maudiae 'Bankhaus' (aka "The Queen") put out five of these last season. 

Hope this takes helps take the angst out of it for you.

charlie c


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## paphioboy (Feb 12, 2008)

Candace, I agree with charlie.. barbatum seems to like doing this.. I've had a plant done this.. I read somewhere that this probably arises because the plant does not like the medium.. Or, another explanation is that in its natural habitat, it must continually grow upwards so that it does not become buried under the layers of leaf litter...


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## Candace (Feb 12, 2008)

> I usually let them develop new roots and then pot up separately.


 Well, I think I'm going to have to do something with them as the roots are going to dry out eventually. Especially since warmer weather is on it's way. Finally!



> I read somewhere that this probably arises because the plant does not like the medium..


 I'd say I agree with this if not for the fact that this one is happier and healthier now than it's ever been. 

I didn't spend any time researching the species or where it grows, but if others in this group do this, at least I know it's normal.


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## Gilda (Feb 12, 2008)

Candace said:


> Well, I think I'm going to have to do something with them as the roots are going to dry out eventually. Especially since warmer weather is on it's way. Finally!
> 
> .


How long will you let the roots get before you do something ? What are you leaning toward doing ?


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## Heather (Feb 12, 2008)

I've seen this. You need to talk to Rob Halgren for more details. I believe he said "The Queen" is known for this issue.. There are photos around here somewhere I think...I will go do some looking....

*Edit - Gilda, I'm dealing with the same issue with my Mexi - how long do you wait before you repot? I'm losing roots at this point and so it's going down (literally). Some of the growths will just have to be buried in order to get the new stolons down in the mix so they can continue to grow. 

I wish we knew a little more about how to deal with this. I realize we've had discussions about besseae but these others are also difficult to deal with.


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## Candace (Feb 12, 2008)

Most likely I'll wait a little longer and then cut them off and pot them in spag. moss. I've tried wrapping crawling phrags like this in moss and using a rubber band or twist tie to keep it around the roots. I wasn't able to keep it moist enough for the roots to be happy, so it didn't work well for me. I have good success rehabbing paphs or phrags with no roots in spag. The don't grow well long term in spag for me, but new roots and stressed plants have better odds in it for me.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Feb 12, 2008)

This is very typical of barbatum, sukhakulii, and some types of callosum...the sublaeve/"thailandense" types. And yes, I've seen it on "The Queen", although its more of a species trait for the most part. I have also seen it on maudiae X multifloral crosses. Take care, Eric


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## Rick (Feb 12, 2008)

I see these all the time on my barbata's (i.e.the whole subgenera). Most barbata's grow on forest floors and other areas where duff accumulation and/or moss growth is pretty high, so the base of the plant is frequently getting buried, and the plant is growing to stay above the accumulation. Sometimes you get what could be called keikis along the stem just above those roots.

If the humidity is high and light stays low around the base those roots will go all the way down to the substrate. Sometimes the plant will lay over and start crawling like ivy.


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## Rick (Feb 12, 2008)

paphioboy said:


> Or, another explanation is that in its natural habitat, it must continually grow upwards so that it does not become buried under the layers of leaf litter...



Yeah. What he saidoke:


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## NYEric (Feb 13, 2008)

Rick said:


> Sometimes the plant will lay over and start crawling like ivy.



AIEEE!!! Mutant plants moving across the Nuclear wasteland!! :rollhappy:


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## charlie c (Feb 13, 2008)

Just thinking out loud here. 

The premise posed by paphioboy and Rick that in nature these plants rise up so as not to be buried under falling detritus seems reasonable and logical. I would assume under tropical conditions that decomposition would be fairly rapid leading to a flush of nutrients becoming available to the plant. I'm wondering if this is a chemical signal that causes the plant to rise up. And if the solution to the "problem" may not be backing up on the fertilizer regimen?

Any thoughts?

charlie c


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## Heather (Feb 13, 2008)

NYEric said:


> AIEEE!!! Mutant plants moving across the Nuclear wasteland!! :rollhappy:



Eric, you are such a nut.


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## NYEric (Feb 13, 2008)

MMMMM..macadamias!


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## Candace (Feb 13, 2008)

That's funny, I would have pegged you as a pistachio.


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## NYEric (Feb 13, 2008)

Err..thanx?


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## Rick (Feb 13, 2008)

charlie c said:


> Just thinking out loud here.
> 
> The premise posed by paphioboy and Rick that in nature these plants rise up so as not to be buried under falling detritus seems reasonable and logical. I would assume under tropical conditions that decomposition would be fairly rapid leading to a flush of nutrients becoming available to the plant. I'm wondering if this is a chemical signal that causes the plant to rise up. And if the solution to the "problem" may not be backing up on the fertilizer regimen?
> 
> ...



That's an interesting point Charilie. Not sure what to think about this. I think there may be a hormonal basis for this, but not sure if its triggered by nutrition, environment, or combination of both. The species that do this are usually the ones typically in low light conditions so I think this will happen to all healthy barbata's under low light conditions. In the forest if it gets bright then your source of leaf litter may have left too, and subsequently there's no need to grow tall.

I have seen plenty of flasks of seedlings that do this leggy thing, and it might possibly be tied to density/overcrowding so maybe a potential for low nutrients with high hormone levels.


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## Corbin (Feb 14, 2008)

Interesting. I have a callosum var. sublaeve that started two growths under the media and one up on the stem. I'll try to get a picture this weekend.


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## rdlsreno (Feb 15, 2008)

charlie c said:


> Candace,
> 
> I've seen see before on others members of this group; callosum, urbanium, and Maudiae. I have no scientific proof to back this up, but I think, when they're really happy they seem to "auto-divide". The "lead" will act like a seedling. Smallish growth, followed by a larger growth, and then a blooming growth.
> 
> ...




I agree!!


Ramon


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## charlie c (Feb 15, 2008)

Rick said:


> I think there may be a hormonal basis for this, but not sure if its triggered by nutrition, environment, or combination of both. The species that do this are usually the ones typically in low light conditions so I think this will happen to all healthy barbata's under low light conditions. In the forest if it gets bright then your source of leaf litter may have left too, and subsequently there's no need to grow tall.
> 
> I have seen plenty of flasks of seedlings that do this leggy thing, and it might possibly be tied to density/overcrowding so maybe a potential for low nutrients with high hormone levels.



Rick,

Thanks for your insight. It makes a lot of sense. Especially if the sexual reproduction rate of some Paphs in nature is as low as reported, then maybe vegetative propagation takes on a more significant roll. 

Plant physiology is not my strong suit. Which is why I ask questions. I appreciate the answer.

charlie c


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## Rick (Feb 15, 2008)

charlie c said:


> Rick,
> 
> Thanks for your insight. It makes a lot of sense. Especially if the sexual reproduction rate of some Paphs in nature is as low as reported, then maybe vegetative propagation takes on a more significant roll.
> 
> ...



I'm glad you like my answer, but I may be guessing no more than you. I have some friends who are much more knowledgeable than me on plant physiology (that I get some info from) but I'm more of an ecologist by trade. Keep thinking about it, and we may ultimately figure it out.


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