# Besseae freak show!



## Mathias (Oct 26, 2010)

Hello all,

My Phragmipedium besseae is flowering for the first time and the result is quite depressing!  What may cause these malformed flowers? Notice that the bud is almost missing its sepals, and they do not cover the petals and labellum. The bud is the second on the stalk so it appears that all flowers on this stalk will be malformed in the same way.

Is it genetic, i.e. the plant in the waste bin. Or could it be due to something else (what?) and I should keep it until it flowers again?

The plant itself is large and in good health (see picture). Two new leads are just emerging.

This is my first Phrag. besseae, and I was really looking forward to the flowers. Bummer... :sob:


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## NYEric (Oct 26, 2010)

Wow! A true Lurker. Are you using purified water?


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## Mathias (Oct 26, 2010)

Yes, I am alternating between rain water and RO water depending on what I have avaliable. With a very weak balanced fertilizer when in growth (I flush the pot regularly).


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## Shiva (Oct 26, 2010)

Bummer! Still, I would wait for a second flowering and maybe give a bit more fertilizer. What's your growing temperature, night and day, watering schedule. potting mix?


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## Mathias (Oct 26, 2010)

Shiva said:


> Bummer! Still, I would wait for a second flowering and maybe give a bit more fertilizer. What's your growing temperature, night and day, watering schedule. potting mix?



Temperature is around 24 C/19 C (75F/66F). Maybe a bit warmer in July-August when it was hot here. Planted in straight sphagnum and kept very moist. The pot stands in a water filled saucer (1 cm water) and I water the pot when the saucer is empty.


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## Shiva (Oct 26, 2010)

Day temperatures look right on but it might flower better with night temps around 15C. Since you're giving it low doses of a balanced fertilizer, most of it may go to the leafy stem leaving little incentive to flower. Maybe you should change fertilizer and give it a flower booster dose when the next new growths reach maturity. In other words, I would suggest a little more fertilizer, cooler nights and a flower booster fertilizer at maturity. If that doesn't work, you can keep it as a green plant or trash it. Wish you luck.


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## goldenrose (Oct 26, 2010)

Mathias - you might need to spend more time here.....
you will find this is NOT unusual for a first bloom phrag, disappointing yes but it happens. Most of us have seen worse! Could it bloom normal the next time? Certainly! Why? you might not ever know. Could it simply be a bit too young & immature? Could it have been in need of more nutrients? maybe, but could it be getting too many? The list of its, buts & maybe's can go on & on ....
if you don't like the bloom, cut it off & give it another try. If it throws more deformed blooms then yes it's probably genetic and you know where to put it!


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## SlipperFan (Oct 26, 2010)

Welcome to the forum, Mathias. 
It may be that the second flower on this inflorescence will look better. Even if it doesn't, I agree with the others: Keep growing it, and wait until the second blooming before making a major decision.
One question: How old is the sphagnum it's planted in. If it hasn't been replaced in a year, it may be causing problems.


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## cnycharles (Oct 26, 2010)

hello mathias,
others have already given good advice, but if it doesn't work out and the flowers are still iffy, you could find a club member who doesn't have any phrags (but would like some) and give it to them to practice on. if it's a healthy plant it could have some use for someone that doesn't know how to grow them yet; if it dies in their care then they learned something and you still have more space on your shelf for another one


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Oct 26, 2010)

While some deformities are permanent, these don't strike me as being permanent. Give it another chance to bloom, and see what happens then. Even my best plants have thrown out an occasional dud like this bud.


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## Yoyo_Jo (Oct 26, 2010)

I have this same problem, though mine is on it's third bloom and they've been getting progressively worse...I'll post mine later.


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## SlipperKing (Oct 26, 2010)

If you do decide to keep it for another flower go, I'd be cutt'in the flower stem now. No need in looking at uglies and it will help speed things along. BTW welcome.


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## NYEric (Oct 26, 2010)

At least it has a new growth. try a less moisture retentive media.


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## Mathias (Oct 27, 2010)

Thank you for the fantastic response!  I guess goldenrose is right, I should be more active in this fantastic forum instead of just hiding in the shadows... I have quite recently started with slippers and need to learn more. Two weeks ago I flowered my first Phrag, which was P. Shroederae. That one at least had nicely shaped flowers. Will post a pic later. 

The general consensus seem to be that this probably not is genetic and I should give the plant a second try. I will make a few changes in the culture and see if next flowering is better. 

Shiva - Now when I think of it, I reduced the fertilizer as the shoot matured and have not increased it yet. So that might have been a big mistake then? I guess I am too used to grow Cattleyas... 

Slipperfan - I repotted it about 3 months ago so the media is still fresh

Yoyo_Jo - Sorry to hear that you also were awarded with a deformed flower. 

Slipperking - Yes, I will cut the spike as soon as I see how the second flower develops.


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## tomkalina (Oct 27, 2010)

Hi Mathias,

I've seen this type of deformity in Phrag. besseae flowers when day temps are abnormally high during bud formation. Since the plant looks large and healthy, I'd bloom it again under cooler conditions before deciding whether to keep it. 

Thanks,


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## NYEric (Oct 27, 2010)

If you are in the USA you can throw it away to me!


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## smartie2000 (Oct 27, 2010)

I dont have experience with deformed besseae blooms, though I did think it could be a temperature issue. Some besseae are prone to more deformities in high temps


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## Bolero (Oct 29, 2010)

I think it's just bad luck, wait and see what the next flowering brings.


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## Mathias (Dec 9, 2010)

Remember this plant? Well, I never cut the spike and the flowers have been successively better in shape. The third flower actually had fully formed sepals, the fourth decent shape and this is the fifth flower. 







The only thing I did was to make sure it got fertilized. I wonder if this was just a case of a first time bloomer having to learn its ways...


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## SlipperKing (Dec 9, 2010)

Nice comeback!!


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## JeanLux (Dec 9, 2010)

Fine shape!!! Jean


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## Leo Schordje (Dec 9, 2010)

Nice flower, great recovery, what ever you are doing now, don't change it. Like Tom Kalina's comment, I see those types of deformity when it is too hot, so December weather really appeals to your besseae.


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## NYEric (Dec 9, 2010)

Yay besseae! Looking good, and a successive bloomer!


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