# New challenge



## dodidoki (Oct 6, 2014)

Here are two vittatums. One from Sam ( many thanks again for him patience) and from Jerry Fischer . I think both are from Tom's culture. I got instructions for them, too. I try to follow it adapted to my own circumstances. Mix: milled sphagnum ( 40%), akadama ( 15%), kanuma(15%), perlite (15%), seramis(15%)
I water them only from bottom, I sink the pot into 10 ppm N K-lite solution on every second day. They stand just in front of fans ( avoid from rot) on wet gravel. And a lots of prayers....


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## tomkalina (Oct 6, 2014)

Hi Istvan,

The only thing I can see that may be a problem is fertilizing every two days. I think you will begin to see some leaf tip die-back over time. Here, we fertilize this species only once every month with K-Lite at 10 ppm N equivalent - very light feeding and not very often. Feeding at a higher rate or more frequently has always resulted in problems for us. I don't think this is on our culture sheet, but in summer we place the pots in rain water collected from our roof instead of R/O. The birds in the area contribute a small amount of natural fertilizer to the collected rain water and the plants seem to respond favorably.. Also, I would suggest placing the pots directly into a plastic tray with water (R/O or rain) approx 1 cm in depth instead of in wet gravel, and especially not in a clay saucer. IMHO - I think this combination of gravel in a clay saucer in front of a fan will keep the roots much too cool. Hope this helps! It's a great species.


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## dodidoki (Oct 6, 2014)

tomkalina said:


> Hi Istvan,
> 
> The only thing I can see that may be a problem is fertilizing every two days. I think you will begin to see some leaf tip die-back over time. Here, we fertilize this species only once every month with K-Lite at 10 ppm N equivalent - very light feeding and not very often. Feeding at a higher rate or more frequently has always resulted in problems for us. I don't think this is on our culture sheet, but in summer we place the pots in rain water collected from our roof instead of R/O. The birds in the area contribute a small amount of natural fertilizer to the collected rain water and the plants seem to respond favorably.. Also, I would suggest placing the pots directly into a plastic tray with water (R/O or rain) approx 1 cm in depth instead of in wet gravel, and especially not in a clay saucer. IMHO - I think this combination of gravel in a clay saucer in front of a fan will keep the roots much too cool. Hope this helps! It's a great species.



Many thanks Tom, I will do this way in future about fertilizing.


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## Rick (Oct 6, 2014)

I got one from Tom about a year ago and its still plugging right along.

I moved it to a basic CHC mix and still give it the daily spritz with 5-10ppm K light with a dash of my Mg/PO4/SO4 mix.

After repotting getting tons of new roots and another new leaf starting with no leaf tip burn.

It lives right next to the fisheri, richteri, pearcei, hirtzii, and lindlyanum all getting similar treatment, so not finding this individual to be shockingly different from all my other water loving phrags.

Grow it big and bloom it Istvan!


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## Rick (Oct 7, 2014)

I think regardless of daily versus monthly, its interesting how the pendulem has swung away from much higher rates and the search for the "missing" secret bullet to cutting way back on basic macros that seem to be making this species easier to deal with.

Also I would expect water/nutirient retention to be much higher in a mix with sphagnum added as opposed to standard top down watering through a fairly open CHC media.


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## tomkalina (Oct 7, 2014)

Good points, Rick. I think we totally over-estimate the nutrient levels in most (if not all) Phrag. habitats and end up over-feeding. The other thing I noticed is this species grows better once there's a mat of moss growing on the mix surface. This moss requires low solids water to thrive, and it could be the moss roots contribute amine compounds (and ultimately N) - which means they need even less fertilizer once this moss develops. I took photo just now to illustrate the moss mat; the plant is P. vittatum 'Birchwood' (x self).


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## SlipperKing (Oct 7, 2014)

Very interesting exchange of info guys, thanks. On with the moss Istvan!


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## dodidoki (Oct 7, 2014)

Tom, two plants from two sellers. One arrived with burned tip on one of its leaves, you can see it on pic. Other arrived with rotting lowest leaf ( I removed it immediately, there is no any sign of further rot). So I can imagine what a hard to keep plant it is....so I 'm very glad for every advice.

Rick, many thanks for your help and good wishes!


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## tomkalina (Oct 7, 2014)

Istvan, Can you get a better photo of the "burned leaf tip"?


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## Rick (Oct 7, 2014)

I think that's an interesting point on the live moss Tom.

I spiked some moss into the pot for mine a ways back and its also a solid mat now.


What is the LS of a blooming size growth?


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## tomkalina (Oct 7, 2014)

Hi Rick,

Ours bloomed at an average of 26" leaf span, although this species was purported to have reached a 72" leaf span (!) in the wild. As far as spiking the pots with moss, we do that as well. Actually, the easy way to spike the pots with moss is to put a hand-full of moss into a blender (preferably without your wife's knowledge) and then pouring the resultant "soup" through the pots you're trying to inoculate. Works better than trying to transplant little clumps of moss.


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## dodidoki (Oct 8, 2014)

Dear Tom and Rick ( and anyone, who tried with this guy)!
Could you tell me about its growing speed???(eg. I got a longifolium album NBS size from Jerry Fischer, it bloomed few months later and now it has a fairly nice new growth, so I can tell it is VERY fast grower.




Here is an update photo of long. album..


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## dodidoki (Oct 8, 2014)

But I'm in trouble with these vittatums....I did all thing as advised, but there were another rotting sign on one of lower leaves...I removed it. It is strange because they are standing in front of fan and I always water them only by sinking the pot ( not fully only 2/3 part of pots) in water...temp is about 18-20 C...maybe I have to increase it?


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## dodidoki (Oct 8, 2014)

Tip of leaf...this one is the sick plant. But I think these spots are harmless. But I worry about rotting ( and don't understand).


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## dodidoki (Oct 8, 2014)

Another fast grower is "so called" my vittatum, a got it as vit, but now I can see it is very different from other real ones...but I started with this similar, almost killed it by rot...now it is in blooming size, probably species, because it is from selfing of a wild collected plant, but god knows what it is untill its blooming.I got is two years ago.


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## Ruth (Oct 8, 2014)

> Actually, the easy way to spike the pots with moss is to put a hand-full of moss into a blender (preferably without your wife's knowledge) and then pouring the resultant "soup" through the pots you're trying to inoculate. Works better than trying to transplant little clumps of moss.


Very interesting. Where do you get the moss, and do you pour it on all the phrags you grow? Do you do this with paphs also?


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## tomkalina (Oct 8, 2014)

Hi Istvan,

I don't think the leaf spotting shown on Sam's vittatum is something I'd be concerned about as long as it doesn't spread. Also, this is a warm growing species and any condition that chills the roots (open, porous mix + clay saucer in front of fan) will not be good for the plant. If you're not able to find the mix I suggested, I would use a simple formula of 50% fine peat moss, 25 % coarse Perlite and 25% fine (#3 size) charcoal. All of these components should be readily available. Hope this helps..


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## tomkalina (Oct 8, 2014)

Hi Ruth,

We started harvesting the moss from the surface of Phrag. vittatum pots years ago. The moss grows readily on the mix surface as long as the conductivity of the irrigation water is less than 100 uS - very low solids water. As long as the water is of this quality, the moss will grow in any of the slipper orchid pots - Paphs as well as Phrags. We especially like to see this happening in compots because it seems to give the seedlings a boost. 

More and more, we are realizing better plant growth at much lower feed/TDS rates than previously thought appropriate, thanks to Rick's work in this area.


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## SlipperFan (Oct 8, 2014)

Interesting, about moss.


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## Brabantia (Oct 9, 2014)

tomkalina said:


> If you're not able to find the mix I suggested, I would use a simple formula of 50% fine peat moss, 25 % coarse Perlite and 25% fine (#3 size) charcoal.



When you say peat moss is it the light brown material we name in Europa Tourbe (this material is also existing in Canada), or dry sphagnum or maybe living sphagnum? Thanks to let me informed.


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## dodidoki (Oct 9, 2014)

Thanks, Tom. How about its normal growig speed? ( mine ones are about 10" LS)


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## tomkalina (Oct 9, 2014)

It's Canadian milled peat moss - we get it at Home Depot in 2 cu ft bales. There are a lot of small twigs mixed in with it, but we remove these prior to making the mix. Not sure if it's sphagnum peat.


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## tomkalina (Oct 9, 2014)

Istvan,

It takes about five years to mature a growth from the time we pot them up individually from compot. At 10" size - and given the proper growing conditions - about three years.


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## eteson (Oct 9, 2014)

tomkalina said:


> More and more, we are realizing better plant growth at much lower feed/TDS rates than previously thought appropriate, thanks to Rick's work in this area.



Totally agree!


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## dodidoki (Oct 9, 2014)

eteson said:


> Totally agree!



Even more I have heard a presentation of an excursion by one of my orchid lover friend. She -she is a Lady- said that she saw enormous bessae clumps in wild on a completely bald rock and the water coming from the mount is always was flowing around the plants. Imagine the tds of this water...maybe 6-8 ppm?????No more.


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## Rick (Oct 9, 2014)

dodidoki said:


> Imagine the tds of this water...maybe 6-8 ppm?????No more.



That really is hard to predict from here Istvan

I have spring water gurgling out of limestone rock just down the hill from my house with TDS in the 300-400 range. But N P K will all be less than 1 ppm. Nothing but Ca and Mg for cations. In some cases the limestone around here in TN is very rich in P. But around the world it is rare to find geology with high N and K in drainage.

I have also checked spring water about 50 miles from my house, coming out of a shallow perched aquifer with TDS in the 10 or so ppm range too.


So it really is hard to predict from the comfort of our computers if TDS will be high or low, but you can generally predict the TDS will be mostly calcium and magnesium salts of sulfate, chloride or bicarbonate:wink:


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## dodidoki (Nov 2, 2014)

Smething moving into right direction. When I got these olants I almost got hearache when I saw tha all of the begun to rot ( lowest leaves). I emmedialely chage the system, so they don't stand in water only wet gravelin front of fan and I sinkt them into water only 3/4 depth of pot .
One has started to grow a new leaf and a new growth, second has startaed 3 new growts.


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## Ruth (Nov 2, 2014)

It looks like you them growing on the right track.


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## SlipperFan (Nov 2, 2014)

Excellent! The plants are responding well.


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## NYEric (Nov 2, 2014)

Nice, thanks for the info.


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## Rick (Nov 16, 2014)

Those growth starts are an awesome sight!!!!


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## NYEric (Nov 16, 2014)

Good luck. I feel for all you species folks.


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## Lmpgs (Nov 16, 2014)

Congrats!!


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