# Paphiopedilum hirsutissimum confirmation



## marcher85 (Apr 15, 2020)

I presented this plant to some people in an orchid society and the said it is not a species. They suggested it should be a hybrid of the name in the label (hirsutissimum). What do you think? 

Thanks 

Marco


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## troy (Apr 15, 2020)

Not a hybrid, 100% hirsutussimum species


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 16, 2020)

I concur with Troy. In all respects of flower colour, staminode patterns and leaves, it falls within the range of Paph. hirsutissimum, more specifically the darker larger version of the esquirolei variety (which to some is a species in its own rank).


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## tomkalina (Apr 16, 2020)

Ditto. The people who told you that were wrong.


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## marcher85 (Apr 16, 2020)

Thank you Troy and DrLeslieEe. Tomkalina I Really don’t know.


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## Ozpaph (Apr 17, 2020)

What about the flower made them question its label?


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## richgarrison (Apr 17, 2020)

Adding on to @Ozpaph question...

Did those folks puff up their chests before suggesting it was not the species? 

i ask that because i have seen that in action... and feel badly for both the chest puffers (that they feel the need to do so) and the recipients, since they are typically intimated and walk away with a little less happiness than when that all started.

Good choice to turn to this forum... 

It is vast resource of knowledge and good people... 

(and chest puffers get called out pretty quickly  )

btw i should have started with 

NICE FLower! and nicely grown...


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## Duck Slipper (Apr 24, 2020)

I guess they think it is just too good to be a specie...great flower, great plant!


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 26, 2020)

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck …. it must be …. a chicken? LOL
It's a duck I tell you *)


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## Guldal (Apr 26, 2020)

OMG...I just realize, that, if the people at your orchid society are right, I've been seriously duped by my friend and, in all matters orchidiadic, mentor, Hans Christiansen... and he with this 50+ years experience as a professional orchid grower and nursery owner must have been seriously fooled, too (see one of my latest threads: P. hirsutissimum- newbie)


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## marcher85 (Apr 26, 2020)

I just wanted to say that maybe the members of the Orchid Society may have had a different perspective because they saw it by video and not live. They have been very supportive of me and I didn’t feel they had bad intention with the comment, just a simple opinión.
I came here by a friend’s recommendation to confirm it was a species. He wrote: “you will find the experts to resolve the doubts in slyppertalk forum”, and I did.
Thank you so much for your support and responses.


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 27, 2020)

It’s good that the OS is friendly and good to each other. Foster that and enjoy the future socialization.


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 27, 2020)

Guldal said:


> OMG...I just realize, that, if the people at your orchid society are right, I've been seriously duped by my friend and, in all matters orchidiadic, mentor, Hans Christiansen... and he with this 50+ years experience as a professional orchid grower and nursery owner must have been seriously fooled, too (see one of my latest threads: P. hirsutissimum- newbie)


Jens, I don’t understand this. Did you mean that Hans said it (yours) wasn’t a hirsutissinum?


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## Guldal (Apr 27, 2020)

DrLeslieEe said:


> Jens, I don’t understand this.



I don't blame you for that, Leslie! It eems to be just yet another go at being sarcastic in another language than my mother tongue, that misfired...or at least needs to be spelled out!  

What I meant was: if the people at Marco's orchid society are right, and his plant isn't a species, i.e. P. hirsutissimum, then my newly acquired plant isn't either... and both I and mr. Christiansen have both been terribly fooled. 
That that could be true on my part is more than likely, but what mr. Christiansen concerns with his 50+ years of experience as independent nursery owner and many years of being a judge, also internationally, and being in these parts of the world a quite renowned person (e.g. honorary member for life of the EOC; having the albino form of P. hennisianum fma. christiansenii and the species Phragmipedium christiansenianum named after him)....I doubt it!

What might be debatable is whether it's a hirsutissimum of the typical form, or whether it's var. esquirolei...to reach a higher degree of confidence in determining that, would necessitate some pretty close close-ups of the inflorecense, the ovary and the flower itself. 

Kind regards, 
Jens


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 27, 2020)

Ah yes NOW I get it lol. 

The difference between esquilorei and hirsutissinum differs from one taxonomist/hobbyist to the other. 

From how much hirsute it is to the length of the floral scape to the flower color, time of blooming, leaf size and growing conditions due to different origins. 

The unfortunate part now is that there is a mixed swarm of the two that the lines are blurred. You can find examples of hirsutissinum in a batch of esquilorei and vice versa. 

I wonder how each member here sorts this out (besides the tag saying so lol).


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## orchid527 (May 15, 2020)

DrLeslieEe said:


> Ah yes NOW I get it lol.
> 
> The difference between esquilorei and hirsutissinum differs from one taxonomist/hobbyist to the other.
> 
> ...


The answer to this question is the same as for many other things with me. I know a little bit about many things, but not a lot about any one thing, so I must defer to experts. In this case, I purchased my plant from Windy Hill Gardens. Marilyn specializes in slippers and she is a judge. This particular plant is from the cross var esquirolei Carolyn Leonard AM/AOS x Windy Hill. I believe the AOS award to a species means the plant received extra scrutiny before the award was final. Mike


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## setaylien (May 16, 2020)

According to my understanding, Paph. hirsutissimum comes from northern India and has noticeably hairy pubescence over much of the flower of a light brown colour. Paph. esquirolei, on the other hand, is from south-east Asia including Vietnam so there is a very wide geological separation between these varieties' habitats. Paph. esquirolei has less pubescence and what it has is of a dark purple hue that blends in with the underlying colours so the flower looks shinier. Esquirolei sometimes has a smaller dorsal sepal and slightly narrower petals compared to hirsutissimum; otherwise the blooms are quite similar. There is also the rarely encountered Paph. chiwuanum which is a smaller plant with smaller flowers that lacks (or almost entirely lacks) the undulations on the proximal halves of the petals found in the other two varieties. In its way var. chiwuanum is not less beautiful than the others. 
In order to preseve these three distinct varieties of P. hirsutissimum it seems obvious to me that the three should not be hybridized.


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