# Paph supardii leaf question



## Tom499 (Mar 13, 2013)

Had this seedling about 7-8 months, longest leaf is 9cm. It has been growing well, making larger, wider leaves but I'm a little concerned about the leaf colour.

Currently potted in s/h, I fertilise once a month, using Orchid Focus Grow.


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## dodidoki (Mar 13, 2013)

Lack of iron can cause similar problem. ( white new leaves)


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## dodidoki (Mar 13, 2013)

Not an orchid, but typical pic:

http://www.google.hu/imgres?imgurl=...NAUeaIDYbptQakkIDoBw&ved=0CE0Q9QEwBg&dur=7279


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## Justin (Mar 13, 2013)

feed it more often, with a balanced fert with micronutrients.


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## Tom499 (Mar 13, 2013)

Thank you for the feedback, I will increase the fertiliser regime.


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## Rick (Mar 13, 2013)

I've grown out a lot of supardii seedlings and never had one look like this, so I'd agree its a nutrition problem.

Do you have a TDS meter? Mine tend to like a lot of water, but also don't need a lot of feed. Also compared to most of my other multis they like cooler temps and lower light.


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## Paphman910 (Mar 13, 2013)

I have the same thing happen to my Paph randsii in CHC/Perlite/Moss.

I repotted it and used a high nitrogen fertilizer (25-10-10 with Calcium nitrate and Epsom salt) and it is greening back up slowly. Also I added Nutricote 20-7-10 to the mix. Seems to be working.


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## Dane (Apr 5, 2013)

Could it not be a calcium defieciency ?


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## NYEric (Apr 5, 2013)

Add Epsom salts to help calcium uptake.


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## Ozpaph (Apr 5, 2013)

I saw a specimen sized supardii in flower this week and it had plain green leaves like a St Swithin.


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## likespaphs (Apr 5, 2013)

Ozpaph said:


> I saw a specimen sized supardii in flower this week and it had plain green leaves like a St Swithin.



all the supardii i've seen also have plain green leaves
i wonder if it is because of a possible nutrient deficiency or a mislabeled plant


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## Justin (Apr 5, 2013)

i think this one does too, it's just chlorotic.


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## Stone (Apr 5, 2013)

dodidoki said:


> Lack of iron can cause similar problem. ( white new leaves)



Yes I would say its lacking iron.


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## Rick (Apr 7, 2013)

How much iron is in Orchid Focus Grow.

If its as much as most specialty orchid foods then I would wonder why this plant would be iron deficient. (Besides the fact that it looks iron deficient)

Is pot pH out of range? If pH is high then adding iron isn't going to put more iron into the plant, just makes more rust.

If pH is low, then you could have a whole host of deficiencies because the plant just doesn't work at low pH.

I would shoot for a pH of about 6.0 BTW.

I realize this is getting complex, but what I've been seeing over the last several years, when folks see plants with various conditions, they always assume a deficiency, but never consider that they are already adding way more than the plant ever needs in the first place. The symptoms of "deficiency" are the same as the symptoms of "excess" of some other element. You can correct some of these excesses by increasing the amount of something else to rebalance, but eventually this rebalancing just keeps putting more and more stuff into the system until you flat out overdo it. More likely than not by turning the potting mix into a salt lick of toxic metals.

Maybe try using less of everything , repot, water more, feed less.


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## Trithor (Apr 7, 2013)

I would say that is very sound advice


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## Tom499 (Apr 7, 2013)

Orchid Focus Grow
Compound fluid fertiliser containing calcium oxide & trace elements
2.2 : 1.2 : 2.1 100ml 112g

Analysis % w/v
Nitrogen 2.19
Nitrate nitrogen 2.19
Ammoniacal nitrogen - 
Phosphorus pentoxide
(P203) Water Soluble (P) 1.19 (0.52)
Potassium oxide (K20) (K) 2.13 (1.77)
Calcium oxide (CaO) (Ca) 1.72 (1.23)
Boron B 0.01
Copper (Cu) 0.002
Iron (Fe) 0.0704
Manganese (Mn) 0.014
Molybdenum (Mo) 0.001
Zinc (Zn) 0.0035

Also contains Magnesium, sulphur, humic acid, fulvic acid.



I have repotted, and washed through thoroughly with deionised water. I will need to do a pH test at some point.


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## Rick (Apr 7, 2013)

Tom499 said:


> Orchid Focus Grow
> 
> 2.2 : 1.2 : 2.1
> 
> ...



The ratios of NPK Ca and Mg are pretty traditional. This is just like a scaled down version of MSU with some organics thrown in. K is still higher than Ca and Mg. If you've been mixing this in straight RO water, then you could be seeing the effects of K antagonism. Try mixing it in your regular mains water if it is not too hard. That will put the balance of Ca and Mg over K. 

Do you know the hardness of your tap water?


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## Tom499 (Apr 7, 2013)

Not sure on the exact figure, but it's lethal for carnivorous plants, and I mix the orchid focus with tap water.


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## Rick (Apr 7, 2013)

Tom499 said:


> Not sure on the exact figure, but it's lethal for carnivorous plants, and I mix the orchid focus with tap water.




If this is a city water, then you should be able to get a report from the health department.

If it is that stout, the alkalinity/pH may be to high, and causing problems with the fertilizer. (Like the iron dropping out).

With the high percent of nitrates as the source of N, this fert looks like its designed for rain or RO water use. Using surface waters often compensates for some Ca/Mg shortfalls, but some waters are really crusty and need to be "thinned out".


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## Trithor (Apr 7, 2013)

Rick, after reading your threads on nutrition/K-lite, I decided that it was time to change. I am starting to think that a lot of the problems I have been experiencing are the result of K toxicity. As an interim measure I hunted a formulation with a low K to Ca/Mg ratio. The most appropriate that I could find without going to a agricultural supplier was a product which I first thought was made from Kelp. However after mixing and running it through the system, I discovered it must be made from fish. Hell it stinks! My greenhouse smells like a fish market late in the day after a heat wave. I cant even face going in there. My dogs wont move away from the door and wont stop howling. This is like a bad comedy. I guess I will give it to someone I dont really like and look for something else?


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## Rick (Apr 7, 2013)

Yikes!!

There was a thread a was back that Keithers started on organic feeds.

I found a link to an ag site that had analysis of several organic products like bat guano, fish, kelp. There was quite a bit of discrepancy between 2 different kelp products. The liquid extract had less K than Ca/Mg (not a lot less) but the dry powder product had higher K. Many of these products seem to be amended too, since they are for crop use rather than orchids (plants which use the extra K for making fruit). So you might see if you can find some calcium nitrate somewhere to "dilute" out the K in your product of choice.


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