# Problematic paphs



## dodidoki (Jan 26, 2013)

I have success with some spec. ( roths are growing fast, sanerianum growing sslower but well, barbata typ. orchids are ok, etc.), even three problematic spec. seem to be fine ( mic. album, papuanum and violascens) , last three ones are very well in sphagnum with fern.
BUT: I couldn't find the clue yet for:
*anitum and hookerae (especially volonteanum type).*
Problem is next: they don't die fast, "only" problem is that new roots stop to grow after 1-2 cm, tip turn to brown. I tried to cover new root-tips with shagnum, no good result.


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## Brabantia (Jan 26, 2013)

Which substrat do you use?


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## Paul (Jan 26, 2013)

hi,
do you think pH is low enough? 5.5 should be good for them. also I find anitum likes to be very wet at all time.


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## Paphman910 (Jan 26, 2013)

They are fussy! Lost 50% of them in treefern and perlite - TOO DRY so I had to water more often leading to major rot problem.

I am growing them in my regular mix of chc, moss, perlite with limestone chips as well as dolomite sand. They seem to be doing much better and they don't like to be too wet or too dry in the medium.

They grow in conditions suitable for my Phal bellina with lots of air movement and high humidity. They tend to rot from the base and quickly lose the bottom leaves. Be very carefully with watering them and keep them in shady area!


Paphman910


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## dodidoki (Jan 27, 2013)

Paphman910 said:


> They are fussy! Lost 50% of them in treefern and perlite - TOO DRY so I had to water more often leading to major rot problem.
> 
> I am growing them in my regular mix of chc, moss, perlite with limestone chips as well as dolomite sand. They seem to be doing much better and they don't like to be too wet or too dry in the medium.
> 
> ...



Thanks for advices!
I try to grow them in birk and aircone (2:1) mix, I also had this experience with them, that if water was less, dried out and died, I increased watering, remained roots got rot.Now I will try to increase humidity. I only would like to know the reason of phenomen " new roots grow 1 cm, stop and die".


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## dodidoki (Jan 27, 2013)

By the way,Wayne, how about your zieckianum seedlings?


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## Brabantia (Jan 28, 2013)

dodidoki said:


> I try to grow them in birk and aircone (2:1) mix,



What is that ? aircone I hope is your pot ? If birk is bark maybe it is to acid ?


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## eggshells (Jan 28, 2013)

Paul said:


> hi,
> do you think pH is low enough? 5.5 should be good for them. also I find anitum likes to be very wet at all time.



I very much agree with this.


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## dodidoki (Jan 28, 2013)

Brabantia said:


> What is that ? aircone I hope is your pot ? If birk is bark maybe it is to acid ?



Maybe I know wrong its name, it is about 1 cm diameter clay balls for hydroculture. (Blusana)


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## dodidoki (Jan 28, 2013)

Of course bark....


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## paphioboy (Jan 29, 2013)

I find hookerae easy, just slow. They supposedly like to be kept shady and for volonteanum, quite wet. I grow mine with callosum. I also have an anitum hybrid (but not the species) which I grow on the shady side. It is growing on par with my other multis.


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## Paphman910 (Jan 29, 2013)

dodidoki said:


> By the way,Wayne, how about your zieckianum seedlings?



Growing slowly, will top dress with sphagnum moss pretty soon. Not a single seedling lost!

Paphman910


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## Paphman910 (Jan 29, 2013)

dodidoki said:


> Thanks for advices!
> I try to grow them in birk and aircone (2:1) mix, I also had this experience with them, that if water was less, dried out and died, I increased watering, remained roots got rot.Now I will try to increase humidity. I only would like to know the reason of phenomen " new roots grow 1 cm, stop and die".



Make sure the roots have perlite for it to breathe! 

I am having the same problem with root growing to about 1 cm on my 2 adductum seedlings, and stops!

Paphman910


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## katzenhai2 (Jan 30, 2013)

dodidoki said:


> I only would like to know the reason of phenomen " new roots grow 1 cm, stop and die".


I'm not sure if my assumption is correct but it seems the roots get in contact with a "wrong" pH they are accustomed to. That is a very common phenomenon with problematic (ill or weak) plants.

I do the following to reactivate root growth:
My paphs are potted in CHC only and standing in 70-80% humidity (greenhouse). I add *every day* lime powder (the one you give to your lawn) to the stem and the top layer of the substrate. Spraying it through the substrate with 200 µS fertilized water (NPK 14-8-7, I'm sure any other fertilizer will fit too) and spraying under the leaves. It will need around 2 weeks for the first roots to appear. They could also stop after 1-2 cm and die but the next roots will come and these will not die and grow further.

My assumption is that roots are accustomed to the pH of the substrate and ill or weak plants are not anymore able to adjust to other substrate pHs. I've tried everything else but this was the only *sure replicable* method for root growth on dying paphs.

P. hirsutissimum before (without roots):






P. hirsutissimum after 4 months (with 4 new roots):





P. tigrinum before (no roots and ill):





P. tigrinum after 4 months (4 new roots and healthy):


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## dodidoki (Jan 31, 2013)

Very impressive and good saving, especially if there was soft rot within red circle on tigrinum. Thanks for advices.


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## Rick (Jan 31, 2013)

dodidoki said:


> Very impressive and good saving, especially if there was soft rot within red circle on tigrinum. Thanks for advices.



Did you see Paphioboy's post of insitu pics of hookerae/volunteanum?

They are growing in seeps with constant water at the roots it looks like.

More like a phrag habitat in the pictures.


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## dodidoki (Jan 31, 2013)

Rick said:


> Did you see Paphioboy's post of insitu pics of hookerae/volunteanum?
> 
> They are growing in seeps with constant water at the roots it looks like.
> 
> More like a phrag habitat in the pictures.



Yes, I have seen, and amazed especially "light" envirionment. They grow almost in dark......I think I overdosed light till this time.


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## katzenhai2 (Jan 31, 2013)

Rick said:


> Did you see Paphioboy's post of insitu pics of hookerae/volunteanum?
> They are growing in seeps with constant water at the roots it looks like.


I dont know if you guys had seen the pics of paph culture in ...uhm... thailand? Don't know... but paphs standing there in pure water which was flowing like a river - giving them steady nutrients. Nothing could rot because the water was flowing all the time. Can't imagine where I saw pics of it... that was several years ago. The paphs looked extremely healthy.



dodidoki said:


> Very impressive and good saving, especially if there was soft rot within red circle on tigrinum. Thanks for advices.


The tigrinum had no roots and suffered stress so it got a fungi on its leaves (high humidity and bad air movement). I cutted the brown spots and used charcoal powder to dry out the fungi.


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## Rick (Jan 31, 2013)

katzenhai2 said:


> I dont know if you guys had seen the pics of paph culture in ...uhm... thailand? Don't know... but paphs standing there in pure water which was flowing like a river - giving them steady nutrients. Nothing could rot because the water was flowing all the time. Can't imagine where I saw pics of it... that was several years ago. The paphs looked extremely healthy.



Pure water is essentially devoid of nutrients. Surface waters at typical fertilizer concentrations of nutrients are toxic to most macroinvertebrates and fish. At best we are talking polluted sewer water at 50ppm N and above.

A very productive stream supporting animal and plant life will have less than 5 ppm total N, less than 1ppm phosphate, and less than 4 ppm K.

With continuous stream this would easily support healthy orchids.


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## katzenhai2 (Jan 31, 2013)

I meant "completely in flowing water" - not _pure_ water as RO. And the paphs were cultured by a men... not in the wild! Sorry, I should have been more precisely!


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## Rick (Jan 31, 2013)

katzenhai2 said:


> I meant "completely in flowing water" - not _pure_ water as RO. Sorry.



No problem, but low nutrient is the key to constant exposure (not necessarily flowing).

I've measured water quality in seeps and springs in Tennessee and the water is generally very low in NPK, but can be very high in Ca and Mg.

And yes there is also lots of mosses, ferns, sedges, and sometimes even orchids.


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## paphioboy (Feb 1, 2013)

katzenhai2 said:


> I meant "completely in flowing water" - not _pure_ water as RO. And the paphs were cultured by a men... not in the wild! Sorry, I should have been more precisely!



I'm not too sure about Thailand, but in Malaysia, there is at least one slipper grower who grows in 'semi-hydro' (using regular plastic pots with drainage holes at the bottom, perlite with/without flora foam as media) sitting in at least 2-3 inches of flowing water. That system worked very well in his old location but he recently shifted to a new place where he no longer uses this system and the slippers don't look as well, especially in hot weather..


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## paphioboy (Feb 1, 2013)

I think the issue with shading is quite interesting. From my observation, it is a 'trend' to grow slippers with as much light as possible in temperate countries like the UK, US, Australia. Most of the plants bloom well (even from small growths or fans) but the leaves are often a bit pale. On the other hand, in most of Southeast Asia, slipper growers tend to go for shady growing conditions, mainly to escape the heat, but the resultant plants when grown under less light often show better foliage coloration and larger mature growths (you can refer to examples in the culture notes by Xavier in another thread).


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## katzenhai2 (Feb 1, 2013)

paphioboy said:


> I'm not too sure about Thailand, but in Malaysia, there is at least one slipper grower who grows in 'semi-hydro' (using regular plastic pots with drainage holes at the bottom, perlite with/without flora foam as media) sitting in at least 2-3 inches of flowing water. That system worked very well in his old location but he recently shifted to a new place where he no longer uses this system and the slippers don't look as well, especially in hot weather..


Sounds like that is it what I saw on pics!  Looked very interesting.


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