# Phrag. besseae



## SlipperFan (Mar 25, 2011)

'haven' x 'smokin' -- best blooming for this one so far. Anyone know what causes those lines in the petals?


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## biothanasis (Mar 25, 2011)

Cool!!!! these white lines on the petals make it special..!


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## Shiva (Mar 25, 2011)

Lovely! The phrag landscape would be very poor without that species.


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## W. Beetus (Mar 25, 2011)

Nice, round petals! Stunning!


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## fundulopanchax (Mar 25, 2011)

I have several Haven x Smokin' - really great color on these! Only one showed similar lines (somewhat more centrally placed and those only on one of the three sequential flowers. This is something I see on the occasional besseae flower. I assume some issue with bud development from time to time. 

Ron


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## AquaGem (Mar 25, 2011)

Awesome flower. Got a few of these too. Waiting for them to flower.


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## koshki (Mar 25, 2011)

Holy mackerel, that is really something!


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## Yoyo_Jo (Mar 25, 2011)

I have that exact cross; but I sure didn't get as lovely blooms as you have. Fabulous! :drool:


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## Ernie (Mar 25, 2011)

Nice, Dot!


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## Bolero (Mar 25, 2011)

Possibly the best one I have ever seen......congratulations!!!


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## smartie2000 (Mar 26, 2011)

beautiful, I love the clean lines on the pouch


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## John M (Mar 26, 2011)

Gorgeous! Awesome petals, Dot! I've never heard a good explanation for those lines, except that they are unstable and come and go.


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## NYEric (Mar 26, 2011)

Yay besseae! Those lines come when you don't get a tan under your bikini bottom!


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## JeanLux (Mar 26, 2011)

I like the color (of course) and the large petals, and this little add-on makes them unique  !!!! Jean


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## Chuck (Mar 26, 2011)

I suppose the lines are considered a fault by most, but, they do add a spark to this flower. I see small lines occasionally on some of the OZ besseaes I have. I had one recently on a Big Bob X Colossal. I don't have a clue what causes them. I don't see them on the two other besseaes I have.


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## Erythrone (Mar 26, 2011)

Wow!!!


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## John M (Mar 26, 2011)

Years ago, when besseae was still "new", I was at the Ann Arbor, Michigan judging centre, sitting next to Dr. Dick Clements. He had the most spectacular, red besseaes. Back then, 1989, all besseaes in collections were wild collected plants. Dr. Clements' plant had been turned down for scoring consideration because it had very slight "lines" like this on the petals. Although, they were shorter and not as prominent, they were enough for the judges to disqualify the plant from further consideration. Dr. Clements was actually quite disappointed because the flowers were otherwise absolutely spectacular and the marks were so very tiny. So, even plants straight from the jungle did this. It seems to be part of the "besseae condition".

Dr. Clements did his reasearch ahead of each judging (even going so far as printing out a copy of past awards and submitting these research documents with his plants at the judging sessions) and he knew that the besseaes he'd presented for judging were better than anything else that had been awarded to that date. Before he knew the reason for the plants being passed over, he asked the judges afterwards why they didn't point the plants....even for an HCC? He was told the lines in the petals (which you had to strain hard to see), were "fatal flaws". Dr. Clements was really rocked by this because according to his research ahead of time, these plants should've received point scores over 90 points, which of course, is FCC territory. He told me that he really wanted to win an FCC before he died. But, he felt he'd become a bit "persona non-grata" at that judging centre; so, he didn't attend the judgings for some months after that incident. A short while later, he wrote me all excited that he'd been back to the judging again and he won 2 FCC's! One was for a Paph. micranthum and the other was for a Paph. armeniacum; both "all covered in moss on top". He was ecstatic! Unfortunately, he passed away while gardening in his back yard before he got to see his FCC's published in the AOS AQ.


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## SlipperFan (Mar 26, 2011)

Thanks, John. Interesting story, and a little sad. But good to know these lines seem to be endemic to besseae, and not bad culture!


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## Yoyo_Jo (Mar 26, 2011)

Dot, in my thread about my deformed besseae (exact same clones used in the cross as yours) you can just see one of those white lines on one of the petals on my photo of the final bloom that was not deformed.


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## SlipperFan (Mar 27, 2011)

Thanks Joanne. I'll keep my fingers crossed.


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## goldenrose (Mar 30, 2011)

:clap::clap: they're landing lights, attracting attention!
It's a beaut Dot!


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## Leo Schordje (Mar 30, 2011)

And a few months after he died, that particular besseae was exhibited by Fox Valley (who bought most of his collection) and it won the FCC, that is besseae 'Fox Valley' FCC/AOS, but it was exhibited either in St Louis or Chicago, not Ann Arbor. So Dick's plants won at least 3 FCC's. 



John M said:


> Years ago, when besseae was still "new", I was at the Ann Arbor, Michigan judging centre, sitting next to Dr. Dick Clements. He had the most spectacular, red besseaes. Back then, 1989, all besseaes in collections were wild collected plants. Dr. Clements' plant had been turned down for scoring consideration because it had very slight "lines" like this on the petals. Although, they were shorter and not as prominent, they were enough for the judges to disqualify the plant from further consideration. Dr. Clements was actually quite disappointed because the flowers were otherwise absolutely spectacular and the marks were so very tiny. So, even plants straight from the jungle did this. It seems to be part of the "besseae condition".
> 
> Dr. Clements did his reasearch ahead of each judging (even going so far as printing out a copy of past awards and submitting these research documents with his plants at the judging sessions) and he knew that the besseaes he'd presented for judging were better than anything else that had been awarded to that date. Before he knew the reason for the plants being passed over, he asked the judges afterwards why they didn't point the plants....even for an HCC? He was told the lines in the petals (which you had to strain hard to see), were "fatal flaws". Dr. Clements was really rocked by this because according to his research ahead of time, these plants should've received point scores over 90 points, which of course, is FCC territory. He told me that he really wanted to win an FCC before he died. But, he felt he'd become a bit "persona non-grata" at that judging centre; so, he didn't attend the judgings for some months after that incident. A short while later, he wrote me all excited that he'd been back to the judging again and he won 2 FCC's! One was for a Paph. micranthum and the other was for a Paph. armeniacum; both "all covered in moss on top". He was ecstatic! Unfortunately, he passed away while gardening in his back yard before he got to see his FCC's published in the AOS AQ.


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## John M (Mar 30, 2011)

Leo Schordje said:


> And a few months after he died, that particular besseae was exhibited by Fox Valley (who bought most of his collection) and it won the FCC, that is besseae 'Fox Valley' FCC/AOS, but it was exhibited either in St Louis or Chicago, not Ann Arbor. So Dick's plants won at least 3 FCC's.



I did not know that, Leo. I bought a division of the besseae in question from Dr. Clements; but, I never got to see it bloom. I had some cultural troubles with it and by the time it had recovered, my health took a nosedive. So, the plant took another turn for the worst and I killed it with neglect while I was sick. It was a very bitter pill for me to swallow and I still cringe when I think of what slipped through my fingers. Now, I know it was an FCC! *BIG sigh* Well, they say what doesn't kill you makes you stronger! Can't say I feel like Superman, though.


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## tomkalina (Mar 31, 2011)

Hi John,

Phrag. besseae 'Fox Valley' was awarded an FCC/AOS (91 pts) at the December, 1993 monthly judging in Chicago. It was originally part of the Clement's Collection.

Thanks,


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## Shiva (Mar 31, 2011)

John M said:


> I did not know that, Leo. I bought a division of the besseae in question from Dr. Clements; but, I never got to see it bloom. I had some cultural troubles with it and by the time it had recovered, my health took a nosedive. So, the plant took another turn for the worst and I killed it with neglect while I was sick.



John! If you ever get that sick again, send me your treasures. I'll take good care of them until you get better.


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## NYEric (Mar 31, 2011)

Me too!  Very interesting stories, thanx for sharing.


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## SlipperFan (Mar 31, 2011)

NYEric said:


> Me too!  Very interesting stories, thanx for sharing.



I agree!!!


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## John M (Mar 31, 2011)

tomkalina said:


> Hi John,
> 
> Phrag. besseae 'Fox Valley' was awarded an FCC/AOS (91 pts) at the December, 1993 monthly judging in Chicago. It was originally part of the Clement's Collection.
> 
> Thanks,



Hi Tom,

I'm not sure. Are you confirming or disputing something here?


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## tomkalina (Apr 1, 2011)

Hi John,

Neither. I was just stating a fact in support of Leo's statement regarding this clone's history and verifying the judging center's location.


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## John M (Apr 1, 2011)

tomkalina said:


> Hi John,
> 
> Neither. I was just stating a fact in support of Leo's statement regarding this clone's history and verifying the judging center's location.



Oh, right. I see now that Leo was uncertain where it won the FCC. I missed that detail. Well, had you exhibited it at Ann Arbour, it needed to be 100% perfect to even be considered for pointing. So, Yay Chicago! I googled it and found a nice photo. It sure is a handsome flower!


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## tenman (Apr 2, 2011)

Great flower...tha lines are tha 'antennae' of the bug!


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## SlipperKing (Apr 3, 2011)

RED HOT Dot!


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## Phrag-Plus (Apr 3, 2011)

Gorgeous flower! Nice form and colour. 
And those line make it very special, look like a butterfly with antennas. I like it!
When colour break or line are symmetrical on a flower, it is much more acceptable and interesting. 

Thanks John for bringing that interesting part of history!


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