# Bud watch; sandie



## SlipperKing (Nov 26, 2016)

Nice surprise when I got back from the slipper symposium. 






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## slippery (Nov 26, 2016)

anticipation...


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## tnyr5 (Nov 26, 2016)

Yay! Sandie! Yayyy (that's not gonna be enough pots) yayyyyyyy!!!


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## NYEric (Nov 26, 2016)

Exciting!


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## SlipperKing (Nov 26, 2016)

tnyr5 said:


> Yay! Sandie! Yayyy (that's not gonna be enough pots) yayyyyyyy!!!


I hope you are right!

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## Clark (Nov 26, 2016)

Looks like all systems go Houston.


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## Mark Karayannis (Nov 26, 2016)

Looks promising. Best of luck


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## SlipperKing (Nov 30, 2016)

A few days ago. Looks like 3 this blooming 





Tonight with more expansion 





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## My Green Pets (Nov 30, 2016)

Nice!


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## TDT (Dec 1, 2016)

It's wonderful to watch the flower buds develop and unfold! Thanks for the progression update.


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## blondie (Dec 1, 2016)

Looking very nice


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## SlipperFan (Dec 1, 2016)

:clap::clap::clap:


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## SlipperKing (Dec 2, 2016)

A bit more stretching 

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## mrhappyrotter (Dec 3, 2016)

Looking really good, and very exciting. I should really try to find some room for a sandy (or one of its hybrids) in my collection.


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## Migrant13 (Dec 3, 2016)

Very cool to see this unfolding. Thanks for posting.


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## bigleaf (Dec 3, 2016)

Very nice !


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## NYEric (Dec 5, 2016)

Believe it or not, I actually have a Sandi. I'm trying to see how many growths yours is so I can get an idea of blooming size.


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## tnyr5 (Dec 5, 2016)

I've seen them bloom on a single growth with a start, Eric.


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## Wendy (Dec 5, 2016)

I can't wait to see them in full bloom!!!


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## SlipperKing (Dec 6, 2016)

NYEric said:


> Believe it or not, I actually have a Sandi. I'm trying to see how many growths yours is so I can get an idea of blooming size.


I've bloomed 3 on single growths with no starts. This is 3-1-1, old, blooming and to bloom 

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## AdamD (Dec 6, 2016)

NYEric said:


> Believe it or not, I actually have a Sandi. I'm trying to see how many growths yours is so I can get an idea of blooming size.



you grow multis?


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## SlipperKing (Dec 7, 2016)

More elongation







I like the many folds of the petals before they fall





Early closeup





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## troy (Dec 7, 2016)

Nice sandy!!


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## My Green Pets (Dec 7, 2016)

Never gets old ! I like the folded up petals too.


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## Linus_Cello (Dec 7, 2016)

Nice shoulders. Will reflex later?


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## Wendy (Dec 7, 2016)

Drooooollllll....:clap:


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## SlipperFan (Dec 7, 2016)

I like the stance.


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## SlipperKing (Dec 7, 2016)

Linus_Cello said:


> Nice shoulders. Will reflex later?


Maybe so but not strongly so.

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## gego (Dec 8, 2016)

Exciting!!!!

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## blondie (Dec 8, 2016)

Very nice I do love sanderianum great plant to


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## SlipperKing (Dec 8, 2016)

Take note of the sugar dropets already forming on the pouch. Most noticable in the petal falling picture.


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## Linus_Cello (Dec 8, 2016)

SlipperKing said:


> Maybe so but not strongly so.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk



Thanks. Where'd you get the plant from?


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## Tom-DE (Dec 8, 2016)

Rick, I hate to mention this, I still don't think yours is a pure sanderianum(like many have been shown on internet). Especially if the origin is Thailand(perhaps elsewhere)-HI-mainland u.s.....I would not discuss this further and that is my personal opinion, nothing more....
Nice Paph any way.


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## Carper (Dec 8, 2016)

Just love the petal stance on pure sanderianum. Also some of the long petalled hybrids aswell. Will be interesting with it's full length.

Gary
UK


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## NYEric (Dec 8, 2016)

AdamD said:


> you grow multis?



Yes, I have tons! Mostly albino hybrids, Alex's Spots, Wild Thing, Mt. Toro, ...


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## SlipperKing (Dec 8, 2016)

Linus_Cello said:


> Thanks. Where'd you get the plant from?


I bought two multi growth plants from Quintal Farms as did many others. I serious doubt this is anything but the real McCoy. My friend Jay also has two that he hand pick from their benches. They have bloomed like this, some darker, some lighter.

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## Ozpaph (Dec 9, 2016)

Rick, its lovely.


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## paphioboy (Dec 9, 2016)

Gorgeous! Looks like sandie to me..


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## paworsport (Dec 9, 2016)

Impressive flowers and plant 
Mine is opening with trouver big buds


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## SlipperKing (Dec 9, 2016)

Tom-DE what clues are you seeing that suggest this is something other than pure sanderianum?
I've bloomed 5 different clones from 4 different sources over the years, 3 I still have. One plant I lost was from our own STer, Leo, his F1 plants were from known jungle collected material he had access to. For the life of me, I cannot see any remarkable differences that suggest hybrid.


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## Tom-DE (Dec 9, 2016)

Rick, as long as you are happy with it, that is all matters then. Your flower(shoulder form and petal length) and growths are a bit off from the real thing I have seen or known. Real sanderianum has nearly veinless, soft shinny/glossy leaves. Have I bought and bloomed a faked "sanderianum"? Yes! It was "Jacob's Ladder"Xself from a long time CA grower over a decade ago. It was a nice hybrid but not what I paid (a good sum of money)for. 

Is yours a new breed of sanderianum? If so, I would not bet on it. There are rumors on the street, so buyer be warned! Some people may agree with me, it may be a back crossed hybrids...like I said, as long as you are happy with it, then it is all good.


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## bigleaf (Dec 9, 2016)

Tom-DE said:


> Real sanderianum has nearly veinless, soft shinny/glossy leaves.



By vein do you mean stripes on the petals?


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## Ozpaph (Dec 9, 2016)

Tom, does that apply to both highland and lowland forms? Or hybrids between the two forms?


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## Tom-DE (Dec 9, 2016)

Peter, I was talking about the vein(white stripes) on the leaves.

ozpaph, to me, this one and some on internet posts look more like a first generation sanderianum hybrids back-crossed to sanderianum, so 75% of the blood/DNA will be sanderianum. The advantage of such cross is faster growing and bigger shoulder (perhaps rothschildianum in the blood....), well, some good clones of first generation hybrids even look as good as those "sanderianum"...and that is my opinion and few others I have been talking to.

Agree or disagree, personally I just prefer the old classic form of sanderianum, smaller shoulder but with the super long twisting petals.


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## Ozpaph (Dec 10, 2016)

thank-you


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## SlipperKing (Dec 12, 2016)

Here it is in March 2015 with 4 flowers.


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## emydura (Dec 12, 2016)

Rick - that is the same plant as the one in flower now? That definitely looks like sanderianum to my eyes.


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## Justin (Dec 13, 2016)

Ricks plant looks like sand to me but i agree some of the flower pics of newer plants out of asia appear to be hybrid backcrosses with the sanderianum name.


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## SlipperKing (Dec 13, 2016)

Yes it is indeed the same plant. I think its well documented environment factors play a major rule in the outcome of any flowering plant. December in Houston is the beginning of our coldest time of the year where in March people are starting to hit the beach. So, first blooming started in the cold and moved towards the warm. This time flipped, started out warm and ending in the cold. The lighting is totally different, watering schedule flipped around, on and on...


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## Wendy (Dec 13, 2016)

Absolutely gorgeous and pure sandie to me too. :clap:


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## eggshells (Dec 13, 2016)

Looks like sanderianum to me as well. Great job. Hard to find multigrowth plants like that.


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## SlipperKing (Dec 14, 2016)

Looking better everyday





The sugar glands are working overtime on this winter blooming!





I have never seen this much moisture on a sandie's pouch nor any it's hybrids. All three pouches are ringing wet!

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## JAB (Dec 15, 2016)

Nice! 
So who is considered the most reputable sandie breeder?


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## Ozpaph (Dec 15, 2016)

JAB said:


> Nice!
> So who is considered the most reputable sandie breeder?



I think Sam Tsui at Orchid Inn


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## troy (Dec 15, 2016)

Sugar sweat, draws ants, the pollinater, I'm finding my dendrobiums and cattyleas also produce it


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## JAB (Dec 15, 2016)

Oz
Sam is the man, and thus far has some of the best orchids I have ever ordered.


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## troy (Dec 15, 2016)

Jab, I second that!!!


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## SlipperKing (Dec 16, 2016)

I don't know anything about ants, drawn to or pollinating of sanderianum. I never have heard what pollinate sandies but I suspect it would be a bee or fly specie drawn to the scent of the sugar. Theory the petals act as a guide for such a pollinator is a possibility. Flies/bees do circle /hover/circle and they could follow the petals up to the pouch.

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## JAB (Dec 16, 2016)

Hell hasth frozen over... Troy and I agree on something


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## gonewild (Dec 16, 2016)

SlipperKing said:


> I don't know anything about ants, drawn to or pollinating of sanderianum. I never have heard what pollinate sandies but I suspect it would be a bee or fly specie drawn to the scent of the sugar. Theory the petals act as a guide for such a pollinator is a possibility. Flies/bees do circle /hover/circle and they could follow the petals up to the pouch.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk




Or the long petals act as a bridge pathway for "walkers".


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## troy (Dec 16, 2016)

Ants pollinate sanderianum


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## emydura (Dec 16, 2016)

troy said:


> Ants pollinate sanderianum



I believe the flowers are pollinated by hover flies. Ants make no sense as the petals hang over cliffs so ants would have no access to the petals.


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## troy (Dec 16, 2016)

Sandys grow on sarawak islands and one of the pollinaterd are ants, right lance, for anyone to say thats not true, would send the gentleman that told me the pollinators into a laughing frenzy, beiing he wrote some of the literature that says that, he has been there, to the sarawak islands, I thought that everybody knew the pollinaters of sandy are ants, just a known thing, guess not


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## gonewild (Dec 16, 2016)

emydura said:


> I believe the flowers are pollinated by hover flies. Ants make no sense as the petals hang over cliffs so ants would have no access to the petals.



Actually the long petals would give access to ants. The wind would blow the petals back toward the cliff and are long enough to reach the rock or other plants where ants may be. The sugars on the petals could cause the ants to follow up to the pollination zone. Don't forget that in the tropics ants can be very large and easily could transport pollen.

I'm not saying ants are the pollinators but the petals do give access to ants.
There is published research on sanderianum but I have no clue what it says.


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## JAB (Dec 17, 2016)

I stand to be corrected, but I don't think there is anything published on sanderianum pollinators. One would think the petals facilitate some critter crawling up, but my conversations with Prof. Braem he has stated that this has never been documented, and made the point that the petals do not always reach the ground/touch anything. That would completely negate pollination. Good point Lance re: the wind blowing the petals towards a surface though. 

If there is a paper(s) out there please share as I would love to read it. 

Cheers
Jake


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## gonewild (Dec 17, 2016)

JAB said:


> If there is a paper(s) out there please share as I would love to read it.
> 
> Cheers
> Jake



Look for this:

"The unique pollination mechanisms of Paphiopedilum sanderianum (Rchb. f) Stein [1990]
Kramer, R.D."


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## emydura (Dec 17, 2016)

gonewild said:


> Look for this:
> 
> "The unique pollination mechanisms of Paphiopedilum sanderianum (Rchb. f) Stein [1990]
> Kramer, R.D."



Have you read this Lance?

This recent article on Slipper Orchid pollinators doesn't mention ants at all as pollinators. Bees and flies are the pollinators of the 42 species of slipper orchids mentioned. Hover flies pollinated all but one of the Paphiopedilum species. Sanderianum isn't mentioned though as I'm not sure this has been determined. The hypothesis I have read has been that the long petals glimmer in the sunlight thereby attracting the hover flies. Interestingly Phrag caudatum which by convergent evolution have similar length petals to sanderianum are pollinated by hover flies. The article also says that the hover flies are attracted to the honey dew. 

Given all slipper orchid species documented so far are pollinated by either flies or bees I'm not sure why sanderianum would be any different.

http://www.lankesteriana.org/Lankes..._Pemberton_pollination_of_slipper_orchids.pdf


Troy says 'everyone knows that sanderianum is pollinated by ants'. I couldn't find anything supporting this but then I didn't look hard. Maybe you can point some literature out to me Troy. As a general rule ants haven't been found to be significant pollinators of flowers. In fact secretions from glands on ant bodies of some ant species generally reduce pollen viability. Ants are also unspecialised insects that cannot fly or travel large distances. They don't seem to be suitable pollinators of sanderianum at all. So an ant climbs up those long petals, climbs into the flower and then gets some pollen on their backs. How do they then get to the flower 15 metres away down the cliff? It doesn't seem like an efficient pollinating strategy. If there is one species of Paph that would require a flying pollinator it would be sanderianum. 

From the paper above it is pretty clear there is a specialised evolved relationship between the pollinator and the slipper orchid species. I believe the pollinator of sanderianum would have to be far more specialised than an ant. But I'm happy to be corrected on this. 

http://www.ableweb.org/volumes/vol-22/12-puterbaugh.pdf


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## SlipperKing (Dec 17, 2016)

I too have to agree, no way under God's green acres are ants the pollinators. If this was the case, these plants would be covered with ants all the time. As in nests around the root system, crawling all through the leaves, up the flower stems. They wouldn't need long petaled latters.
I've also seen sugar crystals form on my philippinese flowers and there is no mention of ants associated with these plants either.

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## troy (Dec 17, 2016)

Everybody is entitled to beleive and defend what they beleive with blood is what we do as humans, I was told ants by a gentelman that I respect, he is no longer with us, so I'm going to beleive that, it's likely there are multiple pollinaters


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## gonewild (Dec 17, 2016)

No I have not read the article. I could not find a download link. I referenced it based on the title that suggests that it is about sanderianum pollination. Based on the title one would assume that sanderianum has an unusual and different method of being pollinated.

I dont know what sandi pollinators are. I only commented that the petals can in fact make an easy access for ants. I have read that certain orchids have spots that mimic aphids on their petals to attract ants as pollinators so long ladder like petals could make sense in that regard. Also there is at least one species of Paph that self pollinates by liquidfication of the pollen and does not use insects for fertilization. So now new observations are showing that Hoverflies may be an obvious visitor but may not be the pollinator after all.
Just making possible suggestions as to how ants may pollinate by simply walking over liquified pollen and transporting in on their feet. Maybe Troy can share published facts to reinforce his statements, he may be correct.


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## troy (Dec 17, 2016)

Howard gunn told me, he went over and saw it in the sarawak islands, I'll ask joan gunn his wife for written info


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## gonewild (Dec 17, 2016)

In reference to the similarities between Paph sanderianium and Phrag caudatum and the similar long petals. I have not had the pleasure to see sanderianum growing in the wild but I have seen a lot of caudatums. Sometimes caudatum actually grow hanging on vertical cliffs but the vast majority grow in association with tall grass and other plants. Their petals easily get mixed between blades of grass to such an extent it is not easy to photograph the flowers. And the roots are very often infested with ants (they bite if you mess in the roots). In the tropics there are ants everywhere and thousands of species of ants. There are ant species that have only a few individuals in small colonies and no one knows what they do or don't do. So lack of data of ants living in association with sanderianum is not an indication that ants are not pollinators.

I does seem like long hanging petals are an extreme amount of growth (wasted energy) if the intent is to attract a Hoverfly from above. And it does seem like long petals are very well designed to be ladders, especially the spiral staircase ones. :wink: 
(are Hoverflies attracted to the nectar drops? Ants are for sure).
(interesting thread hijack)


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## troy (Dec 17, 2016)

If I was a plant, I would employ ants as a bodyguard haha... sorry rick, if this goes further, I or somebody else will start a new thread, very beautiful plant you have whether it's pure or not


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## gonewild (Dec 17, 2016)

Technically we are still "bud watching". Just waiting to see what pollinates the flower. oke:
If we keep watching we will probably observe that the main pollinators of sanderianum are humans now, evolution in progress. In order to get pollinated by a human the plant needs to have longer petals than it's siblings. 

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00606-005-0391-8
Basically this link proves that ants can and do pollinate orchids that were believed to be dependent on hoverflies.


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## JAB (Dec 17, 2016)

Thanks for the link Lance. I am trying to find that paper, but am running into walls. Will ask on FB.
I don't dispute the theories posed, but a theory is just a theory until proven (or disproven). Unfortunately (or fortunately) in our society without published, scrutinized data based on scientific evidence, our theories are only as good as the interweb pages we type on. 
It makes sense like Troy and Lance stated that SOMETHING would be crawling up the petals, otherwise why do to all that effort. That said... nature is far wiser than any of us, it is up to us to discover the truth. Mother nature is indifferent if we understand her ways 

Great topic guys!


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## Clark (Dec 17, 2016)

Ants do not need petals to get to the flower.


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## gonewild (Dec 17, 2016)

JAB said:


> Thanks for the link Lance. I am trying to find that paper, but am running into walls. Will ask on FB.
> I don't dispute the theories posed, but a theory is just a theory until proven (or disproven). Unfortunately (or fortunately) in our society without published, scrutinized data based on scientific evidence, our theories are only as good as the interweb pages we type on.
> It makes sense like Troy and Lance stated that SOMETHING would be crawling up the petals, otherwise why do to all that effort. That said... nature is far wiser than any of us, it is up to us to discover the truth. Mother nature is indifferent if we understand her ways
> 
> Great topic guys!



All theories is correct. 
It will be interesting if Troy can find something written by Howard Gunn.
I assume it is only theory that hoverflies are the sanderianum pollinators as well. To discount Troys ant pollinator claim one needs to offer proof he is wrong. Of course there will be no published proof that ants aren't. :rollhappy:


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## gonewild (Dec 17, 2016)

Clark said:


> Ants do not need petals to get to the flower.



No, but 8 petals hanging down to the ants gives the plants an 800% better chance than the flower stem alone.
And the petals may have a short range scent on them that invite the ants to climb.


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## emydura (Dec 17, 2016)

gonewild said:


> I does seem like long hanging petals are an extreme amount of growth (wasted energy) if the intent is to attract a Hoverfly from above. And it does seem like long petals are very well designed to be ladders, especially the spiral staircase ones. :wink:
> (are Hoverflies attracted to the nectar drops? Ants are for sure).
> (interesting thread hijack)




This paper discusses hoverflies attraction to the nectar drops at the bottom of page 68. It also talks about the Paphs flowers mimicking aphid colonies to attract the hover flies. 

Given this paper reviews all the published literature on slipper orchid pollination (in 2013), it is interesting as to why that paper you mentioned on sanderianum is not included (given that paper was published in 1994). There may not be much in it.

http://www.lankesteriana.org/Lankes..._Pemberton_pollination_of_slipper_orchids.pdf

The difference between sanderianum and other Paphs is there flowers hang over cliffs and hence can be seen from a distance. Other Paphs are more on the bottom floor hidden by trees, shrubs, rocks etc. So sanderianum would benefit from flowers that have a real visual cue. Petals that shimmer in the light would draw hover flies in and lead them up to the flower. They would be drawn up by the shimmering ladder. It doesn't appeared to have been proved yet but that is my hypothesis.


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## gonewild (Dec 17, 2016)

emydura said:


> The difference between sanderianum and other Paphs is there flowers hang over cliffs and hence can be seen from a distance. Other Paphs are more on the bottom floor hidden by trees, shrubs, rocks etc. So sanderianum would benefit from flowers that have a real visual cue. Petals that shimmer in the light would draw hover flies in and lead them up to the flower. They would be drawn up by the shimmering ladder. It doesn't appeared to have been proved yet but that is my hypothesis.



And that makes perfect sense to me also. However it does not preclude ants from also being pollinators. Need to find that missing paper on sanderianum to learn what the authors thought was unique.


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## SlipperKing (Dec 17, 2016)

As great as this discussion has gone, unfortunately I must inject another couple of PICs


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## gonewild (Dec 17, 2016)

Very nice images or very nice flowers!
I wonder what the long petals are for?


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## Linus_Cello (Dec 17, 2016)

As I said earlier, really nice shoulders


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## emydura (Dec 17, 2016)

Absolutely incredible Rick. I wish I could see it in person. Fantastic plant too. Looks like you will be seeing flowers regularly from now on.

I could see why Tom was questioning it early on, but once the flowers have fully developed it just looks like a typical sanderianum to my eyes. 

What did the petal length end up at?


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## JAB (Dec 18, 2016)

WOWSERS!!! 
Any cultural tips? Mine is looking strong, but not much happening. I suppose patience is the key.


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## My Green Pets (Dec 18, 2016)

Damn you and your beautiful Sandie


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## Ozpaph (Dec 18, 2016)

that is super!


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## SlipperKing (Dec 18, 2016)

emydura said:


> Absolutely incredible Rick. I wish I could see it in person. Fantastic plant too. Looks like you will be seeing flowers regularly from now on.
> 
> I could see why Tom was questioning it early on, but once the flowers have fully developed it just looks like a typical sanderianum to my eyes.
> 
> What did the petal length end up at?


The petal length is right at 21 inches shorter then the first blooming. I didn't record the length on the tag but it seems they were in the mid 20's
Culture: keep them damp at all times. Here is a seedling from 12/2008 and I dunk it often




The blooming plant is in a 5 inch aircone, large size bark,sponge rock and charcoal with NZ moss scattered throughout the pot and a 1/2 inch layer on top; it doesn't dry out.

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## Ozpaph (Dec 18, 2016)

focus.........


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## Clark (Dec 19, 2016)

The photography was great until post 88.

I did not know they could take so much water.
Great plant.


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## SlipperKing (Dec 19, 2016)

Clark said:


> The photography was great until post 88.
> 
> I did not know they could take so much water.
> Great plant.



Yeah I agree, cell phone PICs don't alway come out the way you want them too. I'll have to try to re-size it and flip it 90 degrees. Its kind of a ***** to focus on closeups too.


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## Clark (Dec 19, 2016)

Are you gonna get the toothpicks and get busy with pollen?

My phone has same issues.


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## troy (Dec 19, 2016)

It's not awarded beceause it's not flat and round,I recommend breeding it with a bulldog, back cross to bulldog 15 - 20 times you will get an award


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## Tom-DE (Dec 19, 2016)

Even with more photos and info, I still think it is a good hybrid, Rick. It is just as good as mkxsand. Good luck with the future breeding.


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## Spaph (Dec 20, 2016)

Late to the post, WOW, what a blooming! So cool.


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## JAB (Jan 10, 2017)

So I made it down to the Elizabeth Miller Horticulture Library last night prior to our meeting and looked up "The unique pollination mechanisms of Paphiopedilum sanderianum (Rchb. f) Stein [1990]
Kramer, R.D."


Epic over searching for nothing... essentially in the article he hypothesizes that the long petals of sanderianum are for ants to access, but he has noted zero observations of such an act. He also theorizes that ants or flies are attracted to the nectar she produces, but again no observations nor proof. 
"Expectation is premeditated disappointment." - Sogyal Rinpoche

We need some one to go sit in the jungle of Borneo and just watch a sandie day in, day out. Volunteers??

Cheers
JAB


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## SlipperKing (Jan 10, 2017)

I'm in! Now to setup a web page to collect donations for funding the trip:ninja:


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## emydura (Jan 10, 2017)

JAB said:


> So I made it down to the Elizabeth Miller Horticulture Library last night prior to our meeting and looked up "The unique pollination mechanisms of Paphiopedilum sanderianum (Rchb. f) Stein [1990]
> Kramer, R.D."
> 
> 
> ...



That is absolutely bizarre. He wrote a whole paper on the unique pollination mechanisms of sanderianum without a shred of evidence? It was nothing but an untested hypothesis? Now I know why this paper wasn't included in the paper on slipper orchid pollinators. 

Thanks for your efforts.

Happy to assist Rick in some field observations on sanderianum.


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## cnycharles (Jan 11, 2017)

Sadly many scientific things nowadays get passed and then found out facts were fudged. Great flowers! Could set up a small trail cam tightly zoomed and just record specific movement


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## Rick (Jan 15, 2017)

JAB said:


> We need some one to go sit in the jungle of Borneo and just watch a sandie day in, day out. Volunteers??
> 
> Cheers
> JAB



One thing that's been used so that you don't have to literally sit there for days on end is applying a little of that glue from mouse/rat sticky traps to a group of flowers.

If you put it in strategic areas of the flower you can focus on collection of the insects that actually acquire pollen and then you can tell which insects are there to mooch food and which are actually pollinating the flower.

I did this for a Bulbophylum blumei that was attracting some small flies to it when I set it out of my GH during cleaning. The flies that got stuck in the glue were all a single species of phorid fly. Now Tennessee, USA is not the natural habitat of B. blumei, but I think its pretty wild that these flies were attracted to the blumei flowers and actually were able to acquire pollen.

BTW I can never smell anything from these flowers so not sure what even attracts the flies to this flower.


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## cnycharles (Jan 15, 2017)

Lots of bees see patterns of reflected UV light that yell 'here I am'. Similar things might work for other insects/orchids


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## Rick (Jan 15, 2017)

cnycharles said:


> Lots of bees see patterns of reflected UV light that yell 'here I am'. Similar things might work for other insects/orchids


Yup and just because I can't smell anything doesn't mean the flower is not emitting a fragrance / pheromone that means something fairly universally for groups of insects.

The phorid fly angle for orchids (especially species with tiny targets) is interesting since there are thousands of species of phoridae that deal with everything from rotting vegetation to parasitizing ants. You should check out the life history on the Decapitator fly (a species of Phorid that parasitizes
fire ants!!)


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## JAB (Jan 15, 2017)

Good call Rick! 

To be fair it was not a 'scientific' paper, it was just an article in OD. 
Prof Braem just did his 2nd edition of the Paph complex and even he has no clue why they have such long petals. 
I guess it will remain a PHD waiting to happen!


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