# paph hangianum x sanderianum



## troy (Nov 20, 2015)

Does this exist?


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## trdyl (Nov 20, 2015)

Not seeing it in OrchidWiz. Have you checked the RHS database?


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## troy (Nov 20, 2015)

The rhs data base can find whatever only with a correct clonal name aaarrgghhh


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## John M (Nov 21, 2015)

Post a photo, Troy.


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## troy (Nov 21, 2015)

I wish I could!!!


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## John M (Nov 21, 2015)

Okay. Maybe I should be a bit more direct. Since you haven't posted a photo, how about posting your question in the "*Breeding & Production"* thread. That's where we _"Discuss breeding trends, flasking and seedling culture"_.

This is the Paph. *PHOTOGRAPHY* sub-forum. You're question is an interesting one. It might spark an interesting discussion; but, if it's hidden in the photo section, it'll be of no use whatsoever to ST members in the future as reference material because they won't be able to find it.


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## troy (Nov 21, 2015)

Ok


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## consettbay2003 (Nov 21, 2015)

troy said:


> The rhs data base can find whatever only with a correct clonal name aaarrgghhh



The RHS data base doesn't deal with clonal names. This cross has never been registered with the RHS.


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## troy (Nov 21, 2015)

Maybe I'm wrong about the clonal name on the rhs, I tried using it a few years back and it was very difficult, maybe this cross hasn't been made due to the length of time from seedling to bloom?????


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## trdyl (Nov 21, 2015)

troy said:


> The rhs data base can find whatever only with a correct clonal name aaarrgghhh



That is incorrect. They can be looked up by parentage. Full names do not to be entered partials are fine, but to closer you are to the full name the narrower your rusults will be. Here is a link to the page I use.

http://apps.rhs.org.uk/horticulturaldatabase/orchidregister/orchidregister.asp

By the way, the cross seems to be unnamed at the moment.


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## troy (Nov 21, 2015)

Thanks!!!


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## spujr (Nov 21, 2015)

That would be a cross to make for a young person. That way they could still see it flower before they die.


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## tnyr5 (Nov 21, 2015)

spujr said:


> That would be a cross to make for a young person. That way they could still see it flower before they die.



And then promptly throw it in the trash :rollhappy::rollhappy::rollhappy:


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## emydura (Nov 21, 2015)

tnyr5 said:


> And then promptly throw it in the trash :rollhappy::rollhappy::rollhappy:



Yes, I can't imagine anything good coming out of this cross, but stranger things have happened.


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## troy (Nov 21, 2015)

There seems to be some alexj on here for sale everybody likes those roth x hangianum why not sandy x hangianum. Hangianum big flower passes alot of color to crosses mixed with sandy long petal??????


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## SlipperFan (Nov 21, 2015)

Ted is correct -- the RHS will show only plants that have been registered with them. This cross is not registered, so if it has been made, the maker hasn't registered it yet.


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## Stone (Nov 22, 2015)

troy said:


> Does this exist?



Sure! It looks something like this:


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## emydura (Nov 22, 2015)

troy said:


> There seems to be some alexj on here for sale everybody likes those roth x hangianum why not sandy x hangianum. Hangianum big flower passes alot of color to crosses mixed with sandy long petal??????



Because rothschildianum is pure perfection. You cross it with anything and you get a great outcome. Other then the long petals, sanderianum is a dog of a flower - narrow dorsal, terrible shoulders in the petals, poor pouch etc. Given the full shape of hangianum, I'm not sure adding long petals is going to improve the flower, especially given all the other floors in sanderianum.


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## consettbay2003 (Nov 22, 2015)

emydura said:


> Because rothschildianum is pure perfection. You cross it with anything and you get a great outcome. Other then the long petals, sanderianum is a dog of a flower - narrow dorsal, terrible shoulders in the petals, poor pouch etc. Given the full shape of hangianum, I'm not sure adding long petals is going to improve the flower, especially given all the other floors in sanderianum.



I totally agree that sanderianum itself is a dog of a flower.


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## troy (Nov 22, 2015)

Everybody has a personal prefrance, rothschildianum is a full flower, true, nonetheless, I really like sanderianums, and I think a symmetrical flower of the cross would look excellent, although crossing multis and parvis are a crapshoot


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## Linus_Cello (Nov 22, 2015)

Maybe st within x hangianum with longer sepals?
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18104


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## labskaus (Nov 22, 2015)

I am afraid it might be like Woessner Bellsand (Check Google), a Cross I have Seen and don't want to See again.


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## troy (Nov 22, 2015)

I think to say that every, paph "waluwense" sucks because there were a few bad ones, flowers are a natural thing, they are all not going to be alike and not everybody is a multi lover, or a brachypetalum lover, or a paph lover, some people might even say why grow a paph they are inferior to the 39,000 other paph species, growing orchids is subject to personal prefrance


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## Linus_Cello (Nov 23, 2015)

Maybe if it got backcrossed on to sanderianum, the flower could be very nice with longer sepals. Why haven't we seen more backcrossing on to sanderianum such as Lisa Hasegawa (delrosi x sand) x sand?


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## NYEric (Nov 23, 2015)

emydura said:


> Because rothschildianum is pure perfection.



What new drugs do they have in Aus!?


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## Justin (Nov 23, 2015)

sandy is a neat flower but lousy hybridizer. With some exceptions most anything you hybridize with it will have washed out color and crappy form.


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## NYEric (Nov 23, 2015)

Long petals, yes it will make dog-earred hybrids but as a species it's the new King!!!


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## Wendy (Nov 23, 2015)

John M said:


> Okay. Maybe I should be a bit more direct. Since you haven't posted a photo, how about posting your question in the "*Breeding & Production"* thread. That's where we _"Discuss breeding trends, flasking and seedling culture"_.
> 
> This is the Paph. *PHOTOGRAPHY* sub-forum. You're question is an interesting one. It might spark an interesting discussion; but, if it's hidden in the photo section, it'll be of no use whatsoever to ST members in the future as reference material because they won't be able to find it.



Still wrong place...


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## SlipperFan (Nov 23, 2015)

OK -- I'll move it...


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## spujr (Nov 23, 2015)

Linus_Cello said:


> Maybe if it got backcrossed on to sanderianum, the flower could be very nice with longer sepals. Why haven't we seen more backcrossing on to sanderianum such as Lisa Hasegawa (delrosi x sand) x sand?



I've been thinking the same thing but to answer your question I think it is partly a matter of time. Plus it would most likely take a couple of backcrosses (BC2-3) before you are approaching similar petal lengths as the species. And obviously, orchid traits don't segregate as nicely as yellow and green peas. Probably a lot of epistatic gene interactions.

I've been thinking similar along the lines of roth x kolo. Go for the roth flower color and shape but keep kolo sizes and vigor.


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## troy (Nov 23, 2015)

I'll prove everybody wrong, sanderianum makes great hybrids!!!!


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## Tom-DE (Nov 24, 2015)

I am not sure about s X h, but sanderianum has made some great hybrids so far and it is a great species to have in any Paph. collection IMO. Many photos on internet don't do the justice........regardless how you or I feel about sanderianum and its hybrids, it is a matter of personal preference. 
What I don't like about sanderianum and majority of its first generation hybrids is the plant size, and slowly maturing doesn't help either....and all that goes with roths also.


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## Chicago Chad (Nov 24, 2015)

nice to see you still lurking Tom!!!!


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## troy (Nov 24, 2015)

Some of the sandy hybrids are large, I have a 3 growth screaming eagle x sandy with a 40 inch leafspan on the oldest growth, and a kolosand x pey with a 38 inch leafspan, they are both going to bloom, I'll prove these sandy haters that there are good hybrids with sandy hahaha


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## emydura (Nov 24, 2015)

I don't think anyone is saying that sanderianum should not be used for hybridising. Primary hybrids such as Michael Koopowitz or PEOY are very nice. Hopefully more complex hybrids will be even better when you retain the petal length but not all the floors of sanderianum. But sanderianum's best use is within the coryopedilum group. When you cross it with other groups, the results are pretty disappointing (as to be expected).

What are you hoping for from a cross between hangianum x sanderianum? You won't get 30 cm chunky petals.


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## troy (Nov 25, 2015)

With a hangianum x sandy hybrid I'd like to see a very large commanding bloom thats dark colored with thick medium length petals, but it would have to be back crossed maybe twice with the same parent, although both lateral sepals are kind of narrow, anyhow, I'd like to see a good shape bloom of this cross, just my own personal prefrance


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