# Fluence SPYDRx LED grow light



## naoki (Feb 7, 2016)

I noticed that Fluence Bioengineering's web site is finally up (they have announced their products 2 months ago), and they seem to be shipping them.
https://www.fluence.science
It is the same company as Build My LED, whose LED grow light was tested as one of the most efficient LEDs by several independent sources. They pushed the efficiency limit quite a bit and came up with new models SPYDRx is probably more interesting to indoor growers, and VYPRx is more targeted for greenhouse (tall ceiling). SPYDRx is $900 for 345W (but wattage isn't a good criteria because the efficiency is so variable among LEDs). It is not so difficult to calculate how much you'll save (or not save) in a long term.

These LED grow lights are finally more efficient (2.1 micromol/J) than the most efficient HPS (around 1.8 micomol/J). Most commercial LEDs are less efficient than HPS. I think that this is the highest efficiency of any commercial grow light unless you make DIY Cree CXB3070 or CXB3590 class COB (with DIY, I achieve the same efficiency at 1/2 to 1/3 of the cost).

It is interesting that they have moved to white+red LEDs (instead of blue+red). This is partly due to the quicker advance in white LED than monochromes (most DIY people have migrated to white for a long time).

This sounds like an advertisement, but as always, I don't have any connection to the company. Just a small heads-up so people can choose how to spend their money (and energy) wisely!


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## JAB (Feb 7, 2016)

Excellent find. Have you tried them personally? Still on the high end of LED price wise but I am sure that will drop in the next year or so. I like the design and they state you should have it no more then 6" above the canopy! Not much of a footprint I assume then? 

Really like the info you share Naoki. Thank you.


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## MorandiWine (Feb 7, 2016)

You get what you pay for with LED's Jab. Quality chips cost money and when a company uses first and second bin chips from a quality run, well you get quality. There are certainly inexpensive LED's running around and they "work" but far from efficient and will likely end up having issues later on. 

Just a note on what I have discovered using COB chips, they tend to create hot spots if you are not careful with spacing and canopy heights. 

I have been using Apache Tech LED lights with great success. And just made a seedling rack using their tubes. 






Tyler


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ray (Feb 8, 2016)

I am using two of the 4' Philips Greenpower Production Strips (23W, 50µmol, Deep Red/Blue) in a 3' x 6' enclosure in my basement, and everything in it is doing very well. They're about $150 each.

When I move, and likely will no longer have a greenhouse, I'll probably go with the white/deep red/far red versions in the house.


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## NYEric (Feb 8, 2016)

Did you say $900 for lights!? 
That's 6 flasks of stonei album!


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## troy (Feb 8, 2016)

I agree eric, my t-5s & 8s work. for $35.00 for 4" fixture with full color spectrum bulbs


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## naoki (Feb 9, 2016)

JAB, I'm happy with my DIY LEDs, so I haven't bought a commercial grow light for a while. You can't place this thing close to orchids, it is way too much light. I haven't checked the beam pattern, but you'll need fair amount of space between the light and orchids. For example, mine with the similar efficiency can cover 4x4' area with 200W or so (at Paph level).



MorandiWine said:


> You get what you pay for with LED's Jab. Quality chips cost money and when a company uses first and second bin chips from a quality run, well you get quality. There are certainly inexpensive LED's running around and they "work" but far from efficient and will likely end up having issues later on.
> 
> Just a note on what I have discovered using COB chips, they tend to create hot spots if you are not careful with spacing and canopy heights.
> 
> I have been using Apache Tech LED lights with great success. And just made a seedling rack using their tubes.



I agree with Tyler. In addition to bins, there is an avoidable trade-off of efficiency vs total output in LED fixture design. You need to use lots of emitters at low wattage for each to achieve high efficiency. So to get enough total output with high efficiency, it costs a lot for the manufacturer. Most company goes toward total output with cheaper parts cost, and sacrifice the efficiency. It is a matter of whether you pay now or you pay more later. Some people have lots of debt, and waste money on paying credit card interests. One problem is that some companies charge lots of money for low quality stuff, and try to cover up with marketing and hypes.

Is this the T8 LED you are using?
http://www.apachetechinc.com/24-led-tube.html
That is seriously expensive. I couldn't find the number, though.

I was worried about the unevenness of DIY COB before I started to use them, but it is better than I expected. This is probably partly due to the fact that I use them inside of the reflective grow tent (without reflectors and lens). 4x CXA3070/Vero 29 (50W ea) spaced evenly (about 2.5' apart in the square formation) to cover 4x4' grow tent. I do have to hang it fairly high, though. I have a fixture of proven efficiency champion, CXB3590 x 4, but I haven't hang them yet. This could be a little bit too much for 4x4' area, so I probably need to dim-down. They do have the issue of point source (lower leaves get shadowed). Is this what you mean?



Ray said:


> I am using two of the 4' Philips Greenpower Production Strips (23W, 50µmol, Deep Red/Blue) in a 3' x 6' enclosure in my basement, and everything in it is doing very well. They're about $150 each.
> 
> When I move, and likely will no longer have a greenhouse, I'll probably go with the white/deep red/far red versions in the house.



It looks like Philips greenPower released newer models which you are talking about. Thank you for bring this up, I didn't know about their updated version! It seems to be the same efficiency, 2.17 micomol/J, which is impressive, and the white red version also has high efficiency 2.08 micomol/J. It is nice that it comes in a 120cm strip (similar form factor as 4' fluorescent). So it is more appropriate for Paphs than the intense/condensed fluence SPYDRx. It would be nicer if Fluence would sell individual bars (like they did with BML). 

I think this is the product Ray is referring to:
http://images.philips.com/is/conten...001-UPD-en_AA-CL-LED-production-module-EN.pdf



NYEric said:


> Did you say $900 for lights!?
> That's 6 flasks of stonei album!



You can grow orchids indoor really well without (or with small amount of supplemental) artificial light, which is quite amazing! Natural light is cheaper for sure. But for us, who require artificial light (we are getting brighter, but in the winter, we get 3 hours of dim light), we pay lots for electricity.

For example, this new LED (2.15 micomol/J) is 2.56x more efficient than fluorescent light (0.84 micro mol/J). So to get the equivalent amount of light, you need 883W (about 16 tubes of 54W T5HO) vs 345W of SPYDRx. So you spend 538 W extra energy. With $0.17/kWh (I think this is the rate in NY, which is at the high end), you would be paying $712 per year with fluorescent vs $278 for SPYDRx. So every year you are paying extra $434 with fluorescent light. So within 2 years, you end up paying less with SPYDRx. With DIY COB, the payoff period is 1 year or less.

Here is a related topic of economical analysis of artificial light:
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0099010



troy said:


> I agree eric, my t-5s & 8s work. for $35.00 for 4" fixture with full color spectrum bulbs



I agree T8 and T5 works perfectly, and cheap initially, but not in a long term.


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## naoki (Feb 9, 2016)

Ray said:


> When I move, and likely will no longer have a greenhouse, I'll probably go with the white/deep red/far red versions in the house.



When are you moving, Ray? You are not retiring from FirstRays, are you?


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## MorandiWine (Feb 9, 2016)

Thanks for all your insight Naoki!

Yes that is the light I am using on my seedlings. After trying a few different brands (testing PAR and energy needs) I landed on the Apache tubes and could not be happier. I am one of those growers that replaces all lights once a year to try and lessen the peaks and valleys in quality of light. That being said, my ROI with using LEDs is quite good at just over 18 months. 

Orchids are definitely unique in the plant world especially Paphs and for the most part Phrags because they like lower light levels and that plays well with using a system like yours in your 4x4 tent. Sounds like a fantastic grow area! Can you post some photographs?

Thanks
Tyler


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NYEric (Feb 9, 2016)

naoki said:


> You can grow orchids indoor really well without (or with small amount of supplemental) artificial light, which is quite amazing! Natural light is cheaper for sure. But for us, who require artificial light (we are getting brighter, but in the winter, we get 3 hours of dim light), we pay lots for electricity.



Thanks for the compliment but to be honest I find that supplemental lights have really helped and have increased the amount. You are correct and I often forget that most people pay separate electric bill, which I do not. I can run as many lights and fans as I want at the same cost as if I don't use any. So efficiency is only a factor of how long they last.


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## Ray (Feb 9, 2016)

naoki said:


> When are you moving, Ray? You are not retiring from FirstRays, are you?




The goal is to move to southeastern NC some time this year, but we have no firm date.

At this point in time, I have no interest in shutting down the business, but I do expect to "narrow" the product line somewhat.


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## naoki (Feb 9, 2016)

MorandiWine said:


> Yes that is the light I am using on my seedlings. After trying a few different brands (testing PAR and energy needs) I landed on the Apache tubes and could not be happier. I am one of those growers that replaces all lights once a year to try and lessen the peaks and valleys in quality of light. That being said, my ROI with using LEDs is quite good at just over 18 months.
> 
> Orchids are definitely unique in the plant world especially Paphs and for the most part Phrags because they like lower light levels and that plays well with using a system like yours in your 4x4 tent. Sounds like a fantastic grow area! Can you post some photographs?



You mean that you replace the fluorescent light bulbs (not LED) once a year, right? When cheap LED strip light was coming out, they had issues with rapid lumen depreciation (not enough heat management), but most well designed LEDs should last much longer. Too be honest, I do keep upgrading, too, when new more efficient ones come out....

Here is the bottom half of 4x4 tent (I know that I should clean it at some point). The tent is 8' tall, so I divide it into two layers to get 32 sq ft of growing space. The top half still has 4x 54W T5HO + a couple older, inefficient LEDs (e.g. Chinese UFO and Cree household LED bulb based fixture), which I'm replacing with the brand new 4x CXB3590. I put the direct light into the photo, so they look dim, but it's a little deceiving. I think that one of them was still a cheap Chinese "100W" COB at the time of the photo. Except for the very corner of the tent, where I put low light plants and acclimating plants, they get pretty good coverage. But you probably notice that the light is very harsh (i.e. shadow from the top leaves) compared to more uniform light like fluorescent or T8 LED. 







NYEric said:


> Thanks for the compliment but to be honest I find that supplemental lights have really helped and have increased the amount. You are correct and I often forget that most people pay separate electric bill, which I do not. I can run as many lights and fans as I want at the same cost as if I don't use any. So efficiency is only a factor of how long they last.



Oh, I see. Then efficiency doesn't matter economically (but it does ecologically)! The other issue could be heat, though. High efficiency means less heat to warm up the room.



Ray said:


> The goal is to move to southeastern NC some time this year, but we have no firm date.
> 
> At this point in time, I have no interest in shutting down the business, but I do expect to "narrow" the product line somewhat.



That's good to hear! Coastal NC is a wonderful place, I was in NC only briefly, but I have a great memory of that region; looking for carnivorous plants in Green Swamp, canoeing to the island where sea turtle lay eggs (I forgot the name of the island), salt water flyfishing etc!


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## NYEric (Feb 10, 2016)

That photo reminds me of our living room!


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## naoki (Feb 10, 2016)

NYEric said:


> That photo reminds me of our living room!



Indeed! I hope that algae (cyanobacteria) hasn't covered your wall, though. oke: Did you get your floor repaired?


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## NYEric (Feb 10, 2016)

No.


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