# A Pale Scottish besseae flavum



## Achamore (Dec 1, 2015)

Just opened, I hope / expect the petals will open more in the next day or so. But it is my first flavum I have ever had that has bloomed, so I'm chuffed.













And this one shows Phrag St Ouen in order to help with colour accuracy in judging the yellow of the flavum.


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## trdyl (Dec 1, 2015)

I'd be happy with it too. It looks like it has good size to it. Have you had it long?


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## Achamore (Dec 1, 2015)

The size is good. Been with me for about 3 months. I bought 2 from one of the German growers that advertised these online in the summer.


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## JasonG (Dec 1, 2015)

Very nice. great looking plant good luck with the other one.


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## Achamore (Dec 1, 2015)

Something nibbled the bud at the beginning so it emerged looking pretty pathetic. But I also bought one around the same time sight unseen from Ratcliffes. So far that looks to have been an expensive mistake. The one shown above cost €35 whereas Ratcliffes charged more than 3x that, and the plants were comparable. So unless the Ratcliffes one produces a stunner, I'll be feeling pretty put out about it...


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## trdyl (Dec 1, 2015)

€35. I wish I could get one for that little.


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## NYEric (Dec 1, 2015)

Yay besseae, and its hybrid!


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## Achamore (Dec 1, 2015)

trdyl said:


> €35. I wish I could get one for that little.



Yes, seemed a great price! Hence my grabbing 2..!


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## SlipperFan (Dec 1, 2015)

Yellow besseae is nice, but I really like the St. Ouen.


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## orchidman77 (Dec 1, 2015)

Love them both, but I'm always partial to a yellow besseae 

David


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## abax (Dec 1, 2015)

I wish I could get a flavum like that at any price! Is it first
bloom? I like it...and I like the other one too. You have
such a wonderful collection of Phrags.

*btw, what does "chuffed" mean?


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## Achamore (Dec 2, 2015)

This is the first bloom off of the 2nd still-visible growth.

"Chuffed" is a British expression meaning to be very pleased with or about something.


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## Achamore (Dec 2, 2015)




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## orchidman77 (Dec 2, 2015)

Gorgeous!!!

David


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## trdyl (Dec 2, 2015)

Looks like it is flattening out. :clap:


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## Achamore (Dec 2, 2015)

trdyl said:


> Looks like it is flattening out.



Yep..!


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## 17andgrowing (Dec 2, 2015)

Congrats!


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## Ozpaph (Dec 2, 2015)

very nice


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## Migrant13 (Dec 2, 2015)

Wow it's getting even better. What a beauty you have there.


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## abax (Dec 2, 2015)

Oh my, I'm soooo jealous. It's really coming along well.

Ah yes, a Brit word. I wonder if the Gaelic equivalent might be brawley or brawly. Interesting word chuff.
Never mind, I'm lost in early 16th century Gaelic and may never make it out again. ;>)


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## Achamore (Dec 3, 2015)

Come on Angela, buy our house, move to Scotland with your reluctant man, and I'll give you this flavum... Deals don't get much better than that, now do they..?  :wink:


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## Achamore (Dec 3, 2015)

3rd day, now fully open. Am including some detail shots.


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## trdyl (Dec 3, 2015)

It looks wonderful. Congrats!


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## orchidman77 (Dec 3, 2015)

Great pictures of a gorgeous flavum! Well done, and thanks for all your sharing!

David


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## SlipperFan (Dec 3, 2015)

So very nice. And now the question: Will you cut the spike so energy can go back into the plant for growing?


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## abax (Dec 3, 2015)

That's a winner with broad petals, fenestrations and great
color. Don, you come sell my nursery, I'll buy your house
and I get some great Phrags. Great deal and no $$$$.
Ain't that the way it always is????


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## Phrag-Plus (Dec 4, 2015)

Gorgeous yellow besseae and great pictures!


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## Achamore (Dec 4, 2015)

Phrag-Plus said:


> Gorgeous yellow besseae and great pictures!



Glad you like it, and the pics..!


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## TDT (Dec 4, 2015)

How sweet is that - the closeup of the fuzzy flower made me smile! Thanks.


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## SlipperKing (Dec 4, 2015)

Very nice yellow


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## Achamore (Dec 4, 2015)

TDT said:


> How sweet is that - the closeup of the fuzzy flower made me smile! Thanks.



I'm glad you like that photo. You don't especially notice the fuzz / hairs with the naked eye, or at least at 59 my eyes don't..! So zooming in with the macro lens really helps in this case.


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## TDT (Dec 5, 2015)

Yes, I'm very fond of macro shots. I also have taken to wearing magnifying glasses for reading fine print (and not so fine print!), and seeing the details in my orchid flowers! I do love the yellow besseaes.


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## Achamore (Dec 5, 2015)

There have been so many postings in the last couple of days that I cannot recall where the question arose of how to get ahold of the EYOF plants in the UK, now that Ratcliffes have gone. So I'll just mention it here. I spoke with Sara Rittershausen of Burnham's Orchids on Friday, and she said it would be very helpful if people were to contact them and let them know they would be interested. It costs them a lot to go over to Jersey with a van, and bring plants back. So advance notice can be sent out to all who let them know they could be interested in EYOF plants. They of course won't know what they are bringing back until they get there. In any case, the costs are so high, that the trip they made in the past year was the first one they had made in 5 years. But if a few of us let them know of our interest, they would probably make the trip more frequently, at least once a year I would hope.

By the way I bought several small EYOF phrags from Burnhams a few months back, and am very pleased to see several are in spike. One should open within a week or so: Vingtaine de Maufant (Petite Queillette x kovachii). Chris Purver of the EYOF sent me a few photos to see what to expect, and it looks wonderful. So I am filled with anticipation..!


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## Achamore (Dec 10, 2015)

I'm curious to know anyone's knowledge or views on something. Given that all the besseae flavum out there are descendants of one plant, is it likely that these descendants will become weaker with each generation of selfing? 

Also, one doesn't see much variation in form, which is obviously due to the one parent. But can hidden genetic variation bring forth more variation in form in succeeding generations? I mean apart from producing 4n varieties via colchicine treatments. We see that bit of red stripe on the 'nose' of the pouch in the just-previous flavum post. How much variety is out there, and how much more might we expect?

Lastly, what do you think the odds are that a 2nd naturally occurring flavum will be found?


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## monocotman (Dec 10, 2015)

*selfings*

Continual selfings of a species that habitually out crosses will usually result in weaker plants over the generations but it also self selects for plants that will grow well despite this factor.
Hidden factors can appear spontaneously during rounds of selfing and these can take many forms.
The best way to improve the form of the flavum besseaes would be to outcross it to a good red.
This would probably produce 100% reds in the following generation but then you would either sib cross two of these progeny or back cross one of these new generation reds to a flavum.
If flavum is a mutation then sibbing two lines would produce 25% yellows and back crossing would produce 50% yellows.
Breeders use both systems for improving the form of weakermutations,
David


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## SlipperKing (Dec 10, 2015)

Well chuff me grits! (hybrid saying , that is a nice one.


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## Achamore (Dec 10, 2015)

monocotman said:


> Continual selfings of a species that habitually out crosses will usually result in weaker plants over the generations but it also self selects for plants that will grow well despite this factor.
> Hidden factors can appear spontaneously during rounds of selfing and these can take many forms.
> The best way to improve the form of the flavum besseaes would be to outcross it to a good red.
> This would probably produce 100% reds in the following generation but then you would either sib cross two of these progeny or back cross one of these new generation reds to a flavum.
> ...



Thank you David, very interesting..! And is this what some breeders are doing with besseae flavum? Anyone know?


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## NYEric (Dec 10, 2015)

Achamore said:


> TOne should open within a week or so: Vingtaine de Maufant (Petite Queillette x kovachii). Chris Purver of the EYOF sent me a few photos to see what to expect, and it looks wonderful. So I am filled with anticipation..!



I think there may be a photo in the thread from the Paph Symposium in DC a couple of years ago, search "Chris Purver" to find it. 



Achamore said:


> And is this what some breeders are doing with besseae flavum? Anyone know?



There have been different routes taken, some have done the cross with a super-red, some have done line breeding and selection, and some have used colchicine to effect the ploidy.


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## Linus_Cello (Dec 10, 2015)

NYEric said:


> I think there may be a photo in the thread from the Paph Symposium in DC a couple of years ago, search "Chris Purver" to find it.



This thread?
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28235&page=2


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## NYEric (Dec 10, 2015)

No.
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28750&highlight=EYOF


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## Achamore (Dec 11, 2015)

Those are interesting threads, but not really about besseae flavum breeding.


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## NYEric (Dec 11, 2015)

There are not a lot of people doing besseae flavum breeding, OZ, Franz Glanz, Tom Kalina maybe some of the new Hawaian growers...


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## trdyl (Dec 11, 2015)

Chuck Acker and Orchids Limited are also doing some breeding with besseae flavum.


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## Achamore (Jan 24, 2016)

This young plant is now presenting its 3rd bloom. Glad to see a new growth coming up as well.


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## Rick (Jan 24, 2016)

Awesome Achmore!


I think we really need you to attach a sound clip narrating the description of your Scottish besseae in your Scottish brogue:wink:

Include the part about being "chuffed".


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## Jaljala (Jan 24, 2016)

It has a beautiful shape and color ! Love it!


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## Achamore (Jan 24, 2016)

Rick said:


> I think we really need you to attach a sound clip narrating the description of your Scottish besseae in your Scottish brogue.



Oh heavens, I'd be a BIG disappointment: I'm from California originally. Have lived in the UK for about 35 years, and in Scotland itself only the past 12 years. :wink:


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## Rick (Jan 24, 2016)

Achamore said:


> Oh heavens, I'd be a BIG disappointment: I'm from California originally. Have lived in the UK for about 35 years, and in Scotland itself only the past 12 years. :wink:



That's hilarious!!

I'm also originally from CA, but spent a few years in Yeoville, Somerset as a kid.

Everyone at school wanted to hear my "Texas - cowboy drawl" accent and were also pretty disappointed:rollhappy:

But you should be able to fake it pretty good after 12 years.:wink:


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## trdyl (Jan 25, 2016)

That is so nice!

Don, How long have you been growing orchids?


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## dewittwv (Jan 25, 2016)

It's beautiful!! Where did you get it? I have been looking for a nice one.


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## Achamore (Jan 25, 2016)

dewittwv said:


> It's beautiful!! Where did you get it? I have been looking for a nice one.



Won't be much use to you. The grower is in Germany.

I hear you have had some snow lately..! :wink:


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