# Anyone have a definitive answer?



## Heather (Oct 15, 2006)

Apparently this question was posted by someone else on the other forum but didn't yield anything definitive. 
Since the person who posted the question on OGD today is my fellow society member, Marty Epstein, I said I'd try it over here and let him know. 



> The RHS Online lists:
> 
> P. richteri = P. boissierianum X pearcei (natural hybrid)
> P. Taras = P. boisserianum X pearcei
> ...


----------



## Mahon (Oct 15, 2006)

Basically, you are crossing a Phrag. Taras with a Phrag. besseae... 

The parenthasees indicate a cross. If there was another epithet outside of the parenthasees, then that says the cross inside the parenthasees was crossed with what is outside the parenthasees...

(Did any of that make a bit of sense?)

-Pat


----------



## silence882 (Oct 15, 2006)

If the only information you have to go on is the label, you can assume the cross is the unregistered Phrag (Taras x besseae).

It may be helpful to ask whoever he bought the cross from about the origin of the (boissierianum x pearcei) parent. 

--Stephen


----------



## Jon in SW Ohio (Oct 15, 2006)

Taras and richteri are identical (at least mine are), though for registration I believe it would be (Taras x richteri). Exact same problem goes with Conco-bellatulum and wenshanense. One is an F1 primary hybrid, the other is an established "entity" many generations beyond F1.

Jon
________
BUY HERBALAIRE VAPORIZER


----------



## Rick (Oct 15, 2006)

When did richteri (aka amazonica) get listed as a natural hybrid?

Did anyone tell Olaf?


----------



## bwester (Oct 16, 2006)

I believe the answer is........ 42.


----------



## Heather (Oct 16, 2006)

Rick said:


> When did richteri (aka amazonica) get listed as a natural hybrid?
> 
> Did anyone tell Olaf?



Yeah, I'd not heard that myself!


----------



## Leo Schordje (Oct 16, 2006)

Last time I checked richteri was a valid species. Who claimed it was a hybrid?


----------



## silence882 (Oct 16, 2006)

On richteri being a natural hybrid:

"Gruss (1996) includes this [Phrag richteri] in his recent treatment of Phragmipedium and states that it is the same entity as the natural hybrid documented by Bennett and Christenson (1993). Christenson thinks this most likely to be a hybrid between P. pearcei and P. boissierianum."

Source: McCook, Lucile M. "An Annotated Checklist of the Genus Phragmipedium." Orchid Digest special publication (1998): 1-12.

--Stephen


----------



## ORG (Oct 16, 2006)

Phrag, richteri was descried as a species and I think it is really a distinct species.
Eric has only noted this plant before as a natural hybrid but without official description. 
In USA these plants were in culture as amazonica, peruviana or as Phrag. topperi. All these are tradenames and never used officially in a description.
Phrag. richteri is accepted by the Orchid Registrar and so is the cross between Phrag. Tara and Phrag. besseae a really new cross and needs a new name.

Best greetings

Olaf


----------



## Rick (Oct 16, 2006)

Its hard to keep track.

In Olaf's phrag checklist in OD 4th 1/4 2003, richteri is listed as described as a species by Roeth and Gruss in 1994.

Olaf acknowledges the work by McCook and Christianson as dissenting, but still claims the species is valid in that article.


----------

