# Orchids on Mars



## Shiva (Jan 17, 2015)

I'm testing a new LED panel, this one a 900W Mars II with 5W diodes.
Very bright, very quiet and very heavy (28 Pounds). Uses less than 500W.
Put some of my orchids and a few other large plants, including a coffee tree under with excellent results.
I read many pot growers are using these and more powerful one instead of HID lamps with good success.
Lamp produce insignificant amount of heat.
If I'm still satisfied next fall, I'll buy a tent and grow mounted plants inside. Humidity, light and heat should be just right.


----------



## NYEric (Jan 17, 2015)

The heat conservation will be a good thing in the warmer seasons.


----------



## Secundino (Jan 17, 2015)

500W?? That is three time what I use in all my rooms, including aquaria..... you really mean 500W? 
With 500 W - a few t8 fluorescents - you could light many m2 with plants.


----------



## ALToronto (Jan 17, 2015)

How can a 900 W light fixture use 500 W? Not to mention that 900 W will light a stadium. I think you're mixing up your input and output wattages, and multiplying by 10.


----------



## Shiva (Jan 17, 2015)

Secundino said:


> 500W?? That is three time what I use in all my rooms, including aquaria..... you really mean 500W?
> With 500 W - a few t8 fluorescents - you could light many m2 with plants.



The panel itself is rated at 900W but actually uses around 460W or perhaps a bit more. It covers 4x4 feet in bright light with about 95 per cent efficiency. It can cover a 5x5 area for less demanding plants like phals and paphs. The company also sells 1200 and 1600W panels which offer larger coverage. 

I used to grow orchids with two 1000W HID lamps in the past. Of course then, I had many more plants.


----------



## Shiva (Jan 17, 2015)

ALToronto said:


> How can a 900 W light fixture use 500 W? Not to mention that 900 W will light a stadium. I think you're mixing up your input and output wattages, and multiplying by 10.



Diodes are only a few millimeters across and they would burn up if used at full power. Considering the efficiency of the lights the reduction of power makes them last for at least 50,000 hours.


----------



## Happypaphy7 (Jan 17, 2015)

Look like my set up in the kitchen. 
I flowered paph ( Maudiae type), phals, miniature dendrobium species, angeraecum, and others. 
Now I use it mostly for seedlings.


----------



## gonewild (Jan 17, 2015)

Does the color actually like this in the room oris it only because of the wb in the camera?


----------



## Shiva (Jan 17, 2015)

gonewild said:


> Does the color actually like this in the room oris it only because of the wb in the camera?



Yes this is the right color. Those kind of lights are designed for what the plants need, red, yellow and blue. Human eyesight is keyed for white light. Lamps of this type are 95 per cent efficient (more or less depending on the hype) for producing plant food and growth. If you want, you can put a few compact fluorescent lights around to get the green out. 
LED come in various forms: you can have a completely blue panel for growth only and a red one for flowering, or like the one shown here to promote both growth and flowering. If you want to see the true colors of the flowers, you have to get them out in natural light. But don't kid yourself, those lights are so bright that you don't want to look at them face on.


----------



## gonewild (Jan 17, 2015)

Shiva said:


> Yes this is the right color. Those kind of lights are designed for what the plants need, red, yellow and blue. Human eyesight is keyed for white light. Lamps of this type are 95 per cent efficient (more or less depending on the hype) for producing plant food and growth. If you want, you can put a few compact fluorescent lights around to get the green out.
> LED come in various forms: you can have a completely blue panel for growth only and a red one for flowering, or like the one shown here to promote both growth and flowering. If you want to see the true colors of the flowers, you have to get them out in natural light. But don't kid yourself, those lights are so bright that you don't want to look at them face on.



So how can you tell if the plant is growing correctly if you can't see the real colors? I look for subtle changes in leaf color to know how things are going.... I need to see my plants on Earth not Mars! 
I will not give up the beauty of the color of natural light and move to a modern space station life style! You guys are nuts. :wink:


----------



## Paphluvr (Jan 17, 2015)

Secundino said:


> 500W?? That is three time what I use in all my rooms, including aquaria..... you really mean 500W?
> With 500 W - a few t8 fluorescents - you could light many m2 with plants.


Why does 500w seem high? When I was growing under light my main bench was 30"w x 8'l. The lighting was two dual lamp HO strip fluorescent fixtures with a homemade reflector. This provided 440w to an area of 20 sq ft. (I believe that's about 2 sq m).


----------



## Shiva (Jan 17, 2015)

Lance, Mars is only the name of the company. Remember we, up north, where we have to grow plants inside for months, the cost of energy is something we need to think of.

That said, I respect your opinion.


----------



## gonewild (Jan 17, 2015)

Your eyes NEED to see the natural color of light or your brain will go insane!
oke:

You're using 500w energy to light an area that you could light with 250w of HID, or am I missing something? And during the winter surely you benefit from the heat from HID?


----------



## Shiva (Jan 17, 2015)

Lance! I did mention it was a test. If I'm satisfied, I will use it in a grow tent where I can grow high light requirement orchids, like vandas and some large and small cattleyas. And the heat output and more humidity are important factors in such an enclosed area. I know, I know: I won't even see them anymore. But I still have large plants I can put under an HID lamp if I want to. But for now, I'm testing a new lamp.


----------



## mrhappyrotter (Jan 17, 2015)

Ugh. This thread just prompted me to do some calculations on my growing area. This is very rough non-metric math, but as I see it.....

The sum total of energy from lights devoted to growing plants is roughly 770w, primarily from T8s and a few supplemental CFL spiral bulbs. A very rough estimate of my growing area (primarily shelves) is 504 sq.ft. That puts my plants at around 1.5 watt per square foot. Not bad ... that's similar to what you might use in a planted aquarium.

The eye opening part is that I hadn't realized I'm up to 770w of lights ... it's actually more because I also have a number of fish tanks, on shelves, lit with T8s and compact fluorescent bulbs that I didn't count since they aren't dedicated directly to the terrestrial plants.


----------



## Shiva (Jan 17, 2015)

mrhappyrotter said:


> Ugh. This thread just prompted me to do some calculations on my growing area. This is very rough non-metric math, but as I see it.....
> 
> The sum total of energy from lights devoted to growing plants is roughly 770w, primarily from T8s and a few supplemental CFL spiral bulbs. A very rough estimate of my growing area (primarily shelves) is 504 sq.ft. That puts my plants at around 1.5 watt per square foot. Not bad ... that's similar to what you might use in a planted aquarium.
> 
> The eye opening part is that I hadn't realized I'm up to 770w of lights ... it's actually more because I also have a number of fish tanks, on shelves, lit with T8s and compact fluorescent bulbs that I didn't count since they aren't dedicated directly to the terrestrial plants.



A hobby is expensive by nature. You can't factor in the cost of the pleasure you get from your hobby, which is really why you do it. I used to have a greenhouse for my orchids and I only gave it up when I couldn't afford the rising cost of heating it through our winters. Since then, I've tried every growing and lighting systems you can think of. All very expensive but I enjoyed every minutes of it. Still do! 

And I have a cold storage area that gets down to near 0°C in winter, complete with shelves... A few cheap T8 would do wonder for masdies and dracs, or Disas, among others.


----------



## gonewild (Jan 17, 2015)

mrhappyrotter said:


> Ugh. This thread just prompted me to do some calculations on my growing area. This is very rough non-metric math, but as I see it.....
> 
> The sum total of energy from lights devoted to growing plants is roughly 770w, primarily from T8s and a few supplemental CFL spiral bulbs. A very rough estimate of my growing area (primarily shelves) is 504 sq.ft. That puts my plants at around 1.5 watt per square foot. Not bad ... that's similar to what you might use in a planted aquarium.
> 
> The eye opening part is that I hadn't realized I'm up to 770w of lights ... it's actually more because I also have a number of fish tanks, on shelves, lit with T8s and compact fluorescent bulbs that I didn't count since they aren't dedicated directly to the terrestrial plants.



You really really should not add all this up.


----------



## gonewild (Jan 17, 2015)

Shiva said:


> Lance! I did mention it was a test. If I'm satisfied, I will use it in a grow tent where I can grow high light requirement orchids, like vandas and some large and small cattleyas. And the heat output and more humidity are important factors in such an enclosed area. I know, I know: I won't even see them anymore. But I still have large plants I can put under an HID lamp if I want to. But for now, I'm testing a new lamp.



OK, as long as the grow tent is sealed so the ugly says inside. 
That will be OK.


----------



## ALToronto (Jan 17, 2015)

These blue and red lights are a holdover from the pot growers who grow their plants as annuals. I will never be convinced that a partial spectrum is sufficient for longterm growth and health of orchids and other perennial plants. It's like feeding only N-P-K and nothing else - the plants will grow and may even bloom - once. But you couldn't keep it up longterm. 

And for all those with fluorescents - discover white LED's!! They're so much more energy efficient for the same light output, and with much better quality light.


----------



## Linus_Cello (Jan 17, 2015)

NYEric said:


> The heat conservation will be a good thing in the warmer seasons.



Probably another reason why the pot growers like this- no need to worry about thermal imaging in cold weather and police visits.


----------



## Linus_Cello (Jan 17, 2015)

Secundino said:


> 500W?? That is three time what I use in all my rooms, including aquaria..... you really mean 500W?
> With 500 W - a few t8 fluorescents - you could light many m2 with plants.



Speaking of aquaria, are these water resistant? No need to worry about really high humidity? Do these combine with other lights well for more naturalistic colors?


----------



## Secundino (Jan 17, 2015)

Paphluvr said:


> Why does 500w seem high? When I was growing under light my main bench was 30"w x 8'l. The lighting was two dual lamp HO strip fluorescent fixtures with a homemade reflector. This provided 440w to an area of 20 sq ft. (I believe that's about 2 sq m).



As I have to look for every _eurocent_, changing from t5 to led is a question every time I have to change a fluorescent. Up to recently, the output in lumen did not match t5 - with equal W.

lost the quote form happyrotter: that amount for 47 m2 would have been my choice. 

Speaking of aquaria, are these water resistant? No need to worry about really high humidity? Do these combine with other lights well for more naturalistic colors?

A few weeks ago I needed a new bulb - or led for my aquarium. For the first time I took a led: 11W 950 lm; that is a bit less than the bulb I had before. 4000K (I'd have preferred higher ºK) 120º amplitude. I managed to assemble the led-lamp into the reflector of the former aquael 11w bulb; it is hanging over the open aquarium, no issues with humidity so far.
The overall impression is good; yellowish compared to 6300ºK before, nice shadows on the ground, and the plants have reacted that means, they get more light right now (the bulb loose intensity with time). The price for a new compact bulb would have been 21 euros; for the led it was 12 €. First time that led was cheaper with nearly equal lumen output and same W.

And there is no need as far as I know to use red and/or blue leds. I'll try and upload a pic.







Led to the left 11W 4000ºK; t5 (sorry: not t8!!!) 2x 14W 865 Phillips right


----------



## gonewild (Jan 17, 2015)

Linus_Cello said:


> Probably another reason why the pot growers like this- no need to worry about thermal imaging in cold weather and police visits.



That's exactly why! 
And to lower their energy bill....Not the cost of energy because they can surely afford it....they need the bill to have smaller numbers so it looks like it could be a home.


----------



## Shiva (Jan 17, 2015)

Linus_Cello said:


> Probably another reason why the pot growers like this- no need to worry about thermal imaging in cold weather and police visits.



This is exactly what drives development of these lamps. Pot plants grow large and compact, flower heavily and with a high level of THC, so I've read... Consider also someone with several 1kW hps in his grow up operation. Led take much less power so they don't have to be connected directly to hydro lines, which happens with hps and can cause fires or otherwise alert public utilities with high power bills. :evil:


----------



## Shiva (Jan 17, 2015)

Linus_Cello said:


> Speaking of aquaria, are these water resistant? No need to worry about really high humidity? Do these combine with other lights well for more naturalistic colors?



Water and electricity don't mix. These lamps have fans to keep the individual diodes cool so they should be kept away from direct contact with water. Like I wrote to Lance, you can combine them with fluorocompact lamps to get natural greens. I tried it and it works. As for humid atmosphere, I would keep it at no more than 75 to 80 %. This will be my next test, next winter.
I won't use the lamp in summer while the plants are either outside or inside in front of large sunny windows. The main problem I have in winter is dryness in the air. The basement is much cooler, which helps.


----------



## ALToronto (Jan 17, 2015)

Secun, if you buy directly from China, you will pay a lot less. The bulb you bought was most likely made in China anyway.

Here is an example:

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/5PCS...-led-bulb-lamp-light-B22-AC85/1718998196.html

I just ordered fifteen 12W bulbs for $52 (Cad) - that's €37, with free shipping. I'm replacing all the cfl bulbs in my house.

I find that the local retailers are just greedy when it comes to LED's. They charge what the market is willing to pay, which is about a 500% markup. As much as I'm in favour of buying local, when the product itself is not made locally, I can't get very patriotic. Eventually, as people discover direct sources online, the retail prices will drop to more reasonable levels, but for now the prices from 3-4 years ago are still stuck in consumers' minds, and retailers are taking advantage.


----------



## Shiva (Jan 17, 2015)

For those interested in trying led grow light panels, the Internet is a good place to investigate but be aware of the hype and wide difference in prices for equivalent power panels. Also there is a lot of obsolete stuff made up to pass for new. Prices are coming down with the introduction of new more powerful chips. White chips have showed up recently at 10W rated power. Look for quality and after sale service. When I bought my panel, I went for the 700W panel but they had none left and offered me a 900W for the same price. That shows good business sense.


----------



## gonewild (Jan 17, 2015)

Secundino said:


> And there is no need as far as I know to use red and/or blue leds. I'll try and upload a pic.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



On your aquarium the light color looks great! It makes the water look more natural, like black water...which is actually yellow. 
If the plants are actually aquatic from black water then they probably will be growing better with the new light color.


----------



## Erythrone (Jan 17, 2015)

Secundino said:


> As I have to look for every _eurocent_, changing from t5 to led is a question every time I have to change a fluorescent. Up to recently, the output in lumen did not match t5 - with equal W.
> 
> lost the quote form happyrotter: that amount for 47 m2 would have been my choice.
> 
> ...



Guppy breeder?


----------



## ALToronto (Jan 17, 2015)

Shiva said:


> For those interested in trying led grow light panels, the Internet is a good place to investigate but be aware of the hype and wide difference in prices for equivalent power panels. Also there is a lot of obsolete stuff made up to pass for new. Prices are coming down with the introduction of new more powerful chips. White chips have showed up recently at 10W rated power. Look for quality and after sale service. When I bought my panel, I went for the 700W panel but they had none left and offered me a 900W for the same price. That shows good business sense.



Shiva, your information is a few years out of date. 10W chips are nothing new, and by now if you're paying more than $2/chip, you're being ripped off.

Your post simply illustrates my earlier point that retail vendors in the West are taking advantage of people's ignorance about the latest in LED technology, and overcharging accordingly. Go have a look at what's available on alibaba and aliexpress in LED chips, light panels and fixtures. You will never look at locally sold fixtures again.


----------



## Shiva (Jan 17, 2015)

ALToronto said:


> Shiva, your information is a few years out of date. 10W chips are nothing new, and by now if you're paying more than $2/chip, you're being ripped off.
> 
> Your post simply illustrates my earlier point that retail vendors in the West are taking advantage of people's ignorance about the latest in LED technology, and overcharging accordingly. Go have a look at what's available on alibaba and aliexpress in LED chips, light panels and fixtures. You will never look at locally sold fixtures again.



After looking, I can see bigger than 10W chips but panels still have 5W chips, the same as I have and at more than three times the price. The ChloroBA has a 180° coverage but is less powerful and sells for $1500. But you are right, the 10W chip is old news.


----------

