# Moving a collection overseas????



## bwester (Apr 12, 2007)

How hard is it to move a collection overseas, say from USA to New Zealand?


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## gonewild (Apr 12, 2007)

bwester said:


> How hard is it to move a collection overseas, say from USA to New Zealand?



Forget moving any CITES app1 species. 
For others your only problems will be with the other countries import laws.


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## lienluu (Apr 12, 2007)

bwester said:


> How hard is it to move a collection overseas, say from USA to New Zealand?



Are you moving to New Zealand?


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## littlefrog (Apr 12, 2007)

Kevin, you on this board???

My friend Kevin moved to Australia a couple years ago and his plants are still at my greenhouse... I suspect your situations would be similar, so if he can throw his two cents in that would probably help.

So far it has been a combination of inertia and paperwork that keeps the plants with me. Inertia to get moving on the paperwork, which is onerous to say the least. I know the plants need to be quarantined in Australia, and Kevin needs to arrange that and the import paperwork. And of course I need to get CITES and phyto from the USA at some point too. It doesn't help that our seasons are switched. New Zealand is perhaps even more restrictive than Australia, they take all imports of plants or animals very seriously so as to protect their fragile ecosystem. Good for them... Hard on us. 

I would say that if you are planning on moving to NZ for good, then worry about it. If you might be staying temporarily (say a couple of years), find a temporary home in the states. A local commercial grower might rent you space, or if you can whittle down the collection to just a few prize plants, perhaps you can find an orchid friend to babysit.


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## Ernie (Apr 12, 2007)

bwester said:


> How hard is it to move a collection overseas, say from USA to New Zealand?



Too hard. I think you should give all your slippers to me. :rollhappy: 

-Ernie


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## bwester (Apr 12, 2007)

lienluu said:


> Are you moving to New Zealand?


Considering it...


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## gonewild (Apr 12, 2007)

Blake, it will be way to frustrating to try to move your collection. 
Just think how much fun it will be to start over.
:sob:


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## bwester (Apr 12, 2007)

Kiss my arse, Lance!!!! 
Your just jealous oke:


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## gonewild (Apr 12, 2007)

bwester said:


> Kiss my arse, Lance!!!!
> Your just jealous oke:



Did I ever tell you how much I regret ever leaving even just one of my orchid plants behind? 

I still feel the longing pain for that little red lipped phalie. 
 
:sob:


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## gore42 (Apr 12, 2007)

Blake,

One of the exemptions for CITES is when you're moving your household "stuff". I'd have to look up the exact clause, but the idea is that if you're moving to a new country and not just exporting things, you're allowed to take your stuff with you without getting CITES permits.

It would be worth taking a look at the CITES website and figuring out whether your situation would fall under this exemption.

Of course, you'd still have to get Phtyosanitary permits, I expect. But that's another issue. And They would still be a pain to move... I'd box them (as if you were shipping them) and take them on the plane with you as cargo.

- Matt


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## Heather (Apr 12, 2007)

I claimed dibs last night.


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## gonewild (Apr 12, 2007)

gore42 said:


> Blake,
> 
> One of the exemptions for CITES is when you're moving your household "stuff". I'd have to look up the exact clause, but the idea is that if you're moving to a new country and not just exporting things, you're allowed to take your stuff with you without getting CITES permits.
> 
> - Matt



What a great exemption for smugglers.


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## Candace (Apr 12, 2007)

Household "stuff" isn't the same as live plants or animals, Matt. And stowing plants in your cargo luggage is a great way to get arrested as a smuggler! I don't know the rules for bringing in plants to N.Z. Andy Easton would be a great person to contact on this. If it's ANYTHING like bringing plants into Australia, forget it. Long quarantine period, usually gassing for bugs real or imagined. Even if you were to decide to go that route, a good percentage of them wouldn't live through the quarantine procedures. I bet Andy Easton wouldn't mind answering some questions about it. I know he checks in on the OSF once in a while or someone may have his e-mail addy for you.

Here's the CITES listing from New Zealand:
The Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES) was formulated to regulate and monitor the trade in endangered species. CITES works by placing controls on international trade in specimens of CITES-listed species.

The following plants and species may be subject to CITES, as well as any products manufactured from them, for example, jewellery, ornaments, carvings, feathers and so on. This list is not exhaustive:

* aloes (except aloe vera)
* birds (including birds of prey, storks, cranes, bustards, owls, hummingbirds, hornbills, birds of paradise, parrots and parrot allies)
* cactus
* cats (except domestic cats)
* caviar
* crocodiles and alligators
* cycads
* elephants (including ivory products)
* euphorbias
* giant clams
* hard coral (including black coral and coral found on the beach)
* orchids
* primates
* queen conch
* scorpions
* snakes
* swallowtail and birdwing butterflies
* tarantulas
* tortoise and turtles
* traditional Chinese medicines containing musk or saussurea
* whales and dolphins.

The Department of Conservation is the management authority responsible for administering CITES in New Zealand, while Customs and the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry are responsible for monitoring and enforcing CITES trade documentation at the border.

If you are considering importing any wildlife, or wildlife derivative or product, you must obtain any necessary permits from the Department of Conservation prior to importation. If CITES permits are not produced at time of importation, the items will be confiscated and cannot be returned to the importer under any circumstances.


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## gore42 (Apr 12, 2007)

Candace,

I'm not just making this up. This exemption DOES cover live plants and animals. Look at the convention:

(From Article VII, paragraph 3)

*3. The provisions of Articles III, IV and V shall not apply to specimens that are personal or household effects. This exemption shall not apply where:

(a) in the case of specimens of a species included in Appendix I, they were acquired by the owner outside his State of usual residence, and are being imported into that State; or

(b) in the case of specimens of species included in Appendix II:

(i) they were acquired by the owner outside his State of usual residence and in a State where removal from the wild occurred;

(ii) they are being imported into the owner's State of usual residence; and

(iii) the State where removal from the wild occurred requires the prior grant of export permits before any export of such specimens; unless a Management Authority is satisfied that the specimens were acquired before the provisions of the present Convention applied to such specimens.*

and see:

http://www.cites.org/eng/res/all/12/E12-09.pdf

In a separate document that is intended to clarify the terms in Article VII par. 3, you'll find the following:

*Clarification of Article VII, paragraph 3
14. The general rule is that the Convention does not apply to specimens that are personal or household
effects. Such specimens could be live, dead or parts or derivatives of any species listed in Appendix I, II
or III of CITES.*

(link: http://www.cites.org/eng/cop/12/doc/E12-54-1.pdf )

The idea of having them in personal luggage (obviously, I mean for them to be declared to customs) is that they won't have to go through the handling of mail carriers, ans so that they can be properly declared to customs in person.

It goes without saying that each individual country will have regulations apart from CITES that cover the import of plant material. I'm certainly not suggesting that anyone just pack up their stuff and take it on the plane... this is something that needs to be investigated seriously before anyone attempt the transport, which is why I suggested that Blake take a look at the CITES website. It would also be a good idea to talk to a Fish and Wildlife or APHIS agent, or Customs official.

- Matt


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## lienluu (Apr 12, 2007)

Matt,

I am slightly familiar with the exemption you're talking. I know many people who use this exemption to bring in parrots. You are allowed to bring in 2 birds (one pair) as part of your household list of items. No paperwork other than health certificates are needed. You must show however, that you have lived in the country you are moving out of a minimum of 1 year and are not allowed to bring more than 2 birds.

I don't know how it applies to orchids and what the cap is on the number you're allowed to bring as part of this exemption.


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## Candace (Apr 12, 2007)

Oh, if only every country interpreted CITES the same way...NOT. And then if you happen upon a power hungry ag. agent or a NEW ag. agent then ?? Try explaining CITES(arguing) with a new ag. inspector. Been there. Not fun. And not worth the risk of losing all your plants or the work to get them through, IMHO. Especially if most of them can be replaced at some point in the future. I've only dealth with importing, so can only comment on what I know from that standpoint.

N.Z. is known to have some of the strictist plant importing regs. in the world. If keeping your plants weighs heavily in your decision to move, than this is something to ponder.


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## Inverness (Apr 12, 2007)

CITES notwithstanding, you do have to comply with the ag requirements of any country you're bringing live plants into. At minimum, a phytosanitary certificate would be required. Any additional requirements; spraying, dipping, fumigation, quarantine must be satisfied too. I would agree that trying to take the apparently allowable exemption of 'personal orchids' would be a risky one at best.


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## NYEric (Apr 12, 2007)

Ernie said:


> Too hard. I think you should give all your slippers to me. :rollhappy:
> 
> -Ernie


Forget Ernie and Heather, leave your plants w/ me and I'll ssend photos and let you talk to them on the phone, and even visit when you come back!!!


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## Candace (Apr 12, 2007)

This was quoted by Andy Easton at the OSF "Forget about moving plants to New Zealand. They have one of the most restrictive and non-user-friendly plant quarantine systems in the world. Firstly they have to check if the plant is already there but from their inadequate records this is always a farce. Then, if they decide it is not, you are in the hands of ERMA, a bunch of bloated (in every sense of the word) udder suckers who get to decide if your plant is going to become a noxious weed. (If I was on this committee I would deem all Phrags except kovachi and besseae and all Pleurothallids except Masdevallias in the noxious weed designation!!) Only then, after fees etc will you be eligible to start on the actual entry process. But this is not the end of your troubles. You then have to quarantine the plants in a specially built facility for a minimum of three months or longer if they have not made a new growth, all the while paying time and mileage for an inspector to view them regularly. That is why the orchid scene in New Zealand and Australia has become so hopelessly inbred of late. It is actually worse in Australia as in nearly every jurisdiction the PQ Nazis are too lazy to offer a dipping option so all bare-root plants must be fumigated as well as quarantined. Very few survive the total package. Makes the good old USA seem positively lax doesn't it!"


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