# Brown rot? Erwinia?



## PaphLover (Dec 12, 2015)

Found this on my paph. anitum x sanderianum seedling when repotting. Is this brown rot or a simple dying away of oldest leaf? It is dry at the brown area and not mushy. 

https://imageshack.us/i/p507HCsjj
https://imageshack.us/i/p7tq8DJvj


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## SlipperFan (Dec 12, 2015)

I don't like the looks of that -- normal dying starts at the tip, not the base. I'd treat it with a mixture of lime and cinnamon, outside and inside the leaf.


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## Ozpaph (Dec 12, 2015)

Agree, not good.
Remove the leaf, carefully.(split down the middle and tear the two halves apart)
Use cinnamon etc. (try Dragon's blood if you can get it, quickly)
Keep it a little dryer with plenty of air movement.
Repot.


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## Justin (Dec 12, 2015)

Ozpaph said:


> Agree, not good.
> Remove the leaf, carefully.(split down the middle and tear the two halves apart)
> Use cinnamon etc. (try Dragon's blood if you can get it, quickly)
> Keep it a little dryer with plenty of air movement.
> Repot.



i agree with this.


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## PaphLover (Dec 12, 2015)

SlipperFan said:


> I don't like the looks of that -- normal dying starts at the tip, not the base. I'd treat it with a mixture of lime and cinnamon, outside and inside the leaf.



Cinnamon, yes, but never heard of using lime before. How to apply and what does it do?


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## PaphLover (Dec 12, 2015)

Ozpaph said:


> Agree, not good.
> Remove the leaf, carefully.(split down the middle and tear the two halves apart)
> Use cinnamon etc. (try Dragon's blood if you can get it, quickly)
> Keep it a little dryer with plenty of air movement.
> Repot.



Okay, removed offending leaf as suggested. Looks clear to me underneath. But what's that growth? Might it be too hopeful of me to think that's the beginning of a new fan? Isn't this seedling too young? Don't new fans only grow once plant is mature? If it is a new fan should I still apply cinnamon or will that damage growth? Oh dear, me of a thousand questions..

https://imageshack.us/i/pb9NEyeHj
https://imageshack.us/i/hljdiZ1oj


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## PaphLover (Dec 12, 2015)

Ozpaph said:


> Agree, not good.
> Remove the leaf, carefully.(split down the middle and tear the two halves apart)
> Use cinnamon etc. (try Dragon's blood if you can get it, quickly)
> Keep it a little dryer with plenty of air movement.
> Repot.



Also, never heard of Dragon's blood and thought you were being facetious. But being a good student, looked it up anyway. Huh! Who knew?!


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## Ozpaph (Dec 12, 2015)

PaphLover said:


> Okay, removed offending leaf as suggested. Looks clear to me underneath. But what's that growth? Might it be too hopeful of me to think that's the beginning of a new fan? Isn't this seedling too young? Don't new fans only grow once plant is mature? If it is a new fan should I still apply cinnamon or will that damage growth? Oh dear, me of a thousand questions..
> 
> https://imageshack.us/i/pb9NEyeHj
> https://imageshack.us/i/hljdiZ1oj



That's a new growth - now dust all around the base with cinnamon.


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## Ozpaph (Dec 12, 2015)

PaphLover said:


> Also, never heard of Dragon's blood and thought you were being facetious. But being a good student, looked it up anyway. Huh! Who knew?!



see this thread - Lance used to have some. Worth getting.
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39050&highlight=Dragons+blood


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## NYEric (Dec 12, 2015)

Cinnamon, lime powder, bot work. Dragon's blood is good but very hard to get.


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## consettbay2003 (Dec 12, 2015)

It doesn't look like erwinia to me. The leading edge of an Erwinia infection has a moist translucent appearance. Erwinia also has a very distinctive odour. I agree with Ozpaph's suggestion but I would use Bordeaux Mixture.


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## Ozpaph (Dec 12, 2015)

Bordeaux is lime and copper so, along the same lines. (dont use it on hard-cane dendrobes)


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## PaphLover (Dec 12, 2015)

Thanks everyone! Goodness, each time I think I know something about treatments I hear of a new one. Lime powder? Bordeaux Mixture? Back to the internet I go.

Ok, so am I wrong about new fan growth? So far, I've only seen new growth once the mother plant has matured and flowered. This one is not there yet.


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## PaphLover (Dec 12, 2015)

NYEric said:


> Cinnamon, lime powder, bot work. Dragon's blood is good but very hard to get.



Found a seller in Ontario. Not sure of quality, but other products on the site seem to have good testimonials so I might try to get some.


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## gonewild (Dec 13, 2015)

The brown is probably caused by a fungi.

Maybe Fusarium.
or
Phytophthora


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## Justin (Dec 13, 2015)

you're looking good now. yes that looks like a new growth. good luck.


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## abax (Dec 13, 2015)

Lance, how's the walking DB coming along so far? I have
a bottle of Phyton 27 which says fungicide/bactericide might that be a decent substitute for DB? I wonder if one
mixed up a small batch to the consistency of DB and applied it directly to erwinia if it might be effective. Thoughts?

Paphlover, you found a seller for Dragon's Blood in Ontario? Might we be able to get it in the US?


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## gonewild (Dec 14, 2015)

abax said:


> Lance, how's the walking DB coming along so far? I have
> a bottle of Phyton 27 which says fungicide/bactericide might that be a decent substitute for DB? I wonder if one
> mixed up a small batch to the consistency of DB and applied it directly to erwinia if it might be effective. Thoughts?
> 
> Paphlover, you found a seller for Dragon's Blood in Ontario? Might we be able to get it in the US?




Still a bit of a logistics problem in the supply chain, I hope to have the issue resolved soon. I should know more later this week.
There are a few sources for DB online but they all are not pure as naturally collected and have additives that for some reason reduce their effectiveness. 

I would not use the Phyton at a concentrated rate. well actually I might try what you suggest but I would expect not good results and possible severe damage.

So far none of the basic fungicide chemicals have a really good control for bacteria. Most are contact killers and work as simple surface sterilizers. The only thing that seems to work for the commercial Phalaenopsis growers are certain antibiotics which are very expensive, dangerous and not legal to use on plants. And the reality is they do not work as well as Dragons Blood.


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## PaphLover (Dec 14, 2015)

Yeah, I'm skeptical of the seller. I can't find any reviews online about his products and the only testimonials are on his site.


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## PaphLover (Dec 14, 2015)

Justin said:


> you're looking good now. yes that looks like a new growth. good luck.




 Thanks!


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