# Paphs in China



## Gcroz (Jan 22, 2012)

Not sure if this is the right category to post this thread, but here goes.

I have had a chance to peruse the new _Orchids_ issue with the article from Perner about Paphs in China. In the article is a list of the taxa of Paphs from China. I admit I haven't had a chance to read the whole article, but could someone please explain why _hangianum_ isn't on the list?

It has been my understanding that the "legal" _hangianum_ plants coming from Perner originated from a site in China. If this is the case, wouldn't those plants be considered part of the accepted list of Chinsese paphs?

Or is it a situation of, " don't pay attention to that man behind the curtain"?


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## Roth (Jan 22, 2012)

just in few words. Hangianum, helenae, tranlienianum and jackii are always coming from Vietnam. They have been seen in China only in nurseries trading with vietnamese.


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## Gcroz (Jan 22, 2012)

Roth, thanks for your reply! That is what I had heard, but wasn't the justification for allowing _hangianum_ into the U.S. was that the species had been found "IN" China? Since China has a special status with the U.S., and presumably China verified the legality of the collection of the parent plants, the insinuation is that it was a backdoor deal to allow U.S. breeders to have the plant legally.

Is that the case?


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## NYEric (Jan 22, 2012)

Gcroz said:


> wasn't the justification for allowing _hangianum_ into the U.S. was that the species had been found "IN" China? ..Is that the case?


Hahahahhhahahahahahah! You are so funny. We have a big bridge here, would you like to buy some share in its ownership?! oke:


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## Gcroz (Jan 22, 2012)

NYEric said:


> Hahahahhhahahahahahah! You are so funny. We have a big bridge here, would you like to buy some share in its ownership?! oke:



Now,now Eric. I never said that I believed the story, just that was what was being spread around. oke:

Personally, I'd like to hear what really is going on, but I doubt anyone will go on record.


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## NYEric (Jan 22, 2012)

Worry not. In the next few years, the glorious People's Democracy will incorporate the lands of our cousins to the South into a harmonious cooperative. :evil:


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## Roth (Jan 23, 2012)

i went there in 2004 and discussed with one nursery who was doing paph export with cites for years. The price for the cites back then was 10000usd, period. They could arrange plants from burma (tigrinum) laos and vietnam (hangianum jackii helenae vietnamense...) as well because they could get reports that they occur in China. They had connexions with some cites scientifical authorities, who were the core of paphiopedilum smuggling at the same time.

So far the hangianum seen by Holger in a nursery came from Vietnam. There is intense trade from Vietnam to trade centers like malipo, wenshan...

Holger is the first one to publicly offer those species to westerners with cites. However there has been cites export already by another nursery ( the 10000usd one for each export permit, 4 paph species per permit max...) to Japan for some years. the japanese nursery does not want problems with japan authorities, but they sell only to rich japanese customers. They dont care about us cheapos... But they have cites for hangianum for about 5 years now.

Taiwanese had access to those cites hangianum for years shall they wish, but they did not feel any financial need to buy a cites that expensive, as only USA rejected their flasks and plants, and this is a market not worth 10000usd to legalize their plants for the us trade.


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