# how to deal with heat stress??



## smartie2000 (Jul 4, 2007)

I'm having some phrag problems right now. 

My two growth Phrag popowi (warscewiczianum) has lost many leaves recently. Leaves I had to pull off since they were rotting from the base. I think the oldest growth only has two leaves now, but the newer growth hasn't rotted yet. I am thinking it is from the heat we are getting since I only get this rot when there is a hot day. It's growing in a mixture of sphag and different rocks and gravel. It was growing so fast when I got it, but now it seems unhappy.

My wallisi doesn't have any problems. It is growing in medium bark.

Phrag Jersey (or besseae, whatever) has sent growths. one growth has died, second one soon to be rotted, but it is sending a third one. I'm not 100% sure if it is heat related on this one. If I don't correct it soon it will run out of places to send new growths. It's growing in sphag.

All three plants were on the same end of the shop light. My other phrags haven't had any problems, they are also on the same shoplight but closer to the middle. All phrags also sit near the humidifier.

How do you deal with this rotting? 
More air movement? I can place them closer to the muffin fan.

For now I have taken these two phrags out from underlights (they were underlights, near the humdifier, a muffin fan was installed on the other end of shop light) and it will be sitting next to a opened window for now to give it some air circulation. I'm leaving for over a week vaccation in a day. 
My plants will be under someone elses care who hasn't aquired a greenthumb yet. The rest of my plants will be set up underlights in my closet with a humidifier, fans turned off so he doesn't have to water all my plants.


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## Heather (Jul 4, 2007)

Not sure what your growing area looks like, but I would probably increase your airflow. A muffin fan is pretty small. 

I would also remove ANYTHING with any hint of rot. I say this mostly because you are going away. Rot can spread like wildfire. With you not there to watch, removing the affected areas and dusting with cinnamon should help some. If there's any way you can instruct the person who will be caring for them on what rot looks like, so they can remove anything in your stead that might arise, I'd make sure they can identify it.

Sounds like you have already isolated them and increased the air flow so that's a step in the right direction.

FWIW, popowii is known for this problem and besseaes don't like it warm and wet (in my experience) they start to ooze...


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## smartie2000 (Jul 4, 2007)

I just got PHYSAN 20 (I was told it is illegal in Canada too for some reason) but I have never used it before. Are phrags sensitive to this stuff?


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## litlsea (Jul 4, 2007)

*heat stress?*

Hi Fren,

I think Heather is on the right track here. Although it has been warm (75'F) the last few days in the greenhouse I think that the high humidity with all the rain lately and your small fan are contributing to your rot problem. You also need to watch with sphagnum because its good until all of a sudden it compacts and rots in fairly short order. I use a 16" fan in an 8X8 greenhouse running on high speed right through the summer and the plants love it.

Jack


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## Heather (Jul 4, 2007)

Oh yeah, I forgot about the sphag. Some people can grow besseae in it, but I wouldn't.


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## smartie2000 (Jul 4, 2007)

thanks for the quick responses. I will have to go to work soon. I can also pick up some cinnamin there.

The reason why I grow it sphag is b/c I thought they liked an acidic environment. My water is very alkaline so I decided on sphag since I don't get to use RO water all the time. Most of my other phrags are in sphag too like euca-bess (they are all hybrids). I actually don'y know why I don't use RO water since I do have it at home, maybe I'll start when I get my kovachii since they are so expensive. I gotta fix this mess up so that I can also grow kovachii properly too, they are cool growers too...

I should probably repot my popowii soon but I keep forgetting. I think the mix is not very good more me, but good for the previous owner. I thought wallisi was in a growing in a bark mixture that I thought was too coarse but it is sending roots like mad, and very happy. I hope popowii can do that too.

I hope to read more responses too tonight

I also found a local source for hydroponics finally too, if it is a technique that may potenially work better


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## litlsea (Jul 4, 2007)

*Physan 20 on Phrags*

Hi Fren,

You can use physan on adult phrags at a rate of 1 tablespoon(15ml) per 20 gallons of water. Soak entire plant for 10 minutes. Repot in physan soaked new compost. This is what I do for rot. Seedlings however are hit and miss. Some do not like physan at all. (Kovachii for instance). You can use it at a rate of 2 tablespoons per 20 gallons as a preventative spray once a month on adults.


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## Candace (Jul 4, 2007)

All my phrags loved spag. though I recently turned them over to s/h. Your problem, Fren, like the others have said is the combination of the heat, lack of air movement and humidity/water acting together to create rot. These 3 components acting together are what's causing your problem. Up the air flow, and try to not let water sit in the leaf axils. I grew them all in spag and never had rot problems, but I've got very good air movement.

For heat stress in the summer, today is supposed to be 104, so it will most likely get into the low to mid 90's in my greenhouse....I add some Protekt to my watering. It's made by Dynagrow and is formulated for stress protection. Can't prove it does anything, but my plants handle the high temps. well... This won't help your rot issue however, and I'd guess once you make some corrections your plants will be happier.


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## Kyle (Jul 4, 2007)

Besseae like to be cool. You can try putting it into a clay pot. The evaporation from the pot will help to cool the root zone. Up the air rate to increase the evaporation rate (and cooling).

Kyle


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## Hien (Jul 5, 2007)

smartie2000 said:


> I just got PHYSAN 20 (I was told it is illegal in Canada too for some reason) but I have never used it before. Are phrags sensitive to this stuff?



I don't understand the reasoning here.
You said it is heat stress, so why do you want to use PHYSAN. Does this stuff cool the plants?


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## smartie2000 (Jul 5, 2007)

Sorry Hien,
Physan 20 was for just incase the the rot on the popowii was fungal/bacterial.
I forgot to pick up cinnamin because I was too concentrated on work...oh well


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## NYEric (Jul 5, 2007)

I use physan only when I've got a leaf w/ rot, a few drops in a 1/2 gallon of water combined w/ a few drops of OGW Dragon's blood. I used to clean w/ physan and the fumes can be very nasty, but it works. BTW it's illegal in NYC also!


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## litlsea (Jul 5, 2007)

*Physan 20 dosage*

Hi Fren,

I did not read my own post on dosage yesterday and its wrong. Its 1 tablespoon (15 ml) of physan 20 per gallon of water. Without seeing a picture it is immpossible to say for sure that it is rot but using the physan will not hurt the plant but may save it. Sorry about the haywire dosage but if you've already mixed it just use it for watering water. It will be fine.

Jack


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## smartie2000 (Jul 18, 2007)

RIP Phrag popowii
when I got home the first fan had already rotted, and then also the second one... I decided to dump it. I still have phrag wallisii to keep me satisfied.

I heard that the days here were very hot too. The garden plants in the yard have been fried, including one cyp parviflorum that was not watered. It will live but has lost some growths.

And phrag besseae/Jersey is starting a new leaf in a growth that looked like it was dying. Its probably happier next to the opened window.

I need to get dragons blood now, reading its success. I also read not to pull leaves off, but to cut, in another thread with similar issues. I've been pulling leaves...


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## likespaphs (Jul 18, 2007)

sorry to hear you lost them.
yeh, the cutting vs pulling is absolulely correct as the surface will be able to heal itself more easily than a ripped surface.
i think that if you only have one little fan then there isn't nearly enough air circulation. if you stick with muffin fans, i'd add two or three of them...


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## NYEric (Jul 18, 2007)

likespaphs said:


> yeh, the cutting vs pulling is absolulely correct as the surface will be able to heal itself more easily than a ripped surface.


I disagree, I have lost plants to cutting. If you can cut to retain a leaf, i.e. only a section is damaged, do that and then treat the cut edge. I use Captan, better living thru chemistry. If the whole leaf is damaged or dead then I pull them off at the base. P.S. Glenn Decker taught me this.


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## gonewild (Jul 18, 2007)

I think Fren was referring to a post I made about treating infected tissue with Dragon's Blood. I recommended not to pull off a leaf that was infected near the base but rather to cut it and then split it open to let in air and treatment. The idea is to not cause any tissue damage to the adjoining leaves by tearing off the damaged leaf which could cause an infection to spread more easily. After the cut leaf has dried out it should be removed from the base by pulling it off.

Leaves that are dead or dying on a healthy plant should be removed by pulling them off and not by cutting.


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## CLMoss (Jul 18, 2007)

Wow! I am glad that you cleared that up. I have been pulling leaves for years, and never had a problem. But, only older leaves. My first problem started this spring when I repotted my 'Cardinale.' New growth started to die back. I am now treating with Phyton. I don't know much about the DB, however it looks like I will need to add it to my arsenal. 

C


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## gonewild (Jul 18, 2007)

CLMoss said:


> Wow! I am glad that you cleared that up. I have been pulling leaves for years, and never had a problem. But, only older leaves. My first problem started this spring when I repotted my 'Cardinale.' New growth started to die back. I am now treating with Phyton. I don't know much about the DB, however it looks like I will need to add it to my arsenal.
> 
> C



Dragon's Blood is proving to be very effective in treating bacterial infections. It has zero negative environmental effects and causes no damage to plant tissue unlike Phyton or Physan or other dangerous synthetic compounds.


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## likespaphs (Jul 18, 2007)

NYEric said:


> I disagree, I have lost plants to cutting. If you can cut to retain a leaf, i.e. only a section is damaged, do that and then treat the cut edge. I use Captan, better living thru chemistry. If the whole leaf is damaged or dead then I pull them off at the base. P.S. Glenn Decker taught me this.



you wanna take this outside? i mean, um....
i agree that it should be cut if it's only part of a leaf and to pull off dead/damaged leaves. the only time i don't is when i'm afraid i'll break off the crown from the roots...
sometimes i rip a leaf down the middle and pull them off to make it easier to take them off each side.
if you cut, though, it is important to sterilize the cutting tools between plants.


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## Candace (Jul 18, 2007)

I'm a ripper, not a cutter. But, I have gotten a little over zealous a few times and ripped a whole growth off.


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## Renegayde (Jul 18, 2007)

I went to rip a leaf off a plant the other day and NOOOOO I broke the whole plant off at the crown so guess that one is dead now


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## CLMoss (Jul 18, 2007)

Yep, I learned that also from Glen... But, I have been lucky. I never had a plant with such a bad bacterial problem. I always used a little cinnamon to prevent the chance of a problem, or cauterized the wound. This may be a old method; however, it has work for me for a long time.

C


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## Candace (Jul 18, 2007)

Renegayde, you'd be surprised! Water it like normal and if it's got any live eyes left it could grow back for you. I've had this happen a couple of times where either a growth rotted off etc. and it survived.


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## gonewild (Jul 18, 2007)

So take a poll....
How many plants have been killed by ripping off leaves vs. cutting off leaves.

Break um or infect um which is better?

I'm a ripper.
:evil:


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## Renegayde (Jul 18, 2007)

I was always afraid to rip them off till I was at Marilyns <Windy Hill> and she was picking me out some plants and if there was a leaf that was a little dicolored or anything she would just rip it off so after that I was like ok.....so I been ripping since then....till the other day now I am afraid think I may let the leaves get a little dryer next time before I rip it......Candace hmmmm guess I will just water it and see what happens this was a seedling I had been having a bit of trouble with it has never grown good since it came out of compot it is Paph Niobe and I believe out of the orginal 4 I bought in compot there are only 2 left now perhaps 3 if this one grows back out


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## Candace (Jul 18, 2007)

Oh, I thought you were talking about a phrag. Sorry! Phrags are much easier to resurrect and faster growing. If you've got no growths left on your paph odds are it's not going to survive. Even if you have a live eye and baby that sucker to death to get it going, you're looking at a several years until it would be large enough to bloom. Whereas I've been able to get an eye on a phrag grow to blooming size in a year.


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## NYEric (Jul 18, 2007)

I've been able to grow paphs w/ no roots by putting them in sphagnum, until they grow new roots.


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## Candace (Jul 18, 2007)

Yes, but Eric she's got roots and no growthsoke: Spag it and see what happens, but it might just be better to buy another and forget this one as a bad dream:>


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## Heather (Jul 18, 2007)

I'm a ripper. Never had a problem. Knock on wood!


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jul 18, 2007)

Physan is illegal in NY? Physan and RD-20 is just ammonium chloride variations...the same stuff is sold in spray bottles as a counter disnfectant...Oh, I also tear.....Take care, Eric


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## rdhed (Jul 19, 2007)

Yes, I also tear. Physan 20 was banned here in Nebraska this past spring but only until the retailers purchased a special handling license for $200. Some of them just decided not to carry it then. Our state government at work.


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## NYEric (Jul 19, 2007)

likespaphs said:


> if you cut, though, it is important to sterilize the cutting tools between plants.


I always rub the cutting edges of my scissors w/ Physan between cuts. I'm a flagrant scofflaw!


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## Candace (Jul 19, 2007)

I'm telling...


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## NYEric (Jul 19, 2007)

It's probably legal where you are; I'll just say you brought it to me!


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