# Deflasking Help Needed!!!



## Bolero (Sep 14, 2009)

Hi guys, I bought a flask of *Paph helenae ‘Crown’ x Yosemite Moon ‘C.H. #4’* yesterday and got it discounted due to the flask being shaken up and needing to be potted up straight away. I haven't had a lot of luck with Cattleya hybrids needing deflasking so I am trying something different with the Paphs this time.

I have 22 seedlings, all of them have been potted into individual 2 inch pots. The mix consists of fine bark, perlite, a small amount of charcoal. With two pots due to the plants having a lack of roots I have put them into sphagnum moss and perlite (sponge rock).

I have watered them with rain water and haven't given any fertiliser (and I won't at this stage). I have brought them inside my home and have misted the leaves lightly as well to keep humidity up. I have them in a seedling tray and have put the tray into a plastic box.

Should I mist regularly? Should I leave the lid off or on the plastic box to keep humidity up? Can I water more often than with normal plants or should I be more careful with watering? Have a planted them to deep?

Any suggestions are appreciated, I really want to have some success with these. Photos of them are as follows:






















Thanks

Darren


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## TyroneGenade (Sep 14, 2009)

Hello,

I pretty much murdered my roebelenii seedlings so I'm not going to offer any advice other than I think I killed mine by deflasking into sphagnum and then keeping that sphagnum too wet.

Here is a link that may be useful to you: http://www.ladyslipper.com/compot2.html

Good luck!


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## NYEric (Sep 14, 2009)

I agree, leave the flasks to others!


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## Clark (Sep 14, 2009)

Great looking plants!

My first flask I used a bark mix. Not good for me. Switched to sphagnum and see much better results. I mist often during the first month. Not towards night though.
I went with Troy Meyers method-

https://lab.troymeyers.com/flasking/article.php?about=Flaskling-Care


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## paphjoint (Sep 14, 2009)

Keep them warm, bright & humid - are you sure its helenae ? does not look as helenae seedling- helenae seedlings looks pretty much as adult plants but smaller - yours looks like gratixianum or villosum - anyway good luck


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## SlipperFan (Sep 14, 2009)

I would be concerned about stagnant air in the box. Maybe a small fan for gentle air movement?


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## paphioboy (Sep 14, 2009)

I have not tried deflasking, but here's my 2 cents. I think they will do better in a shallower pot and planted together as a compot. I think those tall black pots that Aussie growers like to use are more likely to rot the roots off..


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## SlipperKing (Sep 14, 2009)

Most Flaskers put the whole mess in one 2" pot.......called a compot or community pot. Misting is good if you keep light on the watering. Watch for new root growth then increase water and back off on the missing.


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## paphreek (Sep 15, 2009)

Don't fuss over them so much! you could try putting the cover askew to raise the humidity slightly, if you think necessary. Fresh air, but no direct fan blowing on them. I never mist. I water the media as it needs it, just like any other plant, maybe paying a little closer attention to make sure they don't dry out completely. I also watch for any bacterial infections due to broken leaves. Be watchful, but RELAX!


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## John M (Sep 15, 2009)

paphjoint said:


> Keep them warm, bright & humid - are you sure its helenae ? does not look as helenae seedling- helenae seedlings looks pretty much as adult plants but smaller - yours looks like gratixianum or villosum - anyway good luck



They're not pure helenae, they're a hybrid. 

They look good; but, make sure that foliage dries quickly. Using an anti-damping off spray would be a good idea. I use "No-Damp"....works great at keeping pathogens at bay while seedlings aclimatize. 

BTW: I use the Antec Lab's method of compotting. It's WONDERFUL. It saves tons of time and (assuming the seedlings are good to begin with), virtually every seedling survives and thrives.


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## Bolero (Sep 15, 2009)

Yes it's meant to be helenae with a complex hybrid so hopefully they are the real thing. 

Thanks guys, I will do some more investigating on the compotting. I probably should have done that to begin with. I have 5 other flasks so I'm hoping to get this right before I deflask those. Otherwise I might have to defer to someone else to do it for me.

Day 1 and no rot so far.....breath in, breath out, breath in, breath out.


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## paphioboy (Sep 15, 2009)

> Day 1 and no rot so far.....breath in, breath out, breath in, breath out.



So now we're getting daily updates eh..?


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## Bolero (Sep 16, 2009)

paphioboy said:


> So now we're getting daily updates eh..?



Ok if you insist.

Day two - no rot.

lol


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## Roth (Sep 16, 2009)

The only thing that is perfectly foolproof in nearly any media to deflasks paphs is Subdue 2E metalaxyl, not the mefenoxam Subdue. With that stuff, there is absolutely no more seedlings rot.

Subdue controls phytophthora, that looks exactly like a "bacterial rot", but is not at all. Bacterial rot is in fact quite rare in paphs, except brachys. See my other post for excellent pictures of many diseases and pests...


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## Bolero (Sep 17, 2009)

Sanderianum said:


> The only thing that is perfectly foolproof in nearly any media to deflasks paphs is Subdue 2E metalaxyl, not the mefenoxam Subdue. With that stuff, there is absolutely no more seedlings rot.
> 
> Subdue controls phytophthora, that looks exactly like a "bacterial rot", but is not at all. Bacterial rot is in fact quite rare in paphs, except brachys. See my other post for excellent pictures of many diseases and pests...



Sounds like a great product, I will check to see if I can obtain that product in Australia, I don't think I've seen it around before.

Thanks for the tip!!!

Day 3 - No rot.


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## cnycharles (Sep 17, 2009)

yes, subdue 2e works very well but has been replaced with subdue maxx, which has very little phytotoxicity and you only need a tiny amount to mix in with the drench water. for a few gallons it might even be difficult to use a tiny enough amount. it's water based and is able to mix better in water and with other chemicals in solution. I read online that you would use half of what was required if you were using subdue 2e, and controls all of the same diseases


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## Bolero (Sep 19, 2009)

Thanks for the help guys, they seedlings are still growing well.


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## Clark (Sep 19, 2009)

Do the 'chids grow faster/better/stronger if they are in compot???
I'm talking about the concept of competing for light.

Another thought about compot I discovered- less space, less wasted 'soil' . Not an issue on the first couple of flasks, but as the addiction... ...the economic factors become more explicit. Good luck!


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## Bolero (Sep 20, 2009)

Day 6 no rot.

First time to fertilise with a weak mix today, the plants haven't changed much but I can tell they are a bit stronger than when I removed them from the flask. I have the container near a bright window but no direct sun. I will start to introduce them to the shade house in another week or so.


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## Roth (Sep 20, 2009)

cnycharles said:


> yes, subdue 2e works very well but has been replaced with subdue maxx, which has very little phytotoxicity and you only need a tiny amount to mix in with the drench water. for a few gallons it might even be difficult to use a tiny enough amount. it's water based and is able to mix better in water and with other chemicals in solution. I read online that you would use half of what was required if you were using subdue 2e, and controls all of the same diseases



Frankly I read the same and have been told by many, including the manufacturer, that the Subdue MAXX is far better than the old subdue, but I strongly disagree...
Subdue is metalaxyl, a mixture of isomers, the "new subdue" is Mefenoxam, supposedly the "active" isomer from the metalaxyl mixture. 

When I changed from subdue 2e to subdue Maxx, the latter did not control anything, in my growing conditions, even increasing the rate of mefenoxam to the one of the metalaxyl, so I still use the old metalaxyl...


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## Bolero (Sep 21, 2009)

7 days and not rot. Almost home free hopefully.


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## TyroneGenade (Sep 25, 2009)

Hi,

I'm going to hijack this thread with my own deflasking questions.

I just delfaksed some Paph roebelenii seedlings. It was a rush job as I discovered a fungal colony in one corner of the flask. But its spring and they are sending out new roots so maybe I will be luckier this time... They were deflasked into a mix of vermiculite (3), fine pine bark (3), coral chips (1) and some sphagnum moss (1) into a 10 cm pot. I use such sized pots because I can slip a decapitated coke bottle over it and make a mini hot house to keep the humidity high. The pots are standing ontop of my fishtank stand (so they are warm during the day from the fishtank lights) opposite a south-west facing window (I'm in the S. hemisphere so this fine). I followed the Antec Lab method of leaving the agar on. I got two pots from the one flask.

For my adult plants I use 550 mL tall food containers of clear plastic. I punch wholes into the sides of these to ensure good air circulation in the medium so it dries fast rather than letting the roots get soggy (a big problem with generous watering me). 

I have potted the seedlings into clear plastic pots and am wondering if I should punch wholes into the sides of these as well to ensure the medium doesn't stay soggy and the roots get good air. This is my last flask and I don't want to lose these.

Any advice?


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## Bolero (Sep 25, 2009)

I can't see anything wrong with punching holes in the sides, with some of my plants I have slits running up the sides of the pots (they come this way) which helps the medium dry out more evenly.

Some of the questions you have asked I can't answer but I would be interested to hear others responses.

Day 12 and no rot.


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## etex (Nov 19, 2009)

Nice thread. Good info and sources for more info on compots.


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