# Some type of rot



## papheteer (Apr 25, 2013)

Saw this on one of my weak plants tonight and took this leaf off right away. It's not wet but it's not dried up either. Do you guys know what it is? Is it airborne? Should I destroy the plant right away? It's very small and weak but it's an uncommon cross. Paph. Todd Hasegawa x Norito Hasegawa bought from Orchid Inn early 2010 I think, has been struggling since. LOL


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## gonewild (Apr 25, 2013)

Was the leaf turning yellow before the base decayed?


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## papheteer (Apr 25, 2013)

Yes the leaf was yellow already.


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## ALToronto (Apr 25, 2013)

Sounds like an opportunistic infection on a weak leaf.

I've had good success with drug store hydrogen peroxide drying up rot very quickly. I'd spray the plant with H2O2 and isolate it to see if it recovers first.


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## NYEric (Apr 25, 2013)

If you have either Dragon's blood/lime powder, I'd try those.


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## gonewild (Apr 25, 2013)

papheteer said:


> Should I destroy the plant right away?



No


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## Paphman910 (Apr 25, 2013)

Does the black part of leaf have a funny smell to it?

If it does, chances are that it has rot and should be treated with fungicide/bactericide.


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## papheteer (Apr 25, 2013)

Wayne, i didnt really smell it. Went to the garbage bin right away.


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## gonewild (Apr 25, 2013)

This is a similar to the problem Orchid Boy posted recently Rot????.

In both his case and yours the plants are weak but this condition happens to strong plants also. I think it relates to environmental problems and that includes nutrition also. 

It is my opinion that this happens to some plants and not others because of genetics. Some plants have more tolerance or resistance to less than perfect conditions than others.There is a very good possibility that this problem is a result of......_potassium excess_.... or other nutrient imbalances as discussed within the K-lite threads.


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## Trithor (Apr 26, 2013)

I have seen this problem when you pull off a dead leaf too early. If the old brown leaf does not come away without any tugging, it leaves a wound on the leaf base of the leaf above it (I suspect) and a few days later a patch of brown starts, spreading up the leaf. Although I try not to remove old leaves too early, sometimes it is impossible to stop myself, bit like picking a scab


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## Rick (Apr 26, 2013)

Was a new root or growth starting at the base of this leaf axial?


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## lepetitmartien (Apr 26, 2013)

The necrotic zone could be:
- anthracnose,, for the record, but I like the other possibilities better
- too much salts/fertilizer
- lack of calcium
in complement of the other hypothesis.


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## Trithor (Apr 26, 2013)

lepetitmartien said:


> The necrotic zone could be:
> - anthracnose,, for the record, but I like the other possibilities better
> - too much salts/fertilizer
> - lack of calcium
> in complement of the other hypothesis.



When have you seen excess salts manifest in the leaf axil as opposed to leaf tip?


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## papheteer (Apr 26, 2013)

Rick said:


> Was a new root or growth starting at the base of this leaf axial?



2 new roots came out of one side of the base of the plant.


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## Paphman910 (Apr 26, 2013)

papheteer said:


> 2 new roots came out of one side of the base of the plant.



That is a good sign!

When roots break through the leaf, sometimes under not ideal conditon, the leaf gets rot.


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## NYEric (Apr 26, 2013)

How many/ how large are the remaining leaves?


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## papheteer (Apr 26, 2013)

NYEric said:


> How many/ how large are the remaining leaves?



Eric, a stunted one that stopped growing at 2/3 inch and there's a new one emerging.


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## Trithor (Apr 27, 2013)

Sounds like whatever the problem was, it was self limiting and the plant is fine?


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## Rick (Apr 27, 2013)

Paphman910 said:


> That is a good sign!
> 
> When roots break through the leaf, sometimes under not ideal conditon, the leaf gets rot.



Found this out from a plant pathologist concerning Erwinia infections. When new roots or shoots are trying to come through, the plant produces an enzyme that starts degrading/digesting the cells in the old leaf in the path of the new growth. This self imposed decay can be taken advantage of as a food source for opportunistic pathogens. Loosing the old leaf is pretty normal. If the rest of the plant is weak or imbalanced, the pathogens can go beyond the bounds of the lysed area and attack the whole plant.


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## lepetitmartien (Apr 27, 2013)

Trithor said:


> When have you seen excess salts manifest in the leaf axil as opposed to leaf tip?


This is the axil? If so, nevermind. 

On the odour tip :
- if it smells bad, think bacteria
- if it smells mushroom, think fungus

Stupid and simple but working for some situations.


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## Rick (Apr 27, 2013)

lepetitmartien said:


> This is the axil? If so, nevermind.
> 
> On the odour tip :
> - if it smells bad, think bacteria
> ...



Yes Erwinia has a distinctive sickly sweet smell that is indicative of fermenting conditions.


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## papheteer (Apr 28, 2013)

Thanks for the info guys. The plant looks ok now. No sign of rot on what remains of the the plant. The moment i see one again i will throw it away.


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## Rick (Apr 28, 2013)

papheteer said:


> The moment i see one again i will throw it away.



Unless your collection is huge and you have plenty to through away, experiment with something.

I use dragons blood and cinnamon for those tough cases. Set it off to the side where you won't get overspray of water onto your other plants.

Also don't fool yourself into thinking that just because you don't see active infections, the bacteria aren't already lurking in the recesses of your pots.


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## papheteer (Apr 28, 2013)

Rick said:


> Unless your collection is huge and you have plenty to through away, experiment with something.
> 
> I use dragons blood and cinnamon for those tough cases. Set it off to the side where you won't get overspray of water onto your other plants.
> 
> Also don't fool yourself into thinking that just because you don't see active infections, the bacteria aren't already lurking in the recesses of your pots. :evil:



What I meant was when I see another sign of infection on the same plant. It's just too small to save.


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## Rick (Apr 28, 2013)

papheteer said:


> It's just too small to save.



I don't see as many sickies as I used too, but even the little ones can be a learning experience. I've had a few that lost complete original foliage, and come back from a new growth. But at some point the effort is certainly not worth it.


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## papheteer (Apr 28, 2013)

Yeah that's what I'm thinking too. Parvis are very slow growing even when very healthy. This small sickly plant could take 10 years to recover and maybe flower.


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## The Mutant (May 3, 2013)

lepetitmartien said:


> This is the axil? If so, nevermind.
> 
> On the odour tip :
> - if it smells bad, think bacteria
> ...


This was a great tip. Now I know that it is some sort of bacterial infection that my Phal. stuartiana has (I have suspected it, but it's always good to get some confirmation) and that I probably have to toss it. It reeks when I water it so this bacteria seems to have infected the entire plant. 

Sorry for hijacking the thread!


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