# sugar water?



## Stone (Dec 2, 2015)

Years ago, an orchid nurseryman suggested soaking some half dead orchids (not diseased but rootless and a little dried out) in sugar water to help stimulate them into growth. I never did try it.
Has anyone tried/heard of this??


----------



## Ozpaph (Dec 2, 2015)

Ive heard that too, but never tried it. I suppose most things arrive within days by post nowadays.


----------



## Brabantia (Dec 2, 2015)

On several occasions I read that one could watering a weakened Orchid with a water solution of honey.


----------



## naoki (Dec 2, 2015)

I think we talked about a related topic here:
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30667

I think Roy uses it for acclimation. Well, acclimation could be similar to dealing with half-dead. I was considering sucrose for acclimation after reading about the papers. Since then I saw a couple Japanese books mentioning sugar as the supplement for orchid fertilization scheme. But some web sites mentioned that it could be pretty touchy/risky (I forgot the details, but I think it was for Neo or Den. moniliforme).

So I'm curious about this topic, too.


----------



## valenzino (Dec 2, 2015)

All orchids I import from far bare rooted,or i buy wholesale after the shows,that are not potted/already rooted....I use it....
I do 2-3 days before potting,let them soak in different solutions and one of those is water with shugar(sometimes honey,liquit fructose,pure glucose etc...depending on availability in my Kitchen)...


----------



## Linus_Cello (Dec 2, 2015)

I tried it with an Eumilia Arias I bought from EYOF; it didn't make it after 2 years (tried growing s/h). I used dliuted molasses rather than sucrose.


----------



## eggshells (Dec 2, 2015)

I use molasses as well. Haven't really noticed any difference. Haven't really hurt anything either so I continue to use it. Supposed to increase microbial activity in soil? 

I also use it for worm tea brewing.


----------



## MaryPientka (Dec 2, 2015)

I remember reading about this in the 1980s-a combo of honey and superthrive.


----------



## TyroneGenade (Dec 2, 2015)

The sugar water would stimulate mycorrhizal fungi and actinomycete bacteria that will fix nitrogen and feed the plants. One nurseryman growing Disa would sow the seed and water with sugar water to stimulate the symbionts and get good germination.


----------



## gonewild (Dec 2, 2015)

How could it hurt?

Fermentation of the sugar may contribute to lowering pH. Maybe that is good or bad?

Free sugar on the plant may also inadvertently feed harmful bacteria and/or mold that could result in a pathogen increase.

How can it help?
If sugar was a benefit as a plant nutrient supplement there would probably be plenty of published data about it.... is there? I see some mention of organic growers using sugar as a weed killer.


----------



## gonewild (Dec 2, 2015)

Not exactly science but here is sugar info from an 8 year old Canabis forum, It actually very informative about sugar. It's too long to copy here so read it on the 8th post on this page.
One point that seems to be important is to not assume refined sugar is the same as molasses.

http://www.marijuanagrowing.eu/general-questions/using-sugar-glugose-when-flowering-t32889-10.html


----------



## Chicago Chad (Dec 2, 2015)

I have used this product for the last 6 years on all of my species
http://www.technaflora.com/indexProduct.php?ID=106


----------



## Happypaphy7 (Dec 2, 2015)

If I remember correctly, it was some Asian Orchid vendor websites. 
Royal Orchids, I think? They run two websites with different names but basically the same website layout, one for Aisa and one for USA.
This was years ago. 
I've never bought anything from them, but they were selling bareroot orchids and under the "unpacking the order" information, they recommended using brown sugar for soaking the newly arrived plants.
Overnight soaking or a few hours of soaking in brown sugar water before potting plants up. 
I always wondered why, but never tried myself.


----------



## Stone (Dec 2, 2015)

Interesting. I was thinking along the lines of...a plant needs to manufacture carbohydrates before it can carry out any function (such as forming roots) and if that plant has lost roots for some reason it's leaves dry out and will no longer able to absorb or use much light. So if we could introduce carbs (together with moisture) into the plant somehow, this might trigger a growth response? I guess there's only one way to find out...


----------



## Ozpaph (Dec 2, 2015)

gonewild said:


> Not exactly science but here is sugar info from an 8 year old Canabis forum, It actually very informative about sugar. It's too long to copy here so read it on the 8th post on this page.
> One point that seems to be important is to not assume refined sugar is the same as molasses.
> 
> http://www.marijuanagrowing.eu/general-questions/using-sugar-glugose-when-flowering-t32889-10.html



very interesting, thank-you.
Do you think it has much to offer in bark based or inorganic mixes we use for paphs?


----------



## Stone (Dec 2, 2015)

valenzino said:


> All orchids I import from far bare rooted,or i buy wholesale after the shows,that are not potted/already rooted....I use it....
> I do 2-3 days before potting,let them soak in different solutions and one of those is water with shugar(sometimes honey,liquit fructose,pure glucose etc...depending on availability in my Kitchen)...



So if you have used it more than once and continue, you must believe it works? Which form of sugar do you think is the best and how much for how long?


----------



## gonewild (Dec 2, 2015)

Ozpaph said:


> very interesting, thank-you.
> Do you think it has much to offer in bark based or inorganic mixes we use for paphs?



I dont think so. (my thought). I just cant see how the plant can utilize it well enough to make it worth the effort. In that link it does mention that it has an chelating effect but there are better ways to get that done like with seaweed or citric acid. The idea that sugar will encourage beneficial fungi and bacteria seems like it is negated by the possibility it may also encourage detrimental organisms. Sugar may very well encourage organisms that cause rapid breakdown of the bark media.

The one time I did try sugar I got was an increase of ants.


----------



## gonewild (Dec 2, 2015)

Stone said:


> Interesting. I was thinking along the lines of...a plant needs to manufacture carbohydrates before it can carry out any function (such as forming roots) and if that plant has lost roots for some reason it's leaves dry out and will no longer able to absorb or use much light. So if we could introduce carbs (together with moisture) into the plant somehow, this might trigger a growth response? I guess there's only one way to find out...



I dont think the roots have the mechanism to transport carbohydrates. And doubtful the plants can use carbs that they did not produce themselves within their system. 
I wonder what affect coating the leaves with a sugar solution may have on the leaf functions. Is there an osmotic effect where the sugar may actually pull nutrients out of the leaf?

Using sugar to feed bacteria that will fix nitrogen would be a very inefficient method. It is probably much simpler and more cost effective to add nitrogen.
Besides sugar contains unwanted extra potassium. oke:


----------



## gonewild (Dec 2, 2015)

Here is a lot of discussion, some of it might even be true. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=242428


----------



## Ozpaph (Dec 3, 2015)

gonewild said:


> The one time I did try sugar I got was an increase of ants.



which bring scale etc etc - damned ants


----------



## myxodex (Dec 3, 2015)

Interesting idea. My concern is the same as what Lance has said, that weakened plants may not cope with the extra microbial growth. 

Possibly, a wash in a mild disinfectant , followed by a sucrose + fert (NO3) soak and then sphag 'n bag ... and repeat a over a few days before planting out. The reason I suggest a NO3 only nutrient supplement is that the majority of microbes do not use NO3 efficiently as a N source, and so this might at least limit this problem.

I was wondering also about sugar uptake and thought of orchid seed germination media in which sucrose (or glucose) is a major and essential ingredient. So seeds and protocorms can take up and metabolise sugar. A bit of literature research indicates that plants can take up sucrose, glucose and fructose from both leaves and roots.

Sugar uptake from root in rice seedlings; http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23167196
Another paper (also see refs cited therein); http://jxb.oxfordjournals.org/content/47/7/893.full.pdf
Glucose, but not mannitol (cannot be metabolised), in nutrient solution can increase NO3 uptake from roots of soybean seedlings and even allow NO3 reduction and assimilation in the dark, which normally shuts down due to lack of carbohydrate supply and thus carbon skeletons for N assimilation. So adding a bit of NO3 and K (uptake also stimulated by sugar) could be beneficial for plant recovery.


----------



## myxodex (Dec 3, 2015)

This discussion also brought the amino acid L-proline to mind. There has been a lot of interest in this one as a stress alleviator for plants, and it does seem to be an interesting candidate for addition to a rescue solution. It does seem to be too good to be true. Exgoneous proline application has been shown to help plants cope with stresses from heat, cold, osmotic stress and dehydration, salinity, heavy metal toxicity. It helps dehydrated plants recover turgor (yep ... viagra for plants! ), it can rejuvenate and stimulate germination in tied old pollen and has been used to increase the vase life of cut flowers. It seems to act as an osmolyte, antioxidant, protector of proteins and membranes, metal chelator and even an efficient energy source in certain processes (germination, pollen tube growth and flower stalk growth) in which endogenous levels are naturally very high. Owing to it's high levels in pollen, proline can be found in honey to varing extents.
This might also be useful in misting solutions for orchids at shows where ambient humidity, temperature, etc. are not ideal,... or for deflasking seedlings. There just has to be a down side to this one. Yep,... it's not that easily available (can be found at online nutrient supplement vendors) and it's not cheap either. It can also be toxic at concentrations above 4g/L in some circumstances, although it's generally effective below 1g/L.
Review here: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.4161/psb.21949


----------



## valenzino (Dec 3, 2015)

Stone said:


> So if you have used it more than once and continue, you must believe it works? Which form of sugar do you think is the best and how much for how long?



Plants can uptake only simple Carbs(most simple and smaller molecule possible)...so best is pure fructose,glucose etc...
In my opinion the utility of this process is small but helps...
I leave the plants compleately under water untill i see small boubbles forming in the underleaves(means that stomata opened)...sometimes also 6-8 hours....during the process i move them out for few seconds when i see the boubbles....a small part of those Carbs can go through and just help repairing and destressing the plant.....
I always done test in empirical way and noticed that plants treated have recovered faster than other not treated(some species from same batch)...

After doing the treatment i always well wash away all possible shugar remainings to prevent particularly undesired Fungi infections,as the newly imported plants have always micro damages and a weak immunitary system...

I do same the day after with a mix of other products(thats make much more difference in plants recovery) such as algae,fish,humics,fulvics,amminos etc...

To do all treatments is important to check the PH that must be around 6-6,5 to have best results and no damage risks


----------



## gonewild (Dec 3, 2015)

valenzino said:


> I always done test in empirical way and noticed that plants treated have recovered faster than other not treated(some species from same batch)...



When you make this comparison how ware the untreated plants treated?
no treatment?
soaked in pure water?
soaked in fertilizer water?


----------



## Stone (Dec 3, 2015)

myxodex;562674
[QUOTE said:


> I was wondering also about sugar uptake and thought of orchid seed germination media in which sucrose (or glucose) is a major and essential ingredient. So seeds and protocorms can take up and metabolise sugar. A bit of literature research indicates that plants can take up sucrose, glucose and fructose from both leaves and roots.



Yes it seems they certainly can take up sugars. The method of application would need to be right such as washing after soaking as Valenzino suggests.


----------



## Stone (Dec 3, 2015)

valenzino said:


> Plants can uptake only simple Carbs(most simple and smaller molecule possible)...so best is pure fructose,glucose etc...
> In my opinion the utility of this process is small but helps...
> I leave the plants compleately under water untill i see small boubbles forming in the underleaves(means that stomata opened)...sometimes also 6-8 hours....during the process i move them out for few seconds when i see the boubbles....a small part of those Carbs can go through and just help repairing and destressing the plant.....
> I always done test in empirical way and noticed that plants treated have recovered faster than other not treated(some species from same batch)...
> ...



Thanks Valenzino. This proceedure helps a lot. I think I will try with a few seedlings which do not seem to want to move. Perhaps a fungicide dip (like wettable sulphur) after washing may help to keep away some possible problems...


----------



## Ozpaph (Dec 3, 2015)

valenzino said:


> Plants can uptake only simple Carbs(most simple and smaller molecule possible)...so best is pure fructose,glucose etc...
> In my opinion the utility of this process is small but helps...
> I leave the plants compleately under water untill i see small boubbles forming in the underleaves(means that stomata opened)...sometimes also 6-8 hours....during the process i move them out for few seconds when i see the boubbles....a small part of those Carbs can go through and just help repairing and destressing the plant.....
> I always done test in empirical way and noticed that plants treated have recovered faster than other not treated(some species from same batch)...
> ...



very interesting observation, thank-you


----------

