# reblooming phrags



## philoserenus (Feb 2, 2009)

Hey guys, 

Ｉ have the temperature drop 24/26*C daytime to 16*C nighttime (which is >10*F). i've added lights to supplement for wintertime darkness--13hrs. water twice a week, fertilize whenever i remember, and i still haven't seen bud =( they are mature plants. any ideas or hints?

Thanks


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## SlipperFan (Feb 2, 2009)

Which ones do you have? 
I keep track of when mine bloom. Some have bloomed 2x within a year, others seem to take more than a year to bloom again.


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## parvi_17 (Feb 2, 2009)

Most of my Phrags bloom reliably at the same time each year, although I've found that long-petalled types are slower growing. I don't see anything wrong with your conditions, but I grow most of mine in S/H and I have winter temps of around 21 C high/15 C low and summer temps of around 30 C high/20 C low. I don't fertilize my Phrags very often and when I do I do it quite weak, with tap water. I always otherwise use RO water and grow under lights and in a west window with equal success.


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## philoserenus (Feb 2, 2009)

hmm... weird... well if they dun bloom, then i'll just hafta keep on trying... and maybe i'll even weather then outside this spring/summer/fall. 
i have phrag conchiferum, giganteum, maria glanz.


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## NYEric (Feb 2, 2009)

How do you know they're mature; how many growths?


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## philoserenus (Feb 2, 2009)

the giganteum bloomed before when i got it and its new lead is the one that's supposively ready to bloom. the conchiferum has 2 growths, and compared to a friend's, it looks skinny at the base but itz definitely got the leaf span, and both grows are the same size now. the maria is immature for sure.


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## NYEric (Feb 3, 2009)

I'd recommend a little more fertilizer and time.


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## parvi_17 (Feb 3, 2009)

I'm pretty sure that giganteum and Conchiferum are pretty slow growing. I would follow Eric's advice and hopefully before long you will have blooms!


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## Ernie (Feb 3, 2009)

I usually blame not enough light on lack of blooming. Extend your supplemental light duration IMO. No need to go beyond 16 h. What sort of supp light is it? Wattage? How much natural light do you get? 

-Ernie


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## philoserenus (Feb 3, 2009)

maybe the light could be an issue. 2tube 40W each 13hrs about 5" from leaf. even though i have a south facing window, in toronto. there are very few days in every month that we actually are able to get some sunshine. but when there is, they get sun. otherwise. just lights. if a sunny day, then bright shade from about 9am until 4pm.

i'll be patient, not like im in a rush anyways.


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## goldenrose (Feb 3, 2009)

Did you start supplementing light back in October?


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## Ernie (Feb 3, 2009)

philoserenus said:


> maybe the light could be an issue. 2tube 40W each 13hrs about 5" from leaf. even though i have a south facing window, in toronto. there are very few days in every month that we actually are able to get some sunshine. but when there is, they get sun. otherwise. just lights. if a sunny day, then bright shade from about 9am until 4pm.



Phrags like light for the most part. You certainly wouldn't make them mad by doubling the number of tubes. It's darn near impossible to burn leaves with fluors. Your distance sounds good. You might want to buy a light meter to see what that window is contributing. Light meters are a good investment. Get a digital one, not the cheap photocell ones (battery-less). You should be able to find them for under $100- about what you'd pay for two or three nice blooming size phrags. 

-Ernie


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## philoserenus (Feb 4, 2009)

i started supplementing the lights in December. i will consider doubling up the light another time b/c i don't want to bring up more issues with my parents xp 
maybe when i move out for school in another few years or if i start working full-time. but some more blooming plants will definitely help me show my parents that what i'm doing yields something, LoL!!


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## Ernie (Feb 4, 2009)

If you've only been in your current situation for a month or two, it could just be a matter of patience. 

-Ernie


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## philoserenus (Feb 5, 2009)

**nods** i guess patience and more TLC will be the active formula. thanks guys for all you input.


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## toddybear (Feb 5, 2009)

Maybe its a Canadian thing.....my phrags grow like crazy...many with 3 and 4 growths but they never bloom. I NEVER get them to bloom on a single growth. Those that have bloomed (and they are very few) had 3 growths before they bloomed. I had three spike recently, but they blasted. Considering the size of the plants, I think I will slowly replace them with paphs....at least they do bloom regularly for me. I've only ever had 1 paph blast but so far I've had only 4 phrags bloom, 5 blast and the other 10 nothing. My Bouley Bay has a 24" leaf spread and several others close to 20"....and to think I wouldn't grow roths and the like because they get too big and several of my phrags are just as large....live and learn!


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## Jorch (Feb 5, 2009)

Weird Todd, many of my phrag blooms on single growth! I put them out in the balcony and they get bright light throughout the day, even some direct sun in the morning. They do spike in the fall though, although the color is often not as saturated since the temperature is not cool enough to bring out the best in colors. 

Perhaps we can trade! I find my phrags are so much more reliable bloomers than my paphs! oke:


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## smartie2000 (Feb 5, 2009)

I agree with Jorch. so far only young single growth besseae var flavum and schlimii have blasted on me, but the rest have not.

Increase lights! I switched to metal halides and they started budding up. I think my phrags are better bloomers (I have double as many paphs to phrags yet I have about the same number of paphs and phrags blooming)


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## toddybear (Feb 6, 2009)

Maybe I'm jinxed...I now consider phrags my nemisis group. Recently spiked but blasted included a single growth Evening Blaze (I knew I could not get it to bloom on a single growth!), a double growth Inti's Tears, a triple growth Hanne Popow flavum and a triple growth Don Wimber (it bloomed for me last year!). The others typically produce a fan of 6-7 leaves, look like they should spike, then just send up a new growth. My paphs never do this...once a fan gets 6-7 leaves, I get a spike (notable exception is It's Doll which has its 11th leaf coming on the same fan!)...very frustrating. I can only assume I do not have enough light....guess they need more than paphs. Although having said that, I do have a couple of mature phrags among the regularly blooming oncidiums and they refuse to spike as well!


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## phrag guy (Feb 6, 2009)

I think they need higher intensity of light. I remember when the first Ruby Slippers came on the market and a few good growers in my area could not flower them. I moved mine closer to my big lights and bang flower spike. Same as the Firestorms some just need alot higher light value than others.


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## goldenrose (Feb 6, 2009)

toddybear said:


> .... I can only assume I do not have enough light....guess they need more than paphs. Although having said that, I do have a couple of mature phrags among the regularly blooming oncidiums and they refuse to spike as well!


 I'm probably going to be of no help but I'll try! ity: My first thought when I read your posts was WHAT? with the intergenerics & oncidiums you grow, you should be able to bloom phrags! I group my phrags according to light needs, some are with my multis, then there are those that are in lower light levels (MDC, Rosy Charm x bess, Hanne Popow & EY x Waunakee Sunset are in spike) than most of my other paphs. Both groups bloom regularly for me. What's your fertilizing schedule? If they're producing growths, is it too high in nitrogen? Some on this forum have said they don't fertilize & theirs bloom regularly.


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## Jorch (Feb 6, 2009)

Good to know, Russell! The Firestorm I got from you have a growth that is near maturity. I'll just move it outside in spring and hope it will spike with the higher light!

Goldenrose... *raise hands*.. I admit I am one of those growers who almost never fertilize my phrags. :sob: I fertlize maybe once a month in the summer? 1/4 strength of Dyna-gro orchid food.. and that's it. No fertilizer from October til next spring.. due to laziness. :sob: 

I'm thinking of selling/trading off my paphs for phrags in spring. Paphs don't like me as much as phrags do.. so I will find them a new (and hopefully better) home..


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## philoserenus (Feb 6, 2009)

this is getting to be a very interesting tread. but if you move out in the early spring, would it still be enough time for them to bloom--i mean will it be cool enough and stuff to help them initiate spikes and stuff and have them bloom by the summer?


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## Jorch (Feb 6, 2009)

They will spike when they feel like it.. lol~ :rollhappy: we are always at the mercy of mother nature.. can't force-bloom them. 

but regardless of when you move your plant outside (spring or summer), the temperature will most likely be lower than inside the house where they spent the whole winter, and the temperature fluctuation should also be higher.. so hopefully they will spike. *fingers crossed* I don't recall a slow growing spike from any of my phrags. usually I get flowers within 4-6 weeks of noticing a spike.


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## smartie2000 (Feb 6, 2009)

well I don't bloom oncidiums very well... (other than psychopsis and tolumia) hmmm. my huge sharry baby has never bloomed for maybe 5 years

I do wonder what can cause bud blast though. Is it when spikes get too cold?


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## Elena (Feb 6, 2009)

I'm reading this thread with interest because I've been growing my Jason Fischer for 18 months now and still no sign of a spike. I'm reluctant to buy more Phrags because they take up space and I don't want to end up with yet more plants that won't flower.

When people say "more light" what level are we talking about? Multi Paph level? Less? More?


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## smartie2000 (Feb 6, 2009)

All mine get cattleya level now, though I have bloomed some under lower light before (flourescent tubes). And lots of water!


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## Rick (Feb 6, 2009)

Elena said:


> I'm reading this thread with interest because I've been growing my Jason Fischer for 18 months now and still no sign of a spike. I'm reluctant to buy more Phrags because they take up space and I don't want to end up with yet more plants that won't flower.
> 
> When people say "more light" what level are we talking about? Multi Paph level? Less? More?



I've found it hard to generalize for all phrags and all temperatures. The best I could say is that many of my phrags seem to like cattleya level light, but not if they get to multi paph level temps. A few like richteri and lindleyanum seem to be getting much bigger and faster growth at phal level light (also with cooler temps). Keep in mind that cooler for me is 85 max. The multi paph side of the GH can get leaf temps in the 90's.


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## Elena (Feb 6, 2009)

Thanks guys. I had the JF under my CFLs where the Catts, multi Paphs and even my Ascda flower but the Phrag just ended up looking stressed. I figured it was too warm so moved it to an East facing window. It perked up there, grew a new growth but no flowers. I might see if I can move to a South facing window next.


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## NYEric (Feb 7, 2009)

Since a lot of paph species grow on the edge of rivers,m cliffs, or waterfalls they get a lot of light, water and mist. Hope that helps.


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## raymond (Feb 16, 2009)

Salvation , in terms of light, always look at the color and appearance of the leaves, if leaves are very long ca indicates the lack of light and color is not dark green but draw a little on the yellow which indicates the quantity for each of the right light


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