# HUMIDITY. How important is it really . .?



## NeoNJ (Jun 5, 2011)

I have alot of Paphs. About 20. Mostly species, some hybrids. I have read all the "cultural" info on these and am amazed that they seem to require High levels of humidity. I can provide Humidity levels at 50-60% but really no higher. 

Does anyone find Humidity levels to be a problem in growing and blooming paphs?

I have: Paph. lowii, haynaldianum, venustum, niveum, bellatulum, spiceranium, insigne, fairrieanum, charlesworthii; Paph. Jade Dragon, Lynleigh Koopowitz, Harold Koopowitz, Delrosi, Ho Chi Minh, Dellaina, Druid Spring, Leeanum, Vanda M. Pearman, Fumi's Delight.

I use supplemental fans, a cool-mist humidifer, and supplemental lighting with compact fluourescents, in addition to natural light on the windowsills
(SE and SW exposure).


----------



## goldenrose (Jun 5, 2011)

If they're growing & blooming then apparently they're comfortable with what you're giving them. There will be some plants that may not bloom out as well & the duration of the flower will be shorter in lower humidity.


----------



## paphreek (Jun 5, 2011)

50%-60% humidity and even lower worked fine for me when I grew in the house. If your humidity drops in the winter, as it does here in the frigid north, reduce the air movement somewhat as your humidity around the plants drop. The higher the humidity, the higher your air movement should be. As the humidity drops, reduce air movement proportionally.


----------



## Rick (Jun 5, 2011)

Humidity/temp/light all work together.

Under lights and indoors, which are relatively low(er) light levels and temps compared to GH potentials, the 50-60% range can work out ok. Especially for hybrids.

As Ross noted, humidity values can plummet in winter without resorting to additional enclosure and technology.

As Rose said, don't fix what ain't broken, but when I made the efforts to keep humidity higher than 50/60 (about 8 years ago), it was like a switch thrown on my collection. Things that did OK (or at least by my 2 years experience at the time) were doing good, did significantly better. There were many other species that were struggling or doing poorly (in my opinion) that took off like gangbusters. 

Seeing the difference between running from 30% (winter low) to 60% (summer best) to a constant 70-90% has convinced me to make humidity monitoring and control a priority.

After 10 years now, I spend less time watching the numbers and machines, and turning into a regular "it feels right" or "watch your plants" type of GH grower. So my "watch your plants" version would be a Vanda growing on a coat hanger in the bright corner, and a plaque mounted phal in the dark corner as my environmental control plants as to whether or not my basic heat/light/humidity levels are good.


----------



## emydura (Jun 5, 2011)

50-60% is still a pretty good level of humidity. I have real humidity problems in winter as the heating dries out the air (30-40%). This really affects the mottled leaf species. The stress causes many of them to flower on immature growths.

David


----------



## NYEric (Jun 5, 2011)

Fans can lower humidity. How are the roots?


----------



## W. Beetus (Jun 5, 2011)

50-60% is a good amount. I was growing mine in levels of about 30% for a few years, and they still bloomed. I would definitely not recommend levels that low, however.


----------



## Ernie (Jun 5, 2011)

It is my observation that if your Paphs have healthy, active root systems, and you water properly, your ~50% humidity will be just fine.


----------



## NeoNJ (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: HUMIDITY*

It's difficult to examine or observe roots on potted plants .... Most of the Paphs are multi-growth plants that obviously were well taken care of by the nurseries that grew them. I have not seen any 'root rot" problems thus far.
I'm going to keep them a little more on the dry side this time around ----
to much water is what killed most of my Paphs the last time I had a collection of them - but they were all large multi-floral Paphs. They grew and grew, but didn't "bloom and bloom" ..... typical of multiflorals who may take a year off from blooming, and/or they just really didn't have the number of mature growths necessary to bloom.


----------



## Ernie (Jun 6, 2011)

NeoNJ said:


> It's difficult to examine or observe roots on potted plants



If these are new acquisitions, you might want to knock them out of the pot just to check the roots out. It is a good time to repot anyway- lots of Paphs will send new roots in spring. IMO better to do this now than wait until fall/winter and have plants going down hill in old mix and into a root rest at the same time. 



NeoNJ said:


> Most of the Paphs are multi-growth plants that obviously were well taken care of by the nurseries that grew them.



I'm sure the nurseries took very good care of them! However, a windowsill is very different than a greenhouse! On a windowsill or in a light garden, we rely on very healthy roots to compensate for lower than desirable humidity. I've seen perfectly gorgeous plants with few/no roots grow and bloom in a greenhouse just because they were taking up moisture from the air. Greenhouse grown plants can sometimes mask that "the curtains don't match the carpet". Under lights/windowsill, you'll quickly notice the dye job.  :rollhappy:

Repotting will also give you a chance to put them in a consistent mix that you are familiar with. 

Certainly not saying your plants are rootless!!! Just trying to stress how important roots are to non-greenhouse growers. 

You also need to water properly. It is very easy on a windowsill/under lights to simply dribble a little water on the plants once in a while. You want to drench the heck out of them when you do water. Attempts to keep the windowsill from getting all messed up with water will lead to dry spots in the pots that will cause bone dry roots which die. Take 'em to the sink and flush them heavily. That'll drench those roots and wash out any metabolites and fertilizer salts and bring in fresh air.


----------



## NeoNJ (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Humidity*

Humidity has always been my challenge, even with using a cool-mist humidifer - that does not compare to orchids growing in a greenhouse.

Right now the orchids on one of my windowsills is at a level of 34% - granted they get good Afternoon natural light, but with a temp of 84 and a humidity level of 34% that spells T-R-O-U-B-L-E. The use of Fans seems to work against rising Humidity levels ......so you need good air circulation plus good humidity .... the fans blow away the moisture in the air ! Ugh. Geesh.
This gets very complicated.


----------



## Rick (Jun 6, 2011)

NeoNJ said:


> Humidity has always been my challenge, even with using a cool-mist humidifer - that does not compare to orchids growing in a greenhouse.
> 
> Right now the orchids on one of my windowsills is at a level of 34% - granted they get good Afternoon natural light, but with a temp of 84 and a humidity level of 34% that spells T-R-O-U-B-L-E. The use of Fans seems to work against rising Humidity levels ......so you need good air circulation plus good humidity .... the fans blow away the moisture in the air ! Ugh. Geesh.
> This gets very complicated.



Yup, can you enclose the space with plastic sheets? Then you can end up fighting higher temps. Sometimes its push me pull you.


----------



## NeoNJ (Jun 6, 2011)

Rick said:


> Yup, can you enclose the space with plastic sheets? Then you can end up fighting higher temps. Sometimes its push me pull you.



Yep, you got it ! On one of the windowsills, I use a curtain and tape it to the side Walls to enclose the windowsill - which is great for the overnights - it provides the plants with 62% Humidity - but during the day, yup, you got it - the plants would BAKE ! So with the curtain open, and the fan and humidifier going, there is essentially no benefits to the plants !


----------



## Ernie (Jun 6, 2011)

We feel for you and speak from experience. It can certainly be done though! Just remember healthy root grow great plants. You might also try a plant or three in semi-hydro. Very conducive to windowsill growing!


----------



## Eric Muehlbauer (Jun 6, 2011)

I have found humidity to be far less of an issue for paphs and phrags than other orchids. Maybe crazies like sangii, but most paphs and phrags seem fine with ordinary household humidity.


----------



## Bolero (Jun 7, 2011)

Depends on the hybrid or species, some seem to prefer high humidity but some paphs don't really care. I grow some outside in low humidity and I have no problems at all. Others I grow in higher humidity......not sure if it makes a difference or not to be honest.

Not sure if this is a big deal or not really. I think many paphs grow well regardless of humidity as long as you get the watering right. I think the term is 'gently moist'.


----------



## emydura (Jun 7, 2011)

Some of them do grow OK at lower humidities. But there is a difference between surviving and thriving. They will do better at higher humidities. I guess it all depends on how serious you want to take it.

David


----------



## Rick (Jun 7, 2011)

Bolero said:


> Depends on the hybrid or species, some seem to prefer high humidity but some paphs don't really care. I grow some outside in low humidity and I have no problems at all. Others I grow in higher humidity......not sure if it makes a difference or not to be honest.
> 
> Not sure if this is a big deal or not really. I think many paphs grow well regardless of humidity as long as you get the watering right. I think the term is 'gently moist'.



That was the crux of the problem I had before humidity control. During the winter with less than 60%, some species (most frequently Barbata types for me, especially purpuratum) would loose lots of water through foliage, and the top of the potting mix would dry very quickly. So I'd water more, but the bottom of the pot would stay very wet, and rot roots. Maybe if I had used the sphag/basket system back then, I would have more even root zone moisture and aeration, and higher humidity around the base of the plant as evapotranspiration from the moss. 

This was also occuring in my old leaky GH, so like I said, it was a whole new era for me when I automated to force it up to 70-90%.


----------



## NeoNJ (Jun 7, 2011)

*Re: Humidity....How important is it really?*



emydura said:


> Some of them do grow OK at lower humidities. But there is a difference between surviving and thriving. They will do better at higher humidities. I guess it all depends on how serious you want to take it.
> 
> David



Well, yeah, growing them and blooming them is a big difference. The last time I had a collection of Paphs, I merely grew them, and never bloomed them again after getting them (they were in bud when I got them).

Right now I use 2 humidifers - one on each windowsill .... and I can't really say they do much if anything during the day ---- however, at night they manage to get the Humidity Levels up to 60%+ overnight.

So without a GH, and automation, I'm not quite sure how else to get the Humidity levels up beyond what they are currently ........


----------



## Rick (Jun 7, 2011)

NeoNJ said:


> Well, yeah, growing them and blooming them is a big difference. The last time I had a collection of Paphs, I merely grew them, and never bloomed them again after getting them (they were in bud when I got them).
> 
> Right now I use 2 humidifers - one on each windowsill .... and I can't really say they do much if anything during the day ---- however, at night they manage to get the Humidity Levels up to 60%+ overnight.
> 
> So without a GH, and automation, I'm not quite sure how else to get the Humidity levels up beyond what they are currently ........



And keep from growing mold/algae on your walls and furniture.:sob:

Some of the basement growers (like Wendy) have much better handle on indoor growing than me. Ernie wrote an article about indoor growing in his Chicago appartment (if I remember correctly). NYEric has turned his appartment into a jungle, and I don't think he worries about the mold growing on his furnitureoke:oke:

A lot of folks move away from the hot windows and end up using artificial lighting to be able to reduce heat and seal up the area for better humidity control. Seems like I've seen several articles on different ways of setting up a good indoor environment in Orchids over the last couple of years, 2 of which are by Ernie and Wendy. They may be helpfull in sizing up equipment needs for the size of your space.


----------



## emydura (Jun 8, 2011)

Rick said:


> A lot of folks move away from the hot windows and end up using artificial lighting to be able to reduce heat and seal up the area for better humidity control. Seems like I've seen several articles on different ways of setting up a good indoor environment in Orchids over the last couple of years, 2 of which are by Ernie and Wendy. They may be helpfull in sizing up equipment needs for the size of your space.



Here is an orchid setup in my house.

I had an unused 6 foot fish tank inside my house, so I decided to convert it into an orchid tank. I had a few Phalaenopsis growing in the glasshouse with my Paphs that were really struggling. So I thought I'd try something different and grow them under lights in the tank. The tank is mostly closed although a bit of air can get in. I sit the orchids above 6 or 7 inches of water which is heated by a fish tank heater. The result is high humidity (>70%) and warm temperatures (above 21oC). I have a small fan at one end. The Phals absolutely love it as you can see from the photos. After one week they were putting out big fleshy roots and quickly developed new leaves. If you look closely you can see a lot of the root growth as well as a few emerging spikes. A lot of the small plants I had quickly doubled in size.

So happy am I with this setup, that I'm trying to work out how I can do it at a larger scale in my glasshouse where electric fan heating is proving to be expensive as well as greatly reducing the humidity in winter.

David


----------



## JeanLux (Jun 8, 2011)

Wow, all of those phals are looking Really healthy :drool: !!!! Jean


----------



## paphioboy (Jun 8, 2011)

Looking really good, David..   Those are the healthiest phals I have ever seen in OZ....


----------



## SlipperFan (Jun 8, 2011)

They do indeed look good -- healthy leaves, strong roots!


----------



## Bolero (Jun 13, 2011)

emydura said:


> 50-60% is still a pretty good level of humidity. I have real humidity problems in winter as the heating dries out the air (30-40%). This really affects the mottled leaf species. The stress causes many of them to flower on immature growths.
> 
> David



What sort of heating do you use? I have an oil heater and the humidity stays at 80% or higher all winter. I am trying to work out how to get it down. Sometimes I open up the enclosed house so that the humidity drops a little.


----------



## emydura (Jun 13, 2011)

Bolero said:


> What sort of heating do you use? I have an oil heater and the humidity stays at 80% or higher all winter. I am trying to work out how to get it down. Sometimes I open up the enclosed house so that the humidity drops a little.



Electric heating. I think I heat my glasshouse warmer than yours (min - 15-16oC) which would make a difference. I have used an oli heater but found the temperature fluctuated quite a bit as they are slow to respond.

David


----------



## NeoNJ (Jun 13, 2011)

I want to refer to my original posting here ....

One orchid enthusiast recommended using the humidifier only at night .....

Overnite, I get humidity levels of 60-80%. Daytime levels are more difficult for me to maintain.


----------



## SlipperFan (Jun 13, 2011)

I would not recommend using the humidifier only at night.


----------



## Rick (Jun 14, 2011)

SlipperFan said:


> I would not recommend using the humidifier only at night.




Since you have a normal relative moisture rise at night anyway that doesn't make much sense to run at night and let your plants loose water during the day when they need it most.

Photosynthesis is taking light CO2 and water to make more plant, sugars, enzymes....

At night with no light plants respire and use oxygen to eat the food stuff they made during the day. They actually release back a bit of CO2 and water.

With relative % saturation less than 50% during light periods, forces the plant to pull more water up through the roots for loss to dry air + what ever water it needs for photosynthesis. The higher the humidity the less water lost to air and leaves can just go to town making plant stuff.


----------



## NeoNJ (Jun 14, 2011)

*Re: Humidity....How important is it really?*



Rick said:


> Since you have a normal relative moisture rise at night anyway that doesn't make much sense to run at night and let your plants loose water during the day when they need it most.
> 
> Photosynthesis is taking light CO2 and water to make more plant, sugars, enzymes....
> 
> ...



I read this information about leaving a Humdifier on at night on ORCHID KARMA's website. I found it odd also that it appeared what she was saying was to only use a Humidifer at nite........

I do tend to keep the Humidifiers on all day .... now that I have the new Ultrasonic Humidifier (1st Safety 360) I get the humidity levels up to 80-99%
(*and I enclose the area by pulling the drapes (which get a little damp) but who cares).


----------



## goldenrose (Jun 14, 2011)

do you care about the buildup of mold & mildew? BE CAREFUL, people can get very ill, it's one thing when you can see it, another thing when it gets into cracks & crevices of trimwork & then grows inside your walls. It's already been indicated that you can successfully grow at your current levels, IMO 80-99% is too high in the home. Why not raise it 10% & see what the difference might be for the plants.


----------



## NeoNJ (Jun 14, 2011)

goldenrose said:


> do you care about the buildup of mold & mildew? BE CAREFUL, people can get very ill, it's one thing when you can see it, another thing when it gets into cracks & crevices of trimwork & then grows inside your walls. It's already been indicated that you can successfully grow at your current levels, IMO 80-99% is too high in the home. Why not raise it 10% & see what the difference might be for the plants.



My point was that with this new ultrasonic Humidifer, I have the capability of getting the humidity level in this particular growing area up to 80-99%. Fortunately, this humidifier has a knob that controls the output of "mist" so you can turn it down low or up high.


----------



## goldenrose (Jun 14, 2011)

OK ... so what are you aiming at?


----------



## NeoNJ (Jun 14, 2011)

I am comfortable if the Humidity level is between 50-60% for the Paphs.........


----------



## goldenrose (Jun 14, 2011)

that sounds good for people & plants both!


----------

