# Greenhouse problem



## abax (Jan 4, 2013)

I'm doing some renovation in my 12 year old greenhouse and am bumfuzzled about what to do with English Ivy (Hedera helix) roots growing into the gh through the foundation. Don't ask how...I donno how! I can't
spray RoundUp outside because I have thousands of dollars worth of named
daylilies and Narcissi. Also with RU, the leaves have to be sprayed to kill
the plant. I've tried pulling and yanking, but it doesn't work for long and
the roots are back again. I'd appreciate suggestions about some kind of
chemical to use on the roots that won't harm my orchids. I've thought of
using my propane torch to burn the roots out, but it's just too wet and humid in there to work. At this point, I'd consider any relatively sane
idea...please.


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## ehanes7612 (Jan 4, 2013)

with plants like this in general.you have to cut the vegetative parts every chance you get to starve the starch stores in their roots..it may take awhile..this is how municipalities deal with problem weeds


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## gonewild (Jan 4, 2013)

Your best bet is to develop a fondness for ivy. oke:

You'll never pull it out and burning would only slow it down anyway.
Maybe electro shock therapy? (for the ivy not you)


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## TyroneGenade (Jan 4, 2013)

Spray RoundUp on the roots?

RoundUp breaks down very fast, perhaps you could temporarily move the daylillies etc... for a few weeks and spray the ivy dead.


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## fibre (Jan 4, 2013)

RoundUp is to spray on the leaves! The _Hedera helix_ leaves will absorb the herbizid and transmit it to the roots. This way it kills the entire plant. You may repeat this treatment two or three times. If you don't wet the leaves of your daylilies and Narcissi, they will stay safe and sound. So best is to use a kind of splash guard (I don't know the correct term).


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## Ray (Jan 4, 2013)

You can always dip a paint brush in the roundup solution and apply it that way. I have used it on oxalis and ferns growing in my orchid pots, by applying it carefully with a Q-tip cotton swab.


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## likespaphs (Jan 4, 2013)

Ray said:


> You can always dip a paint brush in the roundup solution and apply it that way. I have used it on oxalis and ferns growing in my orchid pots, by applying it carefully with a Q-tip cotton swab.



that's what i wuz gonna say....


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## cnycharles (Jan 4, 2013)

you might be able to use a portable spray tank (though the painting idea is safest) if you only barely pump it up, so the chemical only barely comes out and you use an adjustable tip so that it is on the most coarse, and not very fine setting. fine mist will float but coarse droplets will have less chance of traveling to your other plants. 

there are also sprayable contact herbicides that kill all of the leaves they touch, but aren't systemic like roundup. if you spray your ivy repeatedly then that would be like pulling them up repeatedly, which after a while may kill them. contact herbicides, if they do touch one of your other plants, will make a burn, but won't kill the plant.
it would be best to drape some plastic over your other outdoor plants while you spray, and then remove the plastic once any chance of drift is gone (the splash guard  )


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## NYEric (Jan 4, 2013)

Good luck. At least that's one thing apartment growers don't have to worry about.


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## SlipperFan (Jan 4, 2013)

I made the mistake of planting English Ivy in my front bed. When it started taking over, I started pulling -- and pulling. And I'm still pulling, but much less often now. I like the paintbrush idea.


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## abax (Jan 5, 2013)

Thank all of you for your relatively sane suggestions. I like the paint brush
idea too, but I'd be out there for weeks painting RU. I really don't want to kill ALL the ivy. I just want the roots out of my gh foundation. Yeah Dot, I hear that! I've been pulling and slashing for two summers and the ivy seems to just grow faster.

Lance, maybe shock treatment for me might be the better idea. Then I'd
just forgedabouit. Here's the thing: the roots have grown through two feet of concrete and rebar and a concrete floor sealed with silicone where
knee wall meets floor. I'm fascinated when I'm not really pissed off about 
it. The persistence of plants I mean.

Tyrone, I'm an old lady and you're talking hundreds of daylilies and Narcissi. My back hurts just thinking about it...oooouuuuuch!

What about just using a spray bottle with RU and brush killer and just
carefully spraying the roots on the inside of the gh? Suppose that might
work?


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## SlipperFan (Jan 5, 2013)

Roots on the _inside_ of the greenhouse??? Oh my. Yuck!!!


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## abax (Jan 6, 2013)

Yuck is absolutely right. I'm still having a hard time believing that the
roots grew through all that concrete. Amazing, ain't it?


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## Marc (Jan 6, 2013)

I had Water Horsetail growing in the garden, I took care of it by removing as much of the plant above ground as I could find. I then dug out the roots as far as I could and then treated the remaining root stumps with pure roundup.

I've seen people use this on Black cherry's as well as this is a introduced species and not welcome in our forrests.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jan 6, 2013)

Like an idiot I planted black bamboo a few years ago. It's beautiful...but! It takes over like any Phyllostachys. So far, I've controlled it by eating every spike that appears in an unwanted spot. But I've had it with this plant...even where I want it, it falls over after evert storm. And once 15-20' high bamboo stalks bend over, they don't get up! I've decided that this year, every spike gets eaten, reghardless of where it pops up...and next year, and next year....My wife got sick of eating bamboo every other day last year...she'll hate me this year when I serve it every day!


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## SlipperFan (Jan 6, 2013)

I didn't know Black Bamboo was Winter-hardy in our climate.


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## Clark (Jan 6, 2013)

The shorter variety of P. nigra is also hardy in the area.
We have ours for 6-7yrs. now.
The stalks/culms are less than an inch in diameter.

btw, my neighbors english ivy is very invasive, and is threatening to choke the bamboo. :fight:


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## abax (Jan 6, 2013)

I've got a book of recipes for eating kudzu. Do you suppose there's a book
somewhere about eating ivy???? Yuuum...I love bamboo shoots.

Marc, that sounds like a good plan to me and will work I think.


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## Stone (Jan 7, 2013)

Remember that round up will only work if applied to leaves not stems or roots.
I would recommend destroying the entire plant. If you can't spray (and round up doesn't work that well on ivy) you need to grab your secatures or pruning saw and trace the plant back to the main stem or stems. Cut it off just above the ground and then leave it. In 1 day you will see what you have killed and what you have missed and you'll know what to do. How about some pics?


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## keithrs (Jan 7, 2013)

It seems to me that if that you'll have to remove the whole plant as you will be dealing with it as long is in that area. 

They do make RU just for ivy. You'll need to use a dish soap when you apply it to help the "poison" stick.

Cover the plant you don't want RU on or do it the all fashion way and just start pull'n and torch'n. 

Vicodin anyone?oke:


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## abax (Jan 8, 2013)

I'll need the vicodin to start on that ivy. It's far more than one plant. I've mixed up a concoction of Round Up and a brush killer (2,4,D maybe) that might be effective. I didn't know there was RU just for ivy. I'll have to go to Lowes and try to find it. Wouldn't it be wonderful if they actually had it! I'm just a bit afraid to wade into that mess for hand pulling and sawing because particularly nasty yellow jackets just love to nest in there. Any body got a hazmat suit for sale? 

Stone are you volunteering to climb into that mess and take a photo? I'd
pay you well. :>)


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## keithrs (Jan 8, 2013)

Sounds like the same fight I had with my morning glory! 3 yrs later I'm still dealing with it!


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## mormodes (Jan 8, 2013)

Sunset Magazine also says you can contain the spray by spraying through a plastic Coke bottle or bleach bottle or something similar. Cut the bottom off the bottle, spray through the neck, placing the open bottom over the plant or ground area in question.


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## cnycharles (Jan 8, 2013)

I just read that you can use vinegar to spray on weeds to burn them (like using the other contact herbicides) though ivy might be tougher than grass


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## SlipperFan (Jan 8, 2013)

In my experience, vinegar only works on young plants that are in the sun.


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## abax (Jan 9, 2013)

I've used rubbing alcohol on individual plants from time to time and it
burned off the top growth, but the weed came back from the roots. I'd
guess vinegar works about the same way.

BTW, the person-in-charge at Lowes had never heard of RU for ivy...typical.

keithrs, forget getting rid of morning glory. We have had invasions of that stuff in our veggie garden for years and we've tortured it every way
we can think of with very little result. Ditto green briar and poison ivy.
And while I'm weed raging, we have had plagues of ragweed in the nursery fields and nothing takes them down...I mean nothing and we have access to herbicides that only licensed people can get.


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## gonewild (Jan 9, 2013)

abax said:


> And while I'm weed raging, we have had plagues of ragweed in the nursery fields and nothing takes them down...I mean nothing and we have access to herbicides that only licensed people can get.



You should plant Ivy in the nursery fields, it will choke out ragweed and nothing will take it down.
oke:
Beautiful Ivy
:sob:


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## keithrs (Jan 9, 2013)

abax said:


> I've used rubbing alcohol on individual plants from time to time and it
> burned off the top growth, but the weed came back from the roots. I'd
> guess vinegar works about the same way.
> 
> ...



The RU is labeled for poison ivy but it works on almost all ives. It's a brush killer too.

That morning glory is bullet proof! I most of pulled a mile of vine out and it just keeps coming back! At lease I got it away from the garden and house. It's growing in a field on top of ice plant. I gave up trying to get rid of it. I just control it now. I planted because its beautiful but I had no idea how invasive it was/is.


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## cnycharles (Jan 9, 2013)

as far as the ragweed and ivy, if you have one of those propane or butane flamethrower things that are designed to burn weeds out of sidewalks and driveways, when the ground is moist (no fire hazard) you can use that to burn back the plants. that way you are assured that there is no drift threat of chemicals to your desired plants. you could always water everything down in the area where you want to cook the weeds, because wet plants heated up will still die

the propane works well for the yellow jackets and ragweed too


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## goods (Jan 9, 2013)

abax, I work for a landscape maintenance company while I'm home on summer break, so roundup is a daily part of life. What we do for large, woody vegetation is cut it down close to the ground and spray the remaining stump with roundup. Spraying it in the open wound allows it to get to the roots. One application of this will even effectively kill very large tallow trees. 

My suggestion for your situation would be to chop the stems that are inside the GH with a shovel, etc. to open a wound on the plant and spray from the inside. That way, you protect your bulbs outside and should kill off most of the ivy.

Edit: I've never heard of a RU designed just for ivies, and just because it's effective for poison ivy doesn't mean it will be effective for English ivy. They aren't in the same family: poison ivy is Anacardiaceae, English ivy is Araliaceae.


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## gonewild (Jan 9, 2013)

goods said:


> Edit: I've never heard of a RU designed just for ivies, and just because it's effective for poison ivy doesn't mean it will be effective for English ivy. They aren't in the same family: poison ivy is Anacardiaceae, English ivy is Araliaceae.



Likely the only difference is a label specific to "Ivy". The chemical content is probably the same.


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## abax (Jan 10, 2013)

goods, that's close to my plan. I don't have the ivy leaves in the greenhouse, just the roots. I'm going to slash outside and scrape the
roots inside and very carefully drench the roots with Round Up mixed
with the brush killer with a spray bottle that will do a very thin stream...
and hope. You must like hard work in the summer. Our nursery used to
do landscaping, but we gave that up and just went exclusively back to
field grown trees selling to companies in the business wholesale by the
trailer truck load. Dealing with retail customers was a pain in the butt!

This thread has been entertaining and a bit reassuring that I'm not alone
in the wilderness fighting weeds.

Lance, I have a question about replacing ragweed with ivy. How can we
get ivy out of the trees...150 acres of trees!??? I think you secretly like
English Ivy. ;>)


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## goods (Jan 10, 2013)

abax, sounds like that should work! I remember back in one of my intro biology classes the professor taught us that RoundUp's mode of action was chlorophyll inhibition, hence the need for it to come in contact with leaves. In practice, I've come to question this unless it also does some other harm to the plant if there is an opening in the tissue along with blocking the function of the pigments. 

On the hard work, I enjoy being outdoors, and it's a family business. I get to choose when I do it as long as it all gets done by a set date, and the pay is a bit better than a typical student's summer job. I can't really complain! I remember when we had a much bigger operation and would receive those truckloads of trees...we'd have to plant small forests on golf courses


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## gonewild (Jan 10, 2013)

abax said:


> Lance, I have a question about replacing ragweed with ivy. How can we
> get ivy out of the trees...150 acres of trees!??? I think you secretly like
> English Ivy. ;>)



I was referencing using one bad problem to solve a lesser problem. You would not be able to get rid of the Ivy so really no problem is solved just changed to something worse.
This is something "we" do in life all the time. We create a problem by deciding we don't like something and then do something to solve the problem that turns out to be a worse problem. and this keeps on going until we have nothing left we are happy with.

My original comment "learn to love Ivy" was with this thought in mind. No matter what you do to get rid of the Ivy will invoke another problem whether it is an injured back from pulling the Ivy out by hand or some form of contamination by using chemicals.

No I don't like Ivy but I like the idea of liking Ivy so that I don't feel the need to worry about it.

At one point I used a lot of chemicals in or field crop production to control weeds. i remember when RU was first introduced and it was the safest and best thing ever invented. It was not long until the entire Central Valley of California was weed free along fences and canals. It was also the same short time that you stopped seeing wildlife along the roadways. The "safe" RU targets only the plant it is applied to but the overall effect is not so selective. 
Don't get me wrong I'm not against chemicals but I do realize what the end result will be from all the chemicals being sold to homeowners to solve problems that are not really "problems". You'll use roundup and 2-4d and probably solve your Ivy problem but there is still a problem.

I don't like Ivy but I think it is beautiful and I wish I had a greenhouse that was covered in it. (at this time I don't have a greenhouse, that's my "problem")


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## SlipperFan (Jan 10, 2013)

gonewild said:


> ...
> I don't like Ivy but I think it is beautiful and I wish I had a greenhouse that was covered in it. (at this time I don't have a greenhouse, that's my "problem")


No you don't!!!


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## abax (Jan 11, 2013)

I hear the "I'd like to like it" very well which is how the stuff got there in the
first place and I do think it's pretty. I agree with the notion that substituting one problem for another is awfully human. Our nursery uses
very little in the way of chemicals with the exception of using RU just around trees and not in the balk. I mow that all summer with a tractor to
put nutrients back into the soil. We're the only nursery in this area that
doesn't broad spray RU.

The ivy looks really good, especially with the Narcissi and daylilies coming
up through it, but it ain't going to dismantle my greenhouse from the
bottom up. So it seems I have little choice really. I'm only going to kill the ivy intruding into the greenhouse, not all of it. In passing, we have
lots of wooded area around our nursery fields and we've never noticed any
ill effects from using small amounts of RU relative to the acreage. Deer still gore the trees in the fall, the dogs still get skunked from time to time, and we feed all our wild critters large and small. In short, there's more of "them" than there are of "us". I appreciate you, Lance, I really do.


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## abax (Jan 11, 2013)

goods, I like working outside too. We've supplied trees and shrubbery for
golf courses and I love 'em as customers, but save me from ever having to
landscape any of them!!! Our biggest problem with landscaping was customers who didn't think they needed to deep water the trees for the first
year or two...sheesh. Those people need to buy plastic plants.


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## SlipperFan (Jan 11, 2013)

abax said:


> goods, I like working outside too. We've supplied trees and shrubbery for
> golf courses and I love 'em as customers, but save me from ever having to
> landscape any of them!!! Our biggest problem with landscaping was customers who didn't think they needed to deep water the trees for the first
> year or two...sheesh. Those people need to buy plastic plants.



:rollhappy::clap:


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## abax (Jan 12, 2013)

I see you've met some of those people, Dot! Writing that down reminded me why we
sold the landscaping/garden center and kept the tree nursery. A couple who'd just
built a new home came into the garden center and demanded plants they didn't have
to water. This was in a drought year at that. That's when I decided to sell that part of
the business or go on a hair-pulling spree!


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## Clark (Jan 12, 2013)

http://flamethrowerexpert.com/broke.html

I think chemicals are too harsh.


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## SlipperFan (Jan 12, 2013)

abax said:


> I see you've met some of those people, Dot! Writing that down reminded me why we
> sold the landscaping/garden center and kept the tree nursery. A couple who'd just
> built a new home came into the garden center and demanded plants they didn't have
> to water. This was in a drought year at that. That's when I decided to sell that part of
> the business or go on a hair-pulling spree!


From working at an orchid nursery, I've learned that there are just some people who ought not have plants!


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## abax (Jan 12, 2013)

Amen, sister, amen!


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## Stone (Jan 17, 2013)

abax said:


> goods, I like working outside too. We've supplied trees and shrubbery for
> golf courses and I love 'em as customers, but save me from ever having to
> landscape any of them!!! Our biggest problem with landscaping was customers who didn't think they needed to deep water the trees for the first
> year or two...sheesh. Those people need to buy plastic plants.



I also ran a retail nursery for 20 years. People are just #@$%^&$%#).
We once had a bloke come in demading a new tree 2 years after purchase saying it was my fault that it died!! I just told him to f**k off! Funny!, never saw him again. One Turkish customer (nice man) used to come in and order several bags of ''Lamb ****'' every vegie season:rollhappy: Those were the days..


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## wjs2nd (Jan 18, 2013)

My favorite, the people who want low light, heavy blooming shrubs. People would get so mad when I said we didn't have anything like that. I, finally, started telling people "God" doesn't make anything like that.


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## SlipperFan (Jan 18, 2013)

wjs2nd said:


> My favorite, the people who want low light, heavy blooming shrubs. People would get so mad when I said we didn't have anything like that. I, finally, started telling people "God" doesn't make anything like that.


:rollhappy: -- and I'll bet they acceped that explanation!


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## abax (Jan 19, 2013)

Stone, I gotcha beat on that one. Man bought twenty red dogwoods to line his driveway. Came back FIVE YEARS later and wanted me to replace all twenty for free because they died............he didn't water them at all in
five years!!! I didn't say **** off, but I sure wanted to. I went to the back of the garden center to the Screaming Tree, a large white oak that was designated for frustrated employees. I KNOW you know what I mean!


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## Ozpaph (Jan 19, 2013)

Whatever happened to commonsense and decency???


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## wjs2nd (Jan 19, 2013)

SlipperFan said:


> :rollhappy: -- and I'll bet they acceped that explanation!



Haha, it worked the best! I, also, told they that if I invented a low light, high bloom shrub (what they wanted usually were roses) I wouldn't be working here but enjoying my millions.


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## SlipperFan (Jan 20, 2013)

wjs2nd said:


> Haha, it worked the best! I, also, told they that if I invented a low light, high bloom shrub (what they wanted usually were roses) I wouldn't be working here but enjoying my millions.



:clap:


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