# kovachii specie seedlings



## gonewild (Oct 4, 2006)

In August I got a flask of kovachii seedlings from Piping Rock. Well actually I got 2 half flasks. There has been a lot of comments about the specie seedlings being slow and difficult to grow. Although I see some difference in growth behavior from hybrids (non kovachii) I think they are growing well so far. It would be very good if others who also got kovachii flasks could share their progress, good or bad by adding to this thread. Here are pictures of my plants.

My seedlings were shipped deflasked.







I potted the 5 largest seedlings in S/H in 3 inch pots. Here is a growth comparison after one month.






Smaller single seedlings and clumps were planted into straight sphag.
This seedling had a ls of about 1+ inch. The root(s) were about half inch.
The top image is freshly planted and the lower image is the same plant after 32 days.






Here is a larger seedling which also had larger roots, The lower image is the same plant after 32 days of growth.






Here is a closeup of the largest seedling taken today after 6 weeks growth. Notice the new root growing at the base.






I appreciate any comments, questions or added information.


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## Shadow (Oct 4, 2006)

Congratulations! Very nice seedlings and they are growing very fast, I think. Good luck with your kovachi. Looking forward to the new progress photos.


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## NYEric (Oct 4, 2006)

Nice growing. I noticed that Glen Decker showed reasonably good progress w/ growing kovachii and they actually seem to grow a lot better than schlimii, and fischeri species and primary hybrids.


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## Jason Fischer (Oct 5, 2006)

I'm not quite sure if I understood the text, are these photos of kovachii seedlings or kovachii hybrid seedlings?


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## Jason Fischer (Oct 5, 2006)

Nevermind, I see that you meant kovachii. Those are making good progress in my opinion! Ours slow down quite a bit in the summer, but then start to move along when it cools down.


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## gonewild (Oct 5, 2006)

Jason Fischer said:


> I'm not quite sure if I understood the text, are these photos of kovachii seedlings or kovachii hybrid seedlings?



kovachii seedlings, not hybrids.


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## gonewild (Oct 5, 2006)

Jason Fischer said:


> Nevermind, I see that you meant kovachii. Those are making good progress in my opinion! Ours slow down quite a bit in the summer, but then start to move along when it cools down.



Jason... can you explain what you mean when you say it cools down. What have your temperatures been and what temp is cooled down? Also do you think the growth rate increase is a factor of cooler temperatures or are there possibly some other factors that come along with cooler temperatures?

It would be great if you posted some pictures of your kovachii seedlings.


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## NYEric (Oct 5, 2006)

Challenge!! Jason's "seedlings" probably have 10" leaf span. :viking:


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## Shadow (Oct 5, 2006)

And what are the kovachi species and hybrids? For example, there are "Goliath" and "Jewel" (wild clones of kovachi). If we cross them, what do we get - new specie clone or hybrid?


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## Drorchid (Oct 5, 2006)

If you cross two different clones of species A (Species A by Species A) you still get species A, so no Hybrid. So Phrag. kovachii 'Goliath' x Phrag. kovachii 'Jewel' is still a Phrag. kovachii.

If you cross a clone of species A with a clone of species B, you get a Hybrid.
so Phrag. kovachii x Phrag. wallisii will be a new hybrid.

At Orchids Limited we have the following kovachii hybrids:

Phrag. kovachii x Phrag. Phrag. dalessandroi

http://www.orchidweb.com/cat_dtl.asp?P_Recno=3997&f_pagenumber=1&tpn=1

Phrag. kovachii x Phrag. wallisii

http://www.orchidweb.com/cat_dtl.asp?P_Recno=4002&f_pagenumber=1&tpn=1

Phrag. kovachii x Phrag. schlimii

http://www.orchidweb.com/cat_dtl.asp?P_Recno=3996&f_pagenumber=1&tpn=1

and Phrag. kovachii x Phrag. longifolium

http://www.orchidweb.com/cat_dtl.asp?P_Recno=3995&f_pagenumber=1&tpn=1

I will post some pictures of our Phrag. kovachii seedlings later.

Robert


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## gonewild (Oct 5, 2006)

Shadow said:


> And what are the kovachii species and hybrids? For example, there are "Goliath" and "Jewel" (wild clones of kovachii). If we cross them, what do we get - new specie clone or hybrid?



We get kovachii specie, not a hybrid or clone.

The kovachii specie seedlings I have are a result of crossing 2 wild collected kovachii plants. They each were given clonal names. One is 'Laura' and the other is 'Ana'. 

When you cross two specie plants you have specie offspring. A specie is a specie when it only has the one specie present in the parentage. Whether the cross is made by nature or in a nursery will not effect the fact it is kovachii specie. In time after generations of captive breeding the captive kovachii specie will be different in growth and appearance from the wild forms, but it will still be genetically pure kovachii. 

By breeding two kovachii specie "clones" together you do not create a single new clone, rather each resulting seedling will be an individual. In the future, divisions (or tissue culture plantlets) will become a clone of each resultant seedling. The term "clone" is used in the case of orchids to refer to all vegetatively propagated plants from a single genetically unique plant.

A hybrid is created by mixing two or more species . A hybrid can be created by nature or by the hand of humans.


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## Drorchid (Oct 5, 2006)

Here is one of our flasks of kovachii:






Here is a tray with some of the largest seedlings:






and here is the largest seedling of Phrag. kovachii that we have thus far:






Robert


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## Drorchid (Oct 5, 2006)

and yes NYEric was right....I measured the largest Phrag. kovachii seedling, and it had a leafspan of 10.5"!

Robert


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## gonewild (Oct 5, 2006)

Drorchid said:


> Here is one of our flasks of kovachii:
> 
> Here is a tray with some of the largest seedlings:
> 
> Robert



Robert, How long have these seedlings been growing out of flask?


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## Drorchid (Oct 5, 2006)

If I remember right we took the first ones out of flask in September 2005, so they are have been growing in the greenhouse for over one year.

Robert


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## Heather (Oct 5, 2006)

Well, the OL seedlings certainly look spectacular. This is one reason I am waiting a while to purchase. I don't know my conditions well enough at the moment (You grow for two years in one place and you have an idea of what you're doing right. You move three times in 6 months and it all goes to hell!) and I just think the experts are going to have better luck than I with young seedlings. 

I have not decided who I will buy from, and when. Suspense....


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## Jason Fischer (Oct 6, 2006)

Well, to follow up, when I say 'cool' I mean daytime temps that stay around or below 75 degrees, with night time temps preferably around the low 60's, or even high 50's. Moreover, the decrease of the intense summer sun (it gets very bright here in MN) really helps too. kovachii seem to like medium to low light, with good air movement and intermediate/cool temps. Semi-hydro culture looks like it works and seems interesting, but I've never tried it and am used to using small bark with phrags. I'd like to experiment on a few and see how they grow. Is the most popular semi-hydro substrate aliflor?


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## Shadow (Oct 6, 2006)

Drorchid, gonewild, thanks for explaining the difference.


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## Heather (Oct 6, 2006)

Jason Fischer said:


> I'd like to experiment on a few and see how they grow. Is the most popular semi-hydro substrate aliflor?



I think Prime Agra is more popular than aliflor.


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## SlipperFan (Oct 6, 2006)

gonewild said:


> In August I got a flask of kovachii seedlings from Piping Rock. Well actually I got 2 half flasks. There has been a lot of comments about the specie seedlings being slow and difficult to grow. Although I see some difference in growth behavior from hybrids (non kovachii) I think they are growing well so far. It would be very good if others who also got kovachii flasks could share their progress, good or bad by adding to this thread.
> 
> I appreciate any comments, questions or added information.


Lance, your seedlings are growing beautifully. Would you be willing to share with us your growing conditions? How much light, day/night temps, watering schecule, etc.?

I have my half-flask growing in my basement under lights. I think it's probably too warm for them, but it was the coolest spot in my house this summer. They were not doing well, so I transplanted them into a diatomite/chc mix I made up and the few that are left seem to be holding their own.

Jason, thanks for confirming that they like cooler temperatures and lower light.

Any tips from the two of you would be most appreciated.


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## NYEric (Oct 6, 2006)

*Turning green!*

10+ inches!!!!!!! Argh! I think they better not let me visit Orchids Ltd. Or else... :arrr:


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## gonewild (Oct 8, 2006)

SlipperFan said:


> Lance, your seedlings are growing beautifully. Would you be willing to share with us your growing conditions? How much light, day/night temps, watering schecule, etc.?
> 
> Any tips from the two of you would be most appreciated.



Here is how we are growing the kovachii and a description of our conditions and basic environment:

*Light:* Light is from T8 tubes at a distance of 7 inches above the leaf which I yields approx. 1000 foot-candles. 14 hours per day. The plants do not receive any direct sunlight although they are in a bright location and get perhaps 20 foot-candles of ambient sunlight during daylight hours.

*Temperature*: For the first 3 weeks out of flask the day temperature peaked at about 78F. By midnight the night temperature lowered to about 70F. Temperature tapered off to a minimum of 68F. After the initial 3 week period we lowered the day temps to about 75F and the nights drop to a low of about 63F. On the average most hours of the daytime temperatures are 73F - 78F +/- and nights temps. are in the 67-70F range.

*Humidity:* Daytime RH runs at approx. 65% in the atmosphere on the outside of the plant rack. Night time RH jumps up to about 75% as the temperatures drop.The RH immediately around the plants range are slightly higher. 

*Water:* RO water at a clean rate of 15ppm.

*Fertilizer:* Fertilizer is a MSU formula of 13-3-15-8Ca-2Mg with trace elements. Irrigation water has fertilizer at approx. 400ppm total, which I beleive is approx. 100ppm N.

*Outside environment:* We are located about 400 meters inland from the ocean. Air is very clean without pollution. Altitude is 15 meters above sea level.

*Inside environment:* Plants are located in our living space. We have not used any artificial heating or cooling during the time we have had kovachii. During most days a ceiling fan runs in the room where the plant racks are kept. Doors and windows are opened during warm days to provide for cooling air flow and ventilation. 

*Growing environment:* Plants are located on tiered racks with T8 lighting 8 inches above the pot rim. Each shelf is fitted with a Plexiglas plant tray. Each tray is designed with a pump circulating water over a raised rear wall to provide a waterfall effect which maintains humidity and creates a subtle air movement within the shelf tray environment day and night. The water in each tray is maintained at a 1 inch depth and has a constant current. During the day the shelf receives additional ventilation from a 4 inch fan.

*Method of potting:* Pots are 3 inch diameter x 4 inch tall plastic cups with side drainage holes 1 inch above the bottom as for S/H. The plants growing in S/H (PrimeAgra) were selected because they had unbroken healthy roots more than 1 inch long. Smaller plants with smaller roots were put into NZ Sphagnum.

I do not use compots but rather plant each plant individually. Except in the case where plants are stuck together, to avoid root damage, I plant them in clumps. Moss is pre wetted with most of the water squeezed out. In the bottom one third of the pot I drop sphag moss in very loosely. Around each plant I form a ball of moss and then force the mass into the pot. This compacts the moss in the root area but leaves the lower moss in the pot loose with air space. I make a point to plant the plantlets deep so that moss loosely covers the stem. After potting, a small amount of water is poured on the plant to saturate the root area but not enough to saturate all the moss. Plants planted in PrimeAgra are done as any other plant, but with extreme care not to crack the roots and making sure the base of the plant is slightly below the media surface (very important).

*Growing technique:*

Care after planting: Plants are placed directly on the grow rack shelves. During the day the plants are misted (fine) with RO water frequently. Basically I like to see visible water on the leaves at all time during the day. Leaves should be dry within 2 hours before lights out. After a couple days the palnts are watered well with fertilizer mix.

After about one week the plants are watered more often. Generally the plants in sphag are watered with fertilizer 2 times per week. Plants in PrimeAgra are watered almost everyday with fertilizer. Plants are misted with RO water throughout the day several times, everyday.

*MOST IMPORTANT*.... the surface of the media must be moist to encourage and support new basal roots. We literally keep the surface of the media wet. The trick is to be able to do this without water logging the substrate. With PrimeAgra this in no problem. With moss it is more of a problem. The loose moss in the water reservoir of each pot acts as a wick and helps pull the excess water downward from the root zone. Frequent mistings keep the surface of the moss wet, but not over satuated. Because the pots are clear it is easy to monitor the water content in the moss.

I really believe the seedlings like it wet. Especially they like it wet on the leaves and the surface of the media. Below the surface we just need a humid and well drained environment. This is where PrimeAgra really works well. But we need good roots to go direct from flask to PrimeAgra. Most of the seedlings I received had roots still too small to risk so I went with sphag, but only as a stepping stone. As soon as the plants have active roots an inch long I'll move them to the PrimeAgra. 

There you have the basics. If you have any questions I'll be happy to answer.

I hope others will add their kovachii growing techniques to this forum thread, good or bad all information is helpful.

Here is a new kovachii root tip growing fast in wet PrimeAgra.


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## Marco (Oct 8, 2006)

Thanks Lance  great post. I don't own any kovachii cause they're mainly too expensive for me at this moment.And my grow area gets really really warm, peaks 85-90. In the near future when prices go down and when I can get a portion of my grow area more towards intermediate conditions I will definately be picking one up. 

As for the "misting the plant regularly" I think I'm gonna do that with a couple of my bigger paphs every morning for a couple of months to see how it goes.  I need to go buy more distilled water though cause I wanna avoid mineral build up. I normally use tap for everything cept for my lone phrag.


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## kentuckiense (Oct 8, 2006)

Now that's a damn fine root tip!


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## SlipperFan (Oct 8, 2006)

Lance, thanks for the great information! Especially helpful are your comments about moisture on the plants and at the surface of the media.

Much thanks!


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## Heather (Oct 8, 2006)

Excellent information. Thank you and I hope others chime in with their experiences.


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## Wendy (Oct 9, 2006)

Thanks for the info. I get my seedling in a few months and any information will be saved for future reference.


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## NYEric (Oct 10, 2006)

Holy Moley! I need to take my growing a little more seriously.


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## bench72 (Oct 17, 2006)

Re: Deflasking...

Has anyone tried leaving the Agar on method? Pros? Cons?

cheers
tim


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