# The New Prime-agra, my results and warning to all



## bwester (Dec 12, 2006)

I've been using the new prime-agra for quite some time now (ever since Ray first started carrying it) and have come to one final conclusion........ slippers friggin hate it. Almost every paph and phrag (except the wet loving phrags) rotted like crazy. Other plants like my catts and phals had no problem, but it seems to wick way too much water for paphs. All my slippers that I had in the old prime-agra are thriving..... so fair warning. Use the new stuff with extreme caution.


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## kentuckiense (Dec 12, 2006)

Thanks for the heads up. However, I'm one of those peons that still uses bark or CHC.


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## Grandma M (Dec 12, 2006)

I used the new PA to plant several slippers. I guess I had better keep a close eye on them. Thanks for the warning. I wonder why this one would have more wicking action than the old one. Any ideas?

Marilyn


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## kentuckiense (Dec 12, 2006)

Grandma M said:


> I used the new PA to plant several slippers. I guess I had better keep a close eye on them. Thanks for the warning. I wonder why this one would have more wicking action than the old one. Any ideas?
> 
> Marilyn


Here are a couple links:

http://www.firstrays.com/improved_primeagra.htm
http://www.orchidboard.com/community/showthread.php?p=7814#post7814


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## gonewild (Dec 12, 2006)

bwester said:


> I've been using the new prime-agra for quite some time now (ever since Ray first started carrying it) and have come to one final conclusion........ slippers friggin hate it. Almost every paph and phrag (except the wet loving phrags) rotted like crazy. Other plants like my catts and phals had no problem, but it seems to wick way too much water for paphs. All my slippers that I had in the old prime-agra are thriving..... so fair warning. Use the new stuff with extreme caution.



When you potted plants in the new type did they do poorly from the beginning or did they grow and then fail later on?


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## Heather (Dec 12, 2006)

Wow, I'd love to hear a response from Ray about this one! 
Guess, for now, I'll keep recycling...and recycling...


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Dec 12, 2006)

Thanks....I'm planning on ordering more Prime agra from Ray after the holidays (can't afford anything at all now!) ...and eventually I'll post my experiences using semi hydro with the old Prime agra...can't say that I'm impressed so far, as far as slippers are concerned....even phrags don't show any improvement over bark, and most show no growth at all...on the other hand, non- slipper orchids...the very few that I've tried...love it. So I will continue for now with SH, but branching out more to other orchids...Take care, Eric


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## johnndc (Dec 12, 2006)

As for ordering Prime Agra, someone recommended I check out the Leca clay they have at Crop King. And I have to say, it sure looks like the same stuff, and it's a hell of a lot cheaper. Yes, it's various sizes included in one bag, but considering the price and size of the bag, 20 bucks for a 50 litre bag (which is really big, and on my balcony right now), I happily bought it. Only just started using it a month ago, but it really really really looks like the same stuff. You can check it out here.


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## bwester (Dec 12, 2006)

They seemed alright and the roots looked ok from the top, but when unpotted were all rotted.


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## gonewild (Dec 12, 2006)

bwester said:


> They seemed alright and the roots looked ok from the top, but when unpotted were all rotted.



Did any new root growth occur in the new material before it rotted?

Were the plants you planted in it re-potted from normal mix or from old PrimeAgra?


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## ScottMcC (Dec 13, 2006)

hmm...I have been using some new primeagra, and my conclusion is that the very surface is prone to some salt buildup. but a quick misting of the surface or of course thorough watering takes care of that in a hurry. everything that I have in new primeagra seems ok so far, but it's only been a month.


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## bwester (Dec 13, 2006)

ScottMcC said:


> hmm...I have been using some new primeagra, and my conclusion is that the very surface is prone to some salt buildup. but a quick misting of the surface or of course thorough watering takes care of that in a hurry. everything that I have in new primeagra seems ok so far, but it's only been a month.



I had that problem too..... and its gets bad over time


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## Heather (Dec 13, 2006)

Blake, have you emailed Ray about it? I would...


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## bwester (Dec 13, 2006)

Yep, no response yet. The salt buildups really bother me. Plus, the uniform size goes against all he said he was looking for in that sort of product on his site.


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## littlefrog (Dec 13, 2006)

Last time I repotted I moved a good number of paphs over to semi-hydro. Most are in diatomite, some in haydite or some such lightweight aggregate.

Since I'm repotting again (ach!), I'm noticing what has happened in the last year. I lost several right away (just didn't take to it). A few more are struggling. The ones that did take to it seem to be doing pretty well. I haven't unpotted them, nor am I planning on it. I have a victoria-regina that is just going gangbusters and will bloom soon, and a dozen or so maudiae types that are doing very well. Interestingly, a few bigger plants (mostly malipoense hybrids) in 8" regular pots are doing quite well in straight medium diatomite.

So, will I do it again? Maybe. I'm certainly not moving all my paphs. And for plants I'm selling, I'm going to continue the traditional mix in regular old boring SVD (square very deep) pots. Actually I've added bark back into my traditional mix, so even that is changing. I'm pretty happy with the results for Phrags, at least the besseae hybrids. Still on the fence there...


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## NYEric (Dec 13, 2006)

Can anyone recommend a supplier for potting materials; Diatomite, clear pots, small clay pots, Primeagra, MSU fertilizer, etc in the Northeast? My source in N.J. has developed medical problems and is not currently shipping.


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## Heather (Dec 13, 2006)

Eric, you must have missed my response the last time you asked. oke: Kelley's Korner in Maine has all of that. kkorchids.com


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## Zapatito (Dec 13, 2006)

I think I have the old stuff as I have been using it for close to 2 years now, and I have found that the rule is to 'UNDER WATER' even when you think its time ..... wait ...... and now when i do water I only put in a splash .... 
I ended up rotting a couple of paphs and then tried an experiment of just watering a container with PA and no plant, I dumped the PA out after a week to see how wet it was ...... and so on ..... so you do have to be careful with this culture change. 
I actually have been quite happy with the root develpment since figuring this out ......


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## Heather (Dec 13, 2006)

So, Walter, do you not flush your pots?


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## NYEric (Dec 13, 2006)

Thank you.:wink:


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## Zapatito (Dec 13, 2006)

Neglect, Neglect ....... they thrive on it ....... ok yes I do but only about once every 3-6 months


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## Heather (Dec 13, 2006)

wow, and no salt build up? you must have nice water. I get salt build up (not badly but still salt build up) in a month or two...


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## Park Bear (Dec 15, 2006)

I use hydroton and it seems to dry out quickly. I haven't had any problems with any of my orchids, but I do tend to be an 'underwaterer'. I do water my phrags more often than other orchids. I have cats, paphs, bulbos, inc, odonts, milts, etc....all are doing well and I can see plenty of roots.


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## Inverness (Dec 15, 2006)

I have about 500 plants (paphs, phrags, phals, cats, and others) under HID lights in PrimeAgra and plastic, side drained pots. Feed with MSU fertilizer every watering 125ppm (with a hose, greenhouse style, about twice a week). Fifty or so are in the new PA and are watered on the same schedule. Have not seen any problems, only great growth.

Ken Brewer


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## NYEric (Dec 15, 2006)

*Potting supplies*

I checked out Kelly's [H's recommendation] but I didn't see any clear tall/extra deep pots. Does anyone make these?


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## suss16 (Dec 15, 2006)

Inverness - by your comment I take it you do not use PA in a true "semi-hydro" fashiion? How are your results since you went to straight PA? Also 125 ppm meaning 125 ppm N? Correct? Thanks for the info...

Tony


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## Inverness (Dec 15, 2006)

Tony, I'm using the pots from First Rays & Grow In Hydro. By greenhouse style I mean I water with a hose and there are floor drains; everything is watered at the same time every time. And yes, I'm referring to 125 ppm of N. I've been growing orchids for over 40 years and for me, the PrimeAgra/SemiHydro format works better than anything I've ever tried. Priror to this I used coconut husk. Worked better than bark, but PA/SH is the best for me so far.

Ken Brewer


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## Marco (Dec 25, 2006)

Any news from Ray, Blake?


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## bwester (Dec 25, 2006)

he posted a rather nasty response to my orchidboard post, but nothing constructive. He's lost my business for good.


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