# Epiphytic Paphs?



## TropiCool (Sep 20, 2020)

I was just noodling around, searching out info on epiphytic paphs (there aren't many spp), and up popped this pic taken in a mist forest on PNG. What could it be? 




original page here:
Epiphytic orchid species from cloud forest | Bernard Van Elegem


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## DrLeslieEe (Sep 20, 2020)

This is a Bulbophyllum species. A few from this genera has pouches like paphs!


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## Ozpaph (Sep 20, 2020)

parishii is 'sort of' epiphytic


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## DrLeslieEe (Sep 20, 2020)

Ozpaph said:


> parishii is 'sort of' epiphytic


Very true...


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## TyroneGenade (Sep 21, 2020)

See Wild Orchids in Myanmar, Wild paphiopedilums in Myanmar.ミャンマーのラン、ミヤンマーのラン、ミャンマーのパフィオペディルム（パフィオペディラム）、Paphiopedilum villosum grows as an epiphyte... and many others as lithophytes. Here you can see the roots wrapping around the tree trunk: https://bluenanta.com/static/utils/images/species/spc_000190257_000147304.jpg


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## DrLeslieEe (Sep 21, 2020)

Oh yes so true


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## TropiCool (Sep 22, 2020)

DrLeslieEe said:


> This is a Bulbophyllum species. A few from this genera has pouches like paphs!


Thanks. I thought the leaves were suspiciously like Bulbophyllum.... but hadn't known of any with pouches like that.


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## TropiCool (Sep 22, 2020)

TyroneGenade said:


> See Wild Orchids in Myanmar, Wild paphiopedilums in Myanmar.ミャンマーのラン、ミヤンマーのラン、ミャンマーのパフィオペディルム（パフィオペディラム）、Paphiopedilum villosum grows as an epiphyte... and many others as lithophytes. Here you can see the roots wrapping around the tree trunk: https://bluenanta.com/static/utils/images/species/spc_000190257_000147304.jpg


Awesome image!


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## likespaphs (Sep 22, 2020)

I thought lowii can be at time too, but i'm not sure


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## BrucherT (Oct 14, 2020)

DrLeslieEe said:


> This is a Bulbophyllum species. A few from this genera has pouches like paphs!


Did we ever get an ID on this species? I love it.


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## Guldal (Oct 15, 2020)

likespaphs said:


> I thought lowii can be at time too, but i'm not sure



I think lowii are considered mainly epiphytic. And, by the way, with the concept of epiphytic we have to tread with care: Braem describes a lot of Paph-species, that other describe as litophytically or terrestially growing, as humus-epiphytes, i.e. they might grow on the ground, f.ex. at the foot of large trees, or on rocky ground, but in both cases only where old leaves and other like organic material have collected, in cracks in the rocks, inbetween the roots of the tree, etc. - and with the milieue this humus-material generates being a prerequisite for them growing there. I think he has quite a point.
A point that also has some implications for culture, as the presence of the humus might affect f.ex. the overall PH value of the mikro milieue, i.e. one can't 110% deduct that a plant growing on calceolous cliffs, but as a humus-epiphyte, needs a growth medium veering on the side of alkaline. If my memory doesn't elude me completely, I think, Averyanov et al. did analyse the rainwater running from the spots, where P. henryanum grew, and found it just slightly acidic, even though the cliffs themselves, on which the plants were growing, were limestone! Quite an interesting observation.


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## Happypaphy7 (Oct 15, 2020)

When there are lots of humidity, it's probably more likely that certain paphs will be able to grow up on trees.
I've seen bellatulum high up on a tree as well. 
So far, villosum, parishii, lowi are known to be growing as epiphytes. Probably more depending on the regions and local conditions in their habitat, which won't be a surprise.


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## Happypaphy7 (Oct 15, 2020)

Guldal said:


> I think lowii are considered mainly epiphytic. And, by the way, with the concept of epiphytic we have to tread with care: Braem describes a lot of Paph-species, that other describe as litophytically or terrestially growing, as humus-epiphytes, i.e. they might grow on the ground, f.ex. at the foot of large trees, or on rocky ground, but in both cases only where old leaves and other like organic material have collected, in cracks in the rocks, inbetween the roots of the tree, etc. - and with the milieue this humus-material generates being a prerequisite for them growing there. I think he has quite a point.
> A point that also has some implications for culture, as the presence of the humus might affect f.ex. the overall PH value of the mikro milieue, i.e. one can't 110% deduct that a plant growing on calceolous cliffs, but as a humus-epiphyte, needs a growth medium veering on the side of alkaline. If my memory doesn't elude me completely, I think, Averyanov et al. did analyse the rainwater running from the spots, where P. henryanum grew, and found it just very slightly acidic, even though the cliffs themselves, on which the plants were growing, were limestone! Quite an interesting observation.



I don't think the rock surface they grow on dissolve away in any significant amount. Otherwise, they wouldn't make home there in the first place. hahaha
I've seen other field study and the pH in the immediate area around the roots seems to be always on the acidic side. I've never added any extra calcium rich material in my potting mix. Never had issues.


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## BrucherT (Oct 16, 2020)

Happypaphy7 said:


> I don't think the rock surface they grow on dissolve away in any significant amount. Otherwise, they wouldn't make home there in the first place. hahaha
> I've seen other field study and the pH in the immediate area around the roots seems to be always on the acidic side. I've never added any extra calcium rich material in my potting mix. Never had issues.


What’s the cal-mag content of the water you use?


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## TyroneGenade (Oct 16, 2020)

Guldal said:


> ...a lot of Paph-species, that other describe as litophytically or terrestially growing, as humus-epiphytes, i.e. they might grow on the ground, f.ex. at the foot of large trees, or on rocky ground, but in both cases only where old leaves and other like organic material have collected, in cracks in the rocks, inbetween the roots of the tree, etc. - and with the milieue this humus-material generates being a prerequisite for them growing there...



I did an experiment a few years back where I potted a complex Paph in mix of crushed dried leaf litter and large silica gravel. The plant did great, flowering each year but each year I had to report with fresh leaf litter as the old had simply rotted away. The plant did not appreciate being in plain stone. This experiment ran for about 3 years and then I potted it into crushed clay brick. A small insigne division which I had potted into plain crushed brick was doing great. I immigrated the next year so I have no idea how the other complex paph faired in the crushed brick but from what I hear the insigne is still doing great, now about 7 years since being potted into the clay brick.

Sigh... I miss insigne. It is a lovely little paph. I would love another division.


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## BrucherT (Oct 17, 2020)

TyroneGenade said:


> I did an experiment a few years back where I potted a complex Paph in mix of crushed dried leaf litter and large silica gravel. The plant did great, flowering each year but each year I had to report with fresh leaf litter as the old had simply rotted away. The plant did not appreciate being in plain stone. This experiment ran for about 3 years and then I potted it into crushed clay brick. A small insigne division which I had potted into plain crushed brick was doing great. I immigrated the next year so I have no idea how the other complex paph faired in the crushed brick but from what I hear the insigne is still doing great, now about 7 years since being potted into the clay brick.
> 
> Sigh... I miss insigne. It is a lovely little paph. I would love another division.


Solid crushed clay brick??????


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## Silverwhisp (Oct 17, 2020)

BrucherT said:


> Solid crushed clay brick??????


My question, too. 

Tyrone, what about Turface? Would that be a similar media?


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## TyroneGenade (Oct 17, 2020)

Yes, solid crushed clay brick.


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## Sky7Bear (Oct 18, 2020)

Some of us grow many if not most of our orchid genera, including Paphs and Phrags, semi-hydroponically (SH). I recently converted the remainder of my collection (other than mounted) to one of several kinds of "rock" media--mostly either artificially created lightweight expanded clay aggregate (LECA) or calcined clay (montmorillonite or monto clay) commonly available from bonsai dealers such as Bonsai Jack or American Bonsai. This is then placed in a container that has a small portion of the bottom as a water reservoir. This seems to be working well.

The advantage is obvious--no more rotting medium. The things to watch out for is salt buildup (regular flushing needed), and providing enough air at the roots. The amount of air seems to vary by genus, but additional holes on the side of the container seem to work well. The size of the "rocks," which can vary quite a lot, also seems to be part of this equation, and getting the balance right is important for root growth.


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## Linus_Cello (Oct 18, 2020)

Sky7Bear said:


> Some of us grow many if not most of our orchid genera, including Paphs and Phrags, semi-hydroponically (SH). I recently converted the remainder of my collection (other than mounted) to one of several kinds of "rock" media--mostly either artificially created lightweight expanded clay aggregate (LECA) or calcined clay (montmorillonite or monto clay) commonly available from bonsai dealers such as Bonsai Jack or American Bonsai. This is then placed in a container that has a small portion of the bottom as a water reservoir. This seems to be working well.



Which paphs are you growing s/h? Phrags do well for me s/h, but paphs for me seem to prefer bark based media


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## Ray (Oct 19, 2020)

Linus, I have a couple of venustums, a roth, a couple of roth intersectional hybrids, gigantifolium, acmodontum, Delrosi, David Ott, and a couple of others in S/H.

When I was developing the technique, paphs were my first “guinea pigs”, and they did so well in my PA greenhouse it encouraged me to proceed with other genera.


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## Happypaphy7 (Oct 19, 2020)

BrucherT said:


> What’s the cal-mag content of the water you use?


I use tap water in NYC. I don't remember the details from the last water report, but our tap water is very low in mineral contents.


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