# Phrag. Fritz Schomburg vs Peruflora's Cirilia Alca



## Drorchid (Aug 25, 2010)

Both Phrag. Fritz Schomburg (=kovachii x besseae) and Peruflora's Cirilia Alca (=kovachii x dalesandroi) were in bloom, so I took a picture of both for comparison.

Phrag. Fritz Schomburg 'Peach Parfait':







Phrag. Peruflora's Cirilia Alca:






One noticeable difference I noticed is that the inside rim of Phrag. Fritz Schomburg is all yellow, while the rim of Peruflora's Cirilia Alca has red veins, and two noticable "eyes" towards the base (close to the flower) of the rim, also the staminodal shield of Phrag. Fritz Schomburg is more yellow, as Peruflora Cirilia Alca has more color:






Robert


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## Shiva (Aug 25, 2010)

Magnificient flowers Robert. :drool::drool::drool:
Are the flowers of these crosses mostly of good form or are there significant variation in quality? Also, I would like to see the whole plants so I can guess how long I need to wait for mines to flower. Thanks for showing us these beauties. It's always a thrill.
Michel


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## Chuck (Aug 25, 2010)

Great flowers. I have both crosses. If they're any thing like yours, I'll be happy.


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## Drorchid (Aug 25, 2010)

Shiva said:


> Magnificient flowers Robert. :drool::drool::drool:
> Are the flowers of these crosses mostly of good form or are there significant variation in quality? Also, I would like to see the whole plants so I can guess how long I need to wait for mines to flower. Thanks for showing us these beauties. It's always a thrill.
> Michel



In general, the flowers have been pretty uniform in quality, when it comes to variation from flower to flower within these 2 crosses. We also had a bunch of Phrag. Haley Deckers, and we have noticed much more variation within that cross. I think in general you will see less variation within a cross if it is a Primary versus a a more complex cross.
Here you go; both plants are growing in a 3.25" pot, it looks like the Phrag. Fritz Schomburg already bloomed on the first growth, as the Peruflora Cirilia Alca is blooming for the first time on its second growth. 

Fritz Schomburg:





Peruflora Cirilia Alca:





Robert


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## Shiva (Aug 25, 2010)

Just wonderful Robert. I'm still spellbound. :smitten:


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## KyushuCalanthe (Aug 25, 2010)

Digging on both, but the petals and dorsal on Fritz Schomburg are just dreamy...I mean, that's the kind of flower you really wish for. :clap:


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## John M (Aug 25, 2010)

These are super! Thanks for posting. I kinda like the Peruflora's Cirilia Alca more than the other....which surprises me.


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## SlipperFan (Aug 25, 2010)

I love the color on both of these, but the shape of Fritz Schomburg looks perfect to me.


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## Hera (Aug 25, 2010)

Wow, I'm afraid to ry to grow these, but ...WOW!


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## Yoyo_Jo (Aug 25, 2010)

Yup, while I think they're both beautifuu, I'm partial to Fritz too. HP Norton was carrying one of those around (in bloom) at the Slipper Symposium last year and I fell in love then and there ..:smitten: With Fritz, that is.


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## tenman (Aug 25, 2010)

The Fritz Schomburg is incredible, but also somewhat disappointing as to color. I would have hoped for more purple/pink to come through, as evidently did in the Peruflora Cirila Alca, Can you tell us the width of these flowers?


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## rdlsreno (Aug 25, 2010)

Very Interesting!

Thanks Robert.

Ramon


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## Jorch (Aug 26, 2010)

I love the peachy color on the Fritz and the pure yellow inner rim!


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## NYEric (Aug 26, 2010)

:drool:


Yay besseae... Oh hell!


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## JeanLux (Aug 26, 2010)

I do like both blooms a lot!!!! Fritz for its shape and the other one esp. for the color!!! Jean

(I hope my Fritz will have nearby as nice blooms as this one)


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## e-spice (Aug 26, 2010)

Thanks for posting these. It is a exciting time to be a phrag grower. While kovachii will add some good features to the hybrids, I don't think it will ever surpass besseae in terms of relevance in hybridizing.

It is surprising to me that the vibrant color of besseae + the vibrant color of kovachii = a pastel color flower!

e-wpice


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## wojtek (Aug 26, 2010)

:clap::drool::smitten::clap::drool::smitten::clap::drool::smitten:


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## Bolero (Aug 26, 2010)

I love both flowers, would be happy to own them......more than happy.


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## Phrag-Plus (Aug 26, 2010)

e-spice said:


> Thanks for posting these. It is a exciting time to be a phrag grower. While kovachii will add some good features to the hybrids, I don't think it will ever surpass besseae in terms of relevance in hybridizing.
> 
> It is surprising to me that the vibrant color of besseae + the vibrant color of kovachii = a pastel color flower!
> 
> e-wpice



Wow! Very nice flowers! I like the surprising Fritz Schomburg coloration...
Asking myself the same question as e-spice....


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## PaphMadMan (Aug 26, 2010)

I'm happy to see that pastel colors are possible in these first generation hybrids. Saturated colors may show up as more are bloomed out, but should be easy to get back to in the next generation at least. Pastels might have been harder to obtain. I'm happy to see the infuence of the kovachii shape too. I'm tired of people raving over hybrids that really might as well be a big red besseae.


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## ohio-guy (Aug 26, 2010)

Robert, 
do you see this as further evidence that besseae and delasenroi are indeed two different species, since the progeny of the hybridization yeilded such different results? 
Or is the variation within each respective cross great enough that this only represents two extremes?
Maybe we need to see a larger sample. 
Was the parent Kovachii the same plant?


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## Drorchid (Aug 26, 2010)

ohio-guy said:


> Robert,
> do you see this as further evidence that besseae and delasenroi are indeed two different species, since the progeny of the hybridization yeilded such different results?
> Or is the variation within each respective cross great enough that this only represents two extremes?
> Maybe we need to see a larger sample.
> Was the parent Kovachii the same plant?




The variation within each cross has been very slim, they all look pretty much the same, so in this case yes the variation within the cross was much smaller than the variation between the crosses. I personally have always been in the camp that besseae and dalesandroi are the same species, but just that dalesandroi is a subspecies or a variety of besseae, seeing this big of a difference between the two hybrids does make me believe that they are two separate species.

I think the kovachii used, were two different plants.

Robert


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## toddybear (Aug 26, 2010)

Gorgeous! My Fritz is on the second growth...no bloom yet


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## eOrchids (Aug 26, 2010)

Gorgeous blooms!

Can't for mine to bloom!


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## GuRu (Aug 26, 2010)

JeanLux said:


> I do like both blooms a lot!!!! Fritz for its shape and the other one esp. for the color!!! Jean...


Jean, I'm with you. I completely second this!!


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## John M (Aug 26, 2010)

The Fritz Schomburg has a besseae "look" about it. The PCA has a dalesandroi "look" about it. Plus, the staminode sheilds are vastly different. I've always thought of besseae and dalesandroi as different species and this thread just helps to confirm in my mind that they are indeed different.


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## NYEric (Aug 26, 2010)

Judas! :sob:


PaphMadMan said:


> I'm tired of people raving over hybrids that really might as well be a big red besseae.


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## Kevin (Aug 27, 2010)

Yay kovachii hybrids!!:clap::drool:


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## Kevin (Aug 27, 2010)

Very nice, Robert! Thanks for posting! You were saying there is not much variation within the crosses. I looked back at the previous pictures you posted of other Fritz Schomburgs, and to me, they look different. 'Pink Princess' and 'Prairie Rose' to me, look a lot different than 'Peach Parfait'. Maybe it's just me.


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## NYEric (Aug 27, 2010)

Kevin said:


> Yay kovachii hybrids!!:clap::drool:



!!!


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## slippertalker (Aug 27, 2010)

I've only bloomed a couple of Fritz Schomburgs and they were soft pink to rose pink. They did vary a bit, and from what I hear, the pink ones lean to kovachii in size and the orange-red ones are closer to besseae. So there is both a size and color spectrum. Also, using yellow besseae blooms even lighter colored flowers. I would not, however, expect the spectrum of shapes and sizes with more complex parentage.


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## SlipperKing (Aug 28, 2010)

PaphMadMan said:


> I'm happy to see that pastel colors are possible in these first generation hybrids. Saturated colors may show up as more are bloomed out, but should be easy to get back to in the next generation at least. Pastels might have been harder to obtain. I'm happy to see the infuence of the kovachii shape too. I'm tired of people raving over hybrids that really might as well be a big red besseae.



I'm with you Kirk, esp. on your last point. Thanks Robert for the comparative post. It's refreshing to see a new "look" in the red spectrum of Phrags.


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## Drorchid (Aug 29, 2010)

Kevin said:


> Very nice, Robert! Thanks for posting! You were saying there is not much variation within the crosses. I looked back at the previous pictures you posted of other Fritz Schomburgs, and to me, they look different. 'Pink Princess' and 'Prairie Rose' to me, look a lot different than 'Peach Parfait'. Maybe it's just me.



Actually both the 'Pink Princess' and the 'Prarie Rose' were from a different cross compared to the 'Peach Parfait', they were besseae flavum x kovachii. This Fritz Schomburg was made with a regular besseae, so that is why they look different. Within the cross of the regular besseae, all the plants looked pretty similar.

Robert


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## Hera (Sep 4, 2010)

PaphMadMan said:


> I'm happy to see that pastel colors are possible in these first generation hybrids. Saturated colors may show up as more are bloomed out, but should be easy to get back to in the next generation at least. Pastels might have been harder to obtain. I'm happy to see the infuence of the kovachii shape too. I'm tired of people raving over hybrids that really might as well be a big red besseae.



With so many excellent red hybrids out there, its nice to see a different direction in phrag breeding. BTW I like the relaxed kovachii form.


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## abax (Aug 13, 2016)

Oh my gracious, such beautiful blooms and all seem quite
consistent in form to my untrained eye. This is a very good
comparison for those of us who are learning about all the
wonderful Phrags. available and the new directions in breeding.


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