# What Do You Think of This Incident? Different Culture or Individual Preference?



## Happypaphy7 (Mar 20, 2016)

Yesterday afternoon, I was riding a rather crowded subway to downtown.
This woman, a white (I put this to help understand cultural background as different ethnic groups within the same country can have different culture or public etiquette.) woman in her mid 60 at least, just stepped into the busy subway car carrying three bags on her shoulders. One of the bags was quite big.

A young latino girl in her late teens or early twenties looked at this woman and seemed she thought nothing of the situation.

In Korea, someone would have immediately stood up and offered the seat.
However, I think the common sense regardless of cultural background, is to offer seats to the elderly, pregnant, handicapped, or persons with heavy loads. 

Maybe the young girl had a very long day, or just one of those rude NY brats. lol

At a next stop, someone stood up and got off, and this now fresh empty seat was gladly taken up by the older white woman.

At the next stop, this young mom, a white woman in her late 20s to early 30s with her child of about 5 yo, came in with no other baggages with her.
The older white woman offered her seat, and the young white mom *without an instant of hesitation*, happily shouted "Oh, thank you!" and seated her little one. 

This second episode is what really struck me in two regards.

One, why would an elderly woman carrying three big bags offer her seat to a little kid? I mean it was not like she was a toddler who could barely walk, either. 

Two, the young white mom who took the seat. Maybe to her, her little child is the most important thing in the world? Or maybe her little one had a bad ankle? then why are they out? Actually, no, I saw them both running into the subway car as the doors were closing.

What do you guys all think of this?

I asked a few of my friends whose cultural backgrounds range from Germany, Sweden, Italy, and America, a New Yorker at that, and all had the same answer: The younger mom should have at least kindly refused the offer once. 

To me, this thoughtless young mom not only had poor sense of public etiquette, but missed a great opportunity to teach her little one about respect for others.


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## NYEric (Mar 20, 2016)

I understand where you're coming from. I usually give up my subway seat but yesterday it was just too crowded and a hassle. I don't expect any of today's younger generation to have the manners that were instilled in me. As for the young mother, yes her precious childwas her main concern. I would have sat and placed the child on my lap.


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## troy (Mar 20, 2016)

This day and age respect and ettiquite do not exist, and thats the way it is, ever see anybody disciplining their kids, they can't because the state will take them for abuse.........


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## ehanes7612 (Mar 20, 2016)

I have on several occasions witnessed young people offering their seat to older people ..and the older person getting pissed off and refusing the seat. Never underestimate the power of pride. Bus culture is just weird...you never know what you are going to get. It's such a short time in people's lives, and one never knows what is going on in a person's head to make any valid assumptions about society in general. In seattle, we have laws about seating on buses...certain people have priorities on seating in the front (elderly, pregnant, physically impaired, etc)..but I think the law has created some kind of backlash to courtesy for the rest of the seats..and with everything being so fast paced these days..people get on the bus and just zone out and turn off their attention to their surroundings


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## troy (Mar 20, 2016)

In sacramento if you walk down a busy street and don't move out of the way of the person in the way, the response is f#/! You, you stupid honckey and get stabbed lol.. thats the way the new generation is, if you don't beleive me come over here and try it, my girlfriend with her 2 kids almost got beat up by 2 big girls in a store because she didn't move out of the way fast enough, everybody is corteus in a perfect world but this is far from it


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## Happypaphy7 (Mar 20, 2016)

Well, I've seen that happen here, too. like the old person who was offered seat was like, 'wht, I'm not that old yet!' lol stupid. I was like 'just get the good intention and sit you ass down!'. lol

I wish people would take some time to think about what they are doing.
I mean, how would they like it when they get older and get treated not so nicely? 

BTW, you should always stay alert in public in NYC, or else where but especially here I guess.
You never know when some stupid crazy person will start shooting. :rollhappy:

Troy- Yeah, it is sad how discipline is not being done enough. I see it all the time. Little kids do this and that in public, and their parent are right there but not saying a thing! Those parents are not helping make the world a better place for everyone.


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## cnycharles (Mar 20, 2016)

People very often defer to mothers with kids. Many of the much older generation have more etiquette, and like Troy pointed out people who have grown up in more hard circumstances are not looking to be nice because it often was never shown to them. But it's not just any one class; I've heard about famous people in cities running people over without concern because they were trying to catch a cab etc

The joy of post modernism is that there is nothing at the end and survival goes to the fittest, and whoever gets the mostest and gets there the fastest and most style, wins. Life is hard, it's better to help those around get along than to knock them out of your way but if nobody teaches then concern can get left behind. But even that said, I've seen young people who live in tough family circumstances and all and have had no good guide shine despite their upbringing 


Elmer Nj


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## PaphMadMan (Mar 20, 2016)

I'm not a parent, but in that situation my instinct would be to do what is best for my kid. In a public place that means putting them where I can keep track of them at all times, like in a seat where I can block them from getting up. A subway car with people constantly jostling and getting on and off would seem to be one of the most vulnerable places possible for an opportunistic child abduction. I'm sure the seat is also a physically safer place for the kid if there is an accident or rough ride. The older woman made this choice, and I'm sure she is better aware of her own physical needs than you, and might just put a kid's safety ahead of her own comfort.


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## Happypaphy7 (Mar 20, 2016)

Good point! makes sense.

but how common is a thing like child abduction??
I'm curious.


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## PaphMadMan (Mar 21, 2016)

Happypaphy7 said:


> Good point! makes sense.
> 
> but how common is a think like child abduction??
> I'm curious.



In the US... Something like 200,000+ by family members and 50,000+ by non-family per year, though most are recovered quickly. About 125 per year are subjects of serious or prolonged stranger kidnapping, plus 7000 or so prolonged family abductions.


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## emydura (Mar 21, 2016)

I would have graciously declined the old woman's offer. 

It reminds me of when I was a teenager and there was a relatively young woman standing in a bus in front of me. My brother came from another part of the bus and told me that mum says you have to stand up for the lady. I was being a total pratt and told him I didn't want to. When we got off the bus my mother scolded me informing me that the lady was heavily pregnant (which I hadn't picked up on as I was in a bit of a trance). I was so ashamed. I think I'm still scarred from that incident. I still reflect on it. I certainly always stood up for an older person or someone more needy after that.


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## NYEric (Mar 21, 2016)

If my mother sent a direction via a sibling and I didn't follow the direction, the alacrity with which that response would have reached my mother, and the subsequent beating, would have been impressive!


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## Happypaphy7 (Mar 21, 2016)

PaphMadMan said:


> In the US... Something like 200,000+ by family members and 50,000+ by non-family per year, though most are recovered quickly. About 125 per year are subjects of serious or prolonged stranger kidnapping, plus 7000 or so prolonged family abductions.



Wow~ those are some serious numbers.
I don't understand why family members will kidnap their own.
I mean, what are they going to do with stolen kids who are related?


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## Happypaphy7 (Mar 21, 2016)

NYEric said:


> If my mother sent a direction via a sibling and I didn't follow the direction, the alacrity with which that response would have reached my mother, and the subsequent beating, would have been impressive!



That's how it should be! :rollhappy:

Jokes aside, I think some of these kids today need some serious discipline but many parents are not doing the job!!!


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## Happypaphy7 (Mar 21, 2016)

emydura said:


> I would have graciously declined the old woman's offer.
> 
> It reminds me of when I was a teenager and there was a relatively young woman standing in a bus in front of me. My brother came from another part of the bus and told me that mum says you have to stand up for the lady. I was being a total pratt and told him I didn't want to. When we got off the bus my mother scolded me informing me that the lady was heavily pregnant (which I hadn't picked up on as I was in a bit of a trance). I was so ashamed. I think I'm still scarred from that incident. I still reflect on it. I certainly always stood up for an older person or someone more needy after that.



Great story! 

Thanks!


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## abax (Mar 21, 2016)

I was raised by both my mother and an African-American
woman and with two mothers, manners and consideration
for others was mandatory. Rudeness would have gotten
my butt smacked in a hurry! I don't see a lot of good
parenting these days.


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## Happypaphy7 (Mar 21, 2016)

abax said:


> I was raised by both my mother and an African-American
> woman and with two mothers, manners and consideration
> for others was mandatory. Rudeness would have gotten
> my butt smacked in a hurry! I don't see a lot of good
> parenting these days.



Exactly!

It is so frustrating to see all these irresponsible and selfish parents in my neighborhood, they either do nothing about their kids doing something not too nice, or merely just "Spencer, no", "Jenny, what did mommy say?" and that's just it. and their kids just keep on doing crazy things. 
Some of them are literally just raising wild animals! 

I think there is a huge difference between child abuse and quick spank or smack. It is such a shame. 

I don't think kids at very young age can "converse" like adults and reason everything. They just don't.
This is when quick pain can "tell" them everything they need to know at certain needed moments. Very efficient and long lasting, usually life time.
They just instantly "understand" that certain things are not to be done. 

Let me share with you a good one.
This was about a year ago.
While waiting for a tram (this is like a cable car that carries people over a river to a tiny island where I live) one afternoon, these two obnoxious boys were running around and making lots of noise at the waiting area. A lot of noise!
The waiting area can hold about 50 people, so not that big.
There were only about 6 or 7 people that particular time, including the kids and their mom who was sitting on the bench nearby doing nothing other than playing some stupid games on her smart phone. 
I kid you not, these boys were just insanely annoying. 
I couldn't believe the mom was not doing anything like she's deaf or something.
My frustration built up fast. 
I kept looking around and other people looked bothered but they were being civilized nice Americans. 
Everyone was White, except there was middle age black woman and me, Asian. 

Soon, these kids took the craziness level to a next one, and they started to hit the glass wall that are meant to protect people from falling over. 
There were visible signs saying do not lean. I mean even without such sign, it should be a common sense, and these kids were not that little, either.
I would say 7 or 8 years old, both of them.
I was standing quite close to this glass wall, and they ran around me like I was not there. then they started to lick the wall and screaming all at the same time, alternating running around. Yeah, quite crazy. 
At one point, I gave them this sharp look hinting them to stop.
Well, that didn't work. I guess they never got that kind of look from their mom. 
I looked at the mom, again, one last time. No news there.
Finally, my frustration went over the roof. I just could not stand it any more.

I yelled at the crazy boys "STOP!!!!!!!" like really really really reeeeeally loudly. 
Two boys instantly stopped and just froze while looking up at me with their eyes wide open. 
Then, they disappeared over to their mom. 
I sort of was expecting a fight with this senseless mom would be the next event, and I was ready, too, but luckily, the mom did not do anything.
Wise mom made the right decision to leave me alone. 

Then, a few days later, the same black woman saw me at the tram, and she thanked me. She said, "oh, my those crazy boys, I was really hoping that someone would say something, but you made my day!"


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## PaphMadMan (Mar 22, 2016)

Happypaphy7 said:


> Wow~ those are some serious numbers.
> I don't understand why family members will kidnap their own.
> I mean, what are they going to do with stolen kids who are related?



Family abductions usually involve a child custody issue.


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## NYEric (Mar 22, 2016)

Yes, parents who are unable to cope wiht their childrens' behavior and allow them to act like animals are a big problem.


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## SFLguy (Mar 22, 2016)

I definitely agree that those kids need to be disciplined, but after the numerous studies that have shown how bad physical discipline is, I think they should be disciplined in another manner


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## abax (Mar 22, 2016)

And to that, SFLGuy, I say bullshit! A smack on the behind
is not abuse. It's a reminder that there are other people
in the world who deserve decent behavior.

Happy, you will rarely see the Oriental regard for manners and consideration for others in America as
you did in Asia. Asian countries have had thousands of
years of cultural adaptation. America is still the wild
west by comparison.


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## SFLguy (Mar 23, 2016)

I never said it was abuse and I myself experienced it as well. That being said, I now think that the mark of a great parent is good discipline without physical discipline.
I used to believe very strongly in a couple of smacks to make a child behave, the studies I've seen have caused me to reconsider.


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## PaphMadMan (Mar 23, 2016)

When kids act up in public I figure it is the parents that need a strong smack upside the head, not the kids.


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