# OK. Now this is just wierd



## Ray (Apr 19, 2014)

Photo posted to [email protected] of roots of Cattleya trianiae - same thing has happened to C. violacea.

Anyone have any idea what it might be?

By the way - *these are not my plants!*


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## gonewild (Apr 19, 2014)

OK that is weird!
Open one up to see if there is a worm inside.


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## SlipperFan (Apr 19, 2014)

gonewild said:


> OK that is weird!
> Open one up to see if there is a worm inside.


That's what I was thinking. Looks like some kind of gall.


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## Secundino (Apr 20, 2014)

K-lite pellets.


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## PaphMadMan (Apr 20, 2014)

I would suspect use of some kind of hormonal product, or something that acted as a hormone analog. Unless there is some kind of gall insect in there...


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## Ray (Apr 20, 2014)

It happened on two plants simultaneously, which suggests a cultural issue, not insects, to me.


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## gonewild (Apr 20, 2014)

Ray said:


> It happened on two plants simultaneously, which suggests a cultural issue, not insects, to me.



I would think the opposite? 
If cultural why on only two plants?
On two plants at same time suggests an insect attack on just those plants.

Several of the roots appear to have an entrance/exit hole?

Open up one of the nodes and see what is inside. You may see a hollow area that would be from an insect that has left or you may find a larvae.

What possible cultural explanation can you think of?


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## ehanes7612 (Apr 20, 2014)

an evolutionary attempt to harness the pollen transfer abilities of white swans?


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## quietaustralian (Apr 20, 2014)

http://www.sel.barc.usda.gov/hym/chalcids/eurytomid/EuryAroids.html or something similar?


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## lepetitmartien (Apr 20, 2014)

The diameter change is a bit too much to be just a nice buffet the Catt has fed on. Even with a deviant chemical in sight.

I'd vote for the gall.

And the winner is?


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## Erythrone (Apr 20, 2014)

I vote for a gall too!


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## gonewild (Apr 20, 2014)

Could be some type of nematode. But strange the single swollen gall on each root end. Root Knot Nematode is different shapes.


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## naoki (Apr 20, 2014)

I've never seen something like that in orchids, but it looks like a hormonal disorder. I believe some of the gall forming insects, pathogen and bacteria manipulate the plant hormones to produce galls. So it is a possibility. But it could be some internal disorder within plants (or some external hormones applied by human). This is not exactly related to the case of Cattleya: http://www.plantcell.org/content/21/9/2553.full
But, it shows that auxin-related abnormality can cause root galls.


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## Heather (Apr 20, 2014)

Well, I'm sure curious!


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## kellyincville (Apr 20, 2014)

ehanes7612 said:


> an evolutionary attempt to harness the pollen transfer abilities of white swans?



lol


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## Ozpaph (Apr 21, 2014)

chop, chop, chop


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## eteson (Apr 21, 2014)

Not wierd to me...
I am with Lance and quietaustralian... If you open one you would see a small (1mm) white worm inside or even a developing small black "fly".
This occurs from time to time to me (only in Cattleya). I use a systemic insecticide to avoid this problem but it comes back sometimes.


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## gonewild (Apr 21, 2014)

eteson said:


> Not wierd to me...
> I am with Lance and quietaustralian... If you open one you would see a small (1mm) white worm inside or even a developing small black "fly".
> This occurs from time to time to me (only in Cattleya). I use a systemic insecticide to avoid this problem but it comes back sometimes.



When you see this is it always at the root tip? Does the root tip die?
Maybe this is a new "Pest" for the USA?


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## eteson (Apr 21, 2014)

gonewild said:


> When you see this is it always at the root tip? Does the root tip die?
> Maybe this is a new "Pest" for the USA?



Usually the root tip die... but sometimes the root keeps growing, specially if the plant has been treated with systemic pesticide...

I can take some pictures later.


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## gonewild (Apr 21, 2014)

eteson said:


> Usually the root tip die... but sometimes the root keeps growing, specially if the plant has been treated with systemic pesticide...
> 
> I can take some pictures later.



Please show pictures!


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## Ray (Apr 21, 2014)

Very good, folks. I'm leaning toward the insects, now.


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## eteson (Apr 21, 2014)

Some Pictures:
I could not find alive larvae in my plants, neither fresh gall, which means that my plaguicide is working fine.
My advice is to remove the galls and destroy it asap.
Are those plants growing with you for a while or are new adquisitions?


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## quietaustralian (Apr 21, 2014)

Excellent pics. 
I understand why some consider it weird, I haven't seen galls like this on orchids. 

Mick


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## Ray (Apr 21, 2014)

Lance suggested I clarify that those are *not my plants* - I was trying to help out another grower by posting to this forum, where I know the average level of experience and intelligence is pretty high.

The plants in question reside in Argentina.


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## gonewild (Apr 21, 2014)

I would suggest that if the plants are in the USA the owner should report the infestation to the Agriculture Dept, just in case this is a new invasive insect species from "Columbia".


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## gonewild (Apr 21, 2014)

Thanks Eliseo for the great pictures that pretty much solves the puzzle.


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## orcoholic (Apr 21, 2014)

Ray said:


> Lance suggested I clarify that those are *not my plants* - I was trying to help out another grower by posting to this forum, where I know the average level of experience and intelligence is pretty high.
> 
> The plants in question reside in Argentina.



Yeah, sure Ray.


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## gonewild (Apr 21, 2014)

Ray said:


> The plants in question reside in Argentina.



That's far enough away from USA.


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## Ray (Apr 21, 2014)

The original photo was shared on the mailing list [email protected], and I figured y'all would be able to help.


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## naoki (Apr 21, 2014)

Eliseo's photos look similar to these:

http://www.sel.barc.usda.gov/hym/chalcids/eurytomid/EuryAroids.html

Mostly in S. & C. America.

Did you by any chance ID's the insect species? The original photos look a bit different, but they may be at the different stage of infection. There is a reference to Kraus & Tanoue 1999, which studied this gall in C. guttata, so it might give some additional info.


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## Ozpaph (Apr 22, 2014)

great photos and very educational. thanks


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## eteson (Apr 22, 2014)

naoki said:


> Eliseo's photos look similar to these:
> 
> http://www.sel.barc.usda.gov/hym/chalcids/eurytomid/EuryAroids.html
> 
> ...



In my case it is a small black wasp... but I have not Identified the species.
The galls of my pictures are about nine months old, and now the plants are pest free... but if you are interested i can get some specimens to be identified since this plague is very common here in Columbia.


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## bullsie (Apr 22, 2014)

As the amount of pests are being introduced to the U.S. :crazy:, I foresee another 'monster' in my orchids. :viking:


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## eteson (Apr 22, 2014)

bullsie said:


> As the amount of pests are being introduced to the U.S. :crazy:, I foresee another 'monster' in my orchids. :viking:



Introduction of foreign species involves some risks... oke:


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## Trithor (Apr 27, 2014)

Have the root swellings in the original picture been cut and opened yet? I am interested to see if it is the same thing.


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