# more confusion... now regarding Phrag. Grande..



## Drorchid (Jan 4, 2013)

Ok, I just noticed the latest change by the orchid registrar..

"Phrag. grande" is the natural hybrid between Phrag. longifolium and Phrag. caudatum. Nothing has been changed about that...

"Phrag. Grande" for over 100 years was known as the man-made hybrid between Phrag. longifolium and Phrag. caudatum.

Now, is where it gets confusing.... If you look up on the RHS website:

http://apps.rhs.org.uk/horticulturaldatabase/orchidregister/orchidregister.asp

and look up what Phrag. caudatum x Phrag. longifolium is, it has been registered by Olaf Gruss as "Phrag. Leslie Garay"!

According to the RHS (and Olaf Gruss) the parents of Phrag. Grande are now Phrag. hartwegii and Phrag. caudatum. Can you imagine all the confusion and mislabeling this is going to create, especially with all 53 hybrids made with (formely known as) Phrag. Grande... When those hybrids were registered with Phrag. Grande as one of the parents, was it the (now) "true Phrag. Grande" (hartwegii x longifolium) or the hybrid "formely known as Phrag Grande" (longifolium x caudatum)... who is going to sort this all out?? if you look at any of the hybrids on the RHS website, they are still listed as Phrag Grande being the parent. 

Robert


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## nikv (Jan 4, 2013)

This is a totally stupid decision upon the RHS. Apparently they don't learn from past mistakes. They should just make an exception to the rules of precedence and let Grande be longifolium x caudatum due to it's almost universal usage. But that's just my opinion which obviously doesn't count in the world of taxonomy. :wink:


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## NYEric (Jan 4, 2013)

:rollhappy: Pass the rum!!


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## SlipperFan (Jan 4, 2013)

This is just absolutely ridiculous. I agree with Nik.


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## SlipperKing (Jan 4, 2013)

I agree with Eric....Where in the hell is that rum?


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## mrhappyrotter (Jan 4, 2013)

I have a treasured Phrag. Super Grande. Does this mean it's now Phrag. Super Leslie Garayis (j/k)?

Anybody else going to update their tags to reflect this change? I'm tempted.


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## slippertalker (Jan 5, 2013)

mrhappyrotter said:


> I have a treasured Phrag. Super Grande. Does this mean it's now Phrag. Super Leslie Garayis (j/k)?
> 
> Anybody else going to update their tags to reflect this change? I'm tempted.



How are we to know which varieties of longifolium and caudatum were used in the past? Who is going to determine correctly identified hartwegii as opposed to longifolium or other varieties of longifolium.

This is past the point of ridiculous........leave your tags alone and let the registrar play his games.


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## Shiva (Jan 5, 2013)

Some people have too much time on their hands.


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## tomkalina (Jan 5, 2013)

I agree with Bill, leave your tags alone. Taxonomy in the modern age appears to have become more art than science.......


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## SlipperFan (Jan 5, 2013)

tomkalina said:


> I agree with Bill, leave your tags alone. Taxonomy in the modern age appears to have become more art than science.......


That is exactly my intention. The changes in Cattleya and Oncidium alliances is bad enough...!!!
And of course, now Doritis/Doritaenopsis is now Phalaenopsis.


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## Roy (Jan 6, 2013)

Not changing my labels either, I'm passed it also ( prefer Bourbon).
Big enough problem with Laeliinea, Odont to Oncid & Ascocentrum to Vanda.


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## goldenrose (Jan 6, 2013)

It amazes me over & over in so many situations, the loss of common sense & logic.
As long as I'm alive & the plants affected,I'm not changing any tags EVER ....
have petitions been tried in the past? Can you image how many they'd receive? Would it knock some sense into them?


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## quietaustralian (Jan 6, 2013)

You'd think the RHS would update the grexes affected by this change, I did some searches with Phrag. Leslie Garay as a parent and there was nothing. It's ok to just leave the tags as they are if your not breeding but I'm sure the RHS won't accept registrations with the old name/names.


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## Ruth (Jan 7, 2013)

I got my Grande almost 10 years ago as a seedling. I have tried to kill it twice, and now it is doing quite well. With all the work I have put into it, I'm sure not going to change the name now!


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## Secundino (Jan 7, 2013)

It's ridiculous. I perfectly understand the need of correct differentiation. And the change of names is something we have to live with. But there is no scientific need to create a new species or a new (taxonomic) variety every single time a plant with new 'aspects' appears. Apart from personal reasons, of course. A playground of fame.


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