# My very first Fukiran!



## John Boy (Jun 7, 2011)

This is my very first, and self achieved Fukiran. I’ve had the plant for 2 years (got it in a trade), and now it’s finally there. Over the winter it started the new growths and quite a few new roots. I don’t really know what it is, and I don’t care too much about it to be honest. It’s my first, and knowing that I have been using the wrong pot, as well as the wrong moss I wanted to share it nonetheless. The old moss was starting to get messy, and I unfortunately had no 5star moss at hand. So I just used what I had available, which is my ordinary Dracula and Restrepia moss, and repotted it the best I could for the shoot. 
Now that I’ve done the first I’m planning to get a few more, and for whatever reason I don’t understand, I like the bean-leafs. So, Jerry or Glenn will sort me out, I suppose.

I hope you like the pictures!


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## Wendelin (Jun 7, 2011)

Well done!
I love the second one best, directly followed by the fourth :clap:


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## NYEric (Jun 7, 2011)

I remember my first, she was a wild women taking advantage of a college freshman! :evil:


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## SlipperFan (Jun 7, 2011)

That's beautiful!

I love the lighting in your second photo.


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## Clark (Jun 7, 2011)

Awesome!


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## Heather (Jun 7, 2011)

Nice photos and great job! Looking forward to hearing what new ones you'll be getting!


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## Hera (Jun 7, 2011)

Beautifully photographed!!


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## W. Beetus (Jun 7, 2011)

Beautiful, white blooms!


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## goldenrose (Jun 9, 2011)

SlipperFan said:


> That's beautiful!
> 
> I love the lighting in your second photo.


:drool::drool: GORGEOUS!!! :drool::drool:


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## paphioboy (Jun 9, 2011)

yes, I agree.. Second pic is the best..   How big is the leafspan?


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## jjkOC (Jun 9, 2011)

Very pretty!


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## John Boy (Jun 10, 2011)

Thanks for your kind remarks. I'm trying hard to take better pictures.
@Paphioboy: The old fan is 16,5cm at it's widest crossing.


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## SlipperFan (Jun 10, 2011)

John Boy said:


> Thanks for your kind remarks. I'm trying hard to take better pictures.
> ...



You are succeeding.


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## tenman (Jun 10, 2011)

Looks a lot like Neofinetia falcata. Are you sure you got the name right?


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## KyushuCalanthe (Jun 11, 2011)

Very nice lighting effects. If you keep going, it is all down hill from here :rollhappy:


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## Wendelin (Jun 11, 2011)

tenman said:


> Looks a lot like Neofinetia falcata. Are you sure you got the name right?



Hi tenman!
Neofinetia falcata is the sientific/latin name.
Fuukiran/Fuuran the japanese name !


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## tenman (Jun 11, 2011)

Wendelin said:


> Hi tenman!
> Neofinetia falcata is the sientific/latin name.
> Fuukiran/Fuuran the japanese name !



Thanks. Perhaps it would be clearer if you led with the scientific name like other posters rather than a horticultural epithet. Just a suggestion.


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## Lanmark (Jun 11, 2011)

tenman said:


> Thanks. Perhaps it would be clearer if you led with the scientific name like other posters rather than a horticultural epithet. Just a suggestion.



Well, perhaps yes, but those of us at this forum who are Neofinetia falcata enthusiasts have been tossing that term around here since 2007. The Japanese, of course, have been calling this plant by that name since at least the 1600s. To enthusiasts around here it's no different than calling a Paphiopedilum a Slipper Orchid or a Paph. To the Japanese, Fuuran, Fukiran and Fukurin _are_ considered to be the formal names for these plants, and the Japanese take their Fukiran _very_ seriously! You've learned something new because of all this, too, haven't you?! oke: :wink:


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## tenman (Jun 11, 2011)

Lanmark said:


> Well, perhaps yes, but those of us at this forum who are Neofinetia falcata enthusiasts have been tossing that term around here since 2007. The Japanese, of course, have been calling this plant by that name since at least the 1600s. To enthusiasts around here it's no different than calling a Paphiopedilum a Slipper Orchid or a Paph. To the Japanese, Fuuran, Fukiran and Fukurin _are_ considered to be the formal names for these plants, and the Japanese take their Fukiran _very_ seriously! You've learned something new because of all this, too, haven't you?! oke: :wink:



Yes, a very small tidbit which does not change the reality if the plant's identity. The plant's name is still Neofinetia falcata, and it is confusing not use it. There is no reason not to do so. It would be akin to simply posting other slippers as 'Bob's Best' (instead of Paph.hirsutissimum 'Bob's Best') or 'Green Eye' (instead of Paph.helenae 'Green Eye'). 

Not a big deal, just poor form.


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## Sirius (Jun 12, 2011)

tenman said:


> Yes, a very small tidbit which does not change the reality if the plant's identity. The plant's name is still Neofinetia falcata, and it is confusing not use it. There is no reason not to do so. It would be akin to simply posting other slippers as 'Bob's Best' (instead of Paph.hirsutissimum 'Bob's Best') or 'Green Eye' (instead of Paph.helenae 'Green Eye').
> 
> Not a big deal, just poor form.



The scientific name is Neofinetia falcata, and it is also correct to call it fuuran/fuukiran. Maybe you should spend five minutes learning the history behind it, and stop criticizing something you obviously don't understand. It's not poor form at all.


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## huiray (Jun 12, 2011)

tenman said:


> Yes, a very small tidbit which does not change the reality if the plant's identity. The plant's name is still Neofinetia falcata, and it is confusing not use it. There is no reason not to do so.



Only to a Westerner who is not interested in things of a non-Western nature and who considers Eastern nomenclature to be largely of no interest or worth whatsoever.



tenman said:


> It would be akin to simply posting other slippers as 'Bob's Best' (instead of Paph.hirsutissimum 'Bob's Best') or 'Green Eye' (instead of Paph.helenae 'Green Eye').


This is simply wrong. "Fuukiran" is NOT a clonal name. It is the name of this type of orchid. In fact "Fuukiran" is more specific than "Neofinetia falcata" because the plants known in the Western binomial system by this latter name encompasses both "Fuukiran" and "Fuuran". Oh, BTW, binomial Latin names are not the universal norm. You should stop holding your nose so high and learn the right thing.



tenman said:


> Not a big deal, just poor form.


Your cultural arrogance is showing.


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## Lanmark (Jun 12, 2011)

tenman said:


> Yes, a very small tidbit which does not change the reality if the plant's identity. The plant's name is still Neofinetia falcata, and it is confusing not use it. There is no reason not to do so. It would be akin to simply posting other slippers as 'Bob's Best' (instead of Paph.hirsutissimum 'Bob's Best') or 'Green Eye' (instead of Paph.helenae 'Green Eye').
> 
> Not a big deal, just poor form.



Nope not a big deal to you, but not really poor form either. It's simply something you were not familiar with prior to now. Rather than seeing it as a very small tidbit of knowledge, you might want to take the time to learn what a big deal this actually is. These plants were called Fuukiran long before any name such as Neofinetia falcata was designated for them by Westerners. These plants have been prized, collected and cultivated for literally hundreds of years.

It's definitely not like posting just 'Green Eye' or 'Bob's Best' because those are specific cultivar names. Fukiran/Fuukiran is the all-encompassing formal designation for all Neofinetia falcata plants which are registered named varieties with the All Nippon Fuukiran Society. Fuuran is the formal designation for all non-registered N. falcata plants. Fukurin is the formal designation for all registered Neofinetia falcata varieties which have marginal variegation, the most revered form of Fuukiran.

To post simply 'Benisuzume', 'Ogonmaru' or 'Mangetsu' would be poor form since those are specific cultivar names which can apply not only to Neofinetia falcata plants but also to other Japanese species such as Dendrobium moniliforme.

The terms Fuuran, Fuukiran and Fukurin are *the* three centuries-old, formal, traditional, and significantly well-known Japanese designations which cumulatively cover all forms of a single highly-honored species with an incredibly long and detailed recorded history of cultivation. There can be no mistaking that any of these three terms refer to one thing and one thing only: Neofinetia falcata. The terms have become synonymous worldwide with the species Neofinetia falcata over the past couple of decades.

There are well over 2000 known named varieties of this single species which have been amassed over the centuries by means of collection, genetic drift, selective breeding, and selection. Every minute detail of each plant is taken into consideration when classifying, naming and judging these plants. Special Fuukiran charts are published annually. These are called the Meikan. The Japanese take their Fuukiran very seriously, and now so do people in Korea, China, Europe and the Americas. There are probably collectors on the other continents as well. 

This past year saw the first Japanese Style Judging of Fuukiran in the United States (Santa Barbara), and an American Fuukiran Society is in the works. This is a growing phenomenon which has its roots in the 17th century (or earlier).


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## chrismende (Jun 12, 2011)

I agree with those who complimented your lovely second photo! I was stopped in my tracks by it! All the photos are very nice. Congratulations on blooming the plant and making the pictures!
I am one of the newly excited by Neos ( to toss around another casual name ). Someone gave me two about a year ago and one is now blooming in my greenhouse. I must do them justice and repot them after they bloom!


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## Wendelin (Jun 12, 2011)

*Thanks to Lanmark! That says it all.*

Especially the following I didn't know


Lanmark said:


> Fukiran/Fuukiran is the all-encompassing formal designation for all Neofinetia falcata plants which are registered named varieties with the All Nippon Fuukiran Society. Fuuran is the formal designation for all non-registered N. falcata plants. Fukurin is the formal designation for all registered Neofinetia falcata varieties which have marginal variegation, the most revered form of Fuukiran.


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## myxodex (Jun 12, 2011)

Great photos, ... I really struggle with taking pics of white flowers !
You've been warned above, these little plants are addictive, charming and have an intriguing history and tradition in cultivation.

Thanks to Lanmark for the glossary on the F-words.


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## Sirius (Jun 12, 2011)

myxodex said:


> Thanks to Lanmark for the glossary on the F-words.



He drops F-bombs like nobody else on the forum. Always "fuuran" this, and "fuukiran" that.


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## Lanmark (Jun 12, 2011)

Sirius said:


> He drops F-bombs like nobody else on the forum. Always "fuuran" this, and "fuukiran" that.


:rollhappy:

You should probably also be advised that the "F" is pronounced verrrry softly, and in use, actually sounds to most speakers of English much more like an "H" with a slight "F impediment"


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## Sirius (Jun 12, 2011)

That's interesting to know. I don't usually get to hear the pronunciations of the orchids I am interested in. If I actually made it to an orchid society meeting, I would probably astound people by mispronouncing every single orchid name.

I do believe the pronunciation for Neofinetia is neo-fin-ay-sha, but for the longest time I called it Neo-fin-et-e-uh.


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## Lanmark (Jun 12, 2011)

Sirius said:


> That's interesting to know. I don't usually get to hear the pronunciations of the orchids I am interested in. If I actually made it to an orchid society meeting, I would probably astound people by mispronouncing every single orchid name.
> 
> I do believe the pronunciation for Neofinetia is neo-fin-ay-sha, but for the longest time I called it Neo-fin-et-e-uh.



Actually, I pronounced Neofinetia as "Neo-fin-ee-shya" for a very long time, but some of my biggest heroes in the world of Neos pronounce it as "Neo-fin-et-ee-uh" and so now I have taken up the latter form pronunciation for myself as well.  Does anyone out there wish to give their opinion on the correct way to say it? 

Getting back to the "F" word...imagine it sounding like this: "(f)Hoo-key-ron"
Now practice, practice, practice! :viking:


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## Heather (Jun 12, 2011)

Interesting thread this turned in to! Not that the photos weren't enough. I generally pronounce it "Neo-fin-et-ee-uh" as well.


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## John Boy (Jun 12, 2011)

tenman said:


> Yes, a very small tidbit which does not change the reality if the plant's identity. The plant's name is still Neofinetia falcata, and it is confusing not use it. There is no reason not to do so. It would be akin to simply posting other slippers as 'Bob's Best' (instead of Paph.hirsutissimum 'Bob's Best') or 'Green Eye' (instead of Paph.helenae 'Green Eye').
> 
> Not a big deal, just poor form.




Here is what I think:

On any normal given day I would tend to agree with you. 
In the case of Neofinetia falcata I would say that *other merits than the botanical ones overrule botanical aspects* by about the distance the earth has from the moon. It has been pointed out that it was _poor form_ to not just call these plants by their bot. taxon. *I would actually argue the other way around.* To just call these plants “Neofinetia falcata” is totally disrespectful of their true history, and what’s more: disrespecting every single breeders work involved with these plants, since the Middle Ages. 
Fuukiran is a distinct Japanese phenomenon, and it deserves and requires us (long-noses), to come to terms with the fact that we had no involvement in it’s cultivation and achievements whatsoever. All we’re left to do is to understand its’ complexity and its’ historical roots within horticulture. I guess that it would take the very best of us many many years to fully understand the entirety of what “Fuukiran” means to people like you and me. To appreciate what it means to the Japanese soul can most likely only be achieved by travelling Japan’s Gardens and countryside for a while. Only then would one come to learn about the spiritual aspects of that, what went into creating the modern concept of “Fuukiran”.

In my world *it would constitute the highest disrespect to any one nation or peoples, to simply call their national inheritance by any other name, than the name that culture gave to matter themselves. *


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## NYEric (Jun 12, 2011)

I'm sure no disrespect was meant. There are over 30,000 species of orchids and to learn the cultural distinctions and formal designations of all of them would be difficult, to say the least. I have learned from this thread and now will be more carefull when i refer to them if the distinctions are made. I can tell different phrag besseae crosses from each other because that's what i have chosen to specialize in, I would not be offended if you refered to them as Phrag besseae crosses, nor do I think long noses who develope them would be offended either.


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## tenman (Jun 12, 2011)

huiray said:


> Only to a Westerner who is not interested in things of a non-Western nature and who considers Eastern nomenclature to be largely of no interest or worth whatsoever.
> 
> 
> This is simply wrong. "Fuukiran" is NOT a clonal name. It is the name of this type of orchid. In fact "Fuukiran" is more specific than "Neofinetia falcata" because the plants known in the Western binomial system by this latter name encompasses both "Fuukiran" and "Fuuran". Oh, BTW, binomial Latin names are not the universal norm. You should stop holding your nose so high and learn the right thing.
> ...



Interesting to see those who favor and become excited about this issue are turning to personal insults. Most plants have indigenous names; calling all only by those would be utter confusion and useless. Do YOU know all the names of the more than one hundred types of Laelia purpurata the native population calls them?? Well?? The scientific names are necessary for just that reason. It doesn't remove the other names but allows for a better understanding of the evolution and relationships of the plants. I'm more interested in what the name tells me about the plant from a scientific standpoint. No matter how many names the different forms are given, they're still one species in the vanda alliance. I don't understand why that annoys some people so much that they take it personally and feel they have to insult others.

As for cultural arrogance, you don't know me, so keep your insults to yourself. You have no idea what my proclivites are. Favoring the scientific names of plants isn't cultural arrogance on my part, just logical. YOU'RE showing YOUR intemperance and arrogance. Choosing to use the scientific names has nothing to do with the evaluation of an entire culture, and to think so is absurd. As for cultural arrogance, assuming the entire world is interested or willing or has the time to learn all these names of all the varieties of one species in one small area of the world (and all the local names of all the varieties of all the other species in all the other parts of the world, to be fair) is cultural arrogance as is believing it takes precedence over a scientifically based method. There are thousands and thousands of cultures in the world. No one has the time to learn all about each and every one, and failing to do so is not arrogance. A system which allows all to cross-communicate about the plants, using the scientific names is the only viable solution. It in no way casts aspersions on any of those cultures but allows all to share information more readily.


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## Sirius (Jun 12, 2011)

Eric,

I don't think anyone would mind if you called them by Neofinetia or fuukiran. How many Neo's do you have? It's not enough, and you should get more. This coming from a guy who has none.

I remember fondly the days when you had to really push people around here to notice and respond to the Neo threads. Now they are commonplace.


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## Sirius (Jun 12, 2011)

tenman said:


> Interesting to see those who favor and become excited about this issue are turning to personal insults. Most plants have indigenous names; calling all only by those would be utter confusion and useless. Do YOU know all the names of the more than one hundred types of Laelia purpurata the native population calls them?? Well?? The scientific names are necessary for just that reason. It doesn't remove the other names but allows for a better understanding of the evolution and relationships of the plants. I'm more interested in what the name tells me about the plant from a scientific standpoint. No matter how many names the different forms are given, they're still one species in the vanda alliance. I don't understand why that annoys some people so much that they take it personally and feel they have to insult others.
> 
> As for cultural arrogance, you don't know me, so keep your insults to yourself. You have no idea what my proclivites are. Favoring the scientific names of plants isn't cultural arrogance on my part, just logical. YOU'RE showing YOUR intemperance and arrogance. Choosing to use the scientific names has nothing to do with the evaluation of an entire culture, and to think so is absurd. As for cultural arrogance, assuming the entire world is interested or willing or has the time to learn all these names of all the varieties of one species in one small area of the world (and all the local names of all the varieties of all the other species in all the other parts of the world, to be fair) is cultural arrogance as is believing it takes precedence over a scientifically based method. There are thousands and thousands of cultures in the world. No one has the time to learn all about each and every one, and failing to do so is not arrogance. A system which allows all to cross-communicate about the plants, using the scientific names is the only viable solution. It in no way casts aspersions on any of those cultures but allows all to share information more readily.



Hey, nobody is saying they are refusing to call it a Neofinetia falcata, but you are trying to force everyone to ignore the history behind the orchid. Your arrogant attitude IS shining through in your posts. Instead of critiquing other posters for their CORRECT choice of terminology, why don't you just stay out of the FUUKIRAN threads? If you have no desire to learn the history, move on. Ok? Thanks.


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## tenman (Jun 12, 2011)

Lanmark said:


> Actually, I pronounced Neofinetia as "Neo-fin-ee-shya" for a very long time, but some of my biggest heroes in the world of Neos pronounce it as "Neo-fin-et-ee-uh" and so now I have taken up the latter form pronunciation for myself as well.  Does anyone out there wish to give their opinion on the correct way to say it?
> 
> Getting back to the "F" word...imagine it sounding like this: "(f)Hoo-key-ron"
> Now practice, practice, practice! :viking:



We had a speaker who said the rule was that if a proper name was used, such as Finet, the correct way to pronounce it would be to pronounce the name as it would normally would be pronounced and then add the other parts onto it. Which would make it Neofeenaya (Finet, a french name, pronounced feenay). 

But...I think you will find there are all kinds of ways to pronounce that and other orchid names, especially given that no-one actually knows how ancient latin was precisely pronounced with 100% surety. Most orchid folks, fortunately, don't care how others pronounce the names as long as it's clear which plant is being spoken of. I'm sure some of my own pronunciations, as thought out as I think they are, grate on some people's ears - as do theirs. But there's very little to be gained by acting as the 'pronunciation police' unless asked.


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## Marc (Jun 13, 2011)

I really like the plant and I also apreciate your pictures!


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## John Boy (Jun 13, 2011)

cheers Marc


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## Marc (Jun 13, 2011)

John Boy said:


> cheers Marc



Your welcome! :rollhappy:


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## tenman (Jun 13, 2011)

Sirius said:


> Hey, nobody is saying they are refusing to call it a Neofinetia falcata, but you are trying to force everyone to ignore the history behind the orchid. Your arrogant attitude IS shining through in your posts. Instead of critiquing other posters for their CORRECT choice of terminology, why don't you just stay out of the FUUKIRAN threads? If you have no desire to learn the history, move on. Ok? Thanks.



No, I'm not trying to force anyone to anything. I made a simple suggestion, labeled as such, and received an insulting diatribe (several, in fact), to which I had the right to respond and did. The fact remains that there is only one universally accepted terminology (and it is universally accepted - ask even Japanese botanists and scientists - they're using it too). I didn't invent it, I'm not responsible for it. It allows communication across cultures, which obviously the cultural chauvinists who have responded here have no interest in doing. THAT is cultural arrogance.


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## John Boy (Jun 13, 2011)

Did it actually ever cross your mind that their concept is much more suited to the matter than „ours“? I for my part would much rather learn their concept and ideas, than to impose an inferior system upon people, who’s achievement it was in the very first place. We westerners seem to have a gene within us, that ignores other cultures properties, ideas and that seems to go down into the small print of their own terminology of things. 

Oh, and by the way: Keep ignoring me, my ideas or what I say. Since you don’t seem to be open for reason… it makes no difference anyhow.


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## Sirius (Jun 13, 2011)




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## Lanmark (Jun 13, 2011)

tenman said:


> No, I'm not trying to force anyone to anything. I made a simple suggestion, labeled as such, and received an insulting diatribe (several, in fact), to which I had the right to respond and did. The fact remains that there is only one universally accepted terminology (and it is universally accepted - ask even Japanese botanists and scientists - they're using it too). I didn't invent it, I'm not responsible for it. It allows communication across cultures, which obviously the cultural chauvinists who have responded here have no interest in doing. THAT is cultural arrogance.



I see. So I am insulting. Thanks. Thanks for your input about the pronunciation of the word Neofinetia as well. It was helpful. I have to say I think Huiray and Sirius are both right on the mark about your arrogance, and let me add inflexible as well. I do understand what you are saying about the scientific name for the plant. I understand where you are coming from. I also realize that, in the context of this informal forum which is meant to be a place to exchange ideas, information and maybe even bragging rights over a really nice plant from time to time, "poor form" was an unfair and unduly harsh criticism. Wendelin was nice enough to provide you the genus and species when you asked about it, and I provided what I thought was a lot of interesting and valuable information.

It takes all types to make the world go 'round including types like you, me, huiray and everyone else. I haven't lost all respect for you, but I can't say I'll be jumping right in to comment on anything you post from this date forward without pausing for a moment to be sure I really want to go there. Once burned, twice shy. I guess I'm not feeling that sociable anymore anyway, so it really doesn't matter to me any more than my opinion or knowledge matters to you.

We live and learn. :wink:


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## tenman (Jun 13, 2011)

Lanmark said:


> I see. So I am insulting.



Who said it was you? Not me. Not about you at all.

Is anyone here actually capable of reading??? 

This will be my last post on this thread since the neo fans apparently can't read and insist on inferring motivations and opinions to me I don't have. I have only been continuing to respond in reply to insults and misreadings of my posts. When you become rational it will make sense to you. Until then, there's really no point in posting further. But you should be careful to refrain from insulting people and making personal attacks in reply to simple suggestions like mine, "*Thanks*. *Perhaps* it would be clearer if you led with the scientific name like other posters rather than a horticultural epithet. Just a *suggestion*."

Unduly harsh? In what world is that even mildly 'harsh'? 

Done. Trust me, _now_ I will _never_ want to know anything about Neos now or ever if all the neo fans are as insulting and rude (and incapable of reading) as those who have insulted me here. Great proselytizing, guys! You really make someone want to be like you (NOT!). I'll definitely warn everyone else away, too.


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## Sirius (Jun 13, 2011)

tenman said:


> Who said it was you? Not me. Not about you at all.
> 
> Is anyone here actually capable of reading???
> 
> ...



I hope you find someplace that is more accepting of your "suggestions". In the future, maybe you will let others teach you, instead of trying to teach them when you obviously don't understand the subject matter.


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## Sirius (Jun 13, 2011)

For future reference...

If an orchid has a common name, it is entirely proper and in good form if that is the name you choose to use on this forum. We are not snobs, and you are not required to learn or use the latin names of any orchid. 

Dendrophylax lindenii is also the ghost orchid.
Angraecum sesquipedale is also Darwin's orchid.
Neofinetia falcata is also fuukiran.

If you don't agree, stay out of those threads where common names are used. Even the most polite attempts to make people use the latin name can make it appear that you are trying to create problems.


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## Heather (Jun 13, 2011)

I would counter it is useful to know both, as well as the historic. Not everyone keeps up with the names. Until recently I'd have know nothing about Dendrophylax lindenii, but would have been all over Polyrrhiza lindenii.

A name is a name is a name. The history behind it, is also valuable!


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## Lanmark (Jun 13, 2011)

Normally I don't get rude, but sheesh, that individual just went way overboard in a heartbeat right from the start and failed to even recognize the stank of his own doodoo. I saw his attitude spiking at the very beginning of it all, but I truly believed for a while that somewhere deep down inside that Gollum there was a real person hiding out. Then he degenerated from being rude to just downright nasty, and it was then that I lost my patience and my will to be kind any longer. I can now say without a shadow of a doubt that I _have_ lost all respect for him, and I wouldn't give him a Neo, a kind word nor the time of day if his very life depended on it. Some people should just grow cabbages in the wilderness rather than insult the beauty of orchids held captive in their beastly presence.

Now I have had my final say in this matter as well. Tit for tat. Call me elevenman. I doubt you'll ever see me behave this way again, but sometimes a situation simply calls for letting it all fly and hit the fan with no regrets. This was one of those situations. It was a good splat. Chastise me and/or suspend me from the forum if you must. Seeming gallons of vincristine regularly pouring into my veins these days makes me not really give a flying banana about much of anything anymore. I can only hope that better days lie ahead, and if not, I know whom I'll be haunting with a vengeance. :evil:

I will offer my apologies to you, John Boy, for spoiling your thread, and sullying the joyous occasion of the first bloom on your very first Fuukiran. This time of year is the most special for me, because it is most definitely the season of the Fuuran! I hope you will have many more wonderful seasons of Fuuran in years to come.

I wish you peace...

...you too, tenman, even though at this very moment you decidedly don't deserve it. oke:


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## SlipperFan (Jun 13, 2011)

I hesitate to jump in, but I thought it was out of character -- I don't remember Tenman having posts like that before. Maybe he was having a bad day, and just got in a hole he couldn't climb out of, instead, digging in deeper and deeper.

Let's all please stay calm, and remember that we are all human...


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## Lanmark (Jun 14, 2011)

SlipperFan said:


> I hesitate to jump in, but I thought it was out of character -- I don't remember Tenman having posts like that before. Maybe he was having a bad day, and just got in a hole he couldn't climb out of, instead, digging in deeper and deeper.
> 
> Let's all please stay calm, and remember that we are all human...


Calm as a cucumber  I'm quite certain tenman has some great qualities. He just needs to let them shine again. Lord knows I'm far from perfect, and I do mean faaaaarrrrr. Lately I've not been feeling too fond about taking a lot of "Sn"s from anyone: snit, snot, snide, snark, sneer, snub. Deny it all he may, some of that early snarl was directed at me, and being the weak human that I am, I decided to dish it back this time around. Maybe he'll learn from this exchange. Maybe not. I learned just what a monkey I can be, hurling my scat in another living creature's direction...things that make me go, "Hmmmm..." 

Life's a wild ride, that's for certain.

I can admit some level of culpability in the matter. I can also forgive, and I can even really and truly forget, but for once in my life, I'm not going to apologize first. I'm not going to bow, bend or break until an apology comes floating my way first. It might look like a turd in the water, but as long as it's a real apology, I might actually pick it up and float it back in the other direction.  Until then, I am going to remember two very accurate words: arrogant and inflexible. They apply. Lordy, do they ever apply! The truth is the truth, hurt though it may.

Stubborn and stupid are the two words which are probably the most appropriate descriptions of myself on this most auspicious of evenings.

Dickens' Tiny Tim said it best, "God bless us, every one!"


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## NYEric (Jun 14, 2011)

NYEric said:


> I remember my first, she was a wild women taking advantage of a college freshman! :evil:


Fukiran, get it!?oke: This thread shows why we should all take matters with a light heart. Life is too short to be too serious.


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## myxodex (Jun 14, 2011)

It seems this thread has got a bit warmed up. If I'm going to be honest there is a part of me that wanted to wade in on this debate
... and just because a particular word was used in a way that for me is as a red flag is to a bull. I'll explain this below, but first I would hazard a guess that Tenman didn't intend to be culturally insensitive and by way of mixing things up a bit, and to add another perspective, I'd like to relate an anecdote of my own failure of cultural awareness that resulted from my own little obsession with furan or neos as I've been calling them (lazy typist !).

By way of providing some context to this little story, and I'm sure that other neo fans can relate to this, is just how I came to develop such a passion for these little plants. A large part is down to the oriental sense of aesthetics which struck a chord with me. It's not all just about the classification of the cultivars and the Meikan, but about how they are grown, presented and appreciated as well. I'm unaware of any equivalent tradition that has arisen amongst western orchidists. I've even been doing an evening pottery class and having great fun learning to work with clay, not to mention making new friends! ... and all because of a fascination with a tradition from another culture ... I simply decided that I wanted to make my own neo pots. Anyway, I stumbled across a new vendor based in London who sells plants within the EU via ebay (http://greenypottery.blogspot.com/) and for those on this side of the pond I can recommend them. Now most of my learning about neos has come from this forum and the contributions from Lanmark, KyushuCalanthe et.al., and of course Glen and the NWO website. This means I've learned the Japanese cultivar names. The Greeny Pottery ebay site sells them by their Korean names. In communication with this vendor (who is Korean) I asked whether it was possible to put the Japanese names on their site as well. The reply was something along the lines of ... Why don't you just learn and use the Korean names? Oops! OK so I trod in it a bit.
I've learned to use the kanji that they give on this site to look up the Japanese names in the three fukiran books I have, and for most of their plants this is a solution, but for some I simply don't have the information. What I should do post a list of the ones that I have worked out in the resource section ... just need to figure out how to post kanji ? For example Jucheonwang = Shutennou. 

Anyhow, I've learned something from this thread ... which is why google translate gives "hukiran" for some of the japanese vendor websites. Some of the translations of descriptions of plants are amusing also. One striped variety had a rather dull main growth which had produced two boldly striped younger growths that looked great. The translated description was "parent better take care as children feeling fancy" ... partly lost in translation I guess.

As for the "red flag" word, it's "scientific". I've spent my life working as a scientist, trained as a microbiologist ,I migrated into medical research, mostly cancer research simply because that is where the money is, and it is a complex and interesting disease. What irks me is when the word "scientific" is used in a dispute as though it's a strike with a baseball bat with "THE TRUTH" written on it in big letters. In one place I worked the director of the division would review all manuscripts prior to being submitted for publication. He had a rubber stamp with the letters "BOLLOCKS" which he'd stamp with red ink over any paragraph he didn't like !

Cheers,
Tim


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## Lanmark (Jun 14, 2011)

The entire tradition of Fuukiran culture -- the aesthetics of every tiny detail including the intricate designs on the pots, the different ways in which the mounds of moss can be wrapped, and each plant's symmetry or asymmetry, form, shape and variegation -- is truly remarkable and something to be honored! What a wonderful world we live in! 

Most all plants have common horticultural names and quite often they have more than one. This naturally can be quite confusing. Some plants, however, have had the same common epithet for literally centuries. Such is the case for Fuukiran.

Binomial nomenclature is here to stay. We'd get lost without it, but we'd have never gotten where we are today without the old traditions which started the proverbial ball rolling in the first place. Condescension toward learning about such time-honored traditions in a context such as this is disheartening to say the least. The outright dismissive attitude displayed toward the information I had shared is probably what ticked me off more than anything else. Someone acted like a donkeyhole, and I showed my donkey in return. How truly adult of me, eh? 

I need a vacation. I think I'll take a break from humanity for a while. I'm logging out and turning off my computer for a week or two. Ciao for now. Ya'll are a fantastic bunch of peeps! :smitten:

Like Arnold, I'll be back.


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## Wendelin (Jun 14, 2011)

myxodex said:


> I've even been doing an evening pottery class and having great fun learning to work with clay, not to mention making new friends! ... and all because of a fascination with a tradition from another culture ... I simply decided that I wanted to make my own neo pots.
> Cheers,
> Tim


I love reading this because that's what I was planning. We have a pottery around here where I have already sent my children and my mother to attend a class . Only myself I didn't go, so far.
I guess now it's time since there is no vendor of Neo pots here in germany as far as I know.

I'm sure it's gonna be great fun to create and use my own pottery.:clap:


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## Marc (Jun 14, 2011)

I've had it!!!!!!

Next time I visit an orchid nursery a Fukiran is coming back with me!


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## KyushuCalanthe (Jun 14, 2011)

myxodex said:


> What I should do post a list of the ones that I have worked out in the resource section ... just need to figure out how to post kanji ?



Hey Tim, I think you'll have to post kanji as a jpeg and paste a link into the html since most folks aren't running software to display Japanese script.

I got into these plants 'cause I live in Japan, otherwise I never would have bothered. Now I'm hopelessly deep in...


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## NYEric (Jun 14, 2011)

I used to have no luck with plants having overlapping ond equitant leaf structures. Now that i seem to be able to grow them, and because I'm now into fragrant orchids, I will get a few more Neo's. I'm not into the cultural aesthetic, I just want a green and pink/red flowering types.


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