# A question about runts



## Carkin (Feb 5, 2016)

Do runts ever reach a point where they take off and start growing really well? Or do they always remain slower and weaker?


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## Justin (Feb 5, 2016)

Sometimes they will grow. For me they either die or just grow much more slowly. I give them a year out of flask then cull.the true 1% runts.


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## Carkin (Feb 5, 2016)

So they always stay slow then?
I bought a Phrag. in 2011 and it was the last one so I didn't have any others for comparison. Turns out it probably was a runt. Originally it was potted in 2009! It's soooo slow growing, but I love it and will keep babying it. Just wondering if it will ever pick up the pace, lol!


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## Carkin (Feb 5, 2016)

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## NYEric (Feb 5, 2016)

Why are you growing it so dry!? 
And, where did you get that cross?


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## Carkin (Feb 5, 2016)

Leaf span 8 inches.


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## Carkin (Feb 5, 2016)

Lol, I water it everyday! Got it from Cloud's.


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## Carkin (Feb 5, 2016)

It's a cross that phrag guy (Russell) made. I don't think there are many around so it's pretty special to me. I just wish it would bloom, lol!!


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## NYEric (Feb 5, 2016)

Try water in the bottom saucer. Hmmm I missed that, I will see if cloud's has more and others that are not listed, thanks.


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## Carkin (Feb 5, 2016)

I'll try that, thanks Eric.
I pretty sure they don't have any more. I bought it in 2011 and it was the last one. They have barely had any Phrags for a while now. 


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## Kostas (Feb 5, 2016)

I agree, try permanent water in the saucer and consistently moist/wet medium for better growth. Of course some are always bound to be slower and others to be faster, without that necessarily making them runts if they have another nice attribute, but good culture will show its potential


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## Carkin (Feb 5, 2016)

And it was teeny weeny when I got it!


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## Carkin (Feb 5, 2016)

Thank you Kostas!


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## NYEric (Feb 5, 2016)

Carkin said:


> I pretty sure they don't have any more. I bought it in 2011 and it was the last one. They have barely had any Phrags for a while now.



Oh, in that case you should send it to me. I'll grow it up for you!


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## papheteer (Feb 5, 2016)

I have a lot of those from clouds. usually it's the crosses that they have only one or two plant of. I bought a whole bunch of them a while back and they haven't done much since. Some of them have tags that says they've been potted since 2008!!! Now I just buy when I see there's a bunch of them.


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## troy (Feb 5, 2016)

I'm getting ready to throw away all my runts today


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## NYEric (Feb 5, 2016)

Yeah? What have you got?


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## Carkin (Feb 5, 2016)

papheteer said:


> I have a lot of those from clouds. usually it's the crosses that they have only one or two plant of. I bought a whole bunch of them a while back and they haven't done much since. Some of them have tags that says they've been potted since 2008!!! Now I just buy when I see there's a bunch of them.




Do you have any of this cross?


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## Clark (Feb 6, 2016)

Throw it away.
You'll be a better buyer in the future.


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## Carkin (Feb 6, 2016)

Clark said:


> Throw it away.
> You'll be a better buyer in the future.




Oh, I am a way better buyer now!! Like I said I bought that five years ago.

I'm not going to throw this one away. I would give Eric a go at growing it before I did that!! It's not taking up much space and I haven't seen this cross around anywhere else to buy. So I'll keep growing it...albeit very slowly!


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## gonewild (Feb 6, 2016)

See how long you can manage to grow it and keep it from blooming.


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## Carkin (Feb 6, 2016)

gonewild said:


> See how long you can manage to grow it and keep it from blooming.




Bahahaha...that is too funny!!! Then at least I'll feel Ike I'm accomplishing something! 


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## troy (Feb 6, 2016)

Carkin, get flasks!!! You will see the growth patterns, very self educating


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## gonewild (Feb 6, 2016)

Carkin said:


> Bahahaha...that is too funny!!! Then at least I'll feel Ike I'm accomplishing something!



Or it will bloom next month!


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## Carkin (Feb 6, 2016)

gonewild said:


> Or it will bloom next month!




That's a great plan! 


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## Carkin (Feb 6, 2016)

troy said:


> Carkin, get flasks!!! You will see the growth patterns, very self educating




I'd like to do that one day. My dream would be to get a flask of PK's!!! 


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## Happypaphy7 (Feb 6, 2016)

It looks very clean and healthy, at the least. 
And from teeny weeny to 8 inch wide is not that bad although it has taken 5 years. 
As long as it grows, keep it since you only have one.

Keep us posted. I'm curious if this would eventually flower, perhaps on a smaller than expected plant size.


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## emydura (Feb 6, 2016)

papheteer said:


> I have a lot of those from clouds. usually it's the crosses that they have only one or two plant of. I bought a whole bunch of them a while back and they haven't done much since. Some of them have tags that says they've been potted since 2008!!! Now I just buy when I see there's a bunch of them.



Good advice. It is best to get plants from nurseries not long after they have been released otherwise you end up with the slow growing runts. About 4 months ago I bought a whole heap of two year old roth seedlings. I believe I was the first person to order any so hopefully that means I got some of the more vigorous clones. I have never had roth seedlings grow so fast. Many of them have significantly increased in size already. I have a seven year old seedling of Canadian Club x Jim Krull which is obviously a runt. My new roth seedlings have flown right past it. That plant will never flower.

I bought some multi hybrids recently. Despite the plants being quite small many of them had really old labels. A couple were repotted in 2005. These are clearly runts that have no prospect of flowering. Personally I think it is immoral for a nursery to sell plants they have been struggling with for a long time. How do they expect their customers to grow them if they can't.


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## gonewild (Feb 6, 2016)

Carkin has the plant always just been this one single growth?
Or does it make a new growth and then loose the old one?


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## Carkin (Feb 6, 2016)

Happypaphy7 said:


> It looks very clean and healthy, at the least.
> And from teeny weeny to 8 inch wide is not that bad although it has taken 5 years.
> As long as it grows, keep it since you only have one.
> 
> Keep us posted. I'm curious if this would eventually flower, perhaps on a smaller than expected plant size.




Thank you for the words. I will keep you posted for sure!!


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## Carkin (Feb 6, 2016)

emydura said:


> Good advice. It is best to get plants from nurseries not long after they have been released otherwise you end up with the slow growing runts. About 4 months ago I bought a whole heap of two year old roth seedlings. I believe I was the first person to order any so hopefully that means I got some of the more vigorous clones. I have never had roth seedlings grow so fast. Many of them have significantly increased in size already. I have a seven year old seedling of Canadian Club x Jim Krull which is obviously a runt. My new roth seedlings have flown right past it. That plant will never flower.
> 
> 
> 
> I bought some multi hybrids recently. Despite the plants being quite small many of them had really old labels. A couple were repotted in 2005. These are clearly runts that have no prospect of flowering. Personally I think it is immoral for a nursery to sell plants they have been struggling with for a long time. How do they expect their customers to grow them if they can't.




Yes, I have learned my lesson!! Glad to hear you have such a vigorous bunch of Roth seedlings, that must be so satisfying!


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## Carkin (Feb 6, 2016)

gonewild said:


> Carkin has the plant always just been this one single growth?
> 
> Or does it make a new growth and then loose the old one?




Still the same original growth!!


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## gonewild (Feb 6, 2016)

Carkin said:


> Still the same original growth!!



That's amazing, those are some old leaves!
The plant looks like a well grown 8 month seedling.
I'd sure keep it.

If at some point it just does not want to flower you could try applying some flower inducing hormones just to see what happens.


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## Carkin (Feb 6, 2016)

Thank you! It has lost its baby leaves over the years and the new leaves are getting progressively longer and wider. I know that kinda hard to believe given how small it still looks, lol! It's just crazy slow for a Phrag.
But to be fair, I knew nothing about growing it when I bought it so I no doubt set it back from the start.


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## Carkin (Feb 6, 2016)

I'm a romantic, and I love that Russell named it after his wife, Tracy Nelson. So I'm reeeally wanting it to do well.


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## Happypaphy7 (Feb 6, 2016)

Well, I say as long as you have a will and space for them, AND the plants are healthy and growing, keep them.

For some of us heavy loaders, space is real precious and only the toughest stay. hahaha

Good luck to you and your plant!


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## Happypaphy7 (Feb 6, 2016)

emydura said:


> I bought some multi hybrids recently. Despite the plants being quite small many of them had really old labels. A couple were repotted in 2005. These are clearly runts that have no prospect of flowering. Personally I think it is immoral for a nursery to sell plants they have been struggling with for a long time. How do they expect their customers to grow them if they can't.



Agree.
Unless the whole population of a certain deflaskings were very slow and small, it would be nicer if such "runts" among the crops were clearly noted and sold for lower price to be fair.
So buys are aware what they are putting themselves through. lol
Some people will still buy them anyway, so in the end, everyone wins.


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## Carkin (Feb 6, 2016)

Happypaphy7 said:


> Well, I say as long as you have a will and space for them, AND the plants are healthy and growing, keep them.
> 
> For some of us heavy loaders, space is real precious and only the toughest stay. hahaha
> 
> Good luck to you and your plant!




True, true, but this one is so little I can pretty much squeeze it in anywhere, lol!
I have a HUGE Sergeant Eric that I begrudge the space it takes up but it blooms so often that I have to keep it!!


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## Carkin (Feb 6, 2016)

Happypaphy7 said:


> Agree.
> Unless the whole population of a certain deflaskings were very slow and small, it would be nicer if such "runts" among the crops were clearly noted and sold for lower price to be fair.
> So buys are aware what they are putting themselves through. lol
> Some people will still buy them anyway, so in the end, everyone wins.




Yes, runts should be sold as just that! Then you can decide if you want to spend your time babying it, and not pay top dollar. This one was $40.


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## cnycharles (Feb 6, 2016)

Carkin said:


> But to be fair, I knew nothing about growing it when I bought it so I no doubt set it back from the start




I have seen lots of plants that got checked hard because of cultural issues and the plant can just shut off growth for a long time


Elmer Nj


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## Happypaphy7 (Feb 6, 2016)

Carkin said:


> True, true, but this one is so little I can pretty much squeeze it in anywhere, lol!
> I have a HUGE Sergeant Eric that I begrudge the space it takes up but it blooms so often that I have to keep it!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I hate it when a plant spikes when I was thinking of throwing it away. lol
They know how to survive! hahaha


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## Happypaphy7 (Feb 6, 2016)

Carkin said:


> Yes, runts should be sold as just that! Then you can decide if you want to spend your time babying it, and not pay top dollar. This one was $40.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Yes, and there are plenty of people who love this kind of challenge. 
Not me. 

Life is too short to try all these different paphs out there! (and other plants and living things) :wink:


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## Carkin (Feb 6, 2016)

cnycharles said:


> I have seen lots of plants that got checked hard because of cultural issues and the plant can just shut off growth for a long time
> 
> 
> Elmer Nj




That's good to know, I'm sure it did suffer a little when I first got it. But it was already at least two years old at that time and teeny tiny, so it does seem like a slow grower from the get go.


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## Carkin (Feb 6, 2016)

Happypaphy7 said:


> I hate it when a plant spikes when I was thinking of throwing it away. lol
> 
> They know how to survive! hahaha




Lol, that pretty much describes all my Phals!! 


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## Clark (Feb 7, 2016)

Looking back, I can honestly say I kicked some plants to the curb, because I couldn't deal with the drama.
I smiled ear to ear when I got rid of Allison Strohm. All 12 growths or so...

Just do it. And rejoice!


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