# Criteria to Buy, Collect and Judge Phrags



## Kawarthapine (Feb 27, 2015)

I've got about 150 plants, of which around half are paphs and phrags.

I have not submitted plants for judging but I have clerked a few shows.

I am still a bit mystified/confused about what makes one phrag a winner vis-a-vis another that does not even get culled for judging.

Can anyone provide a short list or top ten criteria for judging phrags?

I would like to use this info to more objectively evaluate plants before buying them, and to decide if the price matches award history. While awarded parents helps gauge potential of a sib or hybrid, I realize it is not necessarily a guarantee... 

My interest includes the whole plant, flower, foilage, roots...

Care to comment and help build a buyers/collectors toolkit?

Thanks!


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## NYEric (Feb 27, 2015)

Look on the AOS website. The problem is a lot of judges don't know what to expect from a specific cross so they are judging by an unrelated ideal. For example: Phrag La Hougette (dalessandroi x Beauport) always has a wave or curl along the top of the lateral petals. I've seen beautifully bloomed examples of this cross passed at judging because they wanted round petals.


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## orcoholic (Feb 27, 2015)

You should probably just buy what you like the most. I don't understand why a lot of collectors are more concerned with getting an awardable plant rather than one they like. 

However, to answer your question, IMO, when it comes to Phrags, judges look at size first (as compared to others of the same cross or species), color next, roundness of flower (if besseae shaped) or length of petals (if long petaled), and if the cross displays the best features of the parents (although this is minor when compared to the other factors.)

Buy what you like. If it's awardable, great.


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## Kawarthapine (Feb 27, 2015)

NyEric.

You hit the nail on the proverbial head. 
This is exactly the source of my confusion.
I guess AOS judges have had a lot more time to acclimate to paphs while much of the phrag breeding has taking place since discovery of besseae, Kovachii, and their numerous hybrids and sibs.

Orcholic:

I also like your point re buying that what pleases you... 
At the same time, my A type personality wants to justify the often higher than average purchases I want to make.
Lastly, a tip sheet will help me from making too many impulsive purchases.


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## ehanes7612 (Feb 27, 2015)

Judging is about balance and beauty, a skill that develops from years of experience. If the floral display sparks their intuitive sense of what is worthy of an award, the explanation of its form, shape, size and color come afterwards. My advice would be to look at as many awarded plants as possible to develop this intuition..doesn't matter the plant..elements of floral composition are the same for all plants..in fact, they are pretty much the same for anything you see with your eyes.


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## NYEric (Feb 28, 2015)

That's a good point about the length of time and experience versus another genus or family of orchids, after all besseae has only been in cultivation since 1981, kovachii since 2002, etc.. In fact I saw a judge almost not judge a 2nd generation Pk hybrid because he didn't think that it could be legal.


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## paphioland (Feb 28, 2015)

Kawarthapine said:


> I've got about 150 plants, of which around half are paphs and phrags.
> 
> I have not submitted plants for judging but I have clerked a few shows.
> 
> ...



If you are passionate about your hobby and think you have a good eye judge the plants yourself. See as much of the type of orchid you are interested as you can. Why trust a judge? Believe me if you become an expert or master you will be sorely disappointed in judges. You will realize that very few of them are experts, especially in your area of interest. Do you trust the instructor at university who teaches a business course but may have never owned a business or had little actual experience? Wouldn't you rather be the person who has had experience running and owning multiple businesses in a specific industry? Judging is usefull to those who don't know and need someone else to tell you. Or to someone that needs to sell something so it can be verified. Like size is permanently recorded. It also helps them sell and breed if they don't have a strong reputation. If a breeder or seller has a great reputation they really don't need to get things judged. So maybe to a beginner judging can be useful but become an "expert" yourself that is part of the fun. See lots of phrags. All different kinds. Look at pictures. Go to many nurseries. Breed some crosses. Think about what you would like to achieve. You will be way ahead of most AOS judges especially in your area of interest.


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## Ozpaph (Mar 1, 2015)

The AOS, like all societies, has a judging handbook to guide flower standards.
AOS - https://www.aos.org/Default.aspx?id=37
He is an Australian judges manual - http://www.orchidsocietynsw.com.au/Documents/JudgesmanualStateDec13.pdf

See as much as you can and learn by asking questions. Then but what you like!


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## tnyr5 (Mar 1, 2015)

You can also look at the various AOS judging centers' websites. Many of them post photos and flower dimensions of recent awards to which you can compare your plant. A useful resource if you don't have the money to buy orchidsplus or orchidwiz. With 150 plants, chances are you have at least one award winner in there somewhere.


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