# This is what people are being taught?



## Ray (Apr 7, 2022)

*How to Guarantee Beautiful Paphiopedilum Blooms Every Time*


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## kiwi (Apr 7, 2022)

Wow!!!!


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## Linus_Cello (Apr 7, 2022)

Has anyone heard of the author: Mary Ann Berdak?


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## KyushuCalanthe (Apr 8, 2022)

She’s correct. I grow my cool Paphiopedilums outside in leaf mould compose, up in a birch tree. Works like a charm. Indeed they are “tough” plants and therefore a perfect choice for beginners.


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## JayeL (Apr 8, 2022)

"_...They are one of the easiest orchids to grow, especially for beginners_."

When I think of how many I have sent to the great compost heap in the sky, maybe I'm still on the level below beginner status...  

JL


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## Tony (Apr 8, 2022)

Straight out of one of the many 1960s orchid books I read as a kid


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## jht.orchids (Apr 8, 2022)

Oh dear.


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## KyushuCalanthe (Apr 9, 2022)

I couldn't resist to show you my P. malipoense colony. In full flower now. I just water them once in a while.


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## Kalyke (Apr 10, 2022)

Miss Orchid girl ranks them easier than Phalenopsis. Meh. All orchids are hard as far as I am concerned.


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 12, 2022)

KyushuCalanthe said:


> I couldn't resist to show you my P. malipoense colony. In full flower now. I just water them once in a while.


Wow!!


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## SlipperKing (Apr 20, 2022)

KyushuCalanthe said:


> I couldn't resist to show you my P. malipoense colony. In full flower now. I just water them once in a while.


NO WAY! You can't leave me hanging with that tiny pic and short comment!
We need details! How did you attach the plants to the trees? With your photo editor?


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## Ray (Apr 20, 2022)

Nice Photoshopping!


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## KyushuCalanthe (Apr 20, 2022)

Rick, that's the point, they just grow naturally in birch trees with little effort on my part. I get new seedlings every year.


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## The Mutant (Apr 24, 2022)

I don't know what I just read...


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## Tintin (Apr 27, 2022)

Ray said:


> *How to Guarantee Beautiful Paphiopedilum Blooms Every Time*


Could you clarify what points do you have issues with?


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## Ray (Apr 28, 2022)

Tintin said:


> Could you clarify what points do you have issues with?


First is the general ignorance of orchid-growing in general. “Warm paphiopedilums are […] typically harder to grow than their cool counterparts.” For some yes, certainly not all, or is that “typically” the case. It’s all about how the plants’ needs match what you can easily provide.

Light: dark green means they’re getting too much and yellowish means too much. “The perfect color would be yellow-green”. Seems to me the opposite is true- less light means the plants will try to compensate through the produced additional chlorophyll, making the plants darker green. I never want to see any yellow in my plants, except the flowers.

“A fluorescent bulb 6 to 12 inches above the leaves will ensure them growing healthily.” Is that a 12 watt shop light or a 40 watt T5?

After telling us that there are warm and cool flowers, the author then gives a single range of temperature constraints.

“Overwatering can kill orchids”. Nope. Insufficient air to the roots does it.

There’s probably more things I could disagree with, but I don’t want to contaminate my mind with more hogwash.


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## Tintin (Apr 28, 2022)

Ray said:


> First is the general ignorance of orchid-growing in general. “Warm paphiopedilums are […] typically harder to grow than their cool counterparts.” For some yes, certainly not all, or is that “typically” the case. It’s all about how the plants’ needs match what you can easily provide.
> 
> Light: dark green means they’re getting too much and yellowish means too much. “The perfect color would be yellow-green”. Seems to me the opposite is true- less light means the plants will try to compensate through the produced additional chlorophyll, making the plants darker green. I never want to see any yellow in my plants, except the flowers.
> 
> ...


To be fair, it is impossible to provide accurate culture information for ALL varieties of paph in one short article. I think she just meant to give a list of generalized guidelines relevant to paphi. I wouldn't get bothered by it. Not like she is selling it as an orchid textbook.


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## Tom Reddick (May 5, 2022)

The fact it is impossible is why she shouldn't try to do it. And in some cases in this article the advice is just downright wrong.

My frustration with it is that as a society member and sometimes vendor at orchid shows I meet a lot of people who lose plants, and confidence, by following the advice of these unresearched fluff pieces.

Worse still are the ones who seem to have a need to impress everyone by spreading bad growing advice without knowing or even caring that they do harm. I still remember a show several years ago where a lady overheard me giving watering instructions to a new grower and chimed in very insistently about the ice cube method.

A lot of first time growers get their plants as gifts at holidays, or when a child is born, or after a hospital stay. Many more give them a try since the mystique is still there even though you can buy orchids at grocery stores now. They have an emotional investment in their plants- and I have no patience with those who want to make money or achieve recognition based on giving advice they are too lazy or stupid to properly research for themselves before giving it.

Just my opinion- I see your side of it too and realize that people need to do their homework- so no attack on you intended, but it really gets to me when people try to monetize an expertise they don't have.


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## Tintin (May 6, 2022)

I see why it is frustrating also. I don't get too worked up about differences of opinions on "right way of growing" because I find that experimenting and learning (together with your plants) make it joyful in orchid growing. I also never believe another's "advice" as the "golden truth", knowing the culture condition of theirs could be dramatically different from mine. With so many problems with deadly consequences in the world I think orchid growing should bring joy and gratitude, not frustration.


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## Sky7Bear (May 7, 2022)

My friend Ray said," “Overwatering can kill orchids”. Nope. Insufficient air to the roots does it. "

Darn right, Ray. I think understanding principles is much more important than having "rules," which presumably are based on the principles but may not be understood. And what I'm learning from semi-hydroponics confirms what Ray said, but I take it further. I'd say the principle is that every plant (often based on genus or species, but of course these are "mixed up" by hybridization) has an ideal air/water ratio (which includes the environment it is in, particularly humidity, which is of course a ratio of air and water). These vary quite a bit, particularly by genus. So on one extreme, one has say, Tolumnia, and on the other perhaps Phragmipedium. 

So, when I see that a plant is "too wet," it might be just as accurate (perhaps more so) to say "it doesn't have enough air to balance that amount of water for those particular roots." In addition to temperature, humidity, light, etc., one must also consider both medium and container. So, for example, I have a society friend who also grows S/H who can use a denser (wetter) medium in her house than I can in my greenhouse (40% to 90% humidity difference or thereabouts). When I receive a plant from Norman's Orchids, it will be in moss in plastic. I will immediately put it into clay because the clay breathes and the plastic does not. And I can water it twice a week with my S/H, which I could not do in plastic. I have a photo somewhere of a Catt growing in a fairly fine S/H medium but in clay, and the roots are great. In plastic, they would be rotted. 

And beyond that, in S/H I have to consider the layering of the leca (medium). It tends to get very dry on top, so some genera (including both Paphs and Phrags) seem to benefit from moss on top of the medium. 

Yes, too much water in the ratio can kill roots, particularly if they are not ones newly grown and adapted for that amount of water, but one can say it's too little air for that amount of water. Actually, I'm amazed at how wet some vandas in moss can be if they are in a basket, and same for Phals in clay. One can also get more air to the bottom of pots either by using "orchid pots," leaving the bottom empty as Gold Country does, or even using an inverted plastic net pot down there.

On a related note, I'm also having some success using living (local) moss, which is abundant here in the NW, in a net pot rather than imported sphagnum.


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## masaccio (May 8, 2022)

I do remember, as Tony mentioned, mid-to mid-late 20th century orchids-for-beginner books, many of which could be quite handy. Paphs and phals were commonly touted as good beginner orchids. Even AOS culture sheets (if I remember correctly), along with a great number of other articles and vendors, used paphs and phals as the poster children for easy-grow orchids. Possibly because as a group they are not demanding of strong light and at that point, much of the "new wave" of orchid hobbyists were growing on windowsills and wanted houseplant ease from an orchid (and still do). I still enjoy a nostalgic visit to Jack Kramer's Growing Orchids At Your Windows, and other such "Orchids as Houseplants" publications. On the other hand, also pleasant and fun is the somewhat earlier, but still hobbyist-oriented Rebecca Northen exhaustive tome which assumed that simply EVERYONE who was interested in growing orchids naturally had a greenhouse! Finally, at that time, "Paphs" were practically synonymous with cheap and easily obtainable Maudiae crosses and such-like. We've come a long way. 
As to this silly thing, my pet peeve common among the legions of current-day hoi palloi hacks, it purports to impart cultural guidelines, but in so doing, refers the reader to a vast general body of knowledge rather than troubling with the very specifics the article itself should include. It's like those on-line recipes that wax poetic about a particular dish for a page and a half, and at the very bottom "Oh, by the way, this is how you do it", and generally completely off-base.


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## Russ1992 (Aug 4, 2022)

Tintin said:


> I see why it is frustrating also. I don't get too worked up about differences of opinions on "right way of growing" because I find that experimenting and learning (together with your plants) make it joyful in orchid growing. I also never believe another's "advice" as the "golden truth", knowing the culture condition of theirs could be dramatically different from mine. With so many problems with deadly consequences in the world I think orchid growing should bring joy and gratitude, not frustration.


Well said!


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## Russ1992 (Aug 4, 2022)

Sky7Bear said:


> My friend Ray said," “Overwatering can kill orchids”. Nope. Insufficient air to the roots does it. "
> 
> Darn right, Ray. I think understanding principles is much more important than having "rules," which presumably are based on the principles but may not be understood. And what I'm learning from semi-hydroponics confirms what Ray said, but I take it further. I'd say the principle is that every plant (often based on genus or species, but of course these are "mixed up" by hybridization) has an ideal air/water ratio (which includes the environment it is in, particularly humidity, which is of course a ratio of air and water). These vary quite a bit, particularly by genus. So on one extreme, one has say, Tolumnia, and on the other perhaps Phragmipedium.
> 
> ...


The truest explanation I can think of. Well said.


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## NYEric (Aug 4, 2022)

masaccio said:


> As to this silly thing, my pet peeve common among the legions of current-day hoi palloi hacks,


Hoi-palloi! OMG sounds like my Mom!!


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## cnycharles (Aug 6, 2022)

masaccio said:


> It's like those on-line recipes that wax poetic about a particular dish for a page and a half, and at the very bottom "Oh, by the way, this is how you do it", and generally completely off-base.


I hate those recipes, where they make it so you can’t just copy and paste the recipe instructions; instead they intersperse the ingredients and instructions between lots of verbiage and pictures (and the inevitable pop up ads…)


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## justagirlart (Aug 15, 2022)

Kalyke said:


> Miss Orchid girl ranks them easier than Phalenopsis. Meh. All orchids are hard as far as I am concerned.


I find the best thing for me is to leave then alone. Unles you are positive they are diseased. Even then.


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