# Saint Swithin Info



## gego (Mar 30, 2016)

Sorry no picture yet but probably this weekend. Just want to ask you guys about the minimum NS and DS of this flower that would have a chance of getting awarded/pulled out. It will have seven flowers, five are open in one spike for now. I'm hoping six will be open and a bud by then. This is an old cross so the bar is probably pretty high. I don't have access to a database so I'm just getting some ideas if it's worth taking this plant to a two hour road trip and a day's off. Some numbers will help.


----------



## trdyl (Mar 31, 2016)

Num. Flowers 7, Num. Buds 0, Num. Inflor 1 
Nat. Spr 21.31, NS Vert 21.29, DSW 4.94, DSL 6.58
Petal W 1.19, Petal L 18.69
Syn Sepal W 4.48, Syn Sepal L 6.11
Pouch W 2.09, Pouch L 5.33 

These are the averages for 14 Awards from 2011 to 2015 including 4 HCCs, 8 AMs and 2 FCCs. These measurements are in centimeters. Hope this helps.


----------



## gego (Mar 31, 2016)

trdyl said:


> Num. Flowers 7, Num. Buds 0, Num. Inflor 1
> Nat. Spr 21.31, NS Vert 21.29, DSW 4.94, DSL 6.58
> Petal W 1.19, Petal L 18.69
> Syn Sepal W 4.48, Syn Sepal L 6.11
> ...



Yes Ted thank you very much.

I'm assuming the units is CM, right? Two questions, to measure NS, do you just let the petals dangle then measure from one tip to the other tip of the petals? How about NS vertical? Is this vertical at 90 degrees or is this from one petal tip to the tip of the dorsal?

I checked last night, so far DS is 5.4 CM, Syn Sepal is wider at 5.5, Petal L is 20.3. Looks promising.

Dorsal is flat but it has the curl on the edges from the phil.

Seven flowers as average is amazing. The way the stem looks right now with seven, an additional one or two would be fantastic.


----------



## trdyl (Mar 31, 2016)

Your measurements do look promising.

Yes, measurements are in centimeters(cm).

Natural Spread is done across both petals at the widest point.

Natural Spread Vertical would be between the highest point of the dorsal sepal and lowest point of the petals.

If there is some curl on the DS, I would not be too concerned if everything else looks good.


----------



## gego (Mar 31, 2016)

Im excited. I will make more measurements tonight. It does look big to me but I m not very sure. 
Thanks again. 
I wish i can just take a snap and post here but my phone or service or what ever wont let me post. It says the file is too big. 

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


----------



## tnyr5 (Apr 1, 2016)

Seven is not the average. There are misprints in the record that make it seem that way when you average them. There are only two awards I could find with 7 on one stem. 5-6 is the expectation for a decent award. Your measurements look good, as long as the form, color, and substance are there.


----------



## gego (Apr 1, 2016)

Ted, NS is 30.5 tip to tip just dangling. The petals curved down a bit around 3/4 of the petal so if straigthen on both ends it may measure 1 to 2 more cm. I need another hand to do this. I think 30.5 cm is good enough.


----------



## gego (Apr 1, 2016)

tnyr5 said:


> Seven is not the average. There are misprints in the record that make it seem that way when you average them. There are only two awards I could find with 7 on one stem. 5-6 is the expectation for a decent award. Your measurements look good, as long as the form, color, and substance are there.



Thank you Tony. I will post a pic sometime this weekend to get some opinion.

I'm afraid to move the plant since the stem holding the seventh flower looks fragile and small yet. I really like this to open. Also the presentation right now is pretty good, two more flowers to open then I will move the whole plant.


----------



## gego (Apr 1, 2016)

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37151

That's the first bloom. Flower was smaller but the petals were held nicely. Petals are still held up now but the length makes it droop down a lil bit.

The color is darker too. The form of the dorsal has changed a lot and the sepal is so wide, even wider that the dorsal. First time I've seen.

Enough for now, sorry I'm just excited.


----------



## Ozpaph (Apr 1, 2016)

I would love to see it. email yourself the photo with lower resolution, then post. Or use postimage.org

Stake the spike.


----------



## Justin (Apr 1, 2016)

Just based on the first blooming pic i would say definitely take it in for judging.


----------



## trdyl (Apr 1, 2016)

tnyr5 said:


> Seven is not the average. There are misprints in the record that make it seem that way when you average them.



Yes. Tony you are correct. The average is between 4 and 5 in that group that I was looking at. So much for fully trusting Orchids Plus features...


----------



## trdyl (Apr 1, 2016)

gego said:


> Ted, NS is 30.5 tip to tip just dangling. The petals curved down a bit around 3/4 of the petal so if straigthen on both ends it may measure 1 to 2 more cm. I need another hand to do this. I think 30.5 cm is good enough.



30.5 sounds impressive.


----------



## gego (Apr 1, 2016)

Ozpaph said:


> I would love to see it. email yourself the photo with lower resolution, then post. Or use postimage.org
> 
> Stake the spike.



I will try that. Thanks.

Yes, I just replaced the stake to a bigger rod then extend it with a wooden round stick. It's getting top heavy now and the spike is long about 2.5 ft and growing.


----------



## cnycharles (Apr 1, 2016)

If you are using tapatalk you can post here and it will ask what size you want, so can make smaller 


Elmer Nj


----------



## gego (Apr 1, 2016)

How do you do this? I dont get being asked. Is there a setting to adjust?

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


----------



## emydura (Apr 1, 2016)

I don't think size is everything with this hybrid. Phillipinense is such a variable species that the St Swithins can be pretty variable as well. You see some St Swithin's in Australia that are highly awarded (AM and FCC) that aren't massive in size but they have really horizontal petals. Personally these are my favourite type of St Swithin's.


----------



## tnyr5 (Apr 1, 2016)

Ooohhhhh I remember that one. I dare say it was probably awardable on its first bloom.


----------



## gego (Apr 2, 2016)

Here they are, some quick shots.





5th flower, sixth and seventh on the right. Looks like the 5th is the biggest.





2nd and 3rd flower





First flower and plant


----------



## Justin (Apr 2, 2016)

Are there 7 flowers on one spike? That is a high quality clone...definitely awardable. What is the cross?


----------



## cnycharles (Apr 2, 2016)

gego said:


> How do you do this? I dont get being asked. Is there a setting to adjust?



Okay, I see that I'd paid 1.98 or 2.89 for the app, and that may unlock that feature. I'd forgotten that I'd bought the app and if you have the free version might be different (or might be different for different phone type


----------



## Ozpaph (Apr 2, 2016)

Its very good.


----------



## tnyr5 (Apr 2, 2016)

Honest assessment, based on what I think judges will say. (Not trying to be mean or anything).
Pros:
-FCC flower count
-FCC natural spread
-beautiful synsepal
-good color
-good petal stance (assuming that they will all eventually twist into the position of the bottom three flowers)

Cons:
- The petal width seems narrow to me, perhaps it is because the flowers are so big. This, in and of itself, will not keep you from getting an award (as long as the measurement is at least 1.1cm).
- If the top flowers do not twist into the same stance as the bottom ones, they'll say it's somewhat inconsistent. Again, not necessarily a major problem.
- The pinch in the dorsal sepal, however, is a major concern. It seems that they mature into it. I'm not sure if this flaw is scoreable or fatal, but you'll be penalized heavily for it. This flaw didn't show up in the first bloom, which makes me think it's unique to this inflorescence. It could be that the pinch will flatten into a ruffle in another week, but, if not, they may ask you to rebloom it and bring it back.

I would still take it in, just because it's worth hearing their critique, but, if they pass it and ask you to bring it back when it's older, remember that the standard for St Swithin is VERY high and they screen really nice ones over little problems all the time.


----------



## gego (Apr 2, 2016)

Thank you for taking the time. Very helpful. 
Now the pitch, dont know if i understand this term in the form of the dorsal. I know the ruffles at the edges and they are even accentuated here because of the size. They will all mature into this based on the first bloom. 
Pitch could be the angle of where the fliwer is facing vertically?if you dont mind, help me understamd, this is very interesting. And thanks for the honest opinion. 

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


----------



## gego (Apr 2, 2016)

It may take some time for the seventh to open. I would say in another two weeks maby more Notice the fifth has not fully developed yet but its going to be bigger that the rest

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


----------



## tnyr5 (Apr 2, 2016)

Pinch, not pitch lol.


----------



## gego (Apr 2, 2016)

Ohhhhh hahaha i need my glasses. 
Yes so the pinch , what is it? Hehehe
There's that middle line thats kind of concave a lil bit
Wheres thay pinch in the dorsal?

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


----------



## trdyl (Apr 2, 2016)

Beautiful!


----------



## cattmad (Apr 2, 2016)

To get seven flowers on a st swithin is very impressive. Should get an award, but probably not FCC


----------



## gego (Apr 2, 2016)

Thank you all. 

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


----------



## tnyr5 (Apr 3, 2016)

gego said:


> There's that middle line thats kind of concave a lil bit


That's what I meant by "pinch"


----------



## gego (Apr 3, 2016)

I agree. It was there on the first bloom but was very subtle. This trait could very well be from the the phil
The sepal is awesome though. I wonder if a big sepal like that would add extra score, its always the dorsal that gets the attention

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


----------



## Leo Schordje (Apr 5, 2016)

Damn that is a nice one. 

Judging, despite all the numbers tossed around is subjective. Bring it in, you never know what the judges will do. If the head of a team has gas, no award. If the same head of a team just had a great sweet roll for breakfast, maybe everything will get an award. I've seen it happen. 

Size is only 10 points. It may be the first ten points, but it is only 10 points. 

Presentation is important. Take the time to clean your leaves with a damp cloth. Remove any ugly spotted or browning leaves. Don't use a cobbled together stake, find one that is clean and long enough to do the job. Stake the flower stem so the dorsals of most of the flowers are as close to perfectly vertical as possible. Neatness counts. There are no points for these things, but the care will get a response from the judges in higher scores for the things they do measure. I know a grower, who was only concerned about the flower, showed a paph twice, on successive blooms and got no awards. Went to judging with a friend for the third try. Friend insisted on restaking and cleaning up the plant, he got an AM. Third blooming wasn't as good as they remember the second blooming was, so the difference was how the plant itself looked and the proper staking of the flower stem. No points for these details, but they do count. 

Good luck. I would guess this to get at least an HCC, possibly an AM. But the twists and position of petals are not quite uniform enough for an FCC. Visually the petals look a bit thin, which will keep it from getting the FCC. But that would be my guess. Hope for an AM. be happy if it gets even an HCC.


----------



## Ozpaph (Apr 6, 2016)

Great advice, Leo.


----------



## gego (Apr 6, 2016)

Thanks, Leo. I agree on the neatness. Some judges dont like many clips used. 
I cant take off work to bring this for judging but im just very happy with it as is I may bring this to a show and tell. Im looking forward to the next blooming as the next growth is even bigger than the one flowering. 
Thanks again, im glad you like it. 

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


----------

