# Help with my Phrag Frank Smith



## drbeeraz (Sep 21, 2020)

Hello, I purchased this Phrag Frank Smith which has been doing well but has developed these pale green streaks and I am afraid it is viral or possibly bacterial. I have ordered CymM/Odon Ring virus test kits and are awaiting their arrival. Anyone have thoughts on what this looks like to them and possible treatment? I drenched the orchid with Physan to attempt to treat a bacterial pathogen.


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## NYEric (Sep 22, 2020)

What's on the other side of the leaves


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## drbeeraz (Sep 22, 2020)

Here are some more photos, no insects that I can see....here


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## Ray (Sep 23, 2020)

Physan is a waste of time in this case. It is a topical disinfectant, not a systemic disease treatment.

While it does look to be more pathogen-based than cultural, try something simple like watering with Epsom Salts a time or two. 1/2-1 teaspoon/gallon ought to be enough that you’ll see a response in a few weeks.


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## PeteM (Sep 23, 2020)

I think you are on the right track with the virus test first. I think Rays suggestion on Mag deficiency is also good advice. 

My opinion.. If it passes the the virus test and it was my plant I would also think about repotting. How long have you had it in the moss? I find with the phrags that show brown spotting in the leaf tip like your last photo where the leaf is cut is an indicator.. when I see this in phrags on the newest growth.. I repot as soon as I can and clean the roots.. as it signals to me the media and root zone needs to be refreshed. Maybe your newest leaf is in good shape? The tips of the phrags leaves are like tiny sensitive blood vessels and are a good indicator of whats going on in the pot.

Good luck with your Frank Smith, it's a resilient plant, I'm sure you will be fine.. we are going into the growing season so that will also help!


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## NYEric (Sep 23, 2020)

Nope, not bugs. Internal issue. Good luck.


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## southernbelle (Sep 23, 2020)

drbeeraz said:


> Here are some more photos, no insects that I can see....hereView attachment 22357
> View attachment 22358
> View attachment 22359
> View attachment 22360
> View attachment 22361


Second photo in this string looks suspiciously like virus to me.


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## abax (Sep 23, 2020)

drB, I'd like some follow up on this whatever it is. I see something
similar on one Phrag. and it's not bacterial or lack of cal/mag. The
plant is a recent purchase and seems stalled.


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## drbeeraz (Sep 23, 2020)

abax: I don't think mine is lack of cal/mag either as I am using MSU fertilizer and reverse osmosis water. I also have given some cal-mag plus recently. My viral test kits arrived today. I'll let you know what they show. The brown leaf tips are actually a bit of burn I believe. I am in Arizona and my swamp cooler went out for about 30 mins one day when it was like 110 and the greenhouse quickly overheated for about 30 mins, several of my plants have some burns from that day. The sphagnum that it is in is new so I don't think that's the problem. They like a little higher pH water so I have dressed the top with oyster shell to try and increase the pH a bit. I hope it's not a virus. I had been looking for one of these for a long time and finally found this one to buy, I'll be sick if it dies......


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## drbeeraz (Sep 23, 2020)

Well my CymMV/ORSV test is negative...still doesn't mean it does not have some other virus I suppose.....


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## southernbelle (Sep 24, 2020)

drbeeraz said:


> abax: I don't think mine is lack of cal/mag either as I am using MSU fertilizer and reverse osmosis water. I also have given some cal-mag plus recently. My viral test kits arrived today. I'll let you know what they show. The brown leaf tips are actually a bit of burn I believe. I am in Arizona and my swamp cooler went out for about 30 mins one day when it was like 110 and the greenhouse quickly overheated for about 30 mins, several of my plants have some burns from that day. The sphagnum that it is in is new so I don't think that's the problem. They like a little higher pH water so I have dressed the top with oyster shell to try and increase the pH a bit. I hope it's not a virus. I had been looking for one of these for a long time and finally found this one to buy, I'll be sick if it dies......


I had a Phrag in pretty fresh moss and it was declining. Orchids Ltd recommended getting it out of moss as it has pretty acidic pH. (They recommend bark or Grodan Rockwool Grow Cubes for phrags.). Your oyster shell should be countering that, but have you done a run off pH?


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## PeteM (Sep 24, 2020)

southernbelle said:


> I had a Phrag in pretty fresh moss and it was declining. Orchids Ltd recommended getting it out of moss as it has pretty acidic pH. (They recommend bark or Grodan Rockwool Grow Cubes for phrags.). Your oyster shell should be countering that, but have you done a run off pH?


I agree. I have been instructed to move phrags out of moss by breeders / vendors ASAP after they have sold them to me in moss. I don't personally know any growers who use moss for large kovachii hybrids other than for transport. I also have not searched this forum for this. I’m sure someone who grows in moss can chime in.


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## richgarrison (Sep 24, 2020)

PeteM said:


> I agree. I have been instructed to move phrags out of moss by breeders / vendors ASAP after they have sold them to me in moss. I don't personally know any growers who use moss for large kovachii hybrids other than for transport. I also have not searched this forum for this. I’m sure someone who grows in moss can chime in.



i got a large plant (8" azalea pot) of Lutz Rolke in sphagnum from Carter and Holmes... was doing quite well... i moved it out only because the nuisance of the sphag going bad every 9 mos in my growing conditions... 

I think it's definitely one of those, 'what works for you, works for you'...  (to quote a very wise man...)


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## richgarrison (Sep 24, 2020)

drbeeraz said:


> Hello, I purchased this Phrag Frank Smith which has been doing well but has developed these pale green streaks and I am afraid it is viral or possibly bacterial. I have ordered CymM/Odon Ring virus test kits and are awaiting their arrival. Anyone have thoughts on what this looks like to them and possible treatment? I drenched the orchid with Physan to attempt to treat a bacterial pathogen.
> View attachment 22325



Awaiting a definitive diagnosis as well.... 

i've seen this in my collection... causes nothing but heartache when you can't diagnose something. ...especially when you know 'hope' isn't a very good treatment.


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## drbeeraz (Sep 24, 2020)

I have not done a pH runoff but went ahead and took it out of the moss and planted in bark. Roots all seemed fine and in fact there were a couple of nice new roots just emerging and a small new growth that appears to be fine. I will just keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best.....


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## abax (Sep 24, 2020)

Please keep us posted on this conundrum. The problem I'm seeing with
the same characteristics is in new potting medium and I'm stumped about
what to do or not do. The plant is Achental 'Fall River' division from
Woodstream and didn't have this discoloration on arrival. I have two
plants and the other isn't showing any problem at all.


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