# Pine needle humus



## dodidoki (Feb 14, 2013)

Has anyone experience with this potting substance? ( of course especially for cypris, maybe seleni)


----------



## gonewild (Feb 14, 2013)

We use pine needle mulch as a method to keep weeds from growing in landscape.
I don't think it might be a good choice for using as a potted plant media.


----------



## Rick (Feb 14, 2013)

dodidoki said:


> Has anyone experience with this potting substance? ( of course especially for cypris, maybe seleni)



I think its referenced for use in John Tullock's book "Growing Hardy Orchids"

Has lots of Cyp growing stuff.


----------



## wjs2nd (Feb 14, 2013)

I know it's very acidic.


----------



## cnycharles (Feb 14, 2013)

ram's head ladyslipper sometimes grows in this, in northern ny state; usually cedars though not exactly pine (northern white cedar over limestone pavement)


----------



## NYEric (Feb 14, 2013)

Haha! I still have the unopened box of plant humus you sent me Charles!


----------



## dodidoki (Feb 15, 2013)

gonewild said:


> We use pine needle mulch as a method to keep weeds from growing in landscape.
> I don't think it might be a good choice for using as a potted plant media.



Not eceptionally, just a part of potting mix. Anyway there is a video on youtube where you can see acalues emerging from the ground covered by lots of pine needles.


----------



## Stone (Feb 15, 2013)

The Cyps would be growing in soil/decomposed pine needles. Why not use them as a mulch on top of kanuma or some other acid medium?


----------



## keithrs (Feb 15, 2013)

I don't have experience growing cyps in pine needles but I do grow several terra orchids in 50/50 peat/perlite mixed in with 25% mulch and alittle organic "tomato" fertilizer that is sprinkled on about every three months. I top dress with maple leaf mold about 1" thick every winter when the leaves fall. I have worms in the pots to help decompose the leaf mold. Every year they have been doubling in size!

I don't see how cyps are any different.... The pine needle will make the soil a pH of around 4.5 or so which is what I have read most like any way. If your going to use pine needle mold, I would suggest pilling back the needles and getting yourself alittle of the humus under it(as long as your not disrupting other plant or in a protected area)trying not to disrupt it too much. This will get you a good diversity of fungi and bacteria. Disrupting the mycellium will make it useless for a long while.


My personal view is that worms will help you out if you grow in organic media. They break down the organics a lot faster to feed your plants, aerate the soil, and add a good diversity of bacteria to the soil. Adding some mycro to the mix will help too. 

Also.. I don't bury the dormant "bulbs" in the soil. I only put them about 25% in the soil and cover the rest with the leave mold. Again not sure how well these techniques will work for cyp but food for thought.


----------



## Linus_Cello (Feb 15, 2013)

Great Lakes Orchids used to sell a product that allows you to buffer the pH. Not sure when they'll have it again.

http://greatlakesorchids.com/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=61


----------



## Dido (Feb 15, 2013)

I am scared if you speak about low PH and Cyps. 
Most really like ca so I am just wondering. 
Reginae tolerate it but dont need it. 

Most of my cyps grwo with additional calcium and nutral to more PH. 

Only acaule needs low PH and we know that californicum liek not to high ones. But here have some people different opinions. 

Kanuma I have very difficult experience, only one person is reporting that it works. I kelled even a californicum I tryed over year of growing in one year in Kanuma. so I would not use Kanuma for Cyp. 

The most growers here have a high amount of different clays in the mix, but it has to stay in form and need a lot of air movement. 

Some use bark but I had bad experience. 

The best soil I have is still inorganic with only a little amount of rotted leaves. or garden soil. some say worm soil.....

So I would not use it in high concentration


----------



## keithrs (Feb 15, 2013)

I'm wondering if anyone has tried to inoculate dormant cyp tubers with mycorrhiza before planting them? It has a good effect on standard bulb and tuber plants into soil. 

pH of soil will slowly go down as microbes break it down Ca in soil. I prep my garden bed in dec. with tons of gypsum and dolomite. By the time march/April rolls around I have a slightly acidic pH from the high amounts of organics I add.


----------



## dodidoki (Feb 15, 2013)

Sphagnum ph is between 3,5-5,0. Kanum ph is between 4-4,5. Pine needle is as same as sphagnum. Akadama is neutral (7,0). I will try mix of pine needle soil: kanuma: akadama mix 1:1:2 ratio. I will test it on ferns first.
I got a few plants in simple kanuma, some of them died, others I repot still alive.
I think 4,5 is too low ph. Akadama maybe raises it to 5,5-6


----------



## wjs2nd (Feb 15, 2013)

I have some orchids (vandas) I'm trying in a 50/50 mix of kanuma and akadama. I'll know in a few months how it's going.


----------



## Rick (Feb 15, 2013)

keithrs said:


> I'm wondering if anyone has tried to inoculate dormant cyp tubers with mycorrhiza before planting them? It has a good effect on standard bulb and tuber plants into soil.
> 
> pH of soil will slowly go down as microbes break it down Ca in soil. I prep my garden bed in dec. with tons of gypsum and dolomite. By the time march/April rolls around I have a slightly acidic pH from the high amounts of organics I add.



We kind of brought this up in the discussions about Selenepedium.

A bunch of culture work was done on Cyp acule (which is a very acid loving species relative to many other Cyps), and this species was propagated quite succesfully at commercial levels by Vermont Lady Slipper. For years everyone said it was impossible to culture acule without understanding and supplementing the mycorrhiza, but this was not to be the case for Durkee's acule culture. They did great out of flask as long as pot pH was kept super low (with vinegar additons) and no fertilizer was added.


----------



## Rick (Feb 15, 2013)

wjs2nd said:


> I have some orchids (vandas) I'm trying in a 50/50 mix of kanuma and akadama. I'll know in a few months how it's going.



Just wondering why you are putting vandas in anything?

They do great just hanging them from a wire.

I have them in open baskets or broken clay pots with little or no media at all.


----------



## wjs2nd (Feb 15, 2013)

I grow inside and don't have the humidity. The root dry up. I've tried many different things. When I get a greenhouse it won't be a problem but for now I need to grow them in something. They do well in bark and moss, but I was curious about inorganics. The pot actually has a hydroton base layer and then the mix.


----------



## keithrs (Feb 24, 2013)

Rick said:


> We kind of brought this up in the discussions about Selenepedium.
> 
> A bunch of culture work was done on Cyp acule (which is a very acid loving species relative to many other Cyps), and this species was propagated quite succesfully at commercial levels by Vermont Lady Slipper. For years everyone said it was impossible to culture acule without understanding and supplementing the mycorrhiza, but this was not to be the case for Durkee's acule culture. They did great out of flask as long as pot pH was kept super low (with vinegar additons) and no fertilizer was added.



You can do the same with all plants(that I know of).... but ones inoculated, develop better root systems allowing the plant to whether dry periods and use fertilizers more efficiently, resulting in bigger plants and more flowers. Not to mention, have a much lower disease rate...

I'm just curious if any one had tried to inoculate the tubers before planting them in there mix of choice? And what the results where?


----------

