# What were they thinking?



## goldenrose (Oct 30, 2008)

Ross got me thinking with his thread what do you get when you cross a chihuahua with a saint bernard. Have you seen a listing for a new cross that made you go *What were they thinking? *This could be fun, let's hear about it!
This cross is registered - Edmond Samuel Ritter (sanderianum x charlesworthii). I couldn't find a picture, all I can imagine is a charles dorsal with sand's petals! Yikes!
or Renate Thum (sand. x sangii), this is a hard one to comment on!


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## Candace (Oct 30, 2008)

Umm. I bought the Renate Thum. But I killed it. Maybe that's for the best;>


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## goldenrose (Oct 30, 2008)

Candace said:


> Umm. I bought the Renate Thum. But I killed it. Maybe that's for the best;>


It would have been interesting to see what it looked like! What were you picturing it to look like? 
I'm having a hard time with why/what is the hybridizer looking for by combining such an elegant species as sand with something weird like sangii? I use to think sangii was kinda ugly, but then when I saw one in person, I really liked it & I got one! At best I can picture the dorsal & pouch of sangii & the petals of sand. At worst - reverse it - the petals of sangii on a dorsal & pouch of sand - oh yuck!


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## TADD (Oct 30, 2008)

Paph Kenneth Marple - philipinense x fairrieanum


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## Drorchid (Oct 30, 2008)

*What was I thinking??*

Okay, I have one for you, and actually I can change it to *What was I thinking?*? It is Paph. King Tutankhamen, a cross between concolor and sanderianum.

I hate to admit it but I am the breeder who is responsible for this ugly duckling:







Another seedling:






At the time I made it, because concolor x sanderianum had not been registered and I was curious to see what it would look like. I think in general Paph. sanderianum should only be used with other multifloral species or hybrids, if you cross it with anything else, it usually turns out ugly, because the petals usually will be all deformed. Another problem I have noticed with sanderianum hybrids, is that usually the first flower will never come out right, and is usually pinched.

Robert


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## Candace (Oct 30, 2008)

Rose, I was mainly interested in it because I really dig sangii and rarely see hybrids offered. Due, I'm sure, to it's rarity in collections and ability to stay alive in said collections. I sort of expected it to bloom out on the ugly side but the curiosity got the better of me. Interestingly the leaves looked more similar to sangii and I kept it alive for about 6 months before it got crown rot one night and keeled over. I would actually buy another because I've not learned my lesson.


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## biothanasis (Oct 30, 2008)

I like it...


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Oct 30, 2008)

I like it also........................................Eric


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## Heather (Oct 30, 2008)

Candace said:


> Rose, I was mainly interested in it because I really dig sangii and rarely see hybrids offered. Due, I'm sure, to it's rarity in collections and ability to stay alive in said collections.




Candace...do I have a sangii for you! And I really hate sangii... Will post photos tomorrow or Saturday. Glen Decker got an AM/AOS of 82 (should have been higher I think) a week or so ago and it's in his display at the MOS show this weekend. 

That said...I often find sanderianum hybrids don't cut it. Or at least that people hope for the best of sand. and cross it with things maybe they shouldn't.


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## Kevin (Oct 30, 2008)

goldenrose said:


> This cross is registered - Edmond Samuel Ritter (sanderianum x charlesworthii). I couldn't find a picture, all I can imagine is a charles dorsal with sand's petals! Yikes!



I'd like to see one. Sounds interesting. Why do you think it would be ugly? Btw, ugly is relative.


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## Kevin (Oct 30, 2008)

Drorchid said:


> Okay, I have one for you, and actually I can change it to *What was I thinking?*? It is Paph. King Tutankhamen, a cross between concolor and sanderianum.
> 
> I hate to admit it but I am the breeder who is responsible for this ugly duckling:
> Robert



Why do you say it is ugly? The petals would be nicer if they had better form, but other than that, I've seen Paphs that are uglier than that! (in my opinion). The colour is wild, though!:rollhappy: Where does that come from? I don't recal either parent species having any colour like that. This might be one to be used in breeding, possibly with rothschildianum, to get better form.

The first one I don't mind, but the second one reminds me of a lot of the Brachy/roth hybrids. yuck.


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## paphioboy (Oct 30, 2008)

Robert, maybe King Tut would be better off back-crossed to sand..? Wonder what might come out of it..


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## Roy (Oct 31, 2008)

Robert, I know I've commented on qualities or lack of in the odd flower but silly enough, I like these, might have to iron out the petals at the ends but they are nice. How are they for growth rate and flowering time span from flask.


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## paphreek (Oct 31, 2008)

goldenrose said:


> Ross got me thinking with his thread what do you get when you cross a chihuahua with a saint bernard. Have you seen a listing for a new cross that made you go *What were they thinking? *This could be fun, let's hear about it!
> This cross is registered - Edmond Samuel Ritter (sanderianum x charlesworthii). I couldn't find a picture, all I can imagine is a charles dorsal with sand's petals! Yikes!
> or Renate Thum (sand. x sangii), this is a hard one to comment on!



I bought one: Paph (hookerae x kolopakingi)


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## bench72 (Oct 31, 2008)

hmm... i've got a seedpod on my herrmannii crossed with a dianthum... it was just for kicks, ie wanted to see if the cross would take.. who knows it might still keel over and die...


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## SlipperKing (Oct 31, 2008)

Drorchid said:


> Okay, I have one for you, and actually I can change it to *What was I thinking?*? It is Paph. King Tutankhamen, a cross between concolor and sanderianum.
> 
> I hate to admit it but I am the breeder who is responsible for this ugly duckling:
> 
> Robert


Wow Robert! That is one fantastic Green Ovary! 


PS. pull the thing on the end off so I can see it better:evil:


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## goldenrose (Oct 31, 2008)

Drorchid said:


> Okay, I have one for you, and actually I can change it to *What was I thinking?*? It is Paph. King Tutankhamen, a cross between concolor and sanderianum..... I think in general Paph. sanderianum should only be used with other multifloral species or hybrids, if you cross it with anything else, it usually turns out ugly, because the petals usually will be all deformed. Another problem I have noticed with sanderianum hybrids, is that usually the first flower will never come out right, and is usually pinched.Robert


Sooner or later crosses would be made, how else would you know. I think as a whole, most roth crosses turn out pretty decent, if the crosses weren't made, how would you know what a good parent roth is?



Candace said:


> Rose, I was mainly interested in it because I really dig sangii and rarely see hybrids offered. Due, I'm sure, to it's rarity in collections and ability to stay alive in said collections. I sort of expected it to bloom out on the ugly side but the curiosity got the better of me. Interestingly the leaves looked more similar to sangii and I kept it alive for about 6 months before it got crown rot one night and keeled over. I would actually buy another because I've not learned my lesson.


:rollhappy:Candace I was thinking the same think when I bought a sangii x roth! :rollhappy: I'm buying the plant & we're laughing - it's either going to be something neat & unique or a dog! (Actually I was hoping for roth to dominate the form & sangii give more color?) 
Crown rot can take anything. I traded for a sangii over a year ago & so far it seems to be an easy keeper!




Kevin said:


> I'd like to see one. Sounds interesting. Why do you think it would be ugly? Btw, ugly is relative.


...in a previous post, picture sands pouch & dorsal with sangii's petals, YUCK ....or.... sangii's pouch & petals with sands dorsal .... would either be better than either parent? No, so why do it? But as stated ugly is relative, everyone has different tastes. I do like the color of Robert's cross & it does look like sand is somewhat dominate.


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## goldenrose (Oct 31, 2008)

paphreek said:


> I bought one: Paph (hookerae x kolopakingi)


I'm loving that people that have experience breeding are chiming in! Ross what are you hoping for with that cross? ... or just curious, like many of us?


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## Drorchid (Oct 31, 2008)

Roy said:


> Robert, I know I've commented on qualities or lack of in the odd flower but silly enough, I like these, might have to iron out the petals at the ends but they are nice. How are they for growth rate and flowering time span from flask.



The seedlings got planted out on Oct 4 2002 and the first seedling bloomed on July 26 2006, so that is less than 4 years, which is pretty fast for a sanderianum hybrid. I think the concolor made it bloom faster.

Robert


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## Roy (Oct 31, 2008)

Ok, what was I thinking with this cross.
P. praestans x ( P. Mem. Helene Colbert x Holdenii ) 








The pod is doing well also.


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## Drorchid (Oct 31, 2008)

Roy said:


> Ok, what was I thinking with this cross.
> P. praestans x ( P. Mem. Helene Colbert x Holdenii )



I really like your Paph. (Mem. Helene Colbert x Holdenii )!!, The colors and the form are really nice, but I agree I don't know if Paph. prasestans will improve it. I personally would put the Paph. (Mem. Helene Colbert x Holdenii ) onto something like Paph. mastersianum or a Paph. mastersianum/maudiae type cross.

Robert


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## goldenrose (Oct 31, 2008)

Roy said:


> Ok, what was I thinking with this cross.
> P. praestans x ( P. Mem. Helene Colbert x Holdenii )
> The pod is doing well also.


.....or were you thinking to chunk up the praestans & add more color????


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## bench72 (Oct 31, 2008)

Drorchid said:


> I really like your Paph. (Mem. Helene Colbert x Holdenii )!! I personally would put the Paph. (Mem. Helene Colbert x Holdenii ) onto something like Paph. mastersianum or a Paph. mastersianum/maudiae type cross.



I agree totally! I really like what the mastersianum does to the Maudiae-types.. course I might be a bit biased about this 

however, i like crosses just for the sake of seeing how it turns out... and this thread has inspired me so today I'm going to cross Paph urbanianum with Paph fowliei... fingers crossed.


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## paphreek (Oct 31, 2008)

goldenrose said:


> I'm loving that people that have experience breeding are chiming in! Ross what are you hoping for with that cross? ... or just curious, like many of us?



I didn't make this cross, but I found a two growth plant for sale and bought it out of curiosity. Call it researchoke:


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## Roy (Oct 31, 2008)

Drorchid said:


> I really like your Paph. (Mem. Helene Colbert x Holdenii )!!, The colors and the form are really nice, but I agree I don't know if Paph. prasestans will improve it. I personally would put the Paph. (Mem. Helene Colbert x Holdenii ) onto something like Paph. mastersianum or a Paph. mastersianum/maudiae type cross.
> 
> Robert



Robert, I would have loved a mastersianum to use or a good Maudiae/ sukhakulii type to put with it but neither I or my Paph growing friends had anything near flowering to get fresh pollen so I used what was out. P.mastersianum here is just not available, if it is its sold in minutes at a healthy price.


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## goldenrose (Nov 1, 2008)

paphreek said:


> I didn't make this cross ........ Call it researchoke:


 :rollhappy:Oh -I like that! I'm researching my sangi x roth cross!


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