# Neofinetia falcata Flowers Last for 4 weeks...



## Happypaphy7 (Oct 29, 2016)

and counting.

I've never had neo flowers lasting more than 10 days before losing fragrance and turning brown.

I have one (Shutennou x Koto) whose flowers opened up 4 weeks ago, and the flowers are still in pristine conditions with strong fragrance.

I wonder if this quality is mutation or sign of hybrid??


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## SlipperFan (Oct 29, 2016)

Lucky you. None of my straight neos last more than 10 days. Lots of hybrids with other Vandaceous do.


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## myxodex (Oct 30, 2016)

I have had neo flowers last more than 10 days but only in cooler weather which can happen at anytime of year here in the UK. Cool weather also reduces the fragrance production a lot and this seems to relate to how long the flowers last. It makes sense for flowers to save the fragrance production for warm evenings when moths are more active.

I have a variety called "Hien" that I know very little about. This one is a bit chunkier than my other reds, thicker leaves and roots and flowers with a slightly heavier substance than my other reds. These can last up to 14 days. Hien doesn't look like a hybrid but I cannot be sure. Seikai and my two amami types Kokouden and Manjushagi typically last a bit longer than average but I don't have any that make it much past 14 days even in cool weather.


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## Lanmark (Oct 30, 2016)

@Happy -- I'm certain it's a sign of hybridization of Neofinetia falcata with another species. Take a look at the three links below. My best guess about your long-lasting flowers is that the 'Koto' parent used to make your plant is most likely something similar to what is shown in the third link.

https://newworldorchids.com/shop/koto-fukurin/

http://neofinetia.com.ua/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=782

http://www.orchidspirit.com/forum/showthread.php?21242-Neofinetia-falcata-Koto


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## Happypaphy7 (Oct 30, 2016)

I like that plant in the second link! 

I have bloomed two plants of the same cross, Shutennou x Koto, and they all basically like that plant in the third link you shared, except the flower shape was more typical of neo rather than those curly flowers in the photo from the last link. 
Their flowers lasted for barely 10 days.

The plant being discussed for this thread looks pretty much like regular white neo with hint of pink on the pedicel, so like a pale version of Shutennou.

Whatever this Koto variety is, I really like this plant! a strong grower as well.


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## Lanmark (Oct 31, 2016)

It sounds like your plant is a keeper what with flowers which last that long and retain their fragrance for the duration!


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## Happypaphy7 (Oct 31, 2016)

Keeper for sure! and one spike hold as many as 12 flowers! 

I sense no fragrance tonight, so the end must be near! lol


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## naoki (Nov 10, 2016)

myxodex said:


> I have a variety called "Hien" that I know very little about. This one is a bit chunkier than my other reds, thicker leaves and roots and flowers with a slightly heavier substance than my other reds. These can last up to 14 days. Hien doesn't look like a hybrid but I cannot be sure. Seikai and my two amami types Kokouden and Manjushagi typically last a bit longer than average but I don't have any that make it much past 14 days even in cool weather.



I looked at the database in Japan. Chinese characters for this variety is 緋燕, which means "crimson swallow". It is not registered, but it is supposed to be a real species. Crescent tsuke, doro-jiku (brown stem color), doro-ne (brown root tip), so mostly typical features in these fronts. The stem of the inflorescence is purple, and the spur and tips of petals/sepals are red. The locality where this variety was originated is not known.


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## naoki (Nov 10, 2016)

Lanmark said:


> @Happy -- I'm certain it's a sign of hybridization of Neofinetia falcata with another species. Take a look at the three links below. My best guess about your long-lasting flowers is that the 'Koto' parent used to make your plant is most likely something similar to what is shown in the third link.
> 
> https://newworldorchids.com/shop/koto-fukurin/
> 
> ...



First two are pure. Kotou-fukurin is an old registered variety (from 1880). Some people think this could be derived from Higashide-miyako. 2nd one (Koto, old-capital) is derived from Higashide-miyako. 3rd one is a hybrid, but nobody seems to know the exact parent, as we discussed here before.


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## Erythrone (Nov 10, 2016)

What I saw on my Noef collection:

Young plants usually bear blooms that don't last long
Hybrids like Ogonmaru, Kouhou and Fujimusume have blooms that can last many months, even if the plant is young.
Temperature is also important. Cool weather=blooms that last longer

My first Neof was a Sutennou, and the blooming season was really short... less than 14 days. The same plant have blooms that can last much longer now (1 or 2 months?). And I am not talking about succesion of spikes.


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## myxodex (Nov 11, 2016)

naoki said:


> I looked at the database in Japan. Chinese characters for this variety is 緋燕, which means "crimson swallow". It is not registered, but it is supposed to be a real species. Crescent tsuke, doro-jiku (brown stem color), doro-ne (brown root tip), so mostly typical features in these fronts. The stem of the inflorescence is purple, and the spur and tips of petals/sepals are red. The locality where this variety was originated is not known.



Thanks for the info Naoki, that is helpful. I didn't think it was a hybrid. It bears some similarity to a variety called Kokka.

On a side note I have been experimenting with raising some varietal crosses from seed. Still working out the process, frustrating because it's not easy to get sterile replating without a flow cabinet, but it's great fun to see baby plants grow from a just visible speck. Anyhow I made Koukakouden X Hien and plated the seeds in early May. Some of these are producing their second leaves and have begun root growth already which is faster than any of the other crosses I've made. The curious thing is that a proportion of the more advanced seedlings have leaves that are half purple from heavy anthocyanin production towards the stem, but with green leaf tips. I was a bit concerned when I first noticed this as it can be a sign of stress ... but the purple ones are the most vigorous. Hopefully, I can get a sterile replating of these and can see whether this feature continues on as the plants mature or is just a passing phase. There is a red variety called Senko that has heavy anthocyanin pigmentation on it's leaves. Alas, replating seedlings is my achilles heel in this little project.


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## MattWoelfsen (Jan 12, 2017)

myxodex said:


> Thanks for the info Naoki, that is helpful. I didn't think it was a hybrid. It bears some similarity to a variety called Kokka.
> 
> 
> 
> On a side note I have been experimenting with raising some varietal crosses from seed. Still working out the process, frustrating because it's not easy to get sterile replating without a flow cabinet, but it's great fun to see baby plants grow from a just visible speck. Anyhow I made Koukakouden X Hien and plated the seeds in early May. Some of these are producing their second leaves and have begun root growth already which is faster than any of the other crosses I've made. The curious thing is that a proportion of the more advanced seedlings have leaves that are half purple from heavy anthocyanin production towards the stem, but with green leaf tips. I was a bit concerned when I first noticed this as it can be a sign of stress ... but the purple ones are the most vigorous. Hopefully, I can get a sterile replating of these and can see whether this feature continues on as the plants mature or is just a passing phase. There is a red variety called Senko that has heavy anthocyanin pigmentation on it's leaves. Alas, replating seedlings is my achilles heel in this little project.





Any update on your flasking project?


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## myxodex (Jan 14, 2017)

MattWoelfsen said:


> Any update on your flasking project?



Not anything significant. The Koukakuden x Hien cross does seem to be the most vigorous of the crosses I've made, and a few of these already have second roots and are working on their third leaves and so are ready for replating. Compared to my earlier attempts to grow neo seeds I finally have a medium that seems to work well, germination can be estimated at two weeks, and first leaf at +/- 6 months for most crosses, although some are slower. The germination medium is derived by guess work from a paper written in Korean with an English abstract. This is one of the hyponex based media, so details of composition cannot be known for sure, however I made my own from scratch using individual salts, and after a few failures, I've got one that works well. The problem is that my replate medium (about third strength of the germination medium), doesn't work and the seedlings go brown and die after a few months. Also at a technical level my glove box is not good enough for replating as I get too much contamination from having to open the flask repeatedly for each seedling transfer. 

Another issue is that I can only really do this sort of work when my partner is away as I need to take over the kitchen and ajoining room, spray isopropanol disinfectant around liberally (which would freak her out as the place smells like a hospital). Any she's away for four days at the begining of February so I get another go at this, ... only if I've recovered sufficiently from a nasal polyp removal operation I have on Tuesday. I just need to design a better replate medium. I'm considering just trying my germination medium with a bit of auxin (NAA) and chitosan added.

Anyway, I might try to take some photos when I'm doing it despite my camera having lost it's manual controls and is reduced to a "point-and-click" operation.
I'd like to post some pics of the seedlings, they look so cute, but I need the macro facility on my camera to behave in auto mode. Anyway it's great fun and camera permitting I'll get some pics. If I do I'll start a new thread.


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## MattWoelfsen (Jan 14, 2017)

Thank you for your update!


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