# Paph anitum flask



## eggshells (Jun 27, 2012)

Hi everyone. As you know by now that I love posting the whole documentation and process of my deflasking. I love going back to a thread and compare the plants from before and how it looks like now. I also hope that this can help someone who wants to try it for the first time. I think I will keep posting and updating all my deflasking as long as I can.

That being said, I would like to share to you guys the deflasking of my most favourite paph species. I have been looking for it for a long time and finally I got rewarded. So we will see 20 years from now.

The flask






swimming










sushi paph




















compots


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## SlipperKing (Jun 27, 2012)

Boy! You've got your work cut out for yourself! This is one of the slowest growing multis I have.


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## eggshells (Jun 28, 2012)

SlipperKing said:


> Boy! You've got your work cut out for yourself! This is one of the slowest growing multis I have.



Yeah... What was I thinking. Oh well! Don't have to worry about about space for a while then. Maybe one or two clones will be exceptional and be a fast grower.


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## MorandiWine (Jun 28, 2012)

SCORE!! Nice looking babies. So hurry and wait for them to flower!

Good luck,

tyler


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## Amadeus (Jun 28, 2012)

NICE and congratulations! May I ask how you acquired them?


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## Fabrice (Jun 28, 2012)

Good for you.

But I hope your seller is sure because there are lots of bullshits with anitum flasks... Too bad!


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## eggshells (Jun 28, 2012)

Fabrice said:


> Good for you.
> 
> But I hope your seller is sure because there are lots of bullshits with anitum flasks... Too bad!



I agree. Its really hard as there is always a risk involve when buying flask as you have to grow them first to know what you got. However, I got this from a friend so I know that he is not going to screw me. That said we don't know where t came from. Anyway, I have a backup plan if this doesn't work out.


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## Shiva (Jun 28, 2012)

Twenty years from now I'll be 85!:snore:They look good though!


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## Paphman910 (Jun 28, 2012)

Nice! I can't wait to see them grow up!

Paphman910


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## Ditto (Jun 28, 2012)

I would have waited for another 3 months before ex-planting - the plantlets seems small on the picture


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## eggshells (Jun 29, 2012)

Ditto said:


> I would have waited for another 3 months before ex-planting - the plantlets seems small on the picture



Hi Ditto, As you can see on the first picture. The flask was jumbled so there is now way I can leave it for 3 more months. All I can do now is wait and hope for the best. I hope they will adapt quickly. I will know one month from now.


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## Paphman910 (Jun 29, 2012)

eggshells said:


> Hi Ditto, As you can see on the first picture. The flask was jumbled so there is now way I can leave it for 3 more months. All I can do now is wait and hope for the best. I hope they will adapt quickly. I will know one month from now.



My flask did the same! No choice but to deflask as all the seedlings were covered with agar.

Paphman910


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## eggshells (Jun 29, 2012)

Don't worry paphman it should grow. You're awesome at deflasking.


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## SlipperFan (Jun 29, 2012)

They look very healthy right now. Good luck with them.

But 20 years???


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## Ditto (Jun 29, 2012)

Yeah right on - I noticed that now - 



eggshells said:


> Hi Ditto, As you can see on the first picture. The flask was jumbled so there is now way I can leave it for 3 more months. All I can do now is wait and hope for the best. I hope they will adapt quickly. I will know one month from now.


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## SlipperKing (Jul 3, 2012)

SlipperFan said:


> They look very healthy right now. Good luck with them.
> 
> But 20 years???



Well at least our grand kids will be able to enjoy them!


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## eggshells (Jul 3, 2012)

I am hoping that it will be 5 years and at least one of them will bloom. In fact some of them are growing roots. 20 years might be an exaggeration on my part. But then again, they are known to be slow growers.


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## NYEric (Jul 3, 2012)

Thanks for sharing and good luck!


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## Kramer Chids (Jul 23, 2012)

They look fantastic. I look forward to your updates.


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## likespaphs (Jul 23, 2012)

are they blooming yet?
oke:


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## eggshells (Jul 24, 2012)

likespaphs said:


> are they blooming yet?
> oke:



No, They are still tiny.


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## Pete (Jul 24, 2012)

yikes. thats plenty! i never even see or hear of this fantastic species being offered that much. keep us updated on their/your progress!


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## brice (Jul 24, 2012)

Hi, 

Very nice tiny baby anitum, look healthy, can I ask you which substrate are you using to grow them?

Thank you and good luck 

Brice


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## polyantha (Jul 24, 2012)

Now that is a good flask and a good species. I have a fs plant: very hard to keep alive, hard to establish. The most difficult plant in my collection, much harder than adductum. For almost one year it didn't grow, it only developed one or two new leafs on the new growth...


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## Paphman910 (Jul 24, 2012)

polyantha said:


> Now that is a good flask and a good species. I have a fs plant: very hard to keep alive, hard to establish. The most difficult plant in my collection, much harder than adductum. For almost one year it didn't grow, it only developed one or two new leafs on the new growth...



I bet it didn't have many roots!

Paphman910


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## eggshells (Jul 25, 2012)

brice said:


> Hi,
> 
> Very nice tiny baby anitum, look healthy, can I ask you which substrate are you using to grow them?
> 
> ...



Absolutely, Planted it in fine bark, charcoal and perlite equal parts.


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## brice (Jul 25, 2012)

Thank you very much 

Brice


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## eggshells (Sep 12, 2012)

*Update 09/12/12:*

Though I will update this thread today. So overall they are doing okay. Not as fast as my other compots but still pretty good compared to what I was expecting. I guess lowering my expectations paid off.

Compot 1 ~3 months ago and today:




.





Compt 2 ~3 months ago and today



.


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## Rick (Sep 12, 2012)

Looks like definite progress.


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## SlipperKing (Sep 12, 2012)

The green parts have gotten bigger. What about the the parts you can't see, the roots?


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## eggshells (Sep 12, 2012)

They do have new roots albeit thin long roots. Maybe they will get fatter once they mature?


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## Cheyenne (Sep 12, 2012)

XEggshells, I know we have talked about adductum /anitum culture before but I will say it again. It has been my experience that you should wait as long as possible to repot them. To me they seem to do better when the bark acidifys. They do not seem to get a jump start like other paphs when you repot them. Mine seem to stand still for months after they are repotted. Also when I fertilize I try to mix fert for them with a lower ph then my other plants. If you can ever locate some fern roots to pot them in I would recommend it. In Pauls post he mentioned that is what he used for that nice adductum he posted. I bought two plants of asplenium nidus(birds nest fern) and grew them for a while just to rip them out and use the root stock. You are so lucky to have a flask of these. They look good so far. Nice job. Since anitum is a variety of adductum I should be able to get them in this country but so far I haven't been able to find anyone who will import them, or anyone who has them. I am green with envy.


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## eggshells (Sep 12, 2012)

Hi Cheyenne, yes I appreciate all the information. When me and my friend were obsessing about anitum and adductum. I am quite amazed by this species. We are searching all over and asking people regarding their culture, habitat information, etc. We did our research however, the information was scarce. I am always glad when there is a discussion about it and I agree with all your points. 

I do use dynagrow which is high in ammoniacal nitrogen and could easily bring down the PH of my tap water from 7.2 to around 6.5 ish. Tree fern is a little bit hard to obtain here as we heed phytosanitary documents to import them. I do however seeing good results on my culture now. 

Here is my sad little plant before and now.




.





I think that one of the most important cultural parameters for this species are light levels. These guys seems to be stressed with a lot of light.

If in the future you happen to be in Canada and they are still alive. Send me a message and I can spare a seedling for you.

Not sure where I found this picture but if you look at the anitum habitat. Its growing under a big tree and clearly that is heavily shaded.


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## Paphman910 (Sep 12, 2012)

My anitum compots are not doing as well as eggshells! Only difference is that eggshell added more perlite than my compots so it needs good aeration and doesn't like medium that stays wet for long periods of time. I found that out the hard way with my adductums as well.

Another member told me he use moss and perlite (probably the large ones) at 1:1(?) in clay pot.

If growing in plastic pot better to use bark than moss!

Paphman910


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## Justin (Sep 12, 2012)

agree on the low light. when i first deflasked adductum 5 years ago i put them in too strong of light, and they got stunted. It was only when i moved them out from under the lights about 9 months ago that they finally started growing. will know better for next time.


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## naoki (Sep 13, 2012)

According to Dr. Tanaka, P. anitum is in very shady habitat, and P. adductum is moderately bright:

http://www.orchid.or.jp/orchid/people/tanaka/orchid/org/newpaph6.html

The translation is not perfect, but there is a comparison table.


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## Cheyenne (Sep 13, 2012)

That is such a great picture. It shows alot about culture of these plants. Look at how dark the leaves are on that plant, I know adductum are greener but if you have anitum in the right light it shows you what color they should be. I still haven't seen one in cultivation that has that color foliage. There stem is so long so they can get up out of the brush. You can clearly see the mound that the plant is growing on. It looks like it has moss on the top, and underneath it probably has layers of dead moss and old fern roots. That is what makes the ph lower compared to most multis we grow. Its funny how we group plants with the way we treat them, most multis like bright light an alkaline airy mix, lots of fert and to dry out a good bit between waterings. All these things lead to disaster with adductum and anitum, and they are rare in cultivation. Makes sense to me. As you know randsii is also rare and it is supposed to grow in the same area and conditions, and can make a natural hybrid with adductum. When I said fern roots I was not refering to the hard sticks if tree fern fiber but to the roots of asplenium nidus (birds nest fern), you can buy them at any nursery legally that sell ferns and houseplants some times even the big box stores. There roots are alot softer anhold more water they are like osmunda.


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## Justin (Sep 13, 2012)

my mature anitum is in a mix with 50% bark 50% sphaghum moss. The moss helps the roots stay moist...I usually grow it in the shade of my bigger multi's under a 250W MH. Lately I've moved it a little brighter since it looks ready to bud soon.

My seedlings are in a fine bark mix, and are in very deep shade where they have been taking off (relatively speakng). I'm actually going to move them back under the lights soon (10" below 4x4" shoplights) and see how they do.

All these plants get the same fert as my other multis (50% RO/tapwater with a little under 1/2 tsp low-K fertilizer), at about pH of 7. I need to measure the run-off but it is probably pH 6.5.


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## Paphman910 (Sep 13, 2012)

Justin said:


> my mature anitum is in a mix with 50% bark 50% sphaghum moss. The moss helps the roots stay moist...I usually grow it in the shade of my bigger multi's under a 250W MH. Lately I've moved it a little brighter since it looks ready to bud soon.
> 
> My seedlings are in a fine bark mix, and are in very deep shade where they have been taking off (relatively speakng). I'm actually going to move them back under the lights soon (10" below 4x4" shoplights) and see how they do.
> 
> All these plants get the same fert as my other multis (50% RO/tapwater with a little under 1/2 tsp low-K fertilizer), at about pH of 7. I need to measure the run-off but it is probably pH 6.5.



What is your humidity level? My humidity level is high and the moss would stay wet for long periods of time and rot the roots. 


Paphman910


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## Justin (Sep 13, 2012)

I grow indoors on lightstands, so i don't have greenhouse conditions. humidity is 60-70% in the summer, and i try to keep it at 50% in the winter. Temperatures on the cool side year-round…mid 70’s (F) in the summer and high 60’s in the winter. We get several weeks with good night-time dips into the 50’s in the fall, which is great for spikes in early spring.

I wish I could grow warmer and with more humidity, but have to compromise with the fact that I grow in our living space. My roths, stonei, etc. would probably grow a lot faster in a warm greenhouse, but they do grow and they flower so I can’t complain. lowii is one species that for some reason grows like a weed for me. barbatum-types don’t do as well.


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## Paphman910 (Sep 13, 2012)

Justin said:


> I grow indoors on lightstands, so i don't have greenhouse conditions. humidity is 60-70% in the summer, and i try to keep it at 50% in the winter. Temperatures on the cool side year-round…mid 70’s (F) in the summer and high 60’s in the winter. We get several weeks with good night-time dips into the 50’s in the fall, which is great for spikes in early spring.
> 
> I wish I could grow warmer and with more humidity, but have to compromise with the fact that I grow in our living space. My roths, stonei, etc. would probably grow a lot faster in a warm greenhouse, but they do grow and they flower so I can’t complain. lowii is one species that for some reason grows like a weed for me. barbatum-types don’t do as well.



Thanks for the info! How many lowii do you have? If it grows like a weed I will have trouble because I have about 50 lowii album seedlings from 2 flasks.

Paphman910


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## Justin (Sep 13, 2012)

I have 4 adults and 2NBS...yes watch out...lowii can bloom on a relatively small plant (although it can take a few years to get there) but as they get older the plants can get BIG. So worth the space though...


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## Paphman910 (Sep 13, 2012)

Justin said:


> I have 4 adults and 2NBS...yes watch out...lowii can bloom on a relatively small plant (although it can take a few years to get there) but as they get older the plants can get BIG. So worth the space though...



Thanks Justin for the warning! I got the second flask as a replacement because it was starting to go!

Paphman910


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## cattmad (Sep 15, 2012)

you should be very happy with those


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## Rick (Sep 15, 2012)

Paphman910 said:


> Thanks Justin for the warning! I got the second flask as a replacement because it was starting to go!
> 
> Paphman910



I lost my first two flasks of lowii when I was growing high K. Not all at once, but trickled losses over about 3 years out of flask.

So I picked up two new flasks just prior to coming up with low K a couple years ago, and now I also have 50 or so lowii growing at a reasonable rate. A few that I separated out into baskets are growing very fast. About a dozen are still in compot just because I don't have the space to pot them up individually.


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## Paphman910 (Sep 15, 2012)

Rick said:


> I lost my first two flasks of lowii when I was growing high K. Not all at once, but trickled losses over about 3 years out of flask.
> 
> So I picked up two new flasks just prior to coming up with low K a couple years ago, and now I also have 50 or so lowii growing at a reasonable rate. A few that I separated out into baskets are growing very fast. About a dozen are still in compot just because I don't have the space to pot them up individually.



You must have lots of space! I got the replacement from Sam because it had so much burnt leaves and the bottom leaves are dying in the flask.

I look forward to growing them and hopefully if I am out of space ... I'll flog them off to eggshell!

Paphman910


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## Rick (Sep 15, 2012)

Paphman910 said:


> You must have lots of space!



Only a 12X12 GH, but I've been going vertical too!


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## orchideya (Feb 18, 2015)

Is there an update on these eggshells? 

I pre-ordered a flask of anitums and researching the process .
So far I found this:
- low light;
- no often repottings;
- my usual deflasking mix of fine bark with perlite and a bit of sphag pieces should work.

What else?
Thanks


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## Paphman910 (Feb 18, 2015)

orchideya said:


> Is there an update on these eggshells?
> 
> I pre-ordered a flask of anitums and researching the process .
> So far I found this:
> ...



Survival rate is very low from flask! They were too small to deflask and it was jumbled very badly. Out of 2 flask I only got 2 seedlings left. They came from Heng Sheng Orchids. They are really slow growers!

They rot from the bottom of the base very quickly. If you have a chance to buy flask I would suggest Ching Hua. Their flask are really healthy and much better than HS flask.


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## orchideya (Feb 18, 2015)

Thank you for the info Paphman910. 
I am getting it from Ching Hua, they will be coming to our Ottawa show in April.
Do you have pics of your 2 seedlings? They are about 2 years old now, right?


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## orchideya (Feb 18, 2015)

2 seedlings out of 2 flasks -that sounds discouraging, especially knowing how successful you are with multies.


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## Paphman910 (Feb 18, 2015)

orchideya said:


> 2 seedlings out of 2 flasks -that sounds discouraging, especially knowing how successful you are with multies.



I totally agree with you!


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## orchideya (Feb 18, 2015)

I am really sorry about the loss of your seedlings.
Were they mailed to you and jumbled during transition?


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## eggshells (Feb 18, 2015)

I'm very encouraging person when it comes to paphs but this one species is what I don't recommend to start from flask. If you were to ask me, save your money and get an established seedling instead. If you really want them, you will have better chance on seedling than a flask. There is a reason why they are so rare and so few. They are very hard to grow from flask.

Same thing happened to my plants like paphman. Who knows? Maybe you will do better than us but as for me. I am done with anitum flask until I can flask them myself.


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## Bjorn (Feb 18, 2015)

I got a flask in 2012 as well..... Can confirm how slow they are:sob: but I have half a dozen left size, perhaps 1-2inch LS at most:sob: guess I'll have to wait another 20years, what a gift for my 75years aniversary!:viking:
PS: just started a flask of adductum:evil:


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## Cat (Feb 18, 2015)

Bjorn said:


> I got a flask in 2012 as well..... Can confirm how slow they are:sob: but I have half a dozen left size, perhaps 1-2inch LS at most:sob: guess I'll have to wait another 20years, what a gift for my 75years aniversary!:viking:
> PS: just started a flask of adductum:evil:



Omg your post made me laugh. Sorry was just funny because of the smilies you used. My bad.


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## eggshells (Feb 18, 2015)

Bjorn said:


> PS: just started a flask of adductum:evil:



Aren't you a glutton for punishment.:rollhappy:

Just kidding. I think you should do well.


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## Paphman910 (Feb 18, 2015)

orchideya said:


> Thank you for the info Paphman910.
> I am getting it from Ching Hua, they will be coming to our Ottawa show in April.
> Do you have pics of your 2 seedlings? They are about 2 years old now, right?



It is best to pick them up from the show as you can inspect it! Don't be afraid to turn down the flask if it looks horrible.

I will take a photo for you. My seedling are only about 2 inches leafspan.


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## Paphman910 (Feb 18, 2015)

orchideya said:


> I am really sorry about the loss of your seedlings.
> Were they mailed to you and jumbled during transition?



Yes, they were mailed and got jumbled up real badly. HS flask agar are very very soft and dissolve easily in water.


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## Justin (Feb 18, 2015)

speaking just about adductum, the last flask i got from chuck acker was very easy to grow.  i killed a bunch due to grower error (fertilized them too strong) but i have 17 nice ones left. 

i also grew an adductum flask from sam about 9 years ago and the first few are finally reaching maturity. they are the slowest species i've ever grown.


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## Alex (Feb 18, 2015)

I agree about the HS flasks, they do not travel well at all. I got some (including anitum) from Formosa orchids, who are really just a trader for HS, and they arrived in a shocking state. Broken leaves on each and every one, in fact almost no leaves intact. Subsequent progress has been very poor, only a few remain.

I think one answer may be to buy flasks more locally if at all possible, long distance travel is just no good for flasks.

Alex


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## orchideya (Feb 18, 2015)

I did buy flask from HS once before, it was Paph hangianum, through Crystal Star, and I was happy with it. Agar intact, plants are good size, nice roots. But I find parvis in general come out of flask sturdier and stronger than multis.


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## orchideya (Feb 18, 2015)

Paphman910 said:


> It is best to pick them up from the show as you can inspect it! Don't be afraid to turn down the flask if it looks horrible.



What would horrible flask look like? Besides jumbled agar what are other indicators of bad flask?


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## eggshells (Feb 18, 2015)

orchideya said:


> What would horrible flask look like? Besides jumbled agar what are other indicators of bad flask?



Bottom leaves starting to brown.


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## SlipperFan (Feb 18, 2015)

orchideya said:


> What would horrible flask look like? Besides jumbled agar what are other indicators of bad flask?





eggshells said:


> Bottom leaves starting to brown.



Mold growing on the media.


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## Bjorn (Feb 19, 2015)

I have had loads of flasks from various sources, and yes, those from HS have a very soft agar. Mostly , I have had good results even though they arrive in a jumbled state. The variation is big though. Experiences with CH are limited but good, from others...from good to terrible. Depends very much on whether or not they have been mailed or not. Best results may have been on those picked up at shows, but here my experience is limted - unfortunately.
Interestingly, also season seems to play a role. Spring arrivals seems better than fall arrivals. Just marginal and gut feeling, but still.


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## naoki (Feb 19, 2015)

Bjorn said:


> I got a flask in 2012 as well..... Can confirm how slow they are:sob: but I have half a dozen left size, perhaps 1-2inch LS at most:sob: guess I'll have to wait another 20years, what a gift for my 75years aniversary!:viking:
> PS: just started a flask of adductum:evil:



Bjorn, how many leaves do they make per year on average? I have one (well, there was only 1 per flask), but it has made only 1.5 leaves in one year! LS was 1" from the beginning, and it hasn't changed. I'm pretty sure that I'll eventually lose it at this rate of growth... Your seedlings grow fast in general, so I just wondered how "quickly" this can grow under your care.


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## Bjorn (Feb 20, 2015)

naoki said:


> Bjorn, how many leaves do they make per year on average? I have one (well, there was only 1 per flask), but it has made only 1.5 leaves in one year! LS was 1" from the beginning, and it hasn't changed. I'm pretty sure that I'll eventually lose it at this rate of growth... Your seedlings grow fast in general, so I just wondered how "quickly" this can grow under your care.



You are up to standards Naoki, my guesstimate would be around 1 leaf per year. Might be a bit less or more but, who cares, better just forget and watch every four months. Absolutely nothing for the impatient


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## naoki (Feb 20, 2015)

Wow, that's crazy... It's kind of scary, and a small mistake can set them back a lot. Thanks for the info!


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## eggshells (Feb 20, 2015)

naoki said:


> Wow, that's crazy... It's kind of scary, and a small mistake can set them back a lot. Thanks for the info!



That's actually an understatement... Sadly. It's more like one mistake and they are dead. Especially on that size.


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## Stone (Jun 20, 2015)

Did any of these anitum survive eggshells?
The flask I got a while back has not done very well. I think my biggest problem was listening to all the advice about keeping them wet. Big mistake! I lost a few but managed to save most of them even though they lost a couple of leaves and most of the roots. (some are down to one leaf) I think the reason I saved them was letting them dry out before watering. I got rid of all the moss in the mix and just used perlite, bark and charcoal and waited till the top of the mix was crispy dry before watering. (there is still a bit of moisture down low) They responded by finally putting out new roots. Keeping them wet did not work for me at all!


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## Bjorn (Jun 20, 2015)

Interesting, i keep mine wet, but then they do not grow either:evil:BUT I have had them in this nongrowing state for several years, so  once in a while I believe to see some action but then.......


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## eggshells (Jun 20, 2015)

They are dead. The ones that was left 2-3 plants? Didn't do anything in months. No root, no leaves so I just chucked them. Waste of space. They easily rot with no apparent reason. That's why I advised people to not waste money on the anitum flask. Seedlings are much better.


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## Bjorn (Jun 21, 2015)

Sorry to hear, diffiult species thats right but so they said about randsii and I have figured out that one....its the challenge I guess


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