# Hengduan flasks with a side of terror



## silence882 (Feb 15, 2014)

I got some flasks from Hengduan at the Paph Forum today! I pre-ordered Paph. emersonii, Paph. barbigerum var. vejvarutianum, and Phrag. humboldtii. I then couldn't resist the temptation of a 6-plant flask of Paph. tigrinum. That is where the terror comes in - it was quite expensive ($150) and tigrinums are notorious for being difficult from flask. I am not sure this is the best decision I've ever made...

Clockwise from top left - Phrag. humboldtii, Paph. tigrinum, Paph. emersonii (2 pots), Paph. barbigerum var. vejvarutianum:




Wish me luck, I will need it!

--Stephen


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## SlipperFan (Feb 15, 2014)

Yes, good luck. The plants look nice and healthy!


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## Scott Ware (Feb 15, 2014)

Your compots look great. Indeed, _Paph. tigrinum_ has a reputation for looking great in the flask and making an expedited departure for the afterlife shortly after deflasking. I believe Holger is the one who developed the multi-phase flasking process for _Paph. tigrinum_ that results in a much greater survival rate once out of the flask.


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## Ozpaph (Feb 15, 2014)

good luck


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## eggshells (Feb 15, 2014)

Best of luck.


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## abax (Feb 15, 2014)

On the other hand, the tigers. might do quite well for you. Stranger things
have happened. All the plants look very healthy...good start.


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## papheteer (Feb 15, 2014)

Great looking seedlings! I wish you the best of luck!!


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## Trithor (Feb 16, 2014)

Stephen, that is a great selection of flasks/plants to have bought. I think that if the tiger flask was cheaper, you would not have felt terrified at all. The reality is the plants look great and the tiger seedlings have a high number of leaf pairs already. I am sure you are up to the challenge. Good luck, I for one am looking forward to the progress reports (positive progress I hope!)


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## John M (Feb 16, 2014)

They do look nice. Plus, the tigrinums couldn't look better; so, you are off to a good start. Good luck!


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## Linus_Cello (Feb 16, 2014)

Look forward to seeing these blooming plants at the next PF.


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## cnycharles (Feb 16, 2014)

There is a fungicide called pageant that helps many plant seedlings push out new roots and survive transplant much better. See if you can find some, could help all orchid transplanting from flask


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Justin (Feb 16, 2014)

looking good! keep us posted.


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## Paphman910 (Feb 16, 2014)

Nice compots! Tigrinums are difficult to establish from flask due to basal rot and difficult time producing roots! Lost most of my tigrinums from flask.


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## Bjorn (Feb 17, 2014)

Paphman910 said:


> Nice compots! Tigrinums are difficult to establish from flask due to basal rot and difficult time producing roots! Lost most of my tigrinums from flask.



So have I, BUT those from Hengduan (I got a flask in October) seem much better!


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## silence882 (Feb 17, 2014)

Thanks for all the good wishes! I will be sure to post an update in a few months. Unless of course I can't see through all the tears...



Scott Ware said:


> Your compots look great. Indeed, _Paph. tigrinum_ has a reputation for looking great in the flask and making an expedited departure for the afterlife shortly after deflasking. I believe Holger is the one who developed the multi-phase flasking process for _Paph. tigrinum_ that results in a much greater survival rate once out of the flask.



Holger told me that he's perfected the multi-flask process to produce the seedlings, but is still working to find the best method to grow them out of flask. These seedlings look very healthy with robust leaves.



Linus_Cello said:


> Look forward to seeing these blooming plants at the next PF.



I think you might mean 7 PFs from now...

--Stephen


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## silence882 (Aug 23, 2014)

6 Month Update! Overall I am very happy with the progress of the compots.

The tigrinum compot is doing well, with 5 out of 6 plants growing well. I fear the 6th is on death's door but it has looked unhealthy from the very beginning. Here they are in a 3.5" pot:




The vejvarutianum compot isn't doing nearly so well with greater than 50% mortality so far. The remaining seedlings seem to be slowly coming around. Here they are in a 5.5" pot:




The emersonii compots are in good shape. The seedlings are definitely growing. I've just sold the second compot to clear some space. Here they are in 5.5" pots:







The humboldtii compot is doing well. I've had very good root growth although vegetative growth has been slowish. The seedlings put out some new leaves then almost all of the flask leaves died back. Growth rate seems to be picking up though. Here is the compot as I repotted it today in a 5.5" pot:







--Stephen


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## abax (Aug 23, 2014)

Hey Stephen, I think you're doing GREAT! Strange, isn't it, that the ones
that are the most scary are doing well and the ones we don't worry about
dump on us? I think you're very brave.


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## NYEric (Aug 24, 2014)

Good luck. Thanks for sharing.


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## Justin (Aug 24, 2014)

great job on the tigrinum! what is your secret?


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## Trithor (Aug 24, 2014)

They are looking great! (I am very scared of coco husk, I find it works GREAT for a short while and then poisons the plants. I find it to be fantastic in the short term, but would be very wary of it after 6 months)
I am in awe of your success, and very very happy for you!


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## Justin (Aug 24, 2014)

i've found CHC is great for deflasking and giving plants a jump-start. but then after 6 months i switch to bark.


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## paphreek (Aug 24, 2014)

Trithor said:


> They are looking great! (I am very scared of coco husk, I find it works GREAT for a short while and then poisons the plants. I find it to be fantastic in the short term, but would be very wary of it after 6 months)
> I am in awe of your success, and very very happy for you!



When I grew in the house, I used a CHC mix and never had any trouble with die back. Seedlings were repotted when ready to move up to a larger size, usually around a year, and large plants were repotted every two years. The moisture retention in the chips was ideal for the drier conditions in the house. Once every six to eight weeks I flushed the pots with straight R/O water or a dilute mix of magnesium sulfate. When I did water, I always watered heavily, completely drenching the entire pot. Following this routine, I did not experience any noticeable problems with toxicity due to the mix.

Because I now grow in a greenhouse that has much higher humidity, I've switched to a less moisture retentive mix using Kiwi Bark as its base. I still add a small amount of CHC and it is interesting how the roots seem to find (almost seek out) the CHC chunks.


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## Lmpgs (Aug 24, 2014)

Good luck. They are looking healthy and vigorous.


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## Stella (Aug 24, 2014)

Wish you the best luck !!!


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## silence882 (Aug 25, 2014)

Thanks, everyone, for all the nice comments! The terror has abated substantially in the past 6 months.

I have had good luck with CHC. I water heavily all the time with a dilute fertilizer in every watering (1/8 tsp/gal of Ray's mix for pure water with my R/O water). I will occasionally do pure water to mix things up. Root growth has been great with CHC often resulting in plants that look comically over-potted for their LS. The CHC has retained water for longer periods than bark for me so it works well with my Phrags. I do have some Paphs in a bark mix, but they'll probably all be switched out to CHC at some point.

--Stephen


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## silence882 (Apr 13, 2015)

14 Month update! All the compots are 3.5" pots.

Glacial is how I would describe the growth of the tigrinums. However, I've somehow managed to keep the 5 healthy seedlings alive.




I haven't had any more mortality in the vejvarutianums. They're not fast growers, but the new leaves have a nice heavy substance.




The emersoniis are the most robust seedlings of the 4 flasks I got from Hengduan.




The humboldtiis are doing well. These guys seem to have a lot of lower leaf die back though which has slowed the growth of the seedlings.





I also have a couple other compots developing.

Here are the 9 seedlings I kept of Phrag. besseae fma. flavum from a flask from Chuck Acker that I got 16 months ago.




I got a flask of Phrag Evening Blaze in the same order from Chuck.




Lastly, some Paph. tranlienianum that I got as a flask from Than Nguyen 16 months ago. These guys are super slow growers for me, but the new leaves have a nice, thick substance to them so I'm not despairing.





And here is my tiny grow area. 8 square feet in the kitchen!


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## SlipperFan (Apr 13, 2015)

Looks good, Stephen. But what will you do when they grow up???


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## NYEric (Apr 13, 2015)

Thanks for the update.


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## abax (Apr 14, 2015)

I'm in awe of your growing area and your results. WOOHOO!


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## Justin (Apr 14, 2015)

looking good...congrats on the tigs!


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## Bjorn (Apr 14, 2015)

The tigers from Hengduan has been a positive experience for me. Mine are a bit larger than Stevens but I got them a few months earlier. No casualties so far, but root growing could improve.


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## MaryPientka (Apr 14, 2015)

Looking good!


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## silence882 (Apr 15, 2015)

SlipperFan said:


> Looks good, Stephen. But what will you do when they grow up???



Probably get yelled at when my wife comes home and a second level of orchid space has magically appeared above the first.


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## cnycharles (Apr 17, 2015)

If you enclose them in a tent (dark plastic), nobody would be able to see inside and notice a second story


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## SlipperFan (Apr 17, 2015)

silence882 said:


> Probably get yelled at when my wife comes home and a second level of orchid space has magically appeared above the first.


:rollhappy:


cnycharles said:


> If you enclose them in a tent (dark plastic), nobody would be able to see inside and notice a second story


Do you really think a woman wouldn't notice???:evil:


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## cnycharles (Apr 18, 2015)

SlipperFan said:


> :rollhappy:
> 
> Do you really think a woman wouldn't notice???:evil:



I tried to come up with a good reply but decided I'd just end up getting myself in trouble :>


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## SlipperFan (Apr 18, 2015)

cnycharles said:


> I tried to come up with a good reply but decided I'd just end up getting myself in trouble :>



 Sometimes silence is golden.


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## Migrant13 (Apr 18, 2015)

Looking good. Thanks for sharing the progress.


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## silence882 (Mar 19, 2016)

25 month update!

I think I've finally dialed in my fertilizer regimen so the leaves have greened up nicely. Although I think I lost about 6 months of growing time to a lack of fertilizer in 2015. The colors in the photos below are a little wonky since my grow lights don't put out a clean white.

The tigrinums are slow but they're growing and healthy.




The vejvarutianums are slow too, but there's 1 odd plant in the bunch that's especially vigorous.




The 4 emersoniis I've kept are doing well, although they're not liking the new fertilizer regime. I've just put them back on pure water.




The humboldtiis are slow, but they're growing well and the leaves are good and thick.





Here are the two compots from Chuck Acker 27 months ago.

The Phrag besseae flavums are growing nicely. They really like the new fertilizer.




I am not doing well at all with the Phrag. Evening Blaze. They have responded to the new fertilizer so I'm waiting to see what happens.





I got a flask of Phrag. Manzur la Aldea from Chuck 16 months ago. They're doing better on the new fertilizer too.





The tranlienianums from Than are still slow at 27 months, but have nice thick leaves.





I got a flask of Phrag. Glen Decker (Jason Fischer x kovachii) from Orchid Zone 8 months ago. They were deflasked pretty small (as John recommends), but I haven't lost any and they're growing well. The flask was packed and I got a lot of good seedlings out of it. However, the little ones in the top right aren't really growing and are probably gonna get tossed.





Lastly, I got a flask of Paph. parishii from Sam at Orchid Inn 6 months ago. I am quite happy with how vigorous they are as I have always heard that parishii is glacial.




--Stephen


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## Justin (Mar 19, 2016)

Looking really good!!


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## JAB (Mar 19, 2016)

Its all a learning experience right!? Look good to me!


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## troy (Mar 19, 2016)

Awesome!! Talk to glen about yur phrags and culture, I just talked to him the other day, he's got info!!! Don't throw away yur runts, I'd take them please  thanks!! You're parishiis look great!!!


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## ehanes7612 (Mar 19, 2016)

it's irrelevant that you may not have made a best decision


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## Ozpaph (Mar 19, 2016)

they look pretty happy


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## Bjorn (Mar 20, 2016)

Looks healthy but a bit on the small side after 24 monthshow big are the pots? I am also a bit confused about the lack of moss and algae. After 24 months it should be quite green in those pots unless you add either too high levels of fertiliser or some other ingredient like physan. My advice would be to be careful with the fertiliser and avoid physan etc. And do water, many people are so afraid of rot that they more or less desiccate their paphs.


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## Hamlet (Mar 20, 2016)

They look great! I wanted to get a tigrinum flask from then, but they were sold out.


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## Bjorn (Mar 20, 2016)

Hamlet said:


> They look great! I wanted to get a tigrinum flask from then, but they were sold out.



Yes? I get two flasks from them now.


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## NYEric (Mar 20, 2016)

Thanks for the update. Those Glen Deckers should get tossed to me.


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## Hamlet (Mar 20, 2016)

Bjorn said:


> Yes? I get two flasks from them now.



Ha! Good look with them!  They said they have more in the lab but they still need some time.


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## Bjorn (Mar 21, 2016)

Have good experience With their tigrinum, got a flask with 5 some years back (fall 2013). All survived and are now NBS


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## silence882 (Mar 22, 2016)

Thanks, everyone!

These guys are smaller than I would like after 2 years, but I've definitely made some culture mistakes that have slowed them down. I also suspect I haven't been giving them enough light, but I've been scared to up it and risk bleaching the leaves. I've got a light meter on the way so there'll be more experimenting in the near future.


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## garysan (Mar 22, 2016)

silence882 said:


> 25 month update!
> 
> I think I've finally dialed in my fertilizer regimen so the leaves have greened up nicely.



Stephen, just out of interest, what did you dial it down/up to?


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## silence882 (Mar 22, 2016)

garysan said:


> Stephen, just out of interest, what did you dial it down/up to?



I was giving them MSU at 1/4 tsp/gallon every few weeks. I've switched to Grow More 20-20-20 at 1/2 tsp/gallon with every watering. I like that Grow More has N as nitrate, urea, and ammonium whereas MSU was all nitrate. I saw a distinct greening of the leaves after a few waterings with the Grow More.


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## gego (Mar 23, 2016)

Wow!!!! 1/2 tsp/gal every watering is pretty brave of you. I'm glad the results are positive for you. Do you notice any dark brown tips on the older leaves?
Are most of the plants keeping their older leaves well?


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## orchidman77 (Mar 23, 2016)

Sign me up for a few of those humboldtiis if you are not planning on keeping all of them! I've been looking for a few...

Babies all look great! I love growing from flask. 

David


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## garysan (Mar 24, 2016)

silence882 said:


> I was giving them MSU at 1/4 tsp/gallon every few weeks. I've switched to Grow More 20-20-20 at 1/2 tsp/gallon with every watering. I like that Grow More has N as nitrate, urea, and ammonium whereas MSU was all nitrate. I saw a distinct greening of the leaves after a few waterings with the Grow More.



Aren't you supposed to use the MSU formulae at every watering rather than every few weeks though?


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## silence882 (Mar 24, 2016)

My light meter arrived and my plants were around 5-600 fc of light. So my new idea is to lower the lights to bring the levels up closer to 1,000. Hopefully this'll speed my plants along.





garysan said:


> Aren't you supposed to use the MSU formulae at every watering rather than every few weeks though?



I was doing that for a while, but the plants seemed stressed so I dialed it back.



orchidman77 said:


> Sign me up for a few of those humboldtiis if you are not planning on keeping all of them! I've been looking for a few...
> 
> Babies all look great! I love growing from flask.
> 
> David



I'll keep this in mind if I can ever get them to grow...



gego said:


> Wow!!!! 1/2 tsp/gal every watering is pretty brave of you. I'm glad the results are positive for you. Do you notice any dark brown tips on the older leaves?
> Are most of the plants keeping their older leaves well?



I haven't noticed any leaf tip burn or lower leaf die back. I'll probably reduce the fertilizer to 1/4 tsp/gal in the near future.


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## silence882 (Jul 6, 2016)

Here are the 9 besseae flavums from Chuck that I kept. 5 are in spike. I am hoping the rest spike soon.







All of my plants are doing SO much better since I moved the lights closer several months ago. I was really depriving them before that.

--Stephen


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## orchidman77 (Jul 6, 2016)

Yay - I probably have the same cross! Mine are younger... Chuck's Choice x Germany #2?

Can't wait for updated pics!!!!!

And those humboldtii's :evil: :rollhappy:

David


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## NYEric (Jul 6, 2016)

Wow! Good growing. Maybe I should take mine out of the water.


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## silence882 (Jul 6, 2016)

orchidman77 said:


> Yay - I probably have the same cross! Mine are younger... Chuck's Choice x Germany #2?
> 
> Can't wait for updated pics!!!!!
> 
> ...



Yup, same cross. These guys are 2.5 years old, although I lost growing time to a lack of light.

The humboldtiis have responded the best of any of my seedlings to the increased light level. They'll be repotted in the fall. I have 19 seedlings that are growing well (I dumped the runts long ago). I'll be keeping 6-8 for myself. What to do with the rest...


rest...




NYEric said:


> Wow! Good growing. Maybe I should take mine out of the water.



I try to water my phrags every day, but that's only because I have a small collection. Also, I like leaving the drain holes open to let air circulate. That is my completely untested theory anyway.


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## Ozpaph (Jul 6, 2016)

That's great growing!


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## orchidman77 (Jul 6, 2016)

silence882 said:


> Yup, same cross. These guys are 2.5 years old, although I lost growing time to a lack of light.
> 
> The humboldtiis have responded the best of any of my seedlings to the increased light level. They'll be repotted in the fall. I have 19 seedlings that are growing well (I dumped the runts long ago). I'll be keeping 6-8 for myself. What to do with the rest...



ME ME ME ME ME I'll take a whole compot off your hands!!! :rollhappy: No repot necessary...humboldtii is one of my very favorite species...

btw, the seedlings look beautiful. Job well done!

David


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## Bjorn (Jul 7, 2016)

And what happened with the tigers???
The bessaes look splendid btw.


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## silence882 (Jul 7, 2016)

Bjorn said:


> And what happened with the tigers???
> The bessaes look splendid btw.



The tigrinums have also really appreciated the increased light. They've grown more in the past 3 months than in the year before that.


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## Bjorn (Jul 8, 2016)

about time to pot up? Looks good!


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## Ozpaph (Jul 8, 2016)

You are very good at this!


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## silence882 (Jul 8, 2016)

Bjorn said:


> about time to pot up? Looks good!



I like to wait until I have a lot to repot at once. I believe 2 of the 5 might be ready for their own 2" pots. Hopefully I'll do it in September.


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