# Flower Safe Spray for Scales???



## Happypaphy7 (Nov 16, 2015)

I wonder if there is such a thing?

I have found that my Paph.(malipoense x Fanaticum) has soft brown scale.
I have noticed that tiny little red brown specks on the bud last month.
I thought they were dust, but they were moving slowly.
I took a toothpick and carefully removed them. Well, I killed them by squeezing. 
Then, I had this bad feeling and checked the underside of the leaves.
Thank goodness the leaf bottoms are very dark on this plant and I could easily see the same little critters.

I would check every morning, and each time I could find a few, both on the bud and the underside of at least one leaf.
I could not see any on the spike itself, so I was wondering how the heck those little things made it up to the bud. They couldn't have jumped. 

Then, a few days later ( I don't know why I did this sooner) I checked the plant more aggressively. I pulled each leaf to see what might be hiding in the hidden crevise. Well, good thing I did because I found soft brown scale. Two. I dislodged it with the toothpick and killed it.
I checked the inside of the terminal leaf (?) (the little leaf that sometimes develop along with the spike). Well, there were about three!!!
This was difficult due to the color of the leaf and light coming through. 
I had to check again at night under light bulb to see better.

Then I checked the side of the bract that was housing the bud itself.
This was possible because the bud was big enough that there was just enough space that I could check inside. 
Well, there were at least four. I could not see if there were more, so I just inserted the toothpick inside the bract and carefully scraped off the entire thing on the inside. 
I managed to not to break off the bud, which would have been quite upsetting.

So the scales must have gotten in there months ago when the spike was just emerging and grew into adults inside the bract.
I'm surprised the bud was not killed.

Now, I still check the plant every morning and I still see the crawlers. Not as many. One or two, but they are there. 
I am rather puzzled because I can't really spray chemicals on the bud since doing so will blast the bud most likely.

I really want to see the flower to decide whether or not I keep the plant.
I have two of the same, and this one is of smaller plant size and the bud is actually developing fine. 
The other one is bigger and the bud looks like a "ghost" to me. It might still develop further but will see.


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## trdyl (Nov 16, 2015)

I like spraying the tops of the plants with isopropyl alcohol. The alcohol can case the flower color to run. It would be a good idea to dip the pots in a combination insecticide and miticide. I use Triazicide for that.


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## Migrant13 (Nov 16, 2015)

Not sure such a thing exists. Can try isopropanol on a Qtip to get into the crevices and to try and spare the developing spike. You can gently wipe the underside of the leaves with isopropanol soaked cotton balls too. But you have to keep after it in case there are eggs that have not yet hatched. Most of the time you will lose the flower bud if you treat more aggressively with a spray.


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## Bob in Albany N.Y. (Nov 16, 2015)

Have you considered using horticultural oil at 1 tablespoon per gallon. You might have to keep after it, but the oil shouldn't kill the bud.


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## abax (Nov 16, 2015)

Yeah, what Bob said. See if you can find Sunspray Ultrafine Horticultural Oil. Good stuff. An Orthene 97%
drench would be better and you don't have to touch the
buds, but it does stink to high heaven for a day or two.


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## Happypaphy7 (Nov 17, 2015)

Thank you, everyone for the input.

I am against using alcohol or oil as I have had horrible experience with them on my plants.
Alcohol doesn't seem to hurt the plant, but it definitely killed buds.
I've never used horticultural oil dilution, but I have used store-bought (ready-to-use) spray whose main ingredient was neem oil (is it much different than horticultural oil??) and the plant reaction was rather severe. 

I really want to see the flower on this one so I don't have to wait a whole another year to see the flower to decide whether or not I want to keep the plant. Space is precious and the pressure (and anxiety) is high. lol


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## SlipperFan (Nov 17, 2015)

I don't think orthene will hurt the buds. Another possibility is imidicloprid. I have sprayed it on flowers and buds without harmful effect on them. These are both strong chemicals that are systemic. So you may want to spray outdoors or in a highly ventilated area.


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## abax (Nov 17, 2015)

If you use Orthene 97% wettable powder, you don't have
to spray at all. Just drench the media at one teaspoon per
gallon. I wouldn't touch my plants with neem oil...horticultural
oil as mentioned above is entirely different.


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## Happypaphy7 (Nov 18, 2015)

If it smells that bad, I cannot use it because I live in a small apartment.

I should look into what horticultural oil is then.


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## SlipperFan (Nov 18, 2015)

Imidicloprid can be used as a drench, also. but Happypaphy wanted something to put directly on the buds/flowers. 

Q-tips dipped in alcohol, picking off the scale individually is pretty save. Just don't leave alcohol setting on the bud/flowers.

I, too, would be concerned about any oil left on the buds or flowers. Maybe Q-tips as per alcohol above would be safe.


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## gonewild (Nov 18, 2015)

I spray a Pyrethrin on Phals and it does not harm flowers or buds.


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## Happypaphy7 (Nov 19, 2015)

True.
I had this spray with pyrethrin in it, and it did kill thrips in the past without affecting flowers, which was the main part I had to spray.
The thing is it's a contact killer and I doubt scales with its armour, will be affected.

This is such a pain!!!
For now, I'm just checking the plant daily and hand pick any crawlers big enough to be seen or any hidden adults (I thought I got them all, but there could be some hiding in the deep crevice where I cannot reach and see without damaging the leaves).
I only wish the flower spike grew much faster, so I could be done with this sooner. Oh, well...

That, and I'm paranoid about these little crawlers crawling all over and land on other plants. That would be a real nightmare.


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## gonewild (Nov 19, 2015)

Happypaphy7 said:


> True.
> I had this spray with pyrethrin in it, and it did kill thrips in the past without affecting flowers, which was the main part I had to spray.
> The thing is it's a contact killer and I doubt scales with its armour, will be affected.



Certain synthetic forms of Pyrethrins function as systemic as well as contact and do kill scale.
You just need the right one.


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## Happypaphy7 (Nov 19, 2015)

Do you know a name of such product?


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## gonewild (Nov 19, 2015)

Happypaphy7 said:


> Do you know a name of such product?



No not off hand. I used one last year but it was a Spanish label.
I'll look to see if I still have it to see the formula.


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