# Phrag besseae in situ photos



## Kyle (Nov 7, 2006)

As promised, here are pictures of two different besseae sites I have been to in Ecuador. the first one is the Paute site. The Paute River runs through Ecuador, these plants are found on the hill/cliffs about the river. These pictures were taken about a month ago.






















These pictures were taken at the Chigllinda site (pronounced Chew-in-da). This site is quite different from the Paute site. It is much wetter and not as overgrown. Water is dripping constantly from the cliffs. Very wet. These pictures were taken one year ago.





















The shape of the flowers are a bit different, with the paute plants having better shape.

These final two pictures show that in the wild, you can find plants that arn't stoloniferous. This plants has two growths and there is no stolon.











Tom Kalina believes that in this population there has been some natural hybridizing with dalessandroi. I have not been back to the site since him and I discussed the possibility, so I can't say for sure.

Kyle


----------



## Kyle (Nov 7, 2006)

This picture shows how close to the road the sites are.






Kyle


----------



## Mahon (Nov 8, 2006)

Kyle,

Great pictures! The plants from Chigllinda site look as if they are more of a _Phrag. dalessandroi_ then a _Phrag. besseae_... I may agree with Kalina, it's a possibility that those plants at the Chigllinda site are _Phrag. besseae_ x _Phrag. dalessandroi_...

The last picture is too early to tell if it is stoloniferous or not... the growth is not developed enough... if it's from the Chigllinda site, possibility is Kalina's idea... that really red, immediately ascending staminodial shield and slightly rounded petal tips are quite typical for _Phrag. dalessandroi_... 

Thanks for sharing the photos! 

-Pat


----------



## paphjoint (Nov 8, 2006)

Excellent pictures thanks !!


----------



## Stephan (Nov 8, 2006)

Thanks Kyle - 

Very beautiful to see - thanks for sharing.

Cheers
Stephan


----------



## Marco (Nov 8, 2006)

Great photos. Thanks Kyle


----------



## SlipperFan (Nov 8, 2006)

Interesting. Thanks, Kyle.


----------



## Rick (Nov 8, 2006)

Very cool shots.
You can see why these guys would like to climb out of a pot, and crawl up the ciff.

Are there any other red blooming species nearby for besseae to con pollinators from.


----------



## Heather (Nov 8, 2006)

Rick said:


> Very cool shots.
> You can see why these guys would like to climb out of a pot, and crawl up the ciff.



Forget the water feature. I need a cliff feature!


----------



## ORG (Nov 8, 2006)

Dear Kyle,
great pictures.
It is really time to visit Ecuador

Best greetings

Olaf


----------



## Park Bear (Nov 9, 2006)

great photos!!!


----------



## NYEric (Nov 14, 2006)

Thank you for sharing the photos.


----------



## John M (Nov 14, 2006)

Fantastic photos Kyle! It's so nice to see the plants in-situ. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Barbara (Nov 26, 2006)

Really wonderful to them growing in their natural habitat. Thank You.


----------



## phrag guy (Nov 27, 2006)

That is great Kyke.


----------



## bwester (Nov 27, 2006)

Road Trip!!!!!


----------



## Lars Pedersen (Apr 18, 2010)

Hi all

I am planing a trip to Ecuador. Mainly to visit "our daughter" in the SOS childrens village in Ricaurte.

But when we are there, we also want to look around.

Specialy I would like to see besseae and dalessandroi in situ.

Do they have a peak flowering period ?

It would be alot more fun if they are in flower 

kind regards
Lars


----------



## Phrag-Plus (Apr 18, 2010)

Very nice pictures, always interesting to see the plants in their habitats.


----------



## Shiva (Apr 18, 2010)

Thanks for the pictures. Very informative.


----------



## biothanasis (Apr 18, 2010)

Great in situ pictures!!! Thank you very much!!


----------



## Kyle (Apr 18, 2010)

Lars Pedersen said:


> Hi all
> 
> Specialy I would like to see besseae and dalessandroi in situ.
> 
> ...



Besseae is easy to see in situ, dalessandroi is harder. I have not seen dalessandroi. Contact Ecuagenera, they can arrange a tour for you. 1 day, one week, one month. What ever you want.


----------



## Hera (Apr 18, 2010)

I am curious to know how big the clumps get in the wild. It appeared that the plants photographed were 2-3 clump plants. How old is the avarage plant in the wild, are they short lived, or do they get to be large healthy clumps that are several years old. Does anybody know?


----------



## e-spice (Apr 18, 2010)

Thanks for posting those Kyle!

e-spice


----------



## Lars Pedersen (Apr 18, 2010)

Hi Kyle

I have a an arrangement with Mundiflora.... dalessandroi grow practicaly in their backyard. 

They are the ones I bought dalessandroi from.

I have planed for one week in a 4 wheel drive with them.... Ecuador is not very big 
best
Lars


----------



## Berrak (Apr 18, 2010)

Lovely photos Kyle - thanks a lot.

Lycky you Lars that will travel over there.


----------



## cnycharles (Apr 18, 2010)

amazing the interesting posts that you can dig up from way back... and also thanks for posting these pictures


----------



## NYEric (Apr 18, 2010)

Lars Pedersen said:


> I have planed for one week in a 4 wheel drive with them.... Ecuador is not very big
> best
> Lars


When are you planning on going?


----------



## Lars Pedersen (Apr 19, 2010)

Hi

I plan to go in aughtum.... late october I hope.

Will that be a good time to see them flower in the wild ?


Lars


----------



## NYEric (Apr 19, 2010)

I think I was told that that's the worst time to go.














Just kidding! oke: I heard February and October are the best times to go; not too rainy and lots in bloom. Maybe we'll meet there.


----------



## Chuck (Apr 21, 2010)

A group of us just got back from Ecuador. The besseaes are is bloom now.


----------



## tomkalina (Apr 22, 2010)

Actually, If you're interested in seeing Phrag. besseae in bloom in Ecuador, autumn or spring are the times to go (see photo). Our trips to besseae habitat, are scheduled for either early May or early November. Also would recommend contacting Ecuagenera for a tour; it's the best way to go, and the guides are very helpful - especially if you've never gone before and the tours are (relatively) reasonably priced.


Thanks, Tom


----------



## NYEric (Apr 22, 2010)

Was it really so cool that you had to wear all those clothes?


----------



## Lars Pedersen (Apr 22, 2010)

Hi Tom

You recomend Eucagenera... what can they offer, and what is their price ?


Lars


----------



## Kyle (Apr 22, 2010)

yes.


----------



## Chuck (Apr 22, 2010)

The tour we just returned from was hosted by Ecuagenera. They did a great job.


----------



## cnycharles (Apr 22, 2010)

NYEric said:


> Was it really so cool that you had to wear all those clothes?



that was to keep off all the mosquitos and leeches


----------



## tomkalina (Apr 23, 2010)

No leeches or mosquitos at this elevation (Thank God!). The cool and wet conditions that are typical of P. besseae habitat during rainy season, along with the vigorous air movement, dictated my clothing selection for that day.(See photo of P. d'alessandroi in situ). The vest was a definite requirement because of the need for extra pockets to carry a thermometer, conductivity meter, pH meter,camera, compact binoculars, energy bars, etc. As far as arranging a tour with Ecuagenera, you can contact the owner, Pepe Portilla, at: [email protected], for prices and availability.

Thanks, Tom


----------



## Lars Pedersen (Apr 23, 2010)

Hi Tom

I will contact them, and compare with the other offer I got ´

How about the readings from all your instruments..... can we have them ?

kind regards from Denmark..... where the sun is finaly returning after a long winter :clap:

Lars


----------



## NYEric (Apr 23, 2010)

I hate leeches! :fight:

Tom, is it possible to get permits to bring plants [from nursery] and wild collected plants back?


----------



## tomkalina (Apr 23, 2010)

Hey Eric,

As far as I know, collection of any wild orchids in Ecuador is not allowed; especially CITES 1 material (I.E. Phrags.) It's a "look but don't touch" scenario when you're out in the habitat, and illegal collection carries with it the risk of serious penalties. Kyle has a lot of experience working and exploring in Ecuador, so maybe he can enlighten us further. 

Ecuagenera has fairly extensive greenhouses in Gualaceo and El Pangui, and it should be possible to select plants (including CITES 1 material) for later shipment, but not to hand-carry back. The reason for this is that Ecuagenera has to get CITES export permits and phytosanitary certificates before the plants can leave Ecuador, and this can take 6 weeks. What normally happens is Ecuagenera will bring the plants you've selected with them to one of the many U.S. shows they attend and deliver them either in person, or ship them on to a U.S. address from the show location.


Thanks, Tom


----------



## NYEric (Apr 23, 2010)

tomkalina said:


> Hey Eric,
> 
> .. carries with it the risk of serious penalties.


I would never do anything to receive penalties. :noangel:

Thanx for the info. i will look at their catalog before I go and hopefully arrange to bring stuff back by pre-ordering.


----------



## gonewild (Apr 23, 2010)

Unless the rules have changed it is not legal to import any wild collected plant into the USA. Not just orchids of CITES plants but any wild plant. Plants must be nursery grown and not old.
Has this rule changed?


----------



## Lars Pedersen (Apr 24, 2010)

Hi

Wild collected is a no go.

But both Eucagenera and Mundiflora goes to Europe, and I presume to the US also, several times a year to orchidshows.

I have preordered plants from them a couple of times, and it works fine.
They do all the paperwork with Cites and health certificates.

Next time they are in France, they will send me a besseae, and a dalessandroi.

I guess when I go and visit them, I will select and pay some plants, an then next time they go to Europe they will bring and send them.


Lars


----------



## NYEric (Apr 24, 2010)

FYI, I got a nice Phrag Hanne Popow from them.


----------



## likespaphs (Apr 24, 2010)

gonewild said:


> Unless the rules have changed it is not legal to import any wild collected plant into the USA. Not just orchids of CITES plants but any wild plant. Plants must be nursery grown and not old.
> Has this rule changed?




are you confusing importing wild collected plants vs importing a plant in soil? it is not permitted to bring in a plant in soil but i'm pretty sure it is and always has been permitted to bring in wild collected plants when the appropriate paperwork is present.
then again, i could be mistaken.


----------



## Kyle (Apr 24, 2010)

I could be mistaken, but my understanding is that it is next to impossible to export a wild collected appendix I plant. Only artificially propagated plants. However, division is considered artificial propagation. Still, Ecuagenera have plenty of lab propagated phrags, there is no need to worry about wild plants. Plus they will not tolerate wild collecting.

It may be possible to exprt some wild plant species. I've heard of collecting trips for gesnariads and anthiriums. Both of those plant groups reproduce faster than orchids. Anthriums are collected as cuttings.

About going to Ecuador and leaving with you plants, its possible. If you stay long enough. It takes a few weeks to get the right permits. Again the CITES is the problem. The phyto permit takes a couple of hours, but the CITES takes a few weeks. If you visit the nursery and pick your plants then explore the country for a few weeks, you can leave with your plants. Otherwise, Ecuagenera can mail them when they do a show in your country.

If you do select plants in the nursery to be mailed at a later date. Write your name on a new leaf in giant letters. This will make sure you end up with the exact plant you selected. Its a big nursery with lots of people working, so mixups happen. Also it may be a couple of months until you get your plants, so they may not be exactly as you remember them, so your name on the leaf will prove its the plant you selected. Doesn't look to good, but provides peace of mind.

To my knowledge, mundiflora has never been to the USA. I don't know if any of them have entrance visas. Mario did, but he may not have the time to do shows. Also, mundiflora may not have english speaking guides, however the guides they do provide have an excellent knowledge of the country and orchid species. You'll see lots of plants with both companies. You can't go wrong.

Kyle


----------



## likespaphs (Apr 24, 2010)

right. i was talking about plants not included in cites


----------



## gonewild (Apr 24, 2010)

likespaphs said:


> are you confusing importing wild collected plants vs importing a plant in soil? it is not permitted to bring in a plant in soil but i'm pretty sure it is and always has been permitted to bring in wild collected plants when the appropriate paperwork is present.
> then again, i could be mistaken.



No I'm not confusing the soil issue. For some reason I had it in my head that somewhere in the regulations it stated that plants entering the USA had to be nursery grown and not wild collected. I just reread some of the rules and perhaps I was thinking of the "Size and Age" restrictions. By following those rules it would be difficult to import wild plants as they would likely not comply with the age requirements for most plants which are:

• 2 years old if grown from seeds or
cutting
• 1 year old if produced by layering
• 2 years old if produced by budding or
grafting

On the flip side I doubt that any country would issue Phytosanitary cert on wild collected plants. I know Peru does not. Even if they did the USDA would likely find some fungi spore or some reason to deny the shipment for sanitary reasons. 
I think I will call APHIS and find out for sure if wild plants are allowed entry.


----------



## NYEric (Apr 24, 2010)

I remember Ron posting something about plants he collected.


----------

