# How long



## orchideya (Jun 24, 2014)

does it take for Phragmipediums to get from flask to blooming size?


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## NYEric (Jun 24, 2014)

Which Phrags?


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## Clark (Jun 24, 2014)

From hobby flask(6-8plants) under less than ideal conditions:
longifolium- 5.25 yr.
pearcei- 4.5 yr.
boisserianum- I'm thinking 6.25 yr.

YMMV


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## ehanes7612 (Jun 24, 2014)

from deflasking...besseae and hybrids now only take two/three years, kovachii hybrids can take anywhere from 2 to forever depending on the cross and parents used... kovachii, I have heard takes about 7 years but usually longer..mine are 4 inch seedlings and have been around for 2 years


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## orchideya (Jun 24, 2014)

Ok, sorry, I should have known that they all are different.
I have pre-ordered two flasks from Ecuagenera to pick up in October:
Phrag. dalessandroi ´Ivan` x ´Red` and Phrag. warszewiczianum
How about those? I am just wondering if I will see the blooms in this life.
Also if anybody has tips about phrag deflasking - I would appreciate it.
They will be my first phrag flasks.
Thanks.


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## NYEric (Jun 24, 2014)

At least 3 years, if you get it right.


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## orchideya (Jun 25, 2014)

Really? 3 years is not that bad. 
Now I just need to find out how to "get it right".
My besseae and few hybrids are doing great in the tank, lots of new roots and nice leaves growth. I hope this environment will be good for seedlings too.


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## Silvan (Jun 25, 2014)

Good luck with your flasks. Last time I ordered flasks of phragmipediums from
ecuagenera they were really tiny as if they would have needed a replate. I don't
have experience in that so I had to deflask them right away as the medium was
really liquid and had splashed all over the plants... bad experience. Lost most
of them... RIP : longifolium album, Emma Decker, wallisii 4N 
Someone told me that the wallisii 4N might have taken ten years to get to blooming size
and maybe a bit less with some plants in the flasks that are more vigourous than others.
So, I don't really care about loosing that one. 
Not sure about the tank though, I had put my seedlings in a dome and they didn't like the stale 
condition very much.


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## orchideya (Jun 25, 2014)

That's too bad. Sorry about your losses.
Warszewiczianum should be quite similar to wallisii, right? So I am in for another long wait (I deflasked paph. sanderianum last year, it is sloooowwwww).
How did you loose them - to rot or something else?
Also, if you don't mind sharing, what do you use as a medium for phrag deflasklings?


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## orchideya (Jun 25, 2014)

Silvan said:


> Not sure about the tank though, I had put my seedlings in a dome and they didn't like the stale
> condition very much.



My tanks have small fans running on schedule every couple hours for 30 minutes, so there is no stale in there. 

But I notice sometimes the drops of water on the leaves of my adult phrags, have no idea how they get it - I never water the leaves. I think it is from the humid air and always try to wipe it when I see those drops.


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## eteson (Jun 25, 2014)

There is a confusion with warszewiczianum. I guess that your warszewiczianum is wallisii??.... but some people name warszewiczianum to the humboldtii (or popowii).

-*warszewiczianum* (wallisii) is a slow grower under my conditions and can take about 4-5 years to reach blooming size (I deflask it when reach 4 inch). This species do not tolerate too much water... keep it in moist but not wet.

-warszewiczianum (*humboldtii* / popowii) grows faster here and reach blooming size in 3-4 years (I also deflask it when the seedlings reach 4 inch). Keep it moist but not wet.

-About the *dalessandroi* I do not have experience with this species but besseae can be quite fast if well grown, as eric says in three years should be BS. This can be grown wet.

Be sure to get good flasks because if the plants are too small those times can easily be doubled. As Silvan says it is common to get flasks that would need a new replate...


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## Silvan (Jun 25, 2014)

As long as the drops on the leaves aren't brownish in color your plants
are fine. I think it's sap. Some phrags does it others don't. 
The cross you're getting seems to hold great promises ..
a darker ruby slippers.. If yours make it, I still have some very interesting
crosses left to trade  
( Hanne Popow x k, lindleyanum x k, k x caricinum) 
I use a basic mix of bark, perlite, sphagnum moss ( I treat the moss with physan) in hydro net pots. I put
3-4 plants per pots. It's safer. Rot is contagious. I water by filling a little 
saucer under the pot. When very small it's not really good idea to water from the top ( I made all possible mistakes..lol)
Different reasons why my seedlings didn't make it. Some were still in the
protocorm stage and never grew up into a "plant". Others turned yellow for
no reason. I lost an entire flask because I waited too long before deflasking ( I wanted to grow them up a bit before deflasking them..bad idea. They don't like
the trip from Ecuador to Canada and they have to get out of their flask). Oh and
kill some by letting the media dry too much.. I think that's all... oh, and change
de media after about six months.. 

I thought warsc was wallisii and warsz was popowii ?


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## eteson (Jun 25, 2014)

Those Eric Young should be blooming in 2 years!


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## Silvan (Jun 25, 2014)

Do you keep the "puck" when you repot ? And do you have a distributor for you flasks or you only sell locally ?
Healthy seedlings by the way. I think I've never seen so many roots from a phrags flask.  Congrats.


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## eteson (Jun 25, 2014)

Silvan said:


> Do you keep the "puck" when you repot ? And do you have a distributor for you flasks or you only sell locally ?
> Healthy seedlings by the way. I think I've never seen so many roots from a phrags flask.  Congrats.




Thanks for your kind comment. We have been working in Phrag media formulations for a while and I think that we are close to our objective.
I try to individualize the seedlings... but sometimes it is not easy without breaking the roots. Some of the plants are large enough to be transfered directly to a individual pot.

In 2015 I am going to be able to sell plants and flasks in the USA. Hope so!


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## NYEric (Jun 25, 2014)

Adding ploidy to plants seems to increase the time to maturity. On the plus side you get fuller leaves and rounder flowers! 
Eli, put me on the list please!


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## abax (Jun 26, 2014)

Orchideya, you are a very brave person! I'd be scared to death to try
deflasking Phrags.


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## orchideya (Jun 26, 2014)

Thank you everybody for the advices, I am learning a lot here.

Those Eric Youngs look wonderful, I want on the list for flasks too, if they are ever available in Canada.

Angela, I am scared a bit. But I am easily encouraged, so since my paph seedlings are doing good, I thought, why not try phrags too.


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## Carkin (Jun 26, 2014)

I am looking forward to hearing how it goes for you! Maybe you will have some Phrag seedlings to sell in the future?


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## orchideya (Jun 26, 2014)

Sure, if they survive - I will share.


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## abax (Jun 26, 2014)

I'm sending you fast growth vibes and luck as well. Keep us informed please.

Why not, indeed!


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## Carkin (Jun 27, 2014)

orchideya said:


> Sure, if they survive - I will share.




We are "rooting for you"!!!!


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## orchideya (Jun 27, 2014)

Thank you guys for support! 
Can't wait for October to actually get those flasks...


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