# Phragmipedium kovachii as a houseplant



## LostInPeru (Jan 26, 2014)

After reading about the discovery of Phragmipedium kovachii on here and becoming fascinated by the intrigue and allure of this orchid I am thinking of purchasing one and was just wondering if I could run by you what I think it needs care wise?

So far I think I need to do the following.

Use expanded clay pellets/balls such as hydroton as the media. Provides good drainage and prevents root rot while maintaing moisture and providing a acid free ph neutral environment. Soak the expanded clay in distilled water for a week before use to get rid of any harsh chemicals used in the manufacturing process.

Only water with distilled water two to three times per week. Never let dry out.

Fertilize with half stength orchid fertilizer three times a week. Every three months use dolomite and epsom salts. Unsure quantities. I found liquid dolomite at my local Bunnings plantstore, would this be ok to use?

Give low levels of bright diffused light while plant is small and young, increasing to brighter full sun when plant is larger.

I live in the city of Brisbane in Australia, where it gets pretty hot in summer but night temperatures I think should be alright temperature wise. In summer the temperatures rise to 35 degrees celsius (95 degrees fahrenheight). We seem to get about a 10 degree celsius(50 degree fahrenheight) temperature difference between summer day time and night time temperatures. Is this ok? I read on here that they can tolerate warmer temperatures and as Lima is at sea level they survive their ok where they are grown slightly warmer.

Here are my maximum and minimum for summer. http://www.weatherzone.com.au/qld/brisbane/brisbane

Keep in a plastic pot and sit that inside a ceramic pot to keep the root system cool at all times.

I wanted to purchase a plant of wild origin( responsibly sourced the proper way of course) and saw a lot of very beautiful specimens that were of wild origin on this forum and then went looking for them in Australia.

I found a supplier here in Australia who sells flasks of PK, one plant per flask, and I was thinking of purchasing one plant from them. The type they sell is Phragmipedium kovachii 'Tupac Amaru' x 'Goliath'. I remember after seeing pictures of each of those individuals on here before discovering this 'cross' that they were two of the most beautiful and the thought of them being together in one plant is almost too much lol and I was lucky as this supplier only stocks this one particular type of PK and is the only place that I have found stocks PK in Australia. They assure me they are all responsibly sourced the correct way through the proper channels with all the legitimate paperwork and for me that is very important so I think I have really been lucky to come across this very responsible and ethical seller.

What are your thoughts? Am I on the right track. Any help would be great. I still have not purchased anything and am still undecided if I will. Thanks.


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## Rick (Jan 26, 2014)

The nutrient regime you are suggesting is very high. Especially since you are not specifying the composition of your choice of fertilizer.

Without targeting a specific composition, I wouldn't offer fertilizer at more than 1/10th strength multiple times per week. Or the 1/2 strength once every 2 months.

I have leaf tissue composition data from Alfredo Manrique and there is nothing significantly different comparing Phrag kovachii to epiphytic Epidendrum species. (I also have a couple of Pk's, and one grown from a small seedling).

They will grow very quickly with nutrient applications a tiny fraction of what you suggest, and may be burned out very quickly at higher rates without very heavy watering/flushing between nutrient applications.


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## Justin (Jan 26, 2014)

kovachii is supposed to be somewhat difficult to grow from flask. one plant per flask gives you bad odds...

i agree with Rick the feed rate you suggest sounds too strong and too frequent, but others here are more experienced with this species.


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## paphioboy (Jan 26, 2014)

I do not think PK will survive the hot summers in Australia. Even in a tropical country where I live where maximum temperatures 'only' reach 35 degrees Celsius, not many intermediate growers can flower here. My friend who grows many slippers says that PK requires a constant temperature of around 20-22 degrees C.


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## Rick (Jan 26, 2014)

paphioboy said:


> My friend who grows many slippers says that PK requires a constant temperature of around 20-22 degrees C.




Mine spend plenty of time around 29C in the summer.

As long as airflow and humidity is up, and water is not restricted, I don't think you need to keep them that cool.


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## LostInPeru (Jan 26, 2014)

I was uncertain about how often I should fertilize or how much. I had previously read somewhere by only giving them distilled water you leached nutrients out of the plant. Someone on another orchid forum also told me not to fertilize too much. Thanks for giving me the specific details.

So it seems PK can pretty much grow in nutrient deficient soils? In regards to the liquid dolomite and epsom salts in what quantities and frequency should I use those would you say after owning them?

It's always humid here in summer so hopefully I may have success. Am still on the fence about purchasing.

Have a copy of "The Scent of Scandal" on the way so will enjoy reading that before making a decision.


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## Rick (Jan 26, 2014)

LostInPeru said:


> So it seems PK can pretty much grow in nutrient deficient soils?



Most orchids grow in nutrient deficient environments. Also the high rainfall in most orchid habitats drastically dilutes the mineral environment around the roots.

What is the water quality of your regular drinking supply? Unless you live on rain distilled water, that's probably more than enough of Ca an Mg for your orchids. Just need a pinch of N and P after that.


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## Stone (Jan 26, 2014)

Hi LIP,
You will have no trouble with Brisbane temps. Its one of the best areas for orchid growing.
Who is selling the seedlings??


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## NYEric (Jan 26, 2014)

Welcome to the forum. First of all, there are no "responsible sourced" plants of wild origin, IRENA only gave permits for 5 plants each to the 3 nurseries that got permits, so you can be sure any plants for sale are not those. Anyway, Phrag kovachii can be very difficult to grow from seedlings. Whether or not the experience is a good one could well depend on the cost of the one in the flask. If you read 'Scent of a Scandal' you know that they are not warm growing plants. if you can keep it cool in the Summer then that is half the battle. 
Here's a link. 
http://www.orchid-care-tips.com/phragmipedium-kovachii.html
Plus, there are videos how Orchids Limited, one of the Big 4 sources for Pk in the USA, grows theirs.


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## LostInPeru (Jan 26, 2014)

Rick said:


> Most orchids grow in nutrient deficient environments. Also the high rainfall in most orchid habitats drastically dilutes the mineral environment around the roots.
> 
> What is the water quality of your regular drinking supply? Unless you live on rain distilled water, that's probably more than enough of Ca an Mg for your orchids. Just need a pinch of N and P after that.



Never thought of this. Thanks for the information, it's always helpful to know lots of detail about them. I'm unsure of the water quality here. Perhaps I am better to just water them with tapwater and flush it out once a month with distilled.



Stone said:


> Hi LIP,
> You will have no trouble with Brisbane temps. Its one of the best areas for orchid growing.
> Who is selling the seedlings??



This is reassuring to know. I found the supplier from doing a quick google search I guess it can only be good for their business if I mention them. The seller doesn't grow any PK, they only sell flasks. I already inquired about potted plants but they don't have any.

Here is their link. Edit.



NYEric said:


> Welcome to the forum. First of all, there are no "responsible sourced" plants of wild origin, IRENA only gave permits for 5 plants each to the 3 nurseries that got permits, so you can be sure any plants for sale are not those. Anyway, Phrag kovachii can be very difficult to grow from seedlings. Whether or not the experience is a good one could well depend on the cost of the one in the flask. If you read 'Scent of a Scandal' you know that they are not warm growing plants. if you can keep it cool in the Summer then that is half the battle.
> Here's a link.
> http://www.orchid-care-tips.com/phragmipedium-kovachii.html
> Plus, there are videos how Orchids Limited, one of the Big 4 sources for Pk in the USA, grows theirs.


 
Nice to be here. I like how their is a forum dedicated to slippers. Thanks for the link always fun to read new material on them. 

The cost of the flask is reasonable compared to the price of my old hobby with those Aibo robots lol. The seller has outstanding credentials and I am confident I have struck lucky coming accross them. Their is no way I would ever attempt importing plants myself from overseas- too expensive and complicated. In regards to the permits are you saying all other plants are illegal? I just assumed these are material purchased legally, and as the seller then owns those plants can choose to cultivate and sell them.Please advise.


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## Justin (Jan 26, 2014)

There's some extensive info on the Piping Rock site:

http://www.pipingrockorchids.com/assets/Glenn-Decker-Nov-2007-Article-AOS-PK.pdf

In ths article Glen advises using:

6 parts seedling or fine grade bark, 1 part horticultural charcoal, 1 part sponge rock or large perlite and ½ part of calcium chips or cracked oyster shells.


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## Stone (Jan 26, 2014)

LostInPeru said:


> > This is reassuring to know. I found the supplier from doing a quick google search I guess it can only be good for their business if I mention them. The seller doesn't grow any PK, they only sell flasks. I already inquired about potted plants but they don't have any.
> >
> > Here is their link. http://www.westernorchids.com.au/news.html
> 
> ...


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## NYEric (Jan 27, 2014)

LostInPeru said:


> The cost of the flask is reasonable compared to the price of my old hobby with those Aibo robots lol.
> Their is no way I would ever attempt importing plants myself from overseas- too expensive and complicated. In regards to the permits are you saying all other plants are illegal? I just assumed these are material purchased legally, and as the seller then owns those plants can choose to cultivate and sell them.Please advise.


What advice are you looking for? As also noted in the book, wild plants were being removed (and shipped overseas) prior to Mr. Kovach's adventure; and the plants were not legally named, therefore legally exported, until after that. There are plenty of plants from flask legally exported and some of them are blooming size. But remember, even some of the first flasks turned out not to be true kovachii. Your flasked plant could be legal if it has legal paperwork. My experience is that flasked and seedling kovachii are very difficult to grow and personally i would not try it again unless the seedlings have a 18cm+ leafspan.


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## LostInPeru (Jan 29, 2014)

Can't wait to read the book. I guess if it wasn't for Kovach making international headlines the black market trade probably would have continued and caused a lot of damage to the wild population and hobby insudustry with unidentifiable plants flooding the market before anyone got around to describing the orchid the proper way through the lengthy official channels. The supplier I am purchasing from has a picture on their website and it looks like a kovachii to me.

Would you say the liquid dolomite would be any good?

It's so hard to source the right stuff here at the local Bunnings(hardware/garden retailer).

I managed to find a Australian supplier on ebay selling the top grade hydroton expanded clay from europe, amazingly they sell it in small quantities, with the smallest being 500g which is perfect if you are only growing one plant. I also found powdered dolomite and the special clear orchid pots 150mm with high stacking feet to prevent root rot. It looks like I could acquire an orchid from the supplier and the rest from ebay including the hydroton, the pots, powdered dolomite from online all for under AUD$150.00. That cost includes the orchid fertilizer and epsom salts I can purchase locally. I am unsure what type of fertilizer to purchase.

I'm worried the expanded clay may not be alkaline enough. 

Thanks for your help and for sharing your detailed knowledge as it's invaluable to a newbie like me and much appreciated.


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## Justin (Jan 29, 2014)

i really need to get around to reading that book. 

Just FYI, Michael Kovach passed away in 2012.


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## LostInPeru (Jan 29, 2014)

I wasn't aware of this. That is really shocking and upsetting news. 

Can't believe Michael Kovach is dead, very sad. 

Thanks Justin for letting me know.


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## Stone (Jan 29, 2014)

LostInPeru said:


> > I'm worried the expanded clay may not be alkaline enough.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## LostInPeru (Jan 29, 2014)

Stone said:


> Be carefull with the use of dolomite and lime etc. Kovachii does not need extra Ca than any other orchid. Also alkaline pot conditions will quickly put a stop to growth. My Kovachii wet backwards when I added dolomite (obviously way too much!...my water is neutral) Better to start with an acid mix (not too much so) and add a little dolomite if the pH drops below 6. It has been found that most plants from alkaline habitats do equally well at pH 5.5 and 7 as long as Ca is AT LEAST double the Mg. The pH of Kovachii habitat is 7 or below (from memory) so neutral to sightly acid. The same with most ''limestone'' paphs.
> Your water probably has enough Calcium bicarbonate in it as is. If you use acidifying fertilizers like ammonium or Urea, you may need to add a very small amount of lime every 6 months or so.
> If you use a hydroponic type fert with mainly Calcium nitrate, your pH will remain as is or increase very slightly over time.
> PH is not so important when nutrients are constantly available as it is when they are deficient.



Thankyou for this! So I might just use my normal tap water and flush the plant once every month with distilled water. I found out about kovachii in 2011 and was amazed it still hadn't been 10 years since it's discovery.I did read extensively on the care of this plant and found out all this stuff and then forgot about it. I think my reason for deciding to take one on was because from what I read they seemed pretty easy to grow and low maintenance in the expanded clay. 

I'm thinking I may purchase more than one plant simply becuase the time they take to flower, which is about 5 years, and if I am going to invest a lot of time and effort into the care I may aswell have a few nice mature plants at the end of it instead of just one. Plus last time I inquired the supplier didn't have any so I am probably wise to purchase a few while their in stock.

Regarding hydroponic type ferts with mainly Calicium nitrate, can you recommend any? They seem like the perfect fert to use on kovachii. Everything I have found at Bunnings has urea which worried me. Sorry for all the questions, I don't normally ask so many questions but everyone here is so freindly and helpful it's hard not to. Hope I don't come across as too annoying lol.


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## Justin (Jan 29, 2014)

have you raised Phrags from flask before? kovachii is known to be difficult to establish from flask. 

I think you mentioned these are single plant flasks. To get a viable plant you will want probably about 20 of them as there is a very high probability many will die after deflasking.


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## SlipperFan (Jan 29, 2014)

I find this the best source for where _kovachii_ grows and how to grow it:
http://www.phragmipediumkovachii.com/


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## NYEric (Jan 29, 2014)

LostInPeru said:


> I wasn't aware of this. That is really shocking and upsetting news.
> 
> Can't believe Michael Kovach is dead, very sad.
> 
> Thanks Justin for letting me know.


So is Eric Christienson, and our fallen STF'r, Isais Rolando.


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## LostInPeru (Jan 30, 2014)

I've never raised anything from a flask. I've also never grown any type of orchid before. Is it really that tricky? Do you think I'm wasting my time pursuing this? I don't have a green house and would probably have to end up growing it as a houseplant and wonder if it would struggle under those conditions. If the success rate is going to be low I am probably better to save myself the stress of trying to grow one.


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## Justin (Jan 30, 2014)

Well you should always try new things! I'm just trying to help you set the right expectations 

Growing orchids from flask is something anyone can do, but it does take developing some skills. The seedlings have been kept in a sterile, climate-controlled environment for the first two years of their life, and they require special care to transition them into the harsh outside world. Among all the types of orchids out there, I would say deflasking kovachii is probably for the advanced grower. 

I recommend growing some other orchids in your home first, and try some inexpensive flasks once you get the basic culture down. Hybrids of orchid species are usually the easist to start with. In a few years you'll have that skill and kovachii will hopefully be more readily available and less expensive by then too.

If you live in an area with a orchid society, suggest stopping in at a meeting or two to talk with local growers about what grows well in your area. And we are always here to help with questions too!


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## ALToronto (Jan 30, 2014)

LostInPeru said:


> I've never raised anything from a flask. I've also never grown any type of orchid before. Is it really that tricky? Do you think I'm wasting my time pursuing this? I don't have a green house and would probably have to end up growing it as a houseplant and wonder if it would struggle under those conditions. If the success rate is going to be low I am probably better to save myself the stress of trying to grow one.



Phrags are not for beginner orchid growers, especially species phrags. Start with some easier orchids like hybrid cattleyas or oncidiums, and see if you can make them survive and thrive. Then get a hybrid phrag and see how you do with it. Otherwise, you're in for a lot of stress and probably disappointment.


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## LostInPeru (Jan 31, 2014)

Thnaks for the honest advice. I am unsure what to do lol. I really like PK and don't have the space or finances to own lots of orchids. I guess I could always buy one and see how it goes. 

Hearing about how all the main people in the kovachii story have passed away makes me realize the fragility of life and the sooner I purchase a kovachii the sooner it will be before I see it flower.

The book still has not arrived, but I know once I read it regardless of the difficulty of growing it I would like to own at least one as for me just owning one is a sense of adventure because of how recent the discovery is.

Also the remote and exotic aspect of the Amazonian cloud forests it came from just make it appealing to own and see one bloom in person, a sight unattainable by most.


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## NYEric (Jan 31, 2014)

Do yourself a favor, get a hybrid like Phrag. Eumelia Arias. It is the closest to the color of PK and only about 1/4 the price. Centro de Jardineria Manrique or Peruflora, in Peru, or Piping Rock Orchids or Orchids Limited in USA would be my recommended sources.BTW, have you read Orchid Fever yet!!


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## LostInPeru (Jan 31, 2014)

No I have not read that book yet. I also haven't read 'The Orchid Thief'. Maybe I should purchase those two books aswell although thought if I limited myself to the book on kovachii I wouldn't get consumed by orchids and want to own more species. 

Although I have seen the movie 'Adaptation' and the Midsomer Murders 'Orchis Fatalis' episode which fascinated me with the mystery that is orchids and propagated in me an interest for orchids. 

It's impossible to import plants here I think and I don't want to go to the hassle of that.

Although for me their is something mesmerizing about the idea of the wild PK that I don't get with other orchids. Perhaps it's the romance and poetry of the stroy behind it's discovery. Maybe it's partly to do with a fascination around how something so delicate could be found in such a harsh environment, clinging to the limestone cliffs for mere survival. Perhaps it is the elusive way in which it chooses to bloom under the cover of the wet seasons heavy downpours, as if trying to stay hidden in it's own little world. Maybe it has something to do with the pollinator being unknown. Why a bloom with no equal in the natural world is found in such a place that attempts to hide and mask it's beauty with the andean fog and rains is something that will always be of interest to me and for me make all the others pale in comparison.


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## NYEric (Jan 31, 2014)

Poetic waxing of a hopeless romantic. 
Best of luck, Eric.

BTW, besseae grows the same way. :wink:


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jan 31, 2014)

I would actually consider phrag hybrids to be very good beginner plants, especially the besseae crosses. Flasklings are difficult for even experienced growers, and Pk probably more difficult. I tried my hand at a deflasked Pk seedling...held on for a year or so, but never took off..then just declined and died.


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## LostInPeru (Jan 31, 2014)

Currently inquiring about them with the supplier to find out more and hopefully will make a decision about getting one soon.


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## LostInPeru (Feb 1, 2014)

Was perusing through ebay for kovachii stuff and came across a stamp that was issued by the Central African Republic in 2013 featuring the late Pope John Paul II alongside Phragmipedium kovachii.

Am I missing something here? Does anyone know how the Central African Republic, Pope John Paul II and PK fit together or have any significance together?

It just seems like the weirdest thing out. I can't understand why PK would feature on any other countries stamp other than that of Peru, and can only conclude it has something to do with Peru's heavily catholic traditions translating to the same traditions found in the Central African Republic and Kovach saying he thought it was gods will for him to find an orchid and name it after himself. 

Somebody needs to clear this up for me. Very confused right now.


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## LostInPeru (Feb 1, 2014)

Inquired with that supplier and now apparently their are none available and might not be 'for months or years' quoting the seller. Whatever that means. They stated it is not an orchid for beginners to deflask and grow.

I give up. Some people tell me it's an easy plant to grow others make out it's the hardest thing to do. Bye.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Feb 1, 2014)

These countries put out all kinds of stamps for things that are unrelated to them...they are for collectors, and mean a bit of income for the government.


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## NYEric (Feb 1, 2014)

LostInPeru said:


> Inquired with that supplier and now apparently their are none available and might not be 'for months or years' quoting the seller. Whatever that means. They stated it is not an orchid for beginners to deflask and grow.
> 
> I give up. Some people tell me it's an easy plant to grow others make out it's the hardest thing to do. Bye.



Um... I have been growing orchids for 15 years, and LOTS of Phrags. I have tried Pk and know that is is not an easy plant, especially from seedling size. Flasklet size is smaller. I am not sure Stone's comment about Brisbane weather should be construed to mean that Pk is easy. Maybe you should ask how he grows his Pk. You have received some tips from experienced growers. Do what you want to do. Bye.


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## LostInPeru (Feb 2, 2014)

Apologies for being rude, I'm just feeling frustrated thats all. The orchid scene in Australia really seems only for collectors as almost everything here that is not run of the mill is only sold online here and is flask.

It would be greatly appreciated if a moderator could remove the seller I am referring to websites link and name as quoted here as I am not sure what happened with them and don't like to publically mention anyone by name or business. I have removed any identifying remarks from my post.Thanks in advance.

I have found a second supplier here in Australia just through doing a simple google search and will see how I get along with them. 

INSIDER TIP: If your a newbie to the orchid scene like me but captivated by P. kovachii and thinking of purchasing P. kovachii don't mention this to the supplier.

Sorry and all the best of luck growing your plants.


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## emydura (Feb 2, 2014)

I've been growing slipper orchids for the best part of 15 years and I would consider kovachii to be beyond my ability as a grower. Given you have never grown an orchid, it would seem very ambitious to start off with this species. I know a few people who got flasks and quickly lost all of the seedlings. You have to remember it is much easier to grow large adult plants than it is to grow small seedlings just out of a flask. Even really easy growing species can be difficult to grow from flask. It takes a fair amount of experience and some heavy losses before you can deflask successfully. 

You would be better starting off with some Phrag hybrids and see how they go. These are generally quite easy to grow. If you have success then you can start thinking about the species. By that time kovachii should hopefully be a lot cheaper and large plants more readily available.


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## LostInPeru (Feb 2, 2014)

Thanks for the insight and advice. I just sold my last Aibo robot thinking I would buy a kovachii but now I won't bother and so have lost all my hobbies lol. I originally got into Aibo cause it was easy compared to trying to keep plants or animals but now find myself back at square one. 

I'm surprised you can't get them to grow in Canberra although with the winters their can see how they would struggle but if you are unable to grow kovachii with all your many years of experience then their is no point my trying. I was going to get a N lowii but think I will abandon that idea also. I'm starting to find I don't really enjoy any hobbies I've ever been involved with and don't know if it's just me or if their all a pain to be honest.


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## NYEric (Feb 2, 2014)

Sorry its so frustrating for you. Like I said, there are sources for blooming size hybrids that will give you a start.

Paph lowii? Very easy to grow. I don't know if you are near any of the growers that post here but some of the best Multis (plants that hold more than one bloom at the same time) are shown by people in Australia and you should be able to find a good source. Australia also has an endemic group of Denbrobium hybrids (kingianum and speciosum type) that are grown best there. There are also tons of native orchids there that if you can grow well you will be the envy of many people here, (Thelymitra comes easiest to mind). Good luck.


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## SlipperFan (Feb 2, 2014)

I agree with Eric. Start with something less frustrating, and then when you have built confidence that you can grow and flower it, go on to something a bit more difficult. Many of us still have difficulties with seedlings, even though we may have had good success with older plants. It is sort of like babies trying to run before they've learned how to stand.


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## Heather (Feb 3, 2014)

Definitely agree with Eric and Dot. There are a bazillion amazing plants out there to grow - Frankly, the kovachii story is all pretty messed up, IMO. D. kingianum is a pretty good story too. I love mine, and it takes a beating from me and doesn't skip a beat. Well, maybe a beat after I divide it, but the year after it puts on a fabulous and fragrant show. Well worth it to grow.


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## LostInPeru (Feb 4, 2014)

You won't believe it but I have found myself in the incredible position of being able to acquire a mythical Ghost Orchid Dendrophylax lindenii also known as Polyrrhiza lindenii.

Stumbled across a Ebay listing for a flask that had ended without a bid 24 hours earlier, and noticed the seller not only was incredibly located in Australia but also lived in the same city as me.

I have been in contact with the seller and I am able to meet up with them this weekend to collect the flask.

But my question is, would you say this plant was too difficult to grow for a first timer? This is an incredible opportunity and to find an orchid that is this rare in cultivation is almost like a dream.

I have read Keith Davis article about growing the ghost orchid so am well informed about it's care. What do you more experienced growers think? Should I purchase it and try to deflask it? It is very hard to source this orchid here in Australia.

Need adivce lol. What do you think I should do? Like the other supplier this one also does not actually grow the plant, only sells them in flask. Apparently the plant I am purchasing is still in the protocorm like stage but is said to be quite large and healthy and I was thinking perhaps if I found someone locally in Brisbane who did tissue culture I could get them to divide it for me and perhaps they could make it available for others to purchase.

Maybe this would be a good opportunity for me to get into selling Ghost Orchid as a small business? I could purchase all the appropriate materials to facilitate tissue culture I guess. What do you think?


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## ALToronto (Feb 4, 2014)

Have you wondered why an orchid as beautiful as the DL is rare in cultivation? It needs very controlled greenhouse conditions, and many experienced growers can't keep it alive and in bloom. 

Please, save yourself some money and a lot of stress and get some novelty phals and/or cattleya hybrids. And don't get flasks, get them in at least 5 cm pots. You're at the first stage of learning - you don't know what you don't know. At least get to the second stage before you try a flask - of phals or cattleya hybrids.


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## LostInPeru (Feb 4, 2014)

I guess I'm a daydreamer, can't help it.

Are those the experiences of growers living in North America and Europe? Here I have conditions much similar to Florida, and I have read most people fail because they don't water it enough, and when they do water it they water too much. I've also heard a lot of failures happen from incorrect light levels, either too much or too less. From reading about this orchid I think I have a good enough idea about it's needs.

But this isn't something you see for sale everyday and I have not been able to find this orchid anywhere else, even with the big tissue culture orchid businesses. The seller told me they are the only person in Australia to offer this plant for sale.

I'd be crazy to ignore this offer while I am also crazy accepting it.

It's hot and humid here, much like Florida, with the mild winters to match, so I am confident if I paid attention to it everyday that it would survive. 

Plan on keeping the flask inside until it forms into a proper plant, on a bright window that doesn't get direct sunlight. Then once it is ready to be deflasked I will grow it outside in a miniature shade house in shade at first and then move it to somewhere that gets morning sunlight, although will keep it in the shadehouse and minitor it everyday and water by misting a small amount once or twice a day. I will grow it on Spanish Moss out of the flask until it is lare enough to be mounted onto a piece of wood.

I've been reading about tissue culture and have abandoned any ideas about trying to divide it and do this myself. Too expensive and time consuming. I will just leave the flask develop into a strong and healthy plant and hope I can keep it alive.

Getting exicted about collecting it and will post an update once I have it.


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## NYEric (Feb 4, 2014)

No matter how hard they are, this should be about 100 X easier than growing Phrag kovachii from flask. I've seen lots of them growing on wormwood and other bark mounts. 
Here's an eBay listing from a very reliable US vendor for comparison. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-AND-DI...ltDomain_0&hash=item56615bbbf3#ht_1085wt_1001


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## cnycharles (Feb 4, 2014)

I wouldn't put a flask on any windowsill, no matter how little light you think is there. I killed a flask of phal speciosa because it was 7 feet away from a window and a tongue of sunlight got low enough (in winter) and touched the end of the flask and they all cooked
I just recently read where someone had come up with a very good method for growing ghost orchids but can't remember where I saw it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LostInPeru (Feb 4, 2014)

Thanks for the ebay link. It's good to see what they look like once ready for deflasking. Hearing that someone who is so experienced as that seller unable to successfully grow this plant has caused me to make up my mind and abandon any attempts at growing orchids. Just too much work.
I think you need an expensive greenhouse with controlled conditions to even attempt growing any orchid properly from what I have been reading about them.
To be honest I think I got caught up in the excitement of it all and think it would be a mistake to purchase such a high maintenance plant. I can easily see myself getting tired of the high maintenance care regime and the thought of losing the money if the plant dies when I could purchase a whole heap of Carnivorous Plants for that same amount of money and know I could easily keep them alive.
Sorry for wasting your time everyone.


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## LostInPeru (Feb 4, 2014)

The book just arrived lol.

Decided to re-gift it for a family member who is staying with us at this time and who grows a lot of plants themselves.

Afterall I have already read the online article 'The Case of the Purloined Orchid' by Pittman and already pretty much know the story. And now that I am not able to own one their is no point getting caught up in the excitement of it all when I will most probably never see a kovachii bloom.

The book is beautiful though. I see on the back their is a picture of a sighn 'kovachii discobar' which I guess refers to a club or something in Florida?

Anyway all the best.


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## cnycharles (Feb 4, 2014)

Head to your grocery store or box store and grab a phal hybrid. Heck, my mother and two older sisters now own them. Cheap and easy....


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## SlipperFan (Feb 4, 2014)

So, LostinPeru, you have no other orchids, yet you want to grow two of the most difficult orchids in nature, and grow them from flask? I cannot understand this thinking.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Feb 4, 2014)

This has been an ongoing pattern. All of us have given you very valid, excellent advice, and you continually go back and forth between wanting plants that even experienced growers can't handle, and deciding to just give up on the idea of growing orchids. This makes no sense. There are SO MANY orchids that are very easy to grow, easier than most houseplants, and all of them have been mentioned to you. Phals sound perfect for your conditions and they are dirt cheap. So many others...even with phrags, there are hybrids that are super easy to both grow and bloom. There is no need for you to dither around like this. Buy a cheap orchid. You'll be out, what...$5-10? (Don't know Australian exchange rate) and worst comes to worst you toss it in the garbage with minimal loss to your wallet. But its far more likely that if you just give it minimal care it will be around for years.


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## NYEric (Feb 4, 2014)

I have personally killed a FORTUNE in orchids. I am learning from the experience. If you want a list of easy to grow orchids let me know.


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## LostInPeru (Feb 5, 2014)

LOL but don't you think it's overly harsh of the seller to have reacted in such a manner?

I thought by getting away from Carnivorous Plants and Aibo I was moving away from those types of narrow minded opinions but now see they are prevelent in all hobbies and you can't escape them.

Anyway everything is produced by tissue culture, which is not exactly difficult, and you can produce hundreds of the same plant at a time. I don't see how a newbie having a go at growing kovachii is going to have the slightest impact on their status in captivity. 

If anything the seller should be grateful they have found a customer who wants to take on the challenge of growing kovachii as it is a big financial risk on the buyers part while the seller sits back charging a premium price for something that most people would see as too great a risk to take on. I understand charging a premium price for a small potted plant but the prices for flasks are just silly and their lucky to even have any customers. It seems their only interested in doing minimal work for maximum gain. 

For me people are more important and allowing someone the opportunity to have a go at growing kovachii should be something anyone is allowed to pursue. We only live life once and I think it's very selfish for a supplier to not sell to people like that when their is an endless supply of plants coming out of tissue culture in unlimited quantities.

Sure their might be a lot of other great orchids, but for me the appeal of kovachii with it's bold eye catching blooms just seem like something that would be extremely rewarding to grow. I like how kovachii is bold and large and stands out and just find it amazing how something like that could exist in nature for thousands of years and yet stay secluded and unknown until so recently. 

I respect your opinions and will take them on board.


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## NYEric (Feb 5, 2014)

Umm, that would be a valid argument if one could grow Phrags from tissue cultures. They can't be, the flasks you are interested in are grown from seeds.


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## LostInPeru (Feb 5, 2014)

Feel a complete idiot right about now. What is it with these crazy plants. They must be the only plants you can't tissue culture. Knowing this I will never own a kovachii now.

Someone needs to update the wikipedia entry so newbies like me know this stuff.

The supplier did say they had a massive failue rate which I guess is why they don't try and grow them. The whole thing is turnig out to be a nightmare lol. 

I don't see how their is any hope for wild kovachii or even the survival of the domesticated population as seed is such an inefficient method of reproduction when you consider the demand and how that is only going to grow into the future.

I can see how somebody could completely go cold turkey on wanting to have anything to do with owning orchids. Their not for me I am afraid. Good luck.

I totally agree with you that these orchids are not for beginners. I was so stupid and naive. I just assumed they were produced with TC. Sorry.


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## eOrchids (Feb 5, 2014)

Don't say that. You live and learn on what you can and cannot grow. 

Like other member here state, start with a simply orchids (like Phalaenopsis or Cattleya) then work yourself up. Hybrids are easier to grow than species. Talk to other orchid people and vendors and see how can you improve your conditions.

If you interested in kovachii, grow the kovachii hybrids and go from there.

Don't give up.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Feb 5, 2014)

In and of itself, seed growing is the most efficient method for paphs and phrags. You just happened to fixate on one of the most difficult. The seller was doing you a favor. Yes, it is in his best interests to have the most knowledgeable and skillful growers buying his flasks. It is totally against his interests to sell to people who will only kill them. Not only will he turn them off to orchid growing, but he also creates a potential complainer that can hurt his reputation. Please....just listen to us. By the time you get the experience to grow kovachii, it may well be cheaper and far easier to grow. It's been on the (legal) market 10 years at the most. That's not long. It takes people time to learn culture techniques, and even more time to selectively breed easier growers. 10 years after besseae was discovered, it was a very expensive and difficult plant to grow. Now it is very affordable for the ordinary ones (still incredibly beautiful) and one of the easier phrag species to grow.


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## cnycharles (Feb 6, 2014)

Jim of rices orchids now deceased had a good friend who was a great researcher and taxonomist of ants, but a perennial over waterer of orchids. Jim would cringe whenever bill would select a rare or unusual plant because it was going to die a wet death. He would do whatever he could to dissuade his friend from buying plants because it pained him to see them die. He also knew that his friend would feel bad when another rare one would die. While you might be able to mentally prepare yourself for the likelihood if killing kovachii seedlings, the vendor may not be able to  


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## Clark (Feb 7, 2014)

I don't hesitate to f-bomb Pk or the hybrid Allison Strohm.
btw, the vendor didn't hesitate to sell them to me.


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## NYEric (Feb 7, 2014)

Doh!


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## krisk (Feb 17, 2015)

A bit late to the party, but I just thought correct a couple things related to the mentioned seller in this thread. I work with the seller and have replated many of the kovachii in this lab. To say "while the seller sits back charging a premium price for something that most people would see as too great a risk to take on" is just plain ignorant and rude. This species is just as much of a pain to grow in the bottle as it is out of the bottle, and I can assure you that this species is hardly a big money spinner. There has been so much time and effort that has gone into researching the best ways to grow these plants that you could not possibly imagine. Please think before making silly comments.

Cheers,

Kris


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## NYEric (Feb 17, 2015)

Many of us had hoped that this was dead.


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## krisk (Feb 18, 2015)

Sorry, couldn't let that one slide, it was just felt a little unbalanced. Fixed now


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## Justin (Feb 18, 2015)

definitely one of the most unusual episodes in slippertalk history.


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## cnycharles (Feb 18, 2015)

Fascinating like watching a slow motion train wreck


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## Bjorn (Feb 18, 2015)

Fascinating but kind of disturbing as well, and sad....


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## NYEric (Feb 18, 2015)

The only thing to compare would be that 'MOHAN" incident!!!


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## krisk (Feb 18, 2015)

I actually remembered Kevin telling me about a weird phone call he last early last year. Now it all makes sense


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## papheteer (Feb 19, 2015)

OMG... that was entertaining..


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## My Green Pets (Apr 19, 2015)

The guy stirred up the exact same pot of drama over at OrchidBoard.


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## NYEric (Apr 19, 2015)

Ugh!


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## Ma_sha1 (Apr 7, 2016)

Can't stop reading all 7 pages!


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## NYEric (Apr 7, 2016)

Unfortunately, now you can't un-read them!
BTW, why do you have your post/page limit so low? this is a 2 page thread.


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## eggshells (Apr 7, 2016)

NYEric said:


> Unfortunately, now you can't un-read them!
> BTW, why do you have your post/page limit so low? this is a 2 page thread.



Would you like a robot puppy?


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## NYEric (Apr 7, 2016)

I saw the special on the Aibos, very sad for their owners. BTW, that thing pissing on the couch is your baby, not a robot-dog!


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## Ma_sha1 (May 5, 2016)

NYEric said:


> Unfortunately, now you can't un-read them!
> BTW, why do you have your post/page limit so low? this is a 2 page thread.





Reading using my iPhone, not up to me


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## NYEric (May 6, 2016)

Put the phone down and back away slowly.


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## troy (May 6, 2016)

Awardable orchids areThe only orchids that should be grown!!! all others are inferior and should be killed with their owners that don't agree!!!!!! The only reason we grow orchids is to get awards!!!!! Not to enjoy!!!!! Hahahaha


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## [email protected] (May 29, 2016)

Could our friends here in this forum list in order of priority (of course as they see it) the main factors in the successful growing indoors (air conditioned) or in a greenhouse in South Florida of Phrag. kovachii, please? There seems to be so much contradictory information! I love that species so much that I will try growing it indoors like my Miltoniopsis which do very well on my windowsill ! Thank you for the help!


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## suzyquec (May 29, 2016)

I live in south Florida and grow Kovachii successfully in my windowsills. They are in east and southeast facing Windows on humidity trays. I have the potted in"cool pots" that are tall and designed to keep the roots cooler than the air temperature. The air conditioning is on 73-74 at all times. I water daily with RO water and feed weekly with k-Lite and Kelpmax. I also grow seedlings from Peruflora under led lights. In addition I have about 7 adult Kovachii hybrids all under the same conditions and about 7 flasks of seedlings at various stages of growth. All my adults bloom and develop new growth annually.


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## LostInPeru (Apr 21, 2017)

krisk said:


> A bit late to the party, but I just thought correct a couple things related to the mentioned seller in this thread. I work with the seller and have replated many of the kovachii in this lab. To say "while the seller sits back charging a premium price for something that most people would see as too great a risk to take on" is just plain ignorant and rude. This species is just as much of a pain to grow in the bottle as it is out of the bottle, and I can assure you that this species is hardly a big money spinner. There has been so much time and effort that has gone into researching the best ways to grow these plants that you could not possibly imagine. Please think before making silly comments.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Kris






NYEric said:


> Many of us had hoped that this was dead.






krisk said:


> Sorry, couldn't let that one slide, it was just felt a little unbalanced. Fixed now






Justin said:


> definitely one of the most unusual episodes in slippertalk history.






cnycharles said:


> Fascinating like watching a slow motion train wreck






Bjorn said:


> Fascinating but kind of disturbing as well, and sad....






NYEric said:


> The only thing to compare would be that 'MOHAN" incident!!!






krisk said:


> I actually remembered Kevin telling me about a weird phone call he last early last year. Now it all makes sense






papheteer said:


> OMG... that was entertaining..






CambriaWhat said:


> The guy stirred up the exact same pot of drama over at OrchidBoard.





NYEric said:


> Ugh!





Ma_sha1 said:


> Can't stop reading all 7 pages!






NYEric said:


> Unfortunately, now you can't un-read them!
> BTW, why do you have your post/page limit so low? this is a 2 page thread.






eggshells said:


> Would you like a robot puppy?






NYEric said:


> I saw the special on the Aibos, very sad for their owners. BTW, that thing pissing on the couch is your baby, not a robot-dog!






Ma_sha1 said:


> Reading using my iPhone, not up to me






NYEric said:


> Put the phone down and back away slowly.






troy said:


> Awardable orchids areThe only orchids that should be grown!!! all others are inferior and should be killed with their owners that don't agree!!!!!! The only reason we grow orchids is to get awards!!!!! Not to enjoy!!!!! Hahahaha



Karma has a way of dealing with arrogant, vindictive and sadistic people like yourselves who enjoy ridiculing others. Just ask Helen Western or Eric Muehlbauer. Bitter much?


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## cnycharles (Apr 21, 2017)

Eric M was a very sincere, generous and friendly individual. I'm sure his wife and family would take exception to your statement that he deserved getting cancer and dying horribly. His post to you was a sincere helpful post in hopes of politely convincing you that a beginner trying to grow kovachii from flask should rather attempt growing something easier first. There is no angst or animosity in his post, and for his trying to give you steady advice you insinuated that this advice lead to his early death because of his bitter and whatever attitude. This is astonishing. 
Many of us can see that you were a beginner overwhelmed by the allure of orchids..,,. We all were there at one point or another and know that it was highly likely those plants would be dead. And for trying to be helpful you reacted that because we didn't agree with you or tell you what you wanted to hear, we are bitter and vindictive 


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## NYEric (Apr 21, 2017)

LostInPeru said:


> Karma has a way of dealing with arrogant, vindictive and sadistic people like yourselves who enjoy ridiculing others. Just ask Helen Western or Eric Muehlbauer. Bitter much?



You little shite! If I ever meet you expect to have your ass beaten down. You will never have a fraction of the knowledge and generosity of Eric M. It seems that you are a bitter and deluded person. Plus you probably never got the kovachii. Please do us all a favor and stay away from this forum.


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## Lanmark (Jul 2, 2017)

LostInPeru said:


> Karma has a way of dealing with arrogant, vindictive and sadistic people



Then you'd better keep looking over your shoulder, LIP! Karma must have you pegged already.


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## Gcroz (Jul 5, 2017)

LostInPeru said:


> Karma has a way of dealing with arrogant, vindictive and sadistic people like yourselves who enjoy ridiculing others. Just ask Helen Western or Eric Muehlbauer. Bitter much?



What a repulsive thing to say. I hope I never have the misfortune of having you in my presence LIP.


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