# Phrag. Andean Tears



## Phragmatic (Sep 11, 2009)

This is Phrag. Andean Tears (Wallisii X Kovachii). 

The flower opened 2 weeks ago and already started to browning around the edge of the pouch when i took these pictures 2 days ago...:sob: Unfortunately, i couldn`t take the pictures sooner...

Front






side





back


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## Barbara (Sep 11, 2009)

It is lovely, but I thought that Andean Tears was a darker colour. I have a small seedling in my collection which came from Cloud's Orchids back in Aug. 2008, but don't believe that is near blooming size yet. 

Your plant doesn't look very large, might I ask about the size?


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## SlipperFan (Sep 11, 2009)

Barbara, I think you are thinking of Inti's Tears (Phrag. Sorcerer's Apprentice x Phrag. caudatum var. warscewiczianum)

Denis, that is just gorgeous. I love the pouch, especially. And the color. And the shape. Where did you get this plant???


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## Barbara (Sep 11, 2009)

I'm not familiar with that one Dot. But I have seen a couple pictures of Andean Tears, one of which from OrchidWeb, and they were showing the colour to be a bit darker then this. But I really do like the pale pink too, I wonder if that will darken in the cooler weather.

I'm wondering where it came from too....


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## Scott Ware (Sep 11, 2009)

That is spectacular. The clean, true pink color is just out of this world.


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## Phrag-Plus (Sep 11, 2009)

Wow! Very nice and different I like it! And the second flowering should be improve too....


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## smartie2000 (Sep 12, 2009)

magnificent! I love those petals


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## Kevin (Sep 12, 2009)

Is this the same plant that you were concerned about earlier, with the bud forming too soon? Interesting result with this cross. I like the soft pink colours! 

Barbara, I too have only seen one other photo of this cross - the one on Orchid Limited's site from Manolo Arias of Peruflora. I, and a few others, am a little sceptical if that photo is accurate. It looks like a Belle Hougue Point (or similar cross) coloured purple! If it is right, why is there such a huge difference between it and this one? The colour and shape are very different. Anyone have comments on this?

We'll see how long it will be until mine blooms!

Denis - do you have the measurements of the flower?


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## biothanasis (Sep 12, 2009)

Weird shape and nice colouration!


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## phrag guy (Sep 12, 2009)

very nice and different,I like it alot


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## e-spice (Sep 12, 2009)

That's very pretty. That's a good mix of the two parents. I saw a picture of another one posted here and there was very little kovachii influence.

e-spice


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## SlipperKing (Sep 12, 2009)

That is really a nice outcome! Love those petals!


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## Hera (Sep 12, 2009)

Love it, love it, love it!! The color and the frilly petals are very appealing. Maybe its just the girl in me.........


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## John M (Sep 12, 2009)

Beautiful! Do you have a photo of the flower from the front...and maybe not quite so close-up?


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## John M (Sep 12, 2009)

Kevin said:


> Barbara, I too have only seen one other photo of this cross - the one on Orchid Limited's site from Manolo Arias of Peruflora. I, and a few others, am a little sceptical if that photo is accurate. It looks like a Belle Hougue Point (or similar cross) coloured purple! If it is right, why is there such a huge difference between it and this one? The colour and shape are very different. Anyone have comments on this?



I don't often say this with such confidence.....just from seeing a single photo; but, that photo on Orchid Limited's site is *NOT* labelled correctly. I see no kovachii influence at all. The flower pictured in this thread looks exactly what you would expect from a cross of wallisii and kovachii. It is obviously intermediate between the two. The flower on OL's site has vestigal horns on each side of the pouch rim. Neither wallisii nor kovachii has horns. They are a sign that something like longifolium or boisserianum is in the lineage.


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## CodPaph (Sep 12, 2009)

Magnific, very very nice


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## Kevin (Sep 12, 2009)

John M said:


> I don't often say this with such confidence.....just from seeing a single photo; but, that photo on Orchid Limited's site is *NOT* labelled correctly. I see no kovachii influence at all. The flower pictured in this thread looks exactly what you would expect from a cross of wallisii and kovachii. It is obviously intermediate between the two. The flower on OL's site has vestigal horns on each side of the pouch rim. Neither wallisii nor kovachii has horns. They are a sign that something like longifolium or boisserianum is in the lineage.



Yes, I agree. When Jason Fischer was here, he was sceptical of it too. How do you explain Manolo Arias of being credited for the photo? Doesn't seem very professional.


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## Phrag-Plus (Sep 12, 2009)

John M said:


> I don't often say this with such confidence.....just from seeing a single photo; but, that photo on Orchid Limited's site is *NOT* labelled correctly. I see no kovachii influence at all. The flower pictured in this thread looks exactly what you would expect from a cross of wallisii and kovachii. It is obviously intermediate between the two. The flower on OL's site has vestigal horns on each side of the pouch rim. Neither wallisii nor kovachii has horns. They are a sign that something like longifolium or boisserianum is in the lineage.



I agree too!


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## gonewild (Sep 12, 2009)

Kevin said:


> Yes, I agree. When Jason Fischer was here, he was sceptical of it too. How do you explain Manolo Arias of being credited for the photo? Doesn't seem very professional.



Easy to explain.....
Who was the first to register the hybrid? 
Who has credit for a suspect photo?


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## John M (Sep 12, 2009)

gonewild said:


> Easy to explain.....
> Who was the first to register the hybrid?
> Who has credit for a suspect photo?



Oooooooooh, I see! That's despicable!


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## SlipperFan (Sep 12, 2009)

Not too long ago, there was a heated discussion on this forum about the credibility of the Arias' kovachii and hybrids. Time will tell -- maybe is beginning to tell.


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## toddybear (Sep 12, 2009)

What a lovely shade of pink...and funky petals!


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## Kyle (Sep 12, 2009)

SlipperFan said:


> Not too long ago, there was a heated discussion on this forum about the credibility of the Arias' kovachii and hybrids. Time will tell -- maybe is beginning to tell.



I think time has told. All crosses have begun to bloom and all have bloomed true. 

I am surprised that Peruflora would do something like this (Re: incorrect photo), but I think in regards to the crosses, they have been proven to be sold correctly. If given the oppurtunity, I would not hesitate to buy a flask from Manolo.

Kyle


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## Phragmatic (Sep 12, 2009)

To Barbara, Dot, Kevin and John

Dot, this one comes from a flask imported from Peruflora in 2006.

Yes, Kevin, this is the one i was talking about a few weeks ago. I was expecting a multifloral since Wallisii is the pod parent, but i like it a lot.
I hope that, at least, one of the others from that flask will be multifloral.

Barbara, the light color maybe because the plant had decided to bloom during the hot summer days. Also, we have to consider the fact that Wallisii, as a light color species do have an influence on the coloration too.

Here`s the measurements:

Plant: 50cm leafspan
Dorsal: 2.5cm X 6 cm
Petals: 2cm X 11 cm
Synsepal: 4cm X 5cm
Whole flower: from the tip of the dorsal to the bottom of the pouch: 12.5cm
X 9cm wide from a petal to the other.

Here`s a front photo for John


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## John M (Sep 12, 2009)

Thank you Denis. That's awesome!


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## Phrag-Plus (Sep 13, 2009)

Kyle said:


> I think time has told. All crosses have begun to bloom and all have bloomed true.
> 
> I am surprised that Peruflora would do something like this (Re: incorrect photo), but I think in regards to the crosses, they have been proven to be sold correctly. If given the oppurtunity, I would not hesitate to buy a flask from Manolo.
> 
> Kyle



I'm agree with Kyle and John, 

It is true than the first pictures we’ve seen was different, not what I was expecting from it at first too. But now we are talking about the difference between 2 flowers let see some more flowers before to throw the rock at somebody...

My experience with Pharmipediums, tell me than we can’t judge a cross potential by its first flowering. We do have all to learn about P. kovachii and its influence in hybridisation too, all is still expectations. From now, crosses and specimens we’ve seen from each cross are showing different levels of variability too. 

Peruflora’s breeding program was primary hybrids, selfing and sibling. And all what I’ve got from them should bloom this year, plants are all growing very well and by the foliage and I don’t have any doubt about all the primary crosses identification.


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## P-chan (Sep 13, 2009)

It's stunning! I absolutely love it! WOW!!


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## John M (Sep 13, 2009)

I'll look forward to seeing the first blooms on plants from this hybrid crossed back onto kovachii = 3/4 kovachii and 1/4 wallisii. It would be neat if that widened the petals even more, flattened the dorsal and introduced more colour saturation.


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## Elena (Sep 13, 2009)

That's one unusual-looking Phrag. I really like the soft colour.


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## Kevin (Sep 13, 2009)

John M said:


> I'll look forward to seeing the first blooms on plants from this hybrid crossed back onto kovachii = 3/4 kovachii and 1/4 wallisii. It would be neat if that widened the petals even more, flattened the dorsal and introduced more colour saturation.



That would be interesting. For me, I'd like to see this hybrid crossed back onto wallisii. Might give the look of some of the long-petalled besseae crosses, except with a mauve colour instead of red. Actually, a Grande x kovachii would be nice too. Anyone know if this has been done?


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## NYEric (Sep 13, 2009)

http://www.phragmipediumkovachii.com/flasks/Our-catalog.htm
Nobody has advertised that cross yet. 
I have problems w/ Perufloras transport methods because they number the plants and I have unclear sales references!  and we all know the issue that happened w/ flasks before. That said, this is the nicest Andean Tears I've seen [of 3] to date. I realize that this isn't a complete list as I think I have some that aren't on this site. Sorry.


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## Kevin (Sep 13, 2009)

You've seen 3 of these in bloom? Where can we see the pictures?


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## NYEric (Sep 13, 2009)

I have to check, a canadian site or chuck ackers.  I don't remember exaclty.


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## raymond (Sep 13, 2009)

wow very nice flower


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## SlipperFan (Sep 13, 2009)

Thank you, Dennis.


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## Phrag-Plus (Sep 13, 2009)

Kevin said:


> That would be interesting. For me, I'd like to see this hybrid crossed back onto wallisii. Might give the look of some of the long-petalled besseae crosses, except with a mauve colour instead of red. Actually, a Grande x kovachii would be nice too. Anyone know if this has been done?



Grande x kovachii = Phragmipedium Frank Smith registred by Krull-Smith few months ago...


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## Kevin (Sep 13, 2009)

Nice! Thanks. Are you going to do some kovachii breeding too when yours bloom? What direction would you like to go in?


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## Phrag-Plus (Sep 15, 2009)

Kevin said:


> Nice! Thanks. Are you going to do some kovachii breeding too when yours bloom? What direction would you like to go in?



For sure!

I do have plenty of cross just waiting for the pollen now :evil:. And with my experience, I will not spoil them.... 
I will explore as much directions as possible; but my first goal is always to understand the transmission of genes and its expression in the Phragmipedium hybridisation. 

I will sib and self the specie and treat them to get some 4n plants for sure.
But first, I will wait to see the kovachii influence and results and then decide where I will go.

But since Denis and I first saw the kovachii, we are dreaming about a large branching Phragmipedium holding many colourful flowers as big as Cattleya. Isn’t a nice dream! :drool:


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## Drorchid (Sep 15, 2009)

I agree, that Dennis's picture of Andean Tears, is more what I would have expected of this cross. The picture that is on our website was given to us by Manolo Arias (from Peruflora), who registered the cross back in 2008. Thus far I know Dennis's plant may be the second one of that cross to bloom. I don't think we can make any conclusions yet before we see more of this cross, there may be some variation within the cross. As an example: on our website the picture of Phrag. Eumelia Arias (schlimii x kovachii); it too looks very different compared to when we first bloomed that cross.
compare: http://www.orchidweb.com/detail.aspx?ID=1602 to
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11699

Robert


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## Jason Fischer (Sep 15, 2009)

Drorchid said:


> As an example: on our website the picture of Phrag. Eumelia Arias (schlimii x kovachii); it too looks very different compared to when we first bloomed that cross.
> compare: http://www.orchidweb.com/detail.aspx?ID=1602 to
> http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11699
> 
> Robert



I actually updated our web with our own photo, so this comparison is gone. Personally, I don't think that either photo we received for kovachii x wallisii and kovachii x schlimii were accurate, if even real. kovachii x schlimii looked to be photoshop-ed together, and the kovachii x wallisii did not look like it had kovachii in the background at all! I'm glad to see this posting and really like the way this cross turned out.


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## Drorchid (Sep 15, 2009)

Phrag-Plus said:


> But since Denis and I first saw the kovachii, we are dreaming about a large branching Phragmipedium holding many colourful flowers as big as Cattleya. Isn’t a nice dream! :drool:



Your dream is not too far off. One of our Phrag. Fritz Schomburg's (besseae x kovachii) is blooming for the second time now. It is blooming from the third growth now, which is now much larger than when it was blooming from the second growth. The resulting flower spike is also much larger, and it is branching! I will post pictures later.


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## Kavanaru (Sep 15, 2009)

Drorchid said:


> Your dream is not too far off. One of our Phrag. Fritz Schomburg's (besseae x kovachii) is blooming for the second time now. It is blooming from the third growth now, which is now much larger than when it was blooming from the second grwoth. The resulting flower spike is also much larger, and it is branching! I will post pictures later.



I must admit I am not yet a big fan of kovachii hybrids (also not of the species - but I would not mind having it either )... however, a branching Phrag with LARGE red/purple flowers would probably make me drool.. :drool:


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## SlipperFan (Sep 15, 2009)

Jason Fischer said:


> I actually updated our web with our own photo, so this comparison is gone. Personally, I don't think that either photo we received for kovachii x wallisii and kovachii x schlimii were accurate, if even real. kovachii x schlimii looked to be photoshop-ed together, and the kovachii x wallisii did not look like it had kovachii in the background at all! I'm glad to see this posting and really like the way this cross turned out.



Whew -- I thought I was going nuts. I didn't see any difference.

Thanks for the explanation, Jason.


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## Phrag-Plus (Sep 15, 2009)

Drorchid said:


> Your dream is not too far off. One of our Phrag. Fritz Schomburg's (besseae x kovachii) is blooming for the second time now. It is blooming from the third growth now, which is now much larger than when it was blooming from the second growth. The resulting flower spike is also much larger, and it is branching! I will post pictures later.



Yes! :drool: Can't wait to see it!


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## NYEric (Sep 15, 2009)

I have to try to find where I saw the other photos. I remember one had long petals and wasn't my thing.


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## Gilda (Sep 17, 2009)

Beautiful !!!!!!!:clap:


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## callosum (Sep 17, 2009)

The pink paph
the sweet paph too


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## NYEric (Sep 18, 2009)

callosum said:


> The pink paph
> the sweet paph too



Welcome to the forum.
BTW, its a *phrag*mipedium.


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