# HELP !! Someone is using my photo on EBAY



## Gilda (Nov 8, 2007)

without my permission. What can I do ?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270183270584


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## Marco (Nov 8, 2007)

contact them....at least they kept your name on there


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## MoreWater (Nov 8, 2007)

Submit a NOCI form via the VeRO program.


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## Candace (Nov 8, 2007)

> at least they kept your name on there



Only because they couldn't figure out how to delete that part. Send them an e-mail that if they don't take down your photo asap that you'll contact ebay directly. That should probably do the trick.

Edit: Ki's form is a great idea. I'm going to bookmark it since I've had problems in the past with ebay and people stealing my photos. Thanks!!


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## practicallyostensible (Nov 8, 2007)

Lame. Ironically (or not) they are the only seller that I have a problem with buying plants from on ebay. They sent my seedling to Los Angeles Wisconsin so it was lost in the mail for weeks. It was a measly little seedling too.


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## MoreWater (Nov 8, 2007)

The VeRo program works quite well, I think. The first time you have to fax it in (needs a signature) but generally they let you do email after that.


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## kentuckiense (Nov 8, 2007)

Talk to Dot (Slipperfan) about that. That seller has a history of using her photos without permission, I believe. Maybe she can offer advice.


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## Gilda (Nov 8, 2007)

Thanks to all..I PM'd Dot for advice, and have downloaded the NOIC form(bummer it has to be faxed the first time) I also contacted the violater via Ebay.


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## Gilda (Nov 9, 2007)

Marco said:


> contact them....at least they kept your name on there



I always try and put the name near the bloom so it is difficult to edit the picture . This seller obviously doesn't care ! I have contacted them to remove the photo from their listing and so far no response.


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## NYEric (Nov 9, 2007)

Nuke 'em!


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## MoreWater (Nov 9, 2007)

I think many sellers don't care so long as their item sells, so the best way to get their attention is to get the auction stopped before it ends. If they re-list the item again with an unauthorized photo, stop them again. EBay needs time to process the noci, so the sooner it's sent in, the better. 

It takes work to protect rights, so you have to decide what it's worth.


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## Gilda (Nov 9, 2007)

It's gone from their listing !:clap: Anyone ever seeing my photos on Ebay please let me know. I try and scope slippers on Ebay out, but I have been very busy , so this one only had a couple of days left before I caught it. Thanks all !


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## gore42 (Nov 9, 2007)

I've had problems with jkorchids, too (though, not with them using my photos). Glad you got it sorted out!

- Matt


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## MoreWater (Nov 9, 2007)

good job! You must have been very persuasive


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## kentuckiense (Nov 12, 2007)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Phrag-carcinum-...ryZ42218QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Dot, the flower photo has the borders that you often add? Is it yours?


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## goldenrose (Nov 12, 2007)

....hmmm...... just happens to be the same vendor! Doesn't learn too quickly! 
In a way I can't blame him, as you both have such good quality photos!


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## Gilda (Nov 12, 2007)

If you go and look at what this vendor has listed ...I see some familiar backgrounds, *everyone* should go take a look and see if their pictures are being used !!!


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## SlipperFan (Nov 12, 2007)

kentuckiense said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/Phrag-carcinum-...e watchful eyes from members of this forum!?!


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## goldenrose (Nov 12, 2007)

Does one need a photo program of sorts to put an ID on a photo as Gilda & Dot have?


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## Heather (Nov 12, 2007)

I could be wrong but it looks like some of Peter Cataldo's (Greenpaph) are being used as well?


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## Candace (Nov 12, 2007)

> Does one need a photo program of sorts to put an ID on a photo as Gilda & Dot have?



Yes, many are on the market. I use photoshop. Unfortunately names etc. can be removed if the thief really wants to do it.


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## practicallyostensible (Nov 12, 2007)

Candace said:


> Yes, many are on the market. I use photoshop. Unfortunately names etc. can be removed if the thief really wants to do it.



It really sucks that things have come to this. It bothers me more that this seller has the nerve to take a photo of a plant with a completely different linage and pass it off as the one they are selling. I guess it's a good lesson about buying from unknown sellers.


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## cdub (Nov 12, 2007)

I'm going to be frank for a moment here and probably sound like jerk, but what's the big friggin deal with someone using your the photos ya'll have taken? Seriously. I can understand if you are a competitor, selling similar plants, or selling prints of your photos, or something like that. So, if you do that, then OK. But if you don't, what's the big deal. So the seller makes a few bucks. Yeah yeah you certainly have copyrights to your material, but if the buyer is duped into buying something that's not actually what's in the photo and if you aren't trying to make a profit of your photography or plants in the photos then what exactly is the terrible problem you all see in this? I'm really curious.

Feel free to chew me out on this one. At least it'll help me understand the situation.


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## Gilda (Nov 12, 2007)

Heather said:


> I could be wrong but it looks like some of Peter Cataldo's (Greenpaph) are being used as well?



I thought so too.


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## Candace (Nov 12, 2007)

> I'm going to be frank for a moment here and probably sound like jerk, but what's the big friggin deal with someone using your the photos ya'll have taken? Seriously. I can understand if you are a competitor, selling similar plants, or selling prints of your photos, or something like that. So, if you do that, then OK. But if you don't, what's the big deal. So the seller makes a few bucks. Yeah yeah you certainly have copyrights to your material, but if the buyer is duped into buying something that's not actually what's in the photo and if you aren't trying to make a profit of your photography or plants in the photos then what exactly is the terrible problem you all see in this? I'm really curious.




I view it as other people making a buck off of my investment and effort. My time investment and my actual $. It took my money to purchase my digital camera, my money to host my website and my computer to upload my photos, my money to purchase the phototograpy software, oh yeah, and my money to buy a plant, grow it out, bloom it and post it for educational benefit. Then someone swipes my photo or better yet hot-links directly to it, screwing me twice by using my server bandwidth that I'm paying yearly for. 

I think most folks would be willing to lend photos if accurate credit is given, or really just because someone asks is usually good enough for me. If these folks paid my yearly website fees, bought me a new camera every few years or threw me a plant etc. I'd be much more open to them having a free-for-all with my pictures. 

A few people have voiced the same thing cdub...but they don't take photos and haven't had it happen to them. If you've felt taken advantage of, like I have, it would bother you. I really feel for professional photographers who make their living this way..


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## kentuckiense (Nov 12, 2007)

I agree with Candace on this one. I bought the camera and I bought the plant.

Furthermore, such sellers that use photos without permission only serve to further handicap the honest growers/sellers who incur all the costs of photo usage, be it camera buying, paying a photographer, or paying for the rights to use photos. It's not cheap.

If someone wanted to use one of my photos for an auction or something, I'd likely let them do it for free. Similarly, I'd let my roommates use my bike, camera, or borrow money for free, but I certainly wouldn't tolerate them taking said items without my permission.

Asking permission isn't hard. I think the laziness and dishonesty of those that use photos without permission is manifested in the quality of their products. From what I've heard about jkorchids, that observation remains solid.


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## Candace (Nov 12, 2007)

Wow, I think you summed it up perfectly, Zach.


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## Gilda (Nov 12, 2007)

Candace said:


> I view it as other people making a buck off of my investment and effort. My time investment and my actual $. It took my money to purchase my digital camera,and my computer to upload my photos, my money to purchase the phototograpy software, oh yeah, and my money to buy a plant, grow it out, bloom it and post it for educational benefit. Then someone swipes my photo .



Ditto to what Candace said !!!:clap:


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## practicallyostensible (Nov 13, 2007)

Nice points Zach and Candace. The fact that they are not giving credit to the people the deserve it for the time and money that they put into buying, caring for, and photographing their plants is the root of the problem. Besides that though, by showing the bloom off plants with a completely different genetic background, and I think that they are essentially being dishonest to their customers. The photo that they are using of the Paph. kolopakingii is off Cloud's website, but I very much doubt that the one the are selling is the same quality. On their page they say, "The other picture is what the blooms will look like" not that the photo is representative of the blooms.


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## cdub (Nov 13, 2007)

Thanks for helping me understand folks. I get the whole taking without permission thing. I guess it's never hit me hard because I don't host a website or post gobs of wonderful photos like you all do.

Carry on.


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## L I Jane (Nov 13, 2007)

It's never been a big issue with me--in fact a few people have contacted me to get my permission to use a pic on ebay etc & I was flattered but then I'm not in competition.LOL.I certainly understand that others could be offended & I respect that.


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## TheLorax (Nov 13, 2007)

I let people use my images whenever they contact me providing they're not being used inappropriately. I've got a few that ended up on plant stakes mass marketed by the thousands for large scale wholesale nurseries but... I'm not in competition with them because I don't sell plants and I'm certainly not even close to being a professional photographer so if they want to save time, energy, and expense to market their plant using one of my photographs; more power to them. Actually, I'm often times amused when I am contacted because I point and click with a camera and everything is on automatic. If I found someone using an image of mine without my knowledge and consent, I'd probably decide whether to go gunning for them based on how it was used but that's just little at-home gardener with nothing at stake me.


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## SlipperFan (Nov 13, 2007)

All good points made above. I would add that my photos have been lifted from a commercial grower's site. I take the photos for Porter's Orchids and maintain their site. When I first started this site and posted my photos, I never dreamed there would be an eBay, or that sellers there would steal photos for their own profit. I taught Photoshop and Painter for a number of years, and always made sure my students knew about copyright issues.

I, like all trained photographers, spent years studying photography, and thousands of dollars for all the equipment I use. I don't understand why anyone would not think it was wrong to use my photos without my permission.

I filled out and faxed the NOCI form to eBay. I also wrote to Joe (j&k) and told him I was very unhappy about his use of one of my photos for the second time. I've not heard back from either eBay or Joe yet.

Finally, it is just plain unethical and illegal to steal property that belongs to someone. These people who don't bother to contact the originator know what they are doing -- they just hope the internet is so big and "free" that no one will notice. So thanks for noticing and bringing these thefts to our attention.

A deep thanks to all the folks here that recognize when a photo of one of our members has been used in a situation that makes them question the legitimacy.


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## kentuckiense (Nov 13, 2007)

SlipperFan said:


> I also wrote to Joe (j&k) and told him I was very unhappy about his use of *one* of my photos for the second time. I've not heard back from either eBay or Joe yet.



Two photos, just so you know.


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## SlipperFan (Nov 13, 2007)

kentuckiense said:


> Two photos, just so you know.


Thanks!!!
I just checked, and sure enough, he's using my kolo cross photo, also. So I sent a follow up note to ebay. And another one to Joe.


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## cdub (Nov 13, 2007)

SlipperFan said:


> Finally, it is just plain unethical and illegal to steal property that belongs to someone.



I agree it is certainly unethical. But, the title of the thread: "HELP...." led me to believe that someone using a forum member's photo without permission was cause for an alarm somewhat different than that of a violation of ethics.


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## kentuckiense (Nov 13, 2007)

cdub said:


> I agree it is certainly unethical. But, the title of the thread: "HELP...." led me to believe that someone using a forum member's photo without permission was cause for an alarm somewhat different than that of a violation of ethics.



I simply saw it as a request for guidance from someone unfamiliar with the resources available to those who have their photos used on eBay without permission. The title spelled it out pretty clearly, I thought. Is your qualm with the use of all caps in 'HELP?' I don't think I'm following your line of thought here.


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## MoreWater (Nov 13, 2007)

cdub said:


> I agree it is certainly unethical. But, the title of the thread: "HELP...." led me to believe that someone using a forum member's photo without permission was cause for an alarm somewhat different than that of a violation of ethics.



Use of a photo may also be a violation of copyright law, for which the copyright owner can get monetary damages (even a statutory amount may be available) - if hoops are jumped through and a lawsuit pursued. As it's civil law, it is up to the copyright owner to decide whether the photo is worth the hassle and legal fees. 

Personally, I would be pissed if a large scale nursery lifted my photo. Even if the royalty or pic sale price is minimal, that still could still add up (especially when converted to the cost of buying plants for me).


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## Gilda (Nov 14, 2007)

My reason for the post was exactly what Kentuckiense said. I knew this problem had happended to other forum members ,but I did not know how to go about stopping/preventing this. HELP being in caps, was to bring the title to quick attention, because I wanted *my* photo removed from their eBay listing asap. I had emailed the violater , asking them to remove it, never heard back and the photo remained another day...I had to go to the next level before my photo was removed.
I thank all of you who guided me in this matter.


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## cdub (Nov 14, 2007)

Alright, I'll quit it here. I guess this is a "choose your battle" kind of situation. The effort to pursue the user of the photo doesn't seem worth it, to me anyways. But, I can see how others might feel it's worth it.


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## the jive turkey (Nov 14, 2007)

ethical...meh. I agree with Cdub in the "not worth my time". 

the best way for someone not to steal your image is to not publish. think about how much time and money the music industry spends in coming up with to prevent downloading music. teh imternet is huge, what about ebay on the other side of the world, like ebay china...no way you get them all

but, I hear everybody's frustration and I want to help.
it seems that this vendor is not "learning a lesson" because they keep taking photos. We need to make it not profitable or not worth their time to use people's photos=Class action lawsuit? or start a stolen photos thread by each vendor including a screenshot-- "JK orchids stolen photos thread" to try to spread bad PR if people google that vendor then that thread will come up sooner or later.


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## Candace (Nov 14, 2007)

> ethical...meh. I agree with Cdub in the "not worth my time".


 That's your opinion and your entitled to it. Those of us who've invested much in our hobby and feel taken advantage of will continue to stand up for ourselves. 



> the best way for someone not to steal your image is to not publish.


 I don't believe this is practical advice. This forum would be severely limited without educational photos. I for one, am very thankful for everyone who posts photos. Not only are the educational, but just plain nice to look at! I'm not one to give in easily when I believe I'm in the right...



> it seems that this vendor is not "learning a lesson" because they keep taking photos. We need to make it not profitable or not worth their time to use people's photos=Class action lawsuit? or start a stolen photos thread by each vendor including a screenshot-- "JK orchids stolen photos thread" to try to spread bad PR if people google that vendor then that thread will come up sooner or later.



I agree with this. Unfortunately, most forums delete older postings after a while to save on server space used.


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## JDY (Nov 14, 2007)

This one is a photo from Chuck Ackers site Phrag. Mem. Dick Clements ‘Rocket Flash’ 4N not Phrag Shermans March (Phrag. Mem. Dick Clements x Phrag Barbara LeAnn) there is no way that this plant will look like MDC ‘Rocket Flash’ 4N when it blooms. So that makes this person nothing more than, well you know.
Jon Young


http://cgi.ebay.com/Phrag-Shermans-...hZ017QQcategoryZ42218QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem


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