# Hybrid Definitions?



## wilbeck (May 8, 2007)

Is there a precise definition of "bulldog Paph.?" I'm reasonably sure it is a "complex hybrid," but not all complex hybrids are "bulldogs." I presume a "complex hybrid" has at least one parent a hybrid itself. Thanks for any information.


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## Ron-NY (May 8, 2007)

Bulldog type is a complex hybrid but not all complex hybrids are bulldog types. Look at a picture of a bulldog's face and you can see where the term came from. Sometimes they are referred to as "Toads" I believe bopth terms came from the flat, pushed in look

http://www.petplanet.co.uk/petplanet/images/breeds/bulldog74.jpg


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## SlipperFan (May 8, 2007)

wilbeck said:


> Is there a precise definition of "bulldog Paph.?" I'm reasonably sure it is a "complex hybrid," but not all complex hybrids are "bulldogs." I presume a "complex hybrid" has at least one parent a hybrid itself. Thanks for any information.


That's my understanding.
I think "bulldog" refers to the aim of creating large, round, waxy paphs.


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## Ernie (May 8, 2007)

Traditionally, bulldog refers to the plain-leaf, unifloral hybrids that have large, glossy, long-lasting flowers. If you were to do a parentage tree in OrchidWiz or WildCatt, you'd find some monsterous tree that probably leads back to one or several unknown parents. Of the known parents, you'd eventually see species compositions including spicerianum, villosum, bellatulum, gratrixianum, druryi, boxallii, insigne... For instance, Paph Winston Churchill is 36% insigne, 22% spicerianum, 19% UNKNOWN, 11% villosum, 11% boxallii, remainder bellatulum. 

I see you're in the Mid-America region. The MAOC show rules indicate anything that's not a primary hybrid is complex. A primary hybrid is a hybrid composed of ONLY TWO species. I personally disagree with this breakup for ribbon judging- you end up with third generation Lawrenceanum-ish (Maudiae-types) hybrids with 30 generation-old true complexes and Paph. Maudiae gets stuck with the primaries. 

-Ernie


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## SlipperFan (May 8, 2007)

Ernie said:


> I see you're in the Mid-America region. The MAOC show rules indicate anything that's not a primary hybrid is complex. A primary hybrid is a hybrid composed of ONLY TWO species. I personally disagree with this breakup for ribbon judging- you end up with third generation Lawrenceanum-ish (Maudiae-types) hybrids with 30 generation-old true complexes and Paph. Maudiae gets stuck with the primaries.
> 
> -Ernie


Hey, Ernie, I understand that the MAOC is in the process of changing it's rules. Now would be a good time to write up a proposal and submit it. I did.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (May 8, 2007)

Bulldog is a nice general term for the complex paphs...."toad" applies more to the spotted ones, light Winston Churchill "Indomitable"...Eric


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## gonewild (May 8, 2007)

So groups are:

Species
Primary Hybrids
Complex hybrids
Multiflorals
Bulldogs

What else makes for simple grouping?


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## paphreek (May 9, 2007)

Ernie said:


> I see you're in the Mid-America region. The MAOC show rules indicate anything that's not a primary hybrid is complex. A primary hybrid is a hybrid composed of ONLY TWO species. I personally disagree with this breakup for ribbon judging- you end up with third generation Lawrenceanum-ish (Maudiae-types) hybrids with 30 generation-old true complexes and Paph. Maudiae gets stuck with the primaries.
> 
> -Ernie


Using the current MAOC rules also puts nonprimary multifloral hybrids such as Paph Angel Hair in the same judging category as a complex Paph.


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## littlefrog (May 9, 2007)

paphreek said:


> Using the current MAOC rules also puts nonprimary multifloral hybrids such as Paph Angel Hair in the same judging category as a complex Paph.



Although in practice, that doesn't really make as much of a difference as you might think. For ribbon judging, as long as there are a few experienced persons judging paphs it is relatively easy to compare complex multiflorals to bulldogs. At least it is for me. Or I fake it well, maybe. It isn't at all different than judging allied species in most groups (cattleya allies, dendrobium allied, oncidium, etc). You get some bizzare differences there. And don't get me started on pleurothallids and miscellaneous genera.


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## li'l frog (May 9, 2007)

MAOC rules also allow the host society and the judging teams to divide the class if there are sufficient of each type of plant, so you may then judge single-flowered separatly from multi-flowered.


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