# Paph. niveum & Paph Mystic Isle



## Kavanaru (Nov 14, 2010)

Not exactly the best niveum but at least the only one I have managed to bloom... First time bloomer, so I think I will let it go for one or two season more... on the other hand, it is supposed to be 100% niveum (selfing of an awarded plant), but somehow I think it is not a true niveum...



Paphiopedilum niveum  by kavanaru, on Flickr

This plant was originally sold as Paph niveum var. ang thong... once it bloomed I brought the pictures to the nursery and after several discussions they confirmed it was Paph. Mystic Isle... So, it has gotten that label, even though I am not 100% it is the right name... This is the second time it blooms and it has improved a lot (NS 8.5 cm - the first time it was only 5.5 cm!). The flower is not perfect, but somehow I like it...



Paphiopedilum Mystic Isle  by kavanaru, on Flickr



Paphiopedilum Mystic Isle  by kavanaru, on Flickr

One&half years ago... "Mystic Isle" on the left



Paphiopedilum Mystic Isle &amp; Paphiopedilum Muriel Constance by kavanaru, on Flickr


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## JeanLux (Nov 14, 2010)

Our connaisseurs (sorry for the french orthogr.) would say: too many spottings for a niveum; but for me nevertheless an fine brachy bloom on a good stem!!!
And interesting comparison for those Mistic Isle shots!!! Jean


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## Kavanaru (Nov 14, 2010)

JeanLux said:


> Our connaisseurs (sorry for the french orthogr.)


 hehe, don't worry... I don't speak french either... 



JeanLux said:


> too many spottings for a niveum; but for me nevertheless an fine brachy bloom on a good stem!!!


 and too big! That's actually what makes me think it is not pure niveum...


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## John M (Nov 14, 2010)

It is VERY beautiful! I want it!....but, it's definitely NOT pure niveum.


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## jblanford (Nov 14, 2010)

Well I sure like it a lot, wish it was mine..... Jim.


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## cliokchi (Nov 14, 2010)

Hi Ramon,
very nice pictures , but I think your Paph. niveum
is also not true to Name ! 

A]because Paph. niveum always has a solid yellow staminodium
B]the spotting or stippling on niveum is like fine pepper spots
C]most of the time the pouch is snow white without any stippling
Cliokchi


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## Kavanaru (Nov 14, 2010)

cliokchi said:


> A]because Paph. niveum always has a solid yellow staminodium



really? I think I have never seen a niveum with solid yellow staminodium... I agree that the stami of my plant does not look ver ymuch niveum, but I am a bit confused with the color decsription you are giving here... e.g. none of them here has a solid yellow staminodium: http://www.slipperorchids.info/paphspecies/index.html 

Can you explain a bit more on that?


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## SlipperKing (Nov 14, 2010)

I think the stami color is close to correct white with yellow center. The spotting and petal shape says godfroyae to me.


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## cliokchi (Nov 14, 2010)

hi Kavanuru,
sorry I Phrased it wrong, I should have said there's a fairly large yellow
marking on the staminodium instead of solid yellow, my apologies for creating confusion.
I attach some Paph. niveum line bred from our collection
kindest regards
cliokchi 


Kavanaru said:


> really? I think I have never seen a niveum with solid yellow staminodium... I agree that the stami of my plant does not look ver ymuch niveum, but I am a bit confused with the color decsription you are giving here... e.g. none of them here has a solid yellow staminodium: http://www.slipperorchids.info/paphspecies/index.html
> 
> Can you explain a bit more on that?


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## SlipperFan (Nov 14, 2010)

Not niveum -- always sad when you think you have one thing and it turns out to be something else.


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## toddybear (Nov 14, 2010)

I think is wonderful, whatever the cross!


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## Kavanaru (Nov 15, 2010)

Thanks for the comments!


Thanks, Cliokchi! That's now clear  Actually, my plant do have a quite yellow spot on thestaminodium (unfortunately, not very obvious on that picture).. But I do agree that the rest of the flowers says "Not niveum" to me too... 

Now to everybody: Do you really like the "Paph niveum" plant (First Pic)? Maybe I still need learn a lot more from what a good Brachy is, but I am not really convinced with that flower at all... I think the petals are just too large for the whole flower, giving it a weird look...

The second plant "Paph. Mystic Isle" (second and third Pic), even though a bit asymmetric and with dorsal turned slightly backward, fits more my taste....


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## NYEric (Nov 15, 2010)

There are so many niveum, godefroyae, blah blah blah, crosses etc around it's hard to know what's real or not.  
That having been said, I'll take #3 cliokchi!


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## goldenrose (Nov 15, 2010)

Kavanaru said:


> .....Now to everybody: Do you really like the "Paph niveum" plant (First Pic)? Maybe I still need learn a lot more from what a good Brachy is, but I am not really convinced with that flower at all... I think the petals are just too large for the whole flower, giving it a weird look.......


The first one is nice but no, IMO, it's not a niveum. The larger petals & elongated pouch say godefroyae to me, I'm with Rick! The consensus I get from reading the posts is none of us think either is pure niveum, both nice plants/flowers but X's. Could they both be Mystic Isle's? Mystic Isle = niveum x Greyi, Greyi = godefroyae x niveum, make sense?
Cliokchi has some gorgeous niveums but they're not typical for the species.


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## hardy (Nov 16, 2010)

Oooh, Cliokchi, those are some gorgeous niveums you have there :drool:


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## GuRu (Nov 16, 2010)

NYEric said:


> There are so many niveum, godefroyae, blah blah blah, crosses etc around it's hard to know what's real or not.
> That having been said, I'll take #3 cliokchi!


How true Eric!! But I vote for # 1!


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## Kavanaru (Dec 11, 2010)

just bringing up this thread to read your opinion... I have finally received feedback from the vendor who made the cross of my "Paph niveum 'Graue' x Self". According to him, onl ytwo other plants of this cross has bloomed so far, and the both are something in between my plant and the mother plant, being somehow not 100% niveum but also not 100% not niveum (if you understand what I mean LOL) 

ok, my question is about the mother plant (Paph niveum 'Graue') which was selfed and produced these "weird" looking plants.... do you think it is a true niveum or more "Paph Ang-Thong"? Picture below:




Paphiopedilum niveum 'Graue' by kavanaru, on Flickr - Picture shown here with authorization from the owner!


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## SlipperKing (Dec 11, 2010)

Yours and parent plant get my vote for Paph Ang-Thong


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## paphioboy (Dec 12, 2010)

Cliokchi, I'm flying to Thailand NOW..!! :drool: :drool: :drool: 

Kavanaru, your first plant reminds me of my angthong (now deceased)... but mine had a spotted staminode though...
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4543&highlight=angthong


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## Shiva (Dec 12, 2010)

At least, you got flowers Ramón. I've had a niveum in my collection for years and it's been sulking all along. Grows a new leaf, lose an old leaf. Far from a reluctant bloomer and more like a reluctant grower. How do you grow these, everybody?


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## chrismende (Dec 12, 2010)

Ramon's plant is lovely, no matter what it is! I'd be very, very happy to host it here! And Cliokchi, those linebred niveum are stunning.


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## chrismende (Dec 12, 2010)

Does "Graue" mean Greyii auf Deutsch?


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## Kavanaru (Dec 13, 2010)

chrismende said:


> Does "Graue" mean Greyii auf Deutsch?



No, it has nothing to do with Greyii... "Graue" is the name of the town, where this nursery is located.

"Graue" also means "grey"


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## Bolero (Dec 13, 2010)

Lovely flowers, thanks for sharing.


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## Kavanaru (Dec 13, 2010)

SlipperKing said:


> Yours and parent plant get my vote for Paph Ang-Thong



Yes, that's also my opinion. The parent plants is actually Paph Ang-thong, but one of those tending more towards the Paph niveum end of the gradient... once selfed, you can get any possible results within this gradient: niveum > Greyi > godefroyae...


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## labskaus (Dec 13, 2010)

Ramón, you've got a nice ang-thong there, I guess. And Hilmars pic of the parent "Graue" shows that his wife Anja is an excellent grower 

Cliokchis niveums are untypical, but nonetheless they are mouthwatering!


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## Kavanaru (Dec 13, 2010)

labskaus said:


> Ramón, you've got a nice ang-thong there, I guess. And Hilmars pic of the parent "Graue" shows that his wife Anja is an excellent grower



Thanks! 

By the way, that plant is not grown by Hilmar's wife.. The plant actually does not belong to Hilmar but a "good friend of him", who let him self it and get the seeds (acc. to Hilmar's communication!), but yes, this friend is an excellent grower...  the plant looks great, as well as all the plants around it!


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## labskaus (Dec 13, 2010)

Kavanaru said:


> Thanks!
> 
> By the way, that plant is not grown by Hilmar's wife.. The plant actually does not belong to Hilmar but a "good friend of him", who let him self it and get the seeds (acc. to Hilmar's communication!), but yes, this friend is an excellent grower...  the plant looks great, as well as all the plants around it!



I think I know who you're talking about and can confirm that this person knows his Paphs.


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## Kavanaru (Dec 13, 2010)

labskaus said:


> I think I know who you're talking about and can confirm that this person knows his Paphs.


You say that... I have no clue about that person  but something interesting I've learned after receiving the picture from Hilmar, and of course inquiring about several things, was the growing of "rot sensible" plants (e.g. Brachypetalum) in ceramic pots. Apparently, both the owner of Paph. neveum 'Graue' and Hilmar itself, have seen a good improvement in their plants when grown in ceramic pots.


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## Erythrone (Dec 13, 2010)

Ramon, ceramic pot or clay pot? what I see on the picture looks like clay.


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## Kavanaru (Dec 13, 2010)

oops! yes, that's what I mean.. clay pots!


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## smartie2000 (Dec 13, 2010)

interesting I shall try the clay pots as well then...
Seems everything that I rot does better in clay!


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## Erythrone (Dec 13, 2010)

Me too....


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