# Noid …any ideas?



## PaphLover (Nov 26, 2015)

Bought this in spike, not fully opened yet, but curious about its species (oh lordy, is that the correct terminology?) if at all identifiable by the experts.

http://imageshack.com/a/img908/333/gr9e2O.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img905/9271/u1XKZj.jpg


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## SlipperFan (Nov 26, 2015)

It's not a species -- it is a hybrid. It's called a complex Paph. hybrid because in it's background are at least 3 species. 

Pretty color. And the flower should last a long time.


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## troy (Nov 26, 2015)

Very nice Complex paph!!!


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## PaphLover (Nov 27, 2015)

Thanks SlipperFan and troy.

SlipperFan: what would have been a better way to pose the question? [I like to learn and want to communicate properly on this site.] 
I did figure it was a hybrid, but was wondering whether it resembled others enough to identify some characteristics of those hybrids. For instance, does it resemble a 'bulldog' type enough to be called one even though it doesn't have the spotting on the dorsal? 

I read quite a bit, but don't have a botanical background and the technical terminology, for me, can get a bit overwhelming to read and to use properly.


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## PaphMadMan (Nov 27, 2015)

It certainly has "bulldogs" in its ancestry, and I would include it among them. It could even have a classic spotted type as a parent, even both parents, or among its siblings so I'm not at all sure a distinction could be made. Would triplets be in different families just because one is blonde, one redhead and one brunette? I'm sure others might disagree, but the only difference here from a spotted bulldog is the proportion of various species in its ancestry or a chance combination of color genes. It appears to show more color influence from the species Paph charlesworthii, but most spotted bulldogs have that species among their ancestors too. It is definitely a bulldog in form.

But it is clearly a hybrid. The species concept is not always a simple thing, but a species must be a naturally occurring form that breeds true for certain key characteristics originally defined by a specific published description. This has characteristics not found in any naturally occurring form.

Perhaps your question could have been simply "what type of Paph is this?" and perhaps also "does it resemble any particular species?". The exact phrasing doesn't matter. It started a useful conversation. If the definition of bulldog Paph depends on spotting, then at times you must distinguish between sibling plants from one seedpod based on a continuous variation in spots. Even a single plant might change definition from one flower to the next. That doesn't seem useful, but some might insist on spots anyway. Welcome to the wonderful world of slipper orchids.


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## Happypaphy7 (Nov 27, 2015)

I'm with you.
Bulldog covers any of these types of paph hybrids regardless of color.


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## troy (Nov 27, 2015)

It's a nice paph, keep the humidity at 70 percent around it, the bloom looks a bit dry


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## PaphLover (Nov 27, 2015)

Thank you all, especially PaphMadMan! Excellent information. And those were MUCH better ways to phrase the question. 

So now, where do I find great sources that list the species and the "key characteristics originally defined by a specific published description" so that I can begin to keep up with you experts when you discuss why a bloom is show-worthy or an excellent display of the species? Are there comprehensive sites that list the majority or all of the species and their descriptions? 

Thanks for the help!!!


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## Happypaphy7 (Nov 27, 2015)

There are some books, and monthly (Orchids) or quarterly (Orchid Digest) magazines you can subscribe to. Often, they will contain pictures or articles dedicated to paphiopedilums of different types.
These magazines also cover awarded plants and their photos on a yearly basis if I understand correctly.

Below is the link to a website with basic but helpful informations on many different species.
It will have photos or paintings of each species, brief introduction on their discoveries or any historically significant informations, habitat info, and major primary hybrids (primary hybrids are plants resulting from crossing two different natural species) involving said species and their photos.
You might want to visit and have a look. It has a lot of information for you to enjoy.

http://www.slipperorchids.info/paphdatasheets/index.html

Of course, you can search within this forum or just google any specific species or hybrids of interest, and there will usually be quite a bit of informations you can find that way also.

Have fun!

Oh, and regarding the awards which many people here regard very important (and it is especially so if you want to breed these plants, or if your goal and focus of the hobby is getting awards) but not to me necessarily. Size as well as shape of the flowers matter. 
There are also awards given for overall excellent culture. These are given to the plants of good size with many flowers AND in great conditions. 

For paphiopedilums, the general rule is that the bigger the flower, and flatter & fuller in overall shape, the better in the world of awards. 
For bulldogs (like your flower posted here), almost perfect round ball shape and very big size are considered most desirable. 

Then, there are other criteria that are highly subjective such as coloring of the flowers and such. 
I'm sure other members can tell you more on this as I care not too much about awards. I value what I like, not what others think is good.
When you look at photos of awarded flowers on publications and attending shows if you can, you will soon catch up on the idea and develop an eye for what is considered good.


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## PaphLover (Nov 28, 2015)

Thanks Happypaphy7! That is a good site with just the info I was looking for.

Really appreciate the expertise here and everyone's willingness to share his/her knowledge.

So much to learn!!!! 
So much less time to simply stare adoringly at the blooms. :|


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## PaphMadMan (Nov 28, 2015)

A few other websites you may want to become familiar with... Though not slipper orchid specific they are resources you should be aware of.

orchidspecies.com - pictures, descriptions and habitat information and more for most cultivated orchid species

aos.org - American Orchid Society - If you have any interest in judging standards that is the source, but lots more too.

rhs.org.uk - Royal Horticultural Society - For registration of orchid hybrids this is the source, with a searchable database of hybrid names (look for orchid register) to find parentage and vice versa. But much more you may also find useful.

orchidwiz.com - If you stay with orchids and find yourself spending so much time looking for information that it limits time with your plants, consider OrchidWiz . Not free, a database program you purchase, but the most comprehensive source there is for photos of species and hybrids, cultural and habitat information, hybrid parentage, and much more. No, they do not pay me to say that.


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## PaphLover (Nov 28, 2015)

Thanks Kirk! Great sites. Orchid care is a nonstop learning process. Thank goodness it's so interesting.

(I was kidding about not being able to stare incessantly at the orchids. …I think.  )


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