# Phragmipedium dalessandroi and Phrag besseae



## Evergreen (Jul 14, 2008)

This is my Phrag dalessandroi, bought this one in March from Ecuagenera; It was bare root but in good shape (an old, bloomed growth (with that yellow leaf in a photo), and a new one). I didn’t expected it to bloom so soon, because the new growth is way smaller than old one, but I’m very happy, coz I have never seen any in bloom and this will be my first ever phrag in bloom  next to Phrag dalessandroi is Phrag. besseae from Ecuagenera too. This one came with 2 new growths, and now I see a little sheath coming up on both of them  

Anyway here is a pic from month ago (Phrag dalessandroi on the left)




And here the pics I took today(Phrag dalessandroi on the right)


 
Can't wait to see the flower




They both potted in coconut husk chips, and on top of the pot is live sphagnum moss (here is phrag. besseae)




I grow them on south window, water with rainwater every other day, int temps.


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## likespaphs (Jul 14, 2008)

groovy!


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## goldenrose (Jul 14, 2008)

:clap:Way to go! We look forward to seeing the flower too!


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## NYEric (Jul 14, 2008)

Very good progress.


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## Evergreen (Jul 26, 2008)

If the pics are too big, just say and i will resize them.
I love this one  Don’t know if it’s a real Phrag dalessandroi or not, what do you guys think? The new growth is close to the old one, so no stolons. BTW this is my first phrag in flower and it’s very cute  Now i want more phrags from section Micropetalum...
pics is taken with flash:











in natural light and no flash:


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## paphioboy (Jul 26, 2008)

Very nice, Evergreen...  I've been wanting to see the difference between dalessandroi and besseae but I'm still not sure how exactly they differ... I've heard that dalessandroi can produce large multiple branched spikes...


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## ORG (Jul 27, 2008)

*Kyle *has described and shown the differences very clear in another thread on the pages of another forum.
Perhaps e can show it again here or look to the following page

http://www.slipperorchidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4136&highlight=dalessandroi


Best greetings

Olaf


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## paphioboy (Jul 27, 2008)

Thanks for the link, Olaf...  but its not like I'll be able to get a besseae or a dalessandroi anytime soon...


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## Evergreen (Jul 27, 2008)

Thank you very much Olaf, I read that topic a year ago, but could not find it then I need it  Now I saved everything in my pc. I think it’s real Phrag dalessandroi reading Kyle's thread, everything looks right, except mine do not have branched inflorescent, but maybe because its not a big plant yet, I got it in March bare root, so maybe next year the plant will be stronger and I will get bigger branched inflorescent.


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## Rick (Jul 27, 2008)

Evergreen. The branching good very well have to do with the age and stability of the plant.

I have a richteri (amazonica) that for the first few years did not have a branching inflorescens. This year its branching like crazy.


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## Rick (Jul 27, 2008)

ORG said:


> *Kyle *has described and shown the differences very clear in another thread on the pages of another forum.
> Perhaps e can show it again here or look to the following page
> 
> http://www.slipperorchidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4136&highlight=dalessandroi
> ...



Do you think these differences warrant species status rather than variety? The range of morphology differences in some of the Vietnamese Paph species is considerably greater than the difference between besseae and dalessandroi.


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## Evergreen (Jul 27, 2008)

Rick said:


> Do you think these differences warrant species status rather than variety? The range of morphology differences in some of the Vietnamese Paph species is considerably greater than the difference between besseae and dalessandroi.


 Rick, look what Olaf has said about that here :
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3037&highlight=Phrag+dalessandroi&page=3


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## Rick (Jul 27, 2008)

Evergreen said:


> Rick, look what Olaf has said about that here :
> http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3037&highlight=Phrag+dalessandroi&page=3



I remember this thread now, and it was a good balanced argument. As pointed out at one point in the thread, the difference between varietal vs species status is subjective, and his guidelines for separation are well defined.

This being said, these differences are based on an examination on a very limited number of plants not observed in-situ. Given how close they are otherwise, I would bet that in the wild you will find a continuum of "true" besseae" to "true" dalessandroi, which would just be one smeary variable species. This always seems to happen when folks like McCook or Averyanov get to exploring the jungle. The use of the word "true" versus "type" bugs me since the only way to verify "true" is to have perfect documentation of the jungle collected plant.

Given the present state of knowledge the differences justify keeping the genes separate with exceptional documentation. But I suspect that folks will be turning up with slightly out of Type form plants, and getting accused of muddying up the gene pool with illicit hybrids.


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## NYEric (Jul 28, 2008)

Yay dalessandroi! You knew I was going to say that, right!?


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## cnycharles (Jul 28, 2008)

the suspense was killing me


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