# Paph. rungsuriyanum primary crosses



## Drorchid (May 26, 2016)

Ok, I want to do a poll. If you were lucky enough to have a blooming Paph. rungsuriyanum in your collection (other than selfing or sibbing it), what would be the first primary cross that you would make with this amazing species?


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## Denver (May 26, 2016)

Not saying that this is the first cross for sure, but the first multifloral I would want to see crossed with it is lowii in the hope that the petals would synergize well. I would also think that a sequential could go well with it. From your list, I guess micranthum...


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## Hien (May 26, 2016)

I just wish I have a straight rungsuriyanum species . hybrids are nice in the way that they are conformed to our expected concept of what a beautiful flower should be .
However , species have this "one of a kind" extreme look that is mesmerizing . For example , when tranlienianum just appeared on the scene , a lot of peoples trashing its look , now they realize how charming that paph really is .
on the chart above I would venture that hangianum probably makes a very good hybrid with rungsuriaynum .


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## Marco (May 26, 2016)

My vote would be hangianum. I think the petals would be very interesting.


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## gonewild (May 26, 2016)

With thaianum to make tiny plants with strange flowers.


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## JAB (May 26, 2016)

Damn.... Lance beat me to the punch! 
Good call Denver!
Any good sources for a rung?


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## NYEric (May 26, 2016)

Niveum, hangianum, then armeniacum.


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## SlipperKing (May 26, 2016)

You guys are all OFF! The first cross has to be venustum:evil:


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## Silvan (May 26, 2016)

I would also say with hangianum. But mostly because the hang has solid leaf and the leaf pattern on the rung might transfer to the progeny. Also, since hangianum is a slow grower it's better to make the cross sooner than later.



JAB said:


> Damn.... Lance beat me to the punch!
> Good call Denver!
> Any good sources for a rung?



The plant's illegal dude.


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## troy (May 26, 2016)

I agree with rick, venustrum


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## MorandiWine (May 27, 2016)

Just to keep the purple color going: lowii, tigrinum, hirsutissimum and for sheer shock and awe gigantifolium.


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## Bjorn (May 27, 2016)

canhii


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## troy (May 27, 2016)

A cross with canhii would make the flower 70 °/. Staminode


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## valenzino (May 27, 2016)

I'll try immediately crosses with maudiae type flowers or similar... a x Wood Wonder will be very interesting...

Also a x leucochilum(i'm shure already been done...) to have fast hot growers...

all crosses will be interesting though....


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## Bjorn (May 27, 2016)

second thought; micranthum album?


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## JAB (May 27, 2016)

Why is it illegal... dude?


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## Silvan (May 27, 2016)

JAB said:


> Why is it illegal... dude?



'cause all plants offer are still wild collected, Bruh. 
I think it's still the same for canhii.
Anywho, I think that most of the collectors/growers that are growing those two species got them from Achima :
http://www.achimaorchids.com


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## JAB (May 27, 2016)

So no one is having success breeding them in captivity?


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## Drorchid (May 27, 2016)

Bjorn said:


> second thought; micranthum album?



Confused?? I understand Paph. micranthum, but why micranthum album. Don't you want to intensify the colors rather than dilute them?

Robert


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## Drorchid (May 27, 2016)

JAB said:


> So no one is having success breeding them in captivity?


I am sure they are trying, but it usually takes a few years before seedlings from New species become available...

Robert


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## eggshells (May 27, 2016)




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## eggshells (May 27, 2016)

Flask are available now and he had a flask of rung x niveum. That would be interesting. Probably will look similar to fairreanum x niveum which I like.


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## PaphMadMan (May 27, 2016)

So many interesting choices, but fairrieanum first.


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## Bjorn (May 27, 2016)

Drorchid said:


> Confused?? I understand Paph. micranthum, but why micranthum album. Don't you want to intensify the colors rather than dilute them?
> 
> Robert



Will they become diluted? Nevertheless its to avoid smearing out the alredy saturated colors the outcome will likely be brownish.


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## Bjorn (May 27, 2016)

eggshells said:


> Flask are available now and he had a flask of rung x niveum. That would be interesting. Probably will look similar to fairreanum x niveum which I like.



Are they niveum crosses in that pic? Looks quite well developed?


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## eggshells (May 27, 2016)

Bjorn said:


> Are they niveum crosses in that pic? Looks quite well developed?



The pic is rungsuriyanum x sib I think.. (5 per bottle). I guess that happens when you have few plants in one flask rather than crowded? Less competition on nutrients so they grow big in flask? 



> #034 / Paph. niveum x sib "Select1"x"Select2" ขาวสตูล
> #048 / Paph. leucochilum x sib "joe467 x joe510" เหลืองตรัง
> #063 / Paph. concolor x sib "PP15 x runjuan"
> #064 / Paph. parishii x niveum เมืองกาญ x ขาวสตูล
> ...


He posted a bunch. Personally I'm drooling on the vietnamense flask and josianae x self :drool:


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## slippertalker (May 27, 2016)

I would try something like crossing it with Paph hookerae, it would retain the petal color and give a taller stem.


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## troy (May 27, 2016)

Where is this list from?


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## Bjorn (May 28, 2016)

Interesting, got some josianae from him some time ago, seedlings. They grow well and I am looking forward to see the outcome of those. So rung is in flask, what about the cousin, there seems not to be any success so far?


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## C. Rothschild (May 28, 2016)

Thaianum I think. VENUSTUm would be more interesting but it's already weird enough. In a good way though.


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## NYEric (May 28, 2016)

The plants are kind of available. They are unfortunately not legal in the USA. Niveum was my choice because it grows quickly and most of it's hybrids are attractive.


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## Earen (May 28, 2016)

I would probably vote micranthum.


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## Drorchid (Jun 2, 2016)

Earen said:


> I would probably vote micranthum.



micranthum was my choice as well 

Robert


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## NYEric (Jun 3, 2016)

:ninja: 
Hypothetically speaking; of course .


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## orchidmaven (Sep 18, 2016)

Would love to cross it with Paph. mastersianum and Paph. hookerae, would not hesitate one minute.


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## Redtwist (Sep 18, 2016)

I seem to be in a minority here, but I'd always start with rothschildianum - it has such a great track record for primary hybrids, and I think the great dorsal and petal striping on rungsuriyanum would carry through - maybe like a dollgoldi in shape though. Second choice would be the wildcard of gigantifolium, though I fear it might result in a lovely coloured but shapeless bloom. Knockout if it keeps the gig sickle petals though!


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## NYEric (Sep 19, 2016)




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## ThienNgo Le (Sep 19, 2016)

How about rungsuriyanum and canhii? Two small species would make another lovely small species.

Next year I will have about 20 Paph. rungsuriyanum available in the US.
I just got about 100 new plants in Vietnam last month. The link below is what they look like when they arrived my garden in Vietnam
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/29173536554/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/29173536434/in/dateposted-public/


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## SlipperFan (Sep 19, 2016)

That's what dreams are made of!


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## troy (Sep 20, 2016)

Was there any left in the wild after this collection? It would be a good idea to collect a handfull of good ones then breed them instead of pulling up multiple full colonies


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## ThienNgo Le (Sep 20, 2016)

troy said:


> Was there any left in the wild after this collection? It would be a good idea to collect a handfull of good ones then breed them instead of pulling up multiple full colonies



Collecting plants in Asian countries and Western countries are very different stories. A lot of people said that we have to keep them in wild but who can stay in the forest 24/24 to protect them? How many people from western come to Vietnam each year and buy them with a high price make people exploit them until they are extinct. Is that legal and protect them from extinction?


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## JAB (Sep 20, 2016)

Nothing to do with east vs. west, it has to do with greedy, scumbag asshats who desire things they do not have rights to and it all trickles from there. The guy in Vietnam trying to feed his family is no more, no less, at fault for collecting the flower then the guy in Kansas buying it on Ebay! 
Chicken vs egg.


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## Chicago Chad (Sep 20, 2016)

> The guy in Vietnam trying to feed his family is no more, no less, at fault for collecting the flower then the guy in Kansas buying it on Ebay!
> Chicken vs egg.


 :clap: Holla!


and I still vote for rung x tigrinum!


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## JAB (Sep 20, 2016)

I have heard conflicting info... rungsuriyanum is illegal technically in the US correct? 

Cheers to that Chad!


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## NYEric (Sep 20, 2016)

Don't even go there. (and very difficult to grow, don't overwater.)


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## troy (Sep 20, 2016)

Ok, chicago chad have you ever heard of growing from seed and propagating? So that.....anybody with half a brain knows that once a whole population is uprooted, it is gone from that spot forever unless they regrow from thin air


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## NYEric (Sep 20, 2016)

Ummmm, how do you legally collect the seed and harvest?


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## Chicago Chad (Sep 20, 2016)

> Ok, chicago chad have you ever heard of growing from seed and propagating? So that.....anybody with half a brain knows that once a whole population is uprooted, it is gone from that spot forever unless they regrow from thin air



Really Troy?! If you want to insult me, please do it directly. Who do you think is propagating them anyways? If you didn't know. It's the same person who received that 'illegal' plant in the first place. Without his efforts, you will most likely never have one in the future. And yes, if I buy every single app 1 paph species on ebay than I certainly encourage the behavior and the stripping continues. Occasionally, a plant may make it out of that jungle that will eventually become a Walmart and perhaps, just perhaps, you may see its offspring. I sleep fine at night, so my behavior is not my concern. Your assumptions on my knowledge of both orchids and their impacts, are another matter. 

And 'illegal' is all relative and a matter of both opinion and geography. The same can be said for cannabis, no?


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## troy (Sep 20, 2016)

What I'm saying is with a little bit of intellegance from the gatherers instead of stripping to extinction, propagate, the plants we have are from a source from the jungle far enough back. Yes I know, but it only takes a few plants or just one strong flowering plant to self it or propagate


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## Chicago Chad (Sep 20, 2016)

> What I'm saying is with a little bit of intellegance from the gatherers instead of stripping to extinction, propagate, the plants we have are from a source from the jungle far enough back. Yes I know, but it only takes a few plants or just one strong flowering plant to self it or propagate



I think I can accept that as an apology. oke:

Perhaps you should also consider that the ones stripping the plants usually have no means of artificial propagation. That has and will involve, bending of the rules to incorporate facilities that can do such work. Stripping the jungle is not an acceptable bend. Removing a few pods, in my opinion, can always suffice.


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## ThienNgo Le (Sep 20, 2016)

Chicago Chad said:


> I think I can accept that as an apology. oke:
> 
> Perhaps you should also consider that the ones stripping the plants usually have no means of artificial propagation. That has and will involve, bending of the rules to incorporate facilities that can do such work. Stripping the jungle is not an acceptable bend. Removing a few pods, in my opinion, can always suffice.



I agree with all of your comment Chicago Chad.


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## s1214215 (Mar 22, 2017)

I can tell you what has been made and we have plants of already or on the way in flask.

rungsuriyanum x maudiae
rungsuriyanum x leucochilum
rungsuriyanum x concolor
rungsuriyanum x ciliolare

I have also legally imported rungsuriyanum in flask several times in the last couple of years and we just bloomed the first from flask recently and others in spike. We tried to cross it to tigrinum, but it did not hold as we had a heatwave soon after and the pod aborted. I have documents and emails from CITES Australia to back my claim that my plants are legal.

Same goes for canhii as much as the exporting country might have changed its mind, it issued the permit and that sticks.. You cant undo a legal document. CITES Australia accepted the docs and said that much. 

Now I am waiting on the first canhii's to bloom and I will try to cross it to a rothschildianum or something similar. 

What is interesting is that canhii and rungsuriyanum nearly reach a mature plants leaf span in the flask. It is only that they are narrower. After deflasking, successive leaves get wider.


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## fibre (Mar 22, 2017)

s1214215 said:


> I can tell you what has been made and we have plants of already or on the way in flask.
> 
> rungsuriyanum x maudiae
> rungsuriyanum x leucochilum
> ...



So interesting! I'm quite curious to see the results!
Did you use the _rungsuriyanum _as the pod parent every time?


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## JAB (Mar 22, 2017)

Jealous. Would love to have one of these species.


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## NYEric (Mar 22, 2017)

You can undo legal documents. Read Orchid Fever.


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## s1214215 (Mar 23, 2017)

NYEric said:


> You can undo legal documents. Read Orchid Fever.



Never read it. No desire to ever do so. 

To undo a legal document will depend how much money someone/a government wants to throw at the matter and whether or not the other country accepts the outcome. In this case, several countries are involved, and I don't think they will wan to waste the cash making lawyers richer. Sovereignty is a wonderful thing in that it lets one country flip the bird to another if it wants to ignore their wishes. oke:

In my case, CITES in Thailand changed its mind and tried to recind my document. CITES in Australia as recent as January this year send me verifiable documentation that says they still hold that document as valid. In the sage words of Marsheila 'Tough Titties." It holds here and they are not gonna get it changed it would seem.


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## s1214215 (Mar 23, 2017)

fibre said:


> So interesting! I'm quite curious to see the results!
> Did you use the _rungsuriyanum _as the pod parent every time?



It doesnt work well as a pod parent


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## fibre (Mar 23, 2017)

s1214215 said:


> It doesnt work well as a pod parent



Ok, thanks. 
So you did all four crosses with the rungsuriyanum as pollen parent, right?


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## Ozpaph (Mar 23, 2017)

can you post a photo of your flowering rung?


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## s1214215 (Mar 23, 2017)

Not in bloom anymore, and I didnt take pics of the last one. When I bloom one again I will. But as a friend who helped import the last flasks shared some out, perhaps they will beat me to it as they are a much better grower than me 

Frankly, the cats out of the bag, and that's what matters.


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## MorandiWine (Mar 23, 2017)

s1214215 said:


> Not in bloom anymore, and I didnt take pics of the last one. When I bloom one again I will. But as a friend who helped import the last flasks shared some out, perhaps they will beat me to it as they are a much better grower than me
> 
> Frankly, the cats out of the bad, and thats what matters.





You really bloomed a plant and didnt snap a photo.......? 


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## JAB (Mar 23, 2017)

What Mori said


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## s1214215 (Mar 25, 2017)

Well I did.. I just wasn't happy with the photos, and I have seen them before. So I did not keep them.. I will post a pic later of one a friend has bloomed.


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## s1214215 (Mar 25, 2017)

This is a friends plant, bloomed from a plant ex-flask. 






One of my seedlings. You can see how the flask leaves were narrower and the new leaves ex-flask are getting wider on this plant.


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## JAB (Mar 25, 2017)

Gorgeous! 
Let us know when we can get one legally in the US!


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## s1214215 (Mar 26, 2017)

From what I am told, I have to get CITES on my plants that I have here from flask and export them to the USA. Apparently flasks are not as likely to be accepted. I dont know why, but that is what one of your top Paph nurserymen told me.


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## Chicago Chad (Mar 27, 2017)

lovely plant and killer roots :drool:


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