# a guessing game



## Ron-NY (Feb 27, 2007)

Okay folks...here is a game for you to play for a few days.

Some of you might have heard  the first kovachii hybrid is about to bloom. It is Glen Decker's kovachii X Saint Ouen. I have been following it's progress with pictures of the bud developement and Glen has given me permission to post pictures of it once the flower is open. It is partially opened today so i should have pics for you before the weekend. In the interim let's play guess what the 'brid will look like. 
Here is a pic of a kovachii followed by a pic of Saint Ouen...Have fun guessing!


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## gonewild (Feb 27, 2007)

You have to give us one clue......
Is the bud big or little?


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## Kyle (Feb 27, 2007)

I think it will have a shorter, fatter pouch. Fatter petals, the dorsal will be the same. Flower will be smaller then PK, much bigger then st ouen. The color will be dark. Or marron.

What the first cross glen is going to make with it?

I'm not to familliar with St. Ouen, but I suspect it will increase the number of flowers the hybrids will have. I predict 5 to 7 befroe it calls it quits. First bloom seedling after all...

Kyle


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## kentuckiense (Feb 27, 2007)

Somewhere in the middle...


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## Ron-NY (Feb 27, 2007)

Kyle said:


> What the first cross glen is going to make with it?
> 
> Kyle


 I am not sure but I have looked around the greenhouse to see what was in bloom. There is a wonderful schlimii from the Eric Young Foundation, a nice besseae and a few quality brids. I have a Schroederae (Sedenii 'Penn Valley' AM/AOS ) in bud, that might be nice!!


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## kentuckiense (Feb 27, 2007)

I vote for schlimii!


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## Ernie (Feb 27, 2007)

It'll be a hideously colored thing with ridiculous form all lasting about 25 minutes from first opening to fade.  I'd mix and match with some other micropetalums too- suprised no one's mentioned fischeri. 

-Ernie


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## Heather (Feb 27, 2007)

Hmm, well, I know one of the two opening had a smaller bud than the other. I think it's going to be on the red/magenta side colorwise. Fatter petals, larger pouch perhaps? I wonder if/how the stripes will come through from St. Ouen. Size wise I am going to guess Jason Fischer size or a bit larger. 

Oh, I think flower count will be lower than what Kyle guessed. 3 buds at most. 

Ron, that is a photo of the actual St. Ouen used, yes? 

I am so excited to see this cross!!!!!


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## kentuckiense (Feb 27, 2007)

Heather said:


> I am so excited to see this cross!!!!!



Agreed. This is my favorite cross that CJM made.


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## Heather (Feb 27, 2007)

kentuckiense said:


> Agreed. This is my favorite cross that CJM made.



Me too, and I just got one!


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## Ron-NY (Feb 27, 2007)

Heather said:


> Ron, that is a photo of the actual St. Ouen used, yes?



No it isn't. The one he made it with is redder than this. This is the 4N he has on his site for sale.


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## Kyle (Feb 27, 2007)

Heather said:


> Oh, I think flower count will be lower than what Kyle guessed. 3 buds at most.



I'm not to famillar with St Ouen, but I assume it is a sequnetial that makes 7 or so flowers. Hopefully that gets passed on.

AS for what crosses to make, is the schlimii from EYOF tetraploid? Crossing with fisherii would be great for color and shape, but I think it would shrink the flowers. Sargentianum might intensify the colors like it did for MDC.

Or cross it to MDC and make a supersized Jason Fisher with an unique color.

Kyle


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## kentuckiense (Feb 27, 2007)

Kyle said:


> Or cross it to MDC and make a supersized Jason Fisher with an unique color.



I like this idea.


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## slippertalker (Feb 27, 2007)

My guess is that the size will be intermediate between the parents as the genetics suggest. Depending on the actual size of the parents, the geometric mean should be a spread of 11-12 cm. The color should be interesting, I would guess something in the range between rose red to fuschia to magenta, with the pouch darker than the petals.


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## ohio-guy (Feb 27, 2007)

I guess a darker more red toned and smaller Pk. It is really kind of exciting to see this unfolding before our eyes isn't it? 
And by the way.....that morphing software is so cool! Have you tried it on other known crosses to see if it works giving recognizable results? why not use it for fun and cross impossible plants like a Pk x mexi!


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## SlipperFan (Feb 27, 2007)

What fun anticipating! I purchased one of this cross from Glen, but it doesn't look near blooming size yet to me!!

I think kovachii will dominate shape and color, but petals will be lower and a little pointy.


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## Jon in SW Ohio (Feb 27, 2007)

Whatever it looks like, I'd bet my bottom dollar it has a bad case of mahonitis.

I can't wait to see it!!!!

Jon


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## Heather (Feb 27, 2007)

Dot - I think Glen's that are in spike are from the first - unreleased - hybrids. We have the second, released versions. One more year for us.


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## Ron-NY (Feb 27, 2007)

SlipperFan said:


> What fun anticipating! I purchased one of this cross from Glen, but it doesn't look near blooming size yet to me!!
> 
> I think kovachii will dominate shape and color, but petals will be lower and a little pointy.


Mine isn't blooming sized yet either but these plants are not humongous. They have 4 mature leaves. I have 2 mature leaves and my plant is working on #3


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Feb 27, 2007)

This is like seeing one of those "What if they mated" skits on Conan......Eric


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## gonewild (Feb 27, 2007)

Just so it does not look like wallisii ! :sob: 
:evil:


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## NYEric (Feb 28, 2007)

Better that it doesn't look like boisserianum!


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## labskaus (Feb 28, 2007)

Actually, I'd self/sib it. Just to bring out the pk-sized better-than-St.Ouen-shaped flower with a colour that is just on the edge to kitsch which I don't expect to turn up in the first generation. F2 will do.

Cheers, Carsten


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## NYEric (Feb 28, 2007)

I would also put w/ MDC or dalessandroi to get a guarenteed branching plant.


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## gonewild (Feb 28, 2007)

Breed it? The poor thing has not even opened yet! What ever happened to let it save it strength and grow? I bet all you guys have puppy mills in your basements too. :rollhappy: 

That said I would use it with something that has short spikes of round multiple sequential flowers on a compact plant. Don't worry about flower size and color that will come later.


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## kentuckiense (Feb 28, 2007)

gonewild said:


> Breed it? The poor thing has not even opened yet! What ever happened to let it save it strength and grow? I bet all you guys have puppy mills in your basements too. :rollhappy:



I was assuming they would use it for pollen, not pod.


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## Kyle (Feb 28, 2007)

Using the pollen was my thought. 

With some much genetics from the microsepelum (sp?) group, the time to carry a capsule would be pretty short, 100 days or so. So I would suspect it wouldn't stress the plant to death the have it carry one capsule...

Crossing it back to Kovackii would be good too. Flowers would look more like kovachii and the seedlings could have some hybrid vigor.

What will the name be? Wossner St. Kov ?


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## gonewild (Feb 28, 2007)

Kyle said:


> Using the pollen was my thought.



You guys are so conscientious. 



> With some much genetics from the microsepelum (sp?) group, the time to carry a capsule would be pretty short, 100 days or so. So I would suspect it wouldn't stress the plant to death the have it carry one capsule...



Just a small puppy mill.  



> Crossing it back to Kovackii would be good too. Flowers would look more like kovachii and the seedlings could have some hybrid vigor.



Don't you read the forum? How is Glen supposed to back cross it to kovachii? What are you doing trying to trap him? oke: 



> What will the name be? Wossner St. Kov ?



It should be 'Pip Pip Hurray'


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## Kyle (Feb 28, 2007)

gonewild said:


> Just a small puppy mill.



Everybody likes puppies...oke: 



gonewild said:


> Don't you read the forum? How is Glen supposed to back cross it to kovachii? What are you doing trying to trap him? oke:



Of course not. Just day dreaming.

Kyle


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## labskaus (Mar 1, 2007)

On a second guess, I think that flower with the far-too-large floppy petals and the small crumbled pouch will not be worth breeding with, because that dull brown colour that comes in streaks and patches on the off-white background is really unattractive oke: 

I hope not.

Carsten


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## Jason Fischer (Mar 1, 2007)

I think it will look awesome, nuff said


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## gonewild (Mar 1, 2007)

Jason Fischer said:


> I think it will look awesome, nuff said


Never nuff said! oke:


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## li'l frog (Mar 1, 2007)

If any of you subscribe to Orchid Guide Digest, there is a picture posted there since this afternoon. I like it.


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## Heather (Mar 1, 2007)

Will link this thread in here also...
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2836


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## labskaus (Mar 2, 2007)

I saw it at OGD, and that one's gorgeous! It is one of the most beautiful Phrags I've ever seen. Very much exceeds my expectations, at least.


Cheers, Carsten


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