# brown spots on my 'pam x grace'



## bwester (Jul 2, 2006)

Anyone know what I should do? I seriously dont want to lose this plant, I just got it from matt last week. Its the only plant having this problem in my greenhouse. I sprayed twice with physan, but nothing. I'm at a loss for ideas.....


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## Heather (Jul 2, 2006)

Ugh, that looks suspiciously like rot to me. Any nasty scent? Is it "wet" or "dry"
Did you just put it in S/H? 

Incidentally my 'Pam' x 'Grace' developed a quick and dirty case of Erwinia a couple weeks ago - also recently put into S/H. Lost a new growth and several leaves. 

If others agree, I'd try to remove any of the effected areas. I treated with cinnnamon post removal and made sure it wasn't too deeply potted, upped the airflow, etc. and have since kept an eye on things and it has stabilized.


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## adiaphane (Jul 2, 2006)

It looks like rot to me, too. I would do what Heather says... remove all the affected area right away.


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## bwester (Jul 2, 2006)

I had just potted it in s/h. It had new roots and seemed like a good time to do it.


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## Heather (Jul 2, 2006)

I'd chalk it up more to the moisture and high humidity/low airflow factor than the fact that it was in S/H. I just thought it was interesting that I had the exact same issue with the same plant. Weird coincidence. I was pretty surprised as I've never had any rot trouble with any of the phils (actually the only rot issues I've had have been with a lowii and a couple besseaes) and this came on like very suddenly. Why I try to check my plants on a daily basis.


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## likespaphs (Jul 2, 2006)

make sure you don't have any mealybugs in the leaf bases, either
they'll make a plant do that, if not something similar to that


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## Jmoney (Jul 2, 2006)

yikes, pull off ALL affected leaves immediately and treat it with some anti-rot substance. I bought "stoprot" which is bordeaux mixture in lanolin for this exact purpose. every year at the start of the nasty hot days of summer I see this on a couple plants...if you catch it early you're usually OK but it seems that the plants are more rot-prone in the future as well (or perhaps they were just more rot prone to begin with). make sure to blast the fan when it gets hot and humid.


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## Heather (Jul 2, 2006)

Jmoney said:


> every year at the start of the nasty hot days of summer I see this on a couple plants..



I have another plant that I have been watching the last couple days - I just got it also, just put it in S/H (great root growth) and Friday noticed a couple spots. Cinnamon'd them, and have been keeping a CLOSE eye on it. Tonite I got home and it was hot and humid, and no one had put the A/C in that room and the rot was still spreading on the outside edges of the leaf, so I just snipped it. My airflow is great - 2 fans, windows open wide, but conditions are clearly right for rot. It is an interesting learning experience!

Perhaps being in a box with no airflow for a few days, coupled with a change in potting and environment, paired with hot humid weather just makes these plants ripe for this sort of thing?


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## bwester (Jul 2, 2006)

Jmoney said:


> yikes, pull off ALL affected leaves immediately and treat it with some anti-rot substance. I bought "stoprot" which is bordeaux mixture in lanolin for this exact purpose. every year at the start of the nasty hot days of summer I see this on a couple plants...if you catch it early you're usually OK but it seems that the plants are more rot-prone in the future as well (or perhaps they were just more rot prone to begin with). make sure to blast the fan when it gets hot and humid.




Almost ALL of the leaves have a spot or two  Do you think physan will arrest it?


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## Heather (Jul 2, 2006)

I would say (and I'd love to have others weigh in - I am NOT expert in these areas!!) that if the spots are near the base (crown) of the plant, they should probably come off. If there are spots farther up on the leaves, and you can snip a little ways below them, but still save the leaf, that's what I'd do. 

If the rot gets into the crown...well, you need to really try to keep that from happening.


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## Jmoney (Jul 2, 2006)

brown at the base with a funky smell = emergency

brown spots, if they look well-contained, probably can be cut out and treated.

another warning--once I forgot to water for a few days and the s/h reservoir dried out...when I got back a number of plants had basal rotted. the air circulation was ok, so I figured that dry roots = BAD in the summer.

I used to think that I could blast a fan during the 90 degree days...but that didn't prevent rot. maybe it's heat + humidity, so now I actually leave the a/c on when the forecasted high exceeds 85 or so. it's costing me too...


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## Marco (Jul 2, 2006)

Hey Blake, Heather and Jason, just wondering what was the avg max temperatures and humidity around your growing area when you found the spotting?


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## bwester (Jul 2, 2006)

Marco said:


> Hey Blake, Heather and Jason, just wondering what was the avg max temperatures and humidity around your growing area when you found the spotting?



The swamp cooler in my greenhouse kicks on at 85 and keeps it below that.


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## Jmoney (Jul 2, 2006)

when it reaches 90 outside, in my room it might get to 87 and 60% humidity. maybe even warmer right next to the windows. maybe if my plants were more scattered they would be ok but you know how crowded they get when you have too many...


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## Heather (Jul 3, 2006)

85° and 60-75% humidity, thereabouts.


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## Marco (Jul 3, 2006)

Thanks everyone  

Blake any news on the phil? i hope its alright.


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## gore42 (Jul 4, 2006)

bwester,

I only just noticed this thread this morning... thats really too bad. It sounds like you've already gotten the same advice I'd have given you for the plant... cut off anything that looks affected, and soak the plant in an anti-microbial solution for 5 or 10 minutes, and give it lots of air movement.

As you know, that was the last 'Pam' x 'Grace' that I had, but if you can't save it, let me know, and I'm sure we can work something out  

- Matt Gore


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## bwester (Jul 4, 2006)

Thanks Matt, I've been alternating peroxide and physan treatments and crossing my fingers.


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## Rick (Jul 4, 2006)

I've been having allot more problems with erwinia this year than in the past too.

Been having a slow battle with rot since I repotted my phili,so I've been going through Physan and cinnamen too, and things seem to be stabilizing.

But I've pretty much lost a micranthum and armeniacum. Down to just some new growths.


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## bwester (Jul 6, 2006)

I think its finally slowed down. I increased the airflow and treated with physan and peroxide. Thanks everyone for the input.


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## Rick (Jul 7, 2006)

I saw that J Fisher from OL had suggested Erythromycin or sulfa drugs for axial rots in phrags, so I did an internet searh on "plant antibiotics" and came up with PlantMedia [email protected]

I talked to Dr. Walhi (strong Indian accent, guessing at the spelling), who was quite familiar with Erwinia. Most intriguing was the life history acount, that orchids during the fast growth season (spring /summer) produce a lysing enzyme at the leaf axials to allow the new growth to get through. This produces a favourable environment for erwinia, and it cues in on this enzyme production.

I guess this environment is also low in oxygen since it smells like erwinia is a fermenter. So good airflow is crucial.

Dr Wally's first antibiotic choice would be Timentin if it wasn't so expensive, and has a huge order backlog, otherwise Carbenicillin and Cefotaxime were his next best choices. 5gr quantities should cover use on several plants, and the price was in the $50 to $60 range in this quantity.


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## bwester (Jul 7, 2006)

Ask him if foodgrade neomyacin would work. They use it on cheese and hot dogs to prevent mold. I can get that relatively cheap in my line of work.


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## Rick (Jul 8, 2006)

bwester said:


> Ask him if foodgrade neomyacin would work. They use it on cheese and hot dogs to prevent mold. I can get that relatively cheap in my line of work.




Erwinea is a gram - bacteria, so if neomycin has good gram - capacity it could work. The general antibiotic lists for plants was quite extensive, and allot seemed to have good uptake through the roots for systemic use. 

There is a fair amount of info on the PlantMedia website, not only antibiotics, but growth hormones and all kinds of wacky stuff. Check it out.


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## Jmoney (Jul 11, 2006)

neomycin is an aminoglycoside so it should cover gram negatives well. unless you have HOSPITAL ACQUIRED erwinea that is panresistant. bleah.


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## TADD (Jul 11, 2006)

Ask Heather what I would do to it. I throw plants away like that immediately. I do not feel that a sick plant is worth my time or space. I have even thrown away a fairrieanum... I know... I know.... I am pretty ruthless after working in the greenhouse and seeing how things like this can spread I err on the safe side. If you really want to try to be safe maybe Phyton 27? I am not sure. Good luck!


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