# Substrate for cypripedium



## Hakone (Dec 26, 2011)

I am preparing a substrate for my Christmas gifts









Seramis + Perlite + Sand + Clay

Sektion Macrantha

----------------------------------------------------------------








Seramis

Sektion Obtusiflora

-----------------------------------------------------------------








Seramis + Perlite

Sektion Trigonopedia

------------------------------------------------------------------









Kyriu + Perlite

Sektion Acaulia


Does anyone have any other recommendation .


----------



## tocarmar (Dec 26, 2011)

The mixes all look good. Depending on species/hybrids , seedlings/mature plants I would mix in alittle conifer pine needles or leaf tree compost depending on if they are acid lovers or not..


----------



## Lycaste53 (Dec 26, 2011)

Hakone, what material is that ´Kyriu´? Something like volkanic material, lava or basalt?
Best regards, Gina


----------



## Hakone (Dec 26, 2011)

very acidic

http://www.bonsai.co.uk/14-Litres-Japanese-Kiryu-Bonsai-Soil.html

Perlit

Perligran : grain size 0/6 or 2/6

http://www.knauf-perlite.de/industrie/perlit.html


----------



## Dido (Dec 26, 2011)

Much look with that mixes. 

But to know the section does not mean anything about soil to me. 

For the Tri kinds only Perlite and seramis didnt worked for me, but maybe you are lucky with that. 

Never forget that it depend on the origin of the plants too. 

The rest is often discussed with you especially with Acaule and you know 
what works for a lot of for us.


----------



## W. Beetus (Dec 26, 2011)

Those look like nice mixes!


----------



## NYEric (Dec 27, 2011)

Hakone said:


> I am preparing a substrate for my Christmas gifts



Thank you, I cant wait to get mine! :evil:


----------



## Hakone (Dec 27, 2011)

Hello Christoph,

Acaule

One germans grower told me , with peat ( incl. wine vinegar ) , the plant has only lived three years. In other germans breeders I have seen only one year life time.


----------



## Marc (Dec 27, 2011)

Hakone your mixes have made me curious. Based on which knowledge did you create these mixes? Is it information you took from the internet of experience from other growers? Or is there some other thought behind these mixes?


----------



## Dido (Dec 27, 2011)

Hy, 

but white peat you know is a dangerous stuff. 
But there are people who are succesfull with that. 

i do the other way a lot of growers told you with pine bark and it work great. 

I will report a section in january and I send you a photo, when I am finished. 

I only have the problem that mine have mostly no fertyl pollen any more, this is why I need pollen every year from other people. 

Think the inbreading of 3 generation made this.


----------



## Hakone (Dec 27, 2011)

Marc said:


> Hakone your mixes have made me curious. Based on which knowledge did you create these mixes? Is it information you took from the internet of experience from other growers? Or is there some other thought behind these mixes?



Based on my knowledge and experience. Pure Anorganic. In internet does not exist in this mixture.


----------



## NYEric (Dec 27, 2011)

No mention of my Xmas cyps!?


----------



## Dido (Dec 27, 2011)

NYEric said:


> No mention of my Xmas cyps!?



What did you get for Chirstmas was it a nice subtropicum or a elegans:drool::evil:


----------



## NYEric (Dec 28, 2011)

I'm still waiting for Hakone's shipment! :evil:


----------



## Silvan (Dec 28, 2011)

As anyone ever tried a mix using chabasai and haydite ?


----------



## Hakone (Dec 29, 2011)

chabasai is the best substrate for non acidophilic bonsai.


----------



## Silvan (Dec 29, 2011)

Last year I was looking for seramis to use for my mix for cyps in pot culture and couldn't find any. So I tried to find a substitute and found the chabasai that they mix with haydite for bonsai culture..but it was a real hassle to get. Was looking gypsum and diatomite, but couldn't find that either..aaargh So I ended up using small pebbles for aquarium with coarse perlite, clay pellets, chc, sand, coconut coir, gravel and some charcoal.. everything's dead except my fasciolatum... Sooo no more cyps for me!


----------



## Dido (Dec 29, 2011)

If you are searching for a substitue you have to look in car store. 
They sell a binder for oil, which have nearly the same production technique, 
In UK some people are using them, and some on the forum here too. 
Maybe this is availabel in your country.


----------



## keithrs (Dec 29, 2011)

Dido said:


> If you are searching for a substitue you have to look in car store.
> They sell a binder for oil, which have nearly the same production technique,
> In UK some people are using them, and some on the forum here too.
> Maybe this is availabel in your country.



They do add chemicals to the oil absorbent... I'm not sure if it will effect the plant or not. I'm really not sure many auto parts store carry it any more as "pig" mats are what most shops use now.


----------



## keithrs (Dec 29, 2011)

So has any one tried humus mixed with perlite and use myco teas?


----------



## Hakone (Dec 30, 2011)

Why mix it with humus ?. What effect ?


----------



## Dido (Dec 30, 2011)

Depends on your kinds of humus and how light he is. 
For some kinds I use humus, with Toresa and perilte. 
Some kinds of cyps like to grow in that kind of mdeium, but it have to stay light and fresh. .


----------



## cnycharles (Dec 30, 2011)

in some spots of upstate ny, cyps reginae and parviflorum var parv grow in flowing water filled with humus (black muck); well, very slowly percolating water


----------



## keithrs (Dec 30, 2011)

Hakone said:


> Why mix it with humus ?. What effect ?



The only reason I would use it would be for the beneficials in the humus. If you don't want the beneficials then coir is a cheaper option. I believe coir is what Orchids Limited uses to grow there Cyp. mixed with perlite.

If you use humus, You have to feed it to have the beneficials work and try not to use salt based fertilizers.


----------



## Hakone (Jan 1, 2012)

NYEric said:


> I'm still waiting for Hakone's shipment! :evil:



Hello Eric,

the pots are still empty, you must wait unfortunately for further


----------



## NYEric (Jan 1, 2012)

Well, dont forget me when they're full!


----------



## Hakone (Jan 2, 2012)

other substrates




Akadama + Perligrant




Kanuma + Perligrant






Ingredients:

Charcoal




Oystershell




Coconut Peat+Polystyrol


----------



## Marc (Jan 2, 2012)

Are you planning on dividing your cyps? Or are you expecting a big shipment of new stuff? That's a lot of substrate you have divided over those crates.


----------



## Hakone (Jan 2, 2012)

Yes, I am planning on dividing my cyps .


----------



## monocotman (Jan 2, 2012)

*dividing cyps*

Hakone,

have you divided cyps before? Have you any tips?
When I did it a couple of years ago most of the plants went backwards in the following season.
They took at least a year to recover and I was very careful, following Mr Weinert's example on his web site ( www.cypripedium.de) to the letter.
The most important thing I discovered was to keep the roots damp at all times when out of the substrate.

Regards,

David


----------



## Hakone (Jan 2, 2012)

Currently, Germany is in warm (unusual, 10 ° C, 50 ° F
), So I'll divide Cypripedium.


----------



## Lycaste53 (Jan 2, 2012)

In Munich 12°C....but be careful, there was no year without real cold winter and I´m sure, it will come


----------



## Dido (Jan 2, 2012)

Hopefully it will come. 
Have Ice packs on the formosanum and change it every 2 days, to keep them cold. 
My wife call me crazzy. 
They are calling for snow on thursday. So hope it will come


----------



## Hakone (Jan 2, 2012)

I keep cyp. passerinum in the refrigerator


----------



## Hakone (Jan 3, 2012)

PONENORCHIS GRAMINIFOLIA,


----------



## NYEric (Jan 3, 2012)

Are the ponenorchis in the fridge?


----------



## Hakone (Jan 3, 2012)

Yes


----------



## Hakone (Jan 3, 2012)

finished


----------



## NYEric (Jan 3, 2012)

I will put mine away also, thanks.


----------



## Hakone (Jan 5, 2012)

10,2 gallone Kanuma for acaule





Ingredients:


----------



## Hakone (Jan 6, 2012)




----------



## NYEric (Jan 6, 2012)

OK, I'll take one each of the brown,the red, and the white!


----------



## Hakone (Jan 9, 2012)




----------



## Marc (Jan 9, 2012)

"Interesting" pictures as in they make me curious as to what is exactly in the pots. Or can we expect a topic soon in this section:

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=3


----------



## Hakone (Jan 9, 2012)




----------



## Marc (Jan 9, 2012)

That looks good to me


----------



## Berthold (Jan 9, 2012)

Marc said:


> That looks good to me



Cypripedium hatagirea with cutted roots


----------



## Dido (Jan 9, 2012)

Maybe Hakone need the special function of this plant, 
he is asian origin.......

Tiger are more and more expensive and other animals which have this kind of 
function too. 

The blue pill is to complicated you have to read something which another person have write down. .....:evil:


----------



## NYEric (Jan 10, 2012)

!


----------



## Hakone (Feb 5, 2012)




----------



## gerhard (Feb 5, 2012)

Tai,
I admire your ingenious soil mixing techniques.:rollhappy:

For my acaules I use plain old acid sand and top it off with some pine duff. Whenever it gets to dry I water with RO water 1 gal /1 oz of apple cider.
The plants been in that soil for over 6 years.


----------



## Berthold (Feb 5, 2012)

gerhard said:


> Tai,
> I admire your ingenious soil mixing techniques.:rollhappy:
> 
> For my acaules I use plain old acid sand and top it off with some pine duff. Whenever it gets to dry I water with RO water 1 gal /1 oz of apple cider.
> The plants been in that soil for over 6 years.



Gerhard, Hakones homoeopathic mixtures are well siutable for most beginner plants.


----------



## Hakone (Feb 5, 2012)

gerhard said:


> Tai,
> I admire your ingenious soil mixing techniques.:rollhappy:
> 
> For my acaules I use plain old acid sand and top it off with some pine duff. Whenever it gets to dry I water with RO water 1 gal /1 oz of apple cider.
> *The plants been in that soil for over 6 years*.




Hi gerhard,


As I know you, *4 years* ago, you were never told me something about your acaule. Now suddenly you has acaule been *6 years*. I wonder very much.
I wish you all well.:clap:
*
Gerhard Stickroth am 17 November, 2007 :*
http://www.cypripedium.de/forum/messages/2591.html


----------



## Hakone (Feb 5, 2012)

Berthold said:


> Gerhard, Hakones homoeopathic mixtures are well siutable for most beginner plants.



Hi Berthold,

where are your photos acaule , You want me to show since 2011 :rollhappy:

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21486&page=2


----------



## Berthold (Feb 5, 2012)

Hakone said:


> Hi Berthold,
> 
> You want me to show since 2011 :rollhappy:



Your are mixing up something. I never wanted to show You anything. You killed the seedlings I donated to You.


----------



## Dido (Feb 5, 2012)

Is this your mixture of your japan soil and pumice. 
Why you use not different conc. 

Hakone you ever see missing things by others, 
we are waiting on a lot of things from you. 
At least you never showed some update of you hotei or farreri and you told you have some of themoke:
Or you never have answered our question about the pics from your friends. 

:evil:


----------



## Hakone (Feb 5, 2012)

Berthold said:


> Your are mixing up something. I never wanted to show You anything. You killed the seedlings I donated to You.




Dr. Berthold,

you search again for a partner for Your tango? :sob:


----------



## Hakone (Feb 5, 2012)

Dido said:


> Is this your mixture of your japan soil and pumice.
> Why you use not different conc.
> 
> Hakone you ever see missing things by others,
> ...



Hi Dido,

my response:

*1/- Why you use not different conc : *

Why should I use different conc. , Neudohum is for madman, they do not know what they do

*2/- Hakone you ever see missing things by others, 
we are waiting on a lot of things from you. *

I am not Gerhard nor Berthold, never, I am Hakone

*3/- At least you never showed some update of you hotei or farreri and you told you have some of them *

I have shown hotei atsumorianum , see thread " cypripedium 2011 " from me 

I will show farreri this year 2012 , when it blooms, the plant has labels farreri

*4/- Or you never have answered our question about the pics from your friends.:*

All plants with name: Hakone and Hanhrokko are my . Is not that an answer?
Will you know also about religion, sex, my friends ?Where does he live? What does he work?


----------



## Dido (Feb 5, 2012)

Sorry but you showed a lot of buds, bud never the bloom on them. 
The bloom of this hotei dont fit to the plants you showed in pots, the timespan is too long. So I think all are dead what you showed in your first posts last year. 

Did I say something about Neudohum here, for Acaule it will be not good. 
And what has that to do with my question on different conc. 

But if you do Trial you should do it in different conc and makeing notes, as you know you do it at work. So you can do it again if yoou were succesfull. 

Religion I do not want to discuss, but we are missing the answers in this 

If you think the answers of other person have to been correct we should get the answers why a lot of plants had different backgrounds


----------



## Hakone (Feb 5, 2012)

Dido said:


> Sorry but you showed a lot of buds, bud never the bloom on them.
> The bloom of this hotei dont fit to the plants you showed in pots, the timespan is too long. So I think all are dead what you showed in your first posts last year.
> 
> Did I say something about Neudohum here, for Acaule it will be not good.
> ...



Hi Dido,

my response:


*1/ - If you think the answers of other person have to been correct we should get the answers why a lot of plants had different backgrounds :*

- Why do you want to know, why a lot of plants had different backgrounds. *These plants are not mine*. Is my answer not enough ? . I do not understand the background of your question.

*2/- But if you do Trial you should do it in different conc and makeing notes, as you know you do it at work. So you can do it again if yoou were succesfull. *

- I did not recommended my conc. . I only show what I'm doing with my plants.


----------



## Hakone (Feb 5, 2012)

Berthold said:


> Your are mixing up something. I never wanted to show You anything. You killed the seedlings *I donated to You*.




*donation *would be wrong. What did you get from me, do you not remember. Are the Pleione still living.


----------



## Hakone (Feb 5, 2012)

Hi Dido,

Here are my plants

Acaule









Hotei atsumorianum

Nr.1





Nr.2


----------



## Hakone (Feb 5, 2012)

I have made this photos for NYEric


----------



## SlipperFan (Feb 5, 2012)

Beauties!


----------



## likespaphs (Feb 5, 2012)

fantastic!


----------



## JeanLux (Feb 6, 2012)

Great growing, bravo !!!! :clap: Jean


----------



## Berthold (Feb 6, 2012)

beautiful. Where can You buy such healthy plants in Germany?


----------



## Hakone (Feb 6, 2012)

Berthold said:


> beautiful. Where can You buy such healthy plants in Germany?



thank you very much , would you like to have the address . May I publish here.


----------



## Dido (Feb 6, 2012)

Hakone said:


> Hi Dido,
> 
> my response:
> 
> ...



The question was why these plants have the same backgrounds and you are telling they are from different friends, and all are the same as on the puics from Popow. This was in other threads. 

If you not want to discuss its Ok, but I saw that here in older posts you ask why it failure of your mixture this is now nearly 2 years ago when you planted seedlings in a nearly the same looking mixture, this is why I ask if you are recordijg what you do and learn from your mistakes. 

Ant the pictures of the plants seemed familiar to me. 

So I searched why I think so, this pics from you have been posted 4 years agao on another froum where you are not longer a member
Here is the Link that you remember it correct.:rollhappy:

http://forum.orchideenfreunde.eu/archive/index.php/thread-1664.html

We are all trying to imporve our culture by this discussion, so please tell not you have blooming ones when you show us so old pictures, why you did not post flowering once the last years, have search your posts, taked me quite a while to look. oke:
And about the hotei I was discussing about the noses you have posted in last Spring in pots so they cannot be the plants you have in your pics in later posts, I told you they are ill and going to go away. But why you post not such things we learn from failure too.


----------



## Berthold (Feb 6, 2012)

Dido said:


> Ant the pictures of the plants seemed familiar to me.
> 
> So I searched why I think so, this pics from you have been posted 4 years agao on another froum where you are not longer a member
> Here is the Link that you remember it correct.:rollhappy:
> ...



Dido, that's interesting.

But meanwhile I think Hakone ist familiar to all of us.


----------



## Hakone (Feb 6, 2012)

Dido said:


> The question was why these plants have the same backgrounds and you are telling they are from different friends, and all are the same as on the puics from Popow. This was in other threads.
> 
> If you not want to discuss its Ok, but I saw that here in older posts you ask why it failure of your mixture this is now nearly 2 years ago when you planted seedlings in a nearly the same looking mixture, this is why I ask if you are recordijg what you do and learn from your mistakes.
> 
> ...



Hi Dido,

I response:
*
1/- The question was why these plants have the same backgrounds and you are telling they are from different friends, and all are the same as on the puics from Popow. This was in other threads. :*

If you think that the plants from Popow's why:
- you ask me?
- you not ask Mr. Popow ?
- What do you want to achieve?

2/- *If you not want to discuss its Ok, but I saw that here in older posts you ask why it failure of your mixture this is now nearly 2 years ago when you planted seedlings in a nearly the same looking mixture, this is why I ask if you are recordijg what you do and learn from your mistakes. *

What are the plants? what is the substrate

3/-* So I searched why I think so, this pics from you have been posted 4 years agao on another froum where you are not longer a member
Here is the Link that you remember it correct.:*

I showed these photos acaule in ST 4 years ago, you can find here. What do you mean?

*See and read *

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7815


4/- *We are all trying to imporve our culture by this discussion, so please tell not you have blooming ones when you show us so old pictures, why you did not post flowering once the last years, have search your posts, taked me quite a while to look. 
And about the hotei I was discussing about the noses you have posted in last Spring in pots so they cannot be the plants you have in your pics in later posts, I told you they are ill and going to go away. But why you post not such things we learn from failure too.*

you have overslept yourself, go to the old thread, you will find my* answer*

*See and read* 

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19340


----------



## Hakone (Feb 6, 2012)

gerhard said:


> Tai,
> I admire your ingenious soil mixing techniques.:rollhappy:
> 
> For my acaules I use plain old acid sand and top it off with some pine duff. Whenever it gets to dry I water with RO water 1 gal /1 oz of apple cider.
> The plants been in that soil for over 6 years.



Hi Gerhard,

you wrote : " The plants been *in that soil for over 6 years*. "

in Cypripedium Forum,*17 November, 2007* um 10:15:28, you wrote : " I received several rhizomes of C. acaule and need some additional advice in planting. I did read all the articles listed in the forum, especially the report by Michael Vaughn, which was very helpful. Somewhere I read that acaule also grows in pure sand covered with pine duff. I have some very acidic coarse sand with a pH lower then 4. I lowered two 25 Gal plastic containers into the ground with good drainage. Covered the bottom with about 10" of spuce duff and added 15" of that sand. I am planning on sticking the roots into the sand leaving the growth bud above the sand and cover that with about 4-6 " of pine duff. 

Any comments and advise is appreciated. " 

can you tell me please about *your time difference* . I'm very worried about your memory.


----------



## Berthold (Feb 6, 2012)

Hakone said:


>



Hakone do You have enough Ferrum in Your mixture for the red flowerd species?


----------



## Hakone (Feb 6, 2012)

Berthold said:


> Hakone do You have enough Ferrum in Your mixture for the red flowerd species?



Dear Sir Dr. Berthold, 

There are white-flowered Cypripedium


----------



## Dido (Feb 6, 2012)

Sorry was no going again on your List. 

No Acaule flowering there and no Ferrari, you have a flowering hotei in, but this one is different from your second photo you show in this thread. 
From that one I was speaking. And the others in this starting one. But this plants on this pictures you will not find again later. So you have others blooming later, but not from this buds. 

About Acaule, if you would have a blooming one I am sure you would have shown in on of your threads or at least show the bud of itoke: And not from that one 4 years ago. 
By the way this is the Tread I was speaking about failure with Cyp Acaule,

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21486&highlight=Acaule


To the rest it is not worth to discuss with you. So lets stop us here. 
You are right and I am wrong, the others have nothing to do with this discussion.


----------



## Hakone (Feb 6, 2012)

Hi Dido ,

*By the way this is the Tread I was speaking about failure with Cyp Acaule,*



http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21486&highlight=Acaule

They are still in the ground, I will make photos. Wait until the spring comes, it will show whether they live or die. Today is - 10 Grad Celcius.


----------



## Hakone (Feb 7, 2012)

Hi Dido,

acaule pot today, - 10 Grad Celcius


----------



## Marc (Feb 7, 2012)

Hakone said:


> Hi Dido,
> 
> acaule pot today, - 10 Grad Celcius



I hope that the extreme cold we have currently didn't damage it.


----------



## Hakone (Feb 7, 2012)

Marc said:


> I hope that the extreme cold we have currently didn't damage it.



At night, I measured - 15 Grad Celcius. But Sir Berthold says, they are already dead and I have his acaule seedling killed . 

He wants not to show me any photos about my Pleione ( exchange for his acaule seedling ) .:sob:


----------



## Hakone (Feb 22, 2012)

here is the Camiel F. de Jong´s substrate mixes 

Camiel F. de Jong

Wageningen Universiteit en Researchcentrum PhD, Molecular Plant Pathology 
Laboratory of Phytopathology, Wageningen University , NL- 6709 DG Wageningen 
Plantbreeder Hardy Orchids and Scientist at Anthura B.V. 

http://www.cypripedium.de/forum/Deflasking of Cypripedium seedlings.pdf

I do not use this mixture .


----------



## Hakone (Mar 11, 2012)

today I note :

Substrate = Kanuma: Akadama: perlite = 2:1:1

is the bestest substrate for Cyps.

in the future Kyriu plays a role in the mix, for acid love cyps.

for alkaline love cyps, give a teaspoon of dolomite


----------



## Hakone (Mar 11, 2012)

bardolphianum




plectrochilon




fargesii


----------



## Hakone (May 3, 2012)

gerhard said:


> Tai,
> I admire your ingenious soil mixing techniques.:rollhappy:
> 
> For my acaules I use plain old acid sand and top it off with some pine duff. Whenever it gets to dry I water with RO water 1 gal /1 oz of apple cider.
> The plants been in that soil for over 6 years.



I must unfortunately disappoint you . Today


----------



## Hakone (May 3, 2012)

Marc said:


> I hope that the extreme cold we have currently didn't damage it.



Today


----------



## Hakone (May 3, 2012)

Dido said:


> Sorry was no going again on your List.
> 
> No Acaule flowering there and no Ferrari, you have a flowering hotei in, but this one is different from your second photo you show in this thread.
> From that one I was speaking. And the others in this starting one. But this plants on this pictures you will not find again later. So you have others blooming later, but not from this buds.
> ...



Today


----------

