# Best Fertilizer



## Peru (Jun 29, 2016)

Hello guys! I usually use some local made fertilizers for my orchids. I live in Peru so the offer is very limited, i have seen all this ones that people always praise : Superthrive , Miracle grow and Green Jungle. Is there like a significant difference using this ones? or its just some snake oil?! tnx in advance


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## gonewild (Jun 29, 2016)

Peru said:


> Hello guys! I usually use some local made fertilizers for my orchids. I live in Peru so the offer is very limited, i have seen all this ones that people always praise : Superthrive , Miracle grow and Green Jungle. Is there like a significant difference using this ones? or its just some snake oil?! tnx in advance



The advertising is snake oil. They are decent fertilizers but no better than you can mix yourself, actually not as good as you can mix yourself. In Lima you have access to a much better nutrient selection than in North America or Europe. Just not with the old reputations of the big company labels you mention above. If you want a premixed fertilizer you can buy the mixes that are sold for foliar feeding like GroMore 20-20-20 or 30-10-10. It's just as good as MiracleGrow.


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## Peru (Jun 29, 2016)

Tnx for the answer....so you suggest also to make my own mix? ive try Gromore and frankly i ddnt see any wow results.


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## Justin (Jun 29, 2016)

30-10-10 is effective and simple to use.


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## Ozpaph (Jun 29, 2016)

Fertilizing rarely produces 'Wow' results - just steady growth. I use half strength, weekly for most of them.


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## gonewild (Jun 29, 2016)

Peru said:


> Tnx for the answer....so you suggest also to make my own mix? ive try Gromore and frankly i ddnt see any wow results.



What fertilizer are you using now? Who makes it?

What Gromore type did you try?
How strong did you apply it?
It's not perfect but but should give positive results but you need to use it at stronger rates.


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## abax (Jun 29, 2016)

I'm sure Ray at First Ray's Orchids will be happy to send
you some K-Lite. I've been using it well over a year and
am very satisfied with the results.


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## Ray (Jun 30, 2016)

I have been using the K-Lite formula exclusively for over 5 years now, and I am very pleased. However - and I've received plenty of disagreement about this - I believe that, as long as it's complete, the actual formula is relatively unimportant. Frequent, high-volume irrigation plays a far bigger role in plant growth, and as long as nitrogen and calcium are provided on a regular basis, the plants will do fine.


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## JAB (Jun 30, 2016)

As usual Ray speaks the truth. Brands are just that.


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## gonewild (Jun 30, 2016)

Ray said:


> and as long as nitrogen and calcium are provided on a regular basis, the plants will do fine.



Depends on how you define "fine".


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## Ray (Jun 30, 2016)

gonewild said:


> Depends on how you define "fine".



True enough, but when you look at Brandon's work at Huntington BG, who feeds only calcium nitrate, "fine" appears to be petty fine...


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## consettbay2003 (Jul 1, 2016)

Ray said:


> True enough, but when you look at Brandon's work at Huntington BG, who feeds only calcium nitrate, "fine" appears to be petty fine...



I don't imagine that Brandon uses RO water so he is feeding with more than just calcium nitrate. His tap water analysis would be interesting to know.


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## Ray (Jul 1, 2016)

...probably correct, and that's why I use a formula with the trace additives.


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## gonewild (Jul 1, 2016)

Ray said:


> ...probably correct, and that's why I use a formula with the trace additives.



So "as long as nitrogen and calcium are provided on a regular basis" is not really quite enough for the plants to grow "fine" oke:

This is just for fun but it holds true if you use the correct form of the word "fine'...
Plants grow *fine* as long as nitrogen and calcium are provided on a regular basis.
Plants grow *finer* as long as nitrogen and calcium and trace additives are provided on a regular basis.
Plants grow *finest* as long as nitrogen and calcium and trace elements and all other nutrients are provided on a regular basis.

When a plant is growing fine it is growing in the the worst condition the word fine can describe. So in reality you were correct Ray.


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## Happypaphy7 (Jul 1, 2016)

consettbay2003 said:


> I don't imagine that Brandon uses RO water so he is feeding with more than just calcium nitrate. His tap water analysis would be interesting to know.



You are right.
Brandon says they feed all their plant with city water with TDS of 800ppm plus YaraLiva Calcium Nitrate 15.5-0-0.

Whatever is in that city water, I'm not going to bother looking up, but maybe extra fertilizer from all the farming land nearby? no idea. 

With the number of TDS alone, I think there is just too much worry about TDS and leaching and such. 

Then, again, I've never visited his garden and he only post FCC awarded plants. Who knows the general conditions of other plants in that garden?
Something to think about, I guess.

I also agree with what has already been mentioned.
People care just way too much about fertilizing.

No such thing as best fertilizer, or any fertilizer works.


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## gego (Jul 1, 2016)

gonewild said:


> So "as long as nitrogen and calcium are provided on a regular basis" is not really quite enough for the plants to grow "fine" oke:
> 
> This is just for fun but it holds true if you use the correct form of the word "fine'...
> Plants grow *fine* as long as nitrogen and calcium are provided on a regular basis.
> ...



Lance, you forgot to include "pretty fine" oke:


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## gego (Jul 1, 2016)

"People care just way too much about fertilizing."

So true. After you buy a plant, repot it, place it on a good spot, water it, look at it, the next thing, most likely you start thinking feeding,,,,. and the cycle of watering and feeding begins. Nothing else to do,,,


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## gonewild (Jul 1, 2016)

gego said:


> Lance, you forgot to include "pretty fine" oke:



Plants grow *pretty fine* as long as long as you don't over fertilize.


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## Rick (Jul 3, 2016)

Happypaphy7 said:


> You are right.
> Brandon says they feed all their plant with city water with TDS of 800ppm plus YaraLiva Calcium Nitrate 15.5-0-0.
> 
> Whatever is in that city water, I'm not going to bother looking up, but maybe extra fertilizer from all the farming land nearby? no idea.
> ...



Potable drinking water has fairly high EPA standards so you won't see a lot of "fertilizer residue" in legal drinking water wherever you go.

But generally for the basic macros (NPK) you will see virtually no P, and up to 5 ppm of N and K.

The limits on Ca, Mg, Na, silicates, sulfate, chloride, and bicarbonate ion are very high. So expect the 800 ppm TDS to be primarily calcium and sodium salts of sulfate and chloride.

Adding Calcium Nitrate to most tap waters is often pretty close to the Klite formula, but may be short on P (which a dab of bone meal in the potting mix can supply).


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## Rick (Jul 3, 2016)

Happypaphy7 said:


> You are right.
> 
> Then, again, I've never visited his garden and he only post FCC awarded plants. Who knows the general conditions of other plants in that garden?
> Something to think about, I guess.
> ...




There is an article on the Huntingdon collection in the most recent AOS mag and it looks pretty dang good there.

However, I agree that basing cultural decisions on AOS quality awards can leave you short. I keep hearing about the "AM kiss of death" all over the country.

I think there should be a conversation about culture goals since feeding regimes do make a big difference in plant growth, but not in mutually compatible ways.


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## Ozpaph (Jul 3, 2016)

800 ppm seems very high to me.


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## gonewild (Jul 4, 2016)

Ozpaph said:


> 800 ppm seems very high to me.



Not uncommon in California water supplies.


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## Ray (Jul 4, 2016)

If I am remembering correctly, Brandon said that was the calcium nitrate addition. Yes it seems very strong, but when you consider the size of the plant collection to be fed, I'll bet it doesn't happen all that often...

I think less, more often, is better, but the are many ways to skin that cat.


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