# Paph delenatii album - leaf color?



## gore42 (Apr 17, 2007)

I was just looking at my community pot of delenatii album, and noticed that there are dark purple markings under the leaves... not as much as my typical form delenatii, but the pigment is definitely present. I don't grow many albinos, but my understanding was that albino plants are typically albino across the entire plant, not just the bloom.

I have also heard that sometimes albino plants have pigmentation in the leaves but none in the bloom....

What has your experience been with delenatii album? I'm hoping that the flask that I bought wasn't mislabeled (or worse). 

As Ever,
Matthew Gore


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## NYEric (Apr 17, 2007)

Matt, just send them to me and I'll check them for you!


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## lienluu (Apr 17, 2007)

Matt, all the ones i have and the ones i have seen (including the semi-album) have had no pigmentation at all in the leaves.

Lien


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## gore42 (Apr 17, 2007)

Hmmm..... that's bad news. Guess I'd better contact the vendor.

- Matt


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## James (Apr 17, 2007)

My delenatii alba has NO purple on the underside of the leaves.


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## kentuckiense (Apr 17, 2007)

Sorry about your anthocyanins, Matt.


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## gore42 (Apr 17, 2007)

Me too....

I just took some photos to send to the vendor. 

*sigh*







I actually noticed the pigment quite some time ago, I just didn't stop to think about the implications. I emailed the vendor, I guess I'll wait and see what they say.

- Matt


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## gore42 (Apr 17, 2007)

Looking at them now, in natural light, they seem to have just as much pigment as any other delenatii.

- Matt


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## lienluu (Apr 17, 2007)

oh definately not albums. I will go photograph my albums for you now, ok?


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## gore42 (Apr 17, 2007)

Thanks Lien


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## lienluu (Apr 17, 2007)

here you go. 3 different plants


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## lienluu (Apr 17, 2007)

The only Paphiopedilum species I have heard of that has albinistic blooms on non-albinistic plants is P. emersonii. I have heard of now two different clones of P. emersonii album. Both had pigmented foliage and albinistic flowers. All other albinistic Paphiopedilums I have heard of and seen have had both albinistic flowers and foliage.

It is more common to have albinistic foliage with non-albinistif flowers.


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## NYEric (Apr 17, 2007)

Sorry to see that.


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## James (Apr 17, 2007)

Lien, what are the leafspans on your delenatii alba when they flower?


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## lienluu (Apr 17, 2007)

James said:


> Lien, what are the leafspans on your delenatii alba when they flower?



The smallest one had a 13cm leafspan on a single growth plant.


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## gore42 (Apr 17, 2007)

Yep, mine are pretty clearly not albinos. Lame. That makes this the world's most expensive standard delenatii flask, I guess... if they even are delenatiis. 

Luckily, this vendor has been pretty good about fixing problems in the past, so I don't expect a complete loss.

- Matt


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## kentuckiense (Apr 17, 2007)

gore42 said:


> Luckily, this vendor has been pretty good about fixing problems in the past, so I don't expect a complete loss.



Regular delenatiis are still pretty.


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## James (Apr 17, 2007)

lienluu said:


> The smallest one had a 13cm leafspan on a single growth plant.



excellent. mine has a 15 cm leafspan and it has 2 growths. So I guess it really is flowering size then. My regular delenatii was much larger when it flowered.


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## James (Apr 17, 2007)

kentuckiense said:


> Regular delenatiis are still pretty.



I would love to have a whole compot of delenatii. I probably will once I have the space. ~ 5 years probably


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## Lance Birk (Apr 17, 2007)

The leaves are narrow, and shiny, and the plants are awul 'tall' at the waist. They look like a hybrid to me. Could be your growing conditions...if you have lower light conditons.

Looking pretty healthy, 'though.

Albino plants have no red color.....ANYWHERE.


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## John M (Apr 18, 2007)

Matthew, the red markings should've been evident even before you got the flask; meaning that the vendor deliberately sold you the wrong flask, or, at best, he sure is guilty of being quite careless. I don't know what you paid; but, I'd think that a nice flask of delenatii alba cost you big bucks and you deserved at least enough of an inspection by the vendor for him to see that it wasn't alba inside. After all, you took the time to count the money or fill out your cheque properly, didn't you. 

You really deserve a thousand appologies from this guy and a whole crap load of large, true delenatii alba seedlings as replacement, not just another flask with tiny babies for you to start over with. This mistake could've and *should've* been caught at the time of sale, therefore, it should've never happened. Good luck!


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## gore42 (Apr 18, 2007)

John,

I agree, and actually... feel pretty stupid for not noticing and focusing on the markings when I compotted them (although they were much less distinct when the plants were smaller... they've grown a fair amount since that time). At the time, I bought a box of 20 flasks from this vendor and they were delivered to me in the flask (and unfortunately, a bit jumbled), so I wasn't as focused on this flask as I would have been if it had been a purchase of a single flask. 

Maybe I'll get lucky and will really get some larger seedlings out of the deal... but I doubt it. I might get an extra flask, though.

- Matthew Gore


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## gore42 (Apr 19, 2007)

If any of you are interested, the vendor actually offered to send me seedlings as replacements for the flask... so I'm pretty happy. Still don't know what these seedlings are (in my compot), but they're working on figuring it out.

As Ever,
Matthew Gore


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## Marco (Apr 19, 2007)

Thats cool. Glad everything worked out well Matt


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## John M (Apr 19, 2007)

gore42 said:


> If any of you are interested, the vendor actually offered to send me seedlings as replacements for the flask... so I'm pretty happy. Still don't know what these seedlings are (in my compot), but they're working on figuring it out.
> 
> As Ever,
> Matthew Gore


 Excellent! That's very good of the vendor. I hope that you are pleased with the seedlings when they arrive.


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## lienluu (Apr 21, 2007)

Lance Birk said:


> Albino plants have no red color.....ANYWHERE.



Yes, for "true" albino plants. However, the fact still remains that there are plants out there that are partially albinistic and breed true. It has been seen many times with P. micranthum, there are a number of clones out there that lack any pigmentation on the leaves or stems, yet have flowers with reduced pigmentation. These have proven to breed "true" when selfed, producing offspring with leaves lacking any pigmentation, yet flowers with reduced pigmentation.

While they are not "true" albinos, i.e. lacking pigmentation anywhere, they do display partial albinistic traits. 

Other examples of this include P. mastersianum "album" (plant no longer alive). Leaves and flowers lacked any pigmentation, yet the stems were pigmented. 

Again, P. emersonii, the two clones I have seen both had pigmented leaves yet the flower lacked any pigmentation. There also exists a "semi-album" P. emersonii. I have not seen the plant in person, yet I have been told the leaves lack any pigmentation. The only pigmentation seen is on the pouch.

In true albinism, the expression of tyrosinase is blocked completely. However, this pathway can be blocked at different stages, leading to slight production of colour, i.e. partial albinism. 

Here is an example of a P. micranthum that exhibits this partial albinistic trait.

Photograph of leaves:






Photograph of stem and bud, note the hairs on the spike are also green/white:





Photograph of plant and flower starting to open, note pigmentation on the petals:





Photograph of pigmented spots inside the pouch, not the greatest photo:





Photograph of the flower again:


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## lienluu (Apr 21, 2007)

sorry that should have read complete albinsim rather than true albinism


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## gore42 (Apr 21, 2007)

Thanks for the insight, Lien. It's always interesting to see the variation... especially in these complete and partial albinistic forms. Beautiful micranthum, as usual 

- Matt


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## NYEric (Apr 23, 2007)

I'll take it! Matt when are you going to have delenatii alb for sale?!


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## gore42 (Apr 23, 2007)

The vendor informed me that it would take 2-3 weeks for the permits, then it usually takes about a week for shipping something small like this by EMS, so... I'd say 3-4 weeks I'll have them. I may wait for them to get established before selling them, though... we'll see what condition they arrive in. I'll keep you posted.

- Matt


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## NYEric (Apr 23, 2007)

Thanx.


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