# Orchid etiquette



## tant385 (May 26, 2016)

I am collecting orchids for 4 year now and i am very serious about orchid viruses. I tested most of my orchids, without regret discard positive ones. Surprisingly, not many were positive before, but I can see clear pattern. If 2 or 3 plant from same nursery appeared positive I never go back to this vendor. And vice versa. Recently I visited a well known grower and found very nice blue cattleya. It cost me about 50$ without buds, so it was not the cheapest one in my collection. I particularly asked vendor if he test it, the answer was no, but the blue bloom was always clear and he even recently cloned it. I did not test it, virus testing is not cheap.Keep aside from my other plants just in case. OK. 2 month later it bloom for me and flower looks little suspicious. I test it and yes, ORSV positive. Should I contact vendor? He probably will not be happy. What is the orchid etiquette in cases like that?


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## gonewild (May 26, 2016)

Tell the vendor what you have learned. But don't complain because they said it was not tested and the plant you bought appeared clean.


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## abax (May 26, 2016)

If I find a problem with a purchased plant, I always contact the vendor. I don't ask for a replacement or harass the
vendor. I just think the vendor should know if something
is wrong so he/she can take steps to correct the problem.
After all, I'd like to know if I sold or traded a problem
plant.


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## Hyun007 (May 27, 2016)

No remedy/cure for it?


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## troy (May 27, 2016)

Whats orsv?


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## Clark (May 27, 2016)

There is nothing special about orchids or their vendors.
Treat them like anybody else.

Lowe's has money back guaranty btw.


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## Justin (May 27, 2016)

Hyun007 said:


> No remedy/cure for it?



No cure for orchid virus. Plants must be destroyed as it can be contagious to other plants in your collection.


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## gonewild (May 27, 2016)

troy said:


> Whats orsv?



Odontoglossum Ringspot Virus


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## Ozpaph (May 27, 2016)

abax said:


> If I find a problem with a purchased plant, I always contact the vendor. I don't ask for a replacement or harass the
> vendor. I just think the vendor should know if something
> is wrong so he/she can take steps to correct the problem.
> After all, I'd like to know if I sold or traded a problem
> plant.



that's a good approach


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## PaphMadMan (May 27, 2016)

Cloning without virus testing probably isn't best practice, but any testing done couldn't guarantee the plant you bought. I agree you should inform the vendor, without complaint or accusation. A good vendor will want to know and may offer a partial refund or store credit.


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## cnycharles (May 27, 2016)

One positive test isn't good, but if the plant was very expensive I'd test again to make sure. One of the methods of cloning is to take meristem tissue so small that the virus hasn't been able to enter it yet. 


Elmer Nj


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## gonewild (May 27, 2016)

cnycharles said:


> One of the methods of cloning is to take meristem tissue so small that the virus hasn't been able to enter it yet.
> 
> 
> Elmer Nj



Which could be a reason why it was recently cloned.


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## tant385 (May 27, 2016)

Did I understand correct that you can take virus infected plant and clone it in a way that meristem plants will be clean? Do you have links where i can read about it?


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## troy (May 27, 2016)

I don't even like odontoglossoms, does the virus infect everything? Any pictures?


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## jtrmd (May 27, 2016)

tant385 said:


> Did I understand correct that you can take virus infected plant and clone it in a way that meristem plants will be clean? Do you have links where i can read about it?



I read that years ago in Orchid Digest. Which nursery was it if you don't mind me asking?


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## gonewild (May 27, 2016)

troy said:


> I don't even like odontoglossoms, does the virus infect everything? Any pictures?



Yes orsv is a serious plant virus. It affects many plants.

Google ORSV virus you'll find plenty


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## gonewild (May 27, 2016)

tant385 said:


> Did I understand correct that you can take virus infected plant and clone it in a way that meristem plants will be clean? Do you have links where i can read about it?



google for invitro orchid virus elimination....
https://www.google.com/search?q=inv...8&oe=utf-8#q=invitro+orchid+virus+elimination


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## Happypaphy7 (May 29, 2016)

I could not find any specifics related to the topic?

I also remember an article saying either ORSV or CymMV cannot be removed by mericlonung?


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## gonewild (May 29, 2016)

Happypaphy7 said:


> I could not find any specifics related to the topic?
> 
> I also remember an article saying either ORSV or CymMV cannot be removed by mericlonung?



It can be done. It is just a lot of effort and expense and most orchid plants don't have the monetary value to justify the process.
Here is one pdf on it...

https://www.researchgate.net/profil..._selection/links/544724380cf2d62c305057ea.pdf


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## gonewild (May 29, 2016)

(Off topic of thread but related to the comments)
A friend did some experiments (long time ago) on cleaning viruses from various plants (roses, mums) using a process of rapid growth and tip cuttings. The method was to grow the infected plants at extremely high temperatures and then take tip cuttings and repeat the process rapidly. The idea was that the heat slowed the virus spread in the plant tissue and at the same time the heat caused the plant tissue to grow very fast and out run the virus. Then the propagator could cut off a small tip cutting that the virus had not infected yet. The method did have successful results on fast growing plants.


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## Happypaphy7 (May 30, 2016)

gonewild said:


> It can be done. It is just a lot of effort and expense and most orchid plants don't have the monetary value to justify the process.
> Here is one pdf on it...
> 
> https://www.researchgate.net/profil..._selection/links/544724380cf2d62c305057ea.pdf



Thanks for the paper.
So, clearly it is possible.

Well, orchids in general, yes, but phalaenopsis is a huge market now. It has been for a few years now generating millions of dollars. It was right up there near Poinsettia, which is the number one selling pot plants in the U.S.

The problem is that virused plants still make flowers and in the case of white and other solid colored flowers, the symptom is barely visible, like uneven cut marks along the petal edges and stuff that most consumers don't even know or care. After all, almost all of these pot phalaenopsis are bought for flowers and to be thrown away.

Now, I don't understand then why they keep saying things like "Certain old classic cultivars of Cattleyas only exist as virused specimen"?
Many orchid hobby growers have "good" life enough to be easily able to afford this kind of lab procedure.


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## Happypaphy7 (May 30, 2016)

gonewild said:


> (Off topic of thread but related to the comments)
> A friend did some experiments (long time ago) on cleaning viruses from various plants (roses, mums) using a process of rapid growth and tip cuttings. The method was to grow the infected plants at extremely high temperatures and then take tip cuttings and repeat the process rapidly. The idea was that the heat slowed the virus spread in the plant tissue and at the same time the heat caused the plant tissue to grow very fast and out run the virus. Then the propagator could cut off a small tip cutting that the virus had not infected yet. The method did have successful results on fast growing plants.



Virus is a huge problem in the horticulture industry, well, food crops more so since they feed us. 
I see virused lilies and amaryllis sold all over the place.

Without change in attitude, understanding, practice, the virus issue will never go away, and I don't think this change will ever happen as some people always "break the rules". It's just a reality. 

By the way, I wonder how high of a temperature we're talking. I assume only certain plants may work with such procedure.


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## gonewild (May 31, 2016)

Happypaphy7 said:


> Now, I don't understand then why they keep saying things like "Certain old classic cultivars of Cattleyas only exist as virused specimen"?
> Many orchid hobby growers have "good" life enough to be easily able to afford this kind of lab procedure.



Could be $5000 cost to hire such lab work, or even more. From a commercial viewpoint there is no way to justify the expense to clean up an old cattleya variety. The idea that a hobby grower would foot the bill and share the results??? obviously not gonna happen.


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## gonewild (May 31, 2016)

Happypaphy7 said:


> Without change in attitude, understanding, practice, the virus issue will never go away, and I don't think this change will ever happen as some people always "break the rules". It's just a reality.



And that is why STDs exist.



> By the way, I wonder how high of a temperature we're talking. I assume only certain plants may work with such procedure.



I think the temperature was to be the maximum the pant could survive at and still maintain rapid growth. As I recall it was temps in high excess of 100F.


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## gonewild (May 31, 2016)

If you want to know about cleaning virus from plants google "how to obtain virus free explants". Here are a couple links of interest.

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0102-05362000000300010

http://web02.affrc.go.jp/english/publication/jarq/06-1/06-1-001-007.pdf


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