# Fertilizer Question



## Marco (May 17, 2015)

Normally I use the balanced 20-20-20 grow more yellow at half a teaspoon per gallon for all plants. The instructions call for 1 teaspoon per gallon. 

I found grow more pink (30-10-10) and grow more blue (6-30-30) sitting in a box somewhere both pretty much unused. I don't know where they came from. I have never used the pink or blue and i don't want to put them to waste. 

Can I alternate the blue (spring/summer) and pink (fall/winter) with yellow for phals and neos when I water? Thoughts/suggestions welcome.


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## PaphMadMan (May 17, 2015)

You'll find some strong opinions about fertilizer around here. Take them with the proverbial grain of salt. It is never as simple or as complex as some try to make it.

You don't say how often you are using the fertilizer. If you use that rate more than once a month you're a very heavy fertilizer compared to my preferences. You don't say anything about your media or water quality either, and that can make a difference.

But if you want to keep things simple, and you are happy with the results you get with the 20-20-20, go ahead and use some of the pink and blue, but you have the seasons reversed. Use some of the pink for a couple months beginning in very early spring, and some of the blue in fall/winter, and perhaps cut back on the rate for all.

Now, prepare yourself for an avalanche of conflicting and progressively further off topic advice, relative to the simple question you asked.


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## gonewild (May 17, 2015)

Marco said:


> Can I alternate the blue (spring/summer) and pink (fall/winter) with yellow for phals and neos when I water? Thoughts/suggestions welcome.



Yes you can.
No you shouldn't.

Both are correct answers.

A lot of ideas and knowledge about fertilizing orchids has been learned and discussed while you were away.

I suggest you search for K-lite and read all the threads and then you will have your answer. In the meantime just do what you used to do. (leave the strange color fertilizer hidden in a box).


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## Marco (May 17, 2015)

PaphMadMan said:


> You don't say how often you are using the fertilizer. If you use that rate more than once a month you're a very heavy fertilizer compared to my preferences. You don't say anything about your media or water quality either, and that can make a difference.



As far as watering goes what I've had success with before and have been using since i started again :

1) Neos - Sphag mounds in neo pots. I only water (municipal water) when all of the following apply :

- sphag is crispy when i squeeze the sides
- sphag is crispy when i push up on the bottom opening of the neo pot
- all of the roots i see are white and not a wettish green

If I get a sense that the sphag will dry out the next day during the day (i.e. the bottom of the neo pot is not fully crispy) the night before I stick all the neos in front of a fan and water the following morning. Last thing i want is my neos being thirsty to long during the day especially when it is really hot. Right now i pretty much water every 3-4 days. Each time I water, I flush each mound 3-4 times (about half a gallon of water for each neo). 

I only fertilize every other watering at half the rate suggested by the instructions on the container (half teaspoon of 20-20-20 per gallon) I also add 3-4 drop of protekt in each gallon. I only water with fertilizer water once after i flush the media.

Back then I noticed that after a while there were white dusty flakes on the sphag when it fully dried out. After reading some reading I realized it was mineral build up. So now I'm much more generous on the flushing. 

2) Phals - Inorganic S/H - I water (Municipal) similar to my neos. I flush several rounds and use fertilizer water every other watering. However, i only water when there is only a small trace of residue left in the reservoir.

To Lance's point (I have been away for quite a while) I will be putting the pink and blue fertilizer back in the box for the time being and stay with the 20-20-20 for now. I need to do some reading. 

I may use the (30-10-10 : spring) and (6-30-30 : fall) on my phals at a later time since phals have been more forgiving for me. Neos on the other hand I will stick to 20-20-20.

Thoughts and opinions still welcome.

Thanks!


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## gonewild (May 17, 2015)

Marco if you decide to read the threads about K-lite start with the oldest first so that you have an understanding about what it is before you get to all the threads arguing about it. :wink:

Just to get you started K-lite is a new concept in what nutrients to feed orchids basically based on an extreme reduction in potassium.


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## Stone (May 17, 2015)

First you should be aware of exactly how much N-P-K you are using.

The 20-20-20 has 20%N, 8.8%P, 16.6%K in it.
The 30-10-10 has 30%N, 4.4%P, 8.3%K in it.
The 6-30-30 has 6%N, 13.2%P, 24.9%K in it.

These are the actual amounts of these elements in the fertilizers.

I think possibly the first and definitly the last has too much Phosphorus.
So I would recommend using the 30-10-10 or a mix of that and the 20-20-20all year. And not use the 6-30-30 at all.

The rate is up to you but I would suggest keeping it very low for Paphs and quite high for Phals.


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## Marco (May 18, 2015)

Lance - Thanks, I have read Rick's article and some of the threads on the forum. I am intrigued by the K-lite Fertilizer. I may gave this a shot on my Phals after I do a bit more reading. I don't know what's exactly in my water and I do not have an RO system. My main concern is whether using my tap with K-lite will be ok. All I know my tap makes my skin dry after i wash my face. 

Mike - Mixing the 20-20-20 and the 30-10-10 might be a potential route.

Thank. I appreciate all the input and the arrow sign to k-lite.


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## AdamD (May 18, 2015)

For my water I got a $15 TDS meter on Amazon. It doesn't give me a breakdown of what's in the water, but it gives me a ballpark figure on how hard or soft my water is.


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## cnycharles (May 18, 2015)

Marco, your skin drying after washing just sounds like high bleach content, just a guess


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## Marco (May 18, 2015)

cnycharles said:


> Marco, your skin drying after washing just sounds like high bleach content, just a guess



Charles - Thanks. The kicker is i don't drink my tap. I buy bottled distilled for drinking water. I think tap and most bottle water taste gross (fiji, evian..etc.) However, I do use tap to cook after its been boiled. It may be time to look into something.


Adam - I may just look into that. Thanks.


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## gonewild (May 18, 2015)

If your water comes from a public water system you can get a copy of the water analysis from them.
If your skin feels dry the water might be hard (contains a lot of minerals) or maybe it may indicate the pH is high.

Unless you know at least the basic content of your water supply you cant really make an accurate decision about what fertilizer is best.
I would say using K-lite would be a good choice until you do find out what is in your water. That's what I would do. 
Using your 20-20-20 or the 30-10-10 until you decide what you want long term is not going to cause you any problems.


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## Marco (May 18, 2015)

gonewild said:


> If your water comes from a public water system you can get a copy of the water analysis from them.
> If your skin feels dry the water might be hard (contains a lot of minerals) or maybe it may indicate the pH is high.



Lance thanks good to know. Will look into how i can get in touch with the county.


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## gonewild (May 18, 2015)

Marco said:


> Lance thanks good to know. Will look into how i can get in touch with the county.



They may have the water analysis posted on their webpage.


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## Marco (May 18, 2015)

They do! Link below

http://www.waterauthorityofgreatnecknorth.com/waterquality.pdf

Unfortunately, I'm not the least bit qualified to read something like this. By trade, I'm simply a desk jockey in the back office of a finance company.

Lance - If you, or anyone else that can understand this report, let me know whether I can use K-lite with my tap it what would be greatly appreciated! I believe the area of interest would be on PDF pg5 and PDF pg 7. I will say though seeing asbestos on that list is a bit un-nerving.


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## Happypaphy7 (May 18, 2015)

Your skin might be dry after washing because of the soap (or whatever cleansing product you use) and this is normal for most people, even those with oily skin because obviously soap removes oil, dirt, and part of dead skin layer. 
Or do you wash your face without any cleansing agent and still get dry skin? 
If, yes, that sounds very interesting. 


By the way, I just quickly read through that link and strangely the water quality report does not really do its job fully.
On page 7, there is a table of certain chemicals that are considered toxic and thus the amount in the drinking water is regulated by the law, but I don't think I see anything else.

For example, when I look up NYC water report, there is a table of "general" minerals like Cl, Ca, Mg,,,,their concentration along with total dissolved solute and pH and more.
Hmmm strange. or maybe I missed something on your water report.


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## Marco (May 18, 2015)

I'll poke around a bit more on the municipal website. Maybe it's not the right report?


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## gonewild (May 18, 2015)

Here is the report you need to look at..

http://www.waterauthorityofgreatnecknorth.com/pdf/Supplements 1-18 Water Quality Report.pdf


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## gonewild (May 18, 2015)

A quick look at the report and I'd say your water is pretty good. I dont have time to look at all of it now.


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## Marco (May 18, 2015)

gonewild said:


> A quick look at the report and I'd say your water is pretty good. I dont have time to look at all of it now.



No worries Lance no need to dive through the details. You already did so much by providing a link to the report I need. I have been away for quite a while and I really appreciate you directing me to an answer. I still have tons of reading to do 

Thanks again.


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## Ray (May 19, 2015)

Marco said:


> Lance - Thanks, I have read Rick's article and some of the threads on the forum. I am intrigued by the K-lite Fertilizer. I may gave this a shot on my Phals after I do a bit more reading. I don't know what's exactly in my water and I do not have an RO system. My main concern is whether using my tap with K-lite will be ok.


The water source has very little to do with the fertilizer. About the only thing it may affect is the calcium, magnesium, and iron concentrations, and I seriously doubt that those will be SO great that they would be damaging.


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## gonewild (May 19, 2015)

Your water has about 30ppm Ca and 15ppm Mg and basically no iron.

Looks good for use with K-lite if that is the direction you choose.
If you also use seaweed extract that should take care of any shortage of iron.


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## Marco (May 19, 2015)

gonewild said:


> Your water has about 30ppm Ca and 15ppm Mg and basically no iron.
> 
> Looks good for use with K-lite if that is the direction you choose.
> If you also use seaweed extract that should take care of any shortage of iron.



Lance - thank you so much. I really appreciate all your help on this. I am definitely trying the k-lite on my phals. Just a bit more apprehensive on neos. I might pick up a plain old white neo and use it as a test subject. I will be paying a visit to rays website very soon.


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## Ray (May 20, 2015)

Marco, if it helps you allay your concerns, I have used K-Lite exclusively since late-November of 2011 on my entire collection, which is quite varied, and includes neos. All are doing quite well and blooming regularly.


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## gonewild (May 20, 2015)

About Neo growth... I have no first hand experience growing Neos.

When growing Neos in the traditional Japanese style is slow or rapid growth preferred? Thinking about the improved and "rapid" increase in the number of new growths K-lite users are getting on orchids in general is that a good thing for small traditional Neos? Or is a restricted growth rate more keeping in style?


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## Marco (May 20, 2015)

I cant speak to what's preferred in a traditional sense. I'm relatively new to the scene. I prefer healthy growth whether it be quick or slow. I'm just a tad hesitant on neos because I don't want to risk loosing any of them. Typically i find that phals are so much more forgiving than neos and paphs.


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## Ray (May 21, 2015)

Unless you are WAY overdoing it, fertilizer is pretty low on the impact priority.


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## gonewild (May 21, 2015)

Ray said:


> Unless you are WAY overdoing it, fertilizer is pretty low on the impact priority.



This I do not agree with.
What you imply with this is that your plants would do just as well if you switched to fertilizing with manure as long as it was not to applied to strong.
Way under fertilizing also has a great impact. Using different formulas of fertilizer has always had a very significant impact on growth. When did that change?


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## Marco (May 21, 2015)

Well. For what it's worth. I thought manure should be for outdoor plants. I don't know how using manure for indoor plants would fly with the missesoke:.

With that said, I did pick up some k-lite and seaweed extract from Ray.


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## NYEric (May 21, 2015)

She will not be happy abou the seaweed extract either!


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## Marco (May 21, 2015)

NYEric said:


> She will not be happy abou the seaweed extract either!



eff I need to put that one in the fridge too. I may have to get creative on my excuse


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## Ray (May 21, 2015)

1) KelpMax does not have an objectionable odor - it reminds me of being at the beach.
2) It does not have to be refrigerated; keep it cool and out of the sun, and it can last years.


Ray Barkalow
firstrays.com


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## Happypaphy7 (May 24, 2015)

Neos- number of growths does not matter as much as overall look. How the leaves are, and how the plant is presented, these are two most important features in Japanese tradition.

I have tried a few different fertilizers on my plants and have not seen any difference.

Seaweed- some people might find it stinky still. I think I did not like it, but at least far better than fish stuff, which I threw away. lol


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## Marco (May 24, 2015)

Happypaphy7 said:


> I have tried a few different fertilizers on my plants and have not seen any difference.
> 
> Seaweed- some people might find it stinky still. I think I did not like it, but at least far better than fish stuff, which I threw away. lol



Wheres the neo photos? oke:

I received Ray's package but i haven't opened the k-lite or seaweed extract yet. I don't think my phals have gotten used to me yet. They did come in flower so their energy may be redirected and i don't want to snip the spikes. I'm going to hold off a tad on the k-lite until they start picking up. But will keep you posted one what i think about the seaweed extract.


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