# Mealy bugs, scale and aphids oh my!



## Bluefirepegasus (Nov 26, 2007)

:sob: I came home from my vaction expecting all my babies to have grown and some to have bloomed out. And they did.....but the tragic event that followed next was my own worst nightmare! 

I have mealy bugs, scale AND aphids all at once! I had left my plants in the bathtub with the door shut to create nice humidty. They were left to drain after their shower and the heat was set to as resonable temperature so they wouldn't get cold. And the insects partied! 

So, I went through every leaf and every plant and crushed everything with my fingers. I try not to use spray if I don't have to. If I do need to use something in the way of insecticide what do you recommend? I tried regular handsoap to help with mealy bugs. What about scale? Insecticidal soap maybe? 

Bluefirepegasus


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## rdlsreno (Nov 26, 2007)

That might help. You might try some systemic insecticide.

Ramon


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## ohio-guy (Nov 26, 2007)

rubbing alcohol...you can even flush the plant a little while after if you think you put on too much, but it evaporates pretty quickly


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## goldenrose (Nov 27, 2007)

I haven't heard of one using regular handsoap, dishwashing soap yes & the alcohol is quick & easy.


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## TheLorax (Nov 27, 2007)

Hard armored scale is a toughie. 

Can wettable Orthene be used on orchids?


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## Candace (Nov 27, 2007)

Yes, Orthene WP is what I use along with Merit in the greenhouse. Both are systemics. But for indoor growers I'd go with the small guns and see how it works. I'm all for systemics and big guns, but preferably not inside the house and around my animals and kids.


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## TheLorax (Nov 27, 2007)

> I have mealy bugs, scale AND aphids all at once!


 I'm thinking I'd come out with the big guns for that type of a triple whammy and Orthene seems to be the lesser of the evils when I've had to use it on plants. I dip plants, pot and all, into a solution of the Orthene and follow up with another soil drench in 10 days. A dip can be done in a laundry tub. I suppose she should probably put out some ant traps regardless of what she chooses to do.


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## Candace (Nov 27, 2007)

Dips with multiple plants is a no-no with orchids to avoid the spread of virus. I don't recommend that.


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## likespaphs (Nov 27, 2007)

i've never been a big fan of orthene. it's an organnphosphate and it stinks for a week or two... 
plus, i don't know how effective a soil drench is when they're not in a soil. would people please weigh in?


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## Candace (Nov 27, 2007)

Soil/pot drench would be effective because it's a systemic. The roots of the plant would draw the chemical from the soil/medium. Systemics work great because you don't actually have to hit all of the bugs with the chemical like many of the growth inhibitors on the market, oils, etc. But, I'm with you, I don't like the smell at all and for sure wouldn't want that odor in my household. It's perfect for outdoor use if you can wrangle all the plants outside in warmer weather. And in the g.h. it's ideal.


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## NYEric (Nov 27, 2007)

Don't listen to these chemists. Just wipe the plants down w/ a piece of paper towel soaked w/ alcohol and repeat for a few days.


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## TheLorax (Nov 27, 2007)

The odor seems to dissipate quite quickly, at least for me it does. Must admit I've only had to bring out the big guns twice. Once on outdoor plants and once on indoor plants. 

Never thought about the spread of a virus by using the same dipping tank. Makes sense to me so that's a really good strike against a dip. I still think I'd go with a product that is systemic with three different pests going at those plants before they do enough damage that one has to deal with secondary and tertiary bacterial or fungal infections. Some of those bugs she listed are known for transferring both bacterial and fungal infections from plant to plant.


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## Bluefirepegasus (Nov 28, 2007)

I will have to try the acohol. Oh geese...can't even spell today! 

So far everything seems to be okay but I wonder if I got them all you know? I wonder if once you have pests like that if they really ever go away. So, time for close monitoring! 

Oh man....has this ever happened to anyone else? 

Bluefirepegasus


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## NYEric (Nov 28, 2007)

I think I posted a photo of the 2007 mealie - phrag invasion. You just have to increase your vigilance and improve your maint. program. Good Luck, Eric.


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## TheLorax (Nov 28, 2007)

Many mealy bugs have a root feeding stage. You did not reach any mealies that would have been down in the potting medium feeding on the roots of your plants with your alcohol so although you may currently have control of the mealies, you probably don't have eradication. If you keep up with monitoring your plants and swabbing every mealy you see, sooner or later you should get them all. You can't treat what you can't see which is why systemics can be real effective in some situations.

Aphids are pretty much visible on plants throughout all phases of their life so you probably got all of those. One slight problem with aphids is that they are farmed by ants for their honeydew. I know this sounds like something from a horror flick but if you do a search on line, you will find that ants do protect their "livestock" by moving enough aphids off the host plants to safe zones so that in the event they lose their main colony of aphids they are able to recolonize the plants from their aphid stash. Best to set up some ant traps in and around your plants just in case there are any that get any bright ideas of moving aphids back to your plants after you've so carefully nailed them all with alcohol. 

Regarding the scale you mentioned, I don't know that you put a dent in them if they were armored scales. Soft scale yes, hard scale doubtful. It would be a real big help if you could post photos of the scale. 

Of course this has happened to others.


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## Bluefirepegasus (Nov 28, 2007)

Well, I still haven't had time to master the art of posting photos up here so I can't put a pic of the scale up. I am thinking it is the soft coated kind. 

Hmmm.....just as I suspected with the mealy bugs. Grrr........... I hate those pests! 

And good point about the aphid/ant relationship. My orchids are in the house right now so it should be alright....but you never know. I will take precaution.

A good question for all of you that live in the south or areas with brown recluses. I have found that the recluses love to hide in my plants. They always seem to get into my orchids no matter what I do. I live in alabama so it is something I deal with constantly. Do you guys think that using a systemic or something that has a soil dip will work? These guys can hold breath for half and hour, live without food or water for a year and they don't clean themselves like other spiders do....it makes them hard to deal with. What do you think?

Bluefirepegasus


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## TheLorax (Nov 28, 2007)

What you described above is totally inconsistent with all that I know of recluse spider habits and we definitely have them where I garden. They are most likely to hang out in the towel you tossed on the ground or clothes in a hamper, leaf piles, or under rocks. They're nocturnal and like it dark. Incredibly, they're non-aggressive. You leave them alone and they leave you alone but they are very poisonous. 

Look up images of Loxosceles reclusa. I'm thinking you have a different spider hanging out in and around your plants. Plants just don't provide the darkness they seem to gravitate toward to spin their bizarre little webs. 

If you have a digital camera, you can post pictures. If I learned how, anyone can. You can get a free account at photobucket.com but there are many other sites. You upload your photo to their site then edit the size to something small so we don't kill people on dial up and post the bottom most link in your post and it magically appears.


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## Bluefirepegasus (Nov 28, 2007)

Well, believe it or not it is the recluse. Backwards fiddle with the fiddle head pointing towards the abdomen, hairless legs, patternless abdomen, low riding body, large black feelers and if close enough eyes arranged in six in front of the head instead of eight eyes wrapping around the sides. My apartment I used to live in was infested. And I know what you mean...towels clothes etc. on the floor....since we were infested we have become experts at recluse proofing. Nothing is on the floors...no towels, clothes, boxes etc. Everything is put up and away. Beds are pulled away from the wall, boxes are sealed completely and put up off the floor. 

Unfortunately, my entire plant collection got infested with them at my last place. I had to throw them all away.They spun their webs in the bottom holes/parts of the plants. I would hunt them with gloves on and I would see them run back into their webs on the bottom of the pots. I even had one spin a web between the bottom of the pot and the shelf it was on and the shelf was as tall as I was! 

So, unfortunately, I know it is them and I know they are here. I have done lots of research on them and looked at all kinds of pictures. I am sad that they are still in my plants though. :sob:

Anyone have any ideas?

Bluefirepegasus


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## TheLorax (Nov 29, 2007)

Unlucky you is about all I can say. I'd probably go with a combo approach more so because I fear the bite of these spiders and they do seem to like to hang out in piles of laundry on the floor and my hands are always grabbing laundry. I might be inclined to leave them be in a greenhouse depending on their numbers but not if they were hanging out in and around the plants I work with. No way- I'd go and nuke them. 

Sticky traps are what we set down. I went online and found this group that is probably about as good as any-
http://www.critterridders.com/spiders_traps.htm

I must admit we hired professional exterminators when I found one in the house. I was sort of thinking they would be like cockroaches and where there was one there were one hundred and I didn't want to deal with it. I don't recall which product was used for the perimeter of the house or for the inside but I let them know loud and clear I had kids and pets here. I found this which might be of interest to you... I know it would be if I was constantly finding brown recluses anywhere in my home-
http://www.doyourownpestcontrol.com/pi/pick-cynoffwp.htm
This looks good too but warning ***graphic photos***-
http://www.e-bug.net/pests/spiders.shtml

This site included some tips on keeping them at bay which included moving any woodpiles you may have away from your home. We moved our woodpile far away from our home. 
http://www.utextension.utk.edu/publications/pbfiles/pb1191.pdf

So far all I am finding on my glue traps are wolf spiders and an occasional daddy long legs. Well, other insects too but no recluses. I haven't seen another one in my home in years so evidently the combo approach does work.


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## NYEric (Nov 29, 2007)

1. recluses would eat your pests. 
2. I don't believe you have a gigantic collection if you put it in your bathroom while you were away. If so then repeating the alcohol rub should suffice. 
3. There's nothing more satisfying then killing the scale by squishing them on the paper towel soaked in alcohol. :evil:


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## TheLorax (Nov 29, 2007)

Eric- I am normally for leaving things be and black widow spiders would definitely be in the category of a leave-it-be spider for me but not any type of a recluse. If she's got brown recluse spiders making her plants their home that would be pushing it for me. Every last one of them would have to go to heaven and the sooner the better. I don't know if you are familiar with what a recluse spider bite can do to a human but the link below says it all.
***warning, extremely graphic***
http://images.google.com/images?cli...recluse+spider+bite&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

I do agree that repeatedly applying the alcohol to any mealies and aphids should work over time. It will also work on the scale if it is a soft bodied scale. If she's got hard bodied/armored scale, I doubt seriously if alcohol will be effective.


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## TheLorax (Nov 29, 2007)

On second thought... recluses do eat pests. They are definitely good pest patrol as long as crickets aren't one of the pests. Rather than sending all those beneficial brown recluses to heaven what about trying to find some sort of a HavAHeart live spider trap? Bluefirepegasus could live trap all her brown recluses and send them to NYEric to hang out on his plants in his home. It would sort of be the ultimate form of integrated pest management and she'd be saving many spider lives in the process.

NYEric, Here's a really nice outfit you could wear while lounging around at home after she ships live brown recluses to you-
http://www.beeware.za.net/e5/images/Protective Suit 219.jpg


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## NYEric (Nov 29, 2007)

We used to keep bees; I wonder where my hood is. And BTW alcohol works really well on scale, try it. I'm also not advocating keeping brown recluses and black widows in the home, especially since unlike recluse bites black widows can be fatal.


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## TheLorax (Nov 29, 2007)

Less than 1% of all Black Widow bites are fatal. 
http://www.desertusa.com/july97/du_bwindow.html
I thought it was a little higher than 1% but it's not and at 1% that places them in a category of being hardly ever fatal. I don't know about you but I wouldn't want to be that 1 in a hundred. I believe only the female Black Widow is poisonous. 

Not so with our little friend the Brown Recluse. Both the male and the female are poisonous. Fatality rate of Brown Recluse bites is around 5% which is deemed to be rare (5% is rare ???, that's 1:20) however there have also been documented fatalities resulting from complications associated with the brown recluse bite that don't seem to be accounted for in the bite fatality rate. 
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=61266


> While black widow spider bites are hardly ever fatal, rare deaths have occurred from brown recluse spider bites and are more common in children than in adults.



I've had to deal with armored scale before. Alcohol didn't put a dent in them and it didn't put a dent in them for a few others who bought plants from the same nursery that was evidently infested with armored scale. Maybe these scales are shedding their armor for others? Just kidding. Hard scale was tough to get rid of for me at least. I ended up being instructed to add some Dawn dishwashing detergent to the Orthene before dipping to help soften up the scale. I will admit that the Orthene worked but I dipped every plant then followed up in 10 days with a soil drench. That probably lasted at least 6-8 weeks in the plant so anything trying to take a bite out of my plants died.


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## Bluefirepegasus (Nov 29, 2007)

Thank you so much Lorax! That was very helpful! Do you have dogs? I worry about my dog change sniffing around the sticky traps and getting bitten on the nose by a recluse that is still alive. I wonder if pets would leave the traps alone?

And yes, nyeric I don't have a big collection so alcohol right now would definately be a reality for me. I think I will try it as I have some under the bathroom sink. thank you and yes.....squishing them is satifying isn't it?

Bluefirepegasus


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## NYEric (Nov 29, 2007)

I try to avoid strong insecticides, Supernature will just get immune anyway.


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## Bluefirepegasus (Nov 29, 2007)

I actually did get bitten by a recluse and got lucky. I shook out every piece of laundry the night before/...our canvas bag was up off the floor and he must have found a way in that night. I was lifting clothes into the washer and got bitten on my left bicep. If I had gone through necrosis I would have lost my entire bicep muscle. It was so scary. 

So, thank you for all the info. Maybe someday I will move out of the south and areas that recluses are in and not have to deal with them right?  

Bluefirepegasus


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## NYEric (Nov 29, 2007)

I .....................Love NY.


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## Bluefirepegasus (Nov 29, 2007)

Yep---cold as fill in the blank and no brown recluses! hooray! 

Bluefirepegasus


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## NYEric (Nov 29, 2007)

Come here in August and say that. Also no tornadoes, earthquakes, landslides, wildfires, and very little flooding.


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## littlefrog (Nov 29, 2007)

Back to the original topic... Mealies and scale are a pain in the rectum. I've found rubbing alcohol is a good first line of attack if you find just one or two of them, at least it knocks back the adults, but until you root out and nuke the source you will never get rid of them all.

Orthene WP works for me, although mealies develop resistance. The new 'gun' is imidacloprid, which you can buy off the shelf at the hardware store (look for Bayer tree and shrub spray). That is another systemic, but mealies also develop resistance (and it is a combination of fertility drugs and viagra for spidermites).

I like to mix an IGR (insect growth regulator) with either orthene or imidacloprid. Right now I'm using Distance, which has some systemic activity. But a lot of people use EnstarII. It is a bit expensive. Ask around and somebody near you has probably already purchased some, you don't need very much. By doing a mix you greatly decrease the chance for resistance to develop. 

The best way to never get rid of your pests is to pick your poison and only spray once (coincidently the best way to get resistant pests). You need to spray several times (three or four) at 7-10 day intervals. Doesn't matter what you pick. And be as thorough as you can with the application, including plants you don't think are infested.


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## likespaphs (Nov 29, 2007)

TheLorax said:


> Many mealy bugs have a root feeding stage. You did not reach any mealies that would have been down in the potting medium feeding on the roots of your plants with your alcohol so although you may currently have control of the mealies, you probably don't have eradication. ....



i disagree. actually, i've never seen them on the roots unless they were root mealybugs, which is different than either the citrus (mealies that make cotton egg sacks) or long-tailed (they have long tails). 
the crawler stage of scales (either armored or soft) are the most susceptable to pesticides...

y'all probably realize this but if you get a pesticide, make sure that the pesticide is labeled for the pest you're hoping to eradicate.


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## TheLorax (Nov 29, 2007)

Ha ha ha ha ha! Yes, if your dogs stick their noses near the traps they will end up sporting them. I've had a few cats running around here with traps stuck to the sides of their heads and have had to use an animal clipper to get them off. My cats look so punk when I have to shave off hair to rid them of the sitcky traps. Over the years they have learned to steer clear of them. The dogs don't bother them for some reason but then they don't exactly try to pounce or eat anything that moves either. 

I was bitten by a recluse many years ago too. High temps, lots of vomiting, lost about 15 pounds, and it pretty much downed me for well over a week but I developed nothing that even remotely resembled anything in those photos- Thank God. I do have a nice round scar the size of a nickel where they literally cut out the tissue where I was bitten which looks a lot like a cigar smoker used my me as a human ashtray. I got nailed from rags tossed on the floor in a corner of the garage that I scooped up to wash. Very attractive scar when wearing short sleeved tops- not. 

"Many mealy bugs have a root feeding stage." I didn't say all. This was sort of why I asked her to try to figure out a way to post photos and this is sort of why I kinda steered her to Orthene although anything with the active ingredient of imidacloprid should work equally well. If I'm going to use a chemical, I go for Orthene because it's cheap and ships out the next day. I would agree the crawler stage of armored scale is most vulnerable... not so once they mature and if there are crawlers of the species present, the adults capable of reproducing are also present. 



> The best way to never get rid of your pests is to pick your poison and only spray once (coincidently the best way to get resistant pests). You need to spray several times (three or four) at 7-10 day intervals. Doesn't matter what you pick. And be as thorough as you can with the application, including plants you don't think are infested.


 Excellent comments. 

Me personally, I'm always going to try to go for a biological control when ever possible for the reasons NYEric stated "Supernature will just get immune anyway". There are some bio controls out there for what she has but they are expensive.


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## NYEric (Nov 30, 2007)

There are plenty of companies that sell lacewings and ladybugs for natural pest control but it's too cold in most of the country to use these now.


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## TheLorax (Nov 30, 2007)

Ya, I was thinking along the lines of Cryptolaemus montrouzieri but she doesn't have enough plants to warrant the cost and it's too cold even with heat packs. The scale is open because we don't have any idea which one she has for sure.


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## Bluefirepegasus (Dec 3, 2007)

Well gentlemen, I finally narrowed it down and it was for sure the soft scale. NYeric, I tried the alcohol thingy on one of the plants that had mealy bugs and it so far appears to be working and didn't hurt the plant. I have the plant quarentined. 

But now for a most serious issue. I was doing some reading.....and I think I may have some plants with a type of mosaic virus. I am not sure which kind. If you want some pictures you guys will just have to email me. I don't want to download anything on my new computer because of computer viruses that can be attached. So, if you need pics when I get them off of my camera and onto the computer my email is [email protected]. 

I went to research on the net for pictures but found nothing but dead ends and pictures that were very few. The spots I have on the vandas.....they could be from too much sun. They are black and elongated. Some of them have light brown middles. On the oncidium (poor thing) they are everywhere. The are large and black. 

I will take photos and then send them to anyone who wants to see them. If anyone knows where I can find info....and I do plan on poking around the forum for info in this section as well.....please let me know. I am praying this stuff is not a virus. I think destroying the plants will break my heart. But, if a virus there is nothing I can do for them is there? They will just infect the rest of my plants won't they?

God I hope this is too much light....at least on the vandas. The oncidium might be past help. 

Bluefirepegasus


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## Bluefirepegasus (Dec 3, 2007)

Just had a thought about what it could be reading through the forum here....maybe even a fungal infection? The vandas have a few little bits of bark in their baskets but they get to hang in front of the window. the oncidium is in a half hydroponic pot with compressed clay and two little holes in the side. Evidentally you water it to the top, let it drain out and that is it. 

Bluefirepegasus


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## TheLorax (Dec 3, 2007)

You have mail from me. I think you will recognize the sender. I will post any photos you send me here in your thread for you.


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## NYEric (Dec 3, 2007)

You should have a firewall or some protection on your computer, the most modern versions can be updated via the web. When you *send* photos you shouldn't get any incoming viruses, just cookies from the sites you upload to, if you want to get rid of those, on a windows based system go to 'start', then 'search' for 'cookies', and then delete at will.


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## TheLorax (Dec 3, 2007)

She may not have a photo hosting service or know how to use one. I had to have my kids show me how to do it. It's pretty intimidating to people who are computer illiterate. 

She should consider deleting her e-mail address from this thread though. That can always be sent privately in a PM.


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## Bluefirepegasus (Dec 4, 2007)

well, lorax you bring a good point perhaps I should delete my email and then ask people to pm me, but how can I do that? I looked but there seems to be no function I can use. 

Thanks for the help with the pics. I am not totally illiterate, but I don't have much ram/memory and i am worried about pop ups etc. from photobucket. I'm afriad I need to beef up some security on my comp before I brave those programs. My last comp is completely dead because of spam and pop ups. so sad! 

Anyway, I am praying it isn't mosaic virus! Pray, pray, pray! 

Tell me what you guys think when the pics are up.

Bluefirepegasus


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## TheLorax (Dec 4, 2007)

Ask an Administrator to delete your e-mail address. I'm sure if they can they will. 

I'm sitting on a 1T hard drive that I am using all of maybe 80 GB and most of that is all photos so no problems. Can't help you in the beefing up of security deal. I get help when it comes to anything that is the "C" word as in computer. 

Here are two photos you sent me. I resized them so people on dial up wouldn't be struggling as bad. They are your Vanda-












editing to swap out plant names


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## TheLorax (Dec 4, 2007)

This is your Foxtail Orchid-


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## TheLorax (Dec 4, 2007)

These are all three of the Oncidium photos you sent me-
















editing to swap out plant names


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## Bluefirepegasus (Dec 4, 2007)

hey! they look great except the three together are oncidium and the top two are the vanda. I must have mislabeled them. 

One person said it might be bacteria on the oncidium and thai disease on the vanda. She suggested claries 333. What is that and what do you think?

Bluefirepegasus

Thanks again lorax!


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## TheLorax (Dec 4, 2007)

Sorry, I added them the way you labeled them and wasn't even paying attention it was so late. I will go and correct that for you right away!


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## Bluefirepegasus (Dec 4, 2007)

don't be sorry lorax, it was my mislable! Thanks for doing this for me. You are super sweet. 

Bluefirepegasus


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## NYEric (Dec 5, 2007)

I hate pseudobulbs!


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## goldenrose (Dec 5, 2007)

I doubt that this is mosiac virus, if it is then I have it too! Oncidiums can sometimes be challenging. Overwater & they rot, the roots can't take up water & the bulbs shrivel .........underwater & the bulbs shrivel, so which do you have? That new bulb looks fine, so it looks like it's been corrected. It's my understanding that once you have black spots on old growth it doesn't go away because you corrected the culture. I was given an oncidium to 'rescue' that looks like this. It was originally potted in LFS, after blooming the previous owner repotted it in a pot twice the size, just adding a rock/bark mix around it. What was pretty pitiful, is looking pretty good, so don't give up yet!


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## likespaphs (Dec 6, 2007)

unless you have citrus mealybugs, crypts won't be terribly effective as the long tailed don't lay their eggs in cottony masses where the crypts lay their eggs.
i don't think that it's too cold to use lacewing larvae inside unless your growing area is in the low 50's...
there's a place called critter creek labs that does orchid virus testing....


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## TheLorax (Dec 7, 2007)

Getting anything live anywhere at this time of year is a problem.

I did just find this online which would help-
http://www.nyworms.com/HeatPacks.htm

That link to the testing lab is excellent. I've always sent to Cornell when left up the creek without a paddle. Bet your lab is more affordable.


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## Candace (Dec 7, 2007)

Critter Creek labs runs like $4 per test. IMHO the plants may not be worth testing if they're easily replaceable or nonames. If you can replace it with a brand new one for $8-$10, then it's probably not worth the $ to test them. They may recover or may not, but I tend to chuck weak or nasty looking plants unless they're rare and worth my time to resusitate. Many oncidium types get this spotting for a few different reasons, though virus is always possible since many virused plants don't express it in the leaves. So, do you want to test or go on a shopping excursion?


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## NYEric (Dec 7, 2007)

How much plant material do you have to send them?


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## Candace (Dec 7, 2007)

They're located about 45 mins. from me. Here's what you do(from their site).

Use a clean (sterile) cutting tool for each plant sampled. THIS IS MOST IMPORTANT.
This is to protect your plants. The easiest way to transmit viruses is via contaminated cutting tools. We recommend using a new single-edge razor blade for each plant.

The blades can be reused after using one of the following methods:
# Heat in the oven @ 400 F for 3 hours
# Brush with soapy water and then soak for 15 minutes in saturated TSP or 1% lye solution
# Brush each blade in a 10% Clorox solution.

We prefer a 2 - 4 inch piece from the youngest fully developed leaf. For a large plant, select from 2 – 3 parts of the plant. We have also used flowers, green button root tips, and if a section of the plant has disturbing symptoms, send a piece of that also – especially where green borders a necrotic (blackened) area.

Place each sample in a heavy-duty plastic bag (i.e. zip-loc freezer bag). The reason we ask for a heavy-duty plastic bag is that we grind the samples in these bags. Lighter weight bags tear more easily when grinding. Don’t use paper towels or paper envelopes for samples as these allow samples to dry out or bleed across and contaminate other samples.

On the outside of each bag write an identifier of some sort—1-20, A-Z, 1050, etc. We prefer numbers or letters, but you can use names if you need to. Don’t put paper or plastic in with the samples. Who knows what kind of contaminates go in with them.

If you get any sap on your hands while handling a sample, wash in soapy water before handling the next plant.


And here's the pricing list:
The GREENHOUSE SCREENING PROGRAM offers you the chance to take advantage of ELISA's noted accuracy and our many years of ELISA experience for a very nominal fee. Samples can be fairly small and will be tested in a single well for each virus.
Prices for Greenhouse Screening
$5.00 each for 1-9 samples
$4.50 each for 10-20 samples
$4.25 each for 21 or more samples

For more valuable material and particularly for material to be used for meristemming or for stud plants, we recommend DOUBLE WELL ELISA. Each specimen is tested separately in 4 different wells-2 for each virus.
Prices for Double Well ELISA
$6.00 each for 1-9 samples
$5.50 each for 10-20 samples
$5.25 each for 21 or more samples

We will redo any questionable material before making our report, but if results are not conclusive, we will ask you to send fresh material in three weeks for retesting (without charge). If no retesting is necessary we should have a report to you within five business days of receiving the samples. We can mail, fax, or e-mail the results. Please send a check with your samples.
For Masdevallias and other allied genera, BYMV (a member of the poty-virus group) has been found in considerable occurrence.

Prices for BYMV test
$4.50 each for 1-9 samples $5.00 each for 1-9 samples double well
$4.00 each for 10+ samples $4.50 each for 10+ double well


The greenhouse screening testing is the general one that you'd use unless testing masdies.


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## TheLorax (Dec 8, 2007)

That's a bargain. Do they test anything other than orchids?


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## Candace (Dec 8, 2007)

www.crittercreeklab.com 

I'm sure they do.


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## Bluefirepegasus (Dec 9, 2007)

Well, I am happy to hear that for the oncidiums people are agreeing that it isn't mosaic virus. What do all of you think about the vanda pictures? Does that look like mosaic virus to you? 

Thanks for the lab info. I am going to do some more research and then if I think I have mosaic virus I will certainly send off. They are plants I want to keep so thank you everybody! 

Keep the advice coming! 

Bluefirepegasus


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## goldenrose (Dec 9, 2007)

Is the vanda potted? I'm wondering what the roots look like? Are they able to take up moisture/nutrients? I doubt that it is a virus, it looks similar to the oncidium, which would be telling me something in your culture is not quite right for this plant. They generally like it warm-hot & humid (but Roy has already shown it can be grown!).


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## NYEric (Dec 10, 2007)

I've heard that inside vanda's like their roots in clay puts to retain moisture. I killed all mine before I had a chance to try that!


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## Candace (Dec 10, 2007)

Bluefirepegasus, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but vandas aren't the best choice for indoor, beginner growers. Most vandas require at least 4,000 footcandles of light, high humidity and are very picky about temperature compared to many other types of orchids. I have seen a few people successfully bloom vandas in the house under supplemental lights, but even then there are fewer and smaller blooms on them compared to those grown outside in the tropics or in a g.h. You simply may not have the correct culture for it to thrive. For instance, I've got them at the tippity top of my g.h. in high light where they are submerged in fog from my fogging unit in the summer. They don't tolerate temps much below 55 degrees without sulking and are prone to fusarium and leaf drop when they are unhappy. Are you able to meet those general conditions?


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## Bluefirepegasus (Dec 10, 2007)

Candace, the humidity is a problem right now. But, I do have them in a spot in my house where they get direct full morning and afternoon sun. In the summer they were hung on my screened in porch where they got full afternoon sun. 

The root systems look great right now. They are growing profusely since I got them. One of them even has put out a little ki-ki. The roots are big and fat and get green right away when I water them. They are in plastic baskets with a little orchid bark and some perlite. They are being hung off the blinds right now. 

With water I am misting them twice a day but it may not be enough. They were both rescues from being thrown in the trash bin from lowes. I didn't know if I could grow them but it was either me or the trash that afternoon. I couldn't bear to see them go. They have both grown several new leaves and are continuing to grow more.

But, candace...I think you are 100 percent right....I don't think they are as happy as they could be in my house. I am trying to work up a design for building a little hut inside so I can get better humidity. Gah! I wish I had more money!  

So....right now without the money I am not sure I can do much more for them. I am fertilizing weakly weekly right now. Beyond that I am not sure. I want to invest in a humidifier when I can to help.

Bluefirepegasus


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## TheLorax (Dec 10, 2007)

Wet towels? In college I had a girlfriend who swore by hanging wet towels around her plants. Pebble trays can sort of work if they are really large but mostly any type of a humidity tray is more of a fancy drip tray and grouping all of your plants together can help. Maybe try all three at once? I don't know, I won't try vandas any more. I simply don't want to create the proper lighting for them.


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## NYEric (Dec 11, 2007)

Bluefirepegasus said:


> The root systems look great right now. They are growing profusely since I got them. One of them even has put out a little ki-ki. The roots are big and fat and get green right away when I water them. They have both grown several new leaves and are continuing to grow more.



Sounds like they're doiing everything but flowering and taking out the garbage. I'd say you're doing fine at this rate; if they make it through the dryness of the winter indoors they'll be fine.


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## Bluefirepegasus (Dec 14, 2007)

I sure hope so. One of them is the popular deep blue vanda with the checkerboard pattern on it. That is my fav kind of vanda so I am anxious to have it succeed. The other is the popular fuscia ascocenda that you see often. 

So, here's to them growing! 

Bluefirepegasus


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