# What's wrong with my Paph Bengal Lancers



## emydura (Sep 23, 2011)

My Paph Bengal Lancers (parishii x haynaldianum) is proving troublesome to say the least. Initially I could never get it to flower. I put it outside in Autumn this year to chill it and that seemed to work. Out came 2 spikes although a month apart. The first spike developed well until it got to the stage below from where the spike stopped growing and a closer inspection revealed that all 4 buds had died. I put it down to bad luck and hoped the 2nd spike would be more successful. Anyway that continued fine until it got to the exact same stage and all 4 buds died again. 

Any thoughts on what is going on. I've never had a real problem with buds blasting in general and there are plenty of Paphs around it flowering well. I haven't really heard of multi-florals doing this. Do you think it is the plant or problems with my culture?

It is frustrating as I have been growing this plant for many years and I have yet to flower it.

David


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## paphioboy (Sep 23, 2011)

Did the spikes develop outdoors as well? It might not have liked the recent erratic weather (cold gusty winds one second, warm and sunny the next)... Or could it be connected to the yellowing of the oldest growth?


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## emydura (Sep 23, 2011)

paphioboy said:


> Did the spikes develop outdoors as well? It might not have liked the recent erratic weather (cold gusty winds one second, warm and sunny the next)... Or could it be connected to the yellowing of the oldest growth?



No, the plant was growing in my glasshouse where conditions are petty stable. No, I don't think it is related to the old growth. That was the original growth and is many years old. That one never did flower.

David


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## ehanes7612 (Sep 23, 2011)

some lowii, haynaldianum and parishii can be difficult to retain water in its leaves, and dries out easily and there is little you can do to change it..(increasing frequency of watering is pointless as the plant just cant properly distribute the water, you can increase humidity to 80 or 90 percent but then you have other problems )...if those characteristics transferred to your plant then the buds could die as they need a tremendous amount of water to develop, as they tend to develop fast in these plants


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## SlipperFan (Sep 23, 2011)

Check the roots. I'm not sure that the yellow-orange color at the base of the plant is normal.


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## emydura (Sep 23, 2011)

Interestingly in the vicinity of my Bengal Lancers I have in flower a lowii, lowii x Michael Koopowitz, Berenice and a dianthum and they seem to be fine. Maybe something with this clone. The humidity is pretty well always above 50%, often above 65%. 

Here are the roots. They look OK to me. No new tips although we are just coming out of winter. Even though I watered the plants a few days ago, the mix was still wet, so I don't think it is drying out. I haven't repotted it for a while so I might do that now. 

David


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## gonewild (Sep 23, 2011)

You would be pale too if your pants were that tight. Could you here the plants sigh of relief as it came out of the pot? oke:


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## SlipperKing (Sep 23, 2011)

I'm thinking the samething Lance. too pot bound. I'd try potting it up in a shallow pan, say 9" X 12-14", 6" deep drill holes into the sides about 1" up from the bottom. Then lay gravel in the bottom before you pot it up. Spread the roots outward and add more gravel to the mix. Another idea is the fertilizer. K, as Rick as touched on so often is concentrated in the leaves as well as the flowers. Back off on the K after budding or maybe now. Too much K will give you leaf tip dieback (and maybe bud blast not sure on that)


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## Roth (Sep 24, 2011)

SlipperFan said:


> Check the roots. I'm not sure that the yellow-orange color at the base of the plant is normal.



I got this orangish whitish cast on praestans and sanderianum some years ago, at that time it was due to a very low magnesium content, but especially to an extremely high iron content, that was above toxicity levels. Some plants, and some colonies/strains/sources seem to be very prone to that. The magnesium deficiency and iron toxicity could well blast the flower spikes.

Might sound crazy, but try to add lime to the potting mix for that plant. That's how I solved it for my plants ( I know, Bengal Lancers is not supposed to have any calcicolous parents, but it worked for me, so...).


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## paphioboy (Sep 24, 2011)

amazing roots! the leaves do look a bit pale. a pinch of osmocote might help.


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## Brabantia (Sep 24, 2011)

paphioboy said:


> amazing roots! the leaves do look a bit pale. a pinch of osmocote might help.



Could you specify the type of Osmocote (NPK) please because I am interested.
Thanks.


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## Ozpaph (Sep 24, 2011)

I'd kill to grow plants with roots like that!! David, what mix are you using?


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## paphioboy (Sep 24, 2011)

Brabantia said:


> Could you specify the type of Osmocote (NPK) please because I am interested.
> Thanks.



I use the one for azalea and acid loving plants, if that helps. I use it for all orchids, tie about 2 heaped teaspoons in a cloth bag and put near the roots, leave it for the whole year. Multifloras and phalaenopsis love it.


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## gonewild (Sep 24, 2011)

Even though the roots are massive they could be the problem. When roots mass together they loose efficiency. The root hairs need to be in contact with media containing nutrients not other roots. When roots only touch other roots there is nothing for them to "eat". The roots grow so tightly together that they shed water that contains the fertilizer so the plant is not able to uptake the nutrients. The plant obviously wants to grow a massive root system so SlipperKing's advice is correct.


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## emydura (Sep 24, 2011)

paphioboy said:


> amazing roots! the leaves do look a bit pale. a pinch of osmocote might help.



In terms of the colour of the leaves people are focusing on a very old growth that is dying of natural causes. From the photo you are also mainly seeing the underneath of the leaf which is naturally lighter in colour. The leaves of the main growths are a nice green colour to me, but you may not be able to see those. 



SlipperKing said:


> I'm thinking the samething Lance. too pot bound. I'd try potting it up in a shallow pan, say 9" X 12-14", 6" deep drill holes into the sides about 1" up from the bottom. Then lay gravel in the bottom before you pot it up. Spread the roots outward and add more gravel to the mix. Another idea is the fertilizer. K, as Rick as touched on so often is concentrated in the leaves as well as the flowers. Back off on the K after budding or maybe now. Too much K will give you leaf tip dieback (and maybe bud blast not sure on that)



Thanks Rick. I'm not sure how you can spread the roots out. They are pretty rigid and entangled. A lot of roots would be broken trying to separate them. Actually the fertiliser I have been using has a fair amount of K in it. Thanks for the tip. 



Ozpaph said:


> I'd kill to grow plants with roots like that!! David, what mix are you using?



For that Paph, it was growing in Debco bark mixed with some charcoal and stones. Debco bark gets bagged out a bit but I find I get the greatest root growth in it. You have to sieve a lot of fine dust from it though. 



gonewild said:


> Even though the roots are massive they could be the problem. When roots mass together they loose efficiency. The root hairs need to be in contact with media containing nutrients not other roots. When roots only touch other roots there is nothing for them to "eat". The roots grow so tightly together that they shed water that contains the fertilizer so the plant is not able to uptake the nutrients. The plant obviously wants to grow a massive root system so SlipperKing's advice is correct.



Thanks Lance. A lot of my Paphs grow roots like that. I use to think it was a good thing. 

David


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## jtrmd (Sep 24, 2011)

I used to have a similar issue with plants that were too pot bound doing the same thing.I just trim the roots back now and havent had any issue since.


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## paphioboy (Sep 24, 2011)

emydura said:


> In terms of the colour of the leaves people are focusing on a very old growth that is dying of natural causes. From the photo you are also mainly seeing the underneath of the leaf which is naturally lighter in colour. The leaves of the main growths are a nice green colour to me, but you may not be able to see those.



I was referring to the second picture after you took it out of the pot. The new growths look kinda pale for a multifora. Perhaps it is just the lighting..


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## emydura (Nov 6, 2011)

I repotted this plant into a larger pot and put it in the corner and forgot about it. I meant to cut the spike off but it slipped my mine. To my surprise, I noticed 2 weeks later that the third bud was continuing to develop. Anyway here it is in flower. Not the greatest clone. The petal stance is a bit strange. Looks like it is in a wind tunnel. Chunky flower though. It would look a lot better if it had 2 spikes and 8 flowers as it was meant to.

I wasn't convinced 100% that the buds were aborting because it was so pot bound. But after the remaining 2 buds continued to develop after being repotted, I am now confident that this was the problem.

David


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## paphioboy (Nov 6, 2011)

Very nice... The petals look wide and very nice colour.. I wouldn't part with it for sure..


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## paphioboy (Nov 6, 2011)

Hmmm, on second glance, the flower shape is untypical of Bengal Lancers I see on the net. I think it might be Lebaudyanum instead.. Here's one that is very similar:
http://www.gparr.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/paphiopedilumlebaudyanum02.jpg


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## Roth (Nov 6, 2011)

Most likely Lebaudyanum ( and Lebaudyanum is famous for having twisting petals all on one direction on some flowerings).

There used to be a nursery with 5000 specimen size plants of Lebaudyanum and about 3000 plants of William Trelease x haynaldianum in Germany ( Wichmann in Celle). The WT x haynaldianum were amongst the largest leafed paphs I have ever seen, about the size of gigantifolium...


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## goldenrose (Nov 6, 2011)

The good news is you didn't lose the plant & it bloomed!
I'd have to agree with the last 2, here's my Bengal Lancers for comparison -


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## emydura (Nov 7, 2011)

paphioboy said:


> Hmmm, on second glance, the flower shape is untypical of Bengal Lancers I see on the net. I think it might be Lebaudyanum instead.. Here's one that is very similar:
> http://www.gparr.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/paphiopedilumlebaudyanum02.jpg





Roth said:


> Most likely Lebaudyanum ( and Lebaudyanum is famous for having twisting petals all on one direction on some flowerings).
> ...





goldenrose said:


> The good news is you didn't lose the plant & it bloomed!
> I'd have to agree with the last 2, here's my Bengal Lancers for comparison -
> 
> [/IMG]



Thanks guys. I thought it didn't look right. A bit too chunky. It is hard to see parishii in it. Good thing I bought a division of another clone of Bengal Lancers recently. Hopefully that one turns out alright.

David


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## paphioboy (Nov 7, 2011)

If you're in any way disappointed with this one, David, send it my way..


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## SlipperKing (Nov 7, 2011)

Did you ever figure out what the issue was with your plant? Did you repot into a larger, more roomier pot?


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## emydura (Nov 7, 2011)

SlipperKing said:


> Did you ever figure out what the issue was with your plant? Did you repot into a larger, more roomier pot?



Yes, I repotted it into a larger pot and the last two buds continued to develop on. So being so root bound was likely to be the cause.

David


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## NYEric (Nov 7, 2011)

Good save.


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