# C. Frans Hais (4N) (Horace ‘Maxima’ AM/AOS (4N) x trianae ‘Winter Giant’ (4N)



## southernbelle (Jul 20, 2020)

First bloom on this seedling from Orchids Ltd. Big, lovely flowers. First day of opening. Will repost again in 3 days.


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## monocotman (Jul 20, 2020)

Nice, I kept looking at that cross. I thought that it might be interesting!
David


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## Guldal (Jul 20, 2020)

That are some m.....f....... sized flowers! (pardon my French!)


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## PeteM (Jul 20, 2020)

southernbelle said:


> First bloom on this seedling from Orchids Ltd. Big, lovely flowers. First day of opening. Will repost again in 3 days. View attachment 21372



Wohhh. Aside from the large flowers, there is a serious operation going on in the background. I spy blooming charts and root after and before growth charts.. looks very clean and tidy.. like a properly run lab. I would very much like to see this space, and know what charts you have up that you find the most useful. Please!


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## Ozpaph (Jul 20, 2020)

very showy


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## abax (Jul 20, 2020)

Lovely colors and a very nice dorsal...very round for a Catt.


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## monocotman (Jul 21, 2020)

Angela, the roundness is the influence of Horace.
its produced something that looks like a super trianae,
David


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## setaylien (Jul 21, 2020)

southernbelle said:


> First bloom on this seedling from Orchids Ltd. Big, lovely flowers. First day of opening. Will repost again in 3 days. View attachment 21372


Very good quality: looks like a nice clone of Cattleya trianae. It already looks fully open. Being 4N the flowers may last a bit longer than average. Usual longevity of trianae flowers is about three weeks. Species trianae often has very good form so I doubt if you can say it is an improvement on its parents: they were already very good and this is not less good. I would keep it.


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## terryros (Jul 21, 2020)

Jerry Fischer re-made this old cross because there were no existing photos of Frans Hais AND he happened to have a gorgeous tetraploid trianae to use with classic Horace. Orchids Limited has bloomed a group of these and now Deborah has. Mine is in high sheath and I have my fingers crossed for a good one. Jerry has made a lot of Cattleya crosses and he thinks this is one of the very best that they have made.


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## southernbelle (Jul 21, 2020)

monocotman said:


> Nice, I kept looking at that cross. I thought that it might be interesting!
> David


I actually heard they think it's about the best cross they've ever made. That's saying something! He sent me a pic of one with even a wider lip that is blooming for the first time.


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## southernbelle (Jul 21, 2020)

Guldal said:


> That are some m.....f....... sized flowers! (pardon my French!)


The buds were beautifully large, so I was anticipating. I did measure it, but I actually forgot because don't do mm, I couldn't remember. I'll measure when I re-photo.


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## southernbelle (Jul 21, 2020)

PeteM said:


> Wohhh. Aside from the large flowers, there is a serious operation going on in the background. I spy blooming charts and root after and before growth charts.. looks very clean and tidy.. like a properly run lab. I would very much like to see this space, and know what charts you have up that you find the most useful. Please!


Happily, Pete. It's not really a lab. More of a grow room, as I don't do any hybridizing. No space (only 10' x 12)', or expertise. The charts with the black background are from Chadwick's. They give them to you if you visit their greenhouse (at least they did). Other things, are sizes of Orchiata to use for different plants, etc.; otes from Bill and Hadley on growing phrags and paphs from their classes. The one I follow religiously is my daylight hours (for my LEDs) and temps for each month. Although, I do experiment a little. I'll try to get a pic or I can share actual sheets if I have your email. Aren't you in VA? You are welcome to visit. We are near Rt. 3 & Rt. 20 near Locust Grove. I will try to post a pic of the room.


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## southernbelle (Jul 21, 2020)

terryros said:


> Jerry Fischer re-made this old cross because there were no existing photos of Frans Hais AND he happened to have a gorgeous tetraploid trianae to use with classic Horace. Orchids Limited has bloomed a group of these and now Deborah has. Mine is in high sheath and I have my fingers crossed for a good one. Jerry has made a lot of Cattleya crosses and he thinks this is one of the very best that they have made.


Thanks, Terry!! And I would not have it, but for your recommendation!!! And it would not be grown well, but for your generous sharing of your growing knowledge. You have, just about literally, taught me everything I know and mentored me through all my foibles and questions. I know I would have given up about a month after setting up my grow room had it not been for your generous sharing of knowledge over the last 4 years. Even though I'd been windowsill growing for 20 years I'd never bloomed anything but phals. I really had no idea what I was doing when I moved everything down to the room and I was really dangerous, because I didn't know I didn't know!! I've killed more than a few, but fortunately, not too many really good ones. And lately, I'm killing far fewer, thankfully, because of your help. Forever grateful!


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## southernbelle (Jul 21, 2020)

PeteM said:


> Wohhh. Aside from the large flowers, there is a serious operation going on in the background. I spy blooming charts and root after and before growth charts.. looks very clean and tidy.. like a properly run lab. I would very much like to see this space, and know what charts you have up that you find the most useful. Please!


Here is most of the room. I can’t get far enough back to get the whole thing. This shows 3 of my 4 4’ x 30” tables. I have 2 “boot” trays on each table that happen to fit the tables perfectly (4’x15” each. The work space and sink are to the right where the cabinet is and the wall with my stuff on it that you saw. Considering I only had about 30 plants when I did this, it was huge when I started 4 years ago. I can’t water everything weekly, it doesn’t work for me. So, I use colored tags and an app (Errands) that tells me what to water each day. i.e. Table 4 Pink, etc. If I go away I print a spreadsheet and can have someone water for me based on the table number and color of the tags. I also keep basic info on each plant in the app. More info than you wanted I’m sure, but did I say I am a detail person??!


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## PeteM (Jul 22, 2020)

southernbelle said:


> Here is most of the room. I can’t get far enough back to get the whole thing. This shows 3 of my 4 4’ x 30” tables. I have 2 “boot” trays on each table that happen to fit the tables perfectly (4’x15” each. The work space and sink are to the right where the cabinet is and the wall with my stuff on it that you saw. Considering I only had about 30 plants when I did this, it was huge when I started 4 years ago. I can’t water everything weekly, it doesn’t work for me. So, I use colored tags and an app (Errands) that tells me what to water each day. i.e. Table 4 Pink, etc. If I go away I print a spreadsheet and can have someone water for me based on the table number and color of the tags. I also keep basic info on each plant in the app. More info than you wanted I’m sure, but did I say I am a detail person??!
> View attachment 21377


Wow, fantastic thanks for sharing. Everything looks very 'green and clean'. I need to space out my collection like yours, I'm having issues with overcrowding and paying the price with constant bug suppression mostly small bouts of scale on the oldest cattleya growths and those awful mites have came out of nowhere.. but I was ready for them this time. Anyways, lotso rubbing alcohol, systemics and non toxic miticide (
AgroMagen (GS420), GrowSafe Bio-Pesticide, Natural Miticide, Fungicide and Insecticide, for Organic Gardening, Non-Toxic, Concentrate 8.5 Ounce
Learn more: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M983TRL/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_X5dgFbECV13PE ). This stuff works well for me, in a house with open windows. 

I am still trying to tweak my summer temps. If you recall I have an evaporative cooler I am testing this summer. planning to post on the results soon. Just waiting for this heatwave to come to an end so I have all the data on performance, I started running it 24/7 last Friday. I would very much like to see your charts, I am familiar with some of them, but if you have the time I would enjoy reviewing pictures or files you have especially the LED charts and the seasonal changes you make. I will you a Private Message with my email. 

Here are some pictures of my grow room with the evaporative cooler hooked up.. I have been bad about posting recent blooms.


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## Linus_Cello (Jul 22, 2020)

Pete- was the drain already in the basement when you moved in, or did you install it?


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## PeteM (Jul 22, 2020)

When we moved in I had the concrete busted out and the X shapes drain installed. All the 4 concrete sections are slightly sloped so excess water runs into the drains.. in this image, the drain running to the right is the lowest sloped so all the water is funneled into this, then dumps into a sump pump. I have screens running along the drain to catch big debris, so I do pull the tops off the drains and clean them out every so often. So far so good.


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## southernbelle (Jul 22, 2020)

PeteM said:


> Wow, fantastic thanks for sharing. Everything looks very 'green and clean'. I need to space out my collection like yours, I'm having issues with overcrowding and paying the price with constant bug suppression mostly small bouts of scale on the oldest cattleya growths and those awful mites have came out of nowhere.. but I was ready for them this time. Anyways, lotso rubbing alcohol, systemics and non toxic miticide (
> AgroMagen (GS420), GrowSafe Bio-Pesticide, Natural Miticide, Fungicide and Insecticide, for Organic Gardening, Non-Toxic, Concentrate 8.5 Ounce
> Learn more: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M983TRL/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_X5dgFbECV13PE ). This stuff works well for me, in a house with open windows.
> 
> ...


Your room is much larger and you look like you have space for lots more. I’ll look for your email. It should work now to message me.


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## southernbelle (Jul 22, 2020)

Ok, here are the photos now. Measurements across petals are 13mm, petal height 8mm


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## PeteM (Jul 22, 2020)

southernbelle said:


> Your room is much larger and you look like you have space for lots more. I’ll look for your email. It should work now to message me.


haha.. no more. I need to down size.. I've got plants barely hanging on to the sides of the benches..


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## PeteM (Jul 22, 2020)

southernbelle said:


> Ok, here are the photos now. Measurements across petals are 13mm, petal height 8mm
> View attachment 21383
> View attachment 21384


Wow. I like these photos more than the original. Makes a huge difference.


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## southernbelle (Jul 22, 2020)

PeteM said:


> Wow. I like these photos more than the original. Makes a huge difference.


Very unsophisticated set up. I use a black cloth background hanging from a shelf and 1-75 watt natural daylight 5,000 k bulb hanging from a rafter about 4’ back. That’s the only light nearby. . Taken with an iPhone X no flash. I always have HDR enabled in photos and never need a flash. Colors are very true this way.


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## DrLeslieEe (Jul 22, 2020)

southernbelle said:


> Ok, here are the photos now. Measurements across petals are 13mm, petal height 8mm
> View attachment 21383
> View attachment 21384


Great shaped flowers, reminiscent of the old trianae heirlooms like the ‘Grand Monarch’ and ‘Premier’. 

Are you sure your measurements are correct? 13 mm is 1.3 cm. Perhaps you mean 13 cm by 8 cm for petals? 

Also what is the natural spread, measured from left petal tip to right petal tip without flattening flower? And lip width?


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## SouthPark (Jul 22, 2020)

Those green stoppers on the top of those green sticks/skewers are a nice idea.


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## southernbelle (Jul 22, 2020)

DrLeslieEe said:


> Great shaped flowers, reminiscent of the old trianae heirlooms like the ‘Grand Monarch’ and ‘Premier’.
> 
> Are you sure your measurements are correct? 13 mm is 1.3 cm. Perhaps you mean 13 cm by 8 cm for petals?
> 
> Also what is the natural spread, measured from left petal tip to right petal tip without flattening flower? And lip width?


You are gracious, I know I must have made you chuckle. I said I don’t do metric! NS is 13 cm, petal height is 8 cm, lip width 5.5 cm.


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## southernbelle (Jul 22, 2020)

SouthPark said:


> Those green stoppers on the top of those green sticks/skewers are a nice idea.


They keep me from poking my eyes out. They came from Chula Orchids. Rubber Tips for 12 gauge wire part number: #TIPS


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## SouthPark (Jul 23, 2020)

southernbelle said:


> They keep me from poking my eyes out. They came from Chula Orchids. Rubber Tips for 12 gauge wire part number: #TIPS


They are a GREAT idea. They can certainly eliminate chances of eye accidents that's for sure. Excellent.


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## setaylien (Jul 23, 2020)

southernbelle said:


> Ok, here are the photos now. Measurements across petals are 13mm, petal height 8mm
> View attachment 21383
> View attachment 21384


I find these flowers to be very similar to C. Horace 'Maxima' : there is very little difference.
I am sure you mean your measurements to be in cm, not mm! Here in Canada we use the metric system generally. 
The influence of C. trianae 'Winter Giant' is not noticeable. Very good flowers in any case. Your LED lamps are working out well. I use HID lamps partly because I need the daytime warmth: no problem with overheating here in Vancouver except for the cool and cold growers which need an evaporative cooler only in the Summer.


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## southernbelle (Jul 23, 2020)

setaylien said:


> I find these flowers to be very similar to C. Horace 'Maxima' : there is very little difference.
> I am sure you mean your measurements to be in cm, not mm! Here in Canada we use the metric system generally.
> The influence of C. trianae 'Winter Giant' is not noticeable. Very good flowers in any case. Your LED lamps are working out well. I use HID lamps partly because I need the daytime warmth: no problem with overheating here in Vancouver except for the cool and cold growers which need an evaporative cooler only in the Summer.


Yes, I meant cm


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## terryros (Jul 23, 2020)

Deborah, you wanted to measure from the tip of one petal to the tip of the other petal in cm. Use the natural spread of the petals (don’t spread them further out). I am thinking it should be at least 17 cm and could be more.


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## SouthPark (Jul 23, 2020)

To increase the 'natural spread' - it's possible to unnaturally position the flower for a little while - and make it point skywards for a day or so heheh. And gravity could help the petals spread out a bit more and stay like that (become set maybe). Not suggesting others should do this though heheh.


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## Ozpaph (Jul 24, 2020)

that's nice, too


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