# A possibly interesting idea, what do you all think?



## Carmella.carey (Jun 6, 2022)

Here's an idea, what if people took pictures of their grow spaces since videos are fiddley to upload. talk about their general conditions, what type of plants they grow and Answering other's questions.
Patrick


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## Cklinger (Jun 8, 2022)

I'll have to make a reminder to take a picture after work, I think this is pretty interesting since I'm also curious about people's grow area


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## Carmella.carey (Jun 8, 2022)

Cklinger said:


> I'll have to make a reminder to take a picture after work, I think this is pretty interesting since I'm also curious about people's grow area


I will do mine tomorrow Thursday if its sunny out.
Patrick


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## Cklinger (Jun 9, 2022)

I have an 18” x 18” x 24” enclosure that currently stays around 76 F and 60-70% RH. It used to be more crammed so I moved some to an east facing window.


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## Carmella.carey (Jun 9, 2022)

Cklinger said:


> I have an 18” x 18” x 24” enclosure that currently stays around 76 F and 60-70% RH. It used to be more crammed so I moved some to an east facing window.


What a lovely little paph house 
Patrick


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## Carmella.carey (Jun 9, 2022)

I have a 12 x 8 foot greenhouse in Virginia. the back wall is south facing and it has 80% shade on and the right hand wall both roof panels and about a foot of the left hand wall has 50% shade on. the front wall has no shade it is east facing and gets no sun. My minimum temp is 5 degrees C. 41 degrees F. and my maximum temp is 40 degrees C. 100 degrees F. Humidity is between 40 to 90% I water with a garden hose with a shower attachment. I grow mainly cattleya alliance plants and a mix of other genera.
Patrick


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## Carmella.carey (Jun 9, 2022)

Cklinger said:


> I have an 18” x 18” x 24” enclosure that currently stays around 76 F and 60-70% RH. It used to be more crammed so I moved some to an east facing window.


How do you water your plants? What is that orange dendrobium is it unicum?
Patrick


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## Phragper (Jun 9, 2022)

growing in the greenhouse
18 x 24 with 77% shade cloth over double layer of plastic with blower inflating between layers
have 32 gal trash can with aquarium heater ( for heating water in winter) and a pond pump with tubing attached to water all the orchids 
thermostat controlled fan which automatically comes on opening up ventsand pulls air thru
the empty space is only empty in sumner as cymbidiums go outside and then return
have had a greenhouse since 1990 and every minute spent in it is joy


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## SlipperKing (Jun 9, 2022)

My GH is south of Houston in the Texas blazing sun. I use very little shade cloth. Only on the west wall, double layer of 70% (I think) and on 1/4 of the roof. It can be bright but typically the inside temp is 10F lower then the outside. Currently the cooler end is 82, the hot end is 88 and the outside temp is 97.
The west wall


The east with it rolled up, out of use and the roof



I collect rain for watering 


Which is gravity fed into this 55 gal tank in the floor of the GH. Then fertilizer is mixed in the 55 and pumped out


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## SlipperKing (Jun 9, 2022)

On the south wall is the workhorse, a wet wall. In the pic you can see a 24 inch fan at the peak of the GH. The fan is wired to the water pump running the wall which is connected to a thermostat. When the wal comes on so does the fan drawing cool air up from the wall and blowing it to the north end. 


The north end has three 24 inch, 240v fans blowing air out. All 3 are on individual thermostats set at different temps.



PS. I do have a pc of shade cloth on the door so no one can see me enjoying the cool breezy GH!


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## Cklinger (Jun 9, 2022)

Carmella.carey said:


> How do you water your plants? What is that orange dendrobium is it unicum?
> Patrick


When the false bottom (LECA layer) runs low on water, I’ll just use a watering can inside, but usually I’ll take them to the sink and water them in there. And yes, it’s a Dendrobium unicum, unfortunately there’s no scent coming from it at all which was a bummer!


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## Cklinger (Jun 9, 2022)

SlipperKing said:


> I collect rain for watering


Just curious, did you need to apply for a permit to collect rain water? Here in Oregon you need one to collect, but they seem pretty difficult to get. A farm within the company I work for has 10 greenhouses, each one using around 300 gallons a day/every other day and they were denied a permit for some reason.


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## SlipperKing (Jun 9, 2022)

I never ask and I've been collecting rain since 93.


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## abax (Jun 9, 2022)

Good SK...don't ask, don't tell.


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## Carmella.carey (Jun 9, 2022)

Phragper said:


> growing in the greenhouse
> 18 x 24 with 77% shade cloth over double layer of plastic with blower inflating between layers
> have 32 gal trash can with aquarium heater ( for heating water in winter) and a pond pump with tubing attached to water all the orchids
> thermostat controlled fan which automatically comes on opening up ventsand pulls air thru
> ...


How warm do you heat the water?
Patrick


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## Carmella.carey (Jun 9, 2022)

SlipperKing said:


> On the south wall is the workhorse, a wet wall. In the pic you can see a 24 inch fan at the peak of the GH. The fan is wired to the water pump running the wall which is connected to a thermostat. When the wal comes on so does the fan drawing cool air up from the wall and blowing it to the north end. View attachment 34903
> 
> 
> The north end has three 24 inch, 240v fans blowing air out. All 3 are on individual thermostats set at different temps.
> ...


It seems like the wet wall really helps with the Texas heat.
Patrick


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## Phragper (Jun 10, 2022)

Carmella.carey said:


> How warm do you heat the water?
> Patrick


80-85


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## merc (Jun 10, 2022)

here's my little office orchid shelf (14” D x 36" W x 46" H) the fans cycle is on for 3h, off for 1h. the cheapo amazon full spectrum LED lights are daisy-chained and are set to run for 6h each day. i water x1 a week and let the run off fill the humidity trays, which keep the orchids at roughly 50-75% humidity.


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## SlipperKing (Jun 10, 2022)

Very nice Merc


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## Cearbhael (Jun 11, 2022)

SlipperKing said:


> I never ask and I've been collecting rain since 93.


The reason they require permits to collect rain water (and don’t like to give them) is that water is a big income for towns and cities! Keep the collector in the back and behind a screen so neighbours can’t squeal on you! Stupid to deny anyone the right to collect free water falling out of the sky LOL! Just because it falls inside the city limits they feel they have the right to control your access to it! SHEESH! If it is landing on your property you should be able to catch it for whatever you want to use it for


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## Anca86 (Jun 11, 2022)

merc said:


> here's my little office orchid shelf (14” D x 36" W x 46" H) the fans cycle is on for 3h, off for 1h. the cheapo amazon full spectrum LED lights are daisy-chained and are set to run for 6h each day. i water x1 a week and let the run off fill the humidity trays, which keep the orchids at roughly 50-75% humidity.
> 
> View attachment 34932


Very nice! What fans are those? How far from the lights do you have the orchids?
Thanks


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## Linus_Cello (Jun 11, 2022)

Whiskey is for drinking, water is for fighting.


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## Duck Slipper (Jun 11, 2022)

Cklinger said:


> Just curious, did you need to apply for a permit to collect rain water? Here in Oregon you need one to collect, but they seem pretty difficult to get. A farm within the company I work for has 10 greenhouses, each one using around 300 gallons a day/every other day and they were denied a permit for some reason.


Jeez…Something wrong with this world if we have to ask to collect rainwater. My old house has an old cistern that still works. Gutters drain to it…I never asked anyone either.


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## Carmella.carey (Jun 11, 2022)

merc said:


> here's my little office orchid shelf (14” D x 36" W x 46" H) the fans cycle is on for 3h, off for 1h. the cheapo amazon full spectrum LED lights are daisy-chained and are set to run for 6h each day. i water x1 a week and let the run off fill the humidity trays, which keep the orchids at roughly 50-75% humidity.
> 
> View attachment 34932


Do they get any natural light?
Patrick


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## cnycharles (Jun 12, 2022)

I was just overhearing someone at work (greenhouse grown perennial seedlings) mention that restrictions against collecting rainwater existed such that it has become a non possible for greenhouse companies wanting to utilize rainwater. I vaguely remember there being some stipulation that there was supposed to be some ‘release’ after some point which made it unpractical
…and that’s about as specific as I was able to overhear :/ . Common sense doesn’t seem to apply to much in the world anymore :/


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## My Green Pets (Jun 13, 2022)

Colorado also has unique rainwater harvesting laws and water rights are an important specification in real estate. 
This type of regulation doesn't exist in wet states, but out here in the desert water rights are specified and taken very seriously. 

Here's the rain barrel policy in this state.


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## Hien (Jun 13, 2022)

cnycharles said:


> I was just overhearing someone at work (greenhouse grown perennial seedlings) mention that restrictions against collecting rainwater existed such that it has become a non possible for greenhouse companies wanting to utilize rainwater. I vaguely remember there being some stipulation that there was supposed to be some ‘release’ after some point which made it unpractical
> …and that’s about as specific as I was able to overhear :/ . Common sense doesn’t seem to apply to much in the world anymore :/


one day they will come up with permit requirement for sunlight , then moonlight , then permit for wind, then for how much air can one breaths in, in the fashion of the "boiling frog tale"...Gone were the days the Americans thought just the Tea Tax alone was a bad idea... guess we are tamed and domesticated quite well .
What happens to "Land of The free, Home of The Brave" ? how sad !


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## eds (Jun 13, 2022)

The ironic thing is that we may have given you the tea tax but we have the rights to the water (and anything else) that lands on our property (there are restrictions on water flowing through your property. Admittedly we don't have quite the issue with water as you guys do but we waste so much as a nation through leaky water pipes that we are likely to see hose pipe restrictions in areas this summer.


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## merc (Jun 13, 2022)

Anca86 said:


> Very nice! What fans are those? How far from the lights do you have the orchids?
> Thanks


The fans are cheapo upHere Halo Ring Led 140mm case fans connected to a ZRM&E PC Fan Speed Controller 8 Way Cooling Fan Hub. They're quiet compared to the oscillating fan I used to have, but not completely silent. 

We bought a 3 pack of smarplugs from Costco and hooked the fans up to our Home Assistant. I need to figure out a hub for the lights so I can also hook those puppies up to our Home Assistant. PSA: The Costco smart plugs are garbage. Constantly losing connection and requires manually unplugging/plugging-back-in to get it to reconnect to network so Home Assistant can control them.

The plants are 3-6" from the LED lights. Unfortunately, they don't receive any natural light since my office is essentially a small, windowless cubby.


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## Anca86 (Jun 13, 2022)

Than


merc said:


> The fans are cheapo upHere Halo Ring Led 140mm case fans connected to a ZRM&E PC Fan Speed Controller 8 Way Cooling Fan Hub. They're quiet compared to the oscillating fan I used to have, but not completely silent.
> 
> We bought a 3 pack of smarplugs from Costco and hooked the fans up to our Home Assistant. I need to figure out a hub for the lights so I can also hook those puppies up to our Home Assistant. PSA: The Costco smart plugs are garbage. Constantly losing connection and requires manually unplugging/plugging-back-in to get it to reconnect to network so Home Assistant can control them.
> 
> The plants are 3-6" from the LED lights. Unfortunately, they don't receive any natural light since my office is essentially a small, windowless cubby.


Thank you for the details!


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## southernbelle (Jun 14, 2022)

Here’s mine: 9 x 12 indoor climate controlled. Lights are ALT LED 5,000 K (natural sunlight), high intensity, 60 degree T5 tubes (4ft). Each tube draws 50 watts energy. I use 1 tube for Paphs; 2 for regular cattleyas and 3 for high light catts. (Fixtures hold 1-3 tubes). Lights hang on carabiner cords from 8’ ceiling so can be adjusted to any height to achieve correct PAR. Lights on all catts are +- 24” above leaf canopy. For Paphs a little more. This produces the PAR they all need. Lights only raise temp of room about 5 degrees. They are all together on a timed switch that runs them from 11.5 to 13.5 hrs. per day depending on the month of the year. I love the headroom my lights give me as room would be claustrophobic with them close to plants. Fixtures can be made to hold 1-6 lights. You choose. (Orchids Ltd.)

Temps range from Hi-84/Lo-70 in summer to Hi-72/Lo-62 in winter. No windows in room (in basement), so I open and close the door from day/night and use fans/heater to control temps. Humidifier keeps it at 50-55 humidity summer and 55-60 winter.

I water in the sink with a 1/2 HP pump pulling my fertilized R/O water from a 10 gal trash can through a curly hose with small wand. I use an app (Errands) and color coded tag to know what plants to water each day (rather than every 7 days, etc. for all). Table #4 RED for instance.

I grow on 4’ x 30” tables that each hold 2 plastic boot trays perfectly, in clear plastic pots in Orchiata/ charcoal/perlite mix sized to pot size. I also grow about 10 Phrags and 4 phals upstairs in my bathroom East/SouthEast large bay windows at ambient room temp in mostly bark mix, but some are in rockwool/leca mix. The Phrags did not like the 84 degree temps of grow room.
I have about 89 plants. 75 in grow room and 14 upstairs.
Cattleyas are large, many in 10” pots, so trays are quite crowded right now awaiting division and gifting. When they bloom I move them up to our living area window to enjoy them.


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## Carmella.carey (Jun 14, 2022)

southernbelle said:


> Here’s mine: 9 x 12 indoor climate controlled. Lights are ALT LED 5,000 K (natural sunlight), high intensity, 60 degree T5 tubes (4ft). Each tube draws 50 watts energy. I use 1 tube for Paphs; 2 for regular cattleyas and 3 for high light catts. (Fixtures hold 1-3 tubes). Lights hang on carabiner cords from 8’ ceiling so can be adjusted to any height to achieve correct PAR. Lights on all catts are +- 24” above leaf canopy. For Paphs a little more. This produces the PAR they all need. Lights only raise temp of room about 5 degrees. They are all together on a timed switch that runs them from 11.5 to 13.5 hrs. per day depending on the month of the year. I love the headroom my lights give me as room would be claustrophobic with them close to plants. Fixtures can be made to hold 1-6 lights. You choose. (Orchids Ltd.)
> 
> Temps range from Hi-84/Lo-70 in summer to Hi-72/Lo-62 in winter. No windows in room (in basement), so I open and close the door from day/night and use fans/heater to control temps. Humidifier keeps it at 50-55 humidity summer and 55-60 winter.
> 
> ...


When you water what happens to the run off in the trays?
Patrick


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## Carmella.carey (Jun 14, 2022)

southernbelle said:


> Here’s mine: 9 x 12 indoor climate controlled. Lights are ALT LED 5,000 K (natural sunlight), high intensity, 60 degree T5 tubes (4ft). Each tube draws 50 watts energy. I use 1 tube for Paphs; 2 for regular cattleyas and 3 for high light catts. (Fixtures hold 1-3 tubes). Lights hang on carabiner cords from 8’ ceiling so can be adjusted to any height to achieve correct PAR. Lights on all catts are +- 24” above leaf canopy. For Paphs a little more. This produces the PAR they all need. Lights only raise temp of room about 5 degrees. They are all together on a timed switch that runs them from 11.5 to 13.5 hrs. per day depending on the month of the year. I love the headroom my lights give me as room would be claustrophobic with them close to plants. Fixtures can be made to hold 1-6 lights. You choose. (Orchids Ltd.)
> 
> Temps range from Hi-84/Lo-70 in summer to Hi-72/Lo-62 in winter. No windows in room (in basement), so I open and close the door from day/night and use fans/heater to control temps. Humidifier keeps it at 50-55 humidity summer and 55-60 winter.
> 
> ...


When you water what happens to the run off in the trays?
Patrick


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## southernbelle (Jun 15, 2022)

Carmella.carey said:


> When you water what happens to the run off in the trays?
> Patrick


I water at the sink. The trays only catch a minor amount of run off when I put them back in their places in the trays.


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## merc (Jun 15, 2022)

southernbelle said:


> I have about 89 plants. 75 in grow room and 14 upstairs.


 I love your grow room setup! So much room to move about. I am especially jealous of the sink right next to all the plants. That's brilliant! This is an awesome idea that I hope to be able to recreate in our house or workshop someday.

I envy everyone with a greenhouse setup, but a greenhouse is simply impractical here in the woods.


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## LadySlipper (Jun 15, 2022)

southernbelle said:


> I water in the sink with a 1/2 HP pump pulling my fertilized R/O water from a 10 gal trash can through a curly hose with small wand. I use an app (Errands) and color coded tag to know what plants to water each day (rather than every 7 days, etc. for all). Table #4 RED for instance.


Amazing setup. Are the trays light enough to handle when you water?


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## southernbelle (Jun 16, 2022)

Thank you, merc. I honestly did not want to deal with the maintenance and cleaning of a greenhouse plus the plumbing/heating/cooling for VA’s climate was going to make it quite costly. Because my plants are so large at this time, it feels really tight but that will be alleviated before long. The only maintenance here is changing the filters on the R/O and sweeping up the bark that falls on the floor. And, it’s easy to climate control although the lows are not as low as are optimal, but Catts and Paphs don’t seem to notice and bloom like champs. 
I put the large sink and cabinets in this area when we built to have a place to condition and arrange roses, as that was my passion until my knees said ‘no more’, so all it involved was adding one wall/door to close off the area. Wish it was a bit larger, but you know how that goes… then I’d just get more plants and…


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## southernbelle (Jun 16, 2022)

LadySlipper said:


> Amazing setup. Are the trays light enough to handle when you water?


I don’t pick up a whole tray. I pick up plants individually, place them on a tray by the sink, then water over the sink, let them drain and return them to their places. The trays on the tables collect the minimal water that is still draining, but dries quickly because of the fans circulating the air. I usually have between 10 and 20 plants that I water each day. I use an app called Errands and color coded tags so they are in the app by (tray) #1 RED and I pull them that way. The advantage of this app is it automatically repeats from the day an item is checked off the list, not the day it was scheduled to be done, if I’m adjusting a day or so. Small 2” seedlings water every 2-3 days, 10” catts can go 10-12 days depending on time of year. I try to check those scheduled for ‘tomorrow’, especially during the warm growing season to make sure I don’t need to adjust by a day. Here is a closer photo of the sink area:


They rotate from the tray on the left counter 4 or 5 at a time are watered over the sink (foliage is kept dry) then placed on the drain board on the right if need be for space, then are returned to their spots. My trays are labeled by color of their tags, so the always go back in the same place with colored tag facing front so light orientation does not change (for the most part). It sounds complicated, but it’s really not (once I got it figured out.) I usually spend 30-60 minutes a day watering, checking things, disinfecting tools. This enables me to closely examine plants each time they are watered and and nip any disease or insect problems in the bud. Disease is very rare as humidity is controlled and foliage stays dry. Now that I use Safari granules (mostly) sprinkled on top of mix for pests when needed, pests are easy to control. Scale and fungus gnats had been my nemesis, but that makes them easy to control as I can’t spray without moving plants outside which is a pain!! Oh, I also use stretchy ties to train catts to grow vertically instead of reaching out sideways, so they take less space.


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## LadySlipper (Jun 17, 2022)

southernbelle said:


> I don’t pick up a whole tray. I pick up plants individually, place them on a tray by the sink, then water over the sink, let them drain and return them to their places. The trays on the tables collect the minimal water that is still draining, but dries quickly because of the fans circulating the air. I usually have between 10 and 20 plants that I water each day. I use an app called Errands and color coded tags so they are in the app by (tray) #1 RED and I pull them that way.


Incredible. You're so highly systematic. How much time do you enjoy with your plants daily?


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## Cklinger (Jun 17, 2022)

southernbelle said:


> Safari granules


What are Safari granules? Sounds interesting since I’ve been seeing a fungus gnat or two.


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## southernbelle (Jun 17, 2022)

LadySlipper said:


> Incredible. You're so highly systematic. How much time do you enjoy with your plants daily?


Usually 30 min- 1 hr for daily watering. Of course that does not include any repotting.


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## southernbelle (Jun 17, 2022)

Cklinger said:


> What are Safari granules? Sounds interesting since I’ve been seeing a fungus gnat or two.


Safari is a systemic granular insecticide. Google it, I don’t remember the chemical in it. It is very broad-spectrum and kills just about everything, According to its label.


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## southernbelle (Jun 17, 2022)

Cklinger said:


> What are Safari granules? Sounds interesting since I’ve been seeing a fungus gnat or two.


I don’t think I would use it for a fungus gnats only. Those are pretty easy to mostly control with sticky traps. I would reserve Safari for scale, mites, maybe a bad infestation of mealy bugs. Something that was not easily eradicated.


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## Carmella.carey (Jun 17, 2022)

southernbelle said:


> I don’t pick up a whole tray. I pick up plants individually, place them on a tray by the sink, then water over the sink, let them drain and return them to their places. The trays on the tables collect the minimal water that is still draining, but dries quickly because of the fans circulating the air. I usually have between 10 and 20 plants that I water each day. I use an app called Errands and color coded tags so they are in the app by (tray) #1 RED and I pull them that way. The advantage of this app is it automatically repeats from the day an item is checked off the list, not the day it was scheduled to be done, if I’m adjusting a day or so. Small 2” seedlings water every 2-3 days, 10” catts can go 10-12 days depending on time of year. I try to check those scheduled for ‘tomorrow’, especially during the warm growing season to make sure I don’t need to adjust by a day. Here is a closer photo of the sink area:
> View attachment 35063
> 
> They rotate from the tray on the left counter 4 or 5 at a time are watered over the sink (foliage is kept dry) then placed on the drain board on the right if need be for space, then are returned to their spots. My trays are labeled by color of their tags, so the always go back in the same place with colored tag facing front so light orientation does not change (for the most part). It sounds complicated, but it’s really not (once I got it figured out.) I usually spend 30-60 minutes a day watering, checking things, disinfecting tools. This enables me to closely examine plants each time they are watered and and nip any disease or insect problems in the bud. Disease is very rare as humidity is controlled and foliage stays dry. Now that I use Safari granules (mostly) sprinkled on top of mix for pests when needed, pests are easy to control. Scale and fungus gnats had been my nemesis, but that makes them easy to control as I can’t spray without moving plants outside which is a pain!! Oh, I also use stretchy ties to train catts to grow vertically instead of reaching out sideways, so they take less space.


So you use Safari too I got a little confused when I found out that there's water soluble and granular forms. I spray my plants with it.
Patrick


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## Carmella.carey (Jun 17, 2022)

southernbelle said:


> I don’t think I would use it for a fungus gnats only. Those are pretty easy to mostly control with sticky traps. I would reserve Safari for scale, mites, maybe a bad infestation of mealy bugs. Something that was not easily eradicated.


I agree, its pretty expensive for something like knats.
Patrick


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## southernbelle (Jun 18, 2022)

Carmella.carey said:


> So you use Safari too I got a little confused when I found out that there's water soluble and granular forms. I spray my plants with it.
> Patrick


I think we are talking about the same thing, Patrick. The granular (water solvable) is what you would use to dissolve in water to spray. A grower told me to use it dry, sprinkled on top of wet mix (bark, it is approved for drenching). Then, every time you water more releases. Sort of like imidacloprid, which was talked about at our meeting being used that way by Chadwick’s. It covers all insect’s except mites (suppresses thrips). Imidacloprid covers thrips. If I need more than one application on a heavily infested plant, I switch to imidacloprid so resistance does not occur. For mites I use Avid.


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## Carmella.carey (Jun 18, 2022)

southernbelle said:


> I think we are talking about the same thing, Patrick. The granular (water solvable) is what you would use to dissolve in water to spray. A grower told me to use it dry, sprinkled on top of wet mix (bark, it is approved for drenching). Then, every time you water more releases. Sort of like imidacloprid, which was talked about at our meeting being used that way by Chadwick’s. It covers all insect’s except mites (suppresses thrips). Imidacloprid covers thrips. If I need more than one application on a heavily infested plant, I switch to imidacloprid so resistance does not occur. For mites I use Avid.


Stan from the VOS told me it worked well sprinkled on the top of the media. I spray my plants with it but I think I'll try it like this now that I know two people who use it this way.
Patrick


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## southernbelle (Jun 18, 2022)

So far I’m a month since application and have 2 plants that have required re-application. These two were the worst infestations of scale. I’ve seen very minor recurrence Lon them, but treated again. I probably should have retreated at 21 days per label. Next treatment if needed will be imidacloprid. . Stan Baker is who told me about this, as well. He uses ¼ teas per plant. I used ¼ teas for 4-5”; ½ for 6-7; ¾ for 8; 1 teas for 9-10 inch. It takes that much for me to cover the surface of the bark reasonably well. I treated everything once because many had scale to one degree or another. I’ve been fighting it for 2 years trying to spray affected plants, but there were always some I missed.


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## cnycharles (Jun 21, 2022)

If you are trying to use a systemic for scale and mealy bug, then a good plan would be to have a container to dunk and hold the whole plant into. Granules on top repeatedly is just breeding resistant pests. If you dunk a dry plant and keep it dunked in liquid , you’ve reached every part of the plant. No spray mist floating around 

Peroxide likely would kill gnat larvae; sundews or yellow sticky cards are pleasing)


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## southernbelle (Jun 22, 2022)

cnycharles said:


> If you are trying to use a systemic for scale and mealy bug, then a good plan would be to have a container to dunk and hold the whole plant into. Granules on top repeatedly is just breeding resistant pests. If you dunk a dry plant and keep it dunked in liquid , you’ve reached every part of the plant. No spray mist floating around
> 
> Peroxide likely would kill gnat larvae; sundews or yellow sticky cards are pleasing)


I agree, if the same chemical is used repeatedly, however, rotating chemicals with different modes of action each time prevents resistance. And, we’re just talking about 2-3 applications max. The problem with dunking (for those of us concerned about virus) is the solution/container would have to be changed or disinfected for each plant, which would be prohibitive if more than a couple. I learned from Keith Davis, from his work with UNC, that virus can be spread in run off.


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## cnycharles (Jun 22, 2022)

southernbelle said:


> I agree, if the same chemical is used repeatedly, however, rotating chemicals with different modes of action each time prevents resistance. And, we’re just talking about 2-3 applications max. The problem with dunking (for those of us concerned about virus) is the solution/container would have to be changed or disinfected for each plant, which would be prohibitive if more than a couple. I learned from Keith Davis, from his work with UNC, that virus can be spread in run off.



True. 
An alternative is to mix up a five gallon bucket of the liquid, flow it through and over the plants, wetting all, letting it sit in its own saucer (or not) and drench each pot individually. No mist floating around and better coverage. Theoretically, a bucket, aquarium water pump and plastic tubing can be used for moving liquids. As always, follow the label
If you are not eradicating with pellets, then a better method would be needed. Why keep repeating what isn’t getting rid of them, if you can change and do so? With a systemic, your physical application may only be a few times a year, but the internal chemical will have like a half life of decreasing amount and effectiveness. When it gets weaker, the bugs that didn’t get killed will become more resistant to being exposed to non lethal doses
But, if it is working and the repeated pellets are for newly introduced bugs, then it’s working and doesn’t need changing


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## cnycharles (Jun 26, 2022)

One thing to point out, is that there are many chemicals which used to work very well, but they were over-used, or used at the wrong time or for the wrong pest. One of the greatest problems in applying chemicals is that most ever produced now have resistant pests or diseases and no longer work. There are now biological fungicides and insecticides which work very well used in rotations to keep bugs and disease away so are better suited to prevent resistant pests. It’s important to not use a single chemical all of the time, and just use things which the label says should be used on these plants, at this time, for this long. You may say to yourself ‘this is so convenient , and it seems to work for everything’… but you are making resistant pests, and soon it won’t work at all, and you will curse the chemical wondering why it stopped working all of a sudden. And if you are a wholesaler/retailer and your plants get distributed with these newly resistant bugs or diseases, you have now spread a new plague for everyone else. Even the casual grower bringing their orchids to meetings or shows, are potentially spreading their resistant organisms to everyone else. 
There are very few new chemicals coming along out of the pipelines of the pesticide companies, so we all really need to protect the things we have available that work, and help protect others who also need these chemicals to work, and to become educated on these things, and to help educate others. Because plants go every which way, and the resistant bugs with them
Happy growing!


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## Cklinger (Jun 26, 2022)

cnycharles said:


> There are now biological fungicides and insecticides which work very well used in rotations to keep bugs and disease away so are better suited to prevent resistant pests.


I completely agree! At the grow, I order a product called NoFly, which contains spores of the entomopathogenic fungus Isaria fumosoroseus. It infects the pest which stops them from eating, then when they die the spores get released to other nearby pests. 

Another method of IPM I use at the farm is through beneficial insects which is our sole method of dealing with pests and preventing them. For example, I order rove beetles if we have a bad fungus gnat infestation, and order Stratiolaelaps scimitus (predatory mite) as a preventative since they’ll feed on mite eggs, fungus gnat larvae, as well as root aphids. If you look on Arbico-organics.com, you’ll find a plethora of beneficial mites/insects for numerous needs, and they can even establish their own colonies so that you don’t have to keep re-ordering from them. I highly recommend using beneficials if you’re growing in a greenhouse/indoors since it’ll remain in a somewhat closed area.


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## cnycharles (Jun 26, 2022)

We use mites and nematodes for thrip, and mites for other mites. I hadn’t heard of a mite for root aphids. We also use no fly but with a mix that increases it’s effectiveness


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## Cklinger (Jun 26, 2022)

cnycharles said:


> We use mites and nematodes for thrip, and mites for other mites. I hadn’t heard of a mite for root aphids. We also use no fly but with a mix that increases it’s effectiveness


Do you mind if I ask what the other mix is? A neighboring farm has been using No Fly for a pest issue so this might help them out more


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## cnycharles (Jun 26, 2022)

There would need to be contact through dm or pm


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## Carmella.carey (Jun 30, 2022)

This all seems very complicated I have also had great luck with just rubbing off any mature female scale (manual removal) then spraying the plant with 1 part bleach 2 part water solution then thoroughly washing the entire plant with a garden hose. I repeat twice yearly and as far as I know scale & mealie bug don't build resistance to bleach.
This is on Cattleya Alliance plants with thick sturdy leafs and the "bleach treatment" has hurt other types of Orchids in my collection.
Patrick


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## Greenpaph (Jun 30, 2022)

Southernbelle,
Nice and clean! What size is the tray on the counter in the last photo? And where did you get it?


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## southernbelle (Jun 30, 2022)

Greenpaph said:


> Southernbelle,
> Nice and clean! What size is the tray on the counter in the last photo? And where did you get it?


All of the trays are plastic large boot trays from Gardener’s Supply. 46 ½ x 15 ½ “. They also come in smaller sizer and with rubber mat, that I don’t use. They fit the counter nicely, but also 2 fit perfectly on my 48” x 30” tables. Here they are on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/Gardeners-Su...ocphy=9008199&hvtargid=pla-627948003019&psc=1


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## FourEve (Aug 16, 2022)

southernbelle said:


> I water at the sink. The trays only catch a minor amount of run off when I put them back in their places in the trays.


I know this is an older thread…can I become your friend and get a gift plant?? 

This is a wonderful set up. I would love to graduate to this level!


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## southernbelle (Aug 16, 2022)

FourEve said:


> I know this is an older thread…can I become your friend and get a gift plant??
> 
> This is a wonderful set up. I would love to graduate to this level!


You are too kind!! Way cheaper than a greenhouse, but way smaller than most, too.


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