# Phrag andreettae advice



## xiphius (Sep 23, 2017)

Hello all!

Haven't posted here before, but have been a longtime lurker. 

I was at a show recently and picked up a Phrag. andreettae for a really good price. I don't know much about what it likes (except that it seems to like it somewhat warm, and I have heard it isn't the easiest to grow), but figured I would take a gamble on it. I wanted to pick your brains for advice about how to grow it successfully.

I am not completely new to phrags. I have:

Phrag. besseae, longifolium var roezlii, pearcei, and hirtzii

All of these seem to be pretty happy and growing well for me. I potted them in clay with a couple inch layer of lava rock on the bottom of the pot and then have them in a mix of either 50/50 fine bark and sphag moss or pure sphag moss (will probably move all to pure sphag moss at next repotting). They get watered at least every couple of days (using RO water). In addition to this, the pots sit in trays with about an inch or so of RO water, which I make sure to top off daily.

From what I have read/seen in pictures, it looks like andreettae is also a wet grower, but I have seen few detailed descriptions of how people grow it successfully. Would the above also work for this little guy? I am a little curious because I have seen a couple descriptions which seem to specify not to let this one stand in water, which a lot of other wet growing phrags don't seem to mind (and even seem to like!). Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

oke:


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## TrueNorth (Sep 24, 2017)

Mine likes it wet. It sits in water along with the rest of my Phrags.

I'd add some perlite and/or charcoal to the sphagnum to keep it open and aerated. I grow mine in 50/50 chopped sphagnum and perlite. I fill some of the space in the pot with styrofoam peanuts and add other ingredients as appropriate for the species i.e. gravel and dolomite chunks for kovachii and hybrids.


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## xiphius (Sep 25, 2017)

Thanks for the tips! I will mix some lava rock in with the moss to help keep it open in future. All of my phrag pots are also ~1/3 filled with lava rock on the bottom to help keep a good airspace below the roots.


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## eteson (Sep 25, 2017)

Avoid lava rock and use perlite if you can get it.
andreettae is quite sensitive to overfeeding and will grow fine with your besseae. avoid nights under 14C.


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## xiphius (Sep 25, 2017)

I assume you say to avoid lava rock as it may release salts into the mix? I do try to rinse/soak it well before using it. Also, I use RO water (my system comes out at <20 ppm most of the year) and I was planning on holding off on feeding it anything for a few months just to be safe and make sure everything is well flushed.

I have trouble finding large chunk perlite and it seems like when I do find it, I can't get it in reasonable quantities. The small or medium perlite I can find is usually impregnated with fertilizers. Hence the lava rock. I have my besseae in pure sphagnum moss on an underlayer of lava rock, and it seems to be doing well, so... fingers crossed!

Nights under 14C won't be a problem. I grow indoors and even in winter keep my grow room at least in the middish 60's.


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## eteson (Sep 26, 2017)

Yes, it releases Calcuim, Mg, K....when interacts with RO water.


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## xiphius (Sep 27, 2017)

eteson said:


> Yes, it releases Calcuim, Mg, K....when interacts with RO water.



Good to know. I will keep that in mind and monitor carefully to see if it develops any signs of salt stress. I'd rather not shock it by repotting again so soon unless I really have too. 

I would imagine that it is highly dependent on the batch and source of the lava rock, but the red lava rock I have been using shouldn't be too bad. In the past, I have grown Paph. bellatulum in a semi-hydroponic setup using nothing but the same brand of lava rock and it was absolutely thriving (and this one is supposed to be notorious for hating salts in the mix). Hard to see from the picture below, but you can see the lava rock in the container behind (housing a Paph. concolor), the bellatulum is being grown the exact same. The picture below is after being in this setup without repotting for about 2 years. The picture itself is from about 8 years ago. 







I don't grow much in semi-hydro anymore (worked really well in FL, but up in IN I was having issues keeping water in the reservoirs and watering frequently enough to make it work well). However, I used to grow almost exclusively that way using nothing but lava rock as the medium with great success (semi-hydro on the cheap!).

I rinse it really well beforehand. Also, just out of curiosity, I threw some in a bucket yesterday with RO water and measured the TDS after 24 hours. It had only gone up like 1-2 ppm. I am going to track it for a while and see how bad the leaching is over time, but if it stays that low and I flush regularly, then it hopefully shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Thanks!


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## pocomo2 (Apr 18, 2020)

I got this plant as a kovachii by sorcerer's apprentice hybrid. I couldn't believe when this paltry plant started pushing a spike, Yesterday morning it was beginning to open and this is from today. I am quite pleased. 
I grow it in a complex mix along with the rest of my phrags. Coconut, charcoal, bark, lava, clay and perlite in a clear plastic pot and roots are growing well. Not sitting in water but water almost daily with well or city water in Miami where we've had record high temps over the last couple of weeks in the low to mid 90's. Record high lows to flirting with 80 most mornings. I feel for my plants.
Chris


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## BrucherT (Apr 19, 2020)

xiphius said:


> Good to know. I will keep that in mind and monitor carefully to see if it develops any signs of salt stress. I'd rather not shock it by repotting again so soon unless I really have too.
> 
> I would imagine that it is highly dependent on the batch and source of the lava rock, but the red lava rock I have been using shouldn't be too bad. In the past, I have grown Paph. bellatulum in a semi-hydroponic setup using nothing but the same brand of lava rock and it was absolutely thriving (and this one is supposed to be notorious for hating salts in the mix). Hard to see from the picture below, but you can see the lava rock in the container behind (housing a Paph. concolor), the bellatulum is being grown the exact same. The picture below is after being in this setup without repotting for about 2 years. The picture itself is from about 8 years ago.
> 
> ...


I’d like to try lava rock as a medium. What brand do you recommend? Thanks.


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## xiphius (May 8, 2020)

BrucherT said:


> I’d like to try lava rock as a medium. What brand do you recommend? Thanks.



I've used "flower rock" branded rock before with good results. It is available in large bags at most of the big box stores (the red stuff) around me. That said, it probably varies a lot from bag-to-bag and from region-to-region. So be careful. I rinse off all of the dust and soak them in some epsom salt solution and leach with pure RO water for several days before I use it on my plants. No issues so far, and I have gone through quite a few bags of the stuff. I use it now as an additive in my potting mixes because I cannot find large chunk perlite, so it makes a good substitute.

If you are planning to use it for semi-hydroponic culture, you will want to make sure your humidity is high. It will wick, but probably not strongly enough to keep up with evaporation in drier climates. In Florida, it worked great as a base for semi-hydro since the humidity was almost always close to 100%. The lava rock easily wicked up moisture from the reservoir and stayed nice and moist all the time. When I moved to Indiana, it didn't work out so well since the evaporation rate was too fast for the lava rock to keep up. So I had to transition to a different setup.


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