# Paph. rothschildianum



## Paphman910 (Jun 8, 2006)

Do you have pictures of Paph rothschildianum flowers that you listed that you can post?

It would love to see pictures of them as I am totally jealous of you roths!

Paphman910


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## lienluu (Jun 8, 2006)

Paphman910 said:


> Do you have pictures of Paph rothschildianum flowers that you listed that you can post?
> 
> It would love to see pictures of them as I am totally jealous of you roths!
> 
> Paphman910



Unfortunately, most of the divisions I got within the last year or two so they haven't bloomed.

However, here is a photo of one of my best roths, 'Canadian Club'. I didn't bloom the plant, but it was it was in bloom when I got it. This was taken at the Japan Grand Prix.


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## Paphman910 (Jun 8, 2006)

Wow! I totally jumped out of my seat when I saw a picture of your 'Canadian Club'. Is it a sibling from 'Val' x 'Mont Millais' cross?

Paphman910


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## lienluu (Jun 8, 2006)

Paphman910 said:


> Wow! I totally jumped out of my seat when I saw a picture of your 'Canadian Club'. Is it a sibling from 'Val' x 'Mont Millais' cross?
> 
> Paphman910



Yup, it is from 'Val' x 'MM'. I also bought a division of 'Perfection' FCC/AOS which is also from 'Val' x 'MM' which is even better (just a tad better!). however, the division's not ready until next year, so i probably won't receive it until this time next year  They're both from the Tokyo Orchid Nursery.

Also, 'Sam's Choice' is also from 'Val' x 'MM'.


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## Paphman910 (Jun 8, 2006)

I believe Paph rothschildianum 'Sam's Choice' is actually 'Rex' x 'Mont Millais' and not 'Val' x 'Mont Millais'

Paphman910


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## lienluu (Jun 8, 2006)

Paphman910 said:


> I believe Paph rothschildianum 'Sam's Choice' is actually 'Rex' x 'Mont Millais' and not 'Val' x 'Mont Millais'
> 
> Paphman910




Nope.

This is from Sam:

"I do a small single growth division of ‘Sam’s Choice’ which is bred from MM x Val. This clone has exception dark color even the base color (background) is light brown instead of creamy white or creamy yellow of most of the roth. It is not a huge flower though. I believe it has 6cm x 6.5 dorsal and 29cm NS with 4 flowers"


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## Paphman910 (Jun 8, 2006)

Thanks for the information because I have bought a flask of Paph rothschildianum 'Sam's Choice' x 'Eureka' two years ago. He may have made a mistake on the parentage of Sam's Choice.

Paphman910


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## lienluu (Jun 8, 2006)

Paphman910 said:


> Thanks for the information because I have bought a flask of Paph rothschildianum 'Sam's Choice' x 'Eureka' two years ago. He may have made a mistake on the parentage of Sam's Choice.
> 
> Paphman910



That's why he called it "Sam's Choice". Despite the smaller size, he choose this one for breeding because it's a very dark clone, which is typical of Val x MM. 

Here is what he says about it:

"As you can tell, it is not a huge flower as compare to today standard. For a breeder, we only need one or two special characteristic and it is worth to use for breeding. There will be a % of the seedlings will carry the best from both parents. This time Sam’s Choice’s color is more important for me. This plant never be judged and personally it is a little too small based on today standard."

By the way, I gave him some pollen from Canadian Club and he's got it on 'Rex', 'Sam's Choice' and several others I can't remember now.


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## Paphman910 (Jun 8, 2006)

What about Paph rothschildianum 'Scorpio King'? 

Paphman910


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## Heather (Jun 8, 2006)

Those pictures are.....


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## Heather (Jun 8, 2006)

oh sorry - lost my mind for a minute.

May have fainted....

Why aren't my roths blooming? 
 

Cry....

I have 'Sam's Best' x 'Rex' also.... wee but doing well.


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## lienluu (Jun 8, 2006)

Paphman910 said:


> What about Paph rothschildianum 'Scorpio King'?
> 
> Paphman910



That's also from the Toyko Orchid Nursery, and is Val x MM. Very interesting story behind Scorpio King actually as no one knows what that clone is anymore. 

Sam got the pollen when TON brought it as a cut flower to WOC (forget which one). They brought 4 different clones and asked Sam which they should put in the display. Sam recommended SK but they decided not to put it in the display and gave him the spike with the flowers. He gave it the name Scorpio King, but that was not actually what TON had labelled it as. In fact, they just had a code on it. That code was lost so now, no one is sure which plant it actually came from. However, it's one of their darkest clone so it most probably came from 'Titanic' which was recently awarded by the AOS.

I have photos of the Scorpio King before Sam harvested the pollen, as well as 'Titanic'. 

I'll have to dig around for them.

I also have a photo of the 'Perfection' taken at the greenhouses of TON in March as well as several other clones. According to TON, 'Perfection' is their best roth.


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## Paphman910 (Jun 8, 2006)

I have asked Sam about 'Perfection' and he said 'Perfection' is not their best.

Paphman910


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## lienluu (Jun 8, 2006)

Paphman910 said:


> I have asked Sam about 'Perfection' and he said 'Perfection' is not their best.
> 
> Paphman910



That was probably before he saw it! He said the same thing to me in January when I showed him photos of it. When he saw it in person when he was out there for the Japan Grand Prix, he admitted, that it was!


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## Jmoney (Jun 8, 2006)

a couple pictures of roths 'Perfection' taken from a cut stem at the 2004 NY show. darkest roths I've ever seen thus far, and awarded an FCC. Tokyo Orchids' display knocked my socks off, with another very nice roths 'Moonlight' (the 3rd and 4th photos), an enormous white complex, and a huge vini, among others. suffice to say that the NY show has been all downhill since from a slipper standpoint (it sucked this year for paphs/phrags).

'Perfection'










'Moonlight'


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## lienluu (Jun 8, 2006)

Paphman910 said:


> I have asked Sam about 'Perfection' and he said 'Perfection' is not their best.
> 
> Paphman910



This was his response when I showed photos of it to him in January:

"This is from Tokyo Orchid Nursery. I I am sure the division is available for sale. I don’t think it is one of the best he has!"

Then after JPG:

"I have visited Tokyo Orchid Nursery today and saw about 100 roth of the selected Val x MM in bloom. I finally saw the “Perfection” GM, FCC in bloom in person. It has great form and color! It is no doubt the best I have seen."

And this is from Sam, relaying a message from TON about it:

"He sold the first division of the “Perfection” for 1,500.000 yen. He said he wants the same amount because there are two nurseries in Taiwan also want the division. He considers it is the best he has."


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## lienluu (Jun 8, 2006)

Here's a photo of Scorpio King. This was taken as a cut flower stem, a week after it was originally cut.

These photos are from Sam.


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## bench72 (Jun 9, 2006)

lienluu said:


> "He sold the first division of the “Perfection” for 1,500.000 yen..."



Holey Moley.... and this is why I just buy the baby Roth!

Wonderful collection and very Roth heavy... so, if you ever feel like offloading to even things out... oke:

The only thing I would quibble over is the lack of philippinense... what gives?


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## Gideon (Jun 9, 2006)

Man, that 'Perfection' is stunning


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## Paphman910 (Jun 9, 2006)

I have the same pictures of Paph rothschildianum 'Scorpio King' and they are very dark. I tried selling plants of Paph rothschildianum 'Powerhouse' x 'Scorpio King' at my society for a dirt cheap price of $20 for a six inch plant and not even a plant was sold....I guess I am very lucky none got sold as the parents are very beautiful.

Paphman910


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## kentuckiense (Jun 9, 2006)

Paphman910 said:


> I tried selling plants of Paph rothschildianum 'Powerhouse' x 'Scorpio King' at my society for a dirt cheap price of $20 for a six inch plant and not even a plant was sold.


*WHAT?!*


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## Marco (Jun 9, 2006)

Lien that's alot of Roth's and Basseae



Paphman910 said:


> I have the same pictures of Paph rothschildianum 'Scorpio King' and they are very dark. I tried selling plants of Paph rothschildianum 'Powerhouse' x 'Scorpio King' at my society for a dirt cheap price of $20 for a six inch plant and not even a plant was sold....I guess I am very lucky none got sold as the parents are very beautiful.
> 
> Paphman910



I'll buy it if you teach. But you'll have to teach me how to not kill it.


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## Paphman910 (Jun 9, 2006)

I live in Canada. I was trying to sell them to make room. I don't have a lot of space and didn't expect them to grow so fast! Totally caught me off guard.

Paphman910


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## Marco (Jun 9, 2006)

Oh well, If I ever more to canada I'll make sure to give you holler. oke:


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## kentuckiense (Jun 9, 2006)

Paphman910 said:


> I live in Canada.


Sigh. So close.


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## lienluu (Jun 11, 2006)

By the way, Sam's Choice was awarded an AM/AOS in 2004. Sam had forgotten about it and even forgot to post that on his latest listing. It was shown by someone in California.


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## paphioland (Aug 26, 2006)

here is my nicest paph and roth


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## paphioland (Aug 26, 2006)

carried 5 blooms. Was toward the end of bloom.


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## paphioland (Aug 26, 2006)

heres a close up


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## Marco (Aug 26, 2006)

:clap: :clap: that is a sweet roth!


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## paphioland (Aug 26, 2006)

my second roth probably as good


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## paphioland (Aug 26, 2006)

the spans are 33 and 34 cm


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## Heather (Aug 26, 2006)

Excellent. That dorsal...drool!


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## lienluu (Aug 26, 2006)

paphioland said:


> the spans are 33 and 34 cm



What are the parentage? Are they from Rex x Mont Milais?


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## paphioland (Aug 26, 2006)

my friends roth HUGE! Well they are all huge


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## paphioland (Aug 26, 2006)

one is mm x rex
the second is rex x mm
the third is I think nacho x mm


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## Gideon (Aug 26, 2006)

Fantastic :clap: :clap: :clap:


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## SlipperFan (Aug 26, 2006)

Truly gorgeous!


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## Heather (Aug 26, 2006)

May I just say...?

When a roth of mine blooms, I think I will just DIE! 
:sob:

It is fitting they are so slow to bloom. The anticipation has time to build, and build.

And build...



and build....

and build.......

and....


build....

&...


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## paphioland (Aug 28, 2006)

Paphman910

If you ever want to sell any of those seedlings let me know.


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## Paphman910 (Aug 28, 2006)

Hi paphioland:

Beautiful Paph rothschildianum flowers. I am delighted to see the 'Rex' x 'Mont Millais' cross from orchid zone. They are very big and dark. If you live in Canada, it is not a problem.

Paphman910


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## Jmoney (Aug 28, 2006)

Heather said:


> May I just say...?
> 
> When a roth of mine blooms, I think I will just DIE!
> :sob:
> ...



I take it you haven't bloomed that roth from Sherwood yet? (still waiting on mine as well, this @#^@ thing has been "blooming size" for at least 2 years)


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## Heather (Aug 28, 2006)

Jmoney said:


> I take it you haven't bloomed that roth from Sherwood yet? (still waiting on mine as well, this @#^@ thing has been "blooming size" for at least 2 years)



Ding! Ding! Ding! Nice guess, Jason! Does yours have a new growth yet? I've still just got that one stupid fan. Stupid plant.  

I have two other blooming size ones as well, one a 3+ growth division from Sherwood as well. Nothing happening there either. Sigh...


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## Paphman910 (Aug 28, 2006)

Heather and Jmoney:
How big leafspan are they and what cross are they from?

Paphman910


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## Heather (Aug 28, 2006)

'Rex' x 'Mont Millais' and mine is about 24" (and if Jason's is still on the same track, his is probably an inch or so larger).


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## Paphman910 (Aug 30, 2006)

Give it more light...Cattleya light level and you should be able to bloom it soon.

Paphman910


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## Jmoney (Aug 31, 2006)

yep, still one growth, no start. light isn't the trick, this one is light green already and seems ready to FRY if I move it any closer to the window during the summer. the winter, however, might be a good time to blast it with light and a cold draft...


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## Heather (Aug 31, 2006)

Jmoney said:


> yep, still one growth, no start. light isn't the trick, this one is light green already and seems ready to FRY if I move it any closer to the window during the summer. the winter, however, might be a good time to blast it with light and a cold draft...



Well, I guess I'm glad to hear that we are both in the same boat. If you had a multi-growth mature roth. by this point, I'd think I was doing something wrong.  

I treat mine the same, and it is also light green in color. 
I am planning on going the cold draft treatment myself this autumn.


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## Paphman910 (Aug 31, 2006)

If the rothschildianum 'Rex' x 'Mont Millais' is one growth and I think the cross was made in the late 90's (probably 1997) then you may have a very slow grower or a runt.

Paphman910


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## Shadow (Aug 31, 2006)

If the rothschildianum is about 3-4 inches how many years will it take it to bloom?


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## Paphman910 (Aug 31, 2006)

It will take you about 5-7 years to bloom a seedling that is 3-4 inch leafspan. My Paph rothschildianum that was 8" ls took me 4 years to bloom. It bloomed on 1.5 growths.

Paphman910


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## Paphman910 (Aug 31, 2006)

If the seedlings are about 3-4 inch leafspan keep the minimum temperature at least 70 F at night and give them constant light 12 hours a day year round. The light level should be bright enough to grow Phalenopsis.

Paphman910


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## Leo Schordje (Aug 31, 2006)

Paph rothschildianum are slow to mature and bloom. Anyone older than Jon-in-SW-Ohio is too old to start a line breeding program for rothschildianum. oke: Myself, being over 50 fully intend to live long enough to see my seedlings bloom, but realistically, it does take at least 5 years, usually more like 7 years to bring a seedling to bloom from flask. I know of a single seedling, from a flask that bloomed only 3 years from flask. The other seedlings from the same flask took the standard 5 to 9 years. Unfortunately that one seedling did not survive. Itss owner had a medical problem, and it perished. 
I intend to beat the odds, 
Leo


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## Shadow (Sep 1, 2006)

Breeding program... Sounds good. Sounds interesting. Today I've found all my flasks contaminated. It was my third attempt. I'm experimenting with phalaenopsis stalk, not the paph seeds. So I'm not too upset. At least I didn't waste the precious seeds.


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## Kyle (Sep 1, 2006)

hello Shadow,

If you want to start a new thread or PM me questions about flasking, I would be happy to answer, as would others on this board. 

I have experience flasking with a pretty primative set up, including paphs from seed. Your problem sounds like its with your disinfection, however phal stems are typically more difficult to disinfect becasue they spend months exposed to pathogens in the environment.

Kyle


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## paphioland (Sep 1, 2006)

If you can find a used hood from a lab with ultraviolet light helps ALOT!


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## paphioland (Sep 20, 2006)

Heather said:


> Ding! Ding! Ding! Nice guess, Jason! Does yours have a new growth yet? I've still just got that one stupid fan. Stupid plant.
> 
> I have two other blooming size ones as well, one a 3+ growth division from Sherwood as well. Nothing happening there either. Sigh...




My roths bloom with one large growth and a medium size growth. I don't give my roths that much light and they do well. Have to be pt. There is a huge variation between each individual plant.I think humidity is really important with blooming roths. If you can get the humidity to 80% with good air movement will speed up the process.

Ken


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## NYEric (Sep 21, 2006)

I think I read something from Antec about growing Paphs in diatomite alone!? I have about 30 Paphs and if this works for them I will repot them all. Anyone know about it? E.


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## PHRAG (Sep 21, 2006)

How much light do you grow yours under? I have mine at about 1500 to 2000 footcandles. Is that too much?


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## Paphman910 (Sep 21, 2006)

It should be fine for roths that are 12+ inch leafspan in the light level that you mentioned. The brighter light seems make the roths flower on a single mature growth and a new growth that is half mature. Not only that you get more flowers and darker colors.

Paphman910


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## paphioland (Sep 21, 2006)

Mine are probably growing at around 1000-1500 foot candles. Have gotten most roths to bloom with 4-5 flowers. I may move one into higher light to see if it is darker on the next blooming. I was not aware of this.


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## paphioland (Sep 21, 2006)

I have heard of roths with 7 flowers. Has anyone actually seen one or have a pic? Anyone have a pic with 6??? Terry said he has bloomed thousands and none have had more than 6.


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## Paphman910 (Sep 21, 2006)

I have never seen one with 7 flowers. I heard of 7 flowers but this could just be an exaggeration by the exporter. I have heard from a well known Paph rothschildianum grower in the US emailed me that the exporter said the plant can have 6-7 flowers with a natural span on the flowers to be 40+ cm. He has yet to flower the plant with 40+ cm. The other two roth he got from the same exporter did not flower to that size so it is very doubtful the exporter is telling the truth.

Personally I have asked an AOS judge about this information and he has not seen that many flowers on a rothschildianum let alone the 40+ cm flower size.

Paphman910


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## Jmoney (Sep 21, 2006)

I wonder what size flowers you would get from some of the newer crosses if one allows them to grow to specimen size. I remember reading about an ad a loooong time ago, for a specimen clump of roths, with natural spread in the 15-16" range. I don't think that is out of the realm of possibility if some of these finer clones were allowed to grow to CCM size (a difficult proposition given how much a growth would fetch).


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## Heather (Sep 22, 2006)

I have a tiny new start on that roth., Jason.
My rothschildianum and philippinense are always the plants in my house that are in the highest lit areas.


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## Rick (Sep 22, 2006)

My roth is in the brightest part of the GH that can run in the 2000 to 3000fc range. 

This is the first time it flowered with 1 adult growth (maybe as old as 10 years) and a couple of very young second growths.

I got it about 2 years ago as an abused, almost rootless plant.


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## Jmoney (Sep 24, 2006)

Heather said:


> I have a tiny new start on that roth., Jason.
> My rothschildianum and philippinense are always the plants in my house that are in the highest lit areas.



on track for a spike next summer maybe?


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## Heather (Sep 24, 2006)

Jmoney said:


> on track for a spike next summer maybe?



Good god we can only hope!


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