# Any other cities feel this way?



## ehanes7612 (Aug 23, 2018)

https://crosscut.com/2018/08/lost-s...tm_source=crosscut-facebook&utm_medium=social


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## Linus_Cello (Aug 23, 2018)

My city is trying to recruit Amazon2 with 3 nearby locations. Some folks have warned of insufficient affordable housing and infrastructure if Amazon2 locates here.


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## ehanes7612 (Aug 23, 2018)

Linus_Cello said:


> My city is trying to recruit Amazon2 with 3 nearby locations. Some folks have warned of insufficient affordable housing and infrastructure if Amazon2 locates here.



pray they don't move there...amazon is a curse in so many ways...especially with the demand put on housing....aggravating an already bad homeless situation and destroying the diverse character of our city


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## Hien (Aug 25, 2018)

ehanes7612 said:


> pray they don't move there...amazon is a curse in so many ways...especially with the demand put on housing....aggravating an already bad homeless situation and destroying the diverse character of our city


 Yes I understand what you are saying and I partly agree with you too, demand for housing can make it really miserable for peoples who can not find a roof to shelter their families .
However , I would think that the problem of sky rocket price for housing every where along the West coast of the US and Canada has more to do with the money ( a lot of it stem from the peoples who derive the power to get rich by association with the communist party, now want to hide the money in the West) from China . In fact not just the US, this happens in England, Australia and Europe as well , my friends and relatives who live in the West coast said that these Chinese buyers did not even care or need to look at the properties , they just throw money at them . And they out bid you every times , there is no negotiate down anything, the final prices are always a lot bigger than the 1st quote number.
So let's say American "A" has more money, but not enough to compete with zillionaire from China will have to spend his top dollar to just a so so house, that drive the American "B" who has medium income to compete for the even less desirable than the "so so house" , thus the chain reaction goes on until the bottom ones are forced out of any houses "of any shape, even ready to collapse".
There are stories of chinese buyers who know fully well the listed houses have abestos problem and still throw money at those houses .
Also if you look at the coin from both sides, a big company move in will create a lot of available jobs , peoples can find jobs again, and who knows, some of the peoples who were forced to be in the homeless situation because of all the jobs were shipped to other countries can make money and get out of their homeless situation .
You know, many cities in New Jersey so salivate for Amazon that we offer a 7 billion dollar in tax breaks, you throw them out , we will take them , that for sure.


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## troy (Aug 26, 2018)

I build houses and I am booked out 2 years lol... who can't get a job???? Only people who don't want to work


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## ehanes7612 (Aug 26, 2018)

Hien, the Chinese account for a very tiny percentage of ownership and don’t actually live in the houses..they invest as any would be real estate investor and rent out the properties , this having little to no affect on availability ( although , I think this plays out differently in Vancouver BC because of different laws with regards to vacancy rules). I actually have friends who rent from one such person. Big companies do provide jobs but do so with huge tax incentives ( that compromise budgets and items such as teachers pay) and in Seattle’s case .. do so without proper planning for infrastructure upgrades.


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## ehanes7612 (Aug 26, 2018)

Troy ,having a job doesn’t necessarily translate into being able to afford housing .. especially in areas where the wages are stagnant and or you are in a job that doesn’t pay well , such as being a teacher .. who , coincidentally , in seattle are being priced out of th districts they teach in ..: which , BTW, is happening everywhere .. unless you haven’t been paying attenton


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## ehanes7612 (Aug 26, 2018)

Anyway, in the end, tax incentives are not going to be the major factor in winning over Amazon 2... the number one reason will be where young talented people will want to live ( even if the incentives were taken away in seattle , they would not leave).. there is a reason why seattle is a major hub for the tech industry as well as SF and LA ( has nothing to do with tax relief) and whatever place is chosen , expect a huge gentrification process to procede after that decision ... having the effect of displacing thousands of people and creating many more problems and headaches


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## Hien (Aug 26, 2018)

troy said:


> I build houses and I am booked out 2 years lol... who can't get a job???? Only people who don't want to work


 Where were you in 2008 , when the economy tanked?
I remember, everyone in New Jersey losing jobs, in fact, other states as well.
the government had to extend the unemployment benefit to 99 weeks in 2009,2010,2011.. which normally ends at 26 weeks. 
And the indication of the economy is not in good shape , is construction and its related fields are in trouble. Also they always going down first and recover last in the economy.
I firmly believe that the government duty should always have to do their best to keep the jobs in the country. There is nothing worst than not having a mean to support your family, I always looking to buy American products as first choice because any tiny effort by any American counts in provide jobs for other Americans .


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## Hien (Aug 26, 2018)

ehanes7612 said:


> Troy ,having a job doesn’t necessarily translate into being able to afford housing .. especially in areas where the wages are stagnant and or you are in a job that doesn’t pay well , such as being a teacher .. who , coincidentally , in seattle are being priced out of th districts they teach in ..: which , BTW, is happening everywhere .. unless you haven’t been paying attenton


 You always hear about the teachers' low salary , but no one actually knows the lowest one is architect's salary . A lot lower than Teachers' .
At graduation, architects salaries usually about half of an engineers' , despite the fact that they have to spent 5 years for a bachelor in architecture comparing to a 4 years for an engineering degree , and small architecture firms do not have health insurance for employees, no pension program either . 
The hours are unbelievable , I remember there are time the interns put in 80 hrs a week , plus weekends as well . yes you hear it right , before you are allowed to take the license exam, you have to have internship proof , and years ago the license exam last for 3 days


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## ehanes7612 (Aug 26, 2018)

well, teachers are people who at the frontlines of teaching children.... this is a huge distinction from architects. Also, architects pay is decided by market forces ..whereas public teachers pay is decided by the state


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## Hien (Aug 26, 2018)

ehanes7612 said:


> well, teachers are people who at the frontlines of teaching children.... this is a huge distinction from architects .. weird comparisOn


 It is not a weird comparison, we should not get into the trap of thinking this profession or that profession is more important than another one .
No profession is more precious than others, we are all parts of a machine called society , missing one part and it will not work.
Just imagine , try to live a month in the summer in the city when the sanitary peoples deciding to have a strike , and we probably will not thinking too much about children or old peoples , or anything else .
Here is a vietnamese joke for thought (although it may not originally came from Vietnamese):
There is a big meeting among all the organs of the body , everyone boast,
The brain said:
I am more important than any of you , because I think , I am intellectual , I decide for this guy .
The ears said:
really , I am shutting down and see if you can decide something when you don't hear other peoples talk , so we should be the leader.
The eyes said:
nope , we are not going to open and let see if you guys can manage , then the hands said nope , not true we are more important , because even you think, your hear, you see, but if we don't reach for something all of you will be useless , then the legs said , try to reach from here to the fridge if we decide not to walk over there .
So they say ok legs you get the votes .
at that point the mouth said I refuse to eat , after a week , everyone is hungry , the legs can not even move, so they decided that the mouth will be dear leader now .
At that point , they all hear a tiny little voice which said:
brothers, may I say something
at first, they couldn't locate where that voice is coming from .
They said who are you ? where are you?
oh, brothers I am down here, I am this guy's little ass hole .
They all say , you are full of craps, shut up, this is an important meeting among the prestigious & precious parts of the body , it does not involve the kind like you . 
So the little guy shuts up.
A week passed , suddenly the brain could not think straight, the eyes got blurry and crossed, the ears couldn't make sense of any sound , arms and legs have no strength to move , in fact the mouth could not imagine swallowing even a tiny modicum of food , the stomach now is bloated and looks as if it belongs to a 9 month pregnant woman .
They suddenly realize their mistake in thinking they are the most important , and that if this situation last for another minute they will all perish .
They all begging the little ass hole to open .


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## ehanes7612 (Aug 26, 2018)

I did not say one job was more important than the other or even imply it...now, you will have to change your parable to one that is more relevant


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## ehanes7612 (Aug 26, 2018)

Hien said:


> Where were you in 2008 , when the economy tanked?
> I remember, everyone in New Jersey losing jobs, in fact, other states as well.
> the government had to extend the unemployment benefit to 99 weeks in 2009,2010,2011.. which normally ends at 26 weeks.
> And the indication of the economy is not in good shape , is construction and its related fields are in trouble. Also they always going down first and recover last in the economy.
> I firmly believe that the government duty should always have to do their best to keep the jobs in the country. There is nothing worst than not having a mean to support your family, I always looking to buy American products as first choice because any tiny effort by any American counts in provide jobs for other Americans .



Okay, we need to purse this out more....the impetus behind this thread has to do with a type of employment that attracts highly skilled and highly paid talent. Talent that can afford to pay higher rents with their much higher wages....but also , and this is very important...dont give much back to the community of seattle...monoculture if you will. When you have an influx of these people come in the city over a short period, it creates some crazy effects in housing and development ...most notably , sticker shock on older houses ...sudden and large increases in rents. This attracts real estate investment..but not the kind that cares about diversity or quality..they want the biggest bang for their buck and a quick return...the new housing that is built (especially apt buildings ) skirt costs on materials and even proper installation..and borrows from one type of style that has plagued new architecture. We get issues like a 20 plus story building being condemned just nine years after it was built (during the dotcom surge) because of rebar that wasn't coated properly and mold issues from newly developed complexes that used schoddy piping. Cities start looking the other way because to do otherwise means scaring away potential investors. More people come in....Then the effect of rapidly increasing property taxes comes into play (because the city is attracting too much) and people who have owned their homes for decades start feeling the pressure and they give it back...then politicians start looking to cutback taxes by looking for scapegoats to target as not worthy of their pay that comes from the taxpayers...I can think of one such person who is the usual scapegoat (rhymes with preacher)

This is happening in Seattle...we have too much of a good thing ..and it's causing major problems in the livability of this city...yes, there are other places that can use just a slice of this economy as they have nothing...but I can tell you this..Jeff Bezos does not give one iota about the welfare of a city ..he sees a few winners and lots of losers...this is why he is the stingiest billionaire in the world...he also doesn't reside in Seattle (go figure). 

I used to love this place..it had a diverse music culture and people loved to make art here, the city seemed to have a sense of purpose that was beyond the need to make money..now, all it seems to be about is making a quick buck, no matter the consequences..and Amazon has had an integral part in that change....this article exemplifies the thoughts of many here...and it's mainstream..not just in the fringes. So all I can say is beware, if you are chosen as the site for Amazon 2, tread with caution and consider leaving, especially if your city council are just a bunch of carpet baggers


"If I get too fat from eating only healthy food, I am still too fat"


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## ehanes7612 (Nov 10, 2018)

looks like Amazon HQ2 will be split between two cities ..Crystal City , VA and Long Island , NY...huh


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## ehanes7612 (Feb 14, 2019)

And now Amazon pulls out of Long Island..leaving all those poor real estate speculators who bought up property out to waste....maybe Newark is next.


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## Ray (Feb 15, 2019)

So a bunch of state and local politicians griped about the financial concessions offered to Amazon, considering it's already a multi-billion dollar company.

Amazon, sensing a lack of overall cooperation, says "screw it, we're done here" and backs out, having made no commitment.

Now, there will not be the projected 25,000 "high-paying jobs" nor all of the associated economic boon to the area.

Who's to blame? Probably both sides, but I think one needs to start by considering whether the concessions were a "waste" or an "investment". Granted, $3-billion is a LARGE concession, but what was the projected return? Let's also not forget that such incentives are NOT giving money away, but consist of a temporary moratorium collecting fees and taxes. Well, they're certainly not going to collect them now, are they?


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## Hien (Feb 15, 2019)

ehanes7612 said:


> And now Amazon pulls out of Long Island..leaving all those poor real estate speculators who bought up property out to waste....maybe Newark is next.


 yes i just heard about it too, and I hope we get it, I know you don't think it is good, and fully understand your reasons for being cautious about it, but it will really help Newark to recover economically.
i don't want to see it go to , is it Virginia?


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## ehanes7612 (Feb 16, 2019)

hmm, you are aware that Amazon split up the HQ's into two spots with a minor third one in Nashville. The second large one is already slated for Northern VA/Maryland. Being near DC was an astute political move by Bezos...he wants a presence near the capitol to influence, especially in light of Trumps comments about Amazon. Long Island was supposed to be the other large HQ. I was being facetious about Newark. My guess is that Amazon will just not entertain any bids/incentives for a few more years when they decide to expand again and get cities all hyped again. I dont know..if Newark was smart they would incentivize for startups through various means rather than looking for one huge bank roller.


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## Hien (Feb 16, 2019)

ehanes7612 said:


> hmm, you are aware that Amazon split up the HQ's into two spots with a minor third one in Nashville. The second large one is already slated for Northern VA/Maryland. Being near DC was an astute political move by Bezos...he wants a presence near the capitol to influence, especially in light of Trumps comments about Amazon. Long Island was supposed to be the other large HQ. I was being facetious about Newark. My guess is that Amazon will just not entertain any bids/incentives for a few more years when they decide to expand again and get cities all hyped again. I dont know..if Newark was smart they would incentivize for startups through various means rather than looking for one huge bank roller.


 My coworker shows me a bunch of sites which Newark offered to Amazon, the whole office discuss about it . we feel that it is quite a loss for New York , after edged out 238 others' bids , so close for them. Perhaps still some hope for us


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## NYEric (Feb 18, 2019)

Amazon's plans were not for Long Island, but for Long Island City. That's a part of NYC, in Queens near the 59th Street Bridge, that is heavily industrial. The area is already crowded, If Amazon moved there it would be like the boom in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. That has so much new construction that I literally can't recognize the streets from week to week!!!


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## ehanes7612 (Feb 18, 2019)

So , then it mostly came down to incentives that NYC was offering?


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## Hien (Feb 19, 2019)

ehanes7612 said:


> So , then it mostly came down to incentives that NYC was offering?


you are right that they are more keen on New York and it is just the money, because after the disdain dismissive crap talk from Cortez, Amazon still saying they want to show her their facility and how well they treat their employees from day 1.
Consider New York only offer them 3 billions tax incentive while Newark offer them 7 billions package deal.


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## NYEric (Feb 19, 2019)

NYC location would be much more lucrative because there is a 4 million resident market they could access with less transportation issues, such as tolls, etc..


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## ehanes7612 (Feb 19, 2019)

What Eric said.........I really think it came down to where the talent would want to live and commute. I don't think Newark really ever had a chance...just like 95 % of the other contestants. Knowing Amazon (because I interact with these dipshits on a daily basis, they are the laziest most entitled assholes)...I am pretty sure they had sights on NYC and DC area from the get go. I was hoping to be proved wrong though. Amazon wants to be in the center of it all and they dont want to go to a community where the uncertainty of success is very high. They like the dramatic and they prefer places where there is already a substantial infrastructure for their needs as well as what employees want, but not so far along that they cant make a huge impression on the community. Their previous seattle HQ was in Beacon Hill overlooking downtown, a building you could see from miles away..at what time was the hip place for people to move to. The long island city move sounded exactly like what they would love to exploit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Amazon_locations#/media/File:Seattle-PacMed-2571.JPG


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