# Paphiopedilum Sanderianum



## alaindelonhj (Jun 18, 2020)

This is my first post. As a orchid collector owning more than 60 orchids, I have never been so cheerful with an orchid plant like this. The flower it gave is purely a surprise. I bought this plant from Taiwan (republic of China) when the Taiwanese company attended an orchid show in Germany. They posted this to me (who lives in the Netherlands) along other orchids I ordered through DHL this February. The package was somehow lost because they used DHL domestic instead of international post. After 2 weeks efforts, I finally got my package, but the sanderianum was not in good conditions. There were some frozen damage on the leaves. It was a disappointment aesthetically by that time, as I paid 130 euro for it. Then I put it in a corner at the edge of a growing light for my papi and phrag. I potted it in normal soil and perlite mix (2:1) with some limestone at the bottom, and watered it weekly. Honestly, I never paid special attention to it. Two weeks ago when I watered it, I found a flower spike. The flowers just fully opened today. I measured the pedal length yesterday (30 cm), and now it’s 40 cm. How fast it ia growing! I was a bit doubtful whether it’s a true sanderianum or hybrids like Chiu Hua dancer or Michael Koopowitz a few days ago, but the length of the pedal and a white break in the stripes of the upper pedal kinda remove my concerns. Statistically speaking, I think it’s more likely to be a sanderianum.


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## alaindelonhj (Jun 18, 2020)

alaindelonhj said:


> This is my first post. As a orchid collector owning more than 60 orchids, I have never been so cheerful with an orchid plant like this. The flower it gave is purely a surprise. I bought this plant from Taiwan (republic of China) when the Taiwanese company attended an orchid show in Germany. They posted this to me (who lives in the Netherlands) along other orchids I ordered through DHL this February. The package was somehow lost because they used DHL domestic instead of international post. After 2 weeks efforts, I finally got my package, but the sanderianum was not in good conditions. There were some frozen damage on the leaves. It was a disappointment aesthetically by that time, as I paid 130 euro for it. Then I put it in a corner at the edge of a growing light for my papi and phrag. I potted it in normal soil and perlite mix (2:1) with some limestone at the bottom, and watered it weekly. Honestly, I never paid special attention to it. Two weeks ago when I watered it, I found a flower spike. The flowers just fully opened today. I measured the pedal length yesterday (30 cm), and now it’s 40 cm. How fast it ia growing! I was a bit doubtful whether it’s a true sanderianum or hybrids like Chiu Hua dancer or Michael Koopowitz a few days ago, but the length of the pedal and a white break in the stripes of the upper pedal kinda remove my concerns. Statistically speaking, I think it’s more likely to be a sanderianum.


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## DrLeslieEe (Jun 19, 2020)

Welcome Alain to ST. You will find a lot of knowledgeable and experienced people here to share your flowers/plants with. As well with those who appreciate them. 

Glad you posted your flowers pics. Well done in saving the plant and coaxing it to flower despite it's perilous journey. You can see the evidence of that rough journey on the leaves.

After looking closely at the flower color (and markings), staminode, ovary, column, pouch shape, petal curls (and stance), dorsal curvature and markings as well as the leaves, I can safely say that it is indeed a sanderianum. I have grown many of these and flowered them, and it has all the properties of one.


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## alaindelonhj (Jun 21, 2020)

DrLeslieEe said:


> Welcome Alain to ST. You will find a lot of knowledgeable and experienced people here to share your flowers/plants with. As well with those who appreciate them.
> 
> Glad you posted your flowers pics. Well done in saving the plant and coaxing it to flower despite it's perilous journey. You can see the evidence of that rough journey on the leaves.
> 
> After looking closely at the flower color (and markings), staminode, ovary, column, pouch shape, petal curls (and stance), dorsal curvature and markings as well as the leaves, I can safely say that it is indeed a sanderianum. I have grown many of these and flowered them, and it has all the properties of one.


Thanks a lot Leslie for the very kind professional verificaiton. I still have another flowered sanderianum 101 (much larger with more fans) which has not given me flower yet, and i got it from Popow in Germany. A big investment (350 Euro) I got it 2 months ago, because I thought the one which suffered from the rough journey is less like to give me bloom in the coming years. However, it seems that I was totally wrong. 

I put the fancier one in front of my huge north window along with my papi rothchildnum and other (novelty phalaenopsis). It can get some direct morning sunshine, I will pull the curtain down once I find the temperature exceeds 27 degree celcium. I find Papi is very easy to grow using the potting media of normal soil and perlite mix (2:1), since its terrestrial. This potting mix also makes watering schedule much easier as it can retain a lot of moisture. Through a transparent plastic pot, I can see that the roots for my rothchildnum grows really fast (if not exponentially . I also use the same potting mix for my phrags.


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## GuRu (Jun 21, 2020)

To see a Paph. sanderianum in flower is always a feast for the eyes. Well done to pamper and recover this one after its odd journey.
Last but not least a warm welcome from Germany too.


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## alaindelonhj (Jun 21, 2020)

GuRu said:


> To see a Paph. sanderianum in flower is always a feast for the eyes. Well done to pamper and recover this one after its odd journey.
> Last but not least a warm welcome from Germany too.


Thanks GuRu. Haha actually I live in the Netherlands, but honestly most of orchids were purchased from Germany. I think its pretty lucky to have Germany as a neighboring country as a plant hobbist：）


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## dodidoki (Jun 21, 2020)

A real sanderianum, and so beautiful!I love it!Welcome!


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## alaindelonhj (Jun 21, 2020)

dodidoki said:


> A real sanderianum, and so beautiful!I love it!Welcome!


Thank you!


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## Ozpaph (Jun 22, 2020)

well done!


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## Justin (Jun 22, 2020)

Gorgeous. Using a humidifier and watering daily can help push the petals extend further.

But even if the petals stay where they are it is already beautiful!


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## Marco (Jun 22, 2020)

Perfect first post of a wonderful multi.


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## Sanderianum cultivator (Jun 4, 2021)

alaindelonhj said:


> View attachment 20764


As a self-professed Sanderianum expert and lifetime admirer I am sorry to inform you that this is indeed a very common novelty phalaenopsis. It is clear that you have taken good care of it and I commend you for that! 
But.. I am afraid your species identification skills are way off (maybe you have some eyesight issues, so I will refrain from being too harsh on your obvious lack of knowledge just in case that is the case).

The orchid in the picture is 100% a low-grade hybrid Michael Koopowitz mass-produced I'm afraid in the greenhouses of south Germany. The good news for you is that you could probably sell it for a small loss given today's insane market. However, the leaves are severly damaged so this is doubtful.
Mr Delon, please heed this advice... a soil and perlite mix (2:1) is a sufficient growth media if you want to nuture an orchid to bloom. However, the fixation, air circulation and subsequent water retention WILL eventually rot the roots from inside out. I take from your self-declared potting mixture you have been an orchid hobbyist for <5yrs I would wager you have already experienced what you believed to be over-watering casualties that are down to this potting mistake. I would employ you to not re-invent the wheel here and stick to a common bark composition. 

P.S. this is just advice.. enjoy your hobby friend.


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## alaindelonhj (Jun 4, 2021)

Sanderianum cultivator said:


> As a self-professed Sanderianum expert and lifetime admirer I am sorry to inform you that this is indeed a very common novelty phalaenopsis. It is clear that you have taken good care of it and I commend you for that!
> But.. I am afraid your species identification skills are way off (maybe you have some eyesight issues, so I will refrain from being too harsh on your obvious lack of knowledge just in case that is the case).
> 
> The orchid in the picture is 100% a low-grade hybrid Michael Koopowitz mass-produced I'm afraid in the greenhouses of south Germany. The good news for you is that you could probably sell it for a small loss given today's insane market. However, the leaves are severly damaged so this is doubtful.
> ...


Thanks for your comment, but since many people here have also grown sanderianum and confirmed it’s indeed one, my confidence level is not too low it’s a sanderianum. From a Bayesian perspective I’m not worried so much given the information that the final pedal is 50cm. I’m 100% sure the orchid is imported from Taiwan rather than being produced in Germany Since there’s a import certificate for that. Indeed the leave is damaged, but a new fan is produced and the old fan will be blinded to die anyway so it does not matter that much for me. Even if it’s not a sanderianum I don’t feel so bad. I never intended to sell it. I don’t think I have a eyesight issue since you can never tell what the plant is without seeing the flower. As a person who had a formal education in probability theory, I think one can never 100% sure about things in absence of complete information. You are right, I have <5 years in growing orchids. However, my paphiopedilum and phrags all thrived (with loads of roots growing) in the perlite-soil mix. In Canada, this mix is also used in some professional nursery, just FYI.


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## Sanderianum cultivator (Jun 4, 2021)

Delon, I'm sorry to hear that you have declined a well-intentioned piece of advice on the potting media. Of course as a professional cultivator for >30 years who am I to say what is right or wrong .

Yes, I have to seen many articles sold on the market (internet sales) which have been provided with so called certificates . However, if you would rather believe a piece of paper from a seller with a vested interest in lying to you over the well-intentioned comment of an uninvested expert then that is your choice. But I would advise you to revisit your "formal education in probability theory' and factor in those variables . A bayesian perspective would imply that the hypothesis is that this photographed plant is indeed a Sanderianum. This hypothesis would be incorrect therefore your point is mute.


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## NYEric (Jun 4, 2021)

This is by far the funniest thread in this forum.


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## alaindelonhj (Jun 4, 2021)

Sanderianum cultivator said:


> Delon, I'm sorry to hear that you have declined a well-intentioned piece of advice on the potting media. Of course as a professional cultivator for >30 years who am I to say what is right or wrong .
> 
> Yes, I have to seen many articles sold on the market (internet sales) which have been provided with so called certificates . However, if you would rather believe a piece of paper from a seller with a vested interest in lying to you over the well-intentioned comment of an uninvested expert then that is your choice. But I would advise you to revisit your "formal education in probability theory' and factor in those variables . A bayesian perspective would imply that the hypothesis is that this photographed plant is indeed a Sanderianum. This hypothesis would be incorrect therefore your point is mute.



A good intention could also sound a bit arrogant Bayesian inference means that how to assess the accuracy of informanten when uncertainties is present through subjective probabilities and conditional probabilities. I never said that the certificate proves is a sanderinum, the certificate only suggests it comes from Taiwan. It’s a plant I ordered from Taiwanese nursery’s show in Germany, so it only means that it comes from Taiwan. I have no doubt that you have experience of 30 years in growing orchids and you have huge success in growing your orchids. But the mix works for me well at least for 2,5 years and it’s also used by professional nurseries. A cognitive fallacy often cited in psychology literate is called “credentials fallacy”. I hope I didn’t make it. In statistics if one wants to prove something is valid it’s important to control the variables designed for the experiments. You have your success in your conditions. My pot mixture works for me also well, and theoretically they are terrestrial. I don’t see the problem to change it since it works for 2,5 years.


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## alaindelonhj (Jun 4, 2021)

NYEric said:


> This is by far the funniest thread in this forum.


I have no problem if someone told me it’s not a sanderianum, and even if it’s not it does not matter much for me. It’s still a nice plant that gives me flowers. I just think it’s a weird that people claim I have bad eyesight on a online forum as I never pretended that I know what it is exactly.


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## Duck Slipper (Jun 4, 2021)

I like all Sandies.
Sorry it got beat up, but I still like it.


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## Sanderianum cultivator (Jun 4, 2021)

Well it seems ive tried to help a Nassim Nicholas Taleb fan boy who jumped on the bandwagon, read black swan and mistakenly believed they understood it . 

Anybody else thinks this gentleman is a bit weird and overly defensive?


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## Paphman910 (Jun 4, 2021)

That is definitely a real Paph sanderianum. Very beautiful! 

Should be grown in a bark, perlite, charcoal mix with a bit of sphagnum moss. I have a coworker who grows a Cattleya intermedia orlata in an 12 inch clay pot with potting soil but the plant is growing outside the pot and the roots are stuck on the outside of the pot and the bulbs are 12 inches in height and flowered this year with 5 flowers on a spike.


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## alaindelonhj (Jun 4, 2021)

Sanderianum cultivator said:


> Well it seems ive tried to help a Nassim Nicholas Taleb fan boy who jumped on the bandwagon, read black swan and mistakenly believed they understood it .
> 
> Anybody else thinks this gentleman is a bit weird and overly defensive?


I know who the person is now. Its an English colleague who tried to troll me all the time. I should have realized it’s him when he mentioned it’s a novelty Phalaenopsis since it’s his only knowledge about orchid from me. No one here could confuse a paphi as a novelty phal. My fault to be so gullible. He got me this time though, and he made this post become an entertaining post...my apology


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## tnyr5 (Jun 4, 2021)

Oh it's a friend pulling a prank on you, hah! I was getting ready to report him as a troll!


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## Sanderianum cultivator (Jun 4, 2021)

I was wrong it's amazing3


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## musa (Jun 5, 2021)

Alain, wellcome to Slipper Talk! Glad to have you here.

That is a great success you show us. That's a really beautiful sanderianum!

BTW: the potting medium depends on lots of environmental conditions, which are different for each grower, so there is no wrong or right media, only one that works for you. Why change a running system...?


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## Michael Bonda (Jun 5, 2021)

Wow. Welcome. Congrats. Amazing. A little envy but more happiness for you to have such a wonderful plant.


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## alaindelonhj (Jun 5, 2021)

thanks everyone for very kind welcoming messages, even if I posted 1 year again


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## NYEric (Jun 7, 2021)

alaindelonhj said:


> I have no problem if someone told me it’s not a sanderianum, and even if it’s not it does not matter much for me. It’s still a nice plant that gives me flowers. I just think it’s a weird that people claim I have bad eyesight on a online forum as I never pretended that I know what it is exactly.


Good attitude.


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## Michael Bonda (Jun 7, 2021)

Sanderianum cultivator said:


> As a self-professed Sanderianum expert and lifetime admirer I am sorry to inform you that this is indeed a very common novelty phalaenopsis. It is clear that you have taken good care of it and I commend you for that!
> But.. I am afraid your species identification skills are way off (maybe you have some eyesight issues, so I will refrain from being too harsh on your obvious lack of knowledge just in case that is the case).
> 
> The orchid in the picture is 100% a low-grade hybrid Michael Koopowitz mass-produced I'm afraid in the greenhouses of south Germany. The good news for you is that you could probably sell it for a small loss given today's insane market. However, the leaves are severly damaged so this is doubtful.
> ...


Why did you state this is a very common novelty Phalaenopsis .………..when it is indeed a Paphliopedium……

and I agree that


Sanderianum cultivator said:


> As a self-professed Sanderianum expert and lifetime admirer I am sorry to inform you that this is indeed a very common novelty phalaenopsis. It is clear that you have taken good care of it and I commend you for that!
> But.. I am afraid your species identification skills are way off (maybe you have some eyesight issues, so I will refrain from being too harsh on your obvious lack of knowledge just in case that is the case).
> 
> The orchid in the picture is 100% a low-grade hybrid Michael Koopowitz mass-produced I'm afraid in the greenhouses of south Germany. The good news for you is that you could probably sell it for a small loss given today's insane market. However, the leaves are severly damaged so this is doubtful.
> ...


I am a little concerned over the statement that:
“ this is a very common novelty Phalaenopsis”……when it is clearly a Paphliopedium. Typo? Auto correct typo? 

It is a lovely grown and bloomed Paph and I will enjoy it in the photos as a sanderanium as Dr. Leslie states (who I bow to in every post).


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