# Help me convince someone...



## The Orchid Boy (Jan 25, 2013)

I'm trying to convince a fellow orchid grower of a few things and break a few myths. *The myths she has are:*

-Cattleyas and most orchids need a low or no nitrogen fertlizer that has higher P and K levels to bloom and grow well or they might blast their buds. (Awhile ago (about a year ago) I thought this was true too but from what I can find it's not. Correct me if I'm wrong.) And K-lite isn't a good idea.

-Phrags are hard to grow and you need to have very high humidity or "live in Hawaii or something" to grow them well.

-Hydroponics/Semi-hydroponics doesn't work with orchids unless it's phrags and it's just unnatural. I know Ray's sight had some good info on this, I'll have to look at it again.

So help me break these myths. She's been telling everyone and talking about the above things. She's made newcomers shy away from phrags, S/H, and go for the bloom boosters. She thinks they're true and I haven't argued much with her otherwise.

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## valenzino (Jan 26, 2013)

...everithing wrong...
1)...urea free,but not low N...

2)...false,appart some species,Phrags are easy to grow,mostly easier than Paphs...

3)Opposite,someway,for many orchids types,s/h is more similar to their natural habitat condition.Maany orchids can be grown very succesfully in s/h...examplehrags,Paphs,Masdevallia,Dracula,Pleurothallis,Phaius,all jewel orchids..and maany more species and generas....

She must get a reset and update...


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## billc (Jan 26, 2013)

Well... good luck with that. It's hard to change someones mind when they have it already made up.
I only have a few catts, but they grow and bloom just fine no matter what ferts I give them. They get mostly K-lite.
Most people find Phrags fairly easy to grow as long as you keep them watered. High humidity certainly helps but is not absolutely necessary.
Saying S/H is unnatural is sort of correct, but everything we do in growing orchids in the home is unnatural. 

Bill


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## ehanes7612 (Jan 26, 2013)

phrags are soooooooo easy

i never use the high P and K ratios..things bloom for me just fine


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## Secundino (Jan 26, 2013)

Most of it comes down to your watering schedule and water quality. Watering a _Phrag_ is very different from watering a _Cattleya_. If you have 'pure' water (whatever you may call pure...) you may have to add fertilizer - but comparing to a tomato, it will be very little fertilizer... high N is no good advice, I think. But with pure water you can flush... And hydroponics do work - if you are good at it! if you want to use hydroponics for ease of watering, it may simply result in overwatering. And you should now the pH of the mix!
If your culture methods works for you, stick to it. There are many ways for sucessful culture of orchids. If the plants of your fellow orchid grower look happy, don't convince her to change!


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## Ray (Jan 26, 2013)

Your friend apparently doesn't KNOW anything, but is good at regurgitating the BS spread about by others.

An orchid plant is roughly 85% water, and of the remaining matter, about half is carbon. Nitrogen, oxygen, & hydrogen are present in the few-percent range each, and everything else is under 1% each, many in the ppm or ppb levels.

Some of the nitrogen is taken from the air, but the vast majority of it comes from fertilizer.

Concerning semi-hydroponics, ANY plant can be grown that way, but only if the rest of your conditions, coupled with those of the S/H pot, are good for the plant. As the inventor of the technique, with most of my collection growing that way, I probably have more experience than anyone, but that doesn't mean that I can grow everything that way. I will kill any vandaceous plant that I try, but know of folks who can only grow them that way.


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## Rick (Jan 26, 2013)

Try to put some numbers on things. Generally math doesn't lie.

high/low are worthless terms without references. If "high" humidity is anything over 40% then she may be correct about the phrags. I can't get much of anything to consistently do well below 40% except cactus. I wouldn't be surprised if some of those stumpy rock crevice dwelling catts do Ok at low humidity (i.e. less than 60%)

As for SH, Most orchids that we play with are epiphytic or lithophytic (including a good number of paphs).

Mounted plants technically are being grown hydroponically (no soil, roots in air sprayed intermittently with water).

Semi hydro is 1/2 way between mounted and standard potted.

Standard potted orchids are kept in the most unnatural fashion of the 3 basic potting systems. 

Your friend has not been exposed to a lot of other growers apparently. If she spends 5 minutes poking around on this site she could see a ton of happy plants grown by different methods than she advocates.


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## cnycharles (Jan 26, 2013)

maybe the proper method isn't to 'convince' the person to change their tune, just when you see her telling people something, go up to them (the newbies) later discreetly and mention that some of the things proposed aren't exactly true but we 'can't get them to change'... and then send them either here or give them a better clue, yourself. 

butting heads with someone will usually only cause them to consolidate their position and make you an enemy. best thing to do is help the others, or show off everything that you have grown (or others like here) using these 'other methods' that do actually work, and let them make up their own mind from their own observations. sometimes people in clubs take up a mantle, of sorts, because they think someone there needs to do it. of course other times it is just they want some attention.


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## Rick (Jan 26, 2013)

Yes

This is America! We can screw up our plants any way we want!!


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## The Orchid Boy (Jan 26, 2013)

Thanks for all the info. The one I most want to convince her of is phrags are hard to grow. She hasn't tried them because that's what she's heard. To her high humidity is 65% or 70% or more. She's grown orchids for a long time and I don't care that she uses bloom boosters and doesn't use s/h, but I'd love for her to experience phrags. She uses RO water, Dyna-Gro orchid, pots the plants in fresh mix in small pots, so she does everything fine and I know she could grow phrags. She may have tried them once before but I don't think she gave them near enough water. When I said you could grow them sitting in water she was shocked.


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## mrhappyrotter (Jan 26, 2013)

Yes, I find myself frequently educating people that phrags aren't really that difficult -- just different from other orchids in terms of the watering issue.

In fact, the "phrags are difficult to grow" misconception kept me from trying one for the first five or so years of my orchid obsession. At that time, even the experienced growers were telling me that I'd be wasting my money if I bought one. Which is sad, because they're definitely my favorite genus and the easiest for me to grow.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jan 26, 2013)

How old is she? When I first started growing orchids, back in the early 80's, phrags were rarely available. Sometimes caudatum. Hybrids were few and far between, and consisted of Grande, Sedenii, Calurum, Cardinale, and Schroderae. And were impossible to find. Caudatum is not the easiest phrag to grow and bloom. By the late 80's besseae appeared, and started the big hybridizing boom. But the original besseae were very hard to grow. So it may well be that her few experiences, and/or those of her friends, were bad. The modern besseae plants are easy as anything to grow, and the hybrids are even easier. But, not having experienced it first hand, she still remembers the tough times. Lots of people still feel that phrags can't tolerate fertilizer...I have found that the hybrids and bigger species can tolerate pretty strong doses and do very well. Another thing- for "windowsill" growers like me, keeping them in saucers of water, wet at all times, is essential. This contradicts anything and everything us old folks have read, so it's hard to get into that mindset.


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## Stone (Jan 30, 2013)

Is there really a point in trying to convince? Sooner or later she will find out for hereself whats true and whats not...If she grows orchids..


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