# Help...with seperating the Phrags



## Orchidnut57 (Jul 22, 2011)

From reading the many threads on Phrag culture I understand that a few do not like to have their 'feet' in water constantly ie. caundatum and xerophyticum. Is there a sourse that I can tap into and find how to segregate the wets ones from the drier ones. I am an indoor grower using fresh filtered water in saucers that is changed every 5 days. Many thanks


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## likespaphs (Jul 22, 2011)

while i don't have a source, i had heard, in addition to the Mexi, the long petal Phrags don't like to sit in water


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## Heather (Jul 22, 2011)

Correct, the caudatum types….including popowii, wallisii, caudatum, lindenii, tend to be more prone to erwinia (rot) and hence, sitting in water may not be wise depending on your conditions. Hybrids containing these types may also be more prone to rot, but again, your experience may vary. 

While I don't set my mexipedium in water, it is watered copiously in the summer months. I don't really let it dry out at all, and it sits in a tray that usually has some water in it, but the pot it is in has feet so it is kept just above the water level.


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## Orchidnut57 (Jul 22, 2011)

*Phrags...separating*



likespaphs said:


> while i don't have a source, i had heard, in addition to the Mexi, the long petal Phrags don't like to sit in water



Thank you for the quick replies... 
Do try to be patient with this Phrag-newby...and help me understand how do I look at my Phrag name labels ie: Phrag.longifolium var.Hinksianum or Phrag. Carol Kanzer and determine where they would fall under which species like those Heather listed...
Phrag species challenged here


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## Heather (Jul 22, 2011)

You'll want to know the parents if it's a hybrid. 
longifolium is a species, and not one of the caudatum/long-petaled types so it should be okay. 

Carol Kanzer is a hybrid of schlimii x hirtzii. No long petals there either. 

The only long petaled phrag species are caudatum, lindeii, popowii, wallisii. You may hear some also referred to as warscwiczeanum. This group has some naming issues but don't worry yourself with that for now, it will just be confusing.  You just would want to know if any of your hybrids have any of those names as one of the parents and that will give you a clue that they may not like as much water as the others.

Let us know if that doesn't make sense.


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## Orchidnut57 (Jul 22, 2011)

*Phrag seperation*



Heather said:


> You'll want to know the parents if it's a hybrid.
> longifolium is a species, and not one of the caudatum/long-petaled types so it should be okay.
> 
> Carol Kanzer is a hybrid of schlimii x hirtzii. No long petals there either.
> ...



Thanks Heather...I understand now...you guys are the best! :clap:


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## Rick (Jul 22, 2011)

likespaphs said:


> while i don't have a source, i had heard, in addition to the Mexi, the long petal Phrags don't like to sit in water



Correct but some people don't know what defines a long petaled phrag. So jump to Heather's post.

I've actually had long petals do well in net pots sitting in a tray of water.

So on the one hand they like less water than most other phrags (and Mexipedium really isn't a phrag anyway), they like to be watered a lot more than most paphs.

So my "long petals" are now in baskets that get watered every day. Same for besseae and kovachii types. My longifolium and pearcei types are standing in water (often using an inert media like hydroton balls that don't rot).


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## Orchidnut57 (Jul 22, 2011)

Rick said:


> Correct but some people don't know what defines a long petaled phrag. So jump to Heather's post.
> 
> I've actually had long petals do well in net pots sitting in a tray of water.
> 
> ...



Thanks Rick...net pots huh? I have all of mine in the Rand air cone with N.Z. moss...they flower and have lots of new growths...back to the old saying..if it ain't broke..don't fix it!


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## Heather (Jul 22, 2011)

Again, I would caution - everything depends on your conditions - Rick's in a greenhouse, so his culture is definitely a bit different than mine…etc...


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## SlipperFan (Jul 22, 2011)

The best place to learn what the parentage of a particular hybrid is is to go to the RHS (Royal Horticultural Society) website and enter in the name in the Grex name search: http://apps.rhs.org.uk/horticulturaldatabase/orchidregister/orchidregister.asp

You have to spell out Phragmipedium and the Hybrid name, and remember that the species name is not capitalized but a hybrid name is. If your hybrid is a complex one, you may have to go back more than one generation to get to the species behind it.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jul 22, 2011)

Basically, its the really long petalled types that shouldn't be kept with "wet feet". Some, like longifolium and the boisserianum complex have relatively long petals, and they do need to be kept wet. I keep all the hybrids wet.


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## Orchidnut57 (Jul 22, 2011)

SlipperFan said:


> The best place to learn what the parentage of a particular hybrid is is to go to the RHS (Royal Horticultural Society) website and enter in the name in the Grex name search: http://apps.rhs.org.uk/horticulturaldatabase/orchidregister/orchidregister.asp
> 
> You have to spell out Phragmipedium and the Hybrid name, and remember that the species name is not capitalized but a hybrid name is. If your hybrid is a complex one, you may have to go back more than one generation to get to the species behind it.



Cool! That was easy...thanks to all of you I am begining to get it! JOY!


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## Rick (Jul 23, 2011)

Eric Muehlbauer said:


> Basically, its the really long petalled types that shouldn't be kept with "wet feet". Some, like longifolium and the boisserianum complex have relatively long petals, and they do need to be kept wet. I keep all the hybrids wet.



The reasoning is that many of the caudatum (long tail) species grow in trees (epiphytically). Or on steep slopes away from springs or seepages. So they dry out relatively fast after the rains stop.

Most of the other species are terrestrial and either found next to creeks or spring seepages with almost constant, year round supply of water at the roots.

Mexipedium is also found near seepages in limestone sinkholes, but the water appears to dry up seasonally.


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## JeanLux (Jul 23, 2011)

I do have a spreadsheet with the phrag hybrids, that I did based on the rhs info at beginning of last year; so it may not be quite uptodate because I added only the hybr., that have been shown here since (Dot's, Eric's,...). If somebody is interested, pm me! Jean


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## SlipperFan (Jul 23, 2011)

That sounds interesting, Jean. I'm sure you know about Rob Z's website: http://www.phragweb.info/main_page.asp -- I think he keeps it pretty current, so if you need to add to your spreadsheet...

I didn't see this page on Rob's site until just now. Might help with names:
http://www.phragweb.info/phragmipedium/hybrids/rhs_orchid_register.asp


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## JeanLux (Jul 24, 2011)

SlipperFan said:


> That sounds interesting, Jean. I'm sure you know about Rob Z's website: http://www.phragweb.info/main_page.asp -- I think he keeps it pretty current, so if you need to add to your spreadsheet...
> 
> I didn't see this page on Rob's site until just now. Might help with names:
> http://www.phragweb.info/phragmipedium/hybrids/rhs_orchid_register.asp



thanks Dot!!!! Maybe I should do some validation and ev. update!!! Jean

(anyway, if there is any interest I can mail it, because I don't know if there is a poss. to connect sheets/docs to a pm?, without any cost of course) Jean


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## JeanLux (Jul 26, 2011)

JeanLux said:


> thanks Dot!!!! Maybe I should do some validation and ev. update!!! Jean
> 
> (anyway, if there is any interest I can mail it, because I don't know if there is a poss. to connect sheets/docs to a pm?, without any cost of course) Jean



update based on RHS-db (25.07.11) done  !!!! Jean


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## NYEric (Jul 26, 2011)

JeanLux's list is actually more up to date than Phragweb.


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## SlipperFan (Jul 26, 2011)

NYEric said:


> JeanLux's list is actually more up to date than Phragweb.



You are right -- and I wrote to Rob about that. :evil:

Jean did a fabulous job on this list -- definitely a good thing for Phrag-lovers to have. Thanks, Jean! :clap:


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## JeanLux (Jul 27, 2011)

SlipperFan said:


> You are right -- and I wrote to Rob about that. :evil:
> 
> Jean did a fabulous job on this list -- definitely a good thing for Phrag-lovers to have. Thanks, Jean! :clap:



Thanks Dot, 

and to all: if there is an interest, just pm me an email adress!!! Jean

(my inbox could be overloaded )


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