# Learning Maudiae color types



## polka (Jan 12, 2015)

Hello All

This is my first post here. I have only recently started growing Paphs.

I have a short presentation at my local orchid society. Most of our newbies are phal and paph growers on windowsills. Most have started out classically with some Maudiae hybrid.

However, Google has not been of much help because my query might have been worded wrong; and the AnTech lab pages are beginning to have broken/missing links.

Please tell me the differences between the different color forms of maudiae-type hybrids -- specifically the difference between coloratum and flamea types.

I understand the alba --green and white types
And I think I understand the vini-color types = without any white and green?

It is those inbetween types --coloratum, and flamea-- I need help with. 

Pictures would help immensely for me to get my mind around, and maybe something I would be allowed to share with my society would be nice, too, however it is not necessary.

I have posted this where I frequent the most (being a cattleya grower), so if you have seen this post already, please forgive. I have been given some info., but realized that this is the place I should have offered my questions first. 

Thanks a million for your time and trouble to consider my query.

Rex W. Ulmer
aka "Polka" on the various boards
May all your orchids bloom like crazy!


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## abax (Jan 13, 2015)

polka, try the website slipperorchids.info Lots of photos
of the different maudiae types.


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## Ozpaph (Jan 13, 2015)

Its all a bit subjective but let me try - 

I would call this a vini - http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35732. Intensely dark 'red' covering most of the petals and dorsal.

I would call this a coloratum - http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33572&highlight=maudiae. Or these -http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32178&highlight=maudiae.  Mostly red with a definite white background to the dorsal. Some have a halo of white around the dorsal. The petals are not all red.

I would call this a 'flame' variety - http://www.marriottorchids.com/Gallery photos/Maudiae GarnetFlame.jpg. A big red dorsal which isnt very dark and petals that arent dark red, but I think its all a bit arbitrary.


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## polka (Jan 13, 2015)

Angela -- Thanks for pointing to another source. BTW, the splash catt I got from you a couple of seasons ago is hot on!

Ozpaph -- thanks for the reply and pictures. Appreciate your time and trouble to help. 

Take care, y'all

Rex


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## PaphMadMan (Jan 13, 2015)

OzPaph's examples are quite good. 

Obviously there is middle ground between coloratum and flame, and between flame and vinicolor, where a distinction is arbitrary. Also, a coloratum could have significantly less red/purple/brown color than this example and still be coloratum. Any trace of red/purple/brown color prevents something from being alba. You may see flowers with just a slight trace of red/purple/brown described as albescent.

And don't get hung up on hybrids with Flame or any other color descriptive term in the name. The cross may have been named for one early good flower of a type, but the hybrid could still appear in any color phase.


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## NYEric (Jan 13, 2015)

Welcome to the forum!


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## Trithor (Jan 13, 2015)

In rather broad and simple terms, The term 'coloratum' is a broad term used to distinguish coloured forms from album forms. The use of the term became important to distinguish between plants bred using the normal coloured parents from those bred with the album parents (as in Maudiae 'The Queen' a clone which was bred from album callosum and lawrenceanum, while those Maudiae clones bred from regular coloured forms are then coloratum). The coloratum forms are then further subdivided into various sub-forms based on the distribution and intensity of colour. So flames are a form of coloratum. You will find a whole range of different names being used for coloratum forms around the world. Vini are a group of Maudiae and Maudiae types which have been bred using a distinct group of clones of callosum (or viniferum depending on if you view it as a distinct species). The term has been generally applied to the Maudiae types which have been bred from those lines and others which show a similar distribution of colour without any white (or very little)......approx


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## polka (Jan 13, 2015)

Thank you Kirk, Eric, and Trithor!

You have helped much in making things much more clear. Simple? probably not, but I'm much closer than last week! Ha!

Take care
May all your orchids bloom like crazy

Rex


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## abax (Jan 14, 2015)

Rex, I love hearing how orchids I've traded, given away or
auctioned are doing! Thank you. Hope you can post a
photo when the plant is in bloom.

Oh, the site I mentioned has all the orchid hybrid groups
divided and photos of many of a particular cross including
Maudiae types and their individual modifications through
breeding.


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## polka (Jan 14, 2015)

Angela
thanks much.

It will have to be a short study, since I am giving the talk Sunday afternoon.

I have talked with a few members in advance, and they are looking forward to the info.
I'm glad of that.

Hate to speak, and bore them to tears.

Rex


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## SlipperFan (Jan 14, 2015)

Good luck with your talk, and welcome to Slippertalk, Rex.


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## abax (Jan 15, 2015)

Bore 'em until their eyes glaze over. That's what orchid
people do! A couple of garden clubs wanted to see my
greenhouse. I fixed 'em. I talked their heads off and they've never asked to come by again. It's such a relief!


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## The Mutant (Jan 15, 2015)

abax said:


> Bore 'em until their eyes glaze over. That's what orchid
> people do! A couple of garden clubs wanted to see my
> greenhouse. I fixed 'em. I talked their heads off and they've never asked to come by again. It's such a relief!


:rollhappy:

They do tend to get a bit glassy eyed after the first hour, right?


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## polka (Jan 15, 2015)

I work on a private estate.
I can't host a meeting, by request of the owners.

A member asked about seeing the greenhouse by making a power point of the house, heating, cooling, benches, pots plants, and benches. 

He was the only one who thanked me. The rest did glaze over. I thought I went pretty fast at 40 minutes for a 90x30 greenhouse!

I usually try not to get assignments like this. I do this sort of thing once a month already for the newsletter. Once in a while, I get to do double duty.

Thanks again for all your help.
Take care, All

Rex


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## PaphMadMan (Jan 15, 2015)

polka said:


> I work on a private estate.
> I can't host a meeting, by request of the owners.
> 
> A member asked about seeing the greenhouse by making a power point of the house, heating, cooling, benches, pots plants, and benches.
> ...



Kudos to you for stepping up and making the effort for your society. There will always be those who demand much (to your face), criticize more (behind your back), and thank little. Since those are usually the loudest, they can seem like the majority. Remember to put your own interests first most of the time, or it can be easy to burn out.


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## polka (Jan 15, 2015)

Thanks for the reminder, and the encouragement.
R


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## polka (Jan 17, 2015)

And Dot,
Thanks for the welcome!

R


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## Ozpaph (Jan 18, 2015)

Can we see your presentation? Sounds interesting - that's one big greenhouse.


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## polka (Jan 19, 2015)

I'm not sure how to post a PPPresentation, but will look it up, and see what I can do.

thanks for the interest.

Rex


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## orchidsimplicit (Jan 19, 2015)

Welcome, Rex!


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