# A Phrag Comparison, Hybrids Part 1



## SlipperKing (May 30, 2012)

I thought some would find this interesting. Here is Sorcerer's Apprentice, (longifolium X sargentianum).






And here is Yu-Fu-Liu 'Red Star' (lindleyanum X caricinum)




Both flowers extremely similar but now compare the plant growth habits. Very big difference. The Sorcerer's App. is close to the height as myself, 5 foot, 8 inches. No windowsill plant.


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## SlipperFan (May 30, 2012)

Interesting comparison. I do see quite a lot of difference between the pouches.


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## SlipperKing (May 30, 2012)

Geez Dot you must of miss the part where I described the flowers as being, "Both flowers extremely similar" LOL


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## SlipperFan (May 30, 2012)

SlipperKing said:


> Geez Dot you must of miss the part where I described the flowers as being, "Both flowers extremely similar" LOL



No, I didn't miss that. They are similar. I had just looked at your comparison of pearcei with ecuadorense, and didn't see much difference. Then I came to this thread and saw a more pronounced difference. Association, I guess...


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## Hera (May 30, 2012)

Thanks for the side by side.


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## NYEric (May 31, 2012)

Why all these green phrags!? oke:


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## Silvan (Jul 26, 2012)

Thanks for the comparison pic.. I like the growing habit of the Yu-Fu Liu and the size is perfect for growing under fluorescent lights... Do you think that if the Sorcerer's Apprentice would have been made using the longifolium roezlii it would have bee smaller in stature ?


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## SlipperKing (Jul 26, 2012)

A very good possiblity if roezlii or even another the varity, hinckinanum could bring the size down. On the other side, I had a very small blooming plant of lindleyanum. It too would bring the size down.


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## Shiva (Jul 26, 2012)

My Sorcerer's Apprentice seedlings is growing quite fast, and now I know what to expect.


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## SlipperKing (Jul 27, 2012)

Mine is right at 36 inch leaf span, what is yours?


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## Phrag-Plus (Jul 27, 2012)

Hi Rick, Usually, in hybridization caricinum give to it’s offspring a strong inner pouch marking pattern and coloration. What is lacking here in this hybrid?



SlipperKing said:


> I thought some would find this interesting. Here is Sorcerer's Apprentice, (longifolium X sargentianum).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Here is a picture of Yu-Fu-Liu and a link to Vampire Slayer to show what I'm talking about that usual caricinum pattern…






http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15249&highlight=vampire+slayer

To compare here is a cross I've made years ago using a smaller lindleyanum X hincksianum = Mem. Ed Murphy who look pretty similar to your plant.









SlipperKing said:


> Both flowers extremely similar but now compare the plant growth habits. Very big difference. The Sorcerer's App. is close to the height as myself, 5 foot, 8 inches. No windowsill plant.



There are many variety of longifolium from the very small to the big monster one, here is var. gracile and var. hincksianum a small longifolium too. But crossed with sargentianum both of them will be call S. Apprentice what ever the size they will reach. Size can be a tricky criterion for identification. Even from a same cross we can find giant and dwarf plants...


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## NYEric (Jul 27, 2012)

Nice photos and you may be right. the caricinum does not appear to be an influence in Rick's Phrag Yu-Fu-Liu!


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## smartie2000 (Jul 28, 2012)

Nice! are they both as floriferous? I prefer whichever blooms more often, over size


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## SlipperKing (Jul 28, 2012)

I'm only going by the tag JP. I'm no Phrag hybrid expert. It could very will be a non-caricinum hybrid. I've had this plant since March of 96' and the original tag is long gone. I do remember the tag only had the parents for the longest time until I looked it up on the RHS website. 
It could be the breeder of this clone used a misidentified caricinum.


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## Phrag-Plus (Jul 29, 2012)

SlipperKing said:


> I'm only going by the tag JP. I'm no Phrag hybrid expert. It could very will be a non-caricinum hybrid. I've had this plant since March of 96' and the original tag is long gone. I do remember the tag only had the parents for the longest time until I looked it up on the RHS website.
> It could be the breeder of this clone used a misidentified caricinum.



I’m agree with you Rick, we all trust the tag first… It is the way to do it! 

Were the error come from??? Very difficult to say! Can be from identification of the parent or from a mistake in the writing. 

It is so easy to do a mistake after writing a couple of hundred of tag, thinking longifolium and writing caricinum…? When tire a misspelling or miswriting can happen so easily with those names… 

Jean-Pierre


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## NYEric (Jul 29, 2012)

Did he just say, "too much wine"?!?! :evil:


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## Phrag-Plus (Jul 30, 2012)

NYEric said:


> Did he just say, "too much wine"?!?! :evil:



I forgot that option too...


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## SlipperFan (Jul 30, 2012)

So, Rick, do you think your Yu-Fu-Liu is really Mem. Ed Murphy (lindleyanum X hincksianum)? I need to change a tag...


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## Shiva (Jul 31, 2012)

SlipperKing said:


> Mine is right at 36 inch leaf span, what is yours?



23 inches. The previous growth is only 10 inches wide.


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## SlipperKing (Aug 1, 2012)

So JP, does caricinum ever past on the characteristic "green" dot seen in my flowers of Yu-Fu-Liu (inside pouch-back of throat)? I know this dot is in character with longifolum breeding traits.
If the answer is "no" Dot then I would say yes, we need a name change.


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## Phrag-Plus (Aug 1, 2012)

SlipperKing said:


> So JP, does caricinum ever past on the characteristic "green" dot seen in my flowers of Yu-Fu-Liu (inside pouch-back of throat)? I know this dot is in character with longifolum breeding traits.
> If the answer is "no" Dot then I would say yes, we need a name change.



Usually caricinum hybrid are showing very particular characters, larger brown or enlarged green dot in the pouch are one of these. When hybridized with besseae or schlimii we can see large and colourful lines. 
Pouches colourations, venation and the way the petals are hold are good indications too. 

If you look at all those hybrids you’ll see what I’m talking about the particular blotch patches, patterns and speckled in the pouches. 

caricinum 
x Barbara LeAnn =	Wild Horse Mesa
x besseae =	Mary Bess
x boissierianum =	Joe Chow
x Cardinale =	Mem. William Intven
x caudatum =	Dominianum
x dalessandroï = Mont Cambrai
x Eric Young =	Appalachian Sunset
x Grande	= Evy Finegan
x Hanne Popow =	Mietenkam
x Lemoinierianum =	Turconiense
x Les Dirouilles =	Jean Troalen
x lindleyanum =	Yu-Fu Lui
x longifolium =	Conchiferum
x Mary Bess =	Nate Bremer
x Mem. Dick Clements =	Chrissy Nash
x Petit Port =	Rob Zuiderwijk
x Praying Mantis =	Sparkling Chablis
x richteri = Jon Cowls
x sargentianum =	Vampire Slayer
x schlimii	= Stenophyllum
x Sedenii	= Raymond Faroult (Faroultii)
x Sorcerer's Apprentice =	Peter Pan
x wallisii = Louis Hegedus
x warszewiczii =	Meditation


Sorry Rick! The answer is no...


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## SlipperFan (Aug 2, 2012)

Looks like we need a name change, Rick...


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