# My godefroyae & leucochilum



## Hien (Jul 22, 2019)

This species is among my favorite ones.
I took pictures of some of the blooms , other flowers were wilted by the time I received the plants, in that case I will have to use the photos from the sellers . You are welcome to check back from time to time, i will add more photos of new plants. 

Blumen Insel No.1


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## Hien (Jul 22, 2019)

This one is Blumen Insel No.2 ,Hanajima HPA 3089, Thanh Nguyen of Springwater Orchids took this picture


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## troy (Jul 22, 2019)

Nice!!


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## Hien (Jul 22, 2019)

plant 3, Blumen Insel Hanajima HPA 3089, same breeding as plant no.2 , you can tell from the look that they came out from the same flask, photo Thanh Nguyen of Springwater Orchids


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## Hien (Jul 22, 2019)

Blumen Insel No.4 same breeding as No.2 & No.3 but it is harder to tell that it came from the same parents. I notice that the flower has a lot of white flecks landing on it, Thanh must be spray-paint refurbishing some furniture near by on that day


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## Hien (Jul 22, 2019)

Blumen Insel No.5, this one is a different cross, Hanajima tags as black cross, but I think it still has a long run to get to that point


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## Ozpaph (Jul 22, 2019)

they are very nice!


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## Hien (Jul 22, 2019)

troy said:


> Nice!!


thanks Troy, stay tuned, there will be more to come


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## Hien (Jul 22, 2019)

Ozpaph said:


> they are very nice!


some of the ones that I will post shortly will be so so, run of the mill, but some of them will be nice, I promise, perhaps a dozen more.


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## Hien (Jul 23, 2019)

plant No.6 a different Blumen Insel cross (HPA 3090) I got from Thanh, photo by Thanh Nguyen Springwater Orchids. I think the shape and pattern is nice enough, so I use it to breed with a solid color


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## Hien (Jul 23, 2019)

No.7 is also from the "Hanajima black cross", I got this a month ago from Thanh. the veins are closer to each other, better than No.5 , the dorsal is close to solid color. He still has a dozen or so available on his ebay store.


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## Hien (Jul 23, 2019)

I got No.8 from Thanh same time a month ago as No.7, very pretty, however the stem is so thin, the flower could not hold itself up. If it can not produce a strong stem next bloom, then the flaw is inherited. This one actually has a tag with full parents' names "Red Devil" x "Giant".


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## Hien (Jul 23, 2019)

Blumen Insel No.9 , probably got from Springwater last summer. A lot more white background and less pattern than other crosses


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## Hien (Jul 23, 2019)

I have a feeling that this one shares the same parents with No.2, No.3 & No.4. I show Thanh's photo, because it was no longer fresh looking to be photographed when I got it


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## Hien (Jul 23, 2019)

This is No.11 (Blumen Insel breeding), I would range it at the bottom. I collect it just because the pattern is different from the others, but the shape is not good


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## Hien (Jul 23, 2019)

No. 12, actually this has a Popow tag even it was sold by Springwater so I don't think this is Hanajima breeding, photo by Thanh Nguyen (Springwater Orchids), of all of the ones I collect, this one has the best looking full egg shape pouch .


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## Hien (Jul 23, 2019)

I got 2 plants of this breeding from Big Leaf orchids ,Peter only got a few of these from a Taiwanese breeder. I keep the name tag "PALEU" #1, maybe it has something to do with the cross or just his inventory number.


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## Hien (Jul 23, 2019)

second plant "PALEU" #2, also from Peter


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## Hien (Jul 23, 2019)

These next 4 pictures are of the same bloom , Peter imported even less of this Taiwanese cross #5130:
leucochilum "Account Maeping" x "Account Honey"


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## Hien (Jul 23, 2019)

profile view of #5130


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## Hien (Jul 23, 2019)

side view of #5130


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## Hien (Jul 23, 2019)

top view of #5130


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## GuRu (Jul 24, 2019)

Lovely and very impressive the outcome of this cross BlumenInsel, how the look of the progenies differs. Keep us posted.


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## Hien (Jul 25, 2019)

GuRu said:


> Lovely and very impressive the outcome of this cross BlumenInsel, how the look of the progenies differs. Keep us posted.


 Rudolf, I agree with you about the Blumen Insel cross result. The American breeders did not pay attention to the Brachy group, so the field has been dominated by japanese & Thai breeders lately, in my opinion, the majority of any plants result from their breeding already surpass the old awarded American plants.
Here is the batch of plants I got from Orchid Inn, at the time, Sam was the only vendor who imported these from the Thai breeder. Now a day, you could also find these from other ebay sellers. I did not buy more of them at the time , I just got 2 plants from each crosses to get a sample of variation since i don't know what the parents' flowers look like,
The first of 6 plants is cross PAS0605 "Bleeding Heart" x"Gold Fish"


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## Hien (Jul 25, 2019)

This 2nd one also is cross PAS 0605 "Bleeding Heart" x"Gold Fish"


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## Hien (Jul 25, 2019)

plant 3 is PAS 0606 "Gold Fish" x "No.1". I really like the water fountain pattern of this one


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## Hien (Jul 25, 2019)

plant 4 also PAS 0606 "Gold Fish" x "No.1"


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## Hien (Jul 25, 2019)

plant 5 is PAS 0607 "Dark" x "Fine Spots" , from the look of the result, it seems "Fine Spots" dominates the outcome


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## Hien (Jul 25, 2019)

plant 6 is PAS 0607 "Dark" x "Fine spots" , again I did not see anything dark in this result, may be the parents were chosen to breed round shape


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## Hien (Jul 25, 2019)

here is a group picture of 4 of them together
for side by side comparison


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## Hien (Jul 28, 2019)

Next are two plants with very compact growth habit and small leaves, horizontal shape flowers.
The whiter one , Thanh of Springwater got it for me at Tamiami show from Popow orchids.


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## Hien (Jul 28, 2019)

this second one I got from Chuck Acker back when he sold all of his breeding stud paphs , it has a clone name leucochilum 'Red'. You can see how tiny the leaves are compare to the flower . Notice how round and nice the pouches are from these two plants ( most bigger plants have skinny elongated pouches)


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## Hien (Jul 28, 2019)

This is a Thai breeding godefroyae (seller photo) , almost died in 2016 after blooming, not one leaf left, just roots, since then the regrow is weak . Hope it decides to live , because it is quite nice and very different from most plants I see on the current market. Notice the relative size of the pouch comparing to the petals . If it survives and re-blooms I will self it and donate the seeds to preserve this line.



by the way, keep checking back, I will try to add all of the photos of this species in the collection to one thread.


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## GuRu (Jul 29, 2019)

Hien, very, very impressive all these godefroyae line breeding crosses. One is nicer than the other. The photo of the last one is from 2016, before the plant collapsed? If only roots survived it will be a hard job to do to keep it alive. Good luck.


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## Hien (Jul 29, 2019)

GuRu said:


> Hien, very, very impressive all these godefroyae line breeding crosses. One is nicer than the other. The photo of the last one is from 2016, before the plant collapsed? If only roots survived it will be a hard job to do to keep it alive. Good luck.


I had quite a few plants which decided to perish, some painfully keepers. Some my own faults of not pay enough attention to their condition. But some definitely not, for example these 2 plants that I ordered around 2016 from orchidzone, I learned later on that the ownership was changing hand consequently were a little bit disorganize . Any way, the employee (probably new hired) packed the plants wet, when I say wet, it is not an exaggeration, the whole root zone is dripping . When the box was opened, the leaves of one plant already in full blown oozing smelly brown liquid, despite all the effort to save it, the poor creature died, the second plant was in bud, managed to bloom then died as well . An experience packer would send orchid plant with the root zone dry to prevent infection.
These plants supposedly to be what orchidzone called "Red Black type" and expensive. I never got a refund or had the chance to used a promise discount for future buying, I contacted orchidzone to inquire what discount they have in mind, but never heard from them again . So I decided to call it a lost and not pursuit of the vaguely promise discount. I am sure that the result of disorganizing was not with intention to treat the customer badly. Anyway this was the bloom, it did not achieve the full red saturation of the advertised example clone that they bloomed .


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## Hien (Jul 29, 2019)

Anyway, too much off topic ramble, here are the next three from Popow orchids, when he participated in one of the Florida international shows . They were not in bloom at purchase. Slippertalk members could safely assume that the "Joe's Best" plants are good enough to buy un-bloomed if they see them on the market .


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## Hien (Jul 29, 2019)

Joe's Best , plant no.2


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## Hien (Jul 29, 2019)

The third one is very large, the petals have symmetrical fading pattern at the bottom


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## Hien (Jul 29, 2019)

This one is from Rob of Littlefrogfarm Orchids , the breeding is"Yellow Eight Ball" x"Full Moon", 
Somehow, I remember Rob said they are from Orchid Inn's flask


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## Hien (Jul 29, 2019)

Same breeding line as the previous one, bigger. However, I think the previous one looks better


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## Hien (Jul 29, 2019)

Next are the saturated red type. They are very velvety
The next three photos are from the same bloom, the type Alexej designated "Red Volcano". This is my first plant, front view


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## Hien (Jul 29, 2019)

photo from the back, as a way to id these plants by color and pattern when they still in bud.


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## Hien (Jul 29, 2019)

Top View showing pouch feature


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## Hien (Jul 29, 2019)

Red Volcano No.3, front view.
Saturated wine red Velvety.
I am not sure what happened to No.2 !


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## Hien (Jul 29, 2019)

Profile of the same bloom


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## Hien (Jul 29, 2019)

It resembles a nice fat rabbit from the back.
even down to the downy white skin


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## GuRu (Jul 30, 2019)

Sad to hear your bad experiences with the bad shipped plants of orchidzone. Popow has a great amount/variety of extraordinary good godefroyaes which are all linebreeded. But since the son Alex is running the buisness the prices have increased remarkably.


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## NYEric (Jul 30, 2019)

Thanks for sharing. PAS#607 from Sam are the best in terms of substance and shape. The color on the OZ would have been good upon 2nd blooming.


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## Hien (Jul 30, 2019)

GuRu said:


> Sad to hear your bad experiences with the bad shipped plants of orchidzone. Popow has a great amount/variety of extraordinary good godefroyaes which are all linebreeded. But since the son Alex is running the buisness the prices have increased remarkably.


 You are right, I think Alexej has a lot of orchid friends in Japan and Thailand so he is always up to date with all of the latest breeding lines .


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## Hien (Jul 30, 2019)

NYEric said:


> Thanks for sharing. PAS#607 from Sam are the best in terms of substance and shape. The color on the OZ would have been good upon 2nd blooming.


 Eric, there are two of the PAS#607, which one you think are the best?


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## Hien (Jul 30, 2019)

Red Vulcano no.4 front view, from Alexej


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## Hien (Jul 30, 2019)

Red Vulcano no.4 view from top


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## Hien (Jul 30, 2019)

Red Vulcano no.4 side view


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## Hien (Jul 30, 2019)

Red Vulcano no.4 view from back


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## troy (Jul 30, 2019)

Wow!! Wonderful selection!! I'm assuming you are going to breed these?? If I were you I would!!


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## Hien (Jul 30, 2019)

troy said:


> Wow!! Wonderful selection!! I'm assuming you are going to breed these?? If I were you I would!!


 -I am indecisive between the choice of selfing each bloom to itself to further retain the individual look, or cross them with the ones that you guessing would compensate for any flaw? (from what experts saying, even a selfing would still result in a bunch of slightly different siblings)
-another hard decision is whether to pollinate 1st bloom, expert saying that doing that may weaken the young plant and kill it, on the other hand if you don't pollinate right away, and the plant still dies, you lose the chance of capture its genetic feature (this actually happened to me already, there were very nice plants died before i had the chance to capture its potential, I also cross a few 1st bloom plants and they did not die, however I am not sure one should push one's luck)


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## troy (Jul 31, 2019)

Whenever I have doubt about culture I always google search weather the native area it grows in and tweak my growing conditions accordingly


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## Justin (Jul 31, 2019)

Holy moly!!!!

VERY impressive!


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## Hien (Jul 31, 2019)

Justin said:


> Holy moly!!!!
> 
> VERY impressive!


Thanks Justin, I still have a few more blooms to post, I need to clean up these photos' busy back ground a little bit, to make it easier for peoples to exam the blooms .
If you look at the Japanese and Thai websites, their godefroyae/leucochilum blooms are absolutely stunning and really superior compare to these.


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## littlefrog (Jul 31, 2019)

Hien said:


> This one is from Rob of Littlefrogfarm Orchids , the breeding is"Yellow Eight Ball" x"Full Moon", Somehow, I remember Rob said they are from Orchid Inn's flask


I believe they are from a flask I got from Orchid Inn, yes. It is possible they came out of Chuck Acker's breeding, but I doubt it.


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## littlefrog (Jul 31, 2019)

So Hien - this was awarded as Paph. godefroyae a couple weeks ago. It is what I call a heritage plant, it came out of a very old collection and is probably either wild collected or at most one generation away from wild. It isn't big (but it is a good grower). Is it godefroyae, leucochilum, or?


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## Hien (Jul 31, 2019)

littlefrog said:


> So Hien - this was awarded as Paph. godefroyae a couple weeks ago. It is what I call a heritage plant, it came out of a very old collection and is probably either wild collected or at most one generation away from wild. It isn't big (but it is a good grower). Is it godefroyae, leucochilum, or?


 hi Rob, which award does this one garner?
it does not look too big, nor being bred to AOS phalaenopsis roundness specification yet, amazing you could keep a near wild heritage plant alive so long. Must have many growths by now?
By your question, what other species out there do you think it is close too? how closely does it fit a typo species description? I have a feeling that this species contains a lot of variations & closely related types that give you open end opportunities to pursuit various breeding lines.


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## littlefrog (Aug 1, 2019)

Hien said:


> hi Rob, which award does this one garner?
> it does not look too big, nor being bred to AOS phalaenopsis roundness specification yet, amazing you could keep a near wild heritage plant alive so long. Must have many growths by now?
> By your question, what other species out there do you think it is close too? how closely does it fit a typo species description? I have a feeling that this species contains a lot of variations & closely related types that give you open end opportunities to pursuit various breeding lines.



Low HCC (76 points? 75 maybe). Only around 6cm NS. I can't take too much credit for keeping it alive, I've only had it a couple years. It came from a gentleman who had been in business for ~40 years. I don't know how long he had it, but many of his paph species were imported back before CITES was enforced. Came to me struggling a bit, pretty infested with mealies. I've gotten it up to a 4" pot with maybe six or seven growths.

For me, I can't tell if it is leucochilum or godefroyae - or maybe something else entirely. It is awarded as godefroyae because that is what the tag says. It hasn't been paid for yet, so I can probably change it fairly easily if I were confident in the identification. I thought maybe thaianum might be an option. It is smaller growing than any other godefroyae I've had. I confess no particular expertise in brachys, at least the taxonomy part. I grow them better than I can tell them apart...


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## Hien (Aug 1, 2019)

"For me, I can't tell if it is leucochilum or godefroyae - or maybe something else entirely. It is awarded as godefroyae because that is what the tag says. It hasn't been paid for yet, so I can probably change it fairly easily if I were confident in the identification. I thought maybe thaianum might be an option. It is smaller growing than any other godefroyae I've had. I confess no particular expertise in brachys, at least the taxonomy part. I grow them better than I can tell them apart... "

Going by the white pouch , it would be var. leucochilum , wouldn't it ?
but you are right, it looks quite close to Thaianum . How do the leaves look? Thaianum are very small though .
http://www.orchidroots.com/orchid/347767/species_detail/?tab=gal
by the way, while looking for thaianum photo examples, I notice Hungsheng updated their photos, looks like their godefroyae/leucochilum also show the new breeding lines look of the Thai and the Japanese.
click & scroll down to their godefroyae/leucochilum portion , you will see what I mean.
http://www.hungsheng.com.tw/index.php?module=product&mn=1&catid=2030


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## NYEric (Aug 2, 2019)

The latest photos have good color for plants in the USA. Thanks for sharing. If the plants are healthy then cross them as soon as possible, and if you have a flasker...


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## Hien (Aug 3, 2019)

NYEric said:


> The latest photos have good color for plants in the USA. Thanks for sharing. If the plants are healthy then cross them as soon as possible, and if you have a flasker...


Eric, I will keep that in mind and try to pollinate all available blooms .

here is another new leucochilum line breeding from Alexej. He gave it the clone name "Black Mountain"
I try to clean up the busy background behind the flower before posting, not quite a good job around the leaves. The pattern has the Chinese brushwork painting effect to it.


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## Hien (Aug 3, 2019)

A similar one Alexej names godefroyae "Dark", it also has the Chinese ink painting pattern . Same breeding line . Even one called leucochilum and one godefroyae, I believe they came from the same parentage .


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## BrucherT (Aug 3, 2019)

littlefrog said:


> So Hien - this was awarded as Paph. godefroyae a couple weeks ago. It is what I call a heritage plant, it came out of a very old collection and is probably either wild collected or at most one generation away from wild. It isn't big (but it is a good grower). Is it godefroyae, leucochilum, or?


I love that: “heritage plant.” I would love to grow it if ever you divide out or self.


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## Hien (Aug 3, 2019)

The next three photos are from this Red & Black edition godefroyae .
It is close to saturated color coverage, but one could still detect the lighter base in the background. The flower was slightly wilted at the time the pictures were taken, the petals were no longer spread out fully


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## Hien (Aug 3, 2019)




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## Hien (Aug 3, 2019)

This breeding line is larger then the Vulcano line, in my opinion the vulcano line looks more like tulip flower in shape, these are more open & flatter.
Evidently however , different strokes for different folks, because the price of the vulvano plants could be as high or even higher than the Red/Black edition . One would be surprised to find the cost for the plant with the not wide open flat flower to be higher.


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## Hien (Aug 3, 2019)

The next 3 photos are of the godefroyae 'Darkside' clone.
It is quite hard to take picture of it and not getting the glare.


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## Hien (Aug 3, 2019)

this photo is closer to the true color of the flower


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## Hien (Aug 3, 2019)

view from top showing the texture


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## NYEric (Aug 5, 2019)

Wow! All good quality in regards to color. Thanks for sharing.


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## fibre (Aug 9, 2019)

littlefrog said:


> So Hien - this was awarded as Paph. godefroyae a couple weeks ago. It is what I call a heritage plant, it came out of a very old collection and is probably either wild collected or at most one generation away from wild. It isn't big (but it is a good grower). Is it godefroyae, leucochilum, or?



This is most probably Paph. Greyi (godefroyae x niveum)!


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## fibre (Aug 9, 2019)

Hien, you have a stunning collection of these Brachys! Congrats!


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## Hien (Aug 10, 2019)

fibre said:


> Hien, you have a stunning collection of these Brachys! Congrats!


Thanks, I feel that most paph species are so consistent that one does not have enough variation to collect more than a few plants (perhaps some samples of flower shape, size, maybe a few different color shades) This species however does lend itself to branching out in unexhaustive variation of line breeding.
If you look on the internet, there are very impressive greenhouses in Thailand with thousands and thousands of godefroyae/leucochilum breeding stud plants. Each of them has a different look
https://www.nanagarden.com/product/258290


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## Hien (Aug 10, 2019)

NYEric said:


> Wow! All good quality in regards to color. Thanks for sharing.


 you are welcome Eric, here is another one that I just finish cleaning up the background, this flower does have a thin white rim around the petals (it is not left over from clean up), you can tell from the dark hair below the white at bottom of the petals.


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## Hien (Aug 10, 2019)

by the way, there is a link to Joe Orchids (I believe this Thai breeder is a slippertalk member by the name misterpaphio), I posted on slippertalk before.
That website's link is no longer working.
Here is a different link to the same material in case you decide to import this species from Thailand .
http://siameseorchidfarm.com/Paph-godefroyae.html
If you could do it directly , imagine the immense choices you can pick from. In my case, I can only access to the limited plants that were sold in US shows or imported by US nurseries.


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## werner.freitag (Aug 11, 2019)

You can find Joe on Facebook, too. Joe Orchids is the name.

Have a nice week !


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## Hien (Aug 12, 2019)

werner.freitag said:


> You can find Joe on Facebook, too. Joe Orchids is the name.
> 
> Have a nice week !


thanks, I will look it up


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## NYEric (Aug 12, 2019)

If I was importing from Thai, it would be other things, trust me!


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## Hien (Aug 12, 2019)

"If I was importing from Thai, it would be other things, trust me!"
what could it be more beautiful than the godefroyae/leucochilum species 
Was my bias that obvious .


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## Hien (Aug 12, 2019)

werner.freitag said:


> You can find Joe on Facebook, too. Joe Orchids is the name.
> Have a nice week !


 following your cue about facebook, I stumble on this "leucochilum club"
https://www.facebook.com/pages/category/Community/Leucochilum-Club-869731283075604/
and this one
https://www.facebook.com/Sure-Paph-paphio-608318435941399/?ref=py_c
and someone showing a giant leucochilum
https://www.facebook.com/kerbkerb/photos/a.10153062173540439/10153355830175439/?type=3&size=960,960&fbid=10153355830175439
and variation in leucochilum album
https://www.facebook.com/113976228698877/photos/a.414220932007737/1301886816574473/?type=3
oh my gods is all I can muster to say


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## Phred (Aug 13, 2019)

Hien said:


> following your cue about facebook, I stumble on this "leucochilum club"
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/category/Community/Leucochilum-Club-869731283075604/
> and this one
> https://www.facebook.com/Sure-Paph-paphio-608318435941399/?ref=py_c
> ...


Thanks for the links. Most of the plants appear to be potted in an inorganic mix instead of bark. What’s the groups consensus on this. In bark I have to be very careful to water less or I kill them.


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## Hien (Aug 13, 2019)

Phred said:


> Thanks for the links. Most of the plants appear to be potted in an inorganic mix instead of bark. What’s the groups consensus on this. In bark I have to be very careful to water less or I kill them.


Phred, very keen observation, after reading your comment, I look at their photos again. 
Sure enough , the mix seems to be aliflor , leca clay pebble type, smooth river bed pebbles, various color stone chips, and the white stuff ( I don't know what the white stuff is, maybe lime stone ?
-barely any wood chips (unless there is wood chip underneath the clay pebbles, and the stones are top dressing)
May be this is the key to keep the plants less prone to rot? Anyone try this medium mixing formular before?


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## Happypaphy7 (Aug 14, 2019)

It is very humid and warm in Thailand. Organic potting mix will go mushy in no time. They use inorganic material for practical reason. 
For example, they grow large Dendrobiums in broken brick or large chunks of charcoal.


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## werner.freitag (Aug 15, 2019)

True. I use mainly Orchiata with some lava and sand. I got Paphis in 100 % coarse sand or stones in plasic pots, no problems over years keeping them.

Brick or charcoal is often used for other orchids. Coconut-based materials are cheap, require a lot of cleaning, work only a short time.

An Orchiata problem is the price !

I am using a fertilizer like K-Lite , twice a year just spray dolomite 200g/100l over all my orchids, sometimes a benzalkonium bacterizide or copper against bacteria.

Now is rainy season , rain goes often trough the shade plastic, checking for rot is necessary.


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## Hien (Aug 22, 2019)

werner.freitag said:


> True. I use mainly Orchiata with some lava and sand. I got Paphis in 100 % coarse sand or stones in plasic pots, no problems over years keeping them.
> 
> Brick or charcoal is often used for other orchids. Coconut-based materials are cheap, require a lot of cleaning, work only a short time.
> 
> ...


 Sounds like you growing them in tropical climate?


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## werner.freitag (Aug 22, 2019)

yes, Northern Thailand


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