# Finally Started: Greenhouse



## paphreek (May 5, 2010)

Just thought I'd post a few pictures of our small greenhouse as it's built. I would have liked a larger one, but space and heating costs tempered the size. The measurements will be 24ft x 32ft.

DAY ONE

Here is the first groundbreaking", as a hole is dug to access the water line from the well.








Water line: about 7-8 ft below ground.






Trench which brings water line to greenhouse site. The line crossing the trench is the power line to the house.






Site being leveled. Notice that the site is being dug into a slight hillside, hopefully providing additional insulation from winter cold.










The leveled site. The extra dirt will be placed up against the lower part of the walls. Note the water line coming out of the ground in the second picture.


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## Bob in Albany N.Y. (May 5, 2010)

Congratulations Ross! As we both know one can never build one big enough as we can and will always fill them. Don't kid yourself, that's a pretty large one for a hobbyist like ourselves. Wish mine was that big. Please keep us posted, I'd love to see the progress as it moves along.


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## carrilloenglish (May 5, 2010)

Wow, I thought the size of your greenhouse is huge for a hobbist.... its all in the eye of the beholder. I would kill someone for a greenhouse that size (well maybe I would, lol).

Christian


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## ohio-guy (May 5, 2010)

I see a pond `in one photo....and the thought crossed my mind that some of the geo thermal systems use ponds as a heat source, if they are deep enough....it may not be cost effective, but then again , maybe it would....did you consider it as a basic heat source?


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## Rick (May 5, 2010)

Awesome Ross!!:drool::drool:

This is about 5X the size of the one I'm building now.


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## Lanmark (May 5, 2010)

Very nice! Very large indeed! Lucky you!  Way to go!


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## Ernie (May 5, 2010)

Awesome, Ross! 

-Ernie


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## SlipperFan (May 5, 2010)

Size sounds great -- I'll be lucky if I can get 16 x 22'.


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## smartie2000 (May 5, 2010)

that is not small  Awesome!!!


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## paphreek (May 5, 2010)

ohio-guy said:


> I see a pond `in one photo....and the thought crossed my mind that some of the geo thermal systems use ponds as a heat source, if they are deep enough....it may not be cost effective, but then again , maybe it would....did you consider it as a basic heat source?



I had considered geothermal, but couldn't afford it, yet. The heating set up I am putting in, though, will be able to be linked into geothermal in the future. It will probably be a closed system, though, instead of an open ended water system.


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## paphreek (May 5, 2010)

carrilloenglish said:


> Wow, I thought the size of your greenhouse is huge for a hobbist.... its all in the eye of the beholder. I would kill someone for a greenhouse that size (well maybe I would, lol).
> 
> Christian



The problem is I'm a hobbiest who just sent his 100th seed pod to the flasker. I'll try to take pictures to give you an idea of the number of plants I currently have.


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## paphreek (May 6, 2010)

*Photos Day 2*

I was working all day, but my son took the first picture for me, and I took the second two after getting home.

Putting insulation on floor prior to installing in floor heating pipes, and putting insulation along the perimeter into the ground to prevent frost penetration.





Covering the heating tubes with a layer of sand. Note the tubes coming out of the corner.


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## JeanLux (May 6, 2010)

looks like this is going to be a super greenhouse Ross (also from the size IMO)!!!! Do you have ground heating then? hsve there been put tubes for elctricity in the ground too? Jean


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## KyushuCalanthe (May 6, 2010)

Wow, looking great so far!


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## paphreek (May 6, 2010)

JeanLux said:


> looks like this is going to be a super greenhouse Ross (also from the size IMO)!!!! Do you have ground heating then? hsve there been put tubes for elctricity in the ground too? Jean



Yes, the main heat will be in floor hot water heat using an high efficiency electric boiler which will be on the electric company's dual fuel plan. The back up heat will be a Modine propane heater. The fan on the Modine as well as the exhaust fan will be linked to an electric generator in case of power outages. 

The tubes are for the hot water. With the in floor heating already set, it won't be too difficult to retrofit a geothermal heat exchanger once they are more affordable.


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## Yoyo_Jo (May 6, 2010)

Congrats Ross! :clap: You are the envy of us all. It will be great to follow along from construction to filling...


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## Clark (May 6, 2010)

Hello Ross.
How many inspections from start to finish for this project?
Electric- I know Jean asked already, but I'm not clear, is the electric service to be buried, or overhead?
No concrete footings? Do walls float on crushed stone?
Sorry for flurry of Qs, but this is more comfortable topic than flowers, for me.


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## Heather (May 6, 2010)

Very cool, excited to continue viewing the progress!


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## Ray (May 6, 2010)

One word: FANTASTIC!


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## goldenrose (May 6, 2010)

:drool::clap: How exciting!!! Looks like things are moving right along!


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## paphreek (May 6, 2010)

Clark said:


> Hello Ross.
> How many inspections from start to finish for this project?


One to get the building permit. Being in the country, the only requirements that I was aware of was to observe 100 foot set back from wetlands, and we needed to get the houses septic system inspected and approved. the site was approved and the septic system passed, so we got our building permit.



Clark said:


> Electric- I know Jean asked already, but I'm not clear, is the electric service to be buried, or overhead?


Service to the building will be underground. Wiring in the greenhouse will be overhead in sealed conduit. As I said before, the tubing shown is to convey the hot water heat throughout the floor.



Clark said:


> No concrete footings? Do walls float on crushed stone?


The walls are placed on the pea gravel between the forms and then anchored down with 40 inch stakes. 



Clark said:


> Sorry for flurry of Qs, but this is more comfortable topic than flowers, for me.



No problem! I'll answer things the best I can without pestering Kenny too much. oke:


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## NYEric (May 6, 2010)

paphreek said:


> Just thought I'd post a few pictures of our *small* greenhouse as it's built. I would have liked a larger one, but space and heating costs tempered the size. The measurements will be *24ft x 32ft*.


Bahhahhahahhahahhaaahahhaaaah! 
:rollhappy: 
Oh you crack me up!! 
BTW, that looks fantastic, I hope to one day visit your enterprise. Wow, now you have to think about shade cloth and extra lighting... Thanx for sharing and keep us posted.


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## Candace (May 6, 2010)

Looks great. My new, 2nd g.h is still awaiting electrical and has been a temp. chicken coop for 2 months:<

Any guestimate what your heating bill will be in the winter?


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## NYEric (May 6, 2010)

Candace said:


> Any guestimate what your heating bill will be in the winter?



Come on, California weather!


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## paphreek (May 6, 2010)

Candace said:


> Looks great. My new, 2nd g.h is still awaiting electrical and has been a temp. chicken coop for 2 months:<
> 
> Any guestimate what your heating bill will be in the winter?



No idea other than not good, especially when we get those three week bouts of -20F weather. That's why all the extra is being spent on insulation. I hope to show more of our heat saving measures as construction continues.


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## fibre (May 6, 2010)

Woow! I wished I could get such a _*small*_ greenhouse too! Congrats!


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## SlipperFan (May 6, 2010)

paphreek said:


> I
> Covering the heating tubes with a layer of sand. Note the tubes coming out of the corner.



We were told that the heating tubes must be in cement. Otherwise, they will move about and crack/break. So now we have to decide whether to use in-floor heating, or a sand/pea stone floor and different heating. 

Different state? or manufacturer?


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## paphreek (May 6, 2010)

SlipperFan said:


> We were told that the heating tubes must be in cement. Otherwise, they will move about and crack/break. So now we have to decide whether to use in-floor heating, or a sand/pea stone floor and different heating.
> 
> Different state? or manufacturer?



I really don't know. I believe the contractor installing the heating had done the same type of set up in another greenhouse in the area several years ago. I can double check with the owner to see if there have been problems.


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## Linh (May 6, 2010)

I'm so happy for you and Julie, Ross. I can't wait to go out there and check it out when it's all finished.


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## paphreek (May 6, 2010)

Thanks, Tracy. You're welcome to visit anytime.


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## Mrs. Paph (May 6, 2010)

Awesome..................................  Someday I hope to have one that large! And my own flasking lab too of course while I'm looking so far ahead and spending money I don't have yet!


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## SlipperFan (May 6, 2010)

paphreek said:


> I really don't know. I believe the contractor installing the heating had done the same type of set up in another greenhouse in the area several years ago. I can double check with the owner to see if there have been problems.



It would be interesting to know, Ross. Until we heard about the cement thing very recently, we'd been planning on setting the pipes in sand and then put pavers over the top.


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## paphioland (May 6, 2010)

congrats. I am just afraid you will fill that in no time and want bigger. Good luck


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## paphreek (May 6, 2010)

paphioland said:


> congrats. I am just afraid you will fill that in no time and want bigger. Good luck



Unfortunately, you are right Ken!


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## paphreek (May 6, 2010)

*Today's progress*

Landscape cloth over sand






Pea gravel on top of that


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## SlipperKing (May 6, 2010)

Nice foundation Ross. It looks like a lot of money has been spent in a good way already!


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## eOrchids (May 7, 2010)

Very nice!

Can't wait to see the final product.


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## John Boy (May 7, 2010)

You got to love these pictures. I guess, what we will find is:
Once it's built and ready, all plants in, and the shade-cloth down, it will look half the size as it does now. Which is okay, once the frist one is built, the second one can always follow...;0))


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## paphreek (May 7, 2010)

John Boy said:


> You got to love these pictures. I guess, what we will find is:
> Once it's built and ready, all plants in, and the shade-cloth down, it will look half the size as it does now. Which is okay, once the frist one is built, the second one can always follow...;0))



Because of the way things are situated, we couldn't have gone much bigger in this location. Upon looking at it, me might have been able to get another 4 feet in length and I would have made the request except that the trusses were special ordered.


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## paphreek (May 7, 2010)

*Why I Need a Greenhouse*

Some have been envious of the size of the greenhouse, while others (myself included) wish it could be larger. Just for reference, here are the 12 growing spots in the house. I estimate that I will fill at least one and one half of the three 6' x 24' benches with what's in the house. Here's the upstairs plants.


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## paphreek (May 7, 2010)

Here's the basement.


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## swamprad (May 7, 2010)

Wow, I had no idea you had so many plants growing inside!! I, too, am envious of the size of your greenhouse. I moved into my 18 x 24 greenhouse last Fall and yes, it is full to the brim. One of the best things is being able to water the heck out of everything and not have to worry about where the runoff is going to go!


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## paphreek (May 7, 2010)

swamprad said:


> One of the best things is being able to water the heck out of everything and not have to worry about where the runoff is going to go!



Amen!


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## John Boy (May 7, 2010)

Just in case you should *need confirmation Ross:*

*You seriously need a greenhouse mate!*

:0))


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## Scooby5757 (May 7, 2010)

swamprad said:


> One of the best things is being able to water the heck out of everything and not have to worry about where the runoff is going to go!



DOUBLE Amen!


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## Candace (May 7, 2010)

I bet your wife will be so happy to have her rooms back:> What will you do with all the free space?


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## Mrs. Paph (May 7, 2010)

WHOAH! Yeah, you won't have any trouble filling that greenhouse quickly....I think my husband would build a greenhouse and banish the plants And Me out there pretty quickly if I tried to set up anything like that in the house! And I'm not jealous of your winter, since I grew up in SD, but I'm jealous of a summer cool enough that you can run all those lights indoors and not overheat things! Judging by seedlings I've gotten from you though, you've been growing the heck out of your plants indoors, so you've definitely earned a GH! Looking forward to seeing the progress in pictures.


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## Ernie (May 7, 2010)

Candace said:


> I bet your wife will be so happy to have her rooms back:> What will you do with all the free space?



Fill them back up with plants. :rollhappy:


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## John Boy (May 7, 2010)

it's quite logical, when you think about it...


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## KyushuCalanthe (May 7, 2010)

HOLY COW! That's a busy basement!


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## Candace (May 7, 2010)

Ernie said:


> Fill them back up with plants. :rollhappy:



I was thinking the same thing;>


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## paphioland (May 7, 2010)

Ernie said:


> Fill them back up with plants. :rollhappy:



I'm betting right now this happens. Kidding aside. Seedlings will be grown inside


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## Bob in Albany N.Y. (May 7, 2010)

Ross

When we built our green house, the main heat runs off of the oil furnace for the house. As a back up we put in a Suthern Burner heater that didn't require electricity to run. It's one of those that runs off of propane tanks or natural gas that has a pilot burning all the time. That was put in in case we lose the operation of our in house heater. We also purchased a portable back up generator. In the end we ended up getting rid of the portable generator and got one of those back up Guardian generators that come on 5 seconds after you lose your electric power. You know, the ones that run off natural gas or propane. Let me tell you, that is the only way to go. Maybe you can't do it now (just as we couldn't) but do it as soon as you can. Last year we had an ice storm and lost house power for over a day in the dead of winter. It was very conforting to know that we had heat both in the house and greenhouse. It even ran most of the light, the electric stove, well pump. About the only things we didn't have hooked to it was the air conditioning and cloths dryer. It's a must to have for peace of mind and to save both your sanity and your plants. You'll be glad you did.


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## SlipperFan (May 7, 2010)

I'm going to have to show your photos, Ross, to my husband. He thinks I'm bad...


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## paphreek (May 7, 2010)

Ernie said:


> Fill them back up with plants. :rollhappy:



:rollhappy::rollhappy::rollhappy: It's great to hear you guys are as crazy as I am. 

Seriously, though while I can't predict exactly how much, I anticipate a substantial reduction in our electric light bill. It won't cover the heating expenses, but hopefully it will help.


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## paphreek (May 7, 2010)

paphioland said:


> I'm betting right now this happens. Kidding aside. Seedlings will be grown inside



I'm currently in negotiations to keep one light cart for newly deflasked seedlings. Unfortunately, the growing area humidity will be much lower when all the other plants are in the greenhouse, so there might not be an advantage to grow them indoors, anymore.


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## paphreek (May 7, 2010)

Bob in Albany said:


> Ross
> 
> When we built our green house, the main heat runs off of the oil furnace for the house. As a back up we put in a Suthern Burner heater that didn't require electricity to run. It's one of those that runs off of propane tanks or natural gas that has a pilot burning all the time. That was put in in case we lose the operation of our in house heater. We also purchased a portable back up generator. In the end we ended up getting rid of the portable generator and got one of those back up Guardian generators that come on 5 seconds after you lose your electric power. You know, the ones that run off natural gas or propane. Let me tell you, that is the only way to go. Maybe you can't do it now (just as we couldn't) but do it as soon as you can. Last year we had an ice storm and lost house power for over a day in the dead of winter. It was very conforting to know that we had heat both in the house and greenhouse. It even ran most of the light, the electric stove, well pump. About the only things we didn't have hooked to it was the air conditioning and cloths dryer. It's a must to have for peace of mind and to save both your sanity and your plants. You'll be glad you did.



I was looking at one of those generators, too, but could not afford it, now.
I will have a redundant heating system, hooked into a generator, which will also run the exhaust fan in the summer, should we have a power outage, then. I will go into more detail as these items get installed.


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## likespaphs (May 8, 2010)

sorry if i didn't see this mentioned previously, but are you going to put in a temperature alarm too?


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## paphreek (May 8, 2010)

likespaphs said:


> sorry if i didn't see this mentioned previously, but are you going to put in a temperature alarm too?



Absolutely! I haven't mentioned it as it hasn't occurred, yet. I'm kind of doing a "play by play" "as it happens" type of reporting, but keep the questions and comments coming.


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## paphreek (May 8, 2010)

SlipperFan said:


> I'm going to have to show your photos, Ross, to my husband. He thinks I'm bad...



Dot, I have the opposite problem. My wife, Julie, shares my passion for plants, and doesn't limit herself to orchids. She's already lobbying for her space in the greenhouse.


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## paphreek (May 8, 2010)

*Friday's Work Halted by Rain and White Stuff*

Friday was a rain shortened work day. 

Sill plate installed from previous day.






Starting walls in the rain





White Stuff


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## Ernie (May 8, 2010)

For Pete's sake! It's freakin' May! Snow! Really!!! You Minneapolins are CRAZY. 

-Ernie


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## Kavanaru (May 8, 2010)

Holly... I need to show this thread to my partner... I already got complains that the GH I am planing is way to big (16.5"x13.5")...

That looks like a great house, and thanks a lot for showing the foundation... looking forward to seeing the final result! Congrats!


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## paphreek (May 8, 2010)

Ernie said:


> For Pete's sake! It's freakin' May! Snow! Really!!! You Minneapolins are CRAZY.
> 
> -Ernie



Yeah, the forecast for today is clearing and 50F. and tonight, with clear skies, the temp will drop to 26F. If that happens for any length of time, we could lose leaves on the trees.


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## paphreek (May 8, 2010)

Kavanaru said:


> Holly... I need to show this thread to my partner... I already got complains that the GH I am planing is way to big (16.5"x13.5")...
> 
> That looks like a great house, and thanks a lot for showing the foundation... looking forward to seeing the final result! Congrats!



If space allows, try to add an extra meter or two!:evil:


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## SlipperFan (May 8, 2010)

paphreek said:


> Yeah, the forecast for today is clearing and 50F. and tonight, with clear skies, the temp will drop to 26F. If that happens for any length of time, we could lose leaves on the trees.



Oh, that's terrible! They are saying 31º*F here tonight (Michigan). No snow, but lots of rain and very strong, cold winds.


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## goldenrose (May 8, 2010)

paphreek said:


> :rollhappy::rollhappy::rollhappy: It's great to hear you guys are as crazy as I am..


 I'm falling to peer pressure. My husband, the DIY & welder, says it wouldn't cost that much to expand mine. It's 15 years old, so the polycarbonate probably should be replaced sooner rather than later!



paphreek said:


> Yeah, the forecast for today is clearing and 50F. and tonight, with clear skies, the temp will drop to 26F. If that happens for any length of time, we could lose leaves on the trees.


Tonight 30-36 :sob:. Most of next week nightime lows in the low 40's. Back to the real world when living in the midwest!


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## Yoyo_Jo (May 8, 2010)

Oh yay! - we're not the only place on earth with snow in May. :clap:

Your greenhouse is coming along great Ross!


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## Rick (May 8, 2010)

Ross

Be careful with all those extension chords in the rain.:wink:

Or is that all pneumatic hose?


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## paphreek (May 9, 2010)

I'm not doing the work, but I believe the blue thing is a pneumatic hose.


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## biothanasis (May 9, 2010)

Very nice!!! The second pic is like showing us a playground!!! This gh is going to be huge!!! WOW


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## Kavanaru (May 9, 2010)

paphreek said:


> If space allows, try to add an extra meter or two!:evil:



:evil: believe me, I am trying to use the maximum of space I can... :evil:


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## likespaphs (May 9, 2010)

goldenrose said:


> ...Tonight 30-36 :sob:. Most of next week nightime lows in the low 40's. Back to the real world when living in the midwest!




we're getting similar temps out here in new england too
i'm not terribly happy about it but apparently, "mother nature" doesn't care....


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## paphreek (May 10, 2010)

*Back at it Today*

Basic frame





Frame with lower wall started


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## NYEric (May 10, 2010)

Good progress, You can tell it's not a government project!


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## KyushuCalanthe (May 10, 2010)

NYEric said:


> Good progress, You can tell it's not a government project!



Heh, heh, heh...if you can believe it, it is worse here in Japan. Nobody is leaning on a shovel, but things progress amazingly slowly.

Man Ross, you are just trying to make us all jealous! A playground indeed. Enjoy...


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## SlipperFan (May 10, 2010)

It's going up very quickly -- bet you can hardly wait...


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## paphreek (May 10, 2010)

KyushuCalanthe said:


> Man Ross, you are just trying to make us all jealous! A playground indeed. Enjoy...



It may be my playground, but right now, our little cat, Trouble, thinks it's HIS HUGE LITTER BOX! :evil: We have to escort him when he goes out to make sure he doesn't use it, again.


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## etex (May 11, 2010)

Amazing progress made already! It is so great that you are walking us through the process of building your greenhouse! Looks like it will be fabulous! OK, a little jealous. 
Can't wait to see more!


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## paphreek (May 12, 2010)

Working on the lower wall around Tuesday noon just before I left for work. The weather: Rain with temps in the lower 40'sF.(6C).





What I saw tonight upon returning from work around 6 PM.





Interior view


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## NYEric (May 13, 2010)

Almost done.


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## SlipperKing (May 13, 2010)

Time to start the benches!


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## paphreek (May 13, 2010)

SlipperKing said:


> Time to start the benches!



They're on order. I have three 6' x 24' rolling benches which should arrive within the next week, if they are on schedule.


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## etex (May 13, 2010)

WOW- That's some solid construction! Your greenhouse will be great!
What are rolling benches?


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## JeanLux (May 13, 2010)

paphreek said:


> They're on order. I have *three 6' x 24' rolling benches* which should arrive within the next week, if they are on schedule.



:drool: omg this is of course optimal :drool: !!!! Jean


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## paphreek (May 13, 2010)

etex said:


> WOW- That's some solid construction! Your greenhouse will be great!
> What are rolling benches?



The polycarbonate is available in 4ft wide and 6ft wide sheets, but the 6 ft. width had to be special ordered and was more expensive per square foot. For this reason, the trusses were set on two foot intervals to support the 4 foot wide polycarbonate. 

Rolling benches have tops that roll sideways across the support frame. The advantage of these benches is that they maximize your bench space by requiring only one walkway between benches that shifts as you roll the bench.
Here's a link of a pcture: http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/ShowAdditionalImg.asp?number=BN-WBR#


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## NYEric (May 13, 2010)

Those work great, especially when you want to trap the wife in one section! :evil:


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## paphreek (May 13, 2010)

NYEric said:


> Those work great, especially when you want to trap the wife in one section! :evil:



Don't think that'll work for me. Julie's has a black belt in Tae Kwon Doe.


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## NYEric (May 13, 2010)

Oh, in that case, they're great for blocking while running away from irate wives!


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## Candace (May 13, 2010)

I love rolling benches.


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## paphreek (May 13, 2010)

NYEric said:


> Oh, in that case, they're great for blocking while running away from irate wives!



I hoping the greenhouse will replace the "dog house" for me. I can set up a cot in the corner and.............


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## paphreek (May 13, 2010)

Candace said:


> I love rolling benches.



They do seem to increase the bench space tremendously compared to fixed benches. Knowing I was limited in area, I chose to spend the extra money on rolling benches. These have wire tops as opposed to rolled metal, which makes them about $900 less.


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## KyushuCalanthe (May 13, 2010)

Bloody awesome, the whole deal; rolling benches...looks like the perfect dog house to me. Maybe you can get a cot and a little fridge for it just in case. :rollhappy:


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## likespaphs (May 14, 2010)

lookin' groovy!
just remember to keep the weight on the benches balanced....


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## paphreek (May 14, 2010)

Project will be on hold for a few days while we wait for the polycarbonate to be delivered.


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## etex (May 14, 2010)

Thanks for the info and pic of rolling benches! What a great idea to get more space!


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## Mrs. Paph (May 14, 2010)

Rolling benches really are great! I bet you were like a kid in a candy store designing this greenhouse! But at some point you remember you're an adult and you're paying for it, but still fun!


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## NYEric (May 14, 2010)

Put a couple of cots, a grill, and a TV and we could both stay there!


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## paphreek (May 14, 2010)

NYEric said:


> Put a couple of cots, a grill, and a TV and we could both stay there!



:rollhappy::rollhappy::rollhappy:


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## KyushuCalanthe (May 15, 2010)

paphreek said:


> :rollhappy::rollhappy::rollhappy:



Hey, you have to invite me too, it was my idea! (can I grow Cyps outside though?)


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## paphreek (May 15, 2010)

KyushuCalanthe said:


> Hey, you have to invite me too, it was my idea! (can I grow Cyps outside though?)



There's plenty of room for your Cyps. We have parviflorum growing wild on the property and a couple of clumps of reginae started down by the pond. Unfortunately, space will be tight in the greenhouse. There may be room for your other orchids, but you'll have to sleep in the camper.oke:


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## paphreek (May 15, 2010)

NYEric said:


> Put a couple of cots, a grill, and a TV and we could both stay there!



I'll reserve a bench for besseae and its hybrids.oke:


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## NYEric (May 15, 2010)

It's a deal!


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## TADD (May 16, 2010)

Damn Ross good luck with the move. It will have to be way easier to water in the GH...


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## KyushuCalanthe (May 16, 2010)

paphreek said:


> There's plenty of room for your Cyps. We have parviflorum growing wild on the property and a couple of clumps of reginae started down by the pond. Unfortunately, space will be tight in the greenhouse. There may be room for your other orchids, but you'll have to sleep in the camper.oke:



I can deal with that, it's just your winters that would have me crying uncle in about 5 minutes!


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## paphreek (May 18, 2010)

The polycabonate is scheduled to be delivered on Thursday!


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