# Timing of "Pollinia Harvest"



## Ray (Oct 4, 2011)

My understanding is that it is best to pollinate a paph within about a week of it opening up, which jives pretty well with what I was told a long time ago - about 3 days after opening fully.

However, I have not heard much about the freshness of the pollinia. What is the best time to acquire pollinia, either for immediate use or to save for future efforts?

Also, how to those timings hold for phrags?


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## Rick (Oct 4, 2011)

Given that pollen can hold up for months under refrigeration I don't think it matters to much when you pull it out of the flower Ray.

I think you could pull it out of unopen flowers and flowers that are in the process of wilting. 

If they are black from mold probably too late.


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## likespaphs (Oct 4, 2011)

years ago i volunteered at a local joint and the dude picked up a faded flower from the floor, pulled out the pollen and put it onto something. 
i was surprised and said something like "you can do that?" he said, "i can do anything i want" (anyone know who it was?)
don't know if it took or not though


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## Marc (Oct 5, 2011)

Interesting question, there are multiple topics about the subject of storing pollen. However people mention were they store it ( fridge , freezer , crisper etc. )

I would like to know what temperature would be the best. So I can determine for myself which of my appliances will be most suitable for the purpose.

Further I've often seen those very small plastic storage containers with a flip top lid attached to it. They have a certain name which I can't recall can anyone help?


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## Roth (Oct 5, 2011)

About pollen storage... Years ago Terry Root used to say that stored pollen did not give seedlings as good as doing the cross between to blooming plants. Paphanatics used to store their pollen, and they were very close to him however. Most breeders store their pollen.

However, I had the experience a couple of times with one year old pollen vs. fresh pollen of the same plant, and the seedlings indeed were different in the lab. In one case ( stored delenatii pollen), the seedlings were half the size of the ones made with the fresh pollen of the same plant. In nearly all others cases, I was not so happy with the quantity of germinating seeds or the seedling vigor.

If you want to store pollen of paphs, the best is to store them in transparent gelatine caps, keep only the gooey part, remove the hard part. It can stay like that for months or years. The gelatine caps is neither too dry nor too wet, and the pollen is still sticky after a couple of years. Fridge is fine, though I know people who froze it with success.

As to when to harvest the pollen, I watch it to become sticky and yellow color on the flower. Then it is ready to use. Some species can open up their flowers with immature pollen (like sangii, sometimes esquirolei...).

For parvis, I would say a week after opening, the pollen should be granular, but still soft, like a crymbly paste.


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## Ray (Oct 5, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback.

Does the same hold true for phrags?


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## Rick (Oct 5, 2011)

I also like to store in those gelatine capsules.

Phrag pollen always seems to be dry/hard to me. The long-petalled multi's maybe a bit softer/stickier. Often hard to get to stick to stigmas without water (or maybe honey). This seems to be the case for me regardless of the age of the flower when it comes out.

I haven't done many phrag pollinations in a while, but when I was doing a fair amount, the air humidity seemed to be a bigger indicator of pollination success than time of pollen transfer (the higher the better). However, Phrag flowers in general don't hold up as long as Paph flowers, so overall window of opportunity is much reduced.


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## Rick (Oct 5, 2011)

Roth said:


> like a crymbly paste.



My one time playing with a Cyp (acule) the pollen was like this right off the flower.

It was so crumbly I don't know how a bee would have aquired and carried it off.


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## Marc (Oct 5, 2011)

Marc said:


> Further I've often seen those very small plastic storage containers with a flip top lid attached to it. They have a certain name which I can't recall can anyone help?



The small plastic flasks I was referring to are called Eppendorfer bottles.


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## Rick (Oct 5, 2011)

Marc said:


> The small plastic flasks I was referring to are called Eppendorfer bottles.



I recently got some pollen in one of those (I beleive from Leo). I like these too.


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## Ray (Oct 5, 2011)

Rick said:


> <much edited out> However, Phrag flowers in general don't hold up as long as Paph flowers, so overall window of opportunity is much reduced.


A good point. Thinking for a few moments before posting that question might have prevented same.


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## Ray (Oct 12, 2011)

Got another question for the "pro's":

It's been a VERY long time since I have attempted breeding paphs. What's a typical response time (collapsed blossom, viscidium swelling, etc.) after swapping pollen?


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## Rick (Oct 12, 2011)

Ray said:


> Got another question for the "pro's":
> 
> It's been a VERY long time since I have attempted breeding paphs. What's a typical response time (collapsed blossom, viscidium swelling, etc.) after swapping pollen?



This varies a lot per species.

For some reason all the henryanums I've pollinated dropped the bloom in about 2-3 days. Hirsutisimum/esquirolii held up for over a month after pollinating.

Typically, until the bloom drops off, I see little evidence of succesful pollination. But if the ovary is still green (or purple depending on species) a few days after the flower drops, then its a good sign. Noticable swelling may take another couple of weeks (even for the multis, which may mature a pod in just a few months). 

Within these two extremes, I think my average would be 7-14 days for flower drop.

I don't do hybrids, so can't help you there.


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## Ray (Oct 13, 2011)

Thanks, Rick.

With some of the other crosses I've made - cattleya-types and phals, the response was pretty quick.

Tried a paph cross a long time ago, and I don't recall the progression rate, but I harvested the capsule about a year after pollination. The seed took 6 months to germinate, and all of the growth was deformed, so out they went.


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## emydura (Oct 13, 2011)

I selfed my dianthum on the 21st August. I noticed after a few days that the petal stance had slipped a bit. They weren't quite as erect as the other flowers. But from then on the flowers remained strong and are only now wilting (nearly 2 months later). The pods are real fat. It wasn't until I could see the pods were getting larger that I was confident I had successfully pollinated it.

David


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## Rick (Oct 13, 2011)

emydura said:


> I selfed my dianthum on the 21st August. I noticed after a few days that the petal stance had slipped a bit. They weren't quite as erect as the other flowers. But from then on the flowers remained strong and are only now wilting (nearly 2 months later). The pods are real fat. It wasn't until I could see the pods were getting larger that I was confident I had successfully pollinated it.
> 
> David



Wow that one is really different.


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## Fawkes (Oct 23, 2011)

African violet propagators quip "an old man on a young girl". I don't know if it has any relevance for slipper orchids. 

I too store pollen. I have a few varieties that I have frozen. I took some from the frozen storage the other day to make a cross. I cannot tell that it took.


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