# any good brood stock here?



## TyroneGenade (Feb 17, 2009)

Hi all,

I need some opinions. The following plants are available to me, though not cheaply. These are:

Paph. tonsum
Paph. Delrosi
Paph. hirsutissimum
Paph. Hsinying Leopard
Paph. St. Alban

I'm interested in trying my hand at some breeding. Which of the above have proved to be useful for breeding? What qualities do they empart on hybrids?

The St. Alban has been about since 1906 so I assume, if it was any good, it has been used extensively in breeding. Has it proved to be a good parent? What of Delrosi and hirsutissimum? 

Thanks


----------



## Ernie (Feb 17, 2009)

Tyrone,

In Paphs, your best bet is to use quality parents to make a cross. My recommendation is not just to make a cross because something is in bloom. Also, the price you pay for a plant does not always mean it has good to high flower qaulity! There are excellent clones of the plants you list, but there are even more average and crappy clones of the same. Choose carefully to get the best from whatever cross you make. All of these have been used in breeding, except possibly Delrosi. I have not seen any next generation hybrids with Delrosi. I could be wrong. 

I have not been terribly impressed with tonsum hybrids, although it goes nicely with white Brachys and delenatii. Hirsutissimum gives a strong stem and rich petal color, but has a 'cross' (+) shape that is not terribly "full"- i genreally like hirsutissimum crosses personally. Hsinying Leopard is a Maudiae type hybrid (sec Barbata) and will breed similar to that trend, some of these can be coloratum, some vinicolor, haven't seen albums from this grex (?). Do you mean the cross St. Alban or the "St. Albans' clone of spicerianum? 

-Ernie


----------



## JeanLux (Feb 17, 2009)

Ernie said:


> ...... Do you mean the cross St. Alban or the "St. Albans' clone of spicerianum?
> 
> -Ernie



Me too, I am very interested to get to know the cross St. Alban ,because I got a plant last year, labelled 'St. Alban' not looking at all spicerianum-like!!! Jean


----------



## British Bulldog (Feb 17, 2009)

Just a quickie!!!
Paph St Albans is a red Binglyense hybrid.
I am sending this in a hurry and cannot remember is parents.
I think one is something like Antoinge(spelling??)
Look at the hybrid list!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I shall be surprised if the original spicerianum "St Albans" is still around.........we selfed it 20years ago. That is where all the good ones in Japan came from!!!!!
Paul


----------



## Leo Schordje (Feb 17, 2009)

The plant in question is Saint Alban, (Antigone x Harrisianum) =
(lawrenceanum x niveum) x (barbatum x villosum)

If you can get it to breed, Saint Alban has some interesting genetics, but the RHS website suggests it was a dud as a breeding plant. Only 2 crosses have been registered using St Alban, one is a backcross to the parent Harrisianum. For a cross registered in 1905 this does not bode well for future crosses. In order to plan your breeding collection, you really need to spend time with the RHS website researching what crosses were successful. Which ones went on, and which ones seem to be dead ends. Remaking primary hybrids using species is a good way to cut your teeth, most of the primaries will give progeny and the offspring will teach you the importance of choosing the best parents possible.


----------



## JeanLux (Feb 17, 2009)

British Bulldog said:


> Just a quickie!!!
> Paph St Albans is a red Binglyense hybrid.
> I am sending this in a hurry and cannot remember is parents.
> I think one is something like Antoinge(spelling??)
> ...



I found Saint Alban on the RHS site!

= Antigone ( = lawrenceanum X niveum) X Harrisianum ( = barbatum X villosum) 
Jean


----------



## JeanLux (Feb 17, 2009)

sorry Leo, you were quicker!! Jean


----------



## NYEric (Feb 17, 2009)

Terry root said he won't waste time remaking primaries. BTW I have a photo of Harrisianum form NCOS; I'll post later. 
Delrosi is a slow bloomer thanks to roth parent.


----------



## Roy (Feb 17, 2009)

British Bulldog said:


> I shall be surprised if the original spicerianum "St Albans" is still around.........we selfed it 20years ago. That is where all the good ones in Japan came from!!!!!
> Paul



Paul, looking at the Japanese spicerianums and the quality, I would venture to say that there has been some P. Bruno 'Model' mixed up in the progeny. ie, there spicerianums are not genuine.


----------



## SlipperFan (Feb 17, 2009)

Roy said:


> Paul, looking at the Japanese spicerianums and the quality, I would venture to say that there has been some P. Bruno 'Model' mixed up in the progeny. ie, there spicerianums are not genuine.



Thanks, Paul. I couldn't help but think that, also.


----------



## TyroneGenade (Feb 18, 2009)

Hi all,

Thanks for all the advice. Particularly, thanks to Leo, for the St. Albans information. I'm sure I can get a better (in form and reproductive potential) vini to experiment with than St. Albans.

Looking at hirsutissimum crosses, I don't generally like the shape but the colour does appeal to me. Does anyone one know whether, in second generation crosses, the genes for colour segregate independantly to those for the petal shape (don't like the wavy crinkled petals).

I see on RHS that Delrosi has been used 10x as a pod parent and 1x as a pollen parent.

Thanks for all the information. You have helped me a great deal in making up my mind.

Thanks!


----------



## Drorchid (Mar 3, 2009)

Here is a delrosi hybrid (delrosi x Lady Isabel):

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8461

Robert


----------

