# Natural Treatment for Bacterial Infection.



## gonewild (Dec 18, 2006)

I've been experimenting with treating bacterial leaf infections with a natural tree resin (sap) from Peru. So far I've treated 4 plants and each time the bacterial infection has stopped and the plant recovered. Fortunately, I don't have many infected plants to experiment with so my tests are limited.

If there is any interest in this subject I will be happy to answer any questions.

Here is a series of pictures of one small Phrag seedling that would have died quickly for sure.

The first picture was taken one day after I noticed a small soft spot on the otherwise healthy leaf near the base. The infection had progressed to this point in only one day. I applied one drop of resin and then took the photo later in the day. (The dried residue of the resin can be seen on the center vein of the leaf.)






12 days after treatment





17 days after treatment





21 days after treatment





34 days after treatment





43 days after treatment (today)





The seedling is alive and growing normal from the crown.


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## Ron-NY (Dec 18, 2006)

I'm impressed Lance...which tree?? Sangre de grado ???


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## gonewild (Dec 18, 2006)

Ron-NY said:


> I'm impressed Lance...which tree?? Sangre de grado ???



Yes. The Spanish name is Sangre de Grado which translates in English to Dragon's Blood. It is the sap of Croton lechleri, a small tree that grows in the open along rivers and other jungle clearings. 

It got is name from the Spanish conquistadors that invaded Peru during the time of the Incas. In their search for El Dorado and the fountain of youth the Spaniards pushed over the Andes down into the jungle and got into big trouble health wise. They were all suffering from internal and external infections and about to die when the local Indians took pity on them and showed them a "doctor tree". They used the blood red sap and regained enough health to wipe out the Indians and return to the mountains to conquer the Incas. Bad mistake on the Indians part! The resin is harvested by slicing the tree with a knife and letting the sap flow out. it looks just like blood. After using the blood of the tree and seeing the "magical" results with curing their infections the Spaniards proclaimed it to be Sangre de Grado, the blood of the mythical European dragon that was used by sorcerers to cure illness.
Thus, Dragon's Blood!

In case you can't guess, I'm impressed too! It only stands to reason that plant products can cure plant illness. Isn't it a wonderful world?


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## ScottMcC (Dec 19, 2006)

hmm...what's interesting is that a tree in the same genus is used to make another medicinal compound, croton oil (from Croton tiglium). It is one of the chief ingredients in chemical peels used by plastic surgeons as one of many facial rejuvenating procedures.


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## bwester (Dec 19, 2006)

I'll be impressed when there is a more scientific study done. Did you have a control group? How constant was the environment? Temperature? Humidity?


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## NYEric (Dec 19, 2006)

"No soup for you!"


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## gonewild (Dec 19, 2006)

bwester said:


> I'll be impressed when there is a more scientific study done.



Do you by any chance make your living proving things for pharmaceutical companies? oke: 

I did not offer this as a proven thing or even a scientific study, only as a possibility.



> Did you have a control group?


No, as I stated I've treated only a handful of plants. It is obvious from experience and the photos the seedling would have died without treatment. 
For this casual experiment I think we can assume severe bacterial infections generally kill small seedlings so in a way that knowledge is a control group.



> How constant was the environment?


The environment remained the same as the growing area. Light 1000fc 14 hours. The treated plants are no given any special treatment other than being slightly isolated from nearby plants, to prevent any spread of disease.



> Temperature?Humidity?


Temps low 60s at night, mid 70's daytime.
Humidity 65% daytime, 85% night.

Contrary to normal post treatment for bacterial infections the plants have been watered overhead and misted daily with no attempt to keep the foliage dry being made. In fact the crowns often hold water for a short time. The resin is water soluble so when the water hits the dried resin it actually will re-dissolve and possibly re-treat the plant tissues.


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## gonewild (Dec 19, 2006)

ScottMcC said:


> hmm...what's interesting is that a tree in the same genus is used to make another medicinal compound, croton oil (from Croton tiglium). It is one of the chief ingredients in chemical peels used by plastic surgeons as one of many facial rejuvenating procedures.



Yes, it is Croton lechleri. The genera is know to contain many compounds of medical interest. Pharmaceutical companies have proven the effectiveness of Croton lechleri for use in medicine but have failed to develop a product that can be patented that is more effective than the natural sap.

In any case I'm suggesting the pure natural product may be a useful tool to treat bacterial and fungal infections in plants. In fact Croton lechleri resin is effective with the control of viruses also. Wouldn't it be nice if it could eliminate a virus from an orchid plant?


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## Marco (Dec 19, 2006)

Cool. I'm gonna order some. Not to treat fungus on plants. But I wanna try it on a betta I have that has hazy eyes.


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## gonewild (Dec 19, 2006)

Marco said:


> Cool. I'm gonna order some. Not to treat fungus on plants. But I wanna try it on a betta I have that has hazy eyes.



Oh Boy, I'm gonna get into trouble!
For your betta you need Catappa leaf. It is also called tropical Almond or Indian Almond. Just put a piece of leaf in the water with the fish. The leaf is available over the internet from several sources including our own webstore, ShopGoneWild.
We use the leaf in our aquarium in Peru. I won't go into fish detail here but if you want to know more PM me.


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## Marco (Dec 19, 2006)

They're in indian almond leaf water now. I got some leaves from somewhere online. Well regardless i still want the dragon blood stuff anyway  you have a pm oke:


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## bwester (Dec 19, 2006)

gonewild said:


> Do you by any chance make your living proving things for pharmaceutical companies? oke:



I'm an analytical chemist with obsessive compulsive disorder... nature of the beast, sorry.


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## gonewild (Dec 19, 2006)

bwester said:


> I'm an analytical chemist with obsessive compulsive disorder... nature of the beast, sorry.



No need to be sorry. I respect your opinions. I analyze things as well, just from a different perspective and with different tools.


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## SlipperFan (Dec 19, 2006)

That is fascinating, Lance. At first I said, "Too bad you can't bottle and sell the sap. I'll be a lot of us who grow Slippers that are prone to rot would be interested in experimenting, also." -- but then I went to your website and saw that you do sell it. Hmmmm......


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## Rick (Dec 19, 2006)

That's pretty cool Lance.

I've used goldenseal root (a native species eastern US forrests) with some mixed results for bacterial infections on orchids. My wife is an herbalist, and when I asked her about dragons blood she said she's only seen it on the voodoo supply price lists, and is realy hard to get.

But I see it on the GoneWild price list. I'm goin to get me some too.


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## NYEric (Dec 20, 2006)

I'm going to get me some...


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## Park Bear (Dec 20, 2006)

I order some this morning...I've lost a few small seedlings lately that look a lot like your phots Lance.


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## gonewild (Dec 20, 2006)

SlipperFan said:


> That is fascinating, Lance. At first I said, "Too bad you can't bottle and sell the sap. I'll be a lot of us who grow Slippers that are prone to rot would be interested in experimenting, also." -- but then I went to your website and saw that you do sell it. Hmmmm......



Yes, we do sell Dragon's Blood at ShopGoneWild. It is bottled and sold as a dietary supplement along with our Healing Forest teas and other herbs from Peru. 

My purpose for posting this info about the use on bacterial infections on plants was not to promote sales of the product on this forum. But I do appreciate any and all purchases. As I said I have only used it on a limited number of infected plants and I am not representing that it will be 100% effective. What I am saying is that on the tests I have done it has been 100% effective. I believe it may turn out to be an important aid to slipper growers.

In all fairness I will tell you there are other suppliers of Dragon's Blood. You can google it and find many places to order from, search for the Spanish name Sangre de Grado as well. You may also find it in some local health stores.

The resin we sell is bottled by our own small company. It is PURE raw sap from Croton lechleri. We purchase it directly from the rural forest collectors in Peru. Most commercial suppliers sell Dragon's Blood that is made from the _extract_ of processed trees. Extracts are not the same as pure resin and are a result of a boiling process. Extracts may still be effective against plant infections but generally they are diluted with water and the heating process may have altered the structure of the resin. Some companies offer pure Dragon's Blood but add 10% alcohol. I would avoid the use of alcohol on infected plant tissue. Also the curanderos in Peru tell me Sangre de Grado should not be mixed with alcohol when used. 

I do encourage everyone to try it if they have rot problems. Dragon's Blood*may* turn out to be an effective alternative to toxic chemicals for bacterial infections on plants. Please post your experiences to the forum.


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## gonewild (Dec 20, 2006)

Rick said:


> That's pretty cool Lance.
> 
> I've used goldenseal root (a native species eastern US forrests) with some mixed results for bacterial infections on orchids. My wife is an herbalist, and when I asked her about dragons blood she said she's only seen it on the voodoo supply price lists, and is realy hard to get.
> 
> But I see it on the GoneWild price list. I'm goin to get me some too.



There are a few European herbs which are also called Dragons Blood. These are what your wife probably is seeing in the voodoo lists. I'm not familiar with those plants.

Tell your wife it is also called Sangre de Grado. She should find info about it, it is extremely effective for many human uses.

Interesting about your use of Goldenseal. There are multitudes of native North American plants which would be effective health aids. Too bad most of the knowledge was destroyed in the settlement of our country. The world believes we need to save the rainforests because the plant species hold so many cures for human afflictions. What we need to save are the forest people that know the plant species and how to use them. There are still a lot of plants left in the rainforest, but only a handful of people who know which ones are doctor plants.


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## ericapayne (Dec 20, 2006)

I just bought this. I lost a sanderianum seedling to rot last year, this sure would have came in handy.
Erica


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## Rick (Dec 20, 2006)

gonewild said:


> Interesting about your use of Goldenseal. There are multitudes of native North American plants which would be effective health aids. Too bad most of the knowledge was destroyed in the settlement of our country. The world believes we need to save the rainforests because the plant species hold so many cures for human afflictions. What we need to save are the forest people that know the plant species and how to use them. There are still a lot of plants left in the rainforest, but only a handful of people who know which ones are doctor plants.



Many of the interactions between European settlers and North American Natives were not as bad as the ones in SA. So there is more information passed on on NA medicine plants. However there are allot less intact forests than there used to be (excluding the tree farms) so many of the medicinal herbs are rare enough to be on the CITES list, and are on various endangered/threatened state lists. This includes goldenseal, but there are a few comercial growers. (and a small stand of it in my backyard)

Actually there was a recent publication of an herbal PDR (Physicians Desktop Reference) that covers medicinal plants from all over.


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## SlipperFan (Dec 20, 2006)

ericapayne said:


> I just bought this. I lost a sanderianum seedling to rot last year, this sure would have came in handy.
> Erica


A new person... Welcome, Erica!


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## Heather (Dec 20, 2006)

Hi Erica! Nice to have you here!!!


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## gonewild (Dec 20, 2006)

ericapayne said:


> I just bought this. I lost a sanderianum seedling to rot last year, this sure would have came in handy.
> Erica



Welcome to the forum Erica, you'll like it here and thanks for your order it is in the mail.


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## gonewild (Dec 20, 2006)

In case anyone is wondering here is what the sap of Croton lechleri, Dragon's Blood or Sangre de Grado looks like being applied to a Paph.


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## Heather (Dec 20, 2006)

Then what? Do you spread it around? Etc? 
That Paph. looks fine. Is this just an example of application or... I'm confused. sorry!


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## gonewild (Dec 20, 2006)

Rick said:


> Many of the interactions between European settlers and North American Natives were not as bad as the ones in SA. So there is more information passed on on NA medicine plants. However there are allot less intact forests than there used to be (excluding the tree farms) so many of the medicinal herbs are rare enough to be on the CITES list, and are on various endangered/threatened state lists. This includes goldenseal, but there are a few comercial growers. (and a small stand of it in my backyard)
> 
> Actually there was a recent publication of an herbal PDR (Physicians Desktop Reference) that covers medicinal plants from all over.



I did not know goldenseal was on CITES list. Does that include the patch in your back yard or are cultivated plants exempt?


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## gonewild (Dec 20, 2006)

Heather said:


> Then what? Do you spread it around? Etc?
> That Paph. looks fine. Is this just an example of application or... I'm confused. sorry!



OH sorry I guess I should explain. The paph in the photo is not fine but I actually dropped it on a healthy part of the leaf to show the Dragon's Blood better. After I applied this I just poured on a small amount of water to wash the resin down into the crown. This is actually a second application on this plant. I'll post some pictures as it is another example that is growing but I'm not sure it will live yet.


I would normally apply the drop to the infected area directly. If it is a infected spot on a leaf blade I spread the Dragons Blood with a cotton swab on both upper and lower surface. If the infection is in the crown area I apply the drop or drops directly in the center of the crown. If necessary I pour on a few drops of water to move the Dragons Blood down so that it spreads between the leaf surfaces.


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## Rick (Dec 20, 2006)

gonewild said:


> I did not know goldenseal was on CITES list. Does that include the patch in your back yard or are cultivated plants exempt?



Commercial propagators can probably get an exemption if they are growing in pots/beds under shade cloth (i.e.prove artificial propagation). Some plants like ginseng and bloodroot can be collected by state licensed collectors during certain seasons and export legally. Check out Frontier Herbs. They either grow it themselves or coop to other collector/growers.
The backyard patch was started from purchased nursery stock, but the backyard is a "reforestation project" and goldenseal is native to TN, so it doesn't look as artificial as it probably needs to be to prove artificial prop. (even if I was growing enough to export beyond the backyard).


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## gonewild (Dec 20, 2006)

Here is the Paph from the last photo showing the Dragon's Blood drops.

This is the plant the day I got it on 11/28/06 from the grower who was throwing it out because he knew it would soon be dead.






You can see the Dragon's Blood I applied.





11 days later.





23 days later (today)





The new leaf is growing and the infected leaf area does not seem to be spreading. It is not a fast grower to start with so time will tell more.


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## eOrchids (Dec 21, 2006)

Fascinating results, gonewild!

hmmm...maybe this could cure my Paph. St. Swithin problem.


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## Barbara (Dec 21, 2006)

This is a facinating experiment, I hope your results are as successful as I hope. It is very good news for paph. growers. Thank you for your work with this.


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## gonewild (Dec 21, 2006)

eOrchids said:


> Fascinating results, gonewild!
> 
> hmmm...maybe this could cure my Paph. St. Swithin problem.



What's wrong with with your St. Swithin?


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## gonewild (Dec 21, 2006)

OrchidNorth said:


> This is a facinating experiment, I hope your results are as successful as I hope. It is very good news for paph. growers. Thank you for your work with this.



You're welcome! I'll keep testing different plants as they become available.


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## eOrchids (Dec 21, 2006)

gonewild said:


> What's wrong with with your St. Swithin?



http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1899


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## gonewild (Dec 21, 2006)

eOrchids said:


> http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1899



Has the problem spread at all?
Did the damage on the leaf margin happen at the same time as that at the crown?
Can you post an up to date picture?

If it is bacterial, fungal or even viral the Dragon's Blood may eliminate it.


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## eOrchids (Dec 22, 2006)

gonewild said:


> Has the problem spread at all?
> Did the damage on the leaf margin happen at the same time as that at the crown?
> Can you post an up to date picture?
> 
> If it is bacterial, fungal or even viral the Dragon's Blood may eliminate it.



The problem hasn't spread at all. (I'm currently using Physan 20 to see if it can control the problem.) I think the problem occured at the same time. I'll try to get a updated picture tonight.


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## IdahoOrchid (Jan 17, 2007)

How about an update on the plant pictured 12/20? I am not sure which area you are referring to as not spreading? Is it the crown or the partially damaged and infected leaf on the lower right? If it is the lower leaf then it does appear the damage is spreading, but certainly not as quickly as it appears to have started.


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## gonewild (Jan 27, 2007)

IdahoOrchid said:


> How about an update on the plant pictured 12/20? I am not sure which area you are referring to as not spreading? Is it the crown or the partially damaged and infected leaf on the lower right? If it is the lower leaf then it does appear the damage is spreading, but certainly not as quickly as it appears to have started.



All of the dead leaf area is a result of an infection. The area I hoped to stop the spreading was that near the crown. You can see all but one leaf and the new center growth were infected. After application of the Dragons Blood the infection spread stopped. Although the badly infected leaves continue to slowly decline because of the tissue damage the infection has not spread to other leaves or into the crown. The new growth is growing so at this point I expect the plant to recover.

Here is a picture taken 01/27/07 of the plant posted on 12/20/06. 60 days after treatment.


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## IdahoOrchid (Jan 28, 2007)

This is what I hope for for my plant too. Treated with Phyton 27 then Dragon's Blood several days later.

Here is a picture of it prior to treatment. That is the terminal leaf. Not a good shot of all the damage but it does show what it looks like. I think the spread has stopped. It certainly has not spread much further, if at all.

Hoping, since this is a NBS plant with one mature and a new growth.


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## gonewild (Jan 28, 2007)

IdahoOrchid said:


> This is what I hope for for my plant too. Treated with Phyton 27 then Dragon's Blood several days later.
> 
> Here is a picture of it prior to treatment. That is the terminal leaf. Not a good shot of all the damage but it does show what it looks like. I think the spread has stopped. It certainly has not spread much further, if at all.
> 
> Hoping, since this is a NBS plant with one mature and a new growth.



Wow, it looks like you might have caught that spot in time since it is not spreading now. You can give it another dose of Dragons Blood for good measure. Make sure to get the Dragons Blood down into the crown even if you have to wash it in with a few drops of water. I think the Dragons Blood may have some systemic qualities but I'm not sure.
Please keep us posted with your results.


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## Sangii (Feb 2, 2007)

mmmmm very interesting thread ! I guess I might be able ti source this product here in Europe , but just in case Lance, do you ship to Europe ?


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## gonewild (Feb 2, 2007)

Sangii said:


> mmmmm very interesting thread ! I guess I might be able ti source this product here in Europe , but just in case Lance, do you ship to Europe ?



Yes, we ship worldwide.


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## Shadow (Feb 2, 2007)

It's amazing. I think I order one soon.


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## Shadow (Feb 4, 2007)

By the way, I have a question. For how long it can be stored once bottled?


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## gonewild (Feb 4, 2007)

Shadow said:


> By the way, I have a question. For how long it can be stored once bottled?



I don't think there is a definite answer for shelf life. I've been told it will keep in storage for over 5 years. I personally have seen it kept for several years.


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## SlipperFan (Feb 4, 2007)

Lance, I've used your Dragon's Blood on 4 plants so far. One of them was so far gone that nothing could have saved it -- I got my bottle too late for that one. But on the other 3 plants (two phrags and a paph), the rot seems to have stopped. We'll see what happens on these...

So far, I'm quite impressed.


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## bwester (Feb 4, 2007)

it cured my athletes foot... and the fungus on my back. Thanks Lance!!!


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## showme (May 29, 2007)

I live in London, ON and have the same problem with my paph. Maudiae which currently has two very healthy blooms. While it is still in bloom, is it safe to treat with"Dragon's Blood" and where can I purchase some?


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## gonewild (May 29, 2007)

showme said:


> I live in London, ON and have the same problem with my paph. Maudiae which currently has two very healthy blooms. While it is still in bloom, is it safe to treat with"Dragon's Blood" and where can I purchase some?



Dragon's Blood has no ill effect on the plant so no harm in using it while the plant is in bloom. It simply stops the infection immediately. In fact if you see an infection starting you should treat as soon as possible. 

You can buy Dragon's Blood from ShopGoneWild.com.


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## Heather (May 29, 2007)

I got to say, I got a plant from Lance that he treated with Dragon's Blood and it's doing mighty well. I think I'm gonna have to order some to keep on hand. 

How long is it good for, Lance?


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## gonewild (May 29, 2007)

Heather said:


> I got to say, I got a plant from Lance that he treated with Dragon's Blood and it's doing mighty well. I think I'm gonna have to order some to keep on hand.
> 
> How long is it good for, Lance?



You know no one really knows what the shelf life is. One company in Peru that is promoting it's use told me it would keep for 5 years. I personally have had some for about 3 years and I don't see any deterioration. Basically I think we can assume it will last several years especially for use on plants.


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## Heather (May 29, 2007)

gonewild said:


> You know no one really knows what the shelf life is. One company in Peru that is promoting it's use told me it would keep for 5 years. I personally have had some for about 3 years and I don't see any deterioration. Basically I think we can assume it will last several years especially for use on plants.



Thanks. 

I like to think I don't have much of an issue with rot.
Especially now that the Phrags are leaving the house in droves.


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## showme (May 29, 2007)

I have the same problem with my paph. maudiae which has two lovely blooms - posted a request for info on this "Dragon's Blood" with no reply yet. I am anxiously waiting for a reply...HELP, anyone!!!


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## gonewild (May 29, 2007)

showme said:


> I have the same problem with my paph. maudiae which has two lovely blooms - posted a request for info on this "Dragon's Blood" with no reply yet. I am anxiously waiting for a reply...HELP, anyone!!!



I did reply see post #50.
Here it is again...

Dragon's Blood has no ill effect on the plant so no harm in using it while the plant is in bloom. It simply stops the infection immediately. In fact if you see an infection starting you should treat as soon as possible. 

You can buy Dragon's Blood from ShopGoneWild.com.
__________________


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## NYEric (May 30, 2007)

I take my 5-10 drops w/ juice every morning and am treating fungus on plants, etc w/ Dragon's Blood..maybe I need a bigger bottle.


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## showme (May 30, 2007)

Thanks for the info - I've registered but am having some trouble completing the purchase - will ty later!


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## Grandma M (May 31, 2007)

showme said:


> Thanks for the info - I've registered but am having some trouble completing the purchase - will ty later!



I also had a problem. I had to redo my credit card info several times before it would work. It worked, after several trys with trying both AM Express and 
MasterCard.

I can't grow orchids with out Dragons Blood. I had a spot on my kovachi cross...OUCH, several weeks ago. I treated it with Dragons Blood and it stopped the spot from spreading and has now grown 2 more new leaves. 

I just placed a repeat order.


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