# Paph. rothschildianum 'group leader'



## paphioland (Mar 16, 2010)

Best one of this green valley x dou fang group so far. Still more to go


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## tim (Mar 16, 2010)

Do you have high hopes for a 1st bloom seedling with 2 buds? is it common for flower count to more than double?


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## paphioland (Mar 16, 2010)

I think flower count is very strongly cultural. These plants were all grown really well in florida and are blooming prematurely due to this. I think with certain cultural aspects that I can use I can get ALMOST any roth up to 4 flowers. You just have to do the cultural things which are extra work. I have seen roths with 5 flowers bloom the next year with different conditions with 2 flowers. I have seen 2 flowers bloom with 5. So if grown well ALMOST all roths can have 4 flowers. 5 or 6 may have some genetic component but still much is culture.


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## paphioland (Mar 16, 2010)

I will bloom it again. I am more concerned about the narrow petals and marbling on the pouch.


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## tim (Mar 16, 2010)

thanks. being unable to heat much past 50 in the winter, roths aren't a big thing for me, so i have no frame of reference for how much they can or cannot improve.


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## nikv (Mar 16, 2010)

I love seeing all the fine examples of seedlings from this particular cross (Green Valley x Dou Fang). It makes me hopeful for my plant to bloom. Maybe this year, maybe next. :rollhappy:


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## emydura (Mar 16, 2010)

That is pretty nice to me. Love the dorsal.

David


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## McPaph (Mar 17, 2010)

Looks good. I like the wide petals and the dorsal


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## Fabrice (Mar 17, 2010)

Yes, I like it!

I agree to tell the cultur conditions are important for number of flowers but as we said in France: "we never made a donkey of a horse race" (I'm not sure for the translation but you understand me! ;-) )


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## KyushuCalanthe (Mar 17, 2010)

Nice dorsal!


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## SlipperKing (Mar 17, 2010)

This clone has a better dorsal this blooming then the first one you showed, flatter. I commented on your first roth of having photos of both parents and so far, more then just yours, none have come up to the level of either parent. Of course there is always the possiblity the photos have been shopped!


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## paphioland (Mar 17, 2010)

SlipperKing said:


> This clone has a better dorsal this blooming then the first one you showed, flatter. I commented on your first roth of having photos of both parents and so far, more then just yours, none have come up to the level of either parent. Of course there is always the possiblity the photos have been shopped!



or the parents aren't correct. Still not that many have bloomed yet and I have seen some decent ones. I think the parents may be true but who knows. Have you heard of regression to the mean? It is a statistical genetic phenomenon. It applies to plant quality. So if you have two great parents far from the norm most of their children will be worse but very few will be better. If this selection goes on for a few generations then you get a higher percentage. Very few of the val x mm are great. Not every rex x mm was an fcc


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## etex (Mar 17, 2010)

paphioland said:


> I think flower count is very strongly cultural. These plants were all grown really well in florida and are blooming prematurely due to this. I think with certain cultural aspects that I can use I can get ALMOST any roth up to 4 flowers. You just have to do the cultural things which are extra work. I have seen roths with 5 flowers bloom the next year with different conditions with 2 flowers. I have seen 2 flowers bloom with 5. So if grown well ALMOST all roths can have 4 flowers. 5 or 6 may have some genetic component but still much is culture.


Gorgeous bloom!
Can you share the cultural aspects/things to increase blooms on roths?


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## SlipperFan (Mar 17, 2010)

I love the pouch color.


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## goldenrose (Mar 18, 2010)

paphioland said:


> I think flower count is very strongly cultural. These plants were all grown really well in florida and are blooming prematurely due to this. I think with certain cultural aspects that I can use I can get ALMOST any roth up to 4 flowers. You just have to do the cultural things which are extra work. I have seen roths with 5 flowers bloom the next year with different conditions with 2 flowers. I have seen 2 flowers bloom with 5. So if grown well ALMOST all roths can have 4 flowers. 5 or 6 may have some genetic component but still much is culture.






etex said:


> Gorgeous bloom!
> Can you share the cultural aspects/things to increase blooms on roths?


Yes please share, I'd like to know what you do differently for roths.



Fabrice said:


> Yes, I like it!
> I agree to tell the cultur conditions are important for number of flowers but as we said in France: "we never made a donkey of a horse race" (I'm not sure for the translation but you understand me! ;-) )


:clap: :rollhappy: :rollhappy: :clap:


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## Roth (Mar 18, 2010)

To comment, those Taiwanese roths are named like a fantasy, and for sure ther parents are definitely not Dou Fong or Flying Eagle or Green Valley or whatever.

There were micranthum album generic seedlings in flask sold in Tainan, all the same flasks from the same suppliers. Most of the paph sellers bought some before the show opening, and sold them with THEIR tags, but the same flasks, same seedlings, and the same laboratory flask code - 4466 -,telling that they are flasks of the same seed capsule.

Do you want micranthum album Albino Giant x Albino Snow from that one, or the micranthum album 'Seiko' AM/AJOS x self from that other reseller ? They got the labels printed so fast to put on their flasks that it was really funny. And the price ranged from NTD9000 to NTD26000 for a 3 seedlings flask, depending on the sellers, and the pictures they showed to me of the 'parents'. Not lucky, that's a friend who made the flasks, so I knew the scamstory...

For the roths, I was in Taiwan, and none of the real growers has Dou Fong progeny for sale, absolutely none. Same for Flying Eagle, Big Garden, they simply don't know what are those. They have Ro-6 x ro-8, and others roths Z2135-1 x 266-9 - means RxMM '1' x ValxMM '9'. But nothing like Flying Eagle x Dou Fong...

Don't mistake, there are some excellent ones that bloom in those plants, but the parentage is just not the correct one.


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## SlipperKing (Mar 19, 2010)

That's a bummer Sanderianum. Makes a guy not want to buy Taiwan anymore...NOT!


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## NYEric (Mar 20, 2010)

Ouch! what a bummer.


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## Roth (Mar 23, 2010)

SlipperKing said:


> That's a bummer Sanderianum. Makes a guy not want to buy Taiwan anymore...NOT!



Want to have fun? I just found out from a reliable nursery, Parkside Orchids, a picture of their Green Valley x Dou Fong roths. 







I have seen the very same some months ago, and even at the Tainan show, sold as ro-4 x ro-7. No doubt Parkside believe that they are the real deal, but in fact it's absolutely not GV x DF. As said previously, some are really gorgeous.

they bloomed out that one:






By the way, if anyone wonders how Dou Fong looks like, here is a picture:






I got a division 3 years ago from Taiwan, because they though that that plant was bad compared to the new RxMM ValxMM and CommanderxMM strains. Big mistake :evil:

They sold it at 1000US/growth. Last year during the harsh strom they had in Taiwan, the complete clump has been lost, so there are only very few divisions around the world. Good parent for sure. 

There is something weird, because Dou Fong nursery used to use either Dou Fong or... Nan Chou as a clonal name, so maybe they are one and the same, who knows... I just realize a couple minutes ago.



It is a jungle plant as well by the way.

But that's very clear that there are many different roths crosses sold from Taiwan with fancy names.


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## Fabrice (Mar 24, 2010)

Clonal names for roths are really mysteries...

My "Green Valley X Dou Fong" from Sam will be in flower in somes days. At this time, I note just the buds (3) are darker than all photos I saw.

Even if the name is bad, I hope just a nice roth. 

If not, Sanderianum will give me a division of Dou Fong...oke:


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## paworsport (Mar 24, 2010)

Hi,

I send you a pic of a roth : Big Garden x Green Valley from In Charm. 

It is the last year blossom.

The plan flowered on a single growth with 2 flowers of good shape but not too big due to the small size of the growth and after grows very fast and well.

I love it for the color :: the poiuch is red/pink and there is a nice contrast between the white of the rest of the flower. I think the next flowers will be better with good size and long stem. For me the plant flowered too soon for it's size.


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## SlipperFan (Mar 24, 2010)

I wish I had that problem!

It's quite nice, and has lots of potential.


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## Roth (Mar 25, 2010)

paworsport said:


> Hi,
> 
> I send you a pic of a roth : Big Garden x Green Valley from In Charm.
> 
> ...



Funny, my Big Garden x Green Valley that I bought from Ching Hua a couple years ago are 80 cm leafspan with very wide floppy leaves 

The Fly Eagle x Big Garden were the compacts ones like your picture. :sob:


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## paphioland (Mar 25, 2010)

Sanderianum said:


> Want to have fun? I just found out from a reliable nursery, Parkside Orchids, a picture of their Green Valley x Dou Fong roths.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I think Nanchou and Dou Fang are different clones but you are right it is possible since Nanchou was a collected roth from what was Dou Fang orchids owned by Mr Kuo.


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## paworsport (Mar 25, 2010)

of course may be some mystakes on the names on the tag... Who knows ?

The new growth is not as compact as the previous one and the leaves are large. I think my plant was cultivated on a very sunny place to have such growth and short stem.


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