# i hate the public...



## likespaphs (Feb 3, 2007)

okay, maybe not hate, but...
i've got this Paph supardii that's been limping along for a few years now. recently repotted it, seemed okay.
today, i'm giving a little tour, this guy has his coat strewn over his arm and bam, mix everywhere....broken leaves...
aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrgh.


----------



## Heather (Feb 3, 2007)

Damn. That sucks dude. 
That's why we don't allow coats and backpacks in the museum. People are always knocking into things. 

We were just talking about this the other day. I remember the first thing I learned when going to an orchid show is not to wear a scarf or anything that could possibly hit plants and flowers when you lean in for a closer look. 
People need to be more considerate. 

So, is the sup going to be okay? How badly damaged were the leaves?


----------



## bwester (Feb 3, 2007)

Should've *****-slapped him and asked him if it felt good.


----------



## BotanicaLtd (Feb 3, 2007)

Oh yeah! How about the customer who looked at our hybrid miltoniopsis, pulled a variety of tags, brought them up front to me and asked what colors they'd be when they bloomed. I then had four plants that became "unknowniis". And did she buy one? Nooooooooo.

Or how about the person that broke the tips of the spikes on the aerangis spiculata as they walked past...

Or...or...or... It sometimes makes us question if turning the hobby into a business was such a good idea. Thankfully, I have a greater number of POSITIVE experiences!


----------



## smartie2000 (Feb 3, 2007)

Damn that just sucks!


----------



## likespaphs (Feb 3, 2007)

BotanicaLtd said:


> ...Thankfully, I have a greater number of POSITIVE experiences!



ditto. just had to vent. 
it's when people just don't think that gets very aggravating...


----------



## terrestrial_man (Feb 3, 2007)

It may be alot of work but do your guest have to handle the plants or even to smell them. All they have to do is to see them. You can mitigate by widening the aisles, raising the benches up higher, or by actually mounting a clear plastic sheeting in front of the orchids that is secured to the bench and using fans to keep condensation off the plastic: only done when open to the public. People who love and grow orchids would be considerate; people who are only look-a-loos or who have other intent, such as snabbing some pollen off your highly awarded catt are indifferent. 
Just don't complain. Check out your situation and see what you can do to protect your precious! Also signs or hand outs that advise that if you break it or swap the label, it becomes yours!!!
Also another reason why I like using a label maker. You can stick labels right onto plastic pots- dont know about clay ones but if you seal an area then a label would stick on it. 
One thing I used to do when I dealt with customers was to put the flowering plants towards the back of the bench or otherwise make access to them simply impossible by hanging or setting on a ledge up above on the wall.


----------



## dave b (Feb 3, 2007)

Guilty confession.

I was shopping (for the first time) at Hoosier Orchids one day, sifting through a mess of Phrags they had on the end of a bench. Found a nice Don Wimber that had a spike about 6 -7 inches. Pushed it aside to dig in the 'pile' deeper to see what else they had. All of a sudden i fell resistance against my watch and hear a slight snap sound. Yep, you guessed it. Just broke off the soon to be Don Wimber bud. I felt horrible. Leon walked by about that time asking how i was doing and if i had any questions. I told him what i had done, and told him i would buy the plant regardless. I was interested in it, but not sure up to that point. He was actually quite forgiving, but i bought it anyway. Along with a Maxillaria tenuifolia, and Sederia japonica. Felt like the right thing to do.


----------



## likespaphs (Feb 4, 2007)

i work at a public conservatory so although i find some of your ideas appealing, they are impractical. i have signs up asking people not to touch specific things, but when people just don't pay attention, a handbag/purse/coat/elbow/nose/backpack/baby carrier is an instrument of destruction....


----------



## Mark (Feb 4, 2007)

BotanicaLtd said:


> I then had four plants that became "unknowniis"



I would have rung them up for her as I explained why the "you broke it/you bought it" rule applies.


----------



## Heather (Feb 4, 2007)

Mark said:


> I would have rung them up for her as I explained why the "you broke it/you bought it" rule applies.



It's not that sort of greenhouse - nothing is for sale. Hard to sell a plant that wasn't for sale in the first place.


----------



## Mark (Feb 4, 2007)

Cool! Then other avenues of revenge are opened when a business isn't at stake. :evil:

EDIT: Then in rereading Botanicaltd's post I'm confused as to why the malefactor was referred to as a customer and that B has a commercial web site.


----------



## likespaphs (Feb 4, 2007)

the tag thing happened at b's greenhouse which is a commercial greenhouse.
mine is a conservatory where things are only for lookin'


----------



## terrestrial_man (Feb 5, 2007)

likespaphs said:


> i work at a public conservatory so although i find some of your ideas appealing, they are impractical. i have signs up asking people not to touch specific things, but when people just don't pay attention, a handbag/purse/coat/elbow/nose/backpack/baby carrier is an instrument of destruction....



I still think that you can find some kind of mitigation that will protect your plants. It all depends on how you lay out
the floor plan and make the placements. Perhaps some kind of effective barrier like a low fence or wall that would fit into the scenic flow. For your situation it is a design and traffic flow chart that are your best defenses.


----------



## NYEric (Feb 5, 2007)

I work at a model railroad club that is open to the public on weekends. If the kids aren't touching something, [and trust me, a custom locomotive w/ a decoder inside could run about $230], it's the parent actually reaching over the plexiglass barriers! It makes you wonder what kind of common sense some people have.


----------



## terrestrial_man (Feb 5, 2007)

COMMON SENSE!
Maybe that is all they have!!!!! if you get my drift!


----------



## Wendy (Feb 6, 2007)

Two years ago i did a display for a local greenhouse that was having an 'Orchid Day'. I wasn't selling but simply showing off my plants....I was there with my display both days to answer questions as well. Despite me being there, and having two BIG plasticized signs that said 'NOT FOR SALE-DISPLAY ONLY" and 'PLEASE DO NOT TOUCH' I had to 'lose it' on a couple of ignoramuses (is that a word) who figured that the signs didn't apply to them. Man people can be stupid at times! And you know that they thought *I* was rude for getting angry?????!!!!


----------



## BotanicaLtd (Feb 6, 2007)

Wendy said:


> ...ignoramuses (is that a word)



It must be...they were in our greenhouse, too! I sometimes feel like we've tried everything---we've even blocked off certain areas of the greenhouse where we didn't want "the public" to go. Those blocked areas entice some people to "need" to go there even more---since there must be something important or special hidden there. I've grudgingly determined that it's part of business; and orchid shows and displays.

I just keep trying to focus on the positive (though it's difficult sometimes)...like the local fellow who visited the greenhouse to see if he could identify some orchids in slides he'd taken 30+ years ago in Cameroon. I enjoy visits like that and the conversations that ensue.

Maybe the key is to identify the ignoramuses as quickly as possible and somehow direct them to ---- ?!


----------



## terrestrial_man (Feb 6, 2007)

BotanicaLtd said:


> Maybe the key is to identify the ignoramuses as quickly as possible and somehow direct them to ---- ?!



A Bounce room filled with plastic orchids!:rollhappy: :drool: :evil:


----------



## BotanicaLtd (Feb 6, 2007)

Those are the orchids we recommend to people who ask for no-care, no-light, ever-blooming orchids. PERFECT solution!


----------



## smartie2000 (Feb 6, 2007)

The ignorant ones must think orchid nursuries have hidden places with expensive smuggled plants in those blocked off places. Just a guess...I'm amazed of what the public says about how rare orchids are or how they cost thousands


----------



## IdahoOrchid (Feb 6, 2007)

smartie2000 said:


> or how they cost thousands



They can and do. A club member brought his multi-thousand dollar phal to the mall for our orchid display and sale last weekend!!!! He was rarely very far from it, but still.......


----------



## smartie2000 (Feb 7, 2007)

It must have been a very pretty and unique phal then. what cross was it?
I usually think paph divisions or unsual mutations like varigated leaves when it come to thousands. Anyway I stay away from things that much for now


----------



## NYEric (Feb 7, 2007)

I know a character who got a rare [1 of 4] existing orchid once. Paid thousands. And I have to agree, in part, with the perception. In one [connecticut] nursery I know that the good stuff is isolated behind the 'velvet rope'.


----------



## IdahoOrchid (Feb 7, 2007)

smartie2000 said:


> It must have been a very pretty and unique phal then. what cross was it?



One of 6 known true divisions. He watched the original owner make the cut.

Phalandopsis Arizona Star 'Jim Turnbow' AM/AOS


----------



## terrestrial_man (Feb 7, 2007)

Nice but 4 digits! Over-rated like so much else, give me a mini anytime!


----------



## IdahoOrchid (Feb 7, 2007)

Supply and demand is what sets the price. He actually only gave up mid three digits for this one.


----------



## BotanicaLtd (Feb 8, 2007)

IdahoOrchid said:


> One of 6 known true divisions. He watched the original owner make the cut.
> 
> Phalandopsis Arizona Star 'Jim Turnbow' AM/AOS



Is the original owner of Sky Island? We got a compot of Ernestara Firestorm from him which is (Phdps. Arizona Star ‘Jim Turnbow’ AM/AOS) x Renanthera monachica ‘Red Spots’). We kept a couple of them and they are OUTSTANDING. I'm generally a species snob, but this Ernestara blooms and blooms and blooms and blooms and the color is terrific. Though the Renanthera monachica is a more managable size, the blooms on these are larger and last SOOO much longer...






Granted, I don't know as much as some about cloning...but couldn't these be cloned?!!! I know it's not always as perfect as it sounds, but could it?

-brenda
BTW --- I like how the "conversation" has shifted from the public to really cool orchids.


----------



## littlefrog (Feb 8, 2007)

Should be very easily cloned.


----------



## NYEric (Feb 8, 2007)

Wow, amazing colors, but it looks more vandaceous than Phal. I don't see why a hybrid should be so valuable [expensive].


----------



## littlefrog (Feb 8, 2007)

Assume you are a grower who would like to at least attempt to break even (expenses vs. income). Let us assume that person is me, although I have never had the opportunity to participate in this activity (either breaking even or selling an expensive plant):

When you buy something that can be easily mericloned, you are really buying the rights to do so. The only way I could keep control of a clone is to not ever divide it (or throw away the divisions). The minute I sell one, I lose control. I'm also controlling the breeding rights. Neon blue phalaenopsis? I want to breed with it and be the only person who can sell the offspring.

So, if I do have something that is truely spectacular, it is in my best interest to have it mericloned (or clone it myself) and sell clones (wholesale or retail). Using it in some well reasoned crosses and selling the progeny at a premium is also a good idea. If I didn't want to do that myself but somebody else wanted to, I'd charge a small fortune for the plant or a division. Similarly, as an investor, if the investment price is high I am reasonably assured that few divisions are out there and I have a reasonable expectation of a return on the investment. This is what drives prices up to the 3, 4, and 5 figure levels.

It works with everything, not just orchids... *grin* And there are always screwballs with more money than sense who want something just because it is expensive. That messes up the system a bit.


----------



## Heather (Feb 8, 2007)

Thanks Rob, I was trying to figure out a way to say that and your explanation was much more articulate than my attempt (which went unposted) last night.


----------



## likespaphs (Feb 8, 2007)

littlefrog said:


> ...And there are always screwballs with more money than sense who want something just because it is expensive. ...



i've got this 2004 penny that i'm looking to offload for a few thousand dollars. if you find any of them, please send them my way....


----------



## NYEric (Feb 9, 2007)

littlefrog said:


> Assume you are a grower who would like to at least attempt to break even (expenses vs. income).
> 
> 
> > Break even means what? Get back the price paid for the plant/s plus a portion of the costs of the greenhouse and the energy, materials [water, media and fertilizers] used to grow the plant? The 'time' invested cannot be returned. Honestly, commercial growers, like all businesses, are in business to make money. Usually they do this by buying volumes of plants at a reduced cost and selling them for profit. The turnaround into profit comes when income exceeds expenses.
> ...


----------



## littlefrog (Feb 9, 2007)

For me, break even means paying for the plants, supplies, and the utilities, and travel expenses for orchid judging activities. I'm going to have plants and a greenhouse regardless, and orchid judges travel a lot, might as well try to cover some of those expenses. I'll get pretty close this year, I think.

The time... well, if I didn't spend the time in the greenhouse I'd probably be smoking crack or something, it keeps me busy. I don't think I could ever 'break even' if it meant paying myself a decent wage and benefits. Not without a much bigger greenhouse and a much better local economy.


----------



## NYEric (Feb 9, 2007)

littlefrog said:


> For me, break even means paying for the plants, supplies, and the utilities, and travel expenses for orchid judging activities.
> 
> I don't think I could ever 'break even' if it meant paying myself a decent wage and benefits. Not without a much bigger greenhouse and a much better local economy.


It's tough, good luck. At least you're not in a service industry. You can obtain and produce a good. I've seen plants you have that are very desirable, hopefully you can produce them in quantity and in a rapid manner so that they sell well.


----------



## terrestrial_man (Feb 9, 2007)

littlefrog said:


> For me, break even means paying for the plants, supplies, and the utilities, and travel expenses for orchid judging activities.
> 
> I don't think I could ever 'break even' if it meant paying myself a decent wage and benefits. Not without a much bigger greenhouse and a much better local economy.








NYEric said:


> It's tough, good luck. At least you're not in a service industry. You can obtain and produce a good. I've seen plants you have that are very desirable, hopefully you can produce them in quantity and in a rapid manner so that they sell well.




Having been self-employed and having worked as an employee in the orchid trade, I would think that the notion of "breaking even" is entirely the wrong notion to have as an objective!oke: 

Even if you had several greenhouses and supplied half the country florist's shops you could very well be losing your shorts! :sob: 

What is important in conducting a business are two objectives: maintaining a viable cash flow and creating a cash surplus to allow not only for daily personal living expenses but for continued business growth. These two factors require an honest look at what the business is doing and at what market response has been to its (the business's) venture into the marketplace. 

As an accountant that has handled the paperwork for a wide variety of small businesses I have seen them come and go and while some survived many did not. What I think is really the most important consideration that is often overlooked is: TIME! That is, is doing this giving me the time to have a life or do I want to do this ALL the time just to have a life! Burn-out may be the number one affliction that really sets in course the downfall of any business venture. Day to day living demands may make even the most interesting business a tedium of demands that grate upon the conflict between what you really want to deal with and what you really HAVE TO deal with. 

For orchid growers I find myself wondering if any really fare as well as any other business and that they are all mutually clinging to the edge and taking some risks in order to generate adequate cash flow for day to day survival while jeopardizing the overall health of their enterprise. This is best illustrated by massive propagation of once desirable stock and dumping of unmarketable stock. The impact while providing for a low yield on a per plant basis really hits hard at the overall industry and adds to a lack of credibility by the public in both the merit of the merchandise supplied and the recognition that it is all irrelevant and therefore meaningless. This kind of scenario has been played out in the action figure industry which has simply devastated its consumer base by over-production and price gouging resulting in the death of consumer interest and apathy towards new product lines. 

Which brings me back to the original treatise of this thread. I hate the public BUT it pays the bills!:drool:


----------



## IdahoOrchid (Feb 10, 2007)

BotanicaLtd said:


> Is the original owner of Sky Island?



He got it from Jim's daughter after he had passed away.


----------

