# Phrag. Rouge Bouillon



## SlipperFan (Apr 11, 2016)

First bloom. Not perfect, but not bad. (dalessandroi x Memoria Dick Clements)
Taken with my iPhone.


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## tomkalina (Apr 11, 2016)

Nice!


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## eaborne (Apr 11, 2016)

Love it!


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## Migrant13 (Apr 11, 2016)

Wow, I love that close up photo.


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## abax (Apr 11, 2016)

I've seen this one advertised on ebay a couple of times and
hesitated to bid. I'll bid next time. Beautiful bloom and
exceptional for a first bloom. I love the detail in your
photographs.


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## Heather (Apr 11, 2016)

Not bad! I'd grow it.


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## Kawarthapine (Apr 11, 2016)

Well done Dot.

I love all of these pics but the last, your closeup is the winner in my books. 

You make the iphone camera look much better than I thought it was.


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## JAB (Apr 12, 2016)

Nice! 
Someone brought one for our meeting tonight. The saturation was unreal!


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## monocotman (Apr 12, 2016)

Looks very promising for a small plant!
David


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## NYEric (Apr 12, 2016)

Yay besseae hybrids!


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## e-spice (Apr 12, 2016)

Very nice. I like it. It will improve over time I bet.


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## trdyl (Apr 12, 2016)

Lovely!


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## 17andgrowing (Apr 12, 2016)

Nice


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## SlipperFan (Apr 12, 2016)

Kawarthapine said:


> Well done Dot.
> 
> I love all of these pics but the last, your closeup is the winner in my books.
> 
> You make the iphone camera look much better than I thought it was.



Thanks. 

The iPhone camera is like any point-and-shoot camera. The lens is decent and so is the resolution. It has limited focus capability, and is pretty fair with close-ups. It doesn't handle contrast ranges very well, but the HDR feature helps. 

But like any camera, one can take crappy photos with it and blame the camera, or one can choose appropriate backgrounds, lighting, and camera steadiness and take decent photos.

Please remember that I take all photos, taken with any camera, into Photoshop to correct any contrast, color or saturation problems that may have occurred. I guess there are other image-editing programs that are good, but I've been with Photoshop since 1992, so I find it quite handy.


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## terryros (Apr 12, 2016)

What are the main differences you see between this and your Jason Fischers in terms of plant growth habit and bloom color/configuration.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## SlipperFan (Apr 12, 2016)

I don't have a Jason Fischer, but I'm hoping with dalessandroi as a parent instead of besseae, that it will eventually branch.


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## Erythrone (Apr 12, 2016)

Great one!


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## Hien (Apr 12, 2016)

Hi Dot,


Does the tag have the number QF1484? if it does , I think they came from Quintal farms ,wait a few days to see if the dorsal fatten out more, the pouch hang down more vertical, and the bloom become even more red .
I have 4 Rouge Bouillon, 2 with the tag QF1484 with exquisite red blooms (first bloom Dec 27th 2015 , this week April 12th, 2016 they are into the 7th blooms , still have more buds) one has flower 10.4 cm , the smaller plant has 9.5 cm across , 7cm dorsal . The petals are more pointed than yours however . After open a few days, the dorsals flatten more and stand straight (not cupping likes some Jason Fischer) The pouches hang straight down as well instead of 90 degree , so looking side way ,the whole flowers appear straight like a sheet of paper .
I am looking forward to see how the other two Rouge bouillon ( Chuck Acker breeding) will look like, one of them I got from Littlefrogfarm here .


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## Hien (Apr 12, 2016)

terryros said:


> What are the main differences you see between this and your Jason Fischers in terms of plant growth habit and bloom color/configuration.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


 the FCC Jason Fischer' Priscilla' division I got has tight growths just as my two Rouge Bouillon (not climbing nor forming stolon) , the other 3 Jason Fischers crosses are still small so I can not tell ,but the fourth, a large Jason Fischer did form long stolon , and the pouch is more 90 degree to the dorsal .
I think the very best Jason Fischers are very hard to beat , but the average Rouge Bouillon will have better chance of having decent flower than the average Jason Fischer .


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## abax (Apr 12, 2016)

Dot, if you don't mind my asking, where did this Rouge
come from?


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## Hien (Apr 12, 2016)

abax said:


> I've seen this one advertised on ebay a couple of times and
> hesitated to bid. I'll bid next time. Beautiful bloom and
> exceptional for a first bloom. I love the detail in your
> photographs.



Monkeybusiness-fl (Jag orchids) & Luckygirl on Ebay both having the Rouge bouillon QF1484 at one time , however Lucky Girl also has the different Rouge Bouillon from Chuck Acker's breeding (these are still small , so i don't know about the flower situation yet)


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## terryros (Apr 12, 2016)

I had been thinking that the dalessandroi might reduce the stoloniferous growth pattern.

With Jason Fischers, I have seen that the flowers vary remarkable depending on exactly which besseae and MDC is used in the cross. I am sure the same is true with this cross. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## SlipperFan (Apr 13, 2016)

Hien said:


> Hi Dot,
> 
> 
> Does the tag have the number QF1484? if it does , I think they came from Quintal farms ,wait a few days to see if the dorsal fatten out more, the pouch hang down more vertical, and the bloom become even more red .
> ...



Indeed, it does, Hien! QF would indicate Quintal Farms. The dorsal hasn't flattened much yet, but this is only the first flower.

Angela, I actually purchased the plant from Natt's. Anchalee assured me it was a good one, and I do believe her.


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## Hien (Apr 13, 2016)

SlipperFan said:


> Indeed, it does, Hien! QF would indicate Quintal Farms. The dorsal hasn't flattened much yet, but this is only the first flower.
> 
> Angela, I actually purchased the plant from Natt's. Anchalee assured me it was a good one, and I do believe her.



I like this cross QF1484 a lot , I only have two plants yet both with straight vertical dorsals and the pouches hanging straight down ( I think this dorsal trait is from dalessandroi) , thus the flowers present themselves very well , while some Jason fishers the pouches and the dorsals forming 90 degree angle , the dorsal also cupping like a spoon (I notice this in quite a few besseae) , the flowers do not look fully open .


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## abax (Apr 13, 2016)

Thank you Dot and Hien for the info. on the plant. I'll just
cruise by Natt's to see what's available.

Hien, I thank you for the insight on Jason Fishers. I haven't been terribly impressed with the few I've seen.


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## NYEric (Apr 14, 2016)

abax said:


> Hien, I thank you for the insight on Jason Fishers. I haven't been terribly impressed with the few I've seen.


You might not have seen any nice ones.


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## abax (Apr 15, 2016)

Eric, no I haven't seen any nice ones in person. A few here
and various 'net sites. I like the color of the Rouge much
better and it's not listed on Natt's website at the moment.
Maybe when Chuck gets back from his trip (Canada?), he
may have some hanging around. I won't know until next
week.


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## Ozpaph (Apr 15, 2016)

great colour


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## NYEric (Apr 15, 2016)

A good Jason Fischer is better, the lateral sepals don't droop as much. Rouge Bouillon is a pretty common plant since Chuck released flasks. Try Lucky Girl Orchids.


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## brasphrag (Apr 16, 2016)

Very intense color!


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## abax (Apr 16, 2016)

Lucky Girl has some small Rouge, but not the QF1484.
Anchalee will have some more later in the season.

Eric, I don't see any droop, but then I'm a relative newbie to Phrags. What I do see is outstanding crimson
without a hint of orange. The bit of cup to the dorsal isn't
unexpected in a first bloom.


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## NYEric (Apr 17, 2016)

There are many red besseae hybrids. Jason Fischer was just the start, Elizabeth Castle, Windsor Castle, Red Wing, The introduction of fischeri adds another dimension of darkness. Also remember, the flesh is not red, that comes from the fine hairs. Most times photos dont show the true color unless corrected like Dot's.


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## Hien (Apr 17, 2016)

abax said:


> Lucky Girl has some small Rouge, but not the QF1484.
> Anchalee will have some more later in the season.
> 
> Eric, I don't see any droop, but then I'm a relative newbie to Phrags. What I do see is outstanding crimson
> ...


 I think
- the Rouge bouillon is hot red (red orange)
-the Jason Fischer is more of a cool red (red magenta)
The Jason fischer is just a tiny tad more saturate , but form wise I only have one good Jason Fischer (and that is a FCC division, which means it already is sorted out from a bunch of siblings by the original owner) , the first Jason Fischer in bloom that not sorted out yet is terrible in form , the dorsal is so cupped , the petals width (not length) is slightly larger than the Rouge Bouillon, but have many folds length wise. the throat of the pouch is so overlapping it looks like it wearing a Kimono), and it forms 4 inch long stolon , I did not keep it . I still have 3 more Jason Fischer to bloom out to see if any of them is better than the 2 Rouge Bouillon (I have only two QF1484, and both of them are keeper) , there are two more Rouge Bouillon from Chuck Acker's breeding not blooming yet to be compared later .


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## Hien (Apr 17, 2016)

NYEric said:


> There are many red besseae hybrids. Jason Fischer was just the start, Elizabeth Castle, Windsor Castle, Red Wing, The introduction of fischeri adds another dimension of darkness. Also remember, the flesh is not red, that comes from the fine hairs. Most times photos dont show the true color unless corrected like Dot's.


 I agree with Eric that the color contribution of the hairs is more than the background of the petals , and the photo sometimes is darker than the true color seeing by eyes . This even more so in the case of hybrids with other phrags that look red in the back of the petals & dorsal but very washed out in front of the petals ( Inca Ember and others , who would want to admire a flower from behind all the time?). That said, the Rouge Bouillon is true saturated orange red looking from the front .


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## terryros (Apr 17, 2016)

This discussion reminded me that the quality of the parents in any cross is important for the end result of the hybrid. On top of that is the randomness of the sorting of the genes. Then we finally get to our own culture (temperature, amount of light) to determine what a flower finally looks like. 

Phrag Jason Fischer has the most FCC awards of any orchid hybrid of any type. Obviously, most anything can be improved. As with anything popular, we went through a period when many crosses of Jason Fischer were made and not everyone had outstanding besseae or Memoria Dick Clements to use. 

As with the most popular breeds of dogs, relatively indiscriminate breeding results in a number of fairly mediocre off spring. I have only seen (and have) Orchids Limited's' Jason Fischers (both older and newer versions), as well as their Red Wing cross. I also have a Fox Valley Fireball (but mine is more purple). 

I am sure that high quality parents in Rouge Bouillon will result in a fine flower but I wouldn't want to compare all of the different red Phrag hybrids without a careful comparison of the best examples of each of them. Probably no one would really like to do this.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## abax (Apr 17, 2016)

Perhaps it's my monitor, but I don't see any orange at
all in Dot's Rouge. The besseae I have blooming now are
lovely Chinese Reds. I'm the daughter of a painter and was schooled intensely about color growing up. I still say
it's crimson...no orange. My four besseae are Peach Cobbler x Colossal Peach and Balance x Curves and the
Chinese red has a great deal of orange in it.


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## littlefrog (Apr 17, 2016)

Actually I have a fair number of seedlings left... I haven't bloomed any of mine yet though.

Rob



Hien said:


> Hi Dot,
> 
> 
> Does the tag have the number QF1484? if it does , I think they came from Quintal farms ,wait a few days to see if the dorsal fatten out more, the pouch hang down more vertical, and the bloom become even more red .
> ...


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## Hien (Apr 18, 2016)

abax said:


> Perhaps it's my monitor, but I don't see any orange at
> all in Dot's Rouge. The besseae I have blooming now are
> lovely Chinese Reds. I'm the daughter of a painter and was schooled intensely about color growing up. I still say
> it's crimson...no orange. My four besseae are Peach Cobbler x Colossal Peach and Balance x Curves and the
> Chinese red has a great deal of orange in it.


 Of course it is not orange like the pure Dalessandroi or other orange phrags.
It is just more leaning to the orange direction (direction of scarlet, vermilion,crimson tint) "relatively" when compare with the red of the besseae (carmine tint) .
Also this cross has MDM , which is already a cross using besseae & sargentianum (not dalessandroi twice)


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## abax (Apr 19, 2016)

Hien, interesting observations about the perception of color. Of course, there's individual bias to the perception as well. Very few of us are
totally objective about the colors we see. Perhaps I don't see the
orange tint because my besseae have been blooming a long time and
I'm a bit tired of the bright red/orange. Maybe my monitor is different. Human perception is wonderfully diverse.


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