# Cyp. Singchii



## cypris (Jan 27, 2013)

I have been searching the internet for culture information about this species - does anyknow know how to grow it and as I do understand it is subtropic and will not tolerate minus celcius degrees. Which kind of soil it prefer ? and it does enjoy lime ?? I will be glad for all help


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## Dido (Jan 27, 2013)

First it is not sure that it is subtropicum, 
It is found somewhere else. 
I have seen some grwoing fine, they are cultivated in Kanuma/Akadama and looked happy. 
The grower told me he has 2 different types he feel, one is big and the other is compact and faster growing. 
1 flowered for him after he get them but not any more. They seem to stay green for a long time, and in direct comparison with selenipedium they looked really similar at this young selenipedium, which this person grow in the same mix. He did not try how cold hardy it is. but I get told in this region it will go down clos to 0 C in the winter too. 
If you search there was discussion here in this formum before.


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## dodidoki (Jan 27, 2013)

cypris said:


> I have been searching the internet for culture information about this species - does anyknow know how to grow it and as I do understand it is subtropic and will not tolerate minus celcius degrees. Which kind of soil it prefer ? and it does enjoy lime ?? I will be glad for all help



I would be interested, too.I heard about gowing in akadama/kanuma mix,too, it is a little acidic because of kanuma. In winter said to has similar conditions like cool growing paphs, eg. villosum. I would like to have one, too, so if anyone has experience, let us know, please.

Many thanks: Istvan


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## cypris (Jan 27, 2013)

Thanks for information - I saw picture of it in situ - an article on internet - it does looks like the area was with a bit shadow and if I am not completely wrong I imagine that the soil is with minerals and not to coarse - I did look at the picture of the selenipedim mix and it surely must be to coarse - when one think of the other chinese Cyps most of them will grow in anything as long as there are lime and good drainage - and off course some are difficult - the small tiny ones and the one with spotted leaves 
I have never heard of akadama/kanuma and if one could explain what this is I would be grateful - thanks. 
That the xingchii must have a cool winterperiode is for sure - but does someone know how could it gets in the area it grows - I imangine subtropic but could it be more temperate ??


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## Rick (Jan 27, 2013)

dodidoki said:


> I would be interested, too.I heard about gowing in akadama/kanuma mix,too, it is a little acidic because of kanuma.
> 
> Many thanks: Istvan


Maybe that would be a good media for Selenipedium too. Or maybe just straight kanuma?

The soils for Selenipedium are acidic red clay.


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## Hakone (Jan 27, 2013)

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23781&page=3

Akadama :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akadama

Kanuma :http://www.maibanbonsai.com/akadamaandkanumasoils.aspx


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## KyushuCalanthe (Jan 27, 2013)

Kanuma and Akadama are both mined products of the Kanto Region of Japan, near Tokyo. Kanuma is a weathered pumice with great water holding capacity and very good crumb structure. Akadama is fairly small red clay balls that retain good moisture as well, but eventually falls apart, making essentially mush - dangerous in a pot situation. Both are slightly acidic in reaction, but can promote great root growth in many plants. Quality products are sterilized, making them good for cuttings. Bad points - expensive outside of Japan.

BTW, plants of C. subtropicum and C. singchii in collections today are wild sourced, legally or otherwise. To give a picture - a new location is found and within a short time is stripped clean. I've not seen any plants here in Japan, or America - most seemed destined for Europe. Seed has also been exported, and I know of at least two places where seedlings have been produced, though how they will grow on to adulthood is unknown.

Subtropical to warm temperate plant IMO. Should be grown frost free.


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## Rick (Jan 27, 2013)

KyushuCalanthe said:


> Kanuma and Akadama are both mined products of the Kanto Region of Japan, near Tokyo. Kanuma is a weathered pumice with great water holding capacity and very good crumb structure. Akadama is fairly small red clay balls that retain good moisture as well, but eventually falls apart, making essentially mush - dangerous in a pot situation. Both are slightly acidic in reaction, but can promote great root growth in many plants.



BTW Tom was hoping you would throw in on the Selenipedium conversation. Olaf posted a pic on a Sel. species growing in Ecuador. There was a soil slough near the plant which showed a typical red clay soil (looks like anywhere in the SE US). Anyway some chem checks on (at least US) red clay soils show very acidic and nutrient poor. With your background in Eastern US plants and Japanese style culture what do you think about Selen culture?


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## Dido (Jan 28, 2013)

rick as I told the same person I have seen singchii growing has selenipedium too and they are doing fine for him, every time I was back there was a new growth on them. He think the temp is a key to, he has them growing on the place with the main heat in his gorwing areas. At least this is what this perosn feels, and he is the only one I have heard till now, who has it alive for nearly 2 years, and still gowing new growth....

By the way Kanuma and Akadama you can haye in different sizes. So they mix looks like a normal cyp mix if you use the small stuff.....


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## dodidoki (Jan 28, 2013)

Dido said:


> rick as I told the same person I have seen singchii growing has selenipedium too and they are doing fine for him, every time I was back there was a new growth on them. He think the temp is a key to, he has them growing on the place with the main heat in his gorwing areas. At least this is what this perosn feels, and he is the only one I have heard till now, who has it alive for nearly 2 years, and still gowing new growth....
> 
> By the way Kanuma and Akadama you can haye in different sizes. So they mix looks like a normal cyp mix if you use the small stuff.....



It sounds very good! Has it flowered yet??? If yes, was there any attempt for breeding?


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## Dido (Jan 28, 2013)

No flower till now, they are still small, most aim of him to keep it alive, and get it big enough for cutting it. then he will maybe give more to grow. 
The culture is not perfect, but he is working on it. 
Will asked on my next coffee with him if I am allowed to take a pic. 
I did not make one till now.


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## KyushuCalanthe (Jan 28, 2013)

Rick said:


> BTW Tom was hoping you would throw in on the Selenipedium conversation. Olaf posted a pic on a Sel. species growing in Ecuador. There was a soil slough near the plant which showed a typical red clay soil (looks like anywhere in the SE US). Anyway some chem checks on (at least US) red clay soils show very acidic and nutrient poor. With your background in Eastern US plants and Japanese style culture what do you think about Selen culture?



Hey Rick, I have no idea about culturing Selenipedium outside its native range. Certainly you'll need a greenhouse since the darn things are almost tree size!

I suspect the the deep south's red clays are somewhat different from tropical ones, given their developmental history in a largely temperate climate. 

As for Japanese products, akadama, a clay product, is rarely used alone, but most often mixed with other components that have better structure. It holds water and nutrients well, but tends to lose its structure over time. So. perhaps it in combination with kanuma and/or finer pumice grades, might be suitable for Selenipedium cultivation.

Having said that, C. subtropicum isn't similar to Selenipedium from what I've heard, and at this point, long term techniques for keeping it successfully haven't been ironed out. It is indeed an oddball species that probably shouldn't be handled in the same way as other members of the genus.


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## Berthold (Jan 29, 2013)

KyushuCalanthe said:


> Hey Rick, I have no idea about culturing Selenipedium outside its native range.



We had a lot of tests on Selenipedium and meanwhile I am pretty sure that Selenipedium aequinoctiale is strongly dependent on fungi protection against rotting. And the native fungus will only survive in a pure mineral clay substrate but not in pot culture.
But maybe there are different fungi around supported with the same protection potency.
You can also see parts of our discussion on this field:
http://www.orchideenkultur.net/index.php?topic=5030.0 

But cultivation of Cypripedium subtropicum is a complete different site.


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## dodidoki (Jan 29, 2013)

Berthold said:


> We had a lot of tests on Selenipedium and meanwhile I am pretty sure that Selenipedium aequinoctiale is strongly dependent on fungi protection against rotting. And the native fungus will only survive in a pure mineral clay substrate but not in pot culture.
> But maybe there are different fungi around supported with the same protection potency.
> You can also see parts of our discussion on this field:
> http://www.orchideenkultur.net/index.php?topic=5030.0
> ...



I think so about sel. Next attempt, if any, I will order not only plant but original soil and try to grow it in a bigger pot, avoiding plant from any chemicals.

Subtropicum culture is very poorly known, too, because only few person tried to grow and succes rate is very poor, only Hakone posted a pic about a cultivated flovering plant but surface was covered with moss so noone can tell something about potting mix.


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## dodidoki (Jan 29, 2013)

Here:
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25743&page=3&highlight=subtropicum


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## Berthold (Jan 29, 2013)

dodidoki said:


> Subtropicum culture is very poorly known, too, because only few person tried to grow and succes rate is very poor, only Hakone posted a pic about a cultivated flovering plant but surface was covered with moss so noone can tell something about potting mix.



You don't have to expect special problems with the substrate. But the green part of the plant is perennial that means nearly frost free in the winter time and never low humidity and full sun in summer


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## NYEric (Jan 30, 2013)

I was reading in an old AOS magazine about a selenipedium species from Surinam, that didn't seem so hard to propagate. Anyone heard of this?


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## Dido (Feb 4, 2013)

Saw last week some cyp Sing kinds, they are looking fine in mix of kanuma/akadama, some are starting new growth. 
There is a big kind with growth up tp 1m and a smaller kind with around 30cm and they stay since soem years like that. 
Not one has flowered now a second time. But all look helathy, they stay at around 15C at the moment. And I saw on 3 new growth starting. A little bit more water they want. The pricate person who have them dont allow to take pics or want to shared his name with someone.
He has selenipedium too they are growing still for him, and he think that the downgreading of the akadama is benefitial to the plant as discussed on Bertholds forum at the moment. So he agrees, only that selenipedium seem to need a lot of water and high temps possible compared to his other orchids. At least this is what this person things.
I saw all with my own eyes, and really wanted to take one of them with me home, but was not allowed. Only the promiss that I will get pollen if one flowers again.


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## Berthold (Feb 4, 2013)

Dido said:


> Saw last week some cyp Sing kinds, they are looking fine in mix of kanuma/akadama, some are starting new growth.
> There is a big kind with growth up to 1m and a smaller kind with around 30cm and they stay since some years like that.
> Not one has flowered now a second time.



Yes the first flower is still powered by the old root system. But then the plant needs 3 or 4 more years to develop new roost adapted to the substrate in the pot before it is able again to support new flowers


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## Rick (Feb 4, 2013)

Berthold said:


> Yes the first flower is still powered by the old root system. But then the plant needs 3 or 4 more years to develop new roost adapted to the substrate in the pot before it is able again to support new flowers



What does Dido mean by downgrading of the akadama?

What is the feeding rate, and with what please?

Unfortunately I cannot follow your thread in German.


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## Berthold (Feb 4, 2013)

Rick said:


> What does Dido mean by downgrading of the Unfortunately I cannot follow your thread in German.



Rick, German will become basic language for discussions on cultivating Selenipedium and Cypripedium subtropicum :wink:


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## NYEric (Feb 4, 2013)

Wow! Deutschland Deutschland uber alles..!! :evil:


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## Dido (Feb 4, 2013)

downgrading is not a german word....

I mean braking down of the medium it will not longer stay in the form and will go back to its natural look like sand or soil....


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## KyushuCalanthe (Feb 4, 2013)

Hey Dido, interesting that the breakdown of the akadama (which starts out as balls of hard clay) to a finer form actually seems to benefit the plants instead of harming them. For most other plants that is a problem with this material and one reason why it is mixed with other substrates - to keep the structure of the medium more open.

I'm fascinated to hear about what happens with all these plants - will they really become established and happy for another round of flowering, or will they succumb to fungal infection, etc. Even more interesting are the seedlings that are being produced here and there - can they be grown on out of flask, or will they too fail. I'm watching, but not buying. My pockets aren't that deep.

In the end I hope someone is successful because by the looks of it, pressure from humans on remaining populations is going to only get worse in the future. The one thing this species has going for it is its wide natural range and the tendency to grow in sporadic, small colonies - harder to find and exploit. Another good thing - they produce copious seed in the wild, or so it is said, so there is always hope that a few seedlings "get away" after a colony has been stripped of all adult and subadult plants.

A friend of mine is in southern Yunnan at the moment and he is rather floored by the humanity there - quite different from the wild, open place he had imagined.


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## KyushuCalanthe (Feb 4, 2013)

Berthold said:


> We had a lot of tests on Selenipedium and meanwhile I am pretty sure that Selenipedium aequinoctiale is strongly dependent on fungi protection against rotting. And the native fungus will only survive in a pure mineral clay substrate but not in pot culture.
> But maybe there are different fungi around supported with the same protection potency.
> You can also see parts of our discussion on this field:
> http://www.orchideenkultur.net/index.php?topic=5030.0
> ...



Thanks Berthold. I bow to your experience since I have none in this matter! Interesting about the fungal link - much like some Epipactis I would surmise. Do you suspect the same issue with C. subtropicum? From what I understand the molecular studies of this species do no put them very close to Selenipedium as was first though based on gross morphology.


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## Berthold (Feb 4, 2013)

KyushuCalanthe said:


> Do you suspect the same issue with C. subtropicum?



No, subtropicum seems as robust against rotting like other Cypripedium also


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## Hakone (Feb 5, 2013)

There are know a cross between subtropicum and reginae


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## Dido (Feb 5, 2013)

Hakone said:


> There are know a cross between subtropicum and reginae



But did you heard that seeds have germinated. 

I know from 2 trials where no seed germinated. 

Maybe a cross with californicum or wardii should be working...


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## Berthold (Feb 5, 2013)

Hakone said:


> There are know a cross between subtropicum and reginae



no, there isn't. No capsula with seeds developed as far as I know.


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## Dido (Feb 6, 2013)

Berthold said:


> no, there isn't. No capsula with seeds developed as far as I know.



Thanks Berthold, I was hopping, but heard from all I know that nothing happens......


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## Berthold (Nov 2, 2013)

Yesterday I saw a healthy plant in Germany. You can see the shoot from 2012 and from 2013. Plant size is about 50 cm (20 inch for non metric people)


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## dodidoki (Nov 2, 2013)

Great plant!!!Is it in sphagnum or is there sphag only on surface???

Back to selenipediums: I tried with a new one, got it in Merch and still alive, furthermure there are 2 new growths ( just started). I grow it in clear sphagnum, and sel. seems to like it.

Otherwise subtropicum is very sensitive to hot.I had two ones, first got heat shock in summer, before I set airconditioner, after setting this machine my shocked plants recovered, exept one of subtropicums and my draculas. I had a heat swich what swich on airconditioner at 28 C and swich it off at 23 C.


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## Berthold (Nov 2, 2013)

dodidoki said:


> Great plant!!!Is it in sphagnum or is there sphag only on surface???
> 
> C.



Only on surface. Below is Seramis with 20% Kanuma. The sphagnum layer has to equalize the humidity in the substrate.


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## KyushuCalanthe (Nov 2, 2013)

Well that plant certainly looks promising. From what I know of others in cultivation they not faring very well. Hopefully somebody will succeed propagating this species before it is completely stripped from the wild.


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## Dido (Nov 4, 2013)

Nice one looks great is it from master P or from a diifferent source. 

Looks at least nice. 

I hope that someone can succesfull grow them from seed.


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## Berthold (Feb 9, 2014)

My rented plant is doing well at room temperature in winter time


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## KyushuCalanthe (Feb 9, 2014)

Berthold said:


> My rented plant is doing well at room temperature in winter time.



Looks very promising indeed!


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## NYEric (Feb 9, 2014)

Good luck.


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## Dido (Feb 10, 2014)

Nice one, congrats. 

There seem to be 2 diifernte types in Europe I have seen now. 
One with shorter growth like yours and some with really long one. 

Will be interesting if some of them start to flower


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