# Phragmipedium hirtzii



## naoki (Mar 15, 2015)

I purchased it from Peruflora in 2013. It was fairly large plants when I got it. It recovered from the importation fairly quickly (I seem to experience more initial leaf/growth dropping with wet Phrags than other orchids after importation). It grows at a good pace (I guess most of this types of Phrags have a fast pace).

The staminode is supposed to have no hair, but if you magnify, you can see some residual hairs. Hmmm.




Phragmipedium hirtzii on Flickr




Phragmipedium hirtzii on Flickr




Phragmipedium hirtzii on Flickr




Phragmipedium hirtzii staminode and lip on Flickr




Phragmipedium hirtzii staminode on Flickr

The color balance is screwed up a little with this one, but here is the lack of "horns" of the pouch (Eliseo pointed this out in the page 2 of this thread).



Phragmipedium hirtzii on Flickr




Phragmipedium hirtzii plant on Flickr

The leaves became a bit yellow around the area too close to the light source (COB-LED: Cree CXA3070 3000K @ 50W).


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## mrhappyrotter (Mar 15, 2015)

Great species. The problem with phrag species is I want them all, but some of them are expensive and/or hard to find.

I love the wet growers. While I haven't gone through to importation process with any plants, I do know that the water loving phrags are almost universally quick growers (may not apply to species, though), and when provided with new growing conditions and potting mix, they go into a growth spurt to adapt, which usually means dropping older leaves. Usually the leaf drop is predictable ... when you see multiple roots and new growths splitting the base of old leaves or pushing them off the plant, the leaf death is inevitable.


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## Paph_LdyMacBeth (Mar 15, 2015)

What a plant!! 
Thanks for all the great photos! 

Sent from my BlackBerry Bold 9900 using Tapatalk


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## SlipperKing (Mar 15, 2015)

Hun.. maybe the original describer didn't have a magnifying glass.
Nicely bloomed and photograhed


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## Rick (Mar 15, 2015)

Pretty cool Naoki
I believe the one I have is also a Ecuagenera sourced plant (though swapped from a friend). I think mine has a little more ruffling t the petals but otherwise about the same. What kind of leaf length/width are you getting?

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30437


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## troy (Mar 15, 2015)

Looks alot like pearcei, healthy plant, congrats on the blooms!!


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## Secundino (Mar 15, 2015)

Great photographs, as always - thanks for sharing this beautiful flowered plant. Looking at Phrags is addictive ...


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## Migrant13 (Mar 15, 2015)

Beautiful photos that really do the flowers justice. Your plant looks like a monster.


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## naoki (Mar 15, 2015)

SlipperKing said:


> Hun.. maybe the original describer didn't have a magnifying glass.



I probably should check the original description, I was just going with the info from PhragWeb. Could it be from natural hybridization/introgression?



Rick said:


> I believe the one I have is also a Ecuagenera sourced plant (though swapped from a friend). I think mine has a little more ruffling t the petals but otherwise about the same. What kind of leaf length/width are you getting?
> 
> http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30437



Rick, I remember your thread. You are right; the "ruffle" part is the difference, but they look similar. Do you remember the hair on the staminode? The leaf length is 16" (40cm) and the width is 5/8" (1.6cm). The shadier side can extend to about 18".



mrhappyrotter said:


> Great species. The problem with phrag species is I want them all, but some of them are expensive and/or hard to find.
> 
> I love the wet growers. While I haven't gone through to importation process with any plants, I do know that the water loving phrags are almost universally quick growers (may not apply to species, though), and when provided with new growing conditions and potting mix, they go into a growth spurt to adapt, which usually means dropping older leaves.



I don't have lots of Phrags, but they appear to show more rapid metabolism (than Paphs) as you said. I usually don't remove older leaves because I want all nutrients to be recycled, so I had to remove lots of old brown leaves before taking photos.

Peruflora Phrags seem to be very affordable. It was originally 1/2 to 2/3 of the current size (maybe around 10 growths at that time?) but it was only $28. I was expecting a single growth, actually. The other Phrag from them was also a giant.



Migrant13 said:


> Your plant looks like a monster.



It does take up quite a bit of space, indeed (it's in 6" pot), but fortunately, it isn't as tall as other Phrags.


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## SlipperFan (Mar 15, 2015)

I love the twisty petals. This species is so hard to find.


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## eteson (Mar 15, 2015)

Nice plant!
It is very similar to my clones...see page 2 in the Rick's link... and very different from the other ones from Ecuagenera.
Your plant and mine does not have the typical horns in the pouch characterizing Lorifolia section. It is very interesting.


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## naoki (Mar 16, 2015)

eteson said:


> Nice plant!
> It is very similar to my clones...see page 2 in the Rick's link... and very different from the other ones from Ecuagenera.
> Your plant and mine does not have the typical horns in the pouch characterizing Lorifolia section. It is very interesting.



Thanks, Eliseo. If I look at the photo of your plant more carefully, I can see a bit of hairs on the top edge of the staminode. The shape of the pouch is very slightly different; yours seem to have pointy pouch. On mine, the right flower has the widest point in the middle of the pouch, but the left flower does have the widest point at the top of the opening (but less pointy than yours). So the shape appears to be somewhat plastic, and influenced by the environment.

I wonder where Peruflora plant is originated from.

I'm not familiar with Phrags, and what is the "typical horns in the pouch" for the Lorifolia section?


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## eteson (Mar 16, 2015)

Naoki, yes the pouch of your plant is slightly different but the overall flower is very similar... what i mean with "the horns in the pouch margin" is this: (drawing from the original description, side view of the pouch)







The plant described has a pouch shape similar to boissierianum and even the ruffling in the petals seems to me boissierianum influenced (I do thing that there could be some degree of hybridation between hirtzii and boisierianum)... on the other hand your plant is much more close to the Colombian ones... It would be great to know the origin of your plant... but I am pretty sure that it comes from the northernmost part of Ecuador or the south of Colombia (most likely the second one).


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## phraggy (Mar 16, 2015)

Whatever its colour or shape of things it is one beautiful phrag and I'd love one.

Ed


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## Rob Zuiderwijk (Mar 16, 2015)

A very nice specimen, that I would definitly call a hirtzii, whatever the haircut of the staminode. I agree that there seems to be some variation, but that is the case with all the other species/taxa as well.

Great photos. Thanks for sharing.

All the best,

Rob


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## tomkalina (Mar 16, 2015)

x roethianum? Maybe Olaf could chime in on this.......


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## eteson (Mar 16, 2015)

tomkalina said:


> x roethianum? Maybe Olaf could chime in on this.......



I do think that is a var. of hirtzii. Some time ago I sent pictures of my clones to Olaf and he agreed.


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## eaborne (Mar 16, 2015)

Cool!


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## Rob Zuiderwijk (Mar 16, 2015)

tomkalina said:


> x roethianum? Maybe Olaf could chime in on this.......



I have been thinking about that too. But in my opinion the shape and markings of the lip do not indicate _longifolium_ influence to me.


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## tomkalina (Mar 16, 2015)

I'll have to re-read the description, but I think it mentions a completely bald staminode?


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## naoki (Mar 17, 2015)

Thank you for the interesting points, Eliseo, Tom and Rob! After Eliseo pointed this out, I can really see the big difference in the shape of the "horns" (I added one more photo of this in the first post).

It looks like that I have to get the original description (and I might need to do self-fertilization for fun).

I also posted a side-by-side photos of this species and P. longifolium var. roezlii (from Tom) in another thread for no good reason other than they were blooming at the same time. Are all variety of P. longifolium has greenish/yellowish pollinia? My P. hirtzii has red/brown pollinia.


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## eteson (Mar 17, 2015)

It would be great to self your plant also my plants should be spiking soon. I think that it would breed true. Then we should describe it as a var of hirtzii. I've been calling it var. colombian or var. anchicaya (the valley where it is found here in Colombia) but since it is not described could be var. naokii. .
The main reason why I do not think it is x roethianum is because the lack of horns in the pouch. roethianum keeps the horns of the both parents. The pouch rim remembers me Lorifolia x Himantopetalum more than Lorifolia x Lorifolia. But i do have the feeling that it is not a hybrid but a var of hirtzii.


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## Hamlet (Mar 17, 2015)

Whatever it is, those are great pictures of a beautiful plant!


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## naoki (Mar 19, 2015)

I did just self-fertilized today, Eliseo. It is probably a regional variety as you said.

The left side photo of P. hirtzii in the Phrag. Checklist of Orchid Digest doesn't seem to have the horns (although it is difficult to tell from the photo).

I couldn't find lots of info about P. x roethianum, but it does seem to have the horns as Eliseo said.


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## MaryPientka (Mar 19, 2015)

This is lovely!


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## Kawarthapine (Mar 21, 2015)

A great plant with some history can be a good thing.

Hope the selfing goes well.

Will look forward to pics of progeny.


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