# Stunted Paph. species won't grow.



## bulolo (Dec 6, 2021)

I have 2 primulinum f. purpurascens seedlings that I have had for 5 or more years that absolutely refuse to grow any larger. The plants are about 2-3 inches wide. They are the only survivors of a compot that I got years ago. Does anyone have suggestions as to how I can get these to grow or should I compost them?


I just can't get them to bulk up. Frustrating!


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## Ray (Dec 7, 2021)

Have you considered throwing some KelpMax on them?


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## LO69 (Dec 7, 2021)

Ray said:


> Have you considered throwing some KelpMax on them?


Ray, Is kelpmax to be used as foliar feeding or as a drench?


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## Ray (Dec 7, 2021)

Either one, but you need to think about the "mechanics" of the uptake. In other words, "yes", it can be applied as a foliar spray, but does the plant respond well to that?

Many orchids are notoriously poor at foliar uptake, because they have waxy cuticle layers on the leaves, which evolved as part of the plants' water retention strategy. Unfortunately, a coating that prevents water loss is probably pretty good at preventing uptake as well. Phalaenopsis have very thick layers, so are poor at foliar uptake, and in my opinion - based upon observation only - paphs are up there, as well.

Generally, young plants have not yet had time to develop the waxy cutex to a significant degree, so are better about foliar uptake than are mature plants, and plants with thinner leaves tend to be better at it than those with thicker leaves. For example, I speculate that "strap-leaved" paphs are better at it than mottled-leaved ones, and that phrags are even better.

Again - and this seems to be the only "universal" thing I can think of about orchid culture - it's not an "all or nothing" scenario. Plants that are poor at foliar uptake still do _some_... Besides, if you spray a plant thoroughly, much of it drips into the substrate anyway, giving the plant the opportunity to use its roots.


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## LO69 (Dec 7, 2021)

Ray said:


> Either one, but you need to think about the "mechanics" of the uptake. In other words, "yes", it can be applied as a foliar spray, but does the plant respond well to that?
> 
> Many orchids are notoriously poor at foliar uptake, because they have waxy cuticle layers on the leaves, which evolved as part of the plants' water retention strategy. Unfortunately, a coating that prevents water loss is probably pretty good at preventing uptake as well. Phalaenopsis have very thick layers, so are poor at foliar uptake, and in my opinion - based upon observation only - paphs are up there, as well.
> 
> ...


Thank you Ray for the great lesson!


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## bulolo (Dec 7, 2021)

Yes I've got some kelpmax coming my way from Ray. Will give it a shot and give the plants another year or so otherwise I think they are going to be composted.


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## richgarrison (Jan 17, 2022)

i was doing some random reading and came across this from Harold Koopowitz... thought you might be interested..


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## PhragNewbie021 (Jan 17, 2022)

Where do you get the fresh cinnamon Rich?


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## BrucherT (Jan 18, 2022)

richgarrison said:


> i was doing some random reading and came across this from Harold Koopowitz... thought you might be interested..
> 
> View attachment 31818


Wow. Never heard of this. Cinnamon. Wow. I’d like to see a photo tutorial.


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## richgarrison (Jan 18, 2022)

PhragNewbie021 said:


> Where do yogurt the fresh cinnamon Rich?



Harold says he just maintains a fresh supply. So anywhere that you might get fresh spices. Assuming “yogurt” == “ you get “

Otherwise I’ll just chuckle at the pun.


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## PhragNewbie021 (Jan 18, 2022)

Yep. I just corrected it!


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## werner.freitag (Jan 18, 2022)

any experience with Paphs?


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## PhragNewbie021 (Jan 19, 2022)

I'd like to see a photo tutorial Too!


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## richgarrison (Jan 19, 2022)

werner.freitag said:


> any experience with Paphs?



That paragraph is an excerpt from his book “the tropical slipper orchids”. It’s specifically about paphs.


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## JimNJ (Feb 4, 2022)

Ray said:


> Either one, but you need to think about the "mechanics" of the uptake. In other words, "yes", it can be applied as a foliar spray, but does the plant respond well to that?
> 
> Many orchids are notoriously poor at foliar uptake, because they have waxy cuticle layers on the leaves, which evolved as part of the plants' water retention strategy. Unfortunately, a coating that prevents water loss is probably pretty good at preventing uptake as well. Phalaenopsis have very thick layers, so are poor at foliar uptake, and in my opinion - based upon observation only - paphs are up there, as well.
> 
> ...


Ray, can I mix microbial mixes (Mikrobs) or Epsom salts in with the Kelpmax solution when I water? Trying to simplify my routine.


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## Ray (Feb 4, 2022)

JimNJ said:


> Ray, can I mix microbial mixes (Mikrobs) or Epsom salts in with the Kelpmax solution when I water? Trying to simplify my routine.


As far as I know, sure.


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## JLOG (Feb 5, 2022)

bulolo said:


> I have 2 primulinum f. purpurascens seedlings that I have had for 5 or more years that absolutely refuse to grow any larger. The plants are about 2-3 inches wide. They are the only survivors of a compot that I got years ago. Does anyone have suggestions as to how I can get these to grow or should I compost them?
> View attachment 30967
> 
> I just can't get them to bulk up. Frustrating!


I have a stonei and a charlesworthii with the same problem in the past. They make me crazy, I tried with different soils, place, watering schedule. They have been years without growing even. At last how it works for me was to repoted in a small pot. They have been always in a bigger pot that they need!! Your primulinum remind me my plants. Maybe not be the problem, but maybe can help you


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## Happypaphy7 (Feb 5, 2022)

I wish you the best with them and would love to hear about any positive update after trying kelpmax.
However, I do believe those are probably just runts unless they were treated properly all these years (two main things I would ask: are they properly watered and not allowed to dry out and stay dry too long on a regular basis, are they kept warm since this is a warm grower at all time) 
The fact that they are still at this size after five years time gives a pretty clear answer to me.
That is a long enough time for them to be blooming once or twice already for the best growing seedlings.
Some seedlings just won't grow.


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