# Then they came for us...



## Gcroz (Oct 21, 2009)

http://biggovernment.com/2009/10/06/the-orchid-police-criminalizing-everything-everyone/#more-13646

Remember Pastor Martin Niemoller's warning!


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## smartie2000 (Oct 21, 2009)

I can't believe they prosecuted him to two years. They are just potted plants! Give him a break. He is insignificant compared to the results of habitat destruction.


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## parvi_17 (Oct 21, 2009)

It's things like this that make me feel lucky to be a Canadian.


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## lipelgas (Oct 21, 2009)

reading this doesn't make me happy at all. even not because it happened so far. "If they want to get you, they're going to get you." - is this what we want from law?


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## biothanasis (Oct 22, 2009)

Should the laws be made to protect the citizents or make them feel fear and deprived of freedom?? Should the laws be based on logic or to convey the "need" for power of some people?? If we understand the reason why the laws were made, then we might understand things like this Gcroz mentioned!!! Although there will be no excuse for it!!!


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## bio_lover (Oct 22, 2009)

Why can't they use discretion before passing down the sentence?


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## Gcroz (Oct 22, 2009)

Thanks to all those who have commented. The situation is, in my opinion, out of control and contrary to the very nature of our Constitution. I find it interesting that there are no members from the USA who have commented yet as this type of action is becoming more and more common, and will continue to do so without concerted opposition. 

I'm curious about other opinions out there.


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## slippertalker (Oct 22, 2009)

The George Norris situation is nothing new as most of you know. His sentence is long over and he has suffered greatly from the stupidity of our laws regarding CITES and his own personality. The recent article from the Hertige Foundation and the Washington Times is just hashing over old territory. 

He's not an innocent victim, by any means, but the government was over the top. 

Here's a nice discussion of the article:

http://www.popehat.com/2009/10/08/l...-rampant-criminalization-of-innocent-conduct/


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## cnycharles (Oct 22, 2009)

you may not get many, seeing that orchid forums are very public and last virtually forever... in some place or another. things will likely get worse, and less constitutional, because for one of the reasons is that most of the people who are in offices or unelected positions don't know anything about the constitution and don't want to, because it has 'rules' that would tell them they can't do whatever they want. our society has created a population that wants whatever it can get, right now if not sooner. everything is done all for the love of quick cash, and who cares about tomorrow... 
people talk about doing something to stop this; if you don't have lots of money (power) nobody is going to listen or pay attention to you. government has been co-opted by those with lots of money and voting clout. people who could be good elected officials or otherwise often have no interest in getting slimy or they know that the deck is stacked against them, so they don't bother. ... and a so-called revolution would end as fast as someone's cable tv or phone service got cut off; they wouldn't know how to deal without their technology. plus, (some humor here) today's revolutionaries would probably post their 'battle strategy' on twitter and get caught beforehand! lol
best bet is to be somewhere else


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## Gcroz (Oct 22, 2009)

Amen on the Twitter comment. I don't mean to incite anything that would be considered dangerous to anyone. However old the news is, it is relevant as it shows that it is a problem unrelated to what party is in power. If change is ever to come, lively debate, is necessary. 

Sorry I wasted anyones time.


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## slippertalker (Oct 22, 2009)

The genesis of this is the kneejerk reaction of the CITES participants to include paphs and phrags on list I. Add in the strict constructionist administration of the laws by our government and courts, and it results in cases like this one. At this point, I don't see it changing and one of the best friends of orchid addicts, at USFW, Roddy Gabel is supposedly going to retire.


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## SlipperFan (Oct 22, 2009)

I think Jerry Fischer was trying to do something to get the CITES rules changed. I don't know where that effort stands.


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## cnycharles (Oct 22, 2009)

Gcroz said:


> Amen on the Twitter comment. I don't mean to incite anything that would be considered dangerous to anyone. However old the news is, it is relevant as it shows that it is a problem unrelated to what party is in power. If change is ever to come, lively debate, is necessary.
> 
> Sorry I wasted anyones time.



I don't think you've wasted anyone's time, my comments above were directed 'outwards' towards the general powers that be and the situation, and shouldn't be thought of as towards your posting here. ...i'm not sure why you said the above so I'm just explaining my part


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Oct 22, 2009)

I've discussed George's situation enough times here...the guy got screwed, sure enough. But also keep in mind that part of the reason for the severity of the sentence was that George refused to cut a deal. They wanted him to say everything he knew about other importers who were doing far more serious things, but he refused to say anything.


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## Lanmark (Nov 6, 2009)

Hey Gcroz, I'm in agreement with what cnycharles said a couple of posts above me: I don't think you've wasted anyone's time. This may be old news, but it's still relevant today.


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