# Roth experts!



## The Mutant (Sep 1, 2012)

I need your input!

I'm planning for next years possible joint order from Orchid Inn so I've checked their website to see what they have. I saw that they have (now, that is, don't know if they'll still be there till next year) several interesting roths, but I was wondering if anyone could tell me a bit more about them?

I was thinking about a REAL MM this time (if it'll still be available that is), but I want some more (can you ever have enough of them?). One of the crosses that looks interesting to me is, Paph. rothschildianum x sib ('Oriental Red' x 'Mont Miliais' FCC/AOS'), because I would love a roth with a lot of red. 

Other crosses they have that look interesting to this newbie are; 'Golden Boy' AM/AOS x 'Giant Wings' GM/WOC and 'Excelsior' FCC/AOS x 'Red Glory' FCC/AOS. I don't care about if they are awarded clones or not (although it might look like I do) since I don't know if I'll ever be able to even get them to bloom, but I want to try. :rollhappy:

What I'm interested in is colour and contrast, how "easy" they are to grow and flower, so anything about the parents of their crosses that you can tell me about? Are some of them more difficult than the others, easier, more vigorous etc.?

The sad part might be that I have to do this all over again in the beginning of next summer since Orchid Inn's list will probably have changed till then. :rollhappy:

I'll be grateful for any input.


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## Justin (Sep 1, 2012)

I suggest any of the crosses that include 'Val' x 'Mont Millais' (or say from Japan) in the parentage. So his crosses with 'Canadian Club', 'Perfection', and others. 

Sam has a lot of crosses with Val x MM strain crossed to US roths, mostly from Rex x MM. These are going to be nice. Tokyo Orchid Nursery did the Val x MM plants and the second-generation from this line is expected to be the cutting edge.

I am sure he will have these next year.


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## ehanes7612 (Sep 1, 2012)

from my flasks...Oriental Red x MM is the fastest and easiest growing....golden boy x giant wings are average growers..sam's choice x perfection grow fairly well...and if you can get any crosses with can club (i believe all he has is Jim Krull x can club) , do so as he will have very limited quantities as they get older


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## The Mutant (Sep 1, 2012)

Justin said:


> I suggest any of the crosses that include 'Val' x 'Mont Millais' (or say from Japan) in the parentage. So his crosses with 'Canadian Club', 'Perfection', and others.
> 
> Sam has a lot of crosses with Val x MM strain crossed to US roths, mostly from Rex x MM. These are going to be nice. Tokyo Orchid Nursery did the Val x MM plants and the second-generation from this line is expected to be the cutting edge.
> 
> I am sure he will have these next year.


Thanks for your input Justin. I'll keep my eyes open for the Val x MM crosses (he has several of those which is good). What do you say about the Rex x MM cross? Is that one as good as the Val x MM, or is the other one superior? Do you have any of his crosses yourself and if you do, what is your experience of them?



ehanes7612 said:


> from my flasks...Oriental Red x MM is the fastest and easiest growing....golden boy x giant wings are average growers..sam's choice x perfection grow fairly well...and if you can get any crosses with can club (i believe all he has is Jim Krull x can club) , do so as he will have very limited quantities as they get older


Thanks, I'll really hope he'll have the Oriental Red x MM next year too, then I'll get one! :drool:

Oh darn, I really liked how Golden Boy looked like in his pictures. Good to know. Okay, I hope he'll also have some Canadian Club crosses left next year so I can get one of those too.


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## Justin (Sep 1, 2012)

I have many of Sam's roths, I've grown about 7 of his flasks. I haven't bloomed any of the new generation yet--still a year or so away for the first flask I grew, but I've bloomed some of his earlier cross Sam's Best x Rex which turned out pretty nice.

You can't go wrong with any of the newer crosses. Ehanes is right you should try to get one with Canadian Club as a Parent. Perfection will be another great parent.

Here is good reading for the history of the roth crosses out there:

http://slipperorchidblog.com/?p=83


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## eggshells (Sep 1, 2012)

The Mutant said:


> Paph. rothschildianum x sib ('Oriental Red' x 'Mont Miliais' FCC/AOS')
> 
> and 'Excelsior' FCC/AOS x 'Red Glory' FCC/AOS. I don't care about if they are



I have those two crosses. Its quite amazing how we both think alike. Good choices. I think the 'Excelsior' is an old awarded clone before the MM standards. I do have a couple of pictures for you to look forward to. 

the 'Excelsior' x 'Red Glory' was purchased with 14 cm (5.5 in) leaf span last year. It is now ~53 cm (21 in) 







this one is the 'Oriental Red' x 'Mont Miliais' FCC/AOS'. My friend paphman gave this to me. He had grown it very well and its adapting to my conditions quite well.







link to the high resolution photo if you are interested:
http://imgur.com/UhwNj
http://imgur.com/I3dBp


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## The Mutant (Sep 1, 2012)

Thanks again Justin, I'll have some reading to do.  So I'll be on the lookout for Val x MM, Canadian Club, and Perfection next year then.

I wish it was next year already so I could order them now! Oh, well, in the mean time, I'll watch over my three little ones and see how they do. The "MM" I have is so far the quickest grower, although the other two have their excuses (new plant and the other one with no roots in the beginning, and an over zealous owner...), as a matter of fact, it's much faster than I ever thought a roth would be, especially one with only a single lead. I'm glad though.


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## The Mutant (Sep 1, 2012)

eggshells said:


> I have those two crosses. Its quite amazing how we both think alike. Good choices. I think the 'Excelsior' is an old awarded clone before the MM standards. I do have a couple of pictures for you to look forward to.
> 
> the 'Excelsior' x 'Red Glory' was purchased with 14 cm (5.5 in) leaf span last year. It is now ~53 cm (21 in)
> 
> ...


Wow, thanks! I really look forward to seeing yours bloom. :drool: Yup, you have great taste in Paphs (since it seems to be very similar to mine :wink: ).

The 'Excelsior' x 'Red Glory' has grown pretty fast then, or? I've no idea, but it sound a lot to me at least.

How long have you had the 'Oriental Red' x 'MM'?


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## eggshells (Sep 1, 2012)

Wayne got it at 12 cm I believe and I got it from him last spring. So just a ~3 months. That newest leaf was just a little than an inch long when I got it.

The excelsior I think is a fast grower. Also the new leaves that grew for me is wider than the previous.


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## The Mutant (Sep 1, 2012)

eggshells said:


> Wayne got it at 12 cm I believe and I got it from him last spring. So just a ~3 months. That newest leaf was just a little than an inch long when I got it.
> 
> The excelsior I think is a fast grower. Also the new leaves that grew for me is wider than the previous.


Sounds promising I think.

Now I really wished it was next year...


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## cnycharles (Sep 2, 2012)

what about pre-ordering? you could tell him to add a little depending on how long he would be 'holding' a plant for you


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## The Mutant (Sep 2, 2012)

I've gotten that suggestion from a helpful member (you guys just want me to drown in the Paph swamp, admit it! :wink: ) so I'm going to mail Orchid Inn and ask if it's possible to do so. I hope it is.


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## ehanes7612 (Sep 2, 2012)

it's been my experience that he will only allow preordering for flasks..he does a lot of business with overseas and is extremely busy that its doubtful he would be motivated to remember holding any plants, especially roths..i even order a lot from him and i have asked him to hold plants for me along with any preordering of flasks, he always forgets , so i dont ask to preorder individual plants anymore.its best just to wait until you have money in hand or when he is able to ship

but i guess it doesnt hurt to ask


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## consettbay2003 (Sep 3, 2012)

In the past I have placed significant orders with Sam well in advance of his trip over and he has forgotten every time. Now I give him a 'gentle reminder' of my order at approximately the time of his order deadline and have had not problems since then.


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## The Mutant (Sep 3, 2012)

Aha, seems like being a bit scatterbrained comes with the orchid territory. 

I'll email and ask him whether he thinks the crosses I'm interested in will still be available or not when it's time. I know it's a very difficult question to answer, but all I'm after is an estimation after all.

Thank you all for you help.


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## The Mutant (Sep 3, 2012)

Oooh, it's Christmas!

I forum friend discovered that Orchid Inn is coming to Germany on the 24th of September so I emailed Sam faster than lightning (or really, really fast anyway) to ask if it was to late to order anything from him. I received an answer that said that he has some space left so now I've told him which roths I'm interested in. Keep your fingers crossed that I'll be able to buy them!


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## eggshells (Sep 3, 2012)

What did you buy? My stuff will be shipped on Tuesday which is tomorrow.


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## ehanes7612 (Sep 3, 2012)

The Mutant said:


> Oooh, it's Christmas!
> 
> I forum friend discovered that Orchid Inn is coming to Germany on the 24th of September so I emailed Sam faster than lightning (or really, really fast anyway) to ask if it was to late to order anything from him. I received an answer that said that he has some space left so now I've told him which roths I'm interested in. Keep your fingers crossed that I'll be able to buy them!



he's really good about reserving and bringing the plants you requested if its a couple weeks within the show..if he has already said he can bring them then they are yours


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## The Mutant (Sep 3, 2012)

eggshells said:


> What did you buy? My stuff will be shipped on Tuesday which is tomorrow.


So far two, maybe three roths: 
Paph. rothschildianum x sib ('Jim Krull' FCC/AOS x 'Canadian Club' GM/JOGA)
Paph. rothschildianum x sib ('Oriental Red' x 'Mont Miliais' FCC/AOS')

and the maybe one is:

Paph. rothschildianum x sib ('Gigantic' FCC/AOS x 'Perfection' FCC/AOS, G/JOGA)

The problem is that he also has PEoY NBS that cost about the same as the one from Elsner, but I bet these are much better quality, so I want one of those too... Plus a superbiens var. curtisii that sounds stunning (and then I know I would get a superbiens that I liked) I don't know if I should switch one of the roths for a PEoY and a curtisii or not...

If I could I would take them all, but it's that little problem called "money" you know. 



ehanes7612 said:


> he's really good about reserving and bringing the plants you requested if its a couple weeks within the show..if he has already said he can bring them then they are yours


That's really nice of him.


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## ehanes7612 (Sep 3, 2012)

The Mutant said:


> So far two, maybe three roths:
> Paph. rothschildianum x sib ('Jim Krull' FCC/AOS x 'Canadian Club' GM/JOGA)
> Paph. rothschildianum x sib ('Oriental Red' x 'Mont Miliais' FCC/AOS')
> 
> ...


 

I would go with the roth instead of the PEOY


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## eggshells (Sep 3, 2012)

The Mutant said:


> So far two, maybe three roths:
> Paph. rothschildianum x sib ('Jim Krull' FCC/AOS x 'Canadian Club' GM/JOGA)
> Paph. rothschildianum x sib ('Oriental Red' x 'Mont Miliais' FCC/AOS')
> 
> ...



Do you have a stonei yet?


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## Paphman910 (Sep 3, 2012)

eggshells said:


> Do you have a stonei yet?



Ohh Noo! You are in trouble NOW!!!!

hehehhehe!

Paphman910


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## The Mutant (Sep 4, 2012)

eggshells said:


> Do you have a stonei yet?


Nope. It's nice looking, but I prefer the roth and/or wilhelminiae, besides, the stonei is an even bigger plant than the roth, I'll run out of windowsills faster than you can say "Oh my God, that's a lot of flowers!". :rollhappy:



I am now debating whether or not to order all five of the plants instead... :drool:


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## eggshells (Sep 4, 2012)

Can i help you shop? Go for the two roths you listed and get a gardineri and a praestans.

PAS0353 and 0295 both are compact miltiflorals.


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## The Mutant (Sep 4, 2012)

Hmm... That gardineri doesn't sound too bad actually and considering I like wilhelminiae and all... I'll have to think about it.


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## Paphman910 (Sep 4, 2012)

eggshells said:


> Can i help you shop? Go for the two roths you listed and get a gardineri and a praestans.
> 
> PAS0353 and 0295 both are compact miltiflorals.




The cross PAS0353 is a real good grower and likes warm temperature. I got it 2 years ago and it has leafspan of about 7 inches across with a new growth.

The roth I liked is the one with 'Oriental Red' x 'Mont Millais' as it is a vigorous and fast growing plant.

PS I find Paph stonei is a way faster grower than roth!

Paphman910


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## The Mutant (Sep 4, 2012)

Well, I haven't regretted listening to *eggshells* so far and it's darn tempting I must say. Problem is that the T5 is in the kitchen so the roths and the gardineri will suffer the same temperatures, unless I do like Ayreon did, and toss the roths outside when they've reached BS.


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## NYEric (Sep 4, 2012)

dont forget the albums! :evil:


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## The Mutant (Sep 4, 2012)

Nah, no albums for now, now I want a gardineri I think. I'll ask Sam if he can swap the last roth with a gardineri instead. *eggshells* has done it again. :rollhappy:


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## eggshells (Sep 4, 2012)

The Mutant said:


> Nah, no albums for now, now I want a gardineri I think. I'll ask Sam if he can swap the last roth with a gardineri instead. *eggshells* has done it again. :rollhappy:



I only want the best for you


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## The Mutant (Sep 5, 2012)

eggshells said:


> I only want the best for you


Which is for me to drown in Paphs, right? :wink:

Yay! He agreed to replace the roth with a gardineri! Now I'll have two baby roths and one gorgeous little gardineri!

Now I'll have to run around and be ridiculously happy for a while! :rollhappy:


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