# Hookerae ‘Icarus Wings’



## DrLeslieEe (Apr 23, 2020)

It looks like hookerae season is upon us. Everyone seems to have one in spike or in buds. Exciting!

My hookerae was in bud for a long time since February ... 6 weeks? The bud kept growing higher and higher towards the light bulb until it almost touched it. I had to move it away in case it got burnt. 

It finally opened couple days ago and it stretched his wings (petals) quite widely. They were so long and wide I aptly named him ‘Icarus Wings’ after the boy flew too close to the sun.

NS 11 cm, warm nights all year (19-21C) and medium low light (one LED bulb), heavy RO water all year, maybe slightly less (if anything, one day later) in winter. Feed every 2-3 watering with MSU/kelp alternate foliar spray, MgCal few times a year. Bark/perlite/charcoal mix.


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## SlipperKing (Apr 23, 2020)

Damn! That's GREEN!

Does the plant itself have a maroon pattern to the underside of the leaves? 2 of mine do the 3rd does not.


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## Don I (Apr 23, 2020)

Neat.
Don


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## dodidoki (Apr 23, 2020)

Pouch is a little strange to me but petals are first class, wide, staight with great coloration.


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## GuRu (Apr 23, 2020)

Indeed those petals spread widely and the green is striking, very intense. Altogether a lovely hookerae, congrats.


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## Ozpaph (Apr 23, 2020)

thanks for the cultural tips


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## Guldal (Apr 23, 2020)

He is a very nice guy...almost looking like var. volonteanum!  Congrats on that beautifull flowering!

Kind regards and envy, 
Jens


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 23, 2020)

SlipperKing said:


> Damn! That's GREEN!
> 
> Does the plant itself have a maroon pattern to the underside of the leaves? 2 of mine do the 3rd does not.


There is a little bit of maroon brushing as pic below. Also it’s the same parent cross as yours too SK... so it will be interesting to compare!


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 23, 2020)

I took the liberty to take more pics today under different lighting. Gives a different kind of feel each time.


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 23, 2020)

dodidoki said:


> Pouch is a little strange to me but petals are first class, wide, staight with great coloration.


The pouch is off a bit to the flower left and not centered. Kinda similar to the sangii pouch in webbing. Yes the colours are pretty amazing.


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 23, 2020)

Thanks all for the encouragement for this nice flower. It’s always a great surprise when a good coloured flower with a good shape serendipitously appear after flowering a few bad ones in the past.


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## Guldal (Apr 23, 2020)

That infloresence... It's amazing... And then they say size doesn't matter


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 23, 2020)

Guldal said:


> That infloresence... It's amazing... And then they say size doesn't matter


It's 50 cm high that infloresence. Crazy!

As for whether it is a volonteanum or hookerae, the verdict is out there. What is everyone's thoughts?

Note the staminode is notched on top and bottom (as would a hookerae) but the blushed maroon underside of leaves and deep flower colors are also present (as a volonteanum would).


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## gego (Apr 23, 2020)

Very nice form and color.


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## SlipperKing (Apr 24, 2020)

Yes, it will be interesting to see what mine reveals. Mine are only about 30cm so I have some waiting. The all green plant is really behind at 1cm!


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 24, 2020)

SlipperKing said:


> Yes, it will be interesting to see what mine reveals. Mine are only about 30cm so I have some waiting. The all green plant is really behind at 1cm!


It's a race between the two, while the wee one takes it's own sweet time


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## Guldal (Apr 24, 2020)

DrLeslieEe said:


> As for whether it is a volonteanum or hookerae, the verdict is out there.



This could cause a little distress or a minor crisis in the camp of the 'spreaders' - whilst the 'lumpers' would remain fairly calm...after all, what is volonteanum to them, but a variety of hookerae!


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## Rockbend (Apr 24, 2020)

DrLeslieEe said:


> I took the liberty to take more pics today under different lighting. Gives a different kind of feel each time.
> View attachment 19593


Gorgeous hookerae!! 

Again, if you use black fabric as a background, black velvet or even a black t-shirt, you won't get the glare in the background.
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-mxkHRj5/0/6b054714/O/i-mxkHRj5.jpg


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## richgarrison (Apr 24, 2020)

wonder if the two parents were both (true) hookerae? ;-)

either way would love having that on my bench to look at... wonderful... i have one just starting to show color from Sam... hoping it's a keeper


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## BrucherT (Apr 24, 2020)

I have a volonteanum with a bud that I’m starting to worry about. I thought it would be open weeks ago. Still looks fat and green but no changes in awhile. Did you do anything condition wise to get it to open? I could really use a flower right now.


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## BrucherT (Apr 24, 2020)

I should have congratulated you first on your spectacular flower. I know this is a harder one to grow and yours looks beautiful.


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## richgarrison (Apr 24, 2020)

speak gently.... and lovingly....


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 24, 2020)

Thanks... 

BT.... Don’t change any environmental conditions or might blast. It will open on its own. Have patience!


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 24, 2020)

Rockbend said:


> Gorgeous hookerae!!
> 
> Again, if you use black fabric as a background, black velvet or even a black t-shirt, you won't get the glare in the background.
> https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-mxkHRj5/0/6b054714/O/i-mxkHRj5.jpg


Yes on my next setup ... need to get velvet.


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## tomkalina (Apr 24, 2020)

There looks to be some var volonteanum in it. Maybe ( hookerae var hookerae x hookerae var volonteanum) ?


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## lori.b (Apr 26, 2020)

Nice colours, and I like the shape of it too. I'd be happy if my hookerae would just grow!


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 26, 2020)

tomkalina said:


> There looks to be some var volonteanum in it. Maybe ( hookerae var hookerae x hookerae var volonteanum) ?


Yes I believe it has elements of both. The differences between the two are so slight that breeders would not consider one or the other I would think (since no one can tell which one one is or not), but rather choose the best of the lot to breed. Without a doubt this pairing has produced wonderfully shaped and colored blooms as seen here as well as Joker's post.


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 26, 2020)

lori.b said:


> Nice colours, and I like the shape of it too. I'd be happy if my hookerae would just grow!


Sing as loud as you can to your plant:

"Grow grow grow your leaves, Gently down your feed
Merrily merrily merrily merrily, bloom as fast you can" ;0

And repeat daily...
Might just work as a spell...


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## lori.b (Apr 26, 2020)

DrLeslieEe said:


> Sing as loud as you can to your plant:
> 
> "Grow grow grow your leaves, Gently down your feed
> Merrily merrily merrily merrily, bloom as fast you can" ;0
> ...


I will try that. My neighbours already think I'm a crazy plant lady so I have nothing to lose!


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## Rockbend (Apr 26, 2020)

One difference I've noticed between hookerae and volonteanum is that I can grow and bloom hookerae - I have had volonteanums for 10 years that have never gotten bigger than 3" across and never bloom.


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 26, 2020)

Rockbend said:


> One difference I've noticed between hookerae and volonteanum is that I can grow and bloom hookerae - I have had volonteanums for 10 years that have never gotten bigger than 3" across and never bloom.


Interesting. Volonteanums are supposed to come from highlands of Sabah (vs lowlands of Sarawak). Have you tried cooler nights? And different lines of volonteanums as well?


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 26, 2020)

lori.b said:


> I will try that. My neighbours already think I'm a crazy plant lady so I have nothing to lose!


Hehe.... let us know!!


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## Linus_Cello (Apr 26, 2020)

lori.b said:


> My neighbours already think I'm a crazy plant lady so I have nothing to lose!



what type, crazy Catt lady?


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## lori.b (Apr 27, 2020)

Linus_Cello said:


> what type, crazy Catt lady?


Well of course the feline variety lives here too!


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## Rockbend (Apr 27, 2020)

DrLeslieEe said:


> Interesting. Volonteanums are supposed to come from highlands of Sabah (vs lowlands of Sarawak). Have you tried cooler nights? And different lines of volonteanums as well?


Have tried them from several sources and they all hate my neck of the woods (SE US).


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## Guldal (Apr 29, 2020)

First when rereading the thread, I noticed this exclamation from BrucherT:


BrucherT said:


> I could really use a flower right now.



Thus spoke a true addict - or should one say: a genuine junkie!


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 30, 2020)

Rockbend said:


> Have tried them from several sources and they all hate my neck of the woods (SE US).


It’s really warm there! Maybe stick with the mixture ones lol


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 30, 2020)

Guldal said:


> First when rereading the thread, I noticed this exclamation from BrucherT:
> 
> 
> Thus spoke a true addict - or should one say: a genuine junkie!


We are all junkies in that case, and a bunch of enablers lol. Orchid Anonymous anyone?


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## Guldal (Apr 30, 2020)

I already formed PA - Paphioholic Anonymous.

And got us into WHO's diagnostic manual, ICD-10 ( the former, 2018 rev.):

*F19.2 Other psychoactive substance dependence* - and sometimes with *F19.211 ..... delirium*

”You can get off alcohol, drugs, women, food, and cars, but once you’re hooked on orchids, you’re finished. You never get off orchids…never.”

Joe Kunisch
Commercial orchid grower
Rochester, New York
(cit. Eric Hansen:’ Orchid Fever: A Horticultural Tale of Love, Lust,
and Lunacy’, Pantheon 2000)


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## BrucherT (Apr 30, 2020)

Guldal said:


> First when rereading the thread, I noticed this exclamation from BrucherT:
> 
> 
> Thus spoke a true addict - or should one say: a genuine junkie!


Ha ha and I got my wish! My Mexipedium opened at last!


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## Guldal (Apr 30, 2020)

Mexipedium directly into the vein! 

It's sooooooo cute!


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## SlipperKing (Apr 30, 2020)

You should put you Mexi in the Mexi Thread


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## DrLeslieEe (Apr 30, 2020)

Beautiful Mexi!!


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## masaccio (Dec 8, 2020)

Beautiful flower and informative posts. I have a volonteanum (I gather that hookerae and volonteanum are quite similar but are considered distinct species now(?) that just started to spike about a week and a half ago. I know now that I have quite a wait in front of me.


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 8, 2020)

Thanks! Wishing you luck in getting the bud to bloom nicely. Keep it where it is and try not to move it from the same conditions it budded.


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## Guldal (Dec 8, 2020)

masaccio said:


> .... I gather that hookerae and volonteanum are quite similar but are considered distinct species now[?]


Well, I think, that depends on your position in the ongoing, botanical trench war between 'lumpers' and 'spreaders'. The former would probably see them as two, distinctly separate species in their own right; while the latter would still operate with volonteanum being a variety of hookerae. I don't think, there are conclusive evidence, nor consensus about botanist in favour of either position - so: take your pick!


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## masaccio (Dec 8, 2020)

Yeah, far be it from me to have my own opinion about this. LanceB treats them as separate species. Braem also treats them as separate species last time I checked. Who knows what they've come up with. I admit to having a moment of disbelief when the "powers that be" decided that Sedirea japonica was a Phalaenopsis.


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## Ray (Dec 9, 2020)

I’m up in the air about the lumping and splitting.

If you consider that humans and apes have about 97-98% identical DNA - and we all have met folks that could be in either camp - how reliable are any assessments of synonymy?


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## eds (Dec 9, 2020)

I vary depending on context!

In hobbies I think we should split to the lowest level possible. Many people who will cross very different members of one species wouldn't cross two different species, no matter how similar!

Whereas in the wild I think there is sometimes a tendency to split too far when closely related species are interchanging genetic material still - gulls are a great example of this!


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## Guldal (Dec 9, 2020)

masaccio said:


> LanceB treats them as separate species. Braem also treats them as separate species last time I checked.


Kew on the other hand treats volonteanum as a variety of hookerae.... with Braem (sic!) as their reference: Paphiopedilum hookerae var. volonteanum (Sander ex Rolfe) Braem | Plants of the World Online | Kew Science

Once again: take your pick!


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 9, 2020)

It is without question this dilemma will continue for a long time, depending on which grower or taxonomists you confer with.

Logically, the two share many morphological and phylogenetic traits. And the reasons they are separated are as good a reason why the appletonianum complexes should be separated.

My stance is that they are related and volonteanum is a variety of hookerae. For two reasons:

1. They are found in the same area, separated by elevation (volonteanum occurs in higher elevations). This difference in ecoclines may have dictated minor plant adaptations (such as tanning of leaves to protect against increased sun exposure of volonteanum in the mountains). These adaptations may allow the plant to survive the more extreme weather.

2. The cooler elevation also allows pigments to congregate in higher saturation to evolve darker and intensely colored flowers (in volonteanum). The more colorful flowers may attract the pollinators more, therefore creating more heavily pigmented flowers than lower elevations.

If volonteanum was discovered on another island far far away, then perhaps the argument for a different speciation status is more logical and valid.

My two cents lol.


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## masaccio (Dec 9, 2020)

Well dang!


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 9, 2020)

eds said:


> I vary depending on context!
> 
> In hobbies I think we should split to the lowest level possible. Many people who will cross very different members of one species wouldn't cross two different species, no matter how similar!
> 
> Whereas in the wild I think there is sometimes a tendency to split too far when closely related species are interchanging genetic material still - gulls are a great example of this!


Agreed. The two should be bred separately to maintain the integrity of their types.


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## masaccio (Dec 9, 2020)

Guldal said:


> Kew on the other hand treats volonteanum as a variety of hookerae.... with Braem (sic!) as their reference: Paphiopedilum hookerae var. volonteanum (Sander ex Rolfe) Braem | Plants of the World Online | Kew Science
> 
> Once again: take your pick!



The Braem reference you cited from Kew seems to be from 1988. I'm looking at his 2003 monograph, Paphiopedilum, Braem and Chiron (Preface by Koopowitz). He does state that the differences between the two are very minor, and that he doubts, if botanically, that volonteanum is more than a distinct variety of hookerae. But he does go on to discuss distinct differences.... p.193. My feeling is of yours. Take your pick. It doesn't seem as if his world revolves around this question either.


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