# Judging and staking



## Candace (Dec 12, 2008)

In another thread a member posted this "We seem to have some disagreement about when, or even if, to stake. I remember watching a judge loosen a tie to a stake, and when the flower flopped, she just passed the flower (i.e., chose not to judge or "point" it)."

Can a judge clarify this? I thought it was a big no-no for judges to undo stakes, ties, and/or alter the plant's presentation (except for measurement purposes) after an exhibitor enters an orchid for judging. Maybe I'm wrong?


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## Scooby5757 (Dec 12, 2008)

AOS Judging Handbook....

Section 5.3 - _Plants should be entered in the most presentable condition possible. Pots should be clean or covered, and dead pseudobulbs and leaves removed. Leaves should be cleaned but not treated to produce an artificial shine. Inflorescences may be staked to permit them to appear to best advantage, but staking should be unobtrusive as possible and may be removed temporarily during judging if the judging team feels this is necessary to evaluate the inflorescence. Additional staking or artificial supports may be needed while a plant is being transported but should be removed before the plant is entered._

I'm not a judge, but my take on this is if the judge thought that it was an extremely weak inflorescence that was just being held up by a tight tie, then it would be OK to untie it and pass if it flopped over from being too weak.


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## neo-guy (Dec 12, 2008)

That is correct. A lot depends on what type of Orchid it is as well. For Paphs, we will often remove the stake to see how the inflorescence looks without support. For other genera, we usually just leave as staked. If the plant is staked unobtrusively, I don't usually put too much weight on the point scoring. In most cases the stem is less than 10 points out of 100.

Peter T.


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## Ernie (Dec 12, 2008)

Yep, some of the point scales do account for stem. We commonly undo stakes. 

-Ernie


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## Candace (Dec 12, 2008)

Interesting. I've never seen this. Thanks for the info.


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## emydura (Dec 12, 2008)

That means you would never stake a naturally arching species such as lowii and phillipinense. I tend to train the spike so it is very upright. If you removed the stake the spike would fall forward and all the flowers would be facing the ground. 

David


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## rdlsreno (Dec 13, 2008)

neo-guy said:


> That is correct. A lot depends on what type of Orchid it is as well. For Paphs, we will often remove the stake to see how the inflorescence looks without support. For other genera, we usually just leave as staked. If the plant is staked unobtrusively, I don't usually put too much weight on the point scoring. In most cases the stem is less than 10 points out of 100.
> 
> Peter T.



I agree!!

Ramon


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## Bolero (Dec 13, 2008)

I've seen this happen occasionally. It's not unreasonable for judges to remove it to see how self supporting the spike is.


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## SlipperKing (Dec 13, 2008)

That's why you don't stake until the flower/stem has matured. In most cases, an award quality plant/flower will be able to hold the flower on it's own.


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## biothanasis (Dec 13, 2008)

Interesting!! Thanks for sharing this info about judging! Not that I am going to judge sth...


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## SlipperFan (Dec 13, 2008)

SlipperKing said:


> That's why you don't stake until the flower/stem has matured.


I really think this depends on the kind of orchid it is. I've observed many flowers staked after the flower is open with the result that the flower faces the sky, instead of forward. I don't think this is desirable at all.


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## emydura (Dec 13, 2008)

SlipperFan said:


> I really think this depends on the kind of orchid it is. I've observed many flowers staked after the flower is open with the result that the flower faces the sky, instead of forward. I don't think this is desirable at all.



The trick is not to stake it just before you are going to show it. I find if you stake it 2 or 3 days before, the flower falls back down and sits absolutely perfect. 

If you want your multi-floral spikes upright you need to train the spike beforehand. You can't wait until all the flowers are open. 

David


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## SlipperKing (Dec 17, 2008)

SlipperFan said:


> I really think this depends on the kind of orchid it is. I've observed many flowers staked after the flower is open with the result that the flower faces the sky, instead of forward. I don't think this is desirable at all.


Dot I rarely ever stake my Slippers at any point in the blooming cycle, except to transport. The few non- slipper orchids that I have, the same holds true for them. Rarely ever do I put my plants in a floor display, always a table top so to show off the "naturally held" flowers I use lots of stakes (as lots goes) in the greenhouse to hold up *leaves* that are flopping over.


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## Rick (Dec 17, 2008)

emydura said:


> That means you would never stake a naturally arching species such as lowii and phillipinense. I tend to train the spike so it is very upright. If you removed the stake the spike would fall forward and all the flowers would be facing the ground.
> 
> David



I like the arching spike, but the couple of times I presented a nice arching phili spike for judging I was told I should stake it to get better flower presentation.:sob:


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## emydura (Dec 17, 2008)

Rick said:


> I like the arching spike, but the couple of times I presented a nice arching phili spike for judging I was told I should stake it to get better flower presentation.:sob:



Yes, I do like the arching look as well. Particularly those with long petals. It is just so hard to photograph them well though.

David


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## emydura (Dec 17, 2008)

SlipperKing said:


> Dot I rarely ever stake my Slippers at any point in the blooming cycle, except to transport. The few non- slipper orchids I have the same hold true for them. Rarely ever do I put my plants in a floor display, always a table top so to show off the "naturally held" flowers I use lots of stakes (as lots goes) in the greenhouse to hold up *leaves* that are flopping over.



This may depend on whether you grow your Paphs under lights or in a greenhouse. I grow mine in a greenhouse and find that the spikes arch towards the sun which apart from summer is never directly above. So they are never upright. I have to stake them to achieve this.

David


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## SlipperFan (Dec 17, 2008)

emydura said:


> This may depend on whether you grow your Paphs under lights or in a greenhouse. I grow mine in a greenhouse and find that the spikes arch towards the sun which apart from summer is never directly above. So they are never upright. I have to stake them to achieve this.
> 
> David


I think that's a key consideration. For windowsill growers, spikes hardly ever are upright.


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## SlipperKing (Dec 17, 2008)

emydura said:


> This may depend on whether you grow your Paphs under lights or in a greenhouse. I grow mine in a greenhouse and find that the spikes arch towards the sun which apart from summer is never directly above. So they are never upright. I have to stake them to achieve this.
> 
> David


I too have grown in a greenhouse for the last 25 yrs. The only plant that I had to stake was Phrag Sorcer's Apprentice with it's 6 ft plus spike. Otherwise, I would picking it up off the floor everyday from the air movement in the GH. BTW, the stake is only 2 ft tall.


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## smartie2000 (Dec 17, 2008)

SlipperFan said:


> I think that's a key consideration. For windowsill growers, spikes hardly ever are upright.



I was thinking the same thing. A good spike may appear weak if it flops downward when the stake is removed just because of the direction it was growing in.
So for windowsill growers staking early is a good thing then to prevent a angled spike that is later bent back to the stake (which will be unstaked during judging)?


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## Leo Schordje (Dec 18, 2008)

A good thread. Remeber - AOS judging standards have nothing to do with 'nature' or 'natural' or the real world for that matter. The AOS standard is a man-made artificial construct, and is all about presentation. Like being an Art Crtic, being an AOS Judge is an "Unspeakable Profession". Applying a quantitative system of critiques to living art is, well ............. an unspeakable abomination. 

If you like letting the plants do what comes naturally, nothing wrong with that, there is the possibility it may interfere with getting AOS awards. But not many people really grow for awards. I grow for what I like. Most of us grow for our own tastes, and if we get around to showing a plant, the thought of competing for AOS awards comes as an after-thought. So the sumary would be:

1.) don't stake a spike too soon, a young spike that wants to lean out or seek the light will simply bend or kink above where the stake is. Too early staking makes an awkward stems. Plants that normally have arching stems can be allowed to arch, perhaps the staking needed is just enough down low to lift the flowers so they all open above the plant. 

2.) stake a few days to a week or two before the flower opens, stake so the flower faces out and forward. This is generally the way the judges want to see the flowers. Think in terms of what will make a good photo. Create a visual composition that will have a front and a back. The judges will look at the plant from the front. Thats where the Awards Photo will be taken from. I have overheard this at judging; "Think about the picture it will make" if the plant presented wouldn't make a good photo, in border line cases the plant was passed on.

3.) if you stake after the stem & flower has hardend, the flowers may face in an un-natural pose. They may move some over a few days, but generally once the flower has matured open, the stem and ovary won't bend much. 

4.) always take a little time to groom your plant. Remove dead leaves. Wipe waterspots and salt deposits from leaves with clean damp cloth. If some leaves are disfigured or damaged, - consider removing them. Make the plant look attractive. Wipe the pot clean. Think about the award photo.

Good luck at the next judging.


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## Leo Schordje (Dec 18, 2008)

10 points worth nothing in particular, if you can name the short story I had in mind as I wrote about AOS judging


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## Scooby5757 (Dec 18, 2008)

Tossing my two cents about staking naturally arching spikes like phil or parishii....Whereas some of the multiflorals you can train the stake almost as str8 as an arrow, I agree that there are times where the habit of the plant wants to be more arching. It may not need any staking if the spike are arranged well around the plant....BUT if they are crowded or not arranged in the most pleasing way, (pleasing by AOS judging standard..balance and symmetry in overall presentation) then placing a stake support on the lower 1/4 to 1/3 on the spike might be advantageous. It gives you some wiggle room with being able to move things around, while still keeping the natural arch.


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## SlipperFan (Dec 18, 2008)

Good advice, Leo.

I would add that if we are talking about a "specimen" plant, flowering all around is desirable, not just facing the "front."


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## Wendy (Dec 19, 2008)

When I have a long petaled multi in spike I use wire to stake...that way I can bend the wire to allow the spike to arch, while giving it the support. It helps to make a good final presentation for judging. If a spike is one that should bee vertical I use a wire that only comes 1/3 to 1/2 way up the spike. I don't care much for bamboo/wood stakes myself, mainly because I like to take my plants for showing/judging and the wire makes the presentation more natural looking. It tends to blend in much better than a wood stake. IMHO


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## cnycharles (Dec 19, 2008)

Leo Schordje said:


> 10 points worth nothing in particular, if you can name the short story I had in mind as I wrote about AOS judging



'much ado about nothing'?


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## emydura (Dec 19, 2008)

SlipperFan said:


> Good advice, Leo.
> 
> I would add that if we are talking about a "specimen" plant, flowering all around is desirable, not just facing the "front."



That last point is interesting of which you are correct. I prefer to have all the flowers facing one direction as it is so much more visually pleasing as you can see all the flowers open at once. It really loses its impact if you can only see 2 or 3 flowers opened at a time. But from a judging point you would be penalised for all the flowers facing the same way.

It is like the following Paph I entered in our show. It failed to win best specimen even though it was the only Paph eligible. One of the numerous criticisms from the judges was that it was not flowering around the pot. I deliberately grow it like this as it is the way I like it. I won't be changing anything.

David


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## SlipperFan (Dec 19, 2008)

It makes for a *great* photo!


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## JeanLux (Dec 19, 2008)

SlipperFan said:


> It makes for a *great* photo!



I completely agree!!!! Jean


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## goldenrose (Dec 20, 2008)

OH yeah I forgot, at all orchid shows we can walk around each plant to view it and let's not forget in nature they're on turntables! I'm with you David! Gorgeous!


SlipperFan said:


> It makes for a *great* photo!


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## SlipperKing (Dec 24, 2008)

And I don't see a stake in the pot! Fantastic display brother! This is how I go about it, myself.


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## P-chan (Dec 27, 2008)

David, You're a winner in my book.


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## Yoyo_Jo (Dec 27, 2008)

David, that's a great display! :clap:


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