# Your thoughts on this fertilizer



## Ryno (Mar 15, 2017)

Foxfarm Grow Big Liquid concentrate...

6-4-4
2.9% Ammoniacal Nitrogen, 3.1% Nitrate Nitrogen
4% P
4% K
0.60% Magnesium
0.02% Boron
0.05% Copper, Chelated
0.10% Iron, Chelated
0.05% Manganese, Chelated
0.05% Zinc, Chelated

Derived From: Ammonium Nitrate, Ammonium Phosphate, Potassium Phosphate, Potassium Nitrate, Earthworm Castings, Magnesium Nitrate, Norwegian Kelp, Magnesium Sulfate, Potassium Sulfate, Iron EDTA, Manganese EDTA, Zinc EDTA, Copper EDTA, and Sodium Borate.

My R.O. water is around 20ppm tds.
At a 1/2 teaspoon per gallon, I get 150ppm tds.

Thanks in advance,
Ryan


----------



## JAB (Mar 15, 2017)

Firstly welcome to ST Ryno. If you get the chance introduce yourself in the new members section. 

To answer your question... depends on what you are growing. For tomatoes that works decent. Cannabis, there is better bang for your buck. Orchid wise, there are much better options out there. 

Cheers
JAB


----------



## Ryno (Mar 15, 2017)

Thanks, JAB.

I would mainly like to hear what you all think about the Nitrogen composition, and their ratios. I also plan to supplement with Calcium Nitrate monthly, and Magnesium Sulfate, if you think the Mg level is too low. 

I mainly grow cloud forest orchids of the Pleurothallid alliance and Papua New Guinea Dendrobiums.


----------



## PaphMadMan (Mar 15, 2017)

My views on fertilizer are often seen as heresy. Until you have perfected almost every other aspect of orchid culture, fertilizer will never be the limiting factor to your success if you grow in plant based non-inert media and do use a fertilizer that includes the most important micronutrients, at a reasonable rate. Often less is more. That fertilizer and rate well meets that basic requirement, with the addition of a calcium source.


----------



## abax (Mar 15, 2017)

Welcome to ST from KY Ryno. One of the best fertilizers
I've found over the years is K-Lite from repotme.com.


----------



## Stone (Mar 15, 2017)

I think it's pretty good but I would prefer more ammonium than nitrate for dendrobiums. Just remember, the high altitude ones need very low but constant fert levels. Cal nitrate and Mag sulphate supplements once per month is enough. If it has worm in it, it will have calcium.


----------



## Ryno (Mar 15, 2017)

PaphMadMan said:


> My views on fertilizer are often seen as heresy. Until you have perfected almost every other aspect of orchid culture, fertilizer will never be the limiting factor to your success if you grow in plant based non-inert media and do use a fertilizer that includes the most important micronutrients, at a reasonable rate. Often less is more. That fertilizer and rate well meets that basic requirement, with the addition of a calcium source.



Thanks, Kirk

If all conditions, and factors are met, would you say the limiting factor is fertilizer? I understand the problems associated with organic media, and have recently started experimenting with synthetic "moss".

Ryan


----------



## Ryno (Mar 15, 2017)

abax said:


> Welcome to ST from KY Ryno. One of the best fertilizers
> I've found over the years is K-Lite from repotme.com.


Thanks, abax

I had problems with K-lite and stopped using it. I realize there are a couple different sources for it, and that could be an issue as well. I don't want to start another fire over it, but I have a couple theories as to why people have had problems with it.


----------



## Ryno (Mar 15, 2017)

Stone said:


> I think it's pretty good but I would prefer more ammonium than nitrate for dendrobiums. Just remember, the high altitude ones need very low but constant fert levels. Cal nitrate and Mag sulphate supplements once per month is enough. If it has worm in it, it will have calcium.



Thanks, Mike

I fertilize at the mentioned rate, every time I water, which is just about every day. Do you have a suggestion for Ammonium?


----------



## JAB (Mar 16, 2017)

What were the problems you experienced with K Lite?


----------



## Ray (Mar 16, 2017)

abax said:


> Welcome to ST from KY Ryno. One of the best fertilizers
> I've found over the years is K-Lite from repotme.com.





Shame on you, Angela, for doing business with them. RepotMe sells K-Lite for $10.85 for 8 ounces.

Kelley's Korner sells one pound (twice as much) for $8.95.


----------



## abax (Mar 16, 2017)

I haven't bought any from repotme I promise. Just the first source that popped into my head. I'll order from
Kelly's when I need more. I hope you're enjoying your
new life!


----------



## h_mossy (Apr 7, 2017)

Ryno said:


> Thanks, JAB.
> 
> I would mainly like to hear what you all think about the Nitrogen composition, and their ratios. I also plan to supplement with Calcium Nitrate monthly, and Magnesium Sulfate, if you think the Mg level is too low.
> 
> I mainly grow cloud forest orchids of the Pleurothallid alliance and Papua New Guinea Dendrobiums.


An old timer told me that regarding nitrogen, what ever number is shown (12 5 15) you want at least half of that to be readily usable for the plant. In this case you would want at least 6% (half of the 12) to be in the nitrate form so it is available for root uptake. He told me that if you fertilize your lawn or a potted plant, the urea or ammonia will be in the mix longer and can eventually be broken down by microbes to the nitrate form, which is then used by the plants. For orchids however, with the more open mix so excess moisture can run off quickly, the urea or ammonia would not be in the right form for the plant to be able to use it readily. So, for a more open type of mix, you need a higher percentage of the nitrate form. It will usually tell you in the small print what percentage is urea or ammonia or nitrate form. He also told me that potting mixes that use bark also need a higher amount of nitrogen, but I'm not sure why.


----------



## Ray (Apr 7, 2017)

I suspect that all of the K-Lite out there originates with Greencare. The sales volume probably doesn't warrant multiple manufacturers.


----------



## Stone (Apr 9, 2017)

h_mossy said:


> An old timer told me that regarding nitrogen, what ever number is shown (12 5 15) you want at least half of that to be readily usable for the plant. In this case you would want at least 6% (half of the 12) to be in the nitrate form so it is available for root uptake. He told me that if you fertilize your lawn or a potted plant, the urea or ammonia will be in the mix longer and can eventually be broken down by microbes to the nitrate form, which is then used by the plants. For orchids however, with the more open mix so excess moisture can run off quickly, the urea or ammonia would not be in the right form for the plant to be able to use it readily. So, for a more open type of mix, you need a higher percentage of the nitrate form. It will usually tell you in the small print what percentage is urea or ammonia or nitrate form. He also told me that potting mixes that use bark also need a higher amount of nitrogen, but I'm not sure why.



Orchids can use ammonium, nitrate, urea, and organic nitrogen. Urea turns into ammonium in 2 days but orchids can still take it up in Urea form. The ammonium will get converted to nitrate in a neutral pH but orchids can take up ammonium before that happens as well. Nitrate is lost from leaching more readily than ammonium because most sites in the p/mix and negatively charged and so is nitrate. Orchids in bark needs extra N because microbes will rob N to break down the bark so you need enough for them _and_ the orchid. Many good growers never even use nitrate in their feed.
I can't remember exactly but I think ammonium takes more energy to take up but is then readily useable by the plant whereas nitrate is taken up more readily but needs converting back to ammonium before being used. Someone will know.


----------

