# first blooms misshaped



## troy (Sep 14, 2014)

On three of my plants 1 haynaldianum 2 shun fa golden x roth 3 vanda m pearman first blooms all messed up anybody know why or what causes that?


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## SlipperFan (Sep 14, 2014)

Seems to happen a lot on first blooms.


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## troy (Sep 14, 2014)

Thats common?


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## likespaphs (Sep 15, 2014)

how were they misshapen?
can you post a photo?


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## troy (Sep 15, 2014)

I have a haynaldianum with the 1st flower bottom of pouch pushed up the 3rd pouch totally mangled took it off and the fourth it's opening now looks the same as the third. I have a vanda m pearman pouch was twisted with staminode twisted, dorsel and lateral sepal was fine, I took it off and threw it away. The first of three shun fa golden x roth blooms twisted pouch one leaf a little higher than the other I took it off the other 2 seem fine


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## troy (Sep 15, 2014)




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## troy (Sep 15, 2014)

The fourth pic is a vanda m pearman I got mad picked off the flower and ate it uuugghhh, will the little pookey still there develop?


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## SlipperFan (Sep 15, 2014)

I think you are worrying before the flower opens fully.


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## troy (Sep 16, 2014)

They were half opened twisted so I pulled them off. They all kind of had the same problem, I guess thats common


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## fibre (Sep 16, 2014)

Did you use any pesticide? Some cause this kind damage.


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## troy (Sep 16, 2014)

No, the growers I got them from might have, they are all fairly big growers, huh, so I'll just have to wait till they bloom agian. The top two pics. Of the shun fa look ok, it was just the first flower on that one I hope


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## likespaphs (Sep 16, 2014)

i'm confused
did you remove the flowers before they fully opened or are you looking at the buds and see them as misshappen?
they do all sorts of weird moving and twisting before they are fully opened


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## NYEric (Sep 16, 2014)

that's true, they looked OK to me, just going thru the processes. I am no expert though, I just blasted my micranthum v. Eburneum and a niveum!!


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## troy (Sep 16, 2014)

On my vanda m pearman the staminode was sticking out the side of the bud where the petal should have been close to opening so I pulled it off it was missing part of the pouch and the whole flower was twisted in the almost opening bud the first of the three shun fa was close to that the petals were askew and the staminode was higher on one side but not sideways the haynaldianum I took pictures of you could see that one. I have a formosa lady going into bloom a psyche going into bloom and a harold koopowitz possibly more I want to stop this trend!! Of messed up blooms


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## troy (Sep 16, 2014)

Formosa lady x glanduliferum


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## SlipperFan (Sep 16, 2014)

I still say, let them open. Then make the judgement.


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## troy (Sep 16, 2014)

I will now ugghh


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## chrismende (Sep 17, 2014)

Frustrating, though, Troy! I agree with Dot that you should let them fully open before judging. Malformed blooms usually aren't a permanent feature of the plant, though. It can happen once and never again.


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## bullsie (Sep 17, 2014)

It is amazing the gyrations a bloom will take before it fully unfurls to what it should look like. Sometimes one portion will begin to grow quickly making the bud look all askew - you see this in Phrags and wonder how that bent up whisker sticking out will ever be a long hanging tendril. Other parts will grow slower. 

I think you need to let your plants go through their normal flower growth and complete opening - which takes time and can look strange even at first unfurl - before making decisions. I know, we all get anxious to see them open. Got to have patience!


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## likespaphs (Sep 17, 2014)

what is your light source?
do you change how they face the light?
they are phototropic (grow towards the light) and if they are moved, the inflorescence (flower stalk) and/or the buds can bend towards the light and cause misshapen flowers


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## Justin (Sep 17, 2014)

it helps if you don't eat the developing buds


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## troy (Sep 17, 2014)

I always leave them in the same place during flowering


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## NYEric (Sep 17, 2014)

Justin said:


> it helps if you don't eat the developing buds



Amazing how we influence other folks! :evil:


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## troy (Sep 17, 2014)

Lol.. I know well have you guys seen a completely sideways staminode with offset petals go correct after blooming


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## chris20 (Sep 17, 2014)

That happened to one of my Paphs once--next blooming was ok. Attributed it to change of conditions when I bought the plant and brought it home.


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## troy (Sep 17, 2014)

That was my guess, the plants are very healthy, uugghh I wanted a bloom :-(


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## Happypaphy7 (Oct 3, 2014)

Well, given the description, I would have been frustrated too. 

By the way, what happened to the bud(s) on Shun Fa Golden X Roth hybrid??
I would love to see how it turns out! The spike is so very short.

For hybrids mixing multi and brachy or parvy, there are many problems.
One, many do not ever bloom. just grow and grow. 
Two, often, flowers are badly crippled. 
So keep those in mind. but when they are good, they are good.


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## troy (Oct 3, 2014)

I posted the shun fa golden x roth bloom, 1 bloomed out very nice , one was messed up one blasted, I had a wossner butterfly blast I repotted it, it had 2 new large roots with large growing tips and all the other roots were good had a vanda m pearman bloom messed up I'm gonna check the roots tomorrow. could temp infrequncy and light infrequency mess up blooms?


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## NYEric (Oct 3, 2014)

Not usually blast them but slow them up from opening.


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## Leo Schordje (Oct 7, 2014)

If you allow the plants to get too dry between watering while in bud, this alone can cause miss shaped flowers. Repotting while in bud can have the same effect. 

Too cool, even for a few hours can cause bud drop (by cool I mean below 50 F or 10 C) 

Pesticides can cause deformities

Mechanical damage, bumping & rubbing perhaps in shipping, or fingers manipulating a flower can cause deformities. 

Excessively low humidity, below 40% relative can cause the flower to have difficulties opening well. 

Normally the flower parts are all collapsed and compressed inside the bud, The dent in the haynaldianum pouch is normal to see in a flower that hasn't had time to expand. They need to open fully, before you make judgement. I don't make any decisions on good, bad or whatever until the flower has been open for a week. Phrag flowers will continually expand right up to the day they drop, so even judging size depends on how long it was open. With Paph micranthum and many of the other parvi types, the angle of the pouch doesn't set to the final position until after they are open 5 to 7 days. 

Some complex hybrid flowers - standard complexes and pari-multifloral hybrids regularly bloom with crippled flowers, maybe 3 out of 5 bloom cycles will have issues. But when they do open up without crippling, they truly are magnificent. Well worth the bench space. If the colors of a complex appeal to me, I let it bloom at least 3 times to decide whether it is a "keeper" or one for the compost heap. There is a reason awarded complex Paphs are so expensive, getting one into show condition to get the award is a long term project, rarely will the first bloom be anywhere near the full potential of the flower. 

Hope these thoughts help.


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