# Paph leucochilum



## paphreek (Jul 29, 2008)

This one and one other were too slow to make the other thread http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8412 , so I thought I'd start a new one.

Paph leucochilum 'FV'


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## Heather (Jul 29, 2008)

Beautiful! Still my favorite brachy.


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## paphioboy (Jul 29, 2008)

Very nice leuco...


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## SlipperFan (Jul 29, 2008)

That's a beauty

I don't think there's a time limit to threads, though.


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## Candace (Jul 29, 2008)

Nice photo, too.


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## JeanLux (Jul 30, 2008)

I like it a lot, and fine pict.!!! Jean


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## John M (Jul 30, 2008)

Bravo!


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## Yoyo_Jo (Jul 30, 2008)

Lovely bloom, and that _is_ a great photo. :clap:


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## Elena (Jul 30, 2008)

What a beauty! Very nice.


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## Sangii (Jul 30, 2008)

beautiful; how big is the flower ?


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## goldenrose (Jul 30, 2008)

:drool: Everything is quite lovely - the plant, the flower, the photo! :clap:


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## paphreek (Jul 30, 2008)

Sangii said:


> beautiful; how big is the flower ?



It is not a large flower. Approximate measurements:
Total width: 7.5cm
Dorsal width:5cm
height: 7cm


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## jblanford (Jul 30, 2008)

That really looks great Ross as always. Thanks.


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## rdlsreno (Jul 31, 2008)

Very nice!!!!! I like the flatness of the flower. Here are two first bloomers and I got both at the last WOC. I hope they get flatter next time it flowers. I find them to cuppy. It is funny that the color of the staminode is different from both flowers. Could it be the album is an anthong?


Ramon

Paph. godefroyae var. album





Paph. godefroyae var. leuchochilum





side by side


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## Heather (Jul 31, 2008)

You guys are REALLY making me want to try one of these! Ack!!!


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## toddybear (Jul 31, 2008)

WOW! That is stunning!


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## SlipperKing (Jul 31, 2008)

WOW Ramon, I think you are on to something here with the identity of the album. The green staminode, I have not seen in a godefroyae that I can remember.


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## goldenrose (Jul 31, 2008)

:drool: :drool: WOW - both lovely! Is the picture decieving? (looks like the godefroyae is pretty flat now!)


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## SlipperFan (Jul 31, 2008)

Wonderful flowers!


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## Bob in Albany N.Y. (Jul 31, 2008)

Ramon, Are you telling me I missed the Paph. godefroyae var. album at the WOC? For sure a couple of those would have come home with me. You know how it is, those things just jump into your suitcase.


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## Scooby5757 (Jul 31, 2008)

Here is a pic of my godefroyae blooming last fall, it had the green in the staminode...







I happen to be looking at older photos last night and happened to rediscover the green, then I found this post today.


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## Heather (Jul 31, 2008)

Ross, let me know if you every wish to unload anything in this realm, please?


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## paphreek (Jul 31, 2008)

Heather said:


> Ross, let me know if you every wish to unload anything in this realm, please?



I will, Heather, but as I said before, this species has not done well from flask for me, so I have been buying large seedlings and adult plants when possible. Unfortunately, the ones with quality flowers I intend to keep for breeding.


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## SlipperKing (Aug 1, 2008)

Anyone else out there have godefroyae with green in the staminode?


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## rdlsreno (Aug 1, 2008)

Bob in Albany said:


> Ramon, Are you telling me I missed the Paph. godefroyae var. album at the WOC? For sure a couple of those would have come home with me. You know how it is, those things just jump into your suitcase.



Yes Bob, In-Charm where selling them.


Ramon


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## paphioboy (Aug 1, 2008)

Ramon, could your 'godefroyae album' in fact be a hybrid with thaianum..? As far as I recall, all the thaianum pics which I've seen have green staminodes...


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## SlipperKing (Aug 2, 2008)

paphioboy said:


> Ramon, could your 'godefroyae album' in fact be a hybrid with thaianum..? As far as I recall, all the thaianum pics which I've seen have green staminodes...


I have the same thoughts....the stami is just too green


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## rdlsreno (Aug 2, 2008)

SlipperKing said:


> I have the same thoughts....the stami is just too green



I hope it is a pure breed Paph. thaianum!!!!!!! (Wishful thinking)


Ramon


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## Roy (Aug 3, 2008)

rdlsreno said:


> I hope it is a pure breed Paph. thaianum!!!!!!! (Wishful thinking)
> 
> 
> Ramon



Ramon, what size was the flower??? thaianum is only tiny ( from memory )


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## SlipperKing (Aug 3, 2008)

rdlsreno said:


> I hope it is a pure breed Paph. thaianum!!!!!!! (Wishful thinking)
> 
> 
> Ramon


I'll be wishing for you too Ramon!!


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## rdlsreno (Aug 3, 2008)

Roy said:


> Ramon, what size was the flower??? thaianum is only tiny ( from memory )



The flower is big for a Paph. thaianum about 6. cm.

Ramon


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## likespaphs (Aug 3, 2008)

now i'm confused. i thought ang-thong was a variety of nivieum whereas leucochilium was a variety of godfroyae


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## Roy (Aug 3, 2008)

Not totally confused. P. ang-thong is a natural hybrid ( niveum x godefroyae )( as Greyi is the man made version ) and leucochilum IS a variety of godefroyae.


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## Corbin (Aug 3, 2008)

I want a white Paph. but all of the species/ hybrids I have seen always seem have some color to them either as dots or as an over all faint color. Your Paph. godefroyae var. album is the purest white I have seen. It is simply beautiful. Is this purity of color typical? Are there other "pure" white Paphs that I have not found?


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## paphioboy (Aug 3, 2008)

> I want a white Paph. but all of the species/ hybrids I have seen always seem have some color to them either as dots or as an over all faint color. Your Paph. godefroyae var. album is the purest white I have seen. It is simply beautiful. Is this purity of color typical? Are there other "pure" white Paphs that I have not found?



Corbin, I think this one, bellatulum album and angthong alba are the purest white you're gonna get...  oke:


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## Kevin (Aug 4, 2008)

Very excellent photo and plant!



Roy said:


> Not totally confused. P. ang-thong is a natural hybrid ( niveum x godefroyae )( as Greyi is the man made version ) and leucochilum IS a variety of godefroyae.



Not to start a taxonomy discussion here, but this confuses me a bit. Wouldn't it be easier to call a cross the same name, no matter how it was made (either naturally or man-made)? Does this happen with all man-made natural crosses?


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## Roy (Aug 4, 2008)

This is a mine field you are now entering. Occasionally it does happen, BUT, the biggest problem is Hybridists using the WRONG names.
An example, Paph Conco-bellatulum is a man made hybrid between concolor and bellatulum, simple enough. A collection of Paphs from China formally know as Conco-bellatulum, Natural hybrid, was described as a NEW species called 
P. wenshanense. Fair enough, BUT, hybridist are now using the man made Conco-bellatulums in breeding and SELLING them as P. wenshanense the species as a parent which is totally false and misleading. If in fact P. wenshanense is a Conco-bellatulum, Nat' Hyb' then both should have the one name, which ever one. In reality, you are dealing with a problem that many or most are walking away from. 
Its a "buyer beware" situation and/or trust in the retailer of the plants. In many cases they are in the same situation.


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## Kevin (Aug 5, 2008)

I know it's a mine field, which is why I was hesitant to say anything. What I was getting at, was, if I, or anyone else, was to make a cross of a natural hybrid, what would it be called? I'll use an example of a plant I actually have - Catt. x guatemalensis (skinneri x aurantiaca). As far as I know, there is no cultivated name for this one. Does it depend on if the cultivated hybrid was made before the natural hybrid was found in the wild? Take the example of Paph. ang-thong - if it is man-made, it is called Greyi, but if it is found in the wild, it's ang-thong?!?! Well, this is a discussion for another thread, and probalby could go on forever, just like the Phrag. caudatum/wallissi/warscewiczianum/ etc. discussion! :crazy:


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## Roy (Aug 6, 2008)

Kevin, I believe that which ever plant is named 1st, nat hyb or man made it should have the same name. I think there is a thread for a new Paph from Olaf Gruss. I think it is emersonii x micranthum. Man made = Lola Bird. Nat Hyb,= x glanzii 
I don't think we will have any stability with orchid names/naming till the people who have the power to rectify it get the guts to do something about it.


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## labskaus (Aug 7, 2008)

SlipperKing said:


> Anyone else out there have godefroyae with green in the staminode?



I've seen a batch of those in flower yesterday, some but not all had this small green notch on the staminode. The plants were raised in Thailand.

Best wishes, Carsten


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## GuRu (Aug 7, 2008)

SlipperKing said:


> Anyone else out there have godefroyae with green in the staminode?



Here's a photo of my Paph. godefroyae var. leucochilum and it's got also the green markings on it's staminode. I like these green markings very much. 
Unfortunately the photo was shot already in 09/2006.







Best regards from Germany, rudolf


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## SlipperKing (Aug 7, 2008)

Thanks for your input guys on the green veins and staminodes. Most interesting, this variablitiy.:wink:


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## NYEric (Aug 7, 2008)

I would think the green would be a distinguishing feature of a separate species!


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## SlipperKing (Aug 7, 2008)

I would think so too Eric. But apparently not, unless there's a lot of muddy hybridizing going on to cause this


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## NYEric (Aug 7, 2008)

Absolutely. If one of the taxonomist had gotten one with and one without the green 5 years ago, I'm sure they would be distinct species now.


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## SlipperFan (Aug 7, 2008)

Beautiful flower and photo.


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## SlipperKing (Aug 8, 2008)

NYEric said:


> Absolutely. If one of the taxonomist had gotten one with and one without the green 5 years ago, I'm sure they would be distinct species now.


Have you notice Eric, not one taxonomist has qued in on this discussion. Why is that? Maybe there is nothing to discuss!


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## Lance Birk (Aug 8, 2008)

I can't see how anyone viewing this forum could have any trust in any of the SE Asian brachypetalums. They are so cross-bred and so in-bred that there can never be any assurance as to just exactly what they truly are.

Besides nearly everyone calling P. godefroye and P. leucochilum the same thing, it just makes one wonder.........

And don't ask a taxonomist, they're more confused than many of you.


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## NYEric (Aug 8, 2008)

"Of course we're enthused! :crazy:"-_orchid taxonomist._


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## SlipperKing (Aug 9, 2008)

Lance Birk said:


> I can't see how anyone viewing this forum could have any trust in any of the SE Asian brachypetalums. They are so cross-bred and so in-bred that there can never be any assurance as to just exactly what they truly are.
> 
> Besides nearly everyone calling P. godefroye and P. leucochilum the same thing, it just makes one wonder.........
> 
> And don't ask a taxonomist, they're more confused than many of you.


Lance,
You're reading my mind, but I was too confused to say it!! Thank you


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## Roy (Aug 11, 2008)

rdlsreno said:


> I hope it is a pure breed Paph. thaianum!!!!!!! (Wishful thinking)
> 
> 
> Ramon



Ramon, just looking thru the In-Charm Orchids website, very interesting pics.
They show in the Parvi, Brachy album....godefroyae fma album and in brackets, godefroyae x ang-thong. 2 or 3 pics, WITH the distinct green stami. 
There are 2 pics in the Species album with the same names, one with a green stami and 1 yellow. It might be worth a look your self, it might help clarify the name of your white one.


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## SlipperKing (Aug 11, 2008)

Roy said:


> Ramon, just looking thru the In-Charm Orchids website, very interesting pics.
> They show in the Parvi, Brachy album....godefroyae fma album and in brackets, godefroyae x ang-thong. 2 or 3 pics, WITH the distinct green stami.
> There are 2 pics in the Species album with the same names, one with a green stami and 1 yellow. It might be worth a look your self, it might help clarify the name of your white one.


Roy and Ramon,
I looked at the site. In-Charm is listing ang-thong as a species and godefroyae as another species in their "species photo album" Then in their "Brachy hybrid photo album" they show godefroyae var album (godefroyae "crossed by" ang-thong). One note of interest, in their species photos I saw only one plant that might have green veining but the staminode was not fully visable, all others where yellow or plain white w/spots.


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## NYEric (Aug 11, 2008)

Typical taxonomist answer, _"Well, there was a fulll moon 3 days ago so I decided to name it a new species." _oke:


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## Lance Birk (Aug 11, 2008)

P. godefroyae and the plants known in the trade as "P. ang thong" both occur on the eastern side of Thailand in the Gulf of Siam, near and around the Chumphon/Ko Samui region. While there are no paphs found on Koh Ang Thong itself, all these types of plants can be found in variations on particular kinds of limestone islands in the area.

While the plants we recognize as P. ang thong come mostly from the small archipelage of Chumphon, P. godefroyae can be seen from a much wider area around the same side of the gulf. I have named both types as P. godefroyae in my grower's manual based on the present state of their morphology.

I never saw a green spot on the staminode of any of these wild-collected brachypetalums, including staminodes on P. leucochilum from the gulf of Krabi.


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## GuRu (Aug 11, 2008)

Lance Birk said:


> ....I never saw a green spot on the staminode of any of these wild-collected brachypetalums, including staminodes on P. leucochilum from the gulf of Krabi.



Lance, but there are obviously some P. leucochilum out there with the green markings on the staminode both in Europe and in North America. 
Please have a look at Stephens site http://www.slipperorchids.info/paphspecies/index.html and look at the image of my P. leucochilum in this thread. I'm convinced they come from different sources, breeders or vendors.

Best regards from Germany, rudolf


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## Lance Birk (Aug 11, 2008)

GuRu,

I don't dispute the fact that green staminodes are sometimes exhibited on Brachypetalum flowers. I don't even dispute the possibility of them appearing on some collected species.

My contention is, I suspect the ones we see in captivity have most likely had their genetics tampered with by some enterprising human.

The big problem is, we will never know for sure.

LB


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## paphreek (Aug 17, 2008)

Here's another Paph leucochilum that just opened.


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## SlipperKing (Aug 18, 2008)

One sweet Paph leucochilum! (w/o green too) Most interesting thread about Brachys


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## Paul (Aug 18, 2008)

wow wow wow!! wonderful one!!!


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## SlipperFan (Aug 18, 2008)

Paul said:


> wow wow wow!! wonderful one!!!


I agree!


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## rdlsreno (Aug 18, 2008)

Pretty color!!!


Ramon


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## Yoyo_Jo (Aug 18, 2008)

awesome!


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