# pricing phrags



## philoserenus (Mar 13, 2008)

ok i have absolutely no clue where i am to place this questions, so i'll just put it here for now, and if itz moved by the mods, thatz ok too

my questions is about the pricing of phrags. im surfing through one of the canadian vendors, Paramount Orchids. and i see that the pricing for fs phrag species/hybrid has quite a large range from about $28-$65. 

i know pricing generally within a species/hybrid can be based on size, but can anyone enlighten me as to y the huge difference between the species/hybrids. is it due to the rate of maturity, popularity, rarity/scarcity, etc.?


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## Roy (Mar 14, 2008)

Could be supply and demand or just a pure rip off.


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## smartie2000 (Mar 14, 2008)

I think they base it on maturity and popularity. Or it might just be a marketing strategy of some sort. Their $65 sorcerer's apprentice have been in the catalogue for a while, so I supect they are huge plants now and maybe price that way, though I am not certain. I think these questions are better directed to the vendor as I am making assumptions

I personally find it not convenient for the shopping for plants to separate them into their own species page. I know they have a few species nuts in the local society though. Either they have species like besseae more expensive because they are harder to raise from flask or they are taking advantage of species nuts. I know "Wings of Fire" x self has been in their catalogue for a while, since they were seedling size (and lower priced then)

When I look at Cloud's catalogue I notice that their prices are based on genetics or which plants will be the potential award winners (and then there are a few plants where they make little profit but attract people to put orders). I am not sure how paramount bases their price, though some well bred plants are listed higher in price even for paramount.


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## philoserenus (Mar 14, 2008)

hmm thatz interesting... seems like the basis of pricing can be quite subjective then... rather than objective... let see wat else others have to say. thx roy and fren


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## Jorch (Mar 14, 2008)

I agree with Fren.. for Paramount, I think they base their price on the maturity of the plant. The plants I got from them at the lower price end tends to be medium size seedlings, where as the more expensive ones are often in bud/blooming size or multi-growth plants.


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## Ernie (Mar 14, 2008)

There are a ton of factors that contribute to plant pricing. Cross productivity- sometimes a pod gives little viable seed; supply and demand; rarity; quality of parents; award potential; previous awards to cross; awards to siblings from the same pod; time from flask to blooming (more handling ie. repotting and water over the years means more behind the scenes cost); plant size; pot size (but plant size is a better gauge); etc. 

-Ernie


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## slippertalker (Mar 14, 2008)

I agree with Ernie and would add that if the vendor purchased the flasks from another party (for example Phrag kovachii) that will add to the expense. In the end it is supply and demand; how many plants do they have and what are you willing to pay.


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## SlipperFan (Mar 14, 2008)

I agree with Ernie that one of the biggest factors is how long it takes a plant to mature. Remember that the growers are feeding, watering, keeping warm/cool, giving light to plants the whole time they are under their care. This costs money, so the longer it takes to grow them up, the pricier they are. Some slippers take many years of growing before they are blooming size. Even if the retailer only has them for a year, someone (a wholesaler) grew them for a long time before setting the price to the retailer.


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## philoserenus (Mar 14, 2008)

thanks guys, this is really interesting to learn. i guess that means if i was to be buying over the net at Paramount, i should really inquire into the quality of the plant vs the price im paying for eh?


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## Kyle (Mar 14, 2008)

Theres a guy in Canada, JP Faust, that has the best selection of phrags, and sells them at very fair prices. He does lots of his own breeding and has many unique cross that are only available from him. PM if you want his email and his last list (from last spring - he should have an new list in a month or so).

I got my first plants from Paramount last month at the edmonton show. I was very impresses. They don't do much, if any, of thier own breeding, they get lots of plants from Europe. Nothing wrong with that. They have an excellent selection and the plants were well grown. The bring in lots of interesting species and hybrids. I suspect that the prices for the phrags have to do with the what they paid and the amount of room (bench space) they take up. Remember you can fit 4-6 paph in the same space a sorcerers apprentice takes up. 

Paramount are an asset to the Canadian orchid growing community and I encourage you to support them.

Kyle


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## Phrag-Plus (Mar 14, 2008)

*Pricing the Phrags:*

Some of my crosses gave me 1, 2, 10 or thousand of seedlings.....

Some other like the long petals, the seed pod need to ripe on the plant and some take 9 to 18 months before to ripe... Besseae and some other species hybrids 2 months and you’ve got the seeds ready....

Some seeds are germinated in a week or two some other crosses show their first protocormes after 9 to 12 months.....

Some crosses are ready to be out of flasks after 3 or 4 months some others need to be repleate 2 times and stay in flasks for a year and more....

Some are getting blooming size in a season of growing some other to get the same stage needs 5 years.... 
It is that why a little plant could be more expensive than a large one...

Those situations could influence the pricing of a cross... It is always depend on the genetic....

Hope it help...

Jean-Pierre


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## NYEric (Mar 14, 2008)

Hi JP, welcome from NYC!  Or South Carolina as it were. 
The difficulty in obtaining and growing the plant are factors, genetics in either parentage or ploidy are factors, size and the number of growths, etc. I was by H.P. Norton's yesterday, but I'm on the worlds slowest computer so I'll post new and fotos on Monday.


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## Yoyo_Jo (Mar 14, 2008)

Paramount Orchids is practically a neighbor of mine; I only discovered them about a year ago and I think since then I've bought more than 20 orchids from them. They are marvelous guys, very generous with their time, and happy to answer my newbie questions - I email them with all sorts of orchid questions and they always get back to me. They also stand by their orchids; I took a Phalaeonopsis back to them after six months to ask them what was wrong with it (fungal issue); they tossed it and gave me a brand new one, in spike. When I go there to buy plants, if I haven't picked out what they consider the best one, they will show me the best one and tell me why it is the best. Ok, I'm kind of raving now. I'll stop. :rollhappy:

Joanne


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## Yoyo_Jo (Mar 15, 2008)

*Phrag. Eric Young*

I picked this guy up from Paramount Orchids when I was at the orchid show in Edmonton in February. It seems to be growing in rocks, which freaks me out a bit, but it seems very happy. There's even a new growth that has emerged since I brought it home. I paid $36 for this plant. 







Closer picture of bud:





New growth:


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## philoserenus (Mar 15, 2008)

thanks yoyo for the pic. it really helps to actually have an idea of wat im going to be paying for. that a 3", 4" pot? and i guess rocks are ok too, just u're gonna hafta flush very often unless it in itself doesnt contain water soluble minerals, then u're fine.


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## Kyle (Mar 15, 2008)

The rocks are diatomite. They hold water.

Kyle


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## Yoyo_Jo (Mar 15, 2008)

Thanks Kyle, that's good to know; I'm visiting Paramount tomorrow and I was going to ask them what they were.

Philo - the pot is a 4" pot. For reference, the leaves are about 9" long by about 1" wide. From the base of the plant (not the base of the pot) to the top of the spike is about 9". 

Joanne


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## Jorch (Mar 16, 2008)

Speaking of Diatomite, anyone know where I can order it in Canada? I can only find US websites and the shipping is just terribly expensive...


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## Kyle (Mar 16, 2008)

Jorch, I think there is a place in Ontario. But thats so far from you, it might as well be in the US. If you would like I can look up the link.

Kyle


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## Jorch (Mar 16, 2008)

Thanks Kyle, it'd be great if you can find the link.

I looked at a place in US just now, and the shipping is 40 USD. A lot more expensive than the medium itself. :sob:


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## Candace (Mar 16, 2008)

> I looked at a place in US just now, and the shipping is 40 USD. A lot more expensive than the medium itself.



Buying leca and having it shipped, is the same thing. I feel your pain, but it's worth it!


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## philoserenus (Mar 16, 2008)

haha, i guess we all hafta find ways to improvise in times of need, rite? haha, example, pa here is impossible to come across and shipping rocks aint my idea of good financial practice, haha. so i resort to the lesser hydroton, but thatz ok, it lets me water and tend to my plants more often ^^

PS: thanks kyle for the email. does he ship or pickup only?


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## Kyle (Mar 16, 2008)

He does ship. Jorch, I'll get you the address later today.

Kyle


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## Kyle (Mar 16, 2008)

Jorch,
Heres one:

http://www.ontariogrowerssupply.com...ng Media, Amendments and Conditioners&SID=278

This place probably won't sell to you, but you can call them and find out who they've distributed the stuff to. They're in BC.

http://www.getgreenstar.com/garden/product.aspx?subcat=2&id=202

Heres another one of interest:

http://www.diatomitecanada.com/

Jorch, are you going to the Vancouver Orchid Fest at the end of the month? If so PM me, I have a favor to ask.

Kyle


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## Jorch (Mar 16, 2008)

Thanks Kyle! PM'd you too


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