# ORSV on C. Lawless Walkiire ‘The Ultimate



## southernbelle (Dec 27, 2020)

I purchased this Sept of 2019 in beautiful, fragrant bloom. It bloomed again (only 2 flowers, same pseudobulb) a couple of months ago with the flowers facing each other, but normal looking. It just bloomed again, with 2 flowers that were going to be facing each other but I coaxed them into position. When flowers opened I noticed color break and strongly suspected ORSV. I had more test kits ordered so had to wait, but tested today and sadly, I was right.
So far I’ve tested 34 and have had 10 positives. Not good odds but I’m testing any that I suspect first (or new acquisitions) so hoping those odds will improve. 5 CymMV, 5 ORSV (1 with both) first photo in July, second today!


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## Djthomp28 (Dec 27, 2020)

Sorry to hear that. It is a lovely flower. I tested most of my Lycastes and 17 out of 40 were virus. 39 CymMV and 1 ORSV. Most were from very reputable places. I have since learned Lycastes are as bad as Cattleyas when it comes to virus susceptibility.

SB was the one above a division or seedling when you purchased it?


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## SouthPark (Dec 27, 2020)

SB ------ the second photo ----- is that a pic toward end of flowering? Looks like fungal ....... the browny bits that is. Or just tail end of flowering stage. The colour and flower in the first pic is incredibly beautiful.

Did you apply a noise reduction photo edit feature on the first pic? Noise reduction removes features of the petals etc.


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## southernbelle (Dec 27, 2020)

Djthomp28 said:


> Sorry to hear that. It is a lovely flower. I tested most of my Lycastes and 17 out of 40 were virus. 39 CymMV and 1 ORSV. Most were from very reputable places. I have since learned Lycastes are as bad as Cattleyas when it comes to virus susceptibility.
> 
> SB was the one above a division or seedling when you purchased it?


Darlene, not labeled on the tag — no vendor ID code (and at that point I didn’t know enough to ask). So, not a division. I think a clone because it was a nice plant in a 5” pot with 4 blooms when I bought it.


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## southernbelle (Dec 27, 2020)

SouthPark said:


> SB ------ the second photo ----- is that a pic toward end of flowering? Looks like fungal ....... the browny bits that is. Or just tail end of flowering stage. The colour and flower in the first pic is incredibly beautiful.


SouthPark, good eye, bad photo. Near end of flower (because I’ve been waiting on the delivery of more test kits), but in actuality no browning. Yep, that first photo is why I bought it. I bought it in bloom in Sept 2019 (grown farther north). It bloomed for me (first photo 7/20). And again now. May be worth trying another of this cultivar.


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## SouthPark (Dec 27, 2020)

Hope you can get another plant - same cultivar - just like that one. The flower is very very beautiful. Fantastic colour and shapes. The large lip and the very royal looking and velvety texture/colour. Very nice.


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## Ozpaph (Dec 27, 2020)

bad luck.


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## Happypaphy7 (Dec 28, 2020)

This is a mericlone out of Hawaii. I think Kawamoto Orchids exclusive as they used to sell this a lot on eBay. I bought one back in 2009. The flowers are huge and fragrant. Gorgeous color!! Mine never had issues and I never tested, but who knows? 
Just to be clear, I'm not saying the named vendor is selling virused stock, but just pointing out that that's the originator as long as I remember. 
If you bought it from a different nursery, it is of course very much possible that the original plant was free of virus but was infected at that particular nursery due to improper handling or whatever else that might have transferred the virus to the plant(s).


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## southernbelle (Dec 28, 2020)

Happypaphy7 said:


> This is a mericlone out of Hawaii. I think Kawamoto Orchids exclusive as they used to sell this a lot on eBay. I bought one back in 2009. The flowers are huge and fragrant. Gorgeous color!! Mine never had issues and I never tested, but who knows?
> Just to be clear, I'm not saying the named vendor is selling virused stock, but just pointing out that that's the originator as long as I remember.
> If you bought it from a different nursery, it is of course very much possible that the original plant was free of virus but was infected at that particular nursery due to improper handling or whatever else that might have transferred the virus to the plant(s).


I did not buy it from Kawamoto, but another very reputable vendor. I’ve had it over a year, (with virus unknowingly in my collection). I can NOT assume it came virused from the vendor. I have started recording the date of last re-potting of my virused plants. I track that for each plant on a tag, but am now recording it separately before I discard the tags for my virused plants. I want to know if my repotting transferred virus, or my hands, general trimming, disinfecting , etc. practices. Or, who knows...


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## SouthPark (Dec 28, 2020)

SB --- I was just meaning - too much noise reduction can cause a smoothing effect ----- like this. I personally don't mind it at all ----- just mentioning only


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## southernbelle (Dec 28, 2020)

SouthPark said:


> SB --- I was just meaning - too much noise reduction can cause a smoothing effect ----- like this. I personally don't mind it at all ----- just mentioning only


Sorry, I just noticed the noise reduction question from your first comment once I read this one. I have no idea what noise reduction editing is... I snapped the shot with my phone, then zoomed a bit. That’s the only editing I did. The photo in the window (also on my phone) of the previous bloom was back lit (because of the window), so it darkened the flower a little. All I did was to lighten it a little. Hope that answers your question.


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## SouthPark (Dec 29, 2020)

southernbelle said:


> I snapped the shot with my phone, then zoomed a bit. That’s the only editing I did. The photo in the window (also on my phone) of the previous bloom was back lit (because of the window), so it darkened the flower a little. All I did was to lighten it a little. Hope that answers your question.



Thanks for mentioning that SB! Are you using an apple i-phone? It's possible that the phone is automatically applying noise-reduction (maybe enabled by default) ----- a feature that can sometimes help reduce the amount of noise grainyness in images taken in relatively low light ----- where relatively low light can lead to grainy/noisy looking images in digital cameras. The smoothing or averaging algorithm is applied to pixels around the various regions of the image ----- resulting in less 'noise' -- less grainyness ...... but too aggressive a smoothing can lead to too much blending ----- and some natural detail in the image subject can become lost ....... like line features etc.


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## southernbelle (Dec 29, 2020)

SouthPark said:


> Thanks for mentioning that SB! Are you using an apple i-phone? It's possible that the phone is automatically applying noise-reduction (maybe enabled by default) ----- a feature that can sometimes help reduce the amount of noise grainyness in images taken in relatively low light ----- where relatively low light can lead to grainy/noisy looking images in digital cameras. The smoothing or averaging algorithm is applied to pixels around the various regions of the image ----- resulting in less 'noise' -- less grainyness ...... but too aggressive a smoothing can lead to too much blending ----- and some natural detail in the image subject can become lost ....... like line features etc.


Ah, yes it’s an iPhone X. I just looked at the settings. I always photograph with HDR on auto, no flash, which (from what I understand) takes 3 exposures and presents the camera’s idea of the best one. I will edit to crop/zoom and sometimes lighten or darken a bit, but that’s all. I, just now, touched the other icons in editing to see and found noise reduction, but it is at 0 in both of these photos so it must have to be manually adjusted and is not a product of HDR. By the way, the photo in the window is showing a bit darker in ST than in reality as on my phone there are slight yellow streaks at the base of the lip that don’t show here.


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## e-spice (Dec 29, 2020)

Sorry to hear that. I've experienced the same thing and it's disheartening. Phals, especially novelty ones, are particularly virus prone. I've pretty much eliminated them from my collection because of that.


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## SouthPark (Dec 29, 2020)

southernbelle said:


> Ah, yes it’s an iPhone X. I just looked at the settings. I always photograph with HDR on auto, no flash, which (from what I understand) takes 3 exposures and presents the camera’s idea of the best one.



Thanks SB for letting me know that the pics were taken with an iPhone X on auto HDR setting. The phone software appears to have applied some noise reduction or something to the image - as the petals have smoothed out features - the appearance of sails or silk etc. Still looks nice though ----- but noticeable. I've attached pics with an extra example - one without noise reduction, and one with noise reduction. The petals with noise reduction have the appearance of smooth cloth. It's only an example that draws attention to noticeable affects of digital smoothing that might be automatically applied by a camera to pics.

But -- getting back to the virus issue ------- definitely let us know if you later get a replacement (same mericlone) for your one! There should be good chances of getting a replacement.


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## PeteM (Dec 29, 2020)

Sorry to hear this, looks like it was an amazing flower.


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## DrLeslieEe (Dec 29, 2020)

The appearance of a virus in a cattleya collection is not uncommon at all. The issue is if the plant is valuable enough to keep. 

I have 3 criterias for this:

1. is the plant of historical significance with a provenance of heirloom status?
2. do the flowers present without viral streaks or any strange leaf markings?
3. is the plant rare?

All 3 of these criterias must be in the affirmative before I decide to keep the plant. If I do, I will set them aside in a different grow area away from the rest of the collection, paying extra attention to handle with care (like an immunocompromised or infectious patient). Gloves and sterilize eveything basically. 

Many collectors do this, particularly if they hold a valuable heirloom collection. Some heirloom plants like trianaes 'Mooreana', 'Premier' and 'Jungle Queen' are virused, likely from the jungles from whence they were collected; and grow unaffected, breeding the great trianaes like 'Cashens' we have today.

These plants will usually grow without any markings on leaves or flowers, but show positive viral tests. Very much like hepatitis C humans. 

If the plants are easily replaceable as a mericlone or other divisions, I will usually do so.


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## SouthPark (Dec 29, 2020)

I have read somebody say/mention that Ctt. Porcia 'Cannizaro' (yes ..... true, that's the way it is spelled hehe, even though it was probably spelled incorrectly when registering) ........ is a typhoid mary. Not sure if it's 'confirmed' though. I grow one of these ----- and it is next door neighbours to my other catts.


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## southernbelle (Dec 30, 2020)

SouthPark said:


> Thanks SB for letting me know that the pics were taken with an iPhone X on auto HDR setting. The phone software appears to have applied some noise reduction or something to the image - as the petals have smoothed out features - the appearance of sails or silk etc. Still looks nice though ----- but noticeable. I've attached pics with an extra example - one without noise reduction, and one with noise reduction. The petals with noise reduction have the appearance of smooth cloth. It's only an example that draws attention to noticeable affects of digital smoothing that might be automatically applied by a camera to pics.
> 
> But -- getting back to the virus issue ------- definitely let us know if you later get a replacement (same mericlone) for your one! There should be good chances of getting a replacement.


Thanks I will pursue a replacement.


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## southernbelle (May 5, 2021)

southernbelle said:


> djthomp28
> Darlene, not labeled on the tag — no vendor ID code (and at that point I didn’t know enough to ask). So, not a division. I think a clone because it was a nice plant in a 5” pot with 4 blooms when I bought it.


Re Lawless Walkure:
Darlene Thompson, you asked if my virused plant was a division or a seedling.
UPDATE! I was able to get another from the same vendor. I asked for an original division and he said no, because the original is virused. So I got a meristem that is clean. I don’t understand (didn’t think to ask, but will) how a meristem of a virused plant could be clean, unless the plant meristemed was a seedling. Unless, of course it’s one they have done like Chadwick’s article and the virus didn’t pass on. He tested it before shipping (Rega) and its clean. I will test again (Agdia), but have no reason to doubt his test.
it’s not in spike, so I’ll have to be patient to see flower.


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## terryros (May 5, 2021)

Deb, the meristematic tissue of a Cattleya grows and if it is growing fairly quickly some of the most recent tissue can be out ahead of virus growth and be clean. So, some mericlones from virus-infected plants may be able to be clean. In the article, she tried to grow the plant in optimal conditions and only take the most recent tip of tissue for cloning.


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## Ozpaph (May 6, 2021)

cloning looks like it worked this time.


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## southernbelle (May 6, 2021)

South Park 
See post above. I was able to get a clean replacement mericlone. Waldor had it. Dave said the original is virused, when I asked for a division (I don’t think he has the original but not clear on that).


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## SouthPark (May 6, 2021)

Nice to hear! Maybe their original plant was cloned ----- and were all originally 'clean'. And somehow the original developed a virus, while the 'backups' remain clean and didn't catch the virus. Or the plant which your previous one came from was a clone too (which was divided, and the division came to you), while there existed in their collection other clones. And one of those other clones have now come to you.


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