# neem and parvi's = bad news?



## cnycharles (Jan 6, 2010)

Hello,
Just reading in another thread where someone mentioned that parvi's don't like neem... wanted to confirm or find out under what conditions this could be avoided if possible so looking for confirmation
thanks


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jan 6, 2010)

I don't recall any damage to any plant when I was spraying neem....then again, there was no benefit either....unless you like that smell!


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## Shiva (Jan 6, 2010)

A mix of neem oil and dish soap works well for me as long as it is sprayed on the plants right away. I avoid using it on flowers however as they usually wilt soon after.


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## parvi_17 (Jan 6, 2010)

I also said this in the other thread, but I have sprayed my plants a few times, and haven't seen any damage. It's been about 6 months since the last time I did it.


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## Ernie (Jan 6, 2010)

I think Dot said that. Caught my attention too. Glad you brought it back up... We haven't seen Parvi damage from neem. Yes, I do like the smell... compared to Orthene.  

-Ernie


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## paphioboy (Jan 6, 2010)

Personally, you shouldn't overdose on neem. I found that out the hard way... I once overdosed and the next day, the leaves of some paphs and phals turned yellow with bronish black speckles everywhere. Hookerae suffered the most. Not sure about parvis though..


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## smartie2000 (Jan 6, 2010)

the parvi paphs were fine, no different from other plants


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## NYEric (Jan 7, 2010)

I think if you use neem and let the plants sit in heat and sun there might be a smothering problem. I apply neem immediately before or after applying water to avoid this.


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## Ray (Jan 7, 2010)

I'm guessing it's a typical "oil" situation - neem, Ultrafine, cooking oils, it's all the same - applied when the plants are cool, it should be no issue. Do so when they are already warmed by the sunlight and there can be all sorts of issues.

About the only benefit I see with neem compared to other oils is its "antifeedant" properties, making it something (not much, though) of an insect repellent.


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## likespaphs (Jan 7, 2010)

NYEric said:


> I think if you use neem and let the plants sit in heat and sun there might be a smothering problem.....




um.... if you spray a plant with any oil and let it sit in the sun, the oil acts as little magnifying glasses and burns the heck outta the plant.....
it's best to spray oil in the early morning or later in the day, also, the plants should dry quickly


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## Ernie (Jan 7, 2010)

Yeah, we recommend applying _any_ pesticide when plants are fully hydrated and on cooler days (low to mid 70's) without bright sun. Water well the day before you apply. Oak Hill recommends applying in the evening, but that could lead to rots if the night is too cool or if air circ is poor- of course, if you're applying an anti-bacterial/fungal would be safer to apply at the end of the day than an insecticide/miticide without anti-microbial properties. 

-Ernie


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## goldenrose (Jan 7, 2010)

cnycharles said:


> Hello,Just reading in another thread where someone mentioned that parvi's don't like neem... wanted to confirm or find out under what conditions this could be avoided if possible so looking for confirmation
> thanks


Boy look what I started, I confessed! It does serve as a reminder for those of us with more experience, but it's good to rehash for our new members.



Ernie said:


> I think Dot said that. Caught my attention too. Glad you brought it back up... We haven't seen Parvi damage from neem. Yes, I do like the smell... compared to Orthene.  -Ernie


Are you sure you want to single Dot out?
Dot - say nothing, I've got your back!


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## likespaphs (Jan 7, 2010)

another thing is to make sure that things are applied correctly, according to the label instructions. labels are federal law and using more doesn't kill better or more, but often leads to phytotoxicicty (damage to the plant)


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## Ernie (Jan 7, 2010)

Oh, so it was Rose then!  Didn't mean to blame or whatever. Was just trying to stir it up and get first hand reason from who had damage and under what conditions. 

-Ernie


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## NYEric (Jan 7, 2010)

Didn't I tell you, "real men don't read no labels!"


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## etex (Jan 7, 2010)

NYEric- Good one!


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## Ernie (Jan 7, 2010)

NYEric said:


> Didn't I tell you, "real men don't read no labels!"



Then real men better not be applyin' no chemicals to any plants they get from us. :rollhappy:

-Ernie


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## likespaphs (Jan 7, 2010)

Ernie said:


> ....better not be applyin' no chemicals to any plants...




one thing i think is kinda funny is that people don't consider horticultural oil or other oils pesticides or chemicals. but...{wait for it}...they are.


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## Ernie (Jan 7, 2010)

likespaphs said:


> one thing i think is kinda funny is that people don't consider horticultural oil or other oils pesticides or chemicals. but...{wait for it}...they are.



They most certainly are. Didn't mean to imply otherwise. Shoot, water is a chemical. NYEric better be usin' that!  

-Ernie


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## cnycharles (Jan 7, 2010)

oh, so now the word is that brachys don't like neem? maybe we should just make a list here of people who have had problems with using neem on any particular genus or family of orchids...


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## SlipperFan (Jan 7, 2010)

Ernie said:


> I think Dot said that. Caught my attention too. Glad you brought it back up... We haven't seen Parvi damage from neem. Yes, I do like the smell... compared to Orthene.
> 
> -Ernie


Hmmmm, I don't think so -- I've never used neem on plants.


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## Ray (Jan 8, 2010)

> ... if you spray a plant with any oil and let it sit in the sun, the oil acts as little magnifying glasses and burns the heck outta the plant.....
> it's best to spray oil in the early morning or later in the day, also, the plants should dry quickly



I don't know if I buy that "magnifying glass" part, for two reasons. 1) Due to surface energy reduction, oils generally spread rapidly into a very thin, flat layer (think motor oil on a puddle), and we usually emulsify them to get maximum dispersion anyway. 2) A water droplet should be a pretty a pretty damned good lens too, and it has a tendency to stay as droplets, yet we do not observe that causing damage.

That said, I wholeheartedly agree that oils + warmth = damage, so always recommend early-morning treatment of any pesticide.


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## likespaphs (Jan 8, 2010)

yup, i meant the water/oil mix...or just water can if the sun is strong enough....then again, i don't think i've ever sprayed in the heat of the day so i may have incorrectly remembered it.


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## NYEric (Jan 8, 2010)

I was just musing what other kind of oil likespaphs would be putting on his plants?!


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## cnycharles (Jan 8, 2010)

there is sunspray oil, vegetable oil, mineral oil; people will use any type of oil and most of them will work if used correctly. 

about the oil and burning, there are many pesticides that have petroleum distillates that are 'basically' used to allow the working components to mix with the carrier base and the water that the chemical will be mixed with and used for application. in many cases it is the distillate that is 'hazardous to health' and requires the longer re-entry intervals. in the case of insect growth regulator whose name I'm forgetting (doing dishes robs my brain cells of needed activity and they shut down...) has a four-hour re-entry interval, and that is completely because of the petroleum carrier. the insect hormone used is not hazardous, just the distillate. often the carrier is what can also cause phytotoxicity on many plants (why orthene wettable powder isn't so bad about killing plants as the oil-based version is, for example). so, just because it isn't a poison (oil) doesn't mean that it won't nail your plants if used incorrectly (and of course not all oils are petroleum distillates, but the same thing will happen to the plant if they are used incorrectly)


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