# Cattleya (syn. Laelia) purpurata werkhauseri



## DrLeslieEe (May 24, 2021)

A steel blue lip on this purpurata werkhauseri that contrasts nicely with the white tepals. Light fragrance. 

Another of my plants at David’s. Still needs another year or two to show its potential.

I might name him ‘Steele Blue’ lol.


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## abax (May 24, 2021)

Beautiful and the dorsal is very nice...no flopping here.


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## monocotman (May 25, 2021)

Beautiful clone with a nice wide lip!
David


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## h_mossy (May 25, 2021)

Love the color on the Werkhauseri, very unusual. I once saw a tag that indicated a cross of a Werkhauseri and a Carnea, not in bloom unfortunately, and I couldn't imagine what they were attempting to obtain by such a cross. I wish I saw it in flower. To me it made no sense.


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## monocotman (May 25, 2021)

as Werkhauseri is a form of coerulea I would imagine that it would be fairly recessive in any cross with a more ‘normal’ colour form.


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## DrLeslieEe (May 25, 2021)

monocotman said:


> as Werkhauseri is a form of coerulea I would imagine that it would be fairly recessive in any cross with a more ‘normal’ colour form.


Agreed.

Sometimes that kind of cross is done to improve the shape of the werkhauseri as there are more fuller round flower carneas. The sibbing of F1s may produce rounder shaped coeruleas in the F2 generation.


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## terryros (May 25, 2021)

Do you like Wekhauseri better than Schusteriana type?


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## DrLeslieEe (May 25, 2021)

terryros said:


> Do you like Wekhauseri better than Schusteriana type?


I think they are different enough to collect all. But my favourite is the purpurata pelorica!

Very rare form... here is a spectacular one from my good friend, an AOS judge in Florida (Lou Llodyga) who graciously allowed me to post his blooming pics before pollination this week.







It’s simply exquisite!

Luckily I’m in line for the second division of this rare beauty!


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## southernbelle (May 25, 2021)

DrLeslieEe said:


> A steel blue lip on this purpurata werkhauseri that contrasts nicely with the white tepals. Light fragrance.
> 
> Another of my plants at David’s. Still needs another year or two to show its potential.
> 
> ...


Leslie, this is really beautiful! In some way in its simplicity. Love the name!!! And the LIP!!


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## h_mossy (May 26, 2021)

Never seen one of those. Interesting. I like the effect made by the lines. Does it matter if it is yellow or not deep in the inside of the lip? I've seen with and without.


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## southernbelle (May 26, 2021)

DrLeslieEe said:


> I think they are different enough to collect all. But my favourite is the purpurata pelorica!
> 
> Very rare form... here is a spectacular one from my good friend, an AOS judge in Florida (Lou Llodyga) who graciously allowed me to post his blooming pics before pollination this week.
> 
> ...


Leslie, OMG!! The white dorsal, the striations and the intense color. I see why you are so smitten!! Absolutely exquisite!!


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## monocotman (May 26, 2021)

Leslie,
I have to say that for me, the peloric form isn’t something that I would want to grow. It’s ‘interesting’ but that’s all.
However it is a very different kettle of fish where the flammea mossiaes are concerned. Please post your best clone when it flowers.
Have you tried to prize a division of one of the new forms out of Armando?
David


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## Ozpaph (May 26, 2021)

love both or them.
The peloric form is most unusual.


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## terryros (May 26, 2021)

The various forms of the Cattleya species get descriptive names (e.g. coerulea) but I don't know of a source that lists the described forms for each species. Yes, for the few where something is a var. Occasionally someone talks about a fma. (forma) of something but I don't know if that is an official descriptor or not. Leslie must have a secret judges handbook that lists all this stuff. All of these purpurata forms are certainly not in Chadwick's book!


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## PhragNewbie021 (May 26, 2021)

Really unusual!


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## NEslipper (May 26, 2021)

That werkhauseri is stunning! The name “Steele Blue” reminds me of the movie Zoolander, haha. The veining on the pelorica is beautiful, but I’m still partial to the werkauseri!


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## DrLeslieEe (May 27, 2021)

h_mossy said:


> Never seen one of those. Interesting. I like the effect made by the lines. Does it matter if it is yellow or not deep in the inside of the lip? I've seen with and without.


The yellow in the throat is not a must unless it is a species that is defined by it like eldorado (syn. wallisii).


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## DrLeslieEe (May 27, 2021)

monocotman said:


> Leslie,
> I have to say that for me, the peloric form isn’t something that I would want to grow. It’s ‘interesting’ but that’s all.
> However it is a very different kettle of fish where the flammea mossiaes are concerned. Please post your best clone when it flowers.
> Have you tried to prize a division of one of the new forms out of Armando?
> David


Pelorics are attractive to me if they are balanced. Some can be very obtrusive lol.

I will definitely post my mossiae flamea when in bloom. It has 4 bulbs with buds!!!

I have not asked Armando for the divisions yet. I would think it would be in the USD 800-1500$ or even 2000$ range. The best ones in Brazil are that price range.


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## DrLeslieEe (May 27, 2021)

terryros said:


> The various forms of the Cattleya species get descriptive names (e.g. coerulea) but I don't know of a source that lists the described forms for each species. Yes, for the few where something is a var. Occasionally someone talks about a fma. (forma) of something but I don't know if that is an official descriptor or not. Leslie must have a secret judges handbook that lists all this stuff. All of these purpurata forms are certainly not in Chadwick's book!


Terry, there is a Brazilian book on purpuratas by Lou Menes, where she describes all the colour forms. 

Also I heard a great purpurata talk by Sergio of Olompia Orchids from California of the ways the color forms can be divided by the markings of the lip. 

In AOS, there is no training on the various color forms of purpuratas as there is too many. Usually similar colors are judged against each other like the werkhauseris and then the average is compared against all purps. I hope to attend a purp show in Brazil to learn more. 

Side note that may be a bit confusing: Colors are designated as forma or fm. and not as varieties (var.). This means a color form is not a 'new' variety of the species. To be designated as variety, you need to have floral difference in shape and markings such as a rounder or longer petal. So technically this flower is Cattleya purpurata fm. werhauseri (coerulea).


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## terryros (May 27, 2021)

DrLeslieEe said:


> Terry, there is a Brazilian book on purpuratas by Lou Menes, where she describes all the colour forms.
> 
> Also I heard a great purpurata talk by Sergio of Olompia Orchids from California of the ways the color forms can be divided by the markings of the lip.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Leslie. That was how I was picturing the difference between forma and variety. I assume the different color forms of other species are as difficult to pin down as purpurata.


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## dodidoki (May 27, 2021)

Leslie, could you get pollen from labelloid plant?


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## DrLeslieEe (May 27, 2021)

dodidoki said:


> Leslie, could you get pollen from labelloid plant?


Yes, but my portion is used to self the plant. The rest were sent elsewhere to breed other purpuratas and no extras available. It’s in high demand lol.


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## terryros (May 28, 2021)

Leslie, it should probably be a separate thread, but this is a good place to ask someone with your knowledge the reasons for selfing an outstanding species (I think the answer would probably apply to an outstanding hybrid as well). I have read people question doing this but I think it makes sense genetically.


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## h_mossy (May 28, 2021)

If it is an outstanding plant, why not just mericlone it?


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## DrLeslieEe (May 29, 2021)

terryros said:


> Leslie, it should probably be a separate thread, but this is a good place to ask someone with your knowledge the reasons for selfing an outstanding species (I think the answer would probably apply to an outstanding hybrid as well). I have read people question doing this but I think it makes sense genetically.


A selfing is done if it's one of kind or you want to continue the genes pure. It is ideal to do a 2 step breeding program to save the genes as well. 

I think someone in Brazil did mericlone a purpurata peloric like this.


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