# Your experiences with armeniacum?



## Stone (Oct 25, 2012)

I now have 40 or so species of paph:drool:, mostly seedlings and young plants and all are either doing well or at least satisfactory except one.....armeniacum. I've noticed that for some on this forum it grows like a weed (under lights) but for me (in the glasshouse) it struggles. I've got 2 seedlings (and another on the way) they did ok for a while, put out new roots and then lost them. Put out another in moss and lost that, grew a new leaf and then stopped dead. What the hell's going on?? Should I find a cold spot for it? Wet? dry? hot? cold? dark? bright???? I'm going to grow it well if its the last thing I do!! 
I haven't dared feed them yet....
All thoughts welcome.

Mike


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## Rick (Oct 25, 2012)

Me too Mike! 

For me these and micranthum have been boom and bust. Grow like crazy bloom, and then burn out. I've rebooted since going low K so I'm either trying to bring back some long term beat ups or I've only had them for less than a year.

The basket system has always work better than pots for me, but even that has not been full proof. We'll see how sparse feeding and TDS management helps.

I think Leo Schordje and JPMC have the best armeniacum/micranthum long term on the site, so you might dig up their old posts.


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## goldenrose (Oct 25, 2012)

Count me in  but I've never gotten them growing like crazy, more like the slow train to the graveyard! I've had 2, and there's no way the 3rd times a charm!
... on the other hand I don't seem to have a problem with armeniacum hybrids.


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## The Orchid Boy (Oct 25, 2012)

I'm going to try an armeniacum and a micranthum and am going to buy both within the next five months. I have orchids that go crazy for me under T5 lights that just do average for others who grow in greenhouses. Maybe it has to do with constant light levels?


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## Rick (Oct 25, 2012)

One thing that was intriguing from the field data was how light levels went up dramatically during the colder parts of the year, and down during the heat. In general armeniacum and micranthum are two of the more cold adapted paph species. The hooks on the leaves of micranthum may be an adaptation to providing a means of frost insulation.

However, I recall from some of Leo's threads that getting temps down near freezing where not a necessity for either blooming or long term maintenance.


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## JeanLux (Oct 26, 2012)

Good questions Mike !!!! I killed already 4 of them over the years! Number 5 (in basket) and 6 (recent purchase) are just surviving actually!
My micranthums grow well but do not bloom  !! Maybe (heated) gh culture is nothing for them! Jean


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## cnycharles (Oct 26, 2012)

from seeing here and from vendors who have come to our shows selling armeniacum, there seem to be the usual group of them that are probably more closely resembling plants with genes being presented in the wild. these plants seem to prefer having a cold/bright winter, and be fairly dry. however, there are ones that are most likely improved varieties that have come out of flask, and selection has removed some of the need for a cold/dry/bright winter, and they are vigorous and fairly healthy year 'round whether or not they have a cooler and such winter. main street orchids from pennsylvania who comes to the rochester ny show has a clone that is fairly vigorous and doesn't seem to need so much of the winter rest. 

if there is some doubt, you could always try the cooler, brighter winter, if things don't seem to be doing well, otherwise. my piece of main street's plants (purchased two different times) seems to be fairly tolerant of my treatment of it. mealybugs decimated my first piece, which was growing and putting out shoots very nicely, and the second one is doing fine though being somewhat mistreated this summer. other clones that I had purchased from rice's orchids years ago were not so vigorous or happy in the winter with normal treatment, and are all in orchid-heaven. i'm sure jim's plants were all more closely-related to wild gene combinations


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## eggshells (Oct 26, 2012)

I find that for armeniacum, they prefer a slightly acidic mix which is weird for a species that is calcareous. They are at their best when the mix has started to break down as oppose to fresh at least in my experience and plants.

I believe JPMC armeniacum doesn't get any winter rest or dry period. In fact when he did. The flowers buds have blasted. Hope he will chime in when he sees this thread.


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## Rick (Oct 26, 2012)

eggshells said:


> I find that for armeniacum, they prefer a slightly acidic mix which is weird for a species that is calcareous. They are at their best when the mix has started to break down as oppose to fresh at least in my experience and plants.
> 
> I believe JPMC armeniacum doesn't get any winter rest or dry period. In fact when he did. The flowers buds have blasted. Hope he will chime in when he sees this thread.



Also contradictory is that JPMC adds lime as a top dress to his mix. And since its in a basket says it falls out as it breaks down, so mix stays relatively fresh over time.


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## Stone (Oct 26, 2012)

cnycharles said:


> from seeing here and from vendors who have come to our shows selling armeniacum, there seem to be the usual group of them that are probably more closely resembling plants with genes being presented in the wild. these plants seem to prefer having a cold/bright winter, and be fairly dry. however, there are ones that are most likely improved varieties that have come out of flask, and selection has removed some of the need for a cold/dry/bright winter, and they are vigorous and fairly healthy year 'round whether or not they have a cooler and such winter. main street orchids from pennsylvania who comes to the rochester ny show has a clone that is fairly vigorous and doesn't seem to need so much of the winter rest.
> 
> if there is some doubt, you could always try the cooler, brighter winter, if things don't seem to be doing well, otherwise. my piece of main street's plants (purchased two different times) seems to be fairly tolerant of my treatment of it. mealybugs decimated my first piece, which was growing and putting out shoots very nicely, and the second one is doing fine though being somewhat mistreated this summer. other clones that I had purchased from rice's orchids years ago were not so vigorous or happy in the winter with normal treatment, and are all in orchid-heaven. i'm sure jim's plants were all more closely-related to wild gene combinations



I have no idea of the history of my seedlings Charles. One is a selfing, the other is a sib cross and the one in the mail...who knows? I'm fairly confident they were crosses made here or at least in the West from older clones due to their names so they could be 3rd or 4th generation??


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## Stone (Oct 26, 2012)

eggshells said:


> .
> 
> 
> > They are at their best when the mix has started to break down as oppose to fresh at least in my experience and plants.
> ...


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## Stone (Oct 26, 2012)

Rick said:


> One thing that was intriguing from the field data was how light levels went up dramatically during the colder parts of the year, and down during the heat. In general armeniacum and micranthum are two of the more cold adapted paph species. The hooks on the leaves of micranthum may be an adaptation to providing a means of frost insulation.
> 
> However, I recall from some of Leo's threads that getting temps down near freezing where not a necessity for either blooming or long term maintenance.



Yes from the information I can find they definately like bright light. Probably more than any other parvis. It seems micrathum has more in common with malipoense rather than armeniacum. Slightly warmer and more shade. In fact they apparently grow together in some areas.
Years ago before I even knew what a paph was, I had a micrathum which grew in a cold glasshouse. It went down to 5C in winter with full sun for about 4-5 hours per day. In summer it was shaded. It grew and flowered quite well until I decided to ''look after'' it better and killed it...


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Oct 26, 2012)

I love armeniacum. I have grown it for 30 years. That said, I have always been extraordinarily unsuccessful at it. My standard treatment is out doors Late April-late Oct/early Nov (Hurricane Sandy will bring it indoors early this year.) Indoors, in direct sun, dry (watered once a week), no fertilizer between Oct and Feb, in a cold room (usual temps drop to mid 50's...40's on very cold nights...every few years high 30's for a night). I have only bloomed it once, on a collected plant I had had for 12 years previously- which died the season after bloom. It was an exceptionally warm fall, and no other paphs spiked that season. I found the original collected plants introduced in the 80's to be very vigorous, producing many stolons and offshoots, even as they refused to bud. The last few decades have produced armeniacums that grow slower, less offshoots, less vigor. And still no blooms. But I still love it......


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## Leo Schordje (Oct 27, 2012)

Since my name was mentioned, I thought I'd drop in. Was out of town until Monday late and have just barely caught up on other things around the house. I don't grow in a greenhouse, but if I had to I would not dry them out in winter or anytime. Situate them so that they are protected from the highest heat, I think they start failing at 95 F or so. Shade in summer to avoid excess heat. Sun on a plastic pot can cook roots, so set the armeniacum pot into a taller and larger diameter clay pot. Leave the void between the armeniacum pot and the clay pot empty. The air space provides insulation. The clay pot should be tall enough that the sun can not shine directly on the plastic pot. This will help keep the roots from being overheated by the sun. Those are my thoughts on greenhouse growing. 

I will add how I grow armeniacum, because maybe you will see 'the trick' or the difference between what I do and what your greenhouse does. 

I have a room that grows armeniacum beautifully. I have some 10 or 15 different clones, at least 4 I have kept alive for over 20 years. One I picked up in 1987. So I guess I have a little experience.  While I keep them alive, they do take their time about blooming. I would say most of mine take 4 or 5 years to mature a growth and bloom at the quickest. Single growth plants can poke along for a decade without blooming. Virtually 100% of my armeniacum are divisions of originally collected material, none of mine are from seed. I do have divisions of 2 different awarded armeniacums, some of the collected clones are very nice. All are at least charming. 

I grow under lights in a basement. For armeniacum I keep it in the brightest region (directly under in the middle of the shelf), of the light stand with T5's in my 'cold room'. This room is a former coal cellar, no heat ducts in this room. Bare concrete floors and concrete walls. So the humidity is up and the temps are cool compared to the rest of the basement. In winter it can get as cool as 55 F or roughly 13 C. Which is not that cold, more an intermediate temperature. During the day in winter, when the lights are on, the heat of the T5's does bring the temperature up at least 10 F (up about 6 C). I grow my micranthum in the same room, but on a shelf with T12 shop lights, so the light is less than the intensity that the armeniacums are getting. Lights are on 18 hours per day, 365/yr. 

In summer this room gets warmer, as the house does not have central air conditioning. But since it is a basement, it rarely gets over 90 F (32 C). In summer it does not cool down as nicely as I would like it to. This year in particular night time temps were over 80 F (26 C) for at least one month. This is bad for cool growing orchids, the armeniacum and micranthum did not seem to mind, I would not class them as cool growers. They tolerate cool, they don't need it the way a Masdevallia might. Look at their home climate, warm wet, rainy summers, with August being particularly warm, even at night. Cool and somewhat dry winters, but remember, these are mountain plants, they might not get daily rain in winter, but they do get fog, or dew, this condensation can be substantial, and would keep the mosses and soils they grow in at least lightly damp all winter, even if there is no rain. 

A couple things I do that I think help. I use as small a pot as I can get away with, most of my armeniacums are 1 to 3 growths in 2.5 x 2.5 x 4 inch tall pots. I try to repot at least once every 2 years. If you rot the roots off, it takes forever to put roots back on. Best for me is to repot once a year, but that doesn't always happen. Never delay repotting so long the mix breaks down. Sometimes I grow directly in Yi-Xing pots, just to be 'artsy'. Have a division of armeniacum 'Birchwood' FCC/AOS growing in a basket with nothing but New Zealand Sphagnum moss. It was a small single growth fragment with no roots, now leaf span is about 7 inches, and a new growth is peaking up near the edge of the basket. If I had the room, I would put more paphs in baskets, but they don't work well under lights for mechanical/logistical reasons. 

I do not dry them out in winter. They seem to do best if you keep the mix lightly damp, and water again before it goes to dry. I don't keep them wet. The tall pots hold less water than a wider & shorter pot. The mix doesn't stay too wet. 

I use a fine mix, particle size between 1/8th and 1/2 inch. I use a hardware cloth screen to eliminate big particles, and a coarse window screen to eliminate the fines. My mix is roughly 2 parts fir bark, 1 part coconut husk chunks, 1 part perlite and 1 part charcoal. I sift / shake over the screens, then mix the components, then add enough water to wet the mix. Then I add roughly 1/4 part sand, fine play sand or pool filter sand. Mix it up, let it stand over night and mix again. The sand will stick to the particles. This is my general mix. As I repot, the lime loving species get a tablespoon or so sprinkled on top of their mix of crushed oystershell and/or horticultural grade lime, I don't mix this in, just let it sit on top. Then I water them and put them back under the lights. (sand is from suggestion by Ernie Gemeinhart, and I get real nice roots, especially on my brachys)

I'm using MSU fertilizer at 1/4 teaspoon per gallon continuously, every time I water. This is about 75 ppm as Nitrogen. I plant to switch to K-Lite as soon as I use up the 25 lbs bag of regular MSU that I bought last year. It is almost gone. Yes, I have enough plants that I do use 20 to 25 pounds a year of fertilizer. 

That's it, no tricks really. They grow for me, though they definitely are slower than most species. This is the reason I have so many clones of armeniacum. Since they are so slow, by having 10 or 15 of them I do get to see one or two bloom every year. So the solution to slow growing plants is get a bunch of them. :evil: Easy with armeniacum & micranthum, but you would need a lot of space if you were to do this with stonei or sanderianum.


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## valenzino (Oct 27, 2012)

I was quite unsuccesfull with armeniacums untill I started using very open baskets with quite open mix...i think that they need a lot of air at roots level...so also they like lot of water but fast dry out....


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## Justin (Oct 27, 2012)

Leo, i have a 2 growth division of your 'Birchwood' clone. I have it in a small 4" pot with fine fir bark mix and top dressed with sphagnum to keep in moisture. 

I grow it right next to a couple micranthum. But basically the same treatment as the rest of my Paphs....somewhat bright light, intermediate temps year-round, and water usually once per week with 50/50 RO and tapwater, with 1/2 tsp of a homemade version of K-Lite. It grows slowly but is currently putting out new leafs so it seems happy. 

I recently started adding a kelp product into my feeding rotation, so maybe that will help with kicking out more roots.


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## Leo Schordje (Oct 27, 2012)

Justin said:


> Leo, i have a 2 growth division of your 'Birchwood' clone. I have it in a small 4" pot with fine fir bark mix and top dressed with sphagnum to keep in moisture.
> 
> I grow it right next to a couple micranthum. But basically the same treatment as the rest of my Paphs....somewhat bright light, intermediate temps year-round, and water usually once per week with 50/50 RO and tapwater, with 1/2 tsp of a homemade version of K-Lite. It grows slowly but is currently putting out new leafs so it seems happy.
> 
> I recently started adding a kelp product into my feeding rotation, so maybe that will help with kicking out more roots.



Your conditions sound good. I was thinking of adding kelp into my regimen. I was just reporting what I do now. I bloomed armeniacum under normal T12 shop lights in the past, and would get blooms occasionally. They grow so slow that by the time the armeniacum responds to something you did, you have forgotten all about what you changed. So it is hard to be sure of cause and effect. Really difficult to refine one's culture technique. Fortunately, it really does seem they don't need anything very 'different' than a rothschildianum seedling. 

I really think sun on the plastic pots over-heating roots is an issue for greenhouse and window sill growers that are having trouble with this species. 

By the way, for those that don't know, armeniacum 'Birchwood' FCC/AOS is a clone shown by Dick Clements, the year he died, he got 2 FCC's, one to micranthum and one to armeniacum. Then several months later the 'big grabber' heart attack killed him. Dick is the one that got the award. Fox Valley bought the plant, this division came to me through several sets of hands. So it isn't 'mine' as I am not the exhibitor who got the FCC. I am happy to own a division. It is still a nice one, often 10+ cm in natural spread, even though it is an early award to armeniacum.


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## Rick (Oct 27, 2012)

Leo

Are you using the MSU pure water or well water version.

If I recall correctly you have a fairly hard high alkaline water.

Although I think you would see faster growth with less K, I think you may loose the benefit of slightly higher ammonia residuals (better for high alkaline systems) with the other form of MSU.

If you are using RO or dilute well/tap water then by all means you can shift to K lite and should be able to stop the top dressing with lime/ Ca carbonate products.

If you want to keep using a high alkaline system then maybe use K lite at 1/8 tsp/gal with a touch of ammonium nitrate.


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## Ozpaph (Oct 28, 2012)

Thanks Leo for a great commentary.


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## Stone (Oct 28, 2012)

Thanks Leo for so much detailed info. The more we get the more little bits of information we can find relevent to our own conditions. So far we see that people are growing them in all kinds of ways and its not so easy to extract that special technique we need. For example with bellatulum it has finally sunk in why I kept losing roots or having poor development. Several books I have say its necessary to keep them cool... WRONG! Yes they like cooler nights during the dormant season, but they need to be kept dry at the roots or they rot immediately but during the growing period they like phalaenopsis conditions or hotter. When you look at concolor, it's interesting to see that although it grows with bellatulum, it also grows in many other areas and habitats so its obviously much more adaptable than bellatulum and this bares out in cultivation. I think my mistake was watering too much and too early in spring when they (bellatulum) are just waking up (thats always a good root rotting season). You can get a week of warm weather then 2 weeks of winter again.--so easy to make a mistake during that time! But in summer when its really hot, you can pour on the water. So now I feel (a bit) more confident with bellatulum. Now for armeniacum...................


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## Rick (Oct 29, 2012)

Stone said:


> For example with bellatulum it has finally sunk in why I kept losing roots or having poor development. Several books I have say its necessary to keep them cool... WRONG! Yes they like cooler nights during the dormant season, but they need to be kept dry at the roots or they rot immediately.When you look at concolor, it's interesting to see that although it grows with bellatulum, it also grows in many other areas and habitats so its obviously much more adaptable than bellatulum and this bares out in cultivation. I think my mistake was watering too much and too early in spring when they (bellatulum) are just waking up (thats always a good root rotting season). You can get a week of warm weather then 2 weeks of winter again.--so easy to make a mistake during that time! But in summer when its really hot, you can pour on the water. So now I feel (a bit) more confident with bellatulum. Now for armeniacum...................



Mike So how do your reconcile Espices semi hydro (constantly wet ) bellatulum culture? She's in Canada and grows under lights, but Candace also grows bellatulum SH in a GH in California. There was a thread that Charles started as a belatulum culture survey, and Xavier posted that root rots in belatulum were precipitated by getting the roots "too dry".

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7531


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## Rick (Oct 29, 2012)

http://www.bryoecol.mtu.edu/chapters/8-1NutrientRequire.pdf

Try this one. With the direction of the conversation in the Phrag fischeri thread (looking at the bryophyte assemblage), and noting in multiple sources the association of slippers with mosses, and noting that moss growth improved after increasing my rate of watering/flushing.

Maybe root rot is more associated with overfeeding rather than watering at the wrong time of year.

Lance Birk noted that bellatulum was almost always associated with mosses (even when it wasn't on limestone).


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## Stone (Oct 29, 2012)

Rick, whenever I noticed root rot in my bells, they were always in a moist condition, in fact I don't really recall ever letting them dry out during the whole winter but its another avenue to look at!
With the s/h thing, I don't understand why, but there is a difference between constantly wet as in s/h and regular watering to keep the medium moist. I realize it sounds crazy but it seems to be the case. Case in point: Last year I got a flask of sanderianums and tried various mixes to get the roots going and all rather slow to develop. Not from lack of water either as I have been keeping constantly damp to wet AND warm. 10 days ago I decided to put one into charcoal/leca mix and sat it in a shallow saucer of water...I checked this morning and noticied a nice white root tip pushing out, WHY???? Maybe it has something to do with the unfluctuating moisture or maybe the lack of organic material or both or some other reason. I suspect that the roots produced in hydroponics is different in some way to those produced in a standard mix.
I know that if I tried to simulate that level of moisture by watering a ''normal'' mix with ''normal drainage, root rot for sure!
My little Phrag kovachii is also doing very well with this system. 
S/H is definately intriguing and I plan to experiment more with it. Starting with some of the ''wet'' growers.
I also have 5 bellatulum seedlings to play around with and you've inspired me to try one s/h as soon as I've finished typing this!


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## Rick (Oct 30, 2012)

I tried a single bellatulum SH and actually lost it. But I was still messing with high K fert at the time. Going into winter cool now here in TN and I just checked my newest bell in basket. Damp and cool, and new clean root tips snaking through the moss. Same for my niveum.

About the only paph I had do well SH was a couple of tigrinum, and a barbatum. But they went into SH about the time I was transitioning to less fert/low K fert.

Phrags have done best for me in SH, but since reducing K and fert overall, they have dramatically improved from what I thought was pretty good to start with.

Playing with wet vs dry and myriads of potting mixes have been dinked with for years with very few ever able to get the same results twice. But doing what it takes to grow moss (i.e. what would amount to a starvation diet by most folks standards) is a pretty new concept to most orchid growers.


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## Rick (Oct 30, 2012)

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7524&highlight=bellatulum+hydro

Here's the informal bell culture survey from 2008.


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## Leo Schordje (Oct 30, 2012)

Rick said:


> Leo
> 
> Are you using the MSU pure water or well water version.
> 
> ...



Thanks Rick,
I had been using the RO formulation of MSU, I will pick up calcium nitrate and ammonium nitrate and magnesium sulfate to supplement the final use of my MSU. Then on to the K-Lite. Thanks.


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## Stone (Oct 30, 2012)

Well yesterday I put a bellatulum, an armeniacum, a glaucophyllum and a moquettianum into s/h ( a mix of leca and diatomite with a little charcoal ) so we shall see what we shall see
Hey I figure, if it works, then that 's what the plant wants....


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## Rick (Oct 30, 2012)

Stone said:


> Case in point: Last year I got a flask of sanderianums and tried various mixes to get the roots going and all rather slow to develop. Not from lack of water either as I have been keeping constantly damp to wet AND warm. 10 days ago I decided to put one into charcoal/leca mix and sat it in a shallow saucer of water...I checked this morning and noticied a nice white root tip pushing out, WHY????


Mike
One thing I've been fundamentally changing over the recent years in my understanding of orchid culture is to try o) to figure out the chemical context for what plants need/do. This includes all the physical parameters like light/temp/humidity/rainfall. Since plants don't have eyes/ears/noses/fingers..how do they know when its raining, sunny, hot?

I think its pretty cool that a lot of seasonal orchid blooming occurs in Australia (or South Africa) during the same season/opposite time of year that it happens in the US. And the plants can't read a calendar.

It's also weird that a lot of orchids seem to bloom about the same time of year when growing under lights in a basement (with a fixed light schedule) as when they bloom for someone in a GH (with varying day lenght cycles).

So what I'm trying to figure out is what is it that we do that produces a specific chemical environment that gets plants to grow correctly.

In this case, what does increased or decreased water availability do to the chemical environment around the root that either stimulates growth or rots the roots?


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## Stone (Oct 30, 2012)

Yes we all need to stumble through our mistakes to arrive at the solution (hopefully). It's great to have a forum like this for info. exchange. A few years ago it would take much longer to find these ''secrets'' by trial and error or leafing through irrelevant books.


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## JPMC (Nov 29, 2012)

eggshells said:


> I find that for armeniacum, they prefer a slightly acidic mix which is weird for a species that is calcareous. They are at their best when the mix has started to break down as oppose to fresh at least in my experience and plants.
> 
> I believe JPMC armeniacum doesn't get any winter rest or dry period. In fact when he did. The flowers buds have blasted. Hope he will chime in when he sees this thread.



I'm sorry that I did not see this thread last month. I was dealing with hurricane Sandy at the time while trying to fly back home to my armeniacums (and others).

From reading this thread and my own experiences with this species it seems clear that it is tolerant of many environments and intolerant of many others. It seems to be intolerant of a constant set of environmental conditions. I have noticed some similarities between armeniacum and other species that come from that part of the world (i.e. the northern paphs from China). The theme I have noticed with this group of plants is that they seem to want a "continental" climate with seasonal variation. For me, the seasonal variable that seems most important is temperature. Not just cooling in the winter (I rarely go below 60 F) but a hot summer with temps. into the 90's F. Specific to armeniacum, I had no success at all until I moved them into a basket lined with sphagnum. In this environment it is the fastest growing plant (let alone paph) that I have if you don't count moss and algae.


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## eggshells (Nov 29, 2012)

I actually followed JPMC instructions for me and so far I would like to report that its been doing very well. I had some feeding mishap a while ago but that was corrected now.

I planted this summer 2 growth plant ( I hope I wont jinx this ):


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## Dido (Nov 29, 2012)

Looks great keep fingers crossed for you


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## wjs2nd (Nov 29, 2012)

Very cool. I can't wait to see what this looks like in a few more years.


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## Stone (Nov 30, 2012)

Thanks for the replies!! very interesting. I will also try the basket thing and maybe a shallow pan/bowl with a rounded base might also work.


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## Leo Schordje (Dec 5, 2012)

back to armeniacum specifically, I think I see a pattern here. Regardless the myriad systems that do work for their growers. 

For all the methods, roots are protected a little from heat. Be it potting in a plastic pot, then slipping that into a larger empty clay pot. Shade keeps the sun off the plastic, roots stay cooler. Moisture evaporating from the clay after watering also cools the roots. In basket culture, air movement and moisture evaporating around the outside of the basket, keep the roots a little cooler. Semi-Hydro tends to use a coarser, more open mix than a conventional potting mix for the same size pot. This open mix, plus the constant moisture means evaporation will keep the roots just a bit cooler than the leaves. 

So I think the take away is to make sure the roots are protected from heat higher than what the leaves experience. Also the idea that they are 'continental' climate plants is dead on. Warm humid summers. Cooler winters, but not necessarily cold, with water available, because they come from mountain areas with clouds, fog, and dew, enough to keep the mosses moist even during a dry spell. So not drying them out hard between watering.


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## NYEric (Dec 5, 2012)

Nice progress Eggshells!


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## Marc (Dec 8, 2012)

eggshells said:


> I actually followed JPMC instructions for me and so far I would like to report that its been doing very well. I had some feeding mishap a while ago but that was corrected now.
> 
> I planted this summer 2 growth plant ( I hope I wont jinx this ):



How do you actually water this? Spray it with a hoze or do you soak it in a bucket? Or do you have one of these nifty things for watering hanging baskets?


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## Stone (Dec 9, 2012)

Well I don't understand why the hell my 2 little seedlings are being so ****'n stubborn in getting their roots growing...I must be doing something fundamentally wrong. They will put out a little root and then it just rots or browns off!!!!!!!!!! Then I get browned off..So frustrating!!!
So today I threw caution to the wind and put them both into a basket lined with moss and fern fiber in a mix of bark, charcoal, styrene granules and a little diatomite and moss. ( I must say they look ridiculous and it goes against every instinct! ) Then I watered them in and told them in an aggressive yet encouraging way, that if they didn't do something very soon, well then they could all go and get stuffed.


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## cnycharles (Dec 9, 2012)

I was just reminded a few days ago when looking at this thread, that I had tried to grow a bunch of armeniacum seedlings in chunky coconut husk chips years back. They also may have done the drying off or browning off of new roots because the top layer dried out or the humidity was too low, though the inner layer was staying wet. it could be that your humidity for this media is too low or you need to be watering more; maybe misting the top layer more often...


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## eggshells (Dec 9, 2012)

Marc said:


> How do you actually water this? Spray it with a hoze or do you soak it in a bucket? Or do you have one of these nifty things for watering hanging baskets?



I just bring the basket into the sink and just water.


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## SlipperKing (Dec 9, 2012)

Eggshells,
In your pictures the basket looks pretty dry, is it?


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## eggshells (Dec 9, 2012)

SlipperKing said:


> Eggshells,
> In your pictures the basket looks pretty dry, is it?



Yes Rick, the 0.5 inches from the top dries fairly quickly. In a span of 24 hrs. The rest of the mix stays moist.


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## Rick (Dec 9, 2012)

Eggshells

What is the feeding "mishap" that you eluded to earlier?


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## eggshells (Dec 9, 2012)

I deprived my plants of nitrogen and it showed some N deficiency symptoms. I used nitrates nitrogen to my tap water. Fairly alkaline and hard. An ammoniacal N and Urea worked better for me. 30-10-10. I'm finally getting my greens coloration back.


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