# Help, please. Does this look bacterial? Or what is it??



## southernbelle (Sep 15, 2020)

At first I thought this was caused by too much light, but now am concerned it's bacterial or something else. Anyone have any ideas?

First photo is top of leaves, other two are underside of leaves


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## Ozpaph (Sep 16, 2020)

I doubt its bacterial. I wonder if the plant has virus. Its not light damage.
The last photo is out of focus. Can you re-take?


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## southernbelle (Sep 19, 2020)

Thanks for your suggestions, Ozpaph. I virus tested and it does look like a virus (CMV) which would be unlikely considering the quality of the plant and the source. My virus test was 1 month expired, and I had a very faint control line so I’ve ordered more tests and will test again. Am working on getting a better photo, stand by.


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## Ozpaph (Sep 20, 2020)

i think the next test will be positive, too.


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## southernbelle (Sep 20, 2020)

Hmmm. What is interesting, is this is the second bi-foliate in a couple of weeks to develop this (gradually, to the point of concern). Unfortunately, the first was not a strong or special plant, so rather than deal with it, I trashed it. Now I really wish I hadn’t as I could have tested it too. I have isolated this plant and will try to get better photos. Thx.


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## PeteM (Sep 23, 2020)

Might have to do with the recent temperature drops we have had. Probably a fungus or bacteria I have such a difficult time telling them apart.. Those test strips seem to last for me past the expiration date, 2 months is not that long in the fridge, but it's also a good idea to try again. In the mean time, whats the harm in quickly treating with Physan20 and Cleary's 3336. A small application from a spray bottle on this and surrounding plants might keep this from spreading further if it is making its way across the collection.. while you wait for the test strips.


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## Teresa Koncolor (Sep 24, 2020)

Curious to see what your repeat test shows.
I've been testing my orchids and found some healthy looking ones positive. Some that were mature plants and having trouble clearing a fungal infection were positive. Some that are sickly were negative and didn't give me an added excuse to toss them.


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## southernbelle (Sep 24, 2020)

Teresa Koncolor said:


> Curious to see what your repeat test shows.
> I've been testing my orchids and found some healthy looking ones positive. Some that were mature plants and having trouble clearing a fungal infection were positive. Some that are sickly were negative and didn't give me an added excuse to toss them.


Will retest and report as soon as kit arrived from Agdia.


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## werner.freitag (Sep 24, 2020)

Virus


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## southernbelle (Sep 26, 2020)

werner.freitag said:


> Virus


Well, unfortunately, Werner and Ozpaph, you are right. I re-tested today. Unexpired test has bold lines showing CymMV. 
This is a seedling from 2017 that is finally growing well, Cattleya Olenus (4N) (adlandiae (4N) x loddigesii var. harrisoniae 'Streeters Choice' FCC/AOS (4N). 
I'd really like to see the flowers, but I guess the odds are they will not look great on a virused plant... Should I discard it, or just be very careful not to infect other plants. I always pot on paper, use TSP to disinfect tools/pots between plants, and clean the work area with peroxide cleaner. Bummer.


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## PeteM (Sep 26, 2020)

Ughh. Breaks the heart. Especially after all that growing.. Good eye Werner and Ozpaph. It’s amazing how a seedling could get a virus, especially since you take all the precautions. I’m in the middle of testing my entire collection too, started with the newest plants. I try for every 3 years.

All kinds of decisions to make. If the plant had some historic significance, that would be the only reason I would think about keeping it. Even then I would probably rehome it to someone who collected virused plants. I personally throw virused plants out. Too much risk to the collection and risk of passing virus on to others.


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## PeteM (Sep 26, 2020)

Do you also burn your cutting tools? I use this, in addition to a spray bottle of alcohol to clean tools before I burn and rack them to cool. Mapp burns hotter and faster than propane and bottle are inexpensive online or Home Depot. 









Bernzomatic TS8000KC Premium Torch Kit 336638 - The Home Depot


Versatility is the name of the game. With a fully adjustable flame, and the compatibility of MAP-Pro and propane fuels, the project possibilities are endless. With a continuous flame lock and pressure



www.homedepot.com


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## SouthPark (Sep 26, 2020)

southernebelle - if you are worried (even a little bit) ----- if ----- then I wouldn't worry about it.

Viruses are everywhere - just like bacteria. And we humans are like virus/bacteria populating and decimating - messing up the planet (body).

As a home grower - I don't test for virus - and never have tested. I will just take things as they come - naturally. But very nicely or fortunately, I have never had colour breaks or orchids taking a bad turn (for more than a few decades of home growing now) - which has been great.

I do make back-ups of certain orchids that I want to 'back-up' ----- (division where possible) ---- just to put eggs in different baskets -- regardless ------ regardless of what the situation is.


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## PeteM (Sep 26, 2020)

SouthPark said:


> Viruses are everywhere -



 You are spot on!


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## Ozpaph (Sep 26, 2020)

you should burn the plant and test any others that look 'unwell'. Keeping virused plants is a road to unhappiness. Eventually you will regret the decision to keep them and people wont want your plants because they 'could be infected'.


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## southernbelle (Sep 26, 2020)

PeteM said:


> Do you also burn your cutting tools? I use this, in addition to a spray bottle of alcohol to clean tools before I burn and rack them to cool. Mapp burns hotter and faster than propane and bottle are inexpensive online or Home Depot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Pete, interesting that you would mention burning with MAPP. After listening to Keith Davis who recommends this at our VOS meeting last year, I bought a MAPP bottle. I used it once. I did not like the way it discolored the clipper and from what I've read dulls the cutting edge pretty quickly. It's sitting in my basement almost brand new.


PeteM said:


> Ughh. Breaks the heart. Especially after all that growing.. Good eye Werner and Ozpaph. It’s amazing how a seedling could get a virus, especially since you take all the precautions. I’m in the middle of testing my entire collection too, started with the newest plants. I try for every 3 years.
> 
> All kinds of decisions to make. If the plant had some historic significance, that would be the only reason I would think about keeping it. Even then I would probably rehome it to someone who collected virused plants. I personally throw virused plants out. Too much risk to the collection and risk of passing virus on to others.


Well, it didn't take me long, within about 10 minutes, I decided to trash the plant. In it's own plastic bag in the outside garbage.  Sometimes, you just have to cut your losses.


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## southernbelle (Sep 26, 2020)

SouthPark said:


> southernebelle - if you are worried (even a little bit) ----- if ----- then I wouldn't worry about it.
> 
> Viruses are everywhere - just like bacteria. And we humans are like virus/bacteria populating and decimating - messing up the planet (body).
> 
> ...


Interesting perspective. I first tested for virus in a Toshie Aoki 'Pizazz' that had a horrible, very blurred, color pattern. Very different than the plant I saw and ordered. I gave it a couple of bloomings, then tested. Yep, it was virused. Then I had another with weird rings on the flower. Yep virused. I've not had leaf issues show virus before, especially this type of spotting. So it surprised me. Not worth the risk for me to keep the plant. It was not expensive as a seedling. I cannot risk other more valuable plants getting infected. It's already gone.


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## southernbelle (Sep 26, 2020)

Ozpaph said:


> you should burn the plant and test any others that look 'unwell'. Keeping virused plants is a road to unhappiness. Eventually you will regret the decision to keep them and people wont want your plants because they 'could be infected'.


Thanks, Ozpaph. It's already gone.k I will carefully look at any others and test if needed, but don't think there are any more. And, I will continue my diligence with disinfecting.


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## SouthPark (Sep 26, 2020)

southernbelle said:


> Yep virused. I've not had leaf issues show virus before, especially this type of spotting. So it surprised me. Not worth the risk for me to keep the plant. It was not expensive as a seedling. I cannot risk other more valuable plants getting infected. It's already gone.



I think that plant viruses do it real tough too. They probably have a hard time surviving as well. In my under-the-balcony growing area, I just follow what some other growers recommended ...... eg. to not splash water, and not re-use water for watering, and not allow one orchid's sap or juice etc to get from one orchid to another, and use sterile cutting tools etc.

A lot of us growers, including you and everybody here at this forum (and other forums - and everywhere around the world) grow very nice orchids ...... some or many of them being hard to acquire (even if one wanted to get one or buy one --------- hard to find etc). Some are so meaningful or important to a grower - that the orchid may be 'priceless' (as in money does not even count).

If bugs and stuff are in the area, and the orchids are not growing in a place that keeps the orchids completely free of bugs/ants bitey things etc ....... then can always be uncertainty about a plant having a virus in it or not.

'Natural selection' (cliche ---- but we've all heard of it) ------ sort of suggest that no matter what the viruses do, at least some orchids will be immune to particular ones ..... so the orchid family will still keep going ---- as long as the planet (earth) etc remains hospitable for orchids and other living things.

One way to try help avoid a particular orchid from getting put out of action by virus or something else is to make those back-ups. Just as we should back up our treasured data files - digital photos, emails, family videos etc. Even hard-copies should be backed up ----- eg. scanned, transferred to digital, then spread the eggs out into different baskets. Things don't need to end in tears.

SB ----- testing for virus is indeed done by a lot of people for sure. I think for home growers, I just tell them not to stress about uncertainty about virus ....... and just apply growing practices in the growing area that makes it tough for the virus to transfer by fluids from 1 plant to another. Growing orchids should be for stress-relief and relaxation hehe. Always wondering and always testing just takes away some enjoyment I reckon. But each grower has their own approach to growing orchids. It's nice to see and hear how other people look at things. Nice thread.


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## Teresa Koncolor (Sep 27, 2020)

PeteM said:


> Ughh. Breaks the heart. Especially after all that growing.. Good eye Werner and Ozpaph. It’s amazing how a seedling could get a virus, especially since you take all the precautions. I’m in the middle of testing my entire collection too, started with the newest plants. I try for every 3 years.
> 
> All kinds of decisions to make. If the plant had some historic significance, that would be the only reason I would think about keeping it. Even then I would probably rehome it to someone who collected virused plants. I personally throw virused plants out. Too much risk to the collection and risk of passing virus on to others.


You test plants every three years? Even if you test new plants before bringing them into general population? Do you have new positives? Where do you think the infection comes from if new plants are virus free?


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## PeteM (Sep 27, 2020)

Teresa Koncolor said:


> You test plants every three years? Even if you test new plants before bringing them into general population? Do you have new positives? Where do you think the infection comes from if new plants are virus free?



The first time I decided to test my entire collection I found 2-3 plants. Since then I have not found any retesting older plants in the collection. However, I was careful to test all incoming plants, specifically screening plants from older collections or divisions from vendors and always from auctions. I have had many positives for new plants even in plants from other growers who test and cull positive plants. 

I was warned that sometimes there is not enough virus load in the plant to get flagged during the test. Sometimes the test itself fails, some test strips don’t run correctly. You can pick up virus when allowing plants to go to shows or meetings, being handled by multiple people, cleaned up by members not washing hands between plants, packed close and stored for transport, pulled for judging. Coming into contact with other virused plants or tables / stands, unwashed cloth, old wire used for name tags. Old pots that have not been completely sanitized, old metal stakes.

Often times I don’t test all the seedlings from a compot, I’ll only test one. Sometimes I don’t test individual seedlings from larger well know vendors who I know test. Other times I’ll run out of tests and will have to wait until I have the time and finances to purchase more tests.. around $5.75 was the cost of each test last I checked.

I do the best I can and I think it really depends on how many plants you have coming in and out of your collection. I’ll keep you posted if I find any positives this round. It’s been 4 years since I last tested everything.. I’ll probably finish up the majority of testing this fall / winter when I start repotting the phrags and have more time on my hands.

my position on this is a personal choice, I’m just putting this up here for your information. Whatever others chose to do with their own plants is their own personal choice and I respect their space and decisions.


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## southernbelle (Sep 27, 2020)

PeteM said:


> The first time I decided to test my entire collection I found 2-3 plants. Since then I have not found any retesting older plants in the collection. However, I was careful to test all incoming plants, specifically screening plants from older collections or divisions from vendors and always from auctions. I have had many positives for new plants even in plants from other growers who test and cull positive plants.
> 
> I was warned that sometimes there is not enough virus load in the plant to get flagged during the test. Sometimes the test itself fails, some test strips don’t run correctly. You can pick up virus when allowing plants to go to shows or meetings, being handled by multiple people, cleaned up by members not washing hands between plants, packed close and stored for transport, pulled for judging. Coming into contact with other virused plants or tables / stands, unwashed cloth, old wire used for name tags. Old pots that have not been completely sanitized, old metal stakes.
> 
> ...


Pete, I thought virus was only spread through plant sap. Using clippers on one plant, then another without sanitizing or not properly sanitizing pots when reusing. I see the stake thing since you could pierce a root with a stake, but some of the other examples I had no idea about.


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## Teresa Koncolor (Sep 28, 2020)

PeteM said:


> The first time I decided to test my entire collection I found 2-3 plants. Since then I have not found any retesting older plants in the collection. However, I was careful to test all incoming plants, specifically screening plants from older collections or divisions from vendors and always from auctions. I have had many positives for new plants even in plants from other growers who test and cull positive plants.
> 
> I was warned that sometimes there is not enough virus load in the plant to get flagged during the test. Sometimes the test itself fails, some test strips don’t run correctly. You can pick up virus when allowing plants to go to shows or meetings, being handled by multiple people, cleaned up by members not washing hands between plants, packed close and stored for transport, pulled for judging. Coming into contact with other virused plants or tables / stands, unwashed cloth, old wire used for name tags. Old pots that have not been completely sanitized, old metal stakes.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that information. I've been testing my 150 or so orchids. I test all new ones coming in and I've been going around the yard and the house testing by grow area. It is expensive. I do it for culling/making room and because I have enough issues recognising and testing other diseases and cultural problems.
Thanks


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## musa (Sep 29, 2020)

I find that highly interesting! I never heard of a virus test for plants, could anybody please explain the mechanism to me?


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## SouthPark (Sep 29, 2020)

musa said:


> I find that highly interesting! I never heard of a virus test for plants, could anybody please explain the mechanism to me?



For orchids ------ just do a websearch for 'CymMV + ORSV Plant Virus Rapid Test'


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## southernbelle (Sep 29, 2020)

musa said:


> I find that highly interesting! I never heard of a virus test for plants, could anybody please explain the mechanism to me?


Agdia makes one. You can get a 5 test minimum, or one with more. Not cheap, but what it is. 
You cut a piece of leaf about the size of a quarter, macerate it in the solution, then insert the test strip in the solution no deeper than ¼”. In about 3 minutes you know. Kit comes with very specific Instructions—read them carefully. Here is a photo of both tests I did (with the examples of positive/negative tests for comparison). The first one is quite faint (test was recently expired). So I retested. Both show positive for CynMV.


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## southernbelle (Sep 29, 2020)

musa 

Home>Products>Pathogen Tests>Pathogen ImmunoStrip® Tests>ImmunoStrip® for Cymbidium mosaic virus & Odontoglossum ringspot virus (CymMV & ORSV)
ImmunoStrip® for Cymbidium mosaic virus & Odontoglossum ringspot virus (CymMV & ORSV)
ImmunoStrip® for Cymbidium mosaic virus & Odontoglossum ringspot virus (CymMV & ORSV)
5 tests $52 
25 tests $144 
Plus postage.

Here is a great article with photos of different representations of these two viruses on leaves. 




__





Images of Virus on Orchids







staugorchidsociety.org


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## southernbelle (Sep 29, 2020)

PeteM said:


> The first time I decided to test my entire collection I found 2-3 plants. Since then I have not found any retesting older plants in the collection. However, I was careful to test all incoming plants, specifically screening plants from older collections or divisions from vendors and always from auctions. I have had many positives for new plants even in plants from other growers who test and cull positive plants.
> 
> I was warned that sometimes there is not enough virus load in the plant to get flagged during the test. Sometimes the test itself fails, some test strips don’t run correctly. You can pick up virus when allowing plants to go to shows or meetings, being handled by multiple people, cleaned up by members not washing hands between plants, packed close and stored for transport, pulled for judging. Coming into contact with other virused plants or tables / stands, unwashed cloth, old wire used for name tags. Old pots that have not been completely sanitized, old metal stakes.
> 
> ...


Pete:
Where are you getting your tests? Agdia is $52 + postage for 5 tests and $144 for 25 tests + postage. More than $5.75 per test by a lot.


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## PeteM (Sep 29, 2020)

southernbelle said:


> Pete:
> Where are you getting your tests? Agdia is $52 + postage for 5 tests and $144 for 25 tests + postage. More than $5.75 per test by a lot.



144/25= $5.76, depending on how many units you order, pulls the cost of postage down, the postage was $10. So yes a bit more than 5.75. But not a lot more, definitely under $6. Either way these tests are too expensive. If you need to test larger collections I know of others who have gotten the buffer solution from another source and mix it themselves, then you still have to buy the immuno test strips which are $113 for 25. Which I need to look into. Maybe someone has this info on the details of the buffer solution?


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## southernbelle (Sep 29, 2020)

PeteM said:


> 144/25= $5.76, depending on how many units you order, pulls the cost of postage down, the postage was $10. So yes a bit more than 5.75. But not a lot more, definitely under $6. Either way these tests are too expensive. If you need to test larger collections I know of others who have gotten the buffer solution from another source and mix it themselves, then you still have to buy the immuno test strips which are $113 for 25. Which I need to look into. Maybe someone has this info on the details of the buffer solution?


You have to forgive me. I’m in the hospital after hip replacement this morning and obviously not thinking straight. . Goodnight...


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## musa (Sep 30, 2020)

@southernbelle 
Thanks a lot for your explanation and the illustration.
A pitty the test is quite expensive for the idea of testing my whole collection...

Sorry to have bothered you right now, as you have more important things going. I wish you all the best! I'm sure you will walk and run in no time.


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## southernbelle (Sep 30, 2020)

musa said:


> @southernbelle
> Thanks a lot for your explanation and the illustration.
> A pitty the test is quite expensive for the idea of testing my whole collection...
> 
> Sorry to have bothered you right now, as you have more important things going. I wish you all the best! I'm sure you will walk and run in no time.


Not a bother. I have plenty of time right now, it’s just that my brain is foggy from the meds. 
I agree about the expense for a whole collection. THe place to start, your think. is with new acquisitions and gradually check older one.


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## Linus_Cello (Sep 30, 2020)

Maybe your orchid society could sponsor a group buy of the tests to save on shipping and to get a quantity discount?


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## Ray (Sep 30, 2020)

Rega Biotechnology out of Taiwan also sells immunstrips.

I’ve not tried them (nor Agdia’s) but folks say they are a bit less expensive, especially on group buys. I see a few people selling them on eBay.


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## southernbelle (Sep 30, 2020)

Linus_Cello said:


> Maybe your orchid society could sponsor a group buy of the tests to save on shipping and to get a quantity discount?


Great idea, Linus. Thanks.


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## Teresa Koncolor (Sep 30, 2020)

I bought the Rega test kits on eBay and they were not cheaper. The strips results were slower to develop and much harder to read.
The Agdia strips show results as soon as the control line develops. Sometimes one of the virus line results will be a little lighter than the control line, but always unequivocal, whereas the Rega results left me squinting and holding them up to sunlight.


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## NYEric (Sep 30, 2020)

Hmmmm, remarkably similar to COVID situation!


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## PeteM (Sep 30, 2020)

southernbelle said:


> You have to forgive me. I’m in the hospital after hip replacement this morning and obviously not thinking straight. . Goodnight...



Wow. NP, I hope you were able to rest up and your recovery is quick. It's amazing how fast the recovery for these procedures are these day. Some I have heard are even outpatient procedures, which blows my mind. 

BTW, I *laminated* all the charts you sent me, and have them next to my monitor. On breaks I review the tables to see how I can best use the info for the collection. I'll use them for the rest of my life.. Thank you so much for organizing and sending those to me! 

Pete


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## cekroh.sweeps (Sep 30, 2020)

If you have a large collection you need to test, can you approach testing by grouping and sampling several plants with a single test to narrow down possible infected plants (and potentially reduce the number of tests you'd have to employ in the process)?

For example, if I have five new plants coming in, is it feasible to take samples from those five to put into a single test to determine if the whole lot might be virus-free without having to use five tests? So, if the results are negative, you can set aside all five plants as ok. If it's positive, you'd then need to test individually, of course.

I don't know if this can work, but maybe someone has experience with an approach like this.


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## PeteM (Sep 30, 2020)

cekroh.sweeps said:


> If you have a large collection you need to test, can you approach testing by grouping and sampling several plants with a single test to narrow down possible infected plants (and potentially reduce the number of tests you'd have to employ in the process)?
> 
> For example, if I have five new plants coming in, is it feasible to take samples from those five to put into a single test to determine if the whole lot might be virus-free without having to use five tests? So, if the results are negative, you can set aside all five plants as ok. If it's positive, you'd then need to test individually, of course.
> 
> I don't know if this can work, but maybe someone has experience with an approach like this.



This idea actually ran through my head after Fauci mentioned it for COVID. The process of smashing up the leaf and mixing it with the buffer solution so that the solution will still run through the test strip with enough material from all the plants is my only concern.. leaf tips vary greatly, some thin some thick. by the time you smash everything up, you have a green soup with probably a higher viscosity? Not sure at what number plant this method would fail to run correctly. I would probably be comfortable testing 2 at a time myself.


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## eds (Sep 30, 2020)

cekroh.sweeps said:


> If you have a large collection you need to test, can you approach testing by grouping and sampling several plants with a single test to narrow down possible infected plants (and potentially reduce the number of tests you'd have to employ in the process)?
> 
> For example, if I have five new plants coming in, is it feasible to take samples from those five to put into a single test to determine if the whole lot might be virus-free without having to use five tests? So, if the results are negative, you can set aside all five plants as ok. If it's positive, you'd then need to test individually, of course.
> 
> I don't know if this can work, but maybe someone has experience with an approach like this.



I initiated a similar approach when I worked at a microbiology lab many years ago. Instead of testing each sample for Salmonella I pooled samples and then retested any positive pools. I cut the cost of testing to nearly a fifth. However I had a good idea of the average rates of positives from previous testing to be able to work out a reasonable pool size. Get this wrong and put too many plants in and all your pools will come back positive needing more tests! Do too few and you'll barely save enough to warrant the time to retest!

It might be worth picking 10 plants at random and testing them first to establish how widespread any virus might be in your collection before seeing whether pooling would save you any money.


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## southernbelle (Oct 1, 2020)

Teresa Koncolor said:


> I bought the Rega test kits on eBay and they were not cheaper. The strips results were slower to develop and much harder to read.
> The Agdia strips show results as soon as the control line develops. Sometimes one of the virus line results will be a little lighter than the control line, but always unequivocal, whereas the Rega results left me squinting and holding them up to sunlight.


Good to know, thanks.


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## Teresa Koncolor (Oct 1, 2020)

cekroh.sweeps said:


> If you have a large collection you need to test, can you approach testing by grouping and sampling several plants with a single test to narrow down possible infected plants (and potentially reduce the number of tests you'd have to employ in the process)?
> 
> For example, if I have five new plants coming in, is it feasible to take samples from those five to put into a single test to determine if the whole lot might be virus-free without having to use five tests? So, if the results are negative, you can set aside all five plants as ok. If it's positive, you'd then need to test individually, of course.
> 
> I don't know if this can work, but maybe someone has experience with an approach like this.











Virus testing an (entire) orchid collection for CymMV & ORSV: the surprising results at AEO


Orchid viruses are one of the “known mysteries” in orchid growing and collection. They are widely recognized as a concern; any thorough repotting demo or orchid culture talk implores t…




www.aeorchids.com





That link is to an article where they test up to 6 plants together. I did it and it worked. I grouped the paphs since they have a low positive rate. When I tried grouping others then it was a waste because I'd have a positive and have to run all 6 plants separately.


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## southernbelle (Oct 2, 2020)

PeteM said:


> This idea actually ran through my head after Fauci mentioned it for COVID. The process of smashing up the leaf and mixing it with the buffer solution so that the solution will still run through the test strip with enough material from all the plants is my only concern.. leaf tips vary greatly, some thin some thick. by the time you smash everything up, you have a green soup with probably a higher viscosity? Not sure at what number plant this method would fail to run correctly. I would probably be comfortable testing 2 at a time myself.


Pete, I was thinking how hard it would be to test a bunch, as it says to use a sample the size of a quarter dollar. Also, that too large or small a sample could render the test invalid. So if you need a quarter size sample of one to be accurate (not too large or too small), I don’t see how you could use multiple samples and not destroy the integrity of the test.


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## southernbelle (Oct 2, 2020)

PeteM said:


> Wow. NP, I hope you were able to rest up and your recovery is quick. It's amazing how fast the recovery for these procedures are these day. Some I have heard are even outpatient procedures, which blows my mind.
> 
> BTW, I *laminated* all the charts you sent me, and have them next to my monitor. On breaks I review the tables to see how I can best use the info for the collection. I'll use them for the rest of my life.. Thank you so much for organizing and sending those to me!
> 
> Pete


I’m doing well thanks. One night in hospital, home 2 days. Each day I walk better on the walker, of course. No pain at all unless I walk too much (which isn’t much right now), then the muscles scream. One day at a time.
Glad you are enjoying the charts. Did you see my reply To your post above from Sunday about the sources of virus spread? I have a question there. I will repeat it here:

Pete, I thought virus was only spread through plant sap. Using clippers on one plant, then another without sanitizing or not properly sanitizing pots when reusing. I see the stake thing since you could pierce a root with a stake, but some of the other examples I had no idea about. Also, some insects I think can spread them.


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## southernbelle (Oct 2, 2020)

Mistake


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## PeteM (Oct 2, 2020)

southernbelle said:


> Pete, I was thinking how hard it would be to test a bunch, as it says to use a sample the size of a quarter dollar. Also, that too large or small a sample could render the test invalid. So if you need a quarter size sample of one to be accurate (not too large or too small), I don’t see how you could use multiple samples and not destroy the integrity of the test.



Yes. I think you are correct. I doubt we would be able to test more that two and be comfortable with the results without testing the method first, who knows at what point the test would really break down. The best way to find out is to have a plant that tested positive and run tests with it by retesting it with multiple plants.

I believe that you could easily get away with ‘pooling’ only two plants into one test. They probably design their test to provide a certain margin of error to account for the size and thickness of the plant material. It is after all the only variable that changes between their tests.. the size of the plant material cut by the user.

So my thought is, if you could get away with testing just two at a time, that in itself drops the cost of the tests in half, to something that is a little more reasonable for people with a collection of our size.


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## PeteM (Oct 2, 2020)

PeteM said:


> Yes. I think you are correct. I doubt we would be able to test more that two and be comfortable with the results without testing the method first, who knows at what point the test would really break down. The best way to find out is to have a plant that tested positive and run tests with it by retesting it with multiple plants.
> 
> I believe that you could easily get away with ‘pooling’ only two plants into one test. They probably design their test to provide a certain margin of error to account for the size and thickness of the plant material. It is after all the only variable that changes between their tests.. the size of the plant material cut by the user.
> 
> So my thought is, if you could get away with testing just two at a time, that in itself drops the cost of the tests in half, to something that is a little more reasonable for people with a collection of our size.


Also the link above provided by Teresa Koncolor. It has more detail on this. Seems six could be a safe amount as the test was found to be super sensitive.. so they probably already ran these control tests to see how many plants they could fit in a test and be comfortable with the results... that brings the cost of the tests waaay down.


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