# Hydroponic for Phrags



## grasshopper (Jan 3, 2010)

Hi All,
Im thinking of using up some stuff laying around the house and wanted some opinions, I have some of those mesh bucket lids that fit into a 3 or 5 gallon bucket, kind of like a oversized mesh pot. Id like to try some hydroton, diatomite, or rockwool cubes or a mix of all three with a large growing phrag or maybe a "compot" machine, the idea being that it could be watered continously by using a pump or airlift or something, anyone ever try such a idea, seems like at least in theory it would be ideal. Thought Id jab around for feedback before I spent the time. Thanks:wink:


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## Ray (Jan 3, 2010)

1) Use a medium that is quite airy - I would think Hydroton would be the best choice of those 3 (especially considering diatomite is, for all practical purposes, no longer available).

2) You will want to restrict the setup to a single plant, as sharing a common nutrient bath is the best way to share plant pathogens, effectively risking everything planted.

3) Spend some time reading about Semi-Hydroponic Culture, as you'll likely get some good ideas about your whole concept.


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## grasshopper (Jan 3, 2010)

Thanks Ray, 
Ive been to your site and find it very informative, so whats up with diatomite being not available, I use it for phals, neps, phrags it would be terrible if I can no longer get it, as it seems to be a good ingredient in my mix. Maybe I should stock up?


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## Ray (Jan 4, 2010)

If I recall correctly, Maidenwell is no longer mining it, or possibly simply no longer exporting. Joe DiDomenico, owner of DiatomiteUSA, has shut the business down, so as far as I know, it's Dyna-Rok II or a lucky stash somewhere as the only US sources.


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## NYEric (Jan 4, 2010)

put the diatomite or hydroton on the bottom, and rockwool on top. a simple pump like a Fluval 1 from a pet shop will work.


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## grasshopper (Jan 5, 2010)

Curious as to why you say top coat with rock wool? Does it keep added moisture around the top layer? Sorry to hear that about the diatomite, I think its good stuff, I quess ill have to hoard some (LOL)


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## NYEric (Jan 5, 2010)

LOL! I ordered another bag of diatomite last night! 
If you put the rockwool low it will get very soggy, every application w/ rockwool I've seen had it all the way or on top. I'm allergic so I dont use it.


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## cnycharles (Jan 8, 2010)

problem I had with some large s/h pellets was that the top area (for plants that really like wet roots) of the root zone would get drier and emerging roots would have problem. rockwool would keep that top moist. might be good to find a slanted rockwool thing of sorts for propping up climbing besseae-types


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## grasshopper (Jan 9, 2010)

*Hydro phrags*

Hello Everyone,
Thanks everyone for the input. I managed to get some time and whip up a little system to try out with two cheapo phrags. Im excited to see how this works, its basically a modified waterfarm, not wanting to buy anything and use strickly what was around the house this is the result. There is a small pump mounted to the bottom of the mesh pot that pumps the water up a stand pipe, I would have rather used a drip ring style but again didnt want to spend any cash and my wife likes the fountain style thing.....do I need to say anymore(lol) Im shure there could be improvements but I want to see what happens first before I do any more. Im concerned of salt buildup but ill have to wait and see if its an issue, it should have better wicking since it will only have to travel horizontal out from the stand pipe and not vertical like the semi-hydro pots, and airation should be excellent from the constant dripping from the mesh pot to the water below. I may have to experiment with the fertilizer ratio, any sugestions? I started at 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of max sea


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## grasshopper (Jan 9, 2010)

*Hydro phrags*

Whoops, forgot the pix!


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## John D. (Jan 9, 2010)

The issue of salt build up is not hard to deal with. In semi hydro as Ray has indicated the pots are flushed each time they are watered since excess solution is added. In your case, with a closed system, start with your desired concentration and top off with RO or rain water to replace what is lost by evaporation. When you do a complete drain and clean go back with the fert soluntion.


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## grasshopper (Jan 10, 2010)

Hello,
Sounds easy enough, I know this is premature and maybe its my imagination, but they do look rather perky since I moved them....we shall see...If not anything else the water trickling is soothing to my ears


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## Ernie (Jan 10, 2010)

I think they'll do great. 

If they ever have problems, you can use the defibrilator in the background. :rollhappy:

-Ernie


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## NYEric (Jan 10, 2010)

Good luck!


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## grasshopper (Jan 11, 2010)

Thanks!, The stuff in the backgorund is my "geeking" area (LOL)


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## NYEric (Jan 11, 2010)

Funny, I have 13 trays w/ water circulating; if I didn't have that sound I don't think I could sleep for the city noise!


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## grasshopper (Jan 11, 2010)

Oh wow, you using bottom circulation with many pots in a tub?


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## NYEric (Jan 12, 2010)

Yep.


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## grasshopper (Jan 12, 2010)

I assume its working well for you, any pros or cons that are worth mentioning? Do you use a dilute nutrient bath?


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## NYEric (Jan 12, 2010)

Yes, I water w/ ro or 1/6 strength fertilizer. The plants in plastic s/h style pots have to be watered from to since the holes are so high up water can't flow in. Since I use a mixed semi-organic media the breakdown rate is fast and most problems I've had have been from not catching that problem quick enough.


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## grasshopper (Jan 23, 2010)

Thanks, Im going totally inorganic to avoid the problem of rotting mix, after a couple weeks now I started to get a touch of leaf tip burn so I dropped it down to 100ppm ends up being about 1/8 strength. Im seeing some new leaves on both plants and a new growth on one plant, I might really like this setup as I dont have to be continuously watering ...less maintenance. Now im trying to get moss growing on the top for eye appeal over the clay balls.


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## ldrhawke (Jan 27, 2010)

I'm not sure if a hydronic system using a pump and LECA media has any real advantage over a static S/H system that is set up to assure of water wicking up to the bottom of the media and also has a positive flow of moist air across the media as it evaporates? 

IMHO using a system like the Lechuza self water pots assures the water stored below is wicked up and that it has to pass through the LECA as it evaporates. As the moist air moves up it can very effectively condense on the media, as the water evaporates out of the storage zone below the pot. Wicking feeds the root system with fertilized water. 

In contrast, simply setting an open bottom pot, or a pot with open side with LECA in it in a pan of water, the air flow in the pot would be more stagnant, allowing the upper media to dry out much more. It also would not necessarily assure the vapor and a good air movement over all the media all the time as the approach below.

You can see how moist the LECA below the surface remains, with this approach, without the need of a more complex mechanical pumping system, as shown in the last photo below.


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## Ray (Jan 27, 2010)

Can you explain why you think the air and water movement is any better in the Lechuza pot, compared to a standard pot standing in water?


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## ldrhawke (Jan 27, 2010)

Ray said:


> Can you explain why you think the air and water movement is any better in the Lechuza pot, compared to a standard pot standing in water?




Sure. It is Fluidics 101. It is a matter of when fluids flow (air and water) they always take the path of least resistance. 

AIR.....with a regular clay or plastic pot standing in water, the bottom of the pot is closed off from allowing the free flow of air from bottom to top. Air flow requires the air to move from the top, down to the bottom, and back up....this is not the path of least fluid flow resistance and you end up with very little air movement inside the pot and around the roots. This is probably the main reason it is often recommended to add artificial air movement with fans to help make up for this problem.

You can use a clay pot with holes in the side, but then the water vapor will escape out the sides and the LECA will more rapidly dry out, requiring daily watering for many orchids.

Water.....With a pot standing in water, the water in the reservoir dish will more easily evaporate from around the outside bottom edge of the pot because it is exposed to both more air movement , very slightly lower vapor pressure, and less resistance to flow. Plants normally have to be water at least weekly because of rapid water evaporation using this system.

First, I have no financial interest or involvement with Lechuza. I'm not pushing the product. IMHO after studying options I found the Lechuza self water pot has some real advantages, especially for plants that need good gas exchange around the roots. I was looking for a way to avoid high maintenance.

1. The LECA doesn't set in water and the whole screened bottom is open to air for less resistant air flow, thus having higher rate air movement from bottom to top through the LECA.

2. The bottom water reservoir is enclosed around the whole pot, leaving the path of least resistance for water vapor from the reservoir to be through the LECA. Watering the plant then becomes less an issue of depending only on the the LECA wicking up the moisture from bottom to top. With a Lechuza planter main avenue of water vapor escape is through the LECA, where it readily condenses out. The effect of this can easily be seen when the translucent internal pot is removed and you can see the LECA wetted out from the condensing water vapor almost all the way to the top. 

3. The Lechuza planter design, both from the size of the water reservoir and the effective condensing out of vapor on the LECA and recycling condensed water off the LECA, means much less attentive care to properly watering orchids. From what I have see so far it appears I could leave my orchids un-attended for well over a month and not have fear of them dying from lack of water.

4. The pot designs look better than a simple clay pot.


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## SlipperFan (Jan 27, 2010)

Interesting concept. Thanks!


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## NYEric (Jan 27, 2010)

Umm, a major difference might be cost?!


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## Ernie (Jan 27, 2010)

Okay, for point 2, wouldn't the path of least resistace be the gap on the left (in the cartoon above) where the floaty 'water me' thingy is? 

RE: need for fans. Your collection is small at the moment. If/when your collection grows, you'll eventually realize the need for supplementary air movement. 

I agree your system is a good one. It works for you. NYEric's comment on expense could catch up to you as you acquire more and more plants though. It'll become an economic decision eventually. Leave yourself open to "inferior" but acceptable methods as your experience progresses. When you have a couple hundred plants, the semi-hydro method Ray B champions will look pretty attractive.  Works for us too. 

Good growing. Keep it up! 

-Ernie


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## Yoyo_Jo (Jan 28, 2010)

Idrhawke - really Interesting system - I'm looking forward to seeing your future posts showing us how your plants progress. And welcome to Slippertalk too!


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## NYEric (Jan 28, 2010)

Dont both systems also use top watering so the medium is wet from the top down?


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## ldrhawke (Jan 28, 2010)

Ernie said:


> Okay, for point 2, wouldn't the path of least resistace be the gap on the left (in the cartoon above) where the floaty 'water me' thingy is?
> 
> RE: need for fans. Your collection is small at the moment. If/when your collection grows, you'll eventually realize the need for supplementary air movement.
> 
> ...



That opening for the float level indicator would be the path of least resistance for vapor if it wasn't capped off (see photo).

You are right about the planter being more costly than other plastic and clay pot approaches, but I feel the planter design is an important part in showing off the full beauty of an orchid inside my home. (see photos) 

Also I wanted a minimal maintenance system that requires little effort so that I can leave for a month at a time if I want to take off sailing and not have to worry about watering. I could make an automatic watering system with a pump and timer, etc; but that would be nearly as costly in time and money; and from an engineering stand point, simpler is always better.

I have actually slightly modified the original planter design so if I want to take off for even longer periods of time I can set the pots on my patio where they can be directly rained on to help replenish the water reservoir. The problem with the stock planter is a heavy rain could virtually fill the planter to the top with water, beyond the maximum gauge level. This would drown some orchids and kill them, except for slippers. To over come this any planter I put outside I drill a drain hole in the side of the internal container at the maximum gauge water level to avoid the potential of over filling the reservoir from a heavy rain.

I'm not a grower, and I only have a relatively confined living space to grow orchids, and I have no intention of expanding my collection much further, so the investment in planters is made. I am sure many orchid enthusiast spend far more on greenhouses and other support gadgets.


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## ldrhawke (Jan 28, 2010)

NYEric said:


> Dont both systems also use top watering so the medium is wet from the top down?



YES...the best way to refill and flush out both systems is pouring water from the top down. IMHO the Lechuza planter is more effective keeping the LECA wetted out and requires less maintenance.

Another advantage of the Lechuza planter is in using far less water, compared to a simple pot and saucer, you will have far less build up of salts on the LECA.


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## Ray (Jan 28, 2010)

> Sure. It is Fluidics 101. It is a matter of when fluids flow (air and water) they always take the path of least resistance.
> 
> AIR.....with a regular clay or plastic pot standing in water, the bottom of the pot is closed off from allowing the free flow of air from bottom to top. Air flow requires the air to move from the top, down to the bottom, and back up....this is not the path of least fluid flow resistance and you end up with very little air movement inside the pot and around the roots. This is probably the main reason it is often recommended to add artificial air movement with fans to help make up for this problem.



(It's really not nice to talk down to people. There are a lot of educated, knowledgeable folks here. I suspect that was not your intention.)

While I cannot argue with the fluid flow concepts you espouse, I think you have ignored a couple of things.

For one, nature hates a gradient. Therefore, it does a very good job of trying to make the chemistry of the air in spaces in the potting medium and that of the atmosphere around us the same. That natural diffusion might actually be a stronger driving force than that of the "fluid flow" concept. If it wasn't for that natural driving force, open potting media wouldn't dry any faster than more dense ones - the interstitial atmosphere would become saturated, and the evaporation process would stop.

I still fail to see how there is any flow advantage in the Lechuza pot:


> The LECA doesn't set in water and the whole screened bottom is open to air for less resistant air flow, thus having higher rate air movement from bottom to top through the LECA.



Based upon your earlier post, we see that the outer pot is solid, and the "growing chamber" appears to be fairly well sealed against the sides of it when inserted (see link below). That means that it is only the annulus around the float gauge that allows any air movement into or out of that reservoir chamber, and that's pretty small - again making me suspect the natural diffusion is the more important factor.








> YES...the best way to refill and flush out both systems is pouring water from the top down. IMHO the Lechuza planter is more effective keeping the LECA wetted out and requires less maintenance.


Don't you have to lift the growing chamber out of the outer pot to dump and refresh it? That seems like more maintenance to me. Also, don't forget that the waste products - in solution and in the vapor phase - will pollute the water in the reservoir, so going a longer time between "flushes" is a negative.



> Another advantage of the Lechuza planter is in using far less water, compared to a simple pot and saucer, you will have far less build up of salts on the LECA.


Concerning that last comment, if the Lechuza pot uses less water, _of course_ there will be less mineral buildup! That's simply a mass balance. If less mineral-bearing water is being wicked up to the medium, there is less evaporation and simply less solids to precipitate.

In my simple and inexpensive (although far less decorative) semi-hydroponic pots, (made from adapted deli containers), there are two, 1/4" holes in the sidewall that define the upper limit of the reservoir. I would guess those holes to be a larger area that that of the Lechuza annulus, but it might be close to the same. However, as the LECA is sitting in the reservoir, that bottom level will be far more saturated than anything wicked up by a couple of fat strings, so they in turn will "feed" more moisture to the medium above that, and so on and so on, making the liquid fluid flow more dynamic. Plus when you water - rapidly filling the entire pot to the top and letting it drain - you flush the medium and refresh the reservoir chemistry without any additional labor.


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## ldrhawke (Jan 28, 2010)

Ray said:


> (It's really not nice to talk down to people. There are a lot of educated, knowledgeable folks here. I suspect that was not your intention.)



You are correct it was never my intention, so why did you bring it up? Talking down is obviously your intention.



> While I cannot argue with the fluid flow concepts you espouse, I think you have ignored a couple of things.
> 
> For one, nature hates a gradient.


 Sorry, but that's double talk.

Ray I appreciate your opinion. I know you have an investment in pots you want to sell, so I am not surprised you disagree with what I have presented.

As I stated IMHO, I was simply giving some observations and giving my educated opinion about a product I felt the people on this site would like to know about. I am not selling anything and I think you have some good products that work well. My intention was never to discredit your approach.


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## NYEric (Jan 28, 2010)

I grow in mixed media (organic and inorganic) so wet is not an issue.Of greater concern [personally] would be how to finance those pots for the 300+ phrags I have!


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## cnycharles (Jan 28, 2010)

ldrhawke said:


> You are correct it was never my intention, so why did you bring it up? Talking down is obviously your intention.



though your intention may not have been to talk down, the way your previous post was physically aligned and constructed would lead most people to assume that you were, and most likely why ray would point that out. his post (to me) did not seem to be deprecatory to you, but it is surprising in that your reply did contain a bit of 'talking down' (something that from your replies, it would seem that you would not appreciate talking down..). 
it is very easy for internet posts to be misinterpreted especially if someone may not be masters of the language they are posting in or each is unfamiliar with the other's way of phrasing. I was remembering yesterday some exchanges I had had with a woman student way back when email was first introduced and we both escalated quickly to the high-flaming stage!  inexperience with a medium and the other people can be problematic. it's better to get to know people before deciding exactly what someone has meant and make a blanket statement like 'talking down is obviously your intention'. for many people the s/h system works very well and is proven (and I don't have sales interest in the products... and it doesn't work for me specifically because of the certain plants I grow and lack of heating in a cold climate, though it works very well for a fellow orchid club member who isn't worried about spending the extra money to keep his growing area warmer!)

your system looks interesting and has good points. like ray says, metabolic wastes will be retained by a system that has little input and outflow. you likely have robust plants (likely hybrids) that can handle a little dirt around them, species and specialty plants might not handle it as well. I like the idea of using rainwater to fill and flush the reservoir when away on vacation...


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## Ernie (Jan 28, 2010)

ldrhawke said:


> To over come this any planter I put outside I drill a drain hole in the side of the internal container at the maximum gauge water level to avoid the potential of over filling the reservoir from a heavy rain.



How big (volume) are these, or at least the ones that go outside? Where are you and what's your rainfall? I'd imagine that if you got enough rain, the whole thing could still fill with water, right? The rainwater would flow from the inner container through the drilled hole to fill the outer reservoir. If the rain kept coming, it would equalize in both chambers and potentially continue to rise and level off in both. Correct? Could take a biblical flood though? Just making sure I have the design understood. 

-Ernie

P.S. I took your Fluidics 101 etc and "What is your question specifically?" comments a little harshly too, especially from a newcomer that doesn't sign his/her name and has no public profile. I just brushed it off though.


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## McPaph (Jan 29, 2010)

hi grasshopper
your experiment looks great. especially with stuff just lying around the house. I think water changes wood be good every once in a while, depending on how big the reservoir is. 
good luck and keep us posted.

Mick


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## Ray (Jan 29, 2010)

Hawke,

I apologize if you think I was talking down to you. I was merely reacting to my perception of your comment (my background is materials science and engineering), while attempting to have a logical, and truly scientific discussion of functionality. 

First Rays is more of an overgrown hobby than anything else, and if you believe I focus on making money on deli containers, you need to rethink that.

Back to logic and science for a moment: there are advantages and disadvantages in every pot design.

My point in bringing up the S/H pots was merely to contrast their overall workings with those of the Lechuza pots. There is another design out there sold under both "Luwassa" and "Leni" brands that are sort-of in between - like the Lechuza pot, the plant and medium are in a net "culture pot" with a solid plastic reservoir container and float gauge, but more like my S/H pots, the LECA sits directly in the reservoir liquid rather than relying on a string wick. As I stated previously, that arrangement yields a greater mass flow of nutrient bearing liquid upward than a string wick can ever provide.

On the other hand - and something that is far more difficult to do in the Lechuza and impossible in the S/H pot - their reservoirs can be overfilled to the point of drowning the root system.

An additional disadvantage of them (and the S/H pot) is the fact that being in direct contact with the reservoir, the liquid can become more easily contaminated with plant waste products. Fortunately, the design of the S/H pot allows an easy way to deal with that, but the Lechuza, Leni, and Luwassa pots do not. (Hmmm. I guess I need to think of a new name for S/H pots that starts with "L".)

I will acknowledge - again - that the Lucheza and Leni/Luwassa pots are far more aesthetically pleasing than are the deli containers, especially with a nice algae growth, but that can be easily overcome with a pot-cover of some sort. I have plants in the Leni/Luwassa type pots, but tropical house plants, not orchids. When you have a large collection, it's foolish to set yourself up to going from plant to plant reading gauges to determine when you need to water.

Going back to the "more air flow" notion for a moment, I see that the medium ("Lechuza-Pon") used is of a relatively small particle size - probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 1/8-1/4", and is fairly irregular in shape. Combined, those result in denser packing and smaller open spaces between the particles. Those smaller open spaces restrict air flow more than do those in the typical 1/2" or larger LECA particles used in the other growing systems. Smaller spaces can also lead to other "issues" in orchid culture:
"Bridging" water droplets can clog the airways. When one waters, most of the liquid pours through the medium, some of it is absorbed by the particles, and some is held in place between particles by surface tension. If the voids are small, those droplets can completely fill the voids. (I believe it is that phenomenon that led to the lore that "orchids need to dry between waterings". Yeah, a dense medium may need to dry out, but that's to let enough water evaporate so that the bridging water goes away and the roots can breathe again.) I suppose it is fortunate that Lechuza uses a string wick to feed the medium, as if it was in direct contact with the liquid, a fairly large volume of it would be permanently "bridged".


Orchid roots - being somewhat "fat", can also completely fill the voids, leading to self-suffocation.

I suspect that the Lechuza system is ideal for tropical houseplants, especially if your goal is low maintenance. I simply don't see it as being particularly viable for orchids in general (there may be a few for which it's fine). Once you use a medium that is more open for the benefit of the plant, I doubt that the string would wick sufficiently to sustain the moisture content above - especially as the larger spaces mean there will be more airflow and a greater evaporation rate..


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## ldrhawke (Jan 29, 2010)

> I apologize if you think I was talking down to you. I was merely reacting to my perception of your comment (my background is materials science and engineering), while attempting to have a logical, and truly scientific discussion of functionality.



No apology necessary. I was only trying to do the same. I'm also an engineer and hold numerous patents in controlling fluid flow in biological processing that is presently used on a very large scale.



> Back to logic and science for a moment: there are advantages and disadvantages in every pot design.


 I totally agree.



> An additional disadvantage of them (and the S/H pot) is the fact that being in direct contact with the reservoir, the liquid can become more easily contaminated with plant waste products. Fortunately, the design of the S/H pot allows an easy way to deal with that, but the Lechuza, Leni, and Luwassa pots do not.


Lechuza pots can be flushed out easily by simply drilling a hole in the outside container, at the maximum liquid level desired in the internal planter/reservoir, and flushing the media with fresh water/nutrients. This also assure it can't over fill if left outside in the rain. In smaller planters the designed container is the reservoir and in larger planters, it is an insert into the design container. There is little difference between your deli containers in the respect of flushing out the watering reservoir.





It was never my intention to present the Lechuza planters, using LECA media, as a general green house planter for hundreds orchids. I totally agree it would be cost foolish. I presented them as a great way to fit orchids into your living space and not have it look like a Rube Goldberg horticulturist with a bunch of ugly containers distracting from the orchids beauty. And a system that makes it easy for the novice and expert alike to keep orchids in the home; without fear of over/under watering and allowing to leave them unattended for weeks if you go on vacation. It is also very convenient when using the large planters having the pot insert lift out. It makes it easy to swap plants out from outside to inside; when they come into bloom to have a very nice orchid display inside the house, in areas in the house that may not have perfect growing conditions.















> Going back to the "more air flow" notion for a moment, I see that the medium ("Lechuza-Pon") used is of a relatively small particle size - probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 1/8-1/4", and is fairly irregular in shape.


I did not and would not recommend using the finer media that comes with the pots. I used 100% LECA for that exact reason to allow for freer air/water vapor movement. 



> Once you use a medium that is more open for the benefit of the plant, I doubt that the string would wick sufficiently to sustain the moisture content above - especially as the larger spaces mean there will be more airflow and a greater evaporation rate..


Not true and that is the point I was making. In the Lechuza system the water vapor is virtually forced up through the LECA and all you need to do is pick up a planter insert and see how effectively the system condenses water onto the LECA. (see attached photos taken a few minutes ago of a smaller Lechuza insert that has not been watered from the top in a week. The LECA is saturated to with in an inch of the top from the water vapor being directed up through and condensing on the LECA)


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## Ray (Jan 30, 2010)

Hawke - where do you grow?


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## ldrhawke (Jan 30, 2010)

Ray said:


> Hawke - where do you grow?



St.Augustine, Florida Good high humidity place for growing most orchids except for having a few winter cold snaps. Most of my plants are from local orchid nurseries.


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## NYEric (Jan 30, 2010)

Er, if this is your growing area I defer to your wisdom.


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## Ernie (Jan 30, 2010)

Did I miss something? 

-Ernie


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## ldrhawke (Jan 30, 2010)

NYEric said:


> Er, if this is your growing area I defer to your wisdom.



It isn't....I wouldn't want to pay the $1000/night to heat it during a cold snap.:sob:


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## Ray (Jan 30, 2010)

ldrhawke said:


> St.Augustine, Florida Good high humidity place for growing most orchids except for having a few winter cold snaps. Most of my plants are from local orchid nurseries.



That helps explain how thoroughly moist your medium stays. Move to a dry environment, and I'd be willing to be that it wouldn't be quite so.

Up here in PA, we can see seasonal differences.


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## ldrhawke (Jan 30, 2010)

Ray said:


> That helps explain how thoroughly moist your medium stays. Move to a dry environment, and I'd be willing to be that it wouldn't be quite so.
> 
> Up here in PA, we can see seasonal differences.



The only problem with that theory is that I see the same moisture level in the LECA in Lechuza planters I have inside my air conditioned home that has 1/2 the humidity level as outside.


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## grasshopper (Jan 31, 2010)

Hi Mcpaph
Thanks, I simply wanted to use up some stuff around the house into something useful, the reservoir holds about a gollon with a 3 gallon bucket, I change it about every week with a dilute mix of about 100ppm, so far so good, I know it is rather mechanical but again wanted to use up some stuff laying around without being fashionable. I see there has been much discussed since I last posted......I need to catch up, until then...


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## Ray (Jan 31, 2010)

ldrhawke said:


> The only problem with that theory is that I see the same moisture level in the LECA in Lechuza planters I have inside my air conditioned home that has 1/2 the humidity level as outside.



...but of course the lower temperature reduces the evaporation rate, too.


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## ldrhawke (Jan 31, 2010)

Ray said:


> ...but of course the lower temperature reduces the evaporation rate, too.



OK....I give up. Your Dixie cups are the best.


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## NYEric (Jan 31, 2010)

Now now children, play nice!


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## ldrhawke (Jan 31, 2010)

NYEric said:


> Now now children, play nice!



:rollhappy: I just want to see you arrange and stack Dixie cups displaying your beautiful specimen orchids like this.  Obviously a lot of people on this site continue to miss my point...it isn't always only about the utilitarian aspect and joy of growing orchids. It is also about enjoying and displaying the beauty of orchids within your home.


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## cnycharles (Jan 31, 2010)

um, i'm not sure why the drama; both types work in certain situations and of course in other situations they won't. ray has made a simple point that in some cases it may not be optimal. there is no orchid media system that works for every orchid, in every climate, not even the whole hydroponic system you have shown us, which is an interesting one. even ray has said that in some situations the s/h system won't work, and that careful testing needs to be done to find out which orchids may not settle to it. mr. dixie cup seems to have a major problem just admitting that the system that works for him, may not be perfect. (though very intriguing)


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## gonewild (Jan 31, 2010)

ldrhawke said:


> :rollhappy: I just want to see you arrange and stack Dixie cups displaying your beautiful specimen orchids like this.  /IMG]



Your pots are very attractive and do make a better living room presentation than most "growing" pots. But I kind of lost track of what this thread is about... Is it about displaying plants or growing plants? 

You do realize, I assume, that your continued reference to them as "Dixie" cups continues to be sarcastic. I think Dixie cups are in fact somewhat smaller and look completely different? Maybe at least call them Deli containers.

I think there is a lot to learn by comparing the different styles and types of pots used for indoor growing and I would like to see this thread continue on a helpful track.


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## ldrhawke (Jan 31, 2010)

gonewild said:


> Your pots are very attractive and do make a better living room presentation than most "growing" pots. But I kind of lost track of what this thread is about... Is it about displaying plants or growing plants?
> 
> You do realize, I assume, that your continued reference to them as "Dixie" cups continues to be sarcastic. I think Dixie cups are in fact somewhat smaller and look completely different? Maybe at least call them Deli containers.
> 
> I think there is a lot to learn by comparing the different styles and types of pots used for indoor growing and I would like to see this thread continue on a helpful track.



Why is it that it appears that everyone that is trying to sell something seems to be offended by my presenting a slightly different way of growing and displaying orchids? I seem to be a threat to some people! That was never my intent. These blogs often seem to have very obvious commercial under tone rather than open discussion!


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## Paph_LdyMacBeth (Jan 31, 2010)

ldrhawke said:


> :rollhappy: I just want to see you arrange and stack Dixie cups displaying your beautiful specimen orchids like this.




My "Dixie" cups look damn good in these. 
http://www.ikea.com/ca/en/catalog/products/90113088

I can display them for however long I want and return them to my growing area once flowering is done. Plants that grow in front of the window can stay there looking good all the time (still in their dixie cups)


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## NYEric (Jan 31, 2010)

I'm not selling anything nor do I believe anyone was "offended"; I think people are just questioning your system. Hopefully you have an open mind to listen to them also and not feel challenged by the different takes on growing methods.


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## ldrhawke (Jan 31, 2010)

NYEric said:


> I'm not selling anything nor do I believe anyone was "offended"; I think people are just questioning your system. Hopefully you have an open mind to listen to them also and not feel challenged by the different takes on growing methods.



Maybe I should have said "threatened". *It isn't my system! *

I'm the one presenting something that maybe be sightly different than norm, figuring it would be of interest, and I'm challenged by guys selling Dixie cups or should I say Deli containers; so not to offend, and I don't have an open mind? 

At this point I'm really sorry I posted anything. You guys fight it out. I have better things to to. Bye...............


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## grasshopper (Feb 1, 2010)

Isnt the whole point of growing orchids is to admire the beauty of the flowers? If I wanted a nice pot to look at Id just sit one on the coffee table, personally in my conditions, I dont think the fancy pots would stay very moist due to the little strings provided for wicking action...just dont appear that they would be adequate. Although I have not tried one,and they do look nice, with that said Id rather prefer the "dixie" cup method and spend the extra coin on plants that develope flowers to admire!


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## McPaph (Feb 1, 2010)

AWWW! Way To Highjack a thread. 





grasshopper said:


> Hi Mcpaph
> Thanks, I simply wanted to use up some stuff around the house into something useful, the reservoir holds about a gollon with a 3 gallon bucket, I change it about every week with a dilute mix of about 100ppm, so far so good, I know it is rather mechanical but again wanted to use up some stuff laying around without being fashionable. I see there has been much discussed since I last posted......I need to catch up, until then...





Hi grasshopper
That sounds great. You gave me an idea to try this outside with the foantain aspect. keep us posted for any helpful hints you run into. Thanks 

Mick


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## grasshopper (Feb 1, 2010)

Hi McPaph,
I like the fountain idea, that is sort of what it ended up being , just missing the decor. I do have some ideas on how to give it more eye appeal but the cost keeps running up on everything I think of, so I just dont bother. I would be defeating my purpose from the begining..... Sometimes the ugly one is best you know, kind of like that old beatup car that just never died and kept going on and on. So far the phrags like it , I change out the water every week or week and a half, depends on my schedule. There is an attempt at getting some moss growing but Im not shure how that will end up....may just be slime in the end. Any moss input?


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## Ray (Feb 1, 2010)

ldrhawke said:


> Why is it that it appears that everyone that is trying to sell something seems to be offended by my presenting a slightly different way of growing and displaying orchids? I seem to be a threat to some people! That was never my intent. These blogs often seem to have very obvious commercial under tone rather than open discussion!



Please don't assign motives based upon a few typed words.

Folks who know me - I've met a few here, and certainly communicated with many more for a long time - understand that my desire in participating in these discussions is to bring a broader, practical, more thorough and scientific understanding of orchid culture to as many as possible, and not based upon commercial interests. You might note, for example, that my response the the original post in this thread recommended that the individual use Hydroton when I really do have a larger financial stake in PrimeAgra. Yes, depending upon the locale and growing conditions, PrimeAgra might have been a better brand of LECA to use, but it wasn't relevant to the conversation.

My mentioning of the S/H pots was to contrast it to the Lechuza pot, which you appeared to claim was the best in all ways for hydroculture, using explanations that did not appear to consider all of the facts. Nothing more. You seem to be the one "threatened" by that.

One of the great things about this particular forum is that we all feel free to openly discuss all sorts of topics that are really pertinent - you should go find the paph nutrition megathread - with the confidence that differences of opinion will be discussed and analyzed based upon cold, hard facts. With that being the mindset of most of us here, and reflecting upon someone else's earlier comments - and please try to think about this a objectively - how much weight should one put on the comments of someone whose MO includes:


 making blanket statements
 talking down to others
 remains totally anonymous
 uses photos of someone else's greenhouse when supposedly describing his or her own growing conditions, and 
uses unverifiable claims of applicable credentials
I'm beginning to think you really do have a stake in Lechuza, and THAT was your whole point in joining this discussion!


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## goldenrose (Feb 2, 2010)

:clap::clap:
Is this really the end?
I certainly can appreciate pretty pots but for some of us addicts I think we'd rather spend the money on more plants!!!


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## etex (Feb 3, 2010)

For tabletop/home display,I just slip the potted orchid in my ecopots from Kalapana Tropicals! That way, favored blooms can be seen at dining room table, coffee table,bedside table and in the guest bedroom.


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## Ray (Feb 3, 2010)

Yeah, I have collected a variety of covers fro when the plants are in bloom and in the house - pot covers, cache pots, brass trash cans, etc.


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## gonewild (Feb 3, 2010)

Ray said:


> Yeah, brass trash cans, etc.



Oh come on Ray, at this point in this thread don't suggest people put the "dixie" cups into a trash can for display!
:rollhappy:


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## Paph_LdyMacBeth (Feb 3, 2010)

gonewild said:


> Oh come on Ray, at this point in this thread don't suggest people put the "dixie" cups into a trash can for display!
> :rollhappy:



:rollhappy: Skip the dixie cup...just use the trash can, but maybe stick a straw down one side for better air movement...or something like that :evil:


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## Yoyo_Jo (Feb 3, 2010)

I think that glass tube is actually for monitoring water level in the reservoir, isn't it? I've seen something similar with a system called "Gemma Waterstones."


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