# Very limited anecdotal evidence, but...



## Ray (Mar 4, 2022)

The technical director at Kelpak in South Africa told me he was experimenting with spraying flower buds to see if it made any difference. With my very limited collection of plants these days, I don't have a lot of "Guinea pigs", but a Phrag. Lucky Girl "volunteered". I've had the plant a couple of years now, after receiving it as a gift from another grower. Like some phrags, it has a penchant for dropping one blossom shortly after a new one opens. With one blossom fully opened, and a bud close to opening, I sprayed the top 6" of the spike with a 1:250 solution, hoping to see if the next blossom looked any different. 

The answer appears to be "no", but I'm now twenty days into the first blossom, and it is still hanging in there. 

I know that this might be pure coincidence, but I'm throwing this out there in case anyone wishes to experiment.


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## terryros (Mar 4, 2022)

Did you fully spray the open bloom or try and just focus on the ”stem”?


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## Ray (Mar 4, 2022)

Terry, I was aiming for the bud, but my sprayer was too broad, and I decided to spray the blossom, bud and vegetative part of the spike. The bud in the photo had not emerged at that point.


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## terryros (Mar 4, 2022)

Abscission of flowers is under genetic/chemical control and with some quick reading I saw that some auxin fluxes were involved. It would be easy to imagine that Kelpmax could alter the signaling and delay the abscission of some flowers. Since it looks like abscission takes place at the junction of the inflorescence with the stem maybe getting it into the base of the inflorescence is the important place. May not need to get into the bud/flower. Spraying the stem inflorescence before flower opening might buy some extra time. How about an extra week or two that Cattleya dowiana could be open! I think I will do some fiddling with it.


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## abax (Mar 4, 2022)

Interesting Ray. Your 'Lucky Girl' is very different from the one I have...much more red. Mine is more of a deep salmon pink. I love these little surprises.


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## southernbelle (Mar 6, 2022)

terryros said:


> Abscission of flowers is under genetic/chemical control and with some quick reading I saw that some auxin fluxes were involved. It would be easy to imagine that Kelpmax could alter the signaling and delay the abscission of some flowers. Since it looks like abscission takes place at the junction of the inflorescence with the stem maybe getting it into the base of the inflorescence is the important place. May not need to get into the bud/flower. Spraying the stem inflorescence before flower opening might buy some extra time. How about an extra week or two that Cattleya dowiana could be open! I think I will do some fiddling with it.


Please report back, Terry.


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## BrucherT (Mar 6, 2022)

Ray said:


> The technical director at Kelpak in South Africa told me he was experimenting with spraying flower buds to see if it made any difference. With my very limited collection of plants these days, I don't have a lot of "Guinea pigs", but a Phrag. Lucky Girl "volunteered". I've had the plant a couple of years now, after receiving it as a gift from another grower. Like some phrags, it has a penchant for dropping one blossom shortly after a new one opens. With one blossom fully opened, and a bud close to opening, I sprayed the top 6" of the spike with a 1:250 solution, hoping to see if the next blossom looked any different.
> 
> The answer appears to be "no", but I'm now twenty days into the first blossom, and it is still hanging in there.
> 
> ...


Wow. I want to follow this experiment!


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## BrucherT (Mar 6, 2022)

Ray said:


> The technical director at Kelpak in South Africa told me he was experimenting with spraying flower buds to see if it made any difference. With my very limited collection of plants these days, I don't have a lot of "Guinea pigs", but a Phrag. Lucky Girl "volunteered". I've had the plant a couple of years now, after receiving it as a gift from another grower. Like some phrags, it has a penchant for dropping one blossom shortly after a new one opens. With one blossom fully opened, and a bud close to opening, I sprayed the top 6" of the spike with a 1:250 solution, hoping to see if the next blossom looked any different.
> 
> The answer appears to be "no", but I'm now twenty days into the first blossom, and it is still hanging in there.
> 
> ...


When you do this, how would you characterize the spraying? Light mist? Or drenching ‘til it drips? Thank you.


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## Ray (Mar 6, 2022)

BrucherT said:


> When you do this, how would you characterize the spraying? Light mist? Or drenching ‘til it drips? Thank you.


(Of course) Somewhere in-between, with two sprayings, so-far. A third bud is just opening, and the other two are still hanging in, so they may get another dose this afternooon.


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## terryros (Mar 6, 2022)

Ray, help me be arbitrary, but standardized for my trials. You think spray the end of a stem/inflorescence with buds before they open? Spray maybe weekly as the inflorescence elongates and new buds appear?


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## Ray (Mar 7, 2022)

It’s all uncharted waters in my book, Terry, and your guess is as good as mine. Your guesstimated regimen sounds pretty solid, although my spraying has been about every 3-4 days. I have two more phrags spiking, Sorcerer’s Apprentice (from Hadley) that may be a decent candidate for further experimentation, and a single-growth QF Haila, but I want to see where that goes _au naturel _at first.

In my current situation, one flower had been fully open for more than a week when I sprayed it, and fully grown bud whose pedicel had not full extended. Looking again, it was more like 9” of the inflorescence that was covered, as well.

I did notice that the pedicel elongation and bud opening appeared to have accelerated after spraying, but again, that’s just a gut feel, not something I was looking for.

More speculation: it seems to me that the sooner the spike is sprayed, the more likely that it will have some effect, although what that effect is may vary.


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## terryros (Mar 7, 2022)

Don’t you think that hormonal/chemical manipulation of a growing inflorescence is likely to affect more than one process? If our main desire is to delay the process of flower abscission, but not mess up the flowering itself, we may have to be careful about where and when to apply. We certainly don’t want deformed flowers (what you were looking for). I am thinking about frequent Q-tip application of solution to the spike area just below a bud as it is opening and the beginning part of the flower stem.


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## Ray (Mar 7, 2022)

I certainly agree that timing has to be a factor. My last comment was about affecting any change, not just blossom longevity.

I have no idea if the “dab” technique would be as effective as the spray has (apparently) been. Here’s today’s image


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## Joost (Mar 7, 2022)

it will help if your plant is able to quickly turn it in to sugars for the flower(s)


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## Joost (Mar 7, 2022)

Joost said:


> it will help if your plant is able to quickly turn it in to sugars for the flower(s)


i see kelpak is marketed by BesGrow, so you could ask Xavier Garreau de Loubresse as he is associated with BesGrow


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## Joost (Mar 7, 2022)

terryros said:


> Abscission of flowers is under genetic/chemical control and with some quick reading I saw that some auxin fluxes were involved. It would be easy to imagine that Kelpmax could alter the signaling and delay the abscission of some flowers. Since it looks like abscission takes place at the junction of the inflorescence with the stem maybe getting it into the base of the inflorescence is the important place. May not need to get into the bud/flower. Spraying the stem inflorescence before flower opening might buy some extra time. How about an extra week or two that Cattleya dowiana could be open! I think I will do some fiddling with it.


any commercial ethylene blocker will do that, although the effect will be days not weeks


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## terryros (Mar 7, 2022)

I have never seen how a hobby grower with a moderate sized collection could get a reasonable amount of commercial ethylene blocker to easily and safelyapply? Since I already have KelpMax from Ray, I am hoping there is magic in there to help with flowering and how long the flowers last. Of course it won’t live up to my dreams but fun to try.


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## terryros (Mar 7, 2022)

I have a Phrag Fritz Schomburg and Phrag Jerry Lee Fischer both making initial buds that will be getting the treatment.


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## Sky7Bear (Mar 8, 2022)

Wonder if it would slow down senescence on Dracula


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## Joost (Mar 9, 2022)

terryros said:


> I have never seen how a hobby grower with a moderate sized collection could get a reasonable amount of commercial ethylene blocker to easily and safelyapply? Since I already have KelpMax from Ray, I am hoping there is magic in there to help with flowering and how long the flowers last. Of course it won’t live up to my dreams but fun to try.


colloidal sliver can do this
kelp will give you aminoacids the advantage being the plant it self can save energy producing them

the effects i have seen so far have always been very limited and not very clear
but that should not keep you from trying!


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## southernbelle (Mar 9, 2022)

Joost: 
“colloidal sliver can do this”. Are you saying spritz blooms with colloidal silver? Concentrate or diluted?


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## Ray (Mar 9, 2022)

Joost said:


> colloidal sliver can do this
> kelp will give you aminoacids the advantage being the plant it self can save energy producing them
> 
> the effects i have seen so far have always been very limited and not very clear
> but that should not keep you from trying!


Have you tried Kelpak or other brands?

One thing to keep in mind: there are two products sold under the “Kelpak” trade name, one is the biostimulant, which is what this thread is about, and the other is a fertilizer, which I have never used not seen much abo7t.


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## Ray (Mar 16, 2022)

An update: the first blossom dropped today, meaning it lasted 32 days. I’ll be honest that I don’t know what the average blossom lifespan for this plant has been the prior two times it bloomed, but it _seems_ a lot longer this time, and it has certainly carried more blossoms at a time.


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## DrLeslieEe (Mar 19, 2022)

Looks like the experiment worked to extend the flower life on your Phrag. Floral auxins seems to be affected by these kelp hormones to play a role in its longevity. I’m interested to hear more on these empirical experiments by others. Perhaps I’ll try myself too.


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## Ray (Mar 19, 2022)

FWIW, I have a Phrag Sorcerer’s Apprentice coming into bloom, and I sprayed the first bud a few days before it opened. I got the division from Hadley about 2006 or -7, and it has grown , bloomed, and been divided several times since then, and - again, “gut feel” only - it appears to have longer petals than it ever has had before…


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## Ray (Mar 28, 2022)

My Sorcerer’s Apprentice is now 10 days into carrying two flowers, which is easily a week longer than I’m used to, and the Lucky Girl, having lost the first blossom, opened another, so is continuing with three...

I shared my observations with the technical director of Kelpak, and he responded:

"_That is an excellent result!! I may have told you in the past that we found a large amount of polyamines and phlorotannins in Kelpak and that we believe that these compounds are responsible for some of the effects we see with Kelpak application.

I believe the effect that you are seeing can be attributed to the polyamines. The are known to aid in flower formation, and play a vital role in stress mitigation in plants. They are also known for their anti-senescence effect! Many years ago, there was a publication that showed that the shelf-life of tomatoes and cucumbers were extended by 7 days with the application of Kelpak. Now that we are learning more about polyamines, these observations make more sense._"


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## NYEric (Mar 28, 2022)

Nerds!


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## Ray (Mar 29, 2022)

Yes, and proud of it.


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## southernbelle (May 4, 2022)

Ray, I’ve never bloomed this plant before as it came to me in spike but I did put KelpMax solution on the spike where the flower stem joins it once, about 3 weeks ago. It opened and is still open 2 days after the second flower opened. Phrag. Susan Kulhavi (Saint Oven ‘Ice Queen’ JC/AOS x andrettae ‘Ghostly’). Will report again when flower drops.


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## southernbelle (May 6, 2022)

Well I rejoiced too soon. The first flower fell this morning. So, basically 1 ½ days after second flower opened.


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## Ray (May 7, 2022)

When I tried, I thoroughly sprayed (wetted) everything in the top 9” of the flower spike - spike, flowers and buds.


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## masaccio (May 8, 2022)

Hmmm. I might try this on my micranthum flower. How long do they usually last? I seem to remember reading somewhere, "not long." It's been open since 4/27.


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## Ray (May 11, 2022)

Woo hoo! Finally! My first load of Kelpak 1L bottles left the California warehouse yesterday, so I should have them late next week.


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