# Hybrid or Species?



## heliomum (Mar 4, 2008)

The orchid Phrag. kovachii is very cool. Yet I have seen two different types of pictures. Some show a huge flower that's a light lavender color. Some pictures show a smaller flower that looks similar to Paph. armeniacum except that it is very dark purple. I know that hybrids have been made with it and Phrag. bessae and a few other species. So which of these photos is a hybrid and which one is a species?:sob:


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## smartie2000 (Mar 4, 2008)

Phrag kovachii probably varies like any other phrag.
I have not seen any photos of kovachii hybrids with deep purple so I think you are refering to the species, though I have seen deep pinks. kovachii x besseae are rather dull in colour.

Based on my experience, kovachii as a species is difficult and really requires patience. I have also bought hybrids and they grow just like a normal phrag. However my kovachii seedling just came out of flask while kovachii hybrids were grow to 6inch leaf span before I got them, so there are some age variables.


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## silence882 (Mar 4, 2008)

The blooms of Phrag. kovachii change as they age. They open a deep purple and relatively flat, but fade, grow a little, and reflex as they age. Here are some pics for comparison.

Young bloom:
http://www.slipperorchids.info/phragdatasheets/kovachii/Phragkovachii(youngbloom).jpg

Older Bloom:
http://www.slipperorchids.info/phragdatasheets/kovachii/Phragkovachii(topview).jpg

--Stephen


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## heliomum (Mar 4, 2008)

Thank You!


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## NYEric (Mar 5, 2008)

heliomum said:


> Some pictures show a smaller flower that looks similar to Paph. armeniacum except that it is very dark purple.


Wha?


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## slippertalker (Mar 5, 2008)

smartie2000 said:


> Phrag kovachii probably varies like any other phrag.
> I have not seen any photos of kovachii hybrids with deep purple so I think you are refering to the species, though I have seen deep pinks. kovachii x besseae are rather dull in colour.
> 
> Based on my experience, kovachii as a species is difficult and really requires patience. I have also bought hybrids and they grow just like a normal phrag. However my kovachii seedling just came out of flask while kovachii hybrids were grow to 6inch leaf span before I got them, so there are some age variables.



I haven't seen any deep purple kovachii hybrids either.... I do have to disagree with your assessment of kovachii x besseae. The pictures I have seen are rich orange like besseae or a lovely soft rose pink. Neither of them are dull in color.

The hybrids are easier to grow than the species, but that is true for most hybrids. Kovachii is not difficult if you grow them cool with somewhat wet feet and a bit higher PH. I find that they are easier from flask than besseae in my experience.


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## smartie2000 (Mar 5, 2008)

slippertalker said:


> Kovachii is not difficult if you grow them cool with somewhat wet feet and a bit higher PH. I find that they are easier from flask than besseae in my experience.



I haven't tried besseae from flask yet to compare.
I have them in sphag. you think the pH may be too low then? Could I add lime?


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## slippertalker (Mar 5, 2008)

I originally put mine in medium size bark, medium perlite, charcoal and NZ moss, then gave them water from the bottom. (in a tray). This enabled me to keep them wet without the mix breaking down as it would in smaller sized particles. This mix will get a bit more acidy over time especially as the bark ages and the moss also has that effect. They do appreciate a chunky mix.

I have recently added oyster shell to the mix to keep the PH up.You can buy it at a feed store or a pet shop. You could also use eggshells or calcium chips for the same purpose. It only needs to compose about 5% of the mix or so. Phrag kovachii is a rare example of a need for high PH in phrags. Many people also add oyster shell to brachypetalums.


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## heliomum (Mar 5, 2008)

*Clarification*

A lot of people are confused by my description, so here is the link to the photo I'm referring to.



http://www.orchidspecies.com/phragkovatchii.htm


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## gonewild (Mar 5, 2008)

heliomum said:


> A lot of people are confused by my description, so here is the link to the photo I'm referring to.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.orchidspecies.com/phragkovatchii.htm



That is just a very bad photo and does not represent the true color of kovachii. The photos posted previously in this thread are accurate. There is very little color variation within the species so the photos you see of different colors are most likely either poorly exposed (incorrect digital white balance) or just altered to fool someone into buying something that does not exist.


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## NYEric (Mar 6, 2008)

I see what you mean, it is truly taken at a bad angle. I think they had my camera that day.


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## gonewild (Mar 6, 2008)

NYEric said:


> I see what you mean, it is truly taken at a bad angle. I think they had my camera that day.



Light is coming from behind the flower which has caused some under exposure and the bright background caused even more, which in turn makes the flower color darker. The flower also looks like it has been in someones pocket for a while. Likely it is a wild flower photographed in town so probably not opened naturally.

No Eric, they did not have your camera that day, your exposures are all good, you just gotta practice your focus aim. :wink:


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## NYEric (Mar 6, 2008)

It has a mind of it's own; I swear!


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## gonewild (Mar 6, 2008)

You just need to speak softly to it so it thinks you are its friend and then figure out how to trick it into focus......or buy it a pair of glasses.


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## Hien (Mar 6, 2008)

NYEric said:


> It has a mind of it's own; I swear!



I agree with you , Eric.
My camera always seems to focus on the darn background wall by itself.


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## smartie2000 (Mar 6, 2008)

it has a mind of its own when I do very small macro shots (mini orchids). it focus on the background (which is black fabric lol). So I point the camera somewhere close like my carpet, hold the focus and then shoot the mini


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## NYEric (Mar 6, 2008)

This camera thing is so frustrating I'm going to give it to eOrchids at the SEPOS and see what he comes up with. Maybe I'll do a comparison test and post here so we can guess who the photog is! :rollhappy:


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## heliomum (Mar 6, 2008)

Remember that photo is copyrighted. It says on that website that he will come after anyone who posts his photos without permission. So only put in the link.


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## kentuckiense (Mar 6, 2008)

heliomum said:


> Remember that photo is copyrighted. It says on that website that he will come after anyone who posts his photos without permission. So only put in the link.



I don't see anyone even mentioning posting said photos. So, basically, I'm confused.


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## Candace (Mar 6, 2008)

I think helio is talking about orchidspecies.com Usually people are pretty open about inserting photos in forums for educational purposes. It's the photo swiping for commercial sales that gets the hackles up.


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## SlipperFan (Mar 7, 2008)

Candace said:


> I think helio is talking about orchidspecies.com Usually people are pretty open about inserting photos in forums for educational purposes. It's the photo swiping for commercial sales that gets the hackles up.


You got that right!!!


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## SlipperKing (Mar 27, 2008)

http://www.orchidspecies.com/orphotdir/phragmikovatchii.jpg

What about this PIC? Are we still poorly exposed? Young flower right?


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## NYEric (Mar 27, 2008)

I think the dark purple - maroon one is nice, but maybe an older flower.


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## Roth (Mar 27, 2008)

Not my plant, and not in Europe or South America


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## SlipperFan (Mar 27, 2008)

SlipperKing said:


> http://www.orchidspecies.com/orphotdir/phragmikovatchii.jpg
> 
> What about this PIC? Are we still poorly exposed? Young flower right?


Looks to me as if the red has been enhanced. Maybe not deliberately -- could be an effect of the kind of light/camera used. But when I bring the image into Photoshop, there is definitely a bias toward red.


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## SlipperKing (Mar 28, 2008)

SlipperFan said:


> Looks to me as if the red has been enhanced. Maybe not deliberately -- could be an effect of the kind of light/camera used. But when I bring the image into Photoshop, there is definitely a bias toward red.



OK, cool, Thanks Dot


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## Roth (Mar 28, 2008)

I think it is the natural color of a flower made by a dehydrated/stressed plant. I have seen happening with wild fairrieanum, if they have a reduced root system, they tend to make much darker flowers as a result of that water stress.


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