# paphiopedilum Ho Chi Minh forma album ?



## Hakone (Jan 5, 2010)

new hybrid delenatii album x vietnamense album in flask :rollhappy:


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## likespaphs (Jan 5, 2010)

neat!
i don't entirely understand genetics, but will some be album and others be normal colors?


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## Ernie (Jan 5, 2010)

Looks like a good number of those are albino from the leaf bases. 

-Ernie


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## emydura (Jan 5, 2010)

Ernie said:


> Looks like a good number of those are albino from the leaf bases.
> 
> -Ernie



But if both parents are album shouldn't all the seedlings be album?

David


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## nikv (Jan 5, 2010)

emydura said:


> But if both parents are album shouldn't all the seedlings be album?
> 
> David


I'm not a geneticist, but it does depend upon the genes involved in the albinism. It's quite possible to have two album species crossed and produce all normal offspring.


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## Drorchid (Jan 5, 2010)

In this case I am guessing it will be the same gene, and by the looks of the foliage they will be all 100% albino.

Let us know when they bloom. Can't wait....

Robert


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## biothanasis (Jan 5, 2010)

cool!!!!!!!!!!


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## etex (Jan 5, 2010)

Looks nice!!


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## Ernie (Jan 5, 2010)

Yes, if the albinism matches up on the same gene(s) and loci in both parents, they will all be albino. Pretty easy to imagine since del and viet are so closely related. 

For the record, albino del is properly Paph. delenatii fma. albinum. 

-Ernie


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## NYEric (Jan 6, 2010)

From Orchid Inn?


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## nikv (Jan 6, 2010)

I did a little research this evening and found a section in _Novelty Slipper Orchids - Breeding and Cultivating Paphiopedilum Hybrids_ (Koopowitz and Hasegawa, 1991) on pages 39 - 41. It explains the various groups of species which exhibit albinism and how they intereact when crossed. One thing that I learned was that it's possible for two different (collected) albino clones of the same species when crossed may end up with normal colored offspring! Another tidbit that I read stated that expression of color for the warts on the petals may be under different genetic controls than for the petals and sepals. Anyway, the book is quite an interesting read!


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## GaryB (Jan 6, 2010)

Ernie said:


> Yes, if the albinism matches up on the same gene(s) and loci in both parents, they will all be albino. Pretty easy to imagine since del and viet are so closely related.
> 
> For the record, albino del is properly Paph. delenatii fma. albinum.
> 
> -Ernie



Assuming that the flowers are just white, why albinum and not album? Doesn't the designation albinum allow green and/or yellow to be present and album is white and only white? If my previous statements are correct, albinum would be acceptable for a white flower, but wouldn't album be the better choice since it more accurately describes the flower?

Gary

PS - Thanks for the enjoyable presentation to the Madison Orchid Guild last month.


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## Hakone (Jan 6, 2010)

NYEric said:


> From Orchid Inn?



made in germany


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## likespaphs (Jan 6, 2010)

GaryB said:


> Assuming that the flowers are just white, why albinum and not album? ....




an old thread. i didn't read all of it so i hope it didn't go too far off topic.....
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=915&highlight=alba+album


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## Drorchid (Jan 6, 2010)

GaryB said:


> Assuming that the flowers are just white, why albinum and not album? Doesn't the designation albinum allow green and/or yellow to be present and album is white and only white? If my previous statements are correct, albinum would be acceptable for a white flower, but wouldn't album be the better choice since it more accurately describes the flower?
> 
> Gary
> 
> PS - Thanks for the enjoyable presentation to the Madison Orchid Guild last month.



I had the same question not too long ago:

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2899

Now that I think about it, I think Guido decided to go with the term albinum, because if you look at the flower there are yellow pigments present (on the staminodal shield). If the staminodal shield was all white, it should have been album

Robert


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## Ernie (Jan 6, 2010)

GaryB said:


> Assuming that the flowers are just white, why albinum and not album? Doesn't the designation albinum allow green and/or yellow to be present and album is white and only white? If my previous statements are correct, albinum would be acceptable for a white flower, but wouldn't album be the better choice since it more accurately describes the flower?
> 
> Gary
> 
> PS - Thanks for the enjoyable presentation to the Madison Orchid Guild last month.



Gary,

Enjoyed my quick visit to Madison. Always a good time. 

To answer your question bluntly, "because that's what it is _validly_ named". 

The Good Doc gives a view of _why_ it _was_ called albinum, but...
Seriously, if someone wanted to describe an albino slipper as fma. vinicolor, they could as long as they did it properly and accroding to the rules outlined in the International Code of Botanical Nomenclature (or its Cultivated Plants version). People don't do that because it's just silly, not because there's a rule against it. There are no guidelines to the exact name one _should_ give a taxon, just the manner in which it is done. The grammatical rules of the language used (gender etc) also hold. That is why there are _no_ alba Paphs, just album. Make sense? Paphiopedilum and album; Cattleya and alba... see the endings? They are important in Latin, Greek, and many other languages (except English  ). 

-Ernie


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## Ernie (Jan 6, 2010)

Shoot, even Olaf calls Paphs alba once in a while in posts. It makes me grind my teeth, but it's the "street lingo".  

-Ernie


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## SlipperFan (Jan 6, 2010)

Ernie said:


> Paphiopedilum and album; Cattleya and alba... see the endings? They are important in Latin, Greek, and many other languages (except English  ).
> 
> -Ernie


That's how I remember these. I think Paul Phillips pointed that out some time ago in a Slippertalk thread.


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## NYEric (Jan 7, 2010)

Hakone said:


> made in germany



I see, Sam had some similar flasks on his catalog last year.


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## Hakone (Jan 23, 2010)

deflask today


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## KyushuCalanthe (Jan 23, 2010)

What ever they are properly called, your seedlings look great Hakone!


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## NYEric (Jan 24, 2010)

send me some!


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## Bolero (Jan 24, 2010)

Very exciting, they look pretty good.


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## Hakone (Sep 11, 2012)

From friend in bud


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## eggshells (Sep 11, 2012)

Exciting.


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## chrismende (Sep 11, 2012)

Great reminders in this thread! I'm waiting in excitement for this grex to bloom, too!


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## NYEric (Sep 12, 2012)

Wow! Mine look about the same size! Good luck.


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## Kramer Chids (Sep 12, 2012)

That is an awesome and rare cross. I wish I had a few in the collection.


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## NYEric (Sep 12, 2012)

Really!?....:evil:


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## Kramer Chids (Sep 12, 2012)

Eric? Hmmmm...so can I translate your post that you are going to send me some? Please let me know when you need my address. Oh, and please know that I will be happy to cover the shipping. oke:


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## Ozpaph (Sep 13, 2012)

that's exciting.


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## NYEric (Sep 13, 2012)

Kramer Chids said:


> Eric? Hmmmm...so can I translate your post that you are going to send me some? Please let me know when you need my address. Oh, and please know that I will be happy to cover the shipping. oke:



Remember the barter system? :evil:


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## Dido (Sep 17, 2012)

So the one at Popow is going to bloom, 
lets hopw that it is working. 

Its still under the same light as mexipedium if I see right???


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## NYEric (Sep 17, 2012)

It would be nice to get a photo when that happens!


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## Dido (Sep 17, 2012)

I will be in 2 months around him again, so this could be the right time if we have luck. At least I will tell him to think on me with a photo


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## NYEric (Sep 17, 2012)

Think on _*us*_!


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## Berthold (Mar 6, 2013)

It's coming up


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## wjs2nd (Mar 6, 2013)

Very exciting! Now we just need to wait.


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## SlipperKing (Mar 6, 2013)

Wow everybody in Europe has this cross!


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## Ozpaph (Mar 6, 2013)

looking good


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## Berthold (Mar 6, 2013)

SlipperKing said:


> Wow everybody in Europe has this cross!



The cross was made here. But don't worry Europe is a small area only.


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## NYEric (Mar 7, 2013)

Keep us posted.


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## Berthold (Mar 31, 2013)

Still three more weeks


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## Erythrone (Mar 31, 2013)

nice plant!


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## Ozpaph (Mar 31, 2013)

waiting.......................


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## abax (Mar 31, 2013)

The foliage is lovely...clean up those bottom leaves! I've got a feeling that
the flower deserves excellent presentation. Also waiting.........


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## NYEric (Apr 1, 2013)

Nice. Be very careful.


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## Dido (Apr 3, 2013)

one of mine could get a bud too, at least the leave which is startung could hide a bud.....

Cross fingers fro you Bethold


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## Berthold (May 6, 2013)

plant is reducing development speed, may be due to a light infection of the root system.
But every thing else is still perfect.


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## NYEric (May 6, 2013)

Teasing us!  Good luck.


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## Dido (May 6, 2013)

we keep on waiting. 

Hope to see the flower soon. 

No delenatii alba need ever so much time to open.


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## Ozpaph (May 6, 2013)

hope it lifts its head


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## KyushuCalanthe (May 9, 2013)

Ozpaph said:


> hope it lifts its head



And its wings. Looks indeed to be a pure alba.


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## Berthold (May 14, 2013)

It's moving again and now in the correct direction


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## NYEric (May 14, 2013)

Nice. Small pouch, that is why I like the Magic Lantern album so much. But still a beauty.


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## Berthold (May 14, 2013)

NYEric said:


> Nice. Small pouch, that is why I like the Magic Lantern album so much. But still a beauty.



Yes I would prefer a micranthum album also but I have no choice.


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## NYEric (May 14, 2013)

I know where to get them, unfortunately I need to eat also.


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## Berthold (May 14, 2013)

NYEric said:


> I know where to get them, unfortunately I need to eat also.



In Europe also? Perhaps I could sell my BMW stocks.


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## NYEric (May 14, 2013)

Berthold said:


> In Europe also?


I don't even know why you ask. My Ho Chi Minh albums came from the same source as yours. If you want to pay for mic albums I can tell you how to get them.


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## Berthold (May 14, 2013)

NYEric said:


> If you want to pay for mic albums I can tell you how to get them.



Eric, yes, I was talking about mic album.

My Ho Chi Minh bottle was from Mr. Popow.


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## NYEric (May 14, 2013)

I understand what you are talking about.


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## Berthold (May 17, 2013)

It's ready now. Last photo with armeniacum. 
Does anybody confirm intermediate features between vietnamense and delenatii? Leaves are too broad for true delenatii I guess.


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## Trithor (May 17, 2013)

Beautiful symetry to that flower. You have got to be proud!


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## NYEric (May 17, 2013)

Wow, the lateral petals are very round and large!!


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## Dido (May 17, 2013)

It looks great hope one of mine will flower like that this year


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## Ozpaph (May 17, 2013)

she's beautiful


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## KyushuCalanthe (May 18, 2013)

Wow! Wow! Wow! That is just lovely.


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## monocotman (May 18, 2013)

Just stunning.
Those huge wide lateral petals suggest that it is almost definitely the hybrid,
David


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## Berthold (May 20, 2013)

Now in full discreet beauty


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## NYEric (May 20, 2013)

Nice.


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## Trithor (May 21, 2013)

Those petals are enormous! How long do these last in bloom?


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## Berthold (May 21, 2013)

Trithor said:


> How long do these last in bloom?



I am standing by still.


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## NYEric (May 21, 2013)

yes, let us know how long she goes, thanks.


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## Berthold (Jun 20, 2013)

NYEric said:


> yes, let us know how long she goes, thanks.



Bloom retired after 5 weeks but I tried to self it and temperature rised to summer heat.


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## SlipperKing (Jun 20, 2013)

That is one special HCM....one in a thousand.


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## NYEric (Jun 20, 2013)

That's a good duration for the bloom. Thanks for the info.


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## Berthold (Dec 28, 2013)

The second seedling of that flask is coming up


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## NYEric (Dec 28, 2013)

Very nice. if you make a sib cross let us know.


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## Dido (Dec 29, 2013)

Looks great hope one of mine will flower too, they are the same size now


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## Berthold (Feb 12, 2014)

Berthold said:


> The second seedling of that flask is coming up



There it is. The seedling is stronger and the pedicel has 21 cm


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## SlipperKing (Feb 12, 2014)

Nice as well. Looks more dele but with an oversized staminode.


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## Dido (Feb 12, 2014)

Nice one hope mine will flower too, 
3 show leaves which could be the starting for flower. 
My biggest is starting 3 new growth, that a good sign for a flower to come I hope.


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## Berthold (Feb 12, 2014)

Dido said:


> My biggest is starting 3 new growth, that a good sign for a flower to come I hope.



I don't think so, it's a bad sign.


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## Dido (Feb 12, 2014)

Berthold said:


> I don't think so, it's a bad sign.



I have a lot of plants, which only starts to flower when the new growth comes too. 
Have a few delenatii who make it liek that and 2 normal Ho chi minh whcih are the same so please explain me why it should be a bad sign. 

Mostly if they get new growth the main one is old enough to flower. 

My armeniacum do the same thing. 

And when a micranthum does it I am nearly sure that I will not loose here during flowering, if not soemthing is wrong with the plant.


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## NYEric (Feb 12, 2014)

Very nice. I need to give mine more attention.


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## Ozpaph (Feb 13, 2014)

very deli


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## Trithor (Feb 13, 2014)

Ozpaph said:


> very deli



Very deli(cious)!


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## Berthold (Feb 13, 2014)

Is this the second flower worldwide of this bastard or is there somebody anywhere coming up with it before me?


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## NYEric (Feb 13, 2014)

There are plenty of these around. I know of 3-4 people on the forum that have them, mine is not blooming size yet.


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## Dido (Feb 14, 2014)

We discussed over Popow plant here too if your remember.


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## Berthold (Feb 14, 2014)

NYEric said:


> There are plenty of these around. I know of 3-4 people on the forum that have them, mine is not blooming size yet.



Yes of course but I mean the bloom. Is there anywhere seen a photo of the bloom? 

Mine would not have blooming size either till now but my secret is to keep the seedling in Neudohum in the first 12 months after deflasking.


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## Ozpaph (Feb 14, 2014)

what is - Neudohum ?


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## Berthold (Feb 14, 2014)

Ozpaph said:


> what is - Neudohum ?



that is a standard organic substrate for garden flowers with high content of nutrients and it has added microorganismen for animation of the substrate.
That means, in *the first months* there is no rotting in the rootsystem but a good support of the plant by nutrients and water.

But after 5 months or so (depending of humidity) an extensive rotting would begin, if You don't change substrate.


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## Trithor (Feb 14, 2014)

and here I was getting excited! I thought it was a type of Caribbean rum I had not heard of or tried yet.


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## Paph_LdyMacBeth (Feb 14, 2014)

That one is awesome!!

Sent from my BlackBerry Bold 9900 using Tapatalk


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## NYEric (Feb 14, 2014)

Berthold said:


> Yes of course but I mean the bloom. Is there anywhere seen a photo of the bloom?



http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27532&highlight=minh+album


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## Ozpaph (Feb 15, 2014)

Trithor said:


> and here I was getting excited! I thought it was a type of Caribbean rum I had not heard of or tried yet.



Rum does the same - its good early and you break down fast later..............:rollhappy:


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## Berthold (Feb 15, 2014)

Trithor said:


> and here I was getting excited! I thought it was a type of Caribbean rum I had not heard of or tried yet.



No, Neudohum is a dope for the plant not for the cultivateur.


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## Dido (Feb 15, 2014)

Berthold said:


> No, Neudohum is a dope for the plant not for the cultivateur.



Dont forget the flys, and when you dont watch it kills them very fast.....


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## NYEric (Sep 24, 2015)

Just a small resurrection. Has anyone seen vietnamense albums for sale? I know there were some in Australia and Vietnam, but... ???


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## dodidoki (Sep 24, 2015)

NYEric said:


> Just a small resurrection. Has anyone seen vietnamense albums for sale? I know there were some in Australia and Vietnam, but... ???



I just saw some comments that a few seedlings were sold for very high price, but all of died. I have a book written by Gruss, there is a pic about a flowering individual, in Germany, maybe these seedling plants were originated from its selfing...I think it is lost for a while, but maybe with succesfully selfings of this species there will be seen a new induividuals, I hope. There are more problems with volonteanum album because its artefitial propagation is very hard.But there was only one album form in Japan, died just few weeks after first flowering.


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## NYEric (Sep 24, 2015)

Hopefully someone crossed it with something.


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## Chicago Chad (Sep 24, 2015)

vietnamense 'Snow Swan' -NFS
Glen Deckers plant (unsure of name applied) also NFS

if you know of another, let a brother know oke:


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## Happypaphy7 (Sep 24, 2015)

I would love to see the leaves on those!


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## valenzino (Sep 25, 2015)

I had one but not worth display....but now a good one flowering....but 2 months needed before open....(japan breeding)


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## NYEric (Sep 25, 2015)

I thought you did. Good luck. Keep us posted, thanks.


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## Berthold (Nov 21, 2018)

Berthold said:


> There it is. The seedling is stronger and the pedicel has 21 cm




All the seedlings rotted except of one which I could reanimate:


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## NYEric (Nov 21, 2018)

Thanks for sharing. Mine is very slow.


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