# Help with creating an area to grow Cypripedium



## TheLorax (Aug 4, 2007)

Hi, first post. Really sorry my first post is in the wanted forum but I would like (want) help with site preparation to attempt to grow several types of cyps. 

I realize this is a strange want request however I suspect Cypripedium kentuckiense, C. reginae, and C. arietinum are not all that easy to grow. I'd like to purchase a few next year but would need to make sure I select the most appropriate area on my property to try my hand at growing them. I'd also like to cover the other bases of meeting their cultural requirements before making the investment in these species. I really hate losing plants due to ignorance. 

Some of the plants for sale that I have my eye on are in pots while others are in vitro which makes me somewhat nervous. I would also want some tips on starting in vitro cyps. 

My zone is 5. I have a quality oak hickory savannah on my property as well as several degraded wetlands that I will begin to clean up in the next few years and a small but quality upland deciduous forest area also present. We have intense freeze/thaw cycling where I live and garden. 

Any suggested reading materials would also be appreciated. I recently purchased one publication but would prefer referrals of books from people who already grow the plants I want to grow.


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## goldenrose (Aug 4, 2007)

WELCOME TO THE FORUM! I will be no help to you with cyps. I live in N.E.IL as well Spring Grove - where are you? Rose


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## Heather (Aug 4, 2007)

Unfortunately, I do not grow them either, but there are people here who do, so be patient! 

Of utmost importance, however, WELCOME!


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## TheLorax (Aug 4, 2007)

Hi goldenrose, I'm way east of you by Lk Michigan. Have you ever been down to Oak Hill Gardens in Dundee IL? Incredibly well grown orchids and reasonably priced but most importantly- pest free. I love that nursery. A friend of mine flew in from CA and then another friend drove in from OH and the three of us "visited" and we were lost in there for ohhhhh... about 6 hours this past spring. When we walked through the front door, we all went three different directions only crossing paths a few times while we shopped. We finally surfaced. I came out with a few jewel orchids and one or two mottled leafed paphs and I'm sure some other orchids jumped into my arms but I don't recall which ones off hand. It was a good day. 

Hi Heather, would you please move this thread to the Cyp Forum for me. I started reading other threads in here and I screwed up and started this in a totally wrong area. I think I know where I want to buy my cyps from already. I'm not ready to buy them yet but I will probably go back to PlanTek once I've figured out how to grow them. I wanted help with growing them and wasn't looking to trade for them. Oops.


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## goldenrose (Aug 4, 2007)

I know it well - I'm usually down at Oak Hill Gardens every 4-6 weeks!


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## TheLorax (Aug 4, 2007)

Every 4-6 weeks? Oh my word, I'd be a penniless pauper. Not that that's bad or anything but I'm thinking once a year to Oak Hill is about all I can afford. I have no self control when it comes to plants. I am weak, very weak. 

Say, you don't by any chance know of any other orchid sources any where around us locally that are in Oak Hill's league or close do you? Someone said there was a small nursery somewhere up north of Milwaukee that would be worth visiting however I have been wracking my brain to remember the name of that nursery and can't for the life of me remember what it was. I do recall that this nursery doesn't do anything via the Internet- no website and no e-mail. That's going to make it a needle in a haystack.


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## Marco (Aug 5, 2007)

Lorax - if youre looking for slippers theres Orchid Inn in bloomington

http://www.orchidinnusa.com/template.jsp?page=contact


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## goldenrose (Aug 5, 2007)

When you visit on a more regular basis, you don't have to go over board! I have a dog food supplier down that away & Oak Hill is only another 15 minutes.
FoxValley/Hausermann's is close. FoxValley may seem pricey but his plants are excellent quality! 
Bloomington would be a few hours south.
I don't know of any orchid grower north of Milwaukee, if you find out let me know! I would like to drop in on WisonsinOrchid Society meeting, I bet someone there would know!
Acker's is near Madison, that's a couple of hours, they have nice plants for a reasonable cost.
PS. Do a search on this website - "new little deals" - you can see the damages done with one Oak Hill visit.
Also do 'Acker's' I was up there a couple weeks ago & posted pics. Enjoy


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## TheLorax (Aug 5, 2007)

Thank you Marco, I'll pop down there when the kids are back to school. Not a high risk nursery for me based on their inventory but I know I'll find something. 

Visit Oak Hill on a more regular basis??? I dropped almost $700 when I was there and only 2 plants were a gift for others- my MIL and one girlfriend. My husband took a look at what I brought home in the car and was rather surprised there was so little for what I spent. I told him they might grow and to consider it an experiment. He sort of just chuckled and walked away. I suppose I should do a search here for "new little deals" so I can show my husband that I am not the only one who has serious issues with Oak Hill. 

Bummer to Ackers because I was just up in Madison visiting some of the botanical gardens with a group of gardeners in early June. If only I had known. It would have been no problem making a pit stop. 

Hausermann's is one nursery that I had a bad exeperience with. I have limited space here to grow in the home because of dogs that would chew on my plants and cats that would use them as dietary supplements. I pretty much have to hang house plants from hooks, place them in terrariums and Wardian cases, or grow them all in two rooms where I can keep the doors shut. That's a problem with kids added to the mix. No means by which to quarantine new plants. That nursery zapped me on two plants. Probably a spot problem they were having because they do seem to have a good reputation but it ended up being my problem and it was costly. I really don't like mealies or mites and I had to use Orthene on all of my Nepenthes that were in close proximity as a prophylactic. That was the second time I was hit with pests. First time was a gift Hoya special ordered from a nursery out of HI that had "hitchhikers". I didn't spot the mealies until it was too late. Two bad experiences in all these years is a pretty good track record all factors considered. 

If you drop in on that WI Orchid Society meeting, please do let me know what you learn of any nursery north of Milwaukee. Allegedly, the nursery has hardy native terrestrial orchids and that's mostly what I'm interested in.


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## Heather (Aug 5, 2007)

I've actually heard quite a few negative things about Hausermann's in the past. People getting plants that weren't what they were supposed to be and them not making good on replacements. Things like that. 

Will be moving this thread to the Cyp. forum in a few. Never apologize, Lorax, it's a learning experience! That's why we're all here, we like to help.

Edit - moved it to slipper culture, since the Cyp. forum is photograph based.


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## goldenrose (Aug 5, 2007)

I hear ya, I know what you mean.....
Because Fox Valley is under Hausermann's roof it's hard to mention one without the other. Tom has a seperate growing area & as I said has quality plants, that are well monitored. 
Hausermann ..... I think plants get too neglected there. The paphs & phrags are very dry. which is fine for the catts. Too much inventory/not enough help? There is a ton of staff for the open house & things are in tiptop shape. Other times it's like a morgue.
Don't show your husband my post - it's quite the opposite! I would think you filled a car to the gills spending $700 at Oak Hill!
Field trip to Acker's! A forum member in Michigan - Grandma MC, her grandson is moving to Madison, as we speak! She's going to let them get settled & then pay a visit. We're going to meet up somewhere/somehow along the way! Feel free to join us!


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## TheLorax (Aug 5, 2007)

Thank you for moving this thread to a more appropriate area. Although I am no where near proficient in my identification of orchids, my friend from CA is and she stated she wouldn't purchase from Hausermann's again for the exact reasons mentioned by you. Me, I just want healthy pest free plants and wouldn't buy from them again because I don't appreciate getting hitchhikers. When I contacted them, Hausermann's told me their plants were pest free and that my hitchhikers must have come from plants purchased at another nursery because they didn't have any problems. Moot point sharing with them that the Nepenthes, few Paphiopedilum, and Hoya I had growing in that area had all been purchased several years earlier as it was evident they weren't going to take the plants back. I lost my beloved N. jacquelinae that cost me a couple hundred dollars when I had to drench it with Orthene. I never did replace that plant but will some day. 

Say goldenrose, I didn't realize there were two nurseries at one location. I would go back to check out Fox Valley. No, I didn't fill a car after visiting Oak Hill. Wish I had filled my car but I didn't. I was buying mostly miniatures for terrariums. Several jewel orchids but quite a few minis that were mounted to hang from the sides of my terrariums for visual interest. I came home with exactly three boxes that were somewhere around 1' x 2', that was it to show for 6 hours roaming around at Oak Hill. Pathetic, I guess you seasoned veterans will have to show me how to shop better. You twisted my arm (just kidding because it doesn't take much to get me to visit a quality CP, orchid, or native plant nursery), I'll meet up at Ackers but I need a little notice because school will be starting soon and I have to drive kidlettes to and from. It would be best for me to drive up on a weekend since it's about a 2 hour drive but if I know in advance, I can get my husband to pick up from school at 2:40pm during the week. May I bring a girlfriend with me?


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## Heather (Aug 5, 2007)

I love seeing our members networking and meeting up like this. The recent Parkside roadtrip was inspiring. You guys are the best!


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## goldenrose (Aug 5, 2007)

TheLorax said:


> May I bring a girlfriend with me?



The more the merrier! Acker's is open on Saturdays, I also went on a Friday, which was kinda nice from a traffic standpoint!

UGH! what an expensive loss! Interesting, I was there about 10 days ago to pick up a couple of plants Tom had on hold for me. There was a man purchasing a large grammaphyllum(sp?) plant in bloom - it was being sprayed with a stinky aerosol, I knew it was insecticide!


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## TheLorax (Aug 5, 2007)

I am a member of a carnivorous plant forum. If it's ok to mention which one I am a member at, I will. It is my understanding some sites allow the mention of other sites while some sites don't and I don't know the rules here. Over the course of the years, I've been blessed with having had the opportunity to meet many fellow enthusiasts. We've done our fair share of roadtrips but some of us will fly out to meet up to explore natural areas where CPs grow and some will also fly out to be together for what is referred to as an open-day. That's where a grower opens up their greenhouses and property to welcome fellow addicts. I missed the last one in Virginia because I was on vacation at the time but over one hundred people went and they were from all over the world. It's so nice to be able to put a face to folk one has been communicating with for years or buying plants from. I truly love the plants but the people have always been priceless. I must admit I am pleasantly surprised to learn there are people who garden locally (goldenrose) who are into orchids. The CPers are far and few between and neither the Chicago or Milwaukee area has an active CP Society. Actually, there is no CP society at all anywhere within a 300 mile radius. I just did a quick search and found a few orchid societies that might have meetings locally. Didn't realize they existed. 

Good that my friend is welcome. I think she'd really like to come. 

Regarding that one nursery, "There was a man purchasing a large grammaphyllum(sp?) plant in bloom - it was being sprayed with a stinky aerosol, I knew it was insecticide!"... once shame on them, twice shame on me. I won't be buying from them again. I do have to wonder how the other nursery under the same roof manages to keep their plants pest free. Must be an ongoing battle.


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## TheLorax (Aug 5, 2007)

Forgot to mention a Friday visit to Ackers would be perfectly fine but I'd need a few weeks notice so my husband could pick up from school.


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## Heather (Aug 5, 2007)

Lorax- 

Feel free to post the name of your CP forum or community. There are quite a few of us here who enjoy CPs too, and grow them. I only have two but they help me keep the fungus gnats down. 

Incidentally, I visited Bonsai West yesterday (which is about 10 min. from where I live). The owners there also have several CP gardens, and I met one of them yesterday who I had heard was also into Jap. orchids - which I've become recently interested in. We chatted for quite a while about our addictive pursuits and commonalities, and he offered to give me a tour of his orchid collection. When we went into his kitchen so he could show me his yellow Sedirea blooming, I noticed the salt water coral tank behind me and laughed - mentioned the fact that people here at the forum have many of the same passions, and as someone with five greenhouses on his property, he would fit in well with us. We are all textbook addicts.


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## TheLorax (Aug 5, 2007)

International Carnivorous Plants Society-
http://www.carnivorousplants.org/

The ICPS Forums are mostly people who have been members of the ICPS but with the introduction of actual forums, there have been quite a few hobbyists joining these days which has livened us up a bit. Some came from the ListServe who wanted an opportunity to share photos and such. Here's the direct link to the forums-
http://icps.proboards105.com/

It's a good mix of people. One thing though, swear words aren't allowed at all. 

Addictive pursuits you say... I think I understand  Sometimes gathering around with fellow textbook addicts is about the equivalent of going to a narcotics anonymous meeting where many members share their best sources at break time so more can get a fix. Enablers, a bunch of enablers! It doesn't get better than that when it comes to sharing a good plant source! 

Which two CPs do you have? As far as gnat catchers go, nothing better than a Drosera binata or just about any Mexican Pinguicula. I keep gnat populations down to zero because I have seedlings here but I will stash an over ripe banana near many of my pings so they can enjoy some nice juicy fresh fruit flies. I've also been known to wave my plants over our compost bins that have fruit scraps in them to help our babies catch a meal on the go. I thoroughly enjoy feeding mosquitoes to my new Nep pitchers. I derive substantial pleasure knowing the mosquito that tried to feed on me is going to become mush in the digestive enzymes in no time flat. I really can't stand mosquitoes.


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## Heather (Aug 5, 2007)

TheLorax said:


> Which two CPs do you have? As far as gnat catchers go, nothing better than a Drosera binata or just about any Mexican Pinguicula. I keep gnat populations down to zero because I have seedlings here but I will stash an over ripe banana near many of my pings so they can enjoy some nice juicy fresh fruit flies. I've also been known to wave my plants over our compost bins that have fruit scraps in them to help our babies catch a meal on the go. I thoroughly enjoy feeding mosquitoes to my new Nep pitchers. I derive substantial pleasure knowing the mosquito that tried to feed on me is going to become mush in the digestive enzymes in no time flat. I really can't stand mosquitoes.



 
Gee, I couldn't tell about that mosquito issue. 

You're right on, I have a Drosera (a clumpy short spatulate one) and a ping. Not sure which one.


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## jediphrag (Aug 5, 2007)

TheLorax said:


> Hi, first post. Really sorry my first post is in the wanted forum but I would like (want) help with site preparation to attempt to grow several types of cyps.
> 
> I realize this is a strange want request however I suspect Cypripedium kentuckiense, C. reginae, and C. arietinum are not all that easy to grow. I'd like to purchase a few next year but would need to make sure I select the most appropriate area on my property to try my hand at growing them. I'd also like to cover the other bases of meeting their cultural requirements before making the investment in these species. I really hate losing plants due to ignorance.
> 
> ...


This maybe the one you are asking about. It is in Baraboo Wi.
Dawn http://www.bluestemfarm.com/


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## goldenrose (Aug 5, 2007)

Interesting site, Baraboo is about an hour north of Madison.


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## goldenrose (Aug 5, 2007)

TheLorax said:


> I am a member of a carnivorous plant forum. If it's ok to mention which one I am a member at, I will. It is my understanding some sites allow the mention of other sites while some sites don't and I don't know the rules here.


There are very few rules here!
Guess what I bought just a couple of days ago:



I love CP! I tried a bog garden a few years ago, tried picking hardy subjects, none made it. I had left a couple of pitchers in pots, in my GH. For winter we had a bonsai cold room, it was a min of 38. They wintered thru but lost them at some point during the summer. I had a ping for awhile too .......
looks like we can help each other out!


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Aug 5, 2007)

Mention away! We don't fear other sites here...knowledge is power, and the more the better...Take care, Eric


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## parvi_17 (Aug 5, 2007)

Well Cyp reginae and kentuckiense are quite easy, but arietinum I've heard is quite hard. Cyp. reginae likes lots of moisture and lots of nutrients; Cyp. kentuckiense likes a very sandy, acidic soil. Cyp. arietinum likes a nutrient-poor, sandy, acidic soil. All like dappled shade, though reginae can tolerate a little more sun. Choose an area that receives dappled shade all day, or morning sun, afternoon shade. Dig a hole 16" wide and 12" deep for each plant and plant the rhizomes shallow - about 4" deep. Good luck!


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Aug 5, 2007)

I am trying reginae again in NYC, with seedlings. Never had luck with mature plants, probably due to the heat here. My first 2 years with kentuckiense have been good...it came up this year twice the size it was last year, and I have high hope for blooms next year. I'd avoid arietinum, unless your summers are cool. I'm sure you can provide the bog conditions....Take care, Eric


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## SlipperFan (Aug 5, 2007)

Hi, TheLorax, and welcome.

I'm also in Zone 5, and last Fall I made a Cyp. bed. We have sandy/gravelly soil here, and I amended it with alot of pine duff & litter, and peat. I planted the Cyps there and covered the bed with a relatively thick layer of chopped Oak Leaves. I was pleased when they bloomed this Spring. I purchased them from the Vermont Lady Slipper Company. 

When visiting Orchids Limited, just west of Minneapolis/St. Paul last week, Robert showed me their Cyp greenhouse. I'd say it is worth considering to talk to him about your desires.


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## TheLorax (Aug 6, 2007)

Be patient with me, I'm going to go for each one of you one at a time.

jediphrag- it wasn't Bluestem Farm but I have purchased plants from them before and they are an excellent nursery! 

Heather- sounds as if you have the best gnat catchers on the market!

goldenrose- Dionaea muscipula is a southeastern US native. Our area can be somewhat harsh on them. I grow them from seed to use for educational programming for children but they can be overwintered outside in a created bog with a heavy layer of white pine needles to break the freeze thaw cycles. Most die because people don't realize they can't handle water from most taps. These plants co-evolved over thousands of years in nutrient deficient environments. Their roots are mostly for water uptake and to ground them in winds as they trap the nutrients they need to survive. They need to be watered with rain water, distilled water, or RO water. Another pitfall is the addition of non-rinsed sand to the medium. Too many heavy metals in sand based on my testing of what's available locally. As far as Sarracenia, those can be touchy too. I've been learning that in our area any sand added to the medium in container grown sarrs heats up too fast. You might want to try again using rinsed Canadian sphagnum and perlite. Stear clear of Darlingtonia. That one's really tricky for our area but if you want to try it, I can help you keep it alive. So you had a ping for a while, eh? I have to giggle at that one because I've had many orchids for a while. I kill orchids like you kill CPs. I kill them quite well I might add. I have some Mexican pings that need to be divided right now. I'll bring them along for you to play with when we meet in Madison. Don't worry if you kill them. I'll just replace them for you again. No need to trade anything either. 

Eric Muehlbauer- the other site allows the mention of other sites too. Yes, I can provide bog conditions  I have a naturally occurring wetland as well as several small bogs and it is my intent to create a 3700 gallon bog here in the near future. I know exactly where I want it to go and I already have the liner. All I need is to learn how to use one of those hydraulic excavator things. They say I should be able to do it myself, I'm not so sure. I sat on one and about had heart failure. I can't afford to hire excavators. They wanted $3,500 to do the job. I can afford the rental of the equipment at under $1,000. I'm just afraid of falling in any hole I dig because they told me the bill to wince one out of a hole is around the same price as the rental. Cypripedium kentuckiense is the one Cyp I'd like to try that is making my knees shake. I'm pretty far north out of its native range so it's encouraging that you are having success with it. 

parvi_17- Shame that C. arietinum is a toughie for so many because that is the one Cyp I thought I'd have the best chance at actually growing here companion planted with some of my Sarracenia that are in acid bogs. Best for me to try buying only one to see what happens. Thanks for mentioning they were so touchy, I'm really tired of taking the sink or swim approach with orchids. 

SlipperFan- No shortage of oak leaves here! Idealistically, I'd like to get my hands on local genotype but if I can't, I generally go north for plant material rather than south. I will definitely contact your source for one or two species. Best to deal with people who others have had good experiences with. Thank you for mentioning him.


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## NYEric (Aug 6, 2007)

Welcome from NYC. There will be pests [and infections] on many plants you get from many sources; dealing with these is part of the process. Part of orchid growing should be a 'maintenance routine'. I spend part of each week going through my collection removing pests, dead leaves, checking for and treating infections, etc. I'm no 'expert' but I've killed enough orchids to know if you want a good collection you're going to get pests and you have to deal. There are lots more Cyps offered now than ever before. Orchids Ltd. has some nice offerings [Cyp. reginae alba, for example] but they're not the only source. There is a variety of small equipment, mini-bobcats, robotic diggers, etc. that you could probably learn to handle. I think you will need to put your bog in the shade as N.E. Illinois is one of the hottest places I've ever been. Good Luck.


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## TheLorax (Aug 6, 2007)

What I could really use would be an area to quarantine new plants. It would make things so much easier for me and would reduce the risk of losing other plants. I already kill more than my fair share of orchids because of inexperience and it sort of saddened me when I lost the orchid and other plants. 

It is brutally hot and humid here in the summer. There are days when I am working outside that I go through one bottle of water after the next just to stay hydrated. These days it is so hot I can only go out from about 5:30am to 8am or so to water plants and again in the late evening. You are so right about the damaging effects of the sun here. I've got plants under shade cloth to try to help out. The new bog is going to receive dappled shade which should help but I could always add 70% shade cloth if my site is poorly chosen. 

The hydraulic excavator seemed to be the best choice and it was about the same price as the others you mentioned. I looked at it and it appeared as if I could swivel the bucket to dump the removed soil into a rented pick up truck to get it off the property. Probably a dumb choice but I was looking at the hydraulic excavator as a means by which to avoid having to rent two pieces of equipment in addition to a pick up truck to remove what ever I dig out. One really big problem, all those hand and foot controls are what's making me real nervous. I hope you are right and I will be able to catch on otherwise my new bog will never exist and I want it really bad. I think I am going to need good luck for this one. My husband is thinking I've lost it by wanting to rent an excavator. He said I was going to end up in the hole but to go ahead and rent one if I had my heart dead set on a new bog. Now he made me have reservations. That's all I need after having been married this many years is to have him taking photos of me on a piece of equipment stuck down in a hole. I'd never live it down and he'd be looking at me and giggling and I'd know exactly what he was laughing at. Problem is that he wouldn't even need to say "I told you so".


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## cyp8472 (Aug 6, 2007)

Just a quick post, cyp kent. actually grows well in my zone 4 and I heard it has been grown to zone 3. I grow my reginae the same way as my kent. except media composition and both do well. I have noticed it can take a little more heat and less moisture then a lot of the cyps that I grow. The yellow lady slippers(think there is 5 now?) can also adapt to wide variety of conditions and are the easiest lady slippers to grow in my opinion, if you haven't thought of them yet. As for Arietinum they are really touchy I have heard but I am getting my first plants this fall because they are threatened in my state so I had to get a permit to have them, so wish me luck. Hope this helps!


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## NYEric (Aug 6, 2007)

Just practice w/ the handles left/Right; one for in and out and for up and down, one for open [out] or close [in] the bucket.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Aug 6, 2007)

If the conditions are right, the plant should grow...if you can get C. aretinum, then go for it. For example: C.acaule is supposed to be so difficult...but at my summer place, in Cutchogue, LI, C. acaule is native. The soil is nearly pure sand, pH 3.9, no nutrients...so my plants (not collected) do well...I have one that is over 22 years old. So if your conditions are just right for arietinum,go for it. By the way, I have never found CP's to be that water sensitive. There was an article in the OD by Jack Fowlie, maybe 15 or more years ago, that said that VFT's do well with fertilizers. I actually set one of my students up with an experiment, to grow Dionea with varying doses of fertlizer...(Miracid) she actually found her best results with 1/2 tspn miracid/1 gal tap water..I prefer outdoor bogs, and I have kept VFT's alive up to 10 years outdoors in Cutchogue...they must be covered with evergreen branches over the winter though...Take care, Eric


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## TheLorax (Aug 7, 2007)

I've decided to try only one arietinum since so many of you have had issues with it. I think I will plant it in a small 200 gallon sphagnum peat/sand bog in dappled shade and see what happens. C. parviflorum pubescens was documented as having been present on my property. C. reginae is documented as having grown by the tens of thousands around here along with Spiranthes cernua however I have not run across any reginae in the past 10 years. I do have Spiranthes here. My best bet is to probably try planting the reginae directly into the ground near where the Spiranthes is growing. I would try the parviflora pubescens. It would be nice to have a dash of yellow out there. 

cyp8472- may I please have the name of the nursery that you bought your kentuckiense from? 

NYEric- I am allowed to go in and get a free lesson before I rent a piece of equipment. Probably a good idea. I will go in and see if I can coordinate the foot pedals with the hand controls. I'm not all that coordinated but I plan on trying my best. 

Eric Muehlenbauer- I amend my potting mediums by adding Miracid to Sarracenia. I cut it to 50%. I do it once a month while they are actively growing. I have noticed that sarr seedlings are twice the size in one season of seedlings that do not get a little drink of dilluted Miracid. I did not enjoy the same results your student enjoyed when using Miracid on Dionaea but I have heard of others who have. When I took a peek at the roots of some of my Miracid Dionaea plants, the root systems had failed. 

I agree with you, if the conditions are right the plants should grow. Now all I have to do is determine what the right conditions are then locate or attempt to create those conditions here. That's going to be a little bit trickier but I've got a bit of time on my hands to figure out exactly what I want to try and where I want to try growing it. 

What is an OD article and who is Jack Fowlie please? I'd be very interested in any publications you could suggest for me. I read a tremendous amount and would love to have a few good orchid books to read. 

Question for both Erics- what does the Awarded Stud under your user names mean?


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## cyp8472 (Aug 7, 2007)

I got my kent. from several places. I got a couple from raising rarities, a few from hillside, I also bought many seedlings from spangle creek, and lastly when the seed bank had seeds I bought them and flasked my own.


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## TheLorax (Aug 7, 2007)

I found your nurseries- Thank you.


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## NYEric (Aug 7, 2007)

"Awarded Stud" It means what it says.  Actually it means we post on the forum a lot.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Aug 7, 2007)

Sorry.....the OD is the Orchid Digest, probably the best orchid periodical in the US. The late Jack Fowlie had been its editor during the 80's, maybe late 70's.....an incredible character. Had no grasp of written grammar and his own, very unique, ideas on paphiopedilum taxonomy. That said, he was an incredibly productive writer who travelled to see slippers in situ, and got to know the people in the areas where they grew, and the people who collected them and grew them. His influence helped the Orchid Digest become and remain the great magazine that it still is. And one of his articles was on growing Dioneae with fertilizer. I should mention though, in regard to my experiences, that NYC tap water is exceptionally pure and soft, neutral in pH...and I haven't seen it damage even the most sensitive plants. My Cutchogue tap water is well water, very acidic and soft, low in all minerals except manganese. Good for CP's, awful to drink...makes ice cubes that taste like garlic and coffee that makes you gag before reaching for the Tums....Take care, Eric


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## TheLorax (Aug 7, 2007)

Lowly bloom here...
Thanks for the explanation. I was thinking the designation might have something to do with the two of you having been able to attain cultivar status on some particularly nice hybrids. 

Appears Jack Fowlie was a character and is sorely missed. The world is sorely lacking characters these days. 

"NYC tap water is exceptionally pure and soft, neutral in pH"- braggart 
I've known people who avoided their tap water like the plague hauling jug after jug after jug of distilled water home only to learn the ppm on their tap was within the acceptable range for CPs. Mine isn't. I'm testing at around 225 to 275 on my well water. High sulfur amongst other undesirables. If we didn't have an iron curtain and some sort of a chlorine or maybe it is a hydrogen peroxide system, the whole house would smell like rotten eggs. I have to collect rain water by the hundreds of gallons and with the droughts I have had to lug distilled water home 50 gallons at a time. I have a fully functional RO/DI system here as a back up but with fluctuating water pressure, I can't always count on being able to use it. Our other house has water that tests out in the 75-100 ppm range. Figures that would be the case being as how we live here year round. 

Tell me more about the Orchid Digest. Does it cover hardy terrestrials or is it more focused on others? Better yet, what do you believe to be the best periodical for hardy terrestrials and/or NA native orchids? 

Next question- if I was to import a C. arietinum or two, when would be the best time to do this for me? I do have my CITES authority to import/export and the other person has all their ducks in a row to include phytos so no worries of me getting hauled off in shiny wrist bracelets. They'd come bareroot in their second year of growth if I was able to wait until spring otherwise I could get them this fall dormant after having completed their first year of growth. He says I should take them in fall. I want them now now now now now but I'm leaning toward next spring when I'd have more time to watch over them. Fall is an incredibly horrible time of year for me here because of all the oak and hickory trees. The squirrels go absolutely bonkers until the ground freezes stashing acorns and nuts uprooting many rhizomes, tubers, and bulbs in the process. I have a love hate relationship with squirrels but mostly I hate them.


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## Grandma M (Aug 8, 2007)

TheLorax You sound like an interesting person to meet. Hopefully, it will be within the next few weeks, and expect to have a very interesting and fun time together. Porters openhouse is on the 27th so that weekend is out. 

I expect to ride with my son and daughter-in-law so I'm at their mercy about timing. I should know soon.

Marilyn


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## TheLorax (Aug 8, 2007)

Eesh, big clarification here since I mentioned CITES. I am NOT a nursery. I am a volunteer for the State and County and I will be growing out more of their plants from seed in the years to come. I do grow threatened and endangered plants for educational purposes and for my personal property. I do not sell anything. I give my personal plants away to educators working with children or youth groups and I will give my plants away to any .org in need of specific genotype plant material for a restoration project. I do not even ask for reimbursement for postage. Come to think of it, I have also gladly given plant material away to just about anyone who has a legitimate need to include anyone working at a university or trying to pull together any type of educational programming for the public. Most of the people I voluteer with will give up anything they have for a good cause. 

Grandma M, I'm not all that interesting but I do have a decent sense of humor and am into gardening. I love orchids, they just don't love me back and many have been dying on me left and right. I do have decent luck with native plants. 

Yes, it will be lots of fun meeting you and goldenrose. Would you like me to bring a nice gnat catcher for you too? My girlfriend is looking forward to going up to Ackers too. She's a diehard environmentalist/restorationist but, like me, has a thing for orchids and carnivorous plants. We both do a real bang up job killing orchids and lately she's been doing a bang up job killing carnivorous plants. I'm going to be on vacation for 10 days the end of August but if we do this on a Friday to avoid traffic and crowds, 8/17 and 8/24 are good for me as would be 9/7 and just about any Friday after that. 

Which reminds me, what types of orchids are you two gals into for your homes? I've got a few that I want to get rid of to make space for more mottled leaf paphs and neps. They're healthy and (knock on wood) pest free. I don't have anyone I know who is into tropical orchids that I could dump these plants on. You and goldenrose are it.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Aug 8, 2007)

I don't think you'd need CITES for C. arietinum, as its a US species...then again, I don't know of any US dealers who sell it, even collected. Unless your suppliers are Canadian....The Orchid Digest focuses on all orchids...species, hybrids, epiphytes, terrestrials....and (unlike some other Orchid periodical we know) pays due attention to slipper orchids. Its online- type in Orchid Digest on Google and you will find issues online. Take care, Eric


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## TheLorax (Aug 8, 2007)

The small cottage nursery that has the plants is in the UK. I'd really like to order them for this fall but my little voice says wait until spring. When do you think it would be best to ask for them to be shipped? 

http://www.fws.gov/permits/faqs/FaqNOPQ.shtml
http://sea.unep-wcmc.org/isdb/CITES...dium&Species=arietinum&Country=&tabname=names

I'll subscribe to the Orchid Digest. I really enyoy the few jewell orchids I have. I'm also interested in several other hardy native terrestrials. Thanks so much for mentioning that publication pays due attention to slippers.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Aug 9, 2007)

I've always found it better to plant Cyp's in the fall. Ordering from UK sounds like a real hassle, and a major expense. Try exhausting the US suppliers first...try Roberts Flower supply http://www.orchidmix.com/cyps.htm, he doesn't have arietinum on his list now, but if you contact him he may have or know of sources. As I mentioned in the acaule thread, try Carson Whitlow http://www.c-we.com/cyp.haven/..he doesn't have them, but may know of sources. Take care, Eric


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## TheLorax (Aug 9, 2007)

Thank you, the man from the UK has become a personal friend over the years so I've got to buy from him and I am aware it is a major expense. 

Your link doesn't work to CypHaven. I'll go google them. The other source had a plant somebody else was looking for which was great. I'll have to go back and take a closer look at everything at that site too. So many goodies.


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## TheLorax (Aug 9, 2007)

OK, here's the link to CypHaven, must go back and poke around there. 
http://www.c-we.com/cyp.haven/

Thanks for the names of those nurseries!


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## TheLorax (Aug 12, 2007)

To goldenrose and Grandma M-

I understand you two have only talked on the phone but have never met in person so you are both very interested in getting together and visiting Ackers. I'm still very much interested in meeting the two of you as well as seeing what Ackers has to offer. If possible, may we button down a date to visit that nursery? My girlfriend's Mom fell and broke her hip earlier this year. Her Dad is in his early 90's and has asked if she could fly back down to help him for a few weeks. Her Mom is 87 or maybe it was 88 years old so the fall has been hard on the whole family. She'd like to try to purchase advance tickets but wants to plan flying to Florida around this visit to Ackers.


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## Rick (Aug 12, 2007)

TheLorax said:


> Hi, first post. Really sorry my first post is in the wanted forum but I would like (want) help with site preparation to attempt to grow several types of cyps.
> 
> I realize this is a strange want request however I suspect Cypripedium kentuckiense, C. reginae, and C. arietinum are not all that easy to grow. I'd like to purchase a few next year but would need to make sure I select the most appropriate area on my property to try my hand at growing them. I'd also like to cover the other bases of meeting their cultural requirements before making the investment in these species. I really hate losing plants due to ignorance.
> 
> ...



Getting into this post late so this might be redundant, but have you got a copy of John Tullock's book Growing Hardy Orchids? It has detailed intructions for making beds for Cyps.


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## TheLorax (Aug 12, 2007)

Yes, I ordered his book as well as a book by Keenan titled "Wild Orchids Across North America". I ordered them a few days ago. I do not have them yet. Amazon sends from a bunch of different sellers so the books could appear this coming week or not for a few weeks. Depends on the seller. 

I found books by Cribb but I didn't order them because they were too expensive.


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## goldenrose (Aug 12, 2007)

Do you belong to the botanic gardens, or know somebody that does? They may have books in their library.


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## TheLorax (Aug 12, 2007)

Yes, I am a member of one botanic garden. I can check the library at Northeastern University and I've got it on my list of things to do when I go to the Chicago Botanic Gardens sometime in September. The other possibility is a quick stop in to the Rotary Gardens is Janesville when we go up to Ackers and possibly The Morton Arboretum. The problem is the distance to these places. All are around an hour away or more from where I live and with kids and all, I can't just pick up and leave to get lost in a library. I've had good experiences getting suggestions from people who grow what I'm interested in so I generally try my best to buy what they suggest as opposed to physically going to a library and trying to make a selection.


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## Rick (Aug 12, 2007)

TheLorax said:


> Yes, I ordered his book as well as a book by Keenan titled "Wild Orchids Across North America". I ordered them a few days ago. I do not have them yet. Amazon sends from a bunch of different sellers so the books could appear this coming week or not for a few weeks. Depends on the seller.
> 
> I found books by Cribb but I didn't order them because they were too expensive.




Good. John gave a talk to our society in TN. He is a proficient grower of native orchids in NE TN (which generally is allot cooler than here in Nashville.


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## TheLorax (Aug 12, 2007)

OK, I guess I feel a little bit better about not being able to buy two of Cribb's books for a total of around $500 

The other two I ordered should suit me fine for now.


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## TheLorax (Sep 10, 2007)

I doubt this will come as a shock to any of you but I broke down and ordered Cribb's book. The pages parvi sent me were wonderful and I figured I might as well bite the bullet and order the book before the price goes up any higher.

goldenrose and Grandma M- I understand there were two possible weekends to go to Ackers but one wasn't good for goldenrose. Which weekend are we shooting for? I'm excited about this.

And goldenrose, what was that orchid deal you were talking about and what weekend was that? I think you said you were able to go on Sunday?


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## goldenrose (Sep 10, 2007)

Oct.11,12,13 was an option but Chuck is not available. 
Sept.21/22 was another option but I'm not available.
The Chicagoland Orchid Fest is Sept.21,22,23. I'm available on SUNDAY!
Marilyn is working on other dates, it will happen!


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## TheLorax (Sep 10, 2007)

Both of those weekends would have been fine for me but I would so hate getting all dressed up for the sandbox only to find I had no playmates... and worse yet... no personal shoppers. 

Please try not to let it happen in the months where we get snow. I drive like crapola and would probably end up in a snow bank or something. I won't even take the kids skiing if it is snowing and I know how to get there. Ackers is about a 2.5 hour drive for me and I won't know where I am going which poses another problem since I have a tendency of getting lost in a paper bag. We refer to it as the "scernic routes" around here. 

I think it's going to be hard enough getting a date for the three of us. Maybe we should take a close look at those October dates again and have a ladies day out. Sorry Chuck if you are a member here. I'm not trying to exclude you from the reindeer games... just trying to get a plant fix now that I have a basic idea of which slippers will grow in lower levels of light... I'm beginning to suffer withdrawal symptoms of not being able to get up to that Ackers. Nothing worse than a middle aged woman with the DTs.


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## TheLorax (Sep 10, 2007)

Oh oh oh, Here's a link to that Chicagoland Orchid Fest for anyone interested-
http://www.chicagolandorchidfestival.com/

There's a clickable map that can be printed.


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## TheLorax (Sep 25, 2007)

Just a little update on the area I created to grow the four acaule. Here's a photo of the raised bed. I've added a surround and connected this area to other areas in the woods via a stepping stone path. I'll be purchasing a couple hundred plugs of native acid loving ground covers to plant around it right after I hand pull all of the undesirable seedlings in the immediate area. There was a spent bloom on one of the plants I received. It is still there but has dropped down toward the medium. I have no idea what will come of that. I left the seed alone. 







Oops, wrong thread. This was supposed to go into the one where I showed the actual work it took to create this. Oops.


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## fundulopanchax (Sep 25, 2007)

Cribb's book is great. It is a shame it is out of print since only a couple of years ago it sold for less than $100. You will be happy to know that he is working on a revision, there have been lots of changes in the understanding of taxonomy and culture of these species since it was first printed in 1997. Definitely a must-have for Cyp people!

Ron


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## fundulopanchax (Sep 25, 2007)

Hello, Lorax,

I am very late in responding about your Cyp acaule questions. I have raised a number of seedling to one year from local seed. These have been distributed to a number of Cyp enthusiasts around here and all of us have simply planted them directly under white pine in thick pine duff. The amazing thing is that they have thrived and grown quite well for everyone, even without much in the way of care. Certainly if we tried that with any other species they would have been dead within days. Usually Cyp seedlings have to be babied for two-three years before being planted outside. 

I think it is important to note that many Cyp acaule grow naturally in the area. I have some wild specimens (the parents of these seedlings) growing a few hundred feet away and the others who have received them all have Cyp acaule growing in the general area if not on their property. I will dig out some photos I took a few weeks ago.

Ron


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## TheLorax (Sep 25, 2007)

Hi fundulopanchax, I bought Cribb's book. I needed it. The best price I could find was right around $300. Oh well, I guess that means the revision will come out in the next few months and will sell for only $50. I must admit that parvi sent me photos of pages in the book and after I got a taste, I knew that was one book I wanted to be able to have as a reference. He is a wonderful author so I bought his book on Paphs too. 

I'm really glad you are posting here. I'd love to learn from you. I really struggled doing my best to create an area in which to grow the acaule I was given. 

I'm sort of glad I made a mistake and posted here though because you replied. I'll get you the link to the other thread because I'd like you to take a look and see what you think. I did my best. This raised bed is here where I live year round. That will be my little acaule experimental area. I have no desire to grow any more down here. It's far too difficult trying to meet their cultural requirements. 

I have another property up north that has two species of Cypripedium on it and you just described the area in which some are growing perfectly. I'm not in a position to add any photos right now but I will be next spring. It's my intent to get my butt up there the third week of May when all of the Cyps are generally in bloom. 

I'd love to see the photos you took of the area a few weeks ago. Thank you for offering to share them.

editing to add the link to the actual acaule start to finish thread-
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4647


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