# I want a Phrag....can you help?



## NeoNJ (Jun 26, 2011)

My collection is all Paphs. I do want a Phrag. I know the Phrag I want...
Phrag Carol Kanzer. Can't seem to find it, and I'm a little afraid of Phrags.
The last few Phrags I had did nothing but get taller and taller and never bloomed, and fell over in their pots. I think they were both planted in 'alifor' in tall pots with a reservoir in the bottom. 

I would really like to be able to grow and BLOOM a Phrag. Am I being 
afraid unnecessarily .... ?


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## Shiva (Jun 26, 2011)

Yes! I find them easy to grow in general and much easier than paphs. The one thing they constantly need is water. I used rain or reverse osmosis for mine. If they tip over, just place the pots in larger clay pots and that will solve the problem. So far as I know, Carol Kanzer is not a tall grower.


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## Rick (Jun 26, 2011)

Look up Orchid Babies, or Windy Hill. They have a lot of phrag hybrids.

Phrags like lots of light, but aren't thrilled by warmer temps.

If you get lots of growth with no blooming, then probably too shaded. A lot of them like Vanda an Cattleya light levels, but intermediate temps. So if your conditions run warm you may need to add some fans to keep them cool if you move them to a sunnier condition.

If you are growing indoors, then move the lights closer or add more lights.


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## Heather (Jun 26, 2011)

I think Glen Decker used to have Carol Kanzer. 
And yes! I think Phrags are easier. Maybe yours needed a bit more light?


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## NeoNJ (Jun 26, 2011)

I grow on Windowsills --- I have SE exposure and SW exposure ....
the SE exposure (1-window) has most of the Paphs and Angraecum
and 3-Lighting fixtures. The SW exposure has Paphs with No additional supplemental lighting. So they only get Afternoon sun. This is where the previous Phrags were that never bloomed. Perhaps Lighting was the problem,
along with warmer temps with that exposure.


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## Shiva (Jun 26, 2011)

Just checked my Carol Kanzer and found a first spike. :evil:


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## jjkOC (Jun 26, 2011)

Hi NeoNJ, if you are willing to get a cross that is similar-looking to Carol Kanzer you might check out portersorchids.com

Carol Kanzer is pearcei x schlimii

Perhaps you might look into 'Charlie Hanson' (fischeri x richteri) or 'Wossen' (amazonica x schlimii). 

Phrag amazonica is a synonym for richteri, so both of these crosses are richteri crosses. Phrag richteri is very similar to pearcei, they both have striped dorsal and staminodal "eye brows". A couple of notable differences is that richteri's pouch has bulging side lobes and its flowers have heavily twisted petals.

Good luck!


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## dave b (Jun 26, 2011)

NeoNJ said:


> My collection is all Paphs. I do want a Phrag. I know the Phrag I want...
> Phrag Carol Kanzer. Can't seem to find it, and I'm a little afraid of Phrags.
> The last few Phrags I had did nothing but get taller and taller and never bloomed, and fell over in their pots. I think they were both planted in 'alifor' in tall pots with a reservoir in the bottom.
> 
> ...



Not everyone has the greatest luck w aliflor / semihydro methods, so dont get hung on it if it didnt work for u. Some love it some hate it. Ive dabbled but still have best luck and confidence with good old fashioned bark mixed w charcoal and perlite. Experiment and find what works for u.


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## goldenrose (Jun 27, 2011)

Glen Decker is Piping Rock.
What are your night time low's?
I think water quality will be a main factor. Schlimi as a species can sometimes be a bit more difficult, so I'm told after I get the schlimi x kov flask!
I agree with jjkOC on her other suggestions, I have a Charlie Hanson & although it doesn't bloom every year, it can put on a show with multiple spikes! (and it's a compact plant).


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## Heather (Jun 27, 2011)

I checked Glen's site (Pipingrock.com) and Windy Hill Orchids. Probably worth emailing them if you decide you want one, as Carol Kanzer is not listed on either catalog.


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## SlipperFan (Jun 27, 2011)

NeoNJ said:


> I would really like to be able to grow and BLOOM a Phrag. Am I being
> afraid unnecessarily .... ?


Phrags are very satisfying. Their bloom period is quite long. Although individual flowers don't last a long time, the inflorescence keeps producing flowers over and over. They do like a lot of water and light, and cooler nights, especially, but they are not among the most difficult of orchids to grow and bloom.


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## NeoNJ (Jul 8, 2011)

I'm looking for a nice compact, windowsill type Phrag, so if anyone can make any good recommendations (besides what has been mentioned) let me know.

Thanks.


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## Clark (Jul 8, 2011)

Chuck Acker site is offering 10 for $150.
Instant collection.


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## jjkOC (Jul 8, 2011)

I would recommend OL's La Vivace Epicure Phyllis D. Turner. Growing this plant has been really rewarding. I think it's relatively compact and so far mine has had 5 blooms on a single inflorescence. The long petals (~4") are pink and twisted. I am very inexperienced with Phrags, but the culture of this Phrag seems pretty easy. 

The pot stands in a few centimeters of distilled/RO water, which I switch out every 2 days. I water it 1X/wk with 1/2 dilution of feed I use for my Paphs. I mist every morning and have it sitting next to my humidifier (Safety1st Ultrasonic) set at level 5-6 during the day and level 3-4 at night. 

I am actually summering it outdoors in front of my east-facing windows during the day, and bring it in at evening time. I was told that change in temperature is not very good for Phrags or orchids in general, but our temperature here in southern CA in the summer is pretty temperate, it hasn't really been over 80F and we don't have high humidity like the south, which really makes things hot.

Whatever orchid you choose, I'm sure it will be a good learning experience. I know I've learned a lot from my first Phrag!

Good luck!


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jul 8, 2011)

For your first phrag, go with a common besseae cross like Mem. Dick Clements or Eric Young. Can't go wrong...easy to grow, attractive blooms, tolerant of the worst abuse. Carol Kanzer is nice, and easy,but will take some work to find, and as such, may not be as cheap as the more common hybrids.


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## goldenrose (Jul 9, 2011)

jjkOC said:


> I am actually summering it outdoors in front of my east-facing windows during the day, and bring it in at evening time. I was told that change in temperature is not very good for Phrags or orchids in general ......


 Is it really being 'summered' outdoors if you bring it in every night? who told you this? are you sure you understood them correctly? they can definitely handle night time drops in temps, some may not survive if they didn't have it.


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## Ernie (Jul 9, 2011)

jjkOC said:


> I was told that change in temperature is not very good for Phrags or orchids in general, but our temperature here in southern CA in the summer is pretty temperate, it hasn't really been over 80F and we don't have high humidity like the south, which really makes things hot.



IMO someone told you wrong. Plants in general love day/night temp change. Most tropical orchids shouldn't go below about 55 F, some prefer 65 at night, others 45 or even lower, but for Phrags, 55 is what we consider the bottom end of their temp range generally. Diurnal temp change is very normal almost everywhere.


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## jjkOC (Jul 9, 2011)

Actually my other Phrags are kept outdoors all the time. But, I found that if I bring in the La Vivace indoors in the evening the flowers last longer, than when I leave it outdoors all night long. 

In any case I get to enjoy my flowers inside more than when they are left outdoors. When the flowers all fade I'll just leave them outdoors like the others for the rest of the summer.


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## NeoNJ (Jul 9, 2011)

*Re: I want a Phrag ... can you help?*



Eric Muehlbauer said:


> For your first phrag, go with a common besseae cross like Mem. Dick Clements or Eric Young. Can't go wrong...easy to grow, attractive blooms, tolerant of the worst abuse. Carol Kanzer is nice, and easy,but will take some work to find, and as such, may not be as cheap as the more common hybrids.



Actually, I just ordered 2 Eric Youngs from Orchidbabies. I'm glad I made the right choice.:wink: I tried for the Carol Kanzer, couldn't find - except for Piping Rock Orchids and they have a minimum order requirement, so I couldn't order just one plant.


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## NeoNJ (Jul 9, 2011)

jjkOC said:


> I would recommend OL's La Vivace Epicure Phyllis D. Turner. Growing this plant has been really rewarding. I think it's relatively compact and so far mine has had 5 blooms on a single inflorescence. The long petals (~4") are pink and twisted. I am very inexperienced with Phrags, but the culture of this Phrag seems pretty easy.
> 
> The pot stands in a few centimeters of distilled/RO water, which I switch out every 2 days. I water it 1X/wk with 1/2 dilution of feed I use for my Paphs. I mist every morning and have it sitting next to my humidifier (Safety1st Ultrasonic) set at level 5-6 during the day and level 3-4 at night.
> 
> ...



Ya know. A few years ago I did have a OL La Vivace Epicure Phyllis D. Turner which I got at an incredible price in spike from Orchids Limited. I wish I had the plant today. Now the price has doubled. But it was a nice compact Phrag and the flower was lovely.

I guess my problem with the Phrags I did have was that they were not doing anything --- I mean, they didn't flower for me. I got to impatient, and got rid of them. They were all grown S/H. They kept getting bigger and bigger, and top-heavy, and never bloomed. I gave up......

:sob:


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## jjkOC (Jul 9, 2011)

Really? That's sad, to have put in so much effort and not see any blooms!

Perhaps it's the amount of lighting that was lacking, like you had suggested. My La Vivace gets dappled, bright morning sun and then shady in the afternoon. It is in bark mix; I am still testing out S/H with one oncidium, to see if this media works with my culture/habits.

I really hope your new Phrags will bloom for you! Good luck!




NeoNJ said:


> Ya know. A few years ago I did have a OL La Vivace Epicure Phyllis D. Turner which I got at an incredible price in spike from Orchids Limited. I wish I had the plant today. Now the price has doubled. But it was a nice compact Phrag and the flower was lovely.
> 
> I guess my problem with the Phrags I did have was that they were not doing anything --- I mean, they didn't flower for me. I got to impatient, and got rid of them. They were all grown S/H. They kept getting bigger and bigger, and top-heavy, and never bloomed. I gave up......
> 
> :sob:


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## NeoNJ (Jul 9, 2011)

jjkOC said:


> Really? That's sad, to have put in so much effort and not see any blooms!
> 
> Perhaps it's the amount of lighting that was lacking, like you had suggested. My La Vivace gets dappled, bright morning sun and then shady in the afternoon. It is in bark mix; I am still testing out S/H with one oncidium, to see if this media works with my culture/habits.
> 
> I really hope your new Phrags will bloom for you! Good luck!



Hey Thanks, Jennifer ....

I just recently started to re-build my Paph collection after 3-years. I had most multiflorals, they did not bloom at all for me, except one Paph Berenice, which actually took 4-years to bloom for me, so I was glad I held on to her. I had a magnificent Paph. Julius which was stunning, but way to large for me, and I ran out of space for the large multiflorals, after investing alot (ALOT) of money on the plants. 

So I figured I would add some relatively easy Phrags to the group of Paphs.
So I ordered (2) Phrag. Eric Youngs. They should arrive this week, but I think they will be potted S/H, which I am not accustomed to. 

I have some potting mix that is heavy on the allifor (hydroton) and I don't like it, and I don't think my Paphs like it either. I'm constantly watering.
I have to find a really good mix for Paphs. I guess I'll keep the old mix for the Phrags.....


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## koshki (Jul 10, 2011)

I won the Charlie Hanson from Dot's collection in the spring ST auction, and it is great! It's just opening a second bloom on the spike (I hope to get a photo of the twins before one drops off)...and it's possibly developing another spike in another fan.

So far this has been a really simple plant for me to grow, but of course it came from the greenhouse of a phrag goddess!


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## SlipperFan (Jul 10, 2011)

koshki said:


> So far this has been a really simple plant for me to grow, but of course it came from the greenhouse of a phrag goddess!



You won't think that when I post my popowii.


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## jjkOC (Jul 10, 2011)

Hi NeoNJ, I have been using mixes from repotme.com. I use the Imperial mix for Paphs/Phrags for all my slippers. I add a little charcoal to the mix and all the plants seem to be growing really well in it. Maybe if you are looking to try other mixes, you can look into this one?




NeoNJ said:


> Hey Thanks, Jennifer ....
> 
> I just recently started to re-build my Paph collection after 3-years. I had most multiflorals, they did not bloom at all for me, except one Paph Berenice, which actually took 4-years to bloom for me, so I was glad I held on to her. I had a magnificent Paph. Julius which was stunning, but way to large for me, and I ran out of space for the large multiflorals, after investing alot (ALOT) of money on the plants.
> 
> ...


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## Orchidnut57 (Jul 14, 2011)

*No fear in growing Phrags*

I was once very fearful in growing Phrags. My small collection of 2 dozen grow under lights with lots of fans for circulation. They sit in fresh filtered water that I change weekly. I have no trouble with reblooming and new growths. I use N.Z. moss and fed very lightly with MSU 13-3-15-8-2 Cal.Mag once a month during their growing season. I find Phrag less a challange than Paphs.


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