# Sad Paphs



## The Mutant (Oct 23, 2012)

So, my struggling roth has suddenly taken a turn for the worse and is looking very depressed. The leaves have lost their firmness and are now lying (laying?) down. The same thing has started to happen to my MK as well, floppiness starting with the newest leaves. The leaves are still green though. 

Why is this? What could cause it?

The thing that has changed in their environment is that it's now autumn here in Sweden, so the temperatures has dropped in my apartment and I've turned the radiators on (no matter how much effect I have on the radiator in the kitchen, the temperature stays between 19*C - 23*C) . Strangely enough, the humidity has NOT dropped indoors due to it raining constantly for a while, so I don't think it's a humidity issue.

My theory is that my Paphs now dry up too slowly due to the high humidity and the lower temperatures. Could this cause my two big guys to become depressed or is there another issue? Or maybe it's too cold for the roots to develop on them since my MK was rather recently repotted and my roth has an insufficient root system. Could THIS be what's making them sad?

Grateful for advice, tips and theories.


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## nikv (Oct 23, 2012)

Check the roots. The roots are a sign of a plant's health.


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## The Mutant (Oct 23, 2012)

The thing is, they've been disturbed too much already, so if I can avoid checking the roots, I will. I'll wait for more of you experts to chime in. If you all say the same thing as *nikv*, then I'll do it, but not until then.

Thanks BTW.


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## Justin (Oct 23, 2012)

it could actually not be a problem. When multifloral Paphs grow big, the leaves will sometimes flop over. Raising humidity and providing sufficient light can help but it might actually be perfectly normal.


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## goldenrose (Oct 23, 2012)

You already know the roth has insufficient roots, no sense in disturbing that one. They certainly can take a drop in temp. I'm guessing your a windowsill grower? Fall, the days get shorter & you've mentioned it's been raining for a while, so maybe light is a factor? or just a coincidence, they were starting to decline and your just starting to notice it? It's really a tough call to make, hope it all works out.


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## Rick (Oct 23, 2012)

Do you actually have a hygrometer to measure humidity?


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## Rick (Oct 23, 2012)

The Mutant said:


> My theory is that my Paphs now dry up too slowly due to the high humidity and the lower temperatures.




Roths come from a place that pretty much has constant high humidity in the 70-90% range and rains 3X as much as it does in Sweden. So I doubt that too wet is ever a problem with them. Conversely they do stress out when things get too dry.


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## The Orchid Boy (Oct 23, 2012)

I read somewhere that multifloral paphs like roths and sanderianums will grow firm, stiff leaves in high light and floppy leaves in low light. Since it's been cloudy and raining and it's fall, days getting shorter, light getting weaker, I really think that it is a light issue.


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## Hugorchids (Oct 24, 2012)

I second to check the roots to make it quickly, the last thing you want to do is overwater if the roots have rotted away.


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## The Mutant (Oct 24, 2012)

Thanks for all of your answers guys! 

The roth have been struggling for a while, but I thought it was on the road to recovery so I got very sad when it decided that it was nicer to lie on the kitchen table instead on keeping its leaves above the surface. The MK was perfectly normal until yesterday when I gave it water. Afterwards one of the newest leaves flopped over so I think it had already gone softer but since I didn't move it around that much before, it didn't flop over until then.

I have a hygrometer, which is a bit wonky so I'll get another one as well, but the humidity has kept stable around 60-70% during this rainy period. And I also keep all my Paphs on trays with leca and water in case the humidity plummets. This way I know they have a more stable/higher level of humidity since I've read that they like that.

After reading your answers, I'm leaning towards it being a light issue. So what I've done is move my roth from its Phal light to stand with the other multifloras underneath the T5 I have (plus the humidity is higher there). Also, I've increased the hours on all the extra lights that I have (5 daylight bulbs and this T5 85W).

Was this the right decision do you think? Anything else I might do to help them along?


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## John Boy (Oct 24, 2012)

Could we see a few pictures please!?


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## The Mutant (Oct 24, 2012)

Sure, but I'll have to take them first. I'll try to have some till tomorrow.


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## Rick (Oct 24, 2012)

Roths are definitely a high light paph, and under indoor /T5 lighting I'd probably give them a 16 hour day.


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## Paphman910 (Oct 24, 2012)

Hello Mutant! Roth leaves especially the new ones will elongate during this time of the year due to lower light. It happens to me about this time of the year as my Metal Halide bulbs starts to burn out lower light intensity due to its age. Often the leaf will fold over so I use a bamboo stick to keep the leaf from flopping over.


Paphman910


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## The Mutant (Oct 25, 2012)

Thanks *Rick*. I have the lights on for 14 hours at the moment and I'll see how they fare with this amount of light.

*Paphman910:* That's exactly what I've done now, except I've used some sort of garden string to gently tie the flopped-over leaves to the sticks. I did this because I can't put the bamboo sticks close enough to the stem.

Here are the pictures!

My depressed roth:






And my not-that-depressed-any-longer MK (it seems like its leaf firmed up after I gave it water and tied the leaf up):


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## Paphman910 (Oct 25, 2012)

The Mutant said:


> *Paphman910:* That's exactly what I've done now, except I've used some sort of garden string to gently tie the flopped-over leaves to the sticks. I did this because I can't put the bamboo sticks close enough to the stem.
> 
> Here are the pictures!
> 
> My depressed roth:



It is a bit usual for all the leaves to flop over! It usually happen on my new leaf. This may indicate that the leaves are not getting enough water due to lack of roots or some other problem.

What is your humidity level?

Paphman910


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## The Mutant (Oct 25, 2012)

You were absolutely right *Paphman910*! I took a quick peek at the two new roots that had started growing, and they've died. The leaves didn't get enough water and with the lower humidity (despite what my hygrometer claims, it HAS to be lower) it started to wilt.

Now though, I've tossed it inside my terrarium which I dug up from my cellar storage, and I went a bit bananas with the spraying since the humidity is now at a whooping 80%. Oops... 

I'm at the moment trying to up the temperature in the terrarium since the heating doesn't seem to works as it's supposed to. And I don't have any styrofoam to put underneath it as well. We'll see how it works out.


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## Rick (Oct 25, 2012)

The Mutant said:


> Now though, I've tossed it inside my terrarium which I dug up from my cellar storage, and I went a bit bananas with the spraying since the humidity is now at a whooping 80%. Oops...



Nothing wrong with 80%


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## SlipperFan (Oct 25, 2012)

Rick said:


> Nothing wrong with 80%



I agree. My greenhouse is often 90% and higher.


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## The Mutant (Oct 26, 2012)

Alright, so I'll try to maintain a humidity level of 80% and upwards (88% is the highest I've managed so far). The temperature issue has solved itself, but now I have another problem. Air movement. I don't want my roth to succumb to any form of rot, fungi, bacteria, or otherwise equally funny ailment that might occur due to high humidity with no air movement.

I've scavenged a computer fan from my old computer, but how do I make it work? It needs power (duh!) but I've no idea how to make that happen... Could somebody please help me, and remember that I'm technically challenged.


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## Paphman910 (Oct 26, 2012)

The Mutant said:


> Alright, so I'll try to maintain a humidity level of 80% and upwards (88% is the highest I've managed so far). The temperature issue has solved itself, but now I have another problem. Air movement. I don't want my roth to succumb to any form of rot, fungi, bacteria, or otherwise equally funny ailment that might occur due to high humidity with no air movement.
> 
> I've scavenged a computer fan from my old computer, but how do I make it work? It needs power (duh!) but I've no idea how to make that happen... Could somebody please help me, and remember that I'm technically challenged.




Did you see the Paph randsii rescue thread? You could try that method!

To modify computer fan see:
See: http://www.seahorse.org/library/articles/beatthesummerheat/diyfans.shtml


If you need help don't be a scared kitty asking me for help!

Paphman910


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## eggshells (Oct 26, 2012)

Great tuts Paphman. I just posted this on her thread. But this one is better with pictures


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## The Mutant (Oct 26, 2012)

Thanks *Paphman910*! This is a great tutorial that even I can understand. 

It turns out I have everything I need for playing amateur electrician, except electrical tape, but I'll buy that instead of the miniature fans.

Yay!


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## eggshells (Oct 26, 2012)

The Mutant said:


> Thanks *Paphman910*! This is a great tutorial that even I can understand.
> 
> It turns out I have everything I need for playing amateur electrician, except electrical tape, but I'll buy that instead of the miniature fans.
> 
> Yay!



Just use wire caps if you are going to go out and buy electric tape. Much easier to work with and once the fan break its bearings. you can untwist it easily.


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