# Kovachii Seedlings Problems



## Slipperhead (Feb 15, 2007)

Chuck Acker just sent me a letter and my deposit check informing me DNA testing has confirmed that all of his seedlings are not 100% true kovachii seedlings. He noticed last year that a number of seedings were growing at a considerably more vigorous pace than other plants from the same source.

He reported that he "cannot ethically sell these plants as Phrag kovachii" and is refunding my deposit.

There was also a letter of apology from Manolo Arias.

This is bound to be costing Chuck a TON of money. I'm sorry for his loss and will return as a customer again very soon!

I'll wait around for the F2 and F3 kovachii seedlings and hybrids!

DANG!!!


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## Heather (Feb 15, 2007)

I think it's good that he DNA tested them. 
This was suspected of being a problem from the Arias batch.


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## smartie2000 (Feb 15, 2007)

that is very unfortunate! man...ppl making fake batches of phrag kovachii now (lets hope the only legal vendor in canada has true ones)


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## Shadow (Feb 16, 2007)

What is ppl?


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## phrag guy (Feb 16, 2007)

The Pk seedlings in Canada are true. There was rumor from the beginning that the Pk's from Manolo Arias were probaly not true.
It is sad that this has to happen.
It puts a bad taste in everybody's mouth.


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## likespaphs (Feb 16, 2007)

ppl= people

dude... 
that sucks for everyone involved.
wonder if manny will offer refunds. the big question is did he know or was it random pollination by a misguided insect?


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## lindafrog (Feb 16, 2007)

Although I didn't get in on Chuck's kovachii seedlings I've ordered flask from him for years. He's always sent wonderful generous healthy flasks. His service is also first class. Hope it all works out for him.
Lindafrog


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## Kyle (Feb 16, 2007)

Can someone post a scan of Manolo Arias apology letter?


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## Wendy (Feb 16, 2007)

The Canadian Pk are true. In fact i forwarded these threads to Peter Croezen....he had heard rumours about the other flasks quite awhile back.


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## NYEric (Feb 16, 2007)

Any idea what's in the flasks?


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## likespaphs (Feb 16, 2007)

phrags...
which ones, who knows, but phrags...


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## NYEric (Feb 16, 2007)

I'm tempted so answer myself "Phrag besseae!":wink:


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## Heather (Feb 16, 2007)

I always heard the rumor as boisserianum.


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## bwester (Feb 16, 2007)

Its my fault, I contaminated the flasks.... its they're growin so fast


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## smartie2000 (Feb 16, 2007)

I feel bad for questioning Peter Croezen for a moment now....he gets them from Alfredo Manrique and Peter is a nice and genuine person from his emails. sorry. I believed him since the beginning and place my order very early, just this made me wonder


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## slippertalker (Feb 16, 2007)

Kyle said:


> Can someone post a scan of Manolo Arias apology letter?



I scanned it and tried to upload, but the file is too large for the forum limitations. The letter basically is from Peruflora and apologizes to Chuck Acker and his customers. They state that there was a problem in their lab and they will compensate Chuck with the real thing. 
Of course, that puts him even further behind in the slow race to grow these things from seed.


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## lienluu (Feb 16, 2007)

Voila


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## lienluu (Feb 16, 2007)

Now don't y'all go yelling at me.


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## Heather (Feb 16, 2007)

Interesting. 

Is it bad of me to wonder how many other "mistakes" there were in that lab? 
Sorry...I guess I've always been a bit skeptical of Arias.


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## SlipperFan (Feb 16, 2007)

smartie2000 said:


> I feel bad for questioning Peter Croezen for a moment now....he gets them from Alfredo Manrique and Peter is a nice and genuine person from his emails. sorry. I believed him since the beginning and place my order very early, just this made me wonder


You are safe with Peter.


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## SlipperFan (Feb 16, 2007)

Heather said:


> I always heard the rumor as boisserianum.


That's what I've heard, also. Supposedly they are like weeds down there in Peru. (I should be happy with such weeds!)


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## Barbara (Feb 16, 2007)

Sorry to hear that, better luck in the future. I'm relieved to hear that the Canadian ones are true, thank you for the info.


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## gonewild (Feb 16, 2007)

Heather said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Is it bad of me to wonder how many other "mistakes" there were in that lab?
> Sorry...I guess I've always been a bit skeptical of Arias.



Go girl! :rollhappy: 

Just remember the "mistakes" were made in Peru and not by the trusting gringos who thought they could rely on casual knowledge of Peruvian business. This kovachii nightmare scenario exists in all aspects of Peruvian culture. You have to live there to realize there is a difference in how we all think about what honesty is. So foreseeable.


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## phrag guy (Feb 16, 2007)

very well said


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## Heather (Feb 16, 2007)

These rumors have been around for quite a while. But as I recall, not until AFTER Chuck and Jerry made the trip down. They certainly could have been duped, according to what I have followed regarding the situation (and I've been following it since '05 - but generally have had my info from Glen Decker, who is clearly biased. Not a bad thing, but true).


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## likespaphs (Feb 18, 2007)

lienluu said:


> Now don't y'all go yelling at me.



damn it lienluu!!!  
i mean....

funny. a little something about it bugs me. i think it's the way that they don't say something like, 'oh crap, we made a mistake' but make it seem like it happened because of the actions of some evil gnome...


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## gore42 (Feb 18, 2007)

Yeah, my favorite part was where they say "... Mr. Acker mistakenly obtained something other than the plants of Phragmipedium kovachii that he had originally requested."

Oh, Mr. Acker did this? He went rummaging around in the lab and just took whatever flasks he found first? Talk about not being able to take responsibility. What wonderfully misleading language.

- Matthew Gore


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## likespaphs (Feb 18, 2007)

exactly!


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## Heather (Feb 18, 2007)

actually, I kinda like the evil gnome image...


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## NYEric (Feb 20, 2007)

It's really just a matter of semantics. I got my hybrids from Glen, who I know personally and have always considered a friend, but, I really never liked the proprietary way the few individuals involved w/ the Pk point fingers at each other, all over a few hot dollars. In a few years the Pk will probably be common like the Pbesseae.


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