# Phrags & Orchiata



## SlipperFan (Jul 6, 2014)

Some people have stated that Phrags and orchiata are not compatible. Has anyone here had bad experiences with this combination? Good?


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## NYEric (Jul 6, 2014)

I have no problems w/ orchiata in my mix.


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## tomkalina (Jul 6, 2014)

Our Phrags have not done well in Orchiata - especially coming out of flask or as seedlings growing in compots Not sure why they don't grow as well as the ones we've potted in fir bark mix - it's obviously something in our growing technique that's incompatible with this medium. Adult Phrags do better (except for besseae) - but still not as well as those in our std bark mix. I think Cheyenne has had similar problems......


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## Stone (Jul 6, 2014)

Just a guess, but is it possible that there is not enough water available to the roots? Fresh orchiata probably needs more water than fir bark-at least to start off with because it is very hard and holds water mainly on its surface.

There really are no chemical reasons why it should not work. All kinds of Sth American plants are grown in it so Phrags should not be any different except for the water.

Ph could be a problem if you are using all Cal nitrate too? 
All the prize winning Phrags here are grown in Pinus radiata but it's composted so holds more water. It also has Fe added during processing. Is it possible that the Phrags in Orchiata fed excusively with nitrate are not getting enough Fe or Zn or Cu??
Maybe there are chemical reasons! Unammended fir bark would be very acidic pH 4-5?. Orchiata around 6-6.5 (from memory) Continual use of all nitrate will slowly push up pH to 7 or more making some TE's much less available.
Don't most Phrags like it acidic?
Just Guessing!!


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jul 6, 2014)

I have no problem with phrags in orchiata, but I have noticed that phrags seem to have an affinity for poor quality bark that is awful for other plants. When I had a big bag of rexius bark, it killed a large part of my paph collection and seriously set back the survivors, but my phrags loved it more than any other bark I have used.


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## abax (Jul 6, 2014)

Dot, as you know, I'm not a very experienced Phrag. grower, but the ones
I have are doing quite well in Orchiata/hydroton/ a tiny bit of charcoal in
clay pots. I have two bessae that are in the original mix when received of
bark and sphagnum and they're doing less well. I do have to water the
Orchiata more often.


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## Cheyenne (Jul 7, 2014)

I used orchiata for a few years and I did not have good results. I used it for paphs and phrags. I used it straight and with other ingredients like perlite and charcoal. Both ways were about the same. First it seemed like the plants would do fine or even better than they were doing in fir bark but after about a year or so I unpotted some and found minimal root growth. What bothered me the most was the roots that did grow did not grow down through the mix but to the sides of the pot and circled around always with one side on the pot. Whdn I would take them out the roots did not stick to the bark. That for whatever reason was the roots telling me they did not like the bark. I bought so much of it I tried everything, all nitrate, mix of nitrate and ammonium, tap water, just rain water, oyster shell and nothing really helped. I tried everything on a small group of plants each time starting with fresh mix. The strangest thing was the top growth looked great for a long time then would start declining very fast. The plants turned around and grew all kinds of roots in a mayter of months after they went back to a fir bark mix. I get great plants from Hawaii in orchiata but I see the same roots all on the outside of the pot and not through the mix every time.


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## Lmpgs (Jul 7, 2014)

Last year I bought a China Dragon from Sam Tsui. I potted the plant in orchiata bark. The plant grow slowly. 3 months ago I placed the pot in a saucer standing in 1cm water. Since then, 2 new growths emerged and the roots growing so fast that reached the saucer.


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## NYEric (Jul 7, 2014)

I don't use straight orchiata. Always mixed with other things like sphagnum, aliflor, charcoal, etc.


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## Chicago Chad (Jul 7, 2014)

NBS-BS phrags have been ok in Orchiata but I don't plan on using it again. 
Phrag. longifolium fma. album prefers fir bark in my opinion. I have another one in an Orchiata but I keep it's feet wet. The roots had a tough time when not. The one in fir bark does better drier.

I think fir bark is a better option overall for Phrags. As mentioned the mix is not very water soluble by comparison.


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## Carper (Jul 7, 2014)

I have a very large longifolium that has been in straight orchiata a long time. It thrives with many new growths and a pot full of roots. I use the Akerne feed 13-3-15 which is similar to the MSU. I also have a wallisii that I recently repotted and there are new roots appearing already. I water frequently keeping the pots damp to wet with no problems. All my paphs are in it aswell. I do have a large mexi & phrag kovachii which are a 50/50 mix of orchiata and sphag moss with excellent results.

Gary
UK


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## Paul (Jul 7, 2014)

Hi 

I have not tried Phrags in Orchiata yet, but have to try next repoting in some plants (especially kovachii). Always with pot sitting on a cup of water.

But for Paphs, I have absolutely no problem with straight orchiata, big roots on all species are growing one year after repoting in it. No exception, even for plants I had big trouble with them and now are safe (massive roots on anitum for example). Growth is also better one year later, contrary to what I have read for some people.
I think the problem is that you have to flush more with orchiata because it holds more water. keep wet and do not fertilize too much, you should have good results!!!


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## SlipperFan (Jul 7, 2014)

Thanks, everyone. It looks like very mixed results. Like just about any media, I'd guess.


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## Clark (Jul 8, 2014)

Does everyone have the same stuff?


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## abax (Jul 8, 2014)

My Orchiata came from Ray. Who else carries it in the U.S.? I just assumed that the same supplier supplied anyone who sells it here.


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## Clark (Jul 9, 2014)

I got two small bags from two different vendors, within 12 months of each other.
They did not look the same.

By car, the vendors are about two hours away from each other.

My Phrags are doing great. But I won't say it is because of the mix.


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## NYEric (Jul 9, 2014)

Main Street Orchids and Silva Orchids are Orchiata vendors I know.


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## Chicago Chad (Jul 9, 2014)

Is the difference, perhaps the length of time it was composted?


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## Cheyenne (Jul 10, 2014)

Ths bark that Fred clarke uses and sells is not orchiata. It is pinus radiata but it is under the name kiwi bark and it is not composted and does not have lime added to adjust the ph. From talking with Sam Tsui, he said he also had problems with orchiata and now uses the Kiwi bark.


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## tomkalina (Jul 10, 2014)

I wonder if it's pH related? Has anyone done a flow-through analysis when Orchiata is new vs one year vs two years? I'd expect if it's composted w lime, the initial pH could be pretty high, but falls to some lower value over the life of the mix...maybe someone's already done this?


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## Chicago Chad (Jul 10, 2014)

Tom- a local friend has been doing PH analysis with Orchiata. I will gather some details for you when I see him next. I know personally that after year 1 he was satisfied and would not consider changing. Year 2-not so much.


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## gonewild (Jul 10, 2014)

tomkalina said:


> I wonder if it's pH related? Has anyone done a flow-through analysis when Orchiata is new vs one year vs two years? I'd expect if it's composted w lime, the initial pH could be pretty high, but falls to some lower value over the life of the mix...maybe someone's already done this?



It's my understanding that the lime composting is to get the pH up from acidic to neutral?


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## Stone (Jul 10, 2014)

Every time you water the bark, a certain amount of lime will disolve and gradually the pH will drop. (quickly with ammonium, slower with nitrate) so if you want to maintain the pH you must check by the pour through, every few months and make adjustments. Kiwi bark has not been aged or dolomite treated so you will definately need to add some sooner or later for most plants.


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## Cheyenne (Jul 10, 2014)

I measured the ph after a year or so and it was definitely lower in orchiata than in fir bark. All treated the same, and not much feeding in the pots I measured. Orchiata was around 4-4.5 and fir bark was around 5.5. It also seemed to be lower in paph pots than something like cattleya which would be kept dryer.


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## Carper (Jul 19, 2014)

I purchase the majority of my plants from Sam and have been using orchiata for a while now. They all settle in very well with no problems and usually put out roots within a short period of time. I normally then just "pot on" and have not encountered anything but positive results.

Gary
UK


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