# Phragmipedium pearcei (and an ecuadorense)



## smartie2000 (Dec 15, 2010)

Here is this year's blooming of my Phrag.pearcei. The plant didn't hold two blooms because of the sudden low humidity, so the first bloom dried up...



and a link to a older blooming when my photography was poorer:
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10216

Here is my Phrag.ecuadorense 'Mon Petit' for comparison, bloomed this spring. (or more correctly Phrag pearcei var. ecuadorense)




I am unsure if my pearcei is actually a Phrag var. ecuadorense. What constitutes a ecuadorense is unclear. But at least this thread shows the variations of pearcei flowers of two different plants.

The two plants are the same size approximately. I think the colours of the blooms are similar, the lighting might, or the discrepancies of the camera might be the reason for the differences. Or lighting/temperature/seasonal differences. I wish I had them blooming at the same time.

What is noticeable to me is the slight differences of the two plants staminodes. P. ecuadorense 'Mon Petit' has a more twisted staminode on the hairy black part. As well the spike arrangement is different. This ecuadorense has more zigzag between each flower (this photo does not show this well. Two flowers can be shown right next to each other because of the zigzag stem) And my supposedly pearcei has a straight stem between the flowers. Other differences include the spotting.

It would be nice to know which location these plants were from in S america, the two came from different locations probably. They are not considered two different species.

This species might be green/non-colourful, but their pouches are like art. That is why they are worth growing!


----------



## SlipperKing (Dec 15, 2010)

Beautiful demo Fren! Is there any differences in plant size?


----------



## Shiva (Dec 15, 2010)

Nice! I always like the pouch on this one.


----------



## phrag guy (Dec 15, 2010)

very nice like the var alot


----------



## smartie2000 (Dec 15, 2010)

SlipperKing said:


> Beautiful demo Fren! Is there any differences in plant size?



No differences.

'Mon Petit' might have longer rhizomes, but that varies depending on the growth



phrag guy said:


> very nice like the var alot



Me too, my fav between the two. 
I forgot to mention that Chuck gave me a division of this plant


----------



## Erythrone (Dec 15, 2010)

Cute!!!


----------



## Hera (Dec 15, 2010)

Do you have any cultural advice for pearcei. Mine isn't doing as well as my hybrids.


----------



## smartie2000 (Dec 15, 2010)

Hera said:


> Do you have any cultural advice for pearcei. Mine isn't doing as well as my hybrids.



I'm using sphagnum moss. And some is already rotted- like dirt. I like Phrags because most phrags don't care about timely repotting 
I think I will try a terrestrial mix when I find time to repot things. It should work with this species.

I think the key is water! Don't let this one dry out...it grows along rivers in the rainforests. The roots especially love to grow into the water with this species I find, I bet it could be planted into straight water culture no problem. I have dried it out before by accident and it looked crappy after.
I've read they do have more salt sensitivity, and drying out the water makes this worse.

I've also read on this forum that they like higher sunlight. Makes sense to me, the narrow leaves are suggestive of this. narrow leaves = high light on most orchids.

Perfect looking leaf tips are almost impossible with this one. It seems inevitable, since I use tap water. Perhaps with R/O water it will look better.

The first pearcei plant I have in a glass vase, so it doesn't drain. And I can see all the root growth. It will also probably bloom on its second mature growth after this first one, if not at the same time. I expect it to stay in bloom into the next year. I know what you mean by more difficult, I've had growths just die on me...


----------



## NYEric (Dec 15, 2010)

I'm waiting to get a big pearcei. :ninja: _[don't let the besseae hybrids know!] _


----------



## Chuck (Dec 15, 2010)

Nice potos, Fren


----------



## Clark (Dec 15, 2010)

A couple of beauties!

Hi Fren.
How many growths before they started to bloom for you?
Thank you.


----------



## smartie2000 (Dec 15, 2010)

I think that the first time the pearcei bloomed it took 3 growths. It definitely did not bloom on the single growth plant which I got. I think they require multiple growths to bloom


----------



## SlipperFan (Dec 15, 2010)

Very very nice!


----------



## SlipperKing (Dec 15, 2010)

I have both as well Fren and the pearcei is almost twice the size of the ecuadorense. Plant structure I'm referring to.


----------



## Hera (Dec 15, 2010)

THanks for the advice. I think I let it get too dry between waterings based on what you've said. It dosen't get dried completely, but probably drier than it should.


----------



## ORG (Dec 15, 2010)

Dear Fren,
there is no taxonomical difference between Phrag. pearcei and Phrag. ecuadorense. The description of Phrag. ecuadorense shows no difference to the well known Phrag. pearcei.
But different regional forms of Phrag. pearcei exist, with longer and shorter rhizoms, with more hairy stamindodes, bigger and smaller flowers.
These differences are in variability of a normal species.
Somtimes the name ecuadorense was used for special clones which are looking a little bit different to the typical pearcei. But this happened not on the base of the original description.
But in some collections you can find also plants labeled as ecuadorense which are in truth Phrag. richteri.

Best greetings from the snowy Bavaria

Olaf


----------



## Rick (Dec 15, 2010)

Hera said:


> THanks for the advice. I think I let it get too dry between waterings based on what you've said. It dosen't get dried completely, but probably drier than it should.



I keep mine in shallow pans of water that rarely go empty.

This species is a great candidate for semi hydro growing, along with longifolium, richteri, and caricinum. I have two big pots of this species. One I think was originally in moss or bark (long gone) and the other is in hydroton balls (completely covered with moss).

Periodically I remove excess growth and cut out old bloomed growths, and add a handful of peat moss in the open space.


----------



## Phrag-Plus (Dec 15, 2010)

SlipperKing said:


> I have both as well Fren and the pearcei is almost twice the size of the ecuadorense. Plant structure I'm referring to.



Same thing for me! My ecuadorense is smaller and it's petals are shorter and does't twist as much as my pearcei did. 
I do have a real miniature clone too, the growth is 3 inches high and the leaves span is about 4 inches...


----------



## smartie2000 (Dec 16, 2010)

Phrag-Plus said:


> Same thing for me! My ecuadorense is smaller and it's petals are shorter and does't twist as much as my pearcei did.
> I do have a real miniature clone too, the growth is 3 inches high and the leaves span is about 4 inches...



Interesting, I always though "ecuadorense" was the larger one, I guess I mixed up. Makes sense now! "Mon Petit" is this clone's its name

...wow! Do you have a photo of this minature JP?


----------



## Hera (Dec 16, 2010)

Thanks Rick, 

I have had phrags in s/h but not for awhile. I have a question about keeping a pan of shallow water under the pot. I was doing this with two seedlings from Woodstream, but the medium began to smell and I didn't like that. I haven't kept them that way for awhile and their growth has slowed. How important is it for the medium to be fresh and not sour for phrags? ALso, if I don't keep them in a pan of water, can I water them several times a week without rotting the roots? I always felt that phals are so easy, because you can see exactly what the roots are doing and if your culture is good the roots reflect that quickly. With paphs and phrags I have a harder time figuring out how often to water and fertilize. I switched them over to clear pots and finer medium than they were in, and now I can see the roots well. The question is, do I keep the medium constantly damp so that I see a fog on the inside of the pot? Do I let it dry slightly between? ANd the ones that like to be constantly wet, is it ok for the medium to smell less than sweet? Is there a medium that stands up to this better than others?


----------



## NYEric (Dec 16, 2010)

There is a lot of differnce in the way Phrags grow. If your plants are in a s/h container, they dont need a pan of water underneath because they have a reservoir of water in the bottom of the container. You should water so the water flushes once a week minimum though. The worse thing I find you can do to phrags is let the media go bad. I'm switching to a mix that stays wet/moist but wont rot, using diatomite and rockwool cubes in mixes. I have a lot of plants to switch out though.  I also grow in most Hydro as opposed to s/h so I might be rotting out organic media in a higher than normal rate. Most phrags, except caudatum they say, do grow wet.


----------



## Hera (Dec 16, 2010)

THanks Eric, I don't have any in s/h now. I switched over to the bark mix, but it breaks down too quickly for my liking. Now you have me curious about the mix you're using. More details??? Do you mix it yourself?


----------



## NYEric (Dec 16, 2010)

You're welcome. Yes, I have many different media I mix myself depending on how/what the plant is doing. I got the idea about the dolomite/rockwool cubes because Orchids Limited is using it for some Pk/hybrid seedlings. I was afaid of rockwool because I'm allergic to the spun glass product that aquarium filters use but this stuff is totally different. Seems to be working ok so far, especially for seedlings that need moisture.


----------



## Hera (Dec 16, 2010)

Do you use a mix of different types of rock wool? I think I heard somewhere that there is a water retentive and a water resistant type.


----------



## Phrag-Plus (Dec 16, 2010)

smartie2000 said:


> Interesting, I always though "ecuadorense" was the larger one, I guess I mixed up. Makes sense now! "Mon Petit" is this clone's its name
> 
> ...wow! Do you have a photo of this minature JP?



Hi Fern,
No I don't have photo from the flowers, neither from the plant, but I can take a picture of the plant if you want to see it.


----------



## Rick (Dec 16, 2010)

I'd go with what Eric says about using relatively inert media. But from my standpoint, one of my pearcei has been in only sphagnum or bark since I got it in 2002, and only been repotted only once or twice. There is no media left to see, but there is some live moss. If there was media its long rotted out. This is the one I periodically chop out old bloomed growths and through a handful of peat moss in the space.

Generally they say that the long petaled species like it dryer, but I had great luck for some years with a wallisii in a basket of sphag that I also left in a shallow pan of water. It totally overgrew the basket, and when I tried to repot I broke a lot of roots, and then over the course of a year lost it to erwinia.


----------



## NYEric (Dec 17, 2010)

Hera said:


> Do you use a mix of different types of rock wool? I think I heard somewhere that there is a water retentive and a water resistant type.


I only have one kind; its retentive.


----------



## goldenrose (Dec 17, 2010)

Hera said:


> the medium began to smell and I didn't like that...
> can I water them several times a week without rotting the roots?...
> Is there a medium that stands up to this better than others?


I don't recall ever having a smelly medium, I would not think that is desirable for ideal growing conditions seeing this species grows alongside riverbeds. I have mine in a clay pot, I use Lance's mix (bark, green moss & sand) and added some small lava rock, water 2-3 X's a week. A hint I picked up from somewhere, has worked really well - plant it like you would a bonsai plant - on a mound! New growths & the crown aren't staying wet causing rot problems. 
Another media you might consider, I haven't tried it on this phrag, is cypress. I get the mulch at Home Depot for $2.50, if chunks are too big, I cut them with my pruning shears or throw them on my flower beds. About half my phrag crosses are in it & I really like it. 
Gilda, my enabler - how's yours doing?


----------



## Hera (Dec 17, 2010)

Thanks for the input GR. When I repot I'm going to try some things that have been mentioned. Now I need more phrags to experiment on.


----------



## NYEric (Dec 17, 2010)

Addicted!


----------



## Hera (Dec 17, 2010)

You betcha!!!!!!!!:clap:


----------



## smartie2000 (Dec 17, 2010)

Rick said:


> ...
> Generally they say that the long petaled species like it dryer, but I had great luck for some years with a wallisii in a basket of sphag that I also left in a shallow pan of water. ...



I agree. My wallisii is in a plastic pot with slits. Medium bark plus charcoal and sitting in water. It grew faster sitting in water.
I sit all my Phrags in water, including long petals. If they like being slightly drier, I make the mix less dense.


----------



## Hera (Dec 18, 2010)

Ok, next question, 

How often do you all change the water they are sitting in???


----------



## Rick (Dec 18, 2010)

Hera said:


> Ok, next question,
> 
> How often do you all change the water they are sitting in???



I use pretty small pans or trays. The plants suck the water completely up over a few days to a week (depending on how sunny), and then I fill them back up.

If you end up with permanent standing water for longer periods than a week, then you probably should flush them out at least once a week. 

Check on Ray's recommendations for flushing SH pots.


----------

