# Erwinia preventative spray



## jtrmd (Jan 7, 2012)

I think I am getting paid back for all the years of not seeing it,but today when I was watering I noticed a couple of Phrags with the good good case of Erwinia.I trashed them,and now I am thinking of giving the GH a couple of treatments of Phyton 27.I was thinking 1/2 tsp per gallons for the next couple of weeks,but I am uncertain of tropicals/Orchids don't like it.Thanks in adavance.


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## likespaphs (Jan 7, 2012)

maybe actinovate?
{didja search the forum? i think there's a bit of stuff in the archives.}


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## Justin (Jan 7, 2012)

I believe that's the rate I've used on paphs before. You should test and give a few days to check for any toxicity. 

My paphs tolerated it at first, but after a couple repeated applications over a few weeks I did notice some issues, with a couple bleached or dehydrated leaves. So I stopped.


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## jtrmd (Jan 7, 2012)

likespaphs said:


> maybe actinovate?
> {didja search the forum? i think there's a bit of stuff in the archives.}



y yes i did,and nothing was showing up for some reason.


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## Rick (Jan 7, 2012)

I wouldn't panic and start broadcasting physan.

It's fairly abusive, and although its recommended by the manufacturer, the supplied data showed only a few percent better effect than doing nothing at all.

Some of my best results at "prevention" were too top dress with bone meal (and recently Cichlid Sand). Spread plants out farther and increase airflow.

It will take some time for the plants to dump all their excess K and have a better calcium balance (and a higher resistance to Erwinia).

Before trashing a plant try to pull all the infected leaves off and see if new roots or growths were developing. Coat up with cinnamon.


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## Stone (Jan 7, 2012)

I agree with Rick about treatment, you need to address the cause rather than take a millitary style attack position:rollhappy: When I first moved my plants to this new g/house, I had very bad bacterial infections in 90% of my old paphs -they had though been badly neglected-. The resolution came with better nutrition, 3 fans blowing 24/7 and a couple of sprays with cinammon/alchohol/water/wetting agent spray and always cutting out new infections as soon as noticed with a sterile blade (coat cuts with full strenth anti bacterial ) and making sure they are DRY before nightfall.


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## keithrs (Jan 7, 2012)

It has been said the companion is a good preventive. You can get soilble form of beneficial bactria from plant success and make teas. I have no first hand experience.


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## jtrmd (Jan 7, 2012)

They were right in front of one of the many fans that run 24/7.I'm thinking it was just a fluke,and shouldnt have anything to worry about.I jumped the gun on the bitching.LOL!


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## Rick (Jan 7, 2012)

jtrmd said:


> They were right in front of one of the many fans that run 24/7.I'm thinking it was just a fluke,and shouldnt have anything to worry about.I jumped the gun on the bitching.LOL!



Probably, but I can commiserate that a bad Erwinia infection looks and feels devastating, and can be scary.

However with my own personal experience over the years, I've never had what I would consider an epidemic of the problem. Just isolated cases on susceptible plants.

Were the hit phrags long petaled species or hybrids thereoff? They seem to be especially prone, but I've seen it frequently in just about any phrag more so than paphs. But definitely consider the bone meal or cichlid sand top dress. I used that for my caricinum, lindenii, and wallisii (all multigrowth plants, and that seemed to stop the spread to adjacent growths as the new tougher growths have been kicking in.


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## jtrmd (Jan 7, 2012)

longifolium and grande.I keep telling myself to try bonemeal,but never get around to it.I think I might still have it out in the shed


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## Ruth (Jan 11, 2012)

> (coat cuts with full strenth anti bacterial )


 
Could you tell me what anti bacterial agent that you use?

Thanks


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## jtrmd (Jan 11, 2012)

Ruth said:


> Could you tell me what anti bacterial agent that you use?
> 
> Thanks



I use cinnamon


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jan 11, 2012)

I have Phyton. Can't say it ever did anything for my plants. In fact, it may have even done some damage. At any rate, it didn't do anything good. I keep a spray bottle with alcohol and several cinnamon sticks. I spray it whenever I feel like it. I don't think it works, but it sure smells good.


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## Ray (Jan 12, 2012)

I would treat open wounds with cinnamon powder. It is better as a fungicide than a bactericide, but dries out the wound very quickly, pretty much blocking the pathogen entry point.


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## slipperscout (Jan 13, 2012)

For many years I have used Physan or Greenshield as a postwatering treatment at the rate of 1/2 tsp/gallon on phals and paphs with no serious plant injury. At higher conscentrations it may burn the foliage. Do not use to disenfect roots as it will dehydrate the softer plant material. In plants it facilitates foliage drying as well as having some contact surface disenfection properties. I use it as a drench once monthly in August,September and October to ward off leaf rot problems in the new soft growth. I also spray every new plant as it comes into the greenhouse. I have seen dramatic reductions in foliage bacterial infections because of my preventive Physan spraying program. It is ineffective in preventing spread of deeply seated focal infections or systemic disease.
Good air movement is also responsible for reduced foliage problems. Good air circulation combined with the facilitated drying associated Physan is sure to help spread of bacterial infections in the greenhouse. 
Physan is one of many quaternary ammonium detergents developed for surface disenfection. Similar products are used in the disenfection of milking machines in the dairy industry.


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## Ray (Jan 13, 2012)

Keeping a clean growing environment is also a plus.

Molds, fungi, and bacteria are ubiquitous, so if your culture leads to weakened plants, they are there to take advantage. Doing what you can to keep your plants as healthy as they can be is the primary goal, but knowing that none of us is a "perfect" grower, I think it is wise to periodically treat the area with a disinfectant.

For about the first 20 years of growing, I used chlorine bleach (1 oz/gal), later switching to Physan (1 tsp/gal). Now I use Zero-Tol exclusively, and it seems to be the most-effective, least-damaging (none that I've seen) treatment yet.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Jan 13, 2012)

What is Zero-tol?


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## Ray (Jan 14, 2012)

Zero-Tol is a peroxyacetic acid-stabilized hydrogen peroxide product. It is listed as a fungicide/algaecide for both preventive and curative use.

The manufacturer, Bio-Safe Systems, has another product - Sani-Date - that has the same chemistry (slightly less H2O2) that is also listed as a bactericide, that is intended for addition to irrigation water, so I figure the Zero-Tol is good for bacteria too.


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## likespaphs (Jan 14, 2012)

Eric Muehlbauer said:


> What is Zero-tol?



http://www.biosafesystems.com/Product-HORT-ZeroTol.asp


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## cnycharles (Jan 14, 2012)

we used zero-tol at work for misting cuttings likes poinsettias and mums (it was listed for that) though I haven't seen the sani-date or used it yet. it worked I believe, for the most part. 

I did use some hydrogen peroxide for both bugs and some rots and it seemed to be quite helpful, but I think I was using it much stronger than recommendations I'd seen on the internet; after spraying a few times I did see damage on leaves (when I was spraying heavily for mealybugs). once in a while, I don't think it would hurt if used at recommended rate. you could see where there was an infection with peroxide because it would foam


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## Stone (Jan 15, 2012)

Ruth said:


> Could you tell me what anti bacterial agent that you use?
> 
> Thanks



For treating cuts ( which hopefully is not too often! ) I've been using Chlorothalonil trade name here is ''Spotless'' Sold as a fugicide but Googleing showed its also rated as a bacteriacide. and good for out of flask (1/4 strenghth ).


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## berrywoodson (Jan 19, 2012)

some cinnamon can be used to dry but remove all infected leaves first


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