# Brown spots on recent deflasked P. adductum



## spujr (May 29, 2019)

Hi,

When I got this flask the medium and plants were jumbled. I deflasked them and noticed some brown spots where the agar was on the leaves. Checking it a few days later and the brown spots appear worse (bigger and more).

Suggestions? I heard they don't like getting leaves wet so I've been avoiding overhead watering. However I was thinking of trying a diluted h2o2 spray on the leaves.


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## troy (May 29, 2019)

It looks like rown rot to me, I'd spray with peroxide and let them get good airflow keeping at moderate temps, day 80 night 65...although I'm not a scientist, others might know exactly


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## Ozpaph (May 30, 2019)

that looks pre-terminal; rot.
I would cut off as many of the bad leaves as possible and try everything you have in the cupboard....................


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## spujr (May 30, 2019)

Thanks! Will do...


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## NYEric (Jun 19, 2019)

I would not cut the leaves; I would remove the plants that have damage.


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## Ozpaph (Jun 21, 2019)

can you show an updated photo, please?


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## troy (Jun 21, 2019)

....Or ask the vendor for my money back and a return of flask


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## Hien (Jun 21, 2019)

NYEric said:


> I would not cut the leaves; I would remove the plants that have damage.


 I agree with Eric, at this point, I think it is best
-to pot them individually in small pots,
-spot treat small areas of the leaves with dragon blood and hope that they do not get bigger
-Any trimming from the damage leaf tips downward (for ex, the leaves are half-damaged ) should be sealed at the cut with dragon blood as well.
-the worse ones probably should have a drop of dragon blood in the middle of the crown and hope that you get uninfected regrow from there


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## Phred (Jun 21, 2019)

Your flask is not all lost. This is the risk of having intact flasks shipped from the lab or a grower... it’s not the sellers fault it’s the handling by the shipper. This is also why labs like Troy Meyers or Growers like Woodstream ship their seedlings deflasked. The interior of the flask is sterile so any damage to your seedlings is physical first. In the flask two things can happen to cause damage. First, the agar can separate from the inside of the flask and bounce around knocking the seedlings against the inside causing bruising to the leaves. I received a flask once like this and every seedling was separated from its roots. Second, the agar can fall apart and the whole flask gets jumbled up into a liquid mess. Sounds like this is what happened to yours. If you receive a jumbled flask like this you need to rinse the plants off immediately. The chemistry of the agar can burn the leaves. The longer it’s on the leaves the greater the chance there will be damage. From here your success will depend on you. How you handle your seedlings is important. It’s very easy to bruise seedlings by handling them roughly. This is true whether your flask came jumbled or not. If your seedlings have damaged leaves from either the agar or bruises from physical trauma what you do next will determine how successful you will be at growing your seedlings up past this. The most important thing at this point is keeping the physical damage from becoming bacteria/fungus damage. If there is no obvious damage after potting them up I spray them with straight Hydrogen Peroxide. If there’s obvious damage I spray with Physan20. I let them dry off and put them in something to keep the humidity high without the seedlings being wet. Water with diluted 3% hydrogen peroxide 50/50 from then on and spray with straight 3% in between for a few weeks. If you keep the damaged spots from becoming infected they will dry up and not spread. The seedlings will produce new leaves and you can remove the damaged ones later when you’re less likely to cause more problems. The same thing is true for a seedling in the mix that dies. After it dries up you’ll be able to remove it without damaging the roots of the surrounding seedlings.


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## Phred (Jun 21, 2019)




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## Phred (Jun 21, 2019)

Photo explanation:
1) new flask was totally jumbled when it arrived and the February 7th photo shows it potted up. Not much noticeable damage.
2) February 12th photo now showing the damage caused from shipping
3) March 1st photo shows the damage drying up with no progression 
4) April 22nd the damage is dry and there is new growth


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## troy (Jun 21, 2019)

Never had this problem with sam tsui or chuck acker


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## Ray (Jun 21, 2019)

Treat with Concentric Ag Garden Solution. It'll stop it in its track, and beef up the plants besides.


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## Phred (Jun 21, 2019)

Paph flasks I got from Chuck we’re deflasked and I’ve only gotten flasks from Sam at shows.


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## ehanes7612 (Jun 21, 2019)

Sam did have this problem a few years back, the lab's heavier agar mix was crushing the seedlings if the agar/seedling became ajar ...but the solution was to add styrofoam peanuts to the flask before shipping, ..problem solved


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## Tony (Jun 22, 2019)

Ray said:


> Treat with Concentric Ag Garden Solution. It'll stop it in its track, and beef up the plants besides.



Have you treated adductum with Garden Solution? I stopped applying it to my flasklings because I would consistently lose several of them to crown rot within 24 hours of application. So far this is the only species I've seen to have a negative reaction, but it happened three months in a row before I realized the connection and stopped treating them.


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## Ray (Jun 22, 2019)

I have treated all of my plants - including adductum - with the stuff since the company asked me to carry it back in 2014, and I have never seen a negative reaction.

To this day, my biggest customers are breeders who buy it specifically for ex-flask seedlings.


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## spujr (Jun 22, 2019)

Hi, thanks for all the helpful replies, and apologies for the delayed response,

Unfortunately I already cut the infected leaves. I don't think either way changed too much as the Browning appeared to stop and the actual cut didn't increase more infection.

I decided to not spray the leaves with diluted h2o2 or any other solution but at first just let them be undisturbed as much as possible. I did use the Garden Solution and kelp solution at the time of deflasking. It's been about a month so I will make another application. I don't own dragonsblood but will look into it.

Another reason I decided not to do foliage sprays of various solutions is because I read that this particular species does not like to have wet foliage. It's my thinking that is why this flask suffered more to the agar-jumble-liquid-mess during the shipping while the others did not (vietnamese, armeniacum, micanthrum, hangianum, emersonii). I think Phred is correct about the agar burn, but perhaps I could have been more gentler in washing the leaves during the deflasking.

Well in any case, I have the plants under a low fan to maximize air movement and I've been careful about only getting the roots/media wet during watering. They don't look good, but not completely dead yet.

I added photos of the other flasks I did the same day which are doing fine. I think me and this species don't work good together .


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## Ozpaph (Jun 22, 2019)

those seedlings in the 'balls' look too dry


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## spujr (Jun 22, 2019)

Ozpaph said:


> those seedlings in the 'balls' look too dry


Might look like that due to the air movement around the plants. The rh is around 90%. That said, I agree and I think I will add a small top dressing of spagnum.


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## Tony (Jun 23, 2019)

Ray said:


> I have treated all of my plants - including adductum - with the stuff since the company asked me to carry it back in 2014, and I have never seen a negative reaction.
> 
> To this day, my biggest customers are breeders who buy it specifically for ex-flask seedlings.



I have a dozen or so other compots alongside my adductum, all multifloral species and hybrids, which seem perfectly happy with garden solution but every time I gave it to adductum a few would rot out within 24 hours. I have no idea why, they would be growing perfectly well all month then just fall apart into a pile of leaves after application.


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## Ray (Jun 23, 2019)

FYI, neither KelpMax nor Garden Solution must be applied as a foliar spray. Using them as a drench of the medium is also effective.


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## Tony (Jun 23, 2019)

I do apply as a drench once monthly. They are great products and I'm thrilled with how all of my other plants have grown, but for whatever reason my adductum seedlings just collapse after application.


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## Orchidlover2020 (Jul 14, 2020)

troy said:


> Never had this problem with sam tsui or chuck acker


Just letting everyone know that Sam Tsui of Orchidinnusa.com 4th of July sale ends tomorrow. Discounts starting at 10% for all orders going up as high as 35% through July 15 2020.


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## Orchidlover2020 (Jul 14, 2020)

Just letting everyone know that Sam Tsui of Orchidinnusa.com 4th of July sale ends tomorrow. Discounts starting at 10% for all orders going up as high as 35% through July 15 2020.


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## SouthPark (Jul 14, 2020)

I would just spray the leaves with copper spray to begin with - top and bottom of the leaves. Or could try something like monterey garden phos (used to be agri-fos). Maximising air-movement is probably not necessary - or could even be problematic. Gentle air-movement would be nice. Gentle movement. Also - if possible, don't put water on the leaves if you can help it - even when there is air-movement. Or at least - don't put water on the leaves for now.


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## Ozpaph (Aug 8, 2020)

any updated photos?


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