# Brachypetalums and k-lite



## papheteer (Feb 11, 2013)

I have heard a million times that brachys are hard to grow and very prone to rot. I personally think they are easy to grow. But have you guys noticed any improvements with them using k-lite? Thanks!


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## papheteer (Feb 11, 2013)

PS: I have only been using k-lite 4 months and i have seen improvements in my plants. I have also reduced the amount of fertilizer from 1/4 tsp to about 1/10 tsp per gallon of water almost every watering.


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## Brabantia (Feb 11, 2013)

papheteer said:


> PS: I have only been using k-lite 4 months and i have seen improvements in my plants. I have also reduced the amount of fertilizer from 1/4 tsp to about 1/10 tsp per gallon of water almost every watering.


It is no good to change two parameters in one time for an experimentation. :wink: If you observe improvements it is probably the combination of both changes that brought this one. But it is difficult to say which one play the major role.


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## reivilos (Feb 11, 2013)

Brabantia said:


> It is no good to change two parameters in one time for an experimentation. :wink: If you observe improvements it is probably the combination of both changes that brought this one. But it is difficult to say which one play the major role.



I agree. Here, as in many posts, we lack proper methodology. Most recurring issues are:
- the blatantly small sample size (number of plants considered)
- the composition of the sample: we mix runts and strong plants from different batches
- the number of parameters
- the short observation period


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## cnycharles (Feb 11, 2013)

but, their plants are doing better (congrats), and they have ease of growing of brachys; also a congrats! what are your conditions and culture for your plants/brachys?

someone may change whatever they want for their culture; just that the change won't be able to be printed in a peer-reviewed journal which i'm sure that they don't care about. their plants are doing better, and they shared what they did. that should be celebrated


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## goldenrose (Feb 11, 2013)

papheteer said:


> I have heard a million times that brachys are hard to grow and very prone to rot. I personally think they are easy to grow. But have you guys noticed any improvements with them using k-lite? Thanks!


They are easy to grow if you have the potting media & watering schedule. If water sits on the leaves overnight combined with cooler night temps then yes they are prone to rot but other orchids are too.
I have started with the k-lite but I think it's too early to tell and as others have said, 2 parameters were changed at the same time, I changed the potting media. I usually repot in late winter/early spring but it was fall last year, so far they've handled the changes. Whatever does the trick, I don't care, my goal is to have half my brachys in bud or bloom at the same time!


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## papheteer (Feb 11, 2013)

I grow in the basement under lights. T5s and t8's. they're potted in clear plastic cups with fine bark, some medium charcoal
and coarse perlite. Watered every five days.


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## papheteer (Feb 11, 2013)

I rarely wet the leaves.


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## reivilos (Feb 11, 2013)

cnycharles said:


> but, their plants are doing better (congrats), and they have ease of growing of brachys; also a congrats! what are your conditions and culture for your plants/brachys?
> 
> someone may change whatever they want for their culture; just that the change won't be able to be printed in a peer-reviewed journal which i'm sure that they don't care about. their plants are doing better, and they shared what they did. that should be celebrated



Obviously I don't dispute that. I try a few 'experiments' as well. But some of us want to go further, deeper. I'm just
saying we shouldn't rush to conclusions.

If someone finds out paphs are better off in sand mixed with
wood then fine. Show us the protocol and facts.

It's like the culture documents from Roth I posted on ST last month. Interesting as they may be, I'm still waiting for the pics to support the facts.

... and I don't care about peer-reviewed journals.


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## Rick (Feb 11, 2013)

I haven't seen any more or less rot issues with my brachies.

The biggest change I've noticed is in seedling growth.

Pre low K, I had very low growth rates in compots, and after moving them to individual pots, they would fritter away (roots then leaves) to nothing over another year or so. Some would make valiant efforts to make a new growth followed by loss of the original growth then root loss and death.

Since low K I have picked up flasks of godefroyae and thaianum. Despite the initial 50% losses from shipping trauma, I haven't lost any since and they are growing at a pretty good rate (especially after moving them into individual pots).

I only have a couple of blooming size brachies otherwise, and they are growing good and my niveum is starting to spike (the second time since going low K)


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## papheteer (Feb 11, 2013)

I did not conduct an experiment. I simply made changes. I was just pointing out observations. I am not saying that the improvements are all from k-lite. That's why I mentioned that i have also been feeding a lot less.


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## Rick (Feb 11, 2013)

I think a side line of the whole low K premis, was also realizing how much we don't need to be throwing at our plants (regardless of the NPK ratios) in the first place.

So has been noted so many times in the past, the "experiment" is partly looking at common practice among growers as well as teasing out the finer details of chemical interactions.

So if K lite got you to use less overall because of all the banter/discussion, and the rest of the research that went into it, then that's important too.

However from some of the arguments that the ratio of NPK is more important than the total amounts of NPK, the reduction of use of total fertilizer application from 100 N to 50ppm N didn't change the ratio of NPK, and at least that part of the experiment is the same.


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## fibre (Feb 11, 2013)

papheteer said:


> I grow in the basement under lights. T5s and t8's. they're potted in clear plastic cups with fine bark, some medium charcoal
> and coarse perlite. Watered every five days.



That's interesting for me because I will grow my Brachys under T5s soon too. How many bulbs do you use and what is their distance to the leaves? 
It would be nice to see a photo of your basement!


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## papheteer (Feb 11, 2013)

Fibre I have a 3 tier stand. Top tier has 4 t8s about 6 inches from leaves. 2nd tier has 2 t5s that are about 12 inches from leaves and 2 t12s at the back about 4 inches from the plants. The bottom is pretty much the same as the middle. The reason i can't put the 4 t5s together in one tier is that they will produce too much light and i can't put enough distance between them and the plants. Hope that makes sense. I will try to take a pic of the stand on Tuesday and post it on this thread.


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## wjs2nd (Feb 11, 2013)

Brabantia said:


> It is no good to change two parameters in one time for an experimentation. :wink: If you observe improvements it is probably the combination of both changes that brought this one. But it is difficult to say which one play the major role.



I slightly disagree. Yes, there was a change in dosing strength. However, to believe that dosing change alone is what caused improvements and not the overall change of fertilizers seems not very scientific.  

I've tried many different kinds of fertiziliers at different strengths and never seen noticible changes. Mediums can become saturate with fertilizers, anyways, not making a huge difference. 

The major change was and is the change in k-lite fertizilier. I have just started using k-lite. I am working on a more "scientific" approach but I have switched everything over to k-lite. I don't want any of my seedlings dying and will not be giving them each different fertilizers to see what works best. I may do this approach, in the future, when I have more seedlings to experiment with.


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## The Orchid Boy (Feb 11, 2013)

I changed a bit in my growing area: http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28411
I made the first 3 changes about 5 months ago. I made the 4th and 6th changes about a month ago. The 5th change (using K-lite) started just a week ago. I don't care about being super scientific or anything in this instance. I am seeing improved growth, especially once I bumped up humidity, my sanderianum started growing lots of new roots and a new leaf. I know that it was because of humidity. My phals are also growing bigger leaves due to lower light.

I am going to get my first brachypetalum this March. I have all my paphs 18" to 20" from the 4 foot, 4 tube T5 fixture.


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## NYEric (Feb 11, 2013)

Sorry, but most of us are hobby growers and dont have the stock resources to do true scientific research. 



Rick said:


> Since low K I have picked up flasks of ... thaianum.



Thanks Rick, yes, do need a couple.


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## fibre (Feb 11, 2013)

papheteer said:


> Fibre I have a 3 tier stand. Top tier has 4 t8s about 6 inches from leaves. 2nd tier has 2 t5s that are about 12 inches from leaves and 2 t12s at the back about 4 inches from the plants. The bottom is pretty much the same as the middle. The reason i can't put the 4 t5s together in one tier is that they will produce too much light and i can't put enough distance between them and the plants. Hope that makes sense. I will try to take a pic of the stand on Tuesday and post it on this thread.



Thank you! :wink:


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## Rick (Feb 11, 2013)

Brabantia said:


> It is no good to change two parameters in one time for an experimentation. :wink: If you observe improvements it is probably the combination of both changes that brought this one. But it is difficult to say which one play the major role.



I understand where Brabantia is coming from as a fellow scientist, so this has been a learning experience for all of us trying to come to grips with conducting real tightly controled tests versus trying to understand data with fairly variable and fluctating conditions.

In this case it takes a TON of observational data (anecdotal or otherwise) to sift through, and we will have to mentally sift what might be good or not useful in the final analysis.

But there is a constraint with having lots of individual hobbists with limited personal resources needing to do the best with their plants as they can percieve. This may require some changes with observations, because the personal goal is to keep our plants alive rather than prove a particular rational of a fertilizer choice.

Personally I'd rather have my fellow growers shift strategy if they think their plants are in harms way, and report to us what the changes are rather than plow something into oblivion to prove a point.


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## wjs2nd (Feb 11, 2013)

Well spoken Rick, I do agree with both you and Barbantia. 

This was not very sicentific. However, I don't think the change in dosing is as large a variable as the change to k-lite. The change (and possible benifits) to k-lite shouldn't be dismissed due to a change in dosing/feeding strength.

As it has been discussed, there isn't much, if any, research on fertilizers for orchids. 

It can be very hard to accept change, even for the better. As more data comes out hopefully we can better hone our choices.


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Feb 11, 2013)

Brachy's are not that hard to grow, but they are not always the longest lived of paphs. Among the species, bellatulum is without peer as the most difficult. Hard before K-lite, hard afterwards. well, I just have a seedling bellatulum...its only been given K-lite, but it lost its roots. But its alive! I find that when bellatulum dies, its the foliage...roots remain. Currently, my niveums are thriving,(for now....) leucochilums are doing well...no concolors at the moment. Have to get another...hopefully one that doesn't look like a cross between Jay Leno and a cashew.......


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## Rick (Feb 11, 2013)

Eric Muehlbauer said:


> Among the species, bellatulum is without peer as the most difficult.



We'll see with the new system. I had one for years (probably half the time without roots). At one point there may have been 7 or more growths in the pot and frequently bloomed (even without roots!). Learned a lot from this plant on the importance of humidity, and the sphag and bag trick for getting new roots. But eventually it busted. It was one of the early selfings I did too, and the seedlings from this breeding are what I referred to as one of my (poor) experiences in raising Brachy seedlings.

Anyway I reloaded with bellatulum about a year and a half ago with one of Sam's plants. Set it up in a basket. It hasn't bloomed or started any new growths, but keeps putting on new leaves and roots. The leaf span is probably twice that of the best my old plant ever achieved. Maybe Sam's clone is super durable. So at this point I'm very happy with the plant, and wouldn't call it difficult. But less than 2 years can' say much.


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## The Orchid Boy (Feb 11, 2013)

So what is the "easiest" brachypetalum?


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Feb 11, 2013)

Most people say that concolor is the easiest brachy, but in my experience, niveum is way easier. For one thing, it grows rapidly, and can easily make multigrowth plants, that give you divisions in case the main plant kicks. Not to mention that it blooms easily too. Actually, bellatulum is incredibly easy to bring into bud....keeping that bud alive is possibly harder than keeping the plant alive.


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## Brabantia (Feb 12, 2013)

Thank you Rick and wjs2nd for your interventions. My remark was only educational! Not at all offensive but it is what I learnt during 36 years spent to experiment in laboratories.


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## Rick (Feb 12, 2013)

Brabantia said:


> Thank you Rick and wjs2nd for your interventions. My remark was only educational! Not at all offensive but it is what I learnt during 36 years spent to experiment in laboratories.



I understand completely, and important education all around.


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## Rick (Feb 12, 2013)

Eric Muehlbauer said:


> Most people say that concolor is the easiest brachy, but in my experience, niveum is way easier. For one thing, it grows rapidly, and can easily make multigrowth plants, that give you divisions in case the main plant kicks.



I think it can go either way for the two depending on the source of concolor.

It has a huge natural range compared to niveum, and I think there are a lot of clonal variations in culture ease.

I also think that the larger the range of a species, the more adaptable overall that species will be.


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## SlipperKing (Feb 12, 2013)

Eric have you tried S?H for your bellatulums? It works wonders for me. I have one that has been in a Dixie cup for years now without death! Eight growths no rots I assume it has roots (can't see through cup anymore). Right beside it is a complex; bellatulum X Pacific Fire, S/H in bud with 3 new growths.

Oh I forgot to add K-lite of course but that started well after the Dixie cup.


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## cnycharles (Feb 12, 2013)

again i'd be careful to use s/h for that species and others that need warm, unless you live where you have warm to very warm conditions. i think i tried something that someone in a warm zone said had worked for them in s/h and for me it rotted (not wrong idea, just not warm enough and probably not enough air movement for my conditions)


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Feb 12, 2013)

S/H has not worked at all for most of my plants. I have one success, a huge phrag, that has thrived in it. While some plants like catts and a phal thrived at first, after a point they just go downhill. Worse, they don't improve by being returned to a normal mix. Aside from that 1 big Phrag, even my other phrags didn't do well.


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## wjs2nd (Feb 13, 2013)

My first attempt at S/H didn't work well either. I've been thinking about it and figure in low humidity, cold environments a heat mat is probably needed.


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