# Paph. supardii X Paph. bellatulum - a new hybrid



## ORG (Feb 4, 2007)

Here a new unusual primary hybrid between _Paph. supardii_ and _Paph. bellatulum_







Best greetings

Olaf


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## smartie2000 (Feb 4, 2007)

very interesting there! The colour is very nice. Are you getting more than one bloom?


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## gore42 (Feb 4, 2007)

Very interesting! Not what I'd call beautiful in the traditional sense of the term, but very interesting nonetheless.

- Matt


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## toddybear (Feb 4, 2007)

I thought I had never met a Paph I didn't like...I was wrong! Sorry but that one does nothing for me.


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## smartie2000 (Feb 4, 2007)

Paph. supardii is a nice species
....but this cross is a little bit wierd to be honest. I think its the shape of the bloom. Thanks for posting it so I know what crosses like these can turn out like.


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## ORG (Feb 4, 2007)

The plant get 2 flowers when it bloomed the first time.

Olaf


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## Heather (Feb 4, 2007)

I love seeing new hybrids. It's certainly interesting but I do tend to be a purist when it comes to crossing multiflorals. I like them crossed with other multis best.  

Thanks Olaf though, it's really great to see the breeding going on out there!


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## ORG (Feb 4, 2007)

Dear Heather,
I agree with you, but I think it is necessary to see also other hybridizing lines, also when the results are very often doubtful. A typical example is the cross between bellatulum x sanderianum. But I know also some orchidfriends which like especially this cross.

But sometimes the results are really great like the cross between vietnamense and rothschildianum.

Best greetings

Olaf


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## Heather (Feb 4, 2007)

Exactly! And while I may not ever want to own one, I like to know what's possible and all hybridizing, as a science, is of interest to me. At least where slippers are concerned.


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## SlipperFan (Feb 4, 2007)

I don't remember if it was in this forum, but someone said that hybridizers always seek improvement from the originals. I, too, think this is interesting as a hybrid, but I don't see any improvement. My position is that I think sometimes hybridizers put things together just to see what the results will be.

There was a segment on the news tonight that talked about how fruit hybridizers in California are coming up with new combinations -- like plum + apricot, and that it takes many generations and years before the resulting fruit is growable & marketable.

Maybe that is what will happen with this hybrid, also.


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## Heather (Feb 4, 2007)

Mmmmmmm, pluots...my very favorite fruit.


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## WolfDog1 (C. Williams) (Feb 4, 2007)

I have not seen many supardii hybrids, but there seem to be more and more bellatulum ones. We get a sense of what the bellatulum brings to the hybrids the more different species we breed it with.


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## ohio-guy (Feb 4, 2007)

It seems like another goal of the hybridizer to to make a plant easier to grow and bloom. From what I have read there are some notiously difficult species out there, and few people will wait ten or more years in hope a plant will bloom. I for one would rather have a reliable bloomer that approximates the species but has been crossed with something to give it ease of culture. Not that I don't find some pure species appealing, but at this stage in my orchid growing, i want to be able to achieve some return for my efforts, and even the experts sometimes can't get a roth to bloom, right?


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## Heather (Feb 4, 2007)

That's true, Eric, but I'm not sure about supardii and bellatalum - well, both of them are rather notoriously slow and cranky growers. So, is there an advantage in this cross? I would say no. Novelty flower, sure, but not destined to be a huge success if you ask me.  poor thing.


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## gonewild (Feb 4, 2007)

I like the spots bellatulum brought in. Overall it is a little floppy looking but this is only the first flower for the new hybrid. I think there will be some nice flowers show up with future bloomings. 
It looks very similar to Rolfei (rothschildianum x bellatulum).
All new hybrid groups have to start somewhere.


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## ohio-guy (Feb 4, 2007)

I get your point Heather, but still, if the flower were spectacular, then crossing it to something neutral and easier growing might replicate it, no? (I am not sure what that mystery plant would be, but for the purpose of speculation....maybe a primulinum?)
Speaking of the hard to bloom species, if one does manage to get a roth or (insert hard to bloom species name here) to bloom as a plant you have nurtured to maturity, does it then usually start blooming every year, or can it be years between flowering?


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## Eric Muehlbauer (Feb 4, 2007)

bellatulum is always a risk when crossed with a multifloral...for every Rolfei that takes half a lifetime to bloom, and hopefully impresses everyone, the average bellatulum x multi cross approximates a basset hound. (In college, there use to me a basset hound that hung around the cafeteria...we called it Grossmeout. It would come by your table, ugly as sin, grossing you out so you couldn't eat. It would just sit there...give it some food, it would run off right away...) On the other hand, I am not impressed by multi hybrids..I have yet to see any that I feel really improve on the species...but multi x anything else really excites me when I see the good ones...the greatest potential for variety in paph are in those combo's, at least in my opnion...Take care, Eric


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## Heather (Feb 4, 2007)

Yes, it may be possible to make it better. I certainly won't dispute that! 
I'm just not sure I could wait that long.


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## NYEric (Feb 5, 2007)

It does look a little like the bellatulum x sanderianum. I like it.


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## Ron-NY (Feb 5, 2007)

It doesn't do anything for me either. 

"But sometimes the results are really great like the cross between vietnamense and rothschildianum." wish I could find one of these :drool:


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## ORG (Feb 5, 2007)

Here another picture of this cross.







Best greetings

Olaf


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## WolfDog1 (C. Williams) (Feb 5, 2007)

Fairly consistant


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## GuRu (Feb 6, 2007)

Breeders are always on search for new crosses and sometimes it seems to me they are crossing what's in flower in their nursery at the moment. In my opinion the aim to improve characteristics of the parents isn't always that important. The most important thing seems to be a spectacular look and the more extreme the parents are the better. Sometimes the result isn't worth the efforts - like in this case.
I wouldn't have expected are good result from this cross - the narrow and twisted petals of P.supardii and the wide petals of P. bellatulum - the result never could be an improvement. 
But I've got to admit I'm not so in hybrids (except some really good ones) - in my eyes most of the species are beautiful enough.

Best regards from Germany, GuRu


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## labskaus (Feb 6, 2007)

I'd guess this cross was meant to be a learning experience from the start. Not many have ventured into breeding Brachys with supardii before, and the outcome of such a cross surely gives ideas about the breeding behaviour of supardii.
I do like the colours in this flower, though.

Best wishes, Carsten


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## ORG (Feb 6, 2007)

I agree in parts with Guru and also Carsten.
I think it is necessary to try these crosses to see the results. When we don't do it then the hybridizing based only on specultions.
It is also necessary to show these results. Only in this way we will get a good standard for the decision if a cross i a success or not.

But it is always curious with hybrids like this. Some persons like it and some others don't like it. 
It is typical for the similar cross between sanderianum and bellatulum. Some persons would like to buy it (near impossible to get)others would never have this idea.

Best greetings

Olaf

Please excuse my bad english, I could explain my thoughts better in german.


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## SlipperFan (Feb 6, 2007)

ORG said:


> Please excuse my bad english, I could explain my thoughts better in german.


You do fine, Olaf! I'm afraid if you expressed your thoughts in German, I'd be lost.


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## slippertalker (Feb 8, 2007)

I agree that it is important to see the results of crosses that have not been performed yet. Many of them are not commercial successes, but they give valuable clues to the breeding traits that each species presents. In my experience with supardii, it seems to have limited value as a parent, and it isn't the most exciting species on it's own merit. Also, the cross might be a bit different depending on the quality of the parents and which plant is the pod parent.


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## NYEric (Feb 9, 2007)

Any orchid is a good orchid. Except for Seymour!


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