# Cyp macranthos and tibeticum and hybrids between thm



## fundulopanchax (May 17, 2020)

Here is one of my better macranthos var hotei-atsumorianum






Here is a nice tibeticum





This is Cypripedium macranthos 'John Haggar'. It is macranthos x macranthos var hotei-atsumorianum. Malmgren tried to register it as a formal hybrid in 2011 but it was declined as crossing 2 macranthos was not considered valid. I find that John Haggar is very hardy for me.





Here is Cypripedium Eurasia. It is macranthos x tibeticum, registered by Nakamura in 2005. It has enormous flowers and the flowers of all the plants look identical. Eurasia is an extremely hardy hybrid for me. I have about a dozen plants, some with up to 6 flowers. 





This is Cypripedium Henric. It is very similar to Eurasia in that it is macranthos var hotei-atsumorianum x tibeticum, registered by Malmgren in 2010. It is always more of a dark purple than Eurasia. I find Henric's hardiness to be reasonable but not as rock solid as Eurasia. I have several and the flowers of most are huge, a few are not quite as large.





Finally we have Cypripedium Dr. Ernst von Siemens. It is xfroschii x tibeticum registered by Urban in 2016. xfroschii has historically been accepted as a natural hybrid by the RHS but most workers now think it is just a form of tibeticum. A couple of mine have very large flowers and a few others have smaller flowers, but all are nicely colored.


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## KyushuCalanthe (May 18, 2020)

Really lovely Ron, all of them. It is amazing how C. macranthos f. hoteiatsumorianum looks like a dead ringer for some of C. tibeticum forms. I remember Holger telling me once that he imagined a day when the entire "Macranthos section" (once considered a separate section, but now falling under "Cypripedium") would all be lumped together into one highly variable species - probably C. macranthos. Talk about lumping!

As for C. froschii, I am somewhat convinced it is the product of hybridization in the past, and then a stabilization of the new genotype into what is known as "C. froschii". I am not convinced it is simply another form of C. tibeticum - something else is going on with this one... but, then again, I've not seen the clasdistics for this and related species based on DNA analysis, so I'm just talkin' out my backside! Ecologically, this form is said to live pretty exclusively in forested settings while C. tibeticum is found in all sorts of habitats, ranging from forest to open grasslands. Interestingly as well, C. froschii is found only where C. tibeticum and C. yunnanense are sympatric, in SW Sichuan and NE Yunnan.


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## abax (May 18, 2020)

Splendid Cyps! So much color and fat pouches...beautiful. Where are
you? Are you growing on the same planet as I am?????


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## Rob Zuiderwijk (May 19, 2020)

Beautiful specimens.

Concerning the 'John Haggar'. It is not registered as a hybrid indeed. The RHS did however register it in 2011 as a cultivar group:
_Cypripedium macranthos_ John Haggar Group


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## fundulopanchax (May 20, 2020)

KyushuCalanthe said:


> Really lovely Ron, all of them. It is amazing how C. macranthos f. hoteiatsumorianum looks like a dead ringer for some of C. tibeticum forms. I remember Holger telling me once that he imagined a day when the entire "Macranthos section" (once considered a separate section, but now falling under "Cypripedium") would all be lumped together into one highly variable species - probably C. macranthos. Talk about lumping!
> 
> As for C. froschii, I am somewhat convinced it is the product of hybridization in the past, and then a stabilization of the new genotype into what is known as "C. froschii". I am not convinced it is simply another form of C. tibeticum - something else is going on with this one... but, then again, I've not seen the clasdistics for this and related species based on DNA analysis, so I'm just talkin' out my backside! Ecologically, this form is said to live pretty exclusively in forested settings while C. tibeticum is found in all sorts of habitats, ranging from forest to open grasslands. Interestingly as well, C. froschii is found only where C. tibeticum and C. yunnanense are sympatric, in SW Sichuan and NE Yunnan.



froschii certainly causes lots of discussion! I made my statement on the basis of a discussion that Holger Perner and I had during his last visit before he passed away. He had become quite convinced although I believe he said there had been no DNA work at that time. I will have to pull up the extensive DNA cladistics paper that was published later. I have it in my files. I don’t recall whether froschii was included.


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## fundulopanchax (May 20, 2020)

abax said:


> Splendid Cyps! So much color and fat pouches...beautiful. Where are
> you? Are you growing on the same planet as I am?????



I am in the West Sound area across from Seattle. It is ideal Cyp country.


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## fundulopanchax (May 20, 2020)

Rob Zuiderwijk said:


> Beautiful specimens.
> 
> Concerning the 'John Haggar'. It is not registered as a hybrid indeed. The RHS did however register it in 2011 as a cultivar group:
> _Cypripedium macranthos_ John Haggar Group



I should have mentioned the cultivar group status. I have several of those as well. Julian puts us in that penalty box when we try to subdivide Cyp species beyond what is allowed for other orchids species.


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## DrLeslieEe (May 20, 2020)

I'm speechless. I can't grow any so hats off to you.
All lovely esp the macranthos.


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## GuRu (May 20, 2020)

Lovely and obviously well grown and well photographed Cyp. flowers. Congrats
Thanks also for the great information about all flowers/plants.


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## catbloome (May 20, 2020)

Those are absolutely gorgeous! Do you grow them in pots or in the ground?


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## richgarrison (May 20, 2020)

@fundulopanchax ... What is your opinion on the warmth tolerance of Eurasia? A friend and i have attempted Tibeticum in pots, but have not been able to do the dance well enough to keep them alive more than a year and half. Would be great to grow something similar. 

We are in PA an hour west of Philadelphia. We can easily manage summer highs to under 85 F, less than 80's get a little tricky. Winter greenhouse temps are obviously too high, and managed inside temps typically don;t get lower than 40's. Outside swings are all over the place... like up to 40's in any winter month. and as low as 0 F for some days.


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## Rob Zuiderwijk (May 21, 2020)

fundulopanchax said:


> I should have mentioned the cultivar group status. I have several of those as well. Julian puts us in that penalty box when we try to subdivide Cyp species beyond what is allowed for other orchids species.



My message was just intended as additional information, nothing else.

I myself am not hybridising orchids, but because of my hobby website I try to keep up with slipper orchid hybrid registrations. And the last couple of years I have trouble figuring out what the direction is the 'Registrar' is taking. When it comes to taxonomy they seem to be very Kew/Cribb minded. Another thing I notice lately is that grexes are acceptated for registration, although they are already registered years earlier. Some great examples of that are some hybrids involving Phragmipediums of the subgenus _Phragmipedium _(the '_caudatum_'-complex).


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## fundulopanchax (May 21, 2020)

Hi, catbloome,

These are all grown in the ground. I use an inorganic medium of 50% turf ace and 50% 3/8 inch red volcanic gravel (which is shot full of holes). In the past I used pots but I had difficulty keepin the roots cool.


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## fundulopanchax (May 21, 2020)

richgarrison said:


> @fundulopanchax ... What is your opinion on the warmth tolerance of Eurasia? A friend and i have attempted Tibeticum in pots, but have not been able to do the dance well enough to keep them alive more than a year and half. Would be great to grow something similar.
> 
> We are in PA an hour west of Philadelphia. We can easily manage summer highs to under 85 F, less than 80's get a little tricky. Winter greenhouse temps are obviously too high, and managed inside temps typically don;t get lower than 40's. Outside swings are all over the place... like up to 40's in any winter month. and as low as 0 F for some days.



Where I am, summer temps are usually in the 70s with a very few days in the 80s and 1 or 2 days at 90. Nights tend to be in the low 50s with a few reaching 60. In winter our days are usually in the upper 30s to mid 40s. Nights in the 20s are relatively few, usually a bit above freezing. We did have a low of 22 one night this past winter. I read that it was the coldest in the past 12 years.


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## richgarrison (May 22, 2020)

thanx for that... i was thinking your environment was certainly different,, but i was assuming that winter temps would be lower. But those summer temps aren't something i could realistically hope for.


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