# Phrag. Robert-Jan Quené



## Drorchid (Nov 3, 2014)

This is the second time that this plant has been in flower. Phrag. Robert-Jan Quené is Fritz Schomburg x besseae. We used the 'Rob's Choice' 4N AM/AOS for this cross, so it got a double dose of besseae. It basically looks like a giant besseae! It is close to 9 cm across, with petals that are 3 cm wide.









compared to a besseae the flower color is a little less orange red (I would describe it more as "lipstick red", it has more peach tones) than a regular besseae:




We will probably have more seedlings available in about 12 months.

Robert


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## monocotman (Nov 3, 2014)

*hybrid*

That is really really nice and in addition the plant looks to be of a manageable size!
We are beginning to see some very interesting hybrids coming out of the 2nd generation kovachiis.
David


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## Erythrone (Nov 3, 2014)

Wow!!!!!!!! I am still in love with this plant!


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## John M (Nov 3, 2014)

Wonderful!


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## NYEric (Nov 3, 2014)

Ouch! Hot!
Yay besseae hybrids!


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## bullsie (Nov 3, 2014)

I'm speechless!!!!!!!!!!!


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## 17andgrowing (Nov 3, 2014)

Fire!


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## tomkalina (Nov 3, 2014)

One of the best of the complex Pk hybrids.


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## eteson (Nov 3, 2014)

It is a besseae on steroids! What a nice flower....


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## SlipperFan (Nov 3, 2014)

:smitten:Stunning! What a great tribute to you, Robert!


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## eaborne (Nov 3, 2014)

Love it!


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## abax (Nov 3, 2014)

Eric said it all when he said "hot"...that is one very hot flower. I've always
thought of that bright orange-red as Chinese Red.


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## abax (Nov 3, 2014)

Eric said it all when he said "hot"...that is one very hot flower. I've always
thought of that bright orange-red as Chinese Red.


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## e-spice (Nov 4, 2014)

That's a real beauty.


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## Drorchid (Nov 4, 2014)

Thanks everyone!

What is interesting about this plant and flower is that even though the genetics of this plant is mostly "besseae", I can still see the influence of kovachii on the shape and size of the flower. It also had an influence on the plant habit and improved how the new growths are more "compact", this plant grows more like a Jason Fischer than a besseae and dosn't get long stolons, so overall an impovement over besseae.

Robert


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## phraggy (Nov 4, 2014)

Brilliant!! I wouldn't think you could improve on this beauty.

Ed


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## kellyincville (Nov 4, 2014)

Wow!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## eteson (Nov 4, 2014)

Robert, did you used the besseae Rob's Choice also for the FS?


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## Drorchid (Nov 4, 2014)

eteson said:


> Robert, did you used the besseae Rob's Choice also for the FS?



No, we used Phrag. Fritz Schomburg 'Peach Parfait'. This FS came from HP Norton's breeding. We believe he used besseae 'Terry's Choice' to make it, which is also a 4N besseae. I definitely think it is a triploid Fritz Schomburg, as the flowers are a different color (more peach colored) than a 2N Fritz Schomburg, and the flower shape looks more like a besseae.

Here is a picture of Phrag. Fritz Schomburg 'Peach Parfait':




So, all of you that are into genetics can back me up, if we assume the FS that I used, was a triploid (with the besseae being a 4N parent, and thus giving it's offpring a double dose of besseae genes). The genetic background of the FS was roughly (if we aren't assuming any crossover of DNA) 33% kovachii and 67% besseae. By backcrossing this 3N Fritz Schomburg onto a 4N besseae again, the genetic background of Phrag. Robert-Jan Quene will be roughly 11% kovachii and 89% besseae. If you want me to explain how I get to these numbers I can give you guys the math...but it may be too boring for some... . This explains, why this plant looks so much like a besseae (but on steroids)!

If on the other hand if I would have used all diploid parents, Phrag. Fritz Schomburg would be 50% kovachii and 50% besseae, and Phrag. Robert-Jan Quene would be 25% kovachii and 75% besseae. It would be interesting to see what the differences would be! Would the flower be larger or smaller?

Now what I really would want to do, would be to cross Phrag. Fritz Schomburg 4N with besseae 'Rob's Choice' 4N, to get Phrag. Robert-Jan Quene 4N! But, I first will have to have a 4N kovachii to make a Fritz Schomburg 4N!

Robert


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## phrag guy (Nov 4, 2014)

awesome flower for sure


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## Lmpgs (Nov 4, 2014)

Beautiful!! Sometimes I feel awful for living in Europe! :drool:


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## monocotman (Nov 4, 2014)

*Ploidy*

Robert
Can you test this plant for chromosome number?
It is possible that you already have a 4n clone from this cross with this plant given the aneuploid nature of the FS parent. Triploids do produce the odd 2n gamete. 
David


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## Drorchid (Nov 4, 2014)

monocotman said:


> Robert
> Can you test this plant for chromosome number?
> It is possible that you already have a 4n clone from this cross with this plant given the aneuploid nature of the FS parent. Triploids do produce the odd 2n gamete.
> David



Yes, it is possible that it is already a 4N, sometimes when you cross a 3N with a 4N parent, a certain percentage, will end up as 4N plants. And yes, next time I do chromosome staining, I will add some roottips from this plant to count the chromosomes 

Robert


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## John M (Nov 4, 2014)

This is all very interesting, Robert.....and educational....and exciting! Thanks for the info and I wish you great success with this line of breeding in the future. This is a real winning hybrid cross! You're doing some really great work! Congratulations.

BTW: Robert, have you been sibbing your kovachiis and treating some to make 4n plants? Can we look forward to some 4n kovachii coming down the pipeline? Thanks.


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## Drorchid (Nov 4, 2014)

John M said:


> This is all very interesting, Robert.....and educational....and exciting! Thanks for the info and I wish you great success with this line of breeding in the future. This is a real winning hybrid cross! You're doing some really great work! Congratulations.
> 
> BTW: Robert, have you been sibbing your kovachiis and treating some to make 4n plants? Can we look forward to some 4n kovachii coming down the pipeline? Thanks.



Thanks John!

And to answer your second question, YES, we have, and Yes they will  ,although if we get any first generation ones, they will probably be used for our breeding work only, but once there is a second generation, I am sure they will come on the market..

Robert


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## Silvan (Nov 4, 2014)

Love it! Can't wait for the next batch to come out!!! 
And man that Fritz 'Peach Perfect' is awesome.


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## John M (Nov 5, 2014)

Drorchid said:


> Thanks John!
> 
> And to answer your second question, YES, we have, and Yes they will  ,although if we get any first generation ones, they will probably be used for our breeding work only, but once there is a second generation, I am sure they will come on the market..
> 
> Robert





Excellent news! It's hard to imagine a bigger kovachii with flatter, rounder petals and thick substance and more saturated colour. Wow!


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## cnycharles (Nov 5, 2014)

it looks like a besseae that's been poofed for the cover of cosmopolitan magazine 

and the last pic is really nice, too


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## Ryan Young (Nov 5, 2014)

Fantastic flower, with great results! 

Sent from my oneplus one


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## Drorchid (Nov 5, 2014)

An update on the flower measurements (It has grown since I first measured it!)

NS: 9.5 cm
Petal Width: 3.5 cm

Robert


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## Paphluvr (Nov 5, 2014)

I don't know about the cross in general, but this particular plant is fabulous! Outstanding form and color!


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## Drorchid (Nov 6, 2014)

Some new pictures I took this morning, showing the colors a little more accurately. The first pictures, the flower colors looked a little too much saturated.









and finally for scale, me and me..




Robert


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## Cheyenne (Nov 6, 2014)

Robert, is this the same plant that you posted a while ago in another thread about this cross or is this another one of the same batch. I didn't do a search yet but I thought you posted the flavum one also. Is that correct or was it something else I am thinking of?


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## Drorchid (Nov 6, 2014)

Cheyenne said:


> Robert, is this the same plant that you posted a while ago in another thread about this cross or is this another one of the same batch. I didn't do a search yet but I thought you posted the flavum one also. Is that correct or was it something else I am thinking of?



This is the same plant that flowered earlier (so thus far we have only bloomed one plant out of this cross). This time the flower was a lot larger. Here is the post when it bloomed the first time:
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31963

And yes, you are correct, I also did the same cross, using a Fritz Schomburg (made with a besseae flavum) crossed back to a besseae flavum. Here is that post:

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34669

Robert


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## Silvan (Nov 6, 2014)

Drorchid said:


> And yes, you are correct, I also did the same cross, using a Fritz Schomburg (made with a besseae flavum) crossed back to a besseae flavum. Here is that post:
> 
> http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34669
> 
> Robert



Did you also remade the cross using the bessea flavum? (please say yes..)


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## Drorchid (Nov 6, 2014)

Silvan said:


> Did you also remade the cross using the bessea flavum? (please say yes..)



unclear what you mean, but yes, I crossed Fritz Schomburg flavum x besseae flavum. They all came out yellow!

Robert


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## Silvan (Nov 6, 2014)

Drorchid said:


> unclear what you mean, but yes, I crossed Fritz Schomburg flavum x besseae flavum. They all came out yellow!
> 
> Robert



You said that you remade the RJ-Q recently and I was wondering if the one made with the flavum was also remade.


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## John M (Nov 6, 2014)

What is "RJ-Q"?


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## Silvan (Nov 6, 2014)

Robert-Jan Quene ...


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## Drorchid (Nov 7, 2014)

John M said:


> What is "RJ-Q"?



That is funny. Actually my nick name in college was RJQ

Robert


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## Drorchid (Nov 7, 2014)

Silvan said:


> You said that you remade the RJ-Q recently and I was wondering if the one made with the flavum was also remade.



No, I just remade the regular (red) form...But I can remake the yellow form too (just for you )

Robert


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## eteson (Nov 7, 2014)

Drorchid said:


> No, I just remade the regular (red) form...But I can remake the yellow form too (just for you )
> 
> Robert


Robert, put me on the list for one of each. The flavum is also very desirable.


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## John M (Nov 7, 2014)

Drorchid said:


> That is funny. Actually my nick name in college was RJQ
> 
> Robert



Duh! I must've been asleep at the keyboard!:rollhappy:


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