# Never again, ORCHID INN!



## papheteer (Apr 13, 2013)

I've have alot of not so nice experiences with orchid inn. Runts, plants with no roots, plants way smaller than advertised, twisty wire for roots, etc.. But I decided to give it one more try and order again. Decided to order 5 plants.

So this morning i went to the show to pick up the plants. As usual they were smaller than what was said on the website. But one plant in particular, a supposed BS delenatii dunkel, looked limp. So when I got home i unpotted it. Voila! Bad roots! Just one short dried up one. And it looked like it was just repotted too. I haven't checked the rest.

So I drove back and showed him the plant. He said that the short root was enough to establish the plant and that I have to wait 4 mos for the plant to recover. And he even said "that's why I tell my buyers not to repot right away?". Lol! So i mentioned to him all the plants with bad roots he sold me in the past. He said that its normal coz most of the plants were recently repotted. Doesn't make sense.

So the ending, he didnt wanna take the plant bareroot. He asked me to repot it coz he didnt have any media with him. And the plant needs to go back to his sales table!! That shocked me....

He does great breeding but what good is that when the plants are not healthy??

I vow to never buy plants from orchid inn again.
I don't know if it just happens to me or its happened to other people as well.

Here's a photo of the plant:


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## Ozpaph (Apr 13, 2013)

sorry to hear that.


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## papheteer (Apr 13, 2013)

A lesson will keep repeating itself until its learned.


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## limuhead (Apr 13, 2013)

Bummer, the 3 flasks I just got from him a few weeks ago were the best I've gotten in a very long time...


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## papheteer (Apr 13, 2013)

Not all his plants are bad. The ones on his table are immaculate! I guess when someone preorder he picks the worst plants. Or maybe he just does it to me. The very first time i order i didnt have any complains. But it's downhill from then on.


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## emydura (Apr 13, 2013)

It is immoral to sell a plant like that. I have bought a few like that over the years. It can be many years before the plant recovers if it does at all.


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## ehanes7612 (Apr 13, 2013)

you are not alone...with Sam..it's fifty fifty ...the flasks he sells are nice (unless they come to you damaged in route, which is more of his lab's fault, so i dont buy any flasks that are shipped from his lab, they're idiots. I have bought from him through the mail and from pickup at society meeting...a good half the plants don't have strong roots but they recover nicely..i have yet to lose any . I have bought his package deals of brachys (twice ) and random adult plants


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## jtrmd (Apr 13, 2013)

i learned the same lesson,but never lost a plant.I never got a plant from woodstream that had roots,or wasnt carrying some type of insect


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## Erythrone (Apr 13, 2013)

I bought Pahs with bad roots from many other growers. Paramount, Cloud's...

3 years ago I bought a Jade Dragon for OI and there were no roots at all. The plant was starving. I told it to Sam and brought me a new plant a few months after when he came in Canada.

I also get from him a Phrag Jason Fischer for free because of bad roots.


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## eggshells (Apr 13, 2013)

That is stupid telling a customer not to repot right away. If it was freshly repotted means that he knows that it does not have any good roots in the first place. And saying that it needs to recover or will recover is bullshit.


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## Hera (Apr 13, 2013)

jtrmd said:


> i learned the same lesson,but never lost a plant.I never got a plant from woodstream that had roots,or wasnt carrying some type of insect



A friend and I just had a problem with plants from him being over potted and lacking viable roots. In his defense he's had some personal issues that have been distracting from the business. As a criticism however, a business is only as good as its reputation. Word always gets around and this is a small community.


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## SlipperKing (Apr 13, 2013)

I have to chime in as well. Poor roots hear as well as under size plants. In my last order I got two randsii, both with the notorious green wire roots! He emailed me the same excuse " don't repot, poor roots, need to recover" Why not say so up front and see if I still wanted them? Or offer to knock off the price because of it?


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## papheteer (Apr 13, 2013)

And here's the thing. The plants on his sales table were perfect. In bloom
Multis for 75 buck? I also got an in bud Ho Chi Minh from the table. Funny i ordered one but canceled it. I bet had i not cancel i would have received something thats 5 years from blooming. I guess it's his way of disposing runts. Give them to those who preorder and those who buy online. The bigger healthier ones go to the sales table to attract new customers.


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## papheteer (Apr 13, 2013)

I guess to experienced growers, receiving these kinda plants don't really matter if they come from good breeding. But for someone like me who grows indoors under less-than-ideal conditions, buying plants as healthy as possible is of utmost importance.


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## eggshells (Apr 13, 2013)

papheteer said:


> And here's the thing. The plants on his sales table were perfect. In bloom
> Multis for 75 buck? I also got an in bud Ho Chi Minh from the table. Funny i ordered one but canceled it. I bet had i not cancel i would have received something thats 5 years from blooming. I guess it's his way of disposing runts. Give them to those who preorder and those who buy online. The bigger healthier ones go to the sales table to attract new customers.



My thoughts exactly. Let this be a lesson to all of us. This is an unacceptable business practice.


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## Stone (Apr 13, 2013)

Either you guys are spoiled or the sellers here are very bad growers! Most probably the latter. (or they just don't give a ****). 95% of the plants I buy are like that (at least the roots) I take it for granted now that I must give them intensive care before I even get them!


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## jtrmd (Apr 13, 2013)

papheteer said:


> I guess to experienced growers, receiving these kinda plants don't really matter if they come from good breeding. But for someone like me who grows indoors under less-than-ideal conditions, buying plants as healthy as possible is of utmost importance.



It makes a big difference


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## jtrmd (Apr 13, 2013)

Hera said:


> A friend and I just had a problem with plants from him being over potted and lacking viable roots. In his defense he's had some personal issues that have been distracting from the business. As a criticism however, a business is only as good as its reputation. Word always gets around and this is a small community.




I have been hearing it from a lot of people for years.I think I was actually warned before going there for the first time 10 years ago.My last plant (paph vietnamense) wasnt bad with roots(i made sure to give the plant a tug,and check to make sure it wasnt anchored ro the pot at the table before I bought it),but did have a visitor I missed tucked in between the bottom leaves.Everyone is guilty from time to time of finding a plant or two with [email protected]#y roots at repotting time.The only thing is I'm not selling my plants,and the ones I trade I usually double check before I even offer them.


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## NYEric (Apr 13, 2013)

Sorry to read that. Sam usually does have great plants at shows, i guess that's the time to buy.


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## ALToronto (Apr 13, 2013)

I went to the same show. There were two Paph vendors - Orchid Inn, with perfect but very pricey plants, and a local guy with lots of sketchy seedlings. I bought from the latter - a nice Phrag for $30 and a few young paphs for $5 - 10. Repotted them tonight, and most of the Paph roots came out with the soggy bark and CHC mixes. One Ho Chi Min had no roots at all, although the leaves were pretty good. 

I've bought too many plants with rotten roots, and their condition seems to be unrelated to their price. Vendors know how to make the top look good for sale, but what happens below grade is anybody's guess. So I've resigned to having to provide intensive care for the first 3-4 months, and for $5-10 per plant, at least it's not so painful to do so.

The Phrag, in good condition, is now in semi-hydro. The paphs are in Prime Agra and lava rock, but not in semi-hydro. All have been drenched in a high concentration of KelpMax. Fingers crossed.


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## SlipperKing (Apr 13, 2013)

I can attest to what I've seen coming out of Taiwan through Hawaii has good roots! James of Hilo always has good plants, top and bottoms.


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## papheteer (Apr 14, 2013)

ALToronto said:


> I went to the same show. There were two Paph vendors - Orchid Inn, with perfect but very pricey plants, and a local guy with lots of sketchy seedlings. I bought from the latter - a nice Phrag for $30 and a few young paphs for $5 - 10. Repotted them tonight, and most of the Paph roots came out with the soggy bark and CHC mixes. One Ho Chi Min had no roots at all, although the leaves were pretty good.
> 
> I've bought too many plants with rotten roots, and their condition seems to be unrelated to their price. Vendors know how to make the top look good for sale, but what happens below grade is anybody's guess. So I've resigned to having to provide intensive care for the first 3-4 months, and for $5-10 per plant, at least it's not so painful to do so.
> 
> The Phrag, in good condition, is now in semi-hydro. The paphs are in Prime Agra and lava rock, but not in semi-hydro. All have been drenched in a high concentration of KelpMax. Fingers crossed.



I bought 3 plants from the sketchy vendor. 1 magic lantern in bud with 3 new starts for 25. 1 huge bs shun fa golden for 15 and 1 bs micranthums for 15. All with great roots. I was kinda suspicious so i inspected them thoroughly and found nothing. But I asked if they had any insects. The guy was honest and said they may have mealies. I bought them anyways. I sprayed them heavily with end all and isolated them. Now my only regret is not buying more from him. When I came back most of the good plants were gone. I even saw a multi growth very healthy looking malipoense for 20!


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## ehanes7612 (Apr 14, 2013)

SlipperKing said:


> I can attest to what I've seen coming out of Taiwan through Hawaii has good roots! James of Hilo always has good plants, top and bottoms.



i second that


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## Paphman910 (Apr 14, 2013)

I heard the same from a vendor yesterday at the CVIOS orchid show. She said Sam's stuff have been terrible.


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## Erythrone (Apr 14, 2013)

SlipperKing said:


> I have to chime in as well. Poor roots hear as well as under size plants. In my last order I got two randsii, both with the notorious green wire roots! He emailed me the same excuse " don't repot, poor roots, need to recover" Why not say so up front and see if I still wanted them? Or offer to knock off the price because of it?



Since I am French speaking person and not very good in English, I don't always understand all te time what is written.

What does do you mean by norious green wire roots ?


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## eggshells (Apr 14, 2013)

Erythrone said:


> Since I am French speaking person and not very good in English, I don't always understand all te time what is written.
> 
> What does do you mean by norious green wire roots ?



Green twist ties as roots to hold the plant. I got some of this myself.


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## Shiva (Apr 14, 2013)

I think it means roots without the velamen covering them.
I got a few of those with Orchid Inn and others. I also learned my lesson with Orchid Inn. Now I prefer to wait and see what he has on his sales table. I noted that the plants I ordered from him are never as good or as large as those he sells at shows for the same price.


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## Shiva (Apr 14, 2013)

eggshells said:


> Green twist ties as roots to hold the plant. I got some of this myself.



I guess I was wrong then. But I got those too.:sob:


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## papheteer (Apr 14, 2013)

Well I got to return the plants a few minutes ago. And he was upset that i said something on this forum. Apparently he has friends from here that emailed him. He changed his story. He said he asked me to put the plant back in a mix "to save the plant", and not to "put it back on the table and sell it" like he said yesterday.... Lol

So basically he said he would appreciate it if i didnt post my experiences here on this forum!


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## Wendy (Apr 14, 2013)

That's too bad. I have ordered from Sam many times and have only had one with iffy roots. He said that he would exchange it but I told him not to worry as I thought it would be fine.....it was, but I appreciated him making the effort. I still wouldn't hesitate to order again as my experiences have always been positive.


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## papheteer (Apr 14, 2013)

Wendy. That's good to hear. Sam has nice plants breeding wise. I wish these things didnt happen. I'd still buy plants from his table. Where his best plants are.


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## Hera (Apr 14, 2013)

papheteer said:


> Well I got to return the plants a few minutes ago. And he was upset that i said something on this forum. Apparently he has friends from here that emailed him. He changed his story. He said he asked me to put the plant back in a mix "to save the plant", and not to "put it back on the table and sell it" like he said yesterday.... Lol
> 
> So basically he said he would appreciate it if i didnt post my experiences here on this forum!



Like I said, it's a small community. However, I don't think you misrepresented the situation or bashed him aggressively. You simply sounded frustrated. Been there and more than once. Nothing wrong with stating the facts or giving an opinion.


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## reivilos (Apr 14, 2013)

Lucky you, you didn't experience the dangling root syndrome!
I encounter situations like that from time to time, whatever the seller.
Anyway, a business owner is often judged by the way he/she settles disputes...


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## SlipperFan (Apr 14, 2013)

reivilos said:


> Lucky you, you didn't experience the dangling root syndrome!
> I encounter situations like that from time to time, whatever the seller.
> Anyway, a business owner is often judged by the way he/she settles disputes...


Well said -- every commercial grower, as well as us hobbyists, can have plants in their care with poor roots. It is impossible for sellers to know the condition of the roots of every plant they sell. But it is how the matter is settled that reputations are built on.


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## Hugorchids (Apr 14, 2013)

I've ordered twice from Sam, same story. I got mostly green wired roots when I inspected the plants. It's a good thing I prefer to use my own mix when I get a new shipment. the last order was several flasks from a lab that he uses. A few flasks were simply not yet ready before shipping them out. While I think Sam is a great breeder and grower, I think he spread himself too thin and quality is going downhill. Hopefully things will improve.


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## atlantis (Apr 14, 2013)

I´m glad to see I´m not the only one who has had bad experiences with such a famous vendor.
I purchased two plants from OI. Both were bought *bare root*. 

- P. chamberlainianum "Last Warrior": this plant looked healthy but the roots were a bit dissapointing (see picture #1). I´ve been trying to get some new roots for more than a year (successfully). Now the plant starts to grow again. I´ll be lucky if I can see it in flower in less than 5 years (it´s an extremely slow grower).

- P. lowii "New Horizon" x "Mem. Agnes Helbling" AM/AOS: it was my first multi so I wrote to OI in order to be sure he has some multigrowth plant before ordering (NBS plant, of course...).
I picked up a nice plan with two growths (one of them had a good size and the other one was smaller but quite acceptable).
When I took off the paper from the roots, I realised they were two separated plants that were put together in the same package (Have I mentioned that I payed for a NBS multigrowth lowii?) (see picture #2, half and a year after I bought them).

I felt I had been ripped off because this kind of mistakes can´t happen by accident. I can understand that someone sells a planted plant with bad roots without knowing it (I have had "healthy plants" with no roots too) but my plants were bought bare root. And what about the lowii? There´s no excuse for this.


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## cnycharles (Apr 14, 2013)

though it is possible for an older plant to split when it's taken out of a pot (and end up with two plants instead of one), a quick inspection should be able to tell if that did happen. also sometimes if you have a large place and the owner is traveling a lot, you are at the mercy of your shippers. 

I know at former work there were many times when I saw shipping help picking up stuff that wasn't saleable to fill up a last cart or two, and had the team leaders encouraging them to do so. 

like someone said about spreading thin, if you do so you are at the mercy of your help and need a trusted last resort to check on things before they go out the door (so the owner may not be the one looking at the plants before they are picked for shipping). .. and to top that off, if an owner is going to a show, likely it will be him/her picking out the best plants to represent the business (since they will be standing next to the plants). sometimes this is just poor training of help who will be picking out shipping plants, all of this is very important because it seems like i've heard this for a number of years on the forum here. too bad that being a good breeder doesn't also mean you are a great grower or trainer/hirer of good help :/


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## Erythrone (Apr 14, 2013)

eggshells said:


> Green twist ties as roots to hold the plant. I got some of this myself.



OK!!! I now understand!!! I get a few with small seedlings!

:rollhappy::rollhappy:


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## abax (Apr 15, 2013)

This thread really surprises me. I've ordered Paphs. from OI on and off for
years and the plants have always been very nice with good to excellent
roots. All of them have thrived for me. Sam's plants have also been shipped on time and in very good condition on arrival.


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## fibre (Apr 15, 2013)

I like Sam's flasks a lot! 
And I prefer to order divisions, not seedlings as these need quite a lot of time to adapt to my conditions.


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## The Orchid Boy (Apr 16, 2013)

Too bad... I got a bellatulum with twist tie roots. It looks like it had just recovered its roots, luckily. I think my Paph. delenatii v. dunkel will die soon though. See here: Rot??? I'm 100% sure that I didn't do anything to start or help the rot. I noticed one leaf like that when I got it but thought nothing of it. I preordered a P. delenatii dunkel and alba and P. bellatulum. I bought a P. urbanianum seedling and P. Wossner Kolosuk album seedling from the table. Everything was good except for the dunkel delenatii. I'll see how good he is at replacing stuff... I definitely agree that the display table stuff is definitely better than the preorder stuff. I want to get a maliopense from him at the next show (not preorder) and should I take the risk of preordering a sanderianum flask from him?


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## ehanes7612 (Apr 16, 2013)

his flasks are great as long as he ships them with cotton in them..but if you are picking them up then you dont have to worry about that as you can inspect them real easy


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## gonewild (Apr 16, 2013)

I still don't understand the twist wire roots? Does he actually tie on wires to be artificial roots buried in the media?


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## ehanes7612 (Apr 16, 2013)

gonewild said:


> I still don't understand the twist wire roots? Does he actually tie on wires to be artificial roots buried in the media?



with my first brachy package i mistakenly repotted all of them and found a couple with twisty ties and little root..pretty sure they act as an anchor..they all lived but took an extra time recovering...with my second and third package i know there were twisty ties on some of them but i didnt repot them and they all look great and some have bloomed


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## chrismende (Apr 17, 2013)

I have bought from Sam repeatedly - many flasks and many plants. Only once did a plant turn out to have poor roots. I felt I should have inspected it sooner - I had waited until after bloom since it was in spike. By then it needed lengthy recovery. In the future I will simply request that there be a root inspection prior to shipping. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## The Orchid Boy (Apr 19, 2013)

That P. delenatii v. dunkel is totally rotted now. I contacted Sam and he said he'd send one right away once he gets back from Japan. Not sure, but it sounded like he'd pick it himself. So Orchid Inn still has me as a customer, everything else I got from him was fine. I'll probably get a sanderianum flask from him at next year's show.


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## ALToronto (Apr 19, 2013)

The Orchid Boy said:


> That P. delenatii v. dunkel is totally rotted now. I contacted Sam and he said he'd send one right away once he gets back from Japan. Not sure, but it sounded like he'd pick it himself. So Orchid Inn still has me as a customer, everything else I got from him was fine. I'll probably get a sanderianum flask from him at next year's show.



Think this thread might have anything to do with his willingness to replace the plant? He has a reputation to rebuild now, it'll be a lot tougher than building it the first time.


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## ehanes7612 (Apr 19, 2013)

ALToronto said:


> Think this thread might have anything to do with his willingness to replace the plant? He has a reputation to rebuild now, it'll be a lot tougher than building it the first time.



dont kid yourself, his reputation hasnt been hit by this thread....or anything that goes on in ST..but if you personally press Sam enough he will replace items ..but he will fight you on it first..he's very stubborn.


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## gonewild (Apr 19, 2013)

ehanes7612 said:


> dont kid yourself, his reputation hasnt been hit by this thread....or anything that goes on in ST.



When a drug dealer sells his users bad drugs the users still come back for more.
:clap:


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## papheteer (Apr 19, 2013)

ehanes7612 said:


> dont kid yourself, his reputation hasnt been hit by this thread....or anything that goes on in ST..but if you personally press Sam enough he will replace items ..but he will fight you on it first..he's very stubborn.



I didnt hope for that. But I hope he starts selling better plants from now on. Like the plants that he has on his sales table. I still think he is an amazing breeder.


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## ehanes7612 (Apr 19, 2013)

he's been known as a 'bad grower' for as long as i can remember (from 1996) ..and has been selling bad , as well as good plants since then..i have heard his divisions are even worse ..i have a greenhouse so if i want something bad enough from him i will know it may take some time to recover from his growing(for example, some gigantifolium hybrids, but they were cheap, so i took the chance)....but i wouldn't recommend him to anyone who grows indoors..there are much better growers out there ..his flasks are a different story , though... very good breeding and if the lab doesnt screw up the shipping , you get a great product
also, you have to consider what his specialties are..parvis arent one of them..and he's admitted that he cant grow them very well..he loves brachys and roths , so he seems to give them better care..i have bought 30 brachys from him and havent been disappointed for the most part (package deals)..i suspect his roths are similar


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## papheteer (Apr 19, 2013)

ehanes7612 said:


> he's been known as a 'bad grower' for as long as i can remember (from 1996) ..and has been selling bad , as well as good plants since then..i have heard his divisions are even worse ..i have a greenhouse so if i want something bad enough from him i will know it may take some time to recover from his growing(for example, some gigantifolium hybrids, but they were cheap, so i took the chance)....but i wouldn't recommend him to anyone who grows indoors..there are much better growers out there ..his flasks are a different story , though... very good breeding and if the lab doesnt screw up the shipping , you get a great product
> also, you have to consider what his specialties are..parvis arent one of them..and he's admitted that he cant grow them very well..he loves brachys and roths , so he seems to give them better care..i have bought 30 brachys from him and havent been disappointed for the most part (package deals)..i suspect his roths are similar




That explains a lot. Thanks


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## limuhead (Apr 19, 2013)

Kind of strange, these are flasks I got recently, just rinsed off the media and dropped them into compots. I think they are making progress in the short time they have been potted up...


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## ehanes7612 (Apr 19, 2013)

limuhead said:


> Kind of strange, these are flasks I got recently, just rinsed off the media and dropped them into compots. I think they are making progress in the short time they have been potted up...



like i said, his flasks are pretty good


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## ehanes7612 (Apr 19, 2013)

another thing, is that he doesnt actually grow his plants out of flask..he has his lab do that ..and he receives them once they are established...but not all of them establish good roots in a compot (anyone wh grows their plants in compots for awhile know this)..so if you are receiving plants that are small enough to keep in compots for a long time (like parvis)..you run the risk of receiving plants like your dunkel


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## limuhead (Apr 19, 2013)

After reading posts on ST I'm not so sure about buying plants, but will be buying more flasks from Sam for sure...


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## Ozpaph (Apr 19, 2013)

limuhead said:


> After reading posts on ST I'm not so sure about buying plants, but will be buying more flasks from Sam for sure...



did you remove the agar?
I like Sams flasks but found that removing most of the very stiff agar is necessary to get good root growth in the compot.


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## ehanes7612 (Apr 19, 2013)

Ozpaph said:


> did you remove the agar?
> I like Sams flasks but found that removing most of the very stiff agar is necessary to get good root growth in the compot.



i second that


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## gonewild (Apr 19, 2013)

ehanes7612 said:


> another thing, is that he doesnt actually grow his plants out of flask..he has his lab do that ..and he receives them once they are established...but not all of them establish good roots in a compot (anyone wh grows their plants in compots for awhile know this)..so if you are receiving plants that are small enough to keep in compots for a long time (like parvis)..you run the risk of receiving plants like your dunkel



Do you know where the lab is that grows them out? Where are they shipped from?


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## Bob in Albany N.Y. (Apr 19, 2013)

Lance, I thought it was the Roots that are doing his flasking out of California, but I could be wrong.


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## ehanes7612 (Apr 20, 2013)

The Roots (CA)..occasionally he has the flasks left over from shows that he has at home though..which is the only way i will buy them


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## The Mutant (Apr 21, 2013)

Oh dear. I've recently participated in a joint order from OI, where I've ordered a delantii var dunkel among others. Should I worry? I also ordered a Delrosi, an urbanianum and a barbatum. All BS or NBS. They will be shipped barerooted and I'm prepared to toss them into my terrarium (more known as "the sick bay") until they establish themselves, but now I got really concerned.


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## Ozpaph (Apr 22, 2013)

don't fret. At least if they are 'bare rooted' the sender knows the conditions of the roots before they arrive. It would be foolish to send rootless plants knowing they were rootless.


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## The Mutant (Apr 23, 2013)

Ozpaph said:


> don't fret. At least if they are 'bare rooted' the sender knows the conditions of the roots before they arrive. It would be foolish to send rootless plants knowing they were rootless.


Alright, now I feel better, thanks.  I was mostly worried about the delantii (and the Delrosi, it's a half-toilette after all  ), since it would be quite ironic if I lost the first toilette-Paph I've personally purchased, due to rot or something


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## Ozpaph (Apr 24, 2013)

The Mutant said:


> toilette-



????????????????


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## cnycharles (Apr 24, 2013)

Ozpaph said:


> ????????????????



she means the paphs with toilet-bowl shaped pouches


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## Ozpaph (Apr 24, 2013)

cnycharles said:


> she means the paphs with toilet-bowl shaped pouches



:rollhappy::rollhappy::rollhappy:that's funny. I've never thought of them that way, yet toilet humor runs strong with me.


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## Paul (Apr 26, 2013)

From my experience, almost all plants I've got from Sam have grown very well, (I would say less than 10% lost, maybe depends on my past growing conditions or on the plants themselves). Just one time, a flask was upside down and plants damaged. The other thing is that I have found sometimes crosses seem to be false (about 5 times for me). Sam always does his best for me when I ask him.
So he's not perfect, can be better sometimes but he always have interesting things to get.


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## Justin (Apr 26, 2013)

i have always had great plants from Orchid Inn. I have had trouble establishing his roth divisions though and have lost several of those (never buy a single-growth roth division) but the flasks and plants i have gotten have always been top quality.


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## The Mutant (May 2, 2013)

Ozpaph said:


> :rollhappy::rollhappy::rollhappy:that's funny. I've never thought of them that way, yet toilet humor runs strong with me.


"Toilet" was the first thing that popped up in my mind the first time I saw a micranthum, "urinal" the second thing. :rollhappy:

(thanks for correcting my spelling of "toilet", I thought it looked weird)


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## Paul (May 24, 2013)

hello,

here are the plants arrived today from Sam. All are quite good (leaves + roots), except the hirsutissimum that has almost no roots... 
+ one roths flask (Perfecto x Raptor)


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## Bob in Albany N.Y. (May 24, 2013)

Paul, excuse me for putting my two cents in, but those plants look way overpotted to me. Just something to think about. But than again, who knows better than you.


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## reivilos (May 24, 2013)

You're lucky Paul. I hope mine will be delivered tomorrow.


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## Justin (May 24, 2013)

looking good! What are the parents behind roth 'Perfecto' and roth 'Raptor'? What other roth crosses did you get?


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## Paphman910 (May 24, 2013)

Justin said:


> looking good! What are the parents behind roth 'Perfecto' and roth 'Raptor'? What other roth crosses did you get?



I think Sam quoted on his list that it is from Japanese breeding Val x MM for the Raptor and 'Perfecto' is from Orchid Zone Rex x MM


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## ronan (May 25, 2013)

reivilos said:


> You're lucky Paul. I hope mine will be delivered tomorrow.



i just get mine! :clap:


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## reivilos (May 25, 2013)

At last! Yessss!


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## The Mutant (May 26, 2013)

I got my latest order from Orchid Inn today:

The Paph. barbatum x sib ('Wesley' x 'Perfect Circle') BS, had two roots, which were not viable. The rest of the plant is great with two well grown growths, but with such a lousy root system, I can't see it getting enough nutrients to the leaves...

The second one, Paph. urbanianum x sib ('Shine and Glory' x 'Rainbow') NBS, also had a bad root system, but it was slightly better than the previous one, plus it's only a single, very healthy looking, growth plant, so I think it might be able to get enough water/nutrients to the leaves.

The third one, Paph. delenatii var. vinicolor x sib ('Purple Lantern' x Purple Delight') NBS, was overall in excellent condition. I'm really pleased with it.

The last one, Paph. Delrosi (rothschildianum x delenatii var. vinicolor) BS, was just awesome, with three mature growths and one heck of a root system. I'm so pleased with it that I'm practically on cloud nine! :rollhappy:

Overall, the plants were great looking (the root system on the barbatum being the only exception), and I'll definitely order from Sam again.


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## Scott Ware (May 26, 2013)

It's fascinating to note the title of this thread contrasted with the more recent posts it contains. It just might support that old notion that there is no such thing as bad publicity (with the exception of our own obituary, of course). Oscar Wilde put it another way: _"The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about."_

In most areas of commerce it's much more common for only those dissatisfied with a product or transaction to share their experience. The orchid industry seems more balanced in that we are just as likely to share our positive experiences.


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## reivilos (May 26, 2013)

Scott Ware said:


> It's fascinating to note the title of this thread contrasted with the more recent posts it contains. It just might support that old notion that there is no such thing as bad publicity (with the exception of our own obituary, of course). Oscar Wilde put it another way: _"The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about."_



Don't get me wrong. I've already been disappointed by a few of his plants (bad roots, littles plants etc.) that are already on the other side. Some of them wouldn't even be put to sale here in the EU. However I still order because:
- he's one of the few (-not the only one-) US paph nursery I contacted that bothers answering his mail
- he has what looks like a 'selection program', and the EU market is not selection-oriented at all.
- he's the only one to offer a few crosses.
The issue with the orchid industry is that it's small, and shrinking. Everyone knows each other. If you start talking too much, you may get in trouble.


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## ronan (May 26, 2013)

the sanderianum flask was *very* difficult to deflask...the roth one much easy. both with nicely sized paph
thus except one plant (wossner*sand) with broken roots all other were quite nice and the parishii is in sheat.

yep, orchid inn is not perfect. more roots will be better, but usually it's not a real problem and it always flowered nicely for me.


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## papheteer (May 26, 2013)

Well I'm glad to hear that you guys are getting better plants than I did. I am pretty sure Sam has read/heard all of what's written in this thread by now. I hope what we're seeing now is continuous improvement in his products.


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## The Orchid Boy (May 31, 2013)

May I ask, why was the sanderianum flask so difficult to deflask? And, he has them in stock? Last I saw they weren't listed and he said he didn't have any. What's the cross?


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## dodidoki (Jun 1, 2013)

I got four plants from Sam yesterday.
They are nice, big plants, but I noticed, too, that theis roots are very poor.... I don't understand how they could grow big with few short roots...these roots are otherwise aren't rotted, healthy all of them, but a large kolo with 3-4 pieces, 10-12 cm long roots, when plant is 60-70 cm LS with 6 leaves?????

Over allk I think these plants have good potential to survive.


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## ronan (Jun 1, 2013)

The Orchid Boy said:


> May I ask, why was the sanderianum flask so difficult to deflask? And, he has them in stock? Last I saw they weren't listed and he said he didn't have any. What's the cross?



so many long, thin and delicate roots...


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## Paphman910 (Jun 1, 2013)

ronan said:


> so many long, thin and delicate roots...



Agree, but the roots are also very brittle!


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## Paphman910 (Jun 1, 2013)

dodidoki said:


> I got four plants from Sam yesterday.
> They are nice, big plants, but I noticed, too, that theis roots are very poor.... I don't understand how they could grow big with few short roots...these roots are otherwise aren't rotted, healthy all of them, but a large kolo with 3-4 pieces, 10-12 cm long roots, when plant is 60-70 cm LS with 6 leaves?????
> 
> Over allk I think these plants have good potential to survive.



I have seen this happen in the past. One of our local member who passed away many years ago had plants like what you describe. 

In his conditions of high humidity, and keeps his plant medium barely moist. He always foliar feed his plants and use a fine sprayer to water the medium. He always has nice large plants with a few roots!

They will adapt to your conditions and put out new roots!


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## ronan (Jun 1, 2013)

Paphman910 said:


> Agree, but the roots are also very brittle!


yes.


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## The Orchid Boy (Jul 27, 2013)

I ordered 2 plants from Orchid Inn and got a 3rd one. I ordered a big Paph. malipoense in bud ($50) and a 4 growth Paph. spicerianum ($20). He also sent a Paph. delenatii f. vinicolor for free to replace my other one. They seem to have good roots.

Here's a picture of the malipoense...


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## ALToronto (Jul 27, 2013)

Your non-orchid plants aren't doing too well... I have trouble finding the energy to care for them too.


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## abax (Jul 27, 2013)

I haven't ordered from Sam in a while, but I've always been very pleased
with his plants. Seems to me that the best way to get good plants is building a relationship with the vendor even if it's long distance. Trust is
most important and should never be compromised.


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## The Orchid Boy (Jul 28, 2013)

ALToronto said:


> Your non-orchid plants aren't doing too well... I have trouble finding the energy to care for them too.



Yeah, I sometimes forget to water them. Orchids are my top priority. Some of the other plants look dead but I've been able to revive them.


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