# Novelty Phalaenopsis - Flower Quality by plant's age



## bigleaf (Oct 23, 2013)

My friend Eddy Su posted this picture on Facebook and asked for my opinion

This is WZ396 Phal Yaphon To-Too 
(fimbriata X KS Happy Eagle)







I said that I think the flower is nice, but I'm a bit skeptical that this flower could be this round with this parentage. species parent Phal fimbriata is star shape with narrow segments.

To convince me, Eddy sent me a first bloom photo of the same plant.





What a difference! The lesson here is not to judge a first bloom novelty by flower shape. Grow it better and flower quality usually improves on a larger plant.

The rounder flower form came from Phal bellina influence from Phal. K S Happy Eagle (Phal. Dragon Tree Eagle X Phal. Nobby's Fox)


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## SlipperFan (Oct 23, 2013)

It's very pretty. Too bad the dorsal sepal is hooded, though. Maybe that will flatten next time.


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## SlipperKing (Oct 23, 2013)

Interesting, Thanks


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## abax (Oct 24, 2013)

What are you seeing that I can't, Dot? The color combination of light and
dark pastels is quite lovely.


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## paphreek (Oct 24, 2013)

Interesting observation, Peter. I have seen the same thing happen with Paphs.


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## Secundino (Oct 24, 2013)

I regularly wonder who decides that a rounder form is 'better' than a starry form, that 'flat' is better than hooded or 3-dimensional, that bigger is better than little... When I first saw the first picture it was Wow! but than I saw the second (many flowers of course, other photography) and spontaneously thought "I'd take the second one!"

Most orchids I've had show an improvement of shape with age of the plant, but mostly with strenght and 'well-being' (wahtever this for an orchid means) and, as I don't have an GH in the moment, it is strongly related to temperature/light/humidity conditions (weather that is) how the flower will grow. 

Btw, I am not particularly fond of 'modern' Phal. breeding, but this one is really beautyful. The combination of mauve/blue with greenish leaf tips is simply charming.


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## Linus_Cello (Oct 24, 2013)

Is this plant polyploid (tri or tetra)? Don't polypoids exhibit rounder shape?

I actually have the reverse for one paph. The first time it bloomed, it was much rounder; the bloom is bigger, but less round.


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## goldenrose (Oct 24, 2013)

Beautiful!


SlipperFan said:


> It's very pretty. Too bad the dorsal sepal is hooded, though. Maybe that will flatten next time.


also notice that the petal tips are a bit pinched with both bloomings. I don't know phals & the species involved but could this be characteristics that one may never lose? It would be a keeper for me!


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## bigleaf (Oct 24, 2013)

We would judge each flower by their parentage. Being that this is a Phal fimbriata hybrid, I think the shape exhibit an improvement.

A link to Phal fimbraita photo on Alain's site
http://phals.net/fimbriata/

Dot - hooded dorsal is a trait in many colorful fragrant species such as Phal amboinensis and bellina. I don't think it's a flaw but if generally we would prefer it to be more flat.

goldenrose - yes, there is a slight pinch on petals. It's a trait I observe in Phal micholitzii hybrid. Under ideal condition the petals will be more flat but I don't think it goes away completely. Let me see if I can find photos of cupped vs flat.

Secun and Angela- color is what sold the flower on the first bloom. Maybe flower count too. Although I have no problem with star shape, we generally prefer rounder because star shape is expected from the parentage.


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## bigleaf (Oct 24, 2013)

goldenrose - slightly pinch is more noticeable on hybrid with rounder petals from novelty. This can be traced to species Phal micholitzii - which has variable flower quality depending on condition.

A fuller form of this species





Borrowed this picture from Facebook that belonged to Mr Liao Yong-Sheng- we can see pinched petals. It's a trait that associate more with heavier flower substance. It's better than reflex.


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## eaborne (Oct 24, 2013)

Super!


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## SlipperFan (Oct 24, 2013)

abax said:


> What are you seeing that I can't, Dot? The color combination of light and
> dark pastels is quite lovely.


I was only commenting on the hooded dorsal.


bigleaf said:


> ...
> Dot - hooded dorsal is a trait in many colorful fragrant species such as Phal amboinensis and bellina. I don't think it's a flaw but if generally we would prefer it to be more flat.
> ...



Maybe it's the angle. I've not noticed so much of a hood on the amboinensis and bellina flowers I've seen in person.


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## abax (Oct 24, 2013)

Oh, o.k., Dot. I see what you mean now. I was so carried away by the
colors I didn't even notice the slight hood on the dorsal. Reflexing bothers
me, but a little bit of a dorsal hood doesn't bother me at all.


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## goldenrose (Oct 25, 2013)

Thanks Peter! I like the 'character' of the flower, doesn't bother me a bit!
I've liked phals but I don't think my winter temps in the GH are to their liking. I have a new indoor warm house so I'm trying a few, oh boy this could be trouble down the road!


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## abax (Oct 26, 2013)

I promise you it will be "trouble" down the road, rose. Once you start
enjoying the ease and long bloom time of both species, primaries and
hybrids, you are in the stuck. Mr. Lin can keep you there too. Even before
the daffodils are out, my greenhouse is glorious with blooming Phals. They
keep me going during those loooooong almost spring months.


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## bigleaf (Oct 27, 2013)

Thank you Angela.



goldenrose said:


> but I don't think my winter temps in the GH are to their liking. I have a new indoor warm house so I'm trying a few, oh boy this could be trouble down the road!



I have similar problem here in North Texas. We have dry air, very low outdoor humidity. I have difficulty keeping humidity up inside of my greenhouse. I kept my GH at 65F, but parts of the greenhouse would go down to 50s (I.e. Sidewall that is not heated, greenhouse uses under bench hot water heating)

Best thing to do in he winter is to keep the plants dry. Wet roots and low temperature below 60F can kill the plants quickly. But keeping the plants dry means that the humidity needs to be higher in the 70-80 percent so they don't suffer dehydration stress.

I haven't installed under bench misting on a timer yet. However, I think I may have to install a high pressure misting. Currently my overhead misting nozzles put out too much water, okay for summer warmer month but maybe fatal for winter.


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## Ozpaph (Oct 27, 2013)

a very nice novelty


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## Leo Schordje (Oct 28, 2013)

Lovely and a graphic demonstration on the adage, "culture is everything"

I have always been amazed at how much flowers can improve as a plant matures. The difference in flowers between a first bloom seedling versus a mature Phal with 3 or 4 pairs of leaves is surprising, and it's good to see.


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