# viniferum



## Stone (Mar 20, 2012)

are callosum var vinicolor, viniferum, callosum 'Jac' the same thing? are they true species? or callosum forms?


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## Paphman910 (Mar 20, 2012)

Stone said:


> are callosum var vinicolor, viniferum, callosum 'Jac' the same thing? are they true species? or callosum forms?



no! Sam said they are completely difference species because I was asking about the Paph callosum 'vini' x self flask. I have not found much information on the internet regarding this form.


Paphman910


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## Rick (Mar 21, 2012)

I've heard a couple different stories. I think Xavier may have had one of the more comprehensive.

Last I can recall is that "viniferum" has ended up in some old wild collections of callosum, and you won't be able to go into the forest in some country like Laos or Vietnam and find actual populations in the woods of viniferum.

That doesn't make for much of a "species" in my book, even if the handful of viniferum in cultivation have distinct DNA differences from vini-calosum.

The other part of the story is the continuous genetic smear of callosum to callosum var sublaeve to barbatum as you go from Laos/Vietnam to Malaysia. It's one big highly variable intergrade continuum, with 3 arbitrarily distinct (?) taxon carved out of it. So yes there are vini's and alba's and everything else in between.


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## UweM (Mar 22, 2012)

Hello Stone,

have a look here:

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18605&highlight=viniferum


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## Stone (Mar 22, 2012)

UweM said:


> Hello Stone,
> 
> have a look here:
> 
> http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18605&highlight=viniferum



Thankyou UweM, interesting thread. So from what I can gather, Callosum ''JAC'' came from Laos, only one was found and it seems all vinis are selfings from Jac?


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## Leo Schordje (Mar 27, 2012)

UweM said:


> Hello Stone,
> 
> have a look here:
> 
> http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18605&highlight=viniferum



This thread is really good, and with the notes added through the 3 pages it is an accurate recounting of the tale of callosum 'Jac' or viniferum 'Jac' tale as I remember it. It is correct that callosum 'Jac is synonymous with viniferum 'Jac'. 

However there is a part of the story not mentioned. There are 2 different genetic pathways to get vinicolor Paphs. As mentioned by Cliokchi there were other vinicolors found. 

Paph viniferum 'Jac' is recessive in the expression of the fully color saturated vinicolor trait. When hybridized with a normal color form of other barbatum group species or hybrids, the resulting hetrozygous offspring will be peacock flame types, not full vinicolors. These are lovely, and really make very saleable pot plants. When these F1 seedlings are selfed or sibbed the results are 25% full 'Jac' type vinicolors complete with heavy warts and spots on the petals. 50% Peacock Flame types and 25% normal colored flowers. 

Rex van Delden already had Paph callosum 'Sparkling Burgundy' which is the other type of vinicolor that Cliokchi alluded to. It has very few warts or spots on its petals and in form and habit, resembles Paph callosum. When 'Sparkling Burgundy' is crossed with a normal, the offspring come out 50% vinicolored, 50% normal coloratum, not as Peacock Flames. This indicates that 'Sparkling Burgundy' is hetrogyzous for the vinicolor trait, and it is a different gene affecting a different point in the deveopment process involved in producing vinicolors. It is speculated that in the homozygous state, this vinicolor gene is lethal, or deleterious enough that few if any seedlings survive, so all known 'Sparkling Burgundy' progeny are hetrozygous for this vinicolor trait. 

Rex then crossed 'Sparkling Burgundy' x 'Jac' in the effort to develop a 'Super' population of vinicolor callosum that would give at least 50% vinicolors and the rest would be very saleable peacock flames. Also to tone down the heavy wartiness of the viniferum 'Jac' petals. This was done with commercial nurseries in mind, to create the stud plants nurseries would need to supply vinicolor Maudiae types for the market. 

Modern vinis, may be of either "Sparkling Burgundy' type or of 'Jac' type and quite a few have both traits, and one can not sort it out unless the plant in question is used to make a couple test crosses with normals, and enough offspring are raised out to see what the segregation ratios for vini-normals & whether or not peacock flames are part of the offspring. 

I did write this from memory, rather than digging up the old Orchids Diget article on vinicolor breeding written by Koopowitz or Hasegawa. So if I apologize in advance if I mis-remembered anything here. I think I got it right.


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