# Cultural Faux Pas?



## JAB (Jan 8, 2016)

So I have bought orchids from a woman in New York and was overall happy with the purchase. When I inquired about the source of the specific Paph's I bought I received a coy "From a very good source." I received the same response to the same question about some of her Paph tigrinum's she has for sale currently. I explained that I wanted to keep meticulous notes for (hopefully) future breeding projects. Again her reply was rather vague "From a trusted source in Taiwan."

My question is this... is this common? Am I making some sort of orchid social faux pas? I experienced this one other time at the local show here in Seattle last November where a vendor avoided answering where his Paph gratrixianum was from. All others I have every dealt with (Orchids Ltd. Norman Fang, Lucky Girl Orchids, Seattle Orchid, Fox Valley etc.) have been nothing but upfront and willing to share. 

Quite honestly it makes me think she is up to something unscrupulous! 
Thoughts?
Thanks
JAB


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## gonewild (Jan 8, 2016)

Re-sellers generally dont like to reveal their suppliers. That is especially true if their suppliers sell resale as well. That is really true for all types of merchandise.
Perhaps you should have asked a little different question like..."Who is the breeder of the hybrids?" Justify the question with the fact you want to keep accurate track of the genetics used in the plants. Then it may not sound like you want to buy direct from her source.


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## Ozpaph (Jan 8, 2016)

I find that flasks/seedlings, at least in Oz, may have passed through a few hands before they get to you. So the provenance is clouded. However, many flasks have 'codes' which you can track back to the original breeder ie they tend to be unique, often starting with certain letters (see Ching Hua and Sam Tsui lists, for example)


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## JAB (Jan 8, 2016)

Lance,
I was very clear what my intentions were on each account. 
Oz,
Fair enough, but I don't get the impression that is the case. 

I find it a bit silly that with the invention of the internet that anyone bothers to worry about such trivial things. If she has a greenhouse and is doing business on a large level she is getting things wholesale which will always beat any retail price. I'm a windowsill grower... could never even come close to volume she can get. Seems rather insecure to worry about such things. 

Thanks guys,
Jake


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## emydura (Jan 8, 2016)

Ozpaph said:


> I find that flasks/seedlings, at least in Oz, may have passed through a few hands before they get to you. So the provenance is clouded. However, many flasks have 'codes' which you can track back to the original breeder ie they tend to be unique, often starting with certain letters (see Ching Hua and Sam Tsui lists, for example)



I never know why sellers wouldn't be advertising where there plants come from. If I know a flask or a plant comes from TON, or Orchid Inn or OZ I'm much more likely to buy it. It is a selling point. Most plants that I see sold on eBay never include the parents involved. A rothschildianum is simply sold as a rothschildianum. They never get my money as a result.


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## SlipperFan (Jan 8, 2016)

Lance is correct -- generally retail sellers don't want to disclose their sources. Even if they aren't concerned that you will buy directly from their sources, you might spread the word, and you know how fast the word travels!


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## cattmad (Jan 8, 2016)

I sell a little bit on ebay here and I always supply the provenance when known, which is 99% of the time and to be honest I don't trust those who don't.

There again, I only buy directly from reputable sources such as orchid inn, TON or OZ


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## JAB (Jan 8, 2016)

Exactly David and Cattmad!


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## NYEric (Jan 9, 2016)

Unless they are from a source that needs to be kept discreet, or she doesn't want people to know her dealings or price point.


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## Ozpaph (Jan 9, 2016)

emydura said:


> I never know why sellers wouldn't be advertising where there plants come from. If I know a flask or a plant comes from TON, or Orchid Inn or OZ I'm much more likely to buy it. It is a selling point. Most plants that I see sold on eBay never include the parents involved. A rothschildianum is simply sold as a rothschildianum. They never get my money as a result.



That's because many come from Thailand and SEAsia with no name parents. I often inquire of eBay sellers and get vague feedback - that's either evasive or they dont know (poor records, unknown provenance, don't care...), but some do answer. Now whether they are true to label is another matter.
As always "buyer beware".


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## Ozpaph (Jan 9, 2016)

NYEric said:


> Unless they are from a source that needs to be kept discreet, or she doesn't want people to know her dealings or price point.



or, in the USA, there's a CITES issue.


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## NYEric (Jan 9, 2016)

That would be a matter of discretion.


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## cnycharles (Jan 9, 2016)

Sometimes there are foreign flask etc sources that they've worked to be able to find and they may lose some business if others find it out (already mentioned here I think). Also there are people suppliers who just don't like dealing with the public. They love growing but really only want one trusted outsource to market their plants; I had this instance when I wanted to track where some southern phal lowii were being produced. I did eventually locate the outsource and then after promising to not release, contact with the grower


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## Paphluvr (Jan 9, 2016)

I think some may do it to cover up plants of questionable legality. Several years ago I bought what was supposed to be Paph. Sugar Suite (niveum x emersonii, which was legal), but it bloomed out as Paph. Chou-Yi Yuki (niveum x hangianum, hangianum not being legal at that time).


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## emydura (Jan 9, 2016)

cattmad said:


> I sell a little bit on ebay here and I always supply the provenance when known, which is 99% of the time and to be honest I don't trust those who don't.
> 
> There again, I only buy directly from reputable sources such as orchid inn, TON or OZ



I can certainly vouch for your plants Brad. Top quality, beautifully grown and you know exactly what you are getting. Highly recommended.



Ozpaph said:


> That's because many come from Thailand and SEAsia with no name parents. I often inquire of eBay sellers and get vague feedback - that's either evasive or they dont know (poor records, unknown provenance, don't care...), but some do answer. Now whether they are true to label is another matter.
> As always "buyer beware".



I think you are right there Stephen.


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## cattmad (Jan 9, 2016)

Ozpaph said:


> That's because many come from Thailand and SEAsia with no name parents. I often inquire of eBay sellers and get vague feedback - that's either evasive or they dont know (poor records, unknown provenance, don't care...), but some do answer. Now whether they are true to label is another matter.
> As always "buyer beware".



This even truer now, because the U.S. dollar has gone up a lot of people have even stopped buying from Taiwan and are importing from Thailand now.


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## emydura (Jan 9, 2016)

cattmad said:


> This even truer now, because the U.S. dollar has gone up a lot of people have even stopped buying from Taiwan and are importing from Thailand now.



I'm not sure if it is just the people who are selling these flasks but the prices of Taiwanese flasks seems to have exploded in recent times. A flask that use to sell for around $100 now seems to be going for $300 or more. It is actually cheaper buying them from the US where you are generally getting better quality as well. It seems to be more than just the increase in the US dollar that is affecting prices from Taiwan.


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## JAB (Jan 10, 2016)

Paphluvr,
Kind of the feeling I got.


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