# PHRAGMIPEDIUM Problems .....



## NeoNJ (Mar 8, 2012)

Is it me, or are my Phrags just duds! I have a large collection, right now only 2 are in spike. The others are doing nothing. 

One of them has been losing new leaves. They turn brown, and are easily pulled out. What could cause this ?.....

I have a Phrag. Mary Bess that has not grown at all. Nothing. It has 2 growths and doesn't even grow new leaves....

Any Phrag growers out there that can offer me some insight ...?

Thanks.


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## Shiva (Mar 8, 2012)

Do you water them enough? Do you feed them enought? Is the pH of the media and water ok for these plants? Do they need repotting? Are the roots healthy? What about the light? Most phrags prefer light just a bit below cattleya light or even phalaenopsis light.

I had a small paph in my collection that did nothing for two years. I lowered the pH a bit and lo and behold, it started growing new leaves.

Then there is ventilation. There must be moving air around the plants. Check all of the above. The answer is probably there. Check also for humidity.


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## Rick (Mar 8, 2012)

How many and what kind of phrags?

I can't think of any in my collection that are presently just sitting there and not "doing anything". But they are not all blooming either.

In general phrags like it wetter than paphs, and many do great in some type of semi hydro system. However, I still have some in bark and some (long petaled species) in hanging baskets of moss/gravel.

Although they do well in low salt water, they appear to do worse if the only salt in the water is K from fertilizing. I used to use straight RO water, but have switched to a 10% well water/RO blend that has a hardness of around 20-40 mg/L CaCO3.

My phrags also like some decent light in the 1500 to 2500 fc range. So you may want to check light levels (at the leaves).


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## Erythrone (Mar 8, 2012)

Maybe a few pics would help?


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## NeoNJ (Mar 8, 2012)

Sorry - No Pics to offer you.

They all are in ceramic planters with 1-inch of water in each planter.
They are watered frequently - mostly with 1/2 Distilled Water.
Fertilizer? Very, Very infrequently - Phrags are not heavy feeders.
Many are sprouting new growths, but many are not.

Phrag. Mary Bess is doing nothing. I have a Phrag calurum slowly growing...
and I have 2 Phrag sedenii also growing very very slowly .... with no sign of spiking in the near future.

The only Phrags that have spiked for me quickly are my (2) Phrag Eric Young. The newest to spike is Phrag Franz Glanz.

Also my Phrag Mountain Maid and Phrag Carol Kanzer sit there with no signs of doing anything ......

Light levels? Morning Sun, with supplemental overhead lighting.


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## Rick (Mar 8, 2012)

NeoNJ said:


> Fertilizer? Very, Very infrequently - Phrags are not heavy feeders.
> Many are sprouting new growths, but many are not.
> 
> Light levels? Morning Sun, with supplemental overhead lighting.



You may be surprised how much nitrogen they can suck up when in active growth. Mine get fed weekly at 40-50 ppm nitrogen during winter and up around 100ppm weekly in summer. But K-lite has made a dramatic difference in quality of growth and survival of small plants.

Can you get a light meter. Light seems a bit sparse. Being in NJ your latitude would make for a shorter day length than down here in TN, but you're about the same as Tom Kalina over near Chicago, and probably not quite as far north as Carver over in England who both grow a ton of phrags.


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## bullsie (Mar 8, 2012)

The half distilled water. What is the quality of the other half? For a month, try all distilled water with a little epsom salts in it (1/8 - 1/4 tsp to a gallon of distilled water once a week). While my Phrags all did good with the well water, when I switched to spring water w epsom salts in it (for the Paphs) there was much nicer growth from the Phrags, particularly my boiserrianum (sorry spelling, I'm off to bed after this). 

Your light would be the same as mine - western PA - and depending on location the morning light reaching them could start at daybreak and end sometime after noon - and we have passed the point in February when the leaves could get burned - so a possibility they are getting enough light. But as pointed out, a meter would better tell you that.

I have put k-lite on my list though! Am anxious to try it on my Phrags.


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## NYEric (Mar 9, 2012)

This is the second time I'm posting this. For some reason, my posts seem to be disappearing. Is there some corruption on this forum? 
Check the media, if it is broken down try a non-organic media like aliflor (expanded clay beads). For the plant with leaves dying off treat like rot, remove moisture and move the plant to an area with more air flow. Apply cinnamon powder or something stronger like Captan. If the plants are alive and not declining but not growing try more water and up your fertilizer a little.


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## NeoNJ (Mar 9, 2012)

NYEric said:


> This is the second time I'm posting this. For some reason, my posts seem to be disappearing. Is there some corruption on this forum?
> Check the media, if it is broken down try a non-organic media like aliflor (expanded clay beads). For the plant with leaves dying off treat like rot, remove moisture and move the plant to an area with more air flow. Apply cinnamon powder or something stronger like Captan. If the plants are alive and not declining but not growing try more water and up your fertilizer a little.



Hi -
Thanks for the reply. I have tried aliflor and I can only tell you that all of the orchids I've grown in aliflor have died a horrible death. There is something about that medium that I just do not like at all, and neither do my plants.

I currently have a Phrag Eric Young in aliflor (it came that way) and the plant is suffering, or not thriving, let's put it that way. After it bloomed, 2 growths which were rather large and full died and had to be cut out of the plant. I also had a wonderful Paph. Lady Macbeth which I loved, which was also in aliflor and died after it bloomed.....

Like I said earlier, I rarely fertilize the Phrags and Paphs. I do have Dyna-Grow and Grow-More Orchid fertilizers available (as well as Epsom salts).
I mix half tap water with half Distilled water. The Epsom salts will "green up" the plants, but that is not my problem.


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## NeoNJ (Mar 9, 2012)

Rick said:


> You may be surprised how much nitrogen they can suck up when in active growth. Mine get fed weekly at 40-50 ppm nitrogen during winter and up around 100ppm weekly in summer. But K-lite has made a dramatic difference in quality of growth and survival of small plants.
> 
> Can you get a light meter. Light seems a bit sparse. Being in NJ your latitude would make for a shorter day length than down here in TN, but you're about the same as Tom Kalina over near Chicago, and probably not quite as far north as Carver over in England who both grow a ton of phrags.



Hi -

Thanks for the reply. My "Light" is not sparse at all. Quite the contrary.
I'm not growing Cattleya or Vanda. The Phrags get plenty of direct sunlight
and get above supplemental light on gray days.

I'll boost the Fertilizing a bit now and see what happens.


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## Kavanaru (Mar 9, 2012)

I would as well try with the pure distilled watr recipe for at least one month... increase light, as it also looks very low to me, and increase a bit the fertilizer rate... 

as for LECA, check how high in the pot is your water being pulled up by capillarity. this can make a huge difference! if your relative himidity is too low, the upper part of the LECA in the pot will be too dry for Phrags... at least this was a Problem I had in the past... solved by more frequent watering...


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## Kavanaru (Mar 9, 2012)

as for your comment regarding light... my JF started blooming only after I placed it next to the Cattleyas!


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## NeoNJ (Mar 9, 2012)

bullsie said:


> The half distilled water. What is the quality of the other half? For a month, try all distilled water with a little epsom salts in it (1/8 - 1/4 tsp to a gallon of distilled water once a week). While my Phrags all did good with the well water, when I switched to spring water w epsom salts in it (for the Paphs) there was much nicer growth from the Phrags, particularly my boiserrianum (sorry spelling, I'm off to bed after this).
> 
> Your light would be the same as mine - western PA - and depending on location the morning light reaching them could start at daybreak and end sometime after noon - and we have passed the point in February when the leaves could get burned - so a possibility they are getting enough light. But as pointed out, a meter would better tell you that.
> 
> I have put k-lite on my list though! Am anxious to try it on my Phrags.



Hi -
Thanks for the reply. What will Distilled water with Epsom salts do ?
Won't it really just "Green Up" the plants ???

I have 2 Light Meters - > 4000-4500fc of Light is what is indicated on both meters for the Phrag growing area.


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## Kavanaru (Mar 9, 2012)

NeoNJ said:


> I have 2 Light Meters - > 4000-4500fc of Light is what is indicated on both meters for the Phrag growing area.



for how many hours a day? that makes the difference.... even low intensities, for a longer period can help Cattleyas and Vandas bloom


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## NeoNJ (Mar 9, 2012)

Kavanaru said:


> I would as well try with the pure distilled watr recipe for at least one month... increase light, as it also looks very low to me, and increase a bit the fertilizer rate...
> 
> as for LECA, check how high in the pot is your water being pulled up by capillarity. this can make a huge difference! if your relative himidity is too low, the upper part of the LECA in the pot will be too dry for Phrags... at least this was a Problem I had in the past... solved by more frequent watering...



It was recommended to me in the past to use Distilled water, but to avoid pure 100% Distilled water because it will "BLEACH" out the plants, which it did .... so I mix it with 25% tap water. 

The current Light situation is 4000-4500fc of light as indicated on my 2 Light Meters. 

Currently, the Phrags are watered daily. I'll increase the fertilizing regiment.


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## keithrs (Mar 9, 2012)

I had zero luck with leca on a daily watering schedule... not humid enough. I repotted in to 50% medium bark and 50% moss and I have good results with that mix. I water about twice a week with 80 ppm N and had been using 125 ppm N with good results. 

If was you... I would unpot all of them.. Check the roots, repot in the same media and fertilize more.... Also find a fertilizer with Ca and Mg like K-Lite or MSU.


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## Lycaste53 (Mar 9, 2012)

Erythrone said:


> Maybe a few pics would help?



I don´t understand why there are no pics, if there is any problem with health, the doctor has to see the patient. To get a visulal impression of the phaeno- type of the problem. 
If there is a proplem, the patient has to be patient, but he has, too, to come out with the problem.
With pictures, it would be much easier to help your plants.


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## NeoNJ (Mar 9, 2012)

keithrs said:


> I had zero luck with leca on a daily watering schedule... not humid enough. I repotted in to 50% medium bark and 50% moss and I have good results with that mix. I water about twice a week with 80 ppm N and had been using 125 ppm N with good results.
> 
> If was you... I would unpot all of them.. Check the roots, repot in the same media and fertilize more.... Also find a fertilizer with Ca and Mg like K-Lite or MSU.



Thanks for the recommendations....Where do you find or buy K-Lite fertilizer?


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## Kavanaru (Mar 9, 2012)

interesting to see how different results people have with LECA... in my experience, when growing indoord under light (low humidity) my plants loved it, as long as I was watering often... when moved my plants to the greenhouse (high humidity) I started having problems... tried reduing watering, increasing ventilation, changing water, etc... and at the end had to change all my plants to regular subtrate... only some Brachypetalum hybrids seems to love it in the GH...


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## keithrs (Mar 9, 2012)

Kavanaru said:


> interesting to see how different results people have with LECA... in my experience, when growing indoord under light (low humidity) my plants loved it, as long as I was watering often... when moved my plants to the greenhouse (high humidity) I started having problems... tried reduing watering, increasing ventilation, changing water, etc... and at the end had to change all my plants to regular subtrate... only some Brachypetalum hybrids seems to love it in the GH...



My humidity here in so cal is 30% tops and often v10% in the spring thru fall. The humidity being that low would allow the pot to evap. very quickly.... I even tried Ray "special" LECA for semi hydro in 1" of water. No luck....


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## keithrs (Mar 9, 2012)

NeoNJ said:


> Thanks for the recommendations....Where do you find or buy K-Lite fertilizer?



Ray is the only one who sells it. 

K-Lite


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## NeoNJ (Mar 9, 2012)

Lycaste53 said:


> I don´t understand why there are no pics, if there is any problem with health, the doctor has to see the patient. To get a visulal impression of the phaeno- type of the problem.
> If there is a proplem, the patient has to be patient, but he has, too, to come out with the problem.
> With pictures, it would be much easier to help your plants.



A picture of what ? a Green plant growing in a pot ......
The plants don't have any type of disease, or fungus, or bacterial, or root rot or anything ..........

I don't own a camera, and hence, can't take photo's of the Orchids.


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## NeoNJ (Mar 9, 2012)

keithrs said:


> Ray is the only one who sells it.
> 
> K-Lite




Thanks for the reply. I just ordered MSU fertilizer. I hope that will help the Phrags.


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## keithrs (Mar 9, 2012)

Good luck! 

I saw a huge difference going from Growmore 20-10-20 to MSU....


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## Rick (Mar 9, 2012)

NeoNJ said:


> Thanks for the reply. I just ordered MSU fertilizer. I hope that will help the Phrags.



I did a work around to get the K reduced in standard MSU which made a big difference for my phrags. If you search through the old threads on K-lite you will see what I was getting at.

In general orchids can't handle the relative high amounts of K in standard "balanced" fertilizers. It blocks the uptake of Ca/Mg.

So in cases where the plant and potting mix is saturated with K it helps to use a bit extra Mg to "purge" some of the extra K out of the plant and potting mix.

Same for adding a bit of well or tap water into RO water. The extra Ca/Mg helps build up the plant and purge K out of the potting mix.

Long term plants should get more Ca than Mg, so I wouldn't reccomend long term or regular use of Epsom in RO or distilled water without making sure there's some calcium around somewhere. Slipperking got a rash of crippled flowers in longifolum types after extended boosting of Mg in his irrigation rain water.


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## Rick (Mar 9, 2012)

NeoNJ said:


> Thanks for the recommendations....Where do you find or buy K-Lite fertilizer?



So far we are just in trial mode and I don't believe there is any left to buy.

There is a way to get close with standard MSU/Calcium nitrate/epsom salt


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## NYEric (Mar 9, 2012)

NeoNJ said:


> Hi -
> Thanks for the reply. I have tried aliflor and I can only tell you that all of the orchids I've grown in aliflor have died a horrible death. There is something about that medium that I just do not like at all, and neither do my plants.


I find I had problems growing S/H with aliflor until I really stepped up the amount and number of times I add water daily. If it doesn't work for you, still treat the sick plants and have patience with the rest. BTW you can make your own K-lite.


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## Erythrone (Mar 9, 2012)

NeoNJ said:


> A picture of what ? a Green plant growing in a pot ......
> The plants don't have any type of disease, or fungus, or bacterial, or root rot or anything ..........
> .



You were talking about a plant loosing its newer leaves too


oke:


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## NeoNJ (Mar 9, 2012)

Rick said:


> I did a work around to get the K reduced in standard MSU which made a big difference for my phrags. If you search through the old threads on K-lite you will see what I was getting at.
> 
> In general orchids can't handle the relative high amounts of K in standard "balanced" fertilizers. It blocks the uptake of Ca/Mg.
> 
> ...



I had/have been using Dyna-Gro. Sounds to me like I should continue.....
since all the micro-nutrients are there including the extra Ca/Mg, without the extra K........

I'm not so sure the MSU fertilizer will provide what you're referring to ....


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## keithrs (Mar 9, 2012)

You have to remember that Dyna is in concentrate form and MSU is in powder form. 

MSU will have more Ca and Mg in the end... 

Ether way you go you'll be fine.


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## NeoNJ (Mar 10, 2012)

keithrs said:


> You have to remember that Dyna is in concentrate form and MSU is in powder form.
> 
> MSU will have more Ca and Mg in the end...
> 
> Ether way you go you'll be fine.



The MSU I purchased is liquid form.


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## SlipperFan (Mar 10, 2012)

NeoNJ said:


> The MSU I purchased is liquid form.



That just means the distributor dissolved it from the powder form. The important thing is, which formula do you have: the rain/RO/distilled formula, or the well/tap water formula? The "MSU" fertilizer is sold both ways.

You can download the formulas from the bottom of this page:
http://los.lon.imag.net/MiscFile.asp


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## Clark (Mar 10, 2012)

Our living space is a vile enviroment for orchids.
Day/nite temps. are the same.
Humidity during winter, as low as 16%.
Not enough rain water to flush the pots out.
Can't wait to open the windows and get some fresh air inside,
or get the 'chids outside.

Sometimes, I think growing and blooming, are two different beasts.


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## quaker (Mar 10, 2012)

I have quite a few phrags and 20 or so of them are watered 24Hours per day with tap water and fed twice per year on blood and bone food as used for garden plants--- and they grow like cabbages. The tap water is very soft and slightly acidic. My other phrags ( divisions ) are all grown in NZ sphagnum and at the moment are fed just a small amount per watering of nitrogen. I know not everyone will agree with my methods but they seem to work for me. the phrags on 24hour waterings take time to adjust to their new conditions when the old roots die off and new roots start to appear after a month or two. The divisions are all taken from these plants and watered every other day.

Ed


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## NeoNJ (Mar 10, 2012)

SlipperFan said:


> That just means the distributor dissolved it from the powder form. The important thing is, which formula do you have: the rain/RO/distilled formula, or the well/tap water formula? The "MSU" fertilizer is sold both ways.
> 
> You can download the formulas from the bottom of this page:
> http://los.lon.imag.net/MiscFile.asp



The formula I purchased arrived today ---- it is the Well/Tap Water formula.


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## keithrs (Mar 10, 2012)

NeoNJ said:


> The formula I purchased arrived today ---- it is the Well/Tap Water formula.



Just to let you know that the well version has no Ca or Mg.


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## NeoNJ (Mar 10, 2012)

I think I'm gonna continue to use Dyna-Gro and forget the MSU !


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## NeoNJ (Mar 10, 2012)

keithrs said:


> Just to let you know that the well version has no Ca or Mg.



Actually, that is not correct.

I just went to the website of REPOT ME where I purchased the product
and the Well/Tap water product ingredient list states:

macronutrients: 

Calcium - 8%
Magnesium - 2.6%


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## keithrs (Mar 10, 2012)

oops....


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## SlipperFan (Mar 10, 2012)

keithrs said:


> Just to let you know that the well version has no Ca or Mg.



Not true. It has 2% Ca -- because most ground water already has quite a bit of Ca in it.


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## SlipperFan (Mar 10, 2012)

NeoNJ said:


> Actually, that is not correct.
> 
> I just went to the website of REPOT ME where I purchased the product
> and the Well/Tap water product ingredient list states:
> ...



That would be the rain water formula.

Again: http://los.lon.imag.net/MiscFile.asp -- these sheets are accurate. Watch out for vendors who aren't selling the right product with the right label.


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## NeoNJ (Mar 10, 2012)

SlipperFan said:


> That would be the rain water formula.
> 
> Again: http://los.lon.imag.net/MiscFile.asp -- these sheets are accurate. Watch out for vendors who aren't selling the right product with the right label.



EXCUSEEEEEEEEEEEE ME ...!

Yes, RO/Rain/Tap Water formula !

Geeeeeez!


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## SlipperFan (Mar 10, 2012)

I'm just trying to keep things straight. I've seen vendors at shows selling the well water formula and saying it's for any kind of water. I was very close to the creation of the rain water formula, and it bothers me to see the confusion wrong information causes.


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## keithrs (Mar 10, 2012)

SlipperFan said:


> Not true. It has 2% Ca -- because most ground water already has quite a bit of Ca in it.



Off Rays website..... There more than one company that makes "MSU"

Orchid Fertilizer "Well Water" Formula
(MSU formulation)

Nitrogen (Nitrate 13.6%)
(Ammoniacal 5.7%)	19.00%
Phosphorus	(as P2O5) 4.00%
Potassium	(as K2O) 23.00%
Iron 0.16%
Manganese 0.08%
Sulfur 0.08%
Zinc 0.08%
Copper 0.08%
Boron 0.02%
Molybdenum 0.02%

Components: ammonium nitrate, ammonium phosphate, boric acid, copper sulfate, iron EDTA, manganese sulfate, potassium nitrate, potassium phosphate, sodium molybdate, zinc sulfate.


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## SlipperFan (Mar 11, 2012)

keithrs said:


> Off Rays website..... There more than one company that makes "MSU" …



There is only one company that makes "MSU" -- that is GreenCare. There are many vendors who sell "MSU" -- or variations of those two formulas.

Directly from the labels:

*GreenCare
19-4-23
Orchid Well Water Special*

Guaranteed Analysis
Total Nitrogen……………………………….….19%
13.6% Nitrate Nitrogen
5.7% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O5)…………………..….4%
Potash (K2O)……………………………………23%
Calcium…………………………………..…….2.0%
Magnesium………………………………..……0.0%
Iron (Fe)……………………………………...0.160%
Manganese (Mn)…………………………..…0.080%
Zinc (Zn)…………………………………..…0.080%
Copper (Cu)……………………………….…0.080%
Boron (B)………………………………….…0.016%
Molybdenum (Mo)…………………………..0.016%

Derived from : Ammonium nitrate, ammonium phosphate, boric acid, copper sulfate, iron EDTA, manganese sulfate, potassium nitrate, sodium molybdate, and zinc sulfate

Potential Acidity: 140 lbs. Calcium carbonate equivalent per ton.

*GreenCare*
*13-3-15
Orchid RO Water Special*
Water Soluble Fertilizer
For Continuous Liquid Feeding Programs

Guaranteed Analysis
Total Nitrogen……………………………….….13%
12.5% Nitrate Nitrogen
0.7% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O3)…………………..….3%
Potash (K2O)……………………………………15%
Calcium…………………………………..…….8.0%
Magnesium………………………………..……2.0%
Iron (Fe)……………………………………...0.177%
Manganese (Mn)…………………………..…0.088%
Zinc (Zn)…………………………………..…0.041%
Copper (Cu)……………………………….…0.044%
Boron (B)………………………………….…0.018%
Molybdenum (Mo)…………………………..0.018%

Derived from : boric acid, copper sulfate, iron EDTA, manganese sulfate, potassium phosphate, potassium nitrate, sodium molybdate, and zinc sulfate

Potential Basicity: 420 lbs. calcium carbonate equivalent per ton.
___________________________

*If you are finding formulas other than the above, they may be derived from the MSU formulas, but they are not the true MSU (Michigan State University) formulas.*

C'mon guys -- I know the history, was there when the rain water formula was created, and know the person who worked with the professor who came up with the original well water formula. It was formulated for the ground water at Michigan State University, specifically for their orchid collection. The rain water formula was requested by Bill Porter (Porter's Orchids) -- when he had an intern from MSU who told him about their fertilizer, he asked the prof. to formulate plant food to be used with rain water, because that's the water he uses. Thus, there are two "MSU" formulas, one for well/tap water and the other for rain/distilled/RO water.


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## NeoNJ (Mar 11, 2012)

keithrs said:


> Off Rays website..... There more than one company that makes "MSU"
> 
> Orchid Fertilizer "Well Water" Formula
> (MSU formulation)
> ...



Oh? who are the companies that make this formula ?
I really figured it would come in a bottle labeled "MSU fertilizer".
I got a bottle labeled "FEED ME".
Duh !


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## keithrs (Mar 11, 2012)

SlipperFan said:


> There is only one company that makes "MSU" -- that is GreenCare. There are many vendors who sell "MSU" -- or variations of those two formulas.



Sorry Boss..... Won't happen again!!! :wink:


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## keithrs (Mar 11, 2012)

NeoNJ said:


> Oh? who are the companies that make this formula ?
> I really figured it would come in a bottle labeled "MSU fertilizer".
> I got a bottle labeled "FEED ME".
> Duh !



Well... I better shut my mouth before I dig too deep of a hole...LOL


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## NeoNJ (Mar 11, 2012)

Well, they all appear to have way to high a ratio of Nitrogen ...........
I think I'll stick with Dyna-Gro Bloom.


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## Rick (Mar 12, 2012)

MSU is not a proprietary formula as is K-lite. 

MSU is a "recipe" of salts to make a specific combination of NPK..... It's the same as Betty Crockers recipe for making pineapple upside down cake you can get out of a cook book.

The raw ingredients like calcium nitrate, mono potasium phosphate, mag sulfate,...... are all raw chemical salts available to anyone willing to put in the time and effort to pick them up from their respective industrial sources. Same as you can go to any grocery store to get flour, sugar, butter, pineapple.. for your cake recipes (they are not proprietary ingredients).

Subsequently Roberts flower supply can sell MSU that can be slightly different and not assembled by Greencare.


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## NeoNJ (Mar 12, 2012)

Rick said:


> MSU is not a proprietary formula as is K-lite.
> 
> MSU is a "recipe" of salts to make a specific combination of NPK..... It's the same as Betty Crockers recipe for making pineapple upside down cake you can get out of a cook book.
> 
> ...



Ok, makes sense to me. I just got a "recipe" from one of the many vendors who sells the "formula". Got it...

But whats with so many "formula" having such High Nitrogen content...?


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## SlipperFan (Mar 12, 2012)

Rick said:


> MSU is not a proprietary formula as is K-lite.
> 
> MSU is a "recipe" of salts to make a specific combination of NPK..... It's the same as Betty Crockers recipe for making pineapple upside down cake you can get out of a cook book.
> 
> ...



Then it is not truly the MSU formula and should not be sold at such. That is deceptive. 

MSU does not "own" this recipe -- they developed it. Greencare will make up any recipe you wish, but I'll bet they won't call it the MSU formula unless it is.


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## bullsie (Mar 13, 2012)

NeoNJ, if you do anything with your plants, try one thing at a time and see how they do. As you take a few weeks for each change, you will see and be able to develop the kind of culture that they're needing. It will just take a little time and some 'experimentation'. The fact that you have two blooming means you have met their needs. But may need to tweek to get the remainder to follow suite.


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## Rick (Mar 13, 2012)

NeoNJ said:


> Ok, makes sense to me. I just got a "recipe" from one of the many vendors who sells the "formula". Got it...
> 
> But whats with so many "formula" having such High Nitrogen content...?



Plants really do utilize more nitrogen than other nutrients.

But in general slow growing tropical perennial species need a lot less of everything. You can cut down the rate of use of any fertilizer to get down to a comfortable level of N.


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## cnycharles (Mar 13, 2012)

traditionally my phrag species and hybrids did very lacklusterly (I know not a real word but fits their growth with me) until I increased the humidity and the water. I put them into a dutch leach tray and they had bottom water every morning for 15 minutes, and I also watered them periodically from the top. before, they weren't very happy. my ecua-bess hybrid actually stopped sulking and dying and has a bud


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## NeoNJ (Mar 13, 2012)

cnycharles said:


> traditionally my phrag species and hybrids did very lacklusterly (I know not a real word but fits their growth with me) until I increased the humidity and the water. I put them into a dutch leach tray and they had bottom water every morning for 15 minutes, and I also watered them periodically from the top. before, they weren't very happy. my ecua-bess hybrid actually stopped sulking and dying and has a bud



All of my Phrags are in ceramic containers with at least a minimum of 1-inch of water at all times. So they have bottom water all the time. Some are growing like mad, but few are spiking and/or blooming. Right now I have a Franz Glanz in bloom, and a Eric Young in spike, but that's about it.


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## cnycharles (Mar 13, 2012)

I think if many are growing a lot, then it's only a matter of time until they flower. 

If when you add epsom salts, your plants 'green up', (and you are wondering if there is really any benefit to this 'greening up') then this could be the sign that they aren't getting enough nutrition or the right balance. If they didn't do anything when you added epsom salts then it likely would be a sign that they already had everything they needed. 

Having the bottom water is good, and likely why they are growing well. Moving water for phrags really helps, and pouring through the top really helps. Just water alone might not be the best, as having higher humidity might be a very helpful factor. I know in summer your humidity in nj will be higher than here in upstate ny (usually), but this time of year both here and there, our unaltered humidity would be the same, fairly low if you have electric or other un-moisturized heat. These plants would respond even more favorably if they had higher humidity in the winter

You ask why a picture might be necessary, because you describe what you are seeing. But, for a good experienced plant grower, much can be seen about a plant just by looking at it, or a picture of it. Someone who grows phrags could see something that your eye isn't trained to see, or doesn't know what they are seeing. .. green is green, except when it's yellow-green, or green with red tint etc (smile) or wilted green with brown leaf tips. Every nuance can provide details, that words don't really express. I say this for your benefit, because you asked why a picture would be necessary, but on my part not expecting photographs because you pointed out that you don't have a camera. 

hopefully your plants will be flowering soon! .. and if they do flower, maybe borrow a phone camera from a friend


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## Rick (Mar 13, 2012)

NeoNJ said:


> All of my Phrags are in ceramic containers with at least a minimum of 1-inch of water at all times. So they have bottom water all the time. Some are growing like mad, but few are spiking and/or blooming. Right now I have a Franz Glanz in bloom, and a Eric Young in spike, but that's about it.



At the beggining of this thread it sounded like plague and destruction. Now it sounds like growth is fine and just a lack of blooming.

If growth is fine but no blooming, then just give them time (like Charles said). I've had multigrowth pots of some species wait two years before blooming with plenty of new growth during the interval.


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## NeoNJ (Mar 13, 2012)

Well, not to cause a problem here, but as I indicated it truly is "plague and destruction" for SOME of the Phrags I own. Not all of them, but SOME of them. Time ? How much time ? How many growing seasons or months (since Phrags really don't have a dormant period and are always growing).
Hmmmm....Ok. Time. For Phrags (and Paphs) my understanding was that once a new growth matured, that growth should flower.


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## Clark (Mar 14, 2012)

Duke Farms use to have tours of the non public areas. 
While within the public conservatory, all plants were in bloom. But in the back, there were thousands of plants, not in bloom. Most were blooming size.
The room I remember the most, held all the Phrag. Grandes. Monster size plants. All were similar in size. Less than 20% were blooming.
Might be worth a visit.


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