Mosses, weeds and ferns... Bad or good?

Brabantia · May 6, 2013

I cultivate Phragmipediums on a substrate made of equal parts clay balls and rockwool cubes.I add to the fertilyser solution (Rain mix) 0.2 ml/1L (1/6 tsp/1gal) of seaweed extract. pH of this solution is adjusted at 6 with tap water. Mosses, weeds and even small ferns grow on the upper surface of the potting. It is very attractive but is this good or bad for the culture or for the health of the plant?

gonewild · May 6, 2013

Brabantia said:
I cultivate Phragmipediums on a substrate made of equal parts clay balls and rockwool cubes.I add to the fertilyser solution (Rain mix) 0.2 ml/1L (1/6 tsp/1gal) of seaweed extract. pH of this solution is adjusted at 6 with tap water. Mosses, weeds and even small ferns grow on the upper surface of the potting. It is very attractive but is this good or bad for the culture or for the health of the plant?

By definition "weeds" are bad.

oke: so you don't want the weeds.
Mosses and ferns indicate an environment that Phrags like.

Stone · May 6, 2013

Definately get rid of them. They will reduce air induction into the medium, leading to stale conditions in the pot and fast media break down. Throw out the top few cm of mix and top up with fresh.

gonewild · May 6, 2013

Stone said:
Definately get rid of them. They will reduce air induction into the medium, leading to stale conditions in the pot and fast media break down. Throw out the top few cm of mix and top up with fresh.

Brabantia's media consists of only clay balls and rock wool, so there is no media breakdown problem.
Personally I think the moss and ferns will give Phrags a better root environment by adding a little natural organic matter.

ehanes7612 · May 6, 2013

seems my phrags do really well in media that has ferns and moss in them

Rick · May 6, 2013

I also agree that the mosses in particular are great indicators of good pot conditions. Sometimes I think the ferns can get out of hand, and end up periodically ripping them out. In my GH they seem to take off in baskets more so than pots, and sometimes get so thick that it seems like the roots are "strangling" the orchid roots. But usually I let them be if they stay small or are unusual species (no telling what pops up from sphagnum moss sometimes).

"weeds" especially clover is a pain, and doesn't even look good.

One thing that may be an extra bonus with mosses, is that they often form relationships with BG algae that are nitrogen fixers. So there may be at least one worthwhile chemical association with mosses in the pot .

mrhappyrotter · May 6, 2013

I leave the mosses because I think they are attractive and I've not seen any evidence that they cause any harm (I grow in a similar mix of mostly rockwool).

I pull the ferns when they get too big. The concern being that they grow faster than the phrags, can crowd them out, and out compete them for nutrients.

I also pull the other stuff that pops up, like oxalis, because I don't like the way it looks and general concern that if the oxalis dies, the dying, rotting roots might cause issues for the phrag roots/mix.

gonewild · May 6, 2013

mrhappyrotter said:
I also pull the other stuff that pops up, like oxalis, because I don't like the way it looks and general concern that if the oxalis dies, the dying, rotting roots might cause issues for the phrag roots/mix.

Never let oxalis grow. It is a bad host for pests, especially spider mites and white flies.

SlipperFan · May 6, 2013

Moss like. Weeds and ferns, not so much!!!

SlipperKing · May 6, 2013

I'm for the co-existences with the mosses and ferns too. All the plants out of Hawaii come with mosses in the pot and these are the best grown plants by far of any vendors I buy from. AND every in-situ PIC I've seen of Paphs and Phrags I see mosses and ferns!

lepetitmartien · May 7, 2013

Mosses are fine as long as air passes thru.

On ferns, I think a little lecture of Sue Bottom with pics may enlighten you.
http://www.staugorchidsociety.org/PDF/FernsandOrchidsDoNotMixbySueBottom.pdf

There's something called competition…

Brabantia · May 7, 2013

lepetitmartien said:
Mosses are fine as long as air passes thru.

On ferns, I think a little lecture of Sue Bottom with pics may enlighten you.
http://www.staugorchidsociety.org/PDF/FernsandOrchidsDoNotMixbySueBottom.pdf

There's something called competition…

Thank you for the reference but fortunately I am far from this situation.

paphioboy · May 7, 2013

No problem with mosses and ferns. I let them grow as they like

On ferns, I think a little lecture of Sue Bottom with pics may enlighten you.
http://www.staugorchidsociety.org/PD...ySueBottom.pdf

Just read the above article. IMHO, there is no point splitting the established dendrobium root ball. Plus, that fern looks like a rabbits foot (Davallia) whose roots I use as media for paphs and bulbos..! There is no concern that orchid roots cannot 'breathe' if drainage is good and media is not soggy. If I were in the author's shoes, I'd just unpot it and place the whole root mass into an empty basket. The plant looks like it is perfectly healthy and there is even a nice new growth..

limuhead · May 7, 2013

I pull the weeds and ferns. Fern roots can strangle orchid roots and compete for air and nutrients(as well as weeds). If I see a plant I am selling with a few ferns I usually charge extra for the 'companion plant'. :rollhappy:

gonewild · May 7, 2013

limuhead said:
Fern roots can strangle orchid roots

Can you explain how fern roots "strangle" orchid roots?
This has been mentioned several times.
I'm not disagreeing, I just would like to understand how orchid roots are strangled and how you know fern roots do it.

NYEric · May 7, 2013

Weeds = nasty, ferns = Not so nasty, Moss = nice.

PaphMadMan · May 7, 2013

No one has commented on the liverwort in the first picture. It appears to be Marchantia polymorpha, which is recognized as a serious greenhouse weed in some cases, and very hard to control. The kind of thing that might not be any harm to a mature plant, but if it got into a compot could completely overgrow the seedlings in a matter of weeks if it wasn't noticed. Other liverworts are not likely to be as serious a problem. Personally, I love the way ferns, mosses and liverworts look growing among the orchids, and I doubt they do much harm in most cases. But you do have to consider if this is something you want to let spread in your environment if it could be a problem in the wrong place.

Stone · May 7, 2013

Leave a layer of moss on top of the pot and sooner or later the roots will die.
Ferns are ok for a little while but there roots will eventually smother the orchids roots. If you have the conditions in which mosses and ferns grow, thats enough. You don't want then in the pots! You don't want a condition in which the only air entering the pots is through the drainage holes. They may look good but they serve no useful purpose at all except maybe if an orchid is in too large a pot, a fern growing with it may keep the mix in a better condition until the orchid catches up. But orchids should't generally be overpotted anyway.

This kind of ties in with my potting mix ''growing'' method. Becuase I have lots of room I'm growing my own paph mix by planting fast growing ferns into large pots of treated coco/bark/treefern mix. within about one year, the pot is totally root bound in fern roots almost every particle of chc is penetrated with the fern roots. Then its just a of matter taking to it with an axe, washing out all the fines and humus etc and planting your paph! I've tried it on a small scale with good results. It seems all the negative problems with raw CHC are gone by then. Now I have about 60 ferns going. I'll post some pics at some point.

ALToronto · May 7, 2013

What about mosses, ferns and other 'companion plants' on mounts? Do they do any harm?

Brabantia · May 9, 2013

Thank you all for your comments. I learned what is exactly lieverwort.
I removed some mousses out of the surface potting (not all) of some plants and replaced with a fresh mix. I agree that air circulation in the potting is very important. It is the reason why I cultivate none of my Phragmi. with the pot soaking into a saucer with a water level. I have no Phrag. bessae (which is best to cultivate in a saucer) if I have one I would drill holes on the side wall of the pot.

Mosses, weeds and ferns... Bad or good?

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