I’m really excited about this eldorado that’s opening now. It has 5 flares on all parts!
Hopefully it will stretch fuller in a few days.
NS 14 cm now.
Hopefully it will stretch fuller in a few days.
NS 14 cm now.
Cattleya eldorado (syn: wallisii) pentaflamea ‘Kastaliya’
- Thread starter DrLeslieEe
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….and another stunning clone from Leslie…..wonderful!
very pretty and looks to be growing very well.
Lovely flowers, Leslie .... this time with good visible flares .... and the plant seems to be compact in size. 
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Looks like a good window sill grower. Suggestion for a good US vendor?
Lovely indeed! It must be a sight to see in-person.
Oh, ah, ih, ah, oh, ih, ah.....ad nauseam! 
Difficult to find and I recently killed the little seedling wallisii I had finally found.
I think wallisii is joining rex and lawrenceana as difficult to find and grow species that I am giving up on. I am still working on a near blooming size dowiana but I suspect I will fail. Wish I had my current knowledge of Cattleya culture 10 years ago, but time to accept my limitations.
I think wallisii is joining rex and lawrenceana as difficult to find and grow species that I am giving up on. I am still working on a near blooming size dowiana but I suspect I will fail. Wish I had my current knowledge of Cattleya culture 10 years ago, but time to accept my limitations.
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Pentaflameas are not available from US growers. They are rare and expensive.
However you can get tipos, albas and concolor eldorado divisions/seedlings from Chadwick, Orchid Eros and many overseas vendors like AWZ, Bela Vista and Hanajima. Sometimes the semialba flameas may be offered around 1-2K (up to 3K) for 3 bulbs division.
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Terry, keep trying because 10 years from now, you will reach your zen with them.
Took me 33 years to get here with those species (dowiana is still my Achilles though).
This eldorado is growing well, but I feel that every clone (eldorado) has it's own ability to grow or perish so best to have different clones from different sources. For dowiana I have a theory, a plant I received last year suddenly went down hill and perished, in a matter of two weeks. So my theory is , I bought a flask of approx. 20 plants (dowiana) last year, and after a year am now at 19. The thought is that plants from flask have no history and being raised in an environment, grow in that particular environment, and the ones (hopefully there will be some) that thrive in your particular conditions give you the best chance to get plants to blooming size. Hmm, at 73, I am still not hesitating to deflask.
Good observation and learning curve with some difficult species.
This method is called ‘survival of the fittest’ lol. Survive to fit MY environment or die.
Unfortunately the plant got passed at judging but there’s always next blooming cycle 
. Two new growths are at the base 
.
I took some natural light pics at the judging venue on the past Saturday:
Perhaps I should cross with eldorado s/a flamea ‘Golden Trumpet’ AM/AOS. Both pentaflameas! What say you?
Btw final size NS 15.5 cm.
. Two new growths are at the base .I took some natural light pics at the judging venue on the past Saturday:
Perhaps I should cross with eldorado s/a flamea ‘Golden Trumpet’ AM/AOS. Both pentaflameas! What say you?
Btw final size NS 15.5 cm.
Leslie, can you be a little unbiased and speculate about the things that reduced the desirability of your plant/flowers? I don’t know wallisii well enough to have any opinion.
Terry, this will be a slightly long explanation, so bear with me.
There’s a difference between desirability of collectors and the expectations of judges.
Eldorados in any form is highly desired. All color forms are in demand. In fact, whenever there’s an eldorado division or seedlings offered on eBay or show vendors, they are usually snatched up. They are that rare (besides the often mericloned ‘Mt Ito’ which is not really a true eldorado, but close enough). The most rare color form that is desired is usually the flamea forms. Semialba flameas are more available than tipo flameas. As such, this tipo pentaflamea is rarest of the species.
In judging, there’s a misconception on the shape of the eldorados. Because a few were awarded that were fuller petals and/or perceived flatter shape, the expectation for one’s like that were normalized. This of course is wrong because most eldorados had open form and recurved on some parts esp the sepals. In the case of this pentaflamea, it was passed because the petals were not as full and the sepals recurved a bit. Also, the crimping of the petal of the second flower made the judges think of a genetic flaw (which of course isn’t a genetic aberration, otherwise the first flower would show it).
Hope I explained it well?
There’s a difference between desirability of collectors and the expectations of judges.
Eldorados in any form is highly desired. All color forms are in demand. In fact, whenever there’s an eldorado division or seedlings offered on eBay or show vendors, they are usually snatched up. They are that rare (besides the often mericloned ‘Mt Ito’ which is not really a true eldorado, but close enough). The most rare color form that is desired is usually the flamea forms. Semialba flameas are more available than tipo flameas. As such, this tipo pentaflamea is rarest of the species.
In judging, there’s a misconception on the shape of the eldorados. Because a few were awarded that were fuller petals and/or perceived flatter shape, the expectation for one’s like that were normalized. This of course is wrong because most eldorados had open form and recurved on some parts esp the sepals. In the case of this pentaflamea, it was passed because the petals were not as full and the sepals recurved a bit. Also, the crimping of the petal of the second flower made the judges think of a genetic flaw (which of course isn’t a genetic aberration, otherwise the first flower would show it).
Hope I explained it well?
Frustrating how arbitrary judging can be. I understand when there is a clear standard of excellent plants of a type that all share certain characteristics, however as you describe there can be exceptions and to be arbitrarily passed over on such a rare plant…
I think it was the judging team’s first ever look at this color variant and had no experience with much eldorados. Most on the team have probably seen one or two in their lifetime (the ones I brought).
The most senior judge there may have seen more (around ten or more).
So this affair can be chalk up to inexperience on this species.
It’s ok with me. I understand their logical discussion and how it led to this. All part of the collective learning process.
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What about flower count? I see two awards to eldorado in Orchidpro, one from 1965 with no data or description recorded but the more recent one was from 2009 with four 15.5 cm flowers. Granted I'm not a judge or a Cattleya guy but that seems like the sort of plant the judges in my center would screen and say to bring back in a few years when it grows up.
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The most recent award last year had 2 flowers of 15.4 cm with AM 83.
In the wild they will have 2-5 flowers, with the ones with more flowers at 12 cm range.
I’ll try to attached my IG post of the eldorado I saw in the Amazon last December:
Here are some eldorados in Brazil to show the range:
The last one of the last post is an eldorado imposter lol.
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paphlove
Well-Known Member
Lovely flower!
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