Cymbidium goeringii "Mangetsu" 日本春蘭「満月」-plucking flower buds.

[jokerpass]

This C. goeringii variety is very floriforous, produced 8 flowers April 2021 and 3 flowers April 2020. This year, produced 4 flower buds. To save energy, as recommended by my Japanese Cymbidium vendor, I decided to pluck all 4 flower buds, so there will be more new vigorous new growths next year. Last picture is the flower picture. Because I decided not to flower them this season, I did not shade the buds, so the buds are green (supposed to be white when you shade the buds) and the flower sheath has a tough texture (flower sheath has a soft texture when you shade). It is still a bit early but almost all C. goeringii in the collection has buds again this year, The coloured varieites I decided to keep the buds are shaded since mid August.

 

[abax]

Do you grow ensifoliums as well as goeringi?

 

[jokerpass]

I only grow Cymbidium goeringii because it is probably the most challenging to grow and bloom. I only grow C. goeringii because it is the smallest (size wise). Also, C. goeringii appears to be the most mysterious one to the Western world. My Taiwanese East Asian Cymbidium vendor told me that if you follow C. goeringii culture and can grow and bloom successfully, you will be able to grow and bloom any east asian cymbidiums you want. To grow other East Asian Cymbidiums including C. ensifolium, C. sinense, C. kanran, and C. faberii, the general cultural points (potting mix, light, temp (except winter), watering schedule and techniques, and humidity) are the same. The only major difference between C. goeringii and C. ensfolium is the temperature requirement. C. ensifolium requires high intermediate to low warm temp range in spring and fall (20C-25C), warm to hot temp range in the summer (25C-30C), and in the winter time intermediate range (15C-20C). Everything else (watering technique, potting mix, lighting, and humidity) are all the same. It is the easiest East Asian Cymbidiums to grow and bloom. I bloomed C. ensifolium many many years ago when I was a beginner orchid grower like more than 15 years old. Without knowing the proper techniques and conditions, I bloomed it every year. I got rid of it one year at the local orchid show because it was way too big (10 inch pot).

 

[Happypaphy7]

It is indeed the different temperature ranges requirement that separate these Cymbidiums although they can all be grown the same way provided that the winter minimum temperature is well above the freezing point as ensifolium and sinense are nowhere as winter hardy as Cymbidium goeringii which is the hardiest of these, which makes them easiest one to deal with depending on what climate a grower lives in.
But you are into cool varieties that take fine tuning for proper flower development, so that is the challenge.

Both Cymbidium goeringii and Karan are native species in my country of South Korea. Karan only occurs in the subtropic island of Jeju while goeringii occurs in this island and way up north to about middle of the country where the January average temp is 0-2C. Jeju is significanly warmer than this.
Even in Japan, Karan occurs in Shikoku, Kyushu and way down south in Okinawa. There is a colony found in Honshu but along the coastal line and a lot further down from Tokyo Yokohama area. So, I would expect much milder climate than what people would consider typical of Honshu.

 

[Linus_Cello]

Is there a hybrid of C. goeringii x Karan?

 

[jokerpass]

Is there a hybrid of C. goeringii x Karan?

Yes there is.

 

[jokerpass]

It is indeed the different temperature ranges requirement that separate these Cymbidiums although they can all be grown the same way provided that the winter minimum temperature is well above the freezing point as ensifolium and sinense are nowhere as winter hardy as Cymbidium goeringii which is the hardiest of these, which makes them easiest one to deal with depending on what climate a grower lives in.
But you are into cool varieties that take fine tuning for proper flower development, so that is the challenge.

Both Cymbidium goeringii and Karan are native species in my country of South Korea. Karan only occurs in the subtropic island of Jeju while goeringii occurs in this island and way up north to about middle of the country where the January average temp is 0-2C. Jeju is significanly warmer than this.
Even in Japan, Karan occurs in Shikoku, Kyushu and way down south in Okinawa. There is a colony found in Honshu but along the coastal line and a lot further down from Tokyo Yokohama area. So, I would expect much milder climate than what people would consider typical of Honshu.

Yes, Cymbidium goeringii and Cymbidium kanran are native to China, Korea, and Japan. Korean and Japanese varieites are more hardy (just above freezing) but takes longer for the buds to develop than the Chinese varieties (both Korean and Japanese varieites require a more consistent low temp and longer period of vernalization than Chinese C. goeringii). In Korea, Japan, and Shanghai region of China, they get the winter requirements naturally but I think it's very hard to replicate anywhere else.

Yes, Cymbidium kanran grows further south than C. goeringii. So it can take a higher temp in the winter to winterize. They bud in the fall and will bloom before Christmas, no near freezing temp is required to bloom C. kanran. However, it's better to winterize them (after blooming) just above freezing (dryer conditions) during rest. There are 2 types of C. kanran, broad leaf and thin leaf. Generally speaking, the thin leaf varieties are more hardy than the broad leaf varieties.

 

[Ozpaph]

I would have trouble pulling out all the buds

 

[jokerpass]

I would have trouble pulling out all the buds

The plant bloomed too much last year. You are not supposed to bloom it every year, it's not good. It is a standard practice to pluck the buds from C. goeringii.

 

[Linus_Cello]

The plant bloomed too much last year. You are not supposed to bloom it every year, it's not good. It is a standard practice to pluck the buds from C. goeringii.

Can you stop plucking the buds once the plant gets to a large multigrowth size?

 

[BrucherT]

This C. goeringii variety is very floriforous, produced 8 flowers April 2021 and 3 flowers April 2020. This year, produced 4 flower buds. To save energy, as recommended by my Japanese Cymbidium vendor, I decided to pluck all 4 flower buds, so there will be more new vigorous new growths next year. Last picture is the flower picture. Because I decided not to flower them this season, I did not shade the buds, so the buds are green (supposed to be white when you shade the buds) and the flower sheath has a tough texture (flower sheath has a soft texture when you shade). It is still a bit early but almost all C. goeringii in the collection has buds again this year, The coloured varieites I decided to keep the buds are shaded since mid August.

Once again, my kanran and goeringii have died. You are the only person in the west that I have seen grow them. I still don’t know why they die; they simply brown and die within a few months of arriving. They never have a chance to acclimate. I grow many other orchids, including thriving C. ensifolium, which is very easy with summering outdoors. 14 spikes on my big one this year! I will try again with goeringii and kanran even though it feels hopeless.

 

[jokerpass]

Once again, my kanran and goeringii have died. You are the only person in the west that I have seen grow them. I still don’t know why they die; they simply brown and die within a few months of arriving. They never have a chance to acclimate. I grow many other orchids, including thriving C. ensifolium, which is very easy with summering outdoors. 14 spikes on my big one this year! I will try again with goeringii and kanran even though it feels hopeless.

C. ensifolium is probably okay with a regular bark mix. and even without following the traditional method, it will probably be okay. However, it will not work with C. goeringii. C. goeringii requires very specific conditions (and harsh conditions in the winter) with specific instructions, not a flexible species. People who don't follow instructions will not succeed with C. goeringii.

It took me a few tries and once I follow instructions as close as possible, they are all okay.

It is complicated, I have a video on youtube, I don't know if you have seen it already or not. It has all the instructions you need to grow C. goeringii (and not killing it).

 

[jokerpass]

Once again, my kanran and goeringii have died. You are the only person in the west that I have seen grow them. I still don’t know why they die; they simply brown and die within a few months of arriving. They never have a chance to acclimate. I grow many other orchids, including thriving C. ensifolium, which is very easy with summering outdoors. 14 spikes on my big one this year! I will try again with goeringii and kanran even though it feels hopeless.

I know a few people (1 in Canada, 1 in California, and 1 in Europe) who follow my intructions as close as possible, the person in Europe and the person in Canada all bloomed beautifully. The guy in California, followed my instructions showed me the pictures of his fat and juicy buds on 3-4 Japanese C. goeringii last month. He could not bud them before. Since he lives in California, I am not sure if he can bloom them.

To grow C. goeringii, these kind of people would fail miserably:

1. people who have their own thinking and don't like to follow instructions
2. people who think they know how to grow C goeringii and are very opinionated
3. people who don't like to be told what to do.

I have encountered people mentioned above and so far, either they killed them, bloomed with low success rate (3-4 plants out of 30 plants bloomed is a very low blooming rate), or still no bloom. This is my experience so far.

 

[BrucherT]

C. ensifolium is probably okay with a regular bark mix. and even without following the traditional method, it will probably be okay. However, it will not work with C. goeringii. C. goeringii requires very specific conditions (and harsh conditions in the winter) with specific instructions, not a flexible species. People who don't follow instructions will not succeed with C. goeringii.

It took me a few tries and once I follow instructions as close as possible, they are all okay.

It is complicated, I have a video on youtube, I don't know if you have seen it already or not. It has all the instructions you need to grow C. goeringii (and not killing it).

I have not seen your video! I will wait and try again with a fall order. My last order was supposed to be fall but due to COVID, it arrived in spring.

 

[BrucherT]

I know a few people (1 in Canada, 1 in California, and 1 in Europe) who follow my intructions as close as possible, the person in Europe and the person in Canada all bloomed beautifully. The guy in California, followed my instructions showed me the pictures of his fat and juicy buds on 3-4 Japanese C. goeringii last month. He could not bud them before. Since he lives in California, I am not sure if he can bloom them.

To grow C. goeringii, these kind of people would fail miserably:

1. people who have their own thinking and don't like to follow instructions
2. people who think they know how to grow C goeringii and are very opinionated
3. people who don't like to be told what to do.

I have encountered people mentioned above and so far, either they killed them, bloomed with low success rate (3-4 plants out of 30 plants bloomed is a very low blooming rate), or still no bloom. This is my experience so far.

I don’t ever care if they bloom at this point, if they’ll just frickin’ stop dying.

 

[Linus_Cello]

I have not seen your video! I will wait and try again with a fall order. My last order was supposed to be fall but due to COVID, it arrived in spring.

I think the video (on YT) that was mentioned: "An Introduction to East Asian Cymbidiums" - YouTube

 

[jokerpass]

I have not seen your video! I will wait and try again with a fall order. My last order was supposed to be fall but due to COVID, it arrived in spring.

It's better to get them in the spring and to have a high survival rate, the plant must have good roots. With the Japanese Mix, I am able to save a rootless C. goeringii in 1 season; however, this plant has not bloomed for me yet (The root is probably not good enough yet). Since you will not be able to get the plants until the spring, my recommendation now is to find the materials for the potting mix. I know in the US, it is possible to get individual components and you have to make it yourself (the components are hard kanuma, baked akadama, and satsuma). If you cannot get hard kanuma, regular kanuma should be okay. From what I understand, baked akadama may not be available in the US. If all you can get is regular akadama, make sure you only buy large and medium grade, you can forget about small and fine grades, they break/crumble too easily.

 

[jokerpass]

I think the video (on YT) that was mentioned: "An Introduction to East Asian Cymbidiums" - YouTube

yes, that's the one. The video should give anyone the basic knowledge and guideline on how to grow any East Asian Cymbidiums. There is a focus on C. goeringii in the presentation, so it should provide all the information you need to know to keep them alive.

 

[BrucherT]

It's better to get them in the spring and to have a high survival rate, the plant must have good roots. With the Japanese Mix, I am able to save a rootless C. goeringii in 1 season; however, this plant has not bloomed for me yet (The root is probably not good enough yet). Since you will not be able to get the plants until the spring, my recommendation now is to find the materials for the potting mix. I know in the US, it is possible to get individual components and you have to make it yourself (the components are hard kanuma, baked akadama, and satsuma). If you cannot get hard kanuma, regular kanuma should be okay. From what I understand, baked akadama may not be available in the US. If all you can get is regular akadama, make sure you only buy large and medium grade, you can forget about small and fine grades, they break/crumble too easily.

I have received all my goeringii and kanran in the spring and all died. I want to try a fall delivery and maybe that will give them a chance to establish before the heat. 4 tries in spring seems like enough.

The directions on the mixes have been daunting. Those names apply to different substances, to different people. I have no way to know what’s good or bad. No reference points. I have kanuma and pumice from Japan. Even talking about this is just demoralizing. I’ve spent many hours trying to track down correct ingredients and recipes and I have bags of this and that all over but ultimately the plants die before they get a chance to take hold. There’s a reason no one grows these in the U.S. despite their extraordinary beauty and charm. I’ll try again because I’m smitten with them but it is absolutely baffling how difficult they are. I’m always glad for your success.

 

[jokerpass]

I have received all my goeringii and kanran in the spring and all died. I want to try a fall delivery and maybe that will give them a chance to establish before the heat. 4 tries in spring seems like enough.

The directions on the mixes have been daunting. Those names apply to different substances, to different people. I have no way to know what’s good or bad. No reference points. I have kanuma and pumice from Japan. Even talking about this is just demoralizing. I’ve spent many hours trying to track down correct ingredients and recipes and I have bags of this and that all over but ultimately the plants die before they get a chance to take hold. There’s a reason no one grows these in the U.S. despite their extraordinary beauty and charm. I’ll try again because I’m smitten with them but it is absolutely baffling how difficult they are. I’m always glad for your success.

I have no problem providing more guidance and coach to your C. goeringii cultural concerns. You know where to find me on facebook, and you can pm me. I suspect that other than the pottng mix, there is something not right about your set up. We can discuss more of this when I receive your pm on facebook. However, the first step to grow C. goeringii, you need to have the proper/correct potting mix, this is extremely critical.

For the potting mix: Here is a list of components that you can find in the US. in English and Japanese (you should always check/match with the Japanese description).

鹿沼土 (Kanuma)
硬質鹿沼土 (Hard Kanuma)

日向土（Hyuuga/Hyuga)

赤玉土 (Akadama)

焼き赤玉土 (baked Akadama)

薩摩土 (Satsuma). As Japanese can have problems with Kanji (Chinese characters), sometimes, on the bag, it can be written as さつま土 or can be written as サツマ土, but it's the same thing.

sizes: large (大粒）medium (中粒）small (小粒）fine (化粧砂 or can be written as 細粒）

I know the ratio of the pumice blend as described in many C. goeringii books. I can do it myself if I want to but it's a lot of work, so I buy ready-mixed in Japan. In North America, it's not possible, so you have to make a blend yourself. People who I coached in California and in Europe all grow their C. goeringii well in the mix they blend by themselves. Both guys were able to find most of the components. I believe in the European guy cannot find one of the component and he found another pumice with similar properties.

If you cannot find Hard Kanuma in the US, you can use Hyuuga as a substitute as Hard Kanuma, these 2 pumices have very similar properties.

The most important size is the medium size as it is used to fill 80% of the pot.