Difficulties locating AzaMax- substitutes?

[Skoester]

Based on recommendations from members of the group, I recently purchased a container of Azamax and completed a second round of spraying for thrips. I’m now on the hunt for more to finish the third treatment. There appears to be a shortage of it because I had some difficulties locating it a couple of weeks ago, and the few companies that were carrying it were asking far more than companies with no inventory.

Does anyone know of something going on with it? And any suggestions for an alternative? I’m seeing Azapro and Debug turbo listed as possible alternatives, but would love to use something that others have used safely on orchids.

 

[mrhappyrotter]

Based on recommendations from members of the group, I recently purchased a container of Azamax and completed a second round of spraying for thrips. I’m now on the hunt for more to finish the third treatment. There appears to be a shortage of it because I had some difficulties locating it a couple of weeks ago, and the few companies that were carrying it were asking far more than companies with no inventory.

Does anyone know of something going on with it? And any suggestions for an alternative? I’m seeing Azapro and Debug turbo listed as possible alternatives, but would love to use something that others have used safely on orchids.

How much do you need? I haven't heard anything about a shortage, but looking online real quick, I can see that it's out of stock at several places I'd normally order it. I do have some left over, so if you can't find a suitable substitute and desperately need some AzaMax, I could potentially spare some.

I don't use the stuff often and I typically use it in conjunction with other treatments like an IGR or a standard synthetic pyrethroid. For something like thrips, I'd be inclined to use something systemic. I don't like to use systemics or neonicotinoids outdoors in my garden, but I will for indoor house plants under certain circumstances.

 

[PeteM]

This is troubling, it really has been my go to for a few years now. Hopefully the issue is resolved. Prior to Azamax, I was using a product called Growsafe that a friend recommended, that also worked indoors. At the time I was mainly fighting mites.

​

 

[Ray]

Totally different control mechanism, but you might consider giving OrganiShield a try as a safe alternative.

It is a new release of what used to be sold as SucraShield, which is a solution of sucrose octanoate esters that - rather than a toxin, per se - acts as a "super surfactant" to strip protective layers off soft-bodied insects and mites, adults, juveniles, and eggs, leading to suffocation/desiccation on contact.

 

[Skoester]

Totally different control mechanism, but you might consider giving OrganiShield a try as a safe alternative.

It is a new release of what used to be sold as SucraShield, which is a solution of sucrose octanoate esters that - rather than a toxin, per se - acts as a "super surfactant" to strip protective layers off soft-bodied insects and mites, adults, juveniles, and eggs, leading to suffocation/desiccation on contact.

Thanks, Ray. Yes, I had actually used the OrganiShield once before going to the AzaMax and plants were looking better but I decided to hit everything with three rounds of the AzaMax since I’d found thrips on a recent purchase and wanted to get them knocked out. My intent going forward was to start spraying any new purchases with it as a preventative in order to hopefully avoid having to treat the entire collection again anytime soon.

For those of you who use a systemic along with AzaMax to knock out thrips or mites, what are you using indoors? I saw a reference to Safari on one of the threads but it only mentions working as a suppressant for mites.

 

[Skoester]

How much do you need? I haven't heard anything about a shortage, but looking online real quick, I can see that it's out of stock at several places I'd normally order it. I do have some left over, so if you can't find a suitable substitute and desperately need some AzaMax, I could potentially spare some.

I don't use the stuff often and I typically use it in conjunction with other treatments like an IGR or a standard synthetic pyrethroid. For something like thrips, I'd be inclined to use something systemic. I don't like to use systemics or neonicotinoids outdoors in my garden, but I will for indoor house plants under certain circumstances.

Thank you so much for the offer- that is most kind but you may need to stockpile it. I was looking to purchase another 16 oz container since I need about half that for another treatment. I’m going to call a couple of the vendors today to see if they can tell me what is going on with supplies.

What systemic do you use indoors for mites/thrips? Someone mentioned that they had greater success when using both a systemic and Azax when treating thrips, but I wasn’t sure which systemic they were referring to.

 

[Skoester]

This is troubling, it really has been my go to for a few years now. Hopefully the issue is resolved. Prior to Azamax, I was using a product called Growsafe that a friend recommended, that also worked indoors. At the time I was mainly fighting mites.

​

Thanks, Pete. I’ll check Growsafe out.

 

[PeteM]

Totally different control mechanism, but you might consider giving OrganiShield a try as a safe alternative.

It is a new release of what used to be sold as SucraShield, which is a solution of sucrose octanoate esters that - rather than a toxin, per se - acts as a "super surfactant" to strip protective layers off soft-bodied insects and mites, adults, juveniles, and eggs, leading to suffocation/desiccation on contact.

I still have my bottle of SucraShield you sold me when talking to NCOS an lifetime ago. Might try this again.

 

[PeteM]

Thank you so much for the offer- that is most kind but you may need to stockpile it. I was looking to purchase another 16 oz container since I need about half that for another treatment. I’m going to call a couple of the vendors today to see if they can tell me what is going on with supplies.

What systemic do you use indoors for mites/thrips? Someone mentioned that they had greater success when using both a systemic and Azax when treating thrips, but I wasn’t sure which systemic they were referring to.

I use Bonide Insect Control Systemic Granules and I also employ Safari, which is more expensive and I have to be a bit more careful with because I dissolve and spray it on roots directly with a small hand held spray bottle, very limited targeted amounts as needed for troubled plants. Attaching pictures for reference.

I’ve also found that going through the collection plant by plant and wiping down leaves with 70% iso alcohol once a year helps tremendously cleaning off dirt and dust collected by treatments., helping the leaves with overall function.

In addition, removing any old growth that is infested. Especially for scale in cattleyas. Removing old growth (poor relations) and repotting works very well at eliminating scale.. all the systemics only work for the active and new growth where the plant is allocating resources for the vegetation growth, the older growth has no systemic protection. This is done during repotting and I am not shy about throwing out infested back bulbs.

After a few seasons of this aggressive regiment, I’ve eliminated nearly all scale and thrips from the collection, I still have an annual battle with mites no matter how often I treat.

Hope this helps.

 

[richgarrison]

there are other brands of the same chemical (azadirachtin) in either the same concentration as azamax or other variations.. but you may need to buy a lot to get a decent cost point...

Azapro (1.2%)
Azaguard (3%)

Azasol - (6% instead 1.2%) - comes in a powder form with typically longer shelf life - thinking this is my next alternative but haven't looked at cost per dose
Azera but also has pyrethrins

also just noticed that amazon has azamax 4 oz from 2 sources...

 

[Skoester]

I use Bonide Insect Control Systemic Granules and I also employ Safari, which is more expensive and I have to be a bit more careful with because I dissolve and spray it on roots directly with a small hand held spray bottle, very limited targeted amounts as needed for troubled plants. Attaching pictures for reference.

I’ve also found that going through the collection plant by plant and wiping down leaves with 70% iso alcohol once a year helps tremendously cleaning off dirt and dust collected by treatments., helping the leaves with overall function.

In addition, removing any old growth that is infested. Especially for scale in cattleyas. Removing old growth (poor relations) and repotting works very well at eliminating scale.. all the systemics only work for the active and new growth where the plant is allocating resources for the vegetation growth, the older growth has no systemic protection. This is done during repotting and I am not shy about throwing out infested back bulbs.

After a few seasons of this aggressive regiment, I’ve eliminated nearly all scale and thrips from the collection, I still have an annual battle with mites no matter how often I treat.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the detailed instructions, Pete. Most helpful. I’ll add Bonide to my toolkit. I grabbed a Safari equivalent as well.

 

[Skoester]

there are other brands of the same chemical (azadirachtin) in either the same concentration as azamax or other variations.. but you may need to buy a lot to get a decent cost point...

Azapro (1.2%)
Azaguard (3%)

Azasol - (6% instead 1.2%) - comes in a powder form with typically longer shelf life - thinking this is my next alternative but haven't looked at cost per dose
Azera but also has pyrethrins

also just noticed that amazon has azamax 4 oz from 2 sources...

Thanks, Rich.

I spent some time calling around yesterday and was able to find the Azapro and Azaguard locally, so am going to try the Azapro but the Azasol powder looks appealing for the reasons you noted- will check it out.

I did speak to several hydroponic vendors and asked if they knew what was going on with the AzaMax. Everyone said that there had been supply issues with them for some months. A couple told me the that the product had been discontinued, two told me that there are labeling issues in California similar to what they’d had a couple of years ago, two told me that their supplier was out and not showing when it would be available and one told me that they were told it should be available by end of October but that they thought it would be closer to end of year…so nothing definitive.

Rich, I noticed that Amazon had some AzaMax listed, but the vendor is charging $90 for a 4oz and $190 for a 16oz. I gave about $80 incl shipping for a 16oz a couple of weeks ago. Looks like some vendors are taking advantage of the shortage- I found a few bottles of Azamax locally and it was a similar situation.

 

[southernbelle]

I use the St Aug OS pest control list of insecticides and I alternate those with different modes of action as Safari and Imidacloprid have same modes of action. For thrips, though, I’ve gone to their big gun (Overture (thrip specific) and simply spray the sheath just as buds are emerging. No thrips this year with this protocol. Only negative: I had to buy a lifetime supply (1 lb about $110 if memory serves) to get it, as it’s a commercial product. It comes in fine powder form in pre measured dissolvable 2oz bags for use in a large sprayer. I’ve only opened one of the packets and kept the rest sealed. I would be happy to sell, at cost, individual packets if someone wants to try it as there is no way I’ll ever use all of this. I sprayed first, 3 times, which eradicated them, then spritz sheaths only now. Here is the link to the St Aug info. I’ll update this with the price broken down by each packet when I can look it up. These pages are invaluable. If there is something you don’t recognize, send Sue a photo and she often can figure it out.
https://staugorchidsociety.org/culturepests.htm

 

[southernbelle]

PeteM and richgarrison since you expressed interest, I'll PM details as I've found my invoice.

 

[Skoester]

PeteM and richgarrison since you expressed interest, I'll PM details as I've found my invoice.

I use the St Aug OS pest control list of insecticides and I alternate those with different modes of action as Safari and Imidacloprid have same modes of action. For thrips, though, I’ve gone to their big gun (Overture (thrip specific) and simply spray the sheath just as buds are emerging. No thrips this year with this protocol. Only negative: I had to buy a lifetime supply (1 lb about $110 if memory serves) to get it, as it’s a commercial product. It comes in fine powder form in pre measured dissolvable 2oz bags for use in a large sprayer. I’ve only opened one of the packets and kept the rest sealed. I would be happy to sell, at cost, individual packets if someone wants to try it as there is no way I’ll ever use all of this. I sprayed first, 3 times, which eradicated them, then spritz sheaths only now. Here is the link to the St Aug info. I’ll update this with the price broken down by each packet when I can look it up. These pages are invaluable. If there is something you don’t recognize, send Sue a photo and she often can figure it out.
https://staugorchidsociety.org/culturepests.htm

Thanks for the link to the St Aug info. I’ve only scratched the surface of a few of the articles but some great information here that I’ll spend more time reading later this weekend. Thanks for sharing.

I would be interested in some of the Overture if you still have any that is not spoken for.

 

[southernbelle]

Thanks for the detailed instructions, Pete. Most helpful. I’ll add Bonide to my toolkit. I grabbed a Safari equivalent as well.

I use Bonide Insect Control Systemic Granules and I also employ Safari, which is more expensive and I have to be a bit more careful with because I dissolve and spray it on roots directly with a small hand held spray bottle, very limited targeted amounts as needed for troubled plants. Attaching pictures for reference.

I’ve also found that going through the collection plant by plant and wiping down leaves with 70% iso alcohol once a year helps tremendously cleaning off dirt and dust collected by treatments., helping the leaves with overall function.

In addition, removing any old growth that is infested. Especially for scale in cattleyas. Removing old growth (poor relations) and repotting works very well at eliminating scale.. all the systemics only work for the active and new growth where the plant is allocating resources for the vegetation growth, the older growth has no systemic protection. This is done during repotting and I am not shy about throwing out infested back bulbs.

After a few seasons of this aggressive regiment, I’ve eliminated nearly all scale and thrips from the collection, I still have an annual battle with mites no matter how often I treat.

Hope this helps.

Pete, Bonide Insect granules are Imidacloprid and Safari is Dinotefuran. On the St. Aug chart neither are listed for thrips and neither kill mites. It might be because they suppress rather than eradicate. I’ve looked at the labels te thrips but don’t remember. I know mites take specific products as they are in the spider family.
In any event, both insecticides are “Grouo 4 A” insecticides indicating they have the same mode of action, which means alternating those does not protect against resistance for listed pests.
You need to use products from 2 different groups to have those with different modes of action. All insecticides are labeled as to group now (usually in upper right of label) so it’s easier to know but there is a gov’t doc that lists what each group contains. Here is a link to the gov doc
https://irac-online.org/mode-of-action/classification-online/

 

[PeteM]

Pete, Bonide Insect granules are Imidacloprid and Safari is Dinotefuran. On the St. Aug chart neither are listed for thrips and neither kill mites. It might be because they suppress rather than eradicate. I’ve looked at the labels te thrips but don’t remember. I know mites take specific products as they are in the spider family.
In any event, both insecticides are “Grouo 4 A” insecticides indicating they have the same mode of action, which means alternating those does not protect against resistance for listed pests.
You need to use products from 2 different groups to have those with different modes of action. All insecticides are labeled as to group now (usually in upper right of label) so it’s easier to know but there is a gov’t doc that lists what each group contains. Here is a link to the gov doc
https://irac-online.org/mode-of-action/classification-online/

Here is the Safari label.
Here is the Bonide granules label.

Thrips are listed for both, I also don’t have issues with thrips ever on orchids. I’ll have to look into the different modes of action. I’m really trying to limit the use of these harder options as I grow indoors and just don’t want the exposure. I really like the growth inhibitors options like Azamax for this reason.

 

[southernbelle]

Here is the Safari label.
Here is the Bonide granules label.

Thrips are listed for both, I also don’t have issues with thrips ever on orchids. I’ll have to look into the different modes of action. I’m really trying to limit the use of these harder options as I grow indoors and just don’t want the exposure. I really like the growth inhibitors options like Azamax for this reason.

No worries. The Overture is only labeled ‘caution’ (same as imidacloprid) which is the lowest classification. So I turn off my fans and just lightly spritz the flower with paper towel behind it to catch overspray. But you have to do what works for you.
Interesting about the labels. I remembered the St Aug sheet having them both as suppressors, but the imidacloprid brands listed don’t show Bonide on their sheet. But the two Bayer imidacloprid products they show are much stronger concentrations thsn the Bonide and those just suppress. Merit is the strongest at 75% imidacloprid, but is not listed for thrips on their sheet because it causes floral damage on orchids. It’s great as a drench in soil but when I inquired about using it as a drench in orchid bark, the company technical folks said they did not think it would be effective because of the porosity and it takes so long (even in soil) to become effective that you would have to spray as well (and it would damage the flowers on orchids). We used it for Jap beetles on roses. Very effective if flowers were spritzed every morning, it did not damage rose flowers, though. Avid was always my go to for mites and it does suppress thrips and I don’t remember floral damage but with mites I did not spray the flowers.
Re the mode of action stuff. I knew from roses what chemicals had different modes of action but was not familial with some of the newer orchid chemicals and didn’t know how to find the info until I found the IRAC stuff and realized it’s grouped by a number on the label. Website lists all by group, but Bonide’s label does not have it that I could find. I find this all to be so darn complicated, and way out of the comfort zone of a non scientific person like myself. I tended to trust the Augustine info and then the IRAC groupings. It’s a pain to deal with any insects indoors, especially, so last thing you want is to have something potentially cause resistance. When I lost my summer /fall cattleya bloom the second time in 3 yrs because of thrips I realized I needed something that worked better.

 

[terryros]

Deborah, you have acquired excellent knowledge about multiple important pests. I suspect that you have this nicely written down and not just in your head?

 

[PeteM]

Deborah, you have acquired excellent knowledge about multiple important pests. I suspect that you have this nicely written down and not just in your head?

We ARE talking about Deborah. I imagine she has laminated print outs!