Historic Hybrid ID

[Bailey Hale]

I'm curious if anyone has any speculation on what this (presumably very old) hybrid might be.

Here in Madeira you find some very old plants that likely came here more than a century ago with British aristocratic families. These plants have been divided time and time again and the history has been lost. None are as prevalent as P. insigne, which is everywhere, but in older collections or on doorsteps you still find what I can only presume are some of the earliest primary hybrids.

These are photos from December. I bought this from an old lady whose late husband produced insigne for the cut market and she was liquidating his collection. The photos are of the same flower with different lighting.

I would have to guess P. villosum is one of the parents and it has to get its slightly mottle leaves from the other parent.



Here is the collection where I got my plants. Mostly insigne and then several pots of this red hybrid.

 

[big923cattleya]

It could have charlesworthii in the background.

 

[gonewild]

It reminds me of Paph King Arthur.

 

[SelectOrchids]

I would think Paphiopedilum Bingleyense

 

[mrhappyrotter]

I would think Paphiopedilum Bingleyense

My first thought was Paphiopedilum Harrisianum ( barbatum × villosum), but I was thinking I saw some charlesworthii in that flower. So something like Bingleyense (charlesworthii × Harrisianum) makes sense to me.

 

[Tom-DE]

It is not easy to confirm the ID of those old complexed hybrids, at least not 100% sure of it. I used to have one that looked very similar to yours and I had never got it identified...
Love the photo of the collection...very impressive.

 

[big923cattleya]

Paph. villosum x Paph. charlesworthii is Paph. Wrigleyi I think it was. Cross made in 1908.

 

[Bailey Hale]

I think we're all in the same neighborhood! Thanks for your suggestions.

I would have to agree with either Paph. Bingleyense (Paph. charlesworthii x Paph. Harrisianum) or King Aurthur (Paph. Bingleyense x Paph. Monsieur de Curte) but we may never know! The slightly mottled leaves would be explained by the dash of barbatum in either of these.

I have a plant of Paph. Bingleyense on its way to me and if the Portuguese Post don't kill it in transit maybe I can compare someday.

It seems Paph. Harrisianum was made by the famous Vietch family in 1869, just a few years after Madeira's most famous Vietch, Henry, died (1782-1857). He was British Consul to Madeira at the time and while I haven't traced him directly back to the orchid Vietch family yet, he must have been related, right? Henry had estates and gardens here and surely had orchids. There are still several remarkable buildings built by Vietch so maybe there is some history hiding somewhere that I can uncover. (I still want to figure out how and when insigne got here!)

The photos I can find of King Arthur look most similar to mine. It seems that King Arthur was used for cut flower production which was the previous purpose of this plant so that makes sense.
(my googling found that they are still using it commercially for cutting in Italy, along with a number of early hybrids http://orchideeaprosio.com/?lang=en).

In my younger years I would have turned my nose up at these old gawky early hybrids, but now that I'm firmly middle aged I find myself quite charmed by them and very curious about the history of these. It's exciting that there might be more of them lurking behind walls all over the island! I love frost free living!

Thanks again for your clues.

 

[Brabantia]

It reminds me of Paph King Arthur.

Yes