Hybrid name question

[orchideya]

Las spring I got a flask from Orchid Inn labelled
Paph. Paul Parks(sanderianum 'Lady in Red' x adductum var. anitum 'Ace' AM/AOS)
Now I discovered that sanderianum x anitum = Yang-Ji Hawk.

Is Paph. adductum var. anitum = Paph. anitum and my flasklings are actually Yang-Ji Hawk?
Or they are still Paul Parks?


Thanks

 

[eggshells]

It really depends on who you ask. Some people (including me) consider anitum as a separate species from adductum. Different leaves, flower and even growth habit. Heck even hybrid progenies are different from parent adductum and/or anitum.

I even spoke with Golamco when I came to the Philippines about this. His opinions is the same as mine. Though it was well after the fact that he described it. Maybe he changed his opinion after that? I don't know.

 

[Felix]

It depends on which taxonomists opinion you follow (or rather your own).
If you see anitum just as a varietas of Paph. adductum, than the cross would be Paph. Paul Parks. If you see anitum as a species, it would be Yang-Ji Hawk.
Kew Gardens doesn't accept anitum as species (neither as varietas), so according to Kew there is only Paph. Paul Parks.

 

[orchideya]

Well, I would like to go by the official status, and according to International Orchid Register anitum is a separate species and is one of the parents of Yang-Ji Hawk. What I am trying to find out is if adductum var anitum = anitum or there are two different things
Paphiopedilum anitum
and
Paphiopedilum adductum var. anitum

Sorry, if it is too confusing, but if I follow IOR, should I change the label?

 

[eggshells]

Paph. adductum var. anitum and Paph. anitum is one of the same. If that is what you are asking.

 

[orchideya]

Yes, Eggshells that's exactly what I was asking!
So I need to change my labels, I have Paph. Yang-Ji Hawk now.

 

[Felix]

Well, I think if you follow the International Orchid Register you follow Kew. Like Kew, it says there that Paphiopedilum anitum is a synonym (http://apps.rhs.org.uk/horticulturaldatabase/orchidregister/orchiddetails.asp?ID=128803).
(Not saying this for Paph. adductum: http://apps.rhs.org.uk/horticulturaldatabase/orchidregister/orchiddetails.asp?ID=78746).

To my knowledge, the IOR doesn't have it's own taxonomic opinion but therefore follows Kew.
So the official status says that anitum is certainly not a separate species, but a synonym for adductum, which makes the Hybrids with anitum Hybrids with adductum and so you have a Paph. Paul Parks. If someone would come to the IOR to register a new Hybrid with anitum, they would make it a hybrid with adductum (but save the info, that you originally used the taxon anitum, which is important if anitum would become a separate species by the 'official' opinion).
That's the so called official status you asked for - of course you can have your own opinion.

 

[orchideya]

Ok, but if you search for Yang-Ji Hawk
http://apps.rhs.org.uk/horticulturaldatabase/orchidregister/orchiddetails.asp?ID=917364
it lists pollen parent as just Paph anitum not adductum var. anitum. So if it can be listed as parent, it must be recognized? No?

 

[Felix]

No, because you see they follow Kew with seeing anitum as a synonym of adductum. I think they just did not change every hybrid with anitum yet, marking it as a synonym of the hybrids with adductum.
Same goes for many taxa which are former species (like Phalaenopsis rimestadiana). It would be lots of work to update every single hybrid made with that former species (and sometimes the former species gets separated again so if would be lots of work to change it again...).

 

[orchideya]

Thanks.
So, it used to be a separate species and now it is not and that means that my Paul Parks label is correct then.
If database was updated as it should be, would the name Yang-Ji Hawk seize to exist now?

 

[NYEric]

Um... I hate to bring this up but one is CITES restricted in the US and the other is not.

 

[Felix]

Thanks.
So, it used to be a separate species and now it is not and that means that my Paul Parks label is correct then.
If database was updated as it should be, would the name Yang-Ji Hawk seize to exist now?

I think if it was updated the name Yang-Ji Hawk would be declared as a synonym (for the Hybrid Paul Parks) like anitum is seen as a synonym for adductum.

CITES is even more not updated than the IOR concerning taxonomical changes. If we would follow CITES according taxonomical names, than there would be quite a lot weird taxa I guess (and CITES is also just following other taxonomists (Kew) with plant names to my knowledge)

 

[Drorchid]

Thanks.
So, it used to be a separate species and now it is not and that means that my Paul Parks label is correct then.
If database was updated as it should be, would the name Yang-Ji Hawk seize to exist now?

No, it wont seize to exist. If the RHS considers Paph. anitum to be the same species as Paph. adductum (but a different variety), any hybrid made with Paph. anitum could stilll be considered as a "sub-grex". According to the RHS, whenever there is a horticulturally significant and stable variation that was created by using specific forms and is nothing like an existing form it's eligible to be registered as a sub-grex. In this case when using Paph. anitum the flowers will be much darker in color than when using Paph. adductum, so the name of your hybrid could be Paph. Paul Parks subgrex Yang-Ji Hawk. But it has to be registerd as such (by the person that registered Paph. Yang-Ji Hawk). If not, Paph. Yang-Ji Hawk will be considered a synonym of Paph. Paul Parks.

Robert

 

[SlipperFan]

Crazy orchidists! :crazy:

 

[Ozpaph]

If Sam Tsui calls it Paul Parks and labelled it that way, that's' what Id call it (for now)

 

[John M]

I'm a splitter. I believe that anitum deserves separate species status. Therefor, since "anitum" and "adductum v. anitum" are refering to the same plant....and your plants have "adductum var. anitum 'Ace' AM/AOS" as a parent, your seedlings are Paph. Yang-Ji Hawk.