Kelpak again

[naoki]

256 is just convenient -a tablespoon per gallon.
I also don't know if such hormone treatments are a "whole body" thing, or if they only affect the point of application.

I can say that the application of the auxins (Kelpak/KelpMax is roughly 350:1 auxin to cytokinin), the first reaction is that of significant root tip growth, and as they do, they natually emit cytokinis that lead to cell elongation and growth.

I have focused on the chemical as a root growth stimulant, but I suppose, with proper study, it could be a flower size/conformation factor, as well. The US importer owns a winery, and he uses the stuff on the grape vines immediately after fruit-set. It causes the elongation of the rachis, allowing fruit development without interference from adjacent grapes, and creates more room for penetration of fungicides. He, therefore, gets much better yields of better fruit.

Auxin is used for a long distance signaling (from shoot to root), so if it CAN go through the cuticle/stomata, then it could get into the phloem stream. But similar to you, I don't know if leaf absorption is possible or not. Auxin does help cell elongation, but I think we are using it to formation of adventitious and lateral roots, aren't we? It promotes differentiation of pericycle cells to from lateral root founder cells. I think this is what you mentioned at one point in some forum or email (and the textbook confirms it). My textbook doesn't mention about the higher growth rate of root tips, though.

Interesting story about winery, I didn't know they use Kelp for grapes. Also, I didn't know the other advantage (penetration of fungicides). For eating grapes (Thompson Seedless), Gibberelin is used and has the same effect as auxin (larger, looser fruits). Both of them cause parthenocarpy, too. But kelp can be considered "organic", I guess.

 

[Ray]

Actually, gibberellins are found in most seaweeds, too, but they are SO unstable, that they are effectively defunct almost immediately (or so my reading stated).

 

[Trithor]

North Saskatchewan is beautiful. Not like the prairies at all.

I keep my seaweed in the fridge.

Is that to stop it freezing?:rollhappy:

 

[cnycharles]

I think the better working of fungicides is purely a space issue (more air/space around each grape, so better spray penetration into the cluster and prevention of rot also because of more air)?

 

[Ray]

Absolutely Charles. That was my point - we tend to use these supplements to enhance root growth, while the grape grower uses it for better fruit spacing on the rachis for fuller berries and easier penetration of fungicides (specifically Oleotrol-M and sulfur).

In the US, a lot of almond growers also use it, and as we learned from the Phillies, turf too.

 

[consettbay2003]

www.kelpak.com

It's used as a foliar spray for a large number of crops.

 

[cnycharles]

Absolutely Charles. That was my point - we tend to use these supplements to enhance root growth, while the grape grower uses it for better fruit spacing on the rachis for fuller berries and easier penetration of fungicides (specifically Oleotrol-M and sulfur).

In the US, a lot of almond growers also use it, and as we learned from the Phillies, turf too.

I should have included a quote from Naoki's last post; she was mentioning not knowing about the benefit of fungicide penetration and I was assuming she meant chemical penetration into the tissue so I was explaining the point you had stated (though looking now I see she probably understood)

 

[Ray]

www.kelpak.com

It's used as a foliar spray for a large number of crops.

True, but none of them are orchids.

Foliar absorption apparently occurs primarily through regions associated with stomata known as "plasmodesmata". Stomata occur in large numbers and are distributed widely in terrestrial plants, but occur in much smaller numbers, primarily on the undersides of the leaves, and often protected by lipid coatings in orchids, greatly limiting the foliar uptake.

Is there some uptake? Probably. Is it significant? I don't know, but I suppose we'll learn someday.

 

[Stone]

Yeah these guys are spoiled! We get -45c here in the middle of winter.

Yeah but its a dry cold

 

[Ray]

I visited my grandparents outside of North Battleford, Sask one Christmas Holiday when I was a kid. It was apparently a VERY mild winter - only -25°.

I stuck to summers-only after that.

 

[NYEric]

It's used as a foliar spray for a large number of crops.

Thanks.

Yeah but its a dry cold

:rollhappy:

 

[Trithor]

I visited my grandparents outside of North Battleford, Sask one Christmas Holiday when I was a kid. It was apparently a VERY mild winter - only -25°.

I stuck to summers-only after that.

Do people realy live in places like that? Sounds like it should be reserved for a high-risk prison only.

 

[Stone]

I just got my Kelpak today. I was very surprised to see it is green and watery. The Seasol I've been using is thick and black!. According to the website they recommend 1:100 dilution for flower seedlings (which are pretty tender) So I would presume a similar rate for orchids should be ok? So thats 10ml/Lt.
The Seasol recommendation for seedling, indoors etc is more like 1:260 but its probably more concentrated?
ALtoronto is using the same rate as Ray about 1:260 aprox. I think any less than that would be too weak. So I might start with 1:150 or something like that every 2 weeks.

 

[ALToronto]

Do people realy live in places like that? Sounds like it should be reserved for a high-risk prison only.

There is no such thing as bad weather. There is only inadequate clothing.

 

[ALToronto]

I just got my Kelpak today. I was very surprised to see it is green and watery. The Seasol I've been using is thick and black!. According to the website they recommend 1:100 dilution for flower seedlings (which are pretty tender) So I would presume a similar rate for orchids should be ok? So thats 10ml/Lt.
The Seasol recommendation for seedling, indoors etc is more like 1:260 but its probably more concentrated?
ALtoronto is using the same rate as Ray about 1:260 aprox. I think any less than that would be too weak. So I might start with 1:150 or something like that every 2 weeks.

I was using double my current rate (1:125 or so) at first, until Ray told me it was likely a waste of product. Still, the high dosage really helped the plants get established after repotting. I don't know if lower dosage would have had the exact same effect. It certainly doesn't hurt to overdose.

 

[naoki]

Well, it probably depends on the magnitude of overdosing. Plants are pretty sensitive to hormones, so tiny amount can have a large effect. That's a part of the reason why it is not easy to discover them. Also, it is known that if you put to much auxin in plant tissue culture, it slows the growth, so the response curve is bell shaped.

 

[consettbay2003]

The manufacturer recommends 1:100 dilution for the initial dosing but 1:400 for subsequent treatments on ornamental plants and flowers.

 

[Ozpaph]

There is no such thing as bad weather. There is only inadequate clothing.

Spoken by someone who's never lived in the sub-tropics oke::rollhappy:

 

[cnycharles]

Do people realy live in places like that? Sounds like it should be reserved for a high-risk prison only.

I think that's what everyone said about Australia at first ! ;p


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[Ray]

I just got my Kelpak today. I was very surprised to see it is green and watery. The Seasol I've been using is thick and black!. According to the website they recommend 1:100 dilution for flower seedlings (which are pretty tender) So I would presume a similar rate for orchids should be ok? So thats 10ml/Lt.
The Seasol recommendation for seedling, indoors etc is more like 1:260 but its probably more concentrated?
ALtoronto is using the same rate as Ray about 1:260 aprox. I think any less than that would be too weak. So I might start with 1:150 or something like that every 2 weeks.

Kelpak is simply kelp juice with a very small amount of preservative. Many other brands have been condensed (in some cases fully dried), which give them a more solid appearance, but also degrades the hormones.

The manufacturers of Kelpak recommend about 1:400 ratio to start, potentially using more as needed. Two teaspoons per gallon = 1:384, a tablespoon per gallon (which is what I use) is 1:256.

They also state that anything less than about 1:500 is a waste of time, resulting in no reaction, but I have had customers tell me otherwise.

I think that - as important as concentration - is frequency of use. The application of hormones "turns on" processes within the plant, and those, in turn, "turn on" other ones. the time span for the plant to return to its "base level" - the pre-treatment state - is in the area of 2-3 weeks, so that shoud be the maximum frequency of use. I go with 4-6 weeks.