Limestone and bonemeal

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Wendy

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I already add limestone screenings to my Paphs (that need it). I've noticed that some people have mentioned using bonemeal. Please tell me more about bonemeal? Do you use it in addition to limestone? At what rate? Why do you use it? I hope these aren't silly questions but if I can do something to improve on my culture using bonemeal I would like to know.

Thanks! :)
 
Is there a particular group of paphs that benefit from bonemeal and/or limestone? I haven't been using either one on any of my plants.
 
Don't use the yellow kind made w/ porcine material, you will get flies and maggots! :(


This is all I could get lately too, but I haven't had a problem with flies and maggots. But I'm in a GH so I may be clueless.

I use it in conjunction with oyster shell and/or limestone screenings for the calcerous paphs and all by itself for barbata and other non calcereous orchids.

As noted it's great for a phosphorus boost (much more than limestone), and a mild support of pH (not as strong as limestone or oyster shell).

I've been adding it to all my orchid potting mixes for about a year now, and pretty happy with growth in general. Marylin LeDoux uses it in her phrag potting mixes too, and there's not much argument about the quality of her plants.

If you are using a high P fertilizer then it's probably a waste. If you are using a balanced or MSU fert then I think its a good idea.

I haven't seen the help for rot that Rick has seen or that I was hoping for.:(
 
I've used it on all of mine for more then 6 mos. (Paphs and Phrags)and have seen no ill effects. Only positive or no apparent effect so far. I did read somewhere that "vini" colored species were phosphate starved so if you would use bone meal on them it could effect the outcome. I would like to see someone else verify this info. Any members here, that could verify this?
 
I've used it on all of mine for more then 6 mos. (Paphs and Phrags)and have seen no ill effects. Only positive or no apparent effect so far. I did read somewhere that "vini" colored species were phosphate starved so if you would use bone meal on them it could effect the outcome. I would like to see someone else verify this info. Any members here, that could verify this?

I speculated on this in an old post, but I've never seen any definitive work on this. I think it popped up in a post about a blue cochlopetalum.

Anecdotally, I've been adding it to my callosums, and the var sublaeve I just posted has pretty good color (though not a vini to start with).
 
Thanks all. I noticed it on the shelf at the local garden centre the other day so I will pick up a tub. Do you top dress or does it matter? A couple handfuls?
 
Thanks all. I noticed it on the shelf at the local garden centre the other day so I will pick up a tub. Do you top dress or does it matter? A couple handfuls?

I top dress and mix it into new batches of potting mix. This stuff goes allot farther than you'd expect, so more like a tsp or so for 1/2 gal of mix.

If you are top dressing then maybe a 1/4 tsp per 4"-6" pt.
 
I started adding bonemeal last summer after reading Rick's posts (I was already top dressing with oyster shell then) and so far, so good. Obviously it's hard to talk about the exact difference it makes because I don't have a control group or anything like that to compare with but it doesn't seem to be doing any harm and I'm happy with the plant's growth and flowering.

I can't remember what source mine is from but I've had no issues with maggots or anything. The box says it's sterilised so maybe that makes a difference. I only use a small amount, no more than a tea spoon depending on the size of the pot. It definitely goes a long way.

Btw, I noticed that some gardening stores sell it as a supplement to "promote strong root growth" Any thoughts on that with regards to orchids/slippers?
 
I don't know if this is something Eric wants to cut & "post" in his culture MEGAthread. But here it goes, another ST member whom apparently has done a lot of research on physiological requirements of paphs. Says that the addition of limestone etc. added to the mix is not to stablize the pH as much as it is for the creation of HCO3 (ant)ions. Apparently, carbonate ions causes a physiological change in the roots to start producing acid. The acid inturn dissolves minerals, chemicals etc that the plant needs. When you think about it, it does make some since. In nature, the plants don't have the luxury of being repotted each year. This is only my opinion, We start our plants out in a new pot with new media and are told to feed them with water slightly acid so they can take up what they need. As time goes on, the media breaks down, becomes more acid. The plant is producing acid and we are still feeding with an acidic water source. What do you get? Rotten roots and a stuggling plant. Most of the Paph species are growing in association with limestone out crops. I was told long ago it was because of competition with other plants. That maybe true but I also think the Paphs are on the limestone because they need it to survive, dissolve it and extract what they need. Like I said, this is only my theory that I've come up with from what I've read.
 
I don't know if this is something Eric wants to cut & "post" in his culture MEGAthread. But here it goes, another ST member whom apparently has done a lot of research on physiological requirements of paphs. Says that the addition of limestone etc. added to the mix is not to stablize the pH as much as it is for the creation of HCO3 (ant)ions. Apparently, carbonate ions causes a physiological change in the roots to start producing acid. The acid inturn dissolves minerals, chemicals etc that the plant needs. When you think about it, it does make some since. In nature, the plants don't have the luxury of being repotted each year. This is only my opinion, We start our plants out in a new pot with new media and are told to feed them with water slightly acid so they can take up what they need. As time goes on, the media breaks down, becomes more acid. The plant is producing acid and we are still feeding with an acidic water source. What do you get? Rotten roots and a stuggling plant. Most of the Paph species are growing in association with limestone out crops. I was told long ago it was because of competition with other plants. That maybe true but I also think the Paphs are on the limestone because they need it to survive, dissolve it and extract what they need. Like I said, this is only my theory that I've come up with from what I've read.

There's pros and cons of your discusion. Just for clarification, HC03 is bicarbonate (rather than carbonate CO3). I wouldn't say most paphs are calcareous. Very few if any of the barbata and pardopetalum are found on limestone. With a few exceptions brachys and parvis are, and most coryopetalum too. The single flower strap leaves are split about 2/3 calcareous too I beleive. Roth is an odd ball being associated with serpentine (Mg Si hydroxides). I don't think paphs are found on limestone to avoid competition. The plant species list that Averyanov includes in his descriptions of paph habitats is pretty impressive, and here in TN (karst limestone country), plant diversity is also very high. Also in the tropics it would seem that orchid diversity is highest for epiphytes (??) with pockets of accumulated moss and humus having a fairly low pH.

I think things are a bit more complex than just pH for understanding orchid community ecology, but at the gross physiological level, most of the basic nutrients that orchids need are bioavalable around neutral pH (6-8), and for a host of reasons pot pH drops with time, so adding a mild buffer to help keep the pH in a good range longer tends to help.
 
There's pros and cons of your discusion. Just for clarification, HC03 is bicarbonate (rather than carbonate CO3). I wouldn't say most paphs are calcareous. Very few if any of the barbata and pardopetalum are found on limestone. With a few exceptions brachys and parvis are, and most coryopetalum too. The single flower strap leaves are split about 2/3 calcareous too I beleive. Roth is an odd ball being associated with serpentine (Mg Si hydroxides). I don't think paphs are found on limestone to avoid competition. The plant species list that Averyanov includes in his descriptions of paph habitats is pretty impressive, and here in TN (karst limestone country), plant diversity is also very high. Also in the tropics it would seem that orchid diversity is highest for epiphytes (??) with pockets of accumulated moss and humus having a fairly low pH.

I think things are a bit more complex than just pH for understanding orchid community ecology, but at the gross physiological level, most of the basic nutrients that orchids need are bioavalable around neutral pH (6-8), and for a host of reasons pot pH drops with time, so adding a mild buffer to help keep the pH in a good range longer tends to help.
I'm reading the same thing I stated, just in a different order! The only thing missing is "this is my opinion" or facts with references. I'm not sure whether you're trying to add to the conversation or insult me.:confused:
 
No insult intended, just trying to increase accuracy, and lend other ideas to the discussion.

1) There is a real difference between carbonate (CO3) and bicarbonate(HCO3)
2) When I did a rough count of calcareous to non-calcareous paph species it came out to about 33 to 42 (will depend on who's taxonomy used), lots of barbata species which are not found in association to outcrops of any particular geology, so I wouldn't say that most paphs are found in association with limestone outcrops.
3) I disagree with the idea that limestone outcrops are particularly challenging for plants to take advantage of leaving them available to fringe species like orchids. Actually I think they are very productive and diverse areas that allow for a higher number of rare plant species that captalize on deceptive pollination systems.
4) I agree totally that pot pH is an important parameter to consider in paph culture, and in closed pot culture the pH will drop with time and cause problems.
 
Is there a list somewhere of the species that benefit from limestone and/or bonemeal? If so, please provide a link if you have one. Thanks!
 
Is there a list somewhere of the species that benefit from limestone and/or bonemeal? If so, please provide a link if you have one. Thanks!
Nik,
I was actually trying to put one together for myself. I will take time tonight and put together what I have found so far.
 

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