Neofinetia Tiger Leaf Breeding

[Happypaphy7]

I was wondering about how to keep the variegation stable.
I read that in the beginning, the tiger leaf varieties arose as random mutation from different (I would think non-tiger) varieties.

I also read that tiger leaf varieties breed true via seed propagation.
This is where I am most curious.
Is the mutation on each variety stable enough that they produce the same (I'm not talking 100% same, of course, but to a degree where they resemble the parent enough that they can also be called the same variety)??

Then would they cross siblings to achieve this?

Selfing does not happen often on neos I also heard. Not sure if it is true.

Also, any variegation I assum is recessive gene?

Any info will be appreciated.

 

[JAB]

Interesting subject. I love the damn Neo's but have absolutely zero luck with them.

 

[Happypaphy7]

Well, that is unfortunate.
There are quite a few good neo growers on this forum, so why don't you post how you dealt with yours and what happened to them, then hopefully others can help you with the proper culture.

It is also possible that you had a crappy plant to begin with, which happens sometimes.

Or, you had expensive varieties that are tougher to grow?

Let's keep this topic on a separate thread.

 

[Lanmark]

I can't answer your questions specifically, Happy, but I can offer this bit of information: I have a plant called Hana-Kin which is a cross of Hanagoromo (a tiger stripe variety) with Kinkounishiki (a shima variety). It has lovely Tiger (Tora) variegation and bright salmon pink root tips.

 

[myxodex]

I'm very interested in this question as I've done a cross with Hanagoromo. We can be fairly confident that the shima types are chimeric variegation and that the mutation is carried by the chloroplast DNA and so follows maternal inheritance. With the tiger stripes we have little to go on, other than in many of these the mutation appears to be conditional and so dependent on light or temperature. If we grow a tiger stripe in low light it can lose the yellow segments. I have a Hanagoromo that does this.

Another thing is that in a number of the tiger varieties which also produce anthocyanins, the roots are often pink, orange or red. My take on root colour is that the common "mud brown" roots are a combination of chlorophyll (green), xanthophyll (yellow) and anthocyanin (red or magenta). The first two, green and yellow, are chloroplast dependent. If chloroplasts do not develop or don't functionally mature in the root tips in an anthocyanin producing variety you get ruby roots (eg. Houmeiden). If the chloroplasts in the root tips produce xanthophyll but not chlorophyll, you get salmon pink, orange or red root tips depending on the relative amounts of xanthophyll and anthocyanin.

Certainly the mutation in Hanagoromo affects chlorophyll synthesis, and hence chloroplast function, but given that most of the genes needed for chloroplast function are nuclear, the chances of a chloroplast mutation and hence maternal inheritance are low based on simple arithmetic. There are also the white tiger types like Jitsugetsukoo, that also lack xanthophyll (yellow) production and are light sensitive in the white areas, and it is possible that in these the chloroplasts fail to mature properly (or have delayed development) in the white areas. This is all speculation of course.

 

[myxodex]

I can't answer your questions specifically, Happy, but I can offer this bit of information: I have a plant called Hana-Kin which is a cross of Hanagoromo (a tiger stripe variety) with Kinkounishiki (a shima variety). It has lovely Tiger (Tora) variegation and bright salmon pink root tips.

For me this is very interesting information. If the all the seedlings from this cross were like yours and Hanagoromo was the pod parent then it would be consistent with a chloroplast mutation (although not proof of this). I crossed Hanagoromo (pod) with Hien (a chunky red type; pollen donor) and I've just replated some seedlings onto a new replate medium recipe. Unfortunately, I haven't yet cracked the replating medium and the replating step gives me higher rates of contamination..., but hopefully I can get some seedlings out. I did this cross out of curiousity and in the outside chance that a chloroplast mutation might be involved. So there is a tiny chance to get a tiger stripe with red roots due to the high anthocyanin production in Hien. Another thing with Hanagoromo is that in mine the flower stalks emerge as a pale orange or apricot colour and only develop a bit of green as they age, so it could turn out that the cross gives red flower stalks (at least initially).

Even if it doesn't work out like this, my little journey into neo propagation has already been fascinating and it's very rewarding to see protocorms producing their first little leaves and roots.

 

[Ozpaph]

thanks for this very interesting info.

 

[Happypaphy7]

Thanks for the input.

My Kinroukaku has yellow leaves with ruby root tips.
Flower stalks are dark initially and stays that way.

I thought about crossing it with bean leaf. The thing is my Tamakongu was having issues and I threw it away. need a replacement.
Also, I don't really care for the flowering habit of such variety.

Another thing is crossing tiger leaf with something like Shutennou since Shutennou has ample red color everywhere, flower, leaf base, and root tips.

Wouldn't be surprised if these have already been tried given that both are common varieties.

 

[myxodex]

Thanks for the input.

My Kinroukaku has yellow leaves with ruby root tips.
Flower stalks are dark initially and stays that way.

I thought about crossing it with bean leaf. The thing is my Tamakongu was having issues and I threw it away. need a replacement.
Also, I don't really care for the flowering habit of such variety.

Another thing is crossing tiger leaf with something like Shutennou since Shutennou has ample red color everywhere, flower, leaf base, and root tips.

Wouldn't be surprised if these have already been tried given that both are common varieties.

I don't have Kinroukaku but ruby root tips sound cool. The only ruby root type I have is Houmeiden. My Hanagoromo has salmon pink root tips. There was a local (London) Korean neo vendor who was selling a tiger type called Joogennohikari that has bright orange-red roots and a graceful style of growth. I was tempted but didn't buy one and lost my opportunity because he's packed up business it seems.
I have read that the colour of root tips in these tiger varieties does vary a bit from plant to plant, and presumably also on the growth conditions.

As for the bean leaf types, I would recommend Ootakamaru. This one grows well, clumps up nicely, has standard fragrant flowers and blooms regularly unlike some other bean leafs I have.

The reason I chose Hien rather than my Shutennou, is that my Shutennou is not a particularly good specimen. I've noticed a huge variation in Shutennou, some are very good, but mine is just not a good one. It's flowers are white, have very curled-up form and the spikes tend to clump so the flowers are not spread out. This left my choice between Koukakuden and Hien, both have good presentation of flowers on the spike. My Hien has slightly stronger colour and a robust overall form, maybe not as graceful as my Koukakuden with it's long curving leaves.
I've also made a cross between these two reds, and this has produced the fastest developing and most robust seedlings of the crosses I've made. I just need improve my replating medium/system.

I need to sort out my camera, or borrow one, so I can start a thread about my neo propagation attempts.

 

[Lanmark]

Hey myx, that "Joogennohikari" also goes by "Jomonohikari" or "Joumonohikari" and similar spellings. I still see it offered from time to time in USA so hopefully one will show up on your side of the pond again someday. Barampung.com in S. Korea offers it frequently as well. It's a nice variety. Grows well too.