Paphiopedilum rothschildianum with true pedigree, second flowering

[Tony]

I would be curious to know how many AOS awarded roths are the progeny of these OI crosses. If the labels are true and we're just seeing the wrong end of the bell curve here surely there must be some top quality plants garnering recognition as well?

 

[dodidoki]

Pedigree is just one thing....there are many pure quality individuals from good quality parents. I m sure that a real mm x mm cross can produce bad quality plants A real good division has high prices for this reason.

 

[DrLeslieEe]

Here’s one that ChingHua displayed at the Montreal show… other than the crimped petals from transport, what says the crowd?

 

[emydura]

I would be curious to know how many AOS awarded roths are the progeny of these OI crosses. If the labels are true and we're just seeing the wrong end of the bell curve here surely there must be some top quality plants garnering recognition as well?

This was an OI seedling of mine that got an AM award. Possibly has the potential to be upgraded in future.

https://www.slippertalk.com/threads/paphiopedilum-rothschildianum-anisha-am-aoc.52235/

 

[Tony]

That's a nice one, must be an older cross because it wasn't listed on the OI site in the last several years before Sam shut down.

 

[Ozpaph]

that Ching Hua roth would go straight to the sales bench

 

[Tony]

Here’s one that ChingHua displayed at the Montreal show… other than the crimped petals from transport, what says the crowd?

Society raffle table fodder.

 

[Paphman910]

Here is another cross from Sam. I think it's a very early one.View attachment 46154View attachment 46153

That is breeding by Norito Hasegawa, not Orchid Inn.

 

[Duck Slipper]

That is breeding by Norito Hasegawa, not Orchid Inn.

It looks like a OI tag...and number.
While visiting Sam, years ago, he told me he judged the CC Roth when it received...whatever it received and that was how he got the pollen.

 

[SlipperKing]

It looks like a OI tag...and number.
While visiting Sam, years ago, he told me he judged the CC Roth when it received...whatever it received and that was how he got the pollen.

Interesting David. Norito used Jamboree in some form or fashion as a clonal name allot. Those two probably worked a deal out.

 

[SelectOrchids]

So let me understand the general ideas going through this thread.

First, if a roth is better than what Xavier has, and there are many I’ve seen his photos and I am not impressed, it must be a hybrid and the breeder/owner a liar and a fraud. Second, Taiwanese roth’s made with Mt. Millais surely are not, as it is either stated or implied that no plant was ever in Japan nor Taiwan and thus, if you want a roth made with Mt. Millais you can only get those from Xavier. Third, regardless of culture, plant selection, and genetic variability, Xavier is somehow qualified (self anointed? A legend in his own mind?) to tell you if the listed parents of your roth are accurate or not, thus resulting in direct or implied statements that the breeders, again, are liars and frauds. Am I understand all this correctly?

Dear Frank,

I would be very curious to see how your breeding lines of rothschildianum or even Paphiopedilum look like if you don't mind?

It is not a matter of a roth better than what I have, so far from Orchid Inn nothing bloomed better until now than a pot plant roth. I do not, luckily, have to be jealous. As for the many you have seen, you do not have to be impressed, just show all the great roths you raised from seed and bloomed, please. The World awaits that !

As for the Mt Millais, the Japanese got it, the US as well, and I tracked the plants out of curiosity. Plant selection and genetic variability has nothing to do, if you look at the rothschildianum 'Dark Angel' x 'Howard Martin' posted by Elite Orchids, vs several of the Orchid Inn plants, you do, hopefully, not need to have a PhD to realize there is a huge problem. The DA x HM are all consistent with their parents, none of the Orchid Inn bloomed is. So you can, as I said before, discard plant culture as a critera, they were grown by the same person, in the same condition. Plant selection and genetic variability? 3 DA x HM looking like the parents in a way or another. Several OI bloomed, none look even close to the parents.

I do imply that some breeders are indeed liars and frauds, it is quite well known as well around. Because I bloomed for sure more Paph seedlings of many crosses than you, or than most hobby market professional growers. Have a nice day!

 

[dodidoki]

Can i protect Xavier 's appointment? Eg. look at dogs...dog is a species, canis canis....but there are many variety all of the world... you can get a dog from street for free, you can get a good variety for a little money( eg. a cane corso), you can get a child for higer price , if the child is originated from judged parents ( eg. all parents has cacib certicication), or you can buy (or not....) a real cacib certificated dog for very high price....not the same....dog has no division...plant can....that is the difference..

 

[Tony]

I have lost confidence in Orchid Inn roths given my own experience blooming them out and what I've seen posted, but for anyone who still believes they're worth the space I'll sell my remaining unbloomed plants at OI's list price.

 

[Duck Slipper]

I have quite a few of Sam's Roths. also...
I have bloomed out some very good OI Roths, petal width and flower count excellent for a first bloom, the best were not a Raptor cross. I have not bloomed out any of his King Kongs yet. Fingers crossed on those as I have quite a few. Talking about Roths with Sam, he told me he did not trust Taiwan. Im guessing this false pedigree issue could very well be the reason why. He also got visibly agitated discussing flasking services, asked who I used and said do not send a flasking service any names and to code the specie names.
Tony, what is your Grodan/Perlite ratio?

 

[Tony]

Tony, what is your Grodan/Perlite ratio?

About 60/40.

 

[emydura]

I have quite a few of Sam's Roths. also...
I have bloomed out some very good OI Roths, petal width and flower count excellent for a first bloom, the best were not a Raptor cross. I have not bloomed out any of his King Kongs yet. Fingers crossed on those as I have quite a few. Talking about Roths with Sam, he told me he did not trust Taiwan. Im guessing this false pedigree issue could very well be the reason why. He also got visibly agitated discussing flasking services, asked who I used and said do not send a flasking service any names and to code the specie names.
Tony, what is your Grodan/Perlite ratio?

I have a flask of King Kong x Humongous that are growing well. Kiwi said that Sam had told him he had very high hopes for this cross. I would have thought this roth cross was legitimate as both parents are from his own breeding. If it was true that Sam was a bit of a fraudster, it wouldn't make much sense to sell a cross with parents no one has heard of. I guess time will tell.

 

[SelectOrchids]

I have a flask of King Kong x Humongous that are growing well. Kiwi said that Sam had told him he had very high hopes for this cross. I would have thought this roth cross was legitimate as both parents are from his own breeding. If it was true that Sam was a bit of a fraudster, it wouldn't make much sense to sell a cross with parents no one has heard of. I guess time will tell.

That depends, the names are 'stunning', and if you remember well, the Orchid Zone sold rothschildianum with parents that no one has ever seen in flower or heard of ( 'Colossus' comes to mind...).

Usually if the parents are excellent, they should take a photo of them, and say, well that's King Kong, that's Humongous, here are the photos... Otherwise I can sell rothschildianum 'Best in the world' x '50cm and counting'...

 

[monocotman]

I know that this is slightly off topic but if you want to see current Japanese cutting edge roth breeding…..
https://www.tokyoorchidnursery.com/#

 

[Ozpaph]

and that 'Black Vision' futher down the page is really nice, too

 

[emydura]

That depends, the names are 'stunning', and if you remember well, the Orchid Zone sold rothschildianum with parents that no one has ever seen in flower or heard of ( 'Colossus' comes to mind...).

Usually if the parents are excellent, they should take a photo of them, and say, well that's King Kong, that's Humongous, here are the photos... Otherwise I can sell rothschildianum 'Best in the world' x '50cm and counting'...

Well Sam did send me a photo of King Kong. Assuming it was legitimate, it looked pretty good. Seven large very dark flowers on a first flowering seedling.