Phrag amazonica

[Achamore]

Here's a good one for discussion, I would wager. I bought this a few days ago, from the same woman who sold me the Raymond Faroult. Now some folk say this is a variety of richteri, others that it is a variety of pearcei, and yet to my eye this particular specimen doesn't look like either of those.

Sue and I have also had some discussion as to whether it should be called "amazonica" or "amazonicum". Any views?

 

[Berthold]

Sue and I have also had some discussion as to whether it should be called "amazonica" or "amazonicum". Any views?

What is the opinion of Sue?

amazonicum would be correct, the same sex as the genus

 

[eggshells]

Is there any paper about Phrag. amazonica? It is the first time I have heard about it.

 

[Rob Zuiderwijk]

As far as I know Phrag. amazonica hort. is a tradename and therefor synonym of Phrag. richteri (or Phrag. ×richteri depending what view you follow).
I agree with you that the plant you show does not look like a "regular" Phrag. richteri .

It is however a very nice flower.

All the best,

Rob Z.

 

[Achamore]

What is the opinion of Sue?

amazonicum would be correct, the same sex as the genus

She agreed with your point above. Yet all listings I have seen refer to amazonica, the feminine form.

 

[Achamore]

Here's the richteri I got from Ecuagenera, which I photographed in August. As Rob says, the amazonica doesn't look much like this richteri. The amazonica is also a good bit bigger.

 

[NYEric]

green hybrid!

 

[SlipperFan]

Definitely a hybrid. Rob is correct about the name amazonica. I wonder if someone is giving the name Amazonica to a hybrid? If so, it's not registered. Nice flower, at any rate.

 

[abax]

I love the long, twisty petals on the first one. It's
gorgeous. I see that I need a really good book on
Phrags. in English. There's sooo much I don't know!

 

[troy]

Great color and shape!!! How big is the plant?

 

[Achamore]

I just measured the bloom of the amazonicum. The dorsal sepal is 55mm long and the petals are 110mm long. The richteri isn't in bloom at the moment, but there is another bud coming along. My recollection is that the richteri is about 2/3's the size of this bloom of the amazonicum. (I'm favouring the masculine ending, as the logic is there from Sue.)

The leaves reach a maximum length of about 42cm (16.5").

If this is a hybrid, then of what? The only likely candidate is Phragmipedium Grassau, but I can't find any photos online to compare. Sue has no further details of when and where she bought the plant.

 

[eteson]

Richterii is the natural hybrid between pearcei and boissierianum and Taras the man made one. Olaf described also something called Phrag merinoi that at the end is the same.
Richterii can be very variable because one of the parents (boissierianum) is also very variable (some people even split boissierianum in three species). Your first picture seems to me also Richterii
IMHO we should not use Amazonica anymore.

 

[Achamore]

Well, I have grown boissierianum and richteri, but have not seen any specimens that would produce this as a cross.

Here it is a bit backlit, as I felt there were qualities that the other photos didn't bring out.

 

[trdyl]

That is so pretty!

 

[eteson]

So nice! Not sure what do you mean...
This one is in flower right now in my greenhouse. It is pearcei (pod parent) x boissierianum.

 

[17andgrowing]

That's lovely.

 

[SlipperFan]

Pretty much look the same to me.

 

[Achamore]

Pretty much look the same to me.

I agree. Thank you, that pretty much clarifies the matter..! I hadn't seen that cross before.

 

[Rob Zuiderwijk]

To avoid misunderstandings first of all, no offence to anyone intended. Anyone is entitled to his own opinion.

When it comes to the flower shown by Don I still think that Eliseo is mistaken in thinking it is a richteri. The photo Eliseo published I think confirms my believes. In Don's plant the shape of the staminodal shield is different from what one would expect from a richteri. Second the lateral petals are very long and they lack the (how do you call that properly in English) curled edges which are characteristic for boissierianum and its hybrids, and which are clearly present in Eliseo's plant. Also, but that is more of a gut feeling, the more elongated shape of and dot patern on the centre of the lip reminds me more of longifolium than of boissierianum and/or pearcei.

All in all, IMHO the flower shown by Don shows more longifolium influence and no boissierianum influence. But then again, what do I know.

As I said in my earlier post in this thread what ever it is Don, it is a beautifull plant.

All the best,

Rob Zuiderwijk

 

[Achamore]

Good points Rob..!

Anyone know of a photo of longifolium x richteri?