K
keithrs
Guest
I was wondering if y'all soak your bark in Ca/Mg. If so, How long do you soak it for?
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I use Orchiata, which is treated with dolomite solutions, so an additional additive is unnecessary, but if i was starting from scratch, I's use a teaspoon each of calcium nitrate and magnesium sulfate dissolved in a gallon of HOT water, and soak at least overnight.
K
keithrs
Guest
I have some for bark left over from before my orchiata days... Will Ca/Mg supplement work instead of calcium nitrate and Epsom salt... I believe it's Ca carbonate and Mg carbonate, but don't quote me on that!
Rick
Well-Known Member
I think you can still find this protocol on the Antec Orchids reading room site for conditioning CHC.
Rick
Well-Known Member
The calnitrate and mgso4 are more soluble and probably work faster.
I beilive the Orchiata method is to compost the bark with dolomitic lime mixed in (which is similar to using carbonate salts of Ca/Mg)
K
keithrs
Guest
Talking to a rep from a supplier for orchiata.... they soak it for a month!?!
Is it worth doing?
Is it worth doing?
Rick
Well-Known Member
I haven't been using Orchiata so can't tell you there.
I think its worthwhile to do the soak on CHC (but doesn't take a whole month).
I think in the long run it doesn't make any difference if you use a high K feed.
I think its worthwhile to do the soak on CHC (but doesn't take a whole month).
I think in the long run it doesn't make any difference if you use a high K feed.
That is not a soak, as in "submerged". My understanding is that they wet down the composting piles with dolomite solutions.
K
keithrs
Guest
Correct Ray.... They "soak" big piles of bark in a dolomite solution just enough to wet the pile to cause the pile(s) to heat up to kill pathogens and to age the bark.
I am on a trip, but that's not the way it is done at all for Orchiata:
- We get a pile of wet pinus radiata bark, and the pile is 'aged' with only its own heat and humidity. The windrows are turned several times, over several months. The very high heat and humidity inside the windrow will remove and neutralize the resins, the terpens, as well as some others compounds, from the bark. Because those compounds are removed, the bark becomes water absorbent. The temperature goes so high in the windrows that all insects are killed if any, and most fungus/bacteria/etc...
- The bark is screened to the different sizes, using a very sophisticated ( I think unique) equipment, screens for the sizes, then another set of machines to remove the stones, bark, wood, etc... After the screens, each size of Orchiata has its own set of equipment, cleaners, etc...
- The pH of is then checked, and the Orchiata at that point is still kid of 'moist'. Then the lime is added according to a grid (made after a lot of analysis over the years and decades), to stabilize the pH on the long run and neutralize any residual acidity. Another set of machinery is used at that stage. The lime sticks to the orchiata chips, goes as well in the pores, and has a very long lasting effect.
- Then, the pH of the bark is checked again, the batches are analyzed for another set of parameters, the orchiata is then packed.
It is very difficult to do with bark other than Pinus radiata ( and only some specific areas, Pinus radiata grown in Chile is not suitable as an example...), because the process is very demanding to the physical structure of the bark, most would 'delaminate', become like confetti ...
Nearly all the other pine bark are hydrophobic on their outer side, and inside, so soaking or liming fresh, not processed bark, has a temporary benefit. First, the lime will stay on the outer surface of the bark, not neutralizing the acidity inside, and because most bark have a smooth surface, a fair part of the lime will be washed out... After some months in the pot, the bark will start to become wet to the core, and releasing acids...
- We get a pile of wet pinus radiata bark, and the pile is 'aged' with only its own heat and humidity. The windrows are turned several times, over several months. The very high heat and humidity inside the windrow will remove and neutralize the resins, the terpens, as well as some others compounds, from the bark. Because those compounds are removed, the bark becomes water absorbent. The temperature goes so high in the windrows that all insects are killed if any, and most fungus/bacteria/etc...
- The bark is screened to the different sizes, using a very sophisticated ( I think unique) equipment, screens for the sizes, then another set of machines to remove the stones, bark, wood, etc... After the screens, each size of Orchiata has its own set of equipment, cleaners, etc...
- The pH of is then checked, and the Orchiata at that point is still kid of 'moist'. Then the lime is added according to a grid (made after a lot of analysis over the years and decades), to stabilize the pH on the long run and neutralize any residual acidity. Another set of machinery is used at that stage. The lime sticks to the orchiata chips, goes as well in the pores, and has a very long lasting effect.
- Then, the pH of the bark is checked again, the batches are analyzed for another set of parameters, the orchiata is then packed.
It is very difficult to do with bark other than Pinus radiata ( and only some specific areas, Pinus radiata grown in Chile is not suitable as an example...), because the process is very demanding to the physical structure of the bark, most would 'delaminate', become like confetti ...
Nearly all the other pine bark are hydrophobic on their outer side, and inside, so soaking or liming fresh, not processed bark, has a temporary benefit. First, the lime will stay on the outer surface of the bark, not neutralizing the acidity inside, and because most bark have a smooth surface, a fair part of the lime will be washed out... After some months in the pot, the bark will start to become wet to the core, and releasing acids...
K
keithrs
Guest
Thanks for the clarification Roth.
Great explanation! Thanks for the clarification.
(Don't ya just love it when "fact" emerges!)
(Don't ya just love it when "fact" emerges!)
Stone
Well-Known Member
Debco, which is just down the road from me and produces a large proportion of p/media including orchid in Australia treats P. radiata just as Roth explained
If your're interested in doing it yourself, here is the procedure from ''Growing Media'' by Handrek and Black
1 Make up 40lt of mix
2 Add any amedements such as superphosphate, potassium sulphate, ammonium nitrrate iron sulphate and trace elements as needed.
3 Divide mix into 4 samples of 10Lt each
4 Add ground liming materials (Dolomite or 50/50 dolomite/limestone) at 1,2,4 and 6 g/L mix thoroughly.
5 Add water to the four samples until they are a little wetter than you would have at potting. Mix thoroughly.
6 Store samples in shade in plastic bags.
7 Remix after a few days and again a week later. The pH should reach equalibrium in about 2 weeks
8 2 weeks after starting, mix again and remove small amounts for pH determination.
You can leave out 2 and 3 but its easy to overshoot the lime.
Aim for a pH of between 6 and 7. 6 for nitrate, 7 for ammonium.
Enjoy!
They also say you should check pH of your pots every 6 months or sooner as it can drift down or up depending on your water and fertilizer types. But who actually does that?
If your're interested in doing it yourself, here is the procedure from ''Growing Media'' by Handrek and Black
1 Make up 40lt of mix
2 Add any amedements such as superphosphate, potassium sulphate, ammonium nitrrate iron sulphate and trace elements as needed.
3 Divide mix into 4 samples of 10Lt each
4 Add ground liming materials (Dolomite or 50/50 dolomite/limestone) at 1,2,4 and 6 g/L mix thoroughly.
5 Add water to the four samples until they are a little wetter than you would have at potting. Mix thoroughly.
6 Store samples in shade in plastic bags.
7 Remix after a few days and again a week later. The pH should reach equalibrium in about 2 weeks
8 2 weeks after starting, mix again and remove small amounts for pH determination.
You can leave out 2 and 3 but its easy to overshoot the lime.
Aim for a pH of between 6 and 7. 6 for nitrate, 7 for ammonium.
Enjoy!
They also say you should check pH of your pots every 6 months or sooner as it can drift down or up depending on your water and fertilizer types. But who actually does that?
emydura
Well-Known Member
That would explain why my Paphs seem to grow better in Debco bark than other brands.
