Strap leaf paphs, black rot creeping up from roots (?)

[D-novice]

Attached are photos of a very healthy (I thought!) Paph Mount Avalon; and a struggling Paph Wayne Booth. The Mount Avalon just finished blooming, two spikes, ten flowers, ready to repot now and found the problem shown.

This same problem (I think) destroyed a Paph Crouching Tiger that also had an amazing set of blooms in late summer (11 flowers, 2 spikes); and has rotted out this Paph Wayne Booth, taking it from a six growth plant to a three growth plant.

Both plants continue to grow; the majority of the roots look unaffected, as you can see with Mt Avalon; and I've treated all the plants with Phyton 27, more than once for both of these

My questions:
1) Any idea what this is?
2) Should I dump these plants? It doesn't seem to be spreading aggressively; but I paid $95 for the Wayne Booth; but obviously the loss would be greater if whatever this is spread to other plants.....
3) ....the three described above are the only ones with the problem, that I know of. I have other unaffected strap leaf types. It does seem to have an affinity for blooming plants




paph mount avalon base rot?





paph mt avalon rot?




strong roots in paph mt avalon despite "problem"


Wayne Booth


wayne booth diseased




early stage?




spreading to leaves




spreading to leaves 2



Thanks for any advice / insight, especially if you KNOW what this is!

 

[NYEric]

Some people swear by Dragon"s Blood, search here for threads.

 

[Ozpaph]

Whatever the pathogen - drier and more air movement is the important point.
A good dusting of cinnamon and a fungicide would help, too.

 

[D-novice]

The onset of this may have been related to humidity - the plants were being boarded when this came on. But has anyone seen something like this be REVERSED by drier air and more air movement? I believe those are more preventive measures.

Cinnamon and "Dragon's Blood" are natural compounds and interesting. Phyton 27 is a fungicide (Copper pentasulfate or something like that). I forgot to mention that I did a Physan (quaternary ammonium chloride?) 50:50 H20 soak on the Wayne Booth.

Thanks for your advice, but one of my questions was not "What do you think I should do about this" - unless the advice is "dump them", "keep treating", "wait and see" - because my question is, given all the treatment I've done, is this just going to keep spreading when they get a little more damp, etc.

 

[gonewild]

because my question is, given all the treatment I've done, is this just going to keep spreading when they get a little more damp, etc.

If you don't kill the pathogen the plant will not likely recover by simply improving the environment.

Most likely the problem is a fungal root rot. To protect your other plants isolate the sick ones so that drainage or splashing water cant spread to a healthy plant.

No need to destroy the plants for fear of infecting your whole collection, just treat them as sick and isolate them. Try to save them by doing something.

If it were my plant I would remove it from the pot and carefully cut off all roots that are not healthy. If that means all the roots so be it.
Then rinse the plant thoroughly under running water.
Then dip the plant in a bath of 10% bleach solution (that is 1 part bleach and 9 parts water).
Then dip the plant in a good systemic fungicide solution. I like Benalate and Ridomi if you have access to those.
Then let the plant air dry until all free water has evaporated.
Then if it has several live roots just repot it into fresh mix.
If it does not have any roots at all treat the base of the plant with a rooting hormone that contains IBA, NAA or IAA (or a combination).
If it is rootless pot in a very loose media that holds moisture but also has a lot of air space like loosely packed sphagnum moss.
Then I cross my fingers.

I have used diluted Dragon's Blood as a root drench on small seedlings and it has been effective for root rot. But I have not tried it as a soak on a plant like yours but in the absence of a good fungicide I would use it. And If I suspected the infection was bacterial Dragons Blood would be my only choice.

 

[gonewild]

OOPs.

I did not answer your question. Given the small amount of treatment you have done the plant will probably die.

 

[Gilda]

Isolate , treat as Lance said, but don't give up !!! I see new root tips on your Mt Avalon....there is hope !

 

[Ozpaph]

The onset of this may have been related to humidity - the plants were being boarded when this came on. But has anyone seen something like this be REVERSED by drier air and more air movement? I believe those are more preventive measures.

If you DONT fix the conditions it will keep coming back. I do believe that it helps limit the infection if you dry them a bit and lots of air.

 

[D-novice]

I board the plants two months out of the year, that is when these problems started. It is a more humid environment, and there are more plants around, so it's like a hospital for people - a bug magnet.

Gone Wild - yes the plant will eventually die, just like all of us! And, you did answer my question, in fact. My response preceded yours.

I will keep trying. The pot growers have many products available, people don't want to inhale fungicides, insecticides etc, so I'm going to try some of that.

Thanks to all!

 

[SlipperFan]

There is one thing I didn't see mentioned: If you are able to stop the spread of whatever it is, that will be good. But you will nor reverse the damage.

Good luck, and welcome to Slippertalk!

 

[D-novice]

If you don't kill the pathogen the plant will not likely recover by simply improving the environment.

Most likely the problem is a fungal root rot. To protect your other plants isolate the sick ones so that drainage or splashing water cant spread to a healthy plant.

No need to destroy the plants for fear of infecting your whole collection, just treat them as sick and isolate them. Try to save them by doing something.

If it were my plant I would remove it from the pot and carefully cut off all roots that are not healthy. If that means all the roots so be it.
Then rinse the plant thoroughly under running water.
Then dip the plant in a bath of 10% bleach solution (that is 1 part bleach and 9 parts water).
Then dip the plant in a good systemic fungicide solution. I like Benalate and Ridomi if you have access to those.
Then let the plant air dry until all free water has evaporated.
Then if it has several live roots just repot it into fresh mix.
If it does not have any roots at all treat the base of the plant with a rooting hormone that contains IBA, NAA or IAA (or a combination).
If it is rootless pot in a very loose media that holds moisture but also has a lot of air space like loosely packed sphagnum moss.
Then I cross my fingers.

I have used diluted Dragon's Blood as a root drench on small seedlings and it has been effective for root rot. But I have not tried it as a soak on a plant like yours but in the absence of a good fungicide I would use it. And If I suspected the infection was bacterial Dragons Blood would be my only choice.

I'm curious about the bleach:water solution. It makes sense but don't hear too much about it.

My couple of experiences with bacterial infections, it's lightning fast and by the time you know it's there it's probably too late.

 

[gonewild]

I'm curious about the bleach:water solution. It makes sense but don't hear too much about it.

My couple of experiences with bacterial infections, it's lightning fast and by the time you know it's there it's probably too late.

If the infection is bacterial then the best and fastest cure is Dragon's Blood.

The Bleach is suggested assuming it is a fungal infection and the roots are basically all dead. The chlorine in the bleach will sterilize the plant surfaces and the soft roots it penetrates.
The bleach treatment is basically what is done to sterilize explants that are put invitro for cloning. It does very little damage to living plant tissue but quickly kills pathogens on tissue surfaces. Probably considered a radical treatment by most people here.

 

[NYEric]

I've seen orchids that are over 100 years old.

 

[gonewild]

I've seen orchids that are over 100 years old.

I have a Zygo I've had over 50 years, it won't die of old age like I will.

 

[SlipperFan]

...
The bleach treatment is basically what is done to sterilize explants that are put invitro for cloning. It does very little damage to living plant tissue but quickly kills pathogens on tissue surfaces. Probably considered a radical treatment by most people here.

Not me -- I'm a believer in bleach.

 

[bigleaf]

I use Cleary 3336 broad spectrum fungicide to control fungal rot. Most of the rot is related to my growing environment - too many plants - no time to check the crown if water is still trapped and may not dry out by night fall.



I also have started to use Dragon Blood. I like it because when I see trouble plant I put drops of dragon blood into the crown, and base. Yesterday I took photo of this Paph - see the new emerging leaf. So this plant has a happy ending. But there are also ones that I wasn't able to save.

 

[D-novice]

I think several of my plants were saved by Phyton 27, which is copper based and claims to be systemic.

One problem is, in looking at my plants - if the existing damage to tissues is permanent, so that the black rot at the base of the plants is no longer active - how do I know? Do I just have to wait and see if it spreads?

In case of my Paph Avalon Mist, no leaves are damaged at all - which makes me think my treatments worked. In the case of the Wayne Booth, I'm more inclined to think it's marching on since growths have continued to show up black.

Is there any other way to determine whether it's old damage or active infection?

 

[abax]

I haven't found a problem in my greenhouse that Cleary's
or Dragon's Blood can't fix. Orthene, Cleary's and DB
should be essentials in everyone's greenhouse. These
are products that should always be on hand to take care
of problems BEFORE they get serious.