Paph gratrixianum var daoense

bench72 · Feb 3, 2008

with the couple of threads on gratrixianum... it got me thinking about a plant I have labeled Paph gratrixianum var daoense.

Now, there's a couple of things that doesn't seem to sit right...

the flower marking are a little different..

but also, I keep reading that gratrixianum is suppose to have all these colour on the base of it.. so I checked my non varietal gratrix and sure enough...

whilst the variety daoense has no colouration on the base of the leaves (well apart from the bit of brown rot.. ugh)

so, the question is, are these really the same species?

Roy · Feb 3, 2008

I just checked the web and came up with 2 pics ( quick search), the flower on yours seem correct, the first site didn't describe the plant but the second shows the plant and flower. Hopefully this link works to show you.
http://translate.google.com/transla...ult&prev=/search?q=gratrixianum+daoense&hl=en

Roy · Feb 3, 2008

Another link which shows a different color completely.
http://translate.google.com/transla...ult&prev=/search?q=gratrixianum+daoense&hl=en

Rick · Feb 3, 2008

I think we are always amazed as to how fine a line some taxonomists will draw to differentiate species in some cases, but how broad the line is for others. It appears totally inconsistent.

Given that albinos of a given species are not considered separate species from the parent species then I would agree that a reduced amount of pigment from the nominal form (which appears to be the case with daoense) would not give it separate species status.

Using the same logic gratrixianum may not even be distinct species from villosum or insigne.

Personally I think the test for species status should be based on a statistical measure of geographic isolation and pollinator specificity.

goldenrose · Feb 3, 2008

Rick said:
I think we are always amazed as to how fine a line some taxonomists will draw to differentiate species in some cases, but how broad the line is for others. It appears totally inconsistent.

Given that albinos of a given species are not considered separate species from the parent species then I would agree that a reduced amount of pigment from the nominal form (which appears to be the case with daoense) would not give it separate species status.

Using the same logic gratrixianum may not even be distinct species from villosum or insigne.

Personally I think the test for species status should be based on a statistical measure of geographic isolation and pollinator specificity.

Good point Rick, I'd have to agree. When I looked at the links Roy gave, those 2 flowers, to me, definitely favored insigne & they don't look anything like bench72's.

bench72 · Feb 4, 2008

Rick said:
I think we are always amazed as to how fine a line some taxonomists will draw to differentiate species in some cases, but how broad the line is for others. It appears totally inconsistent.

yep, that's what I thought

abax · Oct 31, 2012

Well, now I'm beginning to think my 'Wedgewood' x 'Lula
Girl' isn't a gratrix at all. It's in the process of opening and
is far darker than any of the flowers in the links. I haven't
noticed any spotting at the base of the plant, but I'll look
tomorrow. It's a first bloom plant and perhaps that makes a difference.

Brabantia · Oct 31, 2012

Looks like the same I have posted Here. It was sold as a P. villosum var. boxalii.

Paph gratrixianum var daoense

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