Hello!
I'm new to the "judging scene", so forgive me if this is somewhat of a delicate question. Is it just my imagination, or are some judging centers a lot more rigorous than others? And if so, is anyone up for naming the best of the best? If you had to recommend one judging center for a student judge to work with, which would it be?
Hello,
I don't think you will get very many replies, since you don't mention who you are, what orchids you grow, how long you've been interested in judging or anything else like that. People aren't likely to reply to someone who just pops in and then wants to start a discussion about what in the past has been a very divisive topic. Also at times people have asked questions like yours because they wanted an excuse to crab about judges not giving their plant an award. If you were able to point out the very basics of who you are and your interests, I'm sure you'll get more discussion. Also as there are people here who are judges, friends of judges or are vendors who could be negatively affected by having their comments misrepresented or misused, they may not be interested in replying.
For someone to name the best judging center, they would have had to have visited all or many of them. Probably only other judges would have this access; also some of this info would only have gotten around by word of mouth and not direct experience. My experience has been with judges from the New York Judging Center and the Montreal Judging Center. Based on my experience with members of these centers I would have no problem working with either of them as a student judge. People from both have been very friendly.
I recently sat in on a judging session with a group of senior judges who were so knowledgeable on so many levels, it blew my mind. Breadth, depth, rigor, precision, accuracy, objectivity...the total package. It occurred to me there's no way ANY of the people in that room would make the kind of Mickey Mouse mistakes outlined in the horror stories you read around the boards. So what gives?
Which judging center is the excellent one you are pointing out? Also, which ones are the ones you've noticed 'situations' with? Like people everywhere, judges and student judges are humans, and they are also volunteers that have real jobs (hopefully). Though judges are supposed to have a wide experience will as many orchids as possible, it's impossible to have access to them all. People also have their interests and personal knowledge, and also are more interested in judging the quality of the plants and not for some other sort of personal gain. Also some areas have certain genera that are more likely to show up, so that the judges would be more familiar with them. For someone to perform perfectly all the time for something that they aren't paid to do, for every genera and group of hybrids is impossible. Sometimes plants get more awards because they are very rare, or the colors are exciting. Sometimes a few awards may be given out that might be borderline if someone is trying to encourage people who are obviously not vendors, if they have done well with a plant or plants. Also maybe a certain area isn't as organized because the passage of duties from senior members of judging to newer ones wasn't very smooth or there have been personality issues. Every place and group and person is different, and a new day brings new challenges. It would be surprising at best if all centers had perfect records, or even really good ones, all the time. Plus, to be fair, some people really get into being a judge for the ego part and being important, and go too far along these lines. Thankfully I have not had this experience at all with the NY or Montreal centers, actually much the opposite.
They also seemed impossibly tough: I had a nagging suspicion one of the plants might have been awarded if only the grower had gone somewhere else! Which brings up another interesting question...is there anything to keep growers from "gaming the system" and deliberately going to a judging center they think will be more favorable? Oh well, not looking to bash anybody here so please change all names to protect the guilty.
Thanks again and I look forward to your comments!
If you have a region that has alot of vendors, then there will be a higher amount of very good plants and flowers that get shown. Consequently, it will be harder for many plants to get awards. Also if the genera in those areas are plants that have had many awards, it is likely that there have been many high awards already given. If there have been some fcc's or very high am's for a certain plant, and you have a very nice plant being shown but it's score will be only an hcc or low am, it's much less likely that this plant will receive an award. the bar has been set higher because of the number and quality of awards already given. also if a center doesn't usually have certain genera that have been awarded, it may be less likely that those judges have seen good examples of these plants, and maybe a little more inconsistency in having it judged. also if there are very very many plants that have to be screened for judging there may be high time pressures to get everything taken care of in a timely fashion. where an area doesn't have many vendors, the number of awardable plants may be much lower, and the judges more likely to give lower awards than you might find in other areas.
...and about 'gaming the system', as far as I know, centers are formed in areas that have orchids that need to be judged. if you live in or near an area, you take your plants there to be judged. that's the system. I've never heard anyone say that you shouldn't go outside an area to have plants judged or that there is anything unethical about doing so. some centers may have less plants that are brought for judging, or they allow people to sit in on the judging process so that owners can have an idea about how and why things get awards, and also the process would be more 'transparent', which would make it less likely that someone could have a problem thinking that they were unfairly treated (or their plant in this case). If plants were checked out more quickly and efficiently and the owner could be on their way faster, that might be an incentive to go to another center. Also if judges in a certain area are more versed in a certain genera an owner might be more interested in having their plants checked out by those that know them best, rather than take the chance that it might get passed by because the judges weren't as familiar with them. And hey, if someone wants to spend the time and effort to go out of their area to have their plants judged, why would someone care? It's their problem with the expense involved and if they want to spend that money more power to them. Personally I would appreciate if someone let me know that my plant/flowers were really nice, but since I'm not a vendor who could possibly profit from having awards placed on my plants, having one of my plants receive an AOS award is really an un-necessary expense! ..or at the least I'm not expecting or desiring it, so would have no interest in that expense. Also, the 'award curse' has been in effect with one of my plants that received an AOS award (a phal braceana that received a chm); it and all of it's offspring are dead (I believe there are no seedling survivors) so I'm not likely to want an award anytime soon!
So what are your opinions about the questions you've brought up? For someone to drop these questions without stating their own specific opinions may lead us to believe that you might be looking for a pot to get stirred, or create some contention. Others aren't likely to put their opinion on the line, if the person asking questions isn't willing to state theirs (a politely stated observation/opinion).
