A possibly interesting idea, what do you all think?

[southernbelle]

Incredible. You're so highly systematic. How much time do you enjoy with your plants daily?

Usually 30 min- 1 hr for daily watering. Of course that does not include any repotting.

 

[southernbelle]

What are Safari granules? Sounds interesting since I’ve been seeing a fungus gnat or two.

Safari is a systemic granular insecticide. Google it, I don’t remember the chemical in it. It is very broad-spectrum and kills just about everything, According to its label.

 

[southernbelle]

What are Safari granules? Sounds interesting since I’ve been seeing a fungus gnat or two.

I don’t think I would use it for a fungus gnats only. Those are pretty easy to mostly control with sticky traps. I would reserve Safari for scale, mites, maybe a bad infestation of mealy bugs. Something that was not easily eradicated.

 

[Carmella.carey]

I don’t pick up a whole tray. I pick up plants individually, place them on a tray by the sink, then water over the sink, let them drain and return them to their places. The trays on the tables collect the minimal water that is still draining, but dries quickly because of the fans circulating the air. I usually have between 10 and 20 plants that I water each day. I use an app called Errands and color coded tags so they are in the app by (tray) #1 RED and I pull them that way. The advantage of this app is it automatically repeats from the day an item is checked off the list, not the day it was scheduled to be done, if I’m adjusting a day or so. Small 2” seedlings water every 2-3 days, 10” catts can go 10-12 days depending on time of year. I try to check those scheduled for ‘tomorrow’, especially during the warm growing season to make sure I don’t need to adjust by a day. Here is a closer photo of the sink area:
View attachment 35063
They rotate from the tray on the left counter 4 or 5 at a time are watered over the sink (foliage is kept dry) then placed on the drain board on the right if need be for space, then are returned to their spots. My trays are labeled by color of their tags, so the always go back in the same place with colored tag facing front so light orientation does not change (for the most part). It sounds complicated, but it’s really not (once I got it figured out.) I usually spend 30-60 minutes a day watering, checking things, disinfecting tools. This enables me to closely examine plants each time they are watered and and nip any disease or insect problems in the bud. Disease is very rare as humidity is controlled and foliage stays dry. Now that I use Safari granules (mostly) sprinkled on top of mix for pests when needed, pests are easy to control. Scale and fungus gnats had been my nemesis, but that makes them easy to control as I can’t spray without moving plants outside which is a pain!! Oh, I also use stretchy ties to train catts to grow vertically instead of reaching out sideways, so they take less space.

So you use Safari too I got a little confused when I found out that there's water soluble and granular forms. I spray my plants with it.
Patrick

 

[Carmella.carey]

I don’t think I would use it for a fungus gnats only. Those are pretty easy to mostly control with sticky traps. I would reserve Safari for scale, mites, maybe a bad infestation of mealy bugs. Something that was not easily eradicated.

I agree, its pretty expensive for something like knats.
Patrick

 

[southernbelle]

So you use Safari too I got a little confused when I found out that there's water soluble and granular forms. I spray my plants with it.
Patrick

I think we are talking about the same thing, Patrick. The granular (water solvable) is what you would use to dissolve in water to spray. A grower told me to use it dry, sprinkled on top of wet mix (bark, it is approved for drenching). Then, every time you water more releases. Sort of like imidacloprid, which was talked about at our meeting being used that way by Chadwick’s. It covers all insect’s except mites (suppresses thrips). Imidacloprid covers thrips. If I need more than one application on a heavily infested plant, I switch to imidacloprid so resistance does not occur. For mites I use Avid.

 

[Carmella.carey]

I think we are talking about the same thing, Patrick. The granular (water solvable) is what you would use to dissolve in water to spray. A grower told me to use it dry, sprinkled on top of wet mix (bark, it is approved for drenching). Then, every time you water more releases. Sort of like imidacloprid, which was talked about at our meeting being used that way by Chadwick’s. It covers all insect’s except mites (suppresses thrips). Imidacloprid covers thrips. If I need more than one application on a heavily infested plant, I switch to imidacloprid so resistance does not occur. For mites I use Avid.

Stan from the VOS told me it worked well sprinkled on the top of the media. I spray my plants with it but I think I'll try it like this now that I know two people who use it this way.
Patrick

 

[southernbelle]

So far I’m a month since application and have 2 plants that have required re-application. These two were the worst infestations of scale. I’ve seen very minor recurrence Lon them, but treated again. I probably should have retreated at 21 days per label. Next treatment if needed will be imidacloprid. . Stan Baker is who told me about this, as well. He uses ¼ teas per plant. I used ¼ teas for 4-5”; ½ for 6-7; ¾ for 8; 1 teas for 9-10 inch. It takes that much for me to cover the surface of the bark reasonably well. I treated everything once because many had scale to one degree or another. I’ve been fighting it for 2 years trying to spray affected plants, but there were always some I missed.

 

[cnycharles]

If you are trying to use a systemic for scale and mealy bug, then a good plan would be to have a container to dunk and hold the whole plant into. Granules on top repeatedly is just breeding resistant pests. If you dunk a dry plant and keep it dunked in liquid , you’ve reached every part of the plant. No spray mist floating around

Peroxide likely would kill gnat larvae; sundews or yellow sticky cards are pleasing)

 

[southernbelle]

If you are trying to use a systemic for scale and mealy bug, then a good plan would be to have a container to dunk and hold the whole plant into. Granules on top repeatedly is just breeding resistant pests. If you dunk a dry plant and keep it dunked in liquid , you’ve reached every part of the plant. No spray mist floating around

Peroxide likely would kill gnat larvae; sundews or yellow sticky cards are pleasing)

I agree, if the same chemical is used repeatedly, however, rotating chemicals with different modes of action each time prevents resistance. And, we’re just talking about 2-3 applications max. The problem with dunking (for those of us concerned about virus) is the solution/container would have to be changed or disinfected for each plant, which would be prohibitive if more than a couple. I learned from Keith Davis, from his work with UNC, that virus can be spread in run off.

 

[cnycharles]

I agree, if the same chemical is used repeatedly, however, rotating chemicals with different modes of action each time prevents resistance. And, we’re just talking about 2-3 applications max. The problem with dunking (for those of us concerned about virus) is the solution/container would have to be changed or disinfected for each plant, which would be prohibitive if more than a couple. I learned from Keith Davis, from his work with UNC, that virus can be spread in run off.

True.
An alternative is to mix up a five gallon bucket of the liquid, flow it through and over the plants, wetting all, letting it sit in its own saucer (or not) and drench each pot individually. No mist floating around and better coverage. Theoretically, a bucket, aquarium water pump and plastic tubing can be used for moving liquids. As always, follow the label
If you are not eradicating with pellets, then a better method would be needed. Why keep repeating what isn’t getting rid of them, if you can change and do so? With a systemic, your physical application may only be a few times a year, but the internal chemical will have like a half life of decreasing amount and effectiveness. When it gets weaker, the bugs that didn’t get killed will become more resistant to being exposed to non lethal doses
But, if it is working and the repeated pellets are for newly introduced bugs, then it’s working and doesn’t need changing

 

[cnycharles]

One thing to point out, is that there are many chemicals which used to work very well, but they were over-used, or used at the wrong time or for the wrong pest. One of the greatest problems in applying chemicals is that most ever produced now have resistant pests or diseases and no longer work. There are now biological fungicides and insecticides which work very well used in rotations to keep bugs and disease away so are better suited to prevent resistant pests. It’s important to not use a single chemical all of the time, and just use things which the label says should be used on these plants, at this time, for this long. You may say to yourself ‘this is so convenient , and it seems to work for everything’… but you are making resistant pests, and soon it won’t work at all, and you will curse the chemical wondering why it stopped working all of a sudden. And if you are a wholesaler/retailer and your plants get distributed with these newly resistant bugs or diseases, you have now spread a new plague for everyone else. Even the casual grower bringing their orchids to meetings or shows, are potentially spreading their resistant organisms to everyone else.
There are very few new chemicals coming along out of the pipelines of the pesticide companies, so we all really need to protect the things we have available that work, and help protect others who also need these chemicals to work, and to become educated on these things, and to help educate others. Because plants go every which way, and the resistant bugs with them
Happy growing!

 

[Cklinger]

There are now biological fungicides and insecticides which work very well used in rotations to keep bugs and disease away so are better suited to prevent resistant pests.

I completely agree! At the grow, I order a product called NoFly, which contains spores of the entomopathogenic fungus Isaria fumosoroseus. It infects the pest which stops them from eating, then when they die the spores get released to other nearby pests.

Another method of IPM I use at the farm is through beneficial insects which is our sole method of dealing with pests and preventing them. For example, I order rove beetles if we have a bad fungus gnat infestation, and order Stratiolaelaps scimitus (predatory mite) as a preventative since they’ll feed on mite eggs, fungus gnat larvae, as well as root aphids. If you look on Arbico-organics.com, you’ll find a plethora of beneficial mites/insects for numerous needs, and they can even establish their own colonies so that you don’t have to keep re-ordering from them. I highly recommend using beneficials if you’re growing in a greenhouse/indoors since it’ll remain in a somewhat closed area.

 

[cnycharles]

We use mites and nematodes for thrip, and mites for other mites. I hadn’t heard of a mite for root aphids. We also use no fly but with a mix that increases it’s effectiveness

 

[Cklinger]

We use mites and nematodes for thrip, and mites for other mites. I hadn’t heard of a mite for root aphids. We also use no fly but with a mix that increases it’s effectiveness

Do you mind if I ask what the other mix is? A neighboring farm has been using No Fly for a pest issue so this might help them out more

 

[cnycharles]

There would need to be contact through dm or pm

 

[Carmella.carey]

This all seems very complicated I have also had great luck with just rubbing off any mature female scale (manual removal) then spraying the plant with 1 part bleach 2 part water solution then thoroughly washing the entire plant with a garden hose. I repeat twice yearly and as far as I know scale & mealie bug don't build resistance to bleach.
This is on Cattleya Alliance plants with thick sturdy leafs and the "bleach treatment" has hurt other types of Orchids in my collection.
Patrick

 

[Greenpaph]

Southernbelle,
Nice and clean! What size is the tray on the counter in the last photo? And where did you get it?

 

[southernbelle]

Southernbelle,
Nice and clean! What size is the tray on the counter in the last photo? And where did you get it?

All of the trays are plastic large boot trays from Gardener’s Supply. 46 ½ x 15 ½ “. They also come in smaller sizer and with rubber mat, that I don’t use. They fit the counter nicely, but also 2 fit perfectly on my 48” x 30” tables. Here they are on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/Gardeners-Su...ocphy=9008199&hvtargid=pla-627948003019&psc=1

 

[FourEve]

I water at the sink. The trays only catch a minor amount of run off when I put them back in their places in the trays.

I know this is an older thread…can I become your friend and get a gift plant??

This is a wonderful set up. I would love to graduate to this level!