A question about Phrag. Hanne Popow

[kman]

My question is, how cool can one grow this hybrid?

Frank Cevera says:

"Primary habitats range from 1,100 to 2,000 meters
(3,280 to 6,562 feet) with most at the lower end of that
range. Despite the upper limit of the elevation, Phrag.
schlimii is a warm-grower and cannot survive in cooler
conditions. Phragmipedium besseae is a cool-grower and
cannot survive in warm conditions."

In volume 84-4 of the Orchid Digest.

I ask because I grow on the cool side, and have success with besseae and kovachii, and hybrids with 50% or more of these two species. I've generally avoided any crosses with schlimii because of the higher night temperature requirements. I am growing out a flask of (Inca Rose 'White Hot' x besseae v. flavum ‘Manza’). Inca Rose is 25% schlimii and 25% fischeri, and I agree with Frank that fischeri is really a form of schlimii (not to start a lumper vs, splitter conversation here). These seedlings are growing well for me, but I write this off to the preponderance of besseae in the mix,

What have you all seen? Can Hanne Popow grow well and cool?

 

[gonewild]

What temperature is your cool side?

 

[kman]

Night low temperature of 50, and I try not to spend the money to heat a large greenhouse much at all on most winter days. So some stormy times the highs without heat are in the mid to low 60s, but I do generally fire up the heater to keep it 65 or above. "Normal" rainfall here is 50 inches plus, October to March, so we see a lot of sunless days and it can get dreary in the winter. I do let it go into the mid 40s for some of the Paphs for a time in January, and during that period use heating mats for seedlings and a few sensitive species.

Odonts, Disa, Cymbidiums, Zygos and a number of Laelias grow very well, as do a surprising range of Paphs.

Fuel prices in rural Northern California are wild these days, and since I retired from production my preference is not to go crazy using the heater.

 

[gonewild]

I think the altitude data may be misleading.
I've seen schlimii growing next to kovachii and besseae in Lima at Alfredo Manrique's nursery.

In Santa Barbara at SBOE they have schlimii growing in their unheated outdoor space where the winter temperature can get below freezing for short periods.

SBOE March 2024.

 

[mrhappyrotter]

A "Night low temperature of 50F" will probably not be an issue at all, based on my experience.

I'm very surprised to hear a report of schlimii (or any phrag) handling temperatures at or below freezing for any period of time. As an experiment last year, I left a couple of tubs of all manner of different types of Phrags out in my greenhouse. They all (or mostly all) survived, but they took heavy damage once temperatures dipped below 40F. By the end of the cold season, they looked very bad. Foliage was heavily damaged and the roots were in poor shape (though that was almost certainly due to the fact that I still kept the mix fairly wet).

 

[gonewild]

Kman how many hours per night does your temperature remain at 50°?

 

[kman]

Kman how many hours per night does your temperature remain at 50°?

Good question. Last night, with cloud cover and a warm front moving through the low was 55, from about 9:30 P.M. to 7:45 A.M. Clear still nights after a cold front passes and it can be 9 or 10 hours during which the heater maintains a temp higher than 50. We rarely get nights into the mid or low 30s, and on those the 50 minimum can go for just short of 12 hours. These are winter numbers - much if not most of the year a minimum of 55 is the rule.

 

[Silverwhisp]

My Hanne Popow did just fine outdoors this Fall, with occasional night temps in the mid-40’s in (new) zone 6a. It’s grown in semi-hydro and is in bloom right now with four inflorescences; multiple buds and flowers on each.

 

[gonewild]

Good question. Last night, with cloud cover and a warm front moving through the low was 55, from about 9:30 P.M. to 7:45 A.M. Clear still nights after a cold front passes and it can be 9 or 10 hours during which the heater maintains a temp higher than 50. We rarely get nights into the mid or low 30s, and on those the 50 minimum can go for just short of 12 hours. These are winter numbers - much if not most of the year a minimum of 55 is the rule.

What is your night time humidity when it's down to 50°?

 

[gonewild]

I asked Alfredo how he feels schlimii affects the temperature tolerance of his hybrids with besseae and kovachii. The results add warmth tolerance on the high end but doesn't really affect the low end.
Temperature down to 50° is not damaging but growth slows.

 

[kman]

What is your night time humidity when it's down to 50°?

Nigh time humidity is never below 80%. Dry weather generally 85%+. During extended wet weather, which we get many times each season, it can be well over 90%, even during cloudy days.

 

[kman]

Thanks to all for your input on this.