C.trianaei ('Jungle Feather' x Self) ?????

[Ozpaph]

No wonder Latin is a dead language.............

 

[Just1more]

Well what ever it is and how ever you spell the grex, it made a beautiful Christmas corsage for my grandmother.
-PatrickView attachment 37492View attachment 37493

Being a grandmother, I would have felt duly honored to receive that corsage

 

[terryros]

No wonder Latin is a dead language.............

Add to the Latin issue disagreements about who originally discovered a species and who originally described it in a published document and you have a potential mess. I guess not that different from what can happen to other aspects of human history.

 

[GuRu]

Today the correct name to use is trianae. ...............

Not only today you spell the name C. trianae.
The by Guldal mentinoned botanist J. Roeth used this spelling in his book 'Orchideen' (orchids) published in 1982 and even the German orchid gardener and bookwriter Walter Richter used the same spelling already in his book .....die schönsten aber sind Orchideen (......but the most beautiful are orchids) in the early 1960 years. So this spelling isn't new and the only correct one.

 

[Carmella.carey]

Being a grandmother, I would have felt duly honored to receive that corsage

Her favorite is a Cattleya mossiae for Easter.
-Patrick

 

[Just1more]

Love the mossiae, particularly the shape of the lip!

 

[Carmella.carey]

Love the mossiae, particularly the shape of the lip!

Very charming species with the "Falling forward" petals "Bow leg" lateral sepals and that water fall lip.
My favorite orchid. Here's one I named C.mossiae 'Patrick's Choice'
-Patrick

 

[Guldal]

Today the correct name to use is trianae. See Kew’s accepted name:

View attachment 37491

Indeed the use of trianae is widely accepted. However, note the following historical notes that Chadwick outlined in his book why trianaei was used:

View attachment 37490

I reconsulted Röth (2001) and discovered that I the first time around overlooked, that he extensively and with due German meticulousness covers the historic roots behind the kerfuffle over the name:
Around 1850 Linden was sent plants from Dr. Triana from Bogotá, that he in honour of Dr. Triana named C. trinai (sic!). Linden suspected, that these plants were identical with C. warszewiczii, that Reichenbach fil. described in 1854. A view that Reichenbach fil. shared in the beginning. Later on Reichenbach fil. acquired some plants from another collection, that made it clear to him, that the plants were a species in its own right. Together with Linden he described and published the species in 1860 under the name C. trianaei.
Röth points out, that according to the International Code for Botanical Nomenclature (ICBN) an original name has to be changed if its spelling doesn't contain the correct ending in latin. He furthermore refers to the Tokyo-Code 1994, Rec. 60 C.1 (a), that states, that for a name ending with an 'a', as is the case with Triana, the correct [genitiv - my comm.] ending is 'e', i.e. trianae.
I think, Reichenbach fil.s first publication with the name C. trianei in Germany would be met with the expression "Hier irrt Goethe" - or in plain English: Reichenbach fil. up **** creek without a paddle.
Reichenbach fil., by the way, in spite of his own first publication, later on often used the name C. trianae.
(for sources, further details and the early discussion of C. trianae's taxonomic status see Röth, 2001, p. 85f.)

 

[southernbelle]

There can be great variation in this flower dependent on environmental influences. Waldor has photos of the bloom on the same plant grown in Florida and then New Jersey. These are their two photos. (I have a division of this from Waldor, however I paid ½ of this a few years ago) it’s in spike, I’ll post bloom in my growing conditions when it blooms). But unfortunately, neither of these originals resembles yours Patrick

 

[Guldal]

There can be great variation in this flower dependent on environmental influences. Waldor has photos of the bloom on the same plant grown in Florida and then New Jersey. These are their two photos. (I have a division of this from Waldor, however I paid ½ of this a few years ago) it’s in spike, I’ll post bloom in my growing conditions when it blooms). But unfortunately, neither of these originals resembles yours PatrickView attachment 37512

Interesting difference, Belle!
I know, of course, that Paphs also can differ in flowering due to culture, but in my book the outcome of this is more in the vein of good flowering/bad flowering (i.e. bad = smaller flowers, less flowers in multis, state-dependend deformities, etc.). This, though, are two well flowered blooms from the same clone, being so different that I would have sworn, they were from two wholly different plants. Striking - and elucidating!
Thank you, Belle, for thus teaching us, and especially this Catt-newbie, an informative and instructive lesson! Can't wait to see, how your flowering turns out!

Lastly: A Happy and Floriferous New Year to you, Belle - and to Y'all!

 

[southernbelle]

Interesting difference, Belle!
I know, of course, that Paphs also can differ in flowering due to culture, but in my book the outcome of this is more in the vein of good flowering/bad flowering (i.e. bad = smaller flowers, less flowers in multis, state-dependend deformities, etc.). This, though, are two well flowered blooms from the same clone, being so different that I would have sworn, they were from two wholly different plants. Striking - and elucidating!
Thank you, Belle, for thus teaching us, and especially this Catt-newbie, an informative and instructive lesson! Can't wait to see, how your flowering turns out!

Lastly: A Happy and Floriferous New Year to you, Belle - and to Y'all!

I wait with eager anticipation as this will be the first bloom for me. It’s not a fast grower and the previous bud blasted!

Interesting difference, Belle!
I know, of course, that Paphs also can differ in flowering due to culture, but in my book the outcome of this is more in the vein of good flowering/bad flowering (i.e. bad = smaller flowers, less flowers in multis, state-dependend deformities, etc.). This, though, are two well flowered blooms from the same clone, being so different that I would have sworn, they were from two wholly different plants. Striking - and elucidating!
Thank you, Belle, for thus teaching us, and especially this Catt-newbie, an informative and instructive lesson! Can't wait to see, how your flowering turns out!

Lastly: A Happy and Floriferous New Year to you, Belle - and to Y'all!

Thanks Jens for the kind words. My flowering will be interesting considering I’m almost mid-way latitudinally. Although I am an ‘under lights’ rather than ‘greenhouse’ grower. It seems many things I grow (if they have a tendency to change with environmental conditions) end up being more saturated in color in my culture. I very recently bought this orig. division in spike from Waldor. It’s just starting to open today with a much more saturated flare than their photo, after being in my grow room for only 2 weeks!! Bizarre to me why!!
Here’s Waldor’s shot.


Here’s mine:

I’ll post a better photo when it’s fully open in a new thread.

 

[terryros]

Deb, I just don’t think that 2 weeks in your room can have made a difference! The difference in the amount of flamea is remarkable! Ask Dave what variation they see year to year.

 

[Guldal]

I wait with eager anticipation as this will be the first bloom for me. It’s not a fast grower and the previous bud blasted!

Thanks Jens for the kind words. My flowering will be interesting considering I’m almost mid-way latitudinally. Although I am an ‘under lights’ rather than ‘greenhouse’ grower. It seems many things I grow (if they have a tendency to change with environmental conditions) end up being more saturated in color in my culture. I very recently bought this orig. division in spike from Waldor. It’s just starting to open today with a much more saturated flare than their photo, after being in my grow room for only 2 weeks!! Bizarre to me why!!
Here’s Waldor’s shot.
View attachment 37541

Here’s mine:
View attachment 37542
I’ll post a better photo when it’s fully open in a new thread.

WAUW! Both for this cross as such... and for, actually, both flowers, each in their own right: your flamea flares are great, so is the more markedly colour contrast (carmine/ rosewood vs white) in Waldor's!

 

[tomp]

My ‘Jungle Feather‘in bloom also. I remember the first time I saw it bloom I grabbed the virus test kits.

 

[Carmella.carey]

I wait with eager anticipation as this will be the first bloom for me. It’s not a fast grower and the previous bud blasted!

Thanks Jens for the kind words. My flowering will be interesting considering I’m almost mid-way latitudinally. Although I am an ‘under lights’ rather than ‘greenhouse’ grower. It seems many things I grow (if they have a tendency to change with environmental conditions) end up being more saturated in color in my culture. I very recently bought this orig. division in spike from Waldor. It’s just starting to open today with a much more saturated flare than their photo, after being in my grow room for only 2 weeks!! Bizarre to me why!!
Here’s Waldor’s shot.
View attachment 37541

Here’s mine:
View attachment 37542
I’ll post a better photo when it’s fully open in a new thread.

That's

My ‘Jungle Feather‘in bloom also. I remember the first time I saw it bloom I grabbed the virus test kits.

View attachment 37552View attachment 37553View attachment 37553

Ha, ha! I've been there. Color break aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ozpaph]

Hard to believe these are the same plant. At least the lips on the 'Waldor' plants look the same.

 

[DrLeslieEe]

Flameas can differ season to season and year to year as they are unstable genetics behind it. I’ve seen it happen often in my collection and on different flamea cultivars around the world.

For example, cooler nights will slow down petal growth to allow more anthocyanin deposition, therefore more flares. Or heat can accelerate flower expansion and grow faster than the pigments.

So… I use this knowledge to be able to create the flarings I want if I change plant positions into different growing areas (if I’m not too lazy, forgetful or in Brazil lol).

 

[southernbelle]

Flameas can differ season to season and year to year as they are unstable genetics behind it. I’ve seen it happen often in my collection and on different flamea cultivars around the world.

For example, cooler nights will slow down petal growth to allow more anthocyanin deposition, therefore more flares. Or heat can accelerate flower expansion and grow faster than the pigments.

So… I use this knowledge to be able to create the flarings I want if I change plant positions into different growing areas (if I’m not too lazy, forgetful or in Brazil lol).

Thank you for this info. That does possibly explain mine (especially because of the 2-3 days of cold in shipping) which is encouraging. But, how does that explain the Waldor photos of the two plants (above)? The one with the wide flare was grown in FL and the one with no flare in NJ. Wouldn’t the cooler nights more logically be in NJ?

 

[DrLeslieEe]

Thank you for this info. That does possibly explain mine (especially because of the 2-3 days of cold in shipping) which is encouraging. But, how does that explain the Waldor photos of the two plants (above)? The one with the wide flare was grown in FL and the one with no flare in NJ. Wouldn’t the cooler nights more logically be in NJ?

Some flares are created opposite to my comments above. So it’s possible that ‘Jungle Feather’ (which is really a picotee folding rather than a flamea or peloric) can create more anthocyanin in heat between these folds.

Or it’s possible the one in Florida was in cooler GH while the NJ was in hot house GH?

 

[big923cattleya]

There is another thing to consider. I too, thought it was more of a temperature thing causing the color differences BUT a simple google search revealed something that I was not aware of. With the reds, raspberry, purple and blue pigments, acidic conditions cause red colors, alkaline conditions cause more of a raspberry purple, or purple color in flowers.
In either event, I don’t think that colors change drastically in a few days of shipping or by a warmer night or two in a greenhouse.
It would be an interesting experiment though to take two divisions of the same Cattleya, grow them side by side, and give one say slightly alkaline water/fertilizer at a ph or 7.6-7.8 and give the other water a fertilizer at 6.2-6.4 and see after blooming, just how much that the color might differ?!