Roy
Well-Known Member
My plant that won Champion Laeliinae a show this last week end.
C. xdolosa 'Deborah'
- Thread starter Roy
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Very nice. Congrats. I love walkeriana hybrids, especially albums!! 
John M
Orchid Addict
Very nice! It looks as though it's got GREAT substance....as if the lip and petals/sepals are thick and hard. Hopefully that will translate into very long lasting flowers. 'Wish it was mine!
Lovely flower, Roy, and nicely grown plant.
Yeah, the walkeriana hybrids present very well. I have always been impressed with Slc Mahalo Jack. I saw it only once at a show and the picture of those well presented petals/sepals and the vibrancy of the color has persisted. Sadly, this clone doesn't seem to be in circulation any more.
Very nice. Congrats. I love walkeriana hybrids, especially albums!!
Yeah, the walkeriana hybrids present very well. I have always been impressed with Slc Mahalo Jack. I saw it only once at a show and the picture of those well presented petals/sepals and the vibrancy of the color has persisted. Sadly, this clone doesn't seem to be in circulation any more.
Stone
Well-Known Member
Nice Roy but did I miss something? Is Deborah dolosa now? and dolosa isn't a hybrid or has that changed too??
Stone
Well-Known Member
The more I look into this the more I am of the opinion that this is Catt obrieniana which is a natural hybrid between walkeriana and dolosa (which may or may not be a hybrid between loddigesii and walkeriana). I have crossed walkeriana with Pendentive (which I now think may be obrieniana too) which would make that cross obrieniana as well....I think?
Roy
Well-Known Member
The more I look into this the more I am of the opinion that this is Catt obrieniana which is a natural hybrid between walkeriana and dolosa (which may or may not be a hybrid between loddigesii and walkeriana). I have crossed walkeriana with Pendentive (which I now think may be obrieniana too) which would make that cross obrieniana as well....I think?
Will be/is xdolosa. Fits into o'brieniana, Snow Blind etc. All plants stemming from C. walkeriana 'Pendentive', including Pendentive are in the process of being renamed. All are hybrids, what names they will take is yet to be determined. Mass general thought is that Deborah (+ Laina, Bette, poss' White Beauty & maybe one or two others) are C. xdolosa. I have checked some genuine Xdolosa plants a friend has & flowers regularly I can only agree.
Lots of emails & consultations happening as we speak. Full details may be a while off, who knows. I chose to do, what I believe is correct, to use its proper name. To use walkeriana is totally wrong. I was using that but posting pics with that name caused too much bad comment, not my fault but continued.
I questioned it when I first bought this & Bette & got the same bad comments cos I chose to question it !! Can't win !!
cattmad
Well-Known Member
all of these (a lot of different clones including bette, Deborah and many many more) came into Australia via Hawaii in the early 90's, they originated from the old Jones and Scully and are now commonly believed to be dolosa.
I believe that some genetic testing was done after the Japanese were first to refuse to accept them as walkeriana for showing and it confirmed they are dolosa. That was around 15 years ago
walkeriana 'Kenny' is also in dispute but to my knowledge hasn't been confirmed as dolosa
I believe that some genetic testing was done after the Japanese were first to refuse to accept them as walkeriana for showing and it confirmed they are dolosa. That was around 15 years ago
walkeriana 'Kenny' is also in dispute but to my knowledge hasn't been confirmed as dolosa
JeanLux
Well-Known Member
Bravo Roy :clap: !!!! Jean
lovely flower.
Great info, thanks
Great info, thanks
Stone
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the comments cattmad and Roy. One question though, is it true that dolosa has not been able to be replicated by using loddigesii and walkeriana? (that's what I read) If so, it may very well be that we need to back-cross to walkeriana to get the ''Deborah'' type forms. I have had 2 clones of ''dolosa'' in the past and they looked nothing like these plants. (much more open and the lip much narrower) more like the third one down here:http://www.orchid.url.tw/myflowers/cattleya/cattleyadolosa.htm
Can the genetic testing distinquish between ''dolosa' and ''obrieniana''?
cattmad
Well-Known Member
I can't answer that, im sorry. From memory it was said that they were likely colchicine treated as they were 4N.
I do remember the days when these were taking show benches by storm and selling for big bucks, now they're worth about 20 bucks for a big division.
I do remember the days when these were taking show benches by storm and selling for big bucks, now they're worth about 20 bucks for a big division.
Roy
Well-Known Member
walkeriana 'Kenny' has been changed to C. Snow Blind 'Kenny'. Has been for some time I think.
The Orchidglade plant is still debated, main thought is that a C. dolosa was m/cloned instead of a true walkeriana. Subsequent selfings produced Pendentive (so its said) & down the track, the ones we have here. There is another walkeriana ??? a pink one, awarded, that also flowers from the top of the cane where it definitely shouldn't... I'm getting a piece of it soon. Don't know what to call it yet except for awarded name.
The Orchidglade plant is still debated, main thought is that a C. dolosa was m/cloned instead of a true walkeriana. Subsequent selfings produced Pendentive (so its said) & down the track, the ones we have here. There is another walkeriana ??? a pink one, awarded, that also flowers from the top of the cane where it definitely shouldn't... I'm getting a piece of it soon. Don't know what to call it yet except for awarded name.
Roy
Well-Known Member
O'brienianum (now xdolosa) Snow Blind, Hallie Rogers, Little Angel, Angel Walker & Cosmo-Hiroto are all xdolosa hybrids ( changed to by RHS ) I think. Walk' 'Pendentive to xdolosa etc. Another round of name changes BUT these I genuinely think are warranted. The stud book is so wrong now its not funny but gradually getting corrected. Hurts a few by doing it, stiff!
C. nobilior is recognised as a separate species, hybrids from it also listed as such.
I think the variations being seen is because the C. Dolosa or xdolosa cross has been done a number of times by individuals & nurseries. The variation of parents on both sides is great & of course the seedling variations. C. harrisoniana may be being used as well by someone thinking it's a loddigesii, more variations ie stuff ups in names !!!
C. nobilior is recognised as a separate species, hybrids from it also listed as such.
I think the variations being seen is because the C. Dolosa or xdolosa cross has been done a number of times by individuals & nurseries. The variation of parents on both sides is great & of course the seedling variations. C. harrisoniana may be being used as well by someone thinking it's a loddigesii, more variations ie stuff ups in names !!!
Although I can't grow Catts I like reading about the history of these clones. Catalog photos of Catt. walkeriana Kenny and Limrick were one of the things that got me into this hobby.
Just got a plant named C. walkeriana 'Pendentive x C. nobilior semialba. As I understand it, this would be C. Dolosa x C. nobilior. Has this hybrid been named? Didn't find it within rhs.
Whatever these plants are, they are simply beautiful!
Whatever these plants are, they are simply beautiful!
Roy
Well-Known Member
This cross hasn't been named, it would read C. xdolosa x nobilior to be correct.
SlipperFan
Addicted
Very beautiful!
Migrant13
Mature growth?
Congrats on the award of this elegant Catt.
