Cattleya Bob Betts ‘white lightening’

[KateL]

Kate, I just checked with Hausermanns about white lightning.
They told me that they don’t know the origin of the clone, whether it’s an original from the 50’s or a more recent plant.
Whatever it is, it’s a beast of a plant. It’s vigor is like nothing else I’ve grown.
David

I have read that all early Bob Betts were tetraploids (and another Clint McDade story, about the mossiae pollen parent not really being mossiae, if you’re interested) and the sib crosses and selfings were even better. I would suspect your plant is a tetraploid.

 

[KateL]

White Cattleyas.. such a fun corner of the orchid world, riddled with rich history and desire.. I'm completely addicted to these.. I've watched this presentation countless times (). I purchased a small flask of Cattleya Bob Betts ‘The Virgin' FCC/AOS x Cattleya Bob Betts ‘Conqueror’ FCC/AOS. a few years back from Marni Turkel. She has an ebay storefront 'Mostlyspecies'.. linked from her website.. (Orchid Plant Sales). Some really cool plants rotate on her listing. I'm looking forward to blooming one of these out in the coming years. 'there are amazing other cultivars of Bob Betts sequestered in private collections' YES, I subscribe to this point of view.

I just watched for the first time. Great talk!

 

[monocotman]

Just checked with a orchids limited where my plant came from. They tell me that white lightning is an original clone from 70 years ago.
Its still hugely vigorous. It must have been quite a sight when this grex was in flower in the greenhouses then,
David

 

[Just-passn-thru]

Film at eleven Thanks...

Just to show that all is not doom and gloom with rot issues. Here is a success story. This arrived with me only about a year ago from Orchids Limited via Germany. There were transport issues and the consignment probably spent about a month in transit. One of the growths still had viable flowers although they were small. None of the roots survived so over the course of the past year this plant has been treated with much TLC.
It is growing in Orchiata in a 6 inch pot and was watered very carefully to begin with.
It probably helps that this was a big mature plant to begin with, with three leads and several big bulbs, so had plenty of resources to fall back on after losing the roots.
It also helps that my culture is probably improving.
Anyway, apart from the four new bulbs being smaller than they could be, the plant is now in excellent health and has six flowers with three more to come.
Its the first time I’ve flowered one of these big whites and I am surprised and the size of the blooms, The biggest are 6.5 to 7 inches across and the scent so pretty strong.
View attachment 22863
David

Outstanding

 

[monocotman]

A final photo of three of the leads and a total of eight flowers. Another lead that grew later in the summer has some small buds showing in the sheath and may flower in a month or so.
Not bad for a plant that had no roots a year ago and a clone and grex that are 70 years old!

 

[SouthPark]

a clone and grex that are 70 years old!

Extremely nice flowers. Is there a limit for catt orchids in terms of age? Or can they potentially keep going indefinitely without mutating and without issue?

 

[monocotman]

In theory, yes they can continue forever. They renew themselves every time they grow a new pseudobulb.

 

[Guldal]

Exquisite!

 

[terryros]

Excellent growing,David. Don’t you think that almost all of us have mericlones of ‘White Lightning’ and these could even be mericlones of mericlones? I doubt that any of us have divisions of the original plant and the original plant might not even exist. This doesn’t diminish the importance of having parts of an old cultivar, however we might get it.

 

[monocotman]

I agree. I’m sure that what we all have are mericlones and maybe even mericlones of mericlones.
What surprises me is just how good this mericlone is, even after 70 years. Maybe there is some reduction in quality but as we don’t know what the original looks like, how do we know?
Its still a pretty good cattleya. If the original was better, it must have been quite a plant.
plus this one is even one of the awarded ones!
maybe it was one of the most vigorous ones that grew well and was easy and quick propagate

 

[PeteM]

I agree. I’m sure that what we all have are mericlones and maybe even mericlones of mericlones.
What surprises me is just how good this mericlone is, even after 70 years. Maybe there is some reduction in quality but as we don’t know what the original looks like, how do we know?
Its still a pretty good cattleya. If the original was better, it must have been quite a plant.
plus this one is even one of the awarded ones!
maybe it was one of the most vigorous ones that grew well and was easy and quick propagate

Maybe you are just an exceptional grower.

 

[SouthPark]

The original plant, or divisions of the original ----- is likely still around out there. Just under the radar.

 

[SouthPark]

In theory, yes they can continue forever. They renew themselves every time they grow a new pseudobulb.

This is good/promising news. I once read/heard ---- but not sure if it's true - that human cells can only divide a certain number of times before a big issue occurs. But looks like orchid cells can keep on going indefinitely.

 

[DrLeslieEe]

What a show you have going there David.

At this point you qualify for a cultural award of CCE (92 points) as it matches the last one awarded by AOS with also 8 flowers in toll in 2012.

This goes to show the longevity of this lineage from Bow Bells, whose progeny of over 4000 hybrids, has produced FCC/AOS as recent as 2016 as a grandparent to Rlc. Taida Eagle Eye 'White Angel' FCC/AOS!

The meristem of orchids seem to continue forever and does not seem to produce the aging organelles of the older cells. That is why orchids will produce new growths in perpetuity. I have heirloom cattleya species (divisions) here that were collected over a century ago! Yes, they will outlive us!

 

[monocotman]

It’s a pity that the original parents of Bow Bells have been lost. If you read the Chadwick’s account, one is at the bottom of the Atlantic after it was on a boat torpedoed by the Germans in the Second World War. Ironically it was being sent the the US for safe keeping.
It wouled have been very interesting to remake the cross.

 

[DrLeslieEe]

It’s a pity that the original parents of Bow Bells have been lost. If you read the Chadwick’s account, one is at the bottom of the Atlantic after it was on a boat torpedoed by the Germans in the Second World War. Ironically it was being sent the the US for safe keeping.
It wouled have been very interesting to remake the cross.

Luckily we have enough Bow Bells and Bob Betts around to continue this legacy. All major great whites today are thanks to these genes.

 

[monocotman]

Leslie,
another piece to the puzzle.
as Kate alluded to earlier, there appears to be some doubt about what was crossed with bow bells to produce Bob Betts. It’s officially mossiae alba but apparently it is possible that it was actually a clone of x gravesiana (mossiae x lueddemanniana) masquerading as a mossiae. There are some lovely clones of x gravesiana alba around and as it’s a natural hybrid, some may have been mistaken for a straight mossiae.
David

 

[DrLeslieEe]

True indeed. Unfortunately we were not there to witness these events. There are many points in the past when wrong species or hybrids were named incorrectly as parents, with the resulting offspring unlike any current reproductions. We have no choice but to accept these inconsistencies and move along lol.

 

[monocotman]

Agreed. I am looking forward to the day in the not too distant future when we have genetic markers for all these things and it should be possible to work out what went on.

 

[SouthPark]

We have no choice but to accept these inconsistencies and move along lol.

True! Absolutely agree DLE. I often just fall back on just accepting and enjoying and admiring orchids and their flowers, behaviours etc for what they are ----- name or no name or no tag or ID etc.

I guess it does throw a spanner in the works for classification systems and convention systems, and judging/breeding ---- hahaha. Totally understandable. But going back to accepting and moving on is a nice step.