Cattleya Knightii 'New Horizon' (4N)

[dmcmkl]

This is my Cattleya Knightii 'New Horizon' (4N) - (percivaliana x quadricolor) which I purchased from Orchids Ltd last winter. At the time it was in spike. This is the first time I have bloomed it on my own. I am really pleased with how it turned out.

I repotted it after it was done blooming. When I did so I split it in half. The second plant is the larger division of the two and has two spikes. One spike is only going to produce one flower but the other spike is larger and looks like it will put out at least 3 flowers. Fingers crossed!!!

 

[monocotman]

That is lovely!

 

[Ray]

Great!

 

[GuRu]

WOW ... these flowers are pretty .... and look a lot like C. percivalliana.

 

[Ozpaph]

as good as many multi-generational hybrids - but better lip colour.

 

[terryros]

It really seems to have gotten the best of both parents. What if the fragrance is more like percivaliana or quadricolor?

 

[DrLeslieEe]

Turned out nice. Perc flattened the quad genes.

 

[My Green Pets]

I saw that he had another gorgeous primary available last year, was it percivalliana × trianae ? I didn't see yours though! Really great, I love primaries.

 

[terryros]

I saw that he had another gorgeous primary available last year, was it percivalliana × trianae ? I didn't see yours though! Really great, I love primaries.

Yes, it was percivaliana ‘Mendenhall-Summit’ x trianae ‘Cashen’s’. First naming rights went to Adela (1898) but Louis Chaton is a synonym registered about the same day as Adela with RHS. Several of us bloomed that remade very old primary hybrid and it was very nice. There is the thought that a number of heritage, old primary or near primary hybrids, if remade with new outstanding, tetraploid parents might be stunning and rival the best complex modern hybrids. I think this Knightii cross is in that category.

 

[NEslipper]

Lots of percivaliana in this one. Nice full form, and love the perc patterns in the lip! Unfortunately, it also inherited the perc open tube, which isn’t to my personal tastes. What’s the fragrance like?

 

[southernbelle]

Yes, it was percivaliana ‘Mendenhall-Summit’ x trianae ‘Cashen’s’. First naming rights went to Adela (1898) but Louis Chaton is a synonym registered about the same day as Adela with RHS. Several of us bloomed that remade very old primary hybrid and it was very nice. There is the thought that a number of heritage, old primary or near primary hybrids, if remade with new outstanding, tetraploid parents might be stunning and rival the best complex modern hybrids. I think this Knightii cross is in that category.

My Adela is in spike. I have two, the one from OL and one from Waldor. I wish they’d bloom at the same time!! The Waldor one used Summit, rather than Mendenhall Summit which the OL used. The OL seems to be a slower grower. They both should be 4N.

 

[dmcmkl]

I personally don't mind the open tube. Since it is not a pure percivaliana it makes sense that it might not have that characteristic. As for the fragrance I have a percivaliana and a quadricolor both in spike. If I'm lucky all three will be in bloom at the same time so I can compare!

Thank you for all the kind comments.

 

[NEslipper]

Yes, it was percivaliana ‘Mendenhall-Summit’ x trianae ‘Cashen’s’. First naming rights went to Adela (1898) but Louis Chaton is a synonym registered about the same day as Adela with RHS. Several of us bloomed that remade very old primary hybrid and it was very nice. There is the thought that a number of heritage, old primary or near primary hybrids, if remade with new outstanding, tetraploid parents might be stunning and rival the best complex modern hybrids. I think this Knightii cross is in that category.

It’s an interesting idea, I’m curious to see the results. I’ve been looking back through old AOS issues recently and there’s quite a bit of chromosome counting in some of the older issues. It seems quite a few of the old stud plants were tetraploid, and increased ploidy may explain some of the exceptional hybrid swarms like C Bow Bells. So I’m curious to see if these remakes are vastly improved.

It also reminds me of Chadwick’s book, in many of the species sections he laments the loss of entire populations of species that had usually fine flower quality, much better than what is typically seen today. The best were used for early hybridizing, and they were growing up thousands of plants for the cut flower industry, so there were already some truly exceptional plants around. Some of those genes are likely already in some of our current hybrids.

I agree, the results of these remakes will be interesting and I’m excited to see more of them posted here!

 

[dmcmkl]

Yes, it was percivaliana ‘Mendenhall-Summit’ x trianae ‘Cashen’s’. First naming rights went to Adela (1898) but Louis Chaton is a synonym registered about the same day as Adela with RHS. Several of us bloomed that remade very old primary hybrid and it was very nice. There is the thought that a number of heritage, old primary or near primary hybrids, if remade with new outstanding, tetraploid parents might be stunning and rival the best complex modern hybrids. I think this Knightii cross is in that category.

Jason at Orchids Ltd just listed some of the Cattleya Louis Chaton (4N) (Syn C.Adela) (percivaliana ‘Mendenhall-Summit’ AM/AOS (4N) x trianae ‘Cashen’s’ FCC/AOS (4N)) for sale. I'm picking mine up tomorrow!

​

 

[My Green Pets]

There is the thought that a number of heritage, old primary or near primary hybrids, if remade with new outstanding, tetraploid parents might be stunning and rival the best complex modern hybrids.

I think this is the best direction that Cattleya breeding can take. The species are what started the orchidelirium in the first place; why not get back to basics.

 

[terryros]

I think this is the best direction that Cattleya breeding can take. The species are what started the orchidelirium in the first place; why not get back to basics.

The key is having true tetraploid parents. Triploids/aneuploid/mixaploids just don’t breed at all (or well). Many larger, better flowers in the species, produced through line breeding or chemical manipulation turn out not to be full tetraploids, so they don’t work. It would be so much easier if we had routine, easy, and relatively cheap ways to determine if a plant is tetraploid. I suspect there are many crosses that are tried with parents that look. good and then they don’t work. I think Jerry and Jason were pretty sure that this Knightii cultivar was tetraploid. Something tells me that this came from a mericloning of the original plant rather than being a division, but I don’t know that for sure.

 

[dmcmkl]

Hey everybody. I just got home from picking my plant up. I noticed on the tag that the C. trianaei is 'Fat Petals' (4N) and not
C. trianaei ‘Cashen’s’ FCC/AOS (4N). I called them right away so they could correct the listing. I'm sure the plant will be very nice regardless.

I also asked them about the origin of my Knightii and they told me it is a division.

 

[terryros]

Hey everybody. I just got home from picking my plant up. I noticed on the tag that the C. trianaei is 'Fat Petals' (4N) and not
C. trianaei ‘Cashen’s’ FCC/AOS (4N). I called them right away so they could correct the listing. I'm sure the plant will be very nice regardless.

I also asked them about the origin of my Knightii and they told me it is a division.

I wonder if they made two different Adela/Louis Chaton crosses - one with ‘Cashen’s’ and another with ‘Fat Petals’? Did Jerry or Jason say if the label was just a mistake? If your label has a cross number at the bottom, post it and Deb and I can compare to what we have on our plants.

 

[dmcmkl]

OL 12-242 is at the bottom of the tag. Is that what you are looking for? I spoke directly to Jason about what I discovered and he did not mention that it might be a mistake.

 

[terryros]

OL 12-242 is at the bottom of the tag. Is that what you are looking for? I spoke directly to Jason about what I discovered and he did not mention that it might be a mistake.

Unfortunately my tag does not have a cross number! Southernbelle and I got our Adela/Louis Chaton from OL about the same time and our tags are (percivaliana ‘Mendenhall-Summit’ x trianae ‘Cashen’s’). Southernbelle also has a plant from a Waldor’s cross (percivaliana ‘Summit’ x trianae ‘Cashen’s). I have never seen OL list a trianae ‘Fat Petals’ 4N as a parent but maybe they have it and made the Adela/Louis Chaton cross two different ways. If you search on Adela or Louis Chaton in Slippertalk you should find several chains that southernbelle or I initiated that have pictures and some discussion.