censorship???

[Heather]

Enough. It's over. Can we get back to discussing plants please?

 

[gonewild]

it seemed that it was descending to poo throwing and that it was questioning the credibility of some people here in the u.s. which is why closing it was no big deal to me.

Who would dare question the credibility of some people in the u.s.?!
Especially about poo throwing?

(just kidding)

 

[PHRAG]

Why do I get the feeling I am getting dragged into this whether I want to be involved or not?

 

[gonewild]

Enough. It's over. Can we get back to discussing plants please?

I think you should close this thread about censorship.
oke:

 

[Heather]

Why do I get the feeling I am getting dragged into this whether I want to be involved or not?

Welcome to the world of administration, dear.

 

[gonewild]

Why do I get the feeling I am getting dragged into this whether I want to be involved or not?

Because you posted free advice.
:evil:

 

[Jon in SW Ohio]

Here's how I see it:

This past year we've seen way too many times where a situation has arose and we ignored it not wanting to have to be the "forum police". Then after ignoring it for a few days or weeks, things finally get out of hand and we have to take action on it. WE DO NOT WANT TO BE FORUM POLICE!! It's to the point now that we can usually recognize the beginnings of this process. Many of us saw what we thought was the begining of another one of those times, but couldn't be around to moderate it due to our other commitments.

Locks can be unlocked, think of it as a cooling down period, not as a limit to your free speech. A moderator saw things getting out of hand and took action on it that was not permanent in hopes of nipping it in the bud. If we wanted to control your speech the thread would have been deleted and members found to be "controversial" would have been banned. THAT DID NOT HAPPEN AND NEVER WILL.

This forum IS founded on free speech. On the same token though, this is not PooThrow.com or FreeToTroll.com. We want ALL people to feel welcome and if someone is going to make others feel unwelcome or affect their enjoyment of this hobby then some kind of action will be taken. I am glad such action wasn't necessary, but I have to admit I did not see a positive conclusion to it down the road either. I hope now that the thread is reopened we are not proven wrong in reopening it.

Jon

 

[PHRAG]

Dammit Jon, how come you can make so much sense!

I think school has melted my brain.

 

[gonewild]

Here's how I see it:

This past year we've seen way too many times where a situation has arose and we ignored it not wanting to have to be the "forum police". Then after ignoring it for a few days or weeks, things finally get out of hand and we have to take action on it. WE DO NOT WANT TO BE FORUM POLICE!! It's to the point now that we can usually recognize the beginnings of this process. Many of us saw what we thought was the begining of another one of those times, but couldn't be around to moderate it due to our other commitments.

Locks can be unlocked, think of it as a cooling down period, not as a limit to your free speech. A moderator saw things getting out of hand and took action on it that was not permanent in hopes of nipping it in the bud. If we wanted to control your speech the thread would have been deleted and members found to be "controversial" would have been banned. THAT DID NOT HAPPEN AND NEVER WILL.

This forum IS founded on free speech. On the same token though, this is not PooThrow.com or FreeToTroll.com. We want ALL people to feel welcome and if someone is going to make others feel unwelcome or affect their enjoyment of this hobby then some kind of action will be taken. I am glad such action wasn't necessary, but I have to admit I did not see a positive conclusion to it down the road either. I hope now that the thread is reopened we are not proven wrong in reopening it.

Jon

I respect your position. I would add the following only because I think it important and in no way mean it to be critical.

But tell me how what was written by either side of the "poo throwing" would cause a forum member to not enjoy the hobby? Is it not easy enough to not just read a thread?

It is not really freedom of speech if a person must worry about what big brother thinks. If you are going to sit in judgement and use your descression as to what is the difference between insulting and informative is you are Forum Police, like it or not.

Some rules were laid down for forum use and actually I never felt the need to read them because I won't cross my own line. But I did read John's free advice recently and I really appreciate his statement:

"If you have a problem with another member, you are FREE to voice your problem with them right out in the open. If you can't say it directly to them, don't say it at all."

This foundation is why I take my time to read and write at SlipperTalk, I want to hear orchid news and I want to hear unfiltered content.

To call a "time out" can completely "censor" a fact that was about to be revealed in any subject.

Carry on the good forum work.

 

[bwester]

Thanks Jon, that sums it up perfectly.

 

[bwester]

Blake, please send me a blank e-mail so I can send you a very private message. orchids at golden dot net.

peter

A blank email??? Are you serious??? I'm gonna pass on giving you my email address. How about you just send me a pm, or do you need me to send you a blank one of those too?

 

[Greenthings]

I think you should close this thread about censorship.
oke:

Heather, I started this thread, whatever protocol must be followed I do not care, frankly. If you decide to remove the thread completely, there will be no objection from me. If you wish to leave it in place, that is fine too.

peter

 

[Heather]

Thanks Peter,

I appreciate that, however, this is the sort of thread we leave around so that poeple can understand how we work here. It's a place for people to voice opinions. Nothing today has changed about this forum. That's the bottom line.

 

[Greenthings]

Thanks Peter,

I appreciate that, however, this is the sort of thread we leave around so that poeple can understand how we work here. It's a place for people to voice opinions. Nothing today has changed about this forum. That's the bottom line.

Excellent,

peter

 

[SlipperFan]

OMG -- I'm away for two days working at an orchid show, and I come back to...

I feel compelled to weigh in:
1. I didn't see any "poo" in anyone's posts (I've read them all).
2. I didn't see that things were starting to get "out of hand."
3. This kovachii thing is very serious. There are lots of reputations and money at stake, to say nothing of the species itself. If we can't hear/read all sides of the situation here, where will be be able to???
4. I'm very happy to see that the "powers that be" on this forum have decided that censorship, closing of contentious forums, etc. are not appropriate on this forum. The openness and information exchange that occurs here is why I always come here first. I truly hope this never is forgotten.
5. Heather, thank you for being open and tolerant. You do a good job of gently reminding us that we are responsible adults.
6. Thanks, Lance. I agree with, "This foundation is why I take my time to read and write at SlipperTalk, I want to hear orchid news and I want to hear unfiltered content.
To call a "time out" can completely "censor" a fact that was about to be revealed in any subject."
7. Blake: I think Peter is not that familiar with all the features of this, or any, forum. Perhaps he doesn't know what a PM is, or how to access it. Be gentle with people who are not as computer-savy as you, please. At least I read his message as a plea for a private conversation.

 

[Heather]

OMG -- I'm away for two days working at an orchid show, and I come back to...

AMEN girl!

I took off 5 days vaca to work mine this weekend too, and it has NOT been anything like my last vacations! The total opposite. But very rewarding. I had a blast helping the vendors!

There was a lot of drama there, and a lot here. A lot of the same drama, and yet we all come through as friends.

Orchid people are nuts, but they are also, on the whole, tolerant people. I will say I was pretty annoyed on Thursday, but on Sunday, I love my society again. I love you guys too. Some of you are my best friends in the world, and all of you I know I could count on in the long run if I had some terrible emergency.

Remember that when you post. We are open and tolerant here, but we are still completely nutso. oke:

 

[Greenthings]

OMG -- I'm away for two days working at an orchid show, and I come back to...

7. Blake: I think Peter is not that familiar with all the features of this, or any, forum. Perhaps he doesn't know what a PM is,

SlipperFan

Thank you and I could not agree more with all you express in points 1 to 6
Just super.

I have tried Private Messages on this forum; never got a reply. I prefer
private e-mail off the forum, for private messages.

Thanks again, all you good people.

peter

 

[Greenthings]

I wish to apologize to all subscribers, for having used a three letter word that starts with an (a) and ends with an (s) in post # 4 in this thread.

I never apologize for expressing my objections to censorship, which is much broader than will fit in the narrow definition of some people.

When you suppress or limit the expression of ideas by blocking a free and informative civil discussion, you are censoring the freedom of expression,
for you are saying I will not allow it to happen.

As I told another member of ST, in private e-mail, I lost my freedoms for five long years, trampled on by the boots of the Nazi Army. These should have been the best years of my young life; unfortunately they were the worst. Today, 60 years later, I still feel hurt and angry at having lost that most precious of all human rights, freedom, at that young age.

Freedom is not lost abruptly when an army invades your country, throws you in Nazi camps, like Dachau, and does the terrible inhumane things that happened there.
Freedom was lost long before that, when people ignored the small infringements on freedom and let it gradually slip away.

Finally, I have some indication that a member(s) of this forum wanted me silenced and/or removed as a member. A small threat to freedom of speech and freedom of association, but one nevertheless that must be erased.

I will not make another new post on this forum about censorship, but I will reserve my right to keep on participating, or not, in any discussion that may follow.

Adminstration my hat off for the position you took when you started this forum and for sticking to it.

 

[PHRAG]

Let me tell you all that I have deleted a thread. It was called "FREE advice" and it was started by me. Before you all start screaming censorship, let me tell you that I deleted it because I feel that it was being misinterpreted. I am calling a do-over. I think we have had enough talk of censorship around here. We get it. You don't want your threads locked. If you still have a problem with the situation, email me privately about it. [email protected]

Otherwise, DO NOT start another thread about this stuff. Three threads discussing it is enough, don't you think?

We try to do the best job we can keeping this forum user friendly, uncluttered with ads, troll-free and we do all of this for free because we believe that this forum is unique. If you truly believe that there is a threat of censorship on this board, I feel sorry for you. You don't realize just how good you have it here. Try going to the SOF and talking about a vendor who doesn't sponsor that board and see what happens. Try selling a plant at Orchid Source and see what happens. Ask Heather what being "Disneyed" means.

One of you questioned why a forum that supports free speech even needs a moderator. The reason we need moderators is because every day, EVERY DAY, there are spammers who attempt to join this forum and tell you how you can refinance your mortgage and make your penis harder, longer. Now, if you want this information, I can give you the email address of a hacker who would love to talk to you. But most of you will never have to worry about this nonsense because we take care of it before it even affects you.

Just promise me that you will think before you type. I am probably the last person who should be saying this, as sometimes my temper overtakes my common sense. But really, be careful how much you throw around terms like fraud and call something illegal. Unless you have proof, you have no right to accuse someone of wrongdoing and doing so could be considered libel. Lawyers are expensive.

So can we all agree that the drama is over? Can we continue talking about plants, and not about censorship which doesn’t exist here? I assure you, nobody is working “behind the scenes” to silence anyone. Don’t you think if we wanted to silence someone, you would notice that they are no longer registered? This is all nonsense, and it is starting to get old already. Let’s get back to the information, and leave the soap opera to daytime T.V.

 

[Greenthings]

Phrag,

I know you are not talking to me, for I already stated before you posted that it was my last new post on the topic.

It would help if you used several quotes, so not all of us are painted with the same brush.

peter