Cymbidium goeringii "Mangetsu" 日本春蘭「満月」-plucking flower buds.

[Linus_Cello]

Is this the same as "Hard Kanuma"?
Kanuma — Kusamono Gardens

 

[jokerpass]

I

Is this the same as "Hard Kanuma"?
Kanuma — Kusamono Gardens

It is not possible to know with the picture you showed me. You have to ask the vendor for the original packaging from japan and take a picture of the original packaging. Many US vendors buy very large quantities from japan all these pumices and then repackage them into smaller packs and resell it for higher. Please ask for the original packaging! You have the Kanji in the previous post to match.

 

[jokerpass]

Is this the same as "Hard Kanuma"?
Kanuma — Kusamono Gardens

This place has baked akadama and hard kanuma (from original Japanese packaging). They also have Hyuuga (but since they already have hard kanuma, so hyuuga is not needed)
https://www.houseofbonsai.com/categories/soil.html?sort=featured&page=2
house of bonsai.

I don't see satsuma, so you have to search more.

 

[BrucherT]

This place has baked akadama and hard kanuma (from original Japanese packaging). They also have Hyuuga (but since they already have hard kanuma, so hyuuga is not needed)
https://www.houseofbonsai.com/categories/soil.html?sort=featured&page=2


house of bonsai.

I don't see satsuma, so you have to search more.

I also bought from Kusamomo. You can only order once a year and it’s like a year in advance.

 

[spes1959]

I have no problem providing more guidance and coach to your C. goeringii cultural concerns. You know where to find me on facebook, and you can pm me. I suspect that other than the pottng mix, there is something not right about your set up. We can discuss more of this when I receive your pm on facebook. However, the first step to grow C. goeringii, you need to have the proper/correct potting mix, this is extremely critical.

For the potting mix: Here is a list of components that you can find in the US. in English and Japanese (you should always check/match with the Japanese description).

鹿沼土 (Kanuma)
硬質鹿沼土 (Hard Kanuma)

日向土（Hyuuga/Hyuga)

赤玉土 (Akadama)

焼き赤玉土 (baked Akadama)

薩摩土 (Satsuma). As Japanese can have problems with Kanji (Chinese characters), sometimes, on the bag, it can be written as さつま土 or can be written as サツマ土, but it's the same thing.

sizes: large (大粒）medium (中粒）small (小粒）fine (化粧砂 or can be written as 細粒）

I know the ratio of the pumice blend as described in many C. goeringii books. I can do it myself if I want to but it's a lot of work, so I buy ready-mixed in Japan. In North America, it's not possible, so you have to make a blend yourself. People who I coached in California and in Europe all grow their C. goeringii well in the mix they blend by themselves. Both guys were able to find most of the components. I believe in the European guy cannot find one of the component and he found another pumice with similar properties.

If you cannot find Hard Kanuma in the US, you can use Hyuuga as a substitute as Hard Kanuma, these 2 pumices have very similar properties.

The most important size is the medium size as it is used to fill 80% of the pot.

Hi Jokerpass I live in Italy and I don't have much experience with Chinese Cymbidiums. I would like to start with C. ensifolium which I have read to be the easiest to grow. Not finding in Italy the original potTing mix I ask you with what can I replace it to get closer? Thanks for the help you can give me.
add that I have Found only medium and little Akadana and Kanuma but not the third component.

 

[jokerpass]

Hi Jokerpass I live in Italy and I don't have much experience with Chinese Cymbidiums. I would like to start with C. ensifolium which I have read to be the easiest to grow. Not finding in Italy the original potTing mix I ask you with what can I replace it to get closer? Thanks for the help you can give me.
add that I have Found only medium and little Akadana and Kanuma but not the third component.

Hi Spes1959: It's good that you found akadama and kanuma. For the third pumice, you can either use Hyuuga pumice or Satsuma pumice. I know that Riccardo Senesi grows his C. goeringii beautifully. He is Italian and I remember he told me that he had to substutite at least one components that he found locally. He has a facebook account and you should ask him for details. You can mention that Michael suggested you to contact him for the potting mix information.

There is another way. I have seen quite a few people in North America (US and Canada) who use 50% bark (medium/small bark) and 50% pumice (medium/small pumice). But from what I see (other people's results), it's hit and miss.

 

[spes1959]

Thank you very much Jokerpass for the advice and for pointing me to Riccardo Senesi as a farmer in oriental Cymbidiem. he lives in Florence just like me and is already a friend of mine on Facebook. I will definitely contact him and if you don't mind I will come back to bother you for some other advice.

 

[jokerpass]

Thank you very much Jokerpass for the advice and for pointing me to Riccardo Senesi as a farmer in oriental Cymbidiem. he lives in Florence just like me and is already a friend of mine on Facebook. I will definitely contact him and if you don't mind I will come back to bother you for some other advice.

No problem. The Cymbidium potting he uses will work for all East Asian Cymbidiums including Cym. ensifolium.

 

[TropiCool]

Perhaps you can share the recipe on here for others growing in Europe as well?

 

[jokerpass]

I buy premixed bags from Japan, it's already mixed, I don't know the precise ratio. I just know that the mix contains three kinds of pumices: Hard Kanuma (not regular kanuma), Baked Akadama (not regular akadama), and Hyuuga/or Satsuma (these 2 pumices are interchangeable). The general ratio is the same but each vendor recipe is different slightly. The mix comes in 4 sizes, Large, Medium, Small, and Fine and this is how I pot them.

The proper method to pot these East Asian Cymbidiums is the following:

Large Grade Mix: bottom 10% of the pot

Medium Grade Mix: 80% of the pot (the main body of the pot)

Small Grade Mix: top 10% of the pot

When potted correctly, the newest pseudobulb should be 1/3-1/2 covered. If the whole pseudobulb is completely exposed, it is potte too high, it will never bloom or not bloom well because it's losing too much water/moisture.

What recipe are you looking for?

 

[spes1959]

It's better to get them in the spring and to have a high survival rate, the plant must have good roots. With the Japanese Mix, I am able to save a rootless C. goeringii in 1 season; however, this plant has not bloomed for me yet (The root is probably not good enough yet). Since you will not be able to get the plants until the spring, my recommendation now is to find the materials for the potting mix. I know in the US, it is possible to get individual components and you have to make it yourself (the components are hard kanuma, baked akadama, and satsuma). If you cannot get hard kanuma, regular kanuma should be okay. From what I understand, baked akadama may not be available in the US. If all you can get is regular akadama, make sure you only buy large and medium grade, you can forget about small and fine grades, they break/crumble too easily.

I have already read your advice to fertilize must a little these Cymbidium and I plan to add 4or 5 pellet balls in the spring. But I ask you if you think adding algae extracts like Kelpak could be positive or not. Thank you

 

[jokerpass]

I have already read your advice to fertilize must a little these Cymbidium and I plan to add 4or 5 pellet balls in the spring. But I ask you if you think adding algae extracts like Kelpak could be positive or not. Thank you

Do not add anything extra. If you add any growth hormones, you will never bloom it. One of the C. goeringii books I read, the author said that if you add any growth hormones, you will set the plant back at least 3 years (meaning it will keep growing but will never bloom). I don't know why but that's what the book says, so I follow.

 

[jokerpass]

Do not add anything extra. If you add any growth hormones, you will never bloom it. One of the C. goeringii books I read, the author said that if you add any growth hormones, you will set the plant back at least 3 years (meaning it will keep growing but will never bloom). I don't know why but that's what the book says, so I follow. In fact, my vendor said that you can bloom these cymbidiums without a single drop of fertilizer. When I receive the plant bareroot from Japan, I don't fertlize first year (rule of thumb is never fertilize the plant 1st year when you receive them). you can start fertlizing after that. In fact, the plants that I didn't fertilze the first year, they all bloom the following spring.

 

[spes1959]

Thank you very much

 

[spes1959]

hi jokerpass i followed your youtube course on oriental Cymbidiums and i would like to ask you how much sun they can get from october to april

I have no problem providing more guidance and coach to your C. goeringii cultural concerns. You know where to find me on facebook, and you can pm me. I suspect that other than the pottng mix, there is something not right about your set up. We can discuss more of this when I receive your pm on facebook. However, the first step to grow C. goeringii, you need to have the proper/correct potting mix, this is extremely critical.

For the potting mix: Here is a list of components that you can find in the US. in English and Japanese (you should always check/match with the Japanese description).

鹿沼土 (Kanuma)
硬質鹿沼土 (Hard Kanuma)

日向土（Hyuuga/Hyuga)

赤玉土 (Akadama)

焼き赤玉土 (baked Akadama)

薩摩土 (Satsuma). As Japanese can have problems with Kanji (Chinese characters), sometimes, on the bag, it can be written as さつま土 or can be written as サツマ土, but it's the same thing.

sizes: large (大粒）medium (中粒）small (小粒）fine (化粧砂 or can be written as 細粒）

I know the ratio of the pumice blend as described in many C. goeringii books. I can do it myself if I want to but it's a lot of work, so I buy ready-mixed in Japan. In North America, it's not possible, so you have to make a blend yourself. People who I coached in California and in Europe all grow their C. goeringii well in the mix they blend by themselves. Both guys were able to find most of the components. I believe in the European guy cannot find one of the component and he found another pumice with similar properties.

If you cannot find Hard Kanuma in the US, you can use Hyuuga as a substitute as Hard Kanuma, these 2 pumices have very similar properties.

The most important size is the medium size as it is used to fill 80% of the pot.

Hi jokerpass i followed your youtube course on oriental Cymbidiums and i would like to ask you how much sun they can get from october to april

 

[jokerpass]

hi jokerpass i followed your youtube course on oriental Cymbidiums and i would like to ask you how much sun they can get from october to april

Hi jokerpass i followed your youtube course on oriental Cymbidiums and i would like to ask you how much sun they can get from october to april

Throughout the year, only morning sun (no direct sunlight after 11:30am or noon). I don't know where you live, but you need to grow them outdoor as much as possible. I live in Toronto Canada, so it's only possible to grow them outddor from early May to early November. From early November to end of April, I grow them in a basement room underlight. if you can grow them outdoor all year round, here are the light requirements:

Spring (March, April, May): 75% shade

Summer (June, July, August): 90% shade

Fall (Sept, October, November); 75% shade

Winter (December, January, February): 50% shade

This is the general rule of thumb. However, some varieites (especially highly variegated varieties with little cholorophyll), you have to give them a shadier condition

 

[spes1959]

Throughout the year, only morning sun (no direct sunlight after 11:30am or noon). I don't know where you live, but you need to grow them outdoor as much as possible. I live in Toronto Canada, so it's only possible to grow them outddor from early May to early November. From early November to end of April, I grow them in a basement room underlight. if you can grow them outdoor all year round, here are the light requirements:

Spring (March, April, May): 75% shade

Summer (June, July, August): 90% shade

Fall (Sept, October, November); 75% shade

Winter (December, January, February): 50% shade

This is the general rule of thumb. However, some varieites (especially highly variegated varieties with little cholorophyll), you have to give them a shadier condition

I live in Florence (Italy) and grow my classic Cymbidiums on a south-west facing terrace. The minimum temperature is rarely below freezing and in this case I cover them with non-woven fabric. Only Cymbidium aloifolium stays in the colder months (November-April) in a glassed-in veranda always with south-west exposure.

 

[jokerpass]

I live in Florence (Italy) and grow my classic Cymbidiums on a south-west facing terrace. The minimum temperature is rarely below freezing and in this case I cover them with non-woven fabric. Only Cymbidium aloifolium stays in the colder months (November-April) in a glassed-in veranda always with south-west exposure.

From what I understand, Florence stays just above freezing in the winter time? C. goeringii requires 0C-10C at all times in the winter months. Do you know Riccardo Senesi? You can find him on facebook and just tell him that Michael Hwang suggests that you connect with him. He lives in Florence as well and I believe that he grows outdoor all year round. You should talk to him how he sets up his C. goeringii growing area. He bloomed his Mebina beautifully for the last 2 years. I think it is better to talk to him because he lives in Florence and knows the weather pattern. Also, I remember that Riccardo waters more frequently than I do (what I said in the presentation) because Florence has a very different weather pattern than Toronto, Canada (my growing condtions/protocols is optimized for East Coast Canada/USA, not for Florence) so your watering schedule will be verry different than mine.

 

[jokerpass]

I live in Florence (Italy) and grow my classic Cymbidiums on a south-west facing terrace. The minimum temperature is rarely below freezing and in this case I cover them with non-woven fabric. Only Cymbidium aloifolium stays in the colder months (November-April) in a glassed-in veranda always with south-west exposure.

I forgot to mention that whatever you know about classic Cymbidium culture, you can throw them into garbage. The cultural rules don't apply to C. goeringii or any other East Asian Cymbidiums (C. ensifolium, C. sinense, C. kanrna, C. faberi). If you grow these East Asian Cymbidiums with your classic Cymbidiums (Standard or Miniature) on a south west facing terrace, it will be 100% kill. From Facebook, I know that California is a perfect place to grow these Classic Cymbidiums but I an still waiting to see someone who can successfully grow and blom a C goeringii from California.

 

[spes1959]

I forgot to mention that whatever you know about classic Cymbidium culture, you can throw them into garbage. The cultural rules don't apply to C. goeringii or any other East Asian Cymbidiums (C. ensifolium, C. sinense, C. kanrna, C. faberi). If you grow these East Asian Cymbidiums with your classic Cymbidiums (Standard or Miniature) on a south west facing terrace, it will be 100% kill. From Facebook, I know that California is a perfect place to grow these Classic Cymbidiums but I an still waiting to see someone who can successfully grow and blom a C goeringii from California.

thanks for the reply Michael, you are very kind. I have already contacted Riccardo who lives two kilometers from my house. for the moment I want to grow only Cymbidium ensifolium and sinense. if I'm good then I'll go to Goeringii too. Thanks for all the advice you have given me, I will treasure it.
p.s. I have another little North facing terrace and I Will grow my ensifolium and sinense there hoping not to kill them