Cymbidium goeringii "Song Mei" (Chinese variety) 中國春蘭 「宋梅」

[jokerpass]

Cymbidium goeringii "Song Mei" (Chinese variety) 中國春蘭 「宋梅」Now I understand what my Japanese vendor and various books mean when they say that Chinese Cym. goeringii are robust (compared to Japanese Cym. goeringii). This traditional variety produced 7 new growths this year on a 10+ growth plants. i won't double the plant this year, but I think it's pretty robust. The roots are not very good when I received last year, it has grown a lot of new white long roots in late spring and early summer, but I am not sure if it will produce bud or not this fall. At least, I have many growths for this growing season.

 

[spes1959]

I read an article in Orchid Digest magazine that divides Cymbidium Goeringii info two subgroups: Lotus form and Lily form.

Song Mei is part of the first group that has a greater tolerance to cold and also a shorter leaf length. What do you think?

 

[jokerpass]

I read an article in Orchid Digest magazine that divides Cymbidium Goeringii info two subgroups: Lotus form and Lily form.

Song Mei is part of the first group that has a greater tolerance to cold and also a shorter leaf length. What do you think?

Are you referring to the flower petal form/shape? The Orchid Digest I think may not have a complete information. There are 3 groups for flower petal forms/shapes. The flower petal forms/shapes refer to the dorsal sepal and lateral sepals of the flower.

1. Plum Petal Form/Shape (also called round petal/form): Song Mei is in this group. This is my favourite flower petal shape/form because I like the symmetry.
2. Lotus Petal Form/Shape: This is the most rare out of the 3 groups. This is the most desirable flower petal form/shape out of the 3.
3. Daffodil Petal Form/Shape (I think this is the Lily petal that the orchid digest refers to).

I think in the old days, there were not too many things to do (TV, internet, phone), so they thought about how to torture people in the future. The Chinese classified goeringii flower petals/forms based on other existing flowers.
For example, plum flowers bloom in the winter, and if you look a a plum flower, the petal shape is round/circular. A Cym. goeringii flower that has a round sepals (for example song mei exibits this kind of shape), they call this type of sepal "a Plum flower petal/form".

The same logic goes for the Lotus and Daffodil petals shape/forms.

Now, let's discuss about the petals of a Cym. goeringii. For the Chinese, the clones with "closed" petals are the most desirable. All the classic/traditional clones, the 2 petals are tightly "hugging" the column and the pollinia of the flower, so that you cannot see them. This is the most desirable petal form. This particular trait reflects Confucious/Toaism teaching. Many of the Japanese clones have a "somewhat open" petals where you can see the column and pollinia of the flower, which is considered "disqualified" by the Chinese.

There is also a ranking system for the shape of the lips and a ranking system for shape of the pollinia/column which is very complicated so I am not going to explain it here.

This is how the Chinese appreciates and values Cymbidium goeringii flowers and there is a chart ranking all the diserable qualities to be qualified as a worthwhile clone to collect, IMO, this kind of appreciation is much more complicated (philosophical) and deeper than AOS judging. AOS judging is very superficial when you are comparing to the Chinese judging system for Cymbidium goeringii IMO.

In my experience, Chinese Cym. goeringii have leaf length between 45cm-60cm. All Cym. goeringii the lowest you can go is -5C. None of these qualities are related to the clone. However, the Chinese do select for the leaf shape. They are all specially selected. In my opinion, the Chinese varieties have a superior leaf shape than the Japanese varieties.

 

[spes1959]

Hi Jokerpass I am referring to an article written by ken Jacobsen judge of AOS and Cymbidium society of America. For him the two forms are different non only for petals and sepals but also for the
size of the flowers (10 cm for Lily form and 4 cm for Lotus form).
Leaf length: 35 cm Lily, 15 cm Lotus
Geographical area: yunnan and Sichuan Lily, korea and Japan Lotus
Buds: longer and narrower for Lily, quite full and rounded and nearly completed encased in floral bracts.
temperature Lily form Endure cold winter for short periods while Lotus forms if kept dry endure for longer periods. In hot periods are the first to better withstand temperatures above 32 degrees.

I don't want to question your great experience which is very useful to me, but I would like to be able to understand something more than this magnificent Cymbidium that I am starting to cultivate.

Kind regards

 

[jokerpass]

Hi Jokerpass I am referring to an article written by ken Jacobsen judge of AOS and Cymbidium society of America. For him the two forms are different non only for petals and sepals but also for the
size of the flowers (10 cm for Lily form and 4 cm for Lotus form).
Leaf length: 35 cm Lily, 15 cm Lotus
Geographical area: yunnan and Sichuan Lily, korea and Japan Lotus
Buds: longer and narrower for Lily, quite full and rounded and nearly completed encased in floral bracts.
temperature Lily form Endure cold winter for short periods while Lotus forms if kept dry endure for longer periods. In hot periods are the first to better withstand temperatures above 32 degrees.

I don't want to question your great experience which is very useful to me, but I would like to be able to understand something more than this magnificent Cymbidium that I am starting to cultivate.

Kind regards

He is right about the shape of the flower buds. Daffodil form: longer and narrower (like a bamboo), Lotus form: full and rounded. That's about it.

The leaf length he described was probably for a particular variety.

Cymbidium goeringii grows in China, Korea, and Japan and all the flower forms exist everywhere, not just 1 particular geographical area, so this doesn't make any sense.

The traditional/classical Chinese Cymbidium goeringii grow around Shanghai/Zhejiang Provice in China.
Yunnan and Sichuan do have Cym. goeringii (scientifically it's a goeringii) but they look different, so I don't know what he meant.

Winter requirement to bloom Cym. goeringii: 0C-10C at all time for 45-60 days, if you have strech of days where the day time high is about 13C, the flower buds will abort. So I don't know what he was referring in his writing.

Summer temp: 90% shade, 25C-30C during the day at all time. To keep cool in the summer months, water in the evening only before mosquitos come out. I treat all my Cym. goeringii the same doesn't matter what flower form.

I have seen some of Jacobsen's writing, and IMO, most of the information is actually questionable. I have seen some of the Cym. goeringii pictures and they were not grown properly. Only a handful of people in the US/Canada and Europe understands the importance of growing Cym goeringii in the East Asian Cymbidium Potting Mix. This is very important, to start with.

I read and speak both Chinese and Japanese, so my information is first hand from published books/magazines and from vendors directly.

In my experience, most English information is not correct, so I am here to provide correct information in the hope that there will be more hobbyist growing these very interesting species in the future.

 

[spes1959]

He is right about the shape of the flower buds. Daffodil form: longer and narrower (like a bamboo), Lotus form: full and rounded. That's about it.

The leaf length he described was probably for a particular variety.

Cymbidium goeringii grows in China, Korea, and Japan and all the flower forms exist everywhere, not just 1 particular geographical area, so this doesn't make any sense.

The traditional/classical Chinese Cymbidium goeringii grow around Shanghai/Zhejiang Provice in China.
Yunnan and Sichuan do have Cym. goeringii (scientifically it's a goeringii) but they look different, so I don't know what he meant.

Winter requirement to bloom Cym. goeringii: 0C-10C at all time for 45-60 days, if you have strech of days where the day time high is about 13C, the flower buds will abort. So I don't know what he was referring in his writing.

Summer temp: 90% shade, 25C-30C during the day at all time. To keep cool in the summer months, water in the evening only before mosquitos come out. I treat all my Cym. goeringii the same doesn't matter what flower form.

I have seen some of Jacobsen's writing, and IMO, most of the information is actually questionable. I have seen some of the Cym. goeringii pictures and they were not grown properly. Only a handful of people in the US/Canada and Europe understands the importance of growing Cym goeringii in the East Asian Cymbidium Potting Mix. This is very important, to start with.

I read and speak both Chinese and Japanese, so my information is first hand from published books/magazines and from vendors directly.

In my experience, most English information is not correct, so I am here to provide correct information in the hope that there will be more hobbyist growing these very interesting species in the future.

Thank you Michael I trust your knowledge. The first Goeringii will be the Song Mei and I will use all your tips.

 

[BrucherT]

I try and try. They die and die.

One C. kanran seems to be holding its own, summering outdoors.

 

[jokerpass]

If you want, we can talk over facebook messenger to figure out the reasons why they are dying.
Let me know. I am trying to help and I don't want to see growers get discouraged. You can find me on facebook and I will add you.

 

[Ozpaph]

hope you see flowers

 

[jokerpass]

hope you see flowers

The roots were not very good when I purchased it last year. It produced 6 new growths (the 7th growth stopped growing) and tons of roots this growing season but no bud this year. I know this is one of the most common/popular Chinese goeringii varieties, but this variety is known to produce lots of growths, but hard to bud. Wait another year or 2 and see. There is a trick to induce the plant to bud in the middle of the summer but I want to make sure the plants have good roots before I try the bud induction trick (for difficult to bud variety).