Achamore
Well-Known Member
An EYOF plant via Sue Adams.
Don Wimbur
- Thread starter Achamore
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Definitely increased ploidy, too bad about the deformity!
Yay besseae hybrids!
Yay besseae hybrids!
trdyl
Well-Known Member
Wonderful color!
These are weird. Sometimes deformed sometimes not.
These are weird. Sometimes deformed sometimes not.
Achamore
Well-Known Member
I believe it is due to the colchisine poisoning they do to bring about more 4N's. You see this a lot in the EYOF plants.
Yes, that's exactly why. Makes bigger, fuller flowers, but slow to bloom and often mutated. 
I don't mind that little horn at all. The flower is beautiful
and the color is so eye-catching. I'd take in a minute horn
and all!
and the color is so eye-catching. I'd take in a minute horn
and all!
Achamore
Well-Known Member
I agree with you Angela, though it does show the downside of colchicine poisoning as a technique. In effect it is a pretty crude tool for gene modification, shown by the fact that they did not intend to create these horns on the blooms. Sometimes the horns are fine, and sometimes I have seen them be so obtrusive that it impairs the beauty of the bloom.
should have photographed the other flower.......its lovely
Achamore
Well-Known Member
The other flower is now more or less fully open. So here it is..!
Migrant13
Mature growth?
Both flowers show excellent color and shape minus the horn. I am with Angela, I would take that one in a heartbeat. Are there other methods for inducing polyploidy that yield better results/less poisoning. Colchicine seems easy and readily available so I see why it makes sense. Perhaps other methods are too difficult or expensive?
Oh yes, and hard to bloom sometimes as well. I have two
E.Y.O.F. crosses and they're very stubborn and seem to
have recurring problems.
E.Y.O.F. crosses and they're very stubborn and seem to
have recurring problems.
Achamore
Well-Known Member
I've had many EYOF plants over the past 18 years. Some are more prone to the showing of these 'horns' than others. Usually they're pretty small, and don't obtrude much visually. The first bloom shown here was exceptional for the size of that horn. But for example, I haven't seen any horns at all on the EYOF specimens of St. Ouen, or Hanne Popow. Maybe schlimii being present helps? Its the medium length petals that are more prone to this, one's with longifolium in the background, in my experience. But as you can see with this 2nd bloom of Don Wimbur, that tiny horn is nothing to trouble one. I suppose the folk at EYOF have reckoned that having a few plants with horned blooms was a price worth paying in order to get the bigger blooms of 4N. And they always keep their best ones, and would sell off the ones they didn't like so much. Nowadays, for better or worse, they rarely sell any of their phrag crosses, as they are focused only on winning awards at shows. The wider orchid-growing community is no longer of any real interest to them. (By way of testament to that point, notice the lack of anyone at the EYOF ever posting any comments in this forum.) Is this a criticism? I suppose it is, but it is mainly meant as an observation of their policy change over the past 10 years or so.
I'm not aware of any other means for inducing greater occurrence of polyploidy in orchids other than the use of colchicine. Anybody..?
I'm not aware of any other means for inducing greater occurrence of polyploidy in orchids other than the use of colchicine. Anybody..?
Breeding.
Achamore
Well-Known Member
Maybe, but it is hard to get 4N children from 2N parents. Colchicine solves that issue.
SlipperFan
Addicted
Stunning, I think.
I only ever heard of the positives of 4n plants, like more vigour, higher temperature tolerance and bigger, better, longer-lasting flowers. There had to be a catch, of course. It only makes sense that poisoning an organism should lead to detrimental effects as well...
I actually have one EYOF plant and it is in spike now. I'm curious as to whether it will have horns, I have no idea if it is 4n, though.
It only makes sense that poisoning an organism should lead to detrimental effects as well...I actually have one EYOF plant and it is in spike now. I'm curious as to whether it will have horns, I have no idea if it is 4n, though.
Hahaha, bet on it.
trdyl
Well-Known Member
Each flower may or may not have horns. These are quite inconsistent in that respect.
You can usually tell Phrags with increased ploidy because their leaves are thicker than usual and in form they are so close together that the foliage appears imbricated.
