Green Maudiae type again -- growing from flask

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Thank you for your info Rose, I should try granular mix for my seedlings next time. :)

Most plants will benefit from added CO2, since their photosynthesis is CO2-limited. But up to a level, because too high CO2 concentration can do more harm than good. There's a paper reporting that cymbidium seedlings can take ultra-high CO2 concentration quite well. I'm not sure about paph?

Thanks David for your info. I made one for my fish tank too, long time ago :) Perhaps I should just give it a try, with a small soda bottle, when the plants have hardened off a bit.
 
There's been a lot going on but I was too lazy to update :p

...Actually even though they are large seedlings, some are etiolated and the leaves somewhat thin, some even with transparent spots or pitting on them. That's why I'm giving them extra high humidity for the first few weeks. I'll see how they go from here....

I mentioned that some leaves had pitting and transparent spots when I
deflasked. Well, this occurred in one of the flasks with heavy sukhakulii
parentage (37.5%), and just a couple days later, I saw these coalescing into
small water-soaked craters, and spread quite fast into healthy tissue, so I
had to slice off numerous leaf tips with scalpel.
55.jpg



In the past I never had to use fungicides for my flaskling, but I had no
choice this time. I sprayed them with Benlate/Mancozeb mixture at 1g+3g/L,
and a little into the medium too.
56.jpg



By doing so I've wetted the moss too much. I placed the pots over tissue
and some newspapers overnight to blot the excess moisture.
57.jpg



As the leaves dried overnight, I removed the cling wrap cover.
58.jpg



I guess the light was too much for the afflicted plants so I reduced it by
putting a couple translucent folders on the glass pane.
59.jpg



Despite the ugly blotches of residue the fungicide controlled the spread of
disease quickly. Over the next two weeks, I slowly increased air opening
from the small corner opening to quite a large gap, this is how they look now,
so far so good and I haven't lost a single plant yet.
60.jpg



Most of the cuts have healed nicely like this.
61.jpg



But some continue to spread albeit slowly. Here's one with recurring disease,
and one with new disease developing.
62.jpg



New touble brewing; the one circled is a rot on lower leaf that has stopped and dried nicely.
63.jpg



I guess I'll have to recut and repeat the spray these few days. I plan to use
propiconazole this time. Good thing I always keep all sorts of fungicides
handy (for my roses), I have five different types of them! :p The plants from
the other flask was very healthy, and it was mostly from regular
lawrenceanum/callosum parentage. Some have begun nice growth.
64.jpg
65.jpg



From my limited past experience with the maudiaes, I found them to be very
forgiving of stagnant conditions but I guess I have to be more careful next
time. I guess the rot found chance to spread, because one flask already had
trouble brewing in it. Or, perhaps the sukhakulii parentage might be a factor
too? (Maybe it hates stagnant condition? Someone can shed light on this?)

CO2 is out of the question now, I'll definitely try it but not until they make
some strong growth. I'll sanitize/leach/fertilize in a few days and I'll post again about it. ^^
 
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Your leaf tip spotting/rot occurs in the greenhouse too. Which is not stagnant.

Uh oh, I just thought of calcium deficiency problems. Some plants (letuce, lilies etc) experience dieback from the leaf tips when the air is too stagnant and transpiration is low. In such condition calcium cannot be transported properly and the extremities suffer first. I wonder if it might be this? :confused::confused:

A way to tell if its infection or physiological disease is to perform some simple culture/inoculation tests from the necrotic tissue extracts based on Koch's postulates, but unfortunately I'm no longer working in plant pathology lab now.
 
A way to tell if its infection or physiological disease is to perform some simple culture/inoculation tests from the necrotic tissue extracts based on Koch's postulates, but unfortunately I'm no longer working in plant pathology lab now.

No!!!! Not Koch's postulates... :sob: :sob: That means you have to purposely infect and kill some more seedlings... :p
 
Not to kill them, but to infect them until they get sick then treat them to cure the disease :p Well, yes, I know what you mean, they may just die after infection. My undergrad professor does tomato disease research. I wonder how many hundreds of tomato plants she has infected and killed :D
 
An update:

The seedlings on the day of deflasking 9 months ago...
51.jpg


...and today
IMG_9741.jpg

Please pardon the blurred covering in the second pic, since I haven't
changed the cling wrap covering of the fish tank. :p

There was some leaf dieback in the first few weeks after deflasking, which
went under control after some fungicide spray. I'm glad to say all of the
seedlings have survived. ^^

These maudiae-type seedlings grow very well in dried sphagnum, and they
can tolerate stagnant atmosphere very well. I used the same method when I
first deflasked my first batch of maudiae-type seedlings few years ago with
similar good results. But the same cannot be said for Paph. sanderianum and
thaianum seedlings, they just did not grow well compotted in sphagnum in a
covered fish tank.

Some pics of healthy roots:
IMG_9724.jpg


IMG_9727.jpg


Here are the two groups of seedlings.

Paph. Dragon Knife 'Shapely' HCC/AOS X Hsinying Citron 'Ching Hua Giant' GM/TPS
50.jpg


IMG_9719.jpg


I took a cutting from one of the seedlings, and potted it in straight CHC. It's
growing a couple healthy roots several months into the CHC.
IMG_9730.jpg


IMG_9731.jpg


The top growth is not so satisfactory, but the plant has not been fertilized
at all after potting in CHC.


The other group is Paph. Hsinying Citron X sib. ('C.H.#4' SM/TPS X 'Ching Hua Giant' GM/TPS)
47.jpg


IMG_9721.jpg

I took top cuttings from 12 seedlings, and luckily both all the top and stump
parts survived, so now I have 12 extra pieces in the group. :D The pot in the
front left contains all the stump, while the cut tops are grown in the two
pots next to it.

The smallest of the lot of Hsinying Citron X sib....
48.jpg


...has caught up nicely :)
IMG_9737.jpg


The seedlings were hardly fertilized during these nine months, I think they
would have grown better if I had been more diligent in feeding them. I'm also
very interested in using straight CHC for my maudiaes now, since the
maudiae roots seem to tolerate saturated/dry cycles while in CHC, whereas
I find maudiaes grown in straight sphagnum must be watered very carefully,
i.e. the roots can only tolerate half-saturated/dry cycles and will suffer and
lose the growing tips if the sphagnum is allowed to become too wet.
 
So does your moss dry out at all? I am having trouble growing Phrag seedlings in moss let alone growing paph seedlings in it.

I don't doubt it will work for you but I hope it doesn't stay to wet for to long. They are sensational seedlings and some great possibilities there. I might give something like that a try next time I buy some flasks.

Thanks for sharing.
 
Hardy, what light source are you using over the fish tank? One of your pictures shows the reflection of 2 compact fluorescent tubes. Are they 12W each? What spectrum? Are they bulbs for aquarium use eg. 'plant growth' spectrum?
I've been using the same sort of setup with my de-flasks with a lot of success but wonder if I'm using too much light. My plants aren't as vigorous (though I'm growing most multiflorals).

Thanks
 
Hardy, what light source are you using over the fish tank? One of your pictures shows the reflection of 2 compact fluorescent tubes. Are they 12W each? What spectrum? Are they bulbs for aquarium use eg. 'plant growth' spectrum?
I've been using the same sort of setup with my de-flasks with a lot of success but wonder if I'm using too much light. My plants aren't as vigorous (though I'm growing most multiflorals).

Thanks

There is a picture of the lamp he's using in the first post of this topic. :poke:
 
To Bolero:

Yes, I let the moss become almost dry (turn completely pale but not bone dry) before watering again, and then I never let the moss become really wet when watering the plants.

To Ozpaph:

The photo of the packaging is of the 27W, 4-pronged compact fluorescent. I did not use that for the tank, the ones I'm using are the 13W, 2-pronged type. The specifications are all the same though, same brand, same spectrum (i.e. 6500K).
 
To Ozpaph:

The photo of the packaging is of the 27W, 4-pronged compact fluorescent. I did not use that for the tank, the ones I'm using are the 13W, 2-pronged type. The specifications are all the same though, same brand, same spectrum (i.e. 6500K).

So, about 26W at about 20cm from the plants.
Don't suppose you have a lux meter? Could you take some readings at the level of the leaves?
I'm using 75W and the growth isn't as prodigious as yours. Wonder if I'm giving them too much light?
 
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