How to prevent erwinia?

[richgarrison]

This was mentioned in the AOS magazine before but I have been using this and most of the time if caught early when small you may even save the infected leaf. I use Neutrogena for stubborn Acne. It is basically a benzoyl peroxide. Just use a cotton bud and apply around the infected part. If it is already inside the tissue creeping up, i just cut the leaf then apply alcohol,,dry, then apply this cream. Some infection does start from within specially with specimen plants. I just cut that growth to the base and apply the cream on the cut and let it sip in. Let it dry for at least three days.

Any chance you could reference that article?

 

[gego]

It might have been in one of the articles last year. About general orchid culture. You might be able to search in the AOS website. Or you may search here as this was also mentioned here. It is basically the same peroxide in hydrogen peroxide. It oxidize any organic matter. This has only 10% and is sticky so it does not spread easily to areas you don't what to be treated. A 3% hydrogen peroxide is strong enough to enter into the flesh and will burn a leaf especially if it is a young leaf. That is why I prefer this.

 

[Elite Orchids]

I use bacillus subtilis and amyloliquefaciens, first one commercial name is serenade it works also against pseudomonas and other bacteria as well as fungi always as preventative

hi - i have heard of this, but not found it in small quanities - the big tubs are £150 each - do you think it is worth it? does it genuinely make a difference? can you apply in the same mix as the fertiliser?

 

[Phaladdict]

hi - i have heard of this, but not found it in small quanities - the big tubs are £150 each - do you think it is worth it? does it genuinely make a difference? can you apply in the same mix as the fertiliser?

Mark, I'm Gianfranco, will send you some to try, it exist also in kg box for less then 40 euros

 

[richgarrison]

i went hunting for it, and found it ... it's under the Bayer brand

 

[Elite Orchids]

i went hunting for it, and found it ... it's under the Bayer brand

thank you - there seems to be a liquid and powder version.

 

[richgarrison]

@Elite Orchids ...not that it is going to be very definitive, i'd love to hear about your experience (positive/negative, can't tell any difference)... i will likely give it a try if i can get some with minimal effort... my expectation is that even if this 'could' work effectively, the barrage of chemicals i use on a relatively frequent basis will kill off any beneficial bacteria serenade may provide.

 

[Ray]

I use bacillus subtilis and amyloliquefaciens, first one commercial name is serenade it works also against pseudomonas and other bacteria as well as fungi always as preventative

of the approximately dozen microbes in Quantum-Total, Bacillus amyloliquefaciens and B. subtilis are the two with the highest guaranteed concentrations.

@Elite Orchids ...not that it is going to be very definitive, i'd love to hear about your experience (positive/negative, can't tell any difference)... i will likely give it a try if i can get some with minimal effort... my expectation is that even if this 'could' work effectively, the barrage of chemicals i use on a relatively frequent basis will kill off any beneficial bacteria serenade may provide.

Rich - What chemicals do you need to use that much? Generally, I have found that regular use of such probiotic products preclude the need for other controls.

 

[richgarrison]

between the quarterly sprays for scale etc (distance, acephate, merit) ... and the occasional pageant sprays when i see more rot than i can stand...

that's about it (but to me seems significant)...

sometimes when we do the quarterly spray late in the day we'll add some copper (Phyton)

 

[Ray]

Honestly, I believe that if a you were to do a regular probiotic treatment, you could likely stop all of those.

 

[Elite Orchids]

Honestly, I believe that if a you were to do a regular probiotic treatment, you could likely stop all of those.

Ray - what are you thoughts on Serenade - either liquid or powder?? i use a weak h202 as a flush wash once a month - would this instantly kill the good bacteria in Serenade? thanks

 

[richgarrison]

@Ray Ya i hear ya... and with the summer months coming and my rot typically reducing in instances... i may in fact try that..

but even with the good weather and ventilation i found this while watering today... brand new hangianum seedling from Sam. before and after hacking. i suspect i'll lose it. :-(

 

[Phaladdict]

I have to say thath to me erwinia happens almost every time I recieve new plants, from some vendors more than others... Then apart this it happens just once in a while but with new plants is starting to be a problem these days

 

[Ray]

Ray - what are you thoughts on Serenade - either liquid or powder?? i use a weak h202 as a flush wash once a month - would this instantly kill the good bacteria in Serenade? thanks

Serenade is just a Bacillus subtilis inoculant, but any disinfectant/biocide will kill the microbes in any product.

 

[fibre]

I have to say thath to me erwinia happens almost every time I recieve new plants, from some vendors more than others... Then apart this it happens just once in a while but with new plants is starting to be a problem these days

Often those Paphs are grown in warm climate with lot of N and under low light. They grow too fast! That's why they are so prone to rot. And those Paphs are very stressed if you don't give them very similar conditions. You have to adapt them very slowly.

 

[Duck Slipper]

I will agree with rot occurring on new plants. I just assumed it was from the stresses of changing environment and shipping. Being thrown into a box for a couple days (at the shortest) with strong changes in temperature, would certainly increase susceptibility to rot. Also, damaged tissue, that might not even be visible, would be highly susceptible to rot. Duck

 

[spujr]

I treat with orchids for about 30 years.With slippers for about ten.I think the most devastating danger for slippers is Erwinia.I have not had it for 2 years.Now i noticed it in early stage on 2 of my plants.It begins the outest and lowerest leaf at the base as a brownish orange wet spot and spreading rapidly not just toward the affected leaf but inside the base of the crown( to the heart of plant).I know it can be stopped maybe with dragoon blood.I tried it without succes.My experience is that if a plant got erwinia, will die.Can be treated and maybe stopped disease for a while, but this beast will kill plant with time.My question to growers who never had it: how to do?

Hi reviving this thread out of curiosity if you had better luck controlling erwinia.

Also curious if using Serenade has been helpful for anyone.

I water early in the morning followed by a lot of air movement for 4 hours but still been having problems with erwinia. In nature plants get water overhead repeatedly so I feel like there's more to the story than just keeping the leaves dry.

Xavier mentioned that sanderianum are prone to erwinia problems at high pH levels. My water+fertilizer pH is about 6.25 and I am wondering if I should get it lower?

Also thinking of dumping in a bottle of 3% h2o2 in my 55gal drum.

 

[big923cattleya]

I just had a thought for what it might be worth.
I am no Paphiopedilum expert like so many of you are. I am just an old school grower who does not like to use chemicals on anything. I have grown a good number of Paphs in my time and I can honestly say that I never have suspected that I lost a single plant to Erwinia. Not a one. And the only thing I can suggest is that I have always tried to keep water out of the 'crowns' of the slippers. I pot water from above but very carefully. I use a watering wand with a narrow head. And along with that I have always used an abundance of air movement. I like a light breeze blowing right over the tops of the plants. Now that I am 6 years under lights here in Michigan, the fans are on the same timers with the lights. I too water early in the day.
The only other thing I can add is plant spacing. Good air movement over plants that are spaced too tightly, too close together might hinder or block what you might think is good air movement. In Florida out of doors where the Paphs' got water in the crowns all of the time from rain showers, I did not lose any there either. I was there 9 years. Why do I think that was? Very good air movement and plant spacing.

 

[mrhappyrotter]

Also curious if using Serenade has been helpful for anyone.

The biological product that works best for me is called Actinovate. It's Streptomyces lydicus.

Erwinia is not one of the diseases listed on its label. But, it does list many other problematic species like Botrytis and Fusarium as well as various leaf spotting diseases so it's a useful product just from that standpoint. Despite not being officially listed, I've found Actinovate to be very effective for control of Erwinia in my collection. It doesn't mean I don't still get the occaisonal Erwinia rot on susceptible plants, but I have seen a dramatic improvement.

Actinovate has one (in my opinion) major advantage over Serenade and the stuff that Ray sells (both of which I have tried multiple times): I can use it more preventatively on my indoor collection than the other products, which might explain why I have more success with this product than the others.

Actinovate is completely odorless (it's a powder you mix with water), whereas the awful smell of the other products I've tried make them unsuitable for me to use. I can handle the stench, but the other members of my household cannot, and it's frankly embarassing to have guests over when my house smells like stinky athletic sneakers (Serenade) or putrid garbage funk (Ray's product).

The main downsides to Actinovate for me, are the fact that it's expensive and it can sometimes be hard to find for sale, as many vendors run out of stock on a somewhat frequent basis. As for the expense, it's actually not terrible when you consider it on a per dose / per application level, but the stuff is fairly expensive to buy by the packet.

The reason I tried Actinovate (whether scientifically solid or not): Agricultural streptomycin (antibiotic) is very effective at controlling Erwinia. I have used it in very limited quantities in my collection as a last resort, but I was not really comfortable using an antibiotic indoors like this. My theory was, since Actinovate contains a species of Streptomyces (the genus for which streptomycin is named), there was a chance that it would provide more targeted and "natural" antibiotic control of gram negative bacteria like Eriwnia.

 

[awesomei]

Hello,
I am a retired dentist. I have found Chlorohexadine to be very effectine in the human. I was wondering how it might be for plant diseases??? Just a curious thought.
George