"Improve genetics" in Phrags (4N, 3N, Better colors and shapes)

[Cach26]

Hello everyone

It's Phrags and Paph Blooming Season!

I was looking at the OrchidWeb plants, and I'm curious about the 4N and 3N Symbols, as I see, they are "genetic studs" with perfect shapes and colors that hit your eyes XD

My questions are:

How is a 4N, or genetic sire, obtained or created?

Are they just amazing 1 in a million plants?

Or have crosses been carried out for generations of the same species to obtain them?

How do you identify a 4N or 3N?

 

[terryros]

I will try to keep this simple. A 4N and 3N designation is short hand for tetraploid and triploid, which mean that a plant has extra genetic material. Most normal plants are 2N, or diploid. Tetraploid indicates twice the number of genes as a diploid and triploid means half again as many genes. In general, tetraploid (4N) plants breed easier than triploids. However, 3N plants can be very nice and may grow more quickly than 4N.

4N and 3N plants can either arise as natural mutations during the normal breeding process OR they can be chemically induced during the breeding process. It is not easy to tell for sure if a plant has extra genes. Counting the genes is a picky, tedious process and full DNA analysis of a plant is not routine. Sometimes a plant is considered to have extra genes because of how the plant and flowers look compared to others, but this doesn't have to be from a whole extra set or two of genes. It could just be from certain mutations in existing genes.

In general, tetraploid plants have wider and thicker leaves, but can be slower growing. The flowers can be larger with greater substance and longevity. Sometimes coloration can be more intense.

When you get a 4N plant you can be hopeful for an improved flower but you may need patience for the longer ime it takes to get the flower.

 

[Heather]

Great explanation!

 

[Cach26]

Intentaré mantener esto simple. Una designación 4N y 3N es una abreviatura de tetraploide y triploide, lo que significa que una planta tiene material genético adicional. La mayoría de las plantas normales son 2N o diploides. Tetraploide indica el doble de genes que un diploide y triploide significa la mitad de genes. En general, las plantas tetraploides (4N) se reproducen más fácilmente que las triploides. Sin embargo, las plantas 3N pueden ser muy bonitas y crecer más rápidamente que las 4N.

Las plantas 4N y 3N pueden surgir como mutaciones naturales durante el proceso de reproducción normal O pueden ser inducidas químicamente durante el proceso de reproducción. No es fácil saber con certeza si una planta tiene genes adicionales. Contar los genes es un proceso tedioso y delicado, y el análisis completo del ADN de una planta no es una rutina. A veces se considera que una planta tiene genes adicionales debido al aspecto de la planta y las flores en comparación con otras, pero esto no tiene por qué ser de uno o dos conjuntos adicionales de genes. Podría deberse simplemente a ciertas mutaciones en genes existentes.

En general, las plantas tetraploides tienen hojas más anchas y gruesas, pero pueden crecer más lentamente. Las flores pueden ser más grandes, con mayor sustancia y longevidad. En ocasiones la coloración puede ser más intensa.

Cuando obtienes una planta 4N, puedes tener la esperanza de obtener una flor mejorada, pero es posible que necesites paciencia durante el tiempo que lleva obtener la flor.

Excellent explanation, it is very clear, although they are beautiful, I prefer to improve my cultivation and make my 2N improve themselves XD, the 4N and 3N are very expensive

 

[southernbelle]

Excellent explanation, it is very clear, although they are beautiful, I prefer to improve my cultivation and make my 2N improve themselves XD, the 4N and 3N are very expensive

Seedlings can be had for $100. Not cheap but with such great promise not unreasonable and not out of reach for many. I purchased a 3N seedling from Orchids Ltd. When a breeder like Jerry Fischer says that many from a cross of exceptional parents have and will be award quality it can be trusted. That is the only plant I have that has won me an award.
On second bloom it was awarded a 79 pt HCC. One darn point shy of an AM!! I was thrilled as I knew I liked it, but had no idea is was awardable. It was blooming, so I took it in to my first Paph Forum and voila! Obviously made my day. Oh, and it also won Best Species rosette that year!
P. delenatii 'Deborah's Delight (3N)' 'Pink Lady' x 'Deerwood' AM/AOS (4N) HCC/AOS

 

[NYEric]

Chemical treating with colchicine is cheaper but, it is a dangerous chemical compound to work with.

 

[Cach26]

Seedlings can be had for $100. Not cheap but with such great promise not unreasonable and not out of reach for many. I purchased a 3N seedling from Orchids Ltd. When a breeder like Jerry Fischer says that many from a cross of exceptional parents have and will be award quality it can be trusted. That is the only plant I have that has won me an award.
On second bloom it was awarded a 79 pt HCC. One darn point shy of an AM!! I was thrilled as I knew I liked it, but had no idea is was awardable. It was blooming, so I took it in to my first Paph Forum and voila! Obviously made my day. Oh, and it also won Best Species rosette that year!
P. delenatii 'Deborah's Delight (3N)' 'Pink Lady' x 'Deerwood' AM/AOS (4N) HCC/AOS

Here the producers of Phrags and Paphs have died, so there is no replacement generation. And there is no production of Lady Slippers

What a joy that you have won a prize, almost an Am!. Since I don't have good genes.
My only option is to find a "genetic stallion" by chance XD

 

[terryros]

Here the producers of Phrags and Paphs have died, so there is no replacement generation. And there is no production of Lady Slippers

What a joy that you have won a prize, almost an Am!. Since I don't have good genes.
My only option is to find a "genetic stallion" by chance XD

We are all losing important breeders and producers of various types of orchids. It is an expensive, difficult business that has trouble making money.

 

[selection5858]

That’s why prices should be higher in general. There was a race to the bottom with phals, which is partly why it’s so tough to be profitable breeding and growing orchids.