Lawrenceanum var. hyeanum

[dodidoki]

From Sam, it was a seedling size plant, last year tried to bloom but dropped away its bud.This year opened. I hope you can see the pics.View attachment IMG_20230507_101129.jpg

 

[GuRu]

For lovers of these green/white flowers it's really gorgeous, Istvan.

 

[monocotman]

It’s very green!

 

[SelectOrchids]

Unfortunately it is an hybrid.... like all the lawrenceanum albinos in the trade today...

If you take away the green color, imagine it colored, you realize that it does not look like at all like a lawrenceanum shape/proportions flowers... The leaves are as well typical of callosum style, not lawrenceanum.

The last one I saw, true one, that died, was a plant grown by Grossraschener in Germany, that he got from Tom Kalina, it was a division of a Clements collection lawrenceanum Hyeanum, and that was the real deal. About 30 years ago. The plant was very weak and did not survive... Since that, there has been no lawrenceanum albinos in cultivation...

 

[dodidoki]

Unfortunately it is an hybrid.... like all the lawrenceanum albinos in the trade today...

If you take away the green color, imagine it colored, you realize that it does not look like at all like a lawrenceanum shape/proportions flowers... The leaves are as well typical of callosum style, not lawrenceanum.

The last one I saw, true one, that died, was a plant grown by Grossraschener in Germany, that he got from Tom Kalina, it was a division of a Clements collection lawrenceanum Hyeanum, and that was the real deal. About 30 years ago. The plant was very weak and did not survive... Since that, there has been no lawrenceanum albinos in cultivation...

Thank you Xavier.Could you say some words abut real plant?

 

[SelectOrchids]

Thank you Xavier.Could you say some words abut real plant?

There were already a lot of 'fakes' in the 80s and 90s, as the original one was very hard to grow.

Actually, few lawrenceanum original plants survived, until its rediscovery in the very late 90s, where some more wild plants appeared, some much bigged leafed than the old ones we had in culture... Strangely all the 'real' lawrenceanum have a very identical leaf style and pattern, old and new ones, there is not so much variation in the leaves, unlike callosum.

From that, I remember people scouting old collections looking for something that looks like albino lawrenceanum, and some others doing 'line breeding' to get albino lawrenceanum back in culture.

The only one that was exactly as we imagine was lawrenceanum hyeanum 'Clements', that came from Tom Kalina back them as a tiny plant. It bloomed in Germany, and was the real one. Which means, the shape of a normal lawrenceanum, but green and white. This pland died without any progeny.

The others, I bought quite a few of those other lawrenceanum 'albinos'. When you self them, or when you buy flasks, you have a wide array of leaves. Lawrenceanum has a 'dry' leaf type, hard to explain, but it is not juicy like a callosum or most Maudiae... The dorsal on these are usually too round or extravagant to be a normal lawrenceanum.

If you color the picture of your flower, you will see what I mean, the end result does not look like at all a lawrenceanum...

For me, lawrenceanum hyeanum is extinct in culture since a very long time... the same for the original callosum sanderae ( there are other albino callosum however around, not like lawrenceanum).

 

[dodidoki]

There were already a lot of 'fakes' in the 80s and 90s, as the original one was very hard to grow.

Actually, few lawrenceanum original plants survived, until its rediscovery in the very late 90s, where some more wild plants appeared, some much bigged leafed than the old ones we had in culture... Strangely all the 'real' lawrenceanum have a very identical leaf style and pattern, old and new ones, there is not so much variation in the leaves, unlike callosum.

From that, I remember people scouting old collections looking for something that looks like albino lawrenceanum, and some others doing 'line breeding' to get albino lawrenceanum back in culture.

The only one that was exactly as we imagine was lawrenceanum hyeanum 'Clements', that came from Tom Kalina back them as a tiny plant. It bloomed in Germany, and was the real one. Which means, the shape of a normal lawrenceanum, but green and white. This pland died without any progeny.

The others, I bought quite a few of those other lawrenceanum 'albinos'. When you self them, or when you buy flasks, you have a wide array of leaves. Lawrenceanum has a 'dry' leaf type, hard to explain, but it is not juicy like a callosum or most Maudiae... The dorsal on these are usually too round or extravagant to be a normal lawrenceanum.

If you color the picture of your flower, you will see what I mean, the end result does not look like at all a lawrenceanum...

For me, lawrenceanum hyeanum is extinct in culture since a very long time... the same for the original callosum sanderae ( there are other albino callosum however around, not like lawrenceanum).

Thank you, very interesting infos.Is there available picture about the original plant?

 

[dodidoki]

If i imagine this in geen and white, i think, mine( Sam's plant) is not fake. I tried to find original pic, drawings or fotos, but I could not.

 

[Guldal]

From Sam, it was a seedling size plant, last year tried to bloom but dropped away its bud.This year opened. I hope you can see the pics.View attachment 40253

Wunderbar, Istvan!

 

[Guldal]

For lovers of these green/white flowers it's really gorgeous...

Of whom you are not one!

 

[SelectOrchids]

It existed in fact 2 'hyeanum' around....

One was the albino

http://www.slipperorchids.info/paph...lawrenceanum/Lindenia1885(01)042(hyeanum).jpg
and the other one was a very strange semialbum ( albino like flower, but black dots). That one did not survive the XXth century for certain...

https://www.panteek.com/Reichenbachia/pages/ROX23-462.htm
( the photo you posted is an albino-type by a lawrenceanum, so we are back to the hybrids as well...)

Now the problems are:

- The leaves look quite thick, where Lawrenceanum has skinny leaves, difficult to explain, but thick leaves like that always points to callosum.
- For the flower, it is better if you see it in black and white I think....




Then it is easy to realize that the dorsal does not match any known lawrenceanum, the shape, the proportion to the total flower, and the fact that the lines end up at the sides of the flowers ( which would suggest even some sukhakhulii in the mix...). I would even think it has some sukhakhulli, which would explain the proportions of the dorsal vs the total flowerspan...

That fake albino lawrenceanum story was started a very long time ago, with lawrenceanum hyeanum 'Tradition' that was a Maudiae seedling to start with. When selfed, you get back dropping petals etc... from the callosum. Instead of stopping that mess, most growers 'selected' out of that hybrid the most lawrenceanum albino lookalike and pushed forward. most of the lawrenceanum 'albinos' on the market were bred out of that hybrid...

http://www.orchid.or.jp/orchid/people/paph101/lawrenceanum2.html
That's a complete page about lawrenceanum 'Tradition', and it is easy to see it is a Maudiae type...

 

[GuRu]

Of whom you are not one!

Jens, I included me, of course I am one .... did I express this unclearly in my post ?

 

[dodidoki]

It existed in fact 2 'hyeanum' around....

One was the albino

http://www.slipperorchids.info/paph...lawrenceanum/Lindenia1885(01)042(hyeanum).jpg
and the other one was a very strange semialbum ( albino like flower, but black dots). That one did not survive the XXth century for certain...

https://www.panteek.com/Reichenbachia/pages/ROX23-462.htm
( the photo you posted is an albino-type by a lawrenceanum, so we are back to the hybrids as well...)

Now the problems are:

- The leaves look quite thick, where Lawrenceanum has skinny leaves, difficult to explain, but thick leaves like that always points to callosum.
- For the flower, it is better if you see it in black and white I think....

View attachment 40292


Then it is easy to realize that the dorsal does not match any known lawrenceanum, the shape, the proportion to the total flower, and the fact that the lines end up at the sides of the flowers ( which would suggest even some sukhakhulii in the mix...). I would even think it has some sukhakhulli, which would explain the proportions of the dorsal vs the total flowerspan...

That fake albino lawrenceanum story was started a very long time ago, with lawrenceanum hyeanum 'Tradition' that was a Maudiae seedling to start with. When selfed, you get back dropping petals etc... from the callosum. Instead of stopping that mess, most growers 'selected' out of that hybrid the most lawrenceanum albino lookalike and pushed forward. most of the lawrenceanum 'albinos' on the market were bred out of that hybrid...

http://www.orchid.or.jp/orchid/people/paph101/lawrenceanum2.html
That's a complete page about lawrenceanum 'Tradition', and it is easy to see it is a Maudiae type...

Dear Xavier.This story of fake hyeanums reminds me to the story of vietnamense album.I saw only one pic in the book of Olaf Gruss.Few years ago many seedlings were sold in trade but all turned to be Ho Chi Mihn album.... If I mean well,surely true hyeanum is not exist this time at all.

 

[SelectOrchids]

Dear Xavier.This story of fake hyeanums reminds me to the story of vietnamense album.I saw only one pic in the book of Olaf Gruss.Few years ago many seedlings were sold in trade but all turned to be Ho Chi Mihn album.... If I mean well,surely true hyeanum is not exist this time at all.

Yes that's the problem indeed... There were real viet albums however, but exceedingly rare.

The same happened with some of the malipo album that are malipo x jackii albums F2, they were produced by Klinge, and I saw a couple F2 'albino malipo' around, out of coloured ones. purpuratum albums, there are 3 in circulation, one that are straight purpuratum out of Schwerter with a nice tag ( if it does not bloom alba normal, it happens blah blah blah), few real albums, and quite a few hybrids. There are photos, as a large batch of purpuratum albums ended up in Dalat and bloomed some weeks ago. Some are named purpuratum album, some callosum album, etc... make your choice. It will add to the confusion, as their owners will start to say those are 'wild original plants', of course from Vietnam...

There are many fake vietnamense around as well, with pink in the staminode, and if you don't see the complete batch in flower, some with delenatii petals and pouches, some with pink staminode, you can never realize, if you are presented with 1 plant in flower, carefully chosen, only...

Orchids is a business, that is kind of unregulated, that's what most people forget. For most it is not art, but just an income.

 

[DrLeslieEe]

Very educational post indeed. Learn so much on this forum!

Provenance is important here.

 

[Hilmar]

hi,

I got some young plants from Sam many years ago, that was one result, I think it fits well to the original description. Also the plant`s culture behavior fits to lawrenceanum

 

[SelectOrchids]

Looking at the shape dorsal, it is definitely not a lawrenceanum but a complex Maudiae type. A photo of the leaves is useful as well, because lawrenceanum has nearly no variation in the leaf pattern, unlike callosum. Plants from 100 years ago and the recent collection have clearly identical leaf pattern.

Here is how a lawrenceanum hyeanum looked like:

http://www.slipperorchids.info/paph...lawrenceanum/Lindenia1885(01)042(hyeanum).jpg
The dorsal and flower shape are completely different.

Especially important is that the top of the dorsal is more 'flattened', than in the hybrids, where it is pointing more smoothly.

 

[SelectOrchids]

And here is 'Abino Jamboree', which has the dorsal shape and marks of a true lawrenceanum hyeanum. Nothing in common, and that variety is definitely extinct in culture.

 

[SelectOrchids]

To put the nail in the coffin, another hyeanum, 'Alfredo'. Note again the very specific shape of hyeanum, that is long gone.

 

[DrLeslieEe]

So where is the real hyeanum at today? Popow’s?