LED flat panel lighting question

[ALToronto]

I'm not sure if the spectrum of a household-grade LED panel would be appropriate for orchids (or any plants). My former neighbour had a flat light panel for SAD treatment - Seasonal Affective Disorder - a form of depression that affects some people in the winter and on cloudy days, when we get diminished light levels. Those lights have a higher UV proportion and have a spectrum that closely matches sunlight. If you're going to look outside of plant-growing lights for a wider variety of fixtures, you should look into these SAD treatment panels.

 

[Garr]

Back to my original thread. Is anyone out there using flat panel LED lights for growing orchids? This would be sole light source in a basement.

I have about 160 orchid plants, I focus mostly on species and I have a lot of cattleyas. I have about 40 different species of cattleya and also laelia, encyclia, epindendrum etc. I have about half a dozen paphiopedilum species - henryanum, venustum, delenatii, barbatum are the ones that I can remember off hand. I also have a few each of gongora, stanhopea, angraecum, phalaenopsis, dendrochilum etc.

These links have a couple photos of my orchid room. I started constructing it about 2 years ago. These photos were taken about a year ago, I have a lot more plants now.
http://www.orchidboard.com/communit...essure-1000-psi-fog-systems-3.html#post506771

http://www.orchidboard.com/communit...s/60598-homemade-led-lightbar.html#post505567

Thanks for the pictures David. It's a very clean set-up. It looks like you're using the LEDs to supplement natural light. I wish I had a space like yours but I'm in a sealed grow room in a converted two car garage so the LEDs are my only light source.

 

[Garr]

I'm not sure if the spectrum of a household-grade LED panel would be appropriate for orchids (or any plants). My former neighbour had a flat light panel for SAD treatment - Seasonal Affective Disorder - a form of depression that affects some people in the winter and on cloudy days, when we get diminished light levels. Those lights have a higher UV proportion and have a spectrum that closely matches sunlight. If you're going to look outside of plant-growing lights for a wider variety of fixtures, you should look into these SAD treatment panels.

I agree with Al on this. It's PAR light that you want. Plants and people don't respond to the same spectrum. An LED fixture not configured specifically for growing plants will provide wavelengths which are of little or no use by plants. Although I am growing exclusively under LED lights, I don't particularly like the pink/purple color rendering so I have ceiling mounted fluorescent fixtures which I have on anytime I'm in the room watering, re-potting, de-flasking and so on.

 

[junglejim]

Jim,
My grow room is in a two car garage and uses LEDs as sole source light. Each fixture has 240 - 3 watt LEDS in 12 orbs drawing 360 watts of current. These fixtures are designed for commercial greenhouses and measure 21"x16"x3". Is this what you mean by flat panel?

They do look like the SAD lights that people sit next to in the winter as mentioned. They are boxy and go into lowered ceilings like in hallways. You can get the LEDs in a5000 K option. Bulbs.com, OL, enviroasis are carrying them. They emit white light.

 

[MorandiWine]

Jim,

I have a grow room that doubles as a fish room as well as a green house in the back yard. I use the all white LEDs from Apache Tech. Contrary to what was said about LEDs in this thread I feel that they are far superior to all other forms of artificial light. If you have any questions about them please feel free to PM me as to not muddy the thread.

Tyler

 

[DavidCampen]

You mean like these:
https://www.orchidweb.com/products/led-flat-panel-2x2x3~3174.html

I don't see what advantage they will have over T5 fluorescent.

 

[MorandiWine]

Speaking from experience with that particular panel and other like it, you get what you pay for. Cheap LEDs = sub par (pun intended) lighting. Not all LEDs are alike and that is where many studies and almost all nay-sayers go wrong. Likes like comparing a Yugo to a BMW after driving only the Yugo saying that it handles horribly so the BMW would also handle miserably. A good quality chip will produce good quality light energy.
This all being said, use a light that does what it is supposed to do and has a track record. I went with Apache because I used them for growing corals and then went to the Stanford research greenhouses and saw the exact same lights being used for agriculture. Asked my friend who is an assistant there and he said that they have cut grow time almost in half and dont burn the plants like HPS and MH. All things I assumed after using them for coral and seeing incredible results after removing the 400 watt HQI's.
Sooooo i let results show me the way and not rely on possible biased studies on a multilayered (in available quality) type of light.
I am sure that David is going to jump in and tell me i am wrong but the proof is in the pudding. I dont do drugs, just wine. So I am not imagining things, it is for real.
Tyler

 

[naoki]

Garr, so your 360W LED fixture can cover the entire 2-car garage? Which brand/model are you using? Or did you build it? Is it noisy?

 

[littlefrog]

Jim,

I don't recommend the square panels to anyone anymore, it seems like a good idea, none of them hold up to actual use. After a year, or less, they almost always start to fail.

I have had good luck with other types, and can offer some suggestions by PM. I have been growing under almost exclusively LEDs for two full winters (and paphs and phrags longer because they stay inside in the summer). Best thing ever? Probably not, but I am not switching back, just upgrading tech as it comes along.

(Small) commercial scale, my entire utility bill for several thousand plants, including both light and heat, is less than 500 per month in January...

Rob

 

[Garr]

Garr, so your 360W LED fixture can cover the entire 2-car garage? Which brand/model are you using? Or did you build it? Is it noisy?

Naoki,
My grow room is 16'x12' built inside a two car garage. One, 360w fixture covers a 2'x4' area so two fixtures cover a 4'x8' bench at a ride height of 48". The model is a Helios 420, a Chinese made fixture. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the technology keeps galloping along yielding higher performance lights while the prices continue to drop. If I were shopping today, I would check out LumiGrow http://www.lumigrow.com/products/pro-series-greenhouse-lights/, a California based manufacturer.

Back in the early 80's, I wrote an article in the now defunct Canadian Orchid Journal on growing under fluorescent lights. Although still a perfectly viable option for growing out flasks, compots and seedlings, growing and blooming mature Paphs, especially some of the larger multi-florals is problematic under fluorescent lights. It can be done but heat buildup becomes a real issue. The price spread between between the Chinese products and the NA made units has been dropping to the point where it's starting to make sense.

Controlling heat build up in these fixtures is important so all of these fixtures use pancake fans similar to the fans used to cool PCs. The light sounds like a large PC running.

 

[DavidCampen]

Naoki,
My grow room is 16'x12' built inside a two car garage. One, 360w fixture covers a 2'x4' area so two fixtures cover a 4'x8' bench at a ride height of 48". The model is a Helios 420, a Chinese made fixture. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the technology keeps galloping along yielding higher performance lights while the prices continue to drop. If I were shopping today, I would check out LumiGrow http://www.lumigrow.com/products/pro-series-greenhouse-lights/, a California based manufacturer.

It is too bad that LumiGrow refuses to give actual PAR measurements, prefering marketing hype instead. I would have hoped that they could have figured out how to use a Li-Cor Quantum PAR Sensor.

They torture the facts a bit to be able to conclude that their fixtures are 2 to 3 times more efficient than HID.

 

[DavidCampen]

Jim,

I don't recommend the square panels to anyone anymore, it seems like a good idea, none of them hold up to actual use. After a year, or less, they almost always start to fail.
Rob

That is a significant issue with LED fixtures. Unlike a fluorescent or HPS fixture, building an energy efficient and long lasting LED fixture requires a significant amount of knowledge and engineering design effort. It is easy though to build an LED fixture that will put out some light for a while but is very inefficient and wont last long - there are a lot of junky LED fixtures like that coming out of China.

 

[Garr]

It is too bad that LumiGrow refuses to give actual PAR measurements, prefering marketing hype instead. I would have hoped that they could have figured out how to use a Li-Cor Quantum PAR Sensor.

They torture the facts a bit to be able to conclude that their fixtures are 2 to 3 times more efficient than HID.

They have figured out how to use a Li-Cor quantum PAR sensor but generally won't share the data. And yes, it is unfortunate that they somehow feel the need to distort the facts when a strong case can be built for the technology without resorting to smoke and mirrors. David, please email me through contacts and I'll send you complete data in µmol/m2*sec for both the 325 and the 650 models as well as footprint and ride height data. This web site will not allow me to paste an image otherwise I would post it here.

As regards Chinese fixtures, the key to satisfaction is to understand what you're shopping for and a reputable distributor who will stand behind the product after the point of sale. The far east does not have a corner on the market for junk any more than NA has the market cornered for high quality. There's good stuff and bad stuff everywhere.

 

[DavidCampen]

They have figured out how to use a Li-Cor quantum PAR sensor but generally won't share the data.

It is easy to see why they hide that information since it would show that their LED fixtures are no more efficient than MH or HPS in producing PAR.

 

[junglejim]

That is a significant issue with LED fixtures. Unlike a fluorescent or HPS fixture, building an energy efficient and long lasting LED fixture requires a significant amount of knowledge and engineering design effort. It is easy though to build an LED fixture that will put out some light for a while but is very inefficient and wont last long - there are a lot of junky LED fixtures like that coming out of China.

The metal halide and sodium bulbs are not lasting long like they used to. They may be from China also. Thanks to everyone for your time and thoughts. I will slow down from an impulsive buy.