Leucochilum 'Choy Pau'

[Spaph]

Love the original plant and these two new pics are wild variation in the species!

 

[lepetitmartien]

A beauty, I won't enter on the ID issue, I'm not competent enough.

 

[NYEric]

NYEric, do you consider these two as leucochilum? (Plants and photos are not mine, belonging to their respective owners)

No, I don't. I would kill you to get the top plant but I would not call them leuch's.

In my opinion, ....

Which you are entitled to; but then why have a description that says, "PURE WHITE LIP", instead of what your opinion is???

 

[SlipperFan]

Good flowers, cool name!

 

[paphioboy]

Which you are entitled to; but then why have a description that says, "PURE WHITE LIP", instead of what your opinion is???

The name leucochilum = white lip. My opinion is that there is a gradient in degrees of spotting on the lip within the godefroyae/leucochilum group, so they are not that distinctly apart from one another... This is all assuming the line-breeding was carried out using pure leucochilum, without incorporating other species in the background.

 

[smartie2000]

NYEric, do you consider these two as leucochilum? (Plants and photos are not mine, belonging to their respective owners)


[/URL]

Whoa I have never seen anything like this! (and this is my first ST post for a long time) What is it?

 

[Ozpaph]

#2 with moderate pouch spotting is a godefroyae or mixture between the two species (?varieties) IMHO.

 

[cattmad]

I agree number 2 is godefroyae, but number 1 could be either, I would be happy to call it leuchochilum

 

[NYEric]

Whoa I have never seen anything like this! (and this is my first ST post for a long time) What is it?

Fren Ma!? As I live and speak. I heard you had been et by a bear!

 

[paphioboy]

Both of those red plants were named as leucochilum by their respective growers in Thailand.

 

[NYEric]

If I would have to write leuchochilum on my forehead to get the top one with the solid colors I would do it. But it would be a lie! :evil:

 

[Trithor]

Breathtaking! But. Have to agree with Eric.
Leucochilum is best viewed as a variety of godefroyae distinguished by the absence of colour in the pouch. Spots or otherwise, it is simply that, a white pouch, and all three have colour. For some reason people seem to take exception to their plants being categorized as godefroyae? An exceptional godefroyae is still that, exceptional, it does not need to be a leucochilum to be any better or more desirable.

 

[Happypaphy7]

Paphioboy's opinion totally makes sense.
Then, again, as has been mentioned, leucochilum is just a color variation of godefroyae with white pouch free of any marks or colors.

The question of whether "mutated" offsprings with spotted or colored pouch coming from "pure" leucochilum parents (pure leucochilum in itself does not make sense as they are all godefroyae with pretty much the same genetic make up) are to be called leucochilum or not is a bit more complex issue, I think.

Leucochilum being just a color variation of godefroyae, whatever parents used, if the pouch is not pure white, then a plant whose pouch has any color or marks may not be called leucochilum. In this sense, it's just a simple categorization going by color form, not genetics.

Speaking of genetics, in the end, they are all the same species anyways.

 

[NYEric]

The name leucochilum = white lip. My opinion is that there is a gradient in degrees of spotting on the lip within the godefroyae/leucochilum group, so they are not that distinctly apart from one another... This is all assuming the line-breeding was carried out using pure leucochilum, without incorporating other species in the background.

Paphioboy's opinion totally makes sense.
Then, again, as has been mentioned, leucochilum is just a color variation of godefroyae with white pouch free of any marks or colors.

The question of whether "mutated" offsprings with spotted or colored pouch coming from "pure" leucochilum parents (pure leucochilum in itself does not make sense as they are all godefroyae with pretty much the same genetic make up) are to be called leucochilum or not is a bit more complex issue, I think.

Leucochilum being just a color variation of godefroyae, whatever parents used, if the pouch is not pure white, then a plant whose pouch has any color or marks may not be called leucochilum. In this sense, it's just a simple categorization going by color form, not genetics.

Neil, what are you saying?

 

[Happypaphy7]

Oh, sorry.
I just wanted to say leucochilum- godefroyae with white pouch basically.
I guess it didn't come out right.

 

[NYEric]

Yes, that would be correct.

 

[Stone]

I can contain myself no further!:fight::evil:
leucochilum can have spots on the lip.
http://www.orchid.or.jp/orchid/people/tanaka/Special/leucoThai/enpu2.html

 

[SlipperFan]

So, is the only difference between leucochilum and godefroye pouch speckles? If so, seems like much ado about nothing.

 

[paphioboy]

The question is must the distinction between leuco and gode be all or nothing? If the speckling is an additive trait (e.g. height in humans), it is like asking where do you draw the distinction between tall and short? 170cm? 180cm? What is the cut-off point? My previous opinions, as I have already stated, were based on the assumption that line-breeding was carried out using wild leucochilum to start with. It would be interesting to hear from people who actually breed leucochilum and see if they did get spotted-pouched offspring from a selfing or sibling cross of 2 leucos.

 

[Ozpaph]

I can contain myself no further!:fight::evil:
leucochilum can have spots on the lip.
http://www.orchid.or.jp/orchid/people/tanaka/Special/leucoThai/enpu2.html

Mike, that only proves they have found a flower with spots on the pouch, not that its a 'pure' (whatever that means) leucochilum.
Personally (with no real basis for the opinion) I would accept a few spots as still being leuco.
Does anyone have the original taxonomic description (in English)???