manzurii

[dodidoki]

in bloom

 

[abax]

Extremely cute bloom. I like these petite flowers.

 

[LadySlipper]

Wonderful!

 

[DrLeslieEe]

Nice blooms Istvan... however the red in the staminode rules it out of a manzurii, which has only green and yellow coloration. Likely a schmilii?

There are many sellers out there that may have mistaken their schmiliis as manzuriis inadvertently.

Similarly even renown and trusted websites (like Kew) have posted wrong pics of schmiliis as manzuriis.

Attaching the official description:

http://www.slipperorchids.info/phragdescriptions/descriptionphragmanzurii.pdf
https://www.researchgate.net/public...cially_Described_in_the_Journal_Lankesteriana


And here is the AOS species ID task force (SITF) determining the 'manzurii' with a reddish tint on staminode as a schmilii:

https://www.aos.org/sitf-blog/phragmipedium-schlimii-var-manzurii-2020-02-23.aspx

 

[dodidoki]

Dear Leslie.Many thaks for useful information. I asked about too, because i could not see difference between this and my schlimiis although tag says " manzurii" from Ecugenera.

 

[dodidoki]

Nice blooms Istvan... however the red in the staminode rules it out of a manzurii, which has only green and yellow coloration. Likely a schmilii?

There are many sellers out there that may have mistaken their schmiliis as manzuriis inadvertently.

Similarly even renown and trusted websites (like Kew) have posted wrong pics of schmiliis as manzuriis.

Attaching the official description:

http://www.slipperorchids.info/phragdescriptions/descriptionphragmanzurii.pdf
https://www.researchgate.net/public...cially_Described_in_the_Journal_Lankesteriana


And here is the AOS species ID task force (SITF) determining the 'manzurii' with a reddish tint on staminode as a schmilii:

https://www.aos.org/sitf-blog/phragmipedium-schlimii-var-manzurii-2020-02-23.aspx

If I mean well, it is schlimii, too, isn t?

 

[DrLeslieEe]

If I mean well, it is schlimii, too, isn t?

The staminode has red, so it's a schmilli unfortunately.

 

[eaborne]

Cute!

 

[rauhaariger]

My manzurii just has a bud and I'm very curious if it really is one, since it also comes from Ecuagenera. However, I do wonder if the red in the staminode is really a clear indication that it's not a manzuri. in Olaf Gruß in the book manzurii are shown, which very well also have red in the staminode.

 

[dodidoki]

My schlimii on left and my " said-to-be" manzurii on right, side by side, for comparison.

 

[Hien]

There is an article about this species, also with a photo of it

https://www.researchgate.net/public...eriana/link/540737ee0cf2bba34c1e9483/download

 

[Hien]

Nice blooms Istvan... however the red in the staminode rules it out of a manzurii, which has only green and yellow coloration. Likely a schmilii?

There are many sellers out there that may have mistaken their schmiliis as manzuriis inadvertently.

Similarly even renown and trusted websites (like Kew) have posted wrong pics of schmiliis as manzuriis.

Attaching the official description:

http://www.slipperorchids.info/phragdescriptions/descriptionphragmanzurii.pdf
https://www.researchgate.net/public...cially_Described_in_the_Journal_Lankesteriana


And here is the AOS species ID task force (SITF) determining the 'manzurii' with a reddish tint on staminode as a schmilii:

https://www.aos.org/sitf-blog/phragmipedium-schlimii-var-manzurii-2020-02-23.aspx

oops, sorry Leslie , I repost the same information that you already posted ( I did not see your post at the top )

 

[NYEric]

Manzurii is going to become schlimii anyway.

 

[FrankRC]

Nice blooms Istvan... however the red in the staminode rules it out of a manzurii, which has only green and yellow coloration. Likely a schmilii?

There are many sellers out there that may have mistaken their schmiliis as manzuriis inadvertently.

Similarly even renown and trusted websites (like Kew) have posted wrong pics of schmiliis as manzuriis.

Attaching the official description:

http://www.slipperorchids.info/phragdescriptions/descriptionphragmanzurii.pdf
https://www.researchgate.net/public...cially_Described_in_the_Journal_Lankesteriana


And here is the AOS species ID task force (SITF) determining the 'manzurii' with a reddish tint on staminode as a schmilii:

https://www.aos.org/sitf-blog/phragmipedium-schlimii-var-manzurii-2020-02-23.aspx

Or maybe not so inadvertently. Names mean money to dealers. Also, I am not surprised to see an obvious schlimii sold as a manzurii as both types grow intermixed. Manzurii is a form of schlimii, nothing more.

 

[FrankRC]

Manzurii is going to become schlimii anyway.

It already is.

 

[abax]

Well, well, it will be interesting to see my free gift Manzurii next to my schlimii when both bloom. I assume they
will bloom at approximately the same time.

 

[rauhaariger]

Now it is ready and pleases me with its bloom. Popow and Gruß both publish similar plants as manzurii, American reviewers seem to see it differently, actually I don't care, but I'd be interested to hear what @ORG has to say about it.

 

[FrankRC]

Now it is ready and pleases me with its bloom. Popow and Gruß both publish similar plants as manzurii, American reviewers seem to see it differently, actually I don't care, but I'd be interested to hear what @ORG has to say about it.

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All;

We are asking the wrong questions. The question is not what American vs. German authors see in a particular flower, or what the subjective opinion is of one commercial dealer, an opinion that will always be on the side of selling more plants. The question is do the natural populations throughout Colombia and northern Ecuador support the existence of separate species other than schlimii. The answer is no, and the article in support of that was published in Die Orchidee in German. I encourage all of our friends in Germany to read the articles.

Second, natural populations do support maintenance of the name manzurii as a fma of schlimii, the correct name being Phragmipedium schlimii fnma manzurii. The red in the staminode of this flower precludes it from being manzurii. It simply does not match the description. And this is the problem with the static nature of the eight (8) names applied to plants of schlimii. So few actually match the description with fischeri being based on a malformed flower that doesn't exist in any natural population.

Why?

Because only ~ 25% of the plants found at the original location, the type location of manzurii, actually met the description as published. The rest of the plants all had variable combinations of variable attributes that excluded them from being classified as manzurii. If a flower/plant does not conform to the description, it cannot be what was described, as much as we might want it to be. This is why you see so many flowers labelled as manzurii here and on social media that are not even close to the description.

Best,

Frank