My Paphiopedilum rungsuriyanum have arived

[GuRu]

The problem in the first place is:
1 - the plants were discovered in Thailand in between a bunch of P. canhii from Laos. How they got to Thailand in the first place is a grey zone.
2 -, they also seem to grow around the North Western border of Vietnam.
3 - Some plants were shipped to Germany for identification and description of this species.

I know and saw that in Vietnam,masses of all kinds of orchids are harvested from the wild, still at this moment. When I was there,they were sold all around ont he sidewalk, sold in bundles by the poor people. If you don't believe me, do a YouTube search, even there Vietnamese are proud to offer bundles of orchid species,no one seem to mind this. Do stripping nature from all types of orchids.
Do I like it? NO!, Can I do something about it? No! These people do this to get a bit of money for food but don't understand the consequences for nature. After all,you still can see that nature is still recovering from what of the Americans did there,many years ago.
Smart Thai venders, buy up some of this vast amount of collected plants and ship them out, sometimes they just drive over the borders. Vietnam and Laos are not that fussed,specially when it comes to border control. As long as you got some money in your pocket, border control is OK with it in many places. I don't respect this, but it is what it is. Everywhere in the world, people use back-doors to get what they want. Now if someone, wherever, takes the time to pollinate, germinate and grow a species on, rare or not,and exports these with the right permits, that I can respect.
How the original plants arrived in Germany, also is in the grey area but this species is pollinated and grown on there too, making these plants legal in Europe.
It's odd that such a rampant comes from the US and specially to my post! Not seen on other posts on this forum.
The US is known all over to have the most illegal (exotic) animals and plants (orchids) in the world. Look at P. kovachii!

Maybe it's time to stop posting on this forum and even leave it.
It certainly not pleasant to be accused of illegality when it's not.
No more for me or I might be shot eventually!

These people should be shot or imprisoned immediately.............

It was you who used harsh and in my eyes inappropriate words in the P. kovachi thread.
Now when it comes to your Paph rungsuriyanum your words are much milder and you try to find reasons and apologies why this is how it is. Of couse it's a tragedy when orchids have been plundered from the wild.....no matter in which country all around the world. You already described the reasons why it is this way, so I don't need to repeat it.
In the end there beat two hearts in my chest. One which says, without a permit collected plants in the wild stay illegal even if the were smuggled over a border, propagated legally in another country and the offsprings were shipped with CITES papers to Europe. The other heart says, it's good to save such endangered plants from extinction in the wild.....sometimes with unconventional methods.

 

[GuRu]

.......The point of the forum is conversation, whether you like what you read/hear or not.

Eric, these are exactly my thoughts.

 

[ByeBye]

Eric, these are exactly my thoughts.

I won't even react to this anymore. Keep on pushing members out of this forum.

 

[GuRu]

I won't even react to this anymore. Keep on pushing members out of this forum.

Nobody pushed you out of this forum ...... except yourself !

 

[ByeBye]

Nobody pushed you out of this forum ...... except yourself !

All I did, was post that I bought some P. rungsurianum that were seed grown. You and tour Buddy started accusing me, not the other way around.
Go do what you do best.

 

[cnycharles]

I’m glad I don’t ‘grow’ paphs!

… I barely grow phrags; pouch people get way too wild and touchy

 

[fibre]

Some weeks ago I liked to by rungsurianum from Exotic Plant Company in the Netherlands. So I have asked for CITES or at least a copy of their import permit for Paph. rungsurianum. I didn't get any.

 

[NYEric]

All I did, was post that I bought some P. rungsurianum that were seed grown. You and tour Buddy started accusing me, not the other way around.
Go do what you do best.

NO one accused anyone of anything, as far as I can read. There are no, none, zero, keinen, nichivo, legal rungsuriyanum outside of Laos, period.

 

[Russ1992]

I won't even react to this anymore. Keep on pushing members out of this forum.

Please Bye Bye don't leave. The fact of the matter is we all love these plants and don't want them to go extinct. Whether yours are legal or not is of little importance, especially if they are seed grown. What is important is that you are helping keep the genetics alive, enjoying them in the process, and allowing the greater community to enjoy them with you. End of story.

 

[ByeBye]

Please Bye Bye don't leave. The fact of the matter is we all love these plants and don't want them to go extinct. Whether yours are legal or not is of little importance, especially if they are seed grown. What is important is that you are helping keep the genetics alive, enjoying them in the process, and allowing the greater community to enjoy them with you. End of story.

To late. I reply to your reaction out of respect.
I will never post here again.
One of my rungsy's is in spike now.
If you want to see more of them and my other orchids, you can follow me on my YouTube channel.
Sorry, but that's all I still want to say!

 

[NYEric]

Seems like you crave attention. You're not sorry, you are just peeved that someone challenged your incorrect statement that you had LEGAL seedlings, and you're not adult enough to admit you were wrong.

 

[Ray]

No personal attacks, please.

 

[GuRu]

Seems like you crave attention. You're not sorry, you are just peeved that someone challenged your incorrect statement that you had LEGAL seedlings, and you're not adult enough to admit you were wrong.

Ray, these aren't personal attacks but the truth. In the whole thread nobody attacked anybody, that's a fact therefore there isn't any reason to act the way ramp/Bye Bye did.

 

[TyroneGenade]

... If push comes to shove those seedlings could be confiscated. I think it is necessary to bend rules to help species survive, but still not legal.

That would not be the worst thing in the world. US FWS and DA operate a program where confiscated plants and animals are placed in the care of "sanctuaries" wherein they can be bred/propagated and enter the trade legally. If memory serves, this has happened with several orchids previously where their illegal import got the plants confiscated and put in care of a grower who propagated the plants and distributed legal seedlings into the US trade. Too bad no one is selflessly-deceitful enough to import some plants for them to be confiscated and rehabilitated back into the hobby. But maybe one day someone will order something from Thailand and the order will be stuffed up and some poor soul with be facing a compot of rungsuriyanum instead of one or another Bracy hybrid. Bad luck for them, good luck for us. Well... good luck to the rest of you who like this plant. I'm not too impressed. For all I care all the plants can stay in Laos.

 

[tnyr5]

That would not be the worst thing in the world. US FWS and DA operate a program where confiscated plants and animals are placed in the care of "sanctuaries" wherein they can be bred/propagated and enter the trade legally. If memory serves, this has happened with several orchids previously where their illegal import got the plants confiscated and put in care of a grower who propagated the plants and distributed legal seedlings into the US trade. Too bad no one is selflessly-deceitful enough to import some plants for them to be confiscated and rehabilitated back into the hobby. But maybe one day someone will order something from Thailand and the order will be stuffed up and some poor soul with be facing a compot of rungsuriyanum instead of one or another Bracy hybrid. Bad luck for them, good luck for us. Well... good luck to the rest of you who like this plant. I'm not too impressed. For all I care all the plants can stay in Laos.

You're asking for more than you think. USFW would never let it happen without sending someone to jail & imposing six-figure fines just to show off. We'd be asking someone to sacrifice...basically everything, their lives, their livelihood, just so we can have a plant.

Since the originator of this thread has been driven out & is no longer with us, I suggest that #mods lock it.

 

[Russ1992]

You're asking for more than you think. USFW would never let it happen without sending someone to jail & imposing six-figure fines just to show off. We'd be asking someone to sacrifice...basically everything, their lives, their livelihood, just so we can have a plant.

Since the originator of this thread has been driven out & is no longer with us, I suggest that #mods lock it.

Lock the thread because it's controversial or lock out the thread originator?

 

[Ray]

Ray, these aren't personal attacks but the truth. In the whole thread nobody attacked anybody, that's a fact therefore there isn't any reason to act the way ramp/Bye Bye did.

I was referring to the "you're not adult enough to admit" comment, which IS directed at someone.

I have actually no issue with the facts of the discussion, which I why I did not delete a "reported" comment earlier.

 

[TyroneGenade]

You're asking for more than you think. USFW would never let it happen without sending someone to jail & imposing six-figure fines just to show off. We'd be asking someone to sacrifice...basically everything, their lives, their livelihood, just so we can have a plant.

Yes indeed. You would have to be mad to think as I have expressed. It is in the best interest of the agencies to get a conviction for an accidental important than be merciful. Given the fall out of past cases, one might be better off to torch mislabeled plants than try turn them in. What a sad world we have created.

 

[Ray]

I believe all angles have been expressed at this point, so I shall lock it.