New species like callosum - Vietnam?

[s1214215]

Has anyone heard of a possible new species like callosum from Vietnam? Apparently it has much larger, but similar looking blooms. I was just offered flasks for about $30 each here in Bangkok, so I am wondering if I should get it.

Brett

 

[TyroneGenade]

I don't know, but I found this: http://www.botanyvn.com/cnt.asp?param=news&newsid=1214&lg=en

 

[s1214215]

Yes, I saw that. Thanks though. I will try to get a photo from the seller.

Brett

 

[NYEric]

Ask Baodai.

 

[s1214215]

Will do.

Just got some more info. Apparently it is vinicolour.

Brett

 

[cliokchi]

hi Brett,

yes Brett there's several locations in Vietnam of Paph.callosum
they have quiet heavily marked leafs and are closely related to the Laos
type of callosum, can you ask the seller if he can provide you with a picture
of the parent plants
cliokchi

Will do.

Just got some more info. Apparently it is vinicolour.

Brett

 

[baodai]

Ask Baodai.

It is vinicolor + larger flower, leave much thicker and stronger plant, It is come from warmer area
Baodai

And vini and regular together

 

[s1214215]

Thanks Baodai

I tried to send a message about this last night, but my internet is not good at the moment.

I have asked the seller for a photo of the flower. Thanks for this information as it is helpful. In your opinion then, it is just another callosum and not a new species then?

Brett

 

[baodai]

Thanks Baodai

I tried to send a message about this last night, but my internet is not good at the moment.

I have asked the seller for a photo of the flower. Thanks for this information as it is helpful. In your opinion then, it is just another callosum and not a new species then?

Brett

In my opinion, it is not a new species, it is just another callosum growing at warmer location, if it is $30 for a flask, you should get it
Good luck,
BD

 

[s1214215]

Thanks for the information. I decided tp pass on the flask in the end.

Brett

 

[PaphMadMan]

It is vinicolor + larger flower, leave much thicker and stronger plant, It is come from warmer area
Baodai

larger, thicker, stronger... A tetraploid population?

 

[Braem]

larger, thicker, stronger... A tetraploid population?

very unlikely ... more likely is a geographical variant .... tetraploidy occurs ins single plants ... populations ????? But if someone wants to know ... just count the chromosomes

 

[KyushuCalanthe]

very unlikely ... more likely is a geographical variant .... tetraploidy occurs ins single plants ... populations ????? But if someone wants to know ... just count the chromosomes

Ah, that's one, two, three, five, DOH!

Sorry, but aren't some species naturally tetraploid? The name Rhododendron calendulaceum comes to mind. While polypoloidy does occur in many species of deciduous azalea, this species is strictly 4N, or perhaps I've got my lines all crossed up. Wouldn't be the first time!

 

[PaphMadMan]

larger, thicker, stronger... A tetraploid population?

very unlikely ... more likely is a geographical variant .... tetraploidy occurs ins single plants ... populations ?????

Tetraploid populations are well documented in many plant species. Tetraploidy has also played a significant role in plant evolution and speciation, and somewhere between a single tetraploid plant and a new species arising from it there must be a population. A simple internet search on 'tetraploid population' or 'tetraploid species' should pull up a least a few examples.

 

[Eric Muehlbauer]

I was about to say the same thing....Isn't Rhododendron calendulaceum essentially a tetraploid species derived from R. cumberlandense (bakeri)?

 

[Braem]

Ah, that's one, two, three, five, DOH!

Sorry, but aren't some species naturally tetraploid? The name Rhododendron calendulaceum comes to mind. While polypoloidy does occur in many species of deciduous azalea, this species is strictly 4N, or perhaps I've got my lines all crossed up. Wouldn't be the first time!

Some individual plants are ... but not "species". A "species" is a population of individuals. A "species" is never a single plant.

And yes, the counting is eucledian mathematics ... one, one more, one more ... and that is done under a microscope after you make the chromosomes visual im metaphase by a very complicated, time consuming and difficult procedure.

 

[Braem]

Tetraploid populations are well documented in many plant species. Tetraploidy has also played a significant role in plant evolution and speciation, and somewhere between a single tetraploid plant and a new species arising from it there must be a population. A simple internet search on 'tetraploid population' or 'tetraploid species' should pull up a least a few examples.

If that is so .. explain the biology to me ... tetraploidy is a mutation, and that occurs in single individuals. To get a population you would have to propagate that tetraploid without interference from other non-tetraploid individuals. And that is only possible in a lab (if at all) .... Ths never happens in the wild.

 

[Braem]

I was about to say the same thing....Isn't Rhododendron calendulaceum essentially a tetraploid species derived from R. cumberlandense (bakeri)?

But then, as you say, you have a different species ... and if that happened in the wild ... then the original tetraploid "specimen" must have become immediately isolated and must have propagated vegetatively only .... ????
How the hell would that work???
In a lab that would be possible if one can make meristems ... but as we know that is not possible with slippers (as of yet ... ).

 

[Braem]

Ah, that's one, two, three, five, DOH!

Sorry, but aren't some species naturally tetraploid? The name Rhododendron calendulaceum comes to mind. While polypoloidy does occur in many species of deciduous azalea, this species is strictly 4N, or perhaps I've got my lines all crossed up. Wouldn't be the first time!

No one ever claimed that polyploidy does not occur ... it occur everywhere (even in humans) ... but in INDIVIDUALS, not in entire populations.

 

[PaphMadMan]

For anyone who is interested, here are a few Wikipedia articles that mention tetraploid or other higher ploidy populations in various plants. I'm sure anyone could easily locate more detailed and scholarly sources if they want to.

Utricularia inflata
Rosa acicularis
Asplenium scolopendrium
Acorus
Solidago altissima
Campanula rotundifolia
Liatris bracteata