Normans Orchids / Orchids.com Order
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Well.... maybe this last order from Norman :sob:troy
Well-Known Member
They rip people off!!!!!
So far I haven’t had any problems with Norman’s orchids. Most of my purchases have been phalaenopsis. He sells some very interesting bellini/violacea crosses. Mine have been well-rooted and also in spike.
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I just received a few paphs from Normans last week. They were in great shape. Strong plants and good roots. I have order many paphs from them in the last two years and have had only one or two minor disappointments (plants were smaller than I had hoped). Every plant that has bloomed had really high quality flowers.
Did yours come from Canada or so cal? Most of mine came from Canada.
Did yours come from Canada or so cal? Most of mine came from Canada.
Kalyke
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Not a legal expert here, but Norman could also show you tons of people who are happy with his orchids. I had problems with this company back in 2016 or 2017. I decided never to buy from them again, and I did not until I went hunting for a Rothschildianum that would not break the bank. So I crossed my fingers and ordered it. I received it in March. Other than having one bent leaf which has never un-kinked, the plant is good. I bought the largest size, "premium" but I still felt it was a seedling. Do I know? (I have another Rothschildianum, but one that is a stonii cross, and it is twice as large-- so that's how I figure, but I am a newbie and have no idea if Stoniis are larger than pure Roths). I actually still have a plant I bought from Norman's in 2016.
Another vendor I have been using sent crushed and wadded up plants because his packing was atrocious. He did not tape it to the inner walls of the box, and it bounced around getting hit by the heat pack. I was steaming mad. I sent pictures and told him that it was not professional and all kinds of things (it was very expensive) and he moped and I did not buy anything for nearly a year. When I finally bought again from him I notice he packs the orchids himself, and (I feel) I get first-class treatment. So would I call this guy out? I do not think so. I'm just saying it is not uncommon. All business owners occasionally send the wrong thing, or pack stuff carelessly. To the first post, I see it as a problem with the "staff." Maybe he just needs a good talking to? I do kind of think that maybe he is not interacting with dissatisfied customers-- and maybe he is living in a kind of bubble as he is still seen as an "expert." Can a person know a lot and still have shoddy business practices? Heck yes!
Another vendor I have been using sent crushed and wadded up plants because his packing was atrocious. He did not tape it to the inner walls of the box, and it bounced around getting hit by the heat pack. I was steaming mad. I sent pictures and told him that it was not professional and all kinds of things (it was very expensive) and he moped and I did not buy anything for nearly a year. When I finally bought again from him I notice he packs the orchids himself, and (I feel) I get first-class treatment. So would I call this guy out? I do not think so. I'm just saying it is not uncommon. All business owners occasionally send the wrong thing, or pack stuff carelessly. To the first post, I see it as a problem with the "staff." Maybe he just needs a good talking to? I do kind of think that maybe he is not interacting with dissatisfied customers-- and maybe he is living in a kind of bubble as he is still seen as an "expert." Can a person know a lot and still have shoddy business practices? Heck yes!
The photos are Norman’s plants all from California.
Normans has you by the bal-s. They tell you not to repot for 6 months. So if you repot upon arrival into your mix it’s not their fault if they have a poor root system. If you wait 6 months like they instruct you to, it’s your fault that you watered incorrectly. They have an out either way. Let me be clear I’m talking about paphs. here not phals.
Happypaphy7
Paphlover
You might want to check on that because the last time I saw that yellow "instruction sheet" paper that came with the order from them, it said 30days not 6 months, which still seemed fishy to me. like why?
I don't repot new purchases unless they absolutely have to be, for example, plants are wobbly in the pot, potting mix appear too old, plants are packing in the pot leaving almost no room for further growth.
By the way, even if they tell you not to repot right away but you did anyway and found out that the plant has no to little roots, how is it not their fault since you just received the plant? To me, the instruction is only to scare some unsuspecting newbies or clueless hobbyists so they don't repot for the first 30 days as told, then whatever happens after that (even if the plant was initially not in good conditions when it was sent out from the vendor), the consumer will be at fault. This is the only logic behind this guideline because their claim that repotting plants in the first 30 days will damage them is not true at all.
Not only is this incorrect, but it is also bad because it is deceptive.
While at it, there was this infamous debacle on AOS Facebook page a few years ago. Someone posted his frustration with them about rootless Paphiopedilum charlesworthii. The plant was taken out of the pot on the day it was received and photographed with no live roots, just a few dead mushy black strings.
The reply from the Fangs was beyond shocking. Word for word, the email started by saying "please understand that this is a species that is known to make very little root system....."
Instead of making things right, they kept on making ridiculous excuses, insults and threats along with some of their royal customers who were attacking the person for posting this although majority of the sane people supported the poor guy.
What I did not understand is that they went to such an extend to make a drama out of this when they could have just apologized (it is something that can happen to any vendor) and offer a replacement plant or money back. Simple. Isn't it?
It's not like someone was wanting to return the plant for having two tiny black spots on the leaf. We're talking a plant with zero live roots with a photo to back it up.
I don't repot new purchases unless they absolutely have to be, for example, plants are wobbly in the pot, potting mix appear too old, plants are packing in the pot leaving almost no room for further growth.
By the way, even if they tell you not to repot right away but you did anyway and found out that the plant has no to little roots, how is it not their fault since you just received the plant? To me, the instruction is only to scare some unsuspecting newbies or clueless hobbyists so they don't repot for the first 30 days as told, then whatever happens after that (even if the plant was initially not in good conditions when it was sent out from the vendor), the consumer will be at fault. This is the only logic behind this guideline because their claim that repotting plants in the first 30 days will damage them is not true at all.
Not only is this incorrect, but it is also bad because it is deceptive.
While at it, there was this infamous debacle on AOS Facebook page a few years ago. Someone posted his frustration with them about rootless Paphiopedilum charlesworthii. The plant was taken out of the pot on the day it was received and photographed with no live roots, just a few dead mushy black strings.
The reply from the Fangs was beyond shocking. Word for word, the email started by saying "please understand that this is a species that is known to make very little root system....."
Instead of making things right, they kept on making ridiculous excuses, insults and threats along with some of their royal customers who were attacking the person for posting this although majority of the sane people supported the poor guy.
What I did not understand is that they went to such an extend to make a drama out of this when they could have just apologized (it is something that can happen to any vendor) and offer a replacement plant or money back. Simple. Isn't it?
It's not like someone was wanting to return the plant for having two tiny black spots on the leaf. We're talking a plant with zero live roots with a photo to back it up.
I don't have the energy to rehash all the shady business Norman has done over the years but to everyone defending him just remember that if you play with fire you'll eventually get burned.
Excuse me for my error. The paper that the send with the purchase does say 30 days. I do agree it would be much cheaper in the long run to apologize and send another plant or return the money rather than to have all of this bad publicity.
"I didn't repot the plant. It became unpotted while in transit, apparently due to your poor packing."
I have placed several orders with Norman and have been very pleased with the plants I have received. In contrast, I've also ordered from several other large-scale paph vendors with great reputations and been extremely disappointed (and in several instances just plain angry) with the diseased and dying plants I got. In my opinion, it's just luck of the draw. Sometimes you get good plants, and sometimes they just suck.
tnyr5
Well-Known Member
Why are we digging up a 6 1/2 year old thread?
mrhappyrotter
Grand Chupacabra
Add me to the pile of Norman's victims. In my opinion, that person and that business are unscrupulous scammers.
My experience was pretty cut and dry, really. I bought what was supposed to be a Paph. Wössner Wolke (hangianum x emersonii) from Norman. The plant that arrived was not in bloom, but it was also clearly not Paph. Wössner Wolke. The leaves were a dead give away, they were far wider than you would expect from this cross, they were mottled on top, and they were speckled underneath with dark pigmentation. My best guess is that it was something along the lines of Paph. Shun-Fa Golden or maybe Paph. Harold Koopowitz, but definitely no way it was Wössner Wolke.
Noman's employees were incredibly rude and condescending and actively avoided trying to help, Norman was difficult to understand, unacceptably slow to respond to email, and also not helpful at all. There's something terribly wrong with the culture at that establishment. Norman swore the plant was Paph. Wössner Wolke, insisted that his supplier confirmed the ID was correct, and would not listen to me at all. I ended up getting another vendor to weigh in on the ID (Popow for the curious) and they agreed with me, the plant could not possibly have been Paph. Wössner Wolke.
Finally, after weeks of back and forth, bad customer service, and just terrible communication, Norman agreed to refund the plant and reimburse me for return shipping. After sending the plant back, he did refund the cost of the plant, but he did not fully reimburse me for the shipping. So, his mistake cost me money. Honestly, I shouldn't have, but I just cut my losses and moved on.
Bad customer service and all that aside, that's not even the reason I classify this person and this business as unscrupulous scammers. The reason I go so far as to make my opinion on that matter known is that after all was said and done, Norman kept that listing for Paph. Wössner Wolke on his site and did not even bother to add any kind of discliamer. He intentionally continued to knowingly sell misidentified (and might add expensive) plants on his site. That's disreputable. That's untrustworthy. And that tells me everything I need to know about the vendor.
My experience was pretty cut and dry, really. I bought what was supposed to be a Paph. Wössner Wolke (hangianum x emersonii) from Norman. The plant that arrived was not in bloom, but it was also clearly not Paph. Wössner Wolke. The leaves were a dead give away, they were far wider than you would expect from this cross, they were mottled on top, and they were speckled underneath with dark pigmentation. My best guess is that it was something along the lines of Paph. Shun-Fa Golden or maybe Paph. Harold Koopowitz, but definitely no way it was Wössner Wolke.
Noman's employees were incredibly rude and condescending and actively avoided trying to help, Norman was difficult to understand, unacceptably slow to respond to email, and also not helpful at all. There's something terribly wrong with the culture at that establishment. Norman swore the plant was Paph. Wössner Wolke, insisted that his supplier confirmed the ID was correct, and would not listen to me at all. I ended up getting another vendor to weigh in on the ID (Popow for the curious) and they agreed with me, the plant could not possibly have been Paph. Wössner Wolke.
Finally, after weeks of back and forth, bad customer service, and just terrible communication, Norman agreed to refund the plant and reimburse me for return shipping. After sending the plant back, he did refund the cost of the plant, but he did not fully reimburse me for the shipping. So, his mistake cost me money. Honestly, I shouldn't have, but I just cut my losses and moved on.
Bad customer service and all that aside, that's not even the reason I classify this person and this business as unscrupulous scammers. The reason I go so far as to make my opinion on that matter known is that after all was said and done, Norman kept that listing for Paph. Wössner Wolke on his site and did not even bother to add any kind of discliamer. He intentionally continued to knowingly sell misidentified (and might add expensive) plants on his site. That's disreputable. That's untrustworthy. And that tells me everything I need to know about the vendor.
clearsky57
Well-Known Member
I kind of agree with Tony
Why are we spending so much time with a 10 yr+ tag, and isn't it possible that the source could have been the issue?
All that being said, i have been purchasing plants from Norman for well over 20 years, and have never had an issue (save maybe one time and it was fixed) He cannot have been in business for all these years with not keeping good service and help from customers. BUT, i am not going to nail them to the cross over a singular anomoly.
In fact a regular contributor on the slipper talk just recently received an AM from the paph forum judging center, for a paph they purchased from Normans.
It is real easy for someone to get on the internet and complain over a business, but I think it should be kept under check, and perception on one person can be looked at different ways to others.
If you don't like someone, because of your interaction with them, then keep it to yourself, my problem is public forums are the reason our country has had the negative reactions to the few incidents, say like the police issues.
After all - even a blind squirrel can find a nut -
Why are we spending so much time with a 10 yr+ tag, and isn't it possible that the source could have been the issue?
All that being said, i have been purchasing plants from Norman for well over 20 years, and have never had an issue (save maybe one time and it was fixed) He cannot have been in business for all these years with not keeping good service and help from customers. BUT, i am not going to nail them to the cross over a singular anomoly.
In fact a regular contributor on the slipper talk just recently received an AM from the paph forum judging center, for a paph they purchased from Normans.
It is real easy for someone to get on the internet and complain over a business, but I think it should be kept under check, and perception on one person can be looked at different ways to others.
If you don't like someone, because of your interaction with them, then keep it to yourself, my problem is public forums are the reason our country has had the negative reactions to the few incidents, say like the police issues.
After all - even a blind squirrel can find a nut -
Just curious, in those more than 20 years, did you buy any Phalaenopsis? Do you do any virus testing? Mike
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