P-K free fertilizer?

[The Orchid Boy]

I found I have an organic fertilizer that supplies only nitrogen. It is Miracle-Gro Organic Choice. Total N is 8%, 2.6% ammoniacal N and 5.4% other water soluble N "derived from fermented sugar beet molasses." Contents and metals found in product can be found at www.regulatory-info-sc.com. I was going to look this up later this evening. Is this a good fert? I thought about using it w/ 1-1-1 "buffalo loam tea". What are your opinions?

 

[Ozpaph]

What's the claimed benefit?
Could use calcium nitrate alone.

 

[keithrs]

I have never used ether of those products.

In general, teas are good to use. I use to mix all kinds of different thing in my teas. The best was a blood meal and bone meal tea/liquid fertilizer. Sh*t stinks!!!! You have to ferment it for 2-3 weeks. I used it on garden plant. Bat and sea bird guano are good as is fish emulsion. You have to find a emulsion with out urea like Neptune's. Alfalfa is good too.

Like what Stone does... Mixing small amount of "salt" based with organics is your best bet.

 

[keithrs]

What's the claimed benefit?
Could use calcium nitrate alone.

I think he's trying to get away from "salt" based ferts.

 

[gonewild]

I would say it is a BAD choice for your orchid plants.

The 5% "other" nitrogen is probably Urea.

It is very expensive considering there is not much actual Nitrogen in a bottle of the liquid. Mostly you are buying water.

 

[Stone]

I would say it is a BAD choice for your orchid plants.

The 5% "other" nitrogen is probably Urea.

What's wrong with Urea? If its not absorbed directly, it's turned into ammonium in 2 days. The only problem to me is that it doesn't show up in EC tests so you have to allow for it when making up your feed.

 

[gonewild]

What's wrong with Urea? If its not absorbed directly, it's turned into ammonium in 2 days. The only problem to me is that it doesn't show up in EC tests so you have to allow for it when making up your feed.

My biggest objection is just what you said, it vaporizes into the atmosphere. Once it does that it is no longer available for the plant to use and as such it does not give good value for money invested. In addition someone applies it thinking they providing fertilizer that will feed their plant for longer than "2 days" and their plants end up under nourished.

Urea was created with the intend to apply it subsoil so as to take advantage of the Ammonia gas. It is a cheap source of nitrogen that fertilizer companies are using to increase profit margins and it is basically deceptive to the general consumer.

I think the price for the MG Organic Choice is about $8 per quart and that makes it not a good value cost wise and combine that with the volatility of the Urea and that makes it a BAD choice for orchids.

Nothing is wrong with Urea when it is used how it was intended, for agriculture field crops.

 

[The Orchid Boy]

How would using the buffalo loam tea with my other fertilizer mixed in be? The buffola loam tea mixture says it comes from organically (I think) raised buffalo and it is their manure composted, dried, and in a powder like form that disolves fairly easily in water. Would this contain urea? I know there is some contraversy over urea; I like to avoid urea for the most part.

And would 30-10-10 Grow More orchid formula w/ 24.8% N being from urea or 7-8-6 Dyna-Gro urea free orchid formula be better? I have a mixed collection of paphs, cattleyas, phals, a phrag, and an oncidium, all in different types of media.

1 more question: Is it true some orchids do best with a low or no N fertilizer when blooming? It seems that in the wild they would have constant N-P-K levels.

 

[Ozpaph]

I think he's trying to get away from "salt" based ferts.

Can plants absorb long chain, complex molecules intact or do they degrade in the 'soil' to form 'salts' which are then absorbed?

 

[keithrs]

Can plants absorb long chain, complex molecules intact or do they degrade in the 'soil' to form 'salts' which are then absorbed?

I'm not qualified to answer that.

I do know the reason you have to ferment blood and bone meal is so there in time to break down the protein chains into useable form. Weather that's a salt... That's beyond me.

But if he is trying to stay organic, he can not touch any salt based fert.

 

[keithrs]

How would using the buffalo loam tea with my other fertilizer mixed in be? The buffola loam tea mixture says it comes from organically (I think) raised buffalo and it is their manure composted, dried, and in a powder like form that disolves fairly easily in water. Would this contain urea? I know there is some contraversy over urea; I like to avoid urea for the most part.

And would 30-10-10 Grow More orchid formula w/ 24.8% N being from urea or 7-8-6 Dyna-Gro urea free orchid formula be better? I have a mixed collection of paphs, cattleyas, phals, a phrag, and an oncidium, all in different types of media.

1 more question: Is it true some orchids do best with a low or no N fertilizer when blooming? It seems that in the wild they would have constant N-P-K levels.

The use of teas for fertilizer will get expensive in time and money. Also your not supplying the micros in fare amounts and will have to supplement them.

High N didn't effect my plant as far as blooming gos.

If your going organic then I think the NPK is not as important. Organically things will break down at different rates. Even tho you have 1-1-1 fert. Doesn't mean it will break down that way.

 

[Ray]

Isn't urea a salt? I know when the salt mine near Geneseo NY collapsed a few years ago (they supply the vast majority of "ice melt" in the eastern US), we were using urea on the driveways, instead.

OzPaph: According to Marschner, urea can be directly absorbed through leaf tissue to a greater degree than can more ionic species like nitrates and ammonium compounds. The opposite is true of the roots.

 

[The Orchid Boy]

I don't know if urea is a salt. I do know that the main waste product of fish is ammonia. The main waste product of humans is urea along with ammonia.

 

[gonewild]

I don't know if urea is a salt. I do know that the main waste product of fish is ammonia. The main waste product of humans is urea along with ammonia.

Make sure you don't confuse Urea with Urine.

 

[gonewild]

I know there is some contraversy over urea; I like to avoid urea for the most part.

And would 30-10-10 Grow More orchid formula w/ 24.8% N being from urea or 7-8-6 Dyna-Gro urea free orchid formula be better? I have a mixed collection of paphs, cattleyas, phals, a phrag, and an oncidium, all in different types of media.

If you want to avoid urea then why consider a fertilizer that contains it?

There is no definite answer to your question, only opinions. (My opinion is that both are poor choices)
The two fertilizers you mention will probably work equally well for you. The 30-10-10 will loose nitrogen to the atmosphere quickly so it might become a similar ratio to the 7-8-6. I'm not saying it does just pointing out a possibility.

If you read the threads here on K-Lite and pay attention to the reasons behind the idea of it and you pay attention to the results people are having you will see that it may well be the best fertilizer formula.

You'll never get people to all agree what is best so you have to learn it for yourself with experience.

I'm curious why you are searching through all these different fertilizers rather than try the K-Lite. Are you thinking you want to be an organic grower?

 

[keithrs]

Urea is natural but its combined with a synthetic salt(like almost all other 'salt' based ferts). Organic products can use it in there fertilizers if <5% N comes from it. Most likely if you find a organic fert that is 5-1-1 or 8-1-1. Its safe to say that about 5% of that is urea if blood meal is not listed.

I would love to grow orchids with straight organics but have not found a way that gives ok results that is not too expensive or time consuming.

 

[The Orchid Boy]

I'm going to use K lite from Ray soon. I just wanted to see what you all thought of these other fertilizers. What should I do with all this extra fertilizer? Use it on houseplants or garden?

 

[gonewild]

Use it on houseplants or garden?

Yes

 

[The Orchid Boy]

So houseplants can absorb urea because they are in soil with microbes; am I correct?

 

[The Orchid Boy]

Make sure you don't confuse Urea with Urine.

I know. Our "liquid waste" is basically ammonia and our "solid waste" is basically urea.