Paph bellatulum??

[LO69]

I bought this as Paph bellatulum but would like to hear what do you guys think It Is.
Potted in pure sfagnum with a pinch of dolomitic gravel on top.
It's a nice plant with attractive mottled foliage and grows well.

 

[Martin]

Looks like a nice and well grown wenshanense to me.

 

[JLOG]

I’m with Martin. It looks like a wenshanense

 

[LO69]

Two it's better than one!!

 

[LO69]

Forgot the picture!

 

[troy]

that is beautiful!! It looks vintage lol.. great shape!!

 

[Ozpaph]

probably a hybrid

 

[Guldal]

probably a hybrid

Yes, as both Martin and JLOG both already mentioned, it's most likely Wenshanense, i.e. Concobellatulum (unless you per proveniens can validly argue, that you have a clone of the natural hybrid of concolor x bellatulum namely P. x wenshanense).

 

[GuRu]

Yes, as both Martin and JLOG both already mentioned, it's most likely Wenshanense, i.e. Concobellatulum (unless you per proveniens can validly argue, that you have a clone of the natural hybrid of concolor x bellatulum namely P. x wenshanense.

If it is Paph. wenshanense and it looks a lot like this....it would be a true species nowadays. Many Taxonomists e.g. O. Gruss (see page 227 of his new book) and KEW Science conside Paph. wenshanense as a accepted species.

 

[Guldal]

If it is Paph. wenshanense and it looks a lot like this....it would be a true species nowadays. Many Taxonomists e.g. O. Gruss (see page 227 of his new book) and KEW Science conside Paph. wenshanense as a accepted species.

How does one distinguish between the manmade hybrid, Concobellatulum, and the species P. wenshanense (this is not a merely rhetorical question as I do not posses Olaf's book)?
If my memory doesn't fail me completely, I think, I read somewhere, that at some point in time (i.e. before I started collecting orchids) plants were importered as P. wenshanense, but that people back then really couldn't distinguish between the two (actually, between the three: the manmade hybrid, P. Concobellatulum, the naturally occuring hybrid P x wenshanense, and the purported species P. wenshanense)
Might be, though, that botanists over the years have come up with a clearer description of the species, P. wenshanense, that helps us distinguish clearer between the two (three) entities, even with the wide range of outcomes of the manmade hybrid taken into consideration?

 

[GuRu]

How does one distinguish between the manmade hybrid, Concobellatulum, and the species P. wenshanense (this is not a merely rhetorical question as I do not posses Olaf's book)?
If my memory doesn't fail me completely, I think, I read somewhere, that at some point in time (i.e. before I started collecting orchids) plants were importered as P. wenshanense, but that people back then really couldn't distinguish between the two (actually, between the three: the manmade hybrid, P. Concobellatulum, the naturally occuring hybrid P x wenshanense, and the purported species P. wenshanense)
Might be, though, that botanists over the years have come up with a clearer description of the species, P. wenshanense, that helps us distinguish clearer between the two (three) entities, even with the wide range of outcomes of the manmade hybrid taken into consideration?

Jens, I admit that's all a bit confusing but it seems to me and this seems to be reality, there are still two terms....the primary hybrid Paph. Concobellatulum and the species Paph. wenshanense. The term of the naturals hybrid Paph. x wenshanense doesn't exist anymore. I won't cite the text of O.Gruss here, because it would be too much (one whole page in his book) but obviously this status has been naturalized among taxonomists and on the one hand nobody really is lucky with it but on the other hand nobody knows a real alternative. Maybe O.G. reads this thread and express his standpoint here.

 

[werner.freitag]

could be wenshanense , but I show two flowers of my collection, which look alike
definitely collected .............

 

[SlipperKing]

So Werner, your two are collected wenshanense? or you think they are collected bellatulum?

 

[GuRu]

could be wenshanense , but I show two flowers of my collection, which look alike definitely collected.............

So Werner, your two are collected wenshanense? or you think they are collected bellatulum?

IMHO both plants look more P. bellatulum like than P. wenshanense like.....but I'm not really sure. Both species resemble each other very much. Werner, I know you own the new book of O.Gruss and he shows many different flowers of Paph. bellatulum (pages 145 - 151) with many spots and few spots and also of Paph. wenshanense (pages 228 - 229). The author writes on page 149 that beside the appearance of the flower the main feature to distinguish bothe species is the shape of the staminode. Paph. bellatulum has rhombical staminod with three teeth at the lower edge. Unfortunately the staminode isn't clearly visible in your photos.
You can see the three teeth in my old close up of a P. bellatulum flower:

 

[DrLeslieEe]

Unfortunately the 3 teeth at the lower part of the staminoidal shield is not always the key to confirming a bellatulum. You can see in several wenshanense posts here (particularly ‘The Three Immortals) that some do have this ‘trademark’.

The way I can tell is usually asking the question ‘does it look like a bellatulum?’. Does it have the following traits?

1. consistent bellatulum spotting esp pouch (more blotching dots than fine dots)
2. are petals more rounded at tips or sharp like concolor
3. is the base colour more yellow than white (rarely pale yellow in true bells, as they are most often white base)
4. is the dorsal wide and reach more to 1/4 of the petals both sides?
5. is the flower cupped shaped or open like concolor?
6. is the staminode flatter than bellatulum (which usually is concave with 3 teeth marks) and have very pale center sometimes (deeper yellow in wenshanense)
7. does the flower stalk rest on the leaves (pendulous) or hold up erect (like concolor trait).

These are my own observations, which are the usual suspicious behaviours that I find when in doubt. I’m sure there are others from the growers/experts here.

 

[Ozpaph]

i would have called those 2 bellatulum.

 

[werner.freitag]

So Werner, your two are collected wenshanense? or you think they are collected bellatulum?

bellatulum from our area, got it for free with many others about 10 years ago