Paph. (Hsinying Mary x Hampshire Raven)

[Leo Schordje]

Forrest, I really think Hsinying Maru is a good solid guess. If there is a cross number on the tag, especially if it starts with a K and has 4 or 5 digits, you could email Klehm and see if it is one of his crosses.

If you are simply growing and showing the plant, I think this guess is good enough to go ahead and use the name for AOS judging. I would be a little hesitant as far as breeding with the plant, but as far as showing and enjoying the plant - the guess seems solid enough to my eye. If you start selling divisions of the plant, I would simply tell the customers the story around the tag. But I think you have it right. There is such a thing as close enough - it is a man made hybrid, you are not describing a new species or something. Good enough.

 

[fbrem]

it has some code but it's OE0250. I'm not into breeding so just out of curiosity is the confidence in the name or characteristics of the bloom that would make you hesiatnt to breed with it? I know next to nothing about Maudiae breeding so constructive criticism is welcome. It'll give me better knowledge if I consider buying some more of these types. Thanks.

Forrest

 

[Leo Schordje]

Both confidence in the name & to a lesser extent - flower quality. I don't recognize the orchid grower who uses the initials OE in their cross codes. There is no formal 'registry' it is just that commonly the breeder uses either their initials or their company's intitials to create a code number to track a cross. Anyone else know who uses OE as their code initials?

About flower quality, Don't get me wrong, your flower is quite nice. I would happily keep it. Your flower seems good enough to breed with if you select the other parent to compliment your flower's strengths and balance its weaknesses. I don't know the natural spread, but you could cross it to something with similar color and larger size. You could pick a second parent that has a larger & rounder dorsal. You could pick a spot free but deeper colored parent to try to make more smooth vini's with no warts. You could go with a 'JAC' type Peacock flame as the other parent, to pick the spotting back up and add more size and that rose color. The list goes on. There have been so many vini maudiae type hybrids made over the years, for the judges to award one, it really has to be good. Sadly, not much of the variety that was available a decade ago is in circulation these days. Right now most of the seedlings I have seen for sale, one way or the other use Macabre. If you can find one of the old breeder clones to use, like Valentine Voila'. Which used Paph mastersianum in its ancestry - you might bring back a line of breeding that I liked in the past, but has seemed to fade away.

At any rate, don't cross your plant to just anything you happen to have in bloom. It is expensive, takes space, and lots of time to bring a seed pods worth of seedlings up to size. Really choose the other parent to accentuate your plant's strengths and to balance its weaknesses. If you do that, you can make a lovely cross.

Switching to my encouragement hat, I know when I first got started - I did a cross with the first two plants I had in bloom (Odm bictoniense x Onc. hastatum). Raised a bunch of seedlings, and 8 years later realized I had a unique step backwards in Odcdm breeding. Actually did successfully get wonderful vivid colors on the flowers. But all 12 of the seedlings I did bloom out had smaller flowers than the bictoniense, and fewer flowers than either parent. But they were vivid deep red & purple & brown star shaped flowers with narrow petals and narrow lip. Except for color, all other characteristics one uses for show were not as good as either parent. But I loved every minute of it, even the disappointment with flowers quality. SO what ever you do, enjoy it, and enjoy the learning experience.
Leo

 

[fbrem]

thanks for the reply, I appreciate it when wisened growers help me better understand my craft. and it is definately a keeper. I wish I had enough paphs to actually consider something not a keeper though. BTW the NS is ~10.5cm is that big? small? average? for a Maudiea type. and the only other paph I have in bloom now is a moquettianum, which would likely be a monstrosity, but maybe a sequentially blooming monstrosity. Thanks again.

Forrest

 

[Leo Schordje]

Your natural spread is on the smallish side for Maudiae types, I would have to check AQ, but I think awards these days usually begin around 14 cm. Now of course for awards size is only 10 points, but it is often the first 10 points. Size is what tends to get the judges attention. Color will also get a judges attention, and smaller flowers with very attractive color and significantly better than average form do occasionally get awarded. I would say if you breed with this, shoot for a parent that is larger, and will help keep or intensify that nice smooth rose color.

Yes, (moquettianum x any Maudiae type) tends to produce a percentage of freaky flowers. Interestingly enough though, you will get a few that are really quite nice, maybe 20% will be pleasant enough to be 'keepers', even though they likely would not be considered awardable. The rest would best be put on the compost heap. I have a very nice (liemianum x mastersianum) that is quite pleasant, and part of my 'keepers' collection. It is a similar line of breeding, though mastersianum has some unique differences in the way it breeds.

 

[raymond]

I love the color