Paph prices in Australia. Will the bubble burst?

[cattmad]

dont get me wrong prices for small seedlings have been very high, but you cant expect to be able to buy an awarded (and in my opinion still very good) st swithin for $100.

 

[emydura]

prices are high right now, but I thought it was a good looking division and fully expected it to go for between $200 and $250. A little higher than I expected, but good luck to the seller.

I dont see anything wrong with single growth divisions provided they are established with a decent root system and this one did look to be exactly that.

Prices on this quality of paph have been the same for a long time, try buying a piece of St Swithin 'Sunnybank' and see what it costs

Yes, good luck to the seller. If you can sell single growth divisions for $330 why would you sell any bigger. Personally I wouldn't. I'd hate to think I sold a plant for that amount of money and it ended up dying. The division did look healthy although small. On a mature growth, the individual leaves would be the length of that whole plant. I couldn't flower that within two years myself, especially as it is a single growth. And then you have a long wait until the next flowering. That is what happend to my St Swithin 'Summer Storm' clone. It was a small division. It flowered and never recovered.

I have bought two Paph divisions off this seller previously. Both wonderful clones. The Bel Royal had 2 growths and it has grown like a weed. Really vigorous. It has put on another 2 growths. Having a bigger plant makes such a difference. I also bought a Delrosi off her. It was supposedly a flowering size single growth. Well that growth kept growing for two years and is now finally in bud. It is just putting out two new leads. So probably another 3 years to next flowering. It was an expensive plant and it is going to take 5 years for it to start to reach its potential. You do get quality from that seller though.

Cape Oasis is another who just sells small single growth divisions and rarely with roots. They look like they have just been pulled off the plant and mailed to you. It is just so slow to grow such small divisions. Well, for me it is.

I remember John Robertson offering a division of St Swithin 'Sunnybank' for $750 many years ago. I was just starting out so I didn't even consider it. Knowing John, it would have been a lot more than one growth.

 

[emydura]

dont get me wrong prices for small seedlings have been very high, but you cant expect to be able to buy an awarded (and in my opinion still very good) st swithin for $100.

I'm happy to pay the money for awarded plants. But I want a strong healthy plant if I'm going to be paying $250 plus. Not a small single growth that will take many years to become established. I've never had a problem growing on large divisions (3 growths+). In fact they have all flourished. It is only when I've had small weak divisions that I have run into troubles.

If that plant is worth $330 then that PEOY should have went for $1000+. Because there is no comparison between the two.

 

[emydura]

Yep, I agree with catmad's comment that awarded plants will still bring good money but I think the price of unproven plants and seedlings will drop.
Mick

Small seedlings are certainly not dropping at the moment. There was an Angel Hair the other day that looked like it was not long out of a flask. It was $50 and rising the last I saw it. You can get a flowering size plant in the US for that amount.

 

[quietaustralian]

I thought enough of that plant to bid more than $250 but wasn't willing to go higher. I think it sold for about the right price as things stand in the Aust market today. I do wonder how big the market is.

If we look at that auction. There were 490 views of the auction at auction end but only 7 bidders and of them only 4 went above $125 including me. I wonder what the price would be if the vendor listed 3 or 4 divisions of this plant over a few months?

I have seen a vendor listing a species seedling 6 times, the first couple of times it sold for $80-$90 but the same seedling has been going for about $28 recently. Some sellers are getting around this by second chance offers, on one occasion I was the 4 highest bidder and received a second chance offer.

12 months ago every paph was getting bids but more recently some have gone unsold,two in the last week that I have noticed and I only look at what interests me.

Mick

 

[cattmad]

david, I agree the PEOY went fairly cheaply really given it's quality and the size of the plant.

In all honesty large divisions of any paphs are rarely seen available for sale here

 

[emydura]

It makes you appreciate how much your plants are worth. I'm starting to get a collection of multiple growth multi-florals - some of them nice clones. Going by these prices many of them would be worth $2000 - $3000 each. It also makes it difficult when people ask you for divisions. If you can get $300+ on eBay it is a pretty generous gift. Especially when it costs you that much to buy a division yourself.

 

[emydura]

If we look at that auction. There were 490 views of the auction at auction end but only 7 bidders and of them only 4 went above $125 including me. I wonder what the price would be if the vendor listed 3 or 4 divisions of this plant over a few months?
Mick

Yes, it is probably just us trying to outbid each other. oke:

 

[SelectOrchids]

Even at the time the flower wasn't big. It was recognised for its shape and colour. To be honest I put shape and colour way ahead of size. The only better St Swithin I have seen in Australia is St Swithin 'Sunnybank' FCC/AOC. I much prefer these roth petal stance St Swithin's. I find most of the St Swithin's (even awarded ones) have terrible petal stances.

Having said all that the price on this division is insane. Despite what the seller says, that plant is a fair way off flowering size - 38cm LS is pretty small. So that is a huge jump in price. Things are getting out of control.

Well, it is for sure from UK breeding lines, according to the flower shape, color, and my experience with some St Swithin from Racliffe, I am absolutely sure it is a progeny of the real Commander... I wonder how many of the Commander selfings are still around Australia, but I would think there must be some definitely. Gorgeous roths ( like Wendy one). The price can be justified because the shape and color are really good, and it is for sure a good parent...

 

[emydura]

Well, it is for sure from UK breeding lines, according to the flower shape, color, and my experience with some St Swithin from Racliffe, I am absolutely sure it is a progeny of the real Commander... I wonder how many of the Commander selfings are still around Australia, but I would think there must be some definitely. Gorgeous roths ( like Wendy one). The price can be justified because the shape and color are really good, and it is for sure a good parent...

I think you are right. I was told that all those great Australian St Swithin clones such as 'Sunnybank' originated from English breeding.

 

[quietaustralian]

Yes, it is probably just us trying to outbid each other. oke:

Doh!!! Did you beat me again and with the same vendor? I did'nt get a second chance offer on this one..yet:evil:

Mick

 

[emydura]

Doh!!! Did you beat me again and with the same vendor? I did'nt get a second chance offer on this one..yet:evil:

Mick

No, just the once (I think). Stay tuned to see what you missed out on.

 

[quietaustralian]

No, just the once (I think). Stay tuned to see what you missed out on.

Lol!!

 

[emydura]

I think we have been warned about this eBay seller previously. I'm pretty sure I know where this roth came from and as such it would be impossible for 'Rex' to be one of the parents. In fact, I have not heard of anyone making this cross although I can't say for sure it hasn't been done.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Orchid-P...?pt=AU_Plants_Seeds_Bulbs&hash=item2ec33a7462

 

[jimspaphs]

Saint Swithin`Sunnybank`

I think you are right. I was told that all those great Australian St Swithin clones such as 'Sunnybank' originated from English breeding.

`Sunnybank`FCC was grown from flask by Mackinneys Nursery(no longer operating) --The flasks came from Ratcliffe and many of them are top quality. Aries---Taurus--Gemeni--Leo---Libra---Scorpio--Sagittarius--Summer Storm---Marie---Q'lander--Sunnybank---Highland Prince--Jay-Dee ---

 

[Ozpaph]

Unfortunately, the 2 seedlings I brought as a young fella from my time at Mackinney's were duds (still have them some 30+yrs on). I seem to remember some German flasks coming in at one stage - ???roths seddlings.

 

[emydura]

Unfortunately, the 2 seedlings I brought as a young fella from my time at Mackinney's were duds (still have them some 30+yrs on)..

St Swithin's? They must be huge now?

 

[Ozpaph]

Divided many times over.
Unfortunately a few years ago I divided a huge one and almost every division got some awful leaf rot which still plagues some of the pieces. It was never a problem before an just when I think I've cured it, back it comes

 

[Ozpaph]

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[emydura]

Divided many times over.
Unfortunately a few years ago I divided a huge one and almost every division got some awful leaf rot which still plagues some of the pieces. It was never a problem before an just when I think I've cured it, back it comes

That is why I'm reluctant to divide. If they are growing well, let them be. But I guess there comes a time when they become unmanageable.

So is that an earlier photo before you divided or a current one? Beautiful healthy plant.

So this came from the same flasks as Sunnybank etc.?