Paph. Rene, a cross of Paph. tranlienianum

[ORG]

Not so well known are the hybrids of Paphiopedilum tranlienianum. All these hybrids grow and flower very well and easy on the windowsill.
Here a cross which flowered now the third time in 2 years, The cross with Paph. barbigerum, the Paph. René.
I am sure that the variety Paph. barbigerum var. corccineum was used for this cross.

Best greetings

Olaf

 

[SlipperKing]

I'm, hard pressed to see anything but tranlienianum in this flower. Thanks

 

[JeanLux]

for sure there's a lot of tranlienianum, maybe the dorsal and the pouch are less typical!!! Jean

 

[emydura]

I agree. It is hard to see any barbigerum.

David

 

[nikv]

Is it possible for a primary cross to be identical to one of it's parents and not show any signs of it's other parent? Reason I ask is because there's also a question about the orchid in the Paph Pinoccio thread, too.

 

[Drorchid]

Is it possible for a primary cross to be identical to one of it's parents and not show any signs of it's other parent? Reason I ask is because there's also a question about the orchid in the Paph Pinoccio thread, too.

That would only be possible, if when the cross was made some of the pollen of the mother/pod plant came onto the stigma as well, so in the seedlings you can get a mixture of true hybrids and selfings.

Robert

 

[goldenrose]

I love both species, barbigerum can be quite variable ...... but ..... hmmm ...... when I opened Lance's book for a side by side comparison (page 84 tran & page 85 barb), looks like tran all the way!

 

[GuRu]

Is it possible for a primary cross to be identical to one of it's parents and not show any signs of it's other parent? Reason I ask is because there's also a question about the orchid in the Paph Pinoccio thread, too.

Heredity is a difficult thing but according to the Mendelian laws that is absolutely possible!
Now it's getting hard to find the right English words because English isn't my Mothers tongue but I will try it.
The first Mendelian law the 'uniformity law' says there are two possibilities:
- in the dominat-recessive heredity all progenies/offspring look the same as the dominant parent
- in the intermediate heredity the characteristics/features of all progenies/offspring are a mixture of their parents ones.
Please don't request me to explain the Mendelian law 2 and 3 in English that's impossible to me.

Best regards from Germany, rudolf

 

[Hien]

Not so well known are the hybrids of Paphiopedilum tranlienianum. All these hybrids grow and flower very well and easy on the windowsill.
Here a cross which flowered now the third time in 2 years, The cross with Paph. barbigerum, the Paph. René.
I am sure that the variety Paph. barbigerum var. corccineum was used for this cross.

Best greetings

Olaf

Olaf, how does this one compare to the flower of a red tranlienianum? I saw a red tranlienianum on a chinese or japanese website. Miki orchids.

 

[John M]

That is very interesting, Olaf. Thank you for posting it!

 

[Drorchid]

Heredity is a difficult thing but according to the Mendelian laws that is absolutely possible!
Now it's getting hard to find the right English words because English isn't my Mothers tongue but I will try it.
The first Mendelian law the 'uniformity law' says there are two possibilities:
- in the dominat-recessive heredity all progenies/offspring look the same as the dominant parent
- in the intermediate heredity the characteristics/features of all progenies/offspring are a mixture of their parents ones.
Please don't request me to explain the Mendelian law 2 and 3 in English that's impossible to me.

Best regards from Germany, rudolf

The Mendelian laws that you are referring to usually only apply within a species cross or plants that have the same chromosome number, say you cross a pink form to a yellow form of the same species, or one that has ruffled petals with one that has no ruffled petals.

When you cross 2 species, usually your F1 generation will look intermediate between the 2 parents. It is true that some characters may be dominant, others intermediate or others recessive, but in general the hybrid will look intermediate. It is very rare (I know of no example) when you cross 2 different species, that the hybrid will look almost identical to only one of the parents.

Robert

 

[nikv]

Thank you, everyone. This is turning into an interesting discussion!

 

[GuRu]

The Mendelian laws that you are referring to usually only apply within a species cross or plants that have the same chromosome number, say you cross a pink form to a yellow form of the same species, or one that has ruffled petals with one that has no ruffled petals.

Usually species are diploid so this is a valid law for a cross between two species. Triploid or tetraploid plants are the rare exception.

When you cross 2 species, usually your F1 generation will look intermediate between the 2 parents. It is true that some characters may be dominant, others intermediate or others recessive, but in general the hybrid will look intermediate. It is very rare (I know of no example) when you cross 2 different species, that the hybrid will look almost identical to only one of the parents.

You are right the possibility is very low to get a progeny that looks almost identically to one of its parents but it exists.
Best regrds from Germany, rudolf

 

[Drorchid]

You are right the possibility is very low to get a progeny that looks almost identically to one of its parents but it exists.
Best regrds from Germany, rudolf

Can you show me an example? I would be interested to see it. I have done a lot of hybridizing with orchids, and whenever I make a primary cross between 2 species the hybrid looks intermediate between both parents; you can always see traits from both parents in the hybrid. I am not saying that it is not possible that you can get a hybrid between 2 species that just looks like one of the species, but I would be interested to see such a hybrid.

Robert

 

[ORG]

Dear Hien,
I could not verify the the picture of the red tranlienianum. I found only a picturere of Papht. tranlienianum 'Miki' and another without name which looks like a Paph. herrmannii.

Best greetings

Olaf

 

[kentuckiense]

That would only be possible, if when the cross was made some of the pollen of the mother/pod plant came onto the stigma as well, so in the seedlings you can get a mixture of true hybrids and selfings.

Robert

Could also happen if the pod parent rejected the pollen and instead underwent apomixis.

 

[Drorchid]

Could also happen if the pod parent rejected the pollen and instead underwent apomixis.

Very True. This actually happens with Dandelions. All dandelions are actually clones of one another, but I don't know of any cases of apomixis in orchids, do you?

Robert

 

[kentuckiense]

Very True. This actually happens with Dandelions. All dandelions are actually clones of one another, but I don't know of any cases of apomixis in orchids, do you?

Robert

My memory is fuzzy, but I think it is fairly common in Zygos and I believe it has been "documented" in a Cyp., maybe reginae or pubescens.

Didn't OL try to cross a Phrag. onto a Cyp. pubescens pod parent and the resulting seedlings all turned out to be pubescens?

 

[Leo Schordje]

My thought is that barbigerum and tranlienianum are very closely related, for many things - such as staminode, dorsal stance - etc they are nearly identical. The photo may not be showing to advantage the 'blended' traits we were looking for. Another photo, possibly with one or both of the parent plants in the photo would be ideal.. A photo from a lower angle up into the flower might show you more of the hybrid character of the plant.

Leo

 

[Roy]

This is a lovely flower but as has been mentioned, its similarity to tranliemianum makes me shudder when I think of this cross being tabled at a show of club meeting as P.tranliemianum. For those growers & Judges not highly familiar with the parents may find it difficult not to accept the label.