Paph {(via recompensa x Kimberley Szabo) x Legacy} 'Titan'

[paphioland]

I like it a lot! It has excellent shape, which can only improve over time, and I like the colors too. I think it should be very useful in red or pink breeding. You mentioned that it has useful traits to breed with, are you going to breed with it yourself?

Robert

Thanks.

Yes, I have bred it already but the pod got damaged

 

[Kevin]

Crosses don't get named unless someone wants it enough to file the paperwork and pay for it. Only the breeder has the right, unless they choose to allow someone else to do it or the breeder can't be identified or found. Also, a cross can't be named unless both parents are named. Other than the breeder, the only ones who might be motivated to name a cross are usually those who get an award or use it in a successful cross.

Thanks. That makes sense, but why would a breeder not want to name their own cross? Unless it was an extreme amount of money, it just seems silly not to name it.

 

[Candace]

it just seems silly not to name it.

Not silly at all. If a commercial breeder does say a hundred crosses a year it's $12 each to register. So, your talking quite a bit of money. You can do the math if you do 200 etc. If the cross blooms out as an ugly duckling or not as anticipated, the breeder is even less motivated to name and register it.

 

[Kevin]

If it's ugly, then of course, no need to name it, as you will probably not sell any. Don't you usually wait until the plant has bloomed before naming it? That would avoid all unnecessary namings. My point, is that, if the plant gets into the market, and is bred, and the progeny used to breed again, wouldn't you want your mark on it? Perhaps some people don't care about that, but it does make it much easier for everyone else, not having to write such a long name. Anyway, this is off-topic of this thread (I seem to do that).

 

[Corbin]

Not silly at all. If a commercial breeder does say a hundred crosses a year it's $12 each to register. So, your talking quite a bit of money. You can do the math if you do 200 etc. If the cross blooms out as an ugly duckling or not as anticipated, the breeder is even less motivated to name and register it.

I have been asked a time or two, when I post a picture of a flower, if I have given it a name. Let's say for the sake of the discussion it is a spicerianum which I realize is a species and not a cross. You often see species with names added to their species designation. So what is that all about?
would the same appy to a cross that already had a name? Not trying to hijack this thread but simply to continue the name question for those of us who do not fully understand all the naming. Just call me confused.

 

[Candace]

A clonal name is different from a registered name. It can get confusing. Say you have a spicerianum. It's a decent plant and you believe it should have a clonal name. You name it Paph. spicerianum 'Corbin'. It is a different plant genetically from my spicerianum 'Candace'.

Now, I take Paph. spicerianum 'Candace' and cross it to my Paph. Norito Hasegawa 'Whatever' (and for sake of argument it's an unregistered cross) and get a bunch of seedlings. After I bloom one I can choose to register the cross. But, in the time being I've sold some as unregistered seedlings and people have given them clonal names. A tag could read (Paph. spicerianum 'Candace' x Norito Hasegawa 'Whatever') 'Gigantic'. Now, because I'm a hobby breeder. I would be apt to register and name all my crosses. But for commercial breeders who do a hundred crosses a year, they may not register a cross for several reasons. And not every plant is given a clonal name. I'd say probably 90% of my paphs don't have clonal names. Many are seedlings and haven't bloomed and really I only give clonal names to those that are of excellent quality or I'm dividing. Really, if a plant is divided both divisions should be given the same clonal name, before passing on a piece to someone else. This has led to some awards being given to the same plant with two different clonal names(but genetically the same plant).

Does that help or just confuse more?

 

[PaphMadMan]

... Really, if a plant is divided both divisions should be given the same clonal name, before passing on a piece to someone else. This has led to some awards being given to the same plant with two different clonal names(but genetically the same plant).

That deserves to be emphasized: Any plant that is divided should (I would say must) get a clonal name.

If it is a vigorous grower and reasonably attractive there could end up being dozens or hundreds of plant out there eventually, leading to confusion. Someone could cross 2 of them thinking they are doing a species outcross when it is really a sefling, for instance. Anyone can give a clonal name anytime, just try to make it something unique enough that no one else will choose the same name accidentally, and try to make sure that every plant of the clone gets the name attached.

 

[NYEric]

I just found it unusual for a plant to bloom sideways in the direction of it's leaves, almost like someone didn't have room to face the bud in the direction of the sun.

Why not???? The position of the bloom facement relative to the growth changes with environmental factors.

 

[SlipperKing]

This name disscussion reminds me of a Noris Powell story. I guess I can tell it since he is no longer with us. Remember this is just a story. Noris selfed a fairly famous Maudiae, Maudiae 'Los Osos' which has an AM/AOS and sold selfings as "Maudiae Los Osos". People thought they were getting the real deal. Some of the offspring were real dogs and of course it came out what was really done. Now, this fairly famous slipper lady from Calif. who had dealt with Noris for years matched into his greenhouse, grabbed up Maudiae 'Los Osos', knock it out of the pot and tore a big piece off. As she was leaving, she turned towards Noris and said "Now I have a piece of Los Osos". I think her name was Kay Rinamon. I don't know how true this story is but that is how it was told to me.
A plant clonal name means allot to some people, don't mess them up.

 

[Corbin]

If I may continue the name discussion I would like to. Should I do it here or would it be better to start a new thread?

 

[Candace]

It probably would be a good idea to start a new thread so everyone will see it.