Rick
Well-Known Member
Staminode is a bit out of alignment, but a pretty flower none the less.
Paph virens
- Thread starter Rick
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Staminode is a bit out of alignment, but a pretty flower none the less.
Spaph
Well-Known Member
Nice blooming, the foliage of these is quite something as well right?
Evergreen
Well-Known Member
Nice!
Rick
Well-Known Member
Looks just like callosum or sukhakulii. Nothing really different.
wjs2nd
Well-Known Member
Beautiful bloom.
papheteer
Well-Known Member
I haven't seen that one before! Nice one! Looks hard to grow
SlipperFan
Addicted
Nice.
i haven't seen many of these - thanks.
Rick
Well-Known Member
There's some debate that they are a variety of Paph javanica (from Borneo).
I did loose my first one several years ago. Boomed and busted, but never bloomed.
I got this one from Tom Kalina about a year or so ago, and its been growing (and bloomed) Ok.
The Orchid Boy
Well-Known Member
I like the interesting color combinations.
The Mutant
Well-Known Member
The foliage of my callosum and sukhakulii doesn't look the same...
Nice Paph you've got there, though.
Rick
Well-Known Member
The foliage of my callosum and sukhakulii doesn't look the same...
Callosum is highly variable and even suk has some variation from plant to plant.
But if you just have a couple plants from the same sources, and really look hard I'm sure you could tell them apart. But if you check out a lot of callosums (from different sources), and put them all on the same table at once, you'd probably think you are looking at half a dozen different species.
To me its kind of like Coke vs Pepsi. I can't tell the difference, but some people say they can tell blindfolded!
Kew says P. virens is a synonym. The accepted name is Paph javanicum P.javanicum and according to Kew is even P. javanicum var. virens a synonym.
Yours is a lovely flower - congrats !
Rick
Well-Known Member
Kew says P. virens is a synonym. The accepted name is Paph javanicum P.javanicum and according to Kew is even P. javanicum var. virens a synonym.
Yours is a lovely flower - congrats !
Thanks
I took it down to the judging center (wonky stam and all) just to get a read on that issue. In AOS it showed up as javanica var virens.
There's definitely a differnce in color between the forms from Borneo and the ones from the rest of the range.
I'll leave the virens on the label as a way of tracking the source (local??)
SlipperKing
Madd Virologist
Nice clone to have in your collection Rick
emydura
Well-Known Member
Nice one Rick. Not commonly seen.
I was reading the Oct-Dec Orchid Digest where Harold Koopowitz has an updated annotated checklist of Paphs. In this he names numerous new species, many of which I have never heard of. But for virens he says "virens falls comfortably into the concept of P. javanicum. Differences seem to be so small that it hardly seems useful to maintain them as different varieties".
Kew says P. virens is a synonym. The accepted name is Paph javanicum P.javanicum and according to Kew is even P. javanicum var. virens a synonym.
Yours is a lovely flower - congrats !
I was reading the Oct-Dec Orchid Digest where Harold Koopowitz has an updated annotated checklist of Paphs. In this he names numerous new species, many of which I have never heard of. But for virens he says "virens falls comfortably into the concept of P. javanicum. Differences seem to be so small that it hardly seems useful to maintain them as different varieties".
JPMC
Well-Known Member
I think that the plant sold to me as Paphiopedilum sugiyamanum (http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28492) is really javanicum (like yours). At least to my eyes there is very little difference. That said, a plant sold to me a javanicum perished very quickly under the same conditions that my alleged sugiyamanum.
Did the petals on the "sugiyamanum" ever reflex bask? You people are killing me with these nice non-Parvi species plants!
JPMC
Well-Known Member
Yes, they did.
Leo Schordje
wilted blossom
In the old days, back when I was just learning about paphs, there were 3 recognized species that were later group together by Cribb as Paph javanicum. All three were so similar in flower that Cribb's collapsing them into one species made some sense. But if you had a group of each of the three, the vegetation patterns, and growth habit seems to separate them into identifiable groups.
originally, Paph javanicum ONLY came from the island of Java. It had the most beautiful of foliage patterns, in some ways more like venustum, but in green, white and silver. It had none of the red or brown markings on the leaves that venustum has. Very pretty leaves. Most of what I have seen these days labelled javanicum does not look at all like the javanicums of the Ray Rands days.
Paph virens - came from Borneo, which is not all that far from Java. Flower nearly identical, foliage rather boring compared to javanicum, a square block tesselation that looks a lot like callosum or barbatum. This type is what I have seen lately labelled as javanicum
Paph purpurescens (sensu Fowlie) - this was a geographic race identified by Fowlie, also from somewhere on the island of Borneo. Its foliage is a bit darker green than virens, not dramatic enough to say much more than it might be a geographic race, but it is a little different in foliage. In the late 1970's and early 1980's I got to see quite a number of these plants. But after Dick Clemments passed away, I never again saw a group of these in any one place.
So with the flowers being similar enough that I could not tell them apart by flower, Crib might be right in collapsing them under the same species name. But if you ever saw a Paph javanicum that really came from Java, you would immediately think it was a different species just by the foliage. Sadly, in the USA the last living 'true' javanicum I know of died in 1994. Haven't seen one I thought was from Java since. Another species lost to cultivation only to have its name co-opted by its less attractive cousin.
I could be wrong, anyone out there with a 'true' javanicum? That has a verified provenance to a Java origin?
originally, Paph javanicum ONLY came from the island of Java. It had the most beautiful of foliage patterns, in some ways more like venustum, but in green, white and silver. It had none of the red or brown markings on the leaves that venustum has. Very pretty leaves. Most of what I have seen these days labelled javanicum does not look at all like the javanicums of the Ray Rands days.
Paph virens - came from Borneo, which is not all that far from Java. Flower nearly identical, foliage rather boring compared to javanicum, a square block tesselation that looks a lot like callosum or barbatum. This type is what I have seen lately labelled as javanicum
Paph purpurescens (sensu Fowlie) - this was a geographic race identified by Fowlie, also from somewhere on the island of Borneo. Its foliage is a bit darker green than virens, not dramatic enough to say much more than it might be a geographic race, but it is a little different in foliage. In the late 1970's and early 1980's I got to see quite a number of these plants. But after Dick Clemments passed away, I never again saw a group of these in any one place.
So with the flowers being similar enough that I could not tell them apart by flower, Crib might be right in collapsing them under the same species name. But if you ever saw a Paph javanicum that really came from Java, you would immediately think it was a different species just by the foliage. Sadly, in the USA the last living 'true' javanicum I know of died in 1994. Haven't seen one I thought was from Java since. Another species lost to cultivation only to have its name co-opted by its less attractive cousin.
I could be wrong, anyone out there with a 'true' javanicum? That has a verified provenance to a Java origin?
