Phrag. besseae: Differences between wild types?

[Vox]

Two years ago I got my first pure besseae, and after some difficulties (not enough watering…) now it’s growing okay. I always was a fan of this little beauty, and now I’m thinking of getting more of them. I know that there are “common” besseae to be purchased, and also line breeding types, like those Popow is selling here.

But on the other hand there seem to be wild forms, that might differ from the commonly sold besseae: Ecuagenera is selling four different forms that seem to be wild types from different locations (Limon, Chiguinda, Guarumales, Amazonas). There a pictures on their website, but honestly I can’t see the concrete differences of these types. By the way, that besseae on my windowsill is such an „Amazonas“. It didn’t flower till now.

Could anyone please say something about the specifications of these Ecuagenera types? In this forum there are older threads dealing with a Peruvian besseae. Is this Peru besseae identical with one of those Ecuagenera-besseae?

I'm simply not sure what I should look for. I could imagine that wild types for me are more interesting than "common" besseae. Thanks for opinions!

Thanks and sorry for my bad English. I’m working on it.
Greetings, Volker

 

[tenman]

AFAIK, there are only two recognized varieties other than the type form: dalessandroi and flavum, and I'm not entirely certain of the formal status of the yellow, it may be forma, etc, since it's only a difference in color. There are, of course, different shades of color from a deeper red through bright orange and on to pale peach, but those are not considered 'varieties' in the formal sense.

 

[NYEric]

Color (flavum) is not a form. There are definitely differences in the forms. The original collected type from Peru has nicest shape and good color but limited flowers and does not branch. P. besseae dalessandroi was collected in Ecuador by Denis and has drooping lateral sepals and has a more orangey color, but it branches freely, holds multiple blooms per spike, and has the yellow colorburst in the center.
The Chiguinda and Guarumales are similar, the flowers are poorly shaped and smaller than the first 2 types, but the plants branch freely, hold multiple blooms per spike and are darker (more red) than v. dalessandroi.
I don't have experience with type from Limon.

 

[tomkalina]

Phrag. besseae fma flavum Braem is a form (“fma”) according to Braem.

 

[tomkalina]

.....and Cribb.

 

[Stone]

Color (flavum) is not a form. There are definitely differences in the forms. The original collected type from Peru has nicest shape and good color but limited flowers and does not branch. P. besseae dalessandroi was collected in Ecuador by Denis and has drooping lateral sepals and has a more orangey color, but it branches freely, holds multiple blooms per spike, and has the yellow colorburst in the center.
The Chiguinda and Guarumales are similar, the flowers are poorly shaped and smaller than the first 2 types, but the plants branch freely, hold multiple blooms per spike and are darker (more red) than v. dalessandroi.
I don't have experience with type from Limon.

Colour is ''form'' not variety. It cannot be anything else.

 

[ORG]

Phrag. besseae forma flava is an accepted classification. It is not known how many besseae flava were found in the past. It was told only one plant. but I don't trust it.
When you are interested in the different local races, then look to my book About the genus. There I showed a lot of Pictures of plants of the different regions, but also mixtures.
Here one plant cultivated in Germany by Franz Glanz. I had around 12 inflorescences

 

[NYEric]

Olaf, Ask Franz where he got it. I still believe all flavums come from the sport Tom Kalina grew from Popow.

 

[BrucherT]

Phrag. besseae forma flava is an accepted classification. It is not known how many besseae flava were found in the past. It was told only one plant. but I don't trust it.
When you are interested in the different local races, then look to my book About the genus. There I showed a lot of Pictures of plants of the different regions, but also mixtures.
Here one plant cultivated in Germany by Franz Glanz. I had around 12 inflorescencesView attachment 18106 View attachment 18107

Holy god.

 

[BrucherT]

Phrag. besseae fma flavum Braem is a form (“fma”) according to Braem.

Hey Tom, what light can you shed on the yellow form? You have quite the story....

 

[tomkalina]

The only additional light worth shedding is that the correct name of the yellow form is Phrag. besseae fma flavum Braem, not "flava" because the Genus epithet ends in M (masculine) not A (feminine). It would be called forma flava if it was a Cattleya,Miltonia, etc.

 

[tomkalina]

Phrag. besseae forma flava is an accepted classification. It is not known how many besseae flava were found in the past. It was told only one plant. but I don't trust it.
When you are interested in the different local races, then look to my book About the genus. There I showed a lot of Pictures of plants of the different regions, but also mixtures.
Here one plant cultivated in Germany by Franz Glanz. I had around 12 inflorescencesView attachment 18106 View attachment 18107

Good book, Olaf. I wish it was published in English instead of German.

 

[richgarrison]

Good book, Olaf. I wish it was published in English instead of German.

reminds me of a conversation i had with Olaf at the paph forum a few years ago, where he had a few copies of the book. He looked at me with a smile and said, it has a lot of nice pictures.

I truly wish i spent more time staying up on my german from college...

 

[NYEric]

I have the German book on South American Lady Slippers by Olaf. I should start the translation!!!

 

[Vox]

Are you talking about Olaf Gruß, Lateinamerikanische Frauenschuhe, Ruhmannsfelden 2014? It seems to be completely sold out by all common providers... :-(

 

[NYEric]

Yes. I spoke to my GF today about it. Her German is decent so we will look into it.

 

[richgarrison]

but then i need a copy of that book seems like it's value is already skyrocketing based on your post

 

[Vox]

Yes. I spoke to my GF today about it. Her German is decent so we will look into it.

That's a nice project. If you need any help - my English might be quite bad, but my German definitely is better... ;-I

 

[NYEric]

Hahah. You can look at mine in NYC.

 

[ORG]

For persons, who did not Need all the Pictures, my Editor produced my smaller book About the genus some monthes ago. Around 120 pages with nearly 300 Pictures.
Perhaps it would be interesting to produce a english Version of my first book, ut it is difficult to find an Editor for.

Olaf



Best greetings

Olaf