D
Drorchid
Guest
They are usually exact clones with the same genetic makeup. As an example is our Phrag. besseae 'Iccarus' clone. This was a seedling that kept poliferating, and I kept track of the individual clone.
Help Support Slippertalk Orchid Forum:
They are usually exact clones with the same genetic makeup. As an example is our Phrag. besseae 'Iccarus' clone. This was a seedling that kept poliferating, and I kept track of the individual clone.
When seedlings proliferate do you always keep track of the individual clones or are there often random seedlings created in each flask that are clones of siblings? Do those "twins" become part of the mixed general population?
For some reason my question seems a little hard to write into words, does it make sense?
D
Drorchid
Guest
Yes it makes sense. When I am dealing with an important cross, and I only have a few seedlings that germinated (less than 20), Yes, I keep track of the individual clones. But say if I am dealing with a sib cross of a species, and I get 500 seedlings to germinate. Even though they are proliferating, no I don't keep track of the individual clones, so in the end when you have 200 seedlings in that cross that get planted out (I usually don't keep all of them, but select the most vigorous ones) you can end up with 10 seedlings within the 200 that are actually clones of each other, so to answer your question, yes those "twins" become part of the mixed general population. Another reason I don't track them if I have a lot of germination, it is harder to determine what the individual clones/seedlings are.
Also this proliferation does not always occur, most of the time you get one plant out of each seedling. Or sometimes I only get a few seedlings to germinate, of which only one or 2 will proliferate, but the others will not.
Robert
Also this proliferation does not always occur, most of the time you get one plant out of each seedling. Or sometimes I only get a few seedlings to germinate, of which only one or 2 will proliferate, but the others will not.
Robert
Is there any relation to vigor and the proliferation? Do the individuals that proliferate tend to be the most vigorous or weakest?
D
Drorchid
Guest
Not that I can tell. (I think it is a genetic trait that alows them to proliferate or not, but it is not neccesarily linked to vigor).
From my observations with phrags, is that the seed media will affect proliferation quite a bit.
I would like to find out a media recipe that doesn't cause proliferation, and encourages root growth. I have phrags to replate in the next couple of weeks.
Kyle
I would like to find out a media recipe that doesn't cause proliferation, and encourages root growth. I have phrags to replate in the next couple of weeks.
Kyle
D
Drorchid
Guest
I agree, that the media has a big effect too, but that does not explain why some seedlings within the same cross do proliferate and others do not. Also I have noticed that long petalled species (caudatum etc) tend not to proliferate, while anything with besseae proliferates a lot (even if you use the same media).
To prevent too much proliferation I have increased the percentage of auxins, and have noticed that seems to help (promotes root growth and inhibits shoot formation).
Robert
Your right that long petals don't appear to proliferate. I got wallisi x kovachii and not a single proliferation, while my kovachii x besseae and kovachii x schlimii proliferated like crazy. Now I just have to get them to grow roots.
What do you use as an auxin? Would banana be a good source? Do you use charcoal in your replate media?
Kyle
What do you use as an auxin? Would banana be a good source? Do you use charcoal in your replate media?
Kyle
Have you noticed if the plants that you produced with the proliferation tend to grow more shoots when they mature than their normal siblings? In other words does the genetic trait to proliferate in the seed flask carry through to adult hood to make a busher plant?
So what you will wind up with is a a lot of plants that are clones as opposed to a lot of different seedlings.
I wonder how many kovachii species seedlings are actually repetitious clones rather than unique individuals? That would certainly account for all the pictures of the kovachii protocorm masses people have posted in the flasks they bought. Maybe the kovachii gene pool is going to be rather small.
Lance your right, I will end up with a bunch of clones. But the wallisi cross should be all distinct clones. I agree the pools will be smaller then assumed.
I really think that the sowing media makes a big difference in the amount of proliferation. I have been able to get proliferation from the species seedlings I got in June. Not much, but a few.
Kyle
I really think that the sowing media makes a big difference in the amount of proliferation. I have been able to get proliferation from the species seedlings I got in June. Not much, but a few.
Kyle
D
Drorchid
Guest
No, once they are out of the lab (not growing on tissue culture) they don't seem to proliferate/become bushy anymore, and the ones that proliferated in the lab grow the same compared to the ones that did not proliferate.
Thanks for the info it is very interesting.
Kyle,
I agree with you totally about the medium formula assessment.
All my pk flasks from peru-flora proliferate like crazy. small things grow by the hundred but not too many roots.
I think they should adjust the formula to reduce the proliferation & transfer some of those grow energy to the root system.
I may be wrong but I think Peruflora formula may be the answer to get a lot of identical clones for phrag. But you do have to switch the formula at 1st replate stage to stop that tendency & encourage roots development.
Were they already proliferating when you got them or did you induce the proliferation?
Lance,
When I first got the flasks, there are 7 single growth seedlings in each.
After a while, each of them becomes 20 growths or more, but they don't grow bigger or grow large leaf. sometimes they produce these broccoli head at the top of the trunk, sometimes tiny pieces from those broccoli head detach themselves, fall onto the medium & start again (I did not move or touch the flasks, so no movement that would induce the detaching)
tan
Well-Known Member
Nice,
white color? you are getting there.....
white color? you are getting there.....
The ones that survive the heat are alive, the one that can not handle the heat die.
Yes they still do this crazy thing, brocoli head & sprout. If I have a lab facility, I bet I can divide 30 plantlets from each of the original seedling
But, because of the roots are scarce & the leaves are needle thin, most of the deflasked ones have a tough time to survive. I am sure professional growers get totally different outcome.
I may have to take them out no matter what regardless of sizes & roots situation , because they seems to approach the exhaution stage now.
I never seen this before in any flask that I bought (this formula is very different) I seen the same thing with another person's Peru-flora pk flask.
So it is not coincidental.
I suspect that if you can unveil this proprietary formula, you hold in your hand the key to mericlone the slipper orchids. Or close to that goal.
Why don't you send your protocorms to a lab and have them divided and repleted onto medium that will induce roots? Or buy the supplies and do it yourself in your kitchen?
Similar threads
