Phrag schlimii 'Afton'

[NYEric]

Nice schlimii. Someone needs to check what is awarded as schlimii now.

 

[Yoyo_Jo]

This is the description in OrchidWiz of one of the most recent awards:

"Phragmipedium schlimii 'Eichenfel's Rosa' CCE/AOS 95 Points, 2008 February 16

Thirty-nine attractive flowers (one fallen in transit) and 30 buds beautifully presented on 35 inflorescences; flowers well-spaced above remarkably immaculate dark green foliage; stunning plant 110 cm wide by 90 cm high grown in a 38-cm plastic pot; sepals and petals light pink, basally blushed dark rose; pouch white heavily overlaid rose; substance average; texture matte; recognized as a significant improvement over previous 90 point CCE."

 

[JeanLux]

Very nice schlimii Ross!!! Jean

(I have one plant from OL labelled 'Pink Snow' x 'Afton')

 

[John M]

Joanne; can you tell us more about that awarded plant? Where was it awarded? I'm having difficulty believing that it is a pure schlimii with a height of 90cm. True schlimii is one of the smaller species. However, a well grown Phrag. Cardinale masquerading as schlimii could reach that height. Is there a photo anywhere?

 

[phrag guy]

nice flower,Orchid limited must have a plant with same name as they use it in there Pink Panther

 

[nikv]

Lovely! Wish I could grow one of these.

 

[SlipperFan]

How did I miss this thread???

That's a great schlimii, Ross -- it looks perfect!

 

[Yoyo_Jo]

Joanne; can you tell us more about that awarded plant? Where was it awarded? I'm having difficulty believing that it is a pure schlimii with a height of 90cm. True schlimii is one of the smaller species. However, a well grown Phrag. Cardinale masquerading as schlimii could reach that height. Is there a photo anywhere?

Northeast Center Monthly Judging, Elmsford, New York. Awarded to Phil & Ann Jesup of Bristol, Conneticut.

That same clone had won a CCM in 2001 & a CCE in 2005.

 

[Kevin]

Does OrchidWiz have a picture of it? That would be something to see!

 

[John M]

Does OrchidWiz have a picture of it? That would be something to see!

I'd love to see this one. At 90cm's tall, there's gotta be a story behind this one too!

 

[Yoyo_Jo]

Nope, no picture in Orchidwiz.

But the 2005 award information in OrchidWiz does say that there is a picture in A.Q. Vol 36 (2005) p. 277.

 

[Gilda]

:clap: Lovely ! Good to see one blooming..mine is sulking after a repot.

 

[goldenrose]

This is the description in OrchidWiz of one of the most recent awards:
"Phragmipedium schlimii 'Eichenfel's Rosa' CCE/AOS 95 Points, 2008 February 16
Thirty-nine attractive flowers (one fallen in transit) and 30 buds beautifully presented on 35 inflorescences; flowers well-spaced above remarkably immaculate dark green foliage; stunning plant 110 cm wide by 90 cm high grown in a 38-cm plastic pot; sepals and petals light pink, basally blushed dark rose; pouch white heavily overlaid rose; substance average; texture matte; recognized as a significant improvement over previous 90 point CCE."

I, too, would love to see that one like everyone else!
John mentioned the height & could be a Cardinale, most Cardinales I've seen haven't looked like a pure schlimi, one would hope the judges would know better. Just reading the description, this plant is award worthy no matter what it is!

:clap: Lovely ! Good to see one blooming..mine is sulking after a repot.

This is normal for schlimi? Overall is schlimi a bit more challenging to grow than other phrags? How about it's X's?

 

[Rick]

I, too, would love to see that one like everyone else!
John mentioned the height & could be a Cardinale, most Cardinales I've seen haven't looked like a pure schlimi, one would hope the judges would know better.

Rose the old awarded schlimii Wilcox turned out to be a Cardinale, so at least those judges didn't know betteroke:oke:

I picked up a "schlimii" not in bloom that was huge. When it finally bloomed, it didn't look quite right compared to "typical" schlimii. Especially the overall large size and staminode coloration. It matched Wilcox (Cardinale) pics and stats more than the nominal schlimii, so I renamed it as Cardinale and gave it away. Maybe next year someone will come across a wild population of huge Cardinale like shlimii and name it var. gigantius :sob:

Since quality awards are for "improvements" to the species ( size, color, etc.) I don't think its all that hard to imagine that when judges presented with a bigger/better of anything will prefer to judge the plant as represented rather than assuming its a fraudulent hybrid right off the top. Going back through old awards records I found more than one occasion when a hybrid was awarded as a species. Probably most of these bad calls are due to poor record keeping accidents rather than outright fraud. The option is to make every award provisional pending taxonomic verification, which would probably nullify 80% of awards since improved flowers wouldn't match the type description. Maybe there should be no more quality awards for species and just have cultural awards for species. Maybe that would encourage better documentation of origion, and encourage people to grow individual clones of species better, which would include better flowers as a criteria.

 

[duane mcdowell]

Dick Sonnen is the grower's name. He's a wonderful grower and a great guy.

 

[duane mcdowell]

Rose the old awarded schlimii Wilcox turned out to be a Cardinale, so at least those judges didn't know betteroke:oke:

I picked up a "schlimii" not in bloom that was huge. When it finally bloomed, it didn't look quite right compared to "typical" schlimii. Especially the overall large size and staminode coloration. It matched Wilcox (Cardinale) pics and stats more than the nominal schlimii, so I renamed it as Cardinale and gave it away. Maybe next year someone will come across a wild population of huge Cardinale like shlimii and name it var. gigantius :sob:

Since quality awards are for "improvements" to the species ( size, color, etc.) I don't think its all that hard to imagine that when judges presented with a bigger/better of anything will prefer to judge the plant as represented rather than assuming its a fraudulent hybrid right off the top. Going back through old awards records I found more than one occasion when a hybrid was awarded as a species. Probably most of these bad calls are due to poor record keeping accidents rather than outright fraud. The option is to make every award provisional pending taxonomic verification, which would probably nullify 80% of awards since improved flowers wouldn't match the type description. Maybe there should be no more quality awards for species and just have cultural awards for species. Maybe that would encourage better documentation of origion, and encourage people to grow individual clones of species better, which would include better flowers as a criteria.

This is a great example of how some naming has gone. Everett Wilcox had a plant labeled Phrag. schlimii. Dick Clements got a piece from him. Dick got it awarded as Phrag. schlimii 'Birchwood'. Later, Everett Wilcox got the same plant awarded as Phrag. schlimii 'Wilcox'. When Phrag. schlimii was rediscovered in Colombia, Dick realized that the plant he had was a hybrid - he found an old picture of Phrag. Cardinale and recognized that this was what Phrag. schlimii 'Birchwood' ('Wilcox') was. He showed the plant as Phrag. Cardinale 'Birchwood' and got it awarded. So the same plant was awarded 3 times under different names. (This comes from my conversations with Dick Clements in the early '90s).
I put cultivar names on good plants. If they get divided up, the name stays with the plant (hopefully). It's a good thing, if for no other reason than consistency and lack of confusion. Of course, there are common decency and respect for the person the plant came from to consider, but I digress...

 

[Ross]

Welcome, Duane and thank you for the excellent information. It's interesting to learn more about the history of Paph and Phrag breeding. It's also ironic that the purchase of a division in Chicago leads me back to Minnesota to another enthusiast, Dick Sonnen.

 

[John M]

This is a great example of how some naming has gone. Everett Wilcox had a plant labeled Phrag. schlimii. Dick Clements got a piece from him. Dick got it awarded as Phrag. schlimii 'Birchwood'. Later, Everett Wilcox got the same plant awarded as Phrag. schlimii 'Wilcox'. When Phrag. schlimii was rediscovered in Colombia, Dick realized that the plant he had was a hybrid - he found an old picture of Phrag. Cardinale and recognized that this was what Phrag. schlimii 'Birchwood' ('Wilcox') was. He showed the plant as Phrag. Cardinale 'Birchwood' and got it awarded. So the same plant was awarded 3 times under different names. (This comes from my conversations with Dick Clements in the early '90s).
I put cultivar names on good plants. If they get divided up, the name stays with the plant (hopefully). It's a good thing, if for no other reason than consistency and lack of confusion. Of course, there are common decency and respect for the person the plant came from to consider, but I digress...

Phrag. schlimii 'Wilcox' was also renamed and exhibited as Cardinale 'Kilworth'.....and it won an AM/AOS. So, there are at least 4 different names associated with this one clone.