Phragmipedium kovachii as a houseplant

[LostInPeru]

After reading about the discovery of Phragmipedium kovachii on here and becoming fascinated by the intrigue and allure of this orchid I am thinking of purchasing one and was just wondering if I could run by you what I think it needs care wise?

So far I think I need to do the following.

Use expanded clay pellets/balls such as hydroton as the media. Provides good drainage and prevents root rot while maintaing moisture and providing a acid free ph neutral environment. Soak the expanded clay in distilled water for a week before use to get rid of any harsh chemicals used in the manufacturing process.

Only water with distilled water two to three times per week. Never let dry out.

Fertilize with half stength orchid fertilizer three times a week. Every three months use dolomite and epsom salts. Unsure quantities. I found liquid dolomite at my local Bunnings plantstore, would this be ok to use?

Give low levels of bright diffused light while plant is small and young, increasing to brighter full sun when plant is larger.

I live in the city of Brisbane in Australia, where it gets pretty hot in summer but night temperatures I think should be alright temperature wise. In summer the temperatures rise to 35 degrees celsius (95 degrees fahrenheight). We seem to get about a 10 degree celsius(50 degree fahrenheight) temperature difference between summer day time and night time temperatures. Is this ok? I read on here that they can tolerate warmer temperatures and as Lima is at sea level they survive their ok where they are grown slightly warmer.

Here are my maximum and minimum for summer. http://www.weatherzone.com.au/qld/brisbane/brisbane

Keep in a plastic pot and sit that inside a ceramic pot to keep the root system cool at all times.

I wanted to purchase a plant of wild origin( responsibly sourced the proper way of course) and saw a lot of very beautiful specimens that were of wild origin on this forum and then went looking for them in Australia.

I found a supplier here in Australia who sells flasks of PK, one plant per flask, and I was thinking of purchasing one plant from them. The type they sell is Phragmipedium kovachii 'Tupac Amaru' x 'Goliath'. I remember after seeing pictures of each of those individuals on here before discovering this 'cross' that they were two of the most beautiful and the thought of them being together in one plant is almost too much lol and I was lucky as this supplier only stocks this one particular type of PK and is the only place that I have found stocks PK in Australia. They assure me they are all responsibly sourced the correct way through the proper channels with all the legitimate paperwork and for me that is very important so I think I have really been lucky to come across this very responsible and ethical seller.

What are your thoughts? Am I on the right track. Any help would be great. I still have not purchased anything and am still undecided if I will. Thanks.

 

[Rick]

The nutrient regime you are suggesting is very high. Especially since you are not specifying the composition of your choice of fertilizer.

Without targeting a specific composition, I wouldn't offer fertilizer at more than 1/10th strength multiple times per week. Or the 1/2 strength once every 2 months.

I have leaf tissue composition data from Alfredo Manrique and there is nothing significantly different comparing Phrag kovachii to epiphytic Epidendrum species. (I also have a couple of Pk's, and one grown from a small seedling).

They will grow very quickly with nutrient applications a tiny fraction of what you suggest, and may be burned out very quickly at higher rates without very heavy watering/flushing between nutrient applications.

 

[Justin]

kovachii is supposed to be somewhat difficult to grow from flask. one plant per flask gives you bad odds...

i agree with Rick the feed rate you suggest sounds too strong and too frequent, but others here are more experienced with this species.

 

[paphioboy]

I do not think PK will survive the hot summers in Australia. Even in a tropical country where I live where maximum temperatures 'only' reach 35 degrees Celsius, not many intermediate growers can flower here. My friend who grows many slippers says that PK requires a constant temperature of around 20-22 degrees C.

 

[Rick]

My friend who grows many slippers says that PK requires a constant temperature of around 20-22 degrees C.

Mine spend plenty of time around 29C in the summer.

As long as airflow and humidity is up, and water is not restricted, I don't think you need to keep them that cool.

 

[LostInPeru]

I was uncertain about how often I should fertilize or how much. I had previously read somewhere by only giving them distilled water you leached nutrients out of the plant. Someone on another orchid forum also told me not to fertilize too much. Thanks for giving me the specific details.

So it seems PK can pretty much grow in nutrient deficient soils? In regards to the liquid dolomite and epsom salts in what quantities and frequency should I use those would you say after owning them?

It's always humid here in summer so hopefully I may have success. Am still on the fence about purchasing.

Have a copy of "The Scent of Scandal" on the way so will enjoy reading that before making a decision.

 

[Rick]

So it seems PK can pretty much grow in nutrient deficient soils?

Most orchids grow in nutrient deficient environments. Also the high rainfall in most orchid habitats drastically dilutes the mineral environment around the roots.

What is the water quality of your regular drinking supply? Unless you live on rain distilled water, that's probably more than enough of Ca an Mg for your orchids. Just need a pinch of N and P after that.

 

[Stone]

Hi LIP,
You will have no trouble with Brisbane temps. Its one of the best areas for orchid growing.
Who is selling the seedlings??

 

[NYEric]

Welcome to the forum. First of all, there are no "responsible sourced" plants of wild origin, IRENA only gave permits for 5 plants each to the 3 nurseries that got permits, so you can be sure any plants for sale are not those. Anyway, Phrag kovachii can be very difficult to grow from seedlings. Whether or not the experience is a good one could well depend on the cost of the one in the flask. If you read 'Scent of a Scandal' you know that they are not warm growing plants. if you can keep it cool in the Summer then that is half the battle.
Here's a link.
http://www.orchid-care-tips.com/phragmipedium-kovachii.html
Plus, there are videos how Orchids Limited, one of the Big 4 sources for Pk in the USA, grows theirs.

 

[LostInPeru]

Most orchids grow in nutrient deficient environments. Also the high rainfall in most orchid habitats drastically dilutes the mineral environment around the roots.

What is the water quality of your regular drinking supply? Unless you live on rain distilled water, that's probably more than enough of Ca an Mg for your orchids. Just need a pinch of N and P after that.

Never thought of this. Thanks for the information, it's always helpful to know lots of detail about them. I'm unsure of the water quality here. Perhaps I am better to just water them with tapwater and flush it out once a month with distilled.

Hi LIP,
You will have no trouble with Brisbane temps. Its one of the best areas for orchid growing.
Who is selling the seedlings??

This is reassuring to know. I found the supplier from doing a quick google search I guess it can only be good for their business if I mention them. The seller doesn't grow any PK, they only sell flasks. I already inquired about potted plants but they don't have any.

Here is their link. Edit.

Welcome to the forum. First of all, there are no "responsible sourced" plants of wild origin, IRENA only gave permits for 5 plants each to the 3 nurseries that got permits, so you can be sure any plants for sale are not those. Anyway, Phrag kovachii can be very difficult to grow from seedlings. Whether or not the experience is a good one could well depend on the cost of the one in the flask. If you read 'Scent of a Scandal' you know that they are not warm growing plants. if you can keep it cool in the Summer then that is half the battle.
Here's a link.
http://www.orchid-care-tips.com/phragmipedium-kovachii.html
Plus, there are videos how Orchids Limited, one of the Big 4 sources for Pk in the USA, grows theirs.

Nice to be here. I like how their is a forum dedicated to slippers. Thanks for the link always fun to read new material on them.

The cost of the flask is reasonable compared to the price of my old hobby with those Aibo robots lol. The seller has outstanding credentials and I am confident I have struck lucky coming accross them. Their is no way I would ever attempt importing plants myself from overseas- too expensive and complicated. In regards to the permits are you saying all other plants are illegal? I just assumed these are material purchased legally, and as the seller then owns those plants can choose to cultivate and sell them.Please advise.

 

[Justin]

There's some extensive info on the Piping Rock site:

http://www.pipingrockorchids.com/assets/Glenn-Decker-Nov-2007-Article-AOS-PK.pdf

In ths article Glen advises using:

6 parts seedling or fine grade bark, 1 part horticultural charcoal, 1 part sponge rock or large perlite and ½ part of calcium chips or cracked oyster shells.

 

[Stone]

This is reassuring to know. I found the supplier from doing a quick google search I guess it can only be good for their business if I mention them. The seller doesn't grow any PK, they only sell flasks. I already inquired about potted plants but they don't have any.

Here is their link. http://www.westernorchids.com.au/news.html

Thanks. I've bought from Kevin before. He's a good bloke and the plants are usually good to high quality.

 

[NYEric]

The cost of the flask is reasonable compared to the price of my old hobby with those Aibo robots lol.
Their is no way I would ever attempt importing plants myself from overseas- too expensive and complicated. In regards to the permits are you saying all other plants are illegal? I just assumed these are material purchased legally, and as the seller then owns those plants can choose to cultivate and sell them.Please advise.

What advice are you looking for? As also noted in the book, wild plants were being removed (and shipped overseas) prior to Mr. Kovach's adventure; and the plants were not legally named, therefore legally exported, until after that. There are plenty of plants from flask legally exported and some of them are blooming size. But remember, even some of the first flasks turned out not to be true kovachii. Your flasked plant could be legal if it has legal paperwork. My experience is that flasked and seedling kovachii are very difficult to grow and personally i would not try it again unless the seedlings have a 18cm+ leafspan.

 

[LostInPeru]

Can't wait to read the book. I guess if it wasn't for Kovach making international headlines the black market trade probably would have continued and caused a lot of damage to the wild population and hobby insudustry with unidentifiable plants flooding the market before anyone got around to describing the orchid the proper way through the lengthy official channels. The supplier I am purchasing from has a picture on their website and it looks like a kovachii to me.

Would you say the liquid dolomite would be any good?

It's so hard to source the right stuff here at the local Bunnings(hardware/garden retailer).

I managed to find a Australian supplier on ebay selling the top grade hydroton expanded clay from europe, amazingly they sell it in small quantities, with the smallest being 500g which is perfect if you are only growing one plant. I also found powdered dolomite and the special clear orchid pots 150mm with high stacking feet to prevent root rot. It looks like I could acquire an orchid from the supplier and the rest from ebay including the hydroton, the pots, powdered dolomite from online all for under AUD$150.00. That cost includes the orchid fertilizer and epsom salts I can purchase locally. I am unsure what type of fertilizer to purchase.

I'm worried the expanded clay may not be alkaline enough.

Thanks for your help and for sharing your detailed knowledge as it's invaluable to a newbie like me and much appreciated.

 

[Justin]

i really need to get around to reading that book.

Just FYI, Michael Kovach passed away in 2012.

 

[LostInPeru]

I wasn't aware of this. That is really shocking and upsetting news.

Can't believe Michael Kovach is dead, very sad.

Thanks Justin for letting me know.

 

[Stone]

I'm worried the expanded clay may not be alkaline enough.

Be carefull with the use of dolomite and lime etc. Kovachii does not need extra Ca than any other orchid. Also alkaline pot conditions will quickly put a stop to growth. My Kovachii wet backwards when I added dolomite (obviously way too much!...my water is neutral) Better to start with an acid mix (not too much so) and add a little dolomite if the pH drops below 6. It has been found that most plants from alkaline habitats do equally well at pH 5.5 and 7 as long as Ca is AT LEAST double the Mg. The pH of Kovachii habitat is 7 or below (from memory) so neutral to sightly acid. The same with most ''limestone'' paphs.
Your water probably has enough Calcium bicarbonate in it as is. If you use acidifying fertilizers like ammonium or Urea, you may need to add a very small amount of lime every 6 months or so.
If you use a hydroponic type fert with mainly Calcium nitrate, your pH will remain as is or increase very slightly over time.
PH is not so important when nutrients are constantly available as it is when they are deficient.

 

[LostInPeru]

Be carefull with the use of dolomite and lime etc. Kovachii does not need extra Ca than any other orchid. Also alkaline pot conditions will quickly put a stop to growth. My Kovachii wet backwards when I added dolomite (obviously way too much!...my water is neutral) Better to start with an acid mix (not too much so) and add a little dolomite if the pH drops below 6. It has been found that most plants from alkaline habitats do equally well at pH 5.5 and 7 as long as Ca is AT LEAST double the Mg. The pH of Kovachii habitat is 7 or below (from memory) so neutral to sightly acid. The same with most ''limestone'' paphs.
Your water probably has enough Calcium bicarbonate in it as is. If you use acidifying fertilizers like ammonium or Urea, you may need to add a very small amount of lime every 6 months or so.
If you use a hydroponic type fert with mainly Calcium nitrate, your pH will remain as is or increase very slightly over time.
PH is not so important when nutrients are constantly available as it is when they are deficient.

Thankyou for this! So I might just use my normal tap water and flush the plant once every month with distilled water. I found out about kovachii in 2011 and was amazed it still hadn't been 10 years since it's discovery.I did read extensively on the care of this plant and found out all this stuff and then forgot about it. I think my reason for deciding to take one on was because from what I read they seemed pretty easy to grow and low maintenance in the expanded clay.

I'm thinking I may purchase more than one plant simply becuase the time they take to flower, which is about 5 years, and if I am going to invest a lot of time and effort into the care I may aswell have a few nice mature plants at the end of it instead of just one. Plus last time I inquired the supplier didn't have any so I am probably wise to purchase a few while their in stock.

Regarding hydroponic type ferts with mainly Calicium nitrate, can you recommend any? They seem like the perfect fert to use on kovachii. Everything I have found at Bunnings has urea which worried me. Sorry for all the questions, I don't normally ask so many questions but everyone here is so freindly and helpful it's hard not to. Hope I don't come across as too annoying lol.

 

[Justin]

have you raised Phrags from flask before? kovachii is known to be difficult to establish from flask.

I think you mentioned these are single plant flasks. To get a viable plant you will want probably about 20 of them as there is a very high probability many will die after deflasking.

 

[SlipperFan]

I find this the best source for where kovachii grows and how to grow it:
http://www.phragmipediumkovachii.com/