Phragmipedium Robert-Jan Quené ??

[Drorchid]

I unfortunately won't be able to post many pictures of Phragmipediums or Paphiopedilums any more, as I only have one Phragmipedium growing in my collection at the moment, but below are pictures of my Phragmipedium Robert-Jan Quené, that I received as a gift when I left Orchids Limited. 3 years after I got it (it was still a seedling when I got it), it finally bloomed, and it has been blooming every year since, often twice per year! It is an amazing and vigorous plant, and now that it has matured, the flower spike will even branch, with having up to 4 flowers open at the same time, and can have 12 or more flowers total on a spike!

Now, here is the conundrum. It is labeled as a Phragmipedium Robert-Jan Quené, but the flower doesn't look like any of the other Phragmipedium Robert-Jan Quené's that I have seen prior, and I should know, as I am the one that bred it.

I am almost 100% sure it also wasn't mislabeled and was in the same batch of seedlings as the other Phrag. RJQ's.

So what is different? THe flower is more the size of a Phrag. Fritz Schomburg, and it has more the color of a Fritz Schomburg. Also the plant seems larger.

My hypothesis is that when I made the cross (which is Phragmipedium Fritz Schomburg 'Peach Parfait' x besseae 'Rob's Choice' AM/AOS), that it also may have gotten some of the Fritz Schomburg pollen on the stigma, so besides getting crossed with besseae, also self-pollinated.

Any thoughts?

Pictures are below.

 

[Drorchid]

This is what one of the first RJQ's looked like. The flowers were a lot smaller (but significantly larger than a regular besseae), and more orange red in color; I described it as a besseae on steroids:

 

[Happypaphy7]

Very nice!!
And the plant looks very clean and healthy. I like that a lot.

 

[monocotman]

Whatever it is, it’s a wonderful clone!
I agree that it’s much more likely to be a FS than RJQ. Interesting to see what is produced when you self an FS.
David

 

[Linus_Cello]

Have you tried growing it cooler? Will more red come out if grown in cooler temperatures? Or is temperature irrelevant for RJQ?

 

[Royal Rea]

Welcome back Robert, I enjoyed your many articles from days gone bye. Yes it does appear to be very much like a Fritzy, and quite possible it could be the result of a selfing when you made it. When compared with the RJQ's, the colour is like the Fritzy without the double besseae influence. It could very well do as your presume, FS pollen selfing at the same time you made the cross with besseae.

 

[KateL]

Hi again Robert,
The Phrag. Robert-Jan Quenés I have been flowering came from a flask from Peruflora - make of that what you will - and the colors have all been various depths of pink, not the red-orange besseae color. So, more like the one you’re showing. Mine are not quite as mature as yours, so maybe I’ll see some branching in the future, but not yet. (Not to mention, you are probably a better grower than me.) If Linus’s hypothesis about temperature affecting their color plays out, that might influence my pink RJQs. Mine probably never get the lows of a mainland greenhouse, even though it gets a little cooler where I live than at sea level. Kate
P.S. At the risk of exposing my ignorance: My recollection is that Rob’s Choice is a 4N (and Peach Parfait is a 2N), which might explain the strong expression of besseae color in the original batch (lots of besseae chromosomes). But is it possible that not all gametes got that full double dose of besseae? That would be consistent with the deep pink color expression in my batch from another source. I don’t think I have parental cultivar names, but it would not be surprising if Peruflora used a 2N besseae.
P.P.S. I have a lake cottage in northern Wisconsin. I am wondering if there might be a chance of me establishing cyps there, without constant attention. Might be better as a post-retirement project . . . Someday.

 

[terryros]

Dear Robert, why don’t you fire up your chromosome counting skill! I think the FS in the cross was diploid with ‘Rob’s Choice’ a tetraploid. There should be an obvious difference in chromosome count between a FS selfing and the RJQ triploid!

I know that you had expertise in chromosome analysis at OL but maybe don’t have an appropriate microscope to do it?

 

[Drorchid]

Hi again Robert,
The Phrag. Robert-Jan Quenés I have been flowering came from a flask from Peruflora - make of that what you will - and the colors have all been various depths of pink, not the red-orange besseae color. So, more like the one you’re showing. Mine are not quite as mature as yours, so maybe I’ll see some branching in the future, but not yet. (Not to mention, you are probably a better grower than me.) If Linus’s hypothesis about temperature affecting their color plays out, that might influence my pink RJQs. Mine probably never get the lows of a mainland greenhouse, even though it gets a little cooler where I live than at sea level. Kate
P.S. At the risk of exposing my ignorance: My recollection is that Rob’s Choice is a 4N (and Peach Parfait is a 2N), which might explain the strong expression of besseae color in the original batch (lots of besseae chromosomes). But is it possible that not all gametes got that full double dose of besseae? That would be consistent with the deep pink color expression in my batch from another source. I don’t think I have parental cultivar names, but it would not be surprising if Peruflora used a 2N besseae.
P.P.S. I have a lake cottage in northern Wisconsin. I am wondering if there might be a chance of me establishing cyps there, without constant attention. Might be better as a post-retirement project . . . Someday.

Hi Kate,

Correct, the besseae that I used (Rob's Choice), is a tetraploid, and Peach Parfait is a diploid. I am leaning more towards that the FS that I used as a pod parent, also got self-pollinated, so I had two different crosses within my seedlings.

My flowers have been lighter in color (more pink) when it has been warmer.

Regarding growing Cyps, by your lake cottage. Yes, you can grow them there (as they are native to that area), as long as they get adequate moisture. May I ask to which town is it close too? I live in Superior, Wisconsin myself.

 

[KateL]

Hi Kate,

Correct, the besseae that I used (Rob's Choice), is a tetraploid, and Peach Parfait is a diploid. I am leaning more towards that the FS that I used as a pod parent, also got self-pollinated, so I had two different crosses within my seedlings.

My flowers have been lighter in color (more pink) when it has been warmer.

Regarding growing Cyps, by your lake cottage. Yes, you can grow them there (as they are native to that area), as long as they get adequate moisture. May I ask to which town is it close too? I live in Superior, Wisconsin myself.

Our cottage is on Pelican Lake - nearest town is Rhinelander. I am heading up there in about a week to visit my mom, who lives on the other side of the lake.
I will have to study up on Cyp culture. I was thinking about starting some at my mom’s house, but she has a hellacious deer population in her yard, lol. She would keep them moist, right up until the deer munched them to the nubs.

 

[NYEric]

Yay besseae hybrids! Definitely looks like a Fritz Schomburg. The lovely ploidy induced shape on the Robert Jan-Quenes is outstanding. Thanks for sharing.