sanderianum cross

[NYEric]

I'll still take it.

 

[gonewild]

I placed the original photo to show growers something of a cross that is unusual. I have enjoyed reading the posts. I still say I'm happy I don't own the plant.

Personally I don't much like that plant either but it is interesting to hear peoples ideas and opinions about these controversial lines of breeding

I tend to agree with Leo on most points but also a little with Lance that it might breed something better down the track BUT I still ask Why Bother?? Wouldn't it be most cost effective and more efficient to line breed to improve what we have now.

Why not do both? Commercial breeders and growers need as much variety as possible. Cost effective for a breeder is creating something that your customers want and your competitors don't have.

Bellatulums are being ling bred which is making them easier to grow and flower and the same with the Multi florals. I think for time, space and economics plus the added fact that you eliminate the flowering & growing problems and the questionable flower shape at the end.

Crossing the betatulum with a sanderianum is an exploration of a new frontier and can't really be compared with line breeding in either species.

Too many nurseries are producing seedlings like the pictured cross and Paph lovers are paying good money for little if any results.

But nobody forces Paph lovers to buy a screwball hybrid. If a Paph grower wants a sure thing they have thousands of other choices. If that flower had come out with the same exact form but was pure white with big dark polka dots this conversation would be praising the ingenuity of the breeder.

I think its time for breeders to get back to reality and start looking at what people can grow and not the breeder wants them to grow.
Roy.

I think breeders are looking at what people want to grow as well as what they can grow. Some growers thrive on the challange of growing and not necissarily on the quality of the flower. Breeders will always strive to create something new and different. There are not many options left for "different" in the orchid hobby so in the case of this hybrid breeders are starting at the bottom. In a few decades the hybrids will be perfected but in the meantime there will be lots of ugly ducklings.

 

[Roy]

Lance, experimentation is a good thing and growers, new and old, I agree are looking for something new. The problem is, as expresses in this and other forums, growers see only the ones that actually grow and flower so they buy the seedlings. They may not be aware of the difficulties that come with the cross, like P. Rolfei, in flowering. New fruit, vegetables, roses etc are tried and proven by the hybridist BEFORE they are released to the public, not so with orchids. Taiwan Paph nurseries seem to have it down to a fine art in showing great pics of the experimental crosses ( the good ones or only ones to flower ), remaking the crosses and selling off to the unsuspecting. They seem to be 4 to 6 years ahead in flowering crosses that are only just making our market. What better advertising to sell plants.

 

[Hien]

But nobody forces Paph lovers to buy a screwball hybrid. If a Paph grower wants a sure thing they have thousands of other choices. If that flower had come out with the same exact form but was pure white with big dark polka dots this conversation would be praising the ingenuity of the breeder.

.

This is only one example plant, maybe there is a sibling of this plant with polka dots on white background.
By the ways , I still have the unanswered question:
If you selfing an abnormal flower (I have a strange square phal flower on a normal flower inflorescence), will the result plants flower square blooms or will they all carry normal flower?

 

[gonewild]

Lance, experimentation is a good thing and growers, new and old, I agree are looking for something new. The problem is, as expresses in this and other forums, growers see only the ones that actually grow and flower so they buy the seedlings. They may not be aware of the difficulties that come with the cross, like P. Rolfei, in flowering. New fruit, vegetables, roses etc are tried and proven by the hybridist BEFORE they are released to the public, not so with orchids. Taiwan Paph nurseries seem to have it down to a fine art in showing great pics of the experimental crosses ( the good ones or only ones to flower ), remaking the crosses and selling off to the unsuspecting. They seem to be 4 to 6 years ahead in flowering crosses that are only just making our market. What better advertising to sell plants.

I bet there is one thing orchid growers do not want. They do not want the breeders growing out a hybrid and not selling any of the seedlings until the cross is pr oven. Paph and all orchid growers all want to be one of the first to flower a new hybrid. This separates orchid growing from new fruit, vegetables, roses etc where a single plant is selected and then "cloned" for the public.

When you define the problem with the Taiwanese Paph breeders, I agree with you completely. I guess I was referring to honorable breeders. The practice you describe is not the type of breeding and growing I was thinking of. What you describe is pure deception and fraud, they are only using Paph breeding as a tool to steal. Not every culture has the same business standards as a driving force.

 

[gonewild]

By the ways , I still have the unanswered question:
If you selfing an abnormal flower (I have a strange square phal flower on a normal flower inflorescence), will the result plants flower square blooms or will they all carry normal flower?

If it is just one square flower on a spike of normal flowers it is probably a deformed flower. The genetics would likely match the round flowers. But unless you want to breed plants that produce deformed flowers you should not use the plant for breeding.

 

[Hien]

Thanks for the answer, Lance,

If I have time I would post the picture later & you see what I mean.

 

[Roy]

OK Lance now we are on the same page. Yes, we all want to flower that new, exceptional hybrid. I think that probably through forums like this & others plus Orchid discussion in general, the problems that could occur with the 'experimental' hybrid can be explained carefully so that we all are made aware of the 'potential' faults or 'benefits' a crossing may hold.
In fact, thats not a bad idea for a forum Discussion Board.?????